| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 39 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
   |
Posted - 2009.01.17 09:31:00 -
[1051]
 Originally by: mattbucci
I purchased a new toshibia laptop last year. just a cheap budget pc. As i run both my clients on it will i still continue to be able to dual client? i only get about 20fps as it is. Here are my specs
ProcessorAMD Athlon 64 X2 TK-55 / 1.8 GHz
Multi-Core TechnologyDual-Core
Data Bus Speed800 MHz
Graphics Processor / VendorATI Radeon X1200
Video MemoryShared video memory (UMA)
Max Allocated RAM Size319 MB
Installed Size4 GB / 4 GB (max)
TechnologyDDR2 SDRAM - 667 MHz
with 4GB ram you will have no problem. GPU power is not related at the number of clients you can use because the pixels of only 1 are showing at any moment. Premium uses more memory of the computer and this is the main cause of some people being unable to play with so many programs running. |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 09:35:00 -
[1052]
Originally by: Syriana
So what do I do? I read that I'll be able to run premium-lite, but right now I only get 3-10 FPS running classic and Eve is the only program in the foreground with fewer background processes than average.
My travel compy: Inspiron 1318, Core 2 Duo T3800 @ 2.4GHz, Vista 32b, 4GB RAM, Mobile Intel 965 Express.
I'm away from home for a long next while. No solo combat for me atm... would be nice if I could. Even mission support is generally questionable for me.
the important part is.. what is running in background? I have a friend with a similar computer and in classic he gets 60+ fps . So there is something going wrong there... |
Irridius Starfire
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 09:57:00 -
[1053]
Step one (Premium Lite) sounds good -- it seems like it's not open to discussion in any case, but I like your reasoning about dual pipelines. SM1 cards are doorstops.
Step two is a lot wore worrying. My setup (AMD X4 9500, 3gb, R4850) can handle twin premiums but I run twin classics occasionally in hot weather (drops GPU memory temp by 20c) and large fleet battles. It's not just about video cards! Classic has a lighter load with regard to storage access and installation size (two premium installs may break some itty-hard drives I guess). My point is, it's not just whether certain hardware can run one Premium Lite instance, you must consider multi-clients and other reasons for running classic.
Secondly, according to the Steam Hardware Survey 20% of people have shader model 2 cards at the moment. Are you willing to force 20% of people to upgrade or quit? Another argument for maintaining SM2 support is the massive amount of laptops out there with 850's and 3100's. Although I've never tried it I'd imagine that actually playing with these chipsets would only be useful in-station, but great for market access, etc on the run.
Eve isn't an FPS or twitch-game (well, it doesn't have to be played as a twitch-game  ). Don't force people to have top hardware just because it will "look pretty". Many games currently have a shader model 2 version.
|
Lusulpher
Raddick Explorations
BlackWater.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 10:29:00 -
[1054]
Edited by: Lusulpher on 17/01/2009 10:30:18
Originally by: jokerb
Would CCP be willing to introduce a method strictly for those docked to only render in station or even less just a basic character skill change area. I only ask because I do have a tablet pc that currently will only support classic. I only use it to change skills while I'm working / class 
But I would not be surprised to find that there are many others in a similar boat. Again if its too much hassle/work not a big deal, just a humble request :)
Discussed in the largest of the presentations at Fanfest.('Taking over your life'/COSMOS 2.0 section)
They are trying to use API more to manage the client for those who can't/won't/shouldn't log in, but still need to change character stuff. pretty considerate of them. Expect update 2010/Soon(TM).
Imagine EVEMON with login abilities and market adjustment. EVElopedia is first part of this btw.
Premium Lite pleznowkay. my laptop stopped displaying the text for EVE since before Premium came out. And my desktop on reduced settings makes me miss premium graphics. Classic looks quite crappy now.
Phasing out SM2 not a good idea.
Live and Let Die...All of it...null |
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 10:44:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: Polinus
Well then you were not very smart on your choosing. If you had choosen a laptop to play eve you would have choosen one with SM3 already because of premium. You were not smart and now trying to blame others for it.
man your so stupid it hurts
|
AnyOldIron
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 10:45:00 -
[1056]
I`m fairly lucky that i only bought a 3 month subscription last time, prior to that i paid per month until i was sure i wanted to stay for the long term.
Quite a few people posting here have talked about having six or twelve month subscriptions,and they have not had enough warning for this.
Despite the disclaimers that all computer companies use in their EULA`s to cover their "backsides" -- Under British law (servers are in britain) a general contract between you and multiple clients must be seen as "Reasonable" by a Judge in a british court for it to be valid , I wonder how many judges in this country would see it as "Reasonable" that you cut off access to even 1 customer after making a 12 month contract with them without a refund . You must have had access to this information for long enough that it is going to be packaged for Atari very soon now and yet you gave Essentially NO warning to those signing up for a further 6 or 12 months.
I find this incredibly arrogant on your part considering you are not selling a one off purchase off the shelf but a commitment to provide the product (and have it PAID for again and again) for a much longer Term than those games last.
|
Gorgosti
Gallente
Green Men Incorporated
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:15:00 -
[1057]
I like the way this game heads technology-wise.
However, maintaining SM2 wouldn't cost you a bit, as you only have to write those techniques once. There's no need for you guys to update those things again after you've made them, unless you come up with something totally new that looks completely unlike anything else (ok, perhaps if ambulation gets ever in the game, you'll have to write a skinshader that can do morphing targets), but even then, that would be a function in your shader file that you use for SM3, as that would be the only vertex-shader code that has to be run. And it as that doesn't take that much instructions, you still have enough left to do the pixelshading (texture + basic shadows shouldn't be a problem if written good).
Concerning source code, you would only give yourself trouble if you remove SM2, as you have to remove all the checks at the render-methods, giving you plenty of chances to make little mistakes and debugging them can be a big pain as you would have to check every asset in the game whether or not they display correctly. Just leaving in the code won't much of an overhead, as you prove by letting it in the first half of the year.
To all the people whining that they don't have a SM2 card (even for laptops, you CAN upgrade graphics cards on those btw): Get serious.
You can probably get a gfx-card with SM2 support already on the internet for like 20$ or something.
Also, if you're writing new shader techniques anyway, I agree with what someone in the beginning posted: write a plain one, just output the pixels with their texture, no lighting etc. That'll look horrible, but it would be quick (to the gfx-card haters: it would be faster then in classic, assuming that classic doesn't use the gfx-card or uses a fixed-pipeline)
|
Polinus
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:19:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Polinus
Well then you were not very smart on your choosing. If you had choosen a laptop to play eve you would have choosen one with SM3 already because of premium. You were not smart and now trying to blame others for it.
man your so stupid it hurts
Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail.
I bought a machine to play even when premium was announced and specified as SM3. I wanted to play eve so I selected a SM3 capable machine. And as I already posted earlier I really doubt many eve players earn much less money than I do (or pay 80% import taxes as I do) so the "it was too expensive"card doe snot FIT!
If you bought a machine to do other stuff and then decide to play eve is a completely different thing. But HE said he choosen it specifically to play eve. SO he failed big time!
|
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
The Black Dawn Gang
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:22:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Gorgosti
Also, if you're writing new shader techniques anyway, I agree with what someone in the beginning posted: write a plain one, just output the pixels with their texture, no lighting etc. That'll look horrible, but it would be quick (to the gfx-card haters: it would be faster then in classic, assuming that classic doesn't use the gfx-card or uses a fixed-pipeline)
There is a huge problem on that. That would cause CCP to loose A LOT of potential new subscribers. Because new players see the game in footages in youtube or at their friends machines. When they see a crappy graphic they will most of time decide to not spend their money on eve. Simple as that. The very simple PRESENCE of low quality graphics is detrimental to the game expansion market wise. So I can understand very well CCP wanting to raise the bar.
-------------------------------------------------
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
|
Shea Klant
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:45:00 -
[1060]
Edited by: Shea Klant on 17/01/2009 11:49:14
Originally by: Jilly Serkov
Dear CCP,
If you must go to a single client architechture - why not make it the classic client ? I bet you will lose fewer veterans by moving to the lowest common denominator than you will by trying to force hardware upgrades.
Fanfest tech talk
That is why. The classic client has been optimized as much as it can, the hardware and the software, cannot support most of what they want to implement.
Yes you are correct, they would probably lose fewer veterans if they kept it, but they are not interested in running a little game for a small group of hard core games. That means the game needs to grow and that means new players. You are not going to get new players with 6 year old graphics.
Besides a lot of us "Veterans" are tired of asteroid belts with 20 rocks in them, and a graphics engine that can barely handle 100 ships on it, and space background nebula maps that pretty much only vary in color.
I see a lot of references to Half Life 2 on how they can run it on whatever clunker of a computer they have, but at the time the wailing was amazing about how the hardware demands were too high, when all they did was force everyone to upgrade past their $20 GeForce2 cards, to a $50 GeForce 3 card. That small bump gave them enough hardware to be able to make some truly wonderful games that would not have been possible with the old gear.
I don't think it's to much for CCP to ask for people to have what is considered to be a very minimal amount of hardware.
|
Mitram
Grey Group
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:49:00 -
[1061]
The premium gfx that is currently available is only of used by people with high-end systems.
- Actually when do you see the prettier ship gfx?
- When can you zoom in so close that you see it? When can you zoom in so close that you see it and concentrate on this new good art work?
- How long will you be impressed by the new good art work?
As long as there is no significant fps drop with the new gfx then go ahead. But I see a general big fps drop with premium gfx of about 30% - 50%.
Maybe an option to disable the shaders completely should be tested.
In a fleet battle no one will concentrate on the gfx. Everone will zoom out so that he gets a good overview. The problem will be stations because they are so huge that by zooming out you would end up seeing the whole station.
Maybe you could build into the gfx-engine (and the sfx-engine) that if the fps drops too much and the game would become unplayable it automatically drops gfx/sfx features.
Maybe you could build a more customizable LOD (maybe also for sfx) then just the LOD flag thats currently available. It should be possible to drop many features and even to skip some parts of the ship models.
I strongly suggest that your development team anyway test the EVE client performance on 3 years old main-stream PC's in common situations (like missions, mining, PVE) to be prepared for our angry feedback.
|
Wawollie
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:49:00 -
[1062]
Edited by: Wawollie on 17/01/2009 11:57:36
Shader model 3 minimum : means I'll have to upgrade 2 systems to be able to run still 4 clients simultaneously.
2 on my main system with SM4.0, 2 on older systems.
To me that is not a problem, however I can imagine that more ppl run eve this way.
More brainstorming :
Shader model 2.0 systems are most AGP based computers.
Just buying a new graphics card won't cut it.
To upgrade to 3.0 or 4.0 means upgrading Motherboard, CPU, Memory AND graphiccard. (most likely also new powersupply)
Read : New computer. |
Ab Tallen
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 11:51:00 -
[1063]
Originally by: Haral Reimo
You don't *NEED* a laptop. You can build/buy a desktop for far cheaper.
That's not the point though. EVE promotes an always-available / always-on lifestyle (the 0.0 sov-holding game is probably the most prominent example for that - and on the low end, there's timely skill changes). Players who participate in that kind of madness want to be able to log in at any time.
Easiest to do if have your notebook with you.
Also I guess there's a certain amount of users who play EVE just because of the modest hardware/GPU requirements in comparison to other games, and those are hit the most by any changes in that department. From my limited experience, EVE players are often not high-end PC gamers.
|
AnyOldIron
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 12:02:00 -
[1064]
A lot has been said on here about how people who can afford 2 or more accounts can afford to upgrade -- i can easily use a machine that is capable of these changes, But i would never agree that I have the right to tell others how to spend their money. It has been said many times on here that a lot of people CHOOSE to play this game because of the easy entry requirements.
WELL the interesting thing about those comments is that for a long time CCP have enabled people to buy GTC`s off other people who have more money/less time to make iskies in game.
This JUST became even easier to do because of the PLEX which must have taken at least SOME extra coding effort to make possible. So if this aspect of the game is popular enough to justify extra coding to enable those who can earn lots of iskies to essentially play without RL cash ,,,, where do all these comments about "you must be able to afford an upgrade if you can pay a subscription" stand ,in light of the fact that enough people must be using this feature to make it economically viable for CCP to write the code ???? |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 12:18:00 -
[1065]
Originally by: Andrue
If we could just render the inside of a station with environment loading disabled it would be useful. That way people relying on slightly crappy laptops can still chat to friends from their hotel room and change skills.
This.
I got a very nice stationary for playing at home, thank you very much, and I very much think it's sensible for CCP to develop "only" premium to cut workload etc etc. No problemo.
But, I often carry with me an old, 192mb (!) RAM laptop with crappy onboard card. On travels it does everything I need. I can log in, swap skills, hell I even use it for vent/TS and to log in to scout or mine (as long as I don't have to move in space it works ok). Would be sad if I had to buy a new portable PC just to change skills and run TS/vent while travelling.
One thing that impressed some of my RL friends (who I got interested in EVE) is how this game is up to date, even tho so old, and still is possible to play on a 192mb old laptop on a dialup connection while travelling.
At the very least let us be able to log in to stations just to sort training and see channels/mails to keep up to date on old PC's. That's all. Remove all graphics from a setting in options - perfect.
|
Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 12:52:00 -
[1066]
Originally by: Polinus
Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail.
If he selected his computer to play at Classic, then he didn't fail.
You don't seem accept the fact that some players don't care about Premium and so about graphics, don't you ?
Who has "Premium" only the name to be honest. I am now in Premium since only 3 months same if I had a computer who can support it since his coming out, and all things that I didn't really care, like ships & stations models as we don't zoom on them, has been redone. It is all changes that I see on Premium, ie Nothing that Classic didn't do. At least, it seems more stable on my computer so I keep it.
So select a computer to play at Premium when Classic was enough would be a wallet fail some months ago.
Anyway, it is not the real problem of this dev blog.
They can delete support of SM 1.0 if they want, but it would be more accepted if they prevent players more than only two months before. It is only a proof that CCP don't care about his customers or don't realize the difficulty for some of them to upgrade. |
SSgt Sniper
Gallente
legion of qui
Southern Connection
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 13:11:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: TripodAl
I refuse to see CCP bullied into making an inferior graphics client, an inferior game.
CCP needs to move forward no matter how badly you want to go backward.
CCP cannot expect anyone to pay for a graphically inferior game.
People like bright shiney fluffy things. If you want wireframes and map less graphics play Asteroids and Wolfenstein 3d.
Seriously, its a NETbook.
Not a GAMEbook.
Ccp cannot help you wasted your money on hardware not intended for gaming or graphics accleration of anytype.
The only reason your NETbook has this graphics accleration in the first place is to support flash and activex on websites. You sir, bought the bare mininum hardware for surfing a webpage.
In all honesty, it is flipping amazing that eve runs perfectly fine on my PII500 with a Geforce Mx200.
Im willing to bet ISK it will even loadup and operate on a Pentium Pro.
The sad thing is the scam they used to sell you this wonderful netbook is the same scam you see in Jita all day long. Caldari Navy Raven 260mil isk!
Ultimately CCP will pickup more gamers than they will lose simply from a major graphics upgrade. These days to many people the "engine" running a game is more important than the game itself.
And to repeat the point already covered several times. You can upgrade any pc less than 5 years old to play new premium! For less than 100bucks!
Originally by: Xennith
posting from my acer aspire one, while lying in bed and just before i quickly change a skill over.
am i going to be able to skillchange with my netbook once you do this, or are you considering allowing us to change skills via api if not?
For gods sake screw your 'shiny graphics' (which incidentally aren't that shiny they're UGLY) we want good gameplay. Which, for the most part, THE CURRENT SITUATION PROVIDES AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO.
I do not wish to be forced into the premium version of 'shiny'. There's a reason all three computers I have runn classic even though one of them can handle the premium. I THINK IT'S UGLY IN PREMIUM!
The game is not inferior with classic, in fact it's awesome and always was in classic. So by that logic we should dump premium graphics, right? No, you want your premium. Fine. But I want my classic.
-------
CEO of Maids. No I didn't pick the name. I've grown rather fond of it though.Poor PR in progress!
|
Mik kyo
Art of War
Exalted.
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 13:13:00 -
[1068]
Originally by: Shea Klant
I don't think it's to much for CCP to ask for people to have what is considered to be a very minimal amount of hardware.
Shader model 3 cards are not a minimal amount of hardware, its basically saying you need a new pc to play eve.
I don't think the main reason people play eve is to look at pretty graphics so what is the point in phasing out shader model 2, other than making people leave the game.
|
ArmyOfMe
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 13:17:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Polinus
Well then you were not very smart on your choosing. If you had choosen a laptop to play eve you would have choosen one with SM3 already because of premium. You were not smart and now trying to blame others for it.
man your so stupid it hurts
Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail.
I bought a machine to play even when premium was announced and specified as SM3. I wanted to play eve so I selected a SM3 capable machine. And as I already posted earlier I really doubt many eve players earn much less money than I do (or pay 80% import taxes as I do) so the "it was too expensive"card doe snot FIT!
if you had botherd to actually read his posts before you started posting crap you would have noticed that he bought the pc before there ever was any premium graphics in eve
imagine that, some of us actually played this game quite a few years before they updated the graphics
|
Bayushi Kitsuke
Gallente
Sigillum Militum Xpisti
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 13:18:00 -
[1070]
I remember back in the day that computer games was for gamers that invested into a gaming PC. Now I see people playing EvE online in systems that I would have thrown away several years ago and people playing WoW on laptops that generally wouldn't play many other games at all. Somewhere in the last few years, people now expect to play games on their **** systems.
There's a cost to being a gamer on a PC and that's keeping your system up to date. Buying a laptop for gaming of any kind has always been a BAD IDEA. Laptops are mobility only, even those that promises to run games are terrible due to heat that shortens their lifespan.
Personally, it's INSULTING as a gamer that a great game like EvE online doesn't challenge my OLD gaming system at all. I currently can easily run 4-5+ clients of eve online premium graphics. That's more clients then Everquest 2, more clients then Matrix Online, more clients then World of Warcraft. EvE online, at it's max is still eats LESS then all other modern MMOs. Personally, they NEED to move forward to be viable to their main target - Gamers. There's a new Space MMO coming out based on the Jumpgate series that will blow EvE online out of the waters. CCP realizes this and cutting out the fat (Lazy poor Americans that can't afford a gaming hobby) so they can compete with Jumpgate and other space MMOs coming out to retain their core chuck of players and continue to attract gamers. I believe this is a highly intelligent and, sadly for some, necessary move on their part.
I know this sounds mean to some, but I will be looking forward to people to stop complaining about lag because their decade old laptop isn't keeping up. Let me put it to you this way, what you guys are asking is akin to a Playstation 2 to be able to run playstation 3 games - time to upgrade to a PS3 (Which is now only $299 >_<) - same goes for computers.
Time to move on!
Another question is: you're complaining about upgrading your system - WELCOME TO BEING A PC GAMER! If your computer can't run EvE online at premium graphics chances are you can't run any of good games made in the last few years. Good luck switching to a new MMO (Most MMOs that could ever run on your crap system is gone, dead, and zipped away to game hell).
Lets move on. Gaming is a hobby to me and I'm eagerly looking forward to the next game that challenges me and makes me to upgrade my system. It means there's progress and that the games are getting better for my pleasure and enjoyment.
|
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 13:22:00 -
[1071]
Edited by: Avon on 17/01/2009 13:26:56
Originally by: Sky Marshal
Originally by: Polinus
Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail.
If he selected his computer to play at Classic, then he didn't fail.
Considering Premium hadn't even been thought of at the time, and SM3 didn't even exist, I find it hard to see how I could have choosen differently.
It was, at the time, much more powerful than most desktop PC's.
The guy is a troll, ignore him.
I remember when Premium was being talked about being worried, and then reassured when CCP stated they would continue to support Classic.
Now they have a tight deadline, and need to drop something to meet it.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Koyama Ise
Caldari
Equestrian Knight Order of Lolicon
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 13:29:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: Mitram
The premium gfx that is currently available is only of used by people with high-end systems.
used or use? Regardless not true when premium came out I ran it on my 6600GT 128MB GDDR 3 AGP 8x which at the the time was not a high end system card.
Originally by: Mitram
- Actually when do you see the prettier ship gfx?
- When can you zoom in so close that you see it? When can you zoom in so close that you see it and concentrate on this new good art work?
- How long will you be impressed by the new good art work?
If you do what I do now I can't remember the performance on my old box but when you do mission zoomed closer in and when you're docked. And people can be docked for ages. And I still look at the ships and go, "That looks pretty cool."
Originally by: Mitram
As long as there is no significant fps drop with the new gfx then go ahead. But I see a general big fps drop with premium gfx of about 30% - 50%.
Assuming they do the "Premium Lite" which they should drop both the "Premium" and the "Lite" and call it a Scaleable client. It should run faster than premium by alot. Based on experience with SM2/3 in SC:CT
Originally by: Mitram
Maybe an option to disable the shaders completely should be tested.
I figure this may not be hard though I'm not entirely sure about the Shader Model architecture so I may be incorrect.
Originally by: Mitram
In a fleet battle no one will concentrate on the gfx. Everone will zoom out so that he gets a good overview. The problem will be stations because they are so huge that by zooming out you would end up seeing the whole station.
Depends what type of fleet. If you're in a slow PoS shoot and they're aren't reinforcements yet you may be moderately zoomed in but in a big fleet fight yest. Also on smaller fleet fights or ganks you may be zoomed in.
Originally by: Mitram
Maybe you could build into the gfx-engine (and the sfx-engine) that if the fps drops too much and the game would become unplayable it automatically drops gfx/sfx features.
Maybe you could build a more customizable LOD (maybe also for sfx) then just the LOD flag thats currently available. It should be possible to drop many features and even to skip some parts of the ship models.
Would be nice yes. Though I believe if you give the people too much control over the client it may be hard to know what to set what at.
Originally by: Mitram
I strongly suggest that your development team anyway test the EVE client performance on 3 years old main-stream PC's in common situations (like missions, mining, PVE) to be prepared for our angry feedback.
I'll get my 6 year old machine that has a 6600GT (added about 2 years later I believe) and run premium on it into missions anyday... well may except for a marauder since the 10 targets won't fit onto the reso of 1280x1024 and not with the shadows on or HDR because that's more resource intensive.
Though I do agree with the people saying that the issue is timing, they should have given more warning not necessarily delay the process but warn us earlier.
P.S. When can I gets the new Nosferatu effect? I wants it.
---
Trolling a forum near you.
Originally by: rValdez5987
I dont like your sig. It fills me with rage.
I want it removed. Reported.
|
Raymond Moons
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 15:03:00 -
[1073]
It seems alot of people are complaining about the lack of warning, that CCP didn't give enough notice on the withdrawal of the classic client. It seems unreasonable to expect CCP to maintain two clients indefinately and it was good of them to continue the classic version for as long as they have done. I think the introduction of Premium last year was a good indication of the future minimum hardware requirements, so this has hardly come out of the blue.
It's convenient right now that so many of us can use old machines to play EVE (and we should be gratefull) but the future of EVE isn't going to be for very long if CCP doesn't relentlessly pursue ultra high end graphics and try to attract new subscribers by staying at the cutting edge of the MMOG community.
Personally I still use the classic graphics because of instability in Premium with multiple clients running, however I would much rather see a more configurable premium client version, then continue to use the classic that has been around for many years now.
What I would really like to see is a single client that can support multiple logins (using multiple clients is one reason why premium doesn't really cut it for many people with ageing hardware).
The fact that older graphics cards will soon be unable to play EVE is just a fact that people will have to get over, go buy a new pc or laptop or upgrade whatever you need to upgrade to continue to play. If game development stopped because you couldn't be bothered/ afford new hardware well then I guess we'd still all be playing Space Invaders!
So if you love EVE and you use old gear on a standard client it's time to catch up with last year and get ready for the future. You know it'll be worth it!
Off topic - For those of us who have real lives a web based skill changing section in the 'My Character' section or the ability to stack skills, or even to train all skills within a particular certificate now they've been introduced, would be much appreciated!
|
Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 15:24:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Una D
Graphics sells **** to idiots (consolers, wowers and similar low intelligence life). EVE sells due to it being an unique game. If shiny is only thing you have than it's game over.
So very true!!
If good graphics is the only reason to play Eve, then Eve is dead. It is the GAMEPLAY which counts ffs!!!
I care a sh!t about graphics, most Eve players do, they play Eve because of its overwhelming great gameplay!
But yeah ... if you want to become mainstream and catch in tons of n00bs who then graphics is the way and gameplay becomes unimportant.
By the way, when will we have micro-transactions in Eve? Tons of more money to earn there CCP and it is almost mainstream already also.
 |
AnyOldIron
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 15:32:00 -
[1075]
What was wrong with space invaders ??
I TOTALLY played THAT on my zx spectrum rubber key,my zx spectrum 48k+ my zx spectrum 3 and both my Amiga`s all of which i still have ! And they work -- now try saying that about a 24 yr old pc.
Getting back to that steam survey ,some of you should check it out , i did at the suggestion of others in this forum and it goes like this :-
DX 10 capable hardware on either Vista or XP roughly 49%
so i guess that`s the ones telling everyone to upgrade
29% EITHER sm 3.0 on Dx9 or sm2b on dx9
7% (roughly) TOTALLY sm2 on dx9
14% Dx8 capable hardware only (sm1.0 ??)
Now that means (depending on how the sm2b and sm3.0 % are split)
somewhere between 21% and 50% will be affected by this and thats if you ignore those of us who don`t think TECH JUNKIES make up the majority of EVE players. |
Black Phlanx
Caldari
Kingfisher Industries
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 16:03:00 -
[1076]
Edited by: Black Phlanx on 17/01/2009 16:15:51
Originally by: Etren Stokk
Originally by: Marcus Arelios
Edited by: Marcus Arelios on 14/01/2009 17:57:35
*On a side note after reading more of the posts* If you can't afford to spend 50-90 USD on a new video card, maybe you should reconsider spending 15 a month on a game, because if $50 is a problem, then a monthly cost for something you don't really need seems stupid. Also, for those complaining about the economy, if a ton of people went out to spend money on new video cards, it might help some, can't hurt. Every little bit helps. And on a similar point as originally made, if the economy affects you so much that $50 is a problem, then 15 a month should be as well.***
My point, exactly! 
I said the same thing back on page 15 and got yelled at by a ****ed off laptop user because he couldn't just go out and upgrade his card for less than $40. Well duh, I'm well aware that you cannot update a laptop, I'm not tech ignorant, otherwise I'd still be buying a Dell and not hand building my PC's. But he should have known that that fact was a gigantic red flag when he bought the thing in the first place.
I mean c'mon people, this crap happens and not just with CCP. Hell look at the **** Microsoft pulls every year or so, need I say more. I know it's not a welcome change for most, but seriously, I think CCP is trying to grab more users by showing the game is current, I don't know many ppl that would be interested in paying a sub for a title with 6 yr old graphics, do you? I love EVE, honestly when I came onboard just under a year ago I was veyr skeptical about getting back into a Pay-2-Play game after I left Planetside, but once I started to figure things out, I got myself into an awsome corp and have since then bought a second 20in widescreen and a second account and spend on average of about 30-40 hours a week on EVE in addition to holding down a fulltime job AND writing new ambient tracks that my corpies and I listen to while playing.
Finally, for those people going on and on about how you might lose your job because the eco is so bad etc, well how about you worry about working while at work instead of giving your boss a reason to fire you because you're playing around on EVE while on the clock... no, I guess that would require common sense.
|
Joleana
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 17:07:00 -
[1077]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Originally by: Una D
Graphics sells **** to idiots (consolers, wowers and similar low intelligence life). EVE sells due to it being an unique game. If shiny is only thing you have than it's game over.
So very true!!
If good graphics is the only reason to play Eve, then Eve is dead. It is the GAMEPLAY which counts ffs!!!
I care a sh!t about graphics, most Eve players do, they play Eve because of its overwhelming great gameplay!
But yeah ... if you want to become mainstream and catch in tons of n00bs who then graphics is the way and gameplay becomes unimportant.
Content isn't the issue here. Graphics has little relevance on content so I don't see what your point is. The content and gameplay in EVE isn't going to suffer because CCP upgrades the graphics.
You can argue all day that EVE players don't care about the graphics but I bet when you and everybody else started out they looked at the graphics as a benchmark for how good the game was likely to be. It is important to remain current and bring in new players because CCP needs revenue to continue delivering EVE, and the players that have been around for a year or more or probably now buying game time with their easy Isk!
|
Shea Klant
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 17:17:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: Mik kyo
Originally by: Shea Klant
I don't think it's to much for CCP to ask for people to have what is considered to be a very minimal amount of hardware.
Shader model 3 cards are not a minimal amount of hardware, its basically saying you need a new pc to play eve.
I don't think the main reason people play eve is to look at pretty graphics so what is the point in phasing out shader model 2, other than making people leave the game.
Considering SM3 came out over 4 years ago and first saw the light of day in APG cards, I'd say that's pretty minimal.
Obviously not too many people have kept up or watched the dev videos on youtube. The whole point to get people to upgrade is to get people into video cards that have programable GPU's, once they do that then most of the game can be run in the GPU rather than the CPU. GPUs are on the order of 30-100x faster than the best CPU out today. Eye candy or not all those neat little options that everyone wants, from interactive mining, enviromental effects, real scanning, NPC AI, fleet formations, etc, is going to require something more than a six year old computer with a 128mb video card.
|
Polinus
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 17:30:00 -
[1079]
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 17/01/2009 13:26:56
Originally by: Sky Marshal
Originally by: Polinus
Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail.
If he selected his computer to play at Classic, then he didn't fail.
Considering Premium hadn't even been thought of at the time, and SM3 didn't even exist, I find it hard to see how I could have choosen differently.
It was, at the time, much more powerful than most desktop PC's.
The guy is a troll, ignore him.
I remember when Premium was being talked about being worried, and then reassured when CCP stated they would continue to support Classic.
Now they have a tight deadline, and need to drop something to meet it.
If you bought your PC BEFORE premium was announced then i retract what I wrote. But that means your system is very old and needs an upgrade anyway. SM3 was released almost 5 years ago. Granted not on notebooks, so you can say around 3.5-4 years old notebook. It is old and at the SM3 change will be VERY old.
A game developer must keep a game usable for not HIGH end machines, but cannot have the luxury to get stuck with VERY old systems. Its evolution fault (maybe you should talk to a certain corp in your alliance about this:P)
|
Polinus
Caldari
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2009.01.17 17:33:00 -
[1080]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Polinus
Well then you were not very smart on your choosing. If you had choosen a laptop to play eve you would have choosen one with SM3 already because of premium. You were not smart and now trying to blame others for it.
man your so stupid it hurts
Nope its the simple truth. If you choose a computer specifically to play a game you then select a computer that can play that game well. If you don't do it its YOUR fail.
I bought a machine to play even when premium was announced and specified as SM3. I wanted to play eve so I selected a SM3 capable machine. And as I already posted earlier I really doubt many eve players earn much less money than I do (or pay 80% import taxes as I do) so the "it was too expensive"card doe snot FIT!
if you had botherd to actually read his posts before you started posting crap you would have noticed that he bought the pc before there ever was any premium graphics in eve
imagine that, some of us actually played this game quite a few years before they updated the graphics
So its time to change sorry but its reality then your machine IS too old to be a gamer. Face it. Some of us use our time to work hard save some money so we can have a GOOD pc to play games with GOOD graphics quality that we should expect from a high level company like CCP. I agree that the official warnign came TOO close to the date, but its far from unreasonable as the proposition itself goes, it should just have been warned like 3-4 months ago.
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 39 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |