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BACON: Never be surprised again (relaunch)

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.21 07:08:00 - [331] Originally by: Shar Tegral Since you kind of asked me directly... Not really, I just picked up the habit of being really direct when I write and haven't managed to break it lately without a few edits, and I'm too lazy to edit Originally by: Shar Tegral And, in closing, I still reserve judgment on if it is cheating until someone smarter (than me) and fairer (than all you bastards) takes a good hard look at the situation and speaks their peace. Right now, it seems to be ok with them... but like the GM said, "For now. Tomorrow is another day." [Rampant Paraphrase there.] And that got a chuckle out of me. "You bastards" is a very fitting description of the EVE forum populace. Myself included Offtopic posting ftw! ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Fink Angel Caldari The Merry Men	Posted - 2008.04.21 07:18:00 - [332] Basically it was probably OK when it was a bit under the radar and not many people used it or knew about it. Now it's majorly in the open, I reckon there will be changes to the Eve client in the not too distant future to stop this from working. There's not much point in CCP saying it's against the EULA and banning it at the moment, as it doesn't "hook" Eve, so can't really be detected reliably. My opinion is that if it's not in the game, it's not in the game.
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.04.21 07:36:00 - [333] If this is posible, its also very easy to make this program go even further and add a macro to it... very simple really.. {if} blah bla code go to!! ( im not aprogramer lol ) but i see it would be very damn easy. removing local is a bad idea thou! it would be to easy to kill people then! way to easy! OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2008.04.21 07:38:00 - [334] ps how many times have this socalled pathetic alliance used this tool for when in war ??? how many did it save ? is the programe they have not altered to give more info ??? lots of questions... i would ban the entire alliance..
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.04.21 07:58:00 - [335] If this ridiculous tool still exists when the CSM election is done, that will be the very first issue I'll take before the council, to be discussed directly with the devs at the first meeting. This is taking the metagaming and third-party application more than just one step too far. And the worst is that this is only one such tool of many. The rest of the alliances that use third-party software to help them win wars and/or farm ISK just doesn't speak up publicly, for fear of having their tools outlawed. Bored during Downtime? Why not try Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN!
Talarn Kalarn	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:05:00 - [336] Originally by: Esmenet If this gets approved by CCP i will probably quit the game. Can I have your stuff?
Thirzarr	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:08:00 - [337] ARGH! Please, if you do not know what kind of programming you are talking about just don't. For all I see it just parses a plain-text-file. This contains Names and time. Thats it. To find out the sec-status, you would need to do a DB-Query ingame. To automate something like "warp to & cloak" you would need to connect a Makro-System to the parsing system (or add the parser to the Makro-System) and that would clearly break the EULA. As far as I can see this doesn't really do anything but get you an info on join/leave in local. It's not dramatic... It's not overly usefull... except for the moments you spend afdesktop. shrugs Well coded. Thanks for sharing. Won't use it though, I guess I like punishment.
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:19:00 - [338] Edited by: techzer0 on 21/04/2008 08:19:48 Originally by: Thirzarr ARGH! Please, if you do not know what kind of programming you are talking about just don't. For all I see it just parses a plain-text-file. This contains Names and time. Thats it. To find out the sec-status, you would need to do a DB-Query ingame. To automate something like "warp to & cloak" you would need to connect a Makro-System to the parsing system (or add the parser to the Makro-System) and that would clearly break the EULA. As far as I can see this doesn't really do anything but get you an info on join/leave in local. It's not dramatic... It's not overly usefull... except for the moments you spend afdesktop. shrugs Well coded. Thanks for sharing. Won't use it though, I guess I like punishment. Ok, it's programmed to play a sound out of game... Sooo instead or warp+cloak, add in an out of game line of code that terminates the EVE process. Instant ctrl+q, and not bannable by any means. ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Luh Windan Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:36:00 - [339] Originally by: techzer0 Ok, it's programmed to play a sound out of game... Sooo instead or warp+cloak, add in an out of game line of code that terminates the EVE process. Instant ctrl+q, and not bannable by any means. So first of all I see that you need to make the standings list yourself. So how many people who can't even be aresed sitting at their keyboard are going to go to all the effort of doing that. Secondly - this code is open source and they are making an effort to comply with CCP demands - so they are not going to be adding the ctrl-q feature. So the only way to get this is to add the code yourself. So - is this game breaking? given that a) out of the box it is useless - because unless you have a standings list it is just a beep when someone leaves or enters local and b) any ctrl-q features will only be added by people who can code and want to cheat - and lets face it the game already has much more serious problems with bots than this one. A good thing - may be not The sky is falling - I don't think so
Elis Verone Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.21 08:57:00 - [340] well listen.. i would as allaince if i were to use this crap program. make it upload all data about who enters etc into a alliance DB. we then can see who of the enemies move where all the time... have a few n00b scout alts in surounding systems and the DB will keep being updated.. this is done very very simple... and if ccp says yes to this sort of program ill sure as hell make that.. would be such a sweet tool.. for 00 alliance warfare.. as i see it it would be the end of eve. and only make eve pvp even more about blobbing gates... atm all pvp is about is who have the biggest fleet.. its irelevant with skills. etc... its irelevant if u have 100 officer fitted bs if the enemy send in 1000 frigs.. its just starting to be plain silly.
Scout McAlt	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:15:00 - [341] Originally by: Elis Verone atm all pvp is about is who have the biggest fleet.. its irelevant with skills. etc... its irelevant if u have 100 officer fitted bs if the enemy send in 1000 frigs.. its just starting to be plain silly. 100 BS + 1 Cov Ops can massacre any number of frig fleets. Tactics beats numbers
Diicc Tater Aggressive Tendencies Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:15:00 - [342] Originally by: Batolemaeus Originally by: Siigari Kitawa it breaks the spirit of the game. Exactly my thought. QFTMFT
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:17:00 - [343] Can I ahve stuff from all those people who will quit today because CCP has approved this program? _________________ It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(
Sha4d13 Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:25:00 - [344] Originally by: Thirzarr ARGH! To automate something like "warp to & cloak" you would need to connect a Makro-System to the parsing system (or add the parser to the Makro-System) and that would clearly break the EULA. . And just how would anyone be able to identify and prove that breach? Thats right- they cant... And if you think that large swathes of farmers, not to mention many alliances in this game would not use such a tool in that way- you are incredibly naive. This tool is cheating- plain and simple. The sooner CCP take action upon it the better.
Herring Caldari Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:27:00 - [345] Originally by: Ishina Fel If this ridiculous tool still exists when the CSM election is done, that will be the very first issue I'll take before the council, to be discussed directly with the devs at the first meeting. This is taking the metagaming and third-party application more than just one step too far. And the worst is that this is only one such tool of many. The rest of the alliances that use third-party software to help them win wars and/or farm ISK just doesn't speak up publicly, for fear of having their tools outlawed. This. Anything that eliminates risk for some of the people all of the time is a bad, bad thing. Boost patch...nerfs: 1) faction passive shield resistance amplifiers, 2) exploration radar sites, 3) faction co-processors
UKM Thorgrim Caldari Laughing Leprechauns Corporation	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:47:00 - [346] PVP is hard enough catching people, with log offski's, hiding in station, insta warp, and other assorted crap , Now with this programme out and about its going to get even worse. BAN The programme & it's use from game, or just stop all PVP all togeather and kill the rest of the Eve game off. If this application gets to wide ingame use i'll just quit. Honour & Steel.
Il Reverendo Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.04.21 09:54:00 - [347] BanBACONBeetracker!
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Soul of Fountain	Posted - 2008.04.21 10:25:00 - [348] I'm against out of game tools, but IMHO CCP really should make this sort of information available through using plug ins ala world of warcraft. The UI and options of eve is and always have been horrible. Allowing players to create addons would improve the game greatly. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Primnproper	Posted - 2008.04.21 10:26:00 - [349] I don't see how having this programming running with an alt scout is any different from having your 5 year old (for example) watching local on your alt with orders to shout "Daddy!!!", when people with red bits on them appear.... And further more surely our amazingly advanced neural interfaces should be able to play a warning sound for this sort of thing already...
Commoner Caldari Emergent Chaos Bedlam Consortium	Posted - 2008.04.21 10:27:00 - [350] This is very interesting. For the following reasons: 1) The application provides no intel that local doesn't already give you, the only thing changed is the way it's communicated. 2) BACON is in a grey area as far as legality goes, it's impossible to track the use of it. And who knows? Maybe someone else has a similiar home made program on their own computer? 3) It raises som very valid questions as to whats allowed and what's not. Generally i fail to see the usefulness of this tool to macrominers, mentioned by a lot of players, as they already have far more effective tools for that. Par se i'm not against this sort of application, don't intend on using it as EVE is already running slow on my computer as it is. It's good that the announcement has been public, and i really hope that CCP learns from this, hopefully we could have local removed and introduce a much more immersive warning system (thinking - submarine ping and beeps - limited range pinger). I want sound in eve The worst pvp'er in EVE :
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.04.21 10:33:00 - [351] Originally by: UKM Thorgrim If this application gets to wide ingame use i'll just quit. As many times as I read this it never fails to make me chuckle. Of course my first thought is "Yeah right". Then it is almost, without fail, "so what". I'm sorry if this would be enough to make you leave Eve but I have to be honest; besides those few close to you - who cares? Despite the ever touted "mass exodus" that seems to always, and inevitably, be on the horizon somehow the same "I'll quit if..." people are still here quitting. Quit, please, just go ahead and quit. Stop toying with us... do it, now. Exactly. So let's get back to discussing, endlessly, how game breaking this is. How devastating to your world this is going to be... My goodness, what would eve be without all the emoing drama queens. If only more of them could construct sentences and use punctuation as well. Alas... To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Shiverau FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.04.21 10:38:00 - [352] Edited by: Jessica Lorelei on 21/04/2008 10:38:49 if the ships computer sees fit to play a hideous warp noise despite space being SILENT, why the hell cant it play a noise when someone enters local? what kind of backwards ship designer forgot to add that feature? ccp add audio alerts and be done with it.
Darcuese Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:10:00 - [353] Edited by: Darcuese on 21/04/2008 11:11:40 Welcome to Macronity and Farminity. Trinity, how things used to be once me, myself and I ------>
Sindayn Itai Marmite.	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:34:00 - [354] Originally by: Commoner This is very interesting. For the following reasons: 1) The application provides no intel that local doesn't already give you, the only thing changed is the way it's communicated. 2) BACON is in a grey area as far as legality goes, it's impossible to track the use of it. And who knows? Maybe someone else has a similiar home made program on their own computer? 3) It raises som very valid questions as to whats allowed and what's not. Generally i fail to see the usefulness of this tool to macrominers, mentioned by a lot of players, as they already have far more effective tools for that. Par se i'm not against this sort of application, don't intend on using it as EVE is already running slow on my computer as it is. It's good that the announcement has been public, and i really hope that CCP learns from this, hopefully we could have local removed and introduce a much more immersive warning system (thinking - submarine ping and beeps - limited range pinger). I want sound in eve I totally agree with your post up to the point your view was expressed on how local should be delt with. Players should not be piggy-backing this program/discussion to force the long standing issues that a portion of the population have with local and how it currently works. The local issue has just as much controversy as this program does. Stick to the point at hand, which is the program. I does not break game mechanics as CCP currently set them. On a Technicality, it does alter the base code mechanics of how local is currently programed to work. I see it as a double edged sword, working as intended but undermining.
retlaw	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:42:00 - [355] This is simply a tool that one can use or not use. The fact that all the kill krazy kiddies don't want you to know when they are around is prove it is a good tool. If hulks and haulers and freighters were 100 isk apiece there would be no need for a tool like this. Sorry kids some people don't play this game to get shotup all the time. And before you go on about real life and all that bs,I lived where everytime you had to watch out when you walked down the streets. That place was the upper west side of Manhattan,New York City,where "West Side Story" was made about,and yes I was in a gang too.
Archa Caldari Chickens with an Attitude No Law	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:49:00 - [356] another sad macro program to destroy eve as we know it. what a sad day.
Jones Maloy Minmatar Unified Naval Command	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:53:00 - [357] woot go bacon! Unofficial Official Jita Fubar Thread
Kay Han Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:58:00 - [358] even if i can see a reason for this tool (at least i think i see it) i totally sign the "Anti-Bacon" calls. CCP needs to stop this now. but onthe other hand they also didnt do anything against the GS/remedial ** icon crap. Originally by:** CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
Kvirie Caldari Children of the Wind	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:59:00 - [359] Originally by: Alyx Alyn Originally by: Kvirie Originally by: Minuteman people should have lives outside EVE etc Then log out. If you are going to play a game, then play it. If you're going to split your focus, then accept that you're going to be hindered. I lost a Retriever because I alt-tabbed and 3 npcs spawned and killed me. Maybe we should have a Bacon-type program that tells me when I get targeted, or maybe once I'm at half shields? Maybe when i reach armor? Having sound on and auto-lockbacks enabled probably would've saved you FYI. Max targets (2) locked already. It's ok, the trit I mined prior let me make enough shuttles to but several more barges.
Thargat Caldari North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.04.21 12:02:00 - [360] Meh... the forum ate my poast. And since it's a beast one shouldn't feed too often I'm not going to retype it all so I'm gonna keep it simple (ctrl-c I KNOW I KNOW). So: Good work with producing an app like this (it takes time and effort and such things should be Kudos for letting it out in the open (open source and all) and taking a debate over it on the forums (aswell as asking CCP beforehand). Some people doesn't seem to like this, I'm not surprised. But the outcry is a bit stunning. Apps like this have been around for AGES in eve. You may scream and complain all you want, but the simple fact is that CCP must have been well aware of the possibility of things like this happening when they decided to release the logserver app for the public to use (risk vs reward). Me personally hate it, not because of what it is (since it's not nearly as sophisticated as some of the macros out there) but because that anything that allows a player to be "non-active" in his eve-play is bad. Bad because it's about players interacting with players, and bad because it makes life for macroers even easier (no need to buy a macro when someone already has done half the work for you). WTZ, autopilot and afk cloaking are things that (in my oppinion) destroys some of the greatness of eve and every encounter with a non-responsive (possibly afk) player leaves a bitter taste. I belive that there is very little that CCP can do about things like this (removing local has been mentioned, but there are other instances where similar apps will/or already are being applied) without crippling the situational-awareness elements in the UI to an unreasonable degree. I'm NOT however a game designer, and I'd love to have CCP prove me wrong. The guys who made this app (gunfleet) do NOT deserve all the crap the community has been billowing out. They made an app, asked CCP if it was OK, was given approval and released it to the community. Nothing wrong with that... There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius.

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It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :(