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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2009.01.15 10:20:00 - [721] I hope this doesn't get buried, but what about a no GFX option - just the Map display - i.e. with no rendering of models , so you could still operate in the station \| space with no nice effects to see - just using the Overview + map -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
AnyOldIron	Posted - 2009.01.15 10:33:00 - [722] it looks to me as if the issue is not just whether the majority of players can run the premium client on their hardware or not but whether they want to ! I have read every single post in this topic it`s virtually all i`ve been doing since this announcement was made. I upgraded my machine to an sm 3.0 capable AGP card months ago to run premium along with my wife on her s**y new quad core machine, but hey guess what ! I hated the premium content and went back to classic ,like quite a few people here i believe the gameplay is more important - but maybe that`s just us older players who actually remember Elite. my eldest son loves great graphics , but then no game ever written still appeals to him after he`s played it for 2 weeks. so is this the sort of player base you want ??? BTW the reason all i`ve been doing is reading this forum since the announcement is that without the ability to play the way i want to , i just don`t have the heart left in me to play. IT`s a shame really my kids got me into this game because i was disillusioned with the rest of the * that`s available. so if as people have presumed that this change is all because of walking in stations, i really hope you manage to increase your player base and keep them as long as you`ve kept players who don`t care about gfx content,i really do wish that for you CCP... but the question is in a global economic crisis WILL you ?
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:05:00 - [723] so much for Ambulation being optional ... CCP forgot to mention the 2nd part: the whole client will require SM3. basicaly we cannot opt out of Ambulation (well we can cancel subs ...) good job CCP, very good job. I just hope you release the number of dropped subs after you drop SM2 clients.
Lara Torrin Gallente Torrin Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:12:00 - [724] I can currently play the game on my eeepc.. Well, I say play.. I can log in and setup contracts, and (semi)AFK hall through highsec.. My eee has a GMA950 which only support SM2 (and even then mostly in software). If SM2 were to be dropped then I wouldn't be able to play work, which is pretty much the only time I play with my 2nd account. So while I would continue to play with my main, I'd probably drop back to 1 subscription.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:14:00 - [725] Hi. In my desktop PC I have a video card that cost Ç120 one year ago when I bought it; that's a lowest-end mainstream card. It supports Shader Model 4.0, runs EVE Premium with HDR on and high shadows and everything cranked up at 1680x1050 with 30 to 60 (VSync) FPS depending on situation. I also like the premium content a whole lot and haven't looked back since I tried it out for the first time. So, this whole deal does not touch me at all. It furthermore shows how extremely easy it is to run EVE premium content at acceptable framerates. I could probably double or triple my FPS effortlessly if I configured the video settings specifically for it. However, I'd like to say that I don't think discontinuing SM2 by the end of 2009 is a good idea, unless you have a very specific reason why you absolutely must develop art content for the winter expansion that is impossible to downscale in any way whatsoever. I don't think it is wise to phase out rendering paths faster than the industry introduces new ones (which generally happens around once per 2 years, with fluctuation). So 2 render paths phased out in three quarters of a year is ratehr drastic. If you must, I would phase out SM2 for the summer 2010 expansion, or whenever you decide to start developing SM4 or higher art assets (summer 2009 will see the advent of SM5 compatible video cards). There are a few issues that need to be understood when it comes to people upgrading their computers: The people who have new machines now are likely to keep having new machines. The people who are running 10 year old hardware now are likely to still run the same hardware in another 10 years, just because they can. This sadly enough means that it makes no sense to support a classic client as a transition measure, because these people will not transition. It sadly also means that these people will be lost as customers. Harsh, but this is reality - I doubt that any of the people who complain now that they cannot afford machines newer than 10 years at the moment will be planning an upgrade in the coming years either. It just won't be happening for them. The hardware industry and the laptop/netbook boom. It's the hip thing of today. If you buy a "clunky" desktop you are "so 2001", if you buy a "next-gen" notebook you are "trendy" and "equipped for the future". Desktops are dead and useless, laptop sales are skyrocketing! And look, you can even get a full-blown PC for just Ç200. That works really well because people are conditioned to tiny monitors and keyboards from their cellphones anyway. But what advertising never tells you is the fact that you're often buying half the performance of a desktop of the same price... half the performance of something that can two years later be upgraded for a faction of the original price to double in performance again. And then there's battery life. I am really sorry, but if there's one complaint about modern games I absolutely cannot understand, it is "I can't enjoy fancy graphics because they drain my battery". Welcome to the 21st century - where people use electricity to power machines! All in all: you bought a laptop, you did not buy a gaming computer, no matter what advertising told you. If you can run games, that's a great boon, not a privilege. If these games continue to move on to better technology, you will be left behind with an extremely unflexible piece of technology. And WHEN people buy a desktop, they often buy a Dell. Who has ripped off customers with completely horrible and and overpriced low-performance video cards for 10 years straight now. So all in all, I am advocating the step away from the classic client. But given the above reasons, you will probably lose too many customers if you axe the SM2 code path to quickly afterwards too. Those who can upgrade, will eventually; just give them time and don't put them off. Those who can't, won't; not now and not in 5 years.
eXeGee GBTeam G00DFELLAS	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:18:00 - [726] Edited by: eXeGee on 15/01/2009 11:21:52 Edited by: eXeGee on 15/01/2009 11:21:29 Edited by: eXeGee on 15/01/2009 11:19:57 I hope im wrong, but seems that ccp is followin the world's game trend - focus on dizzy, shiny graphics instead of focus on creating really good gameplay. Why sacrafice resources for better gameplay if you can make use of resources to catch more kids willing to pay the candy-look game? Yes... i hope im wrong... btw. i guess its end of linux client also?
eldeago	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:18:00 - [727] Ok times are hard everywhere, I just got laid off work and there is a million things my dollar must go to. I planned on some of it going here. But there is no way I can afford to do a computer make over at this time. As a computer tech, I will tell you you are going to find that most of your players are running low end machines. Besides being unfair to those, I think you will be losing about 60% of your clientele. Hell 55% of all computer users are still on 38k modems. I hate to see all the time I and others have put into our game go out the window, just so you guys can make it pretty! Hell the lag on the server was hec today. But then if you don't care for your players then have at it. Hope you don't I have changed my card twice already. I will not do it again just for a game. Even this one!! Stay in touch with reality and your players or you may be loseing more than you think! just my thoughts. oh I know that most players in my Corp are on low end machines. My thoughts anyway!
Sebies Mini	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:24:00 - [728] Edited by: Sebies Mini on 15/01/2009 11:25:52
CAPTAIN FAECES	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:26:00 - [729] Heh, people with multiple accounts saying they'll quit EVE because they can't afford to upgrade is pretty hilarious. Also, my laptop cost less than 400 euro almost a year ago, and has NVIDIA GeForce 8200M G (which supports 4.0). I definitely think EVE is doing the right thing with this.
Kaya Divine Gallente	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:26:00 - [730] My proposal is humble and balanced. If only dear CCP you could leave "Classic" up to December, and in Q2of 2010 change game to "Premium" only dependent on SE 3.0. So those who wish extra sparkly game will have it, and those with lower more redundant graphic cards/laptops/notebooks... would have at least 6 more months to adapt. Yet, another request is that before any change, you make possible that at least skill training (for start) can be changed via eve-online.com So that people, who because of some material problems, like illness, accidents etc, who can`t afford in this time period new lap/cards...could continue to train and not lose subscription time.
eldeago	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:28:00 - [731] Originally by: Snyder Aringdon Originally by: Black Phlanx Edited by: Black Phlanx on 14/01/2009 11:44:48 I can understand the concerns of those that game on older laptops.. but can we get real here? Those users still using SM1 laptops, look at this. The 8800 series of cards were top of the line a year ago... nvidia phased them out in 6 months with the 9800 series... now we have the 200 series of cards completely making the 9800's obsolete. If you cannot afford anything more expensive than your ATI 850PRO then you must be getting paid in stones or something at your job. Older cards are DIRT CHEAP. You can get a Geforce 8400 GS series card for under $45 USD! Technology moves forward, either try to keep up or get left behind. Most other companies wouldn't give a rats about losing older tech users (mainly because they don't still support anything lower than SM2) so don't take your anger out on CCP just because you want to keep your Pentium 1 laptop that's still running Windows 3.1 SM1 has been well overdue to get phased out. And like above said, if you're so against it then feel free to donate all your assets to me in a trade. I don't appreciate you lack of concern and knowledge of mobile devices. First of all, laptops, as I said, don't have external cards, so we are FORCED to buy new lappys/compys to get better cards. Even so, I have a pretty good business-grade laptop (Dell Latitude D620) and upgraded NVidia card (Quadro 110M), so it's not like I'm playing with a dinosaur laptop. But even with the upgrade (two years old), I only have 4/3 ShaderModel supported hardware. Second of all, having a part-time job, attending college and being married don't add up to very much discretionary income. I don't get "paid in stones," I just have a life. Not all of us are single apartment-dwelling gamers who have the time and money to invest heavily in their gaming rigs. Those of us who aren't would like to continue to play EVE as well. Well said not all of us have rich folk or top paying jobs. Get real man, tech may go forward but pay checks are going down.
Ishina Fel Caldari Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:29:00 - [732] Originally by: eXeGee btw. i guess its end of linux client also? Or maybe... it is the start of the Linux premium client?
eldeago	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:34:00 - [733] Originally by: Draku Rykenen I fully support the end of classic and the move to premium lite. For those that will no longer be able to play it might hurt, but anyone that can spend money monthly on a computer game CAN find the means to move to an SM 3 card. You can get those cards for extremely cheap these days as the first SM 3 cards are now several generations old. The game cannot pander to the lowest common denominator for ever. It isn't healthy for the game or fair to the subscribers that wish to see EVE progress. Technology marches on. Another one who thinks cause he has money to burn every one dose. Said thing is we don't!
eldeago	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:38:00 - [734] Originally by: CCP Zulupark Originally by: Gerome Doutrande Are you also considering laptops when looking a sm 2/3 support? What would be the implications for those when going to sm 2 and especially sm 3? (Imagine a generic remark about laptops selling better than "proper PCs" here.) We are in fact considering laptops, most new onboard Intel cards support SM2 or SM3 (the GMA series as per here) Here we go again most new laptops. Hec every one lets run out and by a new laptop so we can play EVE. Think not.
dojocan81	Posted - 2009.01.15 11:49:00 - [735] Woot! 8700M GT wit PX 4.0 user here .. so iam ready for the next expansion!
outopian Gallente The Semi-Untied Union of Introverts	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:15:00 - [736] "...To accommodate older PCs and those who prefer to run twenty clients of EVE while they run SETI@Home and ray trace while compressing HD movies..." For once someone caters to MY Demographic. What are the chances of dual screen support? :-)
Lizzie B	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:26:00 - [737] Edited by: Lizzie B on 15/01/2009 12:32:16 Looking forward to a new client for my desktop machine but my laptop only supports SM2. Would like to still use it in work to change skills and chat, logging into station would be fine if you could make that possible. The alternative is make it possible to change skills without using the client ! Ahhhh i recon you are going to ditch Direct X and rewrite the graphics engine in OpenGL lol, would be a lot easier to run on OS other than Windoze :D
Karith Da'Kali	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:29:00 - [738] Originally by: CCP Zulupark We are in fact considering laptops, most new onboard Intel cards support SM2 or SM3 (the GMA series as per here) I found this useful for the intel Shader support http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-014257.htm My laptop is in the "Mobile Intel« 945GM Express Chipset Family" group. Which like most doesn't have hardware acceleration for graphics. I did however get confused over the difference between pixel and vertex shaders? but my question is.. Will the new client require graphics hardware acceleration?
Mistress Nyissa	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:30:00 - [739] Originally by: CCP Zulupark We are in fact considering laptops, most new onboard Intel cards support SM2 or SM3 (the GMA series as per here) Yes, and most new cars come with electric windows. Should we block all cars with manual windows from using the roads? I just find it hard to fathom that in a time when: 1) You're focusing on adding masses of new content 2) No-one has any money You would consider spending time out to make a move which will force people to spend money elsewhere, or stop spending it with you. This expansion could massively 'increase' your subscription count but instead you are taking measures to actively reduce it. Why not double the price of GTCs instead, you'd gain the extra money, probably lose just as many accounts and we'd still all think you were nuts. Just some constructive feedback, forget altering standards for 'allowing' us to play your game, focus on improving your standards (which you've had great sucess with recently, good job!) to get more people playing and make the game more enjoyable. And just an FYI, my laptop isn't particuarly old but it only supports SM 1.4, but I'm not worried because I rarely log in with it, usually on my SM3 supporting desktop. I just don't want to see loyal customers excluded because they can't spent more money not even to the game producer, to not improve but maintain their gameplay, at a time when everyone is tightening their belts...
Mordrake Orbital Anvil Technologies	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:36:00 - [740] Real question is when support for SLI config graphics card support will come in?
Ravenja	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:36:00 - [741] While I'd rather see SM 1.3 (GF4Ti or Radeon 8500) as the minimum requirement, planing to kill SM 2.0 support by the end of the year is just insane! To CCP: Graphics are NOT your priority! And if you want to add some graphics features get in game support for multi screen setups and anti aliasing...
Wishpool	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:45:00 - [742] So is premium lite kinda like what we have now when you run the premium client but disable premium graphics? I play that way not because my PC can't handle it, but because I really dislike the premium graphics on some ships.
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.01.15 12:51:00 - [743] This thread tells me, that CCP estimates on how many players that will be effected are way off the mark. I wonder who pulled those numbers out of their rear. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:05:00 - [744] Originally by: Jowen Datloran I wonder who pulled those numbers out of their rear. Must be zulupark, it is the only thing he does well, pulling things out of his arse. --
Nienna Fael Sininen Talo	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:15:00 - [745] Originally by: Karith Da'Kali I found this useful for the intel Shader support http://www.intel.com/support/graphics/sb/cs-014257.htm My laptop is in the "Mobile Intel« 945GM Express Chipset Family" group. Which like most doesn't have hardware acceleration for graphics. I did however get confused over the difference between pixel and vertex shaders? but my question is.. Will the new client require graphics hardware acceleration? GMA950 series support shader model 2.0 With the mini laptops being all the rage, I find it very useful being able to change my skills and manage market orders on my EEE PC 1000h equipped with Intel GMA945. With 2.0 support, I'll be able to happily keep on doing whatever I did before but if 2.0 support is stripped in favor of 3.0, mini laptops won't be able to launch the game anymore.
Eleanor DeAquitaine Gallente Gallente Entertainment	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:20:00 - [746] Edited by: Eleanor DeAquitaine on 15/01/2009 13:21:44 If shader 2 support is dropped I will be unable to log in on my notebook even to make skill changes which would be very annoying. If the "lite" client is nothing more than the shader 3 graphics automatically downsampled to shader 2, and it doesn't require the art people to put out significant extra work to maintain, WHY not keep that client going past the end of the year? I mean, if all you need are computers to process the downsampling, why not? Having the game run on as many computers as possible is in everyone's best interest isn't it? Forcing people into hardware upgrades in a recession year will mean lost subscribers.
Omarvelous Destry's Lounge	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:24:00 - [747] Just adding my 2-cents hoping this 'premium lite' won't happen. I like to hop on eve at work during lunch, and that crappy computer can only handle classic client (I don't think it can do shader or whatever). Please keep ghetto classic alive!
Eleanor DeAquitaine Gallente Gallente Entertainment	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:27:00 - [748] Originally by: Hikaru Kai It's not CCP's fault the economy is in the tank. Indirectly Americans are to blame for their "woes" since they stupidly voted in a president that ruined not just the economy but pretty much ever aspect of your country. CCP is trying to move on, move ahead in the development of their game. If people *** and moan about upgrading 6-10 year old hardware, on the basis they cannot afford sub $100 component(s), then they shouldn't be playing the game in the first place. This ing American attitude of wanting everything for nothing, without any work, always a "me me me" attitude, sickens me. Get over yourselves. America is not the ing centre of the universe, no matter how many attempts at installing Freedom in other countries you fail at. Stop *ing. Stop it. Originally by:** Mikalya ... So the question remains: Does CCP want to be even a more niche game requiring hardware components that a large number of their potential clients cannot meet, or will they understand that the economy is in the tank and people aren't going to upgrade equipment just to play a game? ... Great. So we can't even discuss the EVE client without some America bashing. This makes me wish my Grandfathers HADNT gone over there to prevent everyone from having to speak German.
Neylan	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:32:00 - [749] Originally by: Pivalak Originally by: farfrael How about Linux? Are you planning to continue supporting this OS? My thoughts exactly. I was looking forward to the release of an official Premium client for Linux, at last, but given the silence CCP is maintaining on that subject, I'm beginning to fear they may have decided to discontinue it. Please prove me wrong! :) GREAT! First Atari got in contact with Bioware and Never Winter Nights 2 lost its Linux und Mac support (not to mention the game wasn't as good as NWN 1). And now Atari want's to make some money with Eve Online and suddenly it's important that Eve gets better graphic at the cost of Linux support.
AnyOldIron	Posted - 2009.01.15 13:39:00 - [750] I agree with the previous poster (Neylan at time of writing). I just did a quick poll of friends in RL who play eve and those friends i`ve made online (more than 200 in all) and of those who already have the hardware nescessary nearly 80% choose to play the classic version. Makes it kind of moot whether others can upgrade or not. Are you changing this for us the players , yourselves or are you doing it for ATARI

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