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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:35:00 - [901] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 16:39:45 Originally by: Pesky LaRue Yes, it does. They broke the EULA, they should get banned. No, this is not a justification. All you are saying is that you understand the EULA and its implications. It still does not say why thousands of players need to be banned. For example, if someone is being caught repeatedly running bots, then you can say that his or her activity causes a much higher load on the server than the activities of other players. Because every player pays the same subscription amount does everyone deserve the same amount of CPU time. If then a player's activity is much higher than the average do the subscription costs become unjustified for the rest of the players. Many players will have to pay extra for the activity of a single player in order to keep the game free from lag and to maintain the server. You may not see an increased subscription fee, but you might get less content with the next expansion, because some staff needs to go after bots. This would be a justification for a ban. A list on the Internet with thousands of player names and some Dollar sum is not a justification. It is one sick joke and one can only be happy not to be on this list. --
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:39:00 - [902] Originally by: baltec1 What are you reading because it is not what I am putting down. I said the MP expences scandal. No where did I say all MPs. Before replying in future please read what I am putting down rather than useing your selective reading skills so you dont end up looking even more like a fool. Cry some more tears. --
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:39:00 - [903] Originally by: Whitehound No, this is not a justification. Why on earth is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:40:00 - [904] Originally by: Othran Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed. Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit. If they are dated and have isk amounts on them then its pretty easy to check initial validity VERY fast. I guess Whitehound posted too much recently - hence you coming back to spread FUD Mr Alt. Spin on. Nobody believes you or he have "altruistic" reasons for your "contributions" If you seriously think a crapton of players are not right now trying to come up with ways to post a 'legit' list of rtm buyers so they will be harrassed ingame you are either trolling or one of the crapton of players looking to take advantage of this 'rmt rage' for their own purposes. I leave it to our noble readers to figure out which is which. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:42:00 - [905] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: baltec1 What are you reading because it is not what I am putting down. I said the MP expences scandal. No where did I say all MPs. Before replying in future please read what I am putting down rather than useing your selective reading skills so you dont end up looking even more like a fool. Cry some more tears. Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on...
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:50:00 - [906] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 16:39:45 Originally by: Pesky LaRue Yes, it does. They broke the EULA, they should get banned. No, this is not a justification. All you are saying is that you understand the EULA and its implications. It still does not say why thousands of players need to be banned. For example, if someone is being caught repeatedly running bots, then you can say that his or her activity causes a much higher load on the server than the activities of other players. Because every player pays the same subscription amount does everyone deserve the same amount of CPU time. If then a player's activity is much higher than the average do the subscription costs become unjustified for the rest of the players. Many players will have to pay extra for the activity of a single player in order to keep the game free from lag and to maintain the server. You may not see an increased subscription fee, but you might get less content with the next expansion, because some staff needs to go after bots. If an athlete takes steroids and gets caught, he gets banned. It's the same here. You're welcome to disagree with me of course and claim that Ben Johnson should have kept his Olypmic gold because his infraction was "victimless." Quote: A list on the Internet with thousands of player names and some Dollar sum is not a justification. It is one sick joke and one can only be happy not to be on this list. The list itself isn't justification for bans. But it is justification for an investigation - which could then lead to bans. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:52:00 - [907] Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on... More tears, please!!! --
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.03.14 16:57:00 - [908] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on... More tears, please!!! You are doing this so very wrong.
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:01:00 - [909] Its escapes some people that CCP could delete your account because they just felt like it, they do not need a reason to stop providing you with a service. Whitehound, is a troll for the sake of troll, but it keeps the topic bumped. RMT, ban the ****s, all games rely on rules to function, even if there are not rules in game its whole construct is reliant on rules and defined parameters. CCP gave the time poor, adrenaline fixated a method to get isk in game aka the PLEX, so RTM should be stomped on as it hurts the companies revenue stream aka the sale of game time. ...... continues overleaf.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:01:00 - [910] Originally by: baltec1 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on... More tears, please!!! You are doing this so very wrong. And yet people still reply. Hell we are at page 31 so far so whats that olde adage about trolls and feeding? Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:03:00 - [911] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 17:05:42 Originally by: Rodj Blake If an athlete takes steroids and gets caught, he gets banned. This is also where the dilemma starts. If the steroids were taken on accident, because they were contained in some innocent product, then you do sometimes get to see athletes being banned regardless of it. Especially in spectator sports, where the athletes are all professionals and their entire lifestyle depends on the sport, does it add to the drama. EVE is however not a spectator sport and the players do not get price money for "winning EVE". So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the game when you do not have proof of their guilt? --
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:05:00 - [912] Originally by: Whitehound So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt? Strawman argument. No-one is saying that. Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:08:00 - [913] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 14/03/2011 17:09:45 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Rodj Blake If an athlete takes steroids and gets caught, he gets banned. This is also where the dilemma starts. If the steroids were taken on accident, because they were contained in some innocent product, then you do sometimes get to see athletes being banned regardless of it. Especially in spectator sports, where the athletes are all professionals, does it add to the drama. I agree that if a player can demonstrate that they accidentally bought ISK from a dodgy company while trying to buy some books from Amazon.com that they should be shown some clemency. I don't think that anyone is claiming that's what happened though. Quote: So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt? Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Brainless Bimbo Minmatar	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:12:00 - [914] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Whitehound So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt? Strawman argument. No-one is saying that. Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? Americanisation, look at wall street.... ...... continues overleaf.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:31:00 - [915] Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken. For example, you, Tippia, break a rule and you did not know about it. You then will ask why you are being banned. You always followed every rule. Some will tell you "because of Falcon" or "because of rule #42". You will not like such an answer, but you will want the person to justify your ban so that you can understand why what you did falls under rule #42. --
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:36:00 - [916] Originally by: Rodj Blake Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned. And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names? --
Guttripper Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:46:00 - [917] Edited by: Guttripper on 14/03/2011 17:47:02 Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken. I did not know CCP had to justify anything to anyone about anything involving their service. If CCP feels like it, investigates on a whim, or outright does not like your avatar picture, then they can cease your account and refund any proportion of your payment without having to answer any questions. We players do not have any recourse, save for opening a petition and hoping to get an explanation. Edit: changed "and" to "any"
Malcanis Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:52:00 - [918] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken. Fun fact: no, actually, you don't. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2011.03.14 17:55:00 - [919] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Rodj Blake Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned. And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names? To ensure all their associated accounts get banned too. Seems reasonable. Retro sig
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:04:00 - [920] Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 18:07:01 Originally by: Malcanis Fun fact: no, actually, you don't. If CCP was dumb and stupid, then I would agree. However, for rules to become accepted do they need to make sense and those who uphold those rules need to be able to justify them. If rules only existed for the purpose of punishing people then why have rules? You could simply punish who ever comes your way! CCP could do it like the Romans did. If things do not go their way start banning every tenth player. The EULA is also not a set of rules but an agreement. --
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:08:00 - [921] Originally by: Whitehound The EULA is also not a set of rules but an agreement. Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules. Retro sig
Centri Sixx	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:11:00 - [922] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Whitehound So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt? Strawman argument. No-one is saying that. Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? I'm thinking because it's widespread enough that banning the bots and RMT would cause a lot of economic distress. The problem is that EVE's economy is very stable, despite what everyone here is saying is a massive amount of botting and RMT. This is incredibly unusual. Banning can really only make prices go up, and that is probably why they are hesitating. Less minerals, less ISK, same fixed costs and demand.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:15:00 - [923] Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules. You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules. --
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:16:00 - [924] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules. You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules. You might want to double check what you agreed to mate. Retro sig
Mister Rocknrolla	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:20:00 - [925] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken. For example, you, Tippia, break a rule and you did not know about it. You then will ask why you are being banned. You always followed every rule. Some will tell you "because of Falcon" or "because of rule #42". You will not like such an answer, but you will want the person to justify your ban so that you can understand why what you did falls under rule #42. "This is not the logic you are looking for" [/JediFail]
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:20:00 - [926] Originally by: Whitehound You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. Quite the opposite. You do not get banned for what you did, you get banned for breaking the rules. As it happens, what you did broke the rules. By breaking the rules, you open yourself to a ban. Quote: For example, you break a rule and you did not know about it. Ignorance is not a defence or an excuse. Quote: You will not like such an answer Why not? What you're asking is one step removed from the question at hand. "Because of rule #42" is all the justification that is ever need it, whether you like it or not. If you want an explanation why X is Y, then you're free to ask, but that is not in any way required to justify a ban. So again: why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating (you knowà doing something you're not supposed to do) ù not a justification for a ban? Quote: And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names? For the same reason they need to investigate petitions. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:23:00 - [927] Originally by: Avon Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules. You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules. You might want to double check what you agreed to mate. They call it terms, but at the very end do they refer to it as rules, too. The point still is that for anything to become accepted it needs to be justifiable. In games, which can have nonsensical rules does this not apply. --
Avon Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:26:00 - [928] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Avon Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules. You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules. You might want to double check what you agreed to mate. They call it terms, but at the very end do they refer to it as rules, too. The point still is that for anything to become accepted it needs to be justifiable. In games, which can have nonsensical rules does this not apply. Originally by: TOS As an Eve Online subscriber, you must observe and abide by the rules of conduct and policies outlined below, as well as the End User License Agreement. Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given. Originally by: Whitehound The point still is that for anything to become accepted it needs to be justifiable Nope, all they need to do is get you to click a button which states that you accept the rules, which you did. If you don't like them, don't agree to them, don't play. Retro sig
Garix Zaphe	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:27:00 - [929] Whitehound, are you old enough that when you were a child they still had lead in house paint?
Othran Brutor Tribe	Posted - 2011.03.14 18:28:00 - [930] Edited by: Othran on 14/03/2011 18:28:50 Originally by: Centri Sixx I'm thinking because it's widespread enough that banning the bots and RMT would cause a lot of economic distress. The problem is that EVE's economy is very stable, despite what everyone here is saying is a massive amount of botting and RMT. This is incredibly unusual. Banning can really only make prices go up, and that is probably why they are hesitating. Less minerals, less ISK, same fixed costs and demand. Well from a personal viewpoint CCP has a choice : a) it can do more than indicate a preference for players who actually play rather than bot and observe the rules about in-game and OOG stuff which is frankly obvious to all but the dimmest of under-bridge dwellers; b) it can tacitly say "free for all, sod the rules do what you like". My accounts remain suspended and will expire after the much-vaunted FanFest presentation on cheating. If CCP want any more subs from me then that presentation better be worth watching. If its more PR fluff then we know which option is the one CCP tacitly approve. We'll see soon enough.

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