So risk free, high profit is best for the game?

You don't fit MLU's into PvP ships. You fit Gyrostabilizers/TE's. And Nanos.

You balance Tank with Yield and Cargo - just as combat ships balance Tank with Speed and Firepower.

Gank ships are effective because they pile everything onto Firepower - to the exclusion of almost everything else, simply because Tank and Speed are useless vs the godlike CONCORD. Combat ships do not get to pick all three (unless they are Minmatar).

When a miner gets to pick all three - its no longer balanced. Except this is worse: you aren't even picking them with mods and rigs - they are being handed to you right off of the factory floor.

My reaction when I find miners learning and 'doing it right' is actually quite positive. It means they are playing the game smart and I respect that.

If they warp out. I don't get mad. I think, 'Great - they were paying attention - good for them."
When I find a Hulk, clad in a DCII, MSEII and Shield Rigs - I don't cry about it - I respect it, and go looking for another target. (and there is ALWAYS another target....)

I just don't understand why as a group, why these 'intelligent' miners are such an extreme minority.

Is it just blind 'Goon hatred?'
Or are these people who lost an Exhumer 3 weeks ago (or 2 years ago in the case of Krixtal Icefluxor) - and rather than learn from it, they just get mad and lose sight of the forest for the trees?

What I find tasty is the hypocrisy exposed

a tornado is a pretty expensive way to kill a hulk

it seems that you're angry because hulks are able to die in hisec???????

The day every null sec player is not aloud by any means starting by NPC or Alt corporations to have full industrial organisations in high sec, mission corporations, shipping corporations, trading alts, High sec research/invention POS's and more funky stuff, then yep it will be time to change high sec.
But as far as every major null alliance has hundreds/thousands of those in high sec and don't stop crying about high sec they will always be laughed at for not being serious for one second.

The best thing about the barge/exhumer changes is that low end minerals are going to be hilariously low meaning for hilariously cheap supers.

I can't ******* wait :3

GǪwhich are a response to the Gǣbut it's meaningless, they'll bring moreGǥ argument.

When people tell miners to adapt or quit, it's because there are ways of adapting. The miners generally refuse to and instead argue about cost and other irrelevancies.

Nothing show your claiming is true, what is true on the other hand is that now you will be able to mine in low/null and have enough tank so your friends come help you, this is good for the game.

Now you need REAL organisations and EFFORT to achieve the same ganking, leading to more ships destroyed witch is also good for the game.

Well when you tell gankers to adapt or quit, it's because there are ways of adapting. The gankers generally refuse to and instead argue about cost (of bringing *1* more catalyst for 1 hulk) and other irrelevancies.

We should argue about the cost of supercaps .... at least that makes them rare compared to untanked.badly tanked hulks...

Incorrect.

FYP

Had it been incorrect they'd not change the mining ships.

yeah but at least your mining bots can operate in peace :shobon:

You mean the GÇ£adapt or gtfoGÇ¥ dribble now coming from the exact class of people who could never adapt and who had to be helped by CCP to no longer be idiots? The dribble directed at those who have proven time and a gain that they can adapt just fine?

... which is a wrong adding to a wrong. Does not make it a right.

Well when you tell gankers to adapt or quit, it's because there are ways of adapting.

Had it been incorrect they'd not change the mining ships.

No, because the DCU does not enable fitting shield mods to get to those conservative 30k EHP.

Then harden up and adapt.

Nothing show your claiming is true, what is true on the other hand is that now you will be able to mine in low/null and have enough tank so your friends come help you, this is good for the game.

Now you need REAL organisations and EFFORT to achieve the same ganking, leading to more ships destroyed witch is also good for the game.

As you can see, there's no problem, just cry babies tears by millions of M3

but not unfairly expensive..considering the price of the target. Belly up to the bar if you want to drink otherwise move on.

An untanked T1 battle crusier will have nearly double the tank of an untanked T2 hulk... seems fine to me.

No, because the DCU does not enable fitting shield mods to get to those conservative 30k EHP. The MAPC does.

No.
Far more sturdier ships than these are lost already because the difference in rules means that the friends will not get there in timeGǪ

Now you need REAL organisations and EFFORT to achieve the same ganking, leading to more ships destroyed witch is also good for the game.

don't try and argue the point with them, they just keep coming up with the same crap.

Bot argument is a false argument and goes against and makes fools of gankers rather than suit their arguments.

Because you are too stupid to fit a proper tank on your barge.

True for the Hulk, but not all of the Exhumers. One of the goals of the re-balance is to make ships within a group all have a well-defined role.

Just adding some grid and cpu to all of them would not solve their lack of individual roles.

No. It's a right correcting a wrong, making it right.

Fallacy. It can be (and is) just as correct anyway, especially if the decision behind the change is driven by a fundamentally flawed and disproven balancing concept.

GǪexcept, of course, that 30k EHP isn't the qualifier for Gǣnot sucking ballsGǥ. The DCII is quite sufficient, and an MAPC isn't needed.

So you agree that the barge EHP changes are completely unnecessary then. Good. A but confusing given your previous statements, but still good.

yeah nobody bots in hisec

What about considering these mining barges changes as the beginning of industry changes, just a step. New changes will hit over time like ring mining so yes these ships will be used lore in those regions.

Yep was about high sec just forgot to mention it, sry. And yes it's already the case for some gank activities, not in what concerns mining barges

Bot argument

This is good for the game!!!!


But only if there are more reasons for people to be out in low and null. Mining, missioning, whatever. If everyone is generating income behind Concord, this game doesn't happen. I'm just worried, with what I understand of CCP's track record, that even if this is their vision (Which would be a good vision) it will take 2 + years to get there...