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Grey Stormshadow Starwreck Industries	Posted - 2011.03.11 16:28:00 - [661] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Fulbert Specified in the new EN24 article. Unconfirmed, of course (like everything painful in that game). They are being banned every day. So it is easy to say RMT customers are being banned. It is not exactly a lie, it is unconfirmed and just a lot of BS. It does not mean that everyone on the list is getting banned or that EveNews24 now gets lists from CCP for who is being banned. Some player's subscription may run out and whose name is on this list, but EveNews24 will sell it to you as a ban, because this is what you want to believe the most. It is all part of EveNews24's press machine in order to ride the attention wave they are receiving until it gets boring or some new sensation can be found and exploited. They do not mean to fight RMTs, they use them to make press. The more the better for them. How much the RMT wing is paying to you from this propaganda? ------------------------------------------------- Play with the best - die like the rest starwreck.com - support the cause :)
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.11 16:35:00 - [662] Originally by: Grey Stormshadow How much the RMT wing is paying to you from this propaganda? You mean if I am getting paid by RMTs for making propaganda? I am not making propaganda for RMTs. I am telling apart the truth from the nonsense printed on a parasitic website. --
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 16:48:00 - [663] Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 11/03/2011 16:48:16 Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems. But on the page with the iskbank story.. Almost makes me wonder if they are going all out on this story to quell any competition for selling isk. And yes selling gtc is the same as selling isk. You just have to go through a few more steps to convert it is all. So how about publishing your gtc purchaser list then evenews24 so we can see how much rl money players are spending on gtc to convert to isk. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.11 16:53:00 - [664] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Edited by: Zhim''Fufu on 11/03/2011 16:48:16 Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems. But on the page with the iskbank story.. Almost makes me wonder if they are going all out on this story to quell any competition for selling isk. And yes selling gtc is the same as selling isk. You just have to go through a few more steps to convert it is all. So how about publishing your gtc purchaser list then evenews24 so we can see how much rl money players are spending on gtc to convert to isk. +10 to you sir. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:00:00 - [665] Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 16:59:49 Someone sent me a mail in-game. It was rather unfriendly and so it went straight into a petition. Seems people are getting angry for not getting their lynch mob. --
Angst IronShard Minmatar Sense of Serendipity Echoes of Nowhere	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:02:00 - [666] Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game. . ____________________________________________ Freedom is nothing but a chance to be better.
Nina Mercedez	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:16:00 - [667] Originally by: Whitehound Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 16:59:49 Someone sent me a mail in-game. It was rather unfriendly and so it went straight into a petition. lol
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:20:00 - [668] Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game. Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk? Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:25:00 - [669] Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol I do not accept crap. If you got to say something then say it, use the forum. If you think you can hide behind an alt and send me mail with stuff in it you know you are not allowed to post on the forum then know that it goes straight to CCP. --
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:28:00 - [670] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game. Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk? There is, on the RMT side of things, many of those companies will readily sell your credit card number or use it themselves for nefarious purposes. On the legit side of things, it enables players to avoid paying the subscription fees if they have the ability to generate large amounts of isk on their own. While some people that fund their playtime with isk use bots, a lot of them don't. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Aeronwen Carys	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:31:00 - [671] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol I do not accept crap. If you got to say something then say it, use the forum. If you think you can hide behind an alt and send me mail with stuff in it you know you are not allowed to post on the forum then know that it goes straight to CCP. lol
Xavier Isaacson Minmatar Surface Detail	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:34:00 - [672] Originally by: Whitehound Originally by: Nina Mercedez lol I do not accept crap. If you got to say something then say it, use the forum. If you think you can hide behind an alt and send me mail with stuff in it you know you are not allowed to post on the forum then know that it goes straight to CCP. lol Originally by: Verone BBC Trust are a sack of arses.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:35:00 - [673] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game. Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk? There is, on the RMT side of things, many of those companies will readily sell your credit card number or use it themselves for nefarious purposes. On the legit side of things, it enables players to avoid paying the subscription fees if they have the ability to generate large amounts of isk on their own. While some people that fund their playtime with isk use bots, a lot of them don't. Oh I totally realise that. I'm just amused at the outrage when this is legally done on a daily basis with plex is all. I mean I didn't realise so many people cared so deeply about ccp's profitability that they would get all upset when some outside company gets the money for the isk instead of ccp. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:35:00 - [674] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems. I have been thinking the same thing, sure players buying isk is part of the problem, but the people supplying the isk and the people running the RMT sites is a much bigger problem. Some of the people that have been buying crazy amounts of isk do deserve to get banned, but the rest that bought minor amounts of isk seem to get alot of focus compaired to the tiny part of the problem they really are. Riverini have made posts saying he is thinking about writing "how-to bot" stories on evenews24, if CCP does not disclose information on their fight against RMT and bots. While his intentions may be good, trying to force CCP to disclose information may just end up being better for the RMT industry then the eve community. Evenews24 seem to believe that they have given CCP the magic weapons against RMT, when it at best is nothing more then a list of players CCP can give bans or warnings as they see fit. No matter if CCP bans everyone on that list, the bots are still running and once all quiet againg it's just back to business for the people selling isk. The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. It would be funny if Riverini have been so eager to expose the list, it's likely he did'nt want to pass up the opportunity for evenews24 to get it's 5 seconds of fame, that all it results in a couple of bans and alot of warnings, while most of the people supplying and running iskbank just starts a new site and continue their business.
riverini Gallente Reliables Inc Majesta Empire	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:47:00 - [675] Edited by: riverini on 11/03/2011 17:49:28 Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Hrmmm, this is interesting. So far the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. Evenews24 is doing all it can to flame that rage it seems. But on the page with the iskbank story.. Almost makes me wonder if they are going all out on this story to quell any competition for selling isk. And yes selling gtc is the same as selling isk. You just have to go through a few more steps to convert it is all. So how about publishing your gtc purchaser list then evenews24 so we can see how much rl money players are spending on gtc to convert to isk. +10 to you sir! That banner is up for sale for 2.5 bil per month, so far the referral thingy isn't nearly as good as the pamphlet said. , Luckly I got a pretty decent RL job and can afford the hosting costs comfortably or you thought what ever is gotten from GTC is for personal use? remember this site has 2 partners ^__^ Also u conveniently left out the fact that we don't personally sell GTCs (there is an hilarious post in kugu foreplay about that), still I loved ur conjectures.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:54:00 - [676] Originally by: dexington The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. It would be funny if Riverini have been so eager to expose the list, it's likely he did'nt want to pass up the opportunity for evenews24 to get it's 5 seconds of fame, that all it results in a couple of bans and alot of warnings, while most of the people supplying and running iskbank just starts a new site and continue their business. Yup. Which is why direct legal action against rmt operations are futile at best and always a total waste of money. As soon as the isk seller site gets a wiff of impending legal action they just close the corp and make a new one under a new name and move to a new low rent hole in the wall and setup shop. Sure ccp could maybe eventually track them down and get them into court but I shudder to think of the legal expences involved especially as its a multinational operation. Meanwhile the hundred other sites are merrily selling isk left and right. No, the best way is to find the buyers and nuke their wallet(no bans needed as a nuked wallet is bad enough) then track the sales and nullify the isk in the offending sellers accounts and give them the permaban. Which is what this list could have done if evenews had simply worked with ccp instead of going for the ratings. But now the prey is aware and taking measures to keep ccp from catching them so gg evenews24. Stick to publishing botting name lists and you will do well but leave the heavy thinking stuff to the people who have the actual ability to use the information as you are not helping at all with this particular story. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.11 17:58:00 - [677] Edited by: Barakkus on 11/03/2011 18:00:11 Originally by: dexington The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. Doesn't matter if people running bots or doing RMT move their assets around. Even though "the logs show nothing", all that stuff would be a futile attempt since they can, and will, track down everything a suspect account has done, regardless if they open 1 new account to shift stuff to or 10. There is a little trail that can be followed regardless of what the player does. Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Yup. Which is why direct legal action against rmt operations are futile at best and always a total waste of money. Speaking of which, does anyone know the results of Blizzard suing a few RMT companies a couple years ago? - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:00:00 - [678] Originally by: riverini +10 to you sir! That banner is up for sale for 2.5 bil per month, so far the referral thingy isn't nearly as good as the pamphlet said. , Luckly I got a pretty decent RL job and can afford the hosting costs comfortably or you thought what ever is gotten from GTC is for personal use? remember this site has 2 partners ^__^ Also u conveniently left out the fact that we don't personally sell GTCs (there is an hilarious post in kugu foreplay about that), still I loved ur conjectures. I have no idea how profitable your gtc sales are and would not believe your claims if you said you were getting rich or losing your arse on the deal as I trust you about as much as any other random eve player with an agenda. I was just amused by it being on the same page as the story. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:00:00 - [679] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu the rage seems to be directed at people who spend large amounts of cash to get isk so they can simply log in and do as they wish which infuriates the 'legit' players who have to grind for their isk and feel like they can't compete against the people who buy isk. +10 for you as you make a very strong point. My only counter is, and I'll admit up front, that it is pretty weak... The PLEX mechanism applies market forces, putting caps on each side. With PLEX, there has to be a PLEX buyer (someone wanting to play for free) for the legal PLEX seller (someone looking to get ISK in exchange for real). If lots of people want to throw lots of real at the game, then the price of PLEX will fall until they are so cheap that people stop throwing real at the game or more people are willing to play for free by grindng ISK to buy all those PLEX. 1 person playing free for every subscription worth of RMT converted to ISK. With out-of-game RMT for ISK, there is no balancing force. The botters can grind 40 bots at a billion ISK per bot per day, then sell a trillion ISK a month to thousands of players. 40 to 1000s vs. 1 to 1. And, even if this is just to "crush the competition", the so what? Who should get the RMT? EVE who spends millions of dollars developing and operating the game, through a mechanism that lets people play for free? Or some fly-by-night hacker in Moldova with little cost other than electricity and internet to operate their illegal bots?
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:03:00 - [680] Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: dexington The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. Doesn't matter if people running bots or doing RMT move their assets around. Even though "the logs show nothing", all that stuff would be a futile attempt since they can, and will, track down everything a suspect account has done, regardless if they open 1 new account to shift stuff to or 10. There is a little trail that can be followed regardless of what the player does. Yes but ccp can't do a thing past banning the accounts if the isk sellers were warned the hammer is about to drop and ran a fire sale at deeply discounted prices to sell off the remaining isk before ccp could fully investigate. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:04:00 - [681] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game. Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk? One funded the company that develops and operates the game via a mechanism that lets thousands of people play for free(on someone elses dime), and the other funded a criminal enterprise and encourages the development of other distasteful things like botters.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:09:00 - [682] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu I mean I didn't realise so many people cared so deeply about ccp's profitability that they would get all upset when some outside company gets the money for the isk instead of ccp. CCP's profitability is what pays for new feature development, for more powerful servers, for more bandwidth, for everything. EVE's profitability is what pays for the tiger team that is working on reducing lag. It pays for simple things like a meta level column in items list, and bigger things like the rework of moms into supercaps. Every EVE player should put CCP's profitability at the top of their priorities.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:14:00 - [683] Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Barakkus Originally by: dexington The fact the evenews24 released the list the way they did, probably only made it easier for the botters to start moving their assets, maybe even before CCP had time to decide how they where going to handle the situation. Doesn't matter if people running bots or doing RMT move their assets around. Even though "the logs show nothing", all that stuff would be a futile attempt since they can, and will, track down everything a suspect account has done, regardless if they open 1 new account to shift stuff to or 10. There is a little trail that can be followed regardless of what the player does. Yes but ccp can't do a thing past banning the accounts if the isk sellers were warned the hammer is about to drop and ran a fire sale at deeply discounted prices to sell off the remaining isk before ccp could fully investigate. They may be able to do something, but it would be difficult depending on the country of origin. http://www.trademarkandcopyrightlawblog.com/uploads/file/Bizzard%20Order_on_Trial.pdf - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 18:15:00 - [684] Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: Zhim'Fufu Originally by: Angst IronShard Iskies buyers and sellers should be banned out the game. Include plex sellers and buyers too. I mean is there any real practical difference between the supercap blob that hotdropped you which was funded with illegaly bought isk vs legally bought isk? One funded the company that develops and operates the game via a mechanism that lets thousands of people play for free(on someone elses dime), and the other funded a criminal enterprise and encourages the development of other distasteful things like botters. I am aware of that. I personally don't have any issues with plex for isk sales as it does open the game up in a positive way for more players especialy time constrained ones who have the sp and personal skill to contribute to a corp but little time to grind for isk to get the stuff he needs to contribute. But thats not what the rage is about on this subject. It's about 'zomg someone spent 7k usd on isk and now my game is ruined because I feel I can't compete'. Utter horseshiat of course but internats spaceships is serious buisiness after all. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:02:00 - [685] Originally by: Barakkus They may be able to do something, but it would be difficult depending on the country of origin. http://www.trademarkandcopyrightlawblog.com/uploads/file/Bizzard%20Order_on_Trial.pdf Blizzard is so rich they could sue the pope because they claim he looks like some random npc just for the publicity and lulz. CCP is not nearly that rich. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:28:00 - [686] Edited by: Whitehound on 11/03/2011 19:36:27 Originally by: LHA Tarawa One funded the company that develops and operates the game via a mechanism that lets thousands of people play for free(on someone elses dime), and the other funded a criminal enterprise and encourages the development of other distasteful things like botters. I think he is talking about the moral implications of buying game money with real money, and maybe for using real money in general for buying something other then a game subscription. I am not a fan of it and CCP introduced it only to offer players an alternative to ISK sellers. So, basically, was the moral aspect sanctioned by CCP and everyone now needs to decide on their own if they want to pay more for their game than just the monthly subscriptions. Poor players getting hot dropped by rich players (poor and rich in RL) has become part of the game play, but may have always been around one way or the other (with players running multiple accounts for example). So now that we have resellers, and that the moral question of buying ISKs with real money is up to everyone, am I suprised that now thousands of players shall be banned for buying it from the wrong resellers. I can understand it if it was meant against everyone buying ISKs in general (still would I not support a massive ban of players), but is the goal not to get rid of the bots? Banning thousands of players to get rid of bots seems to me as likely the dumbest possible approach to solving the problem. Only closing EVE and throwing everyone out would be dumber. --
Mister Grumpy	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:35:00 - [687] Anyone who breaks the EULA is a cheater. Buying a PLEX is allowed. RMT is not allowed. If you RMT you are a cheater. Running a bot to make isk is not allowed. If you run a bot you are a cheater. I want all cheaters out of the game ASAP. I think most legitimate players do. If I pay for a game, the ground rules should be fair. We don't have to treat each other fairly in the game, but we should be on a level playing field. Is this plain enough for everyone to understand?
Zhim'Fufu	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:40:00 - [688] Originally by: Mister Grumpy Buying a PLEX is allowed. RMT is not allowed. If you RMT you are a cheater. In what way? As far as 'fair' gameplay is concerned there is no difference between legally and illegally purchased isk. The only fault is that you bought it illegally which is a problem for ccp and not the average player. Originally by: Response to bitter carebear tears in local [19:44:46] CCP Incognito > sorry i can't talk about game mechanics. you need to use your brains and figure it out.
Mister Grumpy	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:42:00 - [689] learn to read
dexington Caldari Baconoration	Posted - 2011.03.11 19:42:00 - [690] Originally by: Mister Grumpy Is this plain enough for everyone to understand? yes, but it's unclear if your oppinoion really matters...

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