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Caj1n	Posted - 2008.04.17 07:26:00 - [811] Edited by: Caj1n on 17/04/2008 07:33:31 Edited by: Caj1n on 17/04/2008 07:30:21 Edited by: Caj1n on 17/04/2008 07:30:01 Edited by: Caj1n on 17/04/2008 07:28:09 "Med 1 x XL Shield booster II 1 x Invulnrability field II 2 x Rat spec hardeners II 2 x Cap Recharger II" I have questuion to this guy. When you do Mercs or Drones what are your resists with this build ?:P
Caryna Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:19:00 - [812] mercs deal most heavy kin / therm --> invu II / therm II / kin II therm ~ 75%, kin ~ 80% drones most kin / exp --> kin 80%, exp ~ 85%
Gentle Bra State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.17 09:48:00 - [813] ^^ Beat me
Chiefs	Posted - 2008.04.17 14:27:00 - [814] Originally by: marie claude the xl booster is un needed i use a large t2 all the othe slots have t2 active resist and 1 t2 invull 3 cpr in lows 2 t2 bcu 3 ccc rigs can tank any lv 4 mission 6 cruise launchers a drone aug 1400 mm arti 5 med t2 drones 5 lt t2 rat specific i love you. biggest thing i cant get over is why so many ppl choose XL over just a large booster. EFT shows with a large booster and CPRs, cap is sustainable forever. (unless you get NOSd, but if you get NOSd with an XL youre in much bigger trouble) sure XL gives more but even if you can kill everything in 2 minutes youre gonna be standing around waiting for the cap to recharge possibly at a bad moment. seems XL always has you dancing with the on/off button and going low on cap and requires alot of attention. maybe when i get to some missions where my large booster isnt enough to regen my incoming damage i'll be forced to change my setup. til then i'd rather not worry about running out of cap every other minute. if youre in that much trouble that you need an XL in the first place then your gonna be in trouble when you find out its only sustainable for 2 1/2 minutes on average and you wont have a full cap when the next group warps in on you. grant it some pros have no issues and are fine, and choose to swap out type specific hardeners per mission, but what if you want to run several missions at a time w/o going off to refit all the time. and if starting out new to battleship, you dont wanna see that pretty new expensive thing get destroyed. its smart to use 1 dcu just til you know you can handle things and know your setup works in the field. it will suck if you have to warp out and you dont have 1 dcu when the stuff hits the fan. seeing 1/2 the ppl posting here are new to the battleship, thats the best advice you can take. XL/amp = 381/875 defense for 2 mins large/CPRs = 734/734 forever and ever you'll do 20% less damage but you will be able to go longer than 2 minutes.
t1mmeh	Posted - 2008.04.18 12:51:00 - [815]
Nobues Gallente Nomadic Wayfarer Syndicate Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:14:00 - [816] Originally by: Voin To all those who writening PDU! Please, stop to give out incorrect name of item... We don't have unit!!! But we have System in EVE (PDS). Don't mess with name of item, u recomending for. My setup are: 5 x T2 Siege 1 x Arbalest Cruise 2 x Heavy diminishing nos Pith B-type Large SB Dread Guristas Amp Cap Recharger II 3 x T2 Hardeners (dependse of faction of npc's) 5 x PDS II In drone bay ( 5 x Hornet II in one group and 5 x Vespa II in other group) stupid noobs they been called PDU's before you even know what eve was and there stay that way.. Now go away. Webhosting, teamspeak and Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info
Nobues Gallente Nomadic Wayfarer Syndicate Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:25:00 - [817] First Stop using torps in missions, why, well the range. Take off the AB's you save more time using this setup hi - slots 6x 'Arbalest' CRUSE 1x Tracker beam 1x Salvager --------------- mid - slots 1x T2 XL-Shield Boster 3x Hardners (mission spec) 2x T2 Cap rechargers --------------- Lo - Slots 4x T2 PDU 1x Cap Relay --------------- Rig - Slots 3x CCC's with this setup you can run you XL boster forever, kill everything, and be out of the missions before any torp raven can think about, issue with torp raven is you have to AB all the time to your target.. Just sit back at any range and have fun. salvage as you go. This same setup applys to a CNR but take out the cap relay and say a BCU or something, or a 5th PDU. Webhosting, teamspeak and Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info
Velasi	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:32:00 - [818] I just started level 4's and am having serious problems with them... 6 arb cruise-use rat specific ammo(standard) 2 hvy dim nos XL shield boost II L Shield extender II 2 invul II 2 rat specific PDS II BCS II x3 co-processor( had to fit this to fit everythign else out) 3 CCC The issues I am having is I am unable to kill anything quick enough before my cap runs out thus I have to flee and come back. I currently have around 6.7mil sp's...is that my problem? to run level 4's efficiently do you need much higher skill levels?
Nobues Gallente Nomadic Wayfarer Syndicate Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:41:00 - [819] Edited by: Nobues on 18/04/2008 17:45:11 one post about yours use that setup.. Originally by: Velasi I just started level 4's and am having serious problems with them... 6 arb cruise-use rat specific ammo(standard) 2 hvy dim nos XL shield boost II L Shield extender II 2 invul II 2 rat specific PDS II BCS II x3 co-processor( had to fit this to fit everythign else out) 3 CCC The issues I am having is I am unable to kill anything quick enough before my cap runs out thus I have to flee and come back. I currently have around 6.7mil sp's...is that my problem? to run level 4's efficiently do you need much higher skill levels? first take off the noss, stop using them there useless for any ship that is smaller than yours, lose the extender, drop down to only 1 invul , add cap rechangers in the 2 free mids slots. take out the 2nd and 3rd BCU they dont give you any real bost after 1 due to stacking crap, take out the the co CPU you wont be using the 2x hvy nos so you dont need it. add a cap ralay in your low, JUST ONE!, full the other 2 free slots with PDU's everything else is good. Webhosting, teamspeak and Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info
Velasi	Posted - 2008.04.18 17:48:00 - [820] no bcs? doesn't that gimp your dps some? and drones...I have been using valk II's but they seem to die fast...even after I get initial aggro
Nobues Gallente Nomadic Wayfarer Syndicate Carpe Universitas	Posted - 2008.04.18 18:37:00 - [821] Originally by: Velasi no bcs? doesn't that gimp your dps some? and drones...I have been using valk II's but they seem to die fast...even after I get initial aggro no you have to control your drones and not let them get away from ya, pick there targets and not let me them there own. with out a BCS it does dampen my DPS a little but not enough, I can still kill things faster than a trop raven due to I dont have to fly to the target, torp ravens do. its a win/win, I know I can go afk if need be and when I come back my raven will still be there. Webhosting, teamspeak and Killboard for you, your corp, and your Alliance Click me for more info
Annie Gardet	Posted - 2008.04.22 11:31:00 - [822] Originally by: Nobues with out a BCS it does dampen my DPS a little but not enough, I can still kill things faster than a trop raven due to I dont have to fly to the target, torp ravens do. its a win/win, I know I can go afk if need be and when I come back my raven will still be there. I would use raven only for faster missioning as gallente. To be afk, you can use passive shielded myrmidon, drake, dominix.. whatever. Maybe I'm wrong but when I check raven setup in EFT (level 5 skills, 6x cruise for comparison): No BCS - 245dps, 1 BCS - 301dps, 2 BCS - 360dps, 3 BCS - 405dps, Can I understant that 3 BCS = 40% more dps = 40% faster mission ?
Raging Taurus Dark Cross Industries	Posted - 2008.04.22 15:13:00 - [823] Hi This is the raven setup I used before moving to the Raven Navy Issue (a step which I would strongly recommend, especially since it can now be bought for less than 500M): HIs 6x Cruise Missile Launcher IIs 2x Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Meds: 1x Calday Navy XL-Shield Booster (have to be due to CPU, or sacrifice a BCU for a Co-processor) 2x Shield boost amplifier II 1x Invulnerability Field II 2x Rat specific Hardeners II (in instances when all dmg types is dealt, use another Invul II and an EM hardener II) Lows: 1xCo-processor II 1xPOwer Diagnostic System II 3x Ballistic Control Unit II Rigs 3x Core Defence Capacitor Sa***aurd (not CCC! not due to isk, but these are more effective when using an X-L Booster as you can run the longer with these, than with CCCs) Drones: 1xLight, 2xMed , 2 Heavies I read several arguments for a Large Shield Booster. It certainly needs less attention as one can perma run it, however perma running means that the ship is producing more cap than what is being used. In an active tank, (and in my opinion ofc :)) this means that the ship has the potential to tank more DPS than it actually is. Of course, it cannot do so permanently but afterall, with 3xBCUs and those drones, one can reduce the DPS quickly enough to avoid the need to warp out (not always, but in most cases). My point: With an X-L booster, 2xShield boost amps (to add more boost) and 3xcore cap def rigs (To use less cap per boost), the end result is that you'll need to warp out less frequently (in lvl 4 missions ofc), when compared to using a large shield booster. RT
Sturmwolke School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.24 00:50:00 - [824] Edited by: Sturmwolke on 24/04/2008 00:52:44 Originally by: Raging Taurus My point: With an X-L booster, 2xShield boost amps (to add more boost) and 3xcore cap def rigs (To use less cap per boost), the end result is that you'll need to warp out less frequently (in lvl 4 missions ofc), when compared to using a large shield booster. This jogs my mind so I went down to EFT to check the figures. It doesn't give you real-time figures of incoming dps VS cap VS shield boost VS time in one nice graph, I wished that it did though. It'll be so much easier to find the sweet spot. The configs on the spotlight are : 3 x CCC (4 Hardeners, 1 SB) 3 x CCC (3 Hardeners, 2 SB)) 3 x CDCS (4 Hardeners, 1 SB) 3 x CDCS (3 Hardeners, 2 SB) Measurement is via cap transferred to boost shields in realtime at peak recharge. [3 x CCC (4 Hardeners, 1 SB)] peak cap recharge +41.1 shield boost efficiency = 816/360 = 2.27 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 41.1 * 2.27 = 93.3 [3 x CCC (3 Hardeners, 2SB)] peak cap recharge +41.1 shield boost efficiency = 1071/360 = 2.98 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 41.1 * 2.98 = 122.5 [3 x CDCS (4 Hardeners, 1SB)] peak cap recharge +25.2 shield boost efficiency = 816/262.4 = 3.11 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 25.2 * 3.11 = 78.4 [3 x CDCS (3 Hardeners, 2SB)] peak cap recharge +25.2 shield boost efficiency = 1071/262.4 = 4.09 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 25.2 * 4.09 = 103.1 Of course, the figures above ignores the ~5K cap buffer that the Raven starts off initially before it reaches peak cap recharge. This more or less translates to an EXTRA 5K shield HP buffer for the CDCS setup before it goes into sustained mode. In conclusion, utilizing CDCS over CCC is akin to a Drake with CDFE over CDFP. It's a buffer tank in disguise
Raging Taurus Dark Cross Industries	Posted - 2008.04.24 16:12:00 - [825] Originally by: Sturmwolke Edited by: Sturmwolke on 24/04/2008 01:19:09 Edited by: Sturmwolke on 24/04/2008 01:12:27 Originally by: Raging Taurus My point: With an X-L booster, 2xShield boost amps (to add more boost) and 3xcore cap def rigs (To use less cap per boost), the end result is that you'll need to warp out less frequently (in lvl 4 missions ofc), when compared to using a large shield booster. This jogs my mind so I went down to EFT to check the figures. It doesn't give you real-time figures of incoming dps VS cap VS shield boost VS time in one nice graph, I wished that it did though. It'll be so much easier to find the sweet spot. The configs on the spotlight are : 3 x CCC (4 Hardeners, 1 SB) 3 x CCC (3 Hardeners, 2 SB)) 3 x CDCS (4 Hardeners, 1 SB) 3 x CDCS (3 Hardeners, 2 SB) Measurement is via cap transferred to boost shields in realtime at peak recharge. [3 x CCC (4 Hardeners, 1 SBA)] peak cap recharge +41.1 shield boost efficiency = 816/360 = 2.27 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 41.1 * 2.27 = 93.3 [3 x CCC (3 Hardeners, 2SBA)] peak cap recharge +41.1 shield boost efficiency = 1071/360 = 2.98 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 41.1 * 2.98 = 122.5 [3 x CDCS (4 Hardeners, 1SBA)] peak cap recharge +25.2 shield boost efficiency = 816/262.4 = 3.11 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 25.2 * 3.11 = 78.4 [3 x CDCS (3 Hardeners, 2SBA)] peak cap recharge +25.2 shield boost efficiency = 1071/262.4 = 4.09 shield HP/cap sustainable peak boost rating = 25.2 * 4.09 = 103.1 CDCS is definitely worse off than CCC if you're fighting in sustained mode. Of course, the figures above ignores the ~5K cap buffer that the Raven starts off initially before it reaches peak cap recharge. Deriving from shield boost efficiency comparison, it translates to an EXTRA ~5K shield HP buffer for the CDCS setup before the Raven goes into sustained mode. In conclusion, utilizing CDCS over CCC is akin to a Drake with CDFE over CDFP. It's a buffer tank in disguise Now, a PVP Raven with Cap Boosters and CDCS will do very well indeeed you certainly have an interesting point, but our conclusions differ because we are starting off with a different premis - we have a different understanding of what is effective. I agree that in sustained mode, CCC is better (check figs below). Furthermore, in PvP, the philosophy will be completely different anyway. My setup is geared to run missions effectively and my idea of doing so is to complete it in the least time possible. Increasing the damage dealt is one way, however minimising warp outs is also signficant. I went back to EFT and used my setup as a basis. I compared the changes in EFT reading when i swapped the rig type. In both cases, the X-L shield booster would boost 1071.3 HP every 4 secs (with two shield boosters II). 3xCCC Sustained defence: 252 reinforced defence 781 Max Cap regen +35.8(excluding NoS) Max Cap usage -107.2(all active mods active) Cap lasts for: 1m 25s 3xCDCS Sustained defence: 190 reinforced defence 781 Max Cap regen +22(excluding NoS) Max Cap usage -80.1(all active mods on) Cap lasts for: 1m 48s As you said, 3xCDCS are worse than 3xCCC in sustained mode, however, 3xCDCS would give 23 more secs. Add the effect of nos, and the difference would shoot up to 40 secs (between both setups). During that time, I will be able to kill a couple more rats and thus, increase the likeliness that I'll be able to tank the dps sustainably. RT
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2008.04.24 17:20:00 - [826] The problem with the CDCS is not that it's an ineffective rig, it's just that since CCCs are not stacking nerfed, you get a much better end-result by sticking with them. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Sturmwolke School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.04.25 01:02:00 - [827] Originally by: Raging Taurus you certainly have an interesting point, but our conclusions differ because we are starting off with a different premis - we have a different understanding of what is effective. I agree that in sustained mode, CCC is better (check figs below). Furthermore, in PvP, the philosophy will be completely different anyway. My setup is geared to run missions effectively and my idea of doing so is to complete it in the least time possible. Increasing the damage dealt is one way, however minimising warp outs is also signficant. It wasn't really an argument between CDCS and CCC but more of an academic discourse so that one's aware of the advantages/disadvatanges that they afford. To an extent, the knowledge can be probably applied across the board for many shield tankers. I personally think the CDCS idea have merits, based on the amount of extra time it buys you to defeat incoming DPS (as per your prev post). I'll defintely be testing it out to get the feel for it.
General Tsar	Posted - 2008.04.28 19:29:00 - [828] I just got a Raven and plan on doing Lvl 4s. I only have 300k sp in engerineering and missiles launcher. Is this enough to go lvl 4s in? Also is there any difference between Siege Launchers and Cruise Launchers, if I'm going to use cruise launchers? Or do Cruise Missiles only fit in Cruise Launchers?
Trinity McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.28 20:26:00 - [829] Originally by: General Tsar I just got a Raven and plan on doing Lvl 4s. I only have 300k sp in engerineering and missiles launcher. Is this enough to go lvl 4s in? Also is there any difference between Siege Launchers and Cruise Launchers, if I'm going to use cruise launchers? Or do Cruise Missiles only fit in Cruise Launchers? 300k?? thats barely enough missile skills to fly a kestrel effectivly hope this is just a troll
Velasi	Posted - 2008.04.28 23:53:00 - [830] well tried out the cap heavy recharging build...against bs spawns it is great...but against frig swarms....that warp jam = dead raven. What do you guys do agains tthe swarms of frig's that warp jam? I have heard some people say use smartbombs...but I am not too keen on that...any other suggestions? drones work well of course but are thier any other suggestions?
CogInTheWheel	Posted - 2008.04.29 00:57:00 - [831] Originally by: Velasi well tried out the cap heavy recharging build...against bs spawns it is great...but against frig swarms....that warp jam = dead raven. What do you guys do agains tthe swarms of frig's that warp jam? I have heard some people say use smartbombs...but I am not too keen on that...any other suggestions? drones work well of course but are thier any other suggestions? t2 small drones are all you will ever need to deal with them.
Velasi	Posted - 2008.04.29 01:44:00 - [832] useing valk II's but they just do not seem to do the punch I need...I am gonna train up some more skills in drones to see if they make a bigger difference there...any suggestions on must have skills for drones?
Boaz Netopalis Caldari	Posted - 2008.04.29 09:44:00 - [833] Friend of mine swears by Drone Interfacing -- at level 5 it doubles the damage of your drones. At 4 it's still a nice 80% boost -- 5 drones hit like 9.
Gartan Trask Gallente Aristos Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.01 15:23:00 - [834] What's the current consensus on what goes in the leftover two high slots? Salvager/TB is out, too much tubbing it about when a buddy in a Salvage destroyer is so much faster. Smartbombs, or NOS? Something else? - - - Please - blow up my Velator. There're more where it came from. How much does your ammo cost?
MaidMarion The SMITE Brotherhood	Posted - 2008.05.01 18:28:00 - [835] Edited by: MaidMarion on 01/05/2008 18:29:13 Originally by: Gartan Trask What's the current consensus on what goes in the leftover two high slots? Salvager/TB is out, too much tubbing it about when a buddy in a Salvage destroyer is so much faster. Smartbombs, or NOS? Something else? If ya got good skills you might never need em, but a pair of NOS, whatever fits, for emergency cap you may be able to get from NPCs, nothin else really to put if youve got dedicated salvager. Smartbombs are generally a bad idea in high sec.
Kallria	Posted - 2008.05.06 03:51:00 - [836] Not sure why I don't see this more often, but I use some hybrid guns, a 450 and a 350 proto rail. Tractors and salvagers are pointless when you have an alt on a second PC following you around salvaging.
Chiefs Fan	Posted - 2008.05.06 10:52:00 - [837] ok so im going to test this setup out 6 arbalest cruise 1 drone aug 1 tractor 1 large (not XL) sb named 2 shield booster amps I 3 active hardeners II (mission specific invul, kin, therm) 1 cap recharger II 3 bcs II 2 pds II 3 ccc rigs 4 medium hammerhead I drones +3 extras in bay eft shows 6 minutes 19 seconds of cap with this sb on, so its almost perma, i need to test the lvl 4 missions to see if it can keep up with the incoming damage and my resist not being perfect. with the xl named sb i get about 2 minutes 11 seconds of cap but i have to drop a 3rd bcs to do that and 2 mins isnt that great. my alternate setup would obviously be gist xl sb for easy mode that runs for 5 minutes, or perma depending on other modules... but its 900mil i wish my drones were better. frigs die noticably slow. im only at 3.5 mil total sp
lord riffraff	Posted - 2008.05.09 18:00:00 - [838] Does anyone like to go with 3x Core Defence Field Purger in the rigs and try a setup similar to a Drake's? Mid slots would be 3x hardeners, 3x shield exenders, low slots 2x BCS, 1x Shield power relay, 2x PDU I haven't done missions in a long time but was about to start up again and was wondering if I should stick with a setup like this or tear the rigs out, put in CCC's and put a shield booster on. Thoughts?
Hanneshannes	Posted - 2008.05.09 18:09:00 - [839] The base recharge is too low on the raven and the drake usually gets more shield HP, thus more recharge. A drake outtanks a raven pretty well really. To make it work in any way on the raven, you need all lows fitted with SPRs, which severely hurts your DPS.
Pan Zhu'Liang Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.05.11 03:52:00 - [840] Originally by: lord riffraff Does anyone like to go with 3x Core Defence Field Purger in the rigs and try a setup similar to a Drake's? Mid slots would be 3x hardeners, 3x shield exenders, low slots 2x BCS, 1x Shield power relay, 2x PDU I haven't done missions in a long time but was about to start up again and was wondering if I should stick with a setup like this or tear the rigs out, put in CCC's and put a shield booster on. Thoughts? you can make this work with a CNR if you really want to. the thing is it wont tank as much dps as a permarunning booster setup, so what's the point?

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