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BACON: Never be surprised again (relaunch)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Kyra Felann Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.04.20 08:54:00 - [31] I support banning this program and closing the source where it gets its info. I won't go into the reasons why, as they've been expressed quite well so far.
Anub1s Amarr Return of the Anub1s	Posted - 2008.04.20 08:58:00 - [32] Edited by: Anub1s on 20/04/2008 08:58:40 No, I think that banning isn't a good idea because some group will use it anyway and gets advantage. I doubt that CCP can monitor this program because It doesn't interact with client software. Simply disable log server system entry alert feature and this program will be useless.
BurnYaBad Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:01:00 - [33] Consider the scource., a basic isk farming alliance.... go figure.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:02:00 - [34] Congrats on the programming. CCP have a (another) giant ostritch sized egg heading their way if they dont deal with this one. SKUNK
Anub1s Amarr Return of the Anub1s	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:04:00 - [35] Edited by: Anub1s on 20/04/2008 09:06:11 Imagine what would happen if those macro-ravens start using it, maybe they already do...
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Talarn Kalarn Originally by: Bellum Eternus It's groups of players like Gunfleet that represent everything that is wrong with Eve and the scumbag cheaters that comprise a large number of it's player base. Tools such as BACON and Goonfleet's similar app, and all other third party metagaming tools designed to automate info gathering from the local channel are despicable. Because Gunfleet are responsible for even more metagaming, they deserve to be grouped with Goonfleet, RA and every other loser bunch that does everything possible to take advantage of every loophole and cheat they can use to win at any cost. Gunfleet, you have my utmost contempt. *holds up mirror I'm assuming you're some kind of ISK farmer to defend what they're doing? Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:15:00 - [37] 'Approved by CCP' is stretching it... Originally by: CCP Lingorm I will find out for you. My initial reaction is that there is nothing 'wrong' with this per say. As long as you are only reading the logserver logfiles not the raw log server output. As these files can be delayed in writing, or if you want an immediate write then it takes up more cpu and disk IO that is your call. Please do not take this as CCP approval, but I will go ask the appropriate people and get you a definitive answer. and.... Originally by: GM Grimmi There does not appear to be any violation of our EULA or TOS here so we believe this should be ok. Please be advised that we will thoroughly investigate any reports that would point to the contrary and reserve the right to change our minds if deemed appropriate. Now until until I see someone more senior (Oveur) comment on this, I'm not going to believe that CCP is actually going to allow this sort of thing. In the meantime I'm off to get my pitchfork and torch... -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Siddy Minmatar Paisti Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:17:00 - [38] This tool is no problem, local chat is.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:22:00 - [39] I think I'd probably quit over this, if it is allowed to continue. It's tantamount to allowing wallhacks in an FPS. If garbage 3rd party cheating tools such as BACON are allowed, why stop there? Why not see just how far we can cheat and still be 'within the rules'? This garbage and the people who support it disgust me. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:22:00 - [40] Originally by: Siddy This tool is no problem, local chat is. Don't be a troll. This is not about local. This is about what they say on their website (read this carefully): Originally by: Bacon Website You become aware of hostiles entering your current system through auditory means without having to keep an eye on local, all in REAL TIME. CCP did not design their game so you don't have to pay attention. Therefore this is a mod. Mods are not allowed by CCP.


Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:26:00 - [41] Originally by: Reuser Originally by: Chribba I'd say we need a proper CCP investigation of this, to see weather or not this runs on the macro list. Automated software for notifying a pilot of in-game events... automated software for clicking a button every minute... tbh I'm not that happy with the "feature" this software adds. But have yet to see a proper CCP statement after doing a more deep check. Honestly, we tried to emulate your trusted third party-ness with this tool. We've bent over backwards to be transparent, CCP compliant, and open with this tool. We've tried to give EVERYONE access to the same things at the same time, while balancing being able to release a usable product. Again, open source, GPL, and accountable to CCP. I wish I could do more for you, because quite honestly, I think you and we are on the right path. This is my PERSONAL opinion, not a statement of Gunfleet policy. I think you will find that most of us agree with this post, however. Of course, I'm not reacting of the presentation of your tool at all, in fact I support most things that bring the community forward. However in this case I don't really see it as a step forward as this application basicly promotes Ctrl+Q in a way, and we all know how happy ppl are of such tactics. And imo the application kinda uses the logServer in a way that was not intended, logServer was created to dump logs of errors/bugs so CCP can improve the game. BACON simply uses it to grab intel. So imo not really the reason why logServer exists. But still I'd love to see CCP investigate it throughly and if they find it no problem, then I will of course be ok with that, but I still may not like the "feature". Either way I am glad you tried to launch it in a way that would not upset the entire playerbase right off (even if it maybe didn't succeed to 100%) I thank you for the effort. /c Secure 3rd party service ■ Do you Veldspar?

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:29:00 - [42] Originally by: Chribba And imo the application kinda uses the logServer in a way that was not intended, logServer was created to dump logs of errors/bugs so CCP can improve the game. BACON simply uses it to grab intel. So imo not really the reason why logServer exists. Chribba just hit the nail on the head in line with what I was saying about "it breaks the spirit of the game." I was never talking about PVP or PVE or whatever, I was talking about taking things out of context and using them for something else. Log files are not for intel. They are for logging.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:31:00 - [43] Drama, whine, counter-whine, repartee flame and troll. Blah, blah, blah. CCP is aware that many consider this a problem and I'm sure you can expect to have something said "official" at some point. After all, CCP has been direct to the Author already so no one is asleep at the wheel and is watching. But this: Originally by: Bellum Eternus I think I'd probably quit over this, if it is allowed to continue. After all the other crap that's gone by you want to quit over this? Bah, I believe it when I see it... and care as much then as I do now. Whatever determination that is going to be made will be made but unlike all the reactions going on there is no need to over react. No need to be burning people in effigy other than to be asshats. Yeah, yeah, I know... it's Eve what else can someone expect. It's just that there have been so many eloquent and coherent statements against this utility, damn good ones, that just got lost in between the torch carrying peasants. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
spiderppig	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:32:00 - [44] This program is made of fail and in my eyes is a down right exploit. basiclly turns everyone into a ctrl + Q chin farmer but atleast the chin farmers are looking at there screens.
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:33:00 - [45] Didn't the goons get a lot of flack for using something like this ? V8I
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:42:00 - [46] Wonders if ccp gets aura to do some more voice work and some settings in audio. "Hostiles detected in system" "Neutrals detected in system" With toggeled settings 0.0-1.0 0.0-0.5 0.0 only How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
MassonA Caldari coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:43:00 - [47] Well it would be Hydra. Yes I went there.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue Sex Panthers	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:43:00 - [48] Originally by: Shar Tegral Drama, whine, counter-whine, repartee flame and troll. Blah, blah, blah. But this: Originally by: Bellum Eternus I think I'd probably quit over this, if it is allowed to continue. After all the other crap that's gone by you want to quit over this? Bah, I believe it when I see it... and care as much then as I do now. OK, maybe not. But this kind of thing just annoys me to no end. Just makes me wonder how much further CCP will go to make all the targets, er, carebears, er, farmers, er, cheating paying customers lives easier. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Nova Fox Gallente	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:44:00 - [49] Wonders if ccp gets aura to do some more voice work and some settings in audio. "Hostiles detected in system" "Neutrals detected in system" With toggeled settings 0.0-1.0 0.0-0.5 0.0 only that way bacon is no longer useful. How to make feel low sec feel like low sec
Jenny Spitfire Caldari LoneStar Industries Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:44:00 - [50] Originally by: Nova Fox Wonders if ccp gets aura to do some more voice work and some settings in audio. "Hostiles detected in system" "Neutrals detected in system" With toggeled settings 0.0-1.0 0.0-0.5 0.0 only Tis or bacon. I thnik it is find to have bacon. If yuo don't liek it, don't use it or wiat for CCP to give Nova's propopsal. --------- Technica impendi Caldari generis. Pax Caldaria! Recruitment -KB-

Siigari Kitawa Gallente The Aduro Protocol	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:45:00 - [51] I'll do it this way. And I don't want to say it but ugh, this is an amplification of my last week of life. Recently, EVE has turned into a headache. Log in, do corp maintenance, talk with corp members, herd the corp members to do something, log out. Next day, repeat. For the past week I have been looking for some variety. I have been trying to find another game to fill my "I don't want to play EVE right now" feelings. And after reading through forum after forum from different MMOs, I realize they're nowhere near the level of excellence that EVE has reached. Cesar and your corp, please stop syndicating this software. Please. I am asking you because I want the community to not be torn apart by another issue or thing that is causing disparity in the people. If anything, I want the community of EVE to be harmonious and together on most things. Sure we have differing opinions, but this one is a little different. Rather than being something that CCP did, this is something you did. And as a software/graphic designer myself I applaud you for finding this way to use the software dumps and logs to your advantage. And I also applaud you for bringing it to the community as a whole. However, given the current reception and fact that it has the potential to divide EVE over something that has been seemingly argued over for years, I am asking you to discontinue it. If this software you have created brings around the demise of local, that makes me sad. I am asking you to not directly interfere with the normal daily operations of the game and let CCP handle it. Please show your responsibility to the players of this game and take it down. I'm saying this from my heart. I really am. I don't want to yell or flame or troll or get mean. I just don't want this to happen to this game. :( <3
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:45:00 - [52] Originally by: spiderppig This program is made of fail and in my eyes is a down right exploit. basiclly turns everyone into a ctrl + Q chin farmer but atleast the chin farmers are looking at there screens. And when they're not looking... ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Damion Zyne Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:49:00 - [53] Im sure CCP will realize that programs like this are not in the best interest of the game nor of CCP.
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:50:00 - [54] Hydra Alliance: Making 0.0 safer for ISK farmers since 2008 -----------
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:51:00 - [55] Originally by: Damion Zyne Im sure CCP will realize that programs like this are not in the best interest of the game nor of CCP. Problem is, how do you 'legistlate' against it. I mean, the logserver writes to local disk. An app to read this log and 'do stuff with it' is pretty much impossible to detect. Much like logoffski, it's hard to make it an exploit, because it implies a high degree of control of your system. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Hoshi Black Water.	Posted - 2008.04.20 09:53:00 - [56] Anyone here have actually tried to run the log server for any extended periods of time? The extra lag and general unresponsiveness it creates more than offsets any positive effects. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Nomakai Delateriel Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.04.20 10:05:00 - [57] I'd have to say no to this program as well. 1. Anyone that could benefit from using it, will use it. Because it gives them an edge generally only provided by constant vigilance. 2. But if everyone uses it suddenly a whole lot of strategies become unviable. Raiding? Might as well stay docked home because you're never going to catch anything (not even the half-asleep ratters that you could generally find and kill to sap your opponents morale and income). Empire wars? Screw that. Thus the only methods left are those where you either won't show up in local, or where your opponent has to defend static assets (ie, he can't run) Thus, the only tactics that remain are gatecamping and POS sieging. And those are (IMHO) the worst parts of EVE warfare. ______________________________________________ -You can never earn my respect, only lose it. It's given freely, and only grudgingly retracted when necessary.
Hans Roaming Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.04.20 10:05:00 - [58] Originally by: Cesar Malari Note: this is a re-release of BACON. The new version is 1.0.0.2. This version has had the reporting features removed to comply with CCP's request. . . . Previous versions of BACON (< 1.0.0.1) had the capability to log data to a remote server controled by Gunfleet. At CCP's request, this functionality has been removed from 1.0.0.2. . . . we're releasing the code under the GPL license for immediate community use and review. Gunfleet Logistics believes that it is important that everything be as open, transparent, and safe as possible. The genie is out of the bottle, as the software is now open source (even if it wasn't it wouldn't be hard to reverse engineer) it doesn't matter that remote reporting has been taken off. Expect to see alliance wide hostile reporting apps where just having everyone run this in background will allow complete hostile enitity reporting to be automated across an alliances space. It's not that hard and would be quite lightweight for server and browser requirements as using AJAX you can plot positions in real time. The logs have to go, simple as that. Replaceing local with some form of active and passive scanning with IFF for 0.0 would be quite wonderful but probably is the subject for another topic.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.04.20 10:09:00 - [59] Holy whining Batman! You guys really think this program isn't in the hands of those that want to use it already? Why don't you all direct your forum-energy at the real problem, local, instead of crying that your sense of fairness in EVE ( oh the irony ) has been shattered? There's no way CCP can check if a player reads his own log-files. You're all doing what you accuse CCP of doing, focusing on the symptom instead of the disease. Removing BACON won't remove the problem, only hide it. The only way to fix this issue is to nerf local or the log-files. Geez, biggest waste of whining I've ever seen on here. Nobody in this thread is ever allowed to accuse CCP of not thinking things through before they act, 'cause you're all clearly not able to either.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.04.20 10:12:00 - [60] Just a thought- now we've got this open source program that can do this, it makes me wonder how many private, closed source programs are in circulation on the illegal isk-farming circuit that do exactly the same thing in the same way. In other words, if CCP close up this loop-hole, they might knock-out the capabilities of all sorts of different isk-farming programs... Do it CCP, do it now! ------ Originally by: Dark Shikari The problem with killing Jesus is he always just respawns 3 days later anyways.



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