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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:26:00 -
[421]
Now lets focus on the next part
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/ |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:34:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 10/03/2011 12:05:03
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: LHA Tarawa It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
If the iskbank costomers are not breaking any law they are protected by eu law, and it would not be legal for CCP use data given to iskbank without the consent of the comstomer.
Under EU law it's illegal for two companies two share customer data without the customer knowing and agree to this.
Actually, under EU law ISKBank are legally responsible for safeguarding their customer data.
I'm reasonably sure that since they got hacked and non-authorised people had access to the data, then it could be argued that they have failed in that repsonsibility and could be sued.
Is Moldavia in the EU? I must confess I'd assumed that it isn't. If not, then they dont have to care a tinker's cuss about "EU Law". And even if they were in the EU, I doubt IskBank would care anyway. If they got sued, they'd just fold and reform under a new name.
I dont think Iceland is, either, not that CCP are involved in the hacking attempt in any case, so it's irrelevant.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:37:00 -
[423]
Some aspects of this game are starting to stink. I just hope it's not rotten to the core...
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Miss Connolly
Public Relations Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:41:00 -
[424]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
I believe this is not correct. If you know (or can reasonably assume) that the data was gained illeagally then it would not be legal to buy the data. It's the same as if you buy a 1000Ç phone for 50Ç from a junkey on the street. The phone will not belong to you (and the police would take it off you) since you would have difficulties claiming that you didn't know (or could assume) it was stolen. In german I believe we call this "treu und glauben". ___________________ "It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
These are the people you are giving your money to. |
Siamus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:42:00 -
[425]
For those who haven't realised, pretty sure this list is about eve character SELLING isk, not buying it.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:44:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Siamus For those who haven't realised, pretty sure this list is about eve character SELLING isk, not buying it.
The interviews they've published seem to indicate toherwise.
That said, most RMTers will buy ISK in bulk as well as sell it retail.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Siamus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:51:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Siamus on 10/03/2011 12:51:34 Really? Impression I got fro the SHC thread was that it was sellers.
Either way it's a sorry state of affairs :(
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:04:00 -
[428]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 10/03/2011 13:11:00
Originally by: Echo Mae
As the poster directly above you pointed out, CCP can ban you for any reason, or NO reason at all and only because they get a green hair up their bum and decide they don't like you. You agreed to that provision when you agreed to the EULA and logged into the game. Furthermore, you also agreed that any dispute you may HAVE with CCP must be resolved in an Icelandic courtroom, and not in any other country, thus.. you basically, have no legal leg to stand on no matter how hard you try to scream and yell about it. So.. in effect... LOL at your other nations 'laws' and any 'threats' you might make through them.
This simply needs to be repeated for those that missed it...
People need to remember something shocking... there is no Eve. There is no universe where we fly in spaceships and mine asteroids and go "Yar! I'm a pirate!"... it's only data on CCPs computers. They've allowed us to pay to access this data through a proprietary user interface of their design, and they have the full rights by whatever whim or fancy they're feeling to deny any of us access to their data. We're paying them for the ability to modify their data. They can decide for any reason that they don't want any or all of us to do so. It's really that simple. If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it. You have no say. There is no Eve universe, you have no inalienable rights to access their data. You do so on their terms, or gtfo.
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Rguy Amphal
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:05:00 -
[429]
This isn't something new. RMT existed way before this leak, everybody knew it. I don't understand why people are suddenly shocked.
I'd like to see some information about what's CCP doing to fight against bots and RMT. |
Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:12:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Siamus For those who haven't realised, pretty sure this list is about eve character SELLING isk, not buying it.
Reading comprehension FTL.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:49:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:02:00 -
[432]
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use". ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:02:00 -
[433]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 14:03:05
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle
Originally by: Kogh Ayon You can never distinguish drug abuse, but if you stop/slow down to doing so, things will be much worse.
hmmm drug abuser as a synonym for RMT customer...
Friend of mine in EQ2 got banned a couple times for RMT. When he got his final warning about a permaban, he posted on the guild forums about it and mentioned that it was an addiction for him then he promptly cancelled his accounts. Kinda sucked that he had to quit, he was our best dps for raiding. He was spending like $500-$600 a month. So I guess it's is applicable in some cases. He was going to loan me some gold so I could go get my mythical (people would sell raid slots to get your class' mythical weapon). I'm glad I didn't accept the money lol.
He's playing again, but without buying gold. I think he took like 2 years off before coming back. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:09:00 -
[434]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
CCP isn't (or wouldnt' be) breaking any rules, They're simply acting on information received. Besides, it's irrelevant... CCP can do with their system as they see fit. The only rights we have are those given to us by CCP, and what is given can be taken away. We're using their personal private (in the corporate sense) property. They are fully within their rights to use data that was accumulated by a company that has the intent of doing CCP financial harm to purge that harm from their system.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:10:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
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Ozmodan
Minmatar Massively Mob Massively Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:10:00 -
[436]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
Which universe are you living in? The nice thing is that CCP can look at the DB and verify the information, even those deleting the characters can't get away it is all logged to an account. Once the information is verified expect for the hammer to fall. If you are on this list you are in deep doo doo. Learners permit still current |
Remus Andromedus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:16:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Ozmodan
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
Which universe are you living in? The nice thing is that CCP can look at the DB and verify the information, even those deleting the characters can't get away it is all logged to an account. Once the information is verified expect for the hammer to fall. If you are on this list you are in deep doo doo.
He seems a little worried, don't you think?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:17:00 -
[438]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
BS, there is not a single person who said CCP should do that. There are only a few who are white knighting for the ISK buyers (or ISK buyers themselves) who keep claiming that the alternatives are either doing nothing or banning everyone on a list.
Every person here who wants this dealt with wants CCP to use this list to check if people indeed RMT'd and then permaban them.
But considering you just made up that most people are 'nerd raging' that CCP should ban them all without investigation i assume you just make something up next post.
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A Little Girl
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:24:00 -
[439]
The internet spaceship lawyers are frightening me! Stop it!
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:26:00 -
[440]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:29:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Ozmodan Which universe are you living in? The nice thing is that CCP can look at the DB and verify the information, even those deleting the characters can't get away it is all logged to an account. Once the information is verified expect for the hammer to fall. If you are on this list you are in deep doo doo.
That may just be the problem, if it was so easy for CCP to detect RMT using their owne database why have they not acted sooner, why would they even need the iskbank database?
One reason could be it's not easy for them to find the data in their system. I'm more inclined to believe they don't care all that much if people buy isk, they just want people to buy their isk, so they are mostly looking for the people botting, which are the people not on that list.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:33:00 -
[442]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
Actually, they are completely "allowed" to do exactly that. What's going to happen if they do? The Internet Police come and stop them from saying they dont want those customers any more?
But as said 1282 times already, no-one is actually expecting them to do it anyway. Only to use the list as a basis for investigation.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:33:00 -
[443]
Originally by: A Little Girl The internet spaceship lawyers are frightening me! Stop it!
Will somebody please think of the children!!!
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:39:00 -
[444]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:46:00 -
[445]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
Nope. They can use it. They can even use it as reference, check everyon one the list against their own DB and them act on the evidence in their own DB. They can ban everyone on the list simply because they feel like it, as well as every Amarr player that has a hood. They own the data, they can do with it whatever they want. They have access to data now that was created with the intent to harm CCP financially, they can use that information to prevent further harm.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:51:00 -
[446]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
Illegal under what law? I assume you are familiar with Icelandic law that you know of one which forbids this? Can you cite precedent?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:16:00 -
[447]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/03/2011 15:16:50
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle The second one and perhaps slightly less visual thing is that CCP is left out of the loop on RMT.
5,540 PLEX sitting idly just in this RMT shop's hangars - that's 96,900$ for CCP that they didn't have to provide any service for.
At the very least this RMT shop created enough PLEX demand to fund about one CCP employee all by itself (and create up to 2770 legit ISK buyers).
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:35:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Now lets focus on the next part
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
Link corrected.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/10/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
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FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:35:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Malcanis Is Moldavia in the EU? I must confess I'd assumed that it isn't. If not, then they dont have to care a tinker's cuss about "EU Law". And even if they were in the EU, I doubt IskBank would care anyway. If they got sued, they'd just fold and reform under a new name.
I dont think Iceland is, either, not that CCP are involved in the hacking attempt in any case, so it's irrelevant.
Having lived in Moldova, I can tell you that the best way to harm iskbank would be to tip tax authorities how much money iskbank is making. Not that they would be shut down or taxed on income, but most likely they'll have to pay so much in bribes it'll barely be a profitable operation anymore. |
Shalune Regyri
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:57:00 -
[450]
>Knows someone with a *lot* of alt accounts >All with the same last name >Finds someone on that list with that last name.
Why am I not surprised.
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