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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
6
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Posted - 2011.10.11 07:57:00 -
[841] - Quote
I too know that CCP does not play in 0.0. Go to highsec and CCP can work magic for you.
BoltsBitch wrote:My carriers fighters allready occasionally totally miss battleships and now you are saying they will only have ONE THIRD of thier current tracking? What the hell?
<-áI believe he is right > Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
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Forlorn Wongraven
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 07:59:00 -
[842] - Quote
So tl;dr of the devblog:
maintaining and training supercarrier gets easier and cheaper (no drone skills except FB4/5), characters get cheaper on Bazaar - more supercap proliferation 25 mil skillpoints toons will be able to have everything needed at 5 longtime impact on supercarrier production: will get cheaper, probably soon only T2 fitted? you need more guys to cover your supercap fleet, so alliances will form bigger powerbloc if they want to get stuff done when sov mechanics gets changed supercarriers are useless again no ratting supercarriers/ carriers kills when roaming cause fighter changes small alliance with small blue list will have issues to do anything sov related, pretty sure that is what we all are looking forward dreadnoughts become viable again [*] titans can still hit subcaps Ugleb > and TDR won't log in so long as their core members are demotivated for whichever reason is in flavour this week |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 07:59:00 -
[843] - Quote
Akara Ito wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:Tippia wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:What I am saying here is that alliances with massive amounts of low SP toons will be able to completely dominate high SP toons This is a good thing. SP is not a measurement of power GÇö we are not playing an XP/Level/Class game here. Then why doesn't everyone get max skills from day 1 ? SP is a measurement of power. Thinking it isn't, is insanity. Given that if two players are max skilled at flying a hurricane it comes down to skill and fittings. If one player is max skilled and the other has barely enough SP to fly the ship, how can you say that SP is not a measurement of power in a situation like that ? Not only does SP affect what ships you can fly but it effects just about every modification you put on said ship. SP is not completely useless but you need a lot more than "All V" to be successfull. And thats how its meant to be, a very good Pilot with an "All IV" char should beat a average or bad pilot with an "All V" char if they fly comparable ships. This is a bit of the problem with supers. Subcap fleets can be countered with all kinds of stuff, a counter fleet concept, a better fc on the other side, better intel, better pilot motivation/reshipping etc. It doesnt matter how large a subcap fleet is as the pure numbers are allways just an indicator and good FCs will beat larger fleets then they command for example. Supers are a bit more simple and while tactic helps, I havent yet seen a single fight beeing won by the faction that compensated less supers with superior tactics. The general idea of this nerf seems to be to keep supers, especially supercarrier, out of subcap fights, and that sounds good for me because the things I mentioned above are now going to be more important.
I agree that at the moment things are a little off. I think this patch is far in excess of what should be done however. Giving capitals a penalty to normal combat drone damage or lowing the amount they can deploy would be legit and something I think a lot of opposed pilots could live with.
Not to mention the fighter nerf is going to make regular carriers crap.
On the off hand as well, Capitals and Super Capitals are a part of 0.0 warfare. It is what they were designed for. True they get brought into low-sec on occasion but the real point here is that people are looking to exclude entire ship types from fleet fights just because one side can't or won't field Caps of their own. |
Acwron
Anormalii S.A. Vera Cruz Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:01:00 -
[844] - Quote
Joshua Samson wrote:So your supercarrier can get tackled by a single HIC and its hard to get out. Well tough **** cupcake, how about you bring that support that should go with your massive capital?
Awesome changes. Only thing i would also like to see is titan gun tracking nerf and a cyno spin-up timer thingy.
All I can see in the NERF side is : It's cool to be tackled by a lousy dictor and just can't hit it...After all, you fly a 17 bill Hull price SC and a dictor is like...how much? And he's playing with you LOL...and another LOL...here comes another LOL !!!
Let me guess...you never flew anything else but that lousy drake, did you?
I want all my SP spent on carrier 5, titan 5, capital turret 5, DD...
NERF NERF !!! The drake army shouts ! Nerf what you can't fly, boost what you can ! Good politics !
BIG GRIM at you guys...Eve is already old enough, dying soon...Was fun but hey, there are plenty of other options, really. |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
6
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:01:00 -
[845] - Quote
I too feel like I have been playing a Beta since 2004.
Dr 0wnage wrote:You guys are on the right track, but are missing a few things here... Super HP nerf - Reducing 20% across the board is the WRONG way to go about this! Please look at the ships individually! As it is currently the Aeon has nearly 3x the ehp of the Hel, and more then some of the titans. That imbalance will not change with a generic HP reduction. Fixing the logoff mechanic will solve much of the "theyre too hard to kill" problem. Go for a balance, not a straight up nerf! Fighters - Right idea, but wrong way to implement it. All this will do is make regular carriers that much less valuable in fleet fights. If a fighter can't hit a sub cap then wth is it supposed to hit?? Simply reduce the number of fighters supers can deploy and problem is solved. Dreadnoughts - These ships are currently combat ineffective. There are no changes here that will change that. The 5 minute siege timer will help them avoid getting dropped by supers easier, but that in no way changes their effectiveness in a fleet fight. Dreads need their HP doubled (with an increase in production cost) and need a damage bonus to specifically supercaps. A general damage increase will not work as it will make them more effective against sub-caps and other dreads / carriers. Titans - Can we say turret tracking anyone?? All in all its definitely a step in the right direction. One thing we all should consider is why do so many super pilots bring their ship to a fight? Well they can't swap to a smaller ship very easily now can they?? ;-) Is it time yet for docking rights? More wonderful ideas on doc's super balance thread here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=13411
<-áI believe he is right > Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
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Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:03:00 -
[846] - Quote
why is everyone whining about how much the supercaps cost? The whole point of counters in a game like this are that more expensive != more powerful and it never should!
If that ever happens, the richest will always win, and that should not be the case.
Sometimes your counters are more expensive: AHACs > Hellcats Sometimes your counters are cheaper: Drakes > AHACS
the key to this game is strategy not just bring the biggest sledgehammer. |
Trader 99
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:03:00 -
[847] - Quote
These changes are long overdue. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
438
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:04:00 -
[848] - Quote
[quote=AcwronAll I can see in the NERF side is : It's cool to be tackled by a lousy dictor and just can't hit it...After all, you fly a 17 bill Hull price SC and a dictor is like...how much?[/quote]GǪit is $irrelevant. You are flying a ship that is not meant to take on subcaps, and most certainly not cruisers; he is flying a ship that is meant to take on supercaps. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:05:00 -
[849] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:Sigras wrote:Oh no! you'll be forced to use the supercarrier to do what it was originally designed to do! the horror! the horror! If it was only originally designed to kill capitals, then why exactly can it do everything it can currently ? Its not as though they just threw them on the server without testing them on the test server. Because of course CCP never does anything without fully thinking it through . . . |
Ciryath Al'Darion
FinFleet Raiden.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:06:00 -
[850] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote: the real point here is that people are looking to exclude entire ship types from fleet fights just because one side can't or won't field Caps of their own.
This.
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Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Universal Consortium
7
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Posted - 2011.10.11 08:07:00 -
[851] - Quote
Velin Dhal wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:ITT: Crying nullbears grieving for their "IWIN!!!!111oneone!!1" buttons.
Adapt and evolve, or GTFO.
Here is an idea. Go macro in your Orca and hulk toons and STFU. Leave the topic to people who actually have pvp experience.
I literally snorted coffee out my nose, this made me laugh so hard!
I have plenty of PvP experience, mate. Sov-warfare/super-blobbing is not anything I would remotely associate with actual proper PvP, at least as EVE's core-ethos defines it.
So....are you going to sell off some of your bot-accounts now that supers may be worth less? Time will tell, I suppose... |
Anile8er
Origin. Black Legion.
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:08:00 -
[852] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:i guess my biggest complaint with the super carriers was their ability to just MOW though the sov structures like butter.
I though this was the primary task of dreadknots.
So now the only use for the deadknot is to just shoot Towers.
Fighter bomber damage needs to be tuned down. Other than the Doomsday, the dread should be the final word in capital damage platforms, I have supported this since the supercap buff.
SC drone bays need to be left alone or tuned down in a less harsh manner.
For example enough space to fit 40 bomber or fighter size drones and 2000 m3 for smaller drones. This would greatly limit the "endless" ecm drone waves. However it would give supers a chance to deal with that "initial" 1 or 2 tacklers.
Also the change to fighters is pretty stupid. Has anyone ever looked at a fighter in the game? They are a bit smaller than an interceptor, they individually do the dps of a T1 frigate, the EHP of a buff Assault frigate, and they are about as fast as a frigate. So a "ship" that is smaller than a frigate, about the same speed and hit points has guns that can't hit a BS or BC well? what is the logic here? In theory fighters should be able to dual with frigate class ships based on size, speed and HP. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.10.11 08:08:00 -
[853] - Quote
Sigras wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:Sigras wrote:Oh no! you'll be forced to use the supercarrier to do what it was originally designed to do! the horror! the horror! If it was only originally designed to kill capitals, then why exactly can it do everything it can currently ? Its not as though they just threw them on the server without testing them on the test server. Because of course CCP never does anything without fully thinking it through . . .
True enough. Though going from one extreme to the other isn't the right thing to do. This patch seems to be another case of CCP not thinking this through. With a little more thought and some DEVs actually reading this thread, I'm sure we could reach a median that everyone could live with. |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
50
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:09:00 -
[854] - Quote
Forgot to add: Being able to keep an enemy ship in space indefinitely is really, really crappy design and while it allows for some loltastic mails it will do more harm than good.
I would recommend allowing one extension of timer (ie. 30 minutes maximum) and removing auto-repeat for modules on logoff. If someone is incapable of killing an unhardened ship in that much time they seriously need to re-evaluate their ship/friend/tactic choice .. goes double now that super EHP are to be lowered and the 'feature' confirmed to apply to all ships.
PS: With suggested changes I can solo kill an Aeon in my Slicer if in just shy of 20 hours .. great "lulz" but hardly appropriate. |
Sigras
Conglomo IMPERIAL LEGI0N
16
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:12:00 -
[855] - Quote
Anile8er wrote:Also the change to fighters is pretty stupid. Has anyone ever looked at a fighter in the game? The are a bit smaller than an interceptor, they individually do the dps of a T1 frigate, the EHP of a buff Assault frigate, and they are about as fast as a frigate. So a "ship" that is smaller than a frigate, about the same speed and hit points has guns that can't hit a BS or BC well? what is the logic here? In theory fighters should be able to dual with frigate class ships based on size, speed and HP.
Have you ever seen a heavy drone? |
Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
18
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Posted - 2011.10.11 08:13:00 -
[856] - Quote
Anile8er wrote:I can afford to loose my Nyx... thats why i use it. It's more that CCP is making my Nyx useless other than killing caps, and more so useless to me because I am not in a giant blob alliance, and I cant change into another ship.
You can still dps structures as fast as 15 players in battleships, same against other capitals, and can absorb as much damage as 100 battleships. If an enemy fleet of your size and composition choose to focus you first, your sacrifice win the fleet battle. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
440
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:14:00 -
[857] - Quote
Might as well repost this in the correct thread:
Fighters vs. the GÇ£standardGÇ¥ 400m sigrad battleship:
Firbolg: currently 72% DPS GåÆ 7.2% (18% with a TP). Dragonfly: currently 98% DPS GåÆ 61% (77% with a TP). Einherji: currently 58% DPS GåÆ 3.4% (9% with a TP). Templar: currently 96% DPS GåÆ 59% (76% with a TP).
I retract my previous stance GÇö no skill bonus needed. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Leon Razor
Measure Zero
0
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:14:00 -
[858] - Quote
Well 16 hours and 42 pages later it's nice to see the community arguing (constructively?) over a FiS feature this time. I know something like this has been said at least once here, but I think they need to hear it again just in case they haven't gotten it yet.
CCP:
- Read this entire thread, there are reasonable suggestions here from both sides
- Make some adjustments
- Make another blog about it
- Read another 40+ page thread
- Maybe repeat this process a few times
- Then post a final list of balance changes well before the patch day
- Be prepared to make adjustments before the next big expansion
If you are really serious about listening to your player base and regaining their trust, you are going to need lots of two way communication. I know you gather a lot of info before deciding on changes like these, but you need to continue that process up to and after release. Most people feel like balance changes are simple database value updates that are easy to do, so since it's relatively quick to implement them, spend the extra time talking and listening to us, and don't wait 18 months to react.
Aside from the harsh vs effective (SC vs blob) arguments, a general issue people on both sides seem to have with these changes is that they are too flat, e.g.
- Overall HP -20% VS a variable HP nerf that considers the unique properties of each ship
- Removing all drones VS something like a smaller drone bay for non-fighters (like you did with the separate fuel cargo bays)
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Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:15:00 -
[859] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Velin Dhal wrote:Lyrrashae wrote:ITT: Crying nullbears grieving for their "IWIN!!!!111oneone!!1" buttons.
Adapt and evolve, or GTFO.
Here is an idea. Go macro in your Orca and hulk toons and STFU. Leave the topic to people who actually have pvp experience. I literally snorted coffee out my nose, this made me laugh so hard! I have plenty of PvP experience, mate. Sov-warfare/super-blobbing is not anything I would remotely associate with actual proper PvP, at least as EVE's core-ethos defines it. So....are you going to sell off some of your bot-accounts now that supers may be worth less? Time will tell, I suppose...
lol your original post made me laugh as well. So I had to go with something extreme |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:15:00 -
[860] - Quote
You know it. CCP is so blind in order to get more subs they are willing to chop off their own nose.
Silence iKillYouu wrote:Everyone will be unsubbing there cap alts.
<-áI believe he is right > Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
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Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
216
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Posted - 2011.10.11 08:15:00 -
[861] - Quote
I don't fly caps nor do I really want to anytime soon, but one thing that irks me about the changes is the general lack of creativity. Many changes seem to effect all ships of the size/class the same and none really play into racial themes at all. The changes are "easy." Nerfing and changing the ships is fine, but at least try to find a proper role for them while you're at it.
Dreads have siege mode - this is good, and the idea ought to be carried over to other capital ships. Specialized modes that fit with the theme of the ship's class.
Carriers have triage - this is bad. This role really ought to be moved to a special class of capital logistics ships. On carriers I would actually require a Theater Defense Module, which must be active in order to assign fighters to ships off-grid. Else fighters would be limitted to the grid.
Titans ought to be the ultimate mobile command platform. They should be the critical center of a large fleet. More than a bridge and a giant cannon, give them the role of as a sort of super command ship. An area of effect bonus to allied ships that are on grid with them. Also I'd like to see Doomsday removed entirely and replaced with something more useful and tricky than "big gun go boom." What if the Leviathan could field a massively powerful ECM burst? Or the Avatar had a pulse to sap a fleet's capacitors 50%? Some sort of powerful effect that could, when used at the right time, change the tide of battle. |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises BricK sQuAD.
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:17:00 -
[862] - Quote
I too realize CCP is making bad choices.
Bluemelon wrote:All I am gonna say is, this is a massive **** you to the older players who have earnt their isk without RMT'ing and being whiny faggots.
Titans can be killed by 90 Hurricanes. Simple. They are balanced. Supers, are not. If I choose to put my titan stationary and in a system for 10mins for doomsdaying a ******* loki, thats my choice.
Stupid change
<-áI believe he is right > Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
|
Anile8er
Origin. Black Legion.
14
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:19:00 -
[863] - Quote
Leon Razor wrote:Well 16 hours and 42 pages later it's nice to see the community arguing (constructively?) over a FiS feature this time. I know something like this has been said at least once here, but I think they need to hear it again just in case they haven't gotten it yet. CCP:
- Read this entire thread, there are reasonable suggestions here from both sides
- Make some adjustments
- Make another blog about it
- Read another 40+ page thread
- Maybe repeat this process a few times
- Then post a final list of balance changes well before the patch day
- Be prepared to make adjustments before the next big expansion
If you are really serious about listening to your player base and regaining their trust, you are going to need lots of two way communication. I know you gather a lot of info before deciding on changes like these, but you need to continue that process up to and after release. Most people feel like balance changes are simple database value updates that are easy to do, so since it's relatively quick to implement them, spend the extra time talking and listening to us, and don't wait 18 months to react. Aside from the harsh vs effective (SC vs blob) arguments, a general issue people on both sides seem to have with these changes is that they are too flat, e.g.
- Overall HP -20% VS a variable HP nerf that considers the unique properties of each ship
- Removing all drones VS something like a smaller drone bay for non-fighters (like you did with the separate fuel cargo bays)
Signed |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:21:00 -
[864] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:I don't fly caps nor do I really want to anytime soon, but one thing that irks me about the changes is the general lack of creativity. Many changes seem to effect all ships of the size/class the same and none really play into racial themes at all. The changes are "easy." Nerfing and changing the ships is fine, but at least try to find a proper role for them while you're at it.
Dreads have siege mode - this is good, and the idea ought to be carried over to other capital ships. Specialized modes that fit with the theme of the ship's class.
Carriers have triage - this is bad. This role really ought to be moved to a special class of capital logistics ships. On carriers I would actually require a Theater Defense Module, which must be active in order to assign fighters to ships off-grid. Else fighters would be limitted to the grid.
Titans ought to be the ultimate mobile command platform. They should be the critical center of a large fleet. More than a bridge and a giant cannon, give them the role of as a sort of super command ship. An area of effect bonus to allied ships that are on grid with them. Also I'd like to see Doomsday removed entirely and replaced with something more useful and tricky than "big gun go boom." What if the Leviathan could field a massively powerful ECM burst? Or the Avatar had a pulse to sap a fleet's capacitors 50%? Some sort of powerful effect that could, when used at the right time, change the tide of battle.
For a pilot that doesn't fly caps, I think you just had the most creative and exciting idea in this entire thread. |
Velin Dhal
Blood Phage Syndicate The Dominion Empire
7
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:22:00 -
[865] - Quote
Leon Razor wrote:Well 16 hours and 42 pages later it's nice to see the community arguing (constructively?) over a FiS feature this time. I know something like this has been said at least once here, but I think they need to hear it again just in case they haven't gotten it yet. CCP:
- Read this entire thread, there are reasonable suggestions here from both sides
- Make some adjustments
- Make another blog about it
- Read another 40+ page thread
- Maybe repeat this process a few times
- Then post a final list of balance changes well before the patch day
- Be prepared to make adjustments before the next big expansion
If you are really serious about listening to your player base and regaining their trust, you are going to need lots of two way communication. I know you gather a lot of info before deciding on changes like these, but you need to continue that process up to and after release. Most people feel like balance changes are simple database value updates that are easy to do, so since it's relatively quick to implement them, spend the extra time talking and listening to us, and don't wait 18 months to react. Aside from the harsh vs effective (SC vs blob) arguments, a general issue people on both sides seem to have with these changes is that they are too flat, e.g.
- Overall HP -20% VS a variable HP nerf that considers the unique properties of each ship
- Removing all drones VS something like a smaller drone bay for non-fighters (like you did with the separate fuel cargo bays)
Agreed
|
Psymn
Spiritus Draconis
1
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:22:00 -
[866] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:Titans ought to be the ultimate mobile command platform. They should be the critical center of a large fleet. More than a bridge and a giant cannon, give them the role of as a sort of super command ship. An area of effect bonus to allied ships that are on grid with them. Also I'd like to see Doomsday removed entirely and replaced with something more useful and tricky than "big gun go boom." What if the Leviathan could field a massively powerful ECM burst? Or the Avatar had a pulse to sap a fleet's capacitors 50%? Some sort of powerful effect that could, when used at the right time, change the tide of battle.
Titans already do give racial boosts to their fleet. |
Silence iKillYouu
The Innocent Criminals
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:23:00 -
[867] - Quote
WOW look at all the nyx's and other SC's for sale.
Titans cost 90bill on public forums atm. why shouldn't they be as good as they are?
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Ciryath Al'Darion
FinFleet Raiden.
5
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:24:00 -
[868] - Quote
Jada Maroo wrote:I don't fly caps nor do I really want to anytime soon, but one thing that irks me about the changes is the general lack of creativity.
You have to remember you are talking about company that used atleast 1 year of active development for a feature and after having it basically ready, realized that there is no content to for a game.
Lack of creativity indeed. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Universal Consortium
8
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:26:00 -
[869] - Quote
Kabaos wrote:You are crazy? Mothership without small,medium and large drones.. Yes , eve goes down..
No, your EVE goes down.
And this is a good thing. |
Jada Maroo
Mysterium Astrometrics BRABODEN
216
|
Posted - 2011.10.11 08:28:00 -
[870] - Quote
Psymn wrote:
Titans already do give racial boosts to their fleet.
Wow, that was quick!
I totally overlooked that boost. Oh well, like I said, I don't fly them. |
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