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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Quiggle Queue
POS Party Low-Class
7
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:44:36 -
[61] - Quote
What if null-sec fleets could no longer fleet warp to stargates? The scattered arrival on gates would really hurt the gameplay of fleets navigating systems. It would be silly to do that right?
Thats what you are doing to do to wormholers if we cannot warp to a bookmarked wormhole.
Even if you exclude everything else from fleet warp,.... please allow fleet warps to wormholes. |
Ele Rebellion
Dead Star Syndicate
38
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:45:33 -
[62] - Quote
Lurch Aldent wrote:Sten Taxi wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Multiboxing miners just got tougher, particularly warping out of belt when neut enters system :-s Stations (and other celestials) are still warpable, this only affects poses Don't want to warp to station or a planet when neuts roll through chap.
Just warp to the moon that the POS is on. (still be under the protection of the guns) |
Peter Moonlight
Lazerhawks
160
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:45:46 -
[63] - Quote
Fozzie, you should just do what you are trying to do for a long time, remove w-space totally because every patch didn't go without a single nerf/bug in wspace or a ninja change.
RIP killing ventures,miners, siterunners (hey guys I'm next to them.. oh **** I'm decloaked they all run away) etc.. |
Prince Golem
Perkone Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:46:22 -
[64] - Quote
This affects a lot of people. If you go ahead with this change please enable people that would normally warp the Fleet/wing/squad to warp to a broadcasted place in space e.g. bookmark/probe result. Thereby allowing the fleet to warp to these places. Sounds like a good compromise, I hope. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3327
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:47:55 -
[65] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Doing this without implementing alliance bookmarks first is a huge mistake. I beg you to reconsider. how would that help? you can't warp a fleet of corpmates to corp bookmarks either after the change. You have to send a scout first.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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dexter xio
TURN LEFT
99
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:48:09 -
[66] - Quote
thanks fozzie
NOFUN Diplomat xd
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Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:48:28 -
[67] - Quote
Lurch Aldent wrote:Sten Taxi wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Multiboxing miners just got tougher, particularly warping out of belt when neut enters system :-s Stations (and other celestials) are still warpable, this only affects poses Don't want to warp to station or a planet when neuts roll through chap.
If you have a booster (Orca or Rorq) sitting in POS you can warp to them. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1356
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:49:20 -
[68] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Just a note:
as i skimmed the htread i saw comments like "omg this terrible" or "this will kill xxx" you do know that none of this will make them change anything as that type of feed back is not very constructive. If you really want them to take notice, your best bet is to explain, in a calm manner and with as much detail as possible, why this will hurt XXX. you will have a higher chance of ccp going 'oh.. we did not think of that, right lets modify this' then just whining.
Personally, i can see what they are doing with having it so a scout will need to be in place for the others to warp to. and as i actually used to do things this way for years it does;t bother me (for some odd reason i would always forget fleet warp with my atls)
One thing that will be slightly annoying, is the lack of ability to fleet warp to corp book marks. As every member of the corp can see these, and as they can then warp to them on there, this sounds a bit counter intuitive to the 'everyone in the fleet must be able to warp to it on there own to use it' It would make better sense that if you are in a corp and have corp bm's you can fleet warp to it. outside of the corp you can't. Besides that, this will make a scout actually useful.
i'm good with this.
>It craps all over WHers. >it makes probers LESS relevant because they are now less useful >I suppose it does crap up multi box missioners. They were a true scourge. >see comments about getting booters.
This runs a train over a great deal, the 'gain' is wishywashy at best and the 'problem' being fixed is unclear and unstated. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
805
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:49:53 -
[69] - Quote
tldr: hope you like doing things with alts or solo
Here is my list of things you can no longer warp to in a fleet without a scout in position. This is just one more account to run by FCs, who alternately have to be SURE they are reliable and are actually there every time. So scout ahead to see enemies coming, and scout JUST ahead of the fleet, WAITING for people to actually warp to him. usually at the wrong range.
I think it's terrible because telling a newbie how to warp to a person is painful. And getting him to pick the right range is even worse if it's not at zero. It encourages scouts, yes, but it also just slows down and makes game play more complicated.
Due to bookmarks: - perches - Pipe bombing just got easier as perches get used less. - insta-docking locations - For those vulnerable dread fleets who bump when landing - POS shields - either edge or inside, everyone could warp to the moon instead but just longer they are on field - Jump bridges - - Wormholes home - Miners going to the same place in a belt - Multibox miners warping OUT of the belt unless going to a station (who does that?!)
Due to probing: - Bomb targets (RIP Bombing without a wreck target or near a celestial) - Attack sites done as a group - Relic hunting as a group - Anyone with two warp core stabs not near an object (unless dictor probing) - Pretty much everything in wormholes. - Snipers - Petes - Boosters
Deadspace items - Escalation sites that don't have a warp gate - Mission running as a group unless they can tank initial aggro for a minute - salvage spots for newbies, unless you drop a bookmark in a can.
Hooray CCP, let's make our already difficult game more difficult for newbies! I mean, that's been the problem all along, eve is too easy. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2198
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:49:58 -
[70] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Altrue wrote:Doing this without implementing alliance bookmarks first is a huge mistake. I beg you to reconsider. how would that help? you can't warp a fleet of corpmates to corp bookmarks either after the change. You have to send a scout first.
Yes thats the part i don't like. if the corp has the bm you shoudl eb able to fleet warp your corp mates. if they are out of corp, copy the bm or send a scout
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3468
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:50:15 -
[71] - Quote
Are we really going to have change after change after change that do nothing but make the game a little bit more irritating to play? |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
545
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:50:38 -
[72] - Quote
The removal of warping to probes is daft. It removes a dynamic in fleet combat.
Please give the small/micro gang elite pvp jerks their arena to go fight in and stop buggering up strategic fleet warfare. While your at it, put decloaking back on bombers. Would solve most of the problems you're trying to solve by removing useful/interesting mechanics. |
Quiggle Queue
POS Party Low-Class
7
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:51:04 -
[73] - Quote
I'm getting ready to macro a teamspeak recording of a voice saying.... THREE, TWO, ONE.... WARP! |
Teebeutel
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:51:30 -
[74] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Sten Taxi wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Multiboxing miners just got tougher, particularly warping out of belt when neut enters system :-s Stations (and other celestials) are still warpable, this only affects poses Don't want to warp to station or a planet when neuts roll through chap. If you have a booster (Orca or Rorq) sitting in POS you can warp to them. The booster would be on the outside of the POS shield though, so it would be kindof dangerous to warp your no-propmod mining ships there. Unless your POS has teeth that is, in which case it's less dangerous but still a risk. |
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
154
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:51:44 -
[75] - Quote
Thanks, looking forward to this change.
ATXI winner, 3rd place ATXII - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
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Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
5
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:52:33 -
[76] - Quote
Terrible change.
Would easily cut a huge chunk of fights out of wormholes. Large majority of fights and catching people with their pants down.
Lets say you see a golem with wrecks on d-scan, but after d-scanning a bit, you determine he is in a relic or data. You have to drop probes and combat him down, so they they are on HIS d-scan for at a minimum of about 10 seconds. This is usually followed by slinging fast tackle like a sabre ontop of him. Removing this leaves two options, try and take tackle with your covert op and pray you don't get volleyed by sleepers or him, or try and take tackle in a scan/tackle heavy t3. While the t3 can hold it, it warps considerable slower than the sabre or covops and the target can easily be out by then if he was looking at his d-scan. Plus, with the introduction to those frigate holes, frigate sized scanners are way more commonplace.
By the time you have additional tackle on grid you've already expended a whole minute of warping and the target is gone. Time is absolutely imporntant here.
Then there is bookmarks.
If you are trying to get your battleships to land on grid with your cruisers now, even triage, good luck and have fun having the enemy pick stragglers off.
Oh, and good luck catching any kite fleet ever. |
Streya Jormagdnir
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
354
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:52:46 -
[77] - Quote
This is quite honestly a pretty negative change that will severely impact fleet coordination. As part of a wormhole PvP alliance (which relies solely on bookmarks to navigate to wormholes, which is where most fights happen), this is going to require another alt or tie up one more fleet member to be warp-to. Don't get me wrong, this is just more job security for me as an over caffeinated inty pilot. Siterunners won't be able to rely on their FC to warp them to safety at the first sign of danger and will have to warp themselves, which might add to the burnout factor given how excruciatingly boring most PvE is IMHO. I can't really comment on the impact it will have on kspace since I haven't really participated in kspace pvp for the past two years, but as others have noted bomber wings will also suffer.
I see more cons than pros. My corp probably won't suffer too badly given that we typically field small squads where we warp to each other anyway, but I can't help but wonder what impact this will have on the wider EVE community. I suspect if the proposed changes go through we'll see fleets organized a bit more organically, with a "target calling FC" and "navigation FC", etc.
I am also a human, straggling between the present world... and our future. I am a regulator, a coordinator, one who is meant to guide the way.
Destination Unreachable: the worst Wspace blog ever
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Quiggle Queue
POS Party Low-Class
7
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:53:54 -
[78] - Quote
Even if we all have a known corp bookmark populated, we cannot throttle our warp-speed to match our fleet mates, even if we all manually warp ourselves. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1801
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:54:36 -
[79] - Quote
Alright so, since we will now have to have someone warp to something he combat probes before the fleet can warp on top of that someone, I hereby request a new probe button:
Center probes on self
After all, combat probing is taking a huge nerf so this wouldn't be OP at all, and it would definitely remove some of the frustration about probing.
Pretty please?
EDIT: Don't forget to implement alliance bookmarks in Aegis, I never hurts to repeat it, there is no reason why corporations fleeting together should be penalizde.
And a short refresh / cache delay about corp bookmarks would be appreciated, as well as some consistency in the way the information is spread out (some people have their bookmarks refreshed earlier than others depending off their last right clic, that is stupid)
I would also appreciate a confirmation warning if some members of a fleet are unable to follow the fleet warp I am about to initiate.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Kazi Kugisa
EVE University Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:54:53 -
[80] - Quote
This is a hell of a nerf to more than a few NPSI fleet battles. Corp bookmarks aren't even an option there. Puts them at a big disadvantage at times.
Not really anything I personally like about this. Speaking for myself only and not my corp in any way, this makes teaching newbies much more difficult than it should be. This change isn't well thought out for the growth of the game. |
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Quiggle Queue
POS Party Low-Class
7
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:55:28 -
[81] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Bienator II wrote:Altrue wrote:Doing this without implementing alliance bookmarks first is a huge mistake. I beg you to reconsider. how would that help? you can't warp a fleet of corpmates to corp bookmarks either after the change. You have to send a scout first. Yes thats the part i don't like. if the corp has the bm you shoudl eb able to fleet warp your corp mates. if they are out of corp, copy the bm or send a scout
The delay in the corp bookmark populating should be a fair waiting period to quality for fleet warps. This way we can still warp to our wormholes we have pre-bookmarked, just like null-sec people warp to gates together. |
Elona Solette
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
15
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:55:34 -
[82] - Quote
I can understand that this nerfs bombers a bit, whatever .... meh
But, making it more difficult for non-cloaked fleets to find a fleet in system and get on top if it appears counter productive.
I'm not sure how gameplay is made more immersive by making things like being able to probe a fleet down and get your fleet engaged way way more tedious.
Really does feel like in an attempt to making bombing harder (probably not a bad thing) that stuff that is already a bit tricky has become much more painful. |
Iyokus Patrouette
Sudden Buggery Prolapse.
503
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:55:43 -
[83] - Quote
Combining this change with the warp speed changes i think the amount of frigates and destroyers landing and getting blapped while Logistics and other heavier assets are still dreaming about landing on grid is going to be terrible. . unless i am doing the blapping then it might be highly amusing.
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----
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Quiggle Queue
POS Party Low-Class
7
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:56:25 -
[84] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:Combining this change with the warp speed changes i think the amount of frigates and destroyers landing and getting blapped while Logistics and other heavier assets are still dreaming about landing on grid is going to be terrible. . unless i am doing the blapping then it might be highly amusing.
Agreed, even the most diligent timed warp, will fail unless everyone has the same size engine :( |
Syndra Silverwolf
Isogen 5
0
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:57:02 -
[85] - Quote
Teebeutel wrote:I dont see the problem that a lot of people seem to see for wormhole fleets, using corp bookmarks and having fleet members warp to those individually should do just fine.
Not only do you have to hope all the BMS propagated for your members, but also have fun warping to a hostile hole piecemeal in a 10-20man t3 fleet and then waiting another 30+ seconds for your triage to land. |
Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation Warlords of the Deep
545
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:57:24 -
[86] - Quote
CCP I love you. This change is so elegant, and wonderful at fixing so many problems. As a small gang pilot, and PvPer I could not be happier! Its going to be so much more interesting now fighting a blob that no longer has the ability to drop all of their ships on me (at zero) over and over again.
Thank you for bringing piloting, actual skill and situational awareness back into the game.
For those of you that are complaining, I only have this to say: Spend less time whining on the forums, and perhaps learn how to actually PvP and fly your ships?
These changes (Along with the HML and BC stuff) made my entire week.
Made props CCP- its incredible. I am so excited for this, along with fozzie sov! |
Aebe Amraen
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
125
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:58:39 -
[87] - Quote
Teebeutel wrote:Aebe Amraen wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Sten Taxi wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Multiboxing miners just got tougher, particularly warping out of belt when neut enters system :-s Stations (and other celestials) are still warpable, this only affects poses Don't want to warp to station or a planet when neuts roll through chap. If you have a booster (Orca or Rorq) sitting in POS you can warp to them. The booster would be on the outside of the POS shield though, so it would be kindof dangerous to warp your no-propmod mining ships there. Unless your POS has teeth that is, in which case it's less dangerous but still a risk.
Mining boosts can be (and are) run from inside POSes. Rorquals and Orcas don't sit outside the POS shields to boost. |
islador
Antigen.
37
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:58:55 -
[88] - Quote
From the perspective of a small to mid-size gang FC, this change will have a single effect on my tactics: Roughly an 100% increase in the amount of time it takes me to offensively re-position my fleet.
That is because instead of scanning a target and using my alt to warp the fleet to that target, I will instead warp my alt to the target and then warp the fleet to my alt, thus paying the warp time cost twice.
Tacticals and other common bookmark warp tos will receive a lesser penalty since I can order a ceptor to warp or burn there and warp the fleet to that ceptor. Where as combat scanning requires the longevity and surprise of a cloaked vessel to often be viable.
At the end of the day, I won't be having my pilots warp themselves to someone or something more often than I already do. I'll simply be taking longer to warp the fleet to a target. The primary reason for that is it is tactically unwise to have your fleet land in any manner other than perfectly together. So I am willing to be slower to avoid arriving piece-meal in most situations.
In short; this change will make the FC work harder to mitigate game mechanics while failing to accomplish the stated goal of getting line members more involved. Shoveling more load onto the FCs, the dominant content creators in the game, is a bad move in my opinion.
If CCP wants to see line members doing more of their own warping, then CCP needs to find a way to make individual warps better than fleet warps. This could be accomplished in a number of ways;
- Slow down fleet warps dramatically. Such that using a fleet warp will almost always result in the position being worthless upon arrival.
- Make fleet warps consume capacitor in excess of the amount when solo. Perhaps such that small gangs could fleet warp and retain combat effectiveness but large gangs/fleets cannot.
- Make individual warps impart speed on exit, such that small ships exit warp at 'combat velocity'
- Make ships warping individually no longer appear on dscan
Do be aware that many of these ideas are terrible. |
Quiggle Queue
POS Party Low-Class
7
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:59:08 -
[89] - Quote
Syndra Silverwolf wrote:Teebeutel wrote:I dont see the problem that a lot of people seem to see for wormhole fleets, using corp bookmarks and having fleet members warp to those individually should do just fine. Not only do you have to hope all the BMS propagated for your members, but also have fun warping to a hostile hole piecemeal in a 10-20man t3 fleet and then waiting another 30+ seconds for your triage to land.
All the tackle will be destroyed, since they warp too fast.
I guess we will need a hyperspacial velocity de-optimizer, to slow our frigates down! |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
231
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Posted - 2015.06.11 22:59:18 -
[90] - Quote
Aebe Amraen wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Sten Taxi wrote:Lurch Aldent wrote:Multiboxing miners just got tougher, particularly warping out of belt when neut enters system :-s Stations (and other celestials) are still warpable, this only affects poses Don't want to warp to station or a planet when neuts roll through chap. If you have a booster (Orca or Rorq) sitting in POS you can warp to them.
Dammit, it would have taken them 4 more days to figure that out....thanks for screwing it up for everyone :) |
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