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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1896
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:36:24 -
[1231] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:Yeh I guess it does a bit :o (no hard feelings Rise... it's just a terribly thought out idea) And no it's a well thought out idea and will do just what they want it just sucks for the players It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces. Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase...
No it mean ccp thought this out a well thought out idea/=a good idea
And it doesn't matter what task they make us do it will be forced and arbitrary
Citadel worm hole tax
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Ria Nieyli
43384
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:43:35 -
[1232] - Quote
-
"slang" is shortened language for "shortened language"
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
533
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:43:36 -
[1233] - Quote
Mr Floydy wrote:It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces.
Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase...
Same was with skill trading. Implemented.
Same will be with this.
Actually I would go further. Increased SP gain by logged players. Times are changing. Players are getting older, new blood don't come by broad stream, "Hardcore Rise" is thinking he's creating sandbox environment...
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1896
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Posted - 2016.04.12 08:55:27 -
[1234] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Mr Floydy wrote:It clearly isn't well thought out, there wouldn't be 60+ pages of people saying "this idea is awful" and picking it to pieces.
Forcing people to login for an arbitrary task is stupid. If it was open to all sorts of content rather than being just shooting a red cross daily it would actually drive some gameplay. The idea as it stands achieves nothing but pissing off a large amount of the playerbase... Same was with skill trading. Implemented. Same will be with this. Actually I would go further. Increased SP gain by logged players. Times are changing. Players are getting older, new blood don't come by broad stream, "Hardcore Rise" is thinking he's creating sandbox environment...
Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job
Citadel worm hole tax
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Ben Ishikela
67
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:05:53 -
[1235] - Quote
outragous!
--- well, let me think about it. ---
10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP*10kSP ) for using skill injectors.
That is ca one Relic/Data Site.
How many PvE Sites? So what about an increase in Bounty for the first rat shot? Highly exploitable, right?
--- To further add on this:---
We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more.
Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times.
if someone had like more than 17.5 milion income per CharacterChangeTime on one character, then he wouldnt bother. CarrierRatting still a thing after expansion?
Also this is ca.50mil per day per account. Payment after 50days of "activity".
Dayly activity, hmmm? What about all the other Needed things that need to be done that are not measurable and mentioned above several times (like recruitment/scouting).
Well, i guess one could just warp to a belt and shoot something directly after logging in and then sort his stuff. or can he? In Jita/etc he cannot. (well he can, but its more time consuming. rising the time-cost)
In a competitive environment like eve that would be a cost of 17.5mi per day to have a character doing neccessary stuff without combat capabilities. You dont have that step in other MMOs where something like it is implemented.
===> Or do you want to introduce a mechanic that puts negative pressure on population density?
Then Say So, So We Can Help To Come Up With An Idea!!!
+1 for more economic gameplay opportunities and meaningful choices. (like autopilot to zero, convoy NPCs (noJF), asteroid spawn distribution metrics, ....
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
533
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:13:12 -
[1236] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job
Sure but if you gain, let's say 10% more SP if are logged but without dailies is not that unacceptable imo. That's why I asked if there is a mechanism that's kicking AFK players. That way you promoting players that stay online and can do whatever they want and still don't punish unlogged (passive gaining system still an good option).
Core foundation is already changed. SP can be traded. CCP will push dailies anyway. I think we need to find compromise how to reward players that logging more often in other way than mindless PvE activity.
I don't like the course this game is going. I don't like SP trading. I hate dailies idea, but some devs are fixated on how many players are online.
"(...) I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas (...)"
"Here in the garden of the arcane delights dark shadows overwhelm us and and we become blind..."
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
331
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:19:46 -
[1237] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
New content is about
- new ships
- new structures
- new modules (or module changes)
- new game mechanics
...
That's tools not content=ƒÿë
And we have enough tools ;)
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Calima Arzi
Risk Breakers
Snuffed Out
20
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:21:52 -
[1238] - Quote
10,000 skill points per toon per day. A skill injector gives 400,000 (on average) - so it's a skill injector per 40 days. One plex is worth about two skill injectors. So one plex per 80 days - call it three months.
So CCP are offering skill points to the value of four plexes, per year, per character - that's twelve plex per year per account - for doing daily, repetitive, grindy tasks.
Twelve plex per year is more than many of us can afford to turn down, which is the problem. If it was capped in some way - say, up to your first three million skillpoints - or less valuable - perhaps two or three plex per year - it wouldn't be an issue.
The rewards are too high to ignore, but cycling through all characters every day is work, not play.
Twelve plex per account per year for this? No. Sorry, no. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1899
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:27:29 -
[1239] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Sure but if you gain, let's say 10% more SP if are logged but without dailies is not that unacceptable imo. That's why I asked if there is a mechanism that's kicking AFK players. That way you promoting players that stay online and can do whatever they want and still don't punish unlogged (passive gaining system still an good option). Core foundation is already changed. SP can be traded. CCP will push dailies anyway. I think we need to find compromise how to reward players that logging more often in other way than mindless PvE activity. I don't like the course this game is going. I don't like SP trading. I hate dailies idea, but some devs are fixated on how many players are online.
That's still telling me how and how long to play
I can make an impact on the game without my character being in the game
Citadel worm hole tax
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1899
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:29:10 -
[1240] - Quote
Calima Arzi wrote:10,000 skill points per toon per day. A skill injector gives 400,000 (on average) - so it's a skill injector per 40 days. One plex is worth about two skill injectors. So one plex per 80 days - call it three months.
So CCP are offering skill points to the value of four plexes, per year, per character - that's twelve plex per year per account - for doing daily, repetitive, grindy tasks.
Twelve plex per year is more than many of us can afford to turn down, which is the problem. If it was capped in some way - say, up to your first three million skillpoints - or less valuable - perhaps two or three plex per year - it wouldn't be an issue.
The rewards are too high to ignore, but cycling through all characters every day is work, not play.
Twelve plex per account per year for this? No. Sorry, no.
Lol that's just adv for those of us over 80 it's 2 injectors a month
Citadel worm hole tax
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Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
319
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:29:22 -
[1241] - Quote
Open it up for PvP kills
#SPforkillingGoons |
Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:38:13 -
[1242] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job
Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1901
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:40:56 -
[1243] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.
As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters
And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional
Citadel worm hole tax
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CowQueen MMXII
29
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:51:44 -
[1244] - Quote
Ben Ishikela wrote:outragous!
--- well, let me think about it. ---
10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP*10kSP ) for using skill injectors.
Unless you already have certain amounts of SP. My two chars with the most SP will only get 150k per injector, resulting in 2 injectors per character per month.
Of course those characters don't need those SP very badly, but there are circumstances where it's nice to have some that can be distributed freely.
Ben Ishikela wrote:
--- To further add on this:---
We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more.
Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times.
I am pretty sure it was 1.6 accounts per player, meaning up to 5 chars in average.
And although this was mentioned before: not every character can just undock and warp to a belt - at least wormhole residents have a much harder time doing that and also some people that have their corporations war decced.
Moo! Uddersucker, moo!
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Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:52:42 -
[1245] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional
Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously.
There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to. |
Ben Ishikela
68
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Posted - 2016.04.12 09:58:54 -
[1246] - Quote
CowQueen MMXII wrote:Ben Ishikela wrote:outragous!
--- well, let me think about it. ---
10.000 skill points. That would be the same as currently ca 17.5MIsk (= 700Misk/400kSP*10kSP ) for using skill injectors.
Unless you already have certain amounts of SP. My two chars with the most SP will only get 150k per injector, resulting in 2 injectors per character per month. Of course those characters don't need those SP very badly, but there are circumstances where it's nice to have some that can be distributed freely. Ben Ishikela wrote:
--- To further add on this:---
We had given numbers like 1.6Toons per Player. And older Players have way more.
Therefor thats 1.6 times the job of just undocking warping to a npc, killing it (making the killing shot or just participate), warping back and dock up. Some would have to do this 10times.
I am pretty sure it was 1.6 accounts per player, meaning up to 5 chars in average. And although this was mentioned before: not every character can just undock and warp to a belt - at least wormhole residents have a much harder time doing that and also some people that have their corporations war decced.
Ty for fixing the holes in my argumentation.
What about the conclusion though? It still persists, if not stronger.
Ideas are like Seeds. I'd chop trees to start a fire.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1901
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:03:28 -
[1247] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. As stated b4 what it is doesn't matter it's what it feels like that matters And loosing 10ksp a day is a hell of a way to make it feel non-optional Ah, so we've gone from "I am being forced" to "well it doesn't matter if we're being forced or not". So you accept that you are not actually being forced to do anything, despite what you wrote previously. There are lots of things in the game we can do optimally to gain the best results but we don't always do them because... we don't have to.
The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play
Citadel worm hole tax
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Legion
17563
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:09:08 -
[1248] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play.
It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1907
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 10:22:44 -
[1249] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Telling me what to do and forcing me to play when I don't want is not a sand box is a job Putting an optional thing in the game is neither telling you what to do nor forcing you to play. It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.
It's why you don't need to grind in eve
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:23:10 -
[1250] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play
I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play  |
Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:24:15 -
[1251] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:It's punishing me for not logging in every day. One of the core concepts of eve is that you can train SP at the same rate no matter how much time you have to play.
That ended with injectors. |
Chjna
the Goose Flock
26
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:24:49 -
[1252] - Quote
This
Remove T2 BPOs
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Tomika
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:25:32 -
[1253] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:It's why you don't need to grind in eve
Standings say hi. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat
FETID
2657
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:27:14 -
[1254] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi.
keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1910
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:30:28 -
[1255] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play
No we agreed on "making" not "telling"
As fir standings people have been wanting them removed for years and now that you don't need anything over 5 it's not much of a grind anymore you can get that in a day
Citadel worm hole tax
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Samillian
Angry Mustellid
Decayed Orbit
1068
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 10:30:50 -
[1256] - Quote
This.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Kym Mena
World Burning
17
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:37:15 -
[1257] - Quote
Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The reasons dailies work is because they make people who are not doing them feel punished that's not good for a sand box ccp should not be telling people how to play I thought we agreed they are not actually telling you how to play
Nooo... Of course they're not. They are only saying that you can keep playing the way you want, doing the things you do, but if you do this one little thing that they want you to do they will give you 3.98 million SP over the course of a year. Whether you think the SP, specifically, is a problem or not, you can't argue that it was chosen because it was a valuable commodity. This makes this gimmick, at best, bribery to log in. Who doesn't love some good ole' fashioned bribery being used to lever them into doing things?
If Eve was going to remain the sandbox we all know and love then they would be looking for ways to provide us with the tools and environment in which to continue creating some of the most unique content in gaming. Sadly. they are, admittedly, taking the lazy way out to boost numbers and gain a false sense of accomplishment and game health so that they can play their fiddle while Rome burns.
By simplifying Eve and changing the landscape of the sandbox into a real estate development, it seems as if the Eve we all fled to when other games bored us or lost our trust and respect is riding into the sunset. I can only hope that the light of our torches brings Enlightenment to those who have strayed from The Path up in the land of Ice and Fire.
(The underlined portion is notable in this case. With the rapport that has been established between the Eve community and the Devs, such a complete disregard for our feedback as the Devs prepare to tell us what is good for us is completely out of line and unacceptable.) |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
120
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:49:43 -
[1258] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Tippia wrote:Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
[quote]A "normal" player, with only ONE account, will have to grind it's way to be able to fly higher hulls.
No. Largely because no such grind exists. Yet
Exhibit A: The skill injector market.
It exists.
A signature :o
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5779
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Posted - 2016.04.12 10:50:44 -
[1259] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else
Standings are *absolutely mandatory* to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way).
I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita.
Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1910
|
Posted - 2016.04.12 10:55:49 -
[1260] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Lan Wang wrote:Tomika wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:It's why you don't need to grind in eve Standings say hi. keyword here "need" standings don't provide a benefit over anyone else Standings are *absolutely mandatory* to participate in trading at present (in any competitive way). I don't flip PLEX often, but when I do it is in Dodixie (where I have outstanding standings). I would lose ISK on all of those transactions if I carried them out in Jita. Same goes for Marauders and premium deadspace modules.
Good thing you can do that in a citadel now
Citadel worm hole tax
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