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[SHIP] SMALL FREIGHTER

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2005.10.13 05:03:00 - [31] disagree.
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.13 05:10:00 - [32] Originally by: TheNecromancer disagree. Why do yu disagree?
TheNecromancer	Posted - 2005.10.13 05:24:00 - [33] I disagree on the price tag. today in EVE..it costs a lot to get a ship with a good amount of M3 in it here I mean..the cargo expanders are very expensive..a 27.44% easy cost 50mil+ so..a Occator or any other transport ship..with 6 of those costs easy 400mil+. so..any other transport ship..should cost at least 500mil+ and the freighter cost today around 1b-1.5b. so..I think the leap between the transporter and the freighter is..as it should be. I do know..that ofcause you cant use the freighter to haul from asterioid belts.. but..I dont think there is a need for a new transport ship..with a price on..500-700mil maybe..the freighter actual only cost around 600-700mil to make (if you dont count the bpo's cost)
Draenor Thalander	Posted - 2005.10.13 06:18:00 - [34] How about this: A larger industrial, _and_ a smaller freighter. Everyone wins!
Arte	Posted - 2005.10.13 11:41:00 - [35] Originally by: TheNecromancer I disagree on the price tag.today in EVE..it costs a lot to get a ship with a good amount of M3 in ithere I mean..the cargo expanders are very expensive..a 27.44% easy cost 50mil+so..a Occator or any other transport ship..with 6 of those costs easy 400mil+.so..any other transport ship..should cost at least 500mil+ ...... I think you're missing the point on price. Being able to equip an industrial with close on half a billion isk worth of kit doesn't mean that there isn't a gap in the market. The leap between industrial and freighter is as you say, as it should be. It's huge. For the capability of the freighter compared to an industrial that's right. What's being asked for here is a mid range option. I could afford and indeed have the need for a 200-300mil ship if it's going to get me greatly increased hauling power for trade runs. I can't afford nor have a need for a freighter. My 'business needs' just aren't that big. It's not cost effective. Using your arguement though, we shouldn't have that option because the option is to spend even more on mods to achieve a fraction of the benefit. That the price of a ship fitted with these mods is close on half the price of a freighter doesn't mean there isn't a need for a mini-freighter. A progression of industrial ships in the similar style to combat ships.
Arte	Posted - 2005.10.13 11:46:00 - [36] Originally by: SentryRaven Originally by: Arte I think the following could be agreed on: 4. Skill requirements. They should be in the region of the freighter skill requirements which I think is agreed would mean at least "industrial V". Whether it's a seperate "heavy cargo" skill or the same freighter skill requirements, it's agreed that it shouldn't be easy to get. Anyone think different? I agree to everything but this small part of your ideas. I have taken an eyee on requirements on freighter skills... and this is an immense cost already. From my point of view Industrial lvl 5 is time consuming already... and a special skill around 5M ISK would be enough to fly the new ship class. I want that new freighter class to be affordable for player's who have just made it to 150M ISK.... cause it has been enought time from start to there... You're right, the cost of the skills to fly freighters is prohibitive as it is, I didn't look at that side of it. Although I still think they should be hard to get training time wise. Perhaps Transport skills are enough, or an equivelent as you suggested? Definatley at least industrial V though imo.
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.13 17:37:00 - [37] Originally by: Arte Although I still think they should be hard to get training time wise. Perhaps Transport skills are enough, or an equivelent as you suggested? Definatley at least industrial V though imo. That would be my suggestions for the new ship: Industrial V Space Ship Command IV Cargo Transport II (new skill around 5 - 10M and takes some 7 days for lvl II) Trade I (cause it's a trader's ship... ;) ) This would be my suggestion.... Industrial skill takes a ****load of time and Cargo Transport would be the cost factor in the skilling... Any other suggestions?
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.10.13 17:42:00 - [38] Originally by: TheNecromancer I disagree on the price tag. today in EVE..it costs a lot to get a ship with a good amount of M3 in it here I mean..the cargo expanders are very expensive..a 27.44% easy cost 50mil+ so..a Occator or any other transport ship..with 6 of those costs easy 400mil+. so..any other transport ship..should cost at least 500mil+ and the freighter cost today around 1b-1.5b. so..I think the leap between the transporter and the freighter is..as it should be. I do know..that ofcause you cant use the freighter to haul from asterioid belts.. but..I dont think there is a need for a new transport ship..with a price on..500-700mil maybe..the freighter actual only cost around 600-700mil to make (if you dont count the bpo's cost) Your comparing apples and oranges. Freightors nor the proposed mini freighter have... 1) slots - for any use (dont forget freighters get shot at too) 2) ability to pick up or make jet cans - so they cannot help with mining ops or anything else requiring pick ups 3) they require more skills to use 4) the costs you mention are upgrades for the transports, freighters are unupgradable so ur limited in use again 5) you cannot hide your cargo in containers in a freighter the way you can in haulers 6) they warp and jump to warp slower I think enough difference exists here to say a mini freighter is warranted. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
Smart Bomb	Posted - 2005.10.13 19:58:00 - [39] T2 Industrial ships!!!
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.13 20:24:00 - [40] Originally by: Smart Bomb T2 Industrial ships!!! Thanks for the bump... but please read the thread... we do NOT want T2 industrials.... P.S.: I wonder why I haven't seen any Faction Industrials in Game.... Sansha's Blood Hauler ??
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.10.13 23:13:00 - [41] Originally by: SentryRaven P.S.: I wonder why I haven't seen any Faction Industrials in Game.... Sansha's Blood Hauler ?? because it isnt sexy enough to be brought up in the development forums normally. i have noticed that faction goodies all tend to revolve around the ability to blow stuff up. why not faction indies, faction barges etc idont see why they arent in the game already other than that it isnt considered to be desireable items to collect TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:07:00 - [42] Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse Originally by: SentryRaven P.S.: I wonder why I haven't seen any Faction Industrials in Game.... Sansha's Blood Hauler ?? because it isnt sexy enough to be brought up in the development forums normally. i have noticed that faction goodies all tend to revolve around the ability to blow stuff up. why not faction indies, faction barges etc idont see why they arent in the game already other than that it isnt considered to be desireable items to collect I still don't understand why so many things in the game are about blowing up stuff. I admit that I like it too, and I know it's a important thing about the game.... Well... back to topic... WE WANT SMALL FREIGHTERS!!
Tekran	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:15:00 - [43] Omir Sarikusa's Blood Retriever, loaded with Dark Blood Strip Miners? yes please? anyhow.. indeed, its perhaps too large a gap between larget Indies and and smallest Frieghter. a mid-sized ship class with the ability to interface with POS' hangers and equipment. give it the same overnerfed lack of slots and shoddy speed if need be, it just needs to get out there, deliver fuel/ships/equipment and remove t2 compounds and refined minerals. a freighter is fine station to station, but there is a need out there for this midrole to make logistics and material transfer more effective. "I don't wear panties, for the record. Commando 4tw! ~ Abdalion"
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.10.14 09:24:00 - [44] t2 haulers soudn the go
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.10.14 17:32:00 - [45] Originally by: Tekran Omir Sarikusa's Blood Retriever, loaded with Dark Blood Strip Miners? yes please? anyhow.. indeed, its perhaps too large a gap between larget Indies and and smallest Frieghter. a mid-sized ship class with the ability to interface with POS' hangers and equipment. give it the same overnerfed lack of slots and shoddy speed if need be, it just needs to get out there, deliver fuel/ships/equipment and remove t2 compounds and refined minerals. a freighter is fine station to station, but there is a need out there for this midrole to make logistics and material transfer more effective. The main reason I'd like to see the small freighter start at around 150km3 or so and be station to station is so the local expander market and whatnot doesn't get fooled with overmuch. With locals/partials you can easily get a hauler up to and well beyond the capability to carry the contents of a jetcan, especially with secure cans. If a new hauler came about that was say 60km3 it would eradicate the need to drive a transport in empire space from station to station. So again, station to station - 150k-200km3, pricetag large enough to differentiate it from a transport + 6 locals (400k or so), so would need to be 400k-450k build price to fit the niche just right.
Butter Dog	Posted - 2005.10.14 23:36:00 - [46] Great idea.
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.15 19:12:00 - [47] So how do we convince a dev of the idea??
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.16 13:55:00 - [48] No one got an idea?
Brolly	Posted - 2005.10.16 17:41:00 - [49] /me agrees so far, combat wise we have frigs, assault, covert ops, inerceptor destroyer Cruisers, hacs, the other 1 battle cruisers Battle ships Dreads (soon) Titans Carriers Mining Barges Industrial Indy's, tech 2 Freighters Manufacture, trade and hauling is the lifeblood of the game and patch after patch it's a shame these areas get so little attention. There is so much scope for diversity it's a shame it's all going to waste. Industrial wise we have the frigates and dreads, it's also a shame it took so long for freighters and more so they were grotesqurly overdone imho, many people haul, but not everyone has 1 bil + to spend. for a simple comparative idea, I think the following would be kinda cool. frig - current indy destroyer - Current tech 2 indy cruiser - tier 3 indy more armour points and hull 50K cargo space med turret slots for deffence bc's - Tier 4 indy Med turret slots yet more armour/hull/shields armour/shield resistances per level depending on race 100K cargo space Bs's - Tier 5 indy increase in hull/armour shields High turret slots 250K cargo space Not sure about slots, cpu, power as I know very little about balancing and such. They should do a similar thing with mining barges too :) As for pricing, they should be in line with the highest priced ship of that range as us manufacturer types have sooo much cash
Eleth Ranc	Posted - 2005.10.16 19:16:00 - [50] My thought on this ship idea, I think perhaps these 'light freighters' or 'cargo freights' whatever you want to call them should generally have no high slots, 1 med slot (or possibly 2 for caldari) and 1-3 low slots, depending on race. Make them a little faster than frieghters, and also at the same time the module slots would allow them to equip a few cargo exanders, or nanofibers, and also a single med slot, say an afterburner. I think they should have the same can access limiations as frieghters, and since they also have no high slots, they would be useless to miners. They would use battle ship (possibly capital) size modules. I am not a trader myself, but I would definately like to see this sort of thing be put into developement.
sonofollo	Posted - 2005.10.17 10:02:00 - [51] in addition to that id like to see industrials (ones that exist) get specific implants that if u are flying them u get a 5% and a 10% boost to cargo capacity when flying industrials only - manufacutring agents could give them out perhaps in the 20000-40000 LP range. Add another element to the agent offers
Caeden Nicomachean	Posted - 2005.10.17 12:49:00 - [52] Lots of positive responses....
Dhejay Centrix	Posted - 2005.10.17 13:17:00 - [53] Yes... There is at the moment a massive gap between even transport ships and freighters. An Occator with tonnes of expensive expanders has a: nowhere near the cargo capacity of a freighter and b: is very very slow, in fact it's so slow you need MWD just to get anywhere. That said I do understand that t2 haulers are there for doing POS stuff and low sec runs etc which does indeed leave a big hole waiting to be filled by a new "Heavy Industrial" or "light freighter" class of ship. I agree you should need trade skills to own one, as well as racial industrial lvl 5 and spaceship command IV, high navigation skill level and a reasonably high price tag. There is a definate need for something between indies and freighters... At the very least, give us a t2 Iteron V with 10 low slots and no velocity modifier.... (always worth a try)
Brolly	Posted - 2005.10.17 13:20:00 - [54] Originally by: sonofollo in addition to that id like to see industrials (ones that exist) get specific implants that if u are flying them u get a 5% and a 10% boost to cargo capacity when flying industrials only - manufacutring agents could give them out perhaps in the 20000-40000 LP range. Add another element to the agent offers What you could use here is use an aspect of the game which already exists:- Planck generators. As everyone knows, planck generators are used in secure cans and jetison cans for that tardis-like storage. You could also kill 2 birds with one stone, as it were by using a 'planck specialist' skill to boost the cargo space of ships and anchorable cans. Hopefully with the increase of space within secure cans it will prevent jet can mining, ore looting, cut down on cans around belts; thus leading to less of a server load and generally make everyone a tad bit happier.
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.10.17 14:00:00 - [55] Originally by: Dhejay Centrix Yes... There is at the moment a massive gap between even transport ships and freighters. An Occator with tonnes of expensive expanders has a: nowhere near the cargo capacity of a freighter and b: is very very slow does indeed leave a big hole waiting to be filled by a new "Heavy Industrial" or "light freighter" class of ship. Freighters as currently deployed serve a differerent role than conventional haulers and should not be compared to them. Dont compare apples and oranges. Haulers work GREAT within systems for doing thier tasks, freighters do not. Haulers can resonably defend themselves, freighters cannot. Haulers can be configured to suit the task at hand, freighters cannot. Freighters are FREAKIN huge, Haulers are not. Freighters are slow as crap, Haulers are not. Guys these are two different platforms for players to use. Each has their niche and should IMHO be kept distinctly separate in their functions in the game. IMHO the haulers move the roid fields to base, the freighters move your materials to market. Unless you have a high value per m3 cargo (such as minerals or loot) then the freighter is your beast. They gave us 3 ore barges, 2 useful one is a joke. They gave us T1 and T2 haulers and if used right work great. They gave us ONE freighter that is an economic beast to own, they should give us a mini-me freighter to compliment such a ship. If not for anything else than just to see them blown up doing ice block hauls to POSs. I doubt our pleas will work if we want a 100k m3 hauler rather than a 200k m3 mini freighter, they seem to have an agenda and development focus, might as well appeal to that, than plea for something else. TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
Eleth Ranc	Posted - 2005.10.18 02:15:00 - [56] Edited by: Eleth Ranc on 18/10/2005 02:23:15 Well I agree with most of that in principle there, though a freighter-hauler hybrid would be interesting what we really need is a low end freighter, not a high end hauler. So yeah I'm definately for a ship which is basically exactly like the freighter, just smaller and perhaps a little bit faster. 150-200km^3 should be appropriate. While I might want for it to have a few low slots, it would ultimately be better to keep it none just like the freighter. But again, definately an idea I'd like to see, also came up with another couple possible names for the type of ship: "Freight Trader", "Freight Courier", "Merchant Freighter", "Cargo Freighter", or possibly even "Caravan" (which would be a refference to medieval-renessance caravan wagons, often used by gypsies, tinkers, and merchant traders) what do you think?
Derron Bel	Posted - 2005.10.18 07:02:00 - [57] Anything in between the two would end up replacing either one or the other in large part. -==- Holy-Jim> as you know, surprise is the key to victory.....surprise! LooseCannoN> ahh! LooseCannoN> my plans have been foiled!
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.10.18 18:18:00 - [58] Originally by: Derron Bel Anything in between the two would end up replacing either one or the other in large part. As long as NO SLOTS, NO JET CAN USE and crappy AU/s speed then the mini freighter wouldnt be able to ever overlap on the T2 and T1 hauler niche. They just dont get used for the same thing. IMHO - Free Trader for the win, make it a Freighter with a smaller appetite and ur all set. , TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.
SentryRaven	Posted - 2005.10.18 20:46:00 - [59] Originally by: TotensBurntCorpse IMHO - Free Trader for the win, make it a Freighter with a smaller appetite and ur all set. /agreed
TotensBurntCorpse	Posted - 2005.10.18 22:21:00 - [60] so who do we have to bug to get this to the next level ? or is about 100+ postings needed before the devs give it a look ? TotensBurntCorpse Likes EVE, Starfleet Command Series, Earth & Beyond, Anything Battlefield, MOHAA, Call of Duty. Dislikes Not much.

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