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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:00:00 -
[271]
I guess the only thing i have left to say is about the name, it really couldnt be more suitable.
Bacon comes from pigs, pigs is the nickname given to fat/lazy cops, lazy is what you would have to be to use this...
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Salient Soldier
Minmatar Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:02:00 -
[272]
Edited by: Salient Soldier on 21/04/2008 00:03:10 God, this is BS.
Figures a hydra guy would come up with this.
As if loggers werent bad enough as it is.
0.0 is suppose to be about risk versus reward, but all the risk is drying up. Now, even complete idiots can survive in 0.0.
When the hell did EvE become such a carebear fest?
Local needs to go.
Hydra, quit playing eve, do us all a favor, go play some WoW. Its where you belong.
Oh, and local needs to go.
Time for CCP to show us that they're here to make a quality game that stands out from the rest, not WoW: Space Edition.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:02:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Elmicker Add a rat aggro timer.
Make cloaks probable.
They can keep their cute little alarm.
Ive been trying to hard Elmicker, but its just not getting through
Vote Goumindong for CSM |
Malaan Tabfassh
The Flowing Penguins
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:15:00 -
[274]
This whole thing is one step too far
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Divi
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:19:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Divi on 21/04/2008 00:19:23 I'm not going to say this is right or wrong. I will say according to the EULA mouse and keyboard macros are legal... The Eula only states the use of a program outside the game that allows a player to gain resources, acquire in game currency at a faster than attended rate are against the EULA. That no program can sample nor modify the game code.
Now note BACON gives no advantage to an attentive person watching local. A mining macro doesn't gather materials any faster than a player actually playing the game. We all know the macro even an attended macro is considered banable. I would be cautious to use this for that reason. The other side is how it is detecting someone entering a system. If they are stream sampling that is a EULA violation. If it detects based on a cashe file that is created. I'm not sure if that would be a violation outright, but you know the one thing that BACON will do....
It will Give CCP the firepower it needs to get rid of Local chat as it has been spoken about elsewhere.
Eve is a PVP first game. Everything else supports that. BACON will not change that.
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Ravelin Eb
Spartan Industries Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:22:00 -
[276]
This is disgusting. _________
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Benco97
Gallente Exchangable Properties
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:33:00 -
[277]
Hmm.. Irrespective of legality this application advocates spending less attention on the game, Which is not a good thing. Simple as that really.
Originally by: Kirjava This man speaks the truth, when he farts we count the length in seconds and make squillions buying winning lottery tickets.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:34:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Ravelin Eb This is disgusting.
What he said.
It's not making Hydra any better tbh... we got a bunch of ratters the other night with a little T2 gang in Hydra space ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:42:00 -
[279]
you will never know. ever.
every time your ship explodes, you will have to wonder...did they have BACON?
every kill will be tainted by the accusation that BACON was used.
the hysteria in this threadnaught is HILARIOUS.
lol. all of a sudden everybody and their two-bit alt is interested in the general "fairness" of eve-online... LOLOLOLOLOL.
ok.
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IceGuerilla
Amarr Poseidon's Wingmen
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:44:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Trathen A haiku:
Bacon looks at logs It does nothing new with EvE Stop being emo
All opinions expressed are of IceGuerilla and not of his corp/alliance. |
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Roy Batty68
Caldari Immortal Dead
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:45:00 -
[281]
Well, arguements about BACON aside, there's a subtle larger issue on the table. Do we want UI mods allowed or not?
BACON could set the precedent that opens those flood gates.
And tbh, I really don't want to have to **** around with lag inducing, "can we trust it?" player hacks in order to keep up with the status quo. I still don't care for the voip progs all that much. But whatever, they're a different bird I suppose.
End of the day: Yes, it highlights missing functionality from the Eve UI, perhaps. But it sure as hell isn't worth going down the "well if that's allowed, how about this?" path it is sure to go.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
KapnKaboom
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:47:00 -
[282]
Originally by: jongalt you will never know. ever.
every time your ship explodes, you will have to wonder...did they have BACON?
every kill will be tainted by the accusation that BACON was used.
the hysteria in this threadnaught is HILARIOUS.
lol. all of a sudden everybody and their two-bit alt is interested in the general "fairness" of eve-online... LOLOLOLOLOL.
ok.
And it's hard to see what it is they are crying about. They just need to grow up and save the crying for the kiddies. All folks in nulsec really do is sit in a station or hide behind a POS shield all day, so it's not like BACON would change anything. With or without BACON I can still go 30 jumps out into nulsec and not find a single pilot that isn't either docked or hiding behind their POS shield.
But it is delightful to feast on all the tears in this thread. It made my weekend.
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:49:00 -
[283]
Originally by: KapnKaboom And it's hard to see what it is they are crying about. They just need to grow up and save the crying for the kiddies. All folks in nulsec really do is sit in a station or hide behind a POS shield all day, so it's not like BACON would change anything. With or without BACON I can still go 30 jumps out into nulsec and not find a single pilot that isn't either docked or hiding behind their POS shield.
But it is delightful to feast on all the tears in this thread. It made my weekend.
You have bad luck my friend. I can go less than 5 jumps and find targets when in 0.0. But maybe that will be changing if this becomes a widely used program. ------------
Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
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InSession
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:52:00 -
[284]
Another tool/tactic/etc. to make care bearing that much more easy (removing the risk). May as well call 0.0 Empire v.2
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Odyssey.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:52:00 -
[285]
And people stil wonder why Local must GO? ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
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Minuteman
Viziam
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Posted - 2008.04.21 00:57:00 -
[286]
I'd like to discuss a couple of things that I thought relevant to this topic. Please understand that I am not trolling, baiting or being ironic.
1) I'd like to salute Cesar Malari et al for having the technical know-how to write this program. Everything else aside, I doubt most people who play EVE are that technically minded. Well done.
2) I'd like to agree with some of the pro- BACON arguments in this thread, which are very valid (it's not more different to local, people should have lives outside EVE etc)
3) My main point is this - many people in EVE like to camp gates, especially in 0.0. Camping is not only a perfectly reasonable and encouraged tactic (bubbles are largely, though not entirely in game for this purpose). We all know that speed is essential when camping - hesitate a little and your prey gets away. So, as a camper, I'd like to point out how BACON is a brilliant camping tool. I'm not being ironic or derogatory, but something like this would make the game more fun, because I won't have to look at the screen for hours on end.
Minuteman's Comic |
Tommy TenKreds
Animal Mercantile Executive
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:13:00 -
[287]
I've said this elsewhere but it bears repeating.
This thread is headed "BACON: Never be surprised again..".
Clearly even BACON's creators recognise the alteration to game mechanics created by their program. Moreover, they celebrate it.
Vigilance is the player's responsibility.
It should not be possible to hand over this responsibility to a third-party application.
Bandures > Tommy, you like a cowboy harry ) |
jongalt
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:19:00 -
[288]
dont worry, tommy.
you will never ever know im using it.
you will have to assume everybody is using this program. even if they arent.
because you cant prove one way or the other who is innocent and who isnt.
lol. beautiful.
-jg.
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Asika Kazama
Warp Asylum.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:20:00 -
[289]
Lets start at the beginning.
Local is needed so that we know who is in a system to save everyone the time of scouting it out completely. This is the reason it still exits and will exist without other changes to the game. BACON highlights what is wrong with this system, as it is so easy to avoid PVP and results in the need to stare at a list of players in a system to get/avoid fights.
What we need is a scanner that is permanently open on the screen, has an extended range above 14AU and can detect whether a ship is being piloted (has power). The scanner itself would have to be redesigned to be more intuitive to display where said ships would be with regards to the astrological bodies within the system. So you would have a spherical/cylindrical shaped scanner with an image of the system, and a list of its findings down the side, where you could highlight an item of interest.
With this system scouts and players wouldn't do as they do currently: keep an eye on local repeatedly spamming the "scan" button, it would be real time and your clicks are free elsewhere.
The worry of covert ops and recon ships being now unstoppable (as I imagine many would argue, rightly so) could be avoided by sharing a common "unknown" signature with other astrological bodies such as clouds, low level exploration sites etc. Simply so that "unknown" didn't directly translate to cov ops/recons.
The local channel could be removed completely, or remain without the count of active players.
The problem of not knowing the diplomatic (blue/red) status of ships found on the scanner could be easily solved by adding their standings to the scan of the ship, as I imagine ships transmitting a certain identification codes if they were in space anyway (rp).
Personally this system would make the game more enjoyable as it would change the way we interact with others in space for the better.
Asika.
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Zaknussem
Caldari The Ironbreakers
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:20:00 -
[290]
I'm gonna go in the camp that says that this thread is so much fun because of all the whine in it. I'm also gonna put myself in the camp that approves of BACON, and commend Gunfleet Logistics for making the release of BACON public.
Let's break it down:
# The people whining the most about this program are the people who'll suffer the most from it. The gankers, the so-called "Pirates" and the gate-campers (e.g. the very same people that keep saying that Warp To Zero is the worst thing to happen to EvE). The big alliances don't care, as they've been using programs like these to stay alive, and I doubt the majority of the hi-sec population will give a toss either.
# For those in total denial, this program does not make forbidden or secret information available to the playerbase. What it does is give us an alternative to receiving the same information that is available to everyone. That it is an "easier" method of acquiring said information is irrelevant. If you think receiving intel via audible means instead of visible means is an exploit, a hack, a cheat or (and I love this bit) "against the spirit of the game", then remove/disable whatever communication program you're using to accomplish the very same thing.
# For those going on and on about "the spirit of the game", get this: The spirit of the game is Kill Or Be Killed. People will do anything and everything to both accomplish the former and prevent the latter, otherwise we wouldn't have suicide ganks, logoffskis, gatecamps, alternate characters and beneficial third-party programs, just to name a few of the gems.
# If you think CCP should ban all third-party programs that give you an "unfair out-of-game advantage", then say goodbye to EvEMon, EFT, EvEMeep, QuickFit and any other programs I haven't mentioned. Make sure you also kiss your web-browser goodbye, as there are loads of websites out there absolutely loaded with unfair out-of-game advantages, and your browser is a means to acquire and utilize those advantages. It doesn't matter whether it's an alternative intelligence-gathering program (BACON) or an alternative skill planning/management program (EvEMon), they keyword here is "alternative".
# Adapt or die. I don't know how often this has been said before, but obviously not often enough. The world as we know it (the one outside of EvE, FYI) survives by these words, why should a game (or the players of said game) not do the same? There's no point whining on a forum over BACON. It, and other programs like it, have been around for quite a while. If you did not know this, then thank Gunfleet for changing that. Then learn to live with these programs.
# By making BACON public, Gunfleet Logistics is raising awareness of some serious issues in EvE. Should third-party programs be allowed to access game data outside of the official channels (API keys) to retrieve useful information? Should in-game intel gathering be restricted to visible means only, or should we have the option of having audible means as well? Should the playerbase be allowed to "mod" the UI?
# Most of the bile, rants, whining and anger in this thread should not be aimed at the makers of BACON, but at CCP, yet few (if any) seem to do so. CCP did not ban BACON outright. They, in fact, helped make BACON EULA-compliant, which must be an approval of sorts. Also, Gunfleet Logistics worked with CCP in developing BACON, how many programs exist out there that were not?
Finally...
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa Why are you guys trying to destroy EVE?
Because they can. Because it's there. Because they want to. A harsh, cold and unforgiving game like EvE will attract certain types of people. The types that do not hold anything sacred, the types that see no difference between "use" and "abuse", the types that reject the concept of "fair play". If you think I'm referring to Goonswarm by this, you're wrong. Goonswarm is only the tip of the iceberg. |
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Zaknussem
Caldari The Ironbreakers
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:21:00 -
[291]
BTW, I'm not an alt for anyone associated with Gunfleet, Hydra Alliance or any other "parties of interest", save that of the EvE playerbase as a whole. |
Orb Lati
Minmatar ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:34:00 -
[292]
Just a thought. But if CCP dont allow Audible signals for game events the are they not being discriminatory against Blind computer gamers
"We worship Strength because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Nhi'Khuna
Strife Mercenaries Inc. Wrath.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:36:00 -
[293]
Holy crap kids, what ar eyou complaning about? This is nothing more than a warning system... like one might conceivably have in a space ship if you were trying to dodge someone... how mnay sci fi novels or films have featured this kind of thing as part of the flavor text of the background?
Sheesh.
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Saul Reaver
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:54:00 -
[294]
Edited by: Saul Reaver on 21/04/2008 01:56:50
Originally by: Batolemaeus
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa it breaks the spirit of the game.
Exactly my thought.
I also agree. Whats the point of playing the game when cheats like this are available?
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Salient Soldier
Minmatar Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.21 01:56:00 -
[295]
DOWN WITH LOCAL CHAT!
there should just be a player count in the scanner or something, and local should just show people who have talked.
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Mi'serei
Warp Asylum.
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Posted - 2008.04.21 02:08:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Zaknussem I'm a douche.
You certainly seem like a douche. kekekekeke
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spiderppig
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Posted - 2008.04.21 02:11:00 -
[297]
i want a mod that allows me 2 warp directly to ne player in system at ne time instantly.
now we need someone thats anti bacon to program it up.
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zoltar
Caldari Perdu Opus
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Posted - 2008.04.21 02:17:00 -
[298]
Originally by: spiderppig i want a mod that allows me 2 warp directly to ne player in system at ne time instantly.
now we need someone thats anti bacon to program it up.
OMG that is perfect! problem solved, we can all calm down now
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Kvirie
Caldari Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.04.21 02:18:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Luminary Mind
Quote: It's no more metagame than Teamspeak.
VOIP is metagaming, really?
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Kvirie
Caldari Children of the Wind
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Posted - 2008.04.21 02:24:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Minuteman people should have lives outside EVE etc
Then log out.
If you are going to play a game, then play it. If you're going to split your focus, then accept that you're going to be hindered. I lost a Retriever because I alt-tabbed and 3 npcs spawned and killed me. Maybe we should have a Bacon-type program that tells me when I get targeted, or maybe once I'm at half shields? Maybe when i reach armor?
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