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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 559	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:23:09 - [1681] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Lugh Crow-Slave 2115	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:34:54 - [1682] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. i don't think anyone is questioning the motives it was even brought up inn the link you sent Citadel worm hole tax
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 264	Posted - 2016.04.15 06:47:57 - [1683] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Doing my part P.S. Nice vid
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 17650	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:14:01 - [1684] - Quote Frostys Virpio wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: Shallanna Yassavi wrote: If the daily were "go out and get podded", it would be a lot more interesting. That's something you don't want to bring +5s to, and the low-level implant market would go wheeeeee! would it? i would just stay in a dumb clone untill i needed to swap then go to jita in a pod and send a duel request It's like some of the poster rightfully against this idea are also so triggered into a fit of hate they forget to use their brain to think for even a second how an EVE player would skirt around their proposed rule... Yes it's susceptible to cheap exploits, but compared to "warp to a belt and kill a single rat", what does 'cheap' even mean. "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
Lugh Crow-Slave 2116	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:19:06 - [1685] - Quote Lavayar wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Doing my part P.S. Nice vid good man dot forget this one Citadel worm hole tax
Steijn Quay Industries 1060	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:46:34 - [1686] - Quote Pryce Caesar wrote: If people logged out and never logged back in over something as simple as this, can they be said to have been so invested in EVE Online in the first place? Is one change really all that is required for some people to quit and never look back? you say something as simple as this, but add this to other problems CCP have introduced and suddenly this collection of simple things outweighs any reason you had for playing the game in the first place.
Khan Wrenth Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation 560	Posted - 2016.04.15 07:48:52 - [1687] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc There's something about EvE that just breaks my ability to watch Youtube videos of it. Anybody else experience this? You try to sit there, watch the video, but reflexively, every once in a while you move your mouse cursor over and click+drag, because you want to ship spin and see a different angle on the beautiful ships. And of course, it's a video, all you do is pause it from clicking on it. I'm sure anybody watching me do this, without context, must think I'm completely nuts. "He keeps clicking on the video, pausing it, uttering a curse under his breath, then resuming the video. Why does he do this?" Not just with this video. Almost any video regarding EvE. I remember watching bomb run tutorial videos, and I kept doing it there too. And those videos showcasing Golems stomping people in nullsec? "Hmm, glare from the game's light source is ruining the view of the paintjob, just going to...clickpause....[bleep] I did it again...clickunpause...sigh...". Getting back to the disucssion at hand, however, the video touches upon the psychology of this and I'd like to emphasize that. This entire thing feels patronizing. It feels manipulative. It feels like the company is pulling our strings rather than letting us be. I'm sure if every individual sat here and thought about it, you could come up with a scenario from your past that had similar themes. There was something someone wanted from you. Or maybe there was something you were already going to do, but someone wanted more or wanted it sooner. For a quick and easy example, you're a teenager living with your parents. Today you're going to borrow the car and take the family's laundry to the laundromat, do some of your own errands, and come home. Promptly at 7:00am, your mother is knocking on your bedroom door, pleading for you to go out and to the laundry right now. For no reason, either. It's not good enough that you're doing it on your own time, you have to do it on her time. After some bickering about being able to sleep in on a Saturday, you're already agitated and awake. But now she's patronizing you, saying she'll give you a Reese's Fast Break bar if you do it right now. She takes a fishing pole and dangles it in front of your face while you're trying to just get 15 more minutes of sleep, dangit. You, as an agent of your life, now have less perceived control over your own actions. If you do it on her terms, you think to yourself about how your mother is still dictating what you do in your life. You resent surrendering that bit of your own agency, even if it is just one little bit. You worry about it becoming a trend. You worry about slipping down a slope where other people dictate bits of your life, and each bit diminishes you. If you don't do it, well, all the same errands happen, you just don't get the candy bar. And damn, those Reese's are good stuff. Or maybe the reward was using the car that night to take Jennifer Parker to the Lake. In a game about free will, choices, and consequences, this is enforcing a lose-lose scenario upon the players. Either we surrender a bit of autonomy, the cornerstone of the game, to get a reward, or we miss out on a "bell" of a reward so tempting even Pavlov would be impressed. We're not here to be your bit__s. But we feel like we are if we go along with it, and we feel like we're missing out on something significant when we don't. Lose-lose. Worse yet, we know you're purposefully manipulating us, making us feel patronized, and we resent you for it. Lose-lose-lose. Let's reverse this and turn the tables on CCP. CCP, let's take any random idea off the current front page of "Player Features and Ideas". The author of that idea is going to take a literal fishing pole, attach a business card sprayed gold with "PLEX" written on it, and dangle it in front of the faces of developers and managers at your company at random intervals while you're trying to work. The promise is that if you implement their idea, they'll plex two additional accounts for a year, and leave them AFK cloaky in null to boost PCU too. You can wave them off and disregard them. But tomorrow they're going to do it again. And again. And again. It gets annoying, doesn't it? Does it feel patronizing? And after you wave him off, you see him approach the desk of the dev a few feet away from you. And you think to yourself, "If that Dev does this guy's bidding, he's going to bring in more cash to the company, and he might even get recognition for it from the boss. Maybe even a raise." Now you're tempted. Not because of a reward. But because someone else might get ahead while you're sticking to your principles and refusing to go along with it. Hey, you have goals in your life. Retirement fund needs to be funded, kids need to go to college. Someone at the office is getting a year-end bonus. If there's a chance some extra dollars come your way... Now this isn't a reward, is it? It's a form of coercion. And you hate yourself for thinking about it. Because this has corrupted and diminished your autonomy, because they are corrupting the process involved. The reward is one of the most amazing MMO's ever made. The process should be making it even more amazing. Corrupting the process with a Reese's Fast Break diminishes the game, diminishes us, and diminishes you too. Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
elitatwo Eve Minions The-Company 1160	Posted - 2016.04.15 08:24:42 - [1688] - Quote Mikkal Rune wrote: Lugh Crow-Slave wrote: any chance some one has the link to the other video made talking about why players feel so bad about this change? was a bit more scripted You mean this one? That's the one! Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike. We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
PAPULA Black Aces I N F A M O U S 88	Posted - 2016.04.15 08:52:14 - [1689] - Quote So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing. We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions" So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ?
Terrorfrodo Renegade Hobbits for Mordor 725	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:16:59 - [1690] - Quote Princess Adhara wrote: - "Dessies down roaming fleet leaving in 5, join up!!!" - "How long will that take? My daily will reset in an hour, I don't wanna miss it... nevermind, I'll try to join you tomorrow, have fun guys!" You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam. Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost. .

Lugh Crow-Slave 2119	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:22:59 - [1691] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: Princess Adhara wrote: - "Dessies down roaming fleet leaving in 5, join up!!!" - "How long will that take? My daily will reset in an hour, I don't wanna miss it... nevermind, I'll try to join you tomorrow, have fun guys!" You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam. Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost. right because the OP didn't allude to this becoming much more than one rat and its never spiraled ot of control in any other MMO when they see just how well it affects their hollow numbers Citadel worm hole tax
Lugh Crow-Slave 2119	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:23:58 - [1692] - Quote PAPULA wrote: So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing. We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions" So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ? doesn't have the same physiological affect on ppl anyway if it was the same thing there would be no need to add this Citadel worm hole tax
Lavayar Russian SOBR Dream Fleet 266	Posted - 2016.04.15 09:40:19 - [1693] - Quote Terrorfrodo wrote: You meet rats on every roam at gates, or you warp into a belt while someone is on bio break. No problem and surely not a reason to skip a roam. Actually the FC would probably just warp the whole fleet into a belt during the roam to shoot rats so everyone gets their daily SP boost. For god's sake! At the end of the day FC will be annoyed of doing this ****.
Skia Aumer Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance 255	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:14:53 - [1694] - Quote Valia Fournier wrote: Last, it's great that you gave us more insight into the project, which should have happened in your first post. But you took a LOT of feedback and changed....nothing. Fine, but you didn't tell us anything from 50+ pages of feedback that you were willing to look into changing. You just told us how we are wrong. Why solicit our feedback in the first place? This is the old way of CCP doing things, (post a feature, gather feedback, tell players how they are wrong rather than being collaborative) and it's extremely frustrating. This. CCP Rise wrote: We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. The whole community told you to go ** yourself, and you say "we push it down your throat anyway, but your feedback is appreciated". Such a hypocrite. CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate.** And a liar.
Hra Neuvosto FinFleet Northern Coalition. 389	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:22:50 - [1695] - Quote Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc Quoting a goodpost.
Axhind Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation 158	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:26:58 - [1696] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Manic Velocity wrote: CCP this is what you're doing to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPwkG2KEBjc First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. You do realise that every single other MMO that introduce the dailies has gone down the drain? There is no example where it turned out good as it's a cheap ass psychological trick that in the end burns out people. You can pull that **** in RL where people have to eat but not in a game that is utterly optional and worst of all, in eve's case, costs 15Gé¼ per month to play. At best, absolutely best case scenario, they will see some increase in activity before the burn outs start outpacing it and crash the activity in the game. The best reading of this situation that I can make is that CCP is aware of how terrible this idea is but they have economic issues and need something to show of quickly. If they actually honestly believe that this is good for the game then it's serious time to start looking for alternatives as it's obvious that there is not much realism left there.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 559	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:52:11 - [1697] - Quote Axhind wrote: Quote: First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. You do realise that every single other MMO that introduce the dailies has gone down the drain? There is no example where it turned out good as it's a cheap ass psychological trick that in the end burns out people. You can pull that ** in RL where people have to eat but not in a game that is utterly optional and worst of all, in eve's case, costs 15Gé¼ per month to play. At best, absolutely best case scenario, they will see some increase in activity before the burn outs start outpacing it and crash the activity in the game. The best reading of this situation that I can make is that CCP is aware of how terrible this idea is but they have economic issues and need something to show of quickly. If they actually honestly believe that this is good for the game then it's serious time to start looking for alternatives as it's obvious that there is not much realism left there. Ofc I realise that. I did dailies in WOW. At some point I stopped with thought "What am I doing with my life"? I don't need that ***** mount I have dozens of them and using maybe 2...Then I seek for game without such things. I like sandbox and space, landed here. Now I feel like the sand in this sandbox is full of someone urine... People will fall into this. People always fall for sweet candies, but it ends with tooth decay. Do you think EvE playerbase is better than rest MMOs playerbases? Wrong. others about this "feature": Jonny Pew about dailies Neville about dailies "(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)" "Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
Roro Zoro The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:53:01 - [1698] - Quote Are there really people who are against this because they see EVE as a game that "everyone does progress equally"? That died with the skill injectors, now someone can drop 100$ and get a 5m skillpoint character day one. Or can farm isk 8 hours per day and buy millions of SP per month. 300k sp per month is like 600-700m isk per month, so its like 23m isk per day for killing a rat. They could give isk and it would be the same actually. The rewards is quite beefy, its true. I do get that daily "quests" feel like a chore though, but the "equal progress" argument is invalid.
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.15 10:57:48 - [1699] - Quote elitatwo wrote: Erihn Sabrovich wrote: Dailies will only be felt as an obligation to people who take the game too seriously... Come on, if you don't stress on having these SP so much (normal training is not stopped), you'll do the daily when you've time... and don't care about them if you've something more interresting to do IRL... You do not seem to quite comprehend what is happening. Let me elaborate. (...) Noobies complain about "veterans" because we have read a book called Engineering from cover to cover and they didn't. That is like complaining about a teacher that knows all the answers to a surprise math quiz in 7th grade. All those poor students will "NEVARRhhh" catch up to that teacher, best to make a government issued training program for babies, so they don't have to "endure" that horrible lifetime experience on their own. Well, the dream of any GOOD teacher is to have their student reach the level where they are... Maybe not while they are taking lessons with them but after that, through higher studies or what they'll learn while working... (and yes, I'm a teacher... so I know what I'l talking about here ;-) )
Ria Nieyli 43591	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:06:41 - [1700] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: We are taking your feedback seriously and if we don't make any changes before release we will absolutely be following up shortly after release with changes based on feedback and behavior. Mate, are you out of your bloody mind? This is garbage reasoning, you know very well that people will start participating in the opportunity once it gets released because not doing so is too punishing, yet you're going to take that as a metric of the feature being successful? "slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"

Imigo Montoya Delusions of Adequacy Get Off My Lawn 130	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:09:41 - [1701] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: First off all CCP wants to earn. For them more logins means more potential money. They are doing this game for some time now. It never attracted crowds. So they will implement mechnisms from other MMOs that will keep people to log on and maybe bring some new. PCU will grow, vets will leave, CCP will make money. More subscriptions or more PLEX means more money. The measurement of daily logins is only a simple to obtain metric that hints towards part of the health of the game. The problem with only using simple metrics is that they can easily be manipulated or misleading. As an example, one way to increase ARPDAU (Average Revenue pre Daily Active User) in a F2P game is to stop allowing non-paying players log in (I've literally seen this happen). This simple action can make ARPDAU go through the roof, but obviously it will mean that there won't be many people playing the game any more so the paying players won't be as enticed any more. Doing something like that in EVE Online where the players ARE the content can be incredibly detrimental to the game's overall health. Implementing a change in order to make one metric look better can have unintended consequences that destroy the game by discouraging the core players who are the bread and butter customers. The Star Wars: Galaxies NPE is a classic example. EVE players want meaningful and engaging choices in the emergent sandbox, not operant conditioning.
Demica Diaz SE-1 306	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:12:19 - [1702] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: Are there really people who are against this because they see EVE as a game that "everyone does progress equally"? That died with the skill injectors, now someone can drop 100$ and get a 5m skillpoint character day one. Or can farm isk 8 hours per day and buy millions of SP per month. 300k sp per month is like 600-700m isk per month, so its like 23m isk per day for killing a rat. They could give isk and it would be the same actually. The rewards is quite beefy, its true. I do get that daily "quests" feel like a chore though, but the "equal progress" argument is invalid. I dont belive that majority who are against this daily quest feature is because skillpoint advantage or anything to do with skillpoint gain/loss. Many many have experienced daily quests in other mmos first hand and they know from experience what kind of cancer that is. Smart players know that daily quests is just machanic to exploit human nature and I am sickened that CCP is adding that feature while opening this topic just to pretend that they are listening. Lets face it, daily cancer is coming to EVE no matter what. For first time ever I spit on you CCP... and I never would have belived I would say that, ever.
Skia Aumer Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC Desman Alliance 257	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:19:48 - [1703] - Quote Roro Zoro wrote: Are there really people who are against this because they see EVE as a game that "everyone does progress equally"? That died with the skill injectors Absolutely. They are ruining the game, one feature at a time. And every time they use this excuse like yours. "We made some creepy sucker punch, but the sky didn't fall. Let's do it again!" But finally, a straw will break the camel's back.
Marox Calendale Human League Eleven Signs Network 76	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:28:47 - [1704] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: Hi I'm here to give you guys a heads up that sometime early next week a small daily activity reward feature will be hitting Singularity and will hopefully be making its way to TQ sometime just after Citadel. As you guys surely know, having people in game and in space is great and we want to start promoting and rewarding activity a little more directly. The version of the feature we are planning to deploy first will be a simple 10,000 skill point reward that a character will receive the first time they kill an NPC ship every 22 hours (limited one character per account per day, chosen based on which character completes the task first). The skillpoints will go into your unallocated pool to be used however you like. You will find the status of your daily skill boost in the Opportunities info panel and you will also receive notifications to let you know when it becomes available. That's it for now. If this goes well we hope to expand in several ways, but more on that later! Feedback appreciate as always, CCP Rise for Team Size Matters Responding to feedback While I like the idea of this new feature I think 10.000 SP are way too much. Compared to normal skill training with optimal attributes it is like an additional 4 hours boost every day for just shooting 1 NPC! I think 1 hour so about 2.500 SP should be enough.
Lan Wang Knights of the Posing Meat FETID 2714	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:30:59 - [1705] - Quote PAPULA wrote: So what's the difference in doing missions for SP every 20 hours ? and doing missions and getting isk then with that isk buying SP's ? i see the same thing. We already have 3 months missions, they're called "ark missions" So for ark missions we have to log in every 3 months ? because you dont have to do missions to buy sp , you have to do missions to do extra sp, is it really that difficult to see your comparisons as 2 completely different things? FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations \| lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
baltec1 Bat Country Pandemic Legion 17599	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:34:42 - [1706] - Quote Anize Oramara wrote: So you're saying his personal experience and reasons for doing something is... not true? What? Nobody ever lies on the internet.
Jeremiah Saken The Fall of Leviathan 560	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:39:19 - [1707] - Quote Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. And a liar. I told you guys it won't end with SP trading... That Rise sentence shows how valuable is our feedback and their promises. "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate."- CCP Rise on SP trading. Dailies for SP soon...
Erihn Sabrovich 10	Posted - 2016.04.15 11:56:53 - [1708] - Quote Jeremiah Saken wrote: Skia Aumer wrote: CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. And a liar. I told you guys it won't end with SP trading... That Rise sentence shows how valuable is our feedback and their promises. CCP has to care about ALL OF ITS CUSTOMERS, not only about the older one... They look at stats and comments from ALL players and ponder the whole thing. They could have ended with decaying SP (after X time without connexion, you'd start to lose SP) but they didn't... They were even going to give the same amount of SP to every players and not a decreasing return like you can see with injectors.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 32	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:01:28 - [1709] - Quote CCP Rise wrote: ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. I am SORRY to say this, CCP Rise. But you really are a LIAR.
Aydan Talvanen Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects 32	Posted - 2016.04.15 12:02:27 - [1710] - Quote Also this: "ItGÇÖs very important to note here that this means all the skillpoints available to buy on the market in EVE will have originated on other characters where they were trained at the normal rate. Player driven economies are key to EVE design and we want you to decide the value of traded skillpoints while we make sure there is one single mechanism that brings new skillpoints in to the system GÇô training." https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/



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