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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:53:00 -
[871]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:47:58
Originally by: baltec1 Inteview seems to have been done a while ago and maby before the list was brought out going by was has been said before todays posting.
Is this your best explanation? The article says that they agreed to disagree, so the guy knew they were disclosing the list. So why did he give them a 3 hour interview?
They are all working together.
Same reason why MPs gave interviews while the MP expences scandal was going on. The want to at least try to save face and will continue to do so right up untill they are jailed.
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The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:02:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP in lost revenue, the victim are the miners who get pushed out of the profession because they can compete with bots, the victims are the people who play the markets because the value of ISK drops when it is being flooded into the market. the victims are the players have have their CPU allocation used up by bots that bring nothing to the game other then cheep isk.
No. To lose it you first need to posses it.
Physical possession is immaterial in this case. If you are denied access to something that would have been there if others hadn't 'cheated' to take for themselves, that is an offence too.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:09:00 -
[873]
Originally by: baltec1 Same reason why MPs gave interviews while the MP expences scandal was going on. The want to at least try to save face and will continue to do so right up untill they are jailed.
This is not the MPs here. These are RMTs and they know what they are doing is not allowed. What face is it they want to save?
--
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:25:00 -
[874]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 11:32:42
Originally by: The Old Chap Physical possession is immaterial in this case. If you are denied access to something that would have been there if others hadn't 'cheated' to take for themselves, that is an offence too.
You are speculating that it would have gone to CCP instead, but you do not know that.
It is greed, which makes people think to have lost money that they have never possessed in the first place.
CCP only losses money when they have to spend it on extra hardware and maintenance just so others can run bots on their machines. That money is lost. Hiring staff only to go after bots is lost money, too. --
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Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:38:00 -
[875]
Came back after 10 pages, and see that Whitehound is still running for president...
-G
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:43:00 -
[876]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Came back after 10 pages, and see that Whitehound is still running for president...
-G
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.14 12:36:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Came back after 10 pages, and see that Whitehound is still running for president...
-G
It's almost as if he's (a CCP employee? There's a conspiracy theory for ya) trying to get the thread locked.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.03.14 12:45:00 -
[878]
If I was CCP, then I would perform a background check on every correspondent to this thread for possible RMT dealings. Similar to how guilty parties seem to return to the scene of the crime while mingling with the public in hopes that law enforcement will pass over them as but curious onlookers, this thread is raging onward and going in circles.
Hell, they can start with my account - I have nothing to hide.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 12:54:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 Same reason why MPs gave interviews while the MP expences scandal was going on. The want to at least try to save face and will continue to do so right up untill they are jailed.
This is not the MPs here. These are RMTs and they know what they are doing is not allowed. What face is it they want to save?
The MPs also knew what they were doing was wrong. Its exactly the same, both knew it is wrong, both said they did nothing wrong, both defend what they did and both are found to be cheating little arsewipes who screw everyone else up.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 13:55:00 -
[880]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 20:59:03
Originally by: PsychoBabe Argument won right there... if CCP would indeed use any of these funds lost to RMTers on this ground breaking idea of beer in pizza they have my full support.
No. It is about cheating and it is a principle that one does not punish when there is no victim. You only understand half of what is being written here. If you cheat then it does not automatically need a punishment. This is the part you had to understand, but you failed.
RMT is victimless?
Consider this:
Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
Therefore, when RMT companies sell botted-ISK everyone is a victim.
Also, if you buy ISK (matter how that ISK was originally produced) you're gaining an advantage. That means that everyone else is at a disdvantage. Again, there are your victims.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:24:00 -
[881]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
I believed that isk farmers would make a higher then normal supply of mining materials, and would'nt lower ore prices just mean lower prices on most manufactured goods?
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:25:00 -
[882]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Rodj Blake Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
I believed that isk farmers would make a higher then normal supply of mining materials, and would'nt lower ore prices just mean lower prices on most manufactured goods?
Doesn't a lot of botting involve shooting NPCs or doing courier missions though?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:33:00 -
[883]
Originally by: baltec1 The MPs also knew what they were doing was wrong. Its exactly the same, both knew it is wrong, both said they did nothing wrong, both defend what they did and both are found to be cheating little arsewipes who screw everyone else up.
Nonsense. You are just saying "all MPs are criminals". While this may be a popular opinion do these people actually believe that they are doing the right thing for the people. Many of them have done good work or else they would not have come into being MPs. You want to put RMTs on the same level as MPs? Good luck with that.
EN24 wrote about bots, how they work, how RMTs hide their transactions, they provided their readers with links to the bots, to the RMTs who use them, and everything else one needs to know about running bots. What was the purpose of this?
Most bots and macros are not run by RMTs is what I am guessing. By giving EVE players all the information they need to run them are EN24 helping their RMT friends to hide in the masses of bots and macros run by ordinary players.
Now EN24 comes with a list of player names. Again, to what purpose?
The information is useless unless CCP takes their time to take a look at it. And if they do what shall CCP do with a list of player names who just want to play EVE? Ban them all? I do not doubt that something interesting could be found by going through all the transactions of these players, but there are better methods to find bots. All EN24 will have done is to make CCP's job harder and not easier.
So either EN24 is a bunch of fools at best, or worse, are they working together with some RMTs to distract from their activities. --
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ed jeni
SKULLDOGS RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:42:00 -
[884]
Edited by: ed jeni on 14/03/2011 14:45:14 ISK is a medium of exchange accepted by the community, meaning it's what people buy things with and sell things for. ISK provides a standard for measuring value, so that the worth of different goods and services can be compared. And lastly, ISK is a store of value that can be saved for later purchases.
ISK is relatively scarceùon purposeùand that's just what makes it valuable. You as an individual want to earn as much as you can, of course. But the EVE economy can actually have too much ISK. When the amount of ISK circulating grows faster than the rate at which goods and services are produced, the result is inflation. Say you want a Raven, for example. Last year, they cost 60mil, but this year an identical ship costs 100mil. If prices of most other goods have also risen, then you are probably dealing with inflationùtoo much ISK chasing too few goods. Prices have inflated and your 60mil buys less than it did. You must earn more just to stay even.
The tricky part of monetary policy within EVE is making sure there is enough ISK in the economy, but not too much. When people have the ISK to demand more shiny objects than the economy can supply, prices go up and the resulting inflation hurts everyone.
The trillions of ISK currently pouring into the economy comes not from careful planning or changes in game mechanics, it comes solely from a huge amount of computer controlled bots earning enormous sums of ISK without player input 23/7. This is a factor that CCP have been watching climb and climb over the last few years and have frankly done little to prohibit or control.
Basically stop the BotÆs and at a stroke you virtually cut of the supply of ISK to the major RMT operations and stabilize the economy, reduce ship/module inflation and gain some much lost faith by the player base. Of course stopping the BOT progs from working is the Trillion ISK question, Punkbuster type programmes really wonÆt solve it as most BOT software uses X/Y co-ordinates and character recognition to enable them to work so are not part of the client code.
The best solution as I see it (certainly in 0.0) is to delay local, (yeah that old argument again), we have all seen Bot fleets immediately warp to pos/station as soon as local changes making them virtually impossible targets for the average roam to target, however if local was delayed then players would at least be able to police the systems they visit with the bonus of kills and added danger. Of course CCP wont be specific about their thoughts on possible solutions, but come on guys this is not a new phenomenon and has been going on for years till it has now become a major issue for honest players and still we get the same old PR rhetoric, stop being part of the problem and begin convincing us that you might have a way to reduce this major problem.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:44:00 -
[885]
Originally by: Whitehound
The information is useless unless CCP takes their time to take a look at it.
Which implies that the information is useful if CCP does take a look at it.
Quote: And if they do what shall CCP do with a list of player names who just want to play EVE?Ban them all?
You seem to be confusing "just wanting to play Eve" with "violating the EULA." And yes, if someone has violated the EULA by buying ISK from a third-party with RL cash then they should be banned.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:46:00 -
[886]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Consider this:
Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
What stops you from mining asteroids and selling your own products in order to make use of the higher prices? Is this not what you already do? And player who shoot your ships cause you damage, too. Are they making you a victim and shall be banned, too?
You are thinking too much inside the sandbox. Instead, realise that it is not about the sandbox, but about making a business over CCP's business, which is causing them costs in return. --
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:47:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
You seem to be confusing "just wanting to play Eve" with "violating the EULA." And yes, if someone has violated the EULA by buying ISK from a third-party with RL cash then they should be banned.
That's all that needs to be said, all the rest is trolls and people feeding the trolls.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:51:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake Consider this:
Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
What stops you from mining asteroids and selling your own products in order to make use of the higher prices? Is this not what you already do? And player who shoot your ships cause you damage, too. Are they making you a victim and shall be banned, too?
You are thinking too much inside the sandbox. Instead, realise that it is not about the sandbox, but about making a business over CCP's business, which is causing them costs in return.
The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:01:00 -
[889]
Originally by: ed jeni Say you want a Raven, for example. Last year, they cost 60mil, but this year an identical ship costs 100mil. If prices of most other goods have also risen, then you are probably dealing with inflationùtoo much ISK chasing too few goods. Prices have inflated and your 60mil buys less than it did. You must earn more just to stay even.
I looked at the QEN and the trend is that ship prices are decreasing, i did'nt see prices on the raven but if it's increasing it's the exception not the rule.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:10:00 -
[890]
Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:14:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Whitehound This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned.
Yes it does.
Push button, receive bacon Break EULA, receive ban. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:33:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned.
Yes, it does. They broke the EULA, they should get banned. .
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:46:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned.
yes it does, the broke the rules, they should be banned.
they knew the risks, brake the EULA then they can have their account, money, items removed from their use. this is a known fact.
cheating = bad things happening to you up to and including being banned.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:47:00 -
[894]
Quote:
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned
Imo CCP should not ban those names but investigate on them first.
Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:56:00 -
[895]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it.
i guess you mean isk confiscation, don't think ccp is allowed to touch customer money even if they broke the eula.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:56:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Imo CCP should not ban those names but investigate on them first.
Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it.
I think you can take it as read that CCP aren't going to ban people or confiscate money without checking
Which I'm pleased to say they are doing. A 3 month or so newbie (except he isn't, he's played before) in npc starter corp that my alt is in has had over 2 billion removed from his account and warned that next time will mean a ban. He's on the list.
As an aside he got precisely ZERO sympathy when he relayed his "tale of woe". The overwhelming consensus was he got off lightly - and that was before someone worked out he's been using the money for can-baiting REAL newbies in starter systems. After that the consensus was "permaban".
Anyway his name is now toast - nobody wants lame morons in corp that need to buy money, never mind the EULA violation.
So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Enjoy
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:59:00 -
[897]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/03/2011 15:59:35
Originally by: Othran
I think you can take it as read that CCP aren't going to ban people or confiscate money without checking
Which I'm pleased to say they are doing. A 3 month or so newbie (except he isn't, he's played before) in npc starter corp that my alt is in has had over 2 billion removed from his account and warned that next time will mean a ban. He's on the list.
As an aside he got precisely ZERO sympathy when he relayed his "tale of woe". The overwhelming consensus was he got off lightly - and that was before someone worked out he's been using the money for can-baiting REAL newbies in starter systems. After that the consensus was "permaban".
Anyway his name is now toast - nobody wants lame morons in corp that need to buy money, never mind the EULA violation.
So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Enjoy
Nice, a little good news, a little warmth and love spread around as a result of all this. You know, if this is indeed true, this could be the best source of tears in quite some time.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:13:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 The MPs also knew what they were doing was wrong. Its exactly the same, both knew it is wrong, both said they did nothing wrong, both defend what they did and both are found to be cheating little arsewipes who screw everyone else up.
Nonsense. You are just saying "all MPs are criminals". While this may be a popular opinion do these people actually believe that they are doing the right thing for the people. Many of them have done good work or else they would not have come into being MPs. You want to put RMTs on the same level as MPs? Good luck with that.
What are you reading because it is not what I am putting down. I said the MP expences scandal. No where did I say all MPs. Before replying in future please read what I am putting down rather than useing your selective reading skills so you dont end up looking even more like a fool.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:17:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:22:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit.
If they are dated and have isk amounts on them then its pretty easy to check initial validity VERY fast.
I guess Whitehound posted too much recently - hence you coming back to spread FUD Mr Alt.
Spin on. Nobody believes you or he have "altruistic" reasons for your "contributions" |
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