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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
758
   |
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:33:00 -
[1981] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation.
It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need. your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.
Tell you what: you provide the car, I'll provide the mallet, and then we'll have ourselves a good old-fashioned scientific experiment.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Halcyon Ingenium
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:36:00 -
[1982] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Asuka Solo wrote:Almost 100 pages of griefer tears.
Awesome. Please point out an example of such tears.
Summary of OP.
They say that in learning the game Go, it is best to lose your first 50 games as soon as possible. This is because Go is complex, and the only way you will start to get an idea of strategy and play is by first sucking and failing as hard as you can. So...In EVE, it is best to get your first 50 deaths by combat as soon as possible. |
Pipa Porto
572
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:39:00 -
[1983] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Octoven wrote:Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself. Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate  try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit? A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation. It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need. your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds.
You're right.
Torpedo Travel time is much less than 30s.
A Nuke's drop time is much less than 30s.
A Sledgehammer will cause Tens of thousands of dollars in Damage in 30s.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
312
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:41:00 -
[1984] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Octoven wrote:Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself. Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit? A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation. It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need. your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds. You're right. Torpedo Travel time is much less than 30s. A Nuke's drop time is much less than 30s. A Sledgehammer will cause Tens of thousands of dollars in Damage in 30s.
thousands of dollars of damage is not destroying some thing. -.-
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Pipa Porto
572
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:43:00 -
[1985] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Dave stark wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Octoven wrote:Ganking for profit lets see how that works, you have one ship topped out at 120 mil taking down a ship valued at 280 mil. The gank pilot makes a profit the miner loses. It goes beyond that though right? The gank toon grabs another nado and repeats the process, meanwhile that miner that just got ganked is busy grinding to replace his ****. Ok, fine he got ganked, miners arent bitching that they are getting ganked, they are bitching because the gankers lose such a small amount compared to the miner himself. Granted, this is eve and dark bullshit is everywhere. However, with changes to barges it will take at least 2 nados if not 3 to drop a barge. Even at 3 that puts ship cost at 270 mil for a 280 mil ship. Sounds like a fair deal to me. High sec isnt a pretty playland where you can comb each other's hair, you can STILL be ganked, its just going to cost you just as much as your costing the miner. If you want to be a pirate try your luck in low sec. In a logical sense, why is it so damn important to gank miners for profit? A 50-dollar steel mallet destroys a $300,000 Ferrari. A 10-million-dollar torpedo boat destroys a billion-dollar cruise ship. A few tens of billions of dollars spent on developing a nuclear weapons program can wipe out a trillion-dollar nation. It's much easier to destroy than to create. Establishing parity between the costs of production and destruction is exactly the thing that an open-ended game like EVE does not need. your analogies are wrong because neither of those things happen in 30 seconds. You're right. Torpedo Travel time is much less than 30s. A Nuke's drop time is much less than 30s. A Sledgehammer will cause Tens of thousands of dollars in Damage in 30s. thousands of dollars of damage is not destroying some thing. -.-
Actually, with the right placement, you can destroy the engine in about 30s with a Sledgehammer. That means it can't drive, which I'd call destroyed.
And again, the Nuke and Torp are much faster than 30s.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
312
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:49:00 -
[1986] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:
Actually, with the right placement, you can destroy the engine in about 30s with a Sledgehammer. That means it can't drive, which I'd call destroyed.
And again, the Nuke and Torp are much faster than 30s.
i lack the care to keep arguing the point, especially when you're comparing an extremely rare out of game situation to a common in game situation.
the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used.
if people can't see why that's an issue that does need addressing then *shrug* i don't know.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1732
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:01:00 -
[1987] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
Actually, with the right placement, you can destroy the engine in about 30s with a Sledgehammer. That means it can't drive, which I'd call destroyed.
And again, the Nuke and Torp are much faster than 30s.
i lack the care to keep arguing the point, especially when you're comparing an extremely rare out of game situation to a common in game situation. the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used. if people can't see why that's an issue that does need addressing then *shrug* i don't know.
Fleet line sheild ships have to give up all their utility slots to survive. Armour tanking cargoships have to give up cargo mods to tank. Sniper ships have togive up their tank ect ect. Miners are far from being alone in making these choices. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
312
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:06:00 -
[1988] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave stark wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
Actually, with the right placement, you can destroy the engine in about 30s with a Sledgehammer. That means it can't drive, which I'd call destroyed.
And again, the Nuke and Torp are much faster than 30s.
i lack the care to keep arguing the point, especially when you're comparing an extremely rare out of game situation to a common in game situation. the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used. if people can't see why that's an issue that does need addressing then *shrug* i don't know. Fleet line sheild ships have to give up all their mids to survive. Armour tanking cargoships have to give up cargo mods to tank. Sniper ships have togive up their tank ect ect. Miners are far from being alone in making these choices.
fleet ships don't give up their damage mods when they fit a tank; miners do because they lack the cpu to fit a shield tank and a rack of mlus.
armour tanking cargo ships are a ******* retared idea and whoever at ccp came up with it need putting out of our misery and are in the same situation as miners except nobody is actively ganking them because when you've got orcas avalable the entire ship type is redundant anyway.
yeah snipers don't have give up their tank; they choose to do it for a bit more range, or a bit more damage. snipers not fitting tanks is akin to miners not fitting tanks. it's not because they can't it's because they choose not to.
i agree miners probably aren't alone in this; however their rebalancing came first so they're getting fixed first. i'm sure ccp will address the same issue with other ships when they get around to rebalacing those ship types.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
759
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:10:00 -
[1989] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used.
DPS is DPS. Shooting a barge with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS is no different than shooting a faction battleship with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS. Both will take the same amount of damage from the Catalyst. The only difference is that the faction battleship pilot is more likely to not be ignorant in relation to the shooty aspects of this game, and fit his ship in a manner than would prevent a single 500 DPS Catalyst from destroying his ship.
Miners have always been able to do this as well; they simply chose not to.
Dave stark wrote:*shrug* i don't know.
That about sums it up.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
312
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:16:00 -
[1990] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Dave stark wrote:the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used. DPS is DPS. Shooting a barge with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS is no different than shooting a faction battleship with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS. Both will take the same amount of damage from the Catalyst. The only difference is that the faction battleship pilot is more likely to not be ignorant in relation to the shooty aspects of this game, and fit his ship in a manner than would prevent a single 500 DPS Catalyst from destroying his ship. Miners have always been able to do this as well; they simply chose not to. Dave stark wrote:*shrug* i don't know. That about sums it up.
no, they won't do 500 dps to both targets because the ships will have different resistances.
not to mention the faction battleship can ignore the catalyst because it has enough ehp that concord will be there before the catalyst can even get through it's shield.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
759
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:19:00 -
[1991] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Dave stark wrote:the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used. DPS is DPS. Shooting a barge with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS is no different than shooting a faction battleship with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS. Both will take the same amount of damage from the Catalyst. The only difference is that the faction battleship pilot is more likely to not be ignorant in relation to the shooty aspects of this game, and fit his ship in a manner than would prevent a single 500 DPS Catalyst from destroying his ship. Miners have always been able to do this as well; they simply chose not to. Dave stark wrote:*shrug* i don't know. That about sums it up. no, they won't do 500 dps to both targets because the ships will have different resistances. not to mention the faction battleship can ignore the catalyst because it has enough ehp that concord will be there before the catalyst can even get through it's shield.
Quoting this just so you can't edit it out later.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
312
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:23:00 -
[1992] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Dave stark wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Dave stark wrote:the simple fact is destroyers are intended to kill frigates that quickly, not cruiser + sized ships that quickly. mining ships can't shoot back and have to give up pretty much everything possible in order to fit a tank. no other ship has to give up so much just so they can be used. DPS is DPS. Shooting a barge with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS is no different than shooting a faction battleship with a Catalyst that does 500 DPS. Both will take the same amount of damage from the Catalyst. The only difference is that the faction battleship pilot is more likely to not be ignorant in relation to the shooty aspects of this game, and fit his ship in a manner than would prevent a single 500 DPS Catalyst from destroying his ship. Miners have always been able to do this as well; they simply chose not to. Dave stark wrote:*shrug* i don't know. That about sums it up. no, they won't do 500 dps to both targets because the ships will have different resistances. not to mention the faction battleship can ignore the catalyst because it has enough ehp that concord will be there before the catalyst can even get through it's shield. Quoting this just so you can't edit it out later.
why would i? nothing i've said is incorrect.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
127
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:24:00 -
[1993] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Miners have always been able to do this as well; they simply chose not to.
WTB Retriever with T2 heavy missile launchers. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1745
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:27:00 -
[1994] - Quote
I wonder what will happen when CCP will proceed with Tiericide rebalancing far more "important" ships like nerfing Drakes, neutering Tengus and whatever easy mode is out there.
Will the forums hold or will they drown in the salty liquids?
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
March rabbit
R.I.P. Legion
Red Alliance
218
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:31:00 -
[1995] - Quote
posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners"
completely new theme!  |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
759
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:31:00 -
[1996] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Miners have always been able to do this as well; they simply chose not to. WTB Retriever with T2 heavy missile launchers.
I'd like capital artillery on my Machariel as well.Of course, that will never happen, but my point remains that all ships capable of fitting modules can trade off role efficiency for defense.
March rabbit wrote:posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners" This is completely new theme!
We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones.
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
2530
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:35:00 -
[1997] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I wonder what will happen when CCP will proceed with Tiericide rebalancing far more "important" ships like nerfing Drakes, neutering Tengus and whatever easy mode is out there.
Will the forums hold or will they drown in the salty liquids?
There will be tears, but I'm not sure how much or what kind. The planned drake change looks like a welcome buff to me and CCP said they want all T3s to be more like the Tengu, so it'll propably end up being mostly a buff too. If things go as planned, most of those tears are going to be tears of happiness. |
March rabbit
R.I.P. Legion
Red Alliance
218
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:44:00 -
[1998] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:March rabbit wrote:posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners" This is completely new theme! We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones.
there is nothing to be proud of when you CANNOT something. Only ability to do something makes you respected by others. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
759
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:59:00 -
[1999] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:March rabbit wrote:posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners" This is completely new theme! We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones. there is nothing to be proud of when you CANNOT something. Only ability to do something makes you respected by others.
Should I not be proud of my inability to hate people of a specific race, or my inability to kill a person in cold blood for no specific reason? How about my inability to be a child molester?
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
314
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:02:00 -
[2000] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:March rabbit wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:March rabbit wrote:posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners" This is completely new theme! We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones. there is nothing to be proud of when you CANNOT something. Only ability to do something makes you respected by others. Should I not be proud of my inability to hate people of a specific race, or my inability to kill a person in cold blood for no specific reason? How about my inability to be a child molester?
it's more commendable to be able to do some thing bad, and choose not to do it rather than not doing it because you can't.
Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:07:00 -
[2001] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones.
"Miners are stupid because they fit strip miners instead of 48000mm artillery"
Tell us how you can do it then we probably fit our mining ships like that. |
Patrakele
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
72
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:07:00 -
[2002] - Quote
Love this thread. I bought extra tanks just to store the tears for later. Scrooge had a pool made out of money, I'll have a pool made out of tears. |
The D1ngo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
36
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:07:00 -
[2003] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:March rabbit wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:March rabbit wrote:posting in 100500th thread: "i hate miners" This is completely new theme! We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones. there is nothing to be proud of when you CANNOT something. Only ability to do something makes you respected by others. Should I not be proud of my inability to hate people of a specific race, or my inability to kill a person in cold blood for no specific reason? How about my inability to be a child molester?
Noob!
|
Pipa Porto
573
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:16:00 -
[2004] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:We don't hate miners; we simply can't bring ourselves to sympathize with the stupid ones. "Miners are stupid because they fit strip miners instead of 48000mm artillery" Tell us how you can do it then we probably fit our mining ships like that.
No, Miners are stupid because they cba to fit a dang tank or fly their ships to avoid ganks.
Even if it were true that they can't fit enough tank to survive a profitable gank in .5 (it's not), there's no reason they can't head to safer space where the cost to gank them hovers around the cost of the ship.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:23:00 -
[2005] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:No, Miners are stupid because they cba to fit a dang tank or fly their ships to avoid ganks.
Even if it were true that they can't fit enough tank to survive a profitable gank in .5 (it's not), there's no reason they can't head to safer space where the cost to gank them hovers around the cost of the ship.
Answer the question.
Do you actually think 20 T2 fit Catalysts is neede in 1.0 space?
How do you fit turrets/launcher to mining barges/exhumers? |
Pipa Porto
573
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:31:00 -
[2006] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:No, Miners are stupid because they cba to fit a dang tank or fly their ships to avoid ganks.
Even if it were true that they can't fit enough tank to survive a profitable gank in .5 (it's not), there's no reason they can't head to safer space where the cost to gank them hovers around the cost of the ship. Answer the question. Do you actually think 20 T2 fit Catalysts is needed in 1.0 space? How do you fit turrets/launcher to mining barges/exhumers?
Where did I say you could? Where did anyone say you could. The only reason you think someone said that is because you never learned how to figure out antecedents.
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:33:00 -
[2007] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Where did I say you could? Where did anyone say you could. The only reason you think someone said that is because you never learned how to figure out antecedents.
Ever heard of "the best defense is a good offense"? |
Pipa Porto
573
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:34:00 -
[2008] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Where did I say you could? Where did anyone say you could. The only reason you think someone said that is because you never learned how to figure out antecedents. Ever heard of "the best defense is a good offense"?
Yep. Ever heard of "safety in numbers"?
EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
128
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:43:00 -
[2009] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Ever heard of "safety in numbers"?
Ever heard of "more dps in groups"? |
Hypercake Mix
Magical Rainbow Bakery
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:44:00 -
[2010] - Quote
'Grats everyone on this thread making it past 100 pages!
I doubt new miners find out that they need a 30k+ EHP tank until they're deep into mining skills first. In-game tutorials and such really only tell them about belt rats, which hit as hard as kittens. Even when they do find out, they have a whole week of buying and training skills before they can actually fit a decent tank. They're sure to hear about the amazing mining yield of the Hulk before hearing about needing that tank too.
Oh, did we all somehow overlook that fitting a tank involves awareness of needing said tank and requires points in fitting and tanking skills?
Sigh. I remember back when you needed to **** someone off to get ganked.
Then again, this is EVE. What they don't know powers our one-button bacon machines.
With the barge changes, I guess Mining can stay in the list of beginner career choices. |
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