i am going to ask again because i didn't got a answer yet
WHY AREN'T PEOPLE ALLOWED TO AFK MINE IF THEY WANT? You goons and other nullsec idiots have your AFK moongoo , so that shouldn't be allowed if you continue with your logic

Imposing large punitive costs removes a large % of players from the 'ganker' pool.
Forcing gankers exclusively into large groups of destroyers, cuts down on variety and leads to boring tactics, as well as cutting out those players in odd time zones, or those without a large alliance to back them up.

Errr, you realize that he didn't 'abandon' his wreck, right?

Now I'm pretty sure you are nowhere near 'this' level of play, either.

You seem to think ganking should only be the province of the idle rich, as if they were out on a pheasant hunt or an exotic safari.

I, being a man of the people....believe that the young, the up and coming, should be encouraged to partake in our noble cause....

Imposing large punitive costs removes a large % of players from the 'ganker' pool.
Forcing gankers exclusively into large groups of destroyers, cuts down on variety and leads to boring tactics, as well as cutting out those players in odd time zones, or those without a large alliance to back them up.

And the insipid requirement that gankers lose more than the target?

1. Gankers will jump at a chance to gank for a profit.
2. And they will often accept a personal loss if they have an opportunity to inflict disproportionate damage to the victim.

But they almost NEVER gank when the 'cost to gank' is higher than the total value of the target.

Thats why you don't see people ganking, say - Bantams or Retrievers with Tornados.
Its just stupid to waste a 70-100M ISK ship to kill something that costs a mere fraction of that.

Just as it would be stupid to gank a 120M ISK Skiff with 10 Tornados, or a 180M ISK Mackinaw with 5 or 6?

And because gankers are not irrational, these types of ganks do not and will not happen, except in the most exceedingly rare of cases. Its the same reason that people rarely gank Orcas - the effort costs more than the reward - or even the loss to the victim....

i am going to ask again because i didn't got a answer yet
WHY AREN'T PEOPLE ALLOWED TO AFK MINE IF THEY WANT? You goons and other nullsec idiots have your AFK moongoo , so that shouldn't be allowed if you continue with your logic

i am going to ask again because i didn't got a answer yet
WHY AREN'T PEOPLE ALLOWED TO AFK MINE IF THEY WANT? You goons and other nullsec idiots have your AFK moongoo , so that shouldn't be allowed if you continue with your logic

We could call it natural selection, right?
EVE Online is a MMO, not a singleplayer Call of Duty copy.
Get your ganker friends and gank in groups. That's how this game is played in nullsec. Teamwork.

Wow! Nearly 50 pages now of the same arguments being repeated over and over and over and over and over.........

I actually read through about 30 pages before I got bored reading the same basic moans and groans, just rephrased in a colorful rainbow of wording. The whining flows heavily in this thread from both industrialists and gankers alike, although (and I'm personally not suprised) more so from the ganker side.

But what really tickles me reading through this drudge is when I hear gankers arguing over the numbers game in terms of costs. I mean, lets be real here and admit. Most of those who gank mining ships are not doing it for the easy isk (which it definitely is). No, most of them are doing it purely for the "tears". I mean, lets look at the very name of the corp for the OP. Ahh the shear irony of someone part of a corp focused on collecting tears and yet coming to the forums shedding his own. The changes haven't even been implemented yet and what? Business already so slow you gotta make and collect your own??

Then I 'lol'd at the people who claim that miners have been crying and CCP is "stooping down" to give them a buff. How many times have we heard nullsec pvpers (and yeah, I am one) complain that this or that needs to be buffed or nerfed. Or throw in faction warfare. Or throw in war decs. I say cheers to the miners for finally getting a bit of attention from CCP.

What I also think is comical about most people in this thread is that they claim you should fit a hulk for tanking in High Sec. That people shouldn't be capable of AFK mining. I say until CCP makes mining more interesting (and even the pvpers admit mining is incredibly boring though I doubt many of them have done it for more then perhaps 30mins), can you REALLY blame them for doing it at least semi-afk?? I've mined ore and i'm generally thinking. "omg....I'm so bored! Please ganker shoot me so I can have an excuse to end my miserable existance!" And then I tried mining ice....I think that's when i thankfully learned what ctrl-q (or I guess alt-shft-q now) really did!

So again, I tip my hat to you full time miners in finally getting some much needed love from CCP. In my opinion, it's not really that much but it's certainly well deserved attention. And gankers, before you kill that miner, which I'm sure you'll do even after the changes, be sure to thank that miner for supplying the materials to build that very same ship your about to kill him with.

You don't understand moon mining at all if you think it's effortless income.

moongoo botters

it is effortless once you own the system only thing you need to do is set up a pos start the proces after that it is only a question of refueling and empty the storage bins so don't give me that crap that moongoo is hard work and involves hours upon hours of boring yourself to death watching the lights on your pos
well i am pretty pissed off at any of your nullsec wankers , death sick of your comments how people should play your game all the while you cry and whine about anything that has the remote chance of pulling down your own little carebear sandcastle

i sat down and looked at some other ships that are of prices comparable to hulks, let's start

a Vigilant costs about the same as a Hulk in Jita and it has more base HP, but inferior resists (being a faction ship) and at all level Vs, unfit, it has 11k EHP. fit for its most common role, dealing HAC-like damage with dual 90% webs, it will only have 20k EHP. a brick tanked heavy tackle fit would increase its EHP to 63k, but it gives up a substantial amount of DPS. also, with dual fed navy webs, its cost goes up to ~400m. add a faction point (which is not uncommon in these ships) and you're looking at close to 500M.

a Devoter isn't much cheaper than a Hulk (difference is like 20M in Jita) and it only has a few thousand more EHP unfit, although this is due to its resist bonus - which is necessary, considering that it tends to be the primary especially when supers are on the field. fit for its primary role, being a brick tanked bubbler, it can field a massive tank - 215k EHP with Damnation bonuses. it also tends to have an entire blob of ships shooting at it.

both of these ships are used in combat and the vigilant's tanking abilities aren't terribly impressive even compared to a hulk. oh and they're generally not AFK in a belt and they're not that great for making ISK.

The entire point is that miners haven't done anything to earn this buff. As I said earlier an appropriate buff would be purely to the fitting stats of the ships, not their EHP. Buffing the fitting stats would allow them to fit a respectable tank without too much sacrifice to yield, but no, we can't even help miners help themselves, we have to do everything for them!

you not ganking retrievers and bantams because you know you NOT going to hurt the other player or that the victim is a new player and you might get accused of harrassing new players
Your opinion about ganking has nothing to do about profit , only hurting people and if you can hurt them in their RL pockets aswell even better ,
Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with ganking nor do i or most of the players do not want a risk highsec , but people like you are getting me pissed off IT IS NOT YOUR BLOODY GAME , game belongs to CCP and when CCP decides to change something you don't like well deal with it get over it , there has been several changes in the past i didn't like , but i am still here
deal with it and stop crying

The entire point is that miners haven't done anything to earn this buff. As I said earlier an appropriate buff would be purely to the fitting stats of the ships, not their EHP. Buffing the fitting stats would allow them to fit a respectable tank without too much sacrifice to yield, but no, we can't even help miners help themselves, we have to do everything for them!

you should ask Pandemic Legion about owning systems that they run moon mining towers in

it is effortless once you own the system only thing you need to do is set up a pos start the proces after that it is only a question of refueling and empty the storage bins so don't give me that crap that moongoo is hard work and involves hours upon hours of boring yourself to death watching the lights on your pos
well i am pretty pissed off at any of your nullsec wankers , death sick of your comments how people should play your game all the while you cry and whine about anything that has the remote chance of pulling down your own little carebear sandcastle

The hard work of Moon Goo is fighting to keep it.

Not really. Few thousand supercaps / moon should do the trick.

the problem is that in the past, hulkageddons generally involved "more expensive" ships like brutixes, discophoons, torp ravens, armageddons and domis, which were insured so the ganker would only really bear a 10-20m loss

then the nth nerf to all risk in hisec took away insurance for concord kills (since publords need to be safe while botting or being AFK) and people started using the newly buffed destroyers and tier 3 battlecruisers

and now, the n+1st nerf to all risk in hisec is vastly increasing the hitpoints on all barges

and soon, the n+2nd nerf to all risk in hisec will ensure that no freighter is worth ganking because looting it will allow everyone in the game, most of whom had no stake in either the defense or attack on that freighter, to shoot you

and the n+3rd nerf will probably equalize concord response times throughout all of hisec, so a 1.0 rookie system is no safer than a 0.5

let's see

crimewatch, which will prevent you from ganking a freighter or an officer-fit faction battleship because otherwise looting it means that anyone can shoot you and bring all the neutral RR they want and you can't shoot at their RR

this unnecessary change catering to afk miners who feel entitled to profit while only alt-tabbing from their movie to move ore to their orcas

yeah, welcome to a risk-free hisec. a new game enhancement - err, experience!

Insurance fraud was taken away not because of hi sec kills but because, like boomerang, it started being used in an heavily mass, industrialized way. You can find on MD the guy (Cosmoray) who made 100B+ by manufacturing thousands of battleships and exploding them.

He started a trend, with a NPC endless ISK faucet, he posted about it and how to do it and then nobody would stop what was basically legal ISK duping. CCP intervened and removed it.

Same for boomerang, for years it was used with a brain and not spammed on the forums and CCP let it go. Then a very intelligent guy started talking about it on GD and made tutorials so droves of emulators started doing it. CCP intervened and removed it.

Same for orca ships "saving". Once again, tolerated for a long time till somebody "smart" decided to make it very public and spammable by every ganker. CCP intervened and removed it.


Don't blame hi seccer targets for the grave hi seccer gankers dug by themselves.

for one, there's no way of enforcing a "minimum" cost to gank something because if it requires the DPS of, say, a vindicator, you can do it with 6 catalysts which come at a fraction of the cost

however, I do agree that you shouldn't be able to profitably gank, say, a t2 fit exhumer considering that you can't really profitably gank a t2 fit mission boat, but if you're looking at a mackinaw with, say, aoede MLUs and ore strip miners, then there is no way that you shouldn't be able to gank it for a profit because it's blatantly a loot pinata

exhumer ganking wasn't profitable before this, however, because we had to pay out rewards to get dudes to gank exhumers

just like a faction/deadspace fit tengu, just like an officer-fit nightmare coming through a gate

yeah the NC had a ton of supercaps and controlled nearly all of the tech and nobody has been able to challenge them so far

that's why Morsus Mihi, Majesta Empire, Stella Polaris and them still own all of the north

Yes EvE actions will have consequences. How bad, eh?