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[ISSUE] Removal of deep safes

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TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:25:00 - [1] A recent dev blog stated that deep safes are going to be removed along with any items outside this new "Wall". We the undersigned disagree with the planned removal of existing deep safes (and related destruction of property) and request that CCP re-evaluate this decision with input from the players. Alternative methods for finding deep safes etc can be discussed, but the focus here is to show CCP that the players disagree with further limiting the sandbox. Please reply to this thread and tick the "support this topic" box to register your dissatisfaction. Vote TeaDaze for CSM5!
Nareg Maxence JotunHeim Hird	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:32:00 - [2] Signed. At least move stuff inside the wall instead of just destroying it.
TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:36:00 - [3] Supporting this of course. Would be nice for CCP to take player feedback seriously and hopefully following the CSM procedure will allow that... Vote TeaDaze for CSM5!
Alice Rubidinous Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:36:00 - [4] ccp u suk teh big one
DJ BlackLight Eve Radio Corporation	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:38:00 - [5] Absolutely signed.
Aineko Macx	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:39:00 - [6] Edited by: Aineko Macx on 13/04/2010 11:39:20 Yes! There are practical and conceptual problems with the change. And if they insist on limiting the range, why not some reasonable limit like 100au? One wonders how this issue crept to the top of the giant backlog
Norneguest DEATHFUNK Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:40:00 - [7] Edited by: Norneguest on 13/04/2010 11:40:14 Signed. Seriously CCP, this is what you spend time doing!?!?
Rutger Centemus Dvice Shipyards	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:40:00 - [8] Signed. Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Dodgy Past Debitum Naturae BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:43:00 - [9] Edited by: Dodgy Past on 13/04/2010 11:43:17 Is an absolute ****ed disaster. Poorly thought out and using a justification that could be used again and again to damage the game further. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ***** Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
Elendar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:44:00 - [10] yep

Kormorant Gallente Oneirocritica Inc.	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:45:00 - [11] It is good that they are being removed. The only harsh thing is destruction of ships location past the "border". Besides, new opportunities arise from this assuming they don't change the border distance as the patch is released
Othran Tribal Liberation Force	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:45:00 - [12] Signed. Needs a lot more thought.
Silas Sanyasi Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:47:00 - [13] Signed. The property destruction is way too harsh an approach...
Tasha Voronina Caldari Navy Reserve Force	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:48:00 - [14] Totally signed. <somewhat off-topic rant> I'd be more or less fine with a soft limit as I outlined in my post, but a hard limit? Come on, this is EVE we're talking about! Expanding on (possibly) unintended but harmless game mechanics happened before, why not deep safes? Other than that, simply deleting "stuff" outside this imaginary border is... well... somewhat like saying: "hey, we deem that all players must be equal, hence we will remove ISK and SP from the game and everything will be free for everyone" - because that's such a good idea, right? </somewhat off-topic rant>
Patoa Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:49:00 - [15] Signed. Fix the grid load issues first - you're destroying the only tool players have to get around the problems created by your botched expansion. Don't destroy logged off supercaps - I can't believe you're actually considering/intending to do this as its incredibly heavy handed and unfair to players who happen to be on a break (you can be sure that said players will never return to the game if you do this).
Bruno Bourque	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:51:00 - [16] Eve isnt meant to be fair imo.
Shalyra Wyn	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:52:00 - [17]
Grarr Dexx GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:55:00 - [18] This direction isn't one for the better of Eve. Deep safes added something to the game, which you are removing by adding another arbitrary barrier in this unlimited game.
Kirith Kodachi m3 Corp Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:57:00 - [19] I disagree with any limiting of where a ship can warp to. Change probing mechanics if you feel the need to, but further restricting warping in system is too much.
Interghast Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:57:00 - [20] Terribly proposed implementation from CCP

Noxyra	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:57:00 - [21] Signed and 100% supported. These changes should not occur as they are currently planned & designed. Ever.
ElvenLord 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:58:00 - [22] mail is sent to CCP with CSMs concern about this matter, and this issue will be on next CSM meeting as urgent :D
Rockin RicciBobbi	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:59:00 - [23] Edited by: Rockin RicciBobbi on 13/04/2010 11:59:37 What you are considering will hurt a lot of players. Players who made this game a success. I'm relatively new but if I invest months or years of training time and resource gathering into getting a supercap I will want my safe spot for it to stay safe and I don't want it to get arbitrarily destroyed for no reason other than someone's completely idiotic idea of "balancing the game."
Dierdra Vaal Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:59:00 - [24] signed. in addition to removing deep safes, the destruction of any property in those safes is completely unacceptable. Director of Education :: EVE University CSM1 delegate and CSM3 chairman
Winston Revenge	Posted - 2010.04.13 11:59:00 - [25] Improve deep space probes instead of hard capping system sizes.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:00:00 - [26] I like the idea to give a function to 64 128 AU scan probes.If you really need to limit how far deep safes can go then use those 2 numbers, not some arbitrary distance. Also deliberately destroying players pixels they worked month's/ years on is just wrong.
Kayleigh Lothian KIA Corporation RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:00:00 - [27] Originally by: Winston Revenge Improve deep space probes instead of hard capping system sizes. This. ----------------------
Miep Miep Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:06:00 - [28] Get some devs who actualy play this game. plz
iridize	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:08:00 - [29] Signed. What on earth were you thinking CCP ? Though it would seem that perhaps you weren't?
Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:09:00 - [30] Supported

Jack Dant The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:10:00 - [31] Supported.
Astro Glide Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:10:00 - [32]
McFly Peanut Factory BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:15:00 - [33] Edited by: McFly on 13/04/2010 12:14:54 Why is that CCP is so actively against veterans? I mean seriously whats the beef. Your company has been built on our subscriptions for the last 7 years. Eve has been a long ever evolving story that many of us have shared with CCP. This change isn't about being fair for new players. I can make a trial account right now and have an ibis as far from the center of any system I start in as I want. Emergency warps may be an exploit now, but all it requires is effort, and time. Anyone can do it, so why is CCP using this whole veteran vs noob debate? My hypothesis is that due to the fact that newer players (those playing less than 2 years) outnumber veterans (5-7 years) that CCP expects the old vs. new debate to rally 07s, 08s, 09s, and 10s to their cause. This game is about who can figure "it" out, then implement what they've discovered tactically, and succeed because of it. Whether thats in the market, pvp, or pve. You want to make this about old vs new. Well lets fix that up. Delete all items then reset all wallets and SP to 0. See if the veterans resubscribe, or anyone else for that matter. We've been here for years CCP, we held your hand through bugs, Dev misconduct, exploits, boot.ini, scandals, poor customer service, clueless GMs, nerfs, node crashes, bad mechanics, terrible public relations and everything else. CCP has made us embrace "adapt or die". Anyone playing this game for a considerable amount of time has accepted that. But invoking the newbie argument of "tears, older players, tears" over something that has very little to do with old vs. new is really stupid.
Sperrzone Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:20:00 - [34] Supported
Kazekari Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:20:00 - [35] \o/
Robert Caldera	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:22:00 - [36] Edited by: Robert Caldera on 13/04/2010 12:23:17 CCP, you doing it wrong, you should draw a fence at the 10 AU system border - I mean for destructing the immersion of space travel properly.
Ap0ll0n Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:24:00 - [37] Signed.. Its terrible.. Fix lag instead.
EYEDOLL Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:28:00 - [38]
Brentum Kaltarr Elemental Foundries	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:29:00 - [39] Arbitrary removal without consultation ... Not good form at all
Furryfriday	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:32:00 - [40] Edited by: Furryfriday on 13/04/2010 12:32:01 First fix lag, then deep safes. Or just adjust the scan mechanics or bring 'alternatives' for entering an system in an safe way with the existing issues as someone else, somewhere said.

Carver DiGriz Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:38:00 - [41] And how! Supported.
Scoutsy	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:40:00 - [42] Signed
Tjarish Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:43:00 - [43] Removing the ability to have deep safes is lame, improve scanning instead (range of the deep space probe 1,000 AU?)
Carenthor Loon Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:48:00 - [44] I can personally live without the deep safes, but I'm supporting this due to the heavy-handed property destruction, the new nerf to Astrometrics V and most importantly the lack of player consultation.
Lord EmBra	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:50:00 - [45] /Signed CCP should instead of pushing this away embrace it, continue what their players have started and build upon it. There is a lot of space not being used, make it possible to go anywhere without using exploits instead, but also improve probing accordingly. Do not make the sandbox smaller!
D melanogaster The Fruit Flys	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:53:00 - [46] This is one of those backlashes that could have been avoided if they had even mentioned it in passing to the CSM. If they had done it it would have at least been better thought out. I just home CCP isn't so prideful that they aren't willing to listen.. //support
Kallasha Caldari Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:55:00 - [47] signed 100%
mr passie Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:57:00 - [48] Edited by: mr passie on 13/04/2010 12:57:38 I'm with my NC brosefs on this one
Siiee Recycled Heroes Codemonkey Construction Project	Posted - 2010.04.13 12:57:00 - [49] Supported
NeoFusion Freelancer Union Unaffiliated	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:00:00 - [50] Supported

Kalan Ikuru	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:00:00 - [51] I was disappointed to hear about the changes to making deep safes when they first surfaced, but this is just crazy.
Al'ar Darkwind Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:00:00 - [52] Supported. There is no need for this change right now and the negatives far outweigh the positives.
Karak Terrel	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:02:00 - [53] The problem is not that there are deep safespots, the problem is that you have to use an exploit to create one. Just introduce a way to create one and i would prefer a challenging way, not just "move probe here. warp". Something where you have to think, calculate, solve problems.. whatever, it should not be easy to do. My idea for this is a new warpdrive mechanic, and also the techi **** behind (cause this is scifi k ): 1. The theory of why you can't just... If you have a bookmark of a point in space it is not just coordinates, it contains also a lot of information about the spacetime topology itself in this target region. Only with this information the warpdrive is able to lock on and warp to this point. Without the information of the topologie the warp bubble may not terminate at a specific point but spread over some distance which results in you and your ship also "spread" over the same distance.. However, probes are small and unmaned so they can use different warp mechanics which lead to very high accl/decl forces (which can't be compensated) but prevent them from beeing vaporized while exiting warp in unknown spacetime topology. If used to scan signatures, probes use an active scann system to eventualy find the object and use it as a reference point to measure the topology at the target. Without this artificial reference point it is impossible for a probe to determine the point it should measure. They can also not act as they'r own reference point, they are too small to act as a beacon that is strong enought. 2. One first Idea how you can do it (maybe this is a bad idea cause it may be boring) There are other "probes" that act as a beacon, but they are not able to enter warp, they have to use the relativistic way, while sending out a signal that can be tracked down. To launch such a probe you need to anchor an accelerator which accelerates the beacon into a specific direction. You can also use gravitation of planets to increase the speed of the beacon (there should be various other factors), but this will result in a different direction. Once the beacon is on its way to the outer solar system you can track it down with your probes, but it will always move while you are scanning. The beacon will not deccelerate except from the cosmic medium which "scources" the beacon at this high velocity and limits its lifetime. As the beacon can not pass the lightspeed barrier it will take some time to travel and you don't exactly know how long it will last. The faster it travels the more likely it is that it gets destroyed early and the harder it is to track down. 3. Other Maybe someone has a better idea, there was always this deadspace thing which may also result in a interesting and maybe more challenging idea how to get deep safespots. At least CCP talked at fanfest about some plans around deadspace. Would like to see some thought from others on this or other ideas. less whining more thinking!!
Kire Nosslrak	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:02:00 - [54]
Solway	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:06:00 - [55] signed Deep Safe spots are atm the only way to prevent the grid load issue.
Uryence	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:06:00 - [56] Perhaps 'something should be done' about deep safes, but this method seems pretty unfair to my (admittedly relatively new to Eve) mind.
Ven Dak	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:07:00 - [57] 356 replies to the info thread in 17 hours, that beats even the Insurance change thread in the same period of time, and all over a much simpler issue.
DocFloyd	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:08:00 - [58] Edited by: DocFloyd on 13/04/2010 13:08:13 Signed! CCP! If you remove jumplag, gridlag and provide us with the possibility of playable and enjoyable huuuge fleetfights, you can remove Deep Saves! Until then (2025) let them be a tactical possibility to enter a system.
TheBlueMonkey Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:08:00 - [59] Removal in this fasion is balls. Give people a way of finding them instead. Add more content not remove existing ftw -- Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
Frank Fearless	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:09:00 - [60] Whoever came up with the idea to remove deep space safes has never fought in a large fleet battle or tried to attack/defend a system. It displays utter lack of gameplay knowledge. With the removal of this tactical possibility CCP is in fact reducing the possibility of fleetfights to a grinding stop. Instead we will get a "Maginot Line" of entrenched troups following the motto "he, who is first in a system, wins". Jumping into a system with 300+ enemies waiting at the incoming gate is garanteed suicide. It is possible to even stress the node further by artificially creating lag (I could spawn like 6 trial accounts on various computer and have them do silly stuff just to keep the server running at it's maximum speed). So you either remove lag (or whatever it is called) and guarantee that the extermination of whole fleets due to gridload issue will not happen anymore ("our logs show nothing - REALLY!!"), or you provide some means to circumvent it.

Gloster II	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:11:00 - [61] Support .... if they take away the deeps ... it ll be not possible to enter a system in order to fight an enemy fleet .... . Fleetfights wouldnt be possible, after taking away the deeps. Less fun would be the consequence and less pilots, that play this game. Therefore, im against this "takeawaythedeeps" plans.
Pellit1 Bushwhackers Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:16:00 - [62] Supported 100% for the reasons stated in the main topic. ------------- Rough Necks Alliance BOOST FALCONS. Nerf whiners.
schawo Gallente Hungarian Operational Team Pannon Legion	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:17:00 - [63] I support the removal. These make no real sense beside limiting the playability.
De'Veldrin Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:17:00 - [64] While I don't necessarily have a problem with removing deep safes per se, it would be better to simply add some method of creating and discovering them. The destruction of property located beyond your new imaginary wall, on the other hand, is over the top and completely unacceptable. If you don't want the items there, then they should be placed inside an NPC station (yes, even supercaps - once they undock, don't let them dock again). --Vel Originally by: Jiseinoku Mining is the path to enlightement.
Sort Dragon Black Nova Corp IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:18:00 - [65]
Teglagyari Megallo	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:22:00 - [66] I support the idea of removing deep safes, but not the property destruction.
LadyBreak	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:29:00 - [67] Signed
Anna Habbott	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:30:00 - [68] Fix the lag, fix a safe way to store supercaps, fix scanning. Random destruction of items, and no consultation with players or CSM, on the pretence of "Old vs new" players doesn't hold or stand. If you've got a technical reason for this, or you can say it will improve something, anything, then I could be pursuaded to change my views on this. Random and pointless destruction is uncalled for. move structures anchored at deeps to within your new boundary if you so wish, but destroying players items is uncalled for.
Tekai Foo German Kings Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:35:00 - [69]
Mynxee Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:36:00 - [70] Supported because I disagree so strongly with how CCP has said they plan to implement it. My Blog: Life In Low Sec

Alyx Cjarrigan	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:37:00 - [71] Agreed with the OP
Lu Ziffer	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:38:00 - [72] Signed
Isidore Tailleur Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:40:00 - [73] Signed
Vir Hellnamin Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:45:00 - [74] voting for more beer! -- "Entering MH means instant death. It's worse than 0.0. Even the asteroids shoot back." - Alex Harumichi [GRD]
Depili Blood Works Inc. Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:46:00 - [75] Let's see if ccp listens to it's players for once....
Rebnott Valeri Epiphyte Mining and Exploration	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:47:00 - [76] Supported. Fix jump-in lag first!
Noertti	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:47:00 - [77] Edited by: Noertti on 13/04/2010 13:47:18
Padre deSoya	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:49:00 - [78] signed
Sylvia Lafayette	Posted - 2010.04.13 13:58:00 - [79] signed.
Lord Atlan	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:03:00 - [80] fix lag completely. Then fix deep safes. Not the other way. signed

Rokkit Kween	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:04:00 - [81] Supported. The ability to make said spots should be removed, but more thought needs to be given as to what will happen to any property hidden at these spots. Will hidden Super-caps and Titans be re-imbursed? Also the boundary should be upped to 20AU beyond the furthest celestial, to put you out of D-scan range but still leave you probable. Another consideration is missions. What if a mission spawns a deadspace complex beyind the boundary? will it still be warpable. It would seem not from the Dev Blog. This would not only make the mission undoable, even if it was warpable you would be unable to bookmark it for salvaging (if you're a one man show and run the missions then come back in a salvage boat) All in all this seems like a solution that has been rushed through without much in the way of consideration, consultation or thought. Put it on hold till you can solve all the problems that doing it throws up.
Volarus II	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:07:00 - [82] signed (and underlined) omfg, is this really an issue you spend developers time? Go and have a beer instead, maybe this clear things a littel.
fixmer	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:18:00 - [83] 100% signed
Smexer	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:20:00 - [84] signed!
August Hayek Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:22:00 - [85] Edited by: August Hayek on 13/04/2010 14:22:08 Signed.
Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Xenogenesis Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:28:00 - [86] Sorry to say... I honestly think this change is a good compromise. 10 AU is nothing to sneeze at as far as distance is concerned... the only thing that makes me frown a little is the destruction of property beyond that... but what the hell would be out there as it is? The "Excuses" for not having this change are honestly quite utterly pathetic... so far all I've seen are: 1: Fix lag because deep safe's are needed as a result. 2: I've played this game too long and deserve this privilege. 3: CCP you suxxors 4: ??? 5: My Profit!!!! Let's be honest... the whole idea of a deep safe has been controversial and at best dare I say exploitative. It's an abuse of game mechanics... legal at the time or not... the game wasn't meant to be played in that way. If you can't create a deep safe without forcing the game to "quit" or "disconnecting" or "logging off" then honestly In my eyes its abuse. But that's just me. Now don't get me wrong... as a Jump Freighter pilot... I would use a deep safe to protect my 4.5 (now 5) billion ISK investment... but then CCP doesn't like that. If CCP makes this change I won't lose sleep over it. If they reverse it... I won't lose sleep over it. But my interpretation of the rules/mechanics says.... this is good. If anything it will force people to fly smarter... and not give you an instant-immunity to getting shot down. I have personally seen a gross abuse of this mechanic... repeatedly. Sorry to say... nice to see it get nerfed. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
Larkonis Trassler Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:39:00 - [87] Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 13/04/2010 14:45:36 I, for one, disapprove of this. There will still be 'deep safes' out there, just not super-deep safes. There are plenty of systems which are >100 AU in diameter. I'm more concerned about the fact that you will still be able to hide things in these systems which are unlikely to be found without Deep Space probes yet this will not be possible in others. Rework the 'grid' system on the solar system map so it doesn't spaz out when trying to place probes at range. Have a 'hard cap' of say 256 AU diameter. All bookmarks/assets move to the edge of this 'cap' come patch day but make the 'warpable' boundry 257 AU to prevent some fellow right on the edge sneaking back over it in his supercap and becoming truely unprobable. Until then you'll probably see me and my alts logging in and out a lot as I push the boundries in systems I frequent. Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist No. Larkonis
Master Akira Child Head Injury and Laceration Doctors	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:40:00 - [88] Supported.
BeanBagKing Ch3mic4l Warfare	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:45:00 - [89] Signed If a hard wall -must- exist for server performance reasons it should be hundreds of AU out, allowing us to have both a sandbox feel and a use for deep space probes. Also WTB Devs that don't just say "meh, delete all their stuff" and consult CSM (that's what they are there for right?) about **** like this.
Khors Amtek Inc	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:46:00 - [90] Signed. -

Thorvik Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:46:00 - [91] Agree. I don't disagree that something should be done, but 10AU is just a bit ridiculous as a mission runner would sometimes be beyond that threshold and would need to set a BM. Don't have any deep safes myself but feel it's absurd that you put a padded wall on a solar system. Yes, eliminate the mechanic that allows you to create the "poseidon" safe but set the limit at whatever the missions take you plus 20AU. If someone wants to run their interceptor for 11 hrs to create a deep safe in some system then they should be able to do so. Space has no limits.
TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:48:00 - [92] Originally by: Drake Draconis If you can't create a deep safe without forcing the game to "quit" or "disconnecting" or "logging off" then honestly In my eyes its abuse. But that's just me. Currently you can make deep safes without using the logoff/logon trick, there are actually a few methods (which CCP might be removing as part of this, but they haven't specified) but only the logoff/logon one was available to anyone. I guess in your eyes it can't be classed as abuse any more In seriousness this heavy handed nerfbatting is not required and the reasons used to justify it are utterly ridiculous. Vote TeaDaze for CSM5!
Rastuasi	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:52:00 - [93] I have not used deep safes but eve is open, free, and unlimited. Even in the chronicles pod pilots warp to deep spots for wrecks, there is no logical reasoning to your decision ccp and you will be liable to being sued for false advertisement of the sandbox idea in the butterfly effect trailor
Ariah Adama	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:53:00 - [94]
5erious Business	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:57:00 - [95] Couldn't agree more, many people keep repeating that the current deep safes are an unfair advantage to new players when the reality is that ANYONE is easily capable of making his/her own deep safespots, it's not even that hard to do. I'd much prefer a new method was introduced to make it possible to scan these down like the OP mentioned.
Fartislartbast	Posted - 2010.04.13 14:58:00 - [96] 150%
cBOLTSON Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:00:00 - [97] Right I know this is only a game, but its a bloody good one at that. Ive only been playing eve just over a year so im still young in relative terms. I only recently discovered the 'posiedon manual' I had read through the 'Grid foo manual' before that. I have to say ccp they are intresting reads. Dont you like the fact that so much effort goes into these things? This is the sandbox you wanted and hell we all love! DEEP SAFES - Keep them! The first thing I did when i figured out how to do them was make a long tour around my system. It was great being able to warp huge distances, fling past the sun and out to the other side of systems you cant normally do that it. Long story short - PLEASE KEEP DEEP SAFES. Either changed the way they are created so its an in game ability. Or change scanning ranges so that you can scan out to the far reaches of space. The ammout of feedback here is surely eveident to the communities wishes?
Zoon Muidac eXceed Inc. HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:00:00 - [98] This is going to be 3 terrible expansions in a row. Perhaps they are planning on us forgeting about the lag when this new expansion brings in all the new game breaking bugs.
XxNukeyxX Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:00:00 - [99] signed
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:01:00 - [100] I'm torn on this issue. I think there is a very small, very small percentage of eve players that own these deep safe spots. I do know that that small percentage will try to make their voice be extremely loud to be heard by CCP. Is having a deep safe spot an unfair advantage? Sure. The tools to create the same advantage are no longer available. My problem is that CCP waited this long to remove these deep safes. If they had done away with this immediately when they took away the tools to make them then they would not be as coveted as they are from all the threads started and comments on the dev blog. In many ways, I view these deep safes as I do owners of the T2 BPO's. These are the ones who lucked out. It is a valuable asset, just like the deep safes. I would be shouting at CCP too if it was not for this one factor. Invention allows those without T2 BPO's to compete with those who do have it. I have seen someone light a cyno, sacrafice the ship the lit the cyno by killing it thus forcing the cyno to drop. The cyno was 2000+ AU away from where we were at in the solar system. This allowed them to bridge in an entire fleet uncontested. No one was able to warp to the beacon before it closed, no even remotely close. I can't remember if you can right click on a cyno beacon and bookmark it, but it creates and extreme, extreme unfair advantage that can not be duplicated. It is not the same as when comparing invention to T2 BPO owners. Now I will say I completely disagree with them blowing up ships that players are currently flying if they are at said deep safes. If CCP is do get rid of deep safe bookmarks, then they should move any ship that a player is piloting to a random safe spot that is actually within the boundaries of the solar system. Hopefully to the furthest edge of the boundary. If that is not possible, then by all means, dock them in the closest non-kick out station. Capitals and super capitals to the closest non-kickout, low sec station. Along with this, any ships they docked that was out of bounds, when that player logs in, there is a window that pops up just like the EULA. They have to read it and in this letter it explains what CCP did, why and lets them know where they were moved. The player has to scroll to the bottom to get a box to pop up that they check saying they read the letter. Once checked, they can hit the 'enter game' button. I mean no offence to those forum warriors that make a habit of spending a sizable amount of time on the forums, but having to read the forums constantly to watch for things like this, in order to prevent your ship from being blown up because of where you logged is total **ing bull and you know it CCP. In the end I agree that the deep safes should be removed. I do not agree with you punishing those who happen to be logged off there with their ships when the patch hits. You want to change something this controversial in the game then you need to handle it with kid gloves. Blowing up each others ships is OUR** job, not yours. We pay for that privilege.

Drake Draconis Minmatar Shadow Cadre Xenogenesis Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:01:00 - [101] Originally by: TeaDaze Originally by: Drake Draconis If you can't create a deep safe without forcing the game to "quit" or "disconnecting" or "logging off" then honestly In my eyes its abuse. But that's just me. Currently you can make deep safes without using the logoff/logon trick, there are actually a few methods (which CCP might be removing as part of this, but they haven't specified) but only the logoff/logon one was available to anyone. I guess in your eyes it can't be classed as abuse any more In seriousness this heavy handed nerfbatting is not required and the reasons used to justify it are utterly ridiculous. First off... the only other method means slow boating it in an interceptor or some other ship for hours on end... which even then would be a bit silly. At least obviously... feel free to expose other tactics that don't involve leaving the game repeatedly. (Bring up the Carrier/Fighter trick and I'm pretty damn sure that's called an exploit considering what happened to the idiot that tried that in 0.0 space when I was there) And secondly... the reasons to justify this change at just as every bit ridiculous as the reasons to not have the change. and if you had read my post before making your little nice argumentative poke in the side... you'd see I honestly don't care either way... if it happens.. it happens... if it doesn't... so be it. I'm entitled to my opinion... but I sure as hell won't make silly excuses as to why it's needed. People complain and whine about ships repeated logoffsking and being unable to track them down and kill them. How ironic that suddenly everyone want's to keep that mechanic... lets be honest.. deep safe's encourage this... you can't have it both ways... With that I will no longer discuss this topic. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com =========================
ElvenLord 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:01:00 - [102] Edited by: ElvenLord on 13/04/2010 15:01:39 I forgot one option to add, instead of killing deep safes and ruining deep space probing and possible exploration, CCP should ponder a bit on it (but proper game designers this time pls, ones with brain). Few times mentioned comets and comet mining could become part of deep space spots in systems, this could be a new reason to use 100+AU probes, as space is limitless and comets tend to get far away from center of the system
Mona X C0VEN	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:01:00 - [103] signed
Oli Geist Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:03:00 - [104] Supported, by which I mean I strongly dislike the deep-safe change. I'm unconvinced by its necessity (smart probing tactics? Improve deepspace probes?); even if it were, the proposed fix is poor (utterly invulnerable beyond a potentially reachable boundary?); even if the fix weren't, the implementation is terrible (destruction of assets.) To top it all off, not running this past the CSM first was just silly.
Kalain ap'Sulen Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:06:00 - [105] Edited by: Kalain ap''Sulen on 13/04/2010 15:06:45 Unthink this stupidity. Quando ami flunkus morti.
Sunbird Huy WEPRA CORP Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:11:00 - [106] They need a slap across the face too.
MrEMan Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:13:00 - [107] agree
Clb The Intersect	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:14:00 - [108] The implementation is completely wrong. Firstly, inactive supercaps should not be getting destroyed. Secondly, break every bookmark that is in a place that it should have never been possible to get to, without the logoff-trick, or don't break any of them. Do it right the first time or don't do it at all. ---
Jinhai Storm Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:14:00 - [109] also agree
Jerid Verges Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:23:00 - [110] Not supporting for these reasons. -Using Deep Deep safes is something that only older players have in their pockets. (You can argue that you can make Deep safes with interceptors but you won't ever be able to get the 1000 AU safes old players had) -CCP is totally in the right to eliminate anything beyond the border (Which by the way, it is not a border, you can still fly past 10 AU but now it is going to be meaningless to do so) they've given notice. -Supercap pilots will be forced to play the game fairer, as now they cannot store their ships 1000 AU from the center. Even then, they can still put a supercap in an alt and logoff, that is pure invulnerability. So no, supercap pilots are fine. I WOULD however support this initiative if some hard limits were set. -Deep Space Probe buff immediately -Super Deep safes removed (beyond 100 AU or something like that) but safes within 100 are okay. -Implement mechanic to create these deep safes (Besides slow boating interceptors).

Luccul	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:23:00 - [111] I object to CCP's plans for changing and/or eliminating deep safes, especially for destroying things currently at such safes. I am not in favour of using a log-off trick to create deep safes, but I think deep safes should be possible via an in-game mechanic available to everyone. How about a "warp beyond" option where you can warp to an object plus some distance past it (in AUs please). Putting a max on the distance from the sun is ok, but make it more reasonable than the proposed change.
Tae Jito	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:24:00 - [112] signed
Lost Hamster Hamster Holding Corp	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:28:00 - [113] Signed
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:29:00 - [114] Edited by: James Tritanius on 13/04/2010 15:32:49 I can see problems with destroying objects outside of the great wall of >10 AU (just move them and the corresponding bookmark within range). But I don't see any problems with removing deep space safes. Quote: -Implement mechanic to create these deep safes (Besides slow boating interceptors) Slow boating interceptors do not create deep safes... It would take an interceptor going at 5km/s an entire year to travel 1.0AU.
Jenina Hawke Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish Big Bang Quantum	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:32:00 - [115] Signed! *** Jenina Hawke *** Happy to fly with AAA & ET, the best FC in the game.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:40:00 - [116] Originally by: Jerid Verges Not supporting for these reasons. -Using Deep Deep safes is something that only older players have in their pockets. (You can argue that you can make Deep safes with interceptors but you won't ever be able to get the 1000 AU safes old players had) yes only old players can read the documentation freely avaiable on the internet to make deep safe spots. Quote: -CCP is totally in the right to eliminate anything beyond the border (Which by the way, it is not a border, you can still fly past 10 AU but now it is going to be meaningless to do so) they've given notice. -Supercap pilots will be forced to play the game fairer, as now they cannot store their ships 1000 AU from the center. Even then, they can still put a supercap in an alt and logoff, that is pure invulnerability. So no, supercap pilots are fine. I WOULD however support this initiative if some hard limits were set. -Deep Space Probe buff immediately -Super Deep safes removed (beyond 100 AU or something like that) but safes within 100 are okay. -Implement mechanic to create these deep safes (Besides slow boating interceptors).
Normin Bates	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:42:00 - [117] CCP, please use your brains before nerfing stuffs you don't understand!
Hideomi Dye	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:44:00 - [118] I fully support this topic.
TehPhil Community for Justice Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:44:00 - [119] Signed. -- Everybody Panic!
Toerstun	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:48:00 - [120]

Pradege D'Hallur The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:50:00 - [121] There are alot of people deployed or otherwise unable to browse the internet let alone logon to eve to move assets and super caps from deep safes. You need a another way of doing this either move all the stuff to inside this new wall or allow them to atleast have their ships intact.
Bibo2	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:54:00 - [122] well then you want to destroy t2 bpos too dont you?
HenkieBoy Best Path Inc. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:57:00 - [123] Support
Knight Draco Minmatar Devious Decorum Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:58:00 - [124] Signed, signed, and signed in blood.
Naomi Wildfire Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:58:00 - [125] signed
Cerys Magente Insidious Existence En Garde	Posted - 2010.04.13 15:59:00 - [126] Supported With Dominion grid load issues, deep safes are needed if you want to have any chance of bringing a fleet into a system where the enemy is already set up Destroying players' ships because they logged off in good faith at a bookmark that happens to be outside an arbitrarily set limit is just appalling There are many items in this game that new players can only obtain from older players - it seems more like an excuse than a reason for nerfing deep safes. Coming Home Company of Strangers
DienstleistungsChar I	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:00:00 - [127]
steave435 Final Agony B A N E	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:00:00 - [128] Originally by: Aineko Macx Edited by: Aineko Macx on 13/04/2010 11:39:20 Yes! There are practical and conceptual problems with the change. And if they insist on limiting the range, why not some reasonable limit like 100au? One wonders how this issue crept to the top of the giant backlog Or 250 AU, meaning that 1 deep space scanner probe placed at the sun will still cover the entire system.
Jack Drask	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:05:00 - [129] support this
Ulair Memmet ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:07:00 - [130] Supported. If you want to prevent abuse just make it impossible to cyno/put TCUs out there. But leave the Deepsafes.

Bluetippedflyer Habitual Euthanasia Dystopia Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:07:00 - [131] since when have deep safes ever been considered a design flaw in this game?
Mavric Viscosity Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:10:00 - [132]
DL ZD Insidious Existence En Garde	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:14:00 - [133] signed
Mystrin Micro Ixion Defence Systems Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:19:00 - [134] I the undersigned disagree with the planned removal of existing deep safes (and related destruction of property) and request that CCP re-evaluate this decision with input from the players. -Mystrin Micro
Gloster II	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:23:00 - [135] Originally by: ElvenLord Edited by: ElvenLord on 13/04/2010 15:01:39 I forgot one option to add, instead of killing deep safes and ruining deep space probing and possible exploration, CCP should ponder a bit on it (but proper game designers this time pls, ones with brain). Few times mentioned comets and comet mining could become part of deep space spots in systems, this could be a new reason to use 100+AU probes, as space is limitless and comets tend to get far away from center of the system Thats a very good idea too to make deep Saves part of the game .... this is a game with a universe, doesnt make sense to build up walls in the outer space. Pls CCP hear your Players... .
Chris Roberts Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:24:00 - [136] Signed
XXeerroo Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:31:00 - [137] NOT signed ;P first positiv thing in the next expansion
Kraknar hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:32:00 - [138] supported!
WorthlessGerm	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:34:00 - [139] /signed
Xtops The Kairos Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:49:00 - [140] Edited by: Xtops on 13/04/2010 16:50:15 I never post on forums, but this deserves a post. /signed I wasn't aware space had limits. I also agree with what was previously said, fix grid lag rather than what players have innovated to combat your shortcomings.

Jack Nuddels Congregatio Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:51:00 - [141] Edited by: Jack Nuddels on 13/04/2010 16:54:00 Quote: Thats a very good idea too SurprisedExclamation to make deep Saves part of the game .... this is a game with a universe, doesnt make sense to build up walls in the outer space. Pls CCP hear your Players... . signed ___________________________ ich kann auch ohne Spa¯ Alkohol haben...
Vhaydher	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:52:00 - [142] Signed. This "nerf" is a terrible idea.
glepp	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:53:00 - [143] Signed. Srsly CCP, get real.
Venkul Mul	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:55:00 - [144] I am neutral on the deep safe removal but strongly against the item destruction. I have seen several comment about using the deep safe for titan jumping to reduce lag loading grid and it seem a valid concern. So, supported
Fireeagle	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:57:00 - [145] Removing the deep-saves doesnt fix any Lag-issues. Fact!
Rocinantae Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 16:58:00 - [146] Signed
Valkrin S'jomah	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:07:00 - [147] Edited by: Valkrin S''jomah on 13/04/2010 17:09:55 Quote: -Implement mechanic to create these deep safes (Besides slow boating interceptors). ... Pro-tip. Calculators FTW
Ash2k7 Aperture Harmonics K162	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:17:00 - [148] Signed
JcH	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:21:00 - [149]
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:30:00 - [150] Edited by: lollerwaffle on 13/04/2010 17:30:56 Signed Have/have not is a weak excuse. What about extremely rare skillbooks or people with those skills in their heads? pfffftt. edit: lol forgot to tick Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker

Bunyip Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:40:00 - [151] While I don't necessarily disagree with the removal of deep safe spots, as it's extra information the BM database would have to contend with, the deletion of any items outside of them does seem a little harsh. Why not simply transfer the items to the nearest low-sec or null-sec NPC station instead? My main question refers to missions placed outside this arbitrary limit. I've gone to missions that were 16 AU+ from the nearest cosmic object - will I now not be able to do such missions if they aren't changed? I'd say to change the AU limit to 30 AU. This way, probes can still find the responsible parties, but it gives us a little more space to explore. Somewhat supported, but I'm not completely against the initial idea CCP has if it is tweaked slightly. "May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table.
Alar Tangor Decadence.	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:49:00 - [152] Supported! Eve is not and never was an even playing field and deep safes profit everyone wanting fleetfights in 0.0
Raivi Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:50:00 - [153] Signed ---------------------------------------------
RaiviM Explosion Matrix	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:51:00 - [154] Edited by: RaiviM on 13/04/2010 17:52:36 This change is badly thought out and is simply going to create a new set of haves and havenots. Add to that the decision to destroy the ships of unsubbed players and I really have to wonder if anyone actually sat down and thought about the effects of this change at CCP before posting the blog. -----Explosion Matrix----- Nostrum Nomen est Ridiculum
Jerid Verges Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:53:00 - [155] Originally by: darius mclever yes only old players can read the documentation freely avaiable on the internet to make deep safe spots. You will never get 1000 AU safes with those tactics. The simple FACT is that older players who were around before the nano nerf have safes that are impossible to duplicate and impossible to probe out. God you are such a bad troll.
Avalloc GoonWaffe SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO	Posted - 2010.04.13 17:55:00 - [156] Signed. If there is a game/server performance reason for this change then CCP needs to elaborate. Destroying bm and property in deep safe spots is unacceptable.
RadioControlled Dvice Shipyards	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:03:00 - [157] Originally by: Jerid Verges Originally by: darius mclever yes only old players can read the documentation freely avaiable on the internet to make deep safe spots. You will never get 1000 AU safes with those tactics. The simple FACT is that older players who were around before the nano nerf have safes that are impossible to duplicate and impossible to probe out. God you are such a bad troll. Bullshit. Looked in the mirror lately? Petition signed.
Gunner The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:04:00 - [158] So you want my stuff CCP? Bad idea! *** 2007.10.06 R.I.P. Hatuk my friend.
BraveLttl Toaster Intergalactic Hunters of ManBearPig Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:04:00 - [159] if the issue is 'haves' and 'have-nots', why am i able to make a new characer right now and make deep safes, honestly ccp do you even play this game.
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:05:00 - [160] Edited by: Marlona Sky on 13/04/2010 18:06:06 Just have the people logged at the deep safes 'auto' sent to a new safe spot randomly within the solar system. Also @ all the players that are opposed to the change completely, running around waving a "But it's not fair to those deployed/taking break from eve" crap. I wonder how many of you are just saying that so CCP doesn't get rid of your deep safes. The deep safes need to be removed one way or another, I suggest you help with suggestions on how this is deployed instead of tearing up on threads.

Majst0r 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:09:00 - [161] Don't delete our stuff!
Atigone	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:09:00 - [162] Signed
Kalicrates The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:10:00 - [163] Signed. Rich Rocks And Laser Death
LdyLye 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:12:00 - [164] Edited by: LdyLye on 13/04/2010 18:16:17 Do not restrict the space Signed.
Alex SOKOLOFF 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:12:00 - [165]
RX 700	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:12:00 - [166] have you fixed lag yet to take suck measures ... or you just want to take away the last chance to defend something if you are too late to get in system?
Saul Reaver Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:12:00 - [167] Signed. There is alot of isk floating out there in those deepsafes CCP. If you just simply "Destroy" the ships then i think that is going a bit too far. At least move the ships to a safespot on grid with pilots being warned in advance.
Vik Luk	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:13:00 - [168]
Lady Ann 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:13:00 - [169]
Daedalus Imperator Northstar Cabal OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:14:00 - [170] Signed

chamallow Gallente	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:15:00 - [171] +1
TheDarkestDestroyer	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:16:00 - [172] Edited by: TheDarkestDestroyer on 13/04/2010 18:17:24 The people who agree with this probably cry in local all the time because they can't find people to gank. Space is BIG and any player can make deep safe spots the notion that you can't is preposterous and deleting people's belongings and bookmarks is also ridiculous. I'm also getting sick and tired of this whiny new player crap. Seriously older players have advantages because they're older and have more skills and experience it's the nature of the game....or at least it is in other games that aren't nerfed every couple of months. It seems like CCP always loves to remove things that can easily be countered to accommodate the noobs. And I agree brave I doubt CCP even plays this game I think the lag and all the nerfs drove them away years ago.
Yume Mei	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:16:00 - [173]
Drevin Marks	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:16:00 - [174]
LuceOscura	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:17:00 - [175]
Boldt	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:18:00 - [176] All in favor
SupaKow2 Northstar Cabal	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:18:00 - [177] Yay for Deep Safes!
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:19:00 - [178] Originally by: Jerid Verges Originally by: darius mclever yes only old players can read the documentation freely avaiable on the internet to make deep safe spots. You will never get 1000 AU safes with those tactics. The simple FACT is that older players who were around before the nano nerf have safes that are impossible to duplicate and impossible to probe out. God you are such a bad troll. one day ... when you stopped mining too much or running too many missions you will understand it.
Maegashira Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:19:00 - [179] stupid idea focus on the real issues
Trayci	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:21:00 - [180] Signed.

StyweBal THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:23:00 - [181] Agreed.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:23:00 - [182] Remove the deep safes, but only after (1-2 weeks) deployment of expansion. If they manage to squash the bugs killing blob-wars they introduced in Dominion, the need for deep safes is all but gone. Seems to be the recurring argument against removing them.
Storm EU THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:24:00 - [183] ccp fix the game and employ some gamers i agree whith this ops message.
Kyunden Galard hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:27:00 - [184] Just plain destroying anything outside the planned distance limit is such an incomprehensibly stupid idea I'm not quite sure what to say. ------------------------------- Soaring where angels fear to fly
Xcel Northstar Cabal OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:27:00 - [185]
ZergRushJohnny Ch3mic4l Warfare	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:27:00 - [186] Supported, and to toss a few ideas out there... If you have to fix e-warp, and thus consider deep safes unfair, instead of nerfing the sandbox to hell create a way for players to make deep safes. Don't delete assets, move them to station or something -if- you are going to do this. (note, this still won't make me happy, I'm 100% against this, but it will make it better... a band aid over a severed artery) If you have to, for reasons of server stability, create a "wall" in space, give us room to play, 500AU minimum. If you want to actually listen to players but still want us to be able to find -anything- in space (several thousand AU deep safes) then give us scan probes that go out to "infinity". These give you a basic idea of where an object is with several hundred AU deviation, from there you have to get it down with deep space probes to tens of AU deviation, from there pinpoint with combat probes. Congrats, we now have a sandbox where we can also realistically find anything that someone "hid". Significant skills to use this of course, maybe a 10 min scan time on these infinite range probes so people can skill hide... you know what, I'll just open a separate topic for this in features and ideas.
Chevran Polt	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:31:00 - [187] ccp get a clue
Verys Burning Technologies Cult of War	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:31:00 - [188] The whole idea behind the deep safespots is using "techniques" not intended by the game's designers (read exploit) to make a safe location to store your valuables. Before the whole scan probe overhaul it must have been nigh impossible to scan these down and even after the changes having safespots several thousands of au outside of the normal playing field it can become almost impossible. On the whole destruction thing, I find it quite righteous and therefore I'm not supporting this topic. CCP have put out an announcement more than a month and a half before this new boundary is introduced, which I find very gratuitous because you used an exploit (usually a ban-able offence!). So to anyone losing they're stuff, didn't pay attention to forums/devblogs or even chatting with anyone in eve about anything recent then it's your own damn fault. Add drone repair bays to carriers
Landy Thigg	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:32:00 - [189]
The yzzergirl Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:33:00 - [190] -

Caldari Citizen 34515	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:34:00 - [191] support this. Wheres the ambulation youve been promising for YEARS!
Nathan Yates Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:35:00 - [192] signed
Scorian Draith	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:35:00 - [193]
Aviditas	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:36:00 - [194] Signed
Ana Valeri	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:37:00 - [195] agreed
Naja Salihah	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:44:00 - [196] /signed
Dumhuman II	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:45:00 - [197] Signed. I can understand removing the 1000 AU safes but at least keep the ones that are out of ship scan range (15-20 AU).
Kendra Prime	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:46:00 - [198] Signed
Belakian The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:46:00 - [199] make it so everyone can make deep safe spots. don't delete peoples stuff. Fix probing/scanning to help find deep safe spots. Current Training: ePeen
charlie ZA The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:48:00 - [200] Seriously CCP Fix things that need fixing. As far as I'm aware the "Have Nots" are quite capable of making their own deep safe spots, they just need to put enough time into google. Rather do something more constructive with probes or another way of finding these nasty Deep Safes. Charlie ZA

Nero Prime Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:48:00 - [201] signed
Balthamael hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:49:00 - [202] /signed
Rayne Stryker Versus Gloria Omnis Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:49:00 - [203] This is definitely the wrong way to handle "deep safes". CCP, please rethink what you are doing here. I would be happy for a rework of the scanning to make them easier to fine, but throwing up this wall and destroying player property doesn't fit with the philosophy you have portrayed yourself as having.
SheriffFruitfly	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:49:00 - [204] Signed. Removing deep safes without fixing the reason why ppl make them is just idiocy. __________________________________________________________ Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Crovan The Praxis Initiative Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:50:00 - [205] Supported. While I agree with curbing deep safe creation, Thus could result in substantial loss of assets for those simply taking a break from the game, and could cause them to leave permanently.
angeleyess Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:50:00 - [206] -Angeleyess- CEI - RZR
arf 1 Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:51:00 - [207]
Diethor	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:51:00 - [208] signed also
Tia Too	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:53:00 - [209] Bridges to deep safes is one of the best ways to get a fleet into a system camped by a huge fleet without lagging out. This is because of the LAG INTRODUCED IN DOMINION. Please fix the problem before you remove the workaround.
Jager Da The Kairos Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:55:00 - [210] Supported.

Siena Petrucis German Kings Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:55:00 - [211] Fix jump-in lag first.
Song Li MinmaTire Corporation LTD	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:55:00 - [212] Agreed. More sand for the sandbox -------- http://bit.ly/4fwFuYhttp://bit.ly/18UQ7D[/i
Thirler The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:57:00 - [213] I agree. Especially because currently it is almost impossible to have a large fleet fight without using a deep safe to get into system
Lothran T'hrekkar	Posted - 2010.04.13 18:57:00 - [214] Signed.
Brill Ama	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:00:00 - [215] I support at least getting input from the sandbox community first.
Azudeth	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:00:00 - [216] Sign
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:02:00 - [217] I sign this.
Noamd	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:05:00 - [218] Supported
The Hat Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:06:00 - [219] signed, fix the lag first
Krispy Dingo Strangers in a Strange Land	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:10:00 - [220] Edited by: Krispy Dingo on 13/04/2010 19:10:31 this reminds me of the ghost training fiasco. _____________________________ http://twitter.com/krispy_dingo

Raiden Kaine Semper Liber	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:13:00 - [221] signed
dabatman Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:14:00 - [222] made a post in the other thread about this, I fully support re-evaluation of this absurd idea without at least being lied to that its supposed to fix lag
Boris Borison War Or Pay Restitution	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:15:00 - [223] signed
Makar Kravchenko	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:23:00 - [224] /signage
Ajunta P'all Black Storm Cartel	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:24:00 - [225] Signed.
Jamus Gorrelius Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:24:00 - [226] CCP you have larger issues. Deep safes are the only chance any one has of getting into a lagged out system. Your main priority should be FIX what you BROKE with the release of dominion. In a nut shell fix this horrible FLEET LAG.
Dal Deinvisu Ora Nova BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:24:00 - [227] Keep them in, make them sane, buff DSPs or devote time to new mechanics. "We didn't have time to do better" is not an excuse for bad design.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:25:00 - [228] Originally by: Thirler I agree. Especially because currently it is almost impossible to have a large fleet fight without using a deep safe to get into system This. This signature is useless, but it is red.
SMOOC	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:27:00 - [229] Thumbs up
0verkill Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:32:00 - [230] signed 0verkill Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean we aren't out to get you.

Braxton Mazimus	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:46:00 - [231] /supported... FIX THE LAG! its ridiculous to be honest...
Jarik Utoni Valhalla Industries	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:47:00 - [232] Edited by: Jarik Utoni on 13/04/2010 19:47:50 supported, Edit: actually click the thumbs up __________________ -Jarik Utoni, --Cov Ops Pilot ---T2 Frigate Specialist d(^.^)b
Pathfinder Prime	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:47:00 - [233] yep
Oiro	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:54:00 - [234] /signed and supported. How difficult would it be to create "deep space probes" specifically designed to look for these deep space safes?
swordmaster125 Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:55:00 - [235] Supporting page 8 of an epic threadnaught
RhoneHawke	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:55:00 - [236] signed for gawd sakes what are you thinking when you cant even fix minor lag.
Praetor Novak Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:56:00 - [237] Placing an "invisible" all powerful wall that limits the astrophysics of the game by not allowing pilots to move in the areas of deep space between solar systems would be a great blow to the realism of EVE. If anything you should expand the ability of pilots to fly in deep space with new modules that allow faster travel in these regions and expand the roll of scanner probes to follow. Think outside the box instead of creating more restrictive boxes. CCP Pull your heads out - this is a bad move.
Gaurina Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:56:00 - [238]
Braxton Mazimus	Posted - 2010.04.13 19:59:00 - [239] Originally by: Dal Deinvisu Keep them in, make them sane, buff DSPs or devote time to new mechanics. "We didn't have time to do better" is not an excuse for bad design. agreed!
Praetor Novak Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:05:00 - [240] Oh yeah and this latest pile of ** with large fleet lag introduced in Dominion, that is your PRIORITY NUMBER ONE!** You really don't want me jumping on the "Give us lag free fleet battles back" soapbox in the forums, as I've done in the past.

Shaka Quatuic	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:06:00 - [241] signed!!!!
Dr Whoszat	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:07:00 - [242] signed...
Jokurra The Necromongers Clandestine Encounters	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:10:00 - [243] /signed. Quote: Hierachy be damned, anarchists are the next step of evolution!
Slyferz hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:14:00 - [244] signed
tx eight Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:16:00 - [245]
md5oogle Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:26:00 - [246] signed.
Lamis 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:26:00 - [247] remove the ability to make new safes, fine. Not great, but dealable. But destruction of all ships outside said area is ****ing insane.
FlameGlow Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:29:00 - [248] Supportin dis
Teclador Stardust Heavy Industries Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:31:00 - [249] Edited by: Teclador on 13/04/2010 20:31:23 /signed Absolutely not needed to remove deep saves. --------- Solong Teclador
Teslana The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:34:00 - [250] Signed

Talinthi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:36:00 - [251] I don't disagree with the hard cap on system sizes as the only way those areas of the system are accessible is via bugs in the game. As for the destruction of property at those spots the ships/players should be moved within the new system boundaries, not arbitrarily destroyed. So I am supporting this, CCP stop making decisions that could possibly effect large numbers of people for large quantities of isk.
Elhaym Kirov The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:44:00 - [252] Signed.
Rochel Hakiri hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:47:00 - [253] signed
Geralt Rivia Xanadu Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:48:00 - [254]
Qdlaty	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:55:00 - [255] Signed
Zeturi 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 20:57:00 - [256] I'm sure there would be a lot less anger if CCP actually made it so you could get into a system by any means other then a 1000 au deep safe. As this is one of the few things allowing people to get into a system it's pretty ridiculous to remove it before you even "fix" the lag. In case you havn't noticed CCP if 200 people are on a gate and you jump in you wont load and literally an entire 200 man fleet can die without more then 10 people loading the system. Fix lag then worry about deep safes tbh.
Tornim Hades Renegades	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:00:00 - [257] support this topic
Levistus Junior Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:04:00 - [258] Supported.
Sajeera	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:10:00 - [259] Making the sandbox even smaller, no deep space anymore??!! Whos idea is this, Nozh again? Its bad advertising for the game itself, imagine what will learn about space in EvE some newbie pilot in his first flying hours: "So dude this is called stargate, behing the stargate there is invisible wall." "Lolwut??!!!!" "Yeah, you heard me, its invisible wall dude, welcome to Age of Conan reloaded"
JamDark	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:19:00 - [260] signed

Dienios	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:20:00 - [261] Signed.
JD beta	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:25:00 - [262] signed
Kerzack	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:29:00 - [263] There hasn't ever been a problem with deep-safes... ...yet there are numerous problems that still haven't been addressed yet. (but we've been promised fixes) Kill this idea please...
Micky Nozawa	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:43:00 - [264] HUH??!! Other MMO companies are doing their best to remove the exact same player limitations and you are implementing this willingly??!!! There are hundreds of things that need your attention and you are coming with this?! Instead of wasting time and making this game more unfun, spend some 10 minutes in writing the 2 correct digits in the rockets explosion velocity table for example.
Vospri Yon Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:45:00 - [265] signed. Fix other issues, before even looking at this. Also wtf insta popping for logged of super caps, no need for this.
Robdon Baptism oF Fire The G0dfathers	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:45:00 - [266] Edited by: Robdon on 13/04/2010 21:45:25 signed
Sunkara The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:47:00 - [267] Definitely supported!
ZANTIAGO	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:48:00 - [268] signed
bloody johnroberts Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:49:00 - [269] totally agree this is just wrong pls think this through ccp
Hawza	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:49:00 - [270] CCP Don't be epically **ing idiotic enough to actually do this ty stupid idea. Seriously.. **ing fix lag first, then we can talk.

InnerDrive Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:49:00 - [271] supported
Azalinn	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:51:00 - [272] Signed
Toromi Biko	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:52:00 - [273] Signed and supported
Sandest Riche	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:54:00 - [274]
Xavier Pike	Posted - 2010.04.13 21:54:00 - [275] Signed. This is absolutely and totally ridiculous. I don't know what CCP is thinking.
Z0D Rubycom Matrix United Corporations Of Modern Eve	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:00:00 - [276] Support fully as well. Click below for my manifesto.
DeLaBu Hive Bound Technologies Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:01:00 - [277] Signed.
Xeent Tsool	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:03:00 - [278] Signed.
Traderjohn Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:04:00 - [279]
Salvoxia Jelly Baby Corporation Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:05:00 - [280] signed

Endis Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:05:00 - [281]
Ridlara	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:06:00 - [282] Edited by: Ridlara on 13/04/2010 22:06:39 signed
Mips64	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:07:00 - [283] Signed
Sarazael XVI	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:08:00 - [284] signed as well.
Kersh Marelor	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:08:00 - [285] Definately earned my signature. Fix the lag, fix the borked balancing and other stuff. Quit focusing on crap issues like gimicky planet graphics and deep-safes.
Aphatasis	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:09:00 - [286]
Butternut Squash Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:09:00 - [287] I am jealous of my wife ... she already has a titan :)
Risar Honosa Amarr Hive Bound Technologies Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:10:00 - [288] Signed
Silva Krell Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:11:00 - [289] 1st they make it impossible to jump into a huge defending blob and then they want to take away the only way to have a chance at doing so and living. This nerf will damage the game.
Rinchi Lead Invasion Team Fidelas Constans	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:13:00 - [290] Signed.

Keena Vertan Minmatar	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:14:00 - [291] Supporting this opposition to the removal.
Sascha Ales Gallente Fenix Divina Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:14:00 - [292] Signed! --- Veni, Vidi, Vici - Giulio Cesare Venimmo, vedemmo e senza indugio lo inculammo - Peter Venkman 尊敬名誉自由
Kralin Ignatov The Arrow Project	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:18:00 - [293] ccp, rethink this please, supported ______________________ There once was a killboard for BoB, then there was no BoB. - killboard.net
Tia Jone	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:18:00 - [294] Signed.
Canadian1 Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:26:00 - [295]
Qeesa	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:26:00 - [296] This restriction will only damage the game. Don't know who came with the idea and who gave a green light to a bullcrap like this but they really dont have idea what negative impact this will have on EVE.
S1euth The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:30:00 - [297]
Banear	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:33:00 - [298] Signed
Vix633	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:33:00 - [299] signed
Quetzalcoatl III	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:33:00 - [300] I don't agree with not removing anything farther out than 10AU, because the only way for new players to have access to that kind of safes is by obtaining bookmarks from other players. However, I would agree with the idea of changing how Deep Safe spots are created, and give players the ability to create them. If that would hurt the game's stability, then I would accept the idea of using specialised ships or modules. So, I dissagree with your point. I agree with deleting everything behind this new "wall", as deep safe spots are now.

ovenproofjet Swords of Clarity	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:34:00 - [301] Definately could be handled better with more player input
Chienka Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:35:00 - [302] Edited by: Chienka on 13/04/2010 22:34:50 bonkers, i say
Gryana	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:35:00 - [303] I don't have many, but it's unfair to people who aren't active atm.
Silken Touch	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:37:00 - [304] Yeah crap to the players, (your paying customers)
Minthos 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:38:00 - [305] Signed !
Quential	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:39:00 - [306] Make it so we can warp anywhere. Or warp to our probes. Make the game more of a sandbox, not less!
Julius Perfecto	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:39:00 - [307] Great idea CCP take all the guys stuff off them (Scarcasm anyone?)
Heitaro Kimura Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:41:00 - [308] Fix grid load trouble instead of taking away grid-load-survival tools.
Jonny Suede Win Tech	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:44:00 - [309] signed
Corelous Alterrian Amarr Beyond Evil and Good United Star Federation	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:47:00 - [310] **** poor, So now we have walls in our sandbox? Come one CCP.

Stublick Hunt Prince's of the Universe	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:49:00 - [311]
Excello	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:51:00 - [312]
spencers001	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:52:00 - [313]
Deja Nay Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:52:00 - [314]
Evolutius	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:54:00 - [315] It's not very nice to destroy paying customers assets.
Battle Tested Shiva	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:55:00 - [316] I agree, some kind of alternative action needs to be made instead of destroying the assets of anyone logged off at a deep safe...ie...move them inside the 10au range from the farthest planet ring
Alfa225 Infinity Enterprises Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:56:00 - [317] signed
Q OSC Taurus Quantum Technologies Taurus Quantum Dynamics	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:56:00 - [318] Destroying peoples property is one bridge to far imo.
QwaarJet hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 22:58:00 - [319] Edited by: QwaarJet on 13/04/2010 22:58:58 Signed. Good luck to the CSM in preventing this, they've done a stellar job so far.
Seamus Donohue	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:08:00 - [320] In my opinion, ships should be able to warp to arbitrary XYZ coordinates, provided that it's not warp disrupted. If CCP deems that ships very far from the local star are generally too hard to scan down, then some thought should be given to making Deep Space Scanner Probes easier to use. __________________________________________________ Survivor of Teskanen, fan of John Rourke.

Koronakesh Varion Galactic	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:09:00 - [321] wtf.... seriously.
FunGuy	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:10:00 - [322] Signed FunGuy Proud to be Xanadu Xanadu T2 BP's
MadMentor Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:20:00 - [323] Edited by: MadMentor on 13/04/2010 23:20:41 /signed
Typhena 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:22:00 - [324] Think better about it CCP. Not smart way to deal with what you think it is an issue. --- Sig Under Construction
somafiend Caldari	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:32:00 - [325] Signed
Blacken Dekar The Graduates	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:34:00 - [326] Signed
Tako Wasabi	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:35:00 - [327] /signed
Kandrew Dorak The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:35:00 - [328]
Smertrios Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.04.13 23:36:00 - [329] I agree that there is an issue with deep safes but instead of nerfing and restricting us CCP should take this as an opportunity to expand the tools in the "sand box". If people cant be found then give us a way to find them, that would be a positive change which would be warmly received. Justification for the change is laughable when we consider things like T2 BPOS. Moving everyone within 10AU has the feel of a level or area in another game not the immersive sandbox we expect. We already miss much of the feel of the size of space with gates... in real space most of it is between the stars! At a time when large fights are very difficult with Lag it sounds like players have found an imaginative way to help themselves. If this change has to come in then this is not the right time and CCP should wait until the severs are at least as stable as they used to be. Destroying everything seems very heavy handed and not very "customer" friendly In short i find the changes disappointing, unimaginative and lazy....I have come to expect more from CCP tbh and think they can do much better.
Ash Naseen Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:05:00 - [330] Invisible walls eh?! And i thought Nozh's target painters was the pinnacle of stupidity

Malekan	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:07:00 - [331] Ok, I just got to say...WTF!? takes aim at the idea and fires Fix the lag issues before you even look at this. You should start at the top in dealing with issues and then work towards the bottom, no the other way around.
Derkan Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:10:00 - [332]
Shozo The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:18:00 - [333] i support this topic. --
OmgNoFreeNames	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:26:00 - [334]
SSN 609 The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:30:00 - [335] Edited by: SSN 609 on 14/04/2010 00:31:06 /signed
Seth Ruin Ominous Corp Primary.	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:45:00 - [336]
Quedrin Vornel	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:49:00 - [337] supported. This is silly.
Komahal	Posted - 2010.04.14 00:52:00 - [338] <sigh> Having solved all the vitual worlds problems, CCP begins to attack "harmless" issues that thier customers use to get around thier laggy code. Signed.
Kronos Hopeslayer Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:15:00 - [339] /signed I suggest moving all the offending objects withint 10 AU of the sun.
Mistress Frome Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:16:00 - [340]

Dentatus	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:19:00 - [341] Signed Further discussion is required. Deep Safe points are unfair yes, but this is not the way they should be handled.
Damagran The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:32:00 - [342] /signed. CCP please reconsider your decision. Respectfully request you delay this decision at least until the Fall/Winter expansion to allow more time for a discussion and possible alternative ideas. Thank you.
Tui 1	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:44:00 - [343] Wow this is a new low for CCP, destroying and basically poding everyone that has a deep safe. Not a good idea.
Hiivo Salvage and Relocation	Posted - 2010.04.14 01:50:00 - [344]
Nice Melons Galactic Union	Posted - 2010.04.14 02:00:00 - [345] dumb! FIX LAG! FIX anything! You guys need to take a look at making the game better not limiting players abilities. FIX THE BROKEN CRAP FIRST!
Lohdi Dirt Nap Squad	Posted - 2010.04.14 02:19:00 - [346]
Lady Miah Alternative Solutions	Posted - 2010.04.14 02:54:00 - [347] CCP needs more clue
Marcus Akhellan Ch3mic4l Warfare	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:06:00 - [348] Whatever the devs have been smoking.... I want nothing to do with, cause it clearly rots your brain.
AndrewNardella	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:19:00 - [349] I find this action reeks of laziness, why not level the playing field by making a mechanic to allow any pilot (with correct skills assets or whatever) instead.
EdwardNardella Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:21:00 - [350] If these spots are "virtually impossible to find" or however CCP said then why not instead of hurting players and removing functionality add functionality and create a mechanic to enable the finding ships at these locations! CCRES is recruiting pilots who want to live in WSpace/Wormholes. Fill out an application here!

OrlandoNardella	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:24:00 - [351] I can not yet fly anything bigger than a battleship. I find it abhorrent and cruel to destroy ships in these locations. So what if they are exploiting? Why give warning then. If you want to punish people for using this exploit then punish equally and give no warning.
HarperNardella	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:28:00 - [352] I am running out of things to say about this issue. Perhaps because it is simple and clear cut.
IcarusNardella	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:30:00 - [353] Deep space has so much potential for awesome features, your closing a door on your own foot CCP. I am not impressed.
UlyssesNardella	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:31:00 - [354] I can't remember the last time an assembly hall topic has exploded so rapidly. CCP your players love this game and the signatories of this thread believe you are hurting EVE. I also don't remember the last time I supported a thread with all my accounts!
Miesterio	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:32:00 - [355] [03:29:20] Miesterio > Also, i'm 100000000000% against the deep safe nerfs, as the effort they spent on that could have been better suited in rooting out whats causeing lag since dominion, and improving logging functions.
Maverick 52 Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:33:00 - [356] :thumbs up:
scsx 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:33:00 - [357]
Mimiru Minahiro	Posted - 2010.04.14 03:38:00 - [358] Edited by: Mimiru Minahiro on 14/04/2010 03:39:00 I beleive the last time the player base was this against an idea was when CCP nerfed the base resistance rate on EM and EXP dmg. Supporting thread (But still making my 9.99 AU bookmarks, so that when CCP ignores us, like they did back then, so it doesnt take long to make a bookmark "just" inside the wall.....) No need to gimp a setup with cloaks so i can go AFK in safety anymore Edit...forgot to clicky duh support box
cypriss Caldari Epiphyte Mining and Exploration	Posted - 2010.04.14 04:58:00 - [359] /signed
Bemos dei 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 05:00:00 - [360] Am relatively new player and can see the consequences of destroying the user items in game, lots of hard work to go bye bye in a badly thought out game engineer's plan. Rethink this one CCP. Support the OP motion.

Kallieah The Unknown Bar and Pub Elysium Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 05:05:00 - [361] Edited by: Kallieah on 14/04/2010 05:05:03 Agreed with OP. I'd rather see MORE activity and usage of deep space instead of less. It's out there and could be both fun and interesting for the community. Also, deleting peoples' ships is very unfriendly to the player population regardless of advance notice. There has to be a better way to do this if deep space -must- be locked down at all. Edit: Yaay top of page 13!
KptLt Henke	Posted - 2010.04.14 05:34:00 - [362] signed
sellina Krupp-Stahl Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.14 05:35:00 - [363] 0/signed
Laura Caprice	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:06:00 - [364] Signed!
Kalem Nalesh Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:06:00 - [365] Edited by: Kalem Nalesh on 14/04/2010 06:06:52 Signed
Nooodlzs The Army Cult of War	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:06:00 - [366] Signed, personally I feel that this is CCP's way of cutting down on the lag monster, less variables for the server to deal with but it is a terrible idea and will not cure lag, bad code is bad code. CCP do your JOB.....WE are paying your wages.
Altara Caldire	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:10:00 - [367] Signed.
Normandy Xavier Tower of Ravens	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:13:00 - [368] Signed.
Quesa Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:18:00 - [369]
Krennel Darius Caldari Nova Security Systems	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:19:00 - [370] /supported. CCP, you must have been smoking some good stuff when you thought of this one. Plz share. _________________________________________________ If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris

Borun Tal	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:27:00 - [371] Amazed even more now how CCP doesn't give a crap what the PAYING customers have to say about changes to the game. Curious how CCP is more interested in making PAYING customers play the game THEIR way, rather than how the PAYING customers want to play it. Curious... Not unheard of, but every comparison that comes to mind has always resulted in first product and then company failure. I expect my interest to wane with the "rumored" changed to Dominion. Maybe a few years as a paying customer is enough. Time to move on? And no, you can't haz my stuff.
Rook Sanderas	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:31:00 - [372] x signed.
Jump MacClone	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:41:00 - [373] Signed. I'd like to hear more compelling reasons for this. See my blog at http://www.votemacclone.com/Jump_for_CSM!/Eventful_Horizons/Entries/2010/4/13_Poseidon_Nerfed.html (Full url so you know where you're going ). If I get elected to CSM I will push for the vastness of space to be accessible to players. It's all right to nerf the Poseidon 'loggofski' exploit, but it's not allright to put a wall in space.
TOMACHINE Beach Boys Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 06:54:00 - [374] signed, fix the game first, don't remove our way around your failure
Eleanor Tsukikaze	Posted - 2010.04.14 07:41:00 - [375] Agreed, I'm not familiar with large fleet battle lag workaround mechanics but if you have to bring new and old players on the same line, buff new players instead of gimping old ones. Include a mechanic that's supposed to be used for creating good safe spots, add enough range to get at least off ship scan range and if that is too long for current combat probes, then add better probes. Destroying stuff in deep safes is just plain stupid.
E Wan	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:12:00 - [376] Signed.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:23:00 - [377] Implementation is a bit harsh with destroying ships in deep safes but whatever. I guess I am one of the few hardcore players left...I would like all safe spots removed as space should never be safe in EVE. If you need a deep safe spot to do something then you are already pretty fail at playing EVE. Deep safes dumb down the game and make it easier, death to deep safes! Originally by: Jim Raynor EVE needs danger, EVE needs risks, EVE needs combat, even piracy, without these things, the game stagnates to a trivial game centering around bloating your wallet with no purpose.
Mr Frank	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:28:00 - [378] Signed!
Hertford Ars ex Discordia Here Be Dragons	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:48:00 - [379] Tea's right on the money on this. CCP, however, do have to be seen to be doing something about an unintended game mechanic that is public knowledge and fully explained in a PDF.
Naomi Knight Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:49:00 - [380] Originally by: Vaal Erit Implementation is a bit harsh with destroying ships in deep safes but whatever. I guess I am one of the few hardcore players left...I would like all safe spots removed as space should never be safe in EVE. If you need a deep safe spot to do something then you are already pretty fail at playing EVE. Deep safes dumb down the game and make it easier, death to deep safes! This ,why else would ppl need these unscannable safe spot than to make eve too safe? Oh btw you have plenty of time to move your crap out of those spots.

Graifazig Gallente Strategic Solutions Ltd. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:51:00 - [381] Totally signed. 0.0 large scale warfare will be a pain in the ass w/o deepspace cynos against massive system/grid lags.
Bernadictus Divine Retribution Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:52:00 - [382] Deep safes are practically the only way to get into a system, and actually get a grid load. And do the 'massive battles with thousands of players' you so dearly like to advert. Do. Not. Nerf. Deepsafes.
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.14 08:56:00 - [383] Originally by: CCP Lemur We've altered our plan addressing various concerns that you all voiced here in a reasonable manner. There will be a follow-up blog later today or tomorrow. You guys can stop with the emo rage tears now.
Josh Duhammel	Posted - 2010.04.14 09:24:00 - [384] /signed
Keilateau Shakor	Posted - 2010.04.14 09:33:00 - [385] /signed
Nagistar Pat Sharp's Potato Rodeo Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.14 09:45:00 - [386] signed The heavy-handed sledgehammer approach smacks of a knee-jerk reaction with little actual thought put in as to how this actually affects players. Do you actually care so little for veteran players who have spent years building up the assets that you may be wiping out with the click of a mouse? A one month warning of destruction of potentially hundreds of billions of ISK? Are you serious? At the very least run the script in read-only mode and drop all the players an email giving them a months notice. Don't expect everyone to have seen the Dev blog or in-game news. What if I left my titan logged off at a deep safe and went on holiday for a month? Fix the broken fleet warfare before you go breaking a method we have to actually get around your fail and have some fun. Continuing down this path of slapping your veteran players will only hurt your revenues in the long run. We are the people who supported you for many years and bring many more players into the game. I for one wonder how much more of this I'll put up with before I just cancel my accounts and stop promoting the game to others.
Mistress Amarina	Posted - 2010.04.14 09:49:00 - [387]
Shoim	Posted - 2010.04.14 09:52:00 - [388] Signed. CCP : you are putting limits to a universe without limits. The deep safes were created by ingenious players who understood the game mechanics better than the devs. Instead of deleting them CCP could have embrace the idea of deep safes and make a legit way of creating them and scanning them. Balance this two - creating and scanning - and you get a new feature instead of all this flame from all of us.
Graifazig Strategic Solutions Ltd. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.14 09:55:00 - [389] Forgot to check the checkbox. /signed
Khanid Wrynn	Posted - 2010.04.14 10:03:00 - [390] Signed CCP should start listening to players. Bare this in mind aswell no players no game.

Mbeda	Posted - 2010.04.14 10:32:00 - [391] /signed
Ray Tucker	Posted - 2010.04.14 10:40:00 - [392] Originally by: Naomi Knight Originally by: Vaal Erit Implementation is a bit harsh with destroying ships in deep safes but whatever. I guess I am one of the few hardcore players left...I would like all safe spots removed as space should never be safe in EVE. If you need a deep safe spot to do something then you are already pretty fail at playing EVE. Deep safes dumb down the game and make it easier, death to deep safes! This ,why else would ppl need these unscannable safe spot than to make eve too safe? Oh btw you have plenty of time to move your crap out of those spots. There are no unscannable safespots since probing was changed in apocrypha, you can move probes anywhere you know
Ecatherina W AAA.FSI Holding Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:07:00 - [393] Signed *** Empress of the Multiverse *** CEO of AAA.FSI Holding
TheLordofAllandNothing NailorTech Industries RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:11:00 - [394] Thanks for wrecking the one thing that could actually work against your biggest failure ccp: Dominion. _______________________ Fix rockets in '09 =(
kuky	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:21:00 - [395] Dumb nerf at the wrong time.
Shammyra 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:25:00 - [396]
Neyko Turama Black Arrows	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:28:00 - [397] signed
Altrinsic Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:33:00 - [398] signed
Researcher123	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:52:00 - [399] SIGNED!!!!
Angus Runefire Universal Peace Operation	Posted - 2010.04.14 11:59:00 - [400]

Nagusaran Rensia	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:03:00 - [401]
MINESVSGANG	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:04:00 - [402]
Husonaut	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:06:00 - [403]
I SoStoned	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:15:00 - [404] Removing Deep-Safes: Good idea. Destroying goods forgotten there: BAD idea. All such items should be moved to the clone station of the owner, or a nearby lowsec station if capital ships. --- [i]It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set
Pinco Pez UK Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:17:00 - [405] agreed
Agent302	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:20:00 - [406] Supported This seems heavy handed and simple. I would think the creators of such a deep, thought-provoking game might be able to find a more elegant solution to the deep-safe 'problem'. Or failing that, perhaps the community could be consulted first...
Herar Domain	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:26:00 - [407] Signed. DeepSpace Spots are nice thing and give a chance to get into a crowded system without crashing :)
Malevar	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:28:00 - [408] Supported.
Re Ani	Posted - 2010.04.14 12:58:00 - [409]
Kubashi The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:00:00 - [410] Signed.

Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:12:00 - [411] Originally by: Khanid Wrynn Signed CCP should start listening to players. Bare this in mind aswell no players no game. Players should learn how to read before emo ragging. Originally by: CCP Lemur We've altered our plan addressing various concerns that you all voiced here in a reasonable manner. There will be a follow-up blog later today or tomorrow.
Cayden Til	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:14:00 - [412] /signed
FlyingSpoonyBadger	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:14:00 - [413] Signed
Cemial	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:20:00 - [414] /signed
Reeja	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:21:00 - [415] Signed
JasonKuehn The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:23:00 - [416] You must fix lag issues that require deep safe cynos to be used before you can remove them. Once that is solved, you can remove the ability to use/make deep safes, but there is no reason to destroy everything out there. Just move it.
Chee hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:45:00 - [417] I dont really see the gain in this. Perhaps give everything outside this "10 au wall" an added signature penalty (standing out from the empty background space signals) so its easier to find or something like that.
Lord Helghast	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:50:00 - [418] got to agree the handling of this is unacceptable. its SPACE why is their an artificial bubble we're allowed in?????????????????????????????????????????????
Flameable	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:51:00 - [419] Signed
Neo Gabriel Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2010.04.14 13:58:00 - [420] Supported. Fix Lag before you "fix" anything else!

Eshnala	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:07:00 - [421] signed
Angel HUN Destructive Influence IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:14:00 - [422] Fix the problem, not the solution.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:25:00 - [423] /signed There really should be a way to do this without meta-gaming though.. would like to point my ship into any direction I want and give the 'energy' command
Kul'them	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:27:00 - [424] Signed!
Wirrtuell Rennfeuer Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:42:00 - [425] Edited by: Wirrtuell on 14/04/2010 14:42:02 signed This "Wall" is a step away from old ELITE-Game and the spirit od EvE.
Redshirt I	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:52:00 - [426] This only limits our universe immersion and now makes it feel like a fishbowl, which can only be bad for CCP. Rethink this idea and the employment of devs who think its a good idea. Red
Rob DaBank The Trigger Happy Express	Posted - 2010.04.14 14:58:00 - [427] 'Walls' in space. lol Stop making my probing skills even more useless
Punkt Landung	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:01:00 - [428] Improve/streamline technology to support existing universe in good smooth running order before restricting existing universe in order to free up resources for new content. Signed
Secop's	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:17:00 - [429] Originally by: Neo Gabriel Supported. Fix Lag before you "fix" anything else! /signed !!!
Nico Terces	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:18:00 - [430] If we'd get new content which requires these boundaries... But I guess we won't see that until 6 expansions down the line.... Thread supported.

Faloe Cardboard. Vagrant Disorder	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:26:00 - [431] Signed.
Darth Allegra	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:27:00 - [432] Signed.
Presbyter	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:42:00 - [433] Signed.
Redshirt I	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:51:00 - [434] forgot to add my +1
Implanator	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:52:00 - [435] signed
Pandorium9 Pandorium Prime	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:54:00 - [436]
Griznatle Jersey's Best Dancers ARROGANCE.	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:58:00 - [437] CCP > "Hey gois lets keep ****en off the people that pay us to pixel spaceship, that should work" oh, on the other hand, did you read my sig? CanihazurBumpBump?
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.04.14 15:59:00 - [438] Signed.
Remora Slayblood	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:05:00 - [439] Signed.
eliminator2	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:09:00 - [440] aggreed just move the stuff within the station or closet station that is not player owned mmmmkay ----------------------------------------------- I met Eliminator1..... I chewed it up, and spat it out. Now, he is my minion. I kill miners and mission runners people say, I call them target pra

Bruno Bourque	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:11:00 - [441] Originally by: CCP Lemur We've altered our plan addressing various concerns that you all voiced here in a reasonable manner. There will be a follow-up blog later today or tomorrow.
Cian Korwin	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:28:00 - [442] Signed!
Draumr Kopa The Perfect Storm Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:31:00 - [443] an unreal waste of dev time that could have been put towards fixing an actual problem like LAG full support
Neutrino Sunset Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:34:00 - [444] Signed
MJ Maverick IronPig Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.14 16:49:00 - [445] /signed ------------------ Forum sig limits are too tight. So I cba to have a sig any more. CCP arse kissing drones are not welcome in my threads. CCP are not perfect.
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:00:00 - [446] 10AU is too small, and deleting everything left at these safes is a terrible idea. CEO \| Blog
KosmikZA The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:10:00 - [447] signed
Carniflex StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:41:00 - [448] Deeps safes are needed in sov warfare. If finding ships in there is issue make new probes that are good at finding stuff in deep safes but useless for nearby objects.
Bongvir	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:41:00 - [449]
Salasilm	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:41:00 - [450]

Brian Khan StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:42:00 - [451]
Doris Dragonbreath	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:42:00 - [452]
Mia Silverfang	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:43:00 - [453] I want my deep safes.
Vlad Wormwing StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:43:00 - [454] Not my deep safes.
Li Freeman	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:43:00 - [455]
Linda Dreamwalker	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:44:00 - [456]
Kaarnakivi	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:44:00 - [457]
NeutronRonk	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:45:00 - [458]
Tehnomaag StarHunt Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:45:00 - [459] I agree. We need deep safes in sov warfare and if needed alternative method of creating them should be introduced.
Orree Dynaverse Corporation Sodalitas XX	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:51:00 - [460] Supported. ---------- "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli

Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.04.14 17:54:00 - [461] Abso**inglutely signed, confining the "Sandbox" to a Palm full of sand just isn't cool. Keeping in mind that they have countered logoffski warps it will be impossible to reach behind the 10AU spots so realistically there will only be a handful of players who have bookmarks behind the stargates and planets making it EXTREMELY unbalanced as a handful of players will have ~10au bookmarks from celestials whereas the vast majority of the player base will not have. Keeping in mind that it is perfectly viable for anyone at the current state TQ is at to make their own "Deep safe spots" and it isn't that hard to probe out to a few hundred AU with Deep safe probes. CCP should take a different apporach to solving problems rather than listening to the first thing "Nerfoper" otherwise know as a "CCP Developer" puts on the table. It's the easy way out everytime and I for one am getting **ing sick of it. Similar to minerals worth crap all... instead of killing off the masses of macro miners they nerf missions. Get your act together CCP
Firvain Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.14 18:02:00 - [462] signed!
wiersma RBL Industries	Posted - 2010.04.14 18:05:00 - [463] I support keep deep space safe spots alive, dont limit the sandbox. ================================================ Mining is the extraction of valuable minerals or other geological materials from SPACE... :-P
Arboreal Feline Nondegradable Tritanium Space Rodents	Posted - 2010.04.14 18:07:00 - [464] /me Supports the topic in the face.
Atius Shinkan UK Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.14 18:33:00 - [465] Damn! Keep the deepsafe's and work on a probe solutions instead. Give use more challenges not limit them!
Joo Joobee	Posted - 2010.04.14 18:59:00 - [466] I do not support this topic. Deep safes are a special defect that have been exploited for far too long in this game. Learn to play in the same sandbox as everyone else, rather than use exploits to your personal advantage.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:14:00 - [467] Originally by: Joo Joobee I do not support this topic. Deep safes are a special defect that have been exploited for far too long in this game. Learn to play in the same sandbox as everyone else, rather than use exploits to your personal advantage. Everyone else is able to make deepsafe spots so its not a personal or even a corporation wide advantage. Everyone can make currently make them... learn to do so and you can even make them in an Orca.
Meluria Deshin	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:34:00 - [468] Support
Mulara Miran	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:34:00 - [469] support
Akirad Deshin Free-Space-Ranger	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:35:00 - [470]

Sandra Yates Minmatar Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:36:00 - [471] agreed
Aloma Deshin	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:36:00 - [472]
Yuniko Karisei	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:37:00 - [473]
XT 290	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:37:00 - [474] /signed
XT 280	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:38:00 - [475]
Illrean	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:40:00 - [476] Originally by: TeaDaze A recent dev blog stated that deep safes are going to be removed along with any items outside this new "Wall". We the undersigned disagree with the planned removal of existing deep safes (and related destruction of property) and request that CCP re-evaluate this decision with input from the players. Alternative methods for finding deep safes etc can be discussed, but the focus here is to show CCP that the players disagree with further limiting the sandbox. Please reply to this thread and tick the "support this topic" box to register your dissatisfaction. You put two issues here one of which I support and the other I can't. I am against the destruction of floating property, however, due to the questionable means used to create Poseidon Deep Safes I have to agree with their removal. I would also bet there are data base issues involved, EVE star systems are big, but every game has to set game field boundaries.
XT 270	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:40:00 - [477]
XT 3489	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:43:00 - [478]
Cpt Iwan 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.14 19:53:00 - [479] signed
SmokeyUK Gallente Battlestars Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:00:00 - [480] /signed

Allvater	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:10:00 - [481] signed
maya ibuki2 THORN Syndicate Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:11:00 - [482] supportin this, at least untill ccp fix the god damn lag. 0ok!
HansMeiser	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:12:00 - [483] signed
Schnaitl	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:13:00 - [484] signed
Hansguckindieluft	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:14:00 - [485] signed
HansWorscht	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:15:00 - [486] signed
HPC Larry	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:18:00 - [487] signed
mjed mazga Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.14 20:28:00 - [488] signed We've had fights before were the only way the fights happened was that both fleets bridged into the system via a deep safe. Don't mess more with our game than you already have. Do not remove deep safes until you fix the system load/grid load issues, otherwise 0.0 warfare becomes even more pointless.
Ted Breakers Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.14 21:51:00 - [489] Originally by: mjed mazga signed We've had fights before were the only way the fights happened was that both fleets bridged into the system via a deep safe. Don't mess more with our game than you already have. Do not remove deep safes until you fix the system load/grid load issues, otherwise 0.0 warfare becomes even more pointless. this
Caldrion Dosto Garoun Investment Bank	Posted - 2010.04.14 22:09:00 - [490] Signed. It¦s a horriable idea, that doesn¦t fix anything... Do something more constructive with your time CCP

Bardiok	Posted - 2010.04.14 22:20:00 - [491] signed...
rubico1337 Mnemonic Enterprises	Posted - 2010.04.14 22:34:00 - [492] Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes.
Doublewhopper	Posted - 2010.04.14 22:46:00 - [493] /signed
Bearclaww	Posted - 2010.04.14 23:00:00 - [494] /signed possible alternative: New Probe: deep space exploration probe, travels at 128AU per day, launch the probe like a standard moon probe. Lifetime of probe determines range, level 1 of deep space exploration = 1 day of flight time, up to level 5 which is 5 days of exploration and another skill for how many max that you can have. The probes can be listed in the journal and when they are finished you have a bookmark (in this case a maximum of 640AU's), also you can make a rule where it can only be fired within a certain range of a celestial object. deep space probes are still effective at probing people out w/ 8 of them 256AU each you can cover a lot of range to see what is out there. You can also make it so deep space probes are picked up via scanner probes as well. This will mean you do not need to constrict the universe; makes a new isk sink (make the skill cost some ISKies as well as the special NPC provided "bookmark probes"), and the deep space probing skill is no longer worthless. I LIKE the fact that you are not currently limited to the NPC stuff within range of the star; allow players to expand beyond the star with their current skills! Currently there IS a small eco system in deep space; don't destroy it please!!!!!
Katheyla German Kings Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.14 23:06:00 - [495] signed
Puterkapala	Posted - 2010.04.15 00:10:00 - [496] I like that guys idea for expanding deep space probes use. Adding a new income item and skill set.
Spiderchoke	Posted - 2010.04.15 00:13:00 - [497] It's not reasonable to destroy property for those people who may not be able to get to it to move it or for those people that are in the military and unable to log in and take care of it, or just taking a break from the game, but still paying dues to CCP.
Andre Coeurl TOHA Heavy Industries TOHA Conglomerate	Posted - 2010.04.15 00:35:00 - [498] /signed and countersigned --- --- ---
Gasig Howlsen Dark Nexxus	Posted - 2010.04.15 00:38:00 - [499] Signed
Nebulonus	Posted - 2010.04.15 00:42:00 - [500] /signed

stark thunder2	Posted - 2010.04.15 00:53:00 - [501] / sigined
pc dude Ghosts of Ragnarok	Posted - 2010.04.15 01:13:00 - [502]
SephusS	Posted - 2010.04.15 01:15:00 - [503] i'll miss them...
Catharsis Woo	Posted - 2010.04.15 02:15:00 - [504] /signed
Odyessus	Posted - 2010.04.15 02:20:00 - [505] /signed
Tonto Auri Vhero' Multipurpose Corp	Posted - 2010.04.15 02:26:00 - [506] Signed CCP learn to code properly and use resources on hand efficently. -- Thanks CCP for cu
Banlish Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.15 02:43:00 - [507] Supported.
Crystal Starbreeze	Posted - 2010.04.15 03:45:00 - [508] signed
Ancient Enemy	Posted - 2010.04.15 04:33:00 - [509] I sooo "support this topic".
Ur kahanu Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.15 05:13:00 - [510] How dare they touch my deep safe spots!! How dare they destroy people's assets in deep safe's!!!! Since when does space have a boundry!!! CCP, if you fix the lag issue i'll start paying RL money for my account's again.

LittleNova Caldari The Graduates Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.15 06:54:00 - [511] /signed. While I agree that compeltely unscannable deep safes need to go, everything that's scannable(let's say within the range of a Deep Space probe from a celestial) should be left as it is. Also, arbitrarly destroying people's stuff is bad. Also, how about fixing something that actually needs fixing instead of this? Like...ummm lag? Or rockets? Or the Hel?
Gagarish Amarr VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2010.04.15 07:20:00 - [512] Sighned. CCP go to HELL. U do it - I quit this fngkuci game.
Tawty	Posted - 2010.04.15 07:25:00 - [513] Seriously, WTF! Not even enough warning to get my ****e out.
xracerNL Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.15 07:59:00 - [514] Signed
Ralle030583 Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.15 08:05:00 - [515] /signed
Nangil	Posted - 2010.04.15 08:07:00 - [516] signed. ccp makes changes for changes. another stupid ****. soon the players who pay by credit card leave the game... Think better ccp.
ALTMACTEP XXX	Posted - 2010.04.15 08:09:00 - [517] signed. another total mistake by ccp.
NITRO STALKER	Posted - 2010.04.15 08:11:00 - [518] signed!!! make changes for players, not for changes...
Splithorizon 4S Corporation	Posted - 2010.04.15 08:20:00 - [519] Edited by: Splithorizon on 15/04/2010 08:20:14 I think 10AU and destroying all items is abit to extreme. Moving items and maybe 50-100AU atleast, sounds better to me.
Loash Demented But Determined	Posted - 2010.04.15 08:29:00 - [520] /signed

Baneken Aseveljet Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.15 09:29:00 - [521] /supported Correct way to do is to move stuff inside the set boundaries. While I understand the reasons (fleet boosting, assigning fighters etc. from an unscannable & unreachable safe) behind removal of everything from out side 10AU boundary, destroying super caps etc. immediately is way too harsh.
Miyu Gear Pangalactic Punks n' Playboys	Posted - 2010.04.15 09:40:00 - [522] --------------------------- "Those, who live by the sword, will be gunned down by those, who don't." FOR THE HONOUR OF THE CHAPTER!
Vanakov Mek'lanavar Sileo In Pacis	Posted - 2010.04.15 10:20:00 - [523]
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.15 10:43:00 - [524] Wow. The tears this thread is generating is pure win. Shame you guys quickly rage post and failed to read how CCP is re-evaluating this. Instead you just blindly rage on.
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.04.15 10:54:00 - [525] Originally by: TeaDaze We the undersigned disagree with the planned removal of existing deep safes (and related destruction of property) and request that CCP re-evaluate this decision with input from the players. We do? Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.15 10:57:00 - [526] Originally by: Marlona Sky Wow. The tears this thread is generating is pure win. Shame you guys quickly rage post and failed to read how CCP is re-evaluating this. Instead you just blindly rage on. With all due respect, until CCP actually state what they are planning to change it is valid for people to state their dissatisfaction with the original dev blog. It is however a shame that so many people saying /signed neglected to click the "Support" box when posting Originally by: Gunnanmon Originally by: TeaDaze We the undersigned disagree with the planned removal of existing deep safes (and related destruction of property) and request that CCP re-evaluate this decision with input from the players. We do? We in this context being the people who indicated their support of this thread. If you don't have a problem with the original implementation including deleting player property then you don't fit into the "we" here, no harm no foul. Vote TeaDaze for CSM5!
Asagi Kimura	Posted - 2010.04.15 11:03:00 - [527] /signed
ferullo0	Posted - 2010.04.15 11:56:00 - [528] Signed.
Jeannaqua	Posted - 2010.04.15 13:38:00 - [529] CCP, Space is big! It should stay that way!
Johnny Trigger	Posted - 2010.04.15 14:19:00 - [530] bad idea to put a limit on 'space'

Driven Instinct Silent Ascension	Posted - 2010.04.15 14:27:00 - [531] Signed
Evan Batarr	Posted - 2010.04.15 16:37:00 - [532] /signed (One of the) Dumbest Dev Blog(s) evah!
Arina Free-Space-Ranger	Posted - 2010.04.15 17:24:00 - [533] /singed
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.15 17:56:00 - [534] We can accept the removal of deep safes once the ability to put 200+ into a grid without it freaking out is added. Unless you also want to remove capital ships, because last I looked, no one is using them due to the grid bug. This signature is useless, but it is red.
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.15 18:00:00 - [535] Originally by: TeaDaze Originally by: Marlona Sky Wow. The tears this thread is generating is pure win. Shame you guys quickly rage post and failed to read how CCP is re-evaluating this. Instead you just blindly rage on. With all due respect, until CCP actually state what they are planning to change it is valid for people to state their dissatisfaction with the original dev blog. You should change your OP then. Right now if people read it, it is deceiving that CCP has not considered anything. Then again, I am enjoying all these emo tears form people threatened to have their super safe spots nerfed and the playing field leveled.
TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2010.04.15 18:57:00 - [536] Originally by: Marlona Sky You should change your OP then. Right now if people read it, it is deceiving that CCP has not considered anything. Until something more than "we are thinking about it and will update the dev blog at some point" comes out then the OP will remain as is. Originally by: Marlona Sky Then again, I am enjoying all these emo tears form people threatened to have their super safe spots nerfed and the playing field leveled. It doesn't level the playing field at all. People who used recent techniques to make off axis safes which are within the new space wall will still have an advantage over players who can only warp between celestials. And there are many many other "unfair" areas that are remaining untouched Implying that deep safes are utterly unbalancing the game for the majority of players are frankly absurd I don't class people saying signed as emo rage or tears, but we'll agree to disagree there Vote TeaDaze for CSM5!
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.15 20:55:00 - [537] I have read the dev blog, and frankly I'm stunned I have rather low opinion of CCP game designers, but even I didn't think they'd do something like this. This is a new low. Like many others, I'm deeply disappointed. Why must the game be changed to be more cumbersome and frustrating for the user? It goes completely against the nature of gaming - which is to entertain. It goes against personal feeling of progress - the game is regressing in features and capabilities. If scanning people down was the key motivator behind this change, then a much more appropriate solution would be to improve the scanning system to handle these cases. I'm just glad I was lucky enough to play this game in the years of 2005-2007, before it started becoming to annoying and frustrating.
Ayd TEMPLAR. Gentlemen's Club	Posted - 2010.04.15 21:32:00 - [538] /signed
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.15 21:39:00 - [539] Originally by: TeaDaze Until something more than "we are thinking about it and will update the dev blog at some point" comes out then the OP will remain as is. Like I said, I enjoy the tears. Originally by: TeaDaze Implying that deep safes are utterly unbalancing the game for the majority of players are frankly absurd Where did I imply that deep safes were utterly unbalancing the game? If you feel manipulating my words helps your thread, I guess there is not much I can do about that. Again, I for one am enjoying these tears.
Henry Jennings Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.04.15 22:22:00 - [540] Hey CCP, april fools was 2 weeks ago, get lost with this idea. -3 accounts if it goes through as planned.

Miriya Satori Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.15 23:10:00 - [541] CCP at its best again.
Torhal Nuke Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.04.16 00:49:00 - [542] signed
Bomberlocks Star Bombers	Posted - 2010.04.16 01:32:00 - [543] /signed
Hazel Starr Krypteia Brotherhood	Posted - 2010.04.16 02:36:00 - [544] Crass idea...should not be implemented; And I have no hidden deepspace assets, -- Haze
Jarnis McPieksu Insidious Existence En Garde	Posted - 2010.04.16 05:46:00 - [545] Supported.
Rafael Tonka Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.04.16 06:05:00 - [546] Signed. Better to make changes to scanning mechanics which would increase the maximum scan range than to impose this limit on warping. Space is limitless and these safes took time and effort to create. Use some more time and effort CCP and work on an alternative.
Rafael Tonka Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.04.16 06:11:00 - [547] missed the support box in last post! corrected
Strogen Mkok University of Caille	Posted - 2010.04.16 07:04:00 - [548] Supported
Im Blue	Posted - 2010.04.16 07:42:00 - [549] signed, its not broken dont fix it.
Kythren Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.16 10:51:00 - [550] remember remember the 13th of april the hyprid, missiles and tactics, i know of no reason for the deepsafe treason to ever be forgot. ----- <sarcasm="inside"> murmur<->eve authentication script(python) http://mumble.sourceforge.net/Mumble, the

Rico Minali Sons Of 0din Cult of War	Posted - 2010.04.16 11:35:00 - [551] Deep safes dont harm the game and are actually pretty realistic, you just wouldnt park your ship where it can be found... Also, destroying anything outside this limit is ridiculously harsh, just move it. Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.
Vjorn Angannon	Posted - 2010.04.16 14:53:00 - [552] Absolutely, positively, and wholeheartedly signed!!!!! Wanton destruction of property just 'coz it's parked outside of an imaginary wall???? What are you thinking, CCP????? Just in case ya didn't know.....space.....is deep and vast..... shakes head Vj
Mattk50 Executive Intervention Primary.	Posted - 2010.04.16 15:55:00 - [553] CCP's grips is the way deep safes are made is pretty much an exploit. however, what ccp should do is make a valid way to make deep safes... such as... a 1 hour deep safe production cycle on my buzzard... perhaps...
Cobalt Valkyrie	Posted - 2010.04.16 19:06:00 - [554] supports this topic
MonaLisa Overdrive Elflings	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:13:00 - [555] Signed
Valerie Starke	Posted - 2010.04.16 20:38:00 - [556] /signed No vastly sweeping changes of this sort should involve the arbitrary destruction of a player's assets in this manner unless you plan and replacing the exact same items at a later time within the confines of the newly 'acceptable' space. Of course a far simpler solution would be to, upon their next login, force them to warp somewhere within the new confines. This would make them vacate the deep safe without destroying their ship or e-warping them to a known and possibly camped location.
Barashi Nugan Zero Point Group	Posted - 2010.04.16 21:56:00 - [557] Signed.
g0nz028	Posted - 2010.04.16 23:24:00 - [558] deep safes nerf kills sandbox. /signed
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.16 23:57:00 - [559] I am on the edge of CCP now. I like EVE but I really dislike CCP If they totally ignore this massive public outcry and implement their silly needless nerf, it will prove once and for all that they really don't care about the player base. And then I'm quitting for good. Other games may not be as hardcore, but at least most of them don't **** me off every time I read the patch notes.
javer 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.04.17 01:23:00 - [560] Edited by: javer on 17/04/2010 01:23:23 /signed -------------------------------------------- Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their Level and beat you with experience.

Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.17 07:45:00 - [561] Ok, so now they revised the plan you can view in the latest dev blog which you can find here. So, no need to keep replying to this thread and plug up those tear ducts.
NereSky Maelstrom Crew	Posted - 2010.04.17 08:24:00 - [562] Supported
Cerea Gleeve Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2010.04.17 11:19:00 - [563] /signed
Cyc Lilith	Posted - 2010.04.17 13:25:00 - [564] supported
greymouse Black Eclipse Corp	Posted - 2010.04.17 13:40:00 - [565] /me adds support Cry Havoc!! Release the Mice of Menace!!!
STUNTM4N	Posted - 2010.04.17 15:59:00 - [566] /signed
tvol	Posted - 2010.04.17 16:53:00 - [567] Signed.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.17 19:59:00 - [568] Originally by: Marlona Sky Ok, so now they revised the plan you can view in the latest dev blog which you can find here. So, no need to keep replying to this thread and plug up those tear ducts. I read that new blog and it looks better, a compromise. But it is still a bad and more importantly - needless nerf. But it doesn't answer WHY they are doing this whole thing in the first place. Is it really about the scanning issue? If it is, why go with a negative solution of reducing game features and ****ing people off instead of a positive solution to make the scanner better? And why is this kind of "crap" is actually being worked on before many other things, things players actually wait 6+ months for. On whose initiative has this whole bookmark process been started? who is responsible?
Jerid Verges Gallente The Society of Innovation The Last Stand	Posted - 2010.04.17 21:25:00 - [569] Edited by: Jerid Verges on 17/04/2010 21:26:26 Originally by: Ephemeron But it is still a bad and more importantly - needless nerf. It's not a nerf at all. It's a rebalance. The warp logoff bug (Poseidon) will be removed. And all the stuff will be moved not destroyed. And in fact you CAN now (after Tyrannis launches) make bookmarks beyond 20AU and warp to them. However you will have to do it with the legitimate game mechanics placed NOW. This is taking an unfair advantage older players had and bringing them down to newer player's level. This is a good compromise.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.17 22:08:00 - [570] Quote: And in fact you CAN now (after Tyrannis launches) make bookmarks beyond 20AU and warp to them. However you will have to do it with the legitimate game mechanics placed NOW. If that is true then the negative impact of this whole affair will be very small. My primary concern was PvP situations where I warp in large systems and sometimes need to make bms in the middle of warp, which can be 10+ or even 20+ AU from nearest object. There are some systems with 280 AU warps, maybe with 80 AU warps. Even so, I still think this whole bookmark business points out to a flaw in CCP's priority list. There's something not right about this whole thing. I don't remember any major threads from the community calling for action on this issue.

Unit ADA	Posted - 2010.04.18 05:16:00 - [571] Edited by: Unit ADA on 18/04/2010 05:48:34 Edited by: Unit ADA on 18/04/2010 05:48:08 Edited by: Unit ADA on 18/04/2010 05:45:17 I would much prefer they fix the real problems of this game rather than safe spots. like LAG, Rockets, Ridiculous Gallente Storylines, Crap Tier 1 BC's. etc. This is space, space has no boundaries, Isn't this what EVE is all about? Infact I think all should be able to use deep space spots, but make deep space probes more powerful.
carcas5 Sankkasen Mining Conglomerate On the Rocks	Posted - 2010.04.18 11:13:00 - [572] Signed. While the methods that have been used to create these spots are questionable, and should perhaps be addressed, removing whatever is there and "shrinking" space by making it impossible to go beyond a given distance -- when there is no technical requirement given to do so -- is a bit silly. The epic proportions of this game help make it interesting. A better solution would be to improve Deep Space Scanner Probes. Would everyone be able to easily scan out those sitting at deep safes? No. Should it be possible for a dedicated scanner to do so? Absolutely... with some tweaks to the scanning system.
Harald Ronjason	Posted - 2010.04.18 18:15:00 - [573] /signed
hammerhead 59	Posted - 2010.04.18 20:58:00 - [574] signed/
morrow the3rd	Posted - 2010.04.18 22:24:00 - [575] signed/
the plague Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.19 05:37:00 - [576] Edited by: the plague on 19/04/2010 05:40:45 /signed. Space is supposed to be wondrous, mysterious and infinite. But CCP seems hellbent on making space dull, mundane and cramped. Yet another sad milestone on the road to morphing this game into EVE Arena.
Elunavera Caldari Project Stealth Squad Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.19 12:03:00 - [577] /signed
Anna Lifera Imperial Legion of Amarr	Posted - 2010.04.19 17:50:00 - [578] Edited by: Anna Lifera on 19/04/2010 17:52:38 Originally by: the plague Edited by: the plague on 19/04/2010 05:40:45 /signed. Space is supposed to be wondrous, mysterious and infinite. But CCP seems hellbent on making space dull, mundane and cramped. Yet another sad milestone on the road to morphing this game into EVE Arena. arenas, at least in wow, have equal numbers on both sides, so in this case, ccp is just making it more blob-friendly. i sure didn't see that coming... --- It is not fair that a 20 man gang can kill at 200 gang. - Emo TJ
the plague Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.20 04:22:00 - [579] This is the equivalent of those first-person games which have 'magic mist' in the distance which artificially limits how far you can see and makes it so you can't go there.
Marlona Sky D00M. RED.OverLord	Posted - 2010.04.20 07:28:00 - [580] Originally by: the plague This is the equivalent of those first-person games which have 'magic mist' in the distance which artificially limits how far you can see and makes it so you can't go there. You can't be serious right?

Seh Cunderri Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.20 08:19:00 - [581]
Emydia BIG Majesta Empire	Posted - 2010.04.20 15:14:00 - [582] Signed
Stil Harkonnen	Posted - 2010.04.20 18:52:00 - [583] supported
Assaj Ventress	Posted - 2010.04.20 21:21:00 - [584] /signed at least wait until you have removed the fleet fight lag
Doctor Steinsbrow Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.04.20 21:24:00 - [585] Originally by: the plague This is the equivalent of those first-person games which have 'magic mist' in the distance which artificially limits how far you can see and makes it so you can't go there. it's called "Fog of War" idiot, at least get your terms right \|\<o>/\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\| \\|CCP\|/ -\|\|\|\|\|\|\|- -\|\|\|\|\|\|\|- ONE DOES NOT SIMPLY ~~WALK~~ WARP INTO ~~MORDOR~~ J7HZ-F!
Zeek Muaka Antares Shipyards Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.04.21 02:03:00 - [586] 1100100% Agree. ---------------------------------- Originally by: Private Bank wth is tranquility ? that sick place where you lose ships and pay like 30mill for a bc? lol no i play on sisi!
cannonman58102 Opticon Industries Opticon Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.23 13:27:00 - [587] This is utterly redic. Agreed 100% Dont try to get rid of the sandbox CCP, its what has made us love the game.
Jobby Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.04.23 15:30:00 - [588] On the assumption that deep safes are the great, how is anyone that doesn't have access to the same mechanic that made them supposed to get access to their greatness?
Aethean	Posted - 2010.04.23 21:29:00 - [589] Signed.
Ephemeron Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates	Posted - 2010.04.23 21:53:00 - [590] Originally by: Jobby On the assumption that deep safes are the great, how is anyone that doesn't have access to the same mechanic that made them supposed to get access to their greatness? You can get them from other players you know. They can be copied and traded. A lot of things in EVE you get from other players

ShahFluffers Gallente Ice Fire Warriors	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:07:00 - [591] Are people are aware that by limiting the size of systems to something more reasonable then server lag might actually be reduced? Think about it: even though bookmarks are kept on the client side, the server still needs to account for all that space between that safespot and the nearest celestial. _______________________ "Just because I look like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown
Grarr Dexx Amarr GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:09:00 - [592] Originally by: ShahFluffers Are people are aware that by limiting the size of systems to something more reasonable then server lag might actually be reduced? Think about it: even though bookmarks are kept on the client side, the server still needs to account for all that space between that safespot and the nearest celestial. They don't. Grids are generated when somebody enters them, it doesn't generate space for space inbetween grids. ___
CommanderData211	Posted - 2010.04.23 22:28:00 - [593] Everyone keeps saying how impossible it is to find people in deep safes, but a member of my corp found a group of pilots out at 650 AU with the current scanning mechanics. It takes a while, and it's not very fun, but it can be done. Now take that kind of know-how, and couple it with modified scanning mechanics and you have viable deep-safes. I agree that, in a sense, the methods of producing these deep-safe's is questionable and teeters on the edge of exploit. But here's the thing, everyone could exploit this gameplay mechanic. People playing this game FOUND something and shared it pretty quickly. This is not something as nefarious as the T2 scandal. This was something useful to everyone, and more importantly it felt like it was ours. The joy that I experienced when making my first (and only) deep-safe was intense. Please CCP, don't take away the players ability to make this game their own. This was one of those very few things in EVE that made you feel like the universe was limitless. Additionally, (and arguably the MOST important) the creation of deep safe's provided a workaround for system crushing lag. Deep safe's also facilitated Supercapitals to be exited safely. One of these is good, and one of these is bad. But which is worse? As I mentioned earlier, wouldn't it make more sense to allow dee-safes to exist and modify scanning, then ban them altogether? I am not going to flame CCP for not fixing lag immediately. EVE players will not stop bringing numbers into a fight, and CCP have about a billion variables to sift through to figure out what is causing the most lag and address it. HOWEVER, we the EVE community found a way to mitigate the disastrous lag. Please don't take this away from us. If anything, make dee-safes easier to make, and easier to find.
sting122 The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.04.24 14:12:00 - [594] signed. personally i dont care about the deep safe thing but the destruction of property of someone who may have been away from the game for more than a few months is just too much.
Gunnanmon Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.04.26 16:59:00 - [595] Originally by: sting122 signed. personally i dont care about the deep safe thing but the destruction of property of someone who may have been away from the game for more than a few months is just too much. Stuff's getting destroyed? Since when? Signature locked for discussing moderation. Navigator
Htrag The Carebear Stare Hydroponic Zone	Posted - 2010.04.26 17:17:00 - [596] Borders In Space is definitely not the direction I hoped to see Eve going.
Jovan Stahl	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:25:00 - [597] Signed.
Bfoster Instant Annihilation Everto Rex Regis	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:34:00 - [598] Originally by: Htrag Borders In Space is definitely not the direction I hoped to see Eve going. THIS!!! But hey, we just PAY to play this game, our opinions do not matter! Supported! ------------
Ildryn The Inf1dels En Garde	Posted - 2010.05.17 18:49:00 - [599] I disagree with the destruction of players property. However the players that left the crap out there should move it while they can. Im going to sign this in hopes that all stuff is just moved instead of destroyed.
Viginti The Bastards	Posted - 2010.05.18 23:37:00 - [600] Originally by: Htrag Borders In Space is definitely not the direction I hoped to see Eve going. +1

Sabrina Al'Kian	Posted - 2010.05.19 00:08:00 - [601] Sure, I'll sign it. I agree that there should be a limit, because probes simply can't reach that far. But make the limit more like 45 AUs from the nearest body. That way, deep safes will still protect you from anyone using the scanner and from people not specifically checking for deep safes, but will be vulnerable to properly applied scan probes.
Lusty Wench	Posted - 2010.06.17 12:24:00 - [602] Supported Bring back Deep Safes
BFish Bushwhackers Rough Necks	Posted - 2010.06.17 13:21:00 - [603] Although it's kind of long gone now, CCP have probably thrown all your hard earned deep safes in the bin, it's still nice to tell them they made a mistake. Supported. ----------------- -----------------
Crazy KSK	Posted - 2010.06.17 14:39:00 - [604] Edited by: Crazy KSK on 17/06/2010 14:39:34 !


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