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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 24 post(s) |
Anhenka
Daktaklakpak. Red Coat Conspiracy
406
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:42:00 -
[601] - Quote
Krom Thomson wrote: minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions
Tell me Krom. As a nullsec miner living in the space of an alliance that protects you so that you don't have to protect yourself, which one of these is an appropriate price for Trit?
A: Jita price.
B: Above Jita price
C: Below Jita price
If A: We don't need you because we can do that via compression and JF with minimal costs, in much higher volume, on demand.
If B: **** off, we REALLY don't need you because we can import it at Jita price.
If C: Are you seriously saying there are miners willing to come to nullsec, mine Tritanium, then get paid less for it than highsec miners get paid for less effort? Well come on in. We'd love tons of trit at 75% of Jita price. |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:42:00 -
[602] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Tarsas Phage wrote:Jagoff Haverford wrote: So null pilots are going to take a far bigger hit in training time than those who live in empire space.
No troll, but I would think 0.0 duders would be pretty used to this sort of skill regimen with all the varied fleet doctrines that come and go. Boots no Baltecs oh wait now OmegaFleet Nags oh don't forget Talwar/Crow fleets better make time for Maestroms etc etc. Besides, we're looking at, what, Rank 1 skills? Really? Just pretend you're training T3 subs if that'll make it go down easier. It's the circle of life. Just keep training for what the current doctrine is, getting cut off before you finish it, rinse repeat. Eventually, it might be a month, six months, a year, three years, but the doctrine you half trained for will come back, and you will be ready. Remember Hellcat abbadons? Amarr BS V and t2 LG lasers. It took a hell of a long time to come back, but Apocs needing the same skills are now a thing. Circle of life :)
i just went logi when i lived in null everyone loves logi :P
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1886
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:48:00 -
[603] - Quote
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Minari Inocari wrote:"Keep calm and carry on"
This is not something to be calm about. You're going to ruin Pro Synergy, a salvaging service corp, and they're already hitting harder times because of the MTU. This is going to be a huge hit to new players and mission runners who rely on their services to become established in eve, and your "compensation" does nothing to help them.
This change is not something I can support at all. Empires rise, And empires fall, Some even burn to the ground. It's the natural order of things. Adapt or die. in other exciting news, we will remove spaceships from EVE. adapt or die.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
1063
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:50:00 -
[604] - Quote
Knew I should have sold my Rorqual alt a while back instead of training it up more... sigh. |
Beofryn Sedorak
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:50:00 -
[605] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Beofryn Sedorak wrote:Minari Inocari wrote:"Keep calm and carry on"
This is not something to be calm about. You're going to ruin Pro Synergy, a salvaging service corp, and they're already hitting harder times because of the MTU. This is going to be a huge hit to new players and mission runners who rely on their services to become established in eve, and your "compensation" does nothing to help them.
This change is not something I can support at all. Empires rise, And empires fall, Some even burn to the ground. It's the natural order of things. Adapt or die. in other exciting news, we will remove spaceships from EVE. adapt or die.
Does that mean it's time for walking stations? :D |
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
299
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:52:00 -
[606] - Quote
There is a fundamental problem with the current state of affairs within New Eden. It's in the core, like a cancer growing. What you're doing is prescribing make up for the a sick patient that's going pale.
Tackle the root problem, we don't need band aids. |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.03.20 23:54:00 -
[607] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Krom Thomson wrote: minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions
Tell me Krom. As a nullsec miner living in the space of an alliance that protects you so that you don't have to protect yourself, which one of these is an appropriate price for Trit? A: Jita price. B: Above Jita price C: Below Jita price If A: We don't need you because we can do that via compression and JF with minimal costs, in much higher volume, on demand. If B: **** off, we REALLY don't need you because we can import it at Jita price. If C: Are you seriously saying there are miners willing to come to nullsec, mine Tritanium, then get paid less for it than highsec miners get paid for less effort? Well come on in. We'd love tons of trit at 75% of Jita price.
wait you guys protect your miners? wow you guys will be the first |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1886
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:01:00 -
[608] - Quote
since i can't be assed to read all 30 pages, i'll just ask: has there been any thought on making refining less than instant? it does not have to scale linearly, but even a logarithmically scaling duration would be better than than just snapping your fingers and turning millions of tons of stuff into other stuff.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:03:00 -
[609] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:since i can't be assed to read all 30 pages, i'll just ask: has there been any thought on making refining less than instant? it does not have to scale linearly, but even a logarithmically scaling duration would be better than than just snapping your fingers and turning millions of tons of stuff into other stuff. that is an idea i could get behind |
mkint
1079
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:09:00 -
[610] - Quote
Anhenka wrote:Krom Thomson wrote: minners are also not the once who do the ungodly mark ups its the people who move stuff in via jf or carrier and wh on the off occasions
Tell me Krom. As a nullsec miner living in the space of an alliance that protects you so that you don't have to protect yourself, which one of these is an appropriate price for Trit? A: Jita price. B: Above Jita price C: Below Jita price If A: We don't need you because we can do that via compression and JF with minimal costs, in much higher volume, on demand. If B: **** off, we REALLY don't need you because we can import it at Jita price. If C: Are you seriously saying there are miners willing to come to nullsec, mine Tritanium, then get paid less for it than highsec miners get paid for less effort? Well come on in. We'd love tons of trit at 75% of Jita price. You know, that's great and all, but I'm not sure what that has to do with refining. I think I'd be less annoyed by something like double-trit veldspar in nullsec than I am about this refining thing. At least then it would take some effort to benefit from the changes instead of just a freebie gift to dev-bros. I mean, nullsec doesn't HAVE to be better at absolutely everything. I never saw that written down anywhere by anyone who matters. But if the devs are gonna give free stuff to their bros, it could at least take a little bit of effort. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1887
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:12:00 -
[611] - Quote
and while i'm on the roll, maybe we could reimburse mission runners by making salvage refinable (call it refurbishing or something). so for example five armor plates get refurbished into one intact armor plate for T2 rigs. this would mitigate the absurd price differences between some T1 and T2 rigs and the only profession nerfed would be explorers (fuck them).
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Sylvia Lafayette
Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
0
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:14:00 -
[612] - Quote
Turning the medium intensive array into a compression array is an indirect nerf to the rorqual. Maybe make it able to refine in siege mode with a 12% per level to base refine? That way the option is either anchor a pos or bring in a rorqual as a mobile industry platform |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
208
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:18:00 -
[613] - Quote
mkint wrote:At least then it would take some effort to benefit from the changes instead of just a freebie gift to dev-bros. I mean, nullsec doesn't HAVE to be better at absolutely everything. I never saw that written down anywhere by anyone who matters. But if the devs are gonna give free stuff to their bros, it could at least take a little bit of effort. Man, if this is the usufruct of some sort of relationship with CCP, we've really fucked up. Instead of the way it's being laid out, where you have to spend 60 billion ISK to get the 60% efficiency station, we could have gotten it for free. I guess we'll have to send our negotiators back to the table, minus a few layers of back skin from the flaying. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:21:00 -
[614] - Quote
Querns wrote:mkint wrote:At least then it would take some effort to benefit from the changes instead of just a freebie gift to dev-bros. I mean, nullsec doesn't HAVE to be better at absolutely everything. I never saw that written down anywhere by anyone who matters. But if the devs are gonna give free stuff to their bros, it could at least take a little bit of effort. Man, if this is the usufruct of some sort of relationship with CCP, we've really fu cked up. Instead of the way it's being laid out, where you have to spend 60 billion ISK to get the 60% efficiency station, we could have gotten it for free. I guess we'll have to send our negotiators back to the table, minus a few layers of back skin from the flaying. ok you guys ***** about the upgrade cost but forget who makes the prices on them |
Haldan Shepherd
Warpstorm Consulting
0
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:21:00 -
[615] - Quote
Whats up Crackheadz?
do you even play your own game? Industy is more than Mining Frigate I and i can fly Venture and its like btzzzz, btzzzz, btzzzzzzzzzzzz and i can melt Roidz!!! LOL!!!
* I think the only valid Point is perfect Ore refining Skills should net in about 99% refine. (Without Implants. Implants should be an Option to get an extra 1% or to compensate missing Skills / training Time). Giving Player Outposts an extra % is ok so they don't have to use Implants or need less training to get maximum yield.
* For me it looks like supply from 0-sec / Wormhole Minerals is bigger than demand in Highsec and supply from High-sec Minerals is lower than demand in 0-sec. So for me it would make sense to buff Trit, Pye, Mex, Iso in 0.0 and / or nerf it in High-Sec
* Nerfing Scrapmetal Reprocessing is a very bad Idea. It will affect loot and salvage, Noctis, Marauders. Making Meta 1-3 more worthless. Most of these Items reprocess to High Sec Minerals and will increase their demand. Making Highsec Mining even more attractive and drive Mission Runners to skip looting and blitzing missions more. When an Ratter says he gets 1/4 to 1/3 from Loot and Salvage and you cut 50% of that Loot that mostly goes to Trit, Pye, Mex, Iso I would say your are making it more difficult for 0-sec industry, as this increases demand to haul these Minerals from High-Sec. I would suggest to add another skill like "Advanced Scrapmetal Processing" to get ~99% refine on Items with perfect Skills.
* Ore Compression is not Mineral Compression. When you refine Ore you get Minerals (There is no way of turning Minerals back to Ore to use your compression). Players will stop to refine their Ore to sell Minerals and will only sell Ore. Only Builders will refine at the location where they are building their Stuff. And they will not use NPC Stations as every % counts, because of their huge amount to refine. They will use Refining Arrays for the extra 2%. You are actively working on making an entire Skilltree unattractive for most Players. I would suggest to add something like "Superdense Compressed Tritanium Coin" that needs 1m Trit and some extra Material to build and that Coin has maybe 100m-¦ Volume and can be refined back to 1m Trit with loosing the extra Material.
* Refining Arrays are way to strong as they are not affected by station tax (NPC or Corp Tax). Your Blog didn't explained if they are affected by skills (i would assume they do). They can be used by One-Man-Corps. Compression Array is way to strong (or you have to buff Rorqual by a huge amount) because Anchoring I only needs like 10 Minutes compared to 1 Year before you can use an Rorqual. Btw. Rorquals rarely go to Belts they spent most of their Time sitting in POS waiting for Haulers bring in Ore to compress it (and giving Links while sitting inside POS - i know it has something to do with your balancing risk vs. reward and making 0.0 attractive and giving opportunities for pvp-focused players etc.).
* "It is also important to note that NPC station reprocessing rates are not being changed for now." Let me translate that into an more understandable Statement: "We give a **** about the **** that is called our Game Database!" In the beginning there where very few Stations that had Refining Service. These Stations where owned by NPC-Mining-Corps (25%-40% Station Equipment). Later CCP discovered that this was a bad Design so they added Refining Service to all Stations (50%) but all Stations that already had Refining Service (the NPC-Corps that specialized in Mining) remained unchanged. So now Concord and all Pirate Faction Stations have better Refining Equipment than "Poksu Mineral Group MINING OUTPOSTS". I would suggest to add yellow stripes to Stations with less than 50% Refining Equipment so they look faster. |
hopielee hopielie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:22:00 -
[616] - Quote
jeep hearing that the PoS will compete with the roqu. it will not, because if you are in high or low sec, finding a moon will be a problem(high sec standings may as well). but in null you would need a ship to carry the compressed ores, and have a tank, so think the rorq will be fine. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
208
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:23:00 -
[617] - Quote
Krom Thomson wrote:Querns wrote:mkint wrote:At least then it would take some effort to benefit from the changes instead of just a freebie gift to dev-bros. I mean, nullsec doesn't HAVE to be better at absolutely everything. I never saw that written down anywhere by anyone who matters. But if the devs are gonna give free stuff to their bros, it could at least take a little bit of effort. Man, if this is the usufruct of some sort of relationship with CCP, we've really fu cked up. Instead of the way it's being laid out, where you have to spend 60 billion ISK to get the 60% efficiency station, we could have gotten it for free. I guess we'll have to send our negotiators back to the table, minus a few layers of back skin from the flaying. ok you guys ***** about the upgrade cost but forget who makes the prices on them http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=27660 http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=28039
Looks like it's mostly Planetary Interaction dudes. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
201
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:24:00 -
[618] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Unable to refine ore for profit?
Sell it, so someone else refines it.
Where's it written that Miners have to be the ones who refine ore? Especially newbie miners?
So we should filter out even more market volume noise in our tables now? ;)
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Scyllyn
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:26:00 -
[619] - Quote
Tell me Krom. As a nullsec miner living in the space of an alliance that protects you so that you don't have to protect yourself, which one of these is an appropriate price for Trit?
A: Jita price.
B: Above Jita price
C: Below Jita price
If A: We don't need you because we can do that via compression and JF with minimal costs, in much higher volume, on demand.
If B: **** off, we REALLY don't need you because we can import it at Jita price.
If C: Are you seriously saying there are miners willing to come to nullsec, mine Tritanium, then get paid less for it than highsec miners get paid for less effort? Well come on in. We'd love tons of trit at 75% of Jita price.[/quote]
With your attitude why even have asteroids in nullsec just have random beacons that you can warp to to see if officer rats have appeared to donate you some overpriced modules.
& about A: If you where not an as**ole and you actually let people mine the ore that is in your belts you could save yourself the "minimal cost" & risk associated with transporting whatever from highsec.
Re C: There are plenty of people in highsec corps/alliances who GIVE most of the ore they mine each week to their corp for nothing. Sure we give them the odd free ship or skill book but most of their satisfaction comes from being involved in the production of ships they are not in a position to produce alone. Surely you are not going to try and argue that you would hate getting free stuff for protecting space you are already protecting anyway?
It has always amazed me that somehow you think that having people mining in your systems that you already protect so your PVPers can belt rat, run anoms, run combat sites, collect PI, suck moongoo IN OTHER SYSTEMS is somehow immensely harder than having 4 or 5 extra people providing intel in systems that would probably otherwise be empty unused space. This totally ignores the income your corp would gain from taxes on planetary interaction, NPC bounties & the fact that YOU would no longer have to no longer do the JF runs to highsec for stuff that is already present in your area as often even if all each your indy's did was produce 1/10th of the mineral's needed for 1 battleship a month. Do you really like JF cyno runs that much?
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Krom Thomson
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
9
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:27:00 -
[620] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Unable to refine ore for profit?
Sell it, so someone else refines it.
Where's it written that Miners have to be the ones who refine ore? Especially newbie miners? So we should filter out even more market volume noise in our tables now? ;)
so what your saying is new pilots should have to struggle even more to make isk in this game? |
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Decaneos
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
101
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:28:00 -
[621] - Quote
I'm not completely sure about this, but does this mean that even if you train scrap metal reprocessing to five, module reprocessing is going to take a massive hit in the nuts?
As this is a big part of my mineral influx ,im not sure i will be very happy about these changes. |
mkint
1080
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:29:00 -
[622] - Quote
hopielee hopielie wrote:jeep hearing that the PoS will compete with the roqu. it will not, because if you are in high or low sec, finding a moon will be a problem(high sec standings may as well). but in null you would need a ship to carry the compressed ores, and have a tank, so think the rorq will be fine. Can't use rorq in high. Anywhere else you always do rorqual compression in the pos shield anyway. And anywhere you've already got a POS shield, save yourself the fuel cost and just run the pos mod. Highsec POSes aren't that hard to get anyway, but it's a useful thing that most people don't realize it. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Scyllyn
Dark Neutron Star Metatron Inc. Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:29:00 -
[623] - Quote
Another question for a Dev.
Why are you modifying every single asteroid, refining array, Station, skills and every thing else that is involved in this mammoth undertaking INSTEAD or just modifying just modules to produce less minerals when melted?
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Fredric Wolf
Black Sheep Down Tactical Narcotics Team
55
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:30:00 -
[624] - Quote
Marcia en Welle wrote:Weaselior wrote:asking for what we get with stations that can be taken away from us would be unfair as you'd be getting the same reward without any of the risk I'm not asking for what you get, I am simply asking for a modicum of benefit over high sec stations. And conducting industry in the back ends of low sec or npc null is not without risk. An upcoming industrial overlord needs somewhere to start, and we cannot all jump straight into null sec with a fully upgraded minmatar outpost. I'm simply suggesting something along the lines of a 55% station for low sec or npc null. That would make something in low sec which is actually worth fighting for.
Drop a pos with an intensive refining array problem solved |
TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
201
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:31:00 -
[625] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Arrendis wrote: So just to check, if I'm reading this right, the major advantage of compression for ice will be making it easier to haul it to the refining location - but that refining location will need to be in sov-null, or you're just throwing money away. If you're selling in high-sec, you're losing money on this change no matter what - either you don't get as much product, or you refine locally and need more JF runs to get the product to market.
Am I missing something, or is that an accurate assessment?
You'll sell your compressed ice in jita, then another null alliance buys it for the LO and brings it back.
So we now all have to buy stock in Red Frog?
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Galphii
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
220
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:32:00 -
[626] - Quote
Fantastic, glad to see you're cleaning up the reprocessing section and normalising ore to 100 units each! And good to hear the Rorqual is going to get some love, 'cause even with these changes, they'll be more commonly used but welded inside a POS shield more than ever. Eager to see more of these blogs too, CCP has been so quiet lately about what's in store. X |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
208
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Posted - 2014.03.21 00:34:00 -
[627] - Quote
Decaneos wrote:I'm not completely sure about this, but does this mean that even if you train scrap metal reprocessing to five, module reprocessing is going to take a massive hit in the nuts?
As this is a big part of my mineral influx ,im not sure i will be very happy about these changes. This is correct; all scrap metal refines will produce 55% of the minerals that they do today at maximum, on both sides of the summer expansion. Additionally, to claw out even that much efficiency, you need Scrapmetal Processing to 5. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:37:00 -
[628] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:My frustration with this is that it's so ungodly tedious to sell a bunch of modules these days that I typically just reprocess my entire station contents and sell the ore to save time.
Can we get some kind of "bulk sell to buy orders" to go with this? Entrepreneurs will still be able to make more money by doing individual sales, but given the bottom has just fallen out of reprocessing modules, it seems like anyone doing any kind of missions will have to spend even more time working on Carpal Tunnel V in stations.
why waste all that time and effort to make almost no isk. Most players will do the math on isk / hour and realize it's not worth their time to loot and salvage anymore. That will probably drive up the cost of meta 1-4 items which will affect newer players almost exclusively.
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
201
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:38:00 -
[629] - Quote
Anys Thes'Realin wrote:I still dabble with this type of stuff on my old Industry alt, and I mostly like these changes, but there are some parts of it I am a little concerned about.
This does make a Refiner/Reprocessor a more important mini-profession. With the Ore compression, I see raw Ore being sold more often and minerals being sold far less often. However, will this paradigm shift benefit miners, or actually make the mining profession less profitable and only benefit the new "middle man refiner" that simply refines everything and marks it up?
[...]
About the mining bit, you forget that markets will look for equilibrium's all the time, this means that if a profession (say mining) will have a dip in volume (as in hours, since the isk/hour ratio will go down for mining), the output volume of mining will reach a equilibrium after a while, since the people going out of the profession will leave a hole in the provided volume from mining activity, since the volume in ores / minerals from mining will drop, people will have to scoop up less volume from the same amount of buy-orders, this will drive up buy order prices, what will attract new miners since the isk / hour ratio will up again, etc... etc...
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
3292
|
Posted - 2014.03.21 00:49:00 -
[630] - Quote
* Can we get a 50% array that can reprocess everything other than ice and ore. This is especially useful in w-space.
* Can you please fix the reprocessing UI so that there is a yield column showing yield for each material reprocessed, rather than the useless and confusing single yield number at the top right of the window (doesn't include material skills).
FYI: I notice that the Reprocessing Array is +4%, the same as an implant, and the Intensive Reprocessing Array is +8%
As I see it, this is a major nerf to "gun mining", and that is a good thing for mining, although I was expecting more like 90% yield than 50%. |
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