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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1955
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:34:00 -
[481] - Quote
Shkiki wrote:How exactly are you supposed to get near a pos at 50km? pos guns will instantly kill you... especially if you are in a hauler. No the siphons should jettison the cargo like PI does. Then leave it up to the player to either probe down the can or warp to bookmark.
As has been stated half a dozen times in the thread, POS guns have a randomized delay of several seconds before they even start to lock, and then a lock time low enough that it's a few more seconds before they lock you, and even once they do lock you, the warp disruption batteries take a couple minutes to lock anything small so you can just warp off anyway. So you warp in, bookmark the pos, warp out, come back at 30km or so, drop your siphon, and leave before it does anything to you at all.
e: Oh yeah and because POS gun damage is balanced for an era when Dreads had less EHP than some cruisers have now, they're not really a threat to like, anything. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3607
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:35:00 -
[482] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:Roime wrote:xttz wrote: What do you think our small group of guys who suicide billions of isk a day ganking hi-sec freighters will do with this feature?
Go to forums and cry oceans before it's even released? You should show some respect, that man knows more and has discovered more about eve mechanics than all of the posters combined in this thread.
That's awesome dude Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
420
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:35:00 -
[483] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:Roime wrote:xttz wrote: What do you think our small group of guys who suicide billions of isk a day ganking hi-sec freighters will do with this feature?
Go to forums and cry oceans before it's even released? You should show some respect, that man knows more and has discovered more about eve mechanics than all of the posters combined in this thread.
Nice "Leave Brittany Alone!" post there. |
Deathwalley
SOERI Tech
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:37:00 -
[484] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:gascanu wrote:Vladimir Norkoff wrote:gascanu wrote:this is the first tool in a long time CCP give to small/medium alliances in npc 0.0 or low sec that will help them fight the large coalitions, and put a better defence of "their space"; .... It's like you've never played EvE before. Any tool that a small group can use a large group will be able to use more effectively. That being said, these siphons will far less effective than the panic-stricken Goons would like to make them out to be. you faill to understand that atm the "small groups" have around 0(ZERO) R64 moons; given that, can you tell me how the "large groups" can use this tool to grief them? We can double all the T2 ship prices.
Okay, go on. But a lot of goons in this topic, many populist phrases like "We can double all the T2 ship prices", are telling that siphons can cause some problems for goons. |
SMT008
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
692
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:39:00 -
[485] - Quote
I guess I'll just spam the hell out of them and see what happens/how much money I'll get/how much tears I'll get.
Happy times for everyone but the one who gets his stuff stolen. |
Powers Sa
691
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:42:00 -
[486] - Quote
Unforgiven Storm wrote:Quote: The name of the player that deployed the siphon unit is visible in Show Info. Now this is something I don't like at all. Lets pretend I need to buy a new leviathan and decide that Mynnna will pay for it, but Mynnna refuses!!! but since I know where is 80 poses reaction farm is located I decided to go to his ATM machine and make a isk redraw from it, but my name is on the thing... ... In a more serious note and realist use case, I'm a spy in enemy alliance and move with no problem in their systems, how can I steal my enemy if I leave a finger print everywhere?
Do it with your alt and scout with your spy. lol |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1307
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:43:00 -
[487] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:I guess I'll just spam the hell out of them and see what happens/how much money I'll get/how much tears I'll get.
Happy times for everyone but the one who gets his stuff stolen.
Unless those people stockpile! Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:44:00 -
[488] - Quote
Deathwalley wrote:Okay, go on. But a lot of goons in this topic, many populist phrases like "We can double all the T2 ship prices", are telling that siphons can cause some problems for goons.
yes in the very very very long run... perhaps after two years.
but remember goons had a monoploy on high end minerals for a long long time... and they knew that thier tech would be nerfed so they more then likely bought up huge stockpiles of r64 that i would guess can last just alone for 1-2 years.
so yes in the long run this is bad for goons... but from thier stated plans... they will make enough money from this now to cover themselves for perhaps 2 more years on top of that... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:45:00 -
[489] - Quote
Courthouse wrote: Nice "Leave Brittany Alone!" post there.
If, in a game of three hundred thousand players, nobody else is doing what you're thinking of, that's probably because it is extremely dumb. Exception: Rule does not apply if you are Xttz
mynnna wrote: As has been stated half a dozen times in the thread, POS guns
But dey POS guns can shoot me! If dey shoot me I might die, good lord. I never been anywhere dat someone mi' shoot me before!
Save me, save me! Pray save me from dem POS guns Br'er Rabbit! |
Laendra
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:46:00 -
[490] - Quote
It gives me great pleasure to see how retardedly stupid that many of the posters on this topic are.
The big players in Goonswarm are pointing out obvious flaws in the design of this "feature". Everyone assumes that it will result in Goonswarm tears about lost income, boo hoo hoo.
What you retards fail to understand, is that if CCP continues to go down this path, with this terribly implemented feature, that we are going to use our vast infrastructure and playerbase to DECIMATE moon production everywhere in EVE....for everyone.
You all thought the Threadnaught was bad, lol, you have no ******* clue.
As for CCP. Really, the API is going to LIE now? What's the ******* point? Who the **** thought that was a good idea? Are you all ******* morons now? Is there anyone at CCP with a ******* brain anymore? |
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PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
390
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:51:00 -
[491] - Quote
Laendra wrote: that we are going to use our vast infrastructure and playerbase to DECIMATE moon production everywhere in EVE....for everyone. Excellent, can't wait to see it happen..... and partake a bit myself.
Content for everyone! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
17013
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:55:00 -
[492] - Quote
Roime wrote:Tippia wrote:CCP Tuxford wrote:Not. The API will lie about the content. Sorry thought that was clear. This is in every way a horrible idea. If you want there to be a window of non-detection, just delay the cache refresh, but to make the system designed to export data from in-game to out-of-game for the analysis through player tools not fulfil its purpose of providing in-game data, means you might as well not provide the data to begin with since you've just made it inherently useless. This is a bad solution. Come up with a new one. Only thing they need to change is the name of the data stream from "silo content" or whatever it currently is to "output". The siphon taps into the chain after the API data point. This changes nothing but may help people with OCD issues That just makes it even more meaningless. The API doesn't need to stream static data that is available in the database. If the (semi-live) data export system does not export (semi-live) data, it might as well be removed since it no longer serves any purpose.
Especially since I don't really see any adequately explained reason why the data should be incorrect to begin with. Ok, so they don't want players to be able to use the APi to detect siphoning. Why? What's the design goal here? What's the gameplay they want to create?
Is it to make people patrol their space? Then just remove the data stream entirely and make it mandatory. Is it to provide a window of opportunity? Then just expand the pre-existing window. Is it to alter the balance between entities? Then just remove the data stream entirely, since the same (not actual) rebalance will happen.
Either way, feeding the system bad data only makes the system pointless GÇö it does absolutely nothing else, but does it more inefficiently and stupidly than any of the alternative solutions. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Deathwalley
SOERI Tech
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:55:00 -
[493] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Deathwalley wrote:Okay, go on. But a lot of goons in this topic, many populist phrases like "We can double all the T2 ship prices", are telling that siphons can cause some problems for goons. yes in the very very very long run... perhaps after two years. but remember goons had a monoploy on high end minerals for a long long time... and they knew that thier tech would be nerfed so they more then likely bought up huge stockpiles of r64 that i would guess can last just alone for 1-2 years. so yes in the long run this is bad for goons... but from thier stated plans... they will make enough money from this now to cover themselves for perhaps 2 more years on top of that...
But why in this topic, over 70% of all comments are by goons? And all of them, is about how bad siphons are, and how they will crush all of us.
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Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
421
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:57:00 -
[494] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Laendra wrote: that we are going to use our vast infrastructure and playerbase to DECIMATE moon production everywhere in EVE....for everyone. Excellent, can't wait to see it happen..... and partake a bit myself. Content for everyone!
If your idea of a good game is rampant price manipulation, barriers for entry for new pilots being much larger and the richest, most entrenched nullsec entities getting richer, then go hog wild.
Personally I'd rather see bad ideas fixed before release, lower barriers for entry and some sort of existential threat to ourselves and some of the other nullsec old bloods.
The sort of binary logic that anything someone in Goonswarm doesn't like must be good is problematic, not the least of reasons why being that we also pay subscriptions or PLEX for this game and it's in our vested interest that it not be overly boring or troublesome to play. |
Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
421
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:58:00 -
[495] - Quote
Deathwalley wrote: But why in this topic, over 70% of all comments are by goons? And all of them, is about how bad siphons are, and how they will crush all of us.
For the uninitiated, rule #1 is never stop posting.
|
GeeShizzle MacCloud
367
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:02:00 -
[496] - Quote
so what i see is a module that has been designed from the ground up by someone who wants to break the will of many people who has to deal with terrible game mechanics to deal with POS's, moon mining, reactions and t2 production.
i would suggest which ever CCP Dev that is, contact your resident Eve economist guru Dr. Eyjo Gudmundsson, and ask him how such a module will affect Eve from an economic level. ill let him b*tch slap u back to where u belong.
The numbers decided upon im certain were dreamt up from the view of the aggressor, not taking into account how insanely OP they are. as unforgiven storm says, the compression ratio is insane, the siphoning amount is insane (especially considering this is meant to be the SMALL version) and the cost is insanely small for their power. The fact its undetectable from an API standpoint is also OP.
The whole point that i got from the original announcement about this is to be able to punish POS owners who DON'T take care of their POS's. |If you dont take care of it, chances are u dont have dedicated programs and spreadsheets working to alert you and to crunch all the calculations u need to stay sane running POS's. So the idea of masking the siphoning from the API is ridiculous imho.
if you're the aggressor using this mod, you're trying to capitalise on the response time of the owner(s)... right?? The actual POS owner(s) has to do something to respond to any API alert they receive right? Its like suddently some people believe POS owners run vast automated botting groups to protect their POS's.
People complaining about programmes made by people will insta alert possible siphoning have somehow thought that the response time is always going to be immediate. This is generally not the case, and where it is the case is most likely a POS thats used for other things than just mining/reactions. So its unlikely you'll generate anything from it anyway.
Alternatively look at it from an RP perspective...
A 10m3 module that costs 10 mil can within an hour breach the hardened shields of a structure costing between 6x and 26x its cost and extract items. Something that a full 250 man fleet dedicated to that action cannot do in 10's of hours of play (including reinforcement period). it can also reconfigure data systems of the structure and rewrite data logs to mask its actions but wont touch things like onlining/offlining systems and POS shield harmonics cause u know, who'd want to breach those things!
the whole things stupidly short sighted in initial implementation both in a game mechanics sense and in RP sense and seems to be vastly unbalanced in favour of the aggressors. sort it out. |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:09:00 -
[497] - Quote
Deathwalley wrote:MeBiatch wrote:Deathwalley wrote:Okay, go on. But a lot of goons in this topic, many populist phrases like "We can double all the T2 ship prices", are telling that siphons can cause some problems for goons. yes in the very very very long run... perhaps after two years. but remember goons had a monoploy on high end minerals for a long long time... and they knew that thier tech would be nerfed so they more then likely bought up huge stockpiles of r64 that i would guess can last just alone for 1-2 years. so yes in the long run this is bad for goons... but from thier stated plans... they will make enough money from this now to cover themselves for perhaps 2 more years on top of that... But why in this topic, over 70% of all comments are by goons? And all of them, is about how bad siphons are, and how they will crush all of us.
they have a habbit of pointing out bad game mechanics by taking them to the extream. they are simply warning ccp what the problem is and how they are going to exploit it.
by removing the 20% base loss this will remove the bulk of the problem. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:11:00 -
[498] - Quote
Courthouse wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Laendra wrote: that we are going to use our vast infrastructure and playerbase to DECIMATE moon production everywhere in EVE....for everyone. Excellent, can't wait to see it happen..... and partake a bit myself. Content for everyone! If your idea of a good game is rampant price manipulation, barriers for entry for new pilots being much larger and the richest, most entrenched nullsec entities getting richer, then go hog wild. Personally I'd rather see bad ideas fixed before release, lower barriers for entry and some sort of existential threat to ourselves and some of the other nullsec old bloods. The sort of binary logic that anything someone in Goonswarm doesn't like must be good is problematic, not the least of reasons why being that we also pay subscriptions or PLEX for this game and it's in our vested interest that it not be overly boring or troublesome to play.
you know goons should stop putting thier alts in GSF... that way you can post with a npc alt so people will take you seriously...
so please dont post with your main. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1384
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:14:00 -
[499] - Quote
SMT008 wrote:I guess I'll just spam the hell out of them and see what happens/how much money I'll get/how much tears I'll get.
Happy times for everyone but the one who gets his stuff stolen.
so i heard TRI is reforming... you upset some of your brosefs are leaving? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Klyith
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
36
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:19:00 -
[500] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote: you know goons should stop putting thier alts in GSF... that way you can post with a npc alt so people will take you seriously...
so please dont post with your main.
We prefer to post with our real GS characters. We do it so that when we're right, we can be openly smug about how right we were.
Especially when we post about things that are stupidly abusable, which we go on to abuse to the maximum extent possible, and everyone else complains grrr Goons. "We told you so" smug is the best smug. |
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Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1309
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:24:00 -
[501] - Quote
See, we are the Babe Ruth of EVE Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal. Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve. |
Khoul Ay'd
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
107
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:25:00 -
[502] - Quote
I can't believe I'm doing this but...I'm with the Goons on this! Sure, its easy for small time operators to go, "Ha-ha, Goons gonna lose iskies!" (In reality probably not) So, "Khoul," you say, "why so sad?"
It's this post from CCP SoniClover that disturbs me. "...One of which could go for alchemy..." This begs the question, what are the other other siphons going to target -- POS Fuels, invention components, blueprints, construction components, boosters?
There are plenty of small time operators running a single to a few POSes. If the siphons I imagined come around the small time POS operator is history. I think we have our, 'first they came for the _____' moment.
So there you have it, a carebear at heart has sided with the Goons. You have been warned. The things we do today we must live with forever.... Think about it |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:25:00 -
[503] - Quote
Klyith wrote:MeBiatch wrote: you know goons should stop putting thier alts in GSF... that way you can post with a npc alt so people will take you seriously...
so please dont post with your main.
We prefer to post with our real GS characters. We do it so that when we're right, we can be openly smug about how right we were. Especially when we post about things that are stupidly abusable, which we go on to abuse to the maximum extent possible, and everyone else complains grrr Goons. "We told you so" smug is the best smug.
touche. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:26:00 -
[504] - Quote
Aryth wrote:See, we are the Babe Ruth of EVE
interesting because everyone wishes you were lou gehrig... There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1385
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:27:00 -
[505] - Quote
Khoul Ay'd wrote:I can't believe I'm doing this but...I'm with the Goons on this! Sure, its easy for small time operators to go, "Ha-ha, Goons gonna lose iskies!" (In reality probably not) So, " Khoul," you say, " why so sad?" It's this post from CCP SoniClover that disturbs me. " ...One of which could go for alchemy..." This begs the question, what are the other other siphons going to target -- POS Fuels, invention components, blueprints, construction components, boosters? There are plenty of small time operators running a single to a few POSes. If the siphons I imagined come around the small time POS operator is history. I think we have our, 'first they came for the _____' moment. So there you have it, a carebear at heart has sided with the Goons. You have been warned.
i know i did it too... i feel like lady macbeth who cant get that damn spot out. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Orakkus
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
210
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:30:00 -
[506] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote: by removing the 20% base loss this will remove the bulk of the problem.
That won't remove the problem. It may, MAY mitigate it somewhat, but even that isn't very likely. No, to fix this all you would need to do is limit the number of siphons per POS to just one. If that happens, it will revert back to its original purpose.. as a tool for the little guy to use against the big guy. Sure, the big guy can still use it, but the interaction would be a much more equal ground. He's not just famous, he's "IN" famous. - Ned Nederlander
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Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:32:00 -
[507] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:i know i did it too... i feel like lady macbeth who cant get that damn spot out.
Nought's had, all's spent, Where our desire is got without content; 'Tis safer to be that which we destroy Than by destruction dwell in doubtful joy. |
Courthouse
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
425
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:34:00 -
[508] - Quote
For the illiterates, that line's from Macbeth. That's a Shakespeare joint. It's about how when you get your way it's not always the happy celebration you think it is.
Sort of like how the "raar goons hate it so I must love it" are going to feel. Only they won't post that in iambic. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:41:00 -
[509] - Quote
Courthouse wrote:That's a Shakespeare joint. The Bard should be careful where he has his joint it is still illegal federally :ohdear: This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 23:46:00 -
[510] - Quote
Aryth wrote:... Size doesn't matter. Organization does. ... Applause! |
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