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Ukachaka U	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:31:00 - [1411] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia some mumbling U madz bro?
Romale Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:33:00 - [1412] Edited by: Romale on 23/04/2010 22:34:31 Edited by: Romale on 23/04/2010 22:33:34 Originally by: POKETMACTEP Originally by: Boomershoot I Wonder if they even bother making a non-cyrillic version now. Originally by: Romale its funny you consider the pl trolling racist when its pretty clear that the ones being racist here is the russian community from eve-ru (the ones posting in the monkey thread anyway) Can you point to One, just, ONE, bot, that have russian (well, Cyrillic interface)? I lame with google, but can found 10+ english/latin bot macro, and fail to find "russian" one. Look like most of the bots used by ? speaking users. Who is "trolling racist" here, without any ground? P.S. sorry, i am wrong, racism and troll do not need any ground. nope, but i read the original thread where the guy on eve-ru admitted he was botting. In my comments anyway i stopped calling russians botters russian botters, as i felt that was an unfair depiction of russian people, i know plenty of russians who are great American Citizens and deserve to be proud of their russian heritage. So my understanding of how the russian botting community works is their implementation of communism on eve where some poor bastards slave away botting isk all day and through a high tax rate they pay for others to buy ships and pvp. Pretty typical communism exploiting the workers really. As such i felt bolsheviks was the best term to describe the community of slavic people who automatically jumped to the aid of a guy who admitting botting, believing his word when he provided no proof and onslaught the eve-online community with its propaganda and lies. All because you felt a russian was being wronged. you did it based on race, no other reason. you wouldn't of done the same for a native french speaker or native german speaker. Infact the way you have treated monkeysphere honestly reminds of the histories of the ****'s painting on jewish businesses based on race. In this case its not that monkeysphere is jewish, its that he's not russian. Just my opinion anyway
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:36:00 - [1413] Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia EXCEPT, now it appears that the exploit is only possible when the victim himself is using an exploit making the very knowledge of which indicative of guilt making PL the guilty party! Except that it seems to affect players AT THE KEYBOARD as well. I'd take Pandemic Legion's claims that it's only possible on macros with a grain of salt. The fact they've spent much effort trying to derail this thread should be enough to question their sincerity on the issue. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:38:00 - [1414] Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/04/2010 22:40:17 Originally by: Douglass Bryant My question is, what makes this attack so effective? There are an awful lot of players in the game and by sheer statistics if this was via simple game mechanics you would expect a higher percentage of players to have either used it or heard of it. I've learned to expect LESS from most people in this game. If anything were to support my argument, its this thread directly. Originally by: Douglass Bryant The argument that revealing the attack ruins it does have some merit Yes Originally by: Douglass Bryant I suppose, but ultimately from here on out every time PL or Monkey make a kill people will call out exploit. I think i speak for all of when i say "Ok" Originally by: Douglass Bryant It would be infinitely easier to take the wind out of this threadnought's sails by simply explaining how .... I'm actually enjoying watching all the madness that mob mentality brings with it. You can, if you step back and read BOTH threads, watch it spread like wildfire, till the "undisclosed sources" created the hack on the russian forums, where it goes off to a fever pitch. Evidence, the thread by angel citing monkey's now obviously false ban, the GM said one simple sentence, to quote it loosely, that discussing GM actions against players is illegal, and look what the players took from that, and did with that sentence. It was actually sited as evidence, as obscure a reference as it was, that the russian community is right and we are liars. One line, by a GM, was used to fuel wild speculation for about 3 or 4 hours on 2 forums. Its an amazing social event to be witnessed if you ask me. Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia EXCEPT, now it appears that the exploit is only possible when the victim himself is using an exploit making the very knowledge of which indicative of guilt making PL the guilty party! Except that it seems to affect players AT THE KEYBOARD as well. I'd take Pandemic Legion's claims that it's only possible on macros with a grain of salt. The fact they've spent much effort trying to derail this thread should be enough to question their sincerity on the issue. Also, i said ANY player, bot or real
Ukachaka U	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:41:00 - [1415] Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:41:18 Originally by: Grath Telkin <skipped> Stop crying for a moment and tell us what will you do when monkey will be banned?
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:41:00 - [1416] Originally by: Ranka Mei Doesn't matter; even if it were true, creating an exploit to counter yet another exploit is still a bannable exploit! It all needs to stop. Originally by: Ukachaka U Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia some mumbling U madz bro? Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Except that it seems to affect players AT THE KEYBOARD as well. I'd take Pandemic Legion's claims that it's only possible on macros with a grain of salt. The fact they've spent much effort trying to derail this thread should be enough to question their sincerity on the issue. none of you bother ducking, that joke was safely WAY over your head u should knee jerk some more "A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game."
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:46:00 - [1417] Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/04/2010 22:47:10 Originally by: Ukachaka U Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:41:18 Originally by: Grath Telkin <skipped> Stop crying for a moment and tell us what will you do when monkey will be banned? Go kill russian carriers in plex's cause your all really bad at this game? PS- thanks for the helpful fuel for getting rid of broken local intel gathering tools though, I had about given up on it ever happening.
Ukachaka U	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:54:00 - [1418] Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:54:17 Originally by: Pr1ncess Alia none of you bother ducking, that joke was safely WAY over your head u should knee jerk some more Patient, please, don't be nervous. Take your medicine and go to bed. Originally by: Grath Telkin Edited by: Grath Telkin on 23/04/2010 22:47:10 Originally by: Ukachaka U Edited by: Ukachaka U on 23/04/2010 22:41:18 Originally by: Grath Telkin <skipped> Stop crying for a moment and tell us what will you do when monkey will be banned? Go kill russian carriers in plex's cause your all really bad at this game? So you have some new exploits or..?
Metal Dude Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:19:00 - [1419] Edited by: Metal Dude on 23/04/2010 23:22:00 The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job. The truth will set you free
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:25:00 - [1420] Originally by: Metal Dude Edited by: Metal Dude on 23/04/2010 23:22:00 The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job. I honestly didn't know you had it in you man. Shedding a little tear right now.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:25:00 - [1421] Originally by: Metal Dude The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job. I'm going to guess you typed this angrily. I think we should ban everyone. Everyone in this thread too. E v e r y o n e "A game that is significantly nonlinear is sometimes described as being open-ended or a sandbox, and is characterized by there being no "right way" of playing the game."
Romale Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:26:00 - [1422] Originally by: Metal Dude Edited by: Metal Dude on 23/04/2010 23:22:00 The question is not "IF" PL exploited. I think everyone knows that they did. The question is how did PL come up with the exploit, which of PL devs told them how to use it and what is CCP going to do about it? ALL of the guilty parties should be perma banned; ALL the people that are on kill mails and in gangs while the exploit was being used and the CCP devs guilty of reveling the exploit should be reprimanded, not like the T20 who was slapped on the wrist while the rest of his alliance was forever stained by his actions. What will it take to get that accomplished? CSM, do your job. actually for this one we had to go through alot of internal ccp emails to find out how to expoit local. you have no idea how much bs they mail back n forth thankfully hewhoshallremaneunamed and a few of our other players have created an algorithm and basically use google cloud to parse through everything for us until we find something we can use. Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client
Ash2h	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:32:00 - [1423] Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:34:42 Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:32:38 Originally by: Romale Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client Suddenly! Most Russians use English client :) P.S. botmasters use only english client, never heard bout exceptions
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:43:00 - [1424] Quote: Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital? - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Jeremey Glittering Dust	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:46:00 - [1425] PANDEMIC LEGION We just wanted to troll that we're exploiters, but suddenly convinced everyone in this.
Ash2h	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:54:00 - [1426] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital? Coz they are regular and can't autospam direct scan every 20ms and react. Stop be fat troll and read thread from the start.
Capt Fossil Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.23 23:57:00 - [1427] Originally by: Ash2h Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:34:42 Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:32:38 Originally by: Romale Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client Suddenly! Most Russians use English client :) P.S. botmasters use only english client, never heard bout exceptions I do not know what happened with Monkeysphere and others. I am not affiliated with Pandemic Legion, don't even know anybody in that bunch. I have NEVER used a macro, cheat or exploit. That said..... botmasters...you mean cheaters don't you? You mean you are aware, know people who use macro's/bots AGAINST THE EULA and you don't report them? You should be banned NOW just for admitting that.
Snot Shot Minmatar Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:00:00 - [1428] How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now... HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! His assests and large transactions should be seized and all accounts banned!! This is no different than the Ferrogel issue and parties involved should get the same treatment. . Just Sayin.... Dr. Shot BAM!! HEAD SHOT!!!
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:00:00 - [1429] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital? Bots don't usually file petitions. :) Bots don't look out their window, suddenly and mysteriously seeing Monkeyman materialize without warp; nor do bots generally get ticked-off about it. That's where all of this went awry: the Monkster started killing 'real' people instead of macros; maybe by accident; maybe he got overconfident; only he knows. As for not using a scanner, I dunno, maybe they were watching local carefully, hoping the game would be played without cheats? -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture!
Ash2h	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:05:00 - [1430] Edited by: Ash2h on 24/04/2010 00:06:38 Originally by: Capt Fossil That said..... botmasters...you mean cheaters don't you? You mean you are aware, know people who use macro's/bots AGAINST THE EULA and you don't report them? You should be banned NOW just for admitting that. OMG. U never heard bout ppl who get profit working ingame? U never met places, where they talk bout it? U sure playing MMOs for short period. I've started 1993 in Diku1, but still playing. So maybe thats the reason, why i know something about this activity. If u really so bright in being paladin, go to one of botter forums and try to report all of them to CCP. Good luck. I don't wanna play this forum troll game. Back to eve game.
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:06:00 - [1431] Originally by: Snot Shot How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Snots accounts for life? Snots use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his posting stats show a tremendous spike in posts like he has been doing till now... HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! His assests and large transactions should be seized and all accounts banned!! This is no different than the Ferrogel issue and parties involved should get the same treatment. . Totally agree. Also, Jeremy, don't hold back man, sperge all the craziness your posting in message 2508 on the RU forums
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:10:00 - [1432] Originally by: Snot Shot How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now... HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! Quoted for truth. A simple statistical analysis (heck, just a glance suffices, really) should, at the very least, raise some immediate red flags over at those investigating. -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture!
Ash2h	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:15:00 - [1433] Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: Snot Shot How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now... HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! Quoted for truth. A simple statistical analysis (heck, just a glance suffices, really) should, at the very least, raise some immediate red flags over at those investigating. Are you sure anyone was watching chat logs? According to latest information chat joining is not even logged on server side, at least not in way you can compare it with system entrance. So ask another question, does exploit revealing helps this watch-dog, or not?
Ranka Mei Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:26:00 - [1434] Originally by: Ash2h Are you sure anyone was watching chat logs? According to latest information chat joining is not even logged on server side, at least not in way you can compare it with system entrance. So ask another question, does exploit revealing helps this watch-dog, or not? Chat server, far as I know, uses simple IRC protocol. Joining a channel will have a server timestamp, no doubt. So, even if chat server is setup independently from the main EVE server, it should be a breeze for a dev to do some basic comparing. -- Gorgeous, delicious, deculture!
Ash2h	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:32:00 - [1435] Edited by: Ash2h on 24/04/2010 00:33:58 Originally by: Ranka Mei Originally by: Ash2h Are you sure anyone was watching chat logs? According to latest information chat joining is not even logged on server side, at least not in way you can compare it with system entrance. So ask another question, does exploit revealing helps this watch-dog, or not? Chat server, far as I know, uses simple IRC protocol. Joining a channel will have a server timestamp, no doubt. So, even if chat server is setup independently from the main EVE server, it should be a breeze for a dev to do some basic comparing. I hope so. Few (not less than 10) reports was closed with "Logs show nothing". Maybe after this thread, detailed investigation will change situation. Anyway, I already said, I don't care about Monkeyman or PL using exploit or not. I don't even want any bans. Just fix confirmed exploit and look into some others we expect to be used.
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:40:00 - [1436] Originally by: Ash2h I don't even want any bans. Just fix confirmed exploit and look into some others we expect to be used. Agreed, it's far too risky to start our macros before going to work in the morning. Put an end to this cheating! I need my isk, dammit! Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
Ash2h	Posted - 2010.04.24 00:47:00 - [1437] Originally by: Gunnanmon Originally by: Ash2h I don't even want any bans. Just fix confirmed exploit and look into some others we expect to be used. Agreed, it's far too risky to start our macros before going to work in the morning. Put an end to this cheating! I need my isk, dammit! Yeah! We all play balalaika with our pocket bears in Soviet Russia. Poor me being in Russia (joke). BTW Im in the same country as Monkeyman and someone in this thread said poor Monkey found bug coz slow internet. 10mb connection is common here, 100mb costs not so much and starting to be popular. Google Estonia.
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.24 01:11:00 - [1438] I saw it with my own eyes (through the zander on alt) when huhuhu's ibis jumped into Keberz local from HED-GP and was flying around us while not being in local (multiple intances). I also saw with my own eyes when "Sisi Test" (whoever controls that, probably ccp) showed up on HED-GP on the Keberz gate grid while only me, Stormwolke and El were in local (Storm was in grid with me and saw it too), waiting for huhu to come for the scheduled proof op. Interestingly enough, while fraps were recording, The monkeysphere came into the chat channel for who knows what reason. I SAW THE PROOF OF CONCEPT WITH MY OWN EYES! I am not a bot! I have never used a bot and I HATE macros! I have screen shots to prove what I saw. The screen shots in sequential order with time stamps showing DS with the ships, with local open, with the chat open is UNDENIABLE proof that this exploit works with REAL PLAYERS and for all intents and purposes could be used by anyone on TQ. I have googled Abuser's chat from 2 years ago that identified the eve vulnerabilities and urged CCP to do something about them. Obviously these vulnerabilities have been known for at least 2 years. If you take all of Pandemic Legion's Trolling in here with bull**** excuses and fail posts with their alts you can see the pattern of obfuscation. Why would they do this? Why not just explain this "super strategy" so everyone can reproduce it and prove they are not cheaters? It is obvious there is no such strategy. If you have ever ratted or done PVE in lowsec/nullsec you will understand the importance of spamming DS when there is a neutral/pirate in system and you would ALSO understand that when system is empty you don't use DS. No one in their right mind will rat in a belt while there are neutrals in system, and if you are in a Complex, you keep your scanner open with tabs unchecked looking for probes. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be caught in PVE if you have any clue about what you are doing. You can catch macros in 0.0 by using logonskys and warp spheres that is true but it is also very time consuming, as any experienced macro hunter attests. So now these PL cheaters claim these strategies work with real players. They are all lying. If you examine monkey's KB, that alone is evidence of wrong doing. Being able to move through system while not being in local is a great advantage where they can warp to their victims who are unaware of any threats, so they are not spamming DS or warping to a POS/safe. Suddenly a recon uncloaks or warps in (testimonials claim they just APPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE, which brings attention to further exploiting) and tackles their ratting ship and there is nothing they can do against 2 recons and a Mach. So, there is testimonial evidence by dozens of REAL PEOPLE witness to these events. There are hundreds more KMs from bots who got caught. There is UNDENIABLE proof of this exploit. There is a guy with KB stats where he has impossible feats of hunting nullsec ratters, both real people and macros (lets not be naive most of his victims were bots). There is evidence of vulnerabilities that could allow hackers to warp to cloaked people, to fake info packets between client and servers. There is recorded evidence of PL people attempting to obfuscate the truth. In any real world court of law all this evidence would land all these people in jail. There is no doubt monkey and accomplices have been exploiting the game for a long time. Since most of his victims were also exploiters (macroers) it took this long for attention and evidence to be gathered. CCP already has all it needs to fix the vulnerabilities and ban to hell all the exploiters involved. I hope they find a way to also catch all macroers and ban all their accounts too. Burn Everything!
kaisersauzee Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.04.24 01:12:00 - [1439] Originally by: Ranka Mei Edited by: Ranka Mei on 23/04/2010 22:15:41 Originally by: Boomershoot Originally by: Douglass Bryant My question is, what makes this attack so effective? They're directed against simple algorithms. What a lovely story: poor Monkeyman was just finding a clever way to take advantage of the (faulty) way bots operate. Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS reported Monekeydude being absent in local, suddenly appearing out of thin air, within impossible timeframes. What, Monkey used an "I-win" tactic 'directed against simple algorithms' on these normal players too? That's a neat trick! I have to hand it to you guys, your talent for obfuscation is near miraculous! :) Those the REGULAR players that only lose a ship because of a omglagsplat?
Grath Telkin Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.24 01:19:00 - [1440] Edited by: Grath Telkin on 24/04/2010 01:19:24 Originally by: Neo Gabriel Why not just explain this "super strategy" so everyone can reproduce it and prove they are not cheaters? You should have left this part out.

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