EVE Search - BACON: Never be surprised again (relaunch)

All Channels

EVE General Discussion

BACON: Never be surprised again (relaunch)

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:04:00 - [391] Edited by: Zakgram on 21/04/2008 15:04:30 Interesting tool. It adds to the list of other tools that tell you out of game that things in-game are happening, including: Evemon. Saved me from missing skills while not logged in several times due to the extra "Skill training completed" popups and bells. Lets me see my wallet on several chars that aren't the one I'm logged in as, etc. Mining timers. Ping -> drag, drop that can -> go afk 10 minutes -> ping. Etc etc. People seem to have degrees of it's ok vs. it's not ok. However I think that either all tools of any sort that aren't the game client should be banned, or that all tools are allowed. The game client is crappy anyway; lots could be done to improve it to reduce the need for 3rd party tools - like asset managers to find stuff because the client sucks - like EFT which should just be built into the game, like timers for mining etc. Waiting for CCP to do them though is like waiting for the overview bugs to be fixed
Furious Hawk Caldari Farlight Optic Council	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:09:00 - [392] This would be nice to warn high-sec miners about an incoming goonswarm suicide gank, but for 0.0 pvp I don't think this program should really be allowed. -------------------------------------------------- Everyone is entitled to my opinion.
Lautrec LFC Insurgency	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:15:00 - [393] Why would this be allowed? I don't get it. What does it matter if it gets around the EULA in some squirmy way? Just ban this miserable piece of junk now. Oh, and LOLHYDRA.
Zora Gallente Community for Justice ParadoXon Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 15:22:00 - [394] Originally by: Nhi'Khuna Holy crap kids, what ar eyou complaning about? This is nothing more than a warning system... like one might conceivably have in a space ship if you were trying to dodge someone... how mnay sci fi novels or films have featured this kind of thing as part of the flavor text of the background? Sheesh. Agreed. I can't understand all the whining and outcries in this thread. it's not like this gives you any intel advantage other than not having to stare at LOCAL while it takes up one quarter of your screen. I mean geez, do you think that's any better? IF you accept the way local works right now, you have to accept this. It's a logical consequence, if you don't want to add obfuscation as a valid game mechanic. And no, I won't be using this program, just my observation of this thread.
Zakgram Atomic Heroes Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:22:00 - [395] Originally by: Zora LOCAL while it takes up one quarter of your screen. This; anything that means yet another useless window that accidently gets randomly clicked on and lags the client out while loading the portrait is a good thing. BTW I have 1900x1200 and I'd still get rid of the "chat" portion of local if I could...
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:26:00 - [396] Originally by: Zora Agreed. I can't understand all the whining and outcries in this thread. it's not like this gives you any intel advantage other than not having to stare at LOCAL while it takes up one quarter of your screen. I mean geez, do you think that's any better? IF you accept the way local works right now, you have to accept this. It's a logical consequence, if you don't want to add obfuscation as a valid game mechanic. And no, I won't be using this program, just my observation of this thread. Read, think, then poast. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Firane Teneritas	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:32:00 - [397] Edited by: Firane on 21/04/2008 16:32:07 Wow what a ****ty app. Another reason this game is going down the toilet.
Faife Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:50:00 - [398] I love mobs. Everyone disses hydra while ignoring Razor, Goonswarm, and themselves for using Vent.
Ki An Gallente Filiolus Of Bellum	Posted - 2008.04.21 16:59:00 - [399] Originally by: Faife I love mobs. Everyone disses hydra while ignoring Razor, Goonswarm, and themselves for using Vent. Comparing this program to Ventrilo or Teamspeak is such a huge and obvious strawman that there should be spankings administered to those that do it. Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
Nasty eX	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:09:00 - [400] Originally by: Durzel Edited by: Durzel on 20/04/2008 12:11:20 Originally by: Tzar'rim Originally by: Koala Bare At least 2 0.0 alliances use something similar Please name and shame. Well, there's this one. What, not one comment about the bee's? Why is everyone so afraid of the Goons? They are just players too! Peeps are blasting Hydra for this, but there are tools like this that the Goons and BoB have been using for years! If your in BoB or a Goon, you guys need to fess up about this issue. Its only fair.
clev age	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:10:00 - [401] Edited by: clev age on 21/04/2008 17:11:07 i love this tool it makes it easy for ppl to be lazy and complasent in systems in 0.0 this is easy mode, thx for this CCP u are fools if you allow this it has so many impacts on the game that is broken enough
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:11:00 - [402] Originally by: Nasty eX What, not one comment about the bee's? Why is everyone so afraid of the Goons? They are just players too! Peeps are blasting Hydra for this, but there are tools like this that the Goons and BoB have been using for years! If your in BoB or a Goon, you guys need to fess up about this issue. Its only fair. BoB haven't been using any macros of this nature, and goons stopped using them due to impracticality. Get some evidence before running your mouth off. Maybe we're recruiting, I don't know, spam eve-mails to Daniel Zorg, and go into a coma for a week.
Gandolf Gallente Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:14:00 - [403] Originally by: Nasty eX What, not one comment about the bee's? Why is everyone so afraid of the Goons? They are just players too! Peeps are blasting Hydra for this, but there are tools like this that the Goons and BoB have been using for years! If your in BoB or a Goon, you guys need to fess up about this issue. Its only fair. goons dont have a warning system like this nor does bob but nice try
Proxay Gallente Fallen Angel's Blade.	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:14:00 - [404] Originally by: Faife I love mobs. Everyone disses hydra while ignoring Razor, Goonswarm, and themselves for using Vent. For what you're implying, it'd require vent to have an active player informing the others what is going on, which is not dissimilar to using corp chat, alliance chat, gang chat...etc. What this program does, is take out the human interaction, allowing isk farmers, carebears and generally incompetent people to rely entirely on a 3rd party program to warn them of hostiles entering their zone. This program is ridiculous, and promotes dis-interest in the game, and makes carebearing too easy in some of the harder areas due to the ease of no longer having to pay attention to local. I'm calling for this app to be banned, and any similar applications which take the human factor out of playing EVE, and read logserver events to minimize player interaction and concentration, to also be banned/investigated. Maybe we're recruiting, I don't know, spam eve-mails to Daniel Zorg, and go into a coma for a week.
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:19:00 - [405] Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Faife I love mobs. Everyone disses hydra while ignoring Razor, Goonswarm, and themselves for using Vent. Comparing this program to Ventrilo or Teamspeak is such a huge and obvious strawman that there should be spankings administered to those that do it. It is so sad that some people are so dense they don't see the difference, or insult us by expecting us to be this dense. "BACON: Never be surprised again" Vigilance is the player's responsibility! Passing this responsibility to a third-party application is a clear violation of the EULA - Wake up CCP!
Nick Endymion	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:24:00 - [406] Makes me wonder if this is just elaborate plan to have local removed by releasing utility which is just useless to us who actually pay attention while playing. There's been lot more advertising for this program what actually was needed in first place, which strikes me odd.
Nasty eX	Posted - 2008.04.21 17:49:00 - [407] Originally by: Proxay Originally by: Nasty eX What, not one comment about the bee's? Why is everyone so afraid of the Goons? They are just players too! Peeps are blasting Hydra for this, but there are tools like this that the Goons and BoB have been using for years! If your in BoB or a Goon, you guys need to fess up about this issue. Its only fair. BoB haven't been using any macros of this nature, and goons stopped using them due to impracticality. Get some evidence before running your mouth off. Ahhh, did I hurt your feelings? I seen it on a co-workers laptop who is in BoB, that was proof enough for me! FYI, that was a year ago. Besides that, everyone knows that no alliance needs a tool such as this for intel. We all have intel channels we use, we have spies, and we have eyes in the way of neuts. Not to mention the use of TS or Vent! Jesus, get a grip, this ain't gonna kill Eve.
Skyr Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:03:00 - [408] Edited by: Skyr on 21/04/2008 18:04:34 Originally by: Nick Endymion Makes me wonder if this is just elaborate plan to have local removed by releasing utility which is just useless to us who actually pay attention while playing. There's been lot more advertising for this program what actually was needed in first place, which strikes me odd. You are probably right on the ball. I applaud goons for wresting CCP's hand into doing something about local finally as I don't see any other way they can cripple this app without breaking logserver which is is VERY essential for debugging EVE client problems. Of course... if CCP changes local to scanner based warning system... this will also probably end up in the log and hence app like BACON will still be usable in somewhat limited fashion (scanner doesn't show player name so no standings can be derived).
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:08:00 - [409] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Faife I love mobs. Everyone disses hydra while ignoring Razor, Goonswarm, and themselves for using Vent. Comparing this program to Ventrilo or Teamspeak is such a huge and obvious strawman that there should be spankings administered to those that do it. It is so sad that some people are so dense they don't see the difference, or insult us by expecting us to be this dense. EVE voice exists within the game, and is functionality that all players have available. Why therefore use Ventrillo or Teamspeak, unless it provides some additional advantage that the in game version does not. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:08:00 - [410] What I find interesting is that so many people here seem oblivious to the Goon's "bee" program, while jumping all over Hydra's BACON program. The point is, kiddies, that Hydra is not the only Alliance out there doing this. There are PLENTY of smart players out there that will take any "gray area" advantage they can, and You can be assured that tools like this have been and will continue to be put to wide and frequent use. You can whine and cry all day about how "lame" or "not fair" it is, but in the end the Devs have ruled it LEGAL and ALLOWED. So not only will BACON become more popular, but now that this possibility is out there in the open, plenty of other "read-only" apps for processing the extraneous data that the EVE client spits out are going to be popping up. Anyone NOT taking advantage of the BACON program (or something else like it) at this point is a damn fool. /thread
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:09:00 - [411] Originally by: Plaetean I thought using the game mechanics in an unintended way was an exploit . This is ***** ridiculous, use your eyes you lazy **s. Instas. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Reuser Gunfleet Logistics Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:16:00 - [412] Originally by: Skyr You are probably right on the ball. I applaud goons for wresting CCP's hand into doing something about local finally as I don't see any other way they can cripple this app without breaking logserver which is is VERY essential for debugging EVE client problems. GUNFLEET LOGISTICS IS NOT GOONFLEET. We're not related, we've got no standings, we've never been a part of them, they of us, or anything of the sort. Likewise, this is not a HYDRA app. This is a GUNFLEET LOGISTICS app that HYDRA got to beta for a very brief time before launch. They did a great job, and spotted bugs and suggested improvements. And suggested we have CCP clarify some issues for us. Which CCP did. People... Most of the information in this thread is like this. There are so many conspiracy theories in this thread, with the source available, and archived. Go look for yourself, and ask some questions. Or best yet, stop yelling about what Gunfleet thought, and ask us... I suppose it's too much to ask, considering many posters can't even figure out who published the app. Lastly, regarding advertising... TBH, I thought this thread would be much more about technical questions and much less about griefer tears. And this thread is the only thing we've posted on the subject other than the technical thread in the OP. So... I guess we're viral marketing geniuses, or something?
Tommy TenKreds Animal Mercantile Executive	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:20:00 - [413] Originally by: James Lyrus EVE voice exists within the game, and is functionality that all players have available. Why therefore use Ventrillo or Teamspeak, unless it provides some additional advantage that the in game version does not. I assumed it was because the in-game voice comms are buggy and less stable (if the Eve client crashes, out-of-game comms remain active). Other than that, I have no idea why people may prefer out of game voice software. Nonetheless, if you seriously feel that voice comms are violation of the EULA, you should present that point of view without delay. Saying that one bad practice excuses another is obviously not the right approach, James. It is that attitude that makes BACON the thin end of a very destructive wedge. "BACON: Never be surprised again" Vigilance is the player's responsibility! Passing this responsibility to a third-party application is a clear violation of the EULA - Wake up CCP!
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:37:00 - [414] Originally by: Nasty eX What, not one comment about the bee's? Why is everyone so afraid of the Goons? They are just players too! Peeps are blasting Hydra for this, but there are tools like this that the Goons and BoB have been using for years! If your in BoB or a Goon, you guys need to fess up about this issue. Its only fair. We've all been using it. This program alone explains why BoB took all that territory and then we took all that territory. Why did LV collapse so quickly? Because BoB wouldn't give them beetracker. Couldn't be trusted. snip Signature is totally inappropriate and not allowed on EvE Forums. Contact us at [email protected] if you have any queries - Valorem
Karentaki Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:43:00 - [415] Originally by: Reuser Lastly, regarding advertising... TBH, I thought this thread would be much more about technical questions and much less about griefer tears. And this thread is the only thing we've posted on the subject other than the technical thread in the OP. So... I guess we're viral marketing geniuses, or something? Just out of interest (sorry if this seems a silly question), do your alliance members ever actually leave highsec? There is a HUGE difference between Pirate and Griefer. Griefers are people who spend most of their time in highsec ganking mission runners/afk haulers (who deserve it tbh), flipping cans, and occasionally war-deccing small industrial corps. Pirates are people who spend more time in lowsec killing the stupid idiots who go there without knowing how to survive (more people should read the lowsec gate warning tbh). This exploit of the logging system does not particularly hurt griefers, since they are often not at war, and highsec is crowded with neutrals. Instead it hurts the true pirates who look for targets in lowsec. It is easy to survive in lowsec with nothing more than a cloak, a safe spot, and a bit of common sense. With your applicatiion you do not even have to pay attention to survive pirates. My main objection however is not with the way your exploit blatantly promotes AFK-play. Rather, I object to the huge array of further macros and other EULA-breaking things that will undoubtedly spring forth from this. Thanks to your application being open-source, it will be easy for anyone to modify it so that rather than playing a sound, it simply ends ExeFile.exe, similar to Ctrl-Q or Alt-F4. Now your lowsec belt-farming raven is virtually invincible, since the moment anyone enters lowsec, you simply log out. Or, if that isn't enough, why not combine this with current macro sotware, and set it loose in 0.0. WOW, now you've got a virtually 100% safe source of AFK income. ...Now I think I'm starting to understand why big alliances like yours really came up with this software... I'll let your imagination come up with more ideas for various exploits using this. I feel I have already explained well enough why both your alliance and CCP are at fault for ever creating and allowing this software. ========== This is a signature, a cunning ploy used by forum warriors!
Ein Spiegel	Posted - 2008.04.21 18:56:00 - [416] Originally by: Turzyx Originally by: Ki An Originally by: Turzyx Quote: promoting afk game play. It is seriously bad for the game. How is this different to auto-pilot? Are you dumb? That's a serious question. No not at all, I'm just trying to understand the problem here. You say this will encourage AFK gaming (AFK meaning Away From Keyboard), how is this going to benefit someone if they are indeed AFK? Considering that the main benefit will be to people who are actually playing the game at the time, and not just floating in space somewhere doing nothing (which is a stupid thing to do anyway), the same result could be achieved by simply keeping an eye on local chat. I've heard all these arguements before, both about Ventrilo (before voice chat was introduced) and about autopilot being removed from the game. I've also heard these arguements about a mod called Spell Alert in World of Warcraft. This mod uses information that is already availible to the player, and only benefits those who are physically at their computer anyway. EVEN IF you were waiting in deadspace somewhere for a hostile to come through, you would still have to be at your computer to do something about it, and even if you were alt+tabbed, you could get roughly the same effect by sitting cloaked next to a gate, and listening for the activation sound. Okay, since I am in fact a programmer, albeit not a good one (god, I'd hate for people to see the code I produce) let me answer this question for you with a nice bulleted list. * - This is a GPL application. So even if the original authors do not intend to violate the EULA, the original source is available to anyone who will. * - It is remarkably trivial to alter the original source code to change the behavior from "play sound if" to "terminate process ####" (the Eve client) or "send Ctrl-Q to Eve Client". * - Certainly, a large and well organized alliance will have a pre-compiled method for tracking standings outside of the game. It caused a snafu recently between our corp and another that someone failed to use theirs to record a change. This program could also be altered (again, very easily) to query such a list or database with the supplied name. * - How is this different from autopilot? Because people using Autopilot die. There's a reason Autopilot does not "warp to 0". Using autopilot through low security or 0.0 space is one of the quicker ways to die, because any gatecamp worth its ISK can lock you and take you down in the 15-20km you'll show up away from the gate. If you want to start adding in conspiracy theory and tin-foil hat nonsense, consider these other possibilities. This programming can be altered so that, rather than play a sound, it can compile a list of who entered the system, at what time, and how long they stayed in system. So your alt, sitting in a SS cloaked, can be left to run 24/7. After about a week, you should have a very good idea, without EVER having played the game in that time, where and when specific characters will be on. And when they will be in this system. Humans are and always will be creatures of habit. Now, once you have that statistical trend of when people are where, you can cross reference this with a little actual time to match who is in what corp (if you don't know by looking) and what kind of ships they normally are in. Then completely decimate them whenever it shows that they will be online, alone, and in the system. Or find out who has a secret trade route through that system. Or... well, I'll let the conspiracy theorists go nuts, because they've probably already worked out how it'll mess with them from applying the same arguments that go against Google StreetView. And that's only one of a few ideas that occurred to how I can warp this GPL'd application to bad ends. (And if farmers are willing to violate the EULA, you know they'll violate the GPL.)
Skyr Black Plague. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:03:00 - [417] What steals the cake is not the latest source code available but the earlier central server reporting piece and that nice PHP app for you web server to collect the data in centralized database for everyone to view real time. Sweet.
Ein Spiegel	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:15:00 - [418] Originally by: Skyr What steals the cake is not the latest source code available but the earlier central server reporting piece and that nice PHP app for you web server to collect the data in centralized database for everyone to view real time. Sweet. Hey, that might not be a bad thing. See how "Sovereign" some unoccupied systems may really be. Does that alliance really control that space, or do they just claim it while no one ever checks up to make sure?
Red Panda VMF-214 Blacksheep Star Buccaneers	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:16:00 - [419] I dont like this program. But this isnt the problem, this is the consequence. The problem is the logserver. It gives us too much data that isnt shown in the client. And players could exploit this. Remove the logserver or make it test server only. If removing the logserver tool will cause us to have more bugs but a galaxy free of this meta intel tool. Fine, I can live with bugs. --------- Red Panda --------- ()_() ( '_') (")(") I need Bamboo !!
Straight Chillen	Posted - 2008.04.21 19:21:00 - [420] how dare people hold such contempt for tasty bacon. Yeh it could be an exploit in some ways, yeah it gives people advantages. But you know what, i got a multi monitor setup, i can throw a noob alt cloaked next to a system im ratting on a side screen, doesnt even require me paying attention either, i just listen for gate fire. thats an advantage, should CCP, start making it so i can only run 1 eve client on my PC?. wait why stop there i got another computer right next to it, linked through Synergy, Shouldn't they make it so i can only have one account per IP? Simply put, theres repercussions for everything, the peeps who've made this program have opened a world of undeserved ease to all the lazy farmers, all the people who are demanding its demise, if ur going to ban 1 third party program, why not ban them all. Really all i see here is a lotta people whining, well atleast some have brought vaild intelligent arguements to the table. IMO its questionable weither its within the realms of the acceptable, personally i have no use for it, and as such wont be using it. and i think that will be the case for many many people. so stop freaking out this isnt the end of the world, BoB isnt gonna use this to log their cap fleet on when they see the goons coming, they already know. Either way it will be interesting to see how this all pans out.

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.