I mined for profit. There was very little challenge in mining, even your hypothetical sleeping turtle could do it. But all the people with less intellect than a sleeping turtle complained so long and loud that they got what they wished for, so now mining will have a barrier of entry so low that even a dead turtle could do it.

When I speak of challenge, you might want to substitute barrier to entry.

Are you suggesting you can't read starter *profession* and you want to read starter *ship*?

It's 20.3% off a T1 ship vs a T2 ship, which is a far, far call from Mara Rinn's "1/2" of peer tier ship.
But most "sane" Hulk setups don't have 2 MLUs so the difference is far less.

No longer do people even have to use their brain to come up with ways of not getting blown up when mining.

Yes, and your point is GǪ ?

The barrier for entry into mining was very low, and it is becoming lower with this barge buff. No longer do people even have to use their brain to come up with ways of not getting blown up when mining. Just fly that brand new hull with nothing more than an ice harvester ii fitted, and no-one in their right mind will interfere with you. Then you make some ISK to cover the cost of the ship and you end up fitting an ice harvester upgrade.

No thinking required. No barrier to entry. Mining is the window-licking profession.

The real tragedy here is that instead of CCP reimagining Mining as a Profession, they have instead given the tools to miners to make it much easier to mine for longer periods without any needed input or concentration.

Further relegating mining as the profession of botters and alt accounts

depends how we're defining sane. for solo mining, sure. however if you're solo mining you can't tank a covetor so you're a guarenteed free kill.

in a fleet though, why wouldn't you fit 2x mlus?

Are you suggesting that recommending mining as a starter profession involves getting people into Hulks ASAP?

As a starter profession, my usual recommendation is to get into a Scythe or Osprey. Training Minmatar or Caldari Cruiser 5 opens up a wonderful world of combat ships that are fun to fly and actually useful in battle. Even for people planning to do only mining, my recommendation is to get into an Osprey rather than a retriever (though this advice will be changing drastically come August 8).

The Hulk is the ultimate mining ship: it is the end-game ship, not the starter ship. Flying it properly requires many skills trained to 5. Just because someone can get into one in 55 days of focussed training doesn't mean they can use it properly.

While entertaining, I could care less about hi-sec. I go to hi-sec every six months to pick up skill books and then I'm gone. If you really want to kill miners, do it in 0.0......the fittings are much more expensive down there. Not to mention the abundance of Orcas and Rorquals. And you might get to tangle REAL ships that fight back for a change.

blah blah blah come to nulsec

Anyone else tired of hearing that stupid argument?

Well played, CCP.
Your DEVs/balancing team apparently have the reasoning ability of small children so I'll put this in terms they will understand.

**********
"Once upon a time there were three little miners. They ventured into the big wide world to earn their fortunes.

The First Little Miner went to Jita and fit his Hulk with Cargo Expanders.
This way, he could AFK mine with a minimum of effort and fuss. It left the miner plenty of freetime to daydream, jerk off, and watch Japanese Anime while earning ISK.

....Then along came the Big Bad Ganker in a Catalyst, saying "Little miner, little miner, I'm going to ******* do you in."
The first miner, predictably, was tabbed out and said nothing.
So the Ganker loaded and overheated and blew the Hulk in, and splattered the pod, too.

The Second Little Miner went to Jita, bought MLU's and a hauler.
This way, he could mine faster than anyone else - and become quite wealthy in no time. It was a bit more work, of course, but he kept himself entertained chatting in local with his neighbors.

...Then along came the Big Bad Ganker, in a Tornado, saying "Little miner, little miner, I'm going to ******* do you in."
The second miner, said "Not by the hair of my chinny, chin chin," aligns, and turned on his Small Booster II.
So the Ganker loaded and overheated and blew the Hulk in. The frightened miner flees in his pod, broke, but alive.

The Third Little Miner went to Jita and fit his Hulk with a DCII, MSE, Invulnerability Fields, and Shield Extender Rigs. Wisely, he sets his Hulk to orbit a nearby asteroid, and always kept an wary eye on his surroundings.

...Then along came the Big Bad Ganker, in a T2 Talos, saying "Little miner, little miner, I'm going to ******* do you in."
The Third miner chuckles to himself, overheats his Invulnerability Fields and aligns to the nearest station.
So the Ganker loaded, and overheated, and simply CANNOT blow the Hulk in.

Defeated, the ganker slinks off in his pod, and the smart little Miner scoops the Talos wreckage and sells it for a tidy profit."

THE END
**********

Cargo Hulk, Yield Hulk, Tank Hulk, those were the choices - all with drawbacks.

Cargo - for a Hybrid Exhumer/Hauler, with a risky AFK 'cruise control' option.
Yield - to maximize returns with friends providing transport.
Tank - 30-40K EHP to discourage/thwart gankers.
(and really, one could still put up a reasonable tank on either Cargo or Yield fit Hulks, if they used the mid-slots....)

But choices are dangerous things. Given the choice, miners will take cargo/yield every time - and then throw a tantrum when they are ganked. The rare, clever miner who tanked his Hulk; well, he weathered the storm - and reaped the benefits as mineral prices rose.

But throw that out the window, just give the whining miners all three. Notice how CCP put quite a bit of care into saving miners from their own bad choices.

This is more than a buff - this is CCP acknowledging that miners, as a group, are too stupid to make the correct fitting choices.

Step 1: Idiot miners don't even use the slots they have - so slap stupid amounts of EHP directly to the hull, rather than give them additional slots/PG or CPU. Frigate-size Skiff, Orca EHP. Really?

Step 2: Idiot miners keep sacking their EHP with Cargo Expanders - so make Cargo Expanders pointless with the Ore Bay.
(And I doubt the DEVs will get around to fixing the 'special cargo bays don't drop loot' bug, either - simply because fixing THAT bug would benefit the wrong kinds of players, I suppose.....)

So, good game, CCP.
Good to know we are still steaming, full speed ahead! - towards Hello-Kitty highsec, a paradise for bots and stupidass gameplay. Hard to hear myself say it, but I'm now officially nostalgic for the days of Incarna and WiS development. At least back then, the DEVs were merely wasting their own time.

Ah finally a dev, with the carebear at heart. Can you put that on the soundwave soundboard, so I can listen to that, while going to bed. Yeah out of context as well. Like how predictable money making from suicide ganks is the same thing as hunting a place and studying the prey for a random occurence to make billions. Totally the same. Out of context, its so fun

Currently, on SISI, a completely untanked hulk has 12k EHP. Considering the vast majority will more then likely still fit max yield/no tank, I would say they will still be gankable. I'm not a professional ganker though, so I don't know.

Edit - Sorry, I had low-grade slaves plugged in when I got that number, so it would actually less EHP.

I didnt think the changes had made their way to SiSI yet

Check to see if the other exhumers have bonuses for Ice and Mercoxit, etc

I didnt think the changes had made their way to SiSI yet

Check to see if the other exhumers have bonuses for Ice and Mercoxit, etc

I didnt think the changes had made their way to SiSI yet

Check to see if the other exhumers have bonuses for Ice and Mercoxit, etc

Being new to the game I can stand on the outside and look in, and see this thread for what it truly is. I have not started mining yet so I am impartial. The DEV said suicide ganking wasnGÇÖt designed as a way to make profit. Seems straight forward to me, doesnGÇÖt take a four year degree to decipher.

Wait, the dev blog about this has been up for weeks...

Why has the complaining only started now ?

Wait, the dev blog about this has been up for weeks...

Why has the complaining only started now ?

YAWNS politely.