This thread and arguments is going beyond any possible reason and it's exactly what makes Eve so sad

I'm ok with that, not because I mine (I don't) not because I gank (I actually don't because I don't like it) but because balance is needed and I see no valid reason to keep the nonsense that is actual mining/ganking stupid game, Eve in general has nothing to win with because for a so called "Sand Box" this behavious was nothing else than a mindless mongoloid FPS has absolutely no chance by game design provided the ganker had some brains (and this is the hard part, that's why so many love it so much)

[quote]People 'whining' and 'crying' about them with 'irrational arguments' are whats 'sad'.

They're ALL getting buffed, and RADICALLY so. The question is how to buff them so that they're ALL viable options.

With the changes as currently PROPOSED, the Skiff is entirely worthless, because the Mackinaw is not reasonably gankable (not being reasonably gankable is the Skiff's job). The only way to fix that is to reduce the Mack's PROPOSED tank. Then the Mack becomes worthless because of the Skiff's Ore Hold (having an enormous Ore Hold is the Mack's job). The only way to fix that is to reduce the Skiff's PROPOSED ore hold.

It's not a Nerf if the result is better than the current TQ, unless you've already decided that you're entitled to the SISI stats.

How is the hulk getting buffed? Also what good is a big cargo hold, if you get ganked? Perhaps you should think a bit more. Also how is the nerf to hulk suppose to be helpful, if that gets gank. Lets imagine, I just finished doing one or two cycle, I have to dock now, since CCP nerfed the hulk, then I get ganked and lose it and the cargo. How did CCP buff me?

Lets say I am in a mack, I am half way filling my cargo hold, when I get ganked. How did that big cargo size help me? I lost the money in the bay, as well as the ship. I don't see any buff there.

I don't want to do procurer for you. Not all of us are in PL and don't have to worry about isk anymore.

Counterpoint to your counterpoint: You misspelled "and" as "ans" thus you are an idiot.

Tomorrow when I am sober, I will no longer spell and as ans. You, however, will still use the term corpie.

You may have missed this. http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=28628

CCP Screegs' team ramped up bot Hunting in March 2012

That's all well in good but we haven't had an update on the botting safari in a while. It'd be nice to have some numbers from CCP about the amount banned and what the bots were doing. As well as the amount of characters that are no longer eligible for character transfers because of botting offenses. The proposed changes would be a huge buff to botting/afk mining which is a poke in the eye with a sharp stick to those at the keyboard/nonbotting miners who are trying to get a decent return on their chosen profession.

I don't think they should buff the hull/armor/shield HP at all and should instead mess with the PG/CPU on all of the ships.

Tomorrow when I am sober, I will no longer spell and as ans. You, however, will still use the term corpie.

That makes a lot of "if'

Why CCP Shreegs hasn't come yet laughing and trolling you guys because of this idiot bot argument? -probably because he's still laughing.

Why don't you explain how the bot argument is a bad argument to us all then :allears:. Surely as someone who is an internet security expert you can educate us all in the intricacy of bot enabling buffs.

I guess our arguments against this change aren't "easy mode" enough for the hordes of hisec miners who feel entitled to handed out protection without working one iota for it.

pubbie

I guess our arguments against this change aren't "easy mode" enough for the hordes of hisec miners who feel entitled to handed out protection without working one iota for it.

You're not allowed to use that word.

Sounds like someone can't adapt to having their "easy mode" ganking made "hard mode"..

Not since the days of M0o. You found one example, my corp has over 700 examples of us looting everything including the wreck.

That's made even funnier by the fact that I don't gank.
Seriously, check eve-kill.

Well played, CCP.
Your DEVs/balancing team apparently have the reasoning ability of small children so I'll put this in terms they will understand.

**********
"Once upon a time there were three little miners. They ventured into the big wide world to earn their fortunes.

The First Little Miner went to Jita and fit his Hulk with Cargo Expanders.
This way, he could AFK mine with a minimum of effort and fuss. It left the miner plenty of freetime to daydream, jerk off, and watch Japanese Anime while earning ISK.

....Then along came the Big Bad Ganker in a Catalyst, saying "Little miner, little miner, I'm going to ******* do you in."
The first miner, predictably, was tabbed out and said nothing.
So the Ganker loaded and overheated and blew the Hulk in, and splattered the pod, too.

The Second Little Miner went to Jita, bought MLU's and a hauler.
This way, he could mine faster than anyone else - and become quite wealthy in no time. It was a bit more work, of course, but he kept himself entertained chatting in local with his neighbors.

...Then along came the Big Bad Ganker, in a Tornado, saying "Little miner, little miner, I'm going to ******* do you in."
The second miner, said "Not by the hair of my chinny, chin chin," aligns, and turned on his Small Booster II.
So the Ganker loaded and overheated and blew the Hulk in. The frightened miner flees in his pod, broke, but alive.

The Third Little Miner went to Jita and fit his Hulk with a DCII, MSE, Invulnerability Fields, and Shield Extender Rigs. Wisely, he sets his Hulk to orbit a nearby asteroid, and always kept an wary eye on his surroundings.

...Then along came the Big Bad Ganker, in a T2 Talos, saying "Little miner, little miner, I'm going to ******* do you in."
The Third miner chuckles to himself, overheats his Invulnerability Fields and aligns to the nearest station.
So the Ganker loaded, and overheated, and simply CANNOT blow the Hulk in.

Defeated, the ganker slinks off in his pod, and the smart little Miner scoops the Talos wreckage and sells it for a tidy profit."

THE END
**********

Cargo Hulk, Yield Hulk, Tank Hulk, those were the choices - all with drawbacks.

Cargo - for a Hybrid Exhumer/Hauler, with a risky AFK 'cruise control' option.
Yield - to maximize returns with friends providing transport.
Tank - 30-40K EHP to discourage/thwart gankers.
(and really, one could still put up a reasonable tank on either Cargo or Yield fit Hulks, if they used the mid-slots....)

But choices are dangerous things. Given the choice, miners will take cargo/yield every time - and then throw a tantrum when they are ganked. The rare, clever miner who tanked his Hulk; well, he weathered the storm - and reaped the benefits as mineral prices rose.

But throw that out the window, just give the whining miners all three. Notice how CCP put quite a bit of care into saving miners from their own bad choices.

This is more than a buff - this is CCP acknowledging that miners, as a group, are too stupid to make the correct fitting choices.

Step 1: Idiot miners don't even use the slots they have - so slap stupid amounts of EHP directly to the hull, rather than give them additional slots/PG or CPU. Frigate-size Skiff, Orca EHP. Really?

Step 2: Idiot miners keep sacking their EHP with Cargo Expanders - so make Cargo Expanders pointless with the Ore Bay.
(And I doubt the DEVs will get around to fixing the 'special cargo bays don't drop loot' bug, either - simply because fixing THAT bug would benefit the wrong kinds of players, I suppose.....)

So, good game, CCP.
Good to know we are still steaming, full speed ahead! - towards Hello-Kitty highsec, a paradise for bots and stupidass gameplay. Hard to hear myself say it, but I'm now officially nostalgic for the days of Incarna and WiS development. At least back then, the DEVs were merely wasting their own time.

Exhumers HAD a role... Skiff was for mercoxit, Mackinaw for ice, and Hulk for general purpose mining.
The Hulk can also be tanked sufficiently to discourage ganking as is on Tranquility. They can also do any number of other things to mitigate their risk.

With this change these techniques are pointless and miners are simply safe by default.
How you people manage to believe this isn't dumbing down the game I will never understand.
This change also doesn't make anything more difficult for gankers (merely more expensive) but significantly easier for miners.

Ahh you must be a miner then, otherwise you wouldn't care about this thread and the changes so much?

you mention miners are becoming dumber since its easier now. But then you say its easy to gank other ships, and they will stay easy. So you as a ganker are dumb then? and as well as staying dumb? It will just cost more money, to support your dumbness?

Exhumers HAD a role... Skiff was for mercoxit, Mackinaw for ice, and Hulk for general purpose mining.
The Hulk can also be tanked sufficiently to discourage ganking as is on Tranquility. They can also do any number of other things to mitigate their risk.

With this change these techniques are pointless and miners are simply safe by default.
How you people manage to believe this isn't dumbing down the game I will never understand.
This change also doesn't make anything more difficult for gankers (merely more expensive) but significantly easier for miners.

No need to be an expert to realise a simple buff to some "pixels" will not and suddenly make bots be smarter.
Thinking or pretending the other way around is just being idiot, paranoid, lacking totally of software knowledge (this is harder than be able to count up to 3) and talking out of an hairy pubbie arse.

Since you're such a smart hairy assed pubbie does buffing the most easily botted profession make botting easier or harder? You haven't explained why the bot argument is a bad one yet either internet security expert who graduated from MIT magna *** laude.