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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Samuel Wess
Torin Industries Happy Cartel
77
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Posted - 2014.12.19 04:33:13 -
[631] - Quote
Will we ever have some stable ship design ? It's confusing to change slots/bonuses every 3 months.
Walk into the club like "What up? I got a big cockpit!"
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Ciba Lexlulu
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
51
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Posted - 2014.12.19 04:45:29 -
[632] - Quote
Unusual changes. Will force many people to adapt (or quit).. Dscan has been too powerful imho. This will add a level of unpredictability to the game play.
To counter some of the issues raise and to balance combat recon unique immunity, may be their scan res can be nerfed abit. Which effectively allow a fast cruiser to align and warp out if combat recon drop on top of them.
Edit. Forgot to mention, overall i like the changes to Recon.. GJ Rise! |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
49
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Posted - 2014.12.19 04:46:45 -
[633] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Syzygium wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Syzygium wrote: or to have a Probing Alt all the time which is simpy annoying and fun-killing.. Stop being so anti social, even jerks like us have managed to find people that like scanning, you dont need an alt, you need a new friend, one who likes to probe. So what you say it that SoloPvP is bullshit at all and should be ignored or at least forced to dualbox all the time and all other forms of PvP should simply bring MORE PEOPLE (what is the final solution to all problems in EvE, just bring MORE...)? Yeah that sounds great. Also a great idea to bring someone who "likes to scan". Yeah. We roam 50 jumps and the guy needs 50times to drop Combat Probes to make sure we don't run into a faggotrytrap with our 3 cruisers. That makes so much sense. I think this "friend" will quit EvE on the third day. Thats not what I said at all, but good job winding yourself up like a gigantic baby over it. Solo PVP without a proper or alts right now is already full of traps and ambushes, for the average solo pvp guy, literally nothing will change, his day seeing a lachesis drop on grid will literally be no different than when an arazu decloaks near him. He will have literally the exact same amount of time to react, because in situation A, you can't see the pilgrim until he commits, and decloaks, he's got a 4-5 second delay in his actions, the Lachesis, you can't see until he commits, and he'll have about 4-5 seconds of warp deceleration PLUS targeting time that delay his actions. So lets not drag the solo PVP guy on this, post change his day isn't any worse than it was before. If anything he's probably rolling around in a RLML Rapier owning Garmurs. Second, if you were just running 3 cruisers with no alts theres a pretty good chance you were going to run into a 'faggotytrap'. Second if you're really roaming in 3 guys and you can see 10 dudes in local but dont show ships on scan your spidey sense should already be going off, and if not, one of your traps is probably waiting to kill you. Sorry, all the crap you're getting spun up about is something entirely made up in your own head Sorry but you obviously have no idea about living and roaming in lowsec. You simply navigate fast and your decisions to warp to or stay in a location, be it an FW plex, belt or the star entirely depend on what Dscan tells you. People in local give little to no hints who is in space because lowsec is full of stations where half of the people idle all the time. You have plenty of PI Chars, Cloakhaulers or Soloplexers that are in no way a target or a threat. No one goes docking in 5 stations to check who is docked before accepting a fight or not.
Also if you do not recognize the difference between a few recons decloaking next to you which gives you around 10 seconds to either warp out or maximize range and speed before they have a successful lock and landing on a grid with some already waiting recons (sensorbooster/remotesensorbooster anyone?) that have locked you 1 second after you have landed on grid, then you might want to watch a few great solo PvP videos and look how you can deal with decloaking recons in a fast ship. What you cannot do when you land and the sensorboosted recon is already waiting for you. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
14260
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Posted - 2014.12.19 04:47:00 -
[634] - Quote
Time to buy rooks!
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Cale Agittain
Calamitous-Intent Feign Disorder
0
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Posted - 2014.12.19 04:56:39 -
[635] - Quote
I think this d-scan immunity nonsense is a mistake.
According to the OP, the reasoning behind this change is to: "Give Combat Recons something to make them stand out as a unique and interesting set of ships"
Rather than dscan immunity, let's discuss some other ways to make combat recons unique. Say, a cpu reduction bonus for expanded probe launchers? |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
49
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:12:44 -
[636] - Quote
Well, they could simply give Recons an improved DScan Range themselves, maybe +20% per Level. So these Recons an spot enemies earlier or watch over locations while outside scanning range from these locations (unless for other Recons). They would be great for scouting or warning purposes along with their powerful EWar Support role without making them the ideal traptool for farming soloplayers. |
Tira Janau
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:13:03 -
[637] - Quote
Cale Agittain wrote:I think this d-scan immunity nonsense is a mistake.
According to the OP, the reasoning behind this change is to: "Give Combat Recons something to make them stand out as a unique and interesting set of ships"
Rather than dscan immunity, let's discuss some other ways to make combat recons unique. Say, a cpu reduction bonus for expanded probe launchers?
Ridiculous EWAR power and sizeable tank/dps I think is unique enough.
Syzygium wrote:Well, they could simply give Recons an improved DScan Range themselves, maybe +20% per Level. So these Recons an spot enemies earlier or watch over locations while outside scanning range from these locations (unless for other Recons). They would be great for scouting or warning purposes along with their powerful EWar Support role without making them the ideal traptool for farming soloplayers.
I think the dscan thing is a hardware/software limit thing (i've heard that explanation given, so I cant verify it), but if doable would be a very nice thing. |
Kontraband Venning
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
1
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:15:05 -
[638] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Kontraband Venning wrote:I don't normally post or get too involved in the rage over changes but as a FW small gang pilot I just couldnt stay quiet. This change will be terrible in the fw zone.
Small gang/solo rules for fw space after this change.
Never fly anything larger then what fits in a small. Otherwise you will be jumped. Never warp into a medium with others in system. Never sit in a medium. Never sit outside of a plex. Move out.
Or bring combat probes.
Its FW. They dont need probes to find your plex and warp in on you. So you have zero warning.
Lots of FW is Small ships. Gimping your fit to fit probes just so you can check every location to make sure your not going to get blapped. You would literally spend 90% of your play time using probes. |
Justin Zaine
The Scope Gallente Federation
106
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:16:55 -
[639] - Quote
If this is how they rebalance Recons...I can't wait to see what they think up for T3's.
That must be some good stuff being passed around the office.
Fucks Given --Perception/Willpower--
Skill at social interaction. 20% decrease per level to the number of fucks given in any particular situation.
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Ghaustyl Kathix
Rising Thunder
46
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:36:25 -
[640] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Theres no such thing as a brick tanked recon. They literally dont exist, they're all thin as hell. They're getting buffed. The resist profile should give a Curse, for example, an extra 20k EHP with fleet boosts. If you're solo or in a small gang, you probably don't have enough time to pop it before his friends join in.
Quote:You just grouped two of the smaller alliances in eve with one of the largest. I said massive and notable. I probably should've said "or" instead of "and" (it's late). But my point is everybody who loves this change are all in the beefiest alliances who don't have any trouble bringing more people to a fight.
Yeah, you do need scan probes to get to combat signatures, for example. But you can scan them, bookmark them, then wait for someone to start running the site before you go in. And as was brought up before, at least the cloaky versions have to decloak when they go through an acceleration gate, and have a period of time after decloaking where they can't lock on to anything.
If this change gets in, I'm probably going to be one of those people hunting site-runners with a Curse or a Huginn, but I think it's way too powerful for what it is. |
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2675
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:51:39 -
[641] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:\ Also if you do not recognize the difference between a few recons decloaking next to you which gives you around 10 seconds to either warp out or maximize range and speed before they have a successful lock and landing on a grid with some already waiting recons (sensorbooster/remotesensorbooster anyone?) that have locked you 1 second after you have landed on grid, then you might want to watch a few great solo PvP videos and look how you can deal with decloaking recons in a fast ship. What you cannot do when you land and the sensorboosted recon is already waiting for you. .
So you're saying as a good solo PVP guy you'd see six or seven people in local but pick nothing up on Dscan and you'd still warp to the out gate?
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2675
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:53:15 -
[642] - Quote
Ghaustyl Kathix wrote:, and have a period of time after decloaking where they can't lock on to anything..
Its 5 seconds. If you were guessing man, what number would you lay on the amount of time it takes a cruiser to decelerate from warp and then lock a target?
Would you say its more or less than 5 seconds?
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
1842
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:54:04 -
[643] - Quote
instead of the dcsan bonus (not saying i dont like it) but could be give the combat recons a bonus to cpu use on expanded probe launchers similar to the confessor? No scanning bonuses but the ability to fit it without gimping the tank. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3040
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:57:10 -
[644] - Quote
what if recon ships could see other recon ships on dscan
eve style bounties (done)
dust boarding parties
imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW
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Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
8
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:57:38 -
[645] - Quote
Richard Justice wrote:CCP Rise, can we have the neut amount bonus for the Pilgrim back instead or range please? Pilgrim operates in web range typically and so range is not really that much of a factor where as the amount of energy neuted is more so of an issue.
-D. Justice
have you considered the possibility that its time for the Pilgrim to change its brawling role?
maybe? just maybe?
(hint: buffs to base speed, align time, capacitor) |
Marlona Sky
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
5737
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Posted - 2014.12.19 05:59:22 -
[646] - Quote
Samuel Wess wrote:Will we ever have some stable ship design ? It's confusing to change slots/bonuses every 3 months. Somebody hold me back.
The Paradox
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Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
2168
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:11:03 -
[647] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Combat Recons will now be permanently undetectable by directional scanners Geeeeez... I'm by no means an authority, but this seems like an overly powerful ability.
A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
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Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
50
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:12:05 -
[648] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:So you're saying as a good solo PVP guy you'd see six or seven people in local but pick nothing up on Dscan and you'd still warp to the out gate?
lol. You obviously have never lived in LowSec. Six or Seven People in Local means *nothing* here, thats the usual case in like 95% of the factionwar systems and is in now way an indicator for a waiting gang.
And to your question: where to warp is completely dependent on system size, sec/corpstatus of the other locals and ship flown. Usually you warp to some celestials or bookmark to check activity via Dscan and then decide to look for an engagement or to leave. These cloaky-Recons are in most cases no danger, because you are long in warp or miles and miles away from them when they decloak and try to lock you.
Unfortunately with Dscan Immune ships, that brings nothing any more because the information that there is a Vexor in the Belt is useless if you cant know if that is a Vexor or a Vexor and a Huginn and a Rook and a Lachesis before you are actually there. And no, even "warp to 100" or such stuff does not safe you when they have simply put remotesensorboosted Lach+Huginn at 50. You are immobile 2 seconds after you land and thats "game over". |
Ransu Asanari
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union Mordus Angels
192
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:13:47 -
[649] - Quote
I think that the discussion of changing our in-game and out of game intel tools should be a completely separate discussion, and giving Combat Recons invisibility to DSCAN should wait until we've had that discussion and there's a solid plan and policy around what intel we want to reliably be provided from Dscan, Local, Combat Probing, etc. When you look at DSCAN/Local parsing tools and Killboards, a lot of the intel generated is very automated and fast.
Fixing ECM should be another discussion as there are lot of options on how it could be changed to be more balanced with the other EWAR choices.
That said, looking at the Falcon and Rook as it stands out now, there are two main problems.
The Rook seriously needs more Powergrid to be able to mix enough tank in the midslots to survive, as well as have a few jammers. Bringing it up to 750PG and reducing CPU by a bit in trade would make fitting it properly a lot easier. This is something has has been lamented for years.
In addition, I really feel the Falcon and Rook are missing a secondary role for fleet fights. A corp mate came up with this progression for how things work now for the Electronic Warfare line of Frigates and Cruisers:
Quote:Minmatar gets: T1 ships get Target Painting T2 ships get Webs on top of it
Amarr gets: T1 ships get Tracking Disruption T2 ships get Capacitor Warfare on top of it
Gallente gets: T1 ships get Sensor Dampening T2 ships get Warp Disruption on top of it
Caldari get: T1 ships get ECM T2 ships get **** all
You frequently see Huginns and Lachesis in large fleet fights acting as long range points and webs. You frequently see Curse helping neut out targets of interest or capitals. But there is no secondary role for the Rook except for Jamming.
The bonuses CCP Rise has suggested for the Rook are:
CCP Rise wrote:Caldari Cruiser Bonuses: 5% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile Launcher rate of fire 10% reduction in ECM Target Jammer activation cost
Recon Ships Bonuses: 30% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength 10% bonus to Heavy Missile and Heavy Assault Missile max velocity
So ECM has two of the role bonuses for Strength and Cap usage. Is this really necessary? Part of the fix will come when ECM is rebalanced, but as it stands, without a second role it really puts the Rook in a one dimensional place for fleet fights, which is why you don't see it a lot. It'll still work fine in solo and small gang fleets, but the Falcon is almost always preferable in those cases.
I honestly don't have a good answer for what the Rook's secondary role would be besides Jamming.
- Potentially something to help counter Drones, Missiles, or Bombs. That would probably fit more under a replacement/change for ECM.
- Giving it a bonus to Rapid Light Missile Launchers so it can help screen light tackle, and have the tank and resists to stay on field isn't a bad idea, but this role is easily covered by newer players in cheaper ships.
- The fact that it has bonuses to Heavy Missile rate of fire and velocity means it should be able to do decent DPS. The new Rapier is going to be a lot better at applying missile damage since it gets bonuses to both Web range and Target Painters - both factor favorably into the missile damage formula. The Orthrus already gets an interesting bonus to apply missile damage better - I don't think it would make sense to introduce it here.
Thoughts? Discussion?
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union - "Turning Lead into Gold since 2008"
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Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2675
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:18:05 -
[650] - Quote
Syzygium wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:So you're saying as a good solo PVP guy you'd see six or seven people in local but pick nothing up on Dscan and you'd still warp to the out gate?
lol. You obviously have never lived in LowSec. Six or Seven People in Local means *nothing* here, thats the usual case in like 95% of the factionwar systems and is in no way an indicator for a waiting gang. And to your question: where to warp is completely dependent on system size, sec/corpstatus of the other locals and ship flown. Usually you warp to some celestials or bookmark to check activity via Dscan and then decide to look for an engagement or to leave. These cloaky-Recons are in most cases no danger, because you are long in warp or miles and miles away from them when they decloak and try to lock you. Unfortunately with Dscan Immune ships, that brings nothing any more because the information that there is a Vexor in the Belt is useless if you cant know if that is a Vexor or a Vexor and a Huginn and a Rook and a Lachesis before you are actually there. And no, even "warp to 100" or such stuff does not safe you when they have simply put remotesensorboosted Lach+Huginn at 50. You are immobile 2 seconds after you land and thats "game over".
Whats remote sensorboosting the lach and huggin? Shouldn't you have picked that up on Dscan? Are they remote sensorboosting each other because that seems like they might have gimped their tank a bit. Why aren't you just killing them?
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
244
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:35:01 -
[651] - Quote
Btw this change will end all solo PVP in this game. Literally and completely, all the activity that FW brought to lowsec will die.
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Cartridgexxxx
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
5
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:36:11 -
[652] - Quote
d-scan immunity is a bit too much. if there must be an immunity to scan, it should only be there during the ship's CovOps cloak reactivation delay imo |
Lisa Sophie d'Elancourt
Empusa.
10
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:39:49 -
[653] - Quote
I don't like pilgrim nos/neut new bonus - this ship really doesn't need such a change. Rook unfortunately seems still to be a useless crap. Rest is interesting. |
Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
54
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:42:43 -
[654] - Quote
I have the feeling you have little to no PvP experience at all?
Lets say there is a Firetail in a Small FW Plex. Dscan is clear otherwise. You are in a Jaguar and decide to be ultracareful and "warp to 100" to the Plex. Unfortunately you land and notice the Firetail is actually outside the Plex at 50 remotesensorboosting a Huginn and a Lachesis which are also remotesensorboosting each other. You fall out of warp and around 2 seconds later you are pointed, (at least) doublewebbed and damped to 10km lockrange which leaves you with 600m/s at fully overheated MWD while all other three ships are a lot faster. You simply go nowhere, you cannot come into fighting range and simply die.
You can repeat this with mutliple sizes of trapgangs and baitships, all leaving to the point that you simply cannot warp anywhere anymore without risking to run into a no-way-out-camp in the middle of space. It really matters not if you fly a Frig, a Cruiser or a Battlecruiser, because you can neither leave nor dictate the fighting range. They just pin you down and chew slowly through your tank with longrange weaponry or drones. And thats something that cloaked recons could never do, because once they decloak you have plenty of time to warp out or at least get at fullspeed overheated (which means 3000m/s + in the usual lowsec ship) and have enough momentum to get outside of their tacklerange before they have locked you and accelerated themselves. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
244
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:43:18 -
[655] - Quote
Aralieus wrote:Wow!
Did they make combat probes not show up on scan as well? This doesn't give recons the ability to warp wherever you are instantaneously as soon as they jump into system. If a new recon warps in on you then any ship could have cause you weren't watching for the old as time tell tale ~combat probes~ on d-scan and probably deserve that recon in your anom.
Wow
You don't need combat probes to find targets in anomalies.
But after this change, you will need combat probes on every ship to see attackers, unless you are in nullsec. Dscan becomes worthless, and local even more important. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
440
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:46:43 -
[656] - Quote
MaxPower 519 wrote:Morwen Lagann wrote:Pilgrim without its neut amount bonus? One word: Ugh.
If you absolutely must put a range bonus on it, make it a small one and keep the amount one. Don't neuter the thing it was good at. With this change it's just a weak Curse with a cloak. Which isn't all that big a ~thing~ with the whole "invisible to d-scan" bonus that you want to give to combat recons. With these changes there'd be even fewer reasons to fly a Pilgrim than there are right now. As a Pilgrim pilot I would agree with this. I would like it if they just dropped the TD bonus and went for neut range and amount. Probably won't happen since TD's are the 'primary' ewar system for amarr. |
Kyalla Ahashion
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
14
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:51:23 -
[657] - Quote
ale rico wrote:[quote=Vadeim Rizen]this is so hilariously OP. inb4 recon nerf.
Since when do Combat Recons use covert cynos? Cloaky (force recons) are still d-scannable.
Force Recons are dscannable.... for the few seconds in which they decloak before they point you and cyno in friends.....
This just gives combat recons some parity with force recons. without also giving them a covert cloak. It's not a completely new mechanic, just half of an existing mechanic being applied. |
Catherine Laartii
Dominion Fleet Group Templis CALSF
440
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:54:16 -
[658] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:Kontraband Venning wrote:I don't normally post or get too involved in the rage over changes but as a FW small gang pilot I just couldnt stay quiet. This change will be terrible in the fw zone.
Small gang/solo rules for fw space after this change.
Never fly anything larger then what fits in a small. Otherwise you will be jumped. Never warp into a medium with others in system. Never sit in a medium. Never sit outside of a plex. Move out.
Or bring combat probes. Or, you know...friends? Aside from the curse, there's really not much that can stand up to a small, disciplined frig gang. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
195
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:58:05 -
[659] - Quote
Scheulagh Santorine wrote:CCP Rise wrote: Role Bonus: Cannot be detected by directional scanners
It is like a Second Christmas... This is going to be the gift that keeps on giving. |
Lelira Cirim
EVE University Ivy League
179
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Posted - 2014.12.19 06:58:53 -
[660] - Quote
Cartridgexxxx wrote:d-scan immunity is a bit too much. if there must be an immunity to scan, it should only be there during the ship's CovOps cloak reactivation delay imo You seem confused? Covops recons do not receive the immunity role bonus. They're already cloaked all the time.
_Do not actively tank my patience. || -á_Events Team -á|| -áUniWiki Team
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