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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
IrJosy
Club 1621
Goonswarm Federation
69
   |
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:31:00 -
[181] - Quote
CCP Legion wrote:Once this is out we will be keeping an eye on how players use it, both via feedback here and metrics that we gather. We can then rebalance it accordingly to make sure it is not completely unbalanced or if it is used as a pure griefing tool for example. There are a lot of values which we can tweak relatively easily as required.
I'm not a game development expert or anything ,but why not just balance it BEFORE you implement it into the game? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5258
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:32:00 -
[182] - Quote
CCP Tuxford wrote:Sparkus Volundar wrote:CCP Tuxford wrote:Two step wrote:Sounds pretty neat. One issue: Using the API, people can tell when stuff is missing from silos. Has this been thought about? Yes we did. We do track how much is siphoned from what and where it would end up and the API then reports those numbers. It's a bit evil abusing the API in this way but I think it's for the good of the feature. Sorry for probably unneeded question about potential bug: This reporting will account for the 20% loss? Just asking because "what is syphoned" sounds potentially different to what was mined/made. Thanks, Sparks Yes it will account for the lossed items as well. The idea is that you wouldn't notice that you were being siphoned from the API.
When the siphon is dead does our api go back to being useful, or is there going to be ghost minerals in there forever? |
Vatek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
85
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:32:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP Legion wrote:Once this is out we will be keeping an eye on how players use it, both via feedback here and metrics that we gather. We can then rebalance it accordingly to make sure it is not completely unbalanced or if it is used as a pure griefing tool for example. There are a lot of values which we can tweak relatively easily as required.
Release broken, fix later. Cool. |
IrJosy
Club 1621
Goonswarm Federation
69
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:33:00 -
[184] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:CCP Legion wrote:Once this is out we will be keeping an eye on how players use it, both via feedback here and metrics that we gather. We can then rebalance it accordingly to make sure it is not completely unbalanced or if it is used as a pure griefing tool for example. There are a lot of values which we can tweak relatively easily as required. this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen. the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy.
It's the opposite actually.
Jabber leak:
(11:16:23 AM) aryth: this isn't going to crush us. it will crush everyone who doesn't rent
(11:16:31 AM) aryth: which means everyone will rent. which means everyone will donut up
(11:16:34 AM) aryth: which kills eve |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1355
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:33:00 -
[185] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:MeBiatch wrote:this one mod is the single greatest anti-blue donut mechanic i have ever seen.
the fact that the large pos alliances are extreamly upset that they will actually have to monitor thier isk faucet makes me very happy. Sadly, we're also the ones that will benefit the most on the 'free isk' faucet of the increased cost of goo. And the reactions that will go up in price too. You'll just get higher t2 costs down the road. So sure, if you want to pay more for t2 stuff with no benefit, it's awesome for you.
how so?
i intend of setting up shop in a region near you... i will directly bene from increased moon min value because i will be selling your moon mins. 
face it... the days of owning 9 regions are comming to an end... no longer will greater number eq. greater isk income without activly defending all your space.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5258
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:33:00 -
[186] - Quote
CCP Legion wrote:Once this is out we will be keeping an eye on how players use it, both via feedback here and metrics that we gather. We can then rebalance it accordingly to make sure it is not completely unbalanced or if it is used as a pure griefing tool for example. There are a lot of values which we can tweak relatively easily as required.
You don't need metrics to know how this will be used. It's 10m. It's 20m3. And "we'll balance this SOON(TM)" is not really a great response given that soon never comes. |
Rekkr Nordgard
The Ardency of Faith
Filthy Bastards
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:34:00 -
[187] - Quote
Klyith wrote:Hey CCP, you should introduce more things that will wreck the game and make it easier for GSF put the rest of nullsec over a barrel. Goon tears! Goons tears! They cry when the game gets more boring! twisted twisted twisted
ahhhhh how sad, show me where CCP touched your passive ISK printing machines. |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger
Nulli Secunda
1104
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:34:00 -
[188] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Alright:
this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.
instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:
i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.
hmmm in a MMO that is live 23/7 heaven forbit you might have to make friends with those darn americans and Australians...
We did, not that much of a problem. but our friends are going to hate having to mini structure grind for us because they can't man our POS guns without having alts in our corp.
We are recruiting german-speaking PVP players, contact me :)
Banner was used for this Post |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:36:00 -
[189] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:
It's the opposite actually.
Jabber leak:
(11:16:23 AM) aryth: this isn't going to crush us. it will crush everyone who doesn't rent
(11:16:31 AM) aryth: which means everyone will rent. which means everyone will donut up
(11:16:34 AM) aryth: which kills eve
This mechanic is the single greatest pro-blue donut mechanic.
not sure why this will increase renters?
will you give a discount to renters who activly monitor your poses in a constilation?
like defend out poses from shyphon and you get to rent for 50% discount?
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
329
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:36:00 -
[190] - Quote
I Love Boobies wrote:Funny how certain entities are upset they will have to watch their POS, where they will actually have to worry about their profits now. I for one think it's a pleasant idea. Will be fun to deploy them just to mess with people. Cloaky ships, small m3... nice. Now it's the small corps chance to grief the larger entities in game. 
This says everything I was going to.
Want Dust514 district ownership to matter? Want to nuke someone's PI from orbit? Read here:
http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2013/09/dust514-and-future-of-planetary.html |
Shonion
FREE GATES
31
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:37:00 -
[191] - Quote
I start feeling that ccp hates normal people, whose has family, work, school, life....  |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:37:00 -
[192] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Gilbaron wrote:Alright:
this is a MASSIVE pain in the arse for corporations that do not span multiple timezones. everyone who is in a non-english speaking corporation has some serious organisation to do to get towers watched. Not cool. This is manageable for us (100% german corp) since we also speak english and can easily coordinate with other english speaking groups. The russians that often don't really speak english have a problem. a big one.
instead of introducing some interesting timer mechanic that could actually lead to some fights you made something that is going to be a massive pain in the arse for people in leadership positions. typical :CCP:
i was excited for this, mainly because i really hoped that it could lead to some interesting small scale pvp actions. but with the current implementation there is absolutely NO reason to interact with these things with anything that is not a T2 industrial with a covert ops cloak or a POS gun.
hmmm in a MMO that is live 23/7 heaven forbit you might have to make friends with those darn americans and Australians... We did, not that much of a problem. but our friends are going to hate having to mini structure grind for us because they can't man our POS guns without having alts in our corp.
well if its 50k ehp that what like 5 nadoes roaming around? its not a problem if you actively monitor all your space... its just entities like you and goons happen to own huge swaths of space... and there is where the annoyance comes from.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
IrJosy
Club 1621
Goonswarm Federation
70
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:38:00 -
[193] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:
It's the opposite actually.
Jabber leak:
(11:16:23 AM) aryth: this isn't going to crush us. it will crush everyone who doesn't rent
(11:16:31 AM) aryth: which means everyone will rent. which means everyone will donut up
(11:16:34 AM) aryth: which kills eve
This mechanic is the single greatest pro-blue donut mechanic.
not sure why this will increase renters? will you give a discount to renters who activly monitor your poses in a constilation? like defend out poses from shyphon and you get to rent for 50% discount?
If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
290
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:38:00 -
[194] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Quote:GÇóSiphon units also have a waste factor (assumed to be lost in transit). This wastes (destroys) a portion of what is stolen. The waste factor for the Small Mobile Siphon Unit is 20%.
any chance we can get a skill for siphon unit efficiancy... what it would do is reduce the waste factor by 3% per level. so that way at level V the waste would only be 5%.
That wouldn't really make sense for a deployable you might be half the universe away from after dropping. |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:39:00 -
[195] - Quote
Burseg Sardaukar wrote:I Love Boobies wrote:Funny how certain entities are upset they will have to watch their POS, where they will actually have to worry about their profits now. I for one think it's a pleasant idea. Will be fun to deploy them just to mess with people. Cloaky ships, small m3... nice. Now it's the small corps chance to grief the larger entities in game. This says everything I was going to.
10 bucks says that now afk cloakers are going to put a real dent in cfc income it will be nerfed in less then 6 months.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
June Ting
Valkyries of Night
Of Sound Mind
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:39:00 -
[196] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:When the siphon is dead does our api go back to being useful, or is there going to be ghost minerals in there forever?
How about just removing the record of what moon minerals are in the POS silos entirely from the API to avoid this problem? It's far less complicated and forces people to actually pay attention to their POSes instead of running 100+ of them and having an API tool ping them to tell them what to fuel/plat next.
I fight for the freedom of my people. |
Vatek
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:40:00 -
[197] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:
It's the opposite actually.
Jabber leak:
(11:16:23 AM) aryth: this isn't going to crush us. it will crush everyone who doesn't rent
(11:16:31 AM) aryth: which means everyone will rent. which means everyone will donut up
(11:16:34 AM) aryth: which kills eve
This mechanic is the single greatest pro-blue donut mechanic.
not sure why this will increase renters? will you give a discount to renters who activly monitor your poses in a constilation? like defend out poses from shyphon and you get to rent for 50% discount?
Renters will pay us x amount of isk per month to mine specific R64 moons in their rented space, they are then responsible for dealing with siphons on their towers. If they end up losing money because their moons are being siphoned heavily, that's their problem.
June Ting wrote:Weaselior wrote:When the siphon is dead does our api go back to being useful, or is there going to be ghost minerals in there forever? How about just removing the record of what moon minerals are in the POS silos entirely from the API to avoid this problem? It's far less complicated and forces people to actually pay attention to their POSes instead of running 100+ of them and having an API tool ping them to tell them what to fuel/plat next.
Hell yeah let's make POS management even shittier! That won't cause null blocs to increasingly turn to renters for income at all! |
Darius Caliente
Sanguinis Ablutione
Angeli Mortis
32
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:40:00 -
[198] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:The Warfish wrote:Will destroyed Siphons result in a Structure Killmail, a la POS Modules?
If not, it should. Yes, Kill Reports will be generated including the information on what was dropped/destroyed.
Doesn't necessarily belong in this forum but any chance this means that Mobile Warp Disruptors are changing as well to now provide a killmail, since they are another form of deployable?
|
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:41:00 -
[199] - Quote
IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters!
well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing...
like 2006 all over again before jump frighters.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
452
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:43:00 -
[200] - Quote
This actually hurts small operations way worse.
1. Find 1 man reaction/moon mining corp.
2. Find out his schedule, go to sleep, when he wakes up.
3. Wait for him to sleep.
4. You now have a timer to drop, and rescoop when it's done.
Reality, this hurts the small guy way more on an individual level. Because it's without risk if you know the guy's schedule. And while he's sitting in pos, waiting for someone to drop a siphon, he's not really playing eve, is he? |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5260
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:43:00 -
[201] - Quote
June Ting wrote:Weaselior wrote:When the siphon is dead does our api go back to being useful, or is there going to be ghost minerals in there forever? How about just removing the record of what moon minerals are in the POS silos entirely from the API to avoid this problem? It's far less complicated and forces people to actually pay attention to their POSes instead of running 100+ of them and having an API tool ping them to tell them what to fuel/plat next.
That's a stupid idea that creates more busywork for no reason whatsoever. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
72
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:43:00 -
[202] - Quote
I feel like multiple siphons per moon is probably completely unnecessary, internally. If you're going to allow a lowly two siphons to completely burgle a moon miner's output, you could probably save some processing time and database rows by just bumping a single siphon up to 100% theft (and corresponding waste as appropriate.) As it stands currently, there's no reason to drop any fewer than two siphons on a moon, given their cost and ease of onlining. Then, only allow one siphon per chain and you get the exact same operating behavior.
This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
5260
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:44:00 -
[203] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters.
renters are way more passive than moons |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:44:00 -
[204] - Quote
Vatek wrote:
Renters will pay us x amount of isk per month to mine specific R64 moons in their rented space, they are then responsible for dealing with siphons on their towers. If they end up losing money because their moons are being siphoned heavily, that's their problem.
so you are saying that 0.0 will have to be populated to be profitable? and this is somehow a bad thing?
i think its great...
you guys can be like the mob providing protection against actual pos attacks for a montly fee.
its a win win for everyone involved...
space gets filled people make isk and i get to kill people ratting.
dont see the problem really.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
Esteban Dragonovic
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:44:00 -
[205] - Quote
Might I ask at the very least that these siphons require the deployer to hack into the POS first to begin pulling goo into it? If they fail the hack then the siphon would at least explode and provide some offset to the cheap cost of these deployables. |
June Ting
Valkyries of Night
Of Sound Mind
43
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:45:00 -
[206] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters.
I question whether this meaningfully improves target selection.
Said renters will just blap the siphons using POS guns, and since those alts won't actually be in PVP ships but will just be pos gunning in noobships directly from inside their forcefields...
This certainly improves the harassment potential of small gangs, for sure. But it doesn't directly increase the likelihood of small fleet combat since almost nobody will bring an actual fleet of pvp ships to contest an objective of that type.
I fight for the freedom of my people. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order
Fidelas Constans
1335
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:45:00 -
[207] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters.
No, it's a shift from income based on PvP to income based on grinding and wasting time. |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1360
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:45:00 -
[208] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters. renters are way more passive than moons
i have shot poses and shot renters...
renters are more active and provide good tears in local.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
1361
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:46:00 -
[209] - Quote
June Ting wrote:MeBiatch wrote:IrJosy wrote:If goons siphon all of your moon income. How do you pay for your alliance? With renters! well yes it seems this will shift the paragim from passive income to active... which i like... more targets is a good thing... like 2006 all over again before jump frighters. I question whether this meaningfully improves target selection. Said renters will just blap the siphons using POS guns, and since those alts won't actually be in PVP ships but will just be pos gunning in noobships directly from inside their forcefields... This certainly improves the harassment potential of small gangs, for sure. But it doesn't directly increase the likelihood of small fleet combat since almost nobody will bring an actual fleet of pvp ships to contest an objective of that type.
they should fix that... you should not be able to man a pos gun inside of the shield.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
Winter Expansion new ship request |
Razzishi
Trash Reclamation Experts
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 17:47:00 -
[210] - Quote
Just make sure every mining POS has a complex reactor running. It will make logistics even worse, but I think that's part of the point. Right now top end moons are so profitable that you don't need to worry about wasting CPU on potential reactions when mining them. I do have first-hand knowledge of POS and moon-mining management, and think it would be sorta ok if we're all forced to plan a full production line and do more hauling to avoid being syphoned.
Presumably the devices that can siphon advanced materials will be much more expensive and require fuel to operate. |
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