[quote=baltec1]

Interesting point, but that's no consolation to legitimate miners.

So... Macks are only over-tanked in a high-sec context. Maybe the Skiff's tank is more for null/low-sec? (Or would be, if null/low had delayed local or belts had tougher NPCs or if Ring Mining(tm) requires a tanky Skiff.)

So what you're saying is: High sec exhumer suicide-gankers need CCP's help ensure that gankers can fly inexpensive ships with low-skill pilots (and low-skill players since macks are "easy to kill") to make a profit blowing up player ships that cost 200+ million isk, all in high security space.

Welfare/Socialism for gankers? Seriously?

We should make oil tankers easier to blow up so Somali pirates can destroy the ships with AK47s and RPGs so that they can sell a few scraps of salvage afterwards and buy more AK47s and RPGs!

Err... I mean, that's an interesting dynamic/paradigm. Have you considered applying for a business patent?

People get a Mack because of the large ore bay.

Anyway, it's apparent that CCP has sided with the miners on this one. Or at least miners bring in more revenue for CCP than high-sec suicide gankers do.

Higher mineral prices are something a miner would be very interested in.

Naturally miners do not want to lose their one size fits all ship.

I'll bite, why is it important for mining ships to be suicide-gankable in high sec?

You can still tank a hulk to be gank proof from a cost effectiveness perspective as you always could no? So miners buying macks of hulks on account of the tank buff is speculation.

I would say many miners are solo, and they've made the obvious choice for the solo barge.... you havn't presented much evidence that its because of the tank.

BTW - are you allowed to bot on SiSi, I'm rather curious as to whether were allowed to test how good ccp is at detection... out of curiosity you understand.

Because if they are not suicide gankable, that means they are invincible/untargettable/protected by magic. And this woudl be very very bad for the game.



You should have phased your question as, why should they be reasonably suicide-gankable.

The answer is three fold.

1) because they are not combat ships and should not be used as such. They should however be able to be protected by a bodyguard... too bad not many folks want to sit and watch people mine just in case they are attacked.

2) because it is one of the only risks they face, other than missing a cycle and wasting a few minutes.

3) because one of the trailers from way back showed this (willfully ignores all the other trailers that depict things that do not happen in EVE).

Now you're just being silly. They are still suicide gankable. They don't have an infinite amount of HP you just have to bring friends and spend more. You will still lose your ship to concord. You say bring friends, but friends can't do anything against alpha. Now the gankers have to bring friends.

No, we just bring a cruiser instead of a destroyer. What stops us from doing so is that you cannot make a profit.

Gank freighters

Okay then move onto another way of making ISK then and stop whining about it. Gank freighters, gank blingy Tengus at Dodixie. No one really cares about how you make your iskies.

The point isn't whether or not it is profitable. I think plenty of gankers are willing to gank at a moderate loss. Breakeven point was killing 2 Mackinaws per Tornado. Anything over 3 was profit, 5-6 per Tornado was fantastic profit, but those days are long gone.

When CCP sets the game conditions to the point where gankers are spending 200M ISK to kill a a 280M ISK Exhumer that drops maybe 20M in loot/salvage, people just stop ganking.

If you force people to exclusively run in 5 man gangs just to kill Exhumers, people stop doing it.

And when ganking stops - only realistic threat to highsec miners in EVE disappears completely.

And I'm sure there are a lot of farmers out there who are good with that.
But these people - the Mack could have been given the best yield, the best cargo AND the best EHP, and they'd STILL defend it.

The Mackinaw clearly is unbalanced. Hell, even miners (the slowest of the slow learners) have picked on that surprisingly quickly and voted with their ISK.

Really at this point all I'm reading is crying.

I'm perfectly OK with an unbalanced Mackinaw because I'm an idiot who got ganked once and am still mad.

Then you are truly clueless.

I think that about sums it up.

That's me I'm mad you can just hear in my post.

I'm not clueless I just recognize crying when I read it. Y'all think you're entitled to easy profitable targets and now you have to work harder and your profits are marginalised. Things change. Go buy the board game. The rules and stats will never change.

War dec mining corps, bump em if they are in NPC Corps like James does of you want to mess with bots. Or just change careers.

The mack is still doing the skiffs job which is the main argument here. The whole point of the skiff is to stop gankers but whats the point of the skiff if the mack does that job too as well as having the best hold and a yeild not too far from a hulk?

Why it's only Mack? Max tanked Hulk has 38k EHP. That's only 6,4k EHP less than lol-triple-tanked Mack.

Its the base tank we are talking about.

Skiff: 32,6k
Mack: 14,5k
Hulk: 11,1k

Mack is still closer to Hulk than Skiff.

Hulk has ~24% less EHP than Mack.
Mack has ~56% less EHP than Skiff.

And that 24% makes all the difference.

Ship with best yield has best tank...
"Risk vs. reward"?

This ladies and gentlemen is what happens when a scrub takes an EVE meme and spams it all over the place without understanding it.

No you don't recognize crying when you see it, as you just demonstrated when you responed to Buck's post without reading it.

We also dont have to work harder to kill miners and wardecs are still as broken as ever and useless for targeting miners.

The mack is still doing the skiffs job which is the main argument here. The whole point of the skiff is to stop gankers but whats the point of the skiff if the mack does that job too as well as having the best hold and a yeild not too far from a hulk?

If we just wanted easy kills why in the name of Odin would we want a ship like the skiff at all?

If we were all flying Skiffs, you'd just complain about getting that one nerfed though. You wont be happy with anything us miners do.

No, we would chuckle and probably mention something about risk averse carebears.


The Skiff is (IMO) fine as is with relation to the Hulk.

However, because the Mack can get a great yield and still tank enough to dissuade a price based gank, there is no reason (other than paranoia and PvP) to fly a Skiff.

I dont understand why you guys can't wrap your heads around

Hulk - Best Yield, Lowest EHP, Lowest ORE hold
Mackinaw - Medium Yield, Medium EHP, Largest Ore hold
Skiff - Lowest Yield, Largest EHP, Medium ORE Hold
all I see here is a nice balance between ships.