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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Alice Saki
4484
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Posted - 2012.09.04 14:25:00 -
[3301] - Quote
Best mining Ship?
Ferox :D Scottish Interweb Spaceshippy Person, Very Easily Confused. I like to show my Love by Smashing people in the face with a big Hammer.
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Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
48
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Posted - 2012.09.04 14:28:00 -
[3302] - Quote
I'll be honest, when I first so this had 160 pages I was actually hope for a massive story chain that started off with "One day, in the land of New Eden, Minnie the Mining Barge was mining her way happily along, when suddenly...." and then there was 160 pages of people carrying it on post by post into an epic tale.
Instead it some gankers complaining about mining barge buffs and miners being equally as whiny about.... well pretty much everything, including unironically being offended by the fact someone is whining about the fact they can't play the game how they selfishly want to anymore (which is also ironic as thats what most miners do all the time).
1/10, will not read again. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2028
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 14:35:00 -
[3303] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums.
While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own. |
stoicfaux
1539
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 14:45:00 -
[3304] - Quote
I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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baltec1
Bat Country
2028
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Posted - 2012.09.04 14:59:00 -
[3305] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?
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Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
13
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Posted - 2012.09.04 15:12:00 -
[3306] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face.
Apart from being ridiculed in these forums? |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1275
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 15:19:00 -
[3307] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Because if they are not suicide gankable, that means they are invincible/untargettable/protected by magic. And this woudl be very very bad for the game.
You should have phased your question as, why should they be reasonably suicide-gankable.
The answer is three fold.
1) because they are not combat ships and should not be used as such. They should however be able to be protected by a bodyguard... too bad not many folks want to sit and watch people mine just in case they are attacked.
2) because it is one of the only risks they face, other than missing a cycle and wasting a few minutes.
3) because one of the trailers from way back showed this (willfully ignores all the other trailers that depict things that do not happen in EVE). |
Pookie McPook
The Whiskers of Kurvi-Tasch
13
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Posted - 2012.09.04 15:24:00 -
[3308] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Why is it that suicide gankers are targetting any form of mining barge anyway? Apart from any Hulkageddon payout what are they hoping to get out of it? A transport or two of ore? Ooh, a couple of mining drones? If they're just trying to boost their KVD figures most people would look at the kill board and ridicule them for taking advantage of the lowest form of pvp outside baiting noobs.
Storm in a tea cup. Move on. |
stoicfaux
1539
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 15:42:00 -
[3309] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?
CCP deals with bots. You can report bots to CCP, so there's no need for you to shoot them.
As for the "everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked", other ships (e.g. freighters and loot pinata mission running ships) are normally ganked based on the value of their cargo or modules. Isn't ganking miners more about tears (i.e. griefing) than profit? It's not like you're going to make a mint selling their ore and/or T2 equipment. (OTOH, a miner equipped with deadspace boosters, faction hardeners, ORE lasers, and/or harvester drones would be fair game.)
I'm not seeing the problem. You can still suicide gank a miner but you just need to bring more friends. All that's happened is that suicide-ganking has gone from being a "simple," relatively inexpensive affair (a cheap destroyer or two) and has now become a serious game requiring numbers, planning, and a willingness to take a significant isk loss. So now you're probably ganking because of a personal vendetta, a mercenary contract, a chance at phat lewt, etc., and not as a way to pass the time.
tl;dr - High-sec suicide ganking isn't for casuals anymore.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:20:00 -
[3310] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?
Haven't seen many T2 fit Marauders ganked recently. Have you seen any? |
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Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1623
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:47:00 -
[3311] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums. While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own.
Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1275
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:54:00 -
[3312] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums. While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own. Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened. For a few weeks, there were at least 20 threads between S&M and GD, probably more in F&I and AH.
All were the same annoying whining, which unfortunately overwhelmed the small bits of legitimacy they did have.
Fortunately, CCP was able to see the small bits (Hulk and Mack being the only ones worth flying) and attempted to fix it. Good attempt, needs some work (as usual, nothing is perfect).
Then, miners whined about a combination of lack of room for crystals, and the fact that their Cargo Rigged Hulk was no longer king. |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
181
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Posted - 2012.09.04 16:55:00 -
[3313] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face.
Terminal boredom
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
baltec1
Bat Country
2031
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 16:59:00 -
[3314] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt? CCP deals with bots. You can report bots to CCP, so there's no need for you to shoot them. As for the "everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked", other ships (e.g. freighters and loot pinata mission running ships) are normally ganked based on the value of their cargo or modules. Isn't ganking miners more about tears (i.e. griefing) than profit? It's not like you're going to make a mint selling their ore and/or T2 equipment. (OTOH, a miner equipped with deadspace boosters, faction hardeners, ORE lasers, and/or harvester drones would be fair game.) I'm not seeing the problem. You can still suicide gank a miner but you just need to bring more friends. All that's happened is that suicide-ganking has gone from being a "simple," relatively inexpensive affair (a cheap destroyer or two) and has now become a serious game requiring numbers, planning, and a willingness to take a significant isk loss. So now you're probably ganking because of a personal vendetta, a mercenary contract, a chance at phat lewt, etc., and not as a way to pass the time. tl;dr - High-sec suicide ganking isn't for casuals anymore.
CCP bans bots but untill then we kill them to cripple their cash flow. You should have seen the rage on the bot forums about us.
Now, the problem is macks are doing the skiffs job which goes against the whole point of the barge update. The simple fact of life here is the only risk these people will ever face in highsec is people like us but we are hardly going to go around killing macks at a loss. Macks being just about risk free is bad for this game in many ways and will end up hurting miners the most in the long run. Ganking has always been about proft, the tears are simply a bonus and a rather rare one at that and if you think that macks having a bigger tank somehow means we now face a bigger challange you are sadly mistaken. They are just as easy to kill, its simply a question of extra firepower.
Reducing the base tank on the mack to the same level of the hulk would mean you can still tank it to survive but the skiff would provide the better option. The hulk would also be in a better position as people who want max yeild would pick that and not be tempted to get a mack because of the better tank. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1630
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:02:00 -
[3315] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums. While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own. Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened. For a few weeks, there were at least 20 threads between S&M and GD, probably more in F&I and AH. All were the same annoying whining, which unfortunately overwhelmed the small bits of legitimacy they did have. Fortunately, CCP was able to see the small bits (Hulk and Mack being the only ones worth flying) and attempted to fix it. Good attempt, needs some work (as usual, nothing is perfect). Then, miners whined about a combination of lack of room for crystals, and the fact that their Cargo Rigged Hulk was no longer king.
The few forum complainers don't speak for the entire playerbase of miners. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1630
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:03:00 -
[3316] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:baltec1 wrote:[quote=stoicfaux]I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt? CCP deals with bots. You can report bots to CCP, so there's no need for you to shoot them.
Botting should be less and less of an issue though, if I recall correctly CCP are now doing hardware bans...which is quite a good way to go about it. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2031
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:03:00 -
[3317] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums. While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own. Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened.
From the start of this year we had 8 months of constant miner rage over how they were helpless. It started right after the gallente ice interdiction hit the roof in the BAT Country caldari ice interdiction.
For 8 months I posted fits and tactics for miners to use that would save them. They didnt listen, they still are not listening. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1276
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:08:00 -
[3318] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote: So instead of doing it in a calm, positive way...the lot of you ***** and moan on the forums constantly only making yourself look like cry babies who are angry because they didn't get their way. I have no problem with people suicide ganking miners, you don't tank you deserve to lose your ship... but this is not the way to go about it. Not all of us want unbalanced gameplay.
As opposed to the months of miners BAWing in the forums. While there might be some bad posters its doesn't change the fact that the mack is doing another ships job as well as its own. Where? I see the occasional complaint about mining but nowhere have I ever seen the ungodly amount of complaining from miners that you guys keep saying happened. For a few weeks, there were at least 20 threads between S&M and GD, probably more in F&I and AH. All were the same annoying whining, which unfortunately overwhelmed the small bits of legitimacy they did have. Fortunately, CCP was able to see the small bits (Hulk and Mack being the only ones worth flying) and attempted to fix it. Good attempt, needs some work (as usual, nothing is perfect). Then, miners whined about a combination of lack of room for crystals, and the fact that their Cargo Rigged Hulk was no longer king. The few forum complainers don't speak for the entire playerbase of miners. Of course not.
Just like Ank did not speak for the entirety of high sec. She still made us all look like morons.
Perception is key.
Also, the complaints were not just on the forums. Help channel was filled with whining. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1633
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:09:00 -
[3319] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote: Of course not.
Just like Ank did not speak for the entirety of high sec. She still made us all look like morons.
Perception is key.
Also, the complaints were not just on the forums. Help channel was filled with whining.
Help channel is always full of that.
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betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
42
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:09:00 -
[3320] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:stoicfaux wrote:I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?
Name the other risks high sec miners face. Its also important because its the only way we have to deal with bots who damage the game for other miners. Everyone else also faces the risk of being ganked if they do something silly like fit no tank so why should miners be exempt?
They are still gankable, and they would still be gankable if you doubled their tanks again. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
2032
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:13:00 -
[3321] - Quote
betoli wrote:
They are still gankable, and they would still be gankable if you doubled their tanks again.
Ganking them isnt the problem, its just as simple, the problem is its not profitable to do so. Not being profitable to gank is the best tank of them all. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:19:00 -
[3322] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:The hulk would also be in a better position as people who want max yeild would pick that and not be tempted to get a mack because of the better tank.
Hulk/Covetor isn't for solo mining anymore... |
betoli
Ketogenic Killzone
42
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Posted - 2012.09.04 17:21:00 -
[3323] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:betoli wrote:
They are still gankable, and they would still be gankable if you doubled their tanks again.
Ganking them isnt the problem, its just as simple, the problem is its not profitable to do so. Not being profitable to gank is the best tank of them all.
You said you were doing it for the good of humanity, to cripple the botting, and help educate the miners.... worth spending a few isk on if you ask me. Until your earlier post I was assuming it was all for the lulz!
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baltec1
Bat Country
2032
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:30:00 -
[3324] - Quote
betoli wrote:baltec1 wrote:betoli wrote:
They are still gankable, and they would still be gankable if you doubled their tanks again.
Ganking them isnt the problem, its just as simple, the problem is its not profitable to do so. Not being profitable to gank is the best tank of them all. You said you were doing it for the good of humanity, to cripple the botting, and help educate the miners.... worth spending a few isk on if you ask me. Until your earlier post I was assuming it was all for the lulz!
Not even our bank account is endless. The reason we could keep doing the interdiction for a month is because we were making money on it. As we went on the price of the ships we were using started to go up because our demand out stripped supply. These higher costs were met by the profits we made on the ganking.
In the end, we came out even discounting the isk we made on the market panic. A war on high sec miners is not cheap. Right now we are working out ways to kill macks as cheaply as possible but even so we are not breaking even. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2032
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:30:00 -
[3325] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:baltec1 wrote:The hulk would also be in a better position as people who want max yeild would pick that and not be tempted to get a mack because of the better tank. Hulk/Covetor isn't for solo mining anymore...
People dont just use them for solo mining. Hulks dont mine enough to justify losing the cargo hold and the tank of a mack which is why the bots are all going for Macks. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:48:00 -
[3326] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Not even our bank account is endless. The reason we could keep doing the interdiction for a month is because we were making money on it. As we went on the price of the ships we were using started to go up because our demand out stripped supply. These higher costs were met by the profits we made on the ganking.
In the end, we came out even discounting the isk we made on the market panic. A war on high sec miners is not cheap. Right now we are working out ways to kill macks as cheaply as possible but even so we are not breaking even.
Bigger bounty maybe...
baltec1 wrote:People dont just use them for solo mining. Hulks dont mine enough to justify losing the cargo hold and the tank of a mack which is why the bots are all going for Macks.
Are you saying miner in a Mack mining solo in hisec mines more than one Hulk in fleet boosted by Rorqual in nullsec?
Even with three MLUs it's not even close. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2032
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:52:00 -
[3327] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Bigger bounty maybe...
There is no bounty. The funds don't magically appear from thin air, it must be a break even at least for it to work.
Quote:
Are you saying miner in a Mack mining solo in hisec mines more than one Hulk in fleet boosted by Rorqual in nullsec?
Even with three MLUs it's not even close.
Bolded the none relevant part. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
166
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 17:57:00 -
[3328] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bolded the none relevant part.
"The Covetor and Hulk cater to group mining operations due to their large mining capability, low EHP and storage, forcing them to rely on others to haul and resupply them with mining crystals." http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73098 |
baltec1
Bat Country
2032
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 18:01:00 -
[3329] - Quote
Do you really need me to bullet point everything that was wrong with what you said?
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stoicfaux
1540
|
Posted - 2012.09.04 18:19:00 -
[3330] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: CCP bans bots but untill then we kill them to cripple their cash flow. You should have seen the rage on the bot forums about us.
Interesting point, but that's no consolation to legitimate miners.
Quote:Now, the problem is macks are doing the skiffs job which goes against the whole point of the barge update. The simple fact of life here is the only risk these people will ever face in highsec is people like us but we are hardly going to go around killing macks at a loss. So... Macks are only over-tanked in a high-sec context. Maybe the Skiff's tank is more for null/low-sec? (Or would be, if null/low had delayed local or belts had tougher NPCs or if Ring Mining(tm) requires a tanky Skiff.)
Quote:Macks being just about risk free is bad for this game in many ways and will end up hurting miners the most in the long run. Ganking has always been about proft, the tears are simply a bonus and a rather rare one at that and if you think that macks having a bigger tank somehow means we now face a bigger challange you are sadly mistaken. They are just as easy to kill, its simply a question of extra firepower.
So what you're saying is: High sec exhumer suicide-gankers need CCP's help ensure that gankers can fly inexpensive ships with low-skill pilots (and low-skill players since macks are "easy to kill") to make a profit blowing up player ships that cost 200+ million isk, all in high security space.
Welfare/Socialism for gankers? Seriously?
We should make oil tankers easier to blow up so Somali pirates can destroy the ships with AK47s and RPGs so that they can sell a few scraps of salvage afterwards and buy more AK47s and RPGs!
Err... I mean, that's an interesting dynamic/paradigm. Have you considered applying for a business patent?
Quote:Reducing the base tank on the mack to the same level of the hulk would mean you can still tank it to survive but the skiff would provide the better option. The hulk would also be in a better position as people who want max yeild would pick that and not be tempted to get a mack because of the better tank. People get a Mack because of the large ore bay.
Anyway, it's apparent that CCP has sided with the miners on this one. Or at least miners bring in more revenue for CCP than high-sec suicide gankers do.
tl;dr - No longer being able to make a career of suicide ganking mining ships in high-sec is a problem that doesn't need fixing.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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