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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Texty
State War Academy Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:31:14 -
[271] - Quote
VENUS XY wrote: No one will want to fly a useless probing ship and not get on any killmails,
You're right. Kill mails must die.
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1167
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:33:46 -
[272] - Quote
Crazy Candy wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:Budrick3 wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:+1 this is a excellent change that will help to open up combat/fleet tactics. I supported and pushed hard for this. Good luck getting re-elected. I am not a politician. I am not here to kiss anyones ass. If I run and I don't get re-elected so be it. I support measures , mchanics , changes that will make eve more exciting more dynamic more balanced and more deadly. Destruction is the lifeblood of Eve. Nearly every profession and activity in Eve is fueled by things exploding. More explosions means people in space doing things playing the game. More interaction which is the foundation of a MMORPG. I'LL GIVE YOU DEATH AND YOU WILL LOVE ME FOR IT. have fun when major FCs quit because the dont want to juggle more accounts than they already do or when aspiring FCs don't want to try because they aren't space rich to own multiple accounts good **** dude
Maybe just maybe you can get dudes in your alliance to help scout and probe instead of doing it all yourself. Crazy Idea I know ( using teamwork and all that crazy whippity dippity stuff).
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1167
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:37:45 -
[273] - Quote
Pyralissa wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:I am not a politician. I am not here to kiss anyones ass. If I run and I don't get re-elected so be it. I support measures , mchanics , changes that will make eve more exciting more dynamic more balanced and more deadly. Destruction is the lifeblood of Eve. Nearly every profession and activity in Eve is fueled by things exploding. More explosions means people in space doing things playing the game. More interaction which is the foundation of a MMORPG.
I'LL GIVE YOU DEATH AND YOU WILL LOVE ME FOR IT. You are not a politician, but you sure talk like one. You're asked to explain why you think this change is good for the game and you offer a bunch of nonsense platitudes by way of response. How does this lead to "more explosions"? It makes Slippery Petes, the most cowardly block-level doctrine in the game, almost impossible to engage. It reduces the power of bombers, literally the most 'explosive' ship in the game. It makes combat probing more difficult, meaning that kiting shoot-and-run tactics (Garmur and Orthrus pilots will love this change) even more powerful because they can obliterate tackle, roll safes and be assured that they'll never have to worry about being outnumbered when the counter-attack comes. And of course it makes life more tedious, boring and unnecessarily difficult for wormholers, explorers and mission runners. Who it will benefit, especially once alliance bookmarks are deployed, is tightly nit organizations composed of single alliances that frequently engage coalition fleets composed of multiple alliances, who will still have to come up with annoying work arounds. You've championed a change that benefits cowards, hinders literally every facet of the benefit of the game all for the benefit of making bombing slightly more difficult. Well done, you really should consider running for office.
FWIW I am pushing to see unprobeableGäó ships destroyed as a thing forever. I have suggested to CCP that they limit 1 eccm per ship hull. But however allow people to fit as many remote eccm's as they want. That way you could still achieve really high sensor strength. However you would first have to land , lock , activate the module. During this time those ships are all very probeable.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Lyra Gerie
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
49
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:38:57 -
[274] - Quote
I like this change as much as I hate it. I love the idea of individuals being more responsible, but it KILLS quality of living at the same time. Unfortunately the two are fairly closely linked.
This issue goes double in wormholes where bookmarks are used almost more often for logistics than killing or fleet fights.
Perhaps a new deployable anchors and or anchor probes?
An anchor probe would show up on D-scan when launched at a 100% signal before showing on grid. They would have a warp of 4.5 AU/s and EHP around 10-25k depending on meta level and balance. After landing on grid it would auto deploy over 5-15 seconds again based on meta level and balance.
The attackers can now still warp to a target however it gives the target fair warning and time to destroy the probe before the scouts fleet can warp in.
As for deployable anchors they would stay in space for a certain amount of time or require some kind of fuel to stay anchored. There could be those that are short term used in single battles, or long term/more global anchors.
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Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1167
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:39:16 -
[275] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Kujun Nashja wrote:Now remove anchoring, fleet warps in general and drone assist an we are golden. Oh god the chaos of large fleet battles with everyone piloting instead of anchoring. I love it.
IKR
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2483
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:40:03 -
[276] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote: I had the emphasis on new players and FCs for a reason. But sure, making the game harder and more boring is an improvement correct?
Emphasis on newer FC's for what reason? You say it makes it harder for them, when in reality it's a false requirement you are imagining.
And you may say 'hard' and 'boring', where someone else might say 'interesting' and 'fun'. Who needs good pilots in ships putting their skills on the line when you have an FC with probes and an F1 button? |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
87
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:40:18 -
[277] - Quote
I'm not really sure what the intended consequences of this change are meant to be. If it is to hurt bomber wings, then I don't really see it achieving that, as bomber wings can still just warp individually to a corp bookmark.
If the effect is to make probers have more to do, then I guess it will achieve that, as they will have to warp to the target which they just probed down, whereas before they could just fleet warp the squad. So in effect this is a nerf to combat probing; I didn't realise that was required.
Other than annoying mission runners and wormholers, I'm not sure what else this will practically achieve, although it is pretty late so hopefully the wisdom of this decision will become apparent tomorrow morning. *chuckles* |
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
288
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:40:56 -
[278] - Quote
I'll vote for you Manny. GÖÑ
Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
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Xavier Thorm
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
149
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:41:06 -
[279] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Xavier Thorm wrote:Kujun Nashja wrote:Now remove anchoring, fleet warps in general and drone assist an we are golden. Oh god the chaos of large fleet battles with everyone piloting instead of anchoring. I love it. IKR
Then we'd just need collision damage . |
Winter Archipelago
Furtherance.
374
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:41:31 -
[280] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: Maybe just maybe you can get dudes in your alliance to help scout and probe instead of doing it all yourself. Crazy Idea I know ( using teamwork and all that crazy whippity dippity stuff).
What about smaller groups? Groups that don't have thousands of people? Who don't even have hundreds? What about when you're in fleets of 6-8 people (and fewer)? Do we have to now dedicate someone to probing? Are we to be limited to D3's and T3's so each person can fit both a probe launcher and their combat fit? Does the answer once again become "use an alt?"
Large nullsec groups aren't the only players out there, and not everybody wants to be just another F1-pusher, or just another number in a TIDI slug-fest. This change affects everybody, but it doesn't affect everybody equally.
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the channels EVE-Scout or Furtherance Public and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Foodpimp
xHELLonEARTHx Against ALL Authorities
190
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:41:54 -
[281] - Quote
Well....I am displeased.... |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1167
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:41:57 -
[282] - Quote
Lyra Gerie wrote:I like this change as much as I hate it. I love the idea of individuals being more responsible, but it KILLS quality of living at the same time. Unfortunately the two are fairly closely linked.
This issue goes double in wormholes where bookmarks are used almost more often for logistics than killing or fleet fights.
Perhaps a new deployable anchors and or anchor probes?
An anchor probe would show up on D-scan when launched at a 100% signal before showing on grid. They would have a warp of 4.5 AU/s and EHP around 10-25k depending on meta level and balance. After landing on grid it would auto deploy over 5-15 seconds again based on meta level and balance.
The attackers can now still warp to a target however it gives the target fair warning and time to destroy the probe before the scouts fleet can warp in.
As for deployable anchors they would stay in space for a certain amount of time or require some kind of fuel to stay anchored. There could be those that are short term used in single battles, or long term/more global anchors.
So the guy in the wormhole warps to the bookmark and WWWWWW's up. Then everyone gets fleet warped OMG THE TRAVESTY THAT THOSE EXTRA FEW SECONDS WILL CREATE. THINK OF ALL THE BELLY LENT YOU COULD HAVE PICKED IN THOSE FEW PRECIOUS SECONDS. DAMN YOU CCP DAMN YOU!!!!!!!111ON1E
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Angelic Tallbrooke
Redemption Road Affirmative.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:43:18 -
[283] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Budrick3 wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote:+1 this is a excellent change that will help to open up combat/fleet tactics. I supported and pushed hard for this. Good luck getting re-elected. I am not a politician. I am not here to kiss anyones ass. If I run and I don't get re-elected so be it. I support measures , mchanics , changes that will make eve more exciting more dynamic more balanced and more deadly. Destruction is the lifeblood of Eve. Nearly every profession and activity in Eve is fueled by things exploding. More explosions means people in space doing things playing the game. More interaction which is the foundation of a MMORPG. I'LL GIVE YOU DEATH AND YOU WILL LOVE ME FOR IT.
I have a feeling that this is going to get a lot of criticism because it changes the major game mechanics that we have all grown to love. Could be interesting.
I also have a feeling that this is going to make FC'ing for public fleets (which is what groups like Bomber's Bar, Redemption Road, Spectre Fleet, and pretty much any NPSI group) an absolute pain in the rear end as far as maneuverability goes. Fleet warping across already-scouted systems will be easy, since nothing is going to change, but it's really going to make running from other fleets a lot harder when you have stuff in front of you. And disabling scouts by forcing them to sit at tacticals for people to warp to/for the FC to warp to.
Example: Say you have a group of 30 T1 & T2 frigates/dessies roaming Curse/Catch/Provi. At any given time, your scouts could report that there's a drag bubble on a gate. Previously, you could warp the entire fleet to a ping off the gate. Now, you either have to get a "public warpin" that may or may not be aligned with the bubble, your scout has to do more work (and thus giving your fleet less information) in finding a "publicly-available" un-aligned celestial body OR sitting there for the whole fleet to individually warp to. That's easily fixed by the players.
But let's say, the same fleet gets intel from a +1 scout that an enemy gang of 50 T3 cruisers just jumped into system and is warping to the other side of the gate that you're sitting on. In the current system, an FC would simply warp their fleet up to a tactical and wait out the gang. In the proposed fleet warping situation, either we need more scouts (which are spread out farther, for a better information network) or we sit at tacticals all the time. Then, each fleet member needs to individually warp up to a "tactical holder" player. I know under the current system, as a new FC, I've been able to save fleets from a firey death at the hands of a PL T3 gang by simply fleet warping everyone up to a tactical seconds before a bubble managed to go up on the gate by a sabre.
It's much more complicated, and it makes a coordinated FC agressor able to take out unprepared fleet members. I kind of like it because the entire fleet needs to pay attention, not just the FC, but it does raise some questions about the new player experience and how "fast" a newbro can actually get into fleet battles. This encourages every member of a fleet to be on their toes, paying attention to recon, and I like that idea. But with extended ops, I feel like this might prove a hassle. Guess we'll just have to see where the meta of fleets swing with this new change. |
Warmeister
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:43:37 -
[284] - Quote
i think CCP should implement this change slightly differently. instead of not allowing fleet warp at all, they should make sure that only those who can warp to the particular object themselves, will enter warp, the rest of the fleet stays.
so with corp bookmarks - only members of the corp would warp, with scan results - only the prober etc. this would make for far more interesting game play, although i suspect will be much harder on resources to determine who can and cannot warp. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1167
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:43:45 -
[285] - Quote
Winter Archipelago wrote:Manfred Sideous wrote: Maybe just maybe you can get dudes in your alliance to help scout and probe instead of doing it all yourself. Crazy Idea I know ( using teamwork and all that crazy whippity dippity stuff).
What about smaller groups? Groups that don't have thousands of people? Who don't even have hundreds? What about when you're in fleets of 6-8 people (and fewer)? Do we have to now dedicate someone to probing? Are we to be limited to D3's and T3's so each person can fit both a probe launcher and their combat fit? Does the answer once again become "use an alt?" Large nullsec groups aren't the only players out there, and not everybody wants to be just another F1-pusher, or just another number in a TIDI slug-fest. This change affects everybody, but it doesn't affect everybody equally.
T3 destroyers have a slot for a probe launcher last I checked they are very popular ships in small gangs HTH.
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Clasina
Top Hat Innovations
2
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:45:12 -
[286] - Quote
BobFromMarketing wrote:This makes me so hard
The last words some people ever hear. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31715
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:46:00 -
[287] - Quote
I haven't been this amused by what's happening to EVE since jump fatigue.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Klarion Sythis
Lazerhawks
326
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:47:40 -
[288] - Quote
This feels like a change aimed at a few particular aspects that comes with a ton of collateral damage. This does not make the game more fun for me. |
Angelic Tallbrooke
Redemption Road Affirmative.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:49:00 -
[289] - Quote
Warmeister wrote:i think CCP should implement this change slightly differently. instead of not allowing fleet warp at all, they should make sure that only those who can warp to the particular object themselves, will enter warp, the rest of the fleet stays.
so with corp bookmarks - only members of the corp would warp, with scan results - only the prober etc. this would make for far more interesting game play, although i suspect will be much harder on resources to determine who can and cannot warp.
Brain in a Box would probably fix those issues, but I feel as though CCP needs to get alliance bookmarks into play before making a "yes, you can warp to this bookmark"/"no, you cannot warp to this bookmark" system in place. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1691
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:50:43 -
[290] - Quote
Good changes -- I'm mostly in favor of them. I am concerned about the knock-on effects regarding un-probe-able ships, however. How concerned about them I am depends on whether or not a Rokh can hit a tengu, which is something I'm too lazy to check right now. :V
Offgrid boosters that can't be probed down except by heavily bonused and implanted covops ships are also a problem, but it is common knowledge that this won't be handled until the Destiny rewrite is finished, so I guess we have to suffer with it for now.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Warmeister
Van Diemen's Demise Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:52:51 -
[291] - Quote
Angelic Tallbrooke wrote: Brain in a Box would probably fix those issues, but I feel as though CCP needs to get alliance bookmarks into play before making a "yes, you can warp to this bookmark"/"no, you cannot warp to this bookmark" system in place.
alliance bookmarks will take away all the fun from this change. |
Miner Hottie
Haywire.
133
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:54:07 -
[292] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Miner Hottie wrote: I had the emphasis on new players and FCs for a reason. But sure, making the game harder and more boring is an improvement correct?
Emphasis on newer FC's for what reason? You say it makes it harder for them, when in reality it's a false requirement you are imagining. And you may say 'hard' and 'boring', where someone else might say 'interesting' and 'fun'. Who needs good pilots in ships putting their skills on the line when you have an FC with probes and an F1 button? Are you being deliberately obtuse? Learning to command and lead takes time, knowledge and experience. Delegation is part of it. As a leader myself I know that to delegate a task, the person delegated must be able to do it. Hence newbros are mostly out of frame foe these tasks. Learning when and what to delegate is harder than it seems as well. A PL fc with a gang of bitter vets will not suffer under these changes. A gang of 1 week old BNIs had a chance before if their fc could lead them well. That just evaporated unless the FC has a core of vets to assist them.
This change is a massive restriction to content enablers. Something CCP in the past has acknowledged they have done in the past is make things hard for these people. So why this change? Apart from it giving Manny a throbbing CSMrection, it has already made life a prospective hell for wormholes and Malcannis Law doesn't apply at all as this clearly isn't intended to help newbies. In a game in which social interaction is key, a change aimed squarely at emphasising small gang, elite gameplay shouldn't be championed by the CSM or the devs at all.
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Luft Reich
No Vacancies
87
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:55:07 -
[293] - Quote
I see our wormhole CSM is valiantly defending the life style of people in wormhole space....
Yeah, it might be good for nullsec but have you really thought about the effects on wormhole space? Clearly not.
ISD Cyberdyne liked your forum post
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
241
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:57:56 -
[294] - Quote
The thing about this change is that so many kills would never have happened with these mechanics, and I don't mean bombing runs. Bombing runs should be addressed directly, stop trying to kid yourself that they're the result of anything except a class of ships which can fit covops cloaks and launch area of effect weapons with a timed fuse. If you don't like the extremely asymmetric pvp that creates, change bomb launchers, the hull or both, not a crucial mechanic for every FC in all space, even where bomb launchers can't be activated. |
Manfred Sideous
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
1170
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:59:30 -
[295] - Quote
Luft Reich wrote:I see our wormhole CSM is valiantly defending the life style of people in wormhole space.... Yeah, it might be good for nullsec but have you really thought about the effects on wormhole space? Clearly not.
Warping yourself or warping to Wwwww's in fleet Zomgz life is over .
@EveManny
https://twitter.com/EveManny
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Pyralissa
Kite Co. Space Trucking
14
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Posted - 2015.06.12 02:59:32 -
[296] - Quote
Querns wrote:Offgrid boosters that can't be probed down except by heavily bonused and implanted covops ships are also a problem, but it is common knowledge that this won't be handled until the Destiny rewrite is finished, so I guess we have to suffer with it for now.
Or, you know, we don't and instead wait for other changes to occur first before throwing the most core aspect of EVE's gameplay (travel) into the blender for the benefit of making bombing more difficult and making pilots "more engaged" in fleets.
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Winter Archipelago
Furtherance.
374
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Posted - 2015.06.12 03:00:01 -
[297] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote: T3 destroyers have a slot for a probe launcher last I checked they are very popular ships in small gangs HTH.
As I asked, are our options to be so limited? Must we take out T3 destroyers or cruisers and nothing else? It's enough already to gimp a fit of a Thorax or a Caracal or another cruiser to get an expanded probe launcher on them, but at least they could still participate in the fight.
Must our options be limited to dedicated cloaky scanners, alts, or the two T3 groups?
Planning a trip to Thera? Check out http://eve-scout.com/ for a list of the current connections.
Once you've made your choice, join the channels EVE-Scout or Furtherance Public and request a scout to make sure your connection is clear!
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
43
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Posted - 2015.06.12 03:01:59 -
[298] - Quote
Manfred Sideous wrote:Luft Reich wrote:I see our wormhole CSM is valiantly defending the life style of people in wormhole space.... Yeah, it might be good for nullsec but have you really thought about the effects on wormhole space? Clearly not. Warping yourself or warping to Wwwww's in fleet Zomgz life is over .
Are you familiar with the fact that different ships warp at different speeds? |
mbass
Sanguine Penguin Rote Kapelle
1
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Posted - 2015.06.12 03:02:25 -
[299] - Quote
How could a squad commander possibly command a squad with this broken suggestion? No! This will brake Eve! No! |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1691
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Posted - 2015.06.12 03:02:25 -
[300] - Quote
Random unsolicited, unread probing suggestion:
Make how hard a thing is to probe a function of strictly signature radius. Use sensor strength to affect how long it takes to actually act upon the results.
This would turn probing into a two-pass process: the initial probe scan would reveal the targets. However, for 100% results, the result would not be immediately actionable. For 100% results, a timer bar would automatically tick down a delay based on the ratio of sensor strength to signature radius of the target. Once the timer bar elapsed, the probe result would be eligible for warping.
(This could be implemented by sending a timestamp along with the probe results, describing the earliest time the 100% result was actionable. UI fanciness could dress this up with the delay bar/etc.)
The idea here is to make ECCM still affect how difficult it is to be probed, without turning it into an essentially binary toggle on whether one can feasibly probe you down or not.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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