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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2014.09.26 21:24:00 -
[811] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote:Because the purpose of nullsec was always fair fights right. Once again you depart down the road of attempting to discredit any possible opposition by injecting the ideas of industry UI and such. In fact you are the only one to mention industry UI and you make comments on relevance?
Face the fact that if you wanted this type of gameplay so bad there was absolutely nothing stopping you from doing something to generate it. You stopped you from creating this content as you mentioned years ago.
I'm talking about sov grind changes coming to the game, if you don't know (and again, you should research your subject) nullsec people are complaining that sov mechanics are stupid, CCP is listening.
BUT, the sov mechanics are only stupid because people are "metagaming" them, nothing is stopping nullsec people to play the game as intended so CCP shouldn't change anything?
Same for the industry changes, we went from a tedious UI to a nice and streamlined UI.
I don't see why I would have to gimp my gameplay and add tedious unfun steps just because you don't like it, I'm not here to please you. I have a Ph.D |
Raquel Rova
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 21:25:00 -
[812] - Quote
Toriessian wrote:Raquel Rova wrote:Seems to me like that example wouldn't be popular because of the effort involved. So why do you deserve something you are unwilling to work for? And if the mechanics are making it nearly impossible to run this kind of content absolutely no changes should be made to support it because "sandbox purity"? How many people is it going to take to secure a system to do this? Your arguing to keep it unfeasible and difficult to run tournaments.
As of right now, there are 106 pilots in singularity. Crazy thought of how hard it is to secure empty systems
Bamboozlement wrote:I'm talking about sov grind changes coming to the game, if you don't know (and again, you should research your subject) nullsec people are complaining that sov mechanics are stupid, CCP is listening.
BUT, the sov mechanics are only stupid because people are "metagaming" them, nothing is stopping nullsec people to play the game as intended so CCP shouldn't change anything?
Same for the industry changes, we went from a tedious UI to a nice and streamlined UI.
I don't see why I would have to gimp my gameplay and add tedious unfun steps just because you don't like it, I'm not here to please you.
Noone is forcing you to organize a tourney, you and others would be imposing this on yourselves, for something you want. Kinda like how everyone else works for things in eve. |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 21:28:00 -
[813] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote:They stopped listening to us with incarna too, that worked well. Once again your injecting your own suppositions onto others logical fallacy Edit: For the record: I have no opinion on Industy UI I support changes to sov null
You are implying that changes like that are bad for the game, despite factual data disproving you, that's my point.
I hope you're not implying that CCP shouldn't add dojos because of the incarna pay2win fiasco.
You support changes to sov null, I don't like sov null but I won't complain to CCP that you shouldn't have a less tedious sov grind. I have a Ph.D |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 21:29:00 -
[814] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote: As of right now, there are 106 pilots in singularity. Crazy thought of how hard it is to secure empty systems
Having mods/pods/boundary violations checks is a lot of work, it's not just about getting an empty systems.
Why do we have to gimp our gameplay just for you? Try to make sense please. I have a Ph.D |
Raquel Rova
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.09.26 21:31:00 -
[815] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:Raquel Rova wrote: As of right now, there are 106 pilots in singularity. Crazy thought of how hard it is to secure empty systems
Having mods/pods/boundary violations checks is a lot of work, it's not just about getting an empty systems. Why do we have to gimp our gameplay just for you? Try to make sense please.
This is clearly not for me, as im irrelevant right?
Its for you, either its worth it so you could make it happen, or not.
Entirely your responsibility of satisfying your own needs |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2361
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Posted - 2014.09.26 21:31:00 -
[816] - Quote
Thread temp locked.
/me fetches broom... ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2361
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Posted - 2014.09.26 21:58:00 -
[817] - Quote
First of, please keep in mind that this concept of a feature, a prototype, is only for testing purposes running on what could be described as the test server for the test server for TQ! It's good to have early feedback on such things as this imho, as many things can change. Design, concept, etcetera. If it gets ever implemented at all that is.
So please feel free to discuss this, but do so in a civil manner!
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster.
Thread re-opened. ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Paranoid Loyd
1987
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Posted - 2014.09.26 22:02:00 -
[818] - Quote
In after housekeeping. Mmm, smells fresh. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 22:13:00 -
[819] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote: Noone is forcing you to organize a tourney, you and others would be imposing this on yourselves, for something you want. Kinda like how everyone else works for things in eve.
Using the same logic : Noone is forcing you to go to nullsec and get sov, you and others would be imposing this on yourselves, for something you want. Kinda like how everyone else works for things in eve, so CCP shouldn't change anything to sov grind and make it less tedious.
Same for POS management, or anything that need a change.
Eve is obviously not a videogame everything should be tedious and clunky. /s I have a Ph.D |
Raquel Rova
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 22:22:00 -
[820] - Quote
Non of these generate a deadspace pocket unable to be warped to, or teleport you to them. Non of these proposals are contrary to the ability for you to be a target of an unbalanced fight. My example simply invalidates the "need" for such a system because we have clearly established it is not a function of weather these could be done or not, that they are not worth it for those interested to do it. |
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Sturm Gewehr
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
46
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 22:24:00 -
[821] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:Toriessian wrote:Raquel Rova wrote:well i didn't think so before. What about this could you not do before given the proper motivation? Control which ships are stocked in the Dojo? Prevent neutral logi? Just first thoughts. Add to that OGB links, implants check, boundary violation check, modules check, etc Ok, soo... you couldn't have a ref/organizing party organizing a tourney in a test server under pre dojo conditions? Require all participants to join the organizing corp in the test server, the ceo or others with sufficient rights to look through the assets of the participants ensuring a compliance with fits. Have them set their clone to the station of the event at the time there of, have them undock and pod them. Have refs/organizers with a few long range alpha ships configured to blap at whatever exceeds given boundary the organizers set (eg: sit in the middle, whack anything to exceed 100km). And simply disqualify any that break the rules of underhanded logi or OGB's. If you see someone whos not supposed to be there simply pause the match or run another one. It would be up to the organizers to pick a system remote enough to be unlikely to bump into. Any players you find that consistantly screw with the tourney can be handled by your community with a simple black list. This example has a way of dealing with: +OGB's +Neutral logi +implant verification +boundary violations +module verification +ship verification As I said, this would be done on a test server not requiring the actual investment in ships and modules, and under more lab like conditions. other players can still put forth the effort to screw with you if they like, but without real killmails and no purposeful repercussions aside from harvesting frustration, there are more meaningful ways of screwing with folk in the live server where loss matters. The organizers could set up what ever incentive policy they like to attract participants and fund their operations. Not to mention stream for spectators to enjoy. If you put half as much effort into trying to solve the situation your self as you do backing a mechanic to do if for you with less options, you could have done something like this long ago. Especially since you speak for so much of the community and have been longing for this content for years. So please, explain how you could not attempt a totally emergent tournament offering complete player control.
First issue is that it is now on the test server, not the live server. There are players who want arena/tournament style content on the live server, currently the only solution is CCP employees donating their free time. I don't understand the stance of trying to push players onto the test server so that there is more content on the live server? Sure you can't warp to the arena but you can stop the arena's from happening. You can force fights and cause potentially billions of isk in damage, dojos have the potential to bring content to more than just the participants.
Also people do put in the effort for this, top AT teams put in thousands of hours of practice on the test servers for sometimes less than an hour of actual combat time on the live server. Players have been doing mock tournament matches for years in preparation. CCP has to give assigned systems to prevent these practices from being tampered with, could you imagine trying to host a tournament when anybody can hop onto the test server and interrupt the entire tournament?
Next, every single one of your examples is gameable, ineffective or a horrible time sink. Your solution is to have as many if not more people regulating the matches than actually participating. Imagine a sov fight where you have 600 pilots fighting but 2000 pilots making sure people are following arbitrary made up mechanics, and then when people don't play by the rules you tell them to "go away".
A lot of the players who have been pushing this idea forward for years now have put titanic amounts of effort into tournament style pvp in the sad state it exists in Eve. It has been pushed to its limits given what little tools we have been given. We have been asking for help because it just isn't viable for us to do on our own.
If you think you can have actual, truly competitive arena/tournament style pvp without in game mechanics you are horribly mistaken, players just cannot replicate the edge of glory, reverse tidi, etc.
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Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 22:30:00 -
[822] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote:Non of these generate a deadspace pocket unable to be warped to, or teleport you to them. Non of these proposals are contrary to the ability for you to be a target of an unbalanced fight. My example simply invalidates the "need" for such a system because we have clearly established it is not a function of weather these tournaments could be established or not, that they are not worth it for those interested to do it.
Because having a deadspace pocket is irrelevant to sov grind, of course they don't have the same features it's not the same thing.
Your example isn't a perfect solution, it's a terribly gimped alternative, we have already gimped our gameplay for years thanks for that. I have a Ph.D |
Sturm Gewehr
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 22:43:00 -
[823] - Quote
Raquel Rova wrote:Non of these generate a deadspace pocket unable to be warped to, or teleport you to them. Non of these proposals are contrary to the ability for you to be a target of an unbalanced fight. My example simply invalidates the "need" for such a system because we have clearly established it is not a function of weather these tournaments could be established or not, that they are not worth it for those interested to do it.
Your example doesn't invalidate anything if anything it proves the point that there needs to be in game mechanics to support arena/tournament gameplay like there is all sorts of "immersion/sandbox/gamebreaking" mechanics in the game to support other styles of play. |
eatingbadies
Sleepless Escorts
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 22:59:00 -
[824] - Quote
I actually just tryed out the dojo on duality, and was unable to get it to work at all. When I accessed the dojo window it shows my dojo and I enter it but am not able to select a fitting even though the dojo is loaded with stuff, and I have the fitting I want saved in my fittings.
How many people have actually logged on to try this, after spending the time to get duality working I see exactly 0 other people on the server =p |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
179
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 00:50:00 -
[825] - Quote
Noriko Mai wrote:All the talk about scannable dojo, reinforce timer, etc... If only one of you would log in on Duality, he/she would see that the "Dojo" is just a mobile depot with the dojo feature attatched to it. It's a prototype of the dojo function. There actualley are exactly zero facts about its stats. It's a freakin mobile depot with huge cargo. Really people.. so mutch shittalk and anger about nothing. But don't let facts interrupt your discussion. (BTW. This is the first real fact since page 32)
True, but as it exists now, those are the facts about its stats. They may change in the future, they may not. |
Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1350
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 01:07:00 -
[826] - Quote
I support this as long as the deployable is destructible without a criminal flag in highsec.
Those who are complaining that this is contrary to the spirit of EVE should also think about B0TLRD. These dojos are basically highsec thunderdomes which, in principle, are exactly what your glorious leaders have chosen to inflict on the game at a much larger scale. Go do something about that if you truly care about the spirit of EVE. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2743
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 01:10:00 -
[827] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I support this as long as the deployable is destructible without a criminal flag in highsec.
Those who are complaining that this is contrary to the spirit of EVE should also think about B0TLRD. These dojos are basically highsec thunderdomes which, in principle, are exactly what your glorious leaders have chosen to inflict on the game at a much larger scale. Go do something about that if you truly care about the spirit of EVE.
Those cursed Accords are about as un-EVE as it gets. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
179
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 01:14:00 -
[828] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Those cursed Accords are about as un-EVE as it gets.
Something players build and agree upon between one another is against the spirit of the sandbox? If you don't like B0TLRD, do something about it. Foment unrest. Engage in covert activities designed to undermine them. Claw your way up the ranks in one of the parties to B0TLRD and then tear them to little pieces.
I dunno, seems to me complaining about something someone else has wrought, rather than actively trying to blow it up, is the un-EVE activity.
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Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1350
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 01:38:00 -
[829] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Those cursed Accords are about as un-EVE as it gets.
Something players build and agree upon between one another is against the spirit of the sandbox? If you don't like B0TLRD, do something about it. Foment unrest. Engage in covert activities designed to undermine them. Claw your way up the ranks in one of the parties to B0TLRD and then tear them to little pieces. I dunno, seems to me complaining about something someone else has wrought, rather than actively trying to blow it up, is the un-EVE activity. Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. Supporting B0TLRD while complaining about this is hypocritical in the extreme. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Erutpar Ambient
The Flying Tigers Black Core Alliance
189
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 03:28:00 -
[830] - Quote
Wow!
I think this is a great idea!
The best parts are this:
1. It's small scale pvp: 1v1. So it's not going to replace standard pvp in any significant way. 2. It's not "free". You still have to buy your deployable module and the ships still get blown up. It will positively affect the economy. 3. Allows for totally fair dueling. Easy to run bets with and allows players to test their skill against each other.
I do wonder though, does this have a spectator function? Maybe allow people to watch by placing them in cloaked pods or unfit noob ships. And does the module allow everyone in the system to duel at any time? or is there a way to limit who can use it? Also, when the fight is over, do you have to fly back to station? Or does it automatically take you there? |
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2844
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Posted - 2014.09.27 03:59:00 -
[831] - Quote
Noriko Mai wrote:Bienator II wrote:any ETA when connecting to duality will work again? When i want to connect to it the launcher ends up rendering nothing, just a white, empty rectangle.
would like to test it CCP Veritas wrote:Folks can use "/build:828481" instead of "/server:Duality" in the launcher shortcut to patch. Directions should work from that point forward.
Hopefully the stated directions will start working later, but for now that'll workaround. It is working. Use " /build:828481" for launcher shortcut. Let it patch. Use " /server:Duality" for .../bin/exefile.exe shortcut to launch eve.
oh right i didn't know that the exe itself can read arguments, thought it only works with the launcher. Works perfectly, thanks!
eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Condamor
New Eden Job Department
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 05:11:00 -
[832] - Quote
EvE online is one of those games that is closer to a sandbox than any of its competition can hope to be. Now as much as reading forum rage is entertaining, it is not at all productive. I have read the 779 posts so far on this topic and seen a few interesting ideas and suggestions. Although I want to say 85% of it is just rage and whining. How about we look at the potential pros and cons of this topic and discuss those so that CCP understands our opinions on this topic and can better weigh the risks/advantages of such a mechanic. Please note that saying it will kill eve online sandbox is not a valid point BE SPECIFIC, address the reason as to why in depth enough so that the other side of the discussion can provide an alternative or be more swayed toward your opinion.
As with anything, there are always advantages and disadvantages. Most if not all of disadvantages or flaws can be fixed or avoided with a bit of work.
I agree that an unscannable deadspace pocket is flawed, and tbh it wouldn't be fun at all. I would love to be able to watch these fights and to bet on them. Now the idea has been suggested that it be like a POS bubble but those inside can fight and those outside cannot. The purpose of this would be to prevent outside aid from interfering (remote repair fleets for example), and it should prevent fleet boosts from working. This would effectively level the playing field enough so that it comes down to the players' skill, fits, and implants. Now people are arguing that "well if I can't lock you and shoot you it's against the EVE" well to this I say yes and no. I can see all sorts of potential shiny and loots behind a pos shield but I can't shoot at it unless I take down the POS, or furthermore all those people who ship spin all day long as they horde iskies. Now I'm not against ship spinning as a pastime, but saying Dojos are going to kill EvE or the sandbox, is like saying you are mortally wounded from a paper cut. What this could do is offer an opportunity for fresh PvP pilots to get the feet wet and get a little experience so they can be a little better equipped for High sec PvP (war decs) and Low sec (Piracy), I leave out null because its a whole different ball game out there. Who I see being affected by this the most are those people that do duel bait, the ones who call in logi and use maxed out boosts off grid to get kills. There are a few people who honor the concept of a true 1v1, this system could truly test a pilot's skill and mettle.
Somebody mentioned this being a simulator and or being solely in station, perhaps instead it become something you can warp to like a celestial body or a POCO (CCP can come up with something clever for it) so that people can view the fight and enjoy the spectacle. Secondly everything on tranquility should be subject to destruction so a simulator is not a good idea, if somebody wants to test a fit without losing isk or reputation try singularity. Destruction is one of the driving forces in this game, even if nobody lost ships and just shot at rats all day you still are destroying something and creating a demand for ammunition. Any time I PvP in EvE I get an adrenaline rush because there is that feeling that I could lose the ship that I am in and I don't know how the battle will turn out. Anybody in a corp or alliance together have a certain code and trust that you can do a 1v1 easily, but what this will do is allow two random people to engage each other with no interference from outsiders. Granted I see this system is better suited for High sec because anywhere else you can shoot with no interference from the popo. One of the two people fighting in the Dojo should lose a ship yes, and yes they should need to undock and find their own way to the Dojo. Most people understand losing ships, losing ships because your opponent has loki boosts and guardians is what upsets people.
If they implement this correctly this could have an unprecedented effect on the EvE universe whether it is good or bad is a matter of whose side you are on but its not gonna destroy the "sandbox." When you lose ships you need money to replace them and for most people that means undocking thus making them prone to suicide gankers or war targets. There are some really easy solutions to most of the points brought up against it. You can complain about how wrong it is all you want but if all you do is rage and yell at each other then nobody is going to take you seriously. |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1530
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 05:16:00 -
[833] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:
I do wonder though, does this have a spectator function? Maybe allow people to watch by placing them in cloaked pods or unfit noob ships.
If only Eve was compatible with twitch. Then anybody could watch.
oh, wait
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
eatingbadies
Sleepless Escorts
0
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Posted - 2014.09.27 05:42:00 -
[834] - Quote
I really like the idea of a 125km POS type arena that you could warp to and spectate(or fight each other), with the combatants maybe spawned in or warping in from a pos somewhere.
I actually got a dojo battle to work on duality but I can't get the moveme channel to work, so there's no good way to stock it with everything I need... |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3995
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 07:04:00 -
[835] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Arrendis wrote:Alvatore DiMarco wrote: Those cursed Accords are about as un-EVE as it gets.
Something players build and agree upon between one another is against the spirit of the sandbox? If you don't like B0TLRD, do something about it. Foment unrest. Engage in covert activities designed to undermine them. Claw your way up the ranks in one of the parties to B0TLRD and then tear them to little pieces. I dunno, seems to me complaining about something someone else has wrought, rather than actively trying to blow it up, is the un-EVE activity. Tell yourself that if it makes you feel better. Supporting B0TLRD while complaining about this is hypocritical in the extreme. a player-crafted and player-enforced organisation and a mechanically-enforced system are pretty obviously different concepts regardless of one's opinion on the dojo |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
52
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Posted - 2014.09.27 07:25:00 -
[836] - Quote
I hope this is a joke. CCP realy want add arenas in SANDBOX? With no outside effect?!
So tell me plz, why ppl should fly at 0sec after this change? Here world of space ship come... Button "to battle" become reality.
CCP if you like sandbox, dont ruin it with arenas and battlegrounds! |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 11:33:00 -
[837] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I support this as long as the deployable is destructible without a criminal flag in highsec.
Those who are complaining that this is contrary to the spirit of EVE should also think about B0TLRD. These dojos are basically highsec thunderdomes which, in principle, are exactly what your glorious leaders have chosen to inflict on the game at a much larger scale. Go do something about that if you truly care about the spirit of EVE.
What you mean by the spirit of EVE, competitive and consensual pvp exist in EVE since 2005 and since it's a sandbox there is no lesser gameplay?
Are you comparing AT participants to the nullsec blue donut?
And what's the point if there is no criminal flag, how can we defend against you? See if you go suspect it's interesting for everyone, you get content, I get content but I'm not surprised to see a "true EVE player" that know the true xXx"SPIRIT OF EVE"xXx yet again ask for risk averse pew pew.
How ironic. I have a Ph.D |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 11:40:00 -
[838] - Quote
Captain Semper wrote:I hope this is a joke. CCP realy want add arenas in SANDBOX? With no outside effect?!
So tell me plz, why ppl should fly at 0sec after this change? Here world of space ship come... Button "to battle" become reality.
CCP if you like sandbox, dont ruin it with arenas and battlegrounds!
Why do you fly in nullsec and not lowsec or even highsec? The appeal of nullsec is unique; have your OWN part of space, your name on the map, a space to afk rat in your ishtar, a moon goo network, etc
Dojos won't remove any of this, not only that but it's 5min timer you can join at any time it won't destroy the rest of your gameplay.
I don't understand your thought process (or lack thereof). I have a Ph.D |
Noriko Mai
1539
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 12:34:00 -
[839] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Noriko Mai wrote:All the talk about scannable dojo, reinforce timer, etc... If only one of you would log in on Duality, he/she would see that the "Dojo" is just a mobile depot with the dojo feature attatched to it. It's a prototype of the dojo function. There actualley are exactly zero facts about its stats. It's a freakin mobile depot with huge cargo. Really people.. so mutch shittalk and anger about nothing. But don't let facts interrupt your discussion. (BTW. This is the first real fact since page 32) True, but as it exists now, those are the facts about its stats. They may change in the future, they may not. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVfkYZmXHAg -Æ-ï-¦-+-Ç-ï! -Æ-ï-¦-+-Ç-ï! -Ü-¦-+-¦-+-¦-¦-é-ï - -+-+-¦-+-Ç-ï! | -ô-¦-+-¦-+-¦-¦-+-¦ |
Dreksl
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 12:49:00 -
[840] - Quote
There was once a dream that was Heild.
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