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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1758
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Posted - 2012.07.31 08:22:00 -
[2431] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ah, in that case ignore VV since VV only mines once a year for lulz.
The Hulk's ore bay only needs to be large enough for three cycles worth of ore from a max-bonused strip miner. Maybe four if the pilot is staggering lasers to buy time for a sandwich-making trip to the kitchen.
Why more than 1? It's meant to run with hauler support. Either have it in the belt with you or accept the risk that comes with jet cans.
Because the hauler needs continuously to run off and unload?
Try yourself managing 3 Hulks and 1 indy or something (it IS a fleet already, not everyone have 2 Orcas for your fantasy world theorycraft). The indy gets continuously full, the Hulks won't be synchronized in their cycles (maybe if you bot? But we are not catering to botters right?) so you'll always end with an Hulk at half cycle one at 2/3 and the Hauler has to go dump.
Jet can mining is a crutch "invented" by players, CCP did not even mean it. Making a whole ship line rely on a crutch that make them less efficient than AFK other ships is a nonsense.
Hulk has to have enough room to grant uninterrupted operation in mining fleets, not all mining fleets have super duper support. AFK ships don't need any fleet, don't have any micromanagement endurance and they don't need to suffer any interruption.
The end result is making AFK ships very competitive just because of the pointless burden imposed on the supposed min max one. It's pointless because emptying every short time does not make you a better player.
It just makes you a better bot customer. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Shalua Rui
FEROX AQUILA
23
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Posted - 2012.07.31 08:30:00 -
[2432] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Jet can mining is a crutch "invented" by players, CCP did not even mean it.
1000x this... people seam to forget that all the time.
But I have to say... the "new" Hulk IS desinged to work in large/well outfitted mining fleets now... in conjunction with Orcas or Porqs. For everything else, there are the other ships now. |
Pipa Porto
588
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Posted - 2012.07.31 08:31:00 -
[2433] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ah, in that case ignore VV since VV only mines once a year for lulz.
The Hulk's ore bay only needs to be large enough for three cycles worth of ore from a max-bonused strip miner. Maybe four if the pilot is staggering lasers to buy time for a sandwich-making trip to the kitchen.
Why more than 1? It's meant to run with hauler support. Either have it in the belt with you or accept the risk that comes with jet cans. Because the hauler needs continuously to run off and unload? Try yourself managing 3 Hulks and 1 indy or something (it IS a fleet already, not everyone have 2 Orcas for your fantasy world theorycraft). The indy gets continuously full, the Hulks won't be synchronized in their cycles (maybe if you bot? But we are not catering to botters right?) so you'll always end with an Hulk at half cycle one at 2/3 and the Hauler has to go dump. Jet can mining is a crutch "invented" by players, CCP did not even mean it. Making a whole ship line rely on a crutch that make them less efficient than AFK other ships is a nonsense. Hulk has to have enough room to grant uninterrupted operation in mining fleets, not all mining fleets have super duper support. AFK ships don't need any fleet, don't have any micromanagement endurance and they don't need to suffer any interruption. The end result is making AFK ships very competitive just because of the pointless burden imposed on the supposed min max one. It's pointless because emptying every short time does not make you a better player. It just makes you a better bot customer.
If you don't have enough hauler support for the size of your fleet, the Mackinaw is > Thataway.
And Jetcan mining's been around forever, intended or not. In this case, you're using it as a small buffer during the short time your Itty is hauling. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1758
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 08:36:00 -
[2434] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote: If you don't have enough hauler support for the size of your fleet, the Mackinaw is > Thataway.
And Jetcan mining's been around forever, intended or not. In this case, you're using it as a small buffer during the short time your Itty is hauling.
Forgot you are the god of game balance (in this and other threads) and all MUST play your way or ====> Thatway. Sandbox as long as you decide the walls placement, the sand to use and what tools to hand out, eh?
No dear all you get is people switching to Macks (and then you'll cry again because Macks are harder to kill) except botters.
Botters can put a bot performing stupidly repetitive, frequent menial tasks, the others will indeed switch to something else.
And the next day you'll be here breaking everybody's balls because now all use hard and unprofitable ships to kill AND still get a competitive yield.
Also if I was cheap like you, about the 60 pages or so of pure savage crying about ships being buffed, I'd remind you that the lead developer said the official CCP position on this and he IS entitled to do so.
Why don't you take your own advice if you don't like it and go play =========> Thatway some other game?
You don't take your own advice? Well, so won't I. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1672
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:08:00 -
[2435] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:i've said it before and i'll say it again; if you want to go afk do other things, fly a mackinaw not a hulk.
Or a cloaky ship which you can park in someone else's industrial system 24/7.
Or a Retribution which you just use for structure bashing.
If you want people to be tied to the computer while their account is logged in, go play some other game.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ethereal Dawn
76
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:11:00 -
[2436] - Quote
As long as the hulk can tank nullsec BS belt rats still, dont think many are going to be that bothered by changes to hulks other than HS miners at risk from gankers (read afk doing xyz irl while hulk cycles strips) on the surface of it they could do with tinkering again with the cargo hold in the case of increasing it slightly so that it can fit 3 of each diff crystal type in there, some people go out mining with crystals for all ore types depending on what/where their mining, increasing the specialty ore hold to 8k wouldn't be a bad idea either, cause looking at the current changes they've taken the current hulk hold of 8k m3 and split it into 500 m3 cargo bay and 7.5k m3 ore hold. as for hs vs LS/Null mining you CAN NOT afford to go afk in ls or null, if you do, well expect to wake up in your medi clone frequently :)
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1672
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:12:00 -
[2437] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:Why more than 1? It's meant to run with hauler support. Either have it in the belt with you or accept the risk that comes with jet cans.
More than 1 because the Hulk has 3 strip miners and I don't want to be continually dragging one cycle of ore to the Orca's corp hangar every minute. That's far too much attention to a task which takes my mouse away from the "warp the hell out of here" button . 6000m3 is a decent size. People with ultimately maxed out yield can learn to stagger their strip miners. Being required to stagger strip miners because the ore bay isn't even big enough for min yield Strip Miner Is cycling simultaneously would be a pain in the neck.
Of course, I would very happily trade a 5% yield bonus for a 5% cycle time bonus. Change the Mining Foreman Mindlink from a 15% yield to a 5% cycle time on all mining lasers and I'd be a happy miner.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
321
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 12:31:00 -
[2438] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:i've said it before and i'll say it again; if you want to go afk do other things, fly a mackinaw not a hulk. Or a cloaky ship which you can park in someone else's industrial system 24/7. Or a Retribution which you just use for structure bashing. If you want people to be tied to the computer while their account is logged in, go play some other game.
exactly there's a ship to let you go afk. the mackinaw is that ship not the hulk. deal with it. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
321
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 12:36:00 -
[2439] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Why more than 1? It's meant to run with hauler support. Either have it in the belt with you or accept the risk that comes with jet cans. More than 1 because the Hulk has 3 strip miners and I don't want to be continually dragging one cycle of ore to the Orca's corp hangar every minute. That's far too much attention to a task which takes my mouse away from the "warp the hell out of here" button . 6000m3 is a decent size. People with ultimately maxed out yield can learn to stagger their strip miners. Being required to stagger strip miners because the ore bay isn't even big enough for min yield Strip Miner Is cycling simultaneously would be a pain in the neck. Of course, I would very happily trade a 5% yield bonus for a 5% cycle time bonus. Change the Mining Foreman Mindlink from a 15% yield to a 5% cycle time on all mining lasers and I'd be a happy miner.
you won't be dragging every min, you'll be dragging every ~2 mins depending on if you're in a fleet with an orca and a rorq. even then the difference in time isn't that substantial.
currently you're only going to go over 6k m3 / cycle if you're perfect skilled with a +5 implant... do yourself a favour and get a +3 and 6k cargo is more than sufficient if you don't want staggered strips [not that i'm having a go, just an observation] and yes, i agree having to stagger strips would be a pain. hardly maxing yield if you're sitting there with inactive strips because you can't just warp in to a belt and turn them on.
trading yield for cycle time will never happen. fixed cycles and variable m3 vs variable cycles vs fixed yield is the defining factor between ore and ice mining respectively. inb4 orca links; mining foreman skill/implant. there are bonuses to yield and cycle times, except yield doesn't affect ice mining.
to be honest the new hulk is fine aside from the 350 cargo needs to go back to 500 like the covetor and all is good, imo. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Blastcaps Madullier
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ethereal Dawn
76
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:39:00 -
[2440] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Why more than 1? It's meant to run with hauler support. Either have it in the belt with you or accept the risk that comes with jet cans. More than 1 because the Hulk has 3 strip miners and I don't want to be continually dragging one cycle of ore to the Orca's corp hangar every minute. That's far too much attention to a task which takes my mouse away from the "warp the hell out of here" button . 6000m3 is a decent size. People with ultimately maxed out yield can learn to stagger their strip miners. Being required to stagger strip miners because the ore bay isn't even big enough for min yield Strip Miner Is cycling simultaneously would be a pain in the neck. Of course, I would very happily trade a 5% yield bonus for a 5% cycle time bonus. Change the Mining Foreman Mindlink from a 15% yield to a 5% cycle time on all mining lasers and I'd be a happy miner. you won't be dragging every min, you'll be dragging every ~2 mins depending on if you're in a fleet with an orca and a rorq. even then the difference in time isn't that substantial. currently you're only going to go over 6k m3 / cycle if you're perfect skilled with a +5 implant... do yourself a favour and get a +3 and 6k cargo is more than sufficient if you don't want staggered strips [not that i'm having a go, just an observation] and yes, i agree having to stagger strips would be a pain. hardly maxing yield if you're sitting there with inactive strips because you can't just warp in to a belt and turn them on. trading yield for cycle time will never happen. fixed cycles and variable m3 vs variable cycles vs fixed yield is the defining factor between ore and ice mining respectively. inb4 orca links; mining foreman skill/implant. there are bonuses to yield and cycle times, except yield doesn't affect ice mining. to be honest the new hulk is fine aside from the 350 cargo needs to go back to 500 like the covetor and all is good, imo.
Really hope your joking on the 350m3 cargo hold thats smaller than a SBs cargo hold, think CCP needs to add a specialty crystal hold in that case on the hulks for holding crystals. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
1759
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:50:00 -
[2441] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Really hope your joking on the 350m3 cargo hold thats smaller than a SBs cargo hold, think CCP needs to add a specialty crystal hold in that case on the hulks for holding crystals.
Thats more than enough to hold crystals, if you want more just get the hauler to shuttle some more out to you. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
325
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:59:00 -
[2442] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:Really hope your joking on the 350m3 cargo hold thats smaller than a SBs cargo hold, think CCP needs to add a specialty crystal hold in that case on the hulks for holding crystals.
i really hope you're joking. yes lets add a whole new, and pointless bay when you can just change 350 to 500 on 1 ship's stats in order to solve the problem. a number that shouldn't have been changed from 500 to begin with, especially since they didn't add that space to the ore bay.
also stealth bombers have nothing to do with this, besides they have 1 bomb launcher to load not 3, if you're trying to draw the worst parallel in the world between strip miners and bomb launchers. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
325
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:00:00 -
[2443] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Really hope your joking on the 350m3 cargo hold thats smaller than a SBs cargo hold, think CCP needs to add a specialty crystal hold in that case on the hulks for holding crystals.
Thats more than enough to hold crystals, if you want more just get the hauler to shuttle some more out to you.
and which other subcap needs 2 accounts to work properly? in fact; think of it as rhetoric i don't want your answer. it'll just be stupid. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1759
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:06:00 -
[2444] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Really hope your joking on the 350m3 cargo hold thats smaller than a SBs cargo hold, think CCP needs to add a specialty crystal hold in that case on the hulks for holding crystals.
Thats more than enough to hold crystals, if you want more just get the hauler to shuttle some more out to you. and which other subcap needs 2 accounts to work properly? in fact; think of it as rhetoric i don't want your answer. it'll just be stupid.
Because its so hard to warp to a station and grab more crystals every so often. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
326
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:14:00 -
[2445] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave stark wrote:baltec1 wrote:Blastcaps Madullier wrote:
Really hope your joking on the 350m3 cargo hold thats smaller than a SBs cargo hold, think CCP needs to add a specialty crystal hold in that case on the hulks for holding crystals.
Thats more than enough to hold crystals, if you want more just get the hauler to shuttle some more out to you. and which other subcap needs 2 accounts to work properly? in fact; think of it as rhetoric i don't want your answer. it'll just be stupid. Because its so hard to warp to a station and grab more crystals every so often. defeats the entire purpose of the ship's role. if i wanted to warp back and forth i'd get in a mackinaw and just go afk. until my 30 min alarm goes off.
infact, if the 3% -> 5% yield modifier happens then i might actually accept this almost stupid answer because it'd be an absolute mining behemoth and the yield bonus would make up for the inconvenience. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
88
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:18:00 -
[2446] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:defeats the entire purpose of the ship's role. if i wanted to warp back and forth i'd get in a mackinaw and just go afk. until my 30 min alarm goes off.
So use a Mackinaw.
I'll quote something I read earlier: "THE HULK IS NOT THE BEST MINING SHIP ANYMORE"
Use the proper ship for the proper job, tiercide is in effect, don't use a screw driver to hammer a nail.
If you can't deal with the limited space, use a different ship, simple as that. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1759
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:19:00 -
[2447] - Quote
Dave stark wrote: defeats the entire purpose of the ship's role. if i wanted to warp back and forth i'd get in a mackinaw and just go afk. until my 30 min alarm goes off.
infact, if the 3% -> 5% yield modifier happens then i might actually accept this almost stupid answer because it'd be an absolute mining behemoth and the yield bonus would make up for the inconvenience.
You will be docking a lot more to empty your hold on all the barges than needing to swarp crystals so just pick up more then. This really isnt an issue for solo or group play. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
326
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:21:00 -
[2448] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Dave stark wrote:defeats the entire purpose of the ship's role. if i wanted to warp back and forth i'd get in a mackinaw and just go afk. until my 30 min alarm goes off. So use a Mackinaw. I'll quote something I read earlier: "THE HULK IS NOT THE BEST MINING SHIP ANYMORE" Use the proper ship for the proper job, teircide is in effect, don't use a screw driver to hammer a nail. If you can't deal with the limited space, use a different ship, simple as that.
teircide isn't in effect at all, using the proper ship for the job would be using the hulk, however if the hulk isn't going to produce the goods because of bad design and the answer is "use the mack" which has more ehp, cargo, and yield due to less time wasted on bad design then....
we're simply handing the mackinaw the crown that the hulk currently wears and rebalancing hasn't balanced anything it's just crowned a new king of everything. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
326
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:22:00 -
[2449] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dave stark wrote: defeats the entire purpose of the ship's role. if i wanted to warp back and forth i'd get in a mackinaw and just go afk. until my 30 min alarm goes off.
infact, if the 3% -> 5% yield modifier happens then i might actually accept this almost stupid answer because it'd be an absolute mining behemoth and the yield bonus would make up for the inconvenience.
You will be docking a lot more to empty your hold on all the barges than needing to swarp crystals so just pick up more then. This really isnt an issue for solo or group play.
you won't be docking more at all; you'll just be jetcanning, like you always were. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
baltec1
Bat Country
1759
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:25:00 -
[2450] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:
you won't be docking more at all; you'll just be jetcanning, like you always were.
Well then thats your choice if you want to jetcan solo. If you really want you can fit cargo expanders to hold more crystals. |
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Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
88
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:26:00 -
[2451] - Quote
Dave stark wrote: teircide isn't in effect at all, using the proper ship for the job would be using the hulk, however if the hulk isn't going to produce the goods because of bad design and the answer is "use the mack" which has more ehp, cargo, and yield due to less time wasted on bad design then....
we're simply handing the mackinaw the crown that the hulk currently wears and rebalancing hasn't balanced anything it's just crowned a new king of everything.
The Hulk will work fine, like someone else mentioned, store your crystals in the orca or a hauling ship. You don't need 1000m3 or even 500m3 worth of space to hold crystals.
Hell even 150m3 is perfectly fine for a mining op, pick which type of rock you are going to mine, equip your 3 crystals, put 3 backup crystals in your cargo, and start mining.
Edit: CCP Goliath just replied over in the other thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1725209#post1725209 |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
326
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:32:00 -
[2452] - Quote
good stuff.
i have a feeling the 350m3 ore bay is a mistake. my evidence is that A) the cov still has 500m3 ore bay, and B) the hulk still has 7500m3 ore bay.
then again if both the rumoured yield increase and my prediction about the cargo being a mistake happen in tomorrow's sisi update the hulk will be where it needs to be without encroaching on any of the other exhumer's role.
however i would like them to take a peek at the retriever vs mackinaw. the difference in ore bay is quite insubstantial. when going from the procurer to the skiff, or covetor to the hulk they feel like sizable upgrades for their intended role; the mack doesn't since it has less than 1 cycle of ore's space of space over the retriever. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1760
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:45:00 -
[2453] - Quote
Blastcaps Madullier wrote:As long as the hulk can tank nullsec BS belt rats still, dont think many are going to be that bothered by changes to hulks other than HS miners at risk from gankers (read afk doing xyz irl while hulk cycles strips) on the surface of it they could do with tinkering again with the cargo hold in the case of increasing it slightly so that it can fit 3 of each diff crystal type in there, some people go out mining with crystals for all ore types depending on what/where their mining, increasing the specialty ore hold to 8k wouldn't be a bad idea either, cause looking at the current changes they've taken the current hulk hold of 8k m3 and split it into 500 m3 cargo bay and 7.5k m3 ore hold. as for hs vs LS/Null mining you CAN NOT afford to go afk in ls or null, if you do, well expect to wake up in your medi clone frequently :)
For what I have seen, from the most dangerous to the least:
- You absolutely cannot go AFK in WHs, expecially if you didn't "seal" them first.
- You can afk for 2-3 minutes in low sec "out of the way" systems if you are in voice comm fleet, just turn up the volume to hear possible warnings, 3-5 minutes in "home system" when it's actively sealed by corp mates. Better if inbound WHs were sealed or are camped.
- You can afk for 3-4 minutes in NPC nullsec if you are in voice comm fleet, just turn up the volume to hear possible warnings. Bubbles at gate give a little of room. Better if inbound WHs are sealed / camped, this happens more often as your own corp mates will go inside to find PvP or a short route back to low sec.
- You can afk for 5-10 minutes in important sov nullsec systems if you are in voice comm fleet, it's worse for out of the way systems (unchecked inbound WHs, more unchecked if you are in a renter corp) and in "conduits" between multiple clusters where you may get get neuts roams.
- You can afk for about 20 minutes in hi sec out of the way systems or even in "hot" systems (ice mining) during low population times of the day / outside week ends and outside of Hulkageddon (which now is permanent...). If you are in hot systems or week ends then 10 minutes tops would be better. If there are reds (identified gankers) then you can't go afk at all. If the reds are organized gankers you are better to dock / log off as even being ATK they are smart enough to catch you at first mistake, they can catch you at gates (use tanked Orca to get out with ships), they WILL kill tanked exhumers as they have no "I must make a profit on all ganks" issues. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1760
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:48:00 -
[2454] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:i've said it before and i'll say it again; if you want to go afk do other things, fly a mackinaw not a hulk. Or a cloaky ship which you can park in someone else's industrial system 24/7. Or a Retribution which you just use for structure bashing. If you want people to be tied to the computer while their account is logged in, go play some other game. exactly there's a ship to let you go afk. the mackinaw is that ship not the hulk. deal with it.
Except the Pro Game Balancers in this thread say Mack is not allowed to be an AFK ship... Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
328
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:49:00 -
[2455] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Dave stark wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:i've said it before and i'll say it again; if you want to go afk do other things, fly a mackinaw not a hulk. Or a cloaky ship which you can park in someone else's industrial system 24/7. Or a Retribution which you just use for structure bashing. If you want people to be tied to the computer while their account is logged in, go play some other game. exactly there's a ship to let you go afk. the mackinaw is that ship not the hulk. deal with it. Except the Pro Game Balancers in this thread say Mack is not allowed to be an AFK ship... then.... what use is it? Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1760
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:52:00 -
[2456] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Dave stark wrote: teircide isn't in effect at all, using the proper ship for the job would be using the hulk, however if the hulk isn't going to produce the goods because of bad design and the answer is "use the mack" which has more ehp, cargo, and yield due to less time wasted on bad design then....
we're simply handing the mackinaw the crown that the hulk currently wears and rebalancing hasn't balanced anything it's just crowned a new king of everything.
The Hulk will work fine, like someone else mentioned, store your crystals in the orca or a hauling ship. You don't need 1000m3 or even 500m3 worth of space to hold crystals. Hell even 150m3 is perfectly fine for a mining op, pick which type of rock you are going to mine, equip your 3 crystals, put 3 backup crystals in your cargo, and start mining. Edit: CCP Goliath just replied over in the other thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1725209#post1725209
Are you the new Ruby Porto alt? Only him could justify a larger crystal bay in ships intended to have worse efficiency and less turrets while having it smaller in the top of the line efficiency ship. This not even including the factor that the new ore + hold is now less than the old all purpose hold. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1760
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:00:00 -
[2457] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Dave stark wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Dave stark wrote:i've said it before and i'll say it again; if you want to go afk do other things, fly a mackinaw not a hulk. Or a cloaky ship which you can park in someone else's industrial system 24/7. Or a Retribution which you just use for structure bashing. If you want people to be tied to the computer while their account is logged in, go play some other game. exactly there's a ship to let you go afk. the mackinaw is that ship not the hulk. deal with it. Except the Pro Game Balancers in this thread say Mack is not allowed to be an AFK ship... then.... what use is it?
Don't ask me
Imo Hulk => glass cannon, min maxed if in fleet, should be given a mechanic to let it perform the best, should have the least micromanagement. If it has clunky micromanagement, in order to still be the best with margin enough, then it has to be overbuffed and this is why I'd rather have a little micromanagement Hulk, to keep it "sane". A possible drawback to its superiority could be to give it a well sized crystals hold but it burns crystals faster than the other ships. So you have to factor in fast speed vs higher operation cost and not some dumb time sink that kills efficiency and makes Macks competitive for way less effort and dangers.
Mack => Self sufficient, resilient enough to not get popped by less than 3 catalysts or 1 tornado volley, so not really AFK (can't deal with organized gank corps) but still good and able to get out if not scrambled.
Skiff => Self sufficient, ungankable for a profit, period. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
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Josef Djugashvilis
The Scope Gallente Federation
380
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Posted - 2012.07.31 16:27:00 -
[2458] - Quote
This thread is going down the plug-hole in ever decreasing circles. You want fries with that? |
Pipa Porto
589
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Posted - 2012.07.31 17:10:00 -
[2459] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Forgot you are the god of game balance (in this and other threads) and all MUST play your way or ====> Thatway. Sandbox as long as you decide the walls placement, the sand to use and what tools to hand out, eh?
No dear all you get is people switching to Macks (and then you'll cry again because Macks are harder to kill) except botters.
Botters can put a bot performing stupidly repetitive, frequent menial tasks, the others will indeed switch to something else.
And the next day you'll be here breaking everybody's balls because now all use hard and unprofitable ships to kill AND still get a competitive yield.
Also if I was cheap like you, about the 60 pages or so of pure savage crying about ships being buffed, I'd remind you that the lead developer said the official CCP position on this and he IS entitled to do so.
Why don't you take your own advice if you don't like it and go play =========> Thatway some other game?
You don't take your own advice? Well, so won't I.
Whenever to walls of the sandbox are changing, public commentary is a good thing.
The Hulk is designed to shine when you have an adequate fleet to support it. If you don't have an adequate fleet to support it, of course it's not going to shine. A 20% yield bonus is a pretty strong incentive to form that fleet.
As I've said many times, the new Mack's tank is silly. Because of it, the Skiff is entirely useless.
And Soundwave has been pretty resoundingly mocked by bringing back an idea that the price of a Hull should have something to do with its surviviability (an idea proven to be silly by Supers) and hasn't been back.
You keep coming at this assuming that the goal is to have everyone in Hulks. That's you not understanding tiericide. The Hulk's yield is the reward for doing the groundwork needed to make it efficient. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
470
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Posted - 2012.07.31 17:11:00 -
[2460] - Quote
Another issue that I hope CCP addresses:
Build Cost of the Exhumers!
Used to be a fairly simple progression, at current prices, Skiff, Mack, Hulk, 120M, 180M, 300M. Small Bigger, Biggest. Made sense.
As all 3 Exhumers have had major revisions done. They are now supposed to be roughly 'equivalent', and ALL have received a significant upgrade, build costs should be addressed and updated as well.
Doesn't make sense for the Mackinaw and the Skiff to cost a fraction of a Hulk anymore.
It should be pretty obvious that the new build cost of the Hulk should be slightly increased, and the other Exhumer's costs should be roughly equivalent to that.
I figure, somewhere between 350 and 400M at current mineral/goo prices would be appropriate for all three Exhumers.
The Skiff will never be ganked in the first place, but it simply doesn't really make much sense for the Mackinaw to be 'the equal' of the Hulk, yet cost far, far less.
Hoping Soundwave doesn't over look that detail in the balancing process either.
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