We need skill points respect for Material Efficiency (Advanced Industry), because it changed behaviour.

Also, is there a way to see if you were outbid / see all your current team bids? The patch notes just say you get notified when the auction is over, which is kinda too late.

In the patch notes, i can read, that some mission issues got fixed, wich issues got fixed exactly?

System index in EVERY high sec system and most low sec systems is maxed. I know you will sell this as a feature and everything works as planed but are you serious ?
You tried to sold us this BS new industry changes as something good and ground breaking. And half an hour after you deploy this EVERYTHING is maxed out ?
removing slots was a really great idea. BTW your concept of people move around to less used systems. Someone at CCP didn't get the memo about that because there NO systems to move since every system is taxed the same.

While it is annoying that a lot of the systems have a very high System Index Tax (including the one I manufacture in) you obviously haven't scrolled through the facilities tab, because I can count at least 30 systems that have the lowest tax

System index in EVERY high sec system and most low sec systems is maxed. I know you will sell this as a feature and everything works as planed but are you serious ?
You tried to sold us this BS new industry changes as something good and ground breaking. And half an hour after you deploy this EVERYTHING is maxed out ?
removing slots was a really great idea. BTW your concept of people move around to less used systems. Someone at CCP didn't get the memo about that because there NO systems to move since every system is taxed the same.

huh? Sort by tax rate. All system shown. Systems are all 10% (or 0% for POS modules).

3) You can't make the giant honkin' blueprint window take up less space if, say, you just want to check on your jobs.

I have noticed a couple of things that would be nice to get clarified.

1. I have a POS and got as many ME/TE jobs as I could running before patch. However, when I go into Jobs, the Facility column is showing the station where my Blueprints are stored and NOT my various labs. Does this mean I can take down my POS and/or remove excess labs now without having to wait for jobs to complete???

2. I used to be able to go into the Corp Blueprints tab and look in the various Corp Division hangars which I used to organise various groups. When there was a BP with the stats I wanted to take, I could Right-Click and Deliver it to my Sales Hangar or Personal Hangar. Now, when on the Blueprints tab in Industry when I Right-Click there is no Deliver option. I have many of the same print and many prints so looking in the Inventory for which one I want is very time consuming. Am I missing how to do this now or an we have Deliver option back?

o7

To part 1, were the jobs being run remotely? By this I mean, Blueprints in the station using the modules in your POS?

If that is the case, we have moved all jobs that were running remotely to the station where the blueprint was based.

we need a way to track teams we are bidding on, to see if we got outbid

SO a successful deploy of a totally bugged patch. Doesn't anyone do tests before its sent into the wild?

Very confused about Invention jobs - how do I tell if an invention attempt is successful or not? The "Outcome" is a T2 BPC with the ME/TE values based on the decryptor used. But the "Deliver" button doesn't give me any additional information on whether I was successful or not. And if I hit it again" I get the message "The job cannot be completed as it has already completed".

I pointed this out in some feedback from the initial test server run, but Invention was broken at the time, so I didn't have a chance to re-test.

Got a specific point or have you just come here to be a tool?

First observation: Pre-patch I had a perfectly researched Orca blueprint, which took quite some time.
It was at ML=6 pre-patch.
Now I have a blueprint at 9%, and am looking at 257 days of research, and 828 MILLION ISK in research cost to make it perfect again.

You guys at CCP has got to be kidding me!

It has been a great 7 years mostly, but this screw-up is simply unforgivable.

Sorry guys, you really blew it this time.

First observation: Pre-patch I had a perfectly researched Orca blueprint, which took quite some time.
It was at ML=6 pre-patch.
Now I have a blueprint at 9%, and am looking at 257 days of research, and 828 MILLION ISK in research cost to make it perfect again.

You guys at CCP has got to be kidding me!

It has been a great 7 years mostly, but this screw-up is simply unforgivable.

Sorry guys, you really blew it this time.

I mentioned this earlier, it does say whether the job failed or was successful (I can only vouch for failed as all of mine did), but not obviously. As you click Deliver a red colouring scrolls across the job line and it says Failed vaguely in the background, but no other notification

Airing a complaint. if that's being a tool so be it. I would have been fired if I signed off and released buggy software.

it was communicated repeatedly this was how it would work

if you'd read the threads you would have known that if you put it into research pre-patch you'd have gotten a 10% bpo back

So there's a red scroll? I didn't see one. This is what I got after clicking "Deliver" and there's no indication of Invention Success/Failure: http://i.imgur.com/q2saASU.png

Installation costs are way out of proportion. They would be between 2 and 15% of basecosts as promised.

I'm tryint to install a job of ONE tristan (valued at 481K isk at the moment)

The install costs are 406K (in gelfiven)

That is 84% of base value!

First observation: Pre-patch I had a perfectly researched Orca blueprint, which took quite some time.
It was at ML=6 pre-patch.
Now I have a blueprint at 9%, and am looking at 257 days of research, and 828 MILLION ISK in research cost to make it perfect again.

You guys at CCP has got to be kidding me!

It has been a great 7 years mostly, but this screw-up is simply unforgivable.

Sorry guys, you really blew it this time.

WTB Jaguar BPO for 5b - Thanks to wonderful Crius patch which turned such prints into junk I can finally afford one I always wanted. "No blueprint gets functionally worse", right Greyscale?

That's insane. I was just quoted 114k for manufacturing 20 Rifters in Illuin. Have you tried closing and re-opening the UI, that has to be a glitch

after clicking around more I got a quote below 10k, but sill some POS assembly arrays are sometimes quoting around 400k for a single frigate run

This is a feedback thread though and as you weren't specific in any way I assumed you didn't have an actual complaint. I apologise if you do and if you say what it is, then maybe they can help

Industry interface takes up way too much pixel space. Also, pretty much frickin' intimidating. Good luck with people new to industry. You did finally lower the click count.

after clicking around more I got a quote below 10k, but sill some POS assembly arrays are sometimes quoting around 400k for a single frigate run

are we charged after the job is completed? I installed a ton of jobs and haven't been charged anything from POS.

are we charged after the job is completed? I installed a ton of jobs and haven't been charged anything from POS.

Click count yes, but I have so many bpos/bpcs that the scroll bar is such a tiny sliver I have trouble click on it so they REALLY increased the wear on my mouse wheel :)

The industry UI contains several crimes against humanity:

...

3) You can't make the giant honkin' blueprint window take up less space

...

To research a Naglfar BPO from ML 8 to ML 9 is 22.7bil is it really intended to be this high. the 108 days part is understandable, but 22bil? 22 BILLION!!!!!!

Thanatos to ME 9 in station: 19B. In POS: 102M (Both in pretty high indexed system)

If yer going to do the crazy thing for high ME on caps, you need a POS.

Customs Office dialog dies when a transfer from launchpad executed.

Edit: reposted to correct thread....

Thanatos to ME 9 in station: 19B. In POS: 102M (Both in pretty high indexed system)

If yer going to do the crazy thing for high ME on caps, you need a POS.

Got a specific point or have you just come here to be a tool?

Yeah i checked again and it dropped to between 400 and 800 mil in station.

I think the algorithms are still settling since they don't have any real background information on which to average the number of jobs in a system. They can't see oh this system receives 300 jobs every 24 hours. Right now they're just like oh there's 200 jobs in the 3 hours I've been logging so that must mean this system has 1.6k jobs per 24 hours.

after clicking around more I got a quote below 10k, but sill some POS assembly arrays are sometimes quoting around 400k for a single frigate run

Okay, after about 10 minutes of playing around, it seems as though the proposed idea of additional facilities giving bonuses in POSs seems to be scraped.

Why?

I mean, I'm not going to complain too much, because this just means that my empire industry tower is also going to be a fully fledged deathstar and pretty much impervious to assault while cranking out full production, but this seems like really bad balancing.

First observation: Pre-patch I had a perfectly researched Orca blueprint, which took quite some time.
It was at ML=6 pre-patch.
Now I have a blueprint at 9%, and am looking at 257 days of research, and 828 MILLION ISK in research cost to make it perfect again.

You guys at CCP has got to be kidding me!

It has been a great 7 years mostly, but this screw-up is simply unforgivable.

Sorry guys, you really blew it this time.

Actually, you blew it...
Had you installed it yesterday for just 1 cycle, you would have gotten a 10% print!

Uh, no, then it'd have been ML=7, which would also have been converted to ME9%.

We take whatever level the blueprint was at when the job started, convert that, and then when the job finishes add however many levels (capped at level 10) it was in research for.

This was mentioned sneakily in here Dev Post

The team bidding process is confusing. It's incredibly difficult to sort out what to bid on. Since the bonuses are all in one cell, in no logical order that I can figure out (not alphabetical, not largest first, not anything), it's difficult to find what you're looking for. Even with the filter for Fuel Blocks, the list is long and you just have to scroll through and manually look at every freaking cell.

Once you find something interesting, you go to bid on it. I put in my system and it tells me minimum bid. It doesn't explain WHY that's the minimum bid. On one team, it tells me bid 520,000 or more, but the existing order is 442,000. Another one tells me minimum bid of 440,000, but the current high bid is 460,000.

Very, very annoying.

Also in the devblog that went out last week :)

Uh, no, then it'd have been ML=7, which would also have been converted to ME9%.

If you click on the top of the cell it'll sort from best to worst.

Since it can be ME+ME, TE+TE, ME+TE, TE+ME then I guess they didn't want to make 4 columns to deal with this.

It's not to bad to sort it once and look over it, Just be careful to look and see both modifiers for those that have more than one.

Also in the devblog that went out last week :)

No...



Me:5+ +1r Ended up 10%
Me:3/4 +1r Ended up 9%
Me:2 +1r Ended up 8%
Me:1 +1r Ended up 6%

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I have clicked on the column Specialties and looking at the results, there is still no clear logic to the presentation.

For future reference, I would have been perfectly happy with this all being pushed back another 6 weeks so that it could have been finished to a higher standard. The quality of the UI work in particular is dissapointing. Leaving POSes in a half broken state is dissapointing. I'm pretty happy with the ideas behind the changes, but you clearly needed more time to finish implementing them.

considering its already been pushed back once, i hate to think what state it was originally in.

greyscale: I set installation taxes to "100%" on one of our stations. Did I just set the taxes to 100% of what they can be (e.g. now it will charge 10% of the install cost in taxes) or did I just double everyone's install costs?

If it's the former can the NET taxes be shown instead of "100%" before goons start picking up pitchforks and torches :ohdear:

considering its already been pushed back once, i hate to think what state it was originally in.

Worst expansion to date. CCP should be ashamed of itself.
New interface without guides or help on how to use it.
Massive changes to Industry with no in game guides or help on whats different.

You can put lipstick on a pig CCP but its still a pig.

I fear this is the beginning of the end of New Eden.

Worst expansion to date. CCP should be ashamed of itself.
New interface without guides or help on how to use it.
Massive changes to Industry with no in game guides or help on whats different.

You can put lipstick on a pig CCP but its still a pig.

I fear this is the beginning of the end of New Eden.

Believe that's doubling costs.

I'm pretty sure Incarna was worse.

Entitled themepark carebears are crying like babies. Excellent. Big changes that improve the sandbox can't be made without this type of people crying. It's just like removing a tumor.

This is definitely one of the best patch's ever. I can't wait for carriers/supercarrier/titan/t3 rebalance, POS changes and a new SOV system.

And so the dumb patch was released with stupid features that both take up too much window space by trying to be "pretty" and causing everyone in the industry business more grief by making stuff cost more, more, more and more.

WTS capital bpo's cos these changes are plain dumb and Grayscale should've been fired long ago.

P.S. If some dev/isd gets any ideas of me being "mean" to Grayscale, you should think about what happened last time he kept on pushing for the "all new unified inventory" and the drama that caused. Also, refer here

Nop, as it didn't break anything like this one.

I complained in the various threads before release that the new industry window doesn't resize and is unusable in small screens or multiclient-setups.

Never got any response from a GUI dev...they just proceeded and now everyone is as well complaining.

Great work in terms of usability....please redo this ugly big window, make parts of it collapsable or give the option of a trimmed down window.

I just checked out Lonetrek and discovered almost 80% of all systems had a cost index of near enough 100%.

How do I set the default input and output hangers. Every time I switch blueprints it resets to the main hanger.

I don't see any obvious way to do this.

Also, FYI, we have a large list of mission, dungeon, career and tutorial work that we will be starting soon.

To part 1, were the jobs being run remotely? By this I mean, Blueprints in the station using the modules in your POS?

If that is the case, we have moved all jobs that were running remotely to the station where the blueprint was based.

it was communicated repeatedly this was how it would work

if you'd read the threads you would have known that if you put it into research pre-patch you'd have gotten a 10% bpo back

And so the dumb patch was released with stupid features that both take up too much window space by trying to be "pretty" and causing everyone in the industry business more grief by making stuff cost more, more, more and more.

WTS capital bpo's cos these changes are plain dumb and Grayscale should've been fired long ago.

P.S. If some dev/isd gets any ideas of me being "mean" to Grayscale, you should think about what happened last time he kept on pushing for the "all new unified inventory" and the drama that caused. Also, refer here

Does that mean yes or no? I'm in the same boat.

You guys need to start using dev blogs and stop using forum/reddit.

Why were remote blueprints removed?... That alone will kill good POSs in empire.

Believe that's doubling costs.

It's STILL perfect in the same way it was before, i.e. higher level of research don't get any more savings.

We have a corp job, installed pre-crius. Now it's delivery location is change to a can, having 120m3 total capacity. The job's volume is 1100m3. How should I fix that?

It appears you have forgotton about everyone that doesn't do industry or manufacturing in game.



There's soo much stuff to look forward to in this patch... oh wait, I mean nothing.

As has been stated before, here or in the Issues thread, installing jobs at a POS requires funds in the associated corp wallet division.

Is this new behaviour the intended behaviour for now and the future, or is this an oversight of pulling funds from "installation owner" (corp) instead of "job installer" (player) wallet?

If behaviour is intended and will persist, please add an option for installation owners to configure the installations to require payment from corp or installer. The current situation is "difficult", to put it mildly.

Sorry mate, it was only communicated about 6 weeks ago, while it would have taken the fellow 4 months to research it to ME10, which would have yielded a 10% print. So you're wrong (but that's understandable, given that you're a goon.)

Sorry mate, it was only communicated about 6 weeks ago, while it would have taken the fellow 4 months to research it to ME10, which would have yielded a 10% print. So you're wrong (but that's understandable, given that you're a goon.)

I'm not one who gets annoyed all that often with the release / patches.

However,

the new industry panel is so clunky. i get a total of 4 yes FOUR lines at the bottom of my screen. Now you try to search, filter or plain scroll down through several 100 BPOs and several 1000 BPCs without tearing your hair out.

Go on CCP I dare you.

Fix the window so that i can minimize (shrink) the top materials part and search for my blueprints.

I am wondering what my CEO's reaction is going to be.

There's even an arrow that collapses the jobs list - this needs applying to the top section, so you can have the jobs list take up the screen without the massive round blueprint installer thing.

i.e. here http://i.imgur.com/cJt0C4R.png

GÇóTeams who are available for use but are unused (no active jobs) for a 48-hour period will cease to be available and put themselves up for chartering for seven days

So...my before-patch ME3 Leviathan is now screwed, and needs 522 more parts... that's just....no. :/
I'm not very happy with that. Is that even correct?

Why in the bloody **** do I need to pay to install science and industry jobs on my own lines in my own POS?

How does this make sense at all?

I mean, if I could open my slots to the public so I could profit from them then I could understand, but this is just ridiculous.

the excuse is you are now paying for the wages of the new NPC teams. what they forgot to think through though is you are paying this tax even if you don't use teams.

If that is the case, why do I not have the option to abduct them and shackle them to the labs?

Slave Labor FTW!!!!

the excuse is you are now paying for the wages of the new NPC teams. what they forgot to think through though is you are paying this tax even if you don't use teams.

I just can't believe my eyes.. Please tell me this is some kind of error and will be fixed soon. Before Crius I've invented several capital t2 rig BPC. I did usind a decryptor (Occult proccess) and managed to get them to very nice ME levels. It was ME -1. Now all this BPCs are at ME-9%, and quantity of materials needed to manufacture them is HORRIBLE. It is 20-30% greater than before Crius. So producing them is no option now, as it would be more profitable to just sell blue salvage needed on the market. So, you basically ruined all my hard job of creating these, they now only worth to trash them, no one will buy this junk.
I also have a bund of t2 Small Nozzle Joints BPCs. Before Crius they required exactly of 1 unit of 3 types of t2 salvage to produce - and to achieve that I used quite expensive decryptors I bought from markets. Now all of them require 2 units of salvage. Is it how transition should work? Screw it then!

For some reason CCP decided that whilst they were going to keep ME/TE on one side of zero (yay), they inexplicably chose to make all of the numbers negative.

All my nozzle joints t2 BPCs now have ME-8%, and they require 2 units of each of 3 kinds of salvage to produce. Before Crius they required only 1 unit of each kind.

I just can't believe my eyes.. Please tell me this is some kind of error and will be fixed soon. Before Crius I've invented several capital t2 rig BPCs. I used a decryptor (Occult Proccess) and managed to get them to very nice ME levels. It was ME -1. Now all this BPCs are at ME-9%, and quantity of materials needed to manufacture them is HORRIBLE. It is 20-30% greater than what I have on them right before Crius (IPH tools still shows my old resource requirements, so I'm shure about it). So producing them is no option now, as it would be more profitable to just sell blue salvage needed on the market. So, you basically ruined all my hard job of creating these, they now only worth to trash them, no one will buy this junk.

I also have a bund of t2 Small Nozzle Joints BPCs. Before Crius they required exactly of 1 unit of 3 types of t2 salvage to produce - and to achieve that I used quite expensive decryptors I bought from markets. Now all of them require 2 units of salvage. Is it how transition should work? Screw it then!

As for the increased material costs, I think all t2 BPs have new, higher material costs (invention no longer results in BPCs with material costs less efficient than an un researched BPO.) this includes owners of T2 BPOs

Correct me if I've got you wrong. Do you imply that increase in material cost was added just to counterbalance change in ME calculations, so resulting material cost after-Crius would remain the same? Than it's not the case - I clearly see that the same BPC that requred 78 Intact armor plates to produce just before the patch (all my skills already included in calcualtions) now require 90. Ninty! If it's not for some kind of bug in how values are displayed, then those BPCs are of no use, at least for long times to come, because I'm sure others created a tons of those rigs beforehand and will sell them under old price, exactly like in that old incident with t2 ships and extra materials.

i believe show info on a bpo does not take its ME into account anymore (and fixing that might save some devs a lot of grief)

I like how the math was simplified with the blueprint change of eliminating waste. It sucks that build costs aren't the exact same as they were, but it's very fair: everyone is hit by it and the market will adjust over time. Standardization of the blueprint data is also a welcomed change.

PS: I still can't make a post about this patch without expressing how silly it is for Sov Nullsec and W-space to pay ISK to some ethereal entity for job installations, and request this be eliminated in those two regions of space.

They added the Waste to the Base, and now you get Savings!...
Pizza Hut has a speshul, 2 pizzas for $10.. So 2 of them cost you $10.
next week that speshul is gone, But if you buy 2 pizzas (worth 7.50 each) you get 1/3 off.. You pay $10
Your getting roughly the same thing (output wise) that you were getting before...
Now, for those who say "but outputs are different"... Yea they are.
In the OLD days you had Round(Base*Waste), Now you have Roundup(Base*Savings).. So the "Change" there wasn't the standard, but simply a "Roundup" command now instead of a "Round" command.

I don't understand the stupid cost system at all...
Full bar = 2.5M ISK (System 1)
Full bar = 1.2M ISK (System 2)
Wat? I have to click through all the stations (which have all identical full bars for cost/workload) to see which one has the lowest cost? Yeeessss, eehrm noooooo. What is this even good for? Why can't you just adjust the tax?

Why should someone pay taxes in his/her own POS?

And why are most of the estimated prices broken? May this be the cause for the crazy high costs?

And please fix the stupid input field for bidding (it's the same for bounties). 2014 and you are unable to code a input field with pre-defined decimal separators.

the full bar is set way too low, you will have to use external tools

Did I miss, in my lackadaisical reading of these Cirus changes, that I am being charged a TAX at the POS?

I purchased, I transported, I installed, I keep fueled, I purchased modules for, I collect minerals for, I purchase BPO's for, I research BPO's and when I do a production run at that POS, I am charged a TAX? Am I reading that TOTAL JOB COST correctly... that I have to pay unknown entity to run that job?

Galmalmin

I paid tax when I purchased the POS.

I paid tax when I purchased the Charon to haul the POS and Minerals.

I paid tax when I purchase POS fuel.

I paid tax when I purchased POS Modules.

I paid tax when I purchased BPO's.

I pay tax when I refine minerals at a station.

CCP you will be collecting tax when I list the items on the market (agent fees) and you will be collecting tax when the end user purchases the item on the market.

CCP, you need to delete paying tax to run production at the POS.

I paid tax when I purchased the POS.

I paid tax when I purchased the Charon to haul the POS and Minerals.

I paid tax when I purchase POS fuel.

I paid tax when I purchased POS Modules.

I paid tax when I purchased BPO's.

I pay tax when I refine minerals at a station.

CCP you will be collecting tax when I list the items on the market (agent fees) and you will be collecting tax when the end user purchases the item on the market.

CCP, you need to delete paying tax to run production at the POS.

"Simplified"?... "Eliminated"?

Logically that seems backwards.
...
I don't think anyone understands how much of a ISK Sink CCP is making here.

Previously, ME was an abstract value representing waste that had to be converted using a different calculation depending on whether it was positive or negative to determine actual waste:

If ME was negative:
wasteQuantity = ROUND(baseQuantity * (baseWasteFactor + ABS(ME / 10)))

Otherwise, ME was zero or positive:
wasteQuantity = ROUND(basequantity * baseWasteFactor / (1 + ME))

Where baseWasteFactor = 10% (0.10) in most, but not all, cases.

Your final count of materials is: baseQuantity + extraMaterials + wasteQuantity



Now, ME is the direct reduction for material quantities on the blueprint (ie: ME-7% = -0.07). There is no more waste and there are no more extra materials, there is only possible reduction to total materials required.

Your final count of materials is: baseQuantity * (1 + ME)

So yes, the math is simplified and more intuitive.
And yes, waste is eliminated.


It's a huge ISK sink.

Supposedly, you're paying work crews because while you can automate PI facilities, you can't automate manufacturing facilities. That's fine. In Hisec, Lowsec, and NPC Nullsec, an NPC governing entity is in control of the systems under its domain. They theoretically supply the manpower, provide a police force/security, and a slew of other benefits that warrant increased costs.

In W-space especially, there is nothing there except what you bring with you. You pay taxes for produced goods that you import into the system, sure, but you also bring your own populations and your own crews. You can choose to enact whatever payment system you like, be it generously showering them with ISK and other material goods in exchange for glorious productivity, or perhaps whipping them and torturing their children if production falls in the slightest. You don't pay anything to anyone outside your little sphere of influence. In Sov Nullsec, you are the governing entity, with same results as W-space.

CCP wants this to be an ISK sink. That's fine. I still don't have to pretend it makes sense in the situations I described.