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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:14:00 -
[451]
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database.
We do understand, but that someone was not CCP.
Originally by: dexington
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your own best interest.
The rule is, you can not hack someone's computer. You can't steal their information. You can not post the stolen information to a public forum.
AND!
Once someone you are in no way affiliated with, has hacked a computer, stolen information, and posted it to a public forum, you may use this now publically available information, as long as you are not breaking some other law, like copyright or national security or banking fraud....
It would not be illegal for CCP to ban users for RMT. Therefor, using publically available data that they had no part in the theft or posting of, to ban RMTers, is not breaking the rules.
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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:14:00 -
[452]
Edited by: Valari Nala Zena on 10/03/2011 16:14:50 Holy mother of god!
Stupid bickering about how much more awesome your opinion is than opinion #987022 by anonymous #98708763 in thread #87609212 on internet spaceship game forums #342.
Fact is this: A) CCP will not use this data to investigate. B) CCP will use this data to investigate. -> if B == true, will CCP actually act on the results of the investigation?
Can't we just get an answer CCP? Preferably before all your customers damage their sanity by overheating their brain .
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:19:00 -
[453]
Originally by: dexington
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
Wrong. Who ever stole it had no right to do that. Whoever posted it to a public forum had no right to do that.
Once it is public information, it may be freely used for any non-illegal activity.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:24:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Valari Nala Zena Edited by: Valari Nala Zena on 10/03/2011 16:18:56 Holy mother of god!
Stupid bickering about how much more awesome your opinion is than opinion #987022 by anonymous #98708763 in thread #87609212 on internet spaceship game forums #342.
Fact is this: A) CCP will not use this data to investigate. B) CCP will use this data to investigate. -> if B == true, will CCP actually act on the results of the investigation?
Can't we just get an answer CCP? Preferably before all your customers damage their sanity by overheating their brain (neopallium) .
My guess is they won't punish anyone that hasn't done any RMT within a certain time frame, assuming that it was a one-off deal or that the player decided it was in their best interest to not continue. Those who have recently and often, will more than likely get punished.
It is in CCP's best interests to not be too heavy handed in cases of dealing with buyers. Those generally aren't the people stealing CC numbers or consuming large amounts of server resources. They more than likely will try to destroy the source of the isk before getting too harsh with the buyers.
Really it's none of our business what happens to anyone on that list. If people want to make it their business then they should go hunting them down, not screaming on the forums about how horrible CCP is for not violating privacy agreements. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:33:00 -
[455]
Edited by: dexington on 10/03/2011 16:33:43
Originally by: LHA Tarawa Once someone you are in no way affiliated with, has hacked a computer, stolen information, and posted it to a public forum, you may use this now publically available information, as long as you are not breaking some other law, like copyright or national security or banking fraud....
The database contain personal information given to iskbank by it's customers, you can just claim it as public available information when you are in possession of them only because someone hacked the computer system and send you a copy.
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Clone 1
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:33:00 -
[456]
evenews24.com fighting RMT more than CCP.
Great work evenews24.com.
I got ganked at Za'Ha'Dum, but I am ok now. |
LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:37:00 -
[457]
My guess is that CCP wishes the issue would just go away.
Each account that exists just to bot, is a paid account CCP is making money off of.
Sure, they could dedicate lots of resources to catching these botters and ISK selelrs, but that would be like cutting off thier nose to spite their face.
Better is to make us all believe they are doing something so that we won't emo-rage quit over the unfairness of you enemy making 20 billion ISK a day botting drone regions or spending $1000 real to replace a fleet of super caps that it would take you a year to rebuild using EULA compliant methods, while not actually doing anything.
What are we willing to do? Emo-rage-quit if CCP does not make a concerted effort to permaban all botters? Or put up with it? CCP isn't going to cut off their nose to spite their face unless the face is going to stop paying.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:39:00 -
[458]
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 10/03/2011 16:49:13
Originally by: dexington The database contain personal information given to iskbank by it's customers, you can just claim it as public available information when you are in possession of them only because someone hacked the computer system and send you a copy.
If they just send you a copy, no. But if they post it to a public forum that is publically available, it is public information.
iskbank can go after the hacker. iskbank can go after whomever posted it to a public forum.
However, once it is public, it is public, free to all to use for any non-otherwise illegal activity. That's the law.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:47:00 -
[459]
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 10/03/2011 16:47:51
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:49:00 -
[460]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Right. Once it is public information, it is public information.
iskbank can go after the hacker. iskbank can go after whomever posted it to a public forum.
However, once it is public, it is public, free to all to use for any non-otherwise illegal activity. That's the law.
The database is the property of iskbank, it's clearly not part of the public domain.
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Hacra
Minmatar Cosmodynamics
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:51:00 -
[461]
Should this list prove to be truthful, the ban hammer damn well better go berserk.
Would not like these cheating idiots be allowed to play.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:52:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Now lets focus on the next part
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
Link corrected.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/10/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
Thanks... it seems they changed the date on that. Fixed from main post now also.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:52:00 -
[463]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Right. Once it is public information, it is public information.
iskbank can go after the hacker. iskbank can go after whomever posted it to a public forum.
However, once it is public, it is public, free to all to use for any non-otherwise illegal activity. That's the law.
The database is the property of iskbank, it's clearly not part of the public domain.
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
Originally by: Johnny Dexter bombs everyone to Narnia
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:52:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Valari Nala Zena
Originally by: A Little Girl The internet spaceship lawyers are frightening me! Stop it!
Will somebody please think of the children!!!
Someone already did.. *shudders*
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:57:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
That is the same as saying you can publish eg. music in mp3 form on a public site and then it's no longer anyones property and now part of the public domain, unless you live in china things don't work that way.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:58:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 17:00:02
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Do. you. understand. yet?
He's not terribly bright and supports RMT, so you're sorta wasting your breath :P
Gotta love the internet armchair lawyers in this thread. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:00:00 -
[467]
Originally by: dexington
The database is the property of iskbank, it's clearly not part of the public domain.
Public domain is a legal term regarding copyright law. Copyright is a civil matter, not legal matter. If iskbank can produce a document showing the content of the database was copyrighted, then they may be able to force evenews to take it down.
But to go after CCP in civil court for using the data, assuming it was properly copyrighted prior to release (which is HIGHLY unlikely) is a stretch.
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WarGod
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:02:00 -
[468]
Thank god my name isnt on this list
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:03:00 -
[469]
All of you arguing over the legality of this or that missed the GM correspondence posted in this thread (and removed) stating that CCP can not accept the database to perform an investigation and urged the player not to continue to perform illegal acts. They covered their ass and washed their hands. Now that the list is posted on the internet for anyone to see, they can absolutely do whatever the **** they want. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:10:00 -
[470]
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 10/03/2011 16:33:43
Originally by: LHA Tarawa Once someone you are in no way affiliated with, has hacked a computer, stolen information, and posted it to a public forum, you may use this now publically available information, as long as you are not breaking some other law, like copyright or national security or banking fraud....
The database contain personal information given to iskbank by it's customers, you can just claim it as public available information when you are in possession of them only because someone hacked the computer system and send you a copy.
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:13:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Malcanis
PS how much did you buy?
Probably similar to what he's already bought in other MMOs... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:25:00 -
[472]
Edited by: General Mujahideen Husseni on 10/03/2011 17:26:24
Originally by: Malcanis IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright
Your claim is that merely because something is labeled as fictitious by its creator, it cannot be held under copywrite? BRB, going to use licensed characters in my own fictional works and publish them.
Originally by: Malcanis or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
I also agree that it's not entirely compromising when I access a supermarket's database of customers and their information. Identitiy theft? Pffft. Doesn't exist.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:34:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Malcanis
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:35:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Malcanis
PS how much did you buy?
Probably similar to what he's already bought in other MMOs...
LOL, yes.
"If a man makes money successfully by certain means, he will go on making more money by the same means. Human activity is drearily predictable"
-William S. Burroughs
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:37:00 -
[475]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Your claim is that merely because something is labeled as fictitious by its creator, it cannot be held under copywrite?
No. His claim is that since they've sad "that is not our database" they cannot later say "they've copied our database." ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:56:00 -
[476]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Edited by: General Mujahideen Husseni on 10/03/2011 17:26:24
Originally by: Malcanis IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright
Your claim is that merely because something is labeled as fictitious by its creator, it cannot be held under copywrite? BRB, going to use licensed characters in my own fictional works and publish them.
Originally by: Malcanis or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
I also agree that it's not entirely compromising when I access a supermarket's database of customers and their information. Identitiy theft? Pffft. Doesn't exist.
How can something be both fictitious and compromising?
And IskBank aren't claiming that they made up this database but that the 'hacker' did. If anyone owns "copyright" to it, it's him, not them.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:01:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Othran Evidence which is obtained illegally IS valid evidence pretty much everywhere (that has any rule of law) outside the USA. The person/persons who obtained the evidence illegally may face charges/prosecution but that does NOT invalidate the evidence.
What does invalidate the evidence is the lack of evidence trail. If the records aren't kept correctly from the time the evidence is initially found till the time it's presented in court, the evidence is invalid and cannot be submitted as evidence for the case.
It doesn't. The USA has a principle of "fruits of the poisoned tree" whereby any evidence obtained by illegal means is inadmissable - as is ALL further evidence gained as a result of the "tainted evidence".
In most other countries that's not the case. Further evidence gained as a result of illegaly gained evidence is fine. Eg - and this HAS happened recently where I live. Cops boot down a door to search for stolen goods. Its the wrong address but they find a small cannabis grow. Guy gets 2 years in jail. Clearly an "illegal" search but evidence is acceptable as the jury recognise it wasn't fabricated/etc.
Oh and anyone who thinks CCP would ban based solely on that list is delusional. The list is a STARTING POINT, thats all.
For the major buyers on the list it should be utterly trivial for CCP to work out whether its true or not. Dates and ISK amounts are available so if CCP can't even do that.......
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:02:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Malcanis [How can something be both fictitious and compromising?
Pretty easy, there's even legal jargon for it -- the appearance of impropriety. Once fictitious information has been planted concerning someone's behavior, it can be compromising of their image or standing in whatever organization or society would look down on the behavior they engaged in.
Originally by: Malcanis And IskBank aren't claiming that they made up this database but that the 'hacker' did. If anyone owns "copyright" to it, it's him, not them.
Even so, it'd be assumed proprietary material of that website.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:06:00 -
[479]
Edited by: Burnharder on 10/03/2011 18:06:06
Originally by: dexington
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
I very much doubt a database used by someone engaged in criminal activity is covered by copyright law and as it's a database of online virtual characters, the Data Protection act doesn't come into play. There are various whistle-blower laws that take precedence in any case. And it IS criminal activity because I very much doubt the business in question charges VAT or pays state individual or business taxes on earnings.
For the life of me I cannot understand why you'd play a game like Eve and then remove almost all of the sense of achievement buy buying your Isk. I guess these are the same people who use cheat codes in single player games because they might have to actually engage their brain, or put some hours in, to get through a difficult level. But why play Eve and not Mario-Kart in that case?
I don't get it. I never will either.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:08:00 -
[480]
Next profession in EVE : Lawyer Included new skills (Cha/Int) : Lawyer, Penal Law, Common Law, Contract Voiding, EULA Preservation, Money Laundering Formalization... ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best browser MMO of them all |
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