But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP. And until CCP fixes that, it's not worth subbing. Such a waste.

Yeah, take a break, learn the banjo, whateva.

Just don't biomass your SP like that other fool.

My handy random number generator predicts that there is a 1% chance that the ruthless EVE we knew and loved will return some day.

Just don't biomass your SP like that other fool.

It's disturbing that when we're talking about EVE pvp, we're counting the "places left" instead of the "places added."

Confirming this. I was one of the fools that biomassed but stumbled onto a kind GM to restore me a year later (had to change name slightly).

I think I know who the op is or who his character was from one encounter long ago. Rudely interrupted while killing a freighter in low sec from orvolle?

Sad to see real worthy players like yourself go. And lol at that guy lecturing the OP about eve

This is because of greyscales sentry idea isn't it?
Greyscale is good at making eve players unsub looking back at things
I recall a certain anomaly nerf he decided to do a while back... this personly made me unsub my alts so I only use a single char now

But whatever, leave. More for the rest of us.

That's not how it works when content-creating players leave the game.

So this is more about the fact that gate squatters can no longer do it with impunity, right? Cause the gate guns will be more lehtal, not less.

But whatever, leave. More for the rest of us.

No one player is that important. 'Content creating', whatever that means, or not.

EVE.....

Dying a slow, painful death.....


Good thing Planetside 2 is almost here YAY!!

Wrong. There are plenty of players who lead others, invent new tactics and strategies, maintain markets, create OOG tools and apps, et cetera, who are infinitely more valuable than whole busloads of the revolving-door carebear filth that spends half of its half-year subscription periods begging for the ability to mine rocks with impunity, and then leaves when it gets bored anyway.

...who are infinitely more valuable than whole busloads of the revolving-door carebear filth...

Posting in Goons ruined Eve thread.

Wrong. There are plenty of players who lead others, invent new tactics and strategies, maintain markets, create OOG tools and apps, et cetera, who are infinitely more valuable than whole busloads of the revolving-door carebear filth that spends half of its half-year subscription periods begging for the ability to mine rocks with impunity, and then leaves when it gets bored anyway.

Wrong. There are plenty of players who lead others, invent new tactics and strategies, maintain markets, create OOG tools and apps, et cetera, who are infinitely more valuable than whole busloads of the revolving-door carebear filth that spends half of its half-year subscription periods begging for the ability to mine rocks with impunity, and then leaves when it gets bored anyway.

You can quit but what are you going to play? There is no game around like EVE Online, and despite the things people dislike about it...it's still quite a fantastic game.

Quitting isn't going to change anything. Stick around so your voice can be heard. Although I don't quite think the issue is as big as you make it out to be. The only place I see PVP being an issue is in High Sec. But it should be an issue there...its HIGH SECURITY space.
CCP will eventually make low sec worth going to, that should bring more pvp. Maybe they will drop navy ships from high sec so FW can take place everywhere, that could increase more pvp fun. Not sure about null since I don't go there but I hear the lack of pvp out there is due to nobody willing to have wars.
You can quit but what are you going to play? There is no game around like EVE Online, and despite the things people dislike about it...it's still quite a fantastic game.

Hilarious. At least you still have NPC null I guess...

That's not how it works when content-creating players leave the game.

Or they could go about trying to make low sec more appealing by ... well adding measures that help reduce "pvp" (note that some people don't think ganking and gate camping are "actually pvp". Maybe some other form of combat will be added into the "not actual pvp" category which then expands incrementally to cover almost all ship-to-ship non-beneficial interactions.

Hilarious. At least you still have NPC null I guess...

Oh god, please don't give them ideas, please.

Damn...[/sadface]

For those not familiar, the OP is the author of one of the few threads in F&I that is NOT complete and utter puling carebear garbage.

I was just about to plug it in another discussion, but...yeah. (You really should go see that thread, and bump it, though, just on principle. And if you don't see why that is so, then you can **** off back to WoW.)

We need more players like this, not less, but once again, ::CCP:: seems to be crawling up the arse of the "we can Do Mainstream(TM), too!!111oneoneone!" delusion -- because that worked so outstandingly well the last time!

What is left for people like us, people who get the sandbox, and thrive within it, in whatever manner? Less and less, that I can see.

I think I'll go with what Desti said, though, and do similarly:

Give it time --I do love mah losec solo exploration-corner of the sandbox, too-- to see what goes.

(And if the High Command in Reyki were to tell...certain parties...that they have 45 minutes to clean out their desks before Security escorts them from the building, then that would not go amiss, either)

o7, Pilot.

Hopefully there'll be something you can come back to eventually, because I think/I hope/I pray that CCP will realise that this new centre they're trying to build, cannot possibly hold.

Why is this?

Because when you take away what makes the sandbox what it is, what gives the community the incentive to make it so, then you are left with --all that you are left with-- Is...

...

...

A not-that-great game whose age is really starting to show. And that's it.

I think that the data would show that in the long run, older players end up spending much more money over the lifetime of their playing the game than the hordes of new players.

learn to adapt, scrub. EVE pvp was FAR too easy for pirates as it was. With this change, gamers who pvp might not think EVE is such a skilles POS as they currently do when it comes to pvp.

Again, showing absolute ignorance with every post you make.

I appreciate your kind words. I really do. But the only thing that CCP understands is money, and the only thing I can do is vote with my cash and take it elsewhere. Frankly, I think it would be an interesting exercise to study how much money CCP makes per person, over the lifetime of that person playing the game, and see just how much money is spent by the older (in Eve play time) players with multiple accounts and long term accounts, vs. younger players that play for a few months and drop it.

I think that the data would show that in the long run, older players end up spending much more money over the lifetime of their playing the game than the hordes of new players.

Wouldn't want to make yourself look "skilles" on the EVEO General Discussion forums, would you?

CCP HAS to keep their eye on the prize and at the end of the day the prize is money. They don't keep Eve running off of love, money is the fuel that the servers burn to keep operating. The game must evolve and its denziens must adapt. New players will come and some of them will become long term players.

Right. Hence, I'm cancelling my subs.

Posting in Goons ruined Eve thread.

[...]
You can quit but what are you going to play? There is no game around like EVE Online, and despite the things people dislike about it...it's still quite a fantastic game.

That's the elephant in the room that CCP --and a lot of us, it would seem-- refuse to acknowledge:

Your statement --at least theoretically-- is not entirely true, anymore:

The Repopulation
Darkfall
Infinity: Quest for Earth (Why, oh why, can this incredible thing not get out of vapour-ware)
SW: Gemu


CCP may soon not be the only game in town.

Remember what happened to the Detroit car-makers in the mid-to-late 1970s? They refused to see that they weren't the only game in town after the late 1960s, and that their products, when faced with actual competition, just weren't all that great.

I don't want to see CCP go the way of GM, American Motors Corp., and the old --the real-- Chrysler Corporation. (CCP is the old-school Mopar musclecar --******* HEMI/4-SPEED 'CUDA, biotch!-- of the MMO world, but those too, are but a fond, increasingly rose-tinted memory.)

The reasons are the same --they refused to evolve, and when they finally saw that they had to, it was in all the wrong ways, and far too late.

Might CCP be heading towards its version of the 1978-80 oil embargo?

We've already had the one in 1973-75 (IE, Incarna), and it may be that they really haven't learned from that debacle, just like Detroit.

I don't want CCP to end up some rusty, fuel-swilling, can't-corner/stop/pass-a-petrol-pump-to-save-its-arse clunker in the back row of that auto-dealership in the wrong part of town that barely runs that they can't give away, because people have seen just how inferior a product it really is, in the face of actual, meritorious competition.

E:

******* forum still tries to eat posts >100 words that take more than 5 minutes to write. For ****'s sake, case in point!

From what you describe, Eve pvp has not changed at all, only your perception of it has, because, well frankly, you're not too bright.

There are tons of people having pvp fun in eve outside of fleet fights and outside being a worthless player who wants to keep playing like he has for 8 years,

Adapt or die.

Players wil either adapt or unsub and more ppl will try the game and like it.

It's always funny to see someone from the CFC, with their endless ship replacement programs, lecturing other folks on PvP.

And what happens if these changes make the established player base look elsewhere, but at the same time fail to bring in enough new players? You make it sound like massive changes to EVE ("evolution") will definitely increase the game's subscription count, but that is by no means guaranteed.

Word-of-mouth has been consistently proven to be a stronger long-term marketing strategy for MMOs than direct advertisement.

learn to adapt, scrub. EVE pvp was FAR too easy for pirates as it was. With this change, gamers who pvp might not think EVE is such a skilles POS as they currently do when it comes to pvp.

Your kind almost literally makes me ill, IRL. I play games to get away from your ilk, and here we have an industry increasingly catering to same. What, there aren't enough games suited to them? Go check out that pay-to-win mess Black Prophecy has apparently become, it's clearly more your speed, and it even has ::Spaceships (TM):: too.

Is that the future of MMOs?

Maybe we need some new class of game. There was a time before MMOs, and this will be known as the time before ???

I think turf burglar sees "skilles" as those exhibited by teenagers on a caffiene rush. There's a reason they call it twitch based gaming.

What CCP apparently wants to do is not evolution, it is revolution: They are trying to make a niche-product go mainstream, and can't seem to grasp why that attempt will almost certainly fail.

OP claims that CCP is dumbing the game down, but in every example he gives its the player base causing the lack of PVP.

In a nutshell, he is pissed that people don't want to PvP, and have found ways to avoid it. Riddle me this Batman; if there are more people in Eve now, how was it more dangerous then? The answer is I am asking the wrong question. You dont want it to be more dangerous for you, you want it to be more dangerous for noobs so you can assrape them.

You can get PvP within 5 minutes with the new war dec system if you want it. Every war is open unless the defender closes it. Zero excuses.

NPC corp? Coincidence? I think not.

GTFO and gimmie your stuff

Work for it, like we did.

But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP. And until CCP fixes that, it's not worth subbing. Such a waste.

Banned main for speaking my mind.

I notice you failed to comment on the actual content of my post, even though I gave you that respect.

Typical bitter vet.

OP, how about instead of whining like a little ***** you actually adapt?

I'm sick of you bitter vets all you do is cry about the "old days" and how Eve is only about pvp...

As a newish player (1year) I have to say I like how eve is now and the direction it is going in. I refuse to have you vocal cry-vets ruin the game for me.

So again

GTFO and gimmie your stuff

OP claims that CCP is dumbing the game down, but in every example he gives its the player base causing the lack of PVP.

In a nutshell, he is pissed that people don't want to PvP, and have found ways to avoid it. Riddle me this Batman; if there are more people in Eve now, how was it more dangerous then? The answer is I am asking the wrong question. You dont want it to be more dangerous for you, you want it to be more dangerous for noobs so you can assrape them.

You can get PvP within 5 minutes with the new war dec system if you want it. Every war is open unless the defender closes it. Zero excuses.

That's funny, I've been on EvE for a while now, and never PvP'ed once.

I think what you meant to say was:

"But that's not what Eve is about for me. Eve for me, is about PVP. And until CCP caters to what I want, it's not worth subbing. No one will miss me."

NPC corp...


FFS CCP. Ban NPC Corp characters from posting on the forums already. Get some accountability for once in this game. They're cluttering up my gorgeous thread.

THAT would be seriously hilarious. I would love to see intrepid crossing bawing on the forums about how goons busted up their gatecamps.

At the least it'll be a period of chipping away not a single massive structure-shooting fest like Incarna.

Sometimes you gotta go to the extremes slowly.

So, not once during those eight years did you go to nullsec?

That's as lethal, rewarding and risky as ever. Hell, have you not been in Wormhole space?

They're making security more, well, secure. And this is a problem? You know, giving players choices on how they want to run their game? Either going for safe but time consuming in high sec or risky and rewarding in null sec.

That's funny, I've been on EvE for a while now, and never PvP'ed once.

I think what you meant to say was:

"But that's not what Eve is about for me. Eve for me, is about PVP. And until CCP caters to what I want, it's not worth subbing. No one will miss me."

Where did you ever get the idea that I never once went to 0.0 in the entirety of my career?

I've lived in NPC space, flown with corps and alliances of all sizes. I've been in 0.0 since before there were Titans, and Carriers/Dreads even. Ahhh, RMR, the memories...

Anyway...

Wspace? The FIRST THING I DID on release day was take a fleet of 13 carebears so deep into Wspace that they got lost and then ransomed them for all their ships and pods or I wouldn't lead them back out. I made 7 billion ISK in ransoms in 40 minutes.

So, by all means, keep preaching to me about how to PVP.

That's funny, I've been on EvE for a while now, and never PvP'ed once.

I think what you meant to say was:

"But that's not what Eve is about for me. Eve for me, is about PVP. And until CCP caters to what I want, it's not worth subbing. No one will miss me."

I'm not preaching how to PVP, I'm wondering why the **** someone like you gives a damn about a direction that doesn't affect you.

OP

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=14248808

was this your 2nd account?

What direction are you speaking about, specifically? I'm not trying to be dense. I just don't understand what you're referring to exactly.

OMG the drama is killing me. You old players really have a feel for it. +1 for turning eve into stoneage player reality sitcom.
CCP is ruthless for not listening to you. Maybe they still got it after all?!

Biomass your char. Come back as a newb. Do Not join a corp. And guess what? You will be dead in under 2 seconds again...

Hope this helped,

<3

If I am understanding your plight correctly, you're asking for CCP to reverse their "path" that is leading them to a riskless EVE Online.

But these changes seem to exclusively effect high sec and one effecting low sec (Of which I'd argue is actually to redistribute PvP rather than reduce it.)

Meanwhile, in null sec, non-consentual PVP happens all the time. Or at least in my experience. So what's the problem?

Okay, thank you for clarifying, and I will indeed try to answer your question as best I can. But first, I need to explain the foundation of my thinking.

Currently, due to the basic architecture of the game (and I'm speaking to the literal architecture- how the systems are generated, the database structures on the servers etc.) gates are the chokepoints that force players together, and systems operate in a cellular structure that is mostly unavoidable unless you have a jump capable ship. Regardless, you still have to have a cyno. Anywhere you can cyno in/out, there is local. In w-space, cynos don't work. But, in w-space you don't have local broadcasting your presence either.

CCP has made it impossible to sneak around. Small groups can't avoid larger, everyone knows your coming, etc. etc. etc.

Every change CCP does, it makes this issue worse. They have reduced the window of contact by adding warp to zero, by installing jump bridges, by adding jump freighters, by basically allowing defenders to escape as easily as possible. More HP, less peak DPS, nerfing sensor boosters so that they lock slower. On and on and on. Less and less lethal.

There are a tremendous amount of changes in this game that have been done for the convenience of the player. They're simply making the environment 'easier', just for the sake of making the game 'easier'. Easier is not better. Having the majority of the students pass the test doesn't mean it's a good test. It means that the test is too easy. If everyone can pass it, then what is the point of competing?

People ask for 'easy' because they're lazy. They want everything handed to them. They think that it's only hard for them. They don't understand that it's hard for everyone and if they work at it they'll have an advantage.

So, most everyone that is reading my posts is focusing on the detail- what is right in front of them. But I'm talking about the big picture. The biggest picture there is- the core game design and its fundamental structure. It used to be hard, it used to be difficult. It used to be good. And now it's not.

I'm sorry but in reality why would anyone give a **** what your reasons for quitting are? Your reasoning is really only relevant to your perspective of what the game should be, and to assume that anyone else gives a rats arse about your feelings or perceptions is presumptive and arrogant. The changes have upset your game play, your hurt and upset, fine, you have said your piece, now pack up and go.

I kinda agree with the OP. My favourite times in EVE was when it was a risky confusing mess.

Strange but true.

Now I try on clothes for a living in my CQ.

6 pages of poor me. Man up or GTFO! Where else are you going to find a game even close to this?
Month tops and he will be back for his fix.

Aaannnd.... NPC corp.


WTF is wrong with you people (NPC Corp players)?

Where else are you going to find a game even close to this?

Thank you for this post. No really, thank you. I legitimately love what you wrote here.

Sometimes it feels like people just want to make it hard on other players for its own sake. But you gave me an adequate description as to WHY this is harming the game.

And reading this, I actually agree with you. Null and low sec needs to be seriously looked at. Because, although I do love null sec, it leaves a lot to be desired and it could be so much more.

CCP, this needs to be seriously looked at. I like high sec being carebear land. Sometimes I want to undock without the omnipotent feeling that everyone is out to get me. But at the same time, I also want nullsec to be vibrant, dangerous and rewarding. With a lot of chaos. And order within chaos. All people trying to make much more money playing smart than they would in high sec. And giving pirates and opportunity to profit from the risks they're taking.

Eh, don't bother pointing out the NPC-corpers. With some very rare exceptions, all of the "htfu ganker" people are going to post on alts. Fear is a defining characteristic of these people, and handily coincides with the stance they take toward the game.

Yeah, but CCP is no longer properly dismissing them as inconsequential, as they always should.

That is a problem.

Why does CCP think that they are not a problem?

While forum asshats are free to stereotype people, CCP has bills to pay.

I know that feel, bro. We'll keep doing the work and hopefully some day the conditions will be right for the good people to come back.

Let us know if you find something better.

CCP: Keep on the good work, for every bitter no-lifer leaving the game due to the game becoming more of a game and less of a job, youll get 2 or 3 or more new subs instead.

Lol. No one is stereotyping.

When something is true of a group, it's called a trait. Not a stereotype.

Yourself for example: you made a mistake, you got banned with your main, now you're using an NPC corp char to dodge the ban. You're evading accountability. It's a trait.

And I don't point it out because I have a problem with it. I point it out because I think it's funny.

NPC corp generally (not always) = douchebag

What can CCP do, when there's a generational shift toward spineless? CCP also play a PvP game, they on one side with their 20k concurrent online players (assuming their own published 2.5 alts per account / some stay logged off ofc) vs the idiot friendly, millions of subs giants.

That's also why it's important for CCP to try hold the old players, they preserve the "ancient mood" of the game, once they are gone then it's WoW-heads and CCP can't do anything but restrict their playerbase more and more. Or give in and make EvE just another piece of easy poo and then lose all.
CCP certainly are in for some hard choices come the next years.

Who will stay for 51 days each.

Im a newbie who loves carebearing, hates nerdy bitter vets and has stayed over 5,5 months already.

Now GTFO with your generalisations and go crawl back up your moms a** telling her how uberleet internet hero you are in your PvP niche in EVE, she will surely be proud of you as long as you dont mentally cross the 12 years old line, where you will start being weird. SHOO!

2 questions here:

1) CCP making gate guns so good you cant have gate camps in low secs with the following updates?


2) I am still missing OPs point.... sounded like he really enjoyed the gate camp feature which is considered a rather low value for PVP content by a lot of folks so why quit cause of that just kills me, please elaborate a bit more.

Im a newbie who loves carebearing, hates nerdy bitter vets and has stayed over 5,5 months already.

Now GTFO with your generalisations and go crawl back up your moms a** telling her how uberleet internet hero you are in your PvP niche in EVE, she will surely be proud of you as long as you dont mentally cross the 12 years old line, where you will start being weird. SHOO!

I'm not leaving over the gate gun issue. Not for the reason you're thinking, at any rate. I'm not leaving because I won't be able to gate camp. I'm leaving because it's just a dumb choice to spend effort on when CCP could implement any number of changes that would have a greater and more positive effect. It's the thought process behind the change that is the issue, not the change itself.

Because EVE PvP is not worth any tears, because its just plain dumb.

...When I was a new player, Eve was incredibly lethal. Jump into a .4, get your face blown off. Rinse, repeat. Your life span was usually dictated by how long you could hold your cloak at a gate. ...

Thats where I win EVE, a newbie in an npc corp who will be gradually more and more catered to. Thats where all of you bitter vets lose, spilling tears of nostalgy and praying for a "hardcore uber evil video game" which wiill never work if made for profit.

They could develop a new game if they're after the Facebook bucks, instead of changing something that has a proven history of working well (albeit with a low growth rate). No one says CCP has to be a one-game company. They're taking a risk in casualizing EVE, which might not necessarily pay off. In fact, I'd venture to bet that it won't, simply because other MMOs do the pve stuff waaaaaay better.

People who wished cancer on me for killing their mission Ravens in 2008 are today leading some of the most hardcore pirate/war corporations in the game.

My opinion on OP and his opinions: Its time you bitter die-hard vets GTFO already, really.

Im laughing my *** off so hard at all of your "make a lot of effort to succeed" and "work hard to accomplish something". Get a ******* life kid, because this is a video game and those are supposed to be fun, not pain.

If you feel like you need to accomplish things by working hard, maybe its time you got your far a** away from your PC and started making your real life better instead of pursuing a tough internet guy career.

CCP: Keep on the good work, for every bitter no-lifer leaving the game due to the game becoming more of a game and less of a job, youll get 2 or 3 or more new subs instead.

They have tried, both with Dust (we'll see how it'll do) and the emo vampires MMO. Of course a small, non public company cannot put budget "out of nowhere" on multiple projects so they tried to "use" EvE for part of the development.

We see it did not go so well.

Because there's always the other part of the equation, you say they could make another game but then they will have to slow down developing the money maker and lose subs. As I said, hard choices.

TBH I agree with you on that point.

But let me tell you one thing, all trolling and ad hominem aside: there is a significant chance that after you play this game for an extended period of time, your style will shift to resemble that of a pvp-oriented player. You might think that's impossible now, but the more you progress through the game, the more confident you will feel, and at some point you will delve into the game's more-sordid aspects. At that point, one of two things are likely to happen:

1. You will wish that you had more opportunities to engage in different shenanigans, even if the game doesn't itself change (much like current-day pvpers lament the game's artificial limitations in such forms as local in 0.0, NPC navy ships in highsec, etc).
2. The game will still be getting continuously casualized (made safer) in an effort to bring in the Facebook bucks, and you are likely to take up the very same stance that we're so vehemently defending right now.

In my adventures, I've encountered many people who shared your current beliefs. The majority of those people quit within a few months, but something interesting happened to the others. They "grew up," in EVE terms, and are now some of the best pvpers I know. People who wished cancer on me for killing their mission Ravens in 2008 are today leading some of the most hardcore pirate/war corporations in the game.

Mark my words: if you stick around here long enough, you will change, and you will feel silly about saying the stuff you did. It's not just an empty promise; I have many years of empirical evidence to support this claim.

Well, I find nothing wrong with the vampire MMO per se. The problem was that they said "welp, we're going to pause with the EVE stuff for a few years to work on pretty avatars." If they developed it alongside EVE, without dipping into the resources allocated for the latter (at least to a great extent), then why not? I mean, **** it, I'd play me some vampires. Sounds interesting, and I'd have no problem kicking them a sub if it's a worthy game.

Well if enough people will kick them a sub, why not allocate more resources to it. It isn't irrational.

Oh dear, they're shooting the jita statue, let them eat... er drink... cake. No, blood.

I never risk anything I would regret losing and the few times I got caught, I just stood there waitign for my ship to explode and my pod pop, ignoring the incoming convos telling me how terribad I am and the values of ransoms I should pay and following hatemails telling me how I suck for carebearing and you know what?

if you get a fight it's because either A) the other side wanted to fight,

What does CCP's financial structure look like, do they have the ol' Quarterly Report pressure or something like that?

I'm quite sure what you meant was "Other side is prepared to fight".
Yep, fighting someone who is willing and prepared is a pain in the butt.
You may, like, loose or something.

Five words

General Catalyst Partners
Novator Partners

When I was a new player, Eve was incredibly lethal. Jump into a .4, get your face blown off.

That has happened before and there were no tears. Because EVE PvP is not worth any tears, because its just plain dumb. Fights are decided before they even start and for a newbie with no veteran back-up, the outcome is always the same.

I never risk anything I would regret losing and the few times I got caught, I just stood there waitign for my ship to explode and my pod pop, ignoring the incoming convos telling me how terribad I am and the values of ransoms I should pay and following hatemails telling me how I suck for carebearing and you know what?

It seems it made them PvP sl*ts even more angry and depressed because I didnt really give a **** about their F1 pewpew. Thats where I win EVE, a newbie in an npc corp who will be gradually more and more catered to. Thats where all of you bitter vets lose, spilling tears of nostalgy and praying for a "hardcore uber evil video game" which wiill never work if made for profit.

Boo-hoo!

EVE has changed. I give you that. But it was certainly not more dangerous back then than it is today. Maybe you want to enlighten me though and tell me what you think made EVE so super safe and cuddly nowadays, cause your OP certainly doesn't do it.

EVE has changed. I give you that. But it was certainly not more dangerous back then than it is today. Maybe you want to enlighten me though and tell me what you think made EVE so super safe and cuddly nowadays, cause your OP certainly doesn't do it.

To the OP:

Although I understand your point of view.

I think you should take in consideration, that you changed as well.

And with that I do mean both character and the RL person.

Your personal feel of fear in this game has dropped and your skill in avoiding danger when you have to has risen.

As a much younger player I can remember my first trip to low sec as being very scary, nothing happened but Adrinaline was pumping through my vains.

First PvP fight I chose to engage myself felt like a freefall from 10.000 feet.

Now I don't scout ahead when traveling to low sec. I know the drills en what should get away rom what ever gatecamp there is.

And if I loose a t1 ship I don't think to much about it, and nowa days I get most kicks out fly ships that I consider expensive in to places I consider dangerous.

I understand that ater playing for 8 years there is little you can't aford to loose anymore, nothing you haven't tried and few secrects left to the game.

no simple CCP change is going to change that aside maybe for an entire new engame mechanic.

But consider that to those not playing for as long as you do, EVE is still considered a dangerous place, maybe a little less dangerous what what is was, I'm not the right person to judge that.

If you're longing for a new challenge, maybe you should freese these characters and start a new one, whitout any help from the alts you have away rom the people you know, you still know the tricks, but you lack the resources and SP. it just might give back some of the thrills you had in the old days.

If you're longing for a new challenge, maybe you should freese these characters and start a new one, whitout any help from the alts you have away rom the people you know, you still know the tricks, but you lack the resources and SP. it just might give back some of the thrills you had in the old days.

Where 1 hard player quits, 3 soft hearted NeX Store loving, Gold Ammo Wanting, Daddy's Credit Card Holdin', teenagers will soon replace him. And Hilmar's dream gets a step closer to reality.

the entire "game is dieing" attitude sounds very much like wow forums, just saying

i think they should make the game harder, percental SP loss for characters when podded and no concord... but hey, i am not really the audience they cater to

you know, actual loss not this "bu-hu my ship got destroyed and my pod too, i got to buy a new clone and its so expensive and it costs isk that i can buy with rl cash if i am too lazy/stupid to get it myself"

N P C corp...

Basicially im qutting because ccp is making it harder to camp 0.4 gates and newbies are getting smarter and im not getting tons of easy kills, also because after the barge patch i wont be able to gank barges non stop

emo rage quit bye o/

Actually, carebears tend to be much older, mature and financially self-sufficient than "hard players". Simply because they dont have the time or desire to waste their lives "living hardcore pvp lives". They dont play to "overcome spectacular challenges" because they have enough of those in real world, they come to the virtual one to relax.

Its the 17y/o bullied fatties who make the best die-hard pvpers in any MMO, simply because they need to vent their frustration of failing at their real lives, all of their hate and desire to hurt other players comes simple from being inferior and hurt human beings.

So, Planetside 2 .. when will all of you bitter hater be gone? Can I help you get there faster?

Edit: BTW, pretty much the same scenario as WoW and GW2. According to "die hard veterans", WoW has been dying for like 6 years now and every new MMO will be the end of WoW. Apparently, reality is on the carebear side.

Jump into a .4, get your face blown off. Rinse, repeat. Your life span was usually dictated by how long you could hold your cloak at a gate.

Actually, carebears tend to be much older, mature and financially self-sufficient than "hard players". Simply because they dont have the time or desire to waste their lives "living hardcore pvp lives". They dont play to "overcome spectacular challenges" because they have enough of those in real world, they come to the virtual one to relax.

Its the 17y/o bullied fatties who make the best die-hard pvpers in any MMO, simply because they need to vent their frustration of failing at their real lives, all of their hate and desire to hurt other players comes simple from being inferior and hurt human beings.

Well-written, just the right amount of passive aggression to make it work. An easy 7/10. Would give it a higher score if it wasn't recycled material.

one troll less stop the f*cking QQ post jezus people need to read those dev post i think OP is brainless or what... Do you even think ccp cares about you? lmfao yah the do but not in the way that you have everything YOU NEED. There are more players.. Then ONLY YOU. Get over it go cry agains your mommy and ask why people are so rude.... Because trolling people and whiners are not nice people

"Eve is about pvp"

That was your first incorrect assumption.
Go play Wow if you don't want to show up in local.

Personally I think this is a game about internet spaceships. It just happens that almost all of the different ships in EVE are designed exclusively to fill various combat roles.

wow i've played eve on and off since it went retail many moons ago.

and every time i come into eve and check the forums, its full of elite players who moan about the game, moan about changes and moan about the fellow players.

all games are the same, you must keep players coming back. it isn't about keeping those players playing, but gettting them new people playing.

most of the older players all use plex so whats the deal? someone paid for that plex with money but i bet it wasn't you......


eve isn't about killing noobs. 0.8+ should be 100% secure for new players, the old players should get there rocks off doing something else than picking on noobs.

Gate guns have always been under powered. totally useless. gate camping isn't fun. its just griefing.


if you get your rocks off going after players with 5 million skillpoints then i'm glad your leaving. because it will make my gaming experience better.

Eve is what you make of it, whether that be collecting corpses, avatar dress up, or full-time ship spinning.
It can be a pvp game, but that's not all there is.

I don't understand why people keep thinking that they've found out what Eve is "about".

Sure, everybody is entitled to see EVE as they please, this game is a sum of many parts, but player vs player combat is what drives the whole universe, from mining and industry to trade. And that is a simple fact, not an opinion.

Consequently the other parts couldn't exist without pvp, especially not corpses

I often feel like the open despise towards PVP is tainted by limited exposure to pew, specifically to the most boring forms of it such as hisec station games, bad luck on gates or being a grunt in a null blob of a bad alliance. Even without any personal experience, these get thrown about so often that new players start to believe that's all there is to pvp.

Still even this does not explain why some posters can be so cross-eyed to actually suggest that all pvpers only want to kill nubs on gates, or suicide miners on belts. These activities omit the interesting aspects that EVE pvp consist of- strategy, co-operation, making space brosefs, outwitting your opponents. Hell, just setting up a POS inside a wormhole and living there is already pvp imho.

Controlling large fleets must be fun for the exclusive few, but solo and small gang is accessible to everyone.

It's way more than ctrl-click the primary, F1, and trust me, pvp in this game is absolutely fantastic.

I read a post earlier about some 3 year player binning his character because he was suicide ganked and then lost his Golem (LOL) to Concord because he "shot a Noctis" (i.e. he was an idiot and made a huge mistake).

I'm an 8 year+ player (I've lost count to be frank) and I've had at least two accounts subbed at a minimum for the entire 8+ years. This month will be the first time in 8 years that I have no characters in training.

Why? CCP has continued and will continue to make Eve less lethal. CCP continually makes Eve a safer place, easier to survive, with fewer opportunities to die horribly as a result of your mistakes. Essentially, they've dumbed down the game, and continue to do so.

When I was a new player, Eve was incredibly lethal. Jump into a .4, get your face blown off. Rinse, repeat. Your life span was usually dictated by how long you could hold your cloak at a gate. This part of the game was what kept me coming back for more. Extreme risk, extreme danger, extreme loss if you make a mistake.

Eve PVP is now garbage. It's not that the balance is that bad, or the mechanics are terrible. That part of the game is just fine. It's the inability to have non-concentual PVP. 99% of the time, if you get a fight it's because either A) the other side wanted to fight, or B) the other side made such a huge mistake that they ignored all signs of danger for 10+ minutes while you 'snuck up on them' in broad daylight, broadcasting your presence in local. Anyway, I digress.

With every change, CCP has removed risk, weighted the balance towards the defender and generally pampered those players who otherwise would have been murdered like sleeping baby seals.

Maybe one day the game will turn the corner and CCP will start making it more lethal again. I seriously doubt it, but it might happen. Until then, it's looking less and less likely that I'll find it worthwhile to log back in. It's sad really. CCP has finally managed to pummel my fanatical enthusiasm for the game into mush. I've been transformed from Eve evangelist to apathetic apologist. And the worst part is, all the other aspects of Eve have never been better: graphics, new ship models, missile trails, interface updates, market improvements, industry, invention, etc. etc. etc.

But that's not what Eve is about. Eve is about PVP. And until CCP fixes that, it's not worth subbing. Such a waste.


***EDIT***

Some addendum:

This post isn't about gate guns, or high sec or low sec or whatever. The players focusing on issues such as these are behaving like a person running at speed and looking straight down at their toes. The focus should be at the horizon, not at the base of your feet. Think bigger. Think more fundamentally about how the game is constructed and how it's (so poorly) organized for PVP and how fundamental changes in gameplay can radically improve the game over the long run. CCP keeps placating you with tiny improvements and distracting you with changes designed to generate controversy and discord.

So no, this isn't a "Goons ruined Eve" thread. It's not a whine thread. I'm just voting with my wallet. The only thing CCP understands.

What's changed in 8 years that makes Eve less dangerous? Is it mechanics, or is it player behavior?

That's not how it works when content-creating players leave the game.

lol, to the contrary, if we could just get another 30k or so bitter vets to leave this game could move into the 21st century instead of the death spiral it is on.

Beats adding two new boring ships a year and no other content because the bitter vets are pissed at all change

I was intending to read half the post and disregard it as a whine. I was wrong.

I actually agree with alot of what teh OP is saying. Eve IS becoming safer, it shouldnt. Sure some things need balancing, suicide ganking does need to be less prolific but other than that, there should be more pvp not less. Alot of what has been happening is actually reducing pvp and danger.

Miners did need a buff, teh ability to have ships that wont be ganked anythign liek as often. However, it surely wont end suicide ganking as many people will still opt for high yield low tank ships, they will die. That is right, it should be able to happen.

Gate guns that pretty much end lowsec pvp at gates? No thanks. Station games where you can avoid pvp? No thanks. Making easy ways to avoid pvp? No thanks.

Add ways for players to defend themselves, not add mechanics to make them safe. Make more reasons for players to go to dangerous places, not make the places safer. Make the players make themselves safer, dont hold their hands and wrap them in cotton wool.


Keep Eve harsh. When I started in 07 everythign was harder than it is today, and it was even harder before that by all accounts. Stop making it softer, but give people more to play with and let them roll with it. Balance what is needed, but stop making everything safer.

the "bittervets" want new ships, filling unique roles, added to the game, the carebears are the ones who moan about new ships being added to the game that can potentially be used to mercilessly murder them in hisec

Let's see:

Instakilling, permajamming and instaneuting CONCORD, halving of CONCORD response times, removal of insurance payouts for losses to CONCORD, HP buff to all ships which was supposed to "increase the length of fights" but only served to make ships much safer in hisec, the ability to set stations as autopilot destinations

There's more than that too!

When I was a new player, Eve was incredibly lethal. Jump into a .4, get your face blown off. Rinse, repeat. Your life span was usually dictated by how long you could hold your cloak at a gate. This part of the game was what kept me coming back for more. Extreme risk, extreme danger, extreme loss if you make a mistake.

lol, make more **** up, wait...

let me get my tinfoil hat

shut up, the goon is right.

and we can tell by the critical points you made...

Guess what, shut up doesn't work on the internets

When companies take on new ventures, they find methods to finance them before doing so. What CCP tried to do was take the money that they needed to maintain their cash cow (EVE), not just the surplus generated from operations, and divert it into a new project, and that's something you LOL simply don't do. Go to the bank and get a loan or something, but do not stop buying feed for the headless chicken that draws all the people to your carnival.

Let's see:

Instakilling, permajamming and instaneuting CONCORD, halving of CONCORD response times, removal of insurance payouts for losses to CONCORD, HP buff to all ships which was supposed to "increase the length of fights" but only served to make ships much safer in hisec, the ability to set stations as autopilot destinations

There's more than that too!