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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 25 post(s) |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
5755
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Posted - 2015.06.02 09:57:42 -
[1] - Quote
Carnyx has been successfully deployed on June 2 during an extended downtime.
Carnyx brings many new features to EVE Online, including fully revamped icons in space and in the overview, the first set of sovereignty changes, fantastic new graphic shaders, module rebalances, the Caldari Tech-3 destroyer "Jackdaw" and more.
You can check out details of all these features on the new Updates webpage, here. The full details of all changes and improvements are available in the patch notes.
For general discussion and feedback regarding Carnyx, please use this thread.
Please report issues with the release on the PC in the Carnyx issues thread. For Mac users, there is, as always, a thread on the Macintosh forums for discussion of this release here.
CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer - Volunteer Manager
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John WarpingSlow
WoHo Academy WO'S HO'S
29
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:43:52 -
[2] - Quote
The overview icons... Oh god.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
667
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:45:27 -
[3] - Quote
first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful. |
MONTYJOHN
PIECE OF EIGHT
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:47:33 -
[4] - Quote
possible client login issues, game exec file goes unresponsive and will not open once launched even in safe mode.
vista x64 |
Sir Livingston
Club Deadspace
338
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:47:57 -
[5] - Quote
op success
EVE Online videos to inform and inspire
http://www.youtube.com/JonnyPew
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Itsani
HC - Yet Another Random Team
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:49:42 -
[6] - Quote
Client not starting either. Crash on launch after about 3 minutes background loading. Win 8.
EDIT : It worked after a few tries a now works all the time. Server side issue maybe ? |
vampire Huunuras
Dutch East Querious Company Phoebe Freeport Republic
6
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:50:13 -
[7] - Quote
CCP, where is our alliance logo ? :(
[DEQC] Become content
http://i.imgur.com/IfcOCoj.jpg
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Hassan Al-Fassir
NERV Reborn Independent Stars Allied Forces
2
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:52:37 -
[8] - Quote
vampire Huunuras wrote:CCP, where is our alliance logo ? :(
Same :/ |
Baylock MadBull Ovaert
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:53:33 -
[9] - Quote
Will not patch
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Dane Tesla
MARVEL.
3
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful.
I think they are just fine, especially the drone icons, they look like miniature 'space invaders', lolz |
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Tol Sivron
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:56:04 -
[11] - Quote
The first time I opened the client the update COMPLETELY messed up the game screen resolution. It seems fine now, but I will need a lot of time to get used to new logos. I am thinking about protesting in-game.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
667
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:56:53 -
[12] - Quote
Dane Tesla wrote:Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful. I think they are just fine, especially the drone icons, they look like miniature 'space invaders', lolz
red rat icons when flashy just look the same blurred mess. |
Dixie Mason
ZERO TAX MERCS
11
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Posted - 2015.06.02 12:59:09 -
[13] - Quote
YES CCP you did it. With all the hype about Fozzie SOV you managed to include new awful icons diminishing any good about this release. |
Tol Sivron
Aliastra Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:00:04 -
[14] - Quote
My total complaints so far:
Icons terrible;
capsule design a graphical reversion;
loading times slower;
glitches more (even though that might be normal)
THIS WAS NOT A GOOD PATCH |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
783
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:00:32 -
[15] - Quote
The new overview icons are really bad at 90% UI scaling. |
Celeste Esuna
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:03:23 -
[16] - Quote
My camera seems to no longer be centred and is instead offset to the right. No shortcuts or resetting tracking position will revert it to how it was pre-patch, I'm assuming this isn't intended behaviour. |
Kaivar Lancer
Little Rat Company
602
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:05:09 -
[17] - Quote
Can't launch the game... using Windows 8... im dying |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1468
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:05:58 -
[18] - Quote
Khanid Ship previews (T2 ships) in the Info window look barely any different from Carthum Conglomerate ships. There's no real difference between a Malediction and a Crusader in terms of color anymore, they are both golden in the small preview. That's confusing.
Pocos are not listed directly under the planet in a planet object stack anymore, but somewhere below moons. That's illogical as the poco is the closest object to a planet to begin with and the state should be reverted back so that order is again Planet > Pocos > Stations > rest of the objects.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Chuck Athonille
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:06:01 -
[19] - Quote
Hi,
i have a problem to login into eve.
the laucher (v.2.2.878305) does not download and install the new patch. Just displays the gray "play" button without any progress on the buttom. The network monitor and system monitor tells me, that the launcher will not do anything.
I tried also the repair tool. But this crashed with the error message, to visit a error log file:
Traceback (most recent call last): File "splunk.pyo", line 75, in emit File "requests\sessions.pyo", line 504, in post File "requests\sessions.pyo", line 461, in request File "requests\sessions.pyo", line 573, in send File "requests\adapters.pyo", line 431, in send SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed Logged from file repair.py, line 196 Traceback (most recent call last): File "repair.py", line 246, in module File "updateSelf.pyo", line 87, in UpdateSelf_nt File "updateSelf.pyo", line 16, in ReadUpdateInfo File "repairTool\repairTools.pyo", line 190, in GetRepairInfo File "requests\api.pyo", line 65, in get File "requests\api.pyo", line 49, in request File "requests\sessions.pyo", line 461, in request File "requests\sessions.pyo", line 573, in send File "requests\adapters.pyo", line 431, in send requests.exceptions.SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
what now?
Regards, Andreas Wegmann
Solution found:
That may work:
https://ccpcommunity.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203183482 |
Leliana Cami Cotte
Daylight's Burning
6
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:07:47 -
[20] - Quote
Celeste Esuna wrote:My camera seems to no longer be centred and is instead offset to the right.
Change your resolution down a notch or two and then change it back.
Lookie, I found where to edit my Signature!
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Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
51
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:08:12 -
[21] - Quote
Oh god... What did you do to the Caracal?!
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
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Jessica Keyes
Phoenix Rising Fleet Dirt Nap Squad.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:09:15 -
[22] - Quote
Please reverse the overview icons. |
Nami Miyasaki
Capital Fusion. Circle-Of-Two
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:09:34 -
[23] - Quote
The icons are awesome!
Objectively good artistic work.
Only reason why people dont like them is because they havent become used to associate the icons yet. |
Idame Isqua
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:09:40 -
[24] - Quote
Would you know my name If I saw you in heaven? Would it be the same If I saw you in heaven?
I must be strong And carry on 'Cause I know I don't belong Here in heaven
Would you hold my hand If I saw you in heaven? Would you help me stand If I saw you in heaven?
I'll find my way Through night and day 'Cause I know I just can't stay Here in heaven
Time can bring you down Time can bend your knees Time can break your heart Have you begging please Begging please
Beyond the door There's peace, I'm sure And I know there'll be no more Tears in heaven
Would you know my name If I saw you in heaven? Would it be the same If I saw you in heaven?
I must be strong And carry on 'Cause I know I don't belong Here in heaven
'Cause I know I don't belong Here in heaven |
Carneros
Ancient Hittite Corporation The Bastion
18
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:10:49 -
[25] - Quote
Can we get a status update on alliance logos?
Thanks. |
Leliana Cami Cotte
Daylight's Burning
6
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:13:31 -
[26] - Quote
Chuck Athonille wrote: SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed Logged from file repair.py, line 196 requests.exceptions.SSLError: [Errno 1] _ssl.c:504: error:14090086:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_SERVER_CERTIFICATE:certificate verify failed
A quick search should have shown you a number of threads covering this already.
They should all point you here: http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/update-using-repair-tool-may-fail/
Lookie, I found where to edit my Signature!
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Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
166
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:15:09 -
[27] - Quote
Oh video games gods of the frozen north, why did you change the icons to be so terribad ?
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1468
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:16:05 -
[28] - Quote
Triangles as ship icons are bad. Really bad. And now I need to check twice to differentiate between an Iteron and an Oneiros on grid as their icons are very similar.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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HurrpaDurp Chelien
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
3
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:16:24 -
[29] - Quote
One of the shuttles does not have the new icon, the caldari story/faction one |
Xen Solarus
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
875
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:17:19 -
[30] - Quote
So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP!
Some sort of run down of what symbol means what would be nice!
My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution??
Post with your main, like a BOSS!
And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
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Cpt Buckshot
The Awakened Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:18:09 -
[31] - Quote
Will Update After Playing Today ********** |
Outlaws Star
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:18:22 -
[32] - Quote
How big is this update in mb's please. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
670
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:19:35 -
[33] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution??
what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
670
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:20:49 -
[34] - Quote
Outlaws Star wrote:How big is this update in mb's please.
mine said 2GB on launcher. |
CaCi-A 001Me
State War Academy Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:21:05 -
[35] - Quote
the new overview icons are just GOD DAMN AWFUL. there is no other word for it - completely and utterly awful!
they are in fact worse than nothing... they look like the hotels from Monopoly, ghost from Pac-Man or the ships from Space Invader.
PLEASE UNDO and give us the first ISIS ship icons instead!
i don't play real life, the balancing sucks!
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Wayne Caderu
Disciples of Aphrodite
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:21:12 -
[36] - Quote
I think I might be jumped in a dark alley for what I'm about to say but...... The update is great guys, icons are good at 90%, and caracal looks likes great. Has a very angular design which I like.
9/10 would CCP again. |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:21:46 -
[37] - Quote
I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41496&find=unread
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
134
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:22:12 -
[38] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad.
We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
784
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:22:49 -
[39] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? I'm not having that problem, so I would assume it's fixable. |
HindSight Pergatory
Blackstone Holdings Sev3rance
16
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:22:57 -
[40] - Quote
SOV changes moved me out of Null Sec. thanks alot.
Love content... hate being railroaded
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
784
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:24:06 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons. Glad to see you shipped it anyway. |
Sexual White Chocolate
People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:25:12 -
[42] - Quote
Can't even get the damn game to load, it's completely unplayable for me now. So once again CCP fixed **** that wasn't broken & only ended up breaking **** that didn't need to be fixed to begin with. As a result, I can't even get logged into the ******* game to see these new changes. Nice work CCP. |
Steel Messiah
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:25:19 -
[43] - Quote
Especially for the ship overview icons i would add some details like. 1 crossing line for a frigate 2 crossing lines for a cruiser 2 for BC .... and so on
plus a letter which describes the funtion like E for a e-war frigate or cruiser, B for black ops. C for commandship, C for covert ops frigate. This is where the lines differs because now we know ship hull and funtion.
So in space: look at the lines of the icon, read the letter and within a second you know what ship- hull and role it has :)
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J0rj Lmoz
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:25:48 -
[44] - Quote
The new textures have much more definition, well done CPP.
I can't see any anomalies or unidentified Wormhole in a system that has a Jove Observatory. [ |
Wilj0
21
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:26:02 -
[45] - Quote
Hi,
Despite people's complaints, the new overview icons are a step on the right direction. Being able to differentiate between ship types at a glance is key during a fight. And lets face it, the old square icons didn't have defining characteristics besides their size. And it wasn't as easy to determine what ship size it was if no other ships were around to compare their size to; and you still wouldn't know their role on top of that.
That being said... the icons are hard to identify with the UI scale at 90% as mentioned already. Maybe it would be nice to give us an overview row height setting we could adjust to increase font and icon size per row on the overview w/o having to scale our UI/resolution for every UI element?
Cheers, Wilj0 |
Xen Solarus
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
875
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:26:04 -
[46] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
Was at 100% UI with the problem. Tried shifting down to 90% and the problem still persists. I'm happy that you are aware of the problem, and will just wait for a solution.
Post with your main, like a BOSS!
And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
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Ludwig Von Fondue
Small Crazy Dogs
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:26:59 -
[47] - Quote
The patch DL freezes and then crashes the launcher. Running Win 8.
When pked does your life flash before your eyes? Or just that clone's life?
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Tol Sivron
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:27:48 -
[48] - Quote
javascript:insertsmiley('','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_sad.png')javascript:insertsmiley('','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_sad.png')javascript:insertsmiley('','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_sad.png')javascript:insertsmiley('','/Images/Emoticons/ccp_sad.png') - rating for new release. In other words, -4. "Thanks," CCP |
Skydott
Burnin plasma ball
28
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:27:49 -
[49] - Quote
CCP you broke drone assist in low sec! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OomlH1gFpIY after assist, drone do not shoot in neutral`s in low sec!!! |
Niraia
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
289
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:29:16 -
[50] - Quote
I don't know what all these new icons mean.
I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years.
Niraia
EVE Online Hold'Em
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Valon01
Duty. Circle-Of-Two
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:29:57 -
[51] - Quote
Please let us reverse the dam icons back just terrible. |
Dreamer Targaryen
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:30:05 -
[52] - Quote
Just wanted to say, that I like the new overview icons. That being said: where are the alliance logos? :/ |
Partsking
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
56
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:30:54 -
[53] - Quote
The stations look like ****. Do something with the **** rings. |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
3
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:31:29 -
[54] - Quote
Can we have a fallback to the old overview symbols?
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Sexual White Chocolate
People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:31:43 -
[55] - Quote
Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years.
You shouldn't, this is a completely unnecessary patch that could easily have been done without. |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
854
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:31:53 -
[56] - Quote
The we don't like the new icons seems like a rehash of the we dont like jump changes argument. A lot of hupla about nothing.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
12909
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:33:07 -
[57] - Quote
This has been the case long before Carnyx, and is by design. Drones will never take an action that causes their owner to get a crimewatch flag unless the owner explicitly instructs them to. Basically going flashy is cool, going flashy without any choice in the matter is not.
Game Designer | Team Five-0
https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie
http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/
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Blood Enslaver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:34:07 -
[58] - Quote
You people really are afraid of learning new things. |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
854
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:34:22 -
[59] - Quote
Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years.
So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Cephei Kells
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:34:37 -
[60] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:The we don't like the new icons seems like a rehash of the we dont like jump changes argument. A lot of hupla about nothing.
Can I just point out that you're an idiot. |
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Steijn
Quay Industries
670
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:35:21 -
[61] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:The we don't like the new icons seems like a rehash of the we dont like jump changes argument. A lot of hupla about nothing.
hardly a hupla about nothing when CCP have admitted there are issues with them. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
670
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:37:35 -
[62] - Quote
Blood Enslaver wrote:You people really are afraid of learning new things.
when more than 1 icon looks the same as another 1, how do you learn which is which? Please explain to me. |
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
854
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:38:22 -
[63] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Dradis Aulmais wrote:The we don't like the new icons seems like a rehash of the we dont like jump changes argument. A lot of hupla about nothing. hardly a hupla about nothing when CCP have admitted there are issues with them.
Issue is not with them its with the UI scaling
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
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Niraia
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
291
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:39:42 -
[64] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years. So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one.
Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Then you wouldn't exist.
Niraia
EVE Online Hold'Em
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HindSight Pergatory
Blackstone Holdings Sev3rance
17
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:39:57 -
[65] - Quote
Ludwig Von Fondue wrote:The patch DL freezes and then crashes the launcher. Running Win 8.
Windows 7 for the win.. Win 8 is horrible for everything |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1470
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:40:37 -
[66] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one. They should stop making changes to systems that work perfectly fine and concentrate their efforts on things that are broken. Neither the overview icons nor their recognizability were broken, in fact they were among the few systems that worked flawlessly in EVE.
Blood Enslaver wrote:You people really are afraid of learning new things. That is not the point. The point is that these icons are confusing, ambiguous, ornamental and partly hard to read. Not to mention that a Shuttle, as I just seen it on grid, has the same chevron of a civilian vessel, but a Rookie ship has a smaller chevron despite being a combat focused ship. Or the pod: It had a very distinguishable icon before, now it's a condensed industrial ship squaretriangle icon despite it not possessing any industrial capabilities. The old icons were perfectly clear: Small square: small ships; medium square: medium ship; big square: big ship; rectangular square: industrial ship. Now it is all in disarray.
(Edited with other examples as I mixed up overview rows with the previous examples)
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
854
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Posted - 2015.06.02 13:40:40 -
[67] - Quote
Niraia wrote:Dradis Aulmais wrote:Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years. So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one. Yes, that's exactly what I meant. Then you wouldn't exist.
Your more than welcome to block me you know.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
|
Dradis Aulmais
RW Vindicator Connection Phoebe Freeport Republic
854
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:43:01 -
[68] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Dradis Aulmais wrote:So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one. They should stop making changes to systems that work perfectly fine and concentrate their efforts on things that are broken. Neither the overview icons nor their recognizability were broken, in fact they were among the few systems that worked flawlessly in EVE.
Ok I can understand that.
I personally did not like the old icons. I found it hard to differentiate between drone types (finding the sentries v attack) ship classes during multi ship fights.i had to run down the name list and all that. I find the new icons useful for picking prioirty targets at a glance.
Dradis Aulmais, Federal Attorney Number 54896
Free The Scope Three
|
Kaivar Lancer
Little Rat Company
603
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:45:29 -
[69] - Quote
The new overview icons are pretty cool. Ignore the haters. |
Geljoran
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:46:21 -
[70] - Quote
Please change the overview icons back. Please.
They look too " 8 bit" / cartoony, don't fit the sleek feeling of the rest of the UI. And to be honest they are kinda distracting as they seem be brighter than the rest of the UI.
Good intentions but honestly I think you guys fell short of the quality product you put out on a regular basis. |
|
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:46:35 -
[71] - Quote
New brackets for ships, NPCs and drones are bad.
Ships come in a variety of messy shapes, while first and foremost they must be telling me it's a player ship. But no,
NPCs come in very same shapes, thus making it rather hard to tell PCs from NPCs at a glance.
In addition, drones come in a variety of messy shapes of their own (which look all alike) while not being important enough to deserve it. All I need to know it's a drone. More info on Drones tab in the overview.
When all three groups are present in a single PvP grid, things start to look messy. I cannot tell a Player from and NPCs from a drone from a wreck, because they look so much alike, with the tiny curves and dots that they are. The only way to get though is using mouse over tips and reading the overview which (suprise!) worked okay with old brackets.
It used to work like this: I see angle brackets (PCs), Red crosses (NPCs), slanted crosses (drones). At the very instant of looking at the icons I knew which group are they. If I care enough about any of them, I either mouse over them, or read the overview. This is not working anymore, because there's a dozen of different shapes in a single grid. What a mess!
Not talking about brackets for stationary objects (they are a mess, but much less relevant to me).
Frankly, these 'revamped' brackets are an utter fail. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:47:56 -
[72] - Quote
Let's see...
Getting rid of 50mm plates and micro shield extenders is good, further tiericide on those modules is good either. BUT. You should have named them Size - codename - fluff name - Armor Plates / Shield Extender. Next step to Sovereignty... I remain hopeful, let's see how it goes. This concludes the positive changes.
Negative changes and absences? ZERO improvements on opportunities, which are direly needed. ZERO improvements on starmap, which are direly needed.
Overview icons which are not optimized for all UI scales. Overview icons are now IDENTICAL to players and NPCs in shape.
You got a good amount of flak for the previous overview icon "attempts" of yours, and you didn't learn anything of it? Great, now the icons are "hollow" and you got a bit more abstracts into the triangle shapes. But the problem is, that there are too many things that still can be confused with existing overview icons.
So, you don't have any "bracket" and "cross" shaped icons any more? If that really is the case, then this is by all means THREE steps backwards while taking only one step forward. Yes, the ship icons needed an overhaul. No, the direction of the change was not good.
Making frigates now look like mobile depots is like the worst thing ever. |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:49:32 -
[73] - Quote
wtf happened guys? |
SanMiguel
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:49:57 -
[74] - Quote
Ather the patch my client crashed - did not respond anymore. I tried to repair, without success.
No I removed everything and am re-installing...
Fingers crossed it will work.... |
Hawke Nolen
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:50:45 -
[75] - Quote
Game now takes forever to load. In fact on second log in attempt, game hangs indefinitely after launching from the launcher or from exe file.
The little i got to see when i logged in initially - ship skins not loading for 90% of all ships. Overview icons look crappy
Did someone say Hot-fix!!!?? |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:52:29 -
[76] - Quote
I am an old Dinosaur so adapting to new things is always hard for me....but after just a few minutes pre patch i counted at least 5 different symbols for frig class vessels (and i wouldn't be suprised if there are more) in my opinion the new symbols just add unnecessary complexity to the overview. I mean there is a column named type and you can get all the needed information there. The old symbols are just plain and simple and that is what matters to me. |
Sexual White Chocolate
People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:52:34 -
[77] - Quote
Hawke Nolen wrote:Game now takes forever to load. In fact on second log in attempt, game hangs indefinitely after launching from the launcher or from exe file.
The little i got to see when i logged in initially - ship skins not loading for 90% of all ships. Overview icons look crappy
Did someone say Hot-fix!!!??
I'm having the same issue though I have yet to be able to get logged in at all even once. |
Tomjhak
Konstrukteure der Zukunft The Initiative.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:53:57 -
[78] - Quote
I dont post in forums here often, but this time I feel like I need to.
Those new overview icons don't help and make it only harder to play with.
The information if its BC oder C I am fightin with is worthless. I need to know which ship exactly I encounter. Thats mandatory to know my tactics, like shortrange, longrange f.e. Most of the times you got the shipinformation beforehand anyway with directional scan or scouts.
Another example. In Fleetfights there is no need to show the icon for carrier oder dread or titan. Maybe you didnt do much fleets, but there is no time to check icons. Every experienced player uses overview tabs to show the shiptypes he needs to see. So you just see icon A in Overview Tab A, Icon B in Overview Tab B and so on. There is no value in this change.
I could live with all that unnecessarities but whats really making me sad is the missing function to just deactivate new icons. That would be so easy and everyone could decide what he wants to use ! Gladly you did this with notifications. That helped a lot.
So please think about making it possible to deactivate the new icons !
best regards /tom |
Leliana Cami Cotte
Daylight's Burning
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:54:49 -
[79] - Quote
Sexual White Chocolate wrote:Hawke Nolen wrote:Game now takes forever to load. In fact on second log in attempt, game hangs indefinitely after launching from the launcher or from exe file.
The little i got to see when i logged in initially - ship skins not loading for 90% of all ships. Overview icons look crappy
Did someone say Hot-fix!!!?? I'm having the same issue though I have yet to be able to get logged in at all even once.
Getting in now finally. Ran exefile.exe directly and it sat there for a couple of minutes until I could get a login.
edit: It's now sitting on the "processing bulk data" panel....
reedit: 11 minutes later and it's still processing. Well so much for that....
Lookie, I found where to edit my Signature!
|
Huang Mo
Tianxia Inc
104
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:57:43 -
[80] - Quote
I like the new icons (you'll get used to them in a short while, if you disagree), but all Minmatar ship icons in hangar are now more pink than brown
|
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PSYPH0N
Protagonists Of Doom
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:58:01 -
[81] - Quote
Been reading these comments whilst downloading the update.
Originally I was thinking ah it's just people moaning about change.
But dear lord. What a mess.
I "kind of" see what they are trying to do, differentiate ship types on the UI.... but if I was marking this work I would have to say "good effort" 4/10.
Surely this could have been made so much better (or left as it was!).
Congratulations all, we now have a POETS overview.
Psy.
|
Arla Sarain
466
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 13:58:20 -
[82] - Quote
You must have thought it was the minority crying about the icons on SISI?
They are awful. |
Marseillefrog
Blueprint Mania
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:00:40 -
[83] - Quote
Lol @ the icon complainers. I mean the red crosses were just fantastic. |
Ereilian
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
89
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:00:42 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
Calling total BS on this piece of corp spin. The issue is YOUR Q+A process failed because you are in such a hurry to push out releases.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:01:55 -
[85] - Quote
Edit: nevermind, the loot distinction is still there, I just had to look twice if it actually changes. Really bad design choice. What is bad with "filled up" icons? Nothing. They were great.
Oh and I forgot to mention; there is no distinction between an empty or filled wreck any more. Are you serious, CCP? |
Melenos
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:03:06 -
[86] - Quote
Aside from the fact that targeted enemies look like the STOP Button from my old cassette Recorder, i'll have the following feedback:
I appriciate the attempt, but after flying some pve and pvp, i feel like it doesn't make much difference. There is more variation by now but it's not much use as i can't really tell the difference between the icons, especially since they seem rather random. The old ones where far more 'cleaner' and so easier to identify.
Thing is, if i can't differentiate a cruiser from a dread without going back to overview, what's the purpose of an overhaul at all?
If you go for new icons, you'll probably to have to increase size/resolution for them. I really have a hard time to seperate a wreck from and empty wreck. And that's coming from someone who Plays Wargame: Red Dragon with NATO symbols. |
Kalpel
KBM
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:04:31 -
[87] - Quote
1) Ships look great!
2) New overview icons are just awful! .....except the drone icons!
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online
|
PSYPH0N
Protagonists Of Doom
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:05:30 -
[88] - Quote
UI Modernization - Icon Strategy |
Alizee Reno
Corporate Tax Haven
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:06:17 -
[89] - Quote
These icons are AWFUL!
You let us use the old map because the new map is also AWFUL. Please let us use the old icons! |
Kalpel
KBM
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:08:03 -
[90] - Quote
indeed! ^^^
You failed to target nothing!-áGëívGëí online
|
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David Therman
University of Caille Gallente Federation
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:08:35 -
[91] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Oh and I forgot to mention; there is no distinction between an empty or filled wreck any more. Are you serious, CCP?
Well from what I could tell, empty wrecks are almost the same as before, except with a little indent at the top. Wrecks with loot in them are a lighter shade, and have a dot above the triangle... I can't say I'm a fan of the new brackets, mind; there's no need to fix something that doesn't need to be fixed.
On a sidenote, I love the look of the new Caracal! |
Kelleth Kirk
Angels with Artillery
161
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:09:43 -
[92] - Quote
So, is the dirt thing in the game? Do I have to go park my ship in an astroid field for a couple of hours to get it dirty? Or just invite some Minmatar onboard for a couple of minutes?
I don't trust any event where punching someone isn't an option.
Why don't you move out about 30 km. and stand still for me?
Dear CCP, please update the Hurricane hull with a visable Drone bay.
|
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
306
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:10:59 -
[93] - Quote
When will we ever see the new explosion animations show'd at fanfest put into the game? |
Sturmwolke
646
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:12:18 -
[94] - Quote
Spending >1hr surgically defragging the HDD mess you make in the resource cache. Shall I assume this is by (clever) design and the EVE installation shall continue to fragment itself into billions and billions of pieces happily ever after?
|
Ibrahim Vaughn Holtzman
the holtzman experience CAStabouts
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:13:05 -
[95] - Quote
Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful.
THIS.
|
Morukk Nuamzzar
Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:15:41 -
[96] - Quote
Love new icons Not perfect yet but still way better than the old one's. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:16:13 -
[97] - Quote
David Therman wrote:Well from what I could tell, empty wrecks are almost the same as before Please re-read my post, I've edited it before your posted this message c: |
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:17:45 -
[98] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Outlaws Star wrote:How big is this update in mb's please. mine said 2GB on launcher. Did you opt to download all the game resources? The required patch data was less than 50 MB for me. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
671
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:20:00 -
[99] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Steijn wrote:Outlaws Star wrote:How big is this update in mb's please. mine said 2GB on launcher. Did you opt to download all the game resources? The required patch data was less than 50 MB for me.
yea i have it set to do that. Was fairly quick tbh compared to the time it usually takes. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1470
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:23:28 -
[100] - Quote
Semi-positive feedback from my side on the Providence/Ark textures. The matte sandwhite base color on the Provi and the red base on the Ark don't make them look like cheap $Insertcheapplastictoymakercountrieshere$ plastic toys anymore. If only they weren't that dirty, then you'd get a full positive comment from me for the improvements.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
|
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1470
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:25:40 -
[101] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Steijn wrote:Outlaws Star wrote:How big is this update in mb's please. mine said 2GB on launcher. Did you opt to download all the game resources? The required patch data was less than 50 MB for me. yea i have it set to do that. Was fairly quick tbh compared to the time it usually takes. You probably had downloaded the Sisi changes before, like I did. When I first updated Sisi after Mosaic, it was about 2GB to dl.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Faruzen en Divalone
VentureCorp inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:28:04 -
[102] - Quote
No bugs so far, icons look great and are easy to understand. Nothing ground breaking for me in this release, but nothing bad either. I look forward to learning icons more, as they offer bonus information in a simple way. I know at once, if I can engage or disengage when someone warps on grid. Good job with them. Haters gonna hate though
P.S.: I look forward to the new ship explosions, please implement them ASAP, they looked EPIC at your teasers at Fanfest and have the potential to show the proportions of ship and their energy capacity, which is your concern after all
|
Ben Musana
Black Nano Ops
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:29:22 -
[103] - Quote
Update works but the icons from the Overview - omg - looks like old atari times and are more confusing then helping me ... |
Silen Talker
Hi Ho mining
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:33:19 -
[104] - Quote
Dane Tesla wrote:Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful. I think they are just fine, especially the drone icons, they look like miniature 'space invaders', lolz
Yes
Love the categorisation grouping style of ship icons, sure beats "big square ... little square".
|
Professor Frederick Johansen
Edge of Existence
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:33:32 -
[105] - Quote
First and foremost, i dont really care about the new icons, they are functional.
but why did you feel the overview icons needed changing? were they really that bad that they desperately needed to be changed ?
or did i miss the massive forum argument about how the icons are **** and need to be fixed... because i dont remember anybody complaining about them..
Seriously, there are so many actual gameplay issues that could use attention, but you waste time and resources fixing things that weren't broken in the first place...
Example: how come if i have the camera set to tracking mode, when i come out of the solar system map, the camera flies all over the place like it's drunk?
this has been happening for months, yet you don't fix it.
This is incarna all over again.. ignoring the problems in the game, and trying to polish it with crap that nobody asked for in the first place.
you can't polish a turd and call it a diamond, it is just a polished turd. |
Solumon Caar
Senex Legio The Old Contemptibles
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:35:28 -
[106] - Quote
"Download Updates" stuck at 100% 2.05G for 15-20 minutes now. |
Tomjhak
Konstrukteure der Zukunft The Initiative.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:39:01 -
[107] - Quote
An addition to the new icons.
We are playing a strategy game here right? And EVE player see theimselfs as a kind of pcgamingmasterrace or something. So CCP should treat the players accordingly. The new icons are way to playful and funny while they should be smart, efficient and minimalistic ! Compare the icons with icons from civil protection or military.
Maybe more like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/UCB_Geometric_Shapes.png
The icons have to be more lean than now. Now its just like fisher price toy phones or apple producty. Casual and playful.
|
Faruzen en Divalone
VentureCorp inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:41:38 -
[108] - Quote
Gallente shuttle camera centering is messed up, or maybe its the whole model, its shifted to the side and camera center is at the end of right wing of the shuttle, not in the middle of the ship itself. Other ships I looked at so far dont have this problem. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Chapters.
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:43:33 -
[109] - Quote
Professor Frederick Johansen wrote:First and foremost, i dont really care about the new icons, they are functional.
but why did you feel the overview icons needed changing? were they really that bad that they desperately needed to be changed ?
or did i miss the massive forum argument about how the icons are **** and need to be fixed... because i dont remember anybody complaining about them..
Seriously, there are so many actual gameplay issues that could use attention, but you waste time and resources fixing things that weren't broken in the first place...
Example: how come if i have the camera set to tracking mode, when i come out of the solar system map after scanning, the camera flies all over the place like it has a serious drinking problem?
this has been happening for months, yet you don't fix it.
This is incarna all over again.. ignoring the problems in the game, and trying to polish it with crap that nobody asked for in the first place.
you can't polish a turd and call it a diamond, it is just a polished turd.
With this tight release schedule they are not working only 5 weeks for one release. These icons have been in progress longer.
This means that there is lot of CCP staff fixing other areas of the game, while UI team tries to update this game to this year.
Also, when there is a lot of developers. Not all of them can fix all the problems. There is engine guys fixing engine problems. So, unless there is updates from that team that is supposed to fix your problem, don't complain that other teams added features! |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:47:15 -
[110] - Quote
I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. This will help tremendously with small gang operations, IMO.
Download and install of the patch went smoothly. Only 20-something MB with download-on-demand enabled. Haven't had a chance to really test functionality, though.
|
|
Nemesis DCC
Dead Crow Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:48:58 -
[111] - Quote
CCP, what are you doing? Oh god! This is terrible! SMH |
Faruzen en Divalone
VentureCorp inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:49:27 -
[112] - Quote
Tomjhak wrote:An addition to the new icons. We are playing a strategy game here right? And EVE player see theimselfs as a kind of pcgamingmasterrace or something. So CCP should treat the players accordingly. The new icons are way to playful and funny while they should be smart, efficient and minimalistic ! Compare the icons with icons from civil protection or military. Maybe more like this http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/UCB_Geometric_Shapes.png The icons have to be more lean than now. Now its just like fisher price toy phones or apple producty. Casual and playful.
I believe its still casual sci-fi game, not a hardcore military strategy simulator and I would like to keep it playful and casual. I have my own work in real life, I dont want another, I want to have fun in my free time. Not everyone is keen on hyperreallistic efficiency and minimalism. |
Hassan Al-Fassir
NERV Reborn Independent Stars Allied Forces
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:49:38 -
[113] - Quote
Still no word on Alliance Logo thingie? |
John WarpingSlow
WoHo Academy WO'S HO'S
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:57:47 -
[114] - Quote
Solumon Caar wrote:"Download Updates" stuck at 100% 2.05G for 15-20 minutes now.
Same thing happened to me.
What I did that worked: - Clicked "X" to close the launcher. (the 'waiting' cursor came up for a while.) - OS eventually gave me the "Application is not responding" dialog. I chose to close the application. (Launcher went away.) - Re-started the launcher - Watched it download the final 32 megabytes of the cached resources
Everything was fine at that point.
Seems like the launcher can't do anything without tripping over its shoelaces at least once. |
Captain Pada
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:58:09 -
[115] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/
These icons were much better. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
81
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:58:39 -
[116] - Quote
This thread seems a little dramatic; from the responses you would have thought the world was ending. I'm using the icons on 90% and it isn't that bad, as in I can perfectly discern one from another quite easily.
Also the new shaders are great, although one thing is there seems to be a delay in them appearing on the ship, so you are greeted with a black model initially when viewing them. |
Dj Urri
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 14:58:56 -
[117] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Blood Enslaver wrote:You people really are afraid of learning new things. when more than 1 icon looks the same as another 1, how do you learn which is which? Please explain to me.
Not to mention for people who dont have perfect vision.
I just undocked in Jita and this looks like 2 types of symbols... triangles and squares thats it and honestly i can not differentiate between anything else. (if there is anything else to it, i just cant see it).
ccp could you please just do a 2nd thinking before going with such rubbish ideas ? |
Braddock1
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:00:11 -
[118] - Quote
The New Overfew Icons are bad and confusing , Further more there is a problem with the drone damage bar it shows the shield Dmg on the second bar where the Armor dmg should be.
|
Big Lynx
1574
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:01:04 -
[119] - Quote
Overview Icons = eye bleed |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
81
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:01:28 -
[120] - Quote
Dj Urri wrote:Not to mention for people who dont have perfect vision.
I just undocked in Jita and this looks like 2 types of symbols... triangles and squares thats it and honestly i can not differentiate
And before we just had crosses, so now you have two symbols which is an improvement over before.. |
|
Faruzen en Divalone
VentureCorp inc
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:02:01 -
[121] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/UIModernization_Blog_Screenshot.jpg
Can we have this plz
Isnt it almost the same as it is right now after the update? Its practically the same! You criticize just to criticize i think. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
674
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:02:19 -
[122] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Dj Urri wrote:[quote=Steijn][quote=Blood Enslaver]Not to mention for people who dont have perfect vision.
I just undocked in Jita and this looks like 2 types of symbols... triangles and squares thats it and honestly i can not differentiate. And before we just had crosses, so now you have two symbols which is an improvement over before.
the crosses were distinguishable as different sizes, the new icons arent. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1470
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:02:22 -
[123] - Quote
Nevermind.Gäó
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
ForceM
POS Builder Inc. Silent Requiem
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:04:50 -
[124] - Quote
Noone noticed the eve cache folder went on a binging spree and grew to over 18 Gig ?????
I remember before the change to the "cache setup" it was closer to 10 then to 11 gig on a clean install.
Speaking of bloatware!!! |
John WarpingSlow
WoHo Academy WO'S HO'S
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:05:38 -
[125] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Something I noticed with the icons: Combat ship T2 variants have a bar under their triangle (at least frigs/destroyers/cruisers/battlecruisers have, not sure about BS), why don't T2 variants of indus ships have the bar under their icon?
That's the nice thing about standards, there are so many to choose from.
Obligatory XKCD comic: Standards |
Erinn Knight
House of Kai
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:07:04 -
[126] - Quote
icons are great, people just need to get used to them. |
Sexual White Chocolate
People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:09:10 -
[127] - Quote
Erinn Knight wrote:icons are great, people just need to get used to them.
I wouldn't know, still can't get the game to load. I haven't been able to get logged in to see the changes. |
Faruzen en Divalone
VentureCorp inc
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:12:26 -
[128] - Quote
Sexual White Chocolate wrote:Erinn Knight wrote:icons are great, people just need to get used to them. I wouldn't know, still can't get the game to load. I haven't been able to get logged in to see the changes.
Dont cry, you will get there eventually. |
Mysa
Alekhine's Gun The Periphery
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:14:40 -
[129] - Quote
What happend to these? http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/?_ga=1.207907346.1880404380.1433256737
This is development! The ones thats live now are... yea w.t.f are they? Shuttle Icon looks like a crawlning worm, triangel ship Icons whit bars underneth them for ship seizes?!?!?! Are they made whit an old atari 00.0003 bit system? The stargate Icon is not even round, its like somethin thats been made up in windows paint by them finnish mongolids that sang in eurovision ffs!
SoloFoLife!
-KEKE the Merlin wonder
|
Sexual White Chocolate
People for the Eating of Tasty Animals
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:17:42 -
[130] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Sexual White Chocolate wrote:Erinn Knight wrote:icons are great, people just need to get used to them. I wouldn't know, still can't get the game to load. I haven't been able to get logged in to see the changes. Dont cry, you will get there eventually.
I'm not crying, merely pointing out that a patch that I never wanted, asked for, or needed, has made a game that previously worked just fine, completely unplayable for me now. So as one might imagine, I am slightly perturbed. |
|
Egor Bathana
Viziam Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:18:52 -
[131] - Quote
I cant do private contracts. No matter what name i put in there, it cant be found.. :/ |
John WarpingSlow
WoHo Academy WO'S HO'S
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:20:43 -
[132] - Quote
Egor Bathana wrote:I cant do private contracts. No matter what name i put in there, it cant be found.. :/
I had that problem yesterday - solution was logging out and logging in again - try that. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:24:50 -
[133] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. While this is true, it still does not solve the issue that some icons are not as clear cut as others and too similar when there are lots of different ship types around. There are also more things to Eve than just PvP. Sharing the same kind of icons with NPCs, and also having icons which are too similar to each other is not going to help anyone in the long run. Look at neutral NPC icons. Can you tell what is a player, and what is an NPC just by icon alone? No, you can not.
There are even not enough distinctions between Tech1 and Tech2 ships on an icon level. So again, we are not even half there.
I do not want to congratulate CCP on a change that causes more bad things than good ones.
If I remember correctly, these have been scrapped because of bad player feedback, because the icons where not distinguishable enough from one another, and insert 90% UI scaling here too. They scrapped the old one, but I'm at a loss for words how they could think the new one is that much better... |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:27:42 -
[134] - Quote
John WarpingSlow wrote:Egor Bathana wrote:I cant do private contracts. No matter what name i put in there, it cant be found.. :/ I had that problem yesterday - solution was logging out and logging in again - try that. Update: Checked my thread in Issues and logging out/in didn't work for some people. If you're still having the issue, follow up in that thread and hopefully something will be done. Good luck. Yes I just had the same issue and reclogging fixed it. |
Ardanay Wanderer
Geon Navy Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:30:35 -
[135] - Quote
Give back old overview icons, i cant see this porno!!!!!!!!
make old or new overview icons as optional!
My eyes bleeding !
|
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:30:51 -
[136] - Quote
Sexual White Chocolate wrote:I'm not crying, merely pointing out that a patch that I never wanted, asked for, or needed, has made a game that previously worked just fine, completely unplayable for me now. So as one might imagine, I am slightly perturbed. You paid the subscription with full knowledge that the game would be updated on a continual basis. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
139
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:34:36 -
[137] - Quote
The.
New.
Icons.
Are.
Terrible.
At doing the job of "Icon"....sorta like the last attempt at new turret icons...
Why did you dilerberately shoose to keep cruisers looking 99% identical to dreads??? Among soo many other issues raised and subsequently ignored.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=422538
^All the feedback except for the 'pacman' stargates was ignored. Good show CCP, good show. |
Malicon Rex
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:36:13 -
[138] - Quote
I can get over the icons, as awful as they are. I would however like my ship centered in the hangar, which it is not. Yes I have tried changing my resolution several notches down and then setting it back, to no avail. It appears to be off about the ships width to one side, nothing I've done so far, other than moving the camera center seems to work. Even that leaves the ship somewhat off-center in the hangar and space. |
wappie weed
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:41:45 -
[139] - Quote
:S:S:S:S:S:S:S:s what a ........ my ship is depleted in 6 minuts ................... it should be stable you guysr rune my ship
and the overview icoons are to psycho..... plzz play this game urself also so you will notice.. you guys are f..king the game up |
Nemesis DCC
Dead Crow Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:44:44 -
[140] - Quote
The launcher works fine but the game simply won't start!!!! What the hell are you doing CCP? Is this supposed to be an improvement of regression? SMH |
|
Dj Urri
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:44:55 -
[141] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Dj Urri wrote:[quote=Steijn][quote=Blood Enslaver]Not to mention for people who dont have perfect vision.
I just undocked in Jita and this looks like 2 types of symbols... triangles and squares thats it and honestly i can not differentiate. And before we just had crosses, so now you have two symbols which is an improvement over before. the crosses were distinguishable as different sizes, the new icons arent.
and now we dont have the color to differentiate betwen npc and players -.- so i guess we got 2 types now but they merged npc and players :( |
Fc Alfa
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:52:13 -
[142] - Quote
fozzys sov sux well your sitting on it |
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:52:53 -
[143] - Quote
Some feedback on the new icons:
1. For Starbase modules: really like most of them, however all ewar now has the same icon. the old Neutralizer was a glorious electric discharge icon that really stood out. Since this POS module really stands out in game mechanics, I would try to revert to the old or redesign the old one.
2. For NPC (rats) the new icons feel gratuitous, but i'd like to hear comments from incursion runners / missioners.
3. The old wormhole and gate icons were some of the most distinctive EVE icons in the game, and examples of great design. Please could we have them back? The new wormhole icon isn't bad but it was a case of it's not broken, don't fix it. The same could have been said for Damage Control icon. The new stargate icon looks terrible since it's a square with rounded corners instead of a circle. Aesthetically feels wrong.
-- Fang |
wappie weed
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:53:39 -
[144] - Quote
after 13 years of eve ... they change it loool how stupid is that ^ ^ thats 13 years or how long eve is online ..to late |
Steijn
Quay Industries
675
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:55:07 -
[145] - Quote
Belinda HwaFang wrote:Some feedback on the new icons:
2. For NPC (rats) the new icons feel gratuitous, but i'd like to hear comments from incursion runners / missioners.
-- Fang
once they start flashing they are just a blurred mess with everything looking the same as each other. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:59:06 -
[146] - Quote
Action. I can't make out icons on either 100% or 90% as I have weak eyesight. (mentioned a few times in issues with the upgrading going on with shiny! and moar detail!)
Reaction. Only one account will still be active by mid-month. I see no point to pay for three running when playing on one will be a fight against an end user visual handicap. Why amp up my frustration X3, X1 will be enuf of an upward struggle for this light sensitive thick lenses on glasses gamer chick.
CCP, at least put an opt out on the icons, like is currently available for the new map. Please.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 15:59:19 -
[147] - Quote
new icons is really bad and makes it so u dont see anything..
eveonline = pre-alfa testing for 12+ years on the best way to make the game unplayable, but hey maybe the new "modern ui" icons gets one or two wow players to switch to eve.
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Johnny Suicide
Send in the CIowns Darwinism.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:00:48 -
[148] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: ZERO improvements on starmap, which are direly needed.
How do you figure this as they just redid the entire map and it looks wicked awesome.
|
Roosterman Clown-lover
Temple of the Five Elements
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:01:58 -
[149] - Quote
ICONS ARE TERRIBLE!!
Don't need to see an icon for a frigate or a cruiser.. my overview tells me that.. and it tells me what type of frigate or cruiser..
Concord ships (which aren't on my overview) now show up as the same as player ships.. I'm assuming this will be awesome at gates in losec.
Asteroids also show up now based upon the % (0, 5, 10) rarity.. but you still have to look at the overview to see what type it is..
The icons look like a 5 year old drew them with an etch-a-sketch.
Going to log now and hope that in a couple days maybe you can replace it with a beta like u did with the map and allow us the option of either..
in parting...
the icons are terrible |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Eternal Pretorian Alliance
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:05:12 -
[150] - Quote
Holy ****, those icons D:
Thank you for fixing the Serpentis ships \o/ they look proper again. And the sanshas have some of their sheen back :) |
|
Emma Ravon
Arbosa Industries
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:06:15 -
[151] - Quote
new icons suck balls please go back to the way the where no one likes them |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:06:27 -
[152] - Quote
so once you figured out which icon represents a rookie ship, what icon stands for a standard frig, which one is a assault frig...and so on, you still have to look in the columns at the type to know if its a gallente one or minmatar.....because there is the decisive difference.
somebody said more playful is good in my opinion its just fluff and absolutly not needed! In most situations you have to decide in a single second if you attack or run and functional minimalistic crosses working just fine! cause second information that this mess of icon dosent show, the important one, is the exact hull you are facing.
Edit: dont get me wrong this is meant as constructive feedback/criticism. If you do a new overview, it should have a clear advantage over the old one. I just cant get the advantage here. |
wappie weed
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:08:13 -
[153] - Quote
i need to anoy somebody .... i realy hate the way my ship is now why change something that works fine now myship is unstable no fun i gave up alot to make it stable now you people rune it big time
and ya the overview items... why change it it worked great ... and its anoying to look at something you click on ..
lool when you looting containers or wrecks real fast you get sick from the screen turning and rolling over |
Azrael Sheriph
Original Sinners The Bastion
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:08:51 -
[154] - Quote
Did you seriously allow station serives to be entosised during non vulnerability hours?
i though you were smarter than that.
cause if you did
1 your giving the defender daily quests. 2 your giving a total licence to troll to attackers 3 your giving complete free kills to pirates (which we all though was the point of a vunrablity window)
gj ccp |
chmeee kzin
Raging Main Zero Fux.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:09:19 -
[155] - Quote
The new icons... well, looks like we are playing in Lego world.
My first thought after jumping through gate and looking at overview was... Oh my! look at all the pretty colored flashing "smart fab units" wait? since when did "smart fab units" have lasers?
Note to self: Build new ship to replace one lost in L-EGO system.
You guys do know how the cognitive recognition process works right? Brain matches symbol with object, brain assigns priority, brain stores. New symbols introduced for same object confuses brain and prompts the brain to issue the "WTF error message".
oh well, I will adapt |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:09:26 -
[156] - Quote
Johnny Suicide wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: ZERO improvements on starmap, which are direly needed.
How do you figure this as they just redid the entire map and it looks wicked awesome.
New Map looks nice but isn't close to functional in ALOT of areas.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Jellas
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:11:20 -
[157] - Quote
New icons are horrible and do not carry any meaning . The designer should look for a new job. |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:12:06 -
[158] - Quote
Horrible Icons.
Terrible.
* PLEASE * Give us the option to turn off the new icons, or scrap the change altogether. This was not necessary, and is now an ugly burden.
Koba |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:12:58 -
[159] - Quote
Johnny Suicide wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: ZERO improvements on starmap, which are direly needed.
How do you figure this as they just redid the entire map and it looks wicked awesome.
You might want to read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5524993#post5524993
And then you want to read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5702402#post5702402
Since system scanning went live, I have not seen a SINGLE person saying they preferred the new map over the old one. Not a single one. This includes forum, corp chat, other chats. This includes people who hardly scan, to those who scan for a living, ranging from PvE hacking to scanning down ships quickly in order to warp a fleet to the target.
Only because it "looks" wicked awesome, doesn't mean it FUNCTIONS better than before. Which it clearly does not.
Usability is more important than looks. Make it useful first, then improve the looks WITHOUT cutting down on functionality. Sadly, this mantra seems to be forgotten more and more each passing year, on a global scale. |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:15:07 -
[160] - Quote
chmeee kzin wrote:The new icons... well, looks like we are playing in Lego world. You guys do know how the cognitive recognition process works right? Brain matches symbol with object, brain assigns priority, brain stores. New symbols introduced for same object confuses brain and prompts the brain to issue the "WTF error message".
exactly.
How do we erase twelve years of visual cues and muscle memory? Why the hell was this a priority?
Change it back !! Or - give us the option to turn it off.
Whiskey tango foxtrot.
K |
|
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
41
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:17:33 -
[161] - Quote
Emma Ravon wrote:new icons suck balls please go back to the way the where no one likes them
Tim: "CCP should not have changed icons." Tom: "We should never have come down from the trees." Tina: "Trees? Getting out of the ocean was a mistake."
I do like the new icons better than the old ones. Like many changes in life they take a little getting used to, that's all. Get a grip. |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:17:56 -
[162] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Johnny Suicide wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: ZERO improvements on starmap, which are direly needed.
How do you figure this as they just redid the entire map and it looks wicked awesome. You might want to read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5524993#post5524993 And then you want to read this: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5702402#post5702402 Since system scanning went live, I have not seen a SINGLE person saying they preferred the new map over the old one. Not a single one. This includes forum, corp chat, other chats. This includes people who hardly scan, to those who scan for a living, ranging from PvE hacking to scanning down ships quickly in order to warp a fleet to the target. Only because it "looks" wicked awesome, doesn't mean it FUNCTIONS better than before. Which it clearly does not. Usability is more important than looks. Make it useful first, then improve the looks WITHOUT cutting down on functionality. Sadly, this mantra seems to be forgotten more and more each passing year, on a global scale.
First thing I did when this went live was switch back to the old map. For anyone that does any form of scanning this new map is useless.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Nikki Issier
Member of Member of Member of Member of
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:18:38 -
[163] - Quote
. |
Don Pera Saissore
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:18:47 -
[164] - Quote
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:Don Pera Saissore wrote:http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/UIModernization_Blog_Screenshot.jpg
Can we have this plz Isnt it almost the same as it is right now after the update? Its practically the same! You criticize just to criticize i think.
How is that "practically the same" In the preview we have nice filled out triangles with different width and size all easily distinguishable when placed near each other.
I think your eye sight was damaged by the new overview, i would sue ccp if i were you |
XSANATOS
Bane and Pain Limited Expectations
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:18:57 -
[165] - Quote
Missing new alliance logos !
Why no information about this to us, the site for the thread is broken, still no info !
CCP FIX IT
|
Nemesis DCC
Dead Crow Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:19:30 -
[166] - Quote
How the hell do I fix my problem? Game gets stuck when launched and not responding (Win 8). Tried everything and it won't bloody start. Changed to WIn 7 Compatibility mode and made it just worst. Somebody having the same problem and managed to fix it? |
inflogim
Blue Color Works
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:19:51 -
[167] - Quote
new icons .... arghhhh; what a garbage |
Nikki Issier
Member of Member of Member of Member of
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:21:05 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Carnyx has been successfully deployed on June 2 during an extended downtime. Carnyx brings many new features to EVE Online, including fully revamped icons in space and in the overview, the first set of sovereignty changes, fantastic new graphic shaders, module rebalances, the Caldari Tech-3 destroyer "Jackdaw" and more. You can check out details of all these features on the new Updates webpage, here. The full details of all changes and improvements are available in the patch notes. For general discussion and feedback regarding Carnyx, please use this thread.Please report issues with the release on the PC in the Carnyx issues thread. For Mac users, there is, as always, a thread on the Macintosh forums for discussion of this release here.
Nice job guys |
Rilixpilix
Gladius Veritatis Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:22:09 -
[169] - Quote
dear CCP please stop hurting my eyes and bring back the old overview icons thank you
P.S. NO there is NO WAY you can fix those |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:22:58 -
[170] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Eli Stan wrote:I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. While this is true, it still does not solve the issue that some icons are not as clear cut as others and too similar when there are lots of different ship types around. There are even not enough distinctions between Tech1 and Tech2 ships on an icon level. So again, we are not even half there. Hi, Natya! o/
While we are indeed not at a point where every ship type can be discerned by an in-space icon, we're a lot closer now than we were before when all we had were some differently sized squares, some of which were actually shared by differently sized ships. Also, I'm not so concerned about discerning T1 vs T2 ships - for example Caracal vs Cerb. That would start introducing too much clutter, IMO. Just like I don't need in-space icons to differentiate an Exeq logi from an Exeq Navy blaster ship. Or a slow Vexor from a fast Stabber. Just knowing "Cruiser" is enough.
I think CCP have gone far enough for an initial deployment of new icons. Now CCP just need to see how things shake out as players adjust to the new icons from use, rather than an initial gut reaction.
Quote:There are also more things to Eve than just PvP. Sharing the same kind of icons with NPCs, and also having icons which are too similar to each other is not going to help anyone in the long run. Look at neutral NPC icons. Can you tell what is a player, and what is an NPC just by icon alone? No, you can not.
Actually - and I do realize that this might be unique for me and doesn't apply to everybody, or even anybody, else - it's extremely easy for me to tell neutral NPCs from other players after this patch. It's not by icon, which I've never used to begin with. That's because all players are colored to me - purple for fleetmates, red/yellow for legal lowsec targets, and teal for everybody else. It makes it extremely easy to pick out ships from non-ships on the overview.
Quote:I do not want to congratulate CCP on a change that causes more bad things than good ones. For me, it's working out to a nice improvement so far.
|
|
Altomir
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:23:36 -
[171] - Quote
New icons are MONSTROSITY!! Remove this and forget it ever happened ASAP!!!! |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
278
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:24:39 -
[172] - Quote
New icons for ships -> good, now I can tell what I'm shooting. New icons for everything else -> no, just no. Who thought that changing gate icon into a pac-man is an improvement? Celestials becons icon? Is it 90'? Very bad design and I don't think it was necessary.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
280
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:25:50 -
[173] - Quote
Someone explain to me the reason the notification caused by the Entosis Link is game wide? System or constellation wide sure, but universe wide goes directly against the idea of the new sov system.
Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
|
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
265
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:26:00 -
[174] - Quote
Update went fine, and I do like the new icons. Can't believe someone is ready to pay 1b8 for a Jackdaw in Jita
Now looking forward to test the entosis link on services that needs to go down, as orders have been given
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
Judith Baker
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:28:01 -
[175] - Quote
Alt tabbing back into the game is much slower for me now in fullscreen mode. |
Bravo Ghost
Shadows Syndicate
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:28:44 -
[176] - Quote
Anyone else having a tough time adjusting to the new icons?
I find they look terrible especially when scaled and some of the icons just look like they belong in a pack-man game! Personally I would prefer the ability to make and import my own, having a decent knowledge of design software I am Sure I could make way better icons
Thanks for trying CCPGǪ |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1649
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:30:09 -
[177] - Quote
Nami Miyasaki wrote:The icons are awesome!
Objectively good artistic work.
Only reason why people dont like them is because they havent become used to associate the icons yet.
I regret to inform you that that is a steaming pile.......
We have had plenty of experience of these icons on SISI and more than enough time to adapt, IF you were correct.
You are not.
These issues were reported, multiple times, by many people, and in spite of being told our views were being taken account of, they were ignored. That is a valid choice I suppose, but now they will encounter the full mass of dissatisfaction. This could have been so easily avoided, by actually acting on the feedback.
The design is poor, but that can be lived with, however, apart from the mass blobs of icons in space overlaying each other into an illegible mess, icons of cruisers and below are just illegible and indistinguishable. Possibly OK with 20 year old eyes and 20/20 vision, but anyone else is so out of luck.
Please tell me how one "gets used" to something that cannot be clearly seen? Or is 30 years old the new blind? If one restricts the game to teenagers, well, one will get the customers one deserves.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
5576
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Posted - 2015.06.02 16:32:26 -
[178] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Violent Grey
Walking On Marshmallows
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:34:01 -
[179] - Quote
sweet, today is a good day. I get my accounts re subbed and a new patch release... haha! good morning to everyone :P |
Brad
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Shadow of xXDEATHXx
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:34:40 -
[180] - Quote
I'm getting crashes, stalls and bsods when using multiple clients now. Turning everything from high to low detail and using the launcher gives you about 5 mins while not using the launcher and max graphics crashes before the 2nd client loads. I never get crashes or bsods and I play all the latest. Everything is up to date driver wise. Sort it out pls
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Mirija
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:36:57 -
[181] - Quote
time to kick those designers , first that f**cked up UI-changes .. and now this Overview crap.
. . .
btw nice work on the caracal. |
Malie Hakaari
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:40:06 -
[182] - Quote
Holy **** who designed these icons?
Why do you insist on messing with things that were perfectly fine. At least give us an option to keep the old icons. The new ones are horrible.
POS icons, yuck! They're all boxy and horrible and wtf is that JB icon? It's like the old station icon with an arrow. The old one at least looked like a gate icon.
Why are guns and ewar batteries pratically the same icon, seriously, who is in your art department and do they play this game or did they just grad and figured they knew what they were doing and wanted to make it 'hip and boxy'
If you do not want to remove the new icons, FFS allow us to revert to the old ones. UI scaling sucks now, icons are not even close to the originals and are UGLY, let me repeat, they are UGLY.
Seriously need to find a new role in the company for the person or team that designed these and did not listen to player feedback. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11191
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:43:18 -
[183] - Quote
Bravo Ghost wrote:Anyone else having a tough time adjusting to the new icons? I find they look terrible especially when scaled and some of the icons just look like they belong in a pack-man game! Personally I would prefer the ability to make and import my own, having a decent knowledge of design software I am Sure I could make way better icons Thanks for trying CCPGǪ
I'm not having a hard time adjusting, it's easy to adjust to them. What's not easy is understanding why someone thought this mess looked cool and why CCP felt the need to fix something that was functional enough the way it was. EVE with brackets on in a place with a lot of ships and structures looks terribly messy.
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Shai 'Hulud
194
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:45:45 -
[184] - Quote
speed nerf 2.0 incoming?
The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
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epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1649
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:47:00 -
[185] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons. I respectfully disagree, whilst you may not want to believe it, the icons are poor and illigible for cruiser and below (size) at any scaling.
You chose not to believe this when it was mass reported on sisi, you may eventually accept it now Tranquility is reacting with shock as to how bad it is.
Just to clarify, in case you wish to use the argument that the playerbase is resistant to change, that needs qualifying.
The playerbase is resistant to BAD change.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:56:57 -
[186] - Quote
Impressed with everything...loved the shaders, some ships had a real improvement. Didn't scan all the modules yet...The Jackdaw better looking than I anticipated. The SOV changes...guess I will just wait and hear how others interpret the effects. The Drifters doing anything different? I hadn't noticed yet. Like the Icons, especially the new ship specific ones. Didn't hear the music yet, but had my music off when I launched. My Rorqual is still unviable to use though, hope it changes when citidels are put online and have the 'proximity immunity' you mentioned in the dev post...
+1 CCP, I like it alot!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:58:41 -
[187] - Quote
Thank you CCP for finally adding wing forms! The new icons not just make sense they are absolutely what I expected after the preview so to say. The ship icons/wing forms are a pleasure to my eyes and after trying crowded areas I no longer need to fly without brackets in space when there are more than 10ships on grid. It safes me a lot of time to realise what-¦s on grid and what is not. For proper identification I have my tabs but to realise the grid situation they are simply perfect and for the ships it was more like a relief than something I have to get used to. The other icons are well, they make sense so I like them. Still feels a bit strange but that-¦s the case with every change.
Keep these small changes coming, the faster I can realise stuff the better it will be. The old icons were simply a pain in the butt and made no sense whatsoever. And for people like me who are used to wing forms and "logical" icons it was simply a no go to use them for anything meaningful.
edit: I totally forgot the new lightning stuff and models. Big hugs for the art team, the V5++ or how it-¦s called is awesome and the new ships are eye candies! I will blame the art team for some of my upcoming losses tho because of the diversion. Ship spinning is nice but out in space they look so much better and out there it-¦s cold and hostile. :P |
Caloose
THE BLACK MAMBA Clearly Confused.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 16:58:41 -
[188] - Quote
I am not even in the game yet. Still stuck with a game that dont load...
Launcher is working but the game doesent start. ccp eve.exe is running in the background but the game doesent...
Whats going on here??
Any solutions??
I have an account that doesent do any training since just after downtime.
And after what i understand here on this post there will be like a big load of work to setup your game before you even can play..
Great!!!
Happy there is a music festival to attend to for 3 days :P |
Camael An'geles
The Back Yard Twilight Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:01:36 -
[189] - Quote
That sun icon though |
Ivelios d'Sanquine
The Roman Legion Something Fishy.
2
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:02:03 -
[190] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:New brackets for ships, NPCs and drones are bad.
Ships come in a variety of messy shapes, while first and foremost they must be telling me it's a player ship. But no,
NPCs come in very same shapes, thus making it rather hard to tell PCs from NPCs at a glance.
In addition, drones come in a variety of messy shapes of their own (which look all alike) while not being important enough to deserve it. All I need to know it's a drone. More info on Drones tab in the overview.
When all three groups are present in a single PvP grid, things start to look messy. I cannot tell a Player from and NPCs from a drone from a wreck, because they look so much alike, with the tiny curves and dots that they are. The only way to get though is using mouse over tips and reading the overview which (suprise!) worked okay with old brackets.
It used to work like this: I see angle brackets (PCs), Red crosses (NPCs), slanted crosses (drones). At the very instant of looking at the icons I knew which group are they. If I care enough about any of them, I either mouse over them, or read the overview. This is not working anymore, because there's a dozen of different shapes in a single grid. What a mess!
Not talking about brackets for stationary objects (they are a mess, but much less relevant to me).
Frankly, these 'revamped' brackets are an utter fail.
This,
For people who have the time to read the different icons (while mining or missioning) this change might be welcoming but for a pvp'er the new changes are horrible. There are so much **** going on, on grid that you need a tool to quickly get a measure of what is what. differentiating between drones, ships, npc's, gates, planets, sun, wrecks are important in a pvp situation, and this change only complicates matters |
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biggiy
CALDARI STATE 1ST BORN Chronicles of the Angry Wormholers
6
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:02:28 -
[191] - Quote
shame you didnt improve the sentry drones to make them more useful now there worse score to CCP good going guys |
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:03:18 -
[192] - Quote
New icons are incredibly confusing and just awful. I really saw nothing wrong with the old ones. There needs to be an option to switch between styles. I'm sure it can't be that hard to impliment. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:03:38 -
[193] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:[quote=Natya Mebelle]Hi, Natya! o/ While we are indeed not at a point where every ship type can be discerned by an in-space icon, we're a lot closer now than we were before when all we had were some differently sized squares, some of which were actually shared by differently sized ships. I think CCP have gone far enough for an initial deployment of new icons. Now CCP just need to see how things shake out as players adjust to the new icons from use, rather than an initial gut reaction. Actually it's extremely easy for me to tell neutral NPCs from other players after this patch. All players are colored to me - purple for fleetmates, red/yellow for legal lowsec targets, and teal for everybody else. It makes it extremely easy to pick out ships from non-ships on the overview.
Hello Eli *snickers*
You are right, we are closer now, but there are STILL ships which share icons with each other. So what is the purpose of overhauling an icon system when not even going the whole way? Delivering half finished products as "release" is nothing to be applauded for. I yield to your point with the "I don't need to know which exact type of Tech 2 cruiser". But do you think it would be important to see at a single glance if you are swarmed by a bunch of Merlins, or a bunch of either Harpies or Hawks? Or do you make this all out by looking at the ship type column to the side? *insert my wish to have multiple overview windows at once again*
But we had those feedback on sisi, and it was profoundly ignored? And again, why only do half the work?
Well, okay, but that means you had to customize the User interface in the first place to make this distinction. Not everybody wants that or does that. So why screw these players who don't want to? The mini-icons on the bottom corners can even obfuscate the new icons to make them even harder to read. Colouring them to your preference also is prone to miscommunication. I remember during a roam, and I think it was you in there too, where people discussed about the colour of an enemy in lowsec, and people got confused because individuals had different colours used.
So, I hope you don't get the impression I'm bashing on your opinion c: I just want to remind you what you said above: It works for you because you have already customized things way before the patch. If we want to make an objective verdict on the new icons then we need to take every aspect of players into consideration, and this means there are more disadvantages than benefits to the new icons, EVEN if I pretend that I already got used to them and the memory and association lanes in my head work fine. |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1473
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:03:39 -
[194] - Quote
The icon of my own ship (the bracket when I press Alt) is still the old square/rectangle bracket.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Electra Magnetic
Old Spice Syndicate Intrepid Crossing
24
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:05:55 -
[195] - Quote
The new icons are terribly thought out. It's very difficult to distinguish ship classes now. too many icons look alike. Is color not an option? Red for NPC's, Yellow for players, white for wrecks and deployables? |
George Gouillot
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:06:54 -
[196] - Quote
Encountered a flashy mobile depot going 5k per second - must have been linked. Turned out it was a malediction.
Why do you change things that do not need changes? What is next - an overview item for every ship in order to improve the illiterate player experience?
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Doctor Sherman
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:07:40 -
[197] - Quote
Cannot see stations now. Completely covered with white circles |
Solar Prane
Prane Industries
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:09:23 -
[198] - Quote
There seems to be something odd about the gallente shuttle model, it displays way off center in station and space. The other ships I've checked seem fine.
I like the new icons btw. |
Kronossan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:10:31 -
[199] - Quote
Look, it's not that the new icons aren't functional.. it's just that they're exceptionally ugly. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
602
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:12:23 -
[200] - Quote
Azrael Sheriph wrote:Did you seriously allow station serives to be entosised during non vulnerability hours?
i though you were smarter than that.
cause if you did
1 your giving the defender daily quests. 2 your giving a total licence to troll to attackers 3 your giving complete free kills to pirates (which we all though was the point of a vunrablity window)
gj ccp Yes this was always part of the design, station services have always been vulnerable at all times.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
44
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:12:47 -
[201] - Quote
ahahah are you normal??!!! This game becomes as TETRIS
This was the most stupid idea that you made.
Please remove this sh...ty icons and give a chance to the players to choose what icons to have!!!!
They PAY your salary!! |
Viceran Phaedra
Instar Heavy Industries
69
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:14:24 -
[202] - Quote
Carnyx release success! Thank you once again, CCP. I just have one major gripe (as the rest look like they will be fixed/gotten used to).
- Coercer Blood Raider SKIN (30 Days/ISK)
- Prophecy Blood Raider SKIN (30 Days/ISK)
- Paladin Blood Raider SKIN (Permanent/ISK/AUR)
I stood right there in the Ship SKINs roundtable room at FanFest 2015 and asked the same question then: consistency? Time-limited SKINs will only work for the rarest of ships/factions/events! Not standard ones. What if I want all my Amarr ships to have Blood Raiders livery? A system where you have to continually rent some and yet others are permanent makes no sense, and is frustrating and no fun to engage with. I really hope this is brought in to line (along with the rest of the pirate SKINs) so that the whole system is consistent. Prices also need to be adjusted so that frigate SKINs don't cost more than capital SKINs.
$0.02
Chief Executive Officer
Instar Heavy Industries
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gomlee
ISK grind
24
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:14:32 -
[203] - Quote
the icons is just meeeeh!!!
"if it aint broken dont fix it" |
Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:16:08 -
[204] - Quote
What is wrong with the new icons?
They are logical, following wing forms and therefore be pretty much spot on. And after all there are not too many different icons. |
Shai 'Hulud
194
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:16:17 -
[205] - Quote
Also, why the arbitrary swapping of roles between Gist and Core model MWD's?
Before: Gist = better cap efficiency, Core = lower sig radius penalty
Now: Gist = lower sig radius penalty, Core = better cap efficiency
All you did was swap their respective roles. If I chose Gist before the patch, I probably want Core now... and vice versa. What the hell is the point of this? You basically guaranteed that anyone with these mods now needs to do a trade in, just to regain the same stat priority they had before the patch.
And speed creep is bad!!!!!
The most useful slaves are those that believe themselves to be free
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Strykr X
X-COM Navy Gentlemen's.Parlor
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:16:34 -
[206] - Quote
Even though I much preferred the earlier drafted UI icons, I'm willing to attempt to get used to the new icons if they just revert the stargate icon to the previous version.
1) the pacman shape looks terrible (it needs to be a perfect circle) 2) the gray interior makes it indistinguishable at a glance from the other circular icons. 3) why is there gray in the interior? for other celestials, solid gray implies the object itself is solid and cannot be further entered. The circle needs to be empty on the inside to visually cue that it is something that you travel through.
The stargate icon on the overview is one of the most iconic things players have irrevocably burned into their memories. In the earlier draft of the new icons, there was no new icon for stargates, which I thought was very wise, since it was such a cornerstone of the entire visual experience.
The rest of the new overview icons players can get used to (but I do agree the NPC icons are far inferior to the drafted versions, and feel way too retro for 2015), but the new stargate icon makes me the unhappiest I've been with this game in a very long time.
Seriously, just remove the gray in the interior of the stargate option. As it is now, it visually cues that you're flying into a big planet, not into an adjacent star system. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:16:47 -
[207] - Quote
Can I undo the patch?
I want to stay with the old PERFECT icons |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
74
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:17:23 -
[208] - Quote
I'd give you feedback on the new icons but it's already been covered pretty extensively and you won't listen anyway so what's the point.
Also the new ship thumbnails look like a screenshot from 2007. |
Azeria L'Mante
FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:18:00 -
[209] - Quote
Malie Hakaari wrote:Holy **** who designed these icons?
Why do you insist on messing with things that were perfectly fine. At least give us an option to keep the old icons. The new ones are horrible.
POS icons, yuck! They're all boxy and horrible and wtf is that JB icon? It's like the old station icon with an arrow. The old one at least looked like a gate icon. The beacon icon? It looks like a ******* station icon. WHY, WHY, WHY!
Stacked icons for planet and moons and such is just a blurred mess, WHY!
I-hub is a giant I? Really? That's what the art department came up with? How fuckin original...
TCU looks like a shovel?
Why are guns and ewar batteries pratically the same icon, seriously, who is in your art department and do they play this game or did they just grad and figured they knew what they were doing and wanted to make it 'hip and boxy'
If you do not want to remove the new icons, FFS allow us to revert to the old ones. UI scaling sucks now, icons are not even close to the originals and are UGLY, let me repeat, they are UGLY.
Why the **** is a cruiser icon like a house?
Did the designers ever learn that "less is more"? Less "ornament" on icons is always better for people to distinguish important items. Why does an ambulance have a simple cross, it's not a gothic cross, it's not an ornamented to **** celtic cross, but a simple, clean cross. Completely not like your icons which have little dots, useless and hard to see variations from modules that do completely different things. You used to be able to look at things and instantly know what they were because the design was clean and there were distinct differences. Now it's like a throwback to a 1980's space-invaders or centipede game. WHY?
Seriously need to find a new role in the company for the person or team that designed these and did not listen to player feedback from SiSi.
Edit:
Why does the station services always have the "entosis" ring around them? Why not just have that appear when it's under attack? It just adds more clutter and six blurry circles to an already busy overview. It's very distracting. I think out of all icons, the station services is the only one that is okay, scrap the rest or allow a revert to the old, just please hide the ring until it's needed to be shown.
This
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:18:32 -
[210] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:You must have thought it was the minority crying about the icons on SISI?
They are awful.
I guess I don't understand why they have player access to SiSi if feedback from those players is ignored?
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
45
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:22:15 -
[211] - Quote
of course CCP dont care about us and our opinion
The same thing happens with the Tooltips and with the Opportunities |
Porucznik Borewicz
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:24:34 -
[212] - Quote
What a glorious patch... it's not. The icons are pretty hard to read. And what's the deal with the "new" pod and drones brackets / icons? What exactly was wrong with the pod icon?? Can we at least get them back? I liked the drone Xes so much. They were so... different. Someone please think about the drones! |
retsudsag
GREAT EXPECTATIONS Meet The Bandits.
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:24:42 -
[213] - Quote
I'm sorry to say the new icons are horrible, and making the icons for enemies red is bad, red is a true enemy such as war, red to you, so seeing red in overview is not a good thing, It would be better green as in ok to shoot. The new icons for items on a tower just don't fit with what they are, ya'll must have been drunk when you did this, dang sober up and try asking the players before u change things like this. |
DDemon
Volatile Instability Resonance.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:24:58 -
[214] - Quote
Most terrible icon design ever.
If you are insisting on leaving these space invader like icons in the game, at least give us the option to use the old simple and obvious icons. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:26:55 -
[215] - Quote
DDemon wrote:Most terrible icon design ever.
If you are insisting on leaving these space invader like icons in the game, at least give us the option to use the old simple and obvious icons.
YES we want to choose between old and new! Turn on/off option |
Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
134
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:28:44 -
[216] - Quote
Hey CCP.....
I know it's hard, but could you please back off from trying to "compete" with the flashy UI's and whatnot in "those other space games" and go back to what EVE does best - namely, being FUNCTIONAL.
First it was the star map - I'd be interested in seeing the statistics on how many people have turned it off and are using the old ones. I'm guessing the percentage is pretty high.
Now it's these..... icons. Or whatever you are calling them.
It's ok CCP - you don't have to try and make your interface look pretty just for the sake of looking pretty. We love you even when you're not pretty, because... you are FUNCTIONAL. (Or were. Now, I don't know.) |
Assassin Drevon
D4RK M00N Void..
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:28:54 -
[217] - Quote
Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful.
I think the icons are here to stay!!! Learn them because they will change again in the future. |
Lord Makk
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
11
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:28:57 -
[218] - Quote
Revert the UI icons, they are horrible. |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
602
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:30:04 -
[219] - Quote
SilentAsTheGrave wrote:Someone explain to me the reason the notification caused by the Entosis Link is game wide? System or constellation wide sure, but universe wide goes directly against the idea of the new sov system. This was always part of our design. The full system will also include a dashboard showing you the status of all Sov structures in your alliance, what matters is that you will need to be there to defend it.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
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Madred Nero
Interstellar Reposession Company Darwinism.
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:30:15 -
[220] - Quote
I have not had any trouble with the game running, but I personally feel the icons were fine the way they were. If anything change some colors on them,[ i.e. Planets, Pocos, Stations ] But leave the icon design the same. |
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Hengle Teron
Give Righteous Isolationists Excessive Force
52929
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:34:01 -
[221] - Quote
welcome to the overview: hieroglyph style |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
35
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:34:23 -
[222] - Quote
SERIOUSLY CCP why change things that arent broken? why not fix things that are actually broken or neglected? but instead we get huge icons on overview slower loading times n idk whatever elses,stop changing things n start fixin issues that has been around for umm ages. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:34:45 -
[223] - Quote
Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! |
Tomski Ruslav
Hull Breach.
1
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:38:23 -
[224] - Quote
You ruined my freaking overview, it looks awefull
One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
112
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:39:11 -
[225] - Quote
Assassin Drevon wrote:Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful. I think the icons are here to stay!!! Learn them because they will change again in the future.
I'll use Assassin's post as his name is subtly apt for what this icon issue does to player participation. You had a very solid set of feedback on SiSi. Now, in the General Feedback, the issue has arisen again, and seems to be ignored. (I realize that CCP Lebowski is in charge of what he's responding to, so I don't fault him for not addressing an issue that he doesn't have input into).
The Icon issue is a specific on, but the general issue is the treatment of the playerbase by CCP. There's too much competition out there now, for CCP to be driving players away and counting on some kind of miracle to replace the lost subscription income.
Back to specifics, changing the UI to something that makes the game much less fun for the playerbase was an additional issue in Incarna. I think the 'testers' were ignored on that too. Let's not redo that mistake as we're not in as strong a position to survive it.
Sorry for the negativity, but when negative elements are forced on us, they need to be addressed. |
Artimidus Antariouse
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.06.02 17:42:41 -
[226] - Quote
well since this update i have not been able to properly play the game, i have send a crash report in game with screenshots, but i thought id post it on here as well, basically the game works ok when docked up except i cant open the fitting window, and when i undock, i get a black screen, however the UI and icons are still there, from what i can tell my ship still moves and flies though space but its still a black screen, i left it stationary for a good 15 minutes in case it was some kind of lag but still nothing, even after a fresh install its the same. i have tried going into planet view and back, into map and back (f10), a new install, and still nothing
Could anyone help me, as from what I've researched I'm not the only one going though this problem?
On a better note i do personally like the new icons, helps you to better identify a ship/s type on the fly, and they do stand out well, in my opinion, however that is because to me I'm used to icon setups like that from other games, on the other hand, most of my fellow corporation members do not seem to like them much at all, they believe they are not clear enough, and are in some cases a little bit confusing, which sadly one or two icons like the capsule icon and a couple others like that i must agree on. However i think maybe with a couple small minor teaks and time everyone will grow a custom to them. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:43:55 -
[227] - Quote
Can I have the e-mail and phone of DEV supervisor or manger?? Probably he is not doing his job - and his job is to read the feedback, listen the players and control the DEV |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:46:35 -
[228] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Hello Eli *snickers*
You are right, we are closer now, but there are STILL ships which share icons with each other. So what is the purpose of overhauling an icon system when not even going the whole way? Delivering half finished products as "release" is nothing to be applauded for. I yield to your point with the "I don't need to know which exact type of Tech 2 cruiser". But do you think it would be important to see at a single glance if you are swarmed by a bunch of Merlins, or a bunch of either Harpies or Hawks? Or do you make this all out by looking at the ship type column to the side? *insert my wish to have multiple overview windows at once again*
But we had those feedback on sisi, and it was profoundly ignored? And again, why only do half the work?
Well, okay, but that means you had to customize the User interface in the first place to make this distinction. Not everybody wants that or does that. So why screw these players who don't want to? The mini-icons on the bottom corners can even obfuscate the new icons to make them even harder to read. Colouring them to your preference also is prone to miscommunication. I remember during a roam, and I think it was you in there too, where people discussed about the colour of an enemy in lowsec, and people got confused because individuals had different colours used.
So, I hope you don't get the impression I'm bashing on your opinion c: I just want to remind you what you said above: It works for you because you have already customized things way before the patch. If we want to make an objective verdict on the new icons then we need to take every aspect of players into consideration, and this means there are more disadvantages than benefits to the new icons, EVEN if I pretend that I already got used to them and the memory and association lanes in my head work fine.
Hmm, Merlins vs Harpies and Hawks... Or even more important, Cormorant vs Flycatcher vs Jackdaw... However I think, at some point, that would become information overload for me. The previous icons, on the other hand, didn't have enough information. So I'm happy with the current new icons, I think they're a nice compromise of enough info, but not too much. Of course, that's just my personal experience after a few hours. :)
Indeed, that's a customization that works well for me. Others could adopt it. Another thing people could do is create a brackets preset that simply doesn't have neutral NPCs. (I think? Haven't tried to create such, personally, so I'm not entirely sure that neutral vs hostile rats can be differentiated that way.) Finally, CCP could of course adjust icons for neutral NPCs to be different, if enough people complain about them.
Yeah, security/criminal status is always an issue when roaming low, where not everybody is legally shootable. Red to one person is criminal status, war target to another person, and personal dislike to a third.
No worries. Just stating why I like the new icons, and why they work for me. I understand and respect that others don't. |
Marsha Mallow
2180
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:49:09 -
[229] - Quote
I forgot there was a patch today and got in within minutes. Nice job on the patch size/update.
The new icons look fine to me, dunno what all the fuss is about >.>
Solecist Project wrote: See, the issue isn't the rubbing
ISD Ezwal wrote: Nope, no one will get banned for 'rubbing'
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:51:43 -
[230] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:There's too much competition out there now, for CCP to be driving players away and counting on some kind of miracle to replace the lost subscription income.
Especially with the opportunity system which is giving new players an unnecessarily hard time to get into the game. It was another half-hearted attempt to revamp the new player experience. A proper attempt would have been to integrate the opportunities into career agents, while revamping career agents as well.
The old Aura tutorial popups when accepting certain career agents are dead. That means half of the career missions are profoundly useless since 28th of April, being Mosaic patch. The only thing a new player learns about scanning, is what little information they receive when reading "to boldly go" opportunity. That's it. There is not one mention about right clicking, and not one mention about the evelopia.
I do not believe CCP when they say 10% more subscriptions come from opportunities than not. I want to challenge this with other counter-statistics. How much google and youtube did those users have to do compared to regular tutorial users? Because nowadays, Eve online tutorial has degraded to "just google it" instead of helping the new player. How much was their decision driven to subscribe because they found help within the starter corporation or other player corps which are there to help out new players? This is important because the cries for help are a lot louder and a lot more than ever before, thus the interaction between players is higher too.
What does this have to do with anything? Well, Opportunities have not been updated at all and the new starmap has received 4 insignificant fixes.
Do you want the icons to suffer the same fate? I sure have lost a lot of faith in CCP, and I've been at this game since 2008. Your "fast paced schedule" is a bad idea, since you are proving to us even more that you do not fix the troubles you are shipping. |
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
49
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:53:28 -
[231] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:I forgot there was a patch today and got in within minutes. Nice job on the patch size/update.
The new icons look fine to me, dunno what all the fuss is about >.>
For you and another 500 ppl is not big issue, but for the other 50 000 players is a big issue believe me! |
Porucznik Borewicz
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:53:34 -
[232] - Quote
Oh, so CCP also managed the screw up the fitting window sound effect... Stellar development work. |
S810 Jr
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:54:10 -
[233] - Quote
Why the rename off all 1's to 5's on the MWD? If people are unable to already read "Afterburner" and "Microwarpdrive" I don't think changing the number is their biggest issue.
|
Miss Blueprint
BIueprints
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:56:27 -
[234] - Quote
New icons are f**k ugly and horrible. Add option to remove them please please please!
/me rage quit. |
Gebe
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:56:29 -
[235] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years. So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one.
Damn right that ancient niche UI looked 100x better. |
Treyah
Blackwater Syndicate The Blood Covenant
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:57:18 -
[236] - Quote
Launcher still broken, can't download the patch...AGAIN |
chmeee kzin
Raging Main Zero Fux.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:58:17 -
[237] - Quote
Hengle Teron wrote:welcome to the overview: hieroglyph style
e: just to be clear, they're ******* terrible
A solution to for the new and "improved" overview icons
Bad Link lol
Overview Translator BPC's coming soon to the Eve Market place.
Of course you will have to train UI for Morons lvl4, did I mention the new skill requirement.
Laughing at yourself is fun, Laughing at others is a pastime. |
mellifera
Island Assault Force Fortuna Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 17:59:59 -
[238] - Quote
Who signed off the overview icons....???
The Icons are absolutely woeful......................
Game developers seems determined to destroy EVE's own identity by frigging around with icons to the point it no longer feels or looks like eve...
Classic 'new management' operating mode, change things that work for the sake of it so they can take credit......
Pointless and pityful work.... |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1652
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:02:22 -
[239] - Quote
Soooo. Regarding the icons, it boils down to almost everyone loathing and despising them, and a couple of trolls claiming that they offer the path to enlightenment and infinite clarity..... Wonder if you will possibly listen this time.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
138
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:05:36 -
[240] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse!
That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones.
We are reading the feedback you are providing.
All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.
We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling.
We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns.
Thank you for all your feedback so far.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
|
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DemetRYS
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:05:39 -
[241] - Quote
CCP - Do you guys test anything before patching? Are you sure you do? Like, REALLY sure? Because it doesn't look like you do.
Not sure what's worse: a dev department that doesn't test, or a dev department does test and produces patch this buggy anyway. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
683
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:08:10 -
[242] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
i changed mine to 100% after you replied to my previous post. They still look ****!!
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1652
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:08:56 -
[243] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
Please provide your playerbase, with eyes that do not operate with the usual physics regarding optics in the real world. As that seems to be the only alternative, if you continue to persist in designing icons that do not take into account real world issues of legibility.
Walk down to your local optician, and ask his opinion, you really have a serious problem here, and need to face up to it.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Slava Gagarin
Space Traffic Control
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:10:51 -
[244] - Quote
1. new overview icons are very bad !
2. why do you changed rats + ( awfull ) idea realy , pluses is better and more simple !
3. please keep it simple !
good luck |
DllOverRun
Tommy Wat Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:11:42 -
[245] - Quote
The overview icons are just total rubbish its a strain to see what's what now :( Grrrrrrrrrrr not a happy hector :( |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:11:47 -
[246] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
Hi CCP Claymore. The ppl don't want to get used to them. They want to have an OPTION to use old one or new! Personally for myself and my corp mate and old players we want to use the old one.
|
S810 Jr
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:12:30 -
[247] - Quote
All I have to say about the new icons is:
To the Jita statue? |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
502
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:16:38 -
[248] - Quote
Thank you for your buff to large scale gang warfare. It would appear the easiest way to deal with the new icons is to ensure you have 3 times as many on grid as your opposition.
Nice stealth balance to help current sov holders defend their territory against small gangs testing out the new entosis links. |
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
86
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:17:32 -
[249] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
Sh*t deflectors on maximum, captain!
Hang in there, pickup a bottle or two for your crew, and you'll get through this. Most of the icons seem logical. Tough art project when you are given <40 pixels to work with... |
Komercijala
Aura Solutions
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:17:56 -
[250] - Quote
hello ccp i need to say GET BACK OLD ICONS this ones are terrible PLEASE |
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Carrion Crow
Darkness and Voices
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:18:16 -
[251] - Quote
Caracal... Cerberus...
Oh my.
They are incredible.
Still pondering icons... |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
312
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:19:24 -
[252] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
Honestly though the feedback on the test server feedback forum is pretty much a microcosm of what is happening here, with at least a 3:1 bad:good ratio. With the new map, players were happy with the option to turn it off - I was extremely happy I could still use the old map. It will take you a long time to iterate through this sufficiently to please a majority of people, so in the mean time it would be hugely beneficial for both designers (using metrics of usage), and players to have the option to go back to the old icons, so they can play the game the way they like to in the mean time.
Options. To not have them and have something like this forced just makes lots of friction happen.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Lord Makk
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:20:17 -
[253] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
You can respond by reverting the icon garbage, have you looked at it? Are you a Monopoly fan?
|
Shinah Myst
SoT The Gorgon Empire
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:22:29 -
[254] - Quote
Okay, you got me there CCP. How much should I pay for you to bring back the old icons? No seriously, just tell me the number. Because I am not going to get used to the mess. I am not going to lose ships shooting MTU or a station service instead of the enemy just because you think I should give a try to something nobody asked you for. Well, if you give me free ships, then I might reconsider ofc. You could've fixed the damned twitch.tv integration that you introduced in the half-baked state (resets resolution to 1024x768, etc) months ago and never touched after that. |
Tren-chance Kumamato
Chaos Crusaders
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:22:49 -
[255] - Quote
The icons look like crap, They were fine they way they were, like most of the other UI changes ccp has made in my time playing. Still prefer the square targeting instead of the round targeting, The square ones fit on the screen better, etc. Wish I could CHOOSE between one or the other..
I don't think I care for the need to change things that were fine to make it look like you're doing something, anything, at all.
*this alt expiring in seven days, main character is already expired many days ago*
\o |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:23:46 -
[256] - Quote
Claymore you do the same mistake with the Tooltips and with the Opportunities - you just ignore the players!
Please just this time make the things right and make an option to use the old icon style! |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
381
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:23:55 -
[257] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Let's see...
Getting rid of 50mm plates and micro shield extenders is good, further tiericide on those modules is good either. BUT. You should have named them Size - codename - fluff name - Armor Plates / Shield Extender. Next step to Sovereignty... I remain hopeful, let's see how it goes. This concludes the positive changes.
Negative changes and absences? ZERO improvements on opportunities, which are direly needed. ZERO improvements on starmap, which are direly needed.
Overview icons which are not optimized for all UI scales. Overview icons are now IDENTICAL to players and NPCs in shape.
You got a good amount of flak for the previous overview icon "attempts" of yours, and you didn't learn anything of it? Great, now the icons are "hollow" and you got a bit more abstracts into the triangle shapes. But the problem is, that there are too many things that still can be confused with existing overview icons.
So, you don't have any "bracket" and "cross" shaped icons any more? If that really is the case, then this is by all means THREE steps backwards while taking only one step forward. Yes, the ship icons needed an overhaul. No, the direction of the change was not good.
Making frigates now look like mobile depots is like the worst thing ever.
Regarding the star map - there is one improvement that needs to be made - turn off the beta/new map as default. Fortunately there is a fix - go to your settings and turn off the beta/new map. With the beta/new map turned off everything is good.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Lahnius
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:25:59 -
[258] - Quote
omg ... the overview now reminds me of space invaders from 1979 ... this is absolutely horrible ...
someone took a corvette and turned it into a volkswagon. ack! |
gigX
Balkan Mafia Circle-Of-Two
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:26:20 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
The new icons are totally r e t a r d e d and it looks like I`m playing tetris now and not eve online. Is this copy/paste from world of tanks? (Is this Heavy Tank or Tank Destroyer?) What was wrong with old icons? (After 10+ years of playing this game you are changing something that still works and looks ok)
So whats next? Game will look like Minecraft? |
xSlaughtershy
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:27:16 -
[260] - Quote
who the hell QA'd this? Fire this group of employees yesterday. |
|
Slava Gagarin
Space Traffic Control
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:27:38 -
[261] - Quote
Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years.
please change back
people need old icons |
Miss Blueprint
BIueprints
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:28:44 -
[262] - Quote
xSlaughtershy wrote:who the hell QA'd this? Fire this group of employees yesterday.
They just need to learn from their mistakes, and give us an option to change back |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:29:26 -
[263] - Quote
Was it bring your daughter to work day when you did pos mods?
http://i.imgur.com/HwVv8oA.jpg
Dear god... |
Draganica
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:29:55 -
[264] - Quote
I embrace change. Really I do. But the new overview icons are f***ing awful. |
Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:30:20 -
[265] - Quote
my god... i almost got killed by a destroyer.. thought it was a mobile tractor unit was like why is that moving and locking me LMFAO LOL..
plz go back to bracket it was simple easy to use.. |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:31:09 -
[266] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
|
Golemag
Deep Space Explorers Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:31:45 -
[267] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
hey CCP Claymore, as a real world genius and a guy responsible for many improvements in the tech field in the past 20 years, take my 2 cents:
"Sometimes we lose objectivity while in process of bettering ourselves and our products. Inevitably, everyone comes to the point where we have to look back at the first step and see why we started it. Most of the time we come to realize that we didn't have to do anything at all. So you have a choice: - Keep looking forward for the potential of new customer base while leaving all your current customers to leave disappointed. - Step back and make sure you have your consumers on solid ground happy with your product. Then human nature always pushes us to look forward again, this time with new ideas and solid legacy. "
GÇ£Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.GÇ¥ |
Roy Stoneheart
Northstar Patrol
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:32:58 -
[268] - Quote
Muahaha, continue crying about icon change gues. I love to see you cry and not actually do anythinga bout it but cry :D.
Let it sink - all the sudden they are good :D |
haralampijem
Fatal and The rabbit The G0dfathers
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:33:07 -
[269] - Quote
The new icons are awful! |
Mark Onzolov
Revolution in Perfektion
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:34:32 -
[270] - Quote
Hi,
the new icons are a no go for me, sry but on 90% UI-Scale i couldnt identify the icons.
Make an option in the settings for switching between old and new icon style and i believe all players will be happy
Fly safe
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:36:53 -
[271] - Quote
Kaldi Tsukaya wrote:Tough art project when you are given <40 pixels to work with... Only tough when you limit yourself with geometry willingly, which they did. And it's more like 144 pixels to work with. And yes, I do know what I am talking about c: Maybe I bring my very own mockup, if I am not busy any more trying to save little podlings from ragequitting on the game without even passing their trial time.
If you have an UI that allows fixed scaling, then you need to design from the SMALLEST possible UI choice first, and then HANDCRAFT upwards for the next versions. If it looks crisp and good on smallest size, it will look good on larger versions since you have more space to fill pixels with. Going from one size and scale it to smaller and larger sizes is the worst kind of lazy.
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Regarding the star map - there is one improvement that needs to be made - turn off the beta/new map as default. Fortunately there is a fix - go to your settings and turn off the beta/new map. With the beta/new map turned off everything is good. That is a counter-productive statement, and you know it. Evidently, the old map is legacy code, which means no room for improvement. So it has to be rebuilt from scratch in order to get the improvements done that so many people asked for so many years. The new map will be functional in time, but it was a grave mistake to push it as "live default". It would have been better to keep it on beta status and opt-in only. |
Lahnius
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:40:01 -
[272] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:omg ... the overview now reminds me of space invaders from 1979 ... this is absolutely horrible ...
someone took a corvette and turned it into a volkswagon. ack!
i am begging here, PLEASE either change it back or provide option to choose ... this is almost a game breaker for me. |
EpicDouble Facepalm
Trauma Ward Winmatar Republic
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:40:26 -
[273] - Quote
dear ccp im kind of going to have a little moan inevitably you knew there would be people that dislike the new icons yet there was not even an option for keeping them. give the players the choice and im sure there will be a lot less complaints. |
Kione Keikira
Sleepless Guardians Unreachable
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:40:26 -
[274] - Quote
Whatever happened to these? I thought they were an amazing concept for ships, and it fits in well with InterBus SIS. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/ORVAR_1.png
I don't like how the icons are on top of the ships, it's kinda hard to see the actual ship. Instead put the icon to the lower right with a small diamond bracket around the ship so we can gauge distance at a glance. Something like this: http://imgur.com/a/kBLEz
Ship hangar icons need to have the background darker. Some of the ships blend into it, especially the Caldari ones.
The Cerberus and Caracal need something other than a witches nose stuck on the front, make it shorter or something less out of place. Kinda like this: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/reddit/cerberus.jpg
The rendering system does feel improved, and dirt looks pretty awesome on some ships like the Drake / Raven ( or at least I think it's dirt ) since it adds a nice level of detail to them. I still feel like lighting could be improved, ships need to stand out more compared to the spacebox ( skybox ).
Master of being misunderstood.
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StarRanger
Maximus Corp The Volition Cult
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:40:45 -
[275] - Quote
Who the hell created these new overview icons? A kid? What a *** joke! Those are the worst icons i have ever seen in EVE in 13 years. You cant tell the difference between modules, ships or so, it all looks the same stupid way.
A bad move of you CCP, sorry to tell you this.
Gÿà playing with spaceships since 2003, serious business!
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Drammie Askold
Phoibe Enterprises
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:42:09 -
[276] - Quote
I like the new icons, the stargate icon not being circular helps me to pick out a gate from other celestials. Radiate rays on the sun icon is also good. I particularly liked the CONCORD screen icon being a stylised TV!
I had no trouble with the update; my OS is Windows 7, might there be a connection?
I do a fair ammount of scanning and the only trouble I've had with it, so far, is that the target icons sometimes get hidden behind the icons of celestials. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:42:50 -
[277] - Quote
I realized I had a bit of disatisfaction with the Carnyx release. CCP, where are our free party favors for just logging in to a new update? No Genolution head stuff, or one time only vanity ships?
:L
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Bonaventured
Gladius Veritatis Fidelas Constans
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:44:12 -
[278] - Quote
StarRanger wrote:Who the hell created these new overview icons? A kid? What a *** joke! Those are the worst icons i have ever seen in EVE in 13 years. You cant tell the difference between modules, ships or so, it all looks the same stupid way. A bad move of you CCP, sorry to tell you this. Nah, the new icons were created by a CCP DEV who does not play this game. |
Matterall
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:44:39 -
[279] - Quote
Icons are just new - take some time to get used to them. There's no way you will adapt in a few hours.
If they are terrible after 25 hours gametime, then post |
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
192
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:46:57 -
[280] - Quote
After 12 long years of playing this game finally some nice distinctive icons. Thanks CCP.
*Although I do have to say the concept icons looked well better than these ones* |
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pony 1
UK Corp RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:51:29 -
[281] - Quote
The overview is a nightmare when trying to sort out ship types. Why oh Why did you change a system which worked do well. The other icons work well i.e gates wormholes etc. But for the love of ALL plz change ships back to the old way. |
sue Abbott
Logistics Mercenary Core
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:53:12 -
[282] - Quote
WTF have you done to my game play... this sucks ass I am sure you guys dont give ****, thats why there is so many people leaving the game all the time.. you all dont ask to see what we would like for change... some peeps might say yes, some might say no.... If there are more yeses then no.. what you think its no brainer......
ONE DAY CCP YOU WILL ASK BEFORE DOING |
Karsten
LoneWolf Mining
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:53:56 -
[283] - Quote
The new icons on overview and in space are mostly ok but please change the dron icons. A drone must be significant different from a ship. |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
4199
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:55:02 -
[284] - Quote
Yeah I actually love them.
Just tried a mission and it was SOOO refreshing being able to tell a frigate from a destroyer. The single line underneath seems a little too minimal tho when it comes to cruiser vs BC, maybe make those thicker?
Wrecks seem a little busy. Perhaps have the "loot" icon fused into the icon to reduce the number of "internal" lines to deal with. And on that same front jet cans feel busy with a line in the middle. Their original diamond shape would have worked better here. I still need to see how they look different from cans like GSCs, but to separate them you could add chevrons on the outsides of the diamond, maybe make the line thicker or have a double layered outline.
The Drake is a Lie
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SilentAsTheGrave
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
280
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:56:51 -
[285] - Quote
New icons look great!
Buddy Program: If you sign up with my buddy invite link and subscribe with a valid payment method - I will give you 95% of the going rate for PLEX!
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sue Abbott
Logistics Mercenary Core
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 18:56:59 -
[286] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Yeah I actually love them.
Just tried a mission and it was SOOO refreshing being able to tell a frigate from a destroyer. The single line underneath seems a little too minimal tho when it comes to cruiser vs BC, maybe make those thicker?
Wrecks seem a little busy. Perhaps have the "loot" icon fused into the icon to reduce the number of "internal" lines to deal with. And on that same front jet cans feel busy with a line in the middle. Their original diamond shape would have worked better here. I still need to see how they look different from cans like GSCs, but to separate them you could add chevrons on the outsides of the diamond, maybe make the line thicker or have a double layered outline.
[quote=Xercodo]Yeah I actually love them.
Just tried a mission and it was SOOO refreshing being able to tell a frigate from a destroyer. The single line underneath seems a little too minimal tho when it comes to cruiser vs BC, maybe make those thicker?
O them carebears go away |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
8713
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:01:05 -
[287] - Quote
It's not just that the icons are small or whatever, but they are mono, making them harder to see quickly if you don't have the greatest vision. That... color index is removed, which works well within the whole of visual recognition. I'm wondering if this idea came from a non-artist... looks something a programmer would thunk up |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
355
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:06:18 -
[288] - Quote
CCP, once again you have wasted your time on things no one needs, no one asked for, and no one wants. I was already upset with the new interface, totally useless and clumsy. It was typical from you that you continue in this direction instead of adding interesting content to the game. We don't need fluff, especially when it's so messy.
Against all imperialism
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Elly May
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:06:29 -
[289] - Quote
I'm not a fan of the new drone bracket icons in space. It is now much harder to tell drones from ships than it was before. Please consider reverting the drone icon to what it was before or some other change to make it easier to distinguish in space.
Thank you |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:07:12 -
[290] - Quote
Matterall wrote:Icons are just new - take some time to get used to them. There's no way you will adapt in a few hours.
If they are terrible after 25 hours gametime, then post
i have tryed to play whit them on sisi for a week or 2 and u dont get use to them, if u cant see what the icons supposed to be ( i have poor eyesight, its all a blur thats all looks the same ) then u can look at them for 2 years whitout getting use to them
i now have 3 options, 1. never undock and only do market pvp and i hate market pvp 2. get a on screen magnifying glass, yeah that not going to happen, i have never had to use one before and will never use one 3. dont know maybe try to go pro in minesweper
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
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FunGu Arsten
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
81
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:08:04 -
[291] - Quote
Didn't we warn you befoere the release that the new icons are terrible? they clutter the overview and make it worse to actualy identify something...
every F-ing time, why do you even ask SISI feedback when you just ignore it ( hell, who actualy thinks the new icons are good at the ccp office???)
Manditory LET US TURN OFF SH*TICONS, make the option available TY |
Lux Nitor
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:10:51 -
[292] - Quote
New icons are fantastic, thank you so much for constantly improving the eve experience.
My only issue is that the drones are too visually similar to ships. Perhaps if they had smaller, solid bodies with the existing wings?
This raises a request i've had for a while, which is the ability to Hide Friendly Drones from brackets & overview. I want to keep friendly ships, just hide friendly drones. |
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:11:31 -
[293] - Quote
BUG: The camera centering issue with the Blackbird was now extended to the Gallente Shuttle and InterBus Shuttle too, and much more agressively.
Also, all icons are so bright its like the ships are made of crystal, some Caldari ships like the Drake almost can't be distinguished from the grey background, all this brightness is far from representing how the ships actually look.
The Hawk for instance is brownish, but the icon displays it almost white.
|
Almost Hum4n
Almost Human.
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:11:53 -
[294] - Quote
For the sake of all that is good could you please have the new icons an option to switch back to the old much better icons.? I have played around on sisi with the new icons so knew they were coming to TQ but I hate them even more now. |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:13:14 -
[295] - Quote
I am around since 2006 and i never heard somebody say: damn this icons are hard to understand and messy and confusing |
Cervix Thumper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:13:45 -
[296] - Quote
Icons = ATARI |
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:17:07 -
[297] - Quote
FunGu Arsten wrote:Didn't we warn you befoere the release that the new icons are terrible? they clutter the overview and make it worse to actualy identify something...
The new icons follow a pattern and make it much easier to identify the class of a ship, they are not bad at all, you will get used to them shortly. The only old icon I liked more was the Pod one. |
Dr Wackjob
Masters Of The Yunnaverse
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:18:18 -
[298] - Quote
Icons = rubbish, literally hurts my eyes....
Carcal = WTF? is there a model issue here?
everything is just blurred, too much going on...
bad graphical patch
- - - |
DeathBySexy2
State Of The Art Ent.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:18:44 -
[299] - Quote
Please for the love of god CCP give us an option to revert to the old overview icons. The new ones are just plain AWFUL... The intentions are good I guess. But honestly not really needed at all. There is a TYPE column for distinguishing Ship types that worked fine when needed.
There aren't that many different ships and if your not familiar with what there names are or what they can do after a couple months you probably shouldn't be pvping in the first place. Not to mention the NPC icon Change sucks also. now its like battlecruisers look bigger than battleships and much to similar to player ships it's just terrible.
Please just an option to revert to the old icons. That's all we ask. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1655
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:24:00 -
[300] - Quote
Well one hour gameplay, and I have had to stop. The eyestrain with these new icons has actually given me a raging pain behind the eyes.
This is going to be a serious problem.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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DjCiNo
BALTIC AREA Legion of xXDEATHXx
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:25:38 -
[301] - Quote
SRSLY ? why gallente race must be in over in this strange list ? we heave minmatar amarr and now finally caldari and tell me why gallente must be last i dont understand you ccp : / |
FunGu Arsten
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:26:32 -
[302] - Quote
Havenard wrote:FunGu Arsten wrote:Didn't we warn you befoere the release that the new icons are terrible? they clutter the overview and make it worse to actualy identify something... The new icons follow a pattern and make it much easier to identify the class of a ship, they are not bad at all, you will get used to them shortly. The only old icon I liked more was the Pod one.
try doing pvp - hope no npc are on grid(they look so simular), make sure your drone icons are off ( but you need them), you gain no extra info off the icons because you need the shiptype, not the size to determine what you're up agains....
pretty **** is still ****. but its not like ccp gained this info off the testservers right... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=422538
|
Rogan Guild
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:27:54 -
[303] - Quote
The new overview icons look cartoonish and not at all in theme with Eve when playing with graphics optimized for memory or performance. Why are they blurry? Why did we lose the old clean lines? Please bring back the old icons. |
Kreethos
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:28:24 -
[304] - Quote
Alt-tab in space BLAMM client hangs--have to end task.
(alt-tab in station, no problem) |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:29:33 -
[305] - Quote
If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9839
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:29:41 -
[306] - Quote
CCP Claymore + minions, good job on the icons, much much better than the first itteration . pity about the 90% scaling please do look into this (I know you have stated you are but still one more voice and all that).
The ship icons in the hangars are looking a bit ropey , that aside good patch , cheers for the work.
=]|[=
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Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
310
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:30:00 -
[307] - Quote
Update smooth. Launcher flawless. Icons beautiful and functional. Much love to CCP. I win at EVE.
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
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Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:30:32 -
[308] - Quote
Where were the vocal masses when CCP released their dev blog with the icon changes?
I said it three times and I will say it again, the new icons make way more sense than all the old ones.
Space Invaders got it right 20years ago, the military is using it and EvE should use it too it was about time to get some meaningful icons. Next on my list would be better tab structure so I have all the needed "data" available within a blink of an eye. It-¦s not horrible by any means but it could be better.
The thing with the scaling seems to be only real problem here but on 100% they are pretty good. Some slight changes here and there would be nice too but the general route is good. The old icons made no sense and were a pure mess with many ships on grid let alone all the drones.
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:30:49 -
[309] - Quote
Kreethos wrote:Alt-tab in space BLAMM client hangs--have to end task.
(alt-tab in station, no problem)
I'm on a Windows 7 computer, x64, Nvidia Geforce, and alt-tabbing in space without an issue. What are you running? |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:31:41 -
[310] - Quote
The new icons need to go.
Give us the option to disable them if you refuse to take them out.
Koba |
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:33:09 -
[311] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:Where were the vocal masses when CCP released their dev blog with the icon changes?
They were the participants on SiSi, the test server, and the thread concerning this issue was quite long. CCP ignored the testers. I guess SiSi testing doesn't matter if CCP had their mind made up before calling for testers. |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
280
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:33:48 -
[312] - Quote
new overview icons are, **** looks like icon houses flying around in space. shuttle got a larger icon than a rookie ship ... i'd like the old icons back, i.e make the new stuff optional
|
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:34:29 -
[313] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:..... 20years ago, the military is using it and EvE should use it too it was about time to get some meaningful icons. Next on my list would be...
The military icons make sense. These do not.
Here are the ones the Navy uses:
https://awacstacsim.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/20130130-091207.jpg
GET RID OF THE NEW ICONS !!! Seven years of visual cues and muscle memory down the drain.
Koba |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9839
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:34:30 -
[314] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.
You can take your foot out of your mouth now.
=]|[=
|
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:35:15 -
[315] - Quote
FunGu Arsten wrote: try doing pvp - hope no npc are on grid(they look so simular)
You must be colorblind. |
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH Circle-Of-Two
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:35:41 -
[316] - Quote
Holy **** that caracal looks awesome ....as for the rest lemme check. BTW CCP ty for updating this awesome game !!!! |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
78
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:35:51 -
[317] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now.
yea and they made it worse god knows how |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1658
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:38:35 -
[318] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now.
But the issues raised by the players were equally applicable in the second iteration, the problem was NOT that the players did not like the aesthetics, the problem was one of clarity and legibility, and the problems are still present.
THAT was the feedback that was not dealt with. We were almost begging them to get professional advice.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9841
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:38:58 -
[319] - Quote
Tyr Dolorem wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now. yea and they made it worse god knows how Did you see the first one's?
=]|[=
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Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:39:15 -
[320] - Quote
Strip out the new icons. Wasn't broken, didn't need fixing.
Give us the option to at least disable them.
I blame Iceland. All of it. |
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Unbreakble Dragon
Freedom Express Yokai
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:39:51 -
[321] - Quote
Blood Enslaver wrote:You people really are afraid of learning new things.
Honestly everything looks fine to me, and i have no problem learning new things. i patched in like 3 minutes had no problems logging in either but im running windows 7 and internet connection of 188 mb/s download speed
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Enddel Ayere
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:40:09 -
[322] - Quote
I really like the new shader. The light is more balanced and the dirt texture is very cool. Indirect lightning make it really realistic. Congrats.
There seems to be some issue with texture loading though, sometimes ships and interior of stations appear all black (ie without texture). The ships regain their texture but the not station interior, which interfere with ship fitting.
Concerning the icons, its a great set people will get used to it, maybe it could be made better by three things (esp. for the ship icons)
1. graphically, the dash underneath the triangle is difficult to read 2. the battlecruiser icon look too much like a house. this is debatable but a triangle on a square is a symbol of a house... abit confusing. 3. differentiating NPC and player icons would be great, so that at gates (or else) there is no confusion
Looking forward to the new Nullsec system! |
Zaporozh
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:40:59 -
[323] - Quote
Undo the new Icons, they are terrible. Icons were not broken work on something that needs fixing!!!!! |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2455
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:41:19 -
[324] - Quote
nobody mentioned corpse icons from any of the devblogs i can remember, yet here i sit, pleasantly surprised. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9841
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:42:24 -
[325] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now. But the issues raised by the players were equally applicable in the second iteration, the problem was NOT that the players did not like the aesthetics, the problem was one of clarity and legibility, and the problems are still present. Only at 90%, they are perfectly legible otherwise.
The issue is they're new and you are constantly registering and interpreting them, give it a week and you won't even see them anymore.
=]|[=
|
Mikey Zonda
Island Assault Force Fortuna Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:42:52 -
[326] - Quote
Please roll back the icon release, these new ones are just terrible....
Clustered, confusing, awful and an unnecessary and unrequested change....
Just dump them in the bad idea bin..........
|
Chinicata Shihari
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:43:06 -
[327] - Quote
The the Overview tags look like ass (Technical Term) on 90% scaling http://i.imgur.com/66t79wt.png |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:44:07 -
[328] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
There is a thread from Test Server Feedback, that has plenty of feedback on the icon revamp. Not to be too snarky (serious effort needed, even in RL I communicate in snark and sarcasm!) but perhaps there would be a positive place to start reading feedback on the new icons and brackets. There is less outrage and more constructive suggestions than this General Feedback thread.
Please at least give us, the unwashed end user masses, an opt out choice as is in place with the map.
Thankee sai in advance for that personally needed opt out choice.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1658
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:45:19 -
[329] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now. But the issues raised by the players were equally applicable in the second iteration, the problem was NOT that the players did not like the aesthetics, the problem was one of clarity and legibility, and the problems are still present. Only at 90%, they are perfectly legible otherwise. The issue is they're new and you are constantly registering and interpreting them, give it a week and you won't even see them anymore.
No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% we have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Desas
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:48:22 -
[330] - Quote
Are you guys out of your mind with those new Icons???
Do you devs got to many time on your hands that your are screwing around with unnecessary new stuff which was perfectly fine like it was???
Come on you got on both iterrations a lot of negative feedback from the community and you still went with it ... Did you forget who is paying your sallerys??
Make it atleast an option to choose or roll it back !!
An very upset Desas |
|
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9842
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:48:35 -
[331] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now. But the issues raised by the players were equally applicable in the second iteration, the problem was NOT that the players did not like the aesthetics, the problem was one of clarity and legibility, and the problems are still present. Only at 90%, they are perfectly legible otherwise. The issue is they're new and you are constantly registering and interpreting them, give it a week and you won't even see them anymore. No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% we have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO. Read my post again, the issue is only with the 90% scaling.
That aside you should probably see an optician or stop drinking on Monday night's.
=]|[=
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1660
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:51:02 -
[332] - Quote
Reported above as abusive troll
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:51:14 -
[333] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:Matterall wrote:Icons are just new - take some time to get used to them. There's no way you will adapt in a few hours.
If they are terrible after 25 hours gametime, then post i have tryed to play whit them on sisi for a week or 2 and u dont get use to them, if u cant see what the icons supposed to be ( i have poor eyesight, its all a blur thats all looks the same ) then u can look at them for 2 years whitout getting use to them i now have 3 options, 1. never undock and only do market pvp and i hate market pvp 2. get a on screen magnifying glass, yeah that not going to happen, i have never had to use one before and will never use one 3. dont know maybe try to go pro in minesweper
Quote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Ralph King-Griffin wrote: Joia Crenca wrote: If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.
You can take your foot out of your mouth now.
But the issues raised by the players were equally applicable in the second iteration, the problem was NOT that the players did not like the aesthetics, the problem was one of clarity and legibility, and the problems are still present.
Only at 90%, they are perfectly legible otherwise.
The issue is they're new and you are constantly registering and interpreting them, give it a week and you won't even see them anymore. =]|[=
Doesn't seem to work even after a week for some, but we'll see what happens. And it wasn't 'ROLLED BACK', just repolished more on SiSi, from what I'm reading? So player feedback did cause some additional focus, but didn't stop the train from crashing into the station. |
Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:52:42 -
[334] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone.You can take your foot out of your mouth now. But the issues raised by the players were equally applicable in the second iteration, the problem was NOT that the players did not like the aesthetics, the problem was one of clarity and legibility, and the problems are still present. Only at 90%, they are perfectly legible otherwise. The issue is they're new and you are constantly registering and interpreting them, give it a week and you won't even see them anymore. No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% but the problem is NOT limited to that. We have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, and it is not a matter of familiarity. the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour tonight is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO.
So maybe there is no problem with the icons but your eyes, screen, resolution or whatever?
I am playing EvE on maxed out settings, with transparent windows, at 100% and it looks good. The icons inside my tabs could get a bit more love like sharper edges and stuff like that but in space they are fine and pretty damn useful. But to the defense of all these "nay sayers" I am used to such icons for a long time so that is one reason why I like and prefer them. But besides that, everything that makes sense is something I prefer. Making sense in the meaning of being logical and in this case not exhausting for my eyes or in the constantly overloading me with useless informations.
|
|
CCP Surge
C C P C C P Alliance
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:53:22 -
[335] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.
The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.
And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue.
In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment.
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? |
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:54:01 -
[336] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:[quote=Ralph King-Griffin][quote=Ralph King-Griffin][quote=Joia Crenca]If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
(truncated quote)
No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% we have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO. Read my post again, the issue is only with the 90% scaling. That aside you should probably see an optician or stop drinking on Monday night's.
I have to ask: Where were you in Incarna? A CCP Patriot, or one of us Jita Statue Shooting Traitors? (If you're going to get personal... I'll match it)
|
Lahnius
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:54:59 -
[337] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:[quote=epicurus ataraxia][quote=Ralph King-Griffin][quote=Joia Crenca]If there is a culture issue at CCP, perhaps that needs to be addressed? There may be a thought that: 'If the work is finished enough to put on SiSi, then it CAN'T be rolled back, or someone will lose their job for allowing it to go this far'. But that would defeat one main purpose of SiSi, wouldn't it, in having an internal culture issue cancel out player feedback?
No, you are quite wrong. They are much worse at 90% but the problem is NOT limited to that. We have worked with them for quite a while on sisi, and it is not a matter of familiarity. the issue is one of bad legibiliy. I and others no doubt envy your eyesight, and I assure you the stabbing pain behind my eyes after playing for an hour tonight is something I AM NOT WILLING TO GET USED TO. CCP when your design choices start causing physical harm to your customers, isn't it about time you stopped and reevaluated your choices?
i havent even played for an hour with the new icons and my eyes are sore.
the game just feels awkward now, and no this isnt something i could ever get used to ... as much as i really hate to say this, the icons stay and i gotta go ... im not into paying to play a game that causes me physical pain.
thanks but no thanks. |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:55:21 -
[338] - Quote
I am sure this is a fine release. But.
The icons?!? Why? Please tell us why, CCP?
Because change is a quality in itself? It is not, I can tell you.
Actully, in my opinion the icons themselves are fine. But they are new and we all now have to learn new icons for no reason whatsoever other than you just couldn't help changing something.
|
Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH Circle-Of-Two
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:55:28 -
[339] - Quote
Captain Africa wrote:Holy **** that caracal looks awesome ....as for the rest lemme check. BTW CCP ty for updating this awesome game !!!!
Rely people lol what are you complaining about ...icons are just fine. For the first time you can actually see whats ploting at a first glance. Icons are sweet ....there will always be haters. Lol and they get followed like sheep. |
Tomski Ruslav
Hull Breach.
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:55:49 -
[340] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:
All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.
Did u guys actually stop to look at how outposts look now? its freaking horrible, to the point that there wouldnt be a need for outposts to actually have any look at all, cause all u see are the rings.
One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.
|
|
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
299
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:56:01 -
[341] - Quote
In B4 CCP realizes that all goons were ordered to give two thumbs up for bad icons before making their permanent pilgrimage to h1z1. Grr goons n all. |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
121
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:56:41 -
[342] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
Hello CCP Surge!
Some of us appear to be playing on laptop screens, so they may be having to go to 90% to fit everything onto the screen?
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:59:05 -
[343] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:CCP Surge wrote: Redacted Hello CCP Surge! Some of us appear to be playing on laptop screens, so they may be having to go to 90% to fit everything onto the screen?
Or just smaller desktop displays in general.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1660
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 19:59:18 -
[344] - Quote
If EVE online wishes to state prior to purchase that this game is only suitable for people under the age of thirty, then of course they are entitled to limit their playerbase. And of course refund all who can no longer play it.
If however they wish to have players, over thirty who all at some point have a stiffening of the eye muscles, and hardening of the iris/eyeball making their new icons an excercise in eye strain, then they should take account of the opthalmic advice they commissioned.
They did take advice before completely changing the visual aspects of the game? Didn't they? Laptops? Ah! Didn't think of that!
Oops.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Urduri
Chaotic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:03:29 -
[345] - Quote
The overview icons are horrible. With the slight astigmatism I have in each eye, I have a difficult time telling just what I'm looking at. Most have turned into fuzzy look-alike shadowy blobs. The previous icons were clear and obvious. *sigh* |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:05:03 -
[346] - Quote
Urduri wrote:The overview icons are horrible. With the slight astigmatism I have in each eye, I have a difficult time telling just what I'm looking at. Most have turned into fuzzy look-alike shadowy blobs. The previous icons were clear and obvious. *sigh* Same boat.. I suffer from a bad astigmatism and sometimes the icons aren't 100% clear
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Ashlar Maidstone
Moonfyre Science and Research Inc.
187
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:05:06 -
[347] - Quote
New icons are very hard to read. Have to second guess those.
Launcher STILL NOT fixed, I done everything I could in that department.
Other than previous posters it's ok for now.... |
Mael Chalbi
Dark-Rising
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:05:42 -
[348] - Quote
Please please, return the old overview, this horrible, cant deal with this crap or at least give us the option of the old overview |
Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:06:31 -
[349] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:If EVE online wishes to state prior to purchase that this game is only suitable for people under the age of thirty, then of course they are entitled to limit their playerbase. And of course refund all who can no longer play it.
If however they wish to have players, over thirty who all at some point have a stiffening of the eye muscles, and hardening of the iris/eyeball making their new icons an excercise in eye strain, then they should take account of the opthalmic advice they commissioned.
They did take advice before completely changing the visual aspects of the game? Didn't they? Laptops? Ah! Didn't think of that!
Oops.
I am over 30 and I don-¦t have any problems at all. Your reaction to these icons is something I would worry about at the very least. Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don-¦t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure. Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you-¦re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9842
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:07:11 -
[350] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? Screen real estate is limited, fitting everything whilst keeping a cleanish ui sort of necessitates it.
An example,at 100% scaling I have trouble fitting all that without it overlapping
Edit: derp, my apologies for the poor quality img there,on my phone and iss all I could find
=]|[=
|
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1665
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:07:27 -
[351] - Quote
Urduri wrote:The overview icons are horrible. With the slight astigmatism I have in each eye, I have a difficult time telling just what I'm looking at. Most have turned into fuzzy look-alike shadowy blobs. The previous icons were clear and obvious. *sigh*
And because they are moving or swapping position, the eye tracking to try to see the smaller icons is awful! No glasses can account for that, without moving the head!
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Taru Audeles
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:09:10 -
[352] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far.
It's not like a million people told you it's a bad idea to sneak them in without any information before the release. This is the best example of what is wrong within CCP. Your devblog from february has COMPLETLY different icons in the picture. Even in the patch notes you hind it in a wall of text in the UI section. Just roll it back fix the issues and do a dev blog explain and talk to your players. Let them play with it for some time of singularity and let them watch the pictures.
But to drop it like this without an annoucement/warning and dev blog is just asking for trouble. You ask us to give it time and get used to them. Well we need to get something done until this happens. Roll this BS back and give us the time to get used to them. The game is completly unplayable for "some" people for the next couple of days/weeks.
You guys at CCP have really learned nothing. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1665
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:09:15 -
[353] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:If EVE online wishes to state prior to purchase that this game is only suitable for people under the age of thirty, then of course they are entitled to limit their playerbase. And of course refund all who can no longer play it.
If however they wish to have players, over thirty who all at some point have a stiffening of the eye muscles, and hardening of the iris/eyeball making their new icons an excercise in eye strain, then they should take account of the opthalmic advice they commissioned.
They did take advice before completely changing the visual aspects of the game? Didn't they? Laptops? Ah! Didn't think of that!
Oops. I am over 30 and I don-¦t have any problems at all. Your reaction to these icons is something I would worry about at the very least. Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don-¦t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure. Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you-¦re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them.
All good advice regarding eye care and reducing eye strain, but it does not solve the problem that the icons are not designed for legibility, especially when moving.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Ryan TheRandomHero Dunn
The Northern J3WS Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:09:37 -
[354] - Quote
Please reverse the overview icons.
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Twistedboy SICK
15's GaNg BaNg TeAm
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:09:58 -
[355] - Quote
Return our old overview please!!!
The new one sux
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
122
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:11:40 -
[356] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:CCP Surge wrote: Redacted Hello CCP Surge! Some of us appear to be playing on laptop screens, so they may be having to go to 90% to fit everything onto the screen? Or just smaller desktop displays in general.
Dino Zavr wrote:Dear CCP,
In my understanding that is the issue: The new space-invaders style overview sprites are horrible. My screen is only 1366x768 so I have to use 90% UI scale and with this settings they look awful May I, please, wonder how in the Universe no single developer had wondered to try 90% UI scale BEFORE official patch release? Or maybe you are happy with this complete mess?
Is it possible to roll back to pre-Carnyx overview brackets and icons, please?
Thanks
This was in the issues thread, so yes, that was what I was thinking, thanks! |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:12:14 -
[357] - Quote
Return old icons or give a chance to swtich |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:13:17 -
[358] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:
I am over 30 and I don-¦t have any problems at all. Your reaction to these icons is something I would worry about at the very least. Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don-¦t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure. Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you-¦re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them.
Not everyone can afford top of the line hardware or high end displays.
While I myself have a 3x27" set up that can run the game with all options on decent settings, I know there are alot of my alliance & corp mates that aren't as fortunate and run on smaller displays or laptops. The devs need to look at all use cases when designing major changes like this as it will impact everyone differently.
The scaling issue is a problem and also take in to account the clarity of the new icons on a smaller form factor and you may run into issues with strain... just a fact of life that not everyone is running at the same level and this needs to be accounted for IMO.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Weed Greens
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:14:57 -
[359] - Quote
Change the overview to the old icons, what is this - wrecks now are ships >?!?!!? |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
123
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:20:00 -
[360] - Quote
Also, to include other issues, (not that I want to be podded), but pod killmails are either missing or very delayed? |
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Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:20:49 -
[361] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Trajan Unknown wrote:
I am over 30 and I don-¦t have any problems at all. Your reaction to these icons is something I would worry about at the very least. Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don-¦t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure. Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you-¦re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them.
Not everyone can afford top of the line hardware or high end displays. While I myself have a 3x27" set up that can run the game with all options on decent settings, I know there are alot of my alliance & corp mates that aren't as fortunate and run on smaller displays or laptops. The devs need to look at all use cases when designing major changes like this as it will impact everyone differently. The scaling issue is a problem and also take in to account the clarity of the new icons on a smaller form factor and you may run into issues with strain... just a fact of life that not everyone is running at the same level and this needs to be accounted for IMO.
Well, you have to be able to afford a good screen else simply scrap playing games for your own good. That aside 23" should be more than enough to play on. I am running a 23" as a second screen and it-¦s fine with EvE. If you-¦re playing on a notebook regularly than there is the major problem. My wife is using her-¦s to play all kind of RPGs and whatnot but we bought it with that in mind. A casual notebook is simply not suited to play games on even if the hardware supports it somewhat.
But as I mentioned earlier, the icons could be a bit sharper over all but that-¦s it. |
PsychoBitch
Playboy Enterprises Dark Taboo
459
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:22:56 -
[362] - Quote
New Icons = AWFUL |
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:23:01 -
[363] - Quote
It was obvious what the class of ship was by the size of icon, now, wtf is it???
Very poor Dev thinking or was there any?? Extremely poor design process here, purpose of icon lost through arty farty concept cr......
Would like the option to switch back to old icons, or simply roll back to old icons...
X3 springs to mind..... |
Bladeburner
Minmatar Death Squad
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:25:06 -
[364] - Quote
Played Eve since 2007, this is my First post on changes made by CCP.
What was you thinking with these bulky / ugly icons, you have made changes to graphics and Shader, which is all fine and good if it wasn't dominated by massive / ugly icons.
Why is it CCP always change things in EVE that aren't broken, no one had issues with icons before and now you have made changes and it looks like most of the feedback is negative.
All i can see in local now is bulky icons which look like they belong in the 80s.
Thankyou CCP. |
fonz bonner
Lords of Ice and Fire Milk Of The Poppy
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:26:46 -
[365] - Quote
I am having quite a few issues. keeps going into not responding status.
when previewing a ship they no longer instantly load very delayed take about 30 seconds to load graphics.
same with when docking the ship graphics loading is very delayed.
On a plus note the icons look great especially like for example on a asteroid belt their different sizes depending on the size of the asteroid |
Presidente Gallente
Dark-Rising
167
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:27:08 -
[366] - Quote
Learning and adapting as usual. Back to EVE... |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:27:26 -
[367] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I have been running clients with 90% UI scaling (not for the moment though) for real estate reasons. To get more "free" view to space.
/Sissy F
|
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative.
404
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:28:26 -
[368] - Quote
I think my biggest issue with the icons currently, is the inability to tell what's a Friendly NPC and what's a Player at Stargates, didn't really notice it testing on SiSi because I never saw another player in space. It would be nice to at least have the NPCs able to be set to a different colour in states or similar change. |
Gabriel Ironfist
Free Bacon. Reverberation Project
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:29:49 -
[369] - Quote
New Ship - Thank you guys!!! New Caracal model - Looks badass and the list goes on.... but,
unfortunately the first thing that you see is the overview Icons. I cant say all are bad. I love the new Biomass icon and the drones looks like space invaders but man some of them are terrible... especially for people who have been playing for ages....
Ship Icons.... Really Really bad.... makes no sense... Wreck Icons - Confusing as hell... why have 4 different Icons..... Cyno - it is the same as the new high sec abandonned thingy icon.... Sun - Looks like a sun but we are so used to having it filled up gets on my nerves... Belt -¦cons..... belt is a belt..... why have so many different ones... the name states the size anyways.... While you were at it I thing you should have painted the planet Icons to their respective colors....
We needed the overview settings fixed... such as the HTML color codes, bold italic etc.... maybe a way to have more tabs than 5... getting the states to work in a more sensible ways..
I was not a big fan of the menu bar Icon changes but they are not too bad and were easy to get used to....but these are terrible
I appreciate the ammount of work that has gone into the background work and all the new features but changing the look and feel of the game so abruptly when you have such a wide base of players is a mistake.... at least put an option for old players to use the old icons.... like the new starmap.... just do not take the old starmap out.... so much easier to scan... the low gravity effect on the new starmap scanning is ridicilus. you are pinpointing something (trying to ) and the screen keeps spinning....
|
Kaervek Dalani
Starcade Group Elemental Tide
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:32:08 -
[370] - Quote
Overview icons are really bad.
Here are some alternatives I whipped up in 5 minutes in MS Paint: http://prntscr.com/7ce8nw Feel free to use them. :)
Also, the inventory ship icons are weird looking now. Like, the ships lost their detail: http://prntscr.com/7ceakf I'd recommend trying to increase the brightness and contrast of the backgrounds, but not the ship.
Kaervek
|
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Mark Onzolov
Revolution in Perfektion
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:32:10 -
[371] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I have been running clients with 90% UI scaling (not for the moment though) for real estate reasons. To get more "free" view to space. /Sissy F
/sign!
|
DexterShark
The Night Watchmen The Bastion
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:32:44 -
[372] - Quote
Two things:-
- I am not sure why all the station services have a circle around them. Presumably this is the Entosis counter, which is fine if those services are being contested, but it displays all the time. Can you confirm that this is a bug to be ironed out?
- I am 50/50 about the overview icons, personally, but I don't understand why you didn't introduce the new overview icons as an opt-in / opt-out Beta, so that you can then tweak / respond to feedback. It worked great for the new starmap and notifications system. Why not for the icons? |
Frostys Virpio
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1849
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:34:08 -
[373] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:Dominous Nolen wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:CCP Surge wrote: Redacted Hello CCP Surge! Some of us appear to be playing on laptop screens, so they may be having to go to 90% to fit everything onto the screen? Or just smaller desktop displays in general. Dino Zavr wrote:Dear CCP,
In my understanding that is the issue: The new space-invaders style overview sprites are horrible. My screen is only 1366x768 so I have to use 90% UI scale and with this settings they look awful May I, please, wonder how in the Universe no single developer had wondered to try 90% UI scale BEFORE official patch release? Or maybe you are happy with this complete mess?
Is it possible to roll back to pre-Carnyx overview brackets and icons, please?
Thanks This was in the issues thread, so yes, that was what I was thinking, thanks!
If I was to take a guess on that, I would guess they are using big screens so they don't need the UI scaling. I could be wrong but I have yet to see game devs, especially the art department which would see such stuff since they work on it, work on anything but high-end monitors... |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:35:19 -
[374] - Quote
Dradis Aulmais wrote:Niraia wrote:I don't know what all these new icons mean. I don't see why I should have to learn them after using the old ones with no problems for 10 years. So CCP should just stop changing ? Let's roll back everything to year one.
What a dumb remark.
|
Total Newbie
Patriotic Tendencies Executive Outcomes
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:38:00 -
[375] - Quote
Have to agree with the majority. The overview graphics are horrible.
The structures are ok, but the ship Icons and the Rat icons are too hard to differentiate...........
Useability trumps graphics. |
Nemesis DCC
Dead Crow Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:38:57 -
[376] - Quote
Is there a way to fix the launcher not and game not responding issue? Seems to have utterly failed to launch the game since the new release! |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
249
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:42:40 -
[377] - Quote
I also hate new icons, very confusing and misleading. Old icons were simple and easy, now we get 10000 variations of something that doesn't even look right.
I want an option back, so player can choose: 1. Use Simple icons 2. Use 100000 variations icons
Example: Agent in space looks like a bright star.
|
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:43:59 -
[378] - Quote
Nemesis DCC wrote:Is there a way to fix the launcher not and game not responding issue? Seems to have utterly failed to launch the game since the new release!
Hate to ask: Have you tried rebooting?
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
250
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:46:45 -
[379] - Quote
I have the same problem with 1920x1200 plus icons look confusing. Agent in space looks like a big shining star. |
Lucho IYI
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:48:16 -
[380] - Quote
new icons are terrible |
|
Nemesis DCC
Dead Crow Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:48:29 -
[381] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:Nemesis DCC wrote:Is there a way to fix the launcher not and game not responding issue? Seems to have utterly failed to launch the game since the new release! Hate to ask: Have you tried rebooting?
Yes I have tried. Just nothing seems to work. The game starts and just goes to Not Responding Mode. Then the launcher follows. Everything was fine until Carnyx!! |
Saeth Thara
Blue Printers Cooperative
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:49:52 -
[382] - Quote
I'm also having trouble with the new icons, at least for player ships i'm finding it much harder to work out what things are. While im guessing some people will like the new ones, can we not have an option to use the old ones? |
ArabelIa
Rise 0f Tangra GaNg BaNg TeAm
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:50:17 -
[383] - Quote
new icons are awful ugly and terrible. x for returning old ones!! |
Ravcharas
Infinite Point Nulli Secunda
408
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:51:50 -
[384] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? I'm trying real hard not to be flippant or bitter here but why are you asking these question AFTER you roll out new icons?
I use 90% UI scaling because this game might as well be called "Eve Online; We hope you like windows" -- screen real estate is a huge issue. |
Don Matteo
Fortuna Executive Fortuna Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:54:27 -
[385] - Quote
Why? Why? CCP should I have to learn the new icons? To please you???
These new ones are terrible, you've even crossed the meaning of simler old and new icons... Madness, Its like swapping the positions of the clutch and brake pedal... Absolute madness and pointless, and brings nothing to the game other than confusion...
Go back to the old icons and stop this change for changes sake thinking...
|
Alhira Katserna
Katserna Corporation
139
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:58:05 -
[386] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
My reason is mostly that i need much space for all my windows i always need in ship. Some are stacked but this is not always possible/a good idea.
Is it maybe a possible fix to write a "little" workaround that takes action when UI scaling is on 90% that the overview icons not just get downscaled but instead replaced with 90% smaller icons. You can just shrink the actual ones about 90% and take look if they still look good ingame. |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
265
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:59:28 -
[387] - Quote
Hope CCP can sift the number of real humans on this thread...
I suspect a lot of those new icons tears are coming from different alts of the same people
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
252
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 20:59:48 -
[388] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? I am using 90% scaled because i see more objects / ships / npc's in overview, The more you see the better you defend / kill npc's..
|
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:00:25 -
[389] - Quote
Nemesis DCC wrote:Sissy Fuzz wrote:Nemesis DCC wrote:Is there a way to fix the launcher not and game not responding issue? Seems to have utterly failed to launch the game since the new release! Hate to ask: Have you tried rebooting? Yes I have tried. Just nothing seems to work. The game starts and just goes to Not Responding Mode. Then the launcher follows. Everything was fine until Carnyx!!
Run the launcher and try clearing the cache. Under Advanced tab use 'Clear all cached data'. If that doesn't work run the 'EVE Repair Tool' on the same tab.
/Sissy F
|
Goatman NotMyFault
Lubrication Industries Fortis Et Certus
193
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:02:11 -
[390] - Quote
"New systems are available that can be accessed via the Unidentified wormholes. (Unidentified wormholes can be found in systems that contain the Jove Observatory)"
Is the New system in W-Space or K-Space?? |
|
Dani Lizardov
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:02:13 -
[391] - Quote
Too many triangles I do not like the new icons. Thx CCP after 5 years I have to learn the overview again.
|
quiki1
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:03:05 -
[392] - Quote
OMG. What a fail. Bring back the old icons. |
Walkyier
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:03:43 -
[393] - Quote
tell ya what the cerb looks bad ass !!!
overview icons take a little getting used to |
Porucznik Borewicz
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:04:59 -
[394] - Quote
OK, so after an actual elite PVP fleet I have some more feedback regarding the new overview icons / brackets. Apart from the fact that the drones Xes need to come back, because the new ones look just silly and clutter the view anyway, there is one major issue with the new icons - they are unreadable when no standings / background colours are set towards an neutral player you are fighting. Stuff just looks too much the same. And the more things you have apart player ships on your OV the more you are screwed. The new icons are OK-ish in a way. You could get used to them. We just need a more "at a glance" way to tell the player controlled ships in space. Like a colour maybe. Making the player ships green for instance would help me a lot. And I bet a lot of colour blind people would also welcome the option to change player ships colour. Right now, everything on the OV that is not a waypoint object (stargate, station) has the same colour. The other way would be reverting the old brackets for player ships.
TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
146
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:05:38 -
[395] - Quote
All the NPC icons floating in space look like player icons, they are not distinct enough, like they used to be. A white symbol with just a touch of 'white' in the center does not work. Like we told you in the SiSi thread. Soo many other points, but they have been covered time and again in that same SiSi thread. Please revert this. |
Total Newbie
Patriotic Tendencies Executive Outcomes
80
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:10:26 -
[396] - Quote
I am actually quite tired of CCP people asking why people turn up or down their scaling....
It's called preference.... CHOICE.....
Not everyone who plays eve is a technogeek ( I say that in loving terms BTW)
Some of us are just regular schlubs, who want to play a USABLE game.
We don't want eye strain to try to figure out WTF it is we are seeing....
We don't want to buy the latest and greatest graphics card......
Why does everything evolve around "Golly Gee, look how pretty" rather than...... Hey, I can actually differentiate and see something?
|
Jellyfish Original
Dawn Expeditionary Force
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:12:24 -
[397] - Quote
The new icons look like that they are hand drawn, and I'm staring at a terrible painting when I play... |
Daemun Khanid
Sanctus Imperialis
82
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:13:07 -
[398] - Quote
I like the changes. After years of staring at the same UI its nice to see something new. I'll never understand ppls adversity to change.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Asarian Yahnid
Highly Inappropriate
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:13:32 -
[399] - Quote
New icons are Horrid. Ship preview icons are all gold.
You guys need to learn the old saying "if it aint broke, dont fix it".
Overview icons worked fine... No change needed.
Ship thumbnails..... Looked fine... No change needed.
Horrid Update. |
chmeee kzin
Raging Main Zero Fux.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:14:36 -
[400] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:[quote=Joia Crenca]
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I know many who UI downscale either due to screen size, G-card limitations, or many who try and stuff way to many dialogue boxes onto the screen.
CCP Claymore and team, don't take the overview icon issue to hard. I'm sure changes where well intended. Remember, the road to hell ( volcanoes for you Icelandic folk ) is paved with good intentions.
Everything else with Carnyx is awesome, love the new skins, rendering, ship looks ( Jackdaw will take some getting used too, looks like a flying cell phone tower ), module-cides, etc. Good job!
Serious question... How does CCP determine the initial price on BPO's for new modules? is there some market forecasting meta or such that is used? 200 mil for entosis link BPO seems kinda high considering its function. Do you set a NPC market high/low limit price on BPO.s? ( not player driven market price in other words ). |
|
Total Newbie
Patriotic Tendencies Executive Outcomes
80
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:15:07 -
[401] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:I like the changes. After years of staring at the same UI its nice to see something new. I'll never understand ppls adversity to change.
This is CCP mentality... change for the sake of change.....
How about USABLE |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
726
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:15:25 -
[402] - Quote
Icons are ****.
Sorry CCP, but while some icons, like for POS mods, are OK, the main ship and drone icons are TERRIBLE.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with old icons to be honest; you could tweak a few here and there, but to change rats from crosses to whatever unholy mess this is, is just bullcrap.
Now i cant tell a battleship sleeper apart from a cruiser of a frigate sleeper. Its just bullcrap. |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:17:13 -
[403] - Quote
there i was gettin targetted by a tractor unit oh no wait it is actually a ship these icons suck ccp 12 years around n thats what u guys come up with is it to take attention of the new map or somthing 2 updates later the map still sucks n nothing has changed besides then the icons |
Steijn
Quay Industries
701
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:19:31 -
[404] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:I like the changes. After years of staring at the same UI its nice to see something new. I'll never understand ppls adversity to change.
peoples complaints are nothing to do with change and everything to do with useability. |
|
CCP Surge
C C P C C P Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:19:50 -
[405] - Quote
Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with.
For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
|
|
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
729
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:21:30 -
[406] - Quote
Can you please let me turn off new icons for rats, sleepers and ships, and revert to the old set? |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
146
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:21:34 -
[407] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones.
We are reading the feedback you are providing.
All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.
We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling.
We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns.
Thank you for all your feedback so far.
That is your answer to ALL of the solid feedback from the SiSi thread? Incase you lost the linky for said thread
You guys are terrible....answer the hard questions like why we need to see small medium, and large belt rocks...? Atleast make another pass through that thread and tell us why our feedback was not used please. Some people put some serious time into giving it to you, it would be wise to not just blow them off simply because it hurts your pride.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
701
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:24:42 -
[408] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
my patience has lasted for around 8 hours since DT, it wont be getting tried again until something drastic is changed. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11193
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:25:11 -
[409] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:I like the changes. After years of staring at the same UI its nice to see something new. I'll never understand ppls adversity to change.
Adversity to change has nothing to do with anything. Give us good changes and watch the complaining not happen.
I'll personally underastand people who advocate change for nothing more than the sake of change. If it ain't broke..... |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
252
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:25:32 -
[410] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. I've been trying that since they came out on sisi, I did extensive pve/pvp on sisi test server and it's getting worse every day, at 90% scaled UI it's horrible.
|
|
mne lee
Viziam Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:27:16 -
[411] - Quote
WTF just bring back the old icons you realy have screwed the game |
xSlaughtershy
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:28:10 -
[412] - Quote
When things like Carnyx happens, it fills me with confidence that I will find a good job in the graphic arts community. Not because Carnyx is an inspiring piece of work, but rather when the work quality and effort put into the Carnyx icons can pass into a live update, I feel that I would be able to land a graphics job anywhere. That is, of course, if I can manage to spell my full name correctly. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11195
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:29:22 -
[413] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:CCP Claymore wrote: That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones.
We are reading the feedback you are providing.
All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.
We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling.
We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns.
Thank you for all your feedback so far.
That is your answer to ALL of the solid feedback from the SiSi thread? Incase you lost the linky for said threadYou guys are terrible....answer the hard questions like why we need to see small medium, and large belt rocks...? Atleast make another pass through that thread and tell us why our feedback was not used please. Some people put some serious time into giving it to you, it would be wise to not just blow them off simply because it hurts your pride.
That's the worst part of it, people gave CCP feedback and that was ignored. I am at least encouraged by the fact that they will consider "classic icons". If they do implement classic icons, for me personally the space invader icons will go the way of the Captains Quarters (ie technically still there but I wouldn't know it because I never use it). |
Don Matteo
Fortuna Executive Fortuna Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:30:36 -
[414] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
I urge you to drop the new icons, there is no need for this change... As my brain is simple and can understand bigger and smaller, however different shapes??? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16467
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:33:41 -
[415] - Quote
I guess I'm the only one who kind of likes the new icons?
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
|
Total Newbie
Patriotic Tendencies Executive Outcomes
86
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:35:07 -
[416] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
I still don't understand your insistence that this even needed a change. You guys keep asking us "Why"? How about you guys give us some reasoning behind the change, other than granularity. WTF is that? Catch phrases don't create.....
Next thing you know you're going to use "transparent".....
You are killing your player base one silly change at a time. THAT is the bottom line.
|
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CCP Surge
C C P C C P Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:35:53 -
[417] - Quote
Porucznik Borewicz wrote:OK, so after an actual elite PVP fleet I have some more feedback regarding the new overview icons / brackets. Apart from the fact that the drones Xes need to come back, because the new icons look just silly and clutter the view anyway, there is one major issue with the new icons - they are unreadable when no standings / background colours are set towards a neutral player you are fighting. Stuff just looks too much the same. And the more things you have on your OV the more you are screwed. The new icons are OK-ish in a way. You could get used to them. We just need a more "at a glance" way to tell the player controlled ships in space. Like a colour maybe. Making the player ships green for instance would help me a lot. And I bet a lot of colour blind people would also welcome the option to change player ships colour. Right now, everything on the OV that is not a waypoint object (stargate, station) has the same colour. The other way would be reverting the old brackets for player ships.
TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better.
Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships.
We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags.
Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? |
|
Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
142
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:35:59 -
[418] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. [/list]
Thanks for reading!
Well, it didn't work because I have no idea what I'm looking at. I'm curious as to what your thought process was in going live in the current state, especially after the massive outpouring of bad feedback from SiSi.
A classic bracket icons option would be fantastic. That way, everyone is happy regardless of what side of the new icon debate you fall on. You said your new icons improve "granularity" and make it easier to take everything in at a glance, and apparently the bulk of 20 pages of customer responses disagree. This way, we all go home happy. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11199
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:36:32 -
[419] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
Personally, that was unnecessary, the UI already gave more than enough information for us to do what we wanted to do. This new scheme is a messy clutter. I was just in a fight in providence and it was awful, I turned my brackets off and if I could have turned the overview icons off too I would have.
Quote: We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. [/list]
Thanks for reading!
This part is, again, the only thing that give me some hope here. The new icons aren't a "shoot the monument and unsubscribe" issue, but they do lessen my enjoyment of EVE Online. The old icons were not perfect, but they were simple (Spartan even) and I think you'll find a good few of us player like that aspect of a thing...which is why were playing EVE Online in the 1st pace lol.
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Nemesis DCC
Dead Crow Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:36:43 -
[420] - Quote
Sissy Fuzz wrote:Nemesis DCC wrote:Sissy Fuzz wrote:Nemesis DCC wrote:Is there a way to fix the launcher not and game not responding issue? Seems to have utterly failed to launch the game since the new release! Hate to ask: Have you tried rebooting? Yes I have tried. Just nothing seems to work. The game starts and just goes to Not Responding Mode. Then the launcher follows. Everything was fine until Carnyx!! Run the launcher and try clearing the cache. Under Advanced tab use 'Clear all cached data'. If that doesn't work run the 'EVE Repair Tool' on the same tab. /Sissy F
The repair toold brings an error message. I cleared the cache. Now the launcher won't start LOL
I will just download and reinstall the whole game I reckon. See how that goes. |
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DHuncan
Minerva Group
78
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:37:18 -
[421] - Quote
Cargo container dropped from MTU remains same intensity color in overview after being checked. It is supposed to appear more greyish or a darker white, if you prefer, in order to show it has being already opened.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41496&find=unread
|
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
148
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:38:56 -
[422] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote: but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
Umm....when there are a bunch that look insanely similar...okay?
CCP Surge wrote: Post back in a few days
So, this is your plan, to wait a few days and see that nobody is still complaining, (which we get yelled at for continuing to bring up the same things repeatedly) then call it good since "nobody came back to say it was still terrible for them" ???
CCP Surge wrote:especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. So, something that every. single. player. uses nearly 100% of their time in game is considered a 'little' thing? Good to know.
An example of a good version of your ship set...one that doesn't easily confuse CRUISER and DREAD!!! It has an understandable progression from small to big...
There is much more constructive feedback in the SiSi thread, and the thread about the last attempt that covers the whats/whys/hows in the theory of what good icons do. Please re-read that
Again, neutral NPC's by themselves look like player ships. They need to be distinctly different. (as was mentioned in SiSi thread(s))
Cargo container icons essentially are that of something that is 'empty'...how does that make sense...
Wreck icons are essentially hiding an tiny icon in an already TINY icon...
CCP Fozzie wrote:once we feel it meets the quality level our customers expect.
Posted about delaying the Sov changes, but still VERY relevant to the icons. These new Overview icons do NOT meet that "quality level" you speak of.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
|
Valterra Craven
558
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:39:43 -
[423] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
You know what would have helped to alleviate problems one and four? Not doing all the icons at once. You guys wanted fast release schedules, this was a perfect thing to use. Release all drone icons for 6 weeks. release all station icons for 6 weeks, get gradual feedback etc. Sometimes ripping the band off quick and dirty is just a bad idea all around. |
Ben Cromwell
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:40:16 -
[424] - Quote
The new icons are a big improvement...say for example you sit on a gate and wait for T1 haulers to land at autopilot range...before the stupid industrial box that would pop up would cover everything from a venture to an obelisk, so it was pretty much useless. You had to identify the ship by its profile and coloring which meant lots of zooming in and out and UI menu navigating. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11199
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:41:15 -
[425] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I guess I'm the only one who kind of likes the new icons? ''
No there are others. The ONLY icon I've found I like so far is the acceleration gate icon, but the rest are silly and the overall scheme is overly complicated. As I've said, for at least some of us, simpler is better.
On my other toon I sat on a Titan bridge waiting to jump into a fight for 2 hours this afternoon, and I had my brackets on. We were in Lokis sitting on a titan. The lokis had cruiser icons that look like houses.
It like a Titan had just crash landed in some neighborhood...or into a huge game of monopoly lol. Other than believing this is an utterly unnecessary change and begging CCP to consider a classic icon toggle, I also think most of the icons are ugly to boot.
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
81
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:41:42 -
[426] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
I admire what you tried to do but I think it was implemented poorly. A different icon for small/medium/large asteroids? Common.
I also just realised you have 12 different icons for cargo containers....
You need to address the wreck icons, I don't feel different icons for player and NPC wrecks is necessary, and the difference between looted and unlooted is too subtle for both.
Drones need to go back to being just a cross, the only drone I can actually easily distinguish at the moment is a sentry drone because it looks so different from player ships.
I don't particularly like the new over aesthetic either but I guess I'll just get used to it over time.
[quote=CCP Surge We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option.[/quote] Please. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
284
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:42:38 -
[427] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Porucznik Borewicz wrote:OK, so after an actual elite PVP fleet I have some more feedback regarding the new overview icons / brackets. Apart from the fact that the drones Xes need to come back, because the new icons look just silly and clutter the view anyway, there is one major issue with the new icons - they are unreadable when no standings / background colours are set towards a neutral player you are fighting. Stuff just looks too much the same. And the more things you have on your OV the more you are screwed. The new icons are OK-ish in a way. You could get used to them. We just need a more "at a glance" way to tell the player controlled ships in space. Like a colour maybe. Making the player ships green for instance would help me a lot. And I bet a lot of colour blind people would also welcome the option to change player ships colour. Right now, everything on the OV that is not a waypoint object (stargate, station) has the same colour. The other way would be reverting the old brackets for player ships.
TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better. Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships. We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags. Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? I'm seconding the drone point to make sure you get it. Drones don't need icon distinctiveness or whatever. They're just friggin drones. The little x's were perfect. |
Citrute
The High and Mighty Carebear Abortion Clinic
136
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:44:32 -
[428] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:What are your reasons for doing so?
Over the years the size of 'things' have been getting bigger, requiring more real estate for the same window/amount of information.
Things like adding the undock/cq button to station services, agents/guests/offices/hangar buttons being oversized and no longer neat and tidy tabs (Merge ship and items in station services are still tabbed) Directional scanner when it got more options (Sliders etc) Unified inventory. Autopilot route/system descriptions maybe? iirc the standard font was also 'bigger' after it was fixed/changed
i'm sure there are more but I have honestly forgotten specifics over the years and have adapted by using ui scaling. |
Taru Audeles
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:45:12 -
[429] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
You might to just stop attacking your player base and constanly saying the same thing. People are unlucky with the new icons and with the way you sneak them in without any information and warning. Just saying give our brains more time is not helping. At least say you where wrong and you look for ways to make it better. Just roll them back to the old state until you FIX the bugs. Just pushing unfinished features out brings you trouble. Please take this seriously. Give the players an option to activate the new icons. Nothing was wrong with the old ones so bring them back and give people the choice. You can monitor and track how many people use the old ones against the new ones and then make a decision based on that. This is NOT a small change like you think.
|
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11199
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:45:26 -
[430] - Quote
Tyr Dolorem wrote:CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading! I admire what you tried to do but I think it was implemented poorly. A different icon for small/medium/large asteroids? Common. I also just realised you have 12 different icons for cargo containers.... You need to address the wreck icons, I don't feel different icons for player and NPC wrecks is necessary, and the difference between looted and unlooted is too subtle for both. Drones need to go back to being just a cross, the only drone I can actually easily distinguish at the moment is a sentry drone because it looks so different from player ships. I don't particularly like the new over aesthetic either but I guess I'll just get used to it over time. CCP Surge wrote: We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Please.
Well said, illustrates the issue of massive over complication perfectly.
|
|
Headhunter JAX
Macabre Votum Northern Coalition.
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:46:23 -
[431] - Quote
seriously new ikons ? Iam palyin since 2005 - saw CCP doing the wrong way more then 10 times - 2-3 of those were really bad - ... normally i do not post on forums - but when I do .... means CCP went again wrong way :F ..... and they are about to destroy it for 11th time :AFSD.....
I am like https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/72/80/ee/7280eedf85ea5d674c22c5959d6e86cb.jpg
dear CCP please make at least option to turn off new icons :AFSD
#BringOldIconsBACK |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:46:28 -
[432] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for writing.
Well this feedback is about your process, if you don't mind? I am really sorry if it feels deconstructive at your end.
Why change? You still haven't provided a proper reason for the change. What does "better granularity" mean? In terms of tangible benefits? Were people complaining about the old granularity?
/Sissy F
|
maredelsilenzio
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:49:19 -
[433] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
Please, don't urge me anything. That page with an image cannot be opened. My specific feedback is: give me an option to choose do I want to accept the change you provide, not the other way around. I didn't pay for 6 months ahead to get something different I purchased. The calls to include solution before change shouldn't be only taken seriously, should be mandatory to have.
It's up to you now. I quieted the game 7 years ago. I was curious did something change. This time I will be glad to quit it permanently.
Thanks for reading. |
Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:49:24 -
[434] - Quote
Nemesis DCC wrote:Sissy Fuzz wrote:Nemesis DCC wrote:Sissy Fuzz wrote:Nemesis DCC wrote:Is there a way to fix the launcher not and game not responding issue? Seems to have utterly failed to launch the game since the new release! Hate to ask: Have you tried rebooting? Yes I have tried. Just nothing seems to work. The game starts and just goes to Not Responding Mode. Then the launcher follows. Everything was fine until Carnyx!! Run the launcher and try clearing the cache. Under Advanced tab use 'Clear all cached data'. If that doesn't work run the 'EVE Repair Tool' on the same tab. /Sissy F The repair toold brings an error message. I cleared the cache. Now the launcher won't start LOL I will just download and reinstall the whole game I reckon. See how that goes.
Good luck! :) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
9843
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:54:23 -
[435] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I guess I'm the only one who kind of likes the new icons? No I like them, just a pity about the 90% scaling.
=]|[=
|
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
149
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:55:39 -
[436] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons?
You got plenty of this, in the SiSi thread. But no dev response in that for weeks...in the thread CCP started....start there.
CCP Surge wrote:This relatively small icons swap 200 and how many icons? Relatively small? 12 seperate container icons...small medium and large asteroids? There is more but alas, i'm paying YOU to do that kind of legwork...
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
|
Hita321
achtung partizanen M.I.F
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:56:47 -
[437] - Quote
I do not need detail here, her mother. You need a simple and informative. Not bulky and congestion, and clarity. And I'm such and choose what is this? star or a wormhole? Make like a map. |
Ciprian
Fat Dragon Mining Co. Darwinism.
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:56:59 -
[438] - Quote
New icons are unbearable. Can you pls give us a option to choose, like with a new map? |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:57:03 -
[439] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:CCP Surge wrote:We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons?
You got plenty of this, in the SiSi thread. But no dev response in that for weeks...in the thread CCP started....start there. u actually do sound surprised
|
moep
Hedion University Amarr Empire
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:57:59 -
[440] - Quote
The new overview icons? Well test your brain in a simulated pvp situation:
You jump through gate, hostiles camping, quick decision needs to be taken, your heart is beating like a jungle drum, engage or not?
Let's get this one started with old icons:
Overview loads, 3...2....1.... Let's go!
New icons
=> Quick decision to engage, lights on green!
Ok, same situation, new icons:
Overview loads, 3...2....1.... Let's go!
New overview
=> You get it?
Military experts are calling this a cynosural.... ah wait.....information overflow!
moep moep |
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
257
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 21:59:05 -
[441] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. Yes please include "use classic icons" in options so people can choose what they want. |
chmeee kzin
Raging Main Zero Fux.
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:01:14 -
[442] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
okay, Constructive feedback: 1. Learning curve. For those who have played for any length of time, their brain has already "learned' the symbols, associated it with an object(s), assigned it a logical order, and prioritized it accordingly ( threat, non-threat ). This is critical because reaction time and ability to process loads of incoming information in Eve counts for a lot. To the new player, there is nothing to Un-Learn, one needs to simply learn.
2. Object recognition. When the brain sees an unrecognizable symbol or character, it automatically begins to search memory for an association, when it returns with a query or "closest approximation" result instead of an answer, the process that relies upon retrieving that information halts. Now introduce multiple unrecognizable symbols and the process becomes even more confusing. That confusion results in brain lag (for lack of a better word ) because as humans, we are by nature "problem solvers".
3. Essentially, by introducing numerous icon changes with different meanings, associations, you have created learning chaos instead of a structured learning curve. introduce one related symbol at a time ( ships, celestial s, deployable, etc. ) over a period of weeks to allow the human brain to un-learn and re-learn what it is supposed to know. Data dumps are not productive! |
Zan- nah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:03:34 -
[443] - Quote
After seeing the foums explode during lunch I was freaking out. I thought " Oh no what will it be like?"
I get home and log in.....
Not bad. Man people do not like change.
I do need to use it a bit more but my first impression is that it is not bad at all.
|
Alvarez Akachi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:10:12 -
[444] - Quote
Sigh.....we really need a 'use old icon' option here.
See the problem here with the new icons is this.....
An idiot savant genius of a CIVILIAN thought that the same symbols used on a map boar belonged on the battlefield..............
Wrong, battlefield is required for simple....very simple icons and understanding for the sake of speed and efficiency. Tactics.
Now strategy....where you use a mapboard with many different units of varying sizes, types, and unit identifiers....yeah thats where you use this stuff.
The eye will try to process the symbols over the text next to them...causing confusion and mistakes. and that eats up time...time precious for those attempting to fight on the battlefield.
There is your answer Devs, thats the problem with the new overview icons. if some want them then fine, but those that dont...which is many to include myself should have the option to us the old icon system. its that or get rid of them.....period.
We do not need to know roles and stuff like that measured by icons on a battlefiled.....hell most vets already know them by ship type.....or what they set the meta up as. So please smack your idiot CIVILIAN in the head who thought this was a good idea and do something about it. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
435
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:10:44 -
[445] - Quote
FFS this is the WORST patch ever....
Hey wait, I'm still downloading...
Never mind... |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:11:45 -
[446] - Quote
Spc One wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. Yes please include "use classic icons" in options so people can choose what they want. agreed free choice of options this is just gettin forced onto us wether we like it or not
|
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:15:36 -
[447] - Quote
Taru Audeles wrote:People are unlucky with the new icons and with the way you sneak them in without any information and warning. That is nonsense. There were blogs, and the new icons were around long enough on Singularity. There was no "sneaking in". Besides, some players like the new icons -- I do -- so don't assume you speak for everybody. |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative.
404
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:15:50 -
[448] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:[quote=Porucznik Borewicz]Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? HELL YES !!!!
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
314
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:16:10 -
[449] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I urge patience.
Reasonable enough. Echoing many here, patience would be amazingly easier if the players had the choice to use the old or the new, akin to the new map, rather than their normal game play experience being interrupted abruptly.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1791
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:17:05 -
[450] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
Sorry to say that, because I know there have been efforts for that specific issue already, but the drone icons... It prevents a lot of that at a glance awareness.
Maybe remove the colored aura they have around them? And instead fill them with whatever color the aura should've had?
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
|
|
Samuel Triptee
Frankenstuff
99
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:17:44 -
[451] - Quote
I am enjoying the new icons and the information they give me at a glance. Now I am wondering what column I will use instead of "type"...
I hope it's a scaling issue with the capsuleers who are having difficulties getting used to them, because these work very well.
Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today?
|
Duo Roman
Warp Nomads
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:18:13 -
[452] - Quote
At first I thought the launcher was not downloading the patch, but you need to hover the mouse over the launcher to the update bar move. |
Velarra
384
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:22:40 -
[453] - Quote
Dear CCP,
The positive:
-General rendering, and lighting of things in space: ships, stations, structures and similar seems quite nice and seemingly improved.
-Load time from pressing play via the launcher, choosing a character and logging into the game is near instant. I get the impression various optimizations related to loading from the resource cache have been made in this login sequence? With the whole clients' shared data files loaded from ramdisk, the game seems even faster than in your last patch. Instant log-in is amazing!
Negative:
Not fond of the new icons and no, i don't like the new map either or anything you've been doing with it. Extra, distracting eye candy isn't as valuable as plain, super-functional straightforward, easy to understand UI. Don't fix, what isn't broken. |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:24:38 -
[454] - Quote
I am not writing on the forums much. The last time i think was in the days of the jita riots. That i am here again now is because, the overview/icon issue concerns me on nearly the same level.
Also i wasnt on Sissi the last weeks and didnt become aware of this changes at all. So it hits me like a sledgehammer when i undocked after the patch. I looked into some keynotes from fanfest 2015 and became the impression that textures, shaders and pretty shiny stuff is very much in the focus. That the game also has to attract the pixel perverts is something i fully understand. If you messed up something there i can just scroll out (as it is mostly in space) and live with it.
The overview is holy! It is THE crucial tool we need to earn our daily bread (at least when you do pvp) If changes are planned, the more i wonder now why this wasnt a focus so things could be sort out for costumer satisfaction before it hits Tranq?
CCP Surge wrote: Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
for me things are worse now because:
there is no clear progression from small to big Npcs and players are messed up now most of the new icons make no sense for me
beside the fact, new players now have to learn not only the different ships, but also dozens of different icons for them, i dosent get why this should be needed? (except special situation...you are a ganker on a gate waiting for a special type of hull)
When it comes to the situation that two players meet on a grid (d-scan beside) first look is size than the type column....why messing up the space with dozns of icons
In big fleet fights its again columns...sorted by type or name or you lock the target from fleet broadcast again no real need to float space with dozens of different icons
from time to time i get e-mails from your marketing department, and been kindly asked: how long i play..what i do...how i get into the game
maybe other than optimizing how people get into the game you should also optimize people staying in it! After nearly a decade now this mess and after shooting a monument in jita, what else can the players do to be heard.....i guess airlines didnt like the idea of people with pitchforks and torches on trans-atlantic travels.
|
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:25:20 -
[455] - Quote
Lara Divinity wrote:Spc One wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. Yes please include "use classic icons" in options so people can choose what they want. agreed free choice of options this is just gettin forced onto us wether we like it or not
+1
less is often more. ccp looks like there flooded with fresh bachelors. |
Trajan Unknown
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:25:28 -
[456] - Quote
moep wrote:The new overview icons? Well test your brain in a simulated pvp situation: You jump through gate, hostiles camping, quick decision needs to be taken, your heart is beating like a jungle drum, engage or not?
Let's get this one started with old icons:
Overview loads, 3...2....1.... Let's go! Old icons=> Quick decision to engage, lights on green!
Ok, same situation, new icons:
Overview loads, 3...2....1.... Let's go! New overview=> You get it? Military experts are calling this a cynosural.... ah wait.....information overflow! moep moep
It might too late for me and I completely miss understood your point but for me the new Icons are exactly what I needed. The old ones weren-¦t exactly information overflow but to put it in military terms. A recruit on comms during an hostile assault. Better have a neckbeard next to him to slap the panic out of his head so he-¦s giving proper intel over comms instead of babbling nonsense. Old icons were nonsense, non useable for proper information and simply a hindrance. Sure, you got used to it but that doesn-¦t mean they were useful.
If you call that information overflow have a seat into a fighter simulator and talk about information overflow again. EvE has by no means an information overflow. There is bad information flow so we could agree there is some kind of overflow but that-¦s not the icon stuff.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
43
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:26:55 -
[457] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:1) Our overall aim was because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid.
2) But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with.
3) Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
4) Check out this image to help learn your icons:
5) We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
6) We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in.
7) Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness?
8) The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI.
Let me tackle this one by one:
1) The reasons to overhaul icons are profound and correct. I enjoy the different asteroid icons now, and old ship brackets did not convey information properly. But I have never heard anyone saying they have problems with icons OTHER than ships. Not only are you confusing people by re-using the same icon for something DIFFERENT, but you are not using the icon real estate well enough, by not using enough different forms and fills. You should have only touched ship icons for now. A "tiericide" of the overview icons instead of a full blown revamp. Ship icons do not follow a pattern which is distinguishable enough to make a difference. This is the reason why the previous test was an utter failure because it relied on one basic shape alone.
2) Please don't say that. The feedback was bad enough, both times. We are concerned that you will actually never change a thing because since the last patch there have been ZERO improvements on Opportunities, and of the 4 starmap changes only ONE was significant since it was a bug fix. Opportunities affect "only" new players (it's just your future income) and we can still revert to the old map. We cannot revert icons.
3) You mean like the people who tested the icons on sisi for weeks already?
4) I'm sorry to say this, but this image is incomplete, and you know it. Why do you post incomplete information? This is like opportunities. They're half baked and clearly not finished, and now everybody has to pay the price. Please update the image with all icons, thank you.
5) Counter question: Are you going to pay the people who do your job? Are there going to be rewards for people who spend their free time to explain the issue of a product they are already paying for, and even invest more time to come up with solutions, all voluntarily? I can make a full set of icons which fix the issues with ships people are having, and I can scale the new ones AND the icons which are fine for all 4 sets. But who will reward me for doing so? Who will reward me with the time I can NOT spend playing in game? Talk to CCP Larrikin about my extensive feedback on the starmap which was not posted in the forum. He asked for it. And that was not even the full thing.
But to satisfy you with a little bit here: MOSTLY ship icons are bad, but overall you got too much into detail. The cargo container and wreck variance is useless. You brought too many distinctions which were not needed or wanted.
6) You are absolutely correct, it is an all or nothing scenario, and you were right to NOT allow the other set of icons for exactly this reason. This is proof that you all have the brains to make the right decisions! Which makes it even extra sad as to why some things go so horribly wrong :c
7) Not custom, but FIXED first. We have yellow for destinations. We have red for hostile NPCs. We only use white for neutral NPC and player ships. To avoid the green, give player ships AND player structures a light teal, which makes all NPC owned entities keep their white. Or do the reverse. Either way, let it be consistent. We had a great distinction between player and NPC before due to two completely different shapes. Now you are stuck with only two scenarios: colour one different than white, or fill out the player owned entities, while keeping the NPC ones empty. colour customization on an individual basis can be implemented LATER, since it won't magically make the problems with ship icons disappear.
8) I repeat what I wrote earlier: "If you have an UI that allows fixed scaling, then you need to design from the SMALLEST possible UI choice first, and then HANDCRAFT upwards for the next versions. If it looks crisp and good on smallest size, it will look good on larger versions since you have more space to fill pixels with. Going from one size and scale it to smaller and larger sizes is the worst kind of lazy."
You KNEW about scaling issues AND ignored it? Designing one set per scale is not super hard work once the figures have been designed once. You do not have a seamless percentage slider from 75% to 150% . You only have 4 specific scaling sets. I could demonstrate you a full mockup, but who pays me with ISK for this demonstration for time I would not be playing Eve? |
Tex Steele
Demon-War-Lords Circle-Of-Two
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:27:51 -
[458] - Quote
So far, I do NOT like the new icons.
The ship icons are virtually unusable because they are SO TINY.
HELLO DEVS!!!!
Not everyone playing this game is a teenager with fresh eyes. I am myopic, colorblind between most of the pastel shades you use in the ring around the Capacitor ring, and my eyes are old and tired. ( the rest of me is too, but I don't like to think about that.)
Seriously, how about OPTIONS?????????
Like the neocon icons and now the overview icons - LET US CHOOSE, rather than simply DICTATE to us.
Please, give us the OPTION to use the old or new.
Let us configure our game settings to suit us, rather than forcing a one-size-fits-all game upon us.
|
Cephalosa Galactica
Cruis3r's Cr3w Inc.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:31:16 -
[459] - Quote
DEAR CCCP...WTF HAVE YOU DONE TO MY GAME...i pay to play not to sit here and wait for you to unfuk the game so it can run again in my pc....i hope you reimburse at least the skillpoints of those that due to your unannounced and rapid changes can now NOT play the game they pay for due to your quality control being so ****** that you put out a product that works for half the community. I hope you fire the ones responsible for this fukup and get your sheet together..cccp...remmeber there are plenty of games out there competing and some...are getting better thatn the crap you insist on putting out for the past few patches. So once again CCP GET, YOUR, ****, TOGETHER. |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:35:57 -
[460] - Quote
Natascha Kerenski wrote:I am an old Dinosaur so adapting to new things is always hard for me....but after just a few minutes pre patch i counted at least 5 different symbols for frig class vessels (and i wouldn't be suprised if there are more) in my opinion the new symbols just add unnecessary complexity to the overview. I mean there is a column named type and you can get all the needed information there. The old symbols are just plain and simple and that is what matters to me.
Spot on perfect.
Bring the old icons back, CCP. Di-di-mao! |
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Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:43:58 -
[461] - Quote
Hello,
My first feedback :
Ships : Note : In the configuration of the game, I use the maximum level of detail. +8 For the new Caracal look (Navy and standard). The level of detail, sharpness and vessel form are really great. -1 Golem new look. It is too dirty. And the corners and edges of vessel worn are very ugly. The ship did not look real. The ship definition level is poor. -1 Bustard new look. Same problem as the Golem. -1 Widow look. Same problem as the Golem. Note : If you want to put some dirty and worn on a ship, put your effect on Armor tank ship. It would be more logical!
Skin : -1 New Kaalakiota Golem skin . The ship definition level is poor and same problems as above.
Ui: +2 for Icon in Overview window. I don't understand why I have more than one type of icon for representing asteroid (example : 2 different icons for representing Plagioglase and Azure plagioglase) . I don't understand why the pod icon don't have the egg form. The new icon for pod look asteroid form. You need to reduce the number of icons
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Natalia Abre-Kai
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:45:57 -
[462] - Quote
I like the new overview icons. :) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11202
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:46:37 -
[463] - Quote
Samuel Triptee wrote:I am enjoying the new icons and the information they give me at a glance. Now I am wondering what column I will use instead of "type"...
I hope it's a scaling issue with the capsuleers who are having difficulties getting used to them, because these work very well.
It's not a matter of getting used to them. I already have, I've been in a pvp fleet and incursion fleet and I'm currently running missions (vacation time is wonderful lol). It's a matter of the being ugly, unnecessary, hard to see for some people, less functional in some ways than the old icons and generally overcomplicated for their purpose. In other words, the whole thing is a generally bad idea.
It reminds me of all the times I ended up buying a new piece of some kind of tech only to find out that it was overly complex and buggy and thus less useful than the older version I was using. With a classic icon toggle switch it'd never see these things again, just like the Captains Quarters and the EVE launcher lol.
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
286
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:49:33 -
[464] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Taru Audeles wrote:People are unlucky with the new icons and with the way you sneak them in without any information and warning. That is nonsense. There were blogs, and the new icons were around long enough on Singularity. There was no "sneaking in". Besides, some players like the new icons -- I do -- so don't assume you speak for everybody. I mostly like them but cruisers are houses and drones do not need icons the size of ship icons. |
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
79
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:50:30 -
[465] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. Well, you failed at that. If your idea of better at-a-glance awareness involves processing dozens of different shapes that are moving around, you have no understanding of how important it is to react quickly to changes in tactical situation.
Quote:This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. It was not relatively small, it turned the perception of any grid rich with players, NPCs, drones, cans, wrecks and other entities upside down.
Quote:There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. This is what the overview is for. In space-brackets are there to tell you whether it's time to use it. The more different types of icons are there, the more time it takes to untangle the messy blob.
Quote:What specifically don't you like about the new icons? -- PCs and NPCs share the same icon. -- Drones come with a dozen icons, while most of the time not being important enough to call for that much attention. E-war drones are the exception I can think of. Hull bonused drones might be important because of the ship that controls them, but one might know what ship types are present on grid, and go from there. -- Knowing a player ship class from looking at an icon is still not enough to make tactical decision, one has to mouse-over it or read the overview. Meaning, having different icons for different classes creates visual noise. -- All of the new icons have those tiny bits and circles and whatnot, and that adds to the noise. -- Some of the new icons look very much like old icons while representing wholly different things. Hello: having to re-invent decision making patterns. Not an improvement at all.
Quote:Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things. Yes, I warped to CA1 in 6-CZ on Sisi, and I could not understand if there were any ships on grid without using the overview because of ovewhelming amount of different icons, blending with and obscuring each other. |
Kreethos
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:53:08 -
[466] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:Kreethos wrote:Alt-tab in space BLAMM client hangs--have to end task.
(alt-tab in station, no problem) I'm on a Windows 7 computer, x64, Nvidia Geforce, and alt-tabbing in space without an issue. What are you running?
win7 x64 amd 7790
yesterday alt-tab was fine, today BIG N O...... |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:55:12 -
[467] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:I am over 30 and I don-¦t have any problems at all. Not pointed towards you but when people play EvE on potato machines with bad screens I don-¦t wonder that there are issues with the icons. Get some proper hardware to not wreck your eyes and game pleasure. Just as a reference, I am "starring" at a screen for over 10hours a day for more than 17years now and my eye sight is above average. I am using an expensive screen and good lightning so a good screen with good lightning should do the trick if you-¦re not starring at the screen for more than 3hours a day. Oh and relax your eyes every now and than to not cripple them. Only because you do not have a problem does not mean that others don't have either. Humans are not born equal, not even in the first world. Some specimen are more healthier by default than others, some had more luck than others too. I'm talking about accidents or other unfortunate events that caused health issues, not what people voluntarily did to destroy their body.
It is good for you that you have an expensive screen and not a potato. Not everybody can afford this, but I also don't ask you to buy them better gear, and never will. But should they stop playing a game they come to like? Stop playing with people they enjoy being around? People which are the entire reason they log on every day?
Some people even use expensive gear to make the issues at hand not WORSE than they otherwise would be. So please do not judge everybody who has a problem with the icons to be automatically poor and physically ********. A good screen with good lighting is not going to solve every issue. Also, please take to heart what other people have told you about the older sisi feedback and the recent one. It seems you are clearly missing out on the bigger picture. I advise you step out of your golden cage and look at the facts. I'm glad you have the brains and body to be free of these cumbersome issues. Now please don't degrade other people and talk down to them who HAVE these issues. Do we have an agreement?
So why is the backlash so huge compared to other things? Well, most people don't care about new players once they already know what to do. Which is why the opportunities have not received as much flak as they should have. And the map? Well, the old one is still accessible. Here? Now? There is no alternative. It is forced Captain's quarters like we had in Incarna all over the place again. Turn off the old map for real, and keep the new one as it is... and people will voice their concerns just as loud. How long did it take for CCP to understand it and apologize? Look it up. How many of us thought that CCP learned the lesson and will not do it again? Plenty. Which have, as of today at least, been sorely disappointed again.
I'm seeing long term veterans (not writing in this forum) unsubscribing because they are physically unable to work with the game any more, which might have been a little tough before but at least bearable.
Changes like these rip communities apart. Changes like these drop subscription counts. Less money means a less developed game. Nobody wants that. Not developers, not players. |
Nym Doe
Bear Bones Brigade The Bastards.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:59:08 -
[468] - Quote
As a 2003 player..
I have multiple accounts/toons across most areas of new eden. I have a healthy PVP record and a healthy PVE wallet. I'm a wormholer, pirate, fw runner, hisec carebear and (in previous times) a nullsec player
The issue with the icons is that the previous incarnation excelled in it's simplicity - is the ship bigger than me or smaller than me. i.e do I engage or do I run. I don't need to differentiate to this degree over the ship class when a split decision is required, nor do I need the additional brain bleed that comes with learning new icons. If it's not helping, it's a hindrance and unnecessary chaff.
However.
Change is a good thing - but polling the user base is also a good thing. To me, a simple solution to understand the usability now that it has hit tranquility is to provide the option to turn it off and gather statistics. To a degree, you are not interested in the numbers that turn it off straight away as this could easily be bittervet syndrome. Equally, you're not interested in the stats of people that live with the new icons, as these may be new players that don't know different. The player base stats that you should be most interested in is those that try it for a few days, and then turn it off in favour of the old icons. This will tell you much more than sifting through simple rage on the forums.
My other issue with the icons, while I'm here, is that they appear too much like a cartoon to fit in with the immersion of EVE. The drones as an example don't 'feel' right with everything else that is going on onscreen. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
267
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 22:59:59 -
[469] - Quote
CCP,
I gotta say this you guys seem to be sticking to the exact excuse statements and reasons, yet you will continue to drive forward and roll out what you wish to have done in this game. I sit on my wallet for now you have proven even more that as a paying customer the entire community's feedbacks go ignored.. all cause you think its better your way and not the way of the community.
I have to sit on reserve now watching these changes impact the game and my gameplay, feels as if I like many others are reaching crossroads to deciding to continue paying to play eve online.
im very disappointed in you ccp and whats even worse the near future changes coming to the game it just is too much.
these outcries can not be ignored, its simple reasoning and no confusion at all to include "opt out" options when adding new features to the overview/hud or anything else....
why just why do you continue going down the same road again and again..( you caused rage at 1st with the sensor overlay, finally it was resolved with a turn off option) yet its like you never paid attention to that phase and did it all over again today with the icons.
the new icons are incredibly awful.. its an eye sore, I absolutely have no idea why you focused on that instead of the many I repeat many issues going on in eve online.. its like you turn blinds-eye to important stuff then move that down the list and decide to mess with something that wasn't even broken..
so if its working.. its broken.. If its broken you'll get to it later.
awful.. just awful..
burn everything peeps if you can manage to figure out what you're targeting.. burn jita, amarr, rens, burn it all.. burn this bish down! |
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CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
603
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:06:34 -
[470] - Quote
DexterShark wrote:- I am not sure why all the station services have a circle around them. Presumably this is the Entosis counter, which is fine if those services are being contested, but it displays all the time. Can you confirm that this is a bug to be ironed out? You're right that the circles around the station services represent the entosis status of the service.
Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration.
Thanks for the feedback!
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
261
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:11:56 -
[471] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:DexterShark wrote:- I am not sure why all the station services have a circle around them. Presumably this is the Entosis counter, which is fine if those services are being contested, but it displays all the time. Can you confirm that this is a bug to be ironed out? You're right that the circles around the station services represent the entosis status of the service. Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration. Thanks for the feedback! Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes. So now, everyone with 5minutes time and noob ship can take out any station service, later stations i guess. I think people will stop using conquerable stations, because this mechanic is just dumb.
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Viktor Koraka
Strategic Industrial Combat Support Regiment
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:13:11 -
[472] - Quote
Just providing some feedback -
The new UI Icons make me feel like I'm looking at Space Invaders... It feels very "old school" and rigid.
I do, however, like how there are different icons for different ships. It does help to spot the types of ships that are in your area.
|
Arzi Reece
Katniss Everdeen Pride
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:13:51 -
[473] - Quote
Can't Launch the game....Great |
Array Aggression
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:17:00 -
[474] - Quote
Not that I don't want to scroll through the rest of the 23 pages, but after like 10 I was a little burnt out. That being saved, we ever find a solution to making the game load? Or should I just be thankful I have a queue set out for months..? |
Cj Allyn
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate United Interests
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:17:16 -
[475] - Quote
Icons: Look like they are 8 years older than the game. The gate icons not even a circle its a square with round corners. The asteriod symbol looks like a 9 year old drew it with a crayon. Its a cutting edge modern space game treat it as such please.
The intentions are great yeah the different sized boxes were boring but they looked good. Use a higher resolution symbol system then im sure people will be happier.
Jackdaw slow as hell. that is all.
Pod has more vents? for the non atmosphere im sure.
Caracal model. DUDES! you made the ugliest ship the nicest ship in like 5 mb lol good job. when can the thorax get a new model?PLZZZZZZ
a little guide to the icons would be nice too please before we undock tackle a brutix cause i thought it was a incursus
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
267
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:19:20 -
[476] - Quote
Spc One wrote:CCP Lebowski wrote:DexterShark wrote:- I am not sure why all the station services have a circle around them. Presumably this is the Entosis counter, which is fine if those services are being contested, but it displays all the time. Can you confirm that this is a bug to be ironed out? You're right that the circles around the station services represent the entosis status of the service. Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration. Thanks for the feedback! Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes. So now, everyone with 5minutes time and noob ship can take out any station service, later stations i guess. I think people will stop using conquerable stations, because this mechanic is just dumb.
I must agree, that's exactly what I witnessed today out in null..
wow talk about a motivational killer for pushing folks into living in null sec |
Circumstantial Evidence
182
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:19:43 -
[477] - Quote
Its about time the art department discovered that other shapes besides the rectangle, could be used in icons. Industrials and freighters sharing the same rectangle looked weird, every time. Some of those rectangles seemed just one pixel different from each other. |
Zeus Cronus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:21:30 -
[478] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:
Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration.
Thanks for the feedback!
It quite honestly shouldnt have been released until that feature is in, cause atm its freaking annoying, specially if u actually warp in at range, cause then all you see are those damn things. |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
170
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:26:41 -
[479] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. Yet somehow "better granularity" and quick "at-a-glance awareness" can't be part of the same sentence describing the same thing, they are opposites, adding more detail and variance does not make things quicker and easier to identify, simplification does that.
CCP Surge wrote:Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. So the days and days and weeks and weeks of testing we continued to do on Sisi was different somehow? You said back then in the early Sisi threads to give them a few days, and then CCP never came back as if they couldn't find the icon for the forum thread anymore.
CCP Surge wrote:While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? To be completely honest here... when you have weeks and weeks of constructive feedback in the Sisi thread YOU started but then left for dead, can you really say you didn't see this coming?. And due to that outright ignorance of the "good" feedback, you WILL get massive amounts of "bad" feedback. I mean you didn't bother to read the thought out, carefully constructed and informationally backed feedback, so maybe you will pay more attention to the easier to read short qibs about how terribad your decision to push this change to TQ was. I hate having to be this honest, but reading the feedback when you ask for it is your job, not mine to catalog and document each instance so I can bring it up later in detail when you conveniently forgot it existed in the first place. Now maybe if you paid me to do it for you, that would be a different story.
Morihei Akachi wrote:What amuses me is that we have module tiericide busy cutting down on unneeded complexity (slow complexity that didn't require quick decision making in most cases), but then with the overview icons we have a massive proliferation of added complexity (for a situation in which rapid recognition of and instant decision-making). Do these guys even talk to each other? This over complification (new word, opposite of simplification) of the icon set seems to go against the removing unnecessary complexity in the game, and these different groups most definitely aren't on the same page as far as goals for the game's design.
Anyone remember the last time CCP decided to fix and update something to have much more detail than needed that wasn't broken to begin with? I know I sure do..., still get the shivers when I see those screenshots. Sad part is, took CCP 3 months to realize they were bad and give us the old turret icons back.
Lastly, I will leave you with the definition of "overview":
"A general outline of a subject or situation; survey or summary".
An overview icon needs to be concise, clean, simple. KISS. As stated by numerous constructive posts all throughout the various "icon disaster" threads in months prior, you don't need to try to push all the info that is already stated in both the name and type etc etc as well as listed in other overview columns. Needs to be more simple, not more complex.
Examples of too much info: 1) Drones, only need to know its a drone, the old and simple X worked perfect. If any info is needed it can be gathered by hovering over it or looking at the listing in the overview. Heck, the only new drone icon that most people can easily separate as not a ship is the one that looks closest to the old X and furthest from the massive pile of space invaders.
2) Cargo containers... 12 variations? What for, really. You took a single icon from the old system, and split it into a billion new icons to learn and work with on a regular basis.
3) 5 variations on frigate hull icons. For what, single one off ships that is the only ship using the different icon? Frigate is a frigate, let's just leave it at that.
4) If you really feel it necessary to get more granular than the old icons, http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1505/NoUTVmZ3.png is a perfect example of simple and progressive, also the cruiser isn't 3 pixels from a dread.
5) I'm not even going to get started on celestials or the rest of the structures or objects. They should be separated and handled on their own after you fix this. You can't just throw hundreds of newly complicated and switched around icons at your player base and say "eh, get used to it" or "its better because we say so".
Gah, wow, that was a lot of text, but we'll see if it was even worth the effort, probably wasn't. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
381
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:26:56 -
[480] - Quote
My 2 cents - the icons are terribad. Over complicated and way too small to convey and useful information. Its not a question of getting used to them since they are so small as to basically merge into a fuzzy blob of meaninglessness. Icons should be simplistic so that people can classify objects into appropriate categories quickly, these fail that test. Hopefully, there will be an opt out button soon and they can be relegated to the meaningless dungeon inhabited by captains quarters, industry teams, and the new map.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Zeus Cronus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:27:29 -
[481] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Spc One wrote:CCP Lebowski wrote:DexterShark wrote:- I am not sure why all the station services have a circle around them. Presumably this is the Entosis counter, which is fine if those services are being contested, but it displays all the time. Can you confirm that this is a bug to be ironed out? You're right that the circles around the station services represent the entosis status of the service. Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration. Thanks for the feedback! Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes. So now, everyone with 5minutes time and noob ship can take out any station service, later stations i guess. I think people will stop using conquerable stations, because this mechanic is just dumb. I must agree, that's exactly what I witnessed today out in null.. wow talk about a motivational killer for pushing folks into living in null sec Not sure about you, but ive never had much trouble killing noob ships, so im quite sure the owners of those outposts would have been able to as well if they really wanted |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1674
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:30:52 -
[482] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading! Thanks for the reply, please be aware that quite a few of us are quite famiar with the icons, we have followed their development since the beginning, and have used them extensively on sisi. I do not want this to sound purely negative, but most are not against change, we are against bad change. You have been informed repeatedly by many, as to the failings of the new icons, in brief the issues boil down to, increased clutter, reusing similar icons to current icons, in different roles, over granularity. Insufficient differentiation between player and non player icons And most importantly illegible icons for cruisers and below at all resolutions and Scaling including 100%. These were all repeatedly pointed out, and whilst you may have hoped that the wider user base may have embraced them, the opposite has happened and the main user base has reacted even more strongly than the test players.
Please do not ignore these issues, the legibility issues are NOT something that can be got used to, some may be able to tolerate it, those with perfect eyesight etc, but for many this is a make or break issue. Not for esthetic reasons or resistant to change, but literally some are going and are suffering from real eye strain, and that is a physical limit we cannot adapt to, no matter how willing we are to accept things.
I really hope you can find a resolution, even if it is only giving us the chance to use clearer original settings, until you can revisit the issue possibly with the aid of outside help with experience of legibility and vision issues.
Thanks for your reply, I truly hope you can help with this.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Di Mulle
91
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Posted - 2015.06.02 23:32:05 -
[483] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
Thanks for reading!
Still haven't an opportunity to see a really big fleet to tell if it feels such a clusterf...k others are telling.
But one very specific feedback I can make. Wreck icons. WHAT was wrong with the old way - empty wreck icon is, you know, empty, and vice versa ?
My age starts to show and the eyes aren't perfectly sharp anymore. Trying to fish whether that wreck icon has a small pixel above or not already is a horrible strain. And that with 100% UI scaling. Ah, ofc, there is a tooltip...I should stop the sarcasm now. Same for cargo container icon. Just ti...iiny.
However, if CCP wishes to make some donations in the name of my optician, I think we can settle things. Not asking much, just the price of my subscriptions.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
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Maki Talie-Kuo
Zero Atmosphere
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:35:12 -
[484] - Quote
The new icons are bad bring back the old ones or give us an option for it, nuff said. |
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
24
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:36:16 -
[485] - Quote
I try to find what modifications of the UI made this last months are good... we have lost nearly all real customization (the "themes" are inferior to the previous slider system, sorry CCP but it is a fact. I have hard time to deal with your dark UI), we get discutable icons in a neocom who can't be opaque anymore, etc.
And now, we have a overview who fell cluttered, because there are too much different icons. Well, why do something simple when you can do it very complex...
CCP should fire all the UI team. I mean, seriously. The UI is what all players encounter at all time, you just can't fix what wasn't broken as you do usually or you will demotivate some new players to stay. The previous "operating system" UI was better, and the previous icons was simpler.
In fact, the previous UI was FUNCTIONAL and that was great. It is not the case since few recent updates as you try to make it more flashy. |
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
182
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:43:09 -
[486] - Quote
Regarding the icons in the overview and in space they are quite hard to differentiate from each other. If we were not able to hover the cursor over them to find out what the items were it would honestly be a game-breaking issue. I can see you were trying to be clever maybe or trying to help us out but it truly was unnecessary work on your part. The old icons were not broken and served their purpose. Sometimes less is more. Those four words covers this situation completely.
My old phrase is coming back to bite you on the bum : " Only fix things that are actually broken." .
Regarding the nerf to sentry drones I was worried this would make them not as good on my Dominix for doing level four missions. I have only recently skilled into them fully so I was pleasantly surprised today to find they still do the job. As many have pointed out to you the main problem that actually did need fixing was that battleship weapons should not be allowed on cruisers. So if you remove their use from Ishtars it will please a lot of people I expect. I don't own an Ishtar or have that much at all to do with their use so it's not a problem for me. But I gather a lot of others are waiting for you to fix that baby.
Regarding the Entosis Link I haven't fully looked into how they operate. I'm probably putting my foot in it as I know nothing about them but I hope a war-dec has to be initiated before they can be used on structures. If not and you implement that methodology in high sec you will likely have a riot on your hands. |
Ploing
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:52:28 -
[487] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:
In fact, the previous UI was FUNCTIONAL and that was great.
so ccp why dont you create an icon for each ship? come on. simply to clarify. yes you can. ...wait not...
|
Gallente Citizen 92785395
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:52:43 -
[488] - Quote
Any cool space games out there? I can't even pay this one anymore. It has to be a free one 'cause I can't afford another subscription. I so thought I was gonna be able to get back into this... |
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
465
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:56:25 -
[489] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
Thanks for reading! This is ******* ridiculous. There is a whole thread of feedback full of specifics from the test server which you ignored and now you want me to do it again??
I took the time to do it before, so no, I'm not going to do it again - its your problem if you can't read or understand it.
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
|
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
728
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:56:48 -
[490] - Quote
It would have been better to use lettering instead of icons in the overview. You can fit two letters into that small space pretty elegantly. I'm not sure if I already suggested this in the original icons thread so apologies if that's the case.
Ships (always in capitals): F D C BC BS DR CA SC T CD (combat drone) ED (ewar drone)
Celestials (always lower case): s p m ab co cf
The lettering instead of icons would allow for more or less instant recognition of what the overview entry is.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
|
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Di Mulle
91
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:57:42 -
[491] - Quote
Saisin wrote:Hope CCP can sift the number of real humans on this thread... I suspect a lot of those new icons tears are coming from different alts of the same people
I also suspect the tears loving posts " are coming from different alts of the same people".
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
|
Gabriel Ironfist
Free Bacon. Reverberation Project
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:57:46 -
[492] - Quote
Arzi Reece wrote:Can't Launch the game....Great
I think this is one of the most constructive comment CCP got for this Release...
On the launcher, under settings there is a " Run Repair tool" Option m8. Try that out. 99.9% it solves problems.... |
dongoble
Full Spectrum Inc Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:58:18 -
[493] - Quote
love the new overview options |
loquacious7
Pawnstars INC The Obsidian Front
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.02 23:59:26 -
[494] - Quote
Icon bad, very bad. and it even looks cheaply done. I bet the Atari references were received well :p Change is good, but bad change is worse than no change. BAD CHANGE is worse than no change. Icon Bad. Icon bad Icon bad ... |
loquacious7
Pawnstars INC The Obsidian Front
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:04:14 -
[495] - Quote
Gallente Citizen 92785395 wrote:Any cool space games out there? I can't even pay this one anymore. It has to be a free one 'cause I can't afford another subscription. I so thought I was gonna be able to get back into this...
you can have one of my carriers, they are paperweights in the corp hanger now. I remember a game of combat once that was not afraid of great ships capable of force projection across the galaxy. But I think that game disappeared :)
|
Talaris EveningStar
The Torchwood Institute
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:04:31 -
[496] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I formally request a spoon or possibly spork with which to fork out my own eyes due to these awful icons.
Sincerely, Tal
XOXOXO |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
361
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:05:17 -
[497] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading! There we have the "have patience, it takes a while" argument again. It was the same with the new UI icons. And guess what, I actually dislike them as much as on the day you introduced them. Sometimes I get the feeling that you tend to forget that most of us are adults and that some of us are quite capable to percieve problematic design decisions when they see them.
Updating or modernizing the icons is perfectly ok in itself. Unfortunately your approach is fundamentally flawed in at least two ways.
You seem to believe that a higher granularity improves the "at-a-glance awareness" and provides more information per se, so you conceived dozens of new icons. However, it seems you are oblivious to the fact, that information overload is a limiting factor in that regard. The threshold to information overload is affected by several factors, stress level and individual capability among them. The individual capability in turn is affected by various factors, too. With regard to EVE I'd include sleep and session time as variables. Basically this means, that you should focus on displaying important information while omitting less important information or at least make it optional. Too many of your icons give completely irrelevant information. If I had a say in this, I would axe several of the icons: Combat -1 (rookie ships are frigates), Industrial: - 3 (mining frigates are frigates and that leaves us with large and medium industrials), Drones: - 5 (1 icon for fighters/bombers, 1 icon for combat drones, 1 icon for non-combat drones). And that's conservative, you could remove far more icons and still have a working system.
In addition your icons are seemingly designed with an artistic idea in mind (and are not even looking that good), partially forgetting that the icons are supposed to give tactical information in (space) combat situations. In combination with overview colors it's no longer easy to properly discern most of the icons. I'd suggest to look at military tactical icons for guidance. With regard to the general design I would suggest to replace the frigate triangle with an acute-angled triangle as in the capital letter "A" to give it a more dynamic, spaceship like look. For cruisers you could use a similar icon, a bit wider, perhaps with a flat top. At least redesign the cruiser icons so they don't look like monopoly houses anymore.
Since I don't expect or believe that you will do anything to improve the mess you created with the news icons, it would be nice to make it optional to use them. Please give us the option to switch back to the old icons and let the players decide whether they want your new icons or not.
P.S.: Btw, the link is broken.
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
165
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:06:30 -
[498] - Quote
OMG!!
You went ahead and release the stupid icons!! I see the "feedback" is only heeded when it agrees with your ideas and points of view.
These icons are a total mess!! Hard to understand and they add soo much more information that it's meaningless.
Please bring the old icons back! |
Malcolm Erkkinen
Malkys INC. Empire Services
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:08:34 -
[499] - Quote
Quote:While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
The new icons for wrecks simply are not as clear as the solid triangle for "loot wrecks" and the clear triangle for "non loot wrecks" - you are fixing something that is not broken. Meanwhile I have constant issues trying to log in to the game - why don't the developers devote their energies to fixing that? |
Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
265
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:16:18 -
[500] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:DexterShark wrote:- I am not sure why all the station services have a circle around them. Presumably this is the Entosis counter, which is fine if those services are being contested, but it displays all the time. Can you confirm that this is a bug to be ironed out? You're right that the circles around the station services represent the entosis status of the service. Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration. Thanks for the feedback!
Please do not remove the circles on the disruptable services icons.
They are red when the service has been disabled, and this clearly shows which services are active and which are not, and need to remain visible when cloaking and scouting a station, without having to select them.
Players that do not want to see them should simply turn the services icons off in their brackets/overviews.
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope...
|
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Jager Bom
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:16:26 -
[501] - Quote
New icons are awful. |
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
228
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:17:38 -
[502] - Quote
OVERVIEW ICON FEEDBACK:
The immediate impression (not meant as "destructive" but honestly what went through my mind at first use):
Is it a stargate or a freighter? Wait, stargate is filled, or is that an oblonged planet symbol glitch? Is that a frigate or a squadron fleet booster icon symbol near me? Wait, another frigate now looks like the old depot symbol, but completely different from the other frigate... or wait.. what is that? Getting to our POS, suddenly a whole new slew of questions and pauses literally came into view: Is it a secure can or a laser battery now? Why do POS arrays and labs look so completely different from each other symbol-wise (honestly, I'm feeling a bit arcade-nostalgic: is it a "squiggly jellyfish" or an "open frog mouth" in an 8-bit arcade game)?
Then it kept hitting me: I have this weird feeling like I'm playing Pac-Man's and Frogger's love-child.
I couldn't get it out of my mind... And then I had my serious afterthoughts before constructing this feedback (for now):
Those questions waxing nostalgic in my mind (above) are examples of the many differentiating issues that went through my head continuously with what also seemed like a "lack of cohesion" to a basic build off an attempted idea of an "Overview overhaul".
However, it wasn't (and still isn't) making a lot of "connective/logical" sense. I suddenly became aware I was spending more time trying to figure out "what is what" in space rather than playing the game and "adjusting" - the oh so unthoughtfully unproductive response some have given conveyed with "oh you'll adjust" or "people don't like change" that some have responded with.
And THAT was clencher: "It isn't making sense". It didn't become "past tense". "What IS what?" continued with each system jump, each movement, each destination arrived at. Just when I thought I was getting some idea of "intent" of iconography, something else passed by me, or popped up in the Overview that continued my quandry.
If there was a "method to the madness" iconographic approach, then I had hoped I'd have understood it after a few system jumps/routine activity testing. But after 3 hours, I still wasn't adjusting. It became clear in my mind that this new set of symbols lacked cohesion/sense.
Example: Previously, a "bracket" rectangle with someone's name gave my brain an understanding that I was near a ship, and the shape/size of that simple bracket gave me a quick idea of relative size of that ship.. and I knew immediately it was a player's ship, not an NPC ship. Now, however, everything is not as it seems, and I wasn't even in a heavily populated system. Hell, it may have been a glitch, but I passed by two frigates: each one had DIFFERENT symbols. So just when I thought I understood "size", I failed. Then a freighter went by, and I didn't think "oh, another ship"... That was hinting to a problem for ship iconography. Also it hinted at a problem of consistancy.
Then the issue of objects other than ships came into the mix. The "method to the madness" was not obvious at all: If "solid" objects are "shaded"/"filled" symbols like planets, stations, and even the odd "pebble" like icon of an asteroid belt, then my brain asked the next logical question: Why are stargates shaded? Are they oval planets- wait, no, the aroow, but.. And then I questioned: why are Customs Offices and POS towers "hollow" (unshaded) squares? Even the labs, arrays and refineries (which are logically "solid" objects in space) are hollow, not shaded. They also may all be POS modules in orbit around a tower, but there is no shape-cohesion to make "sense" of. ("Is that a refinery or a hollow magnet?", seriously was a visual question my brain was flip-flopping back and forth on. Seriously.)
The lack of consistency is definitely something that should be re-addressed. After all, if your symbol for navigation to "warp to and jump through" a stargate icon is an arrow going through a HOLLOW, perfect CIRCLE, but the symbol for the stargate in the Overview just below those options is not a perfect circle AND it also is shaded, then something needs to be addressed on consistency. I do not look forward to seeing the various ship shapes and other symbols I'll have to sort out on a mission or when I visit a system like Jita, but if I feel that way already, the mental hesitation marks will remain indelible until some changes are made.
If a reverted "simple" bracket system and correction to the stargate and POS/outpost symbols are re-visited, re-addressed and redesigned - along with some color changes or options implemented (I was not able to determine an untouched from a touched wreck/can, for example), then perhaps this change would not be so jarring and continually affective to my visual assessment to gameplay every new relocation. And yes, if one reads this sentence correctly: It is possible that the Overview of the game can be "continually affective" and jarring to me now, in its current state, and therefore be "ineffective" to me the entire time I am not docked.
A point of curiosity for the developers working with other DEV groups on issue fixes:
Considering the (admittedly impressive) litany of "Misc:" notes CCP documented as "fixed" in the Patch Notes, such as "fixed capitalization error in description" here, "removed an extra space in mission wording" there... I had hoped there would have to have been some thought/discussion/effort to fixing actually reported, "broken" issues instead of "fixing" what was not, technically, "broken".
Were any consistently reported issues at all addressed?
I can see one that still is an issue: Since 2014, you still haven't addressed the inability to "Drag items to sell" for corporate selling of multiple items. I have been trying to pro-actively (and productively) report such issues with each upgrade via issues, bug tickets, and petitions since a year ago on that one alone. |
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:19:14 -
[503] - Quote
how i supposed to work out who to shoot now in lowsec before it was well simple a colour yes he red kill him yes he nuet kill him now , its what that oh i did'nt even no he was there ffsk he gone |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1661
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:27:33 -
[504] - Quote
Need to say that with these icons Eve Online lost significant part of it's appearance. These icons look like some draft. You know: when I develop some graphical application I create some fast simple icons to work on functionality. Few minutes in paint and i can work.
But these icons inside Eve Online environment? I don't know.... They don't belong here!
Will wait few days for some fixes... Else maybe it's time to make pause with the game.....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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W33b3l
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:28:27 -
[505] - Quote
I run the UI @ 90% windowed mode (almost have to windowed mode) and am having the same issue with he Icons. Hard to tell Industrial and cruisers apart. Although that was the same before and I just default to looking at the name anyway. The icons look pixilated, wich makes sense if its a scaling issue. Although the fact my monitors sit high and its on the upper right of my screen isnt helping. Once its fixed and I adjust my monitors and chair I should be fine.
Ive been having some serious issues launching the client as well. I cleared the game cache in the client loader and it fixed the problem.
The real issue I'm having is ship textures not loading correctly. So far is on the (aftermerket) skins only although I havnt tested default skins yet. All the skins are taking awhile to load but thats because the cache is cleared I hope. The real problem is that the ships either look like they are solid chrome or completely flat black instead of completely loading the textures. Im in the process of updating my drivers to see what happens. If it doesnt fix it I'll let you know.
I run the client graphically maxed out with a EVGA Nvidia GeForce GTX760 4BG GPU
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Mister Kreeper
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:30:41 -
[506] - Quote
OH goodie adding moar broken stuff , launcher has not worked in close to a year woohoo . today it impossible to play great job on the upgrades . BTW upgrading yourselfs right out of a job ............pfft |
Magnus Roden
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:33:04 -
[507] - Quote
"how is this guy flying a wreck?"
- everyone in EVE.
Excellence is the gradual result of always striving to do better.
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:36:27 -
[508] - Quote
I'd also like to point out that some ships with full quality settings have too much rust/dust. Golem is an example, also for example oracle. |
galenmar
R.D. Tech Industries Successful Slackers
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:39:21 -
[509] - Quote
icons ok but FIX THE DAMN LAUNCHER freezes up when trying to launch game And if I am lucky and can get to selection screen it takes too long to even load anything another fail and that much closer to unsubbing 2 accounts here please put back the stuff that was not broke and quit breaking things that work now and also the repair tool is a joke I try starting it and it freezes up
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Nightfox BloodRaven
State Protectorate Caldari State
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:42:17 -
[510] - Quote
i am sorry but if you aim was to give us a better awareness of the surroundings then how does overview icons in which u cant tell whats what really provide that?
i mean did you even test these? How can u justify that they improvement your awareness.. everything looks the same... |
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Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:43:18 -
[511] - Quote
CCP give me back my old icons,plenty of feedback has been brought to you that the current set of icons weren't any good.
-Certains objects didn't need a new icons to start with. -Form and shapes differ too much in the same category of ship size or usage. -Drones do not need an individual icons for each one of them but just a different size (L,M,HV) -Most of the icon set are too complex and counterintuitive.
CCP Surge has obviously ignored feedback and forced his opinion on the community ,despise several warnings that his icons set were disruptive and confusing.We told him repeatedly to do not bring them on TQ ,now deal with unsatisfied customers and the huge threadnaught to come.
Best regards |
Havenard
Havenard Corporation
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:43:45 -
[512] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote:OVERVIEW ICON FEEDBACK:
The immediate impression (not meant as "destructive" but honestly what went through my mind at first use):
Is it a stargate or a freighter? Wait, stargate is filled, or is that an oblonged planet symbol glitch?
...
Any change in the icons at all would cause the need of having to get used to the changes, this fact does not determine if the new icons are good or bad as even the best icons possible would have to undergo the same learning process from the players.
Regardless of they being good or bad, the icons did need change. Many icons were the same for multiple classes of ships, and they didn't have any connection with ship classes, in fact they had no creativity at all -- they were stupid squares.
Your feeling torwards changes is understandable, as you can see most players are having the same, but I'm sure you will get over it soon.
I personally didn't like some icons, like the Rookie Ship icon being so small, and the fact its smaller than the Drone's, but whatever.
What I know for a fact is that I've never seen a change that every single player agrees to be positive. Even if they made the game free there would be people complaining, which is precisely why its so hard to get CCP to hear anyone, because people just complain out of impulse and therefore their demands cannot be taken seriously.
So instead of throwing poop at things on first sight, lets be good reviewers and keep an open mind, give changes a chance, just to see how it works, and after some experience if we still agree its that bad, then I'm sure CCP will make the necessary adjusts.
Just as everyone else I too will have to get used to the changes, but I'm sure my IQ allows me to overcome this "challenge". That aside, I think the fact we now have distinct icons for each ship class, rats includeded, is pretty good news by itself.
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Sell Aideron
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:44:09 -
[513] - Quote
I appreciate the difficulty of designing new icons, but my god.. they're hideous.. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:46:13 -
[514] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I prefer to use the 90% setting since it gives more 'space' for various windows, scanning windows, chat tab box, etc. I don't do this due to small monitor size, I'm using a 32 inch 1080p flatpanel T.V. via it's HDMI port. When I'm in places I shouldn't be, solo, eating space rocks to reprocess and build from, I need all the space I can beg borrow and steal for D-Scan, Cargo Hold, Probe Scan, Places Tab to pop warp and leave if need be, and to just have a better view around my ship for paranoia checking. As I cannot scale many of those windows before they're unusable, it's 90% and text set to 11 as a compromise.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
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slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:49:05 -
[515] - Quote
hurrah!! I've just spend few minute today on EVE, my wife is so grateful for the big bug cake called EVE now... having major trouble with this game and patch... (oh, a new button!!! I'm going to resubscribe!!! gogogo! nahhh) too many freeze, problem etc....see ya in winter!!! (or not)
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Davina Sienar
The Misinterpretation of Silence Mean Coalition
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:57:28 -
[516] - Quote
Captain Pada wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/
These icons were much better.
exactly... logged in and was asking myself hm ? didnt they look diffrent in presentation / blog ??
but hell yeah PacMan Icons \o/ lets downgrade to EvE for Dummies hooray
its not about learning new stuff or get used to it...its still the main question: DOES IT IMPROVE THE GAME ?
and all the talk bout blahblah EvE Brand typical look ... blah .. then why redesign every ship and make it look like anykind of SciFi Game/Movie ?
btw dont forget to hire more US Personal ...will help, sure
every Patch the Motivation to continue playing goes down and down and ....
"need to get used to" pfft no just need to stop paying |
Pryce Caesar
Evil Young Flesh
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 00:58:33 -
[517] - Quote
A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
381
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:00:21 -
[518] - Quote
Koba Kyogen wrote:Strip out the new icons. Wasn't broken, didn't need fixing.
Give us the option to at least disable them.
I blame Iceland. All of it.
And people were worried about the possibility of a strike - as I see it, the strike would have prevented them from breaking things for at least a little while
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
General Xenophon
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:02:48 -
[519] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:Carnyx has been successfully deployed on June 2 during an extended downtime. Carnyx brings many new features to EVE Online, including fully revamped icons in space and in the overview, the first set of sovereignty changes, fantastic new graphic shaders, module rebalances, the Caldari Tech-3 destroyer "Jackdaw" and more. You can check out details of all these features on the new Updates webpage, here. The full details of all changes and improvements are available in the patch notes. For general discussion and feedback regarding Carnyx, please use this thread.Please report issues with the release on the PC in the Carnyx issues thread. For Mac users, there is, as always, a thread on the Macintosh forums for discussion of this release here.
Models for ships up close look great! Thanks!
What is with the Atari space invaders / Packman shapes for ships on the screen? Was there something wrong with what they were before? Is there an option to turn this back to the way it was? Its cool to see ship-type changed according to shapes, but not totally sold on this. |
eldeago
TalCorp Enterprises Care Factor
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:10:11 -
[520] - Quote
The reason I have enjoyed this game so much, was the realism of the graphics. Now this is like a cartoon game for children. The Icons totally suck. The targets you have painted on the stations, removes any reality of the game the rats are simply gay! Congrats on again totally screwing your player base! And yes I know I can quit anytime, and if I have to play a child's game I probably will. Good luck. |
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
383
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:11:11 -
[521] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading! There we have the "have patience, it takes a while" argument again. It was the same with the new UI icons. And guess what, I actually dislike them as much as on the day you introduced them. Sometimes I get the feeling that you tend to forget that most of us are adults and that some of us are quite capable to percieve problematic design decisions when they see them. Updating or modernizing the icons is perfectly ok in itself. Unfortunately your approach is fundamentally flawed in at least two ways. You seem to believe that a higher granularity improves the "at-a-glance awareness" and provides more information per se, so you conceived dozens of new icons. However, it seems you are oblivious to the fact, that information overload is a limiting factor in that regard. The threshold to information overload is affected by several factors, stress level and individual capability among them. The individual capability in turn is affected by various factors, too. With regard to EVE I'd include sleep and session time as variables. Basically this means, that you should focus on displaying important information while omitting less important information or at least make it optional. Too many of your icons give completely irrelevant information. If I had a say in this, I would axe several of the icons: Combat -1 (rookie ships are frigates), Industrial: - 3 (mining frigates are frigates and that leaves us with large and medium industrials), Drones: - 5 (1 icon for fighters/bombers, 1 icon for combat drones, 1 icon for non-combat drones). And that's conservative, you could remove far more icons and still have a working system. In addition your icons are seemingly designed with an artistic idea in mind (and are not even looking that good), partially forgetting that the icons are supposed to give tactical information in (space) combat situations. In combination with overview colors it's no longer easy to properly discern most of the icons. I'd suggest to look at military tactical icons for guidance. With regard to the general design I would suggest to replace the frigate triangle with an acute-angled triangle as in the capital letter "A" to give it a more dynamic, spaceship like look. For cruisers you could use a similar icon, a bit wider, perhaps with a flat top. At least redesign the cruiser icons so they don't look like monopoly houses anymore. Since I don't expect or believe that you will do anything to improve the mess you created with the news icons, it would be nice to make it optional to use them. Please give us the option to switch back to the old icons and let the players decide whether they want your new icons or not. P.S.: Btw, the link is broken.
This ^^^^ The failure with the icons is the same failure that is going on with the map - the idea that it has to be gee whiz neato to be any good. In reality for both the icons and map simplicity is more important then anything else. You should be able to look at the icons and the map and be able to tell from them at a glance what you need. However, as it is right now, simplicity is being sacrificed to make it look neat, resulting in the map and icons being so overly complex as to be useless. In my opinion the map is unfixable and should just be scraped. As for the icon - most of them need to be consolidated. All that is really needed is icons representing ships by size, capital, large, medium and small - and thats it. We dont need special icons for rookie ships or mining frigates. Hell the differences are so minimal and the icons so small as to make them nonsensical anyways.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Darkon Kagemamoru
Shattered Mists
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:15:59 -
[522] - Quote
Pryce Caesar wrote:A bizarre thing has happened. I think the 50 mm armours were replaced with 100 mm storyline armours.
Intentional change.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=425475&find=unread&_ga=1.179079271.2142787165.1428906158 |
Zan- nah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:16:26 -
[523] - Quote
eldeago wrote:The reason I have enjoyed this game so much, was the realism of the graphics. Now this is like a cartoon game for children. The Icons totally suck. The targets you have painted on the stations, removes any reality of the game the rats are simply gay! Congrats on again totally screwing your player base! And yes I know I can quit anytime, and if I have to play a child's game I probably will. Good luck.
Can I have your stuff
|
Total Newbie
Patriotic Tendencies Executive Outcomes
90
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:17:11 -
[524] - Quote
The saddest thing in all of this?
WE are the customer.
If any business treated customers with the disdain CCP does theirs, theyd be out of business..........
Am I being Ironic? |
Neckbeard Nolyfe
Zero Fun Allowed Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
71
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:18:59 -
[525] - Quote
New icons look completely ********. Can't believe you guys went live with them after they have been proven to be crap on singularity (performance and coherent perception wise). Not like my feedback makes much of a difference, everyone knows that if u want something done u go on reddit.
~lvl 60 paladin~
|
Orion Audene
Royale Ventures Ltd.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:20:23 -
[526] - Quote
I really miss the old Overview icons! The new icons look goofy & childish. Also, the game seems a bit more glitchy and noticeably lags during station undocking. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
730
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:21:39 -
[527] - Quote
ICONS.
Bottom line, after 30 pages of comments:
Turn that **** off, go back to old icons, assign a different artist team, and start again. |
loquacious7
Pawnstars INC The Obsidian Front
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:22:36 -
[528] - Quote
I think the game looks terrible with the icons on. *forgot to add constructive criticism other than BAD ICON at first. But OMG this is worse than captains quarters. :) |
Aiko Shinjiro
Mean Corp Mean Coalition
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:23:46 -
[529] - Quote
The only good thing bout the Icons and the Playstyle of beeing a lowsec Pirate: Just Ignore them -if the Icon is diffrent then that of station or gate: shoot it |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4947
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:24:22 -
[530] - Quote
Too many icons, that are too detailed for rapid recognition, and they render poorly at different resolutions and UI scalings.
As an exercise on visual recognition (I'm not recommending these as icons):
* Hollow triangle. * Hollow triangle with a single horizontal bar underneath. * Hollow triangle with a single dot above it.
* Filled triangle. * Filled triangle with a single horizontal bar underneath. * Filled triangle with a single dot above it.
Notice that none of the three elements can be mistaken for the other, even when rendered poorly.
The simple geometric shapes can also be easily described in text. |
|
General Xenophon
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:34:15 -
[531] - Quote
Neckbeard Nolyfe wrote:New icons look completely ********. Can't believe you guys went live with them after they have been proven to be crap on singularity (performance and coherent perception wise). Not like my feedback makes much of a difference, everyone knows that if u want something done u go on reddit.
BUT WAIT! People told me CCP listens if people PREVIEW the patch notes and give feedback BEFORE it comes out! OWAIT |
Pryce Caesar
Evil Young Flesh
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:48:45 -
[532] - Quote
Best place to sell them? Sounds like those who collected 50mm armour plates in missions can now make a profit off them.
P.S. In regards to the icon changes, I do not particularly care about it because I've only been playing for about a month, so I'm not particularly attached to the old system.
P.S II: So I take it the Hecate will be released in July? |
Circumstantial Evidence
183
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:49:00 -
[533] - Quote
Using Chribba's excellent forum research tool, I broke down the top 20 posters, on the icon topic. The data was snapped roughly an hour ago.
Conclusions: more people making posts here, expressed a negative opinion. Those who wrote a negative opinion, wrote more often. I was surprised that the total number of additional posts (votes?) by writing more of the same, didn't have a larger effect on the overall percentages, when just looking at post count.
Out of 20 unique characters:
12 - "don't like" (60%) 1 - "will get used to" ( 5%) 4 - "like" (20%) 3 - "no comment" (15%)
Out of 144 posts: Note: if a poster referred to icons in the majority of their posts, I counted all their posts as about icons, even if one was about another topic.
96 - don't like new icons (66.7%) 7 - I'll get used to them ( 4.9%) 24 - like new icons (16.7%) 17 - no posts about icons (11.8%)
Codes added in front, below:
0 - don't like new icons 1 - I'll get used to them 2 - like new icons 3 - no posts about icons Data used:
0 - epicurus ataraxia 12 (2,4%) 0 - Steijn 12 (2,4%) 0 - Joia Crenca 11 (2,2%) 0 - Natya Mebelle 10 (2,0%) 0 - Panterata 10 (2,0%) 1 - Jenn aSide 7 (1,4%) 2 - Ralph King-Griffin 7 (1,4%) 0 - Rivr Luzade 7 (1,4%) 0 - Sissy Fuzz 7 (1,4%) 2 - Trajan Unknown 7 (1,4%) 3 - Dominous Nolen 6 (1,2%) 0 - Koba Kyogen 6 (1,2%) 3 - Nemesis DCC 6 (1,2%) 0 - Spc One 6 (1,2%) 2 - Dradis Aulmais 5 (1,0%) 2 - Faruzen en Divalone 5 (1,0%) 0 - Lil' Brudder Too 5 (1,0%) 0 - Natascha Kerenski 5 (1,0%) 3 - Sexual White Chocolate 5 (1,0%) 0 - Tyr Dolorem 5 (1,0%) |
Andris Arickson
Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now.
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:54:02 -
[534] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here.
< snip >
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
Eve is a very "busy" game, often needing a lot of different sized and shaped windows on the screen at any one time, local, 1-2 extra chat windows, D-Scan, Overview column, intel channel/s, probe scan (anom) window, drones, etc.
This means that on my laptop I can't easily play at anything other than 90% to fit in everything I need.
On my 24" screen I can fit everything in and read it but sometimes I need windows to be smaller than the minimum at 100% scaling in order to fit in what I need.
Assuming I were to transition to a 4K 30" screen I would likely easily be able to fit everything and more on my screen due to the real estate and resolution gains.
If there were more UI options around the minimum size of windows and or font sizes then perhaps I could scale all the windows I need without the use of 90% scaling, thus bypassing the problem.
Unlike many of the other instant UI experts here on the forums I will give the new icons a try and form an opinion after a little more experience than a snap judgement.
The new shaders are very nice indeed. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
237
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 01:56:29 -
[535] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes.
T1 entosis links are 40M each currently, those are pretty expensive rookie ships. Have you had fun popping them? |
W33b3l
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:06:59 -
[536] - Quote
OK now that Ive had some time to play with it.
The first priority needs to be fixing the 90% scaling issue before anything else. I have to disable scaling to even remotely tell what the icons are and that is a SEVERE issue for me. Ide rather the new icons where not released with this issue but since they where, please work on fixing this first so we can all at least get used to them as fast as possible.
I havnt came across a Cap ship like a carrier yet, curious what those icons look like, but from what I have seen, ship wise, I adapted to the new icons fairly quickly sitting outside a trade hub station watching things fly by. Im actually fairly fond of the new ship icons (but only the ship icons) although again.. please fix the scaling.
Its is very hard to tell the difference between an NPC and Player ship by the icons alone. I can see that the NPC icons are shaded but I have to look really close to tell. The shading needs to be much more prominent.
Wrecks are also confusing. Flipping the icon for the wreck is a nice touch but having the diamond overlay on the top (while easy to see) obscures the ships icon too much and using the old method of just shading in the wreck icon would be MUCH more preferred.
The icons for all the different types of drones really needs to be removed. We all know the drone names by heart and this level of variety on the overview Is just too much to take in and process at once. It would be much better to either use the old icons, or settle for something more simple that just shows the size of the drone instead. aka small, medium, large, and possibly sentry. All the other types of drones say what they do in the name anyway. This is a very common complaint.
The new icons for the different types of asteroids is a nice touch however the triangle for the belt was better then the 3 dots (another common complaint).
However besides that, most of the other icons in space (except for the sun and planets in system) are just too confusing, aka all the complaints about POS mods and such. The icons for mobile depots look like they should be ships also. If you could revert the large amount of icons for all the deployable structures (including gate guns and billboards) back to what they where and fix the few issues with the rest it would help out a lot while keeping the player base reasonably happy and still implementing the reasons for the changes in the first place.
I like where you're going with a lot of the new icons, you just WAY over did it to the point of making things too confusing. Which seems to be a common theme in this thread.
Thank you. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:18:34 -
[537] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Spc One wrote:Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes. T1 entosis links are 40M each currently, those are pretty expensive rookie ships. Have you had fun popping them? Nah i ignored them, let them have fun with services. Guy was on station taking services.
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Xert Trassien
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:19:38 -
[538] - Quote
Carnyx successfully deployed ?? you got to be shitting us right ?? The new overview brackets are just ... well they just stupid. CCP have you sacked all the old staff and employed a bunch of knitwits or monkeys even ??? Hell its like looking at space invaders 20yrs ago
Fail is FAIL |
Kenzen Han Taro
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:20:31 -
[539] - Quote
Good job CCP, looks awesome.
Note : drifter wh's look dangerous |
Xert Trassien
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:26:42 -
[540] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
THE ISSUES ARE WITH THE NEW ICONS. They suck a$$ dont you guys get it ????
God help us all
|
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Michael Motsu
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:26:53 -
[541] - Quote
I like the graphical changes to the games but these overview icons are eye cancer to me and everyone else I've talked to. Nothing was wrong with the original ones, and I doubt anyone has ever said "I wish these squares were triangles and house looking". I'd like to see the old icon come back the the games asap so it is easy to tell a drone from anything else or an npc BS to a frig. |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:32:38 -
[542] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
Hi Surge, and CCP Art Team.
I hope you take the time to read my comments regarding the new icon set, I've been playing EVE for nigh-on a decade myself, and have spent the time in space doing various forms of PVP warfare.
The new Icon set has a fantastic philosophy, the idea behind the pointy and flat tops, the lines and other little details are very intelligent design language. But...
They are not 'at-a-glance' icon sets, they are in fact very far from being intuitive during combat in EVE. I've been on SiSi for a few hours in the past few weeks during our alliance tournament practice matches so I've had to endure the new changes and am totally opposed to the new icon sets from a combat perspective.
The core issue is the amount of detail you put in, it's the complete opposite of the old icon set which was absolutely fantastic and easy to follow during intense circumstances: Squares were player ships - every time. "+"s were NPC ships, whether they be Agents, Pirates, Mission Rats or Faction Agents "x"s were drones, it didn't matter small/medium/large/fighter - they were drones of some type. Wrecks were these odd little triangle things that were like very little else in game.
These four things are the most you'll interact with in EVE PVP, they need to each stand alone and be discernable at-a-glance to understand the situation you're engaged in. The old icon set despite age communicated this brilliantly and stood the test of time for players in use for over a decade. Considering the UI is the only way most players know what is going on, changes here seem to be taken lightly and without cautious review or player buy-in. Even the option to flick back to old is not there which is what is causing most of the fury.
Okay now that I've explained what worked in the old set, lets look at what doesn't work in the new set.
- First off - there is too much detail, simplify the design. - Drone icons are now bigger than frigate hulls and stand out a lot more - even though the Frigate hull a far more threatening opponent than a drone. - There are far too many ship icons now, you already need to remember hundreds of ship names and classes, let alone icon sets that are this specific. - Place 20 pilots on a grid and have each of them drop 5 drones, then set them to fight. In small-gang meta it is very confusing and hard to see what you are targeting or shooting, drones and ships are not discernable. - Wrecks and drones and ships are too alike, they do not stand out each on their own - Take a look at this image ( https://i.imgur.com/ighoK8j.png ) - this is a small 11 v 10 fight, yet it is very hard to see what is going on from this view (at a glance). If you sit and study it, you can get it, but not with a quick look before you go back to managing module heat.
In my opinion these four things should look nothing alike: * Ships * Drones * NPCs * Wrecks
Everything else is lesser used and can be studied, but the above 4 are things that require view priority.
Probably the most silly thing in this whole debacle is how little attention was payed to the player feedback from SiSi, and how quickly you implemented this icon set.
Please allow players to use the old set while you polish the new set. I would love to use them once you achieve the above objectives.
Cheers.
Loading signature...
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Urbusk P'Tchu
Westward Bound
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:33:06 -
[543] - Quote
Really . This must be a late April fools joke . Total trash . Please find a way to let us change this back . I know change is the only consistent in this world . but wow . |
Amdison Habe
Leng Technology Group
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:33:22 -
[544] - Quote
i've been playing now for about 6 months and i wanted to make a comment about the overview icons and general feel of the star map.
to keep it short: i liked the extremely simple icons and the /very/ low-tech-looking scanning map.
the simple blue grid scanning spheres over a black & white orbital map (with some red, yellow, and green icons) provided a very realistic, utilitarian, and almost gritty reality to the game. some of that appeal may come from the fact that i didn't grow up with ipods or any of the modern operating systems, and i understand some would see this look as half-done or lazy.
having that super-simple language of symbols and icons contributed to a special language, almost like an inside joke, that added to the reality of the game for me.
i understand that lowering the barriers to entry by doing things like making the icons (maybe) a little more intuitive will make the game more accessible to more people...which will hopefully result in more fun for me (specifically through more funding for CCP).
the biggest draw to me, though, for eve was the fact that it is pointedly /not/ for everyone. making people commit to reading and processing information, even learning a somewhat-cryptic icon language, meant to me that i would find a community with a high percentage of serious players. underpants-mailbox-dancers (read: WoW) need not apply.
you'll find no rage or threats of quitting in this message, i have no intention of leaving eve any time soon; i just wanted to make my contribution to the discussion what with being a new citizen and all... |
Urbusk P'Tchu
Westward Bound
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:44:04 -
[545] - Quote
Xert Trassien wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:[quote=Xen Solarus]So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
THE ISSUES ARE WITH THE NEW ICONS. They suck a$$ dont you guys get it ????
God help us all [/q
Really . I take it this is something u r going to shove down are throats . CCP . Total trash. |
W33b3l
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:48:07 -
[546] - Quote
Ive also been having issues with the station environment not loading when I dock since the update. I thought it was my video drivers but it isnt. It always works when I log in, but when I dock from space I get a black background. Usually the only way to get it to work is to relog.
GTX760
|
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:54:48 -
[547] - Quote
some wrong with the warp?? and the new icon in 90% UI scaling is really bad!!!! |
Simon Ijonen
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:57:16 -
[548] - Quote
I wouldnt call it successfully deployed while many of us cant even start the game. Honestly, if a patch breaks things then DONT RELEASE IT. Dont hold to a schedule and give us something so half baked. |
Dartholemus
Repercussus Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 02:57:24 -
[549] - Quote
I recommend everyone open a support ticket for icons - it's clearly a glitch. |
Arzi Reece
Katniss Everdeen Pride
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:03:52 -
[550] - Quote
Having issues downloading the launcher update, repair tool did not work
Im paying for Eve I cannot play Eve I WANT TO PLAY EVE
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Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
55
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:06:05 -
[551] - Quote
Main issue seems to be peeps do not like the new icons.
Reminds me of New Coke! |
Odil Enskij
Cagey sloggers
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:07:17 -
[552] - Quote
overview icons very bad overview now is mess
return old icons, or do it selectable
"ISK - the ULTIMATE GUIDE to EVE ONLINE"
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Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
494
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:08:13 -
[553] - Quote
Regarding new icons
Could "Generic" just mean too lazy to do it right?
If I had been expecting anything decent I would be surprised at this but CCP does have a track record to maintain. Why do it right when halfassed gets you by.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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Flick Narbotan
Deep Deep Derps
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:12:40 -
[554] - Quote
Another -1 to the new icons. Too complicated and very hard to see on a 90% UI. |
Kione Keikira
Sleepless Guardians Unreachable
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:14:02 -
[555] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
There is one problem with the current icons, the fact that they're right in the middle of the ship which means there is always something obscured. Sometimes it's not too much of a problem, but when you're trying to see which way a ship is travelling at a glance it is rather difficult when all I can see is an icon. I suggest you keep the faint 4 corners around the object / ship but offset the icon to the lower right so it doesn't obscure the actual object. Kind of a halfway point between the new icons and the old brackets. Another nice feature would to have the 4 corners expand as the ship gets closer, so nothing is ever obscured and you have a sense of distance without having to look at the overview.
Regarding the actual icons themselves rather than their placement, what happened to these? http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/ORVAR_1.png They look a lot more polished and representative than the current icons which seem too simple and a little mismatched.
Master of being misunderstood.
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1421
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:19:12 -
[556] - Quote
So there was a lot of talk elsewhere, and previously, about taking color out of the UI because we distinguish things faster by shape. (Hence, the new neocom icons, etc.) Now, we have this new set of overview icons which force us to rely on color much more. The shape distinctions between players and rats, for example, are minimal. Does this mean we should expect our best reaction times to be slower across the board when dealing with the overview in space? Not a good move. Besides, the old icons were intuitive. I didn't really have to learn them. They were basic and easy. Nothing to memorize, no learning curve, just bam. Instantly useable for a new player. Which brings up another issue. Over the past year or two we've seen a lot of changes here and there geared at making the new player learning curve less steep and more accessible, and even at making some things more streamlined for older players. Well, these new icons also work against that effort, taking things back in the new direction. Expect some frustration, and I'd bet ultimately, a lower percentage of subs from trial players. Seriously.
I'll give the new icons some time, but my first impression is that I don't like them. Maybe after some time to get used to them, I'll like them better. I do see the value in being able to distinguish between a frigate and a destroyer, for example, at a glance. We'll see.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Circumstantial Evidence
184
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:23:18 -
[557] - Quote
Dartholemus wrote:I recommend everyone open a support ticket for icons - it's clearly a glitch. I read this as sarcasm, but for the literal minded: Support will refer tickets back to the forums, and close them. A waste of everyone's time.
CCP Surge: 90% scaling is invaluable for maximizing vertical text info, especially the number of items in the overview list without scrolling. Although, as screen resolutions push higher toward "Quad HD," it will be used less. You must have data on player's settings. I hope you will / can pre-render a set at 90%.
I agree that supporting two systems will be a pain. FC's will have to know both icon sets, because pilots in their fleets could be using both.
Giving Color options for icons would be great. Giving back control of UI color schemes, would also be great.
Not taking over the camera, to ram my eyes through each gate jump would also be great, but now I'm going firmly off topic. Its cool to look at the first few times, but that "wow factor" I remember from the Fanfest video presentation, wore off after the first week it was introduced. If I don't need to see space, I take all long trips on the map screen. I think the gate jump animation should be more like the in-system warp tunnel effect, that doesn't take over your camera viewpoint.
For players complaining about drone icons: its very helpful to create overview tabs / bracket profiles, so you only see them when you need to see them. In large fleet fights, drones are usually taken off overview and in-space brackets, to preserve client FPS, and cut down on screen clutter.
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Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
264
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:24:51 -
[558] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote: FC's will have to know both icon sets, because pilots in their fleets could be using both. Well if FC broadcasts a target people will see it no matter what icon set is used.
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Arzi Reece
Katniss Everdeen Pride
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:28:10 -
[559] - Quote
Gabriel Ironfist wrote:Arzi Reece wrote:Can't Launch the game....Great I think this is one of the most constructive comment CCP got for this Release... On the launcher, under settings there is a " Run Repair tool" Option m8. Try that out. 99.9% it solves problems....
Repair tool doesnt work at all. It crashes my launcher. I tried downloading the new launcher and it wont download even 1 Mb. |
Box That Beat
Boxxed
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:28:51 -
[560] - Quote
lol rat wrecks look like roids... what a mess ....... GREAT WORK ccp make a mess for all... And thanks for the controled response of well wait and see do ur self a favor and fire the people that did this mess |
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Box That Beat
Boxxed
12
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:30:13 -
[561] - Quote
Arzi Reece wrote:Gabriel Ironfist wrote:Arzi Reece wrote:Can't Launch the game....Great I think this is one of the most constructive comment CCP got for this Release... On the launcher, under settings there is a " Run Repair tool" Option m8. Try that out. 99.9% it solves problems.... Repair tool doesnt work at all. It crashes my launcher. I tried downloading the new launcher and it wont download even 1 Mb.
Thought it was just my computer doing this.... been having problem for a week now |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:32:31 -
[562] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:.
For players complaining about drone icons: its very helpful to create overview tabs / bracket profiles, so you only see them when you need to see them. In large fleet fights, drones are usually taken off overview and in-space brackets, to preserve client FPS, and cut down on screen clutter.
You make it sound like this is a non issue. Think about what you're advocating here: "If you can't tell things apart at a glance, set everything on separate overview tabs and flick between them during PvP"
This is a ridiculous notion and completely apologist for the terrible design. It worked fine before, now it doesn't, we should not have to work around icons being obtuse.
Also eve PvP extends beyond fleet fights. Every fight I am in I need to see players, drones, wrecks and NPCs, at all times, without switching brackets. Bracket switching is not tenable when fighting in the smallgang meta, you'll miss something critical and die.
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RuriHoshino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:47:04 -
[563] - Quote
So CCP, like most artists, have created something that they love, but that no one can use or understand. |
Kiera Oramara
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:48:05 -
[564] - Quote
ok how can i get the old ones back ? This new ones is WAY to messy :(
HOTFIX them back plz |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3434
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:49:48 -
[565] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:............
Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? I think all NPCs should have some color, other than white. Red is already used for hostiles. Maybe yellow for NPCs that are not hostile, but you should not attack, like CONCORD, or customs officers? Green for ones that are friendly?
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Tyranis Marcus
Bloody Heathens
1422
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 03:51:17 -
[566] - Quote
Well, at least the new marauder skins are freaking cool.
Do not run. We are your friends.
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Abraxcis Caine
Crack Rock Inc. Serenitas Solutus
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:51:30 -
[567] - Quote
Yay for Serp skins!!! Black is back. Thanks for listening CCP.
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Souiginto
Erratic. Easily Excited
5
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:58:10 -
[568] - Quote
1. new Icons are terrible - old overview was perfectly fine + they look like they got created in MS Paint
I think "Deal with it but we might (probably not) consider your feedback in a couple weeks" just cements the current stance CCP takes by forcing unwanted, unnecessary changes onto the players and this is definitely not the way a company that wants to keep their paying customers should go.
2. ship thumbnails in Hangar are way too bright/overexposed
3. good job on most of the effects/shaders - some of the SKINs look really sweet now, kinda disappointed in the Aliastra one tho |
Ahed Sten
22
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Posted - 2015.06.03 03:59:51 -
[569] - Quote
Lots of whining going on about the new icons. Not surprised.
The old icon system had been in place for a decade. If CCP expected anything BUT vast quantities of tears following the change they're either stupid or naive, and they're neither stupid nor naive.
Calm down and take a breather. You will get used to the new icons with time. |
Joana Allier
United Conflict Space Command Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 04:00:37 -
[570] - Quote
CCP, I appreciate the effort, very nice stuff, but, please for the love of god, don't give us some 1900's pixel-ed icons... this is a space ship game, futuristic.... and yet we get this pixel-ed crap that looks like it was made in 1998 version of paint. I like all of the rest of the game changes, (WOOT for ceptor burning 30 jumps just to chase off a wh gang entosesing one of our stations). but please, please give us some icons that looks sorta futuristic. |
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
794
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:01:38 -
[571] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? To cram everything I need on the screen.
The EVE UI has always been huge. You need space for the overview with all the required columns for PvP, you need to find a place for the fleet window, drones window, locked targets, HUD, chat windows, local, notification widget, cargo (for boosters etc) and after all that you still want to be able to see a decent amount of the space scene.
Now I use a 6 screen setup, so I do have the option of spanning EVE across multiple screens, but that means sacrificing the option to run as many visible clients... and I don't think it should be necessary to have two screens per client just to get a good EVE UI.
The only good option I have found is to play in 90% UI scaling. I activated that feature when it was first introduced, cried hallelujah, then didn't look back...
...until someone decided to make the overview terrible at 90% UI scaling because of reasons. |
Skye McDonald
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:15:22 -
[572] - Quote
Well done CCP! You have managed to take a huge step backwards with your "new and improved" overview icons. I really do not understand your logic for the change. Extremely disappointing! A few pluses and a gigantic minus. Time for a Hotfix for the icons.
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Heavy Hauler
Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:18:29 -
[573] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote: What specifically don't you like about the new icons?
Very simple: I scout and look at a fleet gate camping with drones out. All i sees is a huge ball of very similar icons because drones are especially at high resolutions or on laptops very hard do differentiate from ships.
What would help from my point of view is when drones look very different from ships. The other icons are ok for me. |
Nick Xander
POS Party Low-Class
2
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:21:23 -
[574] - Quote
Would give my first impression if I could get past Login Complete, processing bulk data.....several re-logs and a reboot of the PC and 2 hours later still can't get in.....
USA / Alaska Standard TIme Zone / Beer/ http://www.twitch.tv/ripteye
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Circumstantial Evidence
185
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:22:39 -
[575] - Quote
Joana Allier wrote:CCP, I appreciate the effort, very nice stuff, but, please for the love of god, don't give us some 1900's pixel-ed icons...[..snip..] please, please give us some icons that looks sorta futuristic. LoL - they did! Take a look back at the original concept. It was rejected, some suggesting too much 'style w/o substance, form over function.' I'm very surprised that CCP was willing to practically throw out what must have been the product of many meetings and art effort, taking the time to rework the designs. We might have been looking at those icons, a month ago. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2456
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:32:05 -
[576] - Quote
so the new starmap uses the old icons still, is this known? and would this be something for the map team or the game of drones team?
When can we expect the transition there? |
Kasarch
Surreal corp The Afterlife.
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:39:02 -
[577] - Quote
OMG. Gate icons looks like someone make screenshot, saved it in jpeg with maximal quality loss, after this you maked screenshot of resulting image and saved it with in jpeg, and then result croped in mspaint.
Also Territorial Claim Units looks strange, when warping in on gate... oh no, is not TCU, is frig-size! :facepalm: I'm warping to POS and what I see? Correct! I see Large Collaidable Structure instead of Control Tower, and two Corporate Hangar arrays instead of Cynosural Field Generator and Jump Bridge.
Please, CCP, make me option to use classical icons, it's more than enough for this game. |
pugal
The Executives Executive Outcomes
2
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:51:01 -
[578] - Quote
So another terribad change where CCP didn't listen to constructive criticism from the SiSI testers How unusual. Your Icons while very shiny and pretty are about as useful as the lump on your shoulders. You didn't listen previously and you suggest that constructive criticism will help you now? you don't and wont listen so why should we bother with being constructive. How's this for constructive Just finishing my evac from null sec to avoid the **** storm that your sov changes have wrought. I'm down to 2 accounts from 5 and wondering if it's worth my time to see if you are capable to admit that some of your ideas are just bad. You've done so in the past so I'm hopefull. and for those who are "oh can't handle change can you" get over yourself. change for changes sake is not positive. The eyestrain thing is serious for those of us whose eyes are barely useable as it is. |
Cole Minor
Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 04:57:39 -
[579] - Quote
So another terribad change where CCP didn't listen to constructive criticism from the SiSI testers How unusual. Your Icons while very shiny and pretty are about as useful as the lump on your shoulders. You didn't listen previously and you suggest that constructive criticism will help you now? you don't and wont listen so why should we bother with being constructive. How's this for constructive Just finishing my evac from null sec to avoid the **** storm that your sov changes have wrought. I'm down to 2 accounts from 5 and wondering if it's worth my time to see if you are capable to admit that some of your ideas are just bad. You've done so in the past so I'm hopefull. and for those who are "oh can't handle change can you" get over yourself. change for changes sake is not positive. The eyestrain thing is serious for those of us whose eyes are barely useable as it is.
Yeah what he said and everyone else who hates the Icons.
Cole Minor |
DaveBC
Unknown Crusade
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:06:43 -
[580] - Quote
Would luv to critique the patch. But I can't get download to go past 2.0 GB. Not sure what's up just hangs there. |
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Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:13:48 -
[581] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
The new icons are good, but in the 90% scaling just terrible and unusable, and why the design team did not aware this problem before release?? many people using 90% UI come on!! |
Kallikor
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:21:20 -
[582] - Quote
I have a vertical astigmatism and while my glasses help a lot, they don't help enough for these new ship icons to be usable. As soon as I'm targeted they become unreadable. It's hard to tell the difference between ship sizes anymore. This is going to make pvp pretty difficult and I'm pretty much going to be forced to use the overview tabs to tell what's what. In light of this, can you give us like 10 overview tabs so those of us without perfect eyesight can still keep track of things? |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
480
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:27:23 -
[583] - Quote
I have decent vision, but even I have a hard time with these icons. Not saying we shouldn't have new ones, but these are too small and hard to distinguish. |
Valkin Mordirc
1085
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:34:00 -
[584] - Quote
I know a lot of people are unhappy with the new UI and such.
Personally I'm not fond of it right now, but I am at least willing to give it some time in order to feel it out and see if it's better.
Right now I'm getting helmet fire. =S
#DeleteTheWeak
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AdmiraI Thrawn
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
8
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:34:31 -
[585] - Quote
There are so many wrecks on my overview ! Noctis is my favorite ship now ! |
Janeway84
Def Squadron Pride Before Fall
167
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:47:30 -
[586] - Quote
New icons feel fresh and crazy! gonna take some time relearning them, drone icons and starbase structure icons look awesome, wh icon and sun too. Destroyer icon looks like the old wreck icon but flipped upside down. I feel like the container icon is too detailed, but it sticks out at least
From most ships I seen i give 2 thumbs up for the new textures giving all the ships and pos modules some extra character! I noticed some of the static objects actually have animations, very nice touch! The Pac man yellow on stargates when you set destination feels odd at first but you get used to it.
Haven't tried the new starmap again since last release, but I will try to give it a little time this weekend to check out the changes. |
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
5
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:51:54 -
[587] - Quote
Being constructive with brevity.....
A massive backward step..Dump the new icon set, they are not fit for purpose.. and revert back to old set asap
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James IV Enderas
Jameco Industries The Big Dirty
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 05:55:45 -
[588] - Quote
Could we please for the love of god get the ability to pause the training que of another character on the same account from the one were logged into and trying to train something on. With this game being over 10 years old I would have thought this would have been addressed in a much earlier update. It just doesn't make sense that when the game itself recognizes that one of my other characters is training why there isn't a simple option of pause toon 1 to enable on toon 2 that I'm logged into. Right now i have to exit and log in pause then log out and log back in to the one i'm playing. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
279
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:08:46 -
[589] - Quote
Janeway84 wrote:The Pac man yellow on stargates when you set destination feels odd at first but you get used to it. Where do I go? Oh yeah just follow the pac-man.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Zeus Cronus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
4
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:15:49 -
[590] - Quote
This patch should have been named Return of Spaceinvaders. |
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Sso
The Warp Core Stabilizers Tactical Narcotics Team
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:21:53 -
[591] - Quote
So much old people complaining!!! I like the new icons! Why some people will say the old ones was better, is beyond me.
Good job CCP
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Mar Drakar
LDK Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
71
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:22:14 -
[592] - Quote
In light of all the negativity, I wan to say *well done* CCP, the different shades of rectangles and math signs was a relic from before I started playing (10+ years) and it's about time those were dumpstered.
It's a bit strange now that everytime I see interceptor I'm like "why would someone anchor mobile depot here", but I'm sure this will pass, for me and for others.
I hope that all the old module icons are being worked on too, as they are a bit jarring in current aim to have "light based" UI that you guys are going to.
Another thing that CCP SHOULD DO is a one to one comparison of old vs new icon, especially for ships, just to shut up all the nerds who cry about this "new unreadable thing", maybe make a quiz where you need to select what the bracket means vs what the new icon means. All in all need more communication, education and maybe some gamification to "sell" this change to masses, but I'm sure I would hate to go back to old ones after a month of using these.
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HW5hadow
Ireco Industries Zombie Pony Express
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:39:08 -
[593] - Quote
Actually I feel like I could get use to the new ship icons. You can see the mapping by opening ISIS. I am not a fan of the Industrial icons though , especially the freighter (maybe start with a trapezoid base for indies and a trapezoid + bar for freighters?). Also didn't like the carrier icon or the dread, but it wasn't really a deal breaker. I feel like you should be a little more consistent with the underlining bar.
I do want to note that the new icons don't work well on 90% UI scaling which I and many people use, so that needs to be fixed. Otherwise good job, keep iterating on it, people will eventually accept it. It is something that was long due for an update. Icons have pretty much looked the same since i started playing 7+ years ago. Frigates - Battleship icons make a decent amount of sense. Drone icons look awesome. POS icons aren't to shabby either. |
Drilla
V.I.N.T.A.G.E Sons of Seraphinus
7
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:50:50 -
[594] - Quote
It blows my mind that CCP doesn't make the icons user customizable like the rest of the overview - why can't we have icon packs for this, then people can choose what they want and we can crowdsource better overview icons as I'm sure the collective icon design talent of the userbase > CCP inhouse design team.
The rest of the patch seems fine but the overview icons are such a massive screw up that it completely overshadows any good in the patch. |
HW5hadow
Ireco Industries Zombie Pony Express
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:51:37 -
[595] - Quote
James IV Enderas wrote:Could we please for the love of god get the ability to pause the training que of another character on the same account from the one were logged into and trying to train something on. With this game being over 10 years old I would have thought this would have been addressed in a much earlier update. It just doesn't make sense that when the game itself recognizes that one of my other characters is training why there isn't a simple option of pause toon 1 to enable on toon 2 that I'm logged into. Right now i have to exit and log in pause then log out and log back in to the one i'm playing.
They just want to annoy you into paying for multiple accounts or multiple training. :/ |
Aeon Veritas
Lobach Inc. Easily Offended
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:52:28 -
[596] - Quote
Do I understand that correctly that we can pre-set our default vulnerability timers but they are useless until after Aegis? That would leave the sation Services 24/7 vulnerable. Hopefully a misunderstanding of mine...
Yesterday I did a Little PVE and I have to say those new icons are not as self explaining as the old ones.... I confused on an regular basis BC with BS because the icons for BC look bigger. +1 for this solution! |
AstrumVir Amatin
League of Gentlemen SpaceMonkey's Alliance
4
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:54:38 -
[597] - Quote
Overview icons , bad bad .. please guys cud you make an option for people who like old overview icons , couse i can't get use to new icons they looks way 2 big and confusing special for pvp they looks like structures or somthing ... |
HW5hadow
Ireco Industries Zombie Pony Express
0
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Posted - 2015.06.03 06:58:59 -
[598] - Quote
DO THIS :D +2 |
Circumstantial Evidence
186
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Posted - 2015.06.03 07:01:21 -
[599] - Quote
Aeon Veritas wrote:Do I understand that correctly that we can pre-set our default vulnerability timers but they are useless until after Aegis? That would leave the sation Services 24/7 vulnerable. Hopefully a misunderstanding of mine... fyi
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Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
494
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Posted - 2015.06.03 07:04:56 -
[600] - Quote
Aeon Veritas wrote:Do I understand that correctly that we can pre-set our default vulnerability timers but they are useless until after Aegis? That would leave the sation Services 24/7 vulnerable. Hopefully a misunderstanding of mine... Yesterday I did a Little PVE and I have to say those new icons are not as self explaining as the old ones.... I confused on an regular basis BC with BS because the icons for BC look bigger. +1 for this solution! Station services will be vulnerable 24/7 even after Aegis - It is part of the design that they be vulnerable at all times.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1489
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:06:38 -
[601] - Quote
The icons are annoying. It is overly confusing that NPC ships have the exact same icons as player ships. No, the faint grey filling does not make a difference. At all. The shapes are what matter and everytime I warp to a gate in High sec, I now see tons of BS and frigates and have to watch my overview to make sure that there are no player ships or that there are player ships. This is not "more intuitive and it does not give more useful information".
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative.
405
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:10:48 -
[602] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:I think my biggest issue with the icons currently, is the inability to tell what's a Friendly NPC and what's a Player at Stargates, didn't really notice it testing on SiSi because I never saw another player in space. It would be nice to at least have the NPCs able to be set to a different colour in states or similar change. To help illustrate my point from earlier, please consider this screenshot I just took in game, http://gyazo.com/4529e9cde09498760554042b64f53d00
Now tell me which icon/s are the NPCs and which are the Player/s?
Frankly if I didn't have those specific NPCs filtered out on my overview I wouldn't be able to tell you either. |
Jagious
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:14:49 -
[603] - Quote
Blood Enslaver wrote:You people really are afraid of learning new things.
Yeah but when games get a bunch of useless changes that dont need to be changed in the first place, it ruins the gameplay for the veterens. I dont want to see EvE end up like WoW unrecognizable, dull, and easy |
Aeon Veritas
Lobach Inc. Easily Offended
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:16:46 -
[604] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Aeon Veritas wrote:Do I understand that correctly that we can pre-set our default vulnerability timers but they are useless until after Aegis? That would leave the sation Services 24/7 vulnerable. Hopefully a misunderstanding of mine... fyi Well, thanks for the information... |
sthymj
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:28:56 -
[605] - Quote
I'm sorry but the new icons are just horrible. Yes Im sure we will all get used to them, eventually, thats because humans can get used to anything given enough time, even torture.
Why the hell didnt you go with the icons described in the Dev Blog?
Please allow us to opt out and use the old set until you work out how to fix them.
Thanks |
Shon Anzomi
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:32:38 -
[606] - Quote
I haven't found anything about loot tables being changed, but yesterday I made 400 million from two HS sites - one Dread Gurista had 3 deadspace modules on him, other guy had Worm + another modules.
Maybe just luck, but basically all faction spawns had valuable loot on them.
Also got two escalation from roughly 5 basic hideaways. Both escalations led to lowsec though - first one leading 7 jumps from the place I was, second just four. I guess now it will try to always escalate to lowsec?
The overview thing did confuse the hell out of me, but I guess its just matter of getting used to. To be honest, I don't see the point really...
Suggestion: since you overhauled the icons, why not changing the icons for wrecks also? Just turn the NPC icon upside down and the one with outline will indicate empty wreck, icon with fill will indicate wreck with loot. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
79
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:42:28 -
[607] - Quote
Claymore, Lebowski, Surge,
Today fix will be for the old icons right?
As you can see more then 70% of the ppl are for the old one. |
Souiginto
Erratic. Easily Excited
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:44:08 -
[608] - Quote
No idea but I see loads of deployables... |
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:48:10 -
[609] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Thank you for all your feedback so far. Actually those overview icons are not that bad. BUT! Can we please have ye olde colored neocom icons back? It's been months since you destroyed them, and I still miss their look. My nostalgia tears me apart when I watch youtube videos. How awesome they were and how blunt they are now. I'm not colorblind, why do you make me feel like I am? |
Lady Magneta
grupa gru
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 07:52:34 -
[610] - Quote
"Frequency of Burner Missions offered by level 4 Security agents has been lowered."
So yeah, why don't we bring back the dull and disgustingly bad "normal" level 4s, which we had the pleasure to grind on the last decade. Burners were are great change and a good risk for isk reward for those willing to take it, I noticed this change was not so small after all, even by adding a new Angel Cartel burner ( which has the same 300k reward and 1800 lp bug the others had when first introduced ), the rate of burner offers was lowered by a not so small margin. This just makes me sad, it was a fun and quick isk to be had. |
|
Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
179
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:00:21 -
[611] - Quote
Constructive feedback for the Carnyx update:
The new icons are terrible. How do I disable them?
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
798
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:10:28 -
[612] - Quote
I think that forcing all EVE players, with their many diverse tastes and requirements, to tolerate one centrally mandated UI skin is doomed to failure.
It would be far better to allow the EVE community to produce their own skins.
I certainly wouldn't choose to have the old skin or this new one, because they were both designed by someone who has very different tastes to me and quite obviously doesn't play the game in the same way I do. |
Steroidastroid Ormand
Trident Enterprises Inc
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:13:17 -
[613] - Quote
Just another reply about new icons (yes they're awful) - With the old overview I was just sweeping my eye across the window and in 1 second I got all the info that I need! - Now with the new one, even if I learn what each icon means, I will still need much more time to analyze it because I can't just sweep my eye, I have to look specificaly at each icon and think: "Uh... the cruiser icon with a bar underneath it... right, that's a battlecruiser!.. oops I got killed already?" - And of course: npc friendly ships looking just like player ships is a bad idea - npc hostile ships... at least they're still red, but same here: you need to look for 5 seconds to understand who's a frig and who's a bs. (they should be at least more bold)
And some small things: where is the logic? - why capsule icon is larger than a rookie ship? - why shuttle icon is larger that a rookie ship? - and seriously? a special icon for a Venture? (that is smaller than a shuttle) - and a special icon for orca?? for real? - jumps freighter icon is just too large and i should be the same as orca's - MTU and mob. depot icons are too large. (why it's SO large???) - And at last - why ship icons aren't sorted??? (by the icon type)
PS: you said you have a team working on this? A WHOLE TEAM?????? |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1791
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:13:59 -
[614] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Removing them when they aren't moving or you don't have them selected is on our list for the next iteration.
I'd suggest removing them when they are 100% captured by the owner and not selected. "Not moving" doesn't sound like the wise thing to do, since a 50% disabled service would probably interest pilots, even if its not moving anymore.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
|
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:16:15 -
[615] - Quote
John WarpingSlow wrote:The overview icons... Oh god.
Is there any way to go back to old overview?? Don't take it wrong I really do like most of your new things, like colorful anomalies and signatures indicators...but that overview...cmon. I don't say get rid of it, just let people use old one too. |
Vitaly Just
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:18:33 -
[616] - Quote
I like new overview icons And yes, we need time to get used to it, but now overview has become much more informative then before.
And graphical changes with ships are AWESOME! |
KazakArkov
Machine Heart Gaming
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:22:56 -
[617] - Quote
Patch crashed my PC and caused me to loose a Vargur, I'm telling ya it was not as much fun as it sounds. Had to reinstall the entire game again after several times of trying to repair the game. Fun times. |
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:26:23 -
[618] - Quote
Nami Miyasaki wrote:The icons are awesome!
Objectively good artistic work.
Only reason why people dont like them is because they havent become used to associate the icons yet.
So how many ship people should wreck to learn the new icons? this is terrible. We need option "go back to old overview", that should be easy for so good team of programmers. |
Steroidastroid Ormand
Trident Enterprises Inc
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:27:18 -
[619] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness?
Not icon color. Just make player ships look more different than npcs. bolder maybe |
Arbor Wattle
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:31:28 -
[620] - Quote
Why is the patch so big. I just looked at how much was download 2.4g.
Why so big? i am on metered internet after a set amount and i dont want to pay for eve and extra internet. |
|
Pytonus Inlautus
No Drama Club
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:35:45 -
[621] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? Some way to change the player controlled ships icons would be great. Be it by color or (or even better and) baldness. |
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:38:15 -
[622] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off.
Will see how many ships I'll wreck trying learn new overview and maybe will dock until update fixing that horrible thing.
|
Sturmwolke
650
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:40:42 -
[623] - Quote
Overview icons, a positive improvement from those horrible concepts put forward in the last blog regarding the icons. These new icons are quite decent.
However (echoing some earlier posts), those lightly shaded NPCs are problematic. They're almost indistinguishable from player icons. Either increase their shading, turn them solid white or change their color to a green hue (which sort compliments the std red NPCs).
The extra granularity for some containers and wrecks are also somewhat debatable. 8 different designs for containers is imo, too granular. Start with less, expand if absolutely necessary. Shaded vs non-shaded wrecks for NPC vs player touches on the same visibility issue as the 2nd paragraph. It's a quandry that needs a proper solution.
|
Anah Sarlai
Umbra-Domini SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:42:41 -
[624] - Quote
Hi CCP, i only have 1 suggestion concidering icons
The battleship icon is hilariously small compared to the battlecruiser one, the feel of bigger ship targetting/watching from overview completly lost its way. Others are quite fine, but could you atleast do something about the icons to really give the feel back ure targetting something big? at the oldscool crossing u could always see (basicly from the fill % in the icon space gives it) how big target ure targetting
|
Kaeda Maxwell
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
345
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:45:18 -
[625] - Quote
New icons are really hard to make out at 90% UI scaling. |
Cyrexoziz
Lightning From A Clear Sky
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:46:28 -
[626] - Quote
Are you ppl huffin' noble gasses or something ?!?! What the hell is this sh*t ??? Triangles for bogeys ? "Oh the triangle flips over and poops when it becomes a wreck, how neat... NO!!!" And the Overview icons looks like something from a 90's game ?! And i only JUST logged in. |
Valenas Grayson
Phoibe Enterprises
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:47:18 -
[627] - Quote
Well I think the new icons -do- look like mini- space invaders. This needs some getting used to and I agree that there is a lot of room for improvement. I especially like the ideas of differentiating between player and non-player ships. |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
86
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:47:57 -
[628] - Quote
I'm starting to like them brackets. |
bigM
Trotters Interstellar Logistics
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:50:35 -
[629] - Quote
Have to say im not having any of the bugs or issues others are reporting everything running fine here. only issue i have is with these awful new icons in overview as im sure its been said before "why fix what isnt broken" not a fan of them at all :( |
Lahnius
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:51:08 -
[630] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
GET USED TO?????????????? look the only damn thing that you said about this nightmare of a trainwreck that was even remotely correct was "MESSY BLOB" ...
face reality, the icons look like crap, the icons hurt peoples eyes, the icons are awkward and clumsy.
seriously here, what person with a brain could even possibly see these ridiculous icons as useful? come on now, look at them, they look like something out of this:
what the icons remind me of
DAY 2 AND NOPE, I STILL THINK THE ICONS LOOK LIKE COMPLETE ****! |
|
Mark Yanning
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:56:36 -
[631] - Quote
I really don't understand the need to change icons. Before they were clean enough. Now is a big mess and they are pretty ugly (exept for the frozen corpse). They look all similar.. also now the frigs have an icon of a plex "beacon". Maybe is just a matter to get used to them but really, if I could, I would be back to the old ones.
-1 to the new icons |
Steijn
Quay Industries
727
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:57:24 -
[632] - Quote
Arbor Wattle wrote:Why is the patch so big. I just looked at how much was download 2.4g.
Why so big? i am on metered internet after a set amount and i dont want to pay for eve and extra internet.
because you have it set to download all resources, if you uncheck that i think it goes down to 50Mb ish. |
Elise Sancta
Durance.
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 08:59:33 -
[633] - Quote
*enables brackets*
"Hey FC, there is a wreck burning to us.....oh wait it is a Sabre bubbling us" "hey I am surrounded by tiny houses and our titan pilot is a sergeant now"
HORRID implementations of the new icons, just bring back the old niche pre-2010 UI style theme with the old font + jukebox which made the game look unique. Or at least make it a selectable option
Or better, make a way to let players mod their UI, so we can make it look the way WE want it. Some games thrive on that possibility and last longer because of it. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
727
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:03:30 -
[634] - Quote
anyone else having issues with PI extractor units taking 3 sometimes 4 clicks to open wheras a double click used to do it? Looks like they have implemented a delay so that it has to be 2 noticeable clicks and not 2 quick ones anymore. |
X4m
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:03:57 -
[635] - Quote
Attack drones icon too big, and similar like frigs. Cruiser and BC icons similar like BS icon |
Elise Sancta
Durance.
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:19:11 -
[636] - Quote
If it isn't broken: don't try to fix it.
The original icons in the overview worked perfect. If you are going to mess with the UI:
-option to add original font back -option to colour your own UI again -option to scale font sizes even more -options to resize every window to the size a player wants -option to remove text from chat channels (everyone uses local chat to see who is there in the system with them....add a option to see only current players in local exc wormholes. No need for racial slurs/abusive language when I just want to see who is there, no need to minimize it or drag the text box offscreen) -option to add more tabs to the overview -colouring the icons, how does that help colourblind players? (yes, they are out there) |
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:24:10 -
[637] - Quote
the criminal tags aint working or there that minute my eyes just cannot see them , how do you no it someones red or orange or nuetral now ?
|
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1671
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:26:59 -
[638] - Quote
CCP, you know if you had added a second blog to the first icon change dev blog at least a lot more of your customers would have been warned about this change.
I can only guess that the feedback on that first icon change blog made you not create one and hide these new changes in the test server feedback forum.
And yet with all the good and helpful feedback there, basically coming down to that these icons still needed a lot of work you put them on the main server no matter what.
You guys are so incredibly inconsequent you make my head 'splode:
CCP Fozzie wrote:once we feel it meets the quality level our customers expect. Oh btw, that^ will be following you around for a long, long time now.
What happened with your new release cycle where you could postpone things till they where in optima forma?
To recap this, such a drastically change that affects *all* your customers should not, in my humble opinion, be sneaked in. But it's like the weapon icon change or inventory change all over again, (which took month's to be fixed) despite tons of hints, tips and suggestions from your customers to *not* deploy it.
Best thing you can do is remove these horrible icons, put the old ones back in and work with us to get the new ones properly fixed and updated for the second millennium.
|
Lord Makk
Trust Doesn't Rust Triumvirate.
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:29:14 -
[639] - Quote
Another day, another statement. Remove these garbage icons I dont want to play monopoly. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
801
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:34:13 -
[640] - Quote
CCP Darwin wrote:relying on color for icons to be distinguishable is a questionable UI design strategy
|
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Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
90
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:43:57 -
[641] - Quote
Here's the thing, when I'm in a fleet fight, it's a clusterfuck. There's so much going on I'm never going to be able to look at brackets in space and go oooooooo this is a battleship and this is a cruiser, I'm zoomed out so far that everything is always going to be layered on top of each other in a massive ball http://i.imgur.com/N2tufQe.jpg example.
I don't need to know if it's a frigate or a cruiser or a titan from it's bracket. All I need to know is whether it's a player ship a drone a deployable or a wreck, the rest of the information I get from my overview. The old system did this perfectly. The new one does not and assaults me with hundreds of individual icons when all I really wanna know is if it's a ship or a drone. |
FunGu Arsten
Radical Astronauts Plundering Eve WormHole Occupation and Resource Exploitation
91
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:47:19 -
[642] - Quote
Havenard wrote:FunGu Arsten wrote: try doing pvp - hope no npc are on grid(they look so simular)
You must be colorblind.
i actualy am.... |
Meerclaw
Wise Humans Sword
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 09:55:36 -
[643] - Quote
Nice patch, sad that the new icons initiative sabotage the good work of the other dev team who worked hard on really important issues
The news icons are just confusing and useless
In Eve a ship is (surprise) a.. target , what is really important is to know the STATUS of that target towards you
Other than that every bit of information added decrease your reactivity scheme.
Kill or be killed (or flee or do not care ofc) are so far the most important things to be able to think about.
Think but think fast.
|
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:01:06 -
[644] - Quote
Cat silth wrote:the criminal tags aint working or there that minute my eyes just cannot see them , how do you no it someones red or orange or nuetral now ?
Ive worked it out in overview setting take the tick out of use small color tags and you get the old color tags back , thus knowing who to shoot who blue , who red and who nuetral at a glance.
|
Ossprey
Lucri Causa
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:04:42 -
[645] - Quote
In space overview description on hover has text corruption, either that or I'm getting Russian drone areas. have manually reset language settings, occurs in several systems across multiple platforms Iconography NPCs are indistinguishable from NON NPC, this causes raiding Pilots to be shot at and concord attending in subspace pockets.
|
Heinrich Rotwang
Zentralrat deutscher Fliesentischbesitzer e.V.
74
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:12:38 -
[646] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Steijn wrote:Xen Solarus wrote:So far, like the new symbols. Going to take a while to get used to, but it's going to be super useful to see ship sizes at a glance. Nicely done CCP! My biggest gripe is that EvE in windowed mode now dominates over all other programs. Nothing can be moved on top, browsers, team-speak, not even the damn launcher itself. Seriously, It's already ****ing me off big time. Anyone know a solution?? what UI scaling are you using? On 90% they are really bad. We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
I'm running in 90% scaling and when I catched up to my fleet last night I was like "ZOMG EVERYONE ALREADY GOT PODDED!!!1" when I saw the icons in space. You _almost_ caused me a heart attack! Icons are serious business! |
Kurt Hectic
Doped Player's Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:13:59 -
[647] - Quote
in my opinion the ship skin prices are to high by atleast 25% maybe 50% also the fact u can only use the qaufe megathron skin on normal megathrons and not on kronos, navy mega and vindi seems like a missed oportunity for ccp to prove to the player base they learned from ther past money grubbing mistakes...
even tho a few skins got added this patch i was really looking forward to the sisters of eve ship skins.. wich arent ingame yet for some reason... looking at all the skins currently availeble i have to say that a good 75% of them seem a bit boring and not THAT great... especially keeping in my mind what was possible during the glorious ship skin bugg weekend
before disapointing things like this made me wanna shoot a monument.... now i think i just wanna have a awesome summer... check back with eve in 6 months or so |
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2154
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:15:12 -
[648] - Quote
I love the new icons - it will be much easier to distinguish ship classes when I'm used to them.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
155
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:16:27 -
[649] - Quote
Elise Sancta wrote:If it isn't broken: don't try to fix it. Very much this. If I were a manager in CCP, I'd consider firing a couple of visual designers, because they lack reasonable job tasks. Instead, I'd hire some PhD dude to make our universe feel more Sci-Fi. |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:16:40 -
[650] - Quote
Steroidastroid Ormand wrote:CCP Surge wrote:Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? Not icon color. Just make player ships look more different than npcs. bolder maybe
just stop fuckin about n give us options to go back to the classic icons is it really that hard to add an option to a game? |
|
Ailiana Blaze
Syndicate of Cydonia senseless intentions
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:19:54 -
[651] - Quote
bigM wrote:Have to say im not having any of the bugs or issues others are reporting everything running fine here. only issue i have is with these awful new icons in overview as im sure its been said before "why fix what isnt broken" not a fan of them at all :(
ABSOLUTELY.
The new icons are a very bad thing. I have BIG problems to find stuff now. and they even don-¦t look good.
Why? Just why?
Can we in any way get the old ones back, please? |
Marlene Dakenek
Devid Ventures
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:20:27 -
[652] - Quote
I think all of the recent UI changes have been terrible. First the beautiful and colorful UI icons were changed to those flat and dull versions which I still after months have problems identifying. And now these icons make the overview look busy and distracting. Giving us the tools to customize the UI to our liking would be the solution but I am not holding my breath. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1693
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:23:41 -
[653] - Quote
Hey all, please stop getting so angry at the devs. There was more than sufficient feedback for them to know this was going to be a train wreck in the sisi feedback threads.
No one wants to see their second best work rolled out for others to judge, and they clearly were not allowed to make another pass to put it right.
The blame surely belongs to be directed at their managers, who decided to Ignore the feedback with a " They'll get used to it, it's worked before" attitude.
They may be surprised.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:30:07 -
[654] - Quote
just to break down what exact information i need at a glance:
Is it a celestial, structure, deployable..... or Is it a ship....if so....is it a npc or a player one....and finaly its status towards me and last but not least the ability to clearly identify its size!
everything else is unnessecary information overdose because untill you dont come up with an icon for every single hull (PLEASE DONT!) you still need the look at the shiptypes column and that means its nothing won by the information wich type beneath its class it is (example the 5 different icons for the frig class vessel)
not to mention all the new players getting confused now when trying to get information by the old youtube videos |
kai il
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:32:34 -
[655] - Quote
The problem with these new icon is "At a glance" they are to detailed and vague at the same time, one of my alliance mates linked a image that shows this, a small 11v10 fight on sisi https://i.imgur.com/ighoK8j.png "at a glance" most of the icons look the same, looking again closely you can see the difference.
But this was taken during AT practice, And the entire time I was flying the new icons were nothing ore than a eye sore if I wanted to look at the range I was from another ship or object the first thing my eyes went to were these icons, it was beyond distracting. And the only time I really use the icons in a pvp setting is not looking at my overview column but looking in space to see whats near me,and my looking at that image once again its a cluster **** of whats what. This is made worse because drones frigates and wrecks are all triangles of the same size.
This is not a good change and it effects THE PRIMARY way we interact with things in eve online, This is not bitter vets being bitter at change, this is people being upset at changes that are bad. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:38:19 -
[656] - Quote
Dear Eve Devs are you even interested in feedback? No one asked for new icons, no one, why do you waste man hours on things that do NOT need a fix and completely ignore player feedback on other things. Is this the 1000$ in game pants all over again? Because some "geniuses" among your employees thought this was needed and important? |
Mashie Saldana
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1617
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:39:21 -
[657] - Quote
Where do I sign to get the good old icons back ?
How to win EVE
|
Caps Locked
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:44:18 -
[658] - Quote
New icons are really awful.
Can we please have the olds ones back. |
Lahnius
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:44:57 -
[659] - Quote
i remember when eve felt like this:
WooT!
well now its increasingly feeling like this:
ZZzzzZzz |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
763
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:45:04 -
[660] - Quote
I also found it hard to see player ships on grid with me. When I logged in I was at a highsec anomaly killing NPCs and it took me a while to realize a Tengu had landed. Then another cruiser landed, and again, it wasn't totally obvious like it was before. They don't seem to stand out as much as they did before. However I think I do like the icons. The icons themselves communicate more information and do it faster than the old ones did. They just blend in too much with everything else. Allowing us to change the color of player ship icons would be cool. I've finally gone into the overview settings and done what many people have been doing all along - give all player ships a background color. I now have all players of all standings with a bright orange background. Problem solved.
However new players will not know to do this. I am sure older players are having a hard time with these new icons in part because they are simply used to the old ones, but I don't think that is the only issue. I think they truly do blend in too much with the other icons, and there are so many different types of shapes on the overview now. CCP needs to come up with new default overview settings to counterbalance this.
I would suggest making the background of all player ships colored by default. Or implement the colored icon idea.
I also think we really need to be able to set a secondary sorting priority. Right now if I sort the overview by icons, each group is in turn sorted alphabetically. Which is useless to me. I want to sort by icon, so that all player ships land at the top over the overview, but I want each individual group to then be sorted by distance. So I get a list of player ships, sorted by distance. Then a list of NPCs, sorted by distance. Then a list of stations, sorted by distance. Then a list of gates, sorted by distance. Or whatever.
I also want the 'player ship' group to ignore the various different types of icons for player ships, when I have the overview sorted by icon type. So if there is a destroyer at 2km, and another at 20km, but a battlecruiser at 10km... then it will be arranged destroyer, battlecruiser, destroyer. Make sense? Of course there are situations when people sorting by icon would WANT the player ships sorted by icon as well. So there would need to be a way to toggle this.
In summary, I think CCP should make the default overview sorted by icon with distance as the secondary sorting criteria. Player ships should be at the top and have a colored icon or background to make them pop. And we need more control over management of the overview. We have more visual information on the overview now, which COULD be a good thing, but the overview is managed in the same way as it was when things were much more simplistic. This is causing problems. |
|
Safr0n
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:45:41 -
[661] - Quote
Like the old wiyrkomi skins much better especially raven.
Caracal model is nice.
Yet to acquire a taste for the new overview icons. They are much harder to distinguish.
|
Vizzini
N00BS R US
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:46:05 -
[662] - Quote
You need to post Videos of how you tar and feather the guy that came up with those horrible new icons.
If you want to keep that crap, at least allow us to select what icons we want to use with a simple checkbox in the settings. Couldnt be too hard, right?
|
Dreadnaught X
Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now.
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:48:59 -
[663] - Quote
The new icons are horrible and unreadable . Very confusing now. Please bring back the old ones they worked perfectly. |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:51:29 -
[664] - Quote
this game is goin from good to bad to worse if we were 1957 id say tthese icons were epic but were 2015 and whats up with the functionality ? its like having a nice car with a ****** engine but hey is nice to look at altough it drives like ****
|
Ava Fortune
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:57:19 -
[665] - Quote
As a new player, these icon changes are amazing! I was still trying to be able to differentiate between different ship sizes with the old icons, but was able to do so immediately with the new ones. A very appreciated change. |
Piratica
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 10:58:56 -
[666] - Quote
it's allready said but here's one more .. all the changes and rebalances are great, but new icons are not. Overview and inspace picture are essential to play and old system was really much better, more acurate and at point. I know manhours have been spent, but having at least an option to have old icons back would be appreciated...
/out of all the players i spoke with, only my 11yo son sad it's awesome.. and his not really paying customer.../
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
273
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:00:23 -
[667] - Quote
Kurt Hectic wrote:in my opinion the ship skin prices are to high by atleast 25% maybe 50% also the fact u can only use the qaufe megathron skin on normal megathrons and not on kronos, navy mega and vindi seems like a missed oportunity for ccp to prove to the player base they learned from ther past money grubbing mistakes...
even tho a few skins got added this patch i was really looking forward to the sisters of eve ship skins.. wich arent ingame yet for some reason... looking at all the skins currently availeble i have to say that a good 75% of them seem a bit boring and not THAT great... especially keeping in my mind what was possible during the glorious ship skin bugg weekend
before disapointing things like this made me wanna shoot a monument.... now i think i just wanna have a awesome summer... check back with eve in 6 months or so I agree with this, because skin is for 1 ship only it should be reduced in price, it's not for a hull that is used on mega/kronos/vindi but only 1 specific ship.
|
Zappity
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
2154
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:01:20 -
[668] - Quote
In what sense were the old icons "perfect"? You couldn't even tell the difference between a frigate and destroyer for goodness sake.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
|
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
91
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:04:00 -
[669] - Quote
Zappity wrote:In what sense were the old icons "perfect"? You couldn't even tell the difference between a frigate and destroyer for goodness sake. In a sense that one could tell any player ship from any NPC from any drone without any thought. These brackets were so very different they were actually useful. |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
96
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:04:19 -
[670] - Quote
Zappity wrote:In what sense were the old icons "perfect"? You couldn't even tell the difference between a frigate and destroyer for goodness sake.
No but you could tell the difference between a frigate and a wreck VoV.
I didn't care that i could't tell if it was a frigate or a dessie, because i could check my type column and see exactly what it was. I cared that I was able to immediately recognize that it was a player ship, and not an ogre... |
|
IndyGos
No Worms Allowed Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:05:18 -
[671] - Quote
Loving the new icons, and having no issues with scaling at 90 or 100%. *Dodges projectiles*
Nice to be able to differentiate between previously indistinguishable things :)
Although there's likely room for improvement.... overall I prefer these ones :D |
Singularity s
Quam Singulari Triumvirate.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:11:09 -
[672] - Quote
Can't stand the new icons after all the bad feedback when you guys posted the initial icons. I am shocked that you still went ahead with it. Not sure if anything we actually post or say makes a difference with you guys. |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
274
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:11:28 -
[673] - Quote
Zappity wrote:In what sense were the old icons "perfect"? You couldn't even tell the difference between a frigate and destroyer for goodness sake. Well now you can't tell a difference between friendly npc battleship and player battleship (both white) at 90% UI scaling.
|
Seekoei
Blood Ravens Tactical Group AXIOS.
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:16:31 -
[674] - Quote
Seems like with the new icons you are trying to do something as seen in perhaps X3 reunion or something.
I personally don't like them, didn't need to be changed.
Simply having the overview was enough, feels like i have to spend more time trying to distinguish what is what all the time, thus distracting me from what is actually happening in space.
Also came across a bug yesterday where i was able to undock and warp to celestial , but my station environment was still loaded. had my station environment and my overview on same screen at same time. |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:18:15 -
[675] - Quote
Singularity s wrote:Can't stand the new icons after all the bad feedback when you guys posted the initial icons. I am shocked that you still went ahead with it. Not sure if anything we actually post or say makes a difference with you guys. it only makes difference when we group up n destroy monuments
|
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:19:12 -
[676] - Quote
Wow, he hasn't said anything since he told us to come back in a couple days, I wonder if that is his plan too? At which point it will be a threadnaught and he won't read any of it except the last couple posts...
I remember the fubar when they thought they knew best with modernizing the turret icons...
http://i.imgur.com/Cca0Y0M.png
This reeks of the same thing... and it took them 3 months to revert those even with how terribad they were. |
Khadmos
Harbingers of Chaos Inc Gentlemen's.Club
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:20:41 -
[677] - Quote
Icons are horrible, for me at least. If there were a way to use the original ones like you have with the map that'd be great. |
Colonel Tosh
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:21:47 -
[678] - Quote
A while ago you guys released this devblog: http://http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/ In that devblog we had the following image: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/ORVAR_1.png
So why are we stuck with MS Paint quality icons when clearly you guys had a plan going that was (marginally) better than the current. Also, I'd rather have the icons OPTIONAL so that I can choose between old and new. That way I can fly the way I desire, without breaking anything. |
Heinrich Rotwang
Zentralrat deutscher Fliesentischbesitzer e.V.
74
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:25:11 -
[679] - Quote
Ava Fortune wrote:As a new player, these icon changes are amazing! I was still trying to be able to differentiate between different ship sizes with the old icons, but was able to do so immediately with the new ones. A very appreciated change.
While the old icons gave you almost no idea of what ship you were looking at, they did a better job of making ships stick out of eg. drones or NPC (with that little trick that gave every player ship a background color). While I indeed appreciate the general move towards distinguishable icons, they need another improvement in the way different types of objects look different. Maybe for drones it is as simple as giving them #b0b0b0 instead of a #FFFFFF. Player ships need to stick out of whatever else is on grid. ATM some of the drone icons are more visible than ships. Also, the background color of bracket icons is now less visible with some colors.
|
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:26:21 -
[680] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
Hello
May I have a feedback?
1) Old overview icons were perfect, there is old good saying KEEP IT SIMPLE.
2) The above link to learn all bunch of new icons , I took that as a joke. Where and when should I study that?? at work? while I drive my car? Is that kind a homework? punishment for something I do not recall? If that's punishment, please accept my apology. Well I do not have anything against your's new ideas, but NO ALL OF THEM ARE GOOD.
3) Do you have in plans to change icons even more, for example different races will have different icons? (maybe you want make it easy for people with reading problem....)
4) "We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option." You have done this with MAP and that was a TERRIFIC IDEA!!!! because this one....sorry I have much more thing to do I my life than study somebody's ......idea ( the link with new icons hilarious). Looking forward to go back to old overview very soon.
5) I do not know where to start feedback problems with new overview, it's to complicated. Maybe if you would just started play eve that could help, but no for older players. You probably know that, we are forced to do things which we do not want to do on a daily basis (you know government , taxes etc) PLEASE DO NOT FORCE PEOPLE TO USE NEW OVERVIEW.
Thank you |
|
Lola Fellatia
Globaltech Industries Yulai Federation
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:26:36 -
[681] - Quote
Icons in overview have increase ambiguity, actually caused me eye strain yesterday trying to determine what i was looking at. So had to drop from fleet engagement, as i felt useless. |
Zerania Astrandur
Oris Enterprises
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:27:28 -
[682] - Quote
The new Caracal model looks really great, especially with those moving parts. However I still have to get used to those new icons... |
mmorpg lol
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:31:44 -
[683] - Quote
Why 90% scaling, fit more on the screen, and had no prior issues other than font size which was easily fixed by running the font scale at 125% or so.
Frankly 90% scaling has absolutely nothing to do with the icon issue. 90% scaling is an issue because you decided that all icons should have very thin lines, make the lines thicker and 90% is not a problem.
Also the new icon fail to be consistent over a class. |
Colonel Tosh
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:33:00 -
[684] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote: I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
The problem is that you force a change down our throats that we don't want, with results that are SHAMEFUL for a company as prestigious as CCP, and an attitude from devs like "swallow it for days and then complain". I lost ships yesterday in part for not recognising the field correctly because of the icons being weird and thus distracting.
You're forcing a change that "requires the brain to adapt" which in itself already is a flawed reasoning, as you basicly tell people with ANY disability that you don't give a **** about them at all and just push the junk quality that has been designed. It's not even CLOSE to resembling the quality of the dev blog.
Shame on you. |
Cruachan Argylle
The Scope Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:39:08 -
[685] - Quote
The icons are a good idea poorly implemented - can you make them 50% larger? |
dorfsorc
AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:42:42 -
[686] - Quote
however well-intentioned the new icons may be, the reality is that so much detail in a very small space is almost useless. Especially when redboxed. it just becomes a color blob. That being said, the new icons provide an opportunity for a cleaner overview if we could alter the physical size of the icon box to make it larger. |
Arch-Magus Mephisto
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:46:43 -
[687] - Quote
The Overview Icons sadly need to be rethought.
You need to know what it is being shown instantly. Change is often difficult to accept. In this case however I feel very strongly that most players will be reading ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs for quite some time trying to decide if the Pharaoh ordered a sandwich or just bad at crayon and coloring books.
I know people work hard to improve the game so please don't take it harshly. But from an end user's point of view it's a bust.
The Jackdaw
I will be a few weeks before flying one myself so it's pure opinion. However it looks like it has the potential to be an Interceptor killer, frigate swatter and primary target of logistics pilots. In other words in any sort of fleet engagement it will likely be the first target on the field and easily smeared. Am I looking forward to getting into this ship? Yes, but with some trepidation. The DPS looks pleasing but it doesn't look right in the shield department to me. I will know for certain once I am in it and set to test it properly.
Sovereignty
Until all changes go into effect we simply do not know what we are getting. It's all speculation. It could bring great excitement. Likewise it could become a real pest and turn off for every player. |
Sullen Bear
Arctic Spirit
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:46:45 -
[688] - Quote
New icons is the worst change since Incarna.
First of all, what is a major goal of icons? For me it is quickly separate some objects CLASSES. Not the objects itself. These classes are: - player ships; - NPC ships; - drones; - wrecks; - other stuff.
All those classes had absolutely different icons before Carnyx. Square, cross, diagonal cross, triangle and circle with small variations. It was not because old CCP designers are lazy of fool, it was because they are professionals. It was almost ideal decision. Icons inside one class listed above MUST be almost equal because we need as much difference BETWEEN CLASSES as possible. Now this clear mechanic broken completely. And we have not any replacement.
CCP, you always tell us: you need patience, learn, etc. It does not work always. F.e. some things that today are absolutely unacceptable as they was at release day: gate jumping effect, wormhole visual effect, MJD jump effect, neocom icons. All this was terrible - and it is terrible now. But with all this **** I can play EVE. With new overview icons? I will try, because I love EVE, but don't know... |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
87
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:53:00 -
[689] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off.
Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part.
Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE. |
Iris Lurechia
Underground Coalition
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:53:35 -
[690] - Quote
The biggest issue I have with the new icons is the shading in the middle. For example with stargates, the icon is almost the same but has a nasty white colour in the centre. The interior shading makes the icons look tacky, while before they were crisp and sharp, much more professional looking. |
|
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:57:02 -
[691] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:[quote=DHuncan]I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off.
feeling exactly the same way
|
Mini D'Matar
Mob Squad
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 11:58:19 -
[692] - Quote
So the symbol on my 'Outlaw' Jacket means what now?? |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:03:14 -
[693] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off. Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part. Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE.
It is not that i dont want to evolve and i think the majority of people who have problems with the new icons think about this very similar, it is that i dont want to adapt to a system that isnt working for me at all.
The new icon system is not build intuitive nor consistent or logicaly...about the optical appearence, that point is argueable cause different people have differen taste and as long as ccp doesnt come up with smileys and pink stuff ill maybe accept it.....AS LONG AS IT IS WORKING!
At this state i am not able to do decisions within a second and ill stay docked until ccp comes up with an solution i can live with.....best way i can imagine is they give us a fallback and work the new icon system out to a state wich is working and let people do quick decisions again. |
Salena Ferrier
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:05:34 -
[694] - Quote
Bad icons, bad....very confusing. I don't understand what was wrong with the old system? I thought it was fine. |
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:10:36 -
[695] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off. Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part. Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE.
Well I do not know what changed your thinking. Yes I love most of changes in EVE since I started to play gate jump effect, wh effect, new look of ships etc but new overview makes it messy and it's no only my opinion. It's not "Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE". I will give a try because my subscription is still on, but I think I will pack my POS , place it on station until patch giving a choice of overview. |
Irakinia
New Eden Cultural Exchange Advent of Fate
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:11:18 -
[696] - Quote
I -love- the new icons. Such a welcoming change :) |
TYLER DURDAN69
I Swear She Was 18 Desmond Legion
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:13:08 -
[697] - Quote
Colonel Tosh wrote:CCP Surge wrote: I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
The problem is that you force a change down our throats that we don't want, with results that are SHAMEFUL for a company as prestigious as CCP, and an attitude from devs like "swallow it for days and then complain". I lost ships yesterday in part due to not recognising the field correctly because of the icons being weird and thus distracting. You're forcing a change that "requires the brain to adapt" which in itself already is a flawed reasoning, as you basicly tell people with ANY disability that you don't give a **** about them at all and just push the junk quality that has been designed. It's not even CLOSE to resembling the quality of the dev blog. Shame on you.
There's throwing your toys out of your pram and then there is this.
Don't force electric light bulbs on me, I want candles. Don't give force colour tv on me, I want black and white. Don't force money on me, I want to trade in livestock. Don't force clothes on me I want to die of hypthermia. Don't education on me, I want to be stupid. Don't force transport on me I want to walk to Spain for my summer holidays. Don't force geography on me, I want to believe the earth is flat. Don't force a change that "requires the brain to adapt", I prefer to stay a brainstem.
They made the change, in part, to help new users - there are less icons than ship names. Learning ship types by name is counterintuitive.
Spoiler: the fact you lost your ships were not down to new icons, but rather the fact you are terribad at eve. |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
497
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:13:18 -
[698] - Quote
dorfsorc wrote:however well-intentioned the new icons may be, the reality is that so much detail in a very small space is almost useless. Especially when redboxed. it just becomes a color blob. That being said, the new icons provide an opportunity for a cleaner overview if we could alter the physical size of the icon box to make it larger.
edit: the provided icon link was almost useless in terms of readability and i challenge the assertion that it is merely a brain adjustment to absorb and learn dozens of new screen display elements that had no particular context other than in the link. As it is, the CCP font choice is particularly bad for people with vision issues and given the aging player base something needs to change. These icons along with many of the new "pretties" being added, were designed for 4k, 5k monitors (go back and read the original blog and the feedback it got then), your going to have to make those boxes pretty big to get these icons appearing halfway decently in anything with lower resolutions.
EveOnline, the niche game with limited market appeal, introducing icons and effects designed for a minority of the player base.
Designing the game around hardware that is out of reach for the average player?
It really is a shame Devs (the producer really, it is her call at the end of the day) are so out of touch with and choose to ignore the average player and his or her needs.
$600 to $1,000 to throw at a new monitor so these icons appear as they are designed - Not here.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
280
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:14:29 -
[699] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE. Evolve? It's a icons evolution dead end to me. Or do you mean reversion herbivorous panda style evolution? Evolution don't necessary mean a good thing.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
Fergus Runkle
Truth and Reconciliation Council
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:20:47 -
[700] - Quote
Skye McDonald wrote:Well done CCP! You have managed to take a huge step backwards with your "new and improved" overview icons. I really do not understand your logic for the change. Extremely disappointing! A few pluses and a gigantic minus. Time for a Hotfix for the icons.
This says everything I want to say. |
|
Red Deck
Stupid Stunts
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:25:30 -
[701] - Quote
Sullen Bear wrote:New icons is the worst change since Incarna.
First of all, what is a major goal of icons? For me it is quickly separate some objects CLASSES. Not the objects itself. These classes are: - player ships; - NPC ships; - drones; - wrecks; - other stuff.
All those classes had absolutely different icons before Carnyx. Square, cross, diagonal cross, triangle and circle with small variations. It was not because old CCP designers are lazy or fool, it was because they are professionals. It was almost ideal decision. Icons inside one class listed above MUST be almost equal because we need as much difference BETWEEN CLASSES as possible. Now this clear mechanic broken completely. And we have not any replacement.
CCP, you always tell us: you need patience, learn, etc. It does not work always. F.e. some things that today are absolutely unacceptable as they was at release day: gate jumping effect, wormhole visual effect, MJD jump effect, neocom icons. All this was terrible - and it is terrible now. But with all this **** I can play EVE. With new overview icons? I will try, because I love EVE, but don't know... I find this post expressing my own thoughts very well.
Icons in the overview should communicate the CLASS of an object as efficiently as possible - and the old ones did the job perfectly fine (with details available through mouseover or in the Type column). Small NPC ship, medium NPC ship, large NPC ship, small player ship, medium player ship, large player ship, drone, full wreck, empty wreck... it was all there in the icon column and I could tell in an eyeblink if there was anything to pay close attention to (I move around a lot and my most often used tab preset is "all"). Now for the same kind of information, I have to look elsewhere, because the icon column is just one big mess making my eyes hurt. Especially the fact that you can't tell NPC ships apart from players' ships just by checking the overview icon is an extremely serious deal breaker for me.
From the aesthetic point of view, the new icons are a disaster, at least with the UI scaling I am using (125%). Ugly as hell. From the functional point of view, the new icons are a serious downgrade from what we had before. They do not serve the purpose.
And I have already played with the new icons for several hours, so it's not like I am overreacting after seeing them for the first time. I have been trying to use them yesterday and today - and it appears that the best course of action for me is to find a way of playing the game without looking at the overview icons at all.
If you really can't do better than this, CCP, then I totally support an option to use the old overview icons. I have never felt they were lacking in functionality and while looking fairly ordinary, they were aesthetically still MUCH better than the new ones (again, with the UI scaling I am using). |
AfroFlipp Mabata
F-I-N-K PROPERTY F-I-N-K and Co.
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:27:40 -
[702] - Quote
Not sure if this has been addressed yet or not, but the Ship thumnails when in a station or on the "show info" of a ship, Are these looking as intended?
Screenshot of what i see. http://puu.sh/iaOAA/5c8515d073.jpg
Thanks. |
Eugen Kidd
The First Foundation SOLAR FLEET
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:31:19 -
[703] - Quote
New overview icons are awful. It's near impossible to understand situation on a battlefield if there are more than 10 ships in grid. With old icons I could clearly understand - there are blob of drones, there are blob of ships (I don't care distinguishing shiptypes if there are 100+ blob of them). And what I see now - it is mess of different icons and I could not understand if there are piloted ship or jettison container or wreck - they all look the same. I think I should cancel subscription on my two alt-accounts until the icons become more or less usable. |
Volery Makanen
Duck Hunters Flex Point
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:37:58 -
[704] - Quote
New overview icons: it looks like CCP hired a freelance designer who has never played Eve and asked him to draw a new "beautiful" icon pack for the "game about space". Awful :( as a result lost the concept of a simple form. |
Tash D'Angst
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:40:42 -
[705] - Quote
I really, really like the concept of new in-space and Overview icons.
I really, really, REALLY despise the execution-- as did the 30+ pilots I flew with yesterday, as evidenced by the constant litany of "space AIDS" and "eye cancer" expressed by all.
(A personal favorite quote-- "It's like Pythagorean theorem in space-- here's the enemy Fleet; solve for x.")
Quite literally, you have taken many years of practice learning to read the grid and not only thrown it out of the window, but made it even harder than it was before. So many others have gone into the details that I'll save the time by not repeating them.
Building on the existing system is a much better option-- someone suggested earlier crossing lines and letters and additional "bumps" on the icons to REALLY get into specific ship classes. That I like-- as per a military mapping system, for anyone familiar.
In the meantime... how about a toggle, pretty please? |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
281
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:40:58 -
[706] - Quote
Red Deck wrote:From the aesthetic point of view, the new icons are a disaster, at least with the UI scaling I am using (125%). Ugly as hell. From the functional point of view, the new icons are a serious downgrade from what we had before. They do not serve the purpose. While aesthetic is subjective (I personally like caldari hulls, even the "ugly" ones) functionality of new icons is an issue. The whole point of icon is to clearly show what it mean with as less segments as possible.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
Di Mulle
94
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:47:17 -
[707] - Quote
TYLER DURDAN69 wrote:
There's throwing your toys out of your pram and then there is this.
Don't force electric light bulbs on me, I want candles. Don't give force colour tv on me, I want black and white. Don't force money on me, I want to trade in livestock. Don't force clothes on me I want to die of hypthermia. Don't education on me, I want to be stupid. Don't force transport on me I want to walk to Spain for my summer holidays. Don't force geography on me, I want to believe the earth is flat. Don't force a change that "requires the brain to adapt", I prefer to stay a brainstem.
They made the change, in part, to help new users - there are less icons than ship names. Learning ship types by name is counterintuitive.
Spoiler: the fact you lost your ships were not down to new icons, but rather the fact you are terribad at eve.
Cheap demagogy ended with forever young "mine is longer' .
Booooooring.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
|
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:48:01 -
[708] - Quote
A lot of constructive whine. A lot of unconstructive whine.
But this is a main question: CCP, you have a few good iterations of icons on SiSi so why did you choose awful one?! If you want new icons w/o whine give us option to chose icobs what we like. Is it so hard? As a quick fix - return old icons or this http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/Concept_NewOverviewIcons_PlayerShips_V2.png |
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:48:48 -
[709] - Quote
Icons,,, good god, what were you guys thinking? It used to be that you could tell at a glance if you were facing a battleship or a cruiser, now everything above a frigate looks the same at first glance. CCP, put your ego aside, admit the new ship icons are bad & go back to the way it was. |
Teacher Oumis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:50:18 -
[710] - Quote
Played on and off since 05 on various chars, I don't think I've ever grumbled on the forums once. But please, please...overview icons are awful, microscopic, unintelligible, garbled mess. Way over complicated.
For a start, ship icons should be larger and more prominent than cans, gates etc. I think the idea of making icons for ship types more distinguishable is nice. But the execution is poor. I miss those simple boxes :(
At least consider legacy support, perhaps in the form of overview icons we can choose ourselves. Similar to how you can often choose your crosshairs in a first person. |
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
287
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 12:59:27 -
[711] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:It would have been better to use lettering instead of icons in the overview. You can fit two letters into that small space pretty elegantly. I'm not sure if I already suggested this in the original icons thread so apologies if that's the case.
Ships (always in capitals): F D C BC BS DR CA SC T CD (combat drone) ED (ewar drone)
Celestials (always lower case): s p m ab co cf
The lettering instead of icons would allow for more or less instant recognition of what the overview entry is. Dwarf fort in space?
|
Array Aggression
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:03:27 -
[712] - Quote
Well, still waiting for the game to actually load up... task manager says it gets to 85k or so bytes, then doesn't do anything. for hours. Repair tool doesn't work, so that's good. I was really hoping for a patch to fix it after downtime this morning...
Logistics V in 14 days, let's see if it finishes before I get online. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:03:42 -
[713] - Quote
well good job of trying to reinvent the wheel....... Think i'm like a few others time for a eve vacation....... null changes -2 % player base ... stupid changes -3 % player base.... ur like new coke going backwards on loyalty |
Wakamatsu
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:04:46 -
[714] - Quote
New icons will take a bit to get used to, otherwise I like them. |
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:09:19 -
[715] - Quote
OMG i just got attacked but a mobile depot! OH, wait, that's a frigate now.... |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
288
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:18:23 -
[716] - Quote
I want to point out you made me switch away from 90% scaling due to the icons looking like vomit when undersampled. Thanks so much
|
Zeus Cronus
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:18:23 -
[717] - Quote
Logged on, undocked, still the same |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1495
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:20:57 -
[718] - Quote
The new map still shows the old icon for landmark beacons, while the old map displays all new icons correctly. I see this as an concession from CCP's side that the new map is crap and they gonna remove it again. Good riddance.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:21:55 -
[719] - Quote
well still taking 30 min to log in ...and it's a guessing game to get on... keep getting grey play button.. and u call this a successful release |
Heinrich Rotwang
Zentralrat deutscher Fliesentischbesitzer e.V.
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:23:23 -
[720] - Quote
Sry for adding another post to this thread, but part of the problem, why the grid is hard to read is this:
http://i.imgur.com/2lGl0rS.jpg
This is a screenhot taken in the system of Amarr, looking upwards with the tactical overlay enabled. I'm telling you the system, because it is almost impossible to read the system name. There are some places with nebulas which happen to have even brighter gloom, making it impossible to see whats on grid. Because bright background + added white value from tactical overlay makes it hard to read _white_ icons/text.
This is atm the biggest issue I got with the eve client.
(and before you ask, the nvidia card is set to sRGB - switching to different profiles or adjusting brightness/contrast/saturation won't change anything - I can also make the same screenshot on a couple of other computers, including the alienware notebook that used to be recommended hardware).
If I should name a single issue that I want to see fixed at high priority, it's how the tactical overlay interacts with the bright spots in the background and nebulas. I think it belongs in this feedback thread because it might be at least part of the reason the new _brighter_ icons don't live up to their full potential. |
|
Evoque
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:25:12 -
[721] - Quote
-ü-ü-Ç, thanks for the new crappy icons
http://i.imgur.com/EO29FQ4.gif
|
Red Deck
Stupid Stunts
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:27:53 -
[722] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Red Deck wrote:From the aesthetic point of view, the new icons are a disaster, at least with the UI scaling I am using (125%). Ugly as hell. From the functional point of view, the new icons are a serious downgrade from what we had before. They do not serve the purpose. While aesthetic is subjective (I personally like caldari hulls, even the "ugly" ones) functionality of new icons is an issue. The whole point of icon is to clearly show what it mean with as less segments as possible. Let me clarify: when talking about the aesthetics, I am not talking about the choice of shapes and whatnot. I am talking about the technical execution of the original idea. With the scaling I am using (I don't want to change the scaling, as it would mess my screen setup), some lines the icons are made of are thicker than others, which makes the icons look extremely poor. It is as if the game was screaming at me 'the overview icons are not meant to be scaled - change your resolution NOW!'. It's the "MS Paint effect" others have been mentioning. The old icons did not have this problem, for whatever reason.
Part of the problem may be that while the space a ship icon has to fit in is a bit wider than taller (in the overview column), the ship icons are (or would like to be) generally taller than wider. The scaling problem might be somewhat mitigated by changing the direction the ship icons are facing, from bottom-to-top to left-to-right or right-to-left (especially as stretching the icon column by a few pixels would provide more space to work with without adversely affecting pretty much anything - as opposed to adding few pixels to the height of every overview line, which would lower the number of displayable rows).
However, either way... unless you are really clever with the shapes (and no, that's not the case with the new icons - come to think of it, it might have been the case with the old icons), you need to make the icons for different UI scalings by hand - there is no way you can scale something as small automatically without the results being complete trash. |
Deacon Abox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
503
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:29:00 -
[723] - Quote
Ok, haven't read this growing thread. Probably been said already but too tempting to pass up:
Needs more pssshhhh
Anyway, see my sig. CCP, why are you expending effort on changing visual candy, often for the worse. Do you really think these icons will somehow help get and retain more new players? Instead they are simply pissing off your old loyal players.
If you must do all this **** and damn the feedback torpedos, then start with making the new stuff optional. You wisely have done this with the new map. If you take the old map away you will get more similar responses.
Can you not just reallocate all the people you devote to these change programs to what really matters. Such as improving the ship and module balance, and redoing some of the already broken or not ideal stuff like sov etc. Speed those projects up by devoting more brain and finger power to those things. Don't break stuff that is not really broken and might only need minor tweaks. Honestly the only problem I had with the old icons was destroyers appearing larger than cruisers. NBD
Sigh
edit : for example, just a few posts above, https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5791993#post5791993 . All the art and coding people you devoted to making new complex and confusing icons for the overview could have been allocated instead to toning the damn nebulae, clouds, and suns down so that they don't saturate our screens and destroy our retinas.
You really are so lucky the core of this game is so good, otherwise the thousand papercuts you are constantly introducing to the game would kill it.
CCP, there are off buttons for ship explosions, missile effects, turret effects, etc. "Immersion" does not seem to be harmed by those. So, [u]please[/u] give us a persisting-áoff button for the jump gate and autoscan visuals.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:40:36 -
[724] - Quote
I'd like to repeat that the idea of a new icon set was appreciated for some time now, since ship types were not as easy to distinguish, or had no difference at all (Frigate / destroyer or cruiser / battlecruiser). I think most people would welcome a sleek change to those, but not in the way it has been proposed.
I'd also like to repeat, UI scaling blur does not only happen on 90% it happens with other scales too. Look at this and tell me this is fine and crisp.
Let us disregard the present for one moment and go into the future, one patch from now, and imagine that everybody has learned the new icons and got used to them. There would still be the following issues:
- Lack of clear indication of what is what, because some types of icons are not different enough from one another, as they do not follow a theme. This is the major point why learning the new icons is tough.
- Lack of icon sets for the 3 other scales. This also makes it harder to distinguish what is what, since the blur is obfuscating a lot of information.
- Having removed an easy-to-see difference of what is a neutral NPC and what is a player, because they would not be colour coded. Most of you say that is not important. Now think about the possibility when pirate NPCs would become neutral to you in the future if you had enough standing. Do you see the problem now? And people being colour blind reported this to be an issue too. A solution for that would be shifting it a bit more into the orange hue. Build for the future, or don't build at all.
- Consequence: Learning the overview as a new player will be MORE DIFFICULT than before, based on this evidence alone.
SOLUTIONS:
- Streamlining the themes of each icon set and keeping this theme. We have too many random offshots.
- Reducing the number of variations. Do we really need to see the difference between an audit log and a secure cargo container? This is what the "type" column is for.
- Colour addition to distinguish between neutral NPC entities and players. I vote for a light teal for either of them.
- Placing the mini-icon-labels like "in my corporation" and stuff BESIDE the actual icon, and not INTO a corner of the icon. You obstruct a good portion of the icon itself that way. By putting those tags to the side, you can start using filters to show TWO tags at once, on top of each other, allowing player filters to show what should be top and what should be bottom. This allows us to have THREE colour and tag indicators ( 2 tags + background) WITHOUT obstructing the actual icon.
- Making "targeted" brackets happen OUTSIDE of the icon. Have an extra 1px border around the icon (that would finally bring it to a 20x20 box, not the 19x19 we have now), where the red, the yellow, and the two white triangles for targeting things appear, allowing more space between the icon and the target boxes themselves.
- Some people could say this is wasting too much horizontal space. So an alternative to this would be: put targeting to the left of the icon, and tags to the right. I know it feels too busy, I didn't put much effort into it. We would need 1 more horizontal pixel per line. But at least icons are NOT obstructed by tags and targeting brackets and we could easily get back to just 1 tag on the right.
The minor problem with this solution is, that diamond shaped icons have been used for the longest time as containers, but we could easily adapt if there are no other small diamond shaped things in there, while keeping the square shape for stationary "cargo" things. like the big one for .. well... a station :D and the small ones for containers. This makes sense, and this is currently what we have... except we have TOO MUCH of it. The amount of variations for cargo containers is mindboggling, ridiculous, unneeded and gets lost in the 3 UI scalings which are not 100%.
Very correct. Some people will tell you, their method of preference to play the game is tagging everything with colours, labels and standings which leaves the NPC ships standing out has having "no label." However, this is a fix not everybody is willing or wanting to do, and basing a design on this "fix" alone is not very smart :c
CCP Surge asked if colour indication would improve the thing. I think it would, and so I have said: "Give player ships AND player structures a light teal, which makes all NPC owned entities keep their white. Or do the reverse. We had a great distinction between player and NPC before due to two completely different shapes. Now you are stuck with only two scenarios: colour one different than white, or fill out the player owned entities, while keeping the NPC ones empty, or do the reverse. "
And again to everyone saying: "Why did we not use the old suggestion?"
The answer is: they looked nice being BIG, but they got ugly being SMALL. Now imagine those icons being SCALED. They would have the exact same problems that we have now. A blurry mess where you can't distinguish similar ship types again, just like before. Except... well... being blurry, which makes minor differences in shape be less clear, while still not... |
|
CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
605
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:46:37 -
[725] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Station services will be vulnerable 24/7 even after Aegis - It is part of the design that they be vulnerable at all times.
CCP Lebowski, is correct they were always vulnerable. He just neglected to mention, now they are sooo much more vulnerable now as it only takes 1 person a few mins to achieve what it took a fleet several hours to do.
The fact station services are so easily disabled at any time is meant to be a content driver.. To ensure your station remains usable you only need to have people on 24/7.
Spc One wrote:Well i saw few people in 0.0 taking out services with noob ships in 5minutes. So now, everyone with 5minutes time and noob ship can take out any station service, later stations i guess. I think people will stop using conquerable stations, because this mechanic is just dumb.
Whats been said here is not quite correct, including spool up time (The first cycle of the module does nothing) disabling a station service will take at least 7 minutes (T2) or 10 minutes (T1). Additionally this is only in an entirely undeveloped system. With the indexes raised it becomes longer (Note that the time to reactivate is not affected by the indexes so will always be 10 or 7 minutes). See this chart for the exact info:
Saisin wrote:Please do not remove the circles on the disruptable services icons.
They are red when the service has been disabled, and this clearly shows which services are active and which are not, and need to remain visible when cloaking and scouting a station, without having to select them.
Players that do not want to see them should simply turn the services icons off in their brackets/overviews.
The plan right now is to have the circles much less opaque when unselected and inactive (As in not being captured or reactivated). They will still be visible, just not to the same degree. Additionally, this will not apply to the actual station service icon, they will be visible as normal, and will be colour coded based on their status (red for disabled, white for active). All the changes will be on a test server for your feedback as soon as I can get them there!
Aeon Veritas wrote:Do I understand that correctly that we can pre-set our default vulnerability timers but they are useless until after Aegis? That would leave the sation Services 24/7 vulnerable. Hopefully a misunderstanding of mine... Nope not a misunderstanding, station services will always be vulnerable. Any member of the owning alliance can defend against attacks or (failing that) reactivate the service within 10 or 7 minutes. This is fully part of the design.
Lady Magneta wrote:"Frequency of Burner Missions offered by level 4 Security agents has been lowered."
So yeah, why don't we bring back the dull and disgustingly bad "normal" level 4s, which we had the pleasure to grind on the last decade. Burners were are great change and a good risk for isk reward for those willing to take it, I noticed this change was not so small after all, even by adding a new Angel Cartel burner ( which has the same 300k reward and 1800 lp bug the others had when first introduced ), the rate of burner offers was lowered by a not so small margin. This just makes me sad, it was a fun and quick isk to be had. The lower rewards are not a bug, missions rewards are dynamically set (By space magic) and should even out over time. Don't forget that the mission also contains NPCs with fairly decent bounties and a chance to drop faction shinies!
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
|
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
288
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:50:00 -
[726] - Quote
I have an idea. This new set of icons is ok. Not excellent. This is how it can be excellent.
Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Give us access to all the icons as a grab bag and let me pick and choose what goes to what. Add more icons too. That other set of player made icons gets posyed a lot, i like them, many peoplelike them. Use them. And ALLOW REDUNDANCY please. Please. I want shutles and newbships to have the same icon, so let me. Its common sense. I want drones to have the same icons. If i want overview defined that way, let me. Let me change the defaults.
Have this, and have the checkbox option in settings somewhere to just have classic icons.
Put classic icons in that grab bag i mentioned earlier, so i can mix classic and new icons if i wish. This gives us the best of all worlds.
So please, go back to the drawing board and make this feature excellent. |
xxdeathxx thebeaver
Tyrant's Short Bus Syndicate
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:50:54 -
[727] - Quote
Now, if only we had an undo button to go back to the old icons.... |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
104
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:51:47 -
[728] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I have an idea. This new set of icons is ok. Not excellent. This is how it can be excellent.
Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Give us access to all the icons as a grab bag and let me pick and choose what goes to what. Add more icons too. That other set of player made icons gets posyed a lot, i like them, many peoplelike them. Use them. And ALLOW REDUNDANCY please. Please. I want shutles and newbships to have the same icon, so let me. Its common sense. I want drones to have the same icons. If i want overview defined that way, let me. Let me change the defaults.
Have this, and have the checkbox option in settings somewhere to just have classic icons.
Put classic icons in that grab bag i mentioned earlier, so i can mix classic and new icons if i wish. This gives us the best of all worlds.
So please, go back to the drawing board and make this feature excellent.
|
Carneros
Ancient Hittite Corporation The Bastion
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:54:51 -
[729] - Quote
If you are interested in sparking conflict in New Eden, please improve the entosis attack notifications with additional information.
"A potentially hostile capsuleer has started to influence this structure using the Entosis Link" is not the best message you could provide in a system that was able to pinpoint exactly where and when.
If this happens when you are asleep, you have target to develop a grudge against or plot against or create a conflict with. Please provide the identity of the attacker in some form. |
Array Aggression
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 13:56:14 -
[730] - Quote
You all need to quit complaining about the icons, I still haven't even seen them yet as Eve doesn't work for me any longer. |
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Lothian Scykle
Repo.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:00:54 -
[731] - Quote
I personally like the new icons with the possible exception that things like wrecks don't stand out quite the way they used to. Yes, it will take some time to get accustomed to the new look, but in software, change is life. I have faith (hope?) that CCP will be able to pluck the constructive criticism from this thread and make it better over the next few patches.
Does something like this (http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/Concept_NewOverviewIcons_ExistingIcons_V6.png) exist for the new icons? I think it might be helpful to see. I also think it might have been helpful to see a week or 2 in advance of this patch, so that we could have been better prepared. Something like a link in the "Latest News" section of the launcher (yes, some people still use the launcher) for those of us who do not follow the dev blogs religiously or log in to sisi regularly. |
Raphendyr Nardieu
Unpublished Chapter Chapters.
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:04:45 -
[732] - Quote
It might be that new icons are too "similar" to people seeing not so well. How about introducing very restricted "accessibility" set of icons. These would be like rectangle, circle, triangle, cross and x. Something similar to old, but still tuned specifically for accessibility. These would be used to identify group of items. Like all the celestials would be the same icon and all the player ships and so on. This would be really small set of icons. This could help some people who can't use the new "more information" concept as they don't see so well.
I personally like the new icons. but still few ideas:
- NPC frigate is very similar to the PC frigate when they are on the grid (in overview I can see the lightness difference). Could the NPC be fully filled instead of just tinted?
- Could the "red" npc be dynamic in that way it means whether that npc going to attack you or not. So when you are in hisec space with negative security status the NPC police would be red to you. Same would be for npc pirates (if they even can ever be neutral).
- Could the icon color change based on the trust tag (-10, -5, 0, +5, +10), similar to the red npc? This could replace the small rectangle tag. Though, It might not be enough to distinguish fleet mates from enemies. When the PC icons were filled, I though this as a good idea. Basically trust colored class shaped blob.
- Option to give a color to "neutral" or any PC could be a good. This might help to group "neural" (stations, celestial) from players (even neutral player might be problem for me). At least option to give white background to all non trust tagged PC characters (currently there is only for ones tagged as neutral).
Overall this is good direction. I hope you get the UI engine updated someday to help with these things. |
Aeon Veritas
Lobach Inc. Easily Offended
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:06:06 -
[733] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Aeon Veritas wrote:Do I understand that correctly that we can pre-set our default vulnerability timers but they are useless until after Aegis? That would leave the sation Services 24/7 vulnerable. Hopefully a misunderstanding of mine... Nope not a misunderstanding, station services will always be vulnerable. Any member of the owning alliance can defend against attacks or (failing that) reactivate the service within 10 or 7 minutes. This is fully part of the design. Thanks for the clarification!
Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons.... Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered? |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1693
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:11:22 -
[734] - Quote
Raphendyr Nardieu wrote:It might be that new icons are too "similar" to people seeing not so well. How about introducing very restricted "accessibility" set of icons. These would be like rectangle, circle, triangle, cross and x. Something similar to old, but still tuned specifically for accessibility. These would be used to identify group of items. Like all the celestials would be the same icon and all the player ships and so on. This would be really small set of icons. This could help some people who can't use the new "more information" concept as they don't see so well. I personally like the new icons. but still few ideas:
- NPC frigate is very similar to the PC frigate when they are on the grid (in overview I can see the lightness difference). Could the NPC be fully filled instead of just tinted?
- Could the "red" npc be dynamic in that way it means whether that npc going to attack you or not. So when you are in hisec space with negative security status the NPC police would be red to you. Same would be for npc pirates (if they even can ever be neutral).
- Could the icon color change based on the trust tag (-10, -5, 0, +5, +10), similar to the red npc? This could replace the small rectangle tag. Though, It might not be enough to distinguish fleet mates from enemies. When the PC icons were filled, I though this as a good idea. Basically trust colored class shaped blob.
- Option to give a color to "neutral" or any PC could be a good. This might help to group "neural" (stations, celestial) from players (even neutral player might be problem for me). At least option to give white background to all non trust tagged PC characters (currently there is only for ones tagged as neutral).
Overall this is good direction. I hope you get the UI engine updated someday to help with these things.
Well, calling it an accessabliity pack, is somewhat insulting, unless one believes the majority of the population, other than the very youngest and fittest, with the most effective hardware, is the new normal.
However, the original icons were in fact very effective, whilst there was room for improvement, for example being able to differentiate between destroyers and frigates would have been good, it was mostly clear and concise, and actually a good design language. Simply half filling in one corner of the cross would have achieved this without the flood of illegibility and complexity we have gained.
So yes give us the old icons back as an accessability pack if it makes you feel superior, but either way let us have it.
"May you stay forever young" Bob dylan
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Callisto Helix
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:21:16 -
[735] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I use UI scaling because I play the game on 24" monitors @ 1920x1200, and I like having as much "space" available to me as possible, and this means making the UI as small as possible (that I can still read everything) while still providing as much information as possible.
WoW I thought did an excellent job of this. I haven't played it in years, but when I did it had a slider that would let you adjust the UI scale by a pretty wide margin. Mine was at something like .54 if memory serves.
Please take the time and effort to make the UI still look pretty when it's scaled. I also certainly wouldn't complain if you gave the option to make it smaller than just 90%. |
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance
156
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:23:08 -
[736] - Quote
Aeon Veritas wrote:Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons.... Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered? The statement has already been made: get used to them and come back in 3 days to give positive feedback and cheers. |
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN
183
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:23:33 -
[737] - Quote
For what it is worth I have to say mostly change is good but with the overview it is not, I understand that ccp may want to introduce some mini games into certain aspects of eve but to have to play pacman in space on my overview is not the way!
The overview icons are a bad move and should either be changed back or allow us the freedom to choose which icon set we want to use.
Why change something that works very well for pacman in space? |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:25:22 -
[738] - Quote
CCP Claymore,
People want official statement today regarding the old icons to be implement again in the game .
Please we are waiting your reply |
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:25:24 -
[739] - Quote
My 2 cents :
- "Ship preview window" and "Ship hangar window" : There is a slowness to open these windows.
- Golem ship, default and new skin : The New look for Golem is inadequate. it's blurry! There was too much dust and too much wear marks on the ship. You have the same definition problem with the new skin " Golem Kaalakiota".
Examples : Just compare the "Golem Kaalakiota" skin and the "Flycatcher" skin. Or, compare Golem default skin and Basilik default skin. You will see the quality difference !
- In general, the new visual effect (shade, light, dust) on ship and environment are very good except for some Caldari ship that would need to be redesigned with better definition, less dust and wear (Check Golem, Widow, Rattlesnake, Bustard, etc.).
- New icons system: I like the difference between Industrial and combat ship. But, there are too many icons and not sure we need this level of detail in the icons system.
|
Ahed Sten
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:28:20 -
[740] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:I have an idea. This new set of icons is ok. Not excellent. This is how it can be excellent.
Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Give us access to all the icons as a grab bag and let me pick and choose what goes to what. Add more icons too. That other set of player made icons gets posyed a lot, i like them, many peoplelike them. Use them. And ALLOW REDUNDANCY please. Please. I want shutles and newbships to have the same icon, so let me. Its common sense. I want drones to have the same icons. If i want overview defined that way, let me. Let me change the defaults.
Have this, and have the checkbox option in settings somewhere to just have classic icons.
Put classic icons in that grab bag i mentioned earlier, so i can mix classic and new icons if i wish. This gives us the best of all worlds.
So please, go back to the drawing board and make this feature excellent.
Please help us CCP.
You're our only hope. |
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
804
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:29:17 -
[741] - Quote
Deacon Abox wrote:All the art and coding people you devoted to making new complex and confusing icons for the overview could have been allocated instead to toning the damn nebulae, clouds, and suns down so that they don't saturate our screens and destroy our retinas. I don't know, the staff you want to re-assign from this sequence of botched UI re-vamps might easily be the same staff responsible for blinding space scenery in the first place!
Deacon Abox wrote:You really are so lucky the core of this game is so good, otherwise the thousand papercuts you are constantly introducing to the game would kill it. Amen to that.
I didn't quit when they nerfed my little T2 BPO collection, reducing my assets by half a trillion isk.
I didn't quit when they banned me by mistake and forced me to go through customer service hell dealing with rude and dismissive staff to get myself un-banned.
I didn't quit when they removed the POS functionality that was fundamental to an EVE business that I had built up over more than five years, destroying that business and any other like it.
So, I'm not going to quit over these icons. The EVE UI has always been bad and if, by recent evidence, it is destined to remain so... so be it.
I sincerely hope I never see a day when the reasons to give CCP the finger outweigh the reasons to carry on playing a game I've been loyal to for over a decade. |
Niraia
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
310
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:32:26 -
[742] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.
The old icons provided all the information I needed to know at a glance - the size of the ship.
That information was very clear. Now it is not.
Sorry :/
Niraia
EVE Online Hold'Em
|
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:36:32 -
[743] - Quote
24h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info one when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait.
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:40:56 -
[744] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Straight out no.
Veteran: "Since we are in a fleet, and you're in a small ship, you need to shoot at the enemy frigates first" Newbie: "Just to be sure, frigates are the small triangles?" Veteran: "No, they are small crosses." Newbie: "But I never saw small crosses on the overview?"
Any guide, any screenshot, ... anything really, with those kind of options are going to be a really hard thing to take in. Overview icons should not be optional for those reasons. You also need to think of the development time of the art department for those extra icon sets, and not make them look bad. We really only need one set of icons, and that being functional across the board. This set would need to be replicated three times anyway to provide the same crispy clear graphics on the three other UI scales available, so there you go with development time.
Array Aggression wrote:You all need to quit complaining about the icons, I still haven't even seen them yet as Eve doesn't work for me any longer. Why should we ignore one problem in favour of the other? I'm sorry you cannot log into the game, but that does not mean we all should stop talking about other things that affect others as well.
Callisto Helix wrote:WoW I thought did an excellent job of this. I haven't played it in years, but when I did it had a slider that would let you adjust the UI scale by a pretty wide margin. Mine was at something like .54 if memory serves. World of Warcraft did not rely on pinpoint accurate pixels to convey what was going on. You memorized which buttons you had to press, you memorized where less used things were located at the bars. The things you paid attention to where right there on the screen, in a visceral display of images. Even if we disregard things like "mods with warning popups" when an enemy did this or that skill. Or huge areas covered in colour right underneath you. Or a giant symbol above your head that you could not possible miss. Then again, those were not part of the UI themselves.
Basically, this is like comparing apples and oranges. It is not a good comparison to make. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
290
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:46:27 -
[745] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Straight out no. Veteran: "Since we are in a fleet, and you're in a small ship, you need to shoot at the enemy frigates first" Newbie: "Just to be sure, frigates are the small triangles?" Veteran: "No, they are small crosses." Newbie: "But I never saw small crosses on the overview?" Uh, no. Newbies will have a sensible default overview provided to them either by the game, or an overview pack from their veteran FC and alliance. Obviously.Any guide, any screenshot, ... anything really, with those kind of options are going to be a really hard thing to take in. Deal with it. This is too important to have literally everyone play exactly the way you think they should
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1693
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:47:05 -
[746] - Quote
Quite frankly if there is a choice between "tweaked" classic icons and this new sensory barrage, you need not worry about multiple icon sets, the five people using the current (new) one probably will be offline with a headache.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
tommytdl
TheDarkLegion Inc
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:47:37 -
[747] - Quote
Now, if only we had an undo button to go back to the old icons.... |
maltupa
TheDarkLegion Inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:49:12 -
[748] - Quote
New overview icons: it looks like CCP hired a freelance designer who has never played Eve and asked him to draw a new "beautiful" icon pack for the "game about space". Awful :( as a result lost the concept of a simple form. |
Shila O'conell
Jugis Modo Utopia pwn-O-graphy
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:51:12 -
[749] - Quote
Icons terrible; client loading times slower; Launcher loading problem....(windows 7 ultimate)
A h+æs+¦k nem b+ítrak, csak +¬letben maradtak...
|
Ahed Sten
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:51:23 -
[750] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Straight out no. Veteran: "Since we are in a fleet, and you're in a small ship, you need to shoot at the enemy frigates first" Newbie: "Just to be sure, frigates are the small triangles?" Veteran: "No, they are small crosses." Newbie: "But I never saw small crosses on the overview?" Any guide, any screenshot, ... anything really, with those kind of options are going to be a really hard thing to take in. Overview icons should not be optional for those reasons.
There's these cool new concepts called "overview sharing," "target broadcasting" and "helping your new players understand the overview."
|
|
AnSky
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:52:04 -
[751] - Quote
Stating to paying customers 'get used to it' after continuus objections is a bit isulting.. dont you think?
New icons are a mistake, and hopefully this will be undone...
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
104
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:53:46 -
[752] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Straight out no. Veteran: "Since we are in a fleet, and you're in a small ship, you need to shoot at the enemy frigates first" Newbie: "Just to be sure, frigates are the small triangles?" Veteran: "No, they are small crosses." Newbie: "But I never saw small crosses on the overview?"
If someone no matter how new is making targeting decisions based on icon rather than type and distance then I really don't know what to say. |
Oliver Delorean
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:53:51 -
[753] - Quote
Get useto with new icons. Changes need to come and new icons look ok. Some of u whine like 16 year old girls broke up with their first boyfriend. |
malpomena
TheDarkLegion Inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:55:21 -
[754] - Quote
Dear Eve Devs are you even interested in feedback? No one asked for new icons, no one, why do you waste man hours on things that do NOT need a fix and completely ignore player feedback on other things. Is this the 1000$ in game pants all over again? Because some "geniuses" among your employees thought this was needed and important? |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:56:29 -
[755] - Quote
But...but I like the new Icons...They represent things in space better...
The music is, eh, kind of weak this time...
Haven't been into any of the new 'Unknown WH' yet...
concerned there are no boutineers this time...I like free stuff.
Over all, I am happy...please don't forget the Rorquals next time!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
jimbolina
TheDarkLegion Inc
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 14:58:45 -
[756] - Quote
New icons are hmmm it's quite difficult to find right word to describe it. They need to go for the love of the god CCP. |
Robbert Dole
The Back Yard Twilight Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:00:27 -
[757] - Quote
Niraia wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. The old icons provided all the information I needed to know at a glance - the size of the ship. That information was very clear. Now it is not. Sorry :/
And it looks cluttered... why do I need a little blob for every asteroid, unnoteworthy large collidable, etc.... Plus the whole "you'll get used to them" argument is kindof dumb, either A.) I will get used to them (duh) or B.) I'll leave (not over something this petty but keep this in mind for future dumb ideas) if you actually wanted to "upgrade" stuff without the huge backlash just change a few icons a month/patch until eventually they are replaced and people aren't completely pissed off...
Edited for typos |
Ishkari
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:00:45 -
[758] - Quote
Microsoft shares climbed today after an unprecedented increase in the use of MS Paint in the Game Industry, Bloomberg official says.
|
monchotdl
TheDarkLegion Inc
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:01:06 -
[759] - Quote
But...but I DONT like the new Icons...They DO NOT represent things in space better, sometimes too much info is not good at all. |
Dilberisimus
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:02:21 -
[760] - Quote
My dear CCP, it seems to me that someone with you suffers for "Tetris". So this brings us back to the days of "incredible" IT achievements. Imagine just how these younger players feel ... ?? |
|
GinBar
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:02:29 -
[761] - Quote
Quote:The old icons provided all the information I needed to know at a glance - the size of the ship.
That information was very clear. Now it is not. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
804
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:03:45 -
[762] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Let me define which icons i want for the ship classes. Straight out no. Veteran: "Since we are in a fleet, and you're in a small ship, you need to shoot at the enemy frigates first" Newbie: "Just to be sure, frigates are the small triangles?" Veteran: "No, they are small crosses." Newbie: "But I never saw small crosses on the overview?" Veteran: "You should use the frigates only tab. Make sure you are using the overview settings that are linked in the fleet MOTD."
Dealing with things like this is a daily chore for the newbie friendly FC already. The ability to configure settings and share those configurations has had an overwhelmingly positive effect in my experience. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:06:31 -
[763] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Deal with it. This is too important to have literally everyone play exactly the way you think they should Please do not fall down into being self-righteous. It is more important to get a set of icons straight than developing a multitude of them, which takes even longer But for the sake of the argument, the most important thing for CCP is our money, and many of the recent changes have not only been frustrating the old playerbase, but also have done a horrible job with getting new players to the game. So if you want to start weighing importance of things? Opportunities and new player experience should be top priority right now, since it is utterly broken and in the worst state of existence since 2007. If you don't keep new players, and continue losing old ones, then that doesn't bode well for any of us.
Tyr Dolorem wrote:If someone no matter how new is making targeting decisions based on icon rather than type and distance then I really don't know what to say. Oh you would be surprised of some of our new players. But that is the joy of being in a starter corporation, and seeing what is happening there day-in and day-out, right? c:
But sure, I agree my example was not one of the best, but it was one in the realm of possibility. Refer to the post before that where I am making a lot more objective conclusions on the subject of icons c: |
Ledilica Srca
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:09:22 -
[764] - Quote
Dilberisimus wrote:My dear CCP, it seems to me that someone with you suffers for "Tetris". So this brings us back to the days of "incredible" IT achievements. Imagine just how these younger players feel ... ??
II agree, I do not like too |
Heinrich Rotwang
Zentralrat deutscher Fliesentischbesitzer e.V.
78
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:12:56 -
[765] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:[quote=Joia Crenca]
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I started switching to 90% UI scaling when I was playing eve on my alienware notebook. Even now that I use an extra wide screen, it's hard to find a spot to place all the windows. On a smaller screen, I ended up with a tiny 400x400 pixel window in the center of actually showing whats going on in space.
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
291
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:14:15 -
[766] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Deal with it. This is too important to have literally everyone play exactly the way you think they should Please do not fall down into being self-righteous. It is more important to get a set of icons straight than developing a multitude of them, which takes even longer But for the sake of the argument, the most important thing for CCP is our money, and many of the recent changes have not only been frustrating the old playerbase, but also have done a horrible job with getting new players to the game. So if you want to start weighing importance of things? Opportunities and new player experience should be top priority right now, since it is utterly broken and in the worst state of existence since 2007. If you don't keep new players, and continue losing old ones, then that doesn't bode well for any of us. Tyr Dolorem wrote:If someone no matter how new is making targeting decisions based on icon rather than type and distance then I really don't know what to say. Oh you would be surprised of some of our new players. But that is the joy of being in a starter corporation, and seeing what is happening there day-in and day-out, right? c: But sure, I agree my example was not one of the best, but it was one in the realm of possibility. Refer to the post before that where I am making a lot more objective conclusions on the subject of icons c: Fine. Whatever. But I'm curious what you think the best solution is. If its "everyone goes back to the way it was last week" I'm 99% certain its not gonna happen. My solution is a real solution, and its also better than the status quo as of this morning. |
Alex Garden
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:15:04 -
[767] - Quote
-ö-¦ -ç-é-+-¦ -¦-¦-ü -+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-¦-Ç-+-â-+-+ -¦-¦-¦-Ç-à -+-¦-¦-+-+, -¦-ï -ç-é-+ -é-¦-+-Ç-+-é-¦? -É-¦-é-+-Ç-¦ -+-+-ü-+-¦-¦-+-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-é-ç-¦ -+-¦-¦-+ -+-¦ -¦-+-+ -+-+-ü-¦-¦-+-é-î -ÿ-¦-+-+-¦-+ -¦ -+-¦-¦-Ç-¦ -+-+-ä-+-Ç-+-¦-å-+-+ -+-¦ -+-¦-ü-â-é, -¦ -¦-+-¦-¦-Ç-¦ -+-¦ -ü-é-¦-+-å-+-+ -é-Ç-Ä-+ -¦-ï-+-¦-é-¦-¦-é -+-+-ü-é-+-Å-+-+-+, -+-¦ -+-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦-é -ü-¦-Ç-+-ü -+-¦-+-+, -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -Ç-¦-+-+-¦-+-+. -º-¦-Ç-é-+ -¦-ï. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
804
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:15:06 -
[768] - Quote
Callisto Helix wrote:Please take the time and effort to make the UI still look pretty when it's scaled. I also certainly wouldn't complain if you gave the option to make it smaller than just 90%. This please. If i had the option to scale to 80%, I would use it. |
GNStreak
UNSTABLE NEIGHBORHOOD skylian Verge
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:18:08 -
[769] - Quote
AnSky wrote:Stating to paying customers 'get used to it' after continuus objections is a bit isulting.. dont you think?
New icons are a mistake, and hopefully this will be undone...
I agree |
Shpongled Victim
Order Odonata
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:18:55 -
[770] - Quote
Im not the expirienced eve player but since 2011 until now i see a lots of improvements, graphic push ups and even more compexity....CCP youre simply amazing running a game since about 20 years and allways make it still atractive with the love you put in.
I love the new icons, need to get used to it but overall they look more modern and sci fi than before. This graphic pushup is a real eyecandy, i hope the new v5++ will give us more in the future and my loki will profit from it too soon! needs a new texture defo.
Not sure its the right place to tell my idea here but i wish to have more immersion. I mean since i started eve i found it a lil bit "weak" interacting with my NPC contacts/agents by a simple textmessage and a picture. We have 2015 allready and when looking around i see some possibillitys that shouldnt be too hard to implement but yet improve the immersion alot.
So how about the agnets become some small rendered videsequences, which pops up on a lil screen/monitor and talking to you when interactiing with them for missions. even on the missions itself from time to time update the missin by contacting the capsuler on a comm link with a lil rendered videosequence. Or for example entering a scanned DED 4 where the faction commander start ranting and getting mad on screen before attacking you. Just some thoughts i often have when travelling in space and waiting for some surprises and atmosphere.
Especially new players, so far i heard from ppl i know thats tsratet but didnt continue, stating often they have a hard time to get into eve and were missing the content. I told them there is a little but mainly its about the players in eve. But aside of that ppl just missing a little more depth of the world presented rather than looking for it.
I would find it very cool having a screen popping up and you got someone of the NPC-¦s on the comlink, either friendly or enemy, while accepting missions or while on missions with updates, warnings from concorde when entering low sec as a rendered video sequence and i would feel even more like a space hero!
You think we can hope on such improvments or is CCP on completly other roads?
anyway, i love the last patch and hope my loki gets its new texture soon (if there is coming one) |
|
Sean Roach
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:20:02 -
[771] - Quote
Well, I haven't logged in yet. I spent yesterday farming, (no, seriously. Remarkably similar to mining asteroids, but at the end, you have a nicely plowed field instead of a station full of virtual rocks. Oh, and you don't have to watch for gank-squads of catamarans while you do it.)
That said. I scale for a larger window. I reduce the size of my overview, station services, menubar, etc, to the minimum I can comfortably read at a glance, and quickly hit with a mouse pointer, to allow for more window to "see through". Flying, otherwise, is like driving down the road with a handprint sized spot in your windshield, with the rest frosted over. If I could move my head and look around the overview elements and text window, I'd do that.
Having not logged in yet, I don't know how I'll view the new icons. I am optimistic. Being able to more clearly identify different ship classes at a glance appeals to me. Of course, I don't want to play "where's Waldo" either, or "count all the 'e's on this page of text", so I'll see if the balance of information is useful to me.
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
|
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
460
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:20:22 -
[772] - Quote
I'm still wrapping my head around the icons for the rats, but in general I like them, and I think long term they will work well.
I am having a lot harder time differentiating players vs other stuff on my general overviews though, while not a major concern when doing fleet battles when soloing about it has been difficult to deal with.
In addition, I'm not a big fan of the change towards the wreck w/without stuff in it. I had a much easier time previously telling if something had been looted, looking for the little circles has been....troublesome. |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:27:59 -
[773] - Quote
And nobody from CCP still didnot give a single comment about what they will do with icons. They dont need feedback about this. So /thread |
Steijn
Quay Industries
734
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:28:27 -
[774] - Quote
this is going to feel like the Big Brother diary room soon but if thats what CCP want.......
Day #2 - Still dont like the icons as they do not do what they are supposed to do. Blurred, very hard to distinguish and by no means a 'quick' way of seeing what information they give.
PS. If this gets to Day #10, please excuse any spelling mistakes but by that time, my eyes will be completely ****** with trying to work all this crap out. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:35:39 -
[775] - Quote
Oliver Delorean wrote:Get useto with new icons. Changes need to come and new icons look ok. Some of u whine like 16 year old girls broke up with their first boyfriend.
m8 people do not want to use-to it! People already use to it with the old ones.
If you want to use new one -ok. But the people which do not want to use they must have the old one icons - simple
That's it!! |
Sean Roach
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:38:52 -
[776] - Quote
I think more options for the overview is good. Give us the ability to select old/new on a per-class, or even a per class/race basis. Not messing with 'rats? Or you can solo all that will appear with just your drones? Turn them back to red crosses and ignore. Need to immediately spot when someone's entered your belt with a catamaran? Turn gallente/destroyers to a red version of the new icon. Save both in the overview.
Default settings can be the old icons or the new. Let us pick and choose, and share our best-practice overviews among our corp/fleet mates.
CCP Surge wrote:Porucznik Borewicz wrote:OK, so after an actual elite PVP fleet I have some more feedback regarding the new overview icons / brackets. Apart from the fact that the drones Xes need to come back, because the new icons look just silly and clutter the view anyway, there is one major issue with the new icons - they are unreadable when no standings / background colours are set towards a neutral player you are fighting. Stuff just looks too much the same. And the more things you have on your OV the more you are screwed. The new icons are OK-ish in a way. You could get used to them. We just need a more "at a glance" way to tell the player controlled ships in space. Like a colour maybe. Making the player ships green for instance would help me a lot. And I bet a lot of colour blind people would also welcome the option to change player ships colour. Right now, everything on the OV that is not a waypoint object (stargate, station) has the same colour. The other way would be reverting the old brackets for player ships.
TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better. Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships. We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags. Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness?
|
Red Deck
Stupid Stunts
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:39:59 -
[777] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? Wow.
Just wow.
So CCP knew their UI scaler was unable to scale pixel-sharp objects properly and yet considered it a good idea to push the new icons through?
CCP, have a long hard look at the old icons - the reason why nobody complained about how they looked, scaled or not, was that whoever designed them actually considered what your scaler could and couldn't do (I can't believe they would have been so cleverly designed just by coincidence). The shapes were chosen (and implemented) so that they would scale acceptably even with a crappy scaler.
THIS ALONE IS A REASON GOOD ENOUGH TO REVERT BACK TO THE OLD ICONS - at least until you can improve the UI scaler so that it scales sharp pixel-sized objects properly. |
Mary Lich
ATAC OTMOPO3OK B KOCMOCE. FEDERATION OF INDEPENDENT STELLAR SYSTEMS
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:40:35 -
[778] - Quote
Huge FPS increase on the old v-card! |
|
CCP Lebowski
C C P C C P Alliance
606
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:48:29 -
[779] - Quote
Aeon Veritas wrote:Thanks for the clarification!
Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons.... Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered? It's really not my place to comment on features developed by another team. As Claymore and Surge have already said they are reading and considering all your feedback.
CCP Lebowski | EVE Quality Assurance | Team Five-0
@CCP_Lebowski
|
|
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax3
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:49:29 -
[780] - Quote
New icons are fantastic :-) . I have a request though, change the icons so you know what size wreck you have. :-) |
|
Shpongled Victim
Order Odonata
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:50:16 -
[781] - Quote
I didnt have a problem addapting to the new icons. i have 22" screen in HD and everything is sharp and easy to see.
|
Desas
Destructive Influence Northern Coalition.
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:52:53 -
[782] - Quote
CCP Lebowski wrote:Aeon Veritas wrote:Thanks for the clarification!
Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons.... Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered? It's really not my place to comment on features developed by another team. As Claymore and Surge have already said they are reading and considering all your feedback.
well go around the office and slap them with their own keyboard (since they are obviously not using it ) till they are willing to get a statement here.
I dont know for what they are waiting ... the feedback is pretty mutch the same with a couple differntions .... besides that they ignored the sisi feedback already so?
still an upset Desas |
Rexxorr
Zero Corp Tax3
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 15:59:25 -
[783] - Quote
Ships are looking quite good, please continue to update them |
Perseus Hagakure
Oscura Simmetria Yulai Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:12:55 -
[784] - Quote
The new Icons are really unusable if UI is scaled at 90% |
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:21:36 -
[785] - Quote
New ships icons are terrible, overview in not intuitive and very confusing. I appreciate work, but result makes main game tool almost useless. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
463
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:31:06 -
[786] - Quote
Regarding the icons: - revert back the NPC ships to crosses (should never be confused with player ships) - give player ships back a unique element making them at first glance distinguishable from everything else in game - some icon polishing, e.g. the beacon and depot icon look ugly
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1696
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:46:09 -
[787] - Quote
Ok a little summation, to make it easy to read for the Devs.
There is an issue with scaling that many people use. this increases the magnitude of the issues people are encountering.
There is an issue with the aesthetics, this is a matter of opinion, and even though players may not like it, is not gamebreaking.
There is a serious issue of legibility with the smaller icons,and the more cluttered icons at all scaling settings. This is Game-breaking for the players affected. they (myself included) cannot adapt to that we cannot clearly see.
There is a significant issue with over complication of the overview and screen icons. Less is more.
There is an issue with differentiating player and NPC icons. this has serious consequences to game play.
Potential resolutions.
1. Roll back to classic Icons.
2. Offer classic icons as an alternative.
3. Create modified classic icon set with bottom sector part filled in to differentiate battlecruisers/cruisers and Frigates/destroyers. and no other changes.
4. Use A new design, seriously reduce the number of new icons, and redesign to differentiate NPC and player icons. Probably as described in 3.
5. Do nothing and expect players to grow new, improved, eyes.
(I half joke, but the reality is, without serious changes, that is the only thing that will rescue this.)
We await your decision, hopefully it will take account of player experiences and needs.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
3ulldog
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:51:14 -
[788] - Quote
Hi CCP. Firstly Thanks for the past 8-9 years. Love(d) the game and the patches were always a treat to log onto. Now some constructive feedback on the latest patch. Why have you reverted back to a 1980's arcade game called Asteroids. This is what the new Icons remind me off, and they are terrible. Just had the misfortune of undocking from Jita and it was a mess and an eyesore. If you insist on keeping them, then please give the player based Community the option of switching off the new Icons and going back to the old ones like you did with the Map upgrade. I see a lot of negativity regarding the new Icons and i think you have to sit up and take notice. Your player based numbers are falling and listening to the community is a must. When i joined Eve many years ago i remember the times when there were 54k people online. Now you get just about 34k. Please please revert back. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:53:03 -
[789] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Fine. Whatever. But I'm curious what you think the best solution is. If its "everyone goes back to the way it was last week" I'm 99% certain its not gonna happen. My solution is a real solution, and its also better than the status quo as of this morning. Your solution is not feasible since it says "bring back the old icons, and the previous icons, and make all three sets possible to be selected and mixed and matched how we see fit."
This means we have one set of okay icons, and two sets of blurry icons when scaled. I never said we should go back to the old icons. You will not find a single post of me saying that in this topic. You are free to check my profile, I have only posted in this feedback topic since it started. Please do not put words in my mouth.
But even if I HAD said it, then why would that be worse than what you are proposing? Reverting to the old icons would most likely be a lot easier than to create a section in the overview settings to decide which Icons you want from what set.
We have the new icons, now we have to deal with them and hope that our continued high qualify feedback will be heard. That is the only thing we can do by now. Which, by the way, has been done since MONTHS. The same, and I repeat myself yet again, is happening with opportunities and the new starmap. No useful updates there. Old features which were good, have been cut out for no reason at all. It might be just be, but I am STILL misclicking the icons for Contracts and Notepad in my Neocom. I also miss my purple interface.
If you read the post before I was saying "no" to your suggestion, then you would have seen a good number of solutions. In fact, I tried to be as civil and detailed as I possibly can, through the entire topic, bringing up multiple points, often repeating myself.
I fully understand there is pressure on the development teams to ship a certain feature for a certain deadline. I know there are the marketing and business hyenas who are more prone to push people to bad decisions and half-finished products than not. But we do live in a community here. I don't want to FIGHT the developers, I want to WORK with them. I bet most people here who have been on sisi (And I don't know if you have been) and who are giving in-depth feedback want to WORK with the developers too.
It gets increasingly difficult to still believe we're working together, if features are removed that nobody wanted gone, and if changes are made that are not optimal. I'm not talking about gameplay balance here, that is an entirely different cup of tea. But the User interface is the ONLY thing that every player of a game is dealing with 100% of all the time they play. That is why it is such a sensitive topic. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:55:26 -
[790] - Quote
As 3ulldog said
I hope this time to take pay attention of the ppl request!
Because last time we screamed 64 pages regarding Tooltips and you just passed away |
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
106
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:56:30 -
[791] - Quote
Im still mad about my monochrome neocom. |
Katowen
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:57:20 -
[792] - Quote
My first reaction after playing for just a little bit yesterday is this:
I personally do not like the new ICONs at all. Maybe it is because I have been use to old ones for 5+ years, but still, eeeeck!
The rest of the content is still under evaluation and will update this post (my own post) as I play around more throughout the week.
Katowen
|
Shpongled Victim
Order Odonata
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:59:20 -
[793] - Quote
dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong? |
Ranger Feenix
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 16:59:59 -
[794] - Quote
CCP,
I'm still checking features with the new patch, but for the limited time that I've played since the patch, I like what I'm seeing.
I was concerned about some of the posts regarding launcher/patching issues prior to me running the launcher...but everything functioned flawlessly on my system and I was up and running in about two minutes.
I'm actually running the UI at 110% iirc because I'm spanning EVE across 3 30" monitors in surround, and everything looks superb.
Thank you for continuing to improve a great "simulation."
Lost in Space
|
Sgt Aggro
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:01:46 -
[795] - Quote
Awful Icons thats all i have to say on the matter. |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1603
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:03:26 -
[796] - Quote
I can't speak to visual problems: even at my age (mid-40s), my astigmatic eyes can make the icons out clearly at 100% scaling without glasses and without headaches.
I like the consistency of the designs. I love that NPCs use the same icon set. I like that it's now easy to tell destroyers from cruisers from battlecruisers (or, in the case of rats, to tell frigates from destroyers).
If they look like old videogame sprites, it's because they're trying to solve the same problem in the same design space (few pixels, few colors).
Fix the scaling algorithm, migrate the icons to ISIS. Done and well done, as far as I'm concerned.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
68
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:15:05 -
[797] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong?
Their complaint is probably based more on the look of the icons as they are single coloured rather then the old set we had.
Old Neocom
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
juulian
Grey Toxic Sword Kids With Guns Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:17:10 -
[798] - Quote
I'll throw another stone to the garden dissatisfaction with new icons, introduced only chaos. They are as eloquent as Sphynx and "ergonomic" for efficient differently. |
Lahnius
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:18:37 -
[799] - Quote
nothing is going to change, there has obviously been way too much time and effort put into this change ... unfortunate that its an incredibly ugly and poorly thought out change, its the change THEY are going to keep no matter what WE say.
this is business mentality at its best right here; THEY want to implement something THEY feel will work and THEY DO NOT CARE what WE want. even though WE pay to play this game, THEY will do as THEY please.
'nuff said! |
Haelie
Sebiestor Tirbe
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:24:42 -
[800] - Quote
gaiz, really, please! implement an option for the player to opt between the old and new icon set. when ur overview is full of ships the most useful icon set is the one who indicate the ship size by icon size, not by shape what u did was throwing in a lot of icons of the same size but different shape; you have to look at each and mentally process that shape. some may like that, some may not, and some may want to do that change/transition at their own will/pace |
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:34:03 -
[801] - Quote
Oh my God, just logged in today and had hoped yesterday was a bad dream..... The awful icons are still here..
Can you please dump them as they are just not up to the job, they don't help they hinder.. Simple is best and the new icon set is an exercise in 'lets break what worked', lets 'over kill the icons' to the point they lose their functionality..
This really is another 'walking around stations moment' for CCP, these icons are the worst innovation by DEVS for years, and there's been some clangers, but these icons come tops...
I've tried them, they are not up to the job... Far to complex way of indicating required information... |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1696
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:34:10 -
[802] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:nothing is going to change, there has obviously been way too much time and effort put into this change ... unfortunate that its an incredibly ugly and poorly thought out change, its the change THEY are going to keep no matter what WE say. this is business mentality at its best right here; THEY want to implement something THEY feel will work and THEY DO NOT CARE what WE want. even though WE pay to play this game, THEY will do as THEY please. 'nuff said!
That business mentality is the same as the one, where manufacturers started to put milk proteins in every damn food, and then wondered why their customers with milk allergies stopped buying.
Hint! It wasn't because they didn't like the taste.......
Hint! You can't see the icons, you are not going to get used to them.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:35:01 -
[803] - Quote
All in all, a good patch.
I'm a little disappointed in the rantings of those who are reacting so negatively to the icon changes.
These were comprehensively announced weeks ago in the dev blogs. These have been on SISI for some time now.
I hope everyone who is losing their **** here was active on the test servers up until now.....offering more constructive criticism than the childish, self absorbed, self entitled ranting like I'm seeing in this thread.
There are no surprises here. You were more than forewarned, and your feedback is constantly solicited ALL THE TIME for EVERY CHANGE.
To wake up one day and kick and scream when you had every opportunity to help prevent or modify changes you did not prefer only undermines your current outbursts.
Now adapt, or die.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
|
Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:37:30 -
[804] - Quote
I would like to chip in my thoughts on the overview icons as well.
I don't care for them. I didn't react right away in face I was just objecting to the change in general. But then I realized what it was that most rubbed me the wrong way; its complexity. It's not how they look at 90% UI, though that is a concern. It's how complex they are compared to the shorthand information they're supposed to convey.
I work in graphics, and less IS more. The little squares of boxes that identified other players? That was less, and it is more than the new system in place.
A lot of Eve basics can be boiled down to Small >> Medium >> Large >> XL. That is, frig, battlecruiser, Battleship, capital. Knowing that information alone can be a firm foundation for future decisions. Example, frigs orbit the battleship, never gets touched by those large guns. Information that can be gleamed from the simple box size icon from the old overview, and this is the information players are looking for in their overview. The new overview is a plethora of data that takes longer analysis before it can be understood. In a fight, that data is to much to parse.
Graphics 101; less is more.
Early in this thread, someone posted an image featuring ships and rats as a variety of pointed cones. Smaller ships had smaller cone bases, while larger more battleship sized ships had wide bases. This is the sort of information that is useful, and it looks good, if not a little... red. It needs another pass before I'd ship it, but this is easier to understand at a glance, and would be a strict upgrade over both overview iterations.
While no one was asking for an overview overhaul, we are now. Because this new flood of data is to much to handle. And it doesn't look very nice either.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/UIModernization_Blog_Screenshot.jpg |
Shpongled Victim
Order Odonata
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:38:03 -
[805] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong? Their complaint is probably based more on the look of the icons as they are single coloured rather then the old set we had. Old Neocom
Thanks for enlighten me. I still think the new stuff looks cooler :D
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1697
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:38:23 -
[806] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:
All in all, a good patch.
I'm a little disappointed in the rantings of those who are reacting so negatively to the icon changes.
These were comprehensively announced weeks ago in the dev blogs. These have been on SISI for some time now.
I hope everyone who is losing their **** here was active on the test servers up until now.....offering more constructive criticism than the childish, self absorbed, self entitled ranting like I'm seeing in this thread.
There are no surprises here. You were more than forewarned, and your feedback is constantly solicited ALL THE TIME for EVERY CHANGE.
To wake up one day and kick and scream when you had every opportunity to help prevent or modify changes you did not prefer only undermines your current outbursts.
Now adapt, or die.
Dan
Dear Dan, excellent troll, you gain a rating of .00000000000000000000000000001 on the good troll guide.
Ps we warned about this train wreck until we were blue in the face. Maybe you should read the feedback? And not look like an ignorant troll?
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Sean Roach
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:45:18 -
[807] - Quote
Just a thought on the purportedly blurry icons at 90%. Have you given any thought to pre-rendering the icons for different resolutions? I know that's more stuff to download, but I'd think even a 10fold increase in the number of sprites would be a small(ish) download, and I doubt anyone will scale things down to 10%.
Granted, the effort of checking each sprite for legibility at a given resolution, and then tweaking it, may be more than CCP wishes to commit its art department to. |
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:47:18 -
[808] - Quote
This, one +1. They are simple and logical compared to the new icons, at least for ships.
Elise Sancta wrote:If it isn't broken: don't try to fix it.
The original icons in the overview worked perfect. If you are going to mess with the UI:
-option to add original font back -option to colour your own UI again -option to scale font sizes even more -options to resize every window independently to the size a player wants instead of scaling the entire UI -option to remove text from chat channels
-option to add more tabs to the overview -colouring the icons, how does that help colourblind players? (yes, they are out there) This too. Unfortunately, CCP came from the "school" who pretend that the user don't know what he wants. Options are good, but not for CCP logic, and this despite disastrous exemples like the failure of the W8 Start Screen...
Elise Sancta wrote:Or better, make a way to let players mod their UI, so we can make it look the way WE want it. Some games thrive on that possibility and last longer because of it. This would be even better, there are some MMOs who do that. CCP would have to release old UI material when they update them, to permit to be reused by a mod.
Of course, it is hard to code, but it will permit to contentate any motivated players and so stop all complains about Neocom and others, as we will be able to correct them. |
TJ Tadaruwa
Ignotis Imperium Usurper.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:50:34 -
[809] - Quote
The main problem I have with the UI changes is that in a seeming attempt to draw more attention to other ships on grid, and create a clear distinction, it has actually made ships less noticeable on grid, and harder to distinguish
If it weren't for the concussion of a ship exiting warp ships would be entering and leaving grid and it is too hard for the player's eyes to track that.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/ORVAR_1.png
The above link was an acceptable change in my mind, and I was under the impression that that's what it was going to look like, but now it looks like some 1st grader came in and tried to draw it. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
806
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:52:43 -
[810] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong? Their complaint is probably based more on the look of the icons as they are single coloured rather then the old set we had. Old Neocom Oh, how I miss those old Neocom icons.
Although it is true that we have the option to change the UI/Neocom colours, we can only do so by adopting one of a very small number of pre-defined themes. Unfortunately we don't get to create our own custom theme using colour sliders or anything nice like that. So if there is no theme to suit you, which is sadly the case for me, you just have to tolerate a theme you don't like. Aside from that, changing the theme colours doesn't fix the icons if, like me, you find their design unhelpful and/or unattractive.
I think it's a harsh indictment of the currrent icons (both Neocom and brackets) that so many people express a wish to go back to the old ones. It's not that the old ones were good, it's just the new ones are so very very bad. |
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
94
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 17:55:14 -
[811] - Quote
TJ Tadaruwa wrote:The main problem I have with the UI changes is that in a seeming attempt to draw more attention to other ships on grid, and create a clear distinction, it has actually made ships less noticeable on grid, and harder to distinguish If it weren't for the concussion of a ship exiting warp ships would be entering and leaving grid and it is too hard for the player's eyes to track that. http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/66945/1/ORVAR_1.png The above link was an acceptable change in my mind, and I was under the impression that that's what it was going to look like, but now it looks like some 1st grader came in and tried to draw it.
Ok but ppl don't want at all new overview icons in the game! How you will solve that? |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:02:38 -
[812] - Quote
Skia Aumer wrote:Aeon Veritas wrote:Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons.... Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered? The statement has already been made: get used to them and come back in 3 days to give positive feedback and cheers. so basically nothing will change
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:05:30 -
[813] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong? Could you please recreate these two interface colours for me with the current options? Thank you! http://i.imgur.com/V09U77q.png & http://i.imgur.com/FRBYoWs.png
Dersen Lowery wrote:I can't speak to visual problems: even at my age (mid-40s), my astigmatic eyes can make the icons out clearly at 100% scaling without glasses and without headaches.
I like the consistency of the designs. I love that NPCs use the same icon set. I like that it's now easy to tell destroyers from cruisers from battlecruisers (or, in the case of rats, to tell frigates from destroyers). Like I mentioned to someone else before, I'm glad you don't have these problems with your age and eye condition, but that does not mean everyone else has the same luck. Especially since you are playing on 100% UI scale, you are shielded from half the issues these new icons are bringing. I invite you to change the UI scale to either 90% or 110% and see how you like them then after a couple of hours? c:
I do agree with you as well about the distinction between destroyer and frigate. Most of the people would agree that we would need more distinguished ship icons, but also most people say the way it has been implemented and the choice of designs was not ideal.
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:These were comprehensively announced weeks ago in the dev blogs. These have been on SISI for some time now. Aaaaaand they have been receiving negative AND constructing feedback on how to improve. Moving on, nothing new to see here c:
Firia O'Flame wrote:Early in this thread, someone posted an image featuring ships and rats as a variety of pointed cones. Smaller ships had smaller cone bases, while larger more battleship sized ships had wide bases. While this is all nice and good, the image still had the same problem with UI scaling. Scale this image to 90%, 110% and 125% in your program of choice, then add target brackets and tags into the bottom left corner, and you will see what I mean. Additionally, even though using the same base shape sounds good at first, these fine nuances get lost in the thick of the fight. The shapes would need to vary a bit stronger than those. The other problem with this image is, it did not show us all ship types.
But if I HAD to choose, right now, between the lesser of two evils, between the ship icons now and the one posted in the picture, I would tend to use the older ones. I still would not be happy, since the same issues are apparent, but at least those have a better consistency within their geometric shape. |
Elise Sancta
Durance.
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:13:45 -
[814] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong?
Everything is too dark. Sometimes it is even difficult to see the close options when you have multiple windows opened or you close the wrong window. It is all 90% black.
At least before they started ruining the UI you could choose a window colour.
And CCP, what is the use of releasing new content on Sisi to test when you get pages long of comments, don't read it/forward any comments straight to the trash bin, still release it untouched and act surprised when players do not like it? |
loquacious7
Pawnstars INC The Obsidian Front
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:18:13 -
[815] - Quote
Can we turn the icons off? I only need a character name, Distance, ship name, speed, transversal and and FC command. Not really sure why you think putting big ugly symbols all over a beautiful landscape should be called progress. But it's like painting a mustache on Mona Lisa ;) |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:20:29 -
[816] - Quote
Sean Roach wrote:Have you given any thought to pre-rendering the icons for different resolutions? I know that's more stuff to download, but I'd think even a 10fold increase in the number of sprites would be a small(ish) download, and I doubt anyone will scale things down to 10%.
Granted, the effort of checking each sprite for legibility at a given resolution, and then tweaking it, may be more than CCP wishes to commit its art department to. Yes, creating individual variation sets for the 3 other UIs would be a nobrainer. I mean... that would infer that these Icons hold what they promise, which they don't in this case. So instead of doing four times the work for something that could be changed anyway, we are their guinea pigs for testing again... except that would not have been needed, considering the amount of previous feedback.
And it is not that hard to do. You start with the smallest UI size, being 90%, scale up, sharpen up, and apply individual tweaks, save. Sometimes you do have to create the same shape from scratch, but once you KNOW what you are drawing since the decision is already made, this is a lot easier and faster. Rinse and repeat for the two other UI scales. The majority of the work is done on the first set of icons, the other three scales require in total less time than creating the first set. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
94
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:21:34 -
[817] - Quote
CCP Claymore it's time to write something again. It is obviously that ppl don't like it at all |
Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:22:08 -
[818] - Quote
Thanks CCP for giving me a choice:
- Leave 90% scaling on, as I have been using for years now, and get a set of totally messed up incomprehensible and confusing icons or... - Remove 90% scaling, loose a ton of real state in my monitor and get totally incomprehensible and confusing icons that are clear to read
I think I understand what triggered this change. In your focus group with new players they all asked "why is everything a cross" and you said "Bingo! we need new icons". But in your own hamfisted way you swung the pendulum too much to the other end. Now everything is a different icon and you messed with the ones that we have been playing and loving for YEARS! Why the Sun and asteroid belts had to change??! Why a different icon for every drone??! Why change the pod icon??! Where those not easy enough to understand?
Please bring back my 90% scaling.
Please do SOMETHING with the icon mess.
PS: If it ain't broken... |
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
24
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:40:06 -
[819] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Dan Seavey Allier wrote:
All in all, a good patch.
I'm a little disappointed in the rantings of those who are reacting so negatively to the icon changes.
These were comprehensively announced weeks ago in the dev blogs. These have been on SISI for some time now.
I hope everyone who is losing their **** here was active on the test servers up until now.....offering more constructive criticism than the childish, self absorbed, self entitled ranting like I'm seeing in this thread.
There are no surprises here. You were more than forewarned, and your feedback is constantly solicited ALL THE TIME for EVERY CHANGE.
To wake up one day and kick and scream when you had every opportunity to help prevent or modify changes you did not prefer only undermines your current outbursts.
Now adapt, or die.
Dan
Dear Dan, excellent troll, you gain a rating of .00000000000000000000000000001 on the good troll guide. Ps we warned about this train wreck until we were blue in the face. Maybe you should read the feedback? And not look like an ignorant troll?
Did my message apply to those who DID contribute constructive feedback?
Quote:I hope everyone who is losing their **** here was active on the test servers up until now.....offering more constructive criticism than the childish, self absorbed, self entitled ranting like I'm seeing in this thread.
I'm seeing a lot of posts from those who never bothered, and I'm seeing a lot of "Change Scares Me" and "I was used to the old way" bitching. I for one like the new icons. More than 1/2 of the posts are negative drivel. Those are the ones I was addressing.
Does this apply to you? No? Then go back to sleep.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
|
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:40:48 -
[820] - Quote
The new icons blow. Change it back, now. |
|
The Slayer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
205
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:42:28 -
[821] - Quote
loquacious7 wrote:Can we turn the icons off? I only need a character name, Distance, ship name, speed, transversal and and FC command. Not really sure why you think putting big ugly symbols all over a beautiful landscape should be called progress. But it's like painting a mustache on Mona Lisa ;)
Because the boxes were so artistically beautiful... |
Lahnius
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:45:50 -
[822] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of posts from those who never bothered, and I'm seeing a lot of "Change Scares Me" and "I was used to the old way" bitching. I for one like the new icons. More than 1/2 of the posts are negative drivel. Those are the ones I was addressing.
Does this apply to you? No? Then go back to sleep.
Dan
... you assume alot, which can only mean one thing ... |
Lahnius
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:48:34 -
[823] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:loquacious7 wrote:Can we turn the icons off? I only need a character name, Distance, ship name, speed, transversal and and FC command. Not really sure why you think putting big ugly symbols all over a beautiful landscape should be called progress. But it's like painting a mustache on Mona Lisa ;) Because the boxes were so artistically beautiful...
has nothing to do with artistic beauty ... it has to do with usefulness and simplicity |
Steijn
Quay Industries
736
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:48:47 -
[824] - Quote
Lara Divinity wrote:Skia Aumer wrote:Aeon Veritas wrote:Now lets talk about the by far most discused feature of this patch, the icons.... Can you at least tell us that they will be reconsidered? The statement has already been made: get used to them and come back in 3 days to give positive feedback and cheers. so basically nothing will change
1 thing will, my sub. I have 3 expiring within a few days of each other from the 20th. Pointless subbing to a game that you dont get enjoyment from because of stupid changes.
PS. No you cant before someone asks. |
Elise Sancta
Durance.
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:50:11 -
[825] - Quote
The Slayer wrote:loquacious7 wrote:Can we turn the icons off? I only need a character name, Distance, ship name, speed, transversal and and FC command. Not really sure why you think putting big ugly symbols all over a beautiful landscape should be called progress. But it's like painting a mustache on Mona Lisa ;) Because the boxes were so artistically beautiful...
Yes, and these new ones are soooo good, especially on 90%. :S
|
Array Aggression
THE BOARD OF EDUCATION
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:52:26 -
[826] - Quote
Quote:Why should we ignore one problem in favour of the other? I'm sorry you cannot log into the game, but that does not mean we all should stop talking about other things that affect others as well.
Well, 2 things, 1, I was joking, and 2, it's easy to talk about prioritization of problems being wrong when you can actually log into the game. For those of us that can't even load it anymore because of the patch, we're left paying for a service we can't even use, at all, period. Sure, it sucks to have to learn new icons, and deal with the messy interface, but at least you get to. :)
|
Detritus Thermopyle
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:53:36 -
[827] - Quote
Patch process was nice and smooth. New overview icons are one of the best game improvements ever, imo.
"A lie can travel half-way across the universe whlie the truth is undocking."
~ Mark Twain (paraphrased)
|
Monster Dude
Raging Ducks
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:54:47 -
[828] - Quote
I've never had a single issue with overview icons so far. And I do have a big one now.
Long story short: I'd say the one who did this change shouldn't do changes in EVE... :( |
Lahnius
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 18:56:55 -
[829] - Quote
Detritus Thermopyle wrote:Patch process was nice and smooth. New overview icons are one of the best game improvements ever, imo.
uh yyyyyeaaaaa
best game improvements ever? pvp much? |
Jack Hectom
United Conflict Space Command Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:04:27 -
[830] - Quote
I'll be honest here I don't like the icons. I'm also sure I'll get over it in a few months regardless of what happens. For now I'm too busy popping all these Special snowflakes who think it's hilarious to offline our station services. |
|
Sun Huren
Opposing-Force Sock Puppet Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:06:19 -
[831] - Quote
Please. The icons are bad. Really bad. Why are they obligatory? Everything looks the same. I'm going to lose a lot of ships to this; if I don't lose my mind first. |
Slarti
One Man and His Drake
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:08:14 -
[832] - Quote
We needed new icons |
Turri Spacepilot
Imperial Pharmacy Silent Infinity
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:12:51 -
[833] - Quote
Lot of crying about icons well maybe some day i could get in and see the friking icons but no atm after pressing play eve wont start it just sitsn in prosesses and waists my cpu power... |
Hajime Nakamura
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:13:13 -
[834] - Quote
I personally like the new icons, gives the game a more strategic look just like real life tactical maps. Its really not as big of a deal than as some people whine about, typical people who don't like change in any aspect of their lives, get used to it. |
Menz Agitat
Glowing Goat Black Fence.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:14:36 -
[835] - Quote
I hate the new icons. I presume a manager has a girlfriend who needs to feel usefull and is making us icons... |
Tewilligar
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:26:59 -
[836] - Quote
I seriously have to ask...
Are these inane icons here to stay?
we have all put up with a lot of changes over the years but this is rediculous.
if they are here to stay, will there be an option to remove them from my hard disk and use classic icons, afterall it is me looking at them.
That's all. |
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
729
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:28:21 -
[837] - Quote
Problem: Frigates-Destroyers and Cruisers-Battlecruisers are hard to differentiate in the overview. Solution: Change the entire icon set in the game into something terrible.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2457
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:30:19 -
[838] - Quote
for the icons, is it possible to allow the asteroids themselves to be seen on the screen? they have a neat new icon in overview but you have to click on it to actually see its loacation in space (unless you're running a killer machine to view from a distance). |
Yogsoloth
Percussive Diplomacy Separatists
173
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:32:51 -
[839] - Quote
Outside of the Sov changes this patch was a collossal waste of time and is now causing major inconveniences for the majority of the playerbase.
Nobody was calling for new icons, and new players will not benefit at all from them. All you've done with them is caused confusion and delay amongst the majority of your paying playerbase.
Tiercide on the modules once again was unecessary and poorly implemented.
I love logging in and having to refit all 100 ships in my hangar cause someone totally disconnected from active players thinks it's a good idea to make everyone refit all their ships for no real good reason.
Much like another poster, I logged in, saw that I had to refit the majority of my prop mods and redo fittings, undocked to see how horrible the icons were and logged out.
GJ |
Mari Camos
Finnish Space Jaegers Tactical Narcotics Team
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:33:14 -
[840] - Quote
The new ship icons are really, really bad. I mean... really bad.
1. They look too much alike to other icons in the overview -> easily confused to other stuff in OV -> other capsuleers in the overview cannot be seen clearly enough! 2. They are not as visible in space as the old, square coloured ones 3. NPC (CONCORD, Faction Police...) and PC ships get messed up at the gates
This was really not good for the PVP community.
Let the lager decide what is wrong, what is right.
|
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Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
107
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:37:00 -
[841] - Quote
I'll bet highsec level 4 runners who never pvp are loving being able to differentiate between frigates and destroyer rats 1 second quicker than before though. I guess that makes up for the clusterfuck it causes in pvp. |
xXchochiXx
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:37:26 -
[842] - Quote
overview symbols horrible please change back or make useful not like weird shapes their all just bad all very bad |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:39:00 -
[843] - Quote
Yogsoloth wrote: Nobody was calling for new icons, and new players will not benefit at all from them.
Yea...please make EVE Online for Noobies game separate from EVE Online. There you can make whatever changes, patches you wish and you will not mess in EVE Online. And the new players must convene. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
737
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:40:24 -
[844] - Quote
Tyr Dolorem wrote:I'll bet highsec level 4 runners who never pvp are loving being able to differentiate between frigates and destroyer rats 1 second quicker than before though. I guess that makes up for the clusterfuck it causes in pvp.
at 90% UI there is no difference, once red rats go flashy everything is just a red blurred blob. |
Marek Melkan
Full Spectrum Inc Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:41:37 -
[845] - Quote
The icons are pretty cool. They are going to need some getting used to, that's for sure but it's nice to be able to differentiate between frigs and dessies, etc at a glance. I feel for the people who complain that they can't make the difference. I'm guessing it's time for a new set of glasses maybe :) (I'm going to get at least one character attack for that last one)
The caracal is ugly. It was ugly before. Now it's ugly with style. So +1!
Looking forward to doing some explo, the many spoilers make that look Awesome!
All in all, thanks CCP.
I read a few people had issues with the download getting stuck at 2.05Gb and not doing anything. Just kill the launcher and start it again. It does another small download and then works fine.
Happy EVEing everyone! |
Eddie Mayer
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:43:51 -
[846] - Quote
Option for classic icons please !! |
Tewilligar
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:46:13 -
[847] - Quote
Marek Melkan wrote:The icons are pretty cool. They are going to need some getting used to, that's for sure but it's nice to be able to differentiate between frigs and dessies, etc at a glance. I feel for the people who complain that they can't make the difference. I'm guessing it's time for a new set of glasses maybe :) (I'm going to get at least one character attack for that last one)
The caracal is ugly. It was ugly before. Now it's ugly with style. So +1!
Looking forward to doing some explo, the many spoilers make that look Awesome!
All in all, thanks CCP.
I read a few people had issues with the download getting stuck at 2.05Gb and not doing anything. Just kill the launcher and start it again. It does another small download and then works fine.
Happy EVEing everyone!
You should have gone to specsavers! |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1604
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:51:07 -
[848] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:I can't speak to visual problems: even at my age (mid-40s), my astigmatic eyes can make the icons out clearly at 100% scaling without glasses and without headaches.
I like the consistency of the designs. I love that NPCs use the same icon set. I like that it's now easy to tell destroyers from cruisers from battlecruisers (or, in the case of rats, to tell frigates from destroyers). Like I mentioned to someone else before, I'm glad you don't have these problems with your age and eye condition, but that does not mean everyone else has the same luck. Especially since you are playing on 100% UI scale, you are shielded from half the issues these new icons are bringing. I invite you to change the UI scale to either 90% or 110% and see how you like them then after a couple of hours? c:
I did say that I can't speak to visual problems, not that there objectively aren't any. I clarified that I'm an older player with diagnosed astigmatism to avoid the snarky comments about being young with perfect vision. I can only wish for my 16-year-old eyes back.
I also said that I thought CCP would be done after they've fixed the scaling issue. They've acknowledged that their scaling algorithm needs to be replaced wholesale.
Dersen Lowery wrote:I do agree with you as well about the distinction between destroyer and frigate. Most of the people would agree that we would need more distinguished ship icons, but also most people say the way it has been implemented and the choice of designs was not ideal.
Nothing is. It took me about 20 minutes to get used to the ship icons and notice the thematic differences in the icon designs, so for me it's a straight improvement.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Kelur Hunter
Cause For Concern Easily Excited
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:56:27 -
[849] - Quote
Steijn wrote:first impression, new overview icons are *****!!!!!!! absolutely awful. I agree, they are very awful, and they need a rework immediately!
|
Wiccerakith
Cataclysm Enterprises Pandemic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 19:59:18 -
[850] - Quote
also ich gratuliere was habt ihr denn f++r n schlechten **** geraucht das euch diese symbole eingefallen sind.... und gleich vorweg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AN DEN SCHROTT WILL ICH MICH NICHT MAL IM ANSATZ GEW+ûHNEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mal davon ab das der mist f++r verz+¦gerungen im spiel sorgt nein die symbole sind zudem noch grotten h+ñ+ƒlich und verwirrend .. h+ñtte da mal ne idee f++r euch wenn ihr die sooo toll findet malt euch die aufs auto an euer haus oder auf die wand aber bitte bel+ñstigt uns damit nicht weiter oder gebt uns die wahl die alten zeichen nutzen zu k+¦nnen. und das bitte gestern !!!!
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Ragnar Rancidbreeks
SYNDIC Unlimited
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:03:05 -
[851] - Quote
Panterata wrote: Yea...please make EVE Online for Noobies game separate from EVE Online.
+2 so long as they get *no* loot, *no* salvage, and must pay 2x tax to their corp until they declare themselves not noobs any more.
Oh, and are crim-tagged at *all* times outside a noob-starter system
|
Taru Audeles
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:03:26 -
[852] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Also to address some of the concerns voiced, our overall aim was not to change the old icons just for the sake of something new or because we thought they weren't working, but to provide better granularity and at-a-glance awareness of the objects on grid. But change is tough and we are definitely keeping an eye on your feedback in all channels as we had been during testing on Singularity for the past while. This relatively small icons swap isn't an end-all-be-all "tough luck" change we're aiming to saddle the playerbase with. For now a few things
- I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely.
- Check out this image to help learn your icons: http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85
- While GÇ£deconstructive feedbackGÇ¥ is cathartic in some ways I am sure, itGÇÖs likely not going to help get your point across. We are looking for specific feedback: What specifically don't you like about the new icons? Can you share an in-game story or experience which backs up your conclusions? It's the kind of feedback that's most useful to us when making calls on these types of things.
- We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having.
Thanks for reading!
btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here? |
Steijn
Quay Industries
738
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:05:51 -
[853] - Quote
Taru Audeles wrote:btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here?
link works fine.
|
onlyengel
Cataclysm Enterprises Pandemic Legion
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:08:43 -
[854] - Quote
Wiccerakith wrote:also ich gratuliere was habt ihr denn f++r n schlechten **** geraucht das euch diese symbole eingefallen sind.... und gleich vorweg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AN DEN SCHROTT WILL ICH MICH NICHT MAL IM ANSATZ GEW+ûHNEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mal davon ab das der mist f++r verz+¦gerungen im spiel sorgt nein die symbole sind zudem noch grotten h+ñ+ƒlich und verwirrend .. h+ñtte da mal ne idee f++r euch wenn ihr die sooo toll findet malt euch die aufs auto an euer haus oder auf die wand aber bitte bel+ñstigt uns damit nicht weiter oder gebt uns die wahl die alten zeichen nutzen zu k+¦nnen. und das bitte gestern !!!!
Genau so sehe ich es auch.
Die neuen Symbole in der Overview sehen fast alle gleich aus, wie soll man da noch was unterscheiden k+¦nnen.
Wenn Ihr schon diese Symbole hier rein Kloppt, dann mach das Bitte doch auch so das man zwischen 1-2-3 Symbol-Typen w+ñhlen kann.
Denn diese Symbole sind echt das schlechteste was WIR seit der Erfindung des Schnittbrotes gesehen haben.
Danke im Voraus
PS: Wicce dein Kommentar ist Wahr |
Lahnius
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:11:58 -
[855] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Taru Audeles wrote:btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here? link works fine.
but it seems to be short a few icons ...
apparently this is the full list:
OMFG |
Ahed Sten
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:12:43 -
[856] - Quote
Woke up this morning to play and when I finished this afternoon: Nope, still terrible. They're still confusing and they still aren't any easier to read. They don't break the game, but neither do they add anything of value and they're very confusing.
These Icons have not grown on me because they are bad. They do not work. Furthermore, most Eve players don't care what the icons look like, because they don't need icons to identify ships - The name is usually enough. Adding these icons has done nothing but clutter the screen. The only people whose lives have been improved with this patch are the PVE'ers, and even that's questionable.
The ship name is all I need to identify a ship. I'd be quite content if every icon was simplified even more than it was originally, but seeing as how this is asking too much and will never, ever happen, CCP could at least revert them back to the old ones or figure out a way to let us choose which icons we use
Quite simply, these icons are garbage and apparently CCP has never heard of the phrase "Keep it simple, stupid."
|
Creep Behind
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:14:05 -
[857] - Quote
I hate just bitching about things but the new icons were not a good change. The simplicity of the icons before the change was the best thing about them. The bigger the "square" was, the larger the class ship it was. Some people might argue that giving each class ship its own icon would make it easier to identify the individual ship but the simplicity of the icons was the best feature.
Biggest example I can give is when your in a fleet fight. As everyone knows, when using the old icons, the bigger the "box" was the higher class ship it was. Frig- smallest box, Cap- biggest box. When using the icons as the filter on your overview it would put either the biggest box or smallest box at the top of your overview list, making it easier for an individual in small gang fleets to recognize what might be the enemies "tackle" (frig - small boxes) and what might be there "primary DPS" (battle ships - big boxes). With the new icons, we have lost the ability to do this because they don't fallow the same filter. This change of the filter also effects the ability of a solo player to identify "easy targets" (small boxes) when fighting larger numbers.
In this case, the simpler the icons were, the easier it makes it for the players. If they want to know exactly what the ship is, that is why there is an option to put the ship name on the overview list.
The old icons already did a good job of sorting the ships by hull size and class.
I would ask CCP to please bring back the old icons and the simplicity that they provided!!! |
Raz0r Ram0n
Imperial Crusaders
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:15:25 -
[858] - Quote
CCP, for what reasen the hell you replace the the good old overview icons with that rubbish???
I'm going to quit this nerved game ... Every month you bring in a new pointless change ... I'm really pissed off now ... Is your hidden agenda to scare your customers?
Raz0r
|
Mr Cubase
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:22:40 -
[859] - Quote
Sheesh, those icons.. I'm off to play something else while you fix this :) |
Boom Boom Longtime
EVE Corporation 6908469858 Heroes and Villains.
1163
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:24:42 -
[860] - Quote
New Icons are terrible.
Another thing that wasn't broken that was tinkered with for absolutely no plausible gain.
Please stop these 6 week development cycles if it puts staff under pressure to try and come up with things to include for the sake of it.
Not to mention no real viable Q&A period in any of these cycles to evaluate feedback prior to release (which always gets ignored regardless).
Did those at the top honestly sign off the bracket changes as an improvement to the game?
What will be yolo rolled out in another 6 weeks that didn't need changed?
The fact the vast majorty of people thought the change to the damage control was an April fools joke says it all.
Concord Approved Trader
|
|
Asp IV
Apex Abyss
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:31:25 -
[861] - Quote
The icons are not very user friendly or even well designed from a pure aesthetic viewpoint. That-¦s two fails
HUD needs to go simple and user friendly. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:33:04 -
[862] - Quote
terminating 3 accts....oh those were real dollars accts doubt i'm the only 1 |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 20:47:51 -
[863] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:I did say that I can't speak to visual problems, not that there objectively aren't any. I clarified that I'm an older player with diagnosed astigmatism to avoid the snarky comments about being young with perfect vision. I can only wish for my 16-year-old eyes back.
I also said that I thought CCP would be done after they've fixed the scaling issue. They've acknowledged that their scaling algorithm needs to be replaced wholesale. Oh, I was not talking bad at you c: I just wanted to ask you to try the 90% and 110% and see if your eyes and screen still are at an impass or not. As with many things of this magnitude, multifaceted problems will happen for some, while others don't have them at all. This is a sum of the playstyle and customization choices as well as adaptability of the individual player. All I am saying is, that only catering to SOME parts was not a good idea, and that this could have been prevented.
Sadly, while the algorithm is the problem, chances of it being replaced is next to impossible. The only way to fix it for good is crafting the different icon sets by hand, which is not much of an issue as I mentioned before. The thing is, the human eye uses different "hooks and anchors" the smaller something gets to distinguish it again. It is less about keeping exact proportions but more about keeping the "eyecatchers" distinguishable, while having them at a crisp appearance.
How about you pick someone with a bit more credibility? Like this gentleman? Who has written the following:
Eli Stan wrote:I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. This will help tremendously with small gang operations, IMO. Actually - and I do realize that this might be unique for me and doesn't apply to everybody, or even anybody, else - it's extremely easy for me to tell neutral NPCs from other players after this patch. It's not by icon, which I've never used to begin with. That's because all players are colored to me - purple for fleetmates, red/yellow for legal lowsec targets, and teal for everybody else. It makes it extremely easy to pick out ships from non-ships on the overview.
I would reckon he plays with 100% view, which probably has him not bothered of the scaling issue, but the icons nevertheless work for him, and he obviously is a pvp player who has things going for some time with success. Which means, there goes your argument, dear Lahnius.
Taru Audeles wrote:btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here? How about you... change the link by cutting away the stuff at the end until it ends with .jpg ? Like... going from http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg?w=1920&fm=jpg&q=85 to http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/4Hgu1BcYAE22wgokiKeYO4/4001f1c3132cc7749d9d25ec8851798e/NewOvervieBracket-IconsImage.jpg That should fix the issue, right? c: But you'd rather be better off using the full version as posted already too. |
Lendren
Blaze Orange Expeditions Absence of Light
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:00:53 -
[864] - Quote
So far I like what I see.
I don't understand why the overview was changed in leu of other things that need fixing, but I don't hate it either.
GJ keep it up! |
Lendren
Blaze Orange Expeditions Absence of Light
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:01:40 -
[865] - Quote
Ida Aurlien wrote:terminating 3 accts....oh those were real dollars accts doubt i'm the only 1
Can I have your stuff? |
Lendren
Blaze Orange Expeditions Absence of Light
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:02:52 -
[866] - Quote
Raz0r Ram0n wrote:CCP, for what reasen the hell you replace the the good old overview icons with that rubbish???
I'm going to quit this nerved game ... Every month you bring in a new pointless change ... I'm really pissed off now ... Is your hidden agenda to scare your customers?
Raz0r
Can I have your stuff? |
Baron Blackadder
Air The Initiative.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:05:56 -
[867] - Quote
Please can we have the old icons back, normally don't mind the changes but the new icon system is terrible |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1668
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:08:47 -
[868] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Eli Stan wrote:I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. This will help tremendously with small gang operations, IMO. Actually - and I do realize that this might be unique for me and doesn't apply to everybody, or even anybody, else - it's extremely easy for me to tell neutral NPCs from other players after this patch. It's not by icon, which I've never used to begin with. That's becauseall players are colored to me - purple for fleetmates, red/yellow for legal lowsec targets, and teal for everybody else. It makes it extremely easy to pick out ships from non-ships on the overview. I have make bold one small detail you have completely missed reading his post. He has 'COLORED' all the players.
So now we NEED to use SPECIAL settings to OVERCOME unneeded change IGNORING new UI ideology: "colors are not needed" (look at Neocom).
You really think it is ok?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Hallvardr
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:21:32 -
[869] - Quote
I think I figured out why the launcher is crashing .. it doesn't like the icons either and it's trying to protect our eyes. |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:22:57 -
[870] - Quote
Natascha Kerenski wrote:DHuncan wrote:DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off. Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part. Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE. It is not that i dont want to evolve and i think the majority of people who have problems with the new icons think about this very similar, it is that i dont want to adapt to a system that isnt working for me at all. The new icon system is not build intuitive nor consistent or logicaly...about the optical appearence, that point is argueable cause different people have differen taste and as long as ccp doesnt come up with smileys and pink stuff ill maybe accept it.....AS LONG AS IT IS WORKING! At this state i am not able to do decisions within a second and ill stay docked until ccp comes up with an solution i can live with.....best way i can imagine is they give us a fallback and work the new icon system out to a state wich is working and let people do quick decisions again.
The "I don't want to adapt to something not for me" is the same argument we hear from people when saying I dont want to pvp, leave me alone. And what we are hearing as an answer for almost a decade? This is not a sand box, maybe this game is not for you etc. I didnt like the answer the first time and I still dont like it. But this is not your game nor my game but a game need to find the ballance between so many oposite wills.
My point is, we have the cahnce to offer a feedback, we can say 'ok but the ice asteroid and the capsule icons are too similar' for example, and we may get a middle ground. But just the classical assholness, really, aren't we all tired of it already? Let's be constructive, we may opinate, even disagree, but like adults. That's the point.
I think it works because doesnt take away any info we previously had and instead is givin info we didnt have before. IMHO |
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:26:59 -
[871] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:You really think it is ok? I did not , and never said so, as I mentioned in my responses to him many pages back. And I have not missed this in his post, as mentioned back then.
But this does not change the fact that some people with some playstyles with existing customization options work out just as well as before. It was merely an example to show why some people can adjust easier than others, and that there are pvp players who manage to make it work for them, and another case how the system only works for a small amount of people. The only reason I quoted him was to show that not all pvp players think it is bad, and why they don't think so.
This was not to justify the steps made to overhaul icons are good on ALL levels. But it is important to understand why things work for some players, in order to make improvements on the other fronts, and to understand what was basically done right, and what was not.
I'm still tinkering with the idea of how it would work out if we free up the icon space while we are at it, now that icons become more important. put targeting things to the left of it, targeted, being targeted and being attacked AND the colour tags to the right of it. http://i.imgur.com/SKTXOdr.png |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:27:34 -
[872] - Quote
Staxu wrote:DHuncan wrote:DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off. Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part. Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE. Well I do not know what changed your thinking. Yes I love most of changes in EVE since I started to play gate jump effect, wh effect, new look of ships etc but new overview makes it messy and it's no only my opinion. It's not "Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE". I will give a try because my subscription is still on, but I think I will pack my POS , place it on station until patch giving a choice of overview.
I changed my mind cause I recognized my first reaction was coming from being unwillingly moved out of my comfort zone. I didn't really give a honest chance. Once I did, I may see a few problems but CCP seems open to talk about them, so we should not be the ones who close that door. As simple as that. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
284
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:31:42 -
[873] - Quote
I spend some time with new icons. Getting use to them. Most of them are fine. I don't pvp so can't really tell from that perspective. I can't see any improvement in some of most used of them. Do we need change in warp gates icon? Beacons (what is this? volcano? sun over a mountain? sun god of the inca?) What was the purpose of stations and gates change? Just fill the old ones and "look at this new shiny icons"?
Whole story is like with undock button. Ppl will whine, nothing will change, beacons will stay commodore 64 like thing. It's becoming a habit CCP, once per patch you introduce one tiny, unecessary, annoying change.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1701
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:36:38 -
[874] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:Natascha Kerenski wrote:DHuncan wrote:DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off. Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part. Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE. It is not that i dont want to evolve and i think the majority of people who have problems with the new icons think about this very similar, it is that i dont want to adapt to a system that isnt working for me at all. The new icon system is not build intuitive nor consistent or logicaly...about the optical appearence, that point is argueable cause different people have differen taste and as long as ccp doesnt come up with smileys and pink stuff ill maybe accept it.....AS LONG AS IT IS WORKING! At this state i am not able to do decisions within a second and ill stay docked until ccp comes up with an solution i can live with.....best way i can imagine is they give us a fallback and work the new icon system out to a state wich is working and let people do quick decisions again. The "I don't want to adapt to something not for me" is the same argument we hear from people when saying I dont want to pvp, leave me alone. And what we are hearing as an answer for almost a decade? This is not a sand box, maybe this game is not for you etc. I didnt like the answer the first time and I still dont like it. But this is not your game nor my game but a game need to find the ballance between so many oposite wills. My point is, we have the cahnce to offer a feedback, we can say 'ok but the ice asteroid and the capsule icons are too similar' for example, and we may get a middle ground. But just the classical assholness, really, aren't we all tired of it already? Let's be constructive, we may opinate, even disagree, but like adults. That's the point. I think it works because doesnt take away any info we previously had and instead is givin info we didnt have before. IMHO
Whist for some, there may be a resistance to any change, but I contend these are the minority. Most people are against BAD change however. The process you suggest of giving reasoned feedback, actually happened. On SISI, and we were relieved when the first attempt was shelved. However a new, uglier version was then released that addressed precisely ZERO of the suggestions and problems identified.
We now have something that is less legible, less useful, and less attractive than the classic Icons. They fail miserably when scaled, are over complex, difficuilt to distinguish, and cause some physical pain with eye strain.
Adding a slight amendmant to the classic icon would have solved All the benefits of the new ones. Instead We now have Ooh it's a destroyer, possibly, or loot, maybe. Can't tell for the other 300 icons covering it, why is that mobile depot shooting me?
Not a lot of plus sides there.
We identified that this would result in a massive trainwreck on sisi, and we hoped sanity would prevail, only to find, they put the foot hard on the throttle.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Jayden Thomas
The Scope Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:40:16 -
[875] - Quote
Three things:
1. First and foremost I'm happy ya'll up there in CCP are busy at work trying to make this the coolest internet spaceship game on the planet. Your hard work is appreciated and you're doing a super fine job. I still absolutely love this game.
2. I'm sorry, but ship textures are getting bad. Several of these ships look like they're made out of plastic. (That thanatos is really bad) It REALLY takes away from the realism, that immersion, that I've come to appreciate when I logon. I'm sure the development on this stuff has probably cost you guys a fortune, and I hate to complain, but #feedback_is_good right?
3. I too don't care for the new ship icons on the overview. Rollback requested. |
Kern Hotha
83
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:46:28 -
[876] - Quote
The new shaders are wonderful - great work. Eve is looking more beautiful than ever.
Regarding the icons: I use 90% scaling simply because in any game where I have the choice I will always make the UI as minimal as possible. It has been already been reported that the icons are faint at this scaling so I remain hopeful the icons be altered to accommodate the smaller scaling. It was not a change that seemed necessary to me, but perhaps in time the new icons will be more efficient.
We distinguish the excellent man from the common man by saying that the former is the one who makes great demands upon himself, and the latter who makes no demands on himself.
Jose Ortega y Gasset (1883 - 1955)
|
Mutaat
Incendiary Industries Holed Up
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:48:19 -
[877] - Quote
The game is great and I like the constant free updates, but for the love of God, fix the damn launcher or at least update the repair.exe tool. Launcher has never worked right on my Win7 64bit machine, now repair.exe is broken. I used the workaround and installed the pre-release version of launcher. That threw errors after today's patch. I worry that every time there is a new patch that all the workarounds I have to use to update my client won't work. |
Ichtys kuromitsu
Fit me I'm famous Astromechanica Federatis
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 21:52:38 -
[878] - Quote
The sentry nerf is to much for non ishtar /dominix user ... Can you tweak this ? And Nerf Ishtar hull or whatever else ?
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:13:09 -
[879] - Quote
Alex Garden wrote:-ö-¦ -ç-é-+-¦ -¦-¦-ü -+-¦-Ç-¦-¦-¦-Ç-+-â-+-+ -¦-¦-¦-Ç-à -+-¦-¦-+-+, -¦-ï -ç-é-+ -é-¦-+-Ç-+-é-¦? -É-¦-é-+-Ç-¦ -+-+-ü-+-¦-¦-+-¦-¦-+ -+-¦-é-ç-¦ -+-¦-¦-+ -+-¦ -¦-+-+ -+-+-ü-¦-¦-+-é-î -ÿ-¦-+-+-¦-+ -¦ -+-¦-¦-Ç-¦ -+-+-ä-+-Ç-+-¦-å-+-+ -+-¦ -+-¦-ü-â-é, -¦ -¦-+-¦-¦-Ç-¦ -+-¦ -ü-é-¦-+-å-+-+ -é-Ç-Ä-+ -¦-ï-+-¦-é-¦-¦-é -+-+-ü-é-+-Å-+-+-+, -+-¦ -+-+-+-+-¦-¦-¦-é -ü-¦-Ç-+-ü -+-¦-+-+, -é-+-+-î-¦-+ -Ç-¦-+-+-¦-+-+. -º-¦-Ç-é-+ -¦-ï.
No clue what he said, but there's a very unhappy emote in it so I'll fake it and decide he's not thrilled about something. Wonder what it could be?
Went rock eating this morning for about an hour and a half. Looted... empty and full wrecks, as I couldn't tell them apart so I just looted on principle. Some 'thing' warped it, reading far right details let me know a Golem was sitting a few thousand meters from my Skiff. Well no targeting and ouchie so I guess I didn't look too tasty. Then again, he might've been reading details to figure out what I was and if I was worth the target and ouchie as well.
Had to log out, both from RL needing some standing work and the beginnings of a nasty headache was ramping up on the right side of my skull. I doubt I'll 'get used' to this new icon set. I'm already fiddling with contrast, brightness, tint etc. as the graphics get brighter and brighter.
Asked a few peeps I know some questions, these non-gamers gave rather fascinating answers. To the Cad-Cam using architect, is it easier to scale up or shrink down an addition to an office complex on your software? Answer: stretch is easier than smoosh. Another is a computer software programming major currently in college. Which set of coding is easier to write? Upsize a segment of text, or downsize? Answer: easier to start small and scale up than start large and keep the text legible during compressing it's size.
For a base test subject, asked a CHEF who is so tech inept that his flip phone regularly wins their contests of wits, is it easier to double a recipe for a larger number of cookies, or take a larger but not full double batch one and cut it smaller for fewer cookies? Answer: doubling easier than dividing base ingredient amounts.
So my question to CCP is this: If it's known that whatever you are using to scale from 100% down to 90% is not top end and is an ongoing roadblock, why did you START at 100% and smoosh, instead of following a more logical and easier path, start small and expand? The cash was spent so that 'dirt' could be added to ship graphics. Just how much does that quality scaling machine of Uberness cost?
>Jeven
Just to mess with that thread stat thingy Chribba has.... icons bad icons bad icons bad.
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Blue Harrier
183
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:26:32 -
[880] - Quote
In general I donGÇÖt find the new icons too bad, however as I am colour blind I find the very small red icons very difficult to see against most backgrounds.
In fact for the first time ever I missed an incoming belt rat warping right next to my mining ship. The older red crosses although simple and not so GÇÿcoolGÇÖ or GÇÿforward thinkingGÇÖ were none the less far easier for me to see as the cross bars were that much bigger and held more colour.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
|
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Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:28:19 -
[881] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:
All in all, a good patch.
I'm a little disappointed in the rantings of those who are reacting so negatively to the icon changes.
These were comprehensively announced weeks ago in the dev blogs. These have been on SISI for some time now.
I hope everyone who is losing their **** here was active on the test servers up until now.....offering more constructive criticism than the childish, self absorbed, self entitled ranting like I'm seeing in this thread.
There are no surprises here. You were more than forewarned, and your feedback is constantly solicited ALL THE TIME for EVERY CHANGE.
To wake up one day and kick and scream when you had every opportunity to help prevent or modify changes you did not prefer only undermines your current outbursts.
Now adapt, or die.
Dan
Yes, they solicited our feedback. And when it was not as they wished it to be.. silence started on that Test Server thread. I am one of those that peeked over at Sisi and saw the upcoming icon change. Added more constructive suggestions there than I am adding here. This is not an 'out of the blue' or 'we didn't know!' situation. The ranting here is a result of ignored and/or overruled feedback long before it hit TQ. So the assumption becomes, CCP will ask for feedback but it'll get filed in the 'recycle bin' if not fitting to 'The Vision" inbound.
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
155
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:38:05 -
[882] - Quote
I'm not keen on NPCs using basically the same icons as players. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:41:03 -
[883] - Quote
Wiccerakith wrote:also ich gratuliere was habt ihr denn f++r n schlechten **** geraucht das euch diese symbole eingefallen sind.... und gleich vorweg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AN DEN SCHROTT WILL ICH MICH NICHT MAL IM ANSATZ GEW+ûHNEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! mal davon ab das der mist f++r verz+¦gerungen im spiel sorgt nein die symbole sind zudem noch grotten h+ñ+ƒlich und verwirrend .. h+ñtte da mal ne idee f++r euch wenn ihr die sooo toll findet malt euch die aufs auto an euer haus oder auf die wand aber bitte bel+ñstigt uns damit nicht weiter oder gebt uns die wahl die alten zeichen nutzen zu k+¦nnen. und das bitte gestern !!!!
Think that word 'symbole' might be something similar to 'shorthand visual sprite' or 'icon'. With the number of exclamation points he's either super happy with something dealing with 'symbole' or he's really really torqued off about that same word.
Soooooo... a timeline to that 'classic icon' check mark addition please?
I do know that nein is most likely a 'negatory there ghostrider' in my 'Merican translation.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:43:48 -
[884] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:To the Cad-Cam using architect, is it easier to scale up or shrink down an addition to an office complex on your software? Answer: stretch is easier than smoosh. Another is a computer software programming major currently in college. Which set of coding is easier to write? Upsize a segment of text, or downsize? Answer: easier to start small and scale up than start large and keep the text legible during compressing it's size. Yes, even though both use different systems (vector based versus fixed pixel based), in both cases it is better to expand than contract. But the issue here is a bit more delicate due to the tiny resolution. Even if this was a vector based system, we would still suffer from blurred edges because the differences simply don't fit on the pixels on the screen properly. This is why hand-crafted icons for each scale are inevitable in the long run.
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:So my question to CCP is this: If it's known that whatever you are using to scale from 100% down to 90% is not top end and is an ongoing roadblock, why did you START at 100% and smoosh, instead of following a more logical and easier path, start small and expand? Well, the icons don't look good upscaled either. The answer most likely is; their recorded demographics told them that the majority of players use 100% UI scale. Maybe less nice people would say they used the majority of what devs use in the office. I prefer thinking the statistical demographic thing, which is also the default for players to start the game with. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 22:50:09 -
[885] - Quote
Some of the icons are growing on me with use, and I do like how easy it is to tell destroyers/battlecruisers apart from their smaller kin now.
That being said, they scale very poorly, and have reduced contrast in some cases for the yellow 'waypoint' highlighting. Being able to choose our own colors instead of yellow, red, etc would go a long way I think. I am probably going to have to change my UI color scheme to make the new icons more visible. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
369
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 23:05:44 -
[886] - Quote
Some amendments to my earlier feedback:
Just came back from an engagement with roughly 100 ships on grid. Was flying bombers, zoomed out and with the grid overlay activated.
From my view it was almost impossible to differentiate between frigates and scout drones (no idea if there were other drones; the drones I mouse overed were Warrior IIs). The icons appear to have the same size, have the same basic shape and move nearly with the same speed. To tell which is which I either needed to mouse over or pay close attention for a moment. Unfortunately my concentration is elsewhere when I try to deliver a bomb to my targets and I simply don't have that time.
The main fleets were more or less crowded together resulting in a colored blob not unlike what we had before. However, the new icons were completely useless in that situation whereas the old icons usually allowed a good guess on general fleet setup.
Moreover cyno beacons (and jove listening towers) use a symbol that can be confused with a frigate icon and what's more important, it's a symbol that doesn't stand out. In the old overview a cyno beacon was very easy to percieve. But now there are a lot more icons that have a more or less similar style which makes it a lot harder to see it (at least for me).
Wreck icons are not really working either. They seem to be ok on paper, but with a larger number of ships and drones on the field they just don't stand out enough.
The new pod icon is what I would have expected for a shuttle (the icon looks like a small frigate icon). It's not really intuitive. The old pod icon was many times better and actually made sense.
It should also be mentioned, that we encountered some NPCs on our way to the battlefield. And I must say that it's really silly to give NPCs the same icons as player ships. Sure, when they are red, they stand out (unless you're colorblind). But when they are white, you wonder why someone brought an industrial instead of a valid fleet ship.
(Pro tip: when you use a triangular icon as the basis for player ships - which is perfectly ok with me - you should avoid using a triangular shape of similar size for anything else, be it NPCs, drones, deployables, structures or whatever.)
Yesterday I was checking out icons in Jita and surroundings and I thought it was bad. Now I think it is much worse.
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Demica Diaz
SE-1
143
|
Posted - 2015.06.03 23:47:56 -
[887] - Quote
Love new shaders but please give us option for higher res textures.
PS: How about some love for T3 cruisers. Those ships were last on list to balance and now last on list to get visual updates. |
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:14:16 -
[888] - Quote
Some posts makes me facepalm...many "customers" overestimate thier status in the relation to the Dev-¦s.... |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:33:06 -
[889] - Quote
Playerbase loading ..... .... ...still loading....... ...only trials found starting downtime |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
140
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:36:59 -
[890] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong?
This is actually about the color and type of new icons on the overview where you see your targets/enemies. They changed from the crosses and other small icons to the new triangles and such. The biggest thing I can see as a problem is not quickly seeing the difference between an NPC and a Player, or not as quickly as before. The other thing is that they can be blurry for a number of people.
That's what was meant with icon colors.
It looks like people that enjoy PVP most are having the hardest time with this, and even though I don't PVP much, I can easily see the frustration caused by this change. |
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:37:51 -
[891] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote:Eli Stan wrote:I spent a few hours over the weekend PvPing on SISI and found the new icons useful for telling different ship types apart when looking at the battlefield. Much better than differently sized squares. This will help tremendously with small gang operations, IMO. Actually - and I do realize that this might be unique for me and doesn't apply to everybody, or even anybody, else - it's extremely easy for me to tell neutral NPCs from other players after this patch. It's not by icon, which I've never used to begin with. That's becauseall players are colored to me - purple for fleetmates, red/yellow for legal lowsec targets, and teal for everybody else. It makes it extremely easy to pick out ships from non-ships on the overview. I have make bold one small detail you have completely missed reading his post. He has 'COLORED' all the players. So now we NEED to use SPECIAL settings to OVERCOME unneeded change IGNORING new UI ideology: "colors are not needed" (look at Neocom). You really think it is ok? Wait are you saying colors are not needed or that colors are?
I dunno, I do like the clean monocolor look a lot (its very modern and minimalistic) its just that I was better at finding what I wanted faster, back when the icons had color. |
Xen Solarus
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
877
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:38:13 -
[892] - Quote
Well after a few small-gang engagements, I can confirm that the new symbols are great at quickly distinguishing between ship sizes. I can imagine this being even more useful for newer players that are unaware of the various ships in EvE. It's a million times more useful than the previous method, which I just ignored and focused solely on the type of vessel. Nice work CCP!!!
I always enjoy how every. single. patch. is followed with a wave of revulsion. How is it that EvE players are the least adaptable to change?
My only question is why the original symbols that were floated in the dev blog here weren't used. They were a lot cooler, and I'm sure would have prompted (slightly) less disagreement. Perhaps you should try to change to them?
Post with your main, like a BOSS!
And no, i don't live in highsec. -áAs if that would make your opinion any less wrong. -á
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:40:58 -
[893] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:To the Cad-Cam using architect, is it easier to scale up or shrink down an addition to an office complex on your software? Answer: stretch is easier than smoosh. Another is a computer software programming major currently in college. Which set of coding is easier to write? Upsize a segment of text, or downsize? Answer: easier to start small and scale up than start large and keep the text legible during compressing it's size. Yes, even though both use different systems (vector based versus fixed pixel based), in both cases it is better to expand than contract. But the issue here is a bit more delicate due to the tiny resolution. Even if this was a vector based system, we would still suffer from blurred edges because the differences simply don't fit on the pixels on the screen properly. This is why hand-crafted icons for each scale are inevitable in the long run. Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:So my question to CCP is this: If it's known that whatever you are using to scale from 100% down to 90% is not top end and is an ongoing roadblock, why did you START at 100% and smoosh, instead of following a more logical and easier path, start small and expand? Well, the icons don't look good upscaled either. The answer most likely is; their recorded demographics told them that the majority of players use 100% UI scale. Maybe less nice people would say they used the majority of what devs use in the office. I prefer thinking the statistical demographic thing, which is also the default for players to start the game with. I hope all the people switching to 100% as a last resort doesn't mess with their statistics further. If they collect any. |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:41:30 -
[894] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:DHuncan wrote:Natascha Kerenski wrote:DHuncan wrote:DHuncan wrote:I logged, undocked, saw the icons, docked back again and logged off. Stop liking this post. It was the most stupid post I ever wrote and yet, by far, the one got more likes. CCP is doing a great job and that's why we are here. We have the chance to work with them by telling how we would change things. Acting like spoiled babies is not going to make this communication any easier for neither part. Some of the icons may be ambiguous but the most complaints are cause YOU dont want to evolve. Well, this is EvE, carebears, adapt or DIE. It is not that i dont want to evolve and i think the majority of people who have problems with the new icons think about this very similar, it is that i dont want to adapt to a system that isnt working for me at all. The new icon system is not build intuitive nor consistent or logicaly...about the optical appearence, that point is argueable cause different people have differen taste and as long as ccp doesnt come up with smileys and pink stuff ill maybe accept it.....AS LONG AS IT IS WORKING! At this state i am not able to do decisions within a second and ill stay docked until ccp comes up with an solution i can live with.....best way i can imagine is they give us a fallback and work the new icon system out to a state wich is working and let people do quick decisions again. The "I don't want to adapt to something not for me" is the same argument we hear from people when saying I dont want to pvp, leave me alone. And what we are hearing as an answer for almost a decade? This is not a sand box, maybe this game is not for you etc. I didnt like the answer the first time and I still dont like it. But this is not your game nor my game but a game need to find the ballance between so many oposite wills. My point is, we have the cahnce to offer a feedback, we can say 'ok but the ice asteroid and the capsule icons are too similar' for example, and we may get a middle ground. But just the classical assholness, really, aren't we all tired of it already? Let's be constructive, we may opinate, even disagree, but like adults. That's the point. I think it works because doesnt take away any info we previously had and instead is givin info we didnt have before. IMHO Whist for some, there may be a resistance to any change, but I contend these are the minority. Most people are against BAD change however. The process you suggest of giving reasoned feedback, actually happened. On SISI, and we were relieved when the first attempt was shelved. However a new, uglier version was then released that addressed precisely ZERO of the suggestions and problems identified. We now have something that is less legible, less useful, and less attractive than the classic Icons. They fail miserably when scaled, are over complex, difficuilt to distinguish, and cause some physical pain with eye strain. Adding a slight amendmant to the classic icon would have solved things, giving All the worthwhile benefits of the new ones. Instead We now have Ooh it's a NPC destroyer, possibly, or loot, maybe. Can't tell for the other 300 icons covering it, why is that shooting me? It's a player??? .........But Nice corpse icon ........ Not a lot of plus sides there. We identified that this would result in a massive trainwreck on sisi, and we hoped sanity would prevail, only to find, they put the foot hard on the throttle.
Fair enough. Why CCP say they are ssssooooooo attentive to this thread feedback? Is not a bad question, is it? |
Mister Ripley
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:41:51 -
[895] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:[...] I may see a few problems but CCP seems open to talk about them, so we should not be the ones who close that door. As simple as that. Hahahha Muahahah haha hahhahaha lololololol
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 00:43:42 -
[896] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Well after a few small-gang engagements, I can confirm that the new symbols are great at quickly distinguishing between ship sizes. I can imagine this being even more useful for newer players that are unaware of the various ships in EvE. It's a million times more useful than the previous method, which I just ignored and focused solely on the type of vessel. Nice work CCP!!! I always enjoy how every. single. patch. is followed with a wave of revulsion. How is it that EvE players are the least adaptable to change? My only question is why the original symbols that were floated in the dev blog here weren't used. They were a lot cooler, and I'm sure would have prompted (slightly) less disagreement. Perhaps you should try to change to them? People get used to the status quo. And (when people can't customize their UI enough) they get real touchy about any further disruptions to the UI that they know and are comfy with.
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
140
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 01:16:10 -
[897] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:
Whist for some, there may be a resistance to any change, but I contend these are the minority. Most people are against BAD change however. The process you suggest of giving reasoned feedback, actually happened. On SISI, and we were relieved when the first attempt was shelved. However a new, uglier version was then released that addressed precisely ZERO of the suggestions and problems identified.
We now have something that is less legible, less useful, and less attractive than the classic Icons. They fail miserably when scaled, are over complex, difficuilt to distinguish, and cause some physical pain with eye strain.
Adding a slight amendmant to the classic icon would have solved things, giving All the worthwhile benefits of the new ones. Instead We now have Ooh it's a NPC destroyer, possibly, or loot, maybe. Can't tell for the other 300 icons covering it, why is that shooting me? It's a player??? .........But Nice corpse icon ........
Not a lot of plus sides there.
We identified that this would result in a massive trainwreck on sisi, and we hoped sanity would prevail, only to find, they put the foot hard on the throttle.
Quote:People get used to the status quo. And (when people can't customize their UI enough) they get real touchy about any further disruptions to the UI that they know and are comfy with.
I'm contrasting Hakaari's statement with one from earlier. It's not 'resistance to change' here. It's real loss of functionality involving players processing and working with the game. I can't see how one could see even a couple of pages of this thread and not understand that unless they're just happy to see so many folks' enjoyment trashed by a willfully obtuse implementation, concerning the icon swap. Something must have been operating behind the scenes on this issue. The testers were very vocal about both the 1st and 2nd sets of icons used. This was already a flashing stop sign on the issue, but instead of checking to make sure that a massive mistake wasn't going to be made, the team pushed the change through.
Now perhaps they can alter the icons to address the issues that have come up with visibility and also the other difficulties presented. But generally, we're not in 2009, or 2011. Incarna-type decisions have worse consequences for keeping the playerbase in EVE now, in 2015. There's more competition and the head decision-makers have got to keep that in mind. Allowing for player input, rather than ignoring them to maintain a schedule would be one way to address player unhappiness. |
HELLBOUNDMAN
Engineering Without Permits
196
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 01:21:10 -
[898] - Quote
Only problem I have with the new Icons is that it's difficult to tell the difference from frig = destroyer and cruiser = battlecruiser
I have to focus on the icon as the line underneath on destroyer and BC is difficult to make out. Doesn't fit well for people with astigmatism.
Needs to have better definition, like a wreck vs a wreck with loot. |
Simon Ijonen
Capts Deranged Cavaliers Gentlemen's.Club
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 01:43:35 -
[899] - Quote
Day 2, the exefile does not respond upon being launched. This patch is a complete and utter failure, please unfuck yourselves ASAP. |
Skurja Volpar
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
136
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 01:51:23 -
[900] - Quote
Minmatar ships looking amazing. |
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
389
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 01:54:47 -
[901] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Well after a few small-gang engagements, I can confirm that the new symbols are great at quickly distinguishing between ship sizes. I can imagine this being even more useful for newer players that are unaware of the various ships in EvE. It's a million times more useful than the previous method, which I just ignored and focused solely on the type of vessel. Nice work CCP!!! I always enjoy how every. single. patch. is followed with a wave of revulsion. How is it that EvE players are the least adaptable to change? My only question is why the original symbols that were floated in the dev blog here weren't used. They were a lot cooler, and I'm sure would have prompted (slightly) less disagreement. Perhaps you should try to change to them?
When I started playing many years ago 30k or more users on at a time were a regular occurrance and there were regular attempts at a going for a record number of players being logged on together (think the record was in the mid 40ks) . Now when I log in its low 20s all the time. Its apparent that people have been voting with their feet for awhile now. So its not just a question of newness leading to revulsion that is gotten over with after awhile, its more of a problem with CCP losing touch with what its players want which is a function of them not listening to feedback.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Plane Walkerz
Unknown Crusade
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 02:18:04 -
[902] - Quote
Please change the Battleship icon, it looks terrible (we are not playing OIDS).
The rest of the icons are fine, although swapping the icon for the intensive reprocessing array with the wormhole seems like a pretty silly thing to do from a design point of view rather than making your own custom icons, but I guess a 16 bit drawing does take a long time with MS Paint TM gotta zoom in and then zoom in again and then zoom in again, wait zoom out a bit, ok zoom in again...
[b][i]-The Unknown-
Sleepers abound and hunger for blood
There are few brave enough to look for a fight with these tyrants,
but those who are brave and hold true to their goal will prevail[/i][/b]
|
Plane Walkerz
Unknown Crusade
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 02:22:12 -
[903] - Quote
Xen Solarus wrote:Well after a few small-gang engagements, I can confirm that the new symbols are great at quickly distinguishing between ship sizes. I can imagine this being even more useful for newer players that are unaware of the various ships in EvE. It's a million times more useful than the previous method, which I just ignored and focused solely on the type of vessel. Nice work CCP!!! I always enjoy how every. single. patch. is followed with a wave of revulsion. How is it that EvE players are the least adaptable to change? My only question is why the original symbols that were floated in the dev blog here weren't used. They were a lot cooler, and I'm sure would have prompted (slightly) less disagreement. Perhaps you should try to change to them? See these Icons actually look like some thought and time went into them, good job on a complete fail at implementation of what you proposed to your players CCP.
[b][i]-The Unknown-
Sleepers abound and hunger for blood
There are few brave enough to look for a fight with these tyrants,
but those who are brave and hold true to their goal will prevail[/i][/b]
|
Ma'Casonell
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 02:32:40 -
[904] - Quote
I liked the old icons better, I wish CCP would allow us to choose which icons we want to use. |
BladeKnight2010
Spyders From Mars
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 02:36:49 -
[905] - Quote
New Icons: Reject, Reject, Reject. Bring back the standard Icons |
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
85
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 03:03:23 -
[906] - Quote
Well Carnyx definitely released, but I think it's a bit presumptive on your part to say it's successful. The new overview icons are terrible. I understand you were trying enable players to get better information from what is displayed, but the way you went about it is just horrible.
I will admit that they are an increment better than what you had originally shown to us, but they are still extremely poorly thought out and implemented.
First: All the icon types need to be extremely distinctive from the other icon classes. (ie ships from structures from planets etc) Second: Ship weight classes should be very clearly delineated. Third (and this is where the ball was dropped): Icons should be easily explainable. This is key when trying to teach newer players what the different things in the UI are.
My greatest frustration in this whole mess is that this is a repeat of several other "great ideas" you have forced on us over the last few years. I don't think this is quite like monocles, however this is much akin to the inventory UI overhaul awhile ago (Winferno wasn't it?) which made the game extremely tedious when juggling inventory and POS work became a living nightmare. The largest source of frustration now as then was that the players had TOLD you repeatedly in advance that it wasn't good/ready/sane and you still kicked an unpolished Vista turd out the door at us.... because....... I think the only reason I can come up with is CCP got embarrassed at the Youtube videos showing the old overlays and wanted to make it look a bit more sexy to people who had no idea what they were actually watching.
BTW: In addition to the icons themselves, your update tweaked my overview settings. I now have various ship types that don't show up on overviews when they definitely did before. Having to go in and manually fixing stuff like that on top of all the other tweaks is just the fun icing on the cake at the end. |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 03:07:42 -
[907] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:DHuncan wrote:
Whist for some, there may be a resistance to any change, but I contend these are the minority. Most people are against BAD change however. The process you suggest of giving reasoned feedback, actually happened. On SISI, and we were relieved when the first attempt was shelved. However a new, uglier version was then released that addressed precisely ZERO of the suggestions and problems identified.
We now have something that is less legible, less useful, and less attractive than the classic Icons. They fail miserably when scaled, are over complex, difficuilt to distinguish, and cause some physical pain with eye strain.
Adding a slight amendmant to the classic icon would have solved things, giving All the worthwhile benefits of the new ones. Instead We now have Ooh it's a NPC destroyer, possibly, or loot, maybe. Can't tell for the other 300 icons covering it, why is that shooting me? It's a player??? .........But Nice corpse icon ........
Not a lot of plus sides there.
We identified that this would result in a massive trainwreck on sisi, and we hoped sanity would prevail, only to find, they put the foot hard on the throttle.
Quote:People get used to the status quo. And (when people can't customize their UI enough) they get real touchy about any further disruptions to the UI that they know and are comfy with. I'm contrasting Hakaari's statement with one from earlier. It's not 'resistance to change' here. It's real loss of functionality involving players processing and working with the game. I can't see how one could see even a couple of pages of this thread and not understand that unless they're just happy to see so many folks' enjoyment trashed by a willfully obtuse implementation, concerning the icon swap. Something must have been operating behind the scenes on this issue. The testers were very vocal about both the 1st and 2nd sets of icons used. This was already a flashing stop sign on the issue, but instead of checking to make sure that a massive mistake wasn't going to be made, the team pushed the change through. Now perhaps they can alter the icons to address the issues that have come up with visibility and also the other difficulties presented. But generally, we're not in 2009, or 2011. Incarna-type decisions have worse consequences for keeping the playerbase in EVE now, in 2015. There's more competition and the head decision-makers have got to keep that in mind. Allowing for player input, rather than ignoring them to maintain a schedule would be one way to address player unhappiness.
That quotation mentions me but those are not my words. I never wrote that text. |
Sere O'Asis
Origin Stories
49
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 03:13:33 -
[908] - Quote
I prefer the old icons as well.
My vision is such the new icons are "fuzzy". (Or blob-ish, as many others describe.) As an example the new wreck (with loot) icon appeared to me to be a "stick drawing" of a daisy, until I changed my UI scaling to 150%.
My vision is such I simply cannot see many of the fine granulation/pixelation details of the new icons.
Literally.
And I play on at 27 inch screen. |
Qicia
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 03:14:41 -
[909] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:DHuncan wrote:
Whist for some, there may be a resistance to any change, but I contend these are the minority. Most people are against BAD change however. The process you suggest of giving reasoned feedback, actually happened. On SISI, and we were relieved when the first attempt was shelved. However a new, uglier version was then released that addressed precisely ZERO of the suggestions and problems identified.
We now have something that is less legible, less useful, and less attractive than the classic Icons. They fail miserably when scaled, are over complex, difficuilt to distinguish, and cause some physical pain with eye strain.
Adding a slight amendmant to the classic icon would have solved things, giving All the worthwhile benefits of the new ones. Instead We now have Ooh it's a NPC destroyer, possibly, or loot, maybe. Can't tell for the other 300 icons covering it, why is that shooting me? It's a player??? .........But Nice corpse icon ........
Not a lot of plus sides there.
We identified that this would result in a massive trainwreck on sisi, and we hoped sanity would prevail, only to find, they put the foot hard on the throttle.
Quote:People get used to the status quo. And (when people can't customize their UI enough) they get real touchy about any further disruptions to the UI that they know and are comfy with. I'm contrasting Hakaari's statement with one from earlier. It's not 'resistance to change' here. It's real loss of functionality involving players processing and working with the game. I can't see how one could see even a couple of pages of this thread and not understand that unless they're just happy to see so many folks' enjoyment trashed by a willfully obtuse implementation, concerning the icon swap. Something must have been operating behind the scenes on this issue. The testers were very vocal about both the 1st and 2nd sets of icons used. This was already a flashing stop sign on the issue, but instead of checking to make sure that a massive mistake wasn't going to be made, the team pushed the change through. Now perhaps they can alter the icons to address the issues that have come up with visibility and also the other difficulties presented. But generally, we're not in 2009, or 2011. Incarna-type decisions have worse consequences for keeping the playerbase in EVE now, in 2015. There's more competition and the head decision-makers have got to keep that in mind. Allowing for player input, rather than ignoring them to maintain a schedule would be one way to address player unhappiness. That quotation mentions me but those are not my words. I never wrote that text.
Your right. It was this guy epicurus ataraxia wrote: he missed quoted 1 to far
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Vila eNorvic
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 03:39:44 -
[910] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Taru Audeles wrote:btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here? link works fine. No, it doesn't work at all. |
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Vila eNorvic
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 03:41:22 -
[911] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:Steijn wrote:Taru Audeles wrote:btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here? link works fine. but it seems to be short a few icons ... apparently this is the full list: OMFG And that one doesn't work either. |
Qicia
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:00:51 -
[912] - Quote
This might take a reply or two but i'll start here as an example of rage of change is relevant to this patch and feedback asked for.
Response via Alliance Forums.
Quote:I've said this many times. In order for me to consider playing eve on any given day, I need a 4 hour window. Insert Fatigue changes and you now have a "Go **** yourself" situation.
However, taking into consideration not everyone is like myself where less than 4 hours is worth logging in for as an FC.
Any timer I post I'll attempt at least 2-4 hours prep time (Knowing me were going through a wormhole). Intel and allied coordination previous day and day off. So this resorts to playing the day before the fleet even occurs normally to make sure things are in order leading up to the 2-4 hour pre-op prep readiness for certain surprise fights.
So prep time and a 4 hour window for fleet normally tells me I need a 6 hour window. Moreover, so that Bill, Bob and WillJABlowme can enjoy a well thought out and timed fleet under 2 hours. (which isn't normally the case) Eve takes time and effort. Normally you could just put x amount of effort and you get x amount of excitement back "like most games."
Eve with fatigue whether you agree with it or not has multiplied the time and effort needed to get x amount of excitement back from the game because CCP has now changed the Chaos effect we (majority of big alliances) enjoyed. The effect of fatigue has been noticeable all around since it's implementation.
Take Fatigue away and all of a sudden you have chaos once again and a rise in conflicts with more player base which made eve what it was yesterday. A MMO.
Everyone is bunkering down for the long haul at the expense of players of old "i'm almost 10 years old" who do not want to put more time and effort into a game that already took x amount of time and effort in order to enjoy your time well spent.
Numbers are down across the board because Eve used to be young, ruthless and epic. It's now become old, boring and non-risk-based. B-R was the Climax of this game with the adoption of the new changes to "mass projection."
Those who loved the game with pure passion like myself where we could dream up fits, fights and tactics and had the means to do so...still can but it comes down to time and effort and now age and responsibilities of those who first fell in love with it comes into play.
Brave alliance has been a healthy injection to the game *content hub*. Like anything in order to make the game progress we need certain people to step up and lead corps, alliances, coalitions, fleets etc... because without those types of people the game becomes stagnant with little progression in a player driven game.
Thera is a temporary patch to content not a solution imo. *content hub*
Timezones across eve have dwindled in active players online and if we go back to the 4 hour window needed to play I'd almost rather play more instant satisfaction based games like BF4, LOL, SC2, COD etc... than hope for a positive change to finally be injected into the game....fozzisov...maybe
Some might say go run a small gang...go lead a small fleet. In an alliance/Coalition FC's eyes this might be fine for the odd joe but in a game where being relevant is boss, running a small gang or fleet doesn't make said "FC" relevant in the eyes of his counterparts.
In the current world of convenience is everything this game does not provide convenience.
Q
PS: Bill, bob and pete can play eve and take up twice the amount of time needed now with the changes or save 800$ a year and play something new. Which is really what it comes down to for some if you kept up with the outside forums. Depending on how many accounts you run.
PS PS: CCP in some way shape or form has stabbed the old players in the back with these changes hoping the young will run with the torch.....However if the torch isn't picked up and run with it will be left burning and soon blow out.
I bring this up as a reference to change and player reaction as a result.
Forced changes whether you agree with them or not have an adverse effect on the willingness of X amount of people that will put up with these forced changes. I've yet to see a scale back on Capital movement and fatigue since it's implementation as it makes for a less active player base as it won't be able to be involved in large scale conflicts unless your wh lucky.
Now we arrive at a new patch where you "CCP" attempt to change something not broken. You have an old school player base who is loyal to the game. Hoping you haven't burned a % of them away from the fatigue change. So please keep in mind that we the Eve Old players 31 myself as stated above have a certain degree of willingness to put up with the continuation of changes that are irrelevant while moving into your fozziesov stage in eve.
I'll continue with 3 relevant quotes a bit different from each other.
PS: When I noticed the new fancy pants map.....As an FC who scans religiously the new version isn't as efficient and functional like the old one. Thank you for placing an option to keep the old one. <-----hint hint.
Apologies to the font size and bad grammar. Hopefully the point gets across.
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Qicia
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:02:01 -
[913] - Quote
Continuation of points that I agree with and share my opinion on:
Comment by: Proxay Stimulus Rote Kapelle
Quote:Hi Surge, and CCP Art Team. I hope you take the time to read my comments regarding the new icon set, I've been playing EVE for nigh-on a decade myself, and have spent the time in space doing various forms of PVP warfare. The new Icon set has a fantastic philosophy, the idea behind the pointy and flat tops, the lines and other little details are very intelligent design language. But... They are not 'at-a-glance' icon sets, they are in fact very far from being intuitive during combat in EVE. I've been on SiSi for a few hours in the past few weeks during our alliance tournament practice matches so I've had to endure the new changes and am totally opposed to the new icon sets from a combat perspective. The core issue is the amount of detail you put in, it's the complete opposite of the old icon set which was absolutely fantastic and easy to follow during intense circumstances: Squares were player ships - every time. "+"s were NPC ships, whether they be Agents, Pirates, Mission Rats or Faction Agents "x"s were drones, it didn't matter small/medium/large/fighter - they were drones of some type. Wrecks were these odd little triangle things that were like very little else in game. These four things are the most you'll interact with in EVE PVP, they need to each stand alone and be discernable at-a-glance to understand the situation you're engaged in. The old icon set despite age communicated this brilliantly and stood the test of time for players in use for over a decade. Considering the UI is the only way most players know what is going on, changes here seem to be taken lightly and without cautious review or player buy-in. Even the option to flick back to old is not there which is what is causing most of the fury. Okay now that I've explained what worked in the old set, lets look at what doesn't work in the new set. - First off - there is too much detail, simplify the design. - Drone icons are now bigger than frigate hulls and stand out a lot more - even though the Frigate hull a far more threatening opponent than a drone. - There are far too many ship icons now, you already need to remember hundreds of ship names and classes, let alone icon sets that are this specific. - Place 20 pilots on a grid and have each of them drop 5 drones, then set them to fight. In small-gang meta it is very confusing and hard to see what you are targeting or shooting, drones and ships are not discernable. - Take a look at this image ( https://i.imgur.com/ighoK8j.png ) - this is a small 11 v 10 fight, yet it is very hard to see what is going on from this view (at a glance). If you sit and study it, you can get it, but not with a quick look before you go back to managing module heat. In my opinion these four things should look nothing alike: * Ships * Drones * NPCs * Wrecks Everything else is lesser used and can be studied, but the above 4 are things that require view priority. Probably the most silly thing in this whole debacle is how little attention was payed to the player feedback from SiSi, and how quickly you implemented this icon set. Please allow players to use the old set while you polish the new set. I would love to use them once you achieve the above objectives. Cheers.
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Qicia
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:02:55 -
[914] - Quote
Continued Again of shared opinion:
Commented by:
Quote:Natya Mebelle Center for Advanced Studies Let me tackle this one by one:
1) The reasons to overhaul icons are profound and correct. I enjoy the different asteroid icons now, and old ship brackets did not convey information properly. But I have never heard anyone saying they have problems with icons OTHER than ships. Not only are you confusing people by re-using the same icon for something DIFFERENT, but you are not using the icon real estate well enough, by not using enough different forms and fills. You should have only touched ship icons for now. A "tiericide" of the overview icons instead of a full blown revamp. Ship icons do not follow a pattern which is distinguishable enough to make a difference. This is the reason why the previous test was an utter failure because it relied on one basic shape alone.
2) Please don't say that. The feedback was bad enough, both times. We are concerned that you will actually never change a thing because since the last patch there have been ZERO improvements on Opportunities, and of the 4 starmap changes only ONE was significant since it was a bug fix. Opportunities affect "only" new players (it's just your future income) and we can still revert to the old map. We cannot revert icons.
3) You mean like the people who tested the icons on sisi for weeks already?
4) I'm sorry to say this, but this image is incomplete, and you know it. Why do you post incomplete information? This is like opportunities. They're half baked and clearly not finished, and now everybody has to pay the price. Please update the image with all icons, thank you.
5) Counter question: Are you going to pay the people who do your job? Are there going to be rewards for people who spend their free time to explain the issue of a product they are already paying for, and even invest more time to come up with solutions, all voluntarily? I can make a full set of icons which fix the issues with ships people are having, and I can scale the new ones AND the icons which are fine for all 4 sets. But who will reward me for doing so? Who will reward me with the time I can NOT spend playing in game? Talk to CCP Larrikin about my extensive feedback on the starmap which was not posted in the forum. He asked for it. And that was not even the full thing.
But to satisfy you with a little bit here: MOSTLY ship icons are bad, but overall you got too much into detail. The cargo container and wreck variance is useless. You brought too many distinctions which were not needed or wanted.
6) You are absolutely correct, it is an all or nothing scenario, and you were right to NOT allow the other set of icons for exactly this reason. This is proof that you all have the brains to make the right decisions! Which makes it even extra sad as to why some things go so horribly wrong :c
7) Not custom, but FIXED first. We have yellow for destinations. We have red for hostile NPCs. We only use white for neutral NPC and player ships. To avoid the green, give player ships AND player structures a light teal, which makes all NPC owned entities keep their white. Or do the reverse. Either way, let it be consistent. We had a great distinction between player and NPC before due to two completely different shapes. Now you are stuck with only two scenarios: colour one different than white, or fill out the player owned entities, while keeping the NPC ones empty. colour customization on an individual basis can be implemented LATER, since it won't magically make the problems with ship icons disappear.
8) I repeat what I wrote earlier: "If you have an UI that allows fixed scaling, then you need to design from the SMALLEST possible UI choice first, and then HANDCRAFT upwards for the next versions. If it looks crisp and good on smallest size, it will look good on larger versions since you have more space to fill pixels with. Going from one size and scale it to smaller and larger sizes is the worst kind of lazy."
You KNEW about scaling issues AND ignored it? Designing one set per scale is not super hard work once the figures have been designed once. You do not have a seamless percentage slider from 75% to 150% . You only have 4 specific scaling sets. I could demonstrate you a full mockup, but who pays me with ISK for this demonstration for time I would not be playing Eve?
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Qicia
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:06:56 -
[915] - Quote
Final Continuation of shared opinion a bit more reactive:
Quote: Jared Tobin Bloodstone Industries B.S.I. OVERVIEW ICON FEEDBACK:
The immediate impression (not meant as "destructive" but honestly what went through my mind at first use):
Is it a stargate or a freighter? Wait, stargate is filled, or is that an oblonged planet symbol glitch? Is that a frigate or a squadron fleet booster icon symbol near me? Wait, another frigate now looks like the old depot symbol, but completely different from the other frigate... or wait.. what is that? Getting to our POS, suddenly a whole new slew of questions and pauses literally came into view: Is it a secure can or a laser battery now? Why do POS arrays and labs look so completely different from each other symbol-wise (honestly, I'm feeling a bit arcade-nostalgic: is it a "squiggly jellyfish" or an "open frog mouth" in an 8-bit arcade game)?
Then it kept hitting me: I have this weird feeling like I'm playing Pac-Man's and Frogger's love-child.
I couldn't get it out of my mind... And then I had my serious afterthoughts before constructing this feedback (for now):
Those questions waxing nostalgic in my mind (above) are examples of the many differentiating issues that went through my head continuously with what also seemed like a "lack of cohesion" to a basic build off an attempted idea of an "Overview overhaul".
However, it wasn't (and still isn't) making a lot of "connective/logical" sense. I suddenly became aware I was spending more time trying to figure out "what is what" in space rather than playing the game and "adjusting" - the oh so unthoughtfully unproductive response some have given conveyed with "oh you'll adjust" or "people don't like change" that some have responded with.
And THAT was clencher: "It isn't making sense". It didn't become "past tense". "What IS what?" continued with each system jump, each movement, each destination arrived at. Just when I thought I was getting some idea of "intent" of iconography, something else passed by me, or popped up in the Overview that continued my quandry.
If there was a "method to the madness" iconographic approach, then I had hoped I'd have understood it after a few system jumps/routine activity testing. But after 3 hours, I still wasn't adjusting. It became clear in my mind that this new set of symbols lacked cohesion/sense.
Example: Previously, a "bracket" rectangle with someone's name gave my brain an understanding that I was near a ship, and the shape/size of that simple bracket gave me a quick idea of relative size of that ship.. and I knew immediately it was a player's ship, not an NPC ship. Now, however, everything is not as it seems, and I wasn't even in a heavily populated system. Hell, it may have been a glitch, but I passed by two frigates: each one had DIFFERENT symbols. So just when I thought I understood "size", I failed. Then a freighter went by, and I didn't think "oh, another ship"... That was hinting to a problem for ship iconography. Also it hinted at a problem of consistancy.
Then the issue of objects other than ships came into the mix. The "method to the madness" was not obvious at all: If "solid" objects are "shaded"/"filled" symbols like planets, stations, and even the odd "pebble" like icon of an asteroid belt, then my brain asked the next logical question: Why are stargates shaded? Are they oval planets- wait, no, the aroow, but.. And then I questioned: why are Customs Offices and POS towers "hollow" (unshaded) squares? Even the labs, arrays and refineries (which are logically "solid" objects in space) are hollow, not shaded. They also may all be POS modules in orbit around a tower, but there is no shape-cohesion to make "sense" of. ("Is that a refinery or a hollow magnet?", seriously was a visual question my brain was flip-flopping back and forth on. Seriously.)
The lack of consistency is definitely something that should be re-addressed. After all, if your symbol for navigation to "warp to and jump through" a stargate icon is an arrow going through a HOLLOW, perfect CIRCLE, but the symbol for the stargate in the Overview just below those options is not a perfect circle AND it also is shaded, then something needs to be addressed on consistency. I do not look forward to seeing the various ship shapes and other symbols I'll have to sort out on a mission or when I visit a system like Jita, but if I feel that way already, the mental hesitation marks will remain indelible until some changes are made.
If a reverted "simple" bracket system and correction to the stargate and POS/outpost symbols are re-visited, re-addressed and redesigned - along with some color changes or options implemented (I was not able to determine an untouched from a touched wreck/can, for example), then perhaps this change would not be so jarring and continually affective to my visual assessment to gameplay every new relocation. And yes, if one reads this sentence correctly: It is possible that the Overview of the game can be "continually affective" and jarring to me now, in its current state, and therefore be "ineffective" to me the entire time I am not docked.
Initially I undocked from jita while reading all the shocker replies in here hoping to get a view of the majority and than see for myself.
I noticed that yes this would take some time for the brain to get used to and get to the point of quick glance response times when leading a fleet but as i've previously quoted this isn't the case. Almost 10 years in the game and with this change it seems like most of what I'm looking at is different sized incomplete shapes that override the use and hard work of the ship skins and overview tab selections.
Having a UI icon change that basically copies the old school space invaders game isn't what you want. Atleast the old icon setup was original and wasn't referenced and now seen as another game other than just EVE.
Q |
Grogidubnus
Monkey Steals The Peach
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:15:25 -
[916] - Quote
Whoever pushed for, and designed the overview icons, go ahead and fire them. Next time, ask the players if we want you to ruin an aspect of this game. Whoever designed these overview icons obviously doesn't play, and is probably an art school failure. Give us the option to decide which icon pack we want to use for our overviews at the very least. Also, give us the option to delete the garbage Beta Map from our game directories. I don't even want that trash taking up space on my hard drive.
Absolute fail. I actually feel embarrassed for you.
CCP's motto: If it ain't broke, fix it till it is. |
Qicia
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:17:00 -
[917] - Quote
http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/2uSgE3niC8SII8wmGUkSgM/8984203842d475c24c86e0cb2419698c/NewOverviewBrackets_Legend.png
Here is the complete new icon list. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
808
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:21:09 -
[918] - Quote
Creep Behind wrote:Biggest example I can give is when your in a fleet fight. As everyone knows, when using the old icons, the bigger the "box" was the higher class ship it was. Frig- smallest box, Cap- biggest box. When using the icons as the filter on your overview it would put either the biggest box or smallest box at the top of your overview list, making it easier for an individual in small gang fleets to recognize what might be the enemies "tackle" (frig - small boxes) and what might be there "primary DPS" (battle ships - big boxes). With the new icons, we have lost the ability to do this because they don't fallow the same filter. I know it's not the same as having a properly working overview, but I have had some success with widening my overview some more and adding in the "size" column. It's not perfect by any means, but it may help you recover some of the previous functionality until it gets fixed/reverted.
I'm mostly playing with the brackets off now too and having to spend more time looking at my overview and less time looking at the space scene, which I'm fairly sure is the opposite direction to the one we are supposed to be heading in. I thought hiding brackets was going to be a thing of the past when I upgraded my PC earlier this year, but unfortunately not. |
Kaldi Tsukaya
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
90
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:36:39 -
[919] - Quote
Since this seems like the Icons thread...
Like: Ship icons POS batteries Frozen Corpse
Meh (could live with): POS modules Celestials
Dislike: Wrecks are horrid Drones wtf? Everything else.
If it is all-or-nothing, I choose the old icons.
-1 for too much change all at once. Undocking = fatigue. |
Vila eNorvic
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 04:38:55 -
[920] - Quote
Qicia wrote:http://images.contentful.com/kvd74o0q2fjg/2uSgE3niC8SII8wmGUkSgM/8984203842d475c24c86e0cb2419698c/NewOverviewBrackets_Legend.png
Here is the complete new icon list. Thanks, but all I see there is a little black square with a white cross in it. (Same as the two links posted previously.) |
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Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:04:41 -
[921] - Quote
call to arms destroy jita for the return of classic icons major uprising only seem to get attention and response in this game |
Taramada
Lom Corporation SpaceMonkey's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:43:46 -
[922] - Quote
So, here is a refreshing question:
When playing dress up my dolly, I noticed that the Women 's 'Hover' Tights are only UNDER garments. Interesting as they would serve as pants/tights to go under a dress. Adding shoes .... well looks like a woman in a dress with different colored tights/legs. Why can't I do that? Why are they regulated to be under pants. Example Rocket Dress plus Hover Tights and shoes...done, but it is not so.
Icon ISSUE: Well, honestly the old system was just fine, it is not that I dislike learning new things, I just dislike having to learn lame new things. Please give us an option like the map to go back to the old vies.
Thanks |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:44:05 -
[923] - Quote
Lara Divinity wrote:call to arms destroy jita for the return of classic icons major uprising only seem to get attention and response in this game
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Waegen Hoerford
High Gate Cynn
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 05:55:46 -
[924] - Quote
I like the new icons, will take a bit of getting use to, but I think it's easier to discern ship classes than the old crosses (esp frigs and dessies), |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
284
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 06:00:29 -
[925] - Quote
logged in, undocked, still saw those ****** monopoly icons ins space, logged out |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 06:06:11 -
[926] - Quote
Real Feedback:
The new icons make it harder, not easier, to figure out whether to take a fight or not. It was easier to gauge a fight based on the size of the old icons. Sure, you'd have to clarify by glancing at the name of your target to figure out how to fight it etc.
But... the simplicity of the old system can't be overlooked. Having a limited range of symbols, representing a relative size and toughness, was useful. Variety might not always be better?
I think some of it might still be an adjustment of mental/visual cues and such - but I do think the classic system would be better long run. I think people will simply adapt and read names in their overview tabs first, largely overlooking the over-thought icons.
Run with it, and please - consider going back to a "relative size" system. The variety is in the available ship types/setups, not in the way they're represented on an overview column.
Koba |
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Citizens
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 06:10:38 -
[927] - Quote
General feed back from rus com.
Original topic from http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=113538&page=7#entry3072769
Phew, I spent half a day, but still wrote his thoughts.
Strange that I'm trying to explain to people the truths that are professional, kind of like, engaged in the development of computer games. Although it was not written for them, they are unlikely to read and take note ...
Let's start from the beginning - from the existence of the word "visualization". Izdrevna man tried to visualize the mess, which was packed with his head. He drew maps and wrote lists and sketching diagrams, sketches and drawings, charts and graphs. All this is just to visualize and depict what is available, what he logically arrived. And characteristically, he guessed not draw stopyatsot conventional icons, he expanded the significance of each icon and came to refer to it is not exactly a particular action, but only to point to belong to a certain group of sense. The man at the dawn of its existence gradually passed from hieroglyphics to alphabetic characters. And the alphabet, offers several great level of abstraction produces a much larger amount of information. However, the text is not a panacea. Probably because 90% of the information people receive through vision and images. And the vision is the fastest and most flexible provider of information about the world.
The same conclusion was reached by our contemporaries. All the breakthroughs in the field of the computer connected with the presentation of information in a user-friendly way - as schematically indicated some action. So there were the "roll", "expand" and "close" to the windows and Makos, icons for iphone and tablets, website and dashboards. And then there was the concept of "UI modernization" of the CCP. Frankly, I do not know who owns the idea of GÇïGÇï"innovation", and do not want to know, but for the future of eve-online and CCP would be very desirable to throw them into the cold, and quickly, even if they work for polzarplaty. Man wants to see as much information conveniently and individually assembled and located in a certain place of the workspace. And do not want every time to start to establish your "desktop" from scratch, restoring communication and head anew peretryahivaya familiar piece. But this is what was done. You are forced to force users to give up the idea of GÇïGÇï"generalized signs" in favor of some sort of idiotic concept that long ago buried all able to look at things sensibly. It runs counter to all the concepts of progressive user interface, pretending that everything is simple zashib - top short-sightedness. And this folly will destroy you in the end.
Strictly speaking, the short-sightedness at the CCP has deeper roots. It is expressed in the boundless greed and excessive pride. After all, most recently by the standards of the game world was Incarna. Everything has been forgotten? And it was the greed and arrogance, have given rise Incarna and the events that followed. "Greed - it's good?" No, stingy always pays twice. You once paid twice (or even three) for Incarna. Now ponabirali ad for "cheap game designers" and "specialists to work with the community"? But the employees' competence has never been and will not be cheap. And this is your "UI modernization" - a clear result of savings of qualified personnel.
But pride ... pride will not allow you to admit that you spend time on this crap you throw in the trash. Already we are thrown. It is a fait accompli. You'll cling to it (this crap) until recently. If you remember, just as was the case with "new icons tools developed by our leading designers" who were more like dried-up ****. And if not then-outcry Incarna, they would have "decorated" interface so far. Only a paroxysm of self-flagellation Hilmar totally insincere, by the way, was able to pull them down the toilet, and came back ... the old interface icons. And this brings us to the climax of pride - to work with the community. I will not speak for the English-speaking, everything is a bit different, but work with community-ru - a poster "Do not do that ever!" Billboards, like pride destroys all the fruit on the vine, which can give the tree of mutual interest. But even Mohammed realized that the mountain will not come to him ever, and he'll have to shove the mountain. But who is Mohammed, if the old Russian tradition of "I - Head, you - fool". Here sits the proud chief of Communication on its offorume, talking to himself. There is no one else but him, a couple of newbies, but the losers who do not prizhidis on ivrukome because of their narrow-mindedness. But if he is really interested to see, hear and draw conclusions, he would not wait until the community itself will come to him. No, the community will not come to him, he does not need a community, the community looks at it as a ****. And he will not come here. Pride will not. And the opinion of the community about the "new interface" is not heard and the conclusions will not. And then ... and then everything will be even worse. And it gets worse, while again not break the abscess does not stand on its hind legs users not unsubscribe, and the corn zalagayut remaining, shooting monument. |
MarkedOne What'sFamily
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 06:13:08 -
[928] - Quote
Icons need a bit of improvement. BUT some of them are pretty good. Ive noticed that when reloading guns and locking onto or firing guns onto a target; There is a 2-3sec delay before it proceeds to lockon; reload or fire. So far no crashes or BSOD's but sounds like i got lucky.
thnks |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
70
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 06:38:33 -
[929] - Quote
Guys it was a joke with google trabslate. I could not imagine that somebody post this. But if you undetstand this... Well... :) |
Meque
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 07:04:26 -
[930] - Quote
For some reason the launcher is now using 80-90% on one of my cpu cores, and it makes my cpu fan go nuts. Why does the launcher need 3.2 Ghz?
Congratulations on breaking the launcher even more CCP. |
|
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2459
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 07:07:11 -
[931] - Quote
Just ran a fleet with plenty of entosis action, would definitely welcome a way to see a numerical timer for each service circle. It was a bit difficult to match our final cycles with the proper times. Lots of geusswork used. |
AngelFood
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 07:13:45 -
[932] - Quote
The new icons look like they were designed on a commodore 64 or a zx spectrum. The ideal of the new icons is flawed also: The ship icons would probably work except for the light shading being the only distinguishing difference from npc to players is not enough. Players icons should be much more unique, as unique as they used to be in fact, which was subtle but totally unique. I mean, there is no other game ever I remember where I couldn't tell the difference between an npc and a player it's ridiculous and critical in a pvp game.
|
Aeon Veritas
Lobach Inc. Easily Offended
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 07:26:00 -
[933] - Quote
Yesterday I did again a little PVE and I am still the opinion that the idea of new icons is nice, but there is room for improvement.
Aeon Veritas wrote:Yesterday I did a Little PVE and I have to say those new icons are not as self explaining as the old ones.... I confused on an regular basis BC with BS because the icons for BC look bigger. +1 for this solution! The hierarchy shown in above picture is ihmo far better to understand intuitively than the actual.
CCP Surge wrote:#423Porucznik Borewicz wrote:TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better. Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships. We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags. Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? While I personaly think there is no need to change the color of the icons, you maybe should consider to complete fill the inner of the icons for NPC. NPC = solid red icons would be nice. That way they have the same size information as player icons and are easy to distinguish from them.
Another thing people already mentioned is "less is more". I think this hits especially for the structures. Maybe you should consider only one Icon for structures and differentiate them with letters for their size (S-M-L-XL). Sov-related structures should be excluded from that, i think they are fine now. With so may different icons for the structrues ist like you implemented for every ship a own Icon. it's plain not necessary. For the ships now we can see "Oh, look. it's a frig. Let's take a closer look which one it is". but like every structure got tis own icon? And please think for the future, soo many sutructures you want to add to the game...
CCP Surge wrote:#411 I urge patience. There are dozens of new icons to learn, and it might take the brain a while to untangle the new "messy blob" at first. Post back in a few days and share if they've changed your game for better or worse after you've gotten a little more comfortable identifying them. We'll be keeping an eye on this post initial-reaction feedback closely. At least: please, please, pretty please don't confuse "get used to" with "like it". It's like you can get used to high gas prices, but you still don't like it... |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 07:44:19 -
[934] - Quote
Now how the ship is not in center ? Very annoying. |
DHuncan
Minerva Group
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 07:52:06 -
[935] - Quote
DHuncan wrote:Now how the ship is not in center ? Very annoying.
Oh, ok, you only have to dock, take another ship and undock. It magically fix . |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1710
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 08:04:59 -
[936] - Quote
Just a point to bear in mind CCP. The Icons are the first thing one sees when one enters space, the first thing one needs when encountering an enemy, the first thing one turns to when identifying a threat, and the last thing one needs to lead to signing off with a headache due to overload/eyestrain.
Last night, I cut my playtime short by two hours as I literally could not take any more, and went and did something else. It is not going to get better, I am not willing to accept getting familar with the headaches.
If you genuinely are willing to sacrifice players to the altar of "cutting edge 8 bit design" we have no future together.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Citizens
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 08:37:36 -
[937] - Quote
Captain Semper wrote:Guys it was a joke with google trabslate. I could not imagine that somebody post this. But if you undetstand this... Well... :)
It's not my text, I just repost it. |
Teacher Oumis
Hedion University Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:01:03 -
[938] - Quote
Having read a few more comments, I definitely agree that part of the overview problem is the merging of all icons into one overarching design.
Before, when running ded sites in low sec etc, I could tell immediately if another ship had landed on grid with me. Now it's just another microscopic complex icon in a sea of other complex icons. Even if I wasn't looking directly at the overview itself, it's crystal clear when a great big square lands on grid.
Please consider allowing us to customize our overviews for those that want to roll back to the previous setup.
The overview, for me personally is the most important, most used, intrinsic part of Eve.
I shed a tear when the old blue pulsing sensor booster sfx vanished. But this overview change is another level, it's a literal headache. |
Lahnius
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:10:30 -
[939] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:i remember when eve felt like this: WooT!well now its increasingly feeling like this: ZZzzzZzz
so i logged into eve this morning (PST) as i usually do at this time before heading to work in a few hours. i sipped my coffee thinking, "ok so the icons are obviously here to stay, lets see if i can just make the best of it" ...
well, i undocked and paused for a moment as i looked at the overview ... i wasnt angry, i was dissapointed. eve has always been a very cool game to play ...but i am so sorry CCP, someone really f**ked up on this one.
i actually tried today to just, as CCP Claymore said:
CCP Claymore wrote:All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again.
... but damnit, this isnt getting any better for me. what once was a cool game for me is slowly becoming a drab, greyed out, ugly, and cumbersome nightmare that someone else has effected all over everyone, and it really stinks!
The old icons are still being used in the BeTA Starmap, and frankly when i use that map its a breath of fresh air, and this is not because i dont like change or because im used to the old stuff (or whatever reason someone wants to try and shove down my throat for complaining), its because the old icons are good. the old icons are simple and convey the information i need quickly without confusion or eyesore or delay trying to figure out (not what the damn icon is) why in the world someone would do such a sloppy and horrible job and then slap a happy face sticker on it calling it "a better way".
seriously, i remember playing atari space invaders back in 1979 and i have to be honest here, these icons remind me of that time. damnit CCP these icons are just f**kin' crap d00d; cant you see that? are you just flat not listening? THE ICONS ARE GARBAGE! you screwed up, now step back, suck it up, swallow the pride and give back what OBVIOUSLY most of the paying customers prefer.
these "new" icons are just stupid and cause eyestrain, brainstrain, delays in reaction time, anger, frustration ... i actually feel dumber for using them since they look so cheap like my grandson made them at the fingerpaint table.
OFFER THE OPTION TO SWITCH BETWEEN OLD AND NEW ICONS! If you believe this is going to cause confusion amongst players, then those confused players can seek help in the help channels.
seriously here CCP, isnt there just ONE PERSON in your company that says "um, fellas, this looks like sh*t"? i just cannot believe that the entirety of CCP says "YAY SUCCESS AND THE NEW ICONS LOOK AMAZING! CHEERS" ... come on now, this just cannot be happening ... lol ...
space invaders 1979: reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ftVrgJTl4w |
Quonne
Bad Vibe
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:25:06 -
[940] - Quote
Icons have made the game almost non playable to self navigate ...PLEASE give us the option to turn icons off . or just get rid of them... |
|
Pestily
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:29:52 -
[941] - Quote
Quonne wrote:Icons have made the game almost non playable to self navigate ...PLEASE give us the option to turn icons off . or just get rid of them...
Get rid they have made a good game rubbish to play |
Lahnius
24
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:31:13 -
[942] - Quote
look, CCP, if you want feedback or ideas well heres an idea for the new icons:
offer the options in overview settings to use the ROOKIE ICONS or the PRO ICONS.
rookie icons are good for hisec mission runners and belt rat hunts, but you might want to use the pro icons for large scale pvp, low and null sec fun. have aura explain the difference to new players.
i have always done alot of scanning in my cheetah. i used to have a 1bil bounty for stealing from mission runners so much. timing is crucial for that job. if i delay even for a second, im gone ... poof ... destroyed! the new icons cause this delay and im not about to not only lose my sneaky cheetah but damnit losing my billion isk pod because some dev team with an attitude thinks they have a better idea for me is unnacceptable.
i can only imagine how titan players feel right now! i am so sorry guys!
PRO ICONS! The old icons!
ROOKIE ICONS! The new icons!
see? this would be win/win ... CCP saves face and keeps their new idea, and veteran players are happy because they retain the efficient method of playing that has WORKED for years. |
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Citizens
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:42:52 -
[943] - Quote
Why CCP shifted from customized to any color interface to static interface list? CCP shifted from color surround Neocomian to flat monochrome. Why!!! Why!!! Iam play 5 years, not met person with daltonism! CCP how much pay interface designer? I can be better for 400$ |
PANZER1233000
SUPREME LEAGUE KILLER Dream Citizens
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:51:30 -
[944] - Quote
Hmm maybe attack jita monument again? Donate shop and gold ammo be next :D
|
Elisk Skyforge
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 09:59:02 -
[945] - Quote
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/reddit/cerberus.jpg
^So what happened to Cerberus new hull?! |
Steijn
Quay Industries
742
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:03:32 -
[946] - Quote
Day #3 - Well ive given it another try and its still horrible, still doesnt do what its supposed to do, and wont be tried again.
IMO this isnt the first time CCP have fcked up, but on other occasions its been something that hasnt affected my day to day gaming.so much. This is different, 90% of the time im doing something that is in someway connected to these new icons and it has now become a chore. More time spent trying to decipher what exactly is on screen, and less time actually playing the game.
As far as im concerned, Eve died on Tuesday and unless these either get changed back, or at the very least let the paying customer decide which set to use, then i'll just let my subs lapse later this month. |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
361
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:17:37 -
[947] - Quote
Third day. I am a professional prey in EVE. I roam solo in dangerous areas (low, null, WS) with a PvE fit and explorations modules. Just like the antelope in the savanna, if i am caught i am mostly dead. I have sharpenned my reflexes during years of practise to warp away immediatly if anything lands on grid. Now with the new icons, i am not able anymore to react fast enough. It has nothing to do with "getting used to", it is simply that your new icons are not well thought, that you have not at all listened to all the players who told you that they were not working, and that you are too proud and disdainful toward your paying customers to admit it (you have proven this behavior many many times already in the history of EVE). I don't think that i will stay in EVE if you don't give us back the old icons. There are other interesting online space games nowadays, i think it will be time for me to move on. Your own fault CCP.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Chrisfighter
Gladdebacher's
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:18:59 -
[948] - Quote
Maybe it is just me, but it seems to be the change for an escalation has been reduced quite significantly.
Nur die harten kommen innen Garten, eh .... Eve xD
|
Don Purple
Almost Human.
1249
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:26:53 -
[949] - Quote
I must say, the Icons are well.. awful. I mean their actual design. I see houses and little pacman ghosts all over my screen. They don't seem to have an correlation to the things they represent besides maybe a few. I do like the asteroid belt icon :P
I am just here to snuggle and do spy stuff.
|
Jack Mancetti
Rennfeuer V.e.G.A.
53
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:36:57 -
[950] - Quote
Remove this new icon crap , my eyes hurt after 1h Playtime and i lost the fun to fly around. I'm survived many from your crap CCP what u had released last times but this new icons . . . no way to play with it |
|
Jenni Concarnadine
SYNDIC Unlimited
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:39:39 -
[951] - Quote
Sorry () but not great fan of new icons -- do not see how they are an *improvement*.
Old ones worked well as far as I
TL:DR |
Kaeda Maxwell
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
346
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:48:20 -
[952] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote: I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :)
Why is screen space so valuable, well, especially in PvP with smaller numbers manually piloting the ship is vastly superior to using keep at range or orbit. Partly because both those options are horribly slow to respond to changes and partly because manual flying gives you far better control over stuff like transversal and the ability to respond to changes in transversal/speed of your opponent much faster by anticipating why that change is happening.
One of the inherent handicaps about manual piloting though is that it needs a lot of swapping between how much you're zoomed in it's very hard to accurately place the double clicks required for precise manual piloting when you're zoomed out very far, but at the same time you need to regularly switch to zooming out quite far to be able to keep track of where things are on the grid in relation to you. Because the only other method of keeping track of things around you when zoomed in (which will frequently occur because of what I outlined above) is the overview and to some extend currently locked targets and the dscanner read out most manual piloting PvP'ers have above average sized Overviews and Dscanners. Even with 90% scaling my overview + dscanner take up about at least quarter of my available screen space. And then my locked targets and the 'capwheel' take up space too ofc, add a fleet chat window, maybe a drone window and relevant fleet screens and suddenly half your screen is covered in windows. And this competes with my need to be able to see the brackets of things around me in space and my need to be able to frequently zoom in to pilot. When I'm zoomed out far enough that I can see what's around me I can't pilot properly and when I'm zoomed in far enough that I can pilot properly I can't see enough of what is going on around me on the grids. Leading to a desire to make everything as small as I can possibly make it, making 90% UI scaling very attractive over 100%.
If you have anymore questions I'd be happy to clarify further :) |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:51:52 -
[953] - Quote
I would like to conduct a test and using this quote as reference for everyone suffering from the same problem:
Tao Dolcino wrote:I roam solo in dangerous areas (low, null, WS) with a PvE fit and explorations modules. Now with the new icons, i am not able anymore to react fast enough. Everyone in a hostile NPC environment means their overview is filled with red icons. A player ship is a white icon. So my genuine question is to anyone having this problem: Who of you is colour blind, and who is not? For those who are not color blind, why is the difference between red and white not enough? For those who are color blind: please speak up, because those are one of the reasons that WILL make a company change their minds. It is one thing to lose players who are just grumpy. It is another to lose players because they are unable to play the game anymore based on medical conditions.
Taramada wrote:When playing dress up my dolly, I noticed that the Women 's 'Hover' Tights are only UNDER garments. Interesting as they would serve as pants/tights to go under a dress. Adding shoes .... well looks like a woman in a dress with different colored tights/legs. Why can't I do that? Why are they regulated to be under pants. Example Rocket Dress plus Hover Tights and shoes...done, but it is not so. The reason you can be without pants with the sanctity dress is, because the sanctity dress covers all your bottoms. The rocket dress shows your slip, which apparently is not okay, while showing space-bra with outerwear jacket only apparently was deemed not a problem. So that means the rocket dress misses the "scripted" addition of "I can work without pants" like the sanctity dress does. If this was an oversight, or intended because of... well... showing underwear? I don't know. |
Josef Djugashvilis
2962
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:52:37 -
[954] - Quote
For the love of all things holy, stop messing around with drones.
Jeez...
This is not a signature.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:55:23 -
[955] - Quote
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :) Question:
Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ? |
Workout
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 10:58:19 -
[956] - Quote
Hate the new icons. |
Lubont
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:00:27 -
[957] - Quote
Yesterday i let a destroyer run away from a large compound because i was thinking that is a wreck ! WTF you did with those icons? disgusting icons. The icons can be nice for people that usually stay in station, docked, trading, manufacturing, but PVP or PVE players will never get used to this Shi.. of icon . Yesterday all mi corp mates decided to end the roam, because of that icons, it wasnt playable at all, it was a mess, big big mess. I still dont understand why change something that was working good? you sad in one post "because they were never changed", what a stupid conclusion. I think is time to employ a shrink at CCP, obviously some of your employers need it. |
Marok
Pandemic Lizards. Diplomatic Immunity.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:00:43 -
[958] - Quote
The jackdaw just cant stand up to anything close the the current t3 destroyers .
The svipul has 66% reduction in mwd sig radius + 33% resists in Both armour and shields. Jackdaw has a 33% reduction in overall sig and +33% shield resists
the svipul can hit almost 4k in speed mode Jackdaw can go 2k
Sviple can hit out to 40k+ with arty and do 300+ dps while doing 3k+ without links Jackdaw can hit out to 70k 200+ dps but max speed is reduced to 1.5k without links
Where does this add up? yea missiles are great and there had to be a speed nerf to the jackdaw so it not the ultimate kiting ship but its tank dps and speed are extremely low even for a destroyer.
I mean there could be a 33% increase to shield boost amount with the defense mode instead of the 33% armour bonus to the svipul.
And the icons... I prefer the old ones below.
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65332/1/Ship_Group_Icons.png
These are GREAT! varied widths and different enough so at a glance you can tell the ship type and size. |
Kaeda Maxwell
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
347
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:05:42 -
[959] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :) Question: Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ?
Yes.
I'd also like to be able to colour code it and colour code the dscanner read out :) It would also help immensely if the chat windows could be border-less (so that only the actual text in would take up space) and some other other solution to displaying who's in them could be found. |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
502
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:12:30 -
[960] - Quote
Vila eNorvic wrote:Lahnius wrote:Steijn wrote:Taru Audeles wrote:btw this link STILL does not work. Any chance that someone fixes this so we get an idea what you actually put online here? link works fine. but it seems to be short a few icons ... apparently this is the full list: OMFG And that one doesn't work either. All I get is - {"sys": {"type": "Error", "id": "ParameterNotAllowed", "details": {"parameters": ["amp"]}}}
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
|
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:14:41 -
[961] - Quote
Red Deck wrote:CCP Surge wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:
Thanks for responding!
I'm also getting the feeling that it's not just at 90% that it's a problem, and even after some time, the testing folks still were not happy. We were actually given the same response during Incarna, concerning the unusable/unreadable UI icons then.
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? Wow. Just wow. So CCP knew their UI scaler was unable to scale pixel-sharp objects properly and yet considered it a good idea to push the new icons through? CCP, have a long hard look at the old icons - the reason why nobody complained about how they looked, scaled or not, was that whoever designed them actually considered what your scaler could and couldn't do (I can't believe they would have been so cleverly designed just by coincidence). The shapes were chosen (and implemented) so that they would scale acceptably even with a crappy scaler. THIS ALONE IS A REASON GOOD ENOUGH TO REVERT BACK TO THE OLD ICONS - at least until you can improve the UI scaler so that it scales sharp pixel-sized objects properly.
|
powerofflre night
Froosh INC. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:16:14 -
[962] - Quote
Icons are a bit tacky and confusing... on a 32in monitor things are a bit smeared. Rats look as if they have a rank symbol, if that's what the intent was; they should be in order, as in real life. Meaning more stripes for bigger the enemy. The icon change collaborates the old territorial beacon with other capsuleers ships now... very confusing for older pilots in battle. Other than that... pshh. |
Lahnius
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:16:34 -
[963] - Quote
something to consider ...
the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".
the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.
the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.
multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.
introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.
proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.
multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.
this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.
yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.
what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will. |
Rumour Wayez
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:17:39 -
[964] - Quote
Workout wrote:Hate the new icons.
The word hate is just not enough to express my feelings towards these new icons what next emoticons for friendly neut and enemy statuses as mentioned in many post before this one ...
Dear CCP PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP FIXING WHAT IS NOT BROKE!! or in this case STOP BREAKING WHAT IS ALL READY FIXED >.< |
powerofflre night
Froosh INC. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:21:16 -
[965] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:something to consider ...
the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".
the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.
the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.
multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.
introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.
proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.
multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.
this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.
yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.
what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.
Exactly, specific and to the point! |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:21:25 -
[966] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:24h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait.
46h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, hmm maybe do a big cleaning of my appartment while i wait.
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Komercijala
Aura Solutions
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:30:09 -
[967] - Quote
icons are bad very very bad i cant recognize ships and structures |
Ninja Jiggalo
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:31:31 -
[968] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:something to consider ...
the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".
the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.
the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.
multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.
introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.
proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.
multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.
this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.
yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.
what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.
Well Said! I have just returned to the game after a 6 month break ok fozzy sov is going to take a while to get my head around but i can live with that but these new icons hurt my head the simple solid shapes of before were high contrast and easly reconisable the new ones being just an outline are much harder to make out especaly as they are now no longer high contrast i for one am very dissapointed with you CCP for once please listen to the people that actualy pay your wages and do the right thing even if it it only to give us the option of which icon set to use!! |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
109
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:34:00 -
[969] - Quote
Paging CCP Claymore.... |
Lauren Transporter
The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:36:28 -
[970] - Quote
Overview Icons Are so bad change them back please |
|
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:40:15 -
[971] - Quote
Hate new icons. Centry guns look awful with too big icons. Battleship icon too small and looking like a cruiser or BC. Attack drones icon also too big, and look like frigs. |
Nym Doe
Bear Bones Brigade The Bastards.
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:40:37 -
[972] - Quote
So,
Being playing pretty much solidly since icon-gate was released, determined to give it the best shot, the best benefit of the doubt possible.
Firstly, I'd like to thank the art department for conceptually trying to improve the game for all of our benefit.
In reality, however, it just hasn't worked - the icons dilute to such a degree the immediacy of the information the old icons provided to a point that makes the game that much worse to play.
Please revert.
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
810
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:55:19 -
[973] - Quote
Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote:Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :) Question: Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ? Yes. I'd also like to be able to colour code it and colour code the dscanner read out :) It would also help immensely if the chat windows could be border-less (so that only the actual text in would take up space) and some other other solution to displaying who's in them could be found. All that and pretty much any other configuration options for the UI would be great. It would also be good if we can save, swap and share those configurations.
Give us the tools to improve our UI experience and optimise for our own playstyle and we will love you for it. Take away such tools after we have been happily using them for years (as was done in all of the recent UI botch jobs) and we will hate you for it.
Also, a more consistent approach to dealing with colour blindness would be great. I certainly support having a default UI setup and a suite of configuration options that is sympathetic to all such disabilities. But it is troubling to be first told that we cannot have colours where we would like them (and have had them for years) because of a disability that we do not personally suffer from and then a few months down the line see another botched UI overhaul which relies on the exact same colour differentiators we were told we could not have before. Configurability seems like the obvious answer to such issues, but configurability doesn't seem to be in vogue at CCP anymore. |
Mark Yanning
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:57:14 -
[974] - Quote
For God's sake new icons are something very terrible.
They are confusing, a frigate is like an old beacon, a destroyer like an empty wreck. The wreck icon (looted and not looted) is something just very ugly and not easy to understand at a first sight. The old system was working great giving all the information we needed. Now is a big mess. Especially for people involved in PvP.
I will not play until this stupid thing is fixed. Otherwise bye bye Eve
M |
Hati Moonhound
Adherents of Mastemah
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 11:57:57 -
[975] - Quote
Dat new icons... CCP u kidding me? |
powerofflre night
Froosh INC. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:01:12 -
[976] - Quote
Mark Yanning wrote:For God's sake new icons are something very terrible.
They are confusing, a frigate is like an old beacon, a destroyer like an empty wreck. The wreck icon (looted and not looted) is something just very ugly and not easy to understand at a first sight. The old system was working great giving all the information we needed. Now is a big mess. Especially for people involved in PvP.
I will not play until this stupid thing is fixed. Otherwise bye bye Eve
M
THIS IS RARE...BUT IM WITH HIM....HMM....not really moa... just for the ICON thingy,,, |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
373
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:05:39 -
[977] - Quote
I spent the last 4 hours to draft my own suggestion for ship and drone icons. Partially because I still have hope and partially to add to the discussion by giving ideas.
I left the old red icons for comparison only. In my opinion NPCs ships should have their own set of icons, less detailed and radically different (it should be easy to make some adjustments to the red crosses we had and use that for NPCs - we don't need that much detail for NPCs anyway).
I removed several icons on purpose, because I don't think they're needed. Less is more in that regard, imho.
Icons
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:11:21 -
[978] - Quote
Komercijala wrote:icons are bad very very bad i cant recognize ships and structures
Looks like you will have used to that crap what other choice do you have?? Oh wait there are 2:
1) CCP let you choose icons you want; 2) start play WOW |
Fossor Wintersky
Ordinus Ursorum Cautorum
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:11:21 -
[979] - Quote
Please, return old overview icons! |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:19:30 -
[980] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons. In the end we support "UI scaling" functionality to some extent, but don't have the proper tech in place to make the experience feel great at anything other than 100% at the moment. Maybe I was not clear enough with my previous statements about this, so let me try that again:
Developers know of their scaling limitations and openly admit it. Developers only talk about scaling on an engine level in present and future. Developers think the icons are good enough to be shipped. Contradicting, developers don't think it was worth to create 3 additional sets of icons to work against the scaling issue. Not a single word from CCP about three additional scaled sets.
So what does this translate to? 1) "We aren't quite sure with the icons yet, so we just use one set and see how it goes out, maybe we have to change some" 2) "We are convinced our icons are good but don't have the time to make different UI scales because [insert reason] " 3) "We cannot create 3 additional sets because the overview is legacy code and we would need to rewrite it from the ground up"
If we look at 1) and if you are really not quite sure, then what stopped you from requesting more specific feedback? And what stopped you from making the icons alternative, like the starmap? From what I could see, the moment you made the new starmap default, it caused awareness to a lot more players which started to respond. Special advice: add a popup window upon logging in that tells you of beta changes in the UI an where you can find those options to activate them. Another Special advice: add an ingame feedback tool. You would be surprised of the amounts of proper feedback coming in.
Now if it was 2) then I would be sorely disappointed. Scaling to 3 different sets does not take much time. It does not. It really does not. It takes less time to create those 3 sets than the time it took to figure out how an icon should look and tinkering around with it's creation. Every single UI artist and graphics designer knows this. It takes an afternoon, if even.
If it was 3) then wouldn't it have been a much smarter choice to start with the roots and then add the icons? If you would be rewriting the overview code, you could as well rethink the placement of target brackets and tags and allowing more tabs and allowing to have a second overview window in place and so on and so forth. Might even look something like that except less cheap. |
|
shmeade
Invictus Industries Legio Damnata
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:24:26 -
[981] - Quote
A lot of people I see are complaining of their client lagging out horribly. The old icons were better...wayyy better. and when are you guys going to de-contaminate that station door? |
DexterShark
The Night Watchmen The Bastion
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:36:06 -
[982] - Quote
Nym Doe wrote:So,
Being playing pretty much solidly since icon-gate was released, determined to give it the best shot, the best benefit of the doubt possible.
Firstly, I'd like to thank the art department for conceptually trying to improve the game for all of our benefit.
In reality, however, it just hasn't worked - the icons dilute to such a degree the immediacy of the information the old icons provided to a point that makes the game that much worse to play.
Please revert.
This is a good summary of my thoughts.
First impressions of the icons were not favourable personally, but I gave it a couple of days. Tried to make the best of it.
You asked us to give stories and explain our experiences, but ~everything~ in Eve is all the poorer for these icon changes. If I can't find a positive story to tell, that says something in itself.
Sorry CCP - it just hasn't worked.
You need to revert the icons and probably leave it as it was, move onto other priorities in the game.
Like the way you removed the Teams feature - call it a bust and move on.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
105
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:36:33 -
[983] - Quote
To attention of CCP Claymore again.
Claymore pls write something
Just to specify to be clear - The players DO NOT want you to make the new icons more shiny and beautiful. They want old overview icons.
I'm writing this in case you post something like "we will make the new one better" because this will be NOT a solution for us.
So I hope you will fix them till 2-3 days because I didn't play couple of days and I really want to play again |
Miss Blueprint
BIueprints
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:40:04 -
[984] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:[quote=Joia Crenca]
Thanks for responding!
I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
Looks better on a large TV screen. |
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:43:16 -
[985] - Quote
what you think about will make BS icon some bigger? Like here http://i.imgur.com/7I6u8ZO.png |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
271
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:43:36 -
[986] - Quote
i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
106
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:46:25 -
[987] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread.
Just keep posting. We will not give up. If is necessary I will find some phones and e-mail of the CCP Managment |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1715
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 12:48:55 -
[988] - Quote
Please guys, it is clear that there are lots of situations we use scaling, and lots of player experiences you had not thought of before rolling out the new icons. They really do not work as a "one size fits all" development., and whatever happens need more work before they can be the primary and sole icon set.
Please give us something we can work with until this happens, the classic icon set can fulfil that role, if available as an option. Thank you.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Fronn Penken
Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:01:37 -
[989] - Quote
I cannot believe that my gaming community is being so ridiculous about the new icons. They are a great idea and I personally think they look awesome. To provide more data about your surroundings at a glance to any player, regardless of time in the game, IS a good idea and I think you have accomplished that. I can't honestly believe that all the ridiculous posts in this thread represent the majority of our community. So from the other side of the coin, great job CCP the icons look great! |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:04:03 -
[990] - Quote
Two things I really need to get off my chest before I need to take a break from this topic:
Why is there so little asymmetrical design in the icons? Asymmetry effectively DOUBLES your icon real estate. It might even triple or quadruple it in certain cases, depending how you arrange variations. Asteroid and Ice BELTS could actually look like BELTS (centered, horizontal base in two variations) instead of this circular-ish blobblewobble in the middle again.
And I really don't understand all the space invader references. I mean... really. Deconstructive feedback yay or nay, but why there are only so many ways to use icons, and I really don't see that much of a similarity anyhow. and Space invaders is a classic!
Edit because yes:
Fronn Penken wrote:I cannot believe that my gaming community is being so ridiculous about the new icons. They are a great idea and I personally think they look awesome.
Please provide what kind of activities you are doing in the game, please tell us what UI scale you are using, and please tell us what color and tag customizations you're applying to the interface. Thank you. |
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
107
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:08:43 -
[991] - Quote
Fronn Penken wrote:I cannot believe that my gaming community is being so ridiculous about the new icons. They are a great idea and I personally think they look awesome. To provide more data about your surroundings at a glance to any player, regardless of time in the game, IS a good idea and I think you have accomplished that. I can't honestly believe that all the ridiculous posts in this thread represent the majority of our community. So from the other side of the coin, great job CCP the icons look great!
For you maybe they are ok but for the most of the ppl they are not ok. That's why we want to have a choice to switch them.
They provide what?! - All details I have it in my overview - name, type of ship, velocity etc etc...if I want to shoot only ceptors I set by type or switch to ceptor overview. We don't want to see in space some triangles, squares, circles etc etc... Yesterday I saw a triangle and start to think that is a wreck....ooo wait it was a destroyer...anyway I killed him, but everything is ugly and useless. If you want to use the new one - fine. but I don't want to use them |
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:12:12 -
[992] - Quote
Hi There is a new problem.
In old map once I switch in "map control panel" from solar system to star map, "map control panel" does not come back, so I can not switch back to solar system view. If you live in WH you know how terrible is that if you have to scan everyday new chain.
Now, why I do not use new map?? I use it quite often but only as star map, it is nice, but for scanning system I prefer old one, which doesn't lag, doesn't make a problems to catch and move group of probes etc.
If anyone know how to fix it, please halp. |
moep
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:13:45 -
[993] - Quote
Trajan Unknown wrote:moep wrote:The new overview icons? Well test your brain in a simulated pvp situation: You jump through gate, hostiles camping, quick decision needs to be taken, your heart is beating like a jungle drum, engage or not?
Let's get this one started with old icons:
Overview loads, 3...2....1.... Let's go! Old icons=> Quick decision to engage, lights on green!
Ok, same situation, new icons:
Overview loads, 3...2....1.... Let's go! New overview=> You get it? Military experts are calling this a cynosural.... ah wait.....information overflow! moep moep It might too late for me and I completely miss understood your point but for me the new Icons are exactly what I needed. The old ones weren-¦t exactly information overflow but to put it in military terms. A recruit on comms during an hostile assault. Better have a neckbeard next to him to slap the panic out of his head so he-¦s giving proper intel over comms instead of babbling nonsense. Old icons were nonsense, non useable for proper information and simply a hindrance. Sure, you got used to it but that doesn-¦t mean they were useful. If you call that information overflow have a seat into a fighter simulator and talk about information overflow again. EvE has by no means an information overflow. There is bad information flow so we could agree there is some kind of overflow but that-¦s not the icon stuff.
Hello Trajan,
it was late and you misunderstood me, so here some adds:
1. The reference to military experts is more of a sneaky joke, not a real-life reference , take a look:
Eve Quantum Rise
2. I played Red Baron and the information overflow was not really an issue. Maybe you can give me some more information on the fighter simulation point. I assume we are talking about gaming and not real-life combat situations:
Red Baron
3. Relax, the icons are a matter of taste and opinion, you like them, no problem with that. I am having a hard time getting used to them and they do not offer me any essential information which were missing and the icons are disturbing my need for optical harmony and simple information (a little bit).
4. I am not used to the new ones, valid point and agreed, but:
HEY, I just meet them (new icons) and they are CRAZY, so CCP gave me back the old ones and I will use em MAYBE!
Best regards and fly safe and one last advice: Do not jump on Mrs. Pacman, Mr. Pacman will not like this and will eat you up!
moep
|
Xeno Nex
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:14:34 -
[994] - Quote
Hate the new overview icons ... can't figure out relative sizes of the ships from these icons. Also, everything seems to be taking almost 1-2 minutes to load ... say if I dock at Amarr station, it takes all the textures and icons forever to load ... just keep getting that little spinning disk in lower left corner above timer. And I do have a fast connection.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
390
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:21:12 -
[995] - Quote
The sun icon is emblematic of the problems with the new scheme. Once upon a time the sun icon was a sold circle. It was unimaginative but it was easy to see at a glance. You could tell instantly that it was the sun because it was a sold circle. Well, some bright watt at ccp said hey the sun icon is not artistic so lets change it to an empty circle with rays so that it looks like a miniature sun. The problem is that the icons are so small that you cant see the rays at a casual glance. All the new sun looks like is a fuzzy empty circle, which is very similar to all of the other circle icons, making it almost impossible to differentiate the sun from the planets and other circle like objects. Artsy trumped simplicity and easy of use.
The same holds true for frigates and desys. The frigate is now an open lump or tiny squashed half circle. Its tiny by design because its a frig. The desy is the same open lump with a line under it and is also tiny by design. Because these are white little open lumps, they fade into the background and are almost impossible to see. Frequently, all I now see is the bottom line. So when i'm fighting small ships all I see is little dashes that are so small as to be impossible to click on. Never had a problem differentiating player ships from the background before this change and could always tell what was going on, now its all a meaningless hash - not because its new and unfamiliar but because the icons are so small as to be near impossible to differentiate from each other and worse because they blend into the background rendering them nigh invisible.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
107
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:21:18 -
[996] - Quote
Btw I watch yesterday Star Wars and Galactica again just to see if there are some triangles, rhombus or parallelepiped...but they don;t have on them! |
My Time
Bunyip Munitions
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:23:18 -
[997] - Quote
WOW the new icons omfg. I feel like i am shooting monoply pieces while looking at space invaders from 20yrs ago
WTF have you done ccp ??????????????????????????????? |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
810
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:24:40 -
[998] - Quote
Fronn Penken wrote:I cannot believe that my gaming community is being so ridiculous about the new icons. They are a great idea and I personally think they look awesome. To provide more data about your surroundings at a glance to any player, regardless of time in the game, IS a good idea and I think you have accomplished that. I can't honestly believe that all the ridiculous posts in this thread represent the majority of our community. So from the other side of the coin, great job CCP the icons look great! The chances are you aren't affected by the issues many of us are having.
If you don't use UI scaling, don't use overview sorting and don't rely on brackets for tactical information on the battlefield then your experience will certainly differ from mine. Also, if you are not an FC and have not been listening to the cries of dispair from FCs at these changes, your experience will differ from mine.
If you have good equipment and good eyesight your experience will certainly differ from many other players complaining here.
If you didn't use the optional overview columns to provide all the information that has now been "added" to the icons/brackets then you may see a benefit from these new icons. Because you were not using the tools that were previously available.
But for me, everything that these new icons add was already there in a far better form that I could configure, hide, show and rely upon. Now a column on the overview that was usefull is now useless, because it only duplicates information I already have a few millimeters to the right and does so in an ineffective way. It used to effectively show information that was not already available in an overview column in a usefull format and that has now been lost. I now have to add an extra column to my overview (size) just to compensate (poorly) for that lost information. I cannot differentiate the icons because they are unclear at 90% UI scaling and I cannot fit everything I need on the screen if I unscale my UI.
All this before you consider any aesthetics at all. |
Py Solette
Incident Command Southern Star Dominion
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:28:37 -
[999] - Quote
Currently this is what sorted icons look like: http://imgur.com/Odt0K4j Could we get them sorted by say, player type(npc/player), ship type(combat/hauler), size. It's really annoying having them sorted by most likely icon ID..... |
Satanama
Unforgiven Blood The Blood Covenant
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:29:27 -
[1000] - Quote
THE OVERVIEWS ARE HORRIBLE, AFTER PLAYING SO MANY YEARS WITH THE OLDER ICONS. THE NEW ONES LOOK LIKE ****, CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DIFFERENT THINGS IN SPACE AND A ACTUAL PLAYER LIKE YOU COULD EASILY BEFORE. LET US HAVE THE OPTION OF CHOOSING THE OLDER ICONS TO THE NEW ONES BECAUSE THEY JUST SUCK ASS!!!!! |
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:45:04 -
[1001] - Quote
This is ccp's way of saying **** off we don't need you.... we are gonna do what we want... Most company's listen to their customers even in ccp's comments they basically say that.. we don't care what you think we like it.... then we get to the problems with log in they have created.... but it was successfully shoved down our throats GARBAGE |
Inovy Dacella
Raptor Navy Whatever.
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:49:24 -
[1002] - Quote
I think the new icons are good. The celestial objects are more descriptive (wormholes, asteroids, sun etc.). The ship icons give a lot of info which does get overwhelming in fleet fights. I guess the vets will get used to it sooner or latter, but newbies have already so much to learn it could make it harder for them. Perhaps an optional simplified version of the new icons with less variety would help.
It's a tough call. |
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:56:43 -
[1003] - Quote
I think BS and capitals icons must be bigger. But frigsize icons must be smaller. Like here http://i.imgur.com/K3rn8wj.png |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1717
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 13:59:29 -
[1004] - Quote
Dear God, don't make the frigates any more illegible!
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
113
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:03:57 -
[1005] - Quote
All I need the icon to tell me is that it's a playership. Anything else is unnecessary. If I want to know what type of player ship it is i'll look at the type column on my overview.
NPCs need different icons dependent on size but I don't see what was wrong with the old ones vov. |
Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:06:52 -
[1006] - Quote
Is it considered illegal client modification if you try to bring back old features back to your client? (Like the icons?) |
Vivien Meally
Des-Meisters-Lakaien Brothers of Tangra
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:11:12 -
[1007] - Quote
Henry Plantgenet wrote:Is it considered illegal client modification if you try to bring back old features back to your client? (Like the icons?)
Is it possible? How? I hate new icons ... |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:14:42 -
[1008] - Quote
Doing my Eve Dailies.
Check on General Feedback for a time that 'classic icon' option comes up, find ZERO response from a Dev in numerous pages. Login and see what the icons look like, yup the 'moar bling!' set is still active. Dock, check Esc Menu in General Settings and Display and Graphics for that choice box to X, nope not there. Logout and post, as a reminder that We're Still Waiting for both that choice option to show up And a more current response for the growing outrage towards both the icons of poopy and silence from CCP.
Three accounts already to two, in about 2-4 days it'll be a single active account, as beginning of the month is add more account time. I flat out refuse to pay for extra accounts on a game I can't play from lack of an opt out choice. CCP, you're about to lose one of those R00kies that's held on over that one year mark. Finding this extremely disheartening to say the least.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Pestily
Black Omega Security Goonswarm Federation
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:16:59 -
[1009] - Quote
The icons really are ridiculous and childish looking. Last night in a fleet of 40 ish we all dropped drones and it was like a snow storm, we couldn't see anything on grid so brackets off and still couldn't .
GIVE US THE OPTION OF TAKING THE ICONS OFF OR REVERTING BACK TO THE OLD PRO ONES PLEASE.
GET MY POINT ??
If it took you more than a server tick to read it .. your dead .. |
|
CCP Surge
C C P C C P Alliance
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:21:15 -
[1010] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread.
That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks |
|
|
teloded
Exiled Tech Space Monkey Protectorate
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:21:44 -
[1011] - Quote
I would have to say that fozzy sov will most likely be game breaking for smaller corps and alliances. Large groups can now harrass smaller groups they would normally not target. Bring a bs or cruiser fleet start shutting down services, any hostile response can be crushed easily. once every thing is turned off go to the next system. the targeted corp will undock to turn back on their services only to have them turned back off in a hour. production goes down, income goes down. people more likely to move back to high sec where they dont have to worry about any of this. Only been under fozzy sov test for 2 days and people are all ready leaving null sec. Good job ccp
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:24:19 -
[1012] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Btw I watch yesterday Star Wars and Galactica again just to see if there are some triangles, rhombus or parallelepiped on the ships...but they don;t have on them! And this is where you go too far. Because you also do not see open brackets on ships either. This is a level of useless criticism that only spams the topic to no avail, and is part of the deconstructive feedback which is not worth a dime and a nickel.
You are cramping the overview full of things while only taking ship icons into consideration and leaving out everything else. You also do not take the spacing for target brackets into account. There is a reason why there is spacing between the biggest icon and the frame.
For example, if you would lock this Obelisk, you would not be able to see if you actually have a target lock on it or not, because the two white triangles indicating target lock on the side of the icon would be almost completely swallowed.
If you want to make mockups, then take EVERYTHING into consideration. That is why it is more difficult than people think. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:26:15 -
[1013] - Quote
guess they are not getting the picture.... I canceled my real cash accts yesterday maybe they need to here it from you if your gonna leave or thinking about it.....I know of ppl sending in tickets saying same canceling..mainly because of normal ccp ways of just not answering or LISTENING |
Mark Yanning
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:29:02 -
[1014] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Sure. Hopefully you are reading all the comments. We don't expect any knee-jerk reactions by devs, but you don't expect by us playing anymore this game with these icons. I'll keep it constructive: give us an option to be back and admit that new icons are extremly horrible and useless... . Nah, you will never admit that.
See you in game (maybe), when you have fixed that thing. I don't wanna shoot small beacons or little houses..
Have a nice day
p.s. I'm loosing my faith in Eve |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
116
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:30:35 -
[1015] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Is that code for do nothing and hope this all blows over?
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:32:12 -
[1016] - Quote
teloded wrote:I would have to say that fozzy sov will most likely be game breaking for smaller corps and alliances. Large groups can now harrass smaller groups they would normally not target. Bring a bs or cruiser fleet start shutting down services, any hostile response can be crushed easily. once every thing is turned off go to the next system. the targeted corp will undock to turn back on their services only to have them turned back off in a hour. production goes down, income goes down. people more likely to move back to high sec where they dont have to worry about any of this. Only been under fozzy sov test for 2 days and people are all ready leaving null sec. Good job ccp
Do you really think they care |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3434
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:34:22 -
[1017] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks I say it is time for a poll.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Misaca Mikoto
THE AESIR. Black Legion.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:37:45 -
[1018] - Quote
Why can't we just have to the option to choose the old Icons or the new ones in the settings. I see a benefit for pve content, but for pvp I dislike it. |
Jackie Esticato
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:42:49 -
[1019] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
I really want to give constructive feedback, and not just be one of the 'waah I'm leaving' brigade.
With that in mind, can we get a couple of answers from CCP as to the nature of this change, namely:
1) What do you see as the purpose of the icon's? 2) What was the intended objective of this change?
Give us the answers to those, and we can give you genuine, constructive feedback.
Thanks |
Zurtan Bayle
Evolution Paradox
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:47:55 -
[1020] - Quote
Misaca Mikoto wrote:Why can't we just have to the option to choose the old Icons or the new ones in the settings. I see a benefit for pve content, but for pvp I dislike it.
This. Thoses new icons are absolutely horrible, less understandable and giving a messy feeling all around. NPC having the same icons as players is a non sens, no logic between the different size of ships, wrecks are horrible, drones, pod.... Please give us the old and perfectly understandable icons! |
|
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:55:13 -
[1021] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:dunno why ppl complain about the UI/Neocom colours, theres a option to choose between different themes. Or do i get it wrong? This is actually about the color and type of new icons on the overview where you see your targets/enemies. They changed from the crosses and other small icons to the new triangles and such. The biggest thing I can see as a problem is not quickly seeing the difference between an NPC and a Player, or not as quickly as before. The other thing is that they can be blurry for a number of people. That's what was meant with icon colors. It looks like people that enjoy PVP most are having the hardest time with this, and even though I don't PVP much, I can easily see the frustration caused by this change.
Now i understand, thxxx |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3434
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:55:26 -
[1022] - Quote
Misaca Mikoto wrote:Why can't we just have to the option to choose the old Icons or the new ones in the settings. I see a benefit for pve content, but for pvp I dislike it. Then they would have to do regression testing with both settings each and every update. That's more money maintaining stuff that could be spent on new stuff.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
746
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:58:05 -
[1023] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Constructive?
Give me the option to chose wether i want to use the old icons, or the new icons.
PS. I dont expect a knee jerk reaction, but I wouldnt leave it to long if i were you because the damage is already been done. Ive been here 6 years but will gladly delete Eve from my PC if this isnt rectified soon. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1720
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:59:14 -
[1024] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
It is good news to hear you are still keeping an eye on this. whilst you are absolutely right, not to make actions made in haste, We are all aware that significant work will go into any change to address our concerns, and to make something that improves the overall gaming experience.
In The meantime however, some of us are suffering. This is not an exaggeration, it is literally a statement of fact. In order to continue playing we suffer, eyestrain, and headaches.
To alleviate this, and to allow us to continue playing, can you please allow us the option of using the old icons in the interim?
I am sure eventually you will present a wonderful new experience, that is clear, distinctive, and a delight to use. until that time, please have mercy.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
Muul Udonii
THORN Syndicate Circle-Of-Two
157
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:59:26 -
[1025] - Quote
I don't like the new icons. Not in that I hate the design, I just think they look bad, almost childish. When the old gate, moon, tower, station etc. icons on the overview were crisp and clear, the new ones with a filling just look like a bad attempt to copy them.
Maybe reduce the size of them by 15% or so, and make them transparent, that might look better.
Or just use the ones from your dev blog on the subject, they actually looked pretty cool. |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
461
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 14:59:58 -
[1026] - Quote
I seem to be having more odd issues when in space.
Exmple, tried to look at another ship last night and my client flickered between black and white and I couldn't do a thing for a good five seconds in a combat environment.
Multiple times when hitting align or approach my ship either doesn't move, or goes nowhere close to full speed, even when not bumping into someone. Double clicking in space seems to work though. |
Alsayr Nara
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:02:46 -
[1027] - Quote
What about T3 gallente destroyer Hecate ship ? We know release date for this ship (or closed time to be) ? |
BuddhaMancer
Just Wandering.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:02:48 -
[1028] - Quote
not sure if this has already been mentioned.. but the police rats(concord/navy, also the industrial that undock from stations) now share the same icons as player ships.. which is actually quiet confusing when landing on a gate/station. so maybe change their colour? to be blue or green or whatever that isnt white or red |
Ivorcya Yvormes
Scope Works
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:10:33 -
[1029] - Quote
Sadly i have to follow most of my predecessors in this threadnought with my opinion.
The previous icons used to be clear and distinctive. That's what their purpose was for years: a quick and reliable way of telling what ship classes are on the field. All other information is in the "type" field of your overview. Putting that much extra information into the icon field as you did does NOT help the way you think it does. You still need to know the exact hull type and for many ships you even need to zoom in on the ship itself to know what you are up against and if it's worth or even possible to take on that in your ship(s).
The issue some previous talkers mentioned: "but you couldn't see the difference between frigs and dessies on the overview". I agree, that was one of the flaws of the previous icons. Even though size distinction was not always truly possible with the old icons accompanied by some other flaws, they provided a quick and reliable way of telling item classes apart. This is totally missing in the new system.
Right now i have deactivated the icons column. Why? They are irritating and useless because not quickly enough identified, thus just distracting from important information like in the types column. And on top of that - as if that wasn't enough yet - they ain't even stylistically fitting into the futuristic style of the eve overview, they look like something escaped from a 1980s arcade style console game. So now i'm missing a way of quickly identifying a certain object class on my overview - very bad and an extreme hinderance for especially pvp.
As a developer myself i'm shocked how you guys ignore that much negative user feedback. Clearly there's like at least 90% negative responses from what i see by skimming over in this threadnought, yet you refuse to acknowledge that you made a mistake and roll back. If i did my work like that, my customers simply would get another guy to do what i do for them. On the long term that does not pay out very well ....
Finally to be a little constructive in this post as well:
I'm asking you as a passionate EVE player that does not want to stop playing this game over bad design decisions by a few of your devs: Make such a critical change optional. You received a lot of negative feedback. Act on it.
You did with the beta map and with the notifications. Please do it again.
This way you can keep your newly achieved icon stuff without angering a big part of your customer base. Those that like it can use it. Those that dislike it, use the old icons.
I know that means some additional work now. I hate it everytime a customer comes back at me and says "uh no that needs to be undone/done differently". BUT i can assure you that it will be worth the extra hours. It will please a lot of your paying customers. |
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:14:49 -
[1030] - Quote
Panterata wrote:To attention of CCP Claymore again.
Claymore pls write something
Just to specify to be clear - The players DO NOT want you to make the new icons more shiny and beautiful. They want old overview icons.
I'm writing this in case you post something like "we will make the new one better" because this will be NOT a solution for us.
So I hope you will fix them till 2-3 days because I didn't play couple of days and I really want to play again
Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain.
Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons...
|
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:22:12 -
[1031] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:Panterata wrote:To attention of CCP Claymore again.
Claymore pls write something
Just to specify to be clear - The players DO NOT want you to make the new icons more shiny and beautiful. They want old overview icons.
I'm writing this in case you post something like "we will make the new one better" because this will be NOT a solution for us.
So I hope you will fix them till 2-3 days because I didn't play couple of days and I really want to play again Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain. Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons...
Probably you read only this post of my others. Yes it's true that ppl don't want it or to be more accurate 75% of the ppl in this game don't want it.
If you read my other post you can see that I wrote that we must have both option
New icons - for you Old icons - for me
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:22:30 -
[1032] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:Panterata wrote:To attention of CCP Claymore again.
Claymore pls write something
Just to specify to be clear - The players DO NOT want you to make the new icons more shiny and beautiful. They want old overview icons.
I'm writing this in case you post something like "we will make the new one better" because this will be NOT a solution for us.
So I hope you will fix them till 2-3 days because I didn't play couple of days and I really want to play again Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain. Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons...
sometimes less is more even in the time it takes to grow in this game almost to long....10 plus years to b maxed out ppl leave b4 getting maxed as to to long to get there
|
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:22:39 -
[1033] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote: Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain.
Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons...
Don't mean to be rude, but you obviously have no experience with such aspects of EVE as fast-paced or fleet PvP in hostile environments. These require the interface to be more than 'having a facelift' or 'looking fine'. These require the interface to be military-grade precise and functional above all else. Old in-space and overview icons did provide that to a degree. The new ones ruined that, because they are not nearly as distinguishable from each other as they need to be. |
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:26:09 -
[1034] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:Panterata wrote:To attention of CCP Claymore again.
Claymore pls write something
Just to specify to be clear - The players DO NOT want you to make the new icons more shiny and beautiful. They want old overview icons.
I'm writing this in case you post something like "we will make the new one better" because this will be NOT a solution for us.
So I hope you will fix them till 2-3 days because I didn't play couple of days and I really want to play again Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain. Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons... Probably you read only this post of my others. Yes it's true that ppl don't want it or to be more accurate 75% of the ppl in this game don't want it. If you read my other post you can see that I wrote that we must have both option New icons - for you Old icons - for me and ppl that like it
yea right , missed that. That should be managble, as they say gonna to improve em |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:31:21 -
[1035] - Quote
My sole concern is that they must included it as soon as possible or roll it back. Not to implement them on next big patch after 3-4 months! This must happen next week. So they will have a time to improve their "new icons" in the following months and after that just to add it in the next patch! |
gallaoth
Sophisticated Liquidators Immediate Destruction
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:32:22 -
[1036] - Quote
I dislike the overview icons :( other than that its ok. |
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:33:02 -
[1037] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote: Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain.
Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons...
Don't mean to be rude, but you obviously have no experience with such aspects of EVE as fast-paced or fleet PvP in hostile environments. These require the interface to be more than 'having a facelift' or 'looking fine'. These require the interface to be military-grade precise and functional above all else. Old in-space and overview icons did provide that to a degree. The new ones ruined that, because they are not nearly as distinguishable from each other as they need to be.
Theyre working on that, but tbh the old ones were from ancient times...in 2015 even the worst B-Movies offer besser ideas than big red massive crosse which completly blocks the object at distance. Not all player like to play MMORPG for PvP and many posts say theyre okay. |
Noel Darroch
Phantom Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:36:10 -
[1038] - Quote
Although they may take some getting used to, I don't mind the new icons. |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1606
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:36:23 -
[1039] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:Don't mean to be rude, but you obviously have no experience with such aspects of EVE as fast-paced or fleet PvP in hostile environments. These require the interface to be more than 'having a facelift' or 'looking fine'. These require the interface to be military-grade precise and functional above all else. Old in-space and overview icons did provide that to a degree. The new ones ruined that, because they are not nearly as distinguishable from each other as they need to be.
This is a completely subjective assessment. I can see the new icons more clearly than the old ones. I find them significantly less ambiguous. I've looked at the pictures of what people consider confusing and overwhelming and all I see is clarity.
The obvious exception is the 90% scaling problem. That's just flat-out broken, and CCP should have collected and acted on that information before rolling this out.
If this gets rolled back, then I suppose I can go back to not being able to see player ships nearly as well as rats (whose old icons were strong and iconic), mistaking destroyers and cruisers and battlecruisers, and not really seeing cruisers and larger ships at all, because those icons are thin and weak and nearly indistinguishable from the bounding box of the overview column. The game is playable that way--I just ignored the icons and looked at the ship type column--but I was really looking forward to this.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
204
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:42:06 -
[1040] - Quote
One objection I hear is that it's now difficult to tell player ships from other items, which I understand. With the old icons, player ships were squares that didn't look like anything else (except perhaps stations which were different enough in various ways to not cause confusion.) While with Carnyx, the triangular player ship icons can look a bit like other non-ship icons, and especially like NPC ship (eg, faction police) icons.
However, that is not an issue whatsoever for me, because of how I set up my overview a long time ago.
http://i.imgur.com/6YxJP9A.png http://i.imgur.com/PazEX1t.png
I wanted it extremely clear what items in my overview were player-controlled ships. That's all I cared about. I've done that by making sure every ship gets both a colored background and a colored tag. In decreasing order of priority:
Fleetmates are of course purple. Criminals and suspects get red/yellow so I can tell lowsec targets. Limited engagement pilots are bright cyan. Then everything else gets teal. I do this by turning on teal for all standings selections (excellent, good, terrible, bad, neutral and no standing.) Also, all players get a yellow color tag by default (unless they have some other tag due to criminal status, BFF, etc.)
That's it. I don't care about wars or alliances or bounties. NPSI, after all. :-) (Although for nostalgia's sake, CAS corpies get the default green star. They'll still get shot in low/null of course.) The player ships are easy for me to pick out due to the teal background and yellow colortag. There's no chance for me to confuse the nearby neutral NPC battleships as a player ship, and I can easily tell player ships from celestials, mobile depots, wrecks, and the like. ___
Another issue I've heard is the sorting behavior when the icon column is selected. Thinking over it as much as my poor memory allows, I don't think sorting has changed whatsoever. It's always just sorted by two things - type and status. So for types, celestials came first and were sorted into their types (sun, moon, station, etc), then player ships came last and were sorted by status (so in my overview, reds would be grouped, purples were grouped, neutrals grouped, etc.) I don't recall ship classes being sorted in any way, just grouped such that all Machs were together, all Scimitars together, etc.
My theory is that the lack of sorting by ship size or capability is now much more obvious due to the new icons, but the actual sorting algorithms haven't changed at all.
I would certainly like to have the ships in the overview sorted by size, though. Pods, shuttles and frigs on one end of the scale, Titans on the other. With ships then sorted alphabetically by hull name within the size groupings. ___
About the 90% scaling issue - this definitely needs to be fixed. It's not a problem for me personally since I use 100% scaling, but the screenshots I've seen look pretty illegible. Whether the best solution is to tweak the scaling / anti-alias algorithms or tweak the icons, I don't know, but something needs to bee done. ___
After using the icons more, I'm liking them more. I can look at the grid using my camera drones and get a very good sense of what's going on - what the frigs are doing and how they're moving, were the cruisers are clustered or kiting, how the battleships are positioned, that sort of thing. Many of the issues other people are having aren't issues for me, partly because of the above overview settings I've implemented. Perhaps what I've done can help other people too.
Finally, I have no issue with CCP bringing back the old icons, of course - so long as the new ones remain an option for those people like me who like them. |
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:42:48 -
[1041] - Quote
LOL just think 2 or 3 more patches/ updates .ccp will have it down to 10 to 15 k players |
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:45:44 -
[1042] - Quote
OK, so, with the first day of the new realease, and the initial cry of "the new icons suck", ccp replied with "wait for 3 days, give it a chance to grow on you". I have never actually posted on the forums here before, never had anything interest me enough that i felt i needed to interupt my game time with posting on some forum, until those icons showed up.
First day of the release, i posted, and have been checking back, looking for Dev replies, which have been very few. So, i spend three days, doing PVE, waiting to see if the new icons would get to that "instinctual" point of recognition that I had with the old ones. Ummm, NO. Didn't happen. Now at least i know that the red mobile depots will attack me, and anything bigger than that might be a battleship, cruiser, or battle cruiser.
I'm still waiting on the a solid reply to these icons which the majority seem to dislike, I've only seen one dev post today. "we don't want to make a kneejerk reaction" What what the kneejerk reaction that prompted the change in the first place? I haven't seen even one reply to that question.
I have this week off from work, was planning on doing a lot of null sec hacking sites, make some isk. With this new set of icons, i haven't risked it.
**edit to fix spelling |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
142
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:57:06 -
[1043] - Quote
Lazarus Complex wrote:OK, so, with the first day of the new realease, and the initial cry of "the new icons suck", ccp replied with "wait for 3 days, give it a chance to grow on you". I have never actually posted on the forums here before, never had anything interest me enough that i felt i needed to interupt my game time with posting on some forum, until those icons showed up.
First day of the release, i posted, and have been checking back, looking for Dev replies, which have been very few. So, i spend three days, doing PVE, waiting to see if the new icons would get to that "instinctual" point of recognition that I had with the old ones. Ummm, NO. Didn't happen. Now at least i know that the red mobile depots will attack me, and anything bigger than that might be a battleship, cruiser, or battle cruiser.
I'm still waiting on the a solid reply to these icons which the majority seem to dislike, I've only seen one dev post today. "we don't want to make a kneejerk reaction" What what the kneejerk reaction that prompted the change in the first place? I haven't seen even one reply to that question.
I have this week off from work, was planning on doing a lot of null sec hacking sites, make some isk. With this new set of icons, i haven't risked it.
**edit to fix spelling
On the upside, the pvp folks that would hunt you are having the same issue. (Many of them, anyway) So you *might* be safe, or you might not
But to CCP, it's not really a knee-jerk reaction now. The testers had given you a very good line of feedback, and now, the playerbase has given you quite a bit as well. I'm trying to work with these new icons, but it's not working out well. If the heads of CCP are so married to this new scheme, is there ANY room for adjustment? I'm thinking of ways to differentiate NPCs and Players, as an example, in one glance. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
814
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:57:33 -
[1044] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. If only you had been so circumspect when it came to shipping these UI changes. |
Eternity Mistseeker
Renegades of Eve Aureus Alae
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 15:58:54 -
[1045] - Quote
It's difficult to tell which are ship icons on the new overview.
I've already got myself killed once through this, and i am more than capable of doing it without assistance from the UI. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
480
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:01:55 -
[1046] - Quote
Hey CCP.
When can we expect the Dev Blog on Skin's that CCP Falcon promised to have for us FOUR Week ago? ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5719918#post5720298 ) As you can see from the post above, we were promised a dev blog by "Early Next Week", that was a MONTH ago today. We have got nothing, and CCP Falcon hasn't bothered to update the thread with any explanation, or eta on when we should expect it.
So are we actually going to get this blog? Are we gonna get an explanation? Or is he just allowed to lie to the community on the forums and then ignore us? Cause I donno how you runs things there, but in my business, if I make a promise to a client(s), and fail to deliver, provide an explanation, of even respond, I'd be fired. And it wouldn't take 5 weeks to reach that point. |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:04:38 -
[1047] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:CCP Surge wrote:We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. If only you had been so circumspect when it came to shipping these UI changes.
Kneejerk?
Roll them back already before we lose more players.
I'm a pre 2006 player. I came to EVE from Star Wars Galaxies, where the same crap killed the game and all of Sony Online Entertainment.
Why not just pull an apology and roll it back? Dev-pride gonna tank CCP Games? Certainly that's not a good idea. I don't see another CCP title that people are excited to play... this is it. And it's dwindling.
ROLL IT BACK
KK |
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:08:17 -
[1048] - Quote
@CCP You told us that you look at the feedback.
Can you tell witch options you have for the problem with the UI-Icons (looking bad, most players don`t want them)? How long will it take to bring us a solution with the old Icons ( will it comes in the next days, next update or never)?
|
Theia Matova
Dominance Theory
128
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:20:34 -
[1049] - Quote
Please give way to change back to the old overview icons. New icons contain too much detail for their size. Look != usability please don't do same style UI change decisions in future. |
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:27:33 -
[1050] - Quote
I just realized, the new icon for an obelisk or other freighters, looks a lot like a mushroom from mario bros.
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSEnjj_mfDGYWpDo3GPkpkFUCiVz7HlRhsMzwBRmlqh3_6lq1RuWbUbCnhmgw |
|
Botia Macracantha
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:29:26 -
[1051] - Quote
Kinda fed up wondering why mobile tractor units keep landing on-grid in heavy numbers then warping off.
Why in God's name did you use an icon type and shape that had a WELL ESTABLISHED purpose. All the celestial crap, SBUs etc that will no longer be present once Fozzies grand plan to make everyone play world of warships hits, are ok, these are easily avoided, but man, those super-mobile MTUs ...
I am going to assume it is one of the following :
Arrogance Stupidity Short-sightedness Having zero cohesion across dev groups to coordinate/critique suggestions and impact Overtly ignoring feedback from the CSM Letting a 5-year old pick an icon palette from MS Word's wing-ding list Expecting the players to just suck it up because they always do Spectacular disregard for your player base
In fact, I think it is all of the above.
Chuck Fozzies lunatic sov mechanics on top of this and far from attracting short-attention span consolers and new money into this game, you will only succeed in driving more people out. Go check out the Dust graphs for the shape of things to come (down by 50% in a year). Once the game loses critical mass of older players (whether they pay cash or by PLEX is irrelevant) the game will no longer have qualified drivers for the content engine and the game will die.
I know Fozzie thinks his changes will make the game - he is wrong. The concept of activity sov IS needed but his way of devaluing and disincentivising players who want to make their mark on null because it can be gone in no time, is doomed to fail. You have 1 month to pre-un-frack the game and get it right.
Against THAT, the worse than useless, confusing kiddy icons pale into insignificance as a problem.
And in the name of balance, nice remodel of the Caracal/Cerberus hull, but as Bill S said : one Swallow does not a Summer make. |
Di Mulle
95
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:30:38 -
[1052] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Maybe it is a wording issue, but it feels like you perceive this situation as a kind of a fight.
This is natural for any creative person, but please understand that the players are here not to rub a dev ego. Or, for that matter, to hurt it.
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
|
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:35:15 -
[1053] - Quote
Tyr Dolorem wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Is that code for do nothing and hope this all blows over?
Exactly.
Losing faith here, CCP. |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:38:40 -
[1054] - Quote
People in the main are not asking you do to a complete u turn we would just like to have the option to use the old icons the same way that we can choose to use the old map verses the new map.
Is there a problem with the game mechanics in being able to offer this option?
At the very least can we have brackets around player ships because jumping into a system at the moment it's very hard on the eyes to distinguish ships from all the other system icons present.A quick look at the ui in the old version allowed you to see a bracket and know instantly that someone was there,now it's really hard work. |
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
209
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:42:38 -
[1055] - Quote
News Icons
The most important thing CCP could do with this icon change is to bring back the crosses for NPC's. It is difficult to tell the difference between players and npc when neutral players are grey and npcGÇÖs are grey.
NPC's should not be able to be mistaken for players. Ever. Changing the NPC's back to crosses will make it much easier to use the information in the form of new icons CCP have given us.
Having a legend in game, that is easily findable, of what each icon is should be available when such a huge change to the game takes place. Yes, this is a huge change. It effects how we interact with the game when we are in space in our spaceship game.
Now, I do like the idea of giving more information at a glance when in combat. The idea is a good one. The implementation is just off a bit.
For instance, it took me looking at the picture of the new icons someone so generously linked before I even realized NPC's were shaded and players were not shaded. The reason? The icons are small and both npcGÇÖs and neutrals are grey.
Possible way to help with this: Adjust the little circle of color around the icons in space that denotes blues, reds, neutrals, etc. This circle of color needs to be bigger. As it is there just isnt a large enough area for the color to be easily distinguishable on such small icons. Some icons are worse than others like the frigate icon whose inside fill space is very tiny.
So there is no room for misunderstanding. It looks like the idea behind the icon change is to give players more information at a glance. This is a very good idea that I embrace. The implementation just needs tweaked a bit.
One last thing. Bring back the capsule icon. The capsule icon looked like a capsule before the patch. Dont know what that new thing is but it is not a capsule.
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
|
McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
732
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:42:46 -
[1056] - Quote
On the plus side, the new propulsion module names are top notch.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
817
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:43:20 -
[1057] - Quote
Di Mulle wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Maybe it is a wording issue, but it feels like you perceive this situation as a kind of a fight. This is natural for any creative person, but please understand that the players are here not to rub a dev ego. Or, for that matter, to hurt it. While I too would appreciate a more compassionate response from the developers on this subject, it's worth noting that many of them are not native English speakers and the cold brush offs are likely not intended. It's just an unfortunate result of the language barrier. |
Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics.
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:45:02 -
[1058] - Quote
In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. |
Sniper Smith
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
481
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:52:13 -
[1059] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. In general, ya.. but I know several older players who simply can't see the difference anymore. And that makes it much harder. |
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
99
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 16:54:12 -
[1060] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote: This is a completely subjective assessment. I can see the new icons more clearly than the old ones. I find them significantly less ambiguous. I've looked at the pictures of what people consider confusing and overwhelming and all I see is clarity.
The obvious exception is the 90% scaling problem. That's just flat-out broken, and CCP should have collected and acted on that information before rolling this out.
If this gets rolled back, then I suppose I can go back to not being able to see player ships nearly as well as rats (whose old icons were strong and iconic), mistaking destroyers and cruisers and battlecruisers, and not really seeing cruisers and larger ships at all, because those icons are thin and weak and nearly indistinguishable from the bounding box of the overview column. The game is playable that way--I just ignored the icons and looked at the ship type column--but I was really looking forward to this.
Yes, it's subjective, and it comes from someone who has been enjoying space PvP for 5 years, every other day or so. Have you?
In order to make it, I didn't look at pictures, I warped into a PvP heavy grid on Sisi, where all the things were moving, stopping, disappearing and appearing again. I imagined I was trying to report it in a live fleet on TQ. I was terrified by the amount of different shaped which basically mean the same. 8 shapes for ships, 8 shapes for drones, plus wrecks. Sixteen odd shapes to recognize against two (!) with old brackets, only to make a count of ships and whether they have drones out or not. Where's clarity in that?
So you are saying you had to use the type column in the overview. Well you should have, because the idea that you can put all the tactically relevant information into an icon is silly.
|
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
817
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:00:26 -
[1061] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. Indeed.
In reality most of us will still be here long after these Devs have moved on to their next job. Maybe that inequality of investment is one source of the rage. For many of us EVE is a passion, for many of them EVE is a job. For me it is all too easy to respond to damage to EVE like an attack on a loved one, for them it may just be another workplace breakage, another ticket number or another task that must be completed before they get to go home.
I certainly apologize for my part in this unpleasant episode. But it still takes two to tango. |
ZapStar253
Solarwind GP
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:08:58 -
[1062] - Quote
I am Glad another poster mentioned Older player( age in rl ), having more difficulty with the new icons,True.
Also CCP I already have trouble at times seeing the cycle timer that circle Modules when active (please consider making this more visible in the future! |
Sere O'Asis
Origin Stories
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:21:33 -
[1063] - Quote
Sniper Smith wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. In general, ya.. but I know several older players who simply can't see the difference anymore. And that makes it much harder.
It can be younger players with less than perfect vision that can't tell the difference either. |
Bonaventured
Gladius Veritatis Fidelas Constans
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:23:48 -
[1064] - Quote
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:Removed an off topic post. No, you just removed posts who you believe are off topic. In effect you removed posts who you don't like it because are too obviously true . |
Steijn
Quay Industries
748
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:30:59 -
[1065] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons.
it doesnt matter what its over, the point is that the game in its current state is unplayable for myself, and for plenty of others judging by this thread. |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
362
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:38:39 -
[1066] - Quote
As the feedback from more and more players is gathered, i sense that the ones who are ok with the new icons are not normaly meeting critical situations where instant reflexes are needed to survive. It looks like missionner, miners, traders, etc like the new icons. And players doing PvP or living in hostile environment (WS, explo...) hate them. Which proves that they are bad : EVE is supposed to be a harsh environment where you can any time be attacked by other players, you devs have bragged enough about that (hmn, mr Falcon ?). So the new icons are not adapted to the core of EVE : PvP. Admit your fail and stop to annoy us with useless and game-breaking "features" directly coming from your marketing department. I'm not angry at the devs, i know that they have to obey if they want to stay employed. I'm angry at the decision makers.
I have found a title for this release : "Incarna 2, the revenge of CCP"
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:45:11 -
[1067] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks Ok, try to remember the Akasai battle or check this image, it is about a recent goon event : http://imgur.com/omAP0FI
Yeah sorry, I don't still have a big fight with the new icons set (and I seriously hope I won't have one), and my overview was badly setted (but I will update it as the tabs will partially counter the new icons).
And now by using your imagination power, replace the old drone icon by at least 4 drone icons of the new set, and the ships by the corresponding one of course. And please keep tell us that the new icons are a good idea who permit a fast and efficient analysis of the field. Please, DARE.
Of course, this kind of battle is rare and it is probable that Fozziesov change that, but it is obvious that the new icons are an absolute failure as they transform the field into an terrifying mess.
If you still want to change the icons, then at least try to respect the old way even if you want to use new icons : - one drone icon, not more (maybe if you add an option to disable it, you can add a second one to separate warfare/mining drones from fighting drones, as a test) - one icon for a SIZE of ship, NOT a type, with - maybe - the exception of the industrial ships who can have ONE specific icon (and I mean one ONLY). Why not, with colors (but not red) if it is a T2/T3 variant. - one icon for containers. Seriously, there is no point to have different icons for each of them. - and restore the old wreck ones, or at least the old logic.
You can do easier and give us an option or a way to mod the game and so restore the old icons. Your call, but don't be surprised of consequences if you keep the new ones and do nothing. Even for CCP, there is a time that you should stop being pride of bad choices.
|
Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics.
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:47:07 -
[1068] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. it doesnt matter what its over, the point is that the game in its current state is unplayable for myself, and for plenty of others judging by this thread.
So, what it boils down to is "I'm used to playing this way and they changed it. Change it back!" right? |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:48:27 -
[1069] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks I sincerely hope that my suggestion of customizing our brackets/icons per ship/item class is on the table, and keeping the old icons as part of that. I'm 100% sure I wasn't the first to propose it because that would be silly. |
Jackie Esticato
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:48:47 -
[1070] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Steijn wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. it doesnt matter what its over, the point is that the game in its current state is unplayable for myself, and for plenty of others judging by this thread. So, what it boils down to is "I'm used to playing this way and they changed it. Change it back!" right?
Not always, thought some are.
For a lot of people, it's not that the icon's were changed, it that they were changed for the worse. |
|
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1606
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:49:21 -
[1071] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:In order to make it, I didn't look at pictures, I warped into a PvP heavy grid on Sisi, where all the things were moving, stopping, disappearing and appearing again. I imagined I was trying to report it in a live fleet on TQ. I was terrified by the amount of different shaped which basically mean the same. 8 shapes for ships, 8 shapes for drones, plus wrecks. Sixteen odd shapes to recognize against two (!) with old brackets, only to make a count of ships and whether they have drones out or not. Where's clarity in that?
So in other words, your test was to jump in to the worst case immediately and then complain that it was bad.
OK.
I've eased myself in, because that's the sensible thing to do when confronted with a new icon set.
Quote:So you are saying you had to use the type column in the overview. Well you should have, because the idea that you can put all the tactically relevant information into an icon is silly.
OK, so have one icon for "player ship" and be done with it? For me, that would be better than the old way, because as I mentioned, I couldn't rely on the old player ship icons at all.
The new icons don't have all the information. For my money they do a much, much better job of communicating hull size and general category, which is what they're supposed to do..
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
117
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:53:08 -
[1072] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Benito Arias wrote:In order to make it, I didn't look at pictures, I warped into a PvP heavy grid on Sisi, where all the things were moving, stopping, disappearing and appearing again. I imagined I was trying to report it in a live fleet on TQ. I was terrified by the amount of different shaped which basically mean the same. 8 shapes for ships, 8 shapes for drones, plus wrecks. Sixteen odd shapes to recognize against two (!) with old brackets, only to make a count of ships and whether they have drones out or not. Where's clarity in that? So in other words, your test was to jump in to the worst case immediately and then complain that it was bad. OK. I've eased myself in, because that's the sensible thing to do when confronted with a new icon set. Quote:So you are saying you had to use the type column in the overview. Well you should have, because the idea that you can put all the tactically relevant information into an icon is silly. OK, so have one icon for "player ship" and be done with it? For me, that would be better than the old way, because as I mentioned, I couldn't rely on the old player ship icons at all. The new icons don't have all the information. For my money they do a much, much better job of communicating hull size and general category, which is what they're supposed to do..
What do you care you don't even play this game. |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1606
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:54:50 -
[1073] - Quote
Tyr Dolorem wrote:What do you care you don't even play this game.
If I didn't care I wouldn't post. Try harder.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 17:56:05 -
[1074] - Quote
You care about posting not what you're posting about.
inb4 isd hammer |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:01:08 -
[1075] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks Then what do you have say for all the feedback that was given in the very thread YOU created while it was on SiSi, CCP Surge??? Most of the criticism so far was listed MANY times in that thread, how would reacting to that be a 'knee-jerk'? You've had the feedback for weeks now (close to a month)....
This whole thing smells of a very arrogant Dev team that is too prideful to take good constructive criticism. I called it the moment you guys stopped responding to the SiSi thread and said you would push this to TQ and never look back. Please prove me wrong.
back on topic: Yep...icons are still just has hard to tell player ships from neutral NPC's....and there is still no clear progression of ship sizes...pretty much everything that you've already been told, but have buried your head in the sand because it doesn't fit within your idea of special and pretty.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
|
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
366
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:01:15 -
[1076] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:Tyr Dolorem wrote:What do you care you don't even play this game. If I didn't care I wouldn't post. Try harder.
The name of your corpo : Drinking in station... For that indeed i bet the new icons are perfectly fine.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
820
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:03:39 -
[1077] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote:Tyr Dolorem wrote:What do you care you don't even play this game. If I didn't care I wouldn't post. Try harder. The name of your corpo : Drinking in station... For that indeed i bet the new icons are perfectly fine. Not if you drink too much and accidentally undock. |
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
101
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:08:54 -
[1078] - Quote
Dersen Lowery wrote:So in other words, your test was to jump in to the worst case immediately and then complain that it was bad.
OK.
I've eased myself in, because that's the sensible thing to do when confronted with a new icon set.
Yes, I did, because that's what testing is about, and that's what my way of EVE is about. And I found out that the new icons do not work as intended.
Quote:OK, so have one icon for "player ship" and be done with it? For me, that would be better than the old way, because as I mentioned, I couldn't rely on the old player ship icons at all.
Quite, one shape for player ships, varying by size and maybe sizable details in rare cases. Because 'Player ship' is the crucial bit. Whether is it a Frigate or a Battleship, is secondary, and it is never enough by itself, anyway, without the exact Class name (Scorpion or NavPoc? Stiletto or Tormentor?) and other stuff, which you look for in the overview.
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
749
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:09:32 -
[1079] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Steijn wrote:Kamahl Daikun wrote:In a way, it's hilarious to see people threatening to leave over icons. it doesnt matter what its over, the point is that the game in its current state is unplayable for myself, and for plenty of others judging by this thread. So, what it boils down to is "I'm used to playing this way and they changed it. Change it back!" right?
not at all. the new icons are not distinguishable, or in basic english, you cant tell what the fck they are. All you should need to do is to have a quick glance and know exactly which is which. With the new icons you cant because too many of them are too similar. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:11:24 -
[1080] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote: This is a completely subjective assessment. I can see the new icons more clearly than the old ones. I find them significantly less ambiguous. I've looked at the pictures of what people consider confusing and overwhelming and all I see is clarity.
The obvious exception is the 90% scaling problem. That's just flat-out broken, and CCP should have collected and acted on that information before rolling this out.
If this gets rolled back, then I suppose I can go back to not being able to see player ships nearly as well as rats (whose old icons were strong and iconic), mistaking destroyers and cruisers and battlecruisers, and not really seeing cruisers and larger ships at all, because those icons are thin and weak and nearly indistinguishable from the bounding box of the overview column. The game is playable that way--I just ignored the icons and looked at the ship type column--but I was really looking forward to this.
Yes, it's subjective, and it comes from someone who has been enjoying space PvP for 5 years, every other day or so. Have you? In order to make it, I didn't look at pictures, I warped into a PvP heavy grid on Sisi, where all the things were moving, stopping, disappearing and appearing again. I imagined I was trying to report it in a live fleet on TQ. I was terrified by the amount of different shaped which basically mean the same. 8 shapes for ships, 8 shapes for drones, plus wrecks. Sixteen odd shapes to recognize against two (!) with old brackets, only to make a count of ships and whether they have drones out or not. Where's clarity in that? So you are saying you had to use the type column in the overview. Well you should have, because the idea that you can put all the tactically relevant information into an icon is silly.
All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way.
|
|
Jackie Esticato
S T R A T C O M Critical-Mass
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:15:56 -
[1081] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Benito Arias wrote:Dersen Lowery wrote: This is a completely subjective assessment. I can see the new icons more clearly than the old ones. I find them significantly less ambiguous. I've looked at the pictures of what people consider confusing and overwhelming and all I see is clarity.
The obvious exception is the 90% scaling problem. That's just flat-out broken, and CCP should have collected and acted on that information before rolling this out.
If this gets rolled back, then I suppose I can go back to not being able to see player ships nearly as well as rats (whose old icons were strong and iconic), mistaking destroyers and cruisers and battlecruisers, and not really seeing cruisers and larger ships at all, because those icons are thin and weak and nearly indistinguishable from the bounding box of the overview column. The game is playable that way--I just ignored the icons and looked at the ship type column--but I was really looking forward to this.
Yes, it's subjective, and it comes from someone who has been enjoying space PvP for 5 years, every other day or so. Have you? In order to make it, I didn't look at pictures, I warped into a PvP heavy grid on Sisi, where all the things were moving, stopping, disappearing and appearing again. I imagined I was trying to report it in a live fleet on TQ. I was terrified by the amount of different shaped which basically mean the same. 8 shapes for ships, 8 shapes for drones, plus wrecks. Sixteen odd shapes to recognize against two (!) with old brackets, only to make a count of ships and whether they have drones out or not. Where's clarity in that? So you are saying you had to use the type column in the overview. Well you should have, because the idea that you can put all the tactically relevant information into an icon is silly. All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way.
That's half of it. Turning NPC's upside down would do the rest.
Drones are x's NPC are trigangles pointed down Players are triangles pointed up.
That way you could keep or lose all the extra types and details, because it ceases to matter on the whole.
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:16:12 -
[1082] - Quote
Ooooooh No..... New Icons still here..!!!!
Can CCP you please dump them, as they are useless in high pressure situations, it is actually quicker to identify ship type using the overview type column rather than the ridiculous new icon set... ("Not working as intended" you get it?)
|
HotBurger
Boere Kavaliers RUCA Emperor
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:22:46 -
[1083] - Quote
Please change the Planetary Interaction mechanics to pre-carnyx - specifically the fact that before I could just double-click an extractor and it will open the extraction window. Now I have to single-click the extractor, click the extract option and then the extraction window opens.
It's a small think, but when you make the bulk of your ISK through PI it does add a certain level of frustration and makes the process even more tedious than it already is. |
Xi-Nu73
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:28:07 -
[1084] - Quote
The new look for the Caracal is amazing! Thanks CCP. Please update the appearance of other ships. |
Aongus Rylian
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:30:02 -
[1085] - Quote
After Watching a "Blob" run from system to system taking down the station services of our corp., and forcing us to either run around repairing the services or have none, Two STARK REALITIES were reached.
You have not created a scenario that will allow More and Smaller Corporations to enter Null.... You have not created a situation that will take systems from the "Big Corps" from lack of use. Sure there may be some culling, but over all, the Only thing that I see happening is that you have Perpetuated an Already Large Power Vacuum into a point of Frenzy. Essentially you have created the perfect storm for END GAME. Players will not and do not wish to be "Fire Men" all day. As in, having to be reactive constantly. And the largest Blob Wins.
With in a half hour of seeing this new new mechanic in action, I saw the bleak Death of EVE as we know it. You have created One item more important then all others in the game. The Entosis Link will be the One Item More Important then any others. In order to "Protect" the Entosis Process, You will need a BLOB. Once that realization is reached by eve players...... then it leaves One Scenario....... The Biggest Wins. I Blob your station effectively locking down the inhabitants, I send a smaller blob to begin the flip, and since the station won't be involved it is like poss bashing, without the lengthy process.
In the end, this is a trophy for the Biggest Corporations PERIOD. The services go down....... While the blob fights...... the station flips.......Reds Enter station.........Buy the Market.........Even if the reds choose to leave..............The Biggest Corp Wins.......... POWER VACUUM COMPLETE. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:33:36 -
[1086] - Quote
Some back of the envelope stats thus far.
Total posts in both Mosaic: General Feedback and Mosaic:Issues: 523 replies total posts in Carnyx: Feedback Alone: Over 1000 (that's over 1K in cargo space used in eveSp33k)
Approximate time Mosaic threads were started: April 27 2015 Approximate time Carnyx General Feedback thread was started: June 6 2015
If I were an official and trained statistics number cruncher.... I'd say there's a serious issue somewhere causing some dedicated and determined pushback that is different from Mosaic to Carnyx. And if I were in a managing, supervisory, or corporate level in a business with that level of pushback, I'd want to know why. Along with a solution that would lessen the push to allow more time to get the dry erase boards out for brainstorming a better 'update/revamp' since Eve is no longer the only game in a space theme available in the internet sandbox.
tl;dr! version. CCP sees kneejerk. We're just wanting two options, not one forced by fiat.
I don't want to leave. But I refuse to suffer thru migraines, eyestrain, and frustration to Play a Game. Where each person draws a line is different and personal. I won't sacrifice my physical well being that's already shaky for spare time amusement.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
209
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:34:14 -
[1087] - Quote
HotBurger wrote:Please change the Planetary Interaction mechanics to pre-carnyx - specifically the fact that before I could just double-click an extractor and it will open the extraction window. Now I have to single-click the extractor, click the extract option and then the extraction window opens.
You have to double click the extractor slower in order to get the extractor to come up. Click, pause, Click. Yes. It is annoying.
Why a change, to the speed, in which you double click something to make it come up was implemented is beyond me.
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
|
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:34:53 -
[1088] - Quote
my problem with the new icons is that there are round about 42 million different icons for different things now. before this change i could easily decide if something is a player ship, an npc ship, a structure or what ever. now it's really hard for me because even the player ship icon's don't follow any consistent shema. the jove observation icon could be a ship, a friendly NPC could be a player, a shuttle could be a wreck...
and also there are way to many icons in my opinion. getting a bit more information by just seeing the icon is a good thing, sure. but if there are too many different icons, it leads to confusion.
so i did some thoughts on how this could be better and came up with the icon shema below (yes, i stole dat concept thingy and replaced the icons, i am an evil piwat):
http://i.imgur.com/75xJGq1.png
i think this follows a shema wich all of us are used to, gives more informations than the old icons but not too much. in my optinion this is enough difference for the icons to decide to run or to fight.
i also thought about all the other icons, wich are not ships. and i think we have to ask ourselfes "what is the sense of more and new icons". the answere is "getting more informations than before in a really short amount of time just by looking at the icon". in my opinion, all other icons made enough sense before carnyx and therefore i would prefer to have them back rather than designing some unneseccary new confusion.
PS: i don't think that my icon designs are perfect but i think with all this explanation it should be clear what i tried to do. |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
119
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:35:52 -
[1089] - Quote
No **** the largest blob wins, that''s how it works and will always work, no amount of balancing or "direction" will change that.
Aongus Rylian wrote: The services go down....... While the blob fights...... the station flips.......Reds Enter station.........Buy the Market.........Even if the reds choose to leave..............The Biggest Corp Wins.......... POWER VACUUM COMPLETE.
I was unaware that it was possible to flip a station in a matter of hours. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:38:13 -
[1090] - Quote
Aongus Rylian wrote:After Watching a "Blob" run from system to system taking down the station services of our corp., and forcing us to either run around repairing the services or have none, Two STARK REALITIES were reached.
You have not created a scenario that will allow More and Smaller Corporations to enter Null.... You have not created a situation that will take systems from the "Big Corps" from lack of use. Sure there may be some culling, but over all, the Only thing that I see happening is that you have Perpetuated an Already Large Power Vacuum into a point of Frenzy. Essentially you have created the perfect storm for END GAME. Players will not and do not wish to be "Fire Men" all day. As in, having to be reactive constantly. And the largest Blob Wins.
With in a half hour of seeing this new new mechanic in action, I saw the bleak Death of EVE as we know it. You have created One item more important then all others in the game. The Entosis Link will be the One Item More Important then any others. In order to "Protect" the Entosis Process, You will need a BLOB. Once that realization is reached by eve players...... then it leaves One Scenario....... The Biggest Wins. I Blob your station effectively locking down the inhabitants, I send a smaller blob to begin the flip, and since the station won't be involved it is like poss bashing, without the lengthy process.
In the end, this is a trophy for the Biggest Corporations PERIOD. The services go down....... While the blob fights...... the station flips.......Reds Enter station.........Buy the Market.........Even if the reds choose to leave..............The Biggest Corp Wins.......... POWER VACUUM COMPLETE.
Is there video of this up somewhere?? I'm wanting to see this, please! Not snarky, not sarcastic, if this is what's going on over more than a few systems in null this will derail my later plans for my still tiny corp.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
|
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:41:21 -
[1091] - Quote
The level of juvenile crap in this thread is unbelievable. EVE players on the OS X platform have (and had for years) serious issues like clients freezing or crashing, and here some brainiacs are "threatening" to unsubscribe because they don't like getting used to a modified set of icons? Go ahead, quit playing EVE if you like, and good riddance. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
749
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:44:45 -
[1092] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:The level of juvenile crap in this thread is unbelievable. EVE players on the OS X platform have (and had for years) serious issues like clients freezing or crashing, and here some brainiacs are "threatening" to unsubscribe because they don't like getting used to a modified set of icons? Go ahead, quit playing EVE if you like, and good riddance.
and another one that thinks all this is down to something as simple as 'dont like'. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
821
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:45:15 -
[1093] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way. But make the NPC ships distinguishable by something other than colour. Colour AND something else fine, but not colour alone. Up/down arrows could work, I'd have to see it in-client to know.
In 99% of cases, I do not give a flying scotsman about NPCs. If the representation of NPCs in the space scene conflicts with the clear representation of player vessels, then the UI has been downgraded for my needs. I'll end up hiding them (as normal) and then swearing profusely on the 1% of occasions that I actually care that they exist.
From an aesthetic perspective, I'd prefer the space scene to be beautiful to look at and only ever obscured by pertinent information. So the more complex and messy you make the brackets the more likely I am to hide them just on taste grounds.
I'm now pretty much set on hiding the icons column in the overview, as it is now effectively useless to me and at 90% scaling it makes it look like my monitor is broken. Not something I wish to see ever.
So, I suppose on that basis, I'm not going to see these new icons anymore whatever CCP does. That's actually quite comforting for me right now, but it is probably a bad indication of the fitness of this product. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:52:10 -
[1094] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way. But make the NPC ships distinguishable by something other than colour. Colour AND something else fine, but not colour alone. Up/down arrows could work, I'd have to see it in-client to know. Your brain will process color even faster than it processes shape or tries to analyze size of similar shapes. Color is the FIRST thing that should be used to differentiate NPCs so that your brain can filter them out in a pinch. In fact I think if you're not utilizing the already-existing option to color things in your overview based on player/npc, you're doing ithings slightly wrong. Not to say everything now is good and dandy. Just that you're shooting yourself in the foot subtly already. |
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:52:58 -
[1095] - Quote
Steijn wrote:and another one that thinks all this is down to something as simple as 'dont like'. Please read my message again, and you will find that my comment was directed at a subset of morons. I did not generalize, and I understand that other players make valid (and properly argumented) point -- from their standpoint which I happen not to share -- but you will probably agree that the amount of idiots who can barely stammer more than "bwaaah, hate, will unsubscribe" is exceptionally high in this thread. All that in the face of real and serious problems which would merit more attention than icons. |
adam Davaham
The UEC Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 18:56:37 -
[1096] - Quote
Love the new changes, the icons are going to help me distinguish ship class at a glance. but perhaps too large of icons. the graphics are wow factor now! does slow things down, but does not make it unplayable. I'm happy with this newest edition. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
821
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:01:31 -
[1097] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way. But make the NPC ships distinguishable by something other than colour. Colour AND something else fine, but not colour alone. Up/down arrows could work, I'd have to see it in-client to know. Your brain will process color even faster than it processes shape or tries to analyze size of similar shapes. Color is the FIRST thing that should be used to differentiate NPCs so that your brain can filter them out in a pinch. In fact I think if you're not utilizing the already-existing option to color things in your overview based on player/npc, you're doing ithings slightly wrong. Not to say everything now is good and dandy. Just that you're shooting yourself in the foot subtly already. Instead of forcing me to repeat myself, why don't you go back and read my post more slowly.
Also, you haven't the slightest idea what my brain is or isn't capable of. Colour blindness isn't the only disability that these UI changes need to be sympathetic to, those like me with learning difficulties would also like the odd consideration. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:02:31 -
[1098] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks Here is the best and most concise report I can do without resorting to excessive graphical explanations c:
Reasons why engine-scaling the old icons wasn't so bad:- Crosses and brackets do not have curves, meaning much less apparent blur when scaling.
- Curved icons were mostly circle based, meaning that scaling wasn't so bad either, as it retained the same base shape.
New Icon BENEFITS:- Ability to separate frigate from destroyer and Cruiser from Battlecruiser.
- Noticing Capital ship differences by icon.
- Adding icons to things that previously had none.
New Icon FLAWS:- Scaling is obviously terrible because icons are so detailed now.
- You do not use enough icon space on the side for bigger ship icons and you do not keep consistent with the "upgrading triangle / arrow " theme. The distinction is not enough. Especially not when you start scaling things.
- There are too many icons which barely look different from another. Examples: Batteries. Drones. Containers. One Example to change: put extra icons on batteries elsewhere for better distinction. turret: right. Missile: left. Navigation Ewar: bottom. other Ewar: top.
- You relied too much on half-transparent fills for NPC entities, which is not a good distinction, especially not when scaled. Tiny abstracts like that are an all or nothing thing. A better choice would have been to increase line strength to fill icons more by 1px, either for NPC or player entities, or completely fill one type out. Same with sun and planet distinction. Even at 100% scaling, the rays don't matter. Old: Sun was fully white circle, Planet an empty circle.
- Red-blind people cannot rely on a shape distinction between NPC and player ships any more. The minor transparent fill is not enough.
Design Choice MISTAKES:- You have not been consistent with the themes.
- You put too much detail where it was not needed. Examples: Who needs to know if it was a player or NPC wreck? Who needs to know the exact difference between all those containers? This is what the "type" column is for.
- You do not use enough "fills" in your geometries, and your base shape variety is poor.
- You don't use asymmetry properly and rely too much on (bi-)symmetrical icons.
- You have re-used existing shapes which were a common sight for something completely different that was common too. I don't understand why you have been doing that, when you avoided the uses of crosses and brackets completely.
- There are only two diamond shaped things now, which are carriers and asteroids. This means the difference between containers and batteries and other small square / rectangular things has become too muddy.
- If containers are squares, why does a wreck with loot have not a square on top of it? Why did you even go away from a filled wreck having loot? That was perfect.
- A mobile depot should have more similarity with a storage-type icon. In this case square with horizontal "appendages". Or, when reverting, diamond with appendages.
- Icon association is lacking. Example: Asteroid belts should look like BELTS (horizontal icon emphasis) and not clusters of things.
Development MISTAKES:- You knew the engine scaling limitation and did nothing about it. It would have been better to design for 90% first, and then craft the other 3 sets by hand to remain crisp and avoid blur. If that is not possible, then you needed to check why it wasn't. Is the overview legacy code? Then you should have fixed that first, having more flexibility for the future. I'm not getting tired of posting this poopy little mockup that outsources targeting information and colour tags to the sides of the icon.
- You have not responded to the feedback from months ago with enough information (this is a general problem, by the way). You did not explain to us well enough why certain suggestions or other things cannot be done. You did not provide good enough arguments some things should be kept as planned. You did not talk to us about other obstacles you have to face. The more constructive interaction and knowledge we have from your side, the better we can adapt our suggestions.
Untapped potential of OLD ICONS: Most shapes were bi-symmetrical. A half of Gö+ is Göñ and half of that is Göÿ This allowed for easy memorization, but they also could use the same base icon three times for three different things, as demonstrated. You could even cut the Gö+ Icon in 8 different ways, for a total of 9 symbols of one base shape. Add to that different lengths of the bars. You only used were three different sizes of crosses. If each of those sizes would have been used to it's fullest potential, that would mean you had 27 different possibilities to chose from, excluding the mixes.
I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets.
I always wondered why you never did that.
"Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon." Can I ask about improving opportunities then? It has been 6 weeks :c |
Anthar Thebess
1063
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:07:29 -
[1099] - Quote
Quote: Missions & NPCs:
Frequency of Burner Missions offered by level 4 Security agents has been lowered.
Out of 20 missions 9 of them where burners. I don't see any decrease in amount of burner missions offered. Time will tell if i will again get 5-7 burner missions one after another.
If amount of burner missions should not be so high - maybe how often they appear is connected to sec status of a system , and in nulllsec this frequency reduce don't exist.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
|
Ninja Jiggalo
Twenty Questions RAZOR Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:07:34 -
[1100] - Quote
Whats to come next a monacle as a prerequsit for using an entosis link ? free precription glasses for all players as you will need em to see the new overview icons? more exciting changes like an undocking fee only 100 Aurum
yes i have just made up a load of drivel that no one wants apart from the free prescription glasses .... can i come work for you ccp?
AND PLEASE DONT IMPLIMENT ANY OF THE ABOVE IDEAS!!!
or i fear the playerbase may hunt me down for putting stupid ideas into your heads in the first place |
|
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:10:25 -
[1101] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets.
what do you think about my try? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5795742#post5795742
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
821
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:12:33 -
[1102] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:An excellent post Bravo. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:14:55 -
[1103] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way. But make the NPC ships distinguishable by something other than colour. Colour AND something else fine, but not colour alone. Up/down arrows could work, I'd have to see it in-client to know. Your brain will process color even faster than it processes shape or tries to analyze size of similar shapes. Color is the FIRST thing that should be used to differentiate NPCs so that your brain can filter them out in a pinch. In fact I think if you're not utilizing the already-existing option to color things in your overview based on player/npc, you're doing ithings slightly wrong. Not to say everything now is good and dandy. Just that you're shooting yourself in the foot subtly already. Instead of forcing me to repeat myself, why don't you go back and read my post more slowly. Also, you haven't the slightest idea what my brain is or isn't capable of. Colour blindness isn't the only disability that these UI changes need to be sympathetic to, those like me with learning difficulties would also like the odd consideration. Something about you wanting to filter npcs (so do so) something about you not wanting space to be ugly (ok so filter the npcs) and...what part of your post did I have to actually respond to again?
Also color blind doesn't mean you can't see color. if someone is Red/Green color blind, then that person can switch one of those colors to blue or something. Whatever. Its customizable for a reason.
>Also, you haven't the slightest idea what my brain is or isn't capable of Whatever, bud. Figure it out yourself then. |
Hati Moonhound
Adherents of Mastemah
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:15:58 -
[1104] - Quote
This^ |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
119
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:21:07 -
[1105] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets.
what do you think about my try? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5795742#post5795742
http://puu.sh/icsIf/7392c05a6f.jpg |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:25:45 -
[1106] - Quote
A product manager for the UI team needs to read Natya's post very carefully, preferably while playing EVE. |
adam Davaham
The UEC Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:26:20 -
[1107] - Quote
Ninja Jiggalo wrote:Whats to come next a monacle as a prerequsit for using an entosis link ? free precription glasses for all players as you will need em to see the new overview icons? more exciting changes like an undocking fee only 100 Aurum
yes i have just made up a load of drivel that no one wants apart from the free prescription glasses .... can i come work for you ccp?
AND PLEASE DONT IMPLIMENT ANY OF THE ABOVE IDEAS!!!
or i fear the playerbase may hunt me down for putting stupid ideas into your heads in the first place
Was just going to say bro, I would love another pair of free prescription glasses. The ones that shade when it gets light out. apart from that, yea. a lot of this wasn't needed, but it's not hindering my ability to play the game. |
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:27:47 -
[1108] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way. But make the NPC ships distinguishable by something other than colour. Colour AND something else fine, but not colour alone. Up/down arrows could work, I'd have to see it in-client to know. Your brain will process color even faster than it processes shape or tries to analyze size of similar shapes. Color is the FIRST thing that should be used to differentiate NPCs so that your brain can filter them out in a pinch. In fact I think if you're not utilizing the already-existing option to color things in your overview based on player/npc, you're doing ithings slightly wrong. Not to say everything now is good and dandy. Just that you're shooting yourself in the foot subtly already.
Exactly, the color recognition, I hated the neocom change to all one color. I was used to aiming for a button of a certian color when i wanted my ship fitting, or my wallet, or market, etc.. then I had to actually pay attention to what order things were in. That took a while to adapt to, but I worked it out since the neocom isn't used as often for me as my overview. The overview,, well, i've voiced my opion on that mess already, no need to rehash it |
Poene Pyre
Hard Knocks Inc. Hard Knocks Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:30:26 -
[1109] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets.
what do you think about my try? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5795742#post5795742
+++++++ this is dank, maybe titan should be supercarrier since it kinda looks like the carrier tag. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
824
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:40:17 -
[1110] - Quote
Lazarus Complex wrote:Exactly, the color recognition, I hated the neocom change to all one color. I was used to aiming for a button of a certian color when i wanted my ship fitting, or my wallet, or market, etc.. then I had to actually pay attention to what order things were in. That took a while to adapt to, but I worked it out since the neocom isn't used as often for me as my overview. The overview,, well, i've voiced my opion on that mess already, no need to rehash it I'm still having trouble with the Neocom. I have found removing a lot of the icons so you only have the minimum helps with the differentiation, but that's just a workaround. The old icons were differentiated by colour AND shape, so they were perfect for me. They may not have been great icons aesthetically, but that didn't really matter in the context.
I feel the same way about player/NPC differentiation. Colour and shape worked well before, colour alone, particularly very slight colour differences, isn't working for me now. I'll find my workarounds, as always. |
|
passic93
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:47:10 -
[1111] - Quote
CCP, plz fix the game back like it was SOV changes SUCK. and all my corp and alliance are in agreement..will not renew this toon if changes aren't back will stop playing. |
Jungleland Roy
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 19:48:26 -
[1112] - Quote
Ok so my feedback
Icons. Bad.
I am astounded that a dev knows they don't look good at 90% scaling but releases them anyway and then is surprised that people are using the 90% scaling. C'mon this is amateur hour stuff.
I always use 90% scaling GÇô my reasons - I play on a laptop and real estate is at a premium. I move around to various locations (social and work reasons) and so I'm always on a smaller screen.
The icons themselves look awful. Someone said it's like the old Asteroid game and that's bang on. It's like they've been designed by someone who has gone off on a tangent driven by their zealous GÇ£designing something new and radicalGÇ¥ thinking. Functionality is key GÇô if they make the playing experience worse they are a crap design. (I also echo other posters feedback that the neocom changes are also poor and a step down in the visual experience)
Getting to used to new stuff is fine and I'm prepared for that but even when done the new icons have too many variants and reduce functionality.
I am however NOT in favour of keeping the option of using the old icons. If that happens we have a two-tier game with everyone(?) using the old ones. So as someone said, you screwed up, take it on the chin and admit it. Roll back these changes to the old icons, get the new ones right and then make the change. (make sure they work at 90% scaling as well).
Making the changes incrementally has also been mentioned by someone and I think thatGÇÖs the way to reduce the GÇ£shockGÇ¥ value of any improved icons. Let's be honest with so many patches nowadays it wouldn't take too long to get them all changed.
Cheers Roy
_if you could fly it before, you can fly it now.-á_
Read the Blog.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
394
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 20:11:52 -
[1113] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:Benito Arias wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote: Im ok with the new ones, and if they can improve them even better, so why "the players dont want"? this game gets a facelifting so far i can see since last patches which was about time i think. So i think the devs play themself EVE or at least the majority of them and i cant believe they dont know what they do, even it looks all fine to me and cant complain.
Besides that i think, related to a statement something like this in here "in the past there were 50k players and now barely 30k". Im a MMORPG fan and allways had a hard time to adapt to this totally different system of leveling and the lack of life,conten,entertainment. Missions cant substitute quest+rewards so starrting playing eve in my case and aproaching it surfaced and with the wrong expectations was the reason why i never played more than a few month. But i allways come back since its another world than the others. In this niche prolly fall a lot of those 20k and the devs working on it to get them into eve and stay. At least thats what i believe whats going on and im prepared for even more "major" changes (ironic) than icons...
Don't mean to be rude, but you obviously have no experience with such aspects of EVE as fast-paced or fleet PvP in hostile environments. These require the interface to be more than 'having a facelift' or 'looking fine'. These require the interface to be military-grade precise and functional above all else. Old in-space and overview icons did provide that to a degree. The new ones ruined that, because they are not nearly as distinguishable from each other as they need to be. Theyre working on that, but tbh the old ones were from ancient times...in 2015 even the worst B-Movies offer better ideas than big red massive crosse which completly blocks the object at distance. Not all player like to play MMORPG for PvP and many posts say theyre okay.
Many posts? Maybe 10% of the total of these posts have been positive. In any sizeable population there are going to be odd balls with unusual tastes, so its not unsurprising that some folk have come out in favor of the icons. On the other hand its readily apparent that the vast majority of folk who have taken the time to respond hate the icons. As for the reason why the icons were relics - it was because they worked and did what they were supposed to do and did not need changing all that time. There are lots things CCP could be working on - fixing items that are not broke is not one of them.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
adam Davaham
The UEC Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 20:17:17 -
[1114] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:All they need is to make all drones x's again. Then anything on your grid that's pointy is a ship. Bigger pointies are bigger ships. It becomes much more manageable this way. But make the NPC ships distinguishable by something other than colour. Colour AND something else fine, but not colour alone. Up/down arrows could work, I'd have to see it in-client to know. Your brain will process color even faster than it processes shape or tries to analyze size of similar shapes. Color is the FIRST thing that should be used to differentiate NPCs so that your brain can filter them out in a pinch. In fact I think if you're not utilizing the already-existing option to color things in your overview based on player/npc, you're doing ithings slightly wrong. Not to say everything now is good and dandy. Just that you're shooting yourself in the foot subtly already. Instead of forcing me to repeat myself, why don't you go back and read my post more slowly. Also, you haven't the slightest idea what my brain is or isn't capable of. Colour blindness isn't the only disability that these UI changes need to be sympathetic to, those like me with learning difficulties would also like the odd consideration. Something about you wanting to filter npcs (so do so) something about you not wanting space to be ugly (ok so filter the npcs) and...what part of your post did I have to actually respond to again? Also color blind doesn't mean you can't see color. if someone is Red/Green color blind, then that person can switch one of those colors to blue or something. Whatever. Its customizable for a reason. >Also, you haven't the slightest idea what my brain is or isn't capable of Whatever, bud. Figure it out yourself then.
I thought you were bang on with your comment. he did not like it though?... There is psychology to design, and you pointed that out. o7
|
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
503
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 20:22:26 -
[1115] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:CCP Surge wrote:We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks Here is the best and most concise report I can do without resorting to excessive graphical explanations c: Reasons why engine-scaling the old icons wasn't so bad:- Crosses and brackets do not have curves, meaning much less apparent blur when scaling.
- Curved icons were mostly circle based, meaning that scaling wasn't so bad either, as it retained the same base shape.
New Icon BENEFITS:- Ability to separate frigate from destroyer and Cruiser from Battlecruiser.
- Noticing Capital ship differences by icon.
- Adding icons to things that previously had none.
New Icon FLAWS:- Scaling is obviously terrible because icons are so detailed now.
- You do not use enough icon space on the side for bigger ship icons and you do not keep consistent with the "upgrading triangle / arrow " theme. The distinction is not enough. Especially not when you start scaling things.
- There are too many icons which barely look different from another. Examples: Batteries. Drones. Containers. One Example to change: put extra icons on batteries elsewhere for better distinction. turret: right. Missile: left. Navigation Ewar: bottom. other Ewar: top.
- You relied too much on half-transparent fills for NPC entities, which is not a good distinction, especially not when scaled. Tiny abstracts like that are an all or nothing thing. A better choice would have been to increase line strength to fill icons more by 1px, either for NPC or player entities, or completely fill one type out. Same with sun and planet distinction. Even at 100% scaling, the rays don't matter. Old: Sun was fully white circle, Planet an empty circle.
- Red-blind people cannot rely on a shape distinction between NPC and player ships any more. The minor transparent fill is not enough.
Design Choice MISTAKES:- You have not been consistent with the themes.
- You put too much detail where it was not needed. Examples: Who needs to know if it was a player or NPC wreck? Who needs to know the exact difference between all those containers? This is what the "type" column is for.
- You do not use enough "fills" in your geometries, and your base shape variety is poor.
- You don't use asymmetry properly and rely too much on (bi-)symmetrical icons.
- You have re-used existing shapes which were a common sight for something completely different that was common too. I don't understand why you have been doing that, when you avoided the uses of crosses and brackets completely.
- There are only two diamond shaped things now, which are carriers and asteroids. This means the difference between containers and batteries and other small square / rectangular things has become too muddy.
- If containers are squares, why does a wreck with loot have not a square on top of it? Why did you even go away from a filled wreck having loot? That was perfect.
- A mobile depot should have more similarity with a storage-type icon. In this case square with horizontal "appendages". Or, when reverting, diamond with appendages.
- Icon association is lacking. Example: Asteroid belts should look like BELTS (horizontal icon emphasis) and not clusters of things.
Development MISTAKES:- You knew the engine scaling limitation and did nothing about it. It would have been better to design for 90% first, and then craft the other 3 sets by hand to remain crisp and avoid blur. If that is not possible, then you needed to check why it wasn't. Is the overview legacy code? Then you should have fixed that first, having more flexibility for the future. I'm not getting tired of posting this poopy little mockup that outsources targeting information and colour tags to the sides of the icon.
- You have not responded to the feedback from months ago with enough information (this is a general problem, by the way). You did not explain to us well enough why certain suggestions or other things cannot be done. You did not provide good enough arguments some things should be kept as planned. You did not talk to us about other obstacles you have to face. The more constructive interaction and knowledge we have from your side, the better we can adapt our suggestions.
Untapped potential of OLD ICONS:Most shapes were bi-symmetrical. A half of Gö+ is Göñ and half of that is Göÿ This allowed for easy memorization, but they also could use the same base icon three times for three different things, as demonstrated. You could even cut the Gö+ Icon in 8 different ways, for a total of 9 symbols of one base shape. Add to that different lengths of the bars. You only used were three different sizes of crosses. If each of those sizes would have been used to it's fullest potential, that would mean you had 27 different possibilities to chose from, excluding the mixes. I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets. I always wondered why you never did that. "Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon." Can I ask about improving opportunities then? It has been 6 weeks :c
Great post. Sums up how I feel about icon changes.
|
Kamahl Daikun
Back To Basics.
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 20:41:43 -
[1116] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:The level of juvenile crap in this thread is unbelievable. EVE players on the OS X platform have (and had for years) serious issues like clients freezing or crashing, and here some brainiacs are "threatening" to unsubscribe because they don't like getting used to a modified set of icons? Go ahead, quit playing EVE if you like, and good riddance.
Some posts in this thread are just straight up whine-posts written by people who hate change. Other posts are actual concerns about the icons.
For example, I don't have too many complaints about the icons but I do hate the icons for PC Ships. With the old icons, I'd look at my Overview and see "Oh a Frigate is locking me". With the new icons, I look at my Overview and see something that looks like a military rank symbol and since it seems like we not only have icons for ship size but also ranks in that weight class, I have to do some kind of reverse lookup to see what the hell the icon is referring to.
Basically, the old ship icons were just based on weight class. Small box? Frigate. Big box? Cruiser. Big bolded box? BC. The new ship icons are adding a level of detail we don't really need from them. I see it's a frigate. If I want to know what kind of Frigate (Standard, Navy, T2, etc), I'll look at the damn name. |
John Euler
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:04:19 -
[1117] - Quote
I know that I am wasting my time to give you any feedback just like the feedback after the mass test, but here it is. The new overview icons are too complex and bring no added value to my gameplay. Instead, I am overly confused and that opinion has been expressed a number of times before me. |
Marsha Mallow
2191
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:08:13 -
[1118] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Details Well said, and thanks for writing this up clearly. I don't agree with all of it - actually the nonship hieroglyphs are great. But I can see why the ship icons are annoying people, and a lack of customisation is a bit poor (esp colour preference).
In future it might be worth setting all significant UI overhaul features as Beta test options on TQ. If need be set it optional at first then default it to live with an option to toggle off. UI changes are long overdue and are appreciated, but with so many changes in progress it's hard to stress test everything and give feedback.
It'd be really nice if you could put an updated blog out about this asap so we don't have the torture of people raging for months as they have over tooltips, the launcher, the map etc. Fair enough, some of the feedback is nerdrage that needs to be filtered out, but portions are legitimate and reasonable.
Solecist Project wrote: See, the issue isn't the rubbing
ISD Ezwal wrote: Nope, no one will get banned for 'rubbing'
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
|
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
182
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:26:40 -
[1119] - Quote
Poene Pyre wrote:darkchild's corpse wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets.
what do you think about my try? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5795742#post5795742 +++++++ this is dank, maybe titan should be supercarrier since it kinda looks like the carrier tag. The issue I have with that is are they taking into account the lock/targeting brackets? cause if not they would look terrasilly.
This is more like what they need to do for ships as has been posted MANY times over:
http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/1505/NoUTVmZ3.png
As well as the "less is more" philosophy, we don't need 5 separate frigate icons etc etc.
All the really have to do is adopt a theme for each main type of icons (ships, NPCs, wrecks/cans, celestial, structure) so that NONE of them would be confused with something of a different type.
I would also like to see numbers on how many separate individual icons that existed for everything before this change, and how many exist now. Though not sure if the old ships count as heavily as they were essentially the same icon with slight variations based on size.
|
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
366
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:38:50 -
[1120] - Quote
@ all the good people who are proposing some ideas to fix the catastrophic new icons : I admire your enthusiasm and all, but there is a very simple solution to have perfectly working icons : let's use the old ones.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
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Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
43
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 21:59:04 -
[1121] - Quote
Kamahl Daikun wrote:Makkuro Tatsu wrote:The level of juvenile crap in this thread is unbelievable. EVE players on the OS X platform have (and had for years) serious issues like clients freezing or crashing, and here some brainiacs are "threatening" to unsubscribe because they don't like getting used to a modified set of icons? Go ahead, quit playing EVE if you like, and good riddance. Some posts in this thread are just straight up whine-posts written by people who hate change.
You guys disgust me. Traitors to the health of your own game. Forum warrior toolbags.
Play the game, outside of empire, and you'll agree with us that the icons make deciding whether or not to take a fight difficult.
In my personal case, nine years of visual/mental cues just got flushed down the drain. It's particularly burdensome for a pre-warp-to-zero player like me.
I'm not saying i want my stealthbomber to fire cruise missiles again, I just want the OPTION to use the old icons.
K |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1722
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 22:13:36 -
[1122] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:CCP Surge wrote:We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks Here is the best and most concise report I can do without resorting to excessive graphical explanations c: Reasons why engine-scaling the old icons wasn't so bad:- Crosses and brackets do not have curves, meaning much less apparent blur when scaling.
- Curved icons were mostly circle based, meaning that scaling wasn't so bad either, as it retained the same base shape.
New Icon BENEFITS:- Ability to separate frigate from destroyer and Cruiser from Battlecruiser.
- Noticing Capital ship differences by icon.
- Adding icons to things that previously had none.
New Icon FLAWS:- Scaling is obviously terrible because icons are so detailed now.
- You do not use enough icon space on the side for bigger ship icons and you do not keep consistent with the "upgrading triangle / arrow " theme. The distinction is not enough. Especially not when you start scaling things.
- There are too many icons which barely look different from another. Examples: Batteries. Drones. Containers. One Example to change: put extra icons on batteries elsewhere for better distinction. turret: right. Missile: left. Navigation Ewar: bottom. other Ewar: top.
- You relied too much on half-transparent fills for NPC entities, which is not a good distinction, especially not when scaled. Tiny abstracts like that are an all or nothing thing. A better choice would have been to increase line strength to fill icons more by 1px, either for NPC or player entities, or completely fill one type out. Same with sun and planet distinction. Even at 100% scaling, the rays don't matter. Old: Sun was fully white circle, Planet an empty circle.
- Red-blind people cannot rely on a shape distinction between NPC and player ships any more. The minor transparent fill is not enough.
Design Choice MISTAKES:- You have not been consistent with the themes.
- You put too much detail where it was not needed. Examples: Who needs to know if it was a player or NPC wreck? Who needs to know the exact difference between all those containers? This is what the "type" column is for.
- You do not use enough "fills" in your geometries, and your base shape variety is poor.
- You don't use asymmetry properly and rely too much on (bi-)symmetrical icons.
- You have re-used existing shapes which were a common sight for something completely different that was common too. I don't understand why you have been doing that, when you avoided the uses of crosses and brackets completely.
- There are only two diamond shaped things now, which are carriers and asteroids. This means the difference between containers and batteries and other small square / rectangular things has become too muddy.
- If containers are squares, why does a wreck with loot have not a square on top of it? Why did you even go away from a filled wreck having loot? That was perfect.
- A mobile depot should have more similarity with a storage-type icon. In this case square with horizontal "appendages". Or, when reverting, diamond with appendages.
- Icon association is lacking. Example: Asteroid belts should look like BELTS (horizontal icon emphasis) and not clusters of things.
Development MISTAKES:- You knew the engine scaling limitation and did nothing about it. It would have been better to design for 90% first, and then craft the other 3 sets by hand to remain crisp and avoid blur. If that is not possible, then you needed to check why it wasn't. Is the overview legacy code? Then you should have fixed that first, having more flexibility for the future. I'm not getting tired of posting this poopy little mockup that outsources targeting information and colour tags to the sides of the icon.
- You have not responded to the feedback from months ago with enough information (this is a general problem, by the way). You did not explain to us well enough why certain suggestions or other things cannot be done. You did not provide good enough arguments some things should be kept as planned. You did not talk to us about other obstacles you have to face. The more constructive interaction and knowledge we have from your side, the better we can adapt our suggestions.
Untapped potential of OLD ICONS:Most shapes were bi-symmetrical. A half of Gö+ is Göñ and half of that is Göÿ This allowed for easy memorization, but they also could use the same base icon three times for three different things, as demonstrated. You could even cut the Gö+ Icon in 8 different ways, for a total of 9 symbols of one base shape. Add to that different lengths of the bars. You only used were three different sizes of crosses. If each of those sizes would have been used to it's fullest potential, that would mean you had 27 different possibilities to chose from, excluding the mixes. I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets. I always wondered why you never did that
Excellent summation, please CCP read this through at least twice.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
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Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 22:16:42 -
[1123] - Quote
Koba Kyogen wrote:You guys disgust me. Traitors to the health of your own game. Forum warrior toolbags. So that's your impotent way of dealing with different opinions? What a splendid, mature approach. |
Danmal
Proioxis Assault Force Exodus.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 22:43:32 -
[1124] - Quote
CCP probably stopped reading and decided to not give a damn some 45 pages ago. And I apologize if I pick up on what must have been said many times before.
The general idea of getting more icon differentiation to distinguish ship classes is not bad. The way it has been implemented is for at least two major reasons:
1. You removed the distinction between NPC and player craft (except for color, which some may have difficulty to distinguish).
2. This is the bigger one. The open brackets were an ideal class of icons because they were not only internally consistent as demarcating ships in space, they were also very different and thus distinguishable from any other class of icons. In order to create greater distinction between ship class icons and provide closed line icons, you increased the similarity of ships in space to virtually every other item in space (such as FW outpost, for example). So to recognize that something in space is a ship rather than some other object has become more rather than less difficult. So whereas before I might have had the problem to distinguish a destroyer from a T3 cruiser, I now have the problem to distinguish a ship from a FW outpost, a container from a customs office, etc.
It is with a sense of resignation that one realizes that the natural tendency of some at CCP is to complicate things and that those who bring the most needed changes do or should actively fight that tendency.
Until then, I will overheat my T8-Monopropellant-Hydrocitro-Gizmogrification-Hydrocarbonator. Surprisingly, all I need to know is that it makes fizzy lemonade. I could have called it fizzy lemonade maker, but I didn't want you to know what it does.
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Miss Understood
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 22:43:35 -
[1125] - Quote
Overview icons look stupid at best, looks like flying farm barns and roofs. Have yet to see any1 in game even pretend icons are good, epic CCP fail, again....... |
Dasheeru
Brothers Incorporated
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 22:45:13 -
[1126] - Quote
I am pretty surprised that everyone is discussing icons but haven't noticed problems with new textures. Playing eve for 7 years, I never entered the forums to post. But it seems now I know why I like EVE the most and what was hurt. I admire that EVE has continued to improve the graphics engine and has bypassed graphics from all other space-related sims I know. So I have a high-end PC and I like watching neat, shiny, high-res ships, shining in the light of alien stars, that's mostly why I still log in. I don't like dirt. I don't like dirt covering Amarr shiny armor. In fact, all Amarr ships now look for me like Minmatar designed (no offense). I really apreciate your packing and graphics work, but ruining the beauty of the game to get the tech to some use isn't a good decision. Also, studying several small and big models for some time, I found that while the base material textures are high-res, dirt map textures seem really low-res, I am pretty sure I can see pixels from the dirtmap. On the edges of the ship, where with antialising the edges were smooth, now the line itself is, I don't know, 'wavy'. Instead of seeing a straight line, I see dots of different color overlapping to form the line. It can be seen on the Zealot's bottom front curves, or the Providence edge near the center. Please, either revert this dust thing, or fix the issue. When I logged in today to fly a few orbits around my station, I found that I am now disgusted with how my Zealot looks. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
158
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:05:41 -
[1127] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Color is the FIRST thing that should be used to differentiate NPCs so that your brain can filter them out in a pinch. In fact I think if you're not utilizing the already-existing option to color things in your overview based on player/npc, you're doing ithings slightly wrong. Not to say everything now is good and dandy. Just that you're shooting yourself in the foot subtly already. My first instinct when seeing the unfamiliar white shapes of neutral NPCs on grid is that my overview has broken itself. If NPCs shared a unique shape (like the old crosses) identifying their brackets on grid wouldn't be an issue. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
294
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:07:22 -
[1128] - Quote
Danmal wrote:The open brackets were an ideal class of icons because they were not only internally consistent as demarcating ships in space, they were also very different and thus distinguishable from any other class of icons. In order to create greater distinction between ship class icons and provide closed line icons, you increased the similarity of ships in space to virtually every other item in space (such as FW outpost, for example). So to recognize that something in space is a ship rather than some other object has become more rather than less difficult. So whereas before I might have had the problem to distinguish a destroyer from a T3 cruiser, I now have the problem to distinguish a ship from a FW outpost, a container from a customs office, etc.
This is probably the bottom line. The longer this goes on the more convinced I am that open square brackets was the best thing about old overview icons. They were so different from every other class of icons that it was instant recognition.
I get that CCP wants to try to make this game look sexier but at the end of the day we probably should be going back to square brackets. |
Eve Castorpe
Steel Fleet Gentlemen's.Club
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:14:19 -
[1129] - Quote
This new Overview updtate seems to have caused the icons on installations in PI to become highlited ALL THE TIME and they just look distrorted, please undo ur changes for the time being or make another patch! |
Marius Joakeim
Joint Shipbuilding Industries Ltd
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:24:56 -
[1130] - Quote
Ok. The whole game has an overall windows 8-like feel. Not necessarily a bad thing, although I did prefer the old HUD and NEOCOM buttons. They were more artistic, but anyways, not abad revamp.
Planetary interaction has a smoother feeling now (it used to show some lagging). I would like to see the ticking timer when doing planetary launches though.
Thank you for giving us new toys to play with. |
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N1N2
THE PIRATE HUNTERS DEM0N HUNTERS
0
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Posted - 2015.06.04 23:38:04 -
[1131] - Quote
The current cap jumping system is awful - the nerf for jump light years.. I can at least understand. The fatigue timer - I do not. Please remove the fatigue timer all together - its making the game horrible. I loved the old icon system - please remove the new one and change back for the old. After 6 years in this game.. I do have to question - why change what was not broken? |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:39:14 -
[1132] - Quote
D'awwwwww so many people said so many nice things to me c: *curtsies*
darkchild's corpse wrote: It's a great example of how DIFFICULT it is to make icons that work under all circumstances. Please do not take the following as me bashing on you, but as constructive critique to your efforts c: I'm sorry for using you as an example to point out why it is not as easy to create icons as some people try to make it.
You only created these icons for 100% scaling, which means some of your smallest ship icons will be impossible to decipher at 90%. Even at 100% scaling the Rookie ship is way too small and the destroyer icons don't deliver. Your capsule looks like a probe, sorry :c Even the old capsule worked perfectly fine. I like the idea that your carrier looks like a giant drone :D but this is where you made another mistake, including all other designs sharing this... you added darker lines which will become even more blurred and hardly distinguishable if you start scaling again. That might work on 100% scale on a pure black background, but any coloured background this is going to be less effective. Even if your icons had a 50% transparency black dropshadow, which is what the live icons seem to have. You decided to do jumps of 4 pixels in size instead of 2, which nobody asked for. I never heard anybody in 6+ years saying, they could not distinguish a frigate from a cruiser or a battleship from a cruiser. So that means the old difference of 2 worked totally fine. You might as well have tried 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 for Frigate, Destroyer, Cruiser, Battlecruiser, Battleship + Capital. But 16 is off limits already and 8 is ... small. Like, really small. The old sizes were 10, 12, 14. With 16 you're cuddling with target brackets big time. The Overview icon frame is 18 or 19 pixels, which explains why 16 pixels is too big. Target brackets! The Destroyer, Battlecruiser and Dreadnought look more like structure icons than actual ships, so that is a bad design choice as well. Titan doesn't really look as imposing or distinguishable as it probably should be. Your NPC icons look too cluttered and blurry. You emphasize brackets as if used for player ships, not the faded crosses that actually indicate "I'm an NPC!" This is going to give red-blind people a really hard time. And now imagine target brackets on top of them? Then they look like a globblewobble of red. The distinction between NPC destroyer / Frigate is pretty much impossible at a glance. There should be a difference between Mining Barges and Industrials. I mean, they're totally different things, right? c: That is what the new icons accomplished at least.
Alright I stop now. No hard feelings, okay? I'm sorry I was nitpicking so hard but you forgot a good number of things in your enthusiasm to help c: It is case and proof that designing such small abstract things is not easy.
Honestly, this is just a sidegrade of the current icons, not an upgrade. So let me talk about both now; The Rookie ship icon should be shuttle, and a rookie ship made to a frigate. Let's be honest, a Rookie ship is still a combat frigate. A shuttle is just a harmless pod in a speedy coat. Another thing is size. Width of Frigates to battleships is IDENTICAL, making the distinction be solely based on icon height and shape. Width of Capital ships in the mockup is only 12. The current live icons at least give 14 width to the Dreadnought, but then do a weird diamond shape for the carrier, and then a 14 height for the Titan. I see less problems with the capital ships on the live icons, than with subcapitals. And all this is not even considering the bottom right of the icon being obstructed by a colour tag, possibly reducing the real icon visibility to half, instead of three quarters in the old icons.
The funny thing is, if you think about what I wrote in my last post, by exploiting more variations of the bi-symmetrical shapes of brackets and crosses... you could get more useful shapes out of the crosses than the brackets, making the crosses the BETTER choice for player ships, and not the brackets. Because player ships would arguably be more important than NPC ones, even in PvE. Crosses also are less in the way of target locks than brackets are. Plus I think they were almost immune to colour-tag clipping.
*rubs her face* I smell a conspiracy of people trying to make me draw my own mockup of icons, right? Especially since I wrote about open possibilities of the old icons. ngruh.
Tao Dolcino wrote:@ all the good people who are proposing some ideas to fix the catastrophic new icons : I admire your enthusiasm and all, but there is a very simple solution to have perfectly working icons : let's use the old ones. Except the old ones were not PERFECT because you could not distinguish Destroyers an Battlecruisers, which is certainly an important point. Functional yes, but not as good as it could be. So not perfect. |
Deacon Dallacort
Pedell and Scorpion Industries Universal Rockstars
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:45:42 -
[1133] - Quote
Having a issue where it requires multiple attempts to start the client from the Launcher in order to start Eve. There is no set amount of attempts and sometimes the launcher must be quit and restarted again to get the game to launch. Once it's launched it runs very well.
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1669
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:52:44 -
[1134] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote: need to say i like the concept
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.04 23:56:21 -
[1135] - Quote
Deacon Dallacort wrote:Having a issue where it requires multiple attempts to start the client from the Launcher in order to start Eve. There is no set amount of attempts and sometimes the launcher must be quit and restarted again to get the game to launch. Once it's launched it runs very well.
There is a separate thread for problem reports vs. feedback on the contents of the patch: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427591&find=unread |
Hamed Pour
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 00:14:46 -
[1136] - Quote
New Icons are horrible, I'd also like the old ones back, or at the very least have the option. I love this game, but am very disappointed is developers that seem to be out of touch with their subscribers.
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Tealeseff
The Dysfunctionals Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2015.06.05 00:25:00 -
[1137] - Quote
More simple?????????? Please not such a drastic change. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
396
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 00:31:11 -
[1138] - Quote
The new names for the microwarp drives makes it looks the mod teircide is being run by a drunk monkey that has been let lose at ccp to beati on the computers. I thought the renaming was supposed to make things more simple and intuitive. In the old days a microwarp was t2, basic t1, experimental or limited. Maybe it was unimaginative but you could understand it. Now they are named screwball names like cold-gas enduring whatever. And why change everything from mulitiples of 10 to 5s? Was the goal just to make everything as confusing as possible for old players and new a like? Sure in time I'll memorize the new versions - but whats the point? Is ccp's new motto - if its not broke, it soon will be? Are there that many underemployed dev's that you feel you just cant find real productive work - that you just must make busy work for them?
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Jager Universalis
Order of the White Rose
0
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Posted - 2015.06.05 00:34:24 -
[1139] - Quote
I don't mind changing the game and making it better but the icons in the overview suck donkey! Really guys, why mess with something that was working in such an important place! They should be changed back and utilize your time making changes elsewhere where it counts! |
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
101
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 00:42:58 -
[1140] - Quote
Carnyx is the new Yncarnx. Bloody hell. |
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Johan Civire
Flux Technologies Inc DeepSpace.
953
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 01:00:20 -
[1141] - Quote
Good patch CCP let them come those change. Its time to change the game. If we keep it the same the game will die, we need to move on. Some glitch here and there in the patch but ho cares. You guys will fixs it the next patch. |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 01:09:26 -
[1142] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:[...]
y u so mean to me
just kidding... actually someone in the german discussion thread said that it's not good if there is just a difference in size. i think it is but made the difference bigger so that it's easier to see the difference. but i think you're right about the scaling thingy.
i've also made another suggestion there: just take the 14x14 brackets and put a different symbol in the middle for each class. in my opinion the difference in size is better but some ppl there seem to like this idea instead. |
Hnom
Laxative Scones
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 01:31:20 -
[1143] - Quote
Thanks CCP for the updates, mostly like them:
-PLEASE allow me to have my Amarr ships clean / pristine as they were. Not as shiny now, no matter how hard my crews work to polish them. -The Punisher came up green in fitting window without a skin applied, not sure what that's all about, have not tried with others.
+Most of the new icons look great. to the haters... No need to complain like a bunch of geriatrics. +The new asteroid icons are a good idea, had me a bit initially but it makes great sense. -Still a bit confused when a red wreck (triangle) appears, those were either criminal players or rats (one will adapt).
Patching and loading was fine on both Mac and Windows. Camera is fine, no issues there.
Hugs a random Dev
Time for some ship washing...
Hnom |
ElDOrito
Poor Old Ornery nOObs BLUE Alliance
0
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Posted - 2015.06.05 01:37:30 -
[1144] - Quote
Good afternoon CCP
While i wholeheartedly support the development of this game, I think the some of the new icons are a step backward. Basically my concern is with both rat icons and wrecks. It is also impossible to differentiate between cruisers and battlecruisers. The only thing that differentiate these two items is a double line for the battle cruisers.
Secondly, wrecks with cargo are extremely difficult to differentiate. A small circle above a group of geometric figures that signify the wreck is almost impossible to see.
I am a senior play (+50) and it is very difficult for me to differentiate when the icons themselves are 8pt font.
I hope these comments are given consideration from CCP and return to the rat/wreck format previously employed. It worked well.
thank you
Eldorito
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HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
151
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 01:37:46 -
[1145] - Quote
I can't help to wonder if the majority of players aren't complaining about the icons simply because they have to relearn them and this gives them a headache similar to those they used to get in highschool math class.
My initial impression was repulsion, fear and "oh **** what am I looking at?!"
I have decided that I need to wait until I am accustomed to the new format in order to make an informed decision and I don't know how anyone can make a balanced assessment of the new system until they have learned and memorized it.
Also it looks like a lot more people are complaining about icons than sov so that's good. |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 01:45:44 -
[1146] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:I don't know how anyone can make a balanced assessment of the new system until they have learned and memorized it.
the new icons are not consistent enough. you can't decide within a split second if there is a jove observation thing in the system or if this is a ship sitting at the gate.
the other thing about the ship icons is: the old icons were not perfect but they already had good potential for improvements. so why changing it to something completely different when there are thousends of players who are already used to the old icons. |
Foobar Barfolo
Cyberdyne C.R. Systems
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 02:19:10 -
[1147] - Quote
Nuke the overview from orbit - it is the only way to be sure!
Also, what happened to escalations and T2 spawns in this latest CF???? |
Rusky Dimpleskins
Industrialists Never Die Aureus Alae
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 02:51:27 -
[1148] - Quote
It may have been provided as feedback already, but I love the clarity of the new icons mostly when pressing Cntrl and F9 together. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
397
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 02:57:14 -
[1149] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:I can't help to wonder if the majority of players aren't complaining about the icons simply because they have to relearn them and this gives them a headache similar to those they used to get in highschool math class.
My initial impression was repulsion, fear and "oh **** what am I looking at?!"
I have decided that I need to wait until I am accustomed to the new format in order to make an informed decision and I don't know how anyone can make a balanced assessment of the new system until they have learned and memorized it.
Also it looks like a lot more people are complaining about icons than sov so that's good.
What good would it be to memorize them since I can barely see them? They blend into the background and they are too small and too similar to each other and on top of that there are too many of them so that any combat makes it look like some one vomited alphabet soup on the screen.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 03:03:18 -
[1150] - Quote
I'm fine with the new icons so far. Complicated, but sufficiently informative that I think they're an improvement. (Naturally there are aesthetic choices I would have made differently, but that will always be the case.)
The new Caracal GǪ dunno. It looked good in the artwork, but actually seeing it moving in space is somehow jarring. Little things. The incomprehensible animation (why do the antennae fold forward?). The beams of light from the wing-tips (how am I even seeing that in a vacuum?). The unbalanced placement of the thrusters with respect to the way the mass could be reasonably be thought to be distributed: it looks like it ought to be tipping forwards every time it accelerates (and sure: there are other ships that look like that too, but why perpetuate it?). And I wasn't a fan of the nose from the start, and still am not. Still, perhaps I'll get used to it after a while.
"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and donGÇÖt belong in Eve Online.
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Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
502
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 03:03:55 -
[1151] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:I can't help to wonder if the majority of players aren't complaining about the icons simply because they have to relearn them and this gives them a headache similar to those they used to get in highschool math class.
My initial impression was repulsion, fear and "oh **** what am I looking at?!"
I have decided that I need to wait until I am accustomed to the new format in order to make an informed decision and I don't know how anyone can make a balanced assessment of the new system until they have learned and memorized it.
Also it looks like a lot more people are complaining about icons than sov so that's good. Memorizing blurry lines is no help.. The differences between some of the icons is not enough to make them visibly different on lower spec'd machines. In "white space" (highsec), npc's on a gate look exactly the same as players, so without having to remove all npc's from your overview, it is guess work as to what is what.
Yes, CCP is very good at diverting attention from important controversial issues by creating new ones.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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My Time
Bunyip Munitions
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 03:53:03 -
[1152] - Quote
CCP i suggest you take all the children back to the kindergarden as they did a terrible jobs with the icons.
I would be ashamed to try and force that down the throat of my customers.
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Xert Trassien
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 03:59:23 -
[1153] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Instead of forcing stuff we dont want on us, How about you design a set of icons including the old ones and let us the paying customers asign what icon we want for ships npcs etc etc. At least that way you guys avoid the flak and we get what we want.
OR
You guys make a set of icons that most player base dont want and force them on us while disregarding any and all feedback.
Oh wait you already made your choice..
History repeats itself again with CCP
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TheSmokingHertog
TALIBAN EXPRESS
314
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 04:36:29 -
[1154] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Porucznik Borewicz wrote:OK, so after an actual elite PVP fleet I have some more feedback regarding the new overview icons / brackets. Apart from the fact that the drones Xes need to come back, because the new icons look just silly and clutter the view anyway, there is one major issue with the new icons - they are unreadable when no standings / background colours are set towards a neutral player you are fighting. Stuff just looks too much the same. And the more things you have on your OV the more you are screwed. The new icons are OK-ish in a way. You could get used to them. We just need a more "at a glance" way to tell the player controlled ships in space. Like a colour maybe. Making the player ships green for instance would help me a lot. And I bet a lot of colour blind people would also welcome the option to change player ships colour. Right now, everything on the OV that is not a waypoint object (stargate, station) has the same colour. The other way would be reverting the old brackets for player ships.
TL;DR: Let me change the player controlled ships icons colour and it will be much better. Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships. We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags. Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness?
Sure :D
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
826
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 05:02:41 -
[1155] - Quote
Good morning!
How about we include some new skills in the next release?
Chamois Leather Operation - Provides a 10% per level reduction in dirt accumulation on Amarrian vessels.
Threat Assessment - Provides a 10% per level reduction in the amount of scaling blur evident on brackets.
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Sullen Bear
Arctic Spirit
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 05:07:09 -
[1156] - Quote
4th day with new icons. They are as terrible as at release. May be more terrible. CCP, how about try EVE PvP? It may be some fun for you and save many of us from your brilliant ideas.
BTW - please, never, NEVER disable old map. New map unacceptable in PvP too. At least system map. |
AeonOfTime
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
92
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 05:38:58 -
[1157] - Quote
I, for one, welcome our new icon overlords. Change is good, it keeps the mind flexible
Sadly with all this talk about icons, very few talk about the new graphics shaders and all the other good stuff that came this release. Among other things, I love the way my Hyperion looks now. There's even less texture distortion visible in the prow of the ship now, and oh boy, the way light reflects off it!
+10 for changes that make me ogle stuff as if I just started up EVE for the first time.
Kudos for the good work! |
Captain Semper
The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
70
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 06:55:23 -
[1158] - Quote
Ok. This is my point.
Old icons
The reason that nobody complains about them - there are no alternative. Do you complain about the sun? And if you have an option to choose other sun with less radiation but different light color (blue for example)? Let's be honest - old icons were less informative then new (wait, keep read). Littile square, medium square (just +few pixels width) and etc.
New icons
I will pass problems with scale or other optical issues because it is technical problem and can be solved easily. New icons much more informative. You do not have to strain your eyes to distinguish cruiser from destroyer.
Problem Old ship icons had one big + If you saw square in overview you instantly understand that this is a player ship. No other icon was not like an icon of the ship. But some icons ships are too similar to the icons of other objects. Industrial ship are very close in shape to a circle. The carrier is too different from the other shapes. I didnt count but ~1/3 ship icons doesnt follow main theme - triangle. Because of this we have mess on our screens that need more time to recognize who is who.
Second problem - NPC. Other shape which is radically different from. It is not enough just to paint a different color and fill icon. Because people are not the same. Someone has vision problems , some not so good to determinate a color.
Solution The best thing and the right decision to allow users to customize the icons. Just give us pool of icons and an option to set any icon to ship type, celestial or other object. It is also a good opportunity to paint icons.
If you for any reason dont want to give us that option so return to 1-st ISIS icons variation with some improvments for NPC icons. But main point is that ship icons should not be like anything else but must stick to their theme. If this arrow - that all vessels in varying degrees should be arrows. It should not be such that some ships have triangle-style icons. Other - rounded and etc. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
374
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 07:16:25 -
[1159] - Quote
Btw CCP, did you consider to hand over icons to players?
You don't even need to code an editor or something, just set some rules like max/min icon size (within the same scale - if they are pixel based I would assume that each icon would need to come in 3 sizes perhaps, to make UI scaling possible), color use etc. and add an option to import/export icons in a format that is accessable with 3rd party tools. And as a QoL feature you could give us a page (like the page for keybinds) to assign icons to ingame objects.
Think about the benefits. No more complaints about ugly icons ever. Each and every player can have the icons they want. Players will come up with their own styles and icon sets and most will share them with friends and bros. And CCP will be praised for listening to the player base, for giving them tools to express their creativity and for modernizing the (sandbox) game by giving players the freedom of choice instead of forcing stuff upon them that many (if not the majority) don't like.
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 07:22:12 -
[1160] - Quote
AeonOfTime wrote:Sadly with all this talk about icons, very few talk about the new graphics shaders and all the other good stuff that came this release. Among other things, I love the way my Hyperion looks now. There's even less texture distortion visible in the prow of the ship now, and oh boy, the way light reflects off it! I can answer that:
The graphic shaders are a bittersweet taste because of all the dirt that came with it. Dirt on ships is stupid. The newly rendered preview icons look like so many ships are stuck with an armor hardener active, with all that golden-ish glow around them. The very Hyperion you named is still a sad relic of old, because back in the days it had 8 turret slots, making the 4x2 socket layout on aft and nose a lot more sensible. Now with only 6 highslots, it looks broken. Model update on the Caracal would be nicer if it wasn't looking so fragile now, which takes away the bulky blocky design the Caldari have. The Cerberus model does not follow the Tech2 ship design philosophy of "Tech2 ships have slight model differences to them." Or I am too blind to see them? The Jackdaw looks horrible, like a twig of a satellite without solar panels. CCP seems to go a very nonsensical, weird way with all their "everything needs to have moving stuff" tendencies. The Jackdaw looks like one of those fragile toys that break when you grip them firmly and the animations (like with all t3 destroyers) bear no meaning to what the mode actually does. Sovereignty. It is too early to tell how it really will work out, so no reason for early praise or naysaying. New wormholes... fine I guess? More systems are always an uncertain thing. In theory more space for more people, but in practice it often means that big entities get even bigger. Sentry rebalance is not fixing the actual problem that goes along with it. Performance decrease and reports of crashes during alt+tab are not helping players appreciate the good things.
...I stop here for a moment and try to think about the REALLY good things that came with this release. Oh yes, the "fit" button when looking at a fit is handy, and Kronos police skin is nice, although I am not sure about the others. The police skin is completely out of the way of regular paintings, but I do have a real problem with skins and tech1 / tech2 variance. The Ardishapur skins have the same exact colour scheme as Viziam for example, and Viziam is solely reserved for Amarr tech2 ships. That is only one of many. This is probably becoming less of an issue when all tech2 hulls have a distinct visual difference to their tech1 counterpart, more than they had before. For example, Stealth Bombers. But looking at the Caracal and the Cerberus, my hopes go down that this is still a goal that would be pursued.
What was the question again? oh yes, why do people complain so much... well, anyone who cannot even log in, has the benefit of not even seeing the bad things. And eve is a game that could as well be called "Overview online" and if you change something so crucial like overview icons, which are something that almost everybody has to deal with so often... it is hard to enjoy the other good things.
Edit:
Myriad Blaze wrote:Btw CCP, did you consider to hand over icons to players? You don't even need to code an editor or something, just set some rules like max/min icon size I will not lift a finger if I'm not getting a reward for it. I'm here to play a game, not do the work for developers for free. Milking playerbase efforts without rewards is just abuse of good will. |
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dinotopija
Vubi Bubi
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 07:48:09 -
[1161] - Quote
Ican take all most everthing with this petch but icons of npc sucks realy.Or wreck .Realy,after all this years now u find it change?I WANT IT BACK .
thks |
Astatine Nobelium
Nobelium Mining
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 08:42:05 -
[1162] - Quote
shmeade wrote:A lot of people I see are complaining of their client lagging out horribly. The old icons were better...wayyy better. and when are you guys going to de-contaminate that station door?
Icons aside, there terrible btw, what's with the lag now, everythings slow ? Gate jumping, entering a station, even the planetary map ?
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 08:45:25 -
[1163] - Quote
Whoopsie I missed that! Sorry.
darkchild's corpse wrote:actually someone in the german discussion thread said that it's not good if there is just a difference in size. i think it is but made the difference bigger so that it's easier to see the difference. but i think you're right about the scaling thingy.
i've also made another suggestion there: just take the 14x14 brackets and put a different symbol in the middle for each class. in my opinion the difference in size is better but some ppl there seem to like this idea instead. The person in the german forums (you can link it if you want, I can read german) has forgotten one tiny little thing there: Less is more when space is an issue. Again, I challenge the long-lived players here to tell me they had difficulties distinguishing frigates from cruisers or battleships from cruisers. I never heard this to be an issue, especially when reading this topic. But I can be proven wrong if there is enough evidence for it. The only issue back then was the impossibility to see destroyers from frigates, and battlecruisers from cruisers. Therefore, you don't need to make the difference bigger, if the difference is big enough already. If you do, then you repeat the same mistake that has been done with the new icons: Don't design yourself into a corner, especially not by making changes that are not required. Fixing issues first is the imperative. A sidegrade is not an upgrade.
The different symbol in the middle of brackets you are suggesting needs to follow bi-symmetry again and the symbols inside need to be different enough from each other again, without crowding it up too much. You have to take into account the colour tag like bounty, standing, etc. when designing those, which means that symbol WILL partly be obstructed.
Designing icons is hard c: |
AnSky
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 09:06:53 -
[1164] - Quote
So what is the ETA on reverting to old icon system??
anybody??
60 pages not enough to you??
You need Dostoievsky up here to write some 2678 pages more? |
Lahnius
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 09:13:20 -
[1165] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:something to consider ...
the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".
the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.
the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.
multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.
introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.
proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.
multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.
this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.
yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.
what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.
... this original post only took into consideration the factors surrounding a prime human candidate. i failed to include additional obstacles:
1. age
2. eyeglasses
3. disability
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darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 09:17:32 -
[1166] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Therefore, you don't need to make the difference bigger, if the difference is big enough already.
yes, i already got that after your first feedback. i was just trying to take the feedback into account, that i got so far. but in general it's as i said: my icons aren't perfect at all. but i was trying to show that ccp could simply improve the old icons, wich were consistent and everybody was used to, instead of creating something completely different. i thought doing it visually would be more helpful than all these "mimimi, the devs are ****" posts.
Natya Mebelle wrote: The different symbol in the middle of brackets you are suggesting needs to follow bi-symmetry again and the symbols inside need to be different enough from each other again, without crowding it up too much. You have to take into account the colour tag like bounty, standing, etc. when designing those, which means that symbol WILL partly be obstructed. And if you ONLY make 14x14 size brackets, then I bet the majority of people will say "no." Me included.
i continued playing around in photoshop yesterday and in 14x14 there is not enough space in the middle to place the difference there. so i tried placing a little letter in the top left corner and brackets in the other corners. for destroyers or battlecruisers i put a little plus next to the letter. so then it was S,S+,M,M+,L,C,D,T. the letter had no anti aliasing and was well readable even if it was scaled. so i guess this would work but it doesn't look very nice. specially with the plus.
then i tried something with a little triangle in the top left corner followed by diagonal lines. the more lines, the bigger the ship. and again, there was not enough space. then i did a little triangle in each corner wich just get bigger for bigger ships (s,m,l,xl) and added a dot in the center for destroyer and battlecruisers. then i tried the same with brackets instead of triangles and this was finally what i would consider a good solution to this. it follows a sheme that all of us know, it doesn't care about a colortag, it has good scalability and is small enough. maybe i will post some images when i'm at my desktop again.
i'm not trying to do CCP's work here, i'm just trying to give some usable feedback that makes sense because in general i'm really open to new stuff but these new brackets are cutting down the playability of the game (specially for PVP) in my opinion and it's important for me to do something about it.
unfortunately it looks like ccp isn't even reading here anymore. |
Xela Kcaneoh
The Pirates Of Orion
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 09:44:48 -
[1167] - Quote
Eve Online Launcher wrote:Carnyx has been successfully deployed on June 2 - Feedback is welcome! FEEDBACK: I suggest you halt the 6-week update schedule. It was a terrible idea, and I still hate it every time. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 10:40:04 -
[1168] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:yes, i already got that after your first feedback. i was just trying to take the feedback into account, that i got so far. I'm not bashing on you, don't worry c: Please don't ever think that. The reason why I give seemingly more feedback to you than to CCP is, because you're apparently not in the design business, which is why I want you to understand the ins and outs and the important differences and how many things there are to consider c:
darkchild's corpse wrote:i continued playing around in photoshop yesterday and in 14x14 there is not enough space in the middle to place the difference there. so i tried placing a little letter in the top left corner and brackets in the other corners. for destroyers or battlecruisers i put a little plus next to the letter. Well, if you only rely on 14x14, then of course we need a mandatory extra other than the bracket to know what ships we're actually seeing. Now, in terms of using shapes, this might be considered a step backwards by some, but I bear with you for the moment to give you another example: Why do you rely on letters with a + for intermediate sizes? Instead, you could simply use extra shapes on the top left corner, and those shapes can be based on the 9 variations of a + that I mentioned earlier, or other abstracts of parts of a 2x2 cube attached one pixel away on the inner side of the upper left bracket.
But let me get back to icon real estate: Centered in the frame, a 14x14 sized bracket with 1px thickness while adding a 9x9 tag on the bottom right which as a 1px overlap to the borders, and with 1px spacing between the top left bracket and whatever else you add then, it means you have 5x5 hard limit to work with, while hitting the very center of the icon. So for legibility reasons, it will boil down to 3x3 or 4x4. Rather 3x3 if we're honest. That is your workspace for distinction with this solution. It doesn't get any better than that. But any icon optimized for a 3x3 or 4x4 shape, is likely completely destroyed when you have to subtract one pixel in size, which is likely going to happen when scaling down, except we risk to keep it exactly the same size and simple nudge the brackets closer together by 1px and also eat up that extra space towards the center we've left free intentionally.
darkchild's corpse wrote:then i tried something with a little triangle in the top left corner followed by diagonal lines. the more lines, the bigger the ship. and again, there was not enough space. then i did a little triangle in each corner wich just get bigger for bigger ships (s,m,l,xl) and added a dot in the center for destroyer and battlecruisers. then i tried the same with brackets instead of triangles and this was finally what i would consider a good solution to this. it follows a sheme that all of us know, it doesn't care about a colortag, it has good scalability and is small enough. maybe i will post some images when i'm at my desktop again. Mostly what I said above and I would need to see that because in my head, the dot is not only too close to the tag, but also needs to be of significant size to be visible. And at that point, we're conflicting with structure icons again.
Which reminds me, if you stick with 14x14 brackets, what are you going to do with industrials, barges, Freighters, shuttles, etc? Just saying c:
darkchild's corpse wrote:i'm not trying to do CCP's work here, i'm just trying to give some usable feedback that makes sense because in general i'm really open to new stuff but these new brackets are cutting down the playability of the game (specially for PVP) in my opinion and it's important for me to do something about it. I am curious if you have read the previous sisi feedback topics on the icons. If not, you might want to look at them.
And again, I want to make sure that you do not think I'm devaluing your efforts or bashing on your attempts c: You seem to be genuinely interested and wanting to try something out, so I rather respond to you than that other mockup that was based on the new icons, which is barely any improvement at all.
The reason why I have not brought my own set of high quality mockups is... because it would be work. I'm not doing things half-hearted, so when I sit down to something, I'm doing it all and make it all work on a professional level. So the reasons why I don't do that is simple: it is work, and I'm not getting paid for my efforts. It does not fill my little belly and does not pay my bills. If CCP wants to reward designers for good effort and final prizes individually? I'm game. But if you read my previous posts, you probably get a good idea how my goals would look like IF I sit down to design them in the OLD way c: I still think they should have also changed how the overview works first, before bringing in new icons. There would be so much more freedom of design and visibility if we can put the tags AND the target stuff OUT of the icon frame WITHOUT needing more vertical space.
Now, I've received a few private mails and chat messages along these lines, if I'm a CCP employee or if I would want to work for them. Well I'm not employed by CCP. Would I be willing to work for them? Maybe, sure. Do I know the hours of overtime, the lack of sleep, and the hardships that come along with producing and maintaining a video game? I do. Being part of a video game company is a the thrilling rollercoaster combination of the best time of your life mixed with your worst nightmares and highest stress levels. Squared. Without preparation, it will be a death by a thousand paper cuts. Community moderators even have it worse. They cannot decide to retreat back to their workspace. Their work IS the forum.
darkchild's corpse wrote:unfortunately it looks like ccp isn't even reading here anymore Only because they are not posting does not mean they are not reading. You would be surprised c: |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:03:06 -
[1169] - Quote
@ natya: i know that you're not bashing and i also know that i asked for your opinion on my first try. but i really wasn't expecting that much feedback ;) http://i.imgur.com/xIpQUFU.png and again: i'm not trying to do CCP's work here. i'm ok with the fact that i'm not a UI designer and my designs might have problems. all i want to do is making a point: we need more consistense for the icons.
and btw: even if i'm not a designer this is consuming my free time as well. coding killboard and all the other 3rd party applications for eve consumes the time of every developer who is involved and they neither get a monetizable reward. i think it's unfortunate if you have experience and knowledge to do some really good mockups and don't want to do it but noone can force you and until now, noone asked you :P
and other problems like target brackets and how the overview works are there, yes, but that doesn't mean that CCP's can't change it. i agree with natya that it should've been done before the icon changes. and even if the overview code is messy and old. i'm a developer and know the pain of working with old messy code. and sometimes there is even no way around rewriting it completely. but that shouldn't be an excuse for not doing it. i'm not saying that this is done in 6 weeks and that it has to be done now but... you know... soon(tm) if noone can figure out icons that fit into the current overview. |
Arch-Magus Mephisto
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:09:39 -
[1170] - Quote
Three days now. Please tell me when I log in the ghastly target icons in the overview are now fixed. You must do this thing. It's awful.
Simpler is sometimes better.
Very Small
Small
Kinda Medium
Medium
Big
It's real Big
Holy Crap! It's Huge!
This is a simple but effective breakdown of what it should be. The icons in question should clearly tell you this. Not confuse you as it has since the patch went active. |
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Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
121
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:13:15 -
[1171] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:
|
ARMED1
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:13:35 -
[1172] - Quote
Horrible patch...
Game is slow and I run on a fast machine & net. Much slower and more glitchy than pre-patch.
Caracal looks like a stomped on male member now...
New icons are a tremendous fail and they all run together. It is like Monopoly game pieces came to roost in my overview. DO NOT PASS GO AND DO NOT COLLECT $200 (Or the salary for whoever made this icon change).
Hmmm what else - oh yeah did I say the game is more glitchy now, slower and the icons are awful?
On top of that OP Jackdaw is out now YAY - whilst the other D3s have been previously nerfed. Way to go CCP wonderful job.
MWDs have new names - so what - who cares - at least it makes sense when you meta up now.
Oh but the new shaders look great and we can now see the dirt on our ships even better. Wait - maybe the extra mass of the dirt is what causes the new lag! |
GinBar
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:16:53 -
[1173] - Quote
Someone already posted http://i.imgur.com/xIpQUFU.png, simple, neat, nothing more nothing less. PERFECT |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:17:20 -
[1174] - Quote
darkchild's corpse wrote:@ natya: i know that you're not bashing and i also know that i asked for your opinion on my first try. but i really wasn't expecting that much feedback ;) http://i.imgur.com/xIpQUFU.png Well, that's what I do :D
Two things before I let others give opinion on this first, because I'm out of time writing for most of the day now.
First: http://i.imgur.com/aqTViHA.png . I'm still curious what you want to do with freighters, industrials, barges, etc.
Second: 90% scale is reducing all icons by 2px in total size, so I was accurate with my estimate of 1pixel loss in the corner. A 14x14 becomes 12x12. Good luck c:
So in short, I don't think this is going to cut it when you consider other things. It MIGHT look good at first glance. But... you know. It is different when you have to take EVERYTHING else into consideration WHILE playing the game, not just looking at a standalone excerpt.
darkchild's corpse wrote:i think it's unfortunate if you have experience and knowledge to do some really good mockups and don't want to do it but noone can force you and until now, noone asked you :P Let me put it this way... I've written more than 30.000 characters of concise information like that "fact" post I did shortly ago, while adding 60 pictures just as starmap feedback. And I was not even done. I'm in the works to restructure the opportunities and rework the entire new player experience from the ground up, while releasing a "damage control" guide for new players shortly. Only when that is done, and I still feel the icons, I MIGHT make a complete mockup. I mean, if I have any sanity left at that point c: That is why I said I'm already too invested without getting anything for it. |
Drake Barski
Someone Else's Problem Circle-Of-Two
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:18:12 -
[1175] - Quote
I waited a few days before replying to ensure the initial shell shock had worn off and I could give a real and genuine feedback response. Here is that response.
I like the battleship icon because it is easily discernible from the others, as well as mining & industry ships like exhumers & freighters. Cruisers are...okay, I guess. I absolutely hate the frigate & destroyer icons - they are too similar. Perhaps something can be done to tweak this a little...? I had the idea a long time ago that perhaps each type of ship could be represented by its own icon, and now wish I had mentioned it.
Graphically, the stargate icon is awful. It looks like someone just pulled up the trash bin of their child's science fair project made with clipart. The jump bridge icon is not good either - it is very similar to the station icon. Twice I have jumped back to the station instead of going through the bridge as I had intended. Please change that icon so that it is unique.
Speaking of unique, I also like both the sun & corpse icons. It's kind of satisfying to see so many little person-shaped icons passing me on the overview, especially after a large fight has occurred. |
CAPTAIN CRIMSON HAWK
SEVEN OF NINE INC.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:20:01 -
[1176] - Quote
New icons are ok, I like the attempt. That being said, the old icons worked really well for sleepers. I would like the option to fall back to the old ones for them at least.
I do like having a way to identify at a glace the class of ships, very much a step in the right direction. |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:20:38 -
[1177] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:24h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait. 46h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, hmm maybe do a big cleaning of my appartment while i wait.
70h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its friday so time to drown my sorrow and fall asleep crying while watching old eve movies and remembering the good old days when i could play eve.
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Quonne
Bad Vibe
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:22:57 -
[1178] - Quote
Pestily wrote:The icons really are ridiculous and childish looking. Last night in a fleet of 40 ish we all dropped drones and it was like a snow storm, we couldn't see anything on grid so brackets off and still couldn't . GIV E US TH E OPTI ON OF TA KING THE ICO NS OF F OR RE VER TING BA CK T O TH E OL D PRO ON ES PLE ASE. GET MY POINT ?? If it took you more than a server tick to read it .. your dead ..
Good way of looking at it.. says it all.. |
Astro Agnon
Synapse. Diplomatic Immunity.
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:27:36 -
[1179] - Quote
I do not post much (read the forums yes), so here is my 2isk worth
I am with the majority of players concnering the new icons. They really are hard to use. Yes, I know change is hard at times, I am an advocate of change. However, in this case, perhaps this change was not so good.
Whenever I play, especially PVE, I ALWAYS target the smaller ships first, then work my way up (I like to get rid of the nibblers as I call them, lol, the ones that slowly wear you down, but in large numbers the damage they put out can accumulate quickly). That way all I am left with is usallly BS to kill. Now it is very hard to distinguish between a BS and a BC.
How about the ability to "choose" which icon set we want? New or old?
Also, as another player posted, please let us keep the old map!!!! |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:29:45 -
[1180] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I'm still curious what you want to do with freighters, industrials, barges, etc. if you go for the top row, simply do what they did with the old icons: shrink them vertically. in my opinion we don't need to have that many different icons for industrial ships in general. maybe one for mining ships and one for hauling ships. in my opinion the icons should make the decision to run or to fight easier. i don't run from industrial ships :D
Natya Mebelle wrote:Second: 90% scale is reducing all icons by 2px in total size, so I was accurate with my estimate of 1pixel loss in the corner. A 14x14 becomes 12x12. Good luck c: if i scale these icons down in my browser or in photoshop, they still look ok and not messed up. so i don't understand the problem here. but i guess thatswhy i'm not the designer here^^
Natya Mebelle wrote: So in short, I don't think this is going to cut it when you consider other things. It MIGHT look good at first glance. But... you know. It is different when you have to take EVERYTHING else into consideration WHILE playing the game, not just looking at a standalone excerpt.
i play the game since years and i know what i personally would expect. and this is what i create my suggestions based on. unfortunately i can't simply put the icons into the game to test them. CCP... y u no give me source code? :D
Natya Mebelle wrote: Let me put it this way... I've written more than 30.000 characters of concise information like that "fact" post I did shortly ago, while adding 60 pictures just as starmap feedback. And I was not even done. I'm in the works to restructure the opportunities and rework the entire new player experience from the ground up, while releasing a "damage control" guide for new players shortly. Only when that is done, and I still feel the icons, I MIGHT make a complete mockup. I mean, if I have any sanity left at that point c: That is why I said I'm already too invested without getting anything for it.
alright, didn't knew that... fair enough |
|
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:32:58 -
[1181] - Quote
Eh. Nolstalgia.
http://i.imgur.com/kObXXKO.png |
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:36:51 -
[1182] - Quote
I have not seen different between BC and BS icons. Five picsels is not enough difference. You must make BS and capital icons BIGGER than now. |
ARMED1
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:39:06 -
[1183] - Quote
Astro Agnon wrote:I Also, as another player posted, please let us keep the old map!!!!
God the new map! While not actually part of this patch I must say I agree.
While it is in a few ways nice - for example it is visually stunning and can make some evaluation easier. Aside from that it is not so great. And to think of scanning with it? Blah just blah.
I have tried it for scanning and it is damn near unusable. I am sure CCP will not remove it since they have spent considerable time and effort (money) on developing it.
My suggestion? Take some of the revenue from the overpriced poster set and use it to pay someone to continue "fixing" the new map.
It has a long way to go.
Another suggestion? Maybe just quit screwing with all these "little things" that arent really broken.
Do we need a new map, new icons, dirt on our ships? Maybe it does make for a more immersive experience in some ways.
But I think there are other bigger things that CCP can do to improve the game first.
This new uptempo schedule of expansions is nice - but we dont need junk just for the sake of CCP being able to claim they added stuff with the latest patch.
Hey CCP - its quality over quantity that we want. |
Volery Makanen
Duck Hunters Flex Point
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:47:06 -
[1184] - Quote
CCP this time you lose. return back to the old icons. |
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:49:51 -
[1185] - Quote
I want my old icons back , i do not think ccp actually plays this game , you can tell that with all the crap they just keep developing for its player base , you slowly killing the game one bit at a time. so ccp tell me how we quickly tell the Difference between sizes of ships oh wait we cannot, you no how have memorized over 50+ different icons , ccp when will u realize you alienating your player base and soon its gameover. |
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
470
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:50:08 -
[1186] - Quote
Feedback - (Other then the bloody icons) The new skin on the Rhea at low settings looks like its diseased. (As in not good diseased.)
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
117
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 11:52:40 -
[1187] - Quote
Yea pls old icons back. It is obviously that we want them
Instead of dealing with something that does not work at all - new icons
why you don't deal with the fitting mechanics?
For example to fit a ship you must have all modules on one place in the hangar right? Why don't you make when you try to fit a ship the client to start "looking" for the modules in the station containers which can be named High slot, Med slot, Low slot, Rigs? This will be more useful then then some stupid triangles icons |
Ereilian
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
96
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 12:17:51 -
[1188] - Quote
Another day, another set of ignored posts by CCCP. Guys face facts they do not care, and are ignoring feedback so they can plow ahead with next months release of garbage they laughingly call a Sov update.
Welcome back to pre Incarna, when the only thing CCCP want is your money in their bank account. Opinions, ideas, comments and feedback are not welcome. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
378
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 12:36:17 -
[1189] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: [...] so I rather respond to you than that other mockup that was based on the new icons, which is barely any improvement at all. I assume that would be mine.
While I think my idea for alterations to the current icons for capital ships would be an improvement, I would agree that my icons for subcaps aren't that good. I tried to find improvements to the current subcap icons but ultimately learned, that a triangle is not well suited as a basic pattern under the given limitations and considering the number of variations needed. A square simply gives a ton more possibilities as can be seen in the approach by darkchild's corpse.
I'm tempted to draw another mockup, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort (unless CCP decides to make some kind of a contest asking players to submit suggestions or decides to make it possible to use customized icons).
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
373
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:03:17 -
[1190] - Quote
Yes, that would have been a great idea : a contest for the new icons, with some nice prizes for the fun, and most importantly a poll for the players to choose the winners.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:11:14 -
[1191] - Quote
Like the new module iteration. Much variety, and seen some nice surprises in the loot tables too...
Still haven't flown into an unknown wormhole.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1508
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:13:26 -
[1192] - Quote
Cynos still have the same icon as landmark or monument beacons? Really? Fantastic...
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
|
Cowl Sable
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:22:23 -
[1193] - Quote
I think CCP sat down one day and had a meeting to discuss the best way to loose more subscribers.... and they came up with 'hey I know...lets fix things that aren't already broken.... 'what about changing the overview to make it really pointless and give it a 1980's pixel feel....we could mess up all the icons... That will really get our players goat up...all going well we will be successful in loosing players'
Great job (sarcasm).... Idiotic.....
Isn't it about time they concentrated on generating interesting storylines and more interactive playability instead of concentrating all their multiple resources on 'oooooww... lets all work on little icons.... |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
736
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:22:52 -
[1194] - Quote
I have given it a few days, here is feedback after i calmed down.
TL:DR - rat icons and pvp icons are bad, wreck,loot, deoployable icons are bad, rest I dont care about, give us old icons back and ability to create our own icons.
Ok, so:
1) Stargates, misc icons, POS icons. Yeah those are whatever - no different to what we had before, i dont really care about those icons. Wormhole icon looks cool I suppose, stargate icon is meh, too bulky.
2) for PvE, rats are too similar. I am having trouble telling apart battleships from cruisers. A big fat cross for battleship rats is much much easier to spot at a glance then a slightly bigger triangle in a sea of triangles. Maybe if you make the triangle a lot bigger and fatter...and add a cross to it...
3) Wrecks, containers, depots, tractor units - barely identifiable, incredibly difficult to sort our in a cluttered battlefield. Old icons were also much better then the new ones.
3) for PvP, new icons are too detailed and small, its just not working. I constantly have to mouse over the icon to see what ship it is, in the middle of combat. All these triangles look the same. I dont really have the time to look closely in a fluid pvp situation, does that triangle have a tiny dot over it, or a line somewhere? And a frigate is the same thing as a destroyer for me, I dont need different triangles to ell them apart. Ditto with haulers. Basically, now I rely on overview Type column to tell me if its a frigate or whatever. Im sorry but tiny similar-looking triangles are just not intuitive, and honestly, unnecessary.
Basically, I dont think we need an icon for each different class of ship. I think a transparent bracket like we had before, of different sizes, was way more useful, less clutter. if you wanted to rejiggle these icons, all you had to do was change the size of them. You know there is nothing wrong with making a capital icon 20 times bigger then everything else, if its a transparent square, who cares.
The way I see it, less is more with icons, same as with EVE map. You dont NEED to make these icons ultra-detailed or whatever - on the contrary, less is more, there needs to be as few icons as possible, and they should be as uniform as possible.
Old system had it nailed pretty well. All PvP ships were a single type of TRANSPARENT square bracket, just different size. And the transparent field could be colored by standings or whatever. Perfect.
All rat icons were a DIFFERENT visually distinct type of icon, a cross, so you could at a glance tell if there were pvp hostiles in a site with you while you were ratting. And by looking at the crosses, i could tell at a glance which was battleship, and which was a cruiser. It was a very good system.
Wreck icons were also good and thought through. White of full, grey for opened, different colors, transparent for empty. Easy to tell at a glance which is which.
Trouble started when you guys started to introduce deployables, thats when it started to clutter the screen. Those needed change. Those were hard to tell apart from each other and to sort our a tractor amid a sea of wrecks was hard, visually. Not this was no reason to go ahead and bork a completely working system of icons otherwise. I think it shows that different people we involved with icon creation from this point on, they just dont fit.
Anyhow, I would strongly suggest the following:
Let the players define their own icons and brackets. Give us a default set, and give us an option to load our own custom icon set. I know that I would tweak the icons, go back to old rat crosses, go back to old pvp square brackets, and I would make my own icons for deployables and wrecks, i dont think you guys can make those right so they dont clutter. Sorry. |
Pavel Klucov
Bohemian Veterans Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:24:53 -
[1195] - Quote
Extremely ugly, confusing overview. Please let players choose between old and new version. |
Draleth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:26:45 -
[1196] - Quote
Captain Pada wrote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/ui-modernization-icon-strategy/
These icons were much better. Indeed. Clear role and class distinctions, and an annotation that doesn't get in the way to differentiate NPCs. Compare the latest icons vs. the earlier concept compared against the originals. See also that alternative on-grid.
Natya Mebelle wrote:Usability is more important than looks. Sadly, this mantra seems to be forgotten more and more each passing year, on a global scale. A thousand times this. Simple is better than complex, complex is better than complicated. The new map crashes more often than not for me.
CCP Claymore wrote:All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. Isn't that what SISI is for? To test things out without impacting the overall user base?
CCP Claymore wrote:We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. Then why release a known defective update? Who "pushed the button", so to speak, on releasing something that was 100% guaranteed to anger and frustrate a large portion of players, with no option to fall back on the original icon assets? Change is hard, of course, and gamers are fickle mistresses, but compared to the previous attempt linked above the new icons are nearly unreadable, and abysmally confusing, with too many icons that are visually indistinct. The older proposal, on the other hand, is still reasonably distinct at 50% scale.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:This is the second iteration of the icons, the first was put on sisi pushed on us and tested then rolled back due to player feed back and redone. Are the links above the ones tested and rejected before? I suspect some may change their tune about it after seeing V2. |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
505
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:35:27 -
[1197] - Quote
ARMED1 wrote:
Do we need a new map, new icons, dirt on our ships? Maybe it does make for a more immersive experience in some ways.
But I think there are other bigger things that CCP can do to improve the game first.
This new uptempo schedule of expansions is nice - but we dont need junk just for the sake of CCP being able to claim they added stuff with the latest patch.
Hey CCP - its quality over quantity that we want.
I wouldn't really care if all my ships were pink with purple dots -The only immersion that is important for me is finding content. The new icons, a map that just doesn't cut it and dirty ships don't make that any easier, so less immersion for basic game play.
Want to fix the new map? Set the old map to window mode (best part of the new map), add the new maps universe view, with the old maps search indicators (like numbers in system, kills ph, etc) leave the system view as is in the old map (it just works) for scanning. Done.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Draleth
Aliastra Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:37:06 -
[1198] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:The 90% scaling problem is engine-level. Specifically our UI renderer doesn't support any texture filtering or anti-aliasing, which makes any non-100% scale texture look pretty bad across the UI. It's particularly blatant when scaling single-pixel wide strokes as in the new icons.
And unfortunately re-writing the UI renderer, or bolting on some AA tech is just an item that hasn't made it to the top of the engine team's priority list. But we're aware of the issue. Then it seems updating the renderer should have been a higher priority than updating the icons that would be guaranteed to break 90% scaling. Actual problem vs. nice-to-have. Vector UIs with proper subpixel hinting resolves this issue rather handily. Since fonts are antialiased in the UI, why not follow the modern trend of using icon fonts?
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? Even on large displays (my main monitor is 2560x1440) the UI is cluttered enough with various highly important windows that the only way to have all the windows up while still having the in-space brackets be useful is to reduce the UI scale. Interestingly, to compensate for smaller click targets, I also increase the menu font size to the maximum and have re-bound the radial menu to left click with zero delay. (This makes many actions more of a swipe than a click.) There are enough windows that I also use the tab-based window stacking, and still have difficulty getting the UI out of my way.
CCP Surge wrote:We've taken seriously the calls to include a "use classic bracket icons" option. Originally we thought having two sets of icons in the client might just cause confusion and miscommunication among players, and tough learning/teaching decisions for newbros as well as vets welcoming them in. However these concerns might be overblown, especially in regards to little bracket icons. In any case its definitely a debate worth having. Multiple icon packs would alleviate the pushback from making changes like this unilaterally. You could also optionally tie it into the existing "active ship theme" as each in-game military power would potentially have their own icon sets.
CCP Surge wrote:Hey, thanks for sharing your experience. And keeping in mind color blindness :) I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships. The little superscript crosses in the screenshots I linked earlier were quite visually sufficient to distinguish NPC from non, while preserving the ship class and purpose distinctions.
CCP Surge wrote:We also color hostile NPCs red by default, but we don't allow players to change this, or set any color for the icons themselves besides background and colortags.
Anyone else think a custom "icon color" would be a good option to expose to aid in situational awareness? This would be an excellent feature, with custom colors for things like hostile vs. neutral NPCs, and basically any of the player state flags (hostile, neutral, corp/alliance, fleet, etc.), and customization would also allow those with colour vision issues to correct for them. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
736
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:44:31 -
[1199] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Here is the best and most concise report I can do without resorting to excessive graphical explanations c: Reasons why engine-scaling the old icons wasn't so bad:- Crosses and brackets do not have curves, meaning much less apparent blur when scaling.
- Curved icons were mostly circle based, meaning that scaling wasn't so bad either, as it retained the same base shape.
New Icon BENEFITS:- Ability to separate frigate from destroyer and Cruiser from Battlecruiser.
- Noticing Capital ship differences by icon.
- Adding icons to things that previously had none.
New Icon FLAWS:- Scaling is obviously terrible because icons are so detailed now.
- You do not use enough icon space on the side for bigger ship icons and you do not keep consistent with the "upgrading triangle / arrow " theme. The distinction is not enough. Especially not when you start scaling things.
- There are too many icons which barely look different from another. Examples: Batteries. Drones. Containers. One Example to change: put extra icons on batteries elsewhere for better distinction. turret: right. Missile: left. Navigation Ewar: bottom. other Ewar: top.
- You relied too much on half-transparent fills for NPC entities, which is not a good distinction, especially not when scaled. Tiny abstracts like that are an all or nothing thing. A better choice would have been to increase line strength to fill icons more by 1px, either for NPC or player entities, or completely fill one type out. Same with sun and planet distinction. Even at 100% scaling, the rays don't matter. Old: Sun was fully white circle, Planet an empty circle.
- Red-blind people cannot rely on a shape distinction between NPC and player ships any more. The minor transparent fill is not enough.
Design Choice MISTAKES:- You have not been consistent with the themes.
- You put too much detail where it was not needed. Examples: Who needs to know if it was a player or NPC wreck? Who needs to know the exact difference between all those containers? This is what the "type" column is for.
- You do not use enough "fills" in your geometries, and your base shape variety is poor.
- You don't use asymmetry properly and rely too much on (bi-)symmetrical icons.
- You have re-used existing shapes which were a common sight for something completely different that was common too. I don't understand why you have been doing that, when you avoided the uses of crosses and brackets completely.
- There are only two diamond shaped things now, which are carriers and asteroids. This means the difference between containers and batteries and other small square / rectangular things has become too muddy.
- If containers are squares, why does a wreck with loot have not a square on top of it? Why did you even go away from a filled wreck having loot? That was perfect.
- A mobile depot should have more similarity with a storage-type icon. In this case square with horizontal "appendages". Or, when reverting, diamond with appendages.
- Icon association is lacking. Example: Asteroid belts should look like BELTS (horizontal icon emphasis) and not clusters of things.
Development MISTAKES:- You knew the engine scaling limitation and did nothing about it. It would have been better to design for 90% first, and then craft the other 3 sets by hand to remain crisp and avoid blur. If that is not possible, then you needed to check why it wasn't. Is the overview legacy code? Then you should have fixed that first, having more flexibility for the future. I'm not getting tired of posting this poopy little mockup that outsources targeting information and colour tags to the sides of the icon.
- You have not responded to the feedback from months ago with enough information (this is a general problem, by the way). You did not explain to us well enough why certain suggestions or other things cannot be done. You did not provide good enough arguments some things should be kept as planned. You did not talk to us about other obstacles you have to face. The more constructive interaction and knowledge we have from your side, the better we can adapt our suggestions.
Untapped potential of OLD ICONS:Most shapes were bi-symmetrical. A half of Gö+ is Göñ and half of that is Göÿ This allowed for easy memorization, but they also could use the same base icon three times for three different things, as demonstrated. You could even cut the Gö+ Icon in 8 different ways, for a total of 9 symbols of one base shape. Add to that different lengths of the bars. You only used were three different sizes of crosses. If each of those sizes would have been used to it's fullest potential, that would mean you had 27 different possibilities to chose from, excluding the mixes. I understand the bottom right corner often has a colour tag which cuts down the available possibilities. You never saw the bottom right player ship bracket. However, you have missed two things: Line thickness and extras inside. A destroyer could have had the same bracket size as a frigate, but the lines would be twice as thick, meaning 2 pixels. Or, you could have "raised" the top and bottom brackets, doing the reverse you did with the industrials, which "widened" the left and right brackets". The same "raise" would work with old NPC crosses. Or you could have added extras INSIDE brackets. I always wondered why you never did that. "Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon." Can I ask about improving opportunities then? It has been 6 weeks :c
This. So much this. This puts into proper words my own muddled attempt of feedback.
|
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:45:07 -
[1200] - Quote
Draleth wrote:CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so? Even on large displays (my main monitor is 2560x1440) the UI is cluttered enough with various highly important windows that the only way to have all the windows up while still having the in-space brackets be useful is to reduce the UI scale. Interestingly, to compensate for smaller click targets, I also increase the menu font size to the maximum and have re-bound the radial menu to left click with zero delay. (This makes many actions more of a swipe than a click.) There are enough windows that I also use the tab-based window stacking, and still have difficulty getting the UI out of my way.
i also play with a scaled down UI for that reason. i even ended up to play on two full HD screens with the camera centered on the left display. overview, directional, drone window and blabla chat windows are left, local (with compact member list) is streched from the top to the bottom of the right display, next to fleet window, intel channels and other stuff. i don't even know how ppl can play on smaller displays :D
the smaller each information is displayed, the more information you can view at the same time. |
|
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
3572
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:45:47 -
[1201] - Quote
I was out of the loop for the new icons and only got in after being fourm banned, so couldn't really participate in the discussion.
So here's my (late) feedback: I think I can come to learn and/or ignore the icons as necessary for my gameplay, but what's wrong is the "yellow" attribute.
The first time I encountered "yellow" wrecks and couldn't access them I was like "WTF? Now inaccessible wrecks have the same icon as my wrecks?" It took me a while to notice that there's a subtle, nigh invisible yellow tint to them. Same goes for the "yellow" gates; it's become a matter of guess-and-click because the color cue is almost invisible, at least for me. This already happened with the old smaller icons, so my guess is that now the yelow is even dimer than before. Rather than a color cue, what I get is a intensity cue: yellow icons look slighlty dimmer on the overview.
I already suggested it with the first iteration of the UI: color tabs would go a long way to improve usability for players with visual impairments. I would totally love if the yellow gates had a yellow background on the overview list. And also would be great to add custom color tabs to the Neocom, like this mockup, so I stop opening the Market when I want to check my Wallet and vice-versa.
73% of EVE characters stay in high security space. 62% of EVE subscribers barely PvP. 40% of all new accounts just "level up their Ravens". Probably that's why PvE content in EVE Online is sub-par and CCP is head over heels for PvP...
|
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
736
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:46:31 -
[1202] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:darkchild's corpse wrote: need to say i like the concept
+1 I like.
Rat crosses could be thiker though. In fact, get rid of bracket, just leave crosses. |
Elah'n'matir
Evolved Thought Patterns
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:48:23 -
[1203] - Quote
I am not the first to say this but the new overview icons are terrible, they make it real hard to distinguish between different targets and ship types.
I would suggest to just go back to the old ones or allow for players to choose between the 2 types. |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:51:34 -
[1204] - Quote
if CCP is concerned about communication problems between players who use new icons and those who use old icons: implement a keyboard shortcut wich switches the icons as long as the shortcut is pressed. this is what guild wars 2 does with localization and it works great. you can easily switch between english and your main language. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
269
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 13:58:11 -
[1205] - Quote
+1 for the very cool concept icons in that there Dev Blog from way back.
-1 for what was actually delivered.
...except for wrecks and corpse(s) icons. I love those. Got my first corpse yesterday and I'm terribly excited about it.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
|
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
122
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 14:10:29 -
[1206] - Quote
Someone needs to file a missing persons report for CCP Claymore |
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 14:25:50 -
[1207] - Quote
Lfod Shi wrote:+1 for the very cool concept icons in that there Dev Blog from way back.
-1 for what was actually delivered.
...except for wrecks and corpse(s) icons. I love those. Got my first corpse yesterday and I'm terribly excited about it.
Personally I wish the wreck icons were the old filled in/empty upside down triangles. I'm fine with the rest of the icons myself, they just take some getting use to.
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
Ben Musana
Black Nano Ops
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 14:29:26 -
[1208] - Quote
Now after some time with the new icons - i feel like the first day. Takes me to long to identify wanted items vs. old icons.
CCP please give us the option to choose 'Old Icon Set' and 'New Icon Set'. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 14:54:13 -
[1209] - Quote
wow maps yea they really suck now..... last update icons etc and null people are upset about you rebuilding a game they have been paying for..... some for years......... and your really not listening to your customers you deserve to fail..... ask yourselves what your customer base numbers are telling you...... a game that takes 10 years to get anywhere may b a bit long...and changes kill interest as you never know what or how to work, or direction as you keep changing direction... visually I totally hate the new icons and really have not been able to scan with new map as it sucks
|
Crimson Grimslow
Total Recoil. Brothers of Tangra
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 14:56:04 -
[1210] - Quote
Those over view icons.... ive been against them form the start. overly complex and impossible to tell a ship from a structure at first glance. that combined with the new slower loading times Im astonished i havent been killed at undock yet. Terrible patch. #CCPFail. |
|
Lo Todako
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 15:07:56 -
[1211] - Quote
First forum post here, thought I'd throw in my view on the new icons from the perspective of someone who is very dyslexic.
Personally I dislike them, I've been having a lot of trouble telling things apart. I think important icons like ship icons need to be vastly different from the rest of the icons. At a quick glance, I cant tell say a beacon, from a player ship.
Recently I lost my first astero due to these icons, coming through a gate in null not long after the icons had changed, I was playing it calm as I was deep into null with basically none around, and I did not notice the other two players on the gate. By the time I did, I was already locked and half dead. I know, I should play as if there are hostiles around in null 24/7, but with the old icons, I could easily tell a ship from other icons. Sure, a lot of the older icons where pretty hard for me to make out, but at-least the ships where very distinct and different.
I think the icons need to differ a lot more, not just in shape but in color to. From my perspective, half of the icons blend in together, eve at say 120% ui scale. Also, being able to have a separate overview window that could say, just show other ships in? That would be great.
Anyway, I'll probably stop playing for a while, either until the icons change back/we get better ones, or I figure out a way to tell icons apart quickly and easily. |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 15:19:03 -
[1212] - Quote
Lo Todako wrote: Anyway, I'll probably stop playing for a while, either until the icons change back/we get better ones, or I figure out a way to tell icons apart quickly and easily.
you could set a background for all players in your overview settings (even for neutral players and those with no standing at all). this is what i did myself but i don't consider that a long term solution. |
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 15:38:41 -
[1213] - Quote
I believe it is time that CCP put the heads up and gave a response to the out pouring of dissatisfaction with them and the new Icon set...
The dissatisfaction is real, many peeps feel betrayed by the manner in which CCP force this change onto the player base even after what I believe was negative response from SISI testers...
I would suggest a speedy return to old icon set would be the best way to proceed, the longer CCP leaves it the less credible the CCP Management becomes.. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 16:01:54 -
[1214] - Quote
LOL looking like same crap they are giving alliance tournaments and skins and not addressing concerns.....ccp please pull ur heads out and use them for other things.... ur being paid to keep a good game not destroy it...... |
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
212
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 16:17:29 -
[1215] - Quote
Tyr Dolorem wrote:Someone needs to file a missing persons report for CCP Claymore
Well, to be fair and as devs have said in the past, it is hard to read and respond to bad reviews. However, just because the devs aren't responding every hour doesn't mean these guys aren't reading our posts. I'm willing to bet CCP higher ups are talking about our responses as well and want a solution just like us pod pilots.
Just don't expect CCP to respond in this thread all the time. They have work to do and cant spend all of their time reading the forums. If all they did was respond to every special snowflakes post, the icons would never get fixed.
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
828
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 16:38:32 -
[1216] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Tyr Dolorem wrote:Someone needs to file a missing persons report for CCP Claymore Well, to be fair and as devs have said in the past, it is hard to read and respond to bad reviews. However, just because the devs aren't responding every hour doesn't mean these guys aren't reading our posts. I'm willing to bet CCP higher ups are talking about our responses as well and want a solution just like us pod pilots. Just don't expect CCP to respond in this thread all the time. They have work to do and cant spend all of their time reading the forums. If all they did was respond to every special snowflakes post, the icons would never get fixed. Absolutely.
The wheels of progress turn slowly.... and sometimes in the wrong direction.
We'll see what news next week brings.
I vividly recall the bollockings I received (when working as a developer) and also gave (when working in support and later as QA and release manager). Once the mess was all cleaned up and the customer was happy again, we'd all head down the pub and forgive eachother in traditional fashion. It's important to be able to make and recover from mistakes, if you're always afraid of ******* up then you'll never reach your potential. |
Milluardo Peacecraft
Gothic Pioneers Synergy of Steel
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 16:39:56 -
[1217] - Quote
i also don't like the new icons, they are very confusing in some situations. E.g. in fast pvp situations with more than 1 dude...
if you could give us the option to choose... probably i would stay with the old icons.
|
Daemun Khanid
Sanctus Imperialis
83
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 17:18:59 -
[1218] - Quote
Initially I thought I liked the new icons. I applauded CCP for keeping things fresh and trying to improve things.Indeed there are some of them that I still do, but the more I've played instead of getting used to them they've just become increasingly confusing.
There are just WAY too many triangular shapes. Upsidedown, rightside up, a triangle with a dot in the middle, a triangle with a dot on the top. Trying to rapidly locate wrecks, FW complexs and pretty much anything that has been given a triangle icon in some form or another, has just become a nightmare. The crosses at least stood out. Half the time now I end up selecting the wrong item in overview because it just all blends together in a column of triangles.
You wanna give ships the neat little chevron shapes, fine. I'm good with that. But other objects need to stand out. Wrecks and beacons are just horrible. Even the little circles for asteroid belts are arranged in you guessed it....a triangle pattern. The wrecks with the little dot in the middle that disappears once it's been looted, cute. Really, but just filling it in solid and have it turn into an outline made unlooted wrecks SOOOO much easier to see.
OH and fill in the sun so it's solid white again PLEASE. Trying to pick out that silly little sun icon amid all the gates and moons and planets is just ridiculous. The solid white stood out really nicely. No reason at all to change it.
Daemun of Khanid
|
Static Signal
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 18:33:03 -
[1219] - Quote
My ships no longer have skins. They have maybe two base colors applied now and that is all. Even the fins on my Minmitar ships are just black.
Not talking about the new buy -able skins that can be applied by players. |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 18:54:25 -
[1220] - Quote
Static Signal wrote:My ships no longer have skins. They have maybe two base colors applied now and that is all. Even the fins on my Minmitar ships are just black.
Not talking about the new buy -able skins that can be applied by players.
i think this is a load on demand thingy. i noticed that my ships have no skins as well when i first activate them after the patch. but the little circle icon in the neocom starts spinning and a second later they have textures again. |
|
Lazarus Complex
The Prodigy Expedition
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 20:20:00 -
[1221] - Quote
OK, i think I'm going to put in a request to change my character's name to Mobile Depot so that when I'm in a frig i'll be all incognito like, cause it will look like you're targeted by one anyhow
*edit cause I can't spell until after i re-read what i wrote |
Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
146
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 20:35:31 -
[1222] - Quote
@CCP_Surge - Reporting back after a few days of use, as instructed.
The new icons are still terrible. Can't begin to tell you how many times I have locked on to the wrong thing. At least 2 friends who are color blind are having an even worse time with them. I find myself using the "Name" and "Type" columns because the icons are just so..... bad.
So yeah. My opinion is unchanged. Please add a "Use Legacy Icons" button to general settings please. |
Sial Harkonnen
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 21:28:09 -
[1223] - Quote
hi ccp,
thanks force me to download about 2gb of useless, unwanted sh.. AGAIN!
this new overview icons sucks! makes the whole game unecassery complex! espacially for veterans. whats the matter to bringing more hard to distinguish ugly tiny icons? what we had before was ok! no one wants this new sh..!
...oh a wreck...oh no its a frig... is it a cruiser or battlecruiser or a battleship? hard to see difference quickly!
please please please give a opt in/out or roll back for this new overview icon crap!
thx.
|
Red Deck
Stupid Stunts
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 21:36:30 -
[1224] - Quote
After struggling with the new overview icons for three days, I have given up and tried the bandaid solution today, giving all PC ships a color background (based on standings, the same colour for all levels including no standings). This colour-coding does make it easier to mentally process the Type column with ship types (which is what I now have to do to obtain roughly the same information that used to be provided by the icons... it's a bit slower, but it more or less works - unlike the new overview icons, which I now pretty much ignore altogether.
Good thing I have been playing for more than two years... so I am, at least on a very basic level, able to process the textual information in the Type column, because the ship types do mean something to me (at least in most cases). I can't imagine what my workaround would be if I was a new player overwhelmed by the number of ship types appearing in the column. |
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 21:41:26 -
[1225] - Quote
Red Deck wrote:I can't imagine what my workaround would be if I was a new player overwhelmed by the number of ship types appearing in the column.
as a new player you would look for the level indicator that tells you how much stronger everyone else is :D |
Zan- nah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 22:41:15 -
[1226] - Quote
Whats the record for number of replies? |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 23:17:04 -
[1227] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
Hi, let me reclarify a bit here. ................snip.......................... I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I play with 90% so the UI doesn't take up as much screen real estate. Its one thing Ive been disappointed in with the recent changes. You guys seem to be going for a more UI is better UI approach. EvE has great graphics... why are you hiding it under so much UI ! At-least provide some toggles so we can remove some of the redundant bits. I dont need 3 separate bits of UI telling me I'm warping to gate etc.
On a more positive note.. I actually dont mind the new icons. They seem more unobtrusive than the last ones. I pvp mostly using the overview anyway so I dont care to much about icon shape, stuff happens to fast. I just want to know rough positioning of bad guys.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 23:35:07 -
[1228] - Quote
Page 62 of replies, the number of those replies inching towards 1300 now. No notice of when that 'classic icon' choice will be available. That is more replies in less than a week on one thread dealing with a release, than came from Mosaic's 2 threads of feedback and bugs. Give me some time later, I'll figure out if one thread less than a week old has more replies when the release before Mosaic's 2 added to that count still leaves General Feedback Carnyx the cham-peen of thread-naughts for a release in the last 3-4 cycles.
Waiting for two things at this point before I do more during a login than update Industry jobs. One, the timeline for that option to become available. Two, some 'over 9000!' joke inserted by someone with better gif abilities than mine. Best I can offer, watch the Monty Python's Flying Circus 'Dead Parrot' skit and replace the word 'parrot' with 'new icons.' Surreal humor I have, software or app skills to make it happen, not so much.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.05 23:48:50 -
[1229] - Quote
ARMED1 wrote: ..... God the new map! While not actually part of this patch I must say I agree.
While it is in a few ways nice - for example it is visually stunning and can make some evaluation easier. Aside from that it is not so great. And to think of scanning with it? Blah just blah.
I have tried it for scanning and it is damn near unusable. I am sure CCP will not remove it since they have spent considerable time and effort (money) on developing it.
My suggestion? Take some of the revenue from the overpriced poster set and use it to pay someone to continue "fixing" the new map.
It has a long way to go.
Another suggestion? Maybe just quit screwing with all these "little things" that arent really broken.
Do we need a new map, new icons, dirt on our ships? Maybe it does make for a more immersive experience in some ways.
But I think there are other bigger things that CCP can do to improve the game first.
This new uptempo schedule of expansions is nice - but we dont need junk just for the sake of CCP being able to claim they added stuff with the latest patch.
Hey CCP - its quality over quantity that we want. (bold by me)
hits the nail for me, just that I feel even worse things approaching .....
Best example is the entosis madness running amok - instead of testing out its niche in sov warfare, its already out to conquer ALL kinds of structures .... typical case of trying to repair what wasnt broken in the first place.
I-¦m really not looking ahead to the collateral damage by that approach. :-( |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
167
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 00:39:10 -
[1230] - Quote
Day three and still have not seen an improvement in my gameplay because of these new icons...please revert them and use the massive amount of feedback you have received through all the feedback threads you created specifically for new icon attempts to create something that makes sense and is fully functional. Not just flashy and shiney.
At this stage, i think CCP are going to try to save face (if thats even possible) and just mull on through with these new icons, because "its too late to change them all around now that they're out there"...thats my guess.
My reasons? Complete lack of implementing and ignoring any of the feedback from the near months worth from SiSi (minus "fixing" the pacman stargate). The fact their reaction to the massive amount of TQ feedback once it hit was of the "take a few days and get used to the 'mess'...". Not one mention of even a hint that something might be not agreeable with the new icons in the "this week in Eve" post. CCP themselves even called this a "minor icon swap" meaning they likely don't think it really needs much attention, since again, its a very minor change afterall.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
|
|
Tomba
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 00:46:36 -
[1231] - Quote
Hate the new icons. can't tell important stuff from a rock. |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
49
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 00:54:11 -
[1232] - Quote
Sullen Bear wrote:4th day with new icons. They are as terrible as at release. May be more terrible. CCP, how about try EVE PvP? It may be some fun for you and save many of us from your brilliant ideas.
BTW - please, never, NEVER disable old map. New map unacceptable in PvP too. At least system map.
All true.
Roll it back w the icons CCP.
KK |
Tomba
Screaming Hayabusa Neo-Bushido Movement
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 01:00:56 -
[1233] - Quote
Tomba wrote:Hate the new icons. can't tell important stuff from a rock.
Just to clarify, when a ship arrive on gate with you, maybe it should stand out from the gate and other crap already on the overview. |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 01:33:11 -
[1234] - Quote
After a few days using the "new" icons set , i get used to use types column instead of the icons one good job
-Cruiser, battlecruiser and battleship need a new icons something more coolish -Industrials are confusing as hell -Drones don't need individual icons -capsule need the eggs shape back and shuttles icon is terribad
-Warpgate ,npc wreck ,wreck,looted npc wreck,looted wreck,beacon,mobile depot need to go back to their original form or get something less weird. -Containers, asteroids and ices don t need individual icons except maybe for freight container
the rest is okish to my taste. |
Kormik Deldaine
Elysian Ascent Diplomatic Immunity.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 02:19:41 -
[1235] - Quote
The icons and alliance logo things pain my soul. Please give those a once over, these features need to be brought back to the drawing board. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 03:54:24 -
[1236] - Quote
Every time I see it, I wonder why the Sun icon is smaller than that of stargates or customs offices. Also apparently the sun is an NPC, if I understand the shading scheme. |
haralampijem
Fatal and The rabbit The G0dfathers
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 05:55:47 -
[1237] - Quote
Cant play this game anymore because of new icons! Give us back old icons. |
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 06:31:44 -
[1238] - Quote
Thought id wait a while before i had another rant, about trying to get rid of old players....
When we look at things we use shape, colour and arrangement (solid or not) so why after the neo panel went into white icons only, have we gone to game icons that are all white line drawings????
It is useless, i click on an item and look at its picture to get a quicker idea of what I'm looking at, or the item description.
You have upgraded graphics to make great looking ships (in most cases) but we don't see them just a mass of kids squiggles in space.
I have already removed many item types to reduce the amount to try and decyfer but seriously this is not a good change.
And the on-line launcher is still useless, 3/4 minutes to get on the game is appalling...continue with this trend and you wont have any players left, new players want instant access, less patience than us old ones, but even mine is getting a bit thin. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 07:40:29 -
[1239] - Quote
I mean, look at this. Show this to an independent UX/UI professional and ask them what their reactions are. https://puu.sh/ielys/69f788c875.png That's not a hypothetical situation, I am looking at that in space right now. |
Vivien Meally
Des-Meisters-Lakaien Brothers of Tangra
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 08:28:33 -
[1240] - Quote
Day 5 after Icon Patch.
And Icons are still bad. |
|
Heinrich Rotwang
Zentralrat deutscher Fliesentischbesitzer e.V.
82
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 08:54:44 -
[1241] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Kaeda Maxwell wrote:Basically screen real estate in EVE is at a premium. So any space I can win anywhere is welcome making everything smaller is a good way to gain space. If there was a 75% scaling option I'd use that too :) Question: Would you like it if you could scale the overview separately from the rest of the UI ?
Overview is actually one of the only 2 areas that already have an option to use smaller fonts (the other is the chat window - for mysterious reasons it won't let you use a smaller font on the user list tho). |
Steijn
Quay Industries
752
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 09:02:18 -
[1242] - Quote
Day #5 - Still ****, still indistinguishable, and still as far as im concerned, game breaking.
Its all well and good updating all the shaders and stuff, but if 1 of the main areas of the game is so severely broken, you might as well just get Tuxford to unplug everything again and call it a day. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 09:25:29 -
[1243] - Quote
There is one good point, and that is the introduction of icons/brackets for things that previously had none, like 'Biomass'; this makes it easier to avoid being decloaked by such objects. Anything that can decloak you should have an icon, in my opinion. |
Gustav Mannfred
The Scope Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 09:56:37 -
[1244] - Quote
New icons are just terrible
Jackdaw and new shaders look great
i'm REALY miss the old stuff.-á
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=24183
|
Asp IV
Apex Abyss
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 10:37:59 -
[1245] - Quote
Daemun Khanid wrote:Initially I thought I liked the new icons. I applauded CCP for keeping things fresh and trying to improve things.Indeed there are some of them that I still do, but the more I've played instead of getting used to them they've just become increasingly confusing.
There are just WAY too many triangular shapes. Upsidedown, rightside up, a triangle with a dot in the middle, a triangle with a dot on the top. Trying to rapidly locate wrecks, FW complexs and pretty much anything that has been given a triangle icon in some form or another, has just become a nightmare. The crosses at least stood out. Half the time now I end up selecting the wrong item in overview because it just all blends together in a column of triangles.
You wanna give ships the neat little chevron shapes, fine. I'm good with that. But other objects need to stand out. Wrecks and beacons are just horrible. Even the little circles for asteroid belts are arranged in you guessed it....a triangle pattern. The wrecks with the little dot in the middle that disappears once it's been looted, cute. Really, but just filling it in solid and have it turn into an outline made unlooted wrecks SOOOO much easier to see.
OH and fill in the sun so it's solid white again PLEASE. Trying to pick out that silly little sun icon amid all the gates and moons and planets is just ridiculous. The solid white stood out really nicely. No reason at all to change it.
Illuminati confirmed
|
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1724
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:09:31 -
[1246] - Quote
Well, it's saturday, instead of having a nice afternoon, early evening playing EVE , I will be doing something else. I will force myself to sign on before bed tonigt to update PI, but in order to avoid the headaches, I am limiting my playtime. Interesting thing is that With the nice weather, I am not missing EVE as much as I thought.
That's a win? Right?
PS my wife thanks you for the new Icon design, you have achieved what she was unable to.
There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
|
LuCiFAs Son
Seal Clubbers Club
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:13:18 -
[1247] - Quote
let's bring them back and forget this ever happened..mmmkay? |
JahTorch
Disassembly workshop Out of Sight.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:22:35 -
[1248] - Quote
New brackets and overview icons are totally useless and uninformative. They're very thin and eye-hurt because of 100500 dots and dashes. |
Lahnius
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:29:45 -
[1249] - Quote
... and the aggravation continues ... the new icons are something I know personally I will *NEVER* get used to ... its just too much going on; and I refer to my previous post AND continue to stand strong on that post ... sorry CCP this just isnt working for me ...
Serious Human Considerations |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:35:53 -
[1250] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:24h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait. 46h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, hmm maybe do a big cleaning of my appartment while i wait. 70h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its friday so time to drown my sorrow and fall asleep crying while watching old eve movies and remembering the good old days when i could play eve.
94h since last login... hey look no patch today, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its National Day here today so i guess i celebrate it
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
81
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:39:36 -
[1251] - Quote
Oh dear, there are a lot of things I want to address... there goes my lunch break :c This will need to be broken up into more than one post.
For everyone who wants to push multiple sets of icons to choose from, you have not thought this through. It is a BAD idea. Here is why: The more sets exist in the client, the more icons are required to be maintained in future patches, and the more icons need to be created for NEW entity types. This will inevitably lead to a point where one set is designing itself into a corner, when another one is still doing fine. What are you going to do by then? Scrap one set saying "it is not feasible any more" only to have people shout all over the place again why their favourite set is gone? You have to view the bigger picture in this. One set is all we need, but this set needs to be functional. introducing multiple sets now is a bandaid solution that is not going to get us anywhere. There would be no problems if the newly introduced set of icons was BETTER.
Now, I'd love to conduct a test here, because I'm not sure if creating a different topic in the sea of raised fists would help the issue, or make it worse.
Question 1: What do you really NEED to improve the OLD set of icons? I guess it mostly comes down to a distinction between destroyer / frigate and cruiser / battlecruiser as well as being able to see a difference between Capitals and battleships, and of course the industrial / barge / Freighter area. But I'm pretty sure there are more things hidden.
Question 2: Did you ever had a problem with certain types not having an icon? Like, did it make you feel the game is lacking and incomplete and thus cheap? For me, personally, it was an indicator of only important things get an icon, the rest doesn't matter. So if I want to look for something in the unimportant non-icon category, I look at the type column.
Question 3: Do you really need a distinction between all the kinds of different drones, batteries, containers and facilities or would you only need a distinction for some? Like, is this a deciding factor that would save your life in a fight or would make it easier for you to locate a service?
Question 4: Regardless of old or new icon set, would an option to customize colour the icons itself by certain rough types helpful for you? I would think about 3 distinctions. Celestials (everything NOT having an affiliation), Player entities (this includes ships, anchorables and structures) and NPC entities (this includes ships, anchorables and structures.)
Question 5: Would you appreciate a general idea of an Overview mechanic rework? That would allow the targeting brackets and colour tags to be outsourced to either side of the icon, making full use of the icon real estate. Low quality example of double tags and with single tags. Another thing would be having more tabs than 5, and the ability to mark one tab as "auxiliary overview", which opens a second instance of the overview window with that tab selection.
I'm still not sure if opening a new topic about those questions would be useful or not. |
Bernard Dupont
C0NATUS Echoes of Nowhere
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:39:53 -
[1252] - Quote
To my mind old icons were more intuitives, usefull, with a better rendering. I play with small fonts overview option on and it's impossible to distinct cruiser ship and battle ship. Neutrals look like wrecks. And in space or during combats, i ve got a big "ugly tag" which mask drones and frigate size ships on screen...absolutly horroble. The little checkboxe icon was pretty good and smarter. |
Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:43:59 -
[1253] - Quote
Has there been any word from CCP on their take on the feedback provided on the new icons? Are we at the stage like we were with turret icons yet? Where we roll back to something that at least worked? |
Lahnius
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:53:18 -
[1254] - Quote
Firia O'Flame wrote:Has there been any word from CCP on their take on the feedback provided on the new icons? Are we at the stage like we were with turret icons yet? Where we roll back to something that at least worked?
last message from CCP was a couple days ago:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5794965#post5794965
... not a peep since ... |
Blue Harrier
184
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:55:02 -
[1255] - Quote
The more I use the game with the new icons the more I dislike them. If a person is colour blind like myself then to see a colour against a coloured background you either need a bold red or a block red colour.
Unfortunately the new icons achieve neither of these criteria, the single pixel lines do not carry enough colour and the red is not bold enough to be seen against bold bright backgrounds. I also note from some comments that some icons have subtle shading within or around the icon, please be aware colour blind people like primary colours, shading is of little use to us unless itGÇÖs bold, full blocked and large.
You should also note that colour is perceived differently by the user depending on monitor settings (warm/cold/bright/game/internet/etc) and by background reflections (walls/doors/windows/etc) from within the room, think of GÇÿThat DressGÇÖ that changed colour depending on how the viewer perceived the picture.
When I play the game I only need to know, is the icon approaching hostile (red) or not (any other colour), the rest is in the overview. The overview icons are the useful bit the GÇÿin space iconsGÇÖ most of the time are just clutter.
How much would it take to include a GÇÿcolour blindGÇÖ pallet of colours in the game so we could either select it as an option or adjust colours to suite our needs?
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
|
Lahnius
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 11:57:27 -
[1256] - Quote
i am seriously hoping that something a little like this is happening right now at CCP in reference to the MASSIVE number of dislikes towards the new icons:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS9j_-mqSWc |
Iphigeneia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 12:03:27 -
[1257] - Quote
Speaking as a vaguely new player.
It took me literally hours to get used to the old icons and how they worked when I first started. Even up till the day before the patch launched, though, I was still mousing over to see what things were. I've been playing every day -- running missions, traveling through space, visiting trade hubs -- so I've seen pretty much most of the new icons in action.
I'm having a really hard time getting used to them. And honestly, each day I play, I like them a whole lot less. I'm wishing more each time I undock that I'll be able to see the old, clean icons. They are not any quicker to recognise, and I suspect that these icons I will still be mousing over to find out what they are 3-6+ months from now unless they are changed/improved.
I haven't resized my UI, almost everything is still the default for a brand new noob account. I think the icons look sloppy and without clean, clear, simple lines. The icons for battleships, cruisers/battlecruisers, wrecks, mobile depots, stations, stargates, pods don't seem to accurately convey what they're meant to depict. Granted, the triangles for the mobile depot don't seem to be much more intuitive than the pacman ghost shaped thing, but the new one isn't all that helpful. Especially since you reused that triangle shape from the old mobile depot to signify frigate-class ships! Good god, talk about a poor choice. If you had to reuse that triangle shape, could it not have been something else stationary or at least something that can't target/shoot you? The old big-fat-cross for an NPC battleship felt like a battleship. But this--whateverthing that conveys battleships now feels a whole lot less intimidating to face. It just feels wrong. And that's just *one* of the icons. The wreck icons leave me completely disoriented, and I'm not sure I can explain why other than that they feel so cramped and messy.
And they all look messy. Blurry. No clean, clear, simple lines, as I said before. I don't exactly think the old icons were perfect but they were far clearer and quicker to parse at a glance.
I do like the drone icons and the corpse icons and the asteroid icons. Admittedly, however, I agree with above posters who have said that differentiation between the different drone varieties and the different asteroid sizes isn't strictly necessary.
I do see where the improvement was needed, in that the old icons didn't quite say *enough*, but these icons certainly aren't the improvement that was needed. I think it would be better to return the old icons while beta-testing a different set of new icons on the test server. I mean, isn't that what that's there for? And please for the love of god: we need new icons that have clear, sharp lines -- icons that can scale with UI size adjustments -- icons that don't look messy, blurry, or just plain silly for the items they represent.
And I realise I've said the word messy a whole lot of times but that's what this has felt like, after several days and many hours of playing and attempting to get used to this change. A mess. Not an improvement. |
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
102
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 12:19:46 -
[1258] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I'm still not sure if opening a new topic about those questions would be useful or not.
I think it would, if only to separate a poll from feedback on what's already there.
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
380
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 14:35:26 -
[1259] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:I'm tempted to draw another mockup, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort (unless CCP decides to make some kind of a contest asking players to submit suggestions or decides to make it possible to use customized icons). Bah, did it anyway.
Modified the old brackets and the current capital ship icons. I think something like this would work: Ship Icons
- All subcaps brackets are squares, all capital ships are represented by diamonds (for consistency). - The dots in the cruiser (solid dot) and battleship (hollow dot) icons are debatable. I added them for all those, who think that the old bracket size differences weren't discernable enough. - Different orientation of the slash for destroyers and battlecruisers to help keep them apart . - No brackets for capsules and shuttles, because neither has combat capabilities. - Rounded brackets for mining barge and industrial to make them stand out more when it gets crowded. - All combat capital ships have one half of the diamond shaped icons with a double line (titan is two intersecting diamonds). - Capital industrial and freighter icons have the same interior as mining barge and industrial respectively, to stay consistent with regard to typical ship useage. - Made sure that icons scale well to 90% (12px base) and 110% (16px base).
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
102
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 14:59:24 -
[1260] - Quote
Very nice. Looks like an improvement over classic brackets, for the most part.
What I think have an I issue with. -- Different slashes and dots in subcaps. Still think it's too much detail for a bracket. I'd use a single kind of slash (or maybe a dot) to differentiate between frigate/destroyer and cruiser/BC. -- Titan icon is too much of a zebra. Interchanging 1-2px lines and spaces make it look... more filled than the others and thus deviating from 'non-filled PC icons theme'
Non-combat ships, I don't really know, don't encounter them often enough to have an opinion. |
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
383
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 15:28:12 -
[1261] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:Very nice. Looks like an improvement over classic brackets, for the most part. What I think have an I issue with. -- Different slashes and dots in subcaps. Still think it's too much detail for a bracket. I'd use a single kind of slash (or maybe a dot) to differentiate between frigate/destroyer and cruiser/BC. -- Titan icon is too much of a zebra. Interchanging 1-2px lines and spaces make it look... more filled than the others and thus deviating from 'non-filled PC icons theme' Non-combat ships, I don't really know, don't encounter them often enough to have an opinion. Titan icon still had the "doomsday dot" from an earlier version. It was supposed to be just two intersecting diamonds. Edited my other post and replaced the picture with a corrected version.
Regarding dots and slashes, I originally intended to use a dot to go from frigate to destroyer and a slash from bottom left to top right to go from cruiser to battlecruiser. But then I thought I remembered some people complaining, that the old brackets were looking too much the same and went with what I have now.
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Canon Makanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 15:39:27 -
[1262] - Quote
Benito Arias wrote:Very nice. Looks like an improvement over classic brackets, for the most part. What I think have an I issue with. -- Different slashes and dots in subcaps. Still think it's too much detail for a bracket. I'd use a single kind of slash (or maybe a dot) to differentiate between frigate/destroyer and cruiser/BC. -- Titan icon is too much of a zebra. Interchanging 1-2px lines and spaces make it look... more filled than the others and thus deviating from 'non-filled PC icons theme' Non-combat ships, I don't really know, don't encounter them often enough to have an opinion.
this is really nice, much much better than the triangles in space right now!! The icons right now is not bad in the overview, but they are indistinguishable in the space. |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
288
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 15:47:12 -
[1263] - Quote
day one of the War: Tyler Durden Demolitions vs. C C P Alliance: they choose to stay docked, probably due to crappy icons. |
Lahnius
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 16:16:49 -
[1264] - Quote
E6o5 wrote:day one of the War: Tyler Durden Demolitions vs. C C P Alliance: they choose to stay docked, probably due to crappy icons.
hahahahaha ... good one ... i can hear it now:
CCP Pilot1: ok these new icons ... which one is the war target?
CCP Pilot2: the red ones duh!
CCP Pilot1: wait, thats a NPC, im confused!
CCP Pilot2: oh damnit, we should have done this better!
ok that was mean of me ... im sorry ... lol ... |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 16:56:14 -
[1265] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:Yes, that would have been a great idea : a contest for the new icons, with some nice prizes for the fun, and most importantly a poll for the players to choose the winners. But at the end let's not forget the main question : were the icons really the most urgent thing to spend time on ? Did they really need to be changed ? Aren't there much more important things to be done to improve EVE ? The problem with those contests is that no matter how clear and detailed the requirements are, some people will misread certain requirements, and then there is the chance that the moderators going through the selections are missing that (this has happened elsewhere, I'm not making this up) and then an invalid design gets voted upon. Then there is the issue with voting itself. Only a small portion of the playerbase gets to vote on the poll. Now imagine the fallout when the invalid design starts winning and people point out that it does not meet all rules. It has happened. I'm not going to even touch the human relations part with existing UI developers. Making a contest to fix a failed development is... not okay.
Red Deck wrote:I can't imagine what my workaround would be if I was a new player overwhelmed by the number of ship types appearing in the column. A new player would learn the icons as they were without any previous associations to overwrite. I mean, sure, a new player is probably going to take longer to make proper distinctions among the icons presented, but a new player will never have an issue like "why is a mobile depot shooting at me" because his eve icon memory is a clean slate.
Louanne Barros wrote:I mean, look at this. Show this to an independent UX/UI professional and ask them what their reactions are. https://puu.sh/ielys/69f788c875.pngThat's not a hypothetical situation, I am looking at that in space right now. I knooooow, it is terrible :c The station and stargate and beacon icons are waaay too huge among other things
Heinrich Rotwang wrote:Overview is actually one of the only 2 areas that already have an option to use smaller fonts (the other is the chat window - for mysterious reasons it won't let you use a smaller font on the user list tho). You can only check between "use small fonts" or not, which squishes the horizontal lines closer together, making it even less easy to distinguish huge icons from another, so it introduces another issue even if you use 100% UI scaling. Also, the overview is more than just the matrix content of it. There are also the size of the buttons from the "Selected" window.
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Well, it's saturday, instead of having a nice afternoon, early evening playing EVE , I will be doing something else. I will force myself to sign on before bed tonigt to update PI, but in order to avoid the headaches, I am limiting my playtime. Interesting thing is that With the nice weather, I am not missing EVE as much as I thought.
PS my wife thanks you for the new Icon design, you have achieved what she was unable to. I don't want to sound rude, but if this is not sarcasm but actual reality, then you might have a game addiction problem. |
Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 17:10:22 -
[1266] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:Firia O'Flame wrote:Has there been any word from CCP on their take on the feedback provided on the new icons? Are we at the stage like we were with turret icons yet? Where we roll back to something that at least worked? last message from CCP was a couple days ago: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5794965#post5794965... not a peep since ...
Well even that little bit is nice. I wish we knew more, and were looped in a bit more, but the above link does say that we'll be stuck with what we have for a little while longer. It needs to sit a while, and then proper action can be taken. Like garbage day. |
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
214
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 17:28:16 -
[1267] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I don't want to sound rude, but if this is not sarcasm but actual reality, then you might have a game addiction problem.
Gaming addiction? No such thing. * downs a Mtn Dew in one gulp *
Just the other day I was chatting with a corpie on coms when this very subject came up. During the convo he was complaining about hearing what I was doing in the bathroom because of my wireless mic. I just told him the wireless mic was necessary because there are some things that a bottle beside the computer desk just cant take care of.
He proceeded to point out that I might have a gaming problem because he overheard my conversation with the city official talking about how tall my grass was and how they were gonna charge me if they had to come out and cut it. Can you imagine the nerve of those people? I think I lost a few million isk on the market because of that interruption and I told the official I was going to look into getting that isk back when next I talked to my internet lawyer friend on Eve.
* grabs tissue to stop todays nose bleed while downing a Mtn Dew *
Anyways, the corpie also pointed out how I lost my job recently. He implied it was because of my forum warrioring while I was at work. I told him the boss was being unreasonable and I was looking for a new job anyway. Just like my last job. They actually tracked my total internet use and came up with some absurd numbers like my spending 6 hours a day commenting on the forums and how I wasn't productive as an employee. Yea, I left that place straight away.
* downs another Mtn Dew *
Haha! Did you see that? What? Yes, I'm fine. Why does everyone keep asking me that?
Gaming addiction. Pfft!!!
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
|
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
207
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 17:44:04 -
[1268] - Quote
Myriad Blaze wrote:Myriad Blaze wrote:I'm tempted to draw another mockup, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort (unless CCP decides to make some kind of a contest asking players to submit suggestions or decides to make it possible to use customized icons). Bah, did it anyway. Modified the old brackets and the current capital ship icons. I think something like this would work: Ship Icons- All subcaps brackets are squares, all capital ships are represented by diamonds (for consistency). - The dots in the cruiser (solid dot) and battleship (hollow dot) icons are debatable. I added them for all those, who think that the old bracket size differences weren't discernable enough. - Different orientation of the slash for destroyers and battlecruisers to help keep them apart . - No brackets for capsules and shuttles, because neither has combat capabilities. - Rounded brackets for mining barge and industrial to make them stand out more when it gets crowded. - All combat capital ships have one half of the diamond shaped icons with a double line (titan is two intersecting diamonds). - Capital industrial and freighter icons have the same interior as mining barge and industrial respectively, to stay consistent with regard to typical ship useage. - Made sure that icons scale well to 90% (12px base) and 110% (16px base).
Thank you for producing these. However, to me they are less distinguishable than CCP's new icons. Slight size differences, like between cruiser and battleship, are difficult to judge. The differences in the central dots isn't obvious enough. The differences between a slash to the left and a slash to the right, or a up and down chevrons, are arbitrary to me. The lack or presence of an underline is more intuitive.
But then, I like the triangle/house/chevron style of CCP's new icons. Just my personal taste. :-) |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
405
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 18:09:27 -
[1269] - Quote
Yet another bizarre update - when dealing with pve the "name" of the rat is now identical to the "type." For instance, Sansha's Phantasms which are battle cruiser type rats are listed as "sansha's Phantasm" under both the name and type columns. If you want to know that it is a battle cruiser you have to look at the icon - but since the icon is indecipherable you have to hover over it to see that it is actually a battlecruiser. Honestly it was so much easier in pre-patch - you saw the relative size of the ship from the icon and then could see that it was a battle cruiser from the type column - now all the useful information is hidden.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
53
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 18:32:32 -
[1270] - Quote
Awesome.
KK
|
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ARMED1
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 18:44:56 -
[1271] - Quote
So now 64 pages of mostly hate for the icons from the last patch...
CCP do you get it yet?
Seems that most of the patch isn't an issue except THE ICONS!
Ffs how many more pages of hate do you need before you get the point.
Safe to say that if something doesn't happen in relation to the icons that it will be obvious that CCP does not care what it's player base thinks.
Yay for the most annoying gameplay change since I have been a subscriber. Yay for CCP paying lip service to its player community while not really caring at all. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
82
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 19:18:59 -
[1272] - Quote
And now for something completely different.
Go to character customization. Next step, towards portrait mode. Open lights, hover the section. Notice something? The popup for the 7 secondary light sources and the brightness slider is gone. This did not happen in Mosaic. How many things are you continuing to break? :c Since we can't play properly due to the icons, now we can't even play dress-up properly any more. Well... poop. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 19:50:57 -
[1273] - Quote
Let's all go to a new game......by the time they finish with their rebuilding of this 1 it will not resemble the 1 it was
it's better to add content than constantly change it |
Terminus Antollare
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate United Interests
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 19:54:14 -
[1274] - Quote
I like the new icons. There I said it |
Arch-Magus Mephisto
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 19:54:51 -
[1275] - Quote
I am certain CCP knows full well that the player base feels very strongly that the new overview icons are not going well. Thus making immediate plans to revert to either the old scheme or to come up with a design in record speed that actually works.
Please, this is actually important.
Also regarding Fozie Sov: Please do not let sovereignty turn into a game of pest play. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13316
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 20:04:41 -
[1276] - Quote
In case I haven't said this already, the new icons are terrible, and they should be rolled back entirely.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 20:21:10 -
[1277] - Quote
Arch-Magus Mephisto wrote:Also regarding Fozie Sov: Please do not let sovereignty turn into a game of pest play. We will see a fleet of 3 noob ships take systems.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 20:45:57 -
[1278] - Quote
It is weekend anyway, so the soonest, reasonable timeframe for a member of CCP to post something, would be Monday afternoon, GMT. |
maredelsilenzio
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 21:15:19 -
[1279] - Quote
Thanks guys!
I can proudly report that I'm out of the game for 4 days now. I realized that I spend too much time online and I tried everything to play less, but all my efforts were fruitless. However, as from the moment you had successfully deployed Carnyx, I finally found my inner strength to quit.
My special thanks goes to the person responsible for the new icons set design as well to many of you developers, blind and deaf to all unhappy comments on this tread, that was the key of my success.
Do you by any chance have any suggestion how can I quit smoking? |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 22:26:22 -
[1280] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:E6o5 wrote:day one of the War: Tyler Durden Demolitions vs. C C P Alliance: they choose to stay docked, probably due to crappy icons. hahahahaha ... good one ... i can hear it now: CCP Pilot1: ok these new icons ... which one is the war target? CCP Pilot2: the red ones duh! CCP Pilot1: wait, thats a NPC, im confused! CCP Pilot2: oh damnit, we should have done this better! ok that was mean of me ... im sorry ... lol ...
The new Eve mini-game: PvPvCCP thread-dec. They're not undocking, hmmmm.... Ingame that has a name. It's not a nice one. I'm waiting for that 'classic icon' option, but my patience has limits. I gave these eye-straino-vision a solid 3+ hours today, doing more than nomming space rocks. Nope, they really do need to go away, or at least give that choice opt-out.
I'm not 'getting used' to a painful skull, right eye socket, and flat out confusion/frustration figuring out what the kludge is what in a rat clearing mission. If CCP pays for Lasic surgery and all follow up appointments, along with pain med fill charges, then I'll fly silent on this. Until then, icons bad, give us a choice since we are paying customers. So far player made ideas for new icons hold more water than what we've had foisted on us.
One two three four, Baron and Serpent Productions declares thread war against C C P Alliance. Willing to cancel it as soon as 'classic icon' choice available. I can be reasonable.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 22:30:05 -
[1281] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote:I don't want to sound rude, but if this is not sarcasm but actual reality, then you might have a game addiction problem. Gaming addiction? No such thing. * downs a Mtn Dew in one gulp * Just the other day I was chatting with a corpie on coms when this very subject came up. During the convo he was complaining about hearing what I was doing in the bathroom because of my wireless mic. I just told him the wireless mic was necessary because there are some things that a bottle beside the computer desk just cant take care of. He proceeded to point out that I might have a gaming problem because he overheard my conversation with the city official talking about how tall my grass was and how they were gonna charge me if they had to come out and cut it. Can you imagine the nerve of those people? I think I lost a few million isk on the market because of that interruption and I told the official I was going to look into getting that isk back when next I talked to my internet lawyer friend on Eve. * grabs tissue to stop todays nose bleed while downing a Mtn Dew * Anyways, the corpie also pointed out how I lost my job recently. He implied it was because of my forum warrioring while I was at work. I told him the boss was being unreasonable and I was looking for a new job anyway. Just like my last job. They actually tracked my total internet use and came up with some absurd numbers like my spending 6 hours a day commenting on the forums and how I wasn't productive as an employee. Yea, I left that place straight away. * downs another Mtn Dew * Haha! Did you see that? What? Yes, I'm fine. Why does everyone keep asking me that? Gaming addiction. Pfft!!!
I miss Surge. Gamer fuel +1 for those of us that don't Jolt Cola. (chugs her bottle of Vault, opens the next from the flat sitting near the computer desk) What gaming addiction, that doesn't exist.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Catelyn Stoneheart
C.Q.B Snuffed Out
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 22:52:12 -
[1282] - Quote
Obligatory post saying I also hate the new icons. Give us an option to use the old ones if we want please!!! |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
53
|
Posted - 2015.06.06 22:55:32 -
[1283] - Quote
Catelyn Stoneheart wrote:Obligatory post saying I also hate the new icons. Give us an option to use the old ones if we want please!!!
Yep. Make it happen CCP. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 00:35:26 -
[1284] - Quote
In addition to being able to choose a highlight color (vs. the current hard-coded yellow), it would be nice if you could highlight the background, or the whole row of the overlay, similar to what you can configure for player ships.
Yellow would probably be fine if all the text were yellow, not just the icon. |
Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 01:12:42 -
[1285] - Quote
By scrapping these ridiculous icons and reverting to the old ones, CCP could go a long way toward mitigating the damage it has done to its relationship with the player community. The new icons are awful!!! They really are.
CCP, as much as we all love this game, there are many others out there that treat their players with more respect. |
ARMED1
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 05:12:33 -
[1286] - Quote
OK so for any of us who actually PVP and want to quickly and easily identify anything ship related, I have found one viable work around for the current terribad overview situation. I will share here so hopefully others can benefit from it as well.
1. Undock our ship and get safe.
2. Right click your overview menu and open "Overview Settings"
3. Go to the tab for "Appearance" and then to the subtab for "Background" this is where you can set a background color for other pilots. I suggest using the powder blue color that is currently the default for a pilot with a mutual engagement timer bc it is really only used for that and it wont conflict with other background colors.
4. Go to the box for a pilot who shares a mutual engagement timer and change the color for that background from the powder blue color to yellow (or whatever color you want)
5. Then sccroll toward the bottom of the background window. At the bottom you will see choices for all the non alliance and non corp affiliated pilots. They will read things like "Pilot has neutral standing" etc .etc. etc. Check all these boxes and then to the right change all these colors to the light powder blue color.
Once that is done any pilot who is not in your corp, in your alliance, criminal, suspect or mutual engagement timer should then show in light blue.
This will help because now anytime you are on grid with another pilot the background will show light blue for them and they wont get lost in the clutter. Of course use some common sense because my description is very general on how to do this. It wasnt meant to be a tutorial just a suggestion on a workaround.
Test your overview first in some non combat situations just to make sure its all ok.
Hope that helps others who were as frustrated as me. BTW just for CCP - I still hate the icons. And no change isnt ALWAYS good. |
TuCZnak
My Private Tax Shelter
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 05:30:34 -
[1287] - Quote
Obligatory "I hate the icons too" post just so I don't feel bad for doing nothing when they decide everything is OK and old icons are not coming back. Tried them after Carnyx deployment for like 6 hours doing multiple things, haven't logged in since. Subs for all my accounts cancelled, since why pay for a game that's unplayable for me now, because devs actively broke it while knowing about the feedback from test server and scaling issues. And their answer is just "get used to it"... |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 05:48:59 -
[1288] - Quote
Few more security missions and selling junk runs, still not 'getting used' to the physical pain these icons are giving my poor skull and right eye socket. Nope, gimme back my 'classic icons' because this has gone beyond silly to headache inducing. All the corrective vision options I have won't solve this, CCP can by giving that option.
You're about to owe me for a bottle of Excedrin Migraine at this rate. Name brand pain killers are not cheap. Down to one account active, this is cramping researching BPOs style, killing ISK income, and infuriating me that the last reply was a few days ago with a memo of 'get used to them.'
Not. Happening.
Your customers are speaking. An option to use older icon set ASAP PDQ Nowzers.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
gargars
The Tebo Corp
130
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 06:32:28 -
[1289] - Quote
Normally I cut CCP a lot of slack, and yes change takes some getting used to... BUT.... after several days of playing....
The new icons are ridiculous. I can't see what purpose they provide, and I do not like to have to WORK in a game I have enjoyed for so long re-memorizing a bunch of hideous icons for no real reason. Eve is already too much like a second job. Why make that WORSE? Why ignore the feedback on sisi? Why ignore the feedback HERE? |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 07:13:07 -
[1290] - Quote
At least my overview setups are now more elite-pvp after Carnyx. I've had to at last remove stargates and stations from my standard pvp tab. |
|
MoonCat79
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 07:20:40 -
[1291] - Quote
i'd like the old icons back |
bump bunny
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 07:22:18 -
[1292] - Quote
MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back
me too |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
324
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 07:33:28 -
[1293] - Quote
gargars wrote:Normally I cut CCP a lot of slack, and yes change takes some getting used to... BUT.... after several days of playing....
The new icons are ridiculous. I can't see what purpose they provide, and I do not like to have to WORK in a game I have enjoyed for so long re-memorizing a bunch of hideous icons for no real reason. Eve is already too much like a second job. Why make that WORSE? Why ignore the feedback on sisi? Why ignore the feedback HERE?
100% agree. The most upsetting part is that all of the feedback from the test server seems to have been completely ignored.
After several days, I too have a lot of issues distinguishing types. Please allow players to use the old set - they were completely fine and useable. My game experience is worse off for not being able to read the overview correctly.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 08:08:48 -
[1294] - Quote
bump bunny wrote:MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back me too
me too |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 08:34:57 -
[1295] - Quote
Grubgrafter wrote:bump bunny wrote:MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back me too me too Same here, please bring old icons back.
|
noney bunny
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 09:11:18 -
[1296] - Quote
cant stand the new ones, like the old ones back |
Cartheron Crust
Matari Exodus The Camel Empire
171
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 09:38:11 -
[1297] - Quote
Spc One wrote:Grubgrafter wrote:bump bunny wrote:MoonCat79 wrote:i'd like the old icons back me too me too Same here, please bring old icons back.
This. All I need from the brackets/icons is to know if it is a ship or not. Then I can read the next column to see what it is. As it is the icons look very similar no matter what they are and although I get what the intended outcome was, the actual result is more complexity for zero gain. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 09:56:37 -
[1298] - Quote
ARMED1 wrote:OK so for any of us who actually PVP and want to quickly and easily identify anything ship related, I have found one viable work around for the current terribad overview situation. I will share here so hopefully others can benefit from it as well. That is what Eli Stan has been done and doing for a long time now, even before Carnyx hit and he also mentioned this a couple of times in this topic to share his experiences c: Glad to see this workaround works for others.
However... the more people find a workaround to get along with the overview icons again, the more people will be able to play the game again, which means CCP could default back to "players adapt, the change is fine." I'm not saying they will, but... you know. It also reduces the amount of people having a problem. It diminishes our message of "CCP , you did a stupid, remove it."
Just like CCP Rise said that Veterans will help new players out of the opportunity mess anyway. That might probably the reason why opportunities have not been touched since about 2 months, based on sisi status.
So I don't want to sound like an angry or intentionally bad person, because I'm not. I just think sharing experiences of how things can be tweaked currently are not helpful to the cause.
We need a solution to this issue that does not require players to arbitrarily change their style of playing. We need a solution on a developer level, not a player level. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13329
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 10:34:58 -
[1299] - Quote
What was wrong with the old system, anyway?
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Galen Dnari
Damage Unlimited
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 10:47:18 -
[1300] - Quote
Has there ever been a patch in which players didnt find something to ***** about? No? That's what I thought.
http://eveboard.com/ub/1939472205-31.png
|
|
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 10:54:26 -
[1301] - Quote
Galen Dnari wrote:Has there ever been a patch in which players didnt find something to ***** about? No? That's what I thought.
Sometimes there are false alarms, therefore there are never real fires? |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 11:09:24 -
[1302] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:What was wrong with the old system, anyway?
Galen Dnari wrote:Has there ever been a patch in which players didnt find something to ***** about? No? That's what I thought.
*sighs* Oblivious and ignorant people like you make it much more difficult to communicate properly with the developers, since they have to sift through the rubble to find the useful information worth reading.
Louanne Barros wrote:There is one good point, and that is the introduction of icons/brackets for things that previously had none, like 'Biomass'; this makes it easier to avoid being decloaked by such objects. Anything that can decloak you should have an icon, in my opinion. I noticed I totally forgot to reply to this, sorry :c I'm wondering if it really is that important for everything to have an icon? I mean, sometimes the absence of an icon can me a much better indicator than the presence of one, especially when we look at their interactivity. By the way, is anyone else having trouble deciphering the corpse as a corpse? It looks more like a rocket or torpedo to me. Even at 100% scaling Oh and, Louanne; an icon does not help if people don't even have those things added to the overview in the first place *giggles* |
Yokadesch
Space-Brewery-Association Did he say Jump
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 11:19:58 -
[1303] - Quote
I dont like the new icons - we have now ~125 (???) different icons ingame. I just dont want to learn this.
I also dont think you are right with the idea behind the new icons. If I fight a cruiser gang I dont care so much about if they all sitting in cruiser and 4 in frigs and 2 in dessis. I still have to check shiptypes so i can kill ecm and logi first and so on.
If you check this thread I think over 80% of the player dont like them - so please give us back the old stuff
The rest of the patch is nice - I like the idea behind the new SOV System |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
507
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 11:29:52 -
[1304] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: We are aware of issues at 90% UI Scaling and we are looking at better ways to handle this. The issue is with UI Scaling and not the new icons.
CCP Claymore wrote:Panterata wrote:Hey Lebowski, who is responsible for the icons?
Tell him to write something here on the players and not hide as a mouse! That would be me and my team, Team Game of Drones. We are reading the feedback you are providing. All I can say at the moment is please take some time to get used to the new icons if this is the first time you are seeing them. It has been a while since they last changed, if ever, and it will take a while to learn them again. We are aware that the new icons do not look great with 90% UI Scaling. This is an issue we are looking at but is a bigger project due to the nature of UI Scaling. We are monitoring your feedback and will try and respond to your issues and concerns. Thank you for all your feedback so far. Will getting "UI scaling" right also fix the issue with the icons in space being blurry and indistinct? Or do we just play with "hide all brackets" and not see them at all? Will it make the oh so very subtle differences between some of the icons clear enough to be easily visible if your not using a UHD monitor? Subtle grey filling doesn't show up well, if at all in all but the darkest areas of space. A line under a triangle is not immediately obvious as a different ship when you have graphics set for performance.
It isn't a simple matter of taking time to get used to them, no-one should have to get used to something that is blurry and not well defined.
You could try using them on the type of hardware the average player uses, then you may have some idea what we are supposed to "get used to". You really want to do what is best for the game? Roll back the icons to what has worked and worked well for the last 12 years. When (if) you get a set of new icons that are suitable (current ones aren't, sorry), introduce them then but only after proper testing and feedback, that is actually listened to.
So much feedback on SISI said they were bad and you dumped them on us anyway. "Dumped" is the only suitable word, as they simply don't go close to qualifying as an "update".
PS; Isn't thanking us for feedback your ignoring just a little hypocritical ?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
300
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 12:17:28 -
[1305] - Quote
day two of the War: Tyler Durden Demolitions vs. C C P Alliance: they still haven't learnt the new icons and therefore refuse to undock |
Sullen Bear
Arctic Spirit
24
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 12:54:04 -
[1306] - Quote
6th day. New icons still terrible. Need old icons back. The reason was explained early. |
Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1676
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 13:00:11 -
[1307] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:What was wrong with the old system, anyway?
I guessCCP thought it didn't gave enough specific information. Just like the information overlay when you hover over a sun icon where next to it in the overview you can read that it's a sun, the information overlay tells you once more that the icon is a sun. Apparently CCP thinks the player base' combined IQ went down below that of a chimp.
And CCP needed new icons for the '5' people behind 4k monitors.
Instead of writing a script:
if 4k (then use crap icons);
they saddled us all up with this garbage. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 13:06:00 -
[1308] - Quote
Just a little thing of constructive feedback to keep the mind rolling by repeating the obvious, because I think it is time again for some:
Old player ships: Open lines at corners in rectangle / square shape with no fills Old NPC ships: filled crosses of varying size and different colour than player ships. Old celestials: closed lines with no fills (except sun)
New player ships: Closed lines with no fills except unimportant things like shuttle and rookie ship) in 4 shapes: triangle, diamond, "bulbish" and rounded trapezoid. New NPC ships: same like player ships, except different colour New celestials: closed lines with some transparency fill. Icon overload for structures.
It boggles my mind how even reading these concept differences and impasses could pass QA.
The rest of this reply is dedicated to darkchild's corpse and Myriad Blaze, and IGÇÖm sorry for the less detailed reply here, but it is not feasible to comment every little thing individually :c
IGÇÖm very sure both of your scale tests will never look like what the engine does ingame. Most people doing scaled mockups make the mistake of scaling the ENTIRE finished concept image instead of scaling each icon individually. The results look vastly different. Even if scaling the exact same size of the icon, most scaling algorithms are of at least bilinear quality, but usually itGÇÖs the (even better) bicubic quality. This is problematic for tests because even bilinear looks better than how eve scales icons. Take the icon sheet they submitted, scale one icon there in photoshop or whatever you use, and compare it to what you see in the actual game. The difference is mindboggling. If Eve used a better scaling algorithm, things only would be half as bad. Still bad though.
So judging by that alone, every scaling attempt of you will look better than what it would look like ingame. And your icons will also look better to the people reading here, because you present your icons in a concept-style fashion, and only use a small sample of icons. You donGÇÖt add tags to obstruct the bottom right corner, and you donGÇÖt paste those icons into a screenshot of the overview frame to compare them to each individually or to other icons. This is the reason why many concepts look good when presented like that, but they are completely worthless when putting them where they are supposed to work.
That said, I see more merit in MyriadGÇÖs second attempt to adapt in the style of the new icons, than in darkchildGÇÖs corpse attempt to re-invent the old icons, even if we ignore scaling.
darkchild's corpse wrote:1) if you go for the top row, simply do what they did with the old icons: shrink them vertically
2) in my opinion we don't need to have that many different icons for industrial ships in general. in my opinion the icons should make the decision to run or to fight easier. i don't run from industrial ships :D i play the game since years and i know what i personally would expect. and this is what i create my suggestions based on. unfortunately i can't simply put the icons into the game to test them. CCP... y u no give me source code? :D
3) the smaller each information is displayed, the more information you can view at the same time. 1) So by doing what you suggest, squishing them vertically, your icon design choice becomes more limited, and you have to come up with clearly distinguishable new shapes. You might manage that, and I'm sure I'm sure they will work in 100% scaling, but we need to deliver 90% properly. Else your Freighters and Rorquals will close their brackets on the side. And then youGÇÖll still have the same problem of making those icons separate enough from OTHER types of icons.
2) Not only do you make a contradicting statement, but it is also just your opinion and playstyle. You're letting this influence your design choices, so your experience with the game matters little in this case. It will bias the issues you want to see fixed, while ignoring others. See, you NEED to distinguish combat ships from non-combat ships and those have to be distinguishable from everything else too. You want to know what you DON'T need to shoot, and you want to see non-combat ships properly if you are aiming for them specifically. Overview filters don't matter in this case. There are many people doing pvp who have all ship types on their overview, because why let a non-combat ship get away, right? c: So you NEED the distinction to be clear.
3) That is not true. The smaller your space becomes, the less choices for shapes and variations you have and the harder people with smaller screens or less than ideal eyesight or both will be negatively affected. In fact, most of the time it is the relative amount of UNUSED space which makes the grade or not. Because this unused space allows for better visibility of what the rest of the icon is, and the unused space also allows for more spacing from one icon to the next.
Myriad Blaze wrote:I assume that would be mine. I wasn't assaulting your persona c: I did not even link your name to the image! I just looked at the work, looked at the current icons and for several reasons that are not relevant any more due to your update, I felt any benefit you added was outweighed by something worse, and we were still on the same "bad" level as the original designs. Your second attempt is definitely better, but if I scale them as bad as I can (which is still better than how eve would scale them) and add a colour tag to the bottom right, there are still icons which are too similar to each other, while others get confusing.
I get hysterical giggles whenever I see a cruiser or battlecruiser on the overview because every single time I think; "look, someone build a house in space!" especially when there are so many of them. It is Monopoly online with "radiation blur" mod enabled. |
Vivien Meally
Des-Meisters-Lakaien Brothers of Tangra
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 13:07:30 -
[1309] - Quote
Day 6 after this horrible icon patch. And the Icons are still bad. |
Tara Eves
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 14:08:14 -
[1310] - Quote
Vivien Meally wrote:Day 6 after this horrible icon patch. And the Icons are still bad.
I resisted the temptation to complain right off the bat - I too thought give it a few days, get used to it.
No they suck - the old icons were much, much simpler and in this case simpler was BETTER.
A square brackety box was a player, a cross was an NPC and that's all we needed - now I have to read the text on the overview before I can tell if the icon I am looking at is a player or not.
This idea is awful, it needs to be rolled back. |
|
Lahnius
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 14:38:34 -
[1311] - Quote
Terminus Antollare wrote:I like the new icons. There I said it
... nothing wrong with that ... lol ... some do like them, some dont ...
... i think that what most everyone would like to have the option to choose old or new icons ... or at the very least be able to ease into it somehow, or make small changes to the new idea ... |
teloded
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 14:51:15 -
[1312] - Quote
Vivien Meally wrote:Day 6 after this horrible icon patch. And the Icons are still bad.
My problem with the the Icon change it that it is now harder to tell the difference between players and NPC's. Also I would have to say if you want to change the icon by all means CCP you are the game creators but maybe next time make icons that are easier to learn. |
teloded
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 14:53:50 -
[1313] - Quote
Ida Aurlien wrote:teloded wrote:I would have to say that fozzy sov will most likely be game breaking for smaller corps and alliances. Large groups can now harrass smaller groups they would normally not target. Bring a bs or cruiser fleet start shutting down services, any hostile response can be crushed easily. once every thing is turned off go to the next system. the targeted corp will undock to turn back on their services only to have them turned back off in a hour. production goes down, income goes down. people more likely to move back to high sec where they dont have to worry about any of this. Only been under fozzy sov test for 2 days and people are all ready leaving null sec. Good job ccp
Do you really think they care
Well if CCP wants people out in Null sec they should care. They have changed a lot of things to make Null sec more appealing. but this takes all that back. People shoudl want to go out to Null for the open PVP, the profit and the PVE. fozzy sov will be the main reason people will not want to go into Null sec corps, unless its one of the bigger corps and alliances |
Ryan Richards
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 16:04:56 -
[1314] - Quote
As a casual observer to this thread over the last several days, and numerous hours of trying to adjust to the new Icons, I'd like CCP to add me to the HATE THE NEW ICON group. A lot of people have said it better than I could about what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. Personally, I would just prefer the old system.
Based on your refusal? to take into consideration the previous feedback provided to you about proposed changes Icons, one can only assume that you have told your player base, "Here's your crap sandwich, get used to it, and enjoy".
I have three paying accounts and I am seriously considering finding something else to do with my entertainment money! |
Black Ambulance
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 16:15:20 -
[1315] - Quote
Ryan Richards wrote:As a casual observer to this thread over the last several days, and numerous hours of trying to adjust to the new Icons, I'd like CCP to add me to the HATE THE NEW ICON group. A lot of people have said it better than I could about what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. Personally, I would just prefer the old system.
Based on your refusal? to take into consideration the previous feedback provided to you about proposed changes Icons, one can only assume that you have told your player base, "Here's your crap sandwich, get used to it, and enjoy".
I have three paying accounts and I am seriously considering finding something else to do with my entertainment money!
Well said !! , Add me to the HATE THE NEW ICON group too.
But , I think nothing going to change as the previous feedback thread regarding the new icons filled up with disappointed feedbacks too and CCP completely ignored it. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
86
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 16:59:18 -
[1316] - Quote
Black Ambulance wrote:But , I think nothing going to change as the previous feedback thread regarding the new icons filled up with disappointed feedbacks too and CCP completely ignored it.
A hypothetical day at the CCP office:
UI Designer 1: So... they didn't like any of the icon sets we proposed. Manager: We can't spend much more time on that, we need a decision. UI Designer 1: Shouldn't we shelve it for later? Manager: We put it on schedule, so we will deliver it. We need your team free to work on other things. UI Designer 2: Honestly, the feedback we got was way too one-dimensional, I don't think they're seeing the bigger picture. If we take every change into consideration, then we have to spend more time getting the rest together which hasn't been touched. Manager: Both of you are not helping, even though what both of you say has merit. Still, they're not UI developers, and you are. I can draw pixels in paint too, that doesn't mean they work as intended. UI Designer 1: I disagree, our playerbase bring up a lot of valid points, and their feedback and mockups are on the right track too. UI Designer 2: That doesn't matter, even if we decide to go that route, we can't use those mockups. UI Designer 1: What? CCP Lawyer: We can't use player created mockups as part of our client for legal reasons. UI Designer 1: You've got to be kidding me... UI Designer 2: Tough luck. I guess we have to ship this. Too many mockups and ideas are around, this does not leave us with much space to find something else in between and we're running out of time anyway. Manager: Indeed, all very problematic. Well... let's just ship it, and take the flak, maybe we can work something out during this sh!tstorm. UI Designer 2: Sounds about right. UI Designer 1: I'm NOT agreeing with this... there has to be a better way and we can't let the next thing happen like that again! Manager: I'm sorry, that is not your call to make. You can't see in the future how it will work out, forum population is just a small part of the playerbase. We will ship it, and see what happens to player count and subscription changes. There is no point speculating.
*... sometime in the future, a UI designer silently leaves the company.* |
Mark Yanning
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 17:21:09 -
[1317] - Quote
Hello guys, please add me as well into the HATE THE NEW ICON group.
After several days of discussion and many (bad) feedbacks from pilots about new icons I really wanna make CCP only few easy questions.
-CCP, are you going to keep this new icons system?
-Is there any possibility we can choose to be back to the old system? (sigh)
-Are you aware of the hundreds/thousands complains about the new icons?
-Do you know that for many pilots now (especially the pvp ones), the gaming experience of Eve is a nightmare with the new icons?
-Can you please give customers/pilots/capsulers any sort of answer about future plan on icons?
Many thanks
Mark Yanning Ceo "Give us old icons or fix it please" |
Captain Nuf
Zeura Brotherhood Mordus Angels
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 17:27:01 -
[1318] - Quote
I like the new icons. I understand that someone worked hard on them and that lots of people hates em. Just make them toggleable in General Settings or something. I see them as an improvement and I got used to them and appreciate them, but for #^$&'s sake, I need my CEO to undock and shoot stuff and he hates the icons. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 18:46:30 -
[1319] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: .......................... Manager: I'm sorry, that is not your call to make. You can't see in the future how it will work out, forum population is just a small part of the playerbase. We will ship it, and see what happens to player count and subscription changes. There is no point speculating. ........ [/i]
.... a very well done piece on the speculative discussions in the CCP dev teams
I want to stress especially the quoted part, about just ignoring those (always complaining) forum warriors, that always make the most noise but actually dont matter THAT much - cause its true in many cases
BUT NOT IN ALL
Just look at my personal case - I havent cared to post on the forums for almost 2 years..... how did this change lately?!
The simple reason is in some HORRIBLE DESIGN DECISIONS that question the way I like to play this game and the time I invested in it! (be it the unusable new map for scanning or this icon debacle)
Dear CCP, when people like me start posting in your forums you can safely assume that something is going horribly wrong ..... you have all the statistics, just take your time and check if its just me.
To add some constructive ideas: Perhaps it wasnt the brightest idea to accelerate the release schedule like you did (for quite some different reasons)
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Andy Lorentz
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 20:21:44 -
[1320] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I agree NPC distinction is rather nuanced with the new icon set - NPC icons have a faint inner fill compared to players ships.
It is far too subtle a distinction, particularly in Min/Amarr FW space with red/orange backgrounds and whether the icon is filled or not is not easy to see immediately. |
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Salo LaZuri
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 20:54:01 -
[1321] - Quote
My biggest complaint with the new ship icons is that they blend too much with the other icons. The previous ones were basically blank spaces and stood out more, now I have a hard time telling the difference between them and celestials.
I wish there was a way to change the color of different icons or make them stand out more. |
Strykr X
X-COM Navy Gentlemen's.Parlor
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 21:18:34 -
[1322] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:
Just look at my personal case - I havent cared to post on the forums for almost 2 years..... how did this change lately?!
Exact same situation for me. The fact I'm bothering to post on the forums at all should be a big warning flag that the icon issue hits wide on the playerbase, not just a few veterans really deeply.
I do not like the new neocom icons at all compared to the previous ones, and it has already been months attempting to adjust to that. These new overview icons feel much more insulting now that I expect, like the neocom icons, that we will never be allowed to use the previous overview icons again.
I understand that CCP is trying to make EVE feel more like a "space" game, but FFS, the recent changes force me to notice just how drab and gray everything is.
And in case CCP doesn't understand basic human psychology, GRAY=DEPRESSION. It'd be just great if only my character felt the depression of living in a bleak hyper-capitalist utopia, but my HUMAN BRAIN playing the game is the one that feels the sadness from the UI changes.
Eve pilots should be able to live happily if they so choose, because they get to be IMMORTAL in a universe where mortals are generally not even given a moment of thought. You can bet your ass that Dust players feel a hell of a lot more "alive" in their world, despite the fact they know they are eminently disposable.
Seriously CCP, what are you doing? |
Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 21:31:11 -
[1323] - Quote
Just wanted to chime in and note that the new icon set is just pants-on-head-stupid.
Not gonna rehash all the issues noted already, but I HATE it. |
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 21:42:51 -
[1324] - Quote
Well its Monday tomorrow, I'm seriously hoping CCP have a meeting and ditch these icons and soon!
The quietest Sunday ops this alliance has had in years, peeps are just not fleeting up 'cos of the confusion these icons cause....
The longer CCP leaves it the more disenchanted peeps will become, particularly when CCP go awol which is interpreted as not listening to their customer base... |
Drake Barski
Someone Else's Problem Circle-Of-Two
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 21:48:37 -
[1325] - Quote
CAPTAIN CRIMSON HAWK wrote:I do like having a way to identify at a glace the class of ships, very much a step in the right direction.
As do I. My only issue is the similarity between icons - putting a line underneath to differentiate frig from destroyer is okay, but then they do the same for cruisers, and each time I see that, I think at first it's a destroyer instead of the larger class ship. I'd really like to see a chevron over the bigger ship icon (/\) because that would still make it show it's larger than the standard 'house-shape' icon, but it would also allow a clear differentiation from the destroyer icon, too. That would be another step in the right direction - making shiptypes easily discernible.
In addition to my first post, since I've had the chance to view a few different icons, I'd like to add the following:
I LOVE the wormhole icon - looks very unique & accurate. Sentry batteries similar modules I like, too. There was more, but I cannot recall at the moment. |
Kujun Nashja
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 22:19:02 -
[1326] - Quote
This is feedback on the new Icons.
My Background: Solo/small Scale PvP / Exploration PvE. Tested the new overview and brackets on SiSi before it was implemented on TQ. Had some days to let the changes sink in now.
Major issues i encountered:
- NPC- and Playericons have the same shape while featuring different coloring:
Huge NoNo! In a Universe where human players pose the biggest threat, the one thing that has to work reliably is that you are able to distinguish a player from a NPC in no time. NPCs need a distinct set of icons. The FN/Concord Icons are basically identical to respective player icons. I have huge problems recognizing players entering a grid when there are NPC icons on my current overview. Also: Visually impaired people. Same goes for drones: Allthough different from player icons, many of them now feature the same basic shape (triangle), which makes it much harder to quickly identify the overview icons when you are not focusing on them.
- Details of Icons (namely Beacons, Sun, Structures, Deployables, Belts) :
I actually think that the different player ship icons are fine and i dind-¦t expect to distinguish them from each other in so little time, even in hectic situations. I like them and think that the additional information they display helps with identifying stuff on your overview and in space. What i found to be an issue is the detail level of other icons. It-¦s just way to high. Again this is an issue for threat assessment in peripheral vision. The detail level of non player/non NPC icons clutters up the overview and i need to take a closer look each time something pops up.
Minor issues:
- Edged shape of the stargate icon:
The celestial that is probably the most common round shape on overviews and gets selected for warping, broadcasting, aligning, etc. the most. A rectangular shape makes it less distinct from station and container icons. This is only a very minor problem. But i wish that in numerous situations throughout the past few days, i would have been able to recognize the stargate icons earlier.
Overall i think that the new icons don-¦t look all that bad. The additional information carried by player ship icons is helpful and just needs some time to get used to. It-¦s the discriminability between player icons and icons of secondary concern that causes alot of trouble. |
Circumstantial Evidence
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 22:26:02 -
[1327] - Quote
The rectangles had to go. Let's not forget that CCP responded to feedback after the initial dev blog, and reworked the entire concept. I think this new set is more practical than the heavily styled original set, which I think needed high resolution to differentiate them, due to the... consistent style.
I'm still getting used to them, "Oh, what's THIS one I haven't noticed before - " but I will get used to them, and whatever other curveballs CCP cares to throw. |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
126
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 22:45:28 -
[1328] - Quote
I'd get used to only having one leg but that doesn't mean i wasn't better off with two. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
327
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 23:06:46 -
[1329] - Quote
Just posting to let you know, I still am having extreme trouble with these damn new icons.
Please, PLEASE let us have the old icons.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
508
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 23:08:12 -
[1330] - Quote
New neocom icons - Boring, indistinct at a glance and just left there for players to "get used to"
New Map, just left there in the hope people will "just get used to it", faults and all.
New Icons, going the same way?
This is a slippery slope, where is the bottom? Is the ladder tall enough for CCP to climb back to where they used to be? Forget about going higher on the ladder (for now) just get back to what used to be suitable and usable.
I would so love to have a job where I get to just ignore customers and do as I please.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
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Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 23:11:33 -
[1331] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:The rectangles had to go. Let's not forget that CCP responded to feedback after the initial dev blog, and reworked the entire concept. I think this new set is more practical than the heavily styled original set, which I think needed high resolution to differentiate them, due to the... consistent style. I'm still getting used to them, "Oh, what's THIS one I haven't noticed before - " but I will get used to them, and whatever other curveballs CCP cares to throw.
67 pages and a vast majority seem more inclined to the idea that the rectangles didn't HAVE to go
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Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 23:38:24 -
[1332] - Quote
This thread is roughly over 1320'ish posts. I'd wager about 1300 of them thusfar are "critical" about the overview icons. In that people don't care for them, and would rather an alternative solution be found.
Edit: Alternative = roll back to the old until a better solution is found.
This would be a great time to tap into your CSM resources. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13334
|
Posted - 2015.06.07 23:45:26 -
[1333] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: *sighs* Oblivious and ignorant people like you make it much more difficult to communicate properly with the developers, since they have to sift through the rubble to find the useful information worth reading.
Excuse me?
First of all "I hate it" is perfectly acceptable feedback, since apparently they didn't listen to the feedback from the test server and just rolled it out anyway.
Secondly, where do you get off telling anyone what their reactions to this UI change should or should not be? How do you possibly have the gall to say **** like that?
I am here precisely to communicate "properly" with the developers. My communication consists of the following:
"This is a bad change."
"This change was also implemented badly."
"This did not need to be changed in the first place. If you think it did, explain your reasoning."
"Change for it's own sake is bad, so if that's why you did this, revert it as fast as is possible."
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Ddolik
Viscosity Fidelas Constans
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 00:22:22 -
[1334] - Quote
the overview icons.. damn you ccp... not this, please just let us turn that **** off and go the old one |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
94
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 00:40:35 -
[1335] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:1) First of all "I hate it" is perfectly acceptable feedback, since apparently they didn't listen to the feedback from the test server and just rolled it out anyway.
2) Secondly, where do you get off telling anyone what their reactions to this UI change should or should not be? How do you possibly have the gall to say **** like that?
3) I am here precisely to communicate "properly" with the developers. My communication consists of the following: "This is a bad change." "This change was also implemented badly." "This did not need to be changed in the first place. If you think it did, explain your reasoning." "Change for it's own sake is bad, so if that's why you did this, revert it as fast as is possible."
Let me repeat what you said before. Your question was:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:What was wrong with the old system, anyway? You have been pretty active in this topic. That means, the question has been answered a multitude of times, even in just this topic alone. Other answers can be found throughout the other topics regarding icons, including the devblog.
1) No, "I hate it" is not feedback, but a reaction only portraying an opinion. Feedback is, when you're giving a reason what made your opinion form like that. It would be much more useful to say: "I hate it because I am colourblind and can't make out NPCs from Player ships" or something like "I hate it because now with the detailed icons the UI scaling hits alot worse" or maybe even "I hate it because you re-used icons for something completely different that we already associated since years".
2) I'm not telling anyone what their REACTIONS should be. Like I mentioned just above, you're around long enough in this topic to know better, and I'm sure you can connect information when you're reading it.
3) Your communication is based on assertions that are only half correct. The change was implemented badly, yes, but it has been said that the old icons would need to change sooner or later, and they explained their reasons. This makes it not being a "change for change sake." even if they had not explained their reasons, the obvious things for the change are obvious. That doesn't make the way (non beta opt-in) and the style of the icons any better though.
Maybe you understand now why I said "ignorant and oblivious". This was not a wilful assault on your persona, but simply my opinion of your previous message. If you take this too personal, I advise you to take a step back and reconsider.
Now, letting this slide and bringing something more constructive to the topic again:
Dear CCP, since one of your reasons to redesign the icons to be compatible for larger screens to remain future-proof, then why have you not worked on your scaling algorithm first? And if you were so concerned about legibility, why did you not make sure your system supports loading of individual iconsets for each scale? One of the biggest benefits of manually crafted sets is the ability to separate between global UI scale and Overview scale. This could potentially lead you to have the UI at 90% but use the 110% sized overview icons.
So, to be blunt, what was your reason to only go 90% of the way instead of the full 100% ? Creating 3 additional sets once one has been designed and completed is hardly any effort. |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1675
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 00:41:04 -
[1336] - Quote
still not liking these icons... Yes, i can get used to them but.... they are still like those pictures my 9yo daughter draws....
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 01:15:21 -
[1337] - Quote
Remember when you could tell a Thrasher from a Capsule out of the corner of your eye, after a few drinks?
Good times. "EVE: Some of the Second Decade" |
Colonel Tosh
Swamphole Inc. Swamphole
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 01:41:13 -
[1338] - Quote
I am highly disappointed in the new icons for a plethora of reasons.
The main reasons for me are:
1. The quality of these icons is very low compared to what I expected from CCP. 2. They are nowhere near the quality they put forward in the dev blog a while back. 3. The icons are too small and do not transfer well to the grid. 4. There is too much complication that isn't worked out well, and without a transitional period for people who aren't always on SiSi. It results in confusion in battles and loss of ships because of it, which I think is a pretty bad side effect.
But the biggest problem I have with these icons is that people have been complaining about the way they were in their test stage, and yet CCP had to ram it down the throat of people. I am sorry, but I really don't enjoy a majority of the new icons.
That said, positive icons are Wormholes and Corpses. |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
157
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 03:49:42 -
[1339] - Quote
The good:
The icon overhaul. It could be better, certainly a few icons are awful, but overall, the idea of ship size relating to specific shapes appeals. Glad you guys took a page out of Homeworld's book there.
Release of the jackdaw. More content is always good.
The bad:
New caracals look awful. I'm going to let my sub lapse for 10-15 days to demonstrate my lack of appreciation for these "new" models. They don't look caldari. You have all the old models of caldari design to work with, and you make the ships look like a Transformers movie. Its got no style, no distinction, from the mass of stuff that's already out there. I'd be happier if you guys just ripped off some old privateer ship designs compared to the over the top polygon loading.
Some of the icons look silly. I especially want the old stargate icon back. A nice circle vs a square with rounded corners? I feel people respond more to the elegance of the simple circle-with-triangle icon.
There is currently a billing error with CCP regarding Paypal, which is asking for a credit card and recurring subs, both of which have not been required in the past. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=423499&find=unread
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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
384
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 05:00:31 -
[1340] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:And if you were so concerned about legibility, why did you not make sure your system supports loading of individual iconsets for each scale? One of the biggest benefits of manually crafted sets is the ability to separate between global UI scale and Overview scale. This could potentially lead you to have the UI at 90% but use the 110% sized overview icons.
So, to be blunt, what was your reason to only go 90% of the way instead of the full 100% ? Creating 3 additional sets once one has been designed and completed is hardly any effort. And making sure your basic software architecture works properly before considering such a big step should have been your primary concern before even touching the icons. This!
Handcrafted icons for different size scales are probably always better than icons that are scaled using a software algorism - at least with regard to looks.
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
143
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 05:12:26 -
[1341] - Quote
I'm actually heading to sleep as Iceland gets ready for their working day, but two thoughts if the icons -have- to stay because the heads of the corporation said so: Thicken the borders so they aren't so eye-straining. Differentiate more by color. Is that a player or an NPC? Colors could help. But I'd also support an icon rollback and rework.
(No, I don't need a pony, but the restoration of the Quafe/Pleasure Station would be nice... or a pony icon!) |
TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 05:25:59 -
[1342] - Quote
The icons are so bad, can you make a buyyon where i can choose the old ifons , please! |
13kr1d1
Hedion University Amarr Empire
157
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 05:28:24 -
[1343] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:I'm actually heading to sleep as Iceland gets ready for their working day, but two thoughts if the icons -have- to stay because the heads of the corporation said so: Thicken the borders so they aren't so eye-straining. Differentiate more by color. Is that a player or an NPC? Colors could help. But I'd also support an icon rollback and rework.
(No, I don't need a pony, but the restoration of the Quafe/Pleasure Station would be nice... or a pony icon!)
I guess you weren't here for monocle-gate. The "heads" have to do what's best for the customer base they've tailored the game to.
If a bunch of people stop subbing over finally getting fed up with changes, they have to change their changes or accept the loss of customers.
Nothing wrong with a sizable group of people unhappy with content letting their sub lapse for a week to demonstrate this. I think it is in everyone's interest to send a message, rather than let enough straws build up to break the camel for good.
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Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 05:45:41 -
[1344] - Quote
After using the new icons for the last couple of days, I'd like to reiterate that they are absolutely terrible; indistinct, samey and counter-intuitive.
The only new icons I actually like are the corpse and acceleration gate icons. |
Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 06:28:19 -
[1345] - Quote
Just lost a Hookbill because new Destroyer icon looks identical to old acceleration gate icon.
Yay. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
286
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 08:08:37 -
[1346] - Quote
Rats inside ghost sites are still red crosses.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
16
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Posted - 2015.06.08 08:45:16 -
[1347] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: [...] scaling and concepting stuff, not enough room to quote everything [...]
1) So by doing what you suggest, squishing them vertically, your icon design choice becomes more limited, and you have to come up with clearly distinguishable new shapes. You might manage that, and I'm sure I'm sure they will work in 100% scaling, but we need to deliver 90% properly. Else your Freighters and Rorquals will close their brackets on the side. And then youGÇÖll still have the same problem of making those icons separate enough from OTHER types of icons.
2) Not only do you make a contradicting statement, but it is also just your opinion and playstyle. You're letting this influence your design choices, so your experience with the game matters little in this case. It will bias the issues you want to see fixed, while ignoring others. See, you NEED to distinguish combat ships from non-combat ships and those have to be distinguishable from everything else too. You want to know what you DON'T need to shoot, and you want to see non-combat ships properly if you are aiming for them specifically. Overview filters don't matter in this case. There are many people doing pvp who have all ship types on their overview, because why let a non-combat ship get away, right? c: So you NEED the distinction to be clear.
3) That is not true. The smaller your space becomes, the less choices for shapes and variations you have and the harder people with smaller screens or less than ideal eyesight or both will be negatively affected. In fact, most of the time it is the relative amount of UNUSED space which makes the grade or not. Because this unused space allows for better visibility of what the rest of the icon is, and the unused space also allows for more spacing from one icon to the next.
of corse i can't scale them exactly like the ui render engine does because i don't know the algorythm. and even if i would know it, i expect myself to be too lazy to look for a tool wich uses this algorythm. or even write one myself. in general it doesn't matter what we will use as icon. in eve it will look ****** when scaled. but scaling the old icon worked relatively well (as you said yourself in the post that i was first answereing). so we know that the shapes i used will work more or less well even scaled. but, as i already said, i'm not doing CCP's work here, neither am i in an appreticeship for UI desingers here. all i am doing is saying that i don't like the new icons, explaining why and also visually providing something that i personally would like. this is the best way feedback works in my opinion. and therefore of corse i let my personal experience and playstyle influence my design choices. what else should i base them on if i am giving feedback and not doing CCP's work?
the part of the game where the icons make the most sense and are most important is in pvp, when you have to know what is there. so, as i already said, i don't feel like the other icons had to be changed in general. in my personal opinion they were fine before carnyx.
for the other points: i didn't say that we don't need any icons for industrial ships or something. but we don't need that many. in my opinion, 3 are enough. one for haulers, one for frighters and one for mining ships in general. i don't need different icons for a venture or a hulk. icons are for realizing whats there and making decisions within a split second. for industrials in general thats not as important as for pvp ships. within that split second you see that this is a mining ship. to see what it is exactly, you have the type column in the overview and enough time to read it. and scaling the old industrial icons wasn't a problem either.
i also personally don't think that the color tag is disturbing the readability of the icons i did. it didn't with the old ones and, again, thatswhy i am trying to simply improve the old ones instead of creating completely new and different confusion. the old ones worked well in any way for me and were only lacking the difference between some ship types wich i tried to improve. maybe the lack of an icon for biomass was a problem too.
and by the way. i don't think that you understood what i was saying about scaled UI and more viewable things. i was just explaining why i personally play with a scaled UI. this had nothing todo with the icon discussion. if the scrolling part of my overview is 1000 pixels in height and each entry needs 20 pixels of room, i can have 50 entries in my overview. if the needed size for each entry shrinks by scaling hte UI, i can see more entries at the same time. this is just an example, don't tell me how many pixels each entry needs on wich scale for real.
and again to make this clear: please don't tell me how to be a UI designer. i'm a programmer and in this particular case, i'm a gamer who gives valid feedback about a feature he doesn't like... nothing more, nothing less. use the time and energy to tell CCP how to be a UI designer or whatever...
also: i don't care for typos... \o/ |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 08:55:05 -
[1348] - Quote
So CCP Surge and CCP Claymore,
Your silence is more then 3 days
We think that you have enough feedbacks (68 pages) Pls reply when you will get the old icons back |
Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1513
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 10:10:03 -
[1349] - Quote
I have just noticed the Blood Raider skin for the Paladin in the NES (at least the preview of it). Are you kidding me? The skin is just mirrored from one side to the other instead of a proper skin with a unique pattern spread over the ship. You see, this cheap implementation is exactly why I refuse to throw more money at CCP.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
96
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 11:10:54 -
[1350] - Quote
13kr1d1 wrote:They don't look caldari. You have all the old models of caldari design to work with, and you make the ships look like a Transformers movie. Its got no style, no distinction, from the mass of stuff that's already out there. I have to agree with you, in all sadness :c I mean, I liked when CCP started to change Caldari designs to be less lopsided. I remember the Ferox being lopsided before Trinity arrived... or was it Quantum Rise... I don't know, long ago :D I appreciated the first changes they did. Scorpion change was wonderful, and when they touched the Moa, it definitely got more appeal as well. People could debate about the Condor, and I'm still not sure why they removed the aft bridge of the Cormorant. But when they redesigned the Blackbird, it was the first time when I said "no, this is going too far." The blackbird went from an ugly blocky asymmetrical duckling to an ugly fragile symmetrical duckling.
I don't understand why they're trying to push an entirely different design philosophy onto Caldari. Why are we getting more and more fragile designs for a faction that was known to have rough, blocky cuts? I'm also not sold on all the stupid moving parts while in warp. Who cares, really? I admit the Caracal looks better in the game than on the concept, and I appreciate the lines looking more menacing, but it just looks too fragile in general. But the Jackdaw? What a disappointment. Why even give it the name of a bird, when it looks like a broken electric toothbrush? Or a separate radio antenna? Really...
darkchild's corpse wrote:but, as i already said, i'm not doing CCP's work here, neither am i in an appreticeship for UI desingers here. all i am doing is saying that i don't like the new icons, explaining why and also visually providing something that i personally would like. To me, you were giving the impression of "My icons will work better, so we should be using them" and that is why I picked this up in order to explain not only to you, but to everyone else reading why things are not as easy as people believe it to be. It is easy to throw in an idea or two that is just a small slice of the whole, which is totally fine, but again... you gave me the impression you expect this to be accepted and to work in all scenarios. And that is simply not true c:
darkchild's corpse wrote:and by the way. i don't think that you understood what i was saying about scaled UI and more viewable things. i was just explaining why i personally play with a scaled UI. this had nothing todo with the icon discussion. if the scrolling part of my overview is 1000 pixels in height and each entry needs 20 pixels of room, i can have 50 entries in my overview. I did understand it well, and I'm seeing that you're not getting the bigger picture. First, only because you cramp in 50 entries does not mean you can distinguish all these entries easily. A great example is simply changing the row spacing in any document. There is a reason why many people can read better when the individual lines have more spacing between each other, and why 1.5 linespace is pretty much standard in most media.
Icon legibility does not rely on using all the space available either. We can see this with current celestial icons. Planets, Stargates and stations are all bigger than before. This makes them less easy to distinguish from one another... the overview became less practical to use because it started to feel crowded. The relative space lost between the icons made it harder for the eye to latch on to individual differences. The stargate looking more like a square with round edges instead of a circle, and the triangle on the side not standing out as much any more is not helping either.
I further read the dismissive nature of you post, and will accept that you don't care any more, so I won't continue to bother either. Thank you for providing a good example of why things aren't that easy c:
Panterata wrote:So CCP Surge and CCP Claymore, Your silence is more then 3 days It was in the morning hours when you wrote your posts, and I saw most devposts rolling in during the afternoon, and we just had a weekend between that. Give them a chance, really. |
|
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 11:36:52 -
[1351] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:24h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait. 46h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, hmm maybe do a big cleaning of my appartment while i wait. 70h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its friday so time to drown my sorrow and fall asleep crying while watching old eve movies and remembering the good old days when i could play eve. 94h since last login... hey look no patch today, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its National Day here today so i guess i celebrate it
165h since last login... hey look no patch today, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back later this week, starting to not care anymore
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
darkchild's corpse
Rens Nursing Home
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 11:37:28 -
[1352] - Quote
sorry if i was a bit rough and sorry for giving the wrong impression... but you were giving me the impression that you either expect me to come up with a perfect solution for everyone or just want to proof that you have more clue about all the designing stuff than me.
and yes, i did enough web development to know that padding is very important for readability. but it makes a difference if i'm able to see the whole enemy fleet or just a part of it. specially if i'm FC or target caller. for me personally it is the most important thing to have a quick overview over the whole situation without scrolling. thatswhy my overview and local chat also goes over the complete hight of my screen in addition to the scaling ;) |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
377
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 12:09:44 -
[1353] - Quote
Indeed, CSM, where are you ? Funny, each time there is a true crisis between the players and CCP, the CSM disappears Won't you help us have the option to choose between the old and the new icons, just like the map ? Is it too much asking ?
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Ponder Yonder
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 12:16:59 -
[1354] - Quote
Dear CCP,
I followed your suggestion of 'getting used to it'. Except that I'm not used to it at all.
I work with thousands of icons from dozens of applications every day. Your new set is by far the most difficult to use: - Counter intuitive - Attempting to convey redundant information - Attempting to convey fine nuances with single pixels - Indistinct / Undifferentiated - Not suitable to instant threat assessment
Others in this thread has made much better cases and given very detailed, constructive feedback.
I sincerely hope you act on it, because this change is NOT a quality of life improvement. Quite the opposite. Eve is now less enjoyable.
BTW, the 'New Map' is on the same slippery slope, where you have not taken all use cases into account and have now announced that something is 'Out of Beta' when it is in fact completely useless to anyone ever attempting to use scan probes.
- Ponder |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1797
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 13:08:22 -
[1355] - Quote
I would like to suggest swapping the "Agent in Space" icon and the "Beacon" icon.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 14:14:38 -
[1356] - Quote
as u can see ccp on my login behaviour im playin less n less n it will eventually fade out to not play at all nomore the only thing that keeps me around is my friends, not these silly updates n changes every friggin 2 months or so these icons suck n make playin smoothly a thing from the passt u guys could have easely implemented an option for us users and subscribers to use the classic icons but even after all the feed back on sisi and on tranquility nothing changes and for god sakes why even change somthing that was working perfectly fine???????????????? is it bcos u guys gotta stay busy then go mow the lawn or take the trash out or go do som dishes or som or actually fix what is broken like the pos menus for example its been a couple of days now n my feelings about this r just the same the icons suck n giving tthem another color will still make em suck
what will u change next month? why dont u just make the game f2p might help in keepin bigger player base jus sayin with all the changes might aswell change to f2p |
Don Pera Saissore
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 14:52:27 -
[1357] - Quote
The old icons are still in the game, i just saw a Guristas shuttle and it still uses the old icon. Reverting is easy, let us have the old icons while you work on fixing the new ones. |
TuCZnak
My Private Tax Shelter
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:03:55 -
[1358] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:The old icons are still in the game, i just saw a Guristas shuttle and it still uses the old icon. Reverting is easy, let us have the old icons while you work on fixing the new ones.
Of course reverting is easy, even if they weren't in the game anymore. But swallowing your pride and admitting that you dun goof'd is much harder. |
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
744
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:04:01 -
[1359] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Rats inside ghost sites are still red crosses.
Lol?? At least we have SOME red crosses left. legacy for the win!
CCP, give us option to turn new icons OFF! |
Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:18:15 -
[1360] - Quote
Just logged in - no patch - same worthless, pathetic "new and improved" icons - same disdain and callous disregard from CCP for the players. Logged back out in frustration. Time to start paring down the alt accounts. That seems to be the only thing this bunch will take notice of. Very sad - I don't think even Blizzard is this bad.... |
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
144
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:31:00 -
[1361] - Quote
Lantyss wrote:Just logged in - no patch - same worthless, pathetic "new and improved" icons - same disdain and callous disregard from CCP for the players. Logged back out in frustration. Time to start paring down the alt accounts. That seems to be the only thing this bunch will take notice of. Very sad - I don't think even Blizzard is this bad....
Lantyss wrote: Very sad - I don't think even Blizzard is this bad....
Unfortunately, they're worse. But coming back to EVE/CCP, it's only been a Monday. There does need to be a meeting on removing or reworking this change. But they should have enough of a response by now to determine the playerbase feeling on it. Just because we eventually stop complaining after such a strong response doesn't mean we've accepted it. It likely means that we're giving up on working with CCP and moving away from EVE.
One reasonably only bangs their head against a non-responsive door for so long.
|
Scott Bacon
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:48:41 -
[1362] - Quote
Why not just make the overview icons a set stored on the client that can be swapped out by users? Then CCP could provide a legacy set, a new updated set, and 3rd parties could create their own custom sets.
All of Eve would be happy and much love would be showered on CCP. Players would be hold hands and dance down the streets singing songs of joy, before returning to their computers to sub new accounts to see more icons.
Doesn't that sound like an update worth working on? Don't just change the icons. Add some real functionality for them! |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 15:55:59 -
[1363] - Quote
Dear CCP,
We know it is only monday afternoon in Iceland, and that things are probably still underway on how to deal with this scenario. I hope we're going to get at least a message that you're still debating what the best course of action is. That would be at least better than nothing.
We know you left some old icons in the client, it has been mentioned and spotted often enough since launch. But that's not so bad, you know? There are probably a lot of database entries that need be changed and overwritten with the new icons. That's okay, nobody is perfect, mistakes can happen. Though I'm not sure if this is an indicator that all old icons are still in the game. My educated guess is; no, it was just an oversight and those icons should have been overwritten by different ones.
I sincerely hope you are working on a quick solution to make the icons optional, and notify us that the "new icons" are now a beta feature to opt in, so that more people can give you feedback based upon them. This will give you more time to gather feedback while not disgruntling your players or rendering them impossible to play your game. Also, please let us know that you are working on it if you do, and don't let us keep starving for information. If you are unable to deliver such a change in a reasonable timeframe, then it would be in your best of interest to either rollback the icons, or start a very large survey. The forum is not enough. Based on this feedback, you hopefully will make an informed decision of how to deal with this situation next.
Your reasons why you wanted to change the icons are known and I'm sure a large portion of people will at least understand where you are coming from. But the direction you took is less than ideal. And even IF you made astoundingly perfect icons, and even IF there would be no issue with the scaling, it STILL would have been better to be on the safe side and implement them as beta feature first.
There are a lot of people who don't like the icons and still play the game because of the social bonds they did there and because of the activity to be in eve online itself is still enough to keep them there. But this connection is wearing thinner with each huge change you're bringing that is that is to a players dislike. But there are also people who like the icons. Now it is important to find common denominators of why people like them and why people dislike them. It will not only depend on their physical ability to see things or their mental ability to change, but it will also play a large part in what the are doing in the game. There are many people who only care about ship icons.
In turn, I have never seen anyone explicitly saying the new player structure icons are bad. Does that mean there is nobody disliking them? No, it does not.
I urge you to implement an ingame feedback tool very, very soon. You have a very good ticket system. You should use a similar system for feedback. This will allow you to reach a lot more players than those who go to the forums, or elsewhere.
You know pushing the starmap as live default was a mistake, but at least you kept the old one in there. You know making opportunities a default despite the negative feedback, and deleting all Aura tutorials (even the one previously accessible through F12) was a mistake. Both are undeniable facts, and any attempt to turn them around, will be squashed and countered by a lot more solid evidence in return.
I don't need to be a rocket scientist to look at the annual player counter history to see where you did something wrong, and indicators are huge that you're on a very declining trend currently.
That dip at mid 2011 to 2012 was Incarna for a good amount, by the way. You learned something from that. Please, learn something else from this situation here too. We don't want our Eve to be wrecked by bad marketing decisions :c The fast paced update schedule was already a risky idea to begin with. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 17:20:20 -
[1364] - Quote
I've tried to get used to the new icons, played on sisi before they come to TQ hoping that one day they would start to work for me, but so far they are more of a PITA than anything, I do like the corps icon though but the rest can go to hell..
Remember the bad icon changes for modules a few years ago.? Can you please do the same with these new icons, or at least have them as an option so I can start playing Eve again.
In short.. New icons bad, old (nothing wrong with them) icons good.. Please revert or have the ability to switch them off so we can use the older ones, K thanks. |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
386
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 18:35:20 -
[1365] - Quote
Here's a little visualisation that perfectly sums up how I see CCPs latest work, especially with regard to overview icons, ingame map and UI icons:
CCP at work
J'Poll:
EVE doesn't hand out cookies to you.
EVE kicks you down, steals your cookie and then laughs at you for bringing a cookie in the first place.
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
329
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 18:40:33 -
[1366] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:Indeed, CSM, where are you ? Funny, each time there is a true crisis between the players and CCP, the CSM disappears Won't you help us have the option to choose between the old and the new icons, just like the map ? Is it too much asking ?
Some of the CSM don't even log in and play the same game as you or I do on a daily or weekly basis. Some of the CSM don't bother with that whole undocking and seeing ships interact on grid thing. Elect a stronger CSM that actually cares about the things you do, that actually plays the game like you do next time.
CSM may actually listen to 60+ pages of feedback though, and may have actually taken the overwhelming amount of bad feedback on the test forums to mean something.
I really do not get why you even have a test server and a feedback forum if you are going to ignore it entirely. Bad show. On the other hand, whomever is in charge of the new map is exceptionally foresighted and at least no so arrogant as to shove un-wanted change down the throats of players.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 20:23:47 -
[1367] - Quote
I would like to add the only thing i dislike is the visual change of the rocks/asteroids. They look from WoW or warhammer and dont fit into this imo. at least more variations of texture and shapes, the old ones were kinda special, "spaced out", some shiny metals in the cracks, cratered surfaces and so on. Thise new ones are just ugly, boring and depressing (thank god im not a miner) |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
286
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 20:24:40 -
[1368] - Quote
Altrue wrote:I would like to suggest swapping the "Agent in Space" icon and the "Beacon" icon. I suggest to remove 'beacon abomination icon" and make "agent is space icon" "sun" icon. Then restore gates and stations to previous icons. The icons we see the most are the worst in this whole mess.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
Staxu
Cyrk stracencow
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 20:29:18 -
[1369] - Quote
Well hello.
I don't know is it only me, but in "old map" after switch from solar system to star map, control panel goes off, can not find it. so I'm no able to scan my wh. I would have to use new map which is good only as star map, as a solar system map is laggy and makes only problems.
Is there anyone with this same problem? I've sent petition on 4'th june and I'm still waiting. Even reset all settings didn't help.
Regards |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 20:55:08 -
[1370] - Quote
Let us do a lesson in Eve history c:
Turret icon history wrote:Incarna 1.0 ( 2011-06-21 ) : Turret icons now correctly represent the look of the turret.
* five months later... *
Crucible 1.0 ( 2011-11-29 ) : It was difficult to distinguish between fitted turrets on ships with the new turret icons. Until new icons have been made the old icons are being re-introduced into the user interface.
Forced Captain's Quarters history wrote:Incarna 1.0 ( 2011-06-21 ) : The station hangar has been replaced with Captain's Quarters. Capsuleers can now, for the first time, step out of their pod and stretch their legs in their personal quarters.
* four months later... *
Incarna 1.1.2 ( 2011-10-18 ) : The station hangar is returning with all of its previous functionality.
~ ~ ~ And of course, it took a few other sub-patches until everybody got a fix to keep memorizing client settings to STAY in hangar for everyone. Even then, it took until June 2012 for Inferno 1.1 to really appreciate Captain's quarters for those who wanted to try them out due to: The memory usage of the main screen in Captains Quarters has been improved.
Dear CCP,
how many months will it take this time until something will be done with the icons? Not to mention the opportunities. How long will it take to see a public statement and consequences again?
Statements like CCP Hellmar apologizing and the related effects brought Eve back on track for the most part. Sadly, the bottom of the devblog is not readable any more because website updates changed at some point how devblog links worked. That means the heavy words of "doing what we say and saying what we do" leads to nothing. Which is a shame, I'm sure everybody here would like to read that.
Now, who knows if the stepping down of CCP Zulu was part of these consequences? CCP Unifex stepped into these shoes of becoming Senior Producer. This was late December, 2011.
Somewhere around October 2012, CCP Ripley said she was now the new Senior Producer, which apparently made CCP Unifex Executive Producer. Shortly after, in January 2013, CCP Unifex told how he would split the Senior Producer role into two, keeping CCP Ripley and introducing CCP Seagull as second person on the job. CCP Seagull promptly wrote a very enthusiastic response which was a very good read. 3 months later, it was mentioned how a new Executive officer will be sought after inside the company, as CCP Unifex would step down to continue a different road inside the company.
CCP Seagull was involved in making probing a better thing and also announced the increased update schedule of Eve online that was apparently a decision of the entire board. Here I I got wary of how this is would be turning out. The idea to bring more fresh content faster is one thing, but pretty much everybody knows that quantity doesn't mean quality. More updates means more expectations from players. Faster work on content means less quality testing and less bugs being fixed. Other developers have displayed these issues in great failures. I was worried that CCP would make the same mistake.
But listening to CCP Seagull opening the Fanfest 2014 keynote really made me think we have a person that sits at the right place and will help steer Eve online to a better place.
I don't know who was executive producer between the time when it was announced where CCP Unifex would be stepping down in April 2013, and the official note of CCP Seagull being the new one in July 2014. While I have read conflicting information of things she said before and after, and that balance was wildly wiggling, I still remained hopeful for Eve's future and gave her the benefit of doubt.
Now, if you think I'm pointing fingers here, then you're wrong. I just want to ask... what happened? Where and how have all these decisions come together which started to make Eve a worse place than before, with half-hearted and unfinished development processes ? Who is responsible for this? Is it CCP Seagull's ambition that wears Eve online down, or is she one of those trying to save as much as possible? I don't look for a scapegoat. I search for answers. All I can do is following breadcrumbs of information.
We all know that something is going on. P... |
|
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
518
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 21:45:09 -
[1371] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Let us do a lesson in Eve history c:
But now... how much does the game and it's participants need to suffer before we face another apology of CCP Hellmar and the resulting consequences?
You know... I just want to play Eve but... it gets more and more difficult at heart ... :C
First line is the lesson - Beach Balls is my vision of Devs hard at work
Great history lesson. My question is - Why didn't CCP learn from past mistakes?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
182
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 23:21:22 -
[1372] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:Unfortunately, they're worse. But coming back to EVE/CCP, it's only been a Monday. There does need to be a meeting on removing or reworking this change. But they should have enough of a response by now to determine the playerbase feeling on it. They already had sufficient feedback before it hit TQ. The thing that gets at me is they already had all of this same feedback (also in less angry forms) from the sisi thread. I'm still lost as to why they just ignored it and decided to spawn a threadnaught about it. Every single one of us that poured our time into the sisi thread should be compensated for warning them while knowing full well there was a 99.99% chance we were being ignored anyways.
Joia Crenca wrote:Just because they eventually stop complaining after such a strong response doesn't automatically mean they've accepted it. It likely means that they're giving up on working with CCP and moving away from EVE.
One reasonably only bangs their head against a non-responsive door for so long. You must forget, this is CCP standard practice for gauging the acceptance or player agreement with change. People just stop caring, the issue is still there, and still sucks, but CCP usually wins in the end by sheer willpower of not listening anymore.
Vic Jefferson wrote:I really do not get why you even have a test server and a feedback forum if you are going to ignore it entirely. Bad show. On the other hand, whomever is in charge of the new map is exceptionally foresighted and at least no so arrogant as to shove un-wanted change down the throats of players. Well, they have actually stopped responding to a lot of the still incredibly valid concerns about the new map, so my money says they will nuke the old one here soon. And then tell us to give it a few days to get ourselves used to the change.
Natya Mebelle wrote:CCP Seagull was involved in making probing a better thing and also announced the increased update schedule of Eve online that was apparently a decision of the entire board. Here I I got wary of how this is would be turning out. The idea to bring more fresh content faster is one thing, but pretty much everybody knows that quantity doesn't mean quality. More updates means more expectations from players. Faster work on content means less quality testing and less bugs being fixed. Other developers have displayed these issues in great failures. I was worried that CCP would make the same mistake. Part of the core problem is instead of utilizing these spread out release cycles to allow many different teams to spend a year developing something to be included in one of these 10 releases, they are trying to force the urgent/quick development of rushed features for the next upcoming release. They need to almost take a pause in their schedule and focus on quality, maybe even putting back the release for all currently developing features by a few releases to allow them more time for proper design and testing and feedback. When they push out these new features so quickly there is usually very little time for feedback, and by the time it even hits sisi (frequently less than a week from TQ) its too late to make required changes so it goes live broken anyways.
I have seen a pattern in my own playstyle lately, becoming much less concerned and logging in much less often, if only for some social interactions, but much less often for actually playing the game than I used to. |
DaReaper
Net 7
2166
|
Posted - 2015.06.08 23:22:01 -
[1373] - Quote
Still don;t get the issue with the new icons, i ran a sleeper site last night had had no issues figuring out what was what. But i guess change scares people. meh
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
330
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 00:15:54 -
[1374] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Still don;t get the issue with the new icons, i ran a sleeper site last night had had no issues figuring out what was what. But i guess change scares people. meh
They are perfectly fine when there are a limited number of types on one overview tab. Try them in other circumstances then let me know how you feel.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Tesseya
VooDoo Warriors Legion of xXDEATHXx
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 00:17:55 -
[1375] - Quote
Black&white neocom incons, so pain my eyes, im again miss neocom button. And now new piece a **** - new overview. "thanks" CCP designers! maybe you dissmiss? |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 00:49:56 -
[1376] - Quote
Logged in, no patch....
No patch.
When will you give us the option to turn off these icons?
I'm playing less and less. |
Pejlona Parek
Lone Star Warriors Yulai Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 01:05:59 -
[1377] - Quote
As this is feedback section I'll be as constructive as I can.
ICONS + Very happy with the new icons. I disagree that the old ones worked better.. before you couldn't tell the difference between frigate/destroyer, cruiser/battlecruiser etc.. now you can = imho improvement. As with every change, takes a while to get used to. After few days I had no problem reading them, even in fleet battles.
- Imo they don't rly fit the modernized UI design, but there is only so much CCP can do with the limited resolution available for the icons.. for example there's no way the icons can look like this ingame, there's just not enough pixels to draw them. One thing I don't understand is what was the reason for the icons to be hollow.. this is probably what the older players are complaining about when addressing "readability in combat".. before BIG cross (mass of colored pixels) meant BIG rat.. now this "corner of the eye" distinguishability is lost and you have to focus on them a lot more.
SHIP VISUALS + Ships look very good now. + Caracal looks sick, liking the lamborhini-ish caldari designs - Also noticed a change in the "hangar" icons. Overall ship brightness on these icons increased a lot and minmatars look pink as a side effect.
CLIENT ISSUES + Never had any. Even the Play button in the launcher graying out got fixed.
SOV CHANGES = Too early to judge those, but I kinda like the direction where this is going.
I know this is an older one, but BETA MAP + much better looking + smooth transition between star and solar system maps + allows probing/exploration + visualizes autopilot path when you click on a system + doubleclick to center on item, intuitive - does not highlight region name when you click on a system - no search function yet - wormholes open an extra window inside the map, if map is set to fullscreen the close button for the wormhole system map is located where most players have overview - the map doesn't follow the player, when you jump to another system you have to press "focus current location" to update (to continue scanning for example, gets annoying)
Hope this helps :) |
Aijle Mijleroff
Infernal Laboratory Infernal Octopus
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 01:10:03 -
[1378] - Quote
Original forum post
This post will contain the results of an after-patch poll about new icons usability as well as feedback and opinions gathered throughout the topic.
Tl;dr: More than 540 people voted and more than 65% of players found themselves uncomfortable with the new icons. Be it solo, small-gang or crowd activities, both pvp or pve.
|| Link To Russian Poll Thread ||
Describe your impressions and experience using the overview with the new icon system:
1. Liked new icons a lot. The overviewGÇÖs now more informative. GÇô 37 votes, [6,16 %] 2. Nicely done. Though need time to get used to. GÇô 110 votes [18,30 %] 3. No difference for me. GÇô 54 votes [8,99 %] 4. DidnGÇÖt like new icons. GÇ£Bring back familiar red crosses!GÇ¥ GÇô 121 votes [20,13 %] 5. Strongly disliked. GÇ£Give us an option to switch for old iconsGÇ¥ GÇô 279 votes [46,42 %]
The answers for 1 and 2 are counted as positive, 3 is neutral while 4 and 5 are considered negative game experience with new icons.
Generalized opinions and feedback.
Feel free to skip this section if you read and posted in Icons and General Carnyx Feedback threads.
Pros.
GÇô Gate guns and station sentry icons are nice. GÇô Sun is cute. GÇô New ship icons are fine. GÇô Frigate are now considered wrecks. Good, good. GÇô Frozen corpse icon is definitely a win. GÇô PvE feels okish.
Neutral.
GÇô Most of problems would be gone if there is an ability to switch overview for familiar icon set. GÇô Why donGÇÖt you use ISIS icon set for ships? A lot of new bros are using ISIS and feel familiar with it. GÇô New icons are mostly fine. Though become unreadable when the whole overview is targeting (locking) your ship. You might think of new target lock bracket.
Cons.
GÇô Strong dislike of new drone icons, they look clumsy in both overview and space. Familiar diagonal cross icon was simple and nice. GÇô New icon set looks over detailed and complicated for people with eye problems. Smaller iconsGÇÖ elements seems just unreadable for these people. GÇô Icons are hardly recognizable with GUI scaling other that 100% and user monitors other than Full HD high resolution. GÇô Capsuleers have to carefully read and search overview within GÇ£typeGÇ¥ and GÇ£nameGÇ¥ columns instead of quick icon eye contact. That cost them seconds which is critical in pvp engagements. GÇô Many players faced problems finding desired objects in space. The old eye algorithm was GÇ£Distance - Icon (type) - Desired target is somewhere there GÇô Check nameGÇ¥. Unique and rare overview objects were easily eye-catched and now they are not. This goes especially for sun, mobile warp disruptors, cans, wrecks and beacons. GÇô Being tackled by wreck is confusing. As well as being targeted by SBU. GÇô A lot of struggle with new wreck icons (unreadable, unrecognizable if empty or not). GÇô Hard to quickly tell whoGÇÖs a live capsuleer and whoGÇÖs the NPC or a jetcan. The familiar GÇ£square vs crossGÇ¥ bracket difference should not be touched. GÇô PvP pilots now spend drastically more time trying to recognize the situation. They have to stare at overview for mere seconds to link visual information with overview data. GÇô Several pilots are afraid to undock. GÇô Familiar GÇ£squareGÇ¥ icons defined 4 principal ship size groups which completely differ from each others (in terms of functions and size). Current icon system is not providing such fast differentiation. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1185
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 02:23:14 -
[1379] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I'm also curious to hear more from, and maybe wasn't aware of how many users played with a 90% downscaled UI (as opposed to scaling up for accessibility reasons.) What are your reasons for doing so?
I played on my surface pro only for a few months and had the UI scaling to 125%. When I got home and switched back to my usual setup (dual 23" monitors) they seemed giant and everything on my UI just looked too big, so I swapped to 90% UI scaling and I think everything looks really nice that way. I tried going back to 100% to check out the new icons and only lasted a few minutes. Windows are just too big, and screen space feels completely wasted. and the module icons start to look fuzzy at 100%. With a higher res monitor I imagine things would look good at 100%.
When I am in space and have a local, other chats, D-scan, overview, cargo, drones, and overview on my screen I can't see space at 100%, or my windows get resized to be too small to see what I want to see, at 90% I feel like I have a cluttered but mostly alright view
90%: http://i.imgur.com/WYeAaWi.jpg 100%: http://i.imgur.com/4uzetyb.jpg
I didn't completely finish lining up everything on the 100% example. the cargo overlaps the 8th turret slot, and the local chat box is covered. I also forogt the d-scan window, but at 90% it kinda fits in with the chat boxes, at 100% it just blocks the view. I could also see putting it above the targeted items next to the overview, but then that might limit ability to drag targets to different rows.
pretty much every other MMO lets you move and/or resize UI elements. Eve has gotten better with it in the last few years, but is still frustrating in some aspects.
at 90% everything fits nicely, and everything is very readable, except the new icons
I have no idea how I used to play eve on a tiny CRT monitor
@ChainsawPlankto
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
182
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 02:45:41 -
[1380] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:When I am in space and have a local, other chats, D-scan, overview, cargo, drones, and overview on my screen I can't see space at 100%, or my windows get resized to be too small to see what I want to see, at 90% I feel like I have a cluttered but mostly alright view 90%: http://i.imgur.com/WYeAaWi.jpg 100%: http://i.imgur.com/4uzetyb.jpg I didn't completely finish lining up everything on the 100% example. the cargo overlaps the 8th turret slot, and the local chat box is covered. I also forogt the d-scan window, but at 90% it kinda fits in with the chat boxes, at 100% it just blocks the view. I could also see putting it above the targeted items next to the overview, but then that might limit ability to drag targets to different rows. I've noticed a trend over the recent years of CCP working to remove as much utility space from our screens as possible. Making the minimum size of windows larger, text larger, etc. This ends up in situations where people have increasingly less "space scene" on their display, and more "internet spreadsheets".
If they want to break away from that stereotype they need to upgrade the UI, and not by making things bigger. There was a nice pic shown at 2014 fanfest that showed a modern/futuristic UI that didn't look like spreadsheets in space, but we haven't heard a peep about it since.
Aijle Mijleroff wrote:GÇô Why donGÇÖt you use ISIS icon set for ships? A lot of new bros are using ISIS and feel familiar with it. GÇô New icons are mostly fine. Though become unreadable when the whole overview is targeting (locking) your ship. You might think of new target lock bracket. First off let me address why they canned the ISIS icons in the overview... they HAD to be compared to the other icons to know what was what. The differences between ship classes were way too subtle.
Second, the new icons are not mostly fine. Perhaps sections of icons are fine'ish if held up completely isolated, but they are rarely in such conditions. The issue is that in a vast number of common situations you can have very similar looking icons for a handful of completely different types of icons (celestials, structures, ships, wrecks etc) that are difficult to discern unless you have committed all 300 (or more, i don't know, its a crapload for sure) some odd individual icons to memory. And there are plenty of specific instances within each class that are terribad... cruisers are nearly identical to dreads, 5 different frigate class icons, 12 different container icons... and dozens of icon swaps between completely unrelated items between the old and the new.
|
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Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 03:03:04 -
[1381] - Quote
You know .... while I may not have the experience, skill, or standing of some of you who have posted here, I can surely detect when something smells to the heights! In my humble opinion, it is unacceptable and (very possibly) cowardly for CCP not to come here and make SOME kind of comment. That kind of disdain and disregard for us players just adds fuel to the fire and worsens the relationship between CCP and us. Very unprofessional... |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 03:46:16 -
[1382] - Quote
Just canceled 3 accounts, once my remaining time is up I may not resub if or when the icons are fixed, it depends on how I feel long term about how Eve is being handled now-a-days, I'm an older guy with not so good eyesight so I'm not going to pay money to play a game that is now unplayable for me. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 04:28:34 -
[1383] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:When I am in space and have a local, other chats, D-scan, overview, cargo, drones, and overview on my screen I can't see space at 100%, or my windows get resized to be too small to see what I want to see, at 90% I feel like I have a cluttered but mostly alright view 90%: http://i.imgur.com/WYeAaWi.jpg 100%: http://i.imgur.com/4uzetyb.jpg I didn't completely finish lining up everything on the 100% example. the cargo overlaps the 8th turret slot, and the local chat box is covered. I also forogt the d-scan window, but at 90% it kinda fits in with the chat boxes, at 100% it just blocks the view. I could also see putting it above the targeted items next to the overview, but then that might limit ability to drag targets to different rows. I've noticed a trend over the recent years of CCP working to remove as much utility space from our screens as possible. Making the minimum size of windows larger, text larger, etc. This ends up in situations where people have increasingly less "space scene" on their display, and more "internet spreadsheets". If they want to break away from that stereotype they need to upgrade the UI, and not by making things bigger. There was a nice pic shown at 2014 fanfest that showed a modern/futuristic UI that didn't look like spreadsheets in space, but we haven't heard a peep about it since.
On the UI updates that have rolled out since I started (ignoring the icons bad! threadnaught) I'm set at 90% resolution for more screen space to work with due to windows expanding on me. Though I like the cleanup/streamlining to Industry that was once a confusing mess, that window EATS screen space hardcore. In scaling open windows so I can at least pretend to see what's going on, it's the tradeoff of being able to actually use the info in those open windows when I scale them and still leave viewing space for paranoia checks around my ships. At 100% scale, it simply can't happen. It is not from lack of inches on the monitor, it's a 32 inch screen area. Windows, open tabs, etc, are just getting bigger and bulkier, not a good thing for me when I have stuff open so I can prep for incoming troubles.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
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Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 04:33:44 -
[1384] - Quote
Monday nite local time. Zero response from a CCP personage since the 'get used to them' memo days before.
Are you serious? 'Cuz I am, and many others in this threadnaught are as well.
'Classic Icon' option, or just roll this mess back for a better Test Feedback Thread sniff check (that won't be outright ignored as the last one was!), this stinks.
>Jeven
Couple days into the thread-dec, W3D0 vs. CCP, they're still not undocking.
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
286
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 05:46:58 -
[1385] - Quote
Pejlona Parek wrote:BETA MAP + much better looking + smooth transition between star and solar system maps + allows probing/exploration + visualizes autopilot path when you click on a system + doubleclick to center on item, intuitive - does not highlight region name when you click on a system - no search function yet - wormholes open an extra window inside the map, if map is set to fullscreen the close button for the wormhole system map is located where most players have overview - the map doesn't follow the player, when you jump to another system you have to press "focus current location" to update (to continue scanning for example, gets annoying) There is search function. Top right corner, magniyfing glass.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
Circumstantial Evidence
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 06:44:55 -
[1386] - Quote
Aijle Mijleroff wrote:Original forum postThis post will contain the results of an after-patch poll about new icons usability as well as feedback and opinions gathered throughout the topic. Thanks for taking the time to cross-post & translate from eve-ru forum. I am not complaining and will get used to them, if CCP doesn't change the icons, but I see valuable feedback and ideas in this poll summary. Nice work!
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Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
381
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 07:06:37 -
[1387] - Quote
CCPs are showing exactly the same disdain for their customers than during the Incarna-gate. And i naively thought they had learned something... They are so proud and blind that they don't see the danger.
Not a word from CCP. Not a word from the CSM. Not a reason to trust them anymore.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
756
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 08:00:46 -
[1388] - Quote
I still keep giving these a go, the odd hour here and there. Still cant get used to them, and whats even more worrying for me, eye strain and slight headaches have appeared this past week.
At least Elite Dangerous is around to cure my space thirst. |
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
193
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 08:58:32 -
[1389] - Quote
1)Attack drones too big and similar the frigs. Old icon was better.
2)cruiser and BC similar to BS. Earlier in pve small,medium,large ships had have different sized icons. But now its have not big difference. I think it will be better if you will make BS and capital size icons bigger. I think it must bold icon with 2-3 pixels in line.
3)Small difference between frigs and destroyers, and between cruisers and BC. Lower dash too close to icon and merges with it. I think it will like better if move it down to 1-2 pixels.
4) 90% scaled UI. Looking awful
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Volery Makanen
Duck Hunters Flex Point
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 09:29:19 -
[1390] - Quote
I'm not going to pay for my subscription alt character. CCP Congratulations: designers reduce your money. real sweeeeeet money. return back to the old overview icons
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Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 09:33:41 -
[1391] - Quote
logged in undocked ....saw no change tought screw this docked logged out went and played somthing else |
Black Ambulance
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 10:19:28 -
[1392] - Quote
what probably CCP think about us :
We realize it may be an inconvenience to you and we hope you'll voice all your concerns to us because at CCP the customer is always our bit*h.
|
Cuchulin
DEFCON. The Initiative.
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 11:05:36 -
[1393] - Quote
Just wanted to chime in and say that I am not a big fan of the new icons. With the old icons it was possible to see immediately if another player is on the grid and in what size of ship he was flying in. Given the small size of the icons in general I think it was realy enough information to know that there is something frig/desti sized or cruiser/bc sized or larger on the field. Trying to press more information content into a few pixels has the opposite effect for me right now.
I would (like many others) prefer a roleback to the old icon set. However, since I think this is unlikely to happen, one major improvement would be if there was a very clear, not possible to miss, destinction added between player piloted ships on grid and everythign else. This could be a color code, e.g. all lines in the overview that contain player piloted ships are highlighted in a certain (preferably customizable) color. Then at least I know something is on the grid that is interesting to shoot or that might be dangerous and I can look at the shiptype to tell me which one of the two options it is ;)
In addition, it would be nice if someone has another look at the icons themselfes if they are here to stay.... As someone a few pages ago pointed out, the agent in space icon and the cyno icon (just to name one example) would be much more intuitive if they are switched. Also, given that EVE has a very large long term subscriber fanbase, it would be very nice if new ship icons would not look like old icons of deployable stuff in space. Its just not necessary to alianate loyale subscribers and have them tackled by what looks like a wreck :P
Finally speaking about wrecks..... Whoever had the idea with the little circle above the icon to indicate filled vs empty wrecks, as opposed to you know...a FILLED OR EMPTY icon.... should be slapped....repeatedly..... until he or she sees the error of his or her ways :P
Just my two cents... Cheers Cuchulin |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 11:13:46 -
[1394] - Quote
lol now u are just trolling us... http://i.imgur.com/qbiHBCd.png "so u cant see the icons, i show them"
what it say http://i.imgur.com/iSeY1ev.png
User Interface:
NPC Fighters should now have the proper overview bracket attached to them. Holding button for the "Look At" shortcut shows the correct icon on players ship. Goru's Shuttle, Guristas Shuttle and Rattlesnake Victory Edition brackets should now be properly updated. Noctis, Industrial Ships and the Orca should now have proper icons in the Interbus Ship Identification System (ISIS). Supercarrier bracket icons should now be properly displaying their respective ships. Industrial ship brackets have been fixed to properly match their own ship types instead of mining barges.
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
123
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 11:19:09 -
[1395] - Quote
Today's patch fixed inconsistencies within the new icons. That is fair, it means we now can judge the product addition for how it really was meant to be, right? *looks at the topic* Do you want another 70 pages of the same repetitions all over again?
Pejlona Parek wrote:+ Very happy with the new icons. I disagree that the old ones worked better.. What do you mostly do in eve and do you play with 100% scaling? How much have you relied on the "type" column before and what are your tagging options for player ships?
Dangeresque Too wrote:I've noticed a trend over the recent years of CCP working to remove as much utility space from our screens as possible. Making the minimum size of windows larger, text larger, etc. What makes this even more surreal is their notion that they want to give us more space to look at our ship. But wait, I mistook that. Their idea was to have more see-through for less legibility so that we can see more of the skybox and ship in blurred transparency... :c
I don't have a large screen. In fact, I have a very small screen. I still refuse to go down to 90% because the base font is an atrocity, has broken spacing, and whatnot. Trying to increase font size via the options is an exercise in futility. It just looks more broken in comparison to the rest of the UI.
Black Ambulance wrote:what probably CCP think about us : We realize it may be an inconvenience to you and we hope you'll voice all your concerns to us because at CCP the customer is always our bit*h. Well, as I mentioned before... it took them 4 to 5 months last time to fix something of this magnitude. If the new word is "faster" for updates, then maybe their reactions will be faster too... so maybe 2 months?
I also urge CCP to not misunderstand the "insignificant" drop in user statistics. There are still many of us who are in the game despite the struggle, because of various other reasons. But the more you're cutting at the game, the thinner this bond will become, until it eventually fades and people break away completely. And your playerbase IS declining, the online statistics don't lie and a more detailed picture from the start of 2014 paints this even clearer. I don't even want to go into the "how many players are actually playing the game" thing. There is a significant number of people who only log in to chat.
So in reality, if we had a way to see who is actually playing the game and not just sitting in station chatting, or having eve idle in the background... ... actually, I don't even want to know. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
121
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 11:25:02 -
[1396] - Quote
Did some one call them?
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/home
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Steijn
Quay Industries
760
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 12:10:42 -
[1397] - Quote
so a week of complaints and you are still forcing us to use this crap?
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Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 13:08:23 -
[1398] - Quote
fix this crap...... takes 20 min to maybe get thru launcher......have stopped real dollars for accts will die soon ... you really need to think about all you lose as you never get all back.. if 20 quit and then you fix 10 may come back |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
410
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 13:22:46 -
[1399] - Quote
"Redone Overview Icons: Brackets and overview indicators are more intuitive and uniform."
Funny stuff. They are neither uniform nor intuitive. Of course "clusterfu-k," probably wouldnt pass the censors.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 13:31:12 -
[1400] - Quote
not able to open launcher today have spent 30 minutes trying....your really not listening to your customers... |
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
121
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 13:41:31 -
[1401] - Quote
Ida Aurlien wrote:not able to open launcher today have spent 30 minutes trying....your really not listening to your customers...
Naah...it's not a big issue that you can't log. If you log you will see the same ugly icons so there is no point log.
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Midnight Hope
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
172
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 13:59:47 -
[1402] - Quote
Still not happy with the icons even after a few days.
- Drones: too many different icons. - I'm unable to tell what's an NPC and what a player ship, specially at a gate in low-high. NPC custom and police ships are waaay to similar to player ships. - Haulers/Industrials/Freigthers, etc. Too many icons for something that can not shoot back. Why do we need to tell them apart? One icon for them would be ok.
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TuCZnak
My Private Tax Shelter
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 14:25:36 -
[1403] - Quote
TIL that even if you explicitly cancel your sub, CCP still spams your mailbox with notifications that your accounts are about to expire. Can someone recommend replacement game? Because CCP seems to be keen on doing Incarna v2. Also, silently ignoring all feedback and then patching the remaining old icons is just adding insult to injury. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
122
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 14:29:22 -
[1404] - Quote
TuCZnak wrote:TIL that even if you explicitly cancel your sub, CCP still spams your mailbox with notifications that your accounts are about to expire. Can someone recommend replacement game? Because CCP seems to be keen on doing Incarna v2. Also, silently ignoring all feedback and then patching the remaining old icons is just adding insult to injury.
Star Citizen
I will try it |
AnSky
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 14:57:37 -
[1405] - Quote
patch is an insult
prolly you have a good fun making idiots out of us.. for our own money..
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Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 15:20:12 -
[1406] - Quote
Panterata wrote:TuCZnak wrote:TIL that even if you explicitly cancel your sub, CCP still spams your mailbox with notifications that your accounts are about to expire. Can someone recommend replacement game? Because CCP seems to be keen on doing Incarna v2. Also, silently ignoring all feedback and then patching the remaining old icons is just adding insult to injury. Star Citizen I will try it
elite dangerous: https://www.elitedangerous.com/ |
vil MbIIIIb
DoomGuards
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 15:23:10 -
[1407] - Quote
maybe you need it? new "0ld" icons alternative concept )) |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 15:41:18 -
[1408] - Quote
I see you picked up my notion to use raised brackets for interim sized ships, but didn't take other related feedback about this into account. I'm sorry to say, but those will not work either :c looking fine on separated concept at 100% , but will not make the grade in the ingame overview. |
vil MbIIIIb
DoomGuards
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 15:53:24 -
[1409] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I see you picked up my notion to use raised brackets for interim sized ships, but didn't take other related feedback about this into account. I'm sorry to say, but those will not work either :c looking fine on separated concept at 100% , but will not make the grade in the ingame overview. -£-¦-+-+ -ç-é-+ -+-+-+-Å-+ ))
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Judith Baker
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 15:59:44 -
[1410] - Quote
Where is the CSM? |
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Khoon Radja
Sarnami Raiders
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 16:00:02 -
[1411] - Quote
Fix this!! |
Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 16:09:48 -
[1412] - Quote
Where ARE the CSM and the CCP cognizant? What a combination of gutlessness and blatant disregard of player feedback! |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
155
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 16:12:26 -
[1413] - Quote
I agree here, 6 months with the new sidebar, guess what CCP, I STILL find them confusing. the thing is, they look ok, when they are at their full size(and waste screen real estate) When i shrink them down to get more screen real estate to use, they become very hard to tell apart. The old icons were MUCH better for this, because color variations are easy to tell apart no matter what size
On the new icons, I was originally all for the change, because for example, lets say I run into a group of ships, a mixture of T1 crusiers, T2 crusiers, and battlecrusiers, the old + icons made them all crusier icons, and I have to sort the names to tell them apart, for target priorities
So I liked the idea of making this simpler, and was happy with icon changes.. Then I used them for a few days.. And I have to say, no, this is not an improvement, this system is just flawed: It's too much about aesthetics, and too little about functionality.
I was hoping for something like: http://i.imgur.com/PZUJoXr.png http://i.imgur.com/xIpQUFU.png http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1505/NoUTVmZ3.png or perhaps this one: http://i.imgur.com/75xJGq1.png
The big difference between these and what you went with: Simple geometric shapes, are easy to tell apart at a glance Artistic depictions, are NOT Especially when they are made small(such as to get more screen real estate, or for people that don't have good eyesight), simple geometric shapes remain easy to tell apart. Artistic depictions, get WORSE.
I know CCP, that being told that your idea is just bad and people want it gone, is painful, but please, for the sake of making the game better, shelve your pride, and FIX THIS.
Last but not least, please switch to the old patch schedule, or at least add delays to this one. I for one, want new content when it's good and ready, not just as soon as possible.
Hoping someone there still cares, -Eraza |
Olleybear
Armed And Angry
215
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:02:40 -
[1414] - Quote
Hmm. Just had a thought. I'm wondering if the new icons were drawn on a larger monitor size than most of us play on. If this is true, this would begin to explain why on a smaller monitor the icons are hard to tell apart. Looking at youtube videos at CCP headquarters we can see large monitors everywhere. 12 minutes in on this video you can see the monitors I am talking about: Eve Online Show Unfortunately I am unable to see the size of the monitors but they do seem big to me.
Another thing that makes me wonder about monitor size at CCP headquarters is the chosen font size at ccpgames website here: CCP Games The font size is seriously tiny running both Firefox and Chrome. I'm not a web developer or anything, but I was able to find the size of the font used: font-size: 0.7em. When this font size is unchecked in Firefox's Tools/Webdelveoper/Toggle Tools, the font gets larger and is much easier to read on my monitors.
My home setup and how I play Eve: Run 2 monitors here with my main monitor 21" and my second monitor 19". Playing 2 accounts at once means I am running my main account in Fixed windowed mode and alt account in unfixed windowed mode, both of which are smaller than my screen size so I have access to icons on my desktop that help me in game, like excel, and have access to watch a movie while mining or waiting for a pvp target to come along. This cuts down even further on the display size of the client and of course the new icons.
Here is a question: Is a lot of the problems with the new icons we are having simply because our monitor sizes are smaller than at CCP headquarters and the people there only play in full screen mode, and as such CCP can easily tell the difference between the new icons? Perhaps developing the new icons on a 19" monitor would have been a good idea?
** Shrug **, just a thought before I've even had my first cup of coffee drank and breakfast eaten.
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
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Lahnius
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:21:23 -
[1415] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Hmm. Just had a thought. I'm wondering if the new icons were drawn on a larger monitor size than most of us play on. If this is true, this would begin to explain why on a smaller monitor the icons are hard to tell apart. Looking at youtube videos at CCP headquarters we can see large monitors everywhere. 12 minutes in on this video you can see the monitors I am talking about: Eve Online Show 12 minutes inUnfortunately I am unable to see the size of the monitors but they do seem big to me. Another thing that makes me wonder about monitor size at CCP headquarters is the chosen font size at ccpgames website here: CCP GamesThe font size is seriously tiny running both Firefox and Chrome. I'm not a web developer or anything, but I was able to find the size of the font used: font-size: 0.7em. When this font size is unchecked in Firefox's Tools/Webdelveoper/Toggle Tools, the font gets larger and is much easier to read on my monitors. My home setup and how I play Eve: Run 2 monitors here with my main monitor 21" and my second monitor 19". Playing 2 accounts at once means I am running my main account in Fixed windowed mode and alt account in unfixed windowed mode, both of which are smaller than my screen size so I have access to icons on my desktop that help me in game, like excel, and have access to watch a movie while mining or waiting for a pvp target to come along. This cuts down even further on the display size of the client and of course the new icons. Here is a question: Is a lot of the problems with the new icons we are having simply because our monitor sizes are smaller than at CCP headquarters and the people there only play in full screen mode, and as such CCP can easily tell the difference between the new icons? Perhaps developing the new icons on a 19" monitor would have been a good idea? ** Shrug **, just a thought before I've even had my first cup of coffee drank and breakfast eaten.
im running on 2x 36" Sceptre monitors and the icons STILL look bad ... after about 15 minutes of play, the icons all just kind of blend together ... its a mess and someone needs to clean it up ... i find myself now less and less interested in playing due to eyestrain and frustration ...
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
157
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:21:46 -
[1416] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Black Ambulance wrote:But , I think nothing going to change as the previous feedback thread regarding the new icons filled up with disappointed feedbacks too and CCP completely ignored it. A hypothetical day at the CCP office: UI Designer 1: So... they didn't like any of the icon sets we proposed. Manager: We can't spend much more time on that, we need a decision. UI Designer 1: Shouldn't we shelve it for later? Manager: We put it on schedule, so we will deliver it. We need your team free to work on other things. UI Designer 2: Honestly, the feedback we got was way too one-dimensional, I don't think they're seeing the bigger picture. If we take every change into consideration, then we have to spend more time getting the rest together which hasn't been touched. Manager: Both of you are not helping, even though what both of you say has merit. Still, they're not UI developers, and you are. I can draw pixels in paint too, that doesn't mean they work as intended. UI Designer 1: I disagree, our playerbase bring up a lot of valid points, and their feedback and mockups are on the right track too. UI Designer 2: That doesn't matter, even if we decide to go that route, we can't use those mockups. UI Designer 1: What? CCP Lawyer: We can't use player created mockups as part of our client for legal reasons. UI Designer 1: You've got to be kidding me... UI Designer 2: Tough luck. I guess we have to ship this. Too many mockups and ideas are around, this does not leave us with much space to find something else in between and we're running out of time anyway. Manager: Indeed, all very problematic. Well... let's just ship it, and take the flak, maybe we can work something out during this sh!tstorm. UI Designer 2: Sounds about right. UI Designer 1: I'm NOT agreeing with this... there has to be a better way and we can't let the next thing happen like that again! Manager: I'm sorry, that is not your call to make. You can't see in the future how it will work out, forum population is just a small part of the playerbase. We will ship it, and see what happens to player count and subscription changes. There is no point speculating. *... sometime in the future, a UI designer silently leaves the company.*
Sadly this sounds somewhat likely :(
This should not be hard to fix legally though. I'm quite sure many of the suggestions would love for their work to be used, and would happily sign over the legal rights to those icon mockups for just the honor of having their suggestion put into the actual game.
If this is the problem, then how about that CCP? you do some simple gesture to make all the lawyers happy, and the rest of us get to play with good icons.. :)
Or do I misunderstand the legal issues here? If I had made any of those suggestions then I would happily sign over the legal right to CCP for a limited ed ship skin or probably even just the honor of it. I'd love to be able to brag that a UI suggestion of mine got implemented into an actual game :P |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:25:33 -
[1417] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Hmm. Just had a thought. I'm wondering if the new icons were drawn on a larger monitor size than most of us play on. If this is true, this would begin to explain why on a smaller monitor the icons are hard to tell apart. Looking at youtube videos at CCP headquarters we can see large monitors everywhere. 12 minutes in on this video you can see the monitors I am talking about: Eve Online Show 12 minutes inUnfortunately I am unable to see the size of the monitors but they do seem big to me. Another thing that makes me wonder about monitor size at CCP headquarters is the chosen font size at ccpgames website here: CCP GamesThe font size is seriously tiny running both Firefox and Chrome. I'm not a web developer or anything, but I was able to find the size of the font used: font-size: 0.7em. When this font size is unchecked in Firefox's Tools/Webdelveoper/Toggle Tools, the font gets larger and is much easier to read on my monitors. My home setup and how I play Eve: Run 2 monitors here with my main monitor 21" and my second monitor 19". Playing 2 accounts at once means I am running my main account in Fixed windowed mode and alt account in unfixed windowed mode, both of which are smaller than my screen size so I have access to icons on my desktop that help me in game, like excel, and have access to watch a movie while mining or waiting for a pvp target to come along. This cuts down even further on the display size of the client and of course the new icons. Here is a question: Is a lot of the problems with the new icons we are having simply because our monitor sizes are smaller than at CCP headquarters and the people there only play in full screen mode, and as such CCP can easily tell the difference between the new icons? Perhaps developing the new icons on a 19" monitor would have been a good idea? ** Shrug **, just a thought before I've even had my first cup of coffee drank and breakfast eaten.
I run 4 19" Monitors and yes the new icons are made for bigger screens to make the UI future proof. For example: if you implement a new shader technique, you always need to have fallbacks that people with older hardware still being able to use your program. So why ccp put in icons made for top notch hardware and dont bring a solution for people with older stuff is a miracle to me. just bad implementation technically and also from the marketing point of view.
Maybe if i save the 60euro i spend per month for the game i can buy me some bigger screens
|
Sere O'Asis
Origin Stories
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:34:18 -
[1418] - Quote
Steijn wrote:I still keep giving these a go, the odd hour here and there. Still cant get used to them, and whats even more worrying for me, eye strain and slight headaches have appeared this past week.
At least Elite Dangerous is around to cure my space thirst.
I am experiencing headaches for the first time, too. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
414
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:42:26 -
[1419] - Quote
Pejlona Parek wrote:As this is feedback section I'll be as constructive as I can. ICONS + Very happy with the new icons. I disagree that the old ones worked better.. you couldn't tell the difference between frigate/destroyer, cruiser/battlecruiser etc.. now you can = imho improvement. As with every change, takes a while to get used to. After few days I had no problem reading them, even in fleet battles. - Imo they don't rly fit the modernized UI design, but there is only so much CCP can do with the limited resolution available for the icons.. for example there's no way the icons can look like this ingame, there's just not enough pixels to draw them. One thing I don't understand is what was the reason for the icons to be hollow.. this is probably what the older players are complaining about when addressing "readability in combat".. before BIG cross (mass of colored pixels) meant BIG rat.. now this "corner of the eye" distinguishability is lost and you have to focus on them a lot more. SHIP VISUALS + Ships look very good now. + Caracal looks sick, liking the lamborhini-ish caldari designs - Also noticed a change in the "hangar" icons. Overall ship brightness on these icons increased a lot and minmatars look pink as a side effect. CLIENT ISSUES + Never had any. Even the Play button in the launcher graying out got fixed. SOV CHANGES = Too early to judge those, but I kinda like the direction where this is going. I know this is an older one, but BETA MAP + much better looking + smooth transition between star and solar system maps + allows probing/exploration + visualizes autopilot path when you click on a system + doubleclick to center on item, intuitive - does not highlight region name when you click on a system - no search function yet - wormholes open an extra window inside the map, if map is set to fullscreen the close button for the wormhole system map is located where most players have overview - the map doesn't follow the player, when you jump to another system you have to press "focus current location" to update (to continue scanning for example, gets annoying) Hope this helps :) I dont understand why folk say we needed new icons because the old ones didnt differentiate between a frigate and a destroyer. In the old days, I never had trouble telling a desy from a frig because the type column is right there - there simple were no instances where a rifter was confused with say an algos. The new icons have not improved upon what we had, they only made it worse by cluttering the screen.
In truth, you do not want a system that creates information overload. If everything as a unique icon all you get is a jumble. Instead, you want icons that convey critical information. IMO the only information that should be conveyed by the icons (1) relative size of the ships, i.e. that it is a small, medium or large ship, (2) NPC or Player, and (3) friend, foe or neutral. That way you can say at a glance its hostile or not, and adjust your navigation/approach according to relative size of the ship. Any other information you get by glancing at the type column.
As for the map - it is so broken as to be useless. Sure with all that zooming from universe view to system gives you a gee wiz google earth feel - but people dont drive down the highway doing 80 mph (I have know idea what that is in metric for you eu types) with google earth as their default map. The reason is simple - you dont want to have fiddle with your map as you are trying to extract important info while doing something important such as avoiding crashing. Here, its always fiddle with this, fiddle with that - which is just not viable, unless you happen to be sitting in one place doing nothing important. The map would be much more useful if it was less graphically gee whiz and more map like - its for this reason why imo both the old map and eve dotlan are still better in just about every respect.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Roosterman Clown-lover
Temple of the Five Elements
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 17:56:44 -
[1420] - Quote
FIRST!!!!!
oh, wait a minute...
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHH!!!!! THE ICONS!!!!!!!
anyhoo.. 2 acounts with 3 toons on each. I will, of course, continue training my main on both accounts but the other 4 will be falling off in a few days and will not be adding time to them until something occurs to fix this. I have also been getting headaches the last few days or so and wondered what have been differences in my behavior. Nothing has changed. Been doing the same stuff.. playing the same amount. Only 1 thing has changed...
Also sad that there has been no CCP response in the last few days. It would be nice to hear something...
fly safe o7 |
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
71
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 18:00:00 -
[1421] - Quote
So the answer we receive about this icon disaster in this morning's patch was... strip out the remnants of the old ones you mised to stuff in more of the new icons of migraine induction. AYFKM?????
Starting the hunt for the international dialing code to Iceland and a phone number. Since you won't respond here, perhaps a female voice from Texas will get better attention and a responce other than 'get used to it' or blatant silence. Since 2 accounts are inactive in protest on this fiasco, I can pay for the call when the cellphone bill comes in.
What happened to the theory that CCP was the unique MMO company that actually gave a flip about their customer base? And where are those CSM reps that blew me off in a Petition a couple months ago, dealing with issues just like this on the fast track release schedule and the attack of the chiggers?
I wasn't around for Incarna, but it looks like I'm here for Carnyx. So what is getting blown to bits in protest this time, and which system is it in?
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 18:23:14 -
[1422] - Quote
and there was me getting all excited on having to patch only to find frigging new icons still here........ |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 18:30:27 -
[1423] - Quote
Where is CSM to handle this ....? |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 18:59:32 -
[1424] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Where is CSM to handle this ....?
They're doing the same thing as CCP. Not undocking. Silence speaks volumes.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 19:02:34 -
[1425] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Here is a question: Is a lot of the problems with the new icons we are having simply because our monitor sizes are smaller than at CCP headquarters? Natascha Kerenski wrote:I run 4 19" Monitors and yes the new icons are made for bigger screens to make the UI future proof. But the icons are not future proof for bigger screens, this is the big hilarious laughing stock of all this :c If you scale them up, they look just as bad as if you would scale them down. So instead of implementing a technology in the engine that will either scale them properly, OR make these icons to vectors OR craft each icon set individually, the new icons have been squished into the current client without modification. So they will remain a failure even on bigger screens. Here is case and proof
And even IF the icons would scale absolutely perfectly and would display exactly as they should... I would still have severe issues with the choice of the icons for certain ships. I'm here to place spaceships online and not Monopoly Online
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:I dont understand why folk say we needed new icons because the old ones didnt differentiate between a frigate and a destroyer. In the old days, I never had trouble telling a desy from a frig because the type column is right there You are missing the point. You STILL had to look at the type column to see the difference. This means you had to doublecheck at all times. You got a general size idea, based on small, medium and large weapon systems. Except that was no longer the case the moment when one type of Battlecruisers got large weapons. And the other thing was, a capital ship had no distinction between a battleship icon either, and capital ships are surely a different beast. Although I admit I'm not 100% certain on this one, but I believe the capital ship icon was the same size as battleship.
The idea was to give a distinction on the general ship type, so you would only need the column to check for the tech1 or tech2 variant. While it never was a game-breaking thing, some people have said over the years it might be nice to have something like that. It definitely was not a priority, but it seems CCP hooked on the "screen size grows bigger, so our icons need to match" train. Let us ignore for now how (un)well 4K screens are for gaming, but we've all seen people with very nice large screens... who STILL decide to play on 90% to get even MORE space... without complaining.
The idea was well intended, the prioritization unfitting, the design was bad, and the implementation was worse. CCP used too many pixels per type with not enough consistency in shapes and theme. And among all of the things, the implementation was the worse. The new icons as a beta feature was the LEAST they could do.
But hey, I guess they just ran out of time because... someone is cracking the whip hard for a 6 week update schedule. Who cares if the previous features are broken, as long as the money flows? Oh wait...
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Where is CSM to handle this ....? I don't even want to know how many things the CSM hasn't even remotely seen or had enough time to respond because of this fast update schedule. To me, there is only one fitting definition left... |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
309
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 19:15:37 -
[1426] - Quote
[] |
Myrrax
Apotheosis of Caledvwich Dirt Nap Squad.
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 19:25:13 -
[1427] - Quote
Ok, my two cents - I was directed here fro feedback.
The Wrecks resemble smaller ships to closely to "Quickly" identify them. The wreck icons need to be changed to something not even close to a ship.
yes I can remove them from the overview blah blah yea yea. However if im salvaging I need to see them and identifying a frigate in that mess is nearly impossible to do in time. That's just the first example that came to mind.
Now as for the Icons themselves. I understand why it was needed and I don't mind change at all. As a matter a fact I live ti every day at work. I cannot clearly identify a ship -
Cruiser and BS are very close. Frig and Dessie are distinguishable POS icons - holy crap just stop. Bubbles? why did it need a change? because everything else was?
Change for the sake of change isn't worth it.
Right now my biggest issue is identyfing just ships versus wrecks and other things on grid. Maybe make ships a different color?
rats are red, ships are green - I don't care but something. |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
386
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 19:25:41 -
[1428] - Quote
CCP Claymore and Surge, typing an answer here to tell us of your intentions takes only a few minuts. Your silence is insulting. Won't you show the most basic and minimal respect for your customers ? CCP will you ever learn ?
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:19:36 -
[1429] - Quote
Eraza wrote:I'm quite sure many of the suggestions would love for their work to be used, and would happily sign over the legal rights to those icon mockups for just the honor of having their suggestion put into the actual game.
If this is the problem, then how about that CCP? you do some simple gesture to make all the lawyers happy, and the rest of us get to play with good icons.. :)
Or do I misunderstand the legal issues here? If I had made any of those suggestions then I would happily sign over the legal right to CCP for a limited ed ship skin or probably even just the honor of it. I'd love to be able to brag that a UI suggestion of mine got implemented into an actual game :P IGÇÖm sure itGÇÖs not that simple. Otherwise it would not have taken so long to get the alliance logo problem sorted out.
"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and donGÇÖt belong in Eve Online.
|
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
484
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:19:57 -
[1430] - Quote
Can't get used to the new icons, though I can adapt, but ... I have the feeling EvE lost something important.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
|
Black Ambulance
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:22:45 -
[1431] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Can't get used to the new icons, though I can adapt, but ... I have the feeling EvE lost something important.
It will lose players , I unsubbed like 6 months ago my another 4 accounts due to the minicom icons bad design. I guess CCP want the EVE space just for themselves. |
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:27:04 -
[1432] - Quote
Said it allready but everything else got said again dozens of time aswell so im again saying:
Love the new icons, dont have a problem while exploring, mission running and salvaging. Im not scaling, playing high sec mostly and do no pvp yet. 22" monitor and HD resolution.
So whatever causes eyestraining and headache and all this rant remains a miracle to me .
What i dont like is the new asteroid/rocks design and why ships that were implementet much later become new skins before ships that were allready in ages ago (e.g. my loki) |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
130
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:51:01 -
[1433] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:Love the new icons, dont have a problem while exploring, mission running and salvaging. Im not scaling, playing high sec mostly and do no pvp yet. 22" monitor and HD resolution. So whatever causes eyestraining and headache and all this rant remains a miracle to me . Please try to play the game at 90% scaling and tell me if you still don't get any eyestrain and headaches either c:
Are you playing PvE in highsec? If so, then you can take all the time you want in locking and switching targets, you know what is coming at you, and you know you're not in danger at all. Depending on the ship you're flying, it doesn't even matter what you target because you treat all targets the same. This take away a lot of eyestrain and headaches because you simply don't need to bother. I'm curious if that is the case with your example.
Quote:What i dont like is the new asteroid/rocks design and why ships that were implementet much later become new skins before ships that were allready in ages ago (e.g. my loki) This is a technical limitation. Tech3 Cruisers are basically a modular polygon puzzle, which makes it difficult to paint it properly when taking all possible variations into account. Else it simply does not look good enough.
Actually, you provide a wonderful example! Only because the icons work for a limited, risk free environment at 100% scaling, does not mean they are perfectly fine everywhere else :D I'm not hating or am envious, I just want to know how you would do at 90% and if my speculation about your gaming situation was right. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
418
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 20:59:57 -
[1434] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Olleybear wrote:
[quote=Vol Arm'OOO]I dont understand why folk say we needed new icons because the old ones didnt differentiate between a frigate and a destroyer. In the old days, I never had trouble telling a desy from a frig because the type column is right there
You are missing the point. You STILL had to look at the type column to see the difference. This means you had to doublecheck at all times. You got a general size idea, based on small, medium and large weapon systems. Except that was no longer the case the moment when one type of Battlecruisers got large weapons. And the other thing was, a capital ship had no distinction between a battleship icon either, and capital ships are surely a different beast. Although I admit I'm not 100% certain on this one, but I believe the capital ship icon was the same size as battleship. The idea was to give a distinction on the general ship type, so you would only need the column to check for the tech1 or tech2 variant. While it never was a game-breaking thing, some people have said over the years it might be nice to have something like that. It definitely was not a priority, but it seems CCP hooked on the "screen size grows bigger, so our icons need to match" train. Let us ignore for now how (un)well 4K screens are for gaming, but we've all seen people with very nice large screens... who STILL decide to play on 90% to get even MORE space... without complaining. I mean, they didn't complain back then. Nowadays... well. We know the story. The idea was well intended, the prioritization unfitting, the design was bad, and the implementation was worse. CCP used too many pixels per type with not enough consistency in shapes and theme. And among all of the things, the implementation was the worse. The new icons as a beta feature was the LEAST they could do. But hey, I guess they just ran out of time because... someone is cracking the whip hard for a 6 week update schedule. Who cares if the previous features are broken, as long as the money flows? Oh wait...
Things shouldnt have icons just for the sake of having icons. Capital ships are big giant ships. You can tell what they are simply by looking at them in your overview. No special Icon is necessary. As for having to do a double check - honestly is that a problem? Most of combat navigation in eve is based upon ship size. So if you are in a battle cruiser - you dont want to let the small ship get under your guns or if you are in a frig you want to try to get under the guns of the larger ship, etc. . . But you still always have to look at the ship type because you know you want to know if a ship is logi or a brawler or is going to neut you or something or other. The icons do not convey enough information so, you still have to do your doubletake regardless of whether the icon shows you that it is a frig or not. So all CCP has done is clutter the overview without providing any new useful information. They have made it harder to conduct combat because now you cant see what is going on because of the blizzard of tiny pointless near identical shapes.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 21:32:29 -
[1435] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:Love the new icons, dont have a problem while exploring, mission running and salvaging. Im not scaling, playing high sec mostly and do no pvp yet. 22" monitor and HD resolution. So whatever causes eyestraining and headache and all this rant remains a miracle to me . Please try to play the game at 90% scaling and tell me if you still don't get any eyestrain and headaches either c: Are you playing PvE in highsec? If so, then you can take all the time you want in locking and switching targets, you know what is coming at you, and you know you're not in danger at all. Depending on the ship you're flying, it doesn't even matter what you target because you treat all targets the same. This take away a lot of eyestrain and headaches because you simply don't need to bother. I'm curious if that is the case with your example. Quote:What i dont like is the new asteroid/rocks design and why ships that were implementet much later become new skins before ships that were allready in ages ago (e.g. my loki) This is a technical limitation. Tech3 Cruisers are basically a modular polygon puzzle, which makes it difficult to paint it properly when taking all possible variations into account. Else it simply does not look good enough. Actually, you provide a wonderful example! Only because the icons work for a limited, risk free environment at 100% scaling, does not mean they are perfectly fine everywhere else :D I'm not hating or am envious, I just want to know how you would do at 90% and if my speculation about your gaming situation was right.
Yea right about my gaming style but i dont treat evrey target the same. Im a medium arty specialist and allways need to lock on the frigs/dessis first then going for the cruisers and BS-¦s after this. Thats what i mean i have no problems, actually for me its a big improvment. But my distance to the screen is only about 40-50 cm lol.nd scaling down to 90% blures even my shipconsole UI, looks ****** but as i turned off anti aliasing everything looked sharp again. Mebe thers a issue with the icons? |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
157
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 21:47:44 -
[1436] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:Eraza wrote:I'm quite sure many of the suggestions would love for their work to be used, and would happily sign over the legal rights to those icon mockups for just the honor of having their suggestion put into the actual game.
If this is the problem, then how about that CCP? you do some simple gesture to make all the lawyers happy, and the rest of us get to play with good icons.. :)
Or do I misunderstand the legal issues here? If I had made any of those suggestions then I would happily sign over the legal right to CCP for a limited ed ship skin or probably even just the honor of it. I'd love to be able to brag that a UI suggestion of mine got implemented into an actual game :P IGÇÖm sure itGÇÖs not that simple. Otherwise it would not have taken so long to get the alliance logo problem sorted out.
Another thought, it's very stupid if the legal matter does work that way, because i'm pretty sure everyone drawing mock designs(many of the good ones JUST expanding on the original icons), is trying to help here, not making sure they draw the potential icons before CCP officially does, in some absurd legal scheme.. |
|
CCP Surge
C C P C C P Alliance
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:04:30 -
[1437] - Quote
I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but once that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
|
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
771
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:08:45 -
[1438] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but once that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
if it goes on much longer without reverting back to the old icons until you at least sort a solution out, im afraid some of us will no longer be here.
|
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
297
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:16:36 -
[1439] - Quote
Im happy to hear that this issue is under discussion but i feel a quick rollback is probably for the best for the short term.
Also im not really liking the 90% issue, it seems like a really important and popular feature. Is it just not possible to render icons at 90% and then upscale? Can you all look into ensuring any final designs look at least acceptable at 90%? |
Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
471
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:18:03 -
[1440] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Have you tried big crosses?
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
|
|
Shpongled Victim
Starfighter Command Most Usual Suspects
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:24:56 -
[1441] - Quote
Desert Ice78 wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Have you tried big crosses?
Everything, but please no fckn bold red crosses again! Oh my god, people have to look more sci fi movies to get away with fat red crosses....even the military uses icons that offers more information than a big or small red cross....
|
Thyson Krupp
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:25:55 -
[1442] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
Does the option for simpler group brackets mean we can have back one icon for each ship class? (frig, dessie, cruiser.....) I |
Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:30:52 -
[1443] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%. It's not just 90%. I suspect it's anything that's not 100%. I'm using the UI at 125% and the overview icons are just plain ugly now. |
Don Matteo
Fortuna Executive Fortuna Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:46:18 -
[1444] - Quote
<----Head in hands in despair...........
Just rolled back till u have a solution............ |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
335
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:49:38 -
[1445] - Quote
The old system was amazing. Sometimes you really need to lose something to see how good it really was.
I was having an extreme amount of trouble differentiating drones from frigates yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/k9md0GX.png
People want change, and we all are excited to want to see EvE look and play its best, but not at the expense of functionality.
Iteration on these types of features does NOT belong on the live server. It simply does not. People, myself included, will be less than happy to see repeated iteration on the live server interfere with normal game play until such a time as the new system is perfected. Option to use the old icons is literally the cure all solution in the mean time.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:55:45 -
[1446] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
The last paragraph of option 3 would be better if it simply read "we are looking into adding an option that would be the same as the map choice and allow people to choose new icons or old"
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 22:56:11 -
[1447] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:- Right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
1) Just give us back the NPC crosses temporarily as soon as patchingly possible, THEN you can tinker with a different set. There is nothing in the current graphic set that uses crosses for anything else. Honestly... you can just leave the crosses be once you re-implement them and give them more distinction by changing bar length and cutaways individually, as I mentioned before, at the bottom "untapped potential of old icons".
2) While that is nice, you should have remembered your limitations first. We urge you to rework how the overview itself is functioning. We either need the option to have individual icon sets for individual scalings OR we need vector based icons. In any rate, the overview needs a facelift (target brackets left, colour tag right). We need added functionality to the overview. With that, the icons can be MUCH more useful. Also it it is not just 90% the scaling is universally bad.
3) What are the reasons of the developer to believe the current icon set is an improvement over the previous suggested one? What made you not realize the obvious issues that would come with shipping this? What made you not react to the feedback in the sisi topic?
4) Thank you, but maybe a new topic and devblog once this happens would be more useful because I'm pretty sure a lot of people don't bother reading any more :c Let your playerbase know more publicly that you're doing something about this. Give them hope.
The last thing we want to happen is a second Incarna with 4 to 5 month wait for a change that should have been done in the first place. 4 to 5 months. Think of that. Those are at least 3 new expansions, if you keep the schedule. That means the potential to lose even MORE people is higher than back in Incarna. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
131
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 23:05:40 -
[1448] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:1) Things shouldnt have icons just for the sake of having icons.
2) Capital ships are big giant ships. You can tell what they are simply by looking at them in your overview.
3) As for having to do a double check - honestly is that a problem? Most of combat navigation in eve is based upon ship size. So if you are in a battle cruiser - you dont want to let the small ship get under your guns or if you are in a frig you want to try to get under the guns of the larger ship, etc. . . But you still always have to look at the ship type because you know you want to know if a ship is logi or a brawler or is going to neut you or something or other.
4) The icons do not convey enough information so, you still have to do your doubletake regardless of whether the icon shows you that it is a frig or not. So all CCP has done is clutter the overview without providing any new useful information. They have made it harder to conduct combat because now you cant see what is going on because of the blizzard of tiny pointless near identical shapes. 1) I agree with you wholeheartedly c: sometimes, not having an icon at all is a much better indicator than any icon ever could do. Which is something I mentioned in my previous posts too.
2) At a certain zoom level, the main screen becomes irrelevant. Then the overview window is the only thing you play with. And honestly, this has been displayed more than often enough, that people play far zoomed out to keep their performance levels up and play the rest of the game via overview.
3) That is correct in a generic pvp environment, most of the time you look at the type anyway. So with the old icons, the intent to look at the type icon was to check something like "is this a command ship or is this a logi" or "is this an interdictor or an assault ship." With the current icons, the intention was to reduce this by one size. So if you wanted to check for logis by icon, there would only be one icon to check for, and not two any more. This would potentially reduce search-time. Of course, the endless argument of countless (that is, 5) tabs for dedicated anti-logistics hunters is another thing. But now, it is down to: "Is this a regular destroyer, a T3 destroyer or an interdictor". That is, if you can correctly decipher the icon as being destroyer sized to begin with. it means that... in theory... things can be narrowed down a bit further.
4) This is true too, and the question is if they ever should. We can imagine there could be a way to add the top left corner an indicator of tech2, tech3 and faction into the overview, without cluttering the icon space itself. Art is science. So again, in THEORY the idea of breaking down ship types further would make it more useful to find the right target. In reality, the badly designed icons prohibit that :c
Eraza wrote:Another thought, it's very stupid if the legal matter does work that way, because i'm pretty sure everyone drawing mock designs(many of the good ones JUST expanding on the original icons), is trying to help here, not making sure they draw the potential icons before CCP officially does, in some absurd legal scheme.. Actually, I think I remember Arenanet saying something like that they cannot directly implement detailed player suggestions as it would have legal problems. But if we keep in CCP land, I'm not sure if you followed the legal issue about the alliance icons? Look at this for example. Apparently, CCP claims the IP on the derivative work that is caused by this grey noise filter. Apparently, that is legal and fine when it really should not be. But I don't want to make this thing an issue again, the devblog regarding the alliance icons and the related fuss is here . |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1187
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 23:06:39 -
[1449] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Dangeresque Too wrote:Chainsaw Plankton wrote:When I am in space and have a local, other chats, D-scan, overview, cargo, drones, and overview on my screen I can't see space at 100%, or my windows get resized to be too small to see what I want to see, at 90% I feel like I have a cluttered but mostly alright view 90%: http://i.imgur.com/WYeAaWi.jpg 100%: http://i.imgur.com/4uzetyb.jpg I didn't completely finish lining up everything on the 100% example. the cargo overlaps the 8th turret slot, and the local chat box is covered. I also forogt the d-scan window, but at 90% it kinda fits in with the chat boxes, at 100% it just blocks the view. I could also see putting it above the targeted items next to the overview, but then that might limit ability to drag targets to different rows. I've noticed a trend over the recent years of CCP working to remove as much utility space from our screens as possible. Making the minimum size of windows larger, text larger, etc. This ends up in situations where people have increasingly less "space scene" on their display, and more "internet spreadsheets". If they want to break away from that stereotype they need to upgrade the UI, and not by making things bigger. There was a nice pic shown at 2014 fanfest that showed a modern/futuristic UI that didn't look like spreadsheets in space, but we haven't heard a peep about it since. On the UI updates that have rolled out since I started (ignoring the icons bad! threadnaught) I'm set at 90% resolution for more screen space to work with due to windows expanding on me. Though I like the cleanup/streamlining to Industry that was once a confusing mess, that window EATS screen space hardcore. In scaling open windows so I can at least pretend to see what's going on, it's the tradeoff of being able to actually use the info in those open windows when I scale them and still leave viewing space for paranoia checks around my ships. At 100% scale, it simply can't happen. It is not from lack of inches on the monitor, it's a 32 inch screen area. Windows, open tabs, etc, are just getting bigger and bulkier, not a good thing for me when I have stuff open so I can prep for incoming troubles. >Jeven
I think the main thing is I want more information now than I did years ago, I'm looking at screenshots from 2008 and my overview, selected items, and drone windows are all in the default place with my targets going across the top. My overview had icons and then distance, name, and type. And I have all my chat windows stacked in one window. From what I can see none of the UI elements got unnecessarily big. If anything today it is better now that there is the option to use compact member lists as chats tend to take up a large portion of my screen. I have more info in less space with UI scaling at 90%. and that I think most things just look better in general just helps
And I agree the UI for Industry could use a bit of work, and does it really need an image preview bit? but I don't try and do industry when I'm flying around space so I'm not really worried about it in this scope.
@ChainsawPlankto
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slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 23:10:51 -
[1450] - Quote
hummm.. 30minutes to launch the game and... finally less than 5 minutes to use the "quit game" button! this one works perfectly ^^ dont change this icon! |
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Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.09 23:14:12 -
[1451] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
Finally, at least a response! Thanks for that. If the 90% scaling is a known problem, I would suggest taking a hard look at fixing that before too many more fast track releases show up, now that it's becoming known that it's not a rare few using that scaling. Now you also know your customer base isn't completely full of 20/20 vision individuals, please take that into account on further upgrades to the graphics from here forward. The one that I have not found, which boggles my mind, is a simple 'contrast' and 'brightness' slider to adjust ingame graphics. That choice to use the 'classic' icons would also help with account activity retention.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 00:06:58 -
[1452] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
...
Hello,
Please, don't create another set of icons for the NPC ships. We already have a lot of new icons to remember. And an icon representing a ship type should be the same everywhere. There are other means for differentiating the NPC ship vs Players ship without changing icons. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE.
13378
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 00:50:47 -
[1453] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Personally, I suggest a plus sign, possibly in the color red. Tongue in cheek aside, what on earth was wrong with the old system? If you saw red, you knew immediately that it was not a player ship.
Quote:
We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size. This is a huge understatement. Some of these are sufficiently indistinct as to blur the line between two or more ship hull size categories. It gets much worse if drones are involved, to the level of a goddamned nightmare.
Say what you want about the old system, it was clear quickly what size ship you were dealing with, and whether said ship was a player or NPC vessel. It might have only done one thing, but it did it well.
Quote: While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape.
I'll say this. I play EVE on a laptop. The recent changes have made the game much, much worse of an experience for me than it previously was. This far exceeds the problem with the instant popup tooltips.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
|
Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 01:48:39 -
[1454] - Quote
Well .... I read the post by CCP Surge several times and then ran the text through my version of the Universal Translator (with the BS filter activated) and was not surprised for the result to be "No reversion to old icons - CCP to make attempt to deceive players into thinking their comments are being considered seriously. Continue to stall and ignore the unacceptability of new icons. Carry on!"
I've seen stuff like this before - in companies that no longer exist... |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 01:50:10 -
[1455] - Quote
Grubgrafter wrote:and there was me getting all excited on having to patch only to find frigging new icons still here........
Fix this CCP. Was excited to see a patch, until...
Give us the option to use the legacy icons.
wtb CSM |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
31
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 02:28:33 -
[1456] - Quote
well 7 days for a reply.... just to say we are looking into it............. Tooo much like coke when they tried new coke was a total failure just like the changes to this game.......Oh but coke listened to their customers...... The failure to listen to the customers...........when you lose customers you never get them all back....... and the time it takes you to respond shows your true intent...... open your eyes ccp this will cost you.....
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Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
526
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 02:51:39 -
[1457] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Have you tried big crosses? Everything, but please no fckn bold red crosses again! Oh my god, people have to look more sci fi movies to get away with fat red crosses....even the military uses icons that offers more information than a big or small red cross....
It would be nice to land on grid and see, the Ishtar sitting 50K away as an Ishtar instead of an icon but reality is - We can't. Reality is, we need icons that are easily identifiable, quickly.
Most people I know use 90% scaling because it is not so screen consuming, available screen space to look at moons, watch missile trails or see the guy next to you explode, is sort of important. If we don't have the option to see what is in space around us (because the overview takes up half your screen landscape) we may as well do away with all the pretties and just play with overviews.
Even at 90% scaling, once you have fleet windows up, local separated from the stack, fleet chat on one side and other chat windows crammed as far out of the way as possible (while still being able to read them if needed), plus any other windows you need open just to do what it is you want to do. There isn't much space left for anything else, like background effects, etc.
If what was suggested by CCP surge is correct, Quote:We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%. It is a huge issue. Players should not have to compromise because a feature isn't, or can't be, properly supported.
"We'll add it, if it is easy", probably isn't a good design trend. Especially for one of the most important features of the whole game. How pretty the game looks is unimportant if adding texture filtering for a fundamental part of the game may be too hard. If the icons as they are can't be fully supported, we need new icons (but not the old ones)
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
391
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 03:36:54 -
[1458] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
I already said what I had to say, so only a short remark from me and then I will stop posting here.
I'd like to remind you, that some people paid their subscriptions for a few months in advance. In my case my subscriptions (non recurring) are running til mid September before I need to add game time again. I just mention this, because I wouldn't like to see you get away with insisting "it wasn't me" in mid September.
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
836
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 03:42:40 -
[1459] - Quote
This really is turning in to a disaster. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 04:20:59 -
[1460] - Quote
If you can't make it work with the existing game modes/features, don't release it. |
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
837
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 04:48:44 -
[1461] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:If you can't make it work with the existing game modes/features, don't release it. The apparent surprise and lack of preparedness on the part of the developers leads me to question whether it really is a case of the changes failing regression testing and then being released regardless. As I find it hard to believe that they would be so clearly blindsided by their own substandard work only days after they choose to release it.
Instead, I'm seeing this behaviour as indicative of much deeper problems.
I sincerely hope that the CSM can pull this one back out of the fire before too much damage is done. |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
390
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 05:24:41 -
[1462] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote: we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system. [/list]
Then why the hell don't you simply give us the choice to use the old icons ?
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 05:39:36 -
[1463] - Quote
Bizarre, the only way CCP could respond to the icon feedback was to completely ignore 99% of it...
Ostrich head stuck in the sand box time again.... Promises, promises... Kind of remember the promises made by CCP management after the failed 'walking around stations' release.. and we are back there again.. Ignoring player feedback that isn't in tune with DEV thinking..
Bizarre..
Why release something into the main game that is clearly not ready? Rolling back would be a better option than leaving it in its current state..
Speaking to CSM after SISI testing would have made sense, talking to them now while leaving new icons in place is a joke...
|
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
390
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 05:47:21 -
[1464] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons. [/list]
Why bothering meeting people who have shown absolutely no interest in this concern ? There's not one post from a CSM member in these 1500 posts !
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
79
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 06:33:30 -
[1465] - Quote
Look, while you wait to have your meeting of Dev and CSM uberness, how about that option to use the old icons until you can whomp up a set of new ones that pass the sniff and squint test? Then those that like the new icons can keep them, those of us that really need those old ones back can do more than ship spin or distribution missions, and you have breathing space to do something other than change for change's sake.
Like, perhaps, take a hard thoughtful look at your admitted substandard scaling setup.
Or silly things like contrast and brightness sliders.
Or the null-fracas going on with rookie ships fitted with entosis links shutting down stations on a whim.
Or the still broken Notification Tab issues.
Or the Launcher of EverBuggyness.
Or the Beta Map of shiny but mostly gimped.
Or the Opportunities of completely discarded after release.
The more I experience this fast track release schedule, the more I'm thinking you might wanna hit the brakes, cool the ABs out of overheat, and give quality over broken quantity.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 06:34:34 -
[1466] - Quote
Guristas Ghost Sites still feature red crosses, even after today's patch. Enjoy it while you can. |
beakerax
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
160
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 07:18:31 -
[1467] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
snip
<3 |
Steijn
Quay Industries
775
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 07:29:21 -
[1468] - Quote
well ive slept on CCPs latest attempt at a peace offering and quite frankly, it stinks. Complete lack of regard for the paying customer and a mentality of 'its our game and we'll do what we want even though it might make it look worse than it originally was'.
I did hope that this would be rectified before my subs expired. Safe to say after the statement last night that this will not be the case. You dont need to meet the CSM to try to contain this. All you need to do is to reinstate the old icons, either permanently, or temporarily until you find a solution, and actually do what most players want.
I do wish CCP would have the balls to admit when they are totally wrong and not continually try to worm their way out of any mistakes they make. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
136
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 10:05:28 -
[1469] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:scaling down to 90% blures even my shipconsole UI, looks ****** but as i turned off anti aliasing everything looked sharp again. Mebe thers a issue with the icons? Could you please post screenshots of that? When I change scaling to 90% or 125% the icons look exactly the same, no matter if I have anti-aliasing on high or off. Also, thank you for proving that a large part of the issue is with UI scaling c:
Louanne Barros wrote:Guristas Ghost Sites still feature red crosses, even after today's patch. Enjoy it while you can. Could you please post screenshots of those for ... you know... for nostalgia? *snickers*
Bad Bobby wrote:The apparent surprise and lack of preparedness on the part of the developers leads me to question whether it really is a case of the changes failing regression testing and then being released regardless. As I find it hard to believe that they would be so clearly blindsided by their own substandard work only days after they choose to release it. It becomes more and more clear to me that developers simply do not have the time to work on features properly because management thinks it is a great idea to poop out content faster than they can eat. Case and proof for that: https://updates.eveonline.com/ . Do you remember when we had a lot of patches in the future? Now we barely see the next one with meagre features. Not only seems CCP to have run dry on content that can be delivered, but they're caught neck deep in the problems of previous patches. Next, if we look at devblogs... there is nothing on the horizon. What will happen after fozzysov is deployed completely? Where are Eve's goals?
Louanne Barros: "If you can't make it work with the existing game modes/features, don't release it." Tao Dolcino: "Why bothering meeting people who have shown absolutely no interest in this concern ? There's not one post from a CSM member in these 1500 posts !"
I find it appalling to not have even seen a single CSM post in this entire topic. Even if all of them don't mind the icon issue doesn't mean they should ignore the huge problems we're facing. If things go on like that, we're dipping back into 2007 in terms of player count and the older playerbase will continue to fade away. CCP will keep making money from people who log in, play 3 or 4 months and then go again. No game survived long without a strongly established playerbase.
Eve has done so many great things, and it has proven so often that time and age does not matter. Only two years ago, Eve was keeping strong and bold in terms of player counters. But since the fast paced content schedule came, you're losing it. A lot. Subscriptions mean not much if your concurrent players decrease. It simply means more alt accounts with less player diversity. That is not what you want, as video game company of high reputation.
Eve... CCP... you started to make history in 2003 and kept making good history throughout many years. You made history by acknowledging the Incarna failure, and came out stronger than ever. You do not need to repeat mistakes and you just need to look outside the office window to how other game companies have become utter failures. Maybe money-milking machines, but still failures.
Please do not steer New Eden into a soulless, heartless oblivion filled with superficial shiny things :c |
Black Ambulance
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 10:19:08 -
[1470] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:scaling down to 90% blures even my shipconsole UI, looks ****** but as i turned off anti aliasing everything looked sharp again. Mebe thers a issue with the icons? Could you please post screenshots of that? When I change scaling to 90% or 125% the icons look exactly the same, no matter if I have anti-aliasing on high or off. Also, thank you for proving that a large part of the issue is with UI scaling c: Louanne Barros wrote:Guristas Ghost Sites still feature red crosses, even after today's patch. Enjoy it while you can. Could you please post screenshots of those for ... you know... for nostalgia? *snickers* Bad Bobby wrote:The apparent surprise and lack of preparedness on the part of the developers leads me to question whether it really is a case of the changes failing regression testing and then being released regardless. As I find it hard to believe that they would be so clearly blindsided by their own substandard work only days after they choose to release it. It becomes more and more clear to me that developers simply do not have the time to work on features properly because management thinks it is a great idea to poop out content faster than they can eat. Case and proof for that: https://updates.eveonline.com/ . Do you remember when we had a lot of patches in the future? Now we barely see the next one with meagre features. Not only seems CCP to have run dry on content that can be delivered, but they're caught neck deep in the problems of previous patches. Next, if we look at devblogs... there is nothing on the horizon. What will happen after fozzysov is deployed completely? Where are Eve's goals? Louanne Barros: "If you can't make it work with the existing game modes/features, don't release it." Tao Dolcino: "Why bothering meeting people who have shown absolutely no interest in this concern ? There's not one post from a CSM member in these 1500 posts !" I find it appalling to not have even seen a single CSM post in this entire topic. Even if all of them don't mind the icon issue doesn't mean they should ignore the huge problems we're facing. If things go on like that, we're dipping back into 2007 in terms of player count and the older playerbase will continue to fade away. CCP will keep making money from people who log in, play 3 or 4 months and then go again. No game survived long without a strongly established playerbase. Eve has done so many great things, and it has proven so often that time and age does not matter. Only two years ago, Eve was keeping strong and bold in terms of player counters. But since the fast paced content schedule came, you're losing it. A lot. Subscriptions mean not much if your concurrent players decrease. It simply means more alt accounts with less player diversity. That is not what you want, as video game company of high reputation. Eve... CCP... you started to make history in 2003 and kept making good history throughout many years. You made history by acknowledging the Incarna failure, and came out stronger than ever. You do not need to repeat mistakes and you just need to look outside the office window to how other game companies have become utter failures. Maybe money-milking machines, but still failures. Please do not steer New Eden into a soulless, heartless oblivion filled with superficial shiny things :c
Next patch we may have colored neocoms icons , yay :)
|
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
126
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 10:36:25 -
[1471] - Quote
Quote:1. First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Jesus
Are you deaf or blind or again you are doing what you want?! I will try with simple English words
1. PVP overview icons - simple SQUARE as before for ANY SHIPS CLASS!!! 2. NPC overview icons - BIG cross for BS, med cross for BC, small cross for frigates as before!!!
3. IF SOMEONE wants to use new icons make an option to change it if player wish!! |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 11:35:54 -
[1472] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
5. adding a option to use the old sets of icons/brackets for players that cant see the new icons
the icons is to small to have 20 diffrent variants of triangles whit added lines etc in the small space that can fitt in to a ov icon or in a space bracket ...
the old + [ ] X was good because it was easy to see and was easy to scal up whitout and info getting lost
ccp there are only 1 option at this point, give me a option to use the old icons/brackets so i can play again, then ccp/csm/and who ever wants to try to fix the new icons can do that and get good feedback from ppl wanting to use them and not just have to read all of usless (like this) posts that only say "give me them back"
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Ereilian
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
103
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 11:36:31 -
[1473] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Quote:1. First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players. Jesus Are you deaf or blind or again you are doing what you want?! I will try with simple English words 1. PVP overview icons - simple SQUARE as before for ANY SHIPS CLASS!!!2. NPC overview icons - BIG cross for BS, med cross for BC, small cross for frigates as before!!!3. IF SOMEONE wants to use new icons make an option to change it if player wish!!
Sadly CCP have once again shown a total disregard for feedback during "testing" on SiSi and have driven through a change that was not asked for and has received almost universal condemnation.
In other words, business as usual. Deploy stuff no one wants, ignore stuff that are still broken 12 years later, if anyone mentions fixing POS kill the post with fire.
Greed is good is still alive and well.
|
Benito Arias
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
104
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 11:37:13 -
[1474] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
1. Are you saying you are considering doubling the amount of shapes? This is just wrong, the existing amount of them already breaks things (reading grid and overview).
2. So admit that is broken, and you are going to keep it so for the nearest feature. Brilliant.
3. Yes, the groups are hard to tell apart. Yes, that also mean your intended telling classes apart thingy has become slower, too. No, slightly more distinctive and simpler is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for "cross-X-bracket" type distinctive and "cross-X-bracket" type simple. That simple, please.
4. I think the significance is kind of lost on you. It's been a week since you released this thing which both Sisi feedback thread and the release feedback thread say does not work, and you are still into making small adjustments to it.
CCP Surge, is there any chance you could roll back from what's broken to what was not (classic brackets) while you are considering and experimenting and meeting and keeping us informed on further actions. Pretty please, with a cherry on top?
|
Kiera Oramara
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 11:57:14 -
[1475] - Quote
Please stop dragging your feets Just give us the old icons back........ |
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 12:12:21 -
[1476] - Quote
@CCP
Can you please tell us what you plan with the icons or what options you discussed?
Will come the (clear) old icons back or will there be a choice between old and new or will coming completely different icons up or will you ignore the concerns of the players base?
Is there a problem that keeps you from going into the desires or needs it just time for a rollback respectively a choice between old and new? The selection would be I think the best way. Although like most the new icons do not, but a few like this.
Please talk to us, your community, your paying customers! |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 12:36:37 -
[1477] - Quote
Ereilian wrote:[ .............................................. In other words, business as usual. Deploy stuff no one wants, ignore stuff that are still broken 12 years later, if anyone mentions fixing POS kill the post with fire. ..............................................
Yep, except for the little detail that for the POS example they decided to just kill it off completely instead of fixing it.
If that decision was made out of laziness ("ah ****, lets just grab this standard ship coding modules, do some little modifications and get away with it..."), incompetence ("uh, look at that mass of poor documented code - there-¦s no way I-¦m gonna get that right... ") or true insight in the better for the game ("its too complex, nuanced and flexible for our players and this game!") is up to anyones guess.
- if the player base thinks a feature is fine and no one is complaining (overview) => it gets fixed with a complete overhaul
- if the player base wants a fix for a feature (certain pos aspects like containers and some menues) => the feature gets completely discontinued and replaced by something completely new that makes part of the old users vomit blood ....
good job devs .... really good job.
It-¦s sad too see, but for me it feels like its CCP itself, that needs some overhaul. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 13:22:58 -
[1478] - Quote
This is totally a joke.... yesterday took 45 min to get on...and had to reload old repair tool to do so... today had to do the same as it rewrites the new 1 they are not fixing anything just working around things....and launcher should b correct at all times.... not even getting into the game issues
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 13:40:49 -
[1479] - Quote
lol maybe we need to post on all forum threads... then maybe they will get the picture as they will b at least seeing them as they delete them
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
423
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 13:53:09 -
[1480] - Quote
Shpongled Victim wrote:Desert Ice78 wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Have you tried big crosses? Everything, but please no fckn bold red crosses again! Oh my god, people have to look more sci fi movies to get away with fat red crosses....even the military uses icons that offers more information than a big or small red cross....
When the military make icons for use, they use them to convey only important information, generally on specialized displays viewed by highly trained individuals.. In contrast, EVE users have standard, sometimes small old monitors, and are not heavily trained. Moreover, CCP has been slapping icons on to everything, regardless of importance - so now its "oh look there is a rock," "hey over there is even a bigger rock." In short, EVE needs a very limited set of simple icons which only display information that is critical to core game play, e.g. npc or player, hostile or not, size of ship. The original set, while not fancy, fit almost perfectly. In truth anything more complicated and fancy, such as what ccp has now proposed leads to information overload, clutter, and confusion.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
|
Jungleland Roy
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 13:55:47 -
[1481] - Quote
CCP I appreciate a response but honestly this is just not good enough.
You have underestimated the number of players who use 90% and accepted that the icons don't look good at 90% also. Now as to whether you should have known how many players use 90% - that is a debatable point GÇô the discussion of which probably won't yield any fruitful results.
But there is a known problem with UI scaling so let's draw a line under this, revert to the old icons and let people play again. Then you can begin the big discussion with players and CSM and see what options are available to move forward GÇô but at least roll it back first.
Is there some loss of face associated with a roll back that you are not willing to countenance? Come on GÇô just take the big decision and get the game playable for the majority.
It's not just the mistake of underestimating the numbers who use 90% scaling GÇô it's also your actions upon discovering the mistake that says a lot about the company attitude. We all make mistakes GÇô I haven't got a problem with that. But GÇ£toughingGÇ¥ it out and saying we are looking at it while leaving the game in such a state is going to get people quitting. Something no-one wants.
Roy
_if you could fly it before, you can fly it now.-á_
Read the Blog.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
424
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 14:02:18 -
[1482] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Ereilian wrote:[ .............................................. In other words, business as usual. Deploy stuff no one wants, ignore stuff that are still broken 12 years later, if anyone mentions fixing POS kill the post with fire. ..............................................
Yep, except for the little detail that for the POS example they decided to just kill it off completely instead of fixing it. If that decision was made out of laziness ("ah ****, lets just grab this standard ship coding modules, do some little modifications and get away with it..."), incompetence ("uh, look at that mass of poor documented code - there-¦s no way I-¦m gonna get that right... ") or true insight in the better for the game ("its too complex, nuanced and flexible for our players and this game!") is up to anyones guess. - if the player base thinks a feature is fine and no one is complaining (overview) => it gets fixed with a complete overhaul - if the player base wants a fix for a feature (certain pos aspects like containers and some menues) => the feature gets completely discontinued and replaced by something completely new that makes part of the old users vomit blood .... good job devs .... really good job. It-¦s sad too see, but for me it feels like its CCP itself, that needs some overhaul.
IMO CCP development has been on a downward slide for a couple of years now. They've lost sight of what made the game good, i.e. that it was a niche game that reveled in its difficulty and apparent player freedom. For a while now they have been chipping away at the sandbox. For instance, tiercide (giving roles to every ship) was a direct assault on player freedom - basically it amounted to CCP saying this is what this ship is for and this is how you should fly it, which is the exact opposite of what you want in a sandbox. The cumulative effect has been that people have been voting with their feet. Eve no longer sees ever increasing subscriptions but instead a gradual leveling off and/or slide. Its unfortunate.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
133
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 14:44:42 -
[1483] - Quote
I try to send them a fax but it's off because it is obviously that they not read the forum.
Why don't you make a vote for the icons? Old one VS new one |
TuCZnak
My Private Tax Shelter
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 14:47:03 -
[1484] - Quote
Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx.
And looking at the Dotlan statistics, if we compare statistics for the first 10 days of June and first 10 days of May, there are:
15k less highsec kills 12k less lowsec kills 16k less nullsec kills
4M less highsec jumps 700k less lowsec jumps 1,5M less nullsec jumps
All these statistics amount to roughly 15% loss of active players, varying slightly by region. So 10% of players don't login anymore and additional 5% went from playing to ship spinning... Just some food for thought. My personal guess, somebody's getting fired because of this mess. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
139
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 14:50:50 -
[1485] - Quote
Sophia Mileghere wrote:Is there a problem that keeps you from going into the desires or needs it just time for a rollback respectively a choice between old and new? My guess is: Management says "nope" but I will stand corrected if I am proven wrong.
Orm Magnustat wrote:1) If that decision was made out of laziness ("ah ****, lets just grab this standard ship coding modules, do some little modifications and get away with it...")...
2) if the player base thinks a feature is fine and no one is complaining (overview) => it gets fixed with a complete overhaul 1) Actually, I liked the idea to use it like modules and ship fitting. This feels a lot more like "Eve" than "windows online"
2) You mean icons. The overview itself SHOULD receive a facelift. 5 tabs is clearly not enough for some, there are still options lacking, sorting doesn't work the way it should, filters are being ignored, making a second instance of the Overview is something the vast majority of people that I asked would like, etc. About the icons... well... only because people didn't COMPLAIN means every single one of them was perfectly fine with the icons. Most just got used to them so much that they didn't bother to think about improvements. Some however, did.
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:even the military uses icons that offers more information than a big or small red cross.... 1) When the military make icons for use, they use them to convey only important information, generally on specialized displays viewed by highly trained individuals.. In contrast, EVE users have standard, sometimes small old monitors, and are not heavily trained. 2) They've lost sight of what made the game good, i.e. that it was a niche game that reveled in its difficulty and apparent player freedom. For instance, tiercide (giving roles to every ship) was a direct assault on player freedom - basically it amounted to CCP saying this is what this ship is for and this is how you should fly it 1) Vol beat me to it, thank you *snickers*
2) Wait a minute... what? Players still can and do fit the ship how they want to. I'm seeing Procurers and Nereus kill people. But wait, no, those are clearly designed for mining and hauling goods... I must be spreading lies! Tiericide was important in the case that a player would get out of a ship sooner, and being able to pick a ship easier based on what they want to do. Remember the old Merlin? to make it really effective, you had to have missile and gunnery skills BOTH up to par. Or think about the Venture. This was a godsent and managed to give left-out frigates finally a distinct reason to exist as their mining bonuses were removed. Sure, some things are weird. For example, why Gallente Command ships need two missile launcher hardpoints. But to call tiericide a complete failure is simply not cutting it.
I also question everyone who says "eve is only for the smart". It should not be hard to learn, it should be hard to master. A game is not difficult because the information how to play better it is hidden deep within the mechanics. That just makes it unnecessarily convoluted. If anyone needs to feel like a special snowflake because they require high mathematics to actually play the game, then that is their "problem".
TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx. 10% is more than I anticipated. When I just look at concurrent players, we've lost 1500 people on average, which is less than 10% of the concurrent player counter. Who knows where the true number lies. |
TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 15:32:42 -
[1486] - Quote
Yea,same think,i`m logging rarely and rarely ,these icons... |
DexterShark
The Night Watchmen The Bastion
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 15:38:57 -
[1487] - Quote
The CCP response to this thread is painful.
Let me make this easy for you, CCP:-
[ ] This is a player ship, the bigger the size, the bigger the ship class. A rectangle shape is an industrial ship.
+ This is an NPC, the bigger the size, the bigger the ship class. A red cross is a rat / hostile, white is concord / peaceful.
x This is a drone.
If I want to see the specific type of ship or drone, I look at the name and category in the overview list.
Also:- Square = Station Filled circle = Sun Empty circle = Planet Empty cirle with a side dot = Moon Empty circle with a side wedge = Stargate
You're welcome.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
428
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 15:40:30 -
[1488] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Shpongled Victim wrote:even the military uses icons that offers more information than a big or small red cross.... 1) When the military make icons for use, they use them to convey only important information, generally on specialized displays viewed by highly trained individuals.. In contrast, EVE users have standard, sometimes small old monitors, and are not heavily trained. 2) They've lost sight of what made the game good, i.e. that it was a niche game that reveled in its difficulty and apparent player freedom. For instance, tiercide (giving roles to every ship) was a direct assault on player freedom - basically it amounted to CCP saying this is what this ship is for and this is how you should fly it 1) Vol beat me to it, thank you *snickers* 2) Wait a minute... what? Players still can and do fit the ship how they want to. I'm seeing Procurers and Nereus kill people. But wait, no, those are clearly designed for mining and hauling goods... I must be spreading lies! Tiericide was important in the case that a player would get something out of a ship sooner, and being able to pick a ship easier based on what they want to do. Remember the old Merlin? to make it really effective, you had to have missile and gunnery skills BOTH up to par. Or think about the Venture. This was a godsent and managed to give left-out frigates finally a distinct reason to exist as their mining bonuses were removed. Sure, some things are weird. For example, why Gallente Command ships need two missile launcher hardpoints. But to call tiericide a complete failure is simply not cutting it.
I counter your procurers and nereus with an osprey. Once upon a time it was a newbee mining platform, a logi, and a great can baiter. Now all it is, is a logi. What else is it used for? Look at mining barges -- the relevant choices have been made by ccp, not the players - you want tank you pick skiff/procurer, cargo space reteriver, yield mack, and as for the hulk it has been largely relegated to null sec fleet mining ops. The list goes on. Sure there are one offs such as the procurers or nereus where they are used in unexpected ways, but there are substantially more ships that have been constrained by their role and fitting requirements be nothing but what the role indicates it should be. Roles are a terrible idea for a sandbox. Why should it be ccp that is saying this is a missile boat while that is ac; or this is armor and that is shield? IMO tiercide failed because it did not achieve ship balance, instead merely causing a changing in the fotm - and worse caused a net decrease in player freedom and choice. Sure it was not all bad, as we got to see more use of some little used ships, but it was an the expense of net player freedom of choice. And those previously little favored ships have now become dominate, so we are basically back to where we started from but with less room for player innovation.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 15:53:51 -
[1489] - Quote
This is definitely not the place to discuss fittings and tiericide, which is why I am not going to reply to you in detail and continue to throw counters to your counters. So of all the things I would like to say, I only pick one, and that is: Osprey is a better logistics ship now than it ever was before, and it was stupid anyway to skill into combat ships if you wanted to get started with mining in the game. The response was the Venture, and what an amazing response it was. Oh and Battle-Venture is not an uncommon sight either. Other players completely ignore inherent ship bonuses and do something else with it, which means they're also breaking expectations, which is a very interesting element of surprise in pvp. Only because a ship has bonuses to something, doesn't mean it cannot be used for anything else. So this is largely opinion based and not fact based anyway, and I guess we will agree to disagree in the end. How relevant is your signature anyway these days? c: |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
402
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:21:32 -
[1490] - Quote
TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx.
And looking at the Dotlan statistics, if we compare statistics for the first 10 days of June and first 10 days of May, there are:
15k less highsec kills 12k less lowsec kills 16k less nullsec kills
4M less highsec jumps 700k less lowsec jumps 1,5M less nullsec jumps
All these statistics amount to roughly 15% loss of active players, varying slightly by region. So 10% of players don't login anymore and additional 5% went from playing to ship spinning... Just some food for thought. My personal guess, somebody's getting fired because of this mess.
I think that no one will be fired, or if so, not the right person (the decision maker) just a poor scapegoat who had no other choice than to follow the orders. Why ? Because they don't acknoledge the facts. All what they think is : "stupid players, they are conservative, narrow minded and unable to adapt to the changes, they are never happy, they are unable to appreciate the wonderful thing we are bringing to them". CCP are too proud to consider the possibility that their genial ideas are bad for the game and put live half-finished, half-tested. It's just like Incarna, the similarity is striking.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
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Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
131
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 16:59:12 -
[1491] - Quote
Large Collidable Structure brackets do not show in space until clicked on, not particularly helpful. Also large collidable objects have been neglected an icon, while there are 12 different icons for different types of containers. |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
160
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:02:03 -
[1492] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx.
And looking at the Dotlan statistics, if we compare statistics for the first 10 days of June and first 10 days of May, there are:
15k less highsec kills 12k less lowsec kills 16k less nullsec kills
4M less highsec jumps 700k less lowsec jumps 1,5M less nullsec jumps
All these statistics amount to roughly 15% loss of active players, varying slightly by region. So 10% of players don't login anymore and additional 5% went from playing to ship spinning... Just some food for thought. My personal guess, somebody's getting fired because of this mess. I think that no one will be fired, or if so, not the right person (the decision maker) just a poor scapegoat who had no other choice than to follow the orders. Why ? Because they don't acknoledge the facts. All what they think is : "stupid vets, they are conservative, narrow minded and unable to adapt to the changes, they are never happy, they are unable to appreciate the wonderful thing we are bringing to them". CCP are too proud to consider the possibility that their genial ideas are bad for the game and put live half-finished, half-tested. It's just like Incarna, the similarity is striking.
All blame aside, I have to agree on the similarity, I don't think the ideas are bad though. I quite liked the idea of updating the icons, I am however VERY disappointed in the execution of that plan.
Similar to Incarna, the captains quarters we got was about.. 3% of what Incarna promised to deliver. We were promised a whole new world in the game, to explore, and interact with.. and got: One room, with heavy microtransaction flavor.
So yeah, I was fuming at Incarna, and am very disappointed and annoyed now, not because I dislike the ideas in question, quite the opposite in fact, but because the execution was so bad that I cant find any excuse for it. just should not have been released in this state.. it's not ready.. :( |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
850
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:14:45 -
[1493] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Bad Bobby wrote:The apparent surprise and lack of preparedness on the part of the developers leads me to question whether it really is a case of the changes failing regression testing and then being released regardless. As I find it hard to believe that they would be so clearly blindsided by their own substandard work only days after they choose to release it. It becomes more and more clear to me that developers simply do not have the time to work on features properly because management thinks it is a great idea to poop out content faster than they can eat. Case and proof for that: https://updates.eveonline.com/ . Do you remember when we had a lot of patches in the future? Now we barely see the next one with meagre features. Not only seems CCP to have run dry on content that can be delivered, but they're caught neck deep in the problems of previous patches. Next, if we look at devblogs... there is nothing on the horizon. What will happen after fozzysov is deployed completely? Where are Eve's goals? I agree totally.
It does really appear to me that the quality and vision of the changes has been sharply curtailed.
I've heard Seagull speak about how much they have achieved, but I'm afraid that positive spin is somewhat empty when I consider the amount of things that have been destroyed and the amount of changes that have been botched.
I prefer a small amount of quality work delivered in a reasonable timescale and followed up quickly to deal with any issues, not this rapid fire of mixed quality changes hammered in to a suffering sandbox with inadequate follow up to clean up the inevitable mess.
There have totally been positives in the last year, but that is not the overwhelming memory of what has been for me the darkest time of my EVE playing career. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
140
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:24:02 -
[1494] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:It's just like Incarna, the similarity is striking. Which is why I hope history will repeat itself in a way that CCP "gets it" again. After the Incarna fiasco CCP got the gist again and player numbers have been rising again. I just hope we're not going to wait another 4 to 5 months for this to happen.
Bad Bobby wrote:I've heard Seagull speak about how much they have achieved, but I'm afraid that positive spin is somewhat empty when I consider the amount of things that have been destroyed and the amount of changes that have been botched.
I prefer a small amount of quality work delivered in a reasonable timescale and followed up quickly to deal with any issues, not this rapid fire of mixed quality changes hammered in to a suffering sandbox with inadequate follow up to clean up the inevitable mess. Oh yes. I don't know, maybe I was living under a rock, but how many people have said "Gee CCP... your expansions come WAY too slow. Two expansions a year is pitiful." Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I never heard anyone complain about the old expansion schedule. I heard the opposite in fact. Lots of praise for continuous, no-extra-payment expansions. But again, I might be wrong, someone please correct me if I am.
Another question is, how much of those achievements are really ... achievements. It is like... "Carnyx has been successfully deployed." Well... deployed, yes. Successfully? I beg to differ. And yet another question is, how much of those achievements have been made on the expense of something else. If not on expense of the playerbase. |
Tyr Dolorem
Snuff Box Snuffed Out
132
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 17:33:55 -
[1495] - Quote
I for one am disappointed that http://puu.sh/ijKqU/2719430789.jpg these structures do not have unique icons to express their individuality. |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
148
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 18:01:24 -
[1496] - Quote
TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx.
And looking at the Dotlan statistics, if we compare statistics for the first 10 days of June and first 10 days of May, there are:
15k less highsec kills 12k less lowsec kills 16k less nullsec kills
4M less highsec jumps 700k less lowsec jumps 1,5M less nullsec jumps
All these statistics amount to roughly 15% loss of active players, varying slightly by region. So 10% of players don't login anymore and additional 5% went from playing to ship spinning... Just some food for thought. My personal guess, somebody's getting fired because of this mess.
I hope nobody gets fired. As has been said, they tend to blame someone who had no say. What CCP's been known to do in regards to 'holding someone responsible for mistakes' is about the same as executing a private for what a general decided to do. On the counter side, if a loss of the job is the response to EVERY mistake, then you end up with a culture where nobody takes responsibility and change is always a life-threatening event. Not good for a company that depends on creativity for its existence.
These numbers are pretty good. It's nice to have an apples-to-apples comparison. |
MaverickScot
Unidentified Flying Saucer
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 18:28:33 -
[1497] - Quote
I have given it time and I still dislike the icons. I would like it to be reverted or switchable with the new icons.
Sorry,
|
Valterra Craven
564
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 18:34:41 -
[1498] - Quote
I was looking over corp chat last night and someone brought up a point I thought was worth repeating.
Why are art people designing something as utilitarian as icons in the first place? Wouldn't that job be better left up to someone like an engineer? |
Dersen Lowery
Drinking in Station
1627
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 18:46:50 -
[1499] - Quote
Please realize that the scaling issue is not minor. Design for 90% and test it to make sure it scales up. Even if you have to have the icons rendered in different sizes, that's cheap and it works.
Otherwise, I liked the new icons and the way of distinguishing hostile NPC ships, but v0v.
Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.
I voted in CSM X!
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
339
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 20:26:06 -
[1500] - Quote
What do we want? ROLLBACK.
When do we want it? NOW.
Say NO to crucial game elements being iterated on the live server.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
141
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 20:51:29 -
[1501] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:I hope nobody gets fired. As has been said, they tend to blame someone who had no say. I hope nobody gets fired either. But I'd like to know where you take evidence for your blaming. Apparently CCP Zulu was long and hard involved in the making of Incarna, at the time being senior producer. After the apology by "the head" CCP Hellmar, it took two months until CCP Zulu stepped down from his role. The nature of these events is not obviously linked, so everybody can draw their own conclusions about these events.
Valterra Craven wrote:Why are art people designing something as utilitarian as icons in the first place? Wouldn't that job be better left up to someone like an engineer? This is hilarious. By this logic, an Architect is unfitting to design a building. A brick layer should design buildings. Seriously now? Apparently those people who discussed in whatever corp chat you were in have no idea how the schooling for a Major / Master in "User interface engineering" or "Human computer interaction" is being schooled. They are still designers, and often their work is art in itself. Not because it is pretty, but because it works so well.
"A good UI is so intuitive and fitting, it becomes virtually invisible. You don't even think of it as interface but as a natural extension of you."
Of course, there are bad design choices too. That is out of the question, and currently happening. Despite the hard work the UI designers certainly did, their effort did not work out. This defines an artist, this is the one big barrier. If it is poop, you need to be able to throw it away. You need to be able to let go and move on. But the generalization in the corp chat you were in is breathtakingly insulting. |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
36
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:09:26 -
[1502] - Quote
The tracking camera changes in Carnyx 1.4 seem to have made things much worse as well. If you zoom out (enough to see the whole tactical overlay disk) and then activate the tracking camera, it flips around and takes a while to decide how to present the camera movement.
Anyone else able to verify that? |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:21:25 -
[1503] - Quote
Like the new icons! When I first started reading the forums I thought...'What are these new Icons they are talking about? It's going to ruin the game'! Well, I they convey more information, and I have gotten used to them now, they are far superior to the old. Now when I look at my OH I can deduce what ships are around me very easily. I don't know how the 90% scaling effects them, maybe that is a real problem. For me though, instead of complaining, I just adapted. Now I don't even want the old ones back...I got used to the new. Everything is otherwise grand. Love the ships!...the musics a bit tepid, but eh, next time...STILL, haven't been into an unknown WH yet.
I did post about corp logo's though. If you could fix the icons, maybe next you could give us a visually appealing corp logo system. It shouldn't be as daunting as me asking for WIS...station walking will be technology for future generations of the New Eden citizen. STILL, haven't been into an unknown WH yet.
+1
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Terminus Antollare
Federal Logistics Initiative Conglomerate United Interests
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:32:58 -
[1504] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:The tracking camera changes in Carnyx 1.4 seem to have made things much worse as well. If you zoom out (enough to see the whole tactical overlay disk) and then activate the tracking camera, it flips around and takes a while to decide how to present the camera movement.
Anyone else able to verify that?
Yes. It seems to be worse when selecting items that aren't already targeted. The distance from the ship doesn't seem to make any difference |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
186
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:39:20 -
[1505] - Quote
The thing that confuses me the most with these types of "structures" is that they are usually piled on top of each other to form a larger structure, thereby massively increasing load to show all those redundant and hidden polys. Why not just make a more generic larger structure to take their place?
And why the heck do you have walls and fences in space?
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
70
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:40:31 -
[1506] - Quote
Terminus Antollare wrote:Louanne Barros wrote:The tracking camera changes in Carnyx 1.4 seem to have made things much worse as well. If you zoom out (enough to see the whole tactical overlay disk) and then activate the tracking camera, it flips around and takes a while to decide how to present the camera movement.
Anyone else able to verify that? Yes. It seems to be worse when selecting items that aren't already targeted. The distance from the ship doesn't seem to make any difference
Noticed this last night. If you cycle the tracking camera off /on it appears to correct it self, but the camera seems to heavily wander
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
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Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:43:04 -
[1507] - Quote
TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx. Carnyx was deployed just as many US universities were reaching the end of the spring quarter, so that presumably at least some of that 10% are putting exam preparation above gaming for the time being.
"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and donGÇÖt belong in Eve Online.
|
Alundil
Isogen 5
973
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:43:09 -
[1508] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:The tracking camera changes in Carnyx 1.4 seem to have made things much worse as well. If you zoom out (enough to see the whole tactical overlay disk) and then activate the tracking camera, it flips around and takes a while to decide how to present the camera movement.
Anyone else able to verify that? I can verify - I posted about a tracking camera issue in the Issues Thread. I experience it when ever I select something on the overvview for the first time after loading grid (either after jumping into a system or coming out of warp).
Very annoying.
I'm right behind you
|
Alundil
Isogen 5
973
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:44:08 -
[1509] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote:TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx.
And looking at the Dotlan statistics, if we compare statistics for the first 10 days of June and first 10 days of May, there are:
15k less highsec kills 12k less lowsec kills 16k less nullsec kills
4M less highsec jumps 700k less lowsec jumps 1,5M less nullsec jumps
All these statistics amount to roughly 15% loss of active players, varying slightly by region. So 10% of players don't login anymore and additional 5% went from playing to ship spinning... Just some food for thought. My personal guess, somebody's getting fired because of this mess. Carnyx was deployed just as many US universities were reaching the end of the spring quarter, so that presumably at least some of that 10% are putting exam preparation above gaming for the time being. Basically ^^
Something something correlation doesn't equal......
I'm right behind you
|
Alundil
Isogen 5
973
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:46:31 -
[1510] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:The thing that confuses me the most with these types of "structures" is that they are usually piled on top of each other to form a larger structure, thereby massively increasing load to show all those redundant and hidden polys. Why not just make a more generic larger structure to take their place? And why the heck do you have walls and fences in space? Space Cattle
I'm right behind you
|
|
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.10 21:59:10 -
[1511] - Quote
Also, the icon sort order is still incorrect on the overview. It puts things in order like: Celestial, Battlecruiser, Battleship, Cruiser |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
142
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 01:23:27 -
[1512] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:Why not just make a more generic larger structure to take their place? And why the heck do you have walls and fences in space? Probably so they can just "assemble" whatever structure they want with smaller parts. Doesn't mean that is a good way to do it though.
Morihei Akachi wrote:Carnyx was deployed just as many US universities were reaching the end of the spring quarter, so that presumably at least some of that 10% are putting exam preparation above gaming for the time being. If you look at statistics from previous years at the same time frame, this is not exactly a "forgiving" reason. Especially when some years actually had an increase in player activity during the same time window we're talking about.
Another thing that keeps being forgotten is the continuous issues with the launcher, especially since Download on Demand was patched. For some people, every new major patch is a huge gamble. Eventually, people are getting tired of trying again and again, eventually not even logging in any more. |
Torxx Maxx
Almost Human.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 02:48:43 -
[1513] - Quote
Just make the crappy icons go away or have them an option like the star map so I can play my damn game again.
I hate to say this as I love(ed) Eve so much but the unusable icons is a deal breaker for me, played since 2010 and if the icons are not rolled back or become an option I will have no choice but stop playing the game I love, I tried them on sisi before they hit TQ, they sucked then and suck even more on TQ.
Wave by-by to my three accounts CCP as I have a bad feeling this will be shoved down our throats with a "use it like it or not" attitude, it was a fun ride for me but sadly it's probably over now.
My network of spies closely monitors you at all times. GET YOUR FINGER OUT OF YOUR NOSE!
|
Matrim Boirelle
Dead Star Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 03:17:19 -
[1514] - Quote
Please rollback the overview icons. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
239
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 06:06:59 -
[1515] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
How about simply removing the outline from NPC ships altogether and leaving the filled area? That would make them significantly less pronounced than player ships while retaining the same icon scheme. |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
309
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 06:12:03 -
[1516] - Quote
[] |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
772
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 07:32:38 -
[1517] - Quote
Is this better?
Also, would it be possible for CCP to retool the overview so that it uses vector graphics for the icons rather than rasterized ones? That would solve all scaling issues I would think? |
Strykr X
X-COM Navy Gentlemen's.Parlor
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 08:17:52 -
[1518] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:The tracking camera changes in Carnyx 1.4 seem to have made things much worse as well. If you zoom out (enough to see the whole tactical overlay disk) and then activate the tracking camera, it flips around and takes a while to decide how to present the camera movement.
Anyone else able to verify that? Yes! I thought it was just something I did, but the camera seems to be going psychotic constantly. |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
411
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 08:42:59 -
[1519] - Quote
Subscription cancelled until we get the possibility to choose between the old icons and the new ones. Or maybe forever if i find a better online space game.
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
135
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 10:44:11 -
[1520] - Quote
I will reposting again and again
Quote:1. First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Jesus
Are you deaf or blind or again you are doing what you want?! I will try with simple English words
1. PVP overview icons - simple SQUARE as before for ANY SHIPS CLASS!!! 2. NPC overview icons - BIG cross for BS, med cross for BC, small cross for frigates as before!!!
3. IF SOMEONE wants to use new icons make an option to change it if player wish!! |
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31705
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 11:04:51 -
[1521] - Quote
Hey so the worn paint thing, is that from playing too much Warhammer ya think? Just in case it is, I want to say maybe rethink that, because that look is good for things like body armor and weapons, but space ships are more like cars. Those should look shiny and pretty.
The Golem received the worn look treatment as if it was Minmatar.
I honestly, legitimately feel less affection for the hull because it looks so beaten and battered. Related to that, destroying a Caldari ship that looks old just isn't as satisfying.
xoxo
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Fatoria Hemah
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 11:47:43 -
[1522] - Quote
Old Icon System -> Never saw anyone complaining New Icon System -> Complaints over complaints (even from color-blind people as they cant disdinguish blue from red now <- wtf CCP)
Seriously, isn't there something better for those Dev-Hours to do then fix an unbroken, customer-happy-with system?
PLEASE at least let us choose old/new icons |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 11:59:30 -
[1523] - Quote
New patch today raised my hopes for an option to choose icons
Hopes dashed nothing another day of confusion |
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 12:20:36 -
[1524] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
How about simply removing the outline from NPC ships altogether and leaving the filled area? That would make them significantly less pronounced than player ships while retaining the same icon scheme.
Ya thats the points shapes there far to many shapes as it is - why not make it simple ? oh wait we had a simple design thats worked for 10 years + now we have an unworkable overview thats everyone hates |
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 12:30:35 -
[1525] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Hey so the worn paint thing, is that from playing too much Warhammer ya think? Just in case it is, I want to say maybe rethink that, because that look is good for things like body armor and weapons, but space ships are more like cars. Those should look shiny and pretty.
The Golem received the worn look treatment as if it was Minmatar.
I honestly, legitimately feel less affection for the hull because it looks so beaten and battered. Related to that, destroying a Caldari ship that looks old just isn't as satisfying.
xoxo
Hello,
You are right . Basic skin Golem and also new skin Golem Kaalakiota are very ugly. There is too much dust and wear and scratches on the ship. In addition, the level of detail is quite low enough. That lack of definition.
I was advised to reduce in the game configuration level "Shader Quality" and it does not give anything. The ship is still as ugly and dirty.
CCP: For your information, we want for the Golem and his skin the same level of detail and quality that the Cerberus for basic skin and Rook for Kaalakiota skin .
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
145
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 12:45:26 -
[1526] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Hey so the worn paint thing, is that from playing too much Warhammer ya think? Just in case it is, I want to say maybe rethink that, because that look is good for things like body armor and weapons, but space ships are more like cars. Those should look shiny and pretty. I never even got how that dirt thing really should work. My Amarr ships do not have a single speck of dirt on them, and I fly them constantly ever since patch deployment. So we're not gathering any dirt but the dirt is a preset depending on ship type? So silly.
CCP, we have Janitors that keep our ships clean an there is maintenance crew in stations. The only think that COULD be acceptable is wear and tear from damage, but then again we're repairing armor damage simply with our armor repairers. And shield tanked ships which never receive a single scratch on the paint should never get "combat scars" ever. Sure, that damage can be displayed until repaired. Or keeping that scratch of hull damage while having the armor fully repaired, and this is displayed as some defect. Sure. Why not. But... wouldn't it be much more useful to fulfil the original promise of making T2 ship hulls more distinct? Doesn't that fall into the line of ship designers too?
And even if we disregard all that... aren't ship skins enough? |
Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 12:49:33 -
[1527] - Quote
Shai'd Hulud wrote: .... You are right . Basic skin Golem and also new skin Golem Kaalakiota are very ugly. There is too much dust and wear and scratches on the ship. In addition, the level of detail is quite low enough. That lack of definition. .... CCP: For your information, we want for the Golem and his skin the same level of detail and quality that the Cerberus for basic skin and Rook for Kaalakiota skin .
+1 For your comment.
You are right to say that the 2 new skins for the Golem is not a success
"Flying trash look" should not be on the ship basic skin but rather on skin that the player could buy. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
89
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 13:10:58 -
[1528] - Quote
Here I am again, asking as a paying customer for the same thing over and over. Old or classic icon choice put into the game client. Last night gave it my all to 'get used to them' and the headache was agonizing. I can't 'get used' to this specific type of physical pain. I certainly will not recommend Eve Online to friends when it is in this awful condition, they're waiting until a few things once again pass the sniff and squint test.
So pitiful, making it over the first year mark and facing the possibility of no longer playing when that's not by personal choice. Was that the idea, run the fresh frozen meat out of the 'bitter vets' personal use sandbox?
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
436
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 13:41:09 -
[1529] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Is this better? Edited Overview IconsAlso, would it be possible for CCP to retool the overview so that it uses vector graphics for the icons rather than rasterized ones? That would solve all scaling issues I would think?
Still too many icons. Rookie ships and mining frigs dont need their own icon as they are all frigs. There is also no need for individual capital ship icons as capital ships are so big as to be generally visible just by looking at the screen. If you cant tell a titan from a dread by looking at it well then the icon is not going to help.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
436
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 13:44:55 -
[1530] - Quote
Shai'd Hulud wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Hey so the worn paint thing, is that from playing too much Warhammer ya think? Just in case it is, I want to say maybe rethink that, because that look is good for things like body armor and weapons, but space ships are more like cars. Those should look shiny and pretty.
The Golem received the worn look treatment as if it was Minmatar.
I honestly, legitimately feel less affection for the hull because it looks so beaten and battered. Related to that, destroying a Caldari ship that looks old just isn't as satisfying.
xoxo Hello, You are right . Basic skin Golem and also new skin Golem Kaalakiota are very ugly. There is too much dust and wear and scratches on the ship. In addition, the level of detail is quite low enough. That lack of definition. I was advised to reduce in the game configuration level "Shader Quality" and it does not give anything. The ship is still as ugly and dirty. CCP: For your information, we want for the Golem and his skin the same level of detail and quality that the Cerberus for basic skin and Rook for Kaalakiota skin .
Got to first make the ships ugly so you will buy the skins to make them "purty."
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
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Kovares Arnolds
State Protectorate Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 13:49:48 -
[1531] - Quote
Hello.
I wanted to give my feedback after playing for some time.
I quite like the new icons. Great addition for PvE, where the difference for frigates vs destroyers and cruisers vs battecruisers is quite important. Especially for factions like Sansha, because they have the same ship model for those clases.
In both PvE and PvP you can identify any ship, and I like it very much. With lots of ships around in PvP, it was hard to find destroyers you needed to target and so on.
Maybe the cruiser and BC icons could be little bit more thicker, to make them stand out little bit more.
To other icons than ship icons, stargate icons stand out more than in the past (positive), the same for stations.
I also appreciate the content / story additions of Driftes and Sleepers, atmospheric and gives you exploration opportunities. I tried new scanning in new map and it is better than I thought. I did not feel the urge to scan in the old map, it is nicely usable. What could be improved in the new map are the information in the header and choices you made last time (the information you check often are left there for you to choose quickly). The list of options is not big enough, so you have to scroll, and the frequent choices make the selectable new information space even smaller.
New Caracal looks great, the graphic improvements are also welcome.
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Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
772
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 14:07:02 -
[1532] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: The Golem received the worn look treatment as if it was Minmatar.
Hah. Yeah, they've gone in and worn the edges of every single panel. That doesn't make sense. Wear would occur on the edges of the ship primarily, with maybe a few scrapes and scuffs on the interior. But right now it looks like the paint is chipping off of every single edge of every single little panel. A tad overboard. And also messy looking. It reminds me of when people first start trying to learn to draw and they shade everything the same, dark to light from each and every edge with no regard for any sort of main light source. "Pillow shading". Result is the same, a busy jumble. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
786
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 14:20:52 -
[1533] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Was that the idea, run the fresh frozen meat out of the 'bitter vets' personal use sandbox?
>Jeven
if it was, it failed. Ive been here 6 years but am on the way out because of this. |
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 14:37:59 -
[1534] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: ....
Got to first make the ships ugly so you will buy the skins to make them "purty."
Wear, dust, scratches must be the result of actions made by the player and not a skin! When a player buys a ship, it should be look new!
So, for the Golem and his new skins we need the same level of detail and quality that the Cerberus for basic skin and Rook for Kaalakiota skin . |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
773
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 15:06:23 -
[1535] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Unezka Turigahl wrote:Is this better? Edited Overview IconsAlso, would it be possible for CCP to retool the overview so that it uses vector graphics for the icons rather than rasterized ones? That would solve all scaling issues I would think? Still too many icons. Rookie ships and mining frigs dont need their own icon as they are all frigs. There is also no need for individual capital ship icons as capital ships are so big as to be generally visible just by looking at the screen. If you cant tell a titan from a dread by looking at it well then the icon is not going to help.
I'd be inclined to agree. I can see why having separate icons for the different types of capitals would be helpful though. In a big capital fight if you want to go after titans first then you could quickly sort them in the overview. But this could also be accomplished if we could specify secondary sorting parameters. Sort by icons primary, sort by type secondary... to lump titans together within the capital icon group. Though I don't really know what capital fights are like to be honest, or massive fleet fights in general.
But anyway, the main point of the edit was to make the icons easier to differentiate from one another. Make battleships pop out among the cruisers and battlecruisers. And also to make player ships pop out more from other junk on the overview. It seems like maybe CCP is in love with ISIS and is making ship icons for that first, then forcing them over to the overview. But what works for the overview is most important, and should dictate everything else. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
853
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 15:18:12 -
[1536] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:I'd be inclined to agree. I can see why having separate icons for the different types of capitals would be helpful though. In a big capital fight if you want to go after titans first then you could quickly sort them in the overview. But this could also be accomplished if we could specify secondary sorting parameters. Sort by icons primary, sort by type secondary... to lump titans together within the capital icon group. Though I don't really know what capital fights are like to be honest, or massive fleet fights in general. We have supercap only and cap only overview tabs for this. Unlike big fleet fights where, generally speaking, we're all trying to shoot the same thing, in supercap fights we may each be asked to ECM burst or DD different targets (or at least not all shooting our DD load on the same dude). |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
146
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 15:18:36 -
[1537] - Quote
The only difference between NPC and player ship is colour, which is again a problem. Either NPCs or player ships need to be "hollowed out". The problem with big icons that have a complete fill inside them is "pixel pollution" which is not helping at a glance to differentiate well enough from other icons. The previous attempt for battlecruisers and cruisers was not so bad, removing one extra horizontal line would be beneficial to avoid making it look like a battleship scaled down. Virtually anything is better than monopoly houses. |
Lahnius
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 16:34:29 -
[1538] - Quote
... several days in and i still will not get used to these s**t icons ... theyre a serious eyestrain, theyre farkin ugly as sin, they blend all together after only a few minutes of gameplay ...
... i ask myself now; "why in the F**K am i still playing this damn game?"
... |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
68
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 17:09:07 -
[1539] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:The tracking camera changes in Carnyx 1.4 seem to have made things much worse as well. If you zoom out (enough to see the whole tactical overlay disk) and then activate the tracking camera, it flips around and takes a while to decide how to present the camera movement.
Anyone else able to verify that? i can verify because im having the same issues and have noway to fix it just another reason to let the game go its gettin worse day by day ...wake me up when things r goin as intented again ill be in my cryo chambers regards Lara
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Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 17:20:49 -
[1540] - Quote
Anyone else unable to patch this evening??
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Olleybear
Armed And Angry
217
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 17:48:44 -
[1541] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote: Another thing that keeps being forgotten is the continuous issues with the launcher, especially since Download on Demand was patched. For some people, every new major patch is a huge gamble. Eventually, people are getting tired of trying again and again, eventually not even logging in any more.
Agreeing with you here about the launcher and Download on Demand.
If you sneeze during a update / cache check, your not getting on for a good 1/2 hour. During the update / cache check there have been times when the activity light on the modem stops and the launcher looks like its crashed because it hasnt updated itself while the play button is still greyed out. We players then have a choice. Do we take a chance and close the launcher, knowing that we might have to go through another 30 minutes or more of whatever it is the launcher is doing, or do we hope the launcher is just buggy ( just buggy??!?!? ) and it is instead really ready to let us play but hasnt updated itself to tell us by ungreying the play button?
Download on Demand.... yea. New guy at work installs Eve for the first time. Comes back to work and tells me all he is seeing is a black screen with a light in the background, the activity light on his modem shows activity, but he cant do anything. I've no idea what is going on until I install Eve on a PC I am working on about a week later to test out the power supply I had just installed. Same thing happened with the black screen and a light in the background. Joy! Eve was still loading the station environment and after 1/2 hour of downloading with no change to the screen I gave up.
In the rush to get someone into the game as fast as possible, neglecting to have the station environment preloaded or even telling the person just what is going on with an estimated time to completion risked that guy at work quitting before he even got started. If I hadnt told him to go to bed and let the download continue while he slept, he would have never subscribed to the game and quit on day one of his 14 day trial.
I'm sure this is costing us players to shoot in the face and customers for ccp.
When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life.
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 18:45:03 -
[1542] - Quote
The launcher was teasing me a bit too, I have to wait maybe 5 minutes sometimes, or I will restart my computer and it works then. Not all the time, but often enough. Glad to know wasn't only me that was having a problem.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
150
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 20:12:44 -
[1543] - Quote
TuCZnak wrote:Looking at the data from eve-offline, it seems like EVE has lost 10% of active players based on login count since the deployment of Carnyx.
And looking at the Dotlan statistics, if we compare statistics for the first 10 days of June and first 10 days of May, there are:
15k less highsec kills 12k less lowsec kills 16k less nullsec kills
4M less highsec jumps 700k less lowsec jumps 1,5M less nullsec jumps
All these statistics amount to roughly 15% loss of active players, varying slightly by region. So 10% of players don't login anymore and additional 5% went from playing to ship spinning... Just some food for thought. My personal guess, somebody's getting fired because of this mess.
I was looking at the eve-offline site, that's some AWESOME work by Chribba. I'll have to look at Dotlan later. It'd be interesting to see what things look like in 10 days. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
147
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 20:13:47 -
[1544] - Quote
I just found something hilarious, believing they fixed all inconsistencies in the new icons. I was laughing hysterical, and short, in a disbelieving manner: What do you mean, that is a drone icon? |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
172
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 21:23:37 -
[1545] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons. [/list] Again i ask...why wasn't the feedback from the month of SiSi "testing" taken seriously? Pretty much everything stated here was stated there....just in a much calmer and constructive manor. You guys knew about nearly all of this ahead of time, and still chose to ignore all of it in favor of your agenda. Why was all that very valuable feedback flat out ignored while you still had the time to 'not-deploy' it...
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
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Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
161
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 21:59:05 -
[1546] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I just found something hilarious, believing they fixed all inconsistencies in the new icons. I was laughing hysterical, and short, in a disbelieving manner: What do you mean, that is a drone icon? please tell me this is a joke... |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
148
|
Posted - 2015.06.11 22:12:28 -
[1547] - Quote
Eraza wrote:please tell me this is a joke... But then I would be lying to you, and that is bad! *giggles*
This happens in the Military Career mission named "Cash flow for capsuleers ( 3 of 10 )" |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 00:54:06 -
[1548] - Quote
Lantyss wrote:Well .... I read the post by CCP Surge several times and then ran the text through my version of the Universal Translator (with the BS filter activated) and was not surprised for the result to be "No reversion to old icons - CCP to make attempt to deceive players into thinking their comments are being considered seriously. Continue to stall and ignore the unacceptability of new icons. Carry on!"
I've seen stuff like this before - in companies that no longer exist...
Accurate.
I hear John Smedley is hiring....
KK
|
Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 00:58:31 -
[1549] - Quote
I found a fix. I removed all of the icons from overview.
Recruitment is open for Renegade Armada PvP / Merc corp.
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TuCZnak
My Private Tax Shelter
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 04:39:58 -
[1550] - Quote
So, I suppose the CSM meeting was either scrapped or is happening today, in which case the soonest we're gonna get something new out of CCP is Monday. Oh well, they're gonna say new icons are staying anyway... |
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Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
71
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 04:46:34 -
[1551] - Quote
The Camera glitch is starting to really make narrow d-scanning a pain, not to mention somewhat disorienting and nauseating.
Bug report filed EBR-39654
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
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Jessica Serrato
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 05:31:51 -
[1552] - Quote
Think of the new icons, the same as the new beta map.....both are OVERLY Complex and not very useful. The map luckily can be switch back to the old style or it would make exploration just awful....can we please have something to swap back to the old icons as well....they are an eye sore for me |
Quadima
Steam Powered Spaceships
142
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 07:34:19 -
[1553] - Quote
Ever since I saw the dev blog I wondered why do they all have to be....
TRIANGLES
(even worse, all pointing upwards)
--- How about using that wonderful shape recognition which CCP belives that everyone loves (riiiight) and make themes for each ship class:
- frigate / destroyer => triangle [ filled ]
- cruiser / battecruiser => rhombus / square (most common ships) [ filled ]
- battleship - pentagon [ filled ]
- dread - five pointed star (related to pentagon, since the purpose is similar) [ filled ]
- carrier / supercarrier / titan - different variations of a "shield" shape ( like police badges ) - they are mostly "support" ships all of them
- industrial / hauler - circle ( outline )
- mining vessel - hammer /pickaxe shape ( filled )
- drone - little cross
- all sorts of containers - box with an X through it [ outline ]
- gate - spiral ( the idea of a vortex )
- starbase structures - Who gives a f*** ? (they are probably fine the way they are now)
==== Color themes:
- NPC enemy - RED - NPC friendly - GREEN - PLAYER - WHITE
Just a simple idea... but compared to what is now, still better. The lack of imagination of CCP designers in the latest months is mind-boggling... ! |
TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 07:52:33 -
[1554] - Quote
just let ccp to turn the time back,i dont need new icons,i need new ships!Do what the people wants,dont just do smth new we dont need! |
Blue Harrier
189
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 08:10:37 -
[1555] - Quote
I still cannot get used to the new icons at all, in the overview many of them are far too small and easily missed or confused with other icons, (the Warp Gate is the exception, one of the best icons in my view).
In space I still cannot see the red icons because most of the time diagonal (as in triangle or cross) single pixel lines do not show up even on a 27GÇ¥ 1080P screen and only the horizontal lines show clearly. This applies in some instances even for the white lines which often show only the two small horizontal GÇÿbitsGÇÖ of the wreck icons (most notable at 90% scale).
Also why are the Police etc. Icons near stargates so bright when NPC ships are so dim?
If the red icons were as bright as the white Police icons it might be possible for me to see them, but as we donGÇÖt have a proper GÇÿcolour blindGÇÖ option I donGÇÖt hold out much hope .
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
143
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 08:28:15 -
[1556] - Quote
I will reposting again and again
Quote:1. First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Jesus f..ck,
Are you deaf or blind or again you are doing what you want?! I will try with simple English words
1. PVP overview icons - simple SQUARE as before for ANY SHIPS CLASS!!! 2. NPC overview icons - BIG cross for BS, med cross for BC, small cross for frigates as before!!!
3. IF SOMEONE wants to use new icons make an option to change it if player wish!! |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 09:00:22 -
[1557] - Quote
Comments in bold+underline
Quadima wrote:- cruiser / battecruiser => rhombus / square (most common ships) [ filled ] - ...except Rhombus is the association to cargo containers, and square is a station. A station is pretty common too, you know?
- battleship - pentagon [ filled ] - ...given the issues with scaling and the clarity thereof, I imagine this to look very awkward, and if not big enough, it will look more like a somethingsomething circular thing.
- dread - five pointed star (related to pentagon, since the purpose is similar) [ filled ] - ...5 pointed stars on a size of 12x12 for 100% or 10x10 for 90% is nigh impossible when you want to make it remotely distinguishable from a pentagon and still look like a ship.
- carrier / supercarrier / titan - different variations of a "shield" shape ( like police badges ) - they are mostly "support" ships all of them - ... While that is technically true, a shield icon is almost a square with a rounded, slightly pointed bottom if you take a kite shield, which makes it another case of "pixel pollution."
- industrial / hauler - circle ( outline ) - ... except we use circles for celestials. Especially a planet is a circle with an outline. You're a funny person.
- mining vessel - hammer /pickaxe shape ( filled ) - ... are you kidding me? I bet you want that hammer or pickaxe even tilted to make a nice disti-... no.
- drone - little cross - ... making drones look like old NPCs and not like they were previously... little X ?
- all sorts of containers - box with an X through it [ outline ] - ... box with an X is pretty much the same we have now, which is a box with a dash. How is that an improvement? It is not. back to rhombus we should go anyway.
- gate - spiral ( the idea of a vortex ) - ... to make it look more like a WORMHOLE than a stargate? No.
- starbase structures - Who gives a f*** ? (they are probably fine the way they are now) - ... this would be the point I would be most likely to agree on, if your remaining post was not lacking any and all thought.
==== Color themes:
- NPC enemy - RED - NPC friendly - GREEN - PLAYER - WHITE
The lack of imagination of CCP designers in the latest months is mind-boggling... !
Colour themes... really?Horray, let's ignore red-green colour blindness everyone! That is what a light blue would be for, you know?
The lack of imagination, foresight and imagination you put into your feedback is mind-boggling. |
Sol epoch
HELVEGEN
186
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 09:53:01 -
[1558] - Quote
Panterata wrote:I will reposting again and again Quote:1. First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players. Jesus f..ck, Are you deaf or blind or again you are doing what you want?! I will try with simple English words1. PVP overview icons - simple SQUARE as before for ANY SHIPS CLASS!!!2. NPC overview icons - BIG cross for BS, med cross for BC, small cross for frigates as before!!!3. IF SOMEONE wants to use new icons make an option to change it if player wish!!
I endorse this and also can we have some definitive feedback from CCP or are you all being quiet as the fingers are being pointed in CCP HQ? People want the option to use either the old icon set or the new one with the majority asking for the old one back. Come on CCP at least show you are listening and give us some feedback.
|
Mirija
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 10:25:37 -
[1559] - Quote
lots of days are gone ... these icons are still a pain in the @$$ ...
loggin in .. checking icon status .. loggin out |
Aeon Veritas
Lobach Inc. Easily Offended
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 10:38:47 -
[1560] - Quote
Olleybear wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: Another thing that keeps being forgotten is the continuous issues with the launcher, especially since Download on Demand was patched. For some people, every new major patch is a huge gamble. Eventually, people are getting tired of trying again and again, eventually not even logging in any more.
Agreeing with you here about the launcher and Download on Demand. If you sneeze during a update / cache check, your not getting on for a good 1/2 hour. During the update / cache check there have been times when the activity light on the modem stops and the launcher looks like its crashed because it hasnt updated itself while the play button is still greyed out. We players then have a choice. Do we take a chance and close the launcher, knowing that we might have to go through another 30 minutes or more of whatever it is the launcher is doing, or do we hope the launcher is just buggy ( just buggy??!?!? ) and it is instead really ready to let us play but hasnt updated itself to tell us by ungreying the play button? Download on Demand.... yea. New guy at work installs Eve for the first time. Comes back to work and tells me all he is seeing is a black screen with a light in the background, the activity light on his modem shows activity, but he cant do anything. I've no idea what is going on until I install Eve on a PC I am working on about a week later to test out the power supply I had just installed. Same thing happened with the black screen and a light in the background. Joy! Eve was still loading the station environment and after 1/2 hour of downloading with no change to the screen I gave up. In the rush to get someone into the game as fast as possible, neglecting to have the station environment preloaded or even telling the person just what is going on with an estimated time to completion risked that guy at work quitting before he even got started. If I hadnt told him to go to bed and let the download continue while he slept, he would have never subscribed to the game and quit on day one of his 14 day trial. I'm sure this is costing us players to shoot in the face and customers for ccp. Wait, you telling me thats is not my pc which is slow? (was a serious consideration since its like 6 years old) well, thanks, I guess....
Regarding download on demand. There are games which choose a much smarter way... For Rift you have to load so much that you actually can play the game, but while you start playing there is a download in the background for the files that are just needed on demand.
Adapted to EVE i could imagine that you, as example, need to download all the standard ship skins in the first place and than you can start playing. And while you play there is a background download for the SKINs maybe queued after demand.
With that mechanic every one has all the needed files, which is imho much better then every one has just the files he needed til now...
General module tiericide thoughts
|
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Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 11:17:43 -
[1561] - Quote
Sill no changes or fixes playerbase dropped from 35k on a daylie basis to 17k come on ccp fix this crap and while ur at it fix the tracking camera issues to... make the game playable as it used to be why do u try to spoon feed this crap into or mouths????? will not extend subscription if this is the road ur taking sorry but ill waste my moneys elsewhere then |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
162
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 11:29:22 -
[1562] - Quote
Aeon Veritas wrote:Olleybear wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote: Another thing that keeps being forgotten is the continuous issues with the launcher, especially since Download on Demand was patched. For some people, every new major patch is a huge gamble. Eventually, people are getting tired of trying again and again, eventually not even logging in any more.
Agreeing with you here about the launcher and Download on Demand. If you sneeze during a update / cache check, your not getting on for a good 1/2 hour. During the update / cache check there have been times when the activity light on the modem stops and the launcher looks like its crashed because it hasnt updated itself while the play button is still greyed out. We players then have a choice. Do we take a chance and close the launcher, knowing that we might have to go through another 30 minutes or more of whatever it is the launcher is doing, or do we hope the launcher is just buggy ( just buggy??!?!? ) and it is instead really ready to let us play but hasnt updated itself to tell us by ungreying the play button? Download on Demand.... yea. New guy at work installs Eve for the first time. Comes back to work and tells me all he is seeing is a black screen with a light in the background, the activity light on his modem shows activity, but he cant do anything. I've no idea what is going on until I install Eve on a PC I am working on about a week later to test out the power supply I had just installed. Same thing happened with the black screen and a light in the background. Joy! Eve was still loading the station environment and after 1/2 hour of downloading with no change to the screen I gave up. In the rush to get someone into the game as fast as possible, neglecting to have the station environment preloaded or even telling the person just what is going on with an estimated time to completion risked that guy at work quitting before he even got started. If I hadnt told him to go to bed and let the download continue while he slept, he would have never subscribed to the game and quit on day one of his 14 day trial. I'm sure this is costing us players to shoot in the face and customers for ccp. Wait, you telling me thats is not my pc which is slow? (was a serious consideration since its like 6 years old) well, thanks, I guess.... Regarding download on demand. There are games which choose a much smarter way... For Rift you have to load so much that you actually can play the game, but while you start playing there is a download in the background for the files that are just needed on demand. Adapted to EVE i could imagine that you, as example, need to download all the standard ship skins in the first place and than you can start playing. And while you play there is a background download for the SKINs maybe queued after demand. With that mechanic every one has all the needed files, which is imho much better then every one has just the files he needed til now...
It sounds to me that CCP need to copy at least one thing from Blizzard. I tried their download on demand client recently, started playing SC2 at about 7% client downloaded and saw simplistic crappy looking low resolution textures everywhere. Then when individual items, units and buildings started popping in with much higher resolution textures, dropping the placeholder ones, it was very obvious what was the "problem" was, and I just ignored it and kept playing. worked very well that way, and I was happy to have the option of not waiting on a 15gb download before doing a thing. There was also a spinning progress... thingy.. that let you know that something was being downloaded.
It seems that CCP isn't using placeholder assets, and just lets you in with things missing? AND no overlay thing to let the player know that missing game assets in his area are being downloaded? that's going to get confusing very fast, I would NOT be happy to run into the things that guy did. Also IF it hadn't worked out, I always had the clear and obvious warning that the game was NOT fully downloaded, and If I had issues, perhaps I should let it finish before playing.
I'm not using fresh installs, but I don't see any such signs in the eve launcher or ingame, not even the area where those things would be. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 11:47:54 -
[1563] - Quote
Not copy from Blizzard, copy from Arenanet. If I remember correctly, Guild Wars 1 was the first big game with a really good download on demand system, long before Blizzard got it. It even worked without a launcher... |
Aloysius Cedric
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 12:11:22 -
[1564] - Quote
all accounts will be unsubbed right now until someone fixes the overview icons , fly safe |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
436
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 13:07:56 -
[1565] - Quote
Feels like CCP is trying the rope-a-dope. Hoping like they did with the stargate jump effect that with time, even though they put out a substandard nausea inducing product, that people will adapt and moveon. The difference of course is that with the jump screen effect, it did not effect game play, you could learn to ignore the effect without it impacting your game play at all, whereas with the icons its in your face all the time and it is game breaking because, at least for me, I cant see the difference between many of the icons because they are too small and too similar to each other. Also they are distracting as they largely look like rejects from an 80's videogame, but of course that is just a personal aesthetic opinion.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
971
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 15:13:40 -
[1566] - Quote
I would love to be able to change the icon colors. Currently NPC big red icons stand out so much, that if an actual player shows up you barely even notice.
Giving players the ability to properly customize the colors of the icons not only in the overview but how we see the icons with the camera I'm sure would help a lot.As it stand now the icons are all far to similar and can't be told apart quickly. There are more shapes than a triangle lol
My ideal scenario, let people choose the icon sets they want, the current form was pushed out too early without enough testing. When you deploy something as big as this you should also do it ion batches, not all at once.
just my 2 cents ofc :)
Gùä[GÖÑ]Gû¦3rd Party ServiceGùä[GÖÑ]Gû¦
GÖÑ Securing Peace of mind GÖÑ
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Ex Ira
MSCS Corpore
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 15:39:21 -
[1567] - Quote
Well you managed it CCP, i'm finally dropping my subscriptions /o\ Took you quite long, but you managed to **** me off enough this time. My main already dropped and i realized i can't post articles on the forums once sub runs out (funny there you are subscribed for years and once your sub runs out you are cut off any communications immediatly ...). Anyways, i can post on this toon, so not a big deal for me.
You really need to work on the way you treat your paying customers CCP.
I'm not quitting over the new Icons. - They are an annoyance and they need to be fixed / replaced, but everythings gotta start somewhere. I'm also not quitting over the SOV changes. Whilst i'm unaffected, i see how these ruin the game play in null and make it facwar 2.0. Still SOV needed changing and again, change needs to start somewhere. So i can understand that things need changing. Sometimes changes are turning stuff upside down to fix it.
But.
I'm quitting over your lack of caring for your customers. Over your ignorance towards those that pay your salary. You shove stuff down our throats whether we protest or not, feedback simply gets ignored. Yay Incarna 2.0. (It was Incarna wasn't it?)
Thus i'm now drawing a bottom line and start fresh somewhere else. I'm going to play some other games, check back every once in a while and see if you improved. I'm definitly not spending any more money on this game to support this way of treating your customers. |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 15:51:57 -
[1568] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:
We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons. [/list]
do anyone know when the csm meatings starts? and how long it takes for them to show up on http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/meeting-minutes/
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Dominous Nolen
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
72
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 16:39:17 -
[1569] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons. [/list] do anyone know when the csm meatings starts? and how long it takes for them to show up on http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/meeting-minutes/
Hard to say.. This will need to go through NDA review as to what can/cannot be released... We probably won't get a detailed overview aside from the finalized call that CCP makes.
Even then what you are referring to are the minutes of the winter and summer summits that take place. Individual meetings such as the one surge mention probably don't get officially released due to the content and the amount of discussion that needs to be reviewed under the NDA requirements.
Personally I won't expect to see anything this meeting as in the last few years it looks like "Emergency" meeting minutes haven't been released, but who knows right?
This is EVE, Not Hello Kitty: Island Adventure
===================================
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
|
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 16:46:44 -
[1570] - Quote
Dominous Nolen wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:CCP Surge wrote:
We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons. [/list] do anyone know when the csm meatings starts? and how long it takes for them to show up on http://community.eveonline.com/community/csm/meeting-minutes/ Hard to say.. This will need to go through NDA review as to what can/cannot be released... We probably won't get a detailed overview aside from the finalized call that CCP makes. Even then what you are referring to are the minutes of the winter and summer summits that take place. Individual meetings such as the one surge mention probably don't get officially released due to the content and the amount of discussion that needs to be reviewed under the NDA requirements. Personally I won't expect to see anything this meeting as in the last few years it looks like "Emergency" meeting minutes haven't been released, but who knows right?
aah, tnx for the info
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
151
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 17:23:07 -
[1571] - Quote
Ex Ira wrote:I'm quitting over your lack of caring for your customers. Over your ignorance towards those that pay your salary. You shove stuff down our throats whether we protest or not, feedback simply gets ignored. Yay Incarna 2.0. (It was Incarna wasn't it?)
Thus i'm now drawing a bottom line and start fresh somewhere else. I'm going to play some other games, check back every once in a while and see if you improved. I'm definitly not spending any more money on this game to support this way of treating your customers. You sound like someone who would return to Eve if things are being fixed and brought back into working order c: If that is the case, then I would really like to see more of you voice their act of consequence and would hope there are more of you here in general. Because those people are the ones who really return, and it is those people who make a difference in product reviews.
I for one would love to have the resolution to take such a step... but I feel too responsible for the little podlings which are left behind in the barren wasteland that is called "opportunities". |
Aurilia-Yvonne Lyonne
Origin Stories
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 17:59:41 -
[1572] - Quote
This account's annual subscription runs out at the end of this month. I have suffered from headaches since the new icons were introduced. I am certain the headaches are caused by the icon change as I can spend (and have spent) plenty of time in the station without headaches happening.
I will not renew this account. I don't play a game to get headaches.
I would like to suggest, if changes are eventually made to the icons, this info be emailed to recently lost accounts as, personally, I would be happy to resubscribe and try things out again. I have enjoyed playing EVE.
But, I will not pay in advance for an annual subscription again as a result of this event, and consider myself lucky this subscription is running out at this time.
This whole situation was created, and is ongoing, because of CCP's actions, inactions, and lack of communication.
Enough said. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
352
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 18:02:54 -
[1573] - Quote
Aurilia-Yvonne Lyonne wrote:
This whole situation was created, and is ongoing, because of CCP's actions, inactions, and lack of communication.
Enough said.
Don't forget arrogance and pride.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
37
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 20:32:30 -
[1574] - Quote
Aurilia-Yvonne Lyonne wrote:This account's annual subscription runs out at the end of this month. I have suffered from headaches since the new icons were introduced. I am certain the headaches are caused by the icon change as I can spend (and have spent) plenty of time in the station without headaches happening.
I will not renew this account. I don't play a game to get headaches.
I would like to suggest, if changes are eventually made to the icons, this info be emailed to recently lost accounts as, personally, I would be happy to resubscribe and try things out again. I have enjoyed playing EVE.
But, I will not pay in advance for an annual subscription again as a result of this event, and consider myself lucky this subscription is running out at this time.
This whole situation was created, and is ongoing, because of CCP's actions, inactions, and lack of communication.
Enough said.
agreed 100 % as I canceled 3 accts also they really need to say they woke up and email us with a week free lol just so we can see
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 21:39:14 -
[1575] - Quote
Dear Diary,
This is page 80 of our long journey full deprivation, but still we hope. Longer and darker seem the warp tunnels, but still we hope. Flying with instinct and relying on our guts, as our instruments fail to show what is known, we carry on. Jove space lies in shambles, our very ship AI Aura silent and stripped of knowledge, but we prevail. Will the world shine light upon us again, or is this our punishment for the genocide we caused among the sleepers? Is this part of the Drifter's retribution or is fate just toying with us?
I don't know, dear diary. Maybe these logs will be found among my wreck, when life support has long died, as a new generation of explorers travels to these outer rims, trying to find why so many capsuleers suddenly vanished.
I sit, and keep hoping.
... and I also hope that if we manage to get out of this, windows 10 would not be among me. For I fear my capsule won't load strawberry flavoured pod goo like it did before. That would be sad :c |
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 23:05:06 -
[1576] - Quote
Ex Ira wrote:Well you managed it CCP, i'm finally dropping my subscriptions /o\ Took you quite long, but you managed to **** me off enough this time.
I'm quitting over your lack of caring for your customers. Over your ignorance towards those that pay your salary. You shove stuff down our throats whether we protest or not, feedback simply gets ignored.
I'm definitly not spending any more money on this game to support this way of treating your customers. As one of the ones who spent countless hours testing, and I don't know how many evenings wasted posting feedback and suggestions for many of the changes that were completely ignored, as well as my brother. And I'm not just talking about the very evident lack of dev responses to their very own feedback threads, but also in that many of those features that were redesigned went the complete opposite direction of any of the feedback.
This completely sums up my feelings towards CCP... and they can't say they didn't see it coming because we told them weeks ahead of time, but they refused to listen. Then they complain because artists can't work on core game design so they have to do artsy things, but why not just re-appropriate funds to more/better core game developers?
All 3 of my accounts expire within a month... I 'might' talk myself into plexing 1 of them to last until the next patch so I can make oodles of iskies of stupid pilots that have to have the first new mods/ships. But then I'm done. I can't afford to keep forking over hundreds of bucks to CCP every year to be treated this poorly. Maybe I'll come back, that is up to CCP to decide in how they handle themselves and if they can be man enough to admit the never really did learn anything from ALL of their previous screwups they were warned where terribad but "CCP knows best" and pushed to TQ with full abandon.
P.S. And you know its getting bad when more than half the time I talk with real life Eve friends, we are talking about how terribly CCP broke something that wasn't fixed and/or refused to acknowledge the feedback/warnings about the change instead of how awesome of a time we are having playing Eve, cause they make it harder and harder to enjoy the game every single patch.
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Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
89
|
Posted - 2015.06.12 23:07:14 -
[1577] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Aurilia-Yvonne Lyonne wrote:
This whole situation was created, and is ongoing, because of CCP's actions, inactions, and lack of communication.
Enough said.
Don't forget arrogance and pride.
Truth +1 Right here, CCP. Time to suck in your stomachs and face the music you've put on repeat. Roll back the icons that are causing troubles and headache pains for some of us, or give the option to use the old ones while you be all 'creative!' and 'brainstorming!' in your company. Down to one paying account now, if this isn't handled fast with the quickness I'll let this one lapse as well. I certainly Won't be bringing new players into this fiasco, I seem to know individuals with less than stellar vision who would be in more agony than I after a couple hours of ingame time.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
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Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 00:08:24 -
[1578] - Quote
Mirija wrote:lots of days are gone ... these icons are still a pain in the @$$ ...
loggin in .. checking icon status .. loggin out
Yep. |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 01:30:20 -
[1579] - Quote
Mirija wrote:lots of days are gone ... these icons are still a pain in the @$$ ...
loggin in .. checking icon status .. loggin out
Save yourself some time and just check here.If there's no ccp post then it hasn't happened
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OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 04:31:02 -
[1580] - Quote
Sov change... no result. UI change... utter BS. This is the patch x+1 with absolutely no positive result, or even reaction in game. I just wonder, CCP. Do you guys have no bosses there, no managers, even no company owner, no one to look after what you do? So the team can keep it in fail after fail? Less and less people log in. Game becomes more pointless after every patch. Still you guys claim you win. This reminds me of Test during Fountain war lol. I have just a small question: who in the blue hell there imagines people will log in to do absolutely nothing, and also pay for that? I don't speak here about the hardcore guys. For those, theres nothign left in this world except Eve. This is how it is, and won't change. But they won't pay for enuf plex to feed the machine. Regulars will, if they find a reason to be here. Looking at numbers, they don't. Guess what: noone considered the regulars before thinking about BS changes? So pro, so amazing and awesome... I want a such job too, i'll be damn if not. Also i fail to see the Fozzie partisans roaming all over, doing amazing things, having lots of fun, and building the new Eve we all want. Come out and play gentlemen. Show us all we were wrong, and you and your Lazy God are right. |
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Strykr X
X-COM Navy Gentlemen's.Parlor
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 05:05:17 -
[1581] - Quote
Alright, so the icons are stupid as hell and extremely disappointing, but the camera issue drives me absolutely insane, each and every time it happens.
FIX THAT ****. RIGHT. NOW. |
haralampijem
Fatal and The rabbit The G0dfathers
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 05:54:39 -
[1582] - Quote
CCP return the old icons!!! |
Jattila Vrek
Green Visstick High
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 06:38:23 -
[1583] - Quote
I have some feedback on the armor plates changes (tiericide). The mass addition on the restrained plates is too high.
If I compare with shield extenders then there the restrained extender has the same sig penalty as the best faction extender. The restrained extender has only 60% of the sig penalty of the tech II. In most cruiser fits with afterburners you want to fit restrained LSEs because they are better than tech II. With plates the best faction plate also has 60% of the mass adition of the tech II, but the restrained plates have 80-90% of the mass addition. There is no point in fitting restrained plates. Only in exceptional cases where you can't fit a single tech II plate even after making some compromises, you want to use the restrained plate.
This is not very balanced. Perhaps the restrained shield extenders are too good. I've fiddled with a 100 MN Ishtar fit with restrained extenders and this has twice the tank against Bs sized weapons as a MWD fit. We're going to see a lot more shield fleets with restrained extenders and ABs. |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
163
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 11:14:44 -
[1584] - Quote
Jattila Vrek wrote:I have some feedback on the armor plates changes (tiericide). The mass addition on the restrained plates is too high.
If I compare with shield extenders then there the restrained extender has the same sig penalty as the best faction extender. The restrained extender has only 60% of the sig penalty of the tech II. In most cruiser fits with afterburners you want to fit restrained LSEs because they are better than tech II. With plates the best faction plate also has 60% of the mass adition of the tech II, but the restrained plates have 80-90% of the mass addition. There is no point in fitting restrained plates. Only in exceptional cases where you can't fit a single tech II plate even after making some compromises, you want to use the restrained plate.
This is not very balanced. Perhaps the restrained shield extenders are too good. I've fiddled with a 100 MN Ishtar fit with restrained extenders and this has twice the tank against Bs sized weapons as a MWD fit. We're going to see a lot more shield fleets with restrained extenders and ABs.
Yeah, I agree, the "restrained" plates seem totally useless now, except if for some reason you just HAVE to shave off 5 cpu, and... then you could just as well shave of 8 cpu and more power, for the same HP bonus, and use compact ones I just dont see myself EVER using the restrained plates in this balance.
I mean, seriously, will I ever need 5 cpu and 50 powergrid free, but somehow obsessively NOT want 8 cpu and 70 power freed up?(for the 1600mm's as an example) other bonuses are about the same, and I really don't think I'll see any major difference in 3.000.000 kg mass(restrained), vs 3.500.000 kg mass(compact), or the 3.750.000 kg mass(tech 2)
Also I cringe every time I see a "restrained" version of anything. My brain insists on translating restrained to mean reduced, or crippled, version of something. like it's the return of the basic modules. ick.. |
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
300
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 11:48:36 -
[1585] - Quote
Its very obvious they had a release schedule to keep and could not bring themselves to release carnyx without a new icon set. Whyprobably they need a minimum number of new features per release.
If this is how they work id say they need to forget this 6 week release cycle thing. |
OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 11:51:07 -
[1586] - Quote
Jattila Vrek wrote:I have some feedback on the armor plates changes (tiericide). The mass addition on the restrained plates is too high.
If I compare with shield extenders then there the restrained extender has the same sig penalty as the best faction extender. The restrained extender has only 60% of the sig penalty of the tech II. In most cruiser fits with afterburners you want to fit restrained LSEs because they are better than tech II. With plates the best faction plate also has 60% of the mass adition of the tech II, but the restrained plates have 80-90% of the mass addition. There is no point in fitting restrained plates. Only in exceptional cases where you can't fit a single tech II plate even after making some compromises, you want to use the restrained plate.
This is not very balanced. Perhaps the restrained shield extenders are too good. I've fiddled with a 100 MN Ishtar fit with restrained extenders and this has twice the tank against Bs sized weapons as a MWD fit. We're going to see a lot more shield fleets with restrained extenders and ABs. What means "too good" in a game in there's no invincible things? I have sooooo enuf of this way of describing functional things, and glorifying the nerf... Actually game is not even half as alive as it was 4 years ago when they started "improving" it. Gj, gj.
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
164
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 12:18:50 -
[1587] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Its very obvious they had a release schedule to keep and could not bring themselves to release carnyx without a new icon set. Whyprobably they need a minimum number of new features per release.
If this is how they work id say they need to forget this 6 week release cycle thing. Yes, I have been seeing a lot of signs pointing to this. The 6 week release cycle is clearly not working as intended, and I would strongly prefer better content, more polish, even if it takes much longer.
I for one, hope CCP returns to the 6 month release schedule, and gives us more polished, more complete, and better tested, content. quality over quantity!
And for the love of god CCP, STOP FIXING THINGS THAT ARE NOT BROKEN
I don't care at all about module updates, or the ship balance changes, or UI changes, of any kind, aside from a few items and ships that were overpowered or crap(that always happens in any game) Balance changes are simply NOT EXCITING.
And the worst case, is a patch like this, combined with the last few ones, that's seriously diminishing my enjoyment of the game. I still hate the new neocom, I miss the gui sliders(plural), the ability to have seperate colors for seperate things(**** monochrome)
These things worked perfectly with noone complaining about them, for well over 12 years now, why did they suddenly need updating?
I want to send a few dozen "IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT" signs to CCP, as a not-so-subtle hint of what I think of your last year of patches. You clearly do not have any of those. |
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 12:19:16 -
[1588] - Quote
Hi CCP,
CAN WE HAVE STATUS FOR THESE BUGS :
1- New Icons 2- Bad quality of Golem skins (basic skin and Kaalakiota skin) 3- Camera and option "Turn Tracking camra = on"
Thank's for fast answer.... lol........and good day to you! |
Tao Dolcino
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
414
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 12:56:26 -
[1589] - Quote
Eraza wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Its very obvious they had a release schedule to keep and could not bring themselves to release carnyx without a new icon set. Whyprobably they need a minimum number of new features per release.
If this is how they work id say they need to forget this 6 week release cycle thing. Yes, I have been seeing a lot of signs pointing to this. The 6 week release cycle is clearly not working as intended, and I would strongly prefer better content, more polish, even if it takes much longer. I for one, hope CCP returns to the 6 month release schedule, and gives us more polished, more complete, and better tested, content. quality over quantity! And for the love of god CCP, STOP FIXING THINGS THAT ARE NOT BROKEN I don't care at all about module updates, or the ship balance changes, or UI changes, of any kind, aside from a few items and ships that were overpowered or crap(that always happens in any game) Balance changes are simply NOT EXCITING. And the worst case, is a patch like this, combined with the last few ones, that's seriously diminishing my enjoyment of the game. I still hate the new neocom, I miss the gui sliders(plural), the ability to have seperate colors for seperate things(**** monochrome) These things worked perfectly with noone complaining about them, for well over 12 years now, why did they suddenly need updating? I want to send a few dozen "IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT" signs to CCP, as a not-so-subtle hint of what I think of your last year of patches. You clearly do not have any of those.
The list could be very long, just one more working thing people were enjoying until they "fix" it : the jukebox. Why the hell, CCP, what's in your heads ? In what removing the jukebox makes the game better ??? What's in your heads...
CCP 2015 : "Fluff is good"
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 13:38:47 -
[1590] - Quote
Tao Dolcino wrote:Eraza wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Its very obvious they had a release schedule to keep and could not bring themselves to release carnyx without a new icon set. Whyprobably they need a minimum number of new features per release.
If this is how they work id say they need to forget this 6 week release cycle thing. Yes, I have been seeing a lot of signs pointing to this. The 6 week release cycle is clearly not working as intended, and I would strongly prefer better content, more polish, even if it takes much longer. I for one, hope CCP returns to the 6 month release schedule, and gives us more polished, more complete, and better tested, content. quality over quantity! And for the love of god CCP, STOP FIXING THINGS THAT ARE NOT BROKEN I don't care at all about module updates, or the ship balance changes, or UI changes, of any kind, aside from a few items and ships that were overpowered or crap(that always happens in any game) Balance changes are simply NOT EXCITING. And the worst case, is a patch like this, combined with the last few ones, that's seriously diminishing my enjoyment of the game. I still hate the new neocom, I miss the gui sliders(plural), the ability to have seperate colors for seperate things(**** monochrome) These things worked perfectly with noone complaining about them, for well over 12 years now, why did they suddenly need updating? I want to send a few dozen "IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT" signs to CCP, as a not-so-subtle hint of what I think of your last year of patches. You clearly do not have any of those. The list could be very long, just one more working thing people were enjoying until they "fix" it : the jukebox. Why the hell, CCP, what's in your heads ? In what removing the jukebox makes the game better ??? What's in your heads...
Oh god, I REALLY miss the jukebox I'm now one of those "eve has music?" people, since I don't like all the songs, and my favorite ones do NOT play in my area(why the **** are the tracks area based?), and I cant be assed to alt-tab to an mp3 player
And to make matters worse, I found the mp3 files, they do NOT sound the same in VLC as they do ingame, so even that's not a real option.
so no more music for eve, I got fed up with hearing the same songs on repeat, and they removed my ability to control it. |
|
Jiska Ensa
Estrale Frontiers Project Wildfire
165
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 13:41:14 -
[1591] - Quote
The overview icons look horrible. Please fix, or roll back. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 13:52:39 -
[1592] - Quote
Sometimes...late at night lying awake, staring at the ceiling...I miss the Jukebox, and the good times we had.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Jack Mancetti
Rennfeuer V.e.G.A.
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 14:06:00 -
[1593] - Quote
The world is grey,grey like all the stuff what we got from CCP last time, i think they think in gray tones |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
286
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 15:20:24 -
[1594] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Its very obvious they had a release schedule to keep and could not bring themselves to release carnyx without a new icon set. Whyprobably they need a minimum number of new features per release. One of the features was DC icon change...
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 16:15:18 -
[1595] - Quote
Quality vs. quantity.
CCP has gone the route of the second, with insisting on the fast track release cycle. I now shudder to contemplate what FozzieSov is REALLY going to fly like once it's all in place... If the company can't be bothered to reliably repair something as basic as the Launcher, when a reply to a threadnaught takes a week to basically say 'eat it and shut up or go elsewhere', when feedback is given upon request then absolutely blown off because it wasn't what they wanted to hear, when change for change sake takes priority over change for the good...
I hope CCP knows I won't be going over to their VR headset game in the works. I can't even go to a 3D or Imax movie due to the vision problems, you think I'm going to drop serious cash on a computer setup for a game I won't even be able to tolerate playing??
Roll back these icons, or give the option to use the old ones.
The clock is ticking on this final full account. There are other places I can fling my entertainment dollar when it comes to MMOs that are space based.
And no, no one can has my stuffs. I'm vengeful enough to destroy trash etc. every single thing Jeven has in his hoard of Industrial possessions. My stuffs, if I won't use them I'll delete them, just to be a pain!
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
DemetRYS
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 20:43:50 -
[1596] - Quote
I see CCP still gives no ***** about what we want, this day or any others.
What a disgusting way to treat paying customers. |
Morihei Akachi
Nishida Corporation
167
|
Posted - 2015.06.13 22:28:45 -
[1597] - Quote
Eraza wrote:One last thing: I cringe every time I see a "restrained" version of anything. My brain insists on translating restrained to mean reduced, or crippled, version of something. like it's the return of the basic modules. ick.. This question of language is an issue that continues to be a sore point for me. We now have "restrained" microwarpdrives, "restrained" afterburners and "restrained" overdrives. I've argued elsewhere that this is a bad trade-off: "consistency" across all module types without exception is being bought at the price of crassly implausible names for specific items. Even if I were prepared to accept that the designation "restrained" is appropriate to technological equipment in general (which I'm not), applying it to modules that are meant to make ships go faster just seems incredibly inappropriate. It irritates.
"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and donGÇÖt belong in Eve Online.
|
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
70
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 06:07:49 -
[1598] - Quote
Still no option to use the old icons? Logging out. |
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 10:46:40 -
[1599] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:I just finished reading through the latest rounds of feedback, and we've discussed the situation internally in depth now. So here's where we're at now, and the options we're considering with the icons:
- First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
- 90% UI scaling is definitely an issue, but a tricky one to solve. We we know its an underlying rendering issue that's been around much longer and not caused by the icons themselves, but one that's been suddenly and very clearly illuminated by their release. We want to keep 90% scaling as a option, but at the same time acknowledge that it will never look as good or be as cleanly supported as the other modes. We're also looking into whether we can easily add texture filtering which will make the icons smoother and slightly more readable at 90%.
- We also hear the general usability concern that item "groups" are not as clearly differentiated as with the old set (crosses vs brackets, vs Xs) and that many new icons are too detailed to identify quickly. In the previous iteration the ISIS-based overview icons were pulled back for this very reason: they were too difficult to quickly make out at the smaller Overview size.
While we've added many new icons for separating types within a group, it has been at the cost of taking slightly longer to identify which group has appeared on grid (A player ship, NPC, or drone). It's also exacerbated by as-mentioned eyesight/accessibility problems and quick blob identification of a shape. I think this is at the root of many of your concerns, and we're now looking into what can be done to make groups of items slightly more distinctive, potentially giving people the option to use simpler group icons for brackets that's closer to the old system.
- We're meeting with the CSM later this week to discuss much of this feedback, and I'm sure many of your concerns will be represented as well. Either way the significance of this and your well reasoned responses in this thread aren't lost on us. I'll keep poking in here to keep you guys updated on any further actions coming with regards to the icons.
CCP, the week is almost over ... What is there for progress in the talks with CSM regarding the icons? You wanted to keep us up to date |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 11:16:38 -
[1600] - Quote
Eraza wrote:1) Also not a similar penelty to the restrained shields, the large restraned giving 15 sig, vs 25 for the others. A similar armor mass would be 2.250.000 for the restrained, if shield and armor had been balanced using the same formulas.(which funny enough, it was that mass for the lightest plate before this change)
2) I mean, seriously, will I ever need 5 cpu and 50 powergrid free, but somehow obsessively NOT want 8 cpu and 70 power freed up?(for the 1600mm's as an example)
3) I also note CCP, who does that armor mass penalty help? Shield tank already being by far the most popular option for PVP, Buffing the already more popular option, while nerfing the less popular one, is not helping balance out our options.
4) The 6 week release cycle is clearly not working as intended, and I would strongly prefer better content, more polish, even if it takes much longer. I for one, hope CCP returns to the 6 month release schedule, and gives us more polished, more complete, and better tested, content.
5) I still hate the new neocom, I miss the gui sliders(plural), the ability to have seperate colors for seperate things(**** monochrome) These things worked perfectly with noone complaining about them, for well over 12 years now, why did they suddenly need updating?
6) I want to send a few dozen "IF IT'S NOT BROKEN, DON'T FIX IT" signs to CCP, as a not-so-subtle hint of what I think of your last year of patches.
7) Oh god, I REALLY miss the jukebox. I'm now one of those "eve has music?" people, since I don't like all the songs, and my favorite ones do NOT play in my area(why the **** are the tracks area based?), and I cant be assed to alt-tab to an mp3 player. And to make matters worse, I found the mp3 files, they do NOT sound the same in VLC as they do ingame, so even that's not a real option. so no more music for eve, I got fed up with hearing the same songs on repeat, and they removed my ability to control it.
1) I agree with you and Jattila Vrek about the penalties not being in line which is a huge problem, especially if they were correctly placed on Sisi before. However, I question what you say in 2) and 3) ? Only because you do not see the value in having some CPU and Powergrid free, does not mean everybody thinks the same. On the contrary, I've seen a good number of people enjoying these changes for easier fitting requirements. And saying that shield tanking is the most popular option in pvp... I'd like to see where you are getting this. It is again subjective and a base of preference, situation and certainly fleet doctrine. Saying the penalties of plates and extenders are not in line, is an objective statement based on math. This is what everybody can work with and nobody can disagree with. The other two things are more subjective and thus arguable.
4) Yes, as often mentioned, and I am not getting tired to agree with this. However, I don't think returning to 6 months would be that good. I agree with the notion of CCP to have updates faster. I disagree with the intervals they set. CCP should have dropped it down to 4 months for starters. A gradual increase, and not a massive cut. It is very evident how the company cannot keep this pace :c
5) I miss the neocom buttons too, at least most of them. I do like that we have more space in the station services now, but at the cost of some icons being totally confusing. I also miss my purple and pink interface :c If anything, they should have added a contrast INVERTED scheme. Black text and icons on light backgrounds.
6) I keep hearing this phrase preached too often. There is a difference in breaking things just because, or trying to improve them because they had a long way coming. Only because something works, doesn't mean it works flawless or perfect. Usually, there is always room for improvement. The overview needed some love, but they started at the WRONG point. The Overview needs more updates and options and needs a better renderer for scaling among other things. CCP simply started at the wrong point. Increased screen size is a legitimate concern, but it was taken the wrong way and with a flawed priority. There is nothing inherently bad with trying to improve this, just the way and priority it was done with was ... less than ideal.
7) I agree that the removal of the jukebox feature was dumb. That said, I don't miss it because almost all eve music puts me to sleep or annoys me. I don't even find most of it relaxing. To my taste, there is better relaxing and ambient space music out there. And the "dungeon music" is outright horrible. At least they uploaded the tracks to soundcloud for download. Why the tracks sound different in your player is beyond me though. So again, I agree with you on principle... removing options is bad.
OldWolf69 wrote:Actually game is not even half as alive as it was 4 years ago when they started "improving" it. Gj, gj. Except 2013 was just as strong a year than those glory times you speak of, and so was the start of 2014. So that statement is wrong. "Half as alive" is very questionable either. Maybe where you play?
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:And no, no one can has my stuffs. I'm vengeful enough to destroy trash etc. every single thing Jeven has in his hoard of Industrial possessions. My stuffs, if I won't use them I'll delete them, just to be a pain! Who says you need to destroy it and who says you will never be back? Just keep your stuff as it is c: In the case CCP improves and fixes things again, you will be playing again. Your characters are never pruned, and neither is your stuff. It might take a while, but they did fix the issues with Incarna in the end. Now it is their turn to prove they still can do that.
So, CCP... what does it boil down to? Your intentions are good or at least understandable. But your approaches have an increased tendency to be flawed. |
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 11:45:22 -
[1601] - Quote
Morihei Akachi wrote: "consistency" across all module types without exception is being bought at the price of crassly implausible names for specific items. Even if I were prepared to accept that the designation "restrained" is appropriate to technological equipment in general (which I'm not), applying it to modules that are meant to make ships go faster just seems incredibly inappropriate. It irritates. This is very much an issue, yes :c And even if we accept that terminology, it would still be better to use: Type - Codename - ( Fluff name ) - Module To make it look like: 1MN Enduring ( Monopropellant ) Afterburner. Brackets because I don't believe fluff names should be extraordinary long. Not only does it waste space, it also looks just plain silly at times.
As for names... I don't understand why they try to go for a unified naming convention when they break within it. Afterburners and microwarpdrives are now separated with the 1 and 5 digit. There is no need to bring extra names, this is redundant and useless information overflow. Restrained is a bad choice, as has so often been mentioned. What is so bad to use the word "Compact" ? Compact makes sense. Compact means it requires less fitting. At least to me. Some modules even USE compact for exactly that. So why can't others?
I understand there is not much difference in association between "upgraded" and "improved". But why scrap BOTH alternatives?
"Enduring" for less capacitor use maybe sounds reasonable... but why not simply call it "efficient" then? Or "economic?" I mean, we could even start to use FLUFF NAMES as a baseline for type specific codenames. Cold-gas instead of enduring. But wait... we had that already... or did we?
Words. Just words. |
Dark Opaque Theme
State War Academy Caldari State
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 12:39:51 -
[1602] - Quote
Logged in today, squinted at the horrid icons which had undergone no change and logged back off shaking my head.
One account expires tomorrow the second one the day after that, both will not be reactivated*. That leaves me with one more account that's about to expire in 12 day's or so.
I know that probably means Jack and (that other thing) to the Dev's behind this horrible change but for me it means a lot.
As last tip for CCP, probably impossible to demand for them, but if you have changes like these planned, have them executed and approved by developers and managers that have at the least a whole year of EVE game play on their account and are still actively involved in EVE gameplay. This whole change of a fundamental aspect of the game, then asking for and ignoring the feedback basically saying 'suck it up, here is the chart, start learning the icons out of your head' to the upset customer base should not be condoned by anyone.
This whole thing reeks for me like the time when CCP Nozh told us to target paint Titans. CCP developers who haven't got a clue how the game they should be working on actually works, should not be anywhere near fundamental game changes.
*Will be back once and if CCP gets their act together and these terrible icons have gone the way of the Dodo. So no, you cannot have my stuff, I'll need it in case I get back.
Ps: CSM X, superb and excellent job of being invisible. -.- |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 14:06:19 -
[1603] - Quote
Natya Mebelle: avoiding quoting your post to not make a quote block most of this reply
But otherwise, yeah, the armor/shield thing is probably different for fleet/blob activities, which I avoid like the plague, my experience is mostly small gang stuff, where people want the low slots for damage mods, and don't want plates at all, because being slow is being an easy target.
And it looks like I was not clear enough on my point on the plate variations 1600mm plates: tech 2: 4800 hp, 3.750.000kg, 35 cpu, 550 power restrained: 4000 hp, 3.000.000kg, 30 cpu, 500 power compact: 4000 hp, 3.500.000kg, 27 cpu, 480 power
It looks to me like the difference between the restrained and compact is too small, and people would just automatically choose the compact for every occation where they need to save any cpu or power. 3.5m kg, vs 3.0m kg, is not a huge difference, the cpu and power is.
And THEN comparing this to how the shields were balanced, the restrained armor, gets a 16.5% reduction in penalty restrained shields, 40% reduction in penalty.
I mean, the shield thing is huge, I'll be considering using restrained shields for every buffer tank ship that can even move at all, don't care about the T2 HP, that shield sig radius makes a huge difference.
The armor mass differece on the other hand, very meh, I'll just free up the power/cpu if I'm short for something, and not consider the restrained at all. Armor tank ships with hp buffers, are already slow enough, the very slighly higher mass wont factor in higher than getting better mods elsewhere on the ship.
And on the topic of not fixing things if they were not broken, well, of course there was room for improvement, the old system had us look at name/type to tell crusier/t2 crusier/battlecrusier/t2 battlecrusier apart, both for npc and player ships, Which makes a big difference in target priority. So there was certainly room for improvement.. however this system, I really cant call an improvement. Several of my ingame friends stopped logging in at the patch, and the rest don't have anything positive to say about the icons.
In the end, the "dont fix it if it's not broken" is something CCP needs to consider for their last year of patches. There have been a LOT of those small "improvement" patches, many of which did not actually IMPROVE the thing in question. Then CCP ignore feedback, declare success no matter what, and move on to "improve" the next thing. |
X4me1eoH
AirGuard LowSechnaya Sholupen
202
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 16:56:54 -
[1604] - Quote
new drones icons are very awful, look this screen for 2 second, and say, how many there ships http://i.imgur.com/iOormvS.png |
Ketov Aktar
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Get Off My Lawn
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 17:04:36 -
[1605] - Quote
Pretty sure someone has mentioned this...but the tracking camera is BROKEN. It tracks fine for a bit then goes all crazy once you jump or land at an anomaly. You can turn it off/on and it fixes it ....until the next time you click on something.
PLEASE FIX THIS! Thank you. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
369
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 18:39:34 -
[1606] - Quote
Dark Opaque Theme wrote:Ps: CSM X, superb and excellent job of being invisible. -.-
Yep. This CSM is pretty much the worst. This many players angry and upset, and I don't see any of them around. I mean they could be voicing this stuff privately, but that seems unlikely. Then again, we don't have many actual 'players' on the CSM - we have people who were picked, some who barely undock. How can they relate to the average citizen of new eden, and speak for them?
Yep. Impossible. The most childish part of this is the lack of communication and zero admittance that anything can be wrong with it, just a bunch of callous euphemisms for telling the player base to collectively like and use something that is both unlikeable, and for a great amount of us, unusable.
Seriously this change is game breaking. The most common feedback was the option to use the old icons, and that was completely ignored. Seriously, whomever was in charge of implementing the new map is wise beyond his or her years for having the option to use the old, because the forcing of unusable new stuff on people is seriously lame.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
202
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 20:23:41 -
[1607] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Eraza wrote:4) The 6 week release cycle is clearly not working as intended, and I would strongly prefer better content, more polish, even if it takes much longer. I for one, hope CCP returns to the 6 month release schedule, and gives us more polished, more complete, and better tested, content. 4) Yes, as often mentioned, and I am not getting tired to agree with this. However, I don't think returning to 6 months would be that good. I agree with the notion of CCP to have updates faster. I disagree with the intervals they set. CCP should have dropped it down to 4 months for starters. A gradual increase, and not a massive cut. It is very evident how the company cannot keep this pace :c But we will still run into the same core issue, they would only use that longer lead time for the really big feature changes, not the little things like icons. They would still wait until just before the intended patch to work on them and/or release them for testing.
What they SHOULD be doing with the 6 week release cycles is working on each feature/change for a long time before their intended release patch. They should be spending the time during all the previous patches (for example for a June release, Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May) working on the feature that will be released in June. Instead they seem to be waiting until after the May patch to start working on June features, or maybe at best only giving themselves a one patch lead time and starting in April.
There should be enough separate teams within CCP that they should each be working on their own stuff, with their own release date. Each team's release date should then be staggered by a release so that if you have 10 different teams working on things, they can each spend a year working on their given feature and they would have 10 full features over the course of the year, each fully developed and tested. Toss in random smaller 6 month projects and there you have an ideal 6 week release schedule. Not this last minute rushed crap they keep trying to feed us with usually little time to even generate feedback and nearly always too late for changes before the push to TQ.
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Dangeresque Too
Pistols for Pandas
202
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 20:26:04 -
[1608] - Quote
Came across this fun quote today that perfectly sums up this situation:
"A mistake repeated more than once is a decision."
What does that make mistakes repeated dozens of times? |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 22:09:07 -
[1609] - Quote
Dangeresque Too wrote:Came across this fun quote today that perfectly sums up this situation:
"A mistake repeated more than once is a decision."
What does that make mistakes repeated dozens of times?
Repeating the same mistake expecting a different outcome is called insanity
|
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.14 22:09:54 -
[1610] - Quote
Logged in.
Same icons.
Logged out. |
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Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 00:37:19 -
[1611] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I agree with the notion of CCP to have updates faster. I disagree with the intervals they set. CCP should have dropped it down to 4 months for starters. A gradual increase, and not a massive cut. It is very evident how the company cannot keep this pace :c
The new release cadence is fine. Greater release intervals would result in a much reduced flexibility, making it harder to fix problems, introduce new features or alter existing ones. People who are unfamiliar with professional software development might disagree, but I am working in this business for more than 20 years and know exactly what I am talking about. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
856
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 02:52:18 -
[1612] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote:I agree with the notion of CCP to have updates faster. I disagree with the intervals they set. CCP should have dropped it down to 4 months for starters. A gradual increase, and not a massive cut. It is very evident how the company cannot keep this pace :c The new release cadence is fine. Greater release intervals would result in a much reduced flexibility, making it harder to fix problems, introduce new features or alter existing ones. People who are unfamiliar with professional software development might disagree, but I am working in this business for more than 20 years and know exactly what I am talking about. If they are going to repeatedly release changes before they are ready, when the rapid release cadence removes the need for them to do that, then it's not the release cadence that is the source of the problem. |
Azeria L'Mante
FCON Aerarium Militare Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 03:34:26 -
[1613] - Quote
Alright CCP, you asked us to give it time, to see if we like the new icons.
I have given it until now from launch and I still feel like I'm playing a 1980s space invader game or Pacman. Some of them are just down-right horrible and have no correlation to the item's function. The icons in the Devblog when this was first announced was better than what eventually came to pass.
So, do I like the icons after some time?
I do not.
Please allow us to customize icon appearance or allow us to switch between old and new.
Also, FFS unify your icons across all views. Why do I look at a cargo container and it looks like a No Smoking sign, but in the inventory it has the old icon. The old icon was instantly recognizable, this new one is crap. |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 05:50:17 -
[1614] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Natya Mebelle wrote:I agree with the notion of CCP to have updates faster. I disagree with the intervals they set. CCP should have dropped it down to 4 months for starters. A gradual increase, and not a massive cut. It is very evident how the company cannot keep this pace :c The new release cadence is fine. Greater release intervals would result in a much reduced flexibility, making it harder to fix problems, introduce new features or alter existing ones. People who are unfamiliar with professional software development might disagree, but I am working in this business for more than 20 years and know exactly what I am talking about. If they are going to repeatedly release changes before they are ready, when the rapid release cadence removes the need for them to do that, then it's not the release cadence that is the source of the problem.
Right, it's not necessarily the cadence, but the 'maturity' of the change that's the problem. If it's not ready, it's not ready.
CCP has heard from the players. This particular change, the icons, is said to have a strong negative effect on game play per the majority of those posting. Some also note that it causes physical distress. (I haven't had to focus on the icons that much, so I haven't experienced this yet.)
Was no effort made to have a roll back plan, based on the strong possibility that the testing group on Singularity was correct about the playerbase issues with this icon set?
It's basically a New Coke moment for CCP, and adaptability, in the name of survival, should be a reasonable choice? |
gargars
The Tebo Corp
134
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 05:54:45 -
[1615] - Quote
It's been some time and the vast majority have asked for the option - at least - to undo these horrid new icons. Where is it?
CSM - where are YOU in all this? Cowards... at at the very least non-representative. Shock. |
Sullen Bear
Arctic Spirit
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 06:26:51 -
[1616] - Quote
IMO it is not possible to get used to new icons because they are not new mechanic or new ability. New icons broke our ability to distinguish player ships, NPC ships and structures. Does not matter how much time we will endure this broken mechanic - it still broken. The only way to repair it is return to simple logic - equal icons for all player ships, anothe equal icons for all NPC, oh, you know how it must look. Like perfect old icons. "Old icons does not allow to distinguish cruisers and battlecruisers". OK, with new icons we IN THEORY can do it. And...? How can it help me? Battlecruisers is more dangerouse than cruisers? Or cruisers more dangerouse? Eagle at 100 km is dangerouse, drake is not. So cruisers are more dangerouse? But stop, naga at 100 km is dangerouse, omen is not. So battlecruisers are more dangerouse? This was simplified example, only for guys who have never play EVE. The reality is much more complicated. In PvP nobody care about ship class. We need (from icons) only first quick classification - this is player, this is wreck, this is structure, this is drone. Thats all. PS: please, NEVER disable old system map. New map unsuitable and I seriously affraid it never will be. Old system map is almost perfect, because it work, because it work fast, and because it contain ONLY usable information. This is base rules how to create perfect instrument. New map is something completely different, . It is not work, it is not work fast, and it contain unusable graphic stuff. |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
70
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 07:00:22 -
[1617] - Quote
Patch Notes for Carnyx 2015-06-11 11:36 Patch notes for Carnyx 1.5
Released on Thursday, June 11, 2015
Technical:
Fixed the tracking camera moving erratically when the new map is docked, and made various other small improvements to the general functionality of the tracking camera.
the tracking camera is not fixed undo these changes!!! |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
152
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 09:14:12 -
[1618] - Quote
Hello,
CCP please reply to your employers |
John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 09:14:26 -
[1619] - Quote
Hi!
Sry, did not read all the 80 pages - did someone mentioned that new icons are ... bad? If no - I can confirm - they are bad. Really.
Main problem for me - I cannot differentiate meaningful groups of objects: player ships, NPC ships and other stuff (i call it Misc. as my overview tab).
Also, as for icon's design...
New ones has many curves and lines now (which complifies its transcription greatly) - old ones had less (but still enough to differentiate)= squares and crosses.
I think, new design will win with this minimalistic approach - player would concentrate more on gameplay than on 'icons reading', IMHO.
Many carebears has the most beautiful and iconic symbol hardprinted in their subconciousness - "Red-Big-Fat-Cross-NPC-Battleship-Yeah!" If you ruin it - how much efforts should be put to form a new one? Is this sacrifice is really worth?
C'mon, guys, my hope is still alive ;) |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
169
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 09:16:04 -
[1620] - Quote
Eraza wrote:*snippety snip*
So there was certainly room for improvement.. however this system, I really cant call an improvement. Several of my ingame friends stopped logging in at the patch, and the rest don't have anything positive to say about the icons.
In the end, the "dont fix it if it's not broken" is something CCP needs to consider for their last year of patches. There have been a LOT of those small "improvement" patches, many of which did not actually IMPROVE the thing in question. Then CCP ignore feedback, declare success no matter what, and move on to "improve" the next thing. I snipped the part where you explained how the difference between extenders and plates is there, and is bad. While I was never questioning that and I'm totally on board with you there, it sure was good to have another detailed look on it c: It is also very interesting how diverse Eve is, because I wasn't talking about big fleet activities either and thought you were :D Because the small engagements I know are mostly armor. But again, this is how different people play eve, which is a good thing!
And yes, this is what it all boils down to, as I mentioned before. The intention was well meant, but the priorities were skewed and the outcome left wanting. Things started out good for the first two patches or so for the rapid deployment schedule, but then more and more issues came along.
Dangeresque Too wrote:But we will still run into the same core issue, they would only use that longer lead time for the really big feature changes, not the little things like icons. They would still wait until just before the intended patch to work on them and/or release them for testing.
What they SHOULD be doing with the 6 week release cycles is working on each feature/change for a long time before their intended release patch. They should be spending the time during all the previous patches (for example for a June release, Jan, Feb, Mar, April, May) working on the feature that will be released in June. Instead they seem to be waiting until after the May patch to start working on June features, or maybe at best only giving themselves a one patch lead time and starting in April.
*snip because it's the same as above* You wrote quality stuff before in this topic, but what happened here? You claim things as fact which you simply have no idea about. Do you sit in the office of CCP ? Do you know if they squeeze in small things with large updates? No, you don't. You talk about what they should do, but who says they are not doing that already? Only because the result is broken does not mean they haven't been working on it for all that time. Also, if you have checked the updates website, you would have seen how the plans for future releases have been carved for quite some time, but this update schedule had less and less glimpse on future content as the patches went on. So there was very well development planned ahead. They sure spent their effort, but it isn't always coming out as good as we want to, which is certainly showing more and more as the release schedule keeps being on a tight leash.
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:The new release cadence is fine. Greater release intervals would result in a much reduced flexibility, making it harder to fix problems, introduce new features or alter existing ones. People who are unfamiliar with professional software development might disagree, but I am working in this business for more than 20 years and know exactly what I am talking about. And the next one. Do you sit in the CCP office and can tell if the developers are not hard pressed and need to push out half-finished products BECAUSE of the fast update schedule and because they simply don't have enough time to flesh them out properly? No, you don't. And only because you work for 20 years in the "software development" which is a pretty ambiguous and broad term doesn't mean your company relates to CCP or any other similar company.
Joia Crenca wrote:Right, it's not necessarily the cadence, but the 'maturity' of the change that's the problem. If it's not ready, it's not ready.
Was no effort made to have a roll back plan, based on the strong possibility that the testing group on Singularity was correct about the playerbase issues with this icon set? THIS is a much more accurate depiction of the problem.
Even if we disregard the difficulties to adapt to a fast paced content schedule when there is not enough content ready to be delivered and even if we disregard the obvious presence of half-finished products, the mentality to work on this is clearly showing a lack of adaptability. Even if we disregard the possibility of management pushing half finished products instead of throwing in the brakes to get it right, it still looks fishy.
Something obviously is wrong but we cannot say for sure what it is. What if the developers wanted to listen to the feedback, but management said "nope" ? What if the developers were confident with the update schedule at first, but it turned out it was too much to keep up with and now there is an internal fight between the development teams and management? What if the developers had a skewed view on what is going on in the game and their ideas on how to improve it were actually counter-productive, and now they have to face the consequences for possibly driving the company down?
We simply don't know. All we can do is wait for official statements that explain what happened, similar to what was going on with Incarna. And of course, we can keep our feedback rolling while others cancel their subscriptions. Those are the only two things that will really matter in the end. |
|
Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
570
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 10:45:06 -
[1621] - Quote
I attempted to instigate some pvp over the weekend - the icon set has pretty much made me decide to sit in station.
Seriously, CCP, i know the old icon set wasn't exactly perfect (transport ships having the BS icon for example) but at least we understood the minor foibles of the system. Currently its exceptionally difficult to see what each icon is meant to represent. The ISIS icons would be still be damn sight better than the pictographs that are in use now which make an Ork glyph look like a Monet..
Under the old system, i actually understood what sort of ship (ish) i was facing - this set, i now need to "get" a method of artistic methodology which means *nothing* to me. I actually abandoned using the icons for that reason during my PvP and have resorted to minimising it and using the ship class as my identifier now...
"For it was said they had become like those peculiar demons, which dwell in matter but in whom no light may be found." - Father Grigori, Ravens 3:57
|
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 12:08:37 -
[1622] - Quote
Still no patch for the icons and no new comment here in this post.
1) What was the opinion of our elected representatives (CSM) who do not log in here to speak?
2) What happens now with the icons? Will there be a choice between old and new?
CCP or one of the CSM-Members: Give us some good news, please. |
Hard Carnt
The Vendunari End of Life
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 12:20:46 -
[1623] - Quote
I have been logging in the lasr few days after 6 months hiatus.have to say Ui I changes- not good ATM. However there is an area where i can see it with refinement becoming usable. Thrusti g this interface upon new players is kind of like just happening to be a civilian in stalingrad in the early to mid forties... what is going on look at that im dead. I do see pote tial for it with experie ced players that can customise it for specific purposes. I wanna grind some missions in hjghsec, fine i might use the advanced interface for wahyever reason. Im in a large engagement of some sort? I just wanna know what i can shoot at and what i can warp to - 'legacy' overview it is. Where i can see real potential for it is as a customizable option for solo pvp. I do however think it needs to be customizable, and the option of the old interface to be used when needed so as players don't have to spend the next 7years of the life at ccp university getting doctorates in overview icon identification. Cheers HC |
Shai'd Hulud
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 12:33:13 -
[1624] - Quote
HEY!!!! HELLO! TOC TOC TOC..... CCP,
CAN WE HAVE STATUS FOR ALL BUGS INCLUDING :
1- New Icons 2- Bad quality of Golem skins (basic skin and Kaalakiota skin) 3- Camera and option "Turn Tracking Camera = On"
Thank's for fast answer.... lol........and good day to you! |
Jellas
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
13
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 14:43:11 -
[1625] - Quote
No changes, no subscription. |
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 15:13:37 -
[1626] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Do you sit in the CCP office and can tell if the developers are not hard pressed and need to push out half-finished products BECAUSE of the fast update schedule and because they simply don't have enough time to flesh them out properly? No, you don't. I don't need to. Inexperienced (in terms of software development) people tend to confuse the possibility of releasing fixes/changes frequently with the necessity of introducing new features frequently. A team can release what was finished in a sprint (I prefer the term iteration) and maintain a backlog of unfinished work for future iterations in a Scrum-like process much more easily than in monolithic releases.
Natya Mebelle wrote:And only because you work for 20 years in the "software development" which is a pretty ambiguous and broad term doesn't mean your company relates to CCP or any other similar company. Should I ever feel the need for (or even the slightest interest in) your blessing for anything I do, very successfully, I'll be sure to let you know. |
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 15:36:33 -
[1627] - Quote
Dear CCP,
It is not my habit to post at forum, however the current situation with game UI urges to discuss it. I have started playing EVE Online roughly two years ago and participated in GÇ£little thingsGÇ¥ voting, which made me think that you still care about players community.
What happens now is really sad. And I do apologize for being not polite. GÇ£GUI ModernizationGÇ¥ initiative went wrong. In my understanding the root of problem is that new map and overview designers, probably, do not care much about results and their acceptance. Also the phrase GÇ£Quality ControlGÇ¥ sounds like a mockery for me, because at 90% UI scale new icons are the complete mess and just one this fact alone was enough reason to prevent their deployment to TQ.
The new overview is GÇ£fancyGÇ¥. Too excessive and hard to distinguish glyphs. As EVE Online is mostly PVP game I'd prefer more minimalistic approach: to be able to immediately distinguish player's ships, NPCs and celestials at a single look. This worked good with old icons and doesn't work at all with the new ones. Even after a week they were implemented.
Generally speaking, many new UI improvements were not for better:
1) Jump animation Please, make it optional, like camera shake. Of course, it deserves GÇ£wow!sGÇ¥ at Fanfest, but each every day I make dozens of gate jumps and it causes only negative mood. I'd like to remind you that on many concert DVDs there is a warning printed GÇ£contains stroboscopic effectsGÇ¥, as not 100% of people like watching flashing vertigo. Please, make alternative in graphics options: fade in to black GÇô fade out.
2) Neokom Old neokom was more compact and more informative. New icons are simply worse.
3) Damage control icon I have absolutely no idea why it was so necessary to change it.
4) Map The only advantage of new map is that it can be windowed. All the rest are disadvantages. While scanning with the old map it was perfectly clear where POSes are located and manipulating probes was also easier. Please, do not remove old map.
5) Brackets and icons. They are excessive and inefficient. Please make them optional like a new map.
As far as I understand making simple things GÇ£prettierGÇ¥ is the wrong priority. Revolutionary changes are required to break something old inefficient and to build something more useful. Denying old features noone ever complained about and replacing them with less usable stuff is the mistake. Can you, please, set usability as the main priority for GÇ£UI modernizationGÇ¥ rather than GÇ£fancier lookGÇ¥.
The GÇ£red crossesGÇ¥ are already eponymic, please, bring them back ASAP.
Thanks |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
71
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 16:00:31 -
[1628] - Quote
Dino Zavr wrote:Dear CCP,
It is not my habit to post at forum, however the current situation with game UI urges to discuss it. I have started playing EVE Online roughly two years ago and participated in GÇ£little thingsGÇ¥ voting, which made me think that you still care about players community.
What happens now is really sad. And I do apologize for being not polite. GÇ£GUI ModernizationGÇ¥ initiative went wrong. In my understanding the root of problem is that new map and overview designers, probably, do not care much about results and their acceptance. Also the phrase GÇ£Quality ControlGÇ¥ sounds like a mockery for me, because at 90% UI scale new icons are the complete mess and just one this fact alone was enough reason to prevent their deployment to TQ.
The new overview is GÇ£fancyGÇ¥. Too excessive and hard to distinguish glyphs. As EVE Online is mostly PVP game I'd prefer more minimalistic approach: to be able to immediately distinguish player's ships, NPCs and celestials at a single look. This worked good with old icons and doesn't work at all with the new ones. Even after a week they were implemented.
Generally speaking, many new UI improvements were not for better:
1) Jump animation Please, make it optional, like camera shake. Of course, it deserves GÇ£wow!sGÇ¥ at Fanfest, but each every day I make dozens of gate jumps and it causes only negative mood. I'd like to remind you that on many concert DVDs there is a warning printed GÇ£contains stroboscopic effectsGÇ¥, as not 100% of people like watching flashing vertigo. Please, make alternative in graphics options: fade in to black GÇô fade out.
2) Neokom Old neokom was more compact and more informative. New icons are simply worse.
3) Damage control icon I have absolutely no idea why it was so necessary to change it.
4) Map The only advantage of new map is that it can be windowed. All the rest are disadvantages. While scanning with the old map it was perfectly clear where POSes are located and manipulating probes was also easier. Please, do not remove old map.
5) Brackets and icons. They are excessive and inefficient. Please make them optional like a new map.
As far as I understand making simple things GÇ£prettierGÇ¥ is the wrong priority. Revolutionary changes are required to break something old inefficient and to build something more useful. Denying old features noone ever complained about and replacing them with less usable stuff is the mistake. Can you, please, set usability as the main priority for GÇ£UI modernizationGÇ¥ rather than GÇ£fancier lookGÇ¥.
The GÇ£red crossesGÇ¥ are already eponymic, please, bring them back ASAP.
Thanks
do not forget about the tracking camera bug thats been around since the last "FIX" |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
781
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 17:22:52 -
[1629] - Quote
7. But yeah... I'm not sure how necessary it is for drones to have their own icons. Reverting all drones back to little 'X's would make blobs of brackets read faster. Or at least fill in player ship icons so they are solid shapes, and leave drones hollow maybe. |
Torxx Maxx
Almost Human.
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 17:22:53 -
[1630] - Quote
CCP has to be reading this thread but why they don't respond is beyond me, the new icons are useless as well as a few other messes posted before me, it's the icons that made me unsub three accounts but the lack of caring for there paying member base is what will most likely keep me from coming back to Eve, I loved the game up to this point even with many other unneeded "fixes" before this but the longer this drags out with no response from CCP about a real fix for the icons (rollback or have them an option) the less I want to be involved with this game.
It looks as though another game will be getting my entertainment dollar very soon as it's a matter of days until all three of my accounts time runs out.
My network of spies closely monitors you at all times. GET YOUR FINGER OUT OF YOUR NOSE!
|
|
Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
20
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:04:50 -
[1631] - Quote
It really is hard to fathom a company that completely ignores the legitimate concerns of a large segment of their customer base. By the time CCP gets around to addressing the issues, so many of us will have left this game (perhaps never to return) and gone to other venues where we are more appreciated.
It occurs to me that IF there were ANY CCP employees who truly cared about this game, one of them would have "leaked" some info to one of the great players who have posted such valid and useful suggestions here, letting the community know what is really going on. The lingering silence suggests that no one inside CCP cares enough about us to level with us or that there is not enough testicular fortitude amongst the staff to induce them to provide such a leak.
As for the CSM - that bunch should be ashamed of itself and the entire group should be disbanded as worthless and ineffective.
And with that, I'll be quiet and let better players than I comment.
o7 Lantyss |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
84
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:06:47 -
[1632] - Quote
Sophia Mileghere wrote:Still no patch for the icons and no new comment here in this post.
1) What was the opinion of our elected representatives (CSM) who do not log in here to speak?
2) What happens now with the icons? Will there be a choice between old and new?
CCP or one of the CSM-Members: Give us some good news, please.
For real. Whiskey tango foxtrot, CCP? Give us the option to turn off your "improvements".
CSM - you're terrible. Resign. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
108
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:23:59 -
[1633] - Quote
So, where are the notes from that Dev and CSM meeting of Uberness that was supposed to happen last week?
Where's an official update from CCP about this icon debacle?
You've blown through all your slack, cover, cute credits, and get out of trouble free cards.
You wanted feedback on Sisi about the icons, you got it. Ignored it. This is a general feedback for Carnyx. You got it, you're ignoring it as much as you can, but it's not going away like you're hoping it would. At what point does someone in your shiny glass walled office space frikiken 'man up' to getting rid of this mess in the most painless possible way, giving us the choice to use the old or new icons?
Or is your pride unwilling to back down? We all know what goes before a fall. As a company in the competitive world of MMO's, you should also know what happens when the customer base wanders off due to it's needs not being attended to, and don't come back out of sheer frustration. You had your Incarna, do you really want it in 2.0? I'm sure you won't give much of a damn about two of my accounts no longer active, and this one running out of time at the end of the month. I'll get by if need be in 30 day trials for Eve gaming. That way I don't feel 'scammed' or 'ripped off' since you've made it very clear by your few posts and otherwise silence...
You don't 'need' your player base to expand to new blood, when the alt accounts of the 'bitter vets' can cover your electric bills and payroll.
As for the current CSM. Pitiful. Cowardly. Ineffective. AWOL.
If that's what gets someone a free flight to Iceland now and again, being mostly useless with a membership to the 'cool kids club' of Eve, you can keep it. My integrity is worth more than tourist trips.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Delegate
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 21:28:59 -
[1634] - Quote
Dino Zavr wrote:Dear CCP,
It is not my habit to post at forum, however the current situation with game UI urges to discuss it. I have started playing EVE Online roughly two years ago and participated in GÇ£little thingsGÇ¥ voting, which made me think that you still care about players community.
What happens now is really sad. And I do apologize for being not polite. GÇ£GUI ModernizationGÇ¥ initiative went wrong. In my understanding the root of problem is that new map and overview designers, probably, do not care much about results and their acceptance. Also the phrase GÇ£Quality ControlGÇ¥ sounds like a mockery for me, because at 90% UI scale new icons are the complete mess and just one this fact alone was enough reason to prevent their deployment to TQ.
The new overview is GÇ£fancyGÇ¥. Too excessive and hard to distinguish glyphs. As EVE Online is mostly PVP game I'd prefer more minimalistic approach: to be able to immediately distinguish player's ships, NPCs and celestials at a single look. This worked good with old icons and doesn't work at all with the new ones. Even after a week they were implemented.
Generally speaking, many new UI improvements were not for better:
1) Jump animation Please, make it optional, like camera shake. Of course, it deserves GÇ£wow!sGÇ¥ at Fanfest, but each every day I make dozens of gate jumps and it causes only negative mood. I'd like to remind you that on many concert DVDs there is a warning printed GÇ£contains stroboscopic effectsGÇ¥, as not 100% of people like watching flashing vertigo. Please, make alternative in graphics options: fade in to black GÇô fade out.
2) Neokom Old neokom was more compact and more informative. New icons are simply worse.
3) Damage control icon I have absolutely no idea why it was so necessary to change it.
4) Map The only advantage of new map is that it can be windowed. All the rest are disadvantages. While scanning with the old map it was perfectly clear where POSes are located and manipulating probes was also easier. Please, do not remove old map.
5) Brackets and icons. They are excessive and inefficient. Please make them optional like a new map.
As far as I understand making simple things GÇ£prettierGÇ¥ is the wrong priority. Revolutionary changes are required to break something old inefficient and to build something more useful. Denying old features noone ever complained about and replacing them with less usable stuff is the mistake. Can you, please, set usability as the main priority for GÇ£UI modernizationGÇ¥ rather than GÇ£fancier lookGÇ¥.
The GÇ£red crossesGÇ¥ are already eponymic, please, bring them back ASAP.
Thanks
I second this opinion.
Sadly, new icons and, especially, new map trade a lot of usability for 'fanciness'. This is frustrating for players that squeeze efficiency from UI. I am also concerned that UI deficiencies are not getting fixed in reasonable time frame. New map was made default some weeks ago, but until this very day it is simply no-go for scanning.
CCP should put a simple acceptance test for any important change to UI: can I use this efficiently when under time pressure and overloaded by in-game events. Answering yes to this question would probably mean inertia in the map must go away. Spurious animations in the map probably must go away. Minute details here and there in the icons probably must go away. Circle may turn out to not be the best pointer after all. And d-scan support may end up being rather important part of the solar system map. Or at least give us options that make scanning map a professional scanning map and overview icons a proper PVP icons. |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 22:12:09 -
[1635] - Quote
The longer you let this icongate drag on without a resolution,the less it will look like you value and respect your player base.
Infact you have a fantastic opportunity to do just that,to show that we really matter.I can't speak for everyone but i certainly wouldn't think you weak if you were to rectify something that clearly hasn't worked out as you'd hoped.
This shouldn't be about pride or losing face rather it should just treated as a mistake and a learning process Please do the right thing. |
Torxx Maxx
Almost Human.
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 22:39:44 -
[1636] - Quote
Eke Patang wrote:The longer you let this icongate drag on without a resolution,the less it will look like you value and respect your player base.
Infact you have a fantastic opportunity to do just that,to show that we really matter.I can't speak for everyone but i certainly wouldn't think you weak if you were to rectify something that clearly hasn't worked out as you'd hoped.
This shouldn't be about pride or losing face rather it should just treated as a mistake and a learning process Please do the right thing.
I have no clue to what fuels some of the latest changes or why a person or group of people wanted to fix stuff that wasn't broken, all I know is that I feel that I am being forced to use sub par enhancements to what worked perfectly fine in the past.
I have un-subbed my accounts in the past as protests to the module icon changes some years back but re-subbed once they were reverted, I'll do the same if there is an option to use the older icons over the new set of bullsh1t but with my eyesight there is no way I can play with the icons now in place so if they are not reverted or made an option my Eve days are over. |
Koba Kyogen
Ultima Unitatis The Asylum.
88
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 23:00:20 -
[1637] - Quote
Iceland, where are you?
Chop chop, veteran players are disgusted.
I have not called for anyone to be fired, as I though it wasn't necessary.
Now, I'm warming up to the idea.
Fire away.
Iceland, where are you? |
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.15 23:38:02 -
[1638] - Quote
'Icongate'... I like that...
The new icons are still here, which is very disappointing...
No word from Devs, GMs or the big man himself with any proposals for solutions...
Its all very, very frustrating... and pretty poor customer service... and there's only one thing worse than poor customer service and that is no service at all... Pretty much what we appear to be getting at the moment...
Oh those far off promises, made so long ago, that this kind of situation would not reoccur..
The issues have been well documented with relation to the icons, camera etc...
CCP, it really is time to act, as folx are getting tad tired of banging their heads against a wall of silence and inaction.. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 00:01:56 -
[1639] - Quote
Checking the thread I realized that its already 6 days that i posted here ... the lack of responsiveness from CCPs side is really irritating (so say the least).
You guys got a lot of qualified, constructive and friendly feedback during the course of threadnaught - even the dumbest and most stubborn person should have understood by then that there are real issues and reasons why people dont like those new icons.
You are aware that you cater for very different players and playstyles? What might be okay for a highsec miner (or even is liked by him as it looks so "fresh and fancy" and "gives additonal information") in many cases might turn out inacceptable for your pvpers and low/null inhabitants.
Its sure a difficult job to make things right for all these different groups and needs - but if you deliberately **** off and estrange one of those groups FOR NOTHING (cause thats what the whole icongate is, no one asked for those), then you are busy digging your own grave ......
About your lack of response - I saw quite some "enhancements" in these latest expansions that i found absolutely horrible, and when i read about your plans for the future there are more ahead - if you dont learn to take responsibility and revert errors in a timely manner, I-¦m afraid you wont make it.
People like the guys who decided the new map "was out of beta" and came up with the clever idea to just "weather" this shitstorm..... do they really know what they are doing?
feeling already quite estranged Orm
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
115
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 00:10:07 -
[1640] - Quote
Ya know, if I wanted to be waiting on 'hold' this long, I'd call my local DMV to ask about changing the registration date on my vehicle. At least there I get a vague number on how many are on hold in front of me, and an ETA for a live person on the other end of the call.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
|
space gator
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 01:07:48 -
[1641] - Quote
Been patient, but getting tough our friends at ccp.
Carnyx was released on June 2. Icon issue was raised immediately. Last reply regarding was June 9.
Any status at this point would be appreciated by the eve community. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 02:21:19 -
[1642] - Quote
You know they laugh when they read the emo stuff from players on the forums, right? You should know your tears sustain them. Isn't there enough rage quit mockery in peoples bio's, enough that you don't have to do it on the forums? lol...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 02:44:18 -
[1643] - Quote
account has been succefully unsub!!! after testing it 5 mn, i confirm it's a success!
try "PLEX for icon"!!! give some plex to get a correct icon...
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
115
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 02:52:20 -
[1644] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:You know they laugh when they read the emo stuff from players on the forums, right? You should know your tears sustain them. Isn't there enough rage quit mockery in peoples bio's, enough that you don't have to do it on the forums? lol...
They can laugh and harvest tears as much as they want... right out of business solvency if that gives them a better headrush! I'm all for having fun at someone else's expense, why should a business based on subscription fees be any different when it comes to their customers?
At the end of the day though, they are a business. The customer base has a serious problem and it's being blatantly ignored. Not a good idea to maintain a healthy bottom line on the quarterly financial reports.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 07:39:39 -
[1645] - Quote
I got an answer about the Icons.
I was told.... that I need to contact the CSM about the icons
So, the CSM has more control over the direction of icons than CCP.
Weird.
In the meantime, I have removed the icons completly from my overview.
Recruitment is open for Renegade Armada PvP / Merc corp.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
154
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 07:50:27 -
[1646] - Quote
I will reposting again and again
Quote:1. First we hear from many of you the difference between NPC and player ships is simply too subtle with the new icon set, and we're right now experimenting with alternatives to separate these groups more, maybe adding entirely new shapes for NPC ships to make them more clearly stand out from players.
Jesus f..ck,
Are you deaf or blind or again you are doing what you want?! I will try with simple English words
1. PVP overview icons - simple SQUARE as before for ANY SHIPS CLASS!!! 2. NPC overview icons - BIG cross for BS, med cross for BC, small cross for frigates as before!!!
3. IF SOMEONE wants to use new icons make an option to change it if player wish!!
Edit 2: And why the hell you change the names of the MWD modules???!! You think is cool? or you don't have what to do... but again you are wrong |
Nym Doe
Bear Bones Brigade The Bastards.
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 07:56:36 -
[1647] - Quote
On the off chance that the slowing down of posts on this thread is misinterpreted as 'getting used to the new icons', here is yet another post requesting the roll back to the previous set.
For all the reasons I can no longer be bothered to type out. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
858
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 08:29:28 -
[1648] - Quote
Sykaotic wrote:I got an answer about the Icons. I was told.... that I need to contact the CSM about the icons So, the CSM has more control over the direction of icons than CCP. That doesn't neccessarily follow.
They could be directing you to another person who also cannot help you. |
Shuckstar
Tax Haters Evaders Corp
298
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 09:53:08 -
[1649] - Quote
Had to remove the icon tab completely from my overview, it's terrible my 3yr old niece could of done better Using the type column is better than the icon column in it's current form. Option to switch to old icons please.
CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
|
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
161
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:09:06 -
[1650] - Quote
Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
|
|
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:10:00 -
[1651] - Quote
nothing to say but sigh |
Steijn
Quay Industries
790
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:12:58 -
[1652] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far.
too late, first account goes dormant in 4d.
EDIT. and the current icons dont need improving, they need binning. |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:19:37 -
[1653] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:uhnboy ghost wrote:24h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again...
i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i check whats on sale on steam while I wait. 46h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, hmm maybe do a big cleaning of my appartment while i wait. 70h since last login... hey look a new patch, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its friday so time to drown my sorrow and fall asleep crying while watching old eve movies and remembering the good old days when i could play eve. 94h since last login... hey look no patch today, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back in tomorrow again, i guess i... well its National Day here today so i guess i celebrate it 165h since last login... hey look no patch today, hmm no info on when u can switch back to the old icons so i can play again... i check back later this week, starting to not care anymore Edit: "u only complain on the forum but i bet u 100m that u stil play" (talking afk whit a friend) http://i.imgur.com/XjuHHf5.png well u loose, send the isk pls... never mind keep it, i dont need it :-)
14 days since last login... luckly the steam sale have some nice games i can play. i-¦m out 07
R.I.P eveonline 2003-2015 "lost but never forgotten"
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Lahnius
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:29:26 -
[1654] - Quote
Lahnius wrote:something to consider ...
the reaction time of the human eye is limited. the old icons were easy on the eyes as far as reaction time is concerned. when you introduce multiple shapes into a visual environment where reaction time is critical, you reduce the speed at which the human brain reacts, thusly reducing the speed in which it takes the human brain to send a command to the hand to "click".
the old icons allowed a simple and basic instruction set for the eyes to react upon. uniformity provided ease in that reaction time. the player knows exactly what theyre going to do based on uniformity of a set of given shapes.
the new icons reduce eye to brain to hand reaction time due to the increased number of shapes introduced into the visual environment. this causes delays, pause for the brain to think, confusion in the brain causes the hand to delay waiting for a commmand from the brain, which is awaiting the reaction from the eye.
multiple shapes in the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor can, and does, cause eye strain, delayed reaction, reduced thought processing, stress, fatigue ... and all of this can create anger since the mind desires speed and is not obtaining that speed.
introducing multiple non-colored shapes into the visual environment where speed is a crucial factor DOES reduce reaction time since the human brain sometimes doesnt retain in memory too many shapes being delivered through the eyes at one single moment.
proven, large scale pvp is a pain in the arse - too many shapes being introduced in the overview causing confusion and delays in reaction time. the simplicity was removed, complexity was added, thusly the end result is going to be frustration and anger, not pleasure and acceptance.
multiple shapes in a visual environment where reaction time is not a factor is easily processed in the brain ... but again, when reaction timing is critical, those same shapes will cause a slowdown in reaction time.
this entire thread is about frustration, dislike, hatred, and confusion as to why this is being added and that it should be removed.
yay groovy someone got paid to create a bunch of things they thought was going to be cool ... what has happened is something entirely different due to ignorance and a lack of consideration.
what is going to happen here, is people WILL quit this game due to the fact that the human body can only process so much and to introduce factors that exceed that processing ability, you create a negative reaction in the mind. create a negative reaction in peoples minds and people walk away. they might not really want to, but they will.
... and I bump this once again ... why? because i STILL feel that its important that CCP read it, and re-read it ...
... i am still disgusted and NOT used to these new icons, and I have spent hours upon hours playing and TRYING to get used to them in order to try and see if it is possible for me to change my mind about how i have felt initially regarding the new icons ... well i dont and i cant and i know now that it just isnt possible for me to get used to them ...
... its just too much, cumbersome, awkward, overwhelming, confusing ... *rubs eyes again* |
Jungleland Roy
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:30:46 -
[1655] - Quote
CCP Claymore
Being as restrained as i can be - roll back the icon changes. Just do it!
Then have all the discussions in the world you (and us) want, write all the dev blogs you want and introduce the new (and modifed) icons in stages.
All Problemss solved.
Why is this so hard for you to come to terms with??
Seriously, is there some probem in reverting temprorarily until a really good solution is found?
Roy
_if you could fly it before, you can fly it now.-á_
Read the Blog.
|
Iphigeneia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:38:20 -
[1656] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far.
And presumably this blog will also explain why player feedback was discarded? I'm greatly interested to hear the answer on that one, as I've been following this thread and it sounds to me as though player reaction has been primarily (not completely or unanimously, however) averse to these new icons, while CCP reaction to feedback has been "we don't care." Now if that's not true I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as a rather new player I'm a bit discouraged that this situation with the icons -- something a lot of people have difficulty with -- will seemingly be glossed over with a "this is why we did it" blog post instead of a "we hear your concerns and this is how we'll fix it" post.
The icons are blurry, messy, and make it far more difficult to discern quickly what is in front of me. I too have considered removing the icon tab altogether as not having them, frankly, seems preferable to being bewildered by them. No, I have not scaled my UI to 90% and I still say they are blurry. I play on a 1920 x 1080 resolution screen and daily find myself wishing for the clearness of the old brackets. Instead of mousing over to determine frigate/destroyer, as with the old system, I now find myself mousing over to determine battleship, cruiser, or battlecruiser. Specifically: -Battleship icon does not convey a much larger size vessel than a cruiser/battlecruiser icon. I recognise this one may simply be personal opinion but I keep wanting to think the house shap is a battleship and not a cruiser, just because it "feels" like a larger vessel than that rhomboid shape which is the battleship. -Large Collidable Structure icons are difficult to discern, either in space or in the overview list itself. -The pod icon, most of the structure icons, and the asteroid icons feel like they are cramming too many lines and pixels into far too small of a space, leaving the impression of a blurry mess to my eyes. I realise that my eyes aren't the clearest 20-20 vision but surely you must understand many people play with less than perfect vision. -While the drones icons are quite nice, as are the sun and acceleration gate icons, they too suffer from the too many pixels making it seem blurry issue that I have. -NPCs are NOT easily discerned. I play zoomed out fairly far and when arriving at a gate, I had a rather difficult time telling player battleships apart from the Concord battleships present. Now I know some people will say i merely need to assign colours to players so I can tell them apart from NPCs but really, the previous system of crosses and rectangular brackets worked very well, I do not see why that had to be removed in place of a barely discernible difference as this one is. -I believe in the case of overview icons that less is more. While it's nice that the various types of drones are differentiated, the various sizes of asteroids and ice are indicated, and we get a new icon for corpses ... I don't see that they were necessary. I only need to know whether it is a drone, not what kind of drone; I only need to know that it's an asteroid, I don't need to know it's size. -I can see that the old brackets left a lot to be desired in terms of describing what you are looking at. However, the old brackets and pluses and drone xs had this advantage: that they were INSTANTLY discernible. You never had trouble telling apart Concord from player battleships at a gate. You KNEW instantly that it was a drone and not a frigate orbiting you. They were also not blurry to look at. -for the love of god WHY did you take the triangle icon from the Mobile Tractor Unit and make it the frigate icon? I STILL start wondering why MTUs are shooting at me as soon as I see them on grid and I've been playing daily, which you'd think would be enough time to get used to that particularly nefarious change. If you had to reuse that triangle, could you perhaps have put it on something that wasn't piloted by a player? -WRECKS. The extra pixels in wrecks are wholly unnecessary. Again, blurry and harder to make out.
I'm sure that's a lot of feedback but I'm really looking forward to reading this blog post. I'm getting cynical already and I'm not nearly old enough to be a bittervet but so far, the response from devs has been so underwhelming that I'm half expecting a post that doesn't address any player concerns at all. |
|
CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
161
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:52:07 -
[1657] - Quote
Iphigeneia wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. And presumably this blog will also explain why player feedback was discarded? I'm greatly interested to hear the answer on that one, as I've been following this thread and it sounds to me as though player reaction has been primarily (not completely or unanimously, however) averse to these new icons, while CCP reaction to feedback has been "we don't care." Now if that's not true I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as a rather new player I'm a bit discouraged that this situation with the icons -- something a lot of people have difficulty with -- will seemingly be glossed over with a "this is why we did it" blog post instead of a "we hear your concerns and this is how we'll fix it" post. The icons are blurry, messy, and make it far more difficult to discern quickly what is in front of me. I too have considered removing the icon tab altogether as not having them, frankly, seems preferable to being bewildered by them. No, I have not scaled my UI to 90% and I still say they are blurry. I play on a 1920 x 1080 resolution screen and daily find myself wishing for the clearness of the old brackets. Instead of mousing over to determine frigate/destroyer, as with the old system, I now find myself mousing over to determine battleship, cruiser, or battlecruiser. Specifically: -Battleship icon does not convey a much larger size vessel than a cruiser/battlecruiser icon. I recognise this one may simply be personal opinion but I keep wanting to think the house shap is a battleship and not a cruiser, just because it "feels" like a larger vessel than that rhomboid shape which is the battleship. -Large Collidable Structure icons are difficult to discern, either in space or in the overview list itself. -The pod icon, most of the structure icons, and the asteroid icons feel like they are cramming too many lines and pixels into far too small of a space, leaving the impression of a blurry mess to my eyes. I realise that my eyes aren't the clearest 20-20 vision but surely you must understand many people play with less than perfect vision. -While the drones icons are quite nice, as are the sun and acceleration gate icons, they too suffer from the too many pixels making it seem blurry issue that I have. -NPCs are NOT easily discerned. I play zoomed out fairly far and when arriving at a gate, I had a rather difficult time telling player battleships apart from the Concord battleships present. Now I know some people will say i merely need to assign colours to players so I can tell them apart from NPCs but really, the previous system of crosses and rectangular brackets worked very well, I do not see why that had to be removed in place of a barely discernible difference as this one is. -I believe in the case of overview icons that less is more. While it's nice that the various types of drones are differentiated, the various sizes of asteroids and ice are indicated, and we get a new icon for corpses ... I don't see that they were necessary. I only need to know whether it is a drone, not what kind of drone; I only need to know that it's an asteroid, I don't need to know it's size. -I can see that the old brackets left a lot to be desired in terms of describing what you are looking at. However, the old brackets and pluses and drone xs had this advantage: that they were INSTANTLY discernible. You never had trouble telling apart Concord from player battleships at a gate. You KNEW instantly that it was a drone and not a frigate orbiting you. They were also not blurry to look at. -for the love of god WHY did you take the triangle icon from the Mobile Tractor Unit and make it the frigate icon? I STILL start wondering why MTUs are shooting at me as soon as I see them on grid and I've been playing daily, which you'd think would be enough time to get used to that particularly nefarious change. If you had to reuse that triangle, could you perhaps have put it on something that wasn't piloted by a player? -WRECKS. The extra pixels in wrecks are wholly unnecessary. Again, blurry and harder to make out. I'm sure that's a lot of feedback but I'm really looking forward to reading this blog post. I'm getting cynical already and I'm not nearly old enough to be a bittervet but so far, the response from devs has been so underwhelming that I'm half expecting a post that doesn't address any player concerns at all.
We absolutely do care and player feedback has not been discarded, although hands up we could have been better at replying to this thread.
The blog will be both, why we did it, and after reading your concerns and feedback what we plan to do. We understand that NPC are not distinguishable enough and that is high on our list to improve. We are also looking at drones.
Hopefully the blog will cover your concerns. We will be looking for more feedback like this once we have published it.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
|
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:54:32 -
[1658] - Quote
thumbs up for tracking camera fix +1 this is raising hope |
Steijn
Quay Industries
791
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:55:44 -
[1659] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Iphigeneia wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. And presumably this blog will also explain why player feedback was discarded? I'm greatly interested to hear the answer on that one, as I've been following this thread and it sounds to me as though player reaction has been primarily (not completely or unanimously, however) averse to these new icons, while CCP reaction to feedback has been "we don't care." Now if that's not true I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as a rather new player I'm a bit discouraged that this situation with the icons -- something a lot of people have difficulty with -- will seemingly be glossed over with a "this is why we did it" blog post instead of a "we hear your concerns and this is how we'll fix it" post. The icons are blurry, messy, and make it far more difficult to discern quickly what is in front of me. I too have considered removing the icon tab altogether as not having them, frankly, seems preferable to being bewildered by them. No, I have not scaled my UI to 90% and I still say they are blurry. I play on a 1920 x 1080 resolution screen and daily find myself wishing for the clearness of the old brackets. Instead of mousing over to determine frigate/destroyer, as with the old system, I now find myself mousing over to determine battleship, cruiser, or battlecruiser. Specifically: -Battleship icon does not convey a much larger size vessel than a cruiser/battlecruiser icon. I recognise this one may simply be personal opinion but I keep wanting to think the house shap is a battleship and not a cruiser, just because it "feels" like a larger vessel than that rhomboid shape which is the battleship. -Large Collidable Structure icons are difficult to discern, either in space or in the overview list itself. -The pod icon, most of the structure icons, and the asteroid icons feel like they are cramming too many lines and pixels into far too small of a space, leaving the impression of a blurry mess to my eyes. I realise that my eyes aren't the clearest 20-20 vision but surely you must understand many people play with less than perfect vision. -While the drones icons are quite nice, as are the sun and acceleration gate icons, they too suffer from the too many pixels making it seem blurry issue that I have. -NPCs are NOT easily discerned. I play zoomed out fairly far and when arriving at a gate, I had a rather difficult time telling player battleships apart from the Concord battleships present. Now I know some people will say i merely need to assign colours to players so I can tell them apart from NPCs but really, the previous system of crosses and rectangular brackets worked very well, I do not see why that had to be removed in place of a barely discernible difference as this one is. -I believe in the case of overview icons that less is more. While it's nice that the various types of drones are differentiated, the various sizes of asteroids and ice are indicated, and we get a new icon for corpses ... I don't see that they were necessary. I only need to know whether it is a drone, not what kind of drone; I only need to know that it's an asteroid, I don't need to know it's size. -I can see that the old brackets left a lot to be desired in terms of describing what you are looking at. However, the old brackets and pluses and drone xs had this advantage: that they were INSTANTLY discernible. You never had trouble telling apart Concord from player battleships at a gate. You KNEW instantly that it was a drone and not a frigate orbiting you. They were also not blurry to look at. -for the love of god WHY did you take the triangle icon from the Mobile Tractor Unit and make it the frigate icon? I STILL start wondering why MTUs are shooting at me as soon as I see them on grid and I've been playing daily, which you'd think would be enough time to get used to that particularly nefarious change. If you had to reuse that triangle, could you perhaps have put it on something that wasn't piloted by a player? -WRECKS. The extra pixels in wrecks are wholly unnecessary. Again, blurry and harder to make out. I'm sure that's a lot of feedback but I'm really looking forward to reading this blog post. I'm getting cynical already and I'm not nearly old enough to be a bittervet but so far, the response from devs has been so underwhelming that I'm half expecting a post that doesn't address any player concerns at all. We absolutely do care and player feedback has not been discarded, although hands up we could have been better at replying to this thread. The blog will be both, why we did it, and after reading your concerns and feedback what we plan to do. We understand that NPC are not distinguishable enough and that is high on our list to improve. We are also looking at drones. Hopefully the blog will cover your concerns. We will be looking for more feedback like this once we have published it.
are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
|
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
110
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 11:55:47 -
[1660] - Quote
The old icon's are superior in every single aspect...
Not only that but the red cross was as iconic to eve as many of the ships we have all come to love over the years...
The new systems tries and fails to convey the information needed to properly play this game...
please please please... with sugar on top... revert to the previous overview package.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
674
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:06:02 -
[1661] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. Looking forward to your blog, I think you got the pain points now.... but what I do not understand, why only now? The same quality feedback was given already weeks ago in the SiSi feedback thread. What sense does it make for us to test and give feedback there, if the changes go live anyway unaltered? Please go meet your colleagues working on the map, who acted a lot more clever to survive the field test by making the map optional.
I'm my own NPC alt.
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:11:24 -
[1662] - Quote
CCP: To put my problem with the new UI, both ship/item icons and the new neocom icons, as simply as I can:
I can NOT tell the new ones apart with my peripheral vision, like I could with the old ones. Now, I NEED to focus on the area in question, and this slows me down in an annoying way I cant compensate for.
There is sadly no amount of practice that will get me over that, they all look the same until I focus on them. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:17:48 -
[1663] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: We absolutely do care and player feedback has not been discarded, although hands up we could have been better at replying to this thread.
The blog will be both, why we did it, and after reading your concerns and feedback what we plan to do. We understand that NPC are not distinguishable enough and that is high on our list to improve. We are also looking at drones.
Hopefully the blog will cover your concerns. We will be looking for more feedback like this once we have published it.
Orly? Then why was the only change the "pacman" stargate from the original plan after nearly a months worth of the EXACT SAME feedback while it was on SiSi...i didn't see much response from CCP in the very thread YOU created for this same version while it was on SISi.
If you cared soo much about player feedback, then what exactly did you do for the past 6 weeks after initially receiving said feedback. The only obvious change was the stargates, thats it. Period. There were/are much bigger functionality issues than the look of the pacman stargate. Why did you feel the need to push it anyways, if player feedback was soo important? (and it was begging you to use the 'rapid cadence' to delay it a bit to make it not crappy)
Note also, there were many valid concerns about the previous attempt (ISIS icons) that were still valid problems with the new set, its like you simply covered your ears and ignored ALL of the advice we that spent many hours/days giving you good solid feedback while this stuff was still on SiSi. This wreaks of the same old "we at CCP know better than you, and simply don't believe your feedback."
Best solution would have been to roll them back, THEN have the desired discussions as to how to 'improve' them...as stated before, the utter disregard for any help the player based tried to give you to improve these well before they were pushed to TQ, then after, is the straw that broke my will to continue to pay CCP $400 a year for subscriptions. Sorry, but in your arrogance and pride, not wanting to admit it was bad, when you should have known it, smells of the arrogance that CCP has displayed numerous times in the past, and i refuse to pay my hard earned money to be treated like that repeatedly.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
792
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:39:56 -
[1664] - Quote
funny how CCP can answer a post slagging them off within 15 minutes, but ask them a question and they just ignore you.
I dont like to see any firm go bust, but you deserve to because of your total disregard to the people who pay your wages. |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:45:25 -
[1665] - Quote
Steijn wrote:funny how CCP can answer a post slagging them off within 15 minutes, but ask them a question and they just ignore you.
I dont like to see any firm go bust, but you deserve to because of your total disregard to the people who pay your wages. Someone over there seems to have noticed that tempers in this thread were slowly rising, not cooling off, like they perhaps hoped :) |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
156
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 12:47:39 -
[1666] - Quote
You need more feedback??!! But you have ONLY 83 pages feedbacks.. you need more?!
I will give you one constructive feedback with simple words.
- we don't need your blogs - we DO NOT ask you why you made this changes on the icons - we WANT our old icons BACK |
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
161
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 13:46:44 -
[1667] - Quote
Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no.
Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
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|
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
161
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 13:52:13 -
[1668] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. Looking forward to your blog, I think you got the pain points now.... but what I do not understand, why only now? The same quality feedback was given already weeks ago in the SiSi feedback thread. What sense does it make for us to test and give feedback there, if the changes go live anyway unaltered? Please go meet your colleagues working on the map, who acted a lot more clever to survive the field test by making the map optional.
So we were using feedback on SISI and made changes on individual icons and they did change from the first iteration to the release all based on feedback from SISI.
Perhaps we could and should have done more to address the issues we are now seeing are real issues, we will strive our hardest to make the icons better, at the moment reverting them back is not an option we are considering.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
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DemetRYS
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 13:54:25 -
[1669] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
In other words you value the feeling of you art department over the wishes of you paying customers.
I sincerely hope this is reflected in your company's sales figures. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
158
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 13:55:35 -
[1670] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. Looking forward to your blog, I think you got the pain points now.... but what I do not understand, why only now? The same quality feedback was given already weeks ago in the SiSi feedback thread. What sense does it make for us to test and give feedback there, if the changes go live anyway unaltered? Please go meet your colleagues working on the map, who acted a lot more clever to survive the field test by making the map optional. So we were using feedback on SISI and made changes on individual icons and they did change from the first iteration to the release all based on feedback from SISI. Perhaps we could and should have done more to address the issues we are now seeing are real issues, we will strive our hardest to make the icons better, at the moment reverting them back is not an option we are considering.
Loolll you have soo many like's on your post and I see that a lot of ppl are agree with you!!
|
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Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:08:21 -
[1671] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Iphigeneia wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. And presumably this blog will also explain why player feedback was discarded? I'm greatly interested to hear the answer on that one, as I've been following this thread and it sounds to me as though player reaction has been primarily (not completely or unanimously, however) averse to these new icons, while CCP reaction to feedback has been "we don't care." Now if that's not true I'm happy to be proven wrong, but as a rather new player I'm a bit discouraged that this situation with the icons -- something a lot of people have difficulty with -- will seemingly be glossed over with a "this is why we did it" blog post instead of a "we hear your concerns and this is how we'll fix it" post. The icons are blurry, messy, and make it far more difficult to discern quickly what is in front of me. I too have considered removing the icon tab altogether as not having them, frankly, seems preferable to being bewildered by them. No, I have not scaled my UI to 90% and I still say they are blurry. I play on a 1920 x 1080 resolution screen and daily find myself wishing for the clearness of the old brackets. Instead of mousing over to determine frigate/destroyer, as with the old system, I now find myself mousing over to determine battleship, cruiser, or battlecruiser. Specifically: -Battleship icon does not convey a much larger size vessel than a cruiser/battlecruiser icon. I recognise this one may simply be personal opinion but I keep wanting to think the house shap is a battleship and not a cruiser, just because it "feels" like a larger vessel than that rhomboid shape which is the battleship. -Large Collidable Structure icons are difficult to discern, either in space or in the overview list itself. -The pod icon, most of the structure icons, and the asteroid icons feel like they are cramming too many lines and pixels into far too small of a space, leaving the impression of a blurry mess to my eyes. I realise that my eyes aren't the clearest 20-20 vision but surely you must understand many people play with less than perfect vision. -While the drones icons are quite nice, as are the sun and acceleration gate icons, they too suffer from the too many pixels making it seem blurry issue that I have. -NPCs are NOT easily discerned. I play zoomed out fairly far and when arriving at a gate, I had a rather difficult time telling player battleships apart from the Concord battleships present. Now I know some people will say i merely need to assign colours to players so I can tell them apart from NPCs but really, the previous system of crosses and rectangular brackets worked very well, I do not see why that had to be removed in place of a barely discernible difference as this one is. -I believe in the case of overview icons that less is more. While it's nice that the various types of drones are differentiated, the various sizes of asteroids and ice are indicated, and we get a new icon for corpses ... I don't see that they were necessary. I only need to know whether it is a drone, not what kind of drone; I only need to know that it's an asteroid, I don't need to know it's size. -I can see that the old brackets left a lot to be desired in terms of describing what you are looking at. However, the old brackets and pluses and drone xs had this advantage: that they were INSTANTLY discernible. You never had trouble telling apart Concord from player battleships at a gate. You KNEW instantly that it was a drone and not a frigate orbiting you. They were also not blurry to look at. -for the love of god WHY did you take the triangle icon from the Mobile Tractor Unit and make it the frigate icon? I STILL start wondering why MTUs are shooting at me as soon as I see them on grid and I've been playing daily, which you'd think would be enough time to get used to that particularly nefarious change. If you had to reuse that triangle, could you perhaps have put it on something that wasn't piloted by a player? -WRECKS. The extra pixels in wrecks are wholly unnecessary. Again, blurry and harder to make out. I'm sure that's a lot of feedback but I'm really looking forward to reading this blog post. I'm getting cynical already and I'm not nearly old enough to be a bittervet but so far, the response from devs has been so underwhelming that I'm half expecting a post that doesn't address any player concerns at all. We absolutely do care and player feedback has not been discarded, although hands up we could have been better at replying to this thread. The blog will be both, why we did it, and after reading your concerns and feedback what we plan to do. We understand that NPC are not distinguishable enough and that is high on our list to improve. We are also looking at drones. Hopefully the blog will cover your concerns. We will be looking for more feedback like this once we have published it.
It's all a bit Hegelian Dialectic really.
You just wanted to change something so you created a problem,we reacted and now we'll get a solution that isn't really what we want but it'll be a compromise that you hope will placate us and make us feel like we achieved something when really we just wanted you to leave things as they were.
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
793
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:10:02 -
[1672] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no.
then for me, i no longer have any interest in this thread or game. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:24:49 -
[1673] - Quote
Not to create friction unnecessarily but...
Guys, it's only icons! You gotta keep improving the game, can't stand still. The problem with veteran players is they get in a rut, can't change. CCP can't rest on it's laurels. Any new player at the moment has no idea what old icons your talking about, they just play the game with what they started with. After all, icons just represent what is actually shooting you, no giant mechanic has changed...and there has been a lot of other quality improvements through out the years...that being said, *ahem* Rorqual...
Think of all this as 'Fozzie-sov' for your mind!
lol
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:27:57 -
[1674] - Quote
Thank you CCP for the correction of camera bug.
CCP Claymore, I see in your title you work in quality assurance. Good!, good! In that case, can you tell me when you will correct the poor quality of the Golems skins (Basic skin and Kaalakiota Golem skin) ?
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Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:40:22 -
[1675] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far.
When will the blog published? |
|
CCP Sledgehammer
C C P C C P Alliance
429
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:48:16 -
[1676] - Quote
Ben Zaye wrote:can you tell me when you will correct the poor quality of the Golems skins (Basic skin and Kaalakiota Golem skin) ?
Hi Ben,
Could you be more explicit about what's wrong with the Golem's skins? Can I ask what Shader setting and Texture Quality setting you are using?
Best,
Sledgehammer
Graphical QA Analyst | EVE Quality Assurance | Team TriLambda
|
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DemetRYS
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:52:15 -
[1677] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Not to create friction unnecessarily but... Guys, it's only icons! You gotta keep improving the game, can't stand still. The problem with veteran players is they get in a rut, can't change. CCP can't rest on it's laurels. Any new player at the moment has no idea what old icons your talking about, they just play the game with what they started with. After all, icons just represent what is actually shooting you, no giant mechanic has changed...and there has been a lot of other quality improvements through out the years...that being said, *ahem* Rorqual... Think of all this as 'Fozzie-sov' for your mind! lol
It's about the way CCP treats our complaints about the icons. If they treat us like this over icons just wait and see how they treat us when they make a mess of Sov. It is about how they treat their paying customers, and when I am one of those paying customers then I will damn well make a fuss about it. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
183
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 14:58:25 -
[1678] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: So we were using feedback on SISI and made changes on individual icons and they did change from the first iteration to the release all based on feedback from SISI.
w. t. f.
I'm gna call Bull#$%* on this. The ONLY icon that was changed as a result of the feedback from the SiSi thread was the pac-man stargate. I don't recall any other icon that showed any difference between the SiSi version and the TQ version. But please, correct me if i'm wrong (which in this case i'd love to be). Now, there were alot of 'issues' brought up about certain things having the wrong icons, simply because the first couple versions you had on SiSi didn't even have the full set that you wanted to do yet. Those don't count as "made changes on individual icons...based on feedback". Just be straight with us, please.
In my sig there is a link to said feedback thread...i suggest you go back and read it again. Nearly everything that has been complained about in this thread was brought up in that thread.
CCP Claymore wrote:Perhaps we could and should have done more to address the issues we are now seeing are real issues, we will strive our hardest to make the icons better, at the moment reverting them back is not an option we are considering. So, even with you guys apparently understanding that a majority of your customers, that provide your salary, are saying the new icons have much less functionality than the old. You have made the decision to leave them in their current broken state until you finish polishing what you beleive is a 'better' set (from the same people who gave us this current "better" set in the first place), at which point you say you'll take more feedback. (which you didn't really the first time)
These latest responses just reinforce my desire to spend my hard earned money elsewhere, where i'm not paying you so i can do your testing, then getting ignored because it doesn't make you feel all warm and fuzzy.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
|
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
75
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 15:03:27 -
[1679] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
over 80 pages of complains n thats the anwser ....thats just sad ppl r comin with suggestions and asking for options n ur anwser is just plainsided no really sad the future looks grimm for eve online at least for those who designed the new map they lissend to give the old map as option why not hold a survey n let the ppl vote who play the game ? not like ull lissen anyways cos its seems ur on a stubborn track to do what the eff ever with the silly icons. and again i say the future looks grimm why did these stupid icons get implemented in the first place n why is it so hard to give an option to use the old icons n why is the simple anwser no n why do we have to wait on another dev blog for it? the blog will cover it? what will it cover, more changes extra colours everything to keep the silly icons? the overview was working fine as it was will u re-sub the the simple anwser is no i will cover it in my blog |
Albert Spear
Non scholae sed vitae
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 15:18:37 -
[1680] - Quote
Good icons do not require a guide, key or other method of interpretation. None of the current set fit this requirement for "good". If you read "Tog on Interface" or any of the other classic interface guides, you will find the new icons have gone in the opposite direction of an improvement to an interface.
I now have 4 printed pieces of paper on my wall to tell me what the icons are supposed to mean. I suspect in 6 months I will not have to refer to the paper list.
I took time to learn the old icons (there were fewer of them, and they at least gave me a clue by shape of what I was looking at). They were not great, but these are far worse. I suspect they will add to the barrier to entry to Eve for new players.
I would suggest - no more than 15 basic icons and then use color, density and size to indicate sizes if that is important. Frankly having different sizes of asteroid icons is completely wasted.
Please revert - NOW, not in 6 weeks. Then go back to the drawing board, hire a Bill Fernandez or another real UI guru to help you with a good set of icons. |
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Ben Zaye
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 15:25:44 -
[1681] - Quote
CCP Sledgehammer wrote:Ben Zaye wrote:can you tell me when you will correct the poor quality of the Golems skins (Basic skin and Kaalakiota Golem skin) ?
Hi Ben, Could you be more explicit about what's wrong with the Golem's skins? Can I ask what Shader setting and Texture Quality setting you are using? Best, Sledgehammer
Hello,
Display setup :
Section Display : - Window mode - window size is 1920x1005 - Display adapter is "NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 1 "
Section Effect - All are Enable (x)
Section Graphic setup in the section "Graphic Content Setting " : - HDR and Load Station Env. = Enable (x) - All options (Shader, texture, etc.) = "High" except Anti-aliasing = "Medium"
The problem with the Golem Skins :
The Basic skin and also the new skin "Kaalakiota Golem" are very bad quality. There is too much dust, too worn and scratches on the ship. In addition, the level of detail is quite low enough. That lack of definition.
I tryed to reduce in the game configuration level "Shader Quality" and it does not give anything. The ship is still as ugly and dirty.
We want for the Golem skins the same level of detail and quality that the Cerberus for basic skin and Rook for Kaalakiota skin .
Best |
Circumstantial Evidence
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:10:02 -
[1682] - Quote
I'm reminded of the title of the CCP internal newsletter, "FEARLESS." (I don't know if it's still called this, or even still published - since the Incarna days.) The only constant... is change.
Every time they make major changes to the UI, it causes the player base to go nuts. This episode reminds me of the Unified Inventory change. They did not throw it out, despite strong protests in this forum. They made many little changes until the windows worked better, in some of the biggest complaint scenarios. One of my favorite added features of Unified Inventory, was that I could drop items on a container icon in my local inventory, without opening it first... because all containers on your active ship or in your docked station, are technically open now.
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Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
171
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:18:44 -
[1683] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:1) Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
2) We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them.
3) There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
4) Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far. 1) Apology accepted, hopefully this does not happen again. But it doesn't make sense, I'm sorry. If you followed this topic, why have you not been more vocal and tried to ease our concerns?
2) I understand the time it requires to gather enough data to draw a reasonable conclusion, but as stated above, CCP's communication was abysmal. The results of the meeting better not be disappointing.
3) What? Why do you keep repeating the same mistake all over again? You had a meeting with the CSM last week. Fine. Even if it that was as late as Sunday evening (Eve time) the announcement of a blog coming the next day should have been IMMEDIATELY after that meeting was over, with the blog following on Monday. What is your excuse for the delay? Who is working so slow?
4) What else is there to say? We've got pretty much everything covered. Repetitions are useless. What else do you want to hear? If you expect us to draw mockups... sure. What are we getting for our efforts? I suggest you close this topic after the devblog is out, link to the devblog in first and last post here and use the devblog comments as new feedback topic.
CCP Claymore wrote:5) We absolutely do care and player feedback has not been discarded, although hands up we could have been better at replying to this thread.
6) We understand that NPC are not distinguishable enough and that is high on our list to improve. We are also looking at drones.
5) Yes you could and should have. I for one do not expect the actual developers to spend their time in the forum instead of working. This is what community moderators are for. They go through the stuff, throw together summaries, and present them to the devs in question. Then they reply based on what they get as response from the devs. A working developer should only post when it is necessary. I don't think anyone wants to be coddled by the devs. If you give us useful responses, then we have something to work with. I guess that is what everyone asks for, right? c:
Saying the player feedback has not been discarded is a bit wobbly. You know from the latest sisi feedback topic that things would not turn out well. So the question is, who is "we" in this case? The developer team who has been making the icons? Okay, I give you the benefit of doubt and believe that. So who ELSE was discarding what YOU have been saying? Which manager or producer was ignoring the feedback and concerns coming from their own employees? Of course, some statistic gobblers will say that not enough people gave feedback and not enough people were on sisi to test the changes. I understand this. Solution? Submit the new icons into the client as OPTIONAL BETA FEATURE to receive more feedback. And work on an ingame feedback tool.
6) I hope your difficulties to understand this will be covered in the devblog. I also don't think you are handling this situation very well currently. What should follow right now is a quality assurance of customer feedback. Give us a USEFUL survey to fill out. Ask what people NEED with new icons. To make things quicker and easier for them. I bet most people don't require that many distinctions for drones or cargo containers.
CCP Claymore wrote:8) So we were using feedback on SISI and made changes on individual icons and they did change from the first iteration to the release all based on feedback from SISI.
9) Perhaps we could and should have done more to address the issues we are now seeing are real issues, we will strive our hardest to make the icons better, at the moment reverting them back is not an option we are considering. 8) That sounds like a hard twist on the truth. I only know the pacman stargate was changed, but I'm sure you can prove me wrong. By the way, it STILL looks horrible. Less pacman but more like a square with very round edges. It is not a circle, by no means. If you talk about the previous icons? Oh yes, you listened and changed a lot of them to become the CURRENT release... but you seemed to have misinterpreted the RECENT feedback on Sisi icons, because that one was just as bad. CCP I hate to say this but you are doing a terrible job at communicating. You have to ask more questions. USEFUL questions at that. The more specific you will be, the better answers you will get from us.
9) What are you doing to make sure something like that will not happen again? Why did you not make the icons an optional beta feature? And let me be more clear now: Who is holding the strings on this? Who is forcing these horrible decisions? Who is responsible for disabling proper implementation?
There have been plenty of bad choices made. I do not want to believe that these were solely from your development teams, because that would mean a whole lot of people have no clue about communication, feedback, testing and longevity. Instead, it all seems to point to business and management decisions.
What you should have done: Update overview code for improved options and visibility. Better scaling algorithm and vector based icons OR implementation of additional handcrafted scale sets. Better communication and questions in feedback topics. Making new icons optional beta feature first.
What you did: Force new icons upon us and failing at damage control. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
452
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:20:03 -
[1684] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far.
For the love of BoB, please just give us a switch to check so that we can go back to the old ones if we want.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
41
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:30:05 -
[1685] - Quote
Well there is the answer no we are going to live with these and all of fozzie-sov Never mind that people are leaving null and the game it does not matter... We are looking at 1 thread just the English add the other languages and you know there is a lot more than 85 pages... and we are all being told same crap. I'm not that old of a toon but I do not lke major changes done to something as it is like having a new game to learn.. eyes and headache... They could have made a new game along side of this 1 but they are gonna rebuild it for somes interest... it really reminds me of coke and new coke but they brought back classic coke and within a few months new coke totally died.. when your totally changing a game it makes it hard to find the flow for it or the idea behind it.. with fozzie-sov gonna be a lot of major changes this is why people leaving null and the game.. I look at the stupidity in the changes and see 2 % reduction in players and then add fozzie-sov you may have 5 % drop in players... Oh and who do you think brings new players into the game... I have brought 3 2 are leaving because of changes and game focus shifts... I personally canceled 3 accts and will just wait till someone gets there head out of their *** but to come back idk as when ppl leave you may get 10 % of those back if your lucky this is not baseball |
Blue Harrier
192
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:32:20 -
[1686] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
Thank you, that is all I needed to know, I shall let my last account end at the end of this month and say goodby to Eve.
Thanks to everyone who put up with me over the years and to all fly safe.
Regards, BH
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
453
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:36:50 -
[1687] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
You got to be kidding me. The first thing you need to ask when you set about tinkering with things is why make changes to stuff that is not broken. The second thing you need to ask is if we are going to try to fix something that is not broken anyways then is the result of our efforts better then what we had in the first place. Here, the old icons didnt need fixing in the first place and also are superior by every measurable metric then the new icons. Just give people the choice. You did it with captain quarters. You did it with the map. You guys get to save face since the icons are still introduced, and the players who hate them can still play the game the way they like.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
858
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 16:49:20 -
[1688] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain So could we have a firmer commitment on when that will be?
Because in the interim many of us are left with a markedly worse game and we've already been told that it's not possible to revert out the problem changes because of reasons. |
Nym Doe
Bear Bones Brigade The Bastards.
10
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 17:48:10 -
[1689] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
You have got to be ******* kidding me.
|
Vincent Macalik
Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 17:56:27 -
[1690] - Quote
CCP Claymore, please give us a response about UI scaling and if a fix is coming for 90% scaling not allowing the game to display icons correctly in any playable fashion?
Recuitment Information: Smiles and cupcakes
"You think you have it bad? I pay to play with spreadsheet on an internet spaceship game."
|
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
159
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:08:43 -
[1691] - Quote
Pathetic. The same sh..ts happen with tooltips! No one cares about our opinion at all. Btw CCP why don't you go on SISI and stay there and make what you want and just not come back |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
381
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:16:44 -
[1692] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
I'm sorry, as much as I want to believe you, this seems to be another shell game, and a poorly masked one at that.
We don't want new icons, we don't want feature iteration on the live server; we want the game to be playable now, and for that to happen, the old icons need to be an option. I do not believe you are listening to the majority of feedback here which is by and large clamoring for one thing - the old icons. It should be painfully obvious by how this situation has played out that players are less likely to trust designer judgement when it acts so capriciously and unprofessionally. Why should we trust that the new icons are going to be any better than the current ones? Listening to the players, particularly when they are close to unanimous on the issue, is really the only thing that will please this crowd.
I am sure I am not alone in feeling extremely disappointed about this entire situation.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:36:36 -
[1693] - Quote
Well, I should be careful what I wish for. I wanted a CCP reply to this thread.
We got one, and it amounts to "No, sorry, we will post a blog explaining why you are wrong. Any problems with the new icons lie with the players." |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
173
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:41:55 -
[1694] - Quote
I realized there is a bit of feedback I have not yet been giving. After two weeks of new icons I started to notice an "improvement" on my trader. Or let us call it, a change.
I learned the association that... Monopoly houses and upside-down empty wrecks are potentially bad for me.
Considering I have a combat-salvaging alt, this reverse wrecks being dangerous thing now is very irritating to me. It feels like I'm being poked at by Wreck-zombies. I do like playing Monopoly, but not when those houses get aggressive at me. I fear this new association could impact my fun on the boardgame.
I'm not kidding. I'm dead serious. This is how my brain works. |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
311
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:44:25 -
[1695] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
I don't know where the idea for the need of new icons came from. But lets assume there were some players asking for it (and not some manager who doesn't play the game decided we need something new). It is also obvious with this thread that there are players who want to keep the old icons. So if you really see the need for new icons to satisfy those assumed players asking for it the only valid option would have been to implement a system that supports different set of icon. Any claims that your code base and/or architecture don't support that are lame excuses and need to be addressed by you before breaking a well working feature for large parts of the player base. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
119
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 18:55:26 -
[1696] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
So... That's the answer we get after nearly 2 weeks of howling for at least an option to use the old icons.
Action: Unwillingness to give your paying customers what's needed, choices.
Reaction: When this account goes inactive at the end of the month, I'll get by with the occasional 30 day Trial account. No more of my cash in your Wallet. My entertainment dollar will go to where it will give a better return with less skull pain and customer service frustration. No more buying Aurum, Plex, or any other CCP product or release.
You win, CCP. It's your sandbox, this relatively new player will leave you to your vanity project just like you obviously want.
>Jeven
PATHETIC
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:15:43 -
[1697] - Quote
Oh my....
Platitudes and notifications about meetings to organise meetings doesn't really address the issue...
The old icons worked, no player I know was screaming for a change in the overview icons, for that matter no one was screaming for changing the neocom icons either...
You tested the new icons on SISI, binned the feedback only to now claim the issues raised are real since releasing the icons on to TQ, and burdening the player base with your poor development...
I would suggest, the best action would be to reinstate the old icons until you have worked through the issues as using TQ as your Beta testing is taking the micky to be quite frank...
Roll your necks in, cut the BS and overdrive by PR dept on social media, and fix the issue.... Scrap the deployment of new icons on TQ, as you clearly haven't thought this through... You are trying to make a one size hat to fit all, which has led to clutter, confusion, medical issues, poor graphics etc etc etc...
Don't leave these icons in game any longer than you need to return to old icon set....
This whole episode seems to typify current CCP blue sky thinking which is ruining what was a very good game.....
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
384
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:15:45 -
[1698] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Perhaps we could and should have done more to address the issues we are now seeing are real issues, we will strive our hardest to make the icons better, at the moment reverting them back is not an option we are considering.
Iteration is a great way to make progress, or to make something new and better. Sure, you have to try things and take risks if you want to progress. Inevitably, many ideas and lots of effort to see that happen will fail - horribly and hilariously. That is the risk and excitement of iteration.
We, the players, challenge you. What works in a controlled environment, or for some group of players, does not for others and produces layers of complaints and rage. If I was a high sec player, or spent most of my time in huge fleets, these icon changes would affect me far less. Here's the challenge; one simple tickbox such that all new icons are 'beta'; just like the map. You can iterate away to your hearts content, and when people finally start using the new ones over the old ones, you will know you will have succeeded, and, in the mean time, not have created a huge amount of friction with your player base.
The sound team gets it. Don't like a sound? No problem! The graphics team gets it. Good work by the way, looks fantastic! The New map gets it. It is aspirant yet humble.
This incident and many others give the overwhelming impression that the UI team does not get it. Options, customizability, usability, and get this, real iteration where failure is allowed. You are giving the impression that you will not allow failure, when by definition, iteration includes discarding failures, even if large amounts of time were put into creating it. Projects can and should be allowed to fail; to not allow this is to choke on pride and not understand what makes iteration such a good thing. Crony-Iteration is what we seem to have, as you aren't letting bad ideas fail.
Again, we the players CHALLENGE you to actually use the concept of iteration here, and that quite clearly involves tossing this set entirely, or at least allowing us to use the old one until this is usable. If you really get iteration, you can accept the fact that you may have to start all over again.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:18:35 -
[1699] - Quote
I'd go and shoot the monument in Jita but i can't work out which icon it is |
gargars
The Tebo Corp
141
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:24:39 -
[1700] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:
Perhaps we could and should have done more to address the issues we are now seeing are real issues....
I find this extremely insulting. You had mountains of this same exact feedback on the icons when they were on sisi and you asked for our feedback, and said you were listening to it.
Then here you say only now do you see there are "real issues"? Meaning none of us brought up anything valid before or you just blew it off?
Now again you say you are all listening and taking in our feedback. I fail to see how, and why should we trust that this time?
I am sorry I am usually very sympathetic, but time and again, year after year, everytime something blows up in their face CCP says the same thing...
WE SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO THE PLAYERBASE - and NEXT TIME WE WILL DO BETTER
It's gotten very old. |
|
Sere O'Asis
Origin Stories
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:29:17 -
[1701] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
As it stands now, this game is unplayable for me, unless I stay docked in the station.
It is not as many have suggested an unwillingness to learn new icons, anyone who plays EVE for any length of time is willing to learn.
Simply put, the new icons, as far as my vision is concerned, are out of focus; and the constant strain on my eyes of trying to identify/define/categorize such poorly imaged visuals literally causes me pain.
The new icons need to be legible, in the traditional sense of that word, for all game users. Simplifying the number of icons will not produce the visual clarity that is currently lacking.
I have started looking for a new game to play.
And, I am sorry about that. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
122
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:32:23 -
[1702] - Quote
Eke Patang wrote:I'd go and shoot the monument in Jita but i can't work out which icon it is
Under this icon messiness and migraine inducing new setup, it'll be something from either: Space Invaders, Monopoly, Astrosmash, daycare crayon time, or RL Military Stars Bars Rockers Chevrons and Pips. Don't ask which country and branch is the reference, I dunno.
Now to figure out the brainstorm file 'Jita monuments' are under to find the correct cross reference.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
122
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:34:47 -
[1703] - Quote
Sere O'Asis wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM. As it stands now, this game is unplayable for me, unless I stay docked in the station. It is not as many have suggested an unwillingness to learn new icons, anyone who plays EVE for any length of time is willing to learn. Simply put, the new icons, as far as my vision is concerned, are out of focus; and the constant strain on my eyes of trying to identify/define/categorize such poorly imaged visuals literally causes me pain. The new icons need to be legible, in the traditional sense of that word, for all game users. Simplifying the number of icons will not produce the visual clarity that is currently lacking. I have started looking for a new game to play. And, I am sorry about that.
Know anything about this Elite:Dangerous I keep hearing mentions of? If the lack of icon choice is still going on at the beginning of the month, it's find another space based MMO for my dollars.
Don't want to leave, but I can't 'get used' to the physical pain going on.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
796
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:45:25 -
[1704] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Know anything about this Elite:Dangerous I keep hearing mentions of? If the lack of icon choice is still going on at the beginning of the month, it's find another space based MMO for my dollars.
Don't want to leave, but I can't 'get used' to the physical pain going on.
>Jeven
ED for me, is good because i grew up with the original on a CBM64 and joined the Kickstarter at a very early stage. However, it is NOT Eve and anyone moving over thinking that it is, could well be disappointed. |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
312
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 19:46:42 -
[1705] - Quote
Eke Patang wrote:I'd go and shoot the monument in Jita but i can't work out which icon it is
Maybe that was the whole masterplan: - introduce crappy new icons so no player is able to find the monument - break more stuff in the next patches - no players shooting to monument means everyone is happy - ??? - profit |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
124
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 20:03:53 -
[1706] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Know anything about this Elite:Dangerous I keep hearing mentions of? If the lack of icon choice is still going on at the beginning of the month, it's find another space based MMO for my dollars.
Don't want to leave, but I can't 'get used' to the physical pain going on.
>Jeven ED for me, is good because i grew up with the original on a CBM64 and joined the Kickstarter at a very early stage. However, it is NOT Eve and anyone moving over thinking that it is, could well be disappointed.
I won't complain about any space based game not being an Eve clone. It might be a nice relaxation to not be on hair trigger 'unknown in my personal flight bubble check Bio and security rating and Corp info and kill it with fire!' all the time while playing.
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 20:04:54 -
[1707] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:*snip*
This incident and many others give the overwhelming impression that the UI team does not get it. I agree with your entire post, just taking this line as an interesting statement to... "Iterate" on *snickers*
You said the Map team gets it, which is (mostly) correct. Even though they made the mistake of making the new map default, and even though they are slacking on improvements, the old one is still there. The new map is still very flawed in a lot of aspects, but at least we have the choice to opt out of it.
Now, what is Interesting to know is... the same team that did the new map also did the OPPORTUNITIES. Opportunities have never exactly been on opt-in and it got a very mindboggling way of "testing". Many concerns have been voiced, but have been ignored. CCP clings to statistics which provide false positives and reads them completely out of context in regards to opportunities. Now they are live since over a month, and things are still terrible.
Again, let us think about it. Starmap: optional. Opportunities: not. Team: same. I am not convinced enough to look at what other changes the team with the icons did, maybe someone else will do it. It would be interesting to see if there are other strange shifts like that visible.
It smells more and more like bad management decisions, but this is of course still only speculation. |
Circumstantial Evidence
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 20:16:26 -
[1708] - Quote
Eke Patang wrote:I'd go and shoot the monument in Jita but i can't work out which icon it is lol. That was a dramatic manifestation of the 2011 'Summer of Rage,' that the current level of protest over this change has not reached. I was surprised when CCP permanently wrecked the monument. They didn't have to. How many companies would cement an acknowledgement of a public relations fiasco into their game, for all time? |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
33
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 20:32:56 -
[1709] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Eke Patang wrote:I'd go and shoot the monument in Jita but i can't work out which icon it is lol. That was a dramatic manifestation of the 2011 'Summer of Rage,' that the current level of protest over this change has not reached. I was surprised when CCP permanently wrecked the monument. They didn't have to. How many companies would cement an acknowledgement of a public relations fiasco into their game, for all time?
At least back then you could open ship fitting and still spin
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
176
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 20:59:13 -
[1710] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Eke Patang wrote:I'd go and shoot the monument in Jita but i can't work out which icon it is lol. That was a dramatic manifestation of the 2011 'Summer of Rage,' that the current level of protest over this change has not reached. I was surprised when CCP permanently wrecked the monument. They didn't have to. How many companies would cement an acknowledgement of a public relations fiasco into their game, for all time?
I remember the summer of rage indeed. However I was always disappointed to hear that CCP seems to have thought that incarna was a bad idea. I quite liked the IDEA of incarna, just.. it promised a whole world, and delivered: one room, microtransaction flavored.. NOT what I expected after the massive hype they had going around it.
Similarly now, CCP has seemed to notice the rising tempers, but I'm really not sure they realize WHY. I guess that blog post will tell if they understand the reason why we are not happy. Or perhaps that post will be a huge mess that misses the point entirely.
Here is a small hint: it's a form vs function issue. The new neocom, new map, and new icons. All very pretty yes.. but less functional, and much harder to use when you are in a hurry. |
|
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 21:33:03 -
[1711] - Quote
Dear CCP...
Trust me when i say this...
No matter how much you try and polish the turd that is the new Icons you'll only end up with a slightly shinier turd...
Swallow your pride and roll back these unwanted changes...
We shall love you for it. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
783
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 21:35:24 -
[1712] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:I realized there is a bit of feedback I have not yet been giving. After two weeks of new icons I started to notice an "improvement" on my trader. Or let us call it, a change.
I learned the association that... Monopoly houses and upside-down empty wrecks are potentially bad for me.
Considering I have a combat-salvaging alt, this reverse wrecks being dangerous thing now is very irritating to me. It feels like I'm being poked at by Wreck-zombies. I do like playing Monopoly, but not when those houses get aggressive at me. I fear this new association could impact my fun on the boardgame.
I'm not kidding. I'm dead serious. This is how my brain works.
Rats are red, wrecks are not. And you should probably already have overviews for wrecks only and rats only anyway. Set all player ships to have a background color of your choice. Then you can't possibly get them mixed up with wrecks either.
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
783
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 21:39:55 -
[1713] - Quote
Eraza wrote: Last but not least, thank you CCP, for letting me turn off the new map. As pretty as it is,(and I really like it for that) it's just not as fast to navigate, and horrible for scanning last I tried.. Thanks for the option :)
I have no issues with the Neocom. And the overview icons don't bother me much either. But using the new map to do my probing... ugh. If the new map were forced on us, I'd probably be unsubbing like many people in this thread.
|
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 21:46:19 -
[1714] - Quote
Lexiana Del'Amore wrote:Dear CCP...
Trust me when i say this...
No matter how much you try and polish the turd that is the new Icons you'll only end up with a slightly shinier turd...
Swallow your pride and roll back these unwanted changes...
We shall love you for it.
You took the turd right out of my mouth ... thank you! |
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
79
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 21:59:39 -
[1715] - Quote
Less pretty things more functionality its just that simple how many more complains till it sinks thru??? but no seems like u are all on som special kinda quest wich isnt told to us n we just get blown off no switchin icons is not an option why not?
and seriously we need to wait on another dev blog just to hear more changes on already crappy icons? why not just be straight up we need these icons because ... why? we need a different icon for every different asteroid can wreck drone because ... why? we need to make frigs look like mtu's because....why? we dont need to make different icons for player n npc ships or concord it dont matter if we recognize it fast enuff because .....why? we will ask for feedback in a blog n then tottally discard all feedback because ...why? if players ask for option or reverting to classic we just say no because ....why?
stop turning everything into one big joke
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
126
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 22:02:40 -
[1716] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Lexiana Del'Amore wrote:Dear CCP...
Trust me when i say this...
No matter how much you try and polish the turd that is the new Icons you'll only end up with a slightly shinier turd...
Swallow your pride and roll back these unwanted changes...
We shall love you for it. You took the turd right out of my mouth ... thank you!
Part of a Jeff Dunham and Peanut skit.
Jeff: They're been renovating, updating, renewing...! Peanut: Polish a turd, it's still a turd!
Sums up the new icons, along with the shiny pretteh Beta Map that's unusable for much of Anything. At least there we are given that option.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 22:06:29 -
[1717] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Eraza wrote: Last but not least, thank you CCP, for letting me turn off the new map. As pretty as it is,(and I really like it for that) it's just not as fast to navigate, and horrible for scanning last I tried.. Thanks for the option :)
I have no issues with the Neocom. And the overview icons don't bother me much either. But using the new map to do my probing... ugh. If the new map were forced on us, I'd probably be unsubbing like many people in this thread. You know, this makes me think, if we had options for the icons, and the neocom, there would be no fury over this. The people that like the new, use it, and CCP can gather much more useful feedback, on those features, because the people giving feedback, would be a lot more neutral, instead of angry.
At the moment, I find all three new UI features flawed, in similar ways, but notice that I'm not angry, or even annoyed, at the map. It's an even bigger dealbreaker, in some instances, and yet, thanks to one little tickbo, all my issues with the new map become tiny.
It's probably easier said than done to put that tickbox in, but the feedback on the new map, is a lot calmer isn't it? And I'm willing to bet, a lot more useful because of that :)
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
176
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 22:24:37 -
[1718] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Rats are red, wrecks are not. You understood little of my post. Please do not try to make interpretations that are incorrect. Player ships are not red. And only because wrecks are not on my overview does not make the old associations go away. Destroyers still are reversed wrecks.
I'm glad you don't have issues with the Neocom and the overview, don't get me wrong. That does not make the problems of a significant amount of people go away though.
I'm still clicking wrongly on Notepad and contracts more often than I care to admit. I understand why the entire monochrome design started, in order to make fancy transparency settings depending on which colour preset was chosen. The conceptual idea in itself is okay, and I got used to most of the new Neocom. That does not mean I liked the fixed coloured images of the old one better. Granted, some of the old images haven't been as great, especially in the station services. I enjoy more space in station panel, but some icons still are weird guesses.
The Neocom and the station overview changes were a sidegrade for me. Some things better, some things worse. The removal of customizable colour themes was a straight downgrade for me. But it was a downgrade I could deal with, since it was not game breaking.
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Set all player ships to have a background color of your choice. Then you can't possibly get them mixed up with wrecks either. Why should I clutter my overview with a workaround because the icons are not working as intended? It will not change anything in the long run. And again, you're not connecting the dots correctly here.
Eraza wrote:It's probably easier said than done to put that tickbox in, but the feedback on the new map, is a lot calmer isn't it? And I'm willing to bet, a lot more useful because of that :) This is very true, yes. A lot more feedback came rolling in when they changed the new map to the default map, but people were not remotely as angry as the icon fiasco since they could still revert to the old map.
Imagine with Aegis they would remove the old one completely while doing as little improvement as they did in Carnyx. The outrage would be real. |
Hard Carnt
The Vendunari End of Life
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:01:27 -
[1719] - Quote
CCP Claymore if you do not give at least the option to use old icons i will be unsubbing my 4accounts |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:22:44 -
[1720] - Quote
Why doesn't CCP make several custom EvE's to appease everyone...that's got to be resource efficient. The client would only be a 5 terrabyte download...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
|
DemetRYS
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:42:56 -
[1721] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Why doesn't CCP make several custom EvE's to appease everyone?...that's got to be resource efficient. The client would only be a 5 terrabyte download... It would contain: EvE Origional EvE Classic EvE Lite EvE Deluxe EvE Student EvE Quafe Edition EvE Adult Version EvE Simplified (Old Icons) EvE Marriage Pack EvE Jukebox EvE Sov Limited Edition (Comes with a CCP Fozzie shirt) EvE Pony Mod (Instead of spaceships we fly multi-colored unicorns)
Or maybe they shouldn't "fix" what isn't broken and do provide a product that their paying customers want to buy. Then they won't go out of business like all the other MMO publishers that didn't care about market demands. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:47:15 -
[1722] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Why doesn't CCP make several custom EvE's to appease everyone?...that's got to be resource efficient. The client would only be a 5 terrabyte download... No wonder your previous 3 posts full of obnoxious and blatantly wrong content have not received any credit. 5 Terrabyte? What? Current client is 20GB big at worst. So your facts backing up thi-... oh wait. You have none since you have no idea what takes how much space on the disk and fail pretty hard at sarcasm too.
And your previous slandering of Veterans... generalizing them into a giant group of change resistance people by default... not very mature. You are not in a corporation with new players, so you can't really talk about anything in regards to the new icons affecting new players first hand. So please, don't talk about something you have no clue about, thank you c:
I'm curious how many more posts of you will follow where you thoroughly continue to embarrass yourself? I would be placing bets but... that would be just as wasteful as placing bounties. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:51:58 -
[1723] - Quote
Well, guess my point didn't get across...I enjoyed writing my last post, as much as you all enjoyed reading it....
lol
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
460
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:53:30 -
[1724] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Why doesn't CCP make several custom EvE's to appease everyone?...that's got to be resource efficient. The client would only be a 5 terrabyte download... It would contain: EvE Origional EvE Classic EvE Lite EvE Deluxe EvE Student EvE Quafe Edition EvE Adult Version EvE Simplified (Old Icons) EvE Marriage Pack EvE Jukebox EvE Sov Limited Edition (Comes with a CCP Fozzie shirt) EvE Pony Mod (Instead of spaceships we fly multi-colored unicorns)
No they only need to make one version that people actually want to play. Its prime time USA now and there are less then 20k logged in. It didnt used to be like this. And it is imo no coincidence that declining concurrent users is happening in direct conjunction with CCP's messing with core game play; fixing things that werent broken.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:53:47 -
[1725] - Quote
First, CCP Claymore, thank you for coming back to the thread!
Second:
Rio Bravo wrote:Not to create friction unnecessarily but... Guys, it's only icons! You gotta keep improving the game, can't stand still. The problem with veteran players is they get in a rut, can't change. CCP can't rest on it's laurels. Any new player at the moment has no idea what old icons your talking about, they just play the game with what they started with. After all, icons just represent what is actually shooting you, no giant mechanic has changed...and there has been a lot of other quality improvements through out the years...that being said, *ahem* Rorqual... Think of all this as 'Fozzie-sov' for your mind! lol
It's not the mechanic, it's the limitations of the human body that this change has run afoul of. We can't change our bodies on a six-week schedule to focus that much more on problematic icons, and furthermore, it's widely seen that even those that can see the icons have not been able to use them as well as the old icons. Many of us have just given up trying to explain that because we thought CCP had set the thread to ignore. CCP Claymore's reply helps correct that perception.
It feels like if CCP were to introduce a change that wiped your hard drive's boot-up directions, that there'd be 'CCP defenders' telling us why we should be happy with that change.
|
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
156
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:55:11 -
[1726] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Why doesn't CCP make several custom EvE's to appease everyone?...that's got to be resource efficient. The client would only be a 5 terrabyte download... It would contain: EvE Origional EvE Classic EvE Lite EvE Deluxe EvE Student EvE Quafe Edition EvE Adult Version EvE Simplified (Old Icons) EvE Marriage Pack EvE Jukebox EvE Sov Limited Edition (Comes with a CCP Fozzie shirt) EvE Pony Mod (Instead of spaceships we fly multi-colored unicorns)
EVE Quafe Sov Pony edition? (I don't want to know about any Adult Pony version, thank you very much!)
|
Ex Ira
MSCS Corpore
11
|
Posted - 2015.06.16 23:57:41 -
[1727] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
Thanks for confirming that you don't care about your customers opinions. Congratulations, I will not resub my accounts, I'd rather trash my money.
Was fun flying with you all, I hope we meet back in some other game :'( Two more weeks and then farewell EVE, I hoped it would last for a couple more years. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 00:09:42 -
[1728] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Its prime time USA now and there are less then 20k logged in. It didnt used to be like this. And it is imo no coincidence that declining concurrent users is happening in direct conjunction with CCP's messing with core game play While all of the quoted is true, and we even had several thousand players more at the peak counter in the first half of 2014, the highest population since the birth of downtime was always at around 7 to 8 pm eve time. Not midnight eve time, which is more suited in the average counter. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 00:11:14 -
[1729] - Quote
Gee...I think I understand now! CCP obviously the icons you implemented in the game are too 'mind fugging' for our player base to handle! I think you might have misread them. The strain you imposed, is probably going to take years of therapy to recover from ... After all, not all of us can adjust to such shocks. Some peoples attempts to visually grasp stylized ship symbols is verging on brain damage! Maybe they are right, and we should roll back the new icons to the old...I don't want to be the only pilot flying around in New Eden.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
132
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 00:30:44 -
[1730] - Quote
Friendship is the bestest ship, so let's get some likes to someone that's a little rear end sore he's not racking them up with his snark attempts. Come on, show Rio Bravo some threadnaught luvs, riiiight? Don't want to leave him out of ending up with a target painted on their toon once they login! That's bad form.
If you come to a snark fight, better bring something with more pew than what you've shown thus far.
The icons, for some, are not anything that can be 'gotten used to' due to vision limitations. Unless someone plans to spring for Lasic surgery and a new monitor for all in visual impairment living, a choice of using the old icons would give CCP time to figure out their new design is, for many paying customers, a serious failfit.
If they can roll back an update to return our 'Vanity Titles' in corporation settings, give an option to use the new or old Map, what is so difficult and server space consuming to allow an option on this front??? It's not like this is an entire sub-program to reload.
Pointing to numbers in a usage spreadsheet is cheating when there Are No Other Options. It's like winning a one person drag race. Useless data to back up a wounded pride refusal to give what's needed by the ones paying your bills. Suck it up, admit there was an oopsie in blatantly ignoring the feedback from Sisi, and give that option to use the old ones. Some creative ideas just don't do so well once out in the field. It happens. Not owning it, that's blinders set to 100%. Mebbe 90% if you use that scale.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 00:37:09 -
[1731] - Quote
I like the Icons. CCP keep them please.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 00:51:31 -
[1732] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Gee...I think I understand now! CCP obviously the icons you implemented in the game are too 'mind fugging' for our player base to handle! I think you might have misread them. The strain you imposed, is probably going to take years of therapy to recover from ... After all, not all of us can adjust to such shocks. Some peoples attempts to visually grasp stylized ship symbols is verging on brain damage! Maybe they are right, and we should roll back the new icons to the old...I don't want to be the only pilot flying around in New Eden.
In the midst of your sarcasm you may have just subconsciously had your own epiphany.
If you substitute brain damage with eye damage and then also realise that a good percentage of the player base are of a mature age with all the degradation that age brings and add to that those born with impairments such as colour blindness etc etc,you may just begin to get it.
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 01:49:18 -
[1733] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Friendship is the bestest ship, so let's get some likes to someone that's a little rear end sore he's not racking them up with his snark attempts. Come on, show Rio Bravo some threadnaught luvs, riiiight? Don't want to leave him out of ending up with a target painted on their toon once they login! That's bad form.
If you come to a snark fight, better bring something with more pew than what you've shown thus far.
The icons, for some, are not anything that can be 'gotten used to' due to vision limitations. Unless someone plans to spring for Lasic surgery and a new monitor for all in visual impairment living, a choice of using the old icons would give CCP time to figure out their new design is, for many paying customers, a serious failfit.
If they can roll back an update to return our 'Vanity Titles' in corporation settings, give an option to use the new or old Map, what is so difficult and server space consuming to allow an option on this front??? It's not like this is an entire sub-program to reload.
Pointing to numbers in a usage spreadsheet is cheating when there Are No Other Options. It's like winning a one person drag race. Useless data to back up a wounded pride refusal to give what's needed by the ones paying your bills. Suck it up, admit there was an oopsie in blatantly ignoring the feedback from Sisi, and give that option to use the old ones. Some creative ideas just don't do so well once out in the field. It happens. Not owning it, that's blinders set to 100%. Mebbe 90% if you use that scale.
>Jeven
I don't post for likes. I post when I see people being wierd. People unsubbing and so forth over icons is weird. The whole violin solo of 'please keep EvE wheel chair accessible', is kind of weird too. If you don't have the health to play EvE, maybe take a pottery class and leave our game alone. The 'developers' have to 'develop' the game to keep it young, fresh, and more vibrant as time goes on...maybe get a new pop bottle prescription if it helps you identify ships better. This is not a game made for the vision or comprehension impared. So when I snark, it's in defence of the people who bring us the game, against the people who treat design and dev hours like it's nothing. I am just sick of pouting, conniption birds, tantrums, and kermit flailing over icons. Thought humor might work to demonstrate the absurdity, but maybe the Adderall and Ritalin inhibits people getting the irony, idk...
I keep smiling!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Torxx Maxx
Almost Human.
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 02:36:13 -
[1734] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey everyone,
Apologies for the silence about the icons but we have been following this thread with great interest.
We have been listening to your feedback and discussing where to go from here. We had a very productive meeting with the CSM last week about the current icon situation and the release of them. There will be a blog coming out once we have dotted the i's and crossed the t's where we will explain why we changed them and improvements we plan to implement from the feedback received on this thread.
Please keep giving us the constructive feedback you have supplied so far.
I'm gonna call that we will forever be forced to use those horrid icons and there will be no option to use the old much better icons so I'm prolly out for good.
The new icons can't be improved they need to go the ph.uck away..!! |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
544
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 02:43:16 -
[1735] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Friendship is the bestest ship, so let's get some likes to someone that's a little rear end sore he's not racking them up with his snark attempts. Come on, show Rio Bravo some threadnaught luvs, riiiight? Don't want to leave him out of ending up with a target painted on their toon once they login! That's bad form.
If you come to a snark fight, better bring something with more pew than what you've shown thus far.
The icons, for some, are not anything that can be 'gotten used to' due to vision limitations. Unless someone plans to spring for Lasic surgery and a new monitor for all in visual impairment living, a choice of using the old icons would give CCP time to figure out their new design is, for many paying customers, a serious failfit.
If they can roll back an update to return our 'Vanity Titles' in corporation settings, give an option to use the new or old Map, what is so difficult and server space consuming to allow an option on this front??? It's not like this is an entire sub-program to reload.
Pointing to numbers in a usage spreadsheet is cheating when there Are No Other Options. It's like winning a one person drag race. Useless data to back up a wounded pride refusal to give what's needed by the ones paying your bills. Suck it up, admit there was an oopsie in blatantly ignoring the feedback from Sisi, and give that option to use the old ones. Some creative ideas just don't do so well once out in the field. It happens. Not owning it, that's blinders set to 100%. Mebbe 90% if you use that scale.
>Jeven Unfortunately your so right, the minority who believe CCP can do no wrong really should be avoided at all costs. They generally offer no feedback other than, CCP is right and we should all be happy.
-- - -- - -- - -- - -- It is a shame everyone who is complaining about the changes in game don't post on the forums - This thread would be a true threadnaught and be hundreds of pages by now. So many players (rightly it seems) believe they have no voice when it comes to changes in the game, at the end of the day CCP will do what CCP wants, regardless of how it affects the player base.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
464
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 03:02:33 -
[1736] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Friendship is the bestest ship, so let's get some likes to someone that's a little rear end sore he's not racking them up with his snark attempts. Come on, show Rio Bravo some threadnaught luvs, riiiight? Don't want to leave him out of ending up with a target painted on their toon once they login! That's bad form.
If you come to a snark fight, better bring something with more pew than what you've shown thus far.
The icons, for some, are not anything that can be 'gotten used to' due to vision limitations. Unless someone plans to spring for Lasic surgery and a new monitor for all in visual impairment living, a choice of using the old icons would give CCP time to figure out their new design is, for many paying customers, a serious failfit.
If they can roll back an update to return our 'Vanity Titles' in corporation settings, give an option to use the new or old Map, what is so difficult and server space consuming to allow an option on this front??? It's not like this is an entire sub-program to reload.
Pointing to numbers in a usage spreadsheet is cheating when there Are No Other Options. It's like winning a one person drag race. Useless data to back up a wounded pride refusal to give what's needed by the ones paying your bills. Suck it up, admit there was an oopsie in blatantly ignoring the feedback from Sisi, and give that option to use the old ones. Some creative ideas just don't do so well once out in the field. It happens. Not owning it, that's blinders set to 100%. Mebbe 90% if you use that scale.
>Jeven I don't post for likes. I post when I see people being wierd. People unsubbing and so forth over icons is weird. The whole violin solo of 'please keep EvE wheel chair accessible', is kind of weird too. If you don't have the health to play EvE, maybe take a pottery class and leave our game alone. The 'developers' have to 'develop' the game to keep it young, fresh, and more vibrant as time goes on...maybe get a new pop bottle prescription if it helps you identify ships better. This is not a game made for the vision or comprehension impared. So when I snark, it's in defence of the people who bring us the game, against the people who treat design and dev hours like it's nothing. I am just sick of pouting, conniption birds, tantrums, and kermit flailing over icons. Thought humor might work to demonstrate the absurdity, but maybe the Adderall and Ritalin inhibits people getting the irony, idk... I keep smiling!
You know things are bad when the fanbois have to come out to white knight CCP's obviously broken stuff
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
89
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 03:03:06 -
[1737] - Quote
CCP,
This is sadly a case of too little far too late. If you had responded like this initially you might have had a shot, but at this point, people have started to head out the door in disgust over yet another blatant case of CCP not caring about customer opinion. This isn't some metagame related issue either tied to the petty politics which hit a given segment of the player base, this is core game functionality that impacted everyone every time they undocked.
All four of my accounts were canceled, two have already expired and it will be a long time (if ever) before I fire everything up again.
If you really want to make amends you need to: 1. Swallow your pride (reinsert after each following step) 2. Admit the idea was well intended but horribly implemented. 3. Admit you were wrong to ignore test server feedback. 4. Admit you were wrong to force a knowingly broken (ie defective) product onto paying customers. 5. Admit you were wrong to ignore feedback after the release. 6. Admit you were wrong to be so slow in any form of response even after you finally realized there was an issue. 7. Admit you are wrong to try to continue to force us down this path with a long and drawn out incremental minor fix and twitch approach. 8. And to prove you are sincere: Refund players for the broken time they got tricked into funding for your failed and knowingly broken beta test (i.e. the # of days from the time accounts were canceled until the accounts finally expired. or at the very least give them that many days back onto their accounts after you eventually fix this issue.)
I will check in a few more times (but will be unable to post) to see what the almighty Dev Blog has to say. Suffice to say that if that doesn't have a proper fix action identified I will not bother checking in anymore, and I will only find out about any eventual change from any friends who happen to stick around, if any do.
GL and GH everyone. |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
200
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 03:05:11 -
[1738] - Quote
As much as i hste hate HATE the new icons,
Ima gona say they have been and will continue to be worth it. Worth what?
Seeing ccp so totally fail yet again.
Remember the articles on Icelanders and studies of they bwing masculine and argumentative and stubborn. Likw durring summer of rage and greed is good?
I remember reading psychology articles and people from iceland honestly saying its a CULTURE thing. Thats just how their culture is i guess.
Its like admitting you were wrong is a punishment worth than death or anything else ever.
Somehow walking around with egg on your face and being mocked is kosher though???
Guys you goofed up, no biggie. Listen to us, learn for next time. This can be saved, (bearly) |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
201
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 03:07:07 -
[1739] - Quote
Btw all the dudes quiting, letting account lapse...
Please lemme bum some isk before you go? Just few hundred mill please guys. Ill keep up the good fight in your absence. Please |
MavnGoose
Valkyrie.
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 03:46:32 -
[1740] - Quote
In life the biggest cause of relationship failures is one party not listening to the others needs, or willing to compromise towards their wants so everyone can be happy. When this occurs it is trrribly sad as the other person is left to either A) end that relationship, deal with the pain and look to build a healthy relationship with someone else or B) continue to perservere putting up with the pain exertion and frustration of dealing with expectations not met.
Im sorry CCP but yourr not listening to our needs or willing to compromise towards our wants (option for either set of icons durrrr). So in that light this relationship is no longer healthy, I can see nothing but pain and frustration with little reward in our future. I must end this relationship and move on, I deserve better and I don't feel you love me anymore, you just love the idea of us. I hope with time, you can forgive me for leaving and we can just remember the good times we shared.
I wont forget you,
Mavn.
P.S Star Citizen Im free this friday wanna come over and watch netflix? |
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Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
140
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 03:49:09 -
[1741] - Quote
Giggling. White Knight fanboi gets poked by gamer chick. Squeak! Throws in subtle comment that 'wheelchair' players need not play. Classy. I smell paid (in some manner) shill.
+=+=+=+
Now back to actual constructive commenting.
If it's such a massive deal to roll them back, then just put an option to use the old icons. That is already in place for the Map. Come on, split the difference, let the spreadsheet numbers from that point give your Honest feedback in their uses, and work from there. That way those of the 'old guard icons' have their toys, those of the 'shiny new icons' can keep them and be happy. Furious posting falls off, suggestions become less rage and more constructive, you stand a chance of getting back some of those already un-subbed and those about to become inactive accounts.
With this kind of irritation already in place, do you Really want to push through all of the Sov changes when there's so much at the basic level still in need of help? Like that Beta Map, the Notification Tab that's still buggy, the Launcher that is unreliable, etc.?
As I have stated, I don't want to leave. But I won't subject myself to physical pain (thin costly lenses in the glasses only go so far) for A Game.
Please CCP, just give the frikken option to choose which set we can use, and save the larger trouble coming down the pipe if this is the attitude you plan to take until another Summer of Rage and Incarna 2.0 explodes in your faces. There's probably a bit of a culture difference from here in the States to life on Iceland. Sorry, that won't fly at this point of the threadnaught. Everyone has Kender Oops! in their ideas. This is one of them. The only harm and foul is your unwillingness to admit to it and give us, your customers, that choice on icons.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
71
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 04:23:36 -
[1742] - Quote
Just a quick note to observe that the new icons are as painful as they were initially.
Between this, the neocon and the map.. I don't know which is worse =/ |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 04:40:03 -
[1743] - Quote
You guys tear up like this in game too? I like what they did...I don't see fail, I just hear whine. Easy to complain. Much cry....maybe your computers are old. No point in trying to debate/comment on this Carnyx thread any more...
-1 response poster
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
559
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 04:53:58 -
[1744] - Quote
Quote:4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
27. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued to the off-topic poster. I have removed a couple posts and those quoting them. Please stay on topic, refrain from inciting troll responses, and keep personal attacks out of the feedback. Thanks!
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Di Mulle
98
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 09:56:29 -
[1745] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: ] Rio Bravo wrote:I don't post for likes. I post when I see people being wierd. People unsubbing and so forth over icons is weird. The whole violin solo of 'please keep EvE wheel chair accessible', is kind of weird too. If you don't have the health to play EvE, maybe take a pottery class and leave our game alone. The 'developers' have to 'develop' the game to keep it young, fresh, and more vibrant as time goes on...maybe get a new pop bottle prescription if it helps you identify ships better. This is not a game made for the vision or comprehension impared. So when I snark, it's in defence of the people who bring us the game, against the people who treat design and dev hours like it's nothing. I am just sick of pouting, conniption birds, tantrums, and kermit flailing over icons. Thought humor might work to demonstrate the absurdity, but maybe the Adderall and Ritalin inhibits people getting the irony, idk... I keep smiling! You know things are bad when the fanbois have to come out to white knight CCP's obviously broken stuff
People like that one usually are not fanboys of CCP, or CocaCola, or something like that. They are fanboys of themselves.
All that rant (pretty insulting, but that is the purpose, actually) is a way to say "I am so cooool, you need to know that".
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
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DexterShark
The Night Watchmen The Bastion
68
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 10:25:21 -
[1746] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
This is weak.
I can write the Dev Blog you need for you:-
"Hello fellow capsuleers!
In the recent Carnyx release we launched a new set of overview icons which have generated a lot of feedback from the community, and we appreciate the constructive and honest nature of much of that feedback.
Having reviewed the feature now it is live, and discussed it at length with the CSM, it is clear to us on the team that the goals for these icons - clearer, more consistent and more meaningful icons that show at a glance what is in space - have not been met, and the feature has fallen short of the high standards we set for our work.
We are therefore reverting the new icons back to the original icons and looking at this again with a fresh pair of eyes.
Thanks to everyone who gave us such valuable and constructive feedback throughout this process, both on SiSi and on TQ, and we hope to be able to revisit this topic again in the future when we feel we have a stronger vision for what we want to achieve in this core aspect of the game.
Fly safe." |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
185
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 10:34:58 -
[1747] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:People unsubbing and so forth over icons is weird. The whole violin solo of 'please keep EvE wheel chair accessible', is kind of weird too. If you don't have the health to play EvE, maybe take a pottery class and leave our game alone. The 'developers' have to 'develop' the game to keep it young, fresh, and more vibrant as time goes on...maybe get a new pop bottle prescription if it helps you identify ships better. This is not a game made for the vision or comprehension impared.
This is the most disgustingly arrogant, insulting and narrowminded post I have seen in years. I wonder why this has not been pruned by ISD Decoy.
I will not quote you the people who are not vision impaired and not "old" and still have problems with the icons for obvious reasons. You do a good job ignoring that because you do not want to see it. It is boggling my mind how you can disregard so much fact based feedback.
Dear Rio Bravo, if you do not understand other people's reasons by reading this topic and refuse to ask the right questions, then it seems very obvious in how isolated you must be living in your Youniverse. I feel sorry for you.
Now, to bring something useful to the table and the topic:
I don't want to be in CCP's shoes right now. The push from the increased update pace that has been going on for a year now and the pull from the players is certainly not helping to make a day in the office very relaxed. I could very well understand they feel like "whatever we do, it is wrong, so why bother." It could also very well be that all decisions are being blamed back on the development team by the management, when said management has been disregarding the complaints from the players and developer teams alike. So what should we do here? Is there a solution for the future?
If I look into the gaming industry, and if I listen to what other people say who are more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, it seems that many companies have become blind to the power of the customer, and follow arbitrary trends and statistics more than what their community does. Every game that tries to chain their players to them is failing in the long run. It seems to me that many developers in the industry are still stuck in the "a consumer can only play one game" mentality. But this is wrong. There are people enjoying to play multiple games, and are discouraged to continue playing a game which pushes out more changes, updates and events than they can or want to keep up with. An example of this was Guild Wars 2 when they started with the living story updates. They lost a lot of players due to not being able to keep these events replayable for those who could not keep up with it. Gaming today is so popular, that the most income a company gets is usually from those "casual" players. Those who log in just for an evening or so. Not usually those who spend a majority of their day inside the game. "Casuals" are not bad players. In fact, I've seen many "Casual" players who blow all those 24/7 ones out of the water without much effort. I fail to see how "Casual" was ever related to "Bad". It only means "Not often online".
The "one game per customer" mentality is ESPECIALLY wrong for Eve online, where there are people who log into the game only to chat while playing other games. I would not be surprised if the concurrent player counter drops significantly if CCP integrates chat into evegate or to a third party program like Pidgin.
So what CAN we do together, CCP?
Narrow down the gap between developers and players. Be more inclusive of your playerbase and not treat them like uneducated defects. Integrate an ingame feedback tool. Integrate game-wide surveys which can be DELAYED and being answered later. If you force them at "right now, or never" you will disgruntle people again. This is the ONLY way to get sufficient information out of your playerbase. The ones who play our game. The ones who pay your bills. Include resourceful and bright players for helping you shape the game to a better world by giving them rewards for their high quality work. This works wonders in other companies.
Do something about your CSM. They are not only NOT accessible in the game, but their contributions and activity seems to go unnoticed. So what are they good for? What difference do they make? What parts of the game do they represent again? Aren't they the spokespersons and pillars of community that I would go to if I have a serious concern about a certain thing? I honestly cannot tell.
Sit down and have a talk with the bad apples in your company who are on an ego-trip. Special snowflakes who cannot accept their work and effort being not good enough need to get a reality check. I do not ask to fire anyone, I ask that people get a grip. Developers and Management alike. But this also includes the players too. There have been pretty nasty thing said to CCP which were totally uncalled for. Being factual and pointing out issues is enough. Adding insults does not make these statements any better.
Most of CCP's intentions for the direction of the game are really good which makes it really painful to see when they take a totally backwards approach. I know you love Eve, and we love Eve too.
Here is a thing though: Eve started out with trailblazing success because it was a good game. As it's popularity grew, it became a lot more obvious how CCP had to develop content FOR the players and change entire aspects of the game BECAUSE it was growing so big.
Without those wonderful players who shaped the world so often, there is no Eve any more. So who do you want to develop for? The players. This includes you. You are players too. But not everything a player wants to see is going to work.
Get closer with your players. It's getting dark. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 11:18:12 -
[1748] - Quote
Went and cried in the shower after my last post, my space family said things that hurt me. I just don't like when people try persuade people to keep EvE the same as it was in 2006, just cuz it suits them...I don't want CCP to only get the extreme forum bullies posting their suggestions. Carnyx was needed, the icons ARE great. Look forward to full NEW sov system, the NEW Gallente Tac Destroyer, NEW Rorqual dynamics, NEW ore distribution and utilization, and a host of other things that CCP has promised...You might not get them when you want them, but if they decided they were a positive thing at the round table, they will be implemented at the time they think best. The launcher has had some problems, they are smoothing them out. Yes, I am a fan boi, because I like what they have created, that's why I subscribe. Positive feedback is also feedback!
EDIT: Still haven't been into an unknown WH...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
DemetRYS
Relentless Terrorism Separatists
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 11:57:26 -
[1749] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Carnyx was needed, the icons ARE great.
I am glad you like them, now would you mind explaining why they should be forced on the rest of us who don't?
The solution is simple: CCP just needs to allow us to opt out of the new icons and use the old ones. Then you can keep the new ones and we can keep the old ones. Unfortunately CCP has nothing but contempt for the wishes of its paying customers and we are forced to use the new ones or just not play.
For heaven's sake, its 2015, why can't a PC game support multiple icon sets, its not like they are difficult to implement. By modern standards we should have the option of loading and mapping our own custom icons. CCP take note, you want to impress us with icons, let us use our own and then nobody has a reason to complain. |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
187
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 12:20:03 -
[1750] - Quote
So I cut out all things that are not relevant or useful and this is what is left to comment on for a healthy discussion. Now your post looks more like something that could be talked about.
Rio Bravo wrote:1) I don't want CCP to only get the extreme forum bullies posting their suggestions.
2) If they decided they were a positive thing at the round table, they will be implemented at the time they think best.
3) The launcher has had some problems, they are smoothing them out.
4) Yes, I am a fan boi, because I like what they have created, that's why I subscribe.
5) Positive feedback is also feedback! 1) The extreme forum bullies are a vast minority, if even present, in this topic. Or rather, let me rephrase that: There are more people trying to bully and naysay the people who bring well reasoned critique than otherwise. Which includes you.
2) Good intentions are not enough to create a good product. Every company relies on feedback to improve their products. Not just the video game industry.
3) The launcher has issues since the launcher exists, this is why a good number of people bypass the launcher completely. The launcher has even more problems since Download on Demand happened.
4) Not everyone buying and liking a product is a fanboy or a fangirl. The negative association with these words comes from those people ignoring the bad things and only look at the good things. Usually they are also very rude and dismissive of anyone who does not share their collective opinion. Many people in this topic have voiced their concerns in a very objective and reasonable fashion. Good points and good intentions have been pointed out by those very people too. The implementation and course of action has received negative reception. For a reason.
5) Yes, positive feedback is feedback c: Nobody here challenges and beats upon positive feedback. But the attitude some people bring while trying to reason their "positive feedback" is left wanting.
I do not question if you read the topic, I give you the benefit of doubt and hope that you have. I DO question if you have comprehended what people said, how they said it, and if you were capable of understanding the concerns and problems, and I question your ability to put this critique into an objective perspective.
See? It is very easy to have a neutral exchange without resorting to baseless accusations and slandering others c: |
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 13:26:24 -
[1751] - Quote
6) I cry in the shower.
Viva Carnyx! The launcher will rise again!
*\o/*
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
547
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 13:47:01 -
[1752] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Went and cried in the shower after my last post, my space family said things that hurt me. I just don't like when people try persuade people to keep EvE the same as it was in 2006, just cuz it suits them...I don't want CCP to only get the extreme forum bullies posting their suggestions. Carnyx was needed, the icons ARE great. Look forward to full NEW sov system, the NEW Gallente Tac Destroyer, NEW Rorqual dynamics, NEW ore distribution and utilization, and a host of other things that CCP has promised...You might not get them when you want them, but if they decided they were a positive thing at the round table, they will be implemented at the time they think best. The launcher has had some problems, they are smoothing them out. Yes, I am a fan boi, because I like what they have created, that's why I subscribe. Positive feedback is also feedback! EDIT: Still haven't been into an unknown WH... Don't know how it was in 2006, I didn't start playing until 2007, I am not and never have been averse to change that is valid and add something usable to the game. The ONLY reason Camyx was needed is because not long ago CCP decided it was easier to release unfinished, untested things into the game every 6 weeks than take the time to fully test and implement good and valid changes less frequently. Quarterly would have been a far better option.
I am glad you let us all know, those who have been loyal to and loved Eve for many years, who have less than perfect eyesight, are not supposed to play anymore. We are not important because Eve has to change. I agree Eve has to improve to compete in an ever growing market but is alienating parts of its existing player base really the right way to go?
I do note - You have been an avid proponent of the new icons but nowhere have you stated what you like about them. Why for you is something Devs state is not working as intended "great" ? And what I really want you to answer - Why am I as part of a minority group, no longer allowed to play a game I love so another minority group in Eve can have pretty icons. CCP have completely disregarded a known minority group who play the game to cater (almost exclusively) to another minority group.
BTW; "the icons ARE great", is not feedback. Especially when the developers have already come out quite publicly and said they are not great, they are not working as intended and we are "trying" to fix them.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31907
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 13:51:22 -
[1753] - Quote
Would it be possible to make icons semi-transparent unless we select them or they yellow box / aggress us?
It would make it easier to see the field, and also make relevant icons/things stand out in a meaningful way.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
189
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 14:08:05 -
[1754] - Quote
Case and proof how https://updates.eveonline.com/ is being flimsily filled with content. This one is very recent:
updates.eveonline.com wrote:Lai Dai's famed Tech II variant of the Caldari Caracal has be reimagined with a unique hull design. The upgrade also allows the ship to take advantage of the latest shader and texture updates. First: typo pointed out.
Second: You received negative feedback for bringing the new Caracal Hull but NOT provide the slight variations to the Cerberus hull. You also received negative feedback when you brought the Moa redesign first without adding the little details on the Onyx and Eagle. What would have been so bad to delay this a little and ship the new Cerberus hull with the Caracal hull? This would show you put quality and consistency over quantity.
I cannot believe they were BOTH not ready in time. If they were, then this is an alarming state. But it sounds more like you are putting in half-finished content in order to keep filling your patch notes just to make them look good. Another indicator of how such a huge speed increase in patch pace is negatively affecting you. People think you don't get things done in time. And we're still hoping to read more about your past ideas to give tech2 hulls more distinctions over tech1 hulls.
Sgt Ocker wrote:And what I really want you to answer - Why am I as part of a minority group, no longer allowed to play a game I love so another minority group in Eve can have pretty icons. CCP have completely disregarded a known minority group who play the game to cater (almost exclusively) to another minority group.
BTW; "the icons ARE great", is not feedback. Especially when the developers have already come out quite publicly and said they are not great, they are not working as intended and we are "trying" to fix them.
I wouldn't say we're talking about a minority group who dislikes the icons c: Even when I just look into the game chats and completely disregard the forum. Even most people who say they like the icons admit there are flaws in their implementation.
Second one is quoted for truth :D And I could not resist:
Natya Mebelle wrote:I'm curious how many more posts of you will follow where you thoroughly continue to embarrass yourself? I would be placing bets but... that would be just as wasteful as placing bounties.
Rio Bravo wrote:6) I cry in the shower.
Viva Carnyx! The launcher will rise again!
*\o/* |
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
548
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 14:46:36 -
[1755] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Case and proof how https://updates.eveonline.com/ is being flimsily filled with content. This one is very recent: updates.eveonline.com wrote:Lai Dai's famed Tech II variant of the Caldari Caracal has be reimagined with a unique hull design. The upgrade also allows the ship to take advantage of the latest shader and texture updates. First: typo pointed out. Second: You received negative feedback for bringing the new Caracal Hull but NOT provide the slight variations to the Cerberus hull. You also received negative feedback when you brought the Moa redesign first without adding the little details on the Onyx and Eagle. What would have been so bad to delay this a little and ship the new Cerberus hull with the Caracal hull? This would show you put quality and consistency over quantity. I cannot believe they were BOTH not ready in time. If they were, then this is an alarming state. But it sounds more like you are putting in half-finished content in order to keep filling your patch notes just to make them look good. Another indicator of how such a huge speed increase in patch pace is negatively affecting you. People think you don't get things done in time. And we're still hoping to read more about your past ideas to give tech2 hulls more distinctions over tech1 hulls. Sgt Ocker wrote:And what I really want you to answer - Why am I as part of a minority group, no longer allowed to play a game I love so another minority group in Eve can have pretty icons. CCP have completely disregarded a known minority group who play the game to cater (almost exclusively) to another minority group.
BTW; "the icons ARE great", is not feedback. Especially when the developers have already come out quite publicly and said they are not great, they are not working as intended and we are "trying" to fix them. I wouldn't say we're talking about a minority group who dislikes the icons c: Even when I just look into the game chats and completely disregard the forum. Even most people who say they like the icons admit there are flaws in their implementation. Second one is quoted for truth :D And I could not resist: Natya Mebelle wrote:I'm curious how many more posts of you will follow where you thoroughly continue to embarrass yourself? I would be placing bets but... that would be just as wasteful as placing bounties. Rio Bravo wrote:6) I cry in the shower.
Viva Carnyx! The launcher will rise again!
*\o/* For clarification - I was referring to the group (like me) with less than perfect vision. I know many others dislike these icons for very different reasons. I really could not tell you if I like the new icons or not - They are just blurry, mostly unidentifiable shapes to me.
I used to enjoy being a plus one scout, now I find I am next to useless as it takes me so long to identify targets.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 15:14:54 -
[1756] - Quote
Before we had 'Big red cross, Medium red cross, and Little red cross'...and generic brackets in space, that told you nothing at all. Now we have frigs, elite frigs, cruisers, battle cruisers, battleships, industrials, capital industrials, drones, empty wrecks, full wrecks, corpses, etc, etc...Much EASIER to quickly identify ships quickly, especially with large fleets, imo. Just set type column dominant, or fool around with overview filter settings tweaked the way you want. The Icons tell you way MORE than the simple variety of 3 red crosses we used to have. Heard a suggestion that maybe a PNG rendering of icons might prevent rasterizing, could help with scaling...
That said, I don't know what monitors your using or what, on my screen they come in good resolution wise. If your having vision trouble, don't scale to 90%. Might be a hardware problem, idk, but on my 3 year old googler, all the icons are perfect for me. Perhaps its a body part hardware problem, in which case I would make a post on an optomotrists forum as well as on an EvE Online one. Maybe their service department can do something for your vision. Comprehension wise, people who are having trouble thinking about all the new red shiny things on their screens should ask their parents to get them a Maplestory or Minecraft account and play that instead.
Hope I am not hurting peoples feelings, just explaining my view of the new icons. I suggest fitting your emotions with a T2 feelings hardener for the extra resists to tank through my posts.
Viva Icons!
+1 CCP
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 15:21:48 -
[1757] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:For clarification - I was referring to the group (like me) with less than perfect vision. I know many others dislike these icons for very different reasons. My bad for misreading! I still would not know how many people play Eve with bad eyesight. Maybe they are not that much of a minority group c: I mean, I don't know the chances if they are a majority of the players. But in any case, the group of eve players with less than perfect vision is for sure a significant one. A "big" enough "minority" that can not or should not be "safely disregarded" by any means c: I would even be bold enough to say that there are less colourblind people than people with "regular" bad eyesight. That still does not make red-green colourblind people a small enough percentage to disregard. And then we have the group of people with either smaller screens, or those who intentionally use 90% scaling even on large screens to have more space available, who still suffer from the icon issue.
Oh dear... I just wanted to say sorry for misreading, and ended up analyzing the issues with the icons involuntarily again :D It comes so natural already. But I guess this serves as a good reminder how many different reasons of why the icons don't work so well COMBINED are likely to be the majority of players who show discontent for the new icons, for whatever reasons. |
Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 15:22:30 -
[1758] - Quote
Everybody, stop feeding the troll, please. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
812
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 15:35:07 -
[1759] - Quote
Quote:Subscription Renewal Reminder
Dear ,
According to our records you have 6 days left on your non-recurring subscription to EVE Online.
Below is a list of some of the payment options that you can use to renew your subscription:*
Amazon CreditCard PayPal PaySafeCard Sofort Ukash
* Availability of payment methods varies by country
You can enjoy additional savings when opting for a 3-, 6- or 12-month payment. More information and payment options are available through Account Management.
- The EVE Online Dev Team
|
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
91
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 16:19:54 -
[1760] - Quote
rio ur just a troll ur not even funny altough u try to be |
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 17:08:08 -
[1761] - Quote
Have I missed the link to the blog regarding Icons???
Or are CCP still rushing to get it out..(Not)
Some idea of timescale would indeed be reassuring... |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
144
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 17:20:32 -
[1762] - Quote
Grubgrafter wrote:Have I missed the link to the blog regarding Icons??? Or are CCP still rushing to get it out..(Not) Some idea of timescale would indeed be reassuring...
+1 to wanting an ETA on that Dev Blog. As dragging it's release out to have it get lost in the shuffle of another mini-expansion release would be counter-productive, sooner is better than later.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Lantyss
Henthell Corporation
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 17:44:49 -
[1763] - Quote
Just finished unsubscribing alt account. Felt kind of ... "liberating." Not a lot of ISK on that account to bequeath to fellow pilots - sorry.
Been reflecting on the current situation and am still absolutely shocked and amazed at the arrogance and blatant disregard of our concerns on the part of CCP Claymore, his cronies, and the incredible Invisible (and silent) CSM. For those of us who are in the process of disengaging from this game, the bitterness and sense of betrayal are palpable! Once we are gone, there will probably be no return. We will find a new home, where we will be more appreciated and respected. The thought of that migration (to another game) makes me wonder if the game media and blog-o-sphere are following this CCP debacle. Perhaps some enterprising space-based game company will begin soliciting EVE players and invite us to their sandbox. Interesting prospect...
I wish the best to all the great EVE pilots whom I have met and to (nearly all of) those who posted here.
Lantyss |
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 18:17:21 -
[1764] - Quote
Lantyss wrote:The thought of that migration (to another game) makes me wonder if the game media and blog-o-sphere are following this CCP debacle. Perhaps some enterprising space-based game company will begin soliciting EVE players and invite us to their sandbox. Interesting prospect... The break is not obvious enough yet. It is not like Incarna, where several thousand players dropped out very soon. There are others who also claim it is the summer hole right now, which may or may not be true. We've seen eve player count rising during summer, instead of dropping. All in all, soon after the rapid patch deployment, we're seeing a gradual decrease, again several thousand players in total. If there are no drastic changes or very good content updates, Winter 2015 will not see it's usual rise but remain flat. At the very latest, this will be the time when we know that things definitely went wrong somewhere.
Something that I do wish for all the players young and old, is that they keep checking if CCP got the message and started to fix things again. I understand you leaving and I wish you the best c: Just keep that eye on the horizon every now and then. Maybe a Ship will appear, and it will be an Eve ship, carrying good news? |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
145
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 21:19:34 -
[1765] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Lantyss wrote:The thought of that migration (to another game) makes me wonder if the game media and blog-o-sphere are following this CCP debacle. Perhaps some enterprising space-based game company will begin soliciting EVE players and invite us to their sandbox. Interesting prospect... The break is not obvious enough yet. It is not like Incarna, where several thousand players dropped out very soon. There are others who also claim it is the summer hole right now, which may or may not be true. We've seen eve player count rising during summer, instead of dropping. All in all, soon after the rapid patch deployment, we're seeing a gradual decrease, again several thousand players in total. If there are no drastic changes or very good content updates, Winter 2015 will not see it's usual rise but remain flat. At the very latest, this will be the time when we know that things definitely went wrong somewhere. Something that I do wish for all the players young and old, is that they keep checking if CCP got the message and started to fix things again. I understand you leaving and I wish you the best c: Just keep that eye on the horizon every now and then. Maybe a Ship will appear, and it will be an Eve ship, carrying good news?
And so it's not going out with a bang, but a slow leak whimper. If the option to use old icons doesn't happen before this last account runs out of time, then I'll check back now and again. Who knows, someone Personage In Charge will realize what's happening to Eve Online, that a combo of 'get used to it' responses to complaints along with the fast track release schedule is doing more harm than good.
No, I'm not jumping on the 'Eve is dying!' bandwagon. However, it does need some serious time in ICU if this keeps up.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Shuckstar
Tax Haters Evaders Corp
300
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 22:21:30 -
[1766] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
What a load of crap..
CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
|
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2015.06.17 23:14:34 -
[1767] - Quote
With Icongate and proposed changes to fleet warp I'm extremely concerned in the direction CCP is taking the game now... Its as though they really want to break it...
I was hoping for good things in 2015, but the more I listen and read, the more concerned I get..
Still waiting for Icongate Blog !! With a timeline would be good..
|
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 00:11:34 -
[1768] - Quote
Grubgrafter wrote:With Icongate and proposed changes to fleet warp I'm extremely concerned in the direction CCP is taking the game now... Its as though they really want to break it...
I was hoping for good things in 2015, but the more I listen and read, the more concerned I get..
Still waiting for Icongate Blog !! With a timeline would be good..
It has the same feel to it as an EU referendum on the Lisbon Treaty.Vote re vote re vote till you get the right vote. Instead it's SISI feedback wrong feedback,TQ feedback wrong feed back Blog feedback etc etc till the voice becomes a whisper and then it must be ok.
The whisper just means everyone has left the building
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
145
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 00:52:42 -
[1769] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:
*snip!*
We absolutely do care and player feedback has not been discarded, although hands up we could have been better at replying to this thread.
The blog will be both, why we did it, and after reading your concerns and feedback what we plan to do. We understand that NPC are not distinguishable enough and that is high on our list to improve. We are also looking at drones.
Hopefully the blog will cover your concerns. We will be looking for more feedback like this once we have published it.
Added some underlining so demonstrate an obvious problem bigger than this Icongate debacle. Admission of lack of replies, followed by....
Lack of something so simple as an ETA on a Dev Blog about it!
Consider me very unimpressed. When does that blog go up?
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Phice Anxu
Genetix Research Corporation
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 01:25:21 -
[1770] - Quote
After removing most of customization capacity of the UI (sliders), after adding serious visual annoyances (the bubble of light at the center of each gate, the change of point of view when you jump) who can discourage some players with eye deficiencies (but heh, it is fancy so...), after a long history of "don't care" about feedback while still calling of it, the price of PLEX who is going up ingame (at 20 Gé¼ for a plex, no wonder it goes up) making hard to stay for some players, etc...
No wonder that the online counter is going down. Even if we are in summer now, there was better numbers at previous summers...
Personaly, I love play at EVE with a big window (market/industry) opened at all time to hide the visual annoyances of the gates, or alt+tab most of the time. Well... at least, the new icons aren't a problem in my case, I don't see them.
Some of the annoyances can be corrected by options, like the new map who can be disabled to permit a better scanning. The Advanced Audio Settings is an exemple of a great work when they want do it, who made me reactivate the sound engine.
Maybe CCP will finally add options for most of the existing annoyances, one day... It will cost some pride and I know that they are really prideful, but they have to. |
|
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 01:59:48 -
[1771] - Quote
Who cares about the blog post ETA? It's not like we are going to enjoy what it says.
I'm more interested in the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride ETA. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
146
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 03:01:13 -
[1772] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:Who cares about the blog post ETA? It's not like we are going to enjoy what it says.
I'm more interested in the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride ETA.
We'll probably get that Blog up and available before the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride patch. I'm in the cynical thinking, we'll get that blog just in time for it to be completely buried in the next release blog blasts. So it can be 'shown' as uninteresting to their customer base by lack of views, therefore 'proving' to themselves they were right and we were unreasonable about a 'little' thing like an icon change.
Another form of cooking the books for spreadsheets and statistics.
Last time I saw this much log book marinating plus shake and bake, was when 18-wheelers in the States could get away with 2-4 time/distance logs in their truck since it wasn't computerized or automated. That way they could blow time on the road restrictions along with cover speeding on those long hauls, still passing the regulation and numbers sniff tests at weight stations.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 03:38:29 -
[1773] - Quote
They will change nothing. At all. They never did. And never will. No matter how idiotic or pointless the change was. Actually i bet they stopped reading this after the first 20 replies. Also they are prolly aware that McDonalds hires all the time, and they can join Greyscale there. So they really don't worry about their jobs. |
Torxx Maxx
Almost Human.
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 03:52:04 -
[1774] - Quote
I believe the blogs content will be a nicely worded long winded speal about how we will have to learn to live with the bullsh1t icons because of fictitious coding issues or GTFO.. So I chose to GTFO..
My 2003 account dies the 3rd of next month, this one has less than 2 days and one other has less than 24 hours. |
Myo Megas
Vengance Inc. Nulli Secunda
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 05:25:23 -
[1775] - Quote
oh my god, look at all the tears, this is almost better than PvP. people who quit the game over icons im sure sucked anyways and did nothing in game but ***** about pvpers who kill them. what is wrong with EvE isnt CCP changing icons its ****** players who cry about everything that changes. go back to hello kitty island adventure, no one will miss you |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31910
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 05:29:03 -
[1776] - Quote
Just saw a screenshot of DUST gameplay that featured icons similar to what is in the EVE client now. Didn't realize the two games' UI designs were mated at the icons. I'm inclined to say that was a bad decision, when so many of the items on screen in EVE are the same size or smaller than their icons.
Regarding the dev's earlier question about why people use 90% UI scaling, the answer is easy. They've bought monitors with big dimensions but oversized pixels. They downscale to get the UI back to the physical dimensions of their old 24 inch 1080p monitor, but oversized pixels means aliasing on the pixel hardware level. You couldn't AA that away if you tried.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
RetSquid
Null n Void Voice of Void Alliance
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 05:29:34 -
[1777] - Quote
What logical reason was there to change the icons? |
Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 05:32:53 -
[1778] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
We don't care about any discussions with your "CSM"... We want our %&$*ing Icons back. Some of us actually like to zoom out and see ships and that is not possible with the garbage you released. |
Vitrolic Vehemence
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 06:46:28 -
[1779] - Quote
i love the new icons, they're better at discerning ship types....before you couldnt tell a frigate from a destroyer or a cruser from a battlecruser. dont change a thing! |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
176
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 07:29:11 -
[1780] - Quote
Vitrolic Vehemence wrote:i love the new icons, they're better at discerning ship types....before you couldnt tell a frigate from a destroyer or a cruser from a battlecruser. dont change a thing!
As I see your KB stat and date of birth in game why you even comment this tread when you all live were stay docked in the station? |
|
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 07:34:02 -
[1781] - Quote
Panterata wrote:.........
As I see your KB stat and date of birth in game why you even comment this tread when you all live were stay docked in the station?
Probably because he would have embarrassed himself even more had he stayed on his other posting alts ....
|
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 08:12:24 -
[1782] - Quote
RetSquid wrote:What logical reason was there to change the icons?
If there was one, I would also like to know the reason.
But in more than 90 pages with discomfort CCP has not even delivered an argumentation, why a change was necessary. If there was a logical and understandable reason, nevertheless, it would only make sense if one argues with this reason. With this reason CCP would maybe have saved itself the big annoyance. Moreover, CCP could better have discussed with us or let me say better: [bhis ]paying customers[/b].
Because, however, no such argumentation took place, only one conclusion remains: There was nothing to act and the people had to be occupied. |
Lisa Gentilette
The Scope Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 09:10:38 -
[1783] - Quote
Sophia Mileghere wrote:RetSquid wrote:What logical reason was there to change the icons? If there was one, I would also like to know the reason. But in more than 90 pages with discomfort CCP has not even delivered an argumentation, why a change was necessary.
Quote:a holistic icon strategy where we make all things in EVE that have a uniquely defined role, function or purpose have their own distinctive icon.
The long term goal is that in the foreseeable future we will no longer see the same item icon for two different modules or other things.
We want to ensure that all items which exists in the game and have a uniquely defined role, function or purpose should have their own distinctive icon.
More here.
What they want is total chaos. Simple. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 09:29:51 -
[1784] - Quote
thank you for the link, Lisa
At least other players care to announce the news ^^
At a first glance .... omfg, lol - did they understand a thing of what was written in the feedback threads???? |
Cat silth
hotdropoclock Enterprises Seraphim Alliance
18
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 09:46:50 -
[1785] - Quote
I want a simple overveiw is much to ask ? ive forced my eyes to stop looking at the icon and read the ship type as far to confusing trying to remember the differant shapes. come on ccp get grip and do something for it playerbase instead of forcing it on us. |
Neovenator
Eat My Shorts Inc.
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 10:02:37 -
[1786] - Quote
I want my crosses back. Period.
Groetjes, Neo.
|
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 10:24:41 -
[1787] - Quote
Lisa Gentilette wrote:Sophia Mileghere wrote:RetSquid wrote:What logical reason was there to change the icons? If there was one, I would also like to know the reason. But in more than 90 pages with discomfort CCP has not even delivered an argumentation, why a change was necessary. Quote:a holistic icon strategy where we make all things in EVE that have a uniquely defined role, function or purpose have their own distinctive icon.
The long term goal is that in the foreseeable future we will no longer see the same item icon for two different modules or other things.
We want to ensure that all items which exists in the game and have a uniquely defined role, function or purpose should have their own distinctive icon.
More here.What they want is total chaos. Simple.
I know this Blog, but these Icons differ partly drastically from those in the game. The problem is, it was presented something, but was delivered something differently and many people does not like this.
|
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 10:31:39 -
[1788] - Quote
uh, I mistook Lisa's link for the new blog that was promised to us..... guess i expected too much speed from CCP |
MavnGoose
Valkyrie.
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 10:54:03 -
[1789] - Quote
You cunts are fucken dumb. We dont want your ****** icons forced upon us. Just give us the option to put the new icons in a seperate column and everyones happy. That might even be useful. More help than the current clusterfuck anyway. Wankers.
|
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
559
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 11:21:46 -
[1790] - Quote
Quote:2. Be respectful toward others at all times.
The purpose of the EVE Online forums is to provide a platform for exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion of EVE Online. Occasionally there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Forum users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.
3. Ranting is prohibited.
A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.
4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not conductive to the community spirit that CCP promotes. As such, this kind of behavior will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. Please keep comments respectful, regardless of how emotionally charged you may be.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
|
George Gouillot
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 12:33:22 -
[1791] - Quote
It might help calming down and have a read that will make you smile: Funny story
Even contains Pandas. |
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
197
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 13:06:53 -
[1792] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Louanne Barros wrote:Who cares about the blog post ETA? It's not like we are going to enjoy what it says.
I'm more interested in the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride ETA. We'll probably get that Blog up and available before the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride patch. I'm in the cynical thinking, we'll get that blog just in time for it to be completely buried in the next release blog blasts. So it can be 'shown' as uninteresting to their customer base by lack of views, therefore 'proving' to themselves they were right and we were unreasonable about a 'little' thing like an icon change. I thought he said that they'd put the blog out after they "dotted the i's and crossed the t's" of their "fix"....which likely means we won't have any say in how anything is changed, because you have seen how well they took the SiSi feedback...and now atleast 3 weeks of this feedback...all for not.
They simply need to eat their pride, and revert this hot mess until they have "fix" ready, then put it on SiSi and actually utilize the feedback, none of which will be mine because by the time that happens my accounts will have lapsed with no renewal. And i'm okay with that, if they want to shoot themselves in the foot some more...fine by me.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
178
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 13:50:12 -
[1793] - Quote
Of course when is not in your favor CCP you delete the posts! |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
179
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 13:59:37 -
[1794] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
You answer us simple so we will ask simple again
When we will get old icons back?
"Without going into too much detail as" why we don't like them "we (players) have idea for you to roll them back. If you wish according from the feedback on this thread we can discussing with CSM for you. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
148
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 14:25:46 -
[1795] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:Louanne Barros wrote:Who cares about the blog post ETA? It's not like we are going to enjoy what it says.
I'm more interested in the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride ETA. We'll probably get that Blog up and available before the fix-the-UI-despite-their-pride patch. I'm in the cynical thinking, we'll get that blog just in time for it to be completely buried in the next release blog blasts. So it can be 'shown' as uninteresting to their customer base by lack of views, therefore 'proving' to themselves they were right and we were unreasonable about a 'little' thing like an icon change. I thought he said that they'd put the blog out after they "dotted the i's and crossed the t's" of their "fix"....which likely means we won't have any say in how anything is changed, because you have seen how well they took the SiSi feedback...and now atleast 3 weeks of this feedback...all for not. They simply need to eat their pride, and revert this hot mess until they have "fix" ready, then put it on SiSi and actually utilize the feedback, none of which will be mine because by the time that happens my accounts will have lapsed with no renewal. And i'm okay with that, if they want to shoot themselves in the foot some more...fine by me.
Getting to 1800 replies on this thread, the lack of updating from CCP on the meeting notes, the blog, and responding in general is astounding and speaks volumes in it's silence.
After admitting you could keep some sort of contact and updating in better standings, you then continue to... do the same mostly silent stonewall treatment. Oh, you did bring out a forum monitor to delete a couple posts. Yeah, that really lets us know when those meeting notes and blog will be available to your paying customers.
Or do we wait for what's becoming obvious, the Monday or Tuesday few line blerb? A quick scroll on the first page of EVE Information Portal, the only topic with more replies deals with Sov Phase Two. Umm, Houston/Reykjavik, you have a problem. And ignoring it won't make it go away.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Turandis
Static-Noise Upholders
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 15:10:19 -
[1796] - Quote
Tears, Tears, Tears.... All I see is people complaining about some so called game breaking change (thats no where close to being that) that's going to make some of you threaten CCP that you will quit playing. Grow up and take the 5mins to learn the new icons. Better yet you could always go on SiSi when these changes are put live there, check them out first hand before they go live... |
Di Mulle
100
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 15:19:38 -
[1797] - Quote
Turandis wrote:. Better yet you could always go on SiSi when these changes are put live there, check them out first hand before they go live...
And.... ?
<<Insert some waste of screen space here>>
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
817
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 15:31:00 -
[1798] - Quote
Turandis wrote:Better yet you could always go on SiSi when these changes are put live there, check them out first hand before they go live...
that just proves you are a troll. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31912
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 15:38:54 -
[1799] - Quote
Just so CCP people are aware, when I notice a suspiciously positive / fanboyish comment that seems out of place, I compare the character's born date to all the born dates of everyone listed in CCP Alliance and I discover a lot of your alts that way. I keep your posts recorded in the same Excel table as your born dates, and I'm going to write an expos+¬.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC 404 Alliance Not Found
201
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:17:34 -
[1800] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Just so CCP people are aware, when I notice a suspiciously positive / fanboyish comment that seems out of place, I compare the character's born date to all the born dates of everyone listed in CCP Alliance and I discover a lot of your alts that way. I keep your posts recorded in the same Excel table as your born dates, and I'm going to write an expos+¬.
I'm revealing this because I would rather see Devs participate genuinely in forum discussion on their main. As funny as it is seeing Devs try to hide behind alts, unsuccessfully. I normally don't like to support a Goon, but it's hard not to support something like this. Keep it up Rain6637
BTW the new icons are pretty lame except for the wormhole icon that one is pretty good. |
|
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
785
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 16:22:31 -
[1801] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Getting to 1800 replies on this thread
From the same people, over and over again.
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: After admitting you could keep some sort of contact and updating in better standings, you then continue to... do the same mostly silent stonewall treatment.
What is there to respond to? The same complaints and threats people keep repeating page after page? They already said they will not go back to the old icons. And to await the blog for more information. Nothing more for them to say.
All those threatening to quit over the icons, put your money where your mouth is and do it. Like Hilmar said during Greed Is Good, they care about what you DO, not what you say. So DO it. No need to post about it over and over again.
-Unezka Turigahl (not a CCP alt)
|
PAPULA
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
39
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:07:51 -
[1802] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. I think i'll stop playing this game, in pvp it takes ages to see what's attacking me and what is pve stuff.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
181
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 17:09:24 -
[1803] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Getting to 1800 replies on this thread
From the same people, over and over again. Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: After admitting you could keep some sort of contact and updating in better standings, you then continue to... do the same mostly silent stonewall treatment.
What is there to respond to? The same complaints and threats people keep repeating page after page? They already said they will not go back to the old icons. And to await the blog for more information. Nothing more for them to say. All those threatening to quit over the icons, put your money where your mouth is and do it. Like Hilmar said during Greed Is Good, they care about what you DO, not what you say. So DO it. No need to post about it over and over again. -Unezka Turigahl (not a CCP alt)
What is there to respond to? - Simple - "We will roll back the old icons! - that is what they must say and do. Because these are the wishes of the 80% of the active ppl!
No one cares for their blogs!
Greed is Sin! Greed is not Good
So don't you realize that we can't DO anything with this sh...ity icons?! That's why the ppl are screaming! So if they want to DO something we can DO IT with the old PVP and PVE icons! That's it! |
space gator
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:02:07 -
[1804] - Quote
dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
186
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:02:47 -
[1805] - Quote
I'm very surprised noone from CCP came to post this link here: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/
edit: aww, space gator beat my to it by seconds :) |
Ripblade Falconpunch
Centurion Logistics
184
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:04:51 -
[1806] - Quote
For anyone who doesn't want to read the exciting new devblog.....
The tl;dr is "Screw you customers, we know best". |
Kiera Oramara
State War Academy Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:12:02 -
[1807] - Quote
Ok we have had the icons for awhile now And they still SUX I even read the dev blog from CCP Surge
But my opinion is still the same (see quote under)
K
Kiera Oramara wrote:Please stop dragging your feets Just give us the old icons back........
.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
183
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:18:13 -
[1808] - Quote
Ripblade Falconpunch wrote:For anyone who doesn't want to read the exciting new devblog.....
The tl;dr is "Screw you customers, we know best".
Unfortunately they are saying exactly this! - We don't care what you want because we are THINKING that is better.
Hey CCP and all DEV team. I think is time to start play this game because obviously you are not!!!
Anyway I will find a way how to remove my IC colon from my overview and turn all brackets off
/me Log out |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
186
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:23:53 -
[1809] - Quote
Gah, CCP, you missed the train entirely, at least for my personal problems
I have no problem telling the icons apart when I focus on them. These icons are so similar that i HAVE to focus on them, to tell them apart, which takes longer.
Your new icons are very pretty, AND make sence, unfortunately, this is a visual problem, that has nothing to do with preference or aesthetic.
Also that blog post has somewhat of an attitude to it. I seriously feel that whoever wrote it was pissed off at the complaints and would have preferred to be allowed to tell us to **** ***
You may want to follow http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility or your own version of it This tells me more of your customers opinion on this this change then everything in this thread The peak users have dropped by about 2500 in the last two weeks?
If I'm counting that right, and that is NOT just a coincidence, it looks like AT LEAST 2500 people stopped playing, to send you a 35000$/month middle finger, for this change.. The true numbers have yet to appear.
And seriously CCP, I expected better from you than that blog post, it's just dripping with attitude. Tasteless, at best. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
184
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:34:11 -
[1810] - Quote
btw when you will offer customization of the icons as you said in your "blog"
http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67311/1/cheatsheet.jpg
I would like to replace my player ship icons for ALL classes and NPC ship icons for ALL classes with the icons from Generic > Structures which look [ ] for player ships icons for ALL classes and Entity which look + for all npc ships for ALL classes.
Can I? |
|
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:50:35 -
[1811] - Quote
Read the blog and the last paragraph leaves me completely speechless but at least we are left in no doubt about the contempt most of the playerbase are held in so well done in making that part so clear. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
820
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 18:57:14 -
[1812] - Quote
Sorry, but that blog is shite and of no use whatsoever. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
470
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:18:28 -
[1813] - Quote
I got to say that the dev blog is completely unreal. It is as tone deaf as saying $1000 space jeans were good for eve.
Its been said before and is worth repeating - the new icons do not "Improve playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat" instead they make them worse since the icons are too small and too similar to each other. The icons also do not create a "clearer system for identifying different objects in space." Instead there is just informational overload with a needlessly cluttered screen that hides all of the useful information. As for "Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS" - who cares? Most players (at least those that I know) do not use ISIS and have removed it from their overviews (I stuck mine into a junk subcatagory).
The blog is clearly just a finger in the eye to the players. Its CCP telling us, we cooked you up a shitsandwhich; maybe with time we'll make it tastier but now you got to eat it for the indefinite future since there is no estimate as to when we are going to get it right, so just like Captains quarters, its likely going to sit around in its halfassed state indefinitely.
Sure CCP I get that you feel the need to turn simple things to complex ones. But since you seem to recognize that the icons are currently subpar, at least let us use the old ones until you get these new ones up to snuff.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
470
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:21:22 -
[1814] - Quote
Panterata wrote:btw when you will offer customization of the icons as you said in your "blog" http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67311/1/cheatsheet.jpg I would like to replace my player ship icons for ALL classes and NPC ship icons for ALL classes with the icons from Generic > Structures which look [ ] for player ships icons for ALL classes and Entity which look + for all npc ships for ALL classes. Can I?
Would be certainly nice if CCP would just offer a "classic" option for icons.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
185
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:34:22 -
[1815] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Panterata wrote:btw when you will offer customization of the icons as you said in your "blog" http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/67311/1/cheatsheet.jpg I would like to replace my player ship icons for ALL classes and NPC ship icons for ALL classes with the icons from Generic > Structures which look [ ] for player ships icons for ALL classes and Entity which look + for all npc ships for ALL classes. Can I? Would be certainly nice if CCP would just offer a "classic" option for icons.
That is my point m8. Because the Structure icons is quite similar to the old PVP ship icon and Entity icons is quite similar to old NPC ship icon. I want to use them for my PVP and PVE overview for all class ships!
I don't care for the sun,station,gates,betls icons etc etc |
space gator
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:35:51 -
[1816] - Quote
I appreciate the attempt at making humor of a bad situation, at least somewhat. However, the bordering on insulting portion of the blog:
"GǪ Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed.
But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present."
Seems to redirect blame in the issue, and says here is a big "L" for Loser to put on your forehead to the eve community if you failed to adapt.
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:41:34 -
[1817] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:I got to say that the dev blog is completely unreal. It is as tone deaf as saying $1000 space jeans were good for eve.
Its been said before and is worth repeating - the new icons do not "Improve playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat" instead they make them worse since the icons are too small and too similar to each other. The icons also do not create a "clearer system for identifying different objects in space." Instead there is just informational overload with a needlessly cluttered screen that hides all of the useful information. As for "Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS" - who cares? Most players (at least those that I know) do not use ISIS and have removed it from their overviews (I stuck mine into a junk subcatagory).
The blog is clearly just a finger in the eye to the players. Its CCP telling us, we cooked you up a shitsandwhich; maybe with time we'll make it tastier but now you got to eat it for the indefinite future since there is no estimate as to when we are going to get it right, so just like Captains quarters, its likely going to sit around in its halfassed state indefinitely.
Sure CCP I get that you feel the need to turn simple things to complex ones. But since you seem to recognize that the icons are currently subpar, at least let us use the old ones until you get these new ones up to snuff.
Perhaps they look better on whatever huge monitors CCP is using, but i'm playing on a 22" 1920x1080 monitor, when I get a blob of ships, I only see three things:
Small triangle: frigate Big triangle: destroyer/cruiser/battecrusier Arrow thing: battleship
And I need to focus and look carefully, to tell them apart. Getting a quick guess of how many of each, is quite impossible.
It's all a blob of crap that looks the same give me a group of ships, and there is no way I can tell how many of them are triangles with lines under them, and how many are fat triangles It's all just a blob of fat triangles. |
Nym Doe
Bear Bones Brigade The Bastards.
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:47:08 -
[1818] - Quote
Awful awful awful blog and missing the point entirely.
"Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat."
Not addressed in next steps and this is the biggest issue.
Well done for paying no attention to what the players actually are asking for. The old icons back.
That devblog squeals like a bag of pigs. |
Grubgrafter
Fortis fortuna adiuvat Fortuna Alliance
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:47:18 -
[1819] - Quote
OMG, they're lapping up their own BS....
Given the length of time peeps have had to wait for this 'tell us want we didn't already know blog + dev's finger', I see the feedback from this thread has been put to good use... (NOT)..
Absolutely pitiful blog on Icongate issue...
I believe now ccp is on its own mission and frankly doesn't give a damn...
Question, a very simple one... Why would you want to give every single item in space its own icon??
The icons achieve quite the reverse of what your stated goal is....
Signing off from this thread, as little point talking to a wall..... Returning the finger |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:47:41 -
[1820] - Quote
Nooo....these triangles are wrecks....or no....flying wrecks...wait...which is wreck or is that a wreck....no it was NPC ....?! |
|
Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:50:09 -
[1821] - Quote
TLDR; "%#@$ you"
Ok then, %#@$ you too! |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
188
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 19:55:02 -
[1822] - Quote
Btw I'm pretty sure that some CSM's are reading this thread! CSM you are elected from the players! Do something or convo me if you not see the problems! |
Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:16:20 -
[1823] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Btw I'm pretty sure that some CSM's are reading this thread! CSM you are elected from the players! Do something or convo me if you not see the problems!
I'm sure they would love to have another ccp provided vacation (aka emergency meeting) but it's not happening. CCP is saying get #%@$ed. |
E6o5
Tyler Durden Demolitions
328
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:21:17 -
[1824] - Quote
that dev blog is one big disappointment |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
396
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:24:51 -
[1825] - Quote
Quote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/ Just when I thought I've seen all the fail in CCP there is, they manage to surprise me by revealing a whole new magnitude of it.
Instead of pointing out how hard CCP failed to accomplish their design goals and rather than explaining why the chosen method, the underlying idea to design the new icons is unbelievably dumb, I just want to add something CCP apparently did not consider:
EVE is a game I and others used to like - enough to pay for more than just 1 account - and I'm pretty sure most won't leave light-heartedly. But in the end, it's just a game. And when this game is no longer entertaining but a source of stress and anger (because of some "improvements" implented by some know-it-alls), it just might be time to move on.
Or to put it in other words: I'll bet that I can keep up not paying them far longer than CCP devs can keep up not getting payed.
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
404
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:44:47 -
[1826] - Quote
That blog was entirely underwhelming as a response or justification. The entirety of the past 80+ pages still stands. How long with it take and how much player trust are you willing to lose over something this silly, CCP?
Old Icons as an option is the ONLY solution. The Sooner the better.
Edit: I have un-subbed one account. More will follow soon If I can't use the old icons. I really love this game but I am having a hard time playing it, and an even harder time believing that developers are attentive to the desires and needs of their subscribers.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:45:51 -
[1827] - Quote
Wow, so after 90+ pages of very detailed feedback with numerous posts explaining why the new icons are not helpful... we eventually get a devblog like that.
Anyway... it's pretty clear this mess is not going to be fixed any time soon.
I myself am not going to quit over the icons (would be difficult, as I have subbed for a whole year fairly recently), but I can see people really are quitting or at least not logging in... I am moving around a lot in hisec and lowsec and the universe of EVE is becoming emptier and emptier by the day. And I have already been here a year ago and the year before that, so don't tell me it happens every summer... it did not feel like that in 2014 or 2013.
Wonder if CCP 'gets it' before my current subscription runs out. |
Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
17
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:53:12 -
[1828] - Quote
You said that you look the post well. But you have not got (or did not want it) what we want.
So, CCP, only for you in easy words: Give us the old Icons back!
Any more we do not want. Whether rollback, the icons become optional or it solves anyhow (else) makes no difference to us. |
Mirija
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 20:57:49 -
[1829] - Quote
thx ccp : for your honesty in giving a big fat FU to the playerbase !
|
Red Deck
The Tebo Corp
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 21:07:27 -
[1830] - Quote
Just an idea...
CCP, if you are really interested in knowing what people think about the new icons and how strongly they feel about the issue, why don't you create a poll and link it prominently from the launcher? I recall participating in a poll on new features in EVE published by CCP before...
Trust me when I say there is a lot more pissed people than you can see in this (already monumental) thread...
The poll might be super simple like
Choose one from: A) Love the new icons, keep the old ones buried. B) Mixed bag, no strong feelings either way. C) The new icons don't work for me, roll the whole thing back.
and as an extra yes/no question: D) Make using the old icons an option.
This should provide you with data enough to possibly reconsider your current course of action (or a solid justification to tell all of us in this thread very plainly to shut the **** up because we are clearly just an insignificant, even if vocal minority). |
|
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
406
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 21:21:16 -
[1831] - Quote
'Developer Blog'' wrote: Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat.
Objective failed. Takes me 4-5 times as long to read in one part of the grid, and I have logged a significant number of hours in the game since the patch.
'Developer Blog'' wrote: A clearer system for identifying different objects in space.
Objective failed. All the objects look exceptionally similar at a glance.
'Developer Blog'' wrote: Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS.
The ship tree is a very useful tool, but it's purpose is a reference tool. One does not open a dictionary in time sensitive situations.
'Developer Blog'' wrote: Mea culpa
I'm sorry, but that is just another callous brushing off of the players who have had their entire gameplay ruined by these icon changes.
'Developer Blog'' wrote: WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups.
Counting the hits, ignoring the misses, confirmation bias, etc. Where is your concern for the people that that have NOT benefited from this change? Thrown under the bus, that's where!
Old Icons, or at least the option. That is what the noise is about, and you seem to have very selective reading of criticism there.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
sally solamen
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 22:23:06 -
[1832] - Quote
really getting pissed of at ccp. 1.icons are **** 2. icons are **** 3, ICONS ARE ****...get it now.....?
stop massing with the game ffs,i lost at least 10 of my in game friends last year who i started with in 2008 with all the changes. please stop
sally
ps:if it aint broke dont fix it FFS |
MavnGoose
Valkyrie.
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.18 22:56:54 -
[1833] - Quote
That dev blog aside from explaining why you changed things, did nothing but patronise us and gave us nothing to look forward to. Good riddance |
March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1697
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:00:20 -
[1834] - Quote
Personally i got used to new 'COOL ICONS' CCP (c). But i still don't like them. And i don't like new CCP. Reminds me of 2011...
Sent ticket to suspend my account. With remark 'new icons'. See you all later
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:11:08 -
[1835] - Quote
There are many games out there which I would like to play, but I don't really have the time to learn something new. I don't even have the time to play eve any more, but I still pay religiously for my 4 accounts by direct debit. - Dutifully training skills on pilots I rarely log in, with some level of obedient addiction.
I play eve for 10+ years because its like a really nice comfortable blanket. I know all its funny corners and ruffled edges and those edges seem to match my own, like I am one and part of the same quilt. It is all the more comforting, because that blanket was so barren and hostile when I first encountered it. And I somehow, against the odds made a home here.
The new icons are awful, I don't need to go into detail but just sit on any gate with a cov ops in any system and shout when you see another ship on the gate with you. I would guess most will either not notice or notice late the appearance of a ship as the icons are so similar in your tertiary vision they all look exactly the same.
The genius of the old system was to make the icons different enough, for you to be able to focus on all the other EVE stuff going on, whilst scouting or looking for npcs or whatever people like to do. You could instantly see a change in your tertiary vision, and act. - BTW try the new icons in FW its a whole barrel of crap. - your overview is full of blobs.
What's the risk here? Well from reading these 100 pages of replies it seems people are calling these icons out for what they are - an ill thought out design, unwanted by the general player base.
The risk is, if you change the comfortable blanket too much, people might just decide to buy a new one, one which is much more their cup of tea, much warmer with new microfiber technology & doesn't sting them for 10 pound a month.
DARK
RISING
Stop playing EVE
Start living it
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31924
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:27:00 -
[1836] - Quote
Ships should be square icons because the shape makes the best use of their dimensions. Squares are the most prime & desirable shape for ship icons and they should not be spent on anything else.
You can alter the outer size of the square, and the thickness of its walls. Drones can be an X with a dot or small square in the center, or just a line through through a square... though even that might be too big.
It's easier and faster to distinguish between different types of squares than it is to memorize or relate the triangular polygons you've used for ships. They make things more complicated than they need to be. Way more complicated.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Double Oh Mosquito
8
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:29:05 -
[1837] - Quote
Just unsubed 2 accounts. One of them was a 10yr vet =\...
CCP doesn't listen to what the players want....
I built a corp recruited a douchebag, got robbed and made a new corp. Never to again recruit outsiders or join another corp so I became a lone wolf.
I mined, did missions, and explored for years and waited for the day to be able to build a pos, finally built it just to get war dec'd and blown up for no reason and lost it.
I took the day off from work to destroy and capture my very own customs offices from Interbus when that patch came out that day... I had the poco's for a year or so before I was war dec'd again for no reason and lost those...
Anything that I have tried to accomplish, build, or do in EVE gets destroyed due to the ever changing game mechanics and I've kinda had it...
We all know that it takes months of mining, mission running, skill training, and honest grinding to get anything of value in EVE. What is the reward for months worth of work? Not a damn thing! You can lose that huge amount of hard work in 5 seconds....I have watched for the past 10 yrs all my hard work go down the shitter...
I feel stupid for sticking around for so long hoping that CCP would help the ''lone wolfs'' but this is not that kind of game. It's either you join a mega alliance or get griefed into unsubbing.... Not really a ''sandbox'' if you ask me...
I don't PVP and after my first experience of getting wiped out in a corporation I don't trust anyone, I am just a humble miner/ mission runner manufacturing goods for the hungry war machine trying to make a living... Is that too much to ask?
At one time I had 4 accounts I was paying for.
I will be down to 1 after today.
I will keep my main active just to see if CCP smartens up. =)
Gonna be on the lookout for No Man's Sky and Star Citizen in the meantime and see what they have to offer. |
Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:30:07 -
[1838] - Quote
Mitch Taylor wrote:The genius of the old system was to make the icons different enough, for you to be able to focus on all the other EVE stuff going on, whilst scouting or looking for npcs or whatever people like to do. You could instantly see a change in your tertiary vision, and act. - BTW try the new icons in FW its a whole barrel of crap. - your overview is full of blobs.
What's the risk here? Well from reading these 100 pages of replies it seems people are calling these icons out for what they are - an ill thought out design, unwanted by the general player base.
The risk is, if you change the comfortable blanket too much, people might just decide to buy a new one, one which is much more their cup of tea, much warmer with new microfiber technology & doesn't sting them for 10 pound a month.
Glad to see someone like Mitch speaking up. Maybe if more, older respected players spoke up, ccp would possibly listen since they obviously haven't been listening so far. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:33:36 -
[1839] - Quote
"We are aware that a sudden and drastic update to some small but very important space symbols may have inherently vaporized several trillions of ISK from the economy. As pilots undocked expecting their familiar foes to be square brackets and crosses they unexpectedly came under attack by chevrons, diamonds, and house-shaped adversaries armed to the teeth. Some were so spooked and disoriented they began to fire on any geometric symbols in their vicinity. Others believed they were being attacked by their own warp bubbles and returned fireGǪ Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed."
"But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present."
- CCP Surge
ROFL, yeah about sums it up! At least in the blog they have plans for people to go in and make every single object in space customizable to Papa Bear, Mama Bear, and Baby Bear Red Crosses. That way people can divert much needed brain cells to functions like breathing, blinking, and digestion...
The Icons are great! And I have never been as entertained this much by a forum thread before! lol... Would get rid of some of the congestion around Jita, if all the people crying with guns to their heads threatening CCP they'll pull the trigger, actually do it....
The SIMS is a nice game, it's a Drama Simulator. Many of you seem have a natural talent for it.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31924
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 00:43:37 -
[1840] - Quote
Is there any chance in Valhalla players can be allowed to use their own icon packs or mod our UI. Please.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
|
Vila eNorvic
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 01:53:05 -
[1841] - Quote
The last paragraph of that blog is inexcusable - it's a complete ****-take.
In any other company addressing paying customers like that would bring instant dismissal.
Unless, of course, it was sanctioned by the CEO . . . |
Torxx Maxx
Almost Human.
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 02:29:22 -
[1842] - Quote
The dev blog sealed my three accounts fate, all three are forever gone from my control and I will never play this game again, I'll either sell them or give them away I'm done with CCP's flawed logic.. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 02:38:55 -
[1843] - Quote
Why would you like someones post who says they are leaving the game? That's kind of weird isn't it?
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Ronarke
Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now.
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 04:29:05 -
[1844] - Quote
I'm going to buck the system a little bit. I'm not seeing a problem with the new Icons, in fact, when dealing with POS structures, it has made things a bit easier for me.
Then again, I'm a carebear industrialist, not a master pvp artist.
Hmm... Maybe their BOT's don't recognize the new icons. |
Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
42
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 05:12:45 -
[1845] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/?_ga=1.183309925.2134134325.1394639977
wow what a response to 90 plus pages of ppl complaining basically just blowing all 90 plus pages off....Well guess that should be expected as took 3 weeks to get nothing
|
Circumstantial Evidence
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 06:46:52 -
[1846] - Quote
Looking at the post count for this thread, I see a huge number of posts are from about 30 unique characters with 10 or more posts each, that have probably been repeating the same opinion in different words, over and over again. I'm no exception, crossing into the 10-post category with this one ;)
CCP takes more into account than forum feedback to decide what to do, and, sometimes they don't go with what's popular. I'm looking forward to what they come up with, in regards the 90% scaling and NPC icon tweaks proposed in the new dev blog. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
151
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 09:54:30 -
[1847] - Quote
From reading the Dev Blog link that was posted by another player not CCP...
Yuppers, Eve is a harsh cruel place. I'll catch up in your precious sandbox later when it won't give migraine triggers from a flat out bad design along with a blatant unwillingness to even give the option to use the old icons while the 'customization' buffet is added. Wondering if, out of spite, CCP will leave out the old ones just to be, well, hardcore PC gamer master race.
Meh, time to go play other MMOs (see who gets my entertainment dollars, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, or No Man's Sky), and toss some of the account sub costs in a jar towards a PS4. After all, FFVII remake is finally going to happen.
For all the less hostile more constructive feedback given from Sisi, then that Blog of buying your own hype...
Wow. Just. Wow.
Day-um.
Mkay, Icelandic customer service could use some coaching classes, if that's the SoP on your volcanic chunk of rock! Giving the world Bjork doesn't give enough cute credits to pay that Dev Blog debt of 'whiff! miss!'
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
Kesta De'Kranken
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 10:19:38 -
[1848] - Quote
Typically arrogant response from CCP. No option to choose. Just a statement that user preference don't matter and that how we ingest information from our screens is up to CCP and not ourselves. "We'll dictate how you play the game and we don't care if you like it." You admit you have a problem with scaling and yet tell us to suffer with it until fixed (with no estimated completion date) and give us no remedy, even for the short term, of coping.
Extremely poor customer service and unbelieveably arrogant attitude.
Hilmar, you said Eve had transitioned from a Knowledge company to a Learning company after Incarana. Looks like you've reverted back to being a Knowledge company and forgotten the lessons of Incarana....or no longer care. |
Neovenator
Eat My Shorts Inc.
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 10:50:59 -
[1849] - Quote
Quote:Those that managed to adapt quickly in the early days of the great Iconocalypse of 2015 certainly profited handsomely from the confusion it sowed.
But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present.
CCP's response about "Icongate" reminds me to Apples responses to the customers with "Antennagate" (iPhone 4) and "Bendgate" (iPhone 6). It's like "You are using it wrong. We are right".
Groetjes, Neo.
|
Iphigeneia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:09:58 -
[1850] - Quote
Hmm.
Yep, I'm definitely disappointed by this blog. I really don't think it addressed half of the concerns that were brought up. Pity. |
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Sophia Mileghere
Agressive Fraction Killers
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:20:57 -
[1851] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Looking at the post count for this thread, I see a huge number of posts are from about 30 unique characters with 10 or more posts each, that have probably been repeating the same opinion in different words, over and over again. I'm no exception, crossing into the 10-post category with this one ;) CCP takes more into account than forum feedback to decide what to do, and, sometimes they don't go with what's popular. I'm looking forward to what they come up with, in regards the 90% scaling and NPC icon tweaks proposed in the new dev blog.
Certainly everybody does not write here in the forum. But I'm sure for everyone who writes here, there will be many more who do not even like the icons. So if CCP simply supposes that 90 sides are a minority, there they presumably lie wrong.
Red Deck wrote:Just an idea...
CCP, if you are really interested in knowing what people think about the new icons and how strongly they feel about the issue, why don't you create a poll and link it prominently from the launcher? I recall participating in a poll on new features in EVE published by CCP before...
Trust me when I say there is a lot more pissed people than you can see in this (already monumental) thread...
The poll might be super simple like
Choose one from: A) Love the new icons, keep the old ones buried. B) Mixed bag, no strong feelings either way. C) The new icons don't work for me, roll the whole thing back.
and as an extra yes/no question: D) Make using the old icons an option.
This should provide you with data enough to possibly reconsider your current course of action (or a solid justification to tell all of us in this thread very plainly to shut the **** up because we are clearly just an insignificant, even if vocal minority).
So that can be simply ascertained what the customers want, CCP should really put up the idea with the survey. So a survey gets itself relatively fast. If CCP did this, they would save all one amount of time and frustration. Of course they would have to put the survey fairly and neutrally and they should publish the result. Finally, CCP must implement the results only in the game.
Probably CCP assumes that the new icons should then disappear (or become optional). That's why I think there will be no survey. But hope dies last
CCP, a question I would still have. Because CSM does not speak to us: What exactly has said the CSM to the Icons? |
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
30
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:21:13 -
[1852] - Quote
I am speechless.
Especially the reasons who explains the change, who are all false...
Quote:Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat. We wanted to give players more icon granularity within ship groups and items. And we wanted to increase the skill ceiling of reading the grid at a glance [...] Objective failed, it takes a serious amount of time to analyze the battlefield BECAUSE of the granularity... With the new icons, the players will just depend more than before on the Fleet Commander to do anything, because it is human to go to the easier solution available (target broadcasted, targetting, shoot). It seems that the FCs didn't already have enough work to do...
The funny thing, is that I am pretty sure that I read - to explain the partial removal of fleet warp - that "the goal [...] is to encourage more individual fleet member participation". AKA making them using their brain... and at the same time, you make sure that the players will REFUSE to use their brain because of an overload of information...
Quote:A clearer system for identifying different objects in space. Intended for veterans and newbies alike to be able to better read situations and assess threat levels. A cruiser and a battleship represent wholly different tactical scenarios[...] With the old icons, the cruiser was with a smaller square than the battleship. When was the last time that you login into EVE ?
The "next steps section" are even ludicrous :
Quote:We agree with much of the feedback that the subtle interior fill to indicate NPCs is simply not drastic enough, so weGÇÖre looking at other ways to make NPC brackets more clearly identifiable compared to player-controlled ships.
Another common feedback was the drone icons were still too complex and easily confused with ships. WeGÇÖre also looking at ways to make drones on grid easier to separate from ships at a glance. A damn cross for ALL NPC like before and a damn "X" for ALL drones like before. Is that so hard for you to admit that you are the only ones in the world to have some uber-4K 37" monitors with IPS panel and so able to differenciate the concord BS from the player BS, etc.?
Quote:WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. In short, you seriously think that players will rely on the icons for everything. How cute...
The reality is that a properly overview settings will make the icons useless for decent players, because they will switch between tabs to identify what there is in the field instead of relying of the icons in visual. This will permit to maintain the analysis delay at minimum.
In short, it is the usual "The users don't know what they really want, we know best" moronic policy in action. I guess I found where the idiots who programmed the Start Screen of Windows 8 managed to take refuge after the commercial failure caused by this UI absurdity, they are in CCP now.
We should make a list about everything you will have to rollback in the future, I think you will need it. |
Farrah Abraham
Masters of Mayhem
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:35:34 -
[1853] - Quote
[quote]WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. [quote]
Forcing everyone to set all neutrals or unknowns to a different color on overview just to be able to spot them is not a success on your part. It makes it harder to see criminals or other baddies that newbies should have to watch out for. |
Farrah Abraham
Masters of Mayhem
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 11:40:55 -
[1854] - Quote
Btw, are we going to have to burn jita again before ccp takes action?? |
John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 12:22:13 -
[1855] - Quote
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Meh, time to go play other MMOs (see who gets my entertainment dollars, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, or No Man's Sky), and toss some of the account sub costs in a jar towards a PS4. After all, FFVII remake is finally going to happen.
I still hope there will be remedy for this fail, but meanwhile I've checked some alternatives and found Perpetuum as the most EVE-like game. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
198
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 12:38:08 -
[1856] - Quote
John Lawyer wrote:Jeven HouseBenyo wrote: Meh, time to go play other MMOs (see who gets my entertainment dollars, Elite Dangerous, Star Citizen, or No Man's Sky), and toss some of the account sub costs in a jar towards a PS4. After all, FFVII remake is finally going to happen.
I still hope there will be remedy for this fail, but meanwhile I've checked some alternatives and found Perpetuum as the most EVE-like game.
Xm...look nice..I will try it |
Circumstantial Evidence
190
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 13:41:17 -
[1857] - Quote
Farrah Abraham wrote:Btw, are we going to have to burn jita again before ccp takes action?? It worked or... at least helped, during the Incarna episode. Hundreds of players motivated enough to shoot the Jita monument 23/7 was quite extraordinary. The guys selling ammo probably thought it was great ;) But, it was everything combined: forum rage, in-game rage, and mass unsubs.
This game change is very different; it doesn't offend people as much as the planned "micro" transactions: fear (unfounded) about "gold ammo" and comparisons to luxury branded items in the real world costing hundreds and thousands, and why shouldn't EVE have items like that, so players could flaunt their wealth... ugh. Changes to overview icons simply don't offend on the same level as what went down during Incarna.
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Desert Ice78
Gryphons of the Western Wind
492
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 14:38:27 -
[1858] - Quote
That new dev blog is right up there with Zulu's now fabled $1000 jeans blog.
I am a pod pilot:
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 15:07:15 -
[1859] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:.................... Hundreds of players motivated enough to shoot the Jita monument 23/7 was quite extraordinary. The guys selling ammo probably thought it was great ;) But, it was everything combined: forum rage, in-game rage, and mass unsubs.
This game change is very different; it doesn't offend people as much as the planned "micro" transactions: fear (unfounded) about "gold ammo" and comparisons to luxury branded items in the real world costing hundreds and thousands, and why shouldn't EVE have items like that, so players could flaunt their wealth... ugh. Changes to overview icons simply don't offend on the same level as what went down during Incarna.
Guess you you right there, all those "little" frustrations they add with the latest expansions wont lead to some uproar but rather end in a whimper ..... and thats actually tragic for CCP, as they will continue to loose players in a steady trickle instead of having to go through some cleaning storm. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 15:15:03 -
[1860] - Quote
I think the icons in 'Club Penguin' have been the same since beta. Maybe you'll all be happier waddling around there. They do change backgrounds from time to time though. Players might change their penguins colors or clothes, so you might still have to adapt a bit everytime you log in.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
500
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 16:31:17 -
[1861] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:I think the icons in 'Club Penguin' have been the same since beta. Maybe you'll all be happier waddling around there. They do change backgrounds from time to time though. Players might change their penguins colors or clothes, so you might still have to adapt a bit everytime you log in.
Fanboi going to fanboi
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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SamuraiJack
Tritanium Industries and Technology Backseat Promises
128
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 16:44:07 -
[1862] - Quote
Its ok. When CCP deliver Fozzie Sov with the same quality and effort... he wont have any sov.
Cos if they cant even deliver and get the UI workable... how are we to trust them to fix the broken POS and Sov mechanics?
And small subnote... The 90% scaling usage came from CCP changing the font ages back and not allowing us to use a different size or edit it. So they added in scaling to "address" that problem.
And now... here we are. With a broken UI engine that wont scale or do AA.
Doesnt inspire confidence.
SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
500
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 16:48:41 -
[1863] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Circumstantial Evidence wrote:.................... Hundreds of players motivated enough to shoot the Jita monument 23/7 was quite extraordinary. The guys selling ammo probably thought it was great ;) But, it was everything combined: forum rage, in-game rage, and mass unsubs.
This game change is very different; it doesn't offend people as much as the planned "micro" transactions: fear (unfounded) about "gold ammo" and comparisons to luxury branded items in the real world costing hundreds and thousands, and why shouldn't EVE have items like that, so players could flaunt their wealth... ugh. Changes to overview icons simply don't offend on the same level as what went down during Incarna.
Guess you you right there, all those "little" frustrations they add with the latest expansions wont lead to some uproar but rather end in a whimper ..... and thats actually tragic for CCP, as they will continue to loose players in a steady trickle instead of having to go through some cleaning storm.
The current rage is a slow burn, leading people just not to log back in. It wasnt so long ago that People would be starting threads about how on "this weekend" we were going to try for the record with concurrent users online, dev's would then chime in and root for everyone. Now, I never see devs talking about concurrent users online or about how subscriptions are growing. Instead all I see is the admittedly anecdotal evidence of lower and lower concurrent user numbers when I log on. Last night when I logged it was a mere 18k in prime US time and there was no action at all in our pipe. Fanbois excuse the user number slide by saying EVE is an old game, and old games bleed players. I think that is a cop out. When EVE was true to its ideals, eve grew. When eve started tinkering with core game play and worrying about being more wow like with its achievements and making the game new user friendly is when the train went off the rail and EVE started losing more old players then it gained new players.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Sere O'Asis
Origin Stories
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 17:06:33 -
[1864] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:I think the icons in 'Club Penguin' have been the same since beta. Maybe you'll all be happier waddling around there. They do change backgrounds from time to time though. Players might change their penguins colors or clothes, so you might still have to adapt a bit everytime you log in.
Rio Bravo, I like you. You are persistent in advocating your positions, and blunt.
Because of your persistence in saying the new icons looked good, I logged into the game at work and discovered the new icons were clear, were easy to identify, and didn't give me headaches.
I discovered the sun icon had little dots around it. I had never seen those. I had never seen any of the details on the new icons.
My monitor at work is a 24 inch Dell, my gaming screen at home is a 27 inch Crossover. Both are two years old. Each renders the game beautifully, except for the new icons, which are displayed quite differently. I spent 45 minutes trying different resolutions, and the best I could get on my 27 inch Crossover was four faint dots around the sun icon. I am not a programing/IT person, and as this is my first MMO I do not have the experience with other games to even guess why this is happening.
The Crossover is a better screen, produces a crisper picture then the Dell at work, why it does such a poor job of rendering the new icons I have no idea. It should produce a better picture than the Dell. It produces a better picture for everything BUT the new icons.
Perhaps this info will help.
Frankly Rio Bravo, I thought initially you were advocating your position without justification. I was wrong.
I still get headaches. I have cancelled my subscriptions. I had thought to resub should this issue ever be sorted out......until I read the devblog........
Someone needs to give CCP Surge a handbook on customer service.
We are talking about disposable income, entertainment dollars (in my case). I do not have to spend my game time, play time, or money on EVE. I choose to.
To paraphrase: But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present.
I agree, and so is real life. After reading this blog, I will not be back, period.
Unlike many, I will not leave my stuff in my hangar. I intend to get blown up a few more times, sell the remainder, take my isk to Amarr, and buy hulls and give them away. My annual subscription does not end until next year, but I will be gone by mid-July. |
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 18:33:14 -
[1865] - Quote
Again, I'm very happy with the new Icon set.
After a few bugs are hammered out, I think Carnyx is the start good things to come.
if CCP ever makes the old Icons an option, I'd view it as a good thing but only for those with vision issues.
But for the rest of you frothing ranters:
After almost 100 pages, I'd just like to take a moment and sum up majority of this threadnaught,
What you are saying:
"I don't like the way CCP told me to HTFU, and deal with it, so I'm quitting." "I don't like the way CCP ignores my preferences, so I'm quitting" "I don't like the way CCP never changes anything, so I'm quitting" I don't like the way CCP changes everything, so I'm quitting"
But what you are doing:
I'm going to come on these forums and be a negative shiptoaster, even though i don't play anymore. I'm going to whine about how CCP treats it's customers even though I haven't re-subbed in eons. I'm going to vomit my self entitlement because I think i own CCP because I subscribe to their service. I'm going to call those who like the changes FanBoi because they cast light on my sence of entitlement.
If you are going to quit, just quit. And don't post for 6 months afterwards either. Your quitting makes your opinions irrelevant.
But you won't quit. Not when it truly comes down to it.
You will be back. Not the particular alt you posted your rage quit with......that will be biomassed. But your main? The one you won't post with on here because you would need to eat crow in a month? That one will be back. If it ever ever left at all.
Just like the time you came back ( Or never really left...) After your rage quit when Jump fatigue was implemented. Just like the time you came back when ISBoxer was **** canned. Just like the time you came back when Skynetting was eliminated.
You will be back. You know it, I know it, and CCP knows it.
That's why they ignore your " MAH ICON 90% BLURRY WARBLEGARBLEBLAAAAARGH" rant.
This change is for the better. This change is a small piece of things to come, and fits in with other larger changes. You will change too.
Right after you've had your little cry.
And for those of the minority who truly walk away and never return, here is the obligatory:
Can I has yer stuffs? And thanks for pre-washing it with your tears.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
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Bernard Dupont
C0NATUS Echoes of Nowhere
15
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 18:34:20 -
[1866] - Quote
CCP Surge wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:i want the old icons back,
im afraid since the majority of the community is saying the same. ccp has put on the wall module and are no longer paying any attention to this thread. That's not true. We're definitely still keeping tabs on this thread and assessing the situation. Just don't expect any knee-jerk reactions from us so soon. For now keep the feedback coming, keep it constructive. Thanks
Why have we not the choice ? Is it too hard for ccp developper to make these choice in option ? Or are u affraid that most people ll choose old UI ? |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
503
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 19:02:44 -
[1867] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote: Again, I'm very happy with the new Icon set.
After a few bugs are hammered out, I think Carnyx is the start good things to come.
if CCP ever makes the old Icons an option, I'd view it as a good thing but only for those with vision issues.
But for the rest of you frothing ranters:
After almost 100 pages, I'd just like to take a moment and sum up majority of this threadnaught,
What you are saying:
"I don't like the way CCP told me to HTFU, and deal with it, so I'm quitting." "I don't like the way CCP ignores my preferences, so I'm quitting" "I don't like the way CCP never changes anything, so I'm quitting" I don't like the way CCP changes everything, so I'm quitting"
But what you are doing:
I'm going to come on these forums and be a negative shiptoaster, even though i don't play anymore. I'm going to whine about how CCP treats it's customers even though I haven't re-subbed in eons. I'm going to vomit my self entitlement because I think i own CCP because I subscribe to their service. I'm going to call those who like the changes FanBoi because they cast light on my sence of entitlement.
If you are going to quit, just quit. And don't post for 6 months afterwards either. Your quitting makes your opinions irrelevant.
But you won't quit. Not when it truly comes down to it.
You will be back. Not the particular alt you posted your rage quit with......that will be biomassed. But your main? The one you won't post with on here because you would need to eat crow in a month? That one will be back. If it ever ever left at all.
Just like the time you came back ( Or never really left...) After your rage quit when Jump fatigue was implemented. Just like the time you came back when ISBoxer was **** canned. Just like the time you came back when Skynetting was eliminated.
You will be back. You know it, I know it, and CCP knows it.
That's why they ignore your " MAH ICON 90% BLURRY WARBLEGARBLEBLAAAAARGH" rant.
This change is for the better. This change is a small piece of things to come, and fits in with other larger changes. You will change too.
Right after you've had your little cry.
And for those of the minority who truly walk away and never return, here is the obligatory:
Can I has yer stuffs? And thanks for pre-washing it with your tears.
Dan
Faniboi look at the numbers. People play and/or come back only when expansions are good and offer new and exciting content. They quit when expansions are bad. CCP is basically a one trick pony right now. Dust didnt work out so well, that vampire thing is dead, and Valkyrie is just a promise for tomorrow. Eve is CCP's only leg to stand on right now and the numbers as well as their direction dont look good. People coming here to complain is fundamentally a good thing for eve, it shows they have investment in the game and dont want to leave. Its when they stop coming here and the forums become just a sounding board for faniboi yes men back slapping ccp for whatever that the game is cooked and done.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Ida Aurlien
Cerberus Federation Industrial Division Gentlemen's.Parlor
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 19:39:30 -
[1868] - Quote
LOL you can really see the "Decoy's" ... Their the 1's defending all ccp moves... smells like they are trying to put a different spin on reality |
Shuckstar
Tax Haters Evaders Corp
303
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 20:48:23 -
[1869] - Quote
Quote:http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/
So basically **** you players, you are all wrong and don't play the same game that the Devs do, and all your feedback is useless because we pretend to listen then give you the middle finger anyway.
CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 21:05:30 -
[1870] - Quote
Bernard Dupont wrote:Why have we not the choice ? Is it too hard for ccp developper to make these choice in option ? Or are u affraid that most people ll choose old UI ?
Dude, the Dev blog said they are working on a 90% scaling fix and there are plans to make the icons set up customizable. What are you still crying about?
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
49
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 21:12:20 -
[1871] - Quote
Don-¦t you ever get tired, Rio Bravo? Or do you have serious comprehension problems? Even someon like you - who likes the new icons - could have learned that different people dislike the new iconset for quite different reasons .....
.... trolling with bait then?
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 21:58:33 -
[1872] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Don-¦t you ever get tired, Rio Bravo? Or do you have serious comprehension problems? Even someone like you - who likes the new icons - could have learned that different people dislike the new iconset for quite different reasons .....
.... trolling with bait then?
"Mea culpa to those affected. Making the icons at least usable at 90% scaling is one of our top priorities for improvement, along with others outlined below."
-CCP Surge
"Improve NPC and player ship distinction
We agree with much of the feedback that the subtle interior fill to indicate NPCs is simply not drastic enough, so weGÇÖre looking at other ways to make NPC brackets more clearly identifiable compared to player-controlled ships. Improve drone distinction
Another common feedback was the drone icons were still too complex and easily confused with ships. WeGÇÖre also looking at ways to make drones on grid easier to separate from ships at a glance. Add icons to overview customization
WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. This will also double as an in-client legend and visual guide to learning the new icons faster."
-CCP Surge
Hope that helps you a little bit...could have read it yourself with out me turning the pages for you. Am I a fanboi or troll because I actually read the stuff I post about? Or you mad bro, because I keep throwing water on the firey hate fest?
They are working on it...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
833
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 22:04:04 -
[1873] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:They are working on it...
Im working on winning the lottery, I wouldnt bet against me not doing that before these icons are sorted. |
Bernard Dupont
C0NATUS Echoes of Nowhere
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 22:33:51 -
[1874] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Bernard Dupont wrote:Why have we not the choice ? Is it too hard for ccp developper to make these choice in option ? Or are u affraid that most people ll choose old UI ? Dude, the Dev blog said they are working on a 90% scaling fix and there are plans to make the icons set up customizable. What are you still crying about?
Because annoncement is not yet follow by acts...to be continued... |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 22:41:50 -
[1875] - Quote
Bernard Dupont wrote:Because annoncement is not yet follow by acts...to be continued...
Then why post about something before they finish the thing they said they were working on? All you can say is we don't believe you...which is a waste of time.
CCP, can we get a skill book called 'Common Sense'? Maybe make it so you have to train it to level IV in game, before you can post in the forums.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 22:50:12 -
[1876] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Bernard Dupont wrote:Because annoncement is not yet follow by acts...to be continued... Then why post about something before they finish the thing they said they were working on? All you can say is we don't believe you...which is a waste of time.
Because there is a "feature" on the live server that in its current state clearly belongs on the test server. That what sissi is for...testing unfinished, half baked stuff. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 22:53:39 -
[1877] - Quote
Natascha Kerenski wrote:Because there is a "feature" on the live server that in its current state clearly belongs on the test server. That what sissi is for...testing unfinished, half baked stuff.
Well, yeah, could have been released differently I guess...maybe it was a time constraint. Maybe not 100% ready, but then not everyone goes on SISI either.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
560
|
Posted - 2015.06.19 23:59:04 -
[1878] - Quote
I have removed a blatant trolling post and one quoting it.
Quote:5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive, and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
ISD Decoy
Captain
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
518
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 00:36:25 -
[1879] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Bernard Dupont wrote:Because annoncement is not yet follow by acts...to be continued... Then why post about something before they finish the thing they said they were working on? All you can say is we don't believe you...which is a waste of time. CCP, can we get a skill book called 'Common Sense'? Maybe make it so you have to train it to level IV in game, before you can post in the forums.
No we can say let us use the old icons while they are "working on it." CCP doesnt want to let the players use the old icons because they know that once people turn them off it will become just like captain quarters and the map, dead end content that is being used by almost nobody.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
162
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 00:43:20 -
[1880] - Quote
Go ahead, mock the ones that are leaving over Icongate. Call us touchy, stubborn, non-evolving knuckle draggers the game would be better without since we're vision impaired, color blind, stuck with monitors that are sub-par, and won't keep drinking the Kool-Aid.
Then when something 'little' or big comes out that is a make or break for you, get used to it, sukk it up, and grow up. The same message we're getting as some leave for better customer service skies.
By that time however, you might be a little lonely in your howls and tear offerings, as there might not be as many to care either way.
Call it sudden rage (Incarna style) or a slow burn. The numbers don't play favorites. Checking over at Eve-Offline, and watching the average logged in account numbers (slowly I will admit) sink further down shows in simple digits, there is a growing problem that is not being repaired. Head in the sand actions won't fix that. Neither will more shiny SKINs to pick from.
No Vampire the Masquerade game. Dust not doing what was hoped. Eve Online numbers dripping away.
CCP better hope there's enough people willing to spring for the high end system and hardware for their VR game. Floating a business budget of Plex and Aurum purchase will only go so far. Best of luck with that.
I'll check now and again, see if the game is once again playable without agony. Otherwise, meh. I have other places to throw the entertainment dollar, as I've stated before. Have your sandbox, it needs scooping as it smells.
>Jeven
Full time industrialist, part time pirate, snark cranked to 11 at all times.
Overkill loss magnet. Orphaned drone adopter.
It's not paranoia, it's Eve Online!
Experience: the thing you needed right before you received it.
WTB moar wingy bits!
|
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Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 00:54:52 -
[1881] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Natascha Kerenski wrote:Because there is a "feature" on the live server that in its current state clearly belongs on the test server. That what sissi is for...testing unfinished, half baked stuff. Well, yeah, could have been released differently I guess...maybe it was a time constraint. Maybe not 100% ready, but then not everyone goes on SISI either. Don't forget...the dev's are proud of their game, they aren't going to ruin it just to spite players, that would be weird... Just be patient.
1. Yes not everyone goes on SISI...but there was enough feedback when it still was on SISI that seems to be unheard.
2. Yes the Dev's are proud of their game...but i get more and more the impression those dev's that are responsible for this aren't playing the same game that i play.
and no RIO..i am the biggest fanboi, but in my humble opinion this also means that you have to step up with criticism.
and to CCP SURGE ...An error doesn't become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.
GÇ£Fighting for peace is like having sex for virginity."
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
841
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 09:20:16 -
[1882] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Bernard Dupont wrote:Because annoncement is not yet follow by acts...to be continued... Then why post about something before they finish the thing they said they were working on? All you can say is we don't believe you...which is a waste of time. CCP, can we get a skill book called 'Common Sense'? Maybe make it so you have to train it to level IV in game, before you can post in the forums. No we can say let us use the old icons while they are "working on it." CCP doesnt want to let the players use the old icons because they know that once people turn them off it will become just like captain quarters and the map, dead end content that is being used by almost nobody.
If it was my game, I think id rather have dead end content that wasnt used than lose subscribers. Content doesnt generate -ú-ú-ú-ú-ú-ú, subscribers do. |
OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
176
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 12:07:08 -
[1883] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Orm Magnustat wrote:Don-¦t you ever get tired, Rio Bravo? Or do you have serious comprehension problems? Even someone like you - who likes the new icons - could have learned that different people dislike the new iconset for quite different reasons .....
.... trolling with bait then? "Mea culpa to those affected. Making the icons at least usable at 90% scaling is one of our top priorities for improvement, along with others outlined below." -CCP Surge "Improve NPC and player ship distinction We agree with much of the feedback that the subtle interior fill to indicate NPCs is simply not drastic enough, so weGÇÖre looking at other ways to make NPC brackets more clearly identifiable compared to player-controlled ships. Improve drone distinction Another common feedback was the drone icons were still too complex and easily confused with ships. WeGÇÖre also looking at ways to make drones on grid easier to separate from ships at a glance. Add icons to overview customization WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. This will also double as an in-client legend and visual guide to learning the new icons faster." -CCP Surge Hope that helps you a little bit...could have read it yourself with out me turning the pages for you. Am I a fanboi or troll because I actually read the stuff I post about? Or you mad bro, because I keep throwing water on the fiery hate-fest? They are working on it... This means just sh*t. Old UI was working. We ALL loved it. Did not need change. Did not need improvement. Did not need Fozzie-like-sh*t. Single thing needed was for some to justify their payment. Period. Also "working on it" means we "will see in the future bla-bla". As we all know only too well.
|
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
214
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 14:11:06 -
[1884] - Quote
I think the New lead game designer last year, and the new lead art director, a few days ago, explains this. New leads, want to put their mark on the game. Didnt learn from Incarna because it was not THEIR asses on the line that time.
Now the new people think.. "hmm, where should I make my mark... hey, some UI elements haven't been changed much in the last ten years, Lets plant that down as my personal flag"
That in my opnion also explains CCP's stubbornness with this, and their attitute to the feedback. It's not about improvements, it's just about pride.. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 15:45:01 -
[1885] - Quote
Eraza wrote:I think the New lead game designer last year, and the new lead art director, a few days ago, explains this. New leads, want to put their mark on the game. Didnt learn from Incarna because it was not THEIR asses on the line that time.
Now the new people think.. "hmm, where should I make my mark... hey, some UI elements haven't been changed much in the last ten years, Lets plant that down as my personal flag"
That in my opnion also explains CCP's stubbornness with this, and their attitute to the feedback. It's not about improvements, it's just about pride..
I now can't play this game because of my eyesight, there are way to may different tiny icons on the field to make any quick decision in battles so I'm forced to leave the game I love.
For whatever reasons they chose to ignore the people who pay there salaries it's already written in stone and we will never have the far superior icons back in any form, if it's because of pride or a coder just wanting his/her name on an addition to what was a great game it's bacause of you that I am forced to find a better place to spend my money.
Thanks for running me off CCP, was fun while it lasted. |
Lingustica
Moonraker Mutual Industries Co operative Fortuna Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 16:30:06 -
[1886] - Quote
Eraza wrote:I think the New lead game designer last year, and the new lead art director, a few days ago, explains this. New leads, want to put their mark on the game. Didnt learn from Incarna because it was not THEIR asses on the line that time.
Now the new people think.. "hmm, where should I make my mark... hey, some UI elements haven't been changed much in the last ten years, Lets plant that down as my personal flag"
That in my opnion also explains CCP's stubbornness with this, and their attitute to the feedback. It's not about improvements, it's just about pride..
I agree with this...
Change for the sake of change, improvement failure on so many levels.. and terrible implementation and a quite disrespectful blog to boot.... |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
159
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 17:44:01 -
[1887] - Quote
Eraza wrote:I think the New lead game designer last year, and the new lead art director, a few days ago, explains this. New leads, want to put their mark on the game. Didnt learn from Incarna because it was not THEIR asses on the line that time.
Now the new people think.. "hmm, where should I make my mark... hey, some UI elements haven't been changed much in the last ten years, Lets plant that down as my personal flag"
That in my opnion also explains CCP's stubbornness with this, and their attitute to the feedback. It's not about improvements, it's just about pride..
Also from the dev blog "But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present."
But all that doesn't mean that EVE will survive the change without mercy. That UI element change has hurt the ability for a number of players to physically work with the game. It was the wrong thing to do and it was strongly pointed out.
Maybe CCP will do things that offset this negative change, maybe not. Changing the icons to be more human friendly again would be a good step.
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
579
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 18:54:05 -
[1888] - Quote
kai il wrote:The problem with these new icon is "At a glance" they are to detailed and vague at the same time, one of my alliance mates linked a image that shows this, a small 11v10 fight on sisi https://i.imgur.com/ighoK8j.png "at a glance" most of the icons look the same, looking again closely you can see the difference. But this was taken during AT practice, And the entire time I was flying the new icons were nothing ore than a eye sore if I wanted to look at the range I was from another ship or object the first thing my eyes went to were these icons, it was beyond distracting. And the only time I really use the icons in a pvp setting is not looking at my overview column but looking in space to see whats near me,and my looking at that image once again its a cluster **** of whats what. This is made worse because drones frigates and wrecks are all triangles of the same size. This is not a good change and it effects THE PRIMARY way we interact with things in eve online, This is not bitter vets being bitter at change, this is people being upset at changes that are bad.
Good thing I don't PvP in spaceships atm, otherwise they would be less reason to login anymore.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 21:35:50 -
[1889] - Quote
Icons? Are there NEW icons?...oh wait your still posting about the icons they released three weeks ago... I thought there were NEW icons in the present, heh, see how I could make that mistake? They've been here so long now, they aren't NEW anymore...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
582
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 21:44:52 -
[1890] - Quote
They are not new, they are not old, they are just stuck in limbo.
And they'll keep siphoning overall player activity lower because of that.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
|
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 22:16:56 -
[1891] - Quote
Been so much talk of change...thought they might have introduced a whole set of new ones.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
583
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 22:56:44 -
[1892] - Quote
DexterShark wrote:The CCP response to this thread is painful.
Let me make this easy for you, CCP:-
[ ] This is a player ship, the bigger the size, the bigger the ship class. A rectangle shape is an industrial ship.
+ This is an NPC, the bigger the size, the bigger the ship class. A red cross is a rat / hostile, white is concord / peaceful.
x This is a drone.
If I want to see the specific type of ship or drone, I look at the name and category in the overview list.
Indeed so.
Only a contrasting system such as this could function so well for 12 years straight - a system with the icons present on our very keyboards no less!
P.S. Sony controllers are also better than its competition due to the fact that they took up all the best & irreducible prime symbols/geometric shapes: O, [ ], X & /\.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
524
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 23:02:58 -
[1893] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Icons? Are there NEW icons?...oh wait your still posting about the icons they released three weeks ago... I thought there were NEW icons in the present, heh, see how I could make that mistake? They've been here so long now, they aren't NEW anymore...
How about the broken icons? Would that agree you failboi soul? Or dont you agree with CCP that the recently introduced icons are subpar?
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 23:27:28 -
[1894] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:BTW only 24k concurrent users logged in right now in prime time US. CCP's current direction doesnt seem to be bringing in new users while its antagonizing and driving away its old users. I guess you will be happy when its only you the other few faibois and the ccp devs left to circle jerk each other.
Maybe if folks didn't create such drama, and everyone posted without all the emo venom, it wouldn't escalate into people quitting or cutting themselves... The Icons are good, they are an improvement, for all the reasons in the dev blog. If your hardware is barfing when it has to render it, CCP said they are working on it and don't panic. It's counter productive to keep things static for years and years, some of us like being surprised by new things. Ships, modules, game mechanics, streamlining, etc...
Frankly, if you have gotten so lazy playing EvE, that you can't handle any new learning curve at all...aren't you bored anyways? So hoping you cry yourself to sleep and you wake up with a new perspective. You can't keep self-destructing when new things happen in the game, the icons are great. Are you going to have a spaz over the new Domi look too? I am sorry if you have trouble understanding EvE's new Icons. Isn't there an old New Eden saying about WoW being a sleuce for those who couldn't hack EvE?...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
585
|
Posted - 2015.06.20 23:55:34 -
[1895] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote: Maybe if folks didn't create such drama, and everyone posted without all the emo venom, it wouldn't escalate into people quitting or cutting themselves...
I think the feedback during the SiSi testing phase was most civil, and is recorded as such for everyone to see in that 11-page thread.
Quote:The Icons are good, they are an improvement,
They are indistinguishable, unreadable and at the same time overflowing with information, which in the case of EVE's PvP engagements becomes noise.
They are an improvement, like a octagon wheel is an improvement on a regular bicycle.
Quote:Frankly, if you have gotten so lazy playing EvE, that you can't handle any new learning curve at all...
I'm all for increased complexity erryday. Just not redundant complexity.
Survival of the fittest will most definitely happen - We had 28k PCU this Friday and 31k tonight, so I guess the rest couldn't handle the learning curve.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
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Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 00:15:57 -
[1896] - Quote
Bzzz...traffic news: attention there is a trollish ghost driver on the road to doomheim!
a astonished co-driver (that looks like Rio Bravo) : wait what....one? there are hundreds of them.
GÇ£Fighting for peace is like having sex for virginity."
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Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
66
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 01:10:11 -
[1897] - Quote
It's great to see people being brought together to fight for something they believe so strongly in such as Icongate,something that affects so many players gameplay and those thinking not just about themselves but others that are so affected by this.
Some would say don't feed the troll but you have helped to highlight the strength of feeling so Bravo for keeping this thread growing Rio.
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 03:59:18 -
[1898] - Quote
Eke Patang wrote:Some would say don't feed the troll but you have helped to highlight the strength of feeling so Bravo for keeping this thread growing Rio.
Lol, yeah, I know the graphics rendering hasn't been the same for everyone. The 90% resize stuff and mushy icons, I hear the concerns from that end...With the screen crowded with bracket icons, remember what the blog said. You can customize much of that away in the custom overview menu, set brackets and things...Might take a few minutes of time though.
The 'I am confused' thing is pathetically weird. Or the 'I like old EvE better'. The game will advance with time... Same with the counting the numbers on who logs in and doesn't. Kind of what I was reffering to in my last post about taking the game hostage. Hoping that CCP loses money, and if you can accelerate that by angry posting you will. You don't like the Icons, leave...don't just tell us your leaving then post for a month, about how your leaving/left. Other games don't give you half the input that this game does. In many ways I see the 'fans' ruining it, not letting CCP do their job....what if the icons are to compliment other releases later? You wouldn't know...
Most of the posts on this thread that quote me are really just to trash me, and don't address the valid points I post about.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 04:19:01 -
[1899] - Quote
How are the Icons 'Overflowing with information'? It's an Icon, not a 200 word essay. You look at it, your brain makes a check mark, your eyes move on. Overflowing is a bit rich don't you think?
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
38
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 09:59:04 -
[1900] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:[EDIT: One more thing, if this is what CCP bases their descision making process on...all this nonsense input, then I have some advice for them. CCP you've been too accomodating to your 'fan base'. These guys don't appreciate the amount of back and forth they get compared to other games...They think they own it. Maybe you've been too democratic CCP, and need to start creating a work of art that people will respect and admire from your position of authority and oversight. We trust your judgement. Instead of being pulled in a million directions by obvious trolls, with a misplaced sense of self-importance. Feed back should be for bugs and miner qwerks, not fundamentals or complete roll-backs. Don't let 'em do it to you...They just get off on getting their own way when they yell at you...like little baby la-la's. lol... The developers of Star Wars Galaxies didn't care of feedback and did everything they wanted but not what the players wanted, and released dreadful patchs like NGE and others ones. Officially, it was to stop the going down of the subscribers number, but it just made it even worse than before. The CEO of Sony Entertainment made excuses and admitted that they should have listened to the players, but it was after the game was closed...
Let's CCP do that too, maybe this way they will learn to crush their pride, but it will be probably too late. Whatever what you say, the fact is the game has less logged players than before, and it is not a good sign, even for you.
Quote:Most of the posts on this thread that quote me are really just to trash me, and don't address the valid points I post about. It is just that you can't realize your points are invalid, because of your lack of PVP experience (according to killboards).
You can't see the bad consequences of new icons for exemple in a fleet fight where you can find hundred of friends/foes that you have to analyze with 25 different icons, and a potential confusion with structures ones if they are activated in visual too. And I only speak about the important ones (so 25 for my vision of the game), because there are now exactly 100 differents icons according to the sheet I use for reference.
Before that, there was 6 or 7 icons who matters (squared one, wreck, drone, containers), so I could analyze the situation of a fight within few seconds just by the visual.
So yes, it is an overflow of information in real battle situation, something that you can't understand. In fact, it would be easily compensated by the overview and even in visual if there was the possibility to use at least 10 differents tabs in overview, I had some ideas of workaround for that. But we have only 5.
Oh well, I shouldn't complain after all. In the initial version, there was supposed to have 27 DRONE icons for exemple, not 7... But that just means that CCP don't play at EVE and so don't "get" it. EVE is supposed to be a game, not a job, but CCP want to make it like one.
Still, I don't really know if the icongate will make some players leave. At minimum, it will make some players renounce to parts of the gameplay (I will certainly do less PVP than before. As it didn't already go down with the jump gate animation... I left few months because of that, why not reiterate...). But leavers will do probably because of a burnout caused by multiple recent bad moves from CCP. Maybe it don't affect you for the moment, but it will in the long term (market with less stuff, less contact with players, etc.). |
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
847
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 10:04:51 -
[1901] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Maybe if folks didn't create such drama, and everyone posted without all the emo venom, it wouldn't escalate into people quitting or cutting themselves...
been unable to play the game ive been part of for 6 years because of these changes, is not a drama. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
211
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 12:40:40 -
[1902] - Quote
What is SISI? I playing from 8 years and never heard about that SISI |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
529
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 13:33:15 -
[1903] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:BTW only 24k concurrent users logged in right now in prime time US. CCP's current direction doesnt seem to be bringing in new users while its antagonizing and driving away its old users. I guess you will be happy when its only you the other few faibois and the ccp devs left to circle jerk each other. Maybe if folks didn't create such drama, and everyone posted without all the emo venom, it wouldn't escalate into people quitting or cutting themselves... The Icons are good, they are an improvement, for all the reasons in the dev blog. If your hardware is barfing when it has to render it, CCP said they are working on it and don't panic. It's counter productive to keep things static for years and years, some of us like being surprised by new things. Ships, modules, game mechanics, streamlining, etc... Frankly, if you have gotten so lazy playing EvE, that you can't handle any new learning curve at all...aren't you bored anyways? So hoping you cry yourself to sleep and you wake up with a new perspective. You can't keep self-destructing when new things happen in the game, the icons are great. Are you going to have a spaz over the new Domi look too? I am sorry if you have trouble understanding EvE's new Icons. Isn't there an old New Eden saying about WoW being a sleuce for those who couldn't hack EvE?... EDIT: One more thing, if this is what CCP bases their descision making process on...all this nonsense input, then I have some advice for them. CCP you've been too accomodating to your 'fan base'. These guys don't appreciate the amount of back and forth they get compared to other games...They think they own it. Maybe you've been too democratic CCP, and need to start creating a work of art that people will respect and admire from your position of authority and oversight. We trust your judgement. Instead of being pulled in a million directions by obvious trolls, with a misplaced sense of self-importance. Feed back should be for bugs and miner qwerks, not fundamentals or complete roll-backs. Don't let 'em do it to you...They just get off on getting their own way when they yell at you...like little baby la-la's. lol... Had to be said...
Black is white, night is day, up is down, and "the icons are good, they are an improvement." Sure they are..... So basically, your position is, its not the icons, its not you, its everybody else, and if everybody would just see it your way, everything would be good. "Unfortunately," it seems that most of the folk dont agree with you.
I have yet to actually meet someone in game who likes the icons. I have met plenty that hate them. The only real question is how much they hate them. Right now, I havent met many who are intending to up and quit as a result of the icons (not like jump fat, where I know a fair number who have left and not returned), but it has put folk on edge waiting for that one more thing to push them over, where they leave and dont come back. Thats the legacy of these icons. Its one more broken piece of nonsense chipping away at player loyalty. Having CCP come and insult its playerbase in a flippant blog doesnt help either.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Kesta De'Kranken
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 14:39:50 -
[1904] - Quote
21June2015: Subscription Cancelled. I literally just CANNOT SEE to play this game. Cancellation notification was essentially:
1. How DARE you tell me how to ingest information in the game. 2. I have very bad eyesight and the change IS NOT SENSITIVE to people who have bad vision... 3. That saying my Overview was "not properly managed", and that CCP knows best how to display information, is complete BULL!@#$. 4. That CCP Surge's post was stupid insensitive to people with vision problems and is very similar to Metropolitan Edison's response to outrage over Three Mile Island... ie "who are you to question us..." 5. That I pay your salaries (oops..not anymore) and you should have listened to me/us. 6. I'll be back when you admit your mistake AND allow us MULTIPLE CHOICES in how we view information...
I've only been here a year and so don't have much invested in real time and money. ... so I'll go play MechWarrior.
I'm going to sit back and watch the subscription numbers. I'll be very sad to see if people lose their jobs over this, but if you disregard the players in this game, you do so at your peril.
Some men just want to watch the world burn....and drink a beer and eat popcorn while it does so....
It's a tough Universe out there isn't it CCP.....you want to "flip the bird" at me and tell me to "suck it up"???
Well OK BIG MAN... here's me flipping you back... |
Constantin Makanen
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 15:50:05 -
[1905] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:[quote=Rio Bravo]The developers of Star Wars Galaxies didn't care of feedback and did everything they wanted but not what the players wanted, and released dreadful patchs like NGE and others ones. Officially, it was to stop the going down of the subscribers number, but it just made it even worse than before. The CEO of Sony Entertainment made excuses and admitted that they should have listened to the players, but it was after the game was closed...
Let's CCP do that too, maybe this way they will learn to crush their pride, but it will be probably too late. Whatever what you say, the fact is the game has less logged players than before, and it is not a good sign, even for you.
Yeah, lets quit because of some icons, that still are work in progress. If people are ready to quit and kill the whole game, by wishing CCP less money, just because of this, they didnt enjoy the game long before the new icons...
Because thats what a fan of a game does. Quit and kill off the game, so no future improvement will follow. Some people here are real jerks. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
40
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 15:56:26 -
[1906] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:
Maybe if folks didn't create such drama, and everyone posted without all the emo venom, it wouldn't escalate into people quitting or cutting themselves...
CCP created the drama by utilizing faulty changes to there game, they knew going in that they didn't work from the feedback from SISI, I have no idea why CCP asks for feedback in the first place as they completely ignore the bits that are important to the greater player base.
I quit because the icons don't work for pvp and even in pve they are a PITA, if I was someone like yourself who only forum whores for attention the icons wouldn't have any impact on me as well. |
Constantin Makanen
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 15:57:07 -
[1907] - Quote
Kesta De'Kranken wrote: 2. I have very bad eyesight and the change IS NOT SENSITIVE to people who have bad vision...
Based on your reaction, this must be CCPs fault... lol
Kesta De'Kranken wrote: 6. I'll be back when you admit your mistake AND allow us MULTIPLE CHOICES in how we view information... I've only been here a year and so don't have much invested in real time and money. ... so I'll go play MechWarrior.
A true benefit to the EVE community...
Kesta De'Kranken wrote: I'm going to sit back and watch the subscription numbers. I'll be very sad to see if people lose their jobs over this, but if you disregard the players in this game, you do so at your peril.
First quitting the subscription and than be upset about dropping numbers of players. You are a genius. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
856
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:01:32 -
[1908] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Sky Marshal wrote:[quote=Rio Bravo]The developers of Star Wars Galaxies didn't care of feedback and did everything they wanted but not what the players wanted, and released dreadful patchs like NGE and others ones. Officially, it was to stop the going down of the subscribers number, but it just made it even worse than before. The CEO of Sony Entertainment made excuses and admitted that they should have listened to the players, but it was after the game was closed...
Let's CCP do that too, maybe this way they will learn to crush their pride, but it will be probably too late. Whatever what you say, the fact is the game has less logged players than before, and it is not a good sign, even for you. Yeah, lets quit because of some icons, that still are work in progress. If people are ready to quit and kill the whole game, by wishing CCP less money, just because of this, they didnt enjoy the game long before the new icons... Because thats what a fan of a game does. Quit and kill off the game, so no future improvement will follow. Some people here are real jerks.
1 - If i didnt enjoy the game, why have i been here 6 years?
2 - When you say these icons are a work in progress, do you mean that A) CCP released half assed icons on TQ knowing they were not adequate but still went ahead with the release? or B) do you mean CCP ignored all SiSi feedback completely and only decided they were a 'work in progress', when they discovered they had fcked up?
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:06:21 -
[1909] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Sky Marshal wrote:[quote=Rio Bravo]The developers of Star Wars Galaxies didn't care of feedback and did everything they wanted but not what the players wanted, and released dreadful patchs like NGE and others ones. Officially, it was to stop the going down of the subscribers number, but it just made it even worse than before. The CEO of Sony Entertainment made excuses and admitted that they should have listened to the players, but it was after the game was closed...
Let's CCP do that too, maybe this way they will learn to crush their pride, but it will be probably too late. Whatever what you say, the fact is the game has less logged players than before, and it is not a good sign, even for you. Yeah, lets quit because of some icons, that still are work in progress. If people are ready to quit and kill the whole game, by wishing CCP less money, just because of this, they didnt enjoy the game long before the new icons... Because thats what a fan of a game does. Quit and kill off the game, so no future improvement will follow. Some people here are real jerks.
If the icons make the game unplayable I'm not going to continue to shell out RL money to fund three accounts while waiting for them to be rolled back as that is just not going to happen, rollback is the best option and CCP is too hard headed to admit that they screwed up yet again, I have hung around since 2003 and had a blast, I was still having fun until the icons change went into effect, now it's too much work to play so I cut funds on three accounts, if Eve goes down the tubes because of a faulty game change it's not my fault, I gave feedback when the icons went live on SISI and since CCP didn't listen what happens to Eve after that is not my problem. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:16:07 -
[1910] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Kesta De'Kranken wrote: 2. I have very bad eyesight and the change IS NOT SENSITIVE to people who have bad vision...
Based on your reaction, this must be CCPs fault... lol Kesta De'Kranken wrote: 6. I'll be back when you admit your mistake AND allow us MULTIPLE CHOICES in how we view information... I've only been here a year and so don't have much invested in real time and money. ... so I'll go play MechWarrior.
A true benefit to the EVE community... Kesta De'Kranken wrote: I'm going to sit back and watch the subscription numbers. I'll be very sad to see if people lose their jobs over this, but if you disregard the players in this game, you do so at your peril.
First quitting the subscription and than be upset about dropping numbers of players. You are a genius.
If the numbers are dropping (I don't care enough to look to be honest) it may or may not be the fault of the faulty icons as it's summer after all and people like to go outside when it's nice out.
It's not CCPs fault that player has bad eyesight he's just upset that a game change makes Eve unplayable for him and he has a right to cancel his membership because of that, why would someone want to continually pay for a faulty product when the dev blog itself pretty much told us that the faulty icons are here to stay so they will never work for some of it's player base and we chose to move on. |
|
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:22:39 -
[1911] - Quote
Steijn wrote:1 - If i didnt enjoy the game, why have i been here 6 years?
If some icons will make you quit, I literally have no clue about what you did in the past six years. Definitely not enjoying the sandbox.
Steijn wrote:Constantin Makanen wrote:2 - When you say these icons are a work in progress, do you mean that A) CCP released half assed icons on TQ knowing they were not adequate but still went ahead with the release? or B) do you mean CCP ignored all SiSi feedback completely and only decided they were a 'work in progress', when they discovered they had fcked up? Since I am only a subscriber, I cant really speak for CCP. But I know that they will change or atleast work on the icons, when they will proof himself as unplayable in the long term. If you have problems with them, than you should keep mention it. But by rage quitting the subsc. you will help to bury this game. Than you can play Star Citizen oder ED. Have fun with them. [quote=Alea] If the icons make the game unplayable I'm not going to continue to shell out RL money to fund three accounts while waiting for them to be rolled back as that is just not going to happen, rollback is the best option and CCP is too hard headed to admit that they screwed up yet again, I have hung around since 2003 and had a blast, I was still having fun until the icons change went into effect, now it's too much work to play so I cut funds on three accounts, if Eve goes down the tubes because of a faulty game change it's not my fault, I gave feedback when the icons went live on SISI and since CCP didn't listen what happens to Eve after that is not my problem.
Real feedback can be given in the long term. But not now.
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:23:25 -
[1912] - Quote
I can play the game with the icone changes. I get more informations than before on field while PvPing withg the icone changes.
How can I get more informationq with changes then others crying louder than they can't see **** ? How can you tell that empty squares before were better than ACTUAL icones today ? I can't get it.
If you're mad enough about it that you're ready to quit playing Eve Online, then bye. Good riddance. Maybe the game will evolve faster without those stubborn players sitting on their quirks and can't frucking adapt. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:26:26 -
[1913] - Quote
Alea wrote:If the numbers are dropping (I don't care enough to look to be honest) it may or may not be the fault of the faulty icons as it's summer after all and people like to go outside when it's nice out.
Maybe. To be honest, I dont look at them either. Just paying my subsc. even though I am not playing for months, but there are reasons for that, that will change soon.
Alea wrote:It's not CCPs fault that player has bad eyesight he's just upset that a game change makes Eve unplayable for him and he has a right to cancel his membership because of that, why would someone want to continually pay for a faulty product when the dev blog itself pretty much told us that the faulty icons are here to stay so they will never work for some of it's player base and we chose to move on.
Its his right, but he should not act like rage quitting will improve the game. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:30:24 -
[1914] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:I can play the game with the icone changes. I get more informations than before on field while PvPing withg the icone changes.
How can I get more informationq with changes then others crying louder than they can't see **** ? How can you tell that empty squares before were better than ACTUAL icones today ? I can't get it.
If you're mad enough about it that you're ready to quit playing Eve Online, then bye. Good riddance. Maybe the game will evolve faster without those stubborn players sitting on their quirks and can't frucking adapt.
The problem is, EVE has to evolve even more, because ED and Star Citizen are powerful competitors. We will see, what will happen in the long term. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:35:26 -
[1915] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Alea wrote: If the icons make the game unplayable I'm not going to continue to shell out RL money to fund three accounts while waiting for them to be rolled back as that is just not going to happen, rollback is the best option and CCP is too hard headed to admit that they screwed up yet again, I have hung around since 2003 and had a blast, I was still having fun until the icons change went into effect, now it's too much work to play so I cut funds on three accounts, if Eve goes down the tubes because of a faulty game change it's not my fault, I gave feedback when the icons went live on SISI and since CCP didn't listen what happens to Eve after that is not my problem.
Real feedback can be given in the long term. But not now.
Real feedback was asked for by CCP and it as given before the icons went live on TQ, CCP received that feedback but decided to ignore that feedback.
CCP is trying to save face by now saying that the icons are a work in progress what also means that they know that the icons are a terrible addition and are trying to find a way out of the mess that they have created by not listening to the feedback that they asked for in the first place. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
859
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:36:21 -
[1916] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:If some icons will make you quit, I literally have no clue about what you did in the past six years. Definitely not enjoying the sandbox.
When i undock, whats the first thing i look at? - The overview.
What did i see when i looked at the overview? - A quick indication of what was close around me in space.
What do i now see when i look at the overview? - Some squiggles which merge into everything else that is on my overview and make it impossible to QUICKLY see what im looking at.
I, like many others, use the UI at 90% scaling. CCP have admitted this doesnt currently work, and may never work properly in the future. So why should i stay?
From a personal point of view, the sandbox was fine for 6 years even with the industry changes which made me completely change how I played the game so dont try coming along with the 'you arent willing to change' crap. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
859
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:38:40 -
[1917] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Cleanse Serce wrote:I can play the game with the icone changes. I get more informations than before on field while PvPing withg the icone changes.
How can I get more informationq with changes then others crying louder than they can't see **** ? How can you tell that empty squares before were better than ACTUAL icones today ? I can't get it.
If you're mad enough about it that you're ready to quit playing Eve Online, then bye. Good riddance. Maybe the game will evolve faster without those stubborn players sitting on their quirks and can't frucking adapt. The problem is, EVE has to evolve even more, because ED and Star Citizen are powerful competitors. We will see, what will happen in the long term.
I think you need to look up the meaning of the word Evolve, because the last time i looked, it didnt mean drive your subscribers to 1 of your competitors |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:39:54 -
[1918] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:The problem is, EVE has to evolve even more, because ED and Star Citizen are powerful competitors. We will see, what will happen in the long term.
Those games are not a threat for Eve Online.
Star Citizens battlegrounds or whatever name they call them is no match with Eve Online "open PvP" (yeah ok TiDi, but still instances versus open world = no match).
Elite Dangerous is more kind of a Space Simulator. same thing compared to Eve Online, EG has phased Solar Systems, you can be in a solar system but you won't see your friend that is in the same solar system, unless you group or chose the same 'phase' = no match.
But that doesn't mean CCP has to stand there and do nothing, and i'm glad that's not what they're doing.
Steijn wrote:I think you need to look up the meaning of the word Evolve, because the last time i looked, it didnt mean drive your subscribers to 1 of your competitors
Sources ?
Actually to all of you threatening CCP to quit the game, do you even know how many you are ? You're all saying that CCP don't listen to players, but how many are ACTUALLY not ok with those icone changes ? |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:41:38 -
[1919] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Alea wrote:If the numbers are dropping (I don't care enough to look to be honest) it may or may not be the fault of the faulty icons as it's summer after all and people like to go outside when it's nice out. Maybe. To be honest, I dont look at them either. Just paying my subsc. even though I am not playing for months, but there are reasons for that, that will change soon. Alea wrote:It's not CCPs fault that player has bad eyesight he's just upset that a game change makes Eve unplayable for him and he has a right to cancel his membership because of that, why would someone want to continually pay for a faulty product when the dev blog itself pretty much told us that the faulty icons are here to stay so they will never work for some of it's player base and we chose to move on. Its his right, but he should not act like rage quitting will improve the game.
If CCP don't listen to the feedback that they asked for in the fist place quitting is the only option left to do if the game is now unplayable for those people, Eve is heading in a direction that I don't like so I'm going to play other games instead and hope in the future the old style icons make a comeback, if not that's OK too as I had allot of fun the past 12 years. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:42:24 -
[1920] - Quote
Steijn wrote:From a personal point of view, the sandbox was fine for 6 years even with the industry changes which made me completely change how I played the game so dont try coming along with the 'you arent willing to change' crap.
You dont fail by changing, but at accepting and to invest into the future. |
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
46
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:43:37 -
[1921] - Quote
Alea wrote:If CCP don't listen to the feedback that they asked for in the fist place quitting is the only option left to do if the game is now unplayable for those people, Eve is heading in a direction that I don't like so I'm going to play other games instead and hope in the future the old style icons make a comeback, if not that's OK too as I had allot of fun the past 12 years.
They did listen to the feedback and the new DevBlog proves it : they're working on 4 changes. If your feedback is to roll back, that's not a valid feedback, and i'm glad they don't listen to this. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:44:39 -
[1922] - Quote
Alea wrote:If CCP don't listen to the feedback that they asked for in the fist place quitting is the only option left to do....
If so, bye then. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:47:42 -
[1923] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:They did listen to the feedback and the new DevBlog proves it : they're working on 4 changes. If your feedback is to roll back, that's not a valid feedback, and i'm glad they don't listen to this.
The truth is, ever since the first changes the problems were about habits and not improvements. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:47:43 -
[1924] - Quote
Steijn wrote:I, like many others, use the UI at 90% scaling. CCP have admitted this doesnt currently work, and may never work properly in the future. So why should i stay?
Then be happy :
Quote:Next Steps
The new icons brought major change to the way in-space entities are represented in EVEGÇÖs UI, but weGÇÖve also identified several areas of improvement thanks to your feedback. Here are the top items on our list to tackle:
Improve Scaling issues
WeGÇÖre looking at way to make the icons more useable at 90% scale in the short term while a longer-term technical solution to UI scaling is being developed.
This is a quote from new DevBlog : http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/bracket-icon-feedback/?_ga=1.9560368.424513548.1429377739
Not only will they work on that 90% scale, but we might even be able to personaliaze the scale, maybe with a slidebar between various pourcentages.
Constantin Makanen wrote:The truth is, the problems are about habits and not improvements.
I know right. :/ |
Steijn
Quay Industries
861
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:47:50 -
[1925] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Alea wrote:If CCP don't listen to the feedback that they asked for in the fist place quitting is the only option left to do if the game is now unplayable for those people, Eve is heading in a direction that I don't like so I'm going to play other games instead and hope in the future the old style icons make a comeback, if not that's OK too as I had allot of fun the past 12 years. They did listen to the feedback and the new DevBlog proves it : they're working on 4 changes. If your feedback is to roll back, that's not a valid feedback, and i'm glad they don't listen to this.
If they listened to the SiSi feedback, why did they release the icons onto TQ? |
Steijn
Quay Industries
861
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:49:20 -
[1926] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Cleanse Serce wrote:They did listen to the feedback and the new DevBlog proves it : they're working on 4 changes. If your feedback is to roll back, that's not a valid feedback, and i'm glad they don't listen to this. The truth is, the problems are about habits and not improvements.
so not been able to see an overview clearly is a habit and not the fault of the icons? |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:50:45 -
[1927] - Quote
Steijn wrote:If they listened to the SiSi feedback, why did they release the icons onto TQ?
That's the only valid remark imo. Yes, that was NOT professional AT ALL, to release something that's not finished/polished. But it's done... There's no reason to cry about it and yelling "that's unforgivable blabla i quit..." that's a spoiled kid attitude to be honest.
They did a error yes, blame them for THAT error, not the icones.
Steijn wrote:so not been able to see an overview clearly is a habit and not the fault of the icons?
I am seeing perfectly with the new icone. Now what ? Why i am perfectly ok with new icones, and you're not ? |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:52:46 -
[1928] - Quote
Steijn wrote:I refuse to invest into something that i can no longer play. Its like owning a car but breaking your legs, what use is it anymore?
I am sure, its not that bad. If its really that hard, maybe you should play the new tut. . :) |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:54:37 -
[1929] - Quote
Steijn wrote:[quote=Constantin Makanen]so not been able to see an overview clearly is a habit and not the fault of the icons?
There are people who can, so its clearly a habit. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
861
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 16:54:57 -
[1930] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Steijn wrote:I refuse to invest into something that i can no longer play. Its like owning a car but breaking your legs, what use is it anymore? I am sure, its not that bad. If its really that hard, maybe you should play the new tut. . :)
ah so making a proper argumentative case FOR the icons now changes into trying to make fun of someone because you cant find any constructive answers to my points. Not trying for a job at CeeCeePee are you? |
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
45
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:00:26 -
[1931] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:The problem is, EVE has to evolve even more, because ED and Star Citizen are powerful competitors. We will see, what will happen in the long term. That CCP try to update EVE to resist to the incoming competitors IS an absolute good thing, but make changes for the sake of change isn't a good way to "evolve" a game... If this word means "remove UI customization", "do NOT give options at any costs", well in short frustrate a part of their players for the pure sake of change instead of contentate nearly everyone (options can do that), then you should use "devolve", it would be closer to the reality.
CCP should consider the UI and visual annoyances as critical aspects who must be modified with care, not like useless sub-part of a game like they actually do. A bad UI will make players leave a game whatever the rich gameplay/story/graphics behind, because it is possible to adapt to the gameplay with effort but a player who suffer some eyes deficiencies and stuff can adapt to bad UI or visual annoyances ONLY if the devs give options for that, but CCP refuse to do so.
Personaly, since the refusal of giving an option to avoid the jumpgate animation, I am willing to discourage new players to try the game... This animation also exists in the game "X:Terran Conflict" (an... EVE-Like game, very close) but there is an option to disable it, because their devs listened to the players.
About Star Citizen, well.. Indeed, he has a serious mediatic advance, it is quoted frequently. Actually, only when there is a big fight then EVE is quoted, but it don't happen all the time... The best WEAPON available to CCP is his players, who can recruit everywhere if they feel satisfied by the game. But it is not by giving a middle-finger to them and refuse to offer options that they will be willing to recruit.
So yes, we will see what will happen in the long term, but I already think that EVE starts with some serious disadvantages that CCP created himself because of his ideology and pride. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:02:43 -
[1932] - Quote
Steijn wrote:ah so making a proper argumentative case FOR the icons now changes into trying to make fun of someone because you cant find any constructive answers to my points.
My point was, still is and always will be. Test it in the long term. Also its work in progress, so its not the final release, so please stop acting like a brat.
Nobody knows how it will look in the end.
Steijn wrote:Not trying for a job at CeeCeePee are you?
lol Thats already the second accusation of this type. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
866
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:07:30 -
[1933] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Also its work in progress, so its not the final release, so please stop acting like a brat.
but it WAS the final release you numpty. Its only these 90 pages that have turned it into a work in progress. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:12:46 -
[1934] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:So yes, we will see what will happen in the long term, but I already think that EVE starts with some serious disadvantages that CCP created himself because of his ideology and pride.
Again, a lot of it is work in progress and I dont think, its about pride. They also have limited manpower. It seems, that CCP is working on greater changes, with own priorities.
They will not pump everything into one problem. Since CCP already stated, that they are working on solutions, I dont understand this false accusation of "CCP gives us the middle finger". |
Steijn
Quay Industries
866
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:14:04 -
[1935] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote: I dont understand this false accusation of "CCP gives us the middle finger".
then you didnt read the blog. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:14:32 -
[1936] - Quote
So whats the reason for your "CCP doesnt care about our feedback" bitching? Whats the name of this thread again? |
Steijn
Quay Industries
866
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:16:07 -
[1937] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:So whats the reason for your "CCP doesnt care about our feedback" bitching?
The SiSi thread on these icons is evidence that they dont. |
Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:18:53 -
[1938] - Quote
Steijn wrote:The SiSi thread on these icons is evidence that they dont.
Thats why they ask here for feedback... |
Steijn
Quay Industries
867
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:20:06 -
[1939] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Steijn wrote:The SiSi thread on these icons is evidence that they dont. Thats why they ask here for feedback...
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:22:06 -
[1940] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Alea wrote:If CCP don't listen to the feedback that they asked for in the fist place quitting is the only option left to do if the game is now unplayable for those people, Eve is heading in a direction that I don't like so I'm going to play other games instead and hope in the future the old style icons make a comeback, if not that's OK too as I had allot of fun the past 12 years. They did listen to the feedback and the new DevBlog proves it : they're working on 4 changes. If your feedback is to roll back, that's not a valid feedback, and i'm glad they don't listen to this.
No they didn't listen as they went ahead and put the icons on TQ knowing that they didn't work from the feedback they received from SISI so now CCP is trying to find a way for them to work for everybody and during that period of time I will not continue to give them money.
If they rollback that's good, if they make the old icons an option even better as there are a few who do like them but if the new icons stay I'm not going to play any longer and I'm OK with that as I had a blast since 2003. |
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Constantin Makanen
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:22:56 -
[1941] - Quote
Spam.
Some defs should mop here. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:24:36 -
[1942] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Alea wrote:If CCP don't listen to the feedback that they asked for in the fist place quitting is the only option left to do.... If so, bye then.
And you don't want my stuffs.? A 2003 player has accumulated lots and lots of stuffs.. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:26:01 -
[1943] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Steijn wrote:From a personal point of view, the sandbox was fine for 6 years even with the industry changes which made me completely change how I played the game so dont try coming along with the 'you arent willing to change' crap. You dont fail by changing, but at accepting and to invest into the future.
I personally will not continue to invest in something that no longer works. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
51
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:31:40 -
[1944] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:Steijn wrote:ah so making a proper argumentative case FOR the icons now changes into trying to make fun of someone because you cant find any constructive answers to my points. My point was, still is and always will be. Test it in the long term. Also its work in progress, so its not the final release, so please stop acting like a brat. Nobody knows how it will look in the end. Steijn wrote:Not trying for a job at CeeCeePee are you? lol Thats already the second accusation of this type.
The icons wasn't a work in progress until everybody started complaining about them even though they knew they didn't work from the feedback they received off of SISI. |
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
77
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:32:59 -
[1945] - Quote
The work in progress is just going to be a way for us to be able customise these eyesores into something as close as we can get to the old system.
You really couldn't make this up |
Kesta De'Kranken
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:38:29 -
[1946] - Quote
Constantin Makanen wrote:[quote=Kesta De'Kranken]
First quitting the subscription and than be upset about dropping numbers of players. You are a genius.
NO. You missed the point. I'm HOPING they fail due to falling subscriptions. It's the ONLY way they will realize they screwed up. |
Constantin Makanen
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:43:05 -
[1947] - Quote
Kesta De'Kranken wrote:NO. You missed the point. I'm HOPING they fail due to falling subscriptions. It's the ONLY way they will realize they screwed up.
There goes our great community.. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2838
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:46:17 -
[1948] - Quote
I have been active in the split off thread in regards to the icons as the main general thread is too noisy to make any decent headway in. But here I am.
Yes, the 90% issue needs a fix fast as does the colour blind. Yes I like the logic of the new sets and think it is more in the details of the implemntation that in the change itself.
A lot of the reaction is from people who have almsot automated their responses over the years to tge old ways and object to being asked to learn a new set. IF it is visible (90% and colour) and if it has an internal logic then I am ok with the change
Oh and drones need to look less like ships
GÇïm
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:47:05 -
[1949] - Quote
Kesta De'Kranken wrote:Constantin Makanen wrote:[quote=Kesta De'Kranken]
First quitting the subscription and than be upset about dropping numbers of players. You are a genius. NO. You missed the point. I'm HOPING they fail due to falling subscriptions. It's the ONLY way they will realize they screwed up.
I doubt Eve will die as it's still a great game, it just no longer works for some of us so we was forced to move on and I'm sure others will replace us over time and I hope that is true as I do still love this game but I can no longer play it. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
48
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:47:53 -
[1950] - Quote
Alea wrote:No they didn't listen as they went ahead and put the icons on TQ knowing that they didn't work from the feedback they received from SISI so now CCP is trying to find a way for them to work for everybody and during that period of time I will not continue to give them money.
If they rollback that's good, if they make the old icons an option even better as there are a few who do like them but if the new icons stay I'm not going to play any longer and I'm OK with that as I had a blast since 2003.
I'm agree they should've not released it yet. But still it's out. And they listened since they gonna make improvements on next release.
Alea wrote:If they rollback that's good, if they make the old icons an option even better as there are a few who do like them but if the new icons stay I'm not going to play any longer and I'm OK with that as I had a blast since 2003.
If you quit the game because they were unprofessional by releasing the feature that soon, i can understand. If you quit the game because you want your dear icones back, i don't, and honestly, you're a good riddance. |
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
605
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:48:33 -
[1951] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:How are the Icons 'Overflowing with information'? It's an Icon, not a 200 word essay.
Relatively, it is filled with tons of redundant information like chevrons and other miscellanea on the base chosen concept of the triangle for spaceships, all this information needs to be read, whereas previously only the obvious sizing was of concern.
For casual activities & travel this system may be fine, but for PvP it is not.
Of course, people will adapt: combat pacing of certain engagement types & sizes will also adapt to this, but it will be a different EVE.
It is curious to note that a system, which had been regarded as a stream-lining venture for the benefit of the players' situational awareness & response times, actually turned out to be another layer of complexity, which can't be circumvented.
...And They All Crave One Thing - ISK. Gÿ+
Nullsec Ore Changes - Lowend Mineral Price Tracking [2015]
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 17:55:10 -
[1952] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:
If you quit the game because you want your dear icones back, i don't, and honestly, you're a good riddance.
I quit because the game is now unplayable for me, I have endured years and years of changes but this change is a game breaker for me so I really have no other choice but to move on. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
228
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:09:56 -
[1953] - Quote
I think we must clear something here. Everyone note that the new icons are ugly.
But majority of the ppl here are screaming only the for the PVP and PVE icons which must be like to old once
No one cares about the new icons for belts, stations, gates, start etc etc
So I don't see where is the problem CCP to fix only these icons. You just need to make - [ ] for all classes ships and crosses for the all npc ships |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
49
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:11:26 -
[1954] - Quote
Panterata wrote:I think we must clear something here. Everyone note that the new icons are ugly.
But majority of the ppl here are screaming only the for the PVP and PVE icons which must be like to old once
No one cares about the new icons for belts, stations, gates, start etc etc
Everyone ? Majority ? No one ?
What are your sources ? |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
228
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:13:17 -
[1955] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:I think we must clear something here. Everyone note that the new icons are ugly.
But majority of the ppl here are screaming only the for the PVP and PVE icons which must be like to old once
No one cares about the new icons for belts, stations, gates, start etc etc Everyone ? Majority ? No one ? What are your sources ?
yes yes yes
The source is from the page 1 - 98 of this thread |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:17:46 -
[1956] - Quote
Panterata wrote:yes yes yes
The source is from the page 1 - 98 of this thread
Let's just imagine that those 1.953 replys in this very Thread is 1 single player from Eve Online, each and every post are from 1 single player different from one another.
Then let's imagine that each and every single post in this very Thread are all demanding CCP to roll back or complaining about the changes.
That makes 1.953 players out of 32.627 players online right now as i'm writing this. Let's now divide that number by 3 to deal with "alts" = That's still onlu 11.000 people.
That's not everyone. That's not the majority. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
545
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:19:27 -
[1957] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:I think we must clear something here. Everyone note that the new icons are ugly.
But majority of the ppl here are screaming only the for the PVP and PVE icons which must be like to old once
No one cares about the new icons for belts, stations, gates, start etc etc Everyone ? Majority ? No one ? What are your sources ?
Mmmm.... there was a survey in Russian land showing pretty much everyone of them hated the icons. Everyone i know hates the icons. Of all the responses I have seen on the english forums there are only a few fanibois such as yourself whiteknighting CCP's broken content. SO admittedly its still anecdotal, but in the absence of one of CCP's own surveys, the proof is pretty clear, the icons suck. and beyond sucking are game breaking for many, myself included.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:22:05 -
[1958] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Mmmm.... there was a survey in Russian land showing pretty much everyone of them hated the icons. Everyone i know hates the icons. Of all the responses I have seen on the english forums there are only a few fanibois such as yourself whiteknighting CCP's broken content. SO admittedly its still anecdotal, but in the absence of one of CCP's own surveys, the proof is pretty clear, the icons suck. and beyond sucking are game breaking for many, myself included.
I've already responsed to you. 1 single survey in a Russian-speaking forum do not represent the whole Eve Online players.
That's one group of players among one froum community among the Russian-speaking community among the Eve Onlinbe community. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
545
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:22:27 -
[1959] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:yes yes yes
The source is from the page 1 - 98 of this thread Let's just imagine that those 1.953 replys in this very Thread is 1 single player from Eve Online, each and every post are from 1 single player different from one another. Then let's imagine that each and every single post in this very Thread are all demanding CCP to roll back or complaining about the changes. That makes 1.953 players out of 32.627 players online right now as i'm writing this. Let's now divide that number by 3 to deal with "alts" = That's still onlu 11.000 people. That's not everyone. That's not the majority.
Usually the most dedicated, invested players respond on the forums. The ones who aren't so dedicated, when they get frustrated with a game they just log off and dont return. Hmm, I wonder why we have lower subscription numbers and concurrent users then in the past?
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
545
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:23:27 -
[1960] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Mmmm.... there was a survey in Russian land showing pretty much everyone of them hated the icons. Everyone i know hates the icons. Of all the responses I have seen on the english forums there are only a few fanibois such as yourself whiteknighting CCP's broken content. SO admittedly its still anecdotal, but in the absence of one of CCP's own surveys, the proof is pretty clear, the icons suck. and beyond sucking are game breaking for many, myself included.
I've already responsed to you. 1 single survey in a Russian-speaking forum do not represent the whole Eve Online players. That's one group of players among one froum community among the Russian-speaking community among the Eve Onlinbe community.
So do a survey and prove us wrong. Your one faiboi against the tide. So by your logic your points are irrelevant.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:32:00 -
[1961] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Usually the most dedicated, invested players respond on the forums. The ones who aren't so dedicated, when they get frustrated with a game they just log off and dont return. Hmm, I wonder why we have lower subscription numbers and concurrent users then in the past?
Just as the most satisfied ones won't come here to express their joy. As far as subscription numbers are concerned you still have no numbers to prove your statement.
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:So do a survey and prove us wrong. Your one faiboi against the tide. So by your logic your points are irrelevant. I guess your right... Your one person with an obviously aberrant view point. You should be ignored.
I don't need to, CCP will keep the changes as it is, but i might've done something if they had fall on their knees to some whinings. I'm glad they're smarter than that.
Yeah, as long as a point do fit with yours that's aberrant and it should be ignored.
So if i would act like you, and think like you, i would say that everybody that is not satisfied with the changes is intolerant and close minded ? I'm glad to have had parents who taught me anything. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
232
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:32:28 -
[1962] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:yes yes yes
The source is from the page 1 - 98 of this thread Let's just imagine that those 1.953 replys in this very Thread is 1 single player from Eve Online, each and every post are from 1 single player different from one another. Then let's imagine that each and every single post in this very Thread are all demanding CCP to roll back or complaining about the changes. That makes 1.953 players out of 32.627 players online right now as i'm writing this. Let's now divide that number by 3 to deal with "alts" = That's still onlu 11.000 people. That's not everyone. That's not the majority.
You know that can be check easy.
You can ask 32 627 players personally and make a statistic
For myself you can see that I write in the forums very rare. Only on this thread I writing a lot. And if I'm writing this mean definitely something is wrong with the game
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:33:48 -
[1963] - Quote
Panterata wrote:You know that can be check easy.
You can ask 32 627 players personally and make a statistic
For myself you can see that I write in the forums very rare. Only on this thread I writing a lot. And if I'm writing this mean definitely something is wrong with the game
Just like me, i don't write that much, and i'm here to defend these changes.
So, does it mean that there is nothing wrong with the changes ?
Seriously.. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
232
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:37:56 -
[1964] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:You know that can be check easy.
You can ask 32 627 players personally and make a statistic
For myself you can see that I write in the forums very rare. Only on this thread I writing a lot. And if I'm writing this mean definitely something is wrong with the game
Just like me, i don't write that much, and i'm here to defend these changes. So, does it mean that there is nothing wrong with the changes ? Seriously..
Ok probably you are not the only one who defend these changes but I will repeat myself again.
Check from first page to the end. Check how many ppl are not ok with this changes. Look how many positive and negative feedback you have (likes and dislikes also). And the you will realize for sure that everything with these icons is wrong and majority of the ppl don't want them.
EDIT: And just to make more easy for you - http://www.eve-search.com/stats/thread/427590-1 |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:41:55 -
[1965] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:It is just that you can't realize your points are invalid, because of your lack of PVP experience (according to killboards).
lol, so if I PvP'd everyday I would lose enough mental function that I couldn't see that a house is a cruiser and a triangle is a frigate? Or can't see that a house with a bar is a BC and a regular house is a cruiser? Or the Parabolic blob is a cap industrial and a flat bottomed blob is a regular industrial? PvP shouldn't affect your faculties to such a degree.
I don't PvP as much as some because I don't generally fight for the sake of it...If I can make money doing mining, ratting, PI, exploration, and research why risk a ship? Fights are always uneven, and when I was militia briefly, I flew solo. So I avoided fighting in favour of camping POC's. I have been on CTA's and I join militia fleets when our home is invaded. Never cared about my Killboard, the way I play is often semi AFK anyways...
The logic that if I PvP'd more it would turn me into someone with limited brain function, is an insult to the pilots that aren't dim. If you fight and lose your ship, maybe you suck. DO NOT blame the icons... or Obama, or Global Warming, or the economy, or early childhood trauma, or your mouse battery...
Ok, maybe your mouse battery...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Eke Patang
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
87
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:46:09 -
[1966] - Quote
The main thing missing about the comments on the icon changes from those that say they are great get used to them,is a little empathy for those that for one reason or another are not as fully functional as they used to be.....we all get old one day and some of us still prefer to play games not dig our gardens and grow vegetables. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:48:03 -
[1967] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Ok probably you are not the only one who defend these changes but I will repeat myself again. Check from first page to the end. Check how many ppl are not ok with this changes. Look how many positive and negative feedback you have (likes and dislikes also). And the you will realize for sure that everything with these icons is wrong and majority of the ppl don't want them. EDIT: And just to make more easy for you - http://www.eve-search.com/stats/thread/427590-1
I'm sorry, but those statistics show nothing at all. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:49:04 -
[1968] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:Ok probably you are not the only one who defend these changes but I will repeat myself again. Check from first page to the end. Check how many ppl are not ok with this changes. Look how many positive and negative feedback you have (likes and dislikes also). And the you will realize for sure that everything with these icons is wrong and majority of the ppl don't want them. EDIT: And just to make more easy for you - http://www.eve-search.com/stats/thread/427590-1 I'm sorry, but those statistics show nothing at all.
Not to mention, if your happy...why would you log in to complain? Also, I am in 6th!
*\o/*
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:50:40 -
[1969] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Not to mention, if your happy...why would you log in to complain?
The correct sentence would be "If you're happy why would you log in to say you're satisfied" :D
Yes, precisely. I'm the only idiot doing so. :'( |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
557
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:54:01 -
[1970] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Sky Marshal wrote:It is just that you can't realize your points are invalid, because of your lack of PVP experience (according to killboards). lol, so if I PvP'd everyday I would lose enough mental function that I couldn't see that a house is a cruiser and a triangle is a frigate? Or can't see that a house with a bar is a BC and a regular house is a cruiser? Or the Parabolic blob is a cap industrial and a flat bottomed blob is a regular industrial? PvP shouldn't affect your faculties to such a degree. I don't PvP as much as some because I don't generally fight for the sake of it...If I can make money doing mining, ratting, PI, exploration, and research why risk a ship? Fights are always uneven, and when I was militia briefly, I flew solo. So I avoided fighting in favour of camping POC's. I have been on CTA's and I join militia fleets when our home is invaded. Never cared about my Killboard, the way I play is often semi AFK anyways... The logic that if I PvP'd more it would turn me into someone with limited brain function, is an insult to the pilots that aren't dim. If you fight and lose your ship, maybe you suck. DO NOT blame the icons... or Obama, or Global Warming, or the economy, or early childhood trauma, or your mouse battery... Ok, maybe your mouse battery...
I went to amarr to see what I could see what with the burning and all. I have overview settings for large and small fleet engagements because I have been in both. Before the icon changes I had no trouble telling at a glance what is going on. Now, I cant see the house as a cruiser or the triangle as a frig or differentiate one squashed blob from another slightly smaller squashed blob. For me, the icons are simply too small, too indistinct, and there are way too many of them. So all I see now are blobs of color. Now as a carebear, it doesnt matter so much to you, but for the rest of the folk who play this game for the times when fast decisions are required, its a major issue. I'm not going to pay for the game, if I cant see the game. But I am glad for you that they fixed that "major" icon oversight of not having a different icon for every size rock. Now you can look at your monitor and say - hey there is a rock, and over there is a smaller rock. Im sure it was a major improvement for miners that more then justified breaking pvp.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 18:59:39 -
[1971] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:I went to amarr to see what I could see what with the burning and all. I have overview settings for large and small fleet engagements because I have been in both. Before the icon changes I had no trouble telling at a glance what is going on. Now, I cant see the house as a cruiser or the triangle as a frig or differentiate one squashed blob from another slightly smaller squashed blob. For me, the icons are simply too small, too indistinct, and there are way too many of them. So all I see now are blobs of color. Now as a carebear, it doesnt matter so much to you, but for the rest of the folk who play this game for the times when fast decisions are required, its a major issue. I'm not going to pay for the game, if I cant see the game. But I am glad for you that they fixed that "major" icon oversight of not having a different icon for every size rock. Now you can look at your monitor and say - hey there is a rock, and over there is a smaller rock. Im sure it was a major improvement for miners that more then justified breaking pvp.
So, how was that different from before? With all the brackets squished together all over the screen? I have been in large fleet OP's and they have always been a mess, so a bunch of squished houses and chevrons are worse that a bunch of squished brackets? The old brackets offered no info other than there was a ship there, in big fleets, could make no sense. So if your trying to figure out individual ships in space with the icons now, looking a blob of ships, your EvEing wrong. If anyone has seen some JPEG's of giant battles, they are a scene! You target from your overview panel when your FC gives you primary and secondary targets, not clicky-clicky in space. You can also filter a whole bunch of that out by customizing your brackets and states. Just doesn't convince me, it's almost like you *gasp* want to hate the Icons!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Shuckstar
Tax Haters Evaders Corp
319
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:08:40 -
[1972] - Quote
Panterata wrote:You need more feedback??!! But you have ONLY 83 pages feedbacks.. you need more?!
I will give you one constructive feedback with simple words.
- we don't need your blogs - we DO NOT ask you why you made this changes on the icons - we WANT our old icons BACK
Plus all the feedback from the test server telling them that the new icons suck. I honestly do not see the point of the test server anymore, we go on there to help you game designers ect and tell you whats wrong but it still gets put into Tranquility. I thought the feedback from the test server would of told you the icons don't need a change but alas this is ccp after all.
CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:27:34 -
[1973] - Quote
Shuckstar wrote:[quote=Panterata]Plus all the feedback from the test server telling them that the new icons suck. I honestly do not see the point of the test server anymore, we go on there to help you game designers ect and tell you whats wrong but it still gets put into Tranquility. I thought the feedback from the test server would of told you the icons don't need a change but alas this is ccp after all.
It is what it is, just feedback. Test server, is just a test server. CCP are making the game, and getting paid to do it. We as players are passengers, and don't have the authority to tell a captain how to float his ship. We, however, only have opinions. Everybody has opinions, they are a dime a dozen, and the world is a cold place...
They do what they do to improve the game. Your thinking to much of your own opinion, if you have to have your way all the time in these forum 'discussions'. In the end they will do what is fun, modern, and build the game upwards. EvE Online is not a democracy, not that anyone cares about your opinion in a real life one either, lol. They want input, they want subscriptions, but they laugh when you threaten them...Don't forget you have limited perspective on what 'Everyone' wants.
You know, for years I was saying CCP had to make changes...especially concerning new subs, but about other game things too. They over time addressed all I posted about and more. EvE years ago was getting tired, and CCP seemed lazy, but they started to sprint and are back out in front of the race again. We have so many improvements to be thankful for, new stuff...keeping things 'old' will wreck the game. I look forward to some new deployables I have heard rumour about, to nerf cloaky campers. I know the Rorqual will get out of fat-camp and be strutting to whistles, on the proverbial beach again.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:34:26 -
[1974] - Quote
Statistics for Trolls
Some of you trolls in this thread keep asking for "numbers", "hard evidence" and other reasonable things (while rejecting survey results and the general tendencies of 2 really large feedback threads ...). Your tendency is, as you like all the changes, that the majority probably is the same and all those loud complainers should harden the **** up or gtfo. All the while its not that you support your assumptions with any hard numers yourself (as you demand from the other side).
Now please take a look at hard numbers about customer satisfaction:
Just have a look at the Eve-offline site that monitors server load for our wonderful game.
Lets go through the graphs for Tranquility for the past year. Start with the one year graph, then slowly move downward till you reach the one month graph..... any more questions about customer satisfaction? For those that get easily confused by all those up and downs and peaks - just look at the average for each graph, those averages go down from
38k to 23k average players online
for the different timescales.
You selfcentered bitches better start praying that CCP actually begins to listen to the "complainers" that actually still care to come to the forums - if not, I'm afraid our beloved game will go shitcreek downwards .... cause more than one third of last years playerbase HAS already gtfo.
And unlike you, personally I-¦m not happy about it. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:39:35 -
[1975] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:
You selfcentered bitches better start praying that CCP actually begins to listen to the "complainers" that actually still care to come to the forums - if not, I'm afraid our beloved game will go shitcreek downwards .... cause more than one third of last years playerbase HAS already gtfo.
Lol, just play the game.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
912
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:41:00 -
[1976] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, just play the game.
er, we cant now, thats the point. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:56:13 -
[1977] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Statistics for TrollsSome of you trolls in this thread keep asking for "numbers", "hard evidence" and other reasonable things (while rejecting survey results and the general tendencies of 2 really large feedback threads ...). Your tendency is, as you like all the changes, that the majority probably is the same and all those loud complainers should harden the **** up or gtfo. All the while its not that you support your assumptions with any hard numers yourself (as you demand from the other side). Now please take a look at hard numbers about customer satisfaction: Just have a look at the Eve-offline site that monitors server load for our wonderful game. Lets go through the graphs for Tranquility for the past year. Start with the one year graph, then slowly move downward till you reach the one month graph..... any more questions about customer satisfaction? For those that get easily confused by all those up and downs and peaks - just look at the average for each graph, those averages go down from 38k to 23k average players online for the different timescales. You selfcentered bitches better start praying that CCP actually begins to listen to the "complainers" that actually still care to come to the forums - if not, I'm afraid our beloved game will go shitcreek downwards .... cause more than one third of last years playerbase HAS already gtfo. And unlike you, personally I-¦m not happy about it.
1. Surveys made in one forum russian-speaking forum, with the participation of SOME of the forum subscriber, among the Russian-speaking community, among the Eve Online community DO NOT represent the whole Eve Online players.
2. 100 pages in a Thread asking for feedbacks is not representative of 100% of the Eve Online community. What about that 400 long pages thread about Jump Fatigue ? Did it make people unsubscribe ? Maybe. Maybe not. Only CCP has the numbers about that.
3. That site http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility only shows something seen every year : during June/July people tend to play less Eve Online due to multiple causes : - Study test - Warm weather / More Sunlights. - Holidays. - Whats-not...etc..
4. Even if i can admit that numbers are goin down over the time, that's the case since February / March 2014 which is : - BEFORE new reealse calendar. - BEFORE Jump Fatigue - BEFORE Sov changes. - BEFORE UI revamp. - BEFORE Icone revamp. That does not tell AT ALL that this or that change is the cause of those numbers goin down.
5. Those are numbers of people actually ONLINE and not the number of subscriptions. I have more than one account, for now i only use one. How many of other players are in the same position as me right now ? Plus, the skill changes can leave an account payed for several mounth with no needs to log in as you've set a 6 months skill queue.
6. I wonder who are the selfcentered people : - The one thinking that their opinions are what the majority of Eve Online players think, or - The one that stands before spoiled kids who want their TOY BACK NAOO. ?
I'm not happy either with the overall numbers goin downward, but the recent changes since last November aren't necesserally the cause of this.
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
922
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 19:59:17 -
[1978] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote: 1. Surveys made in one forum russian-speaking forum, with the participation of SOME of the forum subscriber, among the Russian-speaking community, among the Eve Online community DO NOT represent the whole Eve Online players.
you could solve #1 if CCP placed some kind of vote on the launcher. Admittedly it wont get 100% as some still use the exe file to enter the game, but it would be a better representation. The problem with this is that CCP darent do it. |
Kesta De'Kranken
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:00:12 -
[1979] - Quote
[quote=Mike Azariah
GÇïm[/quote]
As politely as I can....
Mike, I don't know you, but I'm assuming you are a very nice person. But, your post as a CSM is fail. IMO...
Isn't your job is to represent the user community? And that if 98 pages of user response is 99% negative (excluding trolls), and if only 10% (or less) of users post who feel strongly about an issue, then this means the majority of paying customers don't like the changes. And so if the user community is 99% against this change, then your job is to make this feedback to CCP painfully clear and back the users regardless whether you agree or not.
I'm not attacking you, I'm just commenting that "I" feel your job as CSM is to communicate user input to CCP, not give your opinion or defend CCP (which I don't think you did BTW).
Regardless, a big thank you for even posting in this thread which clearly is of importance to paying customers...or at least people who [b]used[/b] to pay.... it's certainly more attention than CCP feels this issue merits...
Thank you for participating (either way) Sir. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:07:34 -
[1980] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, just play the game.
er, we cant now, thats the point.
Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better...
You CAN play...If the graphics rendering of the icons is all thats the problem, they are fixing it. Isn't NEW working icons better than the OLD working Icons?
SIDE POINT: Vaudville was great! Alot of silent movie actors had their start in Vaudville theatre...How are ticket sales for Vaudville theatre doing? Not well, or at all. Is it because they replaced the old Black-Face and slapstick tap dancing acts with better stuff? Or is it rather, they were out flanked by the silver screen? They didn't have the business model to keep up with technological improvements in the entertainment business. They stayed the same...
Yes, just like Vaudeville, with all it's romance...EvE would become extinct if it kept relying on 2005 graphics and game mechanics. So instead of the canes and candy striped suit jackets doing barber-shop...EvE is modernizing. Just like things went to Hollywood, and the studio age, and left the dusty stage behind to the janitors...CCP is giving us cutting edge stuff, one of them is the icons system. I still see line ups for movies still (even that's changing), but not for Vaudeville.
To help the tangent impared...The new icons are Hollywood glitz, compared to the old icons that are Betty-Boop comedy skits.
(rhym not intentional).
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
924
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:11:59 -
[1981] - Quote
Rio Bravo[/quote wrote:Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better...
for me, its not a case of liking or disliking anything, its a case of which set allows me to play the game. The old ones do, the new ones dont. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:12:02 -
[1982] - Quote
Steijn wrote:you could solve #1 if CCP placed some kind of vote on the launcher. Admittedly it wont get 100% as some still use the exe file to enter the game, but it would be a better representation. The problem with this is that CCP darent do it.
Once again...You over value your opinion. Voting or not, accountability there is none, other than market forces. Besides, a new player logging in has no point of reference. Just because you have an old toon, doesn't make your video game critique better...might actually distort it.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:13:19 -
[1983] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better...[/quote wrote:
for me, its not a case of liking or disliking anything, its a case of which set allows me to play the game. The old ones do, the new ones dont.
Upgrade your hardware...or have your eyes bored out and new ones implanted.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Steijn
Quay Industries
925
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:17:20 -
[1984] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Steijn wrote:you could solve #1 if CCP placed some kind of vote on the launcher. Admittedly it wont get 100% as some still use the exe file to enter the game, but it would be a better representation. The problem with this is that CCP darent do it. Once again...You over value your opinion. Voting or not, accountability there is none, other than market forces. Besides, a new player logging in has no point of reference. Just because you have an old toon, doesn't make your video game critique better...might actually distort it.
a vote on the launcher takes it away from 'my' opinion and moves it towards a subscribers opinion. The fact that new players who have no point of reference to the 'old; icons would (should) vote for the new set, still gives me no worries about what the result of any such vote would be.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
249
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:18:57 -
[1985] - Quote
Kesta De'Kranken wrote:As politely as I can.... Mike, I don't know you, but I'm assuming you are a very nice person. But, your post as a CSM is fail. IMO... Isn't your job is to represent the user community? And that if 98 pages of user response is 99% negative (excluding trolls), and if only 10% (or less) of users post who feel strongly about an issue, then this means the majority of paying customers don't like the changes. And so if the user community is 99% against this change, then your job is to make this feedback to CCP painfully clear and back the users regardless whether you agree or not. I'm not attacking you, I'm just commenting that "I" feel your job as CSM is to communicate user input to CCP, not give your opinion or defend CCP (which I don't think you did BTW). Regardless, a big thank you for even posting in this thread which clearly is of importance to [b wrote: paying[/b] customers...or at least people who [b]used[/b] to pay.... it's certainly more attention than CCP feels this issue merits...
Thank you for participating (either way) Sir.
Actualy I contact with Mike Azariah ingame for the same reason |
Steijn
Quay Industries
925
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:19:39 -
[1986] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Steijn wrote:Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better... for me, its not a case of liking or disliking anything, its a case of which set allows me to play the game. The old ones do, the new ones dont.[/quote wrote:
Upgrade your hardware...or have your eyes bored out and new ones implanted.
okay i'll buy the top of the range hardware, monitor etc etc. It still wouldnt work on 90% scaling and before you try arguing that point with me, I suggest you take it up with CCP who admitted that on 90% the icons are a failure. |
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:21:17 -
[1987] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Steijn wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, just play the game.
er, we cant now, thats the point. Risking getting back on the hamster wheel, of we like 'old icons' better... You CAN play...If the graphics rendering of the icons is all thats the problem, they are fixing it. Isn't NEW working icons better than the OLD working Icons? SIDE POINT: Vaudville was great! Alot of silent movie actors had their start in Vaudville theatre...How are ticket sales for Vaudville theatre doing? Not well, or at all. Is it because they replaced the old Black-Face and slapstick tap dancing acts with better stuff? Or is it rather, they were out flanked by the silver screen? They didn't have the business model to keep up with technological improvements in the entertainment business. They stayed the same... Yes, just like Vaudeville, with all it's romance...EvE would become extinct if it kept relying on 2005 graphics and game mechanics. So instead of the canes and candy striped suit jackets doing barber-shop...EvE is modernizing. Just like things went to Hollywood, and the studio age, and left the dusty stage behind to the janitors...CCP is giving us cutting edge stuff, one of them is the icons system. I still see line ups for movies still (even that's changing), but not for Vaudeville. To help the tangent impared...The new icons are Hollywood glitz, compared to the old icons that are Betty-Boop comedy skits. (rhym not intentional).
We can produce hundreds of pages more arguing, the point is before the changes, the icons were different enough to tell at a glance even from the corner of your eye whats happening around you...the new ones are not!
You speak of improvement i say this icons are just two steps back its just a trade fluff for functionality!
And i checked back if i am the ghost driver here or not and of all the people around me i asked about the new icons just two of them told me they really like them...the rest of the reactions was from not really like them to they are horrible.
the problem arguing with ignorant people is: they try to drag you down to their niveau and once there they will beat you with experience....so no point in arguing with you anymore
GÇ£Fighting for peace is like having sex for virginity."
|
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
229
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:31:48 -
[1988] - Quote
There has been a reason why I have not been posting much on the forums lately, and one of the reasons is this:
Please stop embarrassing yourself. If you would have even bothered to look at the statistic, you would have seen a RISE in player count during summer on certain years. Your argument holds no water.
Also, I'm getting really frustrated at the frequency of your righteous-like crusade. What is your goal? You achieve nothing. Everything you say, has been said by others, and mostly debunked as well.
You are not better than Rio Bravo. There have been a lot more useful and constructive posts from people who like the changes. But at least even those admitted that there would have been a better way to go with it.
So what is your goal? Trying to prove us wrong? Then you are missing the point. You only discuss for discussion's sake and that is the worst part of it.
I can put anything you have said since your first post in the topic of the new devblog, and not only turn it against you, but debunk it. Why did I decide against it? because that is not the point. This is not a fight about who is right or who is wrong. This is not about who should play the game in which way.
Anyone can read my posts starting early in this topic. I have never said the changes are gamebreaking for me. I have never said that I cannot adapt. I will have difficulties, and still do have, but I hope in time I can adapt. So why did I comment so much? Simple:
The way CCP has been implementing and approaching this entire thing has been horrendously wrong and bad. They have been treating the issue completely backwards. And this is what it turns down to. For me, this was never about "bring back old icons." For me it was "why did you do all this so badly?"
So this is a plea to ANYONE who is bashing their skulls together, urging for a fight: You gain nothing by repeating the same thing over and over again. Look at my posts. I have been trying to bring a new point to the table with each post I did, and those have been a lot. You gain nothing by sitting there and play the game of clashing opinions. Everyone of you, on either side of the table, is wasting their time. If you think the icons are a positive change, then that's fine. But if you bash on people and ridicule them who are not fine with the change, then you are making a fool of yourself and are deliberately ignorant and narrow minded. If you don't like the icons for whatever reason, then simply saying "I hate them" is not useful. Make effort and say why don't like them and maybe what should change. Some did, some didn't.
But to all those who valiantly defend the new icons to no other avail than to defend them, INCLUDING CCP SURGE who basically insulted a sizeable chunk of players, you are missing the point.
The biggest issue was always the implementation of the change. Not the largely ignored feedback from sisi. The lack of preparation to deliver the icons was laughable. You don't bring icons without a proper scaling algorithm or without revamping your overview. CCP saying they were not aware of how many people used 90% scaling (or any kind of scaling) is an excuse. People complained who want to play at high resolutions and look at blurry icons due to upscaling. CCP knew how bad scaling was across the entire UI pretty much since scaling exists. The infopop in the options even points that out.
If the icons were a beta feature to opt in, then everything would have been a lot less problematic. And this is what made me throw myself so much into this matter. Not just because of the icons, but because of the continued lack of quality that CCP is bringing at an increased pace.
So, to everyone: stop smacking each other. Start to look at the real issues. There are undeniable facts which all sides often keep ignoring.
I strongly suggest to close this topic by now. We have the other devblog one up, and probably should start our own topic where the real issues are being nailed in a factual manner, to create a new, clean basis to work from.
I know your feelings are up and about. And I'm sorry for either side for feeling they have to berate the "opposition". But you're not helping if you keep smack talking, trolling, hating, baiting and insulting each other.
Keep it civil please. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:32:09 -
[1989] - Quote
Natascha Kerenski wrote:the problem arguing with ignorant people is: they try to drag you down to their niveau and once there they will beat you with experience....so no point in arguing with you anymore
You said it sister, testify! Amen... Much is personal preference. I see it's improved functionality as a good thing, not as fluff. If it's graphics hardware issues, my condolences, but I don't know a video game in the market that in its EULA doesn't reserve the right to adjust it's system requirements.
If it's 'My eyes hurt' or 'My brain breaks' reasonings over the new Icons...well, maybe it's time to play browser based games like Farmerama or Angry Birds.
Also, I can't stress this enough...Forum posting is not voting, and EvE Online is not a democracy.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
68
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:44:37 -
[1990] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:
Also, I can't stress this enough...Forum posting is not voting, and EvE Online is not a democracy.
Thank God it is not
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch" -- Benjamin Franklin
GÇ£Fighting for peace is like having sex for virginity."
|
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 20:55:03 -
[1991] - Quote
Natascha Kerenski wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:
Also, I can't stress this enough...Forum posting is not voting, and EvE Online is not a democracy.
Thank God it is not "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch" -- Benjamin Franklin
Heh, yeah. I view computer coding game releases to an artist hanging his latest picture on the wall. He shouldn't sit there and brush stroke every suggestion coming from admirers that walk by, on the painting he is exhibitioning...It's his heart and soul on the wall after all! Maybe next time, to appease his agent or gallery curators, he makes his new paintings with his viewing public in mind...
That said though, Game creation equals Art...in most senses of the word. Got to be true to yourself, or eventually your public sees you as pandering for attention, and not a 'Great Prophet' of controversy. Then your public will leave you anyways...
Players should treat it like the painting, post a suggestion or an appraisal. Not start Kermit Flailing, throwing things, and start insulting other Gallery patrons...The Artists are watching, and will adjust to subscribers moods, but don't expect them to stop doing what they are passionate about...They play EvE too, you know.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
52
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:09:54 -
[1992] - Quote
1. I don't understand your point, unless you consider than russian players are different from other countries or that there aren't playing with the same game mechanics than us. I know that it is frequent that a poll is rejected when his result isn't acceptable, but generally it is to stay blind of the situation. We often do that in France, to keep ourselves blind about the continuous rising of the extreme-right wing (1000 persons isn't enough to represent a country, yeah yeah... Like the 1M people in the street who represent no one, as the "silent majority" agrees to the change by staying at home... I agree, our politicians are very good humorists)...
2. Indeed, but that don't mean that the silent majority is happy of this change just because they are silent on the official forum. The poll is a proof of it and was exposed here to counter this argument.
3. and 5. Already answered by previous post.
Quote:I'm not happy either with the overall numbers goin downward, but the recent changes since last November aren't necesserally the cause of this. I do agree. I think that the expansions of the last semester of 2013 was the start of the decline process. If you check the newborn graph, we can see that there was a decent amount of new players at end 2013, who probably hide the decline by the new logged players it offered. Until it wasn't enough to hide it starting 02/14...
It is probably that, because we can't say that the competitors was the problem. ED was release only at end 2014 and Star Citizen isn't released before 2016, so they can't be the reason. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
58
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:14:53 -
[1993] - Quote
Natya Mebelle wrote:Please stop embarrassing yourself. If you would have even bothered to look at the statistic, you would have seen a RISE in player count during summer on certain years. Your argument holds no water.
Also, I'm getting really frustrated at the frequency of your righteous-like crusade. What is your goal? You achieve nothing. Everything you say, has been said by others, and mostly debunked as well.
You are not better than Rio Bravo. There have been a lot more useful and constructive posts from people who like the changes. But at least even those admitted that there would have been a better way to go with it.
So what is your goal? Trying to prove us wrong? Then you are missing the point. You only discuss for discussion's sake and that is the worst part of it.
I can put anything you have said since your first post in the topic of the new devblog, and not only turn it against you, but debunk it. Why did I decide against it? because that is not the point. This is not a fight about who is right or who is wrong. This is not about who should play the game in which way.
I don't feel embarassed at all. Just like i said if one year over 10 there's no decrese of connections, that's not a proof. :)
My goal is to show that there are other people that are OK with the new icone set. My goal is to show to people claiming they are the "majority" or they represent "everyone" that they are wrong. My goal was to show that arguing about the icone themselvs instead of the WAY CCP released them is a false battle. Maybe i went wrong on that last one by answering to some people here, i agree that it did not help to go forward on that topic.
Also :
http://i.imgur.com/QHvv3CK.png?1
http://i.imgur.com/Ljd4GAM.png
Constructive enough ? Also, i said multiple things in this thread : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=430496
Aside the "attacks" against me, I am deeply agree with the rest of your post. CCP did wrong by releasing this 'feature' that early.
But now that it's done, let's just help them with what could/should be improved. And stop whining. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
72
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:22:13 -
[1994] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote: ........................... 6. I wonder who are the selfcentered people : - The one thinking that their opinions are what the majority of Eve Online players think, or - The one that stands before spoiled kids who want their TOY BACK NAOO. ? ............................
Dont misunderstand - the "selfcentered bitches" in my post didnt refer to the people who like or dislike some of the recent changes. Each of those surely have their valid and personal arguments and many of them debate about the pros and cons and possible solutions/compromises in a most civilized manner in this thread.
I only refered to the thread-trolls, that flaunt their little egos regardless of the damage they bring to such necessary discussions and the cause behind it. They dont care about the game or their fellow players, as long as they can have some personal fun in instigating anger and mischief with however poor arguments or haughty attitudes.
Sadly the ISD doesnt care to shoot them - perhaps because they seem to be the last ones in this thread that still champion the "change above everything" idea .......
The rest of your points was so ..... beyond argumentation, that I-¦ll just give you the hint to look at the 5 year statistics before rambling about "seasonal" fluctuations - the game is about to hit a 5 year low, even during the much hyped Icarna crisis it looked healthy in comparison. And "looking at the 1 year statistics" doesnt mean there has to be a one year trend - on the contrary, it just allows you to see very clearly that the real dive begins like 6 months ago (very well accompanying some of your quoted changes). I |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:22:52 -
[1995] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:1. I don't understand your point, unless you consider than russian players are different from other countries or that there aren't playing with the same game mechanics than us. I know that it is frequent that a poll is rejected when his result isn't acceptable, but generally it is to stay blind of the situation. We often do that in France, to keep ourselves blind about the continuous rising of the extreme-right wing (1000 persons isn't enough to represent a country, yeah yeah... Like the 1M people in the street who represent no one, as the "silent majority" agrees to the change by staying at home... I agree, our politicians are very good humorists)... 2. Indeed, but that don't mean that the silent majority is happy of this change just because they are silent on the official forum. The poll is a proof of it and was exposed here to counter this argument. 3. and 5. Already answered by previous posts of players here. Quote:I'm not happy either with the overall numbers goin downward, but the recent changes since last November aren't necesserally the cause of this. Ah, I do agree. I think that the expansions of the last semester of 2013 was the start of the decline process. If you check the newborn graph, we can see that there was a decent amount of new players at end 2013, who probably hide the decline by the new logged players it offered. Until it wasn't enough to hide it starting 02/14... It is probably that, because we can't say that the competitors was the problem. ED was released only at end 2014 and Star Citizen isn't released before 2016, so they can't be the reason.
1. If you can't understand my point i won't repeat it. Sorry. It could be german or australians, my answer would've been the same.
2. In point 1., i'm showing you that this poll is irrelevent. Just like the argument saying that every other people not posting here is absolutly satisfied with the changes. Either side has no numbers at all to proove anything about their representativity whatsoever.
3.4.5. This site show nothing at all ABOUT the changes. That's a general downward trend that started before the new release calendar. There is no correlation.
|
Kesta De'Kranken
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:26:02 -
[1996] - Quote
Cleanse Serce and Rio Bravo are trolls. Their "traffic" has made up much of the last 10 pages of this thread....without merit. Please don't respond to them. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:27:33 -
[1997] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:3.4.5. This site show nothing at all ABOUT the changes. That's a general downward trend that started before the new release calendar. There is no correlation.
I agree! There are market forces at play, much bigger than any one release... Maybe they'll come out with an 'EvE II' with whole new archtecture, and no need to always be backwards compatible.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:36:11 -
[1998] - Quote
Kesta De'Kranken wrote:Cleanse Serce and Rio Bravo are trolls. Their "traffic" has made up much of the last 10 pages of this thread....without merit. Please don't respond to them.
Lol. We like the Icons. We debated why other people don't like them. Some reasons were sound and I liked their posts, others their reasonings were spurious, inconsistant, illogical, or just plain weird. You have to stick to the issues, avoid labelling people to discredit their position. Not defending your position with fact, but with pesonal attacks can display how weak the position you've taken is... In other words, if your argument is faulty and you can't 'win them over' with logic or facts, you have to resort to name calling, slander, etc.
As Oscar Wilde once said...'Ridicule is the tribute paid to the genius, by the mediocre.'
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:37:58 -
[1999] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Dont misunderstand - the "selfcentered bitches" in my post didnt refer to the people who like or dislike some of the recent changes. Each of those surely have their valid and personal arguments and many of them debate about the pros and cons and possible solutions/compromises in a most civilized manner in this thread.
I only refered to the thread-trolls, that flaunt their little egos regardless of the damage they bring to such necessary discussions and the cause behind it. They dont care about the game or their fellow players, as long as they can have some personal fun in instigating anger and mischief with however poor arguments or haughty attitudes.
Sadly the ISD doesnt care to shoot them - perhaps because they seem to be the last ones in this thread that still champion the "change above everything" idea .......
The rest of your points was so ..... beyond argumentation, that I-¦ll just give you the hint to look at the 5 year statistics before rambling about "seasonal" fluctuations - the game is about to hit a 5 year low, even during the much hyped Icarna crisis it looked healthy in comparison. And "looking at the 1 year statistics" doesnt mean there has to be a one year trend - on the contrary, it just allows you to see very clearly that the real dive begins like 6 months ago (very well accompanying some of your quoted changes). I
You are right, "spoiled kids" is too much even if i was responding to "selfcentered bitches".
I've looked at those graphs, and sorry but from my point of view the downward trend start before PCU 14 (early february 2014) which is 3 months after Rubicon realease if i'm correct, so for my point of view, there is no correlation between this trend and recent changes CCP had done.
Which i'm more afraid of is that there's no interest growing for potential NEW players. Despite GFX changes, despite rookie "tutorial" changes, despite "This is Eve" trailer. |
Iphigeneia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:50:15 -
[2000] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote: I am seeing perfectly with the new icone. Now what ? Why i am perfectly ok with new icones, and you're not ?
Obviously, because not everyone is you. Please, for the love of whatever you worship, stop assuming that because it works for you, it must therefore work exactly the same for everyone else.
Your posts are so narrow-minded it astonishes me. Maybe instead of attacking people for having problems, you maybe stop to have some consideration for people other than yourself. You're the one attacking these people, not the other way around. I'm continually seeing you blame the players who have reported valid troubles, and yet these players are coming back only to reiterate their trouble and what THEIR problems are with these icons, after you attack them.
Please do us all a favour and think what your mother would say to your posts before you put them up.
Honestly, it saddens me that the people who like the icons are the ones who seem to post the MOST negativity in this thread. By and large, the people who don't like the icons are slagging off CCP and the icons. The people who do like the icons are slagging off *the players who don't like the icons". Neither the rude comments to CCP NOR the rude comments to players having visual difficulty are at all ok. You do not help your cause, whatever it is, by insulting others.
The icons that are currently on the overview are NOT WELL DONE. They should NOT have been shipped after the feedback on Sisi. So far, that's been a common ground of agreement from all sides INCLUDING from CCP.
If those of us who have legitimate visual issues with the icons go silent because we've all quit, then CCP won't have any feedback saying what's wrong with them, so they can continue to be improved. If you like the icons, PLEASE continue to post why you like that and what makes them better -- instead of focusing your energies on people who don't like them.
I'm sorry, but Constantine, Cleanse, and Rio -- instead of being civil in your disagreements with the icon haters, you've just made yourselves and your opinions made known not only more negatively but more offensively, and that's why people's hackles are rising against you. Perhaps try civilly disagreeing instead of attacking those who disagree with you, you might find better responses. |
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:52:38 -
[2001] - Quote
Iphigeneia wrote:Obviously, because not everyone is you. Please, for the love of whatever you worship, stop assuming that because it works for you, it must therefore work exactly the same for everyone else.
Your posts are so narrow-minded it astonishes me.
I just showing that their argument is as bad as mine.
Stating "i'm distinguishing less than before with those changes" is as stupid as stating "i'm sayin more than before". By doing so i'm poiting out that if you're distinguishing less and me more, who is right ? Noone. |
Mike Azariah
The Scope Gallente Federation
2840
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 21:56:11 -
[2002] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Kesta De'Kranken wrote:As politely as I can.... Mike, I don't know you, but I'm assuming you are a very nice person. But, your post as a CSM is fail. IMO... Isn't your job is to represent the user community? And that if 98 pages of user response is 99% negative (excluding trolls), and if only 10% (or less) of users post who feel strongly about an issue, then this means the majority of paying customers don't like the changes. And so if the user community is 99% against this change, then your job is to make this feedback to CCP painfully clear and back the users regardless whether you agree or not. I'm not attacking you, I'm just commenting that "I" feel your job as CSM is to communicate user input to CCP, not give your opinion or defend CCP (which I don't think you did BTW). Regardless, a big thank you for even posting in this thread which clearly is of importance to [b wrote: paying[/b] customers...or at least people who [b]used[/b] to pay.... it's certainly more attention than CCP feels this issue merits...
Thank you for participating (either way) Sir. Actually I contact with Mike Azariah ingame for the same reason
Fair critiques.
Simple answer is, if you read back over what I said, is that I have chosen to push for fixes to the icon set in the manner I think (a) has the best chance of coming to pass and (b) I really think needs doing.
I do not serve as a speaker for ALL of you. That would presume that ALL of you agree and that all of you voted (for me or someone else) I stated in the elections that I would take input and choose what measures I would push for with CCP. I will listen to all of you but I am not some blank slate you can write all your messages onto to be passed on to the game devs.
I would point out I AM the guy here, listening to you and pretty much the only one responding. Make of that what you will.
But back to the icons.
Yes, they need to be usable to all player, all usage. Yes, I am asking for that to be fixed, soon. No I did NOT find the recent icon blog insulting but, rather, a human writing to you and most of the angry responses made me wonder how some of you last on this thing called the 'net. I am not saying htfu but try not to be one giant exposed nerve.
I saw a few people with alternate ideas but wonder if they read each others critiques as implementation of those 'five minutes in microsoft paint' ideas tend to be just as bad or, if colour coded, even worse.
Like I said. I am still trying to engage both you and CCP on this subject. But I am not the string and tin cans so you can yell at CCP through me. The good news is that I am not running for CSM XI so you have less than a year left of my useless ass and then you will have the full attention of the other CSM . . . .
good luck with that
m
Mike Azariah Gö¼GöÇGöÇGö¼n++ ¯|(pâä)/¯
|
Iphigeneia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:05:28 -
[2003] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Iphigeneia wrote:Obviously, because not everyone is you. Please, for the love of whatever you worship, stop assuming that because it works for you, it must therefore work exactly the same for everyone else.
Your posts are so narrow-minded it astonishes me. I just showing that their argument is as bad as mine. Stating "i'm distinguishing less than before with those changes" is as stupid as stating "i'm sayin more than before". By doing so i'm poiting out that if you're distinguishing less and me more, who is right ? Noone.
That's the funny thing about opinions. They aren't facts. Opinions, therefore, aren't right or wrong.
There's a solid group of people whose opinion of these icons are that they are much more difficult to use to distinguish ships, items, celestials, etc than before. There's a solid group of people whose opinion of these icons are that they are great and show far more information quickly than the old set.
NEITHER GROUP IS WRONG.
But because CCP has a) pushed out this change after testing on Sisi without implenting much, if any, of the changes recommended by the feedback and b) now admitted that the icons could have been done better, especially including an admission that the icons AREN'T showing as intended on 90% scaling, the FACT becomes that the icons are not a finished product and will be improved.
So, in order for CCP to best improve the icons to suit the MOST players, they need to hear feedback. FROM BOTH SIDES. So if you think the icons are great, tell CCP what's so good about them. If you think they suck ass, then say why.
Attacking people who don't think your way is completely counterproductive. And yes, that goes for everyone, not just the people who like the icons, btw. However, I've seen more trolling from the people who claim the icons are great... |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:06:38 -
[2004] - Quote
EvE Online is not a charity. Sorry for vision troubles, we all have restraints...It shouldn't affect other players gameplay though. That is why CCP is at this moment making the Icon system customizable. There problem solved!
I for one, would like to use the woman's bathroom at the mall. It would be exciting! But I am not allowed to go in there. Not to fear, I have options! People that stop me, point me to the Men's washroom. Curses! Foiled again...So there are washrooms for people with different needs. Family ones too, with diaper disposal.
So, CCP in effect made two washrooms. One for vision impared pilots (that probably should not be driving a spaceship, maybe their insurance should be increased)...and one for Regular all-seeing pilots that would clearly have all advantage in PvP against those who have to fly their ship with Brail.
I sound insensative, but neither should I be beholden to people that have a disability on the other side of the world when I want to fly my spaceship with enhanced icons.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:11:12 -
[2005] - Quote
Iphigeneia wrote:NEITHER GROUP IS WRONG.
The only thing i've done here is responding to people saying ROLL BACK with no arguments, sayin they are the majority. I should've ignored those one and focus on the content. |
Iphigeneia
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:19:51 -
[2006] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:EvE Online is not a charity. Sorry for vision troubles, we all have restraints...It shouldn't affect other players gameplay though. That is why CCP is at this moment making the Icon system customizable. There problem solved!
Minor quibble:
Problem isn't solved until they actually roll out updated and corrected icon sets, and the icon customisation they've promised.
Problem is being addressed. It's quite possible they'll make things worse than before, you know. And quite possible the icons will be ten times better. I'm personally waiting to celebrate the solving of the problems until they've actually been... solved. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:33:52 -
[2007] - Quote
I'm kinda skeptical about that customizable icone they would give to us. Remember they tokk us away the RGB sliders for UI ? I'm still mad about it :'( |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:35:33 -
[2008] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:I'm kinda skeptical about that customizable icone they would give to us. Remember they tokk us away the RGB sliders for UI ? I'm still mad about it :'(
RGB Sliders? What was that?
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Micky Forcet
Corus Industries Fortuna Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:35:58 -
[2009] - Quote
There should have been immediate roll back.. as clearly the release is not fit for TQ release...
There are a number of issues regardless of the icons themselves..
Once peeps with sight difficulties raised issues, it should have been rolled back straight away if there was not a quick fix..
The whole ICONGATE puts CCP in a very poor place, and shows how zeal for changes sake, regardless of impact on the whole EVE community, is very very disappointing.. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
60
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:42:57 -
[2010] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Cleanse Serce wrote:I'm kinda skeptical about that customizable icone they would give to us. Remember they tokk us away the RGB sliders for UI ? I'm still mad about it :'( RGB Sliders? What was that?
Before UI revamp we had sliders to precisely chose the color of the different part of UI. |
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:48:46 -
[2011] - Quote
Oh right, I remember RGB Sliders...I miss the Jukebox too, now null just moans and groans at me, like its passing a stone or something...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Natascha Kerenski
SUDDEN STRIKE SOCIETY
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:55:12 -
[2012] - Quote
6 hours eve ambient
my jukebox workaround
GÇ£Fighting for peace is like having sex for virginity."
|
SamuraiJack
Tritanium Industries and Technology
144
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:56:23 -
[2013] - Quote
Well thats two CSM posters in this thread. I suppose after 100 pages it was about time.
Doesnt really get much hope up for Eve this year if neither CCP or CSM are listening/acting.
/me goes back to playing Steam Sale games instead.
PS i have popcorn ordered for the Sov thread whenever CCP drop that on TQ for "testing" i mean live play...
SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
|
SamuraiJack
Tritanium Industries and Technology
144
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 22:59:49 -
[2014] - Quote
Maybe the CSM should have a post about what has been achieved last year and what they'd like to achieve this year?
Active issues being discussed etc so we can see if anything is being done. I know prerelease stuff is under NDA but surely that hitlist of issues in eve they want handled should be able to be discussed?
Otherwise you just appear to be sitting on the mountain doing nothing.
Lets hear some news.
Cos when i looked the other day the CSM forums on here havent been touched since "hey CSM has new members"
SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
|
SamuraiJack
Tritanium Industries and Technology
144
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 23:01:00 -
[2015] - Quote
Oh and i highly suggest you bitchslap ISD/CCP into making that CSM post appear on the launcher.
You know. Publicity Profile and all?
Given these forums are a cesspool of scum and villainy.
SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 23:13:56 -
[2016] - Quote
It's like I fell in love all over again, Thanks!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
SamuraiJack
Tritanium Industries and Technology
145
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 23:26:41 -
[2017] - Quote
http://www.modenstudios.com/EVE/music/
https://soundcloud.com/ccpgames
CCP have annoying habit of posting themes as WAV files. Also their MP3s generally dont have tags.
There is also a huge original client dump of eve music on evefiles
Search http://eve-files.com/ using terms like "soundtrack" or "music" or "sound", etc.
Example: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Xercodo/EVE_In-Game_Soundtrack.zip http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Nu11u5/EVE_Soundtrack-Revelations_1.4_Edition.zip http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Pennwisedom/Eve_Soundtrack%5B1%5D.zip
There is a missing track thou. The original "Akat Mountains" is sadly missing from CCPs Soundcloud.
it is however... here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C_WwNcMizc and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4Kt2vw2XNM
This version appears to be a remake of somekind? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxjyojLPqmc
SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
|
Sgt Ocker
Burning Sky Labs
564
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 23:51:29 -
[2018] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I have been active in the split off thread in regards to the icons as the main general thread is too noisy to make any decent headway in. But here I am.
Yes, the 90% issue needs a fix fast as does the colour blind. Yes I like the logic of the new sets and think it is more in the details of the implemntation that in the change itself.
A lot of the reaction is from people who have almsot automated their responses over the years to tge old ways and object to being asked to learn a new set. IF it is visible (90% and colour) and if it has an internal logic then I am ok with the change
Oh and drones need to look less like ships
GÇïm See if you can talk to them about the default "sort by color of tag and background", it really is a pain when there are 400+ items in your overview and your trying to get ship types together.
All icons need to do is line up correctly in my overview so I can at a glance of the "type" column, pick my next target. (whether he is -5, -10, is mostly irrelevant).
Oh and a way to play with overviews while docked would be a nice addition.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
55
|
Posted - 2015.06.21 23:53:49 -
[2019] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:3.4.5. This site show nothing at all ABOUT the changes. That's a general downward trend that started before the new release calendar. There is no correlation. Because bad expansions won't have any impact ?
As I said, I think that the bad expansions of 2013 was the start of this negative trend. The new release calendar is a response to the incoming competitors, but as they add bad changes like the destruction of the UI, obviously it will help to maintain this trend downward, and maybe amplify it. |
Circumstantial Evidence
196
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 00:05:21 -
[2020] - Quote
SamuraiJack wrote:Maybe the CSM should have a post about what has been achieved last year and what they'd like to achieve this year? Active issues being discussed etc so we can see if anything is being done. [...]Otherwise you just appear to be sitting on the mountain doing nothing. ... CSM Sugar Kyle writes prolifically on her blog - you can go over to her mountain, and even leave polite messages at her doorstep ;)
Sugar Kyle on LowSecLifestyle, 2015-May-31 wrote:Icons will also be changing on Tuesday. I've played with them. I'm not in love with them and I don't find them to be visually more understandable. There is visually more of them and the difference between them is more noticeable than the gradient of red cross size that we have had for so long. I'm up in the air about it. I, however, predict enormous fall out and anger from the player base that does not visit Sisi when they log in on Tuesday and their overview and in space icons are all different. Rollbacks will be demanded. I then predict a lot of random deaths and mistakes in general as people learn the new icons. |
|
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 09:17:33 -
[2021] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote: Thanks for sharing this blog. GÖÑ |
haralampijem
Fatal and The rabbit The G0dfathers
22
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 09:30:33 -
[2022] - Quote
For me the problem with icons is solved.....I don't play Eve online anymore. |
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
34
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 13:13:39 -
[2023] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote: Like I said. I am still trying to engage both you and CCP on this subject. But I am not the string and tin cans so you can yell at CCP through me. The good news is that I am not running for CSM XI so you have less than a year left of my useless ass and then you will have the full attention of the other CSM . . . .
Hi, Mike
I still hope the issue with new icons set is still on the table, because of theirs rather massive anticipation. It would be great if CSM offer CCP to make icon sets customizable, just because these are just sprites loaded at the client's side, no code or protocols modifications necessary. This sloution will leave most of players happy. Thise who love new icons would use them, those who prefer old icons would be able to use the old ones. This is just that simple.
Overview still needs at least 5 more tabs, and way more foreground/background colors. Also there is a special tread devoted to overview usage for colorblind players, it would be great to convince CCP to proceed with setups for such players in question.
Please, confirm the peaceful conflict resolution is still possible, as the icons issue is not resolved properly yet.
Thanks. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 13:28:18 -
[2024] - Quote
Dino Zavr wrote:Mike Azariah wrote: Like I said. I am still trying to engage both you and CCP on this subject. But I am not the string and tin cans so you can yell at CCP through me. The good news is that I am not running for CSM XI so you have less than a year left of my useless ass and then you will have the full attention of the other CSM . . . .
Hi, Mike I still hope the issue with new icons set is still on the table, because of theirs rather massive anticipation. It would be great if CSM offer CCP to make icon sets customizable, just because these are just sprites loaded at the client's side, no code or protocols modifications necessary. This sloution will leave most of players happy. Thise who love new icons would use them, those who prefer old icons would be able to use the old ones. This is just that simple. Overview still needs at least 5 more tabs, and way more foreground/background colors. Also there is a special tread devoted to overview usage for colorblind players, it would be great to convince CCP to proceed with setups for such players in question. Please, confirm the peaceful conflict resolution is still possible, as the icons issue is not resolved properly yet. Thanks.
It is not that simple, if ever they chose to give the players customizable UI, wich i strongly doubt given that they took RGB sliders away from us, they gonna have to do it the entire way.
I mean not only the icones themselvs, but colors of them, standing icones also, combat timers, relationship icones, where to place them, how many of them, glowing effects, bling effects, what do you want display, what you don't, etc, etc.
That means working on a full scalable set as well, not only 90% 100% 110% but any kind of scale.
That is a HUGE job in order to have something usefull overall. I don't want to have a customizable tool if the only customizable thing is to be able to draw my own icones in paint... i want the whole thing, and that won't happen any time soon, if it ever happen at all. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
259
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 15:40:30 -
[2025] - Quote
CCP devs
We are waiting your reply |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
244
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 15:56:26 -
[2026] - Quote
I'm not one of those planning to quit over this, but I want CCP to know that this stuff is not a direction that I as a customer, am happy with. Removing UI elements and features I liked an was using, such as the jukebox, or replacing them with versions that are just not better. Like the neocom, 7 months in now isnt it? I still make regular mistakes with it, the monochrome stuff is harder to tell apart than colored icons. The UI sliders are also something I miss, I cant get the UI to look as It would be optimal for me anymore, it's a pure downgrade. The new Icons, many of them look too similar, telling apart a sea of different ships, wrecks... it all becomes a sea of triangles This isnt an improvement either.
All those things are making the game slightly less and less enjoyable for me with each "improvement" the best case scenario with "improvements" in this regard, is things like the module rebalancing and renaming, which I just don't really care about, or the download on demand client, which I really don't care about. those things were not broken, but they aren't really now either.
So I'm just at a loss now, what can I as a customer, do, to tell CCP, that I'm NOT happy with those recent "improvements", and feature removals?
We tried telling them, over and over. They are still going on with the same plan of removing features and "improving" others.
For many players, this mess has already pushed them off, the last 18 months of http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility isnt looking too good, and I'm starting to get flashbacks to SOE's "new game enhancements" for star wars galaxies. Yes much of that stuff was not well balanced, some class combos were overpowered forever, but that patch, removed some of the games key features, in the name of balance, and "improvements" Then as half the playerbase quit in very short order, SOE ignored all feedback, declared success, and patted each other on the back for a job well done.
CCP, please don't make that happen here..
And last but not least, because for some reason this needs to be said, #1 If I didn't like CCP, and have hope for the future of EVE online, I would NOT be on the forums posting in the feedback thread. I would already have quit.
and #2 Official polls about this stuff, from CCP, would REALLY help. I see both sides here make a lot of assumptions about the silent majority, the truth of that is simply, we dont have a clue what the silent majority thinks, untill we get them to speak. And they clearly do not like forums.
But seriously CCP, make a system for an ingame survey, neutrally worded, to not bias the community either way, and make some simple reward for completing the survey. Surveys can easily be annoying, which is why many avoid them, to not annoy their customers. But if you give something like a gecko drone, as a reward for answering a few questions, I'm quite sure most of the player base would be very happy to give their opinion :) |
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
109
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 16:58:17 -
[2027] - Quote
Panterata wrote:CCP devs
We are waiting your reply
Reddit appears to be the best place to get a CCP response, unfortunately. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 18:09:11 -
[2028] - Quote
Louanne Barros wrote:Panterata wrote:CCP devs
We are waiting your reply Reddit appears to be the best place to get a CCP response, unfortunately.
Can you share a link of one post they've been active recently ? |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
169
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 19:20:48 -
[2029] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:
Like I said. I am still trying to engage both you and CCP on this subject. But I am not the string and tin cans so you can yell at CCP through me. The good news is that I am not running for CSM XI so you have less than a year left of my useless ass and then you will have the full attention of the other CSM . . . .
good luck with that
m
It doesn't make 'voting for CSM' next year sound very appealing if that's how the CSM generally feels after meeting with CCP. And yes, you're the main visible one, which I appreciate, actually, but the lack of expression by the CSM body makes it look like CCP has just shut that organization out of being a channel for meaningful player input too.
Test server participants ignored. CSM non-existent. Players generally ignored except by a couple of 'anti-players' that tell players to leave if the game's usability is taken beyond common human faults. Ouch. Why have forums or test servers, btw? |
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
238
|
Posted - 2015.06.22 21:58:30 -
[2030] - Quote
After keeping up and reading through over 114 pages of both this feedback section as well as the new "Dev blog: Feedback on the new Overview Brackets" page, I've consolidated enough to handle a few large chunks of personal, constructive feedback for the Overview Iconography issues, and figured I'd leave a redirecting note here. It's a waste to repeat when unnecessary:
Part 1 of 2 genuine, constructive feedback: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5838804#post5838804
Part 2 of 2 genuine, constructive feedback: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5838810#post5838810
JT Win7Pro,64bit, Carnyx |
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
172
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 00:33:10 -
[2031] - Quote
Just read all of that and that was quite useful and detailed, thanks! |
slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 10:09:14 -
[2032] - Quote
19k players average.... no problem, keep on! that's true, eve is a place of ever changing, more space, less icons to see! that's a good solution too ^^ source: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
262
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 12:50:03 -
[2033] - Quote
slphy vansyl wrote:19k players average.... no problem, keep on! that's true, eve is a place of ever changing, more space, less icons to see! that's a good solution too ^^ source: http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility and thanks a lot for the most constructive reply from Jared Tobin, great job to write
The time is coming when only CCP will play with the new icons |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:08:24 -
[2034] - Quote
Hmmm, new patch today, related to this last rollout, or prep for the next one? |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:22:49 -
[2035] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:Hmmm, new patch today, related to this last rollout, or prep for the next one?
I've read somewhere that tuesday will patch something about icones, can't recall the post though. |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
175
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:27:52 -
[2036] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Joia Crenca wrote:Hmmm, new patch today, related to this last rollout, or prep for the next one? I've read somewhere that tuesday will patch something about icones, can't recall the post though.
I don't know if Burn Amarr is finished, as that would be the best place to tell the difference between NPC (Concord) and player icons (including many wrecks ) |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 15:31:57 -
[2037] - Quote
There should be a "patch note" even for tiny patches |
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
166
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:10:37 -
[2038] - Quote
Hey folks,
So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience.
Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.
We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.
There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
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CAPS TIME
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:38:07 -
[2039] - Quote
Will EWAR drones mantain a different icon from the combat ones? I love that feature in their current iteration. |
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
168
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:42:57 -
[2040] - Quote
CAPS TIME wrote:Will EWAR drones mantain a different icon from the combat ones? I love that feature in their current iteration.
Yes, they will.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1895
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:49:02 -
[2041] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
Aww that's great news!
May I suggest for you to change the wreck icon to be less similar to a ship icon while you are at it?
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
262
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:58:10 -
[2042] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons? Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses |
Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 17:59:34 -
[2043] - Quote
What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game... |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:04:54 -
[2044] - Quote
Altrue wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
Aww that's great news! May I suggest for you to change the wreck icon to be less similar to a ship icon while you are at it?
And match Emptyness / fill of an item (wreck vs containers)
|
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
169
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:22:14 -
[2045] - Quote
Joe Gormley wrote:What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game...
When I say blue, I mean teal maybe?
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
262
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:23:37 -
[2046] - Quote
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons? Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:26:27 -
[2047] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Joe Gormley wrote:What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game... When I say blue, I mean teal maybe?
That might be a problem for colorblind players.
+10 standing = dark blue +5 standing = light blue NPC = teal Limited Engagement = Cyan
You'll wait for their feedback, but i'm sure there're gonna be issues :p |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:49:40 -
[2048] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.
nice, the thicker stroke on icons sounds like a really big improvment, will logon to sisi and have a look
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1895
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 18:52:25 -
[2049] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Joe Gormley wrote:What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game... When I say blue, I mean teal maybe? That might be a problem for colorblind players. +10 standing = dark blue +5 standing = light blue NPC = teal Limited Engagement = Cyan You'll wait for their feedback, but i'm sure there're gonna be issues :p
When is there not a problem for colorblind players?
You need to keep in mind that +10, +5 and limited engagement are customizablemeaning if there is any issue they can fix it themselves. That's what customization is for.
Besides, there is a difference between the color of an icon, and the background color of an icon.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
62
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:08:43 -
[2050] - Quote
Altrue wrote: When is there not a problem for colorblind players?
You need to keep in mind that +10, +5 and limited engagement are customizablemeaning if there is any issue they can fix it themselves. That's what customization is for.
Besides, there is a difference between the color of an icon, and the background color of an icon.
Yes that can be customized, yes they can change color if there're any problems, and yes icone color is different than a shape color.
http://i.imgur.com/rE6ZQAX.png?1
But as you can see in this PBG i've just made, "teal" is quite close to white for them, i'm not sure they gonna be able to make a difference "at-a-glance". I'm just asking directly to them. I might be wrong, CCP will need feedback anyway. :) |
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John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:18:05 -
[2051] - Quote
Goddam! I want to fly spaceships and loose tons of them, I want to spent lotta $$$ on them. But I cant :) Because these broken icons! Just roll'em back and make any improvements as long as you want! |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Cataclysm Enterprises Pandemic Legion
225
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:30:52 -
[2052] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.
What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon? Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan.... |
Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
1014
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:39:24 -
[2053] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Joe Gormley wrote:What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game... When I say blue, I mean teal maybe? So probably like this?
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
|
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
251
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 19:49:00 -
[2054] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.
Might I suggest visiting the Color Blind Awareness Organization. They have interesting comparison charts which, if I may suggest, would be handy to keep on file for all art and graphic designers to reference:
http://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/
Personally, two friends of mine suffer 2 of the 3 types of color blindness. The one suffers the most common "deuteranopia" ("red/green" color blindness) which means any color that includes red in it, is "subtracted" in some (or all) level. I've noticed he completely thinks red is brown. He also has mentioned that vegetation is "a mustard brown or yellow" and the "sky is a deep blue". The other friend has "protanopia" (a slight variant of "red/green") where, oddly, she describes that, on some days the sky is "blue" (to her) but on other days where the sky is tinted/stormy (or dawn/dusk), she has described the sky as "a little like a pink day"...
It "appears", in my experiences and studies, that the most common color that will be seen by "most" will be a variant of blue. There are always exceptions, but in my graphic design jobs in the late 90s, it was imperative to focus on "pure" greens, reds and blues. I am hoping things have changed since then, but even back in '98, I had a program that was able to (at a simple keystroke) switch my entire monitor through various color blindnesses so that I could "see" what colors of things which a company/client wanted to be "highlighted" (or "stand out") to the largest group of potential customers had to be a "commonly shared" color of distinction from the rest of the text/shapes/colors etc.
It's been awhile, and I forget the hexadecimal code, but the best color was somewhere in the blue wavelength areas of the visible light spectrum.
I'm sure there are advances in programs for graphic designers using both RGB and CMYK color preparations on computer monitors these days, but it is a rather basic filtration system program that barely takes up space.
I hope this helps.
|
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
251
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 20:06:59 -
[2055] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Altrue wrote: When is there not a problem for colorblind players?
You need to keep in mind that +10, +5 and limited engagement are customizablemeaning if there is any issue they can fix it themselves. That's what customization is for.
Besides, there is a difference between the color of an icon, and the background color of an icon.
Yes that can be customized, they can change color to counter colorblind issues and icone / background color are easily reckoning. http://i.imgur.com/rE6ZQAX.png?1 But as you can see in this picture i've just made, "teal" is quite close to white for them, i'm not sure they gonna be able to make a difference "at-a-glance".
Actually, that is not true, nor is the image you show accurate. Blue and teal subtract some greens and whites, but the closer you shift from blue, MOST (not all) color blind variants will see a less "deep" blue, and it will be a soft blue or even a not-so-deep "purple/mauve/periwinkle" type of color.
The only way for blue to be white when a person is also unable to differentiate green and red would be for the person to sadly suffer the rarest and most "close to actual definition" of the term "color blindness": total inability to see any color:
"achromatopsia" (monochromacy): the complete inability to see color.
The eyes of "color blind" sufferers also adapt under various conditions. The light around them, are they in a room or outdoors? So they have a window allowing sunlight in while viewing a monitor, or are they in the dark? These do add complications to making a pick of a specific color, as individuals' eyes learn to adapt to sometimes shift the color interpretation differently than they "normally" see color shifts.
That would be the only reason, in my mind for utilitarian purposes only, to need slider RGB adjustments: so that people can adjust the colors to their own perceived light.
I believe this is discussed on the site I mentioned in my previous response, with the adjustments and variations upon light conditions and color perception changes on the several Color Blindness sites, especially Wikipedia's page of Color Blindess, subsection on perception and DESIGN IMPLICATIONS. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 20:25:15 -
[2056] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote:Actually, that is not true, nor is the image you show accurate. Blue and teal subtract some greens and whites, but the closer you shift from blue, MOST (not all) color blind variants will see a less "deep" blue, and it will be a soft blue or even a not-so-deep "purple/mauve/periwinkle" type of color. The only way for blue to be white when a person is also unable to differentiate green and red would be for the person to sadly suffer the rarest and most "close to actual definition" of the term "color blindness": total inability to see any color: "achromatopsia" (monochromacy): the complete inability to see color. The eyes of "color blind" sufferers also adapt under various conditions. The light around them, are they in a room or outdoors? So they have a window allowing sunlight in while viewing a monitor, or are they in the dark? These do add complications to making a pick of a specific color, as individuals' eyes learn to adapt to sometimes shift the color interpretation differently than they "normally" see color shifts. That would be the only reason, in my mind for utilitarian purposes only, to need slider RGB adjustments: so that people can adjust the colors to their own perceived light. I believe this is discussed on the site I mentioned in my previous response, with the adjustments and variations upon light conditions and color perception changes on the several Color Blindness sites, especially Wikipedia's page of Color Blindess, subsection on perception and DESIGN IMPLICATIONS. What is not 'true' ? I'm saying so many things.
"Teal is close to white" don't mean "Teal is white". The image i show is accurate, that's a color filter used in graphics to precisely see what colorblind people would see. I know the filter can't be 100% accurate cause each and every colorblinds have their own strength but it gives an idea to the designer. I might even add that colorblind people can distinguish more shades in yellows and blues that we not-colorblind people see because they live with and learnt to. Just like Greenland true people would see way more shades in the whites than us.
I'm agree, best thing would be to have RGB sliders, but as i said before, since they took that away from us with the UI re-vamp, i'm afraid it won't happen anytime soon, if ever.
So best thing is to ask them if this teal tint on NPC is changing anything at all or not. My belief is, i might be wrong, that in the heat of a battle, if ever it happen near friendly NPCs, this 'teal tint' might be too 'light' for them to distinguish from white shapes clutter. (even if that's light grey more than white, anyway)..
Darkblad wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Joe Gormley wrote:What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game... When I say blue, I mean teal maybe? So probably like this? Yes that's how i understood CCP Claymore. |
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
158
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 20:37:46 -
[2057] - Quote
Please please please make the next change as customizable as possible...
People will be able to set up icons to their own tastes and will love you for it...
Add classic X icon in the package aswell plz |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
251
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 20:43:34 -
[2058] - Quote
Darkblad wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Joe Gormley wrote:What is the reasoning for blue???
Blue is kind of a special colour in game... When I say blue, I mean teal maybe? So probably like this? This looks a lot clearer :) Although I dont think we will see all that many npc capsules :) |
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
254
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:07:18 -
[2059] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Jared Tobin wrote:Actually, that is not true, nor is the image you show accurate. Blue and teal subtract some greens and whites, but the closer you shift from blue, MOST (not all) color blind variants will see a less "deep" blue, and it will be a soft blue or even a not-so-deep "purple/mauve/periwinkle" type of color.
What is not 'true' ? I'm saying so many things. You are saying so many things. I believe it was specifically:
"But as you can see in this picture i've just made, "teal" is quite close to white for them, i'm not sure they gonna be able to make a difference "at-a-glance"."
I was looking at your example and compared the actual color to the Color ("Colour" - apologies to non-US english folks) Blindness Organization's charts at the bottom of this page.
Your "teal" translating to the 2 examples you illustrate appears (using a color dropper measuring tool) to be a slightly lighter "gray" of the "gray" background you included which seemed less accurate compared to the Organization's example.
I suppose I'm comparing your "Teal" to their "pencil example". For that purpose, I "shifted" your "teal" closest to the color of the "2nd from left pencil" in their comparative "Pencil" example. If you notice, the color of an off-blue ("teal") shifts to a grayer tone of that color into the violet range, but it still retains more color than your picture example displays. Hey, no worries, it may have been in the saving of your color table in the file of your example.
That is all. No offense intended. Don't worry, I will not expound on the scrutiny of your example any further.
This really needs to be left now in the hands (and eyes) of Dev CCP Claymore and his ilk.
Bottom line: the "blues" (wavelengths) of the spectrum are the best bet for most color blind people when thinking of redesigning, if custom RGB sliders are not "doable".
The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique. |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:19:21 -
[2060] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote: I suppose I'm comparing your "Teal" to their "pencil example". For that purpose, I "shifted" your "teal" closest to the color of the "2nd from left pencil" in their comparative "Pencil" example. If you notice, the color of an off-blue ("teal") shifts to a grayer tone of that color into the violet range, but it still retains more color than your picture example displays. Hey, no worries, it may have been in the saving of your color table in the file of your example.
That is all. No offense intended. Don't worry, I will not expound on the scrutiny of your example any further.
This really needs to be left now in the hands (and eyes) of Dev CCP Claymore and his ilk.
Bottom line: the "blues" (wavelengths) of the spectrum are the best bet for most color blind people when thinking of redesigning, if custom RGB sliders are not "doable".
Yes, that's what i was saying as well, it depends a lot of the environment, in space (mostly black background) mixed with other brackets / color tags (corp/alliance/engagements), targetting boxes, etcetera, it might be to light to distinguish the difference for them. Same difference between my example and your pencils = environment matters.
I can't wait to have their feedbacks when it comes live on SiSI ! :) |
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Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:25:44 -
[2061] - Quote
Red and Blue have meaning in game... Any colour but these or shades of these, else this icon mess up becomes a standings mess up and where the hell it going to end..
The old icons may have had limitations but there was a degree of logic rather than this make it up as we go along approach...
I tell you what, lets scrap the existing game and start again, then plenty of work for the arty folx.... |
Mister Ripley
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 21:49:17 -
[2062] - Quote
Cruisers/Battlecruisers and Battleship icons should be swaped. |
Blue Harrier
203
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:05:10 -
[2063] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote: The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.
Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position.
I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space.
The overview icons donGÇÖt worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder).
ItGÇÖs the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing GÇÿin spaceGÇÖ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.
"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:39:31 -
[2064] - Quote
uhnboy ghost wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th. nice, the thicker stroke on icons sounds like a really big improvment, will logon to sisi and have a look EDIT: when u do the line thicker try to make it so the line under the triangel in destroyer/bc gets lower so the gap gets bigger = easyer to see that there is a line under the triangel
Not on SISI yet, Thursday or Friday by the time we get the changes onto SISI.
Will make sure we have a nice gap for them.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
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|
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:41:12 -
[2065] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th. What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon? Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan....
We are not planning to touch any ships icons at this time other than the NPC color and fill.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
|
Louanne Barros
Hole Violence Whole Squid
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:43:09 -
[2066] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote: Not on SISI yet, Thursday or Friday by the time we get the changes onto SISI.
Will make sure we have a nice gap for them.
Regarding the color customization options that already exist (choosing backgrounds for players vs. NPCs, changing which color is assigned to which tag, etc)...
Two things would really improve the situation, in my opinion:
1) A wider range of color options in the color-chooser for backgrounds and tags; it feels like half of them are teals and blues.
2) Addition of "NPC Pilot" to the list of colorizable things that can be given backgrounds in the overview settings.
Hopefully the former is semi-plausible.. I assume the latter is a more significant change to the game. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
449
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:43:23 -
[2067] - Quote
Blue Harrier wrote:Jared Tobin wrote: The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.
Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position. I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space. The overview icons donGÇÖt worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder). ItGÇÖs the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing GÇÿin spaceGÇÖ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.
Cannot quote this enough. It is going to take a LONG time before you are able to reinvent this wheel to everyone's satisfaction. Full customization (such that a player may opt into classic mode), or a classic mode outright is the preferred solution so we can actually play in the mean time.
Players are, and will remain angry or unable to play, until we can make informed decisions again; i.e. gameplay.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
|
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CCP Claymore
C C P C C P Alliance
173
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:46:41 -
[2068] - Quote
Blue Harrier wrote:Jared Tobin wrote: The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.
Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position. I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space. The overview icons donGÇÖt worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder). ItGÇÖs the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing GÇÿin spaceGÇÖ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me.
We are aiming for a solid fill, more than the subtle fill we released.
Quality Assurance Analyst
Team Game of Drones
|
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
263
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 22:58:18 -
[2069] - Quote
Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks |
Steijn
Quay Industries
954
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 23:04:52 -
[2070] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th. What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon? Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan.... We are not planning to touch any ships icons at this time other than the NPC color and fill.
are you saying that in 2 weeks you do the above, then it will be another 6 weeks before the next batch of changes, and then even longer for the next batch etc.? |
|
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
427
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 23:09:29 -
[2071] - Quote
Panterata wrote: As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
No they dont |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.23 23:25:08 -
[2072] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
They already answered to this question days ago.
Simple answer is : NO.
They stick to those icones, and improve them. |
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
317
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 00:16:59 -
[2073] - Quote
Quote:Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
While they and you have been waiting, many more thousands of people have been playing each day using the new icons.
Maybe some people are just slow to adapt.
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
|
OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
185
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 02:12:53 -
[2074] - Quote
Michael Ruckert wrote:Quote:Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks While they and you have been waiting, many more thousands of people have been playing each day using the new icons. Maybe some people are just slow to adapt.
Yeah, prolly visual improvements and ship skins will save this game. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
596
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 02:17:57 -
[2075] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Blue Harrier wrote:Jared Tobin wrote: The only reason one color blind friend of mine (who plays EVE - well, he's currently "paused from playing" until the icons are changed because he) was able to mission run and quickly note any "red" unfriendly NPCs was due to their cross-hair shapes, thicknesses, and the fact that they were completely different from other real player ships (brackets at the time). One thing was for sure: he certainly knew when a wreck was marked "for anyone to take/open/salvage". He also knew CONCORD immediately because they were thick white crosshairs, but with a central "hole" in the middle. And broadcasting/"tagging" items were a big help when fleeted. Currently I'm saddened he is remaining docked, just training until some changes are made to the icons. Sadly, that has had a quasi-deleterious effect on the rest of us not wishing to "play" in space without his company. I'm sure this scenario is not isolated nor unique.
Can I emphasise this paragraph (thank you for the description), as I am in the same position. I shall be very interested in the update when it is deployed on SiSi and where possible shall give as objective a comment as I can. I like the suggested changes to the line thickness but without a good solid red it may still be difficult to see the smaller icons when in space. The overview icons donGÇÖt worry me that much as the other descriptions fill in the blanks, and although I have a limited spectrum of colours I can usually get some sort of warning system set up with background colours (even if they would look completely odd to anyone looking over my shoulder). ItGÇÖs the fixed colour, tiny, thin and confusing GÇÿin spaceGÇÖ icons that floor me, the big, bold, red cross was simple and easy to see even for me. We are aiming for a solid fill, more than the subtle fill we released.
When can we expect a switch to go back to the old icons? You can make it part of your customizable icon option and call it something like classic icons....
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
596
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 02:22:07 -
[2076] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks They already answered to this question days ago. Simple answer is : NO. They stick to those icones, and improve them.
Down fanboi, down. CCP says lots of things then they change then or disregard what they previously said.. Such as we still working on cq, and 1000$ jeans are good. So when these icon changes prove not to be enough, the next logical step will be for a classic icon option.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
|
Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
212
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 02:56:27 -
[2077] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th.
There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.
Sooo, kinda like you did with the last batch of SiSi testing of the current icons...you ignored the massive amount of constructive feedback that was provided and plowed through with your own ideas, thinking most of what your customers were telling you was a lie.
As i'm sure it will come up in that thread...NPC's need a completely different shape.
CCP Claymore wrote:NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind Wait....making changes with colorblind people in mind....and deciding to USE A FLIPPING COLOR as the only differentiation? This sounds like a brilliant idea...again.
New Icon SiSi feedback thread that got wholly ignored!
An example of that a good ship icon set looks like.
|
Grezh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
35
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 03:49:42 -
[2078] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote: We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind
Wait....making changes with colorblind people in mind....and deciding to USE A FLIPPING COLOR as the only differentiation? This sounds like a brilliant idea...again.[/quote]
Even if you can't distinguish between any colour and everything looks like grey-scale the tint would still give it away. Making icons too complex defeats one of their major goals in being able to see at a glance what is on grid which is why they didn't add t2 or faction tags to the icons as it's needless clutter. |
MavnGoose
Valkyrie.
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 05:03:45 -
[2079] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th.
I do not believe you. You have ignored the majority of feedback already given. |
Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
94
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 05:39:51 -
[2080] - Quote
The current icons do not look modern, and they definately do not identify ships.
Examples:
1. Simple triangle icon = "modern" ....?
2. Simple triangle icon = is an icon that better matches a frigate over the old icon?
3. The simplistic upside down computer mouse icon is "modern" ?
4. The upside down computer mouse icon is well known in the world to represent.... industrial ships?
Perhaps NASA uses these icons?
As Spock would say.... highly illogical.
After everything I have read, the best "theories"I have seen in hundreds of posts is... this was done to make a "mark" on the game or busy work.
I bet if a poll were done not connected to Eve.... just a poll, with pictures of the icons, asking:
1. Are these icons "modern"... most would say no.
2. Tell me what this triangle icon represents....? The answer would not be any kind of spaceship real or in a game.
GL with this....
Recruitment is open for Renegade Armada PvP / Merc corp.
|
|
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Cataclysm Enterprises Pandemic Legion
225
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 06:40:18 -
[2081] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:CCP Claymore wrote:Hey folks, So we have been chatting about what we can get ready for the next release, Aegis, to try and improve the icon experience. Drones:
- We are going to reduce the number of icons for drones and change the icon so it is not similar to a ship icon.
90% scaling:
- We are going to increase the stroke thickness on icons to improve readability at 90% while retaining fidelity at 100%.
Player/NPC distinction:
- We are going to increase the fill on NPC ships and for friendly NPC ships add a blue tint.
We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better. We should have these up on SISI before the weekend and will be taking all your feedback on board to make these changes as effective as possible before Aegis drops on July 7th. There will not be any updates to Icons on TQ before July 7th. What about the mess with cruiser, dread and battleship icon? Dread looks still like a cruiser and battleships like half a titan.... We are not planning to touch any ships icons at this time other than the NPC color and fill.
is this at least still on the table? Because this issue was pointed out even before this set of icons was deployed, by a lot of people ion the original feedback thread. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
270
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 07:00:55 -
[2082] - Quote
Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore, probably you are colorblind and not see my post because I repost it for 3rd time
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES as ppl wishes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes as ppl wish? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2078 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
63
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 07:14:33 -
[2083] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore, probably you are colorblind and not see my post because I repost it for 3rd time
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES as ppl wishes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes as ppl wish? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2078 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
CCP Claymore wrote:Quote: are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?
The simple answer at the moment is no. Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5823796#post5824020 |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
270
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 07:19:11 -
[2084] - Quote
So if is like that - again we will not get what we want! |
John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 08:34:09 -
[2085] - Quote
Words about adapting to something stupid makes me laugh, really.
Just imagine you had a 100k$/year job and for some reason you've been "demoted" to like 40k$/year.
Now, you came to boss and asking - "WTF? Am I doing something wrong?"
He said "No, you're absolutely fine, Jon, but we had to restructurize our company, blablalba..."
So, will you dumblessly say "Okay.." and try to 'adapt' to new lifestyle or begin to search ways to get back what you had?
I think the answer is obvious - and this is what we are doing - trying to rescue EVE by so called 'whining', cancelling subs and (SUDDENLY) providing very constructive and accurate feedback with gifs and detailed explanations! Dam! Every gamedev is dreaming about such loyal volunteer&free software testers. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
86
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 10:03:16 -
[2086] - Quote
As much as i apreciate an CCP dev visiting this thread again (at long last) - the answers you try to deliver are bound to lower my hopes for CCP even more.... you are basically saying that you insist on polishing your turd. Good luck with that.
With such an attitude, even when you finally succeed in lessening the negative impact of these new icons for the people concerned, you will have lost a considerable number of them ... Would you care to give me your estimate how many new customers/players this exciting new icons will draw into the game in exchange?
Isnt it strange that I, a mere visitor of you ecosystem, seem to be more concerned about such losses than you, that actually makes his living from these people? How are your feelings when you look at the (additonal) plunge in Eve's gametraffic during these last weeks?
John Lawyer wrote: .................................. So, will you dumblessly say "Okay.." and try to 'adapt' to new lifestyle or .....................
Creatively misunderstanding your post, let me assure you that people like CCP Surge and Claymore most likey will have to adjust to just these kind of changes in the not too far future... same probably goes for the lead dev for letting all these "minor" things seemingly happen without any adequate measures of direction and control. |
Edward Olmops
DUST Expeditionary Team Good Sax
308
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 10:06:48 -
[2087] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
That is not very likely. I know NO ONE who actually wants the old icons back. Everything is so much better now. You can actually see what is happening without looking at your overview. And most of the icons are intuitive. Little person floating in space? -> frozen corpse I never had to look that up in some arcane databases or on EVE-Uni web pages - it was just there, I saw it and knew what it meant. Works like magic.
That does not mean that there isn't room for improvement, but please never ever seriously consider rolling back to the old icons! (and having it optional SOUNDS like a solution, but for the sanity of CCP's programmers, I would try to have not too many optional things) |
uhnboy ghost
retard hills
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 10:20:06 -
[2088] - Quote
John Lawyer wrote:Words about adapting to something stupid makes me laugh, really.
Just imagine you had a 100k$/year job and for some reason you've been "demoted" to like 40k$/year.
Now, you came to boss and asking - "WTF? Am I doing something wrong?"
He said "No, you're absolutely fine, Jon, but we had to restructurize our company, blablalba..."
So, will you dumblessly say "Okay.." and try to 'adapt' to new lifestyle or begin to search ways to get back what you had?
I think the answer is obvious - and this is what we are doing - trying to rescue EVE by so called 'whining', cancelling subs and (SUDDENLY) providing very constructive and accurate feedback with gifs and detailed explanations! Dam! Every gamedev is dreaming about such loyal volunteer&free software testers.
i can only speak for my self but if i loved that company ^^ (in this case eve online) i wholde first try to get my 100k/year ( old icons) back = 6 post about how i cant see the icons doto my bad eyes and havent logged on to eve for 22 days now, do i was on sisi yesterday ) and telling the company what the problem is.
then the company say NO!! u cant have the 100k/year back
then i have 2 options: 1. well, nice working (playing) whit u, now F off im finding a jobb thats gives me 100k/year 2. but sence i love the company (eve) and really want to stay i will try to get maybe 70-80k/year by making suggestions etc and if thats fails then option 1 is the only option ____________________________________
in plain text = i LOVE eve online i cant play whit the new icons, doto my bad eyes ccp say they never coming back, the new icons will never be as good as the old ones was BUT ccp is trying to change them so i can maybe play again so ofc i will give them input on them if we still dont have a set of icons thats works for all of us after all the changes then im out
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
271
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 11:38:14 -
[2089] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks That is not very likely. I know NO ONE who actually wants the old icons back. ...... That does not mean that there isn't room for improvement, but please never ever seriously consider rolling back to the old icons! (and having it optional SOUNDS like a solution, but for the sanity of CCP's programmers, I would try to have not too many optional things)
I'm very tired to explain to everyone
Edward start from page 1 and you will see how many ppl "don't" want the old icons or at least to have a options to use them |
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
73
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 12:02:45 -
[2090] - Quote
CCP, don't be afraid to bring the old icons back or to add an option to use old icons.
Us players aready realised that the design department has been turning out new icons just to justify their salary (starting with the damage control icon). No need to hide it from us.
Maybe you're hiding it from CCP Seagull? She'll find out sooner or later you know =P
Just admit you were wrong, add an option to use old icons, and tell the design department to go back to redrawing caldari ships. |
|
UFO Beta
The Screamers Society
1
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 12:30:25 -
[2091] - Quote
Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore, probably you are colorblind and not see my post because I repost it for 3rd time
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES as ppl wishes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes as ppl wish? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! moremore ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
P.S. Also, please inform to the shareholders of the CCP, much of the community views the situation with a "new overview" is deliberate sabotage by the game designers. I freeze 4 of subscription until they return the "old overview". |
DexterShark
The Night Watchmen The Bastion
79
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 12:48:13 -
[2092] - Quote
As the saying goes; "you can't polish a turd" - But I guess we are going to have to watch CCP double down and try to do exactly that for the next few months. So, good luck with that!
You are trying to fix a problem that never existed - the original brackets were fine - and now a fundamental part of the game is, it seems, irreparably broken.
This is just getting embarrassing for all involved.
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
272
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Posted - 2015.06.24 13:56:27 -
[2093] - Quote
So CCP Claymore or anyone else,
Do you need anymore pages and feedback as you can see that MAJORITY of the ppl want old icons back or at least to have an options to use them?? |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
600
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 13:58:44 -
[2094] - Quote
Edward Olmops wrote:Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks That is not very likely. I know NO ONE who actually wants the old icons back. Everything is so much better now. You can actually see what is happening without looking at your overview. And most of the icons are intuitive. Little person floating in space? -> frozen corpse I never had to look that up in some arcane databases or on EVE-Uni web pages - it was just there, I saw it and knew what it meant. Works like magic. That does not mean that there isn't room for improvement, but please never ever seriously consider rolling back to the old icons! (and having it optional SOUNDS like a solution, but for the sanity of CCP's programmers, I would try to have not too many optional things)
Pls. Stop trolling. We dont have 90+ pages because no one wants the old icons back. all of my alliance mates think the new icons are shyte and want the old ones back. The only exception is the little corpse which people think is funny. But there you go - close to hundred players over approximately 10 different corps, want the old icons back, and yes I know all of them and have discussed this very issue with them frequently. Not a day goes by without someone saying f-- CCP for messing with the icons. Why are people upset? Because for many they are not intuitive and you cant see what is happening from your overview. Of course its worse for older folk and/or those with poorer eyesight who play this game and people with smaller monitors.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Sykaotic
Renegade Armada.
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 16:18:09 -
[2095] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:CCP, don't be afraid to bring the old icons back or to add an option to use old icons.
Perhaps you should try typing using modern symbols instead of this old fashioned caveman text or maybe binary code
Recruitment is open for Renegade Armada PvP / Merc corp.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
283
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 16:48:39 -
[2096] - Quote
Sykaotic wrote:Marian Devers wrote:CCP, don't be afraid to bring the old icons back or to add an option to use old icons. Perhaps you should try typing using modern symbols instead of this old fashioned caveman text or maybe binary code
Voice of CCP - we will implement modern symbols in the next patch and you will be enforced to convene....if you like it or not! |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
72
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 17:02:39 -
[2097] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Voice of CCP - we will implement modern symbols in the next patch and you will be enforced to convene....if you like it or not! That's the issue you seem to still not understand, you and your fellows. We and CCP do not care about your subjective points. Like or Dislike won't make the thing change or getting better. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
283
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 17:13:34 -
[2098] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:Voice of CCP - we will implement modern symbols in the next patch and you will be enforced to convene....if you like it or not! That's the issue you seem to still not understand, you and your fellows. We and CCP do not care about your subjective points. Like or Dislike won't make the thing change or getting better.
Exactly...that is pathetic
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Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
608
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 19:02:34 -
[2099] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:Voice of CCP - we will implement modern symbols in the next patch and you will be enforced to convene....if you like it or not! That's the issue you seem to still not understand, you and your fellows. We and CCP do not care about your subjective points. Like or Dislike won't make the thing change or getting better.
Well fanboi, when its just you and CCP left circle jerking each other, make sure you ask ccp to thank you for being their white knight, cause you dont get any other prize for being the last person in a game before they turn out the lights, cause that's where that type of thinking leads.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 20:27:40 -
[2100] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Sykaotic wrote:Marian Devers wrote:CCP, don't be afraid to bring the old icons back or to add an option to use old icons. Perhaps you should try typing using modern symbols instead of this old fashioned caveman text or maybe binary code Voice of CCP - we will implement modern symbols in the next patch and you will be enforced to convene....if you like it or not!
Unfortunately, I think getting them to make progress in making the new icons better is the best we're going to see. These kinds of decisions have me looking at other games, not because I necessarily want to, but because if this 'decision making' is going to continue, then they'll chase off the remaining players and I'd rather have something I've considered the next best thing.
But, the changes CCP Claymore has presented will help a bit, and I don't want to discourage that when the only alternative CCP is offering is the terrible way things are now.
As for the color-blind chart, Jared, thanks for that! It's nice to be able to 'step in someone else's shoes' a little bit that way. |
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Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
180
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 20:41:12 -
[2101] - Quote
To veer off into interesting territory for me, then to come back to the main subject:
There's a bit of an 'opposite' color vision defect that only women have, as far as we know. Humans have 'trichromatic' vision, or we can see and mix red, green and blue wavelengths of light to form our vision picture. All of the genes for this are on the X chromosome, which is why men, with an XY pair, are more subject to color blindness than women, with their XX genes. If the color vision genes on the X chromosome are faulty, men don't have a 'backup' on the Y side. Women do, however, because of the 2nd X.
But, if a woman has a faulty color vision gene on one X chromosome, but it's still functioning enough to give instructions on color vision, then what can happen is that she can see in a combination of 4 colors, instead of 3 like most people. So if you're looking at a solid red object that looks uniformly red to you, she may see several shades of red on that object because she has the ability to perceive color in greater detail. It's possible, but difficult to tell who has this ability.
But going back to the icons/color subject, I guess I'll be glad to see what is offered on SiSi. I'm just glad CCP doesn't have to make their income by selling milk. Whoever forced the issue of staying with the current icon iteration might get the idea of coloring all the milk a shade of rotten green. We'd have to fight just to get it more to a mint green, but would have to give up on white milk. |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
455
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 20:54:55 -
[2102] - Quote
The brilliance of the previous icon set was, it didn't matter HOW many colors you could see or couldn't see, it was plainly obvious what everything was by shape and shade alone.
You could very realistically have played EvE in black and white before the icon changes, and suffered no ill effects. A great case of less is more, and why the current system is a case of more is less.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
56
|
Posted - 2015.06.24 22:48:48 -
[2103] - Quote
to Joia's post. Please, correct me, If I'm wrong - a colour vision defect is different for different people. If so, we have even more reasons to make UI customizable (including icon's colour AND themes setup - remember RGB sliders).
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Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 00:43:10 -
[2104] - Quote
Mike Azariah wrote:I have been active in the split off thread in regards to the icons as the main general thread is too noisy to make any decent headway in. But here I am.
Yes, the 90% issue needs a fix fast as does the colour blind. Yes I like the logic of the new sets and think it is more in the details of the implemntation that in the change itself.
A lot of the reaction is from people who have almsot automated their responses over the years to tge old ways and object to being asked to learn a new set. IF it is visible (90% and colour) and if it has an internal logic then I am ok with the change
Oh and drones need to look less like ships
GÇïm
So in this post you talk about the icons being flawed but you chalk everyone else's negative response as being bitter and lazy.... It sounds like you are confused as to whom you are supposed to be representing. Someone slap a CCP sticker on his forehead
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Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
318
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 02:05:30 -
[2105] - Quote
Panterata wrote:So CCP Claymore or anyone else,
Do you need anymore pages and feedback as you can see that MAJORITY of the ppl want old icons back or at least to have an options to use them??
Last I saw, MAJORITY of people were online playing EVE with new icons.
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
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Vila eNorvic
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 02:11:42 -
[2106] - Quote
Michael Ruckert wrote:Panterata wrote:So CCP Claymore or anyone else,
Do you need anymore pages and feedback as you can see that MAJORITY of the ppl want old icons back or at least to have an options to use them?? Last I saw, MAJORITY of people were online playing EVE with new icons. So . . . . . ? |
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
182
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 02:50:17 -
[2107] - Quote
John Lawyer wrote:to Joia's post. Please, correct me, If I'm wrong - a colour vision defect is different for different people. If so, we have even more reasons to make UI customizable (including icon's colour AND themes setup - remember RGB sliders).
Yes, the variety of color blind issues is pretty wide, so having a customizable UI would really be needed unless CCP has decided that they don't need those people to sub.
For Michael Ruckert, Quote:Last I saw, MAJORITY of people were online playing EVE with new icons.
People aren't going to run away at first. much of the subscriber/player base will try their best to work with change, but over time, unanswered issues will erode to the point of the game not having enough subscribers to go on. But CCP Claymore has replied with the results of some meetings at least, and we'll see how things look on SiSi. It'd be very nice if screenshots appear in a dev blog, btw, thanks! |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 06:07:48 -
[2108] - Quote
Joia Crenca wrote:People aren't going to run away at first. much of the subscriber/player base will try their best to work with change, but over time, unanswered issues will erode to the point of the game not having enough subscribers to go on. But CCP Claymore has replied with the results of some meetings at least, and we'll see how things look on SiSi. It'd be very nice if screenshots appear in a dev blog, btw, thanks!
but over time, answered valid issues will make people get used to, notice that they actually see a more detailed grid, and live with it perfectly*, haters will quit Eve Online, and won't be missed.* |
Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
267
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 06:48:57 -
[2109] - Quote
Michael Ruckert wrote:Last I saw, MAJORITY of people were online playing EVE with new icons. Just because people are online "playing EVE" doesn't necessarily mean they are "playing EVE with new icons".
There are plenty of other aspects of EVE that can be handled without the need of the overview, or even undocking for that matter - but require logging into EVE.
In-station: Economics (market placement, restocking manufactured production, pricing de/re-evaluation, financial profitability assessment, etc) Science/Industry: (manufacturing, researching, copying, blueprint swapping and handling, T2/reverse engineering, etc) POS Management: (checking, fueling, using, refining, harvesting, hauling, swapping BPOs/BPCs between divisions in labs and arrays, fuel manufacturing, etc) Planetary Interaction: (colonization, setup, scanning, re-pinning, restarting all processing, changing processing inputs/outputs, reconfiguring interactions and layouts, routings, etc) Corporation/Alliance Management. ...yeah: For those of us that have taken on more responsibility than other players, sometimes even more of the "boring stuff" of responsibility falls on us: That can take up logged on time as well: personal mail, corp mail, alliance mail, payroll/assignments, adverts, wallet division balancing (or as I call it: "doin' the books", which for my particular corporation includes various payroll issues, etc).
...and lest we not forget the simple In-Game Communications that requires actually logging in, or, in your words: "playing EVE".
Sadly, what I have noticed is that less people, not only in my corporation, but in other peoples' corporations (in and outside of my alliance) are all having a noticeable decrease in player activity (or the longevity in which they remain online), which especially affects multi-player involvement with exploration, mission-running or any other interaction with NPCs (or other players) that may require the overview for critical/intensive usage. |
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
93
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 07:03:47 -
[2110] - Quote
Well, thats what i call arrogant and short-sighted:
Cleanse Serce wrote:..................... but over time, answered valid issues will make people get used to, notice that they actually see a more detailed grid, and live with it perfectly*, haters will quit Eve Online, and won't be missed.* ......but you probably fit well with the CCP staff in charge Cleanse.
The people you call "haters" and gloat over ther good riddance - mind to take a look at them? Many of those helped to pay CCP's bills for many years and invested largely in this game (be it in terms of money or time or both). Many of them couldnt be farther from your "professional complainers" and forum trolls..... The eve universe is loosing dearly, when those respected friends and enemies are forced out.
Forced out by sub par development and rash changes to the UI, that for so many years allowed them to participate here.
John Lawyer wrote:to Joia's post. Please, correct me, If I'm wrong - a colour vision defect is different for different people. If so, we have even more reasons to make UI customizable (including icon's colour AND themes setup - remember RGB sliders).
And thats exactly the level where the old Icons worked perfectly - important differences were transported through more than one channnel (shape AND color). No matter what kind of visual impairment you had, you never could confuse an empty white bracket with a red cross. And such clear distinctions also helped reaction times and instant sitiuational assesment of non vision impaired players. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to anticipate that the reduction of this grown funtionality will create frustration with part of the players. (and as we could learn in this thread exactly that was predicted by some CSM member)
yeah, good riddance with part of your loyal supporters and customers - for what gain ever ....
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Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 07:35:47 -
[2111] - Quote
Color blind issues will be answered, scaling issues will be answered. What else do you want ? Going back ? You already know CCP won't go back, so why keep arguing about that ? Quit playing or deal with it, but just stop saying you want them back, that's annoying / that's not making things goin further / we already know that. All your arguments about less subsciptions are not working and don't seem to 'fear' CCP whatsoever, so just quit with it move forward. :) I will for my part.
I can't wait to see how colorblind will respond to the changes comin on SiSi soon. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
294
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 08:15:47 -
[2112] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Color blind issues will be answered, scaling issues will be answered. What else do you want ? Going back ? You already know CCP won't go back, so why keep arguing about that ? Quit playing or deal with it, but just stop saying you want them back, that's annoying / that's not making things goin further / we already know that. All your arguments about less subsciptions are not working and don't seem to 'fear' CCP whatsoever, so just quit with it move forward. :) I will for my part. I can't wait to see how colorblind will respond to the changes comin on SiSi soon.
haha dear...you hear and read only what you want..like CCP
If you only start reading at the beginning of this thread....
What else do you want ? - to use the old icons together with new ones
I will repeat my self like a idiot especially for you to UNDERSTAND for 100 time
PVP/PVE players DO NOT cares about new icons like station icons, belts icons, pos modules icons, star icons, gate icons etc etc. PVP/PVE players cares ONLY for the ships icons - to be the same like the old ones for all ship classes!! |
John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
57
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 08:34:42 -
[2113] - Quote
I suppose, if a person who gives a feedback is actually playing EVE, which means he/she pays for sub (with $ or with time) and generate content (by killing or dying or messing with market goods). In other words - such people are valuable asset for whole EVE-Online project (because MMO without people is dead MMO). So, to save the day (cover everyone's needs) it is logical to give users an option to chooice (customization tools, check box at least). What do you say, Cleanse, is this the best option for all community and CCP itself? (because, I still did not understood why not, srsly) |
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
76
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 08:49:03 -
[2114] - Quote
John Lawyer wrote:I suppose, if a person who gives a feedback is actually playing EVE, which means he/she pays for sub (with $ or with time) and generate content (by killing or dying or messing with market goods). In other words - such people are valuable asset for whole EVE-Online project (because MMO without people is dead MMO). So, to save the day (cover everyone's needs) it is logical to give users an option to chooice (customization tools, check box at least). What do you say, Cleanse, is this the best option for all community and CCP itself? (because, I still did not understood why not, srsly)
Asking for a customization, i have nothing against that. Asking for an option to roll back, i don't like that. Why ? As simple as going backward is not something i want for Eve Online and see CCP doing this.
I wish as well that CCP could give us a full mod-able UI, but that would also put barriers between old-set players with their own UI, Alliance with their own UI, etcetera, i think that it would split the community more than everything else.
I wish that CCP did not take us away the RGB sliders from the UI months ago, specially with those glowing effect, it could've been awsome to chose theiur colors. But i've dealt with it, and i moved on. I'm still hopping that they will someday give it back.
Best option now is to adapt from those new icones, and help enhancing them AS THEY ARE, because we all know now that they (CCP) WILL NOT roll back or give any customizable options at all. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
294
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 08:57:58 -
[2115] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Best option now is to adapt from those new icones, and help enhancing them AS THEY ARE, because we all know now that they (CCP) WILL NOT roll back or give any customizable options at all.
adapt - this word is a little bit silly. If you are a boy and force you to become a girl are you going to adapt?!
Enhancing - yes..enhance new icons like old one |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
254
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 12:23:27 -
[2116] - Quote
I feel I need to put this into perspective, after reading carefully through the graph at eve offline, and various wikipedia articles. Incarna, the most cursed patch in eve history, knocked the player count from 56k(an unusual peak in itself, 4k higher then the months around), to 51k, a month later, that's 8% of the playerbase, if we count in an extreme way.
A more balanced way would be to ignore the unusual top on june 19th, two days before Incarna release, and say, compare the 53k average peaks on may, to the 50k average in july, which is closer to 5% of the player base
In contrast, last week's peak was the lowest one since 2007, that I find at 33k, down from 39k a month before. long term data isnt in yet, but: If i'm reading this right, that's a drop of 7k players, and at 15% of the player base. And the down curve is still going.
Making Carnyx, do significantly MORE DAMAGE THAN INCARNA. On top of that, the graph since 2014 does NOT look good, but I'll need to do more research before I'm willing to guess why that is.
But the bottom line is, at incarna, players complained their ****** off. Then they staged a protest and shot up a statue. At Carnyx, it looks like people just said "**** this, I quit"
Player login data thanks to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Please someone tell me this is wrong.(and if so, why/how) |
John Lawyer
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
61
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 12:42:32 -
[2117] - Quote
to Cleanse: Thanks, I got your point, but still have some of your statements which are not clear for me.
[Correction]: I did not mentioned complete rolling back - old and new variants should have its apropriate places (check Audio Settings as an example).
[Clarification]: By term "best option" I mean solution that satisfies everyone's needs (no 'lose' party - only 'win-win'). Your statement looks like - "its best because we know (who exactly and by which way that knowledge is available?) that CCP wouldn't change it". And it does not cover unsatisfied PVP'ers. Also, I really "don't know" this, as you state, because I ground my expectations on my past positive experience with similar cases (remember 'black screen of death", gunz avatars etc... - CCP fixed them after users' feedback)
Sorry, but in current state your words sounds quite illogical for me. But I would really appreciate if you'll clarify what do you mean by term "best option" then.
Not trolling, just want to make things as much clear as possible.
[Suggestion]: Maybe there is a very important reason why this new stuff was implemented. Maybe 90% of users aren't right when spkeaking about broken icon set. If so, please, give us an answer - why it is better? I strongly believe that well-grounded and logical explanation will beat all this mess in thread. But for now all we can see is the sarcastic and unrespectful blog (you know what I mean). All in all, we dont have to love each other - but we can try to cooperate with each other. We (users) have Blood, you (CCP) have Environment - lets do this like we did with "black screen of death" at least ;) |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
255
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 12:53:13 -
[2118] - Quote
Putting this in a seperate post, to not distract from the point of the other post. Personally, I have been feeling like eve hasn't had a lot of NEW stuff since that 2014 peak. It's all rehash after rebalance, after ajustments. after asset update, which I'm honestly getting very tired of.
Reading through the patch notes on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expansions_of_Eve_Online, the old expansions mostly had new stuff, and very little messing with pre-existing stuff.
I just cant look forward to patches that have features like "we replaced parts of the UI" I dread those patches, and then look to what new stuff there is.. and.. um.. not much else to focus on. And I cant look forward to patches when there are this many of them, my focus on patches, in the new 6 week release schedule has changed from excitement, to trying to keep track of it all.
It's rather hard to build up hype for what's upcoming, and I emphasise: CCP has stopped TRYING to build up hype for expansions. There used to be a lot of news about exciting things we should look forward to. Where did that go? Getting hard to market "expansions" when there are this many of them isnt it? And with no marketing, players are surprised by patches, rather than looking forward to them.
Seriously I have lost count of the times I have logged on, to see everyone and their dog, go "oh, WTF? is it patch day now?"
CCP, please stop THAT approach. bring back the days where we had a clear advance notice of a patch day(other than just being told to mark a spot every 6 weeks on the calendar) And the days of "exciting things to come" news. I remember my friends talking about what they wanted to do with the stratios, for WEEKS, before they actually got their hands on it.
In contrast, I HAD TO TELL PEOPLE THAT THERE WERE NOW T3 DESTROYERS. that was TWO WEEKS ago. THEY(plural) were SURPRISED. Please notice the massive missed potential for building up hype and excitement. That's a huge factor in keeping people playing.
Sorry for the caps section, but I'm not joking, it's happened several times now that I need to explain to people that something cool came in a recent patch. I thought people were news blind or something, but then I thought to myself, I'm not very clear on what's "coming soon", and I only knew of a few of those things because I read patch notes. You used to have huge ads for "cool stuff coming soon" Now I need to search for it. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
624
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 13:39:43 -
[2119] - Quote
Eraza wrote:I feel I need to put this into perspective, after reading carefully through the graph at eve offline, and various wikipedia articles. Incarna, the most cursed patch in eve history, knocked the player count from 56k(an unusual peak in itself, 4k higher then the months around), to 51k, a month later, that's 8% of the playerbase, if we count in an extreme way. A more balanced way would be to ignore the unusual top on june 19th, two days before Incarna release, and say, compare the 53k average peaks on may, to the 50k average in july, which is closer to 5% of the player base In contrast, last week's peak was the lowest one since 2007, that I find at 33k, down from 39k a month before. long term data isnt in yet, but: If i'm reading this right, that's a drop of 7k players, and at 15% of the player base. And the down curve is still going. Making Carnyx, do significantly MORE DAMAGE THAN INCARNA. On top of that, the graph since 2014 does NOT look good, but I'll need to do more research before I'm willing to guess why that is. But the bottom line is, at incarna, players complained their ****** off. Then they staged a protest and shot up a statue. At Carnyx, it looks like people just said "**** this, I quit" Player login data thanks to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Please someone tell me this is wrong.(and if so, why/how)
It makes more sense that Carnyx is a worse update then Incarna. I forget if Incarna had a kill switch for captains quarters from launch or it was added later, regardless, once the switch was added you could ignore CQ entirely. Moreover, CQ and the $1000 jeans didnt impact actual game play, so once you were undocked you could basically forget about Incarna entirely. With Carnyx CCP took a core mechanism that is in everybody's face all the time and broke it badly. There is no kill switch at the present for icons, so you cant ignore CCP's broken content. If Carnyx is so bad, why is it that People arent shooting the monument? Well times have changed and I think today there is just a lot more CCP fatigue. I get the feeling that People just don't feel that CCP is responsive to the desires of the core player base anymore. So People feel disaffected and are just voting with their feet. This has been a long time coming as it looks like numbers have been steadily dropping since 2011. CCP has been slowly driving its core away in an effort to make Eve more accessible and friendly for "new players" who just dont appear to be showing up - at least in numbers to offset the subscriptions that they are losing.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
255
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 14:03:23 -
[2120] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:It makes more sense that Carnyx is a worse update then Incarna. I forget if Incarna had a kill switch for captains quarters from launch or it was added later, regardless, once the switch was added you could ignore CQ entirely. Moreover, CQ and the 1000 jeans didnt impact actual game play, so once you were undocked you could basically forget about Incarna entirely. With Carnyx CCP took a core mechanism that is in everybody's face all the time and broke it badly. There is no kill switch at the present for icons, so you cant ignore CCP's broken content. If Carnyx is so bad, why is it that People arent shooting the monument? Well I think there is CCP fatigue. I get the feeling that People just don't feel that CCP is responsive to the desires of the core player base anymore. This has been a long time coming as it looks like numbers have been steadily dropping since 2011. Times have changed, CCP has been slowly driving its core away in an effort to make Eve more accessible and friendly for "new players" who just dont appear to be showing up - at least in numbers to offset the subscriptions that they are losing. So People feel disaffected and are just voting with their feet. This is pretty much what I feel. I wonder which group is bigger, people that found an ad, and tried eve, or people that got pulled into eve by someone that was already playing? well, CCP has some clue on that, but we can only guess.
The drop started in 2014 actually, February 9th 2014 was a peak(57123), and from there there has been steady decline. In 2014 there was also a very sharp drop in the amount of communication CCP had with the playerbase. That was the last ingame event with any actual actors present wasnt it? That was also when the hype news stopped. That was also when some of the top management structute inside CCP changed wasn't it?
And yeah, incarna CQ was forced for a while, and then they re-added the ability to let people ship-spin. But that was graphics, in station, and didn't actually break core gameplay. I am getting used to the new icons slowly, but they are still inferior to the old in many ways, and I note, I would have been happy to learn the new at my own pace, had this been an OPTION, like the map. In particular, I don't want to PVP with the new icons, and competition, in exploration, is only really visible once yellow wrecks appear, that is VERY annoying.
I remember a time when I reccomended CCP as one of the best companies in gaming, due to the amount of communication with the playerbase. I remember being proud to be an eve player back in 2003, when I was at a local tour they were holding, when they told us, that noone could work at CCP unless they were actively playing the game in question.
I'm sad to feel that this time has passed, and we are now facing another corporate brick wall.
CCP, If it's one thing you need to learn from this, its this: You didn't GET big by being a corporate brick wall that didn't communicate with customers. Why do you think you will stay big if you just stop communicating suddenly, with a playerbase that's used to being treated like a friend, rather than just a wallet? |
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
98
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 15:50:09 -
[2121] - Quote
Eraza wrote:I feel I need to put this into perspective, after reading carefully through the graph at eve offline, and various wikipedia articles. Incarna, the most cursed patch in eve history, knocked the player count from 56k(an unusual peak in itself, 4k higher then the months around), to 51k, a month later, that's 8% of the playerbase, if we count in an extreme way. A more balanced way would be to ignore the unusual top on june 19th, two days before Incarna release, and say, compare the 53k average peaks on may, to the 50k average in july, which is closer to 5% of the player base In contrast, last week's peak was the lowest one since 2007, that I find at 33k, down from 39k a month before. long term data isnt in yet, but: If i'm reading this right, that's a drop of 7k players, and at 15% of the player base. And the down curve is still going. Making Carnyx, do significantly MORE DAMAGE THAN INCARNA. On top of that, the graph since 2014 does NOT look good, but I'll need to do more research before I'm willing to guess why that is. But the bottom line is, at incarna, players complained their ****** off. Then they staged a protest and shot up a statue. At Carnyx, it looks like people just said "**** this, I quit" Player login data thanks to http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Please someone tell me this is wrong.(and if so, why/how)
Sadly, there is no one who can tell you that - cause you got it all right. I came to similar findings somewhere in the middle of this thread. Even considering the general downward trend for the last half a year you can clearly see an acceleration of the losses for those last weeks since the Carnyx expansion.
That said I feel double bitter when i read how "fellow-players" tell others to get lost and quit. ... same goes for the arrogance and ignorance from CCP staff.
Of course all the fanbois in this thread are absolutely correct when they now say, that a correlation doesnt prove a connection between two variables - but once you come out of the ivory tower and step into business, there is a limit of how long you can lie to yourself.
I at least really belief that sub par "expansions" effect player numbers.
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Circumstantial Evidence
198
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 17:52:33 -
[2122] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:It makes more sense that Carnyx is a worse update then Incarna. [...] Moreover, CQ and the $1000 jeans didnt impact actual game play, so once you were undocked you could basically forget about Incarna entirely. A fair point, one affects gameplay more than the other. Incarna was a lot of fearmongering about macro-transactions and gold ammo. It threatened to unbalance gameplay. But if you're going to write about game-affecting changes, there's a "worse" change that collected more irritation than this one. It affected every player, even the ones that never undock. And now it's faded into the background and hardly mentioned: Unified Inventory. My prediction: given an equal amount of time, these overview icon changes will fade in their "infamy," just like the Unified Inventory overhaul has.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
305
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 18:00:26 -
[2123] - Quote
Btw against with everything else on who was the idea to change the names of the micro warp drives? What was the idea?
It was easy before - 1MN for frigates/ceptors, 10MN for C/BC etc etc
Now...can you make another tutorial for them which type for which class of ships is?! .... or you will make a special patch for them?! |
Circumstantial Evidence
198
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 18:36:32 -
[2124] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Btw against with everything else on who was the idea to change the names of the micro warp drives? What was the idea? It was easy before - 1MN for frigates/ceptors, 10MN for C/BC etc etc But, it wasn't easy... searching for "1MN" got you afterburners, as well. The new logic is fairly simple: the number "5" is a MWD prefix. They give you a 5x speed boost Feature announce thread. |
Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
2
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 19:03:33 -
[2125] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Panterata wrote:Btw against with everything else on who was the idea to change the names of the micro warp drives? What was the idea? It was easy before - 1MN for frigates/ceptors, 10MN for C/BC etc etc But, it wasn't easy... searching for "1MN" got you afterburners, as well. The new logic is fairly simple: the number "5" is a MWD prefix. They give you a 5x speed boost Feature announce thread.
Uuum, surely if abs and mwbs had remained unchanged, this would encourage the players to learn the difference between the two types of prop mods.. Thereby enhancing their skill...
Sry Circumstantial Evidence... but I hope you see how bemusing it is on the apparent ever changing stance of DEVs depending on the topic, or put another way, how they justify change for changes sake..
BTW, why was the Damage Control Icon changed, anyone know...?? It was like losing an old friend... |
Circumstantial Evidence
202
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 19:36:30 -
[2126] - Quote
Joe Gormley wrote:Uuum, surely if abs and mwbs had remained unchanged, this would encourage the players to learn the difference between the two types of prop mods.. Thereby enhancing their skill... I see what you did there Joe Gormley wrote:BTW, why was the Damage Control Icon changed, anyone know...?? It was like losing an old friend... That change was pretty low key, icon refreshes generally go through without controversy. For example, covert cyno vs regular; and hull repair vs armor. I think this is the first thread mentioning it.
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 19:51:42 -
[2127] - Quote
Panterata wrote:adapt - this word is a little bit silly. If you are a boy and someone force you to become a girl are you going to adapt?!
Enhancing - yes..enhance new icons like old one
Lol, Drive your Studebaker to the Video Game store and pick up a Coleco Vision console, and hook it up to your vintage Citizen TV set...might have to disconnect the rabbit ears...Then you can relive the 'Pong' and 'Space Invaders' glory days.
Old Icons = Past...New Icons = Future.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
306
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:07:15 -
[2128] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Panterata wrote:adapt - this word is a little bit silly. If you are a boy and someone force you to become a girl are you going to adapt?!
Enhancing - yes..enhance new icons like old one Lol, Drive your Studebaker to the retro Video Game store or pawn shop and pick up a Coleco Vision console, and hook it up to your vintage Citizen TV set...might have to disconnect the rabbit ears...Then you can relive the 'Pong' and 'Space Invaders' glory days. It doesn't have a soundtrack, so just throw a Neil Sedaka 45 on the record player. Old Icons = Past...New Icons = Future.
Rio Bravo....undock from the station and go play tetris! This game is not for you
For you
Past = Eve ...Future = Tetris |
Darkblad
Hilf Dir selbst in EVE
1066
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:13:30 -
[2129] - Quote
CCP Claymore wrote:Not on SISI yet, Thursday or Friday by the time we get the changes onto SISI.
Will make sure we have a nice gap for them.
Sisi build 909753 just got deployed with this change to no hostile brackets.
Shot the Overview, Dark Matther theme, no transparency and window blur off, window not pinned. UI Scale @ 100% Loors kind of teal to me. I wonder how this will blend with limited engagements.
EVE Infolinks GÇó Mining Guide GÇó Missions
(EN & DE)
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:14:57 -
[2130] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Rio Bravo....undock from the station and go play tetris! This game is not for you
For you
Past = Eve ...Future = Tetris
But how will I adapt to all those falling pieces? They are all different shapes? Also, they fall faster the farther I go. Besides, I want the new Tetris to be like the old Commodore 64 version! If they don't change it back I will unsub my Xbox account, which has been losing subscriptions for a long time, thanks to all the complexity.
Give us back the old tetris, at least the gameboy versions graphics...My eyes bleed when I play, and my brain makes me crap my pants when the long L shaped pieces start falling.
Sigh...maybe I should just stick with EvE and the awsome new icons that make life simpler.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
306
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:18:36 -
[2131] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Panterata wrote:Rio Bravo....undock from the station and go play tetris! This game is not for you
For you
Past = Eve ...Future = Tetris But how will I adapt to all those falling pieces? They are all different shapes? Is it necessary they be all different colors??? Also, they fall faster the farther I go. Besides, I want the new Tetris to be like the old Commodore 64 version! If they don't change it back I will unsub my Xbox account, which has been losing subscriptions for a long time, thanks to all the complexity. Give us back the old tetris, at least the gameboy versions graphics...My eyes bleed when I play, and my brain makes me crap my pants when the long L shaped pieces start falling. Sigh...maybe I should just stick with EvE and the awsome new icons that make life simpler.
Just admin that you are CCP alt! (CCP Claymore/ Surge is that you?) |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:20:39 -
[2132] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Just admin that you are CCP alt! (CCP Claymore/ Surge is that you?)
My hauler alt is The Mittani, and my other cyno alt is Chribba.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
306
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:26:08 -
[2133] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Panterata wrote:Just admin that you are CCP alt! (CCP Claymore/ Surge is that you?) My hauler alt is The Mittani, and my other cyno alt is Chribba.
https://zkillboard.com/character/443630591/
This make sense. You are a station player. That's why you like new icons
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
67
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:32:53 -
[2134] - Quote
Panterata wrote:https://zkillboard.com/character/443630591/ This make sense. You are a station player. That's why you like new icons
I like the new station services ones too, lol.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 20:58:05 -
[2135] - Quote
Panterata wrote:CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons? Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
^^^ This for the love of all that's good this..!! ^^
Not gonna say please as I'm 99.99999999999999999999% sure the new icons are here to stay, forcing a small number of us out of the game probably forever. :( |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
68
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 21:03:40 -
[2136] - Quote
Alea wrote:Not gonna say please as I'm 99.99999999999999999999% sure the new icons are here to stay, forcing a small number of us out of the game probably forever. :(
The dev blog says they are going to make the icons a customizable thing from the overview menu. So you can still stand your friends up, forget your wifes birthday, or show up late for work, because of your EvE addiction.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
97
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 21:04:19 -
[2137] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks
No answer will be given as they most likely don't care about the few of us who can't play with the icon change, sure they'll lose a few bux but not enough to make them think about spending a few minutes to include the old icon set as an option in a future patch. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 21:06:49 -
[2138] - Quote
Cleanse Serce wrote:Panterata wrote:Copy - Paste
CCP Claymore
So any chance to use old ships and npc icons for ALL SHIPS CLASSES? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
Or to customize them as per old one for all ships classes? - shiny squares and shiny red crosses
As you can see most of the ppl wants them. Pls reply
Why don't you give us a straight answer for the most important questions ?! 2109 ppl waiting more then a 3 weeks They already answered to this question days ago. Simple answer is : NO. They stick to those icones, and improve them.
It's hard to make something terrible when it's already terrible so improvement is all there is left. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
312
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 21:14:26 -
[2139] - Quote
I just found some temporary solution. I just remove the icon colon from my overview and hide all brackets. I will not see where will be/is the fleet but who cares for pvp fights and pvp players |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
98
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 21:31:07 -
[2140] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Alea wrote:Not gonna say please as I'm 99.99999999999999999999% sure the new icons are here to stay, forcing a small number of us out of the game probably forever. :( The dev blog says they are going to make the icons a customizable thing from the overview menu. So you can still stand your friends up, forget your wifes birthday, or show up late for work, because of your EvE addiction.
My kids are grown, my friends have a life of there own so don't need me around to hold there hand, I'm self employed so I can be as late as I want, my GF has access to my bank account so she can get whatever she wants for her B-Day, Eve was my main game until the icon changes so now I play something else to take up my spare time.
CCP will not make any changes so those of us who want the old icon set available again as that's not CCPs way, it's always been there way or the highway and it will always be that way, the icons will never be customizable enough to make them as useful as they once were, the old icons are a small chunk of the good stuff CCP has removed from the game over the years so what's next to be removed that already works perfectly as it already is..?? |
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MavnGoose
Valkyrie.
21
|
Posted - 2015.06.25 23:37:06 -
[2141] - Quote
A tempory sticky tape I have found for the situation is to make all players outside of corp/alliance have a grey shaded background. This helps me distinguish between Npc and player, next thing is to devide your overview tabs into groups ie ships drones structures celestials wrecks etc etc. Somewhat clunky nand limited and may not be any help to our colorblind brothers and sisters . Also a real shame we can only have 5 overview tabs.
To any devs reading please note that I am identifying ships by color shading then reading shiptype name. The icons are still superfluous and of no use at least to me. This fix uses no recently deployed features. |
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
65
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 01:58:17 -
[2142] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:The dev blog says they are going to make the icons a customizable thing from the overview menu. So you can still stand your friends up, forget your wifes birthday, or show up late for work, because of your EvE addiction.
I know that I am french and so genetically bad in english, but the dev blog don't say that. It says that there will be a column who show the icons into the overview customization window. Big difference.
Quote:Add icons to overview customization [window]
WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. This will also double as an in-client legend and visual guide to learning the new icons faster. Where did you read that we will be able to customize them ? |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 02:02:48 -
[2143] - Quote
Sky Marshal wrote:WeGÇÖve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. WeGÇÖre looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. This will also double as an in-client legend and visual guide to learning the new icons faster. Where did you read that we will be able to customize them ?
My mistake. I did read it wrong. Thanks for pointing that out. Just to help people understand, not customize. Can just turn them on and off in the brackets and states menu.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
315
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 07:02:01 -
[2144] - Quote
Thinking/Target of Dev team - "They will write couple of days/weeks and after that will stop and forgot" |
SamuraiJack
Tritanium Industries and Technology Executive Outcomes
155
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 12:22:27 -
[2145] - Quote
Panterata wrote: Thinking/Target of Dev team - "They will write couple of days/weeks and after that will stop and forgot"
or just leave and play other games...
I hear the sov testing is going great... PL took all of DARKNESS sov in 20mins.
/me gets popcorn and goes back to playing XCom
SJ's Chronicles - http://www.fanfiction.net/u/2103579/CLS-SamuraiJack
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Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
103
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 13:44:13 -
[2146] - Quote
SamuraiJack wrote:
or just leave and play other games...
I hear the sov testing is going great... PL took all of DARKNESS sov in 20mins.
/me gets popcorn and goes back to playing XCom
oh, that sounds interesting ..... I-¦m not involved at all in sov gameplay, but it it seems those that warned of the trolling potential of Fozzie sov were quite on the righ track. These changes are the other reasons why so many players dropped out during the last 6 months - CCPs plans created a lot of negative anticipation for all those that were fascinated by the classical powerplay (and skilled for a Titan ).
In the end no one of the old players joined up with the expectation to play "wack a mole in space". |
Bernard Dupont
C0NATUS Echoes of Nowhere
28
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 14:01:32 -
[2147] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:SamuraiJack wrote:
or just leave and play other games...
I hear the sov testing is going great... PL took all of DARKNESS sov in 20mins.
/me gets popcorn and goes back to playing XCom
oh, that sounds interesting ..... I-¦m not involved at all in sov gameplay, but it it seems those that warned of the trolling potential of Fozzie sov were quite on the righ track. These changes are the other reasons why so many players dropped out during the last 6 months - CCPs plans created a lot of negative anticipation for all those that were fascinated by the classical powerplay (and skilled for a Titan ). In the end no one of the old players joined up with the expectation to play "wack a mole in space".
CCP do not want listening to their clients...they still doing shiit since more than 1 year...number of players online never was so low since end of 2007... and know an 10K fall since the begining of 2015... |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 16:19:05 -
[2148] - Quote
Interesting to hear how quickly sov can be overturned. Refreshing actually. Empires will shrink and consolidate. Much more roaming...maybe even ratting in hostile space. I predict alliances will have to more deliberately organize things like production and PI to stay competitive. If you don't have the active members to defend your systems, you will lose em easy. The vulnerability window might be all that stands between you and eviction. Certain systems will have high strategic value now, as bottlenecks, trade routes, etc. I like it, it's anti-lazy...Might even have cta's for home system numbers during vulnerability time.... All of null will have to recognize the threat of upstarts from low and high that have grown their numbers, and honed their PvP and Fleet skills. Nothing will stay the same!
+1 CCP
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 16:27:54 -
[2149] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:SamuraiJack wrote:
or just leave and play other games...
I hear the sov testing is going great... PL took all of DARKNESS sov in 20mins.
/me gets popcorn and goes back to playing XCom
oh, that sounds interesting ..... I-¦m not involved at all in sov gameplay, but it seems those that warned of the trolling potential of Fozzie sov were quite on the right track. These changes are the other reasons why so many players dropped out during the last 6 months - CCPs plans created a lot of negative anticipation for all those that were fascinated by the classical powerplay (and skilled for a Titan ). In the end no one of the old players joined up with the expectation to play "wack a mole in space".
Means if you want your refinery, labs, or fitting service...can't hide in station. Coming from some one who safes up in POS or station when there are intruders...It will be imperative that Corp/Alliance members have a hefty militia fleet armed and ready on the undock. Many PvPers who would cry about people hiding in stations, now have screws to turn to get people to undock or otherwise engage them. I welcome this dynamic.
+1 CCP
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Bernard Dupont
C0NATUS Echoes of Nowhere
29
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 17:00:59 -
[2150] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Interesting to hear how quickly sov can be overturned. Refreshing actually. Empires will shrink and consolidate. Much more roaming...maybe even ratting in hostile space. I predict alliances will have to be more deliberately organize things like production and PI to stay competitive. If you don't have the active members to defend your systems, you will lose em easy. The vulnerability window might be all that stands between you and eviction. Certain systems will have high strategic value now, as bottlenecks, trade routes, etc. I like it, it's anti-lazy...Might even have cta's for home system numbers during vulnerability time.... All of null will have to recognize the threat of upstarts from low and high that have grown their numbers, and honed their PvP and Fleet skills. Nothing will stay the same!
+1 CCP
not all player are nolife without RL, some of us have lot of things to do in RL and can' t wast their time to keep on eye on the game... i think that's will be advantage only for hard gamers and not normal people, neither strategy ... Stop making blow job to cpp and begin to think by your own. |
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slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2015.06.26 19:58:29 -
[2151] - Quote
i'm not nolife, not a fanboy, not an alt of a great player, not a hater, not a blind one... just a casual player with some little time (and money) to spend on game. since few time, i've just log few minutes a day to see how evolve EVE, and, really, it evolve! great for the gamers and lovers of this game! but too much change this last time, with no options to learn with the low time i've to play (hey guys! it's SUMMER^^) so yes, i've to adapt, to learn faster, to evolve cause EVE is a game of ever changing blablabla... and with all the text, message i've read just before, there's a lot of change to come (great, really) but as a casual, i just want to go in my little ship, go around and have fun! i'm not at a school to learn and learn neitheir in work with rules and rules ("YOU must accept this" isn't my philosophy, in reference of the devblog...YOU can accept this seems better, free to have the choice...) as a casual, i'm just going to unsub, this go too fast, and the icongate was too much and i prefer to see the beautiful "pixel" of girls on playa than the pacman set^^
see ya
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slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 20:00:42 -
[2152] - Quote
slphy vansyl wrote:i'm not nolife, not a fanboy, not an alt of a great player, not a hater, not a blind one... just a casual player with some little time (and money) to spend on game. since few time, i've just log few minutes a day to see how evolve EVE, and, really, it evolve! great for the gamers and lovers of this game! but too much change this last time, with no options to learn with the low time i've to play (hey guys! it's SUMMER^^) so yes, i've to adapt, to learn faster, to evolve cause EVE is a game of ever changing blablabla... and with all the text, message i've read just before, there's a lot of change to come (great, really) but as a casual, i just want to go in my little ship, go around and have fun! i'm not at a school to learn and learn neitheir in work with rules and rules ("YOU must accept this" isn't my philosophy, in reference of the devblog...YOU can accept this seems better, free to have the choice...) the fun is no more for now... as a casual, i'm just going to unsub, this go too fast, and the icongate was too much and i prefer to see the beautiful "pixel" of girls on playa than the pacman set^^
see ya
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.26 21:02:25 -
[2153] - Quote
Bernard Dupont wrote:not all players are nolife without RL. Some of us have lot of things to do in RL and can' t wast their time to keep an eye on the game... i think that's will be an advantage only for hard gamers and not normal people, neither strategy ... Stop making blow job to cpp and start to think by your own.
Lol, I always appreciate fan mail...
That's why you can set the vulnerability window for your station, to benefit yourself. I would set it to when most corp/alliance members would be on. Maybe CCP will make a single player version for you 'Real Life' serious people. So that you too, can have your very own station in Null with out all the messy stressful feelings you get from other players being there. Guessing you want an EvE version of the WoW garrison?... Oh wait, your an uber real life player...You must be thinking an Outpost is like a body part that no one else can touch, because it's a No-No!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
59
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 07:17:52 -
[2154] - Quote
Had a look at the icon shading on singularity and does improve visibility, unfortunately i normally have concord ships turned off so doesn't help in game play. Both my sons who have now given up the game are colour blind and they have greater contrast to distinguish shapes,( Like the old B & W TV's) something the new icons are not...line drawings are not as easy to see with peripheral vision.
If you print your cheat sheet off for all the new icons on A3 paper and hold it at the same distance as a screen is from yourself you cannot at a glance tell what is what, just like all the other changes to neocom, in station icons etc. you have turned to white line icons. A mix of coloured shapes or pictograms is quicker and easier to jump to.
Too many changes for changes sake and ive seen a lot. concentrate on fixing in game mechanics that are broken and continue expanding the game content/story.
Asteroid belts are a good improvement, they should be full of particles.
I will keep looking at posts and updates and if i see an improvement to game play i could re sub my accounts.
|
Mira Stargazer
Epic Warfare
54
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 12:18:28 -
[2155] - Quote
In time I will for sure learn to live with the new icons. I might even come to like them some day, even though I doubt it right now.
Problem is that I think you tried to sqeeze in too much information to suit all players.
"Improving playerGÇÖs situational awareness and reaction times in combat." This might be very true, but only if you are a very active player. New or more casual players will instead suffer from longer reaction times.
Where did the old saying "less is more" go?
I have feelings, I can smile - and murder while!
|
Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
5
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 15:10:44 -
[2156] - Quote
Still hoping someone in this DEV team will 'man up' and take responsibility for this mess that is ICONGATE and fall on their sword..
As at the moment TQ is left in a mess I understand until July, meanwhile a significant number of players are unable to play the game as they once did...
DEVs have got their colouring pencils out and shaded a few icons in an attempt to look as though they are doing something.. But us old lags no different...
These icons should never have been released on TQ, and someone should stand up in the CCP team and say so.. The argument put forward by DEVs for this ICON change is very weak and just doesn't stand up in practise..
Sometimes doing stuff just because you can doesn't mean that you should...
Come on CCP get TQ back to a fit state where the game can be enjoyed by all players not just those with 20/20 vision..., get these wretched Icons off TQ ..
and if you need a sword open the cupboard carefully as there are a few skeletons in there... |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 16:13:17 -
[2157] - Quote
Joe Gormley wrote:Still hoping someone in this DEV team will 'man up' and take responsibility for this mess that is ICONGATE and fall on their sword..
As at the moment TQ is left in a mess I understand until July, meanwhile a significant number of players are unable to play the game as they once did...
DEVs have got their colouring pencils out and shaded a few icons in an attempt to look as though they are doing something.. But us old lags no different...
These icons should never have been released on TQ, and someone should stand up in the CCP team and say so.. The argument put forward by DEVs for this ICON change is very weak and just doesn't stand up in practise..
Sometimes doing stuff just because you can doesn't mean that you should...
Come on CCP get TQ back to a fit state where the game can be enjoyed by all players not just those with 20/20 vision..., get these wretched Icons off TQ ..
and if you need a sword open the cupboard carefully as there are a few skeletons in there...
I just don't get it... Is everyone at CCP a 'Super-see-er'? You'd think there would be people there that have glasses or contact lenses... Maybe the Icons are the latest NPC that are encroaching on empire and non empire space alike.
This Icon thing is going to destroy mankind, apparently.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
6
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 16:46:08 -
[2158] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Joe Gormley wrote:Still hoping someone in this DEV team will 'man up' and take responsibility for this mess that is ICONGATE and fall on their sword..
As at the moment TQ is left in a mess I understand until July, meanwhile a significant number of players are unable to play the game as they once did...
DEVs have got their colouring pencils out and shaded a few icons in an attempt to look as though they are doing something.. But us old lags no different...
These icons should never have been released on TQ, and someone should stand up in the CCP team and say so.. The argument put forward by DEVs for this ICON change is very weak and just doesn't stand up in practise..
Sometimes doing stuff just because you can doesn't mean that you should...
Come on CCP get TQ back to a fit state where the game can be enjoyed by all players not just those with 20/20 vision..., get these wretched Icons off TQ ..
and if you need a sword open the cupboard carefully as there are a few skeletons in there... I just don't get it... Is everyone at CCP a 'Super-see-er'? You'd think there would be people there that have glasses or contact lenses too... Maybe the Icons are the latest NPC's, that are encroaching on empire and non-empire space alike. Jove Icons! Icon Incursions! This Icon thing is going to destroy mankind, apparently.
You are only as strong as your brother, and if your brother needs help, you support him....
Unfortunately, CCP appears not to take responsibility for appearing to discriminate against a group with sight issues...
The icons don't, in my opinion, achieve any of the DEVs stated objectives.
Unfortunately many of us have seen this situation before, the ICON project with be kicked into the long grass, which it appears to have already happened, because the agenda and release program has no space for making things work properly for the whole EVE community..
2015 will be remembered for many things in EVE, unfortunately there has been too much hype regarding fluffy stuff, whilst the game itself has suffered through poorly thought out concepts.. Implementation and testing has been woeful, using feedback has been hit and miss, depending on which DEV Team it is.. Which highlight poor quality control management.. So, someone at CCP does need to 'Man up' and take responsibility for this debacle that is ICONGATE..
Personally, 2015 I will remember as the year so many friends just had enough of pointless changes that took the pleasure out of playing the game they had played for years and just no longer log on... I'm sure many other players are also seeing this, where there is only you on comms now...
Quite sad really, and needless..
|
Sky Marshal
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.27 17:33:16 -
[2159] - Quote
About UI and graphic annoyances that CCP should correct, here is my list :
- RGB sliders must return. That don't mean that the new themes should disappear. It is certainly possible to make them cohabitate without problem, as using one would disable the other. - Icons should be customizable by external files (not ANY files, CCP would say what is supported and what are the limitations), with the new icons as default ones. Players will create their proper set, even an old-one-like if they want too, and byebye the icongate. - Neocom should be made opaque or transparent with the transparency slider. I always set it at 0 to make the channels more readable, but the neocom break the consistency of the UI as it can't be made opaque, making the UI not attracting. - This bubble of light at each activated gate should be made disabled at will... seriously, whoever designed it while thinking it was a good fancy idea should be fired, period. I have to change the camera angle each time I encounter this annoyance. I know that the EULA protects CCP about unwanted visual seizures or annoyances that the game can provoke, but it is not a reason to deliberately create something who will provoke them. - A fade-to-black transition as an option, to hide the gate animation for anyone who is annoyed by it (the bubble of light, the flash spots in the tunnel and the change of POV each minute in a 60-system travel make this animation very destabilizing).
I know that CCP won't take care of this few points, as it is impossible to know how much players are really concerned and so that if the cost to do that is justified or not. It is also a matter of pride, as all of them was deliberatly created by CCP. Still, it can be an act in the good direction who can remotivate some of their players. Of course, EVE needs content too, but content with a bad UI and serious visual annoyances will not attract players. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 14:52:25 -
[2160] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Maybe the Icons are the latest NPC's, that are encroaching on empire and non-empire space alike. Jove Icons! Icon Incursions! They are sooo OP! This Icon thing is going to destroy mankind, apparently.
Even more dangerous than the Drifters or Seekers, the new faction of 'Icons' has been decimating the less than enduring of New Eden pilots. Their tactics on the overview, amounts to electronic warfare. Unless you sensor strengthen your mind and senses, you will be forced to disengage from the game. Fortunately, I have refused to surrender, and have become used to their maneuvers. I can now 'Out think' the Icons at their own game...Though they have immunity to even being red boxed. So far the only known damage vulnerability of the Icons appears to be posting on the forums! The forum damage type has had little long-lasting effect up till now...Perhaps it's time to capitulate, and accept our new Overlords.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
|
Tara Eves
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 18:12:41 -
[2161] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:....hurrr....
Belittling the valid opinions of other players isn't going to help the game you know.
It's Sunday night and there's barely 30k players online, these horrendous icons are contributing to the stagnation and deterioration of the health of this game because, when all's said and done, if CCP don't listen, the end will come that much sooner.
Don't believe me? look at the fate of Star Wars Galaxies - that game went from it's prime to it's deathbed in double-quick-time because of a mandated change deeply unpopular with those that played it, ignored by those that made it.
I hope this travesty of an idea is rolled back - it has no purpose other than indulging the OCD of some arse at CCP who has forgotten the wisdom in the old saying "Keep It Simple, Stupid".
ROLL BACK.
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
111
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 19:11:54 -
[2162] - Quote
Tara Eves wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:....hurrr.... Belittling the valid opinions of other players isn't going to help the game you know. It's Sunday night and there's barely 30k players online, these horrendous icons are contributing to the stagnation and deterioration of the health of this game because, when all's said and done, if CCP don't listen, the end will come that much sooner. Don't believe me? look at the fate of Star Wars Galaxies - that game went from it's prime to it's deathbed in double-quick-time because of a mandated change deeply unpopular with those that played it, ignored by those that made it. I hope this travesty of an idea is rolled back - it has no purpose other than indulging the OCD of some arse at CCP who has forgotten the wisdom in the old saying "Keep It Simple, Stupid". ROLL BACK.
I agree the icons are a bad idea but they will never be rolled back or have an option to use the old icons people like us would rather be using, I seriously doubt Eve will die because of this change but it has run some of us off including myself who may never come back as the game as it is right now is unplayable for me.
I have hoards of stuff I'm going to hang onto for a while and see what happens with the icons, if nothing changes I have a few friends that I will give my main toons too then let my three accounts rot away, two are just over 200 mill SP and another has only about 80 mill so I'm hoping to make a few people happy. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 19:19:16 -
[2163] - Quote
Tara Eves wrote:Don't believe me? look at the fate of Star Wars Galaxies - that game went from it's prime to it's deathbed in double-quick-time because of a mandated change deeply unpopular with those that played it, ignored by those that made it.
Hmmm...sounds like it might be sabotage by the 'Loyal player base' more than any game features introduced. Sometimes people over value their own opinions. If you like EvE, play it...If your bored of the relationship and need to play other games to 'Find yourself', do it...but don't blame CCP for your 'infidelity'.
Typical response from an adulterous partner, 'They drove me too it'...Your either a fan of EvE and CCP or your not, don't blame the people who are trying to keep your interest, when it's clearly not there anymore.
Hope the Icons in your new 'relationship' please you...G'bye! o/
EDIT: Can I has your stuff? :D
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Vol Arm'OOO
Bagel and Lox
630
|
Posted - 2015.06.28 22:19:25 -
[2164] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Tara Eves wrote:Don't believe me? look at the fate of Star Wars Galaxies - that game went from it's prime to it's deathbed in double-quick-time because of a mandated change deeply unpopular with those that played it, ignored by those that made it.
Hmmm...sounds like it might be sabotage by the 'Loyal player base' more than any game features introduced. Sometimes people over value their own opinions. If you like EvE, play it...If your bored of the relationship and need to play other games to 'Find yourself', do it...but don't blame CCP for your 'infidelity'. Typical response from an adulterous partner, 'They drove me too it'...Your either a fan of EvE and CCP or your not, don't blame the people who are trying to keep your interest, when it's clearly not there anymore. Hope the Icons in your new 'relationship' please you...G'bye! o/ EDIT: Can I has your stuff? :D
"Typical response from a" myopic faniboi. So basically what your saying is that if CCP makes a shytesandwich, you'd be happy to eat it and ask for more? And its everybody else's fault if CCP fails because if they were really loyal they would have eaten the shytesandwich? Pls. Its way past time you take your nose out of CCP's butt. Any company that ceases to make a product that is wanted by its customers will fail sooner or later. CCP has nobody but itself to blame for the bleeding in its user base.
I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
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Awkward Pi Duolus
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 02:40:01 -
[2165] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Hmmm...sounds like it might be sabotage by the 'Loyal player base' more than any game features introduced. Sometimes people over value their own opinions. If you like EvE, play it...If your bored of the relationship and need to play other games to 'Find yourself', do it...but don't blame CCP for your 'infidelity'. Typical response from an adulterous partner, 'They drove me too it'...Your either a fan of EvE and CCP or your not, don't blame the people who are trying to keep your interest, when it's clearly not there anymore. Hope the Icons in your new 'relationship' please you...G'bye! o/ EDIT: Can I has your stuff? :D
Welcome to the modern world of 'customers voting with their feet'. Doesn't help when a lot of said customers are players who have been in it for many, many years, and have a vested interested in seeing the game survive.
|
Lara Divinity
Black Scorpion Nomads
107
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 11:19:43 -
[2166] - Quote
eve online reachin its lowest player base ever keep up with these silly changes ccp keeep ignoring the feedback thats been given https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/3bfbtb/eve_onlines_online_player_count_reaches_the/ get a grip n swallow ur pride lots of constructive feedback has been given |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 15:13:08 -
[2167] - Quote
Lol, Just play the game!
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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slphy vansyl
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 15:41:04 -
[2168] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game!
lol, just feed the troll!
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Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
112
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:25:55 -
[2169] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game!
Your remark is as useful and just as valuable as most of your other comments, congrats on becoming the most useless person in this thread.
Sorry to feed the troll and I'll stop with it here. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
329
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:26:29 -
[2170] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game!
Lol, we can't!
Ships/NPC icons are shity. Waiting old ones or customization |
|
Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
109
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 17:57:20 -
[2171] - Quote
Dear moderators, how about awarding some medal of honor for the "Troll of the thread" ? |
JFKen Imperia
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
3
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 19:21:52 -
[2172] - Quote
Hello !
Any news / topic about the down clusters ? |
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 19:27:59 -
[2173] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game! Lol, we can't! Ships/NPC icons are shity. Waiting old ones or customization You keep waiting, I keep playing. Works fine for me. |
JFKen Imperia
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 19:38:51 -
[2174] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5853697 for servers's problem |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
331
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 20:48:56 -
[2175] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Panterata wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game! Lol, we can't! Ships/NPC icons are shity. Waiting old ones or customization You keep waiting, I keep playing. Works fine for me.
Yea... CCP made the game since 3 weeks to work only for new ppl to be more "understandable" . We will keep waiting...only 11 days left |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 21:29:29 -
[2176] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Panterata wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game! Lol, we can't! Ships/NPC icons are shity. Waiting old ones or customization You keep waiting, I keep playing. Works fine for me.
If what you posted here was factual you would not be posting here you would be playing Eve. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 21:32:03 -
[2177] - Quote
Panterata wrote:Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Panterata wrote:Rio Bravo wrote:Lol, Just play the game! Lol, we can't! Ships/NPC icons are shity. Waiting old ones or customization You keep waiting, I keep playing. Works fine for me. Yea... CCP made the game since 3 weeks to work only for new ppl to be more "understandable" . We will keep waiting...only 11 days left
This account has about five more days left, my other two has already expired. |
Makkuro Tatsu
Spontaneous Massive Existence Failure
50
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 21:38:14 -
[2178] - Quote
Alea wrote:If what you posted here was factual you would not be posting here you would be playing Eve. Multitasking. You know you want to. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
114
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 21:58:03 -
[2179] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Alea wrote:If what you posted here was factual you would not be posting here you would be playing Eve. Multitasking. You know you want to.
I do want to play but the icons make it impossible for my lack of good eyesight. |
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
266
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 22:28:32 -
[2180] - Quote
Makkuro Tatsu wrote:Alea wrote:If what you posted here was factual you would not be posting here you would be playing Eve. Multitasking. You know you want to. Hah, so true, eve is one of the best games ever to multitask. Stuff like playing eve while watching TV, has kept me playing since 2002 or so :) |
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 22:43:41 -
[2181] - Quote
Orm Magnustat wrote:Dear moderators, how about awarding some medal of honor for the "Troll of the thread" ?
Lol, I'll take a cash prize instead...
Seriously, how bad is your eyesight that your going to keep the game graphics as big stylized Blocks, or Crosses for ships and everything else? Maybe EvE isn't for you anymore after all.
Can we get a 'Blind Persons Cane' to go in the NEX store fashion line up? Maybe call it 'Marshal Cane' or 'Outlaw Cane' or 'Sanctity Cane'. If you can't get your wheelchair up the ramp into your Rifter, go and try 'Zuma's Revenge' or something...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Arch-Magus Mephisto
Black Scorpions Inc Fidelas Constans
4
|
Posted - 2015.06.29 23:27:10 -
[2182] - Quote
OK CCP. You have had more than enough time to go back to the old overview Icons.
Why has this not been done? The player base has spoken quite honestly. It's past time we go to the old icons. |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 02:05:46 -
[2183] - Quote
Arch-Magus Mephisto wrote:OK CCP. You have had more than enough time to go back to the old overview Icons.
Why has this not been done? The player base has spoken quite honestly. It's past time we go to the old icons.
I'm sad to say that the icons are here to stay, if you are lucky enough to have sufficient vision to distinguish one icon from another you will either have to learn to use that mess CCP calls an upgrade or bail out like some of us already have done. |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
272
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 11:12:01 -
[2184] - Quote
Nope... still not used to the new icons. In fact they're somehow getting more confusing with practice and, as a result, I'm playing less. Just the facts.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 11:40:06 -
[2185] - Quote
How are they more confusing with practice? What do you do for a living? Should you be driving on the highway? Are you even able to dress yourself? EvE is pretty complicated, and not 'Downs-friendly'.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
274
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 13:01:45 -
[2186] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:How are they more confusing with practice? What do you do for a living? Should you be driving on the highway? Are you even able to dress yourself? EvE is pretty complicated, and not 'Downs-friendly'.
I'm an artist (trained in fine and commercial). The problem is the negative space. There isn't enough for clarity. Clarity is everything when it comes to clarity.
...I also have 2 Engineering Degrees with a focus on Mechanical Drawing. Thanks for asking.
GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31975
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 13:04:43 -
[2187] - Quote
Yeah, the icons flatten themselves into an orthographic projection.
Crossposting here. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5852527#post5852527
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 15:17:11 -
[2188] - Quote
Lfod Shi wrote:I'm an artist (trained in fine and commercial). The problem is the negative space. There isn't enough for clarity. Clarity is everything when it comes to clarity. ...I also have 2 Engineering Degrees with a focus on Mechanical Drawing. Thanks for asking.
Maybe do a Neural Remap, add extra points to 'Clarity' attribute for 12 months...
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
|
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
26
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 17:59:39 -
[2189] - Quote
Serious Question:
I've been skimming reddit to see if there was any other rage threads anywhere else outside of Eve Forums.
I cannot seem to find any. Even on TMC and other fan sites I find few negative comments in articles where Carnyx is featured or reviewed.
Hell, I've even seen "Thank for the New Icons, CCP!!!" labels on cargo containers outside of trade hub stations. ( 3 to 1 vegas odds that Rio jettisoned them......)
Am I missing 1/2 of the outrage here? Can anyone provide any links to other threadnaughts or a least cruiser sized threads where this discussion is also taking place?
I just can't believe that a change that has spawned 100+ pages here, could not be mirrored on other sites.
Thanks in advance.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
|
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 18:22:58 -
[2190] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:Serious Question:
I've been skimming reddit to see if there was any other icon rage threads anywhere else outside of Eve Forums.
I cannot seem to find any. Even on TMC and other fan sites I find few negative comments about the new icons...and even some positive ones... in articles where Carnyx is featured or reviewed.
Hell, I've even seen "Thank for the New Icons, CCP!!!" labels on cargo containers outside of trade hub stations. ( 3 to 1 vegas odds that Rio jettisoned them......)
Am I missing 1/2 of the outrage here? Can anyone provide any links to other threadnaughts or a least cruiser sized threads where this discussion is also taking place?
I just can't believe that a change that has spawned 100+ pages here, could not be mirrored on other sites.
Thanks in advance.
Dan
Wasn't me that launched the billboard, barely in high-sec lately...nice thought though, sorry if you gambled and lost some money over it, lol. 3 to 1 odds I dropped a can, would have been a safer bet than ISK doublers there...
It's literally ten people (plus or minus) that are probably rhinoceros on the Kenyan Savanna, aspiring to be human and play EvE...If they could smell ships approaching, there'd be no complaint. I have suggested if their eyes don't do their jobs, you can't blame CCP for doing theirs....Then they yell at me. Others, can't understand the little red figures, and their reality is shattered.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
27
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Posted - 2015.06.30 18:30:25 -
[2191] - Quote
O.K. , I can possibly accept that there are 10 + posters on THIS thread that are doing most of the critical posting over the new icon changes.......but have YOU seen any other threads like this.....anywhere else? Reddit.....TMC Forums....anywhere?
I'm trying to grasp the scope of the upheaval here. I'm doing a rough count of toons that favor vs those who do not on the topic for a side project. A lot of anger and passion in this thread, and I would assume that this discussion/debate must be raging on more than just this one platform.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
333
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Posted - 2015.06.30 18:37:32 -
[2192] - Quote
I think someone in the previous pages posted some links of other forums of the icons...I think one of them was in some russian forum |
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
27
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 19:18:51 -
[2193] - Quote
I thought that as well, but I've read every post over since it formed, and just quickly scanned through 80% of this thread on three screens and there is no links that i can find.
There are a few links to other threads in regards to the Old Map / New Map discussion, and the Entosis link debate, but absolutely nothing I can find that directs me to other threads anywhere else, on this site or others in relationship to mass complaints about this icon change.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6024
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 19:42:42 -
[2194] - Quote
Removed some off topic posts.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
333
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 20:44:57 -
[2195] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:I thought that as well, but I've read every post over since it formed, and just quickly scanned through 80% of this thread on three screens and there is no links that i can find.
There are a few links to other threads in regards to the Old Map / New Map discussion, and the Entosis link debate, but absolutely nothing I can find that directs me to other threads anywhere else, on this site or others in relationship to mass complaints about this icon change.
Dan
Check it. I'm 100% sure that there was a link to some russian forum if is not removed from ISD. Even there was a vote regarding the icons |
J0rj Lmoz
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2015.06.30 21:56:29 -
[2196] - Quote
Needed some time to get used to the new icons, but now I'm starting to like them.
Keep the good work CPP.
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Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
321
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Posted - 2015.07.01 00:16:33 -
[2197] - Quote
"I Survived the Summer Icon Rage" commemorative t-shirts will be going on sale soon. Wear yours at the next EVE FanFest!
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
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Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
22
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Posted - 2015.07.01 00:24:44 -
[2198] - Quote
Almost 2,200 comments (not counting rage posts that were nuked), over 50,000 views... I'd say this topic is important to more than the few left commenting on a topic a lot of people may have given up on. Let CCP make a vote on the icons if they really want to know how many people favor them but do you honestly think they would do something like that?
Some good news that most can agree on, the new Drone Icons look much better than what we are currently stuck with. I wish I had a link to share but atm I do not. |
Jeven HouseBenyo
Baron and Serpent Productions
201
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 02:55:37 -
[2199] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote:CCP Claymore wrote: We have been looking at these changes with the colorblind player in mind and we have looked at them through some simulators, but not being colorblind we really need your feedback if this is helping your experience. Colorblind players please let us know how they look and if they are better.
Might I suggest visiting the Color Blind Awareness Organization. They have interesting comparison charts which, if I may suggest, would be handy to keep on file for all art and graphic designers to reference: http://www.colourblindawareness.org/colour-blindness/Personally, two friends of mine suffer 2 of the 3 types of color blindness. The one suffers the most common "deuteranopia" ("red/green" color blindness) which means any color that includes red in it, is "subtracted" in some (or all) level. I've noticed he completely thinks red is brown. He also has mentioned that vegetation is "a mustard brown or yellow" and the "sky is a deep blue". The other friend has "protanopia" (a slight variant of "red/green") where, oddly, she describes that, on some days the sky is "blue" (to her) but on other days where the sky is tinted/stormy (or dawn/dusk), she has described the sky as "a little like a pink day"... It "appears", in my experiences and studies, that the most common color that will be seen by "most" will be a variant of blue. There are always exceptions, but in my graphic design jobs in the late 90s, it was imperative to focus on "pure" greens, reds and blues. I am hoping things have changed since then, but even back in '98, I had a program that was able to (at a simple keystroke) switch my entire monitor through various color blindnesses so that I could "see" what colors of things which a company/client wanted to be "highlighted" (or "stand out") to the largest group of potential customers had to be a "commonly shared" color of distinction from the rest of the text/shapes/colors etc. It's been awhile, and I forget the hexadecimal code, but the best color was somewhere in the blue wavelength areas of the visible light spectrum. I'm sure there are advances in programs for graphic designers using both RGB and CMYK color preparations on computer monitors these days, but it is a rather basic filtration system program that barely takes up space. I hope this helps.
Then there's the oddity vision/color problems out there that don't get as much attention. Thankfully, they (usually!) don't impact computer monitor viewing as much as the standard colorblind variants. For example, 'night blind' and other types of vision issues where amount and/or type of light causes colors to not be accurate. Don't ask me to drive anywhere at dusk when the directions include looking for certain colored landmarks, that time of day outside has all vision in grey tones with screaming red lights the only other 'colors' available. Street signs with a green or black background and white letters are completely blank to me. At least I can see tail lights and stop lights, right??
Random non-Eve factoid. The ordering of Green Amber Red on stop lights are in a specific order across (most/all?) countries, for this very reason. So the color blind can still 'see' that one light is at least glowing, and know what to do while driving.
Back to Eve info. Is there an image or something up to show what changes, if any, are inbound to icons with the mini-expansion? Time's running out on this last account, want to see if it's worth tacking more time onto it.
Any memo yet on this fast track release cycle that's giving the player base half baked, half finished, and sometimes broken/buggy 'new!' shinys and it possibly slowing down for better Quality Testing before feeding it to the unwashed paying masses? Riding the brakes might save CCP some headaches with 1) bug lists with each release, 2) howling masses faced with unwanted and/or changes for change sake not for improvement of game play, 3) time to read and actually use feedback from Sisi threads, therefore possible short circuiting some of the shrieks and gnashing of teeth that piles up on forum threads.
And angry customer base is only a plus when it at least feels listened to, not repeatedly blown of and 'insulted'. Happy customers tend to spend more of their hard collected cash on a company that gives at least a few bones tossed in their direction. And admission of Kender Oops! moments along with apologies buys a loyalty that can't be quantified in a spreadsheet or statistics number crunch. Sarcasm as a customer service technique is not a positive to have for very long, ladies and gents of CCP. And pride goeth before a bankruptcy.
>Jeven
Haunting Issues, Workarounds & Localizations until acct. expires.
Minny boat flyer, when all else doesn't work, smack the control panel.
Snark at 11 24/7/365.25.
"Ragequiting" over Icongate.
No you can't has my stuffs!
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
31996
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 05:58:17 -
[2200] - Quote
I spent most of the day with a long time friend who is an electrical engineer, working for a systems consulting firm. He told me the basis of his job, I thought it was interesting.
Not necessarily knowing how to do the jobs in the tech companies he consults with / for, he goes to the lowest level workers he has access to and asks them for a short list of their biggest complaints. Then he goes to the next level of workers and asks them for theirs. He does this all the way up to the top level of the company that he has access to.
Then he goes back and asks a handful of people who struck him as talented, or were recommended for having good ideas by their peers. He picks their brain about how to synthesize a unified plan for the items that appeared most frequently on his list. Weighted for being upper level and lower level, of course.
He's in and out of a company in two weeks.
He makes a ton of money and he's living the dream... he's a twentysomething with a Viper, and a luxury sport sedan for a daily driver, the works. I imagine the results are worthwhile, or he'd probably not have that job and his firm would not exist.
I had a great time talking about trends and common pitfalls that he has seen over time, across companies and industries. It's full spectrum stuff, from upper level management to final product execution, and everything in between.
Imagine what the result of his work would be if his firm was hired by CCP. Having talked to him, and aggregating what I've seen and heard over the years, I can tell you it's a lot of what you'd expect.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
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Arbor Wattle
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.07.01 07:55:41 -
[2201] - Quote
CCP i would like to be able to launch the game without having to hit the launch button 5 million times over 5-10minutes. |
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
334
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 10:20:38 -
[2202] - Quote
Arbor Wattle wrote:CCP i would like to be able to launch the game without having to hit the launch button 5 million times over 5-10minutes.
CCP: You must use to it. We don't care even if we have 1 mil feedback. We implement this bug because we think is cool and we already test it on the SISI and don't have any negative feedbacks. On next patch we will include 10 mil times hiting the launch button. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.07.01 13:07:16 -
[2203] - Quote
The Icons I like...Everyone knows that now. I thought some of the vision problems people spoke of were hyperbole, but it's actually a 'thing'. The comprehension problems people are having? Well, I don't know what to say to that...
Guess the end of the matter for me, after subjecting you all to my long winded satirical opinions, is that personally...I don't want to go back to old stuff. My condolences to folks who have eye trouble (CCP is sensitive from recent posts)...and the weirder comprehension thing. Call it selfish, but for me it works. In the end it's CCP's descision, and what ever they are going to do...I will still fly my spaceships in New Eden, not in some other game.
Look forward to Fozzy-Sov clearing out some cobwebs in null too...then I can inform you all of what I think about that too.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Joe Gormley
Nemo Modicus Group
22
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Posted - 2015.07.01 18:53:04 -
[2204] - Quote
Rio Bravo wrote:The Icons I like...Everyone knows that now. I thought some of the vision problems people spoke of were hyperbole, but it's actually a 'thing'. The comprehension problems people are having? Well, I don't know what to say to that... Guess the end of the matter for me, after subjecting you all to my long winded satirical opinions, is that personally...I don't want to go back to old stuff. My condolences to folks who have eye trouble (CCP is sensitive from recent posts)...and the weirder comprehension thing. Call it selfish, but for me it works. In the end it's CCP's descision, and what ever they are going to do...I will still fly my spaceships in New Eden, not in some other game. Look forward to Fozzy-Sov clearing out some cobwebs in null too...then I can inform you all of what I think about that too.
I really struggle to understand how you can say CCP are sensitive to players with sight problems... If they were, these new ICONs would have been gone with hours once the sight issue had been established....
But hey, I struggle to understand why CCP would put a development project on TQ... Only problem is it will remain a development project that will never be fixed.... Like... ah, the list is too long.. and peeps who actual play know the issues..
Likewise, looking forward to seeing what opportunities the new SOV changes will bring... |
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
65
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Posted - 2015.07.01 19:27:22 -
[2205] - Quote
Speaks for itself: link to server figures, no guessing why!
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
Last Sunday was the lowest number of players for many years. |
Michael Ruckert
Hohere Kavallerie-Kommando
326
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Posted - 2015.07.02 01:04:23 -
[2206] - Quote
I suggest you read this for comprehension.
http://crossingzebras.com/that-time-again/
"No matter how well you perform there's always somebody of intelligent opinion who thinks it's lousy." - Laurence Olivier
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OldWolf69
Applied Anarchy SpaceMonkey's Alliance
186
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Posted - 2015.07.02 09:07:18 -
[2207] - Quote
Actually that map is irrelevant, change wise, if it needs CCP's help, for things to happen. Fun most know that already, and some just pretend they don't see it. Even NOW there's no real reasons for ppl to do a lot of moving and conquering. Ofc, there's small fights, a system taken here and there. But we had that before, and even better. We had big fights too. Some do not like big fights? Not my problem and not for me to care. Or care if they get only the content they like or not. Small=good. Big=bad. CCP, this a direct consequence of biting on trolling from your side. Handle it. Ppl go away. Is time to act. or... McDonalds ----> |
Destrukter
Mafia Redux Feign Disorder
22
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Posted - 2015.07.02 21:47:56 -
[2208] - Quote
OldWolf69 wrote:Actually that map is irrelevant, change wise, if it needs CCP's help, for things to happen. Fun most know that already, and some just pretend they don't see it. Even NOW there's no real reasons for ppl to do a lot of moving and conquering. Ofc, there's small fights, a system taken here and there. But we had that before, and even better. We had big fights too. Some do not like big fights? Not my problem and not for me to care. Or care if they get only the content they like or not. Small=good. Big=bad. CCP, this a direct consequence of biting on trolling from your side. Handle it. Ppl go away. Is time to act. or... McDonalds ---->
What do you think can change how things are going? Removing pos's? Nope. Fozzie (troll)sov? Low sec and wh dudes will probably enjoy messing with people for a little while. More strategic icons?! Lol.
Imo the best sov is the one they did away with in the beginning. Back then it made sense to build empires and have to maintain them. Then we went to drop tcu and pay a bill. Now ccp thinks they are going to get everyone interested in null again with faction warefare sov. Unfortunately, I just don't see it happening. |
Rio Bravo
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
69
|
Posted - 2015.07.03 11:42:37 -
[2209] - Quote
Makes sense, always hated the AFK nature of some mechanics. Would be refreshing to get rid of the 10 alt mining fleets all in nooby corps... The sov thing I think will be good too. Goons will roll over everyone in protest, but they are only complaining because they know it will be harder for them to hold what they have comparatively then. Null holdings will become smaller no doubt, based much more on active members of alliances...No more AFK sov either.
GÇ£You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig.-áI dig.GÇ¥
-á- Clint Eastwood, misquote.
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Jared Tobin
Bloodstone Industries B.S.I.
282
|
Posted - 2015.07.04 21:44:58 -
[2210] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:I thought that as well, but I've read every post over since it formed, and just quickly scanned through 80% of this thread on three screens and there is no links that i can find.
There are a few links to other threads in regards to the Old Map / New Map discussion, and the Entosis link debate, but absolutely nothing I can find that directs me to other threads anywhere else, on this site or others in relationship to mass complaints about this icon change. This was this additional thread established and used to have more productive feedback, etc over specificly icon/overview feedback, suggestions, etc:
Dev blog: Feedback on the new Overview Brackets |
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Sgt Ocker
Military Bustards FUBAR.
641
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 07:56:49 -
[2211] - Quote
Just wondering; With all the new pretty, colorful effects being added to the game, why is the launcher so drab, colorless and boring?
PS; It is now asking me to accept the EULA every time I log a character in. Not bad enough the launcher already took 3X as long to get into the game as the EXE does but now I have to click an Except button each time for each character too.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
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Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
27
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 16:39:15 -
[2212] - Quote
Jared Tobin wrote:Dan Seavey Allier wrote:I thought that as well, but I've read every post over since it formed, and just quickly scanned through 80% of this thread on three screens and there is no links that i can find.
There are a few links to other threads in regards to the Old Map / New Map discussion, and the Entosis link debate, but absolutely nothing I can find that directs me to other threads anywhere else, on this site or others in relationship to mass complaints about this icon change. This was this additional thread established and used to have more productive feedback, etc over specificly icon/overview feedback, suggestions, etc: Dev blog: Feedback on the new Overview Brackets
Awesome!
Thank you very much, Jared.
This thread is way too polarized and redundant to be of use.
Cheers!
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
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D'Lest De'Kranken
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2015.07.05 19:40:17 -
[2213] - Quote
Dan Seavey Allier wrote:[quote=Jared Tobi This thread is way too polarized and redundant to be of use.
Your opinion. Like everyone elses'. means nothing. 99.9% disagree with CCP (troll posts not withstanding). You blowing it off means Jack Sh.. Enjoy your weekend. |
Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
28
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Posted - 2015.07.14 03:23:18 -
[2214] - Quote
You are right about opinions and worth.
Dead wrong on the 99%
A lot of people think that complaining loudly, and often, justifies their position. It however does not recruit followers to their cause.
The same group of people will find something fresh to complain and rage quit over (again) tomorrow morning after downtime.
I'm not saying you shouldn't let CCP know about your displeasure or opinion. They need to know, and they do react. (Icons were tweaked, no?)
Just accept that if you are not in the vast majority your tailor made wishes shall not be granted. You are not 99% You are not legion. Change is good. as the dev blog states, adapt or die.
Try to enjoy the next release.
Dan
Honey Never Sleeps.
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uhnboy ghost
retard hills
78
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Posted - 2015.07.20 15:59:37 -
[2215] - Quote
6h left on sub so just wanted to say tnx for 2,5 great years, see u all again when we get custom OV/UI.. maybe soon(tm) ???
i leave eve whit: 49m SP 16B isk (gave away 31b to diffrent noob help corps + some random giveaways) 42 plex 38b i random ships/stuff
im out, fly safe 07
//uhnboy 84K probe scans in 2014 http://i.imgur.com/Uaid5iu.png
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
359
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 18:38:44 -
[2216] - Quote
I will give you a free idea CCP but you can pay me if you wish.....I see that you don't have any ideas and don't know what to do that's why f....k up the old icons.
For the next useless patch that you will make: When you click on the FIT button on the Fitting management, the client to start "looking and searching" for ship modules into the station containers in the main hangar. As you know (but probably not) most of ppl keep their staff (modules) in some stations containers to be more organized - named like High Slot, Mid Slot, Low slot etc etc.
Now to fit a ship and use this Fit button -
1. You must find all high modules according to the fitting and drag them in the main hangar 2. You must find all med slot modules according to the fitting and drag them in the main hangar 3. You must find all low slot modules according to the fitting and drag them in the main hangar 4. You must find all rigs that you need according to the fitting and drag them in the main hangar And after that click Fit. - which is useless because If I need to go for example in my High slot container and find the guns that I need I just make right click and Fit to ship |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32067
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 18:51:08 -
[2217] - Quote
In the meantime, what you should do is leave everything in one giant pile and organize it using filters.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
|
Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
359
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 20:10:26 -
[2218] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:In the meantime, what you should do is leave everything in one giant pile and organize it using filters.
And to remember the names of 5000 items in game just to use the filters...very clever |
Sgt Ocker
Military Bustards FUBAR.
680
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 23:56:26 -
[2219] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:In the meantime, what you should do is leave everything in one giant pile and organize it using filters. Once they include sort by fitting, sort by slot placement, that might be ok. Having filters that are user friendly wouldn't hurt either - Can't sort "drones" by filtering "drones", it replies "nothing found". Not much point to filters if you have to know the name of every item you want to filter. Try filtering damage controls.
Personal assets at least lets you sort by "slot" but sadly there is no "type" option
And really, some just don't like the look of a total shambles mess. A few thousand items in your hangar is just mess when you can't sort properly.
Industry tab can source material location to start jobs using multiple containers - Would it be so hard to do it for ship fitting?
A way to unfit a rack of modules with 1 click would be nice too - would make refitting and trying out different configs much easier. (nothing quite like unfitting 8 launcher or guns individually so you can try another type.) "Strip fitting", could be broken up into highs, mids, lows, all. Right click a stack of guns - "Fit to active ship" could fit the rack, instead of just 1 at a time.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode -
Vice Admiral, Forum Dictator
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Vila eNorvic
62
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Posted - 2015.07.22 00:06:52 -
[2220] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Can't sort "drones" by filtering "drones", it replies "nothing found". My 'Drones' filter works fine. |
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Tara Eves
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
29
|
Posted - 2015.08.02 11:28:25 -
[2221] - Quote
New Icons are still a train-wreck.
Fire whoever had the idea and roll it back, please. (or at least let those of us that want to toggle the old ones back on).
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Kiera Oramara
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 19:48:31 -
[2222] - Quote
I told you that YOUR new icons SUX and well they did and still do for that matter
But they are way better now then before so good work on that
The frigates and drones still looks way to similar
K
.
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Panterata
BRUTAL GENESIS GaNg BaNg TeAm
359
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 21:04:40 -
[2223] - Quote
2 months passed and your new icons is still sh...ty! Give us our old icons back! |
K1RTH G3RS3N
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
105
|
Posted - 2016.01.20 10:15:56 -
[2224] - Quote
CCP can you ATLEAST give us the option of using the old icons? 111 pages of people asking for the old way back. I just resubbed and these new icons are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO shite! They get mixed in with the rest of the overview. |
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