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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
246
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:13:33 -
[661] - Quote
Lelira Cirim wrote:Cartridgexxxx wrote:d-scan immunity is a bit too much. if there must be an immunity to scan, it should only be there during the ship's CovOps cloak reactivation delay imo You seem confused? Covops recons do not receive the immunity role bonus. They're already cloaked all the time.
You seem clueless of the basic game mechanics, which is no surprise since you are still in kindergarten, learning this game.
Covert ops ships aren't cloaked or hidden from dscan all the time, they will show up on dscan whenever they use wormhole, stargate or acceleration gate. |
Aiyshimin
Shiva Furnace
247
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:29:22 -
[662] - Quote
P.S. Combat recons have been unique and interesting ships so far, there's absolutely zero need for the dscan gimmic that breaks the whole game.
The stats buffs are good and plenty enough to ensure combat recons have a place in solo, small gangs and fleets. Well, except armor fleets that is.
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Syzygium
Friends Of Harassment
The Camel Empire
60
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:35:30 -
[663] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Covert ops ships aren't cloaked or hidden from dscan all the time, they will show up on dscan whenever they use wormhole, stargate or acceleration gate.
... or while fighting or waiting uncloaked to fast-tackle someone with the help of (remote-)sensorboosters (avoiding sensor delay). |
hellokittyonline
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
93
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:51:04 -
[664] - Quote
wont show up on dscan? that needs to NOT be added. I solo pvp in low sec and guarantee its going to break the ever-living-**** out of solo roaming.
With offgrid boosting, skynet, and a plethora of other pay to win opportunities the last thing lowsec in particular needs is another way for all the "coolbros" to get easy kills. |
Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
8
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:57:05 -
[665] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Time to buy rooks!
the time to buy rooks was 2012 when they were 85mil
2 slow |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION
The Obsidian Front
583
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Posted - 2014.12.19 07:57:31 -
[666] - Quote
I'm sitting on the fence with the ComRec changes to D-Scan immunity.
To me, I thought that the ships would be given more focus to a "role" rather than becoming the same through indirect means.
The Force Recons (ForRec's) are the sneaky beaky type ones. They should have strong E-WAR and decent mobility but poor tanks and poor offensive capability. They are CovOps after all.
The ComRecs should have been the true "Fleet E-WAR" platforms. Essentially HAC's but instead of offensive capability the use E-WAR. |
Suzuma
Makiriemi Industries
8
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:00:00 -
[667] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:what if recon ships could see other recon ships on dscan
Rise you need to listen to this guy :) |
Skyler Hawk
The Ironmongery
34
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:00:14 -
[668] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:
Such as D-scan? Is that one of the tools provided?
sure, and now it isn't perfect
Please provide a definition of 'perfect' that could reasonably be applied to the current implementation of d-scan or the intel it provides. TYIA.
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hellokittyonline
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
93
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:02:59 -
[669] - Quote
Also if you want ships to fall in line with t3s just make isk actually matter, the only reason t3s are op is because scrubs can get a pimped out one for 15 bucks or a few hours of incursions. T3s becoming overused is a perfect example of how isk faucets like incursions affect the meta. If its too easy to get e-rich (or too cheap to get e-rich with real life money) anything with even the slightest advantage will be abused no matter the cost because the risk has been made negligible due to inflation. |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14262
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:05:47 -
[670] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Btw this change will end all solo PVP in this game. Literally and completely, all the activity that FW brought to lowsec will die.
You say this while I excitedly get ready to use solo rooks.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die
Retribution.
193
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:05:58 -
[671] - Quote
So curse and latch become overpowered and the pilgrim gets nerfed (again).
at least the recon bits for combats actually means something now |
Lelob
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:12:48 -
[672] - Quote
Well this is just dissapointing. A curse is STILL worthless. The only good tank a curse could hope to get was from shields, and you are now removing shields and adding to hull wtf. Having a crappy tank, mediocre dps and kinda meh bonuses makes this crap. TD's cannot be reliably fit unless you armour tank, which is beyond ******** on a 4 lowslot tank. Removing shield mods for td's makes a curse worthless for fleet engagements because they always get primaried and will just get instapopped with the crappy tank. Neuts are not nearly as useful as something like ecm, first because they have a HARD range of 37.8km and second because medium neuts off a curse don't really neut enogh to be a threat unless they are neuting you over an extended time period, which never happens because they always get primaried because they have terrible tanks. Assuming t2 resists will resemble the zealot, then this is just bs, because amarr t2 has terribad shield em/therm resists.
The drone bonus is far less useful then you might think though because anyone with 1/2 a brain against just a curse will immediately kill your drones and laugh as you fail to kill them. Because you only really can have 2 flights of mediums (you need small drones to kill off frigs) this is a big deal. More to the point, this is in no way better then an ishtar. An ishtar has a better tank with the mwd sig reduction, can fit 3 medium neuts and run 2 of them fairly long, is still probably fastter and does wayyyy more dps. If you want to try a solo curse you are better 99% of the time with just buying an ishtar. If you are wanting to do fleet things, you are better off in flying a rook, which can actually have a shield tank and jam things (as opposed to td's), or a huggin/lach which can do range control far, far, far better then a curse ever could.
tldr: Curse still sucks at solo and gang engagements. |
Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
623
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:18:35 -
[673] - Quote
I knew Recon 5 was a sound investnment  |
Lelob
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:21:11 -
[674] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Moac Tor wrote:Kontraband Venning wrote:I don't normally post or get too involved in the rage over changes but as a FW small gang pilot I just couldnt stay quiet. This change will be terrible in the fw zone.
Small gang/solo rules for fw space after this change.
Never fly anything larger then what fits in a small. Otherwise you will be jumped.
Never warp into a medium with others in system.
Never sit in a medium.
Never sit outside of a plex.
Move out.
Or bring combat probes. Or, you know...friends? Aside from the curse, there's really not much that can stand up to a small, disciplined frig gang.
Wut. A "disciplined" frig gang will just kill the curse's drones and lol into the sun about the curse kill they just got. Alternatively, if they see that someone is being td'd, someone is being pointed, the curse had an mwd, and nobody is being nos'd (very high chance of a cap booster) then they will know that the curse has AT best a 2-3 slot tank and will get roasted by just killing it and ignoring the drones. Considering most af's get a wonderful sig bonus nowadays and a big tank, I'd happily fight a curse stupid enough to engage me in a frig gang of 3+ people. |
Lachesiss
nomnomnom MOAR BABIES
The Pursuit of Happiness
20
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:23:17 -
[675] - Quote
Somewhere in a Wh
"OK guys nothing on scan only 2 sleepers left"
"yeah awesome day making isk"
"Still nothing on scan"
"yep looks all clear and WWOOOAAAaaaaaaa"
"holy ****, where did those 10 curse come from"
"ah crap there goes my 5 bill ship"
Im sooooo gonna love this 
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baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14262
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:24:25 -
[676] - Quote
Love these threads, we have one guy moan about how the curse is now overpowered instantly followed by someone else flailing around decrying the the curse is near useless.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Lelob
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:24:54 -
[677] - Quote
Ransu Asanari wrote:
You frequently see Huginns and Lachesis in large fleet fights acting as long range points and webs. You frequently see Curse helping neut out targets of interest or capitals. But there is no secondary role for the Rook except for Jamming.
Anyone dumb enough to use a curse probably has no idea what they're doing. If people want to neut stuff out nowadays, they use bhalgorns or legions (Rich WH people) or geddons, domis or ishtars (not rich wh people). All of the above neut out more cap then a curse does with the exception of the ishtar, but the ishtar makes up for it by packing insanely imbalanced dps and having a stupidly good tank with a sig reduced mwd. |
knobber Jobbler
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
493
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:28:09 -
[678] - Quote
Every fleet right now is made up of Ishtars, so they do a balance pass on recons. GG CCP. Here's an obligatory do you even play this game comment. |
Lelob
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:28:35 -
[679] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote:why the literal **** isnt the curse getting a 5th low? do you still want shield tanking curses? i mean thats totaly un amarr. I know right! Thats like minmatar having to armor tank a muninn... oh? That exists.. probably deal with it like minny pilots do. You at least have wtfpwn neuts going for you. Well look on the brightside, at least your kin and explo resists will be really high. deal with what? how minni pilots can change tanks on a whim and amarr cant? ok no thanks i dont want a shield curse i want a god dam armor curse. 4 lows on a punisher is one thing but on a ******* CRUISER designed to be armor tanked is another. especially when your always forced to have a stupid reactor control on it.
Here's a good solution. Make the curse, AS AN AMARR SHIP, capable of armour tanking. Man wouldn't that be novel. |
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
14262
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:30:16 -
[680] - Quote
knobber Jobbler wrote:Every fleet right now is made up of Ishtars, so they do a balance pass on recons. GG CCP. Here's an obligatory do you even play this game comment.
Its not the ishtars that need nerfing its the drone they use.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
1931
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:37:21 -
[681] - Quote
Lelob wrote:Well this is just dissapointing. A curse is STILL worthless. The only good tank a curse could hope to get was from shields, and you are now removing shields and adding to hull wtf. Having a crappy tank, mediocre dps and kinda meh bonuses makes this crap. TD's cannot be reliably fit unless you armour tank, which is beyond ******** on a 4 lowslot tank. Removing shield mods for td's makes a curse worthless for fleet engagements because they always get primaried and will just get instapopped with the crappy tank. Neuts are not nearly as useful as something like ecm, first because they have a HARD range of 37.8km and second because medium neuts off a curse don't really neut enogh to be a threat unless they are neuting you over an extended time period, which never happens because they always get primaried because they have terrible tanks. Assuming t2 resists will resemble the zealot, then this is just bs, because amarr t2 has terribad shield em/therm resists.
The drone bonus is far less useful then you might think though because anyone with 1/2 a brain against just a curse will immediately kill your drones and laugh as you fail to kill them. Because you only really can have 2 flights of mediums (you need small drones to kill off frigs) this is a big deal. More to the point, this is in no way better then an ishtar. An ishtar has a better tank with the mwd sig reduction, can fit 3 medium neuts and run 2 of them fairly long, is still probably fastter and does wayyyy more dps. If you want to try a solo curse you are better 99% of the time with just buying an ishtar. If you are wanting to do fleet things, you are better off in flying a rook, which can actually have a shield tank and jam things (as opposed to td's), or a huggin/lach which can do range control far, far, far better then a curse ever could.
tldr: Curse still sucks at solo and gang engagements.
WHAAAT? The curse worthless? It can defeat basically any turreted subcapital ship in this game.
I am not sure if serious or trolling. Comapring a RECON witht he ishtar.. the most OP of the HACs (that are already supposed to be more pwoerful in direct combat)
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
1931
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:38:09 -
[682] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:knobber Jobbler wrote:Every fleet right now is made up of Ishtars, so they do a balance pass on recons. GG CCP. Here's an obligatory do you even play this game comment. Its not the ishtars that need nerfing its the drone they use.
Although if they coudl field only 4 of them each time that would work as well... (although would push things to Domi online only)
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
1931
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:39:04 -
[683] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Love these threads, we have one guy moan about how the curse is now overpowered instantly followed by someone else flailing around decrying the the curse is near useless.
That means it is very likely well balanced.... as long as the complains on both sides are balanced.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Tikktokk Tokkzikk
The Imperial Fedaykin
Amarrian Commandos
190
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:42:22 -
[684] - Quote
The D-scan immunity makes combat recons just as strong as force recons (unlike everyone else, I think they're balanced), so they should have equal e-war capabilities (looking at you, Pilgrim's neut amount). |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5846
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:43:58 -
[685] - Quote
Recons immune to D-Scan.
This might have worked back when one had to actually scan down every site. Back when you can "stealth" with ECCMs in the mids and force them to put the combat probes in closer.
Now it's suicide.
Why even leave highsec?
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
1931
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 08:46:12 -
[686] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
yeah you are. Here it is. Anything that is cloaked has a delay when the uncloak before they can lock something. So true you can't detect them, but when they uncloak they have to wait 5sec or more before they can start locking you. So when they show up on grid a guy still has a several second window where he has the possibility of escape.
!
Smart players already avoid that. You cannot lock or do anything for about 3 seconds after you enter grid and are finishign your stop in a cruiser nowadays. Smart people just turn their cloak of a few thousand KM before the end of the warp. And VOIL+ü!! They can already do the EXACT same thing as the combat recons will be able to do!
The combat recons will have ZERO advantage onthat scenario over the force recons. The uncloak -> lock delay only mattered for when you were already hidden on grid and approaching slowly.. somethign that the combat recons cannot even envision to do
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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hellokittyonline
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
94
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:49:49 -
[687] - Quote
I'm wondering why people see the need to compare the combat v force recons on the same platform, they serve different roles. Might as well just remove one of them and just have 1 recon cruiser per race. Also I feel the need to repeat that the DSCAN immunity is going to be ******* broken |
Lelob
ElitistOps
Pandemic Legion
196
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Posted - 2014.12.19 08:52:13 -
[688] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Lelob wrote:Well this is just dissapointing. A curse is STILL worthless. The only good tank a curse could hope to get was from shields, and you are now removing shields and adding to hull wtf. Having a crappy tank, mediocre dps and kinda meh bonuses makes this crap. TD's cannot be reliably fit unless you armour tank, which is beyond ******** on a 4 lowslot tank. Removing shield mods for td's makes a curse worthless for fleet engagements because they always get primaried and will just get instapopped with the crappy tank. Neuts are not nearly as useful as something like ecm, first because they have a HARD range of 37.8km and second because medium neuts off a curse don't really neut enogh to be a threat unless they are neuting you over an extended time period, which never happens because they always get primaried because they have terrible tanks. Assuming t2 resists will resemble the zealot, then this is just bs, because amarr t2 has terribad shield em/therm resists.
The drone bonus is far less useful then you might think though because anyone with 1/2 a brain against just a curse will immediately kill your drones and laugh as you fail to kill them. Because you only really can have 2 flights of mediums (you need small drones to kill off frigs) this is a big deal. More to the point, this is in no way better then an ishtar. An ishtar has a better tank with the mwd sig reduction, can fit 3 medium neuts and run 2 of them fairly long, is still probably fastter and does wayyyy more dps. If you want to try a solo curse you are better 99% of the time with just buying an ishtar. If you are wanting to do fleet things, you are better off in flying a rook, which can actually have a shield tank and jam things (as opposed to td's), or a huggin/lach which can do range control far, far, far better then a curse ever could.
tldr: Curse still sucks at solo and gang engagements. WHAAAT? The curse worthless? It can defeat basically any turreted subcapital ship in this game. I am not sure if serious or trolling. Comapring a RECON witht he ishtar.. the most OP of the HACs (that are already supposed to be more pwoerful in direct combat)
Assuming this is solo/very small gang, where the td is really only capable of being fitted onto a curse due to the tank loss, anyone with a brain would just bumrush the curse, scram it and own face or disengage.
I'll give some examples of other common turret ships that might be fielded:
Vagabond: Can tank the curse for an extremely long time, while killing drones. That assumes he screwed up and didn't try to scram the curse, seens how it's now the big meta to have a asb scram vaga.
Deimos: Either he's rail fit and tries to snipe you and when he fails because of td he runs away OR he's blaster fit, which gurantees a scram and blamo he scrams the curse, nukes him with his sick dps and keeps his own stuff on with a nos. The curse might be able to win this if he makes the deimos chase after him like a dummie and neut him out, but that also assumes buffer fit without a cap booster. One of the big metas nowadays is a cap booster with a medium ancil armor repper. So if he gets neuted and nos'd he, simply cap boosts away to freedom or kills the curse. Either way the deimos wins.
Nomen? They all have cap boosters nowadays and so he probably disengages. He's fast enough that no curse can catch him.
Vigilant: New meta is rails, when the vigi get's td'd he disengages. He has vastly better speed/agility then a curse so he would have to be beyond stupid to get neuted out by a curse.
Cynabal: charge curse, own him with autocannons at short range, ezy pzy. If you have a long point instead of scram you run away
SFI: Cap boosted so he either runs away or gets a scram and laughs into the sun
THAT SAID, most solo pvpers now are in either ishtars or cerbs, both of which **** out curses for breakfast. Most ratters are also in either ishtars or gilas or carriers too, so again nbd.
If you fitted td's on a curse in a gang situation, you're already dead because either:
1. You tried fitting a 4 slot armour tank and got instapopped.
2. You tried fitting a td to a shield tank and got instapopped. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
The Pursuit of Happiness
1932
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 08:53:47 -
[689] - Quote
hellokittyonline wrote:I'm wondering why people see the need to compare the combat v force recons on the same platform, they serve different roles. Might as well just remove one of them and just have 1 recon cruiser per race. Also I feel the need to repeat that the DSCAN immunity is going to be ******* broken
Will only be meaningful on WH and maybe FW sites. Every other activity already relies in local 10 times more than in DSCAN.
Unfortunately the sensors mechanics in this game are too simplistic. The directional scanner should never be absolute. It should always have a chance of detecting something, and each ship would be a different chance, based on their signature againdt he scanning sensor strenght. Then would be easier and more balanced to just give a BONUS to the combat recons on that.
This also would create a good reason to keep a fleet small, because less hips woudl mean less likely to be detected. But we are stuck with a primitive and oversimplistic mechanic.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
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Zappity
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
1653
|
Posted - 2014.12.19 08:57:57 -
[690] - Quote
Adam C wrote:for trolly ideas i would of preferred combat recons dont appear in local but on dscan. is that even possible :D
Oh yes, PLEASE do that but for the Force Recons! No local would make them perfect solo and scout ships.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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