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[SHIP] SMALL FREIGHTER

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Zepharim Caldari White Dagger	Posted - 2008.01.06 04:04:00 - [541] Have you come up with an idea for the price of these things? And the volume of cargo? It should be at least 200m in regards to price, so as not to make industrials obsolete. Maybe they should require spaceship command V as well as racial Industrial Ship V, and also Industry V. Perhaps more? I didn't read through the whole thread, but I do actually like the idea. You should make a summary of what you've come up with so far.
Zaphroid Eulthran Minmatar Imperial Visions	Posted - 2008.01.10 16:03:00 - [542] Originally by: Zepharim Edited by: Zepharim on 06/01/2008 04:16:57 It should be at least 200m in regards to price, so as not to make industrials obsolete. Maybe they should require spaceship command V as well as racial Industrial Ship V, and also Industry V. Perhaps more? I didn't read through the whole thread, but I do actually like the idea. You should make a summary of what you've come up with so far. As one of the posters said, a fully tripped out Itty 5 can hit over 45k cargo, at a cost of 150-250mil? So anything above that, should be quite a bit more pricey. If it's able to fit expanders, then a 30000m3 cargo hauler should start at 200mil, as even with basic cargo expanders, it'll quickly hit the capacity of that expensive tripped out itty 5. Yes 250 - 300 Million ISK is about the region we are looking for, less than 1/4 the price of a freighter, but the base line capacity of this ship will easily outstrip a max fitted Itty V. This should be a small freighter rather than a very large hauler. So I would be expecting 100-200K m3 of cargo but no fitting or rig slots. The main issue this ship is dealing with is cargos that arent big enough to be worth a freighters involvement and as a cheaper alternative for industrialists and haulers who cannot afford to throw 1 Billion ISK at a capital class ship. I want to avoid having the freighter skill associated with it as well, if you make it a tier 3 or 4 transport ship you hit the T2 problem and the price skyrockets, the best alternative is either a racial heavy hauler class, or a speciality ship class that is not tied to any particular race, Thukker transporter? Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys
Reangorette Bianie	Posted - 2008.01.14 17:56:00 - [543] The devs care about hi sec? Let me see, POS, titans, carriers, doomsday devices, bombs, and next (drum roll) "station killers" (a la Star Treck (planet killer).) Really now. "Bigger is better." Fleet wars (if I am to believe the posts) of 700 or so ships that crash the nodes when Jita crashes at 1000 with out all those pretty graphics (wonder if a Jita node could carry 300 fighters in low sec).) Anyone consider why there is a Jita? Only because it is convenient for 0.0 to drop off all their junk to sell in hi sec. Why were freighters allowed into hi sec? Same reason.... to make it convenient for the monopolists of 0.0 to be able to fund their wars. Hi sec is the stepchild of EVE. This obviously mundane issue is beneath the "Gods of Thor."
Alz Shado Ever Flow Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:48:00 - [544] I've probably commented already on this thread, so consider this a bump. Please give us the midsize cargo ship! Jump freighters are uber expensive, too slow, and completely useless for many tasks. Especially with the compression "nerf" that's made transporting loot even short distances a nightmare.
Mr Riis	Posted - 2008.01.17 11:10:00 - [545] /signed - I am a new player (relatively) and I have recently been running goods in low sec/ o.o, which have been quite fun. But now I seem to have outgrown my freighter and I spent a lot of time looking around scratching my head since I could not find a "mid-level" freighter. Its simply missing. Perhaps its because devs fear that a freighter with 50.000m3 of cargo space would cause problems in relation to NPC-goods? /Riis
xavier69	Posted - 2008.01.17 14:32:00 - [546] Edited by: xavier69 on 17/01/2008 14:34:46 /Signed I run med pos with 5-6 friends in empire, and have trained up a freighter, bought the skill and everything so I could haul the darn fuel that takes up loads of space. I am having a hard time justifying 975M to 1 billion isk to haul 2-3 months of fuel in one trip. The amount of time it will take to recoup the cost is nearly 6 months vs. the tedious amounts of trips I will have to take 20 jumps away to fuel the pos. Its almost doesnÆt make business sense but is an option to have less wasted time in eve. A mid range freighter would be perfect. Not everyone needs 975,000 M3 200k would do me fine and would let me do 1-2 months per trip. X
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.01.17 14:44:00 - [547] Originally by: Mr Riis /signed - I am a new player (relatively) and I have recently been running goods in low sec/ o.o, which have been quite fun. But now I seem to have outgrown my freighter and I spent a lot of time looking around scratching my head since I could not find a "mid-level" freighter. Its simply missing. Perhaps its because devs fear that a freighter with 50.000m3 of cargo space would cause problems in relation to NPC-goods? /Riis You can move 50k m3 in Iteron 5 btw.
Zaphroid Eulthran Minmatar Imperial Visions	Posted - 2008.01.18 18:27:00 - [548] Originally by: Darth Felin You can move 50k m3 in Iteron 5 btw. 41,847.78m3 actually with 5x T2 extenders, 2x T2 and 1x T1 cargo rig 13 cans will give you 53.5K m3 but thats not usable in a single block. But then T2 rigs defeat the object, as they are 400mil average each in heimatar atm, (although only ones above 550mil are on the market) Making this fully tricked out Itty 5 more expencive than a freighter in rigs alone. Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys
Veng3ance Prophets Of a Damned Universe Elemental Fury	Posted - 2008.01.19 06:42:00 - [549] Edited by: Veng3ance on 19/01/2008 06:42:25 Ummm, this is a great idea. But I think it should at least require T2 class ship training.
Zaphroid Eulthran Minmatar Imperial Visions	Posted - 2008.01.22 17:39:00 - [550] Originally by: Veng3ance Edited by: Veng3ance on 19/01/2008 06:42:25 Ummm, this is a great idea. But I think it should at least require T2 class ship training. While I agree with the need for a decent level of skill in order to fly this ship, slapping T2 on it isnt the best way as you then have to have the ship T2 to match its skillset, and T2 ships (especially the new non-BPO ones) are always stupidly expencive. But I would suggest a long set of T1 level skills. Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys

Max Essen Gallente Serenity Engineering and Transport Company deadspace society	Posted - 2008.01.25 19:23:00 - [551] As a miner and hauler I must agree with a lot that has been said here. I've got an Iteron V rigged to pick up well over a JetCan at a time when I mine. And I have a Freighter for rally big movements. The mid-sized freighter I was hoping for was the Jump-Freighter but it is still priced through the roof. Hmmm ... perhaps a Jump-Freighter without the Jump part is the solution? Real Men Structure-Tank
Remko Marr Caldari First And Only	Posted - 2008.01.25 22:12:00 - [552] Edited by: Remko Marr on 25/01/2008 22:12:21 Originally by: CCP CCP and EVE are growing, we're surrounded by creative opinons. But, we'd still love to hear from you. If we don't, we might put all the features on Post-its and throw darts at them, so now is the perfect time to lobby for your favorite feature request in the Features and Ideas forum. Well, here's my lobby, CCP. We want mini-freighters! Jump Freighters aren't the solution, we need something that's cost-effective. You've seen there's tons of support for it, so please consider it!
Lanfear Aiel Minmatar Nordic Endeavour	Posted - 2008.01.27 09:59:00 - [553] I r wanting this prodakt. Come on, we need something in between.
Shurikane	Posted - 2008.01.28 14:20:00 - [554] /signed Moving ore between a POS and a station for refining is an Olympic-sized PITA even with a fully rigged and pimped out Transport Ship. Takes me over two hours to move my loads and that is far from my definition of fun...
Taris Gedar Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.01.29 11:40:00 - [555] Got a suggestion out of a different thread (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=693235: Originally by: Taris Gedar I like the containership idea. A small freighter needs to have something around 120k m¦ worth of cargo to fill the niche between the industrial and a normal freighter. Let's have a "carrier" (no ..NOT a capital, but i guess Spaceship Command V should be requirement), which is basically just the ship itself (like a empty transport truck) with no cargocapacity. The clue is, that it is able to carry one General Freight Container ..just that. The ship is able to drop the Container anywhere in space and pick it up, but you can not take anything out of it or put anything into it while in space unless you have a POS somewhere with a corporate hangar or you dock to a station. Ok, the ship isn't anything for mining, but we have already enough good haulerships for mining ops (and i know that first hand ) What ya think? on a sidenote ..i like to have it the way like real container trucks: you can see if the ship got a container on its back or not. Like i said - it has no cargohold itself ..maybe you can open the cargo window close to a corphangar or in a station to move it, but in space you can just jettison or scoop it.
Zaphroid Eulthran Minmatar Imperial Visions	Posted - 2008.01.30 18:10:00 - [556] Originally by: Taris Gedar Got a suggestion out of a different thread (http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=693235: Hmm that would work too, 120m3 i believe is the capacity of a general freight container coincidentally also the size of the largest courrier contracts. Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys
Augeas	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:20:00 - [557] Not signed. Easier bulk transport of materials just favours the movement of goods to and from One Big Hub - Jita.
Shurikane	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:36:00 - [558] Originally by: Augeas Easier bulk transport of materials just favours the movement of goods to and from One Big Hub - Jita. Elaborate.
Augeas	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:55:00 - [559] Imagine a pilot has a huge stash of trit to sell. Or T2 Passive Targeters, whatever. He doesn't have a freighter and doesn't want to make a courier contract, so he cannot easily move it the ten jumps (or whatever) to Jita. Instead, he decides to put the trit up for sale in situ. This is "good" for Eve, since more materiel is available outside Jita, and Jita lag is reduced (very slightly!), by virtue of his absence (and, indirectly, the absence of anyone who buys his items and hence doesn't go to Jita). However, it is "bad" for our pilot. By selling at a lesser hub - or no hub at all - he will almost certainly have to wait longer to offload the items. He may make more ISK - a result of lesser competition - but delay in income is its own cost. Consequently, our pilot would normally want to move his items to the hub. He may not have the skills/ISK for a freighter - but what happens if he has the skills/ISK for a subfreighter? Typically, he will end up in Jita.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.01.30 20:59:00 - [560] Originally by: Augeas Easier bulk transport of materials just favours the movement of goods to and from One Big Hub - Jita. I would actually predict the opposite. Being able to transport blocks of finished goods (say, a run of HACs or AFs) over a longer distance would encourage manufacturers to go a few more jumps pasted Jita to hubs in other regions. If you have to make 10 round trips then one is going to minimize the route and just dump everything in the simplest place, i.e. Jita

Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.01.30 21:03:00 - [561] Something I find amusing in this discussion. You have people upbringing's up concerns that a mid-sized ship between indy and freighter would make 'XYZ' too easy, but you don't hear 'well, battle-cruisers are between frigates and motherships and that just makes combat too easy!' yes, a mid-sided 'move stuff' ship WILL make some activities easier and will shift the game around a little. That is the entire IDEA behind suggesting it. If everything stayed exactly the same there would be no demand for the ship and no reason to discuss it.
Augeas	Posted - 2008.01.30 21:17:00 - [562] Quote: I would actually predict the opposite. Being able to transport blocks of finished goods (say, a run of HACs or AFs) over a longer distance would encourage manufacturers to go a few more jumps pasted Jita to hubs in other regions. If this were realistic, then the manufacturer would have built those items closer to those minor hubs. If, of course, he could find the minerals nearby - they may have just been moved to Jita instead. Quote: You have people upbringing's up concerns that a mid-sized ship between indy and freighter would make 'XYZ' too easy, but you don't hear 'well, battle-cruisers are between frigates and motherships and that just makes combat too easy!' I don't think this comparison works. BCs are "good" because they increase the diversity of ships in combat. I'm worried that a midsize hauler would be "bad" because they'd reduce the diversity of the market, by favouring hauling to a hub. Quote: yes, a mid-sided 'move stuff' ship WILL make some activities easier and will shift the game around a little. That is the entire IDEA behind suggesting it. If everything stayed exactly the same there would be no demand for the ship and no reason to discuss it. I understand why people want such a ship. I had to spend a month and a billion ISK on a freighter, because an indie didn't have sufficient cargo capacity for my needs. I just think that, even though everyone may want such a ship, that's not necessarily a good thing for the Eve economy. And servers.
Nekopyat	Posted - 2008.01.30 21:43:00 - [563] Originally by: Augeas If this were realistic, then the manufacturer would have built those items closer to those minor hubs. If, of course, he could find the minerals nearby - they may have just been moved to Jita instead. Depends on where they have their infrastructure. 0.0 space has all the materials to make things (even though true, most trit is mined in high-sec). If that is where a corp has their POS with all of it's labs and such then I could see them building their stuff there. Quote: I don't think this comparison works. BCs are "good" because they increase the diversity of ships in combat. I'm worried that a midsize hauler would be "bad" because they'd reduce the diversity of the market, by favouring hauling to a hub. And this would increase he diversity of cargo ships (though specialized haulers like ore-only or packaged-ships only would be even better) Quote: I understand why people want such a ship. I had to spend a month and a billion ISK on a freighter, because an indie didn't have sufficient cargo capacity for my needs. I just think that, even though everyone may want such a ship, that's not necessarily a good thing for the Eve economy. And servers. In other words, you already have something better ^_~ Your arguments apply just as much to freighters only more so. The only real difference would be barrier to entry. Freighters are fairly exclusive ship, not many people have access to the resources to fly one and many are not willing to put forward the resources for such overkill. I think in the long term this could really open up market diversity by making it easier for small corps or solo people to move around their goods. Right now you have cheap local haulers (easily usable) and expensive long range haulers that are only available to a few. A mid-range ship could go a long way twords small-time builders spreading around their goods. For example. Say I want to build cruisers. 10,000m3 each. I build a run of 10 and sell them. With the current system a big corp would use a friegther to transport the entire run to Jita and leave them there. Since freighters are such a pain in the butt to fly they really don't want to go much further. A smaller corp might have a high-end indy but still only be able to move 1 (maybe 2) packaged cruisers.. so they generally won't bother moving them and just sell the lot at the station they built them in. Now, enter a mid-range ship with ~100,000m3 of storage. Load up the entire 10 cruiser run and plot a course of maybe 10 jumps round trip across 2-4 regions. Drop off a couple cruisers in stations in each region (so they show up in local buy) and loop back. Less need for a hub and the goods get spread out.
Shurikane	Posted - 2008.01.31 14:33:00 - [564] If your sole argument for saying no to a ship class is a system among the thousands available in the game, then here is my personal suggestion: Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. Stop going to Jita. And... Stop going to Jita. The world doesn't revolve around this damned system. If people want to throw themselves into the lagfest, then hey, go right ahead, whatever makes you happy. Meanwhile, I've ran missions, mined, fought here and there and amassed a small fortune. Did I ever go to Jita? No. Not even once. If Jita is the hammer argument to every discussion, then I might as well apply it to everything that ever existed, we'd be in 2008 and the cruiser would be the biggest ship in the whole game. No. Doesn't work that way. Look at the problematic beyond a single meatgrinder system. I don't care if it makes people lag out or drop connection. To those who jump into Jita and then complain, I say tough **** and remind me never to play Battlefield with you. I have no use for people who walk straight into a reputed problem and then wonder why something's going wrong around them.
Salpad	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:54:00 - [565] Why not beef up t2 haulers instead? Currently, I'm unable to understand why I should learn the skillz for a t2 hauler, when my Iteron V can haul 95% as much as the most pimped t2 hauler in existence. Why not give t2 haulers one extra LOW slot, and a higher base cargo capacity, and a greater level-derived cargo multiplier? That could easily double their cargo capacity (assuming the pilot goes for t2 cargo expanders, and has level 5 in the relevant skill), relative to what it is now, and thus give me a reason to abandon my Iteron V. Of course, I'm all for a Small Freighter, able to carry perhaps 150k m3 or so (20% of a Freighter's load, 300% of a pimped hauler's load). But if CCP won't do that, then why not beef up t2 haulers? Give high-sec pilots a reason for using them. -- Salpad
DasNara Aethelwulf Blackwater Syndicate VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.11 04:23:00 - [566] I'm not going to read every page on this, so forgive if suggested, I really dont need a 150K frieghter, what I WOULD like is a small 1K to 2K m3 FAST freighter...think Millennium Falcon, something that I could run passengers, skill books, tobacco that sort of thing past these cursed gate camps. My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916
Knoppaz Rens Nursing Home	Posted - 2008.02.11 09:32:00 - [567] Originally by: DasNara Aethelwulf I'm not going to read every page on this, so forgive if suggested, I really dont need a 150K frieghter, what I WOULD like is a small 1K to 2K m3 FAST freighter...think Millennium Falcon, something that I could run passengers, skill books, tobacco that sort of thing past these cursed gate camps. Use a Prowler.. Built-in Stab, 4000 cargo, goes 9AU/sec. and with 2 Nanos and 2 Inertia Rigs this thing needs 3 seconds to warp..
Vantlor Gallente Scrap Iron Flotilla Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2008.02.11 10:16:00 - [568] Great idea SentryRaven! I really hope this happens!
Darth Felin	Posted - 2008.02.11 14:20:00 - [569] Imho it will be enough if CPP will change stupid double active tanking bonus of deep space transports to one passive bonus + 5% cargo per transport ship level bonus.
Tak Ho	Posted - 2008.02.11 19:13:00 - [570] signed



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