| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 119 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1297
   |
Posted - 2012.09.05 04:41:00 -
[3361] - Quote
Buck Futz wrote:EDIT: Besides, what do you have your panties in such a twist for? Even if the Mackinaw was properly rebalanced to have the worst EHP of the 3 Exhumers, you could still tank it and be perfectly OK. You might need to pack a DC II instead of three MLU IIs, but you'd be just fine. Why do you care if other miners who are too dim to tank, are getting popped? It doesn't really affect you at all... 
Just ask for the mack to get some more EHP buffs. I mean, it worked the last time.
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
168
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 06:55:00 -
[3362] - Quote
Buck Futz wrote:Hulk should have the best yield, worst cargo and in the middle on EHP.
Mack should have the best cargo, middle yield and worst EHP.
Skiff should have the best EHP, middle cargo and worst yield.
So you want old system back. Welcome back Retriever and Hulk. And goodbye everything else.
Hulk actually has best cargo:
Since Hulk is now fleet ship you have to remember that Mack can't beat Orca in cargo capacity. You also have haulers in fleets: please tell me a cheap ship that can beat Itty5 in cargo capacity. No need to hurry, take your time. |
Buck Futz
Suddenly Violence
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 15:29:00 -
[3363] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Buck Futz wrote:Hulk should have the best yield, worst cargo and in the middle on EHP.
Mack should have the best cargo, middle yield and worst EHP.
Skiff should have the best EHP, middle cargo and worst yield. So you want old system back. Welcome back Retriever and Hulk. And goodbye everything else. Hulk actually has best cargo: Since Hulk is now fleet ship you have to remember that Mack can't beat Orca in cargo capacity. You also have haulers in fleets: please tell me a cheap ship that can beat Itty5 in cargo capacity. No need to hurry, take your time.
No. Pay attention.
Old system was Hulk 1-1-1, Mackinaw, 2-2-2 (except ice yield), and Skiff 3-3-3 (except Merx yield)
I'm proposing 1-2-3 for each ship. Its really simple to understand if you try.
If the Mackinaw is properly balanced by reducing the base EHP, do you seriously think an occasional gank will stop miners from using the Mackinaw?
"Hulk has the best cargo, because it has an Orca."
Right now we see Mackinaws mining in fleets, even through that is what the Hulk is for. Simply for the convenience factor of not having to move ore every 90 seconds. Even in fleets, miners like to AFK it.
Mining with a Hulk and a hauler is just not worth it when you can simply use two Mackinaws instead.
I know you are trying to protect your overbuffed Mackinaw (if I mined, I would too.)
But as sad as I was when my Vagabond got nerfed, I have to admit the game is better since ships were slowed down.
All Mackinaw, all the time, is clear evidence of a problem given the stated goals of 'Tiericide'. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
3940
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 15:31:00 -
[3364] - Quote
What you and other here are proposing is not 1-2-3, it's 1-3-3 for every ship... just saying.
It already IS 1-2-3.
Ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire! |
Buck Futz
Suddenly Violence
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
74
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 15:57:00 -
[3365] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:What you and other here are proposing is not 1-2-3, it's 1-3-3 for every ship... just saying.
It already IS 1-2-3.
If so, I don't think you will have trouble pointing out which category the Mackinaw is #3 in.
Cargo? Tank? or Yield? |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1706
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 16:10:00 -
[3366] - Quote
Buck Futz wrote:Shalua Rui wrote:What you and other here are proposing is not 1-2-3, it's 1-3-3 for every ship... just saying.
It already IS 1-2-3. If so, I don't think you will have trouble pointing out which category the Mackinaw is #3 in. Cargo? Tank? or Yield?
Ok, so slightly lower the yield but leave everything else alone. That will solve your precious "IT'S UNBALANCED!" issue without needlessly nerfing its ehp. |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
3941
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 16:14:00 -
[3367] - Quote
Pure mathematics? Yield...
Skiff +200% strip miner yield on one module
Mack +50% strip miner yield on two modules
Ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire! |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 16:56:00 -
[3368] - Quote
Buck Futz wrote:No. Pay attention.
You forgot one little thing you gankers keep repeating: "risk vs. reward"
Why should Mack get highest risk factor if it doesn't get highest yield (reward)? |
baltec1
Bat Country
2037
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:10:00 -
[3369] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Buck Futz wrote:No. Pay attention. You forgot one little thing you gankers keep repeating: "risk vs. reward" Why should Mack get highest risk factor if it doesn't get highest yield (reward)?
It wouldnt get the highest risk factor. It would be on the same level as the hulk.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
2037
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:18:00 -
[3370] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Ok, so slightly lower the yield but leave everything else alone. That will solve your precious "IT'S UNBALANCED!" issue without needlessly nerfing its ehp.
Only..the yield isn't that great unless you have mining bonuses and multiple mining laser upgrades. So to get better yield we have to sacrifice tank like it's supposed to be. So why are you still complaining?
Why are you so terrorfied of gankers being able to make a profit on the stupid? |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1715
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:21:00 -
[3371] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Ok, so slightly lower the yield but leave everything else alone. That will solve your precious "IT'S UNBALANCED!" issue without needlessly nerfing its ehp.
Only..the yield isn't that great unless you have mining bonuses and multiple mining laser upgrades. So to get better yield we have to sacrifice tank like it's supposed to be. So why are you still complaining?
Why are you so terrorfied of gankers being able to make a profit on the stupid?
Im not, untanked exhumers should be easy to gank...AND THEY ARE. There is nothing that needs fixing/nerfing/changing with the Mackinaw. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2037
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:25:00 -
[3372] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Im not, untanked exhumers should be easy to gank...AND THEY ARE. There is nothing that needs fixing/nerfing/changing with the Mackinaw.
Apart from the ehp that makes the skiff redundent. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1715
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:25:00 -
[3373] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Im not, untanked exhumers should be easy to gank...AND THEY ARE. There is nothing that needs fixing/nerfing/changing with the Mackinaw.
Apart from the ehp that makes the skiff redundent.
Skiff can double the ehp of the mackinaw...and has a decent yield and good sized ore hold. There is plenty of reason to use Skiffs. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2037
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:29:00 -
[3374] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Skiff can double the ehp of the mackinaw...and has a decent yield and good sized ore hold. There is plenty of reason to use Skiffs.
The mack will tank enough to deture gankers but gets a bigger ore bay and mines more. There is no reason to use the skiff. |
Yokai Mitsuhide
Exiled Mining
1715
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:33:00 -
[3375] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Skiff can double the ehp of the mackinaw...and has a decent yield and good sized ore hold. There is plenty of reason to use Skiffs.
The mack will tank enough to deture gankers but gets a bigger ore bay and mines more. There is no reason to use the skiff.
Safer in a Skiff, much less likely to be the target of a suicide gank while only giving up a tiny bit of yield/ore space.
I've seen lot's of Skiffs since the patch.
Mackinaw tanks enough to avoid a few destroyers looking for an easy gank if he is tanked, Mackinaw can still be brought down easily if he has no tank. So the stupid miners will still be easy targets. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:37:00 -
[3376] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It wouldnt get the highest risk factor. It would be on the same level as the hulk.
Lowest EHP does mean highest risk factor.
After all you wanted that 1-2-3 thing. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2037
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 17:40:00 -
[3377] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Safer in a Skiff, much less likely to be the target of a suicide gank while only giving up a tiny bit of yield/ore space.
I've seen lot's of Skiffs since the patch.
Mackinaw tanks enough to avoid a few destroyers looking for an easy gank if he is tanked, Mackinaw can still be brought down easily if he has no tank. So the stupid miners will still be easy targets.
It doesnt matter how much safer the skiff is, the mach reaches the point thatits not profitable to gank and that means just about every single ganker will not go for it. 99% of ganking is done for profit, something miners such as yourself seemingly cannot understand. It doesn't matter how much more the skiff will tank, once you hit the magic marker where you cost more to gank then you are worth you become safe from ganks.
The skiff will remain pointless so long as the mack tanks as well as it does now which goes against the entire point of the barge update. |
Trindara Eayil
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 18:06:00 -
[3378] - Quote
The new mackinaw is too powerful from an afk perspective, especially for ice mining.
I don't necessarily agree that requires a reduction in tank (with its obvious attractions to the ganking community), a reduction in yield would be effective.
For instance, changing the ice harvester accelerator rig so it could only be fit to hulks... |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
1278
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 18:42:00 -
[3379] - Quote
Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:baltec1 wrote:Yokai Mitsuhide wrote:
Skiff can double the ehp of the mackinaw...and has a decent yield and good sized ore hold. There is plenty of reason to use Skiffs.
The mack will tank enough to deture gankers but gets a bigger ore bay and mines more. There is no reason to use the skiff. Safer in a Skiff, much less likely to be the target of a suicide gank while only giving up a tiny bit of yield/ore space. I've seen lot's of Skiffs since the patch. Mackinaw tanks enough to avoid a few destroyers looking for an easy gank if he is tanked, Mackinaw can still be brought down easily if he has no tank. So the stupid miners will still be easy targets.
Right now the Mack can be tanked with 2MLUs to be nearly impossible to break even with a suicide (I think a few thousand newb ships can do it cheap enough).
So, unless the ganker is just doing it for the sake of ganking, a Mack is as safe as a Skiff, but gets better yield and cargo.
If the ganker is doing it for fun, the Skiff is no safer than any other ship. The only thing that might make the Skiff any safer is that it cost less and so may not generate the tears the ganker is looking for. Other than that, it is just as likely to be ganked for fun as a Mack.
Now, the Skiff may survive that for fun gank better, but that only tends to lead to more of them showing up. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
1278
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:09:00 -
[3380] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Right now the Mack can be tanked with 2MLUs to be nearly impossible to break even with a suicide (I think a few thousand newb ships can do it cheap enough).
So, unless the ganker is just doing it for the sake of ganking, a Mack is as safe as a Skiff, but gets better yield and cargo.
If the ganker is doing it for fun, the Skiff is no safer than any other ship. The only thing that might make the Skiff any safer is that it cost less and so may not generate the tears the ganker is looking for. Other than that, it is just as likely to be ganked for fun as a Mack.
Now, the Skiff may survive that for fun gank better, but that only tends to lead to more of them showing up. - Risk vs. reward - 1-2-3 Mack gets worst tank. Ok, that means it should have best yield. Now we get to important part. What it needs so that 1-2-3 would happen? Yes, ore bay from Skiff. Do you know where that would lead to? It's bloody obvious: one ship to rule them all.
I personally think it should have the same tank and tankability (approximately) as a Hulk.
Hulk purely for yield with a cargo forcing it to be fleet based (like it is now).
Mack for cargo with decent yield for more solo players (like it is now minus a little tank).
Skiff for those who didn't bother tanking their ships before and want to be "safe". |
baltec1
Bat Country
2041
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:11:00 -
[3381] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:
I personally think it should have the same tank and tankability (approximately) as a Hulk.
I agree. |
Mukuro Gravedigger
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
24
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:15:00 -
[3382] - Quote
If this has been brought up and discussed, then I apologize.
Since CCP granted the Covetor and Hulk with the best yield but poor space due to being fleet ships, why not grant a bonus to the Orca's and Rorqual's ore hold based upon the Industrial Command Ships and Capital Industrial Ships skills respectively?
Of course, I will mention that I do fly an Orca so I am a tad biased.  |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
1278
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:20:00 -
[3383] - Quote
Mukuro Gravedigger wrote:If this has been brought up and discussed, then I apologize. Since CCP granted the Covetor and Hulk with the best yield but poor space due to being fleet ships, why not grant a bonus to the Orca's and Rorqual's ore hold based upon the Industrial Command Ships and Capital Industrial Ships skills respectively? Of course, I will mention that I do fly an Orca so I am a tad biased.
No one has touched that, since we have been going in circles about the mining ships themselves.
I don't actually have an opinion either way on that, since my corp uses new folks for dedicated hauling when we do large mining ops. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:21:00 -
[3384] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:I personally think it should have the same tank and tankability (approximately) as a Hulk.
1-2-3?
You want everyone to fly one ship and one ship only. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
1278
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:29:00 -
[3385] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:I personally think it should have the same tank and tankability (approximately) as a Hulk. 1-2-3? You want everyone to fly one ship and one ship only.
Can you read?
Hulk: flown by large ops (as it is now in small numbers; the Mack is still favored due to its larger tank).
Mack: flown for solo or small groups (unlike now, where it is used for both small and large groups because of its better tank over tthe hulk).
Skiff: flown to avoid profit based ganks (close to now, except no reason to not use a Mack as it can avoid those same ganks).
All three woudl be flown, depending on what you are doing/how worried you are.
Right now, the only reason people fly Skiffs is because they think they are safer (but they aren't) than in a tanked Mack. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:51:00 -
[3386] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Hulk: flown by large ops (as it is now in small numbers; the Mack is still favored due to its larger tank).
Mack: flown for solo or small groups (unlike now, where it is used for both small and large groups because of its better tank over tthe hulk).
Skiff: flown to avoid profit based ganks (close to now, except no reason to not use a Mack as it can avoid those same ganks).
All three woudl be flown, depending on what you are doing/how worried you are.
Right now, the only reason people fly Skiffs is because they think they are safer (but they aren't) than in a tanked Mack.
Mack with worst tank would need support. Not for solo mining anymore. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2042
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:54:00 -
[3387] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Mack with worst tank would need support. Not for solo mining anymore.
No it would simply require you to fit something other than only MLU. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:55:00 -
[3388] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Mack with worst tank would need support. Not for solo mining anymore.
No it would simply require you to fit something other than only MLU.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1882439#post1882439 |
Valari Nala Zena
Perkone
Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 19:59:00 -
[3389] - Quote
TL;DR
I really can't fathom why people would chose tank over yield.
In all my years of mining, i would missed out on several billions of profit choosing tank over yield.
That is even calculating the amount of times i got suicide ganked successfully.
/TL;DR
I mine because it's profitable, and currently can afk a lot/do something else on my computer.
3 macks and an orca.
Because of the big hold, i can tolerate the mining (laptop + synergy).
Every 25 minutes i have to drag and drop cubes to the orca, every 50 minutes i have to offload a full orca.
The ore hold of the hulk is to small, and the yield of the mack is very close to the yield of a hulk, so my choice is made.
Ore hold > yield > tank = mackinaw.
In 5 years of mining, i've been suicide ganked 3 times, lost 1 mackinaw each time.
There has been a couple more attempts but only failed ones.
In the end, even with 3 lost macks, it was worth it because i'm mining at a faster rate for years.
These 3 lost macks mean nothing, compared to the billions i would have lost choosing tank instead of more yield. |
Pipa Porto
867
|
Posted - 2012.09.05 22:05:00 -
[3390] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Pure mathematics? Yield...
Skiff +200% strip miner yield on one module
Mack +50% strip miner yield on two modules
You don't quite know how math works, do you?
Skiff has 1 Module yielding (100%+200%=) 300% of the yield of 1 unbonused module.
Mackinaw has 2 Modules yielding (100%+50%+100%+50%=) 300% of the yield of 1 unbonused module.
(The Mackinaw also has a third low slot allowing it a DC2 or an extra MLUII)
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 119 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |