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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:48:06 -
[571] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms. Fine. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their signature.
warp gates..... do you eve?
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1364
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:50:12 -
[572] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site.
Moving a fleet through a wormhole chain in a cohesive manner WITHOUT needing to put a scout on EVERY bookmark first.
Tell me why delaying movement like this is good gameplay addition...when the ******* "problem" is (allegedly) bombers. |
Dwaigon Aumer
The Bastards The Bastards.
16
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:50:33 -
[573] - Quote
I normally don't involve in changes, but i'll make an exception for this one.
This:
Caldari 5 wrote:This change hurts small gang, more than it does large gang/fleet, mostly due to the number of bodies available to try and get warp ins with.
When you only have a fleet of 10 or so guys having 3 or more guys trying to get warp-ins is large percentage of your potential DPS doing nothing. Yet if you have a fleet of 50 or more guys, having 4 or more guys trying to get warp-ins it is much less of an issue.
Also it hurts explorer hunters, now they actually have to use their alt for combat and exposing themselfs. If you have to probe, warp at 10km, then warp your main on top the chances that the target is gone is way to much.
Possible solutions are:
- Allow squad warp to probes, bookmarks etc.
- When fleet warping, make every member confirm it (when a member confirms, he starts to warp).
The Bastards. Technical / Security Director
http://www.the-bastards.net
Minmatar FTW!!
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:54:00 -
[574] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms. Fine. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their signature. warp gates..... do you eve? wat
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:54:59 -
[575] - Quote
Dwaigon Aumer wrote:I normally don't involve in changes, but i'll make an exception for this one. This: Caldari 5 wrote:This change hurts small gang, more than it does large gang/fleet, mostly due to the number of bodies available to try and get warp ins with.
When you only have a fleet of 10 or so guys having 3 or more guys trying to get warp-ins is large percentage of your potential DPS doing nothing. Yet if you have a fleet of 50 or more guys, having 4 or more guys trying to get warp-ins it is much less of an issue. Also it hurts explorer hunters, now they actually have to use their alt for combat and exposing themselfs. If you have to probe, warp at 10km, then warp your main on top the chances that the target is gone is way to much. Possible solutions are:
- Allow squad warp to probes, bookmarks etc.
- When fleet warping, make every member confirm it (when a member confirms, he starts to warp).
Yeah, I tend to agree. This will hurt smaller groups much more than blobs. Allowing this at squad level would be much better I think.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:56:32 -
[576] - Quote
Wait what sites are you talking about? Relics? You need a fleet to catch a cov ops? |
Valkin Mordirc
1106
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:59:18 -
[577] - Quote
Well Amarr is completely filled with Scanner Probes in Protest.... Probtest.. HA.
Anyways.
http://gyazo.com/29f6373b25b4f8de2210c4c7734ed8d0
#DeleteTheWeak
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Bertral
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.06.12 09:59:48 -
[578] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote: The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation [...]
So the change to make would be the opposite : allow fleet warp only on unknown locations (boomarks, probed ships) and disallow fleet warps when fleet members can just warp themselves.
You are nerfing interesting gameplay (repositioning) while still allowing the "autopilot" part of fleet warping.
In the o7 show, CCP Fozzie (I think) compared the these changes with the drone assist nerf. (It is no longer possible to have 200 drone boats controlled by one trigger.) However, these fleet warp changes would be like allowing the 200 ishtars to assist a proteus, but disallowing drone assist for small gangs (you would need to have at lest 50 drones assisted to one ship for the trigger to work).
I just don't see why you consider autopiloting interesting, and why you consider combat probing an issue. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:00:00 -
[579] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:Wait what sites are you talking about? Relics? You need a fleet to catch a cov ops? Combat signatures and escalations. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Cosmic_Signatures#Combat_Sites You already need to be lucky to catch them because all they have to do is warp out when they see combat probes.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
682
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:00:49 -
[580] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms.
You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet?
BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:04:34 -
[581] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms. You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet? Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:05:18 -
[582] - Quote
If I remember correctly 99% of combat sites have a warp gate, in null sec what you can catch now with fleet warp you will be able to catch with a solo tackle as well. Who waits around in a site when local spikes?
Escalations I have no clue about, I think those have no warp gates but you would have to use combat probes, and if they don't get out of the place while there is a person in local and combats pop out even for 15 seconds, then you will catch again with or without fleet warps.
The only valid argument so far for this change being bad is the off grid booster that needs near perfect scanner to find.
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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
278
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:05:25 -
[583] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Come up with some truly rewarding roles for people in fleets. As it is, you keep multiplying the number of thankless roles that are best done on an alt - because your business strategy seems to be to squeeze as much out of the existing humans as possible
There are already potential roles in fleets that could be rewarding to fulfill. The problem is that supposed "fleet commanders" are control freaks who insist on doing just about everything themselves. Unfortunately, there are mechanics that such control freaks can lean on that make it possible for them to control a fleet they are also commanding. And, the more effective those mechanics are for exerting control over a fleet, the less necessary the actual players become. (Hence, alts.)
It's called "command AND control". They are differentiated for a reason. An FC really has no business warping anyone anywhere. That's the job of the fleet controllers, fleet controllers like, say, a ship's captain, an aircraft pilot, a squad leader, a gunner, etc.
Removing the ability of a control freak to control your ship means that you have to control your own ship. Let me reiterate: removing the ability of a control freak to play EVE for you means that you have to play EVE yourself.
What is the objection? |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 10:06:33 -
[584] - Quote
Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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HiddenPorpoise
Expendable Miscreants
357
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:07:07 -
[585] - Quote
Zloco Crendraven wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms. You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet? With this the prober has to be the tackle unless you want to announce your intent or exclusively use recons. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
662
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:07:29 -
[586] - Quote
A quick analysis ... if I recall all the fleets I participated (low, null, WH, big, small, cloaky), this change would have made no difference. Within NPSI we are used to have scouts, probers, fleet members to give warp-ins and distribute bookmarks.
What I do see as a major problem (as others), catching OGBs and fleets cruising on a safe will be impossible with this change. That's not good.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
130
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:07:30 -
[587] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Rowells wrote:RIP Bomber wings You'll still be able to use them, but this will slow the speed at which they usually hit their targets. We consider that a very good outcome.
I would consider you not working for CCP if you're going to make these kind of choices a very good outcome, when are we getting the outcome we want?
Terrible design choice, ruins far too many things and just slows EVE down, PvP is supposed to be fast paced but you guys seem to have lost touch with this, Fozzie, when was the last time you actually played the game? |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
662
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:09:31 -
[588] - Quote
HiddenPorpoise wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms. You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet? With this the prober has to be the tackle unless you want to announce your intent or exclusively use recons. Yes, and this is fine ... remember a prober to scan sites needs much less skills than a combat prober.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:10:40 -
[589] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:If I remember correctly 99% of combat sites have a warp gate, in null sec what you can catch now with fleet warp you will be able to catch with a solo tackle as well. Who waits around in a site when local spikes? Escalations I have no clue about, I think those have no warp gates but you would have to use combat probes, and if they don't get out of the place while there is a person in local and combats pop out even for 15 seconds, then you will catch again with or without fleet warps. The only valid argument so far for this change being bad is the off grid booster that needs near perfect scanner to find. It is just not true. There are plenty of occasions right now when the timing is extremely close and they are leaving just as I land. Other times I catch them. It wouldn't be remotely close after the change.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Oddsodz
The Ministry of Ungentlemanly Warfare. A Band Apart.
155
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:12:08 -
[590] - Quote
I Wonder how much this change with make to catching supers in lowsec? Think about it,. That nasty Doomsday just hit your fleets dreadnought. Then it just warped of. Ok lets get a prober out and a hic. Can you guess the out come? I know I can. and it will not end in a dead super. |
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Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
8
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:13:35 -
[591] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle.
I am really confused, trying really hard to see why this is bad for you.
You have a prober - check You got lock on a sig - check You warp your cov ops to the sig - check You warp with your combat ship to your scanner - check
What am I missing? |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
140
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:14:13 -
[592] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:I Wonder how much this change will make to catching supers in lowsec? Think about it,. That nasty Doomsday just hit your fleets dreadnought. Then it just warped off. Ok lets get a prober out and a hic. We have 10 minutes to find it. It can't cloak and it can't jump. Can you guess the out come? I know I can. And it will not end in a dead super.
You clearly don't know how to fit an onyx. |
xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers
277
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:15:41 -
[593] - Quote
replacing a bookmark with a player. not sure how this is a bad thing. |
Amy Summers
Fierce Ice
3
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:15:52 -
[594] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote: Q: CCP, why you do this? A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members.
While I think this is a good goal to try to achieve, this change isn't gonna do it. My prediction of what will happen is as follows.
A fleet will now need some quick small (cloaky) ships to provide warp-ins for the fleet. When they have these the game remains the same, bad stuff about to land on your kitey stuff? Warp to one of the small ships at a perch. It'll probably even make it easier for the average linemember since they can now just align to a fleet member instead of some obscure location the FC has a bookmark at.
Who will be flying those small ships? - Random linemember alt. - The poor guys who get picked to stay ahead of the fleet and do nothing else instead of flying dps or logi. Fun! - FC alts. Cause those guys don't have enough to do anyway.
The bottom line is that what you're trying to achieve here just isn't going to happen or forces people into boring roles. The only thing that will work is killing combat probing but only to an extend that it makes things a little slower which is good.
My suggestion: Keep the warping to bookmarks but remove warping to scan results. |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:18:00 -
[595] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle. I am really confused, trying really hard to see why this is bad for you. You have a prober - check You got lock on a sig - check You warp your cov ops to the sig - check You warp with your combat ship to your scanner - check What am I missing? It will take an extra 20 seconds when the timing is already extremely tight right now.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16137
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:19:22 -
[596] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle.
They used to be used for tackle before we got the fleet commands. It worked well then and it will work well now.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Hudson EVE
Rubbish
0
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:21:12 -
[597] - Quote
Dislike this change.
Serious fleets will ban noobs; Losing chance to gain skirmish exp. |
Dwaigon Aumer
The Bastards The Bastards.
17
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:26:07 -
[598] - Quote
Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle. I am really confused, trying really hard to see why this is bad for you. You have a prober - check You got lock on a sig - check You warp your cov ops to the sig - check You warp with your combat ship to your scanner - check What am I missing? When i probe i now fleet warp my inty on them, even if they saw the probes in scan and they aren't aligned i catch them. With this change by the time my alt is in the sig and i have to warp my inty to my alt the target is long gone.
The Bastards. Technical / Security Director
http://www.the-bastards.net
Minmatar FTW!!
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Sasha Sen
Hull Zero Two Reckoning Star Alliance
9
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:26:15 -
[599] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Seems that this is actually reducing the specialised role of a prober rather than increasing it. I currently use a dedicated prober in a covops (you know, a probing ship) and they warp my cruiser onto targets. If the prober has to tackle then the fit will have to be enormously gimped. And why? That's the whole point of them - to probe, not to tackle. I am really confused, trying really hard to see why this is bad for you. You have a prober - check You got lock on a sig - check You warp your cov ops to the sig - check You warp with your combat ship to your scanner - check What am I missing? It will take an extra 20 seconds when the timing is already extremely tight right now.
Prescan the site. Adapt.
The only way you catch anyone is if they stay right at the beacon after they warp in, assuming they are in the first pocket. You really want to squeeze the poor fresh eve players that much? cant give them a 20 second headstart?
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Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
682
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Posted - 2015.06.12 10:26:41 -
[600] - Quote
Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:Sasha Sen wrote:Zappity wrote:Zloco Crendraven wrote:When BALEX as a corp roams (10-15 ppl) max we always have min 5 alts in the fleet, be it links, or probers/scouts. We move around lowsec trough WH a lot. When we move around we always use scout warp ins, so where is the problem?
Name one situation where scouts can't handle it. Tackling a nullbear before they leave their site. Fleet warps work to anoms. You cant tackle it with a prober and be a warp in for rest of the fleet? Yeah, this is the alternative. Care to suggest any fits for probing bonused ships that would survive even 20 seconds of drone DPS? You need an expanded launcher.
Any cloaky scanner. Just stay near him and get warp in for the fleet. It adds 30 sec to the practice that is actual now. Or use any reacon or T3 as heavy tacklers.
BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
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