But why? Half of those 72 pages is You! Still didn't hear any game-breaking fundamentals except maybe "comfort". I shall dull it down for you: you need scouts. Scouts is where it's at. And, when on familiar terrain, corp bookmarks. Granted there are still some issues with instant-propagation of bookmarks and alliance bookmarks... but please.

Have a little faith in CCP -- there is definitely a plan behind all this and the way the plan seems to be going, it's in favour of smaller gangs and puts more emphasis on each individual's capabilities. Not to mention the Grand Masterplan seems to favour one *real* person per spaceship, as opposed to "I am a one-man fleet flying eight vessels, because I'm cool like that".

Now, please respond to what I said instead of "he's a beacon of ignorant trololololl" for it does not reflect well on your cognitive abilities either. Write a proper response or don't bother at all.

seems logical, I mean Im all for the changes to slow down targets to stop the brainless blobs that occur without true pilot skill, but there is one flaw in this logic if a fleet is comprised of one Corporation and that corp has a BM A in Corp BM's technically every player in that fleet is then viable for that "BM A" so explain why cant they warp as fleet "Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldnGÇÖt warp to on their own." well they can warp to said "BM A" because its in their corp BM's? but seriously I do agree with it too many brainless F1 warriors who have no initiative, Good Times..

Did I mention that all that this change will do is make KITING superior to everything?
Its virtually impossible to land your fleet on the kiters if you cant do a fleet warp.

This change will make kiting-fleets the only viable option.

RIP good brawlfights.

Hi Gentle Space Foke,

As announced on the o7 show we are making some changes to fleet warp. [b]Fleet Commanders, Wing Commanders & Squad Commanders will no longer be able to warp to anything a fleet member couldnGÇÖt warp to on their own.

CCP Larrikin, you should get an account and start playing the game... I realy hope it will help you realize the stupidity of your ideas and how they will kill this game in the future.

I have no idea what your agenda or desired nerf would be, but for the sake of SCIENCE, i think you should try organizing a huge effort to scream "NERF MINING DRONES!" just to see what would happen. We need more data points to discover the pattern!

You clearly have never shared BMs via jet cans. It can take a whole minute to "cut and paste" even longer. And you have only ONE BM. You need to do that 30 times for a fleet of 30!

And if its taken you 1-2mins to scan someone down, your not going to catch anything where we hunt. You got 30 seconds. Tops. And yea a good dscaner prober can scan someone down in a single probe scan with probes on dscan measured in seconds.

-Scan something down - 1-2 min if skills and technique are good

Congrats CCP,

Even after talking with the wormhole community you are still going forward with this change, without any forthcoming to the wormhole dwellers.

May by you still want your original plan to become reality: wormhole space is not for permanent inhabitants

Anyhow: this change is forcing a lot of wormhole people out of the wormholes they live in.
Wormhole space will become a very quiet place after this change.



for any nullbear: we don't live in stations, we don't have gates. The only way of moving is through bookmarks and scan results!
So basically they are taking away our means to navigate anywhere!

stuff

I see a lot of complaints in this discussion that seem to center on the idea that Eve is a better game when it is difficult.

[...]

Anyone can change my mind with a well reasoned argument, yet it is very difficult to interpret an argument as well reasoned when the supporting facts are either attacks, or clearly haven't been given a second look by the writer. Perhaps the ability to understand a perspective other than your own would aid you in making these arguments.

I mean seriously
-Scan something down - 1-2 min if skills and technique are good
-Save location- 1 sec
-Open people & location submenu -1sec
-Find your location you wish to share -1sec
-Shift click and drag into your cargo -1sec
-Jettison can -1sec
-Tell fleet member designated as warp in to loot can -1 sec (more if you didn't designate warp in or they are not paying attention)
-Tell warp in to to warp selves to BM -based on warp time and system size 10-30+ sec (for largest system in BS fleet comp takes 95 sec)
-Fleet warp to member -based on warp time and system size 10-30+ sec (for largest system in BS fleet comp takes 95 sec)

total time 3 min 6 sec
total time that is added to the regular process maybe 35+ sec and at most 100 sec

35+ whole seconds what ever are we going to do (and mind you 30 sec warp for BS is approx 90 AU give or take a few seconds for acceleration and deceleration)

That was my rant some of you will TL:DR it some will read it and agree, some will disagree. I don't care either way just stop bitching so, dam much and learn to adapt to things.

And yet, absolutely nobody in the discussion is actually saying 'EVE is a better game when it is difficult'. The proposed changes don't reduce 'difficulty' at all - nor, for that matter, do they improve 'clarity'.

This is a great example of that well reasoned argument. The concepts are explained, there isn't any needless flamebait, and an alternative is presented.

At first I was on the fence about these changes but seeing how many whiny baby elite pvpers that are so fond of these changes I say bring on more changes.

Remember kids, its adapt or die.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out, we don't want ass prints on the new door!

[...]

The regular fleet members? The ones who don't have any 'active participation' over 'lock target, press F1'? They're choosing to be that. They're actively deciding 'I want to just shoot something and get my kills, and to hell with all of the things that need doing'. That's why FCs have to call for more logi, call for boosters, actively ask people to get into the specialized, active roles - not because there's nothing to do, but because people don't want to do it.

The only way you change that is by making the 'I am the guy who does dps' role into something more active. There's ways to do that. There's even ways to do it without overloading the people who are already doing plenty. Changing fleet warp... ain't it.

Experience is compelling isn't it, but institutional processes in a large alliance such as yours inevitably lead their members into passivity, reward risk averse behaviour and punish non-conformance. If you expect creativity or initiative you won't find it, the culture abhors it. You'd be much more likely to find anger at the suggestion that 'they' take a lead, after all mixed messages are intensely frustrating. Your membership will prefer to make heroes of their fc to explain their complacency, and the FCs just want them to hit F1, like Henry Ford put it "Why is it that every time I ask for a pair of hands, they come with a brain attached?"

Experience is compelling isn't it, but institutional processes in a large alliance such as yours inevitably lead their members into passivity, reward risk averse behaviour and punish non-conformance. If you expect creativity or initiative you won't find it, the culture abhors it. You'd be much more likely to find anger at the suggestion that 'they' take a lead, after all mixed messages are intensely frustrating. Your membership will prefer to make heroes of their fc to explain their complacency, and the FCs just want them to hit F1, like Henry Ford put it "Why is it that every time I ask for a pair of hands, they come with a brain attached?"

Giving a logistics pilot something to do other than watch the broadcast window would be amazing.