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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Snuffallahpagus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:22:00 -
[151]
 Originally by: GM Grimmi
At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
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DurrHurrDurr
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:22:00 -
[152]
Edited by: DurrHurrDurr on 09/03/2011 18:22:58
Originally by: Maplestone
So how does an out-of-game transaction manage to outcompete the ingame PLEX market despite all the added risks (both in game and out of game)? If nothing else, this must give CCP a wonderful dataset to analyze the business model of an RMT organization and model the impact of different ways of disrupting them.
The sum of money on the table to be reclaimed from the RMT trader business will easily pay the salary of a full time analyst :)
The most prolific RMT groups are run by people with large arrays of bots. They'll also purchase ISK from players in financial trouble or looking to make a quick buck. They buy it cheap because the seller very rarely has the connections or resources to sell it at a premium price. The buyer then adds it to the pool of collected ISK, through both botting and purchasing, to sell at a markup.
They can outcompete CCP because of the botting faucet; a botting Tengu can cover the cost of a PLEX to keep the account running in roughly four days. Past that, it's all profit.
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Azirapheal
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:24:00 -
[153]
Icarantus$354.92
Icarantus$354.92
Icarantus$351.18
Icarantus$351.18
Icarantus$351.18
Icarantus$338.06
Icarantus$316.07
Icarantus$283.94
Icarantus$243.21
Icarantus$211.56
Icarantus$186.80
Icarantus$181.20
Icarantus$181.20
Icarantus$181.20
Icarantus$179.33
Icarantus$177.46
Icarantus$177.46
Icarantus$177.46
Icarantus$177.46
Icarantus$177.46
Icarantus$175.59
Icarantus$175.59
Icarantus$175.59
Icarantus$175.59
Icarantus$175.59
Icarantus$175.59
Icarantus$173.72
Icarantus$128.14
Icarantus$112.08
Icarantus$99.38
Icarantus$94.82
Icarantus$60.34
wow, just wow.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
I decided to make some kind of deterrant against people casually entering my passage
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Helicity Boson
Amarr
The Python Cartel.
The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:25:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Snuffallahpagus
Originally by: GM Grimmi
At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
I will translate Grimmi's politik-speak for you:
"At this time we cannot comment on why we are wholly ineffectual at fighting botting and RMT, because our meagre salaries are paid for by the subscription and plex income generated by thousands upon thousands of Bot accounts."
I am disappointed, but not surprised.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:30:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 18:31:41
Originally by: Whitehound
What is more concerning is that if CCP is effective in their fight against RMTs then the RMTs could try to fight back by hurting the EVE community and with leaked lists of their customers. In other words, if they (RMTs) cannot make their money then they burn their customers only to take them with them. I doubt there is much moral among RMTs not to do this. I certainly do not wish to be caught in any of it.
So let me get this correct, the thing you are most afraid of right now is that other RMT'ers release their customer data? And I am sure you are going to try to wiggle yourself out of this, but it is really what you are saying. You do not say you are afraid of it because they might add legit players in the list, it is literally that you are afraid they burn their customers.
Good luck getting out of this one, I can give you advice how you could prevent being caught in it, but i think you know where i am heading...
Btw you really dont get it, do you? GMs cannot check every transaction manually. However with char names, dates and IP addresses they can get from evenews they can manually check every transaction of that char arround that time. And look there, he happened to 'scam' a certain char named "jkwFJK347" out of 5B ISK by selling him 1 tritanium. Or he happened to find a golem previously owned by that char floating in space. CCP really should not and does not require more evidence.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:30:00 -
[156]
Originally by: DurrHurrDurr
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: GM Grimmi
We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Sorry Grimmi,
if your so called methods and tools would be of any use these kind of threads wouldnt appear 
And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure 
Also in before Icarantus and KiaDuplex who will tell us the earth is flat.
Bunch of dudes in the NC have received ~warnings~ for confirmed botting, which is funny as hell.
They really don't care; it drives the PLEX market and makes them more money. You guys keep thinking they'll do anything about it. They'll stomp out enough of these RMTers to make a nice devblog about it, calm down the forum uproar, and then ignore it for another year until you peasants need to be calmed down again.
If botting has no consequeses at all why are there alot of WI. / RZR on the buyers list, I thought the NC is rich as f u c k 
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:33:00 -
[157]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: DurrHurrDurr
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: GM Grimmi
We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Sorry Grimmi,
if your so called methods and tools would be of any use these kind of threads wouldnt appear
And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure
Also in before Icarantus and KiaDuplex who will tell us the earth is flat.
Bunch of dudes in the NC have received ~warnings~ for confirmed botting, which is funny as hell.
They really don't care; it drives the PLEX market and makes them more money. You guys keep thinking they'll do anything about it. They'll stomp out enough of these RMTers to make a nice devblog about it, calm down the forum uproar, and then ignore it for another year until you peasants need to be calmed down again.
If botting has no consequeses at all why are there alot of WI. / RZR on the buyers list, I thought the NC is rich as f u c k
Because tbh they are idiots. Everyone who RMTs is an idiot. And not just because they cheat, but if you want a relative small and fast injection of ISK a plex is way easier, if you want more you buy botting software and you use that considering CCP cares a bit about RMT and nothing about botting.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:36:00 -
[158]
everyone who spent >$1k
KiaDuplex 6787.94
Icarantus 6675.27
commander chielzzz 2930.60
Darth Shaddo 2820.91
Knotte 2435.24
Inkazi 2421.52
see below notes 2221.45
HDMIm8 2013.31
MurphysLaw1 1668.38
Trevana 1631.57
Mat Rix 1548.67
Cooyaw 1527.37
gogetting 1470.90
Ragnar Sinned 1373.13
gazenth 1332.62
Kasaga 1273.72
xCryptor 1266.71
Blooberty 1266.36
Ian Cole 1247.66
Darth Andar 1228.26
jonas6000 1207.91
Zeftan 1199.94
RyanAndrew 1110.99
Luci3 1088.30
Alestra Mosvani 1030.03
notare 1020.06
Thryson 1008.79
pleomaxx 1002.75
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:38:00 -
[159]
So I crunched the numbers and was surprised to discover that the only people playing EVE are me, Icarantus, and 50,000 bots.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Alcohlics Anonymous
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:44:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 18:31:41
Originally by: Whitehound
What is more concerning is that if CCP is effective in their fight against RMTs then the RMTs could try to fight back by hurting the EVE community and with leaked lists of their customers. In other words, if they (RMTs) cannot make their money then they burn their customers only to take them with them. I doubt there is much moral among RMTs not to do this. I certainly do not wish to be caught in any of it.
So let me get this correct, the thing you are most afraid of right now is that other RMT'ers release their customer data? And I am sure you are going to try to wiggle yourself out of this, but it is really what you are saying. You do not say you are afraid of it because they might add legit players in the list, it is literally that you are afraid they burn their customers.
Good luck getting out of this one, I can give you advice how you could prevent being caught in it, but i think you know where i am heading...
Btw you really dont get it, do you? GMs cannot check every transaction manually. However with char names, dates and IP addresses they can get from evenews they can manually check every transaction of that char arround that time. And look there, he happened to 'scam' a certain char named "jkwFJK347" out of 5B ISK by selling him 1 tritanium. Or he happened to find a golem previously owned by that char floating in space. CCP really should not and does not require more evidence.
He really does sound more than a little panicked. I hope you're ready to be compared to a Gestapo agent
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Spin Spin Sugar
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:50:00 -
[161]
Originally by: bitters much
everyone who spent >$1k
everyone who spent >$1k
KiaDuplex6787.94 [NPC corp - 2003 character previous KIA corp]
Icarantus6675.27 Mesopotamians [MPOTS]
commander chielzzz2930.60 Unknown Soldiers [UNSOL] , Wildly Inappropriate [WI.]
Darth Shaddo2820.91 Tropa de Elite [TROPA] , Vera Cruz Alliance [VCRUZ]
Knotte2435.24 [NPC corp]
Inkazi2421.52 [NPC corp]
see below notes2221.45 [deleted character]
HDMIm82013.31 [deleted character]
MurphysLaw11668.38 MurphysLaw1 Corporation [ML1C] , Freelancer Coalition [FREE]
Trevana1631.57 [NPC corp]
Mat Rix1548.67 SIMC [SIMCM]
Cooyaw1527.37 Silver Crown Trade [ZOET] (also was in Exile I [EMXX])
gogetting1470.90 [NPC corp]
Ragnar Sinned1373.13 Exile I [EMXX] , Cascade Associates [FAILA]
gazenth1332.62 Kinetic Cartel [KNTC] , Shadow of xXDEATHXx [X.W.X.]
Kasaga1273.72 Amok. [AM0K] , Goonswarm Federation [CONDI]
xCryptor1266.71 Crypt Corp [CR-CO]
Blooberty1266.36 All Tactical Telemetry Training [ATTT]
Ian Cole1247.66 [NPC corp - 2006 character]
Darth Andar1228.26 Uprising Inc [U.INC]
jonas60001207.91 [deleted character]
Zeftan1199.94 [NPC corp - although 2006 character with large history]
RyanAndrew1110.99 [NPC corp]
Luci31088.30 [deleted character - although there are others using same format]
Alestra Mosvani1030.03 Pegasus Battle Group [PEGA] , Imperial 0rder [I0]
notare1020.06 [deleted character]
Thryson1008.79 Pure Evil Warriors [.PEW.] , The Devil's Warrior Alliance [DEVIL]
pleomaxx1002.75 The New Era [TNERA] , Convicted [A.I.F.]
Corps and alliances added :)
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:51:00 -
[162]
Edited by: bitters much on 09/03/2011 18:53:15
Yedi Mode on: Begun the Iskbuyergeddon has...
Happy hunting
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:54:00 -
[163]
Dear Helicity,
QFT
These are serious accusations being brought up, of course CCP can't say anything about it, most likely because they don't want the website or the people to cover their tracks before appropriate punishment can be delivered.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:55:00 -
[164]
A surprising number of familiar names there.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:56:00 -
[165]
Banning these accounts wouldn't necessarily be a money-loser for CCP. For starters, any time currently on the account has already been paid for and would be forfeit (as well as all those PLEX that the cheaters have accumulated.) A lot of these accounts will be replaced, in the hopes that being 'more careful' will avoid future bans. CCP could also charge a premium like $50/mth/account to allow known cheaters to resubscribe (maybe the toons could have a scarlet letter tattooed to their foreheads as well.)
But just from a public relations/reputation standpoint you'd think CCP would care that their flagship game has been reduced to a RMT/botfest due to their dereliction of duty/incompetence. Don't they realize that the success of their future games relies to a significant degree on the reputation they have for supporting their current game?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:02:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 19:04:47
Originally by: Furb Killer
So let me get this correct, the thing you are most afraid of right now is that other RMT'ers release their customer data? And I am sure you are going to try to wiggle yourself out of this, but it is really what you are saying. You do not say you are afraid of it because they might add legit players in the list, it is literally that you are afraid they burn their customers.
Good luck getting out of this one, I can give you advice how you could prevent being caught in it, but i think you know where i am heading...
You seem to have grasped it quite well, only you are too dumb to be afraid that all of a sudden your account could get banned. What do you do then? Complain to CCP?
Once CCP makes their decision and ban your account permanently can you only start a new one. Years of EVE, should you have been playing for years, will have been invested in a wasted hobby.
So if you are not afraid that you could get caught in it then biomass right now. It will all be good. These are not the droids you are looking for anyway.
Originally by: Furb Killer
Btw you really dont get it, do you? GMs cannot check every transaction manually. However with char names, dates and IP addresses they can get from evenews they can manually check every transaction of that char arround that time. And look there, he happened to 'scam' a certain char named "jkwFJK347" out of 5B ISK by selling him 1 tritanium. Or he happened to find a golem previously owned by that char floating in space. CCP really should not and does not require more evidence.
It is you who does not get it, dumbdumb. An ISK transaction is not a real money transaction. It still is only an ISK transaction. So if you accidentally type the numbers for a market order into the wrong field and do buy 1 tritanium for one billion ISK should you, by your own logic, get banned. We should leave this open for discussion however. Should people who get scammed, or who scam, should get banned for the possibility of being involved in real money transfers?!
--
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speedek
Spricer
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:13:00 -
[167]
Originally by: GM Grimmi
... and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans...
What about you start banning ppl more often for things like that?
Taking money from them doesn't solve ****.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:13:00 -
[168]
All of you whining about how there's no way to tell if it's RMT or not are over simplifying what they do to investigate RMT.
You can whine about it all you want, but they can and do identify what is RMT and what is not.
-
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[SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Pham Lai
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:19:00 -
[169]
Lol...Icarantus became instantly famouse after a post on evenews24.
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned. All of those thousands of USD invested become nothing. A win win solution for CCP to make more money and combat RMT is to increase the isk cost for FLEX...make a minimum price for these item maybe?
A 30 days FLEX cost about 15$ and sells for about 320mil. Whereas in RMT,15$ will buy more than 320mil...>=350mil maybe? So for a isk greedy/desperately-needy player, RMT will net more isk.
So if CCP implement a minimum price requirement for the FLEX to be sold at equal or higher than the price of RMT...people will definately buy FLEX.
CCP, you can hire me and i will perform pricecheck daily for ya so that the FLEX minimum sell price will be competitive with those RMT guys.
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Malcanis
Caldari
Alcohlics Anonymous
Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:23:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Pham Lai
Lol...Icarantus became instantly famouse after a post on evenews24.
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned. All of those thousands of USD invested become nothing. A win win solution for CCP to make more money and combat RMT is to increase the isk cost for FLEX...make a minimum price for these item maybe?
A 30 days FLEX cost about 15$ and sells for about 320mil. Whereas in RMT,15$ will buy more than 320mil...>=350mil maybe? So for a isk greedy/desperately-needy player, RMT will net more isk.
So if CCP implement a minimum price requirement for the FLEX to be sold at equal or higher than the price of RMT...people will definately buy FLEX.
CCP, you can hire me and i will perform pricecheck daily for ya so that the FLEX minimum sell price will be competitive with those RMT guys.
That's an astonishingly bad idea. All you will achieve is to create a black market in PLEX, which inevitably leads to people getting involved in RMT and not bothering with PLEX at all.
See for instance: the soviet bloc 1919-1989 for why price controls do not increase production.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:25:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Pham Lai
Lol...Icarantus became instantly famouse after a post on evenews24.
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned. All of those thousands of USD invested become nothing. A win win solution for CCP to make more money and combat RMT is to increase the isk cost for FLEX...make a minimum price for these item maybe?
A 30 days FLEX cost about 15$ and sells for about 320mil. Whereas in RMT,15$ will buy more than 320mil...>=350mil maybe? So for a isk greedy/desperately-needy player, RMT will net more isk.
So if CCP implement a minimum price requirement for the FLEX to be sold at equal or higher than the price of RMT...people will definately buy FLEX.
CCP, you can hire me and i will perform pricecheck daily for ya so that the FLEX minimum sell price will be competitive with those RMT guys.
Dude...PLEX not FLEX.
And yeah...let's have the RMTers decide the pricepoint for PLEX. +1 to you.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:26:00 -
[172]
Whitehound... you constantly keep saying that anyone can make these lists up. I already pointed earlier that this is not just random list of random game aliases, but list with real names linked to game aliases and emails.
You obviously missed the following parts from the article:
Originally by: part of evenews article
"Eve News24Ęs editorial team engaged in serious debate about the idea of publishing the list of Iskbank.com customer names. We agreed that any and all the personal information in the database (email addresses, phone numbers, et cetera) should not be made public under any circumstances."
Originally by: part of evenews article
"We can assume that CCP was given a copy of the Iskbank.com database by the same person who sent it to us. Even if this wasnĘt the case, when we made our initial request for an interview, we also provided them with the database."
-------------------------------------------------
Play with the best - die like the rest
starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:26:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 19:27:50
Originally by: Barakkus
All of you whining about how there's no way to tell if it's RMT or not are over simplifying what they do to investigate RMT.
You can whine about it all you want, but they can and do identify what is RMT and what is not.
And you cannot deny it that if CCP is being more and more successful in their fight against RMTs that the fight will only get harder and that it will affect innocent players. There is a war going on between CCP and the RMTs and no war is ever clean or perfect.
If you are playing EVE long enough then you know that in the wars we play in-game never anything is the way it seems. There is spying, meta gaming, propaganda, etc.. Why would you think that it is different in the real world? Because it is a wonderful thought to think that someone provides CCP will the ultimate list of cheaters?  What a wonderful thought ... The V's have visted us and brought with them the list of EVE cheaters \o/
This list could be true, it could be bait, it could be completely false. I would not trust it in the world or for anything if I was CCP. I hope CCP just continues going after RMTs the way they know best.
--
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:29:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Pham Lai
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned.
I don't. Cheating bastards should be banned for life.
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Aeronwen Carys
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 19:30:00 -
[175]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Dear CCP,
Fix this. If none of your current employees is qualified to do it, hire someone who is.
Your game is broken. Its 'economy' is a farce. You've just been handed a list of perps. Start up the woodchipper and start biomassing toons, deleting accounts and removing the trillions of ISK involved.
Or stay silent, do nothing, and watch your company fail as spectacularly as your game has.
P.S. Make the doll-playing part optional. There's enough performance issues with your game already.
Dear idiot.
The game isnt broken, its economy isnt a farce and the game isnt failing. In fact if your opinion of CCP and of this game is so low, then what the hell are you doing here? You seem totally uninformed regarding even the most simple things, right down to the fact that it is well known that Incarna will be optional and that it runs on a seperate server, so no lag issues for the rest of us.
Was there something else you wanted to be totally wrong about or is that enough for one day?
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Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar
Surface Detail
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:32:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Snuffallahpagus
Originally by: GM Grimmi
At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
I will translate Grimmi's politik-speak for you:
"At this time we cannot comment on why we are wholly ineffectual at fighting botting and RMT, because our meagre salaries are paid for by the subscription and plex income generated by thousands upon thousands of Bot accounts."
I am disappointed, but not surprised.
I think its safe to assume that the majority of bot accounts are paid for by plex, and therefore CCP aren't having their wages paid for by them, but rather by the people purchasing the plex in the first place.
Originally by: Verone
BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
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sHERU
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 19:35:00 -
[177]
Apparently the unholy rage MKII is already starting.
But this time it's the players them self, I noticed quite a few of these people on the list got booted out of there corporation today.
For example KIADuplex, got booted out of Unkown Soldiers today.
SOONÖ |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:36:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Whitehound... you constantly keep saying that anyone can make these lists up. I already pointed earlier that this is not just random list of random game aliases, but list with real names linked to game aliases and emails.
I did not miss it, Grey. You missed where I explained that one can get such a list in different ways, i.e. by running your own game forum. You then can collect IP numbers, player names and email addresses if you ask for it in the registration process. Any idea how many corporations and alliances run their own forum and do have this information?
--
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:36:00 -
[179]
A 30-day server rollback would be annoying as heck, but it sure would mess-up those RMTers accounting (and cost them real money). CCP could just throw an apology and a stack of SP to to the players for the inconvenience. We tend to have short memories.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:40:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
A 30-day server rollback would be annoying as heck, but it sure would mess-up those RMTers accounting (and cost them real money). CCP could just throw an apology and a stack of SP to to the players for the inconvenience. We tend to have short memories.
If you fight RMTs with a rollback and then compensate everyone with SPs then RMTs have sold SPs to you. Those who buy ISKs for real money may not have bought any ISKs after the rollback but they will certainly not complain about the extra SPs they get in exchange.
--
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