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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Grey Stormshadow
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:00:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 09/03/2011 11:00:46
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/in-isk-we-trust-iskbank-com-exposed-thousand-of-customers-outed/
http://www.evenews24.com/2010/03/09/iskbank-com-client-list/
Interesting stuff...
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verybad Girl
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: verybad Girl on 09/03/2011 11:12:30 hey Icarantus
your totally screwed now *lol*
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Meridith Akesia
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:13:00 -
[3]
A half decent evenews24 article. colour me suprised.
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Shizo Lang
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:19:00 -
[4]
CCP should really expand their Taskforce (if any is there) to deal with the Information on this Topic revealed by its customers and i.e. awesome sites like evenews
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:20:00 -
[5]
4th. Will read later.
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Ifly Uwalk
Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:20:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 09/03/2011 11:08:35 http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/in-isk-we-trust-iskbank-com-exposed-thousand-of-customers-outed/
http://www.evenews24.com/2010/03/09/iskbank-com-client-list/
Interesting stuff...
"We are confident that [CCP] will investigate and take whatever action they deem appropriate."
ell oh ell
Also, I'm still waiting for a list of bots operating in the Vale of the Silent area.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:32:00 -
[7]
/me shakes head in disbelief
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Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Horizonist /me shakes head in disbelief
Why so pale friend Cicero?
This is just one example of one business. How many are there? 10? 20? 50? Hundreds?
Saddest thing about this is because they've chosen to 'out' the list publicly and not sent it to CCP and asked for comment or clarification or action etc. they've killed the story in one feature. I'd dearly like to have seen this one to the end .. but I doubt we will now.
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
Mary Christmas
Christmas Inc
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:39:00 -
[9]
how nice of that person to forward the database.
i truly hope allot of people will get the banhammer on them even if its a temp one but also taken away all the isk that they gained from these transactions.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:41:00 -
[10]
Very interesting article, thanks should definately go out to the hacker for exposing this, even if the stupid bastard did try and blackmail people first. And that customer list along with purchase amounts makes for eyebrow raising reading.
One guy spent $3000 in two purchases. $3000! What in the name of hell would make someone spend that kind of real life money in a game? I'll be double checking my friends list against that list of names now, just in case.
And it will be interesting to see what, if anything CCP does about this.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:41:00 -
[11]
OZOM!
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Sydious
Amarr Cypher Industries. Fade 2 Black
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:42:00 -
[12]
Ground floor on epic thread. Great job on exposing this.
Quote: CCP Zymurgist> They are all noobs Lana, they are all noobs
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Juil
Gallente Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:42:00 -
[13]
Well you'll notice they did state
Quote: We have approached CCP for comment but CCP Manifest has declined our request for an interview.
what gets me is they didn't say if CCP asked them to hold off on actually publishing the story etc or anything like that while they run investigations etc. Though I agree that CCP actually needs to make a Statement about this themselves.. simply saying sorry we aren't going to say anything isn't going to go down well, at least acknowledge that this has happened and what they are going to do about it.
Of course the responce is likely to be 'Wait until Fanfest'. Love to see if people bring this up at fanfest so if your going let it be known, this = as bad as the BOTS, though Botting = a large problem as well. - Juil Intergrated Information Services Information is Power
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Neamus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:44:00 -
[14]
The more I read about this stuff the more I'm tempted to quit my job and do this instead. Fk it I'll even move to Russia for a while.
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Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:45:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Juil Well you'll notice they did state
Quote: We have approached CCP for comment but CCP Manifest has declined our request for an interview.
what gets me is they didn't say if CCP asked them to hold off on actually publishing the story etc or anything like that while they run investigations etc. Though I agree that CCP actually needs to make a Statement about this themselves.. simply saying sorry we aren't going to say anything isn't going to go down well, at least acknowledge that this has happened and what they are going to do about it.
Of course the responce is likely to be 'Wait until Fanfest'. Love to see if people bring this up at fanfest so if your going let it be known, this = as bad as the BOTS, though Botting = a large problem as well.
Fair enough. I completely failed to read that. My bad.
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 11:48:22 Aditionally look at the bots in DRF space story, until it was published didnt do anything about them (really 1 day bans dont count), only after it was published there were banned for a longer time period.
And yeah while i dislike hackers, this is kinda awesome.
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Caldrion Dosto
Excrutiating Dirge Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:51:00 -
[17]
in before CCP states "Our logs show nothing"
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Misstress Iteron
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:53:00 -
[18]
Did we just have an EVE Wikileaks moment
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:54:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Caldrion Dosto in before CCP states "Our logs show nothing"
+1 internets for you, sir.
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Cornerwood
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Posted - 2011.03.09 11:55:00 -
[20]
System has failed
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Everinsearch
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:00:00 -
[21]
Am I to late?
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Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric The Polaris Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:04:00 -
[22]
Heh, thats some serious business...
RMT is like war against drugs. No matter how much effort is made against it, its the people buying it making it possible.
If theres demand for certain product, then there will suplier.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: verybad Girl Edited by: verybad Girl on 09/03/2011 11:26:58
hey Icarantus
your totally screwed now *lol*
i mean bloddy hell spening roughly 7k bucks on eve isk wtf is wrong with you man
Maybe $7k to him is nothing. We can't all be pawpers.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:07:00 -
[24]
A real news exclusive, well done EveNews24.
What I find surprising is the scale of the operation. A turn over of hundred of thousands of dollars a month by one operation is actually pretty staggering and is about about 100 times bigger than I ever suspected.
I think give the criminal nature of this enterprise I expect a significant number of the transactions are actually using stolen/phished credit card details.
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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:07:00 -
[25]
This is actually kinda scary how many names are on there, knowing that this is probably not the only website on the internet that does this .
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Grindkore
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:09:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: verybad Girl Edited by: verybad Girl on 09/03/2011 11:26:58
hey Icarantus
your totally screwed now *lol*
i mean bloddy hell spening roughly 7k bucks on eve isk wtf is wrong with you man
Maybe $7k to him is nothing. We can't all be pawpers.
I would like to see a face of my accountant when filing 1099 MISC tax form. "This $7000.00 is for currency exchange transaction for internet space ship game".
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Emperor Cheney
Celebrity Sex Tape
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:15:00 -
[27]
a whole bunch of extremely alty, generally untracable names. And then I see "darth shadoo."
Oh my.
Yeah, these are real smart guys.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:16:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Grindkore
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: verybad Girl Edited by: verybad Girl on 09/03/2011 11:26:58
hey Icarantus
your totally screwed now *lol*
i mean bloddy hell spening roughly 7k bucks on eve isk wtf is wrong with you man
Maybe $7k to him is nothing. We can't all be pawpers.
I would like to see a face of my accountant when filing 1099 MISC tax form. "This $7000.00 is for currency exchange transaction for internet space ship game".
As long as his accountant is being paid, he probably couldn't give a rat's turd what the money was spent on.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Emperor Cheney a whole bunch of extremely alty, generally untracable names. And then I see "darth shadoo."
Oh my.
Yeah, these are real smart guys.
He isnt the only one, also saw another one who spend more than a thousand dollars and is there with his main (at least a char in a real alliance). Most are alts yeah, but you can find enough non-alts.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:36:00 -
[30]
4.183 transactions in 10 months and a half.
Less than 407 each month and several are repeating customers. About 4.800 in a year.
Considering that a good percentage will be new guys thinking that isk will make them "win" EVE it isn't so bad as I feared (it will depend on the number of sites getting as many customers as this one, naturally).
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:43:00 -
[31]
UNHOLY RAGE II
It is time for it |
Janis Ezra
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Posted - 2011.03.09 12:51:00 -
[32]
I think this thread wont live long.
a) namecalling b) CCP dont care
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:11:00 -
[33]
I'm quite curious to know what ccp are going to do about this. the embarrisment is mounting!
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:17:00 -
[34]
Originally by: verybad Girl
hey Icarantus
your totally screwed now *lol*
i mean bloddy hell spening roughly 7k bucks on eve isk wtf is wrong with you man
How else do you think he funds his .blink habit?
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Dr Neba
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:22:00 -
[35]
Can I have all of your stuff's
no ..... hang on ..... bad idea lol |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:23:00 -
[36]
In before the lock.
At least we get to the beta test the Twilight MMO as EVE Online gets packed with more and more bots. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Thorleifer
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:25:00 -
[37]
did you guys see some of the totals 1 person made purchases of $4172.74 and $2615.20.....that is insane
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:26:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Janis Ezra I think this thread wont live long.
a) namecalling b) CCP dont care
It's inevitable, I guess.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:27:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Patient 2428190 At least we get to the beta test the Twilight MMO
No we don't. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patient 2428190 At least we get to the beta test the Twilight MMO
No we don't.
I almost believe you.
After all, Incarana is going to be packed to the brim with great features, game content busted out of the seams. The last 5 years have been a constant information stream from CCP talking about all the great things we will be doing, all the beautiful crafted content lovingly made just for EVE Online customers.
Oh wait, its a graphics engine that is completely unrelated to anything EVE has been for the past decade. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
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Darth McDarth
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:37:00 -
[41]
In on second page of threadnaught. I approve of this one, it doesn't have Feed instead of fed in the title Anyway, very interested in seeing the repercussions and damage control that are going to come from this.
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:37:00 -
[42]
CCP needs to verify the transactions, and then ban them all. CCP should be thanking evenews24, they're making the job much easier.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:39:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 13:39:52
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Oh wait, its a graphics engine that is completely unrelated to anything EVE has been for the past decade.
You're missing the point.
We're not beta-testing a Twilight MMO. We're beta-testing WoD.
WoD is to Twilight what EVE is in relation to the Star Wars Chrismas Special. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Kylira Ulfrinn
Blackstaff Logistics
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:42:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Patient 2428190
I almost believe you.
After all, Incarana is going to be packed to the brim with great features, game content busted out of the seams. The last 5 years have been a constant information stream from CCP talking about all the great things we will be doing, all the beautiful crafted content lovingly made just for EVE Online customers.
Oh wait, its a graphics engine that is completely unrelated to anything EVE has been for the past decade.
I am now convinced that you are incapable of making a post in which you do not cry about Incarna. That's all I ever see from you.
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:42:00 -
[45]
What about the issue of the reliability of the "evidence?"
At any point in the chain of custody names could have been added or removed to/from the db, so how can CCP be expected to enact any enforcement based on it? Are they supposed to go through name-by-name and check each wallet? Only punish "major" offenders? That hardly seems fair?
Very eye-opening, but not really actionable on it's face. Hopefully it works to enlighten CCP and players and maybe discourage people from patronizing such sites.
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Callum545
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:48:00 -
[46]
in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex $4,172.74 KiaDuplex $2,615.20
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
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Hermosa Diosas
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:48:00 -
[47]
havent you learned by now CCP are not interested. They generate a substantial income from stuff like this also..and hes true it will change nothing.
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Juil
Gallente Phoenix Industries Pty. Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:48:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 13:39:52
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Oh wait, its a graphics engine that is completely unrelated to anything EVE has been for the past decade.
You're missing the point.
We're not beta-testing a Twilight MMO. We're beta-testing WoD.
WoD is to Twilight what EVE is in relation to the Star Wars Chrismas Special.
Yeap WOD is Vampire, Mage, Werewolf (and depending if it's nWoD or oWoD, Hunter, Changling, wraith, mummy etc etc) WoD had more incommon with a certain sony movie *cough*underworld*cough* then with Twilight.
And honestly who cares if parts of incarna will be used for wod? I mean it's an engine made for doing that stuff just because it is being used on more then one game don't mean much otherwise unreal would be in trouble.
The big one HERE is the RMT'n what that has to do with Incarna has me beat go bash it else where. - Juil Intergrated Information Services Information is Power
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:52:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 13:39:52
Originally by: Patient 2428190 Oh wait, its a graphics engine that is completely unrelated to anything EVE has been for the past decade.
You're missing the point.
We're not beta-testing a Twilight MMO. We're beta-testing WoD.
WoD is to Twilight what EVE is in relation to the Star Wars Chrismas Special.
WoD = A terrible, cliche , unoriginal Pen and Paper game created for teenage nerds about vampires and werewolves.
Twilight = A terrible, cliche , unoriginal romance novel created for teenage girls about vampires and werewolves.
Innovation and vampires go together as well as fire and paper. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:52:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex $4,172.74 KiaDuplex $2,615.20
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
TBH I don't see why CCP doesn't just make their isk competatively priced. I have no problem with people spending their rl money on mmos. Seriously don't care. I'm not 'competing' with people who buy isk. Not now, not ever. So what's the big deal, seriously? All I see is that is 8k CCP didn't get and another excuse not to invest more cash in improving this game etc.
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:55:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
What about the issue of the reliability of the "evidence?"
At any point in the chain of custody names could have been added or removed to/from the db, so how can CCP be expected to enact any enforcement based on it? Are they supposed to go through name-by-name and check each wallet? Only punish "major" offenders? That hardly seems fair?
Very eye-opening, but not really actionable on it's face. Hopefully it works to enlighten CCP and players and maybe discourage people from patronizing such sites.
No one expects CCP to walk in and ban them all (hell half are alts and first the main needs to be found).Most people probably dont expect CCP to do anything at all. But anyway we hope CCP uses this info to check all people on this list, it is a great starting point for investigation, few hunderd accounts are easier to check than few hunderd thousand.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 13:57:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 13:58:00
Originally by: Patient 2428190 WoD = A terrible, cliche , unoriginal Pen and Paper game created for teenage nerds about vampires and werewolves.
Not quite.
àmaybe you just had a bad ST.
Quote: Innovation and vampires go together as well as fire and paper.
Surprising how well the two were combined in WoD then. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:07:00 -
[53]
TBH I don't see why CCP doesn't just make their isk competatively priced. I have no problem with people spending their rl money on mmos. Seriously don't care. I'm not 'competing' with people who buy isk. Not now, not ever. So what's the big deal, seriously? All I see is that is 8k CCP didn't get and another excuse not to invest more cash in improving this game etc.
Isk exchange rates are set by the market, it's a player controlled trade. The black market will always undercut the legitimate price. Even if it's incredibly low it'll just end up being chinese sweat shops supplying the isk like other MMOs.
"I'm not 'competing' with people who buy isk. Not now, not ever. So what's the big deal, seriously?"
I see bots screwing up the economy, people competing unfairly, and losses that don't matter.
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Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:12:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Corozan Aspinall on 09/03/2011 14:13:01
Originally by: mechtech TBH I don't see why CCP doesn't just make their isk competatively priced. I have no problem with people spending their rl money on mmos. Seriously don't care. I'm not 'competing' with people who buy isk. Not now, not ever. So what's the big deal, seriously? All I see is that is 8k CCP didn't get and another excuse not to invest more cash in improving this game etc.
Isk exchange rates are set by the market, it's a player controlled trade. The black market will always undercut the legitimate price. Even if it's incredibly low it'll just end up being chinese sweat shops supplying the isk like other MMOs.
"I'm not 'competing' with people who buy isk. Not now, not ever. So what's the big deal, seriously?"
I see bots screwing up the economy, people competing unfairly, and losses that don't matter.
Whilst I can't argue with your projection there, I can't actually see how the last part, about screwed up economy, unfair competition (or lack of) and losses that don't matter isn't already the case for certain null entities. I also think a deflated isk would probably create more conflict and more speculation among those who aren't currently paying off their mortgage with moon goo RMT. But then I am obviously not a deep thinker when it comes to this stuff.
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:19:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 14:20:28 Just make sure that your own names are not on that list in case you have nothing to do with RMTs as it may well be a forged list.
CCP will not do anything about it should the list be real, because it is not one of their logs and even if CCP can match IP addresses with character names may these have come from another source for such a forgery. Unless CCP can look into the bank accounts and see the real money transfer then really anyone can come up with such a list.
What is more worrying, and likely more interesting for CCP, is the scale all this anti-RMT movement is taking on. It is creating more and more bad press for the game one way or the other. --
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:41:00 -
[56]
CCP's not gonna do anything about it because someone at CCP is probably involved in it.
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Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Juil
And honestly who cares if parts of incarna will be used for wod? I mean it's an engine made for doing that stuff just because it is being used on more then one game don't mean much otherwise unreal would be in trouble.
The big one HERE is the RMT'n what that has to do with Incarna has me beat go bash it else where.
They may go and do a giant purge to shut up the RAHRAH ban the bots crowd, but they certainly won't invest much time in fixing any of the core gameplay or game mechanics that allow for RMT/botting in the first place. They can't beat it, they won't even try. The first Unholy Rage was just a mass ban and bunch of PR (complete with feel good dev blogs and graphs) to quiet down the issue. But, surprise surprise.. look at the situation we are in right now.
The way EVE is set up, ISK is absolutely everything and you can farm it in any countless number of ways. You can get literally everything from ships, implants, modules, characters and even gametime for ISK. There will always be bots, there will always be RMT and it will be that way until the day TQ closes.
For their anti-RMT taskforce, EVE Online is a lost cause as long as ISK still has the power it does. The best the company could hope for is that their next game has elements in it that aren't as conducive to RMT. So, pray they learned their lessons for WoD/Twilight/Underworld Online. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:48:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 14:50:02 Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 14:48:06 RMT'ing might not affect you, it affects me and the vast majority of the player base. If i am happily flying in my than and getting hotdropped by a supercarrier bought using RMT (or their own bots), how would it not affect me?
@Whitehound, so now the issue is not RMT but the issue is that people complain about cheating? Really? You got issues.
Also as mentioned previously for the mentally challenged, no one expects CCP to ban all those people, not in the least because majority are alts. What we do expect is CCP to start from this list and check for strange transactions. Because I resally like to know how you kow it is not in their logs. Hint: Logs do not say "This persons RMTs" , and CCP cant manually check every transaction, they can manually check every transaction of every account that was made arround the time they bought isk according to that list.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:52:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 14:52:04
Originally by: Whitehound What is more worrying encouraging, and likely more interesting for CCP, is the scale all this anti-RMT movement is taking on.
Fix'd. Cheaters need to die. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.09 14:55:00 -
[60]
Originally by: verybad Girl i mean bloddy hell spening roughly 7k bucks on eve isk wtf is wrong with you man
I imagine there are many irl well to do or rich players who wouldn't blink an eye at spending 2~7k on a game. Not saying its right or fair but it certainly explains why its so popular given that isk is the only real thing you have to grind for in the game to do the things you want.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Patient 2428190 WoD = A terrible, cliche , unoriginal Pen and Paper game created for teenage nerds about vampires and werewolves.
Not quite.
àmaybe you just had a bad ST.
Quote: Innovation and vampires go together as well as fire and paper.
Surprising how well the two were combined in WoD then.
Nerd rage best rage imho.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:00:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Nerd rage best rage imho.
I suppose that is a good explanation for why he's so negative about it. Bad GMs/STs/DMs/whatevers can bring out that rage like few other things. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ashokay
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:10:00 -
[62]
R O F L
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:14:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Nerd rage best rage imho.
I suppose that is a good explanation for why he's so negative about it. Bad GMs/STs/DMs/whatevers can bring out that rage like few other things.
Which is why I prefer computer based rpg games be them turn based or real time over the traditional pnp. I thought I had died and gone to rpg heaven when the first gold box dnd games came out for the c64. Oh the glorious adventures my trusty party of six daring adventurers had plus you could let your friends play by passing the controller. No more dice rolls and charts and overbearing gm's! \o/
*waxes nostalgic*
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:15:00 -
[64]
Watching the Cockroaches scuttle for cover as the light is suddenly snapped on is going to be absolutely hilarious.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:19:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas havent you learned by now CCP are not interested. They generate a substantial income from stuff like this also..and hes true it will change nothing.
Oh yeah, suuuuuuuure.
All the money given to the RMT people are generating such a great income to CCP ....
$350.000 per year just on this site. That are $350.000 income robbed from CCP because people don't buy PLEX but the isk from RMT. You could easily pay a couple more devs with that money. Devs that could improve EVE. Yeah, this RMT is sooooo much helping EVE and CCP...
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:20:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I thought I had died and gone to rpg heaven when the first gold box dnd games came out for the c64. Oh the glorious adventures my trusty party of six daring adventurers had plus you could let your friends play by passing the controller. No more dice rolls and charts and overbearing gm's! \o/
*waxes nostalgic*
Pff. Wasteland > all, especially some silly D&D.
Originally by: Malcanis Watching the Cockroaches scuttle for cover as the light is suddenly snapped on is going to be absolutely hilarious.
àor, as I said in some other thread that tried to create FUD over what would happen without bots: anyone who complains after an Unholy Rage-style campaign needs to be investigated for thought-crime. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:21:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Malcanis Watching the Cockroaches scuttle for cover as the light is suddenly snapped on is going to be absolutely hilarious.
I dunno man. I can't imagine many folks with 7 g's to drop on a video game will be silly enough to use accounts connected to their main. Even the drooling ghost miners manage that one ..
Also, if I had 7 grand to spunk on eve, not that I ever would anyway, even if I did, but, wouldn't you just buy legit isk? Or characters with passive isk generating skills? Like mine? Haha.
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
Janis Ezra
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:24:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Janis Ezra on 09/03/2011 15:24:35
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex 2995.94Ç KiaDuplex 1877.66Ç
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
Icarantus has the highscore! I mailed him this link. He said its not true and he wrote a petition
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Nina Mercedez
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Or characters with passive isk generating skills? Like mine? Haha.
On an unrelated topic, how passive is your char with only 1 RND agent? PI is hardly passive, since you have to do something.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:25:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex $4,172.74 KiaDuplex $2,615.20
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
TBH I don't see why CCP doesn't just make their isk competatively priced.
CCP have overheads that the RMTers dont.
Taxes for one thing.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:28:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall TBH I don't see why CCP doesn't just make their isk competatively priced.
CCP have overheads that the RMTers dont.
Taxes for one thing.
More to the point, RMTs sell ISK for cash and can adjust the exchange rate; CCP does not, and it's the players who set the exchange rate between PLEXes and ISK. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:32:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound What is more worrying encouraging, and likely more interesting for CCP, is the scale all this anti-RMT movement is taking on.
Fix'd. Cheaters need to die.
Stop fixing my comments, you troll, or I will fix your head. --
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EN24 Lapham
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:37:00 -
[73]
Hello, everyone. I'm EveNews24's News Director. I'm glad to see that so many of you like the story. We put in a lot of work getting this to you and we're rather proud of the results.
I also wanted to let you know that there is an update on the story. Iskbank.com has made a statement in response to the leak.
Quote: Official Iskbank.com statement on the DB leak.
Evenews24.com has a publication about our website and in the end of the story published a list of characters that, as it is stated, have been obtained from our DB.
We officially state the information provided on the above-mentioned website is fictitious and has nothing to do with our customers' data.
We are not responsible for any potential inconvenience the publication of Evenews24 may cause to real players in case some of the listed characters exist in Eve Online.
Also, taking into consideration the potential ways such information can be obtained through and used for, we believe the editorial board of Evenews24 has to bear responsibility for a) unauthorized access to and sharing of personal data of Eve Online users b) slander and intentional harm to certain Eve Online users.
Fly safe.
While we can understand why Iskbank.com would refuse to confirm the data we received, EveNews24 staff spent a great deal of time talking to customers whose names were on this list. The vast majority of those we spoke to confirmed that they were Iskbank.com customers. Some of their stories will be told tomorrow. In the mean time, we stand by our story. It is also worth pointing out that Vadim has not provided any evidence that the individual who accessed the Iskbank.com database used the information to blackmail customers, despite his promise to provide that evidence. As such, we now believe Vadim's allegations of blackmail to be false.
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Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.09 15:38:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Corozan Aspinall on 09/03/2011 15:43:00
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall Or characters with passive isk generating skills? Like mine? Haha.
On an unrelated topic, how passive is your char with only 1 RND agent? PI is hardly passive, since you have to do something.
PI is 5 planets. 2 extraction. 2 ro > p1. 1 p1 > p2. Its on a 24hr cycle. I export 940576 r0 from each planet which fills the crane up. 4 jumps to export and haul back to high sec.
Then I drop the r0 in an orca and haul it in system to my p1>p2 planet. Export the p1.
Haul it in same orca to p2 planet. Export rocket fuel from p2 planet (745m3 a day). Back to home depot.
All done in 1 trip.
15 mins a day.
Takes 7 days to mfg 500, 000 scourge fury missiles and ~15 days to get enough rocket fuel for that (12500). So every 15 days I haul the latest batch to jita (if I can be bothered; its easier to just pay Red Frog 2.5m to do it for me) and buy mins for the next batch on the return leg.
30 mins every 15 days for that if I do the hauling. If not, sod all since I just contract it to rf from jita and to jita from where I do my manufacturing (nonni in my case).
If you are smart you can probably work out something more efficient. I don't care tbh. Never did as long as I get 500m a month for minimal time wasted.
Thats it.
As for the r&d agent thats just something I could never be arsed with. Since the datacores are so cheap I just buy them - I make way more than plex price each month so I can easily afford it. Its about 40m every 2-3 months to buy the datacores. I do all my invention in npc station. I don't run a pos.
The ONLY issue anyone would have doing what I do is they'd need a supplier of Scourge Fury BPC's to use for invention. NPC stations are usually jammed up so a mate with a pos who can copy you off 100 or so now and then is jolly useful. If you are in a corp or alliance I doubt that will be an issue. I pay a friend pos fuel + 15% for copying time. Works out around 15m for 100 copies. Pish all. Again easily affordable.
In all I intentionally went out of my way to ensure that I could get half a bill at least a month in passive income from doing not more than 15 mins a day.
I don't do missions, I laugh at mining etc.
I'm selling because I would rather pay a sub and pew pew in null sec for an hour or two a day and I'm too tight to pay for 2 accounts. I also like to blow stuff up in low sec and you can't manage sec status (I tried it) and have much fun on the same character you use for all your jew golds. Just practically unenjoyable.
BTW this character has standings aplenty to set up multiple research agents. I just couldn't be bothered since the cost of inventing T2 ammo is minimal anyway.
If you want to know more just convo me in game or evemail me since its offtopic here.
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Whitehound Stop fixing my comments, you troll truth-sayer
No.
Especially since it is encouraging to see people finally getting upset enough about this cheating to start kicking the cheaters in the teeth. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Patient 2428190
DEGRREE'Fo'FREE Internet Business School
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:42:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Patient 2428190 on 09/03/2011 15:44:33 Mark my words
The fight against RMT is completely dead in EVE Online. You may get the fabled Unholy Rage II and it will mass ban a ton of bots. Graphs will be made, dev blogs proclaiming victory will be made and the forum rabble will calm down. Then it will just build up again. Methods may change, but the same result will happen. RMT will remain incredibly lucrative and will constantly plague EVE. Within a year of the next great purge, bots will be back in business and RMT will be stronger than ever. Probably even better with the expanded playerbase and all the god damn micro transactions that Incarna will bring in on its coat-tails (Needed to get my whine in there)
ISK is absolutely everything in this game, and it is filled with bland, repetitive solo ways to get it. It will be botted until the day TQ closes, and nothing will ever stop that. ...Then when you stopped to think about it. All you really said was Lalala. |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:43:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Janis Ezra Edited by: Janis Ezra on 09/03/2011 15:24:35
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex 2995.94Ç KiaDuplex 1877.66Ç
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
Icarantus has the highscore! I mailed him this link. He said its not true and he wrote a petition
Cheater in denying guilt non-shocker.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:45:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 14:20:28 CCP will not do anything about it should the list be real, because it is not one of their logs and even if CCP can match IP addresses with character names may these have come from another source for such a forgery. Unless CCP can look into the bank accounts and see the real money transfer then really anyone can come up with such a list.
Not entirely true as apparently EN had obtained list which got real names of those involved also. However they did not publish that part. ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:46:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 15:46:44
Originally by: Furb Killer @Whitehound, so now the issue is not RMT but the issue is that people complain about cheating? Really? You got issues.
I wrote what the issue is. It is bad press.
EVE is going to drown in self-righteous and self-proclaimed e-sheriffs one day. Look at you, you are already acting like some German pompous brick of 1939.
All players on that list, no matter if the list is wrong or right, will get harassed over the next weeks. You will fall over each other like a medieval mob over witches.
Miners get bumped around between the asteroids with MWD-driven battleships every day already. Hulkageddon 1-4 aims at whoever could theoretically be a bot or macro. Now this list with names?!
EVE is a dark place, but it is going to be as dark as Europe was in 1939-45. --
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:53:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 15:46:44
Originally by: Furb Killer @Whitehound, so now the issue is not RMT but the issue is that people complain about cheating? Really? You got issues.
I wrote what the issue is. It is bad press.
EVE is going to drown in self-righteous and self-proclaimed e-sheriffs one day. Look at you, you are already acting like some German pompous brick of 1939.
All players on that list, no matter if the list is wrong or right, will get harassed over the next weeks. You will fall over each other like a medieval mob over witches.
Miners get bumped around between the asteroids with MWD-driven battleships every day already. Hulkageddon 1-4 aims at whoever could theoretically be a bot or macro. Now this list with names?!
EVE is a dark place, but it is going to be as dark as Europe was in 1939-45.
So a bunch of cheaters (with maybe a few innocents) are going to get hassled in EVE?
And this is worse than the normal state of people getting hassled how? Why is it worse to suicide gank someone for (probably) buying ISK than it is to gank them for lulz?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:57:00 -
[81]
KiaDuplex$6,787.94 Icarantus$6,675.27
Who the hell is pathetic enough to spend that much money on a stupid video game? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services Quantum Forge
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:57:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Whitehound
All players on that list, no matter if the list is wrong or right, will get harassed over the next weeks. You will fall over each other like a medieval mob over witches.
Good! and relating this post/news to 1939 is fail... Really pretty weak post on your part.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 15:58:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Malcanis So a bunch of cheaters (with maybe a few innocents) are going to get hassled in EVE?
How do you know they are cheaters? Because EveNews24 tells you?
What makes this worse is that these players will not get killed for lulz, but because you think they are cheaters, that they deserve it and that it is right and justified!
Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I could be wrong though. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:02:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Whitehound What makes this worse is that these players will not get killed for lulz, but because you think they are cheaters, that they deserve it and that it is right and justified!
His point is that if they get killed, it's right and justified regardless.
Quote: Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I could be am wrong though.
Fix'd. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:05:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis So a bunch of cheaters (with maybe a few innocents) are going to get hassled in EVE?
How do you know they are cheaters? Because EveNews24 tells you?
What makes this worse is that these players will not get killed for lulz, but because you think they are cheaters, that they deserve it and that it is right and justified!
Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I could be wrong though.
Worried about the next tranche of names to be released (eveisk.ru later in the week) are we? You're certainly not disinterested thats for sure
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:05:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I could be am wrong though.
Fix'd.Troll'd.
There. --
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Ana Vyr
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:05:00 -
[87]
Wow...I had never imagined that folks would cheat on such a scale in a pretend spaceship game.
|
Christos Hendez
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:06:00 -
[88]
http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=profile&id=423666580
Value of Blinks Won 1,004,588,000,150 ISK
Icarantus $6,675.27
heh, discuss. ----- Russian | English | French
AAA Diplomat WAR.H |
ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:06:00 -
[89]
I¦m not getting how everybody is so amused by this.
Reading about RMTa and CCP¦s lackluster response(1 day bans, seriously CCP?) saps my will to log into this game and invest any more of my lifetime gaining meager amounts of isk to actually get something done. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari Rogue Drone Systems
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:06:00 -
[90]
So... wow.
This is a very interesting thread.
But I have to ask... is everyone on that list a complete idiot? Why are you buying ISK when it's practically lying around free for the taking? There's soooooo much ISK in Eve now.
|
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:08:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia
Quote: Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I am wrong though.
Fix'd.
There.
Look. If you know something is wrong, why post it?
Correcting someone's obvious (and probably deliberate) errors is not the same as trolling. Deliberately posting something that is wrong, on the other handà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:09:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 15:46:44
Originally by: Furb Killer @Whitehound, so now the issue is not RMT but the issue is that people complain about cheating? Really? You got issues.
I wrote what the issue is. It is bad press.
EVE is going to drown in self-righteous and self-proclaimed e-sheriffs one day. Look at you, you are already acting like some German pompous brick of 1939.
All players on that list, no matter if the list is wrong or right, will get harassed over the next weeks. You will fall over each other like a medieval mob over witches.
Miners get bumped around between the asteroids with MWD-driven battleships every day already. Hulkageddon 1-4 aims at whoever could theoretically be a bot or macro. Now this list with names?!
EVE is a dark place, but it is going to be as dark as Europe was in 1939-45.
Wow, so people are gonna get hassled? Really? That's worse than all this RMT'ing going on? Makes you wonder you have an alt in that list somewhere huh.
--- Drykor - AHARM |
Nina Mercedez
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:09:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound What makes this worse is that these players will not get killed for lulz, but because you think they are cheaters, that they deserve it and that it is right and justified!
His point is that if they get killed, it's right and justified regardless.
Quote: Did you check if your name is not on this list? I think I saw it somewhere on it. I could be am wrong though.
Fix'd Fixed.
Fixed.
|
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:14:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Christos Hendez http://cogdev.net/blink/?act=profile&id=423666580
Value of Blinks Won 1,004,588,000,150 ISK
Icarantus $6,675.27
heh, discuss.
Wow, that's even more pathetic. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:16:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I thought I had died and gone to rpg heaven when the first gold box dnd games came out for the c64. Oh the glorious adventures my trusty party of six daring adventurers had plus you could let your friends play by passing the controller. No more dice rolls and charts and overbearing gm's! \o/
*waxes nostalgic*
Pff. Wasteland > all, especially some silly D&D.
Yes there were many wonderful rpg games besides dnd. I just used it as an example as it was one of the first computer based translations that was better than the pnp equivalent. Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Janis Ezra Edited by: Janis Ezra on 09/03/2011 15:24:35
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex 2995.94Ç KiaDuplex 1877.66Ç
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
Icarantus has the highscore! I mailed him this link. He said its not true and he wrote a petition
Cheater in denying guilt non-shocker.
Well not saying he is innocent but all we really have for proof is some fansite with heavy bias posting a list that anyone could makeup. And even if its an actual db crack nothing stopping some hated rivals to be included on the list just to get back at them. Given the highly political nature of the game that could be damaging enough to get a person kicked and put on permanent kos even without ccp lifting a finger about it.
Wheels within wheels within wheels.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Kale Kold
V i r u s Pendulum of Doom
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:17:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis So a bunch of cheaters (with maybe a few innocents) are going to get hassled in EVE?
How do you know they are cheaters? Because EveNews24 tells you?
I smell another iskbank customer with something to hide! lol!
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:17:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Drykor Wow, so people are gonna get hassled? Really? That's worse than all this RMT'ing going on? Makes you wonder you have an alt in that list somewhere huh.
What is your problem with all this RMT'ing then? Are you jelous that you are not making even close the sums of ISKs they do? Are you such a loser that you have to become some internet hero? Or is it because you have no goals in EVE that you can only think of making yourself CCP's deputy? Show me where the cheaters have touched you ...
I hope the worse that comes out of this anonymous list from somewhere is that CCP gives these players a warning. If it leads to a massive ban then someone will come up with a forgery if it is not already one.
Then, when it is too late and you name is on that list when it should not be and you get banned, will you think differently. Until then are you only clueless. --
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Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:19:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kale Kold
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis So a bunch of cheaters (with maybe a few innocents) are going to get hassled in EVE?
How do you know they are cheaters? Because EveNews24 tells you?
I smell another iskbank customer with something to hide! lol!
Hehe back under your bridge! But seriously, leak a list of paedophiles or ultra-nationalist party membership etc. What better way to discredit people. |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:20:00 -
[99]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/03/2011 16:21:03
Assuming the information can be verified, every player on that list needs to be permabanned. |
Janos Saal
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:22:00 -
[100]
God damn I love drama. |
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Nina Mercedez
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/03/2011 16:21:03
Assuming the information can be verified, every player on that list needs to be permabanned.
Or at least get a 3-day ban from the forums. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:36:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 16:36:31
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/03/2011 16:21:03
Assuming the information can be verified, every player on that list needs to be permabanned.
Or at least get a 3-day ban from the forums.
I would not mind a permanent ban if it is true. You only cannot prove it. Until CCP can look into the bank accounts and get an authentic list of money transfers from a trusted bank, not some shack in a 3rd world country with a sign "Bank" on its roof for instance, are all these dollar sums behind the names meaningless. They could all be just $0. --
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 16:43:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 16:18:49
Originally by: Drykor Wow, so people are gonna get hassled? Really? That's worse than all this RMT'ing going on? Makes you wonder you have an alt in that list somewhere huh.
What is your problem with all this RMT'ing then? Are you jealous that you are not making even close the sums of ISKs they do? Are you such a loser that you have to become some internet hero? Or is it because you have no goals in EVE that you can only think of making yourself CCP's deputy? Show me where the cheaters have touched you ...
I hope the worse that comes out of this anonymous list from somewhere is that CCP gives these players a warning. If it leads to a massive ban then someone will come up with a forgery if it is not already one.
Then, when it is too late and your name is on that list when it should not be and you get banned, will you think differently. Until then are you only clueless.
I think he doth protest too much...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:46:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 16:36:31
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/03/2011 16:21:03
Assuming the information can be verified, every player on that list needs to be permabanned.
Or at least get a 3-day ban from the forums.
I would not mind a permanent ban if it is true. You only cannot prove it. Until CCP can look into the bank accounts and get an authentic list of money transfers from a trusted bank, not some shack in a 3rd world country with a sign "Bank" on its roof for instance, are all these dollar sums behind the names meaningless. They could all be just $0.
They don't need any r/l bank interaction. They can do all the investigation required within their own database. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:47:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I thought I had died and gone to rpg heaven when the first gold box dnd games came out for the c64. Oh the glorious adventures my trusty party of six daring adventurers had plus you could let your friends play by passing the controller. No more dice rolls and charts and overbearing gm's! \o/
*waxes nostalgic*
Pff. Wasteland > all, especially some silly D&D.
Yes there were many wonderful rpg games besides dnd. I just used it as an example as it was one of the first computer based translations that was better than the pnp equivalent. Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Janis Ezra Edited by: Janis Ezra on 09/03/2011 15:24:35
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex 2995.94Ç KiaDuplex 1877.66Ç
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
Icarantus has the highscore! I mailed him this link. He said its not true and he wrote a petition
Cheater in denying guilt non-shocker.
Well not saying he is innocent but all we really have for proof is some fansite with heavy bias posting a list that anyone could makeup. And even if its an actual db crack nothing stopping some hated rivals to be included on the list just to get back at them. Given the highly political nature of the game that could be damaging enough to get a person kicked and put on permanent kos even without ccp lifting a finger about it.
Wheels within wheels within wheels.
No-one's saying that anyone should be banned on the unsupported word of EveNews-24. However, the origin of this list, combined with the other information they gathered and presented to CCP would seem to make a good starting point for investigation.
If and when this occurs, it may well be that friend Icarantus has a few multi-billion ISK transfers from disposable ISK-mules to explain to the GMs.
If the GMs find said explainations unconvincing, then I presume you would agree that he should be appropriately penalised.
If Icarantus wants to take pre-emptive action to clear his name, then the well-known option of posting his full API is of course always open to him
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Oriele Aldent
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:49:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 16:36:31
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/03/2011 16:21:03
Assuming the information can be verified, every player on that list needs to be permabanned.
Or at least get a 3-day ban from the forums.
I would not mind a permanent ban if it is true. You only cannot prove it. Until CCP can look into the bank accounts and get an authentic list of money transfers from a trusted bank, not some shack in a 3rd world country with a sign "Bank" on its roof for instance, are all these dollar sums behind the names meaningless. They could all be just $0.
But considering that the full list has items purchased and dates, it's possible to check whether said accounts received the items. IMHO that should be proof enough for CCP. They don't really need to follow any official procedures, fair trial or any of that. They own any content on EVE and if this list is proof enough for them, they could easily act on it.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:50:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Malcanis I think he doth protest too much...
I think he's worried about what's coming next
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:52:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Malcanis I think he doth protest too much...
I happen to like EVE, and I neither like people who buy ISKs for real money nor do I like forum trolls who post only crap. --
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:54:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 16:36:31
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 09/03/2011 16:21:03
Assuming the information can be verified, every player on that list needs to be permabanned.
Or at least get a 3-day ban from the forums.
I would not mind a permanent ban if it is true. You only cannot prove it. Until CCP can look into the bank accounts and get an authentic list of money transfers from a trusted bank, not some shack in a 3rd world country with a sign "Bank" on its roof for instance, are all these dollar sums behind the names meaningless. They could all be just $0.
They don't need any r/l bank interaction. They can do all the investigation required within their own database.
One would imagine this is the case. If the char that received the money from the isk site is the char named in that list, surely they can look that char up. Presumably people think they are wise to delete the char, but maybe a paper-trail remains. Identify the final recipient, and give them a 24 hour ban for being bad little boys.
There, everyone's a winner.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:56:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Malcanis No-one's saying that anyone should be banned on the unsupported word of EveNews-24. However, the origin of this list, combined with the other information they gathered and presented to CCP would seem to make a good starting point for investigation.
If and when this occurs, it may well be that friend Icarantus has a few multi-billion ISK transfers from disposable ISK-mules to explain to the GMs.
If the GMs find said explainations unconvincing, then I presume you would agree that he should be appropriately penalised.
If Icarantus wants to take pre-emptive action to clear his name, then the well-known option of posting his full API is of course always open to him
Yes because he has nothing to hide he should feel perfectly fine to invite a full public scrutiny of his personal records. Since you also have nothing to hide why don't you post yours? So let ccp investigate and if he is guilty they will either ban him or nuke his wallet. Both of those effectively screw him over without going for the raging mob option.
Hrmmm, I swear I am hearing the sound of jackboots from somewhere.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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WIlly Fisterbottom
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:56:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Malcanis I think he doth protest too much...
Indeed. This sounds like a job for fully insured battleships in maximum alpha configuration.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:56:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Wyke Mossari What I find surprising is the scale of the operation. A turn over of hundred of thousands of dollars a month by one operation is actually pretty staggering and is about about 100 times bigger than I ever suspected.
25k a month, actually, give or take. _
Make ISK||Build||React||1k papercuts _
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 16:56:00 -
[113]
/popcorn - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:01:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Oriele Aldent But considering that the full list has items purchased and dates, it's possible to check whether said accounts received the items. IMHO that should be proof enough for CCP. They don't really need to follow any official procedures, fair trial or any of that. They own any content on EVE and if this list is proof enough for them, they could easily act on it.
But how do you know that these items were actually bought with real money?
For example: you run an alliance with your own forum. One day you are all upset about the failure of your alliance, blame all your members for it and now seek payback. So you take everyone's e-mail address and IP address from the forum software. Then you give away stuff for free or just check your transaction logs or whatever ... and create a list with player names, IP addresses and replace the ISK amounts with real money amounts.
How could you tell the difference?
The truth is that you are missing the final piece of the puzzle - the bank transactions - that make this a real money transfer. So until you have this proof there is no real money involved. --
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:01:00 -
[115]
LOL, nice work, now following evenews24 on twitter.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:04:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Malcanis No-one's saying that anyone should be banned on the unsupported word of EveNews-24. However, the origin of this list, combined with the other information they gathered and presented to CCP would seem to make a good starting point for investigation.
If and when this occurs, it may well be that friend Icarantus has a few multi-billion ISK transfers from disposable ISK-mules to explain to the GMs.
If the GMs find said explainations unconvincing, then I presume you would agree that he should be appropriately penalised.
If Icarantus wants to take pre-emptive action to clear his name, then the well-known option of posting his full API is of course always open to him
Yes because he has nothing to hide he should feel perfectly fine to invite a full public scrutiny of his personal records. Since you also have nothing to hide why don't you post yours? So let ccp investigate and if he is guilty they will either ban him or nuke his wallet. Both of those effectively screw him over without going for the raging mob option.
Hrmmm, I swear I am hearing the sound of jackboots from somewhere.
I said the option was open to you, sorry, I mean him, not that he was required to.
And seriously, did you just godwin this thread about MMO RMTing?
I tell you what, I'll make you a deal;
If he posts his full API in this thread and keeps that API active for 24 hours after he posts it, then I'll post mine for both my accounts.
Alternatively, we can both supply them to a mutually agreed trusted third party for RMT audit. But I'd prefer the public option, keeping things nice and transparent.
You can ask anyone in this game who knows me - I don't scam, I don't cheat, and I always keep my word.
How's that for a deal?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:04:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Oriele Aldent But considering that the full list has items purchased and dates, it's possible to check whether said accounts received the items. IMHO that should be proof enough for CCP. They don't really need to follow any official procedures, fair trial or any of that. They own any content on EVE and if this list is proof enough for them, they could easily act on it.
But how do you know that these items were actually bought with real money?
For example: you run an alliance with your own forum. One day you are all upset about the failure of your alliance, blame all your members for it and now seek payback. So you take everyone's e-mail address and IP address from the forum software. Then you give away stuff for free or just check your transaction logs or whatever ... and create a list with player names, IP addresses and replace the ISK amounts with real money amounts.
How could you tell the difference?
The truth is that you are missing the final piece of the puzzle - the bank transactions - that make this a real money transfer. So until you have this proof there is no real money involved.
So you're saying that the bans due to RMT to this point have had no basis? Presumably CCP never had bank records for those bans, either.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:10:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Barakkus on 09/03/2011 17:11:11
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Oriele Aldent But considering that the full list has items purchased and dates, it's possible to check whether said accounts received the items. IMHO that should be proof enough for CCP. They don't really need to follow any official procedures, fair trial or any of that. They own any content on EVE and if this list is proof enough for them, they could easily act on it.
But how do you know that these items were actually bought with real money?
For example: you run an alliance with your own forum. One day you are all upset about the failure of your alliance, blame all your members for it and now seek payback. So you take everyone's e-mail address and IP address from the forum software. Then you give away stuff for free or just check your transaction logs or whatever ... and create a list with player names, IP addresses and replace the ISK amounts with real money amounts.
How could you tell the difference?
The truth is that you are missing the final piece of the puzzle - the bank transactions - that make this a real money transfer. So until you have this proof there is no real money involved.
You don't work for CCP or any other MMO company I'm guessing. All of the MMOs out there that do not allow RMT have methods of tracking transactions back to the source and can tell if it's RMT or not. You'd be surprised how much data they keep. For instance in EQ2, I did a server transfer and lost some house items. A GM came on and went through their logs all the way back to when I created the character and tracked down every item's source and where it "ended up". It turned out the items in question hadn't been picked up or moved since some server mergers a year or two prior and ended up with "no owner" so they got deleted during the transfer. The GM was able to successfully replace every item that ended up getting deleted during the server transfer.
Don't be so naive. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Loki Nahat
Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:10:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Whitehound
How could you tell the difference?
The truth is that you are missing the final piece of the puzzle - the bank transactions
Uh, what?
Your Characters (and therefore CCP) have records of ISK transactions. Those, plus the new leaked documents, are all you need to do to correlate the two... and implicate char/accounts.
Surely.
It's not exactly the pogrom Whitehound fears, it's bloody logic.
Or am I missing something?
Loki
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:11:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Janis Ezra Edited by: Janis Ezra on 09/03/2011 15:24:35
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex 2995.94Ç KiaDuplex 1877.66Ç
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
Icarantus has the highscore! I mailed him this link. He said its not true and he wrote a petition
Translation... he soiled himself, panicked and is now worrying about losing his account.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:12:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 17:13:28
Originally by: Whitehound But how do you know that these items were actually bought with real money?
The same way they tell in all other instances: by following the money trail back to the farmer (or RMT courier, should he be known).
Quote: For example: you run an alliance with your own forum. [à] How could you tell the difference?
Presumably, you've not done this constantly and consistently for the last two years and you've never figured in any other RMT investigations.
Also: woo! Three in a row! ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:17:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Malcanis And seriously, did you just godwin this thread about MMO RMTing?
I tell you what, I'll make you a deal;
If he posts his full API in this thread and keeps that API active for 24 hours after he posts it, then I'll post mine for both my accounts.
Alternatively, we can both supply them to a mutually agreed trusted third party for RMT audit. But I'd prefer the public option, keeping things nice and transparent.
You can ask anyone in this game who knows me - I don't scam, I don't cheat, and I always keep my word.
How's that for a deal?
Still a bad deal. For all we know that alt that claimed to have mailed him the link to the thread and forwarded his reply is just another faceless troll looking to drum up some action. This is how you let the jackboots in by falling for unsupported accusations that are not backed up with solid proof. But hey he is an accused jew isk buyer after all so he must be guilty by default.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:17:00 -
[123]
Honestly, I have my doubts on the authenticity of the list, I think evenews24 just likes stirring up publicity, but who cares, makes for good reading material while I'm stuck at work :P - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Joe SMASH
You Got A Purty Mouth
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:17:00 -
[124]
if this is legit and CCP can somehow follow the ISK transfers from obvious alts to mains, I say ban each and every single one of them. Permanently.
However... I will expect to see a statement from CCP saying, "The logs show nothing. Sorry." -----------------------------------
More stuff goes here. |
TyeBaak
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:18:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Malcanis
I tell you what, I'll make you a deal;
If he posts his full API in this thread and keeps that API active for 24 hours after he posts it, then I'll post mine for both my accounts.
Alternatively, we can both supply them to a mutually agreed trusted third party for RMT audit. But I'd prefer the public option, keeping things nice and transparent.
You can ask anyone in this game who knows me - I don't scam, I don't cheat, and I always keep my word.
How's that for a deal?
Posting APIs in these forums is not permitted. You'd have to take it off-site.
But, TBH there was a post on page 2 that kinda sums my feelings: Kind of a sigh...a 'meh' and perspective on the whole game. You add-in some of the posts in this thread, and it's like stepping out of line and looking back and seeing that I was involved with a bunch of really awful people and I'm not talking about just the RMTers. They are just cheaters. Some of the respondents in this thread appear to be really really awful people with terrible perspectives on the world.
There are too many other good games out there. I think I'll be unchecking the 'auto-renew' button and just keep an eye on this thread for the next few weeks.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:19:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Barakkus
You don't work for CCP or any other MMO company I'm guessing. All of the MMOs out there that do not allow RMT have methods of tracking transactions back to the source and can tell if it's RMT or not. You'd be surprised how much data they keep. For instance in EQ2, I did a server transfer and lost some house items. A GM came on and went through their logs all the way back to when I created the character and tracked down every item's source and where it "ended up". It turned out the items in question hadn't been picked up or moved since some server mergers a year or two prior and ended up with "no owner" so they got deleted during the transfer. The GM was able to successfully replace every item that ended up getting deleted during the server transfer.
Don't be so naive.
I know Eve has asset tracking tools for GMs as back in 2003 I lost the contents of a giant can down in Tenerifis - this was before the time anchoring came in. I was AFG and had no idea about the changes that anchoring brought so when I came back - year or so later - I petitioned.
Much to my surprise all the items were replaced. I suspect that the audit trail isn't as long as it once was but it ought to be long enough to permaban some of the people on that list. Or not if its a "forgery" as some would like us to believe....
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:20:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Janis Ezra I think this thread wont live long.
a) namecalling b) CCP dont care
You have to be a billionaire to not care about getting jacked for over a quarter of a million, and ccp aint billionaires.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:20:00 -
[128]
Originally by: TyeBaak
Posting APIs in these forums is not permitted. You'd have to take it off-site.
But, TBH there was a post on page 2 that kinda sums my feelings: Kind of a sigh...a 'meh' and perspective on the whole game. You add-in some of the posts in this thread, and it's like stepping out of line and looking back and seeing that I was involved with a bunch of really awful people and I'm not talking about just the RMTers. They are just cheaters. Some of the respondents in this thread appear to be really really awful people with terrible perspectives on the world.
There are too many other good games out there. I think I'll be unchecking the 'auto-renew' button and just keep an eye on this thread for the next few weeks.
CCP doesn't need to say **** about this really. They have no "responsibility" to do as such and I certainly wouldn't expect them to comment. It's no one's business if they get banned or not. CCP will do their job and we'll sit on the forums pontificating on the subject of RMT until we're blue in the face.
Can I haz ur stuffz? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Roman Clevik
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:20:00 -
[129]
CCP silence is like a stone
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:22:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Cipher Jones on 09/03/2011 17:22:36
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
What about the issue of the reliability of the "evidence?"
At any point in the chain of custody names could have been added or removed to/from the db, so how can CCP be expected to enact any enforcement based on it? Are they supposed to go through name-by-name and check each wallet? Only punish "major" offenders? That hardly seems fair?
Very eye-opening, but not really actionable on it's face. Hopefully it works to enlighten CCP and players and maybe discourage people from patronizing such sites.
Because CCP has a copy of the database. Not the one that may or may have not been sent in, theirs.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:29:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez So you're saying that the bans due to RMT to this point have had no basis? Presumably CCP never had bank records for those bans, either.
Yes and no. Yes, because unless CCP has got access to the bank accounts can they not say if real money is involved. And no, because it is CCP's game and they can ban people for almost any reason they like.
If you remember, the Unholy Rage was aimed at bots that ate too much CPU power of their servers, not because these were RMTs. These were likely run by ISK sellers, but it did not make it a proof. The proof and the justification for CCP's action was the high CPU usage. A few players ruined the game performance for many, which I as a paying customer find acceptable.
Now, CCP will likely consider players (or IP addresses and ranges) as ISK sellers when they see a high CPU usage for some systems, when there is some automatic routine going on (i.e. 23/7 ratting), or anything else that can be considered to be a bot with a 99%-likelihood.
If CCP can find a connection between such bots and another, regular player then they can use this as a basis for their decision. However, the longer the chain gets the more blurry it also gets and sooner or later will everyone have received ISKs from a bot in some way even if it took 20 other players to get to you.
But do not forget that even our justice system makes mistakes. CCP then bans people for just a day it seems. So if anyone innocent gets caught with it can these players still return. If real money was actually transferred is something one will likely never know. --
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GM Grimmi
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:30:00 -
[132]
We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
GM Grimmi
Lead Game Master
EVE CSS |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:32:00 -
[133]
Originally by: GM Grimmi A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Make sure to schedule a camera crew (and good audio) for that one, because I have a sneaking suspicion that it'll be the presentation that the most non-attendees will be interested inà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Callum545
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:33:00 -
[134]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Well first you could start looking at the accounts leaked and look to see if huge amounts of isk have gone to these accounts or accounts associated with them
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:33:00 -
[135]
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Oriele Aldent
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:35:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Whitehound
But how do you know that these items were actually bought with real money?
For example: you run an alliance with your own forum. One day you are all upset about the failure of your alliance, blame all your members for it and now seek payback. So you take everyone's e-mail address and IP address from the forum software. Then you give away stuff for free or just check your transaction logs or whatever ... and create a list with player names, IP addresses and replace the ISK amounts with real money amounts.
How could you tell the difference?
The truth is that you are missing the final piece of the puzzle - the bank transactions - that make this a real money transfer. So until you have this proof there is no real money involved.
The thing is, CCP don't need a definite proof that there's real money involved. All they need is to suspect it, they don't have to prove it to anyone. Potentially they could just delete every character and still be legally providing the service you paid for as long as you can connect to the server and play. So it boils down to weather CCP consider this list accurate.
Also, though you tried to describe a general possibility, it doesn't really work in this case, as you would have to have given away 2 trillions of isk to seemingly random people.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:35:00 -
[137]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here.
I hope you are looking into it even though you obviously can't comment on it.
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leboe
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:38:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Callum545
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Well first you could start looking at the accounts leaked and look to see if huge amounts of isk have gone to these accounts or accounts associated with them
You would be amazed at how people can launder isk.
My favorite example (no proof behind it, but it demonstrates just how bulletproof it can be) is if you take two chars, one with a titan the other with lots of isk (a botting account, for example) and sell the titan through Chribba, from one char to the other. That isk transfer is now legitimate, and you've maintained that the 2 chars are 'different' people so that when the botting account is banned for botting, the person holding the isk is untouched.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:38:00 -
[139]
I've seen at least one person on the list posting on the forums awhile back.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:51:00 -
[140]
Dear CCP,
Fix this. If none of your current employees is qualified to do it, hire someone who is.
Your game is broken. Its 'economy' is a farce. You've just been handed a list of perps. Start up the woodchipper and start biomassing toons, deleting accounts and removing the trillions of ISK involved.
Or stay silent, do nothing, and watch your company fail as spectacularly as your game has.
P.S. Make the doll-playing part optional. There's enough performance issues with your game already.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:54:00 -
[141]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 17:55:10
Originally by: Joe Skellington I've seen at least one person on the list posting on the forums awhile back.
I recognized one player on this list, but this is not my concern, rather his. I also trade with a lot of minerals and sometimes a single player fills my entire buy order with a single load of minerals. An amount for which you would need 10 Hulks and mine for 12 hours for example. I am pretty sure that some who sell me minerals used a macro for mining the ore.
What is more concerning is that if CCP is effective in their fight against RMTs then the RMTs could try to fight back by hurting the EVE community and with leaked lists of their customers. In other words, if they (RMTs) cannot make their money then they burn their customers only to take them with them. I doubt there is much moral among RMTs not to do this. I certainly do not wish to be caught in any of it. --
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 17:55:00 -
[142]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson Dear CCP,
Fix this. If none of your current employees is qualified to do it, hire someone who is.
Your game is broken. Its 'economy' is a farce. You've just been handed a list of perps. Start up the woodchipper and start biomassing toons, deleting accounts and removing the trillions of ISK involved.
Or stay silent, do nothing, and watch your company fail as spectacularly as your game has.
P.S. Make the doll-playing part optional. There's enough performance issues with your game already.
You're not very bright are you? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Killer Gandry
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:01:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Barakkus You're not very bright are you?
Being bright isn't a requirement to play EVE.
Do not fear death so much but rather the inadequate life. |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:01:00 -
[144]
Originally by: leboe
You would be amazed at how people can launder isk.
My favorite example (no proof behind it, but it demonstrates just how bulletproof it can be) is if you take two chars, one with a titan the other with lots of isk (a botting account, for example) and sell the titan through Chribba, from one char to the other. That isk transfer is now legitimate, and you've maintained that the 2 chars are 'different' people so that when the botting account is banned for botting, the person holding the isk is untouched.
Dude, remember, better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open oneÆs mouth and remove all doubt. (Your example is asinine, unless being minus one titan is your idea of 'untouched'.)
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:02:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Killer Gandry
Originally by: Barakkus You're not very bright are you?
Being bright isn't a requirement to play EVE.
lol hey Killer, how you doin' baldy? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:10:00 -
[146]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Sorry Grimmi,
if your so called methods and tools would be of any use these kind of threads wouldnt appear And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure
Also in before Icarantus and KiaDuplex who will tell us the earth is flat.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:18:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure
I believe their policy is to temp ban then permaban after a certain threshold of bannings is reached. They do want to retain customers ya know. While I think they should permaban on violation 1, it doesn't hurt to give people the opportunity to reform. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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DurrHurrDurr
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:18:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Sorry Grimmi,
if your so called methods and tools would be of any use these kind of threads wouldnt appear And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure
Also in before Icarantus and KiaDuplex who will tell us the earth is flat.
Bunch of dudes in the NC have received ~warnings~ for confirmed botting, which is funny as hell.
They really don't care; it drives the PLEX market and makes them more money. You guys keep thinking they'll do anything about it. They'll stomp out enough of these RMTers to make a nice devblog about it, calm down the forum uproar, and then ignore it for another year until you peasants need to be calmed down again.
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Maplestone
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:20:00 -
[149]
So how does an out-of-game transaction manage to outcompete the ingame PLEX market despite all the added risks (both in game and out of game)? If nothing else, this must give CCP a wonderful dataset to analyze the business model of an RMT organization and model the impact of different ways of disrupting them.
The sum of money on the table to be reclaimed from the RMT trader business will easily pay the salary of a full time analyst :)
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:20:00 -
[150]
How about some of the Corps and/or alliances stepping up and publicly kicking members who appear on this list?
Or, heaven forbid, a CSM candidate whose corpmates/alliancemates appear on the list step up and say something?
A short perusal of the list and looking them up in-game yielded some interesting trends.
Throwaway alts or not, a lot of these chars are currently members of someone's corp.
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Snuffallahpagus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:22:00 -
[151]
Originally by: GM Grimmi At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
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DurrHurrDurr
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:22:00 -
[152]
Edited by: DurrHurrDurr on 09/03/2011 18:22:58
Originally by: Maplestone So how does an out-of-game transaction manage to outcompete the ingame PLEX market despite all the added risks (both in game and out of game)? If nothing else, this must give CCP a wonderful dataset to analyze the business model of an RMT organization and model the impact of different ways of disrupting them.
The sum of money on the table to be reclaimed from the RMT trader business will easily pay the salary of a full time analyst :)
The most prolific RMT groups are run by people with large arrays of bots. They'll also purchase ISK from players in financial trouble or looking to make a quick buck. They buy it cheap because the seller very rarely has the connections or resources to sell it at a premium price. The buyer then adds it to the pool of collected ISK, through both botting and purchasing, to sell at a markup.
They can outcompete CCP because of the botting faucet; a botting Tengu can cover the cost of a PLEX to keep the account running in roughly four days. Past that, it's all profit.
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Azirapheal
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:24:00 -
[153]
Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$338.06 Icarantus$316.07 Icarantus$283.94 Icarantus$243.21 Icarantus$211.56 Icarantus$186.80 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$179.33 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$173.72 Icarantus$128.14 Icarantus$112.08 Icarantus$99.38 Icarantus$94.82 Icarantus$60.34
wow, just wow.
Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails I decided to make some kind of deterrant against people casually entering my passage
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:25:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Snuffallahpagus
Originally by: GM Grimmi At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
I will translate Grimmi's politik-speak for you:
"At this time we cannot comment on why we are wholly ineffectual at fighting botting and RMT, because our meagre salaries are paid for by the subscription and plex income generated by thousands upon thousands of Bot accounts."
I am disappointed, but not surprised.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:30:00 -
[155]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 18:31:41
Originally by: Whitehound What is more concerning is that if CCP is effective in their fight against RMTs then the RMTs could try to fight back by hurting the EVE community and with leaked lists of their customers. In other words, if they (RMTs) cannot make their money then they burn their customers only to take them with them. I doubt there is much moral among RMTs not to do this. I certainly do not wish to be caught in any of it.
So let me get this correct, the thing you are most afraid of right now is that other RMT'ers release their customer data? And I am sure you are going to try to wiggle yourself out of this, but it is really what you are saying. You do not say you are afraid of it because they might add legit players in the list, it is literally that you are afraid they burn their customers.
Good luck getting out of this one, I can give you advice how you could prevent being caught in it, but i think you know where i am heading...
Btw you really dont get it, do you? GMs cannot check every transaction manually. However with char names, dates and IP addresses they can get from evenews they can manually check every transaction of that char arround that time. And look there, he happened to 'scam' a certain char named "jkwFJK347" out of 5B ISK by selling him 1 tritanium. Or he happened to find a golem previously owned by that char floating in space. CCP really should not and does not require more evidence.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:30:00 -
[156]
Originally by: DurrHurrDurr
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Sorry Grimmi,
if your so called methods and tools would be of any use these kind of threads wouldnt appear And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure
Also in before Icarantus and KiaDuplex who will tell us the earth is flat.
Bunch of dudes in the NC have received ~warnings~ for confirmed botting, which is funny as hell.
They really don't care; it drives the PLEX market and makes them more money. You guys keep thinking they'll do anything about it. They'll stomp out enough of these RMTers to make a nice devblog about it, calm down the forum uproar, and then ignore it for another year until you peasants need to be calmed down again.
If botting has no consequeses at all why are there alot of WI. / RZR on the buyers list, I thought the NC is rich as f u c k
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:33:00 -
[157]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: DurrHurrDurr
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Sorry Grimmi,
if your so called methods and tools would be of any use these kind of threads wouldnt appear And for the permanent ban part: I know someone who used to run a bot in Stain and he was back after 3 days... go figure
Also in before Icarantus and KiaDuplex who will tell us the earth is flat.
Bunch of dudes in the NC have received ~warnings~ for confirmed botting, which is funny as hell.
They really don't care; it drives the PLEX market and makes them more money. You guys keep thinking they'll do anything about it. They'll stomp out enough of these RMTers to make a nice devblog about it, calm down the forum uproar, and then ignore it for another year until you peasants need to be calmed down again.
If botting has no consequeses at all why are there alot of WI. / RZR on the buyers list, I thought the NC is rich as f u c k
Because tbh they are idiots. Everyone who RMTs is an idiot. And not just because they cheat, but if you want a relative small and fast injection of ISK a plex is way easier, if you want more you buy botting software and you use that considering CCP cares a bit about RMT and nothing about botting.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:36:00 -
[158]
everyone who spent >$1k
KiaDuplex 6787.94 Icarantus 6675.27 commander chielzzz 2930.60 Darth Shaddo 2820.91 Knotte 2435.24 Inkazi 2421.52 see below notes 2221.45 HDMIm8 2013.31 MurphysLaw1 1668.38 Trevana 1631.57 Mat Rix 1548.67 Cooyaw 1527.37 gogetting 1470.90 Ragnar Sinned 1373.13 gazenth 1332.62 Kasaga 1273.72 xCryptor 1266.71 Blooberty 1266.36 Ian Cole 1247.66 Darth Andar 1228.26 jonas6000 1207.91 Zeftan 1199.94 RyanAndrew 1110.99 Luci3 1088.30 Alestra Mosvani 1030.03 notare 1020.06 Thryson 1008.79 pleomaxx 1002.75
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:38:00 -
[159]
So I crunched the numbers and was surprised to discover that the only people playing EVE are me, Icarantus, and 50,000 bots.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:44:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 18:31:41
Originally by: Whitehound What is more concerning is that if CCP is effective in their fight against RMTs then the RMTs could try to fight back by hurting the EVE community and with leaked lists of their customers. In other words, if they (RMTs) cannot make their money then they burn their customers only to take them with them. I doubt there is much moral among RMTs not to do this. I certainly do not wish to be caught in any of it.
So let me get this correct, the thing you are most afraid of right now is that other RMT'ers release their customer data? And I am sure you are going to try to wiggle yourself out of this, but it is really what you are saying. You do not say you are afraid of it because they might add legit players in the list, it is literally that you are afraid they burn their customers.
Good luck getting out of this one, I can give you advice how you could prevent being caught in it, but i think you know where i am heading...
Btw you really dont get it, do you? GMs cannot check every transaction manually. However with char names, dates and IP addresses they can get from evenews they can manually check every transaction of that char arround that time. And look there, he happened to 'scam' a certain char named "jkwFJK347" out of 5B ISK by selling him 1 tritanium. Or he happened to find a golem previously owned by that char floating in space. CCP really should not and does not require more evidence.
He really does sound more than a little panicked. I hope you're ready to be compared to a Gestapo agent
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Spin Spin Sugar
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:50:00 -
[161]
Originally by: bitters much everyone who spent >$1k
everyone who spent >$1k
KiaDuplex6787.94 [NPC corp - 2003 character previous KIA corp] Icarantus6675.27 Mesopotamians [MPOTS] commander chielzzz2930.60 Unknown Soldiers [UNSOL] , Wildly Inappropriate [WI.] Darth Shaddo2820.91 Tropa de Elite [TROPA] , Vera Cruz Alliance [VCRUZ] Knotte2435.24 [NPC corp] Inkazi2421.52 [NPC corp] see below notes2221.45 [deleted character] HDMIm82013.31 [deleted character] MurphysLaw11668.38 MurphysLaw1 Corporation [ML1C] , Freelancer Coalition [FREE] Trevana1631.57 [NPC corp] Mat Rix1548.67 SIMC [SIMCM] Cooyaw1527.37 Silver Crown Trade [ZOET] (also was in Exile I [EMXX]) gogetting1470.90 [NPC corp] Ragnar Sinned1373.13 Exile I [EMXX] , Cascade Associates [FAILA] gazenth1332.62 Kinetic Cartel [KNTC] , Shadow of xXDEATHXx [X.W.X.] Kasaga1273.72 Amok. [AM0K] , Goonswarm Federation [CONDI] xCryptor1266.71 Crypt Corp [CR-CO] Blooberty1266.36 All Tactical Telemetry Training [ATTT] Ian Cole1247.66 [NPC corp - 2006 character] Darth Andar1228.26 Uprising Inc [U.INC] jonas60001207.91 [deleted character] Zeftan1199.94 [NPC corp - although 2006 character with large history] RyanAndrew1110.99 [NPC corp] Luci31088.30 [deleted character - although there are others using same format] Alestra Mosvani1030.03 Pegasus Battle Group [PEGA] , Imperial 0rder [I0] notare1020.06 [deleted character] Thryson1008.79 Pure Evil Warriors [.PEW.] , The Devil's Warrior Alliance [DEVIL] pleomaxx1002.75 The New Era [TNERA] , Convicted [A.I.F.]
Corps and alliances added :)
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:51:00 -
[162]
Edited by: bitters much on 09/03/2011 18:53:15
Yedi Mode on: Begun the Iskbuyergeddon has...
Happy hunting
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:54:00 -
[163]
Dear Helicity,
QFT
These are serious accusations being brought up, of course CCP can't say anything about it, most likely because they don't want the website or the people to cover their tracks before appropriate punishment can be delivered.
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos Word of Chaos Undivided
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:55:00 -
[164]
A surprising number of familiar names there.
~No matter what happens, somebody will find a way to take it too seriously.~
Tiericide |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 18:56:00 -
[165]
Banning these accounts wouldn't necessarily be a money-loser for CCP. For starters, any time currently on the account has already been paid for and would be forfeit (as well as all those PLEX that the cheaters have accumulated.) A lot of these accounts will be replaced, in the hopes that being 'more careful' will avoid future bans. CCP could also charge a premium like $50/mth/account to allow known cheaters to resubscribe (maybe the toons could have a scarlet letter tattooed to their foreheads as well.)
But just from a public relations/reputation standpoint you'd think CCP would care that their flagship game has been reduced to a RMT/botfest due to their dereliction of duty/incompetence. Don't they realize that the success of their future games relies to a significant degree on the reputation they have for supporting their current game?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:02:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 19:04:47
Originally by: Furb Killer So let me get this correct, the thing you are most afraid of right now is that other RMT'ers release their customer data? And I am sure you are going to try to wiggle yourself out of this, but it is really what you are saying. You do not say you are afraid of it because they might add legit players in the list, it is literally that you are afraid they burn their customers.
Good luck getting out of this one, I can give you advice how you could prevent being caught in it, but i think you know where i am heading...
You seem to have grasped it quite well, only you are too dumb to be afraid that all of a sudden your account could get banned. What do you do then? Complain to CCP?
Once CCP makes their decision and ban your account permanently can you only start a new one. Years of EVE, should you have been playing for years, will have been invested in a wasted hobby.
So if you are not afraid that you could get caught in it then biomass right now. It will all be good. These are not the droids you are looking for anyway.
Originally by: Furb Killer Btw you really dont get it, do you? GMs cannot check every transaction manually. However with char names, dates and IP addresses they can get from evenews they can manually check every transaction of that char arround that time. And look there, he happened to 'scam' a certain char named "jkwFJK347" out of 5B ISK by selling him 1 tritanium. Or he happened to find a golem previously owned by that char floating in space. CCP really should not and does not require more evidence.
It is you who does not get it, dumbdumb. An ISK transaction is not a real money transaction. It still is only an ISK transaction. So if you accidentally type the numbers for a market order into the wrong field and do buy 1 tritanium for one billion ISK should you, by your own logic, get banned. We should leave this open for discussion however. Should people who get scammed, or who scam, should get banned for the possibility of being involved in real money transfers?! --
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speedek
Spricer
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:13:00 -
[167]
Originally by: GM Grimmi ... and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans...
What about you start banning ppl more often for things like that? Taking money from them doesn't solve ****.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:13:00 -
[168]
All of you whining about how there's no way to tell if it's RMT or not are over simplifying what they do to investigate RMT.
You can whine about it all you want, but they can and do identify what is RMT and what is not. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Pham Lai
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:19:00 -
[169]
Lol...Icarantus became instantly famouse after a post on evenews24.
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned. All of those thousands of USD invested become nothing. A win win solution for CCP to make more money and combat RMT is to increase the isk cost for FLEX...make a minimum price for these item maybe?
A 30 days FLEX cost about 15$ and sells for about 320mil. Whereas in RMT,15$ will buy more than 320mil...>=350mil maybe? So for a isk greedy/desperately-needy player, RMT will net more isk.
So if CCP implement a minimum price requirement for the FLEX to be sold at equal or higher than the price of RMT...people will definately buy FLEX.
CCP, you can hire me and i will perform pricecheck daily for ya so that the FLEX minimum sell price will be competitive with those RMT guys.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:23:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Pham Lai Lol...Icarantus became instantly famouse after a post on evenews24.
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned. All of those thousands of USD invested become nothing. A win win solution for CCP to make more money and combat RMT is to increase the isk cost for FLEX...make a minimum price for these item maybe?
A 30 days FLEX cost about 15$ and sells for about 320mil. Whereas in RMT,15$ will buy more than 320mil...>=350mil maybe? So for a isk greedy/desperately-needy player, RMT will net more isk.
So if CCP implement a minimum price requirement for the FLEX to be sold at equal or higher than the price of RMT...people will definately buy FLEX.
CCP, you can hire me and i will perform pricecheck daily for ya so that the FLEX minimum sell price will be competitive with those RMT guys.
That's an astonishingly bad idea. All you will achieve is to create a black market in PLEX, which inevitably leads to people getting involved in RMT and not bothering with PLEX at all.
See for instance: the soviet bloc 1919-1989 for why price controls do not increase production.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:25:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Pham Lai Lol...Icarantus became instantly famouse after a post on evenews24.
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned. All of those thousands of USD invested become nothing. A win win solution for CCP to make more money and combat RMT is to increase the isk cost for FLEX...make a minimum price for these item maybe?
A 30 days FLEX cost about 15$ and sells for about 320mil. Whereas in RMT,15$ will buy more than 320mil...>=350mil maybe? So for a isk greedy/desperately-needy player, RMT will net more isk.
So if CCP implement a minimum price requirement for the FLEX to be sold at equal or higher than the price of RMT...people will definately buy FLEX.
CCP, you can hire me and i will perform pricecheck daily for ya so that the FLEX minimum sell price will be competitive with those RMT guys.
Dude...PLEX not FLEX.
And yeah...let's have the RMTers decide the pricepoint for PLEX. +1 to you.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:26:00 -
[172]
Whitehound... you constantly keep saying that anyone can make these lists up. I already pointed earlier that this is not just random list of random game aliases, but list with real names linked to game aliases and emails.
You obviously missed the following parts from the article:
Originally by: part of evenews article "Eve News24Æs editorial team engaged in serious debate about the idea of publishing the list of Iskbank.com customer names. We agreed that any and all the personal information in the database (email addresses, phone numbers, et cetera) should not be made public under any circumstances."
Originally by: part of evenews article "We can assume that CCP was given a copy of the Iskbank.com database by the same person who sent it to us. Even if this wasnÆt the case, when we made our initial request for an interview, we also provided them with the database."
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:26:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 19:27:50
Originally by: Barakkus All of you whining about how there's no way to tell if it's RMT or not are over simplifying what they do to investigate RMT.
You can whine about it all you want, but they can and do identify what is RMT and what is not.
And you cannot deny it that if CCP is being more and more successful in their fight against RMTs that the fight will only get harder and that it will affect innocent players. There is a war going on between CCP and the RMTs and no war is ever clean or perfect.
If you are playing EVE long enough then you know that in the wars we play in-game never anything is the way it seems. There is spying, meta gaming, propaganda, etc.. Why would you think that it is different in the real world? Because it is a wonderful thought to think that someone provides CCP will the ultimate list of cheaters? What a wonderful thought ... The V's have visted us and brought with them the list of EVE cheaters \o/
This list could be true, it could be bait, it could be completely false. I would not trust it in the world or for anything if I was CCP. I hope CCP just continues going after RMTs the way they know best. --
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:29:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Pham Lai
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned.
I don't. Cheating bastards should be banned for life.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:30:00 -
[175]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson Dear CCP,
Fix this. If none of your current employees is qualified to do it, hire someone who is.
Your game is broken. Its 'economy' is a farce. You've just been handed a list of perps. Start up the woodchipper and start biomassing toons, deleting accounts and removing the trillions of ISK involved.
Or stay silent, do nothing, and watch your company fail as spectacularly as your game has.
P.S. Make the doll-playing part optional. There's enough performance issues with your game already.
Dear idiot.
The game isnt broken, its economy isnt a farce and the game isnt failing. In fact if your opinion of CCP and of this game is so low, then what the hell are you doing here? You seem totally uninformed regarding even the most simple things, right down to the fact that it is well known that Incarna will be optional and that it runs on a seperate server, so no lag issues for the rest of us.
Was there something else you wanted to be totally wrong about or is that enough for one day?
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Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar Surface Detail
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:32:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Snuffallahpagus
Originally by: GM Grimmi At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
I will translate Grimmi's politik-speak for you:
"At this time we cannot comment on why we are wholly ineffectual at fighting botting and RMT, because our meagre salaries are paid for by the subscription and plex income generated by thousands upon thousands of Bot accounts."
I am disappointed, but not surprised.
I think its safe to assume that the majority of bot accounts are paid for by plex, and therefore CCP aren't having their wages paid for by them, but rather by the people purchasing the plex in the first place.
Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
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sHERU
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:35:00 -
[177]
Apparently the unholy rage MKII is already starting.
But this time it's the players them self, I noticed quite a few of these people on the list got booted out of there corporation today.
For example KIADuplex, got booted out of Unkown Soldiers today. SOONÖ |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:36:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Whitehound... you constantly keep saying that anyone can make these lists up. I already pointed earlier that this is not just random list of random game aliases, but list with real names linked to game aliases and emails.
I did not miss it, Grey. You missed where I explained that one can get such a list in different ways, i.e. by running your own game forum. You then can collect IP numbers, player names and email addresses if you ask for it in the registration process. Any idea how many corporations and alliances run their own forum and do have this information? --
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:36:00 -
[179]
A 30-day server rollback would be annoying as heck, but it sure would mess-up those RMTers accounting (and cost them real money). CCP could just throw an apology and a stack of SP to to the players for the inconvenience. We tend to have short memories.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:40:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla A 30-day server rollback would be annoying as heck, but it sure would mess-up those RMTers accounting (and cost them real money). CCP could just throw an apology and a stack of SP to to the players for the inconvenience. We tend to have short memories.
If you fight RMTs with a rollback and then compensate everyone with SPs then RMTs have sold SPs to you. Those who buy ISKs for real money may not have bought any ISKs after the rollback but they will certainly not complain about the extra SPs they get in exchange. --
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:41:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Whitehound... you constantly keep saying that anyone can make these lists up. I already pointed earlier that this is not just random list of random game aliases, but list with real names linked to game aliases and emails.
I did not miss it, Grey. You missed where I explained that one can get such a list in different ways, i.e. by running your own game forum. You then can collect IP numbers, player names and email addresses if you ask for it in the registration process. Any idea how many corporations and alliances run their own forum and do have this information?
How many of them also keep records of payments of real cash for items?
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:41:00 -
[182]
A certain percentage of the playerbase are bots, that is a given.
That there is a tolerable level is also a given for Eve's owners, providing the game is robust and CCPs cash-flow is healthy enough to pay the bills and make a profit. Spending an inordinate amount of resources to combat this scourge doesn't make sense either.
I expect vermin in the world's food warehouses could be eradicated completely, but at what cost?
I enjoy the game, the economy seems stable enough, and I know I've been in systems with bots but they don't bother me. I earn my Isk legitimately and ultimately, the satisfaction I get from the challenges I undertake and overcome is where I get the value of my subscription.
I am interested in how all this plays out, but it will not stop me from logging in tonight.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:43:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 19:27:50
Originally by: Barakkus All of you whining about how there's no way to tell if it's RMT or not are over simplifying what they do to investigate RMT.
You can whine about it all you want, but they can and do identify what is RMT and what is not.
And you cannot deny it that if CCP is being more and more successful in their fight against RMTs that the fight will only get harder and that it will affect innocent players. There is a war going on between CCP and the RMTs and no war is ever clean or perfect.
If you are playing EVE long enough then you know that in the wars we play in-game never anything is the way it seems. There is spying, meta gaming, propaganda, etc.. Why would you think that it is different in the real world? Because it is a wonderful thought to think that someone provides CCP will the ultimate list of cheaters? What a wonderful thought ... The V's have visted us and brought with them the list of EVE cheaters \o/
This list could be true, it could be bait, it could be completely false. I would not trust it in the world or for anything if I was CCP. I hope CCP just continues going after RMTs the way they know best.
Again with the strawman that CCP will - or should - ban anyone purely based on this list
HAY EVERYONE WHITEHOUND BUYS ISK!
Well damb, now you're gonna get banned or lose all your ISK right? because an unsupported accusation from a random source is all it takes?
No, in fact CCP will investigate your account to see if you have received large amounts of ISK from known ISK mules. And they'll not even bother investigating you because of my accusation because I'm not a credible source of information. I have no way of knowing anything about your economic activity.
But a list of ISK buyers provided by an ISK seller merits a rather closer look. Again, it's not in itself sufficient evidence for any direct action, but it definitely is enough to merit taking a close look at the characters listed. And if any accounts are punished or banned, it will be because of that investigation, not because they're on that list.
All your fear-mongering strawmanning is stuff that has been posted and refuted many times. No, you don't get punished for accidentally selling a few cans of ore to an ISK buyer. Yes you will get punished if you're found to have "luckily" sold 1 defender missile for 2 billion ISK to a guy called IskBank017 who also bought multiple other individual defender missiles for massive prices.
But I suppose you'll ignore that, just as you defend "players" who continue warping their pods between belt and station for 10 hours after getting the mining barge ganked as "having their own playstyle".
Anyway, as you'll ignore all of that and make more ludicrious Godwinising comments, I'll comfort myself that maybe someone else will read and understand why you're so full of it.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Arasul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:43:00 -
[184]
Posting to thank evenews24. And to say for gods sake CCP do something about this, how hard can it be. I could petition a macro ratter every 5 minutes in stain if I thought you'd actually pull your finger out. Get a grip.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:46:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Whitehound And you cannot deny it that if CCP is being more and more successful in their fight against RMTs
Not to nitpick here Whitehound, but I see absolutely zero evidence of this "success".
All I saw when I went to take stock of the damage of HAG, was tons of pods stitting belts long after their wrecks had been salvaged... This seems to me, to be more evidence of the contrary...
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Ephemeron
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:46:00 -
[186]
We need more community driven hacking attacks against ISK selling websites.
That should go hand in hand with whatever measures CCP implements to combat bots in game. Ideally there should be communication between CCP and the hacker groups, so they can share intelligence for smarter target selection.
I hope we see more of this in near future
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Hermosa Diosas
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:47:00 -
[187]
Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 09/03/2011 19:48:31 Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 09/03/2011 19:47:37 OK OK Firstly you have to stop calling these guys cheaters and scum yada yada. They not cheating anything, they are using a GAME MECHANIC to make real money. To be honest most people would do it if they had the know how or the bottle. I mean thousands of pounds just by setting up some bots and ratting isk? no brainer! (And before you think it i dont do it no!)
Why because the GAME allows them to do it..This is purely the fault of CCP this happens. If they wanted to stop this happening they could do very easily.
Remove Local Use some captcha method for mining Encrypt the local client data instead of having free text List goes on..
CCP choose not to even bother about this cos it generates income! Why cut off the hand that feeds you?
They have to do the token gesture on actually account hacking, but for botting and macros nothing.
And why do you think CCP introduce PLEX? Think about it..
Need to wake up and smell the coffee gentlemen.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:47:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Whitehound
And you cannot deny it that if CCP is being more and more successful in their fight against RMTs that the fight will only get harder and that it will affect innocent players.
It never changes actually, it's just a self-perpetuating situation for every MMO company. There is no sure-fired way to stop RMT in any MMO. People do get banned that shouldn't and upon pursuing the matter usually get un-banned.
Here's an example...in August 2006 SOE took down EQ2, in it's entirety for a whole week. It seems there was a way to dupe items that was worse than previous dupe exploits that they caught on to. During that week they had to re-engineer the market back end and some other stuff before they could bring the servers back up it was so bad. They initially tried to make all cash from market transactions appear on your character directly, but found something wrong with that, so they started mailing the money...but that was broken too. Eventually they said **** it and took everything offline and rolled everything back a week or so since the exploit got out there and was being heavily used. Thousands upon thousands of people were banned, some of which were innocent. A friend of mine got banned because he was receiving more money than the sales from the market were supposed to be depositing. I guess if you zoned at the exact time there was a market transaction taking place for your character it would duplicate the money. After a week or two with the petition stuff he got got his account unbanned.
**** happens, and RMT is the bane of all MMOs that don't allow it. CCP has a unique approach to it with GTC and PLEX, but it still won't ever completely eradicate the problem. No matter what they do, short of just shutting down EVE, RMT will always be out there, and they will continue to ban/punish people they can determine with 99.999999999999999% accuracy that it is indeed RMT. There will be a small number of people banned that were legit, but in the vast majority of cases, someone ****ed up and stupidly bought dirty game currency. Part of the reason they don't permaban immediately is due to the margin of error in detecting RMT, which is probably how it should be from a business standpoint as well. You don't exactly want to just outright cut off income and lose subscribers due to the off chance that someone legit gets banned.
All the blah, blah, blah "what about those of us who are going to cancel zomg b/c we're fed up?!?!?!!" Well, in all honesty, those people should just gtfo now because they're pretty useless as a customer if they're going to throw a temper tantrum all the time. It costs more to keep the "I'm taking my stuff and going home" types happy than it's worth in a lot of cases. What you see on the forums is less than 5% of the playerbase, and it's usually the most vocal...so really it doesn't mean **** when people start screaming about cancelling this that or the other thing on the internet.
When they don't ban someone it's either because they want to more data to trace other RMT accounts with or they just can not be certain that RMT was taking place. Same reason they can't eradicate all bots...someone will find a way around getting caught, and CCP will have to discover this new method and deal with that as well...it's a never ending cycle...and something we're just going to have to live with.
I personally don't really give a **** as long as there's some semblance of effort being put into catching cheaters. There's only so much you can do, and will never be 100% effective. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:48:00 -
[189]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 19:55:53
Originally by: baltec1 How many of them also keep records of payments of real cash for items?
How many can you prove to be correct? Non. So you can add any number to it.
I already wrote that without the proof of the real money transfer you could also write "$0" behind each name. What would then be the meaning of this list? --
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:49:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Whitehound And you cannot deny it that if CCP is being more and more successful in their fight against RMTs
Not to nitpick here Whitehound, but I see absolutely zero evidence of this "success".
All I saw when I went to take stock of the damage of HAG, was tons of pods stitting belts long after their wrecks had been salvaged... This seems to me, to be more evidence of the contrary...
Not that I want to back him up but CCP is much much better at dealing with people who buy the isk the bots make.
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ed jeni
SKULLDOGS RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:49:00 -
[191]
I was going to post a long thread that condenses down to basically, i buy GTC's from SC and either sell em on forum or convert to plex, i use this isk to fund our corp in 0.0 and supply a decent ship replacement program so that pvp lolz can be had by all. so whats the difference between me buying isk for ú$ and RMT ? well the difference is my ú$ goes to CCP who should use that income to grow the game i love to play, to be better and worth my time. But time and again over the last few years CCP are letting me down with broken game mechanics that seem to never get fixed and shiny new space barbie that i neither asked for, nor want. yes CCP get income from bot accounts but sure as hell they loose a ton more from the isk those bots launder to other accounts. EVE is being tarnished with the huge number of bots running within the game, which is a 2 fold problem, 1 players leave and rage-quit as they think BOT derived isk gives the elite few players/corps/alliances an unfair advantage. 2 new people don't sign up as its not a secret among the MMO community that EVE has become a game populated by bots (and who wants to play when that's the case) of course its not that bad yet, but given CCP's attitude and approach to the problem over the last year it sure as hell soon will be. and before u post a reply asking, no you cant haz it ! so basically will the last live player to leave tranquility please turn off the lights, and dont let the door hit you on the way out.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:49:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 09/03/2011 19:47:37 OK OK Firstly you have to stop calling these guys cheaters and scum yada yada. They not cheating anything, they are using a GAME MECHANIC to make real money.
It's against the stated rules of the game, therefore cheating. Oversimplification ftw. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:51:00 -
[193]
I haven't seen this much of a concerted 'muddy the waters' effort since the Monkeyspank hack went public.
Unfortunately y'all are cluttering up this thread while making it hard for people to find my posts.
Differentiating between bots/addicts and rmt/legitimate scams was exceedingly difficult UNTIL NOW. CCP just had all the evidence they need and more handed to them on a silver platter. Real names. Credit card #. Dates. Amounts.
There is no excuse for them not to act. Decisively.
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:52:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 How many of them also keep records of payments of real cash for items?
How many can you prove to be correct? No. So you can add any number to it.
I already wrote that without the proof of the real money transfer you could also write "$0" behind each name. What would then be the meaning of this list?
They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
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sHERU
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:52:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia A certain percentage of the playerbase are bots, that is a given.
That there is a tolerable level is also a given for Eve's owners, providing the game is robust and CCPs cash-flow is healthy enough to pay the bills and make a profit. Spending an inordinate amount of resources to combat this scourge doesn't make sense either.
I expect vermin in the world's food warehouses could be eradicated completely, but at what cost?
I enjoy the game, the economy seems stable enough, and I know I've been in systems with bots but they don't bother me. I earn my Isk legitimately and ultimately, the satisfaction I get from the challenges I undertake and overcome is where I get the value of my subscription.
I am interested in how all this plays out, but it will not stop me from logging in tonight.
The +/- $345,000 that went to iskbank (read: Vadims pockets) could have potentialy ended up in ccp's pockets.
There are more online shops like these, and I don't dare to ponder how much money goes around in this market. But I am pretty sure it will be more then plenty to fund a few devs to work on some nice features for EVE Online. SOONÖ |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:54:00 -
[196]
Originally by: baltec1
They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
Because everything you read on the internet must be true! - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:55:00 -
[197]
What about the other half of the equation? Are we to assume that iskbank's handful of employees accumulate all of that isk to sell? Using bots, etc. in NPC corps?
Or do they also buy isk for resale? If they had some source for large, regular volumes of isk that they can buy and resell at 50%-100% markup...
Bah...crazy...who could possibly accumulate so much isk on a regular basis?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:55:00 -
[198]
Originally by: Malcanis HAY EVERYONE WHITEHOUND BUYS ISK!
Fail. You forgot to write how much I have bought like the list does.
Originally by: Malcanis No, in fact CCP will investigate your account to see if you have received large amounts of ISK from known ISK mules.
I do not mean to brag, but if I look at Chribba's EVEBoard am I already among the 100 richest players on his board. And I have many transactions over my wallet every day, being a trader. I am pretty sure that some can be found in my transaction log.
Originally by: Malcanis Anyway, as you'll ignore all of that and make more ludicrious Godwinising comments ...
I bet my use of Godwin did hurt. --
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:56:00 -
[199]
Originally by: sHERU I am pretty sure it will be more then plenty to fund a few devs to work on some nice features for World of Vampires and Space Barbies.
Fixed.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:56:00 -
[200]
Originally by: sHERU
There are more online shops like these, and I don't dare to ponder how much money goes around in this market. But I am pretty sure it will be more then plenty to fund a few devs to work on some nice features for EVE Online.
RMT is a multi-billion dollar industry. Why do you think China cracked down on RMT companies a year or two ago? They weren't getting their cut of the profits. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:56:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
What about the other half of the equation? Are we to assume that iskbank's handful of employees accumulate all of that isk to sell? Using bots, etc. in NPC corps?
Or do they also buy isk for resale? If they had some source for large, regular volumes of isk that they can buy and resell at 50%-100% markup...
Bah...crazy...who could possibly accumulate so much isk on a regular basis?
The russians? It does have a russian site afterall.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:57:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Whitehound
I did not miss it, Grey. You missed where I explained that one can get such a list in different ways, i.e. by running your own game forum. You then can collect IP numbers, player names and email addresses if you ask for it in the registration process. Any idea how many corporations and alliances run their own forum and do have this information?
Player names, email addresses yes - real names and phone numbers on bigger scale - unlikely. If something fishy can be found from isk transaction logs, this leaked data together with the logs will be solid enough for accurate actions if ccp chooses to do something.
If we would be talking about single character I would agree that above information could be forged. On big scale however isk source prolly can be traced down to something and if the source links with all characters on the list... you get the picture.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Ephemeron
Black Aces Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.03.09 19:58:00 -
[203]
You can't win the war if you only play defense. And that's what CCP is doing
There has to be an active and relentless offensive, attacking on all fronts, not just in-game, but using out of game tactics, such as hacker attacks, DoS'ing the websites, exposing private information of those involved.
The people in RMT business need to have real FEAR of doing business. Without fear, there can be no change in behavior.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:03:00 -
[204]
Helicity - all hulkageddon proves is people dont know how to read the forums.
Also I have seen CCP in action killing off botter, I myself have reported several, added them to my watch list to watch their behavior then a few days after my petition went in, they stopped logging in. You have to understand bot's are like roaches, for every roach you kill 5 more pop up into its place.
Next if you really want to help stop RMT and botting, look up some of those lvl 3 and lvl 4 courier agents fly to them and watch as you can sit there for 8-12 hours and see the same haulers docking and undocking. Repeatedly, if you get people to watch in groups you are going to see that most of the bots are haulers doing courier missions.
FINALLY Name a single mmo that doesnt have a bot of somesort?
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:04:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis No, in fact CCP will investigate your account to see if you have received large amounts of ISK from known ISK mules.
I do not mean to brag, but if I look at Chribba's EVEBoard am I already among the 100 richest players on his board. And I have many transactions over my wallet every day, being a trader. I am pretty sure that some can be found in my transaction log.
Ah, you are worried that people on that list have provided you with ISK, and thus you may be implicated and punished?
I'm all for that if it gets you off my forums.
Retro sig |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:05:00 -
[206]
First, I am not quite sure what happened.
Second, if it is that iskbank was an isk seller engaged in RMT, how did they get the word out they sold isk?
Very confusing.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:05:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Helicity Boson
Originally by: Snuffallahpagus
Originally by: GM Grimmi At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus...
Will you ever be?
/me shrugs.
I will translate Grimmi's politik-speak for you:
"At this time we cannot comment on why we are wholly ineffectual at fighting botting and RMT, because our meagre salaries are paid for by the subscription and plex income generated by thousands upon thousands of Bot accounts."
I am disappointed, but not surprised.
You are one of the biggest scumbags in EvE without question, for you to be dissapointed about it says a lot.
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:08:00 -
[208]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: sHERU I am pretty sure it will be more then plenty to fund a few devs to work on some nice features for World of Vampires and Space Barbies.
Hi, I keep forgetting that CCP Whitewolf has nothing to do with CCP EvE online and they get their own seperate funding from the Vampire the Masquerade books and other World of Darkness related sales.
Seriously why to people keep forgetting White Wolf is an independant entity. All they really did was just add CCP infront of their name. Also why are people so narrow minded to think CCP's only form of income is from eve online? DOES NO ONE remember pen and paper RPG's?
*goes down to the game store and points at a full book shelf of World of Darkness books and Vampire the Masquerade books with a clearly printed logo of CCP White Wolf.* That's where the funding for their Vampire MMO is coming from!
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:08:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa First, I am not quite sure what happened.
Second, if it is that iskbank was an isk seller engaged in RMT, how did they get the word out they sold isk?
Very confusing.
You find it with a google search, along with the many others.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:10:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Ephemeron You can't win the war if you only play defense. And that's what CCP is doing
There has to be an active and relentless offensive, attacking on all fronts, not just in-game, but using out of game tactics, such as hacker attacks, DoS'ing the websites, exposing private information of those involved.
The people in RMT business need to have real FEAR of doing business. Without fear, there can be no change in behavior.
I don't condone any illegal activity in order to crack down on RMT.
On the other hand I'm all for CCP publishing a list of anyone warned or banned for it. The very fact that Eve is a single universe makes that kind of punishment effective (assuming they identify the "main" character involved).
While there is a market for their "service" there will always be RMT. The trick is to reduce the demand because you'll never beat the supply.
Retro sig |
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:11:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa First, I am not quite sure what happened.
Second, if it is that iskbank was an isk seller engaged in RMT, how did they get the word out they sold isk?
Very confusing.
As if you of all people don't know
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:13:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa First, I am not quite sure what happened.
Second, if it is that iskbank was an isk seller engaged in RMT, how did they get the word out they sold isk?
Very confusing.
As if you of all people don't know
I don't. Eve "banks" are not something I follow.
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Mark It Zero
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:15:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Azirapheal Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$338.06 Icarantus$316.07 Icarantus$283.94 Icarantus$243.21 Icarantus$211.56 Icarantus$186.80 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$179.33 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$173.72 Icarantus$128.14 Icarantus$112.08 Icarantus$99.38 Icarantus$94.82 Icarantus$60.34
wow, just wow.
Have you played Somer.blink? It is horribly addictive.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:16:00 -
[214]
Edited by: Avon on 09/03/2011 20:15:48
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I don't. Eve "banks" are not something I follow.
Your sig is 202 bytes oversized. Just sayin' so you can fix it and stuff.
Retro sig |
Lubomir Penev
Sausages of Truth S I L E N T.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:18:00 -
[215]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak I¦m not getting how everybody is so amused by this.
Reading about RMTa and CCP¦s lackluster response(1 day bans, seriously CCP?) saps my will to log into this game and invest any more of my lifetime gaining meager amounts of isk to actually get something done.
Look at that cute noob that think CCP ever had a backbone. There are no macrominers in EVE |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:19:00 -
[216]
Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 09/03/2011 20:20:23
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 09/03/2011 20:15:48
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
I don't. Eve "banks" are not something I follow.
Your sig is 202 bytes oversized. Just sayin' so you can fix it and stuff.
Edit: on disk it shows 23.63 KB. That's under the legal limit.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:21:00 -
[217]
Originally by: baltec1 They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
Where did you read that EveNews24 have the credit card information, too? EveNews24 created some nice looking pictures of bills, but they are good with artwork at EveNews24. Not to mention the publicity it gives them ... --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:22:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 09/03/2011 20:15:48
Your sig is 202 bytes oversized. Just sayin' so you can fix it and stuff.
Actually, it's 374 bytes under the limit. Just sayin' so you can understand math and stuff.
Originally by: Forum rules
Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes (not Kbytes)
Your sig is 24202 bytes
Retro sig |
Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:23:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Cipher Jones
You are one of the biggest scumbags in EvE without question, for you to be dissapointed about it says a lot.
scumbag? Yes, then again, I do try. Which is more than I can say afor CCPs anti RMT efforts at this juncture.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:25:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
Where did you read that EveNews24 have the credit card information, too? EveNews24 created some nice looking pictures of bills, but they are good with artwork at EveNews24. Not to mention the publicity it gives them ...
Oh dear, who should we believe?
Your speculation is no more valid than theirs.
You sure do seem very keen on discrediting this whole thing though.
Retro sig |
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:27:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 09/03/2011 20:15:48
Your sig is 202 bytes oversized. Just sayin' so you can fix it and stuff.
Actually, it's 374 bytes under the limit. Just sayin' so you can understand math and stuff.
Originally by: Forum rules
Maximum file size: 24,000 bytes (not Kbytes)
Your sig is 24202 bytes
k. While I'm digging up the old PSD, maybe you could answer my question on the last page or I could report your posts for off-topic?
Man, it's great to be back on the forums.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:30:00 -
[222]
Where is Dark Shikari when you need him?
Or even Ginger Magician for that matter.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:30:00 -
[223]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 20:30:28
Originally by: Avon Your speculation is no more valid than theirs.
You sure do seem very keen on discrediting this whole thing though.
If I was you would I just keep an open mind.
And if you want my advise: never trust evidence that you did not find yourself.
I now have to leave. I need to slip an anonymous letter into my local police president's letter box. I think my neighbour is smoking pott. --
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:33:00 -
[224]
Originally by: Mark It Zero
Originally by: Azirapheal Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$338.06 Icarantus$316.07 Icarantus$283.94 Icarantus$243.21 Icarantus$211.56 Icarantus$186.80 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$179.33 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$173.72 Icarantus$128.14 Icarantus$112.08 Icarantus$99.38 Icarantus$94.82 Icarantus$60.34
wow, just wow.
Have you played Somer.blink? It is horribly addictive horrible.
I lasted about a week. Then forgot about its existence.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:34:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Hermosa Diosas OK OK Firstly you have to stop calling these guys cheaters and scum yada yada.
No we don't. Mainly because they are ù unquestionably ù cheating scum.
They (both buyers and sellers) are breaking the game rules to get ahead. They cheat. In doing so, they ruin the game for everyone else. They're scum. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:36:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Mark It Zero
Have you played Somer.blink? It is horribly addictive horrible.
I lasted about a week. Then forgot about its existence.
This ^^
I won a stealth bomber and an assault ship, then looked at the money I spent and decided I could have just bought them on the market for slightly less than I spent if I really wanted them. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:38:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
k. While I'm digging up the old PSD, maybe you could answer my question on the last page or I could report your posts for off-topic?
Man, it's great to be back on the forums.
Bloody hell, I was just trying to let you know so you can fix it - if the forums had a PM feature I would have done it that way.
Chew me out for trying to help why don't ya?
Feel free to report me for the OT post if it makes you feel better.
Retro sig |
Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:42:00 -
[228]
Originally by: Avon Bloody hell, I was just trying to let you know so you can fix it - if the forums had a PM feature I would have done it that way.
"Evemail"?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:48:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Avon Bloody hell, I was just trying to let you know so you can fix it - if the forums had a PM feature I would have done it that way.
"Evemail"?
-Liang
Wait, what? You think I actually play the game? I just pay to play the forums, and I am too stupid to do that whole Eve-gate thingmy bob.
Retro sig |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:52:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
Where did you read that EveNews24 have the credit card information, too? EveNews24 created some nice looking pictures of bills, but they are good with artwork at EveNews24. Not to mention the publicity it gives them ...
You're trying too hard. Way too hard. Is your heart pounding harder and harder in your chest with every passing beat? Do you feel the warm breath of CCP on the backs of the necks of the alts that do show up on the list? Oh no... can they trace your IP address through them? All that spent money is about to be vaporized, and you know there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, they're on to you now. Your days are numbers. All you have will be gone. You will be no more. Tha-thump tha-thump tha-thump... they're coming for you...
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Pham Lai
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:55:00 -
[231]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Pham Lai
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned.
I don't. Cheating bastards should be banned for life.
Whats the different between buying isk with real money and buying PlEXthensellingPLEXforisk with real money? Both come to the same thing...use real money to achieve more isk. The only different is that RMT does not bring money to CCP.
These people simply make the wrong (deemed wrong by CCP) choice to buy isk from RMTer instead of buying PlEXthensellingPLEXforisk from CCP. Its CCP's game and they have the right to restrict RMT, it's wrong for the RMT seller to sell CCP's property for money, but it is not wrong for the buyer to choose to buy a better deal....
If you buy PLEX and sell them for isk, you do not have the right to call these people cheater.
Im not supporting RMT....
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 20:56:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
Where did you read that EveNews24 have the credit card information, too? EveNews24 created some nice looking pictures of bills, but they are good with artwork at EveNews24. Not to mention the publicity it gives them ...
You're trying too hard. Way too hard. Is your heart pounding harder and harder in your chest with every passing beat? Do you feel the warm breath of CCP on the backs of the necks of the alts that do show up on the list? Oh no... can they trace your IP address through them? All that spent money is about to be vaporized, and you know there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, they're on to you now. Your days are numbers. All you have will be gone. You will be no more. Tha-thump tha-thump tha-thump... they're coming for you...
That would be amusing.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:00:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Pham Lai Whats the different between buying isk with real money and buying PlEXthensellingPLEXforisk with real money?
What's the difference between probing someone out and then shooting him with guns, and using a /travelto command and then a rapid-fire exploit?
One is legal. One is not. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Mikel Laurentson
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:02:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Ai Mei
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson
Originally by: sHERU I am pretty sure it will be more then plenty to fund a few devs to work on some nice features for World of Vampires and Space Barbies.
Hi, I keep forgetting that CCP Whitewolf has nothing to do with CCP EvE online and they get their own seperate funding from the Vampire the Masquerade books and other World of Darkness related sales.
Seriously why to people keep forgetting White Wolf is an independant entity. All they really did was just add CCP infront of their name. Also why are people so narrow minded to think CCP's only form of income is from eve online? DOES NO ONE remember pen and paper RPG's?
*goes down to the game store and points at a full book shelf of World of Darkness books and Vampire the Masquerade books with a clearly printed logo of CCP White Wolf.* That's where the funding for their Vampire MMO is coming from!
The combined profits from WW's lines would not pay for a DS game, let alone an MMO.
Sorry kid, but Even being #2 in the industry doesn't mean ****-all when the industry is RPGs.
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Mikel Laurentson
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:06:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Pham Lai
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Pham Lai
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned.
I don't. Cheating bastards should be banned for life.
Whats the different between buying isk with real money and buying PlEXthensellingPLEXforisk with real money? Both come to the same thing...use real money to achieve more isk. The only different is that RMT does not bring money to CCP.
These people simply make the wrong (deemed wrong by CCP) choice to buy isk from RMTer instead of buying PlEXthensellingPLEXforisk from CCP. Its CCP's game and they have the right to restrict RMT, it's wrong for the RMT seller to sell CCP's property for money, but it is not wrong for the buyer to choose to buy a better deal....
If you buy PLEX and sell them for isk, you do not have the right to call these people cheater.
Im not supporting RMT....
One of them gives money to the folk who feed the hamsters and paint your ships, the other does not.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:07:00 -
[236]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst You're trying too hard. Way too hard. Is your heart pounding harder and harder in your chest with every passing beat? Do you feel the warm breath of CCP on the backs of the necks of the alts that do show up on the list? Oh no... can they trace your IP address through them? All that spent money is about to be vaporized, and you know there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, they're on to you now. Your days are numbers. All you have will be gone. You will be no more. Tha-thump tha-thump tha-thump... they're coming for you...
I think that the argument about the list containing credit card numbers is made made up. People who read the EveNews24 article are starting to see what is not there. I went back to EveNews24 and read through the article, but I did not see any mentioning of credit card information.
If they had each player's credit card information, too, then it still would not be proof of a real money transfer, but it can be considered a "grim indicator" and an important link in the evidence chain, because one cannot get such information easily. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:12:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Whitehound If they had each player's credit card information, too, then it still would not be proof of a real money transfer, but it can be considered a "grim indicator" and an important link in the evidence chain, because one cannot get such information easily.
àof course, none of that matters since they don't need the CC information. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Janis Ezra
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:13:00 -
[238]
ISKBank Stats
thats why I said largscale PvP/Alliances are dead if CCP do something against RMT and 0.0 ratters.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:14:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 21:08:26 Troll. I think that the argument about the list containing credit card numbers is made made up. People who read the EveNews24 article are starting to see what is not there. I went back to EveNews24 and read through the article, but I did not see any mentioning of credit card information.
If they had each player's credit card information, too, then it still would not be proof of a real money transfer, but it can be considered a "grim indicator" and an important link in the evidence chain, because one cannot get such information easily.
They don't need proof. They don't actually even need hard evidence... it's their game. If the data shows enough to their satisfaction that your alts were used to buy isk... well, nothing you do from this point on in the game matters. It's all wasted effort pending your deletion. Yeah, they see you defending the isk buyers in this thread... they're looking at you in the database now, hard. All that cash flow across your IP, dates matching up with the evebank files... oh, you feel them, don't you? They're in your account, in your computer, even under your bed, watching, waiting to strike.
Good bye.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:14:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 21:08:26
Originally by: Ingvar Angst You're trying too hard. Way too hard. Is your heart pounding harder and harder in your chest with every passing beat? Do you feel the warm breath of CCP on the backs of the necks of the alts that do show up on the list? Oh no... can they trace your IP address through them? All that spent money is about to be vaporized, and you know there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, they're on to you now. Your days are numbers. All you have will be gone. You will be no more. Tha-thump tha-thump tha-thump... they're coming for you...
Troll. I think that the argument about the list containing credit card numbers is made made up. People who read the EveNews24 article are starting to see what is not there. I went back to EveNews24 and read through the article, but I did not see any mentioning of credit card information.
If they had each player's credit card information, too, then it still would not be proof of a real money transfer, but it can be considered a "grim indicator" and an important link in the evidence chain, because one cannot get such information easily.
The hole you are digging is just geting bigger and bigger. Would you like a JCB to help you?
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:16:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Pham Lai
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Pham Lai
Anyway, I kinda few bad for these people if they ever get banned.
I don't. Cheating bastards should be banned for life.
Whats the different between buying isk with real money and buying PlEXthensellingPLEXforisk with real money?
What's the difference between buying something from a shop and buying something from a shoplifter? In both cases you're buying goods with money.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:17:00 -
[242]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 They have their credit cards and other personal info that they are not going to be giving out to the public. Sorry but that is far too much evidence to just say "gotta be fake". You do sound like you are deperatly trying to cast some mist over this.
Where did you read that EveNews24 have the credit card information, too? EveNews24 created some nice looking pictures of bills, but they are good with artwork at EveNews24. Not to mention the publicity it gives them ...
EN24 accepting and partly publishing customer/private information obtained by hacking a company database is probably illegal, not that i think anyone with any kind of authority really cares about a company that sells funny money used in a computer game.
On the other hand you can be sure that someone cares if they have accepted a database containing valid credit card information and publicly disclosed parts of the information, that is likely to get you in the kind of trouble where it's not to say anything without attorney present.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:21:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Tippia on 09/03/2011 21:21:14
Originally by: Whitehound Nonsense. If the names on this list match with CCP's own information then it is merely a happy coincidence, a fun fact, but nothing of value to CCP's efforts. They cannot even use this information to pat themselves on their backs, because the list is not one of their own efforts, it cannot be trusted and therefore not used for a verification. I wonder if you can understand this ...
àand I wonder if you understand that they don't need the CC information to ban people for RMT. And they most certainly can use that list in their efforts. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:21:00 -
[244]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst They don't need proof. They don't actually even need hard evidence... it's their game. If the data shows enough to their satisfaction that your alts were used to buy isk... well, nothing you do from this point on in the game matters. It's all wasted effort pending your deletion. Yeah, they see you defending the isk buyers in this thread... they're looking at you in the database now, hard. All that cash flow across your IP, dates matching up with the evebank files... oh, you feel them, don't you? They're in your account, in your computer, even under your bed, watching, waiting to strike.
Good bye.
8 pages have past of which how many you have read? ... Troll. --
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:21:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia àof course, none of that matters since they don't need the CC information.
Nonsense. If the names on this list match with CCP's own information then it is merely a happy coincidence, a fun fact, but nothing of value to CCP's efforts. They cannot even use this information to pat themselves on their backs, because the list is not one of their own efforts, it cannot be trusted and therefore not used for a verification. I wonder if you can understand this ...
But they can use it as a good guide for who to investigate. I wonder if you can understand that...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
sise XXL
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:21:00 -
[246]
The iskbank has hacked one of EVE player ( from Croatia). And he had send petetion to CCP 03.04.2011, what CCP have answered:
Link removed for posting GM correspondence. Zymurgist
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:23:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia àof course, none of that matters since they don't need the CC information.
Nonsense. If the names on this list match with CCP's own information then it is merely a happy coincidence, a fun fact, but nothing of value to CCP's efforts. They cannot even use this information to pat themselves on their backs, because the list is not one of their own efforts, it cannot be trusted and therefore not used for a verification. I wonder if you can understand this ...
CCP could ban everyone on that list, and anyone who has transacted with those characters, on a whim. That is the bit you are failing to understand.
There is no burden of proof.
Retro sig |
Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:23:00 -
[248]
There's a lot of people ****ting their pants in this thread, lol.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:25:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Joe Skellington There's a lot of people ****ting their pants in this thread, lol.
It seems more like one person; with very big pants.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:32:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Avon CCP could ban everyone on that list, and anyone who has transacted with those characters, on a whim. That is the bit you are failing to understand.
There is no burden of proof.
8 pages have past you undiscovered. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:35:00 -
[251]
Heh, it is you that is banging on with the same old rhetoric, regardless of what others have to say.
I think I have probably noticed more of the posts than you. :)
Retro sig |
Durnin Stormbrow
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:36:00 -
[252]
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 09/03/2011 21:36:00
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia àof course, none of that matters since they don't need the CC information.
Nonsense. If the names on this list match with CCP's own information then it is merely a happy coincidence, a fun fact, but nothing of value to CCP's efforts. They cannot even use this information to pat themselves on their backs, because the list is not one of their own efforts, it cannot be trusted and therefore not used for verification. I wonder if you can understand this ...
It sounds like you think CCP has the burden of proof as if they were going to prosecute someone in court. They don't need any evidence to simply deny a subscription and refund the paying account; they could do that on a whim to any player or group of players they choose for no more reason than doing it makes them giggle. You don't own your character or any property controlled by the character, nor do you have possession of those things; you have a limited license to digital stuff that that resides on their server, and they can withdraw that license at any time. Since they do need to keep some sort of appearance of fairness, they'll want to have good cause before dropping the ban hammer, but they don't need proof.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:36:00 -
[253]
Thread cleaned. Posting of Off-topic and trolling posts, GM correspondence, and discussions of illegal activities are not permitted on the forums. Please remember to post within the forum rules at all times.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact Us |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:37:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Whitehound 8 pages have past you undiscovered.
Maybe you should read them, then, instead of banging on about something CCP has no need of in order to ban people for RMT:ingà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:37:00 -
[255]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 21:37:42
Originally by: Avon Heh, it is you that is banging on with the same old rhetoric, regardless of what others have to say.
I think I have probably noticed more of the posts than you. :)
This is because you cannot read and only notice posts.
@Tippia: why do you think I mention these 8 pages? Any ideas?? --
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:39:00 -
[256]
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
-- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:42:00 -
[257]
Originally by: Whitehound why do you think I mention these 8 pages? Any ideas??
Because you're trying to deflect the issue from the fact that no CC information is needed for CCP to ban people for RMT:ing and that they most certainly can use the information in that list to pursue people suspected of it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:43:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
CCP follows the isk trail back to the suppliers.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:46:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound why do you think I mention these 8 pages? Any ideas??
Because you're trying to deflect the issue from the fact that no CC information is needed for CCP to ban people for RMT:ing and that they most certainly can use the information in that list to pursue people suspected of it.
LALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING LALALALA
</Whitehound>
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Karontin Maysubile
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:46:00 -
[260]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
CCP follows the isk trail back to the suppliers.
I think he means we, the players, might pursue justice on the people in the list.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:46:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 21:37:42
Originally by: Avon Heh, it is you that is banging on with the same old rhetoric, regardless of what others have to say.
I think I have probably noticed more of the posts than you. :)
This is because you cannot read and only notice posts.
@Tippia: why do you think I mention these 8 pages? Any ideas??
Originally by: Terms of Service
25. CCP reserves the right to close, temporarily or permanently, any userÆs account without advance notice as we deem necessary. Furthermore, we reserve the right to delete all user accounts or inventory of characters as warranted.
26. We reserve the right to ban any user from the game without refund or compensation.
Burden of proof?
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:46:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
It sure looks like the 1000 isk for $35 deal going on, but I imagine the isk in units of 1 million.
As for suppliers, if they had sense, they'd set up ratting bots. Since, after all, they're legal.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:50:00 -
[263]
Originally by: Tippia Because you're trying to deflect the issue from the fact that no CC information is needed for CCP to ban people for RMT:ing and that they most certainly can use the information in that list to pursue people suspected of it.
No, I am not deflecting from it. I wrote several pages earlier that CCP can do whatever they like, because it is their game. Go back and you can find it. All I am doing is to help people to keep an open mind in this. For some is this not possible and they wish nothing more than for this list to be true and to see everyone disappear who is on it. Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob. --
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:52:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Karontin Maysubile
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
CCP follows the isk trail back to the suppliers.
I think he means we, the players, might pursue justice on the people in the list.
He's yet to explain why this is a worse motive to shoot someone than any of the other motives that inspire us to shoot each other.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:53:00 -
[265]
I've never spent real money to buy ISK. I accumulate ISK in-game in ways I find enjoyable, and I buy PLEX off the market to keep my accounts open.
So the only way this whole shebang affects me is the fact that these ***holes have been stockpiling PLEX. This drives the price up. Maybe not a huge amount but still.
And if CCP bans whatever account(s) hold these PLEX, taking them out of circulation, CCP will have been paid for a service (461 years of game time) which they never have to provide. I hereby repeat and extend the calls made previously, namely that PLEX destroyed have their value donated to a charity. If you do that and include PLEX on permabanned accounts, then at least they will be doing some good. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:53:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Whitehound No, I am not deflecting from it. I wrote several pages earlier that CCP can do whatever they like, because it is their game.
So why do you call it nonsense when I tell you exactly that? Why do you get so defensive when others point out that what you apparently say yourself is not nonsense? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:54:00 -
[267]
I disagree that they should be banned or ****ing burned at the stake for buying some ISK. Who gives a **** like honestly. You mad because you can't afford it?
Also, thumbs up if you're looking through those names for people you know :O
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:56:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome I hereby repeat and extend the calls made previously, namely that PLEX destroyed have their value donated to a charity. If you do that and include PLEX on permabanned accounts, then at least they will be doing some good.
That'll happen.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:57:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Malcanis He's yet to explain why this is a worse motive to shoot someone than any of the other motives that inspire us to shoot each other.
Since when does it need a reason to shoot someone? What is worse is that for you it does need one. --
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:58:00 -
[270]
If they do indeed have this huge dump of 1 trillion in plexes and what not or stuff like that. All CCP needs to do is shut down the server and run a search of their database to locate every plex within game and see where teh stockpiles are to identify these so called reserves.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:58:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak You mad because you can't afford it?
No, they're mad because RMT:ers are a bunch of cheating scumbags. And they should be banned for it ù far more so than they are right now.
ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:58:00 -
[272]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
It sounds like you think CCP has the burden of proof as if they were going to prosecute someone in court. They don't need any evidence to simply deny a subscription and refund the paying account; they could do that on a whim to any player or group of players they choose for no more reason than doing it makes them giggle. You don't own your character or any property controlled by the character, nor do you have possession of those things; you have a limited license to digital stuff that that resides on their server, and they can withdraw that license at any time. Since they do need to keep some sort of appearance of fairness, they'll want to have good cause before dropping the ban hammer, but they don't need proof.
CCP may just get enough attention to get them selfs in trouble, if they decide to ban a large number of players for RMT based on information obtained by someone commiting an illegal act.
Before CCP does anything they should probably find out if it's even legal to act on the information they where given, there is a chance they them self are breaking some laws by using the information when it's obtained by stealing the database.
If it's legal for them to use the database they should verify that data before closing any accounts, the accounts used to buy isk can have been deleted and recreated by another player, or accounts could have been sold. They would atleast need to prove that it really is the same account/owner now as it was when the RMT toke place.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.09 21:59:00 -
[273]
Originally by: Dorian Tormak I disagree that they should be banned or ****ing burned at the stake for buying some ISK. Who gives a **** like honestly. You mad because you can't afford it?
A few pages ago the main topic was the fact that botters, and their alliances, have a huge advantage over others trying to fund their activities whilst actually operating their computers. Lately it's all about RMTers. Not sure why this happened. RMTing affects everyone evenly, so it's almost irrelevant. SC-buying through botting has more specific victims.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:03:00 -
[274]
Originally by: dexington
Before CCP does anything they should probably find out if it's even legal to act on the information they where given, there is a chance they them self are breaking some laws by using the information when it's obtained by stealing the database.
Like with Wikileaks, they got the information anonymously. Don't shoot the messenger :)
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:04:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Tippia So why do you call it nonsense when I tell you exactly that? Why do you get so defensive when others point out that what you apparently say yourself is not nonsense?
It is nonsense, because you argued without understanding my point.
And where do you see me defensive? I am amused by this thread. Take my word for it. --
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Marconus Orion
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:12:00 -
[276]
A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Play it safe and just vote for Seleene tbh.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:12:00 -
[277]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
It sounds like you think CCP has the burden of proof as if they were going to prosecute someone in court. They don't need any evidence to simply deny a subscription and refund the paying account; they could do that on a whim to any player or group of players they choose for no more reason than doing it makes them giggle. You don't own your character or any property controlled by the character, nor do you have possession of those things; you have a limited license to digital stuff that that resides on their server, and they can withdraw that license at any time. Since they do need to keep some sort of appearance of fairness, they'll want to have good cause before dropping the ban hammer, but they don't need proof.
CCP may just get enough attention to get them selfs in trouble, if they decide to ban a large number of players for RMT based on information obtained by someone commiting an illegal act.
Before CCP does anything they should probably find out if it's even legal to act on the information they where given, there is a chance they them self are breaking some laws by using the information when it's obtained by stealing the database.
If it's legal for them to use the database they should verify that data before closing any accounts, the accounts used to buy isk can have been deleted and recreated by another player, or accounts could have been sold. They would atleast need to prove that it really is the same account/owner now as it was when the RMT toke place.
How many times does it have to be said that CCP can ban anyone they want to for any reason they choose, and no-one can do a damb thing about it for you to understand?
They don't need a list. They can ban you because your sister is ugly or because mercury is in the house of Capricorn or because they heard the first cuckoo of the year or just because it's friday night and they like tears.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:13:00 -
[278]
Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/03/2011 22:15:09
Originally by: Karontin Maysubile I think he means we, the players, might pursue justice on the people in the list.
Yeah, I meant "anyone" as in "the anonymous masses"
Originally by: Marconus Orion A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Would certainly explain why NC makes so much noise about bots. He who snuffed it, fluffed it, and all that nonsense
-- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:15:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Tippia You were banging on about how EN24 did not have CC information.
No. Someone argued they had this information, but it was made up. There is no word on EN24 about it.
I am also pretty sure that you use the expression "banging on" wrong. --
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:19:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I thought I had died and gone to rpg heaven when the first gold box dnd games came out for the c64. Oh the glorious adventures my trusty party of six daring adventurers had plus you could let your friends play by passing the controller. No more dice rolls and charts and overbearing gm's! \o/
*waxes nostalgic*
Pff. Wasteland > all, especially some silly D&D.
Yes there were many wonderful rpg games besides dnd. I just used it as an example as it was one of the first computer based translations that was better than the pnp equivalent.
You had some really bad GM and friends playing with you if you feel that single player a computer version of a RPG is better than playing at a table.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:19:00 -
[281]
Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 09/03/2011 22:15:09
Originally by: Karontin Maysubile I think he means we, the players, might pursue justice on the people in the list.
Yeah, I meant "anyone" as in "the anonymous masses"
Originally by: Marconus Orion A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Would certainly explain why NC makes so much noise about bots. He who snuffed it, fluffed it, and all that nonsense
Ah well in that case it has already started. One titan pilot (who, got a titan at around the same time as the large sum of money) got the boot from their aliance. Justice is swift in eve
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:23:00 -
[282]
Originally by: Whitehound blah blah blah
Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. It's blatantly obvious that you have something to hide if you care this much about discrediting this information.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:25:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Janos Saal Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. It's blatantly obvious that you have something to hide if you care this much about discrediting this information.
lol, i hope CCP puts you in charge of their RMT task force.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:27:00 -
[284]
Originally by: Malcanis How many times does it have to be said that CCP can ban anyone they want to for any reason they choose, and no-one can do a damn thing about it for you to understand?
One would hope that CCP would try to make sure that they're only banning people for sensible reasons. Otherwise word will get around "CCP banned me because my sister didn't put out" and they'd lose customers pretty darned quickly.
Ban the wrong people -> lose customers.
Don't ban the right people -> lose customers.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If only Damocles was this lucky. -- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:29:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Janos Saal Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. blah blah blah
Everyone has got different interests. You for example are interested in my posting patterns. I did not think anyone would notice, but you did. It is very kind of you. --
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:30:00 -
[286]
Originally by: baltec1 Ah well in that case it has already started. One titan pilot (who, got a titan at around the same time as the large sum of money) got the boot from their aliance. Justice is swift in eve
But his titan and implants are still intact? And Goonswarm will happily allow the future purchaser of that character to join the alliance?
-- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Ozwald Rens
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:31:00 -
[287]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
What is needed is permanment bans to the accounts involved and related accounts and not the "serious warnings" and "1 day suspensions" we are always hearing about.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:31:00 -
[288]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 22:34:43 Edited by: Furb Killer on 09/03/2011 22:32:31
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia So why do you call it nonsense when I tell you exactly that? Why do you get so defensive when others point out that what you apparently say yourself is not nonsense?
It is nonsense, because you argued without understanding my point.
And where do you see me defensive? I am amused by this thread. Take my word for it.
Ooh i know the answer on this one. It was where you said that your greatest problem with this is that RMT organisations would release their customer data. Well maybe not defensive, more like scared, does that count too?
Quote: I did not think anyone would notice, but you did
It is kinda hard to miss.
Quote: Ban the wrong people -> lose customers.
Don't ban the right people -> lose customers.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If only Damocles was this lucky.
Of course CCP needs to be careful with it, but they dont need to half rock solid proof as if they were in court. If someone is on this list (the complete one with IP addresses and all), and at the time the purchase was made he received 5B ISK from a 1 day old alt for his 1 tritanium, or 5B isk from his chinese friend, or a golem floating in space, then CCP got suficient evidence, even though it would most likely not hold up in a court (then again it might do).
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:36:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Ozwald Rens
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
What is needed is permanment bans to the accounts involved and related accounts and not the "serious warnings" and "1 day suspensions" we are always hearing about.
Last I recall: SOE = First offense - 1 week ban, money taken. Second offense 1 month ban, money taken. Third offense perma ban
Blizzard = First offense - Money taken, note from GM. Second offense - Money taken, note from GM. Third offense - Money taken, note from GM. Subsequent offenses - Money taken, note from GM. (at least this is what happened to an ex-coworker regularly who rmt'd)
Just be glad EVE isn't run by Blizzard, you'd have more RMT than you can shake a stick at. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:38:00 -
[290]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Janos Saal Your first post in this thread was eight hours ago and you've posted on every subsequent page multiple times. It's blatantly obvious that you have something to hide if you care this much about discrediting this information.
lol, i hope CCP puts you in charge of their RMT task force.
To be fair, whitehound really is trying too hard. He keeps repeating his rhetoric that has been shown to be BS, with which he is white knighting RMT ISK buyers. Meanwhile he said literally that his fear is that RMT'ers will release customer data and that he hopes the RMT'ers get a warning, a freaking warning.
Either he is a VERY succesful troll, in which case i would normally congratulate him, but when defending RMT'ers trolling isnt that much fun. On the other hand it is kinda hard not to suspect him of having RMT relations.
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LittleTerror
Tea Tactics
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:41:00 -
[291]
5,540 PLEX
Would that be enough to have caused manipulation of plex prices?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:44:00 -
[292]
Originally by: LittleTerror 5,540 PLEX
Would that be enough to have caused manipulation of plex prices?
Not really, I'm thinking they purchased them via $$ (probably with stolen credit card information) and are waiting to dump them when it's economically feasible to increase their isk holdings. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:45:00 -
[293]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: baltec1 Ah well in that case it has already started. One titan pilot (who, got a titan at around the same time as the large sum of money) got the boot from their aliance. Justice is swift in eve
But his titan and implants are still intact? And Goonswarm will happily allow the future purchaser of that character to join the alliance?
Well once CCP catch up with all of thisthen the titan pilot will be looking at a wallet with a hole the size of at least a titan. Added on top of that is the reputation of the charactor as an RMT arsewipe and the real likelyhood of a titan loss comming soon as they are now in a neut titan at a hostile pos
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:49:00 -
[294]
Originally by: Mara Rinn One would hope that CCP would try to make sure that they're only banning people for sensible reasons. Otherwise word will get around "CCP banned me because my sister didn't put out" and they'd lose customers pretty darned quickly.
Seems like someone people in this thread are reading the eula/tos like the devil reads the bible, it's very unlikely ccp is going to ban people who have not broken any rules. It's seem that the normal GM response to RTM discussions is the actions ranging from warning to permanent ban will be taken against players using that type of service.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:51:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Ephemeron You can't win the war if you only play defense. And that's what CCP is doing
There has to be an active and relentless offensive, attacking on all fronts, not just in-game, but using out of game tactics, such as hacker attacks, DoS'ing the websites, exposing private information of those involved.
The people in RMT business need to have real FEAR of doing business. Without fear, there can be no change in behavior.
So CCP should do action that will expose them to legal actions to strike fear in the RTMers?
Genial.
I never thought that spending millions in legal fees would be the winning move.
Effectively the legal expenses will leave CCP incapable to keep the servers running, so the bot/RTMers problem will be resolved forever. No server, no EVE, no botters.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:52:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Furb Killer Well maybe not defensive, more like scared, does that count too?
It worries me. I would not want to see my account disappear, because of someone putting my name on a list or because all of a sudden the logs do show something.
If you have followed the discussion then you might understand that it is not possible for CCP to prove the actual transfer of real money, but they can only see if ISKs are being exchanged between players and what likely is a bot, ratting 23/7 in some belts, and suspect these to be the RMTs. So what CCP does is not an exact science, it is only very accurate guess work.
But why worry? CCP is great at everything they do! The game is free of bugs, no glitches anywhere, everything works just perfectly (and hybrid turrets are fine). You are right! Why worry about it?! --
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Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:53:00 -
[297]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Fictional Invoice From EVENews24 Order No. 8574 - 1000pcs x 1 ISK - 35.09
Am I missing something or did "Nick Stewart" who is in Iraq pay $35.09 for 1000ISK?
The amount of PLEX this alleged operation has in storage is a little scary - if CCP doesn't squash the entire operation in one stroke, we'll potentially have a flood of PLEX onto the market, ruining the legitimate dollars-to-ISK trade. Thank goodness CCP is navigating the more cautious path.
I'm a little surprised that the database dump didn't include any information on suppliers. How does "iskbank" get their stocks if they have no suppliers?
For the moment I'll assume the article is an interesting fiction. It raises some interesting issues, but anyone taking actions against people on the "client list" without having any further evidence is basically participating in a lynch mob.
CCP follows the isk trail back to the suppliers.
There is no "isk trail.". I'm kinda surprised people haven't read-up on just how they operate.
We aren't privy to what CCP is doing to combat the issue, but it would be nice if they at least put on the appearance that they are doing something...much like the kabuki theater that is the "war on drugs" in the States. We would at least feel better, even if nothing actually changed.
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Miners Strike
Mydas Eye
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:53:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:55:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Miners Strike
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
Undereducated is legit btw. I think it's a brit thing... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 22:55:00 -
[300]
Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 22:56:35
Originally by: Miners Strike They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
No, just a lot on auto-pilot the last few days. (RedFrog is at Kragen for days, my alternative freight service is not online and I have to move my stuff myself.) --
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Miners Strike
Mydas Eye
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:01:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Furb Killer Well maybe not defensive, more like scared, does that count too?
It worries me. I would not want to see my account disappear, because of someone putting my name on a list or because all of a sudden the logs do show something.
If you have followed the discussion then you might understand that it is not possible for CCP to prove the actual transfer of real money, but they can only see if ISKs are being exchanged between players and what likely is a bot, ratting 23/7 in some belts, and suspect these to be the RMTs. So what CCP does is not an exact science, it is only very accurate guess work.
But why worry? CCP is great at everything they do! The game is free of bugs, no glitches anywhere, everything works just perfectly (and hybrid turrets are fine). You are right! Why worry about it?!
Your posts are getting sillier. CCP don't need to prove RMT in order to punish players.
If you or anyone else has suspicious transactions in their wallet, they will catch up with you. I think it's safe to assume that CCP know how to follow the isk trail.
If you're not involved in this you have nothing to fear. Have you noticed that you're pretty much the only person who views the situation from this particular angle? It's not because you're a visionary, it's because you're way off. Thanks for coming.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:03:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Miners Strike
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
Undereducated is legit btw. I think it's a brit thing...
"Wrong" can also be used as a noun. So, yes, I do point out their wrong. Think of it as "their error". --
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:08:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Furb Killer Well maybe not defensive, more like scared, does that count too?
It worries me. I would not want to see my account disappear, because of someone putting my name on a list or because all of a sudden the logs do show something.
If it happens i'll have a 'Free Whitehound' site where people can donate money, don't worry you are not going to jail we'll beat them in court. :)
What you are suggesting seem so far fetched it looks like pure trolling, but you are right under the right curcomstances someone innocent could be accused of RMT. It's just something you have to live with, just like we don't let irl criminals run around free because there is a tiny chance of innocent people going to jail.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:09:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
There is no "isk trail.". I'm kinda surprised people haven't read-up on just how they operate.
We aren't privy to what CCP is doing to combat the issue, but it would be nice if they at least put on the appearance that they are doing something...much like the kabuki theater that is the "war on drugs" in the States. We would at least feel better, even if nothing actually changed.
My corp had a guy who bought isk years ago and when we got suspicious we reported him. The GM got back to us saying he had traced the isk to a known farmer and had removed the isk. This was confimed later that day when said member raged
You see, every single transaction is saved and is there for the GM to look at. So no matter how many hands it goes through CCP will know where it came from.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:11:00 -
[305]
Well... we should keep in mind that this current article in EN24 was only the beginning of the entire story.
Originally by: part of EN24 article Check back for EveNews24Æs upcoming coverage of the Iskbank.com leak: Iskbank.com customers speak out EveNews24 Exclusive: The Vadim interview CSM6 candidates weigh in Phase 2: The Eveisk.ru dump
Those interviews should be interesting read and dunno what the other database dump has to offer.
I've been on really positive mood after the promising dev replies in the bot thread. Players in community have shown real support for fight against botting and rmt. This leak was unexpected, but really welcome as it raises more discussion and awareness on the topic. It is very likely that many people will see their accounts banhammered at least for some time and their wallets drained to negative balance.
Perhaps this following fanfest will really be start for new eve era, where these kinds of elements start slowly vanishing from game instead of getting stronger. That will be seen. At least community seems to be ready to help out.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:15:00 -
[306]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Mister Rocknrolla
There is no "isk trail.". I'm kinda surprised people haven't read-up on just how they operate.
We aren't privy to what CCP is doing to combat the issue, but it would be nice if they at least put on the appearance that they are doing something...much like the kabuki theater that is the "war on drugs" in the States. We would at least feel better, even if nothing actually changed.
My corp had a guy who bought isk years ago and when we got suspicious we reported him. The GM got back to us saying he had traced the isk to a known farmer and had removed the isk. This was confimed later that day when said member raged
You see, every single transaction is saved and is there for the GM to look at. So no matter how many hands it goes through CCP will know where it came from.
This is true, same thing happened to our old CEO. He got his wallet put into the negative some several billion isk. From what I learned, he complained to CCP for several weeks threatening to cancel his 7 or so accounts until they reversed it.
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Nyio
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:16:00 -
[307]
I read the whole article at EveNews24, and it made me smile. The alleged hacker did a good thing I think, apart from the blackmailing. If any of that is true..
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LittleTerror
Tea Tactics
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:17:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Kylira Ulfrinn
Originally by: Patient 2428190
I almost believe you.
After all, Incarana is going to be packed to the brim with great features, game content busted out of the seams. The last 5 years have been a constant information stream from CCP talking about all the great things we will be doing, all the beautiful crafted content lovingly made just for EVE Online customers.
Oh wait, its a graphics engine that is completely unrelated to anything EVE has been for the past decade.
I am now convinced that you are incapable of making a post in which you do not cry about Incarna. That's all I ever see from you.
Yes I think there is something wrong with his brain.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:19:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Perhaps this following fanfest will really be start for new eve era, where these kinds of elements start slowly vanishing from game instead of getting stronger. That will be seen. At least community seems to be ready to help out.
Won't happen.
There will always be the lazy fat-beards with tons of r/l $$ to blow on RMT. One guy that worked with me was completely and utterly all in favor of buying WoW gold and power leveling services. He got this other girl at work to start playing WoW and got her into RMT too. What's funny is he LOOKED the part of the basement dwelling, fat-beard, living at home with mommy type too. Typical gaming nerd, and there's millions of them. There's a reason RMT is a multi-billion dollar industry, and it won't go away...ever...period... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Catheryn Martobi
|
Posted - 2011.03.09 23:25:00 -
[310]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Perhaps this following fanfest will really be start for new eve era, where these kinds of elements start slowly vanishing from game instead of getting stronger. That will be seen. At least community seems to be ready to help out.
Won't happen.
There will always be the lazy fat-beards with tons of r/l $$ to blow on RMT. One guy that worked with me was completely and utterly all in favor of buying WoW gold and power leveling services. He got this other girl at work to start playing WoW and got her into RMT too. What's funny is he LOOKED the part of the basement dwelling, fat-beard, living at home with mommy type too. Typical gaming nerd, and there's millions of them. There's a reason RMT is a multi-billion dollar industry, and it won't go away...ever...period...
It won't go away as long as it's profitable. If we can make it so the cost outweighs the benefits then it will go away. Problem is no one has ever found solution yet.
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Hoya en Marland
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:29:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Hoya en Marland on 09/03/2011 23:31:08
evenews24: thanks for reminding me why I despise MMORPGs; how the hell did I let myself to get involved with this one is something I will be contemplating in next few days.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:31:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Perhaps this following fanfest will really be start for new eve era, where these kinds of elements start slowly vanishing from game instead of getting stronger. That will be seen. At least community seems to be ready to help out.
Won't happen.
There will always be the lazy fat-beards with tons of r/l $$ to blow on RMT. One guy that worked with me was completely and utterly all in favor of buying WoW gold and power leveling services. He got this other girl at work to start playing WoW and got her into RMT too. What's funny is he LOOKED the part of the basement dwelling, fat-beard, living at home with mommy type too. Typical gaming nerd, and there's millions of them. There's a reason RMT is a multi-billion dollar industry, and it won't go away...ever...period...
It won't go away as long as it's profitable. If we can make it so the cost outweighs the benefits then it will go away. Problem is no one has ever found solution yet.
You can't make the cost outweigh the benefits when you can get 100s of Chinese to sit in cramped rooms farming online currencies in shifts 24/7 for a bowl of rice or whatever else they pay, which is not even what illegals make in the US for hard labor. Seriously, there's some interesting documentaries on youtube about gold farming operations. It's pretty interesting what goes on. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:43:00 -
[313]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Perhaps this following fanfest will really be start for new eve era, where these kinds of elements start slowly vanishing from game instead of getting stronger. That will be seen. At least community seems to be ready to help out.
Won't happen.
There will always be the lazy fat-beards with tons of r/l $$ to blow on RMT. One guy that worked with me was completely and utterly all in favor of buying WoW gold and power leveling services. He got this other girl at work to start playing WoW and got her into RMT too. What's funny is he LOOKED the part of the basement dwelling, fat-beard, living at home with mommy type too. Typical gaming nerd, and there's millions of them. There's a reason RMT is a multi-billion dollar industry, and it won't go away...ever...period...
I've been "forced" to buy gold in WOW lots of times, full time job and 12-20 hours end game raiding leaves no time for grinding all the stuff you needed for raiding. If WOW had a option like PLEX i would have used that, and i believe PLEX will take some of the RMT profit. PLEX will not be able to compete with the RMT isk price, which makes RMT the best option for people who are willing to spend large amounts of money, but it's probably also the large transactions that are the easiest to detect.
I would be nice if the next news story gives some information on how the RMT looked before and after PLEX was added to the market as an normal item, it may give CCP some insight on where to focus their effort against RMT.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:45:00 -
[314]
If your job forces you to "RMT", than maybe a game like Super Mario Cart is more suited for you, not an MMO. I think that's just a f'ing cop out.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:50:00 -
[315]
Originally by: Joe Skellington If your job forces you to "RMT", than maybe a game like Super Mario Cart is more suited for you, not an MMO. I think that's just a f'ing cop out.
Spare me your deep moral judgement, most games have some form of RMT. Eve has PLEX, WOW has TCG.
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Dorian Tormak
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Posted - 2011.03.09 23:56:00 -
[316]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 23:08:36
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Miners Strike
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
Undereducated is legit btw. I think it's a brit thing...
"Wrong" can also be used as a noun. So, yes, I do point out their wrong. Think of it as "their error".
PS: Good night!
Pwned !
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Llyandrian
Amarr Livestock Science Exchange
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Posted - 2011.03.10 00:11:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Miners Strike
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
Undereducated is legit btw. I think it's a brit thing...
No we British say ignorant.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 00:19:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Azirapheal Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$354.92 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$351.18 Icarantus$338.06 Icarantus$316.07 Icarantus$283.94 Icarantus$243.21 Icarantus$211.56 Icarantus$186.80 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$181.20 Icarantus$179.33 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$177.46 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$175.59 Icarantus$173.72 Icarantus$128.14 Icarantus$112.08 Icarantus$99.38 Icarantus$94.82 Icarantus$60.34
wow, just wow.
This^ No really... wow.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Thread cleaned. Posting of Off-topic and trolling posts, GM correspondence, and discussions of illegal activities are not permitted on the forums. Please remember to post within the forum rules at all times.
Isn't this thread entirely about illegal activities?
Meh. This was an interesting story worth reading, so thanks OP. I don't think anyone is surprised much, but contrary to some comments here I'm sure CCP is looking into it. It's pretty clear they don't like it any more than us, particularly since it costs them money (all these names on the list could have been paying CCP instead... CCP in turn could hire another designer or programmer or two w/ this kind of dough). Anyway... over it. On to Incarna.
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 00:54:00 -
[319]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Perhaps this following fanfest will really be start for new eve era, where these kinds of elements start slowly vanishing from game instead of getting stronger. That will be seen. At least community seems to be ready to help out.
Won't happen.
There will always be the lazy fat-beards with tons of r/l $$ to blow on RMT. One guy that worked with me was completely and utterly all in favor of buying WoW gold and power leveling services. He got this other girl at work to start playing WoW and got her into RMT too. What's funny is he LOOKED the part of the basement dwelling, fat-beard, living at home with mommy type too. Typical gaming nerd, and there's millions of them. There's a reason RMT is a multi-billion dollar industry, and it won't go away...ever...period...
I've been "forced" to buy gold in WOW lots of times, full time job and 12-20 hours end game raiding leaves no time for grinding all the stuff you needed for raiding. If WOW had a option like PLEX i would have used that, and i believe PLEX will take some of the RMT profit. PLEX will not be able to compete with the RMT isk price, which makes RMT the best option for people who are willing to spend large amounts of money, but it's probably also the large transactions that are the easiest to detect.
I would be nice if the next news story gives some information on how the RMT looked before and after PLEX was added to the market as an normal item, it may give CCP some insight on where to focus their effort against RMT.
I'm sorry, no one is forced to buy gold in WoW. I managed 15k gold in a month of harvesting 20 minutes a day while having coffee before getting in the shower for work. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Comstr
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:20:00 -
[320]
Edited by: Comstr on 10/03/2011 01:21:15 Well CCP's lack of response and complete lack of action on bots or the players who buy RMT is making me put my money where my mouth is. My account is cancelled end of this month.
If you actually care about it, it's the only way to make CCP take notice. Everyone else in this thread will still be here next month. I won't.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:23:00 -
[321]
Originally by: Barakkus I'm sorry, no one is forced to buy gold in WoW. I managed 15k gold in a month of harvesting 20 minutes a day while having coffee before getting in the shower for work.
Like hell you did that in classic or tbc, and when you have to much money and to little time you do feel forced to either pay for currency or stop playing the game or atleast the part of the game you enjoy, which in the end it likely to make you stop playing the game. That is the main reason most games have some legit way of doing RMT, and it's also why the illegal 3. party RMT exists.
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Ann Tsukamoto
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 01:27:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Ann Tsukamoto on 10/03/2011 01:29:53 If ccp say Quote: the logs show nothing
, hopefully it'll be the spur for me to finally quit.
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Ai Mei
Starfish Operating Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:36:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Comstr Edited by: Comstr on 10/03/2011 01:21:15 Well CCP's lack of response and complete lack of action on bots or the players who buy RMT is making me put my money where my mouth is. My account is cancelled end of this month.
If you actually care about it, it's the only way to make CCP take notice. Everyone else in this thread will still be here next month. I won't.
Only good goon is a cancelled subscription goon. Stuff can I has?
Oh and CCP cannot comment during accusations or investigations like this.
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Ann Tsukamoto
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:38:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Ai Mei
Originally by: Comstr Edited by: Comstr on 10/03/2011 01:21:15 Well CCP's lack of response and complete lack of action on bots or the players who buy RMT is making me put my money where my mouth is. My account is cancelled end of this month.
If you actually care about it, it's the only way to make CCP take notice. Everyone else in this thread will still be here next month. I won't.
Only good goon is a cancelled subscription goon. Stuff can I has?
Oh and CCP cannot comment during accusations or investigations like this.
i'm sorry, but i can honestly say. 'this is the first time i've ever agreed with a goon'.
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Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 01:41:00 -
[325]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 01:42:43
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus I'm sorry, no one is forced to buy gold in WoW. I managed 15k gold in a month of harvesting 20 minutes a day while having coffee before getting in the shower for work.
Like hell you did that in classic or tbc, and when you have to much money and to little time you do feel forced to either pay for currency or stop playing the game or atleast the part of the game you enjoy, which in the end it likely to make you stop playing the game. That is the main reason most games have some legit way of doing RMT, and it's also why the illegal 3. party RMT exists.
It was during TBC actually. Silithus (I think is the name of the zone, the one with all the bugs underground) is good income if you take herbalism and mining. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:50:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Barakkus It was during TBC actually. Silithus (I think is the name of the zone, the one with all the bugs underground) is good income if you take herbalism and mining.
1500g/hr using mining and herbalism farming level 60 content in tbc, you are clearly talking out your ass, please stop now no need to make yourself look like a bigger fool.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:51:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Ann Tsukamoto
Originally by: Ai Mei
Originally by: Comstr Edited by: Comstr on 10/03/2011 01:21:15 Well CCP's lack of response and complete lack of action on bots or the players who buy RMT is making me put my money where my mouth is. My account is cancelled end of this month.
If you actually care about it, it's the only way to make CCP take notice. Everyone else in this thread will still be here next month. I won't.
Only good goon is a cancelled subscription goon. Stuff can I has?
Oh and CCP cannot comment during accusations or investigations like this.
i'm sorry, but i can honestly say. 'this is the first time i've ever agreed with a goon'.
Well CCP is in a bind, people want them to comment, and say something but as with all investigations on accusations as these which are very serious, you dont open your mouth until, the investigation is completed and provide a definitive explanation.
With this thread and the responses from it I would give it a week before we really hear something about this.
What they are going to do is first.
Lock all those player accounts until further notices Next - read their wallet journal for the past 6 months to see all transactions including player donations, contracts, market orders etc. After highlighting key large scale transactions that could resemble isk buying they will then see note the players where they isk came from. AFter compiling this list, ccp will check to see if any of the donating players or market transactions are from the same people.
IF yes then source player is locked and their wallet is investigated etc. going in the same process. Once this is done they will know the names of the donating bots, the distributors of the isk and the buyers.
Then with a fit of unholy rage they will ban them all in one fell swoop.
THE POSTS in this thread maybe the needle CCP has been looking for so they can put an end to a majority of RMT / botting in eve.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 01:53:00 -
[328]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus It was during TBC actually. Silithus (I think is the name of the zone, the one with all the bugs underground) is good income if you take herbalism and mining.
1500g/hr using mining and herbalism farming level 60 content in tbc, you are clearly talking out your ass, please stop now no need to make yourself look like a bigger fool.
Only fool here is you going on about having to spend money on gold lol.
When WoTLK came out I was loaning money to my guild mates for mounts. You must have been on a ****ty server, Onyxia's economy treated me well. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:01:00 -
[329]
CCP is letting this thread stay up, I'm surprised.
I can only assume they are letting botting stay in the public's eye because they are going to be more forward about fighting RMT/botting in the future, at least I hope so...
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:03:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Malcanis He's yet to explain why this is a worse motive to shoot someone than any of the other motives that inspire us to shoot each other.
I think coming back from a long holiday to find your erstwhile friends have booted you from alliance and banned you from forums/Teamspeak based on a faked invoice for RMT services would rate as a little worse than a bunch of neck beards blowing up your officer-fit Golem.
Sensible people might not do such a thing, but even sensible people faced with claims of outrageous crimes will behave stupidly. Some people are particularly vehement about RMT. -- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:05:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus It was during TBC actually. Silithus (I think is the name of the zone, the one with all the bugs underground) is good income if you take herbalism and mining.
1500g/hr using mining and herbalism farming level 60 content in tbc, you are clearly talking out your ass, please stop now no need to make yourself look like a bigger fool.
Only fool here is you going on about having to spend money on gold lol.
When WoTLK came out I was loaning money to my guild mates for mounts. You must have been on a ****ty server, Onyxia's economy treated me well.
After your pathetic attempt at sounding like a pro wow gold farmer, which left you looking so very clueless, do you really think any thing you could say would have any effect?
I'm sure your guild needed tons of gold for the new wotlk mounts :)
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:07:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk With this thread and the responses from it I would give it a week before we really hear something about this.
FanFest is 24-26 March, just sayin'. -- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:07:00 -
[333]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 02:08:33
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus It was during TBC actually. Silithus (I think is the name of the zone, the one with all the bugs underground) is good income if you take herbalism and mining.
1500g/hr using mining and herbalism farming level 60 content in tbc, you are clearly talking out your ass, please stop now no need to make yourself look like a bigger fool.
Only fool here is you going on about having to spend money on gold lol.
When WoTLK came out I was loaning money to my guild mates for mounts. You must have been on a ****ty server, Onyxia's economy treated me well.
After your pathetic attempt at sounding like a pro wow gold farmer, which left you looking so very clueless, do you really think any thing you could say would have any effect?
I'm sure your guild needed tons of gold for the new wotlk mounts :)
Wow, u mad. That's hilarious.
And I have to reiterate, you're pathetic for buying gold. |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:21:00 -
[334]
Originally by: Barakkus Wow, u mad. That's hilarious. And I have to reiterate, you're pathetic for buying gold.
lol.. yeah i've never been so mad in all my life, your clever insults and transparent lies about your wow gold farming skills got me oh so mad. Keep posting the trivial insults and foolish comments about your pro wow skills, and i'll go into hulk smash nerd rage mode. |
Ann Tsukamoto
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 02:23:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Well CCP is in a bind, people want them to comment, and say something but as with all investigations on accusations as these which are very serious, you dont open your mouth until, the investigation is completed and provide a definitive explanation.
Then with a fit of unholy rage they will ban them all in one fell swoop.
THE POSTS in this thread maybe the needle CCP has been looking for so they can put an end to a majority of RMT / botting in eve.
To be honest, I can't disagree with you, but for every Unholy Rage which is well publicised and well recieved, there's an Arzi with its 100+ 24/7 haulers or a Motsu with its cardboard-copy 5 man corps that quietly disappear every now and again.
If CCP was a little more forthcoming with the amount that were banned, warned or deterred from botting or RMTing, you'd see a lot less of these threads. |
MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:28:00 -
[336]
Edited by: MidnightReign on 10/03/2011 02:31:51
Originally by: Barakkus Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 02:08:33
:)
This is not WOW, you are both pathetic. dexington is the winner of the argument b/c he actually has points that don't rely on perceived morality.
All arguments in this thread are a result of game designers not being good enough to make their online games FUN so they must integrate WORK into their GAMES so people will keep playing for more crack-er grind-er currency-er I mean leveling. Also CCP is running a shell game. They allow (realistically they can't change this due to practicality) bots and sell PLEX, bots purchase PLEX, drive PLEX price up, net CCP more money.
It's just a complicated way for them to run their own RL money printing press without the people whom they are taking the money from being any-the-wiser.
This would be fine but they don't/can't/won't put the money back into Eve such as "hiring another Dev" such as some idiots who do not know how the world works have suggested, and it ends up impacting what should be the actual game for the worse on several different levels.
Edited for broken quotes and words
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:43:00 -
[337]
Originally by: MidnightReign
This is not WOW, you are both pathetic. dexington is the winner of the argument b/c he actually has points that don't rely on perceived morality.
Actually didn't make a single point, other than the fact that he is willing to participate in RMT because of his inability to play a video game the way it was intended to be played. Cheater, is a cheater is a cheater. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:46:00 -
[338]
If I were the source of the leak, I might be tempted to seed some false information in there, just to see how much credence CCP puts into external data when determining punishment for RMT.
- If only the real RMTers get banned, then that implies that they may use external data to initiate an investigation, but they don't rely on it.
- If even the red herrings get banned, then that implies CCP does not do a proper verification using actual game logs.
- If nobody (or only a few) get banned, that implies that even when pointed in the right direction, there are ways of laundering ISK that CCP cannot substantiate. |
MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:52:00 -
[339]
His point was that many people are too busy in their lives and want to enjoy the ENJOYABLE parts of the games without having to do the GRIND in the games ("grind" does not equal "work" in all cases).
I personally do not blame him as I think that it's stupid to make griding a necessity. There is a difference between work and grind. Someone who has no RL obligations has an innate advantage, which PLEX/RMT (same thing for the point we are arguing) equalizes.
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Remus Andromedus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 02:58:00 -
[340]
Originally by: MidnightReign His point was that many people are too busy in their lives and want to enjoy the ENJOYABLE parts of the games without having to do the GRIND in the games ("grind" does not equal "work" in all cases).
I personally do not blame him as I think that it's stupid to make griding a necessity. There is a difference between work and grind. Someone who has no RL obligations has an innate advantage, which PLEX/RMT (same thing for the point we are arguing) equalizes.
Troll is as a troll does.
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MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 03:00:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Remus Andromedus
Originally by: MidnightReign His point was that many people are too busy in their lives and want to enjoy the ENJOYABLE parts of the games without having to do the GRIND in the games ("grind" does not equal "work" in all cases).
I personally do not blame him as I think that it's stupid to make griding a necessity. There is a difference between work and grind. Someone who has no RL obligations has an innate advantage, which PLEX/RMT (same thing for the point we are arguing) equalizes.
Troll is as a troll does.
I don't understand what you are saying? CCP is Troll as well since they sell PLEX? Huh?
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Killitt
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Posted - 2011.03.10 03:03:00 -
[342]
We could add them to friends list, and just grief the hell out of them.
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Christos Hendez
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.03.10 03:09:00 -
[343]
Everyone politely ignored that someones used SOMER Blink to launder over 6000$ (1 TRILLION) worth of isk? :D ----- Russian | English | French
AAA Diplomat WAR.H |
Elzon1
Caldari Shadow Boys Corp White Angels.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 03:16:00 -
[344]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
Well, if it has to be secret to be successful... then you had better implement it BEFORE someone talks about it
If you don't you run two risks:
1. A bot programmer figures out counters to the program before it is implemented
2. Someone buys information/files off of a developer in order to counter the implementation
Amiright?
Oh yeah, after banning all bots continuously (they try to come back) wouldn't you have more hackers to deal with? I don't know where, I don't know when... but something awful is going to happen xD |
Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 03:42:00 -
[345]
Originally by: Christos Hendez Everyone politely ignored that someones used SOMER Blink to launder over 6000$ (1 TRILLION) worth of isk? :D
I doubt that that in any way actually laundered it. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 03:45:00 -
[346]
Wow what kind of loser trades real money for fake game money?
It's enough to pay to play and then go and spend more money for what, pixels?
At the least it's probably where most of the tears come from when they get their $$ ships popped.
If this is not dealt with, then it will feel like CCP no longer cares about this game any more and the reason to be here loses what entertainment value to derive from it.
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MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 04:10:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Wow what kind of loser trades real money for fake game money?
It's enough to pay to play and then go and spend more money for what, pixels?
At the least it's probably where most of the tears come from when they get their $$ ships popped.
If this is not dealt with, then it will feel like CCP no longer cares about this game any more and the reason to be here loses what entertainment value to derive from it.
CCP never cared (at least since I've been here, 2006) about this as anything more than something to make money with. If you look at the management and design decisions they have made over the past years, you too will see this. I think they did used to care though based on reading and stuff, so that's something.
I don't understand how people can get so upset about this subject when CCP condones it (PLEX and RMT are the same thing when considered from an in-game perspective)
I believe being able to purchase in game assets using out of game resources is wrong period (gameplay). However, due to human nature and the inability/unwillingness of developers to make fun games not needing sociology-major inspired addictive grinding elements, this is going to be a fact of life forever.
Because of many of things that go on in/involving Eve, too many to list, if anyone is still here because they believe the game world has integrity of any sort, well, I've got a bridge I'd love to get off my hands...
Do I have a point? Probably not. I think I'm just butthurt because of humanity at this point =-/
PS. ISK has a true market value. This is determined by what people will pay for it. CCP sell their PLEX way over the TMV. Unauthorized ISK resellers sell for the actual TMV . They are both doing the same thing, except CCP has legitimized the practice by creating PLEX, and tries to make their property worth more than it actually is by price setting. If CCP sold isk at the same rate as RMTers, there would be no issue. If there were no plex, there would also probably be fewer bots as real money would need to flow from farmers to CCP.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 04:16:00 -
[348]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer Wow what kind of loser trades real money for fake game money?
The kind of loser that buys the plexs that enable the rest of us to play for free, they are nice people.
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer It's enough to pay to play and then go and spend more money for what, pixels? At the least it's probably where most of the tears come from when they get their $$ ships popped.
I make like 40$ pr hour which i guess would buy around 1B isk, it would take +10 hours to make the isk in game. I can guarantee i would would shed alot less tears everytime i lost a 500-1000M ship if i only had spend 1 hour getting the isk.
If money is not you biggest problem you really don't care if it cost 10 or 100$ a month to play the game.
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Jada Maroo
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Posted - 2011.03.10 04:22:00 -
[349]
Originally by: Killitt We could add them to friends list, and just grief the hell out of them.
That assumes that all the names are legit and that the hacker didn't sprinkle in a few people he or she didn't like along the way. I don't think that happened, but it's sort of like the PL forum leak. The mirror probably doesn't contain any manufactured posts, but it easily could have. The reliability of the source matters, and the information can't be guaranteed in either incident.
The only ones who should be taking action are CCP. Now if they don't... then we have to start questioning how legitimate Eve is as a game.
What they really need to do is investigate, punish, and announce the results of it afterward. If anyone on the list was falsely accused, if a name was injected into a mix of guilty parties, then that player needs to be cleared.
If they're all guilty - ban the hell out of them, for life.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.10 04:39:00 -
[350]
Originally by: MidnightReign His point was that many people are too busy in their lives and want to enjoy the ENJOYABLE parts of the games without having to do the GRIND in the games ("grind" does not equal "work" in all cases).
I personally do not blame him as I think that it's stupid to make griding a necessity. There is a difference between work and grind. Someone who has no RL obligations has an innate advantage, which PLEX/RMT (same thing for the point we are arguing) equalizes.
So you support RMT then? Thats always good to know. Oh and because it is clear you are a moron, PLEX and RMT are not the same. The real world cost of a PLEX goes to CCP, the ISK and items that RMT'ers sell lines their own pockets with money. The fact you don't understand that worries me. You don't plan on breeding do you?
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MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 04:51:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: MidnightReign His point was that many people are too busy in their lives and want to enjoy the ENJOYABLE parts of the games without having to do the GRIND in the games ("grind" does not equal "work" in all cases).
I personally do not blame him as I think that it's stupid to make griding a necessity. There is a difference between work and grind. Someone who has no RL obligations has an innate advantage, which PLEX/RMT (same thing for the point we are arguing) equalizes.
So you support RMT then? Thats always good to know. Oh and because it is clear you are a moron, PLEX and RMT are not the same. The real world cost of a PLEX goes to CCP, the ISK and items that RMT'ers sell lines their own pockets with money. The fact you don't understand that worries me. You don't plan on breeding do you?
Try some reading comprehension
PS-Apologies if english is not your first laguage or you are just very bad at it.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.10 05:03:00 -
[352]
Originally by: MidnightReign
CCP never cared (at least since I've been here, 2006) about this as anything more than something to make money with. If you look at the management and design decisions they have made over the past years, you too will see this. I think they did used to care though based on reading and stuff, so that's something.
I don't understand how people can get so upset about this subject when CCP condones it (PLEX and RMT are the same thing when considered from an in-game perspective)
I believe being able to purchase in game assets using out of game resources is wrong period (gameplay). However, due to human nature and the inability/unwillingness of developers to make fun games not needing sociology-major inspired addictive grinding elements, this is going to be a fact of life forever.
This is, quite frankly, a pathetic excuse for allowing it to continue. Throwing your hands in the air and saying "woe is me, tis inevitable that I should lose" is not the way to deal with this situation.
Originally by: MidnightReign
Do I have a point? Probably not.
First correct thing you have said so far.
Originally by: MidnightReign
PS. ISK has a true market value. This is determined by what people will pay for it. CCP sell their PLEX way over the TMV. Unauthorized ISK resellers sell for the actual TMV . They are both doing the same thing, except CCP has legitimized the practice by creating PLEX, and tries to make their property worth more than it actually is by price setting. If CCP sold isk at the same rate as RMTers, there would be no issue. If there were no plex, there would also probably be fewer bots as real money would need to flow from farmers to CCP.
Lets start with the obvious shall we? CCP sell PLEX at a fixed rate to us, the players. The amount of ISK they sell for is set and determined entirely by us, the players. Not by CCP. Ever.
Now that that MASSIVELY obvious point is out of the way the rest of your stupid little argument falls apart completely. ISK sellers buy up as many PLEX as they can, convert some to ISK for re-sale and then hold on to the remaining PLEX thus driving up their prices. This has the knock on effect of raising the $/ú value of ISK meaning that normal PLEX buyers end up asking for more and more ISK for their PLEX.
Now this is where the ISK sellers make even more money. They offer their ISK at a much lower price, which they can afford as they are in almost complete control of the PLEX market and because the majority of them use bots to farm massive amounts of isk. Dumb players think that they are getting a good deal, that fellow players are just trying to rip them off and that the kindly ISK seller is a nice guy who doesn't like to see people ripped off.
Whats next? Oh yes, if PLEX didn't exist. Here you go again with getting it totally wrong, surprise surprise. PLEX was introduced as a way of combatting RMT. CCP eventually realised that there was a demand from its customers for a way to easily convert real cash into ISK. Up until that point the easiest (though still inherently risky) way of doing this was through RMT websites.
Obviously this is lost income for CCP so they came up with PLEX as a way to not only fulfil customer needs, but to regain some of that money. Getting rid of PLEX would not mean that farmers would route their ISK through CCP, as this was never the way it was done in the past. They would simply revert back to their former methods and things would get significantly worse.
RMT'ers are the bane of MMO's, they rely entirely on poorly educated people such as yourself, to spread the idea that RMT is ok, that it is a victimless crime and that everyone benefits. Well here is a news flash sunshine, they profit. Not CCP, not you, not decent players, just them. But you go ahead thinking that RMT'ers are charging TMV and that CCP are "Teh big ebil company" ripping you off.
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Dr Sodius
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Posted - 2011.03.10 05:24:00 -
[353]
its funny to read how the nc are calling the DRF russians "ebayers" on every unofficial forum, while WI, MH, RZR & MM are buying ~150b isk to spend them into "pve ships"...
and then starting a thread about RMT & Botting
haha
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.10 06:11:00 -
[354]
Originally by: GM Grimmi We are aware of the evenews24 situation and the leaked list being discussed here. At this time we cannot comment on the information in focus but we would like to use this opportunity to remind everyone that buying ISK for real money is a violation of our EULA and anyone doing so risks getting the ISK removed and punitive action against their accounts, including possible permanent bans.
While we would like to be more transparent about the methods and tools we use to fight RMT, botting and such in EVE we must maintain a level of secrecy in order to conduct successful operations. A presentation is scheduled at FanFest later this month where these matters will be discussed in some detail.
not good enough.
ccp used to treat players like customers, put our concerns first, treat us as valued. you had integrity and were customer focused.
now your behaving like a bank or a mobile phone company who thinks they can just ignore our concerns until pressure mounts to the point you have to deal with it as it might become embarrising enough to put off investors.
or at least that is the way you appear to be at the moment from your lack of communication on these issues and how eventually you react to them.
you've dropped the ball ccp and waiting even longer to pick it up again at some developer ass kissing event where 0.1% of the eve community will be present is not good enough.
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Aessoroz
Nohbdy.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 06:31:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Marconus Orion A lot of NC alliances on that list. I take it voting for a candidate for CSM that is in an NC alliance is a vote for RMT?
Play it safe and just vote for Seleene tbh.
NC alliances buying isk alright. Now the better point is, guess which alliances are supplying the isk 8)
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 06:38:00 -
[356]
Nop the question is which alliances want the botting gone (personally i cant give a crap about RMT: botting, hacking, etc is an issue for me. I dont care if they use the isk they obtain to sell it to others who buy a titan or buy a titan directly themselves.
Quote: His point was that many people are too busy in their lives and want to enjoy the ENJOYABLE parts of the games without having to do the GRIND in the games ("grind" does not equal "work" in all cases).
While I do agree that MMOs are way too grindy and if you make something that is optimized for bots instead of for humans you should not be surprised a bot does it, it still does not give you the right to cheat. The enjoyable part of BF:BC2 is imo killing someone, not dying. So now it is fine for me to install an infinite HP hack?
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MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:01:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
RMT'ers are the bane of MMO's, they rely entirely on poorly educated people such as yourself, to spread the idea that RMT is ok, that it is a victimless crime and that everyone benefits. Well here is a news flash sunshine, they profit. Not CCP, not you, not decent players, just them. But you go ahead thinking that RMT'ers are charging TMV and that CCP are "Teh big ebil company" ripping you off.
Look, the fact that you aren't intelligent enough to even see my stance is not my problem and is the reason why I'm not going to invest the time and effort into refuting your logical fallacies and narrow-viewed unsubstantiated "facts". Again, learn to reading comprehend.
Ultimately what I was saying (and I'll try to dumb it down real good just for you cupcake) is this whole shebang is kinda pointless. CCP will do what they can given the path they have chosen, we will drive that action with *****ing, and in the end everything will pretty much stay as it is. (and because you fail reading, I'll put in that I am rather ambivalent about it either way, other than my stance that ANY METHOD of using out of game resources to gain in game assets is fscking stupid and defeats the purpose of playing the game to begin with.)
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:18:00 -
[358]
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Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:21:00 -
[359]
ITT: people too lazy to use macros and stupid enough to give their credit card details to some suspicious website. Amusing ... :-/
How to PVP: 1. buy ISK with GTCs, 2. fit cloak, learn aggro mechanics, 3. buy second account for metagaming
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Corozan Aspinall
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:25:00 -
[360]
Originally by: Pan Crastus ITT: people too lazy to use macros and stupid enough to give their credit card details to some suspicious website. Amusing ... :-/
Even more funny is giving them to an eastern european suspicious website ..
---------------------------------- Want to play EVE for FREE? This character is for sale. |
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MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:50:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Furb Killer
While I do agree that MMOs are way too grindy and if you make something that is optimized for bots instead of for humans you should not be surprised a bot does it, it still does not give you the right to cheat. The enjoyable part of BF:BC2 is imo killing someone, not dying. So now it is fine for me to install an infinite HP hack?
This is what I was getting at. The only thing I am "for" is a good gaming experience. I do not believe there is any easy fix to this problem. I actually think the fact that making isk is (generally) not fun is terrible for the game as a whole and may be the root of the problem. Or maybe its just the repetition.
Actual work and effort invested in this game is a huge part of what makes it enjoyable. However some don't think half-afk missioning/mining for two hours a night w/e really feels like an accomplishment. It feels like a chore, and these are the most basic methods of obtaining isk, so this is all many people consider. That is 1st part of problem.
So then, that creates a demand. People want stuff and to be involved, but they don't want to need to sit there numbing their brains for a sizeable fraction of their lives and feel cheated afterwards. So here come bots and people-bots.
This always happens as people are different, but in the here and now, unlike any time before (to my observation) the scale and noticeable impact is quite bad.
Look to how cheap and easy to get everything is, and the number of supercaps hell even alts/chars and people's mentality about them.
I could be wrong, and this could be the natural maturation of the game, however it's pretty dumb in all I think, and I wish something would set our eve straight
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Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:52:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/03/2011 07:52:11
Originally by: Barakkus Just be glad EVE isn't run by Blizzard, you'd have more RMT than you can shake a stick at.
With most interesting drops being BoP and good items being sold for non-transferrable currencies only (Justice points, Valor points, Honor points, Tol Barad commendations, ...) gold is not particularly useful in WoW.
People would have to hand over their character/account for someone else to farm dungeons/raids/battlegrounds if they want to buy good gear for RL money and the perceived risk that you don't get your character back is pretty high.
Picking together your equipment from BoE items that you can buy for gold on the auction house doesn't work that well (haven't played WoW for some time but when I left you could only buy the crafted ilevel 339 pvp gear, very few heroic BoE items from raid trash and the Darkmoon cards on the AH).
The player-driven market in EVE where you can sell any item for ISK makes RMT extremely attractive when compared to WoW.
game design is imo much more important in this case than GM policies.
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MidnightReign
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:52:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Pan Crastus ITT: people too lazy to use macros and stupid enough to give their credit card details to some suspicious website. Amusing ... :-/
And right here is my big idealogical problem. I DO FEEL STUPID FOR NOT USING MACROS.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.10 07:54:00 -
[364]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler or at least that is the way you appear to be at the moment from your lack of communication on these issues and how eventually you react to them.
How is CCP going to communicate to you that they are doing stuff about RMT and botting, without communicating exactly the same information to the RMTers and botters?
How is CCP going to kerb-stomp RMTers and Botters if they let people know what they're doing?
The only way CCP can have any impact on RMTers and Botters is to trace down every supplier, seller and ingame contact and ban all those accounts simultaneously. RMTer networks are like couch grass - leave a fragment of a root in the ground and the grass will be back bigger and stronger next year.
CCP doesn't even have the option of taking off and nuking the site from orbit, since all the other plants in this metaphorical garden are legitimate, paying customers.
No communication is the only communication that CCP can really engage in, without releasing weak-sauce devblogs or giving the game away.
-- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Christos Hendez
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:12:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Orkasm Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:09:13 Interesting too see what happens here, is CCP gonna face down the ****storm on banning people using data gained via illegal means?
Nah, theyll just say they dont ahve proof that the data wasnt fabricated. ----- Russian | English | French
AAA Diplomat WAR.H |
UGWidowmaker
Caldari freelancers inc -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:12:00 -
[366]
ive seen that alot of alliances have members who bought isk
could we please get names of the people in the alliances who have done so. oif ccp wont do something im sure the alliances will.
thx OMFG
I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:16:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Christos Hendez
Originally by: Orkasm Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:09:13 Interesting too see what happens here, is CCP gonna face down the ****storm on banning people using data gained via illegal means?
Nah, theyll just say they dont ahve proof that the data wasnt fabricated.
Still data gained via illicit or illegal means is not viable evidence in any modern legal system. CCP using this for bannage could be very bad for them, especially since the source - and I quote - from EN24
Quote: Provided by an anonymous source
They cant even verify the source. Fishy if they use it tbh.
Also, get ur russkie ass to Fanfest!
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Caminja
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:18:00 -
[368]
This just in:
Evenews has obtained personal information on thousands of people and not destroyed it or reported it to the police. Evenews has read said information making them now criminally liable.
Breaking Update: Evenews24 staff arrested and sued by thousands of people
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Jada Maroo
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:28:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Orkasm Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:09:13 Interesting too see what happens here, is CCP gonna face down the ****storm on banning people using data gained via illegal means?
This isn't a courtroom and CCP aren't real police. There's no fruit of the poisonous tree defense here. They can use published information, however tainted it may be, to crosscheck the names for suspicious activies all they want.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:37:00 -
[370]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Malcanis He's yet to explain why this is a worse motive to shoot someone than any of the other motives that inspire us to shoot each other.
I think coming back from a long holiday to find your erstwhile friends have booted you from alliance and banned you from forums/Teamspeak based on a faked invoice for RMT services would rate as a little worse than a bunch of neck beards blowing up your officer-fit Golem.
Sensible people might not do such a thing, but even sensible people faced with claims of outrageous crimes will behave stupidly. Some people are particularly vehement about RMT.
I find I can bear the in-game sufferings of cheaters with tremendous fortitude.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:39:00 -
[371]
Heh squeaky bum time for a lot of people in this thread
Amusing watching people from the offending alliances (and Whitehound) trying to claim nothing can be done because the data is "illegal" or can't be proven.
Wake up call - anyone who has bought RMT'd isk is cheating scum and this is a GAME. CCP can do whatever they like and if you're one of these litigation-happy *****s (hello America!) then you can sue them in an ICELANDIC court for that's where the agreement is formed*. Here's a hint for you though - you'll lose.
I hope they permaban the whole ****ing lot of you
*Relevant EULA extract : "The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.
The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland."
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:48:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:53:50 Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:50:31
Originally by: Othran Heh squeaky bum time for a lot of people in this thread
Amusing watching people from the offending alliances (and Whitehound) trying to claim nothing can be done because the data is "illegal" or can't be proven.
Wake up call - anyone who has bought RMT'd isk is cheating scum and this is a GAME. CCP can do whatever they like and if you're one of these litigation-happy *****s (hello America!) then you can sue them in an ICELANDIC court for that's where the agreement is formed*. Here's a hint for you though - you'll lose.
I hope they permaban the whole ****ing lot of you
*Relevant EULA extract : "The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.
The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland."
So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again.
Originally by: Othran Wake up call - anyone who has bought RMT'd isk is cheating scum and this is a GAME
This is my point there is no verifable EVIDENCE that any of these people have RMT'd all you have is a document thats supposedly leaked from some ISK seller, no chain of custody to prove its not been altered etc. Innocent untill PROVEN guilty my friend, that document wouldnt stand up 2 seconds in ANY court which i remind you under the EULA yes CCP can abn you for pretty much anything but as you quoted you CAN take it to court in iceland. Plus the PR would be bad for CCP :)
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:53:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Orkasm So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again.
"Fruits of the poisonous tree" is a US concept. Its not valid in most countries outside the US. For example, UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, South Africa.....
Perhaps you'd be better sticking to US games mmm? At least then you can threaten them with your "lawyer".
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:56:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Orkasm Still data gained via illicit or illegal means is not viable evidence in any modern legal system. CCP using this for bannage could be very bad for them, especially since the source - and I quote - from EN24
Except; CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all. If CCP decides to react upon the given information there is nothing those hit with the ban-hammer can do.
-- Mr. Science & Trade Institute - EVE Lorebook - Mysteries of W-space |
Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 08:56:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Orkasm So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again.
"Fruits of the poisonous tree" is a US concept. Its not valid in most countries outside the US. For example, UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, South Africa.....
Perhaps you'd be better sticking to US games mmm? At least then you can threaten them with your "lawyer".
There are infact similar concept in other countries, and im from scotland not the states. Evidence this flimsy wouldnt get anywhere lol.
|
Echo Mae
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:01:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Orkasm
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Orkasm So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again.
"Fruits of the poisonous tree" is a US concept. Its not valid in most countries outside the US. For example, UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, South Africa.....
Perhaps you'd be better sticking to US games mmm? At least then you can threaten them with your "lawyer".
There are infact similar concept in other countries, and im from scotland not the states. Evidence this flimsy wouldnt get anywhere lol.
As the poster directly above you pointed out, CCP can ban you for any reason, or NO reason at all and only because they get a green hair up their bum and decide they don't like you. You agreed to that provision when you agreed to the EULA and logged into the game. Furthermore, you also agreed that any dispute you may HAVE with CCP must be resolved in an Icelandic courtroom, and not in any other country, thus.. you basically, have no legal leg to stand on no matter how hard you try to scream and yell about it. So.. in effect... LOL at your other nations 'laws' and any 'threats' you might make through them. ----- ** ----- I thought I was real but found out I was just a forum troll |
Hayaku Codolle
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:03:00 -
[377]
I notice quite a weird state of mind in this topic...
Some say "ban the f**kers!!!11111oneoneone11eleveneleveln" Well... the damage is already done, I have seen in the past 24h that some of the characters are already kicked out of there corp. There change to join a new corp are not high. (unless the corp recruitment policy is crappy/sloppy) So in general, these characters and accounts associated to them are branded for life.
So I doubt CCP will ban these characters/accounts, but I do believe that this information will give a rare insight in how RMT shops operate.
Other people go like "what is so bad about RMT?"
Well the bad part is that we, the players of EVE Online, see the value of our game items go out of line with what there actually suppose to be. Other parties that are NOT interested in a fun game experience (unlike most of us posting here) are more into getting rare modules, bucket loads of ISK, expensive ships and PLEX cards with whatever means possible. This might include, botting, hacking, phishing, extortion and you name it. Not to get a fun gaming experience, but for money. To put it simple, the will go over the back of normal EVE Online players. Not saying that all RMT shops will affect us players in this way, but a "fair" RMT shop owner will soon realize that he will have more success if he execute all the above mention options. Almost any sensible MMO company recognizes these problems, and by default outlaw RMT activities. The second one and perhaps slightly less visual thing is that CCP is left out of the loop on RMT. The will never see that money, and by all means will never benefit from it in anyway way. For the few happy customers that a RMT shop makes, CCP will have to cover many reports about botting, hacked accounts and other associated problems in there customer support. Not to mention the serverload, and many other related problems that are clearly pointed out in this DEV blog about the Unholy Rage.
And the stupid thing is, CCP is providing the option to sell PLEX cards to get ISK, and the last time I checked, ISK is still the currency that you can use to buy almost anything within the EVE Online universe.
|
Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:04:00 -
[378]
Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 09:05:07
Originally by: Echo Mae
Originally by: Orkasm
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Orkasm So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again.
"Fruits of the poisonous tree" is a US concept. Its not valid in most countries outside the US. For example, UK, Canada, Australia, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, South Africa.....
Perhaps you'd be better sticking to US games mmm? At least then you can threaten them with your "lawyer".
There are infact similar concept in other countries, and im from scotland not the states. Evidence this flimsy wouldnt get anywhere lol.
As the poster directly above you pointed out, CCP can ban you for any reason, or NO reason at all and only because they get a green hair up their bum and decide they don't like you. You agreed to that provision when you agreed to the EULA and logged into the game. Furthermore, you also agreed that any dispute you may HAVE with CCP must be resolved in an Icelandic courtroom, and not in any other country, thus.. you basically, have no legal leg to stand on no matter how hard you try to scream and yell about it. So.. in effect... LOL at your other nations 'laws' and any 'threats' you might make through them.
meh tbh :care: my names not on the list, good for a nice intellectual debate tho >_<
Anywhoo gotta go to uni and do python before fanfest :( have fun trolling RMTing ***gots
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Kogh Ayon
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:06:00 -
[379]
Edited by: Kogh Ayon on 10/03/2011 09:06:43 Seems somebody here talking about evidence. Probably he has been used to be asked for evidence to justify the reason why did he refused to borrow the hose.
|
Echo Mae
Caldari State War Academy
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:10:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Orkasm
meh tbh I :care: my names not on the list, good for a nice intellectual debate tho >_<
Anywhoo gotta go to uni and do python :( have fun trolling RMTing ***gots
Python.. gads, I have a book called Programming Python (an O Reilly book), playing HELL getting through it. I crack the book open to study it, and almost instantly fall asleep. Better than my Lunestra for insomnia. ----- ** ----- I thought I was real but found out I was just a forum troll |
|
Kogh Ayon
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:12:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle I notice quite a weird state of mind in this topic...
Some say "ban the f**kers!!!11111oneoneone11eleveneleveln" Well... the damage is already done, I have seen in the past 24h that some of the characters are already kicked out of there corp. There change to join a new corp are not high. (unless the corp recruitment policy is crappy/sloppy) So in general, these characters and accounts associated to them are branded for life.
So I doubt CCP will ban these characters/accounts, but I do believe that this information will give a rare insight in how RMT shops operate.
Other people go like "what is so bad about RMT?"
Well the bad part is that we, the players of EVE Online, see the value of our game items go out of line with what there actually suppose to be. Other parties that are NOT interested in a fun game experience (unlike most of us posting here) are more into getting rare modules, bucket loads of ISK, expensive ships and PLEX cards with whatever means possible. This might include, botting, hacking, phishing, extortion and you name it. Not to get a fun gaming experience, but for money. To put it simple, the will go over the back of normal EVE Online players. Not saying that all RMT shops will affect us players in this way, but a "fair" RMT shop owner will soon realize that he will have more success if he execute all the above mention options. Almost any sensible MMO company recognizes these problems, and by default outlaw RMT activities. The second one and perhaps slightly less visual thing is that CCP is left out of the loop on RMT. The will never see that money, and by all means will never benefit from it in anyway way. For the few happy customers that a RMT shop makes, CCP will have to cover many reports about botting, hacked accounts and other associated problems in there customer support. Not to mention the serverload, and many other related problems that are clearly pointed out in this DEV blog about the Unholy Rage.
And the stupid thing is, CCP is providing the option to sell PLEX cards to get ISK, and the last time I checked, ISK is still the currency that you can use to buy almost anything within the EVE Online universe.
You can never distinguish drug abuse, but if you stop/slow down to doing so, things will be much worse.
|
Hayaku Codolle
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:19:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Kogh Ayon You can never distinguish drug abuse, but if you stop/slow down to doing so, things will be much worse.
hmmm drug abuser as a synonym for RMT customer...
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:20:00 -
[383]
Originally by: Orkasm Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:09:13 Interesting too see what happens here, is CCP gonna face down the ****storm on banning people using data gained via illegal means?
Afraid to lose half of your BFF ?
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:22:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Orkasm Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:09:13 Interesting too see what happens here, is CCP gonna face down the ****storm on banning people using data gained via illegal means?
Afraid to lose half of your BFF ?
Not really; was more of a discussion read the rest of the thread before posting.
Begone Troll.
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:35:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Orkasm Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:53:50 Edited by: Orkasm on 10/03/2011 08:50:31
Originally by: Othran Heh squeaky bum time for a lot of people in this thread
Amusing watching people from the offending alliances (and Whitehound) trying to claim nothing can be done because the data is "illegal" or can't be proven.
Wake up call - anyone who has bought RMT'd isk is cheating scum and this is a GAME. CCP can do whatever they like and if you're one of these litigation-happy *****s (hello America!) then you can sue them in an ICELANDIC court for that's where the agreement is formed*. Here's a hint for you though - you'll lose.
I hope they permaban the whole ****ing lot of you
*Relevant EULA extract : "The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.
The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland."
So the laws of the republic of Iceland allow for evidence gained via illegal means to be submitted as binding evidence? sweet **** the chain of custody, make up some random complete BS document and submit it. Im sooo moving to iceland much easier than sitting this computer forensics degree. Bags easier out there. I can get back to the security and exploitz i used to enjoy as a kid in my basement again.
Originally by: Othran Wake up call - anyone who has bought RMT'd isk is cheating scum and this is a GAME
This is my point there is no verifable EVIDENCE that any of these people have RMT'd all you have is a document thats supposedly leaked from some ISK seller, no chain of custody to prove its not been altered etc. Innocent untill PROVEN guilty my friend, that document wouldnt stand up 2 seconds in ANY court which i remind you under the EULA yes CCP can abn you for pretty much anything but as you quoted you CAN take it to court in iceland. Plus the PR would be bad for CCP :)
The point is that you have no rights at all to start with. CCP can use "illegal evidence" to ban you, or then can pull petals from daisys or they can roll a dice or tjhey can decide they just dont like you. There are no legal issues whatsoever. They aren't taking you to court, they're just saying "we dont want you as a customer". And that's their absolute right, even in the US.
And, as has been said about 857 times already, it's a moot point in any case. They're not going to ban someone purely because they're on this list; but they might well choose to investiogate the accounts of characters named on this list. Any action taken against those accounts will be as a result of the investigation, not the list.
Stop watching Perry Mason re-runs. This isn't a cop show. It's a bunch of people who have been caught red-handed cheating in a game, and are now about to be sent off by the ref.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Plague Black
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:40:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Caminja This just in:
Evenews has obtained personal information on thousands of people and not destroyed it or reported it to the police. Evenews has read said information making them now criminally liable.
Breaking Update: Evenews24 staff arrested and sued by thousands of people
You don't know much about law do you? Or were you on the list with your main char ans simply need to troll out of anger?
There is nothing criminal in what isk sellers are doing (unless maybe hiding their income from local authorities).
There is nothing criminal about what isk buysers are doing. They are breaching NDA but NDA is not the law of any country. You do not go to jail for breaching NDA, in fact CCP's NDA is illegal in many countries and if things ever get to court CCP would lose 100% of times. I'm sure CCP lawyers know this well as they had to revert some of their decisions way back when they went judging which name is suitable for corporations.
Since there is no crime to be seen there is nothing criminal in what EVE NEWS is doing. Good job EN, publish everything and fear nothing.
Which leaves the ball in CCP's court. It is their NDA that got breached and it is up to them to take action, ban player accounts who bought and sold isk and reverse all transactions.
Now imagine things went your way and CCP went to Russian authorities saying something like:
CCP > "Hey Russians some of your guys are selling our ingame currency for hard cash. 300,000$ a year! We want you to handle it!!!" Ruskies > "300,000$? Selling virtual stuff? Whoa, we wish we had some more of people like that bringing in money to Russian economy. Pass us details of your game and we can start country wide isk selling programm. We need every penny we can get!" CCP > "But they signed NDA..." Ruskies > "Do you have a builateral agreement with Russian Federation?" CCP > "A Bi... what?" Ruskies > "Svetlana, prepare some PCs we have another economy recovery project to run, some virtual spaceship thingie. Da! It will be glorious!!!" Click... Tooot tooot toot CCP > "Helo? Heloooo? Helooooo?"
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:41:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Orkasm There are infact similar concept in other countries, and im from scotland not the states. Evidence this flimsy wouldnt get anywhere lol.
Then you have ZERO clue about the subject and are making a fool of yourself so I suggest you stfu and stop embarrassing yourself in public.
There is no such concept as "illegal evidence" either in the Scottish legal system, NI, or that of England & Wales. Nor is there any such concept in European (EU) law.
Evidence which is obtained illegally IS valid evidence pretty much everywhere (that has any rule of law) outside the USA. The person/persons who obtained the evidence illegally may face charges/prosecution but that does NOT invalidate the evidence.
Anyway your alliance has been caught with their fingers in the till so pretty obvious why you're here I reckon....
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Nikonna
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 09:42:00 -
[388]
I'm pretty sure EULA says CCP can ban you any time without any reason other then wanting to ban you. So all 'illegal evidence' talk is pointless |
Hoya en Marland
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 10:06:00 -
[389]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all.
Repetead once again because some people still don't realize that everything you have on your account, including account itself, is property of CCP and therefore can be taken away from you in any time, with no explanation given.
|
Nina Mercedez
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 10:53:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Jada Maroo The only ones who should be taking action are CCP. Now if they don't... then we have to start questioning how legitimate Eve is as a game.
Start? Start?! lol, you said "start".
/me points and stuff.
|
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speedek
Spricer
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:11:00 -
[391]
you have to realise that iskbank is just ONE of the many ISK sellers, if everyone was making such nice money, CCP is losing millions of dollars each year ;)
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:20:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Jowen Datloran CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all.
Repetead once again because some people still don't realize that everything you have on your account, including account itself, is property of CCP and therefore can be taken away from you in any time, with no explanation given.
If CCP is breaking the law by acting on information obtained by hacking another company, then the eula is worthless. CCP may not be able to freely act on the information handed to them, when it's obtained by committing a crime.
If CCP infact is breaking the law to closing accouns, based on the iskbank database, they can be forced by icelandic cout of law to reopen them. Anyone can write the icelandic data protection agency, which is under the justice department, and explain them the situation, if they find the matter suspicious they will investigate it and try the case under cout of law if they find any laws have been broken.
If the customers of iskbank.com are not breaking any icelandic laws, the data protection agency is very liekly to rule that CCP can't lawfully use the iskbank database without the consent of iskbank and the iskbank customers.
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Freelancer117
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:22:00 -
[393]
Bots, Lag, RMT, Untested new content, nerfing stuff around the things that need fixing, FW, empty promises,
the list of fails compound CCP
if you say soonÖ one more time at fanfest you should just turn off the light switch and go.
only reason why I play eve; internet chatrooms with music from www.eve-radio.com and we can use IRC clients for that, not this game fyi, think about that.
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Unej
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:22:00 -
[394]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Jowen Datloran CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all.
Repetead once again because some people still don't realize that everything you have on your account, including account itself, is property of CCP and therefore can be taken away from you in any time, with no explanation given.
If CCP is breaking the law by acting on information obtained by hacking another company, then the eula is worthless. CCP may not be able to freely act on the information handed to them, when it's obtained by committing a crime.
If CCP infact is breaking the law to closing accouns, based on the iskbank database, they can be forced by icelandic cout of law to reopen them. Anyone can write the icelandic data protection agency, which is under the justice department, and explain them the situation, if they find the matter suspicious they will investigate it and try the case under cout of law if they find any laws have been broken.
If the customers of iskbank.com are not breaking any icelandic laws, the data protection agency is very liekly to rule that CCP can't lawfully use the iskbank database without the consent of iskbank and the iskbank customers.
so how much isk did you buy? lol :)
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:24:00 -
[395]
Originally by: Othran Evidence which is obtained illegally IS valid evidence pretty much everywhere (that has any rule of law) outside the USA. The person/persons who obtained the evidence illegally may face charges/prosecution but that does NOT invalidate the evidence.
What does invalidate the evidence is the lack of evidence trail. If the records aren't kept correctly from the time the evidence is initially found till the time it's presented in court, the evidence is invalid and cannot be submitted as evidence for the case.
The best that you'd hope to gain from "leaked" databases that were "stolen" from an ISK seller, is a couple of good tipoffs.
Apparently the lynch mobs are in action already though. BoB/IT should do more of these metagame fake leaks since it's apparently working better than their ingame campaign.
-- A vote for NC candidates is a vote for RMT [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel] |
Cergorach
Amarr The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:24:00 -
[396]
Let me start of by saying that I do not like RMT, but...
RMT isn't illegal, it's against the EULA, which might be considered a breach of contract which isn't an illegal act. Illegal is an action that is against the law. There's always the question whether an EULA is legally binding or even legal in itself, but that is a whole different discussion.
Then we have the data, it was obtained by hacking, which is illegal. Publishing that data might be considered a breach of privacy and could be illegal, depending where your located.
There's also the question of the data is legitimacy, was it fabricated (partly or in whole) or is it 'real'. I can see this being the next step in out of game Alliance/Corporate warfare, this list completely destroys the reputation of the folks listed on it, with a small chance of some serious repercussions for the folks listed on that list (CCP bans before checking facts).
I hope that CCP is checking all those accounts and it isn't a hoax, because CCP has better things to do then that.
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:26:00 -
[397]
Originally by: Cergorach Let me start of by saying that I do not like RMT, but...
RMT isn't illegal, it's against the EULA, which might be considered a breach of contract which isn't an illegal act. Illegal is an action that is against the law. There's always the question whether an EULA is legally binding or even legal in itself, but that is a whole different discussion.
Then we have the data, it was obtained by hacking, which is illegal. Publishing that data might be considered a breach of privacy and could be illegal, depending where your located.
There's also the question of the data is legitimacy, was it fabricated (partly or in whole) or is it 'real'. I can see this being the next step in out of game Alliance/Corporate warfare, this list completely destroys the reputation of the folks listed on it, with a small chance of some serious repercussions for the folks listed on that list (CCP bans before checking facts).
I hope that CCP is checking all those accounts and it isn't a hoax, because CCP has better things to do then that.
^ That was essentially my point too :)
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 11:28:00 -
[398]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Jowen Datloran CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all.
Repetead once again because some people still don't realize that everything you have on your account, including account itself, is property of CCP and therefore can be taken away from you in any time, with no explanation given.
If CCP is breaking the law by acting on information obtained by hacking another company,
Sorry, which law is this?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Miss Connolly
Public Relations Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:34:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Miss Connolly on 10/03/2011 11:35:09 Just a quick FYI for you ISK buyers that are whining about the information being gleaned illegally: Germany bought a CD with stolen bank account data a few months ago so they could find people that were evading taxes.
If a normal (well sort of) government does this kind of thing then why should CCP not act on this information as well? CCP didn't even pay the thief/hacker (like in the case of stolen bank data). ___________________ "It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
These are the people you are giving your money to. |
Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:39:00 -
[400]
Edited by: Fulbert on 10/03/2011 11:41:19 Edited by: Fulbert on 10/03/2011 11:39:30
Originally by: Cergorach
RMT isn't illegal, it's against the EULA, which might be considered a breach of contract which isn't an illegal act. Illegal is an action that is against the law. There's always the question whether an EULA is legally binding or even legal in itself, but that is a whole different discussion.
Sorry, but RMT may be illegal, if you consider national laws about (or against!) gambling. I'm 80% sure it's illegal in France. If you can convert your virtual gains in real money, that makes EVE online like an online casino... with relevant taxes and stuff. BTW, buying ISK isn't illegal, for sure. ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best browser MMO of them all |
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:40:00 -
[401]
Originally by: Unej
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Jowen Datloran CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all.
Repetead once again because some people still don't realize that everything you have on your account, including account itself, is property of CCP and therefore can be taken away from you in any time, with no explanation given.
If CCP is breaking the law by acting on information obtained by hacking another company, then the eula is worthless. CCP may not be able to freely act on the information handed to them, when it's obtained by committing a crime.
If CCP infact is breaking the law to closing accouns, based on the iskbank database, they can be forced by icelandic cout of law to reopen them. Anyone can write the icelandic data protection agency, which is under the justice department, and explain them the situation, if they find the matter suspicious they will investigate it and try the case under cout of law if they find any laws have been broken.
If the customers of iskbank.com are not breaking any icelandic laws, the data protection agency is very liekly to rule that CCP can't lawfully use the iskbank database without the consent of iskbank and the iskbank customers.
so how much isk did you buy? lol :)
non, with my massive 5M sp i don't really have the need for buying isk.
The data protection agency on iceland works the same way as in denmark and the rest of the eu, and they do see the protection of personal information as a serious matter. Most companies that engage in unlawfull activities which involves missuse of information lose the case when it's tryed, CCP would probably lose just from the principle that you are not allowed to steal data and treat it as an asset.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:41:00 -
[402]
The most 2nd most interesting thing about this thread are the players who reckon CCP will be in the wrong if they act on this information!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Christos Hendez
Warhamsters Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:44:00 -
[403]
Originally by: Plague Black Edited by: Plague Black on 10/03/2011 09:51:58 CCP > "Hey Russians some of your guys are selling our ingame currency for hard cash. 300,000$ a year! We want you to handle it!!!" Ruskies > "300,000$? Selling virtual stuff? Whoa, we wish we had some more of people like that bringing in money to Russian economy. Pass us details of your game and we can start country wide isk selling programm. We need every penny we can get!" CCP > "But they signed NDA..." Ruskies > "Do you have a bilateral agreement with Russian Federation?" CCP > "A Bi... what?" Ruskies > "Svetlana, prepare some PCs we have another economy recovery project to run, some virtual spaceship thingie. Da! It will be glorious!!!" Click... Tooot tooot toot CCP > "Helo? Heloooo? Helooooo?"
Brilliant :) ----- Russian | English | French
AAA Diplomat WAR.H |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:45:00 -
[404]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Hoya en Marland
Originally by: Jowen Datloran CCP can legally deny you access to their server for no reason at all.
Repetead once again because some people still don't realize that everything you have on your account, including account itself, is property of CCP and therefore can be taken away from you in any time, with no explanation given.
If CCP is breaking the law by acting on information obtained by hacking another company,
Sorry, which law is this?
EU law
Directive 95/46/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 24 October 1995 on the protection of individuals with regard to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data
You can start here related diretives are mentioned in the text.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:47:00 -
[405]
It is illegal to access a system that you do not have permission to access.
It is illegal to take data from a hacked system.
It is illegal to do illegal things with stolen data.
It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:55:00 -
[406]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
If the iskbank costomers are not breaking any law they are protected by eu law, and it would not be legal for CCP use data given to iskbank without the consent of the comstomer.
Under EU law it's illegal for two companies two share customer data without the customer knowing and agree to this.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:56:00 -
[407]
lol at the legal experts arguing here.
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 11:58:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol at the legal experts arguing here.
people have jobs outside eve yo
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:04:00 -
[409]
Originally by: dexingtonUnder EU law it's illegal for two companies two share customer data without the customer knowing and agree to this.[/quote
It is illegal to GIVE the data without customer permission.
It is NOT illegal to use data that has been made public through illegal activity, as long as you took no part in the theft and public release of that data.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:04:00 -
[410]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 10/03/2011 12:05:03
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: LHA Tarawa It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
If the iskbank costomers are not breaking any law they are protected by eu law, and it would not be legal for CCP use data given to iskbank without the consent of the comstomer.
Under EU law it's illegal for two companies two share customer data without the customer knowing and agree to this.
Actually, under EU law ISKBank are legally responsible for safeguarding their customer data.
I'm reasonably sure that since they got hacked and non-authorised people had access to the data, then it could be argued that they have failed in that repsonsibility and could be sued.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:06:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Orkasm
Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol at the legal experts arguing here.
people have jobs outside eve yo
I think I need a dump "yo"
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:08:00 -
[412]
Originally by: dexington
If the customers of iskbank.com are not breaking any icelandic laws, the data protection agency is very liekly to rule that CCP can't lawfully use the iskbank database without the consent of iskbank and the iskbank customers.
Give the forum troll some rest already... If CCP wants to launch investigation on some peoples accounts they will do that. If the characters what were pointed in some leaked list are included in that investigation, it is just tough luck for them.
I believe it is safe to say, that most legimate honest eve players in here don't give a crap about some rmt dealers legal rights or some pro rmt posts, which authors desperately try to keep their sinking boat above waterline. We can see thru that propaganda already.
The RMT element is and surely will always be there, but recent events clearly state that the community is fighting back and helping CCP various stuff. No matter what the trolls or rmt/bot lovers in here say, cheaters lives can and will be made much more difficult in the future.
...and I will sue your trolly bum if you quote me without any solid evidence that I've given you written permission to quote my text which was obtained from 5th party leaky eveleaks site by some Icelandic anonymous hacker with iHack portable.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Terrible Damage
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:10:00 -
[413]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbIFx1u8jzc
Go!
Well everybody's sayin' that they're not so bad Everybody's sayin' that we need 'em bad Well everybody's got their ****in' heads up their ass
Everybody tells me they perform a service But the same ****in' people say they drive 'em nervous Well make your ****in' mind up, you stupid ****
If you want to see them cry Poke 'em in the eye Put their fingers in the socket and watch them fry
Cheaters must die
Everybody's sayin' that they drive 'em nuts But when it comes to revenge they ain't got the guts Well crawl back into your little 'ole, you little rat
United and strong we can fight them back Teach them all a ****ing lesson that they'll never forget And watch the little bastards come crawling back
"I'm sorry"
If you want to see them cry Poke 'em in the eye Put their fingers in the socket and watch them fry
Cheaters must die
If you want to see them cry Poke 'em in the eye Put their fingers in the socket and watch them fry
Cheaters must...
If you want to see them cry Poke 'em in the eye Put their fingers in the socket and watch them fry
How was your weekend? Good?
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:13:00 -
[414]
Originally by: Terrible Damage http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbIFx1u8jzc
something
I'm clicking like mad on your link, but nothing's happening.
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Jones Bones
Heretic Army
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:13:00 -
[415]
CCP can ban you for just about anything. Have any of you actually read the EULA? It's their sandbox, you are merely a guest playing in their sandbox.
I've also yet to see proof that this database was hacked and not simply copied/distributed by one of the operator's.
Some mad RMTer's up in here.
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Terrible Damage
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:14:00 -
[416]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
I'm clicking like mad on your link, but nothing's happening.
use BRAIN on WORDS
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:16:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 10/03/2011 12:05:03
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: LHA Tarawa It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
If the iskbank costomers are not breaking any law they are protected by eu law, and it would not be legal for CCP use data given to iskbank without the consent of the comstomer.
Under EU law it's illegal for two companies two share customer data without the customer knowing and agree to this.
Actually, under EU law ISKBank are legally responsible for safeguarding their customer data.
I'm reasonably sure that since they got hacked and non-authorised people had access to the data, then it could be argued that they have failed in that repsonsibility and could be sued.
That was tryed in denmark 2-3 years ago when a social site was hacked a username, email and passwords was posted publicly on the internet, they site was cleared of any wrong doing because they had taken required steps to protect the users data.
The main point in that case seemed to be that the passwords had been protected, but hacker had been able to discover many of the password by brute force. Which the sites could'nt be blamed for this because the password strength was decided by the user himself.
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Ms Sexy
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:19:00 -
[418]
Edited by: Ms Sexy on 10/03/2011 12:19:48 I wouldn't be surprised if this isk supply for the isk site came from alliance like those in the drone regions and razor alliance! |
speedek
Spricer
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:19:00 -
[419]
Still the bottom line is, ban buyers and sellers, make this game better place for the rest of us. |
Dawn Black
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:20:00 -
[420]
Edited by: Dawn Black on 10/03/2011 12:20:51 So i'm guessing if they ban every account on their list we will have wat... 10k of people left on-line at night? Prolly also gonna mean that 9/10th of nc and goons are gone?
Neva gonna happen... good for CCP though because now that that souce is known it means more $$$$ for them. |
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:26:00 -
[421]
Now lets focus on the next part
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/ |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:34:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 10/03/2011 12:05:03
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: LHA Tarawa It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
If the iskbank costomers are not breaking any law they are protected by eu law, and it would not be legal for CCP use data given to iskbank without the consent of the comstomer.
Under EU law it's illegal for two companies two share customer data without the customer knowing and agree to this.
Actually, under EU law ISKBank are legally responsible for safeguarding their customer data.
I'm reasonably sure that since they got hacked and non-authorised people had access to the data, then it could be argued that they have failed in that repsonsibility and could be sued.
Is Moldavia in the EU? I must confess I'd assumed that it isn't. If not, then they dont have to care a tinker's cuss about "EU Law". And even if they were in the EU, I doubt IskBank would care anyway. If they got sued, they'd just fold and reform under a new name.
I dont think Iceland is, either, not that CCP are involved in the hacking attempt in any case, so it's irrelevant.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:37:00 -
[423]
Some aspects of this game are starting to stink. I just hope it's not rotten to the core...
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Miss Connolly
Public Relations Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:41:00 -
[424]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
It is NOT illegal to do legal things with stolen data, if you took no part in the inital crime of stealing the data.
I believe this is not correct. If you know (or can reasonably assume) that the data was gained illeagally then it would not be legal to buy the data. It's the same as if you buy a 1000Ç phone for 50Ç from a junkey on the street. The phone will not belong to you (and the police would take it off you) since you would have difficulties claiming that you didn't know (or could assume) it was stolen. In german I believe we call this "treu und glauben". ___________________ "It was mentioned by CCP that the data does not seem to support that polished quality sells better than new features."
These are the people you are giving your money to. |
Siamus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:42:00 -
[425]
For those who haven't realised, pretty sure this list is about eve character SELLING isk, not buying it.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:44:00 -
[426]
Originally by: Siamus For those who haven't realised, pretty sure this list is about eve character SELLING isk, not buying it.
The interviews they've published seem to indicate toherwise.
That said, most RMTers will buy ISK in bulk as well as sell it retail.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Siamus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 12:51:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Siamus on 10/03/2011 12:51:34 Really? Impression I got fro the SHC thread was that it was sellers.
Either way it's a sorry state of affairs :(
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:04:00 -
[428]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 10/03/2011 13:11:00
Originally by: Echo Mae
As the poster directly above you pointed out, CCP can ban you for any reason, or NO reason at all and only because they get a green hair up their bum and decide they don't like you. You agreed to that provision when you agreed to the EULA and logged into the game. Furthermore, you also agreed that any dispute you may HAVE with CCP must be resolved in an Icelandic courtroom, and not in any other country, thus.. you basically, have no legal leg to stand on no matter how hard you try to scream and yell about it. So.. in effect... LOL at your other nations 'laws' and any 'threats' you might make through them.
This simply needs to be repeated for those that missed it...
People need to remember something shocking... there is no Eve. There is no universe where we fly in spaceships and mine asteroids and go "Yar! I'm a pirate!"... it's only data on CCPs computers. They've allowed us to pay to access this data through a proprietary user interface of their design, and they have the full rights by whatever whim or fancy they're feeling to deny any of us access to their data. We're paying them for the ability to modify their data. They can decide for any reason that they don't want any or all of us to do so. It's really that simple. If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it. You have no say. There is no Eve universe, you have no inalienable rights to access their data. You do so on their terms, or gtfo.
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Rguy Amphal
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:05:00 -
[429]
This isn't something new. RMT existed way before this leak, everybody knew it. I don't understand why people are suddenly shocked.
I'd like to see some information about what's CCP doing to fight against bots and RMT. |
Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:12:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Siamus For those who haven't realised, pretty sure this list is about eve character SELLING isk, not buying it.
Reading comprehension FTL.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 13:49:00 -
[431]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:02:00 -
[432]
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use". ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:02:00 -
[433]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 14:03:05
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle
Originally by: Kogh Ayon You can never distinguish drug abuse, but if you stop/slow down to doing so, things will be much worse.
hmmm drug abuser as a synonym for RMT customer...
Friend of mine in EQ2 got banned a couple times for RMT. When he got his final warning about a permaban, he posted on the guild forums about it and mentioned that it was an addiction for him then he promptly cancelled his accounts. Kinda sucked that he had to quit, he was our best dps for raiding. He was spending like $500-$600 a month. So I guess it's is applicable in some cases. He was going to loan me some gold so I could go get my mythical (people would sell raid slots to get your class' mythical weapon). I'm glad I didn't accept the money lol.
He's playing again, but without buying gold. I think he took like 2 years off before coming back. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:09:00 -
[434]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
CCP isn't (or wouldnt' be) breaking any rules, They're simply acting on information received. Besides, it's irrelevant... CCP can do with their system as they see fit. The only rights we have are those given to us by CCP, and what is given can be taken away. We're using their personal private (in the corporate sense) property. They are fully within their rights to use data that was accumulated by a company that has the intent of doing CCP financial harm to purge that harm from their system.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:10:00 -
[435]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
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Ozmodan
Minmatar Massively Mob Massively Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:10:00 -
[436]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
Which universe are you living in? The nice thing is that CCP can look at the DB and verify the information, even those deleting the characters can't get away it is all logged to an account. Once the information is verified expect for the hammer to fall. If you are on this list you are in deep doo doo. Learners permit still current |
Remus Andromedus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:16:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Ozmodan
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst If this list serves as a template for them to investigate and find people messing with their data in ways they don't want, so be it.
Normally you would not be allowed to steal a database as say it servers as an template for whatever, all kinds of rules and laws regarding insider trading and missuse of information servers to protect private and corporate data against people trying to do this.
You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
Which universe are you living in? The nice thing is that CCP can look at the DB and verify the information, even those deleting the characters can't get away it is all logged to an account. Once the information is verified expect for the hammer to fall. If you are on this list you are in deep doo doo.
He seems a little worried, don't you think?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:17:00 -
[438]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
BS, there is not a single person who said CCP should do that. There are only a few who are white knighting for the ISK buyers (or ISK buyers themselves) who keep claiming that the alternatives are either doing nothing or banning everyone on a list.
Every person here who wants this dealt with wants CCP to use this list to check if people indeed RMT'd and then permaban them.
But considering you just made up that most people are 'nerd raging' that CCP should ban them all without investigation i assume you just make something up next post.
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A Little Girl
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:24:00 -
[439]
The internet spaceship lawyers are frightening me! Stop it!
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:26:00 -
[440]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:29:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Ozmodan Which universe are you living in? The nice thing is that CCP can look at the DB and verify the information, even those deleting the characters can't get away it is all logged to an account. Once the information is verified expect for the hammer to fall. If you are on this list you are in deep doo doo.
That may just be the problem, if it was so easy for CCP to detect RMT using their owne database why have they not acted sooner, why would they even need the iskbank database?
One reason could be it's not easy for them to find the data in their system. I'm more inclined to believe they don't care all that much if people buy isk, they just want people to buy their isk, so they are mostly looking for the people botting, which are the people not on that list.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:33:00 -
[442]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database. Just because the database contain information on people buying isk and it would be in the best interest of the eve community does'nt not mean CCP can sit aside all rules and laws and freely use the data.
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your owne best interest.
And what you don't seem to understand is that they don't have to break any rules to act on this data. Note the word: "act", not "use".
Correct, they are free to start and investigation into RMT. What they are not allowed to do, and what most are nerd raging about wanting them to do, is just punish everyone on the list.
Actually, they are completely "allowed" to do exactly that. What's going to happen if they do? The Internet Police come and stop them from saying they dont want those customers any more?
But as said 1282 times already, no-one is actually expecting them to do it anyway. Only to use the list as a basis for investigation.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:33:00 -
[443]
Originally by: A Little Girl The internet spaceship lawyers are frightening me! Stop it!
Will somebody please think of the children!!!
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:39:00 -
[444]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:46:00 -
[445]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
Nope. They can use it. They can even use it as reference, check everyon one the list against their own DB and them act on the evidence in their own DB. They can ban everyone on the list simply because they feel like it, as well as every Amarr player that has a hood. They own the data, they can do with it whatever they want. They have access to data now that was created with the intent to harm CCP financially, they can use that information to prevent further harm.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 14:51:00 -
[446]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
ccp can do what ever they want. whether the eula is broken or not ccp don't have to provide an excuse to terminate an account. the eula is just there as a legal document to tell you this, as well as terms of service.
they could ban every one on that list without any comeback from anyone nor do they have to justify it to anyone.
ccp could ban and delete both of our accounts right now without reason, notice or communicating this to us. they could if they chose take any or all of any accounts isk, items or change or delete and part of a character without warning or justification.
these eulas are standard fair in MMO's.
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
Illegal under what law? I assume you are familiar with Icelandic law that you know of one which forbids this? Can you cite precedent?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:16:00 -
[447]
Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/03/2011 15:16:50
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle The second one and perhaps slightly less visual thing is that CCP is left out of the loop on RMT.
5,540 PLEX sitting idly just in this RMT shop's hangars - that's 96,900$ for CCP that they didn't have to provide any service for.
At the very least this RMT shop created enough PLEX demand to fund about one CCP employee all by itself (and create up to 2770 legit ISK buyers).
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:35:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Now lets focus on the next part
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
Link corrected.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/10/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
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FlameGlow
Gypsy Band
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:35:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Malcanis Is Moldavia in the EU? I must confess I'd assumed that it isn't. If not, then they dont have to care a tinker's cuss about "EU Law". And even if they were in the EU, I doubt IskBank would care anyway. If they got sued, they'd just fold and reform under a new name.
I dont think Iceland is, either, not that CCP are involved in the hacking attempt in any case, so it's irrelevant.
Having lived in Moldova, I can tell you that the best way to harm iskbank would be to tip tax authorities how much money iskbank is making. Not that they would be shut down or taxed on income, but most likely they'll have to pay so much in bribes it'll barely be a profitable operation anymore. |
Shalune Regyri
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Posted - 2011.03.10 15:57:00 -
[450]
>Knows someone with a *lot* of alt accounts >All with the same last name >Finds someone on that list with that last name.
Why am I not surprised.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:14:00 -
[451]
Originally by: dexington You don't seem to understand that someone broke into computer system and stole the database.
We do understand, but that someone was not CCP.
Originally by: dexington
You are not allowed to break the rules just because it's in your own best interest.
The rule is, you can not hack someone's computer. You can't steal their information. You can not post the stolen information to a public forum.
AND!
Once someone you are in no way affiliated with, has hacked a computer, stolen information, and posted it to a public forum, you may use this now publically available information, as long as you are not breaking some other law, like copyright or national security or banking fraud....
It would not be illegal for CCP to ban users for RMT. Therefor, using publically available data that they had no part in the theft or posting of, to ban RMTers, is not breaking the rules.
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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:14:00 -
[452]
Edited by: Valari Nala Zena on 10/03/2011 16:14:50 Holy mother of god!
Stupid bickering about how much more awesome your opinion is than opinion #987022 by anonymous #98708763 in thread #87609212 on internet spaceship game forums #342.
Fact is this: A) CCP will not use this data to investigate. B) CCP will use this data to investigate. -> if B == true, will CCP actually act on the results of the investigation?
Can't we just get an answer CCP? Preferably before all your customers damage their sanity by overheating their brain .
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:19:00 -
[453]
Originally by: dexington
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
Wrong. Who ever stole it had no right to do that. Whoever posted it to a public forum had no right to do that.
Once it is public information, it may be freely used for any non-illegal activity.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:24:00 -
[454]
Originally by: Valari Nala Zena Edited by: Valari Nala Zena on 10/03/2011 16:18:56 Holy mother of god!
Stupid bickering about how much more awesome your opinion is than opinion #987022 by anonymous #98708763 in thread #87609212 on internet spaceship game forums #342.
Fact is this: A) CCP will not use this data to investigate. B) CCP will use this data to investigate. -> if B == true, will CCP actually act on the results of the investigation?
Can't we just get an answer CCP? Preferably before all your customers damage their sanity by overheating their brain (neopallium) .
My guess is they won't punish anyone that hasn't done any RMT within a certain time frame, assuming that it was a one-off deal or that the player decided it was in their best interest to not continue. Those who have recently and often, will more than likely get punished.
It is in CCP's best interests to not be too heavy handed in cases of dealing with buyers. Those generally aren't the people stealing CC numbers or consuming large amounts of server resources. They more than likely will try to destroy the source of the isk before getting too harsh with the buyers.
Really it's none of our business what happens to anyone on that list. If people want to make it their business then they should go hunting them down, not screaming on the forums about how horrible CCP is for not violating privacy agreements. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:33:00 -
[455]
Edited by: dexington on 10/03/2011 16:33:43
Originally by: LHA Tarawa Once someone you are in no way affiliated with, has hacked a computer, stolen information, and posted it to a public forum, you may use this now publically available information, as long as you are not breaking some other law, like copyright or national security or banking fraud....
The database contain personal information given to iskbank by it's customers, you can just claim it as public available information when you are in possession of them only because someone hacked the computer system and send you a copy.
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Clone 1
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:33:00 -
[456]
evenews24.com fighting RMT more than CCP.
Great work evenews24.com.
I got ganked at Za'Ha'Dum, but I am ok now. |
LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:37:00 -
[457]
My guess is that CCP wishes the issue would just go away.
Each account that exists just to bot, is a paid account CCP is making money off of.
Sure, they could dedicate lots of resources to catching these botters and ISK selelrs, but that would be like cutting off thier nose to spite their face.
Better is to make us all believe they are doing something so that we won't emo-rage quit over the unfairness of you enemy making 20 billion ISK a day botting drone regions or spending $1000 real to replace a fleet of super caps that it would take you a year to rebuild using EULA compliant methods, while not actually doing anything.
What are we willing to do? Emo-rage-quit if CCP does not make a concerted effort to permaban all botters? Or put up with it? CCP isn't going to cut off their nose to spite their face unless the face is going to stop paying.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:39:00 -
[458]
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 10/03/2011 16:49:13
Originally by: dexington The database contain personal information given to iskbank by it's customers, you can just claim it as public available information when you are in possession of them only because someone hacked the computer system and send you a copy.
If they just send you a copy, no. But if they post it to a public forum that is publically available, it is public information.
iskbank can go after the hacker. iskbank can go after whomever posted it to a public forum.
However, once it is public, it is public, free to all to use for any non-otherwise illegal activity. That's the law.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:47:00 -
[459]
Edited by: LHA Tarawa on 10/03/2011 16:47:51
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:49:00 -
[460]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Right. Once it is public information, it is public information.
iskbank can go after the hacker. iskbank can go after whomever posted it to a public forum.
However, once it is public, it is public, free to all to use for any non-otherwise illegal activity. That's the law.
The database is the property of iskbank, it's clearly not part of the public domain.
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Hacra
Minmatar Cosmodynamics
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:51:00 -
[461]
Should this list prove to be truthful, the ban hammer damn well better go berserk.
Would not like these cheating idiots be allowed to play.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:52:00 -
[462]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Now lets focus on the next part
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/09/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
Link corrected.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/10/iskbank-com-customers-speak-out/
Thanks... it seems they changed the date on that. Fixed from main post now also.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:52:00 -
[463]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Right. Once it is public information, it is public information.
iskbank can go after the hacker. iskbank can go after whomever posted it to a public forum.
However, once it is public, it is public, free to all to use for any non-otherwise illegal activity. That's the law.
The database is the property of iskbank, it's clearly not part of the public domain.
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
Originally by: Johnny Dexter bombs everyone to Narnia
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:52:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Valari Nala Zena
Originally by: A Little Girl The internet spaceship lawyers are frightening me! Stop it!
Will somebody please think of the children!!!
Someone already did.. *shudders*
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:57:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
That is the same as saying you can publish eg. music in mp3 form on a public site and then it's no longer anyones property and now part of the public domain, unless you live in china things don't work that way.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 16:58:00 -
[466]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 17:00:02
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Do. you. understand. yet?
He's not terribly bright and supports RMT, so you're sorta wasting your breath :P
Gotta love the internet armchair lawyers in this thread. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:00:00 -
[467]
Originally by: dexington
The database is the property of iskbank, it's clearly not part of the public domain.
Public domain is a legal term regarding copyright law. Copyright is a civil matter, not legal matter. If iskbank can produce a document showing the content of the database was copyrighted, then they may be able to force evenews to take it down.
But to go after CCP in civil court for using the data, assuming it was properly copyrighted prior to release (which is HIGHLY unlikely) is a stretch.
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WarGod
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:02:00 -
[468]
Thank god my name isnt on this list
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:03:00 -
[469]
All of you arguing over the legality of this or that missed the GM correspondence posted in this thread (and removed) stating that CCP can not accept the database to perform an investigation and urged the player not to continue to perform illegal acts. They covered their ass and washed their hands. Now that the list is posted on the internet for anyone to see, they can absolutely do whatever the **** they want. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:10:00 -
[470]
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 10/03/2011 16:33:43
Originally by: LHA Tarawa Once someone you are in no way affiliated with, has hacked a computer, stolen information, and posted it to a public forum, you may use this now publically available information, as long as you are not breaking some other law, like copyright or national security or banking fraud....
The database contain personal information given to iskbank by it's customers, you can just claim it as public available information when you are in possession of them only because someone hacked the computer system and send you a copy.
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:13:00 -
[471]
Originally by: Malcanis
PS how much did you buy?
Probably similar to what he's already bought in other MMOs... - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:25:00 -
[472]
Edited by: General Mujahideen Husseni on 10/03/2011 17:26:24
Originally by: Malcanis IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright
Your claim is that merely because something is labeled as fictitious by its creator, it cannot be held under copywrite? BRB, going to use licensed characters in my own fictional works and publish them.
Originally by: Malcanis or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
I also agree that it's not entirely compromising when I access a supermarket's database of customers and their information. Identitiy theft? Pffft. Doesn't exist.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:34:00 -
[473]
Originally by: Malcanis
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:35:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Malcanis
PS how much did you buy?
Probably similar to what he's already bought in other MMOs...
LOL, yes.
"If a man makes money successfully by certain means, he will go on making more money by the same means. Human activity is drearily predictable"
-William S. Burroughs
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:37:00 -
[475]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Your claim is that merely because something is labeled as fictitious by its creator, it cannot be held under copywrite?
No. His claim is that since they've sad "that is not our database" they cannot later say "they've copied our database." ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 17:56:00 -
[476]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Edited by: General Mujahideen Husseni on 10/03/2011 17:26:24
Originally by: Malcanis IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright
Your claim is that merely because something is labeled as fictitious by its creator, it cannot be held under copywrite? BRB, going to use licensed characters in my own fictional works and publish them.
Originally by: Malcanis or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
I also agree that it's not entirely compromising when I access a supermarket's database of customers and their information. Identitiy theft? Pffft. Doesn't exist.
How can something be both fictitious and compromising?
And IskBank aren't claiming that they made up this database but that the 'hacker' did. If anyone owns "copyright" to it, it's him, not them.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:01:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Mara Rinn
Originally by: Othran Evidence which is obtained illegally IS valid evidence pretty much everywhere (that has any rule of law) outside the USA. The person/persons who obtained the evidence illegally may face charges/prosecution but that does NOT invalidate the evidence.
What does invalidate the evidence is the lack of evidence trail. If the records aren't kept correctly from the time the evidence is initially found till the time it's presented in court, the evidence is invalid and cannot be submitted as evidence for the case.
It doesn't. The USA has a principle of "fruits of the poisoned tree" whereby any evidence obtained by illegal means is inadmissable - as is ALL further evidence gained as a result of the "tainted evidence".
In most other countries that's not the case. Further evidence gained as a result of illegaly gained evidence is fine. Eg - and this HAS happened recently where I live. Cops boot down a door to search for stolen goods. Its the wrong address but they find a small cannabis grow. Guy gets 2 years in jail. Clearly an "illegal" search but evidence is acceptable as the jury recognise it wasn't fabricated/etc.
Oh and anyone who thinks CCP would ban based solely on that list is delusional. The list is a STARTING POINT, thats all.
For the major buyers on the list it should be utterly trivial for CCP to work out whether its true or not. Dates and ISK amounts are available so if CCP can't even do that.......
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:02:00 -
[478]
Originally by: Malcanis [How can something be both fictitious and compromising?
Pretty easy, there's even legal jargon for it -- the appearance of impropriety. Once fictitious information has been planted concerning someone's behavior, it can be compromising of their image or standing in whatever organization or society would look down on the behavior they engaged in.
Originally by: Malcanis And IskBank aren't claiming that they made up this database but that the 'hacker' did. If anyone owns "copyright" to it, it's him, not them.
Even so, it'd be assumed proprietary material of that website.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:06:00 -
[479]
Edited by: Burnharder on 10/03/2011 18:06:06
Originally by: dexington
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
I very much doubt a database used by someone engaged in criminal activity is covered by copyright law and as it's a database of online virtual characters, the Data Protection act doesn't come into play. There are various whistle-blower laws that take precedence in any case. And it IS criminal activity because I very much doubt the business in question charges VAT or pays state individual or business taxes on earnings.
For the life of me I cannot understand why you'd play a game like Eve and then remove almost all of the sense of achievement buy buying your Isk. I guess these are the same people who use cheat codes in single player games because they might have to actually engage their brain, or put some hours in, to get through a difficult level. But why play Eve and not Mario-Kart in that case?
I don't get it. I never will either.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:08:00 -
[480]
Next profession in EVE : Lawyer Included new skills (Cha/Int) : Lawyer, Penal Law, Common Law, Contract Voiding, EULA Preservation, Money Laundering Formalization... ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best browser MMO of them all |
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:10:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Fulbert Next profession in EVE : Lawyer Included new skills (Cha/Int) : Lawyer, Penal Law, Common Law, Contract Voiding, EULA Preservation, Money Laundering Formalization...
I think some people in this thread have already injected those skills and trained them to level 1, then got distracted and trained something else. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:10:00 -
[482]
Edited by: Tippia on 10/03/2011 18:13:30
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Even so, it'd be assumed proprietary material of that website.
àwhich they've offered everyone (including CCP) along with a "have fun!"
As for the impropriety, that's something the individual "customers" have to go after EN24 about ù IskBank and CCP are not involved in that particular scuffle.
Of course, none of this matters because it's no different than someone putting in a petition and saying "I think character X is RMT:ing" and CCP launching an investigation based on that. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Cory Sopapilla
Minmatar Kiroshi Group
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:12:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
Ah, so I guess all of those lawyers going after mp3 and movie sharers didn't know the law as well as you? I believe you also posted your credit card and contact info on a website called eveonline.com as well. eveonline.com is a public website and you "published" as soon as you hit the submit button.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:16:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Burnharder For the life of me I cannot understand why you'd play a game like Eve and then remove almost all of the sense of achievement buy buying your Isk.
Luckily those people exist. And luckily CCP gave us the PLEX feature.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:19:00 -
[485]
Originally by: dexington
That is the same as saying you can publish eg. music in mp3 form on a public site and then it's no longer anyones property and now part of the public domain, unless you live in china things don't work that way.
music is copyrighted. It is highly unlikely that the content of this database was copyrighted.
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:20:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Tippia As for the impropriety, that's something the individual "customers" have to go after EN24 about ù IskBank and CCP are not involved in that particular scuffle.
I was only giving him an example of when information which is explicitly or implicitly fictitious can remain malicious.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:21:00 -
[487]
I get a kick out of these folks that think whether or not the list was obtained legally has any bearing at all on whether or not CCP can enforce their policy against engaging in RMT on their own computers.
You guys crack me up.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:21:00 -
[488]
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1712207/In-Isk-We-Trust-the-EVE-Online-IskBank-Exposed#comments
ruh-roh...
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Voogru
Gallente Massive Damage
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:22:00 -
[489]
ISK Buyer Tears.
They are delicious!
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Jake Rivers
Caldari Rule of Five Split Infinity.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:22:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/03/2011 15:16:50
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle The second one and perhaps slightly less visual thing is that CCP is left out of the loop on RMT.
5,540 PLEX sitting idly just in this RMT shop's hangars - that's 96,900$ for CCP that they didn't have to provide any service for.
At the very least this RMT shop created enough PLEX demand to fund about one CCP employee all by itself (and create up to 2770 legit ISK buyers).
That is most likely a $96,000 loss for CCP if most of that plex was purchased through stolen credit card numbers, as in most cases of transactions with stolen cards, the monies are reversed as soon as the card is found to be used in fraudulent transactions.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:23:00 -
[491]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni I also agree that it's not entirely compromising when I access a supermarket's database of customers and their information. Identitiy theft? Pffft. Doesn't exist.
Identity theft is a crime whether you stole the information or got it out of public information like property deeds, phone book or other publically available information.
It is that act of identity theft (pretending to be another person) that is the crime, not getting the name and number from a public posting of stolen information.
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:24:00 -
[492]
Edited by: General Mujahideen Husseni on 10/03/2011 18:25:08 ^ I was being sarcastic.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst I get a kick out of these folks that think whether or not the list was obtained legally has any bearing at all on whether or not CCP can enforce their policy against engaging in RMT on their own computers.
You guys crack me up.
Uhhh, because in Western constitutional democracies there are protections against unlawful procurement of evidence i.e. wiretapping or hacking (unlawful access).
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:25:00 -
[493]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Uhhh, because in Western constitutional democracies there are protections against unlawful procurement of evidence i.e. wiretapping or hacking (unlawful access).
àand since this is not a case of unlawful procurement of evidence, CCP can enforce their policy against engaging in RMT just fine. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:27:00 -
[494]
Originally by: Jake Rivers
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein Edited by: Florestan Bronstein on 10/03/2011 15:16:50
Originally by: Hayaku Codolle The second one and perhaps slightly less visual thing is that CCP is left out of the loop on RMT.
5,540 PLEX sitting idly just in this RMT shop's hangars - that's 96,900$ for CCP that they didn't have to provide any service for.
At the very least this RMT shop created enough PLEX demand to fund about one CCP employee all by itself (and create up to 2770 legit ISK buyers).
That is most likely a $96,000 loss for CCP if most of that plex was purchased through stolen credit card numbers, as in most cases of transactions with stolen cards, the monies are reversed as soon as the card is found to be used in fraudulent transactions.
Not necessarily. It depends on how the transactions are handled. Sometimes the financial institutions eat the cost, sometimes the retailers. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:28:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Burnharder I very much doubt a database used by someone engaged in criminal activity is covered by copyright law and as it's a database of online virtual characters, the Data Protection act doesn't come into play. There are various whistle-blower laws that take precedence in any case. And it IS criminal activity because I very much doubt the business in question charges VAT or pays state individual or business taxes on earnings.
The eula gives CCP the right to close accounts the make use of RMT, but that does not make anyone buying isk a criminal and their personal information would still be protected by normal laws. The company not paying taxes would not give CCP any special rights to their customer database.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:29:00 -
[496]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni Edited by: General Mujahideen Husseni on 10/03/2011 18:25:08 ^ I was being sarcastic.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst I get a kick out of these folks that think whether or not the list was obtained legally has any bearing at all on whether or not CCP can enforce their policy against engaging in RMT on their own computers.
You guys crack me up.
Uhhh, because in Western constitutional democracies there are protections against unlawful procurement of evidence i.e. wiretapping or hacking (unlawful access).
Nope, just in one, as it turns out. And in any case those protections only apply to the courts, not to private businesses.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:30:00 -
[497]
People are assuming the information matches and isn't being used for political gain. CCP can verify it but don't assume its that easy to do, considering the massive volume of transactions going on in EVE each day. Generally the specificity of detail argues against it, but the problem with an anonymous source stealing information is that they are an anonymous source stealing it. Whistleblowers are effective when they are inside the organization and can back it up with their position, and not just the hard data.
In other games, I'd probably be dropping these objections, but EVE is infamous for metagaming political warfare, and I have to look at this with more skepticism because of that. Hopefully we can get some follow-up and verification done.
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Washukanni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:30:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
oh dear...
You may wish to do some READING on the subject(it usually helps). Most national legislation and international conventions can be found online, plenty of website and database specific copyright and data protection material.. all in the name of education (and not making an idiot of yourself).
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Grindkore
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:35:00 -
[499]
How can a person spend several thousand real dollars on a internet spaceships game? I mean that would be good amount to to take to Vegas and to have a much more fun for a weekend. I can understand having multiple accounts to multibox and train alts, but buying ISK?
Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:39:00 -
[500]
Originally by: Grindkore Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
It's their money, their account and their choice...
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:42:00 -
[501]
Originally by: Malcanis Nope, just in one, as it turns out. And in any case those protections only apply to the courts, not to private businesses.
I can't think it's really good business practice to make a judgment on third hand knowledge as well, when it involved the punishment of ******s who Pay Money For Internet Spaceships.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:43:00 -
[502]
Massively has now reported on this. Now here comes the outside flames.
Once stuff like this hits the news it becomes big. CCP will be forced to take action.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:45:00 -
[503]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni
Originally by: Malcanis Nope, just in one, as it turns out. And in any case those protections only apply to the courts, not to private businesses.
I can't think it's really good business practice to make a judgment on third hand knowledge as well, when it involved the punishment of ******s who Pay Money For Internet Spaceships.
You're probably right, but that's neither here nor there: it's entirely CCP's decision. As said dozens of times already, CCP are 100% enabled to use the list as the basis for investigations, and no-one will take seriously any attempt to say that they aren't regardless of how much contorted logic, smokescreens and strawmen certain people in this thread attempt to apply.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:52:00 -
[504]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Grindkore Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
It's their money, their account and their choice...
Actually, the account belongs to CCP. You pay for the privilege of being allowed to access the account on their machines and modify the data as you see fit, provided you do so within the terms of the EULA agreement.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 18:58:00 -
[505]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Grindkore Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
It's their money, their account and their choice...
No, it's CCP's intellectual property, including your characters. Read the EULA. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:01:00 -
[506]
Originally by: General Mujahideen Husseni
Originally by: Malcanis Nope, just in one, as it turns out. And in any case those protections only apply to the courts, not to private businesses.
I can't think it's really good business practice to make a judgment on third hand knowledge as well, when it involved the punishment of ******s who Pay Money For Internet Spaceships.
Why do people assume CCP will make judgements based solely on this?! Of course they will investigate said people and if they find out the person has been buiying isk.. banhammer time.
Its not like they go "oh someone claimed.. ok ban" if they did.. we wouldnt have the constant *****ing about RMT and botting.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:10:00 -
[507]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Its not like they go "oh someone claimed.. ok ban" if they did.. we wouldnt have the constant *****ing about RMT and botting.
We'd have goons /petitioning everyone they come across for RMT and botting. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:10:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker Why do people assume CCP will make judgements based solely on this?!
Because that assumption opens a tiny window of hope, where proving the list as inadmissible or illegal to use would mean that their alts are safeà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Borun Tal
Minmatar Space Pods Inc
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:10:00 -
[509]
That's just friggin' sad. Some of you take this GAME way too freakin' seriously...
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:13:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker Why do people assume CCP will make judgements based solely on this?!
Because that assumption opens a tiny window of hope, where proving the list as inadmissible or illegal to use would mean that their alts are safeà
Considering what some people have stated in this thread about supporting RMT, I would venture a guess you hit the nail on the head. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Lynx Australis
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:19:00 -
[511]
Hahahaha.
If you got the money to buy ISK, why don't you buy it legal way instead of RMT? Idiots, enjoy perma bans
Evenews24, keep up the good work!
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:27:00 -
[512]
Originally by: Barakkus We'd have goons /petitioning everyone they come across for RMT and botting.
Pretty much!! and thats a scary thought.
Originally by: Tippia Because that assumption opens a tiny window of hope, where proving the list as inadmissible or illegal to use would mean that their alts are safeà
*chuckles* thats probably true.
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Lynx Australis
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:30:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Callum545 in case you all missed it
KiaDuplex $4,172.74 KiaDuplex $2,615.20
I hate people like this Please CCP do something
LOL'D hard on that
I KNEW IT!
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:34:00 -
[514]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Grindkore Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
It's their money, their account and their choice...
Actually, the account belongs to CCP. You pay for the privilege of being allowed to access the account on their machines and modify the data as you see fit, provided you do so within the terms of the EULA agreement.
Wow you really know what you are talking about, lol
Only an individual, natural person who is an adult or, in the discretion of such an adult, his or her minor child, may establish an Account. You are responsible and liable for all activities conducted through your Account, regardless of who conducts those activities.
Nice selective reading...Read the section titled: "PROPRIETARY RIGHTS" - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:37:00 -
[515]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
No, I don't understand yet but i want to keep arguing like I do so that I don't feel like I'm losing the argument
The two things are not even close. .
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Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:39:00 -
[516]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Malcanis
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
can you give us an example of this in action? .
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Lynx Australis
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:40:00 -
[517]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 09/03/2011 21:08:26
Originally by: Ingvar Angst You're trying too hard. Way too hard. Is your heart pounding harder and harder in your chest with every passing beat? Do you feel the warm breath of CCP on the backs of the necks of the alts that do show up on the list? Oh no... can they trace your IP address through them? All that spent money is about to be vaporized, and you know there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah, they're on to you now. Your days are numbers. All you have will be gone. You will be no more. Tha-thump tha-thump tha-thump... they're coming for you...
Troll. I think that the argument about the list containing credit card numbers is made made up. People who read the EveNews24 article are starting to see what is not there. I went back to EveNews24 and read through the article, but I did not see any mentioning of credit card information.
If they had each player's credit card information, too, then it still would not be proof of a real money transfer, but it can be considered a "grim indicator" and an important link in the evidence chain, because one cannot get such information easily.
Now someone is really, really afraid.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:41:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker Why do people assume CCP will make judgements based solely on this?!
Because that assumption opens a tiny window of hope, where proving the list as inadmissible or illegal to use would mean that their alts are safeà
Best defense is a good offense. The list can't be proven to be accurate/truthful. If CCP acts against the listed people, CCP could be threatened with a class action lawsuit or defamation lawsuit. That lawsuits might be frivolous, but the mere cost of defending against a lawsuit might not be worth the hassle of using the list.
If the "it's not worth the legal costs to use the list" theory is correct, then the people on the list might then have carte blanche to make RMT purchases in the short term. Meaning, if CCP catches them making RMT purchases now, then the listed people can make the claim that CCP targeted them based on a leaked list of dubious validity instead of from the recent RMT purchases, thus scaring off CCP with the thread of expensive court procedures.
disclaimer: IANAL, especially in whatever legal jurisdiction that CCP falls under.
cbb: I can't be bothered to read through all 17 pages for previous posts, so apologies if this post is a dupe.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:41:00 -
[519]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Grindkore Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
It's their money, their account and their choice...
Actually, the account belongs to CCP. You pay for the privilege of being allowed to access the account on their machines and modify the data as you see fit, provided you do so within the terms of the EULA agreement.
Wow you really know what you are talking about, lol
Only an individual, natural person who is an adult or, in the discretion of such an adult, his or her minor child, may establish an Account. You are responsible and liable for all activities conducted through your Account, regardless of who conducts those activities.
"Your" refers to the person establishing the account. The rights to use the account are yours, however the account itself and all data on their servers is the proerlty of CCP. Or let's put it this way... if it's "your" (ownership) account, then you can take it with you when you leave, yes? No. There is no "thing" to own. An account is simply data set up to grant you as an individual access to additional data. The additional data you're allowed to access is restricted by the data in the account.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:41:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Barakkus
Nice selective reading...Read the section titled: "PROPRIETARY RIGHTS"
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:41:00 -
[521]
Edited by: Tippia on 10/03/2011 19:42:13
Originally by: Barakkus Nice selective reading...Read the section titled: "PROPRIETARY RIGHTS"
Allow meà
11. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS
B. Rights to Certain Content
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
Your account is "yours" in the same way as a car you rent is "your rented car".
Originally by: dexington Wow you really know what you are talking about, lol
Actually, he does. Btw, this is why you're not allowed to sell or transfer the account you're using: because it's not your account to sell. This is also why you're not allowed to buy or sell ISK ù because it's not yours. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:44:00 -
[522]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 19:44:43
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Barakkus
Nice selective reading...Read the section titled: "PROPRIETARY RIGHTS"
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
You are still selectively reading.
Quote: A. Ownership of Software, System and Game As between you and CCP, CCP is the sole and exclusive owner of the Software, System, Game and Game Content (as defined below). The Software, System, Game and all Game Content are protected by law governing copyrights, trademarks and other proprietary rights. CCP reserves all rights not expressly granted herein.
The Game is comprised of, without limitation, software code, programs, routines, subroutines, objects, files, data, characters (and items, currency, objects and attributes comprising or associated with a character or an Account), graphics, sound effects, music, animation, video, text, content, layout, design and other information downloaded from and accessible through the System (collectively, the "Game Content"). CCP, its affiliates, licensors and/or suppliers retain all of their right, title and interest (including without limitation all intellectual property rights) in and to the Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and no rights thereto are transferred to you, except for the limited license granted above.
You are an idiot and are making yourself look stupid the more you try to twist things to make yourself look right. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:46:00 -
[523]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker Why do people assume CCP will make judgements based solely on this?!
Because that assumption opens a tiny window of hope, where proving the list as inadmissible or illegal to use would mean that their alts are safeà
Best defense is a good offense. The list can't be proven to be accurate/truthful. If CCP acts against the listed people, CCP could be threatened with a class action lawsuit or defamation lawsuit. That lawsuits might be frivolous, but the mere cost of defending against a lawsuit might not be worth the hassle of using the list.
If the "it's not worth the legal costs to use the list" theory is correct, then the people on the list might then have carte blanche to make RMT purchases in the short term. Meaning, if CCP catches them making RMT purchases now, then the listed people can make the claim that CCP targeted them based on a leaked list of dubious validity instead of from the recent RMT purchases, thus scaring off CCP with the thread of expensive court procedures.
disclaimer: IANAL, especially in whatever legal jurisdiction that CCP falls under.
cbb: I can't be bothered to read through all 17 pages for previous posts, so apologies if this post is a dupe.
People could threaten a lawsuit, but it would go nowhere. The list would simply have been demonstrated to have been used as a flag of which accounts bear further scrutiny. Upon further scrutiny of the data CCP owns, and with the support of the list, the account has been demonstrated to be in violation of the EULA the user agreed upon. Therefore the account was terminated in full compliance of the terms listed in the EULA.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:47:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Malcanis
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
can you give us an example of this in action?
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:51:00 -
[525]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Malcanis
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
can you give us an example of this in action?
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997
Which means absolutely nothing since CCP is not in possession of said database. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:52:00 -
[526]
It is an anonymous source. Nothing more should be needed to be said here. It can be that one RMT organization has hacked another, it could be that an EVE player hacked the site or that it was done by someone completely different. The data can be forged, filtered or simply true.
Just check the list for your name and that you did not receive any ISKs, items or PLEX recently from an unknown source should you be innocent. If you did receive any ISKs, items or PLEX from an unknown source then contact a GM with a petition and have them destroy it. --
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:52:00 -
[527]
Can I have your stuff... you won't do much with them if wallet is 50 trillion on negative side .)
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Eyeama Spy
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:53:00 -
[528]
as the creditcard payment details have been supplied , i hope ccp notifys the relevent tax authoritys , i am sure they want their cut of iskbanks profits
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Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:55:00 -
[529]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Malcanis
IskBank have released a public statement asserting that the database is wholly fictitious. It would be difficult for them to also claim that they owned copyright (an array of information cant be copyrighted, btw, did you know that?) or that the use of it in any way compromised them or their customers.
Whatever other things CCP have to fear, legal action by IskBank is now not amongst them.
PS how much did you buy?
De facto, databases when defended have been covered by copyright law. If the iskbank database is protected by eu law, it's covered by copyright law no matter what the content is.
can you give us an example of this in action?
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997
This is counter to what you've been saying. CCP don't have the DB, per se, the DB was put into the public domain.
How does this relate? .
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General Mujahideen Husseni
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:57:00 -
[530]
Originally by: Whitehound It is an anonymous source. Nothing more should be needed to be said here.
This.
This and lawyering about Internet Space Ships. lol
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 19:57:00 -
[531]
Originally by: dexington
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997
Before you go on saying the database was provided to CCP, you missed the GM correspondence that was posted in this thread, and removed, where a GM told the hacker they could not accept the database as it was obtained through illegal methods. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:00:00 -
[532]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Grindkore Perhaps I just don't take this "GAME" seriously, don't get me wrong I love EVE. But why would you spend that kind of money even if you are wealthy on intangible and worthless game currency?
It's their money, their account and their choice...
Actually, the account belongs to CCP. You pay for the privilege of being allowed to access the account on their machines and modify the data as you see fit, provided you do so within the terms of the EULA agreement.
Wow you really know what you are talking about, lol
Only an individual, natural person who is an adult or, in the discretion of such an adult, his or her minor child, may establish an Account. You are responsible and liable for all activities conducted through your Account, regardless of who conducts those activities.
You can't be that stupid. Here, I'll translate the adultspeak for you: Basically, when you get caught buying isk, you can't use the lame excuse that you walked away from your computer and your roommate, brother, child, whomever must've purchased the isk with your account while you were away. So if you get caught and hopefully banned for purchasing isk outside the EULA, take it like a man.
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:01:00 -
[533]
Ban them all, tbh.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:01:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Eyeama Spy as the creditcard payment details have been supplied , i hope ccp notifys the relevent tax authoritys , i am sure they want their cut of iskbanks profits
Whenever my neighbour smokes pott do I slip an anonymous letter into my local police president's mailbox. He is still smoking pott, but I have slipped the police president over 500 anonymous letters so far. If I keep doing it will they have to respond. I am sure of it. ... Oh, see? There is now a lot of police activity on our street this evening. Looks like they are finally going to arrest him. I feel victorious! Wait a moment, someone is knocking at my door ... --
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:01:00 -
[535]
For goodness sake people, all this bantering about who owns the data and whether it's accurate or not is meaningless.
CCP can use the database as an indicator of which people to look more closely at, and determine their guilt or innocence based *ENTIRELY* on CCPs OWN DATA.
Having a nice short list of a few hundred or thousand people to look at is far easier than combing through several hundred thousand. |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:04:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: dexington
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997
Before you go on saying the database was provided to CCP, you missed the GM correspondence that was posted in this thread, and removed, where a GM told the hacker they could not accept the database as it was obtained through illegal methods.
Actually the way the gm responces went it was pretty clever. At first the gm was like wow nice find send us the goods and we will reward you if it seems legit. Then after getting the goods there is a followup reply about whoops sorry guys this was illegally accuired so no rewards and we can't ermm 'officially' use it but thanks anyways.
Some clever monkeys over there it seems.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:06:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 10/03/2011 19:42:13
Originally by: Barakkus Nice selective reading...Read the section titled: "PROPRIETARY RIGHTS"
Allow meà
11. PROPRIETARY RIGHTS
B. Rights to Certain Content
You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.
Your account is "yours" in the same way as a car you rent is "your rented car".
Originally by: dexington Wow you really know what you are talking about, lol
Actually, he does. Btw, this is why you're not allowed to sell or transfer the account you're using: because it's not your account to sell. This is also why you're not allowed to buy or sell ISK ù because it's not yours.
18 pages and people still can't grasp this concept that they pay ccp for a service that can be taken away from them at any time, ccp own everything and anyone apart from ccp selling isk does so illegally.
doesn't matter if ccp say they didn't use that database or not to ban people because the owners of it were breaking any laws in the first place selling ccps property.
ccp in theory could also easily shut down that isk seller. its been done by other publishers on multiple occasions.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:09:00 -
[538]
Remember, it is CCP that has the copyright to EVE. They grant you the right to download and run the EVE client but ONLY under the terms of the EULA. They allow you to access the system, but ONLY under the terms of the EULA.
Any use of EVE copyrighted materials that violates the EULA is breaking the copyright laws. Any access to EVE servers that violates the EULA is, by definition, illegally accesing their system.
You log into EVE to transfer ISK to someone in exchange for real worl money, you have legally just comitted an illegal access of their system. Legally, this is hacking.
You log into eve to "spend" ISK that was transferred to you in exchange for real world money, you have just illegally accessed CCP's computers and are guilty of hacking.
You use the name ISK or EVE or the name of any object from the game or any other copyrighted materials to make money, you have violated EVE's copyright rights.
Let's assume for a moment that the data is real, and there is some defacto copyright of the data. Let's assume CCP uses the info to look into logs and finds that indeed the player received items as specified and then bans the players.
1) iskbanks's copyright would be void as it is the product of illegal activity (the access of CCP's systems for purposes other than those granted in the EULA and the use of CCP's copyrighted material for purposes other than authorized.)
2) Assume a copyright exists (unlikely) and is not void (highly unlikely). iskbank's copyright does not transfer to the player. CPP would not be violating the rights of the players' by using the materials.
3) If a copyright exists and if it is not void (which it would be), then iskbank MAY have a civil tort against iskbank for using the copyrighted materials to damage iskbank's ability to do business.
But, what is their case? While we were violating copyright laws and illegally accessing CCPs computer systems... dismissed!
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:11:00 -
[539]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler ccp in theory could also easily shut down that isk seller. its been done by other publishers on multiple occasions.
You could in theory kill an entire ant colony squashing them one by one too. Might take a while though. CCP's efforts are best applied by punishing the buyers and figuring out ways to make the game less isk grindy so people feel less need to have to buy isk to compete.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:13:00 -
[540]
Originally by: stoicfaux The list can't be proven to be accurate/truthful.
It doesn't have to be.
The list is just a bunch of names with a "these people are RMT:ing (we think)" note attached. It's no different than me submitting a petition where I say "I think X is RMT:ing". My being able to prove it is entirely irrelevant as far as CCP decision to investigate and then ban X (or not) is concerned.
Quote: If CCP acts against the listed people, CCP could be threatened with a class action lawsuit or defamation lawsuit.
No they couldn't, as CCP has nothing to do with the publication of said list. Someone might be able to go after EN24, though, but that's another thing. CCP investigating people after receiving tips from their players does not really count as "defamation".
Quote: Meaning, if CCP catches them making RMT purchases now, then the listed people can make the claim that CCP targeted them based on a leaked list of dubious validity instead of from the recent RMT purchases, thus scaring off CCP with the thread of expensive court procedures.
àexcept that there is no grounds for a procedure. CCP is well within their rights to nuke any account at any time for any reason. They're particularly within their rights if they investigate an account and come up with proof of wrongdoing.
Again: CCP will not ban people based on the list. They will ban people based on improper behaviour (viz. RMT) once the GM:s have found enough evidence for it while investigating an account. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:13:00 -
[541]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst People could threaten a lawsuit, but it would go nowhere. The list would simply have been demonstrated to have been used as a flag of which accounts bare further scrutiny. Upon further scrutiny of the data CCP owns, and with the support of the list, the account has been demonstrated to be in violation of the EULA the user agreed upon. Therefore the account was terminated in full compliance of the terms listed in the EULA.
I know it would go nowhere. CCP, the plaintiff and the lawyers on both sides would know too.
Lawyers working on a case cost money. How many monthly subscription fees or time card sales does it take to cover a single lawyer's hourly rate, not including expenses incurred?
There's also the problem of politicians and bureaucrats from several different nations. Moldova is trying to join the EU. Someone or some agency could make some major drama out of a case of hacking, privacy rights, free market, and libel/defamation just to make a political point. Drama can be really expensive.
Overtly pursuing the people on the list might not be worth the potential legal costs of dealing with frivolous lawsuits. OTOH, CCP could decide that making a bold statement about RMT in spite of the potential legal costs would be a good business decision and worth the expense.
*shrug*
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:13:00 -
[542]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: dexington
The Copyright and Rights in Databases Regulations 1997
Before you go on saying the database was provided to CCP, you missed the GM correspondence that was posted in this thread, and removed, where a GM told the hacker they could not accept the database as it was obtained through illegal methods.
Actually the way the gm responces went it was pretty clever. At first the gm was like wow nice find send us the goods and we will reward you if it seems legit. Then after getting the goods there is a followup reply about whoops sorry guys this was illegally accuired so no rewards and we can't ermm 'officially' use it but thanks anyways.
Some clever monkeys over there it seems.
While I'd like to think that was the case, I bet it was just a GM thinking "Wow I hit gold!!!" then runs around the office jumping up and down about the whole situation only to be sternly reminded by a senior GM they can't be party to illegal actions - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:15:00 -
[543]
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome For goodness sake people, all this bantering about who owns the data and whether it's accurate or not is meaningless.
CCP can use the database as an indicator of which people to look more closely at, and determine their guilt or innocence based *ENTIRELY* on CCPs OWN DATA.
Having a nice short list of a few hundred or thousand people to look at is far easier than combing through several hundred thousand.
We said it what 50 times now in this thread but the "omg its an anonymous source/its illegal" crowd doesnt listen. To busy doing damage control and hoping to save their accounts. Or at least that sure is what it looks like. Though i did like the weak attempt to link it to **** germany. That was funny. Strawman much people?
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:20:00 -
[544]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Ingvar Angst People could threaten a lawsuit, but it would go nowhere. The list would simply have been demonstrated to have been used as a flag of which accounts bare further scrutiny. Upon further scrutiny of the data CCP owns, and with the support of the list, the account has been demonstrated to be in violation of the EULA the user agreed upon. Therefore the account was terminated in full compliance of the terms listed in the EULA.
I know it would go nowhere. CCP, the plaintiff and the lawyers on both sides would know too.
Lawyers working on a case cost money. How many monthly subscription fees or time card sales does it take to cover a single lawyer's hourly rate, not including expenses incurred?
There's also the problem of politicians and bureaucrats from several different nations. Moldova is trying to join the EU. Someone or some agency could make some major drama out of a case of hacking, privacy rights, free market, and libel/defamation just to make a political point. Drama can be really expensive.
Overtly pursuing the people on the list might not be worth the potential legal costs of dealing with frivolous lawsuits. OTOH, CCP could decide that making a bold statement about RMT in spite of the potential legal costs would be a good business decision and worth the expense.
*shrug*
Anyone filing the lawsuits would be required to file them in Reykjavik, Iceland. They'd have to travel to Iceland to make their case. They know they'd have no case, would lose and be out the expensive amount of money required to travel there in the first place, as well as be required to pay for any and all legal expenses imposed on CCP in the counter-suit.
Yeah, not going to happen.
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Niveon
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:22:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Massively has now reported on this. Now here comes the outside flames.
Once stuff like this hits the news it becomes big. CCP will be forced to take action.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1712207/In-Isk-We-Trust-the-EVE-Online-IskBank-Exposed |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:26:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Niveon
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk Massively has now reported on this. Now here comes the outside flames.
Once stuff like this hits the news it becomes big. CCP will be forced to take action.
http://games.slashdot.org/story/11/03/10/1712207/In-Isk-We-Trust-the-EVE-Online-IskBank-Exposed
ty... front page updated.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:34:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu figuring out ways to make the game less isk grindy so people feel less need to have to buy isk to compete.
You mean... like.... PLEX!
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:34:00 -
[548]
Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Ingvar Angst People could threaten a lawsuit, but it would go nowhere. The list would simply have been demonstrated to have been used as a flag of which accounts bare further scrutiny. Upon further scrutiny of the data CCP owns, and with the support of the list, the account has been demonstrated to be in violation of the EULA the user agreed upon. Therefore the account was terminated in full compliance of the terms listed in the EULA.
I know it would go nowhere. CCP, the plaintiff and the lawyers on both sides would know too.
Lawyers working on a case cost money. How many monthly subscription fees or time card sales does it take to cover a single lawyer's hourly rate, not including expenses incurred?
There's also the problem of politicians and bureaucrats from several different nations. Moldova is trying to join the EU. Someone or some agency could make some major drama out of a case of hacking, privacy rights, free market, and libel/defamation just to make a political point. Drama can be really expensive.
Overtly pursuing the people on the list might not be worth the potential legal costs of dealing with frivolous lawsuits. OTOH, CCP could decide that making a bold statement about RMT in spite of the potential legal costs would be a good business decision and worth the expense.
*shrug*
Reality check. A few sad souls will make threads claiming their attorney said they have a case against CCP but they'll forget all about it if their account(s) are restored. "My mom's lawyer said we can sue you if you don't give me back my stuffz!" and a few sadder souls will threaten to kill themselves and reason their blood will be on CCP's hands if their accounts aren't restored. I've seen it on many game forums over the years. *yawn
The way you worded it though, ooooh scary. Idle threat all the same.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:37:00 -
[549]
Originally by: Rykuss
Reality check. A few sad souls will make threads claiming their attorney said they have a case against CCP but they'll forget all about it if their account(s) are restored. "My mom's lawyer said we can sue you if you don't give me back my stuffz!" and a few sadder souls will threaten to kill themselves and reason their blood will be on CCP's hands if their accounts aren't restored. I've seen it on many game forums over the years. *yawn
The way you worded it though, ooooh scary. Idle threat all the same.
I used to be a SOE forum moderator, generally, people would be told to **** off in a polite way when they started threatening lawsuits on the forums after having their threads deleted. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:39:00 -
[550]
Originally by: Rykuss Reality check. A few sad souls will make threads claiming their attorney said they have a case against CCP but they'll forget all about it if their account(s) are restored. "My mom's lawyer said we can sue you if you don't give me back my stuffz!" and a few sadder souls will threaten to kill themselves and reason their blood will be on CCP's hands if their accounts aren't restored. I've seen it on many game forums over the years. *yawn
The way you worded it though, ooooh scary. Idle threat all the same.
ell oh ell... Rykuss hit it right on the head. My favorite eve mails were from a guy I scammed for 800 mil isk or something. He told me that he bought the money in RL money and that he would sue me for the 80 bucks he spent on it, come find me, and petition CCP because all his friends were GMs and they were going to make my in-game life 'impossible'. I had a good laugh and than made a sandwich. Yum.
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:39:00 -
[551]
Originally by: stoicfaux Overtly pursuing the people on the list might not be worth the potential legal costs
What legal cost?
What would iskbank's case be? While violating copyright laws and illegally accessing CCPs computers we created a database.... dismissed.
What would the player's case be? While violating EULA and therefore illegally accessing CCP's computers.... dismissed.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:41:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Barakkus While I'd like to think that was the case, I bet it was just a GM thinking "Wow I hit gold!!!" then runs around the office jumping up and down about the whole situation only to be sternly reminded by a senior GM they can't be party to illegal actions
If the database is ligit, then it is itself the product of illegal activity... accessing CCPs computer systems in violation of EULA = hacking. Claims to ownership are void if the product itself is the result of illegal activity.
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:43:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Gogela
Originally by: Rykuss Reality check. A few sad souls will make threads claiming their attorney said they have a case against CCP but they'll forget all about it if their account(s) are restored. "My mom's lawyer said we can sue you if you don't give me back my stuffz!" and a few sadder souls will threaten to kill themselves and reason their blood will be on CCP's hands if their accounts aren't restored. I've seen it on many game forums over the years. *yawn
The way you worded it though, ooooh scary. Idle threat all the same.
ell oh ell... Rykuss hit it right on the head. My favorite eve mails were from a guy I scammed for 800 mil isk or something. He told me that he bought the money in RL money and that he would sue me for the 80 bucks he spent on it, come find me, and petition CCP because all his friends were GMs and they were going to make my in-game life 'impossible'. I had a good laugh and than made a sandwich. Yum.
I hope it had bacon on it. You can't have a victory sandwich without bacon.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:43:00 -
[554]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu figuring out ways to make the game less isk grindy so people feel less need to have to buy isk to compete.
You mean... like.... PLEX!
No. I mean like make the grind for isk fun and enjoyable and not the snore fest it currently is. Hire a couple of dedicated mission designers to crank out new missions each month and start an episodic epic mission arc that comes in installments every other month or such that has an ever evolving plotline that can be used to mirror current game events. Make pve fun and interesting again so you don't mind grinding for isk. Then most people won't feel the need to run bots or find some illegal isk seller with a good exchange rate to make the non pve parts of the game doable.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:53:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I mean like make the grind for isk fun and enjoyable and not the snore fest it currently is.
I'm sure the PVPers would disagree that more PVE content is what EVE needs.
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:55:00 -
[556]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I mean like make the grind for isk fun and enjoyable and not the snore fest it currently is.
I'm sure the PVPers would disagree that more PVE content is what EVE needs.
You're completely wrong. The "PvPers" think that EVE desperately needs good, challenging, fun PvE that reasonably emulate PvP conditions
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:56:00 -
[557]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I mean like make the grind for isk fun and enjoyable and not the snore fest it currently is.
I'm sure the PVPers would disagree that more PVE content is what EVE needs.
I'm sure the pvpers who fund their pvp with pve would say you are wrong.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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George Nada
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Posted - 2011.03.10 20:57:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Corozan Aspinall
Originally by: Horizonist /me shakes head in disbelief
Why so pale friend Cicero?
This is just one example of one business. How many are there? 10? 20? 50? Hundreds?
Saddest thing about this is because they've chosen to 'out' the list publicly and not sent it to CCP and asked for comment or clarification or action etc. they've killed the story in one feature. I'd dearly like to have seen this one to the end .. but I doubt we will now.
I just wanted to point out that this isnt exactly true. We sent a copy of the full DB to CCP first, and then about a week later published the story. Plenty of time.
|
stoicfaux
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 20:58:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Anyone filing the lawsuits would be required to file them in Reykjavik, Iceland. They'd have to travel to Iceland to make their case. They know they'd have no case, would lose and be out the expensive amount of money required to travel there in the first place, as well as be required to pay for any and all legal expenses imposed on CCP in the counter-suit.
Yeah, not going to happen.
Don't be naive. That's what is "supposed" to happen. In reality, people can make things happen regardless of the law.
They made $290k in ten months just from one site for one game. (There's a Russian sister site according to the article.) Now if you add in RMT from other games such as EQ, WoW, LotR, etc., then we could be talking about some nice money here. Given the the state of the local economies, nice money could be worth *serious* money, enough to buy off a politician or bureaucrat either in Iceland or in a trade/diplomatic post.
If you want to be a drama queen, do you ever wonder just how far the Russian mafia can reach out and touch someone?
I agree that trying to bring a lawsuit against CCP isn't likely, but never underestimate the power of lawsuits, bribes, influence peddling, political grandstanding, the press, political contacts, and criminal connections when large sums of money are involved.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
|
Fix Lag
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 20:58:00 -
[560]
ITT: confirmation that CCP still doesn't do squat against people using bot programs or buying ISK.
Fix Lag! |
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:01:00 -
[561]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Nadarius Chrome For goodness sake people, all this bantering about who owns the data and whether it's accurate or not is meaningless.
CCP can use the database as an indicator of which people to look more closely at, and determine their guilt or innocence based *ENTIRELY* on CCPs OWN DATA.
Having a nice short list of a few hundred or thousand people to look at is far easier than combing through several hundred thousand.
We said it what 50 times now in this thread but the "omg its an anonymous source/its illegal" crowd doesnt listen. To busy doing damage control and hoping to save their accounts. Or at least that sure is what it looks like. Though i did like the weak attempt to link it to **** germany. That was funny. Strawman much people?
Most of the people here who are discussing and arguing are too smart to buy ISKs at these sites. It is people, who are always sure of what they are doing and ride high on their horses, who are also the ones who fall and fall for RMTs.
Having a nice list with a lot of names on it is easy you think? It is a no brainer? It is as easy as buying ISKs from a cheaper site than CCP? This easy maybe? --
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:04:00 -
[562]
Edited by: Malcanis on 10/03/2011 21:06:52 This is brilliant. So far we've had:
Using this list is fascist thuggery Using this list is copyright infringement Using this list is slander Using this list violates "EU law" Using this list will promote ISK farming Using this list will reduce EVE to 10k active accounts
And now, finally:
Using this list will make the Russian Mafia enemies of CCP.
EDIT: And not to forget friend Whitehound's brand new and especially epic:
The people not on the list are most likely to be the real RMTers!
This list is like the 7 plagues inflicted on Pharoah. DONT USE THE LIST, CCP: LET MY PEOPLE GO! OH GOD MY FIRSTBORN
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:09:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Malcanis Using this list will make the Russian Mafia enemies of CCP.
Of the ones you listed this is the only one that could concievably be construed as an effective threat. Whats that you say? The server farm in london was firebombed by some masked thugs who promptly dissapeared never to be seen again?
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Theodoric Darkwind
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:13:00 -
[564]
The solution to this is easy, CCP needs to enforce its EULA and ban every name on that list and take legal action to shut down the corporate entitiy of iskbank. Legal precedent to sue botters in MMOs was set by blizzard a few years ago when they were able to shut down a company that made botting software.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:13:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Malcanis ...
Your name is on this list. --
|
Linda Flamewalker
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:14:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/03/2011 21:06:52 This is brilliant. So far we've had:
Using this list is fascist thuggery Using this list is copyright infringement Using this list is slander Using this list violates "EU law" Using this list will promote ISK farming Using this list will reduce EVE to 10k active accounts
And now, finally:
Using this list will make the Russian Mafia enemies of CCP.
EDIT: And not to forget friend Whitehound's brand new and especially epic:
The people not on the list are most likely to be the real RMTers!
This list is like the 7 plagues inflicted on Pharoah. DONT USE THE LIST, CCP: LET MY PEOPLE GO! OH GOD MY FIRSTBORN
^^ :) Brilliant summery of the nay sayers arguments. Well done Sir for compiling them all so we can see.
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Rykuss
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:16:00 -
[567]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/03/2011 21:06:52 This is brilliant. So far we've had:
Using this list is fascist thuggery Using this list is copyright infringement Using this list is slander Using this list violates "EU law" Using this list will promote ISK farming Using this list will reduce EVE to 10k active accounts
And now, finally:
Using this list will make the Russian Mafia enemies of CCP.
EDIT: And not to forget friend Whitehound's brand new and especially epic:
The people not on the list are most likely to be the real RMTers!
This list is like the 7 plagues inflicted on Pharoah. DONT USE THE LIST, CCP: LET MY PEOPLE GO! OH GOD MY FIRSTBORN
Who needs reality television with threads like this?
|
Linda Flamewalker
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:17:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis ...
Your name is on this list.
I am sure you can point it out to us then.
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Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:18:00 -
[569]
Originally by: Rykuss Who needs reality television with threads like this?
What makes this far better than 'reality' tv is that the tears here are real.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:21:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis ...
Your name is on this list.
I am sure you can point it out to us then.
I got it from an anonymous source:
Linda Flamewalker, $550 Malcanis, $750
--
|
|
Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:25:00 -
[571]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis ...
Your name is on this list.
I am sure you can point it out to us then.
I got it from an anonymous source:
Linda Flamewalker, $550 Malcanis, $750
pwnt
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
|
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:25:00 -
[572]
...but we can't really blame them. Having red wallet seriously hurts career advancement and may force perfectly healthy spaceship pilot to retire early and become highly respected forum troll.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:26:00 -
[573]
Originally by: stoicfaux nice money could be worth *serious* money, enough to buy off a politician or bureaucrat either in Iceland or in a trade/diplomatic post.
RMT is estimated to be a multi billion dollar industry. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
|
Thanks Much
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:27:00 -
[574]
After reading this whole thread, the only thing I can conclude for certain is that Whitehound must be buying ISK somewhere and is afraid of getting caught.
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:28:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis ...
Your name is on this list.
I am sure you can point it out to us then.
I got it from an anonymous source:
Linda Flamewalker, $550 Malcanis, $750
I'm more than happy for CCP's GMs to trawl through my journal, as well as that of my second account.
In fact I hereby invite and request them to do so, and to publish the results in this thread. I explicitly waive any right to privacy with respect to the result of an investigation into whether I have engaged in any EULA breaking activity.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
George Gallante
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:29:00 -
[576]
nothing will happen
i know, you know it
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:29:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: stoicfaux nice money could be worth *serious* money, enough to buy off a politician or bureaucrat either in Iceland or in a trade/diplomatic post.
RMT is estimated to be a multi billion dollar industry.
Banks trade with real money. They sure are a multi billion dollar industry.
Those who run bots likely need it to pay off their hookers. --
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:31:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Malcanis I'm more than happy for CCP's GMs to trawl through my journal, as well as that of my second account.
In fact I hereby invite and request them to do so, and to publish the results in this thread. I explicitly waive any right to privacy with respect to the result of an investigation into whether I have engaged in any EULA breaking activity.
Your tears are delicious. --
|
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:31:00 -
[579]
Edited by: Barakkus on 10/03/2011 21:31:40
Originally by: Malcanis
Using this list will make the Russian Mafia enemies of CCP.
Vladimir Makarov will not be pleased. CCP might have to contact the 141 for protection. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:34:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis I'm more than happy for CCP's GMs to trawl through my journal, as well as that of my second account.
In fact I hereby invite and request them to do so, and to publish the results in this thread. I explicitly waive any right to privacy with respect to the result of an investigation into whether I have engaged in any EULA breaking activity.
Your tears are delicious.
Not half so delicious as your panicked squirming.
Do you care to make the same request and waiver?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:37:00 -
[581]
Originally by: Malcanis Not half so delicious as your panicked squirming.
Do you care to make the same request and waiver?
It amuses me how easily you trolls can be owned.
And, no, I do not care about making such a request. CCP does not need an invitation to go through my transactions or to do whatever they like.
Your tears are super tasty!! --
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:39:00 -
[582]
So a "NO U" is the best you've got after all this?
Oh dear, poor Whitehound.
Go on, I challenge you to make the same request, along with the waiver which you accidentally forgot to mention on your reply.
Do it. After all, you've got nothing to hide, right?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Remus Andromedus
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:40:00 -
[583]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa First, I am not quite sure what happened.
Second, if it is that iskbank was an isk seller engaged in RMT, how did they get the word out they sold isk?
Very confusing.
You find it with a google search, along with the many others.
This this:
Linkage
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:42:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Malcanis So a "NO U" is the best you've got after all this?
Oh dear, poor Whitehound.
Go on, I challenge you to make the same request, along with the waiver which you accidentally forgot to mention on your reply.
Do it. After all, you've got nothing to hide, right?
More tears. I love it. --
|
Linda Flamewalker
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:42:00 -
[585]
Edited by: Linda Flamewalker on 10/03/2011 21:46:18
Originally by: Whitehound I got it from an anonymous source:
Linda Flamewalker, $550 Malcanis, $750
Pfff, how cheap do you think i am?
Originally by: Malcanis
I'm more than happy for CCP's GMs to trawl through my journal, as well as that of my second account.
In fact I hereby invite and request them to do so, and to publish the results in this thread. I explicitly waive any right to privacy with respect to the result of an investigation into whether I have engaged in any EULA breaking activity.
seconded. Go ahead, please. Ill even invite you to come and check out my computer in person. Hell raid my office computer too. I dont mind.
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EN24 Lapham
Eve News24
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:43:00 -
[586]
Hello, Internet Law Scholars! It's me, Lapham (EveNews24's News Director and the writer for our Iskbank coverage). Given the amount of speculation, I thought it would be a good idea to let you know that, for one of our upcoming stories, I will interview J. Michael Monahan, adjunct professor at the Illinois Institute of Technology's Chicago-Kent College of Law. Mr. Monahan teaches a course devoted to the legal environment of video games. He is also an avid Eve player.
You heard me right. We're interviewing and actual internet spaceship lawyer. Look for the interview on EveNews24 this weekend. And thanks for all of your support.
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:45:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Whitehound I got it from an anonymous source:
Linda Flamewalker, $550 Malcanis, $750
Pfff, how cheap do you think i am?
Actually, I'm wondering where I found $750. First, I'm English. Second, I spend all my pocket money on cognac and deli. I wish I had that much to spend on EVE!
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:46:00 -
[588]
Edited by: Tippia on 10/03/2011 21:46:36
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Malcanis Go on, I challenge you to make the same request, along with the waiver which you accidentally forgot to mention on your reply.
Do it. After all, you've got nothing to hide, right?
Yes.
Well, that explains why you were so afraid of eve-board before everyone explained to you (eight times over) that it wouldn't give away anything compromising.
Originally by: Malcanis Second, I spend all my pocket money on cognac and deli.
Damn this font! At first I though it said "dell", not "deli", and was about to give you an earfulà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Linda Flamewalker
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:48:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Malcanis Actually, I'm wondering where I found $750. First, I'm English. Second, I spend all my pocket money on cognac and deli. I wish I had that much to spend on EVE!
*ROTFLMAO* nice. what brand of cognac btw?
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:49:00 -
[590]
Originally by: Tippia At first I though it said "dell", not "deli", and was about to give you an earfulà
Please. I have some standards. My PC might be 4 years old, but it's home built.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:50:00 -
[591]
Originally by: EN24 Lapham Hello, Internet Law Scholars! It's me, Lapham (EveNews24's News Director and the writer for our Iskbank coverage). Given the amount of speculation, I thought it would be a good idea to let you know that, for one of our upcoming stories, I will interview J. Michael Monahan, adjunct professor at the Illinois Institute of Technology's Chicago-Kent College of Law. Mr. Monahan teaches a course devoted to the legal environment of video games. He is also an avid Eve player.
You heard me right. We're interviewing and actual internet spaceship lawyer. Look for the interview on EveNews24 this weekend. And thanks for all of your support.
Let me know when you interview CCP and get something of value of them for the community to read rather than this sensational smear. It would have been better if this list never had come public but only be passed on to CCP. You have given every guilty person who might be on that list an early warning. Instead, you used it for your own publicity. --
|
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:52:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Malcanis Actually, I'm wondering where I found $750. First, I'm English. Second, I spend all my pocket money on cognac and deli. I wish I had that much to spend on EVE!
*ROTFLMAO* nice. what brand of cognac btw?
The kind you can buy in Sainsburys. I make no claims to be a connoisseur, let alone having the disposable income to be one.... in game or in RL
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:54:00 -
[593]
Originally by: Tippia Well, that explains why you were so afraid of eve-board before everyone explained to you (eight times over) that it wouldn't give away anything compromising.
I was afraid of EVEBoard giving out my information? I am on EVEBoard for a long time now. Where do you just get your infos from? Chribba himself is not on EVEBoard, but that is a different story. --
|
Linda Flamewalker
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:58:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Malcanis
The kind you can buy in Sainsburys. I make no claims to be a connoisseur, let alone having the disposable income to be one.... in game or in RL
fair enough :) more of a whiskey girl myself (glenmorangie mmm *drools*)
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 21:59:00 -
[595]
Edited by: Whitehound on 10/03/2011 22:00:47
Originally by: Malcanis Actually, I'm wondering where I found $750. First, I'm English. ...
Pretending to be innocent? I live in England, too, and unlike you do I buy my game time with CCP. They are charging me in Euros and it goes straight of my Loyds TSB account.
You have been caught and your tears are tastier than ever!!1! --
|
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:03:00 -
[596]
Originally by: Rykuss I hope it had bacon on it. You can't have a victory sandwich without bacon.
Again... I totally agree. ...and yes of course there was bacon on it.
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:03:00 -
[597]
Originally by: Whitehound I was afraid of EVEBoard giving out my information?
Yes.
Quote: Where do you just get your infos from?
From you.
Quote: Pretending to be innocent? [à] You have been caught and your tears are tastier than ever!!1!
Ah, there's the non-sequitur champ we all know. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:03:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
edit again.. if you do come.. can you send steviesg? ^^
This ^^
I want a visit from CCP StevieSG as well. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
|
Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:03:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Cory Sopapilla
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson
Read. this. slowly.
The list has been published on a public website, that means it is now in the public domain. That means it can be used by anybody.
Do. you. understand. yet?
Ah, so I guess all of those lawyers going after mp3 and movie sharers didn't know the law as well as you? I believe you also posted your credit card and contact info on a website called eveonline.com as well. eveonline.com is a public website and you "published" as soon as you hit the submit button.
Another moron, do you things breed in here?
First of all red. this. slowly.
MP3/4/AVI/MPEG4 are generally associated with music/movies. These things are copyrightable. Those copyright laws do NOT APPLY to a list of names. Nowhere on that publicly posted list does it show real names, credit card details or anything else other than the character name and dollar amount spent.
CCP already stated that they are NOT going to be making use of the list that was sent to them which DID contain the above information, but that does not preclude them using the list that was posted on the net.
As for your "you published your cc info on eveonline.com" that is such a ******ed statement than I don't even know where to start. so I'm not going to.
I hope you read. this. slowly.
Originally by: Johnny Dexter bombs everyone to Narnia
|
EN24 Lapham
Eve News24
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:07:00 -
[600]
Originally by: Whitehound
Let me know when you interview CCP and get something of value of them for the community to read rather than this sensational smear. It would have been better if this list never had come public but only be passed on to CCP. You have given every guilty person who might be on that list an early warning. Instead, you used it for your own publicity.
I made sure that CCP received the information well before it was made public. Also, I have made a standing offer to CCP that we will cover anything they have to say on the matter, whether by interview or prepared statement. GM Grimmi's brief statement appears to be all CCP is willing to say at this time. If they change their mind, I can assure you that we'll have their side of story up as soon as humanly possible.
|
|
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:12:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound I was afraid of EVEBoard giving out my information?
Yes.
Quote: Where do you just get your infos from?
From you.
Quote: Pretending to be innocent? [à] You have been caught and your tears are tastier than ever!!1!
Ah, there's the non-sequitur champ we all know.
No. I raised the question to the community, not because it was a question I had for myself. I had already answered the question for myself by signing up on EVEBoard long before then. It was the fact that Chribba himself refused to put his own character on his website and so I asked if this website can actually be trusted. It was meant to get you thinking. Apparently is this thought process still ongoing with you ... --
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:17:00 -
[602]
Originally by: Whitehound No. I raised the question to the community, not because it was a question I had for myself.
Riiightà
àso that's why you didn't accept the community's answer. Wait what?
Quote: It was meant to get you thinking.
No it wasn't, since the answer was obvious.
Weee! 600. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:17:00 -
[603]
Edited by: Whitehound on 10/03/2011 22:17:39
Originally by: EN24 Lapham I made sure that CCP received the information well before it was made public. Also, I have made a standing offer to CCP that we will cover anything they have to say on the matter, whether by interview or prepared statement. GM Grimmi's brief statement appears to be all CCP is willing to say at this time. If they change their mind, I can assure you that we'll have their side of story up as soon as humanly possible.
It needs more for CCP than to receive the list. They also need to process it, should they choose to. So I still do not think that you acted as heroic as you think you did. Next time just pass any information you have on to CCP and ask in return to get some feedback for keeping the list secret. Maybe you then get an interview from CCP as well as some more info from them.
Besides, how many of your ads come from ISK sellers and associated websites? |
Nina Mercedez
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:18:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Thanks Much After reading this whole thread, the only thing I can conclude for certain is that Whitehound must be buying ISK somewhere and is afraid of getting caught.
That appears that to be the case, or a really good troll. Well, if he stops logging in shortly, we'll might be able to hazard a more accurate guess. |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:23:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: EN24 Lapham Hello, Internet Law Scholars! It's me, Lapham (EveNews24's News Director and the writer for our Iskbank coverage). Given the amount of speculation, I thought it would be a good idea to let you know that, for one of our upcoming stories, I will interview J. Michael Monahan, adjunct professor at the Illinois Institute of Technology's Chicago-Kent College of Law. Mr. Monahan teaches a course devoted to the legal environment of video games. He is also an avid Eve player.
You heard me right. We're interviewing and actual internet spaceship lawyer. Look for the interview on EveNews24 this weekend. And thanks for all of your support.
Let me know when you interview CCP and get something of value of them for the community to read rather than this sensational smear. It would have been better if this list never had come public but only be passed on to CCP. You have given every guilty person who might be on that list an early warning. Instead, you used it for your own publicity.
Look at this guy advocating Jackboot tactics! |
Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.03.10 22:25:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
Originally by: Malcanis
The kind you can buy in Sainsburys. I make no claims to be a connoisseur, let alone having the disposable income to be one.... in game or in RL
fair enough :) more of a whiskey girl myself (glenmorangie mmm *drools*)
If you like the sweet, light malts, try Glen Ord. That is delicious. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.10 22:26:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Thanks Much After reading this whole thread, the only thing I can conclude for certain is that Whitehound must be buying ISK somewhere and is afraid of getting caught.
That appears that to be the case, or a really good troll. Well, if he stops logging in shortly, we'll might be able to hazard a more accurate guess.
No, I am actually applying for a job with CCP. If you then see me disappear then it is because your worst nightmare has become true and because I will be known as CCP Buttkicker. |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.10 22:46:00 -
[608]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Thanks Much After reading this whole thread, the only thing I can conclude for certain is that Whitehound must be buying ISK somewhere and is afraid of getting caught.
That appears that to be the case, or a really good troll. Well, if he stops logging in shortly, we'll might be able to hazard a more accurate guess.
No, I am actually applying for a job with CCP. If you then see me disappear then it is because your worst nightmare has become true and because I will be known as CCP Buttkicker.
All CCP need to do is read your posts, see what a stirrer of fecal matter you are and they will file your application in the trash. Where it would clearly belong.
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.10 22:51:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys All CCP need to do is read your posts, see what a stirrer of fecal matter you are and they will file your application in the trash. Where it would clearly belong.
I think they once mentioned that they have no one on staff that has done the whole isk/gold buying deal. So that would be a plus for him i guess :)
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.10 22:54:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys All CCP need to do is read your posts, see what a stirrer of fecal matter you are and they will file your application in the trash. Where it would clearly belong.
Firstly, you did not read my posts. And secondly, all you want to see is a large number of players disappear. So start sweeping at your own door. --
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Reyold Bengali
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.10 23:53:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: knobber Jobbler ccp in theory could also easily shut down that isk seller. its been done by other publishers on multiple occasions.
You could in theory kill an entire ant colony squashing them one by one too. Might take a while though. CCP's efforts are best applied by punishing the buyers and figuring out ways to make the game less isk grindy so people feel less need to have to buy isk to compete.
Ant colonies are easy to eradicate. Pour a couple of liters of gasoline on them, wait half an hour for it to soak in, then light it up. Works every time.
Isk sellers, on the other hand...
Ah hell, same trick would work. Wouldn't be particularly humane, but it'd work. ------- Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience. |
riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.11 00:25:00 -
[612]
Edited by: riverini on 11/03/2011 00:28:55
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 10/03/2011 22:17:39
Originally by: EN24 Lapham I made sure that CCP received the information well before it was made public. Also, I have made a standing offer to CCP that we will cover anything they have to say on the matter, whether by interview or prepared statement. GM Grimmi's brief statement appears to be all CCP is willing to say at this time. If they change their mind, I can assure you that we'll have their side of story up as soon as humanly possible.
It needs more for CCP than to receive the list. They also need to process it, should they choose to. So I still do not think that you acted as heroic as you think you did. Next time just pass any information you have on to CCP and ask in return to get some feedback for keeping the list secret. Maybe you then get an interview from CCP as well as some more info from them.
Besides, how many of your ads come from ISK sellers and associated websites?
My advertisers come from legitimate isk generating ventures, the somer.Blink issue is an isolated one, albeit very high profile but as far as i concern they weren't aware of the issue, and honestly I believe them, what they gonna do, put a cap on their customers? Chribba was involved in this, is he an "isk seller associate too"
CCP pay attention, this guy here is asking for a job on you guys, notice how quickly he delivers judgements.
We gave the info to CCP and asked for an estimated time of response, CCP responded that's their policy not to give feedback, so we proceeded, am really sorry if you got a sting on this (oh no, you never bought a single isk! right?), but going against the EULA isn't going to take you anywhere (CCP take notice of this too).
So, have a good day "mr craigslist" and stop white-knighting CCP, that's both disgusting and counter-producing for you job seeking crusade, clean up those lips, man up and start showing your worth, that way a decent company might notice you.
Berlin Love. R
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Ejit
Amarr STD contractors
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Posted - 2011.03.11 01:25:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Whitehound because I will be known as CCP Buttkicker.
Sorry for my Dyslexia, but don't you mean CCP Buttlicker
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente Sigma Special Tactics Group Fleet Coordination Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.11 02:26:00 -
[614]
It always felt like those corps holding ground in NPC space were acting like they were losing money whenever I popped out of a worm hole.
They didn't act like they were actually playing a game.
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Self Preservation Society the 2nd Dead Terrorists
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Posted - 2011.03.11 02:36:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker
edit again.. if you do come.. can you send steviesg? ^^
This ^^
I want a visit from CCP StevieSG as well.
Hell, I'll go to her and take my computer with me. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 04:23:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 10/03/2011 23:04:58
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys All CCP need to do is read your posts, see what a stirrer of fecal matter you are and they will file your application in the trash. Where it would clearly belong.
Hater. Firstly, you did not read my posts. And secondly, all you want to see is a large number of players disappear. So start sweeping at your own door.
Hater of what or whom exactly? I have read all 21 pages of this thread, each and every post, so there you go being wrong. Again. How you know what it is that I want with regard to anything at all is a mystery and lastly, why would I need to begin sweeping at my own door? Have you been defecating on my doorstep inbetween your fecal filled rantings in here?
Your already sad posts have degenerated into a cavalcade of "I am better than you and don't need to back-up what I'm saying" and "omg tearz r make me leet". This is a somewhat pathetic turn in your already seemingly pathetic life on the EVE forums. Might I suggest you seek therapy, and possibly stop purchasing ISK from RMT websites based in eastern European countries. Then you won't feel so cornered when the next purge begins.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 04:46:00 -
[617]
All this thread needs now are some fist pumps and spray on tan to achieve epic status.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.11 05:05:00 -
[618]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu All this thread needs now are some fist pumps and spray on tan to achieve epic status.
Obsidian Delivers
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 08:55:00 -
[619]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 09:04:42 Lynch mob tears are best tears.
I wonder, what kind of a role at CCP should I apply for?
I am thinking of the role of a Public Relations Manager. I can represent the nature of EVE - whenever people have to talk to me will they annoyed, upset and in tears. --
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5econdary Target
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.11 09:47:00 -
[620]
If we could remove CCP Buttlicker ( Whitehound ) and Malcanis form this thread we still would be on 3rd page
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.11 10:17:00 -
[621]
Ok... now that we we have proven (as pointed by Malcanis), that...
...using this list is fascist thuggery ...using this list is copyright infringement ...using this list is slander ...using this list violates "EU law" ...using this list will promote ISK farming ...using this list will reduce EVE to 10k active accounts ...using this list will make the Russian Mafia enemies of CCP and that the people not on the list are most likely to be the real RMTers!
...not forgetting that every1 want a visit from CCP StevieSG as well...
...and that Whitehound is trying to get Job from CCP which will include violence like kicking, tenderness like licking ...and a butt - which is apparently related to both activities somehow.
We have also seen 20 pages of internet lawyer comedy together with some tasty tears and horrible trolls.
However... I can not put this to words any better than the guy who posted this comment to mmorpg site: link to mmorpg article
10/10 points from that one.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.11 10:40:00 -
[622]
Confirming that Icarantus has not won a bling or single ISK (thus not played?) at Somer since this aired... Has EN24 perhaps helped release him from his expensive addiction?
-G
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.11 11:18:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Confirming that Icarantus has not won a bling or single ISK (thus not played?) at Somer since this aired... Has EN24 perhaps helped release him from his expensive addiction?
-G
lol, that's funny. :)
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GizzyBoy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 12:09:00 -
[624]
if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them, and WOW, just WOW, internet space ships are serious business,
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 12:42:00 -
[625]
Originally by: GizzyBoy if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them, and WOW, just WOW, internet space ships are serious business,
The fact that people STILL don't get this astounds me. CCP DO NOT DECIDE THE ISK VALUE OF A PLEX. Read that bit reaaaalllllly slowly for god sake, and maybe it will sink in.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:07:00 -
[626]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 13:13:41
Originally by: riverini My advertisers come from legitimate isk generating ventures, the somer.Blink issue is an isolated one, albeit very high profile but as far as i concern they weren't aware of the issue, and honestly I believe them, what they gonna do, put a cap on their customers? Chribba was involved in this, is he an "isk seller associate too"
Dear Riverini,
I know you are running EveNews24 and that you have a lot of believe (in anonymous sources and all your advertisement clients). So I hope you can believe this, too:
I will not buy any ISKs or PLEX. Not from any of your advertisers or whatever source. I will not click on any of your ads or believe any of your stories to be true. You run a legit business, but you honestly do not give a crap about RMTs. I have seen you write for both sides and you use material from any source you can get to make players come to your web site and to have them read your stories. All it ever takes is just one bad advertiser, and who knows how many you have actually missed, to get players into buying ISKs online from bad sources.
So be realistic, you are only a tool!
PS: And I am not applying for a job at CCP. I am only being mean and evil. --
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Florestan Bronstein
Amarr Taishi Combine
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:10:00 -
[627]
Originally by: GizzyBoy if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them,
because CCP has no way whatsoever to create buy or sell orders for PLEX, amirite?
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:16:00 -
[628]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: GizzyBoy if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them, and WOW, just WOW, internet space ships are serious business,
The fact that people STILL don't get this astounds me. CCP DO NOT DECIDE THE ISK VALUE OF A PLEX. Read that bit reaaaalllllly slowly for god sake, and maybe it will sink in.
When CCP controls the $ value of a plex they also do have some control of the isk value, eg. if they changed the price to 5$ the isk value would also be lower. But with plex being closely linked to subscription fees they can't really change the price.
The more money you are willing to spend the more tempting it's going to be to buy it from an illegal source, where the isk/dollar price is lower and where you can get better offers the more you spend.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:22:00 -
[629]
Originally by: Florestan Bronstein
Originally by: GizzyBoy if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them,
because CCP has no way whatsoever to create buy or sell orders for PLEX, amirite?
If CCP started making lower priced plex sell orders, would that not just tempt more people to use RMT?
The plex you buy from CCP would be worth less, and the isk you buy from illegal RMT sites would give you cheaper game time then CCP offers.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:30:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 13:13:41
Originally by: riverini My advertisers come from legitimate isk generating ventures, the somer.Blink issue is an isolated one, albeit very high profile but as far as i concern they weren't aware of the issue, and honestly I believe them, what they gonna do, put a cap on their customers? Chribba was involved in this, is he an "isk seller associate too"
Dear Riverini,
I know you are running EveNews24 and that you have a lot of believe (in anonymous sources and all your advertisement clients). So I hope you can believe this, too:
I will not buy any ISKs or PLEX. Not from any of your advertisers or whatever source. I will not click on any of your ads or believe any of your stories to be true. You run a legit business, but you honestly do not give a crap about RMTs. I have seen you write for both sides and you use material from any source you can get to make players come to your web site and to have them read your stories. All it ever takes is just one bad advertiser, and who knows how many you have actually missed, to get players into buying ISKs online from bad sources.
So be realistic, you are only a tool!
PS: And I am not applying for a job at CCP. I am only being mean and evil.
isn't it the job of a news source to tell both sides of a story? that is how credible news services work isn't it? or are you saying fox news would be a good example of a credible news outlet?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:41:00 -
[631]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 13:43:57
Originally by: knobber Jobbler isn't it the job of a news source to tell both sides of a story? that is how credible news services work isn't it? or are you saying fox news would be a good example of a credible news outlet?
No, not always. Only when there is doubt over who is wrong and who is right does one tell both sides.
You then do not interview murderers to have them tell their side of the story.
EveNews24 however did interview RMTs and wrote all about the details of their activities, how they avoid detection by CCP, how they run their bots, what a bot looks like, etc.. It was not a story about the other side being mistreated or misunderstood, it was a confession.
Riverini is a fool. --
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:53:00 -
[632]
It's kind of curious to see how hard Whitehound is trying to change the subject of this thread from that in the OP, turning it to a flame war that will lock the thread. It's even more curious to see people falling for it.
Now what I find interesting is that a significant amount of information in that database, even though it's an iskbank database, is actually CCP's intellectual property. Their property was being held by an external entity, and the returning of that property does indeed give them the right to use that information to seek out any additional damages they may have suffered.
They may have said (and may even think) that they can't use that data, but they can and would easily win an argument to that effect in court.
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GizzyBoy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:57:00 -
[633]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: GizzyBoy if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them, and WOW, just WOW, internet space ships are serious business,
The fact that people STILL don't get this astounds me. CCP DO NOT DECIDE THE ISK VALUE OF A PLEX. Read that bit reaaaalllllly slowly for god sake, and maybe it will sink in.
HEllo I do get this, let me rephrase ccp starts RMT legit, it sells bs for $10usd rmt .ru guy goes ok, bs on my site now $9.89usd be it plex or convert $ to isk or vice versa. rmt will undercut official sources every time.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.11 13:59:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst It's kind of curious to see how hard Whitehound is trying to change the subject of this thread from that in the OP, turning it to a flame war that will lock the thread. It's even more curious to see people falling for it.
If they gave us a block feature, with one click we could be done with the trolling.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 14:00:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst They may have said (and may even think) that they can't use that data, but they can and would easily win an argument to that effect in court.
Who cares about it though? It is not about getting a fish, but about learning how to fish.
CCP should be telling us if this list is true or false, and not some anonymous source telling CCP who the cheaters are.
Maybe once you stop focusing on me you might be able to actually understand what I am saying here. --
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 14:01:00 -
[636]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler isn't it the job of a news source to tell both sides of a story? that is how credible news services work isn't it? or are you saying fox news would be a good example of a credible news outlet?
Objectivity, impartiality, fairness are parts of ethics and standards of journalism, but it does seem a little dodgy when the person telling then story in some way is financially involved. It's a lot harder to judge the credibility when you can't be 100% sure about the motive.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 14:03:00 -
[637]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Ingvar Angst They may have said (and may even think) that they can't use that data, but they can and would easily win an argument to that effect in court.
Who cares about it though? It is not about getting a fish, but about learning how to fish.
CCP should be telling us if this list is true or false, and not some anonymous source telling CCP who the cheaters are.
Maybe once you stop focusing on me you might be able to actually understand what I am saying here.
They don't need to tell anyone ****. They at least follow their own privacy policy instead of deciding "well you broke the rules so we don't have to uphold our end of the bargain anymore either". CCP does not, and should not confirm or deny the legitimacy of that list. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 14:09:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Barakkus They don't need to tell anyone ****.
I wrote that they should, not shall tell us. The point still is that nobody but CCP should tell people who is a cheater and who is not. Not that they have to or shall tell us. --
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riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.11 14:55:00 -
[639]
Edited by: riverini on 11/03/2011 14:56:49
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 13:35:21
Originally by: riverini My advertisers come from legitimate isk generating ventures, the somer.Blink issue is an isolated one, albeit very high profile but as far as i concern they weren't aware of the issue, and honestly I believe them, what they gonna do, put a cap on their customers? Chribba was involved in this, is he an "isk seller associate too"
Dear Riverini,
I know you are running EveNews24 and that you have a lot of believe (in anonymous sources and all your advertisement clients). So I hope you can believe this, too:
I will not buy any ISKs or PLEX. Not from any of your advertisers or whatever source. I will not click on any of your ads or believe any of your stories to be true. You run a legit business, but you honestly do not give a crap about RMTs. I have seen you write for both sides and you use material from any source you can get to make players come to your web site, to have them read your stories and get some clicks on your ads. All it ever takes is just one bad advertiser, and who knows how many you have actually missed, to get players into buying ISKs online from bad sources.
So be realistic, you are only a tool!
PS: And I am not applying for a job at CCP. I am only being mean and evil.
Cool story.. bro..
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 14:20:45
Originally by: Barakkus They don't need to tell anyone ****.
I wrote that they should, not shall tell us. The point still is that nobody but CCP should tell people who is a cheater and who is not. Not that they have to or shall tell us.
Ideally do I agree with you, but in this case perhaps CCP shall tell us if the list is true or not (now that you have mentioned it). Only to take some wind out of EveNews24's business as they are more of a parasite than a help in the fight against RMTs. RMTs use sites like those who now all run this story and to find their customers and by placing ads.
You got so ****ing busted... i can tell :)
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RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.11 14:57:00 -
[640]
Originally by: Whitehound
CCP should be telling us if this list is true or false, and not some anonymous source telling CCP who the cheaters are.
no they should not - everyone is free to add those people in the list to their buddies to see if they log in , CCP should not reveal how they deal with botters and RMT they may say stuff to the CSM and or the fan fest - but they don't need to jump down this thread and answer all questions.
I think you can really be sure that they are looking though this thread and others .
--
Join BIG
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:06:00 -
[641]
Originally by: riverini You got so ****ing busted... i can tell :)
You cannot tell **** from jack, riverini. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:09:00 -
[642]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Originally by: GizzyBoy if ccp droppped plex price, rmt would just .1 isk war them, and WOW, just WOW, internet space ships are serious business,
The fact that people STILL don't get this astounds me. CCP DO NOT DECIDE THE ISK VALUE OF A PLEX. Read that bit reaaaalllllly slowly for god sake, and maybe it will sink in.
When CCP controls the $ value of a plex they also do have some control of the isk value, eg. if they changed the price to 5$ the isk value would also be lower. But with plex being closely linked to subscription fees they can't really change the price.
The more money you are willing to spend the more tempting it's going to be to buy it from an illegal source, where the isk/dollar price is lower and where you can get better offers the more you spend.
There IS no dollar value (or any other real word currency) value to a PLEX. A PLEX is created from a GTC which a player can either use to add gametime to his/her account, or convert into 2 PLEX for sale INGAME. CCP has zero control over PLEX prices, they are entirely set by the players.
This is one of the major holds that the RMT business has over players with regards to the ISK/real world currency conversion rates. RMT companies buy up massive stocks of PLEX using ISK made by bots, some of those PLEX are used to keep the botting accounts going while the rest are stockpiled. This stockpiling has the effect of driving up PLEX prices.
At this point the desperate idiots turn to the RMT sites who offer PLEX or ISK at "much more reasonable rates" though they are in fact the rates that they would be normally, had the RMT sites not artificially inflated them. The idiots think they are getting a good deal, when all that is happening is that they are paying the normal rate, but paying out to a bunch of criminals instead of the company responsible for running the game in the first place.
So to conclude, eradicating these RMT scumbags would bring PLEX prices back within "normal ranges" ISK/real world currency conversion rates would settle back down to normal levels and WE the players ALL benefit. Even those morons who think RMT is ok will benefit because they really won't notice much of a change in price, and they will no longer have to cower in a corner when the banhammer starts to fall.
The only ones who will lose out are the ones who have no interest in us as people or players, this game, CCP or our community. And quite frankly I don't give a flying fornication about them.
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Doddy
Excidium.
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:11:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Llyandrian
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Miners Strike
Originally by: Whitehound Point out their wrong and you get onto their wishlist, too. Bloody, undereducated mob.
They're. And uneducated.
Seriously though, u mad?
Undereducated is legit btw. I think it's a brit thing...
No we British say ignorant.
Uneductaed and undereducated mean different things, as in no education and little education.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:17:00 -
[644]
Originally by: RaTTuS no they should not - everyone is free to add those people in the list to their buddies to see if they log in
I think they should and only to discredit EveNews24. You did not read the article about RMTs and the ISK bots on EveNews24, how RMTs use the bots to make money and to feed their families. It made me wish I had a bot, too! --
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Raid'En
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:21:00 -
[645]
just read the last article and it's really ridiculous seeing price offered by the illegal ways were almsot the same as legal ccp gtc option o_O i always though illegal isk were way cheaper, and it's not even the case, these cheaters don't even have that as excuse o_O ---------------- ** Wormhole Trading ** |
Aeronwen Carys
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 15:34:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 14:20:45
Originally by: Barakkus They don't need to tell anyone ****.
I wrote that they should, not shall tell us. The point still is that nobody but CCP should tell people who is a cheater and who is not. Not that they have to or shall tell us.
So you think that they should and shouldn't tell us? Make your mind up dear boy.
Originally by: Whitehound
Ideally do I agree with you, but in this case perhaps CCP shall tell us if the list is true or not (now that you have mentioned it).
Ok, so you agree with Barakkus that they shouldn't have to say anything, but also that they should have to say something?
Originally by: Whitehound
Only to take some wind out of EveNews24's business as they are more of a parasite than a help in the fight against RMTs.
Does anyone else notice a pattern emerging?
Originally by: Whitehound
RMTs use sites like those who now all run this story and to find their customers and by placing ads.
How about now?
I give your effort to derail and obfuscate the original intent of the thread a 0/10. It shows no originality, no thought and no craftsmanship. It is a poor and sad attempt to either defend RMT by attacking its detractors, or an even poorer attempt to bolster your flagging sense of selfworth after purchasing ISK via an alt.
You move from target to target doing your best to deflect attention away from earlier comments about your possible involvement in RMT, which you failed to discuss in any way, starting by attacking Malcanis, then moving on to Tippia, then I believe I came under attack too and now it seems it is Riverini's turn.
Every post of yours has also been in part, a pathetic attempt to persuade people that this subject, the news reports, the list and RMT in general is an issue that can't be dealt with ever and should be ignored/left alone.
You should be thinking carefully about your future in this game young man, I don't forsee it lasting very long at the rate you are going.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:34:00 -
[647]
Outstanding - the new revised list is expanded and sorted.
Epic
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:37:00 -
[648]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 15:19:14
Originally by: RaTTuS no they should not - everyone is free to add those people in the list to their buddies to see if they log in
I think they shall and only to discredit EveNews24. You did not read the article about RMTs and the ISK bots on EveNews24, how RMTs use the bots to make money and to feed their families. It made me wish I had a bot, too!
Watch out RaTTuS, looks like Whitehound has been hiding in your closet watching your surfing habits. He knows what you have and haven't read
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riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:37:00 -
[649]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 15:19:14
Originally by: RaTTuS no they should not - everyone is free to add those people in the list to their buddies to see if they log in
I think they shall and only to discredit EveNews24. You did not read the article about RMTs and the ISK bots on EveNews24, how RMTs use the bots to make money and to feed their families. It made me wish I had a bot, too!
You are what some call a "concern troll" (google it),
To the others we running another article, written by the same guys from the "Rise of the Isk Printing Machine" one, it goes among the lines of "what are the Chinese macroers doing now-days", having read the draft, it is quite revealing i can assure.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:39:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Othran Outstanding - the new revised list is expanded and sorted.
Epic
Yeah and RMT customers are being banned... this is more and more interesting. ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best browser MMO of them all |
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:43:00 -
[651]
Whitehound:
Linkage
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:43:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Fulbert
Originally by: Othran Outstanding - the new revised list is expanded and sorted.
Epic
Yeah and RMT customers are being banned... this is more and more interesting.
\o/ How do you know?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:51:00 -
[653]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 15:51:45
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Ok, so you agree with Barakkus that they shouldn't have to say anything, but also that they should have to say something?
No. I agree that there is no duty or obligation on CCP's side to do so. All I am saying is that if anyone should say who the cheaters are then it is CCP and no one else.
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Does anyone else notice a pattern emerging?
You mean that you cannot read and only read what your head, in all your anger and frustration, tells you?
@riverini: You are what people call an attention *****. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:52:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Joe Skellington Whitehound:
Linkage
Im petitioning CCP to change Whitehounds name to Sockpuppet.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:52:00 -
[655]
Edited by: dexington on 11/03/2011 15:55:41
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys There IS no dollar value (or any other real word currency) value to a PLEX. A PLEX is created from a GTC which a player can either use to add gametime to his/her account, or convert into 2 PLEX for sale INGAME. CCP has zero control over PLEX prices, they are entirely set by the players.
How can you say that plex has no real world value, when you at the same time say they cost around 17.50$ to buy or half a GTC? It's a one way transaction, but you are still able to use the plex to claim 20$ worth of game time.
If the in-game market value of the plex is eg. 350M, it's pretty easy to see that the isk/dollar conversion using plex is somewhere around 20M pr dollar using two plex from a GTC.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 15:56:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
stuff
Y'all need to realize, Whitehound absolutely sucks at expressing himself on the intert00bz. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:01:00 -
[657]
Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 11/03/2011 16:04:24
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 11/03/2011 15:55:41
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys There IS no dollar value (or any other real word currency) value to a PLEX. A PLEX is created from a GTC which a player can either use to add gametime to his/her account, or convert into 2 PLEX for sale INGAME. CCP has zero control over PLEX prices, they are entirely set by the players.
How can you say that plex has no real world value, when you at the same time say they cost around 17.50$ to buy or half a GTC? It's a one way transaction, but you are still able to use the plex to claim 20$ worth of game time.
If the in-game market value of the plex is eg. 350M, it's pretty easy to see that the isk/dollar conversion using plex is somewhere around 20M pr dollar using two plex from a GTC.
You can't sell a PLEX for real life cash, thats why I say it has no cash value. And since the price of a PLEX in game is controlled (supposedly) by the players, it is US that determines the ISK/dollar ratio, or at least it would be if RMT sites didnt keep stockpiling them and driving up the cost.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:03:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Barakkus Y'all need to realize, Whitehound absolutely sucks at expressing himself on the intert00bz.
F'ck me, is it only me again??? --
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:04:00 -
[659]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Fulbert Yeah and RMT customers are being banned... this is more and more interesting.
\o/ How do you know?
Specified in the new EN24 article. Unconfirmed, of course (like everything painful in that game). ____________________________________ Fulbert Industrialist - Casual Trader EVE Online, the best browser MMO of them all |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:24:00 -
[660]
Originally by: Fulbert Specified in the new EN24 article. Unconfirmed, of course (like everything painful in that game).
They are being banned every day. So it is easy to say RMT customers are being banned. It is not exactly a lie, it is unconfirmed and just a lot of BS.
It does not mean that everyone on the list is getting banned or that EveNews24 now gets lists from CCP for who is being banned. Some player's subscription may run out and whose name is on this list, but EveNews24 will sell it to you as a ban, because this is what you want to believe the most.
It is all part of EveNews24's press machine in order to ride the attention wave they are receiving until it gets boring or some new sensation can be found and exploited. They do not mean to fight RMTs, they use them to make press. The more the better for them. --
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:28:00 -
[661]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Fulbert Specified in the new EN24 article. Unconfirmed, of course (like everything painful in that game).
They are being banned every day. So it is easy to say RMT customers are being banned. It is not exactly a lie, it is unconfirmed and just a lot of BS.
It does not mean that everyone on the list is getting banned or that EveNews24 now gets lists from CCP for who is being banned. Some player's subscription may run out and whose name is on this list, but EveNews24 will sell it to you as a ban, because this is what you want to believe the most.
It is all part of EveNews24's press machine in order to ride the attention wave they are receiving until it gets boring or some new sensation can be found and exploited. They do not mean to fight RMTs, they use them to make press. The more the better for them.
How much the RMT wing is paying to you from this propaganda?
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:35:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow How much the RMT wing is paying to you from this propaganda?
You mean if I am getting paid by RMTs for making propaganda? I am not making propaganda for RMTs. I am telling apart the truth from the nonsense printed on a parasitic website. --
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:48:00 -
[663]
Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 11/03/2011 16:48:16
Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems.
But on the page with the iskbank story..
Almost makes me wonder if they are going all out on this story to quell any competition for selling isk. And yes selling gtc is the same as selling isk. You just have to go through a few more steps to convert it is all.
So how about publishing your gtc purchaser list then evenews24 so we can see how much rl money players are spending on gtc to convert to isk.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 16:53:00 -
[664]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 11/03/2011 16:48:16
Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems.
But on the page with the iskbank story..
Almost makes me wonder if they are going all out on this story to quell any competition for selling isk. And yes selling gtc is the same as selling isk. You just have to go through a few more steps to convert it is all.
So how about publishing your gtc purchaser list then evenews24 so we can see how much rl money players are spending on gtc to convert to isk.
+10 to you sir. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:00:00 -
[665]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 16:59:49 Someone sent me a mail in-game. It was rather unfriendly and so it went straight into a petition. Seems people are getting angry for not getting their lynch mob. --
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Angst IronShard
Minmatar Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:02:00 -
[666]
Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game.
. ____________________________________________ Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better. |
Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:16:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 16:59:49 Someone sent me a mail in-game. It was rather unfriendly and so it went straight into a petition.
lol
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:20:00 -
[668]
Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game.
Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk?
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:25:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol
I do not accept crap.
If you got to say something then say it, use the forum. If you think you can hide behind an alt and send me mail with stuff in it you know you are not allowed to post on the forum then know that it goes straight to CCP. --
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:28:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game.
Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk?
There is, on the RMT side of things, many of those companies will readily sell your credit card number or use it themselves for nefarious purposes. On the legit side of things, it enables players to avoid paying the subscription fees if they have the ability to generate large amounts of isk on their own. While some people that fund their playtime with isk use bots, a lot of them don't. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:31:00 -
[671]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol
I do not accept crap.
If you got to say something then say it, use the forum. If you think you can hide behind an alt and send me mail with stuff in it you know you are not allowed to post on the forum then know that it goes straight to CCP.
lol
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Xavier Isaacson
Minmatar Surface Detail
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:34:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol
I do not accept crap.
If you got to say something then say it, use the forum. If you think you can hide behind an alt and send me mail with stuff in it you know you are not allowed to post on the forum then know that it goes straight to CCP.
lol
Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
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Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 17:35:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game.
Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk?
There is, on the RMT side of things, many of those companies will readily sell your credit card number or use it themselves for nefarious purposes. On the legit side of things, it enables players to avoid paying the subscription fees if they have the ability to generate large amounts of isk on their own. While some people that fund their playtime with isk use bots, a lot of them don't.
Oh I totally realise that. I'm just amused at the outrage when this is legally done on a daily basis with plex is all. I mean I didn't realise so many people cared so deeply about ccp's profitability that they would get all upset when some outside company gets the money for the isk instead of ccp.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 17:35:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems.
I have been thinking the same thing, sure players buying isk is part of the problem, but the people supplying the isk and the people running the RMT sites is a much bigger problem. Some of the people that have been buying crazy amounts of isk do deserve to get banned, but the rest that bought minor amounts of isk seem to get alot of focus compaired to the tiny part of the problem they really are.
Riverini have made posts saying he is thinking about writing "how-to bot" stories on evenews24, if CCP does not disclose information on their fight against RMT and bots. While his intentions may be good, trying to force CCP to disclose information may just end up being better for the RMT industry then the eve community. Evenews24 seem to believe that they have given CCP the magic weapons against RMT, when it at best is nothing more then a list of players CCP can give bans or warnings as they see fit. No matter if CCP bans everyone on that list, the bots are still running and once all quiet againg it's just back to business for the people selling isk.
The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. It would be funny if Riverini have been so eager to expose the list, it's likely he did'nt want to pass up the opportunity for evenews24 to get it's 5 seconds of fame, that all it results in a couple of bans and alot of warnings, while most of the people supplying and running iskbank just starts a new site and continue their business.
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riverini
Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.11 17:47:00 -
[675]
Edited by: riverini on 11/03/2011 17:49:28
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems.
But on the page with the iskbank story..
Almost makes me wonder if they are going all out on this story to quell any competition for selling isk. And yes selling gtc is the same as selling isk. You just have to go through a few more steps to convert it is all.
So how about publishing your gtc purchaser list then evenews24 so we can see how much rl money players are spending on gtc to convert to isk.
+10 to you sir!
That banner is up for sale for 2.5 bil per month, so far the referral thingy isn't nearly as good as the pamphlet said. , Luckly I got a pretty decent RL job and can afford the hosting costs comfortably or you thought what ever is gotten from GTC is for personal use? remember this site has 2 partners ^__^
Also u conveniently left out the fact that we don't personally sell GTCs (there is an hilarious post in kugu foreplay about that), still I loved ur conjectures.
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Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 17:54:00 -
[676]
Originally by: dexington The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. It would be funny if Riverini have been so eager to expose the list, it's likely he did'nt want to pass up the opportunity for evenews24 to get it's 5 seconds of fame, that all it results in a couple of bans and alot of warnings, while most of the people supplying and running iskbank just starts a new site and continue their business.
Yup. Which is why direct legal action against rmt operations are futile at best and always a total waste of money. As soon as the isk seller site gets a wiff of impending legal action they just close the corp and make a new one under a new name and move to a new low rent hole in the wall and setup shop. Sure ccp could maybe eventually track them down and get them into court but I shudder to think of the legal expences involved especially as its a multinational operation. Meanwhile the hundred other sites are merrily selling isk left and right. No, the best way is to find the buyers and nuke their wallet(no bans needed as a nuked wallet is bad enough) then track the sales and nullify the isk in the offending sellers accounts and give them the permaban. Which is what this list could have done if evenews had simply worked with ccp instead of going for the ratings.
But now the prey is aware and taking measures to keep ccp from catching them so gg evenews24.
Stick to publishing botting name lists and you will do well but leave the heavy thinking stuff to the people who have the actual ability to use the information as you are not helping at all with this particular story.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Barakkus
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 17:58:00 -
[677]
Edited by: Barakkus on 11/03/2011 18:00:11
Originally by: dexington
The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation.
Doesn't matter if people running bots or doing RMT move their assets around. Even though "the logs show nothing", all that stuff would be a futile attempt since they can, and will, track down everything a suspect account has done, regardless if they open 1 new account to shift stuff to or 10. There is a little trail that can be followed regardless of what the player does.
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Yup. Which is why direct legal action against rmt operations are futile at best and always a total waste of money.
Speaking of which, does anyone know the results of Blizzard suing a few RMT companies a couple years ago? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:00:00 -
[678]
Originally by: riverini +10 to you sir!
That banner is up for sale for 2.5 bil per month, so far the referral thingy isn't nearly as good as the pamphlet said. , Luckly I got a pretty decent RL job and can afford the hosting costs comfortably or you thought what ever is gotten from GTC is for personal use? remember this site has 2 partners ^__^
Also u conveniently left out the fact that we don't personally sell GTCs (there is an hilarious post in kugu foreplay about that), still I loved ur conjectures.
I have no idea how profitable your gtc sales are and would not believe your claims if you said you were getting rich or losing your arse on the deal as I trust you about as much as any other random eve player with an agenda. I was just amused by it being on the same page as the story.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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LHA Tarawa
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:00:00 -
[679]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk.
+10 for you as you make a very strong point.
My only counter is, and I'll admit up front, that it is pretty weak...
The PLEX mechanism applies market forces, putting caps on each side.
With PLEX, there has to be a PLEX buyer (someone wanting to play for free) for the legal PLEX seller (someone looking to get ISK in exchange for real). If lots of people want to throw lots of real at the game, then the price of PLEX will fall until they are so cheap that people stop throwing real at the game or more people are willing to play for free by grindng ISK to buy all those PLEX. 1 person playing free for every subscription worth of RMT converted to ISK.
With out-of-game RMT for ISK, there is no balancing force. The botters can grind 40 bots at a billion ISK per bot per day, then sell a trillion ISK a month to thousands of players. 40 to 1000s vs. 1 to 1.
And, even if this is just to "crush the competition", the so what? Who should get the RMT? EVE who spends millions of dollars developing and operating the game, through a mechanism that lets people play for free? Or some fly-by-night hacker in Moldova with little cost other than electricity and internet to operate their illegal bots?
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Zhim'Fufu
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:03:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: dexington
The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation.
Doesn't matter if people running bots or doing RMT move their assets around. Even though "the logs show nothing", all that stuff would be a futile attempt since they can, and will, track down everything a suspect account has done, regardless if they open 1 new account to shift stuff to or 10. There is a little trail that can be followed regardless of what the player does.
Yes but ccp can't do a thing past banning the accounts if the isk sellers were warned the hammer is about to drop and ran a fire sale at deeply discounted prices to sell off the remaining isk before ccp could fully investigate.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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|
LHA Tarawa
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 18:04:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game.
Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk?
One funded the company that develops and operates the game via a mechanism that lets thousands of people play for free(on someone elses dime), and the other funded a criminal enterprise and encourages the development of other distasteful things like botters.
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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2011.03.11 18:09:00 -
[682]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I mean I didn't realise so many people cared so deeply about ccp's profitability that they would get all upset when some outside company gets the money for the isk instead of ccp.
CCP's profitability is what pays for new feature development, for more powerful servers, for more bandwidth, for everything.
EVE's profitability is what pays for the tiger team that is working on reducing lag. It pays for simple things like a meta level column in items list, and bigger things like the rework of moms into supercaps.
Every EVE player should put CCP's profitability at the top of their priorities.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 18:14:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Barakkus
Originally by: dexington
The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation.
Doesn't matter if people running bots or doing RMT move their assets around. Even though "the logs show nothing", all that stuff would be a futile attempt since they can, and will, track down everything a suspect account has done, regardless if they open 1 new account to shift stuff to or 10. There is a little trail that can be followed regardless of what the player does.
Yes but ccp can't do a thing past banning the accounts if the isk sellers were warned the hammer is about to drop and ran a fire sale at deeply discounted prices to sell off the remaining isk before ccp could fully investigate.
They may be able to do something, but it would be difficult depending on the country of origin. http://www.trademarkandcopyrightlawblog.com/uploads/file/Bizzard%20Order_on_Trial.pdf - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 18:15:00 -
[684]
Originally by: LHA Tarawa
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game.
Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk?
One funded the company that develops and operates the game via a mechanism that lets thousands of people play for free(on someone elses dime), and the other funded a criminal enterprise and encourages the development of other distasteful things like botters.
I am aware of that. I personally don't have any issues with plex for isk sales as it does open the game up in a positive way for more players especialy time constrained ones who have the sp and personal skill to contribute to a corp but little time to grind for isk to get the stuff he needs to contribute.
But thats not what the rage is about on this subject.
It's about 'zomg someone spent 7k usd on isk and now my game is ruined because I feel I can't compete'. Utter horseshiat of course but internats spaceships is serious buisiness after all.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:02:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Barakkus They may be able to do something, but it would be difficult depending on the country of origin. http://www.trademarkandcopyrightlawblog.com/uploads/file/Bizzard%20Order_on_Trial.pdf
Blizzard is so rich they could sue the pope because they claim he looks like some random npc just for the publicity and lulz. CCP is not nearly that rich.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:28:00 -
[686]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 19:36:27
Originally by: LHA Tarawa One funded the company that develops and operates the game via a mechanism that lets thousands of people play for free(on someone elses dime), and the other funded a criminal enterprise and encourages the development of other distasteful things like botters.
I think he is talking about the moral implications of buying game money with real money, and maybe for using real money in general for buying something other then a game subscription. I am not a fan of it and CCP introduced it only to offer players an alternative to ISK sellers. So, basically, was the moral aspect sanctioned by CCP and everyone now needs to decide on their own if they want to pay more for their game than just the monthly subscriptions. Poor players getting hot dropped by rich players (poor and rich in RL) has become part of the game play, but may have always been around one way or the other (with players running multiple accounts for example).
So now that we have resellers, and that the moral question of buying ISKs with real money is up to everyone, am I suprised that now thousands of players shall be banned for buying it from the wrong resellers. I can understand it if it was meant against everyone buying ISKs in general (still would I not support a massive ban of players), but is the goal not to get rid of the bots? Banning thousands of players to get rid of bots seems to me as likely the dumbest possible approach to solving the problem. Only closing EVE and throwing everyone out would be dumber. --
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Mister Grumpy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:35:00 -
[687]
Anyone who breaks the EULA is a cheater.
Buying a PLEX is allowed. RMT is not allowed. If you RMT you are a cheater.
Running a bot to make isk is not allowed. If you run a bot you are a cheater.
I want all cheaters out of the game ASAP. I think most legitimate players do.
If I pay for a game, the ground rules should be fair. We don't have to treat each other fairly in the game, but we should be on a level playing field.
Is this plain enough for everyone to understand?
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:40:00 -
[688]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Buying a PLEX is allowed. RMT is not allowed. If you RMT you are a cheater.
In what way? As far as 'fair' gameplay is concerned there is no difference between legally and illegally purchased isk. The only fault is that you bought it illegally which is a problem for ccp and not the average player.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Mister Grumpy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:42:00 -
[689]
learn to read
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:42:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for everyone to understand?
yes, but it's unclear if your oppinoion really matters...
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:44:00 -
[691]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy learn to read
Nice dodge. Now care to answer the question?
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:45:00 -
[692]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for everyone to understand?
yes, but it's unclear if your oppinoion really matters...
Oh I think it does. Makes a pleasant change from all the alts in the thread trying to deflect the attention from their mains
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:46:00 -
[693]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 19:48:29
Originally by: Mister Grumpy learn to read
The topic is about a large list of player names, who did not run bots, but may have bought ISKs from people who do. So while your way of seeing a problem is plain and simple are you looking at the wrong problem. --
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Mister Grumpy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:51:00 -
[694]
I believe the answer is in the first sentence of my post. The rules of the game are in the EULA. If you break it, you are a cheater. You may not like it, but you agreed to those terms when you started the account.
Is this plain enough for you to understand?
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:54:00 -
[695]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy I believe the answer is in the first sentence of my post. The rules of the game are in the EULA. If you break it, you are a cheater. You may not like it, but you agreed to those terms when you started the account.
Is this plain enough for you to understand?
Cheating implies gaining an unfair advantage over others. So again care to explain how illegally purchased isk gives a player an unfair advantage over one who buys it legally? If you cannot do this then your first sentence is false.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Mister Grumpy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:58:00 -
[696]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 19:48:29
Originally by: Mister Grumpy learn to read
The topic is about a large list of player names, who did not run bots, but may have bought ISKs from people who do. So while your way of seeing a problem is plain and simple are you looking at the wrong problem.
No, this topic is that a list of possible cheaters has been released. You are trying to confuse the issue every way you can, but you are making yourself look suspicious and foolish. Cheaters need to be expelled from the game. Period.
It is not our place to decide if these people are guilty or not. That is CCP's job. But bottom line, if they are cheaters, they should be gone immediately and finally. Not for a day, not for 3 days, but for good. It is not a grey area or a complicated issue. Cheaters should NOT be allowed in the game.
I have nothing else to say on this topic.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 19:59:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for you to understand?
What about mercy? It, too, is a simple thing to understand. --
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:00:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 19:48:29
Originally by: Mister Grumpy learn to read
The topic is about a large list of player names, who did not run bots, but may have bought ISKs from people who do. So while your way of seeing a problem is plain and simple are you looking at the wrong problem.
No, this topic is that a list of possible cheaters has been released. You are trying to confuse the issue every way you can, but you are making yourself look suspicious and foolish. Cheaters need to be expelled from the game. Period.
It is not our place to decide if these people are guilty or not. That is CCP's job. But bottom line, if they are cheaters, they should be gone immediately and finally. Not for a day, not for 3 days, but for good. It is not a grey area or a complicated issue. Cheaters should NOT be allowed in the game.
I have nothing else to say on this topic.
So you can't explain it eh? Again, nice dodge.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Mister Grumpy
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:03:00 -
[699]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Mister Grumpy I believe the answer is in the first sentence of my post. The rules of the game are in the EULA. If you break it, you are a cheater. You may not like it, but you agreed to those terms when you started the account.
Is this plain enough for you to understand?
Cheating implies gaining an unfair advantage over others. So again care to explain how illegally purchased isk gives a player an unfair advantage over one who buys it legally? If you cannot do this then your first sentence is false.
Because buying isk from a RMT is against the rules we all agreed to when we started playing this game. Again, please, I beg you, read the rules.
I don't care if this was plain enough or not, because I am done posting in this thread.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:08:00 -
[700]
Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 20:15:54
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Because buying isk from a RMT is against the rules we all agreed to when we started playing this game. Again, please, I beg you, read the rules.
I don't care if this was plain enough or not, because I am done posting in this thread.
Let us say for a minute that your name was on this list:
Mister Grumpy, $850.
Would you accept a ban just like this? Plain and simple, and because there is evidence that you broke the rules? Or would you agree that with a list as large as the one presented by EN24 the problem is more complicated? --
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:09:00 -
[701]
Originally by: Mister Grumpy
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Mister Grumpy I believe the answer is in the first sentence of my post. The rules of the game are in the EULA. If you break it, you are a cheater. You may not like it, but you agreed to those terms when you started the account.
Is this plain enough for you to understand?
Cheating implies gaining an unfair advantage over others. So again care to explain how illegally purchased isk gives a player an unfair advantage over one who buys it legally? If you cannot do this then your first sentence is false.
Because buying isk from a RMT is against the rules we all agreed to when we started playing this game. Again, please, I beg you, read the rules.
I don't care if this was plain enough or not, because I am done posting in this thread.
I never said buying illegal isk shouldn't be punished. I have stated several times that nuking their wallets is the best method for discouraging future transgressions whilst keeping a potentially valuable player in the game. To call it cheating however is just plain incorrect. So tell me this. If breaking the eula is universally cheating then are the guys who rip the graphics and sounds to put in a different game cheating you the eve player? Thats also breaking the eula.
I really want to hear this one.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:16:00 -
[702]
Zhim, you're a terrible troll. Trying to redefine what cheating is doesn't work when, lo and behold--
I post the dictionary definition of cheating.
Originally by: Online Dictionary
ûverb (used without object) 4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets. 5. to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
:oops: -- Need a break from EVE? |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:24:00 -
[703]
Originally by: captain foivos Zhim, you're a terrible troll. Trying to redefine what cheating is doesn't work when, lo and behold--
I post the dictionary definition of cheating.
And you are a terrible backup alt troll.
Originally by: Online Dictionary
ûverb (used without object) 4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets. 5. to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
:oops: Pertaining to 4. To practice fraud or deceit is to gain an unfair advantage over others be it scamming them out of money or abusing power gained from said fraudulent activities. Buying isk be it illegal or legal does not satisfy that condition as its still isk and has no special added value from being purchased illegally.
Pertaining to 5. The whole reason you don't want rules and regulations broken is to protect something. In the case of isk its protecting ccp's profits and not the players gaming enviroment.
:oops:
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:25:00 -
[704]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu To call it cheating however is just plain incorrect.
Get the **** out, sir. -- Need a break from EVE? |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:28:00 -
[705]
Originally by: captain foivos
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu To call it cheating however is just plain incorrect.
Get the **** out, sir.
So I'll pose the same question to you as to mister grumpy. How is isk that is bought illegally giving a player an unfair advantage over a player who bought it legally? If Incarantus had dropped 7k on gtc would he be a cheater then? Seems the stuff it buys is exactly the same so I'm simply not making the connection.
But please enlighten me.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:34:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for you to understand?
What about mercy? It, too, is a simple thing to understand.
There's no room for mercy. If someone bought the isk on an alt and biomassed the alt after transferring the isk to their main it won't do any good to try and punish the defunct alt. Yeah, you could send the main negative, but if they already spent the isk then it's out there in the system. Gets too complicated. Simplest thing to do is nail all accounts matching the buyers IP, ideally with a massive sucking of isk and an extended ban that turns off skill training. As for the sellers? Perma-ban of the accounts and a total deletion of all assets they're in possession of.
Hmm... yeah, that is prettu merciful. I'm a nicer guy than I realized.
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Torlin Valric
Minmatar Minmatar Mining Division
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:35:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: captain foivos
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu To call it cheating however is just plain incorrect.
Get the **** out, sir.
So I'll pose the same question to you as to mister grumpy. How is isk that is bought illegally giving a player an unfair advantage over a player who bought it legally? If Incarantus had dropped 7k on gtc would he be a cheater then? Seems the stuff it buys is exactly the same so I'm simply not making the connection.
But please enlighten me.
I assume you get more isk for your money when buying at a site who sells isk compared to buying gtc. If that is true then you get an unfair advantage over those who play by the rules and buy only gtc.
I would call that cheating
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:36:00 -
[708]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: captain foivos
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu To call it cheating however is just plain incorrect.
Get the **** out, sir.
So I'll pose the same question to you as to mister grumpy. How is isk that is bought illegally giving a player an unfair advantage over a player who bought it legally? If Incarantus had dropped 7k on gtc would he be a cheater then? Seems the stuff it buys is exactly the same so I'm simply not making the connection.
But please enlighten me.
You know... the answer to your question is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if they have the exact same benefits as someone that bought legally. Like you said, they bought illegally. That violates the EULA, they should be punished.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:36:00 -
[709]
Originally by: captain foivos Zhim, you're a terrible troll. Trying to redefine what cheating is doesn't work when, lo and behold--
I post the dictionary definition of cheating.
Originally by: Online Dictionary
ûverb (used without object) 4. to practice fraud or deceit: She cheats without regrets. 5. to violate rules or regulations: He cheats at cards.
:oops:
I am very disappointed in you, for you are my hero :(
At least post all of the definitions: cheat (tʃiːt) ù vb (when intr, usually foll by on ) 1.to deceive or practise deceit, esp for one's own gain; trick or swindle (someone) 2.( intr ) to obtain unfair advantage by trickery, as in a game of cards
3.( tr ) to escape or avoid (something unpleasant) by luck or cunning: to cheat death 4.informal to be sexually unfaithful to (one's wife, husband, or lover) ù n 5.a person who cheats 6.a deliberately dishonest transaction, esp for gain; fraud 7.informal sham 8.law the obtaining of another's property by fraudulent means 9.the usual US name for rye-brome
Unfortunately Zhim's definition is also acceptable. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:45:00 -
[710]
Originally by: Barakkus Unfortunately Zhim's definition is also acceptable.
Unfortunately?
Hey I'm all for ccp punishing them for putting rl monies into the bot farmers hands but no matter what its still not cheating.
Originally by: Torlin Valric I assume you get more isk for your money when buying at a site who sells isk compared to buying gtc. If that is true then you get an unfair advantage over those who play by the rules and buy only gtc.
I would call that cheating
Thats a good point but you don't get very much more isk from the rmters than you do from converting a gtc unless you buy in bulk. So about the only way to really make that difference stand out is to drop some major money on it to get the mass purchase effect. For the vast majority of buyers on that list they bought less than $100 in isk so that would hardly convey any tangable benefit over plex isk.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Barakkus
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:46:00 -
[711]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Unfortunately?
Hey I'm all for ccp punishing them for putting rl monies into the bot farmers hands but no matter what its still not cheating.
captain fovois is my hero, so it's unfortunate :( - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:56:00 -
[712]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst There's no room for mercy.
Damn, you are funny. --
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:59:00 -
[713]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for you to understand?
What about mercy? It, too, is a simple thing to understand.
It is pretty funny that the main troll in this topic is now actually begging for mercy!
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Kar Avon
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Posted - 2011.03.11 20:59:00 -
[714]
Originally by: dexington
They just can't do it based on a database they have no legal right to use, if it's illegal for them to be in possession of iskbank database which was obtained by commiting a crime, they may be commiting a crime by using it.
So every newspaper in the world that has reprinted the Wikileaks material may have been commiting a crime. I'm sure there are those in the US using your logic when they call for Julian Assange to be assasinated
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.03.11 21:01:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Mister Grumpy
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Mister Grumpy I believe the answer is in the first sentence of my post. The rules of the game are in the EULA. If you break it, you are a cheater. You may not like it, but you agreed to those terms when you started the account.
Is this plain enough for you to understand?
Cheating implies gaining an unfair advantage over others. So again care to explain how illegally purchased isk gives a player an unfair advantage over one who buys it legally? If you cannot do this then your first sentence is false.
Because buying isk from a RMT is against the rules we all agreed to when we started playing this game. Again, please, I beg you, read the rules.
I don't care if this was plain enough or not, because I am done posting in this thread.
I never said buying illegal isk shouldn't be punished. I have stated several times that nuking their wallets is the best method for discouraging future transgressions whilst keeping a potentially valuable player in the game. To call it cheating however is just plain incorrect. So tell me this. If breaking the eula is universally cheating then are the guys who rip the graphics and sounds to put in a different game cheating you the eve player? Thats also breaking the eula.
I really want to hear this one.
If wanted then purchasing illegal isk could be explained as cheating:
Cheat contains the meaning about violation of rules or regulations to gain unfair advantage.
Purchasing isk from isk farmers violates the rule or regulation that no ingame items except GTC can be purchased outside of the game.
While legal people sell PLEX for isk, cheaters purchase isk via irregular means to get the cheaper price, that is the unfair advantage.
Trying to justify the unfair advantage by "you don't get very much more" is a bad point. Since your "not very much" to other people could be "very very much", and that refers to the reason why those peolpe don't purchase isk by selling plex.
Beating a kids for $10 is still robbery. Maybe ccp would decide if to ban them according to the amount but nodoubtly it is cheating.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 21:02:00 -
[716]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Thats a good point but you don't get very much more isk from the rmters than you do from converting a gtc unless you buy in bulk. So about the only way to really make that difference stand out is to drop some major money on it to get the mass purchase effect. For the vast majority of buyers on that list they bought less than $100 in isk so that would hardly convey any tangable benefit over plex isk.
You get around twice the amount when buying from RMT sites, compared to using plex.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.11 21:03:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Thats a good point but you don't get very much more isk from the rmters than you do from converting a gtc unless you buy in bulk. So about the only way to really make that difference stand out is to drop some major money on it to get the mass purchase effect. For the vast majority of buyers on that list they bought less than $100 in isk so that would hardly convey any tangable benefit over plex isk.
Ah, so cheating is okay so long as you only cheat a little bit?
Got it.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.11 21:29:00 -
[718]
Originally by: Chuck Sands It is pretty funny that the main troll in this topic is now actually begging for mercy!
Do I beg for mercy now?
I am advocating the idea of mercy!
And I am not doing it for myself. I have no reason to.
I have to admit that I am going out on a limb here by advocating the idea of having mercy, seeing how you have accepted the list as the truth and wish for nothing more than to see a large number of players getting banned. I am guessing that your greatest dream is to be playing EVE as the only player without any others and with the entire CCP staff flying orbits around you for your sole entertainment. --
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2011.03.11 21:37:00 -
[719]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Chuck Sands It is pretty funny that the main troll in this topic is now actually begging for mercy!
Do I beg for mercy now?
I am advocating the idea of mercy!
And I am not doing it for myself. I have no reason to.
I have to admit that I am going out on a limb here by advocating the idea of having mercy, seeing how you have accepted the list as the truth and wish for nothing more than to see a large number of players getting banned. I am guessing that your greatest dream is to be playing EVE as the only player without any others and with the entire CCP staff flying orbits around you for your sole entertainment.
So now you are an "advocate of mercy" for the "good of the game?" The best thing for the game would be to kick out the stinking cheats once and for all.
Like you said, you have nothing to hide.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 21:48:00 -
[720]
Originally by: Chuck Sands The best thing for the game would be to kick out the stinking cheats once and for all.
There is maybe 100 names on that list that risk geting banned. 2800 of the 3600 spend 100$ or less would be a suprise if they got more then a warning, and only 120 spend 500$ or more if any they are probably the only once that have anything to fear.
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:00:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Avon
Ah, so cheating is okay so long as you only cheat a little bit?
Got it.
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Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:01:00 -
[722]
Im still of the opinion that all cheaters should be kicked permanently. If you can't abide by the rules, you don't get to play. No excuses, no mercy, just a permanent ban.
Originally by: Johnny Dexter bombs everyone to Narnia
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:22:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Burnharder If that happens it'll just be you and I left on the server Dex. 1v1?
nah... with all the bots gone i'll starting mining and take over the RMT, wanna buy some isk?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:25:00 -
[724]
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Im still of the opinion that all cheaters should be kicked permanently. If you can't abide by the rules, you don't get to play. No excuses, no mercy, just a permanent ban.
I am getting a bit disappointed here. Cheating is a part of our intelligence. EVE players are among the most intelligent. Feeling grief over cheaters (where did they touch you, huh?) is not what an EVE player does. Perhaps you are just not an EVE player. --
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Chuck Sands
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:30:00 -
[725]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Im still of the opinion that all cheaters should be kicked permanently. If you can't abide by the rules, you don't get to play. No excuses, no mercy, just a permanent ban.
I am getting a bit disappointed here. Cheating is a part of our intelligence. EVE players are among the most intelligent. Feeling grief over cheaters (where did they touch you, huh?) is not what an EVE player does. Perhaps you are just not an EVE player.
How many more ways can you try to justify cheaters? You are really starting to sound desperate and pathetic!
"Real EVE players are not concerned about being cheated!"
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Cutter Isaacson
Minmatar Hollow World Mining Corporation
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:35:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Cutter Isaacson Im still of the opinion that all cheaters should be kicked permanently. If you can't abide by the rules, you don't get to play. No excuses, no mercy, just a permanent ban.
I am getting a bit disappointed here. Cheating is a part of our intelligence. EVE players are among the most intelligent. Feeling grief over cheaters (where did they touch you, huh?) is not what an EVE player does. Perhaps you are just not an EVE player.
Cheating as part of the game mechanics is not what I am talking about as well you know, I was referring to cheating as in breaking the rules laid down by CCP in the EULA. Your attempts at trolling get more and more pathetic with every word you type, however it does make me laugh.
Originally by: Johnny Dexter bombs everyone to Narnia
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M'ktakh
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Posted - 2011.03.11 22:38:00 -
[727]
Edited by: M''ktakh on 11/03/2011 22:38:39
Originally by: Whitehound I am getting a bit disappointed here. Cheating is a part of our intelligence. EVE players are among the most intelligent. Feeling grief over cheaters (where did they touch you, huh?) is not what an EVE player does. Perhaps you are just not an EVE player.
Cheating, scamming, pirating, being an asshat in game or in forums: OK
Cheating by buying ISK from an RMT site: NOT OKAY.
See, its easy.
edit: Isaacsson'd
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.11 23:22:00 -
[728]
Originally by: Whitehound
I am getting a bit disappointed here. Cheating is a part of our intelligence. EVE players are among the most intelligent. Feeling grief over cheaters (where did they touch you, huh?) is not what an EVE player does. Perhaps you are just not an EVE player.
I'm sorry, I am losing you a bit here.
Are you confessing to cheating or admitting that you are dumb?
Retro sig |
Perramas
Caldari Pan Caldarian Ventures
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Posted - 2011.03.11 23:34:00 -
[729]
Originally by: Whitehound EVE players are among the most intelligent.
I call BS after reading the responses to this post and the other megapost on botting. Many EVE players are cup drooling ******s just like in those other mmorpgs.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 00:04:00 -
[730]
Originally by: Perramas
Originally by: Whitehound EVE players are among the most intelligent.
I call BS after reading the responses to this post and the other megapost on botting. Many EVE players are cup drooling ******s just like in those other mmorpgs.
The statement did not make a lot of sense, did it? --
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Janis Ezra
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Posted - 2011.03.12 00:47:00 -
[731]
they earned ~400.000$ in one year, with just 2 RMT sites, with just some fcking spaceships. I have the wrong job.....
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.12 05:10:00 -
[732]
Originally by: Janis Ezra they earned ~400.000$ in one year, with just 2 RMT sites, with just some fcking spaceships. I have the wrong job.....
400 dollars per year isn't that great, tbh.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.12 05:20:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Janis Ezra they earned ~400.000$ in one year, with just 2 RMT sites, with just some fcking spaceships. I have the wrong job.....
400 dollars per year isn't that great, tbh.
* In Albania, Serbia[citation needed], Bosnia, Estonia, France, Finland, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and much of Latin Europe as well as French Canada: 1 234 567,89 (In Spain, in handwriting it is also common to use an upper comma: 1.234.567'89)[citation needed]
* In Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Italy, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Slovenia and much of Europe: 1 234 567,89 or 1.234.567,89. In handwriting, 1˙234˙567,89 is also seen, but never in Denmark, the Netherlands, Portugal, Sweden or Slovenia. In Italy, when handwriting, a straight apostrophe is also used: 1'234'567,89.
source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark
... and I wonder how this was related to the topic in 1st place.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.12 05:24:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Thats a good point but you don't get very much more isk from the rmters than you do from converting a gtc unless you buy in bulk. So about the only way to really make that difference stand out is to drop some major money on it to get the mass purchase effect. For the vast majority of buyers on that list they bought less than $100 in isk so that would hardly convey any tangable benefit over plex isk.
Ah, so cheating is okay so long as you only cheat a little bit?
Got it.
No, I said that the difference between the average plex isk purchase and the average rmt isk purchase is about the same so anyone trying to say that zomg you get an unfair advantage by purchasing rmt isk is just splitting hairs. But go ahead and spin it any way you wish as its all pretty much irrelevant because ccp has the final say on any potential punishment. Now to be fair if you dropped some major rl monies on rmt isk you can easily get double or more than you get from plex but again that is only relevant to a tiny portion of the ones on that list.
Let the witchhunt continue though as it seems to be the gd totm.(topic of the moment)
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Alty McExpendable
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2011.03.12 06:46:00 -
[735]
You really don't get it, do you.
P.S. keep posting the B.S.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.12 07:00:00 -
[736]
Originally by: Alty McExpendable You really don't get it, do you.
P.S. keep posting the B.S.
wtf does that have to do with anything in this thread?
Here let me state it in clear terms with no amusing but irrelevant youtube antics thrown in.
The ship that you bought with rmt isk that you used to blow up some other players ship is no different than the ship you bought with plex isk that you used to blow up some other players ship. Both ships were purchased with rl monies. Both ships have exactly the same stats. Both ships could care less if you bought them with rmt isk or plex isk or mission grinding isk or trade isk or any form of isk.
Period.
You can split hairs all day long but its simply not true.
Now yet again is it right that people buy rmt isk? Of course not for many many many valid reasons. But cheating is not one of them.
I gleefully await the next suicide post.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Alty McExpendable
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2011.03.12 07:15:00 -
[737]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu wtf does that have to do with anything in this thread?
It has to do with you attempting to redefine reality as something it isn't. Well, guess what: reality ain't gonna change. And the reality is, cheating is cheating. A violation of the EULA in order to gain an advantage is cheating (in this case, paying money to real-money-traders for ISK instead of paying money to CCP for PLEX, which, since you don't understand when people don't explicitly say so and even then usually don't, is NOT the same as ISK. It can be sold on the market for ISK, but it is in itself not ISK). It is quite literally defined that way.
Please point out the part(s) you fail to understand.
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Torlin Valric
Minmatar Minmatar Mining Division
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Posted - 2011.03.12 08:02:00 -
[738]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Alty McExpendable You really don't get it, do you.
P.S. keep posting the B.S.
wtf does that have to do with anything in this thread?
Here let me state it in clear terms with no amusing but irrelevant youtube antics thrown in.
The ship that you bought with rmt isk that you used to blow up some other players ship is no different than the ship you bought with plex isk that you used to blow up some other players ship. Both ships were purchased with rl monies. Both ships have exactly the same stats. Both ships could care less if you bought them with rmt isk or plex isk or mission grinding isk or trade isk or any form of isk.
Period.
You can split hairs all day long but its simply not true.
Now yet again is it right that people buy rmt isk? Of course not for many many many valid reasons. But cheating is not one of them.
I gleefully await the next suicide post.
Someone said that you get twice as much isk when buying from an isk site (i guess you prefer to ignore that) so you can buy 2 ships for the same money as someone who buys gtc.
It is cheating, you don't seem to get that. Don't worry tho, nobody is perfect.
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Ejit
Amarr STD contractors
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Posted - 2011.03.12 08:20:00 -
[739]
I've been following this with some interest.
And whilst I detest all forms of RMT and the farming methods involved. The conspiracy theorist in me can't help but think that this, no matter how compelling the evidence. Is nothing more, given the convenient timing of It's release! a concerted effort to derail CCP in the run up to Fanfest. What better way to bring botting and Farming to the forefront of any Fanfest discussion, yes?
Now I'm not saying it isn't a problem, (hell I bought 100 mill on my first account for a mission Raven many years back because I was none the wiser)
Also you have to ask yourself. Why, after all these years have CCP not introduced some sort of warning\mailing system for new accounts in big red letters stating that ISK, ship, module, assets of any kind... etc. etc. Are illegal to purchase anywhere. (accept their PLEX) But ultimately I think this is a problem CCP tolerate to a certain extent, just like they tolerate the RMT\bots. As any decisive action against both would have a significant and detrimental effect on CCP's business plan and future incomes.
So! I think CCP need not continue their (supposed) efforts to combat RMT and Bot action. But rather consider ways to incorporate noob and user friendly alternatives into the game and their long term business plans, as a means of survival.
They are never going to abolish it completely. From a survival point of view, I think CCP should consider more legitimate methods of acquiring ingame currency and assets for the needy pilot.
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.12 08:41:00 -
[740]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Janis Ezra they earned ~400.000$ in one year, with just 2 RMT sites, with just some fcking spaceships. I have the wrong job.....
400 dollars per year isn't that great, tbh.
* In Albania, Serbia[citation needed], Bosnia, Estonia, France, Finland, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia and much of Latin Europe as well as French Canada: 1 234 567,89 (In Spain, in handwriting it is also common to use an upper comma: 1.234.567'89)[citation needed]
* In Germany, Netherlands, Belgium, Denmark, Italy, Portugal, Romania, Sweden, Slovenia and much of Europe: 1 234 567,89 or 1.234.567,89. In handwriting, 1˙234˙567,89 is also seen, but never in Denmark, the Netherlands, Portugal, Sweden or Slovenia. In Italy, when handwriting, a straight apostrophe is also used: 1'234'567,89. Uness source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decimal_mark
... and I wonder how this was related to the topic in 1st place.
Presumably this was posted to contadict my post. However, we're not in Albaniia, Serbia, or Bosnia, etc. Someone used the "dollar" symbol. So how about using the symbols common to the place that uses the "dollar" symbol primarily? Unless Serbia has suddenly adopted the American currency as its norm. Which it might have, cos who the **** is looking for a Dinar these days.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 09:00:00 -
[741]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez Presumably this was posted to contadict my post. However, we're not in Albaniia, Serbia, or Bosnia, etc. Someone used the "dollar" symbol. So how about using the symbols common to the place that uses the "dollar" symbol primarily? Unless Serbia has suddenly adopted the American currency as its norm. Which it might have, cos who the **** is looking for a Dinar these days.
Lets not change common localizations, just because you have a hard time understanding them.
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Opertone
Caldari World - of - Empire Cassiopeia.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 09:06:00 -
[742]
we need to kindly ask CCP to turn EVE into MACRO bears online. All players are given tools to do missions and kill NPCs with built in AI...
Bah no more macro, no more RMT, everyone can fit a Raven and hit AI button for automated ISK making.
but will be EvE challenging you say, yes it will, the prices will go up to 1 mill/piece of trit, but hard earned ISK will remain hard earned ISK. I am getting a drake, 10 bill ISK ready.
time to make happy EvE
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 09:38:00 -
[743]
Edited by: Whitehound on 12/03/2011 09:44:19
Originally by: Torlin Valric Someone said that you get twice as much isk when buying from an isk site (i guess you prefer to ignore that) so you can buy 2 ships for the same money as someone who buys gtc.
It is cheating, you don't seem to get that. Don't worry tho, nobody is perfect.
With some illegitimate sites you may get it cheaper, but it has also been said that some charge you as much as CCP. Some legitimate resellers then offer cheaper prices than CCP. So while your definition of cheating is fine, is it also useless.
I still think that CCP's goal is not to punish people, or to rid the world of RMTs, but to get rid of the bots on their server. If CCP wanted to fight all RMT then they would not have introduced PLEX, because PLEX is obviously of use to RMT no matter if it is legitimate or not.
When CCP bans a bot then they remove all the ISKs generated by it from the game, too. It is merely a logical consequence of the removal process. If a player bought from an illegitimate source and then finds a negative ISK amount in his or her wallet, then it is not a punishment by CCP. It may feel like it, but the player who bought it is really just a victim and it is only logical to remove the ISKs.
I can imagine that there will be exceptions to it, when a player repeatedly buys from illegitimate sources, and CCP may want to ban the player. Someone who repeatedly falls victim to illegitimate transfers could turn out to be an accomplice. Generally, however, should players who buy items from RMTs be treated as victims and not as offenders.
CCP introduced PLEX so that players do not have to become victims in CCP's fight against the bots, but it does not make the remaining victims now suddenly offenders. CCP likes players and they wish to keep them. --
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.12 11:07:00 -
[744]
Edited by: Grey Stormshadow on 12/03/2011 11:13:22
Please waiti - loading RMT supporters brainfunctions...
...memory check - read only mode ...laywer module 0.1beta - active ...upgraded trolling set 2.3c - active ...bs module 12.843final - active ...learning skills 1.0 - not available ...spam module 1.0 - active
Ready for serious internet business.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.03.12 11:31:00 -
[745]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 12/03/2011 11:32:26
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Here let me state it in clear terms with no amusing but irrelevant youtube antics thrown in.
The ship that you bought with rmt isk that you used to blow up some other players ship is no different than the ship you bought with plex isk that you used to blow up some other players ship. Both ships were purchased with rl monies. Both ships have exactly the same stats. Both ships could care less if you bought them with rmt isk or plex isk or mission grinding isk or trade isk or any form of isk.
Period.
You can split hairs all day long but its simply not true.
Now yet again is it right that people buy rmt isk? Of course not for many many many valid reasons. But cheating is not one of them.
I gleefully await the next suicide post.
Using the same reasonment:
Whether I work 10 hours a day and get paid EUR 3000 at the end of the month or I go out and kill someone and pry his wallet with EUR 3000 is no different.
It's clearly straight.
Oh wait, you DID sign a license agreement where YOU signed you'd not buy RMT money. If you do, then you are out. That simple. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.12 11:42:00 -
[746]
Edited by: Avon on 12/03/2011 11:42:27
Originally by: Whitehound Generally, however, should players who buy items from RMTs be treated as victims and not as offenders.
Is this you putting in your plea for leniency before getting caught?
The victims are all the subscribers who play the game within the rules and yet suffer the consequences of RMT.
The people who fund RMT, who make it worthwhile and profitable, they are the offenders.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 12:06:00 -
[747]
Originally by: Avon Is this you putting in your plea for leniency before getting caught?
The victims are all the subscribers who play the game within the rules and yet suffer the consequences of RMT.
The people who fund RMT, who make it worthwhile and profitable, they are the offenders.
The only thing that offends you is the thought process involved in comprehending the situation. So get your torch ready and join the lynch mob. You will feel much better after some running and shouting. In fact, you will feel so good that you are not going to mind it when CCP does not ban thousands of players after all. Do you want to bet? --
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 12:14:00 -
[748]
Originally by: Whitehound In fact, you will feel so good that you are not going to mind it when CCP does not ban thousands of players after all.
You're expecting sympathy from the playerbase when (or if) CCP ban "thousands" of people who deliberately broke the EULA?
Dream on. Everyone not involved in cheating will simply say "well done CCP, go ban some more of them".
Simple as.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.12 12:22:00 -
[749]
Originally by: Whitehound
The only thing that offends you is the thought process involved in comprehending the situation. So get your torch ready and join the lynch mob. You will feel much better after some running and shouting. In fact, you will feel so good that you are not going to mind it when CCP does not ban thousands of players after all. Do you want to bet?
Au contraire, I fully comprehend the topic. What I fail to understand is how you can take the stance you do in light of you self proclaimed mastery of the subject.
It isn't even very complicated. The bottom line is that some people break the rules set down by CCP and others profit from it.
My position is that those people who do not wish to abide by the rules should be excluded from participating in the game.
Your position seems to be that they are somehow victims of circumstance and should be treated accordingly.
I disagree.
I'm not looking for a lynch mob, or mass bannings. However I am quite happy for CCP to investigate anyone who appears on a list such as the one in this thread and to ban them permanently if they believe RMT has occured.
If I appeared on a list like this I would encourage CCP to investigate the claims as I have nothing to hide. More than that, I would have no issue with CCP making the results of any such investigation public. In fact I would prefer that they did.
You, however, seem like a man with something to hide.
Retro sig |
Nannageddon
The Devil's Right Hand Black Cartel.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 12:33:00 -
[750]
Originally by: Avon You, however, seem like a man with something to hide.
And he's doing such a fine job of it.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 12:51:00 -
[751]
Originally by: Avon My position is that those people who do not wish to abide by the rules should be excluded from participating in the game.
That's a very black and white way to look at it, if you get a friend to log on your account to do a simple task like adding a skill to the queue, then you are breaking the rules. Trolling the forums is breaking the rules, there are lots of ways people are breaking the rules everyday.
Saying that someone that used 10$ to buy isk needs to be banned is just stupid, it has not been the policy of CCP to do this, can't see why they should changed the rule just because someone hacked a RMT site and leaked the customer database.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:04:00 -
[752]
Edited by: Whitehound on 12/03/2011 13:05:27 The signs of a lynch mob:
Originally by: Othran You're expecting sympathy from the playerbase when (or if) CCP ban "thousands" of people who deliberately broke the EULA?
The mob assume they did it all on purpose and for evil motives ...
Originally by: Avon However I am quite happy for CCP to investigate anyone who appears on a list such as the one in this thread and to ban them permanently if they believe RMT has occured.
... and so shall all be banned permanently (and because one is not allowed to burn them alive).
While you are a lynch mob is CCP not the Spanish Inquisition. It is their EULA and they decide if they apply its rules. It is not us. All you really write when you say "Break the rules, get the consequence" is that you understand the EULA, but not its application.
What if the entire player base breaks a rule in the EULA? You think CCP will shut down their game? Is this how you see the EULA?
If you then believe the crap on EveNews24 are you a fool. EveNews24 has written articles about RMT before. Not only did they write about how it is being done, but they also provided links in their articles to the sites of these RMTs and the bots. Now they bring a list of thousands of players and mark them as guilty. Do you think that this is all right?
Do you believe that CCP wants to join into this nonsense?
And do you want to be a part of it? --
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:11:00 -
[753]
Originally by: Whitehound
The mob assume they did it all on purpose and for evil motives ...
Hard to work out how you can do it by accident
Anyway enough from me, everyone knows where you stand on the matter.
They can draw their own conclusions
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:23:00 -
[754]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Whitehound
The mob assume they did it all on purpose and for evil motives ...
Hard to work out how you can do it by accident
Most knew what they where doing and that it was against the eula, but you can't rule out that some new players didn't realize what they were doing before it was to late. You are allowed to buy GTC from 3. party websites but you are not allowed to buy plex, the business design where some sites are allowed to "sell isk" and others are not, does open a trap for people who don't know the difference.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:35:00 -
[755]
Edited by: Othran on 12/03/2011 13:38:22 Edited by: Othran on 12/03/2011 13:37:16
Originally by: dexington
Most knew what they where doing and that it was against the eula, but you can't rule out that some new players didn't realize what they were doing before it was to late. You are allowed to buy GTC from 3. party websites but you are not allowed to buy plex, the business design where some sites are allowed to "sell isk" and others are not, does open a trap for people who don't know the difference.
Take a look through the list. Its obvious which is which. CCP aren't going to ban someone because they spent $7.68 on 238mill of ISK. Edit - nor should they unless its a repeat offence, just take the isk.
No excuses for buying titans, moms, implants, PLEX, 25bill isk etc etc from an out of game source. They need a ban. Simple as.
Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX.
Anyone trying to say there's some doubt about this is trolling or has a vested monetary interest in the matter.
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Janis Ezra
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:40:00 -
[756]
Originally by: Nina Mercedez
Originally by: Janis Ezra they earned ~400.000$ in one year, with just 2 RMT sites, with just some fcking spaceships. I have the wrong job.....
400 dollars per year isn't that great, tbh.
ok, for ******ed americans like you, I will write it again in any way so youll understand:
400 thousand 400 000 400,000.00 400.000,00
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.12 13:46:00 -
[757]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon However I am quite happy for CCP to investigate anyone who appears on a list such as the one in this thread and to ban them permanently if they believe RMT has occured.
... and so shall all be banned permanently (and because one is not allowed to burn them alive).
While you are a lynch mob is CCP not the Spanish Inquisition. It is their EULA and they decide if they apply its rules. It is not us. All you really write when you say "Break the rules, get the consequence" is that you understand the EULA, but not its application.
What if the entire player base breaks a rule in the EULA? You think CCP will shut down their game? Is this how you see the EULA?
I made made no comment on how CCP should enforce their EULA, I only stated that I am happy for them to do so, up to and including permanent banning for RMT.
The worst possible outcome for an innocent person on that list is no investigation, because then there is no way for them to clear their name, is there?
I'm sure if your name was on there you would also want CCP to investigate and clear you, right? As your name had already appeared on a public list, and so was already tarnished, you would want the outcome of any investigation to be made public, right? And you would want all the scumbuckets you had been associated with to be punished, right?
Ignore the fact that in this case the list is about RMT. Do you think CCP should investigate accusations of cheating? Do you think that cheaters should be punished? Dp you think that, in order to protect the integrity of the game, CCP should be able to choose any appropriate punishment, up to and including permanent account bans?
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:01:00 -
[758]
Originally by: Othran No excuses for buying titans, moms, implants, PLEX, 25bill isk etc etc from an out of game source. They need a ban. Simple as.
You are joining the lynch mob again. Only because you cannot afford a Titan does it not justify a punishment, nor does it justify forgiveness when someone bought an amount you consider for yourself as minor. All CCP will do is to remove the ISKs produced by bots. It does not matter how small or large an amount is.
There is no need for a lynch mob and a parasitic press instigating it all. --
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:03:00 -
[759]
Read this from Evenews24:
Update 1: Hours after our first story on the Iskbank.com leak broke, all listings for ISK, items and characters were removed from both Iskbank.com and Eveisk.ru. While thereÆs no way to be certain of the reason for this change, we invite our readers to draw their own conclusions. We have also received reports (one sent from an email address we have confirmed belongs to a former Iskbank.com customer) that some of the players on the list have been banned for engaging in RMT activity.
Source: http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/11/iskbank-com-client-list-revised-edition/
Seems like they are taking action :)
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:05:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Othran No excuses for buying titans, moms, implants, PLEX, 25bill isk etc etc from an out of game source. They need a ban. Simple as.
You are joining the lynch mob again. Only because you cannot afford a Titan does it not justify a punishment, nor does it justify forgiveness when someone bought an amount you consider for yourself as minor. All CCP will do is to remove the ISKs produced by bots. It does not matter how small or large an amount is.
There is no need for a lynch mob and a parasitic press instigating it all.
Answer Avon's questions please :
"Ignore the fact that in this case the list is about RMT. Do you think CCP should investigate accusations of cheating? Do you think that cheaters should be punished? Dp you think that, in order to protect the integrity of the game, CCP should be able to choose any appropriate punishment, up to and including permanent account bans?"
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Valandria Koshun
Caldari Morior Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:13:00 -
[761]
just ban them all its uninteressting if you buy for 10$ or 1000$ its against the eula and the only way to dry out this mud
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:15:00 -
[762]
Originally by: Othran Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX.
You assume a lot to prove your point, the eula allows for parents to establish accounts for minors. You can't always expect chrildren in non english speaking countries to fully understand the eula, which is one of the reasons you need an adult guardian to establish the account. You also can't expect a person why never played eve or have no interest in the game, to understand the difference between GTC and plex.
It's an unlikely situation, but it's likely enough that minors play the game to CCP adding a paragraph about it in the eula.
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:18:00 -
[763]
Trolling comment removed. |
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:27:00 -
[764]
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 12/03/2011 14:21:07
Originally by: Othran Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX.
You assume a lot to prove your point, the eula allows for parents to establish accounts for minors. You can't always expect chrildren in non english speaking countries to fully understand the eula, which is one of the reasons you need an adult guardian to establish the account. You also can't expect a person who never played eve or have no interest in the game, to understand the difference between GTC and plex.
It's an unlikely situation, but it's likely enough that minors play the game for CCP to add a paragraph about it in the eula.
See I think you're trolling now. First you say you can't expect people to understand the EULA then you want a new paragraph in it.
GTFO.
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:29:00 -
[765]
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 12/03/2011 14:21:07
Originally by: Othran Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX.
You assume a lot to prove your point, the eula allows for parents to establish accounts for minors. You can't always expect chrildren in non english speaking countries to fully understand the eula, which is one of the reasons you need an adult guardian to establish the account. You also can't expect a person who never played eve or have no interest in the game, to understand the difference between GTC and plex.
It's an unlikely situation, but it's likely enough that minors play the game for CCP to add a paragraph about it in the eula.
Not understanding the rules is an ok excuse?
I'm gonna try that next time I get pulled over for something I'm not 100% legaly sure of. COOL!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:29:00 -
[766]
Edited by: Whitehound on 12/03/2011 14:33:13
Originally by: Avon The worst possible outcome for an innocent person on that list is no investigation, because then there is no way for them to clear their name, is there?
I doubt you will ever see CCP clearing the list. People on that list have to wait until it is forgotten. It would be a nice move by CCP to clear the situation, but it is their call.
Originally by: Avon Do you think CCP should investigate accusations of cheating?
You mean on this scale as we see now? No. It is just too much effort to go through a list of thousands of player names provided by an anonymous source. CCP already employs staff to fight off bots. This list will give CCP a lot of work and it may be that it is just one RMTer who tries to deflect from his bots by providing CCP with information on a competing RMTer. Such a move by an RMTer would effectively buy them time, because CCP only has got a limited number of staff.
Individual accusations are already being handled by CCP and this is good.
Originally by: Avon Do you think that cheaters should be punished?
Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law. If we would punish people regardless of this then it would make us heartless people. Now EVE is just a game and not the real world. Here it is even more important not to punish people too quickly. So generally no, cheaters should not be punished, but only the hardest cases.
Originally by: Avon Dp you think that, in order to protect the integrity of the game, CCP should be able to choose any appropriate punishment, up to and including permanent account bans?
It does not matter what I think. CCP does ban people permanently afaik. This already answers your question. --
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:33:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: dexington Edited by: dexington on 12/03/2011 14:21:07
Originally by: Othran Everyone KNOWS that if you buy in-game items from out of game sources then you are cheating. ISK IS an in-game item, as is PLEX.
You assume a lot to prove your point, the eula allows for parents to establish accounts for minors. You can't always expect chrildren in non english speaking countries to fully understand the eula, which is one of the reasons you need an adult guardian to establish the account. You also can't expect a person who never played eve or have no interest in the game, to understand the difference between GTC and plex.
It's an unlikely situation, but it's likely enough that minors play the game for CCP to add a paragraph about it in the eula.
See I think you're trolling now. First you say you can't expect people to understand the EULA then you want a new paragraph in it.
GTFO.
That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:37:00 -
[768]
Originally by: dexington That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex.
You can expect them to know that a GTC is not an in-game item.
Enough excuses in this thread TBH.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:39:00 -
[769]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Not understanding the rules is an ok excuse?
I'm gonna try that next time I get pulled over for something I'm not 100% legaly sure of. COOL!
I never said it was a excuse, i'm just saying that you can't assume that everyone deliberately broke the eula. The gut buying the titan knows what he is doing, but it's not impossible that someone just did'nt understand the difference between GTC and plex and ended you spending 10$ a RMT site.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:43:00 -
[770]
Originally by: Whitehound So generally no, cheaters should not be punished
I shortened it so people could cut through the BS.
Oh and as far as this goes :
"Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law. If we would punish people regardless of this then it would make us heartless people."
I tend to agree but when someone buys isk outside the game (ie not PLEX/GTC) then there IS a "victim".
That'd be CCP who provide an in-game mechanism to buy isk. They lose money on the "deal".
So we all know where we stand now - lovely
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:43:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: dexington That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex.
You can expect them to know that a GTC is not an in-game item.
Enough excuses in this thread TBH.
You serious believe that if a child ask his parents to buy a plex he can get some isk, that the parents just knows the difference between GTC and plex, and the one is a in-game item and one is not.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:47:00 -
[772]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: dexington That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex.
You can expect them to know that a GTC is not an in-game item.
Enough excuses in this thread TBH.
You serious believe that if a child ask his parents to buy a plex he can get some isk, that the parents just knows the difference between GTC and plex, and the one is a in-game item and one is not.
I think you'll find that if you allow a child to play on YOUR account, for you cannot legally open an account unless you are 18 years of age, then its entirely YOUR responsibility to ensure their behaviour conforms with the EULA.
Just like any other online game which requires payment.
Now really GTFO.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:48:00 -
[773]
Ok I give up...
If I would believe everything what is said in here, I prolly should;
1. Deny the existence of CCP and start paying my monthly subscribtion fee directly to certain inviduals posting to this thread. 2. Install 4 damage controls into my spaceship in case CCP exists after all. 3. Do what ever it takes to prove that I was unaware, underage, with insane parents, drunk and forced to do what I _didn't_ do and what others did.
Anyways... in the end this thread is about few scumbags who sold ingame items (including isk) to some inviduals in game, who now have to pay the price of their activities with those rmt elements.
You can have your opinnions about the leak and the source itself, but in the end it is between CCP and the involved parties to decide how they will be handled.
What comes to creditability of the information, I would say that EveNews would be rather doomed if it was forged. It is difficult to see why would they take such big risk, as they surely knew this will blow wide open and spread to most big newshubs also.
Would be nice to see some discussion about the problem itself. This shouldn't be topic where damage control has top priority.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:51:00 -
[774]
Originally by: Othran So we all know where we stand now - lovely
You are the player with the torch in his hand (WoW for you maybe?) selling people weak sauce to their internet space ships. This is where you stand. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.12 14:53:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Avon on 12/03/2011 14:53:35
Originally by: Whitehound
It does not matter what I think.
First sensible thing you have posted.
Retro sig |
dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:06:00 -
[776]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: dexington That's not what i said, i said that you can't always expect the person who understand the eula to also understand the difference between GTC and plex.
You can expect them to know that a GTC is not an in-game item.
Enough excuses in this thread TBH.
You serious believe that if a child ask his parents to buy a plex he can get some isk, that the parents just knows the difference between GTC and plex, and the one is a in-game item and one is not.
I think you'll find that if you allow a child to play on YOUR account, for you cannot legally open an account unless you are 18 years of age, then its entirely YOUR responsibility to ensure their behaviour conforms with the EULA.
Just like any other online game which requires payment.
Now really GTFO.
You clearly keep avoiding your originale statement, that all eula violations being deliberate. I'm not saying they are not accountable for their actions, just that you are wrong when you assume everyone deliberately did it to save a few dollars.
Seeing how you deliberately avoid the subject, and use every chance you get to steer the discussion in another direction i take it you know you are wrong but you are just not man enough to admit it.
Now GTFO or something....
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Janos Saal
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:12:00 -
[777]
Originally by: CCP Adida Trolling comment removed.
Hmm I dunno I can still see all of Whitehound's posts.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:13:00 -
[778]
Originally by: dexington Now GTFO or something....
They should make a Ferrari with this acronym.
Ferrari 328 GTS Ferrari 340 GT Ferrari 599 GTO ... Ferrari 9000 GTFO
--
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Grog Barrel
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:21:00 -
[779]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Do you think that cheaters should be punished?
Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law.
Calling BS, but for the sake of enlightenment, where come this from?
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:36:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Grog Barrel
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Do you think that cheaters should be punished?
Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law.
Calling BS, but for the sake of enlightenment, where come this from?
It is probably the defence he is going to try and use when he gets caught speeding in his Ferrari 9000 GTFO.
Retro sig |
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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:51:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Janos Saal
Originally by: CCP Adida Trolling comment removed.
Hmm I dunno I can still see all of Whitehound's posts.
It wasn't even a troll, it was about market bots /sigh.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 15:51:00 -
[782]
Originally by: Avon It is probably the defence he is going to try and use when he gets caught speeding in his Ferrari 9000 GTFO.
No. I just do not think that cheating should be punished. Speeding causes many deaths every year. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.12 16:12:00 -
[783]
Edited by: Avon on 12/03/2011 16:15:06
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon It is probably the defence he is going to try and use when he gets caught speeding in his Ferrari 9000 GTFO.
No. I just do not think that cheating should be punished.
Why gets to decide what forms of cheating are okay, you?
If I duped a couple of trillion ISK that would be okay?
Retro sig |
AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 16:17:00 -
[784]
Does anyone happen to have Chribba's '24 hours in high sec' or even the '7 days in high sec' on google docs, CSV or even Excel?
I'd like to view the list submitted here with that list to see if there is a correlation between the two using a simple relationship DB.
Thanks in advance.
AK EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 16:37:00 -
[785]
Edited by: Whitehound on 12/03/2011 16:37:30
Originally by: Avon Why gets to decide what forms of cheating are okay, you?
If I duped a couple of trillion ISK that would be okay?
It is not me who gets to decide it and you know it.
But for the sake of an argument ... if I had to decide it then the question would be how you "duped" it. The height is not important, but the how or what you did is. If you run lots of bots and use up CPU time on my valuable server hardware, that I have to maintain and pay bills for, so you can make a business with my machines, then I would give you a kick. --
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2011.03.12 16:44:00 -
[786]
Originally by: AlleyKat Does anyone happen to have Chribba's '24 hours in high sec' or even the '7 days in high sec' on google docs, CSV or even Excel?
I'd like to view the list submitted here with that list to see if there is a correlation between the two using a simple relationship DB.
Thanks in advance.
AK
24 hours - Linkage one week - http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1301898
/c
Secure 3rd party service | my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar' |
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Namira Incendie
Minmatar Valor Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.03.12 16:44:00 -
[787]
I just wanted to post to thank Whitehound for continuing his attempt at playing Devil's advocate in order to keep this topic on the front page for everyone to see.
Thank you. I understand the sacrifice you've made to your credibility, and I want you to know it's worth it.
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.12 16:57:00 -
[788]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Do you think CCP should investigate accusations of cheating?
You mean on this scale as we see now? No. It is just too much effort to go through a list of thousands of player names provided by an anonymous source. CCP already employs staff to fight off bots. This list will give CCP a lot of work and it may be that it is just one RMTer who tries to deflect from his bots by providing CCP with information on a competing RMTer.
the lists will lead to the bots as a good amount of income will come from them. you have to start somewhere, your point it moot, the list helps CCP in their hunt.
Quote:
Originally by: Avon Do you think that cheaters should be punished?
Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law.
the victim is CCP, that is money they could use to upgrade servers, hire new people, spend more on beer in pizza. your victim is them, your point is moot
Quote:
Originally by: Avon Dp you think that, in order to protect the integrity of the game, CCP should be able to choose any appropriate punishment, up to and including permanent account bans?
It does not matter what I think. CCP does ban people permanently afaik. This already answers your question.
you answered, and your points fell short. stop digging a bigger hole
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.12 17:16:00 -
[789]
Edited by: Whitehound on 12/03/2011 17:18:23
Originally by: Hecatonis the lists will lead to the bots as a good amount of income will come from them. you have to start somewhere, your point it moot, the list helps CCP in their hunt.
Wrong. CCP does not need "to start somewhere". They have already started, a long time ago and know how to find bots best. The question still is to whom's bots this list will lead should it actually lead somewhere. Might just be a dead trail that is going to keep CCP's staff chasing after a ghost. So CCP might as well just keep pursuing their own course. It is stupid to trust someone anonymous to do the job for you especially when it means a lot of extra work for you.
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP, that is money they could use to upgrade servers, hire new people, spend more on beer in pizza. your victim is them, your point is moot
Sure is CCP a victim, too, but if they start banning thousands of players, then they will also lose paying customers.
Are you then going to pay CCP the difference of lost subscriptions just so you can see a massive player ban? --
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 17:52:00 -
[790]
Edited by: Shaemell Buttleson on 12/03/2011 17:52:49
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Not understanding the rules is an ok excuse?
I'm gonna try that next time I get pulled over for something I'm not 100% legaly sure of. COOL!
I never said it was a excuse, i'm just saying that you can't assume that everyone deliberately broke the eula. The gut buying the titan knows what he is doing, but it's not impossible that someone just did'nt understand the difference between GTC and plex and ended you spending 10$ a RMT site.
Ban the account and next account said "mistaken" person opens won't have ISk from a RMT site. Problem solved!
EDIT
TBH if CCP did take a hard line with ppl buying off RMT sites I bet the problem would halve in weeks!
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 18:36:00 -
[791]
Edited by: dexington on 12/03/2011 18:37:04
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
TBH if CCP did take a hard line with ppl buying off RMT sites I bet the problem would halve in weeks!
It's very hard to say what effect it would have, but it would probably only be temporary. It would not have the same effect on new players, and with time it's likely that things would just return how it was.
Besides from a business point of view the isk buyers are the ideal subscriber, aslong as they just buy their isk using plex. Most of the poeple on that list are probably flaged as isk buyers now, the ones that CCP deside not to ban are more or less forced to buy all furture isk using plex. That does somewhat make them a cash cow when you know they are enclined to buy isk, and are forced to use plex.
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coolzero
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.03.12 18:41:00 -
[792]
im so fed up with the bots and the RMT that comes with it...
im a miner(well most of the time) and seeing more and more mining bots warping in the belt the whole day long.
over all those months i have yet to see any action done by CCP so im closing my 2 accounts down and check this forum from time to time if CCP starts acting, only then ill come back(and that doesnt mean temp ban on bots like in holy rage...i wanna see mass perma bans for botters.)
CCP advocated that they wanted to see more people/alliances and that sounds good to but its pretty much impossible for a small alliance that plays honest to do that if they are greated by bot alliances that has so much overpower due to the bots making them unlimited ammounts of isk.
Jack of all trades, master of none...
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.12 18:43:00 -
[793]
Originally by: Jon Taggart
At this point though, I believe Whitehound is trolling you guys as well for the past 15-20 pages.
I hope you're right Mr Alt #3. The alternative viewpoint may be in the majority though
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Blacksquirrel
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Posted - 2011.03.12 18:56:00 -
[794]
Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 12/03/2011 18:57:47 Edited by: Blacksquirrel on 12/03/2011 18:56:26 Cant believe people are really dropping this kinda cash... I get 30 or so buck here and there, but thousands of dollars?
Also to those who say money doesn't matter, War is two parts the fighting, and the logistics to keep you fighting.
Clearly the second is just as important as the first or else this wouldn't be a million dollar business. Dont be naive money matters.
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AlleyKat
Gallente The Unwanted.
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Posted - 2011.03.12 19:34:00 -
[795]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: AlleyKat Does anyone happen to have Chribba's '24 hours in high sec' or even the '7 days in high sec' on google docs, CSV or even Excel?
I'd like to view the list submitted here with that list to see if there is a correlation between the two using a simple relationship DB.
Thanks in advance.
AK
24 hours - Linkage one week - http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1301898
/c
/Bows
Thanks Chribba.
Interestingly, 19 names did match - but the quantity of times they spoke during the 7 days analysis is less than 10 times.
AK EVE-ONLINE Video-Making Tutorials Vid - New Tricks |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.03.12 20:15:00 -
[796]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: AlleyKat Does anyone happen to have Chribba's '24 hours in high sec' or even the '7 days in high sec' on google docs, CSV or even Excel?
I'd like to view the list submitted here with that list to see if there is a correlation between the two using a simple relationship DB.
Thanks in advance.
AK
24 hours - Linkage one week - http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1301898
/c
Wow. Who would even think to do something like this? It amazes me that I've been playing this game for 5 years-ish and still feel like such a nub on a frequent basis (that's either a testament to the depth of eve or my own cerebral limitations... my perspective precludes a conclusion). Nice work Cribba... I'm going over this and will think about how to apply information like this to a money making scheme.
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Jon Taggart
State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.03.12 21:14:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Othran I hope you're right Mr Alt #3. The alternative viewpoint may be in the majority though
I'm not an alt .
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000Hunter000
Gallente Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2011.03.13 00:58:00 -
[798]
If the list is true... then KILL EM ALL!!!
Then again, they could have given the RL monies to ccp and bought plex to sell ingame
These are the moments that do make me question if i should keep playing or not... (i just questioned it, the answer is no, and u cannot have my stuff) ________________________________________________
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GateScout
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Posted - 2011.03.13 01:02:00 -
[799]
Looks like microtransactions are going to be a huge success in this game. Can wait to see that get rolled out.
Yes. I'm serious.
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.13 02:16:00 -
[800]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 12/03/2011 19:49:11
Originally by: Hecatonis the lists will lead to the bots as a good amount of income will come from them. you have to start somewhere, your point it moot, the list helps CCP in their hunt.
Wrong. CCP does not need "to start somewhere". They have already started, a long time ago and know how to find bots best. The question still is to whose bots this list will lead should it actually lead somewhere. Might just be a dead trail that is going to keep CCP's staff chasing after a ghost. So CCP might as well just keep pursuing their own course. It is stupid to trust someone anonymous to do the job for you especially when it means a lot of extra work for you.
it is a safe guess that there are 1000's or transactions in eve every second, yes they need to start somewhere, since there are many bots and many transactions this will narrow who the major farmers are, so yes, you are still incorrect
Quote:
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP, that is money they could use to upgrade servers, hire new people, spend more on beer in pizza. your victim is them, your point is moot
Sure is CCP a victim, too, but if they start banning thousands of players, then they will also lose paying customers.
Are you then going to pay CCP the difference of lost subscriptions just so you can see a massive player ban?
you proved my point, you claimed it was a victimless crime
Originally by: Whitehound Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law.
now you fall back as contradict your own comment, i understand you are trying to troll, but you really need to be better at this.
since there is a victim, then here needs to be punishment, this is something we both agree on ( we both agree on it because you stated in the above post). this punishment is set out in the EULA they can remove the money, remove the items, and ban your account.
so you can stop your arm waving and fear mongering because you are just here to argue, so am i, but the different between us is. i am better at it then you.
troll on little brother, but remember, smarter people then yourself troll this forum.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 10:23:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Hecatonis it is a safe guess that there are 1000's or transactions in eve every second, yes they need to start somewhere, since there are many bots and many transactions this will narrow who the major farmers are, so yes, you are still incorrect
Wrong. CCP is going after bots even before you started playing EVE. You think they need you to show them where to start? You think that they do not know how and where to find them?
You are a noob with a hero affliction. Who is going to save us from you?
Originally by: Hecatonis you proved my point, you claimed it was a victimless crime
Wrong. I did not claim it to be victimless. I pointed out who the victims are. |
Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.13 18:06:00 -
[802]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis it is a safe guess that there are 1000's or transactions in eve every second, yes they need to start somewhere, since there are many bots and many transactions this will narrow who the major farmers are, so yes, you are still incorrect
Wrong. CCP is going after bots even before you started playing EVE. You think they need you to show them where to start? You think that they do not know how and where to find them?
well since i have been playing since shortly after beta, you might be correct, its a really close call if you ask me.
Quote: You are a noob with a hero affliction. Who is going to save us from you?
3rd post to me and you are at name calling. wow, your good at this. calling me a 'noob' doesn't invalidate my points, but it does shrink your epeen
Quote:
Originally by: Hecatonis you proved my point, you claimed it was a victimless crime
Wrong. I did not claim it to be victimless. I pointed out who the victims are.
Originally by: Whitehound Where there is no victim there is no crime. If no damage is being done and no victim can be found then no punishment shall occur, even when an act is against the law. If we would punish people regardless of this then it would make us heartless people. Now EVE is just a game and not the real world. Here it is even more important not to punish people too quickly. So generally no, cheaters should not be punished, but only the hardest cases.
this RMT site and the people that used it cost CCP over a quarter of a million dollars USD, if they wanted the isk they could have used that same money and bought a PLEX, that is a pretty hard case. and then yes, they need to be punished.
we all can tell that you are trying vainly to try to lay the ground work for your inevitable ban/ negative wallet, just so you can say "look now the took my money and i never bought any ever, its a witch hunt, CCP is evil, i told you all, i was right, bla bla bla bla bla wah" but its falling short.
your argument is flawed, you continually contradict yourself, and now you are resorting to name calling. your argument is lost, saddly you just fail to realize that.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 18:53:00 -
[803]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 18:56:40
Originally by: Hecatonis well since i have been playing since shortly after beta ...
Then prove it and post with your main.
Originally by: Hecatonis 3rd post to me and you are at name calling. wow, your good at this. calling me a 'noob' doesn't invalidate my points, but it does shrink your epeen
It is the truth, noob.
Originally by: Hecatonis you continually contradict yourself
You wish. Why do you not cry me a river, noob? --
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Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 19:01:00 -
[804]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 18:56:40
Originally by: Hecatonis well since i have been playing since shortly after beta ...
Then prove it and post with your main.
Originally by: Hecatonis 3rd post to me and you are at name calling. wow, your good at this. calling me a 'noob' doesn't invalidate my points, but it does shrink your epeen
It is the truth, noob.
Originally by: Hecatonis you continually contradict yourself
You wish. Why do you not cry me a river, noob?
my first toon is long gone. i have a running rule, play with one char, no more, no less. it keeps the game fresh.
since you failed to argue any of my points and preceded to become more childish i will consider this argument won, nice chatting with you.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 19:10:00 -
[805]
Originally by: Hecatonis my first toon is long gone. i have a running rule, play with one char, no more, no less. it keeps the game fresh.
So you have no proof but still want people to believe you are not a noob? This alone makes you a noob!
Originally by: Hecatonis since you failed to argue any of my points and preceded to become more childish i will consider this argument won, nice chatting with you.
No, you did not win or lose. You are dreaming a day dream. --
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Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 19:21:00 -
[806]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis my first toon is long gone. i have a running rule, play with one char, no more, no less. it keeps the game fresh.
So you have no proof but still want people to believe you are not a noob? This alone makes you a noob!
Originally by: Hecatonis since you failed to argue any of my points and preceded to become more childish i will consider this argument won, nice chatting with you.
No, you did not win or lose. You are dreaming a day dream.
it seems that you are only 7 months older to the game then me, this doesn't leave you in the bitter vet realm yet.
your argument was so paper thin that it only took me a handful of posts to lead you to name calling. you sir couldn't hold a point if it was taped to your hands.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 19:48:00 -
[807]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 19:48:39
Originally by: Hecatonis it seems that you are only 7 months older to the game then me, this doesn't leave you in the bitter vet realm yet.
No, it does not make me a vet, but it makes you a liar.
Tell me something interesting. How is the weather where you live? --
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Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:03:00 -
[808]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 19:48:39
Originally by: Hecatonis it seems that you are only 7 months older to the game then me, this doesn't leave you in the bitter vet realm yet.
No, it does not make me a vet, but it makes you a liar.
Tell me something interesting. How is the weather where you live?
you will have to explain how i am a liar?
its windy and over cast, how is yours?
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:14:00 -
[809]
Originally by: Hecatonis you will have to explain how i am a liar?
You said you are playing since the beta, then you said you are younger than me. This makes you a liar.
Originally by: Hecatonis its windy and over cast, how is yours?
It is night. |
Aeronwen Carys
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:35:00 -
[810]
So, Whitehound, now that it has been clearly established that not only are you a poor quality troll, but also an idiot and a purchaser of RMT ISK, please tell us just how much you are in for.
I'm going to guess at around 8-12 billion ISK and possibly some high end faction gear. There is even the possibilty that you purchased one or more characters using RMT ISK, or possibly just bought an entire account from an RMT site.
Anyone else want to hazzard a guess?
|
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PsychoBabe
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Posted - 2011.03.13 20:36:00 -
[811]
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP, that is money they could use to upgrade servers, hire new people, spend more on beer in pizza. your victim is them, your point is moot
Argument won right there... if CCP would indeed use any of these funds lost to RMTers on this ground breaking idea of beer in pizza they have my full support.
I can picture the betterment of all humankind if they can go ahead with this beer in pizza idea. It sounds like it isnt just CCP that is the victim here but us all.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 20:41:00 -
[812]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 20:45:56
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys So, Whitehound, now that it has been clearly established that not only are you a poor quality troll, but also an idiot and a purchaser of RMT ISK, please tell us just how much you are in for.
I'm going to guess at around 8-12 billion ISK and possibly some high end faction gear. There is even the possibilty that you purchased one or more characters using RMT ISK, or possibly just bought an entire account from an RMT site.
Anyone else want to hazzard a guess?
Oh, I am in deep, very very deep!
It is -498,066,317,331,342,161.34 ISK
If you want to believe it. --
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Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:42:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis you will have to explain how i am a liar?
You said you are playing since the beta, then you said you are younger than me. This makes you a liar.
Originally by: Hecatonis its windy and over cast, how is yours?
It is night.
ok, if its night where you are that means you are not in North America, i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that English is not your first language, believe me this is something you don't what to debate. reread my post where i admit to having a younger toon then you. and then you can come back and respond on how poor you are at arguing a point. because, you totally missed it.
PS...oooh my hot cross buns are done :)
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:50:00 -
[814]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 20:56:56
Originally by: PsychoBabe Argument won right there... if CCP would indeed use any of these funds lost to RMTers on this ground breaking idea of beer in pizza they have my full support.
No. It is about cheating and it is a principle that one does not punish when there is no victim. You only understand half of what is being written here. If you cheat then you it does not automatically need a punishment. This is the part you had to understand, but you failed.
--
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:54:00 -
[815]
Originally by: Hecatonis ok, if its night where you are that means you are not in North America, i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that English is not your first language, believe me this is something you don't what to debate. reread my post where i admit to having a younger toon then you. and then you can come back and respond on how poor you are at arguing a point. because, you totally missed it.
Still, it makes you a liar. Or does it not? --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.13 20:56:00 -
[816]
Edited by: Avon on 13/03/2011 20:56:58
Originally by: Whitehound It is about cheating and it is a principal that one does not punish when there is no victim.
You mean principle?
The principal is the boss of you in your school.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 20:57:00 -
[817]
Originally by: Avon You mean principle?
The principal is the boss of you in your school.
Thanks for pointing it out. I fixed it. --
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.13 21:00:00 -
[818]
Edited by: Hecatonis on 13/03/2011 21:01:19
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: PsychoBabe Argument won right there... if CCP would indeed use any of these funds lost to RMTers on this ground breaking idea of beer in pizza they have my full support.
No. It is about cheating and it is a principal that one does not punish when there is no victim. You only understand half of what is being written here. If you cheat then you it does not automatically need a punishment. This is the part you had to understand, but you failed.
Originally by: Whitehound's post translated wave arms wildly using the same flawed argument
the victim is CCP in lost revenue, the victim are the miners who get pushed out of the profession because they can compete with bots, the victims are the people who play the markets because the value of ISK drops when it is being flooded into the market. the victims are the players have have their CPU allocation used up by bots that bring nothing to the game other then cheep isk.
that money played by others could have played for almost 2700 other accounts through PLEX for ISK transfers.
ban 2700 bots, get that money to CCP instead and they still brake even. no doom and gloom about servers closing the game ending. all we would get is a player driven economy, more CPU power for real players, and a game with less bots.
this is why your argument is flawed, there is no down side. get over it. you lost.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis ok, if its night where you are that means you are not in North America, i am going to give you the benefit of the doubt that English is not your first language, believe me this is something you don't what to debate. reread my post where i admit to having a younger toon then you. and then you can come back and respond on how poor you are at arguing a point. because, you totally missed it.
Still, it makes you a liar. Or does it not?
it means i am not a liar. that is why i think you do not grasp English that well. read, learn, understand
edit: for a response
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:04:00 -
[819]
Originally by: Hecatonis
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: PsychoBabe Argument won right there... if CCP would indeed use any of these funds lost to RMTers on this ground breaking idea of beer in pizza they have my full support.
No. It is about cheating and it is a principal that one does not punish when there is no victim. You only understand half of what is being written here. If you cheat then you it does not automatically need a punishment. This is the part you had to understand, but you failed.
Originally by: Whitehound's post translated wave arms wildly using the same flawed argument
the victim is CCP in lost revenue, the victim are the miners who get pushed out of the profession because they can compete with bots, the victims are the people who play the markets because the value of ISK drops when it is being flooded into the market. the victims are the players have have their CPU allocation used up by bots that bring nothing to the game other then cheep isk.
that money played by others could have played for almost 2700 other accounts through PLEX for ISK transfers.
ban 2700 bots, get that money to CCP instead and they still brake even. no doom and gloom about servers closing the game ending. all we would get is a player driven economy, more CPU power for real players, and a game with less bots.
this is why your argument is flawed, there is no down side. get over it. you lost.
He has already agreed that people can be punished where there is no victim, as in speeding tickets being issued even if there is no other offence, because it acts as a deterrent. He has also conceded that CCP are a victim of RMT.
The guy is running circles around himself - it's funny.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:08:00 -
[820]
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP in lost revenue, the victim are the miners who get pushed out of the profession because they can compete with bots, the victims are the people who play the markets because the value of ISK drops when it is being flooded into the market. the victims are the players have have their CPU allocation used up by bots that bring nothing to the game other then cheep isk.
No. To lose it you first need to posses it.
You can speculate that those who bought it with someone else other than CCP may have bought it with CCP instead, but a speculation does not make CCP a victim.
Originally by: Hecatonis it means i am not a liar. that is why i think you do not grasp English that well. read, learn, understand
You are a liar. You now keep on lying. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 21:10:00 -
[821]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 21:13:00
Originally by: Avon He has already agreed that people can be punished where there is no victim, as in speeding tickets being issued even if there is no other offence, because it acts as a deterrent. He has also conceded that CCP are a victim of RMT.
The guy is running circles around himself - it's funny.
No. Speeding tickets are not a punishment but a fine. Speeding kills every year and it kills so many that the governments take fines for speeding as a pre-emptive measure. You do not really want to start an argument over speeding by saying that it has no victims.
You are the dumbass in the Ferrari 9000 GTFO who tries to talk himself out of a fine, because he thinks it is a punishment. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:20:00 -
[822]
Edited by: Avon on 13/03/2011 21:21:02
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon He has already agreed that people can be punished where there is no victim, as in speeding tickets being issued even if there is no other offence, because it acts as a deterrent. He has also conceded that CCP are a victim of RMT.
The guy is running circles around himself - it's funny.
No. Speeding tickets are not a punishment but a fine. Speeding kills every year and it kills so many that the governments take fines for speeding as a pre-emptive measurement. You do not really want to start an argument over speeding by saying that it has no victims.
If I do 40mph in a 30mph zone in the UK I get a fixed penalty fine and points added to my licence. It is a criminal offence.
Speeding doesn't in itself kill anyone. Motorways which have a 70mph speed limit have less fatal accidents than 40mph zones in the UK. Airliners, which are 10x faster than cars have even less fatalities.
If I do 100mph up a crowded motorway I may well cause an accident. If I do 100mph up an empty motorway at 3am I am very unlikely to have an accident.
In both cases I would lose my driving licence for my criminal behavior.
Victim or not I am punished for the crime.
Your "everyone is punished because of the potential risk" is *exactly* why people who buy ISK should be banned; to protect "society" from the possible negative impact of their "illegal" actions. Just like the government decides what speed limits it feels are appropriate, so CCP decide what rules they consider appropriate.
I agree with you that deterrence is a wonderful thing, and I am glad you have at last come around to agreeing that CCP should use it to fight RMT.
Retro sig |
Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:21:00 -
[823]
Edited by: Hecatonis on 13/03/2011 21:22:28
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP in lost revenue, the victim are the miners who get pushed out of the profession because they can compete with bots, the victims are the people who play the markets because the value of ISK drops when it is being flooded into the market. the victims are the players have have their CPU allocation used up by bots that bring nothing to the game other then cheep isk.
No. To lose it you first need to posses it.
You can speculate that those who bought it with someone else other than CCP may have bought it with CCP instead, but a speculation does not make CCP a victim.
Originally by: from the EULA 6th paragraph
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.
this means that this game is protected under international law, if you know anything about it, income gained in violation of inter-nation copyright law is considered income lost to the copyright holder.
let me dumb that down for you, you get come from playing eve that money is considered stolen by even regardless of how the transaction occurred or through what hands it passed. that money was stolen from CCP. therefor they are a victim.
ignoring all that there are still victims form the player base, i noticed that you skipped over that point. so, your argument is still invalid.
Whitehound, i understand that this must be hard for you, but its ok to know that people are better at this then you.
edit: fixed formatting error
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:33:00 -
[824]
Originally by: Whitehound No. To lose it you first need to posses it.
No you don't.
Quote: No. Speeding tickets are not a punishment but a fine.
A fine is a punishment.
That's two more words we can add to the list of things you don't know the full meaning of, alongside "passive".
OH, and good to see you're still falling back on ad hominems when you can't formulate a cohesive argument. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:35:00 -
[825]
Originally by: Avon If I do 40mph in a 30mph zone in the UK I get a fixed penalty fine and points added to my licence. It is a criminal offence.
If it was a criminal offence then you would get arrested, brought in front of a court and punished.
Losing your driving license is then not a punishment either, because the license is a government paper and it is not your property. You are only the license holder and they take back what is theirs. --
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.03.13 21:37:00 -
[826]
/me wonders why so many 'vets' are feeding trolls. When you feed trolls... they get bigger.
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Czech Lion
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Posted - 2011.03.13 21:41:00 -
[827]
Its always better to see than be in the dark and think everything is fine :)
Lapham and riverini did a great job and this is exactly what kind of stuff i wanted to see when i created EN24.
//////////////////////////////////////////////// www.evenews24.com 0.0 Politics/news/wars/gossip msn/email [email protected] |
Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:41:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Gogela /me wonders why so many 'vets' are feeding trolls. When you feed trolls... they get bigger.
your missing one thing kind sir, we are not feeding the trolls, we are trolling them. as you can see whitehound's comments are getting more silly and he is looking more like the town idiot by the minute.
who do you think is trolling and who do you think is being baiting?
avon, he is side tracking you, don't let him do it
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:44:00 -
[829]
Originally by: Hecatonis
Originally by: from the EULA 6th paragraph
Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities. Business entities and anyone who is acting for or on behalf of a business or for business purposes may not establish an Account, access the System or play EVE. Accessing the System or using the Game for commercial, business or income-seeking purposes is strictly prohibited.
this means ... blah blah blah
And you think I did not read that part of the EULA or why do you quote it?
EveNews24 presented a list of players who supposedly have bought ISKs and PLEX from in illegitimate reseller. We are not questioning here if RMT is allowed or not. I already pointed out that RMTs who run bots on CCPs machines use CCP's hardware to make a business and that CCP has to pay for the hardware.
If I may ask, what is your problem? You do not have one it seems, you just think I am an RMT and that I am trying to defend my business or something? --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:47:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon
It is a criminal offence.
If it was a criminal offence then you would get arrested, brought in front of a court and punished.
That can happen. The police have to right to offer a fixed penalty notice in order to avoid the case going to court, but they don't have to; and you can reject the notice and have your day in court if you so wish.
Retro sig |
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:49:00 -
[831]
Having HD feed from EVE fanfest 2011 - 350 million isk. Having 5 alternative accounts for 3 months - 5.25 billion isk. Moving 74 pilot licence extensions in a frigate - 22 billion isk (!).
Having forum PvP with Whitehound - priceless!
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:50:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Whitehound If I may ask, what is your problem?
That you are white-knighting cheaters and argue that they don't need to be punished.
Quote: you just think I am an RMT and that I am trying to defend my business or something?
Why else would you not want to see cheaters punished? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:50:00 -
[833]
Originally by: Czech Lion Its always better to see than be in the dark and think everything is fine :)
GTFO. You work together with RMTs. Now you want to tell everyone it is always better to disclose everything? Would you also disclose how CCP fights RMTs so you can print it, too? --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 21:53:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Avon That can happen. The police have to right to offer a fixed penalty notice in order to avoid the case going to court, but they don't have to; and you can reject the notice and have your day in court if you so wish.
However, not paying a fine for speeding is not the same as speeding.
There is so much to consider. I know why people love lynch mobs, they are soo much easier.
--
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 21:58:00 -
[835]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon That can happen. The police have to right to offer a fixed penalty notice in order to avoid the case going to court, but they don't have to; and you can reject the notice and have your day in court if you so wish.
However, not paying a fine for speeding is not the same as speeding.
There is so much to consider. I know why people love lynch mobs, they are soo much easier.
Part VI of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. Section 89(1) of that Act: "A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence."
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 22:03:00 -
[836]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 22:04:40
Originally by: Avon Part VI of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. Section 89(1) of that Act: "A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence."
It does not say that this person shall be punished, does it?
Does it say what kind of an offence it is? Is it a criminal or a civil offence? Do you know? --
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Hecatonis
Amarr
|
Posted - 2011.03.13 22:05:00 -
[837]
Originally by: Whitehound
If I may ask, what is your problem? You do not have one it seems, you just think I am an RMT and that I am trying to defend my business or something?
wow, your English is poor. if you want me to stat my problem front to back then i will
RMT use bandwidth that cannot be used on my activities, it also creates market and player disruptions that makes this game less robust.
people that use RMT have an unfair advantage, not because they buy isk with real money, everyone can do that using PLEXs, but because they can buy it at a discounted rate through a services that are not allowed as stated but the EULA.
also it hurts the company that runs my favorite game and in doing so limits their ability to bring me more of the stuff i like.
that is my problem.
do i think you run a RMT site? from our conversation you have shown yourself lacking brains to pull it off. i am sure you have used the service though, because eve requires a basic level of smarts to play well, and since you have already claimed to be well off then i am sure you needed every advantage you could find.
i am also sure you are trying to create a case for the inevitable repercussions of your actions. when you try and pass it off as some grudge from CCP.
explained enough?
PS your arguments are still flawed and incorrect.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:05:00 -
[838]
Cheaters like whitehound need to be biomassed asap. This is not a victimless crime, all non-cheaters are victims of botters and their vile customers.
If not biomassed, then having unremoveable implants that disfigure them and make them train slower would be awesome and a good compromise. If only CCP had the vision and integrity to make it happen.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:08:00 -
[839]
Originally by: Hecatonis wow, your English is poor.
This is what you love the most about me!
Originally by: Hecatonis PS your arguments are still flawed and incorrect.
Cry me a river. --
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:11:00 -
[840]
Edited by: Gogela on 13/03/2011 22:11:55
Originally by: Hecatonis people that use RMT have an unfair advantage, not because they buy isk with real money, everyone can do that using PLEXs, but because they can buy it at a discounted rate through a services that are not allowed as stated but the EULA.
also it hurts the company that runs my favorite game and in doing so limits their ability to bring me more of the stuff i like.
This ^
~fin
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:19:00 -
[841]
Edited by: Hecatonis on 13/03/2011 22:21:59
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis wow, your English is poor.
This is what you love the most about me!
Originally by: Hecatonis PS your arguments are still flawed and incorrect.
Cry me a river.
na, what i like most about you is the inevitable merc contract on your corp played for by selling PLEXs
;)
edit: the above statment was a joke, i would never sell PLEXs just to hire mercs. its not worth wasting real cash on.
now in game ISK that was made with hard work and smart planning, thats a different story
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Envoy Achates
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:27:00 -
[842]
Originally by: Hecatonis Edited by: Hecatonis on 13/03/2011 22:21:59
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis wow, your English is poor.
This is what you love the most about me!
Originally by: Hecatonis PS your arguments are still flawed and incorrect.
Cry me a river.
na, what i like most about you is the inevitable merc contract on your corp played for by selling PLEXs
;)
edit: the above statment was a joke, i would never sell PLEXs just to hire mercs. its not worth wasting real cash on.
now in game ISK that was made with hard work and smart planning, thats a different story
Did someone start a fund already? Sign me up.
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AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd Ferguson Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:33:00 -
[843]
And it has NOTHING to do with hurting CCP. They're a fail company that stopped supporting EVE a long time ago.
It has to do with encouraging gameplay that makes everybody else's gameplay (i.e. the non-cheaters) less meaningful. If there were no customers, there would be no RMTers and if there were no RMTers, there would be (almost) no botters. If there were no botters, my gameplay would be enhanced exponentially because the ISK I generate or the ore I mine would be that much more valuable in-game.
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:34:00 -
[844]
Edited by: Avon on 13/03/2011 22:36:44
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 22:04:40
Originally by: Avon Part VI of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. Section 89(1) of that Act: "A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence."
It does not say that this person shall be punished, does it?
Does it say what kind of an offence it is? Is it a criminal or a civil offence? Do you know?
Punishments for offences under the Road Traffic Act are prescribed in the Road Traffic Offenders Act (and they are referred to as punishments).
A prosecution under the Road Traffic Act would result in a criminal conviction. Acceptance of a fixed penalty notice is an admission of guilt and acceptance of the punishment, but avoids a criminal conviction (you have still broken the law, they just aren't going to prosecute you for it - if you think you are innocent you have to go to court. If you lose you get a criminal conviction*).
*As speeding is a non-reportable offence it is not added to your criminal record and do not need to declare the conviction; except where full disclosure is required by law (applying for a job with children for example).
So yes, in the UK speeding is a criminal act which you will be punished for (victim or not).
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:45:00 -
[845]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 22:46:32
Originally by: Avon So yes, in the UK speeding is a criminal act which you will be punished for (victim or not).
I am pretty sure speeding has got its victims.
I am not so sure about EVE players who like to call themselves "victims", because someone else bought his or her PLEX at the wrong site.
And, no, it does not mean that I bought a PLEX at the wrong site. I pay my subscription to CCP through my bank account. Even when I have more than enough ISKs to buy me PLEX for 2-3 years. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:56:00 -
[846]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 22:46:32
Originally by: Avon So yes, in the UK speeding is a criminal act which you will be punished for (victim or not).
I am pretty sure speeding has got its victims.
We've been over this. Speeding can have victims, but punishment is given victim or not.
The punishment is a deterrent. If speeding has hard enough consequences less people will do it, meaning less potential victims.
If people knew that not only could they be banned for using RMT sites, but that banning was the most likely punishment, it would act as a better deterrent than your "they didn't hurt anyone, leave them alone" stance.
And anyway, in the same way that you said losing your driving licence is not a punishment, someone losing their account wouldn't be a punishment either, would it? Afterall, everything belongs to CCP, right?
You can't have it both ways.
Retro sig |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.13 22:57:00 -
[847]
Originally by: AkJon Ferguson And it has NOTHING to do with hurting CCP. They're a fail company that stopped supporting EVE a long time ago.
Giving us new forums check. Giving us a way to mail our corps and alliances out of game check. Doing 2 massive hardware upgrades within 18 months and a full server move to improve service check. GM's and Devs working on weekends to keep servers up and find problems check Rockets fixed check Continuously making new content check Listening to players and breaking up massive expansions into smaller portions and making them more fixes than new stuff Check.
Confirming CCP doesn't like eve and AKJon Ferguson is just a Troll.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 23:04:00 -
[848]
Originally by: Avon We've been over this. Speeding can have victims, but punishment is given victim or not.
No. You tried to use speeding as an example for an act that does not have victims, and this is where you are wrong. You picked the example, not me. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.13 23:06:00 -
[849]
Edited by: Avon on 13/03/2011 23:06:18
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon We've been over this. Speeding can have victims, but punishment is given victim or not.
No. You tried to use speeding as an example for an act that does not have victims, and this is where you are wrong. You picked the example, not me.
Not at all.
I gave examples of when speeding has no victims - I suggest you re-read the post and try to take it in.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 23:13:00 -
[850]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 23:15:31
Originally by: Avon Not at all.
I gave examples of when speeding has no victims - I suggest you re-read the post and try to take it in.
I still have it in good memory. You even joked about how I would try to talk myself out of a ticket for speeding in my Ferrari 9000 GTFO.
Are you now going to tell me that the people who supposedly bought from an illegitimate source are killing people on the streets? --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.13 23:19:00 -
[851]
Originally by: Whitehound
Are you now going to tell me that the people who supposedly bought from illegitimate source are killing people in the streets?
Of course not. They are doing it in space.
Are you saying that the only crimes that should be punished are ones where people get killed in the streets? Is that what you think? Really?
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.13 23:32:00 -
[852]
Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 23:36:04
Originally by: Avon Are you saying that the only crimes that should be punished are ones where people get killed in the streets? Is that what you think? Really?
No, it is not what I think. It is only not as simple as you might think it is to determine when someone is a victim, an offender and when someone should be punished. The people have bought ISKs, PLEX, etc., but only to play EVE. It is not like they could use the ISKs to play WoW and CCP wants these people to play their game. It is different with bots that are being used to make real money with CCP's hardware and who do not care what MMO it is they are running their bots on. So you cannot just throw all in one bag or put them all onto one large list and publish it only to mark them as guilty or to punish them. --
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 00:13:00 -
[853]
This thread is the best thing to happen to the gd in ages. So much hilarity.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.03.14 00:57:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Gogela /me wonders why so many 'vets' are feeding trolls. When you feed trolls... they get bigger.
It's not a troll, it's a guy trying desperately to protect his paycheck.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 02:28:00 -
[855]
To everyone saying buying ISK with PLEX is no better, there is one significant difference.
When you buy ISK with PLEX, some other player gets to play for free.
When you buy ISK from farmers, the only person who wins is the farmer. |
Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Cloakers
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Posted - 2011.03.14 04:33:00 -
[856]
Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 14/03/2011 04:35:54 CCP is the victim. 1) people are buying isk instead of plex 2) someone is selling isk, which is rightfully CCPs property 3) loss of reputation
1. Loss of income 2. Theft of CCPs digital property 3. Loss of reputation
Which begs the question, why isn't CCP suing iskbank?
--------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU. |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 04:55:00 -
[857]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona Which begs the question, why isn't CCP suing iskbank?
Because its extremely hard to sue a couple of guys with laptops that bounce from low rent hole in the wall to low rent hole in the wall playing rl corp hopping to avoid the warde..err legal charges.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 05:26:00 -
[858]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
1. Loss of income 2. Theft of CCPs digital property 3. Loss of reputation
Which begs the question, why isn't CCP suing iskbank?
Not many cases have been won if the only wrong doing was breaking the eula, and i don't think any of the points you make hold up in court unless they are found guilty in breaking the eula.
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Katarlia Simov
Minmatar Cowboys From Hell
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Posted - 2011.03.14 07:04:00 -
[859]
Edited by: Katarlia Simov on 14/03/2011 07:06:18
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
1. Loss of income 2. Theft of CCPs digital property 3. Loss of reputation
Which begs the question, why isn't CCP suing iskbank?
Not many cases have been won if the only wrong doing was breaking the eula, and i don't think any of the points you make hold up in court unless they are found guilty in breaking the eula.
It depends on local law of course, however, I think I'm right in saying that RMTing is a civil matter, and would probably have to be perused under copyright laws. You can ONLY buy isk from CCP, and while you own it (in the sense that you can use it for whatever) you do not have the right to sell it on for RL money. Functionally, it bears the most resemblance to selling music/movies that you don't own the rights to. When you buy (for example) tracks off iTunes, you don't then have the right to sell them. RMTers didn't download illegally (or 'steal' as copyright troll say) it as dvd pirates do but still CCP alone has the right to sell it.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 07:36:00 -
[860]
What's the point in arguing with the troll?
He's already made false accusations, called people liars, called them cheaters, noobs, idiots, etc etc.
One wonders precisely what the moderators are playing at.
No matter, what goes around comes around.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 08:09:00 -
[861]
I see Whitehound is still trying to defend the right to buy isk from ex-soviet countries.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 08:13:00 -
[862]
Originally by: Katarlia Simov It depends on local law of course, however, I think I'm right in saying that RMTing is a civil matter, and would probably have to be perused under copyright laws. You can ONLY buy isk from CCP, and while you own it (in the sense that you can use it for whatever) you do not have the right to sell it on for RL money. Functionally, it bears the most resemblance to selling music/movies that you don't own the rights to. When you buy (for example) tracks off iTunes, you don't then have the right to sell them. RMTers didn't download illegally (or 'steal' as copyright troll say) it as dvd pirates do but still CCP alone has the right to sell it.
Not all countries have laws like the DMCA, which make it alot harder to win cases like this in europe and almost impossible in most other parts of the world. It's the eula that says you are not allowed to sell isk and items, i don't think you are doing any copyright violation by selling isk. If all you have to back up your claim of wrong doing is the eula, it's not always easy to win a case in court. The eula gives the company the legal right to control accounts, but it's not all that strong when tested in court of law.
Im sure that if there was a good chance af winning the case, more companies would be suing RMT sites and using the victories as scare tactics.
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 08:13:00 -
[863]
Originally by: Othran What's the point in arguing with the troll?
He's already made false accusations, called people liars, called them cheaters, noobs, idiots, etc etc.
One wonders precisely what the moderators are playing at.
No matter, what goes around comes around.
As someone has already pointed out, who exactly is getting trolled? Pretty much everyone here is just trolling whitehound now as it has become increasingly obvious that he is deficient in certain key intellectual areas. The only slightly sad thing is that he believes he is still in control of the argument.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.14 08:44:00 -
[864]
Evenews24.com article - Iskbank.com: The Vadim Interview http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/14/iskbank-com-the-vadim-interview/
Evenews24.com article - Iskbank.com Exposed: CSM Candidates Respond http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/14/iskbank-com-exposed-csm-candidates-respond/
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 09:07:00 -
[865]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow Evenews24.com article - Iskbank.com: The Vadim Interview http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/14/iskbank-com-the-vadim-interview/
Evenews24.com article - Iskbank.com Exposed: CSM Candidates Respond http://www.evenews24.com/2011/03/14/iskbank-com-exposed-csm-candidates-respond/
Good read, lets hope eve news keeps up the dispatchers/panorama reporting the have going on at the moment.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:18:00 -
[866]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:24:19
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys The only slightly sad thing is that he believes he is still in control of the argument.
And right so.
Now more bits and pieces come to light, like who hacked whom. Seems more likely than ever that it is one RMTer trying to get rid of another and making everyone a tool.
Do you never ask yourself why EveNews24 is getting all the inside information from the RMTs and why they not get much of CCP? I mean look at the IskBank guy. He asks EveNews24 not to disclose the list, but EveNews24 says no. And he still gives them an interview? Come on, I beg you, who wants to be that naive? --
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:24:00 -
[867]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:20:43
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys The only slightly sad thing is that he believes he is still in control of the argument.
And right so.
Now more bits and pieces come to light, like who hacked whom. Seems more likely than ever that it is one RMTer trying to get rid of another and making everyone a tool.
Do you never ask yourself why EveNews24 is getting all the inside information from the RMTs and why they not get much of CCP?
Because CCP dont make comments on active investigations while the RMTer is in full damage control mode?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:25:00 -
[868]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:26:50
Originally by: baltec1 Because CCP dont make comments on active investigations while the RMTer is in full damage control mode?
No. CCP never gives out much information in the first place, not only when EveNews24 comes up with another story.
And the guy still giving an interview when he asks EveNews24 not to disclose his customers? --
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:32:00 -
[869]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:26:50
Originally by: baltec1 Because CCP dont make comments on active investigations while the RMTer is in full damage control mode?
No. CCP never gives out much information in the first place, not only when EveNews24 comes up with another story.
And the guy still giving an interview when he asks EveNews24 not to disclose his customers?
Inteview seems to have been done a while ago and maby before the list was brought out going by was has been said before todays posting.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:47:00 -
[870]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:47:58
Originally by: baltec1 Inteview seems to have been done a while ago and maby before the list was brought out going by was has been said before todays posting.
Is this your best explanation? The article says that they agreed to disagree, so the guy knew they were disclosing the list. So why did he give them a 3 hour interview?
They are all working together. --
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 10:53:00 -
[871]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 10:47:58
Originally by: baltec1 Inteview seems to have been done a while ago and maby before the list was brought out going by was has been said before todays posting.
Is this your best explanation? The article says that they agreed to disagree, so the guy knew they were disclosing the list. So why did he give them a 3 hour interview?
They are all working together.
Same reason why MPs gave interviews while the MP expences scandal was going on. The want to at least try to save face and will continue to do so right up untill they are jailed.
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The Old Chap
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:02:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Hecatonis the victim is CCP in lost revenue, the victim are the miners who get pushed out of the profession because they can compete with bots, the victims are the people who play the markets because the value of ISK drops when it is being flooded into the market. the victims are the players have have their CPU allocation used up by bots that bring nothing to the game other then cheep isk.
No. To lose it you first need to posses it.
Physical possession is immaterial in this case. If you are denied access to something that would have been there if others hadn't 'cheated' to take for themselves, that is an offence too.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:09:00 -
[873]
Originally by: baltec1 Same reason why MPs gave interviews while the MP expences scandal was going on. The want to at least try to save face and will continue to do so right up untill they are jailed.
This is not the MPs here. These are RMTs and they know what they are doing is not allowed. What face is it they want to save?
--
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:25:00 -
[874]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 11:32:42
Originally by: The Old Chap Physical possession is immaterial in this case. If you are denied access to something that would have been there if others hadn't 'cheated' to take for themselves, that is an offence too.
You are speculating that it would have gone to CCP instead, but you do not know that.
It is greed, which makes people think to have lost money that they have never possessed in the first place.
CCP only losses money when they have to spend it on extra hardware and maintenance just so others can run bots on their machines. That money is lost. Hiring staff only to go after bots is lost money, too. --
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Brannor McThife
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:38:00 -
[875]
Came back after 10 pages, and see that Whitehound is still running for president...
-G
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Rykuss
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Posted - 2011.03.14 11:43:00 -
[876]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Came back after 10 pages, and see that Whitehound is still running for president...
-G
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Nina Mercedez
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Posted - 2011.03.14 12:36:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Brannor McThife Came back after 10 pages, and see that Whitehound is still running for president...
-G
It's almost as if he's (a CCP employee? There's a conspiracy theory for ya) trying to get the thread locked.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.03.14 12:45:00 -
[878]
If I was CCP, then I would perform a background check on every correspondent to this thread for possible RMT dealings. Similar to how guilty parties seem to return to the scene of the crime while mingling with the public in hopes that law enforcement will pass over them as but curious onlookers, this thread is raging onward and going in circles.
Hell, they can start with my account - I have nothing to hide.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 12:54:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 Same reason why MPs gave interviews while the MP expences scandal was going on. The want to at least try to save face and will continue to do so right up untill they are jailed.
This is not the MPs here. These are RMTs and they know what they are doing is not allowed. What face is it they want to save?
The MPs also knew what they were doing was wrong. Its exactly the same, both knew it is wrong, both said they did nothing wrong, both defend what they did and both are found to be cheating little arsewipes who screw everyone else up.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 13:55:00 -
[880]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 13/03/2011 20:59:03
Originally by: PsychoBabe Argument won right there... if CCP would indeed use any of these funds lost to RMTers on this ground breaking idea of beer in pizza they have my full support.
No. It is about cheating and it is a principle that one does not punish when there is no victim. You only understand half of what is being written here. If you cheat then it does not automatically need a punishment. This is the part you had to understand, but you failed.
RMT is victimless?
Consider this:
Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
Therefore, when RMT companies sell botted-ISK everyone is a victim.
Also, if you buy ISK (matter how that ISK was originally produced) you're gaining an advantage. That means that everyone else is at a disdvantage. Again, there are your victims.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:24:00 -
[881]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
I believed that isk farmers would make a higher then normal supply of mining materials, and would'nt lower ore prices just mean lower prices on most manufactured goods?
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:25:00 -
[882]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Rodj Blake Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
I believed that isk farmers would make a higher then normal supply of mining materials, and would'nt lower ore prices just mean lower prices on most manufactured goods?
Doesn't a lot of botting involve shooting NPCs or doing courier missions though?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:33:00 -
[883]
Originally by: baltec1 The MPs also knew what they were doing was wrong. Its exactly the same, both knew it is wrong, both said they did nothing wrong, both defend what they did and both are found to be cheating little arsewipes who screw everyone else up.
Nonsense. You are just saying "all MPs are criminals". While this may be a popular opinion do these people actually believe that they are doing the right thing for the people. Many of them have done good work or else they would not have come into being MPs. You want to put RMTs on the same level as MPs? Good luck with that.
EN24 wrote about bots, how they work, how RMTs hide their transactions, they provided their readers with links to the bots, to the RMTs who use them, and everything else one needs to know about running bots. What was the purpose of this?
Most bots and macros are not run by RMTs is what I am guessing. By giving EVE players all the information they need to run them are EN24 helping their RMT friends to hide in the masses of bots and macros run by ordinary players.
Now EN24 comes with a list of player names. Again, to what purpose?
The information is useless unless CCP takes their time to take a look at it. And if they do what shall CCP do with a list of player names who just want to play EVE? Ban them all? I do not doubt that something interesting could be found by going through all the transactions of these players, but there are better methods to find bots. All EN24 will have done is to make CCP's job harder and not easier.
So either EN24 is a bunch of fools at best, or worse, are they working together with some RMTs to distract from their activities. --
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ed jeni
SKULLDOGS RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:42:00 -
[884]
Edited by: ed jeni on 14/03/2011 14:45:14 ISK is a medium of exchange accepted by the community, meaning it's what people buy things with and sell things for. ISK provides a standard for measuring value, so that the worth of different goods and services can be compared. And lastly, ISK is a store of value that can be saved for later purchases.
ISK is relatively scarceùon purposeùand that's just what makes it valuable. You as an individual want to earn as much as you can, of course. But the EVE economy can actually have too much ISK. When the amount of ISK circulating grows faster than the rate at which goods and services are produced, the result is inflation. Say you want a Raven, for example. Last year, they cost 60mil, but this year an identical ship costs 100mil. If prices of most other goods have also risen, then you are probably dealing with inflationùtoo much ISK chasing too few goods. Prices have inflated and your 60mil buys less than it did. You must earn more just to stay even.
The tricky part of monetary policy within EVE is making sure there is enough ISK in the economy, but not too much. When people have the ISK to demand more shiny objects than the economy can supply, prices go up and the resulting inflation hurts everyone.
The trillions of ISK currently pouring into the economy comes not from careful planning or changes in game mechanics, it comes solely from a huge amount of computer controlled bots earning enormous sums of ISK without player input 23/7. This is a factor that CCP have been watching climb and climb over the last few years and have frankly done little to prohibit or control.
Basically stop the BotÆs and at a stroke you virtually cut of the supply of ISK to the major RMT operations and stabilize the economy, reduce ship/module inflation and gain some much lost faith by the player base. Of course stopping the BOT progs from working is the Trillion ISK question, Punkbuster type programmes really wonÆt solve it as most BOT software uses X/Y co-ordinates and character recognition to enable them to work so are not part of the client code.
The best solution as I see it (certainly in 0.0) is to delay local, (yeah that old argument again), we have all seen Bot fleets immediately warp to pos/station as soon as local changes making them virtually impossible targets for the average roam to target, however if local was delayed then players would at least be able to police the systems they visit with the bonus of kills and added danger. Of course CCP wont be specific about their thoughts on possible solutions, but come on guys this is not a new phenomenon and has been going on for years till it has now become a major issue for honest players and still we get the same old PR rhetoric, stop being part of the problem and begin convincing us that you might have a way to reduce this major problem.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:44:00 -
[885]
Originally by: Whitehound
The information is useless unless CCP takes their time to take a look at it.
Which implies that the information is useful if CCP does take a look at it.
Quote: And if they do what shall CCP do with a list of player names who just want to play EVE?Ban them all?
You seem to be confusing "just wanting to play Eve" with "violating the EULA." And yes, if someone has violated the EULA by buying ISK from a third-party with RL cash then they should be banned.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:46:00 -
[886]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Consider this:
Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
What stops you from mining asteroids and selling your own products in order to make use of the higher prices? Is this not what you already do? And player who shoot your ships cause you damage, too. Are they making you a victim and shall be banned, too?
You are thinking too much inside the sandbox. Instead, realise that it is not about the sandbox, but about making a business over CCP's business, which is causing them costs in return. --
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Matari Legion
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:47:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Rodj Blake
You seem to be confusing "just wanting to play Eve" with "violating the EULA." And yes, if someone has violated the EULA by buying ISK from a third-party with RL cash then they should be banned.
That's all that needs to be said, all the rest is trolls and people feeding the trolls.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 14:51:00 -
[888]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake Consider this:
Botting deforms the economy by increasing the money-supply. This in turn makes prices higher, meaning that everyone has to spend more effort acquiring goods.
What stops you from mining asteroids and selling your own products in order to make use of the higher prices? Is this not what you already do? And player who shoot your ships cause you damage, too. Are they making you a victim and shall be banned, too?
You are thinking too much inside the sandbox. Instead, realise that it is not about the sandbox, but about making a business over CCP's business, which is causing them costs in return.
The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:01:00 -
[889]
Originally by: ed jeni Say you want a Raven, for example. Last year, they cost 60mil, but this year an identical ship costs 100mil. If prices of most other goods have also risen, then you are probably dealing with inflationùtoo much ISK chasing too few goods. Prices have inflated and your 60mil buys less than it did. You must earn more just to stay even.
I looked at the QEN and the trend is that ship prices are decreasing, i did'nt see prices on the raven but if it's increasing it's the exception not the rule.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:10:00 -
[890]
Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:14:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Whitehound This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned.
Yes it does.
Push button, receive bacon Break EULA, receive ban. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Pesky LaRue
Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels Etherium Cartel
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:33:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned.
Yes, it does. They broke the EULA, they should get banned. .
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:46:00 -
[893]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake The difference is that when I mine, rat or run missions I do so according to the limitations of my own body (ie I have to eat, excrete, work and sleep) and the EULA.
Similarly, I have no problem with other players shooting me (indeed, many have over the years!) as long as they do so within the terms of the EULA. It's a bit like not having a problem with the other team scoring a goal in a football match unless they've smuggled a twelth player onto the pitch or used their hands.
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned.
yes it does, the broke the rules, they should be banned.
they knew the risks, brake the EULA then they can have their account, money, items removed from their use. this is a known fact.
cheating = bad things happening to you up to and including being banned.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:47:00 -
[894]
Quote:
This is all good, but it does not justify why thousands of players should now get banned
Imo CCP should not ban those names but investigate on them first.
Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:56:00 -
[895]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it.
i guess you mean isk confiscation, don't think ccp is allowed to touch customer money even if they broke the eula.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:56:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Imo CCP should not ban those names but investigate on them first.
Then those found guilty of $50 and below, receive 1-2 weeks bans (plus purchased money confiscation) so that they learn. Those who spent above $50 and < $100 should get 1 month ban (plus purchased money confiscation x 2). Those above $100 should be permabanned and that's it.
I think you can take it as read that CCP aren't going to ban people or confiscate money without checking
Which I'm pleased to say they are doing. A 3 month or so newbie (except he isn't, he's played before) in npc starter corp that my alt is in has had over 2 billion removed from his account and warned that next time will mean a ban. He's on the list.
As an aside he got precisely ZERO sympathy when he relayed his "tale of woe". The overwhelming consensus was he got off lightly - and that was before someone worked out he's been using the money for can-baiting REAL newbies in starter systems. After that the consensus was "permaban".
Anyway his name is now toast - nobody wants lame morons in corp that need to buy money, never mind the EULA violation.
So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Enjoy
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.14 15:59:00 -
[897]
Edited by: Ingvar Angst on 14/03/2011 15:59:35
Originally by: Othran
I think you can take it as read that CCP aren't going to ban people or confiscate money without checking
Which I'm pleased to say they are doing. A 3 month or so newbie (except he isn't, he's played before) in npc starter corp that my alt is in has had over 2 billion removed from his account and warned that next time will mean a ban. He's on the list.
As an aside he got precisely ZERO sympathy when he relayed his "tale of woe". The overwhelming consensus was he got off lightly - and that was before someone worked out he's been using the money for can-baiting REAL newbies in starter systems. After that the consensus was "permaban".
Anyway his name is now toast - nobody wants lame morons in corp that need to buy money, never mind the EULA violation.
So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Enjoy
Nice, a little good news, a little warmth and love spread around as a result of all this. You know, if this is indeed true, this could be the best source of tears in quite some time.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:13:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 The MPs also knew what they were doing was wrong. Its exactly the same, both knew it is wrong, both said they did nothing wrong, both defend what they did and both are found to be cheating little arsewipes who screw everyone else up.
Nonsense. You are just saying "all MPs are criminals". While this may be a popular opinion do these people actually believe that they are doing the right thing for the people. Many of them have done good work or else they would not have come into being MPs. You want to put RMTs on the same level as MPs? Good luck with that.
What are you reading because it is not what I am putting down. I said the MP expences scandal. No where did I say all MPs. Before replying in future please read what I am putting down rather than useing your selective reading skills so you dont end up looking even more like a fool.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:17:00 -
[899]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:22:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit.
If they are dated and have isk amounts on them then its pretty easy to check initial validity VERY fast.
I guess Whitehound posted too much recently - hence you coming back to spread FUD Mr Alt.
Spin on. Nobody believes you or he have "altruistic" reasons for your "contributions" |
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:35:00 -
[901]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 16:39:45
Originally by: Pesky LaRue Yes, it does. They broke the EULA, they should get banned.
No, this is not a justification. All you are saying is that you understand the EULA and its implications. It still does not say why thousands of players need to be banned.
For example, if someone is being caught repeatedly running bots, then you can say that his or her activity causes a much higher load on the server than the activities of other players. Because every player pays the same subscription amount does everyone deserve the same amount of CPU time. If then a player's activity is much higher than the average do the subscription costs become unjustified for the rest of the players. Many players will have to pay extra for the activity of a single player in order to keep the game free from lag and to maintain the server. You may not see an increased subscription fee, but you might get less content with the next expansion, because some staff needs to go after bots.
This would be a justification for a ban.
A list on the Internet with thousands of player names and some Dollar sum is not a justification. It is one sick joke and one can only be happy not to be on this list. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:39:00 -
[902]
Originally by: baltec1 What are you reading because it is not what I am putting down. I said the MP expences scandal. No where did I say all MPs. Before replying in future please read what I am putting down rather than useing your selective reading skills so you dont end up looking even more like a fool.
Cry some more tears. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:39:00 -
[903]
Originally by: Whitehound No, this is not a justification.
Why on earth is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:40:00 -
[904]
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Ingvar Angst So that's one dealt with for sure. If you're on the list then you ARE bolloxed.
Why do I get the feeling more lists are going to turn up now. Lists that may or may not actually be legit.
If they are dated and have isk amounts on them then its pretty easy to check initial validity VERY fast.
I guess Whitehound posted too much recently - hence you coming back to spread FUD Mr Alt.
Spin on. Nobody believes you or he have "altruistic" reasons for your "contributions"
If you seriously think a crapton of players are not right now trying to come up with ways to post a 'legit' list of rtm buyers so they will be harrassed ingame you are either trolling or one of the crapton of players looking to take advantage of this 'rmt rage' for their own purposes.
I leave it to our noble readers to figure out which is which.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:42:00 -
[905]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 What are you reading because it is not what I am putting down. I said the MP expences scandal. No where did I say all MPs. Before replying in future please read what I am putting down rather than useing your selective reading skills so you dont end up looking even more like a fool.
Cry some more tears.
Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on...
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:50:00 -
[906]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 16:39:45
Originally by: Pesky LaRue Yes, it does. They broke the EULA, they should get banned.
No, this is not a justification. All you are saying is that you understand the EULA and its implications. It still does not say why thousands of players need to be banned.
For example, if someone is being caught repeatedly running bots, then you can say that his or her activity causes a much higher load on the server than the activities of other players. Because every player pays the same subscription amount does everyone deserve the same amount of CPU time. If then a player's activity is much higher than the average do the subscription costs become unjustified for the rest of the players. Many players will have to pay extra for the activity of a single player in order to keep the game free from lag and to maintain the server. You may not see an increased subscription fee, but you might get less content with the next expansion, because some staff needs to go after bots.
If an athlete takes steroids and gets caught, he gets banned.
It's the same here.
You're welcome to disagree with me of course and claim that Ben Johnson should have kept his Olypmic gold because his infraction was "victimless."
Quote: A list on the Internet with thousands of player names and some Dollar sum is not a justification. It is one sick joke and one can only be happy not to be on this list.
The list itself isn't justification for bans. But it is justification for an investigation - which could then lead to bans.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:52:00 -
[907]
Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on...
More tears, please!!! --
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 16:57:00 -
[908]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on...
More tears, please!!!
You are doing this so very wrong.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:01:00 -
[909]
Its escapes some people that CCP could delete your account because they just felt like it, they do not need a reason to stop providing you with a service.
Whitehound, is a troll for the sake of troll, but it keeps the topic bumped.
RMT, ban the ****s, all games rely on rules to function, even if there are not rules in game its whole construct is reliant on rules and defined parameters.
CCP gave the time poor, adrenaline fixated a method to get isk in game aka the PLEX, so RTM should be stomped on as it hurts the companies revenue stream aka the sale of game time. ...... continues overleaf. |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:01:00 -
[910]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on...
More tears, please!!!
You are doing this so very wrong.
And yet people still reply. Hell we are at page 31 so far so whats that olde adage about trolls and feeding?
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:03:00 -
[911]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 17:05:42
Originally by: Rodj Blake If an athlete takes steroids and gets caught, he gets banned.
This is also where the dilemma starts. If the steroids were taken on accident, because they were contained in some innocent product, then you do sometimes get to see athletes being banned regardless of it. Especially in spectator sports, where the athletes are all professionals and their entire lifestyle depends on the sport, does it add to the drama.
EVE is however not a spectator sport and the players do not get price money for "winning EVE".
So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the game when you do not have proof of their guilt? --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:05:00 -
[912]
Originally by: Whitehound So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt?
Strawman argument. No-one is saying that.
Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:08:00 -
[913]
Edited by: Rodj Blake on 14/03/2011 17:09:45
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake If an athlete takes steroids and gets caught, he gets banned.
This is also where the dilemma starts. If the steroids were taken on accident, because they were contained in some innocent product, then you do sometimes get to see athletes being banned regardless of it. Especially in spectator sports, where the athletes are all professionals, does it add to the drama.
I agree that if a player can demonstrate that they accidentally bought ISK from a dodgy company while trying to buy some books from Amazon.com that they should be shown some clemency. I don't think that anyone is claiming that's what happened though.
Quote: So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt?
Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:12:00 -
[914]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt?
Strawman argument. No-one is saying that.
Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
Americanisation, look at wall street.... ...... continues overleaf. |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:31:00 -
[915]
Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken.
For example, you, Tippia, break a rule and you did not know about it. You then will ask why you are being banned. You always followed every rule. Some will tell you "because of Falcon" or "because of rule #42". You will not like such an answer, but you will want the person to justify your ban so that you can understand why what you did falls under rule #42. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:36:00 -
[916]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned.
And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names? --
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:46:00 -
[917]
Edited by: Guttripper on 14/03/2011 17:47:02
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken.
I did not know CCP had to justify anything to anyone about anything involving their service. If CCP feels like it, investigates on a whim, or outright does not like your avatar picture, then they can cease your account and refund any proportion of your payment without having to answer any questions. We players do not have any recourse, save for opening a petition and hoping to get an explanation.
Edit: changed "and" to "any"
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Malcanis
Caldari Alcohlics Anonymous Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:52:00 -
[918]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken.
Fun fact: no, actually, you don't.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 17:55:00 -
[919]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned.
And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names?
To ensure all their associated accounts get banned too.
Seems reasonable.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:04:00 -
[920]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 18:07:01
Originally by: Malcanis Fun fact: no, actually, you don't.
If CCP was dumb and stupid, then I would agree. However, for rules to become accepted do they need to make sense and those who uphold those rules need to be able to justify them.
If rules only existed for the purpose of punishing people then why have rules? You could simply punish who ever comes your way!
CCP could do it like the Romans did. If things do not go their way start banning every tenth player.
The EULA is also not a set of rules but an agreement. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:08:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Whitehound
The EULA is also not a set of rules but an agreement.
Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules.
Retro sig |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:11:00 -
[922]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound So why do you so desperately need to see thousands of players banned from the when you do not have proof of their guilt?
Strawman argument. No-one is saying that.
Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
I'm thinking because it's widespread enough that banning the bots and RMT would cause a lot of economic distress. The problem is that EVE's economy is very stable, despite what everyone here is saying is a massive amount of botting and RMT. This is incredibly unusual.
Banning can really only make prices go up, and that is probably why they are hesitating. Less minerals, less ISK, same fixed costs and demand.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:15:00 -
[923]
Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules.
You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:16:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules.
You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules.
You might want to double check what you agreed to mate.
Retro sig |
Mister Rocknrolla
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:20:00 -
[925]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia Why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating ù not a justification for a ban?
You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. So you need to be able to give a justification other than saying that a rule was broken.
For example, you, Tippia, break a rule and you did not know about it. You then will ask why you are being banned. You always followed every rule. Some will tell you "because of Falcon" or "because of rule #42". You will not like such an answer, but you will want the person to justify your ban so that you can understand why what you did falls under rule #42.
"This is not the logic you are looking for" [/JediFail]
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:20:00 -
[926]
Originally by: Whitehound You get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules.
Quite the opposite.
You do not get banned for what you did, you get banned for breaking the rules. As it happens, what you did broke the rules. By breaking the rules, you open yourself to a ban.
Quote: For example, you break a rule and you did not know about it.
Ignorance is not a defence or an excuse.
Quote: You will not like such an answer
Why not? What you're asking is one step removed from the question at hand. "Because of rule #42" is all the justification that is ever need it, whether you like it or not. If you want an explanation why X is Y, then you're free to ask, but that is not in any way required to justify a ban.
So again: why is breaking the rules of the game ù cheating (you knowà doing something you're not supposed to do) ù not a justification for a ban?
Quote: And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names?
For the same reason they need to investigate petitions. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:23:00 -
[927]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules.
You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules.
You might want to double check what you agreed to mate.
They call it terms, but at the very end do they refer to it as rules, too.
The point still is that for anything to become accepted it needs to be justifiable. In games, which can have nonsensical rules does this not apply. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:26:00 -
[928]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Part of that agreement is accepting their list of rules.
You accept the terms and conditions, not a set of rules.
You might want to double check what you agreed to mate.
They call it terms, but at the very end do they refer to it as rules, too.
The point still is that for anything to become accepted it needs to be justifiable. In games, which can have nonsensical rules does this not apply.
Originally by: TOS
As an Eve Online subscriber, you must observe and abide by the rules of conduct and policies outlined below, as well as the End User License Agreement. Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. No refunds will be given.
Originally by: Whitehound
The point still is that for anything to become accepted it needs to be justifiable
Nope, all they need to do is get you to click a button which states that you accept the rules, which you did. If you don't like them, don't agree to them, don't play.
Retro sig |
Garix Zaphe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:27:00 -
[929]
Whitehound, are you old enough that when you were a child they still had lead in house paint?
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:28:00 -
[930]
Edited by: Othran on 14/03/2011 18:28:50
Originally by: Centri Sixx
I'm thinking because it's widespread enough that banning the bots and RMT would cause a lot of economic distress. The problem is that EVE's economy is very stable, despite what everyone here is saying is a massive amount of botting and RMT. This is incredibly unusual.
Banning can really only make prices go up, and that is probably why they are hesitating. Less minerals, less ISK, same fixed costs and demand.
Well from a personal viewpoint CCP has a choice :
a) it can do more than indicate a preference for players who actually play rather than bot and observe the rules about in-game and OOG stuff which is frankly obvious to all but the dimmest of under-bridge dwellers;
b) it can tacitly say "free for all, sod the rules do what you like".
My accounts remain suspended and will expire after the much-vaunted FanFest presentation on cheating. If CCP want any more subs from me then that presentation better be worth watching. If its more PR fluff then we know which option is the one CCP tacitly approve.
We'll see soon enough.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:28:00 -
[931]
Originally by: Tippia Quite the opposite.
You do not get banned for what you did, ...
You do get banned for what you did. If it says that harassment is not allowed then you get banned, because you harassed someone, not because there is a rule telling you not to. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:29:00 -
[932]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia Quite the opposite.
You do not get banned for what you did, ...
You do get banned for what you did. If it says that harassment is not allowed then you get banned, because you harassed someone, not because there is a rule telling you not to.
If there was no rule you wouldn't get banned for harassment though.
Retro sig |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:34:00 -
[933]
Originally by: Avon Nope, all they need to do is get you to click a button which states that you accept the rules, which you did. If you don't like them, don't agree to them, don't play.
Nonsense. You make it sound like CCP is tricking people into accepting their EULA. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:36:00 -
[934]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 18:37:21
Originally by: Avon If there was no rule you wouldn't get banned for harassment though.
Wrong. If there was no rule can they still ban you regardless of the existence of such a rule.
They can use your incident to add it as a new rule and ask you to accept it again as part of an EULA update.
Again: you do get banned for what you did, not for breaking rules. --
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:39:00 -
[935]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Nope, all they need to do is get you to click a button which states that you accept the rules, which you did. If you don't like them, don't agree to them, don't play.
Nonsense. You make it sound like CCP is tricking people into accepting their EULA.
It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:42:00 -
[936]
Originally by: dexington It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement.
True, but Avon is only trying to derail my point. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:43:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Whitehound If there was no rule can they still ban you regardless of the existence of such a rule.
So you agree that there is no issue with CCP banning people that appear on an RMT list?
Retro sig |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:44:00 -
[938]
Originally by: dexington
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Nope, all they need to do is get you to click a button which states that you accept the rules, which you did. If you don't like them, don't agree to them, don't play.
Nonsense. You make it sound like CCP is tricking people into accepting their EULA.
It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement.
Happily not the case in Eve where you sign up to it when you open A TRIAL ACCOUNT.
Unless of course the character was bought OOG or whatever when yeah I quite agree but that's not CCPs problem now is it?
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:45:00 -
[939]
After reading the iskbank guys interview from evenews and comparing his statements to certain inviduals statements, could easily make hilarious conclusions that they are the same guy or at least running the same business ;)
...thank god I'm not running the ccp's "boot to the head"-division which handles the ban distribution :)
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Centri Sixx
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:46:00 -
[940]
Originally by: Othran Edited by: Othran on 14/03/2011 18:28:50
Originally by: Centri Sixx
I'm thinking because it's widespread enough that banning the bots and RMT would cause a lot of economic distress. The problem is that EVE's economy is very stable, despite what everyone here is saying is a massive amount of botting and RMT. This is incredibly unusual.
Banning can really only make prices go up, and that is probably why they are hesitating. Less minerals, less ISK, same fixed costs and demand.
Well from a personal viewpoint CCP has a choice :
a) it can do more than indicate a preference for players who actually play rather than bot and observe the rules about in-game and OOG stuff which is frankly obvious to all but the dimmest of under-bridge dwellers;
b) it can tacitly say "free for all, sod the rules do what you like".
My accounts remain suspended and will expire after the much-vaunted FanFest presentation on cheating. If CCP want any more subs from me then that presentation better be worth watching. If its more PR fluff then we know which option is the one CCP tacitly approve.
We'll see soon enough.
Eh, the game is biased against rule followers in many ways. Alt accounts are biased against those using only one, buying characters against those taking the time to train, PLEX buyers versions players against those not willing to drop rl cash for ISK, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike both RMT and bots as much as you, but the argument against them is based on fairness and a level playing field, and EVE really has much less than other games. The only argument left is economic, and ironically it favors bots as they keep producing to fulfill PvP demand: pure mining or ratting players are a minority.
That worries me, because usually botted economies have such super-high inflation that players can barely afford anything. Here doesn't, which means players consume way more than even bots produce.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:46:00 -
[941]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake Read what I wrote. There should be an investigation before anyone is banned.
And why does it need an investigation of a list full of player names?
Maybe to confirm that the player has actually done something against the EULA?
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:48:00 -
[942]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/03/2011 18:49:56
Originally by: Whitehound You do get banned for what you did. If it says that harassment is not allowed then you get banned, because you harassed someone, not because there is a rule telling you not to.
Eh. No. If harassment is not allowed, you get banned for breaking the rule that says harassment isn't allowed. You get banned because the rules say you can get banned for breaking that particular rule.
If harassment is allowed, you don't get banned for what you did, because it's allowed.
Quote: Wrong. If there was no rule can they still ban you regardless of the existence of such a rule.
No. He is 100% right. If there was no rule against harassment, you couldn't be banned for harassment. You can still be banned, and it would still be entirely within the rules (rules you agreed with, btw), but it won't be due to the "no harassment" rule.
In fact, can you come up with an example where they have banned people without those people having broken the rules? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:49:00 -
[943]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: dexington It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement.
True, but Avon is only trying to derail my point.
Oh so much trolling, I gotta admire the dedication but...
Irony. Ever heard of it?
You're a Russian language speaker. That's your native language - its obvious when you try to pretend you live in other countries.
Obfuscation - look it up.
Thats you and I wonder why you're so irritated. Perhaps you know Vadim?
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 18:53:00 -
[944]
Originally by: Grey Stormshadow After reading the iskbank guys interview from evenews and comparing his statements to certain inviduals statements, could easily make hilarious conclusions that they are the same guy or at least running the same business ;)
...thank god I'm not running the ccp's "boot to the head"-division which handles the ban distribution :)
As i read the TOS of the forums, it has nothing to do with the eve eula, you forum and eve account are two seperat things so you can't get banned from eve for trolling the forums.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:08:00 -
[945]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 19:12:29
Originally by: Avon So you agree that there is no issue with CCP banning people that appear on an RMT list?
Do you not read what I have been writing so far? I consider it to be a major issue to ban thousands of players because they appear on some list. There is no proof of RMT.
Originally by: Rodj Blake Maybe to confirm that the player has actually done something against the EULA?
And this shall be done every time someone sends such a list to CCP? Do you have any idea how much effort this is going to make? And what about this:
16. You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, ... 17. You may not engage in any activity that increases the difficulty and/or expense of CCP in maintaining the EVE Online client, server, web site or other services for the benefit and enjoyment of all its users. 19. You may not communicate, post or publicize any subscriberÆs personal information within the EVE Online game world or website.
How does publishing huge lists of player names, who supposedly, but without a proof, have acted against the EULA, fit in here?
Originally by: Tippia Eh. No. If harassment is not allowed, you get banned for breaking the rule that says harassment isn't allowed. You get banned because the rules say you can get banned for breaking that particular rule.
If harassment is allowed, you don't get banned for what you did, because it's allowed.
CCP can ban you for almost anything and do not first need to put it up as a rule. You do get banned for what you did, and it is possible to break a rule and CCP may decide not to ban you. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:18:00 -
[946]
Originally by: Whitehound I consider it to be a major issue to ban thousands of players because they appear on some list. There is no proof of RMT.
What issue would that be, especially considering thatà Quote: CCP can ban you for almost anything and do not first need to put it up as a rule.
Just because they can ban you for not liking your face doesn't mean that your rule-breaking isn't the reason they ban you when you break the rules.
However, none of that matters. What we're talking about here is people breaking the rules. Since they break the rules, they will get banned for breaking the rules. Because they broke the rules. What they did was rule-breaking, which makes them subject to the rule that breaking the rules get you banned. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:20:00 -
[947]
Reasons on why sending CCP a fake list is a bad idea.
1. CCP will check and will know if you just sent a fake list
2. The person who sent the fake list would at best get a warning and at worst get a ban.
3. ANY credibility said player had before will forever be gone.
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:21:00 -
[948]
Originally by: Whitehound
Do you not read what I have been writing so far? I consider it to be a major issue to ban thousands of players because they appear on some list. There is no proof of RMT.
Much in the same way that we all say, we dont want them banned without proof. But if CCP finds proof in their investigation of said list.. then ban their behinds.
But you will of course ignore that in your constant trolling and calling us a pitch fork wielding mob.
Look at the list as any other report CCP gets. like the one i did earlier today about possible ice mining macro.. Someone tells CCP.. hey we think XXX is a cheater could you look into it? So they do.. if they find something they act, if not they let the person go.
How is this so bleeping hard for even a troll like you to get.. oh wait.. you get it but just troll. Which is fine, nothing good on TV today anyway so this is quite amusing. Go on, i got tons of popcorn. Mm hubby is complaining i am getting fat though.. perhaps carrots.. yes..
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:25:00 -
[949]
@Whitehound
Is what you are saying that it's a huge effort to cross check the a list of names and dates, against the eve player database for matching transactions?. I'm guessing CCP has a code monkey hidden away somewhere that can solve that task in a few hours.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:28:00 -
[950]
Originally by: baltec1 Reasons on why sending CCP a fake list is a bad idea.
1. CCP will check and will know if you just sent a fake list
2. The person who sent the fake list would at best get a warning and at worst get a ban.
3. ANY credibility said player had before will forever be gone.
You are kinda stupid if you send a fake list, and give them you real name.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:45:00 -
[951]
Originally by: baltec1 Reasons on why sending CCP a fake list is a bad idea.
1. CCP will check and will know if you just sent a fake list
2. The person who sent the fake list would at best get a warning and at worst get a ban.
3. ANY credibility said player had before will forever be gone.
For a member of the goonies you sure don't think like one.
*ahem*
1. Vengeful botting corp sets up new rmt site and starts collecting names with all the normal identifing goodies.
2. Vengeful botting corp seeds in the names of players they don't like with made up card details and sends them a large amount of isk when they are known to be inactive for a while.
3. Vengenful botting corp 'leaks' list through a fansite who then posts it on the official forums hoping the targeted players get ingame reprisals for being dirty rmt buyers.
4. ???
5. lulz ensues.
It will happen if it hasn't already.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 19:56:00 -
[952]
Originally by: dexington @Whitehound
Is what you are saying that it's a huge effort to cross check the a list of names and dates, against the eve player database for matching transactions?. I'm guessing CCP has a code monkey hidden away somewhere that can solve that task in a few hours.
And then you are going to complain about the lack of content, server lag and what not, because the "code monkey" had to go through a player provided list of accusations instead of working on the game.
There is no way you can proof that any of the Dollar sums listed on EN24 actually existed and therefore do you have no proof of a real money transfer. So all CCP will see is ISKs transactions that happen every day, but no proof of real money.
All CCP can do and is doing is to find bots and reverse all ISKs transactions that were generated by the bots. They still cannot prove that real money was used, but they can prove that bots are running, which is also against the EULA, and they can remove all ISKs generated by them.
CCP could try to press a confession out of each player though. I bet the lynch mob would love it. --
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 20:08:00 -
[953]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: baltec1 Reasons on why sending CCP a fake list is a bad idea.
1. CCP will check and will know if you just sent a fake list
2. The person who sent the fake list would at best get a warning and at worst get a ban.
3. ANY credibility said player had before will forever be gone.
For a member of the goonies you sure don't think like one.
*ahem*
1. Vengeful botting corp sets up new rmt site and starts collecting names with all the normal identifing goodies.
2. Vengeful botting corp seeds in the names of players they don't like with made up card details and sends them a large amount of isk when they are known to be inactive for a while.
3. Vengenful botting corp 'leaks' list through a fansite who then posts it on the official forums hoping the targeted players get ingame reprisals for being dirty rmt buyers.
4. ???
5. lulz ensues.
It will happen if it hasn't already.
A cunning plan with just one flaw. CCP follows the isk trail back to whence it came so you might end you getting yourself banned along with the victim
It would work if you are rich and rage quitting
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Kogh Ayon
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Posted - 2011.03.14 20:14:00 -
[954]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 19:58:43
Originally by: dexington @Whitehound
Is what you are saying that it's a huge effort to cross check the a list of names and dates, against the eve player database for matching transactions?. I'm guessing CCP has a code monkey hidden away somewhere that can solve that task in a few hours.
And then you are going to complain about the lack of content, server lag and what not, because the "code monkey" had to go through a player provided list of accusations instead of working on the game.
There is no way you can proof that any of the Dollar sums listed on EN24 actually existed and therefore do you have no proof of a real money transfer. So all CCP will see is ISKs transactions that happen every day, but no proof of real money.
All CCP can do and is doing is to find bots and reverse all ISKs transactions that were generated by the bots. They still cannot prove that real money was used, but they can prove that bots are running, which is also against the EULA, and they can remove all ISKs generated by them.
CCP could try to press a confession out of each player though ("We know who you are, now tell us everything!!"). I bet the lynch mob would love it.
When CCP don't have to prove anything to anybody, they don't use proof. They think you're rmted, then ban you, you can go petiton.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.14 20:19:00 -
[955]
Originally by: baltec1 A cunning plan with just one flaw. CCP follows the isk trail back to whence it came so you might end you getting yourself banned along with the victim
It would work if you are rich and rage quitting
I'm sorry, I should have said sacrificial rmt site using throwaway botting alts. You know, they way they already operate to reduce the hit from getting caught? But what ccp does is irrelevant. It would be done to ruin a players ingame credibility as ccp will never ever ever publicly confirm or deny any action or non-action they take on any investigations they do.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.14 20:29:00 -
[956]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: baltec1 A cunning plan with just one flaw. CCP follows the isk trail back to whence it came so you might end you getting yourself banned along with the victim
It would work if you are rich and rage quitting
I'm sorry, I should have said sacrificial rmt site using throwaway botting alts. You know, they way they already operate to reduce the hit from getting caught? But what ccp does is irrelevant. It would be done to ruin a players ingame credibility as ccp will never ever ever publicly confirm or deny any action or non-action they take on any investigations they do.
Oh if you put it that way then yea.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.14 20:41:00 -
[957]
Edited by: dexington on 14/03/2011 20:41:45
Originally by: Whitehound And then you are going to complain about the lack of content, server lag and what not, because the "code monkey" had to go through a player provided list of accusations instead of working on the game.
People are always going to complain about something, you can't please everyone, i'm sure CCP is going to do what is in their best interest.
Originally by: Whitehound There is no way you can proof that any of the Dollar sums listed on EN24 actually existed and therefore do you have no proof of a real money transfer. So all CCP will see is ISKs transactions that happen every day, but no proof of real money.
Don't you mean there is no way to prove to YOU that money was involved, this rest of is willing to take CCP words for their data and the data of the list match and that is all the prove that is needed.
Originally by: Whitehound All CCP can do and is doing is to find bots and reverse all ISKs transactions that were generated by the bots. They still cannot prove that real money was used, but they can prove that bots are running, which is also against the EULA, and they can remove all ISKs generated by them.
They do need to prove anything else them that you have received isk obtained by illegal means, that's how it works in most/all mmo's. How do you think people got banned before the list was released.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 20:41:00 -
[958]
Originally by: Tippia Since they break the rules, they will get banned for breaking the rules. Because they broke the rules. What they did was rule-breaking, which makes them subject to the rule that breaking the rules get you banned.
No. You can get banned, and because of what you did. Not because it was written in the EULA. The EULA only describe several cases, but the list is not said to be complete nor do all the rules describe exactly what you need to do to get banned. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:02:00 -
[959]
Originally by: Whitehound No. You can get banned, and because of what you did.
Incorrect. You can get banned. Period. If that's the view you want to take, then it doesn't matter what you did.
If you get banned for breaking the rules, then guess what: you got banned because you broke the rules. What you did was against the rules, and it was the rule-breaking that got you banned.
Either way, what "what you did" is more or less of zero relevance as far as justifying your ban.
Even so: provide an example of someone getting banned without breaking the rules. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:03:00 -
[960]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia Since they break the rules, they will get banned for breaking the rules. Because they broke the rules. What they did was rule-breaking, which makes them subject to the rule that breaking the rules get you banned.
No. You can get banned, and because of what you did. Not because it was written in the EULA. The EULA only describe several cases, but the list is not said to be complete nor do all the rules describe exactly what you need to do to get banned.
They are pretty clear about RMT though, aren't they?
Originally by: Ban policy
Severe offences may result in an immediate ban without warning; however. warnings may be given for first time offenses, followed by account suspensions of varying degree and ultimately a permanent ban if a player: ò a. Buys in-game goods or services for real world currency through an online auction site or any other venue.
Retro sig |
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Burnharder
|
Posted - 2011.03.14 21:13:00 -
[961]
Originally by: Avon
They are pretty clear about RMT though, aren't they?
Good lord. Avon. I haven't seen your char since the great WTZ debate.... which I won .
My opinion (not that anyone gives a **** what I think) is simply this: how pathetic an individual do you have to be to get banned from an MMO? And what kind of twit spends thousands of dollars on internet spaceships? It's incomprehensible to me...
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:15:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Kogh Ayon When CCP don't have to prove anything to anybody, they don't use proof. They think you're rmted, then ban you, you can go petiton.
For individual cases is this acceptable. It would however be political suicide for CCP to ban thousands of players in this cat and mouse game between them, RMTs, a parasitic press and the players. The story about this list already travelled far. An "Unholy Rage II", this time against players and not bots, will get a different kind of press going. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:17:00 -
[963]
Originally by: Whitehound For individual cases is this acceptable. It would however be political suicide for CCP to ban thousands of players in this cat and mouse game between them, RMTs, a parasitic press and the players.
àand you're back to the same old strawman.
These are individual cases. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:17:00 -
[964]
Eve'o'addicts guide to forum rehab and creative time management.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:46:00 -
[965]
Originally by: Tippia What you did was against the rules, and it was the rule-breaking that got you banned.
No. It is not the breaking of the rule. Again, it is what you did that can get you banned. CCP could just say they have rules, but not disclose them. They would then not even need a list of rules and all you need to know is that it has got rules. You would then get banned for breaking rules and may never know what it was you did. All you knew would be that you broke the rules. You cannot be this stupid, Tippia, and believe that this is how rules work. You do not ban people, because they broke some stupid rule of yours like little girls make them on a garden tea party with Barbie.
The EULA is not a game element defining how to play EVE and when you break the rules will you get kicked out. Maybe you need to see it like this, but it really is an agreement between CCP and you as a person - not as a player - and it is about how you treat other people and as well as their property. You are expected to act responsible. The list is really just a description of what CCP considers as irresponsible behaviour. It is not the breaking of a rule that can get you banned. --
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:53:00 -
[966]
whitehound as always just ignoring anything that doesnt fit into his little world of strawman arguments. This is brilliant stuff!!! i havent been laughing this much since the whole lewinski affair.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:55:00 -
[967]
Originally by: Tippia These are individual cases.
Thousands of players on one, single list is not an individual case. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 21:58:00 -
[968]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker whitehound as always just ignoring anything that doesnt fit into his little world of strawman arguments. This is brilliant stuff!!! i havent been laughing this much since the whole lewinski affair.
Are there strawwomen, too, or is this just something girls are afraid of? Like having a bogeyman in the cupboard but never a bogeywoman. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:02:00 -
[969]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/03/2011 22:02:48
Originally by: Whitehound Again, it is what you did that can get you banned.
How do you know, when the fact of the matter is that you broke the rules and that it got you banned?
Quote: You do not ban people, because they broke some stupid rule of yours
Of course you do. Especially if you state that breaking the rules gets people banned.
Quote: Maybe you need to see it like this, but it really is an agreement between CCP and you as a person - not as a player - and it is about how you treat other people and as well as their property.
Yes, maybe you should look at it that way. And if you break the rules of the agreement, you get bannedà per the agreement.
Quote: Thousands of players on one, single list is not an individual case.
Of course they are individual cases. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:16:00 -
[970]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 22:18:32
Originally by: Tippia Of course you do. Especially if you state that breaking the rules gets people banned.
Then read what it says under the Terms of Service. A ban can be the result of it, but it further says that you will be held responsible for what you did. So CCP will not ban you for breaking one of their rules. It means that it can go as far as you being banned and CCP calling the police, because of what you did.
Originally by: Tippia Of course they are individual cases.
It is called a collective case. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:27:00 -
[971]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: dexington It may not be tricking people, but a common eula problem is that you often pay for the product before you accept the agreement.
True, but Avon is only trying to derail my point.
You are, without doubt, the single most pointless thing in this game. But watching you run around in circles screaming "CRY MOAR NOOB" is utterly hysterical, I haven't laughed this much in ages. I'm just going to keep pointing and laughing as you spiral deeper and deeper in to this hole you are digging for yourself.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:28:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Whitehound Then read what it says under the Terms of Service.
Ok:
Failure to comply with these regulations can result in the immediate termination of your account and you will forfeit all unused access time to the game. [à] YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU AGREE TO THESE RULES AND WILL ABIDE BY THEM.
YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT BY CCP OR ONE OF ITS AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVES MAY RESULT FROM FAILURE TO ABIDE BY THESE RULES.
àthey talk an awful lot about breaking the rules for not using rule-breaking as a justification for bans.
Quote: it further says that you will be held responsible for what you did. So CCP will not ban you for breaking one of their rules.
Wrong. What it actually says is:
YOU AGREE THAT YOU WILL BE HELD PERSONALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONSEQUENCES (WHICH CAN INCLUDE ACCOUNT TERMINATION) THAT MAY RESULT IF ANY SUCH PERSON BREAKS THE RULES DESCRIBED HEREIN.
So no. You are held responsible for breaking the rules.
Quote: It is called a collective case.
Doesn't keep them from being individual cases. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:38:00 -
[973]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
1. Vengeful botting corp sets up new rmt site and starts collecting names with all the normal identifing goodies.
If they set up an RMT business and people buy isk, thats great, more people to ban.
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
2. Vengeful botting corp seeds in the names of players they don't like with made up card details and sends them a large amount of isk when they are known to be inactive for a while.
I highlighted the important bit here. This is something CCP are known to check on when investigating possible RMT'ers, so this works FOR the person being set up.
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
3. Vengenful botting corp 'leaks' list through a fansite who then posts it on the official forums hoping the targeted players get ingame reprisals for being dirty rmt buyers.
We end up in exactly the same position we are already in. CCP investigate first, then hand out bans if it is deemed the correct course of action
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
4. ???
nothing to see here
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
5. lulz ensues.
No more lulz than are already being had. The innocent go free, the guilty get banned.
Pretty much all you did was sarcastically summarise the events so far whilst making a poor attempt at making someone else look silly, well done you, have a freakin medal.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:42:00 -
[974]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 22:43:41
Originally by: Tippia So no. You are held responsible for breaking the rules.
No. Read again. It says "you will be held personally responsible for the consequences". It still is about what you did. It does not stop at the rules. Not for you, not for anybody.
Originally by: Tippia Doesn't keep them from being individual cases.
No. They are all on the same list and all are being accused of the same. There is nothing that makes one different from the others. Therefore are these not individual cases but they are a collective case. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:45:00 -
[975]
Originally by: Whitehound No. Read again. It says "you will be held personally responsible for the consequences"
àof breaking the rules.
Quote: No. They are all on the same list and all are being accused of the same.
Doesn't keep them from being individual cases. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:50:00 -
[976]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound No. Read again. It says "you will be held personally responsible for the consequences"
àof breaking the rules.
You mean you will be held responsible by CCP for getting a ban?
What are they going to do? Ban you twice and then a third time?
It is the consequences of what you did!
Quote: Doesn't keep them from being individual cases.
No, silly. You have nothing that makes one different from the others. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:51:00 -
[977]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: baltec1 A cunning plan with just one flaw. CCP follows the isk trail back to whence it came so you might end you getting yourself banned along with the victim
It would work if you are rich and rage quitting
I'm sorry, I should have said sacrificial rmt site using throwaway botting alts. You know, they way they already operate to reduce the hit from getting caught? But what ccp does is irrelevant. It would be done to ruin a players ingame credibility as ccp will never ever ever publicly confirm or deny any action or non-action they take on any investigations they do.
"HHHRRRRRRRRRNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGG" WRONG! If the person who has been publicly accused of wrongdoing asks CCP to present their findings on the forums and waives their rights to any annonimity, then CCP will come forth and give the results to the public. There was a very public case of this not so long ago when a player had isk removed after it was discovered that he had purchased it from an RMT site.
He publicly decried CCP's actions and demanded that it be investigated. He then waived his rights and gave CCP permission to declare their investigation findings openly for all to see. CCP did exactly as he asked, looked at his case again and when it was over they made it very clear that their investigation had been thorough and that X amount of isk had indeed been removed from the players account after the trail had been backtracked to someone known to have been involved in RMT.
Oddly enough Mr loud mouth was promptly "dropped" by his friends who had stuck up for him on the forums and was never seen again. Anyone accused of buying isk publicly via a list such as the one presented by EN24 would be well within their rights to ask CCP to make the investigation findings public, at which point people would know that this person had been set-up, thus clearing their name. The only thing CCP will not do under any circumstances is reveal the exact methods they use, and that is only to stay as far ahead of the RMT'ers as possible.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 22:55:00 -
[978]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/03/2011 22:56:29
Originally by: Whitehound You mean you will be held responsible by CCP for getting a ban?
No. I don't mean anything. What the ToS means is that if you get banned for breaking the rules, it's your fault.
Quote: It is the consequences of what you did!
That's not what the ToS says.
Quote: No, silly. You have nothing that makes one different from the others.
Incorrect. They are easily separated into individual cases.
ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:02:00 -
[979]
Edited by: Aeronwen Carys on 14/03/2011 23:02:29 Hey, Whitehound, cry me a river please for your tears are so tasty. You may also want to invest heavily in English lessons. Specifically those pertaining to the understanding of the written English language. More specifically, lessons in written English as it pertains to End User Licence Agreements used as part of an overall agreement between an online service provider and its customers.
Doing so may well help to halt this rapid decline in to raving idiocy, upon whose ever tightening spiral you suddenly find yourself. That concludes our customer service announcement.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:04:00 -
[980]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys There was a very public case of this not so long ago when a player had isk removed after it was discovered that he had purchased it from an RMT site.
He could have received the ISKs from a friend as a donation, in which case the ISKs will still get removed. It does not make him a buyer of ISKs, only because CCP decides to remove some of the player's ISKs.
This can happen to you and me at any time. You should then better keep your mouth shut if you see it happening, because the way your head works, being full of prejudices, will your friends drop you, too. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:09:00 -
[981]
Originally by: Whitehound He could have received the ISKs from a friend as a donation, in which case the ISKs will still get removed.
"Could have"à maybe. But that's not what had happened in that particular case.
àoh, and he was an ISK buyer. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Alty McExpendable
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:09:00 -
[982]
Originally by: Whitehound
HURR DURR
Step back and take a look at your posting. It is like a child smearing fingerpaint all over a piece of oversized paper.
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Deane Adama
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:09:00 -
[983]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys There was a very public case of this not so long ago when a player had isk removed after it was discovered that he had purchased it from an RMT site.
He could have received the ISKs from a friend as a donation, in which case the ISKs will still get removed. It does not make him a buyer of ISKs, only because CCP decides to remove some of the player's ISKs.
No, the ISK was explicitly traced back to a player who was known to be part of RMT business before. That's why the penalty was set forth.
You seem to forget one crucial thing; CCP own your account and all of it's assets. Only thing you have is the right to access the account until you are deemed inappropriate to be part of the game. CCP needs no justification or excuse to remove your rights, although usually is good PR to come forth and show what the banned player did to get his rights revoked.
Also, the players on the list will be investigated individually, nothing says that they have to be judged or pardoned as a whole. Just because you think it's "justified" and "only way to do it", well, it's not.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:10:00 -
[984]
Originally by: Tippia That's not what the ToS says.
It is exactly what it says and you better not ignore it. I am not going to argue further with you on this point if you choose to believe otherwise. Good luck with that!
Originally by: Tippia They are easily separated into individual cases.
This is not what makes them individual cases. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:15:00 -
[985]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/03/2011 23:15:39
Originally by: Whitehound It is exactly what it says
Prove it. I quoted the passage you were referring to and it said pretty much the opposite of what you claim.
Quote: This is not what makes them individual cases.
Sure it is.
àin fact, come to think of it: what on earth makes them a collective case, seeing as how they're separated into individual buyers? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:23:00 -
[986]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys There was a very public case of this not so long ago when a player had isk removed after it was discovered that he had purchased it from an RMT site.
He could have received the ISKs from a friend as a donation, in which case the ISKs will still get removed. It does not make him a buyer of ISKs, only because CCP decides to remove some of the player's ISKs.
This can happen to you and me at any time. You should then better keep your mouth shut if you see it happening, because the way your head works, being full of prejudices, will your friends drop you, too.
Cry moar noob.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:25:00 -
[987]
Originally by: Deane Adama No, the ISK was explicitly traced back to a player who was known to be part of RMT business before. That's why the penalty was set forth.
Of course was the ISKs traced back. This is they only way CCP can make the connection. And it is just good and right to remove the ISKs. It however does not prove that the player did pay real money for the ISKs or that he knew who the sender was.
Are you really this blind not to see that if it was this easy to get players banned then the RMTs would do just that to burn CCP for such a practise? They would move some amounts of ISKs to thousands of players, wait for CCP to detect the bot and watch the bomb to explode. They would repeat it until CCP ran out of players or until CCP stopped with such a practise. --
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Linda Flamewalker
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:27:00 -
[988]
Originally by: Tippia àin fact, come to think of it: what on earth makes them a collective case, seeing as how they're separated into individual buyers?
but it was from one source.. it has to make it a collective case. *eyerolls* i think you need a hammer to get through his thick skull Tippia
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:28:00 -
[989]
Originally by: Whitehound It however does not prove that the player did pay real money for the ISKs or that he knew who the sender was.
That's just it: it did. That was what was so fun about that case. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:28:00 -
[990]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Cry moar noob.
No, I am looking forward to when it happens to you. You will be so bummed that no crying will make you feel better. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:31:00 -
[991]
Originally by: Tippia That's just it: it did. That was what was so fun about that case.
You mean he played innocent and then confessed of having bough the ISKs? --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:32:00 -
[992]
Originally by: Whitehound You mean he played innocent and then confessed of having bough the ISKs?
No. He played innocent and then stopped when it was proven that he got the ISK from an ISK seller. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:33:00 -
[993]
Originally by: Linda Flamewalker but it was from one source.. it has to make it a collective case. *eyerolls* i think you need a hammer to get through his thick skull Tippia
Then why do you not describe what a collective case would be if such a thing actually exists in your skull. This should be easy for you. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:34:00 -
[994]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia That's just it: it did. That was what was so fun about that case.
You mean he played innocent and then confessed of having bough the ISKs?
yup that is exactly it. And do you know why I don't have to worry about crying because I got banned for buying isk from RMT sites? Because I don't by ISK from RMT sites. Funny how that works isn't it.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:44:00 -
[995]
Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 23:46:00
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys And do you know why I don't have to worry about crying because I got banned for buying isk from RMT sites? Because I don't by ISK from RMT sites. Funny how that works isn't it.
Oh yes you will be bummed. You only do not know it yet. It does not need you to buy ISKs to receive them from an RMT. You could just be a member of his corporation or his alliance and receive ISKs from your friendly CEO who happens to run a few bots. Or you have scammed another player out of billions who later turns out to be an RMT and you now think these are all your ISKs. A month later does your account go negative. Boo!!
Who is going to believe you?
PS: I leave this for you to think about. Good night! --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.14 23:51:00 -
[996]
Edited by: Tippia on 14/03/2011 23:51:57
Originally by: Whitehound Oh yes you will be bummed. You only do not know it yet. It does not need you to buy ISKs to receive them from an RMT.
Oh no he won't. After all, as you are so fond of pointing out, just receiving ISK from an RMT is not enough, and if you do, you can still simply follow the rules and thus not get hit with anything.
You see, the problem is if you don't follow the rulesà
Oh, and as for the collective case: they're different counts. Thus not a collective case. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.15 00:02:00 -
[997]
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 23:46:00
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys And do you know why I don't have to worry about crying because I got banned for buying isk from RMT sites? Because I don't by ISK from RMT sites. Funny how that works isn't it.
Oh yes you will be bummed. You only do not know it yet. It does not need you to buy ISKs to receive them from an RMT. You could just be a member of his corporation or his alliance and receive ISKs from your friendly CEO who happens to run a few bots. Or you have scammed another player out of billions who later turns out to be an RMT and you now think these are all your ISKs. A month later does your account go negative. Boo!!
Who is going to believe you?
PS: I leave this for you to think about. Good night!
If any of what you had just said made sense to anyone but you, I may well have had something to think about. However, since everything you stated above has absolutely nothing to do with the OP I don't see I have much to worry about :D
I should also point out a few flaws in your thinking. First I am my own CEO, second I don't scam and third I don't accept money from people. Now, how much ISK did you actually buy from iskbank?
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.15 00:04:00 -
[998]
Hey Tippia, are you enjoying this as much as I am?
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EndUser License Agreement
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Posted - 2011.03.15 00:38:00 -
[999]
Thread moved to "Trolling Forums"
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Hecatonis
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.03.15 02:04:00 -
[1000]
the first quote/response is wildly out of order, but i believe it to be the most important. this entire thing is TL;DR, but it really should be said.
Originally by: Whitehound Maybe you need to see it like this, but it really is an agreement between CCP and you as a person - not as a player - and it is about how you treat other people and as well as their property. You are expected to act responsible. The list is really just a description of what CCP considers as irresponsible behaviour. It is not the breaking of a rule that can get you banned.
no CCP does not expect you to act responsibly, they is why then needed to create that monstrosity of an agreement. it is not there for the responsible players, a responsible player would never have need to read it.
It is there for the irresponsible players, the rejects that need every contingency included with the full list of the punishments to understand. it is there for the people that would abuse the system to the full extent and profit for every minute of it. it is there to protect the responsible players from the jacktards that cant do anything other then cheat. that is what it is there for.
you should learn to understand that
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia They are easily separated into individual cases.
This is not what makes them individual cases.
well the act of separating them into individual case is what makes them individual case, therefore tippia is correct. your point in invalid.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia What you did was against the rules, and it was the rule-breaking that got you banned.
No. It is not the breaking of the rule. Again, it is what you did that can get you banned.
its both, there are a list of rules set in place with clearly defined punishments. you can brake the rules and get banned, you can brake the rules and not be banned, and you can get banned and not brake any of the rules all outcomes are possible, once again, you are incorrect
Originally by: Whitehound CCP could just say they have rules, but not disclose them. They would then not even need a list of rules and all you need to know is that it has got rules. You would then get banned for breaking rules and may never know what it was you did. All you knew would be that you broke the rules.
you are correct in your hypothetical situation, but CCP does have a set of rules that are clearly defined, they also have a set of clearly defined punishments for braking their rules. so your hypothetical situation is completely pointless
Originally by: Whitehound You do not ban people, because they broke some stupid rule of yours like little girls make them on a garden tea party with Barbie.
i think i found your issue, you just disagree with the rules, therefore you believe that they should not be valid. well that's the problem, you agreed to those "stupid rule[s]" when you agreed to play the game. if you don't like them, then stop playing, if you continue to play then you are bound by those rules because you agreed to them.
__________________________________________________ stop acting like tw*ts and use your brain |
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Nemesis Factor
Caldari Telanus' Reach
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Posted - 2011.03.15 02:06:00 -
[1001]
1000 posts! ==================== ~/~ Sultan of Buruni |
Valeronx
Celestial Horizon Corp. Fallen Angels Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.15 02:29:00 -
[1002]
And the vast majority of them manages to miss the point entirely.
.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 02:30:00 -
[1003]
Edited by: Tippia on 15/03/2011 02:32:54
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Hey Tippia, are you enjoying this as much as I am?
Shh!
Also: 1k:th reply (if not 1k:th post)! \o/ ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Alty McExpendable
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2011.03.15 03:38:00 -
[1004]
Edited by: Alty McExpendable on 15/03/2011 03:38:41
Do you remember ze souzand islandz? Vell, vun souzand un vun!
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.03.15 07:11:00 -
[1005]
This could be post 1000 if the forum mods delete the troll posts.
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.15 07:17:00 -
[1006]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk This could be post 1000 if the forum mods delete the troll posts.
That would mean there are only 3 troll posts. I think you may have miscounted.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Pink Crabs
Hedion University
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Posted - 2011.03.15 08:26:00 -
[1007]
Edited by: Pink Crabs on 15/03/2011 08:26:24
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 23:46:00
Oh yes you will be bummed. .....
I appreciate that American usage is/may be different but this is an extremely offensive, vulgar and derogative remark in British English (who presumably make up a large portion of the user base here?), homophobic and certainly categorised as "extreme" in nature.
Bannable offense ? petition ? it certainly should not be "un moderated"
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.15 08:29:00 -
[1008]
Originally by: Pink Crabs Edited by: Pink Crabs on 15/03/2011 08:26:24
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 23:46:00
Oh yes you will be bummed. .....
I appreciate that American usage is/may be different but this is an extremely offensive, vulgar and derogative remark in British English (who presumably make up a large portion of the user base here?), homophobic and certainly categorised as "extreme" in nature.
Bannable offense ? petition ? it certainly should not be "un moderated"
He's not American. He's not a native English speaker. God knows where he's "from" but its not an English speaking country.
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Pink Lobster
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Posted - 2011.03.15 08:35:00 -
[1009]
Edited by: Pink Lobster on 15/03/2011 08:37:07
Originally by: Othran
Originally by: Pink Crabs Edited by: Pink Crabs on 15/03/2011 08:26:24
Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 14/03/2011 23:46:00
Oh yes you will be bummed. .....
I appreciate that American usage is/may be different but this is an extremely offensive, vulgar and derogative remark in British English (who presumably make up a large portion of the user base here?), homophobic and certainly categorised as "extreme" in nature.
Bannable offense ? petition ? it certainly should not be "un moderated"
He's not American. He's not a native English speaker. God knows where he's "from" but its not an English speaking country.
This may be true but regardless (and with all due respect to someone who is at the least bi-lingual) - knowingly or not (and ignorance is not an excuse) this is an offence.
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Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.03.15 08:43:00 -
[1010]
Edited by: Othran on 15/03/2011 08:43:46
Originally by: Pink Lobster
This may be true but regardless (and with all due respect to someone who is at the least bi-lingual) - knowingly or not (and ignorance is not an excuse) this is an offence.
Petition it then. However given that he's thrown insults and accusations around from the very first post he made in the thread I doubt anything will be done.
Best to just ignore him - he's either an epic troll or up to his eyeballs in RMT stuff. Either way he's best left to stew in his own bitterness.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.15 08:45:00 -
[1011]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk This could be post 1000 if the forum mods delete the troll posts.
I think we could lose half of this threadnought just by removing our RMT defenders bitter postings.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.15 09:16:00 -
[1012]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk This could be post 1000 if the forum mods delete the troll posts.
I think we could lose half of this threadnought just by removing our RMT defenders bitter postings.
We could lose the last half of the thread if we removed the bitter requests for bans against all isk buyers, at this point it's just trolls trolling trolls with whitehound as president.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 10:50:00 -
[1013]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/03/2011 10:51:28
Originally by: Tippia Oh no he won't. After all, as you are so fond of pointing out, just receiving ISK from an RMT is not enough, and if you do, you can still simply follow the rules and thus not get hit with anything.
No. I never said that receiving ISKs from someone who is running bots is not enough to remove the ISKs again. Why would you suddenly want to believe this? It only does not mean these ISKs were bought with real money. So he will be bummed when the ISKs get removed. He may not have bought them, but he did receive them nevertheless. Is he then going onto the forums, too, saying that he did not buy any ISKs and starts looking like a fool?
Originally by: Tippia Oh, and as for the collective case: they're different counts. Thus not a collective case.
So you do not know what a collective case is. It is all you needed to say.
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys First I am my own CEO, second I don't scam and third I don't accept money from people. Now, how much ISK did you actually buy from iskbank?
Your ignorance is what will make you cry, but you do understand that CCP will remove any ISKs that you have received from a bot regardless of what your excuses will be.
Originally by: Hecatonis no CCP does not expect you to act responsibly, they is why then needed to create that monstrosity of an agreement.
Sure they do. Just because you do not understand it does not mean that they do not expect it. And yes, for those who do not get it they need to write it down in every little detail so that even them dumbest can understand it.
Originally by: Hecatonis its both, there are a list of rules set in place with clearly defined punishments. you can brake the rules and get banned, you can brake the rules and not be banned, and you can get banned and not brake any of the rules all outcomes are possible, once again, you are incorrect
No. It is called "break", not "brake". You can get banned for what you did. You may believe whatever you want, but the consequence for you will still be the same. And if you do get banned can you then still believe whatever you like, and still will stay banned. In short, you can be dumb and ignorant, but it does not save you from the consequences of your own actions. You will then learn it the hard way.
Originally by: Hecatonis i think i found your issue, ...
No, but cry me some more tears.
Originally by: Pink Crabs I appreciate that American usage is/may be different but this is an extremely offensive, vulgar and derogative remark in British English (who presumably make up a large portion of the user base here?), homophobic and certainly categorised as "extreme" in nature.
Learn from the Urban Dictionary: bummed. You do know exactly what the word most commonly means. You only had to talk about its other meaning, because it is the first thing that comes to your mind. --
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ArtieLange
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Posted - 2011.03.15 10:54:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk This could be post 1000 if the forum mods delete the troll posts.
There are far more than 3 troll posts. Your post would be about number 76.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 11:00:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: Whitehound No. I never said that receiving ISKs from someone who is running bots is not enough to remove the ISKs again.
That's not what I said either. You need to stop with these strawmen because they only prove you have no argument and/or that you have confused yourself to the point where you no longer know what you're talking about.
Quote: So he will be bummed when the ISKs get removed. He may not have bought them, but he did receive them nevertheless.
No he won't, as long as he's following the rules.
Quote: So you do not know what a collective case is. It is all you needed to say.
Yes I do, and that's why I can tell you that these are individual cases. So I'll ask you again: why on earth would it be a collective case.
Quote: You can get banned for what you did.
Again: the "what you did" part is entirely irrelevant. You can get banned for not doing anything as well. What we're discussing here, though, is people being banned for breaking the rules. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 11:49:00 -
[1016]
Originally by: Tippia You need to stop with these strawmen because they only prove you have no argument and/or that you have confused yourself to the point where you no longer know what you're talking about.
Stop thinking of your strawmen. You better learn that there are no strawmen. I am still saying that you can get banned for what you did. Your action or your behaviour is what matters. It will be described to you as the breaking of a rule, but the rule you broke itself will only describe what you did. It does not change that you are responsible for what you do. So for example when you make racial remarks and get banned can you not just say that you broke the rules of the game. You will need to say that you made racial remarks. If you keep denying your responsibility then you only want to keep doing what you did, again and again, because you want to believe it was only a rule by CCP you broke. Racial remarks however do not make you a rule breaker, they make you a racist.
Quote: No he won't, as long as he's following the rules.
Yes, he will and because he is full of prejudices and then gets to experience it for himself.
Quote: So I'll ask you again: why on earth would it be a collective case.
I already told you. They are all accused of the same and there is nothing that makes one case different from the others. A future situation may change this, but for now it stays a collective case. I am guessing you already found them guilty.
Quote: Again: the "what you did" part is entirely irrelevant. You can get banned for not doing anything as well. What we're discussing here, though, is people being banned for breaking the rules.
Wrong again. What you did or did not do is entirely relevant, even when you only think for yourself of what you did as breaking a rule. It does not change the fact that it is because of what you did, or did not do, might be your attitude, your behaviour or just some belief of yours, too. It says you will be held responsible for the consequences. So read it again until it sinks in. I am done telling you. --
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.15 12:10:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Tippia You need to stop with these strawmen because they only prove you have no argument and/or that you have confused yourself to the point where you no longer know what you're talking about.
Stop thinking of your strawmen. You better learn that there are no strawmen. I am still saying that you can get banned for what you did. Your action or your behaviour is what matters. It will be described to you as the breaking of a rule, but the rule you broke itself will only describe what you did. It does not change that you are responsible for what you do. So for example when you make racial remarks and get banned can you not just say that you broke the rules of the game. You will need to say that you made racial remarks. If you keep denying your responsibility then you only want to keep doing what you did, again and again, because you want to believe it was only a rule by CCP you broke. Racial remarks however do not make you a rule breaker, they make you a racist.
Why are you trying to separate this into different things when it's all the same? Your actions break the rules. The rules define the actions required to break them and receive the ban. Your actions get you banned. There's no differentiating them, it's all the same thing. The EULA is the blueprint of what actions can get you banned. If you do something not covered in the EULA but considered ultimately ban-worthy, expect the next iteration of the EULA to now mention that action as bannable. Do it again, out you go. (More aggregious offenses, if any still exist, could result in a preemptive ban, but then again, it's doubtful there's anything that isn't already covered in teh EULA that would apply.)
Your last example... racial remarks make you both a rule breaker and a racist. You don't get banned for being a racist, you get banned for breaking the rules by being racist in Eve.
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ArtieLange
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Posted - 2011.03.15 13:14:00 -
[1018]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: baltec1 Interesting way to put your argument as to why everyone but you is wrong, please do go on...
More tears, please!!!
You are doing this so very wrong.
Just scroll past his posts. It saves time.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 13:39:00 -
[1019]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Why are you trying to separate this into different things when it's all the same?
It is not all the same. You can break a rule in a game, like taking too many cards of a stack in a game of cards. You then are only playing the game wrong, because you broke a rule.
The rules, or terms of service, in the EULA are not part of a game. They are meant to protect you from the consequences that can result from what you did (or did not do) outside of it. You may not understand it yet, or do not want to know about it, but this is when CCP will simply point to one of their rules. You do not need to listen or comply to any of what they say. All you will get is a ban and a pointer to what you did. Believe it or not.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst You don't get banned for being a racist.
Oh yes, you do. Exactly for this do you get banned. You can however choose to be a silent racist and not make any remarks and still play the game, Ingvar. The choice is yours. --
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Deane Adama
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Posted - 2011.03.15 13:52:00 -
[1020]
Edited by: Deane Adama on 15/03/2011 13:52:44
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Why are you trying to separate this into different things when it's all the same?
It is not all the same. You can break a rule in a game, like taking too many cards of a stack in a game of cards. You then are only playing the game wrong, because you broke a rule.
The rules, or terms of service, in the EULA are not part of a game. They are meant to protect you from the consequences that can result from what you did (or did not do) outside of it. You may not understand it yet, or do not want to know about it, but this is when CCP will simply point to one of their rules. You do not need to listen or comply to any of what they say. All you will get is a ban and a pointer to what you did. Believe it or not.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst You don't get banned for being a racist.
Oh yes, you do. Exactly for this do you get banned. You can however choose to be a silent racist and not make any remarks and still play the game, Ingvar. The choice is yours.
Things which you do outside of the game have no relevance on your right to play the game (being a silent racist as you put it). But when the actions you do outside of the game which influence the in-game experience (RMT), it will affect your right to play the game. I'll say this the 2nd time: CCP owns your account and assets, CCP can at any time without any notice to remove your right to play the game for whatever reason they seem fit. You will have no say against this because you have accepted the ToS and EULA before you started to play.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.15 13:53:00 -
[1021]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Why are you trying to separate this into different things when it's all the same?
It is not all the same. You can break a rule in a game, like taking too many cards of a stack in a game of cards. You then are only playing the game wrong, because you broke a rule.
And if people think that you knowingly did it, they probably won't want to play with you again.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.15 14:07:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Ingvar Angst Why are you trying to separate this into different things when it's all the same?
It is not all the same. You can break a rule in a game, like taking too many cards of a stack in a game of cards. You then are only playing the game wrong, because you broke a rule.
The farce is strong in this one.
There's a major difference between Eve Online and a game of Crazy 8's with your school buddies. In order to be allowed the priveledge of accessing the Eve servers, you agreed to a specific degree of conduct and personal behaviors. You agreed that if you failed to follow that guideline you would be subject to removal from the game. You're not playing with your deck of cards.
The rules, or terms of service, in the EULA are not part of a game. They are meant to protect you from the consequences that can result from what you did (or did not do) outside of it. You may not understand it yet, or do not want to know about it, but this is when CCP will simply point to one of their rules. You do not need to listen or comply to any of what they say. All you will get is a ban and a pointer to what you did. Believe it or not.
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Ingvar Angst You don't get banned for being a racist.
Oh yes, you do. Exactly for this do you get banned. You can however choose to be a silent racist and not make any remarks and still play the game, Ingvar. The choice is yours.
No, you don't get banned for being a racist. They have no idea if you're racist or not. However, if you make racist comments in the game, thus violating the EULA, then you can get banned. It's the act of breaking the rules that gets you banned. The EULA covers what you can and cannot do in the game, which includes obtaining isk from an RMT. Let's put it this way... if you buy isk from an RMT you won't aren't yet at risk of being banned. It's when you receive that isk in game that the risk becomes real.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Hannibals Commando's
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Posted - 2011.03.15 14:19:00 -
[1023]
Edited by: Hannibal Ord on 15/03/2011 14:21:05 It is very clear from Whitehound's arguments, that he is one of these individuals who will continue to argue no matter how stupid his argument is. It is something I have come across many times, which is mainly a result of two issues.
1. They like to feel that they are being different, and tend to make arguments out of everything...always liking to play the counter argument for the hell of it. They believe it wins them some sort of self worth, by trying to be clever. Unfortunately it really doesn't and just makes them look like a tool.
2. He is very young. Or at least immature in his social outlook. The young often have radical ideas, and argue them, often heatedly. Wiser men know better.
A third option, is that Whitehound clearly has some sort of vested interest in this debate, primarily that he has either bought isk, has knowingly received bought isk or is somehow connected with RMT at some level.
The fact though that he is now arguing over the user agreement, points more to the former two points... that he is basically just an immature boy who really needs to get some experience and wisdom of life. My advice if this is the case is, go outside, take up a sport and get a job that gives you a sense of pride and self worth. People who argue for the sake of arguing are very tiresome.
Edit:- FIRST on page 35!
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 14:47:00 -
[1024]
Originally by: Deane Adama Things which you do outside of the game have no relevance on your right to play the game (being a silent racist as you put it). But when the actions you do outside of the game which influence the in-game experience (RMT), it will affect your right to play the game.
So you agree with me and support me when I say that it is not just some rule you have broken that can get you banned. Thank you.
Originally by: Rodj Blake And if people think that you knowingly did it, they probably won't want to play with you again.
Could be if they cry a lot.
Originally by: Ingvar Angst There's a major difference between Eve Online and a game of Crazy 8's with your school buddies.
So you agree that it is not all the same and are supporting me, too. Thank you.
Originally by: Hannibal Ord It is very clear from Whitehound's arguments, that he is one of these individuals who will continue to argue no matter how stupid his argument is. It is something I have come across many times, which is mainly a result of two issues.
No. It is people like you who want to sell their view of the world and have others shut up. See that this is a forum where you can have an argument with anybody you like. So go ahead and cry some more. --
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Hannibals Commando's
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Posted - 2011.03.15 15:22:00 -
[1025]
Originally by: Whitehound
No. It is people like you who want to sell their view of the world and have others shut up. See that this is a forum where you can have an argument with anybody you like. So go ahead and cry some more.
No mate. Go out of your den, go look hard in the mirror. Any evidence, no matter how inconclusive, to stop RMT and isk selling is a good thing. To have you come here and argue otherwise is a farce. To have you come here and have an argument about the authenticity of the documents is a farce, since we are not idiots and neither are ccp. To have you come here and argue about the god damm EULA is a farce.
People are interested in how CCP deals with this, and a discussion about the information...nobody is very interested in a spotty layabout arguing about the bindings of the EULA or the legality of banning people or it's hypothetical arguments for and against.
The whole thing screams child mate, so you should just let it go.
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Alekseyev Karrde
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.03.15 15:24:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Hannibal Ord
Originally by: Whitehound
No. It is people like you who want to sell their view of the world and have others shut up. See that this is a forum where you can have an argument with anybody you like. So go ahead and cry some more.
No mate. Go out of your den, go look hard in the mirror. Any evidence, no matter how inconclusive, to stop RMT and isk selling is a good thing. To have you come here and argue otherwise is a farce. To have you come here and have an argument about the authenticity of the documents is a farce, since we are not idiots and neither are ccp. To have you come here and argue about the god damm EULA is a farce.
People are interested in how CCP deals with this, and a discussion about the information...nobody is very interested in a spotty layabout arguing about the bindings of the EULA or the legality of banning people or it's hypothetical arguments for and against.
The whole thing screams child mate, so you should just let it go.
This. ---
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.15 16:56:00 -
[1027]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Rodj Blake And if people think that you knowingly did it, they probably won't want to play with you again.
Could be if they cry a lot.
That doesn't even make sense.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 17:09:00 -
[1028]
Originally by: Whitehound Stop thinking of your strawmen. You better learn that there are no strawmen.
Yes there are. You are one of their prime producers.
Quote: I am still saying that you can get banned for what you did.
What you did is of little to no relevance. You can get banned for anything (including nothing). It is particularly of no relevance when people are breaking the rules, because that in and of itself is grounds for a ban.
Quote: So for example when you make racial remarks and get banned can you not just say that you broke the rules of the game. You will need to say that you made racial remarks.
Not really needed, no.
Quote: Yes, he will and because he is full of prejudices and then gets to experience it for himself.
àand what you keep misunderstanding is that by following the rules, he won't really experience anything.
Quote: I already told you. They are all accused of the same and there is nothing that makes one case different from the others.
You mean apart from being different accounts that pay different amounts at different times? In other words: they are not taking part in the same offence. Each individual case has to be investigated on an individual basis because there is no collective or communal entity or grouping that "the the bad thing."
Quote: A future situation may change this, but for now it stays a collective case. I am guessing you already found them guilty.
Other way around: right now, they are individual cases. After the individual investigations, it may turn out to be the case that a whole bunch of those are the same guy doing repeat offences, or that they somehow put in a group order and divvied up the cash (but good luck on proving that one). Only then can anything remotely resembling a collective case be constructed.
Quote: Wrong again. What you did or did not do is entirely relevant, even when you only think for yourself of what you did as breaking a rule
Seeing as how you can get banned for nothing, it most certainly is relevant because if you break the rules, they can justify the ban by saying that "hey, you broke the rules". ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 17:58:00 -
[1029]
Edited by: Whitehound on 15/03/2011 18:03:39
Originally by: Hannibal Ord Any evidence, no matter how inconclusive, to stop RMT and isk selling is a good thing.
No, you want to burn as many people as you can and with no mercy, because you are the one living in a den and who is looking too hard into his mirror, Hannibal.
Originally by: Hannibal Ord People are interested in how CCP deals with this, and a discussion about the information...nobody is very interested in a spotty layabout arguing about the bindings of the EULA or the legality of banning people or it's hypothetical arguments for and against.
This is only your false pretences. Most, like you, want their lynch mob. You do not give a crap about the people who are accused here. They are players like you yet you already found them guilty. GTFO.
@Tippia: I am done telling you. You do not want to listen. I get it. --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:24:00 -
[1030]
Originally by: Whitehound @Tippia: I am done telling you. You do not want to listen. I get it.
I can't listen if you tell me nothing.
If you want to say that you're done before you've started, that's your problem. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:25:00 -
[1031]
Originally by: Whitehound Most, like you, want their lynch mob. You do not give a crap about the people who are accused here.
At least we would grant the the courtesy of a CCP investigation which could possibly clear their name.
You would deny them that, damning them to a life of guilt by association.
Retro sig |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:29:00 -
[1032]
Originally by: Whitehound [Gibberish
Hey there Whitehound! How is life treating you today? Just thought I would see how you are, ask you again how much ISK you bought from iskbank. Come on, you know thats what you've done. There is no other reason AT ALL why someone would be jumping to the defence of possible isk buyers without even the possibility of having an even sided discussion about their possible guilt and what a suitable punishment should be. I'll break it down for you.
EVERYONE ELSE: "Hmmm, everyone whose name appears on that list should be thoroughly checked out by CCP before any action is taken. Action should ONLY be taken if it is absolutely certain that these people broke the rules, and then the punishment should be lifetime bans."
See, thats what everyone else is saying, now for you.
WHITEHOUND: "They haven't broken any rules. You can't read the EULA properly. RMT isn't a bad thing really and I don't think people caught red handed buying isk should be punished at all, we should show compassion. They could have gone to an external website and entered their credit card details, name and contact info then selected what ISK amount they want and to which character it should be delivered all by accident. Everyone else just wants a lynch mob. Cry moar. Lynch mob. Cry. Cry. Cry. Lynch. Cry."
Do you see the difference? Sorry about the "Cry. Lynch etc" bit at the end there, but the number of times you fall back on those two statements meant that I had to include them in a summary of what you keep saying. Everyone else here is more than well aware of the rules we ALL agreed to when we signed up to play EVE, and as such we ALL agree that if we break those rules we deserve to be punished. We ALL also agree that a fair investigation needs to be carried out on suspected RMT and botters, no matter where the information comes from. And we also ALL agree that punishment in the form of a ban is fair and just for those who are found guilty and that a pardon, public if needed, be given to those falsely accused or just found innocent.
Everyone that is, except for you. You seem to be of the opinion that RMT doesn't cause any harm at all, that those who persist in this act do not deserve any form of punishment. You alone, among all the other people posting here seem to think that RMT'ers deserve compassion and forgiveness no matter how often they break the rules. Im not sure what else it is that you believe as I have realised that no matter how hard I try, I just can't bring myself to damage my brain enough to understand you.
Perhaps you should consider taking a break from online gaming, go off somewhere nice and peaceful and get some therapy. We will still be here when you get back, and hopefully you will make a little more sense when you do.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:37:00 -
[1033]
/me turns on the fan to cool the atmosphere
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:39:00 -
[1034]
Originally by: Horizonist /me turns on the fan to cool the atmosphere
Bah, that will just blow the stink around.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:41:00 -
[1035]
Originally by: Avon You would deny them that, damning them to a life of guilt by association.
You are joking, right? Are you telling me now that you do not think they are guilty? I thought you were one of the lynch mob people. So what are they to you? Guilty until proven innocent or guilty because you say so?
Chances are CCP will not do anything about this list.
Originally by: Tippia I can't listen ...
True.
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys cry cry cry
Cry some more. --
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Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:44:00 -
[1036]
Originally by: Whitehound Chances are CCP will not do anything publicly about this list.
fixed
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:45:00 -
[1037]
Originally by: Whitehound You are joking, right? Are you telling me now that you do not think they are guilty? I thought you were one of the lynch mob people.
That's just one more of your legion of strawmen ù something you've invented for yourself so you can yell at people.
And if you ever want to actually say something, I'll listen. You refuse (because you have nothing to say, because you know you have no argument and because you have been proven wrong on every single thing you've claimed), so there is nothing to listen to. It's up to you to change this. Until you do, you only have yourself to blame for the tears you're now shedding. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.15 18:53:00 -
[1038]
Edited by: Avon on 15/03/2011 18:55:23
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon You would deny them that, damning them to a life of guilt by association.
You are joking, right? Are you telling me now that you do not think they are guilty? I thought you were one of the lynch mob people. So what are they to you? Guilty until proven innocent or guilty because you say so?
I was commenting on the fact that some have already suffered in-game just because they have appeared on this list. Without an investigation by CCP they will be presumed to be guilty. I'm not saying that they are or not - what I am saying is that if I appeared on that list you can bet your bottom dollar I would be demanding a full and open investigation of the allegations made against me. In Eve all you have is your reputation. The list is out there and the reputation of the people on it has been tarnished (like it or not, that is human nature). If they are guilty they should be banned. If they are innocent the should be cleared. If there isn't enough evidence they should go unpunished (not-proven under Scottish law)
That is why they should be investigated. I don't understand why you would be opposed to that, unless you are worried that you would somehow get caught up in the investigations.
Added for clarity: I'm not saying that CCP should publish the results of individual cases, just ban the cheaters and make a blanket statement to that effect. If people aren't banned after that then their innocence will be presumed whether they were innocent or not-proven.
Retro sig |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:07:00 -
[1039]
Originally by: Avon If they are guilty they should be banned.
I'm all for those proven to have purchased isk from this site to be punished but why banning? Not to say those who dropped thousands of rl dollars shouldn't at least get a 6 month ban or even a permaban but there are hundreds and hundreds of players on that list that only bought a little isk. Seems to me those could have been players who didn't know it was illegal to buy isk as most players do not read the forums or any of the rules after they join and then found out afterwards and never bought any again. Nuke their wallets for sure and make sure they know that they shouldn't do that again or face a lenghty ban or permaban. Then there are those that probably knew it was illegal but in a moment of weakness during an especially good firesale they dropped a $20 on some isk to get that nice mission faction ship they always wanted. Dunno about you but I like to give people a second chance as we are all human after all.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:29:00 -
[1040]
Edited by: dexington on 15/03/2011 19:29:44 I'm must waiting for Whitehound to announce that in fact everyone on the list is innocent, and if you are not on the list you deserve to be banned.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:37:00 -
[1041]
Originally by: Avon Without an investigation by CCP they will be presumed to be guilty.
Let them. You cannot make everyone listen. What ithen is more more important is that CCP should not be forced to start investigations just because someone anonymous or a smear press sends them a list. It needs to stop there so that no further lists will get published. rather disappoint everyone and make them give up or the mob will flood CCP with lists.
I then believe in CCP doing the right thing already and the last thing I want them do is to spend too much of my subscription money on chasing after every player only to prove they are innocent or to ban them. Some amount of botting and RMT is acceptable to me. Too much is not good and too much banning is not good either.
@Tippia: I am done telling you and I will also not listen to you any further. I do not care for you any more. Get yourself a parrot and talk to it instead. And when you do make a video of it. --
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:41:00 -
[1042]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu
Originally by: Avon If they are guilty they should be banned.
I'm all for those proven to have purchased isk from this site to be punished but why banning? Not to say those who dropped thousands of rl dollars shouldn't at least get a 6 month ban or even a permaban but there are hundreds and hundreds of players on that list that only bought a little isk. Seems to me those could have been players who didn't know it was illegal to buy isk as most players do not read the forums or any of the rules after they join and then found out afterwards and never bought any again. Nuke their wallets for sure and make sure they know that they shouldn't do that again or face a lenghty ban or permaban. Then there are those that probably knew it was illegal but in a moment of weakness during an especially good firesale they dropped a $20 on some isk to get that nice mission faction ship they always wanted. Dunno about you but I like to give people a second chance as we are all human after all.
Even those that only drop a little cash fuel the machine that savages the ecomony and the game. I could see a first timer being hit for a penalty of (isk bought * 1.5) though, but people shown to be repeat buyers... let the hammer fall. They knew what they were doing is in violation of the rules of the game.
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dexington
Caldari Baconoration
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:46:00 -
[1043]
Originally by: Whitehound Some amount of botting and RMT is acceptable to me. Too much is not good and too much banning is not good either.
lol, that has to be the most unintelligent/clueless comment posted in this thread.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:46:00 -
[1044]
Originally by: Whitehound @Tippia: I am done telling you and I will also not listen to you any further. I do not care for you any more. Get yourself a parrot and talk to it instead. And when you do make a video of it.
You say this a lot. It's never been true so farà
If you actually backed up your claims with arguments, rather than abuse, and if you provided examples and proof, rather than innuendo and strawmen, maybe people would listen to you. You should try it ù it works wonders. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr Omni Industrial Coalition
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Posted - 2011.03.15 19:47:00 -
[1045]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Avon Without an investigation by CCP they will be presumed to be guilty.
Let them. You cannot make everyone listen. What ithen is more more important is that CCP should not be forced to start investigations just because someone anonymous or a smear press sends them a list. It needs to stop there so that no further lists will get published. rather disappoint everyone and make them give up or the mob will flood CCP with lists.
I then believe in CCP doing the right thing already and the last thing I want them do is to spend too much of my subscription money on chasing after every player only to prove they are innocent or to ban them. Some amount of botting and RMT is acceptable to me. Too much is not good and too much banning is not good either.
@Tippia: I am done telling you and I will also not listen to you any further. I do not care for you any more. Get yourself a parrot and talk to it instead. And when you do make a video of it.
If, by investigating the people on the list they come up with at or near 100% validation of the list, then so be it. Even if it's a significant percentage then the list proved to be useful in weeding out the RMT buyers. Even more importantly, though, is that the list should also uncover the network of RMT sellers through the players delivering the isk and trace a path to the source, allowing mass quantities of isk, plex, etc. to be purged from the system.
Like I'd mentioned, single offenders should receive a monetary (in isk) penalty of at least 150% of the purchased isk. Multiple offenders should be banned. You can almost give single offenders the benefit of the doubt that they initially didn't realize what they did is inviolation of the accepted rules to play... multiples, though, almost certainly knew what they were doing and the risks involved.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:03:00 -
[1046]
Originally by: dexington I'm must waiting for Whitehound to announce that in fact everyone on the list is innocent, and if you are not on the list you deserve to be banned.
I will meet you half way: everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
And unless you are being stupid, why would I want to ban myself? --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:07:00 -
[1047]
Originally by: Tippia You say this a lot. It's never been true so farà
Would you listen if I told you that telling is not the same as saying?
(I am now asking, and not telling or saying.) --
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:13:00 -
[1048]
Originally by: Whitehound Would you listen if I told you that telling is not the same as saying?
I would listen if you provided an argument rather than a claim. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:19:00 -
[1049]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Whitehound Would you listen if I told you that telling is not the same as saying?
I would listen if you provided an argument rather than a claim.
So you would not listen if I told you saying and telling is not the same. Thanks. --
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Avon
Caldari Versatech Co. RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:21:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: Whitehound
I will meet you half way: everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
Guilty then?
Proof has been provided and no defence has been made. You may say it is terrible proof, but it still outweighs the defence.
I don't think you really understand what the presumption of innocence is.
Retro sig |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:22:00 -
[1051]
Originally by: Whitehound So you would not listen if I told you saying and telling is not the same.
I would listen if you provided an argument rather than a claim. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Zhim'Fufu
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:47:00 -
[1052]
Whitehound-><-Tippia
Ladies, please.
Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.15 20:51:00 -
[1053]
Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Whitehound-><-Tippia
Ladies, please.
^
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Bacchhus
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Posted - 2011.03.15 21:14:00 -
[1054]
Wow, this has become the dumbest thread I have ever read on the EVE forums (and that is really saying something).
P.S. Ban all cheaters.
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Hannibal Ord
Minmatar Hannibals Commando's
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Posted - 2011.03.15 21:21:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: Whitehound
.... because you are the one who is looking too hard into his mirror, Hannibal.
I do do this a lot. It's mostly because I'm a Brazilian god of a man. With beautiful chiselled lines of sexual running from my toes to my fingertips. Built from years of running and circuit training, and a fair bit of Judo. I also have a slightly posh, deep British accent, which those who have heard me also tell me makes their hearts melt. In the summer, I often go running on the beach. Sometimes when it's really hot I take my top off, and if I've been training I look like Adonis who has been glazed with the purest olive oil of Mount Olympus. Whitehound, when I look into the mirror I cannot help but get hard and I think "I should present this gift of evolution to the world, so others my appreciate."
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.15 21:56:00 -
[1056]
Originally by: Tippia I would listen if you provided an argument rather than a claim.
You do not know the difference between telling and saying? --
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.03.15 22:34:00 -
[1057]
_____________________ /| /| | | | ||__|| | | DO NOT FEED ME! | / O O\__ | I AM A HUNGRY | / \ | FORUM TROLL | / \ \|_____________________| / _ \ \ || / |\____\ \ || / | | | |\____/ || / \|_|_|/ | _|| / / \ |____| || / | | | --| | | | |____ --| * _ | |_|_|_| | \-/ *-- _--\ _ \ | || / _ \\ | / ` * / \_ /- | | | * ___ c_c_c_C/ \C_c_c_c____________
Nothing more to see in here... Please proceed to this thread for further discussion about rmt and botting.
Lock the topic as duplicate please.
------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :) |
Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:27:00 -
[1058]
Originally by: Whitehound Some amount of botting and RMT is acceptable to me.
This here is why drugs are bad for you. It is also pretty much the best confession we are going to get from whitehound that he does in fact purchase ISK from RMT sites.
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Lubomir Penev
Sausages of Truth
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Posted - 2011.03.15 23:33:00 -
[1059]
Originally by: Whitehound Some amount of botting and RMT is acceptable to me. Too much is not good and too much banning is not good either.
I shall sodomize you with a fire extinguisher, don't worry I'll only sodomize you a bit so it should be acceptable for you. There are no macrominers in EVE |
Jenk Makkanahr
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:28:00 -
[1060]
Seriously Whitehound, is there a chance you reveal the date of your marriage with Tippia?
And if "some botting and RMT" is fine for you, why don't you code your own "EvE online" ? There you can swirl your own rules all you want.
"The crime issss life. The ssssentence issss guilty."
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ArtieLange
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Posted - 2011.03.16 00:52:00 -
[1061]
In after the close.
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Perramas
Caldari Pan Caldarian Ventures
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Posted - 2011.03.16 01:08:00 -
[1062]
I heard this thread was closed.
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Remus Andromedus
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Posted - 2011.03.16 03:18:00 -
[1063]
CCP should just get it over with and ban Whitehound.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.16 09:51:00 -
[1064]
Originally by: Remus Andromedus CCP should just get it over with and ban Whitehound.
Start with showing how you get over it. --
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.16 10:17:00 -
[1065]
Edited by: Whitehound on 16/03/2011 10:18:06
Originally by: Jenk Makkanahr And if "some botting and RMT" is fine for you, why don't you code your own "EvE online" ? There you can swirl your own rules all you want.
It is acceptable to me, because the alternative is to increase the efforts to go after each EULA violation, which means more staff dedicated to searching and punishing players, and results in either higher subscription prices or less staff for working on the game itself.
So I choose the lesser of two evil and say that it is acceptable to have some bots and RMT in the game. --
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ArtieLange
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Posted - 2011.03.16 10:18:00 -
[1066]
Edited by: ArtieLange on 16/03/2011 10:18:40 I almost quoted the post before the one above this one stating something obvious, but the troll looked like he was hungry, so I shall refrain. Everyone else should do the same, he'll get bored eventually.
And in 12 hours after the lock request. Forum ****s not paying attention this morning? Shame on you, the fuhrer won't be amused.
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Seean Dimes
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Posted - 2011.03.16 10:19:00 -
[1067]
Edited by: Seean Dimes on 16/03/2011 10:20:09
Originally by: Remus Andromedus CCP should just get it over with and ban Whitehound.
That would be too easy and lenient. Ban everyone around him, turn his bank into negative with an amount which can't be covered by a few RMT purchases. Kidnap his relatives, burn down his house and infest his computer with replicators. After that, just watch how losing everything relates to a man who thinks that following rules aren't a necessity when the rules are only inside a ToS and EULA, not inside a book called "Criminal law".
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.16 10:30:00 -
[1068]
Edited by: Whitehound on 16/03/2011 10:32:29
Originally by: ArtieLange And in 12 hours after the lock request. Forum ****s not paying attention this morning? Shame on you, the fuhrer won't be amused.
Are you calling the moderators names? --
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Horizonist
Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.16 11:22:00 -
[1069]
Originally by: ArtieLange Edited by: ArtieLange on 16/03/2011 10:18:40 I almost quoted the post before the one above this one stating something obvious, but the troll looked like he was hungry, so I shall refrain. Everyone else should do the same, he'll get bored eventually.
And in 12 hours after the lock request. Forum ****s not paying attention this morning? Shame on you, the fuhrer won't be amused.
The mods are not obligated to lock a thread just because the OP requests it, especially not when other people are actively using the thread for discussions.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.16 11:53:00 -
[1070]
Originally by: Whitehound
PS: Cakes are delicious.
PIE is better.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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ArtieLange
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Posted - 2011.03.16 11:56:00 -
[1071]
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: ArtieLange Edited by: ArtieLange on 16/03/2011 10:18:40 I almost quoted the post before the one above this one stating something obvious, but the troll looked like he was hungry, so I shall refrain. Everyone else should do the same, he'll get bored eventually.
And in 12 hours after the lock request. Forum ****s not paying attention this morning? Shame on you, the fuhrer won't be amused.
The mods are not obligated to lock a thread just because the OP requests it, especially not when other people are actively using the thread for discussions.
Sure, but how often have you read "locked at the request of the OP"? This thread has deteriorated into
troll > reply > troll > reply > troll ... etc.
So a lock might not be a bad thing.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.16 12:00:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: ArtieLange
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: ArtieLange Edited by: ArtieLange on 16/03/2011 10:18:40 I almost quoted the post before the one above this one stating something obvious, but the troll looked like he was hungry, so I shall refrain. Everyone else should do the same, he'll get bored eventually.
And in 12 hours after the lock request. Forum ****s not paying attention this morning? Shame on you, the fuhrer won't be amused.
The mods are not obligated to lock a thread just because the OP requests it, especially not when other people are actively using the thread for discussions.
Sure, but how often have you read "locked at the request of the OP"? This thread has deteriorated into
troll > reply > troll > reply > troll ... etc.
So a lock might not be a bad thing.
I would rather see troll told to shut up and stop trying for the worlds biggest idiot award.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2011.03.16 12:15:00 -
[1073]
Whitehound's badly thought out arguments have been pretty successful in keeping the thread bumped, which in turn has raised awareness of the issue.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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ArtieLange
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Posted - 2011.03.16 12:21:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: ArtieLange
Originally by: Horizonist
Originally by: ArtieLange Edited by: ArtieLange on 16/03/2011 10:18:40 I almost quoted the post before the one above this one stating something obvious, but the troll looked like he was hungry, so I shall refrain. Everyone else should do the same, he'll get bored eventually.
And in 12 hours after the lock request. Forum ****s not paying attention this morning? Shame on you, the fuhrer won't be amused.
The mods are not obligated to lock a thread just because the OP requests it, especially not when other people are actively using the thread for discussions.
Sure, but how often have you read "locked at the request of the OP"? This thread has deteriorated into
troll > reply > troll > reply > troll ... etc.
So a lock might not be a bad thing.
I would rather see troll told to shut up and stop trying for the worlds biggest idiot award.
I think the mods are enjoying his attempts to derail this thread, and the way he's turning the thread into a farce. We need a block feature.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.16 13:08:00 -
[1075]
Originally by: ArtieLange So a lock might not be a bad thing.
Originally by: baltec1 I would rather see troll told to shut up and stop trying for the worlds biggest idiot award.
Originally by: ArtieLange I think the mods are enjoying his attempts to derail this thread, and the way he's turning the thread into a farce. We need a block feature.
So much win! More tears, please. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.16 13:29:00 -
[1076]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys First I am my own CEO, second I don't scam and third I don't accept money from people. Now, how much ISK did you actually buy from iskbank?
Your ignorance is what will make you cry, but you do understand that CCP will remove any ISKs that you have received from a bot regardless of what your excuses will be.
Just felt like keeping this going a little longer, for the lolz. As I already stated, I do not accept isk from people that I do not know, therefore any large sums of isk turning up in my wallet are automatically placed into a seperate holding area while I work out where it came from. If I don't know the sender and I can't contact them after 24 hours, the isk either gets sent back, or if it were a large enough sum I would contact CCP.
I am also almost certain that if someone were to purchase something of mine from the market for a fair market price, and that person decided to use RMT isk, I would not be penalised. No isk would be removed from my wallet unless there was clear evidence that my interaction with the RMT'er was clearly part of an ISK laundering operation, an example of which would be me selling cheap items at 20-100 times the market value and doing so repeatedly to the same group of players.
So as I said, I would not ever have to worry about being banned for RMT and thus would never have to come crying to the forums. All your posts show is that although you currently RMT and think it is ok to do so, deep down you know its wrong and that you deserve a ban. So come on, how much isk did you purchase from iskbank?
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.03.16 13:33:00 -
[1077]
Its like watching a sparrow try to fly in zero gravity. The knolage is there but it has no idea what to do with it.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.16 14:46:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys So as I said, I would not ever have to worry about being banned for RMT and thus would never have to come crying to the forums. All your posts show is that although you currently RMT and think it is ok to do so, deep down you know its wrong and that you deserve a ban. So come on, how much isk did you purchase from iskbank?
You assume that as long as you believe you are being innocent will others believe it, too, but this is not true. To give you an example. I know that I have not done any RMT, but it does not stop you from believing the opposite.
I doubt you actually play EVE the way you want us to believe. Checking every transaction, contacting the ISK givers, etc.? Really, you do all this?!?
I think you are lying for not wanting to admit that one can have good reasons to be worried. --
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Aeronwen Carys
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Posted - 2011.03.16 14:50:00 -
[1079]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys So as I said, I would not ever have to worry about being banned for RMT and thus would never have to come crying to the forums. All your posts show is that although you currently RMT and think it is ok to do so, deep down you know its wrong and that you deserve a ban. So come on, how much isk did you purchase from iskbank?
You assume that as long as you believe you are being innocent will others believe it, too, but this is not true. To give you an example. I know that I have not done any RMT, but it does not stop you from believing the opposite.
I doubt you actually play EVE the way you want us to believe. Checking every transaction, contacting the ISK givers, etc.? Really, you do all this?!?
I think you are lying for not wanting to admit that one can have good reasons to be worried.
Did you actually read the entirety of my post? Maybe you should go and read it again, then come back and write out another reply im sure you can find an adult to help with the long words.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.03.16 15:03:00 -
[1080]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys Did you actually read the entirety of my post? Maybe you should go and read it again, then come back and write out another reply im sure you can find an adult to help with the long words.
Yes, I did read it. From the lulz part to where you keep accusing me of RMT.
You got caught lying, kid. --
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KaarBaak
Minmatar The Mighty 13th
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Posted - 2011.03.16 15:25:00 -
[1081]
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
Just felt like keeping this going a little longer, for the lolz. As I already stated, I do not accept isk from people that I do not know, therefore any large sums of isk turning up in my wallet are automatically placed into a seperate holding area while I work out where it came from. If I don't know the sender and I can't contact them after 24 hours, the isk either gets sent back, or if it were a large enough sum I would contact CCP.
How often does this happen?? Granted I've only been playing for a couple of years, but I've never been 'given' isk...accidentally or otherwise. But it happens to you often enough to create this elaborate plan to deal with it?
Originally by: Aeronwen Carys
I am also almost certain that if someone were to purchase something of mine from the market for a fair market price, and that person decided to use RMT isk, I would not be penalised. No isk would be removed from my wallet unless there was clear evidence that my interaction with the RMT'er was clearly part of an ISK laundering operation, an example of which would be me selling cheap items at 20-100 times the market value and doing so repeatedly to the same group of players.
That's not how they (RMTers) do it.
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.03.16 15:48:00 -
[1082]
Locked by request of the OP.
Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online
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