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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:58:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak You mad because you can't afford it?
No, they're mad because RMT:ers are a bunch of cheating scumbags. And they should be banned for it ù far more so than they are right now.
ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:58:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
It sounds like you think CCP has the burden of proof as if they were going to prosecute someone in court. They don't need any evidence to simply deny a subscription and refund the paying account; they could do that on a whim to any player or group of players they choose for no more reason than doing it makes them giggle. You don't own your character or any property controlled by the character, nor do you have possession of those things; you have a limited license to digital stuff that that resides on their server, and they can withdraw that license at any time. Since they do need to keep some sort of appearance of fairness, they'll want to have good cause before dropping the ban hammer, but they don't need proof.
CCP may just get enough attention to get them selfs in trouble, if they decide to ban a large number of players for RMT based on information obtained by someone commiting an illegal act.
Before CCP does anything they should probably find out if it's even legal to act on the information they where given, there is a chance they them self are breaking some laws by using the information when it's obtained by stealing the database.
If it's legal for them to use the database they should verify that data before closing any accounts, the accounts used to buy isk can have been deleted and recreated by another player, or accounts could have been sold. They would atleast need to prove that it really is the same account/owner now as it was when the RMT toke place.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:59:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak I disagree that they should be banned or ****ing burned at the stake for buying some ISK. Who gives a **** like honestly. You mad because you can't afford it?
A few pages ago the main topic was the fact that botters, and their alliances, have a huge advantage over others trying to fund their activities whilst actually operating their computers. Lately it's all about RMTers. Not sure why this happened. RMTing affects everyone evenly, so it's almost irrelevant. SC-buying through botting has more specific victims.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:03:00 -
[274]
Originally by: dexington
Before CCP does anything they should probably find out if it's even legal to act on the information they where given, there is a chance they them self are breaking some laws by using the information when it's obtained by stealing the database.
Like with Wikileaks, they got the information anonymously. Don't shoot the messenger :)
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:04:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Tippia So why do you call it nonsense when I tell you exactly that? Why do you get so defensive when others point out that what you apparently say yourself is not nonsense?
It is nonsense, because you argued without understanding my point.
And where do you see me defensive? I am amused by this thread. Take my word for it. --
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Marconus Orion
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:12:00 -
[276]
A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Play it safe and just vote for Seleene tbh.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:12:00 -
[277]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
It sounds like you think CCP has the burden of proof as if they were going to prosecute someone in court. They don't need any evidence to simply deny a subscription and refund the paying account; they could do that on a whim to any player or group of players they choose for no more reason than doing it makes them giggle. You don't own your character or any property controlled by the character, nor do you have possession of those things; you have a limited license to digital stuff that that resides on their server, and they can withdraw that license at any time. Since they do need to keep some sort of appearance of fairness, they'll want to have good cause before dropping the ban hammer, but they don't need proof.
CCP may just get enough attention to get them selfs in trouble, if they decide to ban a large number of players for RMT based on information obtained by someone commiting an illegal act.
Before CCP does anything they should probably find out if it's even legal to act on the information they where given, there is a chance they them self are breaking some laws by using the information when it's obtained by stealing the database.
If it's legal for them to use the database they should verify that data before closing any accounts, the accounts used to buy isk can have been deleted and recreated by another player, or accounts could have been sold. They would atleast need to prove that it really is the same account/owner now as it was when the RMT toke place.
How many times does it have to be said that CCP can ban anyone they want to for any reason they choose, and no-one can do a damb thing about it for you to understand?
They don't need a list. They can ban you because your sister is ugly or because mercury is in the house of Capricorn or because they heard the first cuckoo of the year or just because it's friday night and they like tears.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:13:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/03/2011 22:15:09
Originally by: Karontin Maysubile I think he means we, the players, might pursue justice on the people in the list.
Yeah, I meant "anyone" as in "the anonymous masses"
Originally by: Marconus Orion A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Would certainly explain why NC makes so much noise about bots. He who snuffed it, fluffed it, and all that nonsense
-- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:15:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Tippia You were banging on about how EN24 did not have CC information.
No. Someone argued they had this information, but it was made up. There is no word on EN24 about it.
I am also pretty sure that you use the expression "banging on" wrong. --
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:19:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I thought I had died and gone to rpg heaven when the first gold box dnd games came out for the c64. Oh the glorious adventures my trusty party of six daring adventurers had plus you could let your friends play by passing the controller. No more dice rolls and charts and overbearing gm's! \o/
*waxes nostalgic*
Pff. Wasteland > all, especially some silly D&D.
Yes there were many wonderful rpg games besides dnd. I just used it as an example as it was one of the first computer based translations that was better than the pnp equivalent.
You had some really bad GM and friends playing with you if you feel that single player a computer version of a RPG is better than playing at a table.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:19:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/03/2011 22:15:09
Originally by: Karontin Maysubile I think he means we, the players, might pursue justice on the people in the list.
Yeah, I meant "anyone" as in "the anonymous masses"
Originally by: Marconus Orion A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Would certainly explain why NC makes so much noise about bots. He who snuffed it, fluffed it, and all that nonsense
Ah well in that case it has already started. One titan pilot (who, got a titan at around the same time as the large sum of money) got the boot from their aliance. Justice is swift in eve
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:23:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Whitehound blah blah blah
Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. It's blatantly obvious that you have something to hide if you care this much about discrediting this information.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:25:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Janos Saal Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. It's blatantly obvious that you have something to hide if you care this much about discrediting this information.
lol, i hope CCP puts you in charge of their RMT task force.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:27:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Malcanis How many times does it have to be said that CCP can ban anyone they want to for any reason they choose, and no-one can do a damn thing about it for you to understand?
One would hope that CCP would try to make sure that they're only banning people for sensible reasons. Otherwise word will get around "CCP banned me because my sister didn't put out" and they'd lose customers pretty darned quickly.
Ban the wrong people -> lose customers.
Don't ban the right people -> lose customers.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If only Damocles was this lucky. -- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:29:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Janos Saal Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. blah blah blah
Everyone has got different interests. You for example are interested in my posting patterns. I did not think anyone would notice, but you did. It is very kind of you. --
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:30:00 -
[286]
Originally by: baltec1 Ah well in that case it has already started. One titan pilot (who, got a titan at around the same time as the large sum of money) got the boot from their aliance. Justice is swift in eve
But his titan and implants are still intact? And Goonswarm will happily allow the future purchaser of that character to join the alliance?
-- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Ozwald Rens
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:31:00 -
[287]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
What is needed is permanment bans to the accounts involved and related accounts and not the "serious warnings" and "1 day suspensions" we are always hearing about.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:31:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 22:34:43 Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 22:32:31
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia So why do you call it nonsense when I tell you exactly that? Why do you get so defensive when others point out that what you apparently say yourself is not nonsense?
It is nonsense, because you argued without understanding my point.
And where do you see me defensive? I am amused by this thread. Take my word for it.
Ooh i know the answer on this one. It was where you said that your greatest problem with this is that RMT organisations would release their customer data. Well maybe not defensive, more like scared, does that count too?
Quote: I did not think anyone would notice, but you did
It is kinda hard to miss.
Quote: Ban the wrong people -> lose customers.
Don't ban the right people -> lose customers.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If only Damocles was this lucky.
Of course CCP needs to be careful with it, but they dont need to half rock solid proof as if they were in court. If someone is on this list (the complete one with IP addresses and all), and at the time the purchase was made he received 5B ISK from a 1 day old alt for his 1 tritanium, or 5B isk from his chinese friend, or a golem floating in space, then CCP got suficient evidence, even though it would most likely not hold up in a court (then again it might do).
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:36:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Ozwald Rens
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
What is needed is permanment bans to the accounts involved and related accounts and not the "serious warnings" and "1 day suspensions" we are always hearing about.
Last I recall: SOE = First offense - 1 week ban, money taken. Second offense 1 month ban, money taken. Third offense perma ban
Blizzard = First offense - Money taken, note from GM. Second offense - Money taken, note from GM. Third offense - Money taken, note from GM. Subsequent offenses - Money taken, note from GM. (at least this is what happened to an ex-coworker regularly who rmt'd)
Just be glad EVE isn't run by Blizzard, you'd have more RMT than you can shake a stick at. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:38:00 -
[290]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Janos Saal Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. It's blatantly obvious that you have something to hide if you care this much about discrediting this information.
lol, i hope CCP puts you in charge of their RMT task force.
To be fair, whitehound really is trying too hard. He keeps repeating his rhetoric that has been shown to be BS, with which he is white knighting RMT ISK buyers. Meanwhile he said literally that his fear is that RMT'ers will release customer data and that he hopes the RMT'ers get a warning, a freaking warning.
Either he is a VERY succesful troll, in which case i would normally congratulate him, but when defending RMT'ers trolling isnt that much fun. On the other hand it is kinda hard not to suspect him of having RMT relations.
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LittleTerror
Tea Tactics
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:41:00 -
[291]
5,540 PLEX
Would that be enough to have caused manipulation of plex prices?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:44:00 -
[292]
Originally by: LittleTerror 5,540 PLEX
Would that be enough to have caused manipulation of plex prices?
Not really, I'm thinking they purchased them via $$ (probably with stolen credit card information) and are waiting to dump them when it's economically feasible to increase their isk holdings. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:45:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: baltec1 Ah well in that case it has already started. One titan pilot (who, got a titan at around the same time as the large sum of money) got the boot from their aliance. Justice is swift in eve
But his titan and implants are still intact? And Goonswarm will happily allow the future purchaser of that character to join the alliance?
Well once CCP catch up with all of thisthen the titan pilot will be looking at a wallet with a hole the size of at least a titan. Added on top of that is the reputation of the charactor as an RMT arsewipe and the real likelyhood of a titan loss comming soon as they are now in a neut titan at a hostile pos
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:49:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Mara Rinn One would hope that CCP would try to make sure that they're only banning people for sensible reasons. Otherwise word will get around "CCP banned me because my sister didn't put out" and they'd lose customers pretty darned quickly.
Seems like someone people in this thread are reading the eula/tos like the devil reads the bible, it's very unlikely ccp is going to ban people who have not broken any rules. It's seem that the normal GM response to RTM discussions is the actions ranging from warning to permanent ban will be taken against players using that type of service.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:51:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Ephemeron You can't win the war if you only play defense. And that's what CCP is doing
There has to be an active and relentless offensive, attacking on all fronts, not just in-game, but using out of game tactics, such as hacker attacks, DoS'ing the websites, exposing private information of those involved.
The people in RMT business need to have real FEAR of doing business. Without fear, there can be no change in behavior.
So CCP should do action that will expose them to legal actions to strike fear in the RTMers?
Genial.
I never thought that spending millions in legal fees would be the winning move.
Effectively the legal expenses will leave CCP incapable to keep the servers running, so the bot/RTMers problem will be resolved forever. No server, no EVE, no botters.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:52:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Furb Killer Well maybe not defensive, more like scared, does that count too?
It worries me. I would not want to see my account disappear, because of someone putting my name on a list or because all of a sudden the logs do show something.
If you have followed the discussion then you might understand that it is not possible for CCP to prove the actual transfer of real money, but they can only see if ISKs are being exchanged between players and what likely is a bot, ratting 23/7 in some belts, and suspect these to be the RMTs. So what CCP does is not an exact science, it is only very accurate guess work.
But why worry? CCP is great at everything they do! The game is free of bugs, no glitches anywhere, everything works just perfectly (and hybrid turrets are fine). You are right! Why worry about it?! --
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:53:00 -
[297]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
CCP follows the isk trail back to the suppliers.
There is no "isk trail.". I'm kinda surprised people haven't read-up on just how they operate.
We aren't privy to what CCP is doing to combat the issue, but it would be nice if they at least put on the appearance that they are doing something...much like the kabuki theater that is the "war on drugs" in the States. We would at least feel better, even if nothing actually changed.
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Miners Strike
Mydas Eye
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:53:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:55:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Miners Strike
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
Undereducated is legit btw. I think it's a brit thing... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:55:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 22:56:35
Originally by: Miners Strike They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
No, just a lot on auto-pilot the last few days. (RedFrog is at Kragen for days, my alternative freight service is not online and I have to move my stuff myself.) --
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