A cloaky prober can't get into position so the FC can fleet warp to him/her?

Q: CCP, why you do this?
A: We want transfer more responsibility for the success of a fleet from its FC to its members.

Both of these points are solid. Corbexx brought these up while we where talking to the CSM about the change.
Regarding slowing down the speed of sites, given the potential profitability of wormhole space, we don't consider this a major negative.
Regarding movement fleets though WH space, we have something we're working on for this. That said some of the feedback we've received is mixed. Reducing power projection though WH space (for both WH residence & passes though) not seen as all bad.

Both of these points are solid. Corbexx brought these up while we where talking to the CSM about the change.
Regarding slowing down the speed of sites, given the potential profitability of wormhole space, we don't consider this a major negative.
Regarding movement fleets though WH space, we have something we're working on for this. That said some of the feedback we've received is mixed. Reducing power projection though WH space (for both WH residence & passes though) not seen as all bad.

Is it really "power projection", just to be able to warp as a group to a "stargate"? That seems pretty much standard travel outside of wormholes.

Local is standard outside of wormholes.

There is so much wrong with this post it makes me want to cry that your opinion might be considered somehow relevant.

In no situation would this ever be a problem for people who know what they're doing. If you are caught literally with your pants down, then I still have 0 sympathy because the other guys won with scouting.

Also have to take into consideration that the clones of the probing frigates often cost 3 or 4x that of the T3 Link ship.
Risk not worth the reward in killing probers anymore.

If we got a desalination company involved with this thread, we could probably help ease California's water issues.

Devs:

Many comments above described how pilots in w-space uses wormholes to move from system to system, and corporate WH BMs are what fleets use to move from system to system. Corp BMs allow wormhole fleets to move similar to, of course, fleets in normal space where they use "public" gates to travel from system to system. The proposed changes will take away that ability from w-space.

Suggestion:
Make corporate wormhole BMs "public" just as gates are, and allow fleets to warp from WH to WH in a coherent group. Otherwise as the Dev proposal stands now, the fleet can't work together as they land because ships are strung out throughout the system. This allows the enemy to pick off small faster ships first as the landing fleet straggles in.

If wormhole BMs are made "public", it should significantly lessen the damage this nerf does to WH corp membership and fleet ops. I recall somewhere in the sov changes thread, devs stated that changes should enhance game play rather than add unnecessary difficulties and tedium.

As Sarg wrote in a comment above to other w-spacers: "If you are trying to get your battleships to land on grid with your cruisers now, even triage, good luck and have fun having the enemy pick stragglers off."

So my main concern here is that this is a stealth buff to off grid boosters (OGB).

Many tech 3 off grid boosters are fitted both to be extremely hard to scan down and have a 100mn afterburner to burn around on the grid. Furthermore they often sit in deep safes (long warps).

Currently the best way to kill an OGB is to scan it down (which needs to be done fast or they cloak) fleet warp a lachesis or a tackle bomber to them (dscan invisibility).

After this change in order to kill a OGB you'll need to put a cloaky scout on grid with the OGB so you can warp to that. This causes a few issues, often OGB's are only decloaked for a limited amount of time, so the extra delay reduces the chances of catching it. Furthermore if it's in a deepsafe and burning with a 100mn 2 long warps instead of one makes it highly likely that it will now be out of tackle range completely by the time you get there.

Fitting tackle to the prober isn't that realistic a solution either since you need highly specialized fits to even be able to scan most tech 3 OGB's down in the first place. And many of the command ship variants that are hard to probe also carry a flight of ECM drones which puts further restraints on the fits of viable tackle ship.

So I worry that this change makes a class of ships that is already incredibly hard to kill even harder to kill.

Having corp bookmarks update instantaneously might be a viable work around, that way you still remove the automation but at least it doesn't hurt things like OGB hunting then.

You'll still be able to use them, but this will slow the speed at which they usually hit their targets. We consider that a very good outcome.

The removal of warping to probes is daft. It removes a dynamic in fleet combat. At least allow probed locations to be broadcast so fleets can warp too them rather than warping to a freindly ship at that location. It's that or even less fights.

Please give the small/micro gang elite pvp jerks their arena to go fight in and stop buggering up strategic fleet warfare. While your at it, put decloaking back on bombers. Would solve most of the problems you're trying to solve by removing useful/interesting mechanics.

+1

I can no longer warp my entire fleet to the hole and expect them to land in a cohesive group, first my T3's land and get primaried then a minute later my Bhaals land and then 2 minutes later my triage lands by that time we are all dead. And that's assuming all of us have the BM which can take quite a long time to happen. CCP i am adamantly against this change. Please reconsider.

This is a terrible idea, you want a fleet to all land at once on a wormhole with different warp speeds, thats no longer possible.
0/10

Here is my list of things you can no longer warp to in a fleet without a scout in position. This is just one more account to run by FCs, who alternately have to be SURE they are reliable and are actually there every time.

So scout ahead to see enemies coming, and scout JUST ahead of the fleet, WAITING for people to actually warp to him. usually at the wrong range.

I think it's terrible because telling a newbie how to warp to a person is painful. And getting him to pick the right range is even worse if it's not at zero. It encourages scouts, yes, but it also just slows down and makes game play more complicated.

This is unnecessarily problematic for warping a fleet onto a target who is on a station, and thus you cannot get a covops remotely near without decloaking him. I think you've only considered a narrow range of fleet warp scenarios and are making people that are already very safe even safer.

Suggestion:
Make corporate wormhole BMs "public" just as gates are, and allow fleets to warp from WH to WH in a coherent group. Otherwise as the Dev proposal stands now, the fleet can't work together as they land because ships are strung out throughout the system. This allows the enemy to pick off small faster ships first as the landing fleet straggles in.

If wormhole BMs are made "public", it should significantly lessen the damage this nerf does to WH corp membership and fleet ops. I recall somewhere in the sov changes thread, devs stated that changes should enhance game play rather than add unnecessary difficulties and tedium.

[Is it really "power projection", just to be able to warp as a group to a "stargate"? That seems pretty much standard travel outside of wormholes.