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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
August Hayek
Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:01:00 -
[631]
Tri and PL are whining, because CCP nerfs their almost invincible nano tactics.
You made my day 
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:01:00 -
[632]
 Originally by: CCP Dionysus
The basic speeds in the 1k-3k/sec areas are basically untouched, in fact boosted in a few cases.
O rly? Tell that to <everyone with an MWD>.
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
This weekend's knee-jerk comments will be taken with a large grain of salt.
This was not a smart thing to say, as it sounds like you mean all comments this weekend are worthless, which was probably not your intention. Especially since there is, you know, this thread.
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DesuSigs |
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CCP Dionysus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:01:00 -
[633]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
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Zikka
Hematite Rose
Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:01:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Mitsuni Abashadoni
If CCP says that all NPC bounties will be cut in half, I'm pretty sure you'll say that it's a bad idea even before they've tested it ;)
Which is a far more simple change. There are a lot of factors combining here and many of them actually work in the vagabonds favour. It's higher base speed means it won't be stacking nerfed so badly. Reduced webs mean that one web no longer = death, etc.
Nano ships were overpowered, MWDs were overpowered, webs were overpowered, warp scramblers were underpowered, the Arazu was underpowered. All of those points are addressed by these changes and until it has been tried we cannot say how much they have got right or wrong.
(And as a side point actually I might not say it is a bad idea, it would depend on what other changes were made at the same time. Isk is too easy to get in Eve.)
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Matrix Skye
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:01:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Matrixcvd
No, absolutely not and I am afraid we have detected humans that can't breath but are still walking. Oxygen helps your thinking chief. Do you even use your brain? MWDs stopping to scramblers. All MWDs getting the same boost, the list goes on and on.
For all of you nutjobs in this game and especially at CCP, I have seen 1, thats it 1 vaga go over 9k/s. 3 Intys around 24k/s. THATS IT. ALl of this nonsense you keep bringin up is just total garabage and has been brought on by FW. WHen you listen to complete PVP failures, will see how this game lasts
hi matrixcvd :) will you be quitting now? id like to has your stuffz. dont let the door hit you on your way out. quit yer whining. go back to wow, etc etc etc. kthxbie o/
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Saturn 5
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:01:00 -
[636]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
1 line flippant comments are not very helpful.
Neither is openly negating the opinion of your user base. Although, I do appreciate the honesty.
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Asero
does anyone else think it's funny that this is a falcon boost?
since now it will take forever to get up at them form 200km away?
Falcon is a specialized jamming ship, it can't hit with any weapons at that range so all it can do is jam. You can get snipers that can hit a Falcon as far out as the Falcon can jam. If you build a falcon for long range jamming it goes down pretty fast to a sniper.
If you take balanced gangs out to PvP with and set light drones on jammers they will have to disengage or they will be taken down very quickly.
Nano shouldn't just be the quick fix which is anti-everything, people should take balanced gangs vs other balanced gangs. If someone has EW then you should try taking an EW ship or have a contingency to counter it. Having the one-ship-do-everything because it travels at ridiculous speeds is just an easy cop out.
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GETMEDOWNFROMNYAHH
Minmatar
Basement Innovations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[638]
O-M-G WE ARE ALLL GOING TO DIE! :(
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Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[639]
Too much, too soon.
The changes miss the mark. The biggest change, that to the scrambler, has no impact on nanocruisers, which operate outside of web range. The changes in speed have no real impact in ability to disengage (the real power of nano) because the changes are across the board.
The changes are way too big. They should be done slowly, one at a time. This is balancing. When you balance something, you change things slowly, one at a time, until you've hit an equilibrium. There are at least 5 or 6 massive changes in this blog that will impact EVERY ship - not just nanoships.
Binary effects - get rid of them!! You said you wanted rid of the binary style of the current webifiers, then you go and add an absolute binary module in the form of the new scrambler. WTS: Some consistency.
Horrible blog. right intentions, completely the wrong implementation.
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Miklas Laces
A.N.A.R.C.H.I.C.A
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[640]
50% webifier is the most stupid thing I ever heard.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[641]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Why in the hell would you fit a ship like that?
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Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[642]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
If you come back with a thought through and intelligent commentary on these proposals, then we can understand what and why you are making them. 1 line flippant comments are not very helpful.
Let me try something different and be constructive then for a minute:
Why do all of these changes have to go into effect at once? Why can't you fix polycarbons, which are broken, next week, and then take three weeks to see how it pans out on the real server? If that doesn't fix it enough, look at more stacking penalties, or gang bonuses, and then take a few weeks to see if that balances enough.
Nanos have been a staple of PvP for years, and people have been complaining about them for just as long; why the sudden rush to "fix" them all of a sudden?
---
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Aenis Veros
Caldari
Alphaflight
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Gypsio III
You'll still be able to dictate range.
You'll still have the buffer to take considerable fire.
You'll still be able to disengage at will.
Unless there's an Arazu in the enemy's gang. Then you'll sit still and die. Wonderful act of balancing.
Quote:
You'll still whine.
You'll still be clueless.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:02:00 -
[644]
Originally by: Murina
cos with 14 kills and 8 losses in your entire eve career it seems that you should hardly care about pvp?.
Like i said i mean no offence i just find it interesting that a lot of the pro nano nerf ppl are hardly what i would consider active pvpers?.
Depends what you consider active.
Active? yes
Passionate? yes
Regular? yes
In 0.0? no, but the rub is that nano-ships aren't 0.0 specific. If they were then sure, I'd have no place to comment, but they can be flown anywhere. You don't see huge BS blobs in low-sec or high-sec that often, but you do see nano-ships.
As for my personal kills, well anyone in the Amarr militia will tell you that you can go out quite a lot and just not see any action because the alternative is engaging large fleets, so it's not like I'm unsympathetic to the difficulties blobs cause. I just don't feel nano-ships are the right solution.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Asero
Lilium Venture Initiative
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:03:00 -
[645]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
you do realize that fit costs somewher ein the range of FOUR BILLION ISK right?
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:03:00 -
[646]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
- Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier.
This is only correct when fighting ships with multi-bonused MWDs, where the MWD sig radius penalty is dwarfed by the MWD speed factor. If these two numbers are equal, then the ship is just as hard to track whether or not the MWD is active, and the weaker web means that it's going three times as fast as before and becomes much harder to hit.
I'd suggest reducing the sig radius penalty on MWDs somewhat to compensate for this, or perhaps balancing it in some other way.
Zzz research towers
Direrie
NEW: Liekuri
20:1 low-end compression |
facialimpediment
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:04:00 -
[647]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Translation pt2: yelling "the sky is falling" without even seeing the changes is not very helpful. Some of the comments in here have been interesting and useful, others not so much. thats what "grain of salt" is all about. If you come back with a thought through and intelligent commentary on these proposals, then we can understand what and why you are making them. 1 line flippant comments are not very helpful.
A lot of people are yelling about the sky falling because it's pretty obvious that the dev team has never tried to solo-gank a ratter, nor actually experienced daily PvP of the sort that these changes potentially break. Killing a drake or a raven is about to become even more impossible due to a speed change, when an alternate fix that would've worked is adjusting the capacitor of HACs (such as the sacrilege) so that a ship can not use a MWD for a long period of time (such as a vagabond). I agree that speeds are pretty absurd right now, but completely breaking the way the game works without experiencing half of the stuff HAC pilots do doesn't make much sense. |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:04:00 -
[648]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Wait, is this the 4km/s Vagabond.
Holy... How about actually flying it without snakes, like 90% of EVE's nano population.
Click me! You know you want to... |
Elmicker
Wreckless Abandon
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:04:00 -
[649]
Quote:
No special named modules etc.
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Implants. full snake set.
Quote:
full snake set.
Quote:
snake set
...
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Hortoken Wolfbrother
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:04:00 -
[650]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
SO did that 4km/s vaga not really have T2 lows but Republic fleet ODs? come on now tell us the truth, T2 polys with there 7& bonus... You can tell us you got that number right off EFT wiht all the best implants and fittings, barely broke 4km/s, and btw breaking 4km/s doesnt mean 4028m/s either.
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Lol 4x Speed mods and no nano type mods. Fail
Also, this only barely broke 4k? Jesus the nerf is worse than i thought.
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lebrata
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:04:00 -
[651]
Originally by: August Hayek
Tri and PL are whining, because CCP nerfs their almost invincible nano tactics.
You made my day
10 kills 3 losses ever in your time in eve?..why do you even care about any pvp nerf or boost?.
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XxAngelxX
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:04:00 -
[652]
I think we all know which group of the groups of people who are for and against this change are the ones with strategies, tactics and experience in PVP. Old school players who think this will put eve back the way it was, you are the ones not adapting, using tactics and strategies. You will continue to be dissapointed. Part time PVPers - the ones who gang up, warp to a gate, get picked off by nanos and post in eve general - you will be happy until a new strategy that works against your massive T1 blobs with capital support and titans and jump bridge capabilities, then you will start whining again.
CCP Dionwhatever (sorry I don't care what you said enough to read your name) thanks for the headsup that our knee jerk reaction, while making more sense than your dear co-workers dev blog in several points which were addressed already in this thread, is going to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Our knee jerk reaction is no where near in comparison to your 5 hour knee jerk blanket changes. The nano tactic evolved due to other changes your esteemed colleagues made to the game (capital ships, cyno jammers etc), different strategies developed from it and many, many hours of PVP went into becoming good at it. If the whiners spent the same amount of time PVPing then they'd be killing nano'd ships.
Blanket changes sending waves through the entire PVP / 0.0 / Lowsec area of the game is not what is needed to combat people who spend a lot of isk on their speed ships.
Bring poly stats down to be inline with T2 Nanos, decrease drops on faction microwarp drives and speed mods in the loot tables, and you have a fix.
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Dance Puppets, Dance |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[653]
Originally by: August Hayek
Tri and PL are whining, because CCP nerfs their almost invincible nano tactics.
You made my day
You're still going to be shit with or without a nano-nerf, and we're still going to beat you like a ***** after the nano-nerf. Count on it.
---
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Matrixcvd
Caldari
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[654]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Originally by: Matrixcvd
No, absolutely not and I am afraid we have detected humans that can't breath but are still walking. Oxygen helps your thinking chief. Do you even use your brain? MWDs stopping to scramblers. All MWDs getting the same boost, the list goes on and on.
For all of you nutjobs in this game and especially at CCP, I have seen 1, thats it 1 vaga go over 9k/s. 3 Intys around 24k/s. THATS IT. ALl of this nonsense you keep bringin up is just total garabage and has been brought on by FW. WHen you listen to complete PVP failures, will see how this game lasts
Yes, I make sure to always keep my oxygen tank firmly strapped and active.
The speeds that are being nerfed are exactly those huge speeds. Ship travelling in the 2-5km/s or so range won't feel this too badly.
your not just adjusting speeds, your fundementally altering gameplay because you need to justify a stupid module that has no justification? I have stated this thousands of times before, its called DARWIN. The AB is not useful for PVP so let it just die. All you are doing is dramatically changing the game to polish off your egos because, CCP can't possibly make a module thats not useful for PVP. But all you are doing is increasing the blob factor EVERY TIME YOU TOUCH THE CORE ELEMENTS OF PVP. You can't test that on SiSi, you dont know what these changes will do to PVP when they get into the hands of mindless losers in the failure cascade of giagantic blob alliances. You have no idea.
If it was to stop the 20+km/s intys and 10km/s vagas then so be it but it appears you have taken it upon yourselves to play God for the sake of playing God, why dont you all go stroke something else instead of your beards and realize the ridiculousness in all the things that you do when you get so high and mighty and then laugh about it... utter garbage.
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The Mach
Reikoku
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[655]
Edited by: The Mach on 25/07/2008 16:07:38
CCP, no offensebut..... you kinda missed the water when you fell out of the nano ship.
...
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[656]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 25/07/2008 16:05:34
Originally by: Aenis Veros
Originally by: Gypsio III
You'll still be able to dictate range.
You'll still have the buffer to take considerable fire.
You'll still be able to disengage at will.
Unless there's an Arazu in the enemy's gang. Then you'll sit still and die. Wonderful act of balancing.
Quote:
You'll still whine.
I'm still clueless.
Explain to me the difference between current Rapier and future Arazu. The dynamics are effectively the same.
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facialimpediment
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[657]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
Ok let me repeat myself. I will repeat the lines so you understand it too.
NOT ALL HAC PILOTS FLY SNAKED-OUT PODS, THEY ARE THE MINORITY.
NOT ALL HAC PILOTS FLY SNAKED-OUT PODS, THEY ARE THE MINORITY.
NOT ALL HAC PILOTS FLY SNAKED-OUT PODS, THEY ARE THE MINORITY.
Can you at least provide statistics about the amount of snake sets sold and used, since you're so adamant about fitting HACs with them? |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[658]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Vagabond:
High: nothing
Med: 10mn microwarpdrive
Low: Overdrive Injector System II x2
Rigs: Auxilliary thrusters II x2
Implants. full snake set.
No special named modules etc.
hahahahaha
---
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Lil'Bunneh FoFo
Uranus Assault Team
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:05:00 -
[659]
CCP > We're gonna crap on your gameplay
Playerbase > We're gonna crap on your thread
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Dez Affinity
Ore Mongers
Black Hand.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 16:06:00 -
[660]
Originally by: CCP Dionysus
Translation pt2: yelling "the sky is falling" without even seeing the changes is not very helpful. Some of the comments in here have been interesting and useful, others not so much. thats what "grain of salt" is all about. If you come back with a thought through and intelligent commentary on these proposals, then we can understand what and why you are making them. 1 line flippant comments are not very helpful.
No it's not that at all, it's that the player base obviously has foresight which CCP employees are currently lacking. You think nerfing webifiers is a good thing? Yeah THE best counter to nanos which also are NEEDED by other ships to track their target. Then make it so you can have your MWD turned off by someone else without capping them out first? Yeah that will be fun, 1 Inty completly messes you up, since you can't track it back, since your web does nothing.
You might also notice that the main people who are for this pathetic excuse for a development of the game are also the ones in unknown corps, who rejected the VARIETY of counters that exist already for disabling nano ships.
Myself, personally, I fly blaster ships, before that I flew missile ships, I know how it is to fight against nanos. It's pretty easier to either a) kill the nano or b) make it run away. Either way you don't die. As a player who doesn't regularly fly nano I don't see any reason to nerf it in it's current state, the clever players counter it, the ******ed players sit and whine because they can't figure out how to counter it.
Don't give into to the noobs, instead teach them to not be noobs, you can tell them how, maybe they will listen to you.
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