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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 31 post(s) |
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CCP Fallout
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Posted - 2011.05.10 17:52:00 -
[1]
Changes are afoot for 0.0, and CCP Soundwave's newest dev blog has all the details. Read it here.
Fallout Associate Community Manager CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us |
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Antal Marius
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:02:00 -
[2]
This is gonna change the face of null-sec alot =/ Only being allowed one JB per system, rather then the current two is going to be hard on the smaller alliances, but the increased fuel capacity will be nice.
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LOL CYBERKNIGHTS
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:02:00 -
[3]
Quote: and developing guidelines for what 0.0 ôshouldö be. Luckily, the CSM will be joining us this month so the players are adequately represented.
I think you should consider who is actually on the CSM and what alliances they are a part of tbfh.
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Kozmic
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:02:00 -
[4]
Sounds like fun.
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krickettt
Golden Orb Technology inc EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:05:00 -
[5]
\o/ Change the face of nullsec! Change it all!!!
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Djakku
No Added Sugar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:05:00 -
[6]
Put more money into low-sec to make piracy actually a worthwhile career? This is not a signature. |
Night Epoch
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:06:00 -
[7]
One JB per system? I expect a threadnaught.
Regardless, a nerf was needed. Overpowered force projection over vast JB networks is a real problem.
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Lucas Tigh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:06:00 -
[8]
This is awful.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:08:00 -
[9]
once again you show you know **** all about your game and customers
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MrCaptAwsm
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:08:00 -
[10]
This is a terrible idea. This is literally awful.
This doesn't help anything, and just makes 0.0 even more of a PITA.
Screw you guys.
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Lucas Tigh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:08:00 -
[11]
How about, in addition to these changes:
Make jump bridges discoverable system-wide as the now ubiquitous space widget or as a category in the right click menu in space (or both!!) to all alliance members (or even blues, too).
Provide an option to allow all alliance members (or even blues) to go through jump bridges without the force field password.
Make them actually work like they should and this wouldn't be such a hamfisted patch.
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Delagos Almondis
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:08:00 -
[12]
I like it. A lot. Also: In b4 flamewar.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:09:00 -
[13]
So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
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Lenid Kalkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:09:00 -
[14]
Will this apply to Titan jump bridges as well as anchored Jump portal modules?
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Wibla
Minmatar Alcatraz Inc. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:09:00 -
[15]
This JB nerf is impressively stupid.
CCP, do you even play your own game?
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Chia Mulholland
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:10:00 -
[16]
Finally a nerf to subcaps. God knows they were getting way too powerful compared to caps and supercaps.
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Starkiller Adams
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:10:00 -
[17]
for the love of god leave 0.0 alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LEAVE SOMETHING CONSTANT U WILL NEVER SEE WHAT WORK IF UR ALWAYS ****ING CHANGING ****!!!!
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Quinn Auer
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:11:00 -
[18]
So instead of an unbelievably stupid plan we've got a believably stupid plan?
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Venetian Tar
United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:11:00 -
[19]
Heh, thanks for making the game even more boring in terms of travelling. Idiots. |
Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Night Epoch One JB per system? I expect a threadnaught.
Regardless, a nerf was needed. Overpowered force projection over vast JB networks is a real problem.
Spoken like someone who's never had to plan, organize, and maintain a single jump bridge link. The logistical requirements are enormous. Additionally, you need to hold sov for nearly a month uninterrupted in order to deploy one; if you let a hostile force hold systems on your doorstep for that long you deserve to have a hostile highway speed along the demolition crews to take out your empire.
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Andartha
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:11:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Night Epoch One JB per system? I expect a threadnaught.
This.
Originally by: Lucas Tigh This is awful.
This, too. |
Aryndel Vyst
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[22]
Would you mongoloids at CCP leave 0.0 alone? Jesus ****ing christ.
SIGMA SQUAD BEST SQUAD
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SokoleOko
Minmatar D00M.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[23]
Quote: Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
No. C'mon, everything goes through Jita!
Quote: Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Not really.
Quote: Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Is this a joke? Hell, NO!
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Takashi Halamoto
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[24]
so basically the big alliances will just run permanent gate camps on strategic jump gates, or enemies will run permanent gate camps on the strategic gate camps,
oh well the NC has learned to live with G9d guess its just going to be that but everywhere
oh and to answer empire vs 0.0 no really there isnta balance i could make twice the isk living in empire i just dont wanna Me? im just sitting here,
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Jack bubu
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[25]
Good change :)
Removing 0.0 safety is allways good.
expect alot of DC/NC tears heh
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[26]
Quit messing with 0.0, everything that's been done to it since the incursion patches started has been terrible. If your goal is to get everyone but the Russian rmt'ers to leave then keep it up. Otherwise stick to screwing up hisec and leave 0.0 alone.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[27]
From my april fools post to my corp:
Quote: Jump Bridges
Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well. Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or û by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor û at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges. To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second ôcharge upö timer added before your ship is being sent through.
--
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Kronossan
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[28]
ffs, don't touch the jumpbridges :/ _________________
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Lykouleon
Bad Kitty Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:12:00 -
[29]
Nice changes so far.
Quote: to avoid suicide among players who do logistics.
OUR LOGISTICS BACKBONE!!!!~ I am a fig-newton of your imagination. |
Valfreyea
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:13:00 -
[30]
To prevent logistics teams from killing themselves? They're going to kill themselves when they find out that they'll have to remap the JBs again.
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David Carel
Caldari Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:13:00 -
[31]
Titan bridges hurray
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ShadowandLight
Amarr Cryptonym Sleepers Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:13:00 -
[32]
are you seriously brain damaged CCP?
I never chime in on alot of these changes you keep coming up with throughout the years, but this is freaking ******ed.
0.0 space is the "end game" of EVE. The last thing needed is more work to live in 0.0 as it is.
------- "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
Eve Online |
Aveng3X
Caldari Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:13:00 -
[33]
Once again CCP is making another god awful change, to remove another reason to be proud of owning your own space.
I thought Dominion was bad enough, turns out I was wrong. If you want to nerf anything, nerf Technetium and supercaps. That will balance the game. __________________________
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Vuk Lau
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:14:00 -
[34]
This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
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Lucas Tigh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:14:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Fuujin
Originally by: Night Epoch One JB per system? I expect a threadnaught.
Regardless, a nerf was needed. Overpowered force projection over vast JB networks is a real problem.
Spoken like someone who's never had to plan, organize, and maintain a single jump bridge link. The logistical requirements are enormous. Additionally, you need to hold sov for nearly a month uninterrupted in order to deploy one; if you let a hostile force hold systems on your doorstep for that long you deserve to have a hostile highway speed along the demolition crews to take out your empire.
bro where's my titan
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Xeross155
Minmatar NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:15:00 -
[36]
The previous CSM wanted to remove them completely, luckily people have responded to this with discontent, but unfortunately a seed was planted, and this is the result. --------------------------------------------- Xeross' ventures into EVE |
Murixo
M. Corp M. PIRE
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:15:00 -
[37]
What a complete load of human fecal matter. Enjoy the CSM meeting CCP, you're going to get torn apart.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:15:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 10/05/2011 18:16:20
Quote: Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Probably yes. But that has more to do with your goals than the sov system being anything besides absolutely horrible. It is a small miracle the servers didnt explode yet to protest against such horrible use of their resources.
Quote: Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
Not that this post will be heard, but you are again looking completely wrong at it. Yes there are plenty of incentives for conflict/pvp, and anything you do to increase that will increase the size of the powerblocks (lets say you can easily raid some kind of passive income source, best way to defend against such easy raids would be napping everyone in the neighbourhood, since they also dont want you raiding their income).
The issue is NOT incentives for conflict, the issue is the absolute requirement to have the biggest blob in this sov system.
Also lol@nerfing force projection, do you ever realise you introduced those special ships that only ever would be 1 or 2 of in game? Yes titans I am talking about...
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Pau Tia
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:15:00 -
[39]
Once AGAIN CCP FU*KS members of 0.0 while doing nothing about the RMT Traders in the Drone Regions!!!!
Sounds like CCP is in the pocket of the RMT guys.
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Croier
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:16:00 -
[40]
Quote: We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today. This particular area of space should offer a lot more opportunities than it does today
un-nerf ratting perhaps?
Where do you guys get these ideas?
Maybe it's time for you people to start playing your own game?
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Gerard Gendri
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:16:00 -
[41]
Make it even harder for subcaps to catch and tie down supercarrier blobs?
GREAT IDEA!
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Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:16:00 -
[42]
Limiting the jump bridges to 1 per system MIGHT be palatable if you also increase their range to 7.5-10 LY.
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Prof Fail
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:16:00 -
[43]
"adapt your jump bridge network"
CCP...how can you build a jb network with just 1 jb per system?
Thats really the dumbest idea I ever heard. It will be heaven for cloaking gatecampers and 0.0 Traffic will be impossible.
If youre concerned about too save 0.0 trafffic you should probably remove the untouchable interdiction nullified T3s.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:16:00 -
[44]
Originally by: ShadowandLight 0.0 space is the "end game" of EVE.
No. It isn't. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Tyrael Primus
Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:16:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
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DTson Gauur
Caldari Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:17:00 -
[46]
Suddenly I'm very glad I quit the insanity lagfests known as nullsec. Very happy in empire :)
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Sharon Tate
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:17:00 -
[47]
The only thing this ensures is mass rage quits from those alliance folks who do logistics.
Good job CCP, once again, you are terrible and don't understand this game.
Go f*** yourselves. -------------------------------------------- Minister of Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Spam, Eggs, Bacon and Spam |
Julia Fistage
Caldari Fistage Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:18:00 -
[48]
Mmmmmm... NC tears... please continue to share them with us
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Phain Death
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:18:00 -
[49]
I, for one, welcome our new sovless titan-bridging overlords.
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Tomcat
Gallente Bad Kitty Inc. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:19:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
The man speaks truth.
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Lennie Clarke
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:19:00 -
[51]
"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month." -------------------------------------------
How is this not dramatic? It very dramatically affects positioning of strategic resources in sovereign nullsec, as well as further reducing the usefulness of cynojammers for protecting said resources.
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Ceratin
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:19:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Ceratin on 10/05/2011 18:19:37 Are u ****ing kidding? 1 bridge per system, this is ******ed on a grand scale
you are doing it wrong |
Hanro Gaishou
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:20:00 -
[53]
Big fleets won't care about this. Engage on a gate or engage on a Jump Bridge POS, who cares?
Solo/Small Gangs are the ones who get screwed by this change whether they are PvP or PvE.
Once again it's the little guy who gets fisted.
Just one more nerf to protecting your space/earning isk in 0.0 as a solo or small group.
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PianoCat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:20:00 -
[54]
Edited by: PianoCat on 10/05/2011 18:20:19
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
Spot on Vuk
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Korerin Mayul
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:20:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Chia Mulholland Finally a nerf to subcaps. God knows they were getting way too powerful compared to caps and supercaps.
this.
dear ccp I dont know what we 0.0 folks have done to annoy you so much, goodness knows we keep even in the press with our blobs and meta-gaming, but i can only assume by the fact your pushing ahead with flaying us out of our hand-made empires that a simple 'im sorry' wont suffice. never the less, for what we have done to offend you, i am sorry.
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services White Angels.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:20:00 -
[56]
Edited by: northwesten on 10/05/2011 18:24:02 Ok before people start crying about the changes... I want to get this straight This is a good change on JB's.... It's better what we have now and it will force alliance to take action against hostile gate camps... If the alliance can't hold their systems then they don't have the right to have it period. Funny like the old days really.
Logistic is still do able even they remove it... Jump freighters.. This will not hurt small alliances because if they have a poor logistic then they are hurting them self period. I lived in the region with no access to JB and I had a blast trying to stay alive moving crap around.
So good call on this change CCP. This was very much needed and make people work as a team more.
Originally by: Julia Fistage Mmmmmm... NC tears... please continue to share them with us
------------------------------------
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Selma Body
Amarr Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:21:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Selma Body on 10/05/2011 18:21:20 Ugh this is just terrible.
Why don't you fix the pos mechanic while you're at it since we have to move all of them now(this is what makes logi people commit suicide)
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Snou H'egemon
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:21:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
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Donny Osmond
Strategic Syndicate -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
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kula kain
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:21:00 -
[60]
few words is all i have to say
ccp your ruining the game you purchased second hand cause you dont know what the **** your doing..
stop ****ing up our game that we have worked the last 11 ****ing years to accumulate.
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JasonKuehn
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:21:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
Truth right there. Does anyone remember a time when CCP made a change that actually made sense?
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Admiral Goberius
Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:22:00 -
[62]
GOD BLESS YOU CCP <3
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Karles
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:22:00 -
[63]
This is what you get when you mix alcohol and weed before a brainstorming. Fix the ****ing lag for once and stop making stupid changes.
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DG J
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:22:00 -
[64]
YES, i am so glad CCP is trying to make the CSM seem credible by changing JBs!!!
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maya ibuki2
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:23:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
not empty quotin'
seriously ccp,. stop ****ing with strawmen and look at the actual problems of this game. jesus wept. seriously. 0ok! |
WarGod
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:23:00 -
[66]
Finaly, a dev blog that hasnt made me want to stop playing :P
Love the JB change as it promotes some degree of risk and thus pvp back into 0.0. Long overdue and hope to see more changes like this.
Dare i say keep up the good work?
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Johann Rascali
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:23:00 -
[67]
I do not endorse this service and/or product.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:23:00 -
[68]
Someone on FHC pointed out that JFs should probably receive similar treatment to BOBS... the idea that someone is gonna fly their JF through a regular gate to top off the JB network is pretty laughable.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Tandin
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:23:00 -
[69]
I suppose I should offer PL and the Russians a bit of thanks for taking care of my miserable task before I had to go rearrange the whole damn Vale network. That said, I'll still let them starve in RL if ever given the opportunity. (No, that's not an exaggeration)
It is seriously amusing to see the goonies and test cry about it though.
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Ronan Teisdari
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:24:00 -
[70]
Seriously?
You want to implement something that drastically changes the game in 0.0 without any input from the player base?
You guys are seriously f'kn stupid and ruining the game.
The backlog list is -----> for starters.
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Fuujin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:24:00 -
[71]
Will Jump Freighters be exempt from this as well as Black Ops battleships?
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Admiral Goberius
Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:24:00 -
[72]
Originally by: kula kain few words is all i have to say
ccp your ruining the game you purchased second hand cause you dont know what the **** your doing..
stop ****ing up our game that we have worked the last 11 ****ing years to accumulate.
lmao only the NC is complaining look at the posters
(get out)
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[73]
I see you have abandoned the sand box in favour of "This is how it should be".
Best change you could make is to keep expanding 0.0 by adding new NPC regions with links to empire that become claimable space after, say six months when another region could be added.
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Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh This is awful.
Originally by: Smoking Blunts once again you show you know **** all about your game and customers
Originally by: Wibla This JB nerf is impressively stupid.
CCP, do you even play your own game?
I really don't have anything else to add to what's been said here. Just throwing my support in for how terrible these changes are. And yes, I'm a citizen of null. -----
Originally by: Gierling Tech III is going to be "Fully modular" until someone crams the "EW Bonus" modules together with the "8 Midslots" modules...
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Immolatus Sinistrus
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[75]
You have got to be kidding me... I mean really ccp, first your nerf my income, then you nerf my method of moving around, get ****ed! So many things to fix, and this is what you fix? Why don't you fix my lag instead of thinking up these ridiculous changes! Why don't you fix low sec, or the suicide gank mechanism in high sec. Dozens of problems and you choose the non-problem. <3 Eve, HATE CCP!
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Desya Dak'ann
Caldari Incertae Sedis Atlas.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[76]
Well done CCP, you have *officially* driven even more people out of 0.0, and into high sec
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Elendar
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[77]
Awesome changes, been needed for a long time Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist |
Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[78]
this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha Brasts |
VampireZIM
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:25:00 -
[79]
Total bullsh*t!
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Higgs Foton
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:26:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
Quoted for great justice! ___________________________________
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Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:26:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
This change is ill-advised, utterly cretinous and makes Perpetuum online look appealing.
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Illectroculus Defined
No Bull Ships
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:26:00 -
[82]
These represent a reasonable first step, although I'd also like to see jump freighters permitted to use Jump bridges too. My feeling is the jump bridges should primarily be tools for easing logistics, rather than a shortcut to head your enemies off at the pass.
I'd really like to see jump bridges visible on the system overview, and anchored on their own, away from the security of POS guns so that they're much more like stargates. For bonus points, make em easy to knock and undefended bridge offline (but hard to destroy) so that they're only really usable in well defended systems. Spaceships! |
Furb Killer
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:26:00 -
[83]
Originally by: WarGod Finaly, a dev blog that hasnt made me want to stop playing :P
Love the JB change as it promotes some degree of risk and thus pvp back into 0.0. Long overdue and hope to see more changes like this.
Dare i say keep up the good work?
If you actualy think this increases the ammount of pvp in 0.0 you are just deluding yourself.
I assume by PVP you mean ganking ships that dont stand a chance to defend themselves. That is all nice if your most important goal is getting nice KB stats, but how often do you think you an gank a pve ship before he just starts making his ISK in high sec? That is if he stays in 0.0 at all.
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Merkal Aubauch
Caldari D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:26:00 -
[84]
Well awesome change.
Maybe it'll bring back some more solo pvp...
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NATBECKETT
Caldari
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:26:00 -
[85]
My god ccp cant you sort out the god dam problems that need bloody sorting first before you go messing with the stuff that actually work!
god how about you listen to your player base for once!
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Kimsemus
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:27:00 -
[86]
Thanks for taking away one of the few rewards for having a secure 0.0 empire, which we pay a lot of isk per month for.
CCP, I love you, but right now, I hate you.
I hate you so much.
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Dibble Dabble
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:27:00 -
[87]
"Luckily, the CSM will be joining us this month"
You got to be f'ing joking, wtf can they offer other than their own RMT / Bot funded alliances.
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Vuk Lau
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:27:00 -
[88]
Its funny reading the trolls who didnt hold any space for years.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:27:00 -
[89]
Came in thread expecting NC mega butthurt, did not disappoint.
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Truckstop Betty
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:27:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Jack bubu Good change :)
Removing 0.0 safety is allways good.
expect alot of DC/NC tears heh
Lol
says the tool that doesn't live in nullsec
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services White Angels.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:28:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Admiral Goberius GOD BLESS YOU CCP <3
THIS! ------------------------------------
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maya ibuki2
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:28:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
and unsurprisingly, the people supporting it are those it doesnt effect. 0ok! |
Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:28:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Fiberton on 10/05/2011 18:30:44 I have played this game for 7 years and its been great. More and more you introduce terrible " upgrades ". Thanks for a great game but im just done with you. You guys do not know a damn thing about 0.0. I almost have no desire already to get on and play and you make it even worse than it already is. I am tired of managing all these accounts anyway. Thanks for helping me make that decision. It has been on my mind for a while. O/
I am just waiting for BF3 anyway. "I seek Understanding in a world of 1`s & 0`s. I seek oneness in a world of chaos." |
Ami Hantaka
Trans-Solar Works
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:28:00 -
[94]
So 0.0 will no longer be the deep blue safe-zone that it currently is? I approve!
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InnerDrive
Shiva Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:29:00 -
[95]
Edited by: InnerDrive on 10/05/2011 18:31:28 Ok so i dunno what genious thought that making it impossible for capitals (carriers) to defend a cynojammer properly woud be a cool idea but this is horrible lol
Now how are people trying to defend their space supposed to defend their allready very low hp cynojammers (heck the things die in like 10 mins against blobs these days) theres no time to defend the jammer. and as soon the cynojammer go's down "supercapitals online" begins , and when 100 supers enter system , the fight for the system is over as they are unkillable at that point.
If you want to do something about 0.0 , start by figuring out some way to reduce the ever increasing amount of supercaps. and make it so that other ships besides supercaps become more usefull in 0.0 combat because with current mechanics you just blob up as big as possible supercaps blob and you win. And taking out a jammer to get those supers in only takes like 10 minutes with a bs fleet. Thats the entire "sov mechanics" for ya. Nerfing bridges just makes it even harder to defend.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:29:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Karles This is what you get when you mix alcohol and weed before a brainstorming. Fix the ****ing lag for once and stop making stupid changes.
They are fixing the lag, by making it as difficult as possible to move a fleet anywhere.
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inekim
The Singularity Project
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:29:00 -
[97]
Originally by: WarGod Love the JB change as it promotes some degree of risk and thus pvp back into 0.0. Long overdue and hope to see more changes like this.
Camping gates in between JBs...you can't call that PVP.
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Obiwand
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:29:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
FAIL NC tears best tears
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Valrandir
Gallente Distant Thunder Perihelion Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:29:00 -
[99]
Nice Blog
This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware. |
Admiral Goberius
Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:30:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Vuk Lau Its funny reading the trolls who didnt hold any space for years.
because the people who cheered the nano nerf were the ones flying vagabonds amirite
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Bring Stabity
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:31:00 -
[101]
Claiming you want to improve nullsec for those living there, then making it hugely harder on those that do currently
the words "get ****ed" comes to mind
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Gritstone
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:31:00 -
[102]
Have you considered just scrapping 0.0 and making all of EVE 1.0 Empire Space so we can all just run Lv4s for the rest of eternity?
More and more it seems that CCP have no understanding of how this game is actually played. I'm so glad that this change was implemented before all of the other issues that could of been addressed.
Great job CCP.
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Jack Lagoon
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:31:00 -
[103]
Does ccp actually ever listen to the customers?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:32:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ami Hantaka So 0.0 will no longer be the deep blue safe-zone that it currently is? I approve!
You mean you think adding incentives to NAP more people will decrease the size of the blue-zone? Please explain...
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Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:32:00 -
[105]
Came expecting the remaining half of Dominion.
Leaving disappointed. -----
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Gerard Gendri
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:32:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
Notice how all the people happy about fly nyxes
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:33:00 -
[107]
Originally by: CCP Fallout Changes are afoot for 0.0, and CCP Soundwave's newest dev blog has all the details. Read it here.
Holy God, please let this actually happen
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Klausan
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:33:00 -
[108]
This is the best change after the anomality nerf. Good job CCP.
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:33:00 -
[109]
I assume just like you guys threatened to do regarding the sanctum changes, the NC will now collapse as everyone is going to QQ and quit over this as well?
Good riddance.
If you idiots are going to quit over having to cyno around cyno ships, welp. Bai bai. ___
Chaotic Dreams |
Taki Gemel
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:33:00 -
[110]
bwhahahhahahahahahah
hahahaha
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:33:00 -
[111]
This is a fantastic and long needed change. Applause to you CCP.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:34:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Gerard Gendri
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
Notice how all the people happy about fly nyxes
They do have their rediculous T3 fleets as well. But yeah I suppose I wouldn't care either if I flew nothing but supers.
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Jack Lagoon
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:35:00 -
[113]
So if you're preventing caps from using a jump bridge, will you thus make it possible for a cyno beacon (pos mod) to be active at the same time as a cyno jammer in a system so corp/alliance caps may jump in?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:35:00 -
[114]
Originally by: maya ibuki2
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
and unsurprisingly, the people supporting it are those it doesnt effect.
It's not going to affect the NC either by the time it's implemented.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Ozzie Asrail
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:35:00 -
[115]
No wonder 0.0 is a boring napfest of blobs. Look at all these tears!
There was life in 0.0 before jump drives were invented let alone bridges.
I was having mixed feelings about the blog until I read this thread. Now I'm 100% sure this change is needed.
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Percival Gates
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:35:00 -
[116]
I have a counter-proposal:
Make it so that jump bridges use zero LO fuel and double their jump range. No? Perhaps we can meet in the middle; just don't change anything and I'll call it even.
My theory of what goes on at CCP headquarters: "We need to figure out how to make things as much of a giant pain in the nuts for our 0.0 playerbase without doing anything that actually affects the game content. Any ideas?"
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services White Angels.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:35:00 -
[117]
man Me and PL agree on something... I been playing this game for 7 years and I think 0.0 got freaking soft.... I still was able to operate in null with out jump bridges for a while.. Can't handle the risk? then leave null!
Oh and people asking for more regions don't be a tool.. Space not even half full ffs. ------------------------------------
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:35:00 -
[118]
Jump bridges: saved
-----------------
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Lightzy
Cult of the Spinning Meat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:36:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
+1
CCP don't listen the crybabies, this is good
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Karles
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:36:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Obiwand
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
FAIL NC tears best tears
Heh you don't count that making life harder for those that hold space in nullsec will make your mercenary contracts dissapear, amirite? With less ppl willing to live in nullsec your fun is gone, and ours too.
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Aryndel Vyst
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:36:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
The only people supporting it are folks either not in nullsec or folks in Pandemic ****hole. Basically an entire population of irrelevance.
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State Citizen
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:37:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Jack Lagoon So if you're preventing caps from using a jump bridge, will you thus make it possible for a cyno beacon (pos mod) to be active at the same time as a cyno jammer in a system so corp/alliance caps may jump in?
You'll probably need to explain that in more simple terms - CCP don't actually play this game.
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Celistin
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:37:00 -
[123]
Originally by: maya ibuki2
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
and unsurprisingly, the people supporting it are those it doesnt effect.
^^
this
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Kazaux Aux
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:37:00 -
[124]
I love all the NC tears, but do the realize they will only have to worry about jumpbridges or cyno jammers for like 2 weeks after the change anyways.
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Ni Cho
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:37:00 -
[125]
Dumbest idea this year. I didn't think that was even possible considering the new forum screw up and the anom changes according to system sec status. |
Ziranda Hakuli
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:39:00 -
[126]
We all know that 0.0 is suppose to be scary and creepy with the possibility of death around any corner. the jmp Bridges have made life easy for logistic support and rapid response fire team to defend territory from invaders.
I really do think the any ship (minus Black Ops) that have jump capability not be able to use the jump bridge. but limiting it to only 1 bridge a system is kinda ******ed i see why but as i was thinking i thought i suggest this Take the strategic blockade unit and create a new more advance version that you still need the typical 1 per stargate in system but this will also affect the the Jump Bridge and cyno beacon if one is in system....and possibly call it a Tactical Strategic Blockade Unit.
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Johan von Ulm
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:39:00 -
[127]
What is this? Less incentive to live in 0.0? Why, that's just what was needed.
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:39:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Aryndel Vyst The only people supporting it are folks either not in nullsec or folks in Pandemic ****hole. Basically an entire population of irrelevance.
That's right because if you aren't blued up the NC's ass, you don't live in nullsec. Amirite? ___
Chaotic Dreams |
Davor
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:39:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Chia Mulholland Finally a nerf to subcaps. God knows they were getting way too powerful compared to caps and supercaps.
You can gank a target on a jump bridge surprisingly easy. Even with two in system. And any logistics guy worth his salt is going to scout systems ahead of himself anyway, all this does is make an already long job longer.
Clearly CCP doesn't play this game, it's also apparent that they hate people who live in 0.0. Is it because CCP only plays in highsec? They're jealous because we play the part of the game that is actually fun sometimes?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:39:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 10/05/2011 18:40:06
Originally by: northwesten man Me and PL agree on something... I been playing this game for 7 years and I think 0.0 got freaking soft.... I still was able to operate in null with out jump bridges for a while.. Can't handle the risk? then leave null!
Oh and people asking for more regions don't be a tool.. Space not even half full ffs.
No and with ccps current heading space is getting more and more empty.
But can you explain how your complaining about 0.0 getting soft is related to you being in a renter alliance of the powerblock with by far most space? And how is giving more incentives to join powerblocks gonna change that?
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:39:00 -
[131]
Geeze CCP why don't you just set 0.0 sec to 0.1-0.4 already and have done with all these changes.
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Don Kartel
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:40:00 -
[132]
CCP soundwave - Breaking EVE since 2003
Maybe if the dev's stopped trying to mold the game based on their playing styles then maybe their customers would appreciate change more.
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:40:00 -
[133]
POSes have needed fixing for years - still not done
Sovereignty changes that were done to stop POS bashing have caused some of the biggest, and unplayable blobs the game has ever seen - no change
Supercaps overpowered - little changes, but hardly anything
Technetium - still no changes
Vast amounts of the Drone Regions et all used for botting - still happening
Nerf the sanctum income in the name of 'conflict' as opposed to just saying they generate too much isk - check
0.0 is quickly becoming a chore, not an enjoyment.
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Kateryne
Minmatar Kat's Discount Weapon Emporium NISYN Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:41:00 -
[134]
Great idea, but what about the real core issue concerning warfare - ship balance! And im not talking about HAC vs BS or Inty vs Hauler, but within each class, i.e. Drake is immensely powerful due to passive shield tanking, its slot layout, resistances, damage output etc. Kudos to CCP for braving the masses with yet more controversial changes, but come on guys... you can't see the wood for the trees.
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Resender
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:41:00 -
[135]
CCP This is stupid and counter-productive It will live for smaller alliances hard and it will make the biig gorged alliances who can field over a 100 supercaps to one fight even more overpowered. This will result in more stress to empire and people leaving eve in droves
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Lt Smithh
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:42:00 -
[136]
1. PL your a bunch of "live at home F**s, We know you live in your 4 Sov system that don't need a JB network as you blob your Super's around.
2. CCP I think you really need to stop looking at "nerfing" 0.0 and start looking at "improving" 0.0, It seems all you are doing these last few months (that affect myself and 99% of 0.0 living) Is nerfing and trying to make it "harder" for the big alliances and "more fair" for the little alliances.
The problem is that the "big alliances" are the ones that have put in the work and time you are hurting, and the little guys that just want to come run 5 man roams through some red space your giving HUGE advantage too, your doing that by taking the advantage away from the larger alliances that have worked YEARS to learn and setup systems and networks to be affective and have the upper hand in there systems.
Its almost like saying that the US military will loose all of its Carriers and support ships and they can only use there battleships because the people we are at war with does not have Carriers.
It makes 0 sense and is really disappointing.
- Lt |
Javajunky
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:42:00 -
[137]
CCP in front of Carebear girls.
Come to Null Sec, we're going to screw the people over who live there for your benefit.
CCP in front of Null Sec pilots
**** off
That is all
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Ordo Xenia
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:43:00 -
[138]
So who's gonna pay you PL if no one live there anymore? Whose Sc's you wanna gank, if you find noone around? Whose JB you gonna camp if no one wants to hold space? Who you gonna gank when there are only some seldom solo pvp'ers around?
You forgot your trailer texts "Creation is so precious and greed so destructive" ... CCP punishing ppl. who try to create something and awarding only ppl. who like to destroy it all. The balance is gone.
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Thumplex Bumpitron
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:43:00 -
[139]
Yeah, because no one dies in 0.0. Why don't we all move back to empire and hold hands.
This is just ******ed. Let people have 10000x jump bridges and the economy will handle itself. There have been complaints about not enough sinks, so why not?
Missions still all happen in the same places, and will still all be camped to all get out.
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:43:00 -
[140]
I fully support the changes. Great work CCP!
These changes might actually lead to more conflict and trouble for huge sprawling empires (NC) that rely on being able to move huge numbers from one region to another while being more or less in invul-mode (******ation excluded).
Take that away and they'll crubmle and we may get back many more smaller entities instead of one huge stagnant heap of carebears.
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Dalvor Coraneu
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:44:00 -
[141]
Fail CCP, fail.
Rather than combat lag or RMT we get this ****.
If someone is willing to fund and spend the time managing a proper JB network then wtf is the problem with that. Reds know the JBs anyway and frequently camp.
Yet another reason from CCP to ditch this game.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:44:00 -
[142]
Does anyone else find it awesome how the majority of people chiming in about how bad this is is the NC/Goons/TEST bloc? :D |
Vladic Ka
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:44:00 -
[143]
CCP Fallout is my new favourite dev.
Long time coming.
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Jita Rich
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:45:00 -
[144]
Bugfixes > Nerfing
How can you keep ignoring the players? Seriously, I don't get it.
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MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:46:00 -
[145]
I am curious what percentages of player owned outposts in 0.0 space are in cyno jammed systems. With the nerf it is going to be impossible to get carriers into a lot of the station systems as they are perma jammed. It is going to be interesting to see how different alliances adapt the space they hold to these changes.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:46:00 -
[146]
Because god forbid that an alliance can spend time, money and resources to help protect their members. **** that ****, right?
This idea fails for many reasons, here are a few;
1) There are already bottleneck systems CREATED by the JB network. Cross overs need to happen from one network to another, for this we have ample cloaky gankers on standby.
2) The requirements for a JB are such that some safety is an acceptable outcome. Try fueling the JB's at time of war, mmkay?
3) JB networks CREATE fights; maybe you didn't notice all the efforts and isk people put into defending them.
4) You may well create LESS traffic as a result. I for one will move things via jump drives, **** your gate system, it's old and useless.
5) It is not viable - isk wise, to risk large amounts of resources through areas that can be hit by fast cloaky things; ala, gates. You've made all spaces worth LESS, remember? It's a knock on effect, to get more from less, you need to reduce risk. GJ with that btw, dorks.
I can keep going, but yeah... Thanks for proving that a series of small, terribly bad ideas can lead to a massively ******ed idea more than once within the bounds of CCP HQ. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:46:00 -
[147]
I can't claim I know the depth of the changes this will bring to 0.0, but I do love the tears in this thread...lol. ~Gnosis~ |
penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:47:00 -
[148]
IF Y'ALL CAN READ THIS THEN Y'ALL BEEN PWNED
WELCOME TO THE PWNZONE
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:47:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Vladic Ka CCP Fallout is my new favourite dev.
He just announced the blog, he didn't write it!
-----------------
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Fantome
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:48:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Someone on FHC pointed out that JFs should probably receive similar treatment to BOBS... the idea that someone is gonna fly their JF through a regular gate to top off the JB network is pretty laughable.
-Liang
Cynogenerator is the way JF will use..
Good move CCP ! keep the good work
Signature removed for not being EVE related. Zymurgist |
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Tandin
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:48:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Lt Smithh 1. PL your a bunch of "live at home F**s, We know you live in your 4 Sov system that don't need a JB network as you blob your Super's around.
A) It's "you're"
Originally by: Lt Smithh
Its almost like saying that the US military will loose all of its Carriers and support ships and they can only use there battleships because the people we are at war with does not have Carriers.
B) The US doesn't technically have any BS's on the naval registry. Guided missile cruisers and such, yes. BS's.. no..
Not sure how nerfing JB's equates to neutering ship classes though. Jump capable ships are still useful. It just means you can't jam every system anymore (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
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ArmyOfMe
Toys R Us
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:48:00 -
[152]
I only got one thing to say about this change, and that is ♥♥♥♥♥CCP♥♥♥♥♥♥
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Guyver Kalithdor
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:50:00 -
[153]
CCP... first time posting on a "idea" of yours....
You have to be f-ing kidding me... Exactly how do you plan to get this game to 2014 if you compeltely change the very core of it's dymanics. Do you think your core player base is PVE empire miners and mission runners or are they the hundreds of thousands in 0.0 space.
Are you trying for a Star Wars "Combat Update"
All you empire whinners about how "unfair" it is for you to not live in 0.0, WoW takes new subscriptions every day. Or you can ponny up and join us in 0.0 space.
CCP stop changing your game for the minority against the majority. There is no way 0.0 players want this garbage, and that is who it affects.
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Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:50:00 -
[154]
Eh, there's an easy fix if they implement this: Don't live in 0.0.
Or quit playing eve, only way you can win. -- Kismeteer, carebear extraordinaire
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PsychoLynchy
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:50:00 -
[155]
lol ... just lol
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Elena Stormbringer
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:50:00 -
[156]
Terrible.
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:50:00 -
[157]
I know that I'm telling something that no one will care about, but all the CCP staff should at least try to play in the game that they develop. Also, imho I don't really like to be compared to a model as a 0.0 dweller.
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Avoida
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:51:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
Sure..it doesn't affect Morsus Mihi that much, but hot damn does it really screw all your pets who rely so heavily upon the MM bridge network to reach Branch and Tenal.
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keval4
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:51:00 -
[159]
2011 is year of restrictions and stupid ideas for 0.0 sov what should we do to stop you implenting stupid ideas and forcing peoples leave nullsec ?
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:51:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 18:52:16 Why dont you do something with an actual impact like nerf supercaps instead of just making 0.0 a more boring place to be?
Subcaps are worthless already, no need to nerf them further.
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:51:00 -
[161]
Oh ****, we accidentally made 0.0 almost worth living in!
JUST. NERF. EVERYTHING. |
Celistin
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:52:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Major Stallion Does anyone else find it awesome how the majority of people chiming in about how bad this is is the NC/Goons/TEST bloc? :D
You mean kinda how awesome it is that most of the people going on about how great this is aren't affected by the changes?
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penifSMASH
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:52:00 -
[163]
QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:52:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 18:54:39 Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 18:53:18
Originally by: penifSMASH IF Y'ALL CAN READ THIS THEN Y'ALL BEEN PWNED
WELCOME TO THE PWNZONE
definitely not empty quoting
no but really
Brasts |
Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:52:00 -
[165]
CCP believes that there should be no safe places in EVE. While this may be agreed with at face value by many players, ALL players are by nature, risk adverse. No one in the game is going to take an action without either reducing the likelihood of incurring a loss, or reducing the impact of one.
CCP however, seems to always go to new lengths to find ways to reverse or stymie this process. As soon as someone makes it too safe, or too reasonable, in comes the nerfbat.
I hope you take a good, long look at 0.0, and along with it, the state of the game in general, and where you'd like to go with it. We have all looked at CCP's various efforts to move more and more people out into 0.0, with little results. And I think this latest proposal shows, is that for all of the talk about wanting a brutal game world, players will opt for the safest, most cost-effective means of advancement possible. The majority of players in the game have weighed that and decided that level 4 missions are the best way to achieve that. Yet CCP focuses the majority of it's time and concentration on 0.0 content, to be experienced only by a small percent.
The content and features added to 0.0 have obviously not been effective at convincing the player-base to pack up and move out to the badlands. The level of effort and time required for the rewards gained is not worth it to most. On the other side of the game, there has been a dearth of rich content in favor of new PvP styles meant to mimic 0.0, which are avoided all the same. (It speaks volumes that CCP had to implement penalties for not performing incursions rather than selling them on their own merits.)
It would be fine enough if CCP's design team said "to heck with what everyone says, we only care about hardcore PvP anyways" and let the subscription numbers speak for themselves. Unfortunately that's not what the numbers show, and even with EVE being in the No. 2 slot, that position is slipping.
One of these days, CCP will have to decide what kind of game EVE wants to be, and whether or not it can afford to be so exclusive. I suspect that it could be, at the cost of it's grandiose aspirations. But if it ever wants to bill itself as a real game, instead of a second job for the hardcores, then it will need to take a real hard look at risk vs. reward in this game, and dispense with some long-held dogmas in the process.
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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Tom Sasaki
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:53:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Kismeteer Eh, there's an easy fix if they implement this: Don't live in 0.0.
Or quit playing eve, only way you can win.
You know I barely used JBs at all back when I was in IT.
Kinda creepy the emotional attachment you guys have towards those JBs. But then goons have always been attached to their "eye of terror" doctrine and that is rather JBdependant.
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:53:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
lol
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Orion XXX
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:54:00 -
[168]
Dear CCP,
Calling this a tweak is wrong. Not telling us this was in the works at Fanfest is wrong.
Looks look you (CCP) is giving the 0.0 population the finger. Guess what: We can give you the finger as well. (CSM??)
What do you think? And yeah i dont give a **** about the empire/lowsec people that are being "brave" in this thread.
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:54:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Prof Fail Edited by: Prof Fail on 10/05/2011 18:18:52 CCP...how can you build a jb network with just 1 jb per system?
Thats really the dumbest idea I ever heard. It will be heaven for cloaking gatecampers and 0.0 Traffic will be impossible.
SHOCKER: when I started out in 0.0 there were neither JBs nor JFs nor titan bridges and people had like 1 carrier per corp to move stuff around.
Yes, it was more work (for logistics guys/carebears) Yes, it was riskier (for everyone) but also Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)
Sure, if your only concern is how you can maximize your ratting earnings (or those of your bots) and reduce the risk then I can see how you'd find this bad. If you actually play the fun part of game on the other hand then you should be rejoicing.
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Starkiller Adams
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:54:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Starkiller Adams on 10/05/2011 18:55:51 NOw that i have composed myself from my first rage/tears post.
As park of that big blue carebear zone in 0.0 this wont change a ****ing thing...................just take longer to move ****.
What makes me ****ing rage is how u: 1)Do whatever comes into your dam minds 2)Dont consult the playerbase 3)Make stupid ass changed 4)Make changes while largely ignoring the ****ton of half assed project u have implimented thus far *cough lowsec, faction warefare cough* god knows the list goes on 5)U only seem to be poking and messing with low sec but a vast majority of people live in high sec
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[171]
Oh god the tears in here are freaking spectacular.
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Azaydius
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Azaydius on 10/05/2011 18:54:58 I would love to have explained to me logically how potentially doubling the number of systems requiring jump bridges and therefore towers to deploy them on does anything to help logistics not want to commit suicide? So now they have to take down current bridges / towers, put up new towers (which have to be fueled regularly) and they have to fly to twice as many systems to maintain all of this? I think you will find logistics people very confused by this being meant to 'help' them. This is a moronic change, please remove your heads from your backsides.
Dreddit - Exploding hilariously on a daily basis! (It's what we do)
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 10/05/2011 18:55:26
Originally by: Fantome
Originally by: Liang Nuren Someone on FHC pointed out that JFs should probably receive similar treatment to BOBS... the idea that someone is gonna fly their JF through a regular gate to top off the JB network is pretty laughable.
-Liang
Cynogenerator is the way JF will use..
Good move CCP ! keep the good work
Hmmm... IIRC you can't use them in a cynojammed system, but honestly I wasn't a JF pilot last time I was in a 0.0 alliance. Overall, I got nothing to say about this change except that the tears are delicious.
/shrug
Ed: I guess you can offline/online the cynojammer to bring in your JFs? Could provide for a situation like a "lowering the gate" and timed invasions? Could be p cool -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services White Angels.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[174]
Edited by: northwesten on 10/05/2011 18:55:00 I like to note I been playing this game for 7 years. I know 0.0 before JB and jump freighter and freighter ffs. This is a good change to make 0.0 more risky. I mean I was in NC and traveling around at such a low risk... I was in detroid and had no access to JB network of WA or WN. I managed to deal with logistics and managed to operate very well down their. Soon I got WN JB life became very easy again...
If their a hostile gang camping Alliance use to gang up and remove them. You getting rich in 0.0 I mean Amon changed but not as rich as you get as you use too but still way better than empire.
Small alliance going to get hurt? No they wont because if you don't have the logistic your hurting your self period end of story.... Every Corporation should make sure they have logistic sorted.
Moving fleets going to suck? No again it wont you have titians use them. JB can help and you can engage on the way like any other. You should move your fleet to one side of the EVE to another in 15mins No freaking way.. So your making a buffer and gaps.
Though only thing I worried about is Caps that can't use JB's. Maybe they should have Capital type JB to move your ship into a cyno jammed system? Anyhow This will enable Corporation and small alliance to engage bigger alliances. Opens the risk getting hurt big time but If people in the alliance doesn't work together then you do not have the right to hold space period. I pretty much angry people complaining about logistic when you have JUMP FREIGHTER FFS! I moved my standard freighter from detroid to high sec on my own with an alt....... If I can do that I sure you can do other thing pretty well.
So WoW players please STFU! ------------------------------------
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[175]
Soundwave is no longer my favorite dev. I'm in search of another now.
Also I hate this.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[176]
This is an awesome change for smaller alliances because it forces people to actually use some gates to get from point a to point b when travelling long distances only; most small alliance will see basically no change from this, only the megacoalitions who were able to move their ratting ships or titans from the southern end of fountain to geminate in like 8 jumps without using a single gate under a cynojammer the whole time will now actually have to scout ahead like the rest of us not in the nc Enjoy babbies :) Brasts |
Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[177]
Originally by: penifSMASH QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair
Does anyone in PL fly drakes? I thought you were all in supers and t3s that DRF bought you.
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I Legionnaire
Autocannons Anonymous
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:55:00 -
[178]
BAHAHA
look at all of the rage For honour, and glory. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:56:00 -
[179]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while.
So I guess you guys were serious about the 18 months thing then?
-----------------
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Valfreyea
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:57:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: penifSMASH QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair
Does anyone in PL fly drakes? I thought you were all in supers and t3s that DRF bought you.
ice buuuuurn
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:57:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 18:57:47
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: penifSMASH QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair
Does anyone in PL fly drakes? I thought you were all in supers and t3s that DRF bought you.
mad cuz RUS are using the isk they have to actually win in the game instead of using it to pay for Vuk's rent?
NC have owned like 90% of the tech in game for ages and yet we're the ones with the money, ever wonder why? Brasts |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:58:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Karles
Originally by: Obiwand
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
FAIL NC tears best tears
Heh you don't count that making life harder for those that hold space in nullsec will make your mercenary contracts dissapear, amirite? With less ppl willing to live in nullsec your fun is gone, and ours too.
There were many more 0.0 mercs in the days before jump bridges than after.
Tbh, this proposal is a pretty minor nerf. Nothing about reducing range, or increasing fuel consumption. oh noes, my carrier will have to cyno, this is the worst possible thing that could ever happen
God forbid that sov holders have to sully themselves by using a gate once in a while.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Mad Ilya
hirr Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 18:58:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 18:20:30 From my april fools post to my corp:
Quote: Jump Bridges
Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.
Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or û by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor û at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.
To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second ôcharge upö timer added before your ship is being sent through.
Edit: The above was taken from an april fools post to my corp's forum, detailing changes that they'd never get.
The rationale for the above design is as follows: * It allows everyday logistics to be performed just as easily as today, if not easier. Simple ship movement no longer requires logistics people to constantly refuel the bridges * It slows down mass-fleet movement, with a mechanic that is understandable to players. * It allows smaller gangs to quickly move around with few if any limitations * It allows big fleets to move around, but slowly. * It still allows JB camping, provided that you camp the outgoing side, or dragbubble the POS.
This kind of 'cooldown timer' was actually suggested by some Outbreak guy few years ago and I personally like the idea. Let the JB cooldown between jumps, that's enough hindrance for a big fleet (which too often imo needlessly use bridges in first place). Keeps the logistic aspect but stops it being hotdrop/ambush tool.
What comes to the change, nice that it brings new life to 0.0. It's probably nothing bigger alliances can't somewhat safely reroute. Biggest 'FU' i see here is that these changes are designed and implemented while there's no CSM to even give input on the matter be it good or bad change.
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XPistolX
Muppet Factory Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:58:00 -
[184]
Best nerf ever.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:58:00 -
[185]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 18:58:47
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)
I'm sure there will be a lot more pvp now that subcaps will be even more irrelevant than they already are.
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Vereesa
Gallente THORN Syndicate THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:59:00 -
[186]
Oh man. I barely scratched enough ISK to live in null during dominion even with cosmic anomalies (thanks for those by the way, I'd worship whoever made that sov upgrade like a god), but it just seems like you want to make like difficult with this.
I really tried to make a balanced argument but it all boils down to incoherent rage in the end, so I'll simply say from my experience this would drive people out of Null, not encourage new alliances and I hate this possibly more than any other change I've ever seen to EVE. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:59:00 -
[187]
Waità people are actually surprised by this change? As in something other than "well, that was not as drastic a change as was expected"?
Ha!
Also: goodish change. A bit on the meek side, perhaps, but definitely an improvement. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:59:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: penifSMASH QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair
Does anyone in PL fly drakes? I thought you were all in supers and t3s that DRF bought you.
They wont fly supers if any NC cap FC is logged on, too scared to lose them...
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ANGAL 2000
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:59:00 -
[189]
Exactly what's needed great work ccp excellent Changes, I will look forward to them as their implemented and come in to force.
The Mittani for csm working as intended.
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Blackhorizon
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:59:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Blackhorizon on 10/05/2011 19:00:20 Nice changes Soundwave. I think the Jump Bridge changes don't go far enough though -- no nerf on range, and no increase on ozone use as a function of mass. :/
The next step must also include a redo/nerf of supercapitals (or remove them entirely) with the 0.0 tweaking down the line. I would totally support removing supercapitals from the game entirely, along with a HP reduction on sov structures. ~ |
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Balcor Mirage
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Posted - 2011.05.10 18:59:00 -
[191]
Once again you've forgotten about the smaller alliances and how this will affect them even more than larger alliances. There is a zero sum game where nullsec is concerned... a set amount of systems. You have also not addressed the issue surrounding jump bridges into cyno jammed systems.
Large alliances will have a better chance at adjusting to the new JB rules as they have more available systems. Smaller alliances may not have additional systems to reconfigure based on the 1 JB per system rule. This will also hammer the logistics capability of smaller alliances while increasing the already dangerously high risk of using standard gates. With Dominion, you drastically increased the need to use standard freighters in nullsec, now you intend to take away the JB safety for those freighters... even more so for the smaller alliances with limited system access.
Now... what about Cyno Jammed systems? If caps cannot use a JB, then you've effectively turned cyno jammed systems against their owners! This makes no sense whatsoever. Especially after alliances have invested in the highest maintenance item in nullsec. Do you intend to reduce the monthly cost of the now gimped cyno jammers?
Erase your whiteboards and start again. You have failed. Your hypothesis has no basis in truth.
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Eldaec
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:00:00 -
[192]
Hey, how about you add a reason for line membership of sov holding alliances to actually live in 0.0 before you make it ****ing uninhabitable?
EVE 2011 : Living in Empire, jump cloning out for occasional tech moon fights. Whoop-de-fricking-doo.
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Sai Kilshe
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:00:00 -
[193]
Ah, the nerf to the ability to make income in most of 0.0 wasn't enough eh? Now we're on to the root of the evil - owning space in 0.0. You really don't want but a handful of powerful organizations to own space and have it be anything worthwhile, do you? NPC space is looking awfully attractive now. What happens when all 0.0 powers are just PL clones that run around dropping blobs and no one owns anything? Apparently that's the goal?
How this fits in to your master plan for every real player to run 8 botting accounts and therefore increase the bottom line for CCP, I'm not clear on though. Is it true you'll be offering your own CCP-approved bots soon?
For your next "fix" could you please increase the abilities of Supercaps and perhaps seed them around a bit cuz there they really don't play much of a role in the game right now. lulz
What a joke. You really have no clue how your own game is played, do you?
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Rick Starkiller
Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:00:00 -
[194]
And there is an Eve God !
That is a good Change, no... an awesome change! Big Step in the right Direction. Thx CCP
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:02:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Celistin
Originally by: Major Stallion Does anyone else find it awesome how the majority of people chiming in about how bad this is is the NC/Goons/TEST bloc? :D
You mean kinda how awesome it is that most of the people going on about how great this is aren't affected by the changes?
oh, im affected by these changes...the mass exodus of NC idiots to empire space will lead to a target-rich environment for me. |
AntISGhey
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:02:00 -
[196]
Good to see your going to invest in 0.0 space as its only useful for building supercaps and shooting people in the face without getting a negative sec status hit.
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Indeterminacy
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:03:00 -
[197]
**** you CCP. I barely have time most evenings to get into a super cap super blob fleet to do sov warfare and you are making it harder / take longer. Which means less fun for me and people like me.
Plus, you've just nerfed the incomes of individual players (anoms)...while refusing to address the biggest elephant in the room: technitium.
CCP, you're doing it wrong.
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LegendaryFrog
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:03:00 -
[198]
As usual, the given goals of this change are pretty positive. The problem is that the change doesn't deliver the stated goals.
I'd support these jump bridge changes if capital ships didn't exist. Supercapitals in particular have a tremendous amount of power and are pretty much the standard through which 0.0 conflicts are decided at this point. Considering so much of 0.0 gameplay revolves around these large conflicts, every 0.0 change needs to have this fact taken into consideration.
Yes, this could potentially help increase the number of small gang "ganking" style conflicts in alliance owned space... that is a good thing!
However, the more dramatic effect on 0.0 is INCREASING the invulnerability of groups of supercapitals. The "huge superpower ships" that only the wealthiest/oldest players can fly become the only means of projecting force across vast distances.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:03:00 -
[199]
This thread is amazing.
Please continue (bwhahaahahahahahahahaha)
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:03:00 -
[200]
As if the NC back passage wasn't already stretched wide open so my head can fit inside!! This will let even more penetration!!! Bend over and take it!!!!
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Bryan Havoc
The Safe House
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:04:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Celistin
Originally by: Major Stallion Does anyone else find it awesome how the majority of people chiming in about how bad this is is the NC/Goons/TEST bloc? :D
You mean kinda how awesome it is that most of the people going on about how great this is aren't affected by the changes?
oh, im affected by these changes...the mass exodus of NC idiots to empire space will lead to a target-rich environment for me.
My thoughts exactly
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necrodon
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:04:00 -
[202]
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
oh wait
lololololololololololololololol
whining ***gots, best ***gots
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FatFreddy
ANZAC ALLIANCE RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:06:00 -
[203]
Loving it.
Loving it even more than after posting this, it will say Razor Alliance.
Haa hahahaha ha
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed a comment that isn't related to guild recruitment.
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Energon Avenger
Gallente ST STARFLEET COMMAND
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:06:00 -
[204]
noooo! aweful bye bye 0.0 empire rulez!
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Helen
White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:06:00 -
[205]
Excellent changes. GG CCP.
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Frozen Guardian
Registered Amateur Mathematicians
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:07:00 -
[206]
This is one CCP you need to think a bit more on.
It will slow PvP as people far back from the war line will be unable to come to fight quickly. If I am unable to get their easily, it will make me even more annoyed trying to get there. Ohh I lost a ship, well then why would I go back to fight? How to make EVE boring as hell...increase travel time. It's like the warp to 15km gate thing in a sense. Why force people to get to a location slower? You're practically forcing people to stay safe and at home. Much harder for alliances to help each other when you tear down the JB network.
Now the counter to this might be, well you can move your items to the war line if you're far away. Yes, because we all have the time in the world to move 20 ships to another station closer to the front...which now takes even longer because we have to use a gate between systems.
Thank you CCP for increasing travel time in null sec. Might as well bring back the warp to gate 15km fun while you're at it.
-FG
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Brannsy
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:07:00 -
[207]
Hey Heyheyheyeheyheyheyhey
Nullbears!
HTFU
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northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services White Angels.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:07:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Balcor Mirage Once again you've forgotten about the smaller alliances and how this will affect them even more than larger alliances. There is a zero sum game where nullsec is concerned... a set amount of systems. You have also not addressed the issue surrounding jump bridges into cyno jammed systems. Large alliances will have a better chance at adjusting to the new JB rules as they have more available systems. Smaller alliances may not have additional systems to reconfigure based on the 1 JB per system rule. This will also hammer the logistics capability of smaller alliances while increasing the already dangerously high risk of using standard gates. With Dominion, you drastically increased the need to use standard freighters in nullsec, now you intend to take away the JB safety for those freighters... even more so for the smaller alliances with limited system access. Now... what about Cyno Jammed systems? If caps cannot use a JB, then you've effectively turned cyno jammed systems against their owners! This makes no sense whatsoever. Especially after alliances have invested in the highest maintenance item in nullsec. Do you intend to reduce the monthly cost of the now gimped cyno jammers? Erase your whiteboards and start again. You have failed. Your hypothesis has no basis in truth.
I moved my standard freighter from detroid to high sec with my 2nd account as a scout..... your point means nothing... Oh and you have one JB FFS. You never been in 0.0 before JB's have you? I guess not.. Then again your head in the sand half the time and never have a clue what's going on around you.. Also you have a load of Jump freighters so doesn't effect you does it? oh wait PL stolen your **** for leaving it out in space My bad... ------------------------------------
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MissBolyai
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:07:00 -
[209]
I liked the old new forum better. You guys should be working on that instead.
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Karl Mort
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:07:00 -
[210]
Dear CCP: While changes to 0.0 reflect your commitment to improvements in the game, I would recommend to seriously listen to CSM and most of all, 0.0 Players. IÆm not going to comment on the JB changes, since you have stated that it will happen on the 17th; however, consider the implications further from free movement. JBÆs are a perk from SOV, limiting them you are removing perks from SOV. With the long term changes, I offer the following suggestions:
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? No it is not. It is geared towards cooperation of large alliances, not the population. Small alliances/corps do not have any chance of getting a piece of it, except for worthless systems with no more Sanctums/Hordes. If the Systems will be better per indices of status, then increase the perks but donÆt just take away from the poor. In addition make those systems have other perks. DED plexes, Radar sites, or other form of value. As is -0.4 systems are worthless to any alliance.
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough? No it is not. And it should not be. Empire is a safe haven for gankers and isk spammers. It is by far more dangerous than 0.0. Furthermore if limiting the JBÆs, then how about allowing corporations/alliances with proper standings in high-sec to anchor a pos and a JB? Or create a concord that can be called upon gankers with proper kill-mail evidence. Say the next 10 ships will be popped, or have them do hard time mining veld for paying off the ship they popped. Have them mine a FreighterÆs worth in Veld for every crime they commit. That should get rid of them. If they want to be pirates or PVP, have them engage low and 0.0 and experience PVP in truly outlaw space.
Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals? More info on your goals please? However, if an alliance holds SOV in a system, increase the perks to include better PI per level, or better Moon minerals per level (more on next topic).
Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov? Make moons more like PI or better, have a moon mineral be tied to the industry level to allow for less monopolization of certain markets and make other systems the more valuable. The Rarity Index of the moons is not really working. Alchemy, while great for non-high end moon systems and regions, works great to perform somewhat of a balance, but not enough to curb the monopoly. Is eve a free market, player driven economy? Then give us the resources to compete with monopolies.
Are we happy with movement/player interaction More info on your criteria please.
Just a note
Karl
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 -
[211]
First time I've smiled with excitement for the changes being brought into the game in ages.
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ArmyOfMe
Toys R Us
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 -
[212]
JB MAP
This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh
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Sealiah
Minmatar Coffee Lovers Brewing Club ROMANIAN-LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 -
[213]
Well, it'd be ok if there was also:
A: JBs would be visible on entry to system on the overview.
and
B: The JFs wouldn't lose the capability to jump threw them... This is sick, if you create an exception for the black ops, why not for the JFs? I don't own a JF, but it's just plain stupid to create different categories.
and
C: Make dreads jump as far as carriers -> the total jump distance limit
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 -
[214]
Extremely good changes CCP. Down with static null sec and those who rely on jump bridges for every single aspect of existing in null.
Time to use some :effort: guys when it comes to force projection and logistics. I know it will be impossible for some of you and high sec will welcome you with open arms. For those who rage quit the game, can I have your stuff?
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phalanx III
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:08:00 -
[215]
Y'all mad NC?
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SavageBastard
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[216]
Stoffer man, why are you guys constantly breaking things before you plan on fixing them? One of the very few advantages of living in 0.0 and fighting to maintain control of space is bridges. The only other advantage at the moment (particularly now that you've nerfed anoms) is building supercaps. So your plan is to make living in 0.0 significantly harder and then perhaps sometime in the future making it better? Maybe you could roll out a JB nerf as part of an overall reworking package? Doesn't that make a little more sense? Especially considering CCP's track record of getting around to things "eventually?"
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Cassius Longinus
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[217]
Should have been two per constellation, but up the ranges. Or alternatively move bridges/beacons off of POSses so they could be more normally interdicted. Still, better than nothing.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: Prof Fail Edited by: Prof Fail on 10/05/2011 18:18:52 CCP...how can you build a jb network with just 1 jb per system?
Thats really the dumbest idea I ever heard. It will be heaven for cloaking gatecampers and 0.0 Traffic will be impossible.
SHOCKER: when I started out in 0.0 there were neither JBs nor JFs nor titan bridges and people had like 1 carrier per corp to move stuff around.
Yes, it was more work (for logistics guys/carebears) Yes, it was riskier (for everyone) but also Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)
Sure, if your only concern is how you can maximize your ratting earnings (or those of your bots) and reduce the risk then I can see how you'd find this bad. If you actually play the fun part of game on the other hand then you should be rejoicing.
You tried hard, but here is where you failed, bolded for your reading pleasure.
The problem is, we are already way past the time where these changes are viable, or even level handed. Anyone who has a primarily capital driven force (aka, PL) will rightfully so laugh at these changes. Heck, I'm 100% nub and I still have the capital resources to mostly avoid these effects. (So why the hate? A change for changes sake =/= a good change, time better spent else where, it will waste more time in logistics, less time for pewpew, etc. take your pick.)
You honestly think this will create more "small" PvP? Because I'm sure you all know how much the power blocks stick to 10man gangs, right? As DRF/PL proved the other day, why use just a tengu fleet when you can drop titans as well! (Comes back to that common thread; reducing risk. Players will ALWAYS do it, and nothing CCP does will change our natural instincts to be safe.)
This was a great change, like 1 year after JB's were introduced. Now, not so much. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[219]
Quote: We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today. This particular area of space should offer a lot more opportunities than it does today, and thatÆs what weÆll put in. Good things will come
Bwahahahahahahahaha! Ahhhhh, that's... that's just... that's rich, CCP... hahahahaha... I needed a good laugh. Oh man, that's good. I don't know how you come up with this stuff.
You're off to a great start, keep it up!
"Good things will come"... I can't stop laughing.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Karl Mort Dear CCP: While changes to 0.0 reflect your commitment to improvements in the game, I would recommend to seriously listen to CSM
you mean the NC-dominated CSM, who was blatantly ignored for the better of the game? I actually, for once, agree with CCP on ignoring the CSM. CCP realized that if they wanted to save their game, and make it appeal to small gang PVP, they needed to make this change, regardless of what some unpaid, self-centered windbags want changed.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 18:57:47
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: penifSMASH QQ I'll need a scout now for my T1 shield purger Drake life is so unfair
Does anyone in PL fly drakes? I thought you were all in supers and t3s that DRF bought you.
mad cuz RUS are using the isk they have to actually win in the game instead of using it to pay for Vuk's rent?
NC have owned like 90% of the tech in game for ages and yet we're the ones with the money, ever wonder why?
Well I'm sure NC would have more isk if all their members had multiple accounts that did nothing but bot in supers 23/7. Though with you backing them, and them ddosing everyones forums, ts, and jabber servers they don't really have much to worry about right? CCP wants everyone to leave 0.0 but the russians so they can build their rmt empire.
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Akmun Ra
United Kings R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:09:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Akmun Ra on 10/05/2011 19:10:12
Originally by: Cellistara Quit messing with 0.0, everything that's been done to it since the incursion patches started has been terrible. If your goal is to get everyone but the Russian rmt'ers to leave then keep it up. Otherwise stick to screwing up hisec and leave 0.0 alone.
I completely agree!
This makes cyno-jams less desireable and supercaps EVEN MORE of a tactical advantage than they already are.
CCP policy #1: If it is not broken, fix it until it is.
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Firespyer
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:10:00 -
[223]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
QFT
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MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:10:00 -
[224]
CCP should nerf Jita.
Impose a 10% sales tax on all sales in Jita as an isk sink and see how quickly the markets decentralise.
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Kuar Z'thain
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 -
[225]
So.... Goonfleet Blackops didn't camp a set of jump bridges to the point that the hostiles actually offlined them?
I guess bridges are too easy. That why you definitely cannot in any way deploy an interdiction bubble 300 off the tower. Nope, no sir. Can't sit a ****ton of recons on that buble outside of tower range either.
There was absolutely no way of preventing people from using bridges.
/sarcasm
God you people are dumb. You too CCP.
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy Spreadsheets Online
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 -
[226]
Nerf 0.0 anoms... exodus from 0.0.
Now more nerfs to 0.0...
Quote: The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month.
So on 1 side this is a further nerf to the already useless cyno jammers. The other side means basically nothing as the large amount of LO made it pointless to do already.
Quote: The second and third changes will go in next month, with the main patch. We will be limiting the number of jumpbridges you can have in a system to one, while upping the fuelbay to 30.000 (3x) to avoid suicide among players who do logistics. We would suggest you start reconfiguring your jumpbridge network as soon as possible.
So you buff the fuel bay size so as to avoid suicide from boredom. Except now there's a need to jump through a gate making the logistics that much harder as well.
Quote: Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
It hasnt be able to since Ive been around.
Quote: Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Earn isk in highsec. Build everything in highsec. Fight in 0.0. lolwtf
Quote: Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
If your goal is to make sov warfare as painful as possible that the majority of people want the old system of pos warfare back.Then yes.
Quote: Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
Roaming gangs happen just like they have always but it's sov that's useless to fight over. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 -
[227]
Oh andà
Offering JF service. Cheap cheap (wellà maybeà kind ofà nah, not really)!
ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Cassius Hawkeye
Minmatar Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 -
[228]
Edited by: Cassius Hawkeye on 10/05/2011 19:12:16 A good change. Thank you CCP for actually looking at a critical flaw in the game, and the direction it is taking.
I lived in deep 0.0 in 2006/07, and it was a hard, but enjoyable life. We did freighter, ops, built titans, and dropped outposts, all funded by 45-50 man freighter ops going 45-50 jumps over a series of a few nights. No jump freighters, very few carriers, no bridges, minimal titans. Yet we still did it.
It really made you apprciate deep 0.0, and the risks associated with it. This change takes us a step closer to the good times. However, jump bridges remain, titans are all over the place, and also - we have jump freighters. So really the changes take us a step back, but not enough to make 0.0 desperatly difficult. It still is easy, and i wish perhaps the changes had been a little more extreme.
However - a definite step in the right direction. I would support these changes whether in a sov holding alliance or not.
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:11:00 -
[229]
So, this changes nothing. POS get fuelled by JF, ships get hauled by Carrier, and force is projected by Super Carriers.
The average scrub gets into a huge fleet to move around anyway, so nothing different there ...
And most smart players will be making their ISK in empire anyway, so, um.
Yeah, changes absolutely nothing
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Admiral Rufus
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:13:00 -
[230]
haha this is amazing, looking forward to this opening up nullsec more
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Forlorn Wongraven
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:13:00 -
[231]
About time. ____________________
Lord Makk > I swear to god if there is a saviour, his name is Forlorn.
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:14:00 -
[232]
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:15:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Kuar Z'thain So.... Goonfleet Blackops didn't camp a set of jump bridges to the point that the hostiles actually offlined them?
I guess bridges are too easy. That why you definitely cannot in any way deploy an interdiction bubble 300 off the tower. Nope, no sir. Can't sit a ****ton of recons on that buble outside of tower range either.
There was absolutely no way of preventing people from using bridges.
/sarcasm
God you people are dumb. You too CCP.
true you can camp but with nc intel channels you get like 1-2 kills then everyone warps to the moon at zero or bounces to avoid the bubble or uses another jump bridge route to completely avoid the system
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TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:15:00 -
[234]
1jb per system...
Seriously...
It's like saying a bullet to the head will cure a headache.
-----
Will this give more small scale PvP in 0.0? In a few select places - yes it will (curing that headache)
In the grand scheme of things it won't do much in that regard however.
Instead (and this is the blowing of your head part) it will favor the large alliances, who has the logistics to simply plop down another JB next door.
Smaller alliances/groups gets screwed. Way to encourage smaller groups into 0.0... You know, for that "smaller warfare" stuff.
It adds even more of a logistics burden to 0.0 (regardless the larger fuel bays, it's still extra bays that needs to be maintained) - More POS's to maintain etc.
Meaning even less of an incentive to go to 0.0.
The large power blocks can handle this (grudgingly) - The smaller ones will proportionally get hurt a lot more.
This change does not _in the grand scheme of things_ achieve the effect you think - Quite the opposite.
---
If you *really* want to go the full mile, then revert to how 0.0 was before RMR (JB and gate wise).
Then you *might* achieve your goal.
BIG Lottery |
Ikoma Sunblazer
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
Hey Vuk m8 why so mad you didn't disagree with these changes in the last csm minutes:
Originally by: CSM Minutes The CSM was somewhat divided on how aggressive CCP should be with any nerfing. However, one CSM suggested, with respect to the nerfing of jump bridges, ôget rid of them.ö
Greyscale: ôAnyone disagree with that?ö
CSM response varied between ôNope,ö ôNahö and a simple ôNoö.
Greyscale: ôSweet!ö û meaning that option will then not be discarded when the topic of jump bridges will be on CCPÆs table.
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Cadiz
Caldari EXTERMINATUS. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 -
[236]
You'll be doing something to allow us to remove existing JB upgrades from ihubs with this change, right?
Right? ------ Exterminatus! "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence." |
TheNewEclipse
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 -
[237]
this is crap. ccp get ur head on straight. ur essentually runing what alot of ppl have worked hard and paid lots for.
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Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:16:00 -
[238]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe JB MAP
This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh
You should be using this map instead. Much better:
http://nc-jb-map.appspot.com/
--
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Woodywilson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:17:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses So, this changes nothing. POS get fuelled by JF, ships get hauled by Carrier, and force is projected by Super Carriers.
The average scrub gets into a huge fleet to move around anyway, so nothing different there ...
And most smart players will be making their ISK in empire anyway, so, um.
Yeah, changes absolutely nothing
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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WilliamMays
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:17:00 -
[240]
I am amazed at how quickly you impliment the bad ideas, without even thinking through all the side effects; but continue to ignore quality feedback and suggestions. This is obviously your method of preventing the defenders from jumping in a blob of capitals on the BS fleet attacking a cyno jammer. What do you say about rorquals entering cyno jammed refinery systems; but then it might be a fleet of battle rorqs, right? Is gate camping CCP's intended endgame pvp; I dont recall the epic marketing video of 20-30 highly skilled veterans waiting for the single industrial to uncloak after jumping. No, thats right, the game is shown as a great empire fighting against another great empire. You seem to be doing everything you can to take the game in the opposite direction.
Since the last big 0.0 nerf was accompanied by a mission buff mainly for hi sec, why not continue this trend? You should add level 6 missions, with garaunteed faction spawns and frequent officers, to +0.8 and higher systems, and make them best run in t1 cruisers.
Better yet, pull your heads out of that dark hole between your but cheeks and try playing different parts of the game before you decide "how it should be"
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:17:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Admiral Rufus haha this is amazing, looking forward to this opening up nullsec more
Its not opening up anything, it just makes 0.0 alliances more dependent on caps/supercaps and multiple accounts.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:18:00 -
[242]
Can I haz a spool up timer for cynos and a nerf(weakness) to supercarriers while you're at it, since you're currently in the mood for granting wishes?
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:18:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 18:20:30 From my april fools post to my corp:
Quote: Jump Bridges
Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.
Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or û by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor û at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.
To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second ôcharge upö timer added before your ship is being sent through.
Edit: The above was taken from an april fools post to my corp's forum, detailing changes that they'd never get.
The rationale for the above design is as follows: * It allows everyday logistics to be performed just as easily as today, if not easier. Simple ship movement no longer requires logistics people to constantly refuel the bridges * It slows down mass-fleet movement, with a mechanic that is understandable to players. * It allows smaller gangs to quickly move around with few if any limitations * It allows big fleets to move around, but slowly. * It still allows JB camping, provided that you camp the outgoing side, or dragbubble the POS.
Unfortunately, it would be way too much work for CCP to implement any of those changes, no matter how sensible the might seem.
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David Carel
Caldari Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:19:00 -
[244]
The only thing this'll really cause is that every competent 0.0 corp will have at least one titan in a year used exclusively for logistics.
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Caldari Meatbag
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Caldari Meatbag on 10/05/2011 19:19:56 http://i.imgur.com/V6qIc.png
byebye
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Evelgrivion
Gunpoint Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 -
[246]
Originally by: northwesten man Me and PL agree on something... I been playing this game for 7 years and I think 0.0 got freaking soft.... I still was able to operate in null with out jump bridges for a while.. Can't handle the risk? then leave null!
Oh and people asking for more regions don't be a tool.. Space not even half full ffs.
Eve Online needs more players like you, northwesten.
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John Zorg
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 -
[247]
I don't understand you CCP... there are more important things that need be worked on instead of these nerfs... have you lost touch with the game?
Have you people even been in 0.0 or spoken to people in 0.0....
(Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule)... so jump freighters are also not able to move through jump bridges, yet freighters are??!?
Fix things that are unbalanced like ummmm..... POS guns that can actually do something... Jammers that can actually last more than 5 minutes...
Fix things that are unbalanced... you just unbalancing it even more... Maybe the final solution to the "Fight on lag" is to get people out of 0.0 or to make people stop playing your game...
Use your brains... ffs
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shot4shot
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 -
[248]
CCP you fail HARD[:javascript:insertsmilie('','WebPost','text');!:]
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:20:00 -
[249]
Edited by: Mr LaForge on 10/05/2011 19:20:57 I did some rewrites of the blog:
Quote: WeÆre going to delve back into 0.0 development in the near future and IÆd like to keep you guys in the loop of what weÆre doing. There are going to be a few immediate changes coming out very soon and some changes over the long run.
Short term:
WeÆve been looking into players interacting and how that ties into movement and security. Jump bridges have become a bit too awesome in terms of getting around, so weÆre going to apply a three changes. Basically,if its easy then it needs to be nerfed. ThatÆs not to say youÆre invincible when using jumpbridges, but if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety and we can't have that. That safety is detrimental to interaction which most people want to avoid. If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against because making it harder for people is what we're after. On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out now, since thats coming in the next expansion.
The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge because we feel that it would be too easy to avoid camps.
The second and third changes will go in next month, with the main patch. We will be limiting the number of jumpbridges you can have in a system to one. We want to make logistics more difficult for people who don't ahve access to jump freighters and other large logistical tools. We would suggest you start reconfiguring your jumpbridge network as soon as possible to take advantage of this new feature.
Hopefully, this will better balance the rewards of fast travel with the risk of getting caught on the way. So youÆll still be able to use jumpbridges (for now), but every jumpbridge link adds a normal gate jump too. Anyway, thatÆs short term.
Long term:
WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, because we'll be working on Incarna for a very long time and this will be a useful distraction from that. I think the community as well as CCP feels that 0.0 is in need of a bit of a nerf, so thatÆs what weÆll do. The starting point for that is identifying 0.0s Strengths and developing guidelines for what 0.0 ôshouldö be according to the laws of communism. Luckily, the CSM will be joining us this month so the players are adequately represented. WeÆll have several sessions with them and hopefully they will be able to contribute to our goal of killing 0.0. To give you a quick peek at the type of topics weÆre looking at when doing this evaluation (in no particular order):
* Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? Answer: No * Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough? Answer: No * Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals? Answer: No * Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov? Answer: No * Are we (CCP) happy with movement/player interaction? Answer: No. We want it to hurt.
We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today. This particular area of space should offer a lot less opportunities than it does today, and thatÆs what weÆll put in. Good things will come. Anyway, thatÆ all for now. WeÆll keep you updated after the CSM screams at us.
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:21:00 -
[250]
Originally by: WilliamMays Is gate camping CCP's intended endgame pvp; I dont recall the epic marketing video of 20-30 highly skilled veterans waiting for the single industrial to uncloak after jumping. No, thats right, the game is shown as a great empire fighting against another great empire. You seem to be doing everything you can to take the game in the opposite direction.
I think it's been obvious for a long time that CCP doesn't have the slightest clue what direction they want to take the game in.
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Lloyd Loar
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:22:00 -
[251]
*wootles softly* |
SSN 609
Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:22:00 -
[252]
Edited by: SSN 609 on 10/05/2011 19:24:59 I really don't mine the changes.
What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.
Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.
EDIT: Way to nerf JFs as well... they can go through empire gates... but not JBs....
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Ntrails
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:23:00 -
[253]
Sounds like a blast
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:23:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag byebye
Stuff? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Roland 99
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:25:00 -
[255]
This will lead to even more supers as well as making logistics in nullsec even worse than they were.
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:25:00 -
[256]
Originally by: SSN 609 I really don't mine the changes.
What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.
Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.
Don't worry, it'll be all over and you'll be evacing your stuff long before these changes go live.
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Inora Aknaria
Valkyr Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 -
[257]
I support this change.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 -
[258]
Originally by: SSN 609 Edited by: SSN 609 on 10/05/2011 19:24:59 I really don't mine the changes.
What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.
Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.
EDIT: Way to nerf JFs as well... they can go through empire gates... but not JBs....
so they were just supposed to wait for all battles for sovereignty in eve to be at a standstill? Sorry, theyre not here to develop and launch patches on YOUR schedule...
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Taki Gemel
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:26:00 -
[259]
Originally by: SSN 609 I really don't mine the changes.
What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.
Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.
don't worry im sure this war will be over before the changes roll out 8-)
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ReK42
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 -
[260]
I'm sorry but this is a horrible change. It's a perfect example of trying to fix something that isn't broken. As a logistics dude who spends a lot of time fueling bridges, I thank you for the capacity increase but I would much rather this change didn't happen, capacity and all.
Denying access to ships with jumpdrives is really not necessary. Other than being a stupid pilot, the only reason to bring a cap ship through a bridge is if the bridged system is cyno jammed. Removing this ability severely hurts the defender by removing this advantage.
That's not too bad though, I wouldn't actually care too much about this change if that's all it was. The change to allowing only a single bridge is nothing but a bad decision, however. You say that it is needed because JBs make nullsec travel too safe but that simply doesn't matter.
Firstly, JBs are already less safe than gates due to the fact that you can't go through them if you are tackled. This is offset by the presence of protective POS guns but that is something that can easily be circumvented (and often is) with cloaky recons and drag/pull bubbles.
Secondly, JBs are one of the major factors that keep an alliance together. Being in TEST and having just moved into Fountain, this region was a complete pain in the ass to move around in without bridges. None of our major industry really got into swing until they were up and we had a lot of trouble with small 1-4 man gangs camping our pipe systems. Nerfing them should not at all be taken lightly and you need to look at input from people who actually live in nullsec and work with these bridges daily.
Thirdly, this will greatly increase the cost of setting up and maintaining a bridge network. The advanced logistics upgrades are a royal pain in the ass to install. For a large alliance, the cost is negligible but, due to the fact that they cannot fit in a jump freighter, the logistics of getting them and any other level 5 upgrade out of the high sec seed stations and safely into nullsec is a pure nightmare and pretty much requires multiple titan bridges. By effectively doubling the number of these upgrades required you are making it much more difficult for alliances to set up these networks. This additional difficulty may end up being prohibitive for smaller alliances.
Lastly, this change will not have the effect you want. You said this is being done to promote player interaction but it will do the exact opposite. Without the ability to create cross-region chained bridge networks such as the eye of terror, which would essential double in length in terms of jumps needed to cross it, moving fleets of any size, from terrible lag-inducing blobs to small 10-20 man recon gangs, into combat areas will become many times more difficult. It also severely affects an alliance's ability to defend its space for the same reasons: more jumps means a longer response time for home defense fleets which means more chance for the reds to get away and less chance of player interaction (ie, a fight).
If you want to fix nullsec, start with fixing bugs like the overview bug that will randomly show blues as neutrals. That bug has gotten dozens of people killed.
This, combined with your recent anomalies nerf, will result in people abandoning nullsec en masse. Since the only reason myself and many, many other pilots still play this game is the people found in our alliances, people leaving nullsec means people leaving this game.
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 -
[261]
So the DRF and allies are the new BOB eh? Looks like CCP supports RMT, Botting, and DDOSing.
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StoneRhino
Ramm's RDI Tactical Narcotics Team
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 -
[262]
Oh Hi, I have an absolutely brilliant solution. Ok, ready?
Roll the game back to Pre-Red Moon Rising.
No dreads, No outposts, No bridges, No capitals, No frieghters, and all you had to do was hide in a station that nobody could ever take from you.
Lets just roll it back.
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Abramul
Gallente StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:27:00 -
[263]
Edited by: Abramul on 10/05/2011 19:29:53 I would suggest that you allow one JB and one anchorable gate (no fuel, no POS, anyone can use it) per system; would allow better connectivity, at the cost of bringing hostiles closer.
(Personally, this change won't really affect me; I just use a bomber for getting to and from rally systems, so a few gates won't be an issue)
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Bryan Havoc
The Safe House
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:28:00 -
[264]
Originally by: StoneRhino Oh Hi, I have an absolutely brilliant solution. Ok, ready?
Roll the game back to Pre-Red Moon Rising.
No dreads, No outposts, No bridges, No capitals, No frieghters, and all you had to do was hide in a station that nobody could ever take from you.
Lets just roll it back.
+1 Like
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Archiebald Hornby
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:28:00 -
[265]
Even as a sov holder and someone that hates being run around by Enemy fleets using JB's, this is stupid.
I agree with the jump drive change though.
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Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 -
[266]
A baby-step in the right direction, just like the anomaly weighting with trusec. Unfortunately these are such pitifully small changes in isolation and nowhere near far-reaching enough to make 0.0 the fascinating prospect that is needs to be.
CCP appears to have lost the ability to surprise and delight us and instead wheels out minor tweaks to a broken universe. What eve needs is bold and revolutionary changes.
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Caldari Meatbag
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag byebye
Stuff?
will be deleted... over 1 bil liquid isk, multiple T2 ships, a T3 will all be destroyed...
both 30 and 40 mil skill point characters will be terminated too.
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 -
[268]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
scumbag CCP: Break 0.0, plan to fix it in 9 months. |
Kaldirov
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 -
[269]
I think this a very nice change. Never understood why the safe way to travel existed in 0.0. No one likes to travel but why should it be safer in null than in the rest Eve?
Understand why NC is raging because they are already in a downward spiral hehe
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clone667
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 -
[270]
stop "trying" to help players in 0.0 your ****ing more off than you are helping, you should have known this by now, FFS.
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Inanna NiKunni
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:29:00 -
[271]
This is actually good stuff +1
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 18:20:30 From my april fools post to my corp:
Quote: Jump Bridges
Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.
Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or û by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor û at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.
To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second ôcharge upö timer added before your ship is being sent through.
Edit: The above was taken from an april fools post to my corp's forum, detailing changes that they'd never get.
The rationale for the above design is as follows: * It allows everyday logistics to be performed just as easily as today, if not easier. Simple ship movement no longer requires logistics people to constantly refuel the bridges * It slows down mass-fleet movement, with a mechanic that is understandable to players. * It allows smaller gangs to quickly move around with few if any limitations * It allows big fleets to move around, but slowly. * It still allows JB camping, provided that you camp the outgoing side, or dragbubble the POS.
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Kearl
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:30:00 -
[272]
nom nom nom nom nom
Looks like sharing our sphere technology with CCP is paying off.
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Dinsdale Pirannha
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:30:00 -
[273]
I think one of the points that people are missing is that CCP does not care about the small percentage of people (lets face it, NC/DC is like 12-17% of all accounts in the game) that live in 0.0. Their goal is to clearly wipe out the super-alliances, clearing the way for smaller alliances to grow.
They have recognized that given the attack on NC by DRF and their prostitutes, this is the perfect time to implement this change to help with the attack against NC.
The marketing people at CCP have said "hey, we will lose a chunk of subscriptions over this, but we will long-term gain more new players and subscriptions as more people will try 0.0, and realize they need multiple accounts to survive in 0.0"
Now, of course, once DRF and their prostitutes get done with NC, the russians will control most of 0.0. But hey, not a problem for CCP, since the russians will continue to increase their subscriptions as they need more bot accounts since they have so much more space to deal with.
Further PL and their ilk will continue, as there will still be low sec corps, wormhole corps, and these new little alliances to obliterate.
Now, the one caveat will be that the new little alliances will have to rent space from DRF, and buy DRF material, and DRF RMT ISK.
It will be a fundamental change in 0.0, but ultimately CCP wins because there will be more accounts. Will they increase the amount of long term subscription holders, of course not. But they will increase the amount of transient subscriptions, at least for the medium term.
I guarantee the moves by CCP the last few months are clearly being vetted through the marketing and accounting teams, to see if it improves cash flow and profits long term.
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Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:30:00 -
[274]
Just wanted to clear some stuff up. CCP did talk to the CSM, some of whom were in favor of this change and some of whom were not. I will let the other CSM members speak for themselves, but personally, I am in favor of this change. I think it will bring more small gang PvP opportunities for both roaming and defensive gangs, which is a good thing. Two step for CSM6 - http://twostep4csm.blogspot.com/ |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:30:00 -
[275]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement
Sending capital ships through jumpbridges was a very bad idea and it is very good that this nonsense stuff is removed as soon as possible.
It is funny how the biggest blobbers are crying and whining the loudest.
Seems to me that CCP is finally doing something right.
A pity that the JB and titan portals didn't get removed completely.
But at least a first step into the right direction!! |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:31:00 -
[276]
Originally by: Sister Bliss A baby-step in the right direction, just like the anomaly weighting with trusec. Unfortunately these are such pitifully small changes in isolation and nowhere near far-reaching enough to make 0.0 the fascinating prospect that is needs to be.
CCP appears to have lost the ability to surprise and delight us and instead wheels out minor tweaks to a broken universe. What eve needs is bold and revolutionary changes.
When you're starving, a cookie isn't as good as a steak, but it's still a cookie.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Da'Evil'One
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:32:00 -
[277]
stop making 0.0 less inviting, you are not doing anything to benefit us anymore, one jb per system is a lame way to make pilots waste time flying around.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:33:00 -
[278]
Originally by: SSN 609 Edited by: SSN 609 on 10/05/2011 19:24:59 I really don't mine the changes.
What I do mind is that CCP put these effects with little to no notice during one of the biggest SOV battles in EVE, and to the complete favor of one side.
Please don't even tell me that you guys are "impartial" again. Not that I should be surprised after the BOB T2 BPO scandal.
EDIT: Way to nerf JFs as well... they can go through empire gates... but not JBs....
Can't help it you're the one on the defensive side :shobon:
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:33:00 -
[279]
Originally by: Shawna Gray Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 18:58:47
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)
I'm sure there will be a lot more pvp now that subcaps will be even more irrelevant than they already are.
Subcaps? Irrelevant?
Explain to me how you take down cyno jammers (and defeat the defending fleets) in your supers if you can't enter the system? Oh right.. you can't.
The main difference to large fleets is that NC can't mobilize 20k faildrakes from 15 regions away within 15 minutes without at least presenting the attackers a juicy target on the way (for example before the faildrakes from whatever random scrub alliance meet up with their "motherblob").
For small scale it changes a lot: suddenly 0.0 will actually have trafic again that isn't defended by POS guns (which are no danger to your much-mentioned supers but will screw up any small support fleet if they try to gank people on a JB POS).
So actually the change increases the value and usfulness of support ships.
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:33:00 -
[280]
You want a dramatic change that will improve PVP?
---> remove local <---
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Seriphyn Inhonores
Gallente Eleutherian Guard
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:33:00 -
[281]
Going back to review 0.0 AGAIN and still nothing for lowsec or FW? ------------ Lum Gen Seriphyn Inhonores FDU Commanding Officer, Eleutherian Guard |
Yulinki Atavuli
Minmatar Innovia Innovia Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:33:00 -
[282]
I'm not an expert on the jump drive system. But, from what i see it's not all as bad as people make it out to be. they just want 0.0 to be more risky. like it should be. you can still have a JB network. but, you just have to have the next JB in the next system. so you run the risk of getting gate camped like you would in low sec.
stop crying and deal with it. if you live in 0.0 you should be used to being in a risky environment.
have blues watch the normal gates in between JBs. problem mostly solved.
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Bryan Havoc
The Safe House
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:33:00 -
[283]
Originally by: Da'Evil'One stop making 0.0 less inviting, you are not doing anything to benefit us anymore, one jb per system is a lame way to make pilots waste time flying around.
Why would you want to fly in a game where you fly a spaceship amirite?
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maniac69uk
FACTS on EVE
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:34:00 -
[284]
another case of CCP messing it up for the smaller alliances. The last nerf took the isk away from smaller alliances and handed it to the bigger groups. This nerf will make it impossible for small alliances to fight when large ones invade several sectors.
Come on CCP think about what you are doing. I know of a few small alliances that can no longer work in null because of the mess you are making. You were supposed to be making null BETTER for people, but you are just handing it over to the big alliances.
---------------
Put a donk on it |
Old Servant
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:34:00 -
[285]
fail idea is a fail idea. fail patch is a fail patch.
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ClawClawBite
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:34:00 -
[286]
It's obvious that CCP wants to break up the large NC/DC powerbloc.
It's puzzling that they want to do it by boring 20,000 players to death.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:34:00 -
[287]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 19:35:22
Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha I think one of the points that people are missing is that CCP does not care about the small percentage of people (lets face it, NC/DC is like 12-17% of all accounts in the game) that live in 0.0. Their goal is to clearly wipe out the super-alliances, clearing the way for smaller alliances to grow.
Wiping out super alliances with a change that makes sov holders even more reliant on caps and supercaps? I think not.
Its the grunts, single account players and low sp pilots that will get screwed again.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:35:00 -
[288]
Originally by: ClawClawBite It's obvious that CCP wants to break up the large NC/DC powerbloc.
It's puzzling that they want to do it by boring 20,000 players to death.
This has nothing to do with the NC. It will only affect alliances in sov space.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Skanthra
Minmatar Bath and Body Works Bed Bath and Beyond
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:36:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag Edited by: Caldari Meatbag on 10/05/2011 19:19:56 http://i.imgur.com/V6qIc.png
byebye
OMG DONT DO IT WAIT PLEASE!!!
you forgot to give me your stuffz! |
StoneRhino
Ramm's RDI Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:36:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Dinsdale Pirannha I think one of the points that people are missing is that CCP does not care about the small percentage of people (lets face it, NC/DC is like 12-17% of all accounts in the game) that live in 0.0. Their goal is to clearly wipe out the super-alliances, clearing the way for smaller alliances to grow.
Wow, if that isnt trolling, I dont know what is. Thats like saying alienware is the best PC ever. I'm LOL'ing at all the finger pointing.
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SSN 609
Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:37:00 -
[291]
Originally by: Two step Just wanted to clear some stuff up. CCP did talk to the CSM, some of whom were in favor of this change and some of whom were not. I will let the other CSM members speak for themselves, but personally, I am in favor of this change. I think it will bring more small gang PvP opportunities for both roaming and defensive gangs, which is a good thing.
Your dreaming. Instead you will see massive subcap fleets that are taking SOV since it will be the only way to take or defend sov... Not to mention that defense of SOV is a losing battle since it completely supports the attacker.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:37:00 -
[292]
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag byebye
Stuff?
will be deleted... over 1 bil liquid isk, multiple T2 ships, a T3 will all be destroyed...
both 30 and 40 mil skill point characters will be terminated too.
gunna go find the nearest high rise and defenestrate yourself too? i mean theres overreactions and then theres OVERreactions...
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:37:00 -
[293]
Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf bridges AFTER you've fixed nullsec industry?
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Meno Theaetetus
Wildly Inappropriate Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:37:00 -
[294]
I missed the bit where the people living in nullsec were identified as the problem that needed to be fixed. That entire list of 'developments' are actually measures put forward to make the residents of 0.0's lives harder. Just who's game exactly are you trying to improve.
Why don't you concentrate on making the game better by listening to what the community wants, null sec does not want this. If your doing it to improve the game for people in empire and low sec, why don't you improve empire and low-sec, rather than systematically destroying null sec.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:38:00 -
[295]
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag byebye
Stuff?
will be deleted... over 1 bil liquid isk, multiple T2 ships, a T3 will all be destroyed...
both 30 and 40 mil skill point characters will be terminated too.
Can you please fraps it? Just so we can see just how angry you are with CCP.
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StoneRhino
Ramm's RDI Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:38:00 -
[296]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: ClawClawBite It's obvious that CCP wants to break up the large NC/DC powerbloc.
It's puzzling that they want to do it by boring 20,000 players to death.
This has nothing to do with the NC. It will only affect alliances in sov space.
Thank you! This I can agree on.
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Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:38:00 -
[297]
From purely a software development perspective...
#1 Things that make routine tasks for your users easy = good #2 Things that make routine tasks for your users a PIA = bad
This is the latter. If you have them, let hem work. There are plenty of fights and kills at Jump Bridges today. Go ask some of the better small-gang PVPers in Agony, PL, Rote, etc.
Btw, this simultaneously makes supercaps even more powerful, as HICs responding to them (the only subcap worth anything against them, btw) will now take twice as long to respond.
And seriously: this is going to consume thousands of player-hours just to remap the bridges. See #2 above. --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:39:00 -
[298]
Originally by: Ravcharas Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf bridges AFTER you've fixed nullsec industry?
Wait, we're trying to make sense now?
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Indestructible Solider
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:40:00 -
[299]
how many times can i say this is not a good idea, mostly the JB part.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:40:00 -
[300]
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus I missed the bit where the people living in nullsec were identified as the problem that needed to be fixed. That entire list of 'developments' are actually measures put forward to make the residents of 0.0's lives harder. Just who's game exactly are you trying to improve.
Why don't you concentrate on making the game better by listening to what the community wants, null sec does not want this. If your doing it to improve the game for people in empire and low sec, why don't you improve empire and low-sec, rather than systematically destroying null sec.
Every single entity in eve except the NC wants this. It has been posted about countless times and brought before the CSM where there was no complaint about this issue being addressed.
Brasts |
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Mara Kashuken
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:40:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Karl Mort Dear CCP: While changes to 0.0 reflect your commitment to improvements in the game, I would recommend to seriously listen to CSM
you mean the NC-dominated CSM, who was blatantly ignored for the better of the game? I actually, for once, agree with CCP on ignoring the CSM. CCP realized that if they wanted to save their game, and make it appeal to small gang PVP, they needed to make this change, regardless of what some unpaid, self-centered windbags want changed.
Cause this totally breaks up the 120+ supercap blobs that are supported by hundreds of BS and T3s. Definitely helping small gang PvP.
Or wait, is camping gates and ganking single ships your idea of "small gang PvP?" I guess you're right then. And I guess I need to buy some more SeBos for my hurricane
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:40:00 -
[302]
Quote: gunna go find the nearest high rise and defenestrate yourself too?
Damn Stallion, you're learning some big words dude! Well, keep up your studies.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:41:00 -
[303]
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus I missed the bit where the people living in nullsec were identified as the problem that needed to be fixed. That entire list of 'developments' are actually measures put forward to make the residents of 0.0's lives harder. Just who's game exactly are you trying to improve.
Why don't you concentrate on making the game better by listening to what the community wants, null sec does not want this. If your doing it to improve the game for people in empire and low sec, why don't you improve empire and low-sec, rather than systematically destroying null sec.
Improving PL's game ofcourse Meno.
Problem is i remember at one point CCP said they wanted Players to go into 0.0 and create massive empires and forge bonds of trust. But now it seems like both those things arent what they wanted at all
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:41:00 -
[304]
Edited by: Purrp Ledone on 10/05/2011 19:41:58
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
Every single entity in eve except the NC wants this.
Then why do we only see Pandemic Legion supporting it?
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Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:42:00 -
[305]
Do you actually like shooting structures without a fight? Because that's the more likely result at this point. Alliances will necessarily contract into teeny-tiny spaces, or they'll be so spread out (e.g. Test, -FA-, Goons) that they'll have trouble mobilizing a large enough group to actually go fight.
Timezone ping-pong ftw. --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
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SSN 609
Amarr The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:42:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus I missed the bit where the people living in nullsec were identified as the problem that needed to be fixed. That entire list of 'developments' are actually measures put forward to make the residents of 0.0's lives harder. Just who's game exactly are you trying to improve.
Why don't you concentrate on making the game better by listening to what the community wants, null sec does not want this. If your doing it to improve the game for people in empire and low sec, why don't you improve empire and low-sec, rather than systematically destroying null sec.
Every single entity in eve except the NC wants this. It has been posted about countless times and brought before the CSM where there was no complaint about this issue being addressed.
This coming from an entire alliance based on not having any sov or using JBs...
As for the complaints... well maybe 0.0 people actually have something to do other then whine about empire and how 0.0 is too tough.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:43:00 -
[307]
Originally by: Two step Just wanted to clear some stuff up. CCP did talk to the CSM, some of whom were in favor of this change and some of whom were not. I will let the other CSM members speak for themselves, but personally, I am in favor of this change. I think it will bring more small gang PvP opportunities for both roaming and defensive gangs, which is a good thing.
You don't spend much time in 0.0 do you? Gangs always work the same, a red gang comes in and ganks some hulks, some industrials, or some noobs trying to salvage. Blues form gang to fight. Both gangs end up running around the region for an hour or two till the reds just run away. Neither end up fighting each other.
Otherwise it's: Large blob invades, starts shooting TCUS, towers, and stations, large blob responds. Attackers drop caps, defenders do the same, attackers drop supers, defenders do the same, attackers drop titans, defenders do the same, whoever has more of the big ships wins.
Now its going to be: Reds camp gates in cloakies, defenders cant do a damn thing.
For fleet fights: Reds invade, attack JB first, everyone cynos in Supers, whoever has more wins.
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Thanael
Gallente 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:43:00 -
[308]
While you are at it, you should make supercaps more powerful to make 'average joe' player even more irrelevant. Triple health and jumprange should do it? Also some more dps for the poor Nyx.
This is ******ed, you speak about how you want more people in nullsec, then keep introducing changes that reduce the quality of life of the GRUNT who makes up 90% of population and 10% of force projection. Also great job on giving a lot of heads up and trying to not interfere in a massive conflict...
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Smulders
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:44:00 -
[309]
CCP is decided what this game needs more of: MORE ****ING TRAVEL TIME
**** this
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Tetania
Minmatar United Systems Navy
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:44:00 -
[310]
Long term player first time poster (well nearly)
Registered in 2002 played highsec for a year moved to nullsec.
I can honestly say that the change proposed here serve no one.
They just serve to make day to day life in nullsec harder for individual pilots especially new pilots who do not fly caps or dual / triple box their own scouts. Raising the entry point and making life hard for nullsec players is not how you grow your user base and expand nullsec.
It is how you destroy it.
Titan bridges will still exist for strategic OPs and force projection. Roams and pitch fork home defense are the only PVP you will influence.
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Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:45:00 -
[311]
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag will be deleted... over 1 bil liquid isk, multiple T2 ships, a T3 will all be destroyed...
both 30 and 40 mil skill point characters will be terminated too.
You should probably format your hard drives and burn down your house/apartment as well. You never know what nefarious means CCP has implemented to ensure you stay subscribed. ___
Chaotic Dreams |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:45:00 -
[312]
Wow, the emo-splosion here is fantastic. Who knew so many whiners and carebears were lurking in sov-space? :)
It's been asked already, but for all of you that are rage-quitting, can I have your stuffs?
Apparently you have lots of it that you can no longer move around, so I'll take it off your hands...
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sinfulangel
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:45:00 -
[313]
Bravo CCP, Bravo!!
If I can't have my wish of seeing them deleted all together this is a great start!
-Sin
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fanaka
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:46:00 -
[314]
bunch of no life ****s whining about a computer game, get a ****ing grip
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:46:00 -
[315]
Edited by: Crias Taylor on 10/05/2011 19:47:34 I'm ok with this, but please give us 2 months to remap the network. It takes 2 months almost to sov tick.
Also please move level 4s to low sec or lower only.
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R0ot
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:46:00 -
[316]
Awesome idea for the jump bridges, go CCP! ... |
FatFreddy
ANZAC ALLIANCE RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:47:00 -
[317]
Edited by: FatFreddy on 10/05/2011 19:46:57 If only CCP had switched JBs to be fueled by ANGRY POSTING - NC, you could run them forever and ever and ever and ever and
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed a comment that isn't related to guild recruitment.
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:47:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Ravcharas Wouldn't it make more sense to nerf bridges AFTER you've fixed nullsec industry?
Wait, we're trying to make sense now?
A girl can dream.
I predict the same result as always; The medium to small sized alliances will suffer because of the changes implemented to make things easier for medium to small sized alliances. All the while the large and well established sov holding alliances and coalitions have enough resources and manpower to make do anyway.
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Tradegoods
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:48:00 -
[319]
you should make it so you can only have either a jump bridge or cyno gen or cyno jammer in a system not each one
love the changes will make things more fun
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:48:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Ikoma Sunblazer Hey Vuk m8 why so mad you didn't disagree with these changes in the last csm minutes
Vuk was not present at the December summit. And it is important to understand that what CSM was agreeing to was that if CCP came up with a package of changes that made sense, the fact that it included the removal of JBs would not be an instant deal-breaker. We were encouraging CCP to look at the issues with as blank a sheet of paper as possible.
My personal position is that I am neutral on this change, and that I would have been a lot more comfortable if it had been announced after the summit, when CSM would hopefully have a much better feel for CCP's intermediate/long-range plans for nullsec.
That said, some recent posts in our internal forums are encouraging.
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BlueOrca
Gallente FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:48:00 -
[321]
CCP is my hero again!
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MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:48:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: Shawna Gray Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 18:58:47
The main difference to large fleets is that NC can't mobilize 20k faildrakes from 15 regions away within 15 minutes without at least presenting the attackers a juicy target on the way (for example before the faildrakes from whatever random scrub alliance meet up with their "motherblob").
Im in the NC. There are these things called jump clones. When an op is called we tend to JC down to one of our staging systems where our fleet ships are kept. We manipulate the location of our death clone to either reship or suicide home when were done pewing. When we die, we buy another fitted out fleet ship from contracts. If anything, the recent change CCP made where you can remotely destroy jumpclones has made it far easier for us to rapidly formup and move out from whereever we are in the game without ever having to travel anywhere.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:49:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Mara Kashuken Or wait, is camping gates and ganking single ships your idea of "small gang PvP?" I guess you're right then. And I guess I need to buy some more SeBos for my hurricane
...not even going to entertain the rage post of an NC alt too embarrassed to post with his main. If youre unsure of how this affects small gang and gate-to-gate pvp, there's a chance you're also an NC pilot.
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Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:49:00 -
[324]
Guys we're removing the improvements we've made to 0.0 but we'll improve 0.0 in the future for reals okay
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Moses Amos
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:50:00 -
[325]
Rumble, Frenzy, operation nerf jump bridges.
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Tango Cainne
TERRIBLE EMO ALTS REGIME
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:51:00 -
[326]
Originally by: Julia Fistage Mmmmmm... NC tears... please continue to share them with us
Just a heads up, a good portion of those NC bffs I know (myself included) who are fed up with the 0.0 nerfs have, or are in the process of moving back to highsec and have taken up mission griefing and deccing carebear corps.
Attn CSM: By hurting 0.0 you're not punishing all those meanie pvp'ers out there and forcing them to be more civilized. You're frustrating them and asking them to come share your apartment with you. Between this change, and nerfing the money making out there, you're telling tens of thousands of players that they now can't make money, AND have to travel >30 minutes to get a fight. Know what's going to happen? Those players are going to decide that they'll just come to high sec where they can fight pve'ers without having to leave the constellation. Enjoy
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Rashi Nerha
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:52:00 -
[327]
Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
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Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:52:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Dramaticus Guys we're removing the improvements we've made to 0.0 but we'll improve 0.0 in the future for reals okay
Haha who cares I travel by cyno and am hella rich who gives a **** about the rest of EVE later suckas
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Volcaris
Caldari Society Of The Abattoir Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:53:00 -
[329]
Stupid ideas, simply demand stupid responses... Everyong in 0.0... BUBBLES on every gate time...
Shut down all empire to 0.0 travel, unless you live there... screw EMPIRE....
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:53:00 -
[330]
Even NC/DC enemies don't support this, only pubbies and PL. I still ****ing hate you Nulli. Cloaky camping bastards.
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Klausan
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:53:00 -
[331]
Edited by: Klausan on 10/05/2011 19:56:54
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
My friend, are you telling me that there was a time when such things did not exist?
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Dogo Duma
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:54:00 -
[332]
Originally by: Tango Cainne
Originally by: Julia Fistage Mmmmmm... NC tears... please continue to share them with us
Just a heads up, a good portion of those NC bffs I know (myself included) who are fed up with the 0.0 nerfs have, or are in the process of moving back to highsec and have taken up mission griefing and deccing carebear corps.
Attn CSM: By hurting 0.0 you're not punishing all those meanie pvp'ers out there and forcing them to be more civilized. You're frustrating them and asking them to come share your apartment with you. Between this change, and nerfing the money making out there, you're telling tens of thousands of players that they now can't make money, AND have to travel >30 minutes to get a fight. Know what's going to happen? Those players are going to decide that they'll just come to high sec where they can fight pve'ers without having to leave the constellation. Enjoy
Which is a good thing for the game. Things have gotten to stale, and an economy which floats on primary variables of destruction kinda needs it. That too is growing worrysome, see latest QEN.
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Caldari Meatbag
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:55:00 -
[333]
Originally by: War Kitten Wow, the emo-splosion here is fantastic. Who knew so many whiners and carebears were lurking in sov-space? :)
It's been asked already, but for all of you that are rage-quitting, can I have your stuffs?
Apparently you have lots of it that you can no longer move around, so I'll take it off your hands...
i can still move it anywhere in my interdiction nullified cloaky T3... but it seems thats all that will be ingame... gangs and gangs of interdiction nullified T3's. thats CCP's end game for you.
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Larkonis Trassler
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:55:00 -
[334]
I don't quite understand all these NC tears. It's not as if you'll have a JB network to worry about in a month's time.
A change to JBs is long overdue. Whether or not this is the right way to go about it we'll have to wait and see.
Trolls and Tribulations: Musings of a Spaceship Politician |
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 19:55:00 -
[335]
Originally by: Dogo Duma
Which is a good thing for the game. Things have gotten to stale, and an economy which floats on primary variables of destruction kinda needs it. That too is growing worrysome, see latest QEN.
Remove CONCORD. That'd spice things up.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Nobilis Nefas
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:55:00 -
[336]
GO CCP!!!
Awesome JB changes... carebears have had it way too easy in 0.0 for too long!
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Alli Saud Terran
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:56:00 -
[337]
If these changes take effect, they will hurt PvE players and logistics. At least place the jump bridges in the POS so that this doesn't feel like CCP thrives on forcing people to PvP who don't really want to. I can imagine all the travelers not PvP fit getting swarmed by cloakies camping jump bridges.
I'm a paying customer. I come home from work, and I want to PvE because it's easy, and it isn't stressful. On the weekends I'm more apt for PvP action, but how am I supposed to do my evening-after-work PvE sessions when CCP keeps slowing me down. Weak.
Rat, jump bridge, jump bridge, buy missiles, jump bridge, jump bridge, and rat again. Not rat, jump bridge, gate, gate, gate camp, emo-out, play DOD.
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:56:00 -
[338]
Originally by: Dramaticus
Originally by: Dogo Duma
Which is a good thing for the game. Things have gotten to stale, and an economy which floats on primary variables of destruction kinda needs it. That too is growing worrysome, see latest QEN.
Remove CONCORD. That'd spice things up.
I'd leave 0.0 in a heartbeat for that, delicious pubbie tears.
|
SillyBilly
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:57:00 -
[339]
Edited by: SillyBilly on 10/05/2011 19:57:24 Great changes CCP, about time, effort and reward were related again.
Also +rep for having CCP Fallout be the op.
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Larkonis Trassler
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:58:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Alli Saud Terran If these changes take effect, they will hurt PvE players and logistics. At least place the jump bridges in the POS so that this doesn't feel like CCP thrives on forcing people to PvP who don't really want to. I can imagine all the travelers not PvP fit getting swarmed by cloakies camping jump bridges.
Welcome to 0.0.
Trolls and Tribulations: Musings of a Spaceship Politician |
|
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:58:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Ribeye Jaksom This is a fantastic and long needed change. Applause to you CCP.
Im sure you and your corpmate are thrilled.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:58:00 -
[342]
Look at all the PL alts coming out of the woodwork. Hilarious.
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Phoenus
Caldari Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:58:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
Heh.
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Rashi Nerha
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:59:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Alli Saud Terran
I'm a paying customer. I come home from work, and I want to PvE because it's easy, and it isn't stressful. On the weekends I'm more apt for PvP action, but how am I supposed to do my evening-after-work PvE sessions when CCP keeps slowing me down. Weak.
When I come home from work I want to play hello kitty online too.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 19:59:00 -
[345]
HA HA!
|
Sino Sarn
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:00:00 -
[346]
speaking of pubbies and noobs, I'm wondering.
If you have a competent PVPer who has to make two gates to his next JB, and a ****fit noob who must do the same...which will be caught by the PL/Merciless/NCDot/Evoke/Not Found campers?
Camping gates and killing noobs, the new PVP end-game.
|
Shawna Gray
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:00:00 -
[347]
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
|
CheckingAmarr
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:00:00 -
[348]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
This post, was a good post. These changes do nothing to promote small gang pvp. They just promote additional asymmetric pvp. It lessens the value of sov space while not addressing the balance issues of of npc nullsec.
And CCP wants to make it easier for players to move from highsec to sov space? Really? Another step backwards. |
Hyveres
Caldari Resilience. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:00:00 -
[349]
Edited by: Hyveres on 10/05/2011 20:00:34
Originally by: Cellistara Even NC/DC enemies don't support this, only pubbies and PL. I still ****ing hate you Nulli. Cloaky camping bastards.
Well I welcome you to find large numbers of 0.0 players not currently blue to MM who finds that JBs in their current incarnation are "fair & balanced"(just like fox news).
Odds are you wont find them.
There is no "overkill." There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload." |
Immolati
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:01:00 -
[350]
Explain to me why ccp is wasting time on this when I still can't jump to a system with 300 people in it without getting traffic control. This not only is a BS change, it's something that really hurts 0.0 alliances. We spend a lot of time moving around 0.0 because the distances are huge. Where as the distances in empire really are not that far. We regurally need to move 25 jumps for action, where in empire, moving from jita to whatever other location you're moving is often half that. In addition to this it takes quite a while for jb networks to be even availible for setup... Fail, fail, fail! Congrats CCP, you're just screwing up again!
|
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:02:00 -
[351]
Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 10/05/2011 20:00:34
Originally by: Cellistara Even NC/DC enemies don't support this, only pubbies and PL. I still ****ing hate you Nulli. Cloaky camping bastards.
Well I welcome you to find large numbers of 0.0 players not currently blue to MM who finds that JBs in their current incarnation are "fair & balanced"(just like fox news).
Odds are you wont find them.
Plenty in this thread, m8. Can't help you if you can't be bothered to read.
|
Limitanes
Unlimited Blade Works Nulli Tertius
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:03:00 -
[352]
I am okay with these changes, but CCP...please let us remove installed upgrades from ihubs (without, you know, having to unanchor the entire thing and destroy *all* the installed upgrades) when you implement this.
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Larkonis Trassler
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:04:00 -
[353]
Originally by: Immolati Explain to me why ccp is wasting time on this when I still can't jump to a system with 300 people in it without getting traffic control. This not only is a BS change, it's something that really hurts 0.0 alliances. We spend a lot of time moving around 0.0 because the distances are huge. Where as the distances in empire really are not that far. We regurally need to move 25 jumps for action, where in empire, moving from jita to whatever other location you're moving is often half that. In addition to this it takes quite a while for jb networks to be even availible for setup... Fail, fail, fail! Congrats CCP, you're just screwing up again!
How about you reset all those guys in a 25 jump direction? You're not the Soviet Union and you don't need half of Eastern Europe as a buffer.
Trolls and Tribulations: Musings of a Spaceship Politician |
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:04:00 -
[354]
Originally by: Usagi Tsukino
Originally by: Caldari Meatbag will be deleted... over 1 bil liquid isk, multiple T2 ships, a T3 will all be destroyed...
both 30 and 40 mil skill point characters will be terminated too.
You should probably format your hard drives and burn down your house/apartment as well. You never know what nefarious means CCP has implemented to ensure you stay subscribed.
CCP had a patch awhile ago that required the part about formatting your hard drive... --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
|
Lady Go Diveher
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:05:00 -
[355]
Grats CCP, a ballsy change that is long, long overdue.
I imagine it ****es you off no-end that 0.0 - the "great lawless space" - has essentially been turned into fluffy wuffy carebear central.
I can enter pretty much any 0.0 system, observe 5-10 toons grinding anoms an ... wait, wut?
Oh, they've all gone to POS? All 10 of them? Let's just cloak here a moment ...
Maybe 5 minutes ... ?
I'm using a NCP corp toon with no kills to his name ..
15 minutes ...
25 minutes ...
Oh sweet jesus what is this!?
Yeah, you can pretty much do this all day. Do this in NC space and you eventually get someone in local trying to get you to leave. Priceless.
Inject a tiny amount of risk into 0.0 and they all ****ing **** themselves.
Carry on CCP, if you succeed in injecting some *actual* risk back into 0.0 then I'll have mad props for you, especially given the opposition from the player base which whine and whine when you take their risk-free candy.
|
Lord Sinistrus
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:05:00 -
[356]
This change hurts the little guys. The people who own 1 carrier and use it to move around their stuff. I can't get the alliance heads to drop a cynojammer for me to jump into a system, but I can use a jump bridge. Really ccp, this is too much... It seems like you are intentionally targeting the individuals in large corps and alliances and not really hurting the alliances on the whole. Nerf super caps, nerf tech, hurt the man, not the little guy!
|
DruzidelCastro
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:06:00 -
[357]
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Hyveres
Well I welcome you to find large numbers of 0.0 players not currently blue to MM who finds that JBs in their current incarnation are "fair & balanced"
Plenty in this thread, m8. Can't help you if you can't be bothered to read.
woops
|
Martin Mckenna
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:06:00 -
[358]
Originally by: Purrp Ledone Look at all the PL alts coming out of the woodwork. Hilarious.
Its the NC tears i'm finding hilarious.
|
Holdout
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:06:00 -
[359]
Originally by: ReK42
Secondly, JBs are one of the major factors that keep an alliance together. Being in TEST and having just moved into Fountain, this region was a complete pain in the ass to move around in without bridges. None of our major industry really got into swing until they were up and we had a lot of trouble with small 1-4 man gangs camping our pipe systems. Nerfing them should not at all be taken lightly and you need to look at input from people who actually live in nullsec and work with these bridges daily.
This is the funniest thing I've read in weeks on the EVE forums.
This just in: Huge alliance has problem with 1 to 4 man gate camps, expects sympathy.
|
Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:06:00 -
[360]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
This particular area of space should offer a lot more opportunities than it does today, and thatÆs what weÆll put in.
Funny, Greyscale just got done performing life saving amputations on the patient, and now you want to re-attach limbs.
Originally by: Night Epoch One JB per system? I expect a threadnaught.
Regardless, a nerf was needed. Overpowered force projection over vast JB networks is a real problem.
This still doesn't touch the unbalanced Force Projection of Super Carriers. 12.5k DPS that can disappear in 15 minutes. Then reappear at a whim. It would be so cool if the USS Nimitz could do the same thing.
|
|
Akinetopsia
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:07:00 -
[361]
Edited by: Akinetopsia on 10/05/2011 20:07:39
Originally by: penifSMASH IF Y'ALL CAN READ THIS THEN Y'ALL BEEN PWNED
WELCOME TO THE PWNZONE
change thread title to forum **** showcase MEGATHREAD, tia
|
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
|
Sinistrus Fatalis
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 -
[363]
Originally by: CheckingAmarr
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
This post, was a good post. These changes do nothing to promote small gang pvp. They just promote additional asymmetric pvp. It lessens the value of sov space while not addressing the balance issues of of npc nullsec.
And CCP wants to make it easier for players to move from highsec to sov space? Really? Another step backwards.
^this...
|
Hyveres
Caldari Resilience. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Hyveres on 10/05/2011 20:13:47
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Hyveres Edited by: Hyveres on 10/05/2011 20:00:34
Originally by: Cellistara Even NC/DC enemies don't support this, only pubbies and PL. I still ****ing hate you Nulli. Cloaky camping bastards.
Well I welcome you to find large numbers of 0.0 players not currently blue to MM who finds that JBs in their current incarnation are "fair & balanced"(just like fox news).
Odds are you wont find them.
Plenty in this thread, m8. Can't help you if you can't be bothered to read.
Without searching too much I find very few tbh. Most of the unhappy people are from various NC alliances, your alliance, GSF, empire based corps or NPC corps(which makes their 0.0 connections dubious since everyone loves raging from an alt).
PL are spaceless so their joy is ofcourse to be expected but I even see an anzac dude in MM who cheers for the changes(afaik most of the ex IT crowd were positive to nerfing JBs).
There is no "overkill." There is only "open fire" and "I need to reload." |
Rashi Nerha
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:08:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
nerf JBs, nerf supercap production
win / win
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
|
RDevz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:09:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
1) Carriers could carry ships with things other than ammo in their cargo holds. 2) We lived in NPC systems with stations that could do more than one of the following things: Research; Manufacture; Refine. We also sold caracals on the open market. 3) Freighter escort ops, which are slightly less fun than having root canal. |
Klausan
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 -
[367]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
And before that it was about how many dreads you had.
|
Rune Star
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 -
[368]
Edited by: Rune Star on 10/05/2011 20:11:24 Thank God. I think this is a great compromise. 1 JB to a system.
The carebears pooping the bed in this thread for massive fear of getting caught on a gate is hilarious. Poor NC, as if DRK/PL wasn't beating them up enough now they have to restructure their JB network, but probably by the time the patch goes in, they won't have to reorganize that many.
Keep the tears coming, you fuel my desire to post. :)
|
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 -
[369]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
It would be nice if CCP addressed this. The decisions CCP have made demonstrate that they want to deemphasize the nation building aspect of Eve.
|
HungryTooth
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:10:00 -
[370]
If anything ****ed 0.0 up it's giant cabalas of tens of thousands of players that drop 100 pilots on you at moment notice if you try to make do an escalation with a couple of friends, this way they at least have to travel if they want to kill your ship.
|
|
Dramaticus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
nerf JBs, nerf supercap production
win / win
*Titan bridges freighters all over 0.0*
feels good man
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 -
[372]
Originally by: Rashi Nerha
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
nerf JBs, nerf supercap production
win / win
absolutely agree
|
Rashi Nerha
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 -
[373]
Originally by: RDevz
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
1) Carriers could carry ships with things other than ammo in their cargo holds. 2) We lived in NPC systems with stations that could do more than one of the following things: Research; Manufacture; Refine. We also sold caracals on the open market. 3) Freighter escort ops, which are slightly less fun than having root canal.
let me tell you about the jump freighter
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Am I reading this correctly? You claim you have a bug that undresses female avatars???
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:11:00 -
[374]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
Nerf the reprocessing skill tbh. 50% of the material used should be the max recieved if you reprocess anything in this game.
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Rick Starkiller
Intergalactic Serenity Ev0ke
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 -
[375]
It's funny how everybody who is able to jump thru a Gate in 0.0 on their own, welcome this change and everybody else is crying...
|
Lucious Shakiel
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 -
[376]
So, if jump drive capable ships can't use a bridge.....how the hell are we supposed to get these ships in or through a cyno jammed system?
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 -
[377]
Edited by: Crias Taylor on 10/05/2011 20:14:50
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
Honestly? Not many and this will just send us back to cheap alt scout days. I guess you didn't actually play without them.
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Korvin
Gallente Shadow Kingdom Best Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 -
[378]
Nice change. Life is a motion. Gates will be used by locals now and noob scouts will be more needed in 0.0 Sub caps will probably still catch up their cap fleet with a titan bridge anyway, so no big deal here.
_____________ 4th term 5th term
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Lynn Deniera
Caldari The Foreign Legion Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:13:00 -
[379]
I am disappointed that CCP have seem to not fully thought out the implications of these changes - this will harm smaller alliance and individual pilots on the ground while have little to no effect on big coalitions and objective based (big) fleets. (Remember big fleets don't use jumpbriges; they use titans or gate it.)
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Ship Type
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:15:00 -
[380]
In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:15:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Nerf the reprocessing skill tbh. 50% of the material used should be the max recieved if you reprocess anything in this game.
Don't worry, that'll come in the "balancing nullsec economy" part
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MuppetsSlayed
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:15:00 -
[382]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Rashi Nerha Man I wonder how people lived in 0.0 before jumpbridges.
You mean before 0.0 was about how many supercaps you have?
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
The larger alliances have been titan portalling freighters for years. CCP are making it harder for the smaller alliances without titan logistics.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:17:00 -
[383]
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
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noldevin
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:18:00 -
[384]
Edited by: noldevin on 10/05/2011 20:18:59 While you're at it, ban the DRF for botting their way into supremacy.
Or better yet, make more belt rats warp scramble, and remove the log off/disappear timer when warp scrambled. Logging off should never be a valid escape tactic when you're already caught.
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:18:00 -
[385]
So out of so many other choices, the one CCP decided to use is the one that increases tedium for the deep 0.0 dwellers? I mean, look how many options you had:
Option 1: Make the Jump Bridge Array an independent structure, separate from the POS and the Force Field. This would increase the risk as there is no POS to shoot the nuets/hostiles and no nearby forcefield for safety.
Option 2: Make the JB structure visible to all players in the system, this way passing neutrals/hostiles will see right away where the JB is and investigate.
Option 3: Put an effect on a player that is equal to a cooldown which must expire before taking the next JB, or even warping. Not too long, maybe a minute but this will make everyone extend their "risk" period between JB jumps.
Option 4: Take Option 1, 2 and 3 and combine it. But noooooooooo, you need to make it so that travelling into a deep system would equal crossing the breadth and width of the entire empire space.
In addition if you wanted to make 0.0 a better place to live then why the sanctum nerf? Yeah you wanted to make some systems more desirable, well how about tying in your JBs into truesec? If a JB array is in -1.0 system they get a massive range boost(x4), this would have the desired result of the increased conflict. What alliance would not want a smaller and faster supply chain? You know what? You could have taken Option 1, independent JBs, and the truesec idea and combined it into a nice system which would have increased warfare over supply chains and JB control. You could have added Cyno/Wormhole jamming units, similar to blockade units and allowed alliances or roaming groups to deny JB functionality in a system. So many options and so many money sinks and in the end you choose the lame approach, instead of balancing the game by adding to it you just take the easy way out.
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BondGamer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:19:00 -
[386]
Why hold space if you can't have jump bridges? That is the only bonus for sovereignty. Good job CCP removing the one thing people like and saying you will add new stuff in a year.
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Korvin
Gallente Shadow Kingdom Best Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:19:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Lynn Deniera I am disappointed that CCP have seem to not fully thought out the implications of these changes - this will harm smaller alliance and individual pilots on the ground while have little to no effect on big coalitions and objective based (big) fleets. (Remember big fleets don't use jumpbriges; they use titans or gate it.)
Smaller alliances can't afford to have their own space this days, what harm are you talking about? They are renters, and probably will rent a system or two, not enough for a large bridge network anyway. _____________ 4th term 5th term
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Cinexus
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:19:00 -
[388]
Edited by: Cinexus on 10/05/2011 20:22:18
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid Ganking in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our Ganking flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to Ganking, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for Ganking.
You have no slightest idea of what PVP is. You are the stupidest idiot.
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:20:00 -
[389]
Edited by: Crias Taylor on 10/05/2011 20:22:10
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. áPreviously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Don't you think 4 weeks is too short to remap when it takes 6 weeks to sov tick?
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:20:00 -
[390]
Edited by: xttz on 10/05/2011 20:24:19 :qq:
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Pneumon Blaster
Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:20:00 -
[391]
Edited by: Pneumon Blaster on 10/05/2011 20:20:43 Thanks god we don't have our space anymore :)
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Zxmagus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:21:00 -
[392]
Originally by: Sinistrus Fatalis
Originally by: CheckingAmarr
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
This post, was a good post. These changes do nothing to promote small gang pvp. They just promote additional asymmetric pvp. It lessens the value of sov space while not addressing the balance issues of of npc nullsec.
And CCP wants to make it easier for players to move from highsec to sov space? Really? Another step backwards.
^this...
this guy said it better then i could ever say it.
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Zamiq
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:21:00 -
[393]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
I though null sec was the area that is shaped and defined by players. I thought that players have the final say as to how they run their sovereignty? Is that not the main goal of EvE? Lets use another example, a hypothetical one, if a group of players banded together and proclaimed that a specific system in null is free of PvP and that any violator will be dealt with CONCORD style (ignore the logistics involved), would the CCP step in and proclaim that the said group of players is ruining the said "pvp flagship"? How would you deal with that?
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Mylor Torlone
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:21:00 -
[394]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Here I was thinking this was a sandbox. Why do we pay you guys again?
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Ship Type
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:22:00 -
[395]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
You do understand that null sec was the place you could play that was pretty safe from PVP though, right? Have you played this game before? Not everyone likes PVP. In fact, I'd say the vast majority of players actively avoid it.
Sure, you can go to empire, but how do you avoid PVP in empire when you're playing with friends and you're war dec'd? Join the NPC corp again?
I also don't consider ganking haulers on gates as real pvp, but that's how people treat it.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:22:00 -
[396]
Edited by: Bobbeh on 10/05/2011 20:22:54
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
You Nerf 0.0 but yet do nothing against entities that RMT, Spend CASH to have other alliances disband, Pay their Pilots in Real Cash, and Illegally DDoS Legitimate websites. So we bad together as friends to defend our territory, Bad nc BAD. But its ok to DDoS the enemy ts and servers and forums, then pay off their members with Real cash, then RMT your way to a massive super cap fleet and invade the nc Cool story Sound. CCP should really look into that sh*t cause it ruins the game and out of game experiences, and is all completely against the EULA.
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Tango Cainne
TERRIBLE EMO ALTS REGIME
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:22:00 -
[397]
Edited by: Tango Cainne on 10/05/2011 20:23:58
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
So you want Nulsec to be Lowsec, lowsec to keep being lowsec, and not make things just a bit easier on huge cooperatives of players that have earned the right to be able to safely move around territory they've had to hold for weeks to get that ability? As an earlier poster just mentioned, what about the sandbox?
Also, the original poster of the post below. Amen my friend.
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MachineGun Matt
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:22:00 -
[398]
Originally by: Sinistrus Fatalis
Originally by: CheckingAmarr
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
Originally by: CCP Fallout WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
This post, was a good post. These changes do nothing to promote small gang pvp. They just promote additional asymmetric pvp. It lessens the value of sov space while not addressing the balance issues of of npc nullsec.
And CCP wants to make it easier for players to move from highsec to sov space? Really? Another step backwards.
^this...
Amen.
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Minigin
YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:24:00 -
[399]
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:24:00 -
[400]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
And mine.
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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|
Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:24:00 -
[401]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests.
The solution is ofcourse to make life more boring in 0.0 and have less pilots there?
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:24:00 -
[402]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:24:00 -
[403]
Quote:
the funny part is, you think that jump bridge logistics have absolutely nothing to do with how quickly and easily supercaps can be built...stay ignorant, my friends
A titan requires 3 freighter loads to build, a supercarrier one. You really think it is much of an issue to get once in a while a titan to bridge a bunch of freighters?
Stays interesting to see that those who think this results in more small gang pvp, apparently mean ganking pve ships and industrials with small gang pvp while outnumbering them 10 to 1, and when they are outnumbered they cry about blobs.
This increases the need to create huge NAP lists, since it decreases ability to defend your space from an opponent that outnumbers you. How some dont get that is beyond my comprehension. Aditionally easy ganks on pve ships might make you come short term, long term it just decreases number of targets, which means less kills for you long term.
I see people claiming that we also said that about anomaly nerf and it didnt happen, well I dont know where they look, but from what I see in our neighbourhood numbers of people in system probably dropped on average with 30-50%. Number of people actually in space dropped FAR, FAR more than that, easily a factor 3-4. Now of course it depends on how much it is on where you look, but the facts stay the same, the number of people actually living in 0.0 hugely decreased, now they need again to make their isk with high sec alts. Which of course CCP likes, but is that really the 0.0 you want? Where people dont actually live?
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Salastil
Gallente ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:25:00 -
[404]
Originally by: penifSMASH IF Y'ALL CAN READ THIS THEN Y'ALL BEEN PWNED
WELCOME TO THE PWNZONE
lmao pwnd yall be pwned :420 every day ccp made us take out the nugs:
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Ceras Phoenix
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:25:00 -
[405]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58 It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
I am curious what statistics you're looking at when you say this. TEST hasn't been involved in a major territorial conflict in months and every week our killboard has been full of billions worth of kills and losses. Granted, those are occasionally high value wardec kills or what have you, but the vast majority of it is in and around Fountain. Does that not happen in the rest of nullsec? How many billions of isk in pvp losses is "enough" for there to be "more opportunity for pvp"?
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mvrck22
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 20:25:00 -
[406]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
He is still right however, simply because EVE is based on destruction rather than creation. Both are present, but too much depends on one, and changing it would require not just amazing game design, but also resources which are not available to EVE as a venture.
Best hope there, is for the balancing act which HAS to follow these changes coming later this year. But hey, that is what you have a CSM for, right?
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Woodywilson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:26:00 -
[407]
Edited by: Woodywilson on 10/05/2011 20:26:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
You put together a paragraph to express what can be summed up in the sentence "We don't have a clue." CCP, the new Flying Labs Software.
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Pajama Sam
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:26:00 -
[408]
Originally by: Minigin
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Originally by: Minigin
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Originally by: Minigin
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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Hanna Magiliska
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:27:00 -
[409]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Jesus Christ. Soundwave, you really are ******ed aren't you?
Give us some numbers. You have the API kill details. Give us PROOF that PVP in nullsec is "boring and lifeless" because frankly from where I'm standing it's pretty alive. Pretty graphs or something because until then, your nullsec players are going to look at this change as the beginning of a massive nerf and then 0.0 will be dead, because everyone will have either gone back to Empire, or quit.
Give us the background behind your reasoning, and for once be god damned truthful. "We want to discourage the blob" - uh huh. So, how many 250 man fleets do you think use jumpbridges on the way to a destination? How many capitals use them?
Honestly, CCP should get all of your alts out of PL and play the game like everyone else.
Until then, I propose we move the fights to highsec and **** off every carebear out there until you pay attention.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:28:00 -
[410]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
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Helen
White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:28:00 -
[411]
Originally by: Purrp Ledone Edited by: Purrp Ledone on 10/05/2011 19:41:58
Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
Every single entity in eve except the NC wants this.
Then why do we only see Pandemic Legion supporting it?
DRF are behind this change! Why those cunning yet stunningly attractive people!
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Minigin
YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:28:00 -
[412]
Edited by: Minigin on 10/05/2011 20:29:21
Originally by: Minigin
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
sam beat me to it =( .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:28:00 -
[413]
Originally by: WilliamMays I am amazed at how quickly you impliment the bad ideas, without even thinking through all the side effects
Didn't you read the blog? They've thought of the side effects and totally plan to fix them in 9 months. |
Martin Mckenna
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:29:00 -
[414]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Bang on! Anything that promotes PVP im for.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:29:00 -
[415]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
Still not helping the issue which is We arent the ones breaking the EULA to win the war. Or committing illegal acts to win. and Yet CCP endorses them and their Russian Masters.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:29:00 -
[416]
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
He is still right however, simply because EVE is based on destruction rather than creation. Both are present, but too much depends on one, and changing it would require not just amazing game design, but also resources which are not available to EVE as a venture.
Best hope there, is for the balancing act which HAS to follow these changes coming later this year. But hey, that is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
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Fintroll
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:31:00 -
[417]
*WOOTLES HARSHLY*
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Maimakterion
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:31:00 -
[418]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Because sitting cloaked on a gate waiting for a lone hauler to pass through is elite PVP, right? No wonder this game's retention rate is so ****.
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Cpt Sobel
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:31:00 -
[419]
I think all words that disagree with the change sum up what I was going to say. Smaller alliances will just get blobbed out and have their junction systems camped
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Damien Klesk
Antiquated.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:32:00 -
[420]
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:32:00 -
[421]
Originally by: Minigin
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
you know minigin, this is the first post of yours ever that I have liked.
-destro Brasts |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:32:00 -
[422]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
Could you comment on the reasoning behind nerfing 0.0 now, and then revamping it "later" rather than a coherent overall change that makes sense and addresses the region in a unified way - instead of this "make bad change, promise fix in six months", especially given CCP's extremely bad record on delivering things promised in advance.
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 -
[423]
Edited by: Innominate on 10/05/2011 20:35:53
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
I like how you totally ignored the last(and most important) section. (Original Post)
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Vilgan Mazran
Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 -
[424]
Awesome changes. Make a lot more sense than either of the extremes I expected CCP to pick between (nothing vs removing completely).
Nicely done, and please feel free to ignore the vocal minority that will sperg all over this thread.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 -
[425]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
I hope CCP is content with having the CSM and their alliances as their subscriber base, because that's all they'll be left with in the end.
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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Spurty
Caldari V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:33:00 -
[426]
Be honest, I wanted jb out of the game completely and utterly with no replacement.
You don't even know how lucky you are with this alteration.
HTFU and live like the rest of us in 0.0, balls to the wall every gate. Not 100 man blue system to 100 man blue system and no gates life you just apparently got fat on.
Fatties this is your next heart attack
One more and we'll be back to small scale, manageable and fun combat as the chaff returns to high sec to cry over it's beer to cowboy music
Fizzt!
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:34:00 -
[427]
Edited by: Zamiq on 10/05/2011 20:34:25
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
Then why out of so many choices you chose the one that increases tedium?
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shadowfire88
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:35:00 -
[428]
The 1 jb per system nerf is good but not letting caps use jump bridges is dumb. It pretty much completely destroys the usefulness of cyno jammers.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:35:00 -
[429]
Guess what Guys They are Saving Tribute Quick Take out their Jabber... DDoS them QUICKLY
Oh snap they switched TS GO GO Down that one aswell we cant win if they are organized.
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LegendaryFrog
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:35:00 -
[430]
Edited by: LegendaryFrog on 10/05/2011 20:36:19
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
If the goal is accessible open world pvp, shouldn't doing something about supercapitals be the top priority? This is a change that has a MINOR potential positive effect on this kind of pvp accessibility, while at the same time having a MAJOR potential negative effect on the same thing(increasing the relative efficiency with which supercapitals can project power and influence with little risk to themselves, except from more supercapitals).
This change should not be released in isolation for a variety of reasons. It needs to packaged with a supercapital nerf and an overall rebalancing of 0.0 living and warfare objectives. Releasing it now, over half a year before you plan to address any of the other issues, will likely leave the game in a worse state for that duration.
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Cheekything
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 -
[431]
So rather than fixing them.... your going to break them even more.
*Commences sarcastic slow clap*
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Helen
White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 -
[432]
Originally by: Bobbeh
Still not helping the issue which is We arent the ones breaking the EULA to win the war. Or committing illegal acts to win. and Yet CCP endorses them and their Russian Masters.
I'm in your servers breaking your hamsters!
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Cpt Sobel
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 -
[433]
Oh and did anyone else notice the only people supporting the change are people who don't hold any sov or the people who just jump supers on top of everyone? No need for jump bridges for either one
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 -
[434]
Using a system gate to access the next jumpbridge in one's own sov space? Seriously?! How do gates even work, what with all those glyphs and buttons and dropdowns and lights and noisesohgodhelp |
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:36:00 -
[435]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
So 24 months from now, what are the chances we'll be begging you guys to please implement the rest of the nullsec tweaks cause you're killing us here?
You know, like with faction warfare, treaties...
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mvrck22
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 -
[436]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Diverge, or divulge? =P
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Spurty Be honest, I wanted jb out of the game completely and utterly with no replacement.
You don't even know how lucky you are with this alteration.
HTFU and live like the rest of us in 0.0, balls to the wall every gate. Not 100 man blue system to 100 man blue system and no gates life you just apparently got fat on.
Fatties this is your next heart attack
One more and we'll be back to small scale, manageable and fun combat as the chaff returns to high sec to cry over it's beer to cowboy music
If you dont like the perks that alliance get then you are already in the perfect place. So dont complain. If you do like the perks then go and earn them. That was the whole point of this game, ability to impact the world, not spend countless hours moving **** in and out.
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sinfulangel
H A V O C Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 -
[438]
Edited by: sinfulangel on 10/05/2011 20:37:49
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
Pure win good sir.
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Minigin
YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 -
[439]
Edited by: Minigin on 10/05/2011 20:38:58 if this thread has shown us anything, it is that jumpbridges have already been more of a headache for ccp than they were worth. i say remove them and be done with it!
ps. i cant get my head around you people who somehow feel you are ENTITLED to something that was introduced 4 years after the release of this game...
there was an eve before jbs there will be one after. .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:37:00 -
[440]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 20:38:17
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
This makes 0.0 even more of a battleground than it already is and not a place you live in. Especially for the normal grunts in an alliance. The only difference is that there is no limit on numbers when it comes to fights.
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Lynn Deniera
Caldari The Foreign Legion Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:38:00 -
[441]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.
There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.
You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.
Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!
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So'rren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:38:00 -
[442]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Which ones were pleased so we know not to vote for them again.
Also note that the CSM isn't representative of EVE and mentioning them does not impress us.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:38:00 -
[443]
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Diverge, or divulge? =P
Divulge, jesus I butchered that.
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Cuddlebear
Caldari Snuggle Soft
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:40:00 -
[444]
Holy goonie/nc rage roflroflroflrofl
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Ohfor Godsake
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:40:00 -
[445]
This is clinically ******ed.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:40:00 -
[446]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Diverge, or divulge? =P
Divulge, jesus I butchered that.
just like you managed to do with 0.0. you sir are clueless
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Insidious
Amarr 0utbreak Outbreak.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:41:00 -
[447]
Edited by: Insidious on 10/05/2011 20:41:18 \o/ resubscribed after a year off partly due to ccp vision last year and players trends because of it \o/ I wont die of old age waiting for the game to get good again
thanks ccp !!!
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Tonemaster B
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:41:00 -
[448]
Hah Hah look at all the people scared to go through stargates !
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:41:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Lynn Deniera
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.
There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.
You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.
Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
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Bring Stabity
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:42:00 -
[450]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Diverge, or divulge? =P
Divulge, jesus I butchered that.
Not the first thing you've butchered today.
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:43:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Minigin Edited by: Minigin on 10/05/2011 20:38:58 if this thread has shown us anything, it is that jumpbridges have already been more of a headache for ccp than they were worth. i say remove them and be done with it!
ps. i cant get my head around you people who somehow feel you are ENTITLED to something that was introduced 4 years after the release of this game...
there was an eve before jbs there will be one after.
Cause some people subscribed to the game after EvE was out for 4 years. These people have done a serious investment into the game and its understandable that they might not like a potential change that will double the time required to move goods/ships. Now, if you dont like these people complaining then fine you can stick with "there was eve before this and this change" but then you must realize that the people who are not happy with the change will leave and this in now way will increase the pvp rations in null.
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Ladie Scarlet
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:43:00 -
[452]
The best part about this thread is all the ~elite~ pvp alliances crowing about how excited they are for an increase in gate camps. I guess if you're not able to actually have a nullsec empire then gatecamping is the next best thing? Congrats I guess...
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:43:00 -
[453]
i shrugged - the changes are obvious and we'll adapt. But I was very disappointed at the lack of balance.
This game has one of the most sophisticated and skilled playerbases on the planet. Its DESIGNED to attracts geeks that normal geeks shun as being too geeky for geekdom. A tiny tiny number of us work for CCP, but most of us couldn't cope with the salary drop to even consider it. You do NOT attract our prime talent. In short, we are better than you.
Leverage that ffs.
Will you NEVER learn as a company that balance is in the eye of the beholder and maybe .. just maybe .. your eye isn't the best beholder.
- cloaks now have a cycle time (I know the code is legacy and very scary, but it IS doable) and thus can use cap - or use fuel (blanced by ship role and mass)
- cloaks give agro
- NPC station services can be TEMPORARILY disabled, auto repair and be assot repped by the residents within if they have high enough standings to that pirate faction
- multiple stations can be built per system, and additional bridges can be built with fully upgraded tier 3 gallente platforms
- npc region systems where the npcs have no station in the constelation can be conquered by the player alliance, but the npcs REALLY want to take them back and are far too hard to solo rat
- level 11 and level 12 anomalies blanced for capitals and supercapitals
and dozens of other ideas that you have on file.
Had you chucked a couple of these in as balance, everyone would be happy. Instead ... *sigh*
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:44:00 -
[454]
Edited by: xttz on 10/05/2011 20:44:18
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
You avoided the key point. Why is this being pushed through alone, and at short notice, rather than as part of a larger balanced set of changes? I'm not against this idea outright, but there should be some incentive to actually still live in conquerable space beyond building broken supercaps and mining broken technetium.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
You're trying to open up 0.0 for low-SP, casual gankers to get experience, and thats cool. But the net result of this change will be pushing out the low-SP, casual residents who don't have the multiple alts to scout their only battleship a few jumps during their lunch break. They will return to empire, and the balance will swing heavily the other direction - the low-SP gankers being torn up by the residents who do have skillpoints, money and expertise.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
CCP Soundwave, more like CCP Captain Obvious. This is not about making fights 'fair' at all. It's about wanting you to provide the incentives to outweigh all the risk you're introducing. Making vague noises about such possible incentives in the distant future is not an acceptable solution to the people you're driving away from their internet space homes.
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Ami Hantaka
Trans-Solar Works
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:44:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Ami Hantaka So 0.0 will no longer be the deep blue safe-zone that it currently is? I approve!
You mean you think adding incentives to NAP more people will decrease the size of the blue-zone? Please explain...
It will still be deep blue, but deep 0.0 space will no longer be the ultimate safe zone.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:44:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Tonemaster B Hah Hah look at all the people scared to go through stargates !
Yea it has nothing to do with increasing traveltime/boredom and making you more dependent on caps/supers.
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Ohfor Godsake
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:45:00 -
[457]
Originally by: Tonemaster B Hah Hah look at all the people scared to go through stargates !
This isn't about that. It's about CCP having an unclear objective which misunderstands the current operation of 0.0, and implementing changes which will not lead to the objective.
You need to understand what you're fixing, and it's clear at this point that CCP doesnt. What with this change and the changes to 0.0 ratting and associated upgrades, there is seriously decreased incentive to hold sov.
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Ship Type
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:45:00 -
[458]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in.
And if you don't like PVP, stay in the rookie corp and in empire. And don't join a private corp because then you'll be war dec'd and then you can't play the game. Also, obviously don't pay someone to move into 0.0 to live there because that's the PVP mecca, apparently.
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:46:00 -
[459]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
We have seen a high level outline that to a great extent outlines the major problems with 0.0 life, from what the goals should be that motivate you to live there, to the major problems that make most players say "Screw this". It's a very insightful outline and I think it would provide the top to bottom overhaul that people almost universally feel should happen. I'm critical as all get out on what 0.0 is, and has become, because it needs a complete enema not tweaking the edges. They get this and if the guiding principles we've seen hold true 0.0 will indeed own once implemented.
What that actually is going to be remains to be seen because details haven't been introduced on any level. Next week we begin discussing this and hopefully my tentative endorsement holds true then.
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Woodywilson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:46:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Maimakterion
Because sitting cloaked on a gate waiting for a lone hauler to pass through is elite PVP, right? No wonder this game's retention rate is so ****.
QFT..............
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:46:00 -
[461]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
You'll probably ban me for saying this but this is the most idiotic load of garbage. Yes JB allow plays to move around gate camps, reds in local, small gangs etc. What is wrong with that they also allow you to form defence fleet to facilitate PVP. They allow you to jump ahead of hostiles when they have run away.
You are seeing JBs from a very narrow and may I say extremely biased view point. JB are what allow 0.0 to be effectively populated, that population brings the PvP you seek. Yes JBs give SOV holders an advantage but if I may re-quote you again.
"You are not entitled to a fair fight...."
Surely that applies to Roaming fleet too!!!!!!!!!!
Finally and most IMPORTANTLY have you ever tried to move a fleet of any size through a gate in 0.0, because if you had you would know that since dominion it has been nigh on impossible because of LAG.
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:47:00 -
[462]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lynn Deniera
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.
There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.
You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.
Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
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Zxmagus
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:47:00 -
[463]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lynn Deniera
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.
There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.
You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.
Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
How about the ability to invest the time of thousands of pilots to take and hold space to then upgrade it to make it easier to defend no wait thats imbalanced CCP better nerf that cause thats unfair.
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ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:48:00 -
[464]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Diverge, or divulge? =P
Divulge, jesus I butchered that.
Similiar to the way you are butchering the game as a whole. The changes this jumpbridge modification would make in my mind are: 1. elevate personal logistics for players in major alliances to capitals as of date of patch release(we are heading in that direction anyway). 2. make alliance/corp logistics proportionately more difficult for smaller 0.0 entities - making 0.0 less dynamic. 3. the supposed increase in pvp you talk about will in reality be ganking of 0.0 pve ships by small gangs of pvp ships on gates. That shift, in conjunction with the reduction of 0.0 isk faucets for joe average pilots is simply a reduction of reward and increase of risk that makes earning 30-50mil+ per hour running missions in empire a better option.
To change 0.0 you need to change the way players interact. That aint happening right now.
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TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:48:00 -
[465]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
The type of players that will benefit from this are the gate campers. And where are they? in lowsec - as thats where the easy prey is. And easy prey is what they want - not "good fights"
Sure there might be a minuscule minority that *does* wan't "good fights" (and thus will move out to 0.0 gate camping instead) - But it's just that, a minuscule minority. While a HUGE part of 0.0 dwellers are getting royally screwed with this one.
It just doesn't add up (to a good change imo.)
BIG Lottery |
Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:48:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Ami Hantaka
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Ami Hantaka So 0.0 will no longer be the deep blue safe-zone that it currently is? I approve!
You mean you think adding incentives to NAP more people will decrease the size of the blue-zone? Please explain...
It will still be deep blue, but deep 0.0 space will no longer be the ultimate safe zone.
It will be just as safe, you just need to use that second account for a noob scout when traveling alone (or just use your cap to move your stuff).
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Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:50:00 -
[467]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lynn Deniera
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. áPreviously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
It's really not as simple as that. Right now it's relatively easy to catch a hostile roaming fleet in your space, because you can catch up via jbs. However as an individual pilot travelling from point A to B on your own; travel is safe.á
There's a difference between good pvp and bad pvp. You're ignoring that distinction. A fleet of a dozen killing a lone pilot travelling is not good pvp; for either party.
You're also ignoring the overall impact. This is a simply more hurt for the average pilot in nullsec - but barely affects big alliances. It's a straight up nerf for normal players, which means less of a reason for average players to go to nullsec, which means less people to have pvp with, making nullsec even more empty and dead.á
Still, hopefully by the end of all these changes we will have a better nullsec, and it's great that you're finally focusing on it again!
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
Nah, I think they will just cloak up. I don't mind these changes but you do seem clueless on some real important issues. Issues that should be addressed with it as these gankes can't and will not be forced into a fight either. I mean unless I'm wrong about low sec not being the pinnacle of pvp.á
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:50:00 -
[468]
The tears they taste great!! I bet 90% of the whiners werent around during the time before jump bridges existed.
You know what we did back in 0.0 before the time of jump bridges in 2007, we had escorts and organized fleets. It was fun, and was also my first experience in 0.0. 45 jumps from K8 in branch to NGM-0k in a thorax guarding two iteron 5's. Was fun, not stinking jump bridges to geminate to drone regions, all 100% had to be there pilots and piloting.
So pretty much, STFU. It isnt that bad, you still have your jump bridges, and can still use freighters with them.
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:50:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Zamiq Cause some people subscribed to the game after EvE was out for 4 years. These people have done a serious investment into the game and its understandable that they might not like a potential change that will double the time required to move goods/ships. Now, if you dont like these people complaining then fine you can stick with "there was eve before this and this change" but then you must realize that the people who are not happy with the change will leave
And they'll be easily and swiftly replaced, by people who embrace the changes.
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Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:51:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ami Hantaka
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Ami Hantaka So 0.0 will no longer be the deep blue safe-zone that it currently is? I approve!
You mean you think adding incentives to NAP more people will decrease the size of the blue-zone? Please explain...
It will still be deep blue, but deep 0.0 space will no longer be the ultimate safe zone.
It will be just as safe, you just need to use that second account for a noob scout when traveling alone (or just use your cap to move your stuff).
You hit the nail on the head. If you can't retain players, force them to have multiple subs to play.
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Lynn Deniera
Caldari The Foreign Legion Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 -
[471]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
I didn't say anything about a fair fight; I just mean that promoting better pvp gameplay should be the focus; not pvp by any means. People will roam more if there is more opportunity to get a fight.
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Hesperius
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 -
[472]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
I laughed, and copy and pasted everywhere applicable.
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 -
[473]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Diverge, or divulge? =P
Divulge, jesus I butchered that.
I suspect you were more correct the first time.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
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Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 -
[475]
Btw, industrial types: rejoice. With 0.0 markets becoming more fragmented, and prices driven by distance more than risk, this should make prices across 0.0 rise. Maybe I can make something on Coolant again. --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
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mvrck22
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:52:00 -
[476]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: mvrck22
Originally by: CCP Soundwave is what you have a CSM for, right?
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
Diverge, or divulge? =P
Divulge, jesus I butchered that.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:53:00 -
[477]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to divulge more.
Hey Soundwave. We do not care one bit what the CSM thinks, and neither should you. The CSM is a PR thing, and should not be listened to over the rest of your players. Do not use the CSM to deny the average player their voice.
The "We know you don't like it, but the CSM agree with us!" attitude needs to stop. It's US you need to impress, not them. From this whole thread, including the JB changes, it's this that bothers me the most.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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Freelancer'Spb
Fremen Sietch DarkSide.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:53:00 -
[478]
Good news. Imo it's better to nerf all jumpbridges including titans, maybe later.
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Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:53:00 -
[479]
Good stuff. It's high time this subject was revisited properly.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:53:00 -
[480]
Edited by: Weaselior on 10/05/2011 20:56:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
you know what would have fixed this without making things a pain in the ass for everyone, right?
beacons for jb's and fitting requirements that make guns impossible
presto, pvp is saved but without mindless tedium
edit: watch as I fix ganking without making me waste my time with gates:
a jump bridge requires 5m power
a jump bridge has the same global beacon as a TCU
boom, problem solved
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TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:54:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk The tears they taste great!! I bet 90% of the whiners werent around during the time before jump bridges existed.
You know what we did back in 0.0 before the time of jump bridges in 2007, we had escorts and organized fleets. It was fun, and was also my first experience in 0.0. 45 jumps from K8 in branch to NGM-0k in a thorax guarding two iteron 5's. Was fun, not stinking jump bridges to geminate to drone regions, all 100% had to be there pilots and piloting.
So pretty much, STFU. It isnt that bad, you still have your jump bridges, and can still use freighters with them.
I was there and I remember.
And I still say this change stinks. It *will* hurt EVE _over all_.
I'm all for getting rid of JB's entirely (going back to pre-RMR) but not this band-aid with added acid/salt.
BIG Lottery |
Clerence Thomas
Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:55:00 -
[482]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Unfortunately you fail to understand the dynamics of the world you are working on. Your flagship pvp happens in losec where you are close enough to hisec to quickly replace the losses incurred in pvp, yet the non pvp people can fairly safely happily spend their time producing ships for pvp people to blow up. Zero is about empire building, and in order to build empires you need to be able to support and protect people that have no wish to engage in pvp.
These changes negate some of the isk sinks you built into the sov system - I no longer need to upgrade systems or waste money on additional towers in mids because I only need 1 tower to host a cyno beacon and protect a titan that handles the bridging instead of the 3 towers (2 bridges and a jammer) and additional sov cost it takes now. Of course the down side is that I need to lay down 50bn for a mobile jump bridge up front.
You also fail to understand that constant territory incursions are not relatively boring and lifeless. They are exhausting and painful. They require great amounts of non pvp to support. And they only get worse as you tweak the system to encourage pvp - the blobs get bigger because they must, the amount of metal on the field gets bigger because it must.
If you really want fun pvp do things that make it possible - give me locking gates in the middle of my empire so the miners can safely build a zillion cruisers, give me arena systems for the pvps to go play in, un-nerf my caps that we were promised came in pre-nerfed only to get additionally nerfed. There are ways to do this without being stupid about it, I promise. :)
But, as always this is an up front reaction - we'll see how the changes come out in the wash...
--CT -- "There are over 500 million fire arms in worldwide circulation. That is one fire arm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is... How do we arm the other eleven?"
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:55:00 -
[483]
The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
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CheckingAmarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:55:00 -
[484]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Read my post then re-examine your flawed reasoning
Regarding your post:
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
Why did you totally ignore the part of his post that dealt with NPC-station nullsec? That's the yin to the yang in terms of nullsec combat. Ignoring it exacerbates poor gameplay.
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Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:56:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Bane Necran
Originally by: Zamiq Cause some people subscribed to the game after EvE was out for 4 years. These people have done a serious investment into the game and its understandable that they might not like a potential change that will double the time required to move goods/ships. Now, if you dont like these people complaining then fine you can stick with "there was eve before this and this change" but then you must realize that the people who are not happy with the change will leave
And they'll be easily and swiftly replaced, by people who embrace the changes.
So they won't be replaced.
Originally by: McKinlay When you get on the batphone and the only people left in the phone book are Aeternus and BLAST it might be time to hang up.
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Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:56:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
And the worst thing is giving only a week for a change to implement, while there is hundreds of things in backlog community is crying for years, but its more important for you guys to heal the frustrations and enjoy in drama on forums this change will cause. You are that really that horny to **** people up.
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time, but I pitty all semiserious industrialist in 0.0 and people who are living bit more far from high/low sec. CCP just got your life 10 times harder cause they are ****ing clueless how 0.0 operates.
You seem mad.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:56:00 -
[487]
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume we can't deal with both? As far as I'm aware, CCP Sreegs has been kicking ass and taking names on the botting front.
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:57:00 -
[488]
Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 10/05/2011 20:58:33
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to..
dramiels, cynabals, machs, ****ed ECCM mechanics making ships unprobable and cloaks with or without afk .. not to mention invulnerable npc stations.
Where's the balance?
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EI Digin
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:57:00 -
[489]
these changes fix nothing
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ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:57:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
We have seen a high level outline that to a great extent outlines the major problems with 0.0 life, from what the goals should be that motivate you to live there, to the major problems that make most players say "Screw this". It's a very insightful outline and I think it would provide the top to bottom overhaul that people almost universally feel should happen. I'm critical as all get out on what 0.0 is, and has become, because it needs a complete enema not tweaking the edges. They get this and if the guiding principles we've seen hold true 0.0 will indeed own once implemented.
What that actually is going to be remains to be seen because details haven't been introduced on any level. Next week we begin discussing this and hopefully my tentative endorsement holds true then.
Wouldn't it make more sense for CCP to: 1. Discuss long term with the CSM 2. Get CSM feedback regarding the long term plan 3. Outline the long term plan to the player base 4. Break the long term plan down into patch sized steps 5. Implement the steps.
What is happening in this thread is reactionary rather than proactive and it is happening on other forums and forms of communication as well. No one will agree with every change that needs to happen. Everyone agrees that 0.0 needs to change. By essentially blindsiding the player base with a change that addresses 1 random issue CCP are creating anenvironemnt of dissent.
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Korvin
Gallente Shadow Kingdom Best Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:57:00 -
[491]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I disagree, I don't know where this entitlement to a fair fight comes from. PVP is a wonderful part of EVE, in whatever shape or form it may be in. Don't forget that you need someone willing to bring a gang out to your space in order to get a proper fight too. So a byproduct of ganking might be the fights you talk about.
The type of players that will benefit from this are the gate campers. And where are they? in lowsec - as thats where the easy prey is. And easy prey is what they want - not "good fights"
Sure there might be a minuscule minority that *does* wan't "good fights" (and thus will move out to 0.0 gate camping instead) - But it's just that, a minuscule minority. While a HUGE part of 0.0 dwellers are getting royally screwed with this one.
It just doesn't add up (to a good change imo.)
Yay for the gate campers! Bait and kill them with your roaming fleet. Homesystem fun delivery.
No, really, there were a time when there were no JB at all, and 0.0 was full of ppl anyway.
_____________ 4th term 5th term
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Minorius
Gallente Biotronics Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:57:00 -
[492]
Yay, please nerf JBs! Honestly, alone for the reason of the lovely NC tears, who won't have much sov in the future anyway. I like it!
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:58:00 -
[493]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume we can't deal with both? As far as I'm aware, CCP Sreegs has been kicking ass and taking names on the botting front.
because you are pretty much useless in most departments of your game, be it stopping bots or killing bugs
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:58:00 -
[494]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Yes, it increases the chance of ganking a lonesome traveller by gatecamping. And CCP seems to think that qualifies as fun PVP or PVP at all for that matter. But guess what, it isn't. Whats the fun in shooting one ship with 10 dudes? No challenge, no teambuilding, no tactics, nothing. Its like the current fleet fight, they are boring but they serve a purpose (defending space/assets whatever). This is just more boring stuff with no purpose at all.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:59:00 -
[495]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume we can't deal with both? As far as I'm aware, CCP Sreegs has been kicking ass and taking names on the botting front.
yes your campaign that has only hit roidripper bots in highsec and market bots in stations with any real consistency is doing wonders on that front
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Ayari
Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:59:00 -
[496]
Edited by: Ayari on 10/05/2011 20:59:30
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet The best part about this thread is all the ~elite~ pvp alliances crowing about how excited they are for an increase in gate camps. I guess if you're not able to actually have a nullsec empire then gatecamping is the next best thing? Congrats I guess...
Maybe they want to have an EVE where players who are skilled at actual PVP are rewarded more than players that hide in massive blobs where pvp ability doesn't matter.
--------- Commander CAIN Conga Squadron CAIN Home |
Philip Jones
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:59:00 -
[497]
I dont really care about your nerf mr soundwave, moving freighters by gate is just as easy now as it was back before jb. But what exactly is the point of holding sov space besides building broken supers?
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Sverre Haakonson
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:59:00 -
[498]
Quote: Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
As in real life both sectors are depending on each other. You don't know your own sandbox.
The change isn't awful but this statement is frightened me.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:59:00 -
[499]
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
We have seen a high level outline that to a great extent outlines the major problems with 0.0 life, from what the goals should be that motivate you to live there, to the major problems that make most players say "Screw this". It's a very insightful outline and I think it would provide the top to bottom overhaul that people almost universally feel should happen. I'm critical as all get out on what 0.0 is, and has become, because it needs a complete enema not tweaking the edges. They get this and if the guiding principles we've seen hold true 0.0 will indeed own once implemented.
What that actually is going to be remains to be seen because details haven't been introduced on any level. Next week we begin discussing this and hopefully my tentative endorsement holds true then.
Wouldn't it make more sense for CCP to: 1. Discuss long term with the CSM 2. Get CSM feedback regarding the long term plan 3. Outline the long term plan to the player base 4. Break the long term plan down into patch sized steps 5. Implement the steps.
What is happening in this thread is reactionary rather than proactive and it is happening on other forums and forms of communication as well. No one will agree with every change that needs to happen. Everyone agrees that 0.0 needs to change. By essentially blindsiding the player base with a change that addresses 1 random issue CCP are creating anenvironemnt of dissent.
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
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Gourdo
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 20:59:00 -
[500]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to divulge more.
Of course they like the idea. It is their alliances/friends that will benefit from the changes the most. These changes as they stand without other balances first will make null only for large alliances. Small alliances will not be able to acquire or hold null sov for the most part.
If a alliance wants to bring in logistics then they will have to use non cap haulers since ships like Jump freighters will not be able to use jump gates to get into a system that is cyno-jammed to get to a station. From my time in null it seams any system that has a outpost in it is cyno-jammed. So to jump in ships or even open a titan bridge you will have to put the cyno jammer offline.
If a Alliance spends the resources and time to to take sov in null they should be able to make it somewhat safe for their industries or friends to operate. If you go down this current road you might as well just take the ice, rocks, and anomalies out remove all jump bridges cyno jamming and titan bridging. Oh hell just take out all caps and finish making null into WOW pvp server style arena.
Personally I feel as these changes stand you will be hurting null more than helping it. Getting into and out of null was a pain in the arse as it is, including moving around in null.
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State Citizen
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:00:00 -
[501]
Has CCP ever considered why players might want to be in 0.0?
They seem determined to remove any benefit for the individual to be in 0.0.
Logically in terms of game progression most of us may be better off in 1.0
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:00:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Weaselior Edited by: Weaselior on 10/05/2011 20:56:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
you know what would have fixed this without making things a pain in the ass for everyone, right?
beacons for jb's and fitting requirements that make guns impossible
presto, pvp is saved but without mindless tedium
edit: watch as I fix ganking without making me waste my time with gates:
a jump bridge requires 5m power
a jump bridge has the same global beacon as a TCU
boom, problem solved
This. A million times over.
I have no problem with JBs having some risk, and this seems like a fair balance.
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Arthello
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:00:00 -
[503]
OMG this is such excellent news. Thanks for buffing PvP CCP! CCP's war on blobbing is rolling!
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:00:00 -
[504]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Then why not make the Jump Bridge independent of the POS? Remove the guns, put it in orbit of the planet and make it visible on overview. Bam, you have far more risk but far less tedium. Problem?
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JarJar Binkz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:00:00 -
[505]
There was life before jump bridges, jump freighters and titan portals and it was a profitable one.
There will be a life while there are still jump bridges around, jump freighters and titan portals.
ffs, goons stop whining
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:01:00 -
[506]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:01:00 -
[507]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume we can't deal with both? As far as I'm aware, CCP Sreegs has been kicking ass and taking names on the botting front.
Oh please not that old chestnut.
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Mara Kashuken
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:01:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Mara Kashuken Or wait, is camping gates and ganking single ships your idea of "small gang PvP?" I guess you're right then. And I guess I need to buy some more SeBos for my hurricane
...not even going to entertain the rage post of an NC alt too embarrassed to post with his main. If youre unsure of how this affects small gang and gate-to-gate pvp, there's a chance you're also an NC pilot.
Not an NC alt, but nice try. I could be a jerk and call you out on your questionable experience in Sov 0.0 space... but I won't - I'm all for small gang PvP too. It sure beats the hell out of lagfest fleet fights. Or having supers dropped on you left and right. Changes like these, who knows, maybe they'll make things better in 0.0 and maybe they won't. The anom change hasn't done a damn thing to fix any of the stated problems of 0.0 - blobbing and supercap proliferation, so why should I believe that smacking jump bridges with the nerf bat will help small gang PvP in any way? Please, dear sir, enlighten me.
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:01:00 -
[509]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I'm not entirely sure why you'd assume we can't deal with both? As far as I'm aware, CCP Sreegs has been kicking ass and taking names on the botting front.
I loled. You guys really don't have a clue, do you?
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:01:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Weaselior Edited by: Weaselior on 10/05/2011 20:56:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
you know what would have fixed this without making things a pain in the ass for everyone, right?
beacons for jb's and fitting requirements that make guns impossible
presto, pvp is saved but without mindless tedium
edit: watch as I fix ganking without making me waste my time with gates:
a jump bridge requires 5m power
a jump bridge has the same global beacon as a TCU
boom, problem solved
Makes sense to me.
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:01:00 -
[511]
This change is utter and complete BS.
Thanks for making the job of fueling POS 10X worse. Not to mention making supercaps *more* powerful because its going to be a pain in the ass to deal with constantly cycling a cyno jammer and keeping logistics working at the same time since guess what? Jump freighters have jump drives. And since you cant trust just anyone to deal with the cyno jammer, now you get to open yourself more to spies, or leadership gets to have more work saddled on them.
First you turn the average Joe's income into utter crap and send them to missioning in highsec and now this... well I thank you CCP, at least I won't have to waste my life playing EVE anymore. Once I quit I will have more time to spend with my GF and making IRL isk.
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:02:00 -
[512]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to diverge more.
We have seen a high level outline that to a great extent outlines the major problems with 0.0 life, from what the goals should be that motivate you to live there, to the major problems that make most players say "Screw this". It's a very insightful outline and I think it would provide the top to bottom overhaul that people almost universally feel should happen. I'm critical as all get out on what 0.0 is, and has become, because it needs a complete enema not tweaking the edges. They get this and if the guiding principles we've seen hold true 0.0 will indeed own once implemented.
What that actually is going to be remains to be seen because details haven't been introduced on any level. Next week we begin discussing this and hopefully my tentative endorsement holds true then.
Wouldn't it make more sense for CCP to: 1. Discuss long term with the CSM 2. Get CSM feedback regarding the long term plan 3. Outline the long term plan to the player base 4. Break the long term plan down into patch sized steps 5. Implement the steps.
What is happening in this thread is reactionary rather than proactive and it is happening on other forums and forms of communication as well. No one will agree with every change that needs to happen. Everyone agrees that 0.0 needs to change. By essentially blindsiding the player base with a change that addresses 1 random issue CCP are creating anenvironemnt of dissent.
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
wouldnt it be better to have the whole plan ready before you start doing anything?
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Korvin
Gallente Shadow Kingdom Best Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:02:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Madcapnl
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Yes, it increases the chance of ganking a lonesome traveller by gatecamping. And CCP seems to think that qualifies as fun PVP or PVP at all for that matter. But guess what, it isn't. Whats the fun in shooting one ship with 10 dudes? No challenge, no teambuilding, no tactics, nothing. Its like the current fleet fight, they are boring but they serve a purpose (defending space/assets whatever). This is just more boring stuff with no purpose at all.
Option 1 - use scout. Option 2 - follow your roaming fleet and use it as a cover. Option 3 - use cloaked antibubble t3 ship, and don't forget some warpstabs!
_____________ 4th term 5th term
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:02:00 -
[514]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Well congratulations. You've found another way to inflict stress and disincentive for the already tiny population in 0.0
I think many here don't care what you told the CSM, or who's interests you thought you were serving. We all get that CCP's got an ego to stroke in knowing they've made the most 'hardcore' game possible. We get it, EVE is not WoW.
Unfortunately, nowhere here has it been said how this will make the game fun for a majority of players. You know, the 80-90% of your subscriber base.
As long as CCP's focus is on the type of game they might play, rather than other people want to play, they're gonna continue to see that slow bleed.
Get it together already.
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:02:00 -
[515]
Originally by: Gourdo
Of course they like the idea. It is their alliances/friends that will benefit from the changes the most. These changes as they stand without other balances first will make null only for large alliances. Small alliances will not be able to acquire or hold null sov for the most part.
non-technetium 0.0 is so worthless it took ages for anyone to bother to take delve after the owning power was slaughtered and sent fleeing to empire, an undefended region with -1.0 trusec and a large collection of the second-best moons in the game and good plexes
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TornSoul
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:03:00 -
[516]
Originally by: Zamiq
Then why not make the Jump Bridge independent of the POS? Remove the guns, put it in orbit of the planet and make it visible on overview. Bam, you have far more risk but far less tedium. Problem?
Sounds like a good solution.
BIG Lottery |
Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:03:00 -
[517]
What this will basically do is kill off 0.0 industry, specifically mining. We already deal with cloaky campers sitting in systems with any kind of industry index for weeks at a time, so to deal with it we take the jb from one mining system to another. Usually through a loop since systems with refining stations tend to be cyno jammed so fleets of hulks don't get a super dropped on us. Now no point in mining, no one will be able to mine enough ore to make the isk to buy new ships before the old ones explode. Can't jump a rorq anywhere since it has a jump drive, same with a JF. Guess it's wormholes or nothing now. We'll just buy everything from russian botters and import the rest from hisec, wait JF's again nvm.
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Akinetopsia
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:03:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet The best part about this thread is all the ~elite~ pvp alliances crowing about how excited they are for an increase in gate camps. I guess if you're not able to actually have a nullsec empire then gatecamping is the next best thing? Congrats I guess...
we're "crowing" because you are getting greifed by ccp and crying like the people whom YOU used to get tears out of.
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:04:00 -
[519]
Edited by: Madcapnl on 10/05/2011 21:04:30
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We're developing the plan,
Maybe next time make plans first and then start implementing changes?
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JarJar Binkz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:04:00 -
[520]
Originally by: Weaselior a jump bridge requires 5m power
a jump bridge has the same global beacon as a TCU
boom, problem solved
Tbh, when I wanted to know where NC jbs are I googled them up.
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Olivia Ironsides
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:05:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Gourdo
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to divulge more.
Of course they like the idea. It is their alliances/friends that will benefit from the changes the most. These changes as they stand without other balances first will make null only for large alliances. Small alliances will not be able to acquire or hold null sov for the most part.
If a alliance wants to bring in logistics then they will have to use non cap haulers since ships like Jump freighters will not be able to use jump gates to get into a system that is cyno-jammed to get to a station. From my time in null it seams any system that has a outpost in it is cyno-jammed. So to jump in ships or even open a titan bridge you will have to put the cyno jammer offline.
If a Alliance spends the resources and time to to take sov in null they should be able to make it somewhat safe for their industries or friends to operate. If you go down this current road you might as well just take the ice, rocks, and anomalies out remove all jump bridges cyno jamming and titan bridging. Oh hell just take out all caps and finish making null into WOW pvp server style arena.
Personally I feel as these changes stand you will be hurting null more than helping it. Getting into and out of null was a pain in the arse as it is, including moving around in null.
How about some carrot with stick, instead of just repeated beatings with the stick.
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Tarion Awessi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:05:00 -
[522]
CCP Soundwave - When your idea for "forcing PvP" can be avoided with a cloak/scout alt/intel channel, you have to consider whether you're actually forcing PvP, or just boring people by doubling the number of jumps they need to take.
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artsjitaalt
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:05:00 -
[523]
You know, I thought that maybe Iceland was on a different calendar and this was April 1st there or something.
Then I realized the truth. That this is quite possible the worst possible change to null sec ever. Why? Because at least in the past where core systems were defensible across the myriad of newly created BAD space (See whats left of fade/pure blind in terms of sanctums after the last 0.0 nerf) now we're expected to huddle in smaller pockets because of the more difficult nature in traveling across that space.
And that is going to make life in Null better?
Does *ANYONE* there actually think?
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Helen
White Noise.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:06:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Madcapnl Edited by: Madcapnl on 10/05/2011 21:04:30
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We're developing the plan,
Maybe next time make plans first and then start implementing changes?
Maybe learn to read as he said this was an isolated change due to happen.
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:06:00 -
[525]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
****ing this. right here. this.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:06:00 -
[526]
CCP: You do not understand what you are "fixing".
There are better ways of accomplishing this, many are in this thread. Make jbs warpable-to, like stargates etc. Make JB pos fangless. Bloody loads of ideas.
You also need to give us the direction of EVERYTHING before implementing these small changes. Right now, you're screwing stuff up and you don't have a clear idea (or it hasn't been communicated) what you're going to ADD.
Wait until you have a firm plan for the whole thing and can communicate it to the players. LISTEN to player feedback. Tweak the plan. Then roll it out stage by stage.
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JarJar Binkz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:07:00 -
[527]
Originally by: Cellistara What this will basically do is kill off 0.0 industry, specifically mining. We already deal with cloaky campers sitting in systems with any kind of industry index for weeks at a time, so to deal with it we take the jb from one mining system to another. Usually through a loop since systems with refining stations tend to be cyno jammed so fleets of hulks don't get a super dropped on us. Now no point in mining, no one will be able to mine enough ore to make the isk to buy new ships before the old ones explode. Can't jump a rorq anywhere since it has a jump drive, same with a JF. Guess it's wormholes or nothing now. We'll just buy everything from russian botters and import the rest from hisec, wait JF's again nvm.
NEWSFLASH: capitals can move without using gates or bridges
Basic instructions, have friend put a cyno up, right click on capacitor, click 'self destruct'
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:07:00 -
[528]
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Wouldn't it make more sense for CCP to: 1. Discuss long term with the CSM 2. Get CSM feedback regarding the long term plan 3. Outline the long term plan to the player base 4. Break the long term plan down into patch sized steps 5. Implement the steps.
What is happening in this thread is reactionary rather than proactive and it is happening on other forums and forms of communication as well. No one will agree with every change that needs to happen. Everyone agrees that 0.0 needs to change. By essentially blindsiding the player base with a change that addresses 1 random issue CCP are creating anenvironemnt of dissent.
Yeah but we deal with the hand we got.
When it was said we were encouraged by the revamp top level outline that's true, not the same with this change. Not happy with this change at all. We are able to influence some changes to the final product but if they gonna do a thang they gonna do a thang. The JB changes blow, I hate them, I think they aren't going to achieve the desired result and it was fought. In the end we are forced to agree to disagree and move on as this is an inevitability and there are limits to what we can impact. We were able to get changes to blunt the immediate damage and smooth some rough edges but the end result is the best deal that could be had.
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:08:00 -
[529]
Edited by: Madcapnl on 10/05/2011 21:08:50 Edited by: Madcapnl on 10/05/2011 21:08:09
Originally by: Helen
Originally by: Madcapnl Edited by: Madcapnl on 10/05/2011 21:04:30
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We're developing the plan,
Maybe next time make plans first and then start implementing changes?
Maybe learn to read as he said this was an isolated change due to happen.
Yes I read that, I just don't agree with isolated changes that have non-isolated or even mega impact on the game. Make a plan for nullsec first and THEN and only THEN start changing things.
Edit: Or what #530 says, he puts it in writing much better then I can.
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progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:08:00 -
[530]
The uncreative whine yet again. Great change CCP.
This will not affect too much in terms of actual moving around, all it will do is require people to look at the map a little harder when designing a jb network, and take advantage of gates that cover large light year distances (its not hard), rather than just use dotlan jump planner. The only difference is it makes it easier to camp routes, which is a direct boost to roaming gangs, which is something a large amount of the community has been asking for.
Once again, good change CCP, and I live in period basis, which is one of the deepest systems in eve, so I don't want to hear your *****ing, just because you will have to make a few new bookmarks, and actually clear out roaming gangs from your space, instead of ignore them and play tanks or HON.
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ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:08:00 -
[531]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Wouldn't it make more sense for CCP to: 1. Discuss long term with the CSM 2. Get CSM feedback regarding the long term plan 3. Outline the long term plan to the player base 4. Break the long term plan down into patch sized steps 5. Implement the steps.
What is happening in this thread is reactionary rather than proactive and it is happening on other forums and forms of communication as well. No one will agree with every change that needs to happen. Everyone agrees that 0.0 needs to change. By essentially blindsiding the player base with a change that addresses 1 random issue CCP are creating anenvironemnt of dissent.
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
When an organisation is formulating a major plan, that will potentially have widespread long term effects, it simple common sense to put small isolated changes on hold until the big picture is clear. Making a small isolated change while planning a major long term progression can have drastic results on the long term effects. I believe the term for these effects has been coined as the "butterfly effect". Do you understand this concept?
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:09:00 -
[532]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
****ing this. right here. this.
^^^
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Illwill Bill
Talu Shaya Talu Shaya Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:09:00 -
[533]
Edited by: Illwill Bill on 10/05/2011 21:09:54 With the craploads of NC tears this has brought, this change cannot be a bad one.
Also: Linkage
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Revenge is a dish best served with auto-cannons.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:09:00 -
[534]
Originally by: JarJar Binkz
Originally by: Cellistara What this will basically do is kill off 0.0 industry, specifically mining. We already deal with cloaky campers sitting in systems with any kind of industry index for weeks at a time, so to deal with it we take the jb from one mining system to another. Usually through a loop since systems with refining stations tend to be cyno jammed so fleets of hulks don't get a super dropped on us. Now no point in mining, no one will be able to mine enough ore to make the isk to buy new ships before the old ones explode. Can't jump a rorq anywhere since it has a jump drive, same with a JF. Guess it's wormholes or nothing now. We'll just buy everything from russian botters and import the rest from hisec, wait JF's again nvm.
NEWSFLASH: capitals can move without using gates or bridges
Basic instructions, have friend put a cyno up, right click on capacitor, click 'self destruct'
Currently: Bridges take caps to systems with cyno jammers With change: If you can jump the ship itself, you can't enter a system with a JB
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Laminar Septimar
Gallente German Kings Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:09:00 -
[535]
tl;dr
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
[...]while upping the fuelbay to 30.000 (3x)[...]
Anyone from CCP can confirm that the new capacity of Jumpbridge-modules will be 30k m¦ ?
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:09:00 -
[536]
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Wouldn't it make more sense for CCP to: 1. Discuss long term with the CSM 2. Get CSM feedback regarding the long term plan 3. Outline the long term plan to the player base 4. Break the long term plan down into patch sized steps 5. Implement the steps.
What is happening in this thread is reactionary rather than proactive and it is happening on other forums and forms of communication as well. No one will agree with every change that needs to happen. Everyone agrees that 0.0 needs to change. By essentially blindsiding the player base with a change that addresses 1 random issue CCP are creating anenvironemnt of dissent.
Yeah but we deal with the hand we got.
When it was said we were encouraged by the revamp top level outline that's true, not the same with this change. Not happy with this change at all. We are able to influence some changes to the final product but if they gonna do a thang they gonna do a thang. The JB changes blow, I hate them, I think they aren't going to achieve the desired result and it was fought. In the end we are forced to agree to disagree and move on as this is an inevitability and there are limits to what we can impact. We were able to get changes to blunt the immediate damage and smooth some rough edges but the end result is the best deal that could be had.
what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
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Calistro
Gallente Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:10:00 -
[537]
I have to laugh at the amount of whining that is going on in this thread.
5 years ago, no jumpfreighters, no jump bridges, no titans. Only carriers were used and they were rare.
ASCN, 5000 man alliance did weekly freighter ops of 20+ from Feythabolis up to empire and back. ASCN was a bunch of carebears for the most part and no one complained, it was a part of being there. Complacency has taken a hold of today's people in 0.0 and it's time the dice were thrown into the air again. God protect you against actually having to band up to do something as a group that doesn't involve PVP or PVE. People in the alliances making billions and billions on the production and sales of supercaps will be the ones hurt in this, not John Doe.
Maybe it will even take the NPC sov regions out of being botting heavens and make people move into them for real.
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Larissa Sunsorrow
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:10:00 -
[538]
itt: http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/butthurt2.jpg
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:10:00 -
[539]
Also the other serious problem is that JB's shouldn't bar rorquals and JFs, there's no gain to blocking them since that doesn't help you defend the cynojammed system and just again increases tedium.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:11:00 -
[540]
Originally by: Laminar Septimar tl;dr
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
[...]while upping the fuelbay to 30.000 (3x)[...]
Anyone from CCP can confirm that the new capacity of Jumpbridge-modules will be 30k m¦ ?
Confirmed!
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:11:00 -
[541]
Quote: The tears they taste great!! I bet 90% of the whiners werent around during the time before jump bridges existed. You know what we did back in 0.0 before the time of jump bridges in 2007, we had escorts and organized fleets. It was fun, and was also my first experience in 0.0. 45 jumps from K8 in branch to NGM-0k in a thorax guarding two iteron 5's. Was fun, not stinking jump bridges to geminate to drone regions, all 100% had to be there pilots and piloting. So pretty much, STFU. It isnt that bad, you still have your jump bridges, and can still use freighters with them.
Befor we had toilets we crapped in the wood; ah, the poetry! Who here can remember the sounds of the birds, the cool breeze wafting around your delicates, the .... damn it, I've lost my train of thought
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Inari Ryosaki
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:11:00 -
[542]
excellent.
a step in the right direction!
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:11:00 -
[543]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout If itÆs difficult catching people moving around, roaming/open world pvp becomes more sidelined, which weÆre against
Let's be clear - this change does not promote player vs player, it promotes player versus ganker. One of the primary draws of conquerable space is the ability to define your own transport and shortcuts. This is of huge importance to the casual 0.0 player who doesn't want to stress about getting an escort fleet everytime he moves his hauler full of salvage somewhere. The net effect of this change will be less casual eve players in 0.0, and eventually less opportunity for exactly the kind of 'PVP' you claim to promote.
Except these casual 0.0 players were the ones who were using jumpbridges in their t1 haulers carrying salvage and were not touched before. They were not contributing anything towards any pvp before, and if they go back to empire they're just as likely to be suicide ganked(probably moreso) as if they were carrying a week's worth of pve loot on jumpbridges(something that is worrying in itself). If this guy is as happy going back to highsec as he was in 0.0 speaks to me that he was not in fact contributing anything to the ~0.0 pvp experience~ and his/her presence will not be missed by anyone.
Quote:
Where are the mini-objectives promised for roaming gangs in conquerable 0.0 over eighteen months ago? Why aren't these gangs currently running around with the ability to disrupt jumpbridges and force people to use stargates? This is a hugely regressive step where roamers no longer have to use cunning or specialised ships to kill people outside their own towers, or disrupt their logistics, but instead the aim of their op becomes 'gank hauler on gate, go home'.
In many ways this *is* that change. If logistics are easier to interrupt then that accomplishes many of the goals...instead of having to bring 15 guys and sit cloaked near jumpbridges to get any chance at getting a kill, there is more variety in ways to find targets and disrupt the enemy. I don't get why you have it in your head that a hauler in 0.0 should be safe...it's not like there is suddenly going to be no one else in intel channels and no local channel. It is still very possible to ensure your safety, it just takes some effort or coordination instead of setting up a cyno jammer deathstar and knowing that it sits vigilant over every single gate you go through, ensuring your safety against any small gang
Quote:
Originally by: CCP Fallout if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety
This is entirely untrue. People get ganked using jumpbridges (and beacons) all the time. Bombers, HIC traps, drag bubbles, and supercapital drops happen every minute. Try looking for them instead of assuming they do not happen.
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Brasts |
Tonemaster B
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:11:00 -
[544]
Can you run a Cyno Array thingie in a cyno jammed system? Yea may seem obvious.. but who knows..
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:12:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:12:00 -
[546]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:13:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:13:00 -
[548]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
They can speak, it's just all they can do.
Don't think the CSM is somehow not doing their job. But recognize, it never had any power to begin with. CCP decided that it was too much work trying to wade in forum BS, and so they had us vote for a body of people to fly up so they can get their complains in person. But they have no obligation to listen to what they say anymore than they do someone on the boards.
The only real problem with the whole setup is that the CSM membership is, essentially, a forum popularity contest, and not any sorta true cross-section of EVE. It took CCP's already limited view, and narrowed it even further.
Originally by: CCP Atropos THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:13:00 -
[549]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 10/05/2011 21:14:37
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: JarJar Binkz
Originally by: Cellistara What this will basically do is kill off 0.0 industry, specifically mining. We already deal with cloaky campers sitting in systems with any kind of industry index for weeks at a time, so to deal with it we take the jb from one mining system to another. Usually through a loop since systems with refining stations tend to be cyno jammed so fleets of hulks don't get a super dropped on us. Now no point in mining, no one will be able to mine enough ore to make the isk to buy new ships before the old ones explode. Can't jump a rorq anywhere since it has a jump drive, same with a JF. Guess it's wormholes or nothing now. We'll just buy everything from russian botters and import the rest from hisec, wait JF's again nvm.
NEWSFLASH: capitals can move without using gates or bridges
Basic instructions, have friend put a cyno up, right click on capacitor, click 'self destruct'
Currently: Bridges take caps to systems with cyno jammers With change: If you can jump the ship itself, you can't enter a system with a JB
That's why the cyno jammer can be put offline, and online. The procedure takes five minute or so, but it requires communication with fellow spaceship friends, this is what CCP intends, I believe.
People when not in need tend to go each for himself, that beats the point of mmorpgism philosophy of Eve Online. When people need to communicate they create better content and it makes the game more interesting, even if it is more difficult.
Deal wiz it, you'll probably have more fun over it in the long run
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:14:00 -
[550]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 21:13:49
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Fallout
WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
You're nerfing a key part of nullsec in June. You're starting work on our consolation prize 'this winter', meaning it'll be at least 9 months before we see any improvement. Nine months as people move away from living in from vulnerable conquerable stations with little benefit to NPC 0.0 stations with no downsides.
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
Here's a crazy idea - why not introduce your nerfs alongside a proper, well thought out rebalance of nullsec rather than shoving them in now and offering vague promises that something better is coming, hopefully! Between this and the botched sanctum change, the only people left in conquerable space by that time will be the gankers wondering where all their targets went.
Botched sanctum change? I'd say it worked, I never really got why all 0.0 space got more or less equalized. Conquerable space already offers a pretty wide variety of boosts and I don't really get why you're selling them short. Cynojammers plus jumpbridges plus anomalies (no sanctums? remember back before dominion when everyone had to belt rat so you could support MAYBE 2 people per system ratting? probably not) plus CSAA's is still a pretty healthy bonus over npc space. If you don't like ~holding space~ then I'm sure there are quite a few groups who would be happy to take it and you can be a NPC SPACE GANKER based out of S-U8A4 once more. Brasts |
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:14:00 -
[551]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec.
And it is. Can you avoid fights if you want to? Of course you can, even you should be able to see the error of not enabling that. (Hint: We need to buy/build ships some how.) However, there are points where you can force a fight, which is the entire point in sov warfare.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use.
So the fact that they are giant targets that require resources and PvP effort (holding sov) makes no nevermind to you?
Originally by: CCP Soundwave The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests.
You're right, the 100's of people we get through tribute (in non-wartime) alone causing all kinds of mischief are clearly lifeless drones. They clearly never see any kind of action. Changing JB's will totally make them suddenly produce GOOD PvP as opposed to your standard gank and run. (Because if ganking is your flagship PvP model, tell me now. I will seriously shut down my 6 accounts and go work through my massive steam library instead.)
But what happened to the whole "build your empire" talk? Has CCP changed it's focus? Because all this change does is create more gate gank situations. It's all it boils down to, no matter how you - or anyone else tries and sugar coat it. (Hint: Supercapitals Online will continue regardless) You either jump through with enough forces to break the camp, or get jita'd before you can even hope to use your brain to create an advantage. Until you create a situation where small scale PvP actually works correctly, complete with a full gate/local/nullsec rework, why bother?
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Hopefully? Just like the anom changes radically changed everything we do in nullsec? Yeah...
You will find that almost all nullsec people (NC or otherwise) will support changes to nullsec, but NOT in the manner you are carrying on with. You clearly feel the need to do something, or risk being seen by empire whinners as not doing anything and nullsec people as not doing enough. But the truth is, you just need to stop, work it out FULLY, then release it as a package of sweeping changes. It is impossible for you to know the effects of these changes without knowing what you'll need to do in winter.
Seriously, just stop what you're doing until you have the time/resources to do it fully. Remember that whole "Do something well instead of rushing it" concept you agreed to? Yeah... start respecting it. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:14:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Zamiq
Cause some people subscribed to the game after EvE was out for 4 years. These people have done a serious investment into the game and its understandable that they might not like a potential change that will double the time required to move goods/ships. Now, if you dont like these people complaining then fine you can stick with "there was eve before this and this change" but then you must realize that the people who are not happy with the change will leave and this in now way will increase the pvp rations in null.
Current travel from Taisy (lowsec Lonetrek) to UJY-HE (furthest part of Deklein):
Normal Gates: 7 Jumpbridges: 10
Theoretical future travel from Taisy (lowsec Lonetrek) to UJY-HE (furthest part of Deklein):
Normal Gates: 10 Jumpbridges: 9
This calculation was made using systems currently under sov by the holder alliances, accounting for viability of said systems for JB placement and based on a reasonable rearrangement of the current JB network. The actual layout may add or subtract two or three jumps from this, as my theoretical route is by no means optimal. --
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Martin Mckenna
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:14:00 -
[553]
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 10/05/2011 20:58:33
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to..
dramiels, cynabals, machs, ****ed ECCM mechanics making ships unprobable and cloaks with or without afk .. not to mention invulnerable npc stations.
Where's the balance?
The "invulnerable" npc space you talk about is to cater to groups of player who dont have 700 man blobs and they also help in the transition for new players from empire to 0.0. Without them it would not be possible to live in 0.0 without being in a major alliance.
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:14:00 -
[554]
For all the people that keep bleating on and on about how there was a time when there were no jump bridges, I'd like to point out a few things.
1. Much higher levels of mineral compression were possible. 2. Rats dropped a lot more in the way of minerals, and the ratio of mins to m3 was higher as well. 3. Mining was actually profitable in 0.0 so some needs were met that way. This was before the drone regions. 4. For a large part of it, carriers could put ships with stuff in their cargohold into their hangars, and could handle logistics easily that way. 5. Options for ganking were considerably more limited, it was much harder to hold a camp.
There were other factors, but on the whole logistics, alliance income, defense, personal income, and industry was very different between then and now. Anyone who's actually comparing circumstances has no idea how the game works aside from "buy a ship in highsec and go roaming around in 0.0"
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ReK42
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:15:00 -
[555]
Originally by: Holdout
This is the funniest thing I've read in weeks on the EVE forums.
This just in: Huge alliance has problem with 1 to 4 man gate camps, expects sympathy.
I guess you don't understand how small gatecamps work. It doesn't disrupt the alliance as a whole as any and all HD fleets would easily bowl over them if they were stupid enough to not safe up. What those small gangs do is **** up people who are too new to the game to know how to move about safely and, without jump bridges to cut them off, they can do it without any real risk of consequences because their smaller size and a single scout means an HD fleet will never catch them.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:15:00 -
[556]
Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
No, seriously. How? People live in hi-sec, lo-sec, NPC 0.0 and W-space with no jump bridges at all, but people who live in sov 0.0 can't get by day by day if they have to use a jump gate?
Excuse my scepticism. I trust you will understand if it seems more like you're making a fuss about a very minor change.
EDIT: and to answer the poster directly above: see my sig.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:15:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Weaselior Also the other serious problem is that JB's shouldn't bar rorquals and JFs, there's no gain to blocking them since that doesn't help you defend the cynojammed system and just again increases tedium.
Just FYI they have jump drives, and you can put up either beacons or light cynos for them, so, request denied.
Carry on.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:15:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
"Well, we thought about it a lot, but figured it didn't **** over the logi guys enough so decided to do something else instead."
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:15:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We did listen to the CSM. The changes were much further reaching initially. Their input had impact on the final product, which is vastly different than initially proposed a good while ago. To make it clear, there were also different views on the CSM regarding this change.
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ShadowandLight
Amarr Cryptonym Sleepers Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:17:00 -
[560]
ya know whats driving me crazy currently about this
is that when we ***** and complain for years about making POS setups more manageable NOTHING happens. Even just allowing people to queue up anchoring and onlining of modules would make a HUGE HUGE difference yet you do NOTHING
But when you decide that JB's are too safe and you want more PVP, you implement that change in 2 WEEKS!!!!!
Now there are hundreds of alliance logistic people ( lets be honest, its gonna be done by maybe a dozen people ) who have to redo a CRAPTON of towers and then pull down the ones that are useless
You guys are really just totally out of touch with playing eve, its pathetic. ------- "The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
Eve Online |
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:17:00 -
[561]
Edited by: Vile rat on 10/05/2011 21:18:26 Edited by: Vile rat on 10/05/2011 21:17:59
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We were able to convince them to change what they were doing to a result that was moderately better in what you see now. We have a limited amount of power as player delegates, we can lobby, try and convince, but inevitably this is their game, their product and we are only a voice. This change was going in and this represents the best outcome that could have been achieved.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:17:00 -
[562]
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang For all the people that keep bleating on and on about how there was a time when there were no jump bridges, I'd like to point out a few things.
1. Much higher levels of mineral compression were possible. 2. Rats dropped a lot more in the way of minerals, and the ratio of mins to m3 was higher as well. 3. Mining was actually profitable in 0.0 so some needs were met that way. This was before the drone regions. 4. For a large part of it, carriers could put ships with stuff in their cargohold into their hangars, and could handle logistics easily that way. 5. Options for ganking were considerably more limited, it was much harder to hold a camp.
There were other factors, but on the whole logistics, alliance income, defense, personal income, and industry was very different between then and now. Anyone who's actually comparing circumstances has no idea how the game works aside from "buy a ship in highsec and go roaming around in 0.0"
1. there will still be JBs in game that will do exactly the same thing as they did before 2. there are JFs now 3. there are cyno beacons now so you don't even need to have an alt to do your JFing 4. see 2, it's still possible to undock in Jita and land within jump range of your capital 5. alliance logistic, alliance logistic, alliance logistic, at least goons don't need to travel to get new ships for fleets
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ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:17:00 -
[563]
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang For all the people that keep bleating on and on about how there was a time when there were no jump bridges, I'd like to point out a few things.
1. Much higher levels of mineral compression were possible. 2. Rats dropped a lot more in the way of minerals, and the ratio of mins to m3 was higher as well. 3. Mining was actually profitable in 0.0 so some needs were met that way. This was before the drone regions. 4. For a large part of it, carriers could put ships with stuff in their cargohold into their hangars, and could handle logistics easily that way. 5. Options for ganking were considerably more limited, it was much harder to hold a camp.
There were other factors, but on the whole logistics, alliance income, defense, personal income, and industry was very different between then and now. Anyone who's actually comparing circumstances has no idea how the game works aside from "buy a ship in highsec and go roaming around in 0.0"
This is very true.
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Akinetopsia
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:18:00 -
[564]
Originally by: Weaselior Also the other serious problem is that JB's shouldn't bar rorquals and JFs, there's no gain to blocking them since that doesn't help you defend the cynojammed system and just again increases tedium.
i'd tell you about cycling jammers but i'm sure you have personal knowledge of certain 28 days cycles.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:18:00 -
[565]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We did listen to the CSM. The changes were much further reaching initially. Their input had impact on the final product, which is vastly different than initially proposed a good while ago. To make it clear, there were also different views on the CSM regarding this change.
Did they range from "This is ****ing ******ed" to "This is COMPLETELY ****ing ******ed"?
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Celistin
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:18:00 -
[566]
The biggest thing for me is keeping myself supplied.
I don't have a jump freighter and cyno alt. I have buy orders in jita for ship modules and I shuttle them up to nullsec so I can fit my ships.
The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:19:00 -
[567]
also let me reiterate for Rashi Nerha
let me introduce you to jump freighter
99% of alliance level logistics are already done with JFs. This will not change. Brasts |
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:19:00 -
[568]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
That's not going to change.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:20:00 -
[569]
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:20:00 -
[570]
Originally by: Celistin The biggest thing for me is keeping myself supplied.
I don't have a jump freighter and cyno alt. I have buy orders in jita for ship modules and I shuttle them up to nullsec so I can fit my ships.
Join a player owned corporation, cooperate, help them with their logistic, be a useful and good member of your chosen spaceship society and there will be people with caps and cynos and whatnot to help you.
That's the point of a MULTIplayer game
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Mattress Lover
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:21:00 -
[571]
Have any of the devs making these changes ever played Eve in 0.0? I doubt it, they are moronic and show a complete lack of understanding of the game.
As regards force projection you are just making people do 30-40 jumps instead of 5-6. Thanks for making Eve more boring and time consuming - I am completely amazed at how stupid you are.
Listen to the CSM, that's why they're there, to protect our interests.
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progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:21:00 -
[572]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We did listen to the CSM. The changes were much further reaching initially. Their input had impact on the final product, which is vastly different than initially proposed a good while ago. To make it clear, there were also different views on the CSM regarding this change.
Don't listen to the trolling, the changes are good, the CSM guys are just worried about their space empires. To quote The Mittani, "They're lieing to you." The CSM guys that is, 1 JB per system is not bad, just requires a couple of more jumps. This is the best boost to small gangs in a while though, it forces people to make defense fleets instead of not caring about their space and just playing other games. God forbid you have to actually log in except for CTA's.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:21:00 -
[573]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 21:21:25
Originally by: Celistin The biggest thing for me is keeping myself supplied.
I don't have a jump freighter and cyno alt. I have buy orders in jita for ship modules and I shuttle them up to nullsec so I can fit my ships.
The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
so you might have to :gasp: work with someone else in a MMOG? Say it ain't so! Brasts |
Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[574]
This will be a lot of laughs. First, you have a lot of NC whining. Second, you have a lot of PL ppl laughing. Third, NC will show to PL what happens when his fleet go to PL territory. Fourth, PL will cry about losing a big part of his fleet and not getting contracts to kill people as normal people that live in 0.0 can do it now "easily".
You will see ;)
PD: rest of the player base follow giving faction items to all that people, so no change at all.
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Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
Like I said, CCP has screwed up 0.0 so much that Delve - one of the best regions in the game that doesn't have technetium - is so unpleasant nobody wanted it. IT kept sov for forever after they fled back to empire because it just wasn't really worth the time. Now, it's even ****tier: it's deep 0.0 so getting there is just much more of a pain in the ass, traveling is boring as all hell. The only sov worth having is technetium sov, but CCP has implemented two hamfisted nerfs rather than fixing these broad swaths of worthless regions. Delve proved there's already so little value in 0.0 that it's starting to empty out.
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Kesslar Znel
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[576]
If making roaming ganks easier is your goal, why not bring back warp to 15 on gates?
That's sarcasm.
This game is already painful to play as it is, and the only reason any of us do is because we're total masochists, but I know dominatrices who don't put their clients through this level of abuse.
This change solves nothing and the only people happy with it are people who will never (ever) see it.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[577]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 10/05/2011 21:14:37
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: JarJar Binkz
Originally by: Cellistara What this will basically do is kill off 0.0 industry, specifically mining. We already deal with cloaky campers sitting in systems with any kind of industry index for weeks at a time, so to deal with it we take the jb from one mining system to another. Usually through a loop since systems with refining stations tend to be cyno jammed so fleets of hulks don't get a super dropped on us. Now no point in mining, no one will be able to mine enough ore to make the isk to buy new ships before the old ones explode. Can't jump a rorq anywhere since it has a jump drive, same with a JF. Guess it's wormholes or nothing now. We'll just buy everything from russian botters and import the rest from hisec, wait JF's again nvm.
NEWSFLASH: capitals can move without using gates or bridges
Basic instructions, have friend put a cyno up, right click on capacitor, click 'self destruct'
Currently: Bridges take caps to systems with cyno jammers With change: If you can jump the ship itself, you can't enter a system with a JB
That's why the cyno jammer can be put offline, and online. The procedure takes five minute or so, but it requires communication with fellow spaceship friends, this is what CCP intends, I believe.
People when not in need tend to go each for himself, that beats the point of mmorpgism philosophy of Eve Online. When people need to communicate they create better content and it makes the game more interesting, even if it is more difficult.
Deal wiz it, you'll probably have more fun over it in the long run
So we can pull out the JB and Offline the cyno jammer and move the rorq or JF, the hulks still have to just sit and spin in station because no way in hell is anyone going to move em. Of course we could get a big fleet together and escort em, but then people will do what nulli did and just camp the gates with 2 or 3 bombers, thats more than enough to kill all the hulks. Combine that with cloaky campers and nullsec mining is dead.
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El Mauru
Amarr Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[578]
I am definitely looking forward to this change. best thing to happen to .0 in a long time.
CCP should however have a look at systems in deep 0.0 and make some of those a tad more accessible- be it either by increasing the frequency of wormholes or adding additional regional jump-gates where required/needed. -
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[579]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:22:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Mattress Lover Have any of the devs making these changes ever played Eve in 0.0? I doubt it, they are moronic and show a complete lack of understanding of the game.
As regards force projection you are just making people do 30-40 jumps instead of 5-6. Thanks for making Eve more boring and time consuming - I am completely amazed at how stupid you are.
Listen to the CSM, that's why they're there, to protect our interests.
Not, they make people do 6-8 jumps instead of 5-6
Drama queen, also coming from a person that gets his ships directly from alliance in nulsec
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[581]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We did listen to the CSM. The changes were much further reaching initially. Their input had impact on the final product, which is vastly different than initially proposed a good while ago. To make it clear, there were also different views on the CSM regarding this change.
So you did the standard trick of proposing something even more ******ed, probably even ridiculous by CCP standards, and then you decide to notch it down to what you intended from the beginning, to 'accomodate' the CSM, you know we arent stupid...
The alternative is that you went beyond full ****** with your initial ideas, then again it is CCP we are talking about, with their causality model made by a 3-year-old.
@CCP, why dont you want people to actually live in 0.0? Why do you keep nerfing the ability for the common grunt to live in 0.0 and force them to do their day to day living in high sec and only come to 0.0 for pvp? Is that the goal CCP has in mind with 0.0, some kind of pvp battleground, instead of empire building?
And why cant you get the idea in your head that more conflict drivers and easier destruction (like here removing large part of your defense against an opponent who outnumbers you by making it harder to have your own caps under cyno jammer) means larger powerblocks because peopel still need some degree of safety. As example here, one of the very few defenses you have against an opponent who is seriously larger/stronger than you are is caps under cynojammer, it is purely defensive and means you do not have the bigger blob. Now you severely nerf that ability, what do you think that means for the smaller group who also wants to do something in 0.0 without napping everyone? Two possibilities, they are either overrun or they join a larger powerblock, since if you remove a defense against blobs, they go to the only other possibility, making sure you are in the bigger blob than your opponents (which is the reason i joined the NC, being overrun by larger enemy groups got kinda boring, so I decided to join a large powerblock).
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XavierVE
Reasonable People
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[582]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Best place for jump bridges are at planets, visible on overview like a stargate is, and only one per system. You got the one per system right, just need to move them off POS's and off to a planet next to i-hubs.
Great job though, nice to see some positive changes making superblocs something less than 100% totally secure. Can't wait to go camp some chokepoints.
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[583]
Originally by: Martin Mckenna
Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 10/05/2011 20:58:33
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to..
dramiels, cynabals, machs, ****ed ECCM mechanics making ships unprobable and cloaks with or without afk .. not to mention invulnerable npc stations.
Where's the balance?
The "invulnerable" npc space you talk about is to cater to groups of player who dont have 700 man blobs and they also help in the transition for new players from empire to 0.0. Without them it would not be possible to live in 0.0 without being in a major alliance.
Aye Martin, but they don't have to be INVULNERABLE. They can be really tough . they can be self repairing .. they can have invulnerable stronger defence guns ... but untouchable? PvP in nullsec should NEVER be avoidable if the enemy is determined enough, except temporarily.
Also .. afk cloaking . what's THAT all about?
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gnome proper
Lost Souls Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[584]
Absolutely love the change. It will personally affect me both as a resident and invader. That's awesome!
Bonuspoints for exposing the idiocy of people complaining cluelessly about the change. If they are that stupid, they shouldn't be able to claim sov to begin with (there's an idea!)
It's a game, it changes over time... :blown mind:
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[585]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We did listen to the CSM. The changes were much further reaching initially. Their input had impact on the final product, which is vastly different than initially proposed a good while ago. To make it clear, there were also different views on the CSM regarding this change.
So basically what you are getting is this:
-Any planned change before the election of the new CSM is good to go. -Any change that CSM is conflicted on is a go. -Any change that is overcomplicated and will not yield desired results is a go.
You seem to be stubborn and set in your ways. People in this thread are asking you why not remove JBs from POS and then make them visible to the entire system? How would that not accomplish what you are looking for? Why increase the number of jumps?
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[586]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:23:00 -
[587]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Make it so they are not at a POS and show on the overview like gates?
Just make a JB effectively the same as a gate in terms of how they work in game, with the addition of fuel and ownership.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:24:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
No, seriously. How? People live in hi-sec, lo-sec, NPC 0.0 and W-space with no jump bridges at all, but people who live in sov 0.0 can't get by day by day if they have to use a jump gate?
Excuse my scepticism. I trust you will understand if it seems more like you're making a fuss about a very minor change.
EDIT: and to answer the poster directly above: see my sig.
Did you read the bit that said Capitals can't use JBs? Which in effect means you can't defend a Cyno Jammed system with Capital.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Mattress Lover Have any of the devs making these changes ever played Eve in 0.0? I doubt it, they are moronic and show a complete lack of understanding of the game.
As regards force projection you are just making people do 30-40 jumps instead of 5-6. Thanks for making Eve more boring and time consuming - I am completely amazed at how stupid you are.
Listen to the CSM, that's why they're there, to protect our interests.
its almost like they're trying to make eve a big place you can't get from one side of to the other in 10 minutes Brasts |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[590]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Make the jump-in point 10km from the JB, remove guns from the pos, and it's a neutral zone just like a stargate, there's no advantage to someone fighting a ganker compared to a stargate at all. You also are ignoring the beacon for the JB which would just reuse TCU code.
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ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[591]
Originally by: Vile rat Edited by: Vile rat on 10/05/2011 21:18:26 Edited by: Vile rat on 10/05/2011 21:17:59
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Vile rat
Originally by: Smoking Blunts what is the point in the csm if you can not speak for us on changes that are stupid
We did.
so what is the point of the csm if ccp dosnt listern to them on stupid changes they push through?
We were able to convince them to change what they were doing to a result that was moderately better in what you see now. We have a limited amount of power as player delegates, we can lobby, try and convince, but inevitably this is their game, their product and we are only a voice. This change was going in and this represents the best outcome that could have been achieved.
To help the player base understand how the CSM is useful, it would be nice to see the original changes proposed by ccp, the alterations proposed by the CSM as well as the final product.
From CCPs point of view I can understand why they dont want this level of transparency. The level of ridicule leveled in their direction would be incredible.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[592]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Celistin The biggest thing for me is keeping myself supplied.
I don't have a jump freighter and cyno alt. I have buy orders in jita for ship modules and I shuttle them up to nullsec so I can fit my ships.
Join a player owned corporation, cooperate, help them with their logistic, be a useful and good member of your chosen spaceship society and there will be people with caps and cynos and whatnot to help you.
That's the point of a MULTIplayer game
Its much better/easier to just get that 2nd account for a noob scout or cynoalt.
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Nevigrofnu Mrots
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[593]
Edited by: Nevigrofnu Mrots on 10/05/2011 21:25:32 http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9645703
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[594]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So it is an issue that players have a chance of defending themselves? Because right now both for industrials and any kind of pve ship, the only defense against a pvp ship is not being caught. Get caught, you die. Dont get caught, you dont die.
So since you say here you think it should be impossible to evade being caught by being careful and watching out, how long do you think an industrial player stays in 0.0 when he gets ganked repeatedly without anything he can do about it (since you say that is what you want, you should die even if you are careful, watch out and got a scout). Why not just randomly let pve/industrial ships explode in 0.0?
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Acki Juc
Caldari 0utbreak Outbreak.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:25:00 -
[595]
I support this very small step in the right direction. CCP still has a lot to work on before the game is 'good' again. |
Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:26:00 -
[596]
Originally by: rofflesausage Make it so they are not at a POS and show on the overview like gates?
Just make a JB effectively the same as a gate in terms of how they work in game, with the addition of fuel and ownership.
There is a reason why there is such a thing as "shallow 0.0" and "deep 0.0".
Otherwise there'd be empire gates in omist and tenal, no?
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Balthamel Eval'Raman
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:26:00 -
[597]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:26:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
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CheckingAmarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:27:00 -
[599]
Edited by: CheckingAmarr on 10/05/2011 21:27:03
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So, uh, if people read intel and scout themselves, they're nearly impossible to catch at JBs/cynogens but not nearly impossible to catch going through a gate? What exactly will your change fix for smart players who use intel and scouts, and wish to avoid combat?
That's right: nothing.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:27:00 -
[600]
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
No, seriously. How? People live in hi-sec, lo-sec, NPC 0.0 and W-space with no jump bridges at all, but people who live in sov 0.0 can't get by day by day if they have to use a jump gate?
Excuse my scepticism. I trust you will understand if it seems more like you're making a fuss about a very minor change.
EDIT: and to answer the poster directly above: see my sig.
Did you read the bit that said Capitals can't use JBs? Which in effect means you can't defend a Cyno Jammed system with Capital.
or you take it down, jump the capital in, then put it back up? Evens the playing field vs. now when you can basically block out an entire system by putting 20 supers on a jammer pos and just chill Brasts |
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:27:00 -
[601]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Is this an official endorsement that gatecamping = CCP's idea of PvP? ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:27:00 -
[602]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Sorry, I actually quoted the wrong post for my question - a few other posts suggested stripping POS guns from JBs as well as making them show up on everyone's overview. I understand your point about "neutral" structures - but as far as I can tell, this proposed change would achieve your small-gang PVP goals without the significant side effects of making logistics more miserable than they already are and effectively boosting caps and supercaps even further relative to subcaps.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:27:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: Mattress Lover Have any of the devs making these changes ever played Eve in 0.0? I doubt it, they are moronic and show a complete lack of understanding of the game.
As regards force projection you are just making people do 30-40 jumps instead of 5-6. Thanks for making Eve more boring and time consuming - I am completely amazed at how stupid you are.
Listen to the CSM, that's why they're there, to protect our interests.
its almost like they're trying to make eve a big place you can't get from one side of to the other in 10 minutes
Lol!
Coming from the alliance with the highest number of jump capable ships / char...
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WarriorTooth
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:28:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Furb Killer So it is an issue that players have a chance of defending themselves? Because right now both for industrials and any kind of pve ship, the only defense against a pvp ship is not being caught. Get caught, you die. Dont get caught, you dont die.
So since you say here you think it should be impossible to evade being caught by being careful and watching out, how long do you think an industrial player stays in 0.0 when he gets ganked repeatedly without anything he can do about it (since you say that is what you want, you should die even if you are careful, watch out and got a scout). Why not just randomly let pve/industrial ships explode in 0.0?
It's priority for industrialists as it is to have JFs to haul their stuff from far far away because alliances shout at people using JBs for big ships.
That will not change and ganking on gates isn't what really happens unless you are a ******, and a ****** without spaceship friends at that
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Lisa Tsutola
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:29:00 -
[605]
Haha. Awesome change and awesome tears.
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6tg
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:29:00 -
[606]
I agree, i have watched as nerf bat after nerf bat has been applied, with regards only to how the effects are on larger allainces or groups with no care of what happens to the individual that loves to plex enough to buy a ship to go then pvp in. here is what i am seeing. Beep CCP players making enough isk to afford plex.... Beep playing for free cannot be tolerated.... Beep CCP nerf the anoms making half of 0.0 useless. Beep How can we keep the normal player buying plex and fattening the CCP wallet? Nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf .........
Enough time to play a game where i can play a game not be a GD slave to the isk.... i want to play not spend all my TIME screwing about for ISK. ! once more i agree with the other players I've had enough..... i cant count at least 700 players i play with that are fed up with this kind of crap!
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BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:29:00 -
[607]
Ships with jump drives, meh.
1 jump bridge per system? Horrible idea, just horrible...
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CheckingAmarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:29:00 -
[608]
CCP, where increasing tedium somehow leads to more vibrant gameplay and a larger nullsec playerbase.
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Molly Roger
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:29:00 -
[609]
Edited by: Molly Roger on 10/05/2011 21:31:32 Ya know, CCP may not want to stir the pot in null for the time being, considering all of null will soon band together to take out the boters and RMTers that has been ignored.
EDIT: Also, many alliances have yet to recover from the last null sec nerf. Considering running L4s in empire is far more profitable for a single pilot now.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:29:00 -
[610]
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
When an organisation is formulating a major plan, that will potentially have widespread long term effects, it simple common sense to put small isolated changes on hold until the big picture is clear. Making a small isolated change while planning a major long term progression can have drastic results on the long term effects. I believe the term for these effects has been coined as the "butterfly effect". Do you understand this concept?
Maybe they should stop releasing bug fixes while they figure out this plan too. Maybe they should leave ship balance alone while they figure out the plan? As they said, they feel this is an isolated thing that's going to be part of the changes no matter what. And, they feel that they damage the game as a whole. Why should they delay the rollout? -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Senhu Kudoma
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:30:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
its almost like they're trying to make eve a big place you can't get from one side of to the other in 10 minutes
So in other words, terrible, miserable, and no fun. Remember warp to 15? It also made gate camping easier and travel slower and it was *awful*.
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rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:30:00 -
[612]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: rofflesausage Make it so they are not at a POS and show on the overview like gates?
Just make a JB effectively the same as a gate in terms of how they work in game, with the addition of fuel and ownership.
There is a reason why there is such a thing as "shallow 0.0" and "deep 0.0".
Otherwise there'd be empire gates in omist and tenal, no?
I'm talking about how they show on the overview and have no guns around them, not how they link.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:30:00 -
[613]
Originally by: WarriorTooth
Originally by: Furb Killer So it is an issue that players have a chance of defending themselves? Because right now both for industrials and any kind of pve ship, the only defense against a pvp ship is not being caught. Get caught, you die. Dont get caught, you dont die.
So since you say here you think it should be impossible to evade being caught by being careful and watching out, how long do you think an industrial player stays in 0.0 when he gets ganked repeatedly without anything he can do about it (since you say that is what you want, you should die even if you are careful, watch out and got a scout). Why not just randomly let pve/industrial ships explode in 0.0?
It's priority for industrialists as it is to have JFs to haul their stuff from far far away because alliances shout at people using JBs for big ships.
That will not change and ganking on gates isn't what really happens unless you are a ******, and a ****** without spaceship friends at that
Not relevant, he said that even with watching out and scouting you still should die to gatecamps, so he wants to change the game such that no matter how careful you are, you still get ganked without anything you can do about it.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:30:00 -
[614]
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Is this an official endorsement that gatecamping = CCP's idea of PvP?
PVP isn't a singular activity. Gatecamping and killing people is one form of PVP. I'm not going to rank the different types, I'd prefer if they were all happening to some degree. If you have people camping your space, you should do more to secure it.
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progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:30:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
Like I said, CCP has screwed up 0.0 so much that Delve - one of the best regions in the game that doesn't have technetium - is so unpleasant nobody wanted it. IT kept sov for forever after they fled back to empire because it just wasn't really worth the time. Now, it's even ****tier: it's deep 0.0 so getting there is just much more of a pain in the ass, traveling is boring as all hell. The only sov worth having is technetium sov, but CCP has implemented two hamfisted nerfs rather than fixing these broad swaths of worthless regions. Delve proved there's already so little value in 0.0 that it's starting to empty out.
This is the most untrue statement I have ever seen.
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:31:00 -
[616]
My stance on this is nuanced. I approve of this in part, and oppose it in part. Mostly, I approve; my opposition is entirely based on the timing of the nerf in relation to the planned nullsec improvements coming later in the development cycle which Soundwave mentioned in his blog.
In my view, given how set on a bridge nerf CCP was, one bridge/system was the most modest change we could negotiate them down to. The fact that CCP was willing to throw in a fuel bay buff when I suggested it was a last-minute change which helped take some of the sting off, and I was pleased by this willingness on their part.
My stance is 'political' because I don't believe in fighting impossible battles. If CCP makes it clear they want a bridge nerf of some flavor, I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it; I'm going to try to find the best, most reasonable accommodation and advocate for that. Some of the nullsec CSM reps took a hard line against any bridge nerf at all, and I opted to back the one I found most reasonable instead.
My personal view is that 1 bridge/system is acceptable when packaged with a suite of changes to add 'Farms and Fields' to nullsec. As an avid Sabre ganker, I think 1 bridge/1 system will allow alliances who have their **** together to function just fine, while those alliances who are less organized will suffer greatly.
I did argue against this change being implemented in a vacuum, however, as in my view it should have been rolled out during the range of proposed changes that Soundwave mentioned in his blog, rather than hot on the heels of the anomaly nerf with no improvements to line-member nullsec gameplay until winter-ish or later. That's the core of my disagreement, the timing, not the nerf itself.
As this has occurred in a vacuum, outside of the nullsec overhaul, the balance of the game swings ever more towards the 'PL Model' where sovholding entities can be attacked with no recourse from entities living in perfect safety in NPC 0.0. I am going to be exploring the possibilities of having NPC 0.0 station services made vulnerable. If nullsec is going to be a zone where everyone kicks each other in the balls on a daily basis (and I'm comfortable with that), those in NPC 0.0 should enjoy a little ball-kicking too.
I don't think capships should use bridges. Never have. vOv
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:31:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Furb Killer That will not change and ganking on gates isn't what really happens unless you are a ******, and a ****** without spaceship friends at that
Not relevant, he said that even with watching out and scouting you still should die to gatecamps, so he wants to change the game such that no matter how careful you are, you still get ganked without anything you can do about it.
Don't dramatize, they aren't making gankers randomly invisible on overview, they're making people jump a gate between using jump bridges
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:32:00 -
[618]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
Make it so that JB pos shields are un-enterable.
And as for reinforcements - yes, because god help that in a system which hundreds of players spent thousands of collective man hours grinding RF timers on, in space which they've spent thousands of hours and potentially billions of isk upgrading and paying sov bills for, the defenders should have an advantage of getting reinforcements through a single jump bridge. </sarcasm>
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:32:00 -
[619]
Kudos CCP, a change int he right direction and even tho this will produce no less whining than the nano and web nerf, itll be just as healthy for the game. Looking forward to more breaking with the old. -
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CHAOS100
The Ankou Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:33:00 -
[620]
Good changes. The south got nerfed with the Sanctum nerf, now the north gets its turn with jump bridge nerf. EAT IT --------------
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:33:00 -
[621]
They are only getting that you have to protect "your" system. Won't allow that a 100 member alliance have 5-6 systems of his ownership.
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Suitonia
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:33:00 -
[622]
I agree with the changes and I think this will result in more casual PVP and people having to spend more time actually policing their space, 7 days notice is a little harsh though. ---
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:34:00 -
[623]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 10/05/2011 21:34:12
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Furb Killer That will not change and ganking on gates isn't what really happens unless you are a ******, and a ****** without spaceship friends at that
Not relevant, he said that even with watching out and scouting you still should die to gatecamps, so he wants to change the game such that no matter how careful you are, you still get ganked without anything you can do about it.
Don't dramatize, they aren't making gankers randomly invisible on overview, they're making people jump a gate between using jump bridges
I feel like repeating myself, but he said that even if you watch out, are careful and have a scout you SHOULD still die, so without anything you can do about it.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:34:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Svennig And as for reinforcements - yes, because god help that in a system which hundreds of players spent thousands of collective man hours grinding RF timers on, in space which they've spent thousands of hours and potentially billions of isk upgrading and paying sov bills for, the defenders should have an advantage of getting reinforcements through a single jump bridge. </sarcasm>
As far as I understood, defenders will still have a single jump bridge to receive reinforcements from, they will also control whether the cyno jammer is up or not.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:34:00 -
[625]
Originally by: FellRaven Did you read the bit that said Capitals can't use JBs? Which in effect means you can't defend a Cyno Jammed system with Capital.
A few comments: - Obviously they won't have capitals either... - Maybe you could take the cyno jammer down while you let your army in/out? It'd be kinda like opening the gate and making sure that you have your forces on standby should the enemy sally forth to attack? - Maybe just have spare caps stationed in system?
Seems like this is a surmountable problem.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:35:00 -
[626]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
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Elektra Ashbringer
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[627]
What will this mean to a mere sup cap pilot in 0.0 ?
- Your only way to travel to highsec is removed because everyone know where to gate camp now, you are guaranteed traffic on those gates (like the one from 0.0 to lowsec always is camped)
- You can't live in 0.0 unless you are able to fly capitals, and that takes not only months of farming in isk for skills and ship, but months of training just to sit in it, and then you need months of training to get jump range skills up, and this still requires you to use at least 2 accounts for cyno-alts, or at least POS'es with cyno fields on.
--------------
If you wanted to balance 0.0, try removing afk cloak campers in ratting systems, that when they can be bothered hot drop a few moms on top of you, reducing the days income to 0 isk, and with the JB's down, a sub cap pilot can't get a new ratting ship.
Making high end moons more available, would require another income for alliances/corps, and this could be the more ratting that would be available if people couldn't afk camp your system.
Only a 1 sec cool down on a JB would cause a 120 man fleet to wait at least 2 minutes before the fleet is through, and in that time they might as well just have jumped using stargates, and the JB's would still be available to the logistics with 1-2 freighter a week!
Too bad so many tears inhere floods the thread and no one who can make a difference ever read semi-serious threads! |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[628]
Originally by: CHAOS100 Good changes. The south got nerfed with the Sanctum nerf, now the north gets its turn with jump bridge nerf. EAT IT
Just an FYI, the DRF got the top 8 truesec regions, the NC got except providence pretty much all the worst truesec regions, just saying...
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progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[629]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Is this an official endorsement that gatecamping = CCP's idea of PvP?
PVP isn't a singular activity. Gatecamping and killing people is one form of PVP. I'm not going to rank the different types, I'd prefer if they were all happening to some degree. If you have people camping your space, you should do more to secure it.
Exactly
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Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[630]
Originally by: CHAOS100 Good changes. The south got nerfed with the Sanctum nerf, now the north gets its turn with jump bridge nerf. EAT IT
Pure Blind got a brutal fist ****ing as well.
meh
CCP's Vision for eve seems to be make it as fun as group sex in prison.
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Molly Roger
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[631]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: FellRaven
- Maybe just have spare caps stationed in system?
-Liang
LOL, I will just make another titan and leave it laying around.
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Captain'o'Captain
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[632]
Edited by: Captain''o''Captain on 10/05/2011 21:38:52 Hang on there for a second... You have any clue how difficult nullsec logistics are? Especially for the new guys who don't have capital ships themselves. One there's the trust issue, do your really want to give your stuff to some dude you just met, then there's the whole: "Where do you guys live... oh... that's like 40 jumps through red dots...".
Then there is the fact that tritanium, outside of the drone regions, is up and above 95% (I rly just made that number up) imported from jita, by means of buying a load of t1 modules, ammunition... stuff... and then melting it down to get the billion or so trit you need to build a titan with... and you can only build em in nullsec, in very expensive and vulnerable POS... And you need to do the hauling of the capital components with freighters, possibly from different factory outpost that are all located in different systems.
Right now you're just making the life of the "logistics" guys a living hell, you're just nerfing random stuff without even considering the whole picture. Yes JB's need some... attention... yes they're overpowered when it comes to big alliances... but what you got there is just plain stupid and it doesn't change anything because once you get pass the 10 or so odd jumps from empire into nullsec, you'll never see random neutrals camping gates, unless they came from a WH.. lol.
To put it this way deep nullsec is widely regarded as one of the safest places you can be at, because nobody will bother to travel 40+ jumps deep into 0.0 for a gate camp, or a roam. Nerfing JB's wont change that at all and again only entry systems +3 will pose any real danger to the nullsec dwellers.
Counter proposal was somewhere in the assembly halls... detach the JB's from the POSes make them anchorable around planets for example and visible system wide like gates. That way JB's will only serve for what they're rly ment, easing the logistics and shortening travel time of the nullsec alliances, without providing any additional safety.
edit > page 22 snipe :)
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[633]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Cut the drama :) In cyno jammed systems the defender will still be able to use jump bridges to his advantage and will have a safe spot to shield titans which will in turn drop people outside of cyno jammed systems.
You ~~~ control their game ~~~ and are still whining about it
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:36:00 -
[634]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang For all the people that keep bleating on and on about how there was a time when there were no jump bridges, I'd like to point out a few things.
1. Much higher levels of mineral compression were possible. 2. Rats dropped a lot more in the way of minerals, and the ratio of mins to m3 was higher as well. 3. Mining was actually profitable in 0.0 so some needs were met that way. This was before the drone regions. 4. For a large part of it, carriers could put ships with stuff in their cargohold into their hangars, and could handle logistics easily that way. 5. Options for ganking were considerably more limited, it was much harder to hold a camp.
There were other factors, but on the whole logistics, alliance income, defense, personal income, and industry was very different between then and now. Anyone who's actually comparing circumstances has no idea how the game works aside from "buy a ship in highsec and go roaming around in 0.0"
1. there will still be JBs in game that will do exactly the same thing as they did before 2. there are JFs now 3. there are cyno beacons now so you don't even need to have an alt to do your JFing 4. see 2, it's still possible to undock in Jita and land within jump range of your capital 5. alliance logistic, alliance logistic, alliance logistic, at least goons don't need to travel to get new ships for fleets
I'm responding to the people who want to remove jump bridges entirely under the idea that it'll be just like it was before. These changes'll hurt individuals more than alliances, but they don't put us in the same spot we were pre-jump bridges. Read post before responding.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:37:00 -
[635]
Originally by: CheckingAmarr Edited by: CheckingAmarr on 10/05/2011 21:27:03
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So, uh, if people read intel and scout themselves, they're nearly impossible to catch at JBs/cynogens but not nearly impossible to catch going through a gate? What exactly will your change fix for smart players who use intel and scouts, and wish to avoid combat?
That's right: nothing.
But it will make a difference. You never have 100% correct intel, and it's nearly impossible to get intel on every single system in a region. People make mistakes, and things go unnoticed. If you only have to really pay attention to the two unjammed systems in your bridge route it's a lot easier to be safe than if all the systems have to be unjammed, and if you're using jumpbridges to go from deathstar to deathstar you're far less likely to be killed by the single guy who slipped through the area unnoted by the intel channel than if you're going through stargates.
It's not to say that you're never safe, that's certainly not the point. the point is to have more opportunities to make mistakes.
Brasts |
Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:37:00 -
[636]
Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
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Zhentor
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:37:00 -
[637]
Any comment on the timing of the change? Aside from the laughably obvious interaction with the current 0.0 warfare, ironically something which CCP attempts to avoid in game, by not reducing lag / moving servers mid battle / paying attention ? As you've already pointed out that this has been in discussion for quite some time, how is now considered the appropriate time to roll it out?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:37:00 -
[638]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:38:00 -
[639]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
No, seriously. How? People live in hi-sec, lo-sec, NPC 0.0 and W-space with no jump bridges at all, but people who live in sov 0.0 can't get by day by day if they have to use a jump gate?
Excuse my scepticism. I trust you will understand if it seems more like you're making a fuss about a very minor change.
EDIT: and to answer the poster directly above: see my sig.
Did you read the bit that said Capitals can't use JBs? Which in effect means you can't defend a Cyno Jammed system with Capital.
or you take it down, jump the capital in, then put it back up? Evens the playing field vs. now when you can basically block out an entire system by putting 20 supers on a jammer pos and just chill
But isn't that the point of holding and paying for SOV?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:38:00 -
[640]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
Like I said, CCP has screwed up 0.0 so much that Delve - one of the best regions in the game that doesn't have technetium - is so unpleasant nobody wanted it. IT kept sov for forever after they fled back to empire because it just wasn't really worth the time. Now, it's even ****tier: it's deep 0.0 so getting there is just much more of a pain in the ass, traveling is boring as all hell. The only sov worth having is technetium sov, but CCP has implemented two hamfisted nerfs rather than fixing these broad swaths of worthless regions. Delve proved there's already so little value in 0.0 that it's starting to empty out.
Perhaps so, but what does this have to do with JBs being lightly nerfed? Spell it out for me.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:39:00 -
[641]
Originally by: Captain'o'Captain Hang on there for a second... You have any clue how difficult nullsec logistics are? Especially for the new guys who don't have capital ships themselves. One there's the trust issue, do your really want to give your stuff to some dude you just met, then there's the whole: "Where do you guys live... oh... that's like 40 jumps through red dots...".
You should have a friend help you out, so you play together and form in-game bonds, like in a mmorpg or something
oh wai-
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:39:00 -
[642]
Edited by: WisdomPanda on 10/05/2011 21:40:08
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Is this an official endorsement that gatecamping = CCP's idea of PvP?
PVP isn't a singular activity. Gatecamping and killing people is one form of PVP. I'm not going to rank the different types, I'd prefer if they were all happening to some degree. If you have people camping your space, you should do more to secure it.
You see, you say that, but then you make a change that will only effect one aspect. If people want to gate camp, you can not stop them. You called this awesome system "cloaks". If you gave me a way to counter this, you might have a point. But currently the only option is to sit on gates for hours, hoping they don't log off. This is your idea of fun and a flagship PvP? (It isn't, or you'd make a trailer about it.)
Why not buff other elements instead of just forcing people through more gates? Why not make them think more about how to catch out people who have invested a lot of time and isk to make their space better for their alliance? In fact, how about just "why?" in general. Why now? Why JB's? Why aren't you waiting until you have a remote idea of the full impacts of your changes?
I always use to be the positive guy when people would bash CCP too, you're not giving me any love here man. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:39:00 -
[643]
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
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capn gump
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:39:00 -
[644]
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I know, its terrible flying through dek, venal branch etc
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progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:39:00 -
[645]
Originally by: The Mittani My stance on this is nuanced. I approve of this in part, and oppose it in part. Mostly, I approve; my opposition is entirely based on the timing of the nerf in relation to the planned nullsec improvements coming later in the development cycle which Soundwave mentioned in his blog.
In my view, given how set on a bridge nerf CCP was, one bridge/system was the most modest change we could negotiate them down to. The fact that CCP was willing to throw in a fuel bay buff when I suggested it was a last-minute change which helped take some of the sting off, and I was pleased by this willingness on their part.
My stance is 'political' because I don't believe in fighting impossible battles. If CCP makes it clear they want a bridge nerf of some flavor, I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it; I'm going to try to find the best, most reasonable accommodation and advocate for that. Some of the nullsec CSM reps took a hard line against any bridge nerf at all, and I opted to back the one I found most reasonable instead.
My personal view is that 1 bridge/system is acceptable when packaged with a suite of changes to add 'Farms and Fields' to nullsec. As an avid Sabre ganker, I think 1 bridge/1 system will allow alliances who have their **** together to function just fine, while those alliances who are less organized will suffer greatly.
I did argue against this change being implemented in a vacuum, however, as in my view it should have been rolled out during the range of proposed changes that Soundwave mentioned in his blog, rather than hot on the heels of the anomaly nerf with no improvements to line-member nullsec gameplay until winter-ish or later. That's the core of my disagreement, the timing, not the nerf itself.
As this has occurred in a vacuum, outside of the nullsec overhaul, the balance of the game swings ever more towards the 'PL Model' where sovholding entities can be attacked with no recourse from entities living in perfect safety in NPC 0.0. I am going to be exploring the possibilities of having NPC 0.0 station services made vulnerable. If nullsec is going to be a zone where everyone kicks each other in the balls on a daily basis (and I'm comfortable with that), those in NPC 0.0 should enjoy a little ball-kicking too.
I don't think capships should use bridges. Never have. vOv
I'm actually presently surprised by this. I couldn't agree more with most of your points, including the NPC 0.0 invulnerability being a problem. Good stuff.
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CheckingAmarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:40:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: CheckingAmarr Edited by: CheckingAmarr on 10/05/2011 21:27:03
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So, uh, if people read intel and scout themselves, they're nearly impossible to catch at JBs/cynogens but not nearly impossible to catch going through a gate? What exactly will your change fix for smart players who use intel and scouts, and wish to avoid combat?
That's right: nothing.
(words)
That's a Fox News level of spin, directly contradicting your own statement ("If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.") after it's used against you.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:41:00 -
[647]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
Interesting only none SOV holding "Roaming" alliances agree with you.
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Cosmoes
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:41:00 -
[648]
Give goals for small gang to hit....
I think you tried this with station services and putting pos modules outside of poses but neither of these worked that well.
Oh and "God is an afk cloaker" ------------------- piccy |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:41:00 -
[649]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
The attacker wants combat, has organization pre-set up (no need to form a defense gang or such nonsense) can select for "what they can afford to lose", picks the location of the fight, picks the time of the fight, can pre-select shiptypes to increase the power of their gang (right number of logis to other ships, all one type of tank, ect). The attacker has huge advantages you don't consider here.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:41:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Originally by: CHAOS100 Good changes. The south got nerfed with the Sanctum nerf, now the north gets its turn with jump bridge nerf. EAT IT
Pure Blind got a brutal fist ****ing as well.
meh
CCP's Vision for eve seems to be make it as fun as group sex in prison.
The best thing they could do to combat botting is to realise that people want to automate sections of the game which are boring as watching paint dry. And yet, they want to add more of the same to the game. Let's bore people to tears by making them take gates to fleet fights.
They'll definitely enjoy the "Warp to gate, gate is red, gate is red, FOR ****S SAKE GATE IS RED WHAT THE **** IS WRONG WITH YOU" happening five times more often. Just think, they get to enjoy aligning to gate EVEN MORE now. More aligning is more fun, people. They get to see the warp effect for longer. Gotta watch that sun fly by and see it change the shadows on your hull! Isn't that a neat effect? You get to see it more now. CCP: giving players what they always knew they never wanted.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:42:00 -
[651]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
Don't talk about the taboo topic. Maybe they decide to do something XD
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:42:00 -
[652]
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
Quite possibly the single most eloquent post I have seen showing the need for this change.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Deakka
Caldari NED-Clan Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:42:00 -
[653]
The goal is understandable. But the reasoning is flawed.
The jump bridges are simply different stargates. Shortcuts yes, but you are still in space an equal amount of time during that timeframe. Also you are more likely to encounter players as these jump bridges are for a reason in that system: because it's a point of interest.
That said, I do agree that for a PvP perspective it would be nice to nerf the safety a bit. But you can do that with other tools. More in the direction of a presence of a certain thing, like a SBU blocking JB travel. Because now it is hitting safespace travel aswel. And I see no reason why an alliance shouldn't have a fast infrastructure within it's own space.
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Captain'o'Captain
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:42:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Captain'o'Captain Hang on there for a second... You have any clue how difficult nullsec logistics are? Especially for the new guys who don't have capital ships themselves. One there's the trust issue, do your really want to give your stuff to some dude you just met, then there's the whole: "Where do you guys live... oh... that's like 40 jumps through red dots...".
You should have a friend help you out, so you play together and form in-game bonds, like in a mmorpg or something
oh wai-
that wasn't the point... but you're right i should have left that part out ^^
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:43:00 -
[655]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:43:00 -
[656]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
Not to mention a ****tonne of timers too. Lets face it, pretty much everyone has been agreed that current sov mechanics favour the defenders greatly, so now one thing tips the scale for the better and its "ZOMG DEFENDERS HAVE NO CHANCE!".
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:43:00 -
[657]
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Malcanis Edited by: Malcanis on 10/05/2011 21:15:17 I'm genuinely interested to know how having to do a couple of warps between each bridge will "kill 0.0"
No, seriously. How? People live in hi-sec, lo-sec, NPC 0.0 and W-space with no jump bridges at all, but people who live in sov 0.0 can't get by day by day if they have to use a jump gate?
Excuse my scepticism. I trust you will understand if it seems more like you're making a fuss about a very minor change.
EDIT: and to answer the poster directly above: see my sig.
Did you read the bit that said Capitals can't use JBs? Which in effect means you can't defend a Cyno Jammed system with Capital.
or you take it down, jump the capital in, then put it back up? Evens the playing field vs. now when you can basically block out an entire system by putting 20 supers on a jammer pos and just chill
But isn't that the point of holding and paying for SOV?
So if you can't have fights where you have caps and the attacker doesn't, you cant hold 0.0?
Not... really seeing a problem here.
Incidentally, I'm loving reading the same people who voiciferously denied that JBs make any difference in 0.0 power projection also whining about having to make "30 jump" trips.
Gosh, anyone see a minor dichotomy there? Almost as if... as if it will be come more attractive to not have space blue for 30 jumps in every direction if you actually have to travel those 30 jumps to get a fight?
But really, it isn't 30 jumps is it? It's +1 jump per bridge. So insteadof being 3-4 bridges to get to the war zone, it's 3-4 bridges plus 3-4 jumps. Really, 8 session changes are too much? No, not really.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Celistin
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:44:00 -
[658]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Celistin The biggest thing for me is keeping myself supplied.
I don't have a jump freighter and cyno alt. I have buy orders in jita for ship modules and I shuttle them up to nullsec so I can fit my ships.
Join a player owned corporation, cooperate, help them with their logistic, be a useful and good member of your chosen spaceship society and there will be people with caps and cynos and whatnot to help you.
That's the point of a MULTIplayer game
no ****? other people play this game?
I love how the biggest counter to the NC crying is from the one alliance in this game that will benefit the most from this nerf.
Your opinion means **** all when you own **** for space, run level 4s in highsec for income, and are capable of dropping 150 man supercap fleets.
Ultimately I dont care, I'm gonna keep doing what I gotta do to play. I was shuttling mods and implants in a warpstabbed kestrel when I moved to nullsec, now I can fly transports, so I'll be ok.
I can guarantee there wont be more gang on gang pvp though.
I actually active rat for income and I fleet up for home defense so I know what happens when the l33t dudes like PL and merciless come out.
They drop a bunch of stragglers / miners / ratters then leave off to some other area of space to do it some more. It is really rare when we get an actual gang vs gang fight that isnt a sov fight.
What will happen now when we fleet up is that a handful of pilots will get killed trying to meet up with the fleet and when we finally get formed up we wont be able to catch the enemy fleet cause they are 15 jumps ahead of us now.
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ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:44:00 -
[659]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
With the Eve Online is really played, a well organised gank gang: Has access to the pos shields of the said jumpbridges. Has access to defenders intel channels. Has ability to log off and wait in system with "blue eyes" and log in when a juicy target arrives on gate.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:44:00 -
[660]
Originally by: The Mittani
As this has occurred in a vacuum, outside of the nullsec overhaul, the balance of the game swings ever more towards the 'PL Model' where sovholding entities can be attacked with no recourse from entities living in perfect safety in NPC 0.0. I am going to be exploring the possibilities of having NPC 0.0 station services made vulnerable. If nullsec is going to be a zone where everyone kicks each other in the balls on a daily basis (and I'm comfortable with that), those in NPC 0.0 should enjoy a little ball-kicking too.
A few comments: - It seems like the "perpetual" balance would shift dramatically away from NPC 0.0 people once Farms+Fields went live. - I don't remember being able to build supercaps in NPC 0.0? - I don't remember being able to upgrade NPC 0.0 space? - I doubt you could get that implemented before farms+fields, so it seems like it's simply a spiteful thing to argue for.
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:44:00 -
[661]
Edited by: Cynthia Ysolde on 10/05/2011 21:44:40
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower?
I dont' get how this change is mysteriously preventing you from being able to jump through your systems, using blackops(or titan) to bridge, or even using jump bridges to move around. It just won't be as easy.
There are a lot of other ways to move around or slow your opponent down, and your reliance solely on jump bridges for defense is somewhat confusing.
If you can't kill the guys in your own space, with your own stations/poses/capitals/jump bridges(albeit fewer) nearby then maybe you shouldn't own the space. I don't see how the attacker has any advantages here. Brasts |
progodlegend
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:45:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
The attacker wants combat, has organization pre-set up (no need to form a defense gang or such nonsense) can select for "what they can afford to lose", picks the location of the fight, picks the time of the fight, can pre-select shiptypes to increase the power of their gang (right number of logis to other ships, all one type of tank, ect). The attacker has huge advantages you don't consider here.
Your an idiot, the attacker has to bring a gang type that is strong and can counter a variety of fleet types, because the defender can form up any type of direct counter they need. The defenders can form an equally impressive fleet with no problem if they don't suck, and then use JB's to get behind the attackers and trap them. The attackers don't pick anything.
The fact that the defenders don't know how to setup a competent fleet quickly is not an excuse for the attacker having an advantage.
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:45:00 -
[663]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So basically its not the jump bridges thats the issues its people using intel channels and actually heaving a brain. I guess any MMO dev's wet dream is to have a bunch of mindless drone subscribers.
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Alice Pink
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:46:00 -
[664]
CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE CRY MORE
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TradingTooth
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:46:00 -
[665]
Originally by: Deakka The goal is understandable. But the reasoning is flawed.
The jump bridges are simply different stargates. Shortcuts yes, but you are still in space an equal amount of time during that timeframe. Also you are more likely to encounter players as these jump bridges are for a reason in that system: because it's a point of interest.
That said, I do agree that for a PvP perspective it would be nice to nerf the safety a bit. But you can do that with other tools. More in the direction of a presence of a certain thing, like a SBU blocking JB travel. Because now it is hitting safespace travel aswel. And I see no reason why an alliance shouldn't have a fast infrastructure within it's own space.
No, no reason at all, that is why CCP proposed that alliances could have a single jump bridge, cyno jammers, exclusive docking right stations, cyno beacons etc.
You know how CCP knows no measure when they start nerfing stuff, this looks almost gentle
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:46:00 -
[666]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
God dambit, I just plugged my nice new Halo set in!
Will it be an asymptotic chance, or will there be a hard enforced minimum?
(PS I Can't wait for the bears to realise that this is a way bigger nerf to their lifestyle than any minor tinkering with JBs could be)
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:47:00 -
[667]
Is it really hard to see how in a game full of features which have been unfinished for years, people get upset when you make things ****ty for them with the promise of "oh it'll totally get better with these awesome things that'll come later". If the jump bridge changes are designed to be balanced alongside some upcoming 0.0 changes, how about implementing them alongside them.
Making space painful to live in will make alliances smaller sure, but the result won't be more small alliances, it'll just be fewer people full stop.
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Phoenix Torp
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:47:00 -
[668]
Edited by: Phoenix Torp on 10/05/2011 21:48:07
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
****... why he had to read it ¼¼ ------ Skills |
Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:47:00 -
[669]
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
With the Eve Online is really played, a well organised gank gang: Has access to the pos shields of the said jumpbridges. Has access to defenders intel channels. Has ability to log off and wait in system with "blue eyes" and log in when a juicy target arrives on gate.
sounds like you're admitting to just getting flat out outplayed. Again, if you're not willing to play w/ the big dogs you're welcome to take your ball and go home Brasts |
Joker Deville
Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:48:00 -
[670]
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So basically its not the jump bridges thats the issues its people using intel channels and actually heaving a brain. I guess any MMO dev's wet dream is to have a bunch of mindless drone subscribers.
I thought they already did, mindless BOT subscribers (drone regions)
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Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:48:00 -
[671]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Boosh.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:48:00 -
[672]
Originally by: Yeep Is it really hard to see how in a game full of features which have been unfinished for years, people get upset when you make things ****ty for them with the promise of "oh it'll totally get better with these awesome things that'll come later". If the jump bridge changes are designed to be balanced alongside some upcoming 0.0 changes, how about implementing them alongside them.
Making space painful to live in will make alliances smaller sure, but the result won't be more small alliances, it'll just be fewer people full stop.
I too would unsubscribe due to having to jump a gate when returning from empire space
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:49:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: Mattress Lover Have any of the devs making these changes ever played Eve in 0.0? I doubt it, they are moronic and show a complete lack of understanding of the game.
As regards force projection you are just making people do 30-40 jumps instead of 5-6. Thanks for making Eve more boring and time consuming - I am completely amazed at how stupid you are.
Listen to the CSM, that's why they're there, to protect our interests.
its almost like they're trying to make eve a big place you can't get from one side of to the other in 10 minutes
Hey, guess how else they can achieve that? By adding more systems, regions and content. People complain not because some new content is about to redefine their lives but because no content is going to be introduced for the added benefit of tedium.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:49:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Yeep Is it really hard to see how in a game full of features which have been unfinished for years, people get upset when you make things ****ty for them with the promise of "oh it'll totally get better with these awesome things that'll come later".
This.
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Dark 0verlord
Greater Order Of Destruction Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:50:00 -
[675]
Good change ccp.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:50:00 -
[676]
Originally by: Khamal Jolstien
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased. Once they've been up here to talk practical details, we should be able to divulge more.
Hey Soundwave. We do not care one bit what the CSM thinks, and neither should you. The CSM is a PR thing, and should not be listened to over the rest of your players. Do not use the CSM to deny the average player their voice.
The "We know you don't like it, but the CSM agree with us!" attitude needs to stop. It's US you need to impress, not them. From this whole thread, including the JB changes, it's this that bothers me the most.
I know that it can suck to have an opinion that is in the minority on a matter that affects you, but if we took a poll right now on this matter (even without information on how this ties in to other changes down the line) I think you'd be a very unhappy camper.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:51:00 -
[677]
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So basically its not the jump bridges thats the issues its people using intel channels and actually heaving a brain. I guess any MMO dev's wet dream is to have a bunch of mindless drone subscribers.
You're basically complaining that because some feature of the game is underpowered you have to think for yourself and actually play the game instead of click like 6 times while watching tv and then find yourself all the way across eve.
Yes, I think it's safe to say that if you're not willing to put the effort in to install allies and an intel channel ( or even just scout it yourself ) that it's your fault you get killed, not the jump bridge's fault. Brasts |
friendly Nyx tackled
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 21:51:00 -
[678]
Originally by: The Mittani My stance on this is nuanced. I approve of this in part, and oppose it in part. Mostly, I approve; my opposition is entirely based on the timing of the nerf in relation to the planned nullsec improvements coming later in the development cycle which Soundwave mentioned in his blog.
In my view, given how set on a bridge nerf CCP was, one bridge/system was the most modest change we could negotiate them down to. The fact that CCP was willing to throw in a fuel bay buff when I suggested it was a last-minute change which helped take some of the sting off, and I was pleased by this willingness on their part.
My stance is 'political' because I don't believe in fighting impossible battles. If CCP makes it clear they want a bridge nerf of some flavor, I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it; I'm going to try to find the best, most reasonable accommodation and advocate for that. Some of the nullsec CSM reps took a hard line against any bridge nerf at all, and I opted to back the one I found most reasonable instead.
My personal view is that 1 bridge/system is acceptable when packaged with a suite of changes to add 'Farms and Fields' to nullsec. As an avid Sabre ganker, I think 1 bridge/1 system will allow alliances who have their **** together to function just fine, while those alliances who are less organized will suffer greatly.
I did argue against this change being implemented in a vacuum, however, as in my view it should have been rolled out during the range of proposed changes that Soundwave mentioned in his blog, rather than hot on the heels of the anomaly nerf with no improvements to line-member nullsec gameplay until winter-ish or later. That's the core of my disagreement, the timing, not the nerf itself.
As this has occurred in a vacuum, outside of the nullsec overhaul, the balance of the game swings ever more towards the 'PL Model' where sovholding entities can be attacked with no recourse from entities living in perfect safety in NPC 0.0. I am going to be exploring the possibilities of having NPC 0.0 station services made vulnerable. If nullsec is going to be a zone where everyone kicks each other in the balls on a daily basis (and I'm comfortable with that), those in NPC 0.0 should enjoy a little ball-kicking too.
I don't think capships should use bridges. Never have. vOv
Why are you posting here like someone actually cares what you post
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Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:53:00 -
[679]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
I can put a carrier in the system or nearby where I am camping. and I can put a spy in the target alliance. I have A) a local spot to change ships/fittings B) intel channels. These are not real difficulties.
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Vile rat
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:53:00 -
[680]
Originally by: friendly Nyx tackled
Originally by: The Mittani My stance on this is nuanced. I approve of this in part, and oppose it in part. Mostly, I approve; my opposition is entirely based on the timing of the nerf in relation to the planned nullsec improvements coming later in the development cycle which Soundwave mentioned in his blog.
In my view, given how set on a bridge nerf CCP was, one bridge/system was the most modest change we could negotiate them down to. The fact that CCP was willing to throw in a fuel bay buff when I suggested it was a last-minute change which helped take some of the sting off, and I was pleased by this willingness on their part.
My stance is 'political' because I don't believe in fighting impossible battles. If CCP makes it clear they want a bridge nerf of some flavor, I'm not going to throw a tantrum about it; I'm going to try to find the best, most reasonable accommodation and advocate for that. Some of the nullsec CSM reps took a hard line against any bridge nerf at all, and I opted to back the one I found most reasonable instead.
My personal view is that 1 bridge/system is acceptable when packaged with a suite of changes to add 'Farms and Fields' to nullsec. As an avid Sabre ganker, I think 1 bridge/1 system will allow alliances who have their **** together to function just fine, while those alliances who are less organized will suffer greatly.
I did argue against this change being implemented in a vacuum, however, as in my view it should have been rolled out during the range of proposed changes that Soundwave mentioned in his blog, rather than hot on the heels of the anomaly nerf with no improvements to line-member nullsec gameplay until winter-ish or later. That's the core of my disagreement, the timing, not the nerf itself.
As this has occurred in a vacuum, outside of the nullsec overhaul, the balance of the game swings ever more towards the 'PL Model' where sovholding entities can be attacked with no recourse from entities living in perfect safety in NPC 0.0. I am going to be exploring the possibilities of having NPC 0.0 station services made vulnerable. If nullsec is going to be a zone where everyone kicks each other in the balls on a daily basis (and I'm comfortable with that), those in NPC 0.0 should enjoy a little ball-kicking too.
I don't think capships should use bridges. Never have. vOv
Why are you posting here like someone actually cares what you post
It's you! You quoted him and commented!
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Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:53:00 -
[681]
Its clear to me now, CCP wants to turn all of 0.0 into NPC 0.0. Apparently you're supposed to drop a **** ton of isk on sov bills to have space that is no better than NPC 0.0.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:54:00 -
[682]
TRUE STORY LIVE FROM THE HEART OF NULLSEC
(11:52:35 PM) Xxxxxxx: Anyone need anything moved to JITA?
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BuRniZZ
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:54:00 -
[683]
Predictable. Something is changed to make 0.0 less boring to roam and NC whines. Good change CCP. Now just make it so only alliance members can use them.
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Tester128
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:55:00 -
[684]
It's FULL OF CAREBEAR TEARS, so good job ccp and ppl complaining about anomaly nerf probably never hunted belt rats. The nerfbat was too soft with anoms
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:55:00 -
[685]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Is this an official endorsement that gatecamping = CCP's idea of PvP?
PVP isn't a singular activity. Gatecamping and killing people is one form of PVP. I'm not going to rank the different types, I'd prefer if they were all happening to some degree. If you have people camping your space, you should do more to secure it.
Hey, here is an idea. Make a deployable item that can be used to disrupt JB travel, there more risk. Make a deployable item that will remove local in a system, there, more pvp and risk. However, look at the map of empire and null sec. Look at it, in empire you have systems branching ever which way, and sometimes you can eve take shortcuts through low sec. In null, some regions have long branches of system after system, travelling here is tougher and longer without the Jump Bridge. Understand CCP, people who play the game are no risk averse, what they are is bull**** averse and forcing them to spend twice the time to move goods or ships over the same space is only going to DETRACT from pvp. Do you comprehend this point? Does it get through your tiny little brain? This thread has a plethora of ideas that will increase the risk of JB travel while keeping distances the same.
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friendly Nyx tackled
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:55:00 -
[686]
Ok, I was wrong, Vile Rat cares. Go on, keep posting mittens.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:56:00 -
[687]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
More good changes! 07
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Spanking Monkeys
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:56:00 -
[688]
so i take it sov costs and jb upgrade costs are being reduced as tehy can only support half as many jb's?
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:57:00 -
[689]
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
Firstly, u mad?
Secondly, one of the main things that makes "good" people "good" in EVE is the fact that they are in the right place at the right time (or incidentally no longer there when then 5000 man drake blob turns up). If you're fighting fair then you're doing it wrong (or have scrub FCs/leadership).
If you want to fight fairly and on "even terms" then grab 50 or 100 dudes from your alliance, write up some rules and knock yourself out to your hearts content.
But EVE is not about fighting fairly. It's about being able to maneuver oneself into a position where one has an advantage and higher chance to reach the objective then your opponent has (be this when trading on the market, ratting, plexing or invading/defending space and so on). This can include a multitude of tactics and strategies - that is what makes the game fun and interesting.
I think you're getting EVE mixed up with WOW or Counter Strike where you take an equal number of dudes and let them slog it out and see who presses the right buttons faster/better. EVE does not have a hugely skill-intensive combat system (especially not in large fleets) so basically sitting there with two equally strong gangs and pressing F1-F8 is pretty damn boring after a very short time.
What makes the game fun is that you can do unexpected things (tactically) or use interesting strategies to defeat your enemies (such as blockades, propaganda etc.)
So if you're sad because you got killed by 20 dudes then maybe stop asking yourself "why is this game so unfair?" and better ask "how can i prevent this from happening in the future and maybe even get revenge on the ebil gankers?"
Or you could cry some more.
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Electra Ashbringer
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:57:00 -
[690]
I can't see why eg. our own alliance should hold any sov any more.
Cost a lot of isk to maintain just to have our name on it No benefits, but the 2-3 systems you would use to rat in to get upgrades into it
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:59:00 -
[691]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Great Scott, Burn Eden is going to p1ss blood when they hear about this.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:59:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Tester128 It's FULL OF CAREBEAR TEARS, so good job ccp and ppl complaining about anomaly nerf probably never hunted belt rats. The nerfbat was too soft with anoms
You claim that now will be harder (and better) the 0.0, and someone like you decide to put a 20-30 gang into a C6 anom... to take less that when anom's were created. U need to defend the 1-2 systems u have SOV and you say that they should nerf more the anom's. U, in fact, all that ppl that are not whinning about this change, are real people, without any type of doubt. The only reason is a love to the pain, another reason is unknown to me XD
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 21:59:00 -
[693]
Originally by: Electra Ashbringer I can't see why eg. our own alliance should hold any sov any more.
Cost a lot of isk to maintain just to have our name on it No benefits, but the 2-3 systems you would use to rat in to get upgrades into it
Also, your overlords took all the nice moons that are commonly used to finance such things?
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TheMercenaryKing
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:01:00 -
[694]
Edited by: TheMercenaryKing on 10/05/2011 22:01:15 WOO WAY TO MAKE THE GAME WORSE! there are ways to camp jump bridges other then bombers/suicide ganking and some people know how to do it. How about rather then breaking the game more, you fix the sov problems already! |
Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:01:00 -
[695]
Originally by: Malcanis
Incidentally, I'm loving reading the same people who voiciferously denied that JBs make any difference in 0.0 power projection also whining about having to make "30 jump" trips.
They still dont matter for fleets, its not like you are bridging your 500-1000 man fleet through jump bridges or sending your supercaps through jb's. I mostly jumpclone to the staging systems anyway.
It just adds to the tedium when travelling alone and makes that 2nd account more of a requirement than an option.
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Elektra Ashbringer
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:01:00 -
[696]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Great Scott, Burn Eden is going to p1ss blood when they hear about this.
^^ What he said !! |
Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:02:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
"fair fights"?
what is this, WoW battlegrounds?? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:02:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Electra Ashbringer I can't see why eg. our own alliance should hold any sov any more.
Cost a lot of isk to maintain just to have our name on it No benefits, but the 2-3 systems you would use to rat in to get upgrades into it
then don't hold sov. Move to NPC space, or just let the sov drop. Sov certainly has benefits, but it isn't for everyone. IF you're holding sov just to make money and you aren't making money...then don't hold sov, or change something. Sov can be very lucrative for certain people with certain interests and goals, but it isn't and shouldn't be something that everyone needs or even wants. Brasts |
Memoocan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:02:00 -
[699]
The tears, they are wonderful! Good on ya, CCP.
Have you heard of wormholes? You know..the real nullsec.
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:03:00 -
[700]
CCP and the CSM should really look at this from the uninformed's point of view.
The CSM has seen some sort of "long term plan" for 0.0, and that's great. The general public has not, so all we see are these massive ham-fisted nerfs that make where we choose to spend our time in the game so much more difficult. doing Logistics in Eve is already horrible, boring, and mind-numbingly dull. This just makes it much, much worse.
I haven't seen this "outline for 0.0" that's been mentioned, and I've only seen a few vague promises that it's good. This is not good, and it makes me think that the changes CCP has planned aren't any better. I mean, why would they just keep doing horrible things to 0.0, and not add any incentives? increasing jump bridges fuel bays by 50% isn't an incentive.
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ghosttr
Amarr ARK-CORP Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:03:00 -
[701]
Ok CCP if you want to fix 0.0 how about you fix POSes? I mean weve only been wanting this for 5+ years now.
Drone rats could use a revamp of their faction loot. That whole system needs overhauled.
Prospecting! |
ModeratedToSilence
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:04:00 -
[702]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
With the Eve Online is really played, a well organised gank gang: Has access to the pos shields of the said jumpbridges. Has access to defenders intel channels. Has ability to log off and wait in system with "blue eyes" and log in when a juicy target arrives on gate.
sounds like you're admitting to just getting flat out outplayed. Again, if you're not willing to play w/ the big dogs you're welcome to take your ball and go home
Sounds like your missing the point and going for personal attacks instead of staying on topic. The point of my counter to CCP Soundwaves post is to illustrate to him he is missing a large part of the picture regarding how eve is actually played. Going back to my original post in this thread - CCP need to change the way alliances interact to change 0.0. Tinkering with jumpbridges is going to have effects they haven't really thought about. My prediction is that these changes in isolation will make 0.0 less dynamic. In regards to my personal opinion: I think my rapier will find a nice jumpbridge route sit within 2 au of a gate for 3-4 days afk after which I'll see who is stupid enough to ignore my presence. Probably easiest to do this in an alliance where I have a clean api alt to give me eyes on whats going on. To respond to your baiting regarding big boys: Under the current development of CCP holding space is the most difficult thing to do. Try it out some time - oh wait your "big boys" dont have the attention span to do that.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:04:00 -
[703]
Originally by: TheMercenaryKing Edited by: TheMercenaryKing on 10/05/2011 22:01:15 WOO WAY TO MAKE THE GAME WORSE! there are ways to camp jump bridges other then bombers/suicide ganking and some people know how to do it. How about rather then breaking the game more, you fix the sov problems already!
I'm fairly confident when I say that I've killed more ships camping jb's and cynogens than you have killed total in eve and I'm saying this was a good and needed change. Brasts |
Katsura Kotonoha
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:05:00 -
[704]
Originally by: ghosttr Ok CCP if you want to fix 0.0 how about you fix POSes? I mean weve only been wanting this for 5+ years now.
Drone rats could use a revamp of their faction loot. That whole system needs overhauled.
Add NPC drone stations too while you're at it.
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Gourdo
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:05:00 -
[705]
Like I said these changes as stated at this point would be very bad for null. I think if they go through with the changes I will stop doing courier runs as well as trying to find a alliance to join to get back into null. I will also stop trying to buy items from null that I need. Shut down my productions and only do missions back in empire from time to time. Since it will not be worth my time and the great increase of in-game cost and resources to even bother with null.
Maybe it might take a boycott of null-sec (if changes are implemented as they stand). Make it so null is safer than high sec. Those that hold sov could act as concord to prevent wardec fights/pirating/ganking in their areas. (of course this may lull newbs and unaware players in a false sense of safety for later).
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Elektra Ashbringer
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:05:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Electra Ashbringer I can't see why eg. our own alliance should hold any sov any more.
Cost a lot of isk to maintain just to have our name on it No benefits, but the 2-3 systems you would use to rat in to get upgrades into it
Also, your overlords took all the nice moons that are commonly used to finance such things?
I don't know about this, it dosn't concern me. But they can keep the moons, if they want to have their names on a lot of systems to make it look pretty on dotlan :)
Since JB's would be brigged and you are forced into a capital, no need to maintain sov on a system from where the only benefit would be upgrades for ratting. |
Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:05:00 -
[707]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
Firstly, u mad?
Secondly, one of the main things that makes "good" people "good" in EVE is the fact that they are in the right place at the right time (or incidentally no longer there when then 5000 man drake blob turns up). If you're fighting fair then you're doing it wrong (or have scrub FCs/leadership).
If you want to fight fairly and on "even terms" then grab 50 or 100 dudes from your alliance, write up some rules and knock yourself out to your hearts content.
But EVE is not about fighting fairly. It's about being able to maneuver oneself into a position where one has an advantage and higher chance to reach the objective then your opponent has (be this when trading on the market, ratting, plexing or invading/defending space and so on). This can include a multitude of tactics and strategies - that is what makes the game fun and interesting.
I think you're getting EVE mixed up with WOW or Counter Strike where you take an equal number of dudes and let them slog it out and see who presses the right buttons faster/better. EVE does not have a hugely skill-intensive combat system (especially not in large fleets) so basically sitting there with two equally strong gangs and pressing F1-F8 is pretty damn boring after a very short time.
What makes the game fun is that you can do unexpected things (tactically) or use interesting strategies to defeat your enemies (such as blockades, propaganda etc.)
So if you're sad because you got killed by 20 dudes then maybe stop asking yourself "why is this game so unfair?" and better ask "how can i prevent this from happening in the future and maybe even get revenge on the ebil gankers?"
Or you could cry some more.
Because people really want to camp every gate in a system 23/7 so miners and noobs in salvage destroyers don't get ganked by roaming gangs who do nothing but blueball. Those of us who do all the non pvp stuff required to allow everyone else to pvp would rather just avoid people like you. But once all the 0.0 miners quit because they're sick of getting camped, you guys can enjoy paying 10k for a unit of megacyte since only WH miners will still be around.
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CowWarrior
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:06:00 -
[708]
Seems a little heavy-handed and the timing is questionable, but I can live with the changes. Countdown to Deklein and Fountain being overrun with hostile dramiels and cynabals. Whatever will we do? |
Samuel Miner
Caldari Perilous Expedition
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:06:00 -
[709]
Originally by: Starkiller Adams for the love of god leave 0.0 alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LEAVE SOMETHING CONSTANT U WILL NEVER SEE WHAT WORK IF UR ALWAYS ****ING CHANGING ****!!!!
This made me lol
CCP is notoriously slow as hell at changing anything. Thorax with 5 heavy drones, that only took 3 years to get nerfed. Then they thought a tech 1 battlecruiser with 5 heavy drones would be okay, that took another year to get nerfed.
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Tyby
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:09:00 -
[710]
Edited by: Tyby on 10/05/2011 22:12:21 oh my God: the tears! rivers!
"we will need to jump one gate??? nooo CCP how dare you?! we may die jumping that gate you know??? we are so going to quit..."
can i have your stuff?
go CCP! p.s. like seriously i just can't stop laughing
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:10:00 -
[711]
Page 24 and still going strong, damn.
Oh, and this still won't change anything :P
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:10:00 -
[712]
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Sounds like your missing the point and going for personal attacks instead of staying on topic. The point of my counter to CCP Soundwaves post is to illustrate to him he is missing a large part of the picture regarding how eve is actually played. Going back to my original post in this thread - CCP need to change the way alliances interact to change 0.0. Tinkering with jumpbridges is going to have effects they haven't really thought about. My prediction is that these changes in isolation will make 0.0 less dynamic. In regards to my personal opinion: I think my rapier will find a nice jumpbridge route sit within 2 au of a gate for 3-4 days afk after which I'll see who is stupid enough to ignore my presence. Probably easiest to do this in an alliance where I have a clean api alt to give me eyes on whats going on. To respond to your baiting regarding big boys: Under the current development of CCP holding space is the most difficult thing to do. Try it out some time - oh wait your "big boys" dont have the attention span to do that.
As I've said before, holding space isn't and shouldn't be for everyone. Some alliances can cut it, some can't, and some don't want to even try because they're just not interested in it.
If your space can easily be shut down by a few guys who have access to your intel channels, maybe you should be a little stricter with recruitment and not use the "pack anyone with a pulse into this corp" strategy that seems so popular these days. Spies can be pretty easy to catch if you know what to look for. Brasts |
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:10:00 -
[713]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema
Originally by: Zamiq
Cause some people subscribed to the game after EvE was out for 4 years. These people have done a serious investment into the game and its understandable that they might not like a potential change that will double the time required to move goods/ships. Now, if you dont like these people complaining then fine you can stick with "there was eve before this and this change" but then you must realize that the people who are not happy with the change will leave and this in now way will increase the pvp rations in null.
Current travel from Taisy (lowsec Lonetrek) to UJY-HE (furthest part of Deklein):
Normal Gates: 7 Jumpbridges: 10
Theoretical future travel from Taisy (lowsec Lonetrek) to UJY-HE (furthest part of Deklein):
Normal Gates: 10 Jumpbridges: 9
This calculation was made using systems currently under sov by the holder alliances, accounting for viability of said systems for JB placement and based on a reasonable rearrangement of the current JB network. The actual layout may add or subtract two or three jumps from this, as my theoretical route is by no means optimal.
Good post. It will be interesting in the end of things if the actual number of jumps does not change significantly for most networks. It would certainly be ironic if the biggest change was just a bunch of alliance logistics managers spending thousands of hours to rebuild the same thing.
I would be very interested to see PVP numbers before and after this change, especially in areas with jump bridges. I'll bet it changes what systems kills occur in, but after the first couple weeks I'll bet the number of kills remains constant. Anyone care to sc**** API data to test my hypothesis? --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:10:00 -
[714]
This change will have a direct consequence. If capital ships are also capped... why should train for Avatar? Only for bonuses? :S
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Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:10:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Samuel Miner
Originally by: Starkiller Adams for the love of god leave 0.0 alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LEAVE SOMETHING CONSTANT U WILL NEVER SEE WHAT WORK IF UR ALWAYS ****ING CHANGING ****!!!!
This made me lol
CCP is notoriously slow as hell at changing anything. Thorax with 5 heavy drones, that only took 3 years to get nerfed. Then they thought a tech 1 battlecruiser with 5 heavy drones would be okay, that took another year to get nerfed.
CCP seems hell bent on turning all 0.0 into NPC 0.0 now though...
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:11:00 -
[716]
Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 10/05/2011 22:10:54 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBR2G-iI3-I
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:11:00 -
[717]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Quoting this because it's true.
So basically its not the jump bridges thats the issues its people using intel channels and actually heaving a brain. I guess any MMO dev's wet dream is to have a bunch of mindless drone subscribers.
You're basically complaining that because some feature of the game is underpowered you have to think for yourself and actually play the game instead of click like 6 times while watching tv and then find yourself all the way across eve.
Yes, I think it's safe to say that if you're not willing to put the effort in to install allies and an intel channel ( or even just scout it yourself ) that it's your fault you get killed, not the jump bridge's fault.
Read my posts again. I proposed making JBs stand alone structures anchorable at planets, making them visible to the entire system, putting a cool down on players that prevents them from jumping right away and this forcing them to linger in the system, making JBs distances based on trusec rating thus really making trusec desirable for alliances, creating deployable items that will blockade or disrupt JB functionality and making deployable items that will disrupt or time delay local chat. How is that not playing the game? What you advocate has none of those changes but actually forces people to spend twice the time travelling thus detracted them from actual pvp.
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:12:00 -
[718]
Seeing as you agreed it's safety, ("ThatÆs not to say youÆre invincible when using jumpbridges, but if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety") not convenience, ("On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out, since they provide a great way of reaching whatever content youÆre using quickly.") you're trying to nerf: if you really do think this will make a difference, why not balance it out for the everyman and make it so the singular JB per system has a slightly farther reach. say, one or two more light years?
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SavageBastard
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:15:00 -
[719]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
This is not entirely true. Bridges are campable with the right gang/ships as many, many people have shown. Also, the nature of life in 0.0 is simply different than that in the rest of the game. Lowsec is the flagship for small gang pvp. 0.0 is "relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp" because it's friggin DANGEROUS and there are a comparatively few people living in a relatively large space. There is simply a rift between the way that CCP conceives of life in 0.0 and actual life there.
Small gang pvp exists less in 0.0 because you have groups of people that actually live in sections of space and are vulnerable to literally everyone else and it's really hard to leave. As such, you have groups of people who form gangs and look for fights, mostly looking for the most easy and defenseless of targets (lone people on gates and players trying to farm the relatively meager riches of nullsec compared to the highsec counterparts). If the people in the invaded space wish to fight back, they need to swap ships and rally enough people to counter whatever gimmick gang happens to be zooming through. Usually, by the time they get enough people together the offending gang has heard the alarm bell and is off and running looking for better prey. Nerfing bridges simply ensures that those gangs have more chokeholds to gank people at and have an easier time escaping since defenders won't be able to take shortcuts to get ahead of them with a worthwhile gang.
If you want 0.0 to be the "pvp flagship" then create better objectives for small gangs to be fighting over on a more constant basis. Make system bonuses that hinge on being protected and can be contested in a short period of time by a small group of people. Even then, sooner or later the invaders are going to have a tengu gang titan bridged onto their heads, thus deterring future incursions.
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:15:00 -
[720]
Sov upgrade nerf and now this, are you wanting people to unsub and do something more enjoyable?
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Overlord PinKy
Gallente Unchained Potential Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:16:00 -
[721]
Originally by: Croier
Quote: We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today. This particular area of space should offer a lot more opportunities than it does today
un-nerf ratting perhaps? Where do you guys get these ideas? Maybe it's time for you people to start playing your own game?
+1
I don't usually chime in on CCP's plans, but WOW. Your changes to 0.0 recently, some of which are highlighted above HONESTLY TELLS ME that people at CCP no longer even play this game.
When other software developers like Adobe for example make changes, it's directly related to user feedback and improves the software. But you make two steps back and one forward with this crap.
CCP, the changes your making to 0.0 ARE NOT IMPROVING 0.0.
Instead of lowering the ISK honest players make in anoms or by ratting, why don't you try to fix the rampant botting problem you have in the Drone Regions?!?
From the bottom of my heart, you guys suck...
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Niarun
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:17:00 -
[722]
Originally by: Tango Zulu Seeing as you agreed it's safety, ("ThatÆs not to say youÆre invincible when using jumpbridges, but if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety") not convenience, ("On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out, since they provide a great way of reaching whatever content youÆre using quickly.") you're trying to nerf: if you really do think this will make a difference, why not balance it out for the everyman and make it so the singular JB per system has a slightly farther reach. say, one or two more light years?
nice idea how about since you could have 2 jb @ 5ly each either give you one at 10ly or maybe let them put as many as they want but the total ly for all the jbs in the system is 10ly ex. 5jbs @ 2ly each or 1 @ 10ly or 3 @ 3.333333 ly each
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Lawke Eislen
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:17:00 -
[723]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: ModeratedToSilence
Sounds like your missing the point and going for personal attacks instead of staying on topic. The point of my counter to CCP Soundwaves post is to illustrate to him he is missing a large part of the picture regarding how eve is actually played. Going back to my original post in this thread - CCP need to change the way alliances interact to change 0.0. Tinkering with jumpbridges is going to have effects they haven't really thought about. My prediction is that these changes in isolation will make 0.0 less dynamic. In regards to my personal opinion: I think my rapier will find a nice jumpbridge route sit within 2 au of a gate for 3-4 days afk after which I'll see who is stupid enough to ignore my presence. Probably easiest to do this in an alliance where I have a clean api alt to give me eyes on whats going on. To respond to your baiting regarding big boys: Under the current development of CCP holding space is the most difficult thing to do. Try it out some time - oh wait your "big boys" dont have the attention span to do that.
As I've said before, holding space isn't and shouldn't be for everyone. Some alliances can cut it, some can't, and some don't want to even try because they're just not interested in it.
If your space can easily be shut down by a few guys who have access to your intel channels, maybe you should be a little stricter with recruitment and not use the "pack anyone with a pulse into this corp" strategy that seems so popular these days. Spies can be pretty easy to catch if you know what to look for.
You mean like a good old forum leak?
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:18:00 -
[724]
Originally by: Amber Villaneous Sov upgrade nerf and now this, are you wanting people to unsub and do something more enjoyable?
//thread
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ecoske
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:18:00 -
[725]
dumb half-arsed change that wasn't on CSM radar - add that to last months anom nerf and they'll need bigger stargates to let the hordes out of 0.0. (Go on CCP - show some STATS and some DATA to prove us wrong not woolly b******t)
Reducing rewards and increasing risk/tedium travelling in 0.0 encourages more high-sec missioning - nothing else
Anom changes mean you go through system after system with no-one in them
Ganking PvE ships and haulers on gates between JBs.... that's your vision for achieving leet small gang pvp??
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:18:00 -
[726]
Originally by: Tango Zulu Seeing as you agreed it's safety, ("ThatÆs not to say youÆre invincible when using jumpbridges, but if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety") not convenience, ("On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out, since they provide a great way of reaching whatever content youÆre using quickly.") you're trying to nerf: if you really do think this will make a difference, why not balance it out for the everyman and make it so the singular JB per system has a slightly farther reach. say, one or two more light years?
Here's another decent idea. Thread's full of em. Problem is they aren't coming from CCP.
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jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:19:00 -
[727]
This is a fantastic change. Now halve all jump drive range and double supercap aggression timers. Require supercarriers to siege to deploy fighter bombers and were golden.
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CheckingAmarr
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:19:00 -
[728]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As I've said before, holding space isn't and shouldn't be for everyone. Some alliances can cut it, some can't, and some don't want to even try because they're just not interested in it.
I guess with 'tried and failed' we know where PL stands in this hierarchy: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/Pandemic_Legion/stats
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Kalissa
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:20:00 -
[729]
All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
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Versuvius Marii
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:20:00 -
[730]
Posting in a NC/DC nerf thread. Just taste those tears. HERE'S TO ME, HERE'S TO YOU, THE BEST OF FRIENDS, WILL ALWAYS BE! BUT IF WE SHOULD....DISAGREE! TO HELL WITH YOU AND HERE'S TO ME! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! |
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:21:00 -
[731]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 10/05/2011 22:21:21
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
You have played since 03 and you dont have a cap or a noob scout?
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jm24
CRICE Corp Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:22:00 -
[732]
And make webs 75% thanks
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:22:00 -
[733]
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
I though everyone in your area had 10 bot accounts all flying supers, you must be new then.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 -
[734]
Originally by: Innominate
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Svennig
A "neutral" structure which imposes its own mechanics onto fleet fights that take place at it? Are you high right now? You're forcing gate games onto people. If you did it at an ungunned POS it would be a much more neutral fight.
A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
You seem curiously intent on putting all of the risk onto defenders rather than attackers.
Why shouldn't a roaming gang be baited and attacked by reinforcements, after the territorial owner went to the effort of setting up, fueling, and paying the tower? 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Boosh.
Just ****ing this.
Aren't we suppose to be a in a sandbox anyways? ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Fix Lag
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 -
[735]
THANKS FOR BALANCING SUPERCAPITALS
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR DECIDING TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER DOMINION THAT MAYBE SOVEREIGN NULLSEC NEEDS ANOTHER BUNCH OF ****ING NERFS AND ****-UPS TO GO WITH THAT EXPANSION
I swear to God you people could not suck any more at game designing if you actually tried.
Fix Lag! |
Cal Drid
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 -
[736]
Can we fix null-sec's dependency on the Jita economy BEFORE we make it harder to access Jita?
I'm also a whole lot less interested in ever flying a carrier if I straight up can't bring it into a system with a cyno jammer... or is the point of this simply to get rid of cyno jammers?
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deathpain
Gallente The Graduates
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 -
[737]
Last update for 0.0 you nerfed isk making in null, now you are nerfing transport, what next ? you really know how to upset your customers. Dont fix what isnt broken and look at fixing what is...
Word of warning: You have thousands of customers in null sec and they aint happy.
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HairyButter
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 -
[738]
1 vote = cancel 1 account and state reason.
thats the only way ccp will care what a player thinks.
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Zzyzx Corionus
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:23:00 -
[739]
Hey CCP, the PvP aspect of this game is the only thing that's keeping people in 0.0 and much of the subscription base here, the goal is to improve the PvE aspect and more goddammed travel times is not what we need. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:24:00 -
[740]
+1
I was always wondering why it should be more dangerous doing all the jumps through lowsec than traveling through nullsec.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:25:00 -
[741]
Edited by: Cellistara on 10/05/2011 22:25:45
Originally by: HairyButter 1 vote = cancel 1 account and state reason.
thats the only way ccp will care what a player thinks.
I cancelled 4, well not really cancelled since I use GTCs. Not doing that again, say bye bye to em CCP.
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Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:25:00 -
[742]
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
Risk vs. Reward. With the anom nerf and now the impending jump bridge nerf, CCP has made 0.0 more risky and less rewarding. Why does anyone bother to live in 0.0 these days?
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Zamiq
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:26:00 -
[743]
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
I like mindless sheep like you. "I pay 14$ a month to have no content and to spend a great portion of my time working on logistics because thats how it was done when I started playing the game years ago. No, I dont want my money to go towards new content, nerfs is where its at".
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Freyus Bargem
Caldari A Humble Abode
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:26:00 -
[744]
Instead of being all gung ho about the 0.0 changes , why not ask the players what they want first... You know, the people who are paying your wages? This apparent change and many others you have in the pipeline, I'll call it now, will lose you plenty of customers over the current months.
0.0 is supposed to be for the "experienced" players, make it more rewarding for them to spend their time out there, rather than sat in empire grinding lvl 4's. That is the only change that should be made. The rest isn't broke so don't fix it ffs
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:27:00 -
[745]
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
ofcoz u do... nice timing too
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Ay Liz
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:27:00 -
[746]
Edited by: Ay Liz on 10/05/2011 22:31:14 From a Sov-Battle PoV the thing about capitals not being able to use jump bridges sounds very interesting to me. I don't think this one is bad. I would still allow Jump Freigthers to use them though.
From a roaming PoV the change to only allow 1 JB per system sounds quite good. You rarely see people travelling by gates these days. But from a Logistics PoV the change seems horrible. I am really uncertain here..
And like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you nerfing the **** out of 0.0. Maybe you should add something new WHILE you nerf stuff.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
And there's still that thing with supercarriers making dreads obsolete and generally being overpowered. Maybe you should do something about that next.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:28:00 -
[747]
Originally by: darius mclever +1
I was always wondering why it should be more dangerous doing all the jumps through lowsec than traveling through nullsec.
The way I thought it worked was lowsec was the land of pirates, go at extreme risk, and 0.0 was the land of empires, where the massive wars happened, not the place where everyone spins in station because all the gates are camped and every sanctum and grav is filled with stealthbombers or IN t3s like ccp is trying to make it.
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Celfea Dur
The Flying Tigers
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:29:00 -
[748]
I've been living in nullsec for about 2 years...I moved out to nullsec within the first 2 months of starting the game. My entire EVE gaming experience has been based in nullsec with ventures into highsec only as needed to sell my wares and occasionally pick up new toys.
For my entire time in EVE, one of the most repeated "goals" for CCP has been to encourage more players and player interaction in nullsec.
I am not a cap ship pilot, so if I travel more than 6 jumps from my home system, I will generally head for the nearest jumpbridge entries. I routinely take 8 jumpbridges in order to save from making 12 stargate jumps. In every system, I am at risk from being reported in enemy intel by cloaky observers and if they have done their due diligence, they know where those jumpbridges are and have at least those 8 chances to burn me into dust. Yes, it is true that if every other system jump must be through a stargate, the enemy will have the opportunity to setup a proper gate camp without a hostile POS tower breathing down their neck...but as you have already stated -- with the simple use of an intel channel to monitor enemy actions, I can either route around the camp, contract my packages to a jump pilot, or just decide to log off and not even attempt to make the trip at that point in time.
The jumpbridge limitation will not solve the problem you think it will solve. Jumpbridge networks are not used in the ways that you believe they are used. Jumpbridge networks are conducive to forming up large fleets, but they are not used in large fleet navigation. Jumpbridge networks are conducive to pilots dispersing back to their home systems after a large fleet roam or engagement, but again, they are not used for large fleet navigation. Jumpbridge networks are conducive to supporting everyday logistics and small gang navigation and for rapid response to a sudden threat or opportunity. ie: If a fellow alliance member puts out a call because his jump freighter is tackled by a small pvp gang, his only lifeline is how far away the nearest jumpbridge is. If the nearest jumpbridge is more than 3 jumps from his location, no one will be able to come to his aid. Did you know that most jump freighter pilots avoid established jumpbridge networks BECAUSE they do not provide enough safety and because they are too visible to enemies?
The people who think that the Northern Coalition is crying over this issue because their huge fleet blobs will be lined up at the stargates afraid to jump into a waiting gate camp really have no idea what it means to live in a true alliance.
The only people who use jumpbridges on a day-in and day-out basis are the newer guys, like me. Who are spending their EVE time ratting in one system, collecting lewt, managing their planetary interactions, and hauling all of their goods back to a waiting hauler floating at a pos tower. And at the end of my game session, I jump to the hauler and warp out to the jumbridge so I can safely jump back to my home system and dock up with my hard-earned rewards. On the off chance that one of my corp mates (or even myself for that matter) finds themselves in a face-to-face player interaction with a hostile pilot, the jumpbridge "network" is the only thing in the game which may facilitate that isolated incident into becoming a true multi-player event. Without the jumpbridge "network" providing for fast response of small gangs and individual pilots, all you get is more small-scale skirmish warfare and pilot ganking.
You will not break large-scale alliances or drastically affect force projection with these changes.
But one thing you will guarantee yourself -- you will slap hugely popular and highly organized large-scale core player bases with an unexpected difficulty and hugely unpopular pain in the ass game mechanic with no expressed purpose and the only visible side effect of being that it makes the Norhtern Coalition-haters love you.
Good job.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:29:00 -
[749]
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
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Mc Dick's
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 -
[750]
Edited by: Mc ****''s on 10/05/2011 22:33:31 This Post may seem a bit cynical but its only ment to be constructive, I hope you take it into consideration.
This is a horrible Idea - youve effective doubled the cost of owning jumpbridges with a menial reward. I dont know about what alliance your thinking of but most of the jumpbridge I have seen are EMPTY because they get used too much(wheres the suggestion I made about jumpbridge tolls to help pay for sov and fuel cost)doubling the fuel capacity just means pos fulers have to carry more fuel to refuel bridges and they now have to move through 4 solarsystems instead of 2 (thats not very helpfull)
It wouln't be so bad if the range of jumpbridges were increased since most bridge systems are inplace only to act as a transit point so now the alliances that can afford to have 300+ jumpbridge systems at 300M a month each are left unaffected and the other alliances (without Technetium) are SOL. 2 bridges per system is fine (maybe an extra upgrade is needed to allow 2 per system) but you dont see that.
at what part of this Post dominion Sov system are there gonna be new strategic features that we were not able to do back in 2007. maybe you need to spend less time working on how the boobs on your new avatar are to revealing or not bouncy enough and work on something usefull.
look forward to seeing your next "feature" id like to see more planning and less of this of southparks margaritaville bailout stratagy if im allowed links this is the one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QWyg50K4MU
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 -
[751]
Originally by: Im Super Gay
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears over jump bridges. I've been playing Eve since '03 long before JB's were in the game and most of the people here are all moaning and groaning about the the fact you'll actually have to do some gate travel and actually *shock* TAKE A RISK!!
Stop crying like little girls, take it on the chin. Null sec is supposed to be risky thats the whole point.
And yes I do use JB's and it WILL make my life harder, but I fully support the changes.
Risk vs. Reward. With the anom nerf and now the impending jump bridge nerf, CCP has made 0.0 more risky and less rewarding. Why does anyone bother to live in 0.0 these days?
I guess you are supposed to use that 2nd account for missions in highsec and then roam with the other one through 0.0
|
Miso Hawnee
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 -
[752]
Originally by: Fix Lag THANKS FOR BALANCING SUPERCAPITALS
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR DECIDING TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER DOMINION THAT MAYBE SOVEREIGN NULLSEC NEEDS ANOTHER BUNCH OF ****ING NERFS AND ****-UPS TO GO WITH THAT EXPANSION
I swear to God you people could not suck any more at game designing if you actually tried.
QFT
|
Perpo
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:30:00 -
[753]
You can tell it's a great idea by the amount of upset 0.0 dweebs.
|
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:31:00 -
[754]
Hi Stoffer,
Interesting set of changes, and in themselves not unreasonable. Will a corresponding nerf be introduced to the abilities of capitals and supercapitals to move quickly around the map too? Or is 'force projection' and 'easy mode logistics' perfectly acceptable when multi-account supercarrier and jump freighter pilots do it but a terrible imbalance when available to the untermenschen in their subcaps?
-----------------
|
Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:31:00 -
[755]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 22:31:13
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Don't be messed up. In one month we will see the FAIL at failing XD
|
Esmilis99
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:32:00 -
[756]
Nerf is a terrible idea. But what shows CCP incompetence even more is one week, for changes to take effect. One week to redesign jumpbridge networks, to move all the stuff, to reset it again. Are you serious??
You should really look hard to whoever is leading the nullsec developement in CCP, are there any studies done on changes you plan to make? Or you just eye-ball it?
I agree some nerfs where painful, but necessary. Hell.. subcap fleets actually became fun. But this one, and the reasoning you provide for it, it really makes me wonder about your design team competence.
|
ovo warr
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:32:00 -
[757]
Originally by: Zzyzx Corionus Hey CCP, the PvP aspect of this game is the only thing that's keeping people in 0.0 and much of the subscription base here, the goal is to improve the PvE aspect and more goddammed travel times is not what we need.
+1 remove warp drives form ships ;]
|
Zamiq
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:32:00 -
[758]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
|
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:33:00 -
[759]
I wonder if we'll end up with botting Titans who auto-login and turn on a jump beacon every x minutes. --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
|
Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:33:00 -
[760]
Originally by: Esmilis99 Nerf is a terrible idea. But what shows CCP incompetence even more is one week, for changes to take effect. One week to redesign jumpbridge networks, to move all the stuff, to reset it again. Are you serious??
You should really look hard to whoever is leading the nullsec developement in CCP, are there any studies done on changes you plan to make? Or you just eye-ball it?
I agree some nerfs where painful, but necessary. Hell.. subcap fleets actually became fun. But this one, and the reasoning you provide for it, it really makes me wonder about your design team competence.
The new massive fleet will be a Black Ops fleet, the over-nerfed shyp-type all the time. Oh, wait...
|
|
Celistin
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:33:00 -
[761]
Edited by: Celistin on 10/05/2011 22:34:24
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
Firstly, u mad?
Secondly, one of the main things that makes "good" people "good" in EVE is the fact that they are in the right place at the right time (or incidentally no longer there when then 5000 man drake blob turns up). If you're fighting fair then you're doing it wrong (or have scrub FCs/leadership).
If you want to fight fairly and on "even terms" then grab 50 or 100 dudes from your alliance, write up some rules and knock yourself out to your hearts content.
But EVE is not about fighting fairly. It's about being able to maneuver oneself into a position where one has an advantage and higher chance to reach the objective then your opponent has (be this when trading on the market, ratting, plexing or invading/defending space and so on). This can include a multitude of tactics and strategies - that is what makes the game fun and interesting.
I think you're getting EVE mixed up with WOW or Counter Strike where you take an equal number of dudes and let them slog it out and see who presses the right buttons faster/better. EVE does not have a hugely skill-intensive combat system (especially not in large fleets) so basically sitting there with two equally strong gangs and pressing F1-F8 is pretty damn boring after a very short time.
What makes the game fun is that you can do unexpected things (tactically) or use interesting strategies to defeat your enemies (such as blockades, propaganda etc.)
So if you're sad because you got killed by 20 dudes then maybe stop asking yourself "why is this game so unfair?" and better ask "how can i prevent this from happening in the future and maybe even get revenge on the ebil gankers?"
Or you could cry some more.
So basically you agree with me?
There will be more 20v1 ganking because more people are stuck out in the open but not more gang vs gang. because as you put it, you need to always have the advantage.
CCP wants more pvp but all this does is create more opportunity for gangs of T2s to kill industrials. Which is not pvp.
Or maybe that is PvP to you.
Which means "ur mad bro" and you should "stop crying" or how ever it is you 16 yr olds put it.
I don't personally care because I rarely get caught by gatecamps.
But this will not create more pvp. I'm sorry if you have padding your KB with lol travel fit kills confused with pvp.
|
Feyleaf
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:33:00 -
[762]
Its all about the isk-sink's?
|
SmashTech
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:33:00 -
[763]
Originally by: Fix Lag THANKS FOR BALANCING SUPERCAPITALS
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR DECIDING TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER DOMINION THAT MAYBE SOVEREIGN NULLSEC NEEDS ANOTHER BUNCH OF ****ING NERFS AND ****-UPS TO GO WITH THAT EXPANSION
I swear to God you people could not suck any more at game designing if you actually tried.
This, a thousand times this.
|
Mary Christmas
Christmas Inc
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:34:00 -
[764]
these are some awesome changes.
better late then never
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Cosmoes
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:34:00 -
[765]
Suddenly the fact Ccp aren't trying to change FW doesn't seem like such a bad thing ------------------- piccy |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:34:00 -
[766]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
If its that close why not just wait?
|
Im Super Gay
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:34:00 -
[767]
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
The other half is nerfs to the stuff that isn't actually broken.
|
Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:35:00 -
[768]
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Im going with "if ever" and I doubt we're going to hear a damn thing.
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GeeBee
Gallente Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:36:00 -
[769]
This is a bad change, as many of the changes done by ccp are (eg. sanctum nerf) it is a contradiction of itself as dominion was intended to allow 0.0 to support more players, which is now reduced.
1) the removal of the ability for ships with jump drives to use jump bridges. This is an ABSURD change in nerfing the ability to move capitals into a cynojammed system for strategic defense operations.
2) limiting to 1 jump bridge per system ok so IF this happens(which if ccp cares it won't) we'll be paying twice as much in upgrades to do half as efficient of a way of travelling as we did before....
3) increasing the fuel bay capacity of jump bridges 3x Dont want it. Not worth it. Get a better carrot.
the reasons for this change are unwarranted, if you're attempting to enter a sovereign alliances space for ganks and such learn to pvp better or go home.
I dunno if the intended change is to encourage the larger alliances and coalitions to fall apart and breakdown into smaller ones it will not have that effect. it will just make it harder for all as the larger coalitions are not made because we enjoy holding each others hands but out of necessity for our survival in 0.0.
If anything this CCPs inability to focus on broken factors of the game such as RMT which is still running strong and making a large negative impact upon the game.....WHY THE JUMP BRIDGES?
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Smoking Blunts
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:36:00 -
[770]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
will we get them at the same time as all the nerf's? as only then will it make sence
|
|
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:36:00 -
[771]
Originally by: Cosmoes Suddenly the fact Ccp aren't trying to change FW doesn't seem like such a bad thing
LOL --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
|
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:36:00 -
[772]
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
|
|
Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:36:00 -
[773]
Originally by: Feyleaf Its all about the isk-sink's?
Yes, the isk-sink your wallet will suffer. And the isk-sink my wallet will enjoy XD
|
Glowstix
Broski Enterprises
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:37:00 -
[774]
Edited by: Glowstix on 10/05/2011 22:42:16 Your effort to 'help' logistics pales in comparison to the mass kool aid suicides that will take place when the logistics guys find out they need to tear down, reposition, reset, and refuel a hundred PoSes using the godawful structure mechanics that have needed changes since the day they were introduced. Seriously, **** your fuel bay expansion, you miss the point ENTIRELY as usual. Fix. The. Damn. PoS. Mechanics.
The comments from the PL peanut gallery are amusing, as I'm sure none of them could set up and maintain JB logistics if they had an illustrated pop up book. Too busy blobbing their supers around.
Oh, wait, that's right, this change is also a buff to supercap blobs because it's now harder to highway subcap fleets to tie down these blobs. Thank god you nerfed that subcap mobility, that sure was a rampant problem. Super blobs should now be far less annoyed with rapid reponse subcap fleets moving through territory they've held for at least a month to come defend. If your definition of 'more PvP' is 'solo players dying on gates', then congratulations, we might see progress. Let's gloss over the fact that titans do mass force-projection and that these changes are going to **** all over John Nullsec Doe moving his single ship around to buy exotic dancers or shoot rats or something.
As usual, noble intention, absolutely terrible implementation. For people who tout their sandbox and player-built empires, this is a fairly hamfisted attempt at 'improvement'. Balance supers, rework PoS structures, try again.
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Vyktor Abyss
UK Corp
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:37:00 -
[775]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 10/05/2011 22:41:50
I actually support the Jump Bridge change.
For me they have always been a nice luxury rather than a necessity since I lived in 0.0 well before they appeared.
I thought they were marvelous at first but then a kind of abuse of them set in. For example taking a fun frigate roam through enemy territory, half the gang dying to a sniper HAC fleet on entering 0.0 [ok, no major problem here really coz we've beaten the camp], let fun commence but 10 jumps further into 0.0 meeting the same HAC fleet that jumpbridged ahead - dead.
When any gang (even slow BS) can literally be anywhere in their own or their allies massive Sov territory almost instantly, it kills the game for everyone and encourages blobbing. I'd rather see them become 1 way highways from high sec personally. Let them pump stuff into 0.0 but actually still make it hard taking stuff out - that should fetch more industry taking place out in 0.0.
On the longer term stuff - I'm disappointed your plans are so distant - I for one am pretty tired of Eve already largely due to being fed up by the slower and slower pace of development. This next "iteration" will probably appear more like a marathon than a "sprint" - And even then I think you will probably balls up 0.0 even worse judging by recent deliveries.
Sorry I can't be more positive.
|
Feyleaf
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:37:00 -
[776]
The make these changes that makes radical game changes for alot of ppl.. Yet are afraid to touch the t2 bpo's (or make them available thru npc)
I dont trust you guys anymore.
|
Balthamel Eval'Raman
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:38:00 -
[777]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up. I promise I won't hit you again. It was just a misunderstanding before. It'll be much better this time I swear. You can trust me.
FTFY
|
Mc Dick's
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:38:00 -
[778]
Edited by: Mc ****''s on 10/05/2011 22:38:37 I think this whole Csm idea was bad. you need to have more free votes and referendums so that actual players get to have a say not people who are only on the CSM because they are at the head of a 50,000 character coalition.
I beat if you had the people that this change affects vote on this youd get 75 to 80 % voting no. and you would still do it reguardless ; )
|
Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:38:00 -
[779]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
The confirmation that features of next month will be ****, as usual
|
Celistin
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:39:00 -
[780]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
"fair fights"?
what is this, WoW battlegrounds??
Who ****ing said fair fights? I know how the **** works.
The point is that 90% of the people happy about this change do nothing but roam around looking for solos to make their KB look good. There isn't a whole lot of actual player versus player.
So all this does is make it harder for people who hold sov to defend their space and easier for people who have no sov to get gank kills.
|
|
Shawna Gray
Gallente
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:39:00 -
[781]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
Is that when you plan on doing something really needed like nerfing hybrids?
|
Zamiq
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:40:00 -
[782]
Edited by: Zamiq on 10/05/2011 22:43:23
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
Hey awesome, how about you hold off on the jump bridges until this winter? I mean what is so super important that you need to rush? Unless you want to have a bunch of pale skin geeks finally emerge from their man caves and get a nice tan going?
In the meantime I ask you again, please give us the reason why so many alternative solutions have been turned down?
Please answer why each of these or all of them are not viable:
-JB as an independent structure, ala HUB, anchored at the planet. No shield, no guns. Visible to entire system. -Cooldown between JB jump and warp. Thus forcing the players to linger in the system. -JB jamming/blockade units that allow the roaming gang to close down the system.
Why go with the only solution that will actually increase travel times. Unless of course pvp is not your main focus. In that case this is still about ISK faucet and increased travel over the JB network means less time ratting/mining.
|
Viktoria Potsfel
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:40:00 -
[783]
Originally by: Celistin
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
"fair fights"?
what is this, WoW battlegrounds??
Who ****ing said fair fights? I know how the **** works.
The point is that 90% of the people happy about this change do nothing but roam around looking for solos to make their KB look good. There isn't a whole lot of actual player versus player.
So all this does is make it harder for people who hold sov to defend their space and easier for people who have no sov to get gank kills.
this^
|
Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:41:00 -
[784]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Is that when you plan on doing something really needed like nerfing hybrids?
Have u ever tried to see the KB's searching for the ratio of hybrid ships kills/loses? XD The drugs aren't good for the brains, didn't you?
|
Svennig
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:41:00 -
[785]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
So we get to deal with 6-7 months of ****ty nerfed sov because.....? Why not delay this change until you can roll it out with the others?
|
Mc Dick's
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:42:00 -
[786]
Also How about some reimbursement to the countless I hubs that need to be Trashed and the jumpbridge nets that will be have massive gaps for a month or two while new systems get leveled up to level 3
|
Ay Liz
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:42:00 -
[787]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
I'll look forward to it then. As i said, i don't think the JB changes are necessarily bad.
|
Alty McExpendable
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:42:00 -
[788]
BOOST SUPERCAPITALS
NERF RAILGUNS
Hurr I'm CCP
|
Im Super Gay
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:43:00 -
[789]
Originally by: Alty McExpendable BOOST SUPERCAPITALS
NERF RAILGUNS
Hurr I'm CCP
not emptyquoting
|
Random Comment
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:43:00 -
[790]
more "incentive for conflict" ?
How about: If POS gets shot, EVERYTHING can be unanchored and hauled off. It should have damage, so you have to first go and repair it and can't just kill the tower and then insta re-deploy everything. POS shooting now becomes pure robbery, you better be up for defending your stuff .. there, that's incentive. |
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Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:43:00 -
[791]
Originally by: Alty McExpendable BOOST SUPERCAPITALS
NERF RAILGUNS
Hurr I'm CCP
I remove the above post talking about drugs. This is the right one
|
northwesten
Amarr Trinity Corporate Services White Angels.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:44:00 -
[792]
READ THIS QUOTE
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Just incase no one get it the first time
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
------------------------------------
|
Feyleaf
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:44:00 -
[793]
You guys planning on turning the CSM into pvp to define the borders of the sandbox?
Just wondering.. interesting concept.
|
Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:44:00 -
[794]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
Not bloody likely. If anything you'll announce you're removing sov altogether.
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Indy Rider
Amarr Element 115. Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:46:00 -
[795]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:48:00 -
[796]
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
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Elzon1
Caldari Shadow Boys Corp White Angels.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:49:00 -
[797]
Quote: "On the other hand, we don't want to take jumpbridges out, since they provide a great way of reaching whatever content youÆre using quickly."
"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list."
Those two statements are highly contradictory, don't you think? Don't your realize you just made jumpbridges pointless?
So now only subcaps can use jumpbridges? There really isn't a point to having subcaps use jumpbridges in case you didn't notice. Support fleets are supposed to come in with the supercapitals, not wait for them. Now you FORCE the use of titans if one wishes to commit to a 0.0 battle.
Having ONLY subcaps use jumpbridges is just asking for trouble, especially if there happens to be spies among them. With capitals you can be more selective as to who can get access to the jumpbridges, subcaps are too numerous for them to be trustworthy. I have also heard that anyone with the password can take fuel from the jumpbridge, so why even risk subcaps using the jumpbridges?
Another thing, with the reduced reponse time to a surprise threat you leave no possiblity of countering a massive fleet lagging out an entire system to prevent others from coming into system. This change will make the effect of lagfests even more damaging in terms of 0.0 warfare.
Perhaps implementing such a change only when both time dialation and the treaty system are to be implemented?
Time dialation to prevent the lagfests from being too much of a problem and the treaty system to allow low sec/high sec jews to come make their money in 0.0 for a fee and/or tax.
But overall, DRF ftw? I don't know where, I don't know when... but something awful is going to happen xD |
Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:49:00 -
[798]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 22:51:11 Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 22:50:42
Originally by: northwesten READ THIS QUOTE
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly this, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of missioning and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having carriers etc. jump in to the jumpbridge/cynogen I'm camping. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp cynogens, it's because people are stupid and don't read intel channels. If people actually read intel and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
Just incase no one get it the first time
again ¼¼...
We will try it with this:
As someone who spends 90% of my time in eve doing exactly L5's, it's a whole lot more effort than pretty much any other kind of PVP and is incredibly risky. While people do absolutely get ganked on them all the time, it's almost entirely because of laziness on the part of the gankee. I can't tell you how many times I've seen myself or my alts reported in channels over and over and still having strat cruisers etc. jump in to the L5 missions I'm grinding. This isn't because it's ~so easy~ to camp Tengu's, it's because people are stupid and don't read directional scanner. If people actually read directional and scout themselves, it's nearly impossible to catch them.
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:50:00 -
[799]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
Keep up the good work. 0.0 needs change.
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Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:50:00 -
[800]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
How about you just release the 60% of dominion that never got released? Abathur already did the work for you.
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SmashTech
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:52:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Alty McExpendable BOOST SUPERCAPITALS
NERF RAILGUNS
Hurr I'm CCP
And let's call that the whole expansion. And release it over a series of six months.
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Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:52:00 -
[802]
Originally by: Cellistara
Not bloody likely. If anything you'll announce you're removing sov altogether.
Might as well, what benefit of paying for ****ty anoms is there over NPC 0.0 ayway?
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:53:00 -
[803]
Edited by: FellRaven on 10/05/2011 22:53:14 SO WHAT'S THE RUSH
BAND OF DEVS IS NOW RAIDEN
SMELLS LIKE T20 SELF INTEREST ALL OVER AGAIN
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:53:00 -
[804]
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
Keep up the good work. 0.0 needs change.
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:54:00 -
[805]
Originally by: Im Super Gay
Originally by: Cellistara
Not bloody likely. If anything you'll announce you're removing sov altogether.
Might as well, what benefit of paying for ****ty anoms is there over NPC 0.0 ayway?
None at all. Sov upgrades are now useless anyway.
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DaiTengu
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:54:00 -
[806]
Edited by: DaiTengu on 10/05/2011 22:55:16
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
So tell me again why you're pushing this horribly conceived jump bridge idea through now then? are you just trying to make it harder for small alliances to survive in 0.0?
This won't have much effect on large alliances at all, aside from making logistics ( a ****ty, ****ty job in eve online ) harder for newbies who can't fly capitals.
The only thing I can really think of is that this is a half-hearted attempt at making building supercaps more difficult. Seriously, if you want to make building supercaps more difficult. target that.
Edit: I should add that I'm perfectly happy with not allowing capitals to use jump bridges (exceptions should be made for jump freighters though, which can use gates)
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:54:00 -
[807]
Posting in a NC/DC impotent rage thread about more changes that will have little impact on their boring blueball lifestyle.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:55:00 -
[808]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
Ok, thats great but it still doesn't explain why these changes are so urgent they can't wait for the grand overhaul.
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Svennig
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:55:00 -
[809]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
So, what's the problem with leaving the deployment of this JB change until then, when it can be fully evaluated in the context of all the other changes? That would seem to be significantly more sensible.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:55:00 -
[810]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Why not work on that instead of making living in 0.0 more boring for the subrace of players that dont use capitals and multiple accounts.
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SmashTech
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:56:00 -
[811]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Originally by: CCP Herpaderp Economist Dude We're carefully monitoring the technetium situation. And have been doing so for the past two years while it spins out of control.
:ccp:
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Giselle Garner
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 22:56:00 -
[812]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Better resource distribution -> 5-6 systems in all null-sec worth to live in. More PVP goals -> yes, concentred in less systems but more populated as you restrict the mobility in null-sec...
good, you are doing it good
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:57:00 -
[813]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Why not work on that instead of making living in 0.0 more boring for the subrace of players that dont use capitals and multiple accounts.
More fights = more boring?
Didn't realize that, no wonder so many carebears moved to null.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:58:00 -
[814]
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Why not work on that instead of making living in 0.0 more boring for the subrace of players that dont use capitals and multiple accounts.
More fights = more boring?
Didn't realize that, no wonder so many carebears moved to null.
I'm not gonna get anymore fights.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:58:00 -
[815]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
I'm calling bull**** right now. What CCP promises as future content and what is delivered have been two very different things, historically. If the plan is to deliver something in two years, then that is when we will find out how ****ed we are (yet again) by the crack CCP game design team. That is assuming that people still have active subscriptions.
Also: Interesting game design choice regarding jump bridges considering the current server-side game environment. Would you please explain how creating additional "session changes" for large conventional fleets moving towards a conflict is considered an improvement?
Not an uncommon scenario:
1) Large fleet uses jump bridge A. Session change. Random disconnects and now a third of the fleet looks to be neutral in the overview.
2) Large fleet warps to gate and jumps through. Session change. Random disconnects and another third of the fleet looks to be neutral in the overview. [hint: this is the unnecessary step.]
3) Large fleet warps to jump bridge B and jumps through. Session change. Random disconnects and more fleet mates turn neutral in the overview.
You get the idea.
Furthermore, this increases the chance of a hot drop on the other side of the gate when the fleet jumping in is at a complete disadvantage due to ****ty game mechanics rather than fleet composition or the competence of the pilots.
Good thing the big alliances have titans for bridging their conventional fleets around.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:58:00 -
[816]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 22:59:00 -
[817]
Time to be a carebear in null-sec. Ou yeah!
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:00:00 -
[818]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
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Ohfor Godsake
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:01:00 -
[819]
And while I'm reading the forums here, reading Soundwave not answering why a big change in 0.0 isn't being considered in the planned, announced big upcoming change in 0.0, a bomber is being reported in intel camping jump bridges.
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:01:00 -
[820]
Edited by: Ribeye Jaksom on 10/05/2011 23:02:23
Originally by: progodlegend
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
The attacker wants combat, has organization pre-set up (no need to form a defense gang or such nonsense) can select for "what they can afford to lose", picks the location of the fight, picks the time of the fight, can pre-select shiptypes to increase the power of their gang (right number of logis to other ships, all one type of tank, ect). The attacker has huge advantages you don't consider here.
Your an idiot, the attacker has to bring a gang type that is strong and can counter a variety of fleet types, because the defender can form up any type of direct counter they need. The defenders can form an equally impressive fleet with no problem if they don't suck, and then use JB's to get behind the attackers and trap them. The attackers don't pick anything.
The fact that the defenders don't know how to setup a competent fleet quickly is not an excuse for the attacker having an advantage.
Defender doesn't want to fight, he wants to run sanctums, use his bots and collect moon goo in peace. That is why they are angry.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:01:00 -
[821]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 10/05/2011 23:02:19
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
Why are the jumpbridges a priority.. and being implemented on such short notice?
when so many things are long over due.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:01:00 -
[822]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave bleh
Don't touch that unscannable Tengu's. They are good right now :)
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:02:00 -
[823]
Originally by: Ohfor Godsake And while I'm reading the forums here, reading Soundwave not answering why a big change in 0.0 isn't being considered in the planned, announced big upcoming change in 0.0, a bomber is being reported in intel camping jump bridges.
A bomber you say? Whatever will you do?
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:03:00 -
[824]
lolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololol
umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?umadncgoons?
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:03:00 -
[825]
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Why not work on that instead of making living in 0.0 more boring for the subrace of players that dont use capitals and multiple accounts.
More fights = more boring?
Didn't realize that, no wonder so many carebears moved to null.
What fights? All small gangs do is shoot industrials and miners then blueball anyone who comes after em while complaining about blobs. I'm sorry you can only get 10 people to join your gang when you know 50 people will fleet up to drive you off, either get more people in your corp or alliance or stay out. draketrain was a single corp that regularly invaded Dek, but they would bring 20-30 people and stand and fight when DC responded, sometimes they'd win, sometimes DC would but that's because they knew what they were doing, unlike 90% of the scrubs who regularly roam nullsec in their little gank gangs.
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Kazanir Talih
Eighty Joule Brewery Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:03:00 -
[826]
Edited by: Kazanir Talih on 10/05/2011 23:04:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
So jump bridges are important enough to nerf AS FAST AS POSSIBLE, I.E. IN A MONTH OR LESS, but changes to make nullsec more playable, livable, and enjoyable for everyone are barely getting off the ground in their design stage?
I don't buy your bull****. Keep in mind that this is a month after one of the major upgrades to sov 0.0 livability (Dominion anomaly upgrades) was nerfed without either warning nor a pass by either CSM 5 or CSM 6. Now we have a second pretty major nerf and you frankly admit that you're only starting to hammer out basic design principles for something we won't see for 6-9 months.
Like I said -- I don't buy it, and I doubt the thinking 0.0 resident will either.
No one in their right mind thinks jump bridges are game-breaking enough to nerf this hard and this precipitously. Supercapitals and technetium imbalance are doing a lot more to hurt the game than jump bridges ever have or ever will and we don't see a peep from CCP about either of them.
If you want to put your money where your mouth is you would revert the anomaly change until the CSM can voice their opinions on it, and delay the jump bridge change until a comprehensive package of revamps can be implemented to nullsec.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:03:00 -
[827]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
Why are the jumpbridges a priority.. and being implemented on such short notice?
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:04:00 -
[828]
Originally by: Alexander Knott A bomber you say? Whatever will you do?
The bomber will make... BOMB!!! Don't worry, his owner can buy 100 more
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Jogyn
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:04:00 -
[829]
Lived in 0.0 for 6 years now, never used a jump bridge.
Good changes, dont let the haters bring you down.
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:06:00 -
[830]
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Ohfor Godsake And while I'm reading the forums here, reading Soundwave not answering why a big change in 0.0 isn't being considered in the planned, announced big upcoming change in 0.0, a bomber is being reported in intel camping jump bridges.
A bomber you say? Whatever will you do?
What can you do, he's cloaked. Guess you could get 50 people to drop containers in a 100km radius around the jb 2km apart. Bout the only way to counter it.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:06:00 -
[831]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
TBH, if this is a small sample CCPs ideas for 0.0 then please just leave it as it is. I would rather you actually did something to make it more fun not make my life dealing with POSes 10x harder and if ANYONE in CCP stands up and says it will make it fun I demand you fire them into the Atlantic covered in long range shark bait.
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:07:00 -
[832]
Originally by: Jogyn Lived in 0.0 for 6 years now, never used a jump bridge.
Good changes, dont let the haters bring you down.
Quoting for truth, justice, and the american way.
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Magere
Amarr GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:07:00 -
[833]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
So another ****ty half implemented CCP expansion. Great job stoffer. Can't wait to see what you break this time.
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[834]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Ohfor Godsake And while I'm reading the forums here, reading Soundwave not answering why a big change in 0.0 isn't being considered in the planned, announced big upcoming change in 0.0, a bomber is being reported in intel camping jump bridges.
A bomber you say? Whatever will you do?
What can you do, he's cloaked. Guess you could get 50 people to drop containers in a 100km radius around the jb 2km apart. Bout the only way to counter it.
If he is cloaked then what is the problem. He can't attack you cloaked.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[835]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
Changing the unscannable Tengu's is so easy as lowering his bonuses for Signal Strenght. So you won't change it. Good job. You will receive the compensation of the syndicate @ June, 1st :)
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1Of9
Gallente The Circle SOLAR WING
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[836]
"you get what you saw"
This is the direct result of having goons as devs, goons in csm, goons influencing ccp left and right..
Time to collect eh?
Enjoy!
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The Mittani
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[837]
You know, reading the way people are sperging about 1b/1s about it being the end of the world makes me increasingly annoyed with that position. It's a pretty minor change in perspective.
You shouldn't have complete safety in 0.0; you should learn to be hard, to dodge gankers, to coordinate defense gangs, and die repeatedly until you stop being stupid. In the old days of Syndicate, my people learned how to be hard by dying - over and over and over again - until they learned to not fear death, and either figured out how to play EVE or quit.
Safety is the cause of bloat and J4Gs, which are the death of any serious alliance. 1B/1S allows fast travel and still some convenience, but it also prevents folks from feeling secure and untouchable. You can't just rent a system and mine away in complete safety anymore; you have to learn to be smart, or die. If your alliance can't protect its travelers, or its travelers can't figure out how to watch intel channels and be smart, fix your alliance or find a better one.
Obviously, I think that NPC 0.0 shouldn't be safe either; station services there should be attack-able, I'm increasingly coming to believe.
The Mittani for CSM6 Sins of a Solar Spymaster
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[838]
Edited by: WisdomPanda on 10/05/2011 23:09:06
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Indy Rider
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Forgive us if we dont take your half finished expansion liking word for it.
Give us the entire story now.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
So why rush this now?
Edit: Let me rephrase that; Why not bundle it? Why no grace period? ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
I Love Boobies
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[839]
I find it quite humourous that 0.0 citizens complain about Carebear tears, telling them that Eve is and has always been geared towards PVP and so on, that when CCP want's to implement something to bring about more PvP, they rebel and flood the forums with tears of their own. I see no problem with limiting one JB per system. It could go back to the way it was before when there were no JBs at all. Adapt or Die... or rage quit and give me all your stuff. :D
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:08:00 -
[840]
Larger changes?! lol this will change the face of 0.0 and be very good for some and very bad for others.. not on a person by person basis.
The game has to change but how can you call this a small change..
id love an example of a big change..?
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Shade Millith
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:09:00 -
[841]
CCP not playing it's own game :nonshocker:
JB's were never safe.
There's a nice little trick to prevent a hostile POS from engaging you, unless someone manually targets each gun.
Until that's changed, JB's will never be the 'Safe travel' ability people claim. ------------------------
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Molly Roger
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:09:00 -
[842]
Edited by: Molly Roger on 10/05/2011 23:15:27 Edited by: Molly Roger on 10/05/2011 23:10:05 Edited by: Molly Roger on 10/05/2011 23:09:23
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
LOL. In a month...no wait...I mean this winter...no wait...i mean we are going to look at it this winter and change something in two years.
Just trollin :)
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
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Justin Cody
Caldari Instant Annihilation Everto Rex Regis
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:09:00 -
[843]
CCP Soundwave,
I understand where you are coming from. You want to make 00 a harder place to live in. Yet you want to allow the small alliances to "start out". This hurts the small guy.
Because they want to steamroll this change like they did with the anomaly nerf you will see people rage about it and rightfully so.
Also this makes bridging pointless for defenders trying to get caps in under cover of cyno gen to defend a POs against conventional forces.
This again hurts the small guy.
I dare you CCP, dare you to do SOMETHING sensible for the small and medium sized alliances. Try it. I double dog dare you.
Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:09:00 -
[844]
Edited by: Svennig on 10/05/2011 23:10:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
I don't understand this - the time to reconfigure the networks will be the same no matter when they are deployed. Today, tomorrow, next month, next year, whatever. It's also clearly not a concern given the lack of warning about this change that's been given.
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:10:00 -
[845]
Edited by: Patty Patrick Patterson on 10/05/2011 23:13:26
Originally by: The Mittani You know, reading the way people are sperging about 1b/1s about it being the end of the world makes me increasingly annoyed with that position. It's a pretty minor change in perspective.
You shouldn't have complete safety in 0.0; you should learn to be hard, to dodge gankers, to coordinate defense gangs, and die repeatedly until you stop being stupid. In the old days of Syndicate, my people learned how to be hard by dying - over and over and over again - until they learned to not fear death, and either figured out how to play EVE or quit.
Safety is the cause of bloat and J4Gs, which are the death of any serious alliance. 1B/1S allows fast travel and still some convenience, but it also prevents folks from feeling secure and untouchable. You can't just rent a system and mine away in complete safety anymore; you have to learn to be smart, or die. If your alliance can't protect its travelers, or its travelers can't figure out how to watch intel channels and be smart, fix your alliance or find a better one.
Obviously, I think that NPC 0.0 shouldn't be safe either; station services there should be attack-able, I'm increasingly coming to believe.
So how long until goons mutiny under your support of this measure?
Originally by: Justin Cody
This again hurts the small guy.
Everything hurts the small guy you twit. It's because he is small. Emaciated people will starve to death faster during a famine than healthy people. Those trained to live in the wilderness will survive stranded there much longer than a nerd wearing a quafe t-shirt and sneakers.
You can't reasonably argue that any change which "hurts the small guy," is bad. Literally NOTHING can be done to affect anyone without the small guy feeling it the most.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:11:00 -
[846]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
People need time to reconfigure the networks sure, but they'll have to reconfigure them when the next set of changes hits too. And I contest that they function independently, surely a CCP employee of all people should realise that nothing in the game does. Along with the anomaly changes it represents a significant quality of life drop for individual players actually trying to live in 0.0 without really affecting the alliances they're part of (short of the players leaving I guess but that doesn't seem like a worthy goal).
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:12:00 -
[847]
Soundwave, on behalf of the eve pvp community, I have to say "THANK YOU!" and "We love you" for not forgetting the core eve principles like so many other games that "sell out".
0.0 is supposed to be the pvp area of the game, not "highsec 2.0 now with 40% less risk" and 99% safe travel. ____________________________________________
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Absocold
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:12:00 -
[848]
It seems the large majority of people who think this is a great idea are those who don't own any jumpbridges. Let me give you a reason to think this is a bad idea.
I currently sell enough Fernite Carbide in Jita to make hundreds of T2 Minmatar ships every month. I do this with 8 POS's in 6 different systems in 0.0 space. I am able to run so many POS's because of our excellent jumpbridge system. This change will make it too difficult, time consuming and dangerous to continue this project.
So what is the result? Prices for T2 Minmatar ships goes up due to less supply of production material. Prices on a half dozen other moon materials I also mine on these POS's goes up causing hundreds of other items to go up in price. 6 POS's are no longer being fueled and filled with reactives so there's another 800,000,000m3 of material that's not being bought - the people that produce those items now get less cash for their efforts due to less demand. Me and my corp no longer get the profits from these towers to spend on reimbursing warships for our members. Etc. It's a domino effect that reaches a lot farther than you'd think.
Big deal, who cares, only one person, right? But how many others will feel as I do and shut down their industry machines in 0.0? That's an easy one to answer... lots.
Less industry and trade + less materials available = increased prices = less pewpew.
When industry takes a hit, EVERYONE takes a hit.
PS. And to add insult to injury, the recent ratting nerf has made it even harder to make any money.
PPS. I can't come out and fight you if I can't afford to lose my ship!
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:12:00 -
[849]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:14:42 To habitants of 0.0: won't go up with the PVP. Only will change the way that ppl in 0.0 do the things :) To habitants in high-sec: they won't demand more items, so no buff of the trade at all XD To habitants in low-sec: we are stupid, but we are happy being it. Some ppl can say we are carebear, some ppl can say we are stupid not living in 0.0. But we half of the path of both ways, so we are happy as we are not stupid nor carebear :)
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:13:00 -
[850]
Originally by: Jogyn Lived in 0.0 for 6 years now, never used a jump bridge.
Good changes, dont let the haters bring you down.
PL doesn't have enough sov to warrant JBs, and when they did they failed at holding it. Not something to brag about. Besides you all have supercaps, whats the point.
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faddl
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:14:00 -
[851]
Another thing if capitals cant go into station systems via jumpbridge , does that mean u cant cynojam ure mainstaging system ? This isnt that cool
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:15:00 -
[852]
Originally by: faddl Another thing if capitals cant go into station systems via jumpbridge , does that mean u cant cynojam ure mainstaging system ? This isnt that cool
Buy you a friend.
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:16:00 -
[853]
Originally by: Absocold When industry takes a hit, EVERYONE takes a hit.
Then bend over Abbigale, because i'm ready for those hits.
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Liang Nuren
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:18:00 -
[854]
Originally by: Absocold
I currently sell enough Fernite Carbide in Jita to make hundreds of T2 Minmatar ships every month. I do this with 8 POS's in 6 different systems in 0.0 space. I am able to run so many POS's because of our excellent jumpbridge system. This change will make it too difficult, time consuming and dangerous to continue this project.
Does this mean that I can start up my Fernite Carbide tower again? The price has been so low that it hasn't been profitable to run it. :) -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:18:00 -
[855]
Originally by: Absocold It seems the large majority of people who think this is a great idea are those who don't own any jumpbridges. Let me give you a reason to think this is a bad idea.
I currently sell enough Fernite Carbide in Jita to make hundreds of T2 Minmatar ships every month. I do this with 8 POS's in 6 different systems in 0.0 space. I am able to run so many POS's because of our excellent jumpbridge system. This change will make it too difficult, time consuming and dangerous to continue this project.
So what is the result? Prices for T2 Minmatar ships goes up due to less supply of production material. Prices on a half dozen other moon materials I also mine on these POS's goes up causing hundreds of other items to go up in price. 6 POS's are no longer being fueled and filled with reactives so there's another 800,000,000m3 of material that's not being bought - the people that produce those items now get less cash for their efforts due to less demand. Me and my corp no longer get the profits from these towers to spend on reimbursing warships for our members. Etc. It's a domino effect that reaches a lot farther than you'd think.
Big deal, who cares, only one person, right? But how many others will feel as I do and shut down their industry machines in 0.0? That's an easy one to answer... lots.
Less industry and trade + less materials available = increased prices = less pewpew.
When industry takes a hit, EVERYONE takes a hit.
PS. And to add insult to injury, the recent ratting nerf has made it even harder to make any money.
PPS. I can't come out and fight you if I can't afford to lose my ship!
Same thing with mining since it will reduce the risk of camping systems even more and make it harder to shift ops if enemies come round, can't get Morphite, Zydrine, or Megacyte in decent amounts anywhere but null, and we sure as hell don't use it all, so we export it, not gonna happen anymore. Enjoy more expensive everything.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:19:00 -
[856]
sup umad _____
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:19:00 -
[857]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Jogyn Lived in 0.0 for 6 years now, never used a jump bridge.
Good changes, dont let the haters bring you down.
PL doesn't have enough sov to warrant JBs, and when they did they failed at holding it. Not something to brag about. Besides you all have supercaps, whats the point.
QFT, Pandemic Legion is just a bunch of punks that do drive bys, then chest beat that they are actually as bad ass as the USMC.
Destruction is easy, actually building something persistent and holding it together takes real skills.
If you want to see just how cool PL is, just look up their forum mirror, you can see just what great souls they really are.
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:19:00 -
[858]
Edited by: Patty Patrick Patterson on 10/05/2011 23:21:08
Originally by: Cellistara Enjoy more expensive everything.
Looking forward to it. GTFO
Originally by: Miso Hawnee ~whiteknight PLhate~
This bob the builder **** is getting old. Please come up with something new, NC alts.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:20:00 -
[859]
I have no objection to the change if its part of a larger plan that everything slots together however its just another 'lets have another prod at the 0.0 souffle' we'll if you keep prodding the whole bloody thing with crash around you.
DONT implement this as a stand alone alteration, there is simply NO reason to do it other than to **** off sov holding alliances.
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Ribeye Jaksom
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:20:00 -
[860]
Originally by: Absocold
I currently sell enough Fernite Carbide in Jita to make hundreds of T2 Minmatar ships every month. I do this with 8 POS's in 6 different systems in 0.0 space. I am able to run so many POS's because of our excellent jumpbridge system. This change will make it too difficult, time consuming and dangerous to continue this project.
aww poor babby.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:21:00 -
[861]
My machiavelic planning to get rich with a T1 item is going really well. Remember people, buy arty ammo and train Minmie ships :)
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:21:00 -
[862]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 10/05/2011 23:23:40 ccp get your priorities straight.. 0.0 has been nerfed to hell in regards to value for the avg pve/pvp player..
how about you make it worthwhile.. and then make it "harder" I support changes if you promise me to release something that isnt useless or a nerf.. last thing i remember was the rig changes.. that was awesome..
and get rid of t2 bpo or make them hard to get but available thru npc's again lol.. funny how you guys will rather screw over a big bunch of ppl then a few really whiny ones..
Just an example.. get you priorities straight and for once make something that add's to the game in a meaningful way for the players. And stop calling nerf's with isk sinks and a little glitter for expansions.
and dont call it a sendbox when you toss things around like this on such short notice.. its hardly a player driven game.
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:22:00 -
[863]
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson So how long until goons mutiny under your support of this measure?
We're not against the measure outright. We're against the fact it is being implemented and pushed through alone, miles in advance of a comprehensive 0.0 rebalance, including:
- Supercaps
- Technetium
- Dependence on Jita
- Supercaps
- NPC 0.0 Invulnerability
- POS reworking
- Supercaps
- Less enforced tedium
- Supercaps
Give us those instead of hitting us with a bigger stick and replacing the carrot with a ****
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:22:00 -
[864]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf ... Why are the jumpbridges a priority.. and being implemented on such short notice?
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
If you are referring to null-sec entities re-building their bridge networks, that 7 day deadline is completely artificial and imposed by CCP. There are no null-sec entities crying for these bridge changes to be implemented in 7 days, I assure you. Networks that too months or years to build will now need to be dismantled and re-configured. This involves a great many person-hours for an arbitrary change.
Please elaborate on why CCP decided for this change to be implemented in 7 days.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:22:00 -
[865]
Originally by: The Mittani
You shouldn't have complete safety in 0.0; you should learn to be hard, to dodge gankers, to coordinate defense gangs, and die repeatedly until you stop being stupid. In the old days of Syndicate, my people learned how to be hard by dying - over and over and over again - until they learned to not fear death, and either figured out how to play EVE or quit.
If you are stupid enough to get killed on a gate while not reading intel chats you are stupid enough to get killed on JB's. At most you will get to kill a few more ibises when i send my scout ahead.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:22:00 -
[866]
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson Edited by: Patty Patrick Patterson on 10/05/2011 23:13:26
Originally by: The Mittani You know, reading the way people are sperging about 1b/1s about it being the end of the world makes me increasingly annoyed with that position. It's a pretty minor change in perspective.
You shouldn't have complete safety in 0.0; you should learn to be hard, to dodge gankers, to coordinate defense gangs, and die repeatedly until you stop being stupid. In the old days of Syndicate, my people learned how to be hard by dying - over and over and over again - until they learned to not fear death, and either figured out how to play EVE or quit.
Safety is the cause of bloat and J4Gs, which are the death of any serious alliance. 1B/1S allows fast travel and still some convenience, but it also prevents folks from feeling secure and untouchable. You can't just rent a system and mine away in complete safety anymore; you have to learn to be smart, or die. If your alliance can't protect its travelers, or its travelers can't figure out how to watch intel channels and be smart, fix your alliance or find a better one.
Obviously, I think that NPC 0.0 shouldn't be safe either; station services there should be attack-able, I'm increasingly coming to believe.
So how long until goons mutiny under your support of this measure?
Not a goon, but I don't expect a mutiny. This change might be a good idea (and might get popular support) IF it was accompanied by (and pre-placed in the context of) other, well-reasoned buffs to 0.0 which helped to realise a better vision of 0.0. As it is, this is just an ass****ing under the promise that good stuff will come later, with no ability to evaluate whether the "good stuff" is a enough of a benefit at an alliance, corp and member level to balance the changes presented here.
And that's just. Completely. ******ed.
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:23:00 -
[867]
Edited by: Patty Patrick Patterson on 10/05/2011 23:24:38
Originally by: Rainus Max NO reason
Originally by: Rainus Max **** off sov holding alliances.
That is a pretty good reason.
Originally by: xttz Give us those instead of hitting us with a bigger stick and replacing the carrot with a ****
Over-reating in true :condi: style. Never sto.. oh who am I kidding!?
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Molly Roger
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:23:00 -
[868]
I haz and idea. Before we encourage more and larger fleet fights...lets fix fleet fight lag!!!!
Yeah I went there. Had problems shooting at targets with 300 in system the other day, neither fleet was a drake blob either so we cant blame missiles.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:24:00 -
[869]
Who like the icreceam juice?
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:24:00 -
[870]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf ... Why are the jumpbridges a priority.. and being implemented on such short notice?
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
If you are referring to null-sec entities re-building their bridge networks, that 7 day deadline is completely artificial and imposed by CCP. There are no null-sec entities crying for these bridge changes to be implemented in 7 days, I assure you. Networks that too months or years to build will now need to be dismantled and re-configured. This involves a great many person-hours for an arbitrary change.
Please elaborate on why CCP decided for this change to be implemented in 7 days.
DRF and PL probably are.
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:24:00 -
[871]
Nerf 0.0 by Nerfing ISK making opportunities and now Nerf how people move around 0.0 and in general how Jita will be seeded once people go **** that.
JEEEEEZE do you actually want people to live in 0.0?
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Nirnaeth Ornoediad
Caldari Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:24:00 -
[872]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Soundwave, on behalf of the eve pvp community, I have to say "THANK YOU!" and "We love you" for not forgetting the core eve principles like so many other games that "sell out".
0.0 is supposed to be the pvp area of the game, not "highsec 2.0 now with 40% less risk" and 99% safe travel.
LOL - At first I thought this said "now with 40% less isk". --------------------------------------------- U.S. Diplomat Cryo Innovations
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:25:00 -
[873]
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson
Originally by: Rainus Max NO reason
Originally by: Rainus Max **** off sov holding alliances.
That is a pretty good reason.
Yes it is if you're a PL member who's mother drank a little too much during pregnancy, not if you're a real life corporation with real life customers.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:25:00 -
[874]
Originally by: xttz
Originally by: Patty Patrick Patterson So how long until goons mutiny under your support of this measure?
We're not against the measure outright. We're against the fact it is being implemented and pushed through alone, miles in advance of a comprehensive 0.0 rebalance, including:
- Supercaps
- Technetium
- Dependence on Jita
- Supercaps
- NPC 0.0 Invulnerability
- POS reworking
- Supercaps
- Less enforced tedium
- Supercaps
Give us those instead of hitting us with a bigger stick and replacing the carrot with a ****
Please give us that patch instead.
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Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:25:00 -
[875]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
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psycho freak
Minmatar the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:25:00 -
[876]
Edited by: psycho freak on 10/05/2011 23:26:09 hmmm
a good day indeed
to all the whiners
its not like we never had jb's b4
npc 0.0 as no jb do you see them so called small allainces crying
adapt or die or go join another game
yo ccp while your at it why not change moon goo
make it random or some sh!t
good job ( for a change ) ccp
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 -
[877]
Originally by: Molly Roger I haz and idea. Before we encourage more and larger fleet fights...lets fix fleet fight lag!!!!
Yeah I went there. Had problems shooting at targets with 300 in system the other day, neither fleet was a drake blob either so we cant blame missiles.
U are lame, and your family doesn't know it :)
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Patty Patrick Patterson
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 -
[878]
Originally by: StuRyan Nerf 0.0 by Nerfing ISK making opportunities and now Nerf how people move around 0.0 and in general how Jita will be seeded once people go **** that.
JEEEEEZE do you actually want people to live in 0.0?
GB2WOW
I hear there are goons there aswell, but i'm not sure they cry as hard.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 -
[879]
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
Incursions and little things.
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GKO
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:26:00 -
[880]
I already wrote that for the last changes, but m÷÷÷÷÷÷h:
Soundwave is a cool guy with lots of ideas, but his consultants tell him bull****. I personally invite you to fly with me through 0.0 to see the areas, where changes are needed. We will move through lowsec, please use a nano fit (hit me up if you need help).
anyway, great priorisation from CCP here, this was the change most of us needed right now. Please buff hel next.
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Sovox
Amarr Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:27:00 -
[881]
Edited by: Sovox on 10/05/2011 23:31:45
Welcome to gate camp and super caps online.. Sounds exciting
I did not know using dictors with infinite point and warp scrams with a 99.999999% chance of hitting while ganking on a gate was uber PVP. And i am talking as both being the invader or defender both options suck and are boring!
Good job CCP for removing yet another strategic part of 0,0 warfare and instead of making war more strategic by removing choke points you created it so that all we have to look forward to is being traffic controlled and ganked on a gate while not being able to quick respond to invaders or try to trap supers or red fleets..
No worries dude been through this before with S.O.E and i figure the average good MMO's peak is 4 to 6 years before the development takes a huge dump. You guys peaked just before Dominion and its been crap ever since then.
You just cant go around changing systems and mechanics in a sand box type of game. I mean really whats the point of building anything when the rules keep changing. EVE was once a pretty stable game now its just an average run of the mill buggy crap mmo with a whole bunch of unfinished systems such as factional War and WH space, and with an ever changing set of rules like any other typical theme park MMO. Whats next Battle Grounds and War Fronts? lol
BTW thanx for fixing Gallente with the same urgency you are nerfing ****!
Peace out good look with the Vampire MMO you ***s!!!
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:27:00 -
[882]
Originally by: WisdomPanda So why rush this now?
Edit: Let me rephrase that; Why not bundle it? Why no grace period?
Because it's easier to seek forgiveness than permission, and the CSM will be seeing them soon.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:27:00 -
[883]
Originally by: psycho freak Edited by: psycho freak on 10/05/2011 23:26:09 hmmm
a good day indeed
to all the whiners
its not like we never had jb's b4
npc 0.0 as no jb do you see them so called small allainces crying
adapt or die or go join another game
yo ccp while your at it why not change moon goo
make it random or some sh!t
good job ( for a change ) ccp
Yes because a 0.0 NPC corp that takes only 2 jumps to get from one side of their space to another has a reason to complain about travel.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:28:00 -
[884]
Originally by: psycho freak Edited by: psycho freak on 10/05/2011 23:26:09 hmmm
a good day indeed
to all the whiners
its not like we never had jb's b4
npc 0.0 as no jb do you see them so called small allainces crying
adapt or die or go join another game
yo ccp while your at it why not change moon goo
make it random or some sh!t
good job ( for a change ) ccp
More coward PVP'ers under a 1000+ member alliance XD This thread is full of it :P
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:29:00 -
[885]
Originally by: Rainus Max I have no objection to the change if its part of a larger plan that everything slots together however its just another 'lets have another prod at the 0.0 souffle' we'll if you keep prodding the whole bloody thing with crash around you.
DONT implement this as a stand alone alteration, there is simply NO reason to do it other than to **** off sov holding alliances.
nice timing too..
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Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:30:00 -
[886]
Originally by: StuRyan Nerf 0.0 by Nerfing ISK making opportunities and now Nerf how people move around 0.0 and in general how Jita will be seeded once people go **** that.
JEEEEEZE do you actually want people to live in 0.0?
Based on the recent and upcoming 0.0 changes, CCP doesn't want people to live in 0.0.
While we're at it lets remove warp to 0 to increase pvp opportunities.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:31:00 -
[887]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:31:34 I found out what they want! They want to destroy the big alliances! If there are no so easyness for JB's, that large alliance won't accumulate 500 pilots in a 0.0 system, so part of the alliance will change of alliance.
so.... ===>>>> more PVP
EDIT: the more ironic is the stupid CEO of the largest one giving support to this XD
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:31:00 -
[888]
Edited by: Mr LaForge on 10/05/2011 23:31:21
Quote: "The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month."
Ok, then let me end my cyno whenever I want without waiting 10 minutes doing nothing.
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Levarr Burton
B0rthole Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:31:00 -
[889]
Originally by: Weaselior
Could you comment on the reasoning behind nerfing 0.0 now, and then revamping it "later" rather than a coherent overall change that makes sense and addresses the region in a unified way - instead of this "make bad change, promise fix in six months", especially given CCP's extremely bad record on delivering things promised in advance.
Skipping a dozen or so pages here, but I would like to see this answered. CCP has, frankly, a horrible track record when it comes to feature iteration. FW is crap, PI was pushed out the door both behind schedule and under finished, the Dominion Sovereignty updates were never completely implemented, T3s haven't been fully implemented (lol still can't refit @ POS), Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist, Incarna has been on the way for at least 4 years, new ship skins started rolling out last year, and so far we have 5 that I'm aware of, POSes still suck, etc. Hearing "later" from CCP has a long history of meaning "we'll never get around to that."
Regardless of the concrete pros and cons surrounding the impending nerf, it is simply irresponsible to make such a drastic change so suddenly (not enough notice to even remap existing networks). It is especially irresponsible when not only are the changes which are supposed to offset the nerf and provide incentive to once again live in 0.0 sov space not ready for prime time, but there are no concrete ideas about what such a buff should entail, how it will be implemented or when, if at all, we will see the nullsec buff(s). "9 months" will likely get pushed closer to a year (at CCP's rate, 15 years before all the mechanics are implemented and function properly) where sovereign null security space will be less lucrative than highsec without having any concrete advantages of accomplishing the feat of motivating and organizing hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals to work towards a common goal.
Saying "we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will" is bullhit. It's saying "we have no plan to make sovereign 0.0 space a viable and desirable place to live, but we might think of something, sometime, maybe."
As for 0.0 being "stale" and not having "enough PvP," I'm going to once again call bull****. The largest war in EVE's history is currently playing out between the DRF & associated groups and the NC/CF/BFFs. On top of that, billions of isk worth of ships are killed every week in nearly every inhabited nullsec region. Anyone who can't find PvP simply isn't trying.
All in all, regardless of my opinion on this change, I get the feeling that CCP either has a master plan for the game which they will implement without any consideration of its actual effect on the player base, or they have no good plan and are willing to throw any half-assed idea onto TQ without proper vetting and testing and, once again, no consideration or understanding of its actual effect on the population in the affected areas. Either way, it is disheartening.
On top of that, there are dozens of pieces of unfinished business which ought to be higher on the priority list than tweaking nullsec logistics. Like taking care of that backlog of issues which remove all credibility of the "this winter" "9 months" and "soon" statements. Frankly, with CCP's track record of feature implementation, 0.0 grunt-level players in sov space have just been dealt a kick in the teeth, and there is no guarantee that any improvement will ever materialize. There is even less hope that any "improvement" will be functional on delivery, or within a reasonable time-frame of that delivery. In ur engineering, fixin' ur warp core. |
StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:32:00 -
[890]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
You boys ****ed that up when you speed nerfed.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:32:00 -
[891]
Originally by: Sovox You guys peaked just before Dominion and its been crap ever since then.
People have been screaming this for years now. CCP is 3 little monkies that hear no, see no, speak no evil.
**** em, stop feeding them with money and let them starve. Iceland doesn't need the money anyway.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:33:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
Space Barbies. AKA passing off World of Darkness development time as an important upgrade of the EVE experience.
Soundwave: still waiting on an answer as to why we can't delay this and evaluate it in the wider context of the proposed winter changes.
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Raivi
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:34:00 -
[893]
This is an excellent start, and I'm also very glad to hear that you are focusing on iterating other aspects of 0.0 in the coming months.
Don't worry about the naysayers, 0.0 survived fine before jump bridges, and it will survive fine with the occasional gate in between them. ---------------------------------------------
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Molly Roger
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:35:00 -
[894]
Quote: Originally by: Molly RogerI haz and idea. Before we encourage more and larger fleet fights...lets fix fleet fight lag!!!!
Yeah I went there. Had problems shooting at targets with 300 in system the other day, neither fleet was a drake blob either so we cant blame missiles.
U are lame, and your family doesn't know it :)
Yeah I know but someone should have said it.
Quote:
Quote:"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month."
Ok, then let me end my cyno whenever I want without waiting 10 minutes doing nothing.
It's called self destruct.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:36:00 -
[895]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
Incursions and little things.
So are we right to assume you dont want 'static' 0.0 entities? You want everyone to pew 24/7?
Do ANY of you actually play in 0.0 for any length of time greater than one hour? Do you have ANY idea how much effort it takes to run the infrastructure alliances have to run?
Dont fart around with 0.0 in little piddly patches your only going to muck things up even further. If you REALLY have to have a patch in a week give fighter bombers the DPS of a frig with 2 round of ammo.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:36:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Levarr Burton
bleh...Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist...bleh
Lowsec is the real light for us the true believers. The real path of getting really rich. The high-sec habitants don't want to risk his ISK there, the 0.0 habitants find stupid to live there. And meanwhile we still get the most part of the ISK in the game XD
The secret won't be revealed to you, as only true believers can find the path, but don't suffer for us. We are really well :)
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:37:00 -
[897]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Levarr Burton
bleh...Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist...bleh
Lowsec is the real light for us the true believers. The real path of getting really rich. The high-sec habitants don't want to risk his ISK there, the 0.0 habitants find stupid to live there. And meanwhile we still get the most part of the ISK in the game XD
The secret won't be revealed to you, as only true believers can find the path, but don't suffer for us. We are really well :)
The secret is Farming LP in faction war since nobody actually plays it anymore. Busted.
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Smoking Blunts
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:38:00 -
[898]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
Incursions and little things.
why are you not added all changes at once, so we can see your grand plan? as a nerf with no boost is a NERF
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:38:00 -
[899]
This thread grew 23 pages in the time it's taken me to read it, hehe. Good times.
While I don't think the changes have gone far enough (nerf cap ship jump ranges and jump clone timers please), it's a step in the right direction. Hell, keep going like this and I might even be tempted to re-sub.
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Indy Rider
Amarr Element 115. Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:39:00 -
[900]
Edited by: Indy Rider on 10/05/2011 23:39:40
Originally by: Svennig
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
Space Barbies. AKA passing off World of Darkness development time as an important upgrade of the EVE experience.
And in true CCP style, they'll release Dust on the 360 a month before the new xbox comes out.
I'm all for nullsec change, the problem is that its consistant nerfs to Grunts. With anom nerfs and the risk incereasing, its just going to make grunts think twice about spending the harder to get isk in 0.0 on crappy little gang pvp while also fighting in the big wars.
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|
Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:39:00 -
[901]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
Announce this 1 week before the winter patches then
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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:39:00 -
[902]
Edited by: Alice Katsuko on 10/05/2011 23:40:59
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Sister Bliss
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see. From there on, detailed designwork and implementation.
What the **** have you been doing for the past 18 months? No, I mean seriously.
Incursions and little things.
Is this where we learn that you spent 72,000 man-hours making slightly lighter icons for BPCs?
The complaint is not so much about the nerf to jump bridges, but that all we've seen so far are haphazard nerfs which make null-security space less desirable to live in. Aside from vague promises about making unspecified improvements to nullsec in the future, we've seen virtually no attempts at making life in nullsec better or easier. Even small changes such as decoupling jump bridge and POS passwords seems to be too much to ask.
Considering the terrible track record CCP has accumulated regarding fulfilling promises, I hope you understand that most of us would drink battery acid before trusting you to actually deliver on all that nice content like revamped starbases and improved sovereignty mechanics.
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:40:00 -
[903]
Originally by: Levarr Burton
Originally by: Weaselior
Could you comment on the reasoning behind nerfing 0.0 now, and then revamping it "later" rather than a coherent overall change that makes sense and addresses the region in a unified way - instead of this "make bad change, promise fix in six months", especially given CCP's extremely bad record on delivering things promised in advance.
Skipping a dozen or so pages here, but I would like to see this answered. CCP has, frankly, a horrible track record when it comes to feature iteration. FW is crap, PI was pushed out the door both behind schedule and under finished, the Dominion Sovereignty updates were never completely implemented, T3s haven't been fully implemented (lol still can't refit @ POS), Lowsec is still waiting for a reason to exist, Incarna has been on the way for at least 4 years, new ship skins started rolling out last year, and so far we have 5 that I'm aware of, POSes still suck, etc. Hearing "later" from CCP has a long history of meaning "we'll never get around to that."
Regardless of the concrete pros and cons surrounding the impending nerf, it is simply irresponsible to make such a drastic change so suddenly (not enough notice to even remap existing networks). It is especially irresponsible when not only are the changes which are supposed to offset the nerf and provide incentive to once again live in 0.0 sov space not ready for prime time, but there are no concrete ideas about what such a buff should entail, how it will be implemented or when, if at all, we will see the nullsec buff(s). "9 months" will likely get pushed closer to a year (at CCP's rate, 15 years before all the mechanics are implemented and function properly) where sovereign null security space will be less lucrative than highsec without having any concrete advantages of accomplishing the feat of motivating and organizing hundreds, if not thousands, of individuals to work towards a common goal.
Saying "we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will" is bullhit. It's saying "we have no plan to make sovereign 0.0 space a viable and desirable place to live, but we might think of something, sometime, maybe."
As for 0.0 being "stale" and not having "enough PvP," I'm going to once again call bull****. The largest war in EVE's history is currently playing out between the DRF & associated groups and the NC/CF/BFFs. On top of that, billions of isk worth of ships are killed every week in nearly every inhabited nullsec region. Anyone who can't find PvP simply isn't trying.
All in all, regardless of my opinion on this change, I get the feeling that CCP either has a master plan for the game which they will implement without any consideration of its actual effect on the player base, or they have no good plan and are willing to throw any half-assed idea onto TQ without proper vetting and testing and, once again, no consideration or understanding of its actual effect on the population in the affected areas. Either way, it is disheartening.
On top of that, there are dozens of pieces of unfinished business which ought to be higher on the priority list than tweaking nullsec logistics. Like taking care of that backlog of issues which remove all credibility of the "this winter" "9 months" and "soon" statements. Frankly, with CCP's track record of feature implementation, 0.0 grunt-level players in sov space have just been dealt a kick in the teeth, and there is no guarantee that any improvement will ever materialize. There is even less hope that any "improvement" will be functional on delivery, or within a reasonable time-frame of that delivery.
I can only assume they think it will cause conflict..... I remember reading that before, when was that?????? OH about 5 weeks ago!
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:41:00 -
[904]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:40:54
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
The secret is Farming LP in faction war since nobody actually plays it anymore. Busted.
I was being ironic as saying it "the secret". All the pleople know it. However, missioners don't want to come. And 0.0 think that's coward task (as all missioning tasks) and won't come. And about no one playing anymore, better for me. Don't you think?
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:42:00 -
[905]
Edited by: Cellistara on 10/05/2011 23:42:56 They obviously just don't want people in 0.0 to be able to plex accounts, the ratting nerf and increased risk will make actually earning isk less desirable so they make more money. Plus people will be forced to either add accounts to mission in highsec or buy gtcs to afford ships, even more money there.
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:43:00 -
[906]
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:40:54
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
The secret is Farming LP in faction war since nobody actually plays it anymore. Busted.
I was being ironic as saying it "the secret". All the pleople know it. However, missioners don't want to come. And 0.0 think that's coward task (as all missioning tasks) and won't come. And about no one playing anymore, better for me. Don't you think?
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the secret SHHHHHHHHHHHHH the secret means, we have no idea and we're gonna make it up as we go a long. but shhhhhhhhhhhhh lets make it sounds like a secret.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:43:00 -
[907]
Finally, great change CCP.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:44:00 -
[908]
Originally by: Cellistara They obviously just don't want people in 0.0 to be able to plex accounts, the ratting nerf and increased risk will make actually earning isk less desirable so they make more money.
If you really think they don't get money of the GTC's, you are plain stupid. I have stopped trolling only for this serious post. Now will continue :)
Have a good day.
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Molly Roger
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:44:00 -
[909]
Originally by: Cellistara They obviously just don't want people in 0.0 to be able to plex accounts, the ratting nerf and increased risk will make actually earning isk less desirable so they make more money.
2 months of eve is $30 US...60 day time code is $35 US. I would think they would encourage plexing accounts so that an extra $5 is made.
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:44:00 -
[910]
Great fncking Scott! The amount of whinage on this overdue fix of the borked JB design is simply disgraceful!
So the logis won¦t be able to haul alone anymore and must do a JUMP or two in-between, dear heavens what a catastrophe.
Adapt and learn to do Convoy OPs again, like in the good olden times before this whole jumping crappola got thrown into the sandbox.
I for one welcome our CCP Soundwave Overlord and wish to point to this post again:
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema From my april fools post to my corp:
Quote: Jump Bridges
Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.
Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or û by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor û at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.
To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second ôcharge upö timer added before your ship is being sent through.
Edit: The above was taken from an april fools post to my corp's forum, detailing changes that they'd never get.
The rationale for the above design is as follows: * It allows everyday logistics to be performed just as easily as today, if not easier. Simple ship movement no longer requires logistics people to constantly refuel the bridges * It slows down mass-fleet movement, with a mechanic that is understandable to players. * It allows smaller gangs to quickly move around with few if any limitations * It allows big fleets to move around, but slowly. * It still allows JB camping, provided that you camp the outgoing side, or dragbubble the POS.
______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:46:00 -
[911]
Originally by: StuRyan
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 10/05/2011 23:40:54
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
The secret is Farming LP in faction war since nobody actually plays it anymore. Busted.
I was being ironic as saying it "the secret". All the pleople know it. However, missioners don't want to come. And 0.0 think that's coward task (as all missioning tasks) and won't come. And about no one playing anymore, better for me. Don't you think?
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH the secret SHHHHHHHHHHHHH the secret means, we have no idea and we're gonna make it up as we go a long. but shhhhhhhhhhhhh lets make it sounds like a secret.
Every post I like more this thread.
XD
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Sieran
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:47:00 -
[912]
Once -again- it's: "Too bad about all the work you did. You have our apathy."
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:47:00 -
[913]
Originally by: StuRyan
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
You boys ****ed that up when you speed nerfed.
yet you're still subbed...they must be doing something right, eh?
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:49:00 -
[914]
Eve Online is not a sandbox. It's a huge ocean. There's always a larger fish than you :)
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captain foivos
|
Posted - 2011.05.10 23:49:00 -
[915]
Remember why they implemented jumpbridges? "Because convoy ops are long, boring, and no fun for anybody."
Now, apparently, convoy ops are all the rage.
Jesus Christ CCP you are all incredibly stupid. -- Need a break from EVE? |
Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:49:00 -
[916]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Cellistara They obviously just don't want people in 0.0 to be able to plex accounts, the ratting nerf and increased risk will make actually earning isk less desirable so they make more money.
If you really think they don't get money of the GTC's, you are plain stupid. I have stopped trolling only for this serious post. Now will continue :)
Have a good day.
Was talking about making enough isk in-game to buy plex on the market.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:49:00 -
[917]
So will the Winter expansion be appropriately named "Final Solution?"
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:50:00 -
[918]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 10/05/2011 23:51:25 Edited by: Feyleaf on 10/05/2011 23:50:30
Originally by: Giselle Garner Eve Online is not a sandbox. It's a huge ocean. There's always a larger fish than you :)
I want those fish to other players. Not bots or ccp. Radical changes like this in 7 days notice ruins the entire idea of ocean/sandbox whatever. Removes a large part of what hapnz in the eve universe from the hands of the players.
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stoicfaux
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:51:00 -
[919]
Quote: Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
<non-plussed> So CCP's plan is to make 0.0 logistics harder in phase 1, and then they'll try to answer the above questions in phase 3? </non-plussed>
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Machiavelli, and PvP"
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:51:00 -
[920]
Originally by: captain foivos Remember why they implemented jumpbridges? "Because convoy ops are long, boring, and no fun for anybody."
Now, apparently, convoy ops are all the rage.
Jesus Christ CCP you are all incredibly stupid.
The only people who have a boner about convoy ops are the people who will only ever shoot at them.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:52:00 -
[921]
Originally by: Cellistara
Was talking about making enough isk in-game to buy plex on the market.
Ah, right. OK, but then they won't PVP XD But all that ppl that we pay in RL money (even having 30B in the wallet).
That's good, to restrict all that haters of the humankind doing more PVE activities XD
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:53:00 -
[922]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak Adapt and learn to do Convoy OPs again, like in the good olden times before this whole jumping crappola got thrown into the sandbox.
If any amount of organised hostiles drop on your freighter, it WILL die, escort or not. Welcome to "Alpha".
Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:53:00 -
[923]
I like the idea if im honest i like the idea of jumping into one system then to use a gate to get to the next jump bridge.
I just don't agree with 1. the time frame, 2. The fact that every major change so far is f4cking up 0.0 rather making it more interesting and 3 deep space is gonna be a ***** to get too. I remember living so far out when Zydrine and Megacyte was worth the 2 hour long hauls.
caps to be ineligable to use Jbs ? hmmmm not sure .... surely that just means more cyno generator poses?
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Erick Odin
Amarr Local-Spike
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:54:00 -
[924]
Originally by: Kimsemus Thanks for taking away one of the few rewards for having a secure 0.0 empire, which we pay a lot of isk per month for.
CCP, I love you, but right now, I hate you.
I hate you so much.
If it's secure why are you terrified to use a gate?
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:54:00 -
[925]
Originally by: Feyleaf
I want those fish to other players. Not bots or ccp. Radical changes like this in 7 days notice ruins the entire idea of ocean/sandbox whatever. Removes a large part of what hapnz in the eve universe from the hands of the players.
It's an ocean. Are you a shark or a huge blue whale? ^^
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:54:00 -
[926]
Originally by: captain foivos Remember why they implemented jumpbridges? "Because convoy ops are long, boring, and no fun for anybody."
Now, apparently, convoy ops are all the rage.
Jesus Christ CCP you are all incredibly stupid.
Moran.
Those were convoys for 20-30 jumps through 0.0. Even from empire to deepest NC space we¦re talking 5-10 jumps now? If you can¦t manage that then you really belong with me in empire. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:56:00 -
[927]
Originally by: Sieran Once -again- it's: "Too bad about all the work you did. You have our apathy."
sup bro, dont read the EULA much, do you? In case you havent, i'll post the important, pertinent part for u.
Originally by: End User License Agreement E. New Releases of the Software
...CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you....
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:56:00 -
[928]
CCP please listen carefully
FIX BUGS and STAY THE **** OUT OF NULL
Seriously YOU ****wagons can't seem to get it can you. Are you trying to lower your playerbase .....
From now on i am NOT paying with a sub .. from now on i will be using isk to buy plex .. I have allways felt that you guys deserved to get some real money ... but ya know what ..... now its time for me to nerf the sub.
OH and i will be using your boken PI to pay for those PLEX ... IN HIGH SEC
what dumba$$ery
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Viktoria Potsfel
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:56:00 -
[929]
Edited by: Viktoria Potsfel on 10/05/2011 23:56:32
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Feyleaf
I want those fish to other players. Not bots or ccp. Radical changes like this in 7 days notice ruins the entire idea of ocean/sandbox whatever. Removes a large part of what hapnz in the eve universe from the hands of the players.
It's an ocean. Are you a shark or a huge blue whale? ^^
and you were captain of your highschool debating team?
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Caidos
Psykotic Meat C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:56:00 -
[930]
LOL at all the 0.0 carebear tears!
Seriously, if this change makes you sad then you don't belong in 0.0. Learn to adapt, or pack up and go home. The nearest warm fuzzy high sec mission hub is that way --->
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:56:00 -
[931]
Edited by: StuRyan on 10/05/2011 23:56:56
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: StuRyan
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
You boys ****ed that up when you speed nerfed.
yet you're still subbed...they must be doing something right, eh?
I spent the better half of a year training the right skills to be able to taste that, i eventually had the skills and it came in, thats why im bitter. Im still subbed becuase i adapted to still being able to pvp - the speed nerfed boosted solo pvp you cant get that now - thats another argument and one that always ends up with some c4nt telling you to go play wow.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:57:00 -
[932]
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
not empty quoting
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MajorScrewup
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:57:00 -
[933]
Ssshhh, CCP need everyone who didn't unsub; because of the way their devs who no longer play their game were ruining it; to have another account for scouting to make them more money.
This is why they have to rush it out in seven days, as they don't want to wait till the winter to take your money.
Leave CCP alone, they need fancy stuff and kickboxing girlfriends in IRL too !!!
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Smoking Blunts
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:57:00 -
[934]
Originally by: Svennig
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
not empty quoting
this
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Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:58:00 -
[935]
Edited by: Sister Bliss on 11/05/2011 00:07:27
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Incursions and little things.
Exactly, with the exception of investment into performance fixes, there appears little to no advancement or development of the core sandbox tools and universe mechanics. What has been delivered in the years since Apocrypha is literally 'side content'.
I have nothing against incursions or PI or all that stuff, but it is not what keeps everyone logging in day-to-day. The CCP quest for more and more immersion is a noble vision but I can't help but feel you are over-reaching for the end-goal and have lost track of why your customers play this game.
Unless you rectify that situation all we will be immersed in is a broken and useless bag of ****.
I even went to the effort of filing a petition to enquire about the Technetium issue and point out that the outcome of the passive income balance actually entirely contradicted your stated desired outcomes. I was told the design was working as intended and if I wanted to discuss it further I should post it on a forum somewhere for someone to notice.
But back on topic, don't get me wrong, I approve the JB change. My disappointment is how ponderous and inert the game design team at CCP has become when it cannot rapidly address and rectify issues or has prioritised its work stack so poorly that winter will be the start of addressing and designing for 0.0 issues.
What exactly have you done in the past 18 months again?
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:58:00 -
[936]
Originally by: Phigmeta
From now on i am NOT paying with a sub .. from now on i will be using isk to buy plex .. I have allways felt that you guys deserved to get some real money ... but ya know what ..... now its time for me to nerf the sub.
Ordinarily I'd ignore a post this stupid but you're the second person on this page alone who doesn't understand how PLEX work, the first guy even managed to spread his stupidity to the people trying to correct him. That PLEX you're buying with isk, someone paid real money for it. Sure, its not your money, but don't kid yourself CCP aren't getting paid for your game time.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:58:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Viktoria Potsfel
and you were captain of your highschool debating team?
Of course. And I was good. I got whisky and *****es that evening :)
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:59:00 -
[938]
Originally by: Smoking Blunts
Originally by: Svennig
Originally by: WisdomPanda
Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
not empty quoting
this
this^
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ssgt slaughter
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Posted - 2011.05.10 23:59:00 -
[939]
what the fck has ccp gone off its nut? stop fcking with the game and fix the mess you have already made. cloaked ships are impossible to find and nearly impossible to catch and you dont fck with them. i can think of umptine other things you could change but you head right to null sec on the hells of several null sec nerfs. is ccp intentionally trying to get players to leave the game? many players have already left or are in the process of leaving the game because of ccps meddling with game mechanics to the point it has become extremely consticting to player stability. stop fckign and start fixing the multitude of bugs you have created. seems the only easy isk to be made in this game is either by scamming in jita or pirating in lowsec now days. what a shame that it has coem to this from what this game once was.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:00:00 -
[940]
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: captain foivos Remember why they implemented jumpbridges? "Because convoy ops are long, boring, and no fun for anybody."
Now, apparently, convoy ops are all the rage.
Jesus Christ CCP you are all incredibly stupid.
Moran.
Those were convoys for 20-30 jumps through 0.0. Even from empire to deepest NC space we¦re talking 5-10 jumps now? If you can¦t manage that then you really belong with me in empire.
Have you ever travelled further than 5 jumps in anything large that a BS? And If you look at some areas its a bit more than 5-10 jumps this route for example
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Rothana Haldane
Minmatar Multiplex Gaming SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:00:00 -
[941]
Wow CCP. What you are forcing us to do is run missions all day in High sec? Not what I came out here for. First you destroy one of the few means for non indies to make money in o.o space, now you want to limit our routes and make it longer and more dificult to move around. What you are going to create is a series of blob gate camps all over the place. and people staying in one specific spot for the rest of thier game time You are more and more making this into Startrek online or Warcraft. Just sit there mashing buttons. Thank you very much.
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Sieran
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:00:00 -
[942]
I could point out that billions are lost on JBs - in fact some of the best kills happen that way. Gate camps are sorta fun I guess. If it's really valuable - it's being moved in a T3. Good luck there - they're not uncatchable I guess... but basically they are. If it's really big - now it'll just be escorted and heavilly scouted. Or it won't go until the route is clear.
Big alliances will adapt. Little guys with 2 JBs to their name will actually still be sorta OK. Billions of people's ISK and thousands of hours of PVP, hauling and PVE that's gone into settling the systems in question will go down the toilet.
Uh. Nice work?
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Balthamel Eval'Raman
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:01:00 -
[943]
Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
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Viktoria Potsfel
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:02:00 -
[944]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Viktoria Potsfel
and you were captain of your highschool debating team?
Of course. And I was good. I got whisky and *****es that evening :)
But you just playing right.. you are not actually unable to understand the meaning of other people's words?
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Shiroi Okami
Gallente Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:04:00 -
[945]
Oh the glorious NC tears ITT
CCP you just made my day ------
My latest pvp video - Freestyle |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:04:00 -
[946]
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:05:00 -
[947]
Originally by: Viktoria Potsfel
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Viktoria Potsfel
and you were captain of your highschool debating team?
Of course. And I was good. I got whisky and *****es that evening :)
But you just playing right.. you are not actually unable to understand the meaning of other people's words?
I understand what others say. I only troll in both sides to help getting mature position in both sides. What I say in one post is not matter of importance. What i say after 100 posts is important. Not for me, for the stupid of CCP and CSM that read all (or the most part) of the posts.
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:05:00 -
[948]
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
This whole thread is a GREAT reason.
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:06:00 -
[949]
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
They wanted to get this one in during the summer becuase by the winter the jbs are frozen and can not be unachored cold weather.
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Fix Lag
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:06:00 -
[950]
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
DID I MENTION SUPERCAPS?
ALSO, SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
TECHNETIUM/MOONGOO DISTRIBUTION
SUPERCAPS
And despite it being in huge letters right in front of your face, you will be unable to get it into your heads that perhaps those need adjustment, much more so than jumpbridges, and so we will be stuck with your wonderful idea of sovereignty that is Dominion until you decide to screw things up some more in the winter.
Fix Lag! |
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Aria Omnipota
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:07:00 -
[951]
Originally by: Valfreyea To prevent logistics teams from killing themselves? They're going to kill themselves when they find out that they'll have to remap the JBs again.
As the main logistics person for my alliance, I won't even bother doing this ****, the first nerf was bad enough, now that I'd have to spend 2 weeks+ remapping the JB AND costing the alliance more money in the ******ed JB upgrade for the IHUB. This is the stupidest load of bull I've ever read. CCP are completely out of touch with their own game, they basically want 0.0 to be lowsec and have been working steadily since the start of this year to make that a reality. Lowsec is already dead, why they'd want more space to resemble it means that they don't have a clue what happens in EvE. It was fun, but then again most games die after 8-10 years so this is the beginning of the end. When DUST goes live CCP will look back and wonder where their EVE playerbase went and DUST will have to be completely separated from EVE as the only players left will be bots. Good job CCP, enjoy your company failing for not listening to your customers.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:07:00 -
[952]
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
This whole thread is a GREAT reason.
Might I refer you to my earlier comment about Patty Patrick Patterson's mother and her unfortunate alcoholism.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:07:00 -
[953]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 00:08:17 They will do whatever they want. I only want they get a headache. The best way to get rich in a MMORPG is getting the things static and finding out the best way to get wealth. As I know I won't get they don't do any changes, at least will make they have headache XD
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:08:00 -
[954]
You NS carebears STFU already, this is an amayzing change FOR THE GAME.
Nullsec is safer then highsec, its just boring, this should neaver happen again.
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Viktor Resnov
Vorkuta Inc
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:08:00 -
[955]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
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Pheleus
Habitual Euthanasia
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:09:00 -
[956]
Originally by: Fix Lag SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
DID I MENTION SUPERCAPS?
ALSO, SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
SUPERCAPS
TECHNETIUM/MOONGOO DISTRIBUTION
SUPERCAPS
And despite it being in huge letters right in front of your face, you will be unable to get it into your heads that perhaps those need adjustment, much more so than jumpbridges, and so we will be stuck with your wonderful idea of sovereignty that is Dominion until you decide to screw things up some more in the winter.
Whats the problem with supercaps?? JB nerf and tech nerf would remove a **** load of supers through natural attrition resulting is removing 8 of your problems right??
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:09:00 -
[957]
Edited by: WisdomPanda on 11/05/2011 00:09:56
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
This whole thread is a GREAT reason.
I'd imagine for you it is.
Small minds being easily amused and all.
http://www-01.ibm.com/software/ucd/designconcepts/designbasics.html ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:10:00 -
[958]
We sell it for free!
2 supercaps at price of 1!
We give it as a GIFT!
Go!Go!Go!
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Viktoria Potsfel
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:10:00 -
[959]
No exuses for making these changes in less then a month!
and: Supercapslol loldreads staticlolmoons t2bpolol lolsec
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ItsmeHcK1
Lucifer's Hammer
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:10:00 -
[960]
Originally by: Illectroculus Defined These represent a reasonable first step, although I'd also like to see jump freighters permitted to use Jump bridges too. My feeling is the jump bridges should primarily be tools for easing logistics, rather than a shortcut to head your enemies off at the pass.
I'd really like to see jump bridges visible on the system overview, and anchored on their own, away from the security of POS guns so that they're much more like stargates. For bonus points, make em easy to knock and undefended bridge offline (but hard to destroy) so that they're only really usable in well defended systems.
This man speaketh the truth. Heed his words.
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:10:00 -
[961]
we regret to inform you that this years winter package is a secret but to let you in on it we're gonna make it so that each system has 1 asteriod belt. We forsee this will cause some initial conflict but it is all in line with our long term vision of moving you all back to empire.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:10:00 -
[962]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
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Kaelea Selene
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:11:00 -
[963]
i think CCP are making the game poor by changing things in 0.0 it seems all these changers only make the PvP players happy and thats all for a good % its just more nerfs and nerfs to things .
Rather than take things out of the game and away from people CCP should be making new content moving forward in a postive way not more ****ty nerfs.
CSM is a total load of horse crap the changes are not that good unless you PVP then its sun shine all the way.
CCP always thinking pro PVP and nothing else
bah have your troll now iam done with this topic
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:11:00 -
[964]
Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 11/05/2011 00:16:02 Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 11/05/2011 00:12:18 This can be adapted to, CCP - but while you're at it, make the change all the sweeter and double the usable range on JBs as well if they're going to be "closed circuit."
Another idea: Allow JBs in range of Empire to "target" friendly cynos for one-way empire jumps - this would make it MUCH easier for smaller alliances to at least get OUT of 0.0 without having to negotiate through chokepointed exit/entrance systems.
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Nef'arious
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:12:00 -
[965]
Originally by: Kaelea Selene CCP always thinking pro PVP and nothing else
you are dumb, have you seen the last 10 expansions the great percent are empire/carebear perks
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:13:00 -
[966]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
Still not headache!? WTF!? U need to re-read the posts. Then you will get my point XD
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Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:13:00 -
[967]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased.
To clarify, CSM has been presented with some high-level "principles, rules and guidelines" that any nullsec iteration should adhere to, and they seem reasonable -- in fact, I would encourage CCP to publish them in a devblog ASAP for discussion.
However, this presentation does not include any details -- even on the most global level -- on how these guidelines will actually be achieved. We look forward to seeing those, because as we all know, the is in the details.
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Fiona Laphroaig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:13:00 -
[968]
CCP do you guys actually consider the people that pay your fk'n salaries when you come up with these ill concieved, ill advised "changes". Jesus h christ, do you guys just spend your days whacked the f'k out on Ex, K-, MdMa, Coke etc. co-sigining on each others horrible ideas?
Leave it alonE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Douche bag!
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:14:00 -
[969]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
TL;DR I dont know, we just think it will cause conflict.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:15:00 -
[970]
Originally by: Kaelea Selene i think CCP are making the game poor by changing things in 0.0 it seems all these changers only make the PvP players happy and thats all for a good % its just more nerfs and nerfs to things .
Rather than take things out of the game and away from people CCP should be making new content moving forward in a postive way not more ****ty nerfs.
CSM is a total load of horse crap the changes are not that good unless you PVP then its sun shine all the way.
CCP always thinking pro PVP and nothing else
bah have your troll now iam done with this topic
0.0 should always be pvp oriented, if you want to do carebear stuff with safety, go to highsec.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:15:00 -
[971]
Originally by: Nef'arious
Originally by: Kaelea Selene CCP always thinking pro PVP and nothing else
you are dumb, have you seen the last 10 expansions the great percent are empire/carebear perks
OFC, CCP has a button that they press and see in every moment the amount of actual carebears in the game. As i has said a long time ago, the drugs have done a lot of damage to our young people XD
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GKO
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:15:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
- because of falcon? - excellence blabla? - we are delivering small patches to avoid mistakes (see our last perfect patches)? - some sandcastles have to be build without huge discussions as in playerbase/ CSM (why do they still exist?) - we will deliver the 0.0 buff soon (tm), don't worry? - JBs always were a temporary solution as we are trying to get the old cyno effect back? - HTFU? - Unexpected low sec buff because of .... ? - m÷÷÷÷h? - this patch is required for the long expected hybrid buff? - stop crashing our servers with your ridiculous fleet fights? - stop the guristas JB scam now or we will actually deliver this patch?
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Jonathan Malcom
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:15:00 -
[973]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
I would actually like to take issue with this, if I may be so bold.
From my perspective, it depends on whether you're looking to make a game, or if you're looking to make something real (i.e. Eve is Real, et cetera).
Manipulating game mechanics in order to induce a particular response from players (in addition to being something at which CCP has proven themselves to be less that adept), while possibly having the desired effect, is, at the most basic level, artificial. A game.
It seems to go against everything that Eve is supposed to be about: freedom.
Players have been provided the tools to build what are essentially miniature virtual civilizations, replete with governments, laws and citizenship.
Null-sec, from what I understand (and I would love to be proven wrong, if I am) is not supposed to be dangerous, necessarily. It's supposed to be conquered. It is whatever the players that own it choose for it to be.
This seems a concerted effort on CCP's part to ham-handedly dismantle these emergent civilizations and return to the "wild-west" days of null-sec colonization.
If doing so is better for the game, that is fine, but I (and I'm sure many others) would appreciate some explication as to why that is the case.
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Kalan'mar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:15:00 -
[974]
I fully support removing JB's go CCP!!!
Sabre camping here I come.
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Bloodhands
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:16:00 -
[975]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
So wait, pvp shouldn't be fair, but your opponent shouldn't have any advantage that you can't have yourself. Gotcha. As a long time logistics guy in null sec, the changes seem perfectly feasible and sensible. However, if you remove the negative security space Super Highways then you should also do the same for the high security space Super Highways that were brought out around the same time as Jump Portals. Remove the trade routes from Jita, Amarr, Rens and Dodixie, Hek and Oursulaert that were put in place to shorten the 15+ jump distances from each of the major trade hubs.
I do have a real question about the timing of the changes. Are you, CCP Soundwave, or any of your colleagues in CCP currently, or in the foreseeable future in the pocket of any of the power players in the Eve Online political landscape? The extremely sudden change to take place 7 days after the arguably most difficult region in Eve to take is besieged seems suspect. The change of no capitals being able to jump threw bridges being introduced now of all times makes it seem that CCP is specifically attempting to interfere with a war for sovereignty.
If you are planing on introducing a massive game changing feature, isn't it normally more common to give 30+ day notice to avoid being seen to have a hand in the political pie as it were? Especially when it is part of a series changes where the rest scheduled to possibly be released for another 3 years?
Quote: ... WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014...
If this is not a politically or monetarily driven change, what would be the harm in pushing back the release date of Phase One until say 13 June, 2011 (34 days) and Phase Two until four weeks after?
______________________
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Jack Tronic
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:17:00 -
[976]
Originally by: Levarr Burton
As for 0.0 being "stale" and not having "enough PvP," I'm going to once again call bull****. The largest war in EVE's history is currently playing out between the DRF & associated groups and the NC/CF/BFFs. On top of that, billions of isk worth of ships are killed every week in nearly every inhabited nullsec region. Anyone who can't find PvP simply isn't trying.
The thing is, people are whining about no PvP because they can't find easy carebear/riskless ganks or 1v1s. They are trying to force their to be free kills and solo roaming when clearly people want to roam in gangs instead, people blob cause they want to fight and be done with it. But of course like religion, their view of PvP must be forced on everyone.
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Sovox
Amarr Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:17:00 -
[977]
After reading some of the replies and how they fall along the political lines. Its Obvious that CCP is catering to one style of game play which are the poster children of failed Contraception,cheap booze and a hooker.
Everyone else gets screwed i guess.
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Lord's Servant
Amarr Total Mayhem. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:18:00 -
[978]
Originally by: Vuk Lau This is ****ing ******ed but nothing else to be expected from 0.0 dev team who wants to limit force projection by raping industrialist and common John 0.0 Doe with this change.
.....
Before usual trolls emerge, I need to point my alliance will be the least affected with this cause we have small territorial footprint and we live 10j from Jita and 3j from highsec. Also cynojammers are not any protection for long time.......
1. Industrialists and carebears only belong in 0.0 as renters(duh). Renters should rent from a solid pvp alliance, who should be able to protect them should any major issues come up. This is both a boost to small gang pvp, and a minor nerf to cynojammers/turtling. Nothing more, nothing less.
2. Force projection has almost nothing to do with jump bridges. Force projection comes almost entirely atm through titans(jump bridge) and capitals(jump range). If you don't realize that I suggest you relearn eve or take a good look at the forces arrayed against you and how we somehow manage to beat you guys every time without sov+JBs.
3. Of course you guys won't be affected by it, you won't have any space left to put jump bridges in silly. I'm sure if/when the individual corps come back to rent it won't be that much of an issue.
4. Cynojammers offer no protection when you don't bother defending. If you mass caps/supers on a cynojammer in a jammed system, you will be able to hold off almost infinitely greater numbers with relative ease. Although, with that comes the risk of *gasp* losing aforementioned supers/caps.
-Lord's Servant -Lord's Servant |
Shepard Book
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:18:00 -
[979]
remove local already...
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Gevlin
Minmatar EXPCS Corp SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:18:00 -
[980]
While my original opinion has been changed from reading this thread and now believe this change is beneficial, I still have 1 issue:
- Please consider the time required to change sovereignty between alliances As the reworking of jump bridges in Smaller alliances need to negotiating with other alliance to form a proper Network chain.
One Personal fun Request: Can There be a phasing out of the Old jump bridges for new ones. Ie old Jumpbridges can stay but once destroyed or Moved they have to be replaced with the new Upgraded models with the larger capacity and location limitation?
It would make warfare interesting over the next while. (One day there will be the Epic battle as the last ôAncient Jump Bridgeö Is Destroyed.) And give the null sec players a sense of control over the changes soon to come. here we go again! |
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ivar R'dhak
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:20:00 -
[981]
Originally by: Rainus Max
Originally by: ivar R'dhak
Originally by: captain foivos Remember why they implemented jumpbridges? "Because convoy ops are long, boring, and no fun for anybody."
Now, apparently, convoy ops are all the rage.
Jesus Christ CCP you are all incredibly stupid.
Moran.
Those were convoys for 20-30 jumps through 0.0. Even from empire to deepest NC space we¦re talking 5-10 jumps now? If you can¦t manage that then you really belong with me in empire.
Have you ever travelled further than 5 jumps in anything large that a BS? And If you look at some areas its a bit more than 5-10 jumps this route for example
So what? Looks like you¦re having to do proper scout or Convoy for that long Treck anyway. I fail to see how the current Nerf makes that totally impossible.
Looks like you haven¦t traveled more than 5 jumps outside your cozy JB network. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦ |
StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:20:00 -
[982]
for caps use extra cyno gens for sub-cap ships use an alt to scout you through gates.
not a massive nerf - i would have been more concerned if it was a full scale removal of jbs = however, is this the first of a three stage nerf? 1. lets remove a bit 2. lets remove a bit more 3. lets remove a bit more of the bit more GONE!
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Recon Rahl
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:22:00 -
[983]
While I won't attack this idea with the same ferocity that SGT SAUGHTER did, I must side with him. All it takes to shut down an entire fleet of industrial players is one cloakie sitting AFK in system. I can understand the need to make cloakies difficult to find, but impossible? Really?
I am still a little new to NULL myself, but it seems like CCP has been tipping the scales in favor of one or two alliances. If you want to increase PvP activity why not make combat more skill related, and by that I don't mean SkillPoint related. Even the transversial approach is too simplified. A real PvP game allows even a noob to face a seasoned opponent with some chance of victory. In EVE that couldn't be any farther from the truth. The only way a seasoned player is going to be shot down by a noob is by the seasoned player making an a$$-hat-of-a-mistake.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:22:00 -
[984]
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
(...) Null-sec, from what I understand (and I would love to be proven wrong, if I am) is not supposed to be dangerous, necessarily. It's supposed to be conquered. It is whatever the players that own it choose for it to be. (...)
This is so wrong!.!.!.! Nullsec is a big war zone, with no rules, not boring carebear safeheavens.
This is the main problem, carebears think nullsec should be like highsec, amayzing...
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:23:00 -
[985]
Oh wait was this the "Happy 8 year bithday" surprise?
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Im Super Gay
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:25:00 -
[986]
Originally by: Lord's Servant
1. Industrialists and carebears only belong in 0.0 as renters(duh). Renters should rent from a solid pvp alliance, who should be able to protect them should any major issues come up. This is both a boost to small gang pvp, and a minor nerf to cynojammers/turtling. Nothing more, nothing less.
Because there's nothing more boring than mining than watching people mine...
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krewgin
Guerillas Of The Underground Opprimo Vox
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:25:00 -
[987]
after reading the dev blog for this topic, that I will have some accounts for sale as living in 0.0 is going to be nerfed so bad that it wont be worth fighting for or living in.
thanks for messing up our game!
WTG CCP
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Rothana Haldane
Minmatar Multiplex Gaming SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:25:00 -
[988]
Originally by: Bloodhands
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I do have a real question about the timing of the changes. Are you, CCP Soundwave, or any of your colleagues in CCP currently, or in the foreseeable future in the pocket of any of the power players in the Eve Online political landscape? The extremely sudden change to take place 7 days after the arguably most difficult region in Eve to take is besieged seems suspect. The change of no capitals being able to jump threw bridges being introduced now of all times makes it seem that CCP is specifically attempting to interfere with a war for sovereignty.
If you are planing on introducing a massive game changing feature, isn't it normally more common to give 30+ day notice to avoid being seen to have a hand in the political pie as it were? Especially when it is part of a series changes where the rest scheduled to possibly be released for another 3 years?
Quote: ... WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014...
If this is not a politically or monetarily driven change, what would be the harm in pushing back the release date of Phase One until say 13 June, 2011 (34 days) and Phase Two until four weeks after?
Makes you wonder how much money that russian is paying so he can control the game huh....anyways...agreed, the timing really does suck in a big way especially with whats going on up North. (CCP...one letter off from CCCP, conspiracy theorist will love this one)
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:27:00 -
[989]
Phahaha look at all those NC crybabies.
God forbid ppl using gates...
Love the changes but don't cave now CCP remove the JBs :)
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:27:00 -
[990]
Thanks CCP. Nice update you've given us here, with such great notice that we were able to change up our jumpbridge networks in time and reroute everything with no problem.
I hate you. I actually hate you at this particular moment. For the last two and a half years, you have completely failed to deliver any meaningful and fun content. I could elaborate on this, but I'd run out of characters first.
So...anyone got the number for that guy at Massively? Signature locked and removed. Zymurgist |
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:27:00 -
[991]
Edited by: WisdomPanda on 11/05/2011 00:28:14
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
Try not to take any of this personally, but you have to understand how utterly silly this seems.
There is no logical reason not to wait, you even just said as much, which should also prove our point; it would be better launched with other features to support this change. It would be so much better to get this as a package, to be ready for and be able to prepare. As opposed to getting it suddenly and dubiously dropped on our heads out of no where.
What worries me the most, above anything else, is that you are doing this as a knee jerk reaction (backed up by the time frame you've displayed) instead of thinking this through fully and resolving that it should come with other changes to make it a fully rounded package.
We all want nullsec changes, even if it means it being less secure (although how much will be of some debate, imo this will be far more annoying than it is less secure), but dropping changes on your subscription base with a weeks notice is bad, on so many levels. Hell, do this with some real, quality changes (scap/moon rebalance/stuff) and you'll probably have most of nullsec giving you a NC style BFF orgy.
It's only awkward the first time. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:27:00 -
[992]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
I CALL BULLS***. the problem is the 7 day notice and not the nerf as such. Im sure you knew this? still waiting for Feyleaf's question to be adressed!
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:28:00 -
[993]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
If you anticipate the player reaction being the same even if a jumpbridge nerf was sweetened with quality of life increases (doubtful), and you agree that the entire of 0.0 needs a rethink why push this change at all? Was it really so urgent?
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 00:28:00 -
[994]
Originally by: Bloodhands
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I do have a real question about the timing of the changes. Are you, CCP Soundwave, or any of your colleagues in CCP currently, or in the foreseeable future in the pocket of any of the power players in the Eve Online political landscape? The extremely sudden change to take place 7 days after the arguably most difficult region in Eve to take is besieged seems suspect. The change of no capitals being able to jump threw bridges being introduced now of all times makes it seem that CCP is specifically attempting to interfere with a war for sovereignty.
If you are planing on introducing a massive game changing feature, isn't it normally more common to give 30+ day notice to avoid being seen to have a hand in the political pie as it were? Especially when it is part of a series changes where the rest scheduled to possibly be released for another 3 years?
Quote: ... WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014...
If this is not a politically or monetarily driven change, what would be the harm in pushing back the release date of Phase One until say 13 June, 2011 (34 days) and Phase Two until four weeks after?
That is the key right there .... ya got to wonder if they get paid enough or has the lure of RMT provided payouts just to much for them to turn away.
ANd as if the timing could not be more perfect and NCdot failure points out EXACTLY why CCP wants to do this ... and why so sudden.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:29:00 -
[995]
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
If you anticipate the player reaction being the same even if a jumpbridge nerf was sweetened with quality of life increases (doubtful), and you agree that the entire of 0.0 needs a rethink why push this change at all? Was it really so urgent?
Yes, its urgent, nullsec is safer then highsec.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:30:00 -
[996]
Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
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reccos
Multiplex Gaming
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:31:00 -
[997]
Originally by: Lord's Servant
1. Industrialists and carebears only belong in 0.0 as renters(duh). Renters should rent from a solid pvp alliance, who should be able to protect them should any major issues come up. This is both a boost to small gang pvp, and a minor nerf to cynojammers/turtling. Nothing more, nothing less.
Who really wants to pay for these crappy systems now with the last nerf?? Isnt that why the russian alliances lost like 30 alliances of renters? Because the systems became poo?
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StuRyan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:31:00 -
[998]
HMMMM IM STILL THINKING CYNO GEN?
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:31:00 -
[999]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
Cry more carebear. EvE more alive then ever, this change prove it.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:31:00 -
[1000]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Jonathan Malcom
(...) Null-sec, from what I understand (and I would love to be proven wrong, if I am) is not supposed to be dangerous, necessarily. It's supposed to be conquered. It is whatever the players that own it choose for it to be. (...)
This is so wrong!.!.!.! Nullsec is a big war zone, with no rules, not boring carebear safeheavens.
This is the main problem, carebears think nullsec should be like highsec, amayzing...
Some ppl thinks that null-sec should be risk vs. reward, so should be the biggest reward as they are biggest risk. Some ppl thinks that null-sec it's a constant fight. Some ppl get out of null-sec. Some ppl get in null-sec. The ppl that get out of null-sec have more money, but they don't need to buy anything. The ppl that get in null-sec wait for other people (maybe other ppl that live in null-sec) searching for a kill (or a lot of kills, not probable as the null-sec population goes down), but don't have a lot of money to buy "nice toys" in empire. The market goes down with all this stated above. The game die. I am the chief of all the Eve XD
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:34:00 -
[1001]
Originally by: Jack Tronic
Originally by: Levarr Burton
As for 0.0 being "stale" and not having "enough PvP," I'm going to once again call bull****. The largest war in EVE's history is currently playing out between the DRF & associated groups and the NC/CF/BFFs. On top of that, billions of isk worth of ships are killed every week in nearly every inhabited nullsec region. Anyone who can't find PvP simply isn't trying.
The thing is, people are whining about no PvP because they can't find easy carebear/riskless ganks or 1v1s. They are trying to force their to be free kills and solo roaming when clearly people want to roam in gangs instead, people blob cause they want to fight and be done with it. But of course like religion, their view of PvP must be forced on everyone.
Eve is all about forcing you bs on others.. i just thing ccp should take a less active part in actual player driven bs.
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Cinosan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:35:00 -
[1002]
That's it CCP. Screw up 0.0 logistics completely. Then you can wonder why a lot of players can't afford to buy ships to PVP in. Amazing.. But why listen to us? It's your game. Oh wait, we pay to play this don't we? Maybe if enough drop you'll wake up and fix the things that need fixing instead of inventing new ways to screw up the game.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:37:00 -
[1003]
1 cancelled account = 1 vote
most of us can live with only 2 accounts right?
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:37:00 -
[1004]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
Cry more carebear. EvE more alive then ever, this change prove it.
The only thing alive and well is the RMT trade. Tell me, who is going to buy all those supercaps on ebay when there aren't any humans left in eve?
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:39:00 -
[1005]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 00:39:48 There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses. This is another part of the game and content that other people are creating, so make the most of it and enjoy it.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:40:00 -
[1006]
Originally by: Dodgy Past There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses.
This is massive world changes with 7 days notice.. created not by the players, eve is getting too random for long term projects imo.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:40:00 -
[1007]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
Cry more carebear. EvE more alive then ever, this change prove it.
The only thing alive and well is the RMT trade. Tell me, who is going to buy all those supercaps on ebay when there aren't any humans left in eve?
You clearly have all the symptoms of a glue sniffer.
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Sandwich PvP
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:42:00 -
[1008]
Typical CCP, screw things up worse, rather than work on playability. It's not bad enough that any op requires hours to setup and execute, now you want to nerf JB's, and clearly have in mind further nerfs. Stop with the nerfing! Your going to nerf your game out of existance. Why not try something new, like a game enhancement...
Instead of "nerfing" try enhancing, adding more risk and more reward, rather than making it impossible for people to play. Like the JB Nerf. Try something different, make it susceptible to Black ops pilots...Black ops can bridge or jump to any Jump Bridge, neut/enemy included...give them a 30 sec window before the pos can lock them.... This allows Blackops to jump into your party, or simply use your network to move around, with the possibility of mayhem on either side, depending on what ships you have. This means you need serious scouting, and perhaps escorts thru some systems. This makes JB still useful, but not much safer than flying gate to gate.
I've already left 0.0 for the time being, due to the absurd time involved in any operation. I simply don't have that kind of time to spare.... If you continue to nerf 0.0 your going to drive every single semi-casual gamer out of the game, cause high-sec is too boring for any gamer to stand for long. Sort by what? |
Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:43:00 -
[1009]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements.
This comes off as "Improvements will come later, and this will be a problem later anyways, so we're going to make this a problem now, and deal with your concerns later. (when the improvements come in)"
Are you trying to release every bad idea you have early so when the winter comes around you can have an expansion with mostly good ideas to champion? It seems that you are trying to make it so rather than 85+% of the ideas getting rejected by 95% of the people they're targeted to, have the "actual" expansion be full of good ideas while making the game worse slowly over the yer until it, but pretending they aren't linked?
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:45:00 -
[1010]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
Cry more carebear. EvE more alive then ever, this change prove it.
The only thing alive and well is the RMT trade. Tell me, who is going to buy all those supercaps on ebay when there aren't any humans left in eve?
You clearly have all the symptoms of a glue sniffer.
Elmer's White Baby
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shado20
EXTERMINATUS. Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:45:00 -
[1011]
Good job players, you have come together in unity and the use of Intel channels are grate. You inform each other very well and interact with fellow comrades too well, now we need to make it more impossible to live in 0.0 ...
1 jb per system-- WTF! small, med & large warp disruption bubbles sales are going to EXPLOAD! also, you now need 2x as many i-hubs with sov and 2x as many freighter runs with the JB upgrade to keep using the system you now have. 30k fuel bay in JB-- why, thereÆs not much need to use them as much anymore! if your smart. jumpdrive ships cant use JBs anymore-- o like that was a major big deal, now its even more impossible to defend your cyno jammed systems. and screw your home field advantage when defending your space.
as for your long term plans. Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? -- no, with all the afk cloaky guys in the mining and industry spots, its impossible to work. Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough? -- no, remember risk vs reward! Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals? lol are you kidding me, if you like supper caps online, than yes Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov? well now that you have made owning space less secure, you tell me! Are we happy with movement/player interaction? Your never happy.
whats next, you take away our intell channles.. lol
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Dro Nee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:45:00 -
[1012]
Holy Crap this thread is total deja vu.... I SWEAR read this exact same thread circa 2007.
*0.0 logistics will be a total nightmare!!111*.check *CCP is ruining all the fun!!!111* ............check *The economy will totally crumble!!11* ........check *EVE is going to die!!!!111*...................check
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Gorion Wassenar
Caldari Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:45:00 -
[1013]
Love all the "THE SKY IS FALLING! AHHHHHHHHHH!" null bears tears. ----- *results may vary*
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:45:00 -
[1014]
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Dodgy Past There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses.
This is massive world changes with 7 days notice.. created not by the players, eve is getting too random for long term projects imo.
The new challenges you face aren't being created by the devs, they're created by players who want to kill you. Figure out how to stop them.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:46:00 -
[1015]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
Cry more carebear. EvE more alive then ever, this change prove it.
The only thing alive and well is the RMT trade. Tell me, who is going to buy all those supercaps on ebay when there aren't any humans left in eve?
This^ and this wont ever result in more pvp.. it will result in alot more ganking of relatively defenceless targets and alot of wait time for careful ppl.. I kinda like the ganking oppotunity part .. but 7 days.. seriously.. some ccp decision makers have an agenda
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Sieran
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:47:00 -
[1016]
When this is all over I'm sure CCP will pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
I can't stress how HORRIBLE the management of the game is. You're not managing it you're MEDDLING - KNOCK IT OFF! You are TOO INVOLVED in the player base. GET OUT. We pay for the game - you GET PAID. You're making changes like a n00b. Make them slow, but RIGHT.
YOUR thoughts on game direction. YOUR long-term goals for the game?
REALLY?!! I thought the whole goal here was so that people who PAY to play the game could set their OWN long term thoughts and goals. Now I don't know what the heck to do. What direction should I train? Where should I go? Nullsec? You gotta be KIDDING ME?! I know - let me go to 0.0 and do a ton of work with an alliance, set up sov, get things rolling and FOOMP! rug pulled out from under our feet. OK - fine. Go set up somewhere else in 0.0 and do it all again. Now things are rolling again and dang if the rug didn't up and friggin disappear again.
It's really starting to look like the end goal is to control lag by removing the gaming population....
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:47:00 -
[1017]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Dodgy Past There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses.
This is massive world changes with 7 days notice.. created not by the players, eve is getting too random for long term projects imo.
The new challenges you face aren't being created by the devs, they're created by players who want to kill you. Figure out how to stop them.
I've been lobbying congress to stop unemployment checks but nothing has happened yet, how else am I supposed to fight PL?
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King Arillious
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:47:00 -
[1018]
Way to go CCP, lets just implement more nerfs. That'll for sure have the "desired effects" that you want..... lets make 0.0 as ****ty as we can. mission accomplished
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:50:00 -
[1019]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 00:53:38
Originally by: Sieran When this is all over I'm sure CCP will pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
I can't stress how HORRIBLE the management of the game is. You're not managing it you're MEDDLING - KNOCK IT OFF! You are TOO INVOLVED in the player base. GET OUT. We pay for the game - you GET PAID. You're making changes like a n00b. Make them slow, but RIGHT.
YOUR thoughts on game direction. YOUR long-term goals for the game?
REALLY?!! I thought the whole goal here was so that people who PAY to play the game could set their OWN long term thoughts and goals. Now I don't know what the heck to do. What direction should I train? Where should I go? Nullsec? You gotta be KIDDING ME?! I know - let me go to 0.0 and do a ton of work with an alliance, set up sov, get things rolling and FOOMP! rug pulled out from under our feet. OK - fine. Go set up somewhere else in 0.0 and do it all again. Now things are rolling again and dang if the rug didn't up and friggin disappear again.
It's really starting to look like the end goal is to control lag by removing the gaming population....
almost feels like a wow expansion..lets shake it all up and have ppl start over. If one only had some hints or inside informattion about the next "shuffle" luckily ccp are very good at being objective and not having individual people make dumb things like telling some of their friends playing and stuff like that. I dont trust ccp with "randomness" and i dont trust them with with this.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:50:00 -
[1020]
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Guys, Just accept that eve is dead. Welcome the new expansion: Eve Galaxies.
All that will be left on the server is butthurt SC blobs and bots. Let them have it, battlefield 3 comes out soon and should be superior to this cluster **** of a game in every way.
Cry more carebear. EvE more alive then ever, this change prove it.
The only thing alive and well is the RMT trade. Tell me, who is going to buy all those supercaps on ebay when there aren't any humans left in eve?
This^ and this wont ever result in more pvp.. it will result in alot more ganking of relatively defenceless targets and alot of wait time for careful ppl.. I kinda like the ganking oppotunity part .. but 7 days.. seriously.. some ccp decision makers have an agenda
Do you know what a "antithesis" is?
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Soultemplar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:53:00 -
[1021]
Well I'm happy I'm in high-sec, thank god I dont have to deal with null sec anymore.
Also I think this is a good way for alliances to make sure their space is safe instead of thinking "Its under our control no worry's there."
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:53:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Sieran When this is all over I'm sure CCP will pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
I can't stress how HORRIBLE the management of the game is. You're not managing it you're MEDDLING - KNOCK IT OFF! You are TOO INVOLVED in the player base. GET OUT. We pay for the game - you GET PAID. You're making changes like a n00b. Make them slow, but RIGHT.
YOUR thoughts on game direction. YOUR long-term goals for the game?
REALLY?!! I thought the whole goal here was so that people who PAY to play the game could set their OWN long term thoughts and goals. Now I don't know what the heck to do. What direction should I train? Where should I go? Nullsec? You gotta be KIDDING ME?! I know - let me go to 0.0 and do a ton of work with an alliance, set up sov, get things rolling and FOOMP! rug pulled out from under our feet. OK - fine. Go set up somewhere else in 0.0 and do it all again. Now things are rolling again and dang if the rug didn't up and friggin disappear again.
It's really starting to look like the end goal is to control lag by removing the gaming population....
almost feels like a wow expansion..lets shake it all up and have ppl start over.
Actually, currently nullsec feels like WoW, carebear safe heaven with teleportation to everyone, no one travels anymore.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:55:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: krewgin after reading the dev blog for this topic, that I will have some accounts for sale as living in 0.0 is going to be nerfed so bad that it wont be worth fighting for or living in.
thanks for messing up our game!
WTG CCP
Can i have your stuff? Thanks ... bye bye then. NEXT IN LINE PLEASE!
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guska Cryotank
Gallente Void Angels Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:56:00 -
[1024]
Just to be different, I actually support these changes. Will make life a little more interesting.
The only complaint I have, is that judging by the devblog, Jump Freighters won't be able to use the bridges. This seems odd to me, that JFs can't use them, but their non-jump-capable T1 brosephs can. JFs can use gates, so why not JBs?
(Yes I realise that this has probably been brought up in this thread, but 34 pages? Of mainly Trolling? Blow reading that for a joke!)
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MeBiatch
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:57:00 -
[1025]
HAHAHAHHAHAHA ALL THE NULLBEARS ARE PATHETIC... I USED TO LIVE IN FREGE LAND IN 2006! I REMBEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE HAVING TO JUMP 25 PLUS JUMPS JUST TO GET TO LOW SEC...
NOW YOU COMPLAIN THAT YOU ACTUALLY MIGHT LOOSE A SHIP CUSS YOU HAVE TO GO THREW A GATE!??!?!?1 YOU SMELL
ok now without caps lock...
seriously guys this is for the good of the game i live in faction null sec and i get along just fine... 200 mill from belt ratting a day (so stop *****ing about the annom nerf you nooblets!) and i cover my logistics via jf/carriers... you should try it not so bad...
the only people who will complain are those in giangantic congolermant alliances... hell you are in a corp thats a member of an allinace thats a member of a coalition... weather its drone/goon/north/aaa/south.... its redonckyless... kill your next door nieghbours!!! i go 5 jumps and i can find pvp against reds... why do you need 5+ jumps brdiges in tribune to bring in constant reinforcements... or any system for that reason... time to gain some balls and learn real pvp not this bloob crap!!!
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Chiralos
Merchant Princes
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:57:00 -
[1026]
Short term:
No JBs for jumping ships is obvious. Not so sure about 1 JB per system. How about reducing range of supercaps compared to dreads and carriers, which might allow short, smaller scale capital engagements, and making committing supercaps more of a commitment.
Long term:
How much more productive does 0.0 have to be to balance the risk ? 20% ? 50% ? I think 200% - 300% for in-space activities like mining. Theory is as follows.
Say you can produce X alone in highsec in one hour. What you want to see in nullsec is for every eg miner producing X, a raider trying to steal X and a guard trying to stop the raider. The miner produces 3X. About 1/3 of the time the raider wins and takes 3X for an average income of X. The other 2/3 of the time the miner/guard win, netting themselves X each on average. Now, income is the same as highsec, but small-gang-warfare fun is had by all.
Bump mining and loot yields (but not ISK) in nullsec, allow more refining and manufacturing slots (multiple outposts per system, POS buf ?). Ramp up taxes, refining, manufacturing fees in highsec. Consider more dynamic resources in nullsec - eg randomly occurring deposits of moongoo (PI-style moon mining ? Planetary rings ?) that last for a month or so.
Amarr Victor. |
Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:57:00 -
[1027]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 00:57:18 next thing they will be adding a new tech level every 6 months and make previous tech obsolete.. this is basically what theyre doing with territory lately.. player driven my ass.. 1 month minimum of notice before big changes like this omfg u guys tarded or on coke or something?
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:58:00 -
[1028]
CCP says "Jumpbridges are ****ed, oh what bad luck, this is a job for Fix it Duck!"
Please note that I am a native Kiwi, and we tend to pronounce "i" like a "u" (Aussies pronounce "i" as if it were "ee", but that's another matter), like the famous "fush and chups", or in this case "Jumpbrudges"... so imagine how I would pronounce "Fix it Duck".
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Ines Fy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:58:00 -
[1029]
CCP, show us on the doll where the bad 0.0 people touched you, so we can understand the real reasons why you are messing with us.
first it was the ratting nerf...
For my corp, the ratting in 0.0 is over since that nerf, I'm making L4 missions in empire again! After 2 years I had to take the dust out of my mission alt and start the party all over again...
My corp mates and I, now spend more time in empire than in 0.0! We just login for cta's. not even to home defense... to defend what, there is no more money in 0.0 to defend... even the reds stop coming to us, you can go all day and no red comes by to visit, we just stay in station all day afk and play other games. And when the reds come to the good systems the 40-60 people in local now living on it, blob then all the time.
Now the jump bridges nerf...
Nice, that will just makes us stay inside a station even more time! We like jbs not because of a question of security, it was a question of avoiding making more than 5 jumps to go anywhere! we are LAZY!
This nerf will just us make the double of jumps to reach any place by JB now, thanks...
If security was the reason and a problem and you just want to level the game play, put the JB near the iHub, no guns to defend it! we don't care, we just want to go anywhere in the minimum number of jumps possible! Let us play the game like we wanted, we are paying for it!
We want to travel fast, not with security! This is 0.0, there is no security here and I don't expect to have it. If I want security I will go back to empire.
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Moostang
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 00:59:00 -
[1030]
Edited by: Moostang on 11/05/2011 01:00:36
Originally by: Wibla This JB nerf is impressively stupid.
CCP, do you even play your own game?
Apparently not. IMO travel in this game in a subcap is the worst part of this game. It's horrible.
Leave the limit to two per system just make the jump bridges anchor-able at a planet instead of a moon and make them show up in the overview system-wide, i.e. player-made gates. Make them incap-able like station services and only destroyable when the i-hub is destroyable.
I dont give a damn about the safety of the current jump bridge system, I care about the 20-40 extra mind numbing jumps of pure hell like we had to endure pre-jump bridges.
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Farrellus Cameron
Sturmgrenadier Inc Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:00:00 -
[1031]
Will jump freighters be barred from using jump bridges? You did not mention them when you said black ops ships would be allowed to use jump bridges. Would seem odd if regular freighters can use jump bridges but not jump freighters since jump freighters can use conventional gates.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:05:00 -
[1032]
Originally by: Chiralos Short term:
No JBs for jumping ships is obvious. Not so sure about 1 JB per system. How about reducing range of supercaps compared to dreads and carriers, which might allow short, smaller scale capital engagements, and making committing supercaps more of a commitment.
Long term:
How much more productive does 0.0 have to be to balance the risk ? 20% ? 50% ? I think 200% - 300% for in-space activities like mining. Theory is as follows.
Say you can produce X alone in highsec in one hour. What you want to see in nullsec is for every eg miner producing X, a raider trying to steal X and a guard trying to stop the raider. The miner produces 3X. About 1/3 of the time the raider wins and takes 3X for an average income of X. The other 2/3 of the time the miner/guard win, netting themselves X each on average. Now, income is the same as highsec, but small-gang-warfare fun is had by all.
Bump mining and loot yields (but not ISK) in nullsec, allow more refining and manufacturing slots (multiple outposts per system, POS buf ?). Ramp up taxes, refining, manufacturing fees in highsec. Consider more dynamic resources in nullsec - eg randomly occurring deposits of moongoo (PI-style moon mining ? Planetary rings ?) that last for a month or so.
the value of 0.0 has been nerfed to sh*t over the last 2 -3 years.. almost as bad as mission loot/salvage now.. I think they decided that the fact that ppl could live well in 0.0 by just being friends and allowing carebears to rat for taxes for ship replacement even if they didnt wanna pvp.. its not the way eve is supposed to be! we are supposed to be cold and evil like the dev's intended!?
We are playing it all wrong.. soon will be in eula that you can only have 100 friends and you have to *** one of them over every 6 months or ur not allowed to have friends at all.
Sry for rant.. but omfg 7 days? too much shuffling.. why not abolish 0.0 empire building all together if ur gonna go this route?
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Versuvius Marii
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:05:00 -
[1033]
I hope those who are complaining haven't forgotten how a normal star gate functions. ============= HERE'S TO ME, HERE'S TO YOU, THE BEST OF FRIENDS, WILL ALWAYS BE! BUT IF WE SHOULD....DISAGREE! TO HELL WITH YOU AND HERE'S TO ME! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! ============= |
The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:06:00 -
[1034]
Oh, so you want to ruin 0.0 space and have more small scale PvP?
Well, I have some good news for CCP - you've accomplished the goal:
Screw you and your vision of nullsec. I'm officially into wardecing empire newb corps business - far away from supercap blobs that just got boosted. Want to see power projection? THIS is power projection: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1505084
P.S.: Yes, this is an alt of an 0.0 player... No, I wasn't in the North.
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LtCol Laurentius
Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:10:00 -
[1035]
About ****ing time CCP. Good Job!
And to you whiners out there: I have lived the last 3 years in nullsec. Without a single jumpbridge. Confirming it is possible. But ofc, you cannot be asleep at the helm anymore. You actually have to coordinate with other players. Use scouts. Use bookmarks. Be smart. For those of you that thinks this just is to much effort, I wish you good luck in your journey back to empire space, where you belong.
HTFU.
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Polrena
Caldari War Machine STR8NGE BREW
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:16:00 -
[1036]
Worst.Idea.Ever.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:16:00 -
[1037]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:16:51 People think that having a scout is so easy as to get a char in a Ibis in the next system. People is plain stupid
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:17:00 -
[1038]
Originally by: LtCol Laurentius About ****ing time CCP. Good Job!
And to you whiners out there: I have lived the last 3 years in nullsec. Without a single jumpbridge. Confirming it is possible. But ofc, you cannot be asleep at the helm anymore. You actually have to coordinate with other players. Use scouts. Use bookmarks. Be smart. For those of you that thinks this just is to much effort, I wish you good luck in your journey back to empire space, where you belong.
HTFU.
Id love to see you guys hold sov long enuff to have a jb ahaha I bet you titan bridge more then the avg guy tho?
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DeadDuck
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:20:00 -
[1039]
And since you CCP are tweaking 0.0, take a look at the Super C(r)aps, cause they REALLY need a look. It's totality ******ed what you are seeing with dreads being completely worthless at the moment. Why the hell siege dreads can't move and can't be repped ? They are at the moment sitting ducks waiting to be destroyed by the omni present Super capitals. Why the hell a Super Carrier can sustain a Titan DD? Why you make it so easy and cheap to produce Super Caps? Instead of Super Caps BPO's you don't you turn them on 1 copy BPC's keeping the same price ?
If you want to tweak 0.0 take a look of what's happening in sov fights. I'm in favour of the JB nerf, and since you started revise 0.0, revise Super C(r)aps roles and the C(r)ap roles and the totality ******ed sov system you invented.
Strength and Honour |
Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:21:00 -
[1040]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:21:37
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Id love to see you guys hold sov long enuff to have a jb ahaha I bet you titan bridge more then the avg guy tho?
A mercenary alliance that don't get to maintain sov in a territory. That's bad publicity for the business
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Arien Omnicron
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:25:00 -
[1041]
Originally by: Furb Killer So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
Exactly disrupting the JB network it going to kill large alliances. ITS 0.0 Players control the flow of action, if this game is supposed to be player driven, why are you removing more freedoms of the player
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:26:00 -
[1042]
Originally by: Arien Omnicron
Originally by: Furb Killer So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
Exactly disrupting the JB network it going to kill large alliances. ITS 0.0 Players control the flow of action, if this game is supposed to be player driven, why are you removing more freedoms of the player
They are giving players freedom, freedom to kill you.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:28:00 -
[1043]
Originally by: Arien Omnicron
Originally by: Furb Killer So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
Exactly disrupting the JB network it going to kill large alliances. ITS 0.0 Players control the flow of action, if this game is supposed to be player driven, why are you removing more freedoms of the player
Latetely theyre just "shuffling" it about.. with little to no notice, eve used to be stable world.. aside from what players did. This is starting to feel like they wanna go more a traditional mmo route.. which is sad.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:29:00 -
[1044]
Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:30:11 Time to do a semi-serious post: They make that every alliance can hold the sov of every system it has people to hold on. No more entire regions owned by 1 alliance. They make that most of the process to move a ship is done via stargate. The enemy alliances make gatecamps. The enemy alliance kill more ships, either they use tricks as warping to a planet or other entity in the overview to avoid the interdictors of every system (remember, 0.0) and avoiding the "easy kb way" of a gatecamp ¼¼ (not said, but a lot of carebears of 0.0 TBH). The only they want is to stimulate the market. By the amount of kills there will be. Ah, and also want to stimulate the population of Ibis in 0.0 EDIT: Another note, they want to make die the market of expensive implants
Who will win in this game? The industrialist, OFC.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:30:00 -
[1045]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Arien Omnicron
Originally by: Furb Killer So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
Exactly disrupting the JB network it going to kill large alliances. ITS 0.0 Players control the flow of action, if this game is supposed to be player driven, why are you removing more freedoms of the player
They are giving players freedom, freedom to kill you.
If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.
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Arien Omnicron
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:31:00 -
[1046]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Arien Omnicron
Originally by: Furb Killer So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
Exactly disrupting the JB network it going to kill large alliances. ITS 0.0 Players control the flow of action, if this game is supposed to be player driven, why are you removing more freedoms of the player
They are giving players freedom, freedom to kill you.
First off do you live in 0.0, because honestly they're hundreds of chances for me to get killed every day. Having a Jb network does not stop reds or neuts from entering our space. Having a JB net work allows us to protect out sov space properly, which is what we want. You want to make things harder for people CCP put a cap drain or a timer on cloaking
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:33:00 -
[1047]
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Arien Omnicron
Originally by: Furb Killer So the TL;DR is that you are yet AGAIN nerfing incentives to actually live in 0.0 (instead of using high sec alts for your income) and somewhere in the future you are going to iterate on it to fix the real issues, as you say all the time but never actually happens?
Exactly disrupting the JB network it going to kill large alliances. ITS 0.0 Players control the flow of action, if this game is supposed to be player driven, why are you removing more freedoms of the player
They are giving players freedom, freedom to kill you.
If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.
The irony...
BU BU BU, the carebear crybaby troll is awake, are you having nightmares? Go back to sleep, no one is going to gank you in our bed, you are safe their.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:34:00 -
[1048]
I support this product and/or service. -----WARNING SIGNATURE BELOW-----
Bring back the NeoNeoCom! |
Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:35:00 -
[1049]
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:30:11 Time to do a semi-serious post: They make that every alliance can hold the sov of every system it has people to hold on. No more entire regions owned by 1 alliance. They make that most of the process to move a ship is done via stargate. The enemy alliances make gatecamps. The enemy alliance kill more ships, either they use tricks as warping to a planet or other entity in the overview to avoid the interdictors of every system (remember, 0.0) and avoiding the "easy kb way" of a gatecamp ¼¼ (not said, but a lot of carebears of 0.0 TBH). The only they want is to stimulate the market. By the amount of kills there will be. Ah, and also want to stimulate the population of Ibis in 0.0 EDIT: Another note, they want to make die the market of expensive implants
Who will win in this game? The industrialist, OFC.
The first serious post of the night and people don't give his opinnion. U all mad
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:37:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:30:11 Time to do a semi-serious post: They make that every alliance can hold the sov of every system it has people to hold on. No more entire regions owned by 1 alliance. They make that most of the process to move a ship is done via stargate. The enemy alliances make gatecamps. The enemy alliance kill more ships, either they use tricks as warping to a planet or other entity in the overview to avoid the interdictors of every system (remember, 0.0) and avoiding the "easy kb way" of a gatecamp ¼¼ (not said, but a lot of carebears of 0.0 TBH). The only they want is to stimulate the market. By the amount of kills there will be. Ah, and also want to stimulate the population of Ibis in 0.0 EDIT: Another note, they want to make die the market of expensive implants
Who will win in this game? The industrialist, OFC.
The first serious post of the night and people don't give his opinnion. U all mad
How will the industrialist win without null sec minerals? Oh yeah the drone region residents.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:37:00 -
[1051]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 01:38:53
Originally by: Miso Hawnee I've been lobbying congress to stop unemployment checks but nothing has happened yet, how else am I supposed to fight PL?
I started out ratting in Stain in a Harbinger having flown out their in an Inty, our corp ran a ship replacement program which was funded through corp members donating their hawler spawns and drone anomalies ( which meant our logistics guys didn't have to break their backs since they were mainly importing T2 mods ). We did pretty well there and controlled a nice pocket because we did our best to make sure anyone who tried to bother us ended up with an embarrassing lossmail. I lost loads of ships, killled even more and also got to spend enough time ratting to grow my wallet at a comfortable rate and even venture on road trips to HED.
Oddly enough this was in an alliance that is blue to the NC who're conspicuously absent in whining about this; Br1ck Squad. \o/
Basically, get out and fight for your space whenever you should, not just when forced by a CTA to go endure a lag fest. It's a lot more fun.
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Random Comment
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:37:00 -
[1052]
from this action I gather that CCP supports the Gate Camp as the preferred method of PvP.
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Ella Scorpio
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:37:00 -
[1053]
Edited by: Ella Scorpio on 11/05/2011 01:39:43 Yes, another nerf which will have the opposite of the effect intended. You want more player interaction, but do something that will make nullsec less populated? Last Friday night--yes, Friday during a peak time--I flew 40 jumps through nullsec without anyone challenging me. Before the truesec nerf, I could never have done that. After this nerf, I could probably go 100 jumps without anyone to fight...
This nerf also kills nullsec industry, which is the opposite of what CCP says they want. You can't more rorquals around easily, cynojammers are now useless because you can't get caps in at all now (to be fair, this will make building supercaps more difficult because if you cynojam a CSAA system it will be hard to get materials in to build.
The problem again is that this hurts small alliances while only inconveniencing the big ones. The few small alliances who have tried to stay in 0.0 after the last nerf were doing it by finding nearby good systems, making deals to get them, and building JBs to get to them...now CCP has screwed that up too.
Also, small alliances get to sov battles through JBs. Large alliances get there through titan bridges. So now titans have become even more essential to even participate in nullsec warfare...ridiculous.
I actually am less concerned about the "1 JB per system" change than blocking caps from JBs, but both are clearly ill thought-out. I know the players asked for incremental improvements, but we didn't mean incremental fiddling with the rules. Get all of the nullsec changes into a single expansion, CCP, and stop making small alliances waste billions trying to react to each change.
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Indy Rider
Amarr Element 115. Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:38:00 -
[1054]
Originally by: Arien Omnicron
Having a Jb network does not stop reds or neuts from entering our space. Having a JB net work allows us to protect out sov space properly
It'll only make small gang pvp worse. Big fleets are already deployed / staged in systems where its easy to either gate or titan jump there, they have no use of JB networks. Small gangs move in nullsec using JB networks.
Nerfing something like sov mechanics makes much more sense, a lack of convenience is not a good way to moderate gameplay.
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Kenny Fookin Powers
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:40:00 -
[1055]
Originally by: Ines Fy
For my corp, the ratting in 0.0 is over since that nerf, I'm making L4 missions in empire again! After 2 years I had to take the dust out of my mission alt and start the party all over again...
don't worry, they're nerfing that too, nancy...
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:40:00 -
[1056]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:30:11 Time to do a semi-serious post: They make that every alliance can hold the sov of every system it has people to hold on. No more entire regions owned by 1 alliance. They make that most of the process to move a ship is done via stargate. The enemy alliances make gatecamps. The enemy alliance kill more ships, either they use tricks as warping to a planet or other entity in the overview to avoid the interdictors of every system (remember, 0.0) and avoiding the "easy kb way" of a gatecamp ¼¼ (not said, but a lot of carebears of 0.0 TBH). The only they want is to stimulate the market. By the amount of kills there will be. Ah, and also want to stimulate the population of Ibis in 0.0 EDIT: Another note, they want to make die the market of expensive implants
Who will win in this game? The industrialist, OFC.
The first serious post of the night and people don't give his opinnion. U all mad
How will the industrialist win without null sec minerals? Oh yeah the drone region residents.
Or even buying the right minerals in empire and doing ships with them. Then going to his safe zone in 0.0 and selling them at higher prices that b4 (that's OFC also XD). There's always supply-demand. ALWAYS.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:42:00 -
[1057]
Originally by: Kenny ****in Powers
Originally by: Ines Fy
For my corp, the ratting in 0.0 is over since that nerf, I'm making L4 missions in empire again! After 2 years I had to take the dust out of my mission alt and start the party all over again...
don't worry, they're nerfing that too, nancy...
And that day get out 50% of his playerbase. Not 'cause they want. 'Cause they won't have enough ISK to buy his PLEX'es. They won't touch the L4 grinders. I can assure that
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Dvomayn
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:43:00 -
[1058]
Lol listen to yourself for crying out loud. People used to survive in EVE without JB's, you can sure as hell survive after these changes. The only people these changes are going to remotely hurt is the idiots up north who have jump bridges splattered everywhere and have no interest in participating in decent PVP of any sort. Man the hell up and take the changes. This is probably one of the best changes CCP could make to JB's - they could always remove them and _god forbid_ you would have to take more gates, shock horror.
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Matthias Thane
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:44:00 -
[1059]
Edited by: Matthias Thane on 11/05/2011 01:45:26 Let's make this clear: I am an enemy of the NC. I still think this is stupid.
I agee that jump bridges need changing, but not like this. I agree taht combat jump capable ships (baring black-ops) shouldn't be able to use JBs, but when did they use them in the first place? This is punishing players for being organised. I don't think that should happen.
The principle behind this change is wrong.
Originally by: Moostang Edited by: Moostang on 11/05/2011 01:00:36
Originally by: Wibla This JB nerf is impressively stupid.
CCP, do you even play your own game?
Apparently not. IMO travel in this game in a subcap is the worst part of this game. It's horrible.
Leave the limit to two per system just make the jump bridges anchor-able at a planet instead of a moon and make them show up in the overview system-wide, i.e. player-made gates. Make them incap-able like station services and only destroyable when the i-hub is destroyable.
I dont give a damn about the safety of the current jump bridge system, I care about the 20-40 extra mind numbing jumps of pure hell like we had to endure pre-jump bridges.
This. I think this should be implemented.
You want to make things more interesting and random? Make null to null wormholes as common in the game as rifters are in small gang pvp. Make 50% of null wormholes have enough mass limit to give a titan a return trip. You will be giving alliances relatively safe pathways into enemy space. You will be allowing small gang to medium fleet size engagements. Nothing will be safe because wormhole are random.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:44:00 -
[1060]
Originally by: Dvomayn Lol listen to yourself for crying out loud. People used to survive in EVE without JB's, you can sure as hell survive after these changes. The only people these changes are going to remotely hurt is the idiots up north who have jump bridges splattered everywhere and have no interest in participating in decent PVP of any sort. Man the hell up and take the changes. This is probably one of the best changes CCP could make to JB's - they could always remove them and _god forbid_ you would have to take more gates, shock horror.
To be honest, they needed to do that. I was starting to be tired of not selling the items at the price that I want.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:46:00 -
[1061]
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:30:11 Time to do a semi-serious post: They make that every alliance can hold the sov of every system it has people to hold on. No more entire regions owned by 1 alliance. They make that most of the process to move a ship is done via stargate. The enemy alliances make gatecamps. The enemy alliance kill more ships, either they use tricks as warping to a planet or other entity in the overview to avoid the interdictors of every system (remember, 0.0) and avoiding the "easy kb way" of a gatecamp ¼¼ (not said, but a lot of carebears of 0.0 TBH). The only they want is to stimulate the market. By the amount of kills there will be. Ah, and also want to stimulate the population of Ibis in 0.0 EDIT: Another note, they want to make die the market of expensive implants
Who will win in this game? The industrialist, OFC.
The first serious post of the night and people don't give his opinnion. U all mad
How will the industrialist win without null sec minerals? Oh yeah the drone region residents.
Or even buying the right minerals in empire and doing ships with them. Then going to his safe zone in 0.0 and selling them at higher prices that b4 (that's OFC also XD). There's always supply-demand. ALWAYS.
Because high and low sec belts have so much ABCM in em. Drones will be the only source of megacyte and zydrine. Wormholes for Morphite. And no one wants to mine in a wormhole when they could just get ribbons and make 10 times as much.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:47:00 -
[1062]
Related to the topic. What's the largest killboard of the web?
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:48:00 -
[1063]
Originally by: Matthias Thane Edited by: Matthias Thane on 11/05/2011 01:45:26 Let's make this clear: I am an enemy of the NC. I still think this is stupid.
I agee that jump bridges need changing, but not like this. I agree taht combat jump capable ships (baring black-ops) shouldn't be able to use JBs, but when did they use them in the first place? This is punishing players for being organised. I don't think that should happen.
The principle behind this change is wrong.
Only Rorqs and JFs really use bridges, and thats to get into cyno jammed systems.
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Hugh Hefner
Caldari Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:49:00 -
[1064]
Im getting to seriously dislike CCP Soundwave, just wanted to share that with the rest of you. Its rare to see such a clueless individual reign free mindlessly wrecking a game, a sad thing since its a game I kind of enjoy, though less and less with each change CCP Soundwave implement lol. Let us all gather together and pray that he gets a promotion to a position where he cant wreck the game further.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:49:00 -
[1065]
Edited by: Megy Feel on 11/05/2011 01:49:49
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Giselle Garner
Originally by: Giselle Garner Edited by: Giselle Garner on 11/05/2011 01:30:11 Time to do a semi-serious post: They make that every alliance can hold the sov of every system it has people to hold on. No more entire regions owned by 1 alliance. They make that most of the process to move a ship is done via stargate. The enemy alliances make gatecamps. The enemy alliance kill more ships, either they use tricks as warping to a planet or other entity in the overview to avoid the interdictors of every system (remember, 0.0) and avoiding the "easy kb way" of a gatecamp ¼¼ (not said, but a lot of carebears of 0.0 TBH). The only they want is to stimulate the market. By the amount of kills there will be. Ah, and also want to stimulate the population of Ibis in 0.0 EDIT: Another note, they want to make die the market of expensive implants
Who will win in this game? The industrialist, OFC.
The first serious post of the night and people don't give his opinnion. U all mad
How will the industrialist win without null sec minerals? Oh yeah the drone region residents.
Well like using those brain cells once in blue moon.
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:49:00 -
[1066]
Originally by: Cellistara
Because high and low sec belts have so much ABCM in em. Drones will be the only source of megacyte and zydrine. Wormholes for Morphite. And no one wants to mine in a wormhole when they could just get ribbons and make 10 times as much.
If all about price fluctuation. If the price is worth to do it, it will be done by someone . If the market need a bit of some mineral that NO ONE extracts, will be extracted, so easy like that.
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LtCol Laurentius
Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:50:00 -
[1067]
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: LtCol Laurentius About ****ing time CCP. Good Job!
And to you whiners out there: I have lived the last 3 years in nullsec. Without a single jumpbridge. Confirming it is possible. But ofc, you cannot be asleep at the helm anymore. You actually have to coordinate with other players. Use scouts. Use bookmarks. Be smart. For those of you that thinks this just is to much effort, I wish you good luck in your journey back to empire space, where you belong.
HTFU.
Id love to see you guys hold sov long enuff to have a jb ahaha I bet you titan bridge more then the avg guy tho?
¿
I've been in PL since january 2011. For two and a half years before that I lived most of the time in an alliance without a single titan. I am pretty sure the logitsics challenges of nomadic PVP alliances, that has no local market and needs to import everything, and that PVPs constantly and thus needs to replace losses compares favorably to an allaince that sit in the same ****ing system year in and year out and run sanctums. Try get a clue before you sperg on the forums.
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Mobius Fierce
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:51:00 -
[1068]
They should change null sec. But they should incorporate the buffs and the nerfs at the same time. Now they're just making living in null sec worse right away and may or may not get to the good parts at some unspecified time in the future. I imagine all the good things will get delayed and then forgotten about while actually living in null sec just becomes more of a hassle than it already is.
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Lunenwald
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:51:00 -
[1069]
This is a major economic error. This will drive up the cost of ALL null sec resources in hi and low sec. It will hurt hi sec economies, since null will not be BUYING as much of their goods. This will also cause players to quit. Not good for CCPs wallet either. There are dead zones in null where no one lives because CCP has killed them,not the carebears or PVPers. These systems are now not profitable. JBs only connect profitable systems. No one likes flying through these wastelands, not even PVPers, since no one lives there. Make these wastelands profitable again CCP! Thats your real answer. JBs are just a symptom of a bigger problem that you created. Fix that and your JB "problem" will go away.
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NeoKarn
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:52:00 -
[1070]
This change is going to do Stuff all except **** off 0.0 players.
CCP are expecting now that roaming gangs will be able to catch all these's people as they move from bridge to bridge via the gate. While this will happen to a small amount of people it will be very rare as most of the jumpbridge "links" (as in 2 JB systems) are deep inside your controlled area. Meaning most roaming gangs would be intercepted by then.
As for slowing down a large fleet it's added maybe 2 minutes per JB at most. So your fleet will arrive maybe 10 minutes later at most to a big fleet fight which isn't going to make much difference in 95% of battles.
Whats needed is a way to make small fleets strategically relevant. If I had to change Jumpbridges (Which really would have been WAY WAY down the list of things to change in 0.0 ) I would have moved then to the ihub as a destructible modual (like station services) that could be taken out in 15 minutes by a fleet of 20 - 30 subcaps. Then once repaired I would have put a 1 hour timer on it to re-establish the JB link. That way before a large fight an offensive fleet could send in 3 or 4 small fast moving gangs to disable the JB network to slow down the response time of the defenders.
TL;DR : Make JB's easier to incapacitate by small gangs. Add a timer once repaired to re-establish the link. Small gang now can provoke a decent fight as Allaince's have to respond or have there JB network disabled.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:52:00 -
[1071]
Originally by: Dvomayn Lol listen to yourself for crying out loud. People used to survive in EVE without JB's, you can sure as hell survive after these changes. The only people these changes are going to remotely hurt is the idiots up north who have jump bridges splattered everywhere and have no interest in participating in decent PVP of any sort. Man the hell up and take the changes. This is probably one of the best changes CCP could make to JB's - they could always remove them and _god forbid_ you would have to take more gates, shock horror.
Or cancel account(s) ? but ccp starting to do all these short warning massive changes to the way many ppl live in 0.0 ... I want changes to my 0.0 lifestyle to be changed by players not alot of bufs and nerfs and buffs again to "keep it fresh" reminds me too much of other mmo's. needed changes fine.. but 7days for ppl with real lives to do all that logistics work thats lame and not needed?..
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:55:00 -
[1072]
Originally by: Lunenwald This is a major economic error. This will drive up the cost of ALL null sec resources in hi and low sec. It will hurt hi sec economies, since null will not be BUYING as much of their goods. This will also cause players to quit. Not good for CCPs wallet either. There are dead zones in null where no one lives because CCP has killed them,not the carebears or PVPers. These systems are now not profitable. JBs only connect profitable systems. No one likes flying through these wastelands, not even PVPers, since no one lives there. Make these wastelands profitable again CCP! Thats your real answer. JBs are just a symptom of a bigger problem that you created. Fix that and your JB "problem" will go away.
They want more isk-sinks ;p
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Lieutenant Narf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:55:00 -
[1073]
Crap, Overhauls suck.
Is what they did to galaxies, they were never happy with the system. Alwase had to overhaul it, and eventually peeps got fed up and left.
Not gonna make every 1 happy 100% of the time,
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Arien Omnicron
Gallente Interwebs Cooter Explosion Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:57:00 -
[1074]
Originally by: Hugh Hefner Im getting to seriously dislike CCP Soundwave, just wanted to share that with the rest of you. Its rare to see such a clueless individual reign free mindlessly wrecking a game, a sad thing since its a game I kind of enjoy, though less and less with each change CCP Soundwave implement lol. Let us all gather together and pray that he gets a promotion to a position where he cant wreck the game further.
Did any one else watch the CEO presentation by the head of battle clinic. Did any one read this Hugh's post CCP people are not liking your leader ship. I hope you seriously consider the people voice, because from the looks of it they are not happy The Mittani put the CSM into action.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:57:00 -
[1075]
Originally by: MeBiatch HAHAHAHHAHAHA ALL THE NULLBEARS ARE PATHETIC... I USED TO LIVE IN FREGE LAND IN 2006! I REMBEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE HAVING TO JUMP 25 PLUS JUMPS JUST TO GET TO LOW SEC...
NOW YOU COMPLAIN THAT YOU ACTUALLY MIGHT LOOSE A SHIP CUSS YOU HAVE TO GO THREW A GATE!??!?!?1 YOU SMELL
ok now without caps lock...
seriously guys this is for the good of the game i live in faction null sec and i get along just fine... 200 mill from belt ratting a day (so stop *****ing about the annom nerf you nooblets!) and i cover my logistics via jf/carriers... you should try it not so bad...
the only people who will complain are those in giangantic congolermant alliances... hell you are in a corp thats a member of an allinace thats a member of a coalition... weather its drone/goon/north/aaa/south.... its redonckyless... kill your next door nieghbours!!! i go 5 jumps and i can find pvp against reds... why do you need 5+ jumps brdiges in tribune to bring in constant reinforcements... or any system for that reason... time to gain some balls and learn real pvp not this bloob crap!!!
VIVA LA FREGE!!! IM RIGHT WITH YOU THERE MAN!
I remember escorting freighters from LXQ up to ngm before jump bridges were introduced, back in the day before cyno jammers and when ginger magician was still hot dropping moms on people. You know what?
EVEN W/O Jump bridges we still managed to control over 50 systems, and coordinate attacks, we still had people attack and eventually over throw us.
All this nerf is going to do is force alliance to put effort into controlling their space again.
oh yeah VIVA LA FREGE!
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:57:00 -
[1076]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 01:59:52
Originally by: Matthias Thane Edited by: Matthias Thane on 11/05/2011 01:45:26 Let's make this clear: I am an enemy of the NC. I still think this is stupid.
I agee that jump bridges need changing, but not like this. I agree taht combat jump capable ships (baring black-ops) shouldn't be able to use JBs, but when did they use them in the first place? This is punishing players for being organised. I don't think that should happen.
The principle behind this change is wrong.
Originally by: Moostang Edited by: Moostang on 11/05/2011 01:00:36
Originally by: Wibla This JB nerf is impressively stupid.
CCP, do you even play your own game?
Apparently not. IMO travel in this game in a subcap is the worst part of this game. It's horrible.
Leave the limit to two per system just make the jump bridges anchor-able at a planet instead of a moon and make them show up in the overview system-wide, i.e. player-made gates. Make them incap-able like station services and only destroyable when the i-hub is destroyable.
I dont give a damn about the safety of the current jump bridge system, I care about the 20-40 extra mind numbing jumps of pure hell like we had to endure pre-jump bridges.
This. I think this should be implemented.
You want to make things more interesting and random? Make null to null wormholes as common in the game as rifters are in small gang pvp. Make 50% of null wormholes have enough mass limit to give a titan a return trip. You will be giving alliances relatively safe pathways into enemy space. You will be allowing small gang to medium fleet size engagements. Nothing will be safe because wormhole are random.
I dont trust ccp with randomness since t2bpo crap and similar **** with insider knowledge and handouts.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 01:58:00 -
[1077]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 01:38:53
Originally by: Miso Hawnee I've been lobbying congress to stop unemployment checks but nothing has happened yet, how else am I supposed to fight PL?
I started out ratting in Stain in a Harbinger having flown out their in an Inty, our corp ran a ship replacement program which was funded through corp members donating their hawler spawns and drone anomalies ( which meant our logistics guys didn't have to break their backs since they were mainly importing T2 mods ). We did pretty well there and controlled a nice pocket because we did our best to make sure anyone who tried to bother us ended up with an embarrassing lossmail. I lost loads of ships, killled even more and also got to spend enough time ratting to grow my wallet at a comfortable rate and even venture on road trips to HED.
Oddly enough this was in an alliance that is blue to the NC who're conspicuously absent in whining about this; Br1ck Squad. \o/
Basically, get out and fight for your space whenever you should, not just when forced by a CTA to go endure a lag fest. It's a lot more fun.
I've been fighting for space, whether in sov war or roams since CVA help space. The down side is that a lot of that time has been spent as the underdog, getting blobbed by supercaps, or before SCraps were good I can remember PL dropping carriers on our frigate roam in Doril. It is ironic that somebody in PL would tell me to fight for my space, seeing as PL has never fought a single defensive war in their entire history. PL tried in Fountain, lost one fight and went to empire.
I really didn't expect you to answer my trolling with an honest answer... :p
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:08:00 -
[1078]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: MeBiatch HAHAHAHHAHAHA ALL THE NULLBEARS ARE PATHETIC... I USED TO LIVE IN FREGE LAND IN 2006! I REMBEMBER WHAT IT WAS LIKE HAVING TO JUMP 25 PLUS JUMPS JUST TO GET TO LOW SEC...
NOW YOU COMPLAIN THAT YOU ACTUALLY MIGHT LOOSE A SHIP CUSS YOU HAVE TO GO THREW A GATE!??!?!?1 YOU SMELL
ok now without caps lock...
seriously guys this is for the good of the game i live in faction null sec and i get along just fine... 200 mill from belt ratting a day (so stop *****ing about the annom nerf you nooblets!) and i cover my logistics via jf/carriers... you should try it not so bad...
the only people who will complain are those in giangantic congolermant alliances... hell you are in a corp thats a member of an allinace thats a member of a coalition... weather its drone/goon/north/aaa/south.... its redonckyless... kill your next door nieghbours!!! i go 5 jumps and i can find pvp against reds... why do you need 5+ jumps brdiges in tribune to bring in constant reinforcements... or any system for that reason... time to gain some balls and learn real pvp not this bloob crap!!!
VIVA LA FREGE!!! IM RIGHT WITH YOU THERE MAN!
I remember escorting freighters from LXQ up to ngm before jump bridges were introduced, back in the day before cyno jammers and when ginger magician was still hot dropping moms on people. You know what?
EVEN W/O Jump bridges we still managed to control over 50 systems, and coordinate attacks, we still had people attack and eventually over throw us.
All this nerf is going to do is force alliance to put effort into controlling their space again.
oh yeah VIVA LA FREGE!
Seems to be a lot of "Back in my day, ..." going on here. Back in your day things were ****ty, but things should improve over time, not get better then switch back to the ****tiness. It would be like saying ok, the calculator is great, but then switching back to a damn slide rule.
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Opiboble Inte
Hard Rock Mining Co. The Jagged Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:09:00 -
[1079]
This is BS. Atleast allow a CAP to be able to go through a JB if it leads into a a Cyno Jammed system. -Opi out. |
IsoMetricanTaliac 2
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:12:00 -
[1080]
Edited by: IsoMetricanTaliac 2 on 11/05/2011 02:15:07 I can see the JB nerf helping the LAG situation! As there are sure to be a lot of players that will decide EVE is no longer the game for them & will move on to one of the other NEW space based MMO's that have opened lately.
The big alliances/coalitions won't be to bothered by these changes but what are the smaller ones supposed to do? They are not always able to have multiple Titans to move logistical materials around where the bigger alliances/coalitions have access to that many Titans they could probably replace JB's with one if it wasn't such a pain in the ass. (Not saying they will just that they could if they wanted)
No I don't think these changes are going to go down very well among the smaller sized alliances that are not part of a huge coalition as they are the ones this will affect the most, & when you add these changes with the many others that have happened recently in 0.0 it really doesn't make 0.0 living a good thing to do especially when you can live in Highsec, have access to most if not all of the available minerals, be protected against most unexpected attacks to a point & not have to worry about logistics for processing etc why would anyone want to live in 0.0 that has to struggle to access those types of things?
I have to agree with other people that are saying that this nerf will end up having the totally opposite effect ingame & once the damage is done it's done & 0.0 will become even less populated.
In a Time When Many Will Seek Death, There Will Always Be Those Like Me Who Won't Mind Helping Them Along Their Way!?! |
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RIP Wash
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:14:00 -
[1081]
This does not bode well for my interest in EVE.
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:15:00 -
[1082]
Originally by: Cellistara Seems to be a lot of "Back in my day, ..." going on here. Back in your day things were ****ty, but things should improve over time, not get better then switch back to the ****tiness. It would be like saying ok, the calculator is great, but then switching back to a damn slide rule.
Anyone will tell you the game was better back then, nto worse. None of the things being nerfed here improved 0.0 gameplay, they simply created a series of crutches that allowed it to get along at a more relaxed pace and crank out supers, which have had the added effect of ruining sov. games even further.
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Zarko Dreadlor
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:19:00 -
[1083]
hey, here's an idea. FIX BOTTERS. FIX BOTS sitting in jita making billions, and makeing it impossible for a human to do ****.
Fixed botters in nullsec who go to there POS.
Fix something thats ****ing WRONG and broken.
I don't even care jump bridges are going down to 1 per system. You might consider fixing botting first.
FAIL
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:19:00 -
[1084]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 02:24:23 Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 02:21:42
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
Originally by: Cellistara Seems to be a lot of "Back in my day, ..." going on here. Back in your day things were ****ty, but things should improve over time, not get better then switch back to the ****tiness. It would be like saying ok, the calculator is great, but then switching back to a damn slide rule.
Anyone will tell you the game was better back then, nto worse. None of the things being nerfed here improved 0.0 gameplay, they simply created a series of crutches that allowed it to get along at a more relaxed pace and crank out supers, which have had the added effect of ruining sov. games even further.
Im pretty sure your just stationg personal bs oppinion =) Maybe ccp should make a hardcore server for you guys . and then people who enjoy many aspects of the game can play on tq? what you want is as many people as play eve now.. but nothing that makes them stay except roaming around in haulers and hulks w expensive mods? :D or maybe ignoring local while checking belts in expensive marauder or faction bs.. looking for the valuable loot.. that isnt there anymore.?
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:23:00 -
[1085]
Originally by: Zarko Dreadlor hey, here's an idea. FIX BOTTERS. FIX BOTS sitting in jita making billions, and makeing it impossible for a human to do ****.
Fixed botters in nullsec who go to there POS.
Fix something thats ****ing WRONG and broken.
I don't even care jump bridges are going down to 1 per system. You might consider fixing botting first.
FAIL
THIS OMFG!! ^
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Better Than You
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:23:00 -
[1086]
Oh great. I was worried I would be able to help my friends find bitter *******s when they decide to get board and camp their station during their down time. Oh wait... can't do that now. Sorry guys, CCP decided null sec should be about 1337 Pee Vee Pee and screwed up me being able to get to you guys. Great job CCP, really great.
CCP; Dictating who can be reliable friends since 2011.
Anymore wonderful changes in store for those of us who fought hard to get some territory, those of us who actually play the game and not some super fail devs who think that because they work at CCP, means they understand the players and what we want, in the near future???
You can take this game and shove it up your ass!
- **Friendship will always trump the desire to fight!** |
Helican Vamberfeld
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:27:00 -
[1087]
My concerns center around these statements
Quote: relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
Define "balanced enough".
Quote: Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
What are the goals?
Quote: happy with movement/player interaction?
Tell us what measuring stick you are using to determine happiness.
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Jenna Mai
CyberNet Experiments
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:29:00 -
[1088]
When you have this many page of people moaning about a change within 10 hours of a dev blog you know it's gotta be a good idea.
I'm fully in support of the changes, I have alts that live out in 0.0 and even though it will make things more interesting in 0.0, people have gotten far too comfortable out there.
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Arthello
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:30:00 -
[1089]
All those tears. It's so beautiful. I think I'm gonna cry. This thread is almost poetry.
With that said there's always room for more emorage "I quit because nullsec is dangerous" posts. Poast moar!
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:32:00 -
[1090]
Originally by: Cellistara Seems to be a lot of "Back in my day, ..." going on here. Back in your day things were ****ty, but things should improve over time, not get better then switch back to the ****tiness. It would be like saying ok, the calculator is great, but then switching back to a damn slide rule.
There were a lot of better things back in the day.
With no sanctums or stuff like that people spread out to rat in groups of 3 to 5 in different systems to rat and make money, this spreading out allowed for more small roaming gang pvp to jump some people out on the fringes of their space. There were also dedicated roaming fleets that would patrol space as a defense fleet. We didnt have bridges so we had to have gangs going out and always moving to catch incoming hostiles.
some interesting facts about eve.
before jump bridges and jump freighters, cyno jammers and cyno beacons.
1. BOB, aka IT aka Raiden controlled over 75 systems and kept them well defended. 2. hauling jobs were done in carriers, which back then couldn't hold battleships 3. If someone fielded a mothership or a titan it was an OH **** situation 4. Losing a fleet of 50 battleships was a big deal 5. EvE still existed, people still played, empires came, empires fell. Curse, ASCN, Imperian, Goons, Tri
We still functioned in 0.0, we still had our wars, and it was fun. It was hard, but we still had fun. You got a better sense of accomplishment when your fleet flew 25 jumps to defend a pos tower and successfully did it.
So amongst your raging and whining, you should remember, you all have it easy, things were a lot harder in RMR eve.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:34:00 -
[1091]
Originally by: Better Than You Edited by: Better Than You on 11/05/2011 02:26:21 Oh great. I was worried I would be able to help my friends fight bitter *******s when they decide to get board and camp their station during their down time. Oh wait... can't do that now. Sorry guys, CCP decided null sec should be about 1337 Pee Vee Pee and screwed up me being able to get to you guys. Great job CCP, really great.
CCP; Dictating who can be reliable friends since 2011.
Anymore wonderful changes in store for those of us who fought hard to get some territory, those of us who actually play the game and not some super fail devs who think that because they work at CCP, means they understand the players and what we want, in the near future???
You can take this game and shove it up your ass!
Lately ive been feeling that ccp is saying: gtfo you dont belong here on our tq. To the more "allround" players who dont buy isk and dont want live with concord in empire, not to mention the empire building oriented guys, let the other players destroy our ****.. if they can.. dont do it with "lets rock dis boat" nerf's and its not just the anoms and this (7 days omfg u mad)
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Giselle Garner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:34:00 -
[1092]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
So amongst your raging and whining, you should remember, you all have it easy, things were a lot harder in RMR eve.
RMR? Meh, you suppose that would be easier now with 1000+ fleet battle each gang and the same features that long time ago :P
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:35:00 -
[1093]
Look, I am a nice guy and want to help out. There have been many of you that can not remember what a jump gate looks like so you know what to look for. BEHOLD!... a Jump Gate:
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Abramul
Gallente StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:37:00 -
[1094]
If it's small-gang PVP you're looking to boost, why not modify my earlier suggestion: get rid of fuel for jump bridges, keep 2 per system, allow anyone to jump through them, but keep guns on POSes. This would allow small, fast groups to get deep into hostile territory quickly, at the risk of having a bridge rerouted and having to walk home, or getting ambushed on a JB POS. (Naturally, you'd want to prohibit hostile caps from doing this; as others have mentioned, you may wish to allow blue caps to get into jammed systems through JB or cyno array)
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Statutory Ape
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:38:00 -
[1095]
Edited by: Statutory Ape on 11/05/2011 02:41:00
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Cellistara Seems to be a lot of "Back in my day, ..." going on here. Back in your day things were ****ty, but things should improve over time, not get better then switch back to the ****tiness. It would be like saying ok, the calculator is great, but then switching back to a damn slide rule.
There were a lot of better things back in the day.
With no sanctums or stuff like that people spread out to rat in groups of 3 to 5 in different systems to rat and make money, this spreading out allowed for more small roaming gang pvp to jump some people out on the fringes of their space. There were also dedicated roaming fleets that would patrol space as a defense fleet. We didnt have bridges so we had to have gangs going out and always moving to catch incoming hostiles.
some interesting facts about eve.
before jump bridges and jump freighters, cyno jammers and cyno beacons.
1. BOB, aka IT aka Raiden controlled over 75 systems and kept them well defended. 2. hauling jobs were done in carriers, which back then couldn't hold battleships 3. If someone fielded a mothership or a titan it was an OH **** situation 4. Losing a fleet of 50 battleships was a big deal 5. EvE still existed, people still played, empires came, empires fell. Curse, ASCN, Imperian, Goons, Tri
We still functioned in 0.0, we still had our wars, and it was fun. It was hard, but we still had fun. You got a better sense of accomplishment when your fleet flew 25 jumps to defend a pos tower and successfully did it.
So amongst your raging and whining, you should remember, you all have it easy, things were a lot harder in RMR eve.
BoB/ITwhatever were cheaters and exploiters who got favors from dev's they knew personally + inside knowledge about game mechanics ^^ this is a fact. Bob started to die when lagging a gate with 10k bm's in can's no longer was the1337, but thats all history.. one can only wonder how it would have looked on a level playing field. Bad example bro.. I <3 Partygirls. |
Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:40:00 -
[1096]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk
Originally by: Cellistara Seems to be a lot of "Back in my day, ..." going on here. Back in your day things were ****ty, but things should improve over time, not get better then switch back to the ****tiness. It would be like saying ok, the calculator is great, but then switching back to a damn slide rule.
There were a lot of better things back in the day.
With no sanctums or stuff like that people spread out to rat in groups of 3 to 5 in different systems to rat and make money, this spreading out allowed for more small roaming gang pvp to jump some people out on the fringes of their space. There were also dedicated roaming fleets that would patrol space as a defense fleet. We didnt have bridges so we had to have gangs going out and always moving to catch incoming hostiles.
some interesting facts about eve.
before jump bridges and jump freighters, cyno jammers and cyno beacons.
1. BOB, aka IT aka Raiden controlled over 75 systems and kept them well defended. 2. hauling jobs were done in carriers, which back then couldn't hold battleships 3. If someone fielded a mothership or a titan it was an OH **** situation 4. Losing a fleet of 50 battleships was a big deal 5. EvE still existed, people still played, empires came, empires fell. Curse, ASCN, Imperian, Goons, Tri
We still functioned in 0.0, we still had our wars, and it was fun. It was hard, but we still had fun. You got a better sense of accomplishment when your fleet flew 25 jumps to defend a pos tower and successfully did it.
So amongst your raging and whining, you should remember, you all have it easy, things were a lot harder in RMR eve.
Yes but now we have to deal with the threat of being attacked by fleets with hundreds of supercaps and titans. It doesn't matter how big your escort fleet is for those freighters, a 500 man subcap fleet will lose to 200 supers, all there is to it. Hot dropping superfleets is the only tactic.
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Tonto Auri
Vhero' Multipurpose Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:40:00 -
[1097]
Bring capital ships jump range back to where it originally was, mmkay? EVE is damn small as it is now. People claiming space without having even slightest intention of actually using it. -- Thanks CCP for cu |
Wrayeth
EdgeGamers Drop the Hammer
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:40:00 -
[1098]
-gets out the popcorn-
This is a great thread.
As far as my personal feelings on the jump-bridge limitation, I'm all for it. I found 0.0 a LOT more fun before jump bridges and supercaps made it into the game. (Yes, that's right, newer players: there was a time those didn't exist...and it was awesome.) -Wrayeth --> Insert Useless Signature Here <-- |
Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:43:00 -
[1099]
THIS IS SHAMEFUL WHY AREN'T JBS BEING REMOVED ENTIRELY!!!!!
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Balcor Mirage
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:44:00 -
[1100]
Originally by: The Mittani You know, reading the way people are sperging about 1b/1s about it being the end of the world makes me increasingly annoyed with that position. It's a pretty minor change in perspective.
You shouldn't have complete safety in 0.0; you should learn to be hard, to dodge gankers, to coordinate defense gangs, and die repeatedly until you stop being stupid. In the old days of Syndicate, my people learned how to be hard by dying - over and over and over again - until they learned to not fear death, and either figured out how to play EVE or quit.
Safety is the cause of bloat and J4Gs, which are the death of any serious alliance. 1B/1S allows fast travel and still some convenience, but it also prevents folks from feeling secure and untouchable. You can't just rent a system and mine away in complete safety anymore; you have to learn to be smart, or die. If your alliance can't protect its travelers, or its travelers can't figure out how to watch intel channels and be smart, fix your alliance or find a better one.
Obviously, I think that NPC 0.0 shouldn't be safe either; station services there should be attack-able, I'm increasingly coming to believe.
Goddamnit Mittani, you've missed the point. We've invested in system upgrades based on the rules. Now they change the rules and don't return the investment. If they're going to do this crap, let us get a refund on the system upgrades so we can reconfigure for the new rules. They pulled the same crap with military upgrades but this change comes with a monthly price tag that's time consuming and in some cases hard to fix.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:44:00 -
[1101]
Originally by: Alice Celadon THIS IS SHAMEFUL WHY AREN'T JBS BEING REMOVED ENTIRELY!!!!!
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:46:00 -
[1102]
Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Alice Celadon THIS IS SHAMEFUL WHY AREN'T JBS BEING REMOVED ENTIRELY!!!!!
just becoz you guys dont know how to keep nice things.. doesnt mean others cant have them.
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AlexKay
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:50:00 -
[1103]
I really donÆt think this is going to change much of anything from a combat stand point. If you want to fight you are in main system in your combat ship already. If there are not enough of your buddies ready to go you stay dock/POSed up. If you are going to defend space you get in a travel fleet from your base system and move to a larger staging system and join a larger travel fleet. If it is a big regional war you move to a staging system and live out of it for the next month or two. Nothing in this proposal changes this. PL/DRF just took Gem and Vale. They did not have JB once the left their space but they still power projected.
What neufing JB and sanctums do is make isk making in 0.0 a lot harder. At some point it becomes not worth it for a certain % of the player. This is a graduated scale so there will always be someone willing to try making isk in 0.0. ItÆs just a question of the numbers. 17% living in 0.0 today 10% in a month? 5% in six?
There is a lot of comments in here about how great 0.0 was before JB existed and how you made it work. IÆm happy for you and glad you are still playing the game but this does sound a little like the walking to school uphill both ways in the snow comment. How many people where logged in back then? 10k? 20k? What was the population density of 0.0 then? I would guess that is was a lot less then now.
So here is the real question. What is CCPs vision of 0.0? What are the players suppose to be doing with 0.0? If the vision is 0.0 as a battleground where you station you combat alt while you mission in hisec in your mission alt. Then we donÆt need JB or anything like them. Get rid of SOV all together and we can start roaming threw empty space hoping some other roaming fleet is trying to do the same thing. As a bounce, all of us can stop shooting SOV structures for hours on end. If the objective is to let players own and develop space then you are asking the care bears to come out to 0.0 and tame it. Give us the tools to do it and donÆt get mad if we succeed and change the rules on us for our troubles. In the end this is just a game. I would just like to know how I can play it without getting in the way of the Icelandic gods of nuef because you have made it very clear over the last 2 months EVE is your game and you will do whatever you see fit.
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Heavy MG
Paxton Industries -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:53:00 -
[1104]
For god's sakes make cyno generators (and maybe bridges set) for blue access no pw... passwords are ruining the game. Haven't you people ever heard of RSA/DSA authentication????!!! Much safer than passwords.
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Legion RONA Directorate
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Posted - 2011.05.11 02:59:00 -
[1105]
Originally by: Cellistara
Yes but now we have to deal with the threat of being attacked by fleets with hundreds of supercaps and titans. It doesn't matter how big your escort fleet is for those freighters, a 500 man subcap fleet will lose to 200 supers, all there is to it. Hot dropping superfleets is the only tactic.
As i recall fighter bombers got a nerf so they can barely hit battle ships now. People used to fly battle cruisers specifically to shoot at regular fighters. Smart bombs still exist and only require 1 high slot which elminates a lot of those nasty non fighter drones.
Also a titan xL weapons cant this anything smaller than a cap and DD isnt aoe anymore.
People just can't blob with biggest ships anymore just have to start using tactics and adjust fits.
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Ro'Kera
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:00:00 -
[1106]
I think the idea of this change is ultimately OK -- I don't really like it, but I suppose there's something of a valid argument to be made for it, and at the end of the day it's not the end of the world. My problem is that the execution is literally ****.
Soundwave: I think you're a cool guy and all that, but honestly I think your posts in this thread reek of complete horse****. You're trying to defend the indefensible, and I don't know why. I mean, it seems silly and conspiratorial to attribute this to some shadow influence by the DRF, but at the same time I can't help but wonder how much of a coincidence it is that this announcement comes barely 18 hours after the mobilization of the NC and its allies to defend Tribute.
But that's paranoid ranting. It's probably not the case. And even if it was, there's nothing I can do about it, really. That said, I just want you to know that I recently started a new account. It's still in the trial period, but it was going to be my 3rd account and my first real hardcore, dedicated PvP alt to complement my more industry-heavy characters.
I will not be activating that subscription until we get a real, tangible understanding of where CCP hopes to take nullsec, and a reasonably detailed roadmap showing us how you plan to get us there.
I know it's only a few bucks a month, but it's MY $15/month. And you're not getting it until you can prove to me that you deserve it.
/rant off.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:00:00 -
[1107]
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Alice Celadon THIS IS SHAMEFUL WHY AREN'T JBS BEING REMOVED ENTIRELY!!!!!
just becoz you guys dont know how to keep nice things.. doesnt mean others cant have them.
I'm a let you finish, but i can't swim in the sea of your tears ...
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Buzz Hulbreech
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:04:00 -
[1108]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave 0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave A POS where the defender has access to the shields and has exclusive right to bringing in reinforcements through the bridge? No, we'll definately not agree that a gate is as safe as a friendly POS, even without the gun.
I'm getting quite confused about what message you are trying to send out here, some of these statements seem to conflict.
Don't the defending force on their own turf deserve some advantage for the risk/expenditure/time of setting up Sov/infrastructure?
What's wrong with just making the JB an independent neutral structure by a planet...just like a star gate, but with your-elite-corp-banner-on-it.
I'm interested in how Ihubs and excess JBs will be handled, will the upgrades/pos modules just self destruct?
Compared to the vast expenditure of resources I hear are being fielded and exploded in the north, I cannot see how forcing smallgang roaming and gatecamping, while simultaneously destroying the infrastructure that makes vast subcap battles possible is going to improve your "PvP flagship". Which to be honest, is Jita 4-4 if the "ships killed" star map is to be believed.
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Kaji Xeg
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:04:00 -
[1109]
Originally by: ShadowandLight are you seriously brain damaged CCP?
I never chime in on alot of these changes you keep coming up with throughout the years, but this is freaking ******ed.
0.0 space is the "end game" of EVE. The last thing needed is more work to live in 0.0 as it is.
The only way to win at EVE is when you stop logging in. |
Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:06:00 -
[1110]
Also: If you're seeking more PvP, this won't aid it. There are four forms of ship-based PvP: large fleet, small gang, solo, and gatecamps(which transcend fleet size).
Large fleet will be nerfed: not as many people will want to go on ops that reach to enemy space and attack if it takes 50% longer going(lagging) through gates.
Small gang will be nerfed: If an enemy gang is cutting through your space, you won't be able to cut them off if it takes you one and a half to double the jumps to reach an intercept point.
Solo will be largely unaffected.
Gate camps will receive a boon, due to people being funneled through specified areas.
This will lessen 500v500 and 20v20 fights, and increase 5vTechIindustrial fights. If your intent is to make 0.0 more dangerous, you'd do it well with this, but you wouldn't encourage PvP. People aren't going to routinely escort someone's Badger II or Wreathe so someone can get their rat loot to a good station from a good ratting system. And in response no one's going to want to form up a gang to take out a Stiletto, 2 Vagabonds, and a Saber (which all have cloaks) when someone reports they're there, because they'll disappear into the night and everyone will go home disappointed.
In all, this has no tangible benefit to anyone who wants to have more than five to fifteen people in their corporation. All the while causing people who do the thankless job of alliance-level logistics to want to hang themselves with their belts.
It is however humorous that this thread was started by a guy named "Fallout," because that is the end result. =^P
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Terianna Eri
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:09:00 -
[1111]
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk People just can't blob with biggest ships anymore just have to start using tactics and adjust fits.
You're a fcking idiot, the problem is precisely that PEOPLE CAN JUST BLOB WITH, LITERALLY, THE BIGGEST SHIPS
hey CCP what happened to explaining your rationale for the blind, ham-fisted changes you make? does making huge sweeping changes, not explaining them, not listening to feedback, and implementing them in a matter of weeks make you hard or something? ________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Elektrea
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:17:00 -
[1112]
Originally by: Lucas Tigh How about, in addition to these changes:
Make jump bridges discoverable system-wide as the now ubiquitous space widget or as a category in the right click menu in space (or both!!) to all alliance members (or even blues, too).
Provide an option to allow all alliance members (or even blues) to go through jump bridges without the force field password.
Make them actually work like they should and this wouldn't be such a hamfisted patch.
Can't tell if serious, if so please shoot yourself in the face. ----------
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LoRDa RaMOs
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:17:00 -
[1113]
I'm with the logistics guys. Poor guys. Sad to see you ragequit! Twice the JB
Also: -0.9 Nerf SCs 0. Let JBs dissapear altogether 1. Nerf Cynojammers too!!!
Supporting CCP decision. I'm not a hater.
Tip: Make wormholes have a slim chance to collapse randomly while you're at it.
Originally by: CCP HTFU
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Necrophilian
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:29:00 -
[1114]
Clearly CCP is also planning to remove the covert ops cloaking device to compensate for this.
This is not like a speed nerf, or an isk supply nerf, this is more like eliminating warp to zero for nullsec.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Amarr Divine Power. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:44:00 -
[1115]
I'd be all for this if ratting was changed so that PvE fits could be effective in PvP and an AFK cloak nerf. I mean, if the goal is to increase actual fights and not just banal ganking.
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Cernac
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:47:00 -
[1116]
If CCP keeps ****ing around with 0.0 this much be prepared fpr alot of people to give up this game. Its like a witch hunt for 0.0 players. My five accounts may soon dissappear.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:49:00 -
[1117]
"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month.
The second and third changes will go in next month, with the main patch. We will be limiting the number of jumpbridges you can have in a system to one, while upping the fuelbay to 30.000 (3x) to avoid suicide among players who do logistics. We would suggest you start reconfiguring your jumpbridge network as soon as possible."
Okay the first change basically means folks have to drop the cynojammer to move their ships. Okay that might indeed lead to more combat, or at least more dead caps.
Limitation to 1 jumpbridge per system is idiocy and will in no way result in what you want. In fact it will do the opposite. It is much like your anom nerf which in no way led to more combat because you are so out of touch with the game you have no clue and the CSM is principally made up of ex CSM and ex CCP employees meaning they are just as much out of touch as you are. Having multiple JBs in the same system gives more targets in a clustered area to stealth bombers, in fact this isn't a nerf to jbs but a nerf to covert ops.
Improved Fuel bay is a good thing, you've made parts of the game far to tedious than they need to be and this is a move in the right direction.
I'll answer your questions:
* Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
No it cannot support the population in 0.0. It is not possible. Respawn rate and ore distribution is far to low to support the current population. Why do you think they ship low end minerals into 0.0.....its not because they like jumping freighters half a dozen times just to haul trit.
* Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
They don't need to be balanced, if you want folks out of empire you have to make 0.0 self sufficient (beyond just getting skillbooks and bpos).
* Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
The current system is still an improvement over the old system. However there should be more defensive options for defenders and more options for attackers. Minefields come to mind as an example of something, gate guns etc.
* Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
It happens all the time look at the killboards, don't fix what isn't broken. The fact is that the game is geared in such a way that it is natural large groups will bundle together. There is no way to change that without breaking large portions of the game and either making sov useless or unachievable.
* Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
Honestly it doesn't matter how you feel about it, it matters what the players feel. If you want folks in empire to be able to take sov then you'll have to change things such that sov will become almost meaningless. The problem has always been that a 0.0 system cannot support more than a half dozen people at a time, to see the kind of movement and player interaction you want a system must be able to support hundreds simultaneously. That is the only way you'll get the large empires to contract enough (without ****ing off the player base) to allow smaller groups to move in. However keep in mind there is no counter in empire that can be built to supercapitals. To counter the supercarrier you need a superdreadnought or a ship that is very anti drone/fighter/fighter-bomber meaning able to kill multiples in seconds.
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Dark Nephilium
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Posted - 2011.05.11 03:50:00 -
[1118]
Quote: This particular area of space should offer a lot more opportunities than it does today, and thatÆs what weÆll put in.
So you ****ing nerf the sanctums and havens so it is harder for us to make isk and support our pvp in null sec. Then claim that your trying to make null better for us? You are ****ing idiots. Not all of us have access to moon goo and are raking in billions of isk. The little guys who do the actual fighting counted on that income to keep themselves in pvp gear. Maybe if you guys quit flying around jove and actually played the game you might understand how your choices constantly screw everything up.
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Perinol
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:01:00 -
[1119]
Whats the goal of this Nerf ?
According to CCP it's to increase the amount of small gang PVP chances. "That safety is detrimental to interaction, both in terms of meeting friendly and unfriendly players, which is the base of our change" - CCP soundwave
So I take that to mean more fights for small gangs.
In the same paragraph he has this to say "ThatÆs not to say youÆre invincible when using jumpbridges, but if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety"
So If i was in a large alliance with access to decent intel channel, what is going to change ? I'll know if a set of bridges/gates are safe to use. If not I'll send a scout through.
So he's basically admitted the change has failed before he's implemented it.
Nice work CCP. At least when it does very little to large alliances but makes it just that bit harder for new entities in 0.0 you will have your answer in your own blog.
Try spending some time fixing Real issues with real solution an save us the time of reconfiguring JB's for another failed idea.
There are 4 or 5 posts here with Better ideas of how to small gang PvP warfare.
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hannah marie
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:05:00 -
[1120]
ok this is simple enough if ccp dosnt want to get the simple message and seems not to give a **** what the players think who actually pay for this game.
suspend your alt accounts
then see how they respond when they lose thounands of dollars in income lets see if the message is clear for ccp then.
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Hrodgar Ortal
Minmatar Ma'adim Logistics
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:06:00 -
[1121]
"Hey this guy has a broken bone and is hurting..." "ccp-doctor: lets give him an aspirin"
You are dealing with the symptom and not the cause, technetium is the cause and balancing it would take something like one hour with full access to perfect data. (its a fairly simple optimization problem really)
But seems its hard to actually make the correct decission. Of course noone knows your vision of 0.0, it might be the deserted wasteland idea?? for which your recent decissions seem to fit perfectly.
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:07:00 -
[1122]
Thanks for giving us a week's heads up that we have to change our entire ****ing jumpbridge network. Really, astounding work.
Anyone else remember the last time CCP implemented anything in a week? I've never seen them move so fast. Shame that it only happens when they do something even more stupid than their usual standard. Signature locked and removed. Zymurgist |
MezriDax
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:13:00 -
[1123]
So basically you've screwed capital pilots once again. I'm done. My subscription runs out in five days thank G-d. I'm going back to trek. Go screw yourself CCP.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:14:00 -
[1124]
Originally by: Mara Tessidar Thanks for giving us a week's heads up that we have to change our entire ****ing jumpbridge network. Really, astounding work.
Anyone else remember the last time CCP implemented anything in a week? I've never seen them move so fast. Shame that it only happens when they do something even more stupid than their usual standard.
CCP will not stop nerfing nullsec until the Northern Coalition is dead. What they fail to do ingame, they will do with dev tools. Viva RMT corruption!
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RemanDax
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:16:00 -
[1125]
I'm one of Mezri's capital accounts. No more money from this account for CCP anymore either.
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Tayler Derden
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:17:00 -
[1126]
Edited by: Tayler Derden on 11/05/2011 04:18:25
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58 It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
God bless you! -------------------------------------------------------
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:17:00 -
[1127]
For those of you posting with glee about jumpbridges (because you don't own any) it takes 3 to 4 weeks to reroute all that crap. So basically CCP's just given all sov-holding entities with jumpbridges a gigantic middle finger.
Also, I wouldn't necessarily tack it all on the NC's being in full failcascade that CCP moved so fast, although a desire for vengeance after the burning of Band of Developers probably provided some motivation. Signature locked and removed. Zymurgist |
MeMongo
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:18:00 -
[1128]
Does CCP actually think that every single player is into conflict?
"Yea! Let's stir up the dirt and make these players kill one another even more than they already do!" CCP designer takes another pull from his beer. "WOW in space! Yea, that's it!" CCP designer falls from his chair, spilling his beer all over himself.
Geez!
========================================= Contribute to real science. Join the "Eve Online Research Team" at Einstein@Home
Me Mongo! Mongo like rocks! |
Gaeretta
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:20:00 -
[1129]
Oh Look! another capital pilot who WON'T be renewing his subscription. I'm tired of getting screwed by CCP after all the work I put into this pilot. Good bye all. I'm taking up diving.
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Versuvius Marii
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:25:00 -
[1130]
Originally by: MezriDax So basically you've screwed capital pilots once again. I'm done. My subscription runs out in five days thank G-d. I'm going back to trek. Go screw yourself CCP.
Dude, that's a lot of stuff you got. Contract it to me before you leave, kthanx. ============= HERE'S TO ME, HERE'S TO YOU, THE BEST OF FRIENDS, WILL ALWAYS BE! BUT IF WE SHOULD....DISAGREE! TO HELL WITH YOU AND HERE'S TO ME! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! ============= |
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Mathazarn
United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:26:00 -
[1131]
omg, you are actually ****ing morons CCP. Your ideas of making 0.0 more of an attractive place to live and get more of the userbase to live there are so ****ed up its beyond measure. Every change that you have implemented since starting this game as a 0.0 resident I have seen my friends leave 0.0 because of your **** ideas, not stay and invite their Hisec mates. Honestly get your heads out of your asses and do something right for a change, and stop destroying 0.0. Get rid of afk cloaking bull**** for example, instead you nerf 0.0 pve income and now eliminate the ability to circumnavigate around afk griefiers who perma live in our systems.
God help this game as it would appear CCP are just not able to.
signed - dissapointed player. |
Br0wn 0ps
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:26:00 -
[1132]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
This was an ill-timed announcement. You would have been far, far, better off by just announcing the jump-drive-bridge nerf (with a "more to come" statement), and leaving the rest of the bridge nerfs for a complete announcement.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:27:00 -
[1133]
Originally by: Gaeretta Oh Look! another capital pilot who WON'T be renewing his subscription. I'm tired of getting screwed by CCP after all the work I put into this pilot. Good bye all. I'm taking up diving.
Good call. CCP keeps forgetting that people play games for fun, not tedium. At least with diving, some supreme diving power won't decide that in 7 days all boats are going to be removed and that tiger sharks now spawn in swimming pools.
CCP has been using a stick for 3 years at least now rather than the carrot. The last decent content they released was Apocrypha, everything since has been blight and cancer. Everything dies, and so eve forever is just a fantasy. Look on the bright side, at this rate WoD will die in development before it ever has a chance to contaminate the MMO universe.
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Laser Purification
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:29:00 -
[1134]
CCP are terrible at Eve. Though it becomes much clearer when you accept they enjoy trolling their player-base.
Not going to post a meaningful response though, since once they decide something for their own bizarre reasons, no logical response will sway them. The only pleasure is watching them get surprised when their poorly thought out and piecemeal changes have the opposite effect to what they want.
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:30:00 -
[1135]
Originally by: Versuvius Marii Dude, that's a lot of stuff you got. Contract it to me before you leave, kthanx.
Confirming this poster is a complete ****** with his own blog subtitled "EVE's biggest drama queen." Upon reading said blog, the poster comes across as a complete carebear who lives in empire and whose corp has trouble surviving wardecs.
Jesus Christ what are you doing in this thread? Go run another mission.
Signature locked and removed. Zymurgist |
Indy Rider
Amarr Element 115. Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:35:00 -
[1136]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
The last decent content they released was Apocrypha, everything since has been blight and cancer. Look on the bright side, at this rate WoD will die in development before it ever has a chance to contaminate the MMO universe.
Prehaps its for the best, at least EVE wont be around to see the disaster that no doubt will be labled "Dust".
How is the massive war in the north not the flagship of nullsec?
If you want small pathetic gang fights, fix low sec so its not the waste of space it is.
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Fix Lag
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:38:00 -
[1137]
Originally by: Indy Rider massive war in the north
It's really just been DRF and PL burning sov structures since the NC doesn't have enough supers to challenge them. Welcome to Dominion warfare.
Fix Lag! |
Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:41:00 -
[1138]
I don't know which is funnier...
1. The amount of rage. 2. CCP demonstrating once again that they could lose a game of charades to Stevie Wonder.
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Versuvius Marii
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:45:00 -
[1139]
Originally by: Mara Tessidar
Originally by: Versuvius Marii Dude, that's a lot of stuff you got. Contract it to me before you leave, kthanx.
stuff
I'm sorry, I didn't realise this was the realm of the nullbear. The opportunity to harvest the tears here, kinda like how you guys gather them from us highsec guys was just irresistible. Thanks for taking my blog so seriously by the way, and for taking the time to even do some basic homework on me. Forgive me for not hiding behind an alt ============= HERE'S TO ME, HERE'S TO YOU, THE BEST OF FRIENDS, WILL ALWAYS BE! BUT IF WE SHOULD....DISAGREE! TO HELL WITH YOU AND HERE'S TO ME! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! ============= |
Morphiana Jo
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:46:00 -
[1140]
Everyone replying to this ought to include how many accounts they have, and how many they will ice when it goes into effect.
Hows CCP going to fix the market when everyone sells all their crap on they way out of the game, rushing to sell all their crap before the next crippling nerf. So CCP probably will lose several thousand monthly subscribers and they rush to crash the market with all their stuffs for sale. Only benefit I see to all this is maybe that T2 fit T2 ship is going to be half price... Oh and people selling their characters and or ice them until someone pulls their proverbial head out of the sand long enough to know that when the majority of the eve players say its bad Fing idea, its exactly that. But they will continue to ignore the player base trying to generate more GTC sales for themselves. Pretty soon they'll be down to 10,000 players active and laying off their employees because they didn't listen like all the other times before.
Hold your mugs and glasses up high, one legacy MMORPG with the "sandbox" versus the xbox knocked down several notches by the very hands who created it.
There is still time to change your mind CCP, "the choice is yours".
Regards,
MJ
P.S. Everyone replying to this ought to include how many accounts they have, and how many they will ice when it goes into effect.
13 accounts active, post nerf I'll be down to 2. And if the evaluation goes bad from there none.
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NeuroSpike
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:48:00 -
[1141]
I'm new player and with all the nerf's and changes and people complaining good or bad I just cant see me sticking with it. I login set my skills and log out. the only way for us new guys to make isk and push past crap missions and earn our way to battleships is in empire.
People say, Join a large corp, So ya do, And the Sanctum nerf hits, People leave alliance or corp. Members don't login because they tell me that CCP is only interested in burning hulls.
Every time CCP says balance, I keep thinking this, One day were all going to login to eve and there will be just one type of every ship in each category. all 4 races will fly the very same damn ship. all in the name of BALANCE.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:51:00 -
[1142]
Originally by: Morphiana Jo Everyone replying to this ought to include how many accounts they have, and how many they will ice when it goes into effect.
Hows CCP going to fix the market when everyone sells all their crap on they way out of the game, rushing to sell all their crap before the next crippling nerf. So CCP probably will lose several thousand monthly subscribers and they rush to crash the market with all their stuffs for sale. Only benefit I see to all this is maybe that T2 fit T2 ship is going to be half price... Oh and people selling their characters and or ice them until someone pulls their proverbial head out of the sand long enough to know that when the majority of the eve players say its bad Fing idea, its exactly that. But they will continue to ignore the player base trying to generate more GTC sales for themselves. Pretty soon they'll be down to 10,000 players active and laying off their employees because they didn't listen like all the other times before.
Hold your mugs and glasses up high, one legacy MMORPG with the "sandbox" versus the xbox knocked down several notches by the very hands who created it.
There is still time to change your mind CCP, "the choice is yours".
Regards,
MJ
P.S. Everyone replying to this ought to include how many accounts they have, and how many they will ice when it goes into effect.
13 accounts active, post nerf I'll be down to 2. And if the evaluation goes bad from there none.
Going from 8 to 4.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:52:00 -
[1143]
The amount of hemorrhoidal butt-hurt in this thread is astounding. Nulsec is not supposed to be easy or risk-free. If you think it should be, Hello Kitty Online is ----> here. But before you quit Eve, remember to contract me all your stuff and send me your isk. I don't have the time to run 5 accounts, and am therefor not rich in game.
I think these changes will increase the opportunities for nonconsentual PvP. However, CCP still needs to reduce the range of non-black ops jump drives.
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Indy Rider
Amarr Element 115. Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:53:00 -
[1144]
Edited by: Indy Rider on 11/05/2011 04:54:24
Originally by: Fix Lag
Originally by: Indy Rider massive war in the north
It's really just been DRF and PL burning sov structures since the NC doesn't have enough supers to challenge them. Welcome to Dominion warfare.
It is a shame, that instead of an obvious rethink of how nullsec empire warfare is fought with (op) capital ships, we get;
"Hurrr, lets nerf JBs. We promise we'll tell you the rest later".
Considering CCPs track record with "improvements" there is no way I'll take their word for it.
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Daealdric
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:54:00 -
[1145]
I know 0.0 is supposed to be risky. But there is supposed to be a reward to the risk. Whats the reward now, and is the increased risk worth it?
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Enthral
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:54:00 -
[1146]
Edited by: Enthral on 11/05/2011 04:55:01 CCP, you are inventing problems to solve, and being disingenuous about your proposed solutions. Jump bridges make 0.0 more livable, and a good jump bridge network is not only the cornerstone of an alliance's logistics, but also an important strategic target for attackers. The pain of a key jump bridge hub being taken down by attackers can reverberate for weeks, fragmenting territory and demoralizing the defenders.
Why do you want to boil 0.0 alliance warfare down to gate camping, which is arguably the most boring and dreary aspect of PvP in EVE? Why take a system which allows us to create a vibrant and living alliance space, and turn it into difficult to manage fragmented islands of activity?
There is nothing wrong with jump bridges. You're just upset we're not playing the game the way you want us to.
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BetsyAnn Tractorfarmer
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:55:00 -
[1147]
It's really tragic that CCP has no idea what the hell they are doing with the game and what players want. They certainly will continue with this stupid idea that THEIR way to play the game is the CORRECT way. NO! The way that the players want to play it is the correct way. You will never be able to force people to do something they dont want to, and trying to do that will only alienate you more and more from the playerbase! I'm glad that many people are going to leave the game, because this is a bad direction that it's been headed the last year or two and MAYBE, just MAYBE you'll understand that eve is losing what it made it special, being a true sandbox, not the devs sandbox.
They said that they're commited to excellence? That's utter and total bull**** seeing as what changes they make and how astoundingly stupid they are when it comes to these changes. There's no excellence in what you're doing and what you plan to do, there's only idiocy.
If you can't freaking understand that 40 pages of uproar and negative feedback in less than 12h not only on this change but on your stupid ways of changing the game that ultimately MAKE IT WORSE, then you need to be commited and get a psych eval since you fail on so many levels.
This is yet another demonstration that CCP doesn't give a rats ass about the playerbase and what the players want. CCP's excellence is in the crapper and it's most likely NEVER coming back.
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Lojik
Priory of Empire SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 04:56:00 -
[1148]
Quote: ...but if youÆre in an alliance with an intel channel and a semi-decent jumpbridge network, you have a pretty overwhelming degree of safety.
Is that not the whole idea about an alliance?
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Rothana Haldane
Minmatar Multiplex Gaming SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:01:00 -
[1149]
Well I can see already It's no use Arguing with them, They are going to do what they are going to do no matter what we say. they DO NOT CARE ABOUT THIER NUL SEC CUSTOMER BASE! PERIOD! CSM needs to grow a pair though and stand up for what the people voted them in office want...and tell CCCP (ooops a typo) no. this is not going to make it better. but hey I'm just a Nul sec player, so what do I know. I do know that if this does keep up, a lot of people will be leaving the game for something else. So much for the sandbox theory....I'm finding Cat poop in my Sandbox so it's time to leave.
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Versuvius Marii
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:03:00 -
[1150]
Psst guys, CCP don't care. Incarna and DUST are coming out soon and will replace your accounts with other punters. You know I'm right. ============= HERE'S TO ME, HERE'S TO YOU, THE BEST OF FRIENDS, WILL ALWAYS BE! BUT IF WE SHOULD....DISAGREE! TO HELL WITH YOU AND HERE'S TO ME! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! CHUG! ============= |
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DruzidelCastro
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:05:00 -
[1151]
guys i dont make eny money in 0.0 cuz liek my space sux nd i don't want to shoot my 25,000 blue frendses or go newhere else to get better space i think its broekn plz fix
also p.s. going an xtra jump thru a gate after jumpbrigging cuz my titen pilots dont log in is totaly gamebrakeing so plz fix or i quit VOTE WITH UR WALLIT HIT CCP WERE THEY HURT -8 ACOUNTS
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Si'ren
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:07:00 -
[1152]
good changes
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:13:00 -
[1153]
Edited by: Gnulpie on 11/05/2011 05:16:01
Originally by: CCP Soundwave We'll be looking at 0.0 this winter. We're hammering down the principles we'll work by as we speak, and they're being reviewed by the CSM. Once they've had their chance to give feedback in person (later this month), I'll happily post the groundwork for everyone to see.
It would be good if you also consider player feedback from the forums.
Relying onto the CSM too much isn't a good idea. They represent only a very small fraction of the game and most of them see the game from only one perspective.
So, please also listen to the "normal" player feedback!
The JB changes are most certainly a step into the right direction. Please more of this! EVE got already way too small and that has directly to do with jump- and titan bridges. You can move from one end of the universe to the other within a very short time - and that is BAD because it makes EVE small and dull. |
NeoShocker
Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:15:00 -
[1154]
Ok, lets see ...
I know JBs are a bit powerful, I agree of nerfing usability to sub caps (or ships without jump drive technology). I agree to this, but wonder about Jump freighters. I think those too should be allowed to use along with black ops.
I also agree with the fuel cargo increase.
I disagree with one JB limit per system.
I thought JB is a reward for alliances that owned and HELD the system for a long time, which should be a worthwhile investment, not a less useful system i-hub upgrade.
I support all JB changes, except the 2 limit per system. Other 0.0 I changes I recommend are:
1. All wrecks belong to everyone in 0.0. 2. Delayed local (or make it similar to WH). 2a. Add a system upgrade for alliance owners that local can be as normal today. I say sov level 4 or 5 required.
Risk vs reward. 0.0 have tons of risk, so it should reward for system holders, especially when holding said system for months.
I look forward for other possible future 0.0 changes. 0.0 change are needed. ----------------------------------- Peace through power! |
Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:17:00 -
[1155]
Edited by: Major Stallion on 11/05/2011 05:17:24 good to see the bitter is still strong with the power blocs and their pets...keep it coming, these are the best tears we've ever seen in Eve's history
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Erica Serine
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:17:00 -
[1156]
if u apply this change ccp u are going to **** off alot of the ppl that put the money in ur pocket. bad idea.
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:19:00 -
[1157]
It's funny to see the main supporters of this change are PL people. Of course they would support it because it nerfs all other types of 0.0 game play except for the supercap blobs that PL uses. Now their supercap blobs can project far and wide, while conventional defense fleets have twice the jumps with massively increased infrastructure cost to maintain (for every 3 bridges on a network before, you now need a 4th to get the same distance). Funny enough this change was rushed through right as PL/DRF are fighting vs the NC.
Wonder who in CCP is on the DRF payroll?
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SexxxSlave
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:21:00 -
[1158]
Originally by: NeoShocker Risk vs reward. 0.0 have tons of risk, so it should reward for system holders, especially when holding said system for months.
can you show me where on the map this would apply to your elite sov holding alliance? Map
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Sieran
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:23:00 -
[1159]
3 accounts yesterday. By this weekend 1 - if that.
Terrible execution. Have you ever seen an over-officiated sporting event? That's what EVE is going to become - if it isn't there already.
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Achaikos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:25:00 -
[1160]
Better CCP thinks good for what they are going to do as allot of people are already against it!
But i doubt CCP is gonna listen.
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Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:31:00 -
[1161]
More tears please.
0.0 used to have no jump bridges whatsoever and alliances managed fine.
Adapt or die.
HABIT
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Levarr Burton
B0rthole Test Alliance Please Ignore
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:35:00 -
[1162]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin More tears please.
0.0 used to have no jump bridges whatsoever and alliances managed fine.
Adapt or die.
Was that way back when dinosaurs were around and PL had a meaningful amount of Sov? In ur engineering, fixin' ur warp core. |
Guyver Kalithdor
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:35:00 -
[1163]
There is two groups of 0.0 players posting here. There is every 0.0 player that is ****ed about this bull**** change, and there is Pandemic Legion trolling the rest of us. PL holds 1 system and that NOL-M9. (check your eve ingame map) PL was paid and ships bought for by russian botters who not only bot but were caught real money trading..
It's not a big secret... It's the white elephant in the room.. CCP banned a lot of them, still barly scratched the surface.
PL (who BTW has a very large Super capital fleet) will not be affected by this. Not only do they hold no space, but they were given money and super caps by other players breaking all of CCP rules. (Awesome job CCP)
But even PL, if they were being honest and not just trying to troll everyone, would admit this is a bad idea.
I just have one last question for CCP... How much does a mothership cost in out of game real money BTW? What's the average? Like lets say out of the last 100 you know were sold for real money, what was the average price?
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Guyver Kalithdor
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:45:00 -
[1164]
Its also funny to put the names of people posting on this thread into the eve killboard and see if they even pvp at all.
Like Gnulpie with 4 lifetime kills and 9 lifetime losses... And all kills and losses in 0.4 or higher.
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Miso Hawnee
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:46:00 -
[1165]
Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 05:51:00
Originally by: Guyver Kalithdor There is two groups of 0.0 players posting here. There is every 0.0 player that is ****ed about this bull**** change, and there is Pandemic Legion trolling the rest of us. PL holds 1 system and that NOL-M9. (check your eve ingame map) PL was paid and ships bought for by russian botters who not only bot but were caught real money trading..
It's not a big secret... It's the white elephant in the room.. CCP banned a lot of them, still barly scratched the surface.
PL (who BTW has a very large Super capital fleet) will not be affected by this. Not only do they hold no space, but they were given money and super caps by other players breaking all of CCP rules. (Awesome job CCP)
But even PL, if they were being honest and not just trying to troll everyone, would admit this is a bad idea.
I just have one last question for CCP... How much does a mothership cost in out of game real money BTW? What's the average? Like lets say out of the last 100 you know were sold for real money, what was the average price?
Super carrier goes for around 600 USD. Titans go for 2200 or more. All this on a site that had its customer database released into public domain 30 days ago. Yet they are still in operation. Skreegs, what the ****?
|
Feyleaf
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:49:00 -
[1166]
Originally by: Enthral
There is nothing wrong with jump bridges. You're just upset we're not playing the game the way you want us to.
This ^^
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LadyJane Serranova
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:50:00 -
[1167]
Greetings CCP and Other New Eden Citizens;
I have read every post and I am going to throw in my little part. I am sorry to see this type of response get called "up grade or Balance" it's just the opposite. This is just seen as an attempt to break up the large power blocks. IF you wish to continue with these changes, and i'm sure you will, lets make sure the alliance with SOV has control over them, IE can drop some "effective weaponry" make it a control-able thing....
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Blade Wolling
Gallente GrayHorse Enterprises VIOLENCE INC.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:52:00 -
[1168]
One more reason to stay out of Null sec. Create more player interaction? Sure, but only PvP. Friendly player interaction does not occur in Null sec. Go into a system to try to make new friends? No, you get podded instead. Too many players are more interested in ganging up on lesser experienced players than forming new alliances. Blade Wolling |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:53:00 -
[1169]
Why are so many of you opposed to putting forth :effort: in null sec living? You want 100% safety, massive power projection and effort free logistics. Please explain this.
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Joe Space
Pod Liberation Authority
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:53:00 -
[1170]
LOVE THIS THREAD!!
enough tears to last the rest of the year.
and a totally needed and welcome change. n1 ccp.
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Miso Hawnee
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:54:00 -
[1171]
Originally by: Blade Wolling One more reason to stay out of Null sec. Create more player interaction? Sure, but only PvP. Friendly player interaction does not occur in Null sec. Go into a system to try to make new friends? No, you get podded instead. Too many players are more interested in ganging up on lesser experienced players than forming new alliances.
Is somebody from Violence INC complaining about...violence? LOL
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Shurikane
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:57:00 -
[1172]
Quote: Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
Nope, and it's what basically drove me off 0.0.
It wasn't that nullsec was easy. It was that finding trouble was a massive PITA. Roaming ops were four hours of incredible boredom in which we obliterated the odd frigate or two that didn't pay attention, but otherwise any rival gang we encountered, we actively ran away from, or they ran away from us. There wasn't any incentive for two gangs to fight each other unless going for sov.
And even then, going for sov meant that you were in four hours of boredom in a bigger ship since often the opposite alliance didn't find enough people to counter your current fleet, so they just let you do whatever you wanted.
0.0 pretty much meant this:
- Mining/ratting all day
- Participating in the mandatory ice ops
- Resisting the temptation to dock up when the cloaky alt of the week invaded the system
- Idly browsing the Internet only to realize the place has become exactly like the Steam Forums. For the record, this is not a good thing
I don't see the point of going to lawless space if nobody's gonna kill each other there.
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s73v3n2k
Caldari UK Corp -Mostly Harmless-
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:57:00 -
[1173]
Edited by: s73v3n2k on 11/05/2011 06:05:23 Edited by: s73v3n2k on 11/05/2011 06:04:04 CCP soundwave plays the game as roaming griefer and has said this before. The way i see it is he is looking at his playing style and molding the game so suit it.
They are making it harder for the people that control, pay for and work hard to keep 0.0 space so the people who do next to nothing for their gaming experience can have more fun.
How about they do something about small gangs that just log off when they want to avoid fights or things get too hot. Or cloaky gangs that just hide or sit in systems 23/7 to get kills with minimum effort.
If you want to change 0.0 consult those in 0.0. Listen to the people who use the mechanics not the high sec players who have never used them.
Stop making changes on what seems like a whim just to see what happens - The anomalies for example.
If EVE had any decent competition in the games market then I don't think you would have been announcing your 8th birthday this year but most likely the closure of your servers.
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Laser Purification
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:58:00 -
[1174]
Edited by: Laser Purification on 11/05/2011 05:59:16
Originally by: Fix Lag THANKS FOR BALANCING SUPERCAPITALS
ALSO, THANK YOU FOR DECIDING TWO AND A HALF YEARS AFTER DOMINION THAT MAYBE SOVEREIGN NULLSEC NEEDS ANOTHER BUNCH OF ****ING NERFS AND ****-UPS TO GO WITH THAT EXPANSION
I swear to God you people could not suck any more at game designing if you actually tried.
Quoted for extreme truth... doing this as an isolated change is both a bad idea and misses the point.
But since soundwave is basically saying "PVP is more gate ganks" rather than being concerned about actual Sovereignty mechanics I guess it makes warped sense. Though I sort of thought small gang roaming was what low-sec was for.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.05.11 05:58:00 -
[1175]
I'm getting very moist thinking about all the crevices I'm gonna widen in NC space once these changes go through! Been waiting for a long time for these changes!!!! :D :D
ps: I never wear condom for you NC :D
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Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 05:58:00 -
[1176]
Originally by: s73v3n2k CCP soundwave plays the game as roaming griefer and has said this before. The way i see it is he is looking at his playing style and molding the game so suit it.
They are making it harder for the people that control, pay for and work hard to keep 0.0 space so the people who do next to nothing for their gaming experience can have more fun.
How about they do something about small gangs that just log off when they want to avoid fights or things get too hot. Or cloaky gangs that just hide or sit in systems 23/7 to get kills with minimum effort.
I would love it if ships never disappeared from space. Either get to safe harbor or risk death. That would be awesome.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:01:00 -
[1177]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 11/05/2011 06:03:09
Originally by: Guyver Kalithdor There is two groups of 0.0 players posting here. There is every 0.0 player that is ****ed about this bull**** change, and there is Pandemic Legion trolling the rest of us. PL holds 1 system and that NOL-M9. (check your eve ingame map) PL was paid and ships bought for by russian botters who not only bot but were caught real money trading..
It's not a big secret... It's the white elephant in the room.. CCP banned a lot of them, still barly scratched the surface.
PL (who BTW has a very large Super capital fleet) will not be affected by this. Not only do they hold no space, but they were given money and super caps by other players breaking all of CCP rules. (Awesome job CCP)
But even PL, if they were being honest and not just trying to troll everyone, would admit this is a bad idea.
Since most PL makes isk by doing sanctums on NC alts, I can say that PL will be affected as everyone will, also, I'd say that 0.0 is and will be quite profitable otherwise people (including PL) wouldn't bother joining the NC.
Originally by: Blade Wolling One more reason to stay out of Null sec. Create more player interaction? Sure, but only PvP. Friendly player interaction does not occur in Null sec. Go into a system to try to make new friends? No, you get podded instead. Too many players are more interested in ganging up on lesser experienced players than forming new alliances.
Considering the whole of nullsec is composed of three entities all blued up within and occasionally blued up to each other, I find this comment quite insane.
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Lojik
Priory of Empire SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:02:00 -
[1178]
IF this happens, then CPP needs to nerf Titan brigdes as well. Basically, if a system is Cyno jammed, NO CYNO SHOULD BLOODY WELL BE ABLE TO BE LIT!
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PapaTramp
VLADIVOSTOK Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:04:00 -
[1179]
The most dangerous idiot is the initiative idiot. The following logical step is an exit from bridge to randomly choosen system. CCP, dismiss this idiot.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:06:00 -
[1180]
Originally by: Lojik IF this happens, then CPP needs to nerf Titan brigdes as well. Basically, if a system is Cyno jammed, NO CYNO SHOULD BLOODY WELL BE ABLE TO BE LIT!
Are you saying that a titan can bridge people to a cyno jammed system? Or are you getting a little Black Ops butt hurt right now while in your cyno jammed system? If you are saying that a titan can bridge to a cyno jammed system then your a noob and need to go back to empire.
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|
Untelo1
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:10:00 -
[1181]
Don't be fooled by the dumb grunts' complaints and emo rage. This is a good change, but it won't fix 0.0 alone. I agree that 0.0 is too safe right now, and it still will be after this change. But like so many people in this thread have said, the rewards should be proportional to the risks. Big part of nullsec's rewards are in moon goo, which is never seen by the average player. I don't oppose the anomaly change either, with that any sov space could generate loads of isk in NPC bounties. Instead in my opinion the number of valuable systems should be increased and distributed evenly. Same applies to the bottleneck moon goos of course. Obviously a big problem with 0.0 at the moment is the enormous power blocs. Like you, CCP have pointed out, 0.0 should rather be in the hands of many small alliances. But what allows the power blocs to hold their massive empires together? For NC it has been their sheer numbers, but that might not be enough much longer. For DRF it's the ISK from the hundreds of bots running in the Dronelands and as we've seen lately, their supercap blobs. What i think should be done about this all, is find ways to keep those power blocs from forming. A solution, as much as it may be disapproved of, would be to make sov costs exponential to the amount of systems an alliance holds, removal of standings and somehow seriously crippling supercaps. These are quite obviously too dramatic changes for CCP to have balls to make, and only serve as examples.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:16:00 -
[1182]
Quote:
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
This is one of the better ideas Ive read here. Make NPC station services destructible(and repairable) or possible to neutralize for a time.
As for the original threadnaught topic, I don't think this is as big change as people think, having lived in null without bridges or other goods, life doesn't change that much. What changes is that small fleets take longer to reach the fight, meaning less participation in fights. Less small-scale pvp. In large-scale warfare, fleet mobilization is done by titan bridges which is unaffected. Sorry guys, nothing changes much in areas that you hope. Apart that this again makes life harder for the average Joe living in null. Not that much even. Logistics doesnt actually increase much, as same amount of poses are used, they just dont reside in same system anymore.
This change improving pvp? Hah. Some cloaky tengu killing some industrials hauling pos fuel isn't pvp in my opinion. Making defense of space harder, I dont think that has the effect that you think.
What disturbs me is how CCP continues to think that life in null can be made 'better' by nerfs nerfs nerfs and more nerfs. It disturbs me that you give one week of time for alliances to act on this. Does it make you hard, making hundreds of people jump through hoops for you? Do you think this is good customer relationship? Im starting to think that CCP is biased again. Your predictions about how these changes affect null disturb me. I recommend you actually start asking players what they think.
Why don't you nerf highsec for a change, hmm?
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:20:00 -
[1183]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 06:21:34 7 days!!! are you guys all on coke or something?.. most of our logistics team is not.
No point in only 7 days notice unless theres an alternative agenda. you guys have a bad history of dev's with alternative agendas so im not just talking out of my ass.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:21:00 -
[1184]
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Quote:
Let's balance the books a little. If conquerable space has to become even more open to NPC-space based gankers, give us the recourse to hit them back. Let use disable NPC 0.0 station services.
This is one of the better ideas Ive read here. Make NPC station services destructible(and repairable) or possible to neutralize for a time.
I'd be willing to approve of this if it were possible to make PC stations free ports once you break their shield into the first rf cycle, that way people would actually bother to respond before the last timer.
Originally by: Zey Nadar What changes is that small fleets take longer to reach the fight, meaning less participation in fights. Less small-scale pvp
This part of your reasoning is flawed. If a small gang bothered to jump gazillion jumps into your space without jump bridges you have more chance of having a fight if you don't immediately converge with a 100-men home defense gang perfectly fitted to counter the said small gang.
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Louanne Barros
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:22:00 -
[1185]
Huzzah!
One bridge per system sounds pretty reasonable to me.
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Calandari
Retribution. Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:25:00 -
[1186]
Are you kidding me .... who is ccp working with .... sounds like they are in bed with the ruskies .... oooo buddy.
Really ccp has no f-ing clue how the game is played. Hey GM's Jump into a ship and play the freaking game for a day in 0.0. See your handy fubars first hand .... Wow ... I think you guys have hired too many WOW designers. I think you need to fire some and replace them with people that have and IQ above room temp.
I wonder are they planing on losing all of the us, eu and aussie players. With nerfs like this they will be shutting down the game in a matter of months ... due to insuffient funds to operate the servers. Great way to run a business... PAL
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Ribikoka
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:27:00 -
[1187]
Nerf bat = Tweaks ? LOL
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:28:00 -
[1188]
Originally by: Calandari I wonder are they planing on losing all of the us, eu and aussie players. With nerfs like this they will be shutting down the game in a matter of months ... due to insuffient funds to operate the servers. Great way to run a business... PAL
I too would unsubscribe if I had to jump a gate while returning to empire.
On another note, alts just became more valuable, do the math.
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Tito Sajic
Secret Squirrel Readiness Group Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:30:00 -
[1189]
**** this ****
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Falin Whalen
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:32:00 -
[1190]
CCP: "The nerfs to 0.0 will continue, until 0.0 improves."
:condi:
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Calandari
Retribution. Inc. R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:35:00 -
[1191]
oooo i got and idea .... why not roll back the 0.0 to 2006 days .... thats what you are doing.
just make it offical
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Turukamu
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:39:00 -
[1192]
Edited by: Turukamu on 11/05/2011 06:39:06 Having a JB network is highly usefull and while i agree at the moment they are too prolific cutting them down to one per system is messy.
Instead the number of jump bridges an alliance can have should be based on the number of systems they hold sov in. eg you can put up a jump bridge for every three or four systems you hold. That way safer jump bridge routes are still possible but not to the extent they are now where they cover entire regions. People will have to be much more selective about where they put JBs as they will not have an unlimited number to play with.
Seems to me this is aimed directly at the NC and it wouldnt suprise me if in a future patch they changed it so that only members of the alliance owning the JB are able to use it. No more passwords to use other alliance JBs and the NC will crumble.
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Navigator Six
Domination. Legion of The Damned.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:39:00 -
[1193]
Nice job, CCP. I spent a lot of time in 0.0 pre-JBs, and the lawlessness and uncertainty when moving around made life interesting. Glad to see things moving slightly back thataway.
Keep up the good work.
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Falin Whalen
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:42:00 -
[1194]
Originally by: Laser Purification
But since soundwave is basically saying "PVP is more gate ganks" rather than being concerned about actual Sovereignty mechanics I guess it makes warped sense. Though I sort of thought small gang roaming was what low-sec was for.
No, low-sec is just gate ganks too.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:43:00 -
[1195]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/05/2011 06:44:37
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Zey Nadar What changes is that small fleets take longer to reach the fight, meaning less participation in fights. Less small-scale pvp
This part of your reasoning is flawed. If a small gang bothered to jump gazillion jumps into your space without jump bridges you have more chance of having a fight if you don't immediately converge with a 100-men home defense gang perfectly fitted to counter the said small gang.
If that gang is looking for a fight, it will find it. What happens more likely is that it wont find things to shoot until it arrives at a station system where the gang is greatly outnumbered. Then they either retreat or die. (or find out that the enemy is still unwilling to fight). If the gang retreats, the JB change makes pursuing it it harder. All in all, not much pvp happened.
If both sides are willing to fight, fight will happen, jump bridges or no. Im confused as to how jump bridge network somehow changes this. In fact in my opinion it promotes pvp since it allows small roam gangs travel further, faster; before people start to say "I need to log off, got RL to do".
In my previous post I didnt mean roams. I meant fleets that have a specific target in mind. Since JB networks allows fleets to get into the fight faster, WOULDNT THIS IN FACT IMPROVE CHANCES OF FIGHT HAPPENING? Oh thats right, you werent actually looking for a fight. You were looking for a hit-and-run at something. And you can retreat easier now that defensive fleets take longer to reach the fight.
The amount of players on both sides remain unchanged. Just a reminder.
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Khors
El Barco Pirata
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:43:00 -
[1196]
Edited by: Khors on 11/05/2011 06:43:41 I love changes like this, so many tears! (Harden the fu*k up NC, you are over represented in this thread, but then again you are the reason jumpbridges are being nerfed).
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:45:00 -
[1197]
Originally by: Calandari Really ccp has no f-ing clue how the game is played.
pretty sure this change was made BECAUSE of how the game was played. 0.0 Logistics has been a joke the last 4 years..Let's start to see the 0.0 empires actually have to depend on their space and their pilots for more than LOLTECHNETIUM
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:50:00 -
[1198]
Originally by: Major Stallion
pretty sure this change was made BECAUSE of how the game was played. 0.0 Logistics has been a joke the last 4 years..Let's start to see the 0.0 empires actually have to depend on their space and their pilots for more than LOLTECHNETIUM
What would that be? seeing as how they just nerfed the reason to defend it for military sov upgrades.
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Jaymarie Fox Kunis
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:50:00 -
[1199]
Oh Please...for the love of all the Gods...OUR CSM WILL SOLVE EVERYTHING.....LOL....
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 06:55:00 -
[1200]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
The problem is no one believes CCP anymore.
The only part of this I see folks really griping about is the limit of 1 jb per system. 1 is to few. Make it 2 and you would do away with most of the misgivings. The Fuel Change and the no jump capable ships through the jb are fine as is (Though I question why black ops should get an exception and jump freighters aren't since both can use stargates).
You're own words betray that you know these changes will not work as you expect. The disconnect between CCP and the players is pretty vast.
To increase conflict in 0.0 you must increase what a system can supply. The greatest impediment to regular combat is industry. You've created a system where it is easier and more convenient to ship in low end minerals from empire than to mine them because of how you have constructed your systems. A 0.0 system needs five times the ore in a belt that an empire one needs at full status. Without that you don't have enough materials to continually support war. Look at the cycle of great wars, there are several battles even major campaigns, then everyone takes a break for months? Why? Because they have to the human psyche can't take constant combat and the game cannot provide the materials ongoing to provide for constant war, there has to be quiet times to rebuild and refresh.
To aid in helping alliances replenish losses faster you have to improve the industry side in 0.0 and make it self sufficient. You need to possibly consider increased belts size, more belts, more belts from industry index, lowering industry index requirements (way to high right now), increasing the holds of mining ships, increasing extraction rate, increasing tank on mining ships (they need enough tank even the t1 ones so that they can last long enough to call for help).
To make it even viable to jump from empire to 0.0 you have to give them tools to counter the threat of supercarriers. An anti-drone/fighter/fighter-bomber ship can do this. Minelayers can also be used by smaller groups to impede larger ones (but also can be used defensively). You have to open your minds to the hard choices and fixes, something you've not done for almost 3 years because you haven't dedicated sufficient staff to EVE.
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WarriorTooth
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:55:00 -
[1201]
Originally by: Zey Nadar Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/05/2011 06:44:37
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Zey Nadar What changes is that small fleets take longer to reach the fight, meaning less participation in fights. Less small-scale pvp
This part of your reasoning is flawed. If a small gang bothered to jump gazillion jumps into your space without jump bridges you have more chance of having a fight if you don't immediately converge with a 100-men home defense gang perfectly fitted to counter the said small gang.
If that gang is looking for a fight, it will find it. What happens more likely is that it wont find things to shoot until it arrives at a station system where the gang is greatly outnumbered. Then they either retreat or die. (or find out that the enemy is still unwilling to fight). If the gang retreats, the JB change makes pursuing it it harder. All in all, not much pvp happened.
If both sides are willing to fight, fight will happen, jump bridges or no. Im confused as to how jump bridge network somehow changes this. In fact in my opinion it promotes pvp since it allows small roam gangs travel further, faster; before people start to say "I need to log off, got RL to do".
In my previous post I didnt mean roams. I meant fleets that have a specific target in mind. Since JB networks allows fleets to get into the fight faster, WOULDNT THIS IN FACT IMPROVE CHANCES OF FIGHT HAPPENING? Oh thats right, you werent actually looking for a fight. You were looking for a hit-and-run at something. And you can retreat easier now that defensive fleets take longer to reach the fight.
The amount of players on both sides remain unchanged. Just a reminder.
Butthurt much?
It's really simple math, if numbers are even and tend to stay even for a couple of minutes then fight will happen. If one side tends to project large amounts of players from distant systems in minutes then the said time window does not exist and 0.0 roaming is what it is today, ganking ******s.
PL as an entity had to change because of that effect. At some point it became clear that ganking, fishing and sov warfare was the only kind of recourse available to get to shoot things because entities like your own either blob or don't engage, pvp has to be forced upon you.
Slower force projection, means more time for fights to happen before overwhelming blob arrives, but that's not really the way you like to play the game, is it?
Deal wiz it
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Freighter Jjoe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:56:00 -
[1202]
GOOD START!
I think the JB make pvp less frequent. Good start. I enjoy having them ofc but I would rather see them go to get more pvp.
Now: 1. Remove local. ITS TOO FRACKING rediculous to grab ships. Yes we do it, but people just scurry. Ships should have ops in 0.0 to protect each other making nice battles etc. Local allows people to scurry away too easily and just POS up meaning BORING!
Remove local and make people jump in with cov ops etc. Maybe give cov ops an extened range, 18AU scan. Or make a module that increases directionals scan range.
BUT MAKE PEOPLE WORK FOR their security and get battles.
Remove local would also cure people botting and using bot detection devices; at least to a degree.
By making people use cov ops or other scouts, lower SP characters/players would have another very important role. Want to prove your wings? Get in a cov ops and scout; offensively or defensively.
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Tiberius Drake
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:58:00 -
[1203]
Good call CCP.
People went to 0.0 before jump bridges and jump frieghtters and they still will after this slight nerf for JBs.
If you are going to leave 0.0 because of this change you don't deserve to be 0.0 in the first place.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:59:00 -
[1204]
Originally by: WarriorTooth It's really simple math, if numbers are even and tend to stay even for a couple of minutes then fight will happen. If one side tends to project large amounts of players from distant systems in minutes then the said time window does not exist and 0.0 roaming is what it is today, ganking ******s just before the blob arrives.
PL as an entity had to change because of that effect. At some point it became clear that ganking, fishing and sov warfare was the only kind of recourse available to get to shoot things because entities like your own either blob or don't engage, pvp has to be forced upon you.
Slower force projection, means more time for fights to happen before overwhelming blob arrives, but that's not really the way you like to play the game, is it?
Deal wiz it
This
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Tor Anasa
Caldari UK Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:59:00 -
[1205]
Edited by: Tor Anasa on 11/05/2011 07:00:42 If you start messing with infrastructure constantly like this then you should:
- Provide the ability for owners of ihubs to remove upgrades from the ihubs without them being destroyed ( or do you expect everyone to go out and buy more for their restructures ) - Half the cost of the advanced logistic upgrade - Half the maintenance costs for having the upgrade as it only now allows 1 JB in system. I will make things easy for you CCP that is 1 less therefore 50% less than before. 50% = a half and therefore half the benefit should be half the cost right ?
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 06:59:00 -
[1206]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 07:02:02
Originally by: Khors Edited by: Khors on 11/05/2011 06:43:41 I love changes like this, so many tears! (Harden the fu*k up NC, you are over represented in this thread, but then again you are the reason jumpbridges are being nerfed).
Jep.. ccp is never gonna forgive us for the whole killing cheater BoB/Kenzoku/IT Alliance thing :(
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:00:00 -
[1207]
Edited by: FellRaven on 11/05/2011 07:03:04 NO CHANGES UNTIL CURRENT SOV WAR ENDS
THE TIMING OF THIS CHANGE IS APPALLING. A CHANGE OF THIS TYPE IN THE MIDDLE OF A MAJOR SOV WAR IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AS IT HUGELY DISADVANTAGES ONE SIDE ONLY
It's obvious which Alliances have most DEVs are in, we can't win fairly left cheat should be CCPs motto
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:01:00 -
[1208]
Originally by: FellRaven
It's obvious which Alliances have most DEVs are in them, we can't win fairly left cheat should be CCPs motto
Yep. The timing of this does imply fairly heavily of some kind of behind-scenes involvement.
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Freighter Jjoe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:02:00 -
[1209]
Edited by: Freighter Jjoe on 11/05/2011 07:03:29
Originally by: FellRaven NO CHANGES UNTIL CURRENT SOV WAR ENDS
THE TIMING OF THIS CHANGE IS APPALLING. A CHANGE OF THIS TYPE IN THE MIDDLE OF A MAJOR SOV WAR IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AS IT HUGELY DISADVANTAGES ONE SIDE ONLY
It's obvious which Alliances have most DEVs are in them, we can't win fairly left cheat should be CCPs motto
DUDE! Best argumet ever . . . for implementing it NOW!
Seriously, there will always be some sov war going on so consider that.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:03:00 -
[1210]
Originally by: Freighter Jjoe By making people use cov ops or other scouts, lower SP characters/players would have another very important role. Want to prove your wings? Get in a cov ops and scout; offensively or defensively.
Helping spaceship comrads with capitals to do cynos is a good way to make spaceship friends which will in turn haul your stuff while you skill up, I approve.
Once upon a time while I was a month-old nooblet there were no jump bridges around and I used to do this for my older spaceship friends and I didn't have any problems getting my stuff into deep 0.0, because cooperation is what this game is supposed to be about.
Also, CCP, please make it so that JBs fit into freighters but not into jump freighters.
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Tor Anasa
Caldari UK Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:03:00 -
[1211]
Edited by: Tor Anasa on 11/05/2011 07:04:07
Originally by: Lruce Bee
Originally by: Khors Edited by: Khors on 11/05/2011 06:43:41 I love changes like this, so many tears! (Harden the fu*k up NC, you are over represented in this thread, but then again you are the reason jumpbridges are being nerfed).
Jep.. ccp is never gonna forgive us for the whole killing cheater bob/it thing :(
Atleast when tomB held the nerf bat he used it properly and knew what he was doing and the game was far, far more balanced.
CCP Soundwave - Breaking EVE since 2003
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:04:00 -
[1212]
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: FellRaven
It's obvious which Alliances have most DEVs are in them, we can't win fairly left cheat should be CCPs motto
Yep. The timing of this does imply fairly heavily of some kind of behind-scenes involvement.
Sadly ccp has a history of this :(
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:06:00 -
[1213]
Hmmm tears.
This signature is brought to you by Nvidia(tm) |
Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:06:00 -
[1214]
Fellraven, my good KOS buddy of old, don't fret about it, the changes will probably affect DRF a lot more then the NC considering the long logistic routes that they have and you don't.
Besides, CCP can't make or don't make policies based on player internal politics.
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Cerious Gote
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:07:00 -
[1215]
I don't see where all of this anger comes from. In the previous CSM the removal of jump bridges entirely was discussed, appeared in the minutes, and largely met with approval.
This will change the way things happen in 0.0. It's not going to make the huge difference people are bleating about. Its convenient having JB in place, but not essential. If people are getting bored travelling between gates, through empty systems, instead of using jump bridges then maybe they should ask why they need all that space anyway.
0.0 is full of empty space. With the exception of a few perma-camps its possible to move through 0.0 in a frigate pretty much without any problems at all. I've gone on 40 jump trips through hostile space and not seen a soul. The occasional pilot in local but no one on gates etc. This needs to change. The Sanctum nerf did negatively impact this but all it did was remove 2-4 bots from each system, not real occupation. There is a puzzle here that CCP needs to solve and they are probably going to have to make a few more attempts before settling on something that works. Just deal with it.
Obligatory this is a posting alt strapline. My main has lived in 0.0 for a few years. |
Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:08:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Sokratesz Hmmm tears.
you guys are gonna have alot less easy targets soon, and more expensive ships ;)
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Sigras
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:09:00 -
[1217]
I love the tears from all of the null-bears whining about taking away their easy mode BFF defense projection (its not technically force projection because force projection is by definition offense)
Its going to be awesome that you can no longer get from deklein and or cloud ring to vale of the silent in 10 jumps or so.
Also a huge change that you can no longer JB caps into a cyno jammed system safely . . . Not a huge nerf, but anything to make supercaps more vulnerable in transit . . .
Awesome change, though I do wish something would be done with those ridiculous titan bridges.
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Hegbard
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:09:00 -
[1218]
I canceled accounts today, but don't worry about your performance review. 8 of 9 characters were in high sec so the economist guy will conclude that it was unrelated.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:10:00 -
[1219]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Fellraven, my good KOS buddy of old, don't fret about it, the changes will probably affect DRF a lot more then the NC considering the long logistic routes that they have and you don't.
Besides, CCP can't make or don't make policies based on player internal politics.
Right... no one at ccp could ever do something remotely like that im sure. Oh wait..
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WarriorTooth
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:11:00 -
[1220]
Edited by: WarriorTooth on 11/05/2011 07:12:41
Originally by: Cerious Gote I don't see where all of this anger comes from. In the previous CSM the removal of jump bridges entirely was discussed, appeared in the minutes, and largely met with approval.
This will change the way things happen in 0.0. It's not going to make the huge difference people are bleating about. Its convenient having JB in place, but not essential. If people are getting bored travelling between gates, through empty systems, instead of using jump bridges then maybe they should ask why they need all that space anyway.
0.0 is full of empty space. With the exception of a few perma-camps its possible to move through 0.0 in a frigate pretty much without any problems at all. I've gone on 40 jump trips through hostile space and not seen a soul. The occasional pilot in local but no one on gates etc. This needs to change. The Sanctum nerf did negatively impact this but all it did was remove 2-4 bots from each system, not real occupation. There is a puzzle here that CCP needs to solve and they are probably going to have to make a few more attempts before settling on something that works. Just deal with it.
Obligatory this is a posting alt strapline. My main has lived in 0.0 for a few years.
This tbh, the entire NC, DRF, DC and AAASEROL live in 50 or so systems combined and control the entire nullsec.
You'all coul've just settled in Querious and duked it out while leaving the rest of 0.0 untouched for nooblet organizations.
The remaining couple of thousand of nullsec systems is empty because you'll get dropped by local entities that aren't really ALL THAT LOCAL with apalling ease through use of existing infrastructure. This change doesn't really fix that, but is a step in the right direction.
More changes pls
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Pheleus
Habitual Euthanasia
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:12:00 -
[1221]
Originally by: Guyver Kalithdor There is two groups of 0.0 players posting here. There is every 0.0 player that is ****ed about this bull**** change, and there is Pandemic Legion trolling the rest of us. PL holds 1 system and that NOL-M9. (check your eve ingame map) PL was paid and ships bought for by russian botters who not only bot but were caught real money trading..
It's not a big secret... It's the white elephant in the room.. CCP banned a lot of them, still barly scratched the surface.
PL (who BTW has a very large Super capital fleet) will not be affected by this. Not only do they hold no space, but they were given money and super caps by other players breaking all of CCP rules. (Awesome job CCP)
But even PL, if they were being honest and not just trying to troll everyone, would admit this is a bad idea.
I just have one last question for CCP... How much does a mothership cost in out of game real money BTW? What's the average? Like lets say out of the last 100 you know were sold for real money, what was the average price?
I will let you in on a secret mate pl members dont get isk for doing what we do we all have money making nc alts or T2 bpo's or advance reactions in place to pay for our pvp. Isk from the contracts is all given to whomever is current skymarshall.
-------------------------
serious non troll though why does everyone say nerf super capitals??? and how??
Are the cries from the nc sheep just because we use ours and kill yours??
The mass welps ours and yours surely make them enjoyable.
supers die far to often for them to be nerfed. if anything buff them.
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Richard Bong
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:14:00 -
[1222]
can we stop making things more agitating for the average player?
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:14:00 -
[1223]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58 It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
Did you ever try to do pvp in nullsec ?
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Jars Ner
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:14:00 -
[1224]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:15:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: Hegbard I canceled accounts today, but don't worry about your performance review. 8 of 9 characters were in high sec so the economist guy will conclude that it was unrelated.
I bought the "Tiger Juicer" and now have better sex life, true story
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:16:00 -
[1226]
Originally by: Jars Ner
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde this is awesome, good job ccp
notice all the people complaining are in the nc
hey nc, ha ha
Yeah ccp hates us for destroying Band of brothers and IT alliance :(
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VE Vengeance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:16:00 -
[1227]
@CCP Soundwave
Well lets assume we just want to take some easy mode from 0.0 .
I fully understand this intention and as a 0.0 citizen I can understand it. But what you don't seem to get is who got the easy mode at the moment.
It is people like PL sitting in a POS on a titan and ganking the sht out of everything they find, THIS IS EASYMODE. This is risk-less PVP, if you can even call it pvp. It is also easy to sit in a system for hours cloaked doing nothing. It's the gankers who can avoid a fight if they want. So the people LIVING in 0.0 have to accept that they are not safe, while the cloaked alts sit around and can avoid everything.
So your "noone should be safe" is a pretty one-sided one, because the gankers on the titan are totally safe. It's like creating an ego shooter where snipers are permacloaked. Everyone walking around non cloaked getting shot, while you can't do anything about the invisible snipers.
The change comes lonley without needed changes to make it eve. I feel like canceling my accounts till the winter, because there is a significant imbalance at the moment. As 0.0 citizen you are just a target, and it is not possible to hunt down your hunters.
It's not easy mode to live in 0.0, but it's easy mode to gank in 0.0. I've done it myself in bombers/blackops etc in other regions. There is no magic about that. You can just choose your fight.
Your intensions may be good, but you're doing the whole thing in the wrong order. If you want to make changes, do them on both sides of the coin.
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Ophelia Ursus
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:16:00 -
[1228]
Holy crap, RUS really don't mess around when they go to war, do they? Burn their enemies' systems in space, DDOS their forums, and then pull strings to have their JBs nuked without warning.
)) Signature removed. |
ChromeStriker
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:18:00 -
[1229]
Weeeeeeeeeee i like this thread big alliance tears nom nom nom
I like the changes fyi - Nulla Curas |
Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:19:00 -
[1230]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
0.0 wasn't designed for consensual pvp. You are not entitled to a fair fight where everyone lines up 10 ships of equal type to fight like gentlemen. You'll get both ganks, fair fight and massive cap ship fights, but there is no guarantee you can always chose exactly which one. We're not an instanced game that offers battlegrounds and I don't see any reason we should be.
Mini-objectives are a pretty obvious point for us to look at this winter. As I mentioned, we'll be looking at that in the months to come, hopefully we can make a bigger announcement when the CSM have been here. But yes, you're right, we should have mini-objectives, and hopefully we will.
I also didn't say that fighting didn't occur on POSs, but my point is that it's a lot more difficult than just getting a few friends together for a roam. POSs aren't invincible, but having the skillpoints, money, expertise to do it properly far exceeds how accessible open world pvp should be.
Since someone can be ganked easily even in highsec (and without a wardec), I'm quite missing the point here. A jumpbridge network add a layer of mobility to 0.0, not a layer of safety.
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Xavier Ansatsusha
Stargate SG-1 Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:21:00 -
[1231]
Edited by: Xavier Ansatsusha on 11/05/2011 07:25:52 OK I dont need to grace this thread wiht an arguement one way or the other.
Basically why voice yuor opinion or anything, it doesnt matter ccp does what it wants in the best interests of the alliances they have alts in. They all have rediculous ISK and their alliances can break the EULA though others cannot wihtout serious reprocusions.
Frankly the JB thing makes life a bit more of a pita in 0.0 but I will admit, living wiht solid JB networks has kinda made me soft. So that point I could care less.
CCP ignoring all the actually things that are issues with game play working properly etc is what gets me, not to mention they allow bots and macros all over the place as long as its a corp/alliance they have interests in.
Oh and just a little side note for CCP being as they have no sense of how to run a business, NUMBER OF PAID ACCOUNTS STEADILY DECREASING IS A BAD THING. I remember when I started to now, the number of players I see online when i log in. ABout 1.5 yrs later avg number of toons logged in has dropped by about 5k. SOmething to think about.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:22:00 -
[1232]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 11/05/2011 07:22:34 0.0 is a place, or is supposed to be a place by design, of player intrigue and eternal turnmoil where players take arms to defend their homes, sacred turfs etc etc
so let me bold for you the part where you demnostrated lack of understanding of what 0.0 is all about
Originally by: VE Vengeance @CCP Soundwave
Well lets assume we just want to take some easy mode from 0.0 .
I fully understand this intention and as a 0.0 citizen I can understand it. But what you don't seem to get is who got the easy mode at the moment.
you welcome
Also, NEWSFLASH, titans don't bridge into cyno jammed systems and cyno jammers will still be under the sole control of the defending entity. Such titan-dropping gangs can only affect the careless and the lazy.
Tl;dr, it's easy mode only because you make it easy
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Jelek Coro
Erase Rewind
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:22:00 -
[1233]
Excellent idea...
Kindly ignoring the crying and gnashing of teeth made by certain nul sec residents who have most likely forgoten about pre jump bridge (and WTZ) convoys
More targets is always a good thing.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:24:00 -
[1234]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 07:24:18
Originally by: Jelek Coro Excellent idea...
Kindly ignoring the crying and gnashing of teeth made by certain nul sec residents who have most likely forgoten about pre jump bridge (and WTZ) convoys
More targets is always a good thing.
This will get you less targets.. atleast if ccp continues this trend.
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:24:00 -
[1235]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Well, actually killing ppl at a jb pos is easier than killing them at some gate is, mostly because they feel safe at a jb pos and they aren't.
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WarriorTooth
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:24:00 -
[1236]
Edited by: WarriorTooth on 11/05/2011 07:25:01
Originally by: Bren Keilloram Well, actually killing ppl at a jb pos is easier than killing them at some gate is, mostly because they feel safe at a jb pos and they aren't.
Originally by: Bren Keilloram Since someone can be ganked easily even in highsec (and without a wardec), I'm quite missing the point here. A jumpbridge network add a layer of mobility to 0.0, not a layer of safety.
Subtle troll, +rep
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:29:00 -
[1237]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Well, since jb noetworks map are quite public, there isn't any effort needed from a raiding party to track down a jb pos location.
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Mithfindel
Zenko Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:29:00 -
[1238]
Edited by: Mithfindel on 11/05/2011 07:30:00
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
Moving more things to exploration, perhaps? Admitted, having "jackpot" sites appear too often might not be desirable, but having sites with okay amounts of resources with a "jackpot" site appearing every once in a while might be interesting. These would of course need be monitored, and if needed, balanced. Which should be doable, as they're essentially dynamic resources. Some work for the good doctor to play god?
Some random thoughts about resources and small objectives
E: I fail at quoting.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:30:00 -
[1239]
Edited by: Lruce Bee on 11/05/2011 07:31:48
Originally by: Bren Keilloram
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Well, actually killing ppl at a jb pos is easier than killing them at some gate is, mostly because they feel safe at a jb pos and they aren't.
And all we really want is roam around killing in open space.. like Soundwave.. we dont want ganking to be complex affairs at bridges? lol Actually the rest of the game we just threw in to keep some killboard padding around?. :D
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DanMck
Amarr Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:32:00 -
[1240]
Originally by: Sister Bliss A baby-step in the right direction, just like the anomaly weighting with trusec. Unfortunately these are such pitifully small changes in isolation and nowhere near far-reaching enough to make 0.0 the fascinating prospect that is needs to be.
CCP appears to have lost the ability to surprise and delight us and instead wheels out minor tweaks to a broken universe. What eve needs is bold and revolutionary changes.
exactly what i was going to post
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:34:00 -
[1241]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'd still aruge that a defender has much better terms than an attacker. You can still use jumpbridges, you have intel channels, shorter routes to change ships/fittings, shorter routes to getting reinforced.
Well, actually the attackers have the very same intel channels (they only need to figure out the name, you know). And I won't be so sure about the shorter route to get reinforcement parts.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:35:00 -
[1242]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Fellraven, my good KOS buddy of old, don't fret about it, the changes will probably affect DRF a lot more then the NC considering the long logistic routes that they have and you don't.
Besides, CCP can't make or don't make policies based on player internal politics.
Hi Rumple surprised you remember me , in th long-term you are probably right but in the short term the timing is really sus.
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Ron Bacardi
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:36:00 -
[1243]
First I was then I was and then i read the thread and went and now I cant wait to start
Keep up the good work CCP
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:37:00 -
[1244]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hear being the key word. We wont actual see it for two years if ever. Half your content is either undeveloped or underdeveloped.
Now you're just inventing timeframes. You'll see changes this winter.
yeah, as in CCP notorious "soon TM"
still waiting for the mothership here.
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Lruce Bee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:40:00 -
[1245]
7 days.. not acceptable..
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:43:00 -
[1246]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
Well, for the trit part, unless CCP introduce some way to get a lot of it in 0.0 only (something like ten times the amount per hour that you can get in empire), I don't really think more people will harvest it than those that are already mining it now. I'm talking about or a new capital class mining ship with a mining capacity equal of ten times that of the hulk or about a new kind of ore that yeld 10 times more trit than the veldspar.
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SioGyapot HUN
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:44:00 -
[1247]
This is very nice!!!!
PVP back to the game, gate camp back to the game!
CCP Great!!!
\o/
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Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:46:00 -
[1248]
Another short time nerf for those trying to eke out an existence far away from Empire right after the anomaly nerf. And then only some vague statement that there are long term plans but not specifying anything. To me (and I havenÆt yet used a jump bridge ever so I am not really affected mind you)it looks like the only goal of this blog was to make customers disillusioned about the game they pay for.
Please CCP do invest your time into working to add something to the game not taking away things. E.g. what about the promised additional sov-upgrades? What about treaties? What about comets and mining them? What about T3 frigates, what about ... (list goes on).
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Kronossan
Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:47:00 -
[1249]
Originally by: Random Comment from this action I gather that CCP supports the Gate Camp as the preferred method of PvP.
_________________
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:48:00 -
[1250]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: CCP Soundwave No disagreement. Better resource distribution, more pvp goals etc.
Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
For the moon goo part, you know, the oil industry to increase the oil output in real life: 1) found multiple ways for getting more oil out of an oilfield 2) look constantly for more eve unconventional sources of oil
The amount of moon goo that can be estracted from a moon is almost the same since eve went live 8 years ago (with minor changes, for example since 8 years ago we got some new regions). I think it's time to add more resources, not to shift the placement of the current ones (for example).
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:53:00 -
[1251]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Jumpbridges were an original part of the little things, far before we got the go-ahead for a 0.0 review. They're also really time sensitive (need time to reconfigure the networks). It also functions independently, compared to many other larger changes.
Yes, but they bend with all the other stuff so, from this point of view, they aren't an isolated system.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:55:00 -
[1252]
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n4d444
Solar Nexus. -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:56:00 -
[1253]
I guess CCP soundwave plays the game as roaming griefer so he boosts his game?
I understand that you need to nerf the sov holding people to have it easier for you.
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Bren Keilloram
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:57:00 -
[1254]
Originally by: FellRaven Edited by: FellRaven on 11/05/2011 07:03:04 NO CHANGES UNTIL CURRENT SOV WAR ENDS
THE TIMING OF THIS CHANGE IS APPALLING. A CHANGE OF THIS TYPE IN THE MIDDLE OF A MAJOR SOV WAR IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE AS IT HUGELY DISADVANTAGES ONE SIDE ONLY
It's obvious which Alliances have most DEVs are in, we can't win fairly left cheat should be CCPs motto
Well, it's no secret that when a DRF campaign start, the NC will end up fighting both DRF and CCP. It's not the first time.
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oodin
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:58:00 -
[1255]
Excellent changes CCP - good job!
On the whole the way EVE has evolved since I started playing in 2005 has improved greatly. Back then running freighters with escorts out to 0.0 was truly tiresome so the advancements made with Carriers, then jump bridges, then jump freighters has made life a little too safe for nullsec dwellers.
Something as complex as EVE is never going to be easy to balance and I feel a lot of people don't appreciate this. Just as the races are constantly being balanced ( I remember when the Tempest was the only BS worth flying ) I consider these a step in the right direction.
Now make it so that anyone can use a jump bridge and they are not connected to POSes please ( ok maybe a little over balanced to the bad guys but it would be a lot of fun! )
"You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you canÆt please all of the people all of the time" - keep up the good work CCP!
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Bailian Moxtain
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 07:58:00 -
[1256]
great idea ccp, keep it up. And look at all the bears crying
- made in Norway - |
WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:01:00 -
[1257]
I'm liking all the trolls telling us how we use JB's to thwart their nefarious deeds. It would even make me all hot and bothered, were it true.
But that's OK, keep believing that JB's are the only thing stopping you from being 'forced' to stare at gates/undock for 5h strait. I'm sure when these changes do go live and the "omgah nullsec bears" learn to adapt (all be it slowly) to your new (actually old) pro-pvp tactics, you'll eventually realise it wasn't the JB's that ruined small gang PvP. Or you won't, which would be equally unsurprising.
Also loving the stupidly outdated references to "how it use to be" like the landscape is at all the same. :bittervet: more, :bittervet:
On the bright side I guess, I now have a semi-decent excuse to install a Jump Clone into a Rorq. Yay? ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Waarph
Kernel of War Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:02:00 -
[1258]
Edited by: Waarph on 11/05/2011 08:05:25 In my humble opinion thoses change are ok except the one jump bridge per system rule.
Simply because it makes life of single-account and not-yet-capital pilots (by will, time or isk's) in 0.0 extremely difficult.
It does not affect in the slightess way the multi-account capital pilot at all on the other hand.
So the main effect is raising the barrier of entry to 0.0. Once again I may even say.
Now, I have no doubt that shaking up 0.0 is a necessity. Just that your solution with Jump bridge is not the right one. It may be good with other changes but just not on its own. I could see it as a good one if there are more tiny npc 0.0 spread out everywhere, like those in foutain or delve (because this is the only thing that actually creates pvp, unlilke the rest of the proposals so far)... hint hint hint :)
So , I also feel you should come with a comprehensive plan regarding 0.0 instead of small partial yet 7-days in advance breaking changes. I feel the pain of the logistic dudes setting up posses etc...
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:04:00 -
[1259]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/05/2011 08:05:37 Some things that need clarifying:
the JB change will be in one months time, not in one week. Next week they will remove the jumpcapable ships from being able to use JBs.
Second: this change will increase overhead costs of maintaining JB network, as there will be more systems in which iHub is needed.
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David Hassan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:04:00 -
[1260]
This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::
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Miklas Laces
WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:09:00 -
[1261]
It's a very very small step in the right direction after years of big steps in the wrong direction.
Too little, too late. ________________________________________________ CCP Claw > Sokata has been destroyed for boundary violation Drug Kito > Sokata you'll always be remembered as a noob in history of alliance tourname |
debbie harrio
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:10:00 -
[1262]
Originally by: Lucious Shakiel So, if jump drive capable ships can't use a bridge.....how the hell are we supposed to get these ships in or through a cyno jammed system?
Out of all the tears in this thread, this comment caught my eye as worthy of further ridicule.
If you do not know how to get caps into a cyno jammed system when jump bridges are not available to do so, get back into a rifter.
This change is excellent, good for small gang PVP and makes 0.0 just that little bit more dangerous, competent players will not let it affect them but the supercoalitions with their minion blobs will have to up their game.
Good stuff and if I am honest, not enough.
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Prof Fail
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:10:00 -
[1263]
Why ffs nullsec is getting more and more nerfed by ccp? Dominion introduced alot new features with the aim to attract more people into 0.0 space.
CCP introduced high sovbills and high fees for every upgrade in a certain system.
To compensate ccp ctreated the option to improve the space with juicy upgrades (anomalies, plexes, sites, wormhole stuff). Just a few were really usefull....most were crap...but at least the anoms were a nice addition and made space attractive...made up for the bills.
The big problem is now that ccp removes -step by step- all this nice features. They took away the only good thing dominion brought to us: The anomalies. And now they want to make 0.0 live even more unattractive by removing JB networks and reducing the effectivity of cynojammers.
The only things which remain are obviously the far too high sov and upgrade bills. At the end Dominion ist just a huge moneysink without granting something useful in exchange. Just bills and alot useless upgrade with no real advantage.
What will be the future? Will ccp remove even more features from player owned space? When is it not longer worth to own space? Isnt it alot easier to just base out of NPC space and **** expensive player owned space?
You cant just always nerf nerf nerf nerf without giving something back.
Where ist the candy?
Give us some usefuls upgrades in exchange. There are enough ideas around. upgrades which allow to probe cloakers, gateguns, upgrades which create the chance of officer spawns, even in ****ty space.....etc. etc. CCP ffs give us something in exchange for our bills we have to pay? GIVEEE not REMOVE!
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Dirty Little Secrets
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:18:00 -
[1264]
Originally by: David Hassan
This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::
Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.
Excellent Idea. The only thing better than bear tears is bitter vet tears. Think how much some of the elite will cry if they actually have to log in for more than 2 hours. OMG I actually have to support an infrastructure...I just want to do drive by shootings all day...
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Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:21:00 -
[1265]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
so i take it you are getting rid of the easy mode probing too? also removing the web and missle nerf?
boosting small gang pvp warfare yet everything you change requires blobs
also NC tears (posting with mains and through alts) = best tears
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:25:00 -
[1266]
Originally by: Needa3
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
so i take it you are getting rid of the easy mode probing too? also removing the web and missle nerf?
boosting small gang pvp warfare yet everything you change requires blobs
also NC tears (posting with mains and through alts) = best tears
You must have missed the part about removing unprobable ECCM mechanics. Want a tissue?
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:28:00 -
[1267]
The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.
This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:29:00 -
[1268]
Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 08:34:39 Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 08:30:01
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Balthamel Eval'Raman Still waiting for one good reason why this isn't being deployed in the winter package.
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today. The fact is that a lot of people are concerned with their space being less secure, and having to travel a bit further. Those concerns will still exist this winter when we launch the improvements. Anyway, I'm going to bed. I'll try and get some more answers in tomorrow.
Are you serious? Have you listened to the comments in this thread AT ALL?
Let me make you a summary.
- This change is being rolled out with way too little notice (not a statement on the appropriateness of the change, merely the magnitude of it in relation to the warning time)
- This is the second recent change to 0.0 which has a serious negative impact upon the alliance residents there. Significantly, to the logistics guys who are now tearing their hear out because of the ****player timescale.
- There have been no positive changes to 0.0, no announaced well-defined plans for positive changes to 0.0, no well-voiced ideas for positive changes to 0.0 from CCP. These would give us a context in which to evaluate these changes. If the government said that we're taking roads away, we'd be ****ed. If they said we're taking roads away and replacing them with startrek-style replicators so we don't have to go to supermarkets, we'd probably be a little more receptive to the trade.
- You HAVE stated that a big overhaul, when these things will be considered, is coming. But you (for a reason you've thusfar staggeringly failed to communicate) decided to jump the gun, and go about making changes right now, in isolation, without any of the other improvements and nerfs, without any time for the ramifications of the changes to be considered.
- Even taking you at your word that 0.0 is going to get a complete overhaul, we have to live with this JB nerf and sanctum nerf mess for 6-7 months (at least) without any of the positive changes for no reason. There is no reason to roll out this change now. It's not urgent. It doesn't need to be deployed now. The game isn't going to break between now and then. It's not going to make the servers explode. Why are you ****ing the game for 6-7 months and then supposedly fixing it?! It's absolutely bizarre.
- Other aspects of 0.0 which are already unbalanced, such as the preponderance of capitals and supercaptials, are significantly buffed by this change.
- There are ideas within this thread which deserve to be pondered more closely. For example, if this change is about creating more combat then increase the range of JBs slightly so that we can have choke points AND not have the average member suffering from increased transit times.
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'm not at all convinced anything would be different. I understand the wish for 0.0 improvements, but this change would still have as polarizing down the road as it is today.
Honestly? You don't think a beating and a cookie would go down better than beating after beating? The only way that your argument holds water is if there's going to be no upside. That you're just planning on ****ing 0.0, so the context of wider changes (in which we might evaluate this JB change) is that the wider changes are ****player as well.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:29:00 -
[1269]
Originally by: JC Anderson The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.
This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.
We did fine without tech 3 ships and fighterbombers also. Those should be removed as well.
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Cpt Tunguska
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:37:00 -
[1270]
I read the devblog and just loled about it...Big time CCP, you dont know your own game.
Dear CCP,
if youre truly concerned about "power projection" (I love this term) you should better remove supercaps. Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.
Just look at alliances like white noise and pandemic legion. They just form their 100+ supercap blob and can burn down whole regions just from one npc station system, which is 2 regions away.
Supercapblobs, which need no movement effords, no logistics, no haven while outperforming every subcapital fleet are the only totally imbalanced tools of "power projection". But well you consider some jbs as thread....
CCP lern your game kkthx.
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Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:38:00 -
[1271]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: JC Anderson The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.
This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.
We did fine without tech 3 ships and fighterbombers also. Those should be removed as well.
you butt hurt? seems like it ...BTW use a main to post with
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:39:00 -
[1272]
Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 08:39:17
Originally by: Needa3
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: JC Anderson The sky must be falling, because for once I actually agree with members of pl.
This is a good change, and in all honesty I didn't even like back when you implented jb's in the first place. Years ago we did fine without them.
We did fine without tech 3 ships and fighterbombers also. Those should be removed as well.
you butt hurt? seems like it ...BTW use a main to post with
Why so you can rainbow camp my home. No thanks, I'll heckle you anonymously.
(this alt has 3 ECCM fit)
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:43:00 -
[1273]
Quote: So, if jump drive capable ships can't use a bridge.....how the hell are we supposed to get these ships in or through a cyno jammed system?
'Why does this sword cut both ways?'
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:44:00 -
[1274]
CCP should do these devblogs every couple of months just for the sweet delicious tears. Never stop :carebear: crying.
JB changes were surprisingly small, had hoped for more serious nerf.
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Don Kartel
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:50:00 -
[1275]
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 19:18:18
Originally by: ArmyOfMe JB MAP
This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh
You should be using this map instead. Much better:
http://nc-jb-map.appspot.com/
What makes me laugh is you guys are posting this but without a doubt your not thinking about the amount of man hours that goes into maintaining that infrastructure. Then you have the maintenance costs of all these systems with jump bridges.
What also makes me laugh is NC/DC took advantage of the tools CCP gave them and used them to their full potential and no one can critisize that. They have done themselves proud by showing what can be accomplished when alliances work together to build a safe enviroment for their player base but at the same time maintaining the stature that got them there in the first place. Too many alliances have tried the same before and failed because they become weak.
I see alot of Anti-NC/DC alliances posting here and saying this is a good idea. The main reason is because this nerf will give them a massive advatage in their current campaign in the north and i feel CCP will be very foolish to deploy thses changes at the moment.
CCP Soundwave needs to get off his high horse and look at all playing styles and not juts his own because himself and the rest of the design team are currently destroying this game.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:50:00 -
[1276]
Originally by: Needa3 so i take it you are getting rid of the easy mode probing too? also removing the web and missle nerf?
boosting small gang pvp warfare yet everything you change requires blobs
also NC tears (posting with mains and through alts) = best tears
I like how you gloat over 'NC Tears' while simultaneously giving a sneak preview of the crying we can expect from yourselves shortly when the risk-free un-probeable Mach is consigned to the scrapheap of history where it belongs
-----------------
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:51:00 -
[1277]
Everyone just think for a second, is common knowledge that nullsec is safer then highsec, this is huge problem. Nullsec, Null Security, No Existent Security, Void Security, Zero Security, Nada Security, Rien Security whatever you call it, the only security that should exist in these areas should be provided by players, not by game mechanics, and last time I checked, jump gates are not players.
Also another big problem with jump gates, they make the universe a small place, being in the far outer regions should have a meaning, instant travelling shouldnÆt be possible. It should always be a difficult task to travel in/out o nullsec, with the distance involved and the dangerous around it, players should have to plan convoys for logistics; fleet travelling would be fun and challenging again.
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Davader
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:52:00 -
[1278]
CCP does very well
So big piece of butthurt from claiming alliances members in this topic! That's fantastic CCP shound't stop in changing JBs, continue nerf JBs and get more butthurt from those lazy 0.0 residents, who used to fly safly by JBs and drop a blob on invading roamings by JBs.
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ANGAL 2000
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:52:00 -
[1279]
Edited by: ANGAL 2000 on 11/05/2011 08:54:49
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I to think ccp need to sort out the RMT nightmare its so hard to get a kil in botting havens like Tenal, Deklein, fountain and the north in general.
I think you need to have a look and see where the real botting is taking place And where is the tec income you have been mining for year may i ask ill take a shoot on RMT.
in full support of the changes thank you ccp for making this game i love more interesting for this old pvper err ganker
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Chi'an
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:55:00 -
[1280]
Edited by: Chi''an on 11/05/2011 08:55:34 another nail in the coffin for eve...
JB is never "safe" to use, but more a faster way of travel. I think this should be the good payoff for having sov, not nerf it so cost for having sov will be higher
This is definately a blog of a gatecamper
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Aequitas Veritas
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:55:00 -
[1281]
Superb change! 5 years ago we used to have one gangs defending our space, one night a week pr corp out patrolling space. Ops to haul minerals and whatnot. Lots of interraction between players in the corp cause to surivive you had to do things together, you couldnt live out there as a solo player. Now its just meh...
Id take it even further and not allow capitals at all to use the bridges incl normal freighters and also reduce reprocessing ability so more mins must be gathered locally instead of Jita import.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 08:55:00 -
[1282]
Originally by: Davader CCP does very well
So big piece of butthurt from claiming alliances members in this topic! That's fantastic CCP shound't stop in changing JBs, continue nerf JBs and get more butthurt from those lazy 0.0 residents, who used to fly safly by JBs and drop a blob on invading roamings by JBs.
We still have titans. Cry havoc dropped on folks just fine without any significant sov holdings.
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:00:00 -
[1283]
Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 09:01:17
Originally by: Phigmeta CCP please listen carefully [...] From now on i am NOT paying with a sub .. from now on i will be using isk to buy plex .. I have allways felt that you guys deserved to get some real money ... but ya know what ..... now its time for me to nerf the sub.
You, good sir, are even more imbecilic then one would expect when reading your posts.
When will you ******ed morons (and there are many in this thread) finally understand that CCP don't give a damn if you pay them 15$ a month directly or pay someone else ISK so they give CCP the 15$.
The fact that you don't understand this is a good explanation why you suck so terribly at playing this game. And it's not even got anything to do with inexperience.. I mean I also sucked when I started out but I was never, ever quite THAT brain-dead ******ed...
Sometimes I really lose all trust in humanity when I read ******ed crap like this... it's just baffling.
CCP: please don't go soft due to all these tears. Basically you're doing the non ******ed people a huge favour by having the ******s die in a fire (in-game) or quit. EVE will be a much better place for it.
Best change CCP have proposed in a very long time. <3
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Gladius Kokotakus
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:03:00 -
[1284]
Originally by: Alissa Solette Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 09:01:17
You, good sir, are even more imbecilic then one would expect when reading your posts.
When will you ******ed morons (and there are many in this thread) finally understand that CCP don't give a damn if you pay them 15$ a month directly or pay someone else ISK so they give CCP the 15$.
The fact that you don't understand this is a good explanation why you suck so terribly at playing this game.
Best change CCP have proposed in a very long time. <3
I would say u suck at math because as i see it 15$ <> 15$+15$.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:06:00 -
[1285]
Originally by: ANGAL 2000 Edited by: ANGAL 2000 on 11/05/2011 08:54:49
Originally by: FellRaven The biggest issue with PvP in 0.0 are bots that warp to safes and cloak when a hostile enters local, roam in RMT space and you'll see what I mean.
Get your priorities sorted
I to think ccp need to sort out the RMT nightmare its so hard to get a kil in botting havens like Tenal, Deklein, fountain and the north in general.
I think you need to have a look and see where the real botting is taking place And where is the tec income you have been mining for year may i ask ill take a shoot on RMT.
in full support of the changes thank you ccp for making this game i love more interesting for this old pvper err ganker
Says the member of an Alliance who's corps have a history of cheating when they can't win fairly and have now allied themselves with the biggest RMTers in the game.
So if you are main enough support delaying these changes until after we crush you.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:09:00 -
[1286]
Where do I make a report to CCP Internal Investigations team?
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Chingy Chang
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:14:00 -
[1287]
UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD UMAD
?????? |
ExhumeToConsume
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:14:00 -
[1288]
Seems CCP has never heard of "Titan bridges", "supercarriers", "staging systems" and "jump clones", which are the key drivers of force projection these days
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:17:00 -
[1289]
Originally by: Gladius Kokotakus I would say u suck at math because as i see it 15$ <> 15$+15$.
There are two ways to pay for EVE:
a) Pay CCP 15$ a month directly via PayPal, CC or whatever
b) Have someone else buy the PLEX for you (and thereby pay CCP 15$ per 30 day PLEX)
In both cases CCP receives 15$ per month and account.
While I agree that 15 != 15+15 I don't see how this is relevant in regards to my above post.
But tbh if I were you I'd login to the game and get started on redesigning that JB network of yours instead of failing at the Intarwebz.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:17:00 -
[1290]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 11/05/2011 09:22:02
Originally by: Gladius Kokotakus
Originally by: Alissa Solette Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 09:01:17
You, good sir, are even more imbecilic then one would expect when reading your posts.
When will you ******ed morons (and there are many in this thread) finally understand that CCP don't give a damn if you pay them 15$ a month directly or pay someone else ISK so they give CCP the 15$.
The fact that you don't understand this is a good explanation why you suck so terribly at playing this game.
Best change CCP have proposed in a very long time. <3
I would say u suck at math because as i see it 15$ <> 15$+15$.
The PLEX people purchase on the market is PLEX that a PLAYER BOUGHT with real money and put up on the market for sale. CCP already received the money from that PLEX before it ever changed hands in the first place.
This is why they essentially come out on top when PLEX in game happens to be destroyed... They still received the money for it, and yet nobody can use it at that point to pay for a sub. Forcing people to end up buying MORE.
I'm getting the impression that you are under the assumption that PLEX is seeded on the market by CCP.
Though there are the recent whispers of CCP sometimes stepping in to manipulate PLEX prices on the market through limited seeding.
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ExhumeToConsume
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:18:00 -
[1291]
What am I saying? I welcome the new age of huge gatecamps with supercapital blob back-up seconds away (aka "small gang" PeeVeePee)!! |
Spark's
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:22:00 -
[1292]
Hmmm, a lot of moaning bears in here. "My navy raven? It's at risk now? Oh noes" Doesn't sound like a big issue tbh. people have to use gates. Lazyness.
PS. have you noticed the amount of NC moaning about this? Dear god, everyone hates you even CCP :P ha
But tbh thinking about this, this means any Alliance with a brain will put the JB's next to each other. I honestly don't think it's a general problem for most people, Unless people have forgotten what a star gate is
Question is, How many alliances/corps/people will leave 0.0. Not many anyway. a few weeks after the change people will have forgotten this and accept the status quo
I do approve of the blog. Good job CCP, put some risk back into 0.0. This might promote solo roaming Woot! Just here, stealing your killz |
Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:23:00 -
[1293]
The only thing fail legion has going for themselves these days is their spy network. Without that and nerfs in their favor they are pathetic.
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Erestas Drake
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:23:00 -
[1294]
Interrupting forum lurking...
Its sad how far away CCP seems to be from the actual day to day business of small and middle sized 0.0 entities. Instead of fixing the larger concerns first and then revisit this topic when the background actually allows a JB "nerf", we have to endure this misguided actionism.
Really CCP, if you want the smaller guys leave 0.0, just say so.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:23:00 -
[1295]
Originally by: Don Kartel
Originally by: Pallidum Treponema Edited by: Pallidum Treponema on 10/05/2011 19:18:18
Originally by: ArmyOfMe JB MAP
This show why jb's had to be nerfed tbfh
You should be using this map instead. Much better:
http://nc-jb-map.appspot.com/
What makes me laugh is you guys are posting this but without a doubt your not thinking about the amount of man hours that goes into maintaining that infrastructure. Then you have the maintenance costs of all these systems with jump bridges.
What also makes me laugh is NC/DC took advantage of the tools CCP gave them and used them to their full potential and no one can critisize that. They have done themselves proud by showing what can be accomplished when alliances work together to build a safe enviroment for their player base but at the same time maintaining the stature that got them there in the first place. Too many alliances have tried the same before and failed because they become weak.
Before Dominion PL utilized aoe dd and dyspro to it's full potential, at some point such behavior convinced CCP to nerf those as it was overpowered.
It's what happens to overutilized overpowered mechanics, they get nerfed.
And tbh, they should be nerfed much harder then this, as far as CCP nerfs go this is the wussiest wussy of all wussy nerfs.
But hey, at least it's something
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:26:00 -
[1296]
Originally by: Flesh Slurper The only thing fail legion has going for themselves these days is their spy network. Without that and nerfs in their favor they are pathetic.
I can confirm this
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Grml Z
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:30:00 -
[1297]
WoW,amazing amount of tears in this thread. Well,was to be expected i guess. Good changes CCP,a step in the right direction.
_____________ I am a NoOb,and i am proud to be one! _____________ i cant speak english |
rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:32:00 -
[1298]
Originally by: Cpt Tunguska I read the devblog and just loled about it...Big time CCP, you dont know your own game.
Dear CCP,
if youre truly concerned about "power projection" (I love this term) you should better remove supercaps. Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.
Just look at alliances like white noise and pandemic legion. They just form their 100+ supercap blob and can burn down whole regions just from one npc station system, which is 2 regions away.
Supercapblobs, which need no movement effords, no logistics, no haven while outperforming every subcapital fleet are the only totally imbalanced tools of "power projection". But well you consider some jbs as thread....
CCP lern your game kkthx.
This. A million times over. If CCP are worried about the 'safety' of 0.0, then Supers are the FIRST thing that should have been looked at for the reasons highlighted here, not JB's. You don't see a JB network deploying a fleet of supercaps.
I just don't get why JB's have been nerfed when there are FAR more important things to look at in 0.0 right now
Originally by: Don Kartel The main reason is because this nerf will give them a massive advatage in their current campaign in the north and i feel CCP will be very foolish to deploy thses changes at the moment.
Timing does seem weird doesn't it? Nerfing something with minimal notice, that's not going to change jack for the attackers against the NC, while the bots still run in their home regions.
The guys in the NC have a reason to be annoyed. They're getting shafted exactly when they're trying to defend their own space.
<insert 'must be an NC alt' comment here>
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:34:00 -
[1299]
I'm not actually against these changes but "meh". The industry buff for 0.0 I do like.
One problem is that CCP is making changes to 0.0 to fast, without proper research and consultation and also because of problems caused by increased ISK in game from RMT/Bots. Others are also guilty but lets be honest, the South was riddled with bots and RMT. The whole DRF/NC was is down to bot banning and the DRF wanting tech moons to replace that as a source of income.
Currently certain southern based coalitions have supercap blobs gained by RMT and Bots. CCP is making changes to 0.0 based on this outside EULA breaking influence on the game. Eventually these supercaps will be blown up and generally disappear from game as bots and RMT is tackled. CCP will then have to reverse some of these 0.0 changes as the economy goes back to what is should be.
We've already seen the anomoly nerf backfire and cause a 0.0 exodus rather than the reverse which was the intention.
These changes only really cause problems to: A)Casual/non hardcore characters. B)Those playing EVE honestly C)Smaller alliances and corps wanting to get into 0.0. D)Single account holders.
These changes won't affect: A) People who have trillions of ISK gained from botting. They'll swap capitals for faction/deadspace fitted T3's and faction battleships. B) Large alliances/coalitions.
CCP, you need to look at 0.0 and rework your long term game plan to make it work, remove the vast amount of ISK that some have without removing the ISK gaining methods of the honest player. You are in danger of alienating long term customers.
I suggest you bring your 0.0 ideas to the table and discuss them with players and accept objective feedback.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:34:00 -
[1300]
I find it amusing how many recent PL members are pining for the good old days back when PL had standards and wouldn't have let them in.
So for those people heres an analogy that you might be able to understand as it affects things you have:
"We (CCP) feel that supercaps and T3 ships need some work, in fact we've already planned some work on them for the Winter. However for reasons we can't really articulate, until then we're going to be removing jump drives from supercaps and only allowing T3 ships to target NPCS"
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:39:00 -
[1301]
Originally by: Mithfindel Edited by: Mithfindel on 11/05/2011 07:30:00
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Liang Does this mean that you might take a look at current moon goo locations and/or T2 production pipelines?
-Liang
Yes, those are most definately prime candidates. Things like trit and datacore supplies, production slots etc.
Moving more things to exploration, perhaps? Admitted, having "jackpot" sites appear too often might not be desirable, but having sites with okay amounts of resources with a "jackpot" site appearing every once in a while might be interesting. These would of course need be monitored, and if needed, balanced. Which should be doable, as they're essentially dynamic resources. Some work for the good doctor to play god?
Some random thoughts about resources and small objectives
E: I fail at quoting.
Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with the state of sig sites, who would definitely drive more people into space. If we were to put some resources into something, I think that would be an ideal candidate.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:40:00 -
[1302]
yeesh, now this thread just doubled in a night lol
Originally by: Celistin
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Celistin The "l33t" pvp corps (lol @ PL) will roam around and pick off random solos because there are less JBs and the people who live there will have a harder time forming a counter fleet and then catching the l33t doodz.
This really looks like less gang vs gang pvp and more 20v2 ganking.
Which ultimately is all the leeters who don't own any space really want. They come out to nullsec, gank a couple miners and ratters and run away by the time a counter fleet is formed. It makes their KB look special but there isn't much actual "pvp" going on.
"fair fights"?
what is this, WoW battlegrounds??
Who ****ing said fair fights? I know how the **** works.
The point is that 90% of the people happy about this change do nothing but roam around looking for solos to make their KB look good. There isn't a whole lot of actual player versus player.
So all this does is make it harder for people who hold sov to defend their space and easier for people who have no sov to get gank kills.
and you know, that's not a bad thing, considering how easy and safe you guys have.
there was a time before JB's where everything worked as well as today, you know. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Trebor Daehdoow
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:41:00 -
[1303]
Originally by: Bloodhands Are you, CCP Soundwave, or any of your colleagues in CCP currently, or in the foreseeable future in the pocket of any of the power players in the Eve Online political landscape?
I can attest that I have seen Soundwave's long-form birth certificate, and it appears to be genuine.
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Mr Rive
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:46:00 -
[1304]
Edited by: Mr Rive on 11/05/2011 09:49:48 Edited by: Mr Rive on 11/05/2011 09:46:30
Originally by: Yeep I find it amusing how many recent PL members are pining for the good old days back when PL had standards and wouldn't have let them in.
So for those people heres an analogy that you might be able to understand as it affects things you have:
"We (CCP) feel that supercaps and T3 ships need some work, in fact we've already planned some work on them for the Winter. However for reasons we can't really articulate, until then we're going to be removing jump drives from supercaps and only allowing T3 ships to target NPCS"
Thats fine we would use armor hacs
You see we 'Deal wiz it'
Then again i dont think the changes will make any difference in the long term, it will just force people to use a modicum of brains to move around. The people against this are just lazy~. It does seem like a useless change though
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Mors Magne
Astral Adventure
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:48:00 -
[1305]
I love the concept of long-term planning!
I'd like long-term plans for walking in stations and hopefully 'exploring in asteroids' eventually!
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InnerDrive
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:48:00 -
[1306]
Edited by: InnerDrive on 11/05/2011 09:53:57 When your saying you want to improve sov mechanics.. How about making it so that we have to fight and "do something" in 5 surrounding systems at the exact same time in order to take a system? This will make it so people have to form smaller groups and create more fighting. (when you first started to talk about how dominion woud work this came up...)
Right now there is way to little that forces fights , important timers are hours/days in between and only at one location so huge blobs get formed.
Making it so manny fights need to happen at the same time will also help to spread out supercap blobs wich will possibly end up getting more of them killed.
As for the changes to the bridges , they are also a buff to supercaps indirectly , your limiting the movement of non capitalships , your forcing people to have less cynojammers online or things become a logistic nightmare and at the same time your making it harder to defend a cynojammer if the defenders cannot bring in triage carriers = all buffs to supercaps
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Teinyhr
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:49:00 -
[1307]
Rabble rabble rabble
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Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:50:00 -
[1308]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with the state of sig sites, who would definitely drive more people into space. If we were to put some resources into something, I think that would be an ideal candidate.
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
Originally by: cpt tunguska Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.
Originally by: David Hassan This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::
Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.
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Killerhound
Caldari Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:50:00 -
[1309]
Many people are moaning that those changes come in handy for the entities attacking the NC, but well we will adapt we will survive and life goes on as it was always.
From the perspective of a Grunt, 0.0 mechanics are clearly favorising large instances instead of smaller ones.
Its quite like playing command and conquer:
1. Build your base (get the Region, claim it, build Network) 2. Build Casern, Factory (POS, Station) 3. Build Superweapon Facility (CSAA) 4. Pump Units at maximum (Blob, blob, blob, ...)
I have 50 Supers you have 20 I own you. You have 80 and you own me.
In fact change is always good, keeps the system dynamic. With enough titans, blackops, blockade runner and gate camps well we just adapt.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:52:00 -
[1310]
Originally by: Bloodhands Are you, CCP Soundwave, or any of your colleagues in CCP currently, or in the foreseeable future in the pocket of any of the power players in the Eve Online political landscape?
Blood We both know Full well they would never admit it but that they are also all flying in either PL, Raiden. or Goons. Only Say Raiden. because its where most of IT/bob went.
Its unfortunate as it truly slants the PoV of the Party that is supposed to be completely unbiased, but truly isn't.
In the near future CCP may see a Signed Web Petition, Stating that a significant number of pilots will turn off auto renew subscription on their accounts if some fair ground is not met. Further more, if no offers are made by the Devs then Several Accounts across eve will go inactive for a short period of time. To show the severity of the current situation.
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:54:00 -
[1311]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 11/05/2011 09:54:53
Originally by: Morphiana Jo Everyone replying to this ought to include how many accounts they have, and how many they will ice when it goes into effect.
Currently zero, but considering re-subbing this account if CCP also reduce cap ship jump ranges and increase jump clone timers.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 09:54:00 -
[1312]
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yeah, I'm not entirely happy with the state of sig sites, who would definitely drive more people into space. If we were to put some resources into something, I think that would be an ideal candidate.
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
Originally by: cpt tunguska Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.
Originally by: David Hassan This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::
Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:00:00 -
[1313]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:01:00 -
[1314]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee I really didn't expect you to answer my trolling with an honest answer... :p
And yet when I was polite enough to give a reasonable answer all you could do was sperge anti-PL hate despite the fact that my answer had nothing to do with them.
Living 4 carrier jumps into deep null with only a couple of corp carriers and no JFs with a hostile Titan equipped enemy next door was easy and profitable, yet moving 1 jump between JF's while having multiple low sec entrances is too much
All I see is that CCP are just raising the bar for living in null above only requiring a pulse, sadly it seems the majority of null residents are short bus specials unable to make the cut.
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Lev Aeris
United Amarr Templar Legion Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:01:00 -
[1315]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
Yes it is an ugly baby. I can see why nobody wants to hold it. Thank you for responding, at least I know you have heard the concerns.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:03:00 -
[1316]
Edited by: Yeep on 11/05/2011 10:03:44
Originally by: Mr Rive
Thats fine we would use armor hacs
You see we 'Deal wiz it'
Being able to work around a change doesn't mean it isn't stupid and poorly thought out, but good job missing the point of my post and spouting memes instead I guess.
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:04:00 -
[1317]
Awesome change, about time!
100% supported!
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:05:00 -
[1318]
Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
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InnerDrive
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:08:00 -
[1319]
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
Yes it is an ugly baby. I can see why nobody wants to hold it. Thank you for responding, at least I know you have heard the concerns.
Thats what i noticed aswell , nobody wants to give a straight answer to what they are going to do about it because its getting very ugly , and the speed at wich people are getting into large unkillable supercap blobs is getting way out of hand way faster than anyone projected happening. This aint over yet alltho 0.0 pvp where in smaller ships than supers mather is soon over if you dont act.
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:08:00 -
[1320]
Edited by: Ravcharas on 11/05/2011 10:08:54
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
This is gonna be you guys changing the prereq for jdc from jdo5 to jdo4, right? Cause I'm done with jdo5 in three days, so it's about due.
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:10:00 -
[1321]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
I have not seen a single person concerned that carriers have an issue with joining supercaps. Nice attempt to dodge the topic of invincible supercap blobs by replacing it with some random side topic.
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Sebastian Hoch
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:11:00 -
[1322]
I could care less that these changes make my space less safe, but what it really means is just more work to maintain space. More work = more time which means in the abstract its more expensive to run an empire. Higher costs drive less demand so I'd expect this to remove people out of 0.0
Let's be real, I, nor anyone else with a brain including PL, is going to take risks with 6-11B in ship and cargo-before or after this nerf. This nerf won't produce more idiots or laziness, it won't mean JF's are easier to hit, it will just be harder to operate in that low risk threshold that is required in moving really expensive ships and cargo. It will make it much riskier for solo ships to move around null sec, so they will just stop making non-essential movements between systems. As such this is a massive blow to the nullsec economy which is already pretty anemic. Stations will be even more island outlets of JF trade traffic from empire. It will be interesting to see how CCP's bi-polar approach to this plays out as it intends to buff low sec industry while they are simultaneously nerfing null sec logistics, which is the foundation of all industry.
What CCP seems to be completely missing is that there has to be a reason/benefit to living in nullsec. I am starting to believe they don't really want people to live here, but it just be a badlands where small nomadic alliances fly around and fight each other for good fights and keep themselves in ships with their high sec, or botting alts. It should be obvious to everyone that, that won't work. PL seems delighted in these changes that nerf empires, but they can't exist themselves without empires to pay them to attack other empires. Careful what you wish for.
Seb
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hawk firebird
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:12:00 -
[1323]
i thinke this is one of the best changes an long over due awsome ccp keep it up, i like it when things turn us side down an you have to addapt
again awsome work
*what you just read was my point of view an not my corps or the big bucket of kr°lleb°lle is*
*siger jeg kr°lleb°lle is er mit skibe en grevling* |
rofflesausage
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:15:00 -
[1324]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection....
But your players are Soundwave, as this is the exact effect it's going to have in relation to subcaps.
At the moment, SuperCaps have an insane amount of power projection. Jump them in through one cyno > Log off ready for action. You talk about jump bridges being too 'safe', yet this is how supers are used in 0.0 currently.
This needs to be looked at if this change goes ahead.
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:15:00 -
[1325]
Originally by: rofflesausage This. A million times over. If CCP are worried about the 'safety' of 0.0, then Supers are the FIRST thing that should have been looked at for the reasons highlighted here, not JB's.
If Supers are so massively strong and safe to use... why exactly are you NC scrubs not using yours? You were using them for Sanctums all the time a few weeks/months ago but now that you have to use them to defend your homes it's suddenly way to dangerous and the overpoweredness suddenly evaporates.
NC scrubs have what? 30-40k players? Think about what kind of super-blob you guys could be fielding if you were not a bunch of cowards lead by even bigger cowards...
So why are you whining about some minor change to JBs when you have a huge super blob at your disposal which are so "safe" according to you?
The problem is this: you're a bunch of timid carebears and DRF/PL/etc. are PVPers. They use supers and you whine a lot about how unfair supers are.
The first step to improving is to admit that fact and then try and be less terrible.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:18:00 -
[1326]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
Did it ever occur to you that there are x skill requirements to participate in a cap fleet for a reason? I mean the person has to be able to jump to the location (that can require a minimum JDC skill level), there might be a need to help provide logistics to subcaps or caps (thus a minimum level in remote repairing), weapon or damage types preferred to counter enemy etc.
So now you want to dictate for us who can and can't be in fleets?
You also realize that a standard carrier will last less than 15seconds against a supercarrier right?
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:19:00 -
[1327]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: rofflesausage This. A million times over. If CCP are worried about the 'safety' of 0.0, then Supers are the FIRST thing that should have been looked at for the reasons highlighted here, not JB's.
If Supers are so massively strong and safe to use... why exactly are you NC scrubs not using yours? You were using them for Sanctums all the time a few weeks/months ago but now that you have to use them to defend your homes it's suddenly way to dangerous and the overpoweredness suddenly evaporates.
NC scrubs have what? 30-40k players? Think about what kind of super-blob you guys could be fielding if you were not a bunch of cowards lead by even bigger cowards...
So why are you whining about some minor change to JBs when you have a huge super blob at your disposal which are so "safe" according to you?
The problem is this: you're a bunch of timid carebears and DRF/PL/etc. are PVPers. They use supers and you whine a lot about how unfair supers are.
The first step to improving is to admit that fact and then try and be less terrible.
DRF pro PVP? Which server are you playing eve on? GG you are out of touch...
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:20:00 -
[1328]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
As opposed to the huge organisational effort required to build and maintain a JB network. So one player training skills for himself trumps a group of players training a group of for the benefit of their alliance. You do know this is sold as a MMO right?
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:23:00 -
[1329]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
Did it ever occur to you that there are x skill requirements to participate in a cap fleet for a reason? I mean the person has to be able to jump to the location (that can require a minimum JDC skill level), there might be a need to help provide logistics to subcaps or caps (thus a minimum level in remote repairing), weapon or damage types preferred to counter enemy etc.
So now you want to dictate for us who can and can't be in fleets?
You also realize that a standard carrier will last less than 15seconds against a supercarrier right?
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
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Prof Fail
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:23:00 -
[1330]
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Originally by: cpt tunguska Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.
Originally by: David Hassan This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::
Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.
QFT
CCP, If power projection is your concern, just remove supercapital armadas. 40 Titan and 160 Supercarrierblobs moving over 2-3 regions and totally dominating them are clearly no.1 problem of an imbalanced power projection. Supers are too strong and far too mobile via cynos. Remove them and leave jb's alone.
JB's play zero role in terms of power projections, since it just moves around subcaps which are not threat anymore.
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Hitomi Fargazer
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:25:00 -
[1331]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
sooo you dont like skill prerequisites for capwarfare so you nerf subcaps? makes perfect sense...
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:26:00 -
[1332]
Originally by: Hitomi Fargazer
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
sooo you dont like skill prerequisites for capwarfare so you nerf subcaps? makes perfect sense...
Two completely unrelated subjects. Someone asked me about caps and I answered.
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Raxum ammared
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:28:00 -
[1333]
this is going to hurt 0.0 if youre want to do it right put them at planetes with no limets of how many in a system
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:29:00 -
[1334]
Originally by: Hitomi Fargazer
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
sooo you dont like skill prerequisites for capwarfare so you nerf subcaps? makes perfect sense...
They are not nerfing subcaps, lol. They are reducing the number of JB in the same system. Not the same. But points for trying to spin it though.
And whats stopping you from using a titans jumpbridge?
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Xenuchrist
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:31:00 -
[1335]
Nom-nom-nom nullbear tears.
-- "In human stupidity, when it is not malicious, there is something very touching, even beautiful... There always is." /Tolstoy |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:31:00 -
[1336]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: El'Niaga
Did it ever occur to you that there are x skill requirements to participate in a cap fleet for a reason? I mean the person has to be able to jump to the location (that can require a minimum JDC skill level), there might be a need to help provide logistics to subcaps or caps (thus a minimum level in remote repairing), weapon or damage types preferred to counter enemy etc.
So now you want to dictate for us who can and can't be in fleets?
You also realize that a standard carrier will last less than 15seconds against a supercarrier right?
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
Well then lets just give everyone level 5 in all skills and make the prices on the online server same as the test server, 100 isk for anything......doesn't exclude anyone, anyone can fly and do anything, etc....
Yes I'm being sarcastic because that would end EVE in 90 days, you can't make things cookie cutter and you can't force players to play as you want them to play, you created a sandbox, respect it by recognizing that some folks put the time and effort into building in game infrastructure, training certain skills etc and others chose not to do so. Don't try to negate the efforts of those that chose to with every patch/expansion or you'll kill the game too. That's what SOE did and you see how well they are doing these days...
Rather than nerfing things look for things that exist in warfare that are missing. In real warfare for every new defense in a war the enemy comes up with a new weapon, and for every new weapon the enemy comes up with a new defense. There is so much unexplored territory. It just requires a greater commitment of staff and resources than nerfing existing gameplay. It's not like you don't have dozens of ship designs you could use from the various contests.
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Sebastian Hoch
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:31:00 -
[1337]
Edited by: Sebastian Hoch on 11/05/2011 10:32:41
Originally by: Hitomi Fargazer
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
sooo you dont like skill prerequisites for capwarfare so you nerf subcaps? makes perfect sense...
I don't agree with this either, but give the guy a break. One, he is engaging in the conversation, where Greyscale just ignored us completely. Second, the dev blog says nothing about force projection, but about it being too safe to move around--not the same thing in my book. These two issues are being handled separately.
Seb
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VonKolroth
Gallente Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:32:00 -
[1338]
What can we do to bring more players to pvp and null sec? Nerf anoms and force them to fly through gates between jump bridges. That will work out. ~
A man with a Domi analyzes every problem in the terms of drones. |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:33:00 -
[1339]
Originally by: Mr Rive
Being able to work around a change doesn't mean it isn't stupid and poorly thought out, but good job missing the point of my post and spouting memes instead I guess.
How is this poorly thought out?
The fact that its presented as part of an (unknown) series of futher changes but nobody can explain why it couldn't be implemented alongside them. Secondly, even the CCP posters in this thread have basically said "It'll totally increase the amount of pvp because of... erm, quick look over there"
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Mitchello
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:37:00 -
[1340]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Hitomi Fargazer
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
sooo you dont like skill prerequisites for capwarfare so you nerf subcaps? makes perfect sense...
Two completely unrelated subjects. Someone asked me about caps and I answered.
If we could throw unrelated subjects together, people might as well be asking here whether we get kittens in Incarna v0v (though I think we really need those but meh).
Anyhow, these are good changes to start with. Not too drastic, not as deep as what will be required, and sure there is a long time between phase one and followup (as required) but it's time. EVE is based on destruction, creation is derivative to that. Different from many other games, but hey, EVE is more than just a game.
EXPERT HOUSING, Caldari State. For all your Incarna Real Estate wishes, wants and desires.
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CCP Soundwave
C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:38:00 -
[1341]
Originally by: Mitchello
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Hitomi Fargazer
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
sooo you dont like skill prerequisites for capwarfare so you nerf subcaps? makes perfect sense...
Two completely unrelated subjects. Someone asked me about caps and I answered.
If we could throw unrelated subjects together, people might as well be asking here whether we get kittens in Incarna v0v (though I think we really need those but meh).
Anyhow, these are good changes to start with. Not too drastic, not as deep as what will be required, and sure there is a long time between phase one and followup (as required) but it's time. EVE is based on destruction, creation is derivative to that. Different from many other games, but hey, EVE is more than just a game.
I hope we have kittens in incarna!
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faddl
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:44:00 -
[1342]
@Soundwave this change will affect the cap movement , and sov mechanism . Basicly u cant cynojam ure stagin system , which is a security bonus which came with the Ally Sov . If u dont have them anymore ure whole Sov security turns against u and ure own Space is a Mousetrap for the owning ally.
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Kasuki Itsu
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:44:00 -
[1343]
The main thing I don't like about this change is that it makes forming up an average gang of 30 - 40 more tedious. Increased travel times mean a longer form up time and possibly less people bothering to come along, and also makes travelling outside of friendly space to fight enemies more of a chore. There is nothing in this change which encourages pvp between small gangs, as gatecampers and griefers who will benefit most from this are not equipped to fight anyone other than solo travellers and won't engage in any decent battle. To make pvp better add more ships into the game, like a 3rd battlecruiser for each race and faction bc's. Or perhaps fix a lot of ships which are broken *cough* gallente *cough*. Give people more tools at their disposal in order to go shoot stuff and add ships which are more suited to roaming instead of making it more difficult to form up a roaming fleet and go find reds.
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Resender
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:46:00 -
[1344]
I've gone through this thread and found the answers of the CCP Devs that bothered to answer absolutely inadequate and hypocritical. Right now its easy to send reinforcements through a jump bridge network with relative few risk and their not happy with this, OK sure I understand but now there expecting us to limit the JB to one per system that's just going to lead to the bot/gorge/merc alliances to have a bigger advantage pushing out the little guys, which were supposed to get a fair ground with dominion (as if it happened).
What's going to happen now during a system invasion: 1) big alliance sends in supercap fleet to lag out system 2)send out a +100 men tengu fleet to gate camp gates in between 2 bridge systems. or in essence turn warfare from skill and tactics to who has the more isk to block the most systems.
Its like we're in a tunnel and the light at the end turns out to be a freight train
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:47:00 -
[1345]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Mitchello
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
If we could throw unrelated subjects together, people might as well be asking here whether we get kittens in Incarna v0v (though I think we really need those but meh).
Anyhow, these are good changes to start with. Not too drastic, not as deep as what will be required, and sure there is a long time between phase one and followup (as required) but it's time. EVE is based on destruction, creation is derivative to that. Different from many other games, but hey, EVE is more than just a game.
I hope we have kittens in incarna!
On Serenity server they simply call them breakfast.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:48:00 -
[1346]
Duke Nukem would say, CCP has balls of steel . Thanks for doing whatÆs right for the game.
Jumpbridges make EvE resemble WoW carebear heaven teleportation system, enough is enough, for God's sake, this is freaking EvE Online!
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Hyperforce99
Gallente Infinite Covenant Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:51:00 -
[1347]
Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 11/05/2011 10:51:32
Quote: Jump Bridges
Passwords for jump bridges will also be removed and access managed through standings. The mechanics for initiating a bridge jump will be changed as well.
Similar to Wormholes, a jump bridge will be limited in the amount of mass a jump bridge will be able to transport. This mass limit will regenerate naturally, or û by adding liquid ozone to a portal reactor û at an vastly accelerated rate. What this means is that everyday logistics will not be hampered, but it will no longer be possible to quickly transport huge fleets across several regions in a matter of minutes. Transporting these fleets will still be possible, but it will be spread out over a longer period of time. This also has the side effect that supercapitals are no longer able to use jump bridges.
To compensate for this, we have extended the range at which the jump bridge can be activated. Yes, this means that you can activate the bridge from sitting inside a POS. This change was made so that you will not be stuck in your freighter outside a jump bridge with no mass limit remaining. The jump bridge now also has a 30 second ôcharge upö timer added before your ship is being sent through.
This, sounds like a much better and easier to adjust idea... It does the same thing for capital ships as it will rapidly use up the mass the jump bridge can use.
It limits massive fleet movements without hurting defensive response or single ship movements.
Its an improvement to the fuel mechanic.
CCP I suggest you take another look at this idea. --------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:51:00 -
[1348]
Originally by: Vaju Katru Duke Nukem would say, CCP has balls of steel . Thanks for doing whatÆs right for the game.
Jumpbridges make EvE resemble WoW carebear heaven teleportation system, enough is enough, for God's sake, this is freaking EvE Online!
It won't help you we'll just build more titans and jb using them.....
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Mitchello
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:51:00 -
[1349]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I hope we have kittens in incarna!
We NEED kittens in Incarna!
Serious again tho, it's a solid first step these changes. Any rage can be compensated with information and communication. Right now folks just remember putting in a lot of effort, being used to the same patterns for a long long time, and they see things that can upset what they perceive as balance. It'll be good to see more information, but I am not sure if waiting till the end of the month (realistically longer than that) is such a good idea. There is something to be said for not just guiding feedback, but also making it work for you.
EXPERT HOUSING, Caldari State. For all your Incarna Real Estate wishes, wants and desires.
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LiMu Bai
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:53:00 -
[1350]
Originally by: Prof Fail
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Originally by: cpt tunguska Big surprise: Power projection is not done by sending useless subcap-fleets through jb highways. It ist done by moving around untouchable, huge supercapblobs. Supers can hold hundrets of thousends fuel isotopes and dont really need alot of supply like ammo (supercarrier need none). One super equals a whole fleet of subcaps while it is very very mobile. One mouseclick can move you through whole regions. Cyno in and smash every enemy...with no effords. You just need to regain some more cap and you can cyno again. Also the huge dps/tank allows you do do things in no-time subcaps would need hours. And cause they dont need any supplies the can be in space and move around forever. If day's work is done they just log off and vanish. Next day they log back in in the party of destruction goes on.
Originally by: David Hassan This is a nice start. Next I think you need to look at Super capital spamming. People move in super fleets, only to log off and disappear from game. No required logistics, no beachheads, just phantom force projection. Please make it so that Ships never disappear from space, and force super cap spammers to maintain the infrastructure for their doomsday weapons. Super capitals are way to easy to use, people fly them like battleships. Holder alts are cheesy, if you want godlike power then you should actually have to put forth some ::effort::
Also, remove the ability for capital ships to use cloaking devices, something that large (especially supers which in the lore bend gravity wells) shouldn't be possible to cloak.
QFT
CCP, If power projection is your concern, just remove supercapital armadas. 40 Titan and 160 Supercarrierblobs moving over 2-3 regions and totally dominating them are clearly no.1 problem of an imbalanced power projection. Supers are too strong and far too mobile via cynos. Remove them and leave jb's alone.
JB's play zero role in terms of power projections, since it just moves around subcaps which are not threat anymore.
I think this whole jb-nerf is a huuuge, indirect buff to supercapital blobs. The movement of sub-caps is heavily impaired, while the jumpdrives of supers can still span whole regions and their ability to store endless amounts of fuel remains unchecked. Not to mention theyre unkillable anyways and **** every subcapfleet of any size.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:54:00 -
[1351]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
All I see is that CCP are just raising the bar for living in null above only requiring a pulse, sadly it seems the majority of null residents are short bus specials unable to make the cut.
I think you miss the point. Not everyone treats EVE like a job. Not everyone makes ISK as the result of RMT and botting (or gets paid by RMT/Botters which applies to PL) which has been an issue in 0.0 and not everyone has multiple accounts.
Granted there is risk vs reward but the reward is being removed and the risk raised because to much ISK is in the system which is the fault of people breaking the EULA. The people who won't be affected by these changes are the former EULA breakers who have so much ISK they'll never need to even consider making any again and those that feed off that.
CCP's changes seem uncoordinated and not fully thought out for the long term, in regards to both casual and hardcore players and the changes to the economy that will happen as ISK is removed from the game and those massive ill gotten supercap fleets slowly disappear and become rare again; like they are supposed to be.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:55:00 -
[1352]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Lev Aeris
Good morning Soundwave. Do you have any thoughts or comments on the posts regarding super capital force projection? I know wasn't part of your Dev blog but I think there are a few well stated posts in here demonstrating why Super Carrier proliferation is the biggest problem in null sec right now.
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
This proves how fail CCP is at understanding their game and properly balancing it. Nerfing subcap movement while allowing supercaps massive projection and minimal downside. The subcaps were already at a disadvantage and now are much worse off.
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
But a bunch of ppl here are.. skill req for being able to join alliance cap fleets is really not a dev's biz? ^^ Im still looking for meaningful ansver to why the extreme short warning on something that should clearly not be a priority for the devs, and is not really an urgent problem.. well now it has become for a bunch of ppl with real lives.. a month would be more sensible imo but my oppinion doesnt matter.. I like to hear yours.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:56:00 -
[1353]
Originally by: Resender I've gone through this thread and found the answers of the CCP Devs that bothered to answer absolutely inadequate and hypocritical. Right now its easy to send reinforcements through a jump bridge network with relative few risk and their not happy with this, OK sure I understand but now there expecting us to limit the JB to one per system that's just going to lead to the bot/gorge/merc alliances to have a bigger advantage pushing out the little guys, which were supposed to get a fair ground with dominion (as if it happened).
What's going to happen now during a system invasion: 1) big alliance sends in supercap fleet to lag out system 2)send out a +100 men tengu fleet to gate camp gates in between 2 bridge systems. or in essence turn warfare from skill and tactics to who has the more isk to block the most systems.
Its like we're in a tunnel and the light at the end turns out to be a freight train
In some respects I feel bad for CCP. They created a game that's so user-driven, they don't understand it anymore.
That, coupled with the fact that their COMMUNICATION is so dreadful, makes stuff like this happen. "Hey, I know, we can change 0.0 mechanics with little-to-no notice, taking little to no customer feedback, and outside of a planned 0.0 change cycle where this could be implemented with plenty of notice, plenty of time to react, plenty of time to consider the consequences. And we won't say why it's so important to do right-the-****-now. And we won't listen to why it might not achieve our stated outcomes. And we won't listen on how to tweak the changes to make achieving those outcomes more likely, or to make the changes less onerous for the average guy."
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Podcat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:56:00 -
[1354]
Edited by: Podcat on 11/05/2011 11:01:49
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I hope we have kittens in incarna!
TAKE MY MONEY. TAKE ALL OF IT.
also the JB changes are a great idea, although I would have preferred a complete removal. I remember how exciting freighter ops used to be back in 2007 when you had everything you owned on the move and a network of scouts trying to guide you through hostile territory
Anyway it should make it a bit harder to move stuff around in complete safety, and give some advantage to roamers where defenders cant encircle them quite as fast by bridging ahead.
vid: Dishonor - combat evolved - Vote prom4csm |
hankey
Minmatar The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:57:00 -
[1355]
WTF CCP?!
I have been building JB network in drone regions in previous years. It's fully looped and effective! Travel time is about 10 minutes from one Drone Region border to another. And what you are doing? You are gonna limit number of JB from 2 to 1.
You know what will happen? 1. We will have to DOUBLE PAYMENTS TO CONCORD FOR JB UPGRADE (make it half cost if you are still going to implement this ****) 2. EVERY SECOND POS should be reinstalled (totally armed JB POS takes 4 hours to offline and about 8 hours to online all modules) 3. Currently JBs are placed on adjacent moons which makes warp between them less than a minute. With additional jump over gate it'll take up to 6 minutes to simply travel from one bridge to another (on big ship like freighter) 4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc... Don't you see dis balance here ???! 5. Logistics people gonna suicide anyways.
You could better implement separate JB password from starbase password and allowed to store it during system changes... instead of improving game you are making stupid nerfs...
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Secondary Primery
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Posted - 2011.05.11 10:59:00 -
[1356]
Nothing I like more than a long time spent getting from A-B, thanks CCP. One of your least thought out plans to date... Any chance you are going to make us do a full circle of the gate before we jump? Or clap our freakin hands ffs...
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StellDust
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:01:00 -
[1357]
in the current game JBs 0.0 is more safe than empire I'm looking forward for these changes
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:03:00 -
[1358]
Originally by: Podcat
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I hope we have kittens in incarna!
TAKE MY MONEY. TAKE ALL OF IT.
also the JB changes are a great idea, although I would have preferred a complete removal. Should make it a bit harder to move stuff around in complete safety, and give some advantage to roamers where defenders cant encircle them quite as fast by bridging ahead.
There is supposed to be advantages to the massive effort put into maintaining infrastructure dude. else we might as well remove sov all together, trust me when i say you guys will have alot fewer ppl to shoot at when all the casual allround players who dont like concord leave the game.
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Podcat
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:04:00 -
[1359]
Originally by: hankey
4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc... Don't you see dis balance here ???!
maybe you shouldnt spread out more than you can defend?
vid: Dishonor - combat evolved - Vote prom4csm |
Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:04:00 -
[1360]
By the way Soundwave, you forgot to address any of the points in my post summarising the main issues raised about the timing, content, and communication of this change.
I'll link it again to make it easy for you.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:05:00 -
[1361]
Originally by: hankey WTF CCP?!
I have been building JB network in drone regions in previous years. It's fully looped and effective! Travel time is about 10 minutes from one Drone Region border to another. And what you are doing? You are gonna limit number of JB from 2 to 1.
You know what will happen? 1. We will have to DOUBLE PAYMENTS TO CONCORD FOR JB UPGRADE (make it half cost if you are still going to implement this ****) 2. EVERY SECOND POS should be reinstalled (totally armed JB POS takes 4 hours to offline and about 8 hours to online all modules) 3. Currently JBs are placed on adjacent moons which makes warp between them less than a minute. With additional jump over gate it'll take up to 6 minutes to simply travel from one bridge to another (on big ship like freighter) 4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc... Don't you see dis balance here ???! 5. Logistics people gonna suicide anyways.
You could better implement separate JB password from starbase password and allowed to store it during system changes... instead of improving game you are making stupid nerfs...
Apparently, you understand why jumpbridges are being nerfed.
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Murkelost
Gallente FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:06:00 -
[1362]
Originally by: ShadowandLight are you seriously brain damaged CCP?
I never chime in on alot of these changes you keep coming up with throughout the years, but this is freaking ******ed.
0.0 space is the "end game" of EVE. The last thing needed is more work to live in 0.0 as it is.
There is no end game
Lololololololololol at all salty tears, very tasty
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Outouchmatralala
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:07:00 -
[1363]
I approve! now 0.0 alliances have to actually lift a finger when using jump bridges for logistics!!!!! and we get a chance to pwn them :))))
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:08:00 -
[1364]
Originally by: El'Niaga
Originally by: Vaju Katru Duke Nukem would say, CCP has balls of steel . Thanks for doing whatÆs right for the game.
Jumpbridges make EvE resemble WoW carebear heaven teleportation system, enough is enough, for God's sake, this is freaking EvE Online!
It won't help you we'll just build more titans and jb using them.....
Lets hope that CCP fix that, in the near future.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:09:00 -
[1365]
Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 11:12:21
Originally by: Murkelost
Originally by: ShadowandLight are you seriously brain damaged CCP?
I never chime in on alot of these changes you keep coming up with throughout the years, but this is freaking ******ed.
0.0 space is the "end game" of EVE. The last thing needed is more work to live in 0.0 as it is.
There is no end game
Lololololololololol at all salty tears, very tasty
Says the guy from an alliance with so many supers it doesn't matter what the **** happens to jump bridges.
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Sacred Klepton
S.A.S Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:09:00 -
[1366]
Sweet change CCP and 'bout time too,
Hugs SK
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LiMu Bai
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:09:00 -
[1367]
Question: How do we improve nullsec and make it more attractive and enjoyable for our paying costumers?
Answer: Yes, lets remove anomalies and lets remove jumpbridges!!! More wasted travel-time, more sov-bills and reduced isk-income will attract alot more ppl^^ This definitly works out
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:11:00 -
[1368]
Originally by: Vaju Katru Everyone just think for a second, is common knowledge that nullsec is safer then highsec, this is huge problem. Nullsec, Null Security, No Existent Security, Void Security, Zero Security, Nada Security, Rien Security whatever you call it, the only security that should exist in these areas should be provided by players, not by game mechanics, and last time I checked, jump gates are not players.
Also another big problem with jump gates, they make the universe a small place, being in the far outer regions should have a meaning, instant travelling shouldnÆt be possible. It should always be a difficult task to travel in/out o nullsec, with the distance involved and the dangerous around it, players should have to plan convoys for logistics; fleet travelling would be fun and challenging again.
for players to create their empire with security or whatever dummy
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Davader
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:11:00 -
[1369]
Originally by: hankey I have been building JB network in drone regions in previous years. It's fully looped and effective! Travel time is about 10 minutes from one Drone Region border to another.
You can get your honourable medal for JBs construction then.
Originally by: hankey
1. We will have to DOUBLE PAYMENTS TO CONCORD FOR JB UPGRADE
Yeap man, less isks will go for RMT and more will go off the system via CONCORD sov. paymends.
Originally by: hankey
2. EVERY SECOND POS should be reinstalled
It's a hard life, man. Nobody makes you to do that - it's your choise to waste 8 hours on POS setting.
Originally by: hankey
3. Currently JBs are placed on adjacent moons which makes warp between them less than a minute. With additional jump over gate it'll take up to 6 minutes to simply travel from one bridge to another (on big ship like freighter)
Yeah! Imagine what would be if you fly on a freighter without those JBs - 20 jumps by common star gates, LOL. Ha-ha!
Originally by: hankey
4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc...
F**K, YEAH!!! Carebears must die in agony
Originally by: hankey
5. Logistics people gonna suicide anyways.
Why not?
In total: I love your butthurt so much That brings me to perfect mood, thanks to CCP!
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:11:00 -
[1370]
Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 11:13:09
Originally by: Miso Hawnee DRF pro PVP? Which server are you playing eve on? GG you are out of touch...
I didn't say they're pro anything but they're definitely out-perfoming you guys at every turn. They also seem to be fielding a lot more supers then you guys... come to think of it perhaps there is some causal relationship between those two statements?
Nah, must be pure luck and devhaxx... can't possibly have anything to do with you guys being cowards and not using the "force projection tools" that you have available to you. Better scream for super nerfs... that will work.
If tears would win wars then NC would have won EVE with this thread alone.
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Alar Tangor
Caldari Decadence.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:13:00 -
[1371]
a pattern emerges... the people who applaud this are mostly empiredwellers and members of entities like PL Noir. and Hydra who are in their nature non space holding mercenaries (whose job just got this much easier now they can prey on everyone wanting to travel 0.0) while every spaceholder cries in anguish (minus the logistics guys who already cut their wrists)
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Muul Udonii
Minmatar Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:14:00 -
[1372]
Removal of jump capable ships' ability to use jump bridges: Not too big a problem; will favour a defender as we can keep our cap ships in a cynojammed system and make it practically impossible to take, as the only ships that can try to kill the cynojammer are subcaps, and we're defending the system with supers. If we need to deploy caps we can drop the cynojammer once the deployment is complete while we move the caps back home, then turn it back on again.
Increase in fuel in JBs: Great news; ours are always running out. Means less logistics needed per week.
One JB per system: means we will have extra JB capacity (units and cost), so more of our sov systems can have them, but it will double the number of jumps the short journeys take, and expose us to gates at least 50% of the time. And of course it will mean the whole JB network will need to be replanned. That's going to be a bit of a pain in the arse for the larger alliances, so the short timeframe is really not very good customer service.
The fact that you are looking at the other stuff to do with 0.0: Great news; sounds like we will get an industry boost, which is nice. And sounds like you are going to fix dominion sov, which is very nice.
Shame you're not doing it all at once as Dominion version 2.0 tho.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:16:00 -
[1373]
Originally by: Davader
Originally by: hankey I have been building JB network in drone regions in previous years. It's fully looped and effective! Travel time is about 10 minutes from one Drone Region border to another.
You can get your honourable medal for JBs construction then.
Originally by: hankey
1. We will have to DOUBLE PAYMENTS TO CONCORD FOR JB UPGRADE
Yeap man, less isks will go for RMT and more will go off the system via CONCORD sov. paymends.
Originally by: hankey
2. EVERY SECOND POS should be reinstalled
It's a hard life, man. Nobody makes you to do that - it's your choise to waste 8 hours on POS setting.
Originally by: hankey
3. Currently JBs are placed on adjacent moons which makes warp between them less than a minute. With additional jump over gate it'll take up to 6 minutes to simply travel from one bridge to another (on big ship like freighter)
Yeah! Imagine what would be if you fly on a freighter without those JBs - 20 jumps by common star gates, LOL. Ha-ha!
Originally by: hankey
4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc...
F**K, YEAH!!! Carebears must die in agony
Originally by: hankey
5. Logistics people gonna suicide anyways.
Why not?
In total: I love your butthurt so much That brings me to perfect mood, thanks to CCP!
you wouldnt be playing if eve had no carebears ;)
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:18:00 -
[1374]
NC`s CSM team painted a line in the sand and CCP crossed it, now NC`s CSM team has a sandy vagina.
0.0 on easy mode will be gone in a few days, deal with it ( and lose some freighters over it ).
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Ryan Starwing
Gallente Cryptonym Sleepers Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:19:00 -
[1375]
Hey CCP 0.0 allaince use titans for force projection, and jb are for logistics and the adverage joe who cant fly a carrier/jf trying to get from point a to point b. So you may want to remove scaps while you are at it to make this an effective nerf.
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Martin Mckenna
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:19:00 -
[1376]
Originally by: hankey
4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc... Don't you see dis balance here ???!
Welcome to EVE? I actually cant believe people think they have the right to travel around 0.0 "unarmed/untanked/slow" lol.
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:20:00 -
[1377]
Originally by: bitters much NC`s CSM team painted a line in the sand and CCP crossed it, now NC`s CSM team has a sandy vagina.
0.0 on easy mode will be gone in a few days, deal with it ( and lose some freighters over it ).
Your post makes no sense, there have been no sandy vag posts from CSM members. ----
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MrCaptAwsm
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:20:00 -
[1378]
The only upside of this change is that half of 0.0 will proceed to Win At EVE and cancel their subs and stop logging in and playing this horrible, horrible game once and for all.
Screw you CCP.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:20:00 -
[1379]
Originally by: Alar Tangor a pattern emerges... the people who applaud this are mostly empiredwellers and members of entities like PL Noir. and Hydra who are in their nature non space holding mercenaries (whose job just got this much easier now they can prey on everyone wanting to travel 0.0) while every spaceholder cries in anguish (minus the logistics guys who already cut their wrists)
Spaceholders and those who aspire to be spaceholders. It's not just about who is there now, it's about who wants to go there in the future. Sanctums got nerfed, so it's harder to make money. Travel's going to get a little bit more dangerous, but mostly much much much more ****ing annoying. 0.0 is significantly less appealing right now. And this is supposed to encourage change? A large number of smaller sov-holding alliances?
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Untouchable Heart
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:22:00 -
[1380]
Edited by: Untouchable Heart on 11/05/2011 11:24:34 Idiotic nerfing again. CCP ruined everything in the game which was fine and fun.
Need Supercaps blob or Capital online? Just yell to friendly developers and they will create an annoying gamestyles, where a mothership stronger than a titan.
Need idiotic sov changes because exBob lost their regions? Just yell to friendly developers and they will create another one which is crap.
Need GM intel ? Just go to Pandemic and you will get it.
Do you wan longer travel at dead systems, fine do it. Do you want to change the defenders chances to fight ? Just do it. Do you want to change the JB structure to dissolve cap kills at bridge ? Fine, do it.
But why ruin the whole game with idiotic nerfs ??? Why so stupid ?
JB nerf coming, Agent nerf coming, low sec and FW nerf coming again and again, with useless changes like the new crap changes.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:23:00 -
[1381]
Originally by: bitters much NC`s CSM team painted a line in the sand and CCP crossed it, now NC`s CSM team has a sandy vagina.
0.0 on easy mode will be gone in a few days, deal with it ( and lose some freighters over it ).
I think most ppl are ****ed over the timeframe dude.. short to no notice on pretty big game changing nerfs and super early notice about wonderful things to come.
ccp is limiting player influence by throwing aroung changes to 0.0 power balance to "rock the boat" or whatever.. if im gonna loose i will rather loose to other players.
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Sovox
Amarr Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:28:00 -
[1382]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
Let me finish this for you sounds real familiar..
Wants everyone to feel heroic and iconic and not be a moister farmer.
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MrCaptAwsm
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:29:00 -
[1383]
Originally by: Svennig
Originally by: Alar Tangor a pattern emerges... the people who applaud this are mostly empiredwellers and members of entities like PL Noir. and Hydra who are in their nature non space holding mercenaries (whose job just got this much easier now they can prey on everyone wanting to travel 0.0) while every spaceholder cries in anguish (minus the logistics guys who already cut their wrists)
Spaceholders and those who aspire to be spaceholders. It's not just about who is there now, it's about who wants to go there in the future. Sanctums got nerfed, so it's harder to make money. Travel's going to get a little bit more dangerous, but mostly much much much more ****ing annoying. 0.0 is significantly less appealing right now. And this is supposed to encourage change? A large number of smaller sov-holding alliances?
Not empty quoting.
CCP logic best logic c/d
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neurocite
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:30:00 -
[1384]
I don't think these changes would hurt quite as much if the long promised changes to 0.0 dependency on high sec industry where implemented first. Logistics for individuals will become so annoying that less people will bother and more will just live in high/low sec and go to 0.0 for pvp. I'm sure some will think that's great but i hope u think it through and see that your now target rich environment will become very empty, and far from encouraging small gang vs small gang this just increases gate camp style pvp which is very dull.
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Sedilis
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:32:00 -
[1385]
Originally by: hankey WTF CCP?! It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc.
Mission accomplished
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Reina Solar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:34:00 -
[1386]
once again you show you know **** all about your game and customers
And if you have more off these idea I don't think eve will last an other 8 years
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Untouchable Heart
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:35:00 -
[1387]
Originally by: neurocite ....more will just live in high/low sec and go to 0.0 for pvp....
???? Go to 0.0 pvp ? 0.0 pvp changed to crap. Gatecamp + blob + capital blob + lag. This is the real 0.0 pvp. This is fun ? No ? This will lure the players to 0.0 ??? Bull**** like this changes too.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:35:00 -
[1388]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: hankey WTF CCP?! ---->Travel time is about 10 minutes from one Drone Region border to another.<----
Apparently, you understand why jumpbridges are being nerfed.
Yup...
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Morathee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:35:00 -
[1389]
Originally by: Kasuki Itsu The main thing I don't like about this change is that it makes forming up an average gang of 30 - 40 more tedious. Increased travel times mean a longer form up time and possibly less people bothering to come along, and also makes travelling outside of friendly space to fight enemies more of a chore.
This issue has nothing to do with the JB changes as they're not removing them entirely and everything to do with you being over bloated with blues.
As for the changes they sound great. I'm guessing when JBs were thought up by CCP they probably didn't expect multiple alliances to create and share their JBs to form super highways spanning 50% of 0.0
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Ravelin Eb
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:36:00 -
[1390]
This is one of better changes this game will see. |
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Ceratin
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:37:00 -
[1391]
Yes, eve is to small, yes it needs fixing
However.. this is incredibly one sided, the one jump bridge per system i could understand if you were going to rebalance the supercapital blob that can currently traverse the entire map within an hour.
The no ships with jump drive using a jump bridge is just silly. There are many smaller corps and alliances that have cyno jammed systems and bridges setup like this to avoid facing the silly sc blob i mentioned above. To tell them they cant enter their own system with a carrier for example without waiting for alliance leadership to come and cycle the jammer is ******ed. Might aswell remove jammers completely in that case.
This seems to be yet another advocate for the blob, while i relish the idea of having more opportunity to gank people travelling through gates i dont see the negative effects as being anywhere near worth it tbh, and the time you've given to adjust jump bridge networks is simply insufficient
Stop ****ing with stuff this isnt broken and fix the things that actually need fixing, ie; sc blobs , railguns?? lol , the space in low end nullsec which u broke, the nano/missile nerf which u broke and the solo pvp which became obsolete when u introduced new npc arenas which take 30 secs to scan when u enter a system. While ur at it sort out short range scan probing, its ******ed and has wiped sniping off fleet warfare completely
<3 |
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:37:00 -
[1392]
Remove cyno Alts as well... They are not being used as"You"would like them to be used.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:37:00 -
[1393]
Originally by: Ravelin Eb This is one of better changes for PL this game will see.
fixed
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Avar Davola
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:38:00 -
[1394]
dear CCP, I tip my hat to you good people, not only do I approve of these changes fully but you also manage to generate more tears then us, even despite our best efforts
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:40:00 -
[1395]
Originally by: Feyleaf ccp is limiting player influence by throwing aroung changes to 0.0 power balance to "rock the boat" or whatever.. if im gonna loose i will rather loose to other players.
It's "lose"... unless you're talking about loose pants or loose change.
Also: game changes are normal in EVE. The game changed massively since I've started. Back then there were no capitals (later they were introduced but were way to expensive for most people), no JBs, no JFs etc. and we survived (and likely became less dismal, timid and self-centred players because of it). Back then you actually needed to work together to get anything done. Now you just have your logistic slaves that (for whatever reason) build up your JB network for you and maintain it so you can fly around in near perfect safety.
Why anyone would expect or even demand that the "average Jack" should be safe while slow-boating through 0.0 is a mystery to me... 0.0 is NOT about being safe and maximizing your botting output... it's about fighting each other. If players make use of game mechanics to prevent that integral part of the game then those game mechanics need to be changed (exactly like was done with the speed nerf - people found out that they can remain very safe while PVPing due to speed so speed was nerfed).
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:44:00 -
[1396]
Originally by: Sedilis
Originally by: hankey WTF CCP?! It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc.
Mission accomplished
Or, as another poster put it: Let's remove the dependency on Jita before we make it harder to get there.
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Gilat Sumat
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:46:00 -
[1397]
Originally by: Morathee
Originally by: Kasuki Itsu As for the changes they sound great. I'm guessing when JBs were thought up by CCP they probably didn't expect multiple alliances to create and share their JBs to form super highways spanning 50% of 0.0
Yeah, but like some snot-nose kid on the playground, when things don't go their way they take their ball and go home... These asshats love messing things up I tell ya...
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Grady Eltoren
Minmatar UNITED STATES ARMY
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:47:00 -
[1398]
Tandin you're wrong. If you're (you are) going to critcize someone's grammar, at least do it right.
"Your," was the correct word to use in the sentence below.
:P
Grady -
P.S. CCP I support LT Smithh's post.
Originally by: Tandin
Originally by: Lt Smithh 1. PL your a bunch of "live at home F**s, We know you live in your 4 Sov system that don't need a JB network as you blob your Super's around.
A) It's "you're"
Originally by: Lt Smithh
Its almost like saying that the US military will loose all of its Carriers and support ships and they can only use there battleships because the people we are at war with does not have Carriers.
B) The US doesn't technically have any BS's on the naval registry. Guided missile cruisers and such, yes. BS's.. no..
Not sure how nerfing JB's equates to neutering ship classes though. Jump capable ships are still useful. It just means you can't jam every system anymore (which isn't necessarily a bad thing).
Aviation Professionals for EVE (APEVE)
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:47:00 -
[1399]
<DRAMALLAMADINGDONG> Why not just remove 0.0 while your at it? overexaggerated comment regarding 0.0 pvp, over exaggerated commend about ccp destroying 0.0.
generic anti ccp statment. </DRAMALLAMADINGDONG>
EvE was fine before JB's it'll be fine when you hvae a few less, HTFU, use gates, Join a fleet.
This wont singlehandedly loose us the war againsed the russians, but it will weed out the ******ed carrier pilots who still gonna warp to a Jumpbridge and get lolganked. I have no problem with this. ----
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:49:00 -
[1400]
The tears this thread is delivering is just awesome.
Stop whining, you still have your jump bridges, you just need to move through a normal gate once in a while.
OMG, yes, you actually have to use a normal gate!
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CrazzyElk
Big Shadows Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:50:00 -
[1401]
Bestest news ever.. :) keep em coming.
This and similar changes is the best way to nerf superblobs and bring more small conflicts.
/ CrazzyElk
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:51:00 -
[1402]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 11:53:49 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 11:52:22 stuff like this needs longer warning.. else you are just screwing with the players for kick's.. no reason for this given yet.
Im not sure i like the changes.. im sure i dont like ccp's idea of shuffling **** around to "keep it fresh" or whatever. makes long term goals kinda lame.. Its one of the things i came to eve to get away from. Stop trying to control human behavior and let us play in an actual player driven sandbox.
ps.. omfg supercap nerf instead of stealtbuff?
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Philip Jones
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:53:00 -
[1403]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 11/05/2011 10:05:08
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Not at all talking about nerfing/allowing more projection, I'm talking about dealing with the situation that someone owns a carrier but can't participate in a cap fleet because of x skill requirements.
Did it ever occur to you that there are x skill requirements to participate in a cap fleet for a reason? I mean the person has to be able to jump to the location (that can require a minimum JDC skill level), there might be a need to help provide logistics to subcaps or caps (thus a minimum level in remote repairing), weapon or damage types preferred to counter enemy etc.
So now you want to dictate for us who can and can't be in fleets?
You also realize that a standard carrier will last less than 15seconds against a supercarrier right?
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
Lol WTF...
Lots of fleets I can't join as I dont have the skills for the ship skilled up, so are you going to make it so that I get those skills instantly added every time theres a fleet with a ship I can't fly?
What is the point of this skill system in EvE?
Jump range not skilled means you can't play with your alliance, then why wouldn't one of your alliance mates put up an extra cyno chain for you CCP, then you can still play with your friends. Stop looking at stuff that clearly isn't broken. This is a MMORPG, learn to commmunicate in your alliance.
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Pwong
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:56:00 -
[1404]
Looks like the Russian & PL bots wanted more space to work in, cashed out all that ISK to RMT and handed a big fat paycheck under the table to some Devs. I guess that's what CCP fan fest is all about.
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Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc. Red Shift Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:56:00 -
[1405]
My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:57:00 -
[1406]
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 11:53:49 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 11:52:22 stuff like this needs longer warning..
Ok, on that I feel that you have a valid point.
I'm all for the JB nerf, but I can understand why the short notice would upset people.
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Lidia Prince
Caldari Caldari Aegis
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:58:00 -
[1407]
Posting in epic butthurt thread.
Nice changes CCP, 0.0's and caps should be fixed one way or another.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 11:59:00 -
[1408]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: Feyleaf ccp is limiting player influence by throwing aroung changes to 0.0 power balance to "rock the boat" or whatever.. if im gonna loose i will rather loose to other players.
It's "lose"... unless you're talking about loose pants or loose change.
Also: game changes are normal in EVE. The game changed massively since I've started. Back then there were no capitals (later they were introduced but were way to expensive for most people), no JBs, no JFs etc. and we survived (and likely became less dismal, timid and self-centred players because of it). Back then you actually needed to work together to get anything done. Now you just have your logistic slaves that (for whatever reason) build up your JB network for you and maintain it so you can fly around in near perfect safety.
Why anyone would expect or even demand that the "average Jack" should be safe while slow-boating through 0.0 is a mystery to me... 0.0 is NOT about being safe and maximizing your botting output... it's about fighting each other. If players make use of game mechanics to prevent that integral part of the game then those game mechanics need to be changed (exactly like was done with the speed nerf - people found out that they can remain very safe while PVPing due to speed so speed was nerfed).
we do like ppl to rat and mine in 0.0? else you guys would get bored and you need the killboard padding for 1337. since you probably never met an actual logistic's guy.. we have alot of members among them are some who enjoy that kinda ****.
Lets just remove anything that hasnt got to do with roaming.. there would be small gangs of elite pvp'ers running from eachother all over the place :D
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Admiral Goberius
Amarr North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:00:00 -
[1409]
lmao itt: sperges
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:00:00 -
[1410]
Originally by: Alissa Solette Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 11:13:09
Originally by: Miso Hawnee DRF pro PVP? Which server are you playing eve on? GG you are out of touch...
I didn't say they're pro anything but they're definitely out-perfoming you guys at every turn. They also seem to be fielding a lot more supers then you guys... come to think of it perhaps there is some causal relationship between those two statements?
Question: Why is CCP making these changes? Answer: To much ISK in game.
Question: Why is there to much ISK in game? Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.
Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals? Answer: Botted ISK.
Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.
Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North? Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.
Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.
Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.
I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:02:00 -
[1411]
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Exactly my thoughts.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:02:00 -
[1412]
Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:04:37
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Yeah but the point is 0.0 was supposed to offer these benefits. It's the ****ing point of 0.0. We pay for them, we fight for them, we expend significant manpower maintaining them, and they're being taken away, or made less effective. If sleepers were suddenly removed from the game, would your really be ****ing sitting here going "Silly WH space dwellers, people in null, low and highsec have to deal without sleepers, stop *****ing"? Are you that ******ed? It's the ****ing point of that ****ing type of space.
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Zanica Andell
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:03:00 -
[1413]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Originally by: Alissa Solette Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 11:13:09
Originally by: Miso Hawnee DRF pro PVP? Which server are you playing eve on? GG you are out of touch...
I didn't say they're pro anything but they're definitely out-perfoming you guys at every turn. They also seem to be fielding a lot more supers then you guys... come to think of it perhaps there is some causal relationship between those two statements?
Question: Why is CCP making these changes? Answer: To much ISK in game.
Question: Why is there to much ISK in game? Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.
Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals? Answer: Botted ISK.
Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.
Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North? Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.
Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.
Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.
I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
+1
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Krits
Caldari Viscosity -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:06:00 -
[1414]
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Manage and pay a sov bill and get back to me numb nuts, these changes are ******ed.
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Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:06:00 -
[1415]
Hi folks! Um, it's kind of embarrassing, but I got lost on the way to the thread about ferrets with warp drives in space. They told me can't miss it, got 158 replies - well, I found a buncha threads with 157 replies, and a buncha with 159 replies, but not a single bloody one with 158. Just my luck right?
Anyway, if somebody could point me in the right direction, well, I say this would be quite dandy.
Thank you in advance, fine gentlemen.
Ta! __________________________________
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Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:08:00 -
[1416]
Originally by: Svennig Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:04:37 Yeah but the point is 0.0 was supposed to offer these benefits. It's the ****ing point of 0.0. We pay for them, we fight for them, we expend significant manpower maintaining them, and they're being taken away, or made less effective. If sleepers were suddenly removed from the game, would your really be ****ing sitting here going "Silly WH space dwellers, people in null, low and highsec have to deal without sleepers, stop *****ing"? Are you that ******ed? It's the ****ing point of that ****ing type of space.
So true....
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Tappits
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:09:00 -
[1417]
Best change for a long time, I LOVE CCP Soundwave!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------- I fail At forums ٩๏̯͡๏)۶ |
A Little Girl
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:10:00 -
[1418]
Where are these jump bridges? I flew all over Jita but I couldn't find one! I think you guys are making things up!
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Tester128
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:11:00 -
[1419]
and while you are nerfing nullsec carebears do another small but important thing - put gates on the anomalies - no more ratting with supers, carriers and assisted fighters
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Gilat Sumat
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:12:00 -
[1420]
Originally by: A Little Girl Where are these jump bridges? I flew all over Jita but I couldn't find one! I think you guys are making things up!
Ask again on the 17th...
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:13:00 -
[1421]
Originally by: Tester128 and while you are nerfing nullsec carebears do another small but important thing - put gates on the anomalies - no more ratting with supers, carriers and assisted fighters
Nah **** that. That just removes ganking opportunities.
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Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc. Red Shift Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:14:00 -
[1422]
Originally by: Svennig Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:07:11 Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:04:37
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Yeah but the point is 0.0 was supposed to offer these benefits. It's the ****ing point of 0.0. We pay for them, we fight for them, we expend significant manpower maintaining them, and they're being taken away, or made less effective. If sleepers were suddenly removed from the game, would your really be ****ing sitting here going "Silly WH space dwellers, people in null, low and highsec have to live without sleepers, stop *****ing"? Are you that ******ed? It's the ****ing point of that ****ing type of space.
Dude they have not taken away the jumpbridges or the anoms, your comparison is worthless. Every alliance and corp will have to adapt to this that live in nullsec and everyone will have a bit more risk that uses bridges.
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Nominol
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:14:00 -
[1423]
Originally by: Tester128 and while you are nerfing nullsec carebears do another small but important thing - put gates on the anomalies - no more ratting with supers, carriers and assisted fighters
This would be SO awesome.
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Gilat Sumat
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:16:00 -
[1424]
Originally by: Walextheone
Originally by: Svennig Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:07:11 Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:04:37
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Yeah but the point is 0.0 was supposed to offer these benefits. It's the ****ing point of 0.0. We pay for them, we fight for them, we expend significant manpower maintaining them, and they're being taken away, or made less effective. If sleepers were suddenly removed from the game, would your really be ****ing sitting here going "Silly WH space dwellers, people in null, low and highsec have to live without sleepers, stop *****ing"? Are you that ******ed? It's the ****ing point of that ****ing type of space.
Dude they have not taken away the jumpbridges or the anoms, your comparison is worthless. Every alliance and corp will have to adapt to this that live in nullsec and everyone will have a bit more risk that uses bridges.
Says the guy with no space....
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PryMary
Minmatar Solar Nexus.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:17:00 -
[1425]
Are you ****ing serious!!!!! WHAT THE **** CCP!!!! Stop being morons, listen to the people that live in 0.0 and leave our home's alonew you ****ing ******s... Instead of ****ing everything up why not actually make changes that make the game more playable like I don't know say..... FIX THE LAG YOU ****TARDS!
Regards,
PryMary ☻♥
Captains Quarters Coming SoonÖ |
Flex Carter
Caldari Independant Mining Association
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:19:00 -
[1426]
Originally by: PryMary Are you ****ing serious!!!!! WHAT THE **** CCP!!!! Stop being morons, listen to the people that live in 0.0 and leave our home's alonew you ****ing ******s... Instead of ****ing everything up why not actually make changes that make the game more playable like I don't know say..... FIX THE LAG YOU ****TARDS!
She posted that, not me CCP... I just said you guys suck.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:21:00 -
[1427]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 12:26:15
Originally by: Gilat Sumat
Originally by: Walextheone
Originally by: Svennig Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:07:11 Edited by: Svennig on 11/05/2011 12:04:37
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Yeah but the point is 0.0 was supposed to offer these benefits. It's the ****ing point of 0.0. We pay for them, we fight for them, we expend significant manpower maintaining them, and they're being taken away, or made less effective. If sleepers were suddenly removed from the game, would your really be ****ing sitting here going "Silly WH space dwellers, people in null, low and highsec have to live without sleepers, stop *****ing"? Are you that ******ed? It's the ****ing point of that ****ing type of space.
Dude they have not taken away the jumpbridges or the anoms, your comparison is worthless. Every alliance and corp will have to adapt to this that live in nullsec and everyone will have a bit more risk that uses bridges.
Says the guy with no space....
this^ +its stealt-buff to supercaps.. no wonder drf and PL are extatic especially coz its also a major tactical help they just got from ccp in major ungoing conflict.
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Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:25:00 -
[1428]
Who ever keeps thinking up this fail needs to get Donald Trumped in a hurry. All I ever hear in CCP interviews " I play in high sec im a trader. Daris and Soundwave WTF can you guys put some sense into their ass. Wake up your inner Goonie and wake those jackasses up.Over the years I have kept quiet while cringing as more and more folks I know stop logging on. all these ****ty changes. I guess keeping quiet is not going to work.
Donald Trump for CCP.
"I seek Understanding in a world of 1`s & 0`s. I seek oneness in a world of chaos." |
Walextheone
The Red Circle Inc. Red Shift Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:26:00 -
[1429]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Gilat Sumat
Says the guy with several wormhole systems....
Me too is lazy^
Species that don't know how to adapt goes extinct. Seriously though, I understand that this is more of a hassle but can't you change your ways too?
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ovenproofjet
Caldari Therapy.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:28:00 -
[1430]
Edited by: ovenproofjet on 11/05/2011 12:27:51 I'll be honest....I j*zzed a little reading this. Let the murderous rampages begin
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:29:00 -
[1431]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 12:32:42
Originally by: Walextheone
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Gilat Sumat
Says the guy with several wormhole systems....
Me too is lazy^
Species that don't know how to adapt goes extinct. Seriously though, I understand that this is more of a hassle but can't you change your ways too?
gonna make casual allround players leave game instead if recent trend with suprise **** continues. Less pve players in 0.0 will get the Team-deathmatch crowd bored.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:30:00 -
[1432]
Originally by: Walextheone
Species that don't know how to adapt goes extinct.
Wasn't that Band of Brothers corp Evolution's catchphrase? Or was it Lotka Volterra's? Both entities that were super keen on other people adapting but not so good at it themselves.
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Qel'Droma
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:35:00 -
[1433]
i give up on ccp, once again you show you know **** all about your game and customers.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:35:00 -
[1434]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 12:35:55
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Walextheone
Species that don't know how to adapt goes extinct.
Wasn't that Band of Brothers corp Evolution's catchphrase? Or was it Lotka Volterra's? Both entities that were super keen on other people adapting but not so good at it themselves.
I heard they used to cheat alot.. some say they were never actually good but only were strong coz of inside info about coming changes and game mechanic exploits and handout from dev's who played in that alliance? anyway.. who cares.. there is no bob.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:37:00 -
[1435]
I love it when pubbies and mongoloid ~elite PvP~ types complain about our jump bridges out in 0.0.
Whatever, if it's going to make this game suck any more than it already does, I'll just unsub.
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Gilat Sumat
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:37:00 -
[1436]
What day is @%#&*-slap a Dev day again?
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:38:00 -
[1437]
Originally by: Andski I love it when pubbies and mongoloid ~elite PvP~ types complain about our jump bridges out in 0.0.
Whatever, if it's going to make this game suck any more than it already does, I'll just unsub.
yeah hehe.. summertime \O/
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Spc One
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:38:00 -
[1438]
Why doesn't ccp just simply remove 0.0 ?
Seems like ccp doesn't like 0.0 anymore so many nerfs.. so i suggest removing of 0.0 NERF AFTER NERF.
____________________________________________________________________________ Angel 0/A |
Adria Eqviis
Dark Shadow Industries Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:50:00 -
[1439]
Edited by: Adria Eqviis on 11/05/2011 12:50:31 I think I'll just take up a hobby that doesn't involve some ****ers changing the 'physics' over and over. Maybe I should finally do that next Karate belt... oh and I love biking. At least g ≈ 9,81m/s¦ won't be changing that soon. And I always wanted to build a model monorail...
My subscription will lapse in a month.
(in b4 ragequit. more of a facepalmquit.)
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:51:00 -
[1440]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
Exactly my thoughts.
some ppl are smart enuff to have good intel channels, maintain infrastructure.. and nice enuff to have many friends, everyone in 0.0 has an eye on local and intel.. whats your point? the real problem is these suprise nerf's that upset power balance, mind you its not players doing this, its artificial aka not sandbox. Earlier announcements or diaf.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:52:00 -
[1441]
Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders. ____________________________________________
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fattrader II
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:53:00 -
[1442]
this thread amuses me
good changes _______________________________
Garmon aka Garrmonia aka the PoWnEr
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 12:54:00 -
[1443]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
did your parents ignore you much.. must be hard being ignored like that, get more friends then destroy enemy infrastructure.. whats the problem.. you know diplomacy is also a big part of eve.. alot bigger then say.. spies =)
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fattrader II
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:03:00 -
[1444]
Edited by: fattrader II on 11/05/2011 13:07:15
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:00:38
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
did your parents ignore you much.. must be hard being ignored like that, get more friends then destroy enemy infrastructure.. whats the problem.. you know diplomacy is also a big part of eve.. alot bigger then say.. spies =)
you could also roam more in places that more suited to your fleet capabilities?
what would really help smallgang pvp in eve is more npc 0.0
alternatively, you can cry on the forums on a nameless alt because moving your raven is going to be so much harder now _______________________________
Garmon aka Garrmonia aka the PoWnEr
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:09:00 -
[1445]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:12:25 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:10:37
Originally by: fattrader II
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:00:38
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
did your parents ignore you much.. must be hard being ignored like that, get more friends then destroy enemy infrastructure.. whats the problem.. you know diplomacy is also a big part of eve.. alot bigger then say.. spies =)
you could also roam more in places that more suited to your fleet capabilities?
what would really help smallgang pvp in eve is more npc 0.0
alternatively, you can cry on the forums on a nameless alt about how moving your raven is going to be so much harder now
actually not an alt hehe well kinda.. nameless not rofl, and i own a carrier(wow) so dont really care that much personally(yes i rat in it while being aligned and watching intel and local and no ur not gonna catch me unless my house is on fire. But recent suprise "rock the boat" nerfs are kinda lame.
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JaseNZ
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:12:00 -
[1446]
Do not like the upcoming changes :(
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:12:00 -
[1447]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
I'm sure DRF is botting just as much as NC or at least I really hope they are because otherwise it would mean that there are seriously 50k people that actually enjoy grinding ISK in 0.0. To me that's even more scary then bots tbh.
All the botting accusations aside: bottom line is NC have massive super fleets at their disposal that could rival DRF but they refuse to use them outside of sanctums.
That makes them feel impotent and weak (which isn't far from the truth) so instead of asking themselves how they can change it they instead ask CCP to nerf whatever new super weapon is being used against them.
I'm not trying to encourage people botting or exploiting the old static plexes (54min Overseer respawn instead of 24h) like the Russians in RA did for literally years but lets be honest: it's a sand box and everyone has the same possibilities. Some people make use of those possibilities and dominate the game... others cry about life being unfair.
Either way, asking CCP to nerf stuff because your alliances are to weak, timid, badly organized or too poor (or any combination thereof) is definitely not the way to win any conflicts. Kicking/ganking all super pilots that don't want to risk their capitals outside of Anoms might be a better idea.. I dunno.
Fact is DRF+PL field supers and NC whine a lot (for whatever reasons).
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Lyric Lahnder
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:13:00 -
[1448]
For the first time in a while I feel sorry for the people who live in null sec.
I have tried three separate times to live and work in null sec in the larger alliances and always left broke. Unless you own moons you cant make any money in null sec unless you can spend your entire day playing eve which is impossible for any one with a job/wife/kids. It seems the anomaly nerf made this much worse.
Im in a chat channel of people who run missions together(in other words Huge fuzzy care bears) and we've seen a huge influx of people from larger null sec alliances who have packed their bags and returned to empire because its impossible to make money out their and fight wars. Im certain this change will also see this number increase.
So... Your trying to increase conflict in null sec and on top of that your also nerfing rewards to players in null sec. Which means people will fight more(lose more) and have fewer recourses to replace it.
Im not entirely sure this what you want to go for ccp. When ever I try to explain to some one why eve is different from other MMO's I explain the dynamics and politics of null sec. Now it seems you are driving people away from one of the major things that makes eve unique.
I think im starting to understand what Iteration as in (ship iteration as mentioned by the csm) means. If your dont do balancing and iteration the game becomes a huge tug of war between the groups of players: Care Bears vs Null sec people vs pirates in low sec vs merc's etc. They all want certain changes with in the frame work of the game that benefit them but when it happens it screws one or all of the other groups.
CCP is Unique because it stress' its more then the money it makes and actually gives a damn what the players think. You need to listen to the CSM well when they head up there to see you. If this thread on the JB change doesn't change your mind about your current approach to null sec perhaps they will.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:15:00 -
[1449]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
did your parents ignore you much.. must be hard being ignored like that, get more friends then destroy enemy infrastructure.. whats the problem.. you know diplomacy is also a big part of eve.. alot bigger then say.. spies =)
you could also roam more in places that more suited to your fleet capabilities?
First of all, personal insults just make you look childish.
You need to understand that there's lots of different valid playstyles in 0.0 and that roaming gangs SHOULD be a valid way to get fights for those that don't enjoy the horrible structure shooting and the lagtastic 500v500 battles. Some people prefer the tactics and coordination of small gangs instead of the lock primary+F1 of fleet battles. To each his own.
Getting titan bridged and blobbed to death is actually more fun than being simply ignored. When you get bridged on, it's still possible to ninja quite a few kills off the blob. 0.0 was never intended as highsec 2.0, PvE and money making are fine, but residents should need to defend their space and force the intruders to leave. ____________________________________________
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:18:00 -
[1450]
Why doesn't anyone seem to get what null-sec means. High sec you have concord, low sec you only have gate guns, null sec you have none of this. Null sec means none of the security of high or low sec. If 0.0 has been too safe it means you campers and gankers just suck at EVE. People in 0.0 can make space as safe as they want, if you want total chaos where its every man for himself, and no one is ever safe, remove sov completely.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:18:00 -
[1451]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:23:07 my prob is the 7 days
when they take ages to implement things that are not a nerf and advertise it years in advance.
The changes themselves might be fun.. glad i have a ship with jumpdrives tho.
Smallgang is a valid tactic.. probably not soo much for you guys in a well organized alliance's core systems.. i see nothing wrong with that.
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Chingy Chang
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:24:00 -
[1452]
Originally by: Andski I love it when pubbies and mongoloid ~elite PvP~ types complain about our jump bridges out in 0.0.
Whatever, if it's going to make this game suck any more than it already does, I'll just unsub.
*fap* *fap* *fap* Keep going, I'm almost there.
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Darod Zyree
Gallente Zyree Holding
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:25:00 -
[1453]
I for one welcome back nullsec space that looks somewhat like 2005/06/07 nullsec space :D Should have completely removed jump brigdes.
There were alliances with 1000s of members before jump bridges living in nullsec. Compared to all the ôOMG MY GAMEPLY IS RUINED NOWö whinys on the forums here, the guys of past nullsec alliances were pr0.
-Darod- |
Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:27:00 -
[1454]
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:21:31 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:20:25 my prob is the 7 days
when they take ages to implement things that are not a nerf and advertise it years in advance.
The changes themselves might be fun.. glad i have a ship with jumpdrives tho.
Smallgang is a valid tactic.. probably not soo much for you guys in a well organized alliance's core systems.. i see nothing wrong with that.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for cheap ganks all the time or even and fair fights. I just want some action. I want to be blobbed, to be chased, etc. I don't like RL examples, but this one is quite appropriate: If 4 guys on the highway are shooting all the cars that are passing there, the army won't be broadcasting on radio/TV to avoid the highway until the terrorists get bored, they will freakin' shoot them down ASAP. It should be the same in sov 0.0 and this JB nerf FINALLY gives a way to roaming gangs to become so annoying that the residents might choose to go and kill them. It's not a big small gang pvp boost, but it's still quite welcome. ____________________________________________
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:28:00 -
[1455]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:30:12
Originally by: Darod Zyree I for one welcome back nullsec space that looks somewhat like 2005/06/07 nullsec space :D Should have completely removed jump brigdes.
There were alliances with 1000s of members before jump bridges living in nullsec. Compared to all the ôOMG MY GAMEPLY IS RUINED NOWö whinys on the forums here, the guys of past nullsec alliances were pr0.
If all the non-pro eve players left 0.0 then the pro's wouldnt look so pro.. would only have eachother to fight and probably quit in shame coz of killboard without "padding"
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Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:29:00 -
[1456]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
They won't go fight them in the same vaga and cynabal ten man gang setup you use, they'll come with three or four or five times your number and chase you away. Cause they're not there to dogfight. And then you'll go back to npc null. You know, where you're safe.
I like roaming around as much as the next guy, but why is it *right* that twenty guys should be able to get a fight out of sov holding alliances whenever they feel like it? Where's that sense of entitlement coming from?
Until we have a 'crops and fields' mechanic in place, one way of getting roaming gang fights is to set them up with other people who "don't enjoy the horrible structure shooting and the lagtastic 500v500 battles."
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:30:00 -
[1457]
I, for one, support the changes to Jump Bridges. The complicated 2 JB / system loops allowed for some very safe travel of ships like freighters and industrials. And while this is a significant change to 0.0 alliances that rely heavily on JB networks, I feel it's one for the best.
Finally smaller gangs reasonably disrupt the supply lines of larger alliances and actually cause the 'Death by a thousand paper cuts' that many people have wanted to be able to cause.
Titans no longer being able to bridge in is also nice, it means that cyno jammed systems need to cycle down the jammer to get more titans in.
Overall good changes, there was a hint in this thread of removing unscannable ships in some way. While I agree perfect unscannable-ness is broken, I'd like to see some resistance to being scanned down still exist. *Crosses fingers that those changes take till 2014*
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:31:00 -
[1458]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
I'm sure DRF is botting just as much as NC or at least I really hope they are because otherwise it would mean that there are seriously 50k people that actually enjoy grinding ISK in 0.0. To me that's even more scary then bots tbh.
Yes, people do grind up to get ISK *shock*. Its probably the most common method. I don't think many enjoy it but if you stick to the EULA its one of the best methods short of industry or Wormholes (which need an income nerf) to make ISK. Occasionally you get an officer kill and sell a mod to a mission runner in Jita for extortionate amounts.
Originally by: Alissa Solette
I'm not trying to encourage people botting or exploiting the old static plexes (54min Overseer respawn instead of 24h) like the Russians in RA did for literally years but lets be honest: it's a sand box and everyone has the same possibilities. Some people make use of those possibilities and dominate the game... others cry about life being unfair.
So actually what your saying is its actually ok to bot because other people do. Its a sand box and some abide by the rules and other don't. DRF is only moving space because they cannot bot in the South any more and the only reason they can afford to move space is because of the botted ISK. Now stop trying to argue against this. Its plain simple fact. How else can they afford to field fleets of 200+ supercaps and pay 600b to PL to fight for them?
CCP needs to address that, then look at 0.0 changes. Doing 0.0 changes before they've taken away the ISK is a bad move.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:31:00 -
[1459]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
Why would residents form up? The campers will just run away like they always do, no fight whatsoever. Hell if they even see each other it would be a goddamn miracle. No one invades 0.0 to fight, they invade 0.0 to pad their kb so they can brag about being elite pvp.
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:32:00 -
[1460]
fu** the h8rs CCP you're doing great this has been a long time coming
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:33:00 -
[1461]
Originally by: Ravcharas
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
They won't go fight them in the same vaga and cynabal ten man gang setup you use, they'll come with three or four or five times your number
I'm fine with that, it's an improvement over the current situation. ____________________________________________
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:35:00 -
[1462]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
Why would residents form up? The campers will just run away like they always do, no fight whatsoever. Hell if they even see each other it would be a goddamn miracle. No one invades 0.0 to fight, they invade 0.0 to pad their kb so they can brag about being elite pvp.
Even with almost similar numbers(cmon you guys are elite?) we almost always fowmup and hostiles leave or hide. Most 0.0 roamers dont want actual fights much.. looks bad on killboard stats.
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Don Pellegrino
Pod Liberation Authority HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:36:00 -
[1463]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
Why would residents form up? The campers will just run away like they always do, no fight whatsoever. Hell if they even see each other it would be a goddamn miracle. No one invades 0.0 to fight, they invade 0.0 to pad their kb so they can brag about being elite pvp.
As I said, it's possible to ninja kills off the blob with intelligent bubble placing, snipers, fast ships, etc. Gatecamping is only a way to get a fight, it's not the kind of pvp that people come to 0.0 for (well, for most people). ____________________________________________
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:36:00 -
[1464]
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
0.0 is safe because the people who live there make it safe. Territory is taken and held and intel is passed on to make it safe.
If you're neut or red in the wrong space its very very unsafe. The whole point of sov is to take space, keep it safe for your organisation and fight off invaders.
Think of it like this. I'm blue to Colonel Gaddafi. Your neutral. For me I can walk through Tripoli. For you, he'll get someone to kill you. However your blue to Nato, I'm red. Nato won't kill you (unless your British and the US are overhead in A10's) but they'll kill me. Do you see how this works yet?
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:36:00 -
[1465]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: Ravcharas
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
They won't go fight them in the same vaga and cynabal ten man gang setup you use, they'll come with three or four or five times your number
I'm fine with that, it's an improvement over the current situation.
There wont be any change. They will either wait a few minutes until you run away or form a gang and watch you cloak up or run away.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:37:00 -
[1466]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
Why would residents form up? The campers will just run away like they always do, no fight whatsoever. Hell if they even see each other it would be a goddamn miracle. No one invades 0.0 to fight, they invade 0.0 to pad their kb so they can brag about being elite pvp.
Even with almost similar numbers(cmon you guys are elite?) we almost always fowmup and hostiles leave or hide. Most 0.0 roamers dont want actual fights much.. looks bad on killboard stats.
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:39:00 -
[1467]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:40:00 -
[1468]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:40:00 -
[1469]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 13:41:18
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
Why would residents form up? The campers will just run away like they always do, no fight whatsoever. Hell if they even see each other it would be a goddamn miracle. No one invades 0.0 to fight, they invade 0.0 to pad their kb so they can brag about being elite pvp.
Even with almost similar numbers(cmon you guys are elite?) we almost always fowmup and hostiles leave or hide. Most 0.0 roamers dont want actual fights much.. looks bad on killboard stats.
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
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Darod Zyree
Gallente Zyree Holding
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:42:00 -
[1470]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Originally by: Walextheone My god every dude in lowsec or w-space have to watch their surrounding all the time, keeping you on edge.
You lazy *****ing nullsecers who complain so much, you really want 0.0 to be "safe" all the time? Organize convoys, scout or be creative.
As it seems now you want: ISK at no risk and safe travels. Sounds more like highsec is your game then
0.0 is safe because the people who live there make it safe. Territory is taken and held and intel is passed on to make it safe.
If you're neut or red in the wrong space its very very unsafe. The whole point of sov is to take space, keep it safe for your organisation and fight off invaders.
Think of it like this. I'm blue to Colonel Gaddafi. Your neutral. For me I can walk through Tripoli. For you, he'll get someone to kill you. However your blue to Nato, I'm red. Nato won't kill you (unless your British and the US are overhead in A10's) but they'll kill me. Do you see how this works yet?
No one is questioning standings between alliances, most of us just agree that neither Colonel Gaddafi/NATO should have means to travel (jump bridges) between countries (systems/regions) other then the normal highways everyone uses (star gates) :)
-Darod- |
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:42:00 -
[1471]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.
Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:43:00 -
[1472]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Don Pellegrino Yes, this will make gatecamps more frequent, but it gives a way to small gang pvpers to force 0.0 residents to form up (by bubbling a chokepoint) and go fight them instead of ignoring them like they do right now.
It's not *right* that 0.0 residents can simply ignore intruders.
Why would residents form up? The campers will just run away like they always do, no fight whatsoever. Hell if they even see each other it would be a goddamn miracle. No one invades 0.0 to fight, they invade 0.0 to pad their kb so they can brag about being elite pvp.
As I said, it's possible to ninja kills off the blob with intelligent bubble placing, snipers, fast ships, etc. Gatecamping is only a way to get a fight, it's not the kind of pvp that people come to 0.0 for (well, for most people).
Yeah those people stick to low sec, never see em in null. Just look at fountain, every system has a stealth bomber or cloaky t3. Combat ships never die to em, 99% of the time the only thing on their killboard is indys, salvagers, or miners. There's no pvp, there's just griefing noobs or industrialists who don't want to have to buy 5 gtcs a month in order to afford their pvp ships. There is no such thing as small gang pvp anymore in null, never will be and nothing will EVER change that.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:45:00 -
[1473]
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:46:00 -
[1474]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.
Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.
Then who would build all the supers and titans?
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:48:00 -
[1475]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
Small gangs have always been irrelevant in 0.0 and will continue to be irrelevant.
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Taipion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:48:00 -
[1476]
The reason why this was done, is understanable, maybe necessary.
There were times, where there was no JB, so it can be done without it, sure
Still, this is probably the worst way of "implementing" it.
Why kill all the convenience with your carelessness?
This is pretty much equal to:
Issue: 0.0 logistics are way too easy to do, everyone can do it Solution: We will work this out, until then, we remove courrier contracts, just for the time until its really fixed...
There are countless ways of achieving what you want, why do you, CCP, pick the most simple, most useless, and most stupid one here? This so much says: We do not really care, just pick the first idea that comes up, dont think it through, and do it.
This will do NOTHING, but ANNOY people, sad but true.
Maybe you should have asked someone who knows how to do it... got any "Yellow Pages" in Iceland?!
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:49:00 -
[1477]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.
Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.
Nah, we'll see all sorts of new stupidity as freighters using a JB network will have to cross a gate every jump. It does open up the possibility for more ganks.
Now what we really need is what CCP promised with dominion. Anchorable defenses on stargates.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:50:00 -
[1478]
Originally by: Cellistara
Then who would build all the supers and titans?
Hopefully noone, but i guess there will be some indy pilots left even if the stupid ones disappear.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:51:00 -
[1479]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
Small gangs have always been irrelevant in 0.0 and will continue to be irrelevant.
Nah, they're not irrelevant. They can cause alliances to hemorrhage members by annoying the crap out of ratters and pvpers alike. They can make space unlivable if they're active enough and rarely lose any ships to their targets.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:51:00 -
[1480]
Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 13:52:48
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
1. Yeah wont happen unless they get on the DRF payroll. 2. Pretty much 3. Not really, the only people doing much in 0.0 outside pvp are industrialists and noobs, otherwise people have hisec missioning alts, more isk from that than doing anoms these days, unless you mission in npc null, good isk from pirate bpcs.
Miners, producers, and noobs are the ones who suffer more. No one else. Oh logistics pilots.
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Philip Jones
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:53:00 -
[1481]
Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.
Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.
Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.
This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.
The only issue is timing of this tbh.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:57:00 -
[1482]
Originally by: Cellistara Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 13:52:48
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
1. Yeah wont happen unless they get on the DRF payroll. 2. Pretty much 3. Not really, the only people doing much in 0.0 outside pvp are industrialists and noobs, otherwise people have hisec missioning alts, more isk from that than doing anoms these days, unless you mission in npc null, good isk from pirate bpcs.
Miners, producers, and noobs are the ones who suffer more. No one else. Oh logistics pilots.
Well yes since the anomaly nerf things have gone **** up for 0.0 space.
Dominion launched and we saw the sudden overabundance of previously rare minerals, driving all mining down and averaging out the value of all 0.0 space.
Moon minerals were changed prior to that making no one moon terribly more remarkable than another. Some are valuable but none are so valuable that it's orders of magnitude.
Ratting in 0.0 became the order of the day. Belt rats weren't terribly viable so it became all about the anoms and complexes. Complexes have needed love for ages, and anomalies got nerfed so hard they became just as useless as belt ratting.
In short, 0.0 was hit with so many nerfs all 0.0 space became more or less averaged out in value. And CCP wonders why nobody is fighting? Just wondering, does constellation sov even still exist?
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:57:00 -
[1483]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Nah, they're not irrelevant. They can cause alliances to hemorrhage members by annoying the crap out of ratters and pvpers alike. They can make space unlivable if they're active enough and rarely lose any ships to their targets.
Lol.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 13:59:00 -
[1484]
Heh look at you... YES YOU! grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds
you are pathetic...
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Mr Stark
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:00:00 -
[1485]
Originally by: Philip Jones The only issue is timing of this tbh.
It does seem to be getting rushed through to coincide with a certain invasion doesnt it...
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Taipion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:02:00 -
[1486]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.
Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.
Nah, we'll see all sorts of new stupidity as freighters using a JB network will have to cross a gate every jump. It does open up the possibility for more ganks.
Now what we really need is what CCP promised with dominion. Anchorable defenses on stargates.
Anchorable defenses on Stargates, as good as it sounds, is no more usefull than Anchorable Bubbles, you either have someone there 23/7, or set it up and tear it down every every every time... Would be much like the mines that were once there, anyone remembers?
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:03:00 -
[1487]
Originally by: Taipion
Originally by: Ghurthe
Well yes, why take losses when you get people more upset by denying them a fight?
Then why all the chestbeating and claims of pvp?
=P I'm not chest beating, but popping indy ships sure is fun.
Sure but the amount of stupid indy pilots is about the same as usual so there wont be more indy kills. Perhaps less if the stupid indy pilots go back to high sec.
Nah, we'll see all sorts of new stupidity as freighters using a JB network will have to cross a gate every jump. It does open up the possibility for more ganks.
Now what we really need is what CCP promised with dominion. Anchorable defenses on stargates.
Anchorable defenses on Stargates, as good as it sounds, is no more usefull than Anchorable Bubbles, you either have someone there 23/7, or set it up and tear it down every every every time... Would be much like the mines that were once there, anyone remembers?
Nah wasn't around for mines, well CCP was promising all sorts of nifty sov upgrades like defenses, buuuut after all it's ccp.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:04:00 -
[1488]
Originally by: Megy Feel Heh look at you... YES YOU! grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds
you are pathetic...
If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.. true story :D
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:04:00 -
[1489]
Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 14:06:21
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Cellistara Edited by: Cellistara on 11/05/2011 13:52:48
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
1. Yeah wont happen unless they get on the DRF payroll. 2. Pretty much 3. Not really, the only people doing much in 0.0 outside pvp are industrialists and noobs, otherwise people have hisec missioning alts, more isk from that than doing anoms these days, unless you mission in npc null, good isk from pirate bpcs.
Miners, producers, and noobs are the ones who suffer more. No one else. Oh logistics pilots.
Well yes since the anomaly nerf things have gone **** up for 0.0 space.
Dominion launched and we saw the sudden overabundance of previously rare minerals, driving all mining down and averaging out the value of all 0.0 space.
Moon minerals were changed prior to that making no one moon terribly more remarkable than another. Some are valuable but none are so valuable that it's orders of magnitude.
Ratting in 0.0 became the order of the day. Belt rats weren't terribly viable so it became all about the anoms and complexes. Complexes have needed love for ages, and anomalies got nerfed so hard they became just as useless as belt ratting.
In short, 0.0 was hit with so many nerfs all 0.0 space became more or less averaged out in value. And CCP wonders why nobody is fighting? Just wondering, does constellation sov even still exist?
Nah usually theres only going to be 1 or 2 systems occupied and upgraded in a constellation, usually whatever system has a station. The only gangs we ever see come out of npc space and its always hacs and or drams in groups of less than 10, so its pretty much guaranteed that unless you're alone, there wont be a fight so we just wait em out cause they get bored pretty easily and go back to missioning after an hour usually. Otherwise its cloakers who enter a sys, kill some noctis or retriever, then go afk the rest of the day, not there for kills, just to disrupt industry, occasionally alt tabbing into EVE poking something and alt tabbing back out. Since everyone's so concentrated all that has to happen is half the people in a system undock when a gang comes through and then they'll come post on the EVEO forums that all 0.0 people do is blob and it's ruining small gang pvp. That's pvp in 0.0.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:05:00 -
[1490]
Originally by: Philip Jones Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.
Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.
Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.
This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.
The only issue is timing of this tbh.
If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....
Oh wai-
Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible
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Lira Reib
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:07:00 -
[1491]
IT'S A REALLY GOOD IDEA TO FORCE EVERYBODY IN 0.0 TO MULTIBOX AND HAVE A CARRIER ALT
you are literally ******ed
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Feyleaf
|
Posted - 2011.05.11 14:07:00 -
[1492]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Philip Jones Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.
Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.
Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.
This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.
The only issue is timing of this tbh.
If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....
Oh wai-
Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible
back under the bridge with you!.. and nerf supercaps \o/
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AntISGhey
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:07:00 -
[1493]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Philip Jones Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.
Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.
Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.
This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.
The only issue is timing of this tbh.
If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....
Oh wai-
Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible
Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.
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Viktoria Potsfel
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:10:00 -
[1494]
Originally by: AntISGhey
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Originally by: Philip Jones Be nice if CCP changes JB POS so reds can't enter them even with a password while they are making these changes.
Pretty screwed up that reds can avoid PVP by going inside them to escape.
Of course it will never happen, as all the best devs who understand and actually played EvE have left.
This really wont change the amount of consenual PVP, the players who want to pew will still pew and those who don't will still avoid it by using scouts and cloaks as.
The only issue is timing of this tbh.
If only it were possible to restrict access only to a trusted group of worthy pilots....
Oh wai-
Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible
Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.
i always get a little smile on my lips when some PL guy comments on things regarding holding sov :D
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:11:00 -
[1495]
Originally by: Cellistara
Nah usually theres only going to be 1 or 2 systems occupied and upgraded in a constellation, usually whatever system has a station. The only gangs we ever see come out of npc space and its always hacs and or drams in groups of less than 10, so its pretty much guaranteed that unless you're alone, there wont be a fight so we just wait em out cause they get bored pretty easily and go back to missioning after an hour usually. Otherwise its cloakers who enter a sys, kill some noctis or retriever, then go afk the rest of the day, not there for kills, just to disrupt industry, occasionally alt tabbing into EVE poking something and alt tabbing back out. That's pvp in 0.0.
Yup, totally is. To be completely honest I really enjoy messing with miners and bears by hitting one or two of them a week and kicking back while they wonder if I'm at work or at the keyboard. 0.0 pvp does need work, this won't fix it much. But it's certainly a step forward.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:11:00 -
[1496]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Megy Feel Heh look at you... YES YOU! grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds
you are pathetic...
If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.. true story :D
I too write the same line over and over again in every page i can... I liked your other alt better. Also try harder cute lil bunny
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rcs619
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:16:00 -
[1497]
The amount of b'awwing and doom-saying in this thread is amazing.
You guys DO realize that they aren't removing jump bridges from the game, right? They're still going to be there. You can still have a large, far-reaching jump bridge network, you'll just only be able to have one jump bridge per system. All it will mean is reshuffling and optimizing the jump bridges already in place. Instead of being able to jump bridge to the system right next door, the bridge network may just be limited to connecting key systems together, or connecting various constellations. You'll still be able to travel around fairly quick, this will just mean that you'll need to travel through a stargate between every jump bridge.
Honestly, it isn't even that much of a change, and most of the people in this thread are acting like the sky is falling.
At worst, this change won't do anything. At best, it will encourage more skirmishes at the gates between jump bridge systems, and lead to more opportunities for everyone to PvP.
For all the people talking about how it will be a ganker's paradise, just look at the current jump bridges. The only effective way to camp a jump bridge is with bombers. Ganking is all there is. You sit there, and hope to catch some lone hauler or battlecruiser. This will encourage people to not travel alone, and maybe even create more instances of the travel fleets coming into contact with the roaming skirmish gangs that are out looking for kills.
Also, all you NC people that are complaining, imagine how many billions of isk will be freed up if the NC sheds some of its extraneous jump bridges. That's more isk for ship reimbursment, POS fuel, ammo, and so on. Assuming it doesn't wind up just padding someone's pocket.
Come on people, stop running around and screaming like some kind of streetcorner bum with a tinfoil hat, and maybe this thread could get a decent discussion going. ---------- "Go then. There are other worlds than these" ~ John "Jake" Chambers (The Dark Tower I by: Stephen King) |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:18:00 -
[1498]
Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Megy Feel Heh look at you... YES YOU! grown men whining and crying like 4 year olds
you are pathetic...
If you starve a troll it turns into a cute little hobgoblin.. true story :D
I too write the same line over and over again in every page i can... I liked your other alt better. Also try harder cute lil bunny
pretty much my standard reply to boring trolls, some trolls are amusing :D
Your previous post looks more like an il-adjusted teenager then a 4yo.. so i guess ur 1 up on me hehe
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Philip Jones
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:18:00 -
[1499]
Edited by: Philip Jones on 11/05/2011 14:19:41
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
Game mechanics are fine, it's you that's terrible
oh wow, straight to insults, well done you win.
How are we rating terribleness, KB stats; alliance we are in; isk destoyed on all ours chars or just this one?
If game mechanics are fine, why are so many PL happy about this change in the future?
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:19:00 -
[1500]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Originally by: Cellistara
Nah usually theres only going to be 1 or 2 systems occupied and upgraded in a constellation, usually whatever system has a station. The only gangs we ever see come out of npc space and its always hacs and or drams in groups of less than 10, so its pretty much guaranteed that unless you're alone, there wont be a fight so we just wait em out cause they get bored pretty easily and go back to missioning after an hour usually. Otherwise its cloakers who enter a sys, kill some noctis or retriever, then go afk the rest of the day, not there for kills, just to disrupt industry, occasionally alt tabbing into EVE poking something and alt tabbing back out. That's pvp in 0.0.
Yup, totally is. To be completely honest I really enjoy messing with miners and bears by hitting one or two of them a week and kicking back while they wonder if I'm at work or at the keyboard. 0.0 pvp does need work, this won't fix it much. But it's certainly a step forward.
I'd like to actually see some small gang pvp, I ran 8 accounts and liked to go on roams while I did my thing with the miners (mining is still **** CCP, how bout you give us a cap mining ship for 0.0). But with a 10 man gang npc guys would do the same thing we do, throw 30 people at us, then get mad when reinforcements came, or play station games. If we went to someone elses space, we'd get 50 man HD gangs. PVP in 0.0 is all about numbers, dont have em, dont fight. Best fights I've seen were when hisec gangs would roam into our space with 50 or 60 people and we'd have a good fight. Don't get that from people anymore.
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Gnaw LF
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:20:00 -
[1501]
Originally by: Ghurthe I, for one, support the changes to Jump Bridges. The complicated 2 JB / system loops allowed for some very safe travel of ships like freighters and industrials. And while this is a significant change to 0.0 alliances that rely heavily on JB networks, I feel it's one for the best.
Finally smaller gangs reasonably disrupt the supply lines of larger alliances and actually cause the 'Death by a thousand paper cuts' that many people have wanted to be able to cause.
Titans no longer being able to bridge in is also nice, it means that cyno jammed systems need to cycle down the jammer to get more titans in.
Overall good changes, there was a hint in this thread of removing unscannable ships in some way. While I agree perfect unscannable-ness is broken, I'd like to see some resistance to being scanned down still exist. *Crosses fingers that those changes take till 2014*
Then the 0.0 alliance should be able to retaliate and chase the small gangs/corps/npc 0.0 alliances away from their NPC stations. Otherwise you would have one side with risk free pvp and the other with risk everything pvp.
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Paukinra
Gallente Hard Rock Mining Co.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:23:00 -
[1502]
Yay! Yet another nerf to 0.0 might as well go back to high sec at this rate :/
I can kinda see that jump drive ships shouldnt be able to use JBs but what if you want a system cyno jammed? (although I can kinda see an arguement there for safe(tm) capitals)
I do think, however, Jump Freighters and Rorqual's should be allowed to use them.
As for these: Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? No - but Im not sure it will ever be possible to do with out change moon goo so all regoins have all types of goo.
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough? Since ANom nerf no - i can only just earn more ratting in hubs than I could level 4s - that isnt risk/reward paying off to me.
Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals? If your goal is to lag everybody out then yes.
Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov? Not really unless its just greifing or for merc contracts - although I do see a few non-sov gangs around where I live so I guess some people find a reason.
Are we happy with movement/player interaction? Well, I interact with my corp alot and a few key players in my alliance alot but as for blues and NAPs - nope never talk with then or do anything with them (but then Im only a corp director nothing intercorp let alone alliance).
[url=http://eve-kill.net?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=722354] [/url] |
Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:25:00 -
[1503]
Why is CCP making war on null sec? 1st the Anom nerf (which has pushed me and many of my corp/alliance mates to return our NPCing alts to run missions/incursions in empire to fund pvp, making for FEWER targets in null sec), now making null sec harder to maneuver in?
It doesn't matter that CCP isn't taking JBs away, it matters that CCP is lowering (maybe not outright killing) a lot of the things that make null sec attractive.
How does making Null sec a more tedious place to live attract more players to it? How does making null sec a PITA encourage more of the ship killing pvp that supposedly drives the eve economy.
CCP should be buffing null (and low) sec, not nerfing it. No, the changes won't kill the more diehard null sec dwellers like me, we'll adapt as usual, but I'd prefer null sec grow (and with it, more pew pew), and these kinds of changes are counter to that idea.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:26:00 -
[1504]
Originally by: Gnaw LF
Originally by: Ghurthe I, for one, support the changes to Jump Bridges. The complicated 2 JB / system loops allowed for some very safe travel of ships like freighters and industrials. And while this is a significant change to 0.0 alliances that rely heavily on JB networks, I feel it's one for the best.
Finally smaller gangs reasonably disrupt the supply lines of larger alliances and actually cause the 'Death by a thousand paper cuts' that many people have wanted to be able to cause.
Titans no longer being able to bridge in is also nice, it means that cyno jammed systems need to cycle down the jammer to get more titans in.
Overall good changes, there was a hint in this thread of removing unscannable ships in some way. While I agree perfect unscannable-ness is broken, I'd like to see some resistance to being scanned down still exist. *Crosses fingers that those changes take till 2014*
Then the 0.0 alliance should be able to retaliate and chase the small gangs/corps/npc 0.0 alliances away from their NPC stations. Otherwise you would have one side with risk free pvp and the other with risk everything pvp.
It's the alliances choice to occupy space and put it on the line. End of story, even if you pushed 0.0 sov all the way to high sec, then you'd just have people roam in from highsec.
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Alissa Solette
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:26:00 -
[1505]
Originally by: AntISGhey Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.
And it's PL and CCP that are forcing you to go AFK in your scrub titan at a JB POS with password "bff" right? It has nothing to do with your members being utterly **** and totally ******ed. I can totally see that.
Imagine having to anchor a second secure POS somewhere and idle in there... oh god no... that would require an IQ above 5.
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Froosh
Incidental Damage -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:27:00 -
[1506]
ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?
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Orkasm
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:29:00 -
[1507]
Originally by: Froosh ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?
^ He Mad! ----
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:30:00 -
[1508]
Originally by: Gnaw LF
Then the 0.0 alliance should be able to retaliate and chase the small gangs/corps/npc 0.0 alliances away from their NPC stations. Otherwise you would have one side with risk free pvp and the other with risk everything pvp.
+1
CCP has a habit of "tweaking" one thing while forgetting how it's inter-connected with everything else. The anom nerf is a perfect example, if they'd nerf Hi-sec NPCing income too, it would be balanced, but now you can make the same isk in empire much more safely. Before the nerf there was a reason for "carebears" to go Null, now, not so much, which means fewer good targets for roaming gangs to go after.
In the past I've suggested that CCP hire a psycologist to go along with that economist, because they don't seem to understand the things that drive player behavior.
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Sirus Prime
Caldari Xero Corporation SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:31:00 -
[1509]
SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.
Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?
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PDP Kordal
Gallente The New Era C0NVICTED
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:32:00 -
[1510]
DAm CCP.... one stupid nerf to o.o after another. way to go !!!!
òIs 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? hmm... lets nerf the player income and Logistics to support living there.
òIs the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough? Hmm... no. So lets make empire better to reduce the numbers and "lag" in 0.0
òDoes the current sovereignty system meet our goals? hmmm.. it's not taking enough isk out of the game for 0.0 alliances/ corps yet
òAre there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov? hmmm.. lets reduce lag (lol) and the ablitly to defend space. by limiting jb's. more gate lag from 20 man fleets. got to wuv turkey shooting
òAre we happy with movement/player interaction? hmmm. since when has CCP actually #### |
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 -
[1511]
Originally by: Sirus Prime SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.
Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?
Of course, its all venting and sperging with rage. And PL trolling. Notice there's almost no responses from the one group that stands to benefit most.
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Philip Jones
Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 -
[1512]
Originally by: Alissa Solette
Originally by: AntISGhey Not really, you need a password for players in your alliance to use them. So learn about the game you play.
And it's PL and CCP that are forcing you to go AFK in your scrub titan at a JB POS with password "bff" right? It has nothing to do with your members being utterly **** and totally ******ed. I can totally see that.
Imagine having to anchor a second secure POS somewhere and idle in there... oh god no... that would require an IQ above 5.
Read what I wrote. I said I was annoyed at scrubs reds using said JB pos to escape PVP. They can simply go inside the POS with the pass and warp out. If CCP wants more PVP then they should remove this.
Titans being killed at POS was more about them being ECM burst before they logged. Were they idiots for using pos with passwords, I wasn't there so don't know their choice at the time. CCP decided this mechanic wasn't as intended and changed it. The jump bridge change doesn't affect me, remove them all. First thing I learnt in nul sec was how to travel about way before bridges.
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Froosh
Incidental Damage -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 -
[1513]
Edited by: Froosh on 11/05/2011 14:34:10
Originally by: Orkasm
Originally by: Froosh ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?
^ He Mad!
Got that right sir! Looks like somebody at CCP got surprise ********* in their once a year endeavor into 0.0, FASCISTS!!
Profanity filter, eh? ***'s = butt_secks
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 -
[1514]
Originally by: Sirus Prime
Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?
Pretty much, but Venting is fun lol.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:33:00 -
[1515]
Quote: pretty much my standard reply to boring trolls, some trolls are amusing :D
Your previous post looks more like an il-adjusted teenager then a 4yo.. so i guess ur 1 up on me hehe
There is no need for me to troll you, you just troll yourself with your pathetic moaning and tears. Good to hear i'm amusing the scrubs...
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:35:00 -
[1516]
Originally by: Megy Feel
Quote: pretty much my standard reply to boring trolls, some trolls are amusing :D
Your previous post looks more like an il-adjusted teenager then a 4yo.. so i guess ur 1 up on me hehe
There is no need for me to troll you, you just troll yourself with your pathetic moaning and tears. Good to hear i'm amusing the scrubs...
Whatever dude.. just keep believing in urself :D
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Levioux
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:36:00 -
[1517]
Originally by: Froosh ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?
+1 |
KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:36:00 -
[1518]
ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:36:00 -
[1519]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Sirus Prime SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.
Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?
Of course, its all venting and sperging with rage. And PL trolling. Notice there's almost no responses from the one group that stands to benefit most.
Which groups stand to benefit?
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Rene Lacoste
Luxury Yacht Club
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:39:00 -
[1520]
Originally by: Levioux
Originally by: Froosh ARE U GUYS F*CKIN SERIOUS?
+1
+2
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Ah'line Too'Dahsun
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:40:00 -
[1521]
I think its too soon to say if this is a good or bad change. Like most changes CCP has pushed through recently. There is a pretty large gap between what they say they want and the actual outcome.
It was my understanding the issue was force projection. Being able to bring a very massive fleet across a large region of space. By making the fuel bays larger, They will only increase the size of fleets able to use the network.
Do you really think a 500 man fleet is going to care about a few neuts camping a gate between two jump bridges? Not really.
At best this will slow down a large fleet by 20 or so minutes travel time, while increasing the overall capacity of the size of the fleet. So how long until CCP realizes this and ushers in a new change?
Also, what ever happened to the sandbox? I cannot help but feel that no matter what happens the player base is going to get screwed by having their supply lines cut off during a war.
I think I could live with the 1 jb per system, If they doubled the range of the JB, Seems reasonable to me.
Just for all the PL trolls in this thread. I think CCP should seirously take a look at titan bridges. Are they really needed? Should they be allowed to be activated inside of POS shields?
I think if you are going to **** with jump bridges. It's high time that you remove the ability for a titan to open a portal from within pos shields, same for black ops.
More risk, More pew. :)
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:40:00 -
[1522]
Originally by: KFenn ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
0.0 is not a pvp arena its a place for empire building.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:40:00 -
[1523]
Originally by: KFenn ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
I disagree, you want ganking and small gangs which is what lowsec is for. Null should be about large fleets (50-100 people) and massive wars (thousands of ships at one time). Stop trying to make 0.0 boring, if you want to fight, get 50 people and head out. Don't whine and call for nerfs just because you don't have enough friends to do things on our level.
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Abraxus Lazzurs
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:41:00 -
[1524]
Ahh, the amount of tears shed in this thread alone is gonna be enough to get me through the winter months. I think this is a great idea and lets face it, it's not exactly a game ender. It's just people out in 0.0 who've become too used to jumping on to a JB network and getting where they want to go.
PS - Once again, all these beautiful, beautiful tears.
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:43:00 -
[1525]
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: KFenn ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
0.0 is not a pvp arena its a place for empire building.
It's a place for said empires to fight empires. That's how it's always been intended. You wanna build an empire, sure, build one. But if it all comes tumbling down because you can't defend it, then too bad. That's just the way EVE works.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:44:00 -
[1526]
Originally by: Philip Jones
If game mechanics are fine, why are so many PL happy about this change in the future?
Because PL is 10% old money so rich the game has effectively become meaningless and 90% sycophantic puppies who follow them around mindlessly parroting their opinions as fact.
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Fix Lag
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:45:00 -
[1527]
Soundwave, you clearly don't realize that if we are in an alliance and have an intel channel, we're still going to be pretty damn safe regardless of whether or not we use a gate.
It's our empire, we police it. We provide our own security. The whole point of this being a sandbox game is that you don't interfere with what players make.
Which, coincidentally, is why giving everyone SEVEN ****ING DAYS TO REROUTE THE ENTIRE NETWORK ****ING STUPID. Of course, given your previous hate for the NC after they burned your characters' home to the ground I am not surprised the change came on such short notice.
Fix Lag! |
AntISGhey
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:46:00 -
[1528]
CCP should just go the whole hog and remove JB completely along with titan portals, which are more broken than JB ever were.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:46:00 -
[1529]
Originally by: KFenn ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
So what you are saying is that you want a pvp arena? And you call others carebears? Lmao.
This (and previous changes) does indeed what you apparently want, 0.0 only as place for pvp and where you need to make your ISK in high sec (probably one of the major reasons for CCP to do such things, selling more high sec alt accounts). Please do remember that that means LESS easy ganks by your blob (if you camp with 10 men a gate and gank a hauler it is much more of a blob than when 100 ships attack your 10 pvp ships), since short term you might get a bit more people, until they simply leave for high sec. (And I read here people saying we claimed the same thing after anomaly nerf, well it also happened after anomaly nerf. Here people in system significantly lowered. People actually undocked and doing something lowered enormously, easily with a factor 3-4.)
But I see the goal of 0.0 to actually live there, not to import everything from high sec, not to be forced to use high sec alts for your income, to be relatively independent of high sec, in other words, empire building. This achieves the opposite.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:47:00 -
[1530]
Edited by: Shawna Gray on 11/05/2011 14:48:21
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Shawna Gray
Originally by: KFenn ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
0.0 is not a pvp arena its a place for empire building.
It's a place for said empires to fight empires. That's how it's always been intended. You wanna build an empire, sure, build one. But if it all comes tumbling down because you can't defend it, then too bad. That's just the way EVE works.
sigh Yes pvp is a part of empire building. But the only reason why one bothers with building it is to get places to make isk. Small gangs are irrelevant when it comes to building or tearing down the empires. Atm its not really worth it to be a grunt in a 0.0 alliance.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:51:00 -
[1531]
Originally by: rcs619 The amount of b'awwing and doom-saying in this thread is amazing.
You guys DO realize that they aren't removing jump bridges from the game, right? They're still going to be there. You can still have a large, far-reaching jump bridge network, you'll just only be able to have one jump bridge per system. All it will mean is reshuffling and optimizing the jump bridges already in place. Instead of being able to jump bridge to the system right next door, the bridge network may just be limited to connecting key systems together, or connecting various constellations. You'll still be able to travel around fairly quick, this will just mean that you'll need to travel through a stargate between every jump bridge.
Honestly, it isn't even that much of a change, and most of the people in this thread are acting like the sky is falling.
At worst, this change won't do anything. At best, it will encourage more skirmishes at the gates between jump bridge systems, and lead to more opportunities for everyone to PvP.
For all the people talking about how it will be a ganker's paradise, just look at the current jump bridges. The only effective way to camp a jump bridge is with bombers. Ganking is all there is. You sit there, and hope to catch some lone hauler or battlecruiser. This will encourage people to not travel alone, and maybe even create more instances of the travel fleets coming into contact with the roaming skirmish gangs that are out looking for kills.
Also, all you NC people that are complaining, imagine how many billions of isk will be freed up if the NC sheds some of its extraneous jump bridges. That's more isk for ship reimbursment, POS fuel, ammo, and so on. Assuming it doesn't wind up just padding someone's pocket.
Come on people, stop running around and screaming like some kind of streetcorner bum with a tinfoil hat, and maybe this thread could get a decent discussion going.
So why not wait to apply these changes until after our little SOV war? Timing is everything you know. CCP have not offered any explanation of why they need to do this now and not in say 2 months time.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:51:00 -
[1532]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Originally by: Alissa Solette Edited by: Alissa Solette on 11/05/2011 11:13:09
Originally by: Miso Hawnee DRF pro PVP? Which server are you playing eve on? GG you are out of touch...
I didn't say they're pro anything but they're definitely out-perfoming you guys at every turn. They also seem to be fielding a lot more supers then you guys... come to think of it perhaps there is some causal relationship between those two statements?
Question: Why is CCP making these changes? Answer: To much ISK in game.
Question: Why is there to much ISK in game? Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.
Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals? Answer: Botted ISK.
Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.
Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North? Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.
Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.
Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.
I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
One of the few who read the daily Plaque Black newsletter about the state of the BFFism.
Free advice to you: Resist to read it.
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Avar Davola
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:52:00 -
[1533]
all these juicy tears, never stop being yourself CCP
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:53:00 -
[1534]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 11/05/2011 14:55:04 Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
All meaningful 0.0 industry is geared toward cap and supercap production, all other stuff is bought in Jita, because it's THAT easy, even for non-sov holding entities living in deep 0.0, jump freighters, capital proliferation and disposable cyno accounts are solely responsible for that
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
They don't have a relationship tbh, risk vs reward.... Rewards in 0.0 surpass those of lvl4 whoring, but only if you take advantage of it. Belt npcing won't get you far, titan plexing will.
Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
No, far too static. Only entities that lost sov in the last year where
a) obliterated through overwhelming force in all timezones through consistent grinding b) failed to pay bill c) were griefed into not wanting that space anyway
Also, pretty much all invasions start from npc stations, the lack of npc stations in certain parts of space contribute greatly to their static sov history.
I'd suggest that rfing a station into it's first cycle (drop shields) makes the station a free port, this will give more incentive for dying entities to continue fighting after stations fall (to get assets out), will allow invading entities a forward beachead and will force the defenders to react on the first rf as if it mattered anything.
Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
There are incentives, there aren't opportunities. Locals always have a logistical advantage and are capable to deploy in any part of their domain in too short time to have any meaningful small gang fights before blobs arrive.
Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
Depends on play style, those who want to move and interact do so, those who do not have all the game mechanics in place to not move and not interact with each other, sov benefits made joining awful bloated 0.0 alliances little more then npc corps.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:54:00 -
[1535]
Originally by: FellRaven
So why not wait to apply these changes until after our little SOV war? Timing is everything you know. CCP have not offered any explanation of why they need to do this now and not in say 2 months time.
What does it matter, in 2 month another war will be on and your JB network is history.
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:54:00 -
[1536]
Originally by: Furb Killer So what you are saying is that you want a pvp arena?
I never said 'Arena'. I don't want some system where fixed numbers of pilots fight other pilots, unrestricted PvP is best. But jumpbridges effectively ruin any sort of fleet maneuvering. Trying to move your fleet around a constellation becomes meaningless if the enemy can just zip light-years away in an instant, and removes some of the more tactical side of fleets.
Back in my day we had to warp to gates at 15, and we had no jumpbridges. We managed just fine, with some smart piloting and general common sense.
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AntISGhey
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:58:00 -
[1537]
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Furb Killer So what you are saying is that you want a pvp arena?
I never said 'Arena'. I don't want some system where fixed numbers of pilots fight other pilots, unrestricted PvP is best. But jumpbridges effectively ruin any sort of fleet maneuvering. Trying to move your fleet around a constellation becomes meaningless if the enemy can just zip light-years away in an instant, and removes some of the more tactical side of fleets.
Back in my day we had to warp to gates at 15, and we had no jumpbridges. We managed just fine, with some smart piloting and general common sense.
Back in my day we had warp @ 10, but i suppose you were 'special'.
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:59:00 -
[1538]
Originally by: AntISGhey
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Furb Killer So what you are saying is that you want a pvp arena?
I never said 'Arena'. I don't want some system where fixed numbers of pilots fight other pilots, unrestricted PvP is best. But jumpbridges effectively ruin any sort of fleet maneuvering. Trying to move your fleet around a constellation becomes meaningless if the enemy can just zip light-years away in an instant, and removes some of the more tactical side of fleets.
Back in my day we had to warp to gates at 15, and we had no jumpbridges. We managed just fine, with some smart piloting and general common sense.
Back in my day we had warp @ 10, but i suppose you were 'special'.
Was it 10? Eh, that was like 4-5 years ago, my memory fails me. Still, the point still stands.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 14:59:00 -
[1539]
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: FellRaven
So why not wait to apply these changes until after our little SOV war? Timing is everything you know. CCP have not offered any explanation of why they need to do this now and not in say 2 months time.
What does it matter, in 2 month another war will be on and your JB network is history.
It matters because people can plan for it and have it in place in advance they don't need to wait for the change. Still haven't heard a compelling reason to do it now and not in 2 months.
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AntISGhey
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:00:00 -
[1540]
Does it? The game I remember 5 years ago was a lot different to what it is today.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:01:00 -
[1541]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:06:08
Originally by: KFenn ITT: Unholy 0.0 carebear rage. Seriously, 0.0 should be a PvP area, not somewhere to farm sites to make your pretty wallet numbers numbers grow bigger. Don't like it, farm Level 4s in Highsec, or learn to PvP.
GJ on the plan to finally nerf carebear 0.0 CCP, it's long overdue.
Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
Originally by: AntISGhey Does it? The game I remember 5 years ago was a lot different to what it is today.
Null sec had a couple thousand characters living in it 5 years ago. Now there are tens of thousands.
Originally by: AntISGhey Back in my day we had warp @ 10, but i suppose you were 'special'.
Back in my day, I had hundreds of bookmarks because it gave me an edge, in that I could travel faster than my prey. That wasn't a good game mechanic. It was cheating, but sanctioned cheating.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:04:00 -
[1542]
Edited by: Jenn aSide on 11/05/2011 15:04:48
Originally by: Bagehi
Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
lol, CCP, masters of unintended consequences.....
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Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:04:00 -
[1543]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler
Question: Why is CCP making these changes? Answer: To much ISK in game.
Question: Why is there to much ISK in game? Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.
Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals? Answer: Botted ISK.
Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.
Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North? Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.
Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.
Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.
I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
+9000
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AntISGhey
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:06:00 -
[1544]
CCP should really post their vision of what they think nul-sec should be like and save themselves threads like this and the playerbase the time their wasting on Supercaps online.
I personally dont believe they have any vision for any area in EvE and never will, else after 8 years wouldn't we be there by now?
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Fix Lag
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:08:00 -
[1545]
The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.
Fix Lag! |
KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:08:00 -
[1546]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:02:40 Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:08:00 -
[1547]
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: bitters much
Originally by: FellRaven
So why not wait to apply these changes until after our little SOV war? Timing is everything you know. CCP have not offered any explanation of why they need to do this now and not in say 2 months time.
What does it matter, in 2 month another war will be on and your JB network is history.
It matters because people can plan for it and have it in place in advance they don't need to wait for the change. Still haven't heard a compelling reason to do it now and not in 2 months.
Because Hilmar loves NC tears is my guess
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:09:00 -
[1548]
Originally by: FellRaven
It matters because people can plan for it and have it in place in advance they don't need to wait for the change. Still haven't heard a compelling reason to do it now and not in 2 months.
Screw two months. Delay it until the already-identified and timetabled 0.0 review. Still haven't heard a compelling reason why it has to be done now and not then.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:10:00 -
[1549]
Originally by: AntISGhey CCP should really post their vision of what they think nul-sec should be like and save themselves threads like this and the playerbase the time their wasting on Supercaps online.
I personally dont believe they have any vision for any area in EvE and never will, else after 8 years wouldn't we be there by now?
This might be true. Their "plans" seem to have a worse attention span than a kid with ADD on crack.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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SmashTech
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:10:00 -
[1550]
Originally by: KFenn Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
Hell if I wanted to do this I'd live in highsec where nobody can shoot at me without getting killed--
Wait that's what already happens.
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KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:12:00 -
[1551]
Originally by: SmashTech
Originally by: KFenn Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
Hell if I wanted to do this I'd live in highsec where nobody can shoot at me without getting killed--
Wait that's what already happens.
Well if an alliance doesn't want to facilitate ship building, then they get no ships. It's easy to produce in nullsec, so long as you have a semi-decent industrial win who is supported properly by the alliance.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:12:00 -
[1552]
NC were the biggest factor in shaping the way our game plays today and yet they have the audacity to start whining when it backfires on them.
A long time ago when small roaming gangs were viable, whether they be from hostile neighbours or roams from empire, the NC(average member had poor pvp knowledge) they had the option of engaging the enemy in similar ships and similar size fleets, thus learning and getting better.
Instead they chose to get as many members in fleet as possible, in the biggest ship possible they could. I was a member of the NC then and all too often a small sized roam would enter our space, only to find us undock a fleet of bs's and carriers to engage their frig/cruiser gangs. Guess what the NC never got better at pvp and the style of bring your biggest ship/most members became the weapon of choice.
However having more members in your fleet means having to have more systems for the average members to make isk. With the size of alliances needed you had to have vast amounts of space to keep them all happy. With so much space you become far too dependant on having that JB network keeping your alliance/power bloc moving.
Even now with this diluted JB nerf you won't get the hint. You won't trim the fat, optimise your logistics by reducing member numbers and amount of space you hold. You won't raise your skill level and try to fight smaller entities with higher pvp knowledge thus raising your own(not when the people at the top are making so much isk)
So am I mad? Not at all I'm finding it ****ing hilarious that the game you helped to shape is coming to bite you on the ass. Here's hoping that those members in the NC that would love it to be so much more, actually gain a foothold in the alliances but I wouldn't hold my breath. |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:13:00 -
[1553]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:16:19
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:02:40 Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
If you pay the same for mining low ends/hr as high ends/hr, you will increase the price of ships dramatically. That is the issue. The higher the cost of ships, the higher the replacement cost, the less PVP.
Originally by: Messy Beaver NC were the biggest factor in shaping the way our game plays today and yet they have the audacity to start whining when it backfires on them.
A long time ago when small roaming gangs were viable, whether they be from hostile neighbours or roams from empire, the NC(average member had poor pvp knowledge) they had the option of engaging the enemy in similar ships and similar size fleets, thus learning and getting better.
A long time ago the same amount of null sec space was populated by a fraction of the characters currently living in it. Population density is up, therefore numbers fielded is up. If you want low numbers, the population density has to go back down. Either people have to quit or there has to be more space.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:13:00 -
[1554]
Originally by: Fix Lag The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.
They run combat bots and kill drones, then their salvager bots scoop the drone poo. Then they RMT the hell outta everything.
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Mibad
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:14:00 -
[1555]
CCP do you have any lipstick? Cause I'd like to atleast look pretty before you F*** me again.
First the anom nerfs and now jb nerfs. All you are doing is driving more players away from null sec, I expect even more people to rage quit over the endless nerfs you have been throwing out recently. You claim you want more people living in nullsec, but in reality you are just driving them away.
This doesn't hurt alliances, this hurts the average pilot. Force projection is made with titan bridges and cyno blobs.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:19:00 -
[1556]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Fix Lag The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.
They run combat bots and kill drones, then their salvager bots scoop the drone poo. Then they RMT the hell outta everything.
Look at Zydrine prices. Back in my day, when we farmed a drone 5/10 plex to build ships, zydrine sold for around 5000/unit. Takes a lot of high end mining/drone plexes farming to get it this low. You'd think someone in CCP would notice how the balance of minerals has dramatically changed.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:19:00 -
[1557]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Fix Lag The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.
They run combat bots and kill drones, then their salvager bots scoop the drone poo. Then they RMT the hell outta everything.
Ironyoverload... check your alliance mates, then check the drama on your own forums.
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Medarr
Amarr Vengance Inc. Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:22:00 -
[1558]
pffft do you guys at CCP even listen to your playerbase??? Stop messing with our 0.0
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:24:00 -
[1559]
Edited by: Naomi Wildfire on 11/05/2011 15:25:17 Sorry to say boys, but i welcome these changes.
While in the NC, traveling was fast and very safe (its already safe enough if you know how to without JBs), now you just need to add 1 jump per previous 2 jumps.
Its also a little boost to non space holders since you just need to keep an eye on 1 JB, also you dont need to worry about the opponent to bridge capitals into a cyno jammed system.
The only thing i want to add is, If BOs are allowed to use JBs, JFs should too. Those two are the only exceptions of jump drive equipped ships who can use jumpgates.
Quote: pffft do you guys at CCP even listen to your playerbase??? Stop messing with our 0.0
What exactly is "your" 0.0, i thought its CCPs game. Just because you claim stuff doesnt make it yours in the end.
I say 0.0 is mine and i like the changes.
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raging star
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:25:00 -
[1560]
Edited by: raging star on 11/05/2011 15:25:26 OK i don't know why i am doing this since CCP has proven time and time again that they don't give **** what we think or want, but here it goes. Leave 0.0 alone you are just F**King it up! don't touch it, don't look at it, if you have IDEA about tweaking something slap yourselves outside the head and walk away. The sactums where good, the jump bridge network was good. Places that required your attention and are completely ignore are HIGH SEC AND LOW SEC (specially low sec), low sec has no real incentive to be there and is really just pointless. This little tweak you guys have being doing have completely screw it up, we HAD a balance 0.0 and where having fun so why F**K with it!. we where fat and happy killing each other and having good fights but that slowly going away thanks to CCP you are a bunch of idiots
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:26:00 -
[1561]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:16:19
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:02:40 Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
If you pay the same for mining low ends/hr as high ends/hr, you will increase the price of ships dramatically. That is the issue. The higher the cost of ships, the higher the replacement cost, the less PVP.
Originally by: Messy Beaver NC were the biggest factor in shaping the way our game plays today and yet they have the audacity to start whining when it backfires on them.
A long time ago when small roaming gangs were viable, whether they be from hostile neighbours or roams from empire, the NC(average member had poor pvp knowledge) they had the option of engaging the enemy in similar ships and similar size fleets, thus learning and getting better.
A long time ago the same amount of null sec space was populated by a fraction of the characters currently living in it. Population density is up, therefore numbers fielded is up. If you want low numbers, the population density has to go back down. Either people have to quit or there has to be more space.
Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.
Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time? |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:27:00 -
[1562]
Edited by: Yeep on 11/05/2011 15:29:05
Originally by: KFenn
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
So what you're saying is the entire economy should revolve around people being paid to do awful boring things in dangerous places. You know this is a game right?
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.
Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?
Vast areas of 0.0 are empty because they're worthless. Explain again why these new small alliances want to spend billions of isk setting up in space with no advantage over empire?
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:27:00 -
[1563]
Finally a much-needed nerf to 0.0 carebears. Good thing.
Also, loving the tears.
Now only drop highsec incursion income (which is ridiculously high) so it's still worth living in 0.0 compared to highsec.
--- Drykor - AHARM |
Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:29:00 -
[1564]
Originally by: raging star Edited by: raging star on 11/05/2011 15:25:26 OK i don't know why i am doing this ... but ... we ... are a bunch of idiots].
Fixed
Again the only whines come from Space holders, mostly on NC side. You think its balanced and ok, but not everyone might think just like you.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:31:00 -
[1565]
Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Fix Lag The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.
They run combat bots and kill drones, then their salvager bots scoop the drone poo. Then they RMT the hell outta everything.
Ironyoverload... check your alliance mates, then check the drama on your own forums.
So? Were talking about DRF, the alliance with more supers than any other in the game, hell I'd bet everyone has a titan AND a super. Their members are paid cash to run their bots, they RMT hundreds of billions of isk. They threw 600 billion at PL and supply them with supers like its nothing. An alliance whos idea of sov warfare involves illegally DDOSing the opposing factions forums, ts servers and jabbers. Yes this isn't nearly as bad as a guy trying to get himself a new BS for some pew pew.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:36:00 -
[1566]
Originally by: Yeep Edited by: Yeep on 11/05/2011 15:29:05
Originally by: KFenn
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
So what you're saying is the entire economy should revolve around people being paid to do awful boring things in dangerous places. You know this is a game right?
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.
Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?
Vast areas of 0.0 are empty because they're worthless. Explain again why these new small alliances want to spend billions of isk setting up in space with no advantage over empire?
If the space is useless then why does your alliance hold it? Low income content in other areas of the game is useless to the majority of the player base, but to some its a stepping stone to greater things. That option for the low level newly created alliances isnt there, unless they attach themselves to one of the power blocs. |
KFenn
Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:36:00 -
[1567]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:16:19
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:02:40 Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
If you pay the same for mining low ends/hr as high ends/hr, you will increase the price of ships dramatically. That is the issue. The higher the cost of ships, the higher the replacement cost, the less PVP.
So pay lower for the high ends. If guys don't wanna play ball, then kick 'em, they weren't worth your time anyway. If an alliance won't work together to try and further the alliance, the alliance falls apart, simple as.
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S'qarpium D'igil
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:38:00 -
[1568]
Dear CCP, please stop changing 0.0 keep up the good work!!! I want to see more tears from people who really don't belong in 0.0 to begin with. If you're not intelligent enough to live in 0.0 after these changes, then please stay in Empire and make isk like the rest of the carebears.
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Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:39:00 -
[1569]
Oh my god, people might actually have to - gasp - take a small risk by using a jump gate instead of going from deathstar to deathstar. My god, what is Eve coming to? You mean people can no longer teleport from one end of a region to another in complete safety? Potential PvP? In MY Eve?! I DEMAND JUSTICE!!!
- "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:39:00 -
[1570]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Megy Feel
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Fix Lag The DRF actually bots minerals, just an FYI. Although I guess with Vale and Geminate back in their hands they'll be botting ISK too.
They run combat bots and kill drones, then their salvager bots scoop the drone poo. Then they RMT the hell outta everything.
Ironyoverload... check your alliance mates, then check the drama on your own forums.
So? Were talking about DRF, the alliance with more supers than any other in the game, hell I'd bet everyone has a titan AND a super. Their members are paid cash to run their bots, they RMT hundreds of billions of isk. They threw 600 billion at PL and supply them with supers like its nothing. An alliance whos idea of sov warfare involves illegally DDOSing the opposing factions forums, ts servers and jabbers. Yes this isn't nearly as bad as a guy trying to get himself a new BS for some pew pew.
So? I don't know, may be make sure your alliance is pristine before accusing other alliances of botting and RMT, otherwise you look exactly the same. Double standarts much?
ps: keep eating that propaganda mate :)
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:40:00 -
[1571]
Originally by: Messy Beaver Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.
Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?
New entities don't come to empty space because they can make more isk/hr in high sec. Systems are held simply to get between the systems that are worth holding. This is the current optimal balance based on in-game mechanics. The recent changes will likely lead to alliances leaving some systems without sov, simply because there is no need for those systems based on the cost.
P.S. I'm not your son, so you can stop using derogatory names as they only detract from reasonable debate.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:43:00 -
[1572]
Originally by: Naomi Wildfire
Originally by: raging star Edited by: raging star on 11/05/2011 15:25:26 OK i don't know why i am doing this ... but ... we ... are a bunch of idiots].
Fixed
Again the only whines come from Space holders, mostly on NC side. You think its balanced and ok, but not everyone might think just like you.
Nerfing sov is kinda silly as people just will hold less sov then, leading to a reduction in that isk sink. I have no problem living in null without sov. I've done it before.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:47:00 -
[1573]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 15:47:02
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: KFenn
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
So what you're saying is the entire economy should revolve around people being paid to do awful boring things in dangerous places. You know this is a game right?
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.
Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?
Vast areas of 0.0 are empty because they're worthless. Explain again why these new small alliances want to spend billions of isk setting up in space with no advantage over empire?
If the space is useless then why does your alliance hold it? Low income content in other areas of the game is useless to the majority of the player base, but to some its a stepping stone to greater things. That option for the low level newly created alliances isnt there, unless they attach themselves to one of the power blocs.
A lot of space being held is because of the jump bridge networks built based on the previous mechanic of upgradable space. Now that fewer systems are worth holding, now that jump bridge networks are not going to work in the same way, you will see alliances dropping space that does not benefit them.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:48:00 -
[1574]
Originally by: Megy Feel
So? I don't know, may be make sure your alliance is pristine before accusing other alliances of botting and RMT, otherwise you look exactly the same. Double standarts much?
ps: keep eating that propaganda mate :)
No alliance is pristine, not a single one. But most botters are doing so to make isk to buy ships and pay for an account or 2, not to make thousands of dollars selling isk, that takes massive numbers, such as DRF. And again, CCP needs to deal with botters, all of em, ban the entirety of em and screw the consequences.
And its the scale, do you really want 2/3 of 0.0 space controlled by an alliance whos only interest is RMT? DRF doesn't play eve to have fun and get good fights, DRF is a business, their interest is their profit margin and little else.
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Murq
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:48:00 -
[1575]
Put jump bridges next to gates. Problem solved.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:51:00 -
[1576]
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: KFenn
Originally by: Bagehi Hard to PVP without ships. It doesn't matter how much isk you have saved up running lvl 4s on alts if there aren't ships for sale. Unless you think people should have to go back to empire to buy ships on a regular basis. Because no one in their right mind is going to mine low-ends in null sec, so anything CCP does to make it more difficult to move around null is going to drive up the price of low ends and thus ships.
Well, then you need people who will mine low-ends. Do mining ops where people get paid the same, no matter what they mine. Your issue there isn't that the things you need are unavailable to you, it just you have no willing pilots. Make them willing with incentives.
If you pay the same for mining low ends/hr as high ends/hr, you will increase the price of ships dramatically. That is the issue. The higher the cost of ships, the higher the replacement cost, the less PVP.
So pay lower for the high ends. If guys don't wanna play ball, then kick 'em, they weren't worth your time anyway. If an alliance won't work together to try and further the alliance, the alliance falls apart, simple as.
Ah, micro manage the economy. Yeah, that has historically worked GREAT! Also, this is a video game, it isn't supposed to be a job. People mine to support the parts of the game they enjoy.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:52:00 -
[1577]
Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, High Reward" aspect of null sec.
*applauds CCP*
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:52:00 -
[1578]
Originally by: Megy Feel
So? I don't know, may be make sure your alliance is pristine before accusing other alliances of botting and RMT, otherwise you look exactly the same. Double standarts much?
ps: keep eating that propaganda mate :)
God what an obvious tu quoque.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:54:00 -
[1579]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, High Reward" aspect of null sec.
*applauds CCP*
Wait, there's high rewards out here? For the general membership that is, since the anom nerf?
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Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:57:00 -
[1580]
Originally by: Svennig Wait, there's high rewards out here? For the general membership that is, since the anom nerf?
Try living in Syndicate or some other region with truely horrible rats/anoms in a sea of non-blues without any jump bridges to secure safer travel and then get back to me about 'lack of high reward.'
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Sebastian Hoch
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:58:00 -
[1581]
Originally by: rcs619 The amount of b'awwing and doom-saying in this thread is amazing.
Also, all you NC people that are complaining, imagine how many billions of isk will be freed up if the NC sheds some of its extraneous jump bridges. That's more isk for ship reimbursment, POS fuel, ammo, and so on. Assuming it doesn't wind up just padding someone's pocket.
The cost of a JB network will go up, because you will need more upgraded systems to cover the same space.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:58:00 -
[1582]
Originally by: Messy Beaver Your space was dense due to the blob living in it, however vast swathes of 0.0 is empty. There's your next hint sonny, more optimised alliances lead to more newer entities setting up in their own little corner of EMPTY space because the option of joining the big blobber reduces.
Oh and if your space was so dense why was most of your space empty most of the time?
New entities don't come to empty space because they can make more isk/hr in high sec. Systems are held simply to get between the systems that are worth holding. This is the current optimal balance based on in-game mechanics. The recent changes will likely lead to alliances leaving some systems without sov, simply because there is no need for those systems based on the cost.
P.S. I'm not your son, so you can stop using derogatory names as they only detract from reasonable debate.
There are corporations/alliances out there that want to make that first step into 0.0 to gain knowledge, experience. Without the power blocs it is impossible to do atm.
Btw several of the corps at the centre of your alliance started that way, living out of pos's making less isk than they could in empire but in turn having space they could call their own.
It's a shame that they would then turn into the corps that came up with "lets hire mercs against PL to help us keep our space" as their best strategy(seriously that still keeps me chuckling) |
Degara Farat
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.11 15:59:00 -
[1583]
Killing Nullsec 1 "improvement" at the time.
Target: Northern Coalition most effective Jumpbridge Network Compliments of Team Pink Commies no doubt
Word of advice: DONT FIX WHAT ISNT BROKEN.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:01:00 -
[1584]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Try living in Syndicate or some other region with truely horrible rats/anoms in a sea of non-blues without any jump bridges to secure safer travel and then get back to me about 'lack of high reward.'
The Syndicate thats full of level 4 mission agents? Or some other Syndicate?
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:02:00 -
[1585]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/05/2011 16:02:55
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Yep, and I don't like those requirements vOv. They're a horrible way of excluding players from playing with their corps/and alliances, and I'd love some of the basics to be streamlined, like travel distance. Not necessarily nerfed, but similar to the extent that your jump range isn't the factor that keeps you from playing EVE.
What exactly are you wasting time on?
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Leelo dallasmultipas
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:04:00 -
[1586]
Another lovely change that gives AFK cloakers some more stuff to do while they visit in 0.0. The people who live there, and try to make isk there will be most affected. They will be the ones ganked on their way to an escalation or run down while moving minerals. You ask: is this not better? Shouldn't 0.0 be more unsafe than Empire? Well yes, it should, but only for those who do not live there. 0.0 should be relatively safe to the residents because of all the isk they have paid to make it so, the wars they fought to control the region in which they currently live. Is CCP reading this? Probably not, so I'll not drag on, this is sad. Yet again CCP reinforces the belief that they live in High-sec with the carebears, and come out to 0.0 as a weekend trip. Have you considered how the new jump bridges will be fueled? Need we all be flying around orcas now? Now instead of 1-4 trips with a hauler full of LO, we'll be doing three times that... you want to make logistical teams suicide? Make them spend DAYS taking down and putting up POSes in other systems... not only are safe POSes in what used to be isk making systems going offline due to the lack of isk able to be made in them but now more will be going offline because they are a pain in the a** to move. "We're changing the Jump Bridges better work out a new route for your logistics" you claim to be meeting the CSM later about this change at yet you tell us all to move our jump bridge networks now? I think you've already made up your minds.. the CSM will likely not have any affect on your decision... lovely... Oh well... didn't want that subscription anyway.
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Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:04:00 -
[1587]
Originally by: Yeep The Syndicate thats full of level 4 mission agents? Or some other Syndicate?
You are, without a doubt, the first person to ever claim a bounty of PvE opportunities in Syndicate.
Congratulations to you, Captian.
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Sebastian Hoch
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:04:00 -
[1588]
Originally by: AntISGhey CCP should really post their vision of what they think nul-sec should be like and save themselves threads like this and the playerbase the time their wasting on Supercaps online.
I personally dont believe they have any vision for any area in EvE and never will, else after 8 years wouldn't we be there by now?
Yes, please. What is CCP's vision for nullsec? I assume there is one?
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bp920091
Killer Koalas R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:05:00 -
[1589]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, LOW/No Reward" aspect of null sec.
*applauds CCP*
Fixed that for you.
Please also note who supports this change and who opposes it. Those who oppose it are 0.0 holders who LIVE in 0.0, and those who support it are either highsec players, lowsec players (im looking RIGHT at you Liang), Botters (DRF, who dont care about the state of 0.0, as long as they can make REAL LIFE cash by playing eve illegally), or Pandemic Legion (who has countless titans and does not really hold ANY space)
End result. People who support this change will not be affected by it, people who oppose are affected by it, and CCP wants everything to be highsec.
How about this, for a good risk/reward relationship, make 0.0 far more PROFITABLE, as it is far more dangerous (ever heard of doomsdays, bombs, interdiction spheres, and other 0.0 goodies)
The idea is not terrible, but the way to "fix" it is.
CCP, go play eve out in 0.0 and see what it is like nowadays.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:07:00 -
[1590]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Originally by: Svennig Wait, there's high rewards out here? For the general membership that is, since the anom nerf?
Try living in Syndicate or some other region with truely horrible rats/anoms in a sea of non-blues without any jump bridges to secure safer travel and then get back to me about 'lack of high reward.'
Take Sov. It's better than Syndicate. I can see the poster now.
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:08:00 -
[1591]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Originally by: Yeep The Syndicate thats full of level 4 mission agents? Or some other Syndicate?
You are, without a doubt, the first person to ever claim a bounty of PvE opportunities in Syndicate.
Congratulations to you, Captian.
Yeah, because I'm definitely not a member of an alliance that grew up in Syndicate so theres no way I could know anything about making money there.
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Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:16:00 -
[1592]
Originally by: bp920091
Please also note who supports this change and who opposes it. Those who oppose it are 0.0 holders who LIVE in 0.0, and those who support it are either highsec players, lowsec players (im looking RIGHT at you Liang), Botters (DRF, who dont care about the state of 0.0, as long as they can make REAL LIFE cash by playing eve illegally), or Pandemic Legion (who has countless titans and does not really hold ANY space)
You forgot to mention small gang PvP'ers who roam out to your sov space for fights who don't have access to jump networks.
This change will certainly up our profile for killing your bears and generating response fleets that we get to fight or dodge. Certainly effects us.
Quote: How about this, for a good risk/reward relationship, make 0.0 far more PROFITABLE, as it is far more dangerous (ever heard of doomsdays, bombs, interdiction spheres, and other 0.0 goodies)
Your space is full of cloaky T3's running anoms and plexes. It's pleanty profitable. Non-Sov entities have been living in null sec for years with all the doomsday/bombs/interdiction threats and much larger blobbing SOV entities without the benefit of jump bridges or even decent true-sec rats to harvest.
Harden up.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:23:00 -
[1593]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 16:24:20
Originally by: Messy Beaver There are corporations/alliances out there that want to make that first step into 0.0 to gain knowledge, experience. Without the power blocs it is impossible to do atm.
Btw several of the corps at the centre of your alliance started that way, living out of pos's making less isk than they could in empire but in turn having space they could call their own.
It's a shame that they would then turn into the corps that came up with "lets hire mercs against PL to help us keep our space" as their best strategy(seriously that still keeps me chuckling)
I started out that way. Then the NC of that time rolled us (D2, Razer, and friends). Then we did it again, but in the NE this time. We got rolled again (don't remember which long dead alliances that time). Then I joined IAC who were rolled by goons and -A-. Then we joined another that was rolled by the SC. Then another that died because of the threat of the SC. Then another that was an NC pet, then it became an SC pet, then the NC killed it. Then an Atlas pet, rolled by PL and the testies. Then an NC member, rolled by the DRF. I'm not a coalition fanboi.
Point is, many null corps started out like that. Many long time null players remember those days. I honestly could care less what the NC is doing right now. I haven't been flying with them since they let two idiots suicide super fleets into lag multiple times and kept giving him the ability to call CTAs. I don't like blobs. I don't like lag. These changes to null aren't going to help either problem.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Astronomix
Agony Unleashed
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:24:00 -
[1594]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis You forgot to mention small gang PvP'ers who roam out to your sov space for fights who don't have access to jump networks.
This change will certainly up our profile for killing your bears and generating response fleets that we get to fight or dodge. Certainly effects us.
Non-Sov entities have been living in null sec for years with all the doomsday/bombs/interdiction threats and much larger blobbing SOV entities without the benefit of jump bridges or even decent true-sec rats to harvest.
Nail hit on the head by Nestor here.
This certainly affects those who don't have sov but fight those who do hold sov in a big, big way.
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:24:00 -
[1595]
Dudes stop spamming and use your edit function, its against the rules to post after your own post
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Cedori
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:24:00 -
[1596]
Edited by: Cedori on 11/05/2011 16:32:11 Edited by: Cedori on 11/05/2011 16:25:15 can totally see the removing of jump capable ships from using Jumpbridges, but I would have tried to adjust it some. Make it so Cyno Generators work under cyno jammers, and that Cyno Generators work like jump bridges W/R/T Standings/Passwords.
Conventional Fleets can down cynojammers (and cynogens) pretty easily already, but this would give an advantage to "owning space" on the defensive side.
The goal should be a balance between offense and defense, and this change is far to balanced on in favor of offense.
Knocking down the JB network to 1jb/1sys dramatically reduces it's defensive capabilities.
Knocking out Caps using JB (which makes sense IMO) dramatically reduces it even more.
You need to add a way for alliances to be able to bring in defensive cap fleets. Cyno Generators working under Jammers and based on standings/Passwords should work.
Basically this strikes me as an "overnerf" adjustment.
Edited: Fixed a small typo that was kindly pointed out to me!
This post represents the views of me, myself, and I. Nothing said should be attributed to my corp or alliance, otherwise I might be whipped with a strand of wet-spaghetti! |
Nestor Laurenitis
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:27:00 -
[1597]
Originally by: Yeep Yeah, because I'm definitely not a member of an alliance that grew up in Syndicate so theres no way I could know anything about making money there.
Apparently not.
If Syndicate was more profitable Goons wouldn't only live there when they are regrouping.
I'm sure your alliance chooses to support a massive SOV infrastructure in Deklein because it's so much less profitable than their ancestral grounds in Syndicate.
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ANGAL 2000
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:27:00 -
[1598]
Originally by: bp920091
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis Putting the High Risk back into the "High Risk, LOW/No Reward" aspect of null sec.
*applauds CCP*
Fixed that for you.
Please also note who supports this change and who opposes it. Those who oppose it are 0.0 holders who LIVE in 0.0, and those who support it are either highsec players, lowsec players (im looking RIGHT at you Liang), Botters (DRF, who dont care about the state of 0.0, as long as they can make REAL LIFE cash by playing eve illegally), or Pandemic Legion (who has countless titans and does not really hold ANY space)
End result. People who support this change will not be affected by it, people who oppose are affected by it, and CCP wants everything to be highsec.
How about this, for a good risk/reward relationship, make 0.0 far more PROFITABLE, as it is far more dangerous (ever heard of doomsdays, bombs, interdiction spheres, and other 0.0 goodies)
The idea is not terrible, but the way to "fix" it is.
CCP, go play eve out in 0.0 and see what it is like nowadays.
So ill point out some fun facts for you 1 there are member of ever alliance from 0.0 saying yes to this even your own. (not much left of that bit of rage) 2 the head of the csm have backed this change so he claims TOO on part (he lies all the time) 3 you are upset about the changes given the fact you have no jb. (we killed them) 4 this is one of the best 0.0 changes for a long time and are welcomed from delve to the great Russian Empires (not RMT but a game empier they have used their isk to build and buy supers and replace ships lost) 5 you mad son (HES MAD)
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Naomi Wildfire
Amarr Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:27:00 -
[1599]
Quote: Make it so Cyno Beacons work under cyno jammers, and that Cyno Beacons work like jump bridges W/R/T Standings/Passwords.
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Drykor
Minmatar Aperture Harmonics K162
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:27:00 -
[1600]
Originally by: Leelo dallasmultipas 0.0 should be relatively safe to the residents because of all the isk they have paid to make it so, the wars they fought to control the region in which they currently live.
Did you make this up yourself? Or has CCP ever actually told you this? Because as far as I know, it's complete and utter bs.
--- Drykor - AHARM |
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ANGAL 2000
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:32:00 -
[1601]
Originally by: Drykor
Originally by: Leelo dallasmultipas 0.0 should be relatively safe to the residents because of all the isk they have paid to make it so, the wars they fought to control the region in which they currently live.
Did you make this up yourself? Or has CCP ever actually told you this? Because as far as I know, it's complete and utter bs.
I think its an NC line. BFF anyone?
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:34:00 -
[1602]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis
Originally by: Yeep Yeah, because I'm definitely not a member of an alliance that grew up in Syndicate so theres no way I could know anything about making money there.
Apparently not.
If Syndicate was more profitable Goons wouldn't only live there when they are regrouping.
I'm sure your alliance chooses to support a massive SOV infrastructure in Deklein because it's so much less profitable than their ancestral grounds in Syndicate.
Goons hold some of the best space in Eve. Why would they go back to Syndicate? The anom nerf was a boost to Goons. The JB change impacts Goons the least of most alliances, simply because they are close enough to empire, with enough buffer on all null sec sides to not have to worry about other null alliances hitting them. By all rights, the Goons should be singing the praises of these two changes because they stand to benefit the most from them. They seem to only be complaining because they either see how badly CCP has been handling null in general or because they are gleefully trolling everyone.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Svennig
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:36:00 -
[1603]
Originally by: Nestor Laurenitis Edited by: Nestor Laurenitis on 11/05/2011 16:19:15
Originally by: Svennig
Take Sov. It's better than Syndicate. I can see the poster now.
Yeah, we don't do Sov. We'd mouth shoot our mouth first.
Yeah, unfortunately you might have missed the sarcasm in my post.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:39:00 -
[1604]
Originally by: Bagehi Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 16:24:20
Originally by: Messy Beaver There are corporations/alliances out there that want to make that first step into 0.0 to gain knowledge, experience. Without the power blocs it is impossible to do atm.
Btw several of the corps at the centre of your alliance started that way, living out of pos's making less isk than they could in empire but in turn having space they could call their own.
It's a shame that they would then turn into the corps that came up with "lets hire mercs against PL to help us keep our space" as their best strategy(seriously that still keeps me chuckling)
I started out that way. Then the NC of that time rolled us (D2, Razer, and friends). Then we did it again, but in the NE this time. We got rolled again (don't remember which long dead alliances that time). Then I joined IAC who were rolled by goons and -A-. Then we joined another that was rolled by the SC. Then another that died because of the threat of the SC. Then another that was an NC pet, then it became an SC pet, then the NC killed it. Then an Atlas pet, rolled by PL and the testies. Then an NC member, rolled by the DRF. I'm not a coalition fanboi.
Point is, many null corps started out like that. Many long time null players remember those days. I honestly could care less what the NC is doing right now. I haven't been flying with them since they let two idiots suicide super fleets into lag multiple times and kept giving him the ability to call CTAs. I don't like blobs. I don't like lag. These changes to null aren't going to help either problem.
You are 100% right these changes wont affect that, the changes do not go far enough in my opinion. I just find it funny that most of the people complaining belong to the offending power blocs responsible for the shambles that is the current 0.0 mechanics. |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:41:00 -
[1605]
Originally by: Messy Beaver You are 100% right these changes wont affect that, the changes do not go far enough in my opinion. I just find it funny that most of the people complaining belong to the offending power blocs responsible for the shambles that is the current 0.0 mechanics.
The power blocs are not responsible. They are the optimal solution for the current game mechanics. CCP needs to fix the game mechanics, this doesn't do it.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Kblackjack54
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:44:00 -
[1606]
Again all we see here are a bunch of script kiddies let loose in a room with pencils and CCP have published what they managed to write on the walls.
Monkeys and typewriters springs to mind here, you have so little idea what makes the average player actually tick itÆs unreal.
LetÆs look at the way players interact, seem to be a pet theme of this box of monsters you keep up there as in truth there two distinct groups, Mains and Alts, mains fight, alts support mains, thatÆs how it works, Mains love to travel, does not matter how, JBÆs are great when you have em but other than that you still travel, they are in the main supported by altÆs to provide finance for ships ect, knocking the JBÆs network will harm only this isk making potential in 0.0, possibly driving it out of null sec back into empire, kind of defeats the object really as what remains will require protecting to be functional and consume even more time/resources than currently expended as players defend there sectors from disruptive insurgent forces rather than engage in PvP interaction as these changes has professed to be aimed at doing.
AltÆs on the other hand rarely travel far, there activities revolve around ratting P.I. and industry, they interact only with there corp/ alliance members and due to intel avoid anyone else at ALL costs, limiting JBÆs to a single unit per system will not effect this except to reduce the personal travel they undertake limited as it is even more and concentrate them into smaller areas of space, may reduce there isk generating capacity but only for a few days until assets are moved, all other transportation is undertaken by JF anyway so JBÆs do not effect this at all really, as for the now empty systems, well I guess the Monkeys can dream up something for those to
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:47:00 -
[1607]
HTFU?
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Taipion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:50:00 -
[1608]
BULL****:
"The first change is the removal of ships with jumpdrives from the jumpbridge eligibility list. This isnÆt very dramatic and long overdue. Basically if your ship has a jumpdrive, it canÆt use the jumpbridge (Black Ops ships are exempt from this rule). This change will go in on the 17th of this month."
THIS does mean, Freighters may use JBs and JumpFreighters may NOT.
CCP Forum-Post-Quality == CCP Patch/Fixing/Tweaking-Quality
-.-
Someone fix CCP, please.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:51:00 -
[1609]
Originally by: Zey Nadar
Originally by: Major Stallion
pretty sure this change was made BECAUSE of how the game was played. 0.0 Logistics has been a joke the last 4 years..Let's start to see the 0.0 empires actually have to depend on their space and their pilots for more than LOLTECHNETIUM
What would that be? seeing as how they just nerfed the reason to defend it for military sov upgrades.
uhhh rely on your pilots to mine, build, and support your infrastructure, and not JITA? Theres a horrible problem where an alliance in the outer reaches of 0.0 can still make it to Jita and back in less time than it would take me to traverse a small 0.0 region looking for targets. CCP is now forcing the issue a little bit more by making it harder to get to jita from 744523585 jumps away, and you dont like it.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.11 16:53:00 -
[1610]
Originally by: Lyric Lahnder For the first time in a while I feel sorry for the people who live in null sec.
I have tried three separate times to live and work in null sec in the larger alliances and always left broke. Unless you own moons you cant make any money in null sec unless you can spend your entire day playing eve which is impossible for any one with a job/wife/kids. It seems the anomaly nerf made this much worse.
Im in a chat channel of people who run missions together(in other words Huge fuzzy care bears) and we've seen a huge influx of people from larger null sec alliances who have packed their bags and returned to empire because its impossible to make money out their and fight wars. Im certain this change will also see this number increase.
So... Your trying to increase conflict in null sec and on top of that your also nerfing rewards to players in null sec. Which means people will fight more(lose more) and have fewer recourses to replace it.
Im not entirely sure this what you want to go for ccp. When ever I try to explain to some one why eve is different from other MMO's I explain the dynamics and politics of null sec. Now it seems you are driving people away from one of the major things that makes eve unique.
I think im starting to understand what Iteration as in (ship iteration as mentioned by the csm) means. If your dont do balancing and iteration the game becomes a huge tug of war between the groups of players: Care Bears vs Null sec people vs pirates in low sec vs merc's etc. They all want certain changes with in the frame work of the game that benefit them but when it happens it screws one or all of the other groups.
CCP is Unique because it stress' its more then the money it makes and actually gives a damn what the players think. You need to listen to the CSM well when they head up there to see you. If this thread on the JB change doesn't change your mind about your current approach to null sec perhaps they will.
Soundwave's words are pretty clear. They don't really care about us. They want us to pay to play their game and then play it their way. They'll do whatever misguided efforts they believe will result in their 'playstyle'. Its almost like they've forgotten the mistakes SOE did with SWG and that killed that game and essentially SOE.
Your post is well written though and indeed much like the anomaly nerf, this will not lead to more conflict, it will lead to less. CCP doesn't seem to understand, the majority of players are not the folks that can log on 8 hours a day its the guy or gal that plays couple hours a day or a few days a week. The harder you make logistics for them, the longer it takes them to make isk the more time they spend outside of combat just trying to build up.
The CSM is a joke and has been, at least one and I think two are former CCP employees who couldn't affect game change at CCP but joined the CSM thinking they could there? I mean seriously how big an ego do they have. Over half of the CSM have been in it multiple times and really accomplished nothing, you see the CSM is nothing but a PR move. It makes you think you have power but you have none.
The CCP that put the game before the money died years ago, its been a slow death but it is no more. The shell remains but the heart is gone. Soundwave's promises that they'll buff things later are hollow, CCP has not really introduced any major new ships or tactics in 2 years. They haven't because they've not been having the majority of their design staff work on EVE, they are milking EVE for all they can. Unless they find their heart and redouble their efforts EVE will begin to decline as her golden age comes to a close. Incarna is a joke of the carrot dangled for so many years and was not programmed in 6 years. It too like many game systems will sit years without completion because EVE is CCPs testbed not its baby anymore.
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Kriegman
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:01:00 -
[1611]
Thats alright bro's, we can live with nerf:
1) Bot a lot 2) Fly caps and supercaps with JD 3) Win EVE
This JB nerf is ******ed if CCP thinks that it will invite more people to 0.0. The JB networks help average indy, ratter, subcap PvP pilot to get around the gate camps. The botters, rmters, and elite PvP dudes have their titans ready to go at every POS to bridge on demand.
Whats the point holding SOV anyways? The JB was the main convenience factor for capturing SOV, otherwise it is better to live in NPC space in a POS
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SeniraSource
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:03:00 -
[1612]
Edited by: SeniraSource on 11/05/2011 17:03:47 What you all *****ing about it one per SYSTEM... which means you can have another next door :D ... you only have to do one jump you arkanor mining care bears... does mean I can bubble the connections in my hic and **** you all though :D
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Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:03:00 -
[1613]
So you'll have to actually take one gate to get to your next jump bridge?
O the horror.
Changes like this are long overdue.
Now let's see cool-own periods on capital jump drives as well, and maybe we'll continue to get rid of instant-mega-fleets all over the damn map.
Somebody said this change is the end game that kills pvp. Been hearing that since '05. It wasn't true then, won't be true now.
GG CCP.
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J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:05:00 -
[1614]
Wow, quite the Threadnaught....it grew 25 pages overnight. Love the tears, love the tears...I'm soaking wet from wading through them all. Learned a lot about JB's and more about the gameplay in 0.0 though, so it's not all a waste of space. Keep it coming! ~Gnosis~ |
Elmore Jones
The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:07:00 -
[1615]
Aw CCP... Whut? What the hell? I understand yo want to intorduce better fights in 0.0 but stripping the super out of supercaps is the way not this :( Or at least slap the supercaps first before making the logistics teams heads explode :P
Any alliance strong already in titans isnt affected too much here in terms of mass deployment of ships, but new and smaller entities will be crushed under the Avatar's hoof.
__________________________________________________
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:11:00 -
[1616]
Originally by: Carcusian So you'll have to actually take one gate to get to your next jump bridge?
O the horror.
Changes like this are long overdue.
Now let's see cool-own periods on capital jump drives as well, and maybe we'll continue to get rid of instant-mega-fleets all over the damn map.
Somebody said this change is the end game that kills pvp. Been hearing that since '05. It wasn't true then, won't be true now.
GG CCP.
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:16:00 -
[1617]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Messy Beaver You are 100% right these changes wont affect that, the changes do not go far enough in my opinion. I just find it funny that most of the people complaining belong to the offending power blocs responsible for the shambles that is the current 0.0 mechanics.
The power blocs are not responsible. They are the optimal solution for the current game mechanics. CCP needs to fix the game mechanics, this doesn't do it.
You think the player base has no responsibility in changes CCP makes to the game?
The players asked for a more all round space simulation(cant remember back that far?).......CCP gives you Incarna walking in stations
Player base asked for a change to the pos sov system.......CCP gives you the horrendous system we have today
Player base asked for customisable ships.......CCP gave you T3 cruisers
Don't think that the bears whining about travel times gave us JB's, warp to 0 etc?
The power blocs shaped this game so that small roams, smaller scale pvp became the preverbial ugly bird in a bar, only attractive when looked through beer goggles or to those with a fetish for it.
My point in this horrible post? The players have shaped this game just as much as CCP have. Take a look at your own playstyle before crying to CCP asking for changes. |
El Liptonez
Trauma Ward Black Legion.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:17:00 -
[1618]
I love how all tears in this thread come from NC members.
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Tyraeil Starblade
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:18:00 -
[1619]
10/10
CCP has successfully trolled every NC carebear in Eve.
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Organa
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:21:00 -
[1620]
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
if it takes you days or even hours to form a fleet your doing it wrong
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Suzzana Z
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:22:00 -
[1621]
Is it CCCP the new owner of CCP or are CCP a former CCCP Officer
You are so stupid in your new ide off 0.0 living
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Mastertz
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:22:00 -
[1622]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Carcusian So you'll have to actually take one gate to get to your next jump bridge?
O the horror.
Changes like this are long overdue.
Now let's see cool-own periods on capital jump drives as well, and maybe we'll continue to get rid of instant-mega-fleets all over the damn map.
Somebody said this change is the end game that kills pvp. Been hearing that since '05. It wasn't true then, won't be true now.
GG CCP.
Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
This is why you lost all your space. lol.
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IskPlease
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:25:00 -
[1623]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Hide your tengus, hide your LP, coz they'r nerfin' everybody out here!
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Iece Quaan
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:28:00 -
[1624]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Zamiq
Again, you have not told us why this change will increase the chances of this non-consensual pvp that you keep talking about. I mean the people with an intel channel and a JB will stay as people with an intel channel and a JB and it does not take a genius to figure out that if a roaming gang has been spotted 3 jumps away from a JB location then its not safe to go there.
It increases traffic in areas that are more accessible to players outside your alliance. It's a given that a POS with guns, shields and a jumpbridge to another friendly POS is inherently safer than a stargate. While it's certainly possible to kill people at POSs, it's a bit more complex than just roaming around, killing people in open space.
Ignorance. PVP anyplace in eve, not just in 0.0, depends far more on your knowledge of and ability to manipulate session timers, immunity timers, and aggression mechanics than the simple fact that a JB exists.
This will change nothing; those of us skilled at avoiding ( or forcing ) pvp will see no change other than the amount of time it takes to get from point A to point B. The only thing you've done is make day-to-day logistics even more of a soul-crushing grind than it already is.
If you want MOAR PVP then you need to take a serious look at the way aggression and interdiction mechanics work. It is, and always has been, absolutely trivial to avoid fights. The general idea that you need to patrol your own space in order to keep it secure is sound; the problem is that you can never, ever remove six dudes who camp gates with off-grid bookmarks and improved cloaks. And you've just given them double the number of points to afk camp. Asymmetrical conflict should be possible, but what's the point of holding sov space if it doesn't give you any benefits?
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Sirus Prime
Caldari Xero Corporation SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:32:00 -
[1625]
Originally by: Night Epoch One JB per system? I expect a threadnaught.
EMBRACE THE THREADNAUGHT OF OUR RAGE CCP!!! QUIT F**KING UP MY GAME EXPERIENCE!!!
/rage
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Kalissa
Sacred Templars RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:34:00 -
[1626]
All these tears do indeed make my day, all the crying about having to take risks and how smaller alliances will be hit when actually since smaller alliances own less space and have less JB's they will be hit less. Life out in 0.0 is supposed to be risky, for too long people have had it too easy.
Yes there will be gatecamps, so bloody well deal with it thats what PVP is about and in the end PVP is what makes EVE tick without that everything falls apart for everyone.
I personally will be hit by this moving around won't be as convenient or risk free as it is now but as I've said in a previous post this idea is well overdue, good on you CCP!
(And looking back at previous posts it does seem like most of the bleating is coming from the NC doesn't it? That gives me a nice warm feeling inside )
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:45:00 -
[1627]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really.
Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.
The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.
Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.
Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:47:00 -
[1628]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Bagehi Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really.
Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.
The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.
Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.
Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
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Tamahra
Gallente Apina.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:47:00 -
[1629]
Take strategy games: What makes territorial conflicts interesting is when there are several borders to be defended. But if you can move your troops in no time to any border, then there is effectively only one border that you have to defend, and then a conflict gets static and/or uninteresting. Thats what we mostly have in Eve right now, and it seems CCP is going to change that to the better.
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Iece Quaan
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:49:00 -
[1630]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Purrp Ledone
Originally by: Weaselior
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I think we're doing this in terms of longer scale development, at least to some extent. We're developing the plan, which we'll share with the CSM this month, and hopefully we'll be able to show the players shortly after that.
This is an isolated change that has been slated to happen for a while.
seriously why wasn't "removing guns from JB pos" considered since it's stupid easy to do, does a better job than your proposal, and doesn't increase tedium
CCP Soundwave, can you elaborate on whether this option was considered, and if so, why it was rejected?
A wide range of options were considered, among those, different levels of guns on the POS. Everything from changing the fitting requirements to stripping them entirely. At the end of the day, I'm not entirely thrilled about basing smaller scale pvp around POSs. I really like the idea of having it out on the open, at a "neutral" structure like gates. It's much more visible than having to track down a POS that will still give your opponent an advantage.
Are you ****ing serious? TIL a static structure in space, that I have to fuel using vulnerable and powerless ships, and is itself vulnerable to destruction, shouldn't give me any kind of ingame advantage- even when paired with modules that you need to own SOV to deploy.
Please, fire yourself.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:49:00 -
[1631]
Originally by: Cellistara Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
Where did those trillions from moon goo go? Why were all the SCs / Titans sold rather than used in house. Where did all that isk go
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Cailais
Amarr Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:50:00 -
[1632]
My initial thoughts I've added to my latest blog post (here).
tl;dr version is its not a simple black and white issue to what extent jump bridges aid, or hinder conflict within null sec.
C.
the hydrostatic capsule blog
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:54:00 -
[1633]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.
And PL is basically full of trust fund babies who can't understand why people are upset the public library is closing to make room for a polo field because daddy has a whole room full of books and you can totally play polo. Oh you don't have a horse? I guess you can play on foot but I'm still going to use the horse daddy bought me.
See, I can do personal insults too.
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Infinion
Caldari Awesome Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:58:00 -
[1634]
Edited by: Infinion on 11/05/2011 18:00:06 Increasing the chances of pvp by nerfing jump bridges is fine, but maybe that's not exactly what is needed to make pvp fresh again and more frequent. Maybe it's time to look at things that will arouse more interest in roaming for a fight.
-Is there a problem with the stargate model we have in eve? Is it fine to have stargates as the most obvious and most frequent place for a pvp encounter or should it occur in more places?
-What about looking into tactics? The concept for fleet formations has been around for ages and still has been untouched. It could be a great improvement to a better pvp experience; maybe people will roam as an excuse to look at a cool formation?
-What about the idea ccp had to target a ship's subsystems like engines, weapon systems, shields, and then the hull itself? Maybe the whole shield/armor/hull hp of every ship is too simplified and starting to age in our combat system? Why should a ship that is under fire only last for 15 seconds before exploding? Does it need to be that short for it to be scalable in large scale combat? Why does it need to be scalable? Would lengthening the time it takes to kill a ship if you don't target subsystems make losing your ship more fulfilling? What is time worth and why should most of that time be spent making money versus fighting? Would taking longer to die constitute more regret or satisfaction when you think about what it took to earn that ship?
If it's currently so easy to avoid a pvp encounter doesn't it raise the question of why it's being avoided and whether fights still offer a quality pvp experience or not? Has pvp become sort of predictable and bland tasting?
why is it that over the past 8 years we have been contempt with just adding more ships to the game instead of evolving the core aspects of pvp?
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 17:59:00 -
[1635]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 18:02:50 To be fair. PL is a very narrow one sided alliance.
Very few ppl here seem to have an oppinion or care whats good for the game.. only whats good for their own current playstyle. I guesss thats natural.
Sad to see delusional devs like soundwave trying to ruin their own game. and im not just talking about his 7day(omfg) change.
The only thing i can think of is: 1 account = 1 vote.. cancel alt+state reason, only vote you have.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:01:00 -
[1636]
Now CCP did an experiment and we got just a small glimpse of what would happen if they ever touch L4's
On a serious note, while the change sounds not bad, the not complex approach to 0.0 and game in overall problems seems horrible. "We will sit over 0.0 somewhere around the winter, soon tm blah blah" - nah, not going to work.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:03:00 -
[1637]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Cellistara Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
Where did those trillions from moon goo go? Why were all the SCs / Titans sold rather than used in house. Where did all that isk go
Because sov costs isk. Building Ihub and upgrading them costs ****tons of isk, managing towers costs isk, jumpbridges cost lots of isk, CSAAs cost more isk, subcap reimbursments cost isk, cap reimbursments cost isk, fun costs isk, and with what little is left over from that goes to maybe helping people get a supercap, or it goes to getting a titan for bridging. Everything costs isk, ya know, unless you live in npc 0.0 and cheaters throw billions of isk and supers at you by the truck load.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:05:00 -
[1638]
Originally by: Cedori
Conventional Fleets can down cynojammers (and cynogens) pretty easily already, but this would give an advantage to "owning space" on the defensive side.
ahhhhhhhhhh hahahahahaha lmao, right
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:10:00 -
[1639]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 18:12:18
Originally by: Messy Beaver
Originally by: Bagehi The power blocs are not responsible. They are the optimal solution for the current game mechanics. CCP needs to fix the game mechanics, this doesn't do it.
You think the player base has no responsibility in changes CCP makes to the game?
The players asked for a more all round space simulation(cant remember back that far?).......CCP gives you Incarna walking in stations
Player base asked for a change to the pos sov system.......CCP gives you the horrendous system we have today
Player base asked for customisable ships.......CCP gave you T3 cruisers
Don't think that the bears whining about travel times gave us JB's, warp to 0 etc?
The power blocs shaped this game so that small roams, smaller scale pvp became the preverbial ugly bird in a bar, only attractive when looked through beer goggles or to those with a fetish for it.
My point in this horrible post? The players have shaped this game just as much as CCP have. Take a look at your own playstyle before crying to CCP asking for changes.
If I recall correctly, Incarna was promised years ago and put on the back burner. That and flying on planets. CCP pulled Incarna off the shelf when they picked up the WoD IP as a way to test their code before going live with the WoD MMO. Perhaps you remember that differently.
Players have been asking for POS mechanics to be changed. Instead of changing them, CCP built a new sov mechanic that was not as centered on them. Honestly, not that bad compared to how it used to be, but still not what the players had asked for.
Players asked for customizable ships, CCP delivered. No problems there.
JB's were given because people started asking "why hold sov?" Then CCP made a bigger isk sink out of it and people asked "why hold sov?" and we got the anoms. Now CCP is taking the carrots back and hoping people forgot the questions that led to those being introduced. Why hold sov? Why pay for sov? You really only need it for a few systems were you want the use of stations and a the deep neg null sec systems that you get good anoms from. The rest of the systems are just filler that no one wants.
The mechanics of the game and the desire of CCP to populate null sec is why the population density in null has skyrocketed and why small scale null warfare has diminished.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Komen
Gallente The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:13:00 -
[1640]
What is it with CCP and the middle of the year? Last year it was '18 months, etc.' and now this, with a very split player base. As an outsider, the fact that this basically is split right down the line on 'people who use JB's are against', 'people who don't are for' (mostly, I know there are a few exceptions but the vast majority, you can predict their support or antagonism by which bloc they belong to) is interesting to watch. I would hope that some compromise solution could be had, and that CCP is willing to listen to alternatives. It's interesting that those who are against this have themselves proposed a nerf to their major source of income. Also, the leader of the CSM will be solidly in the 'against' block, so we'll see how that turns out.
Ah, Eve development as spectator sport. So glad I still hang around.
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erikjan86
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:13:00 -
[1641]
dont mess with the jb's its alliance space and if youre invading it and want space, take a fight for it and don't get in tears and complain by ccp about the jb network. and if this is going to hapen i think alot of people will stop playing eve online its makes **** of 0.0
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Enthral
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:18:00 -
[1642]
Originally by: Tamahra Take strategy games: What makes territorial conflicts interesting is when there are several borders to be defended. But if you can move your troops in no time to any border, then there is effectively only one border that you have to defend, and then a conflict gets static and/or uninteresting. Thats what we mostly have in Eve right now, and it seems CCP is going to change that to the better.
And you would be right, if you could "assign" people to sit on a border for days or weeks on end, 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict. With real people, it simply doesn't work that way. Changing the JB mechanics actually waters down whatever little strategy exists in alliance warfare, and it sure makes daily logistics nasty. It will also have the opposite effect CCP thinks it will, as people will be unwilling to travel for 20 minutes just to address small roaming gangs passing through.
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speedek
Spricer WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:21:00 -
[1643]
CCP honestly: ♥
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Tamahra
Gallente Apina.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:29:00 -
[1644]
Edited by: Tamahra on 11/05/2011 18:30:37
Originally by: Enthral
Originally by: Tamahra Take strategy games: What makes territorial conflicts interesting is when there are several borders to be defended. But if you can move your troops in no time to any border, then there is effectively only one border that you have to defend, and then a conflict gets static and/or uninteresting. Thats what we mostly have in Eve right now, and it seems CCP is going to change that to the better.
And you would be right, if you could "assign" people to sit on a border for days or weeks on end, 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict. With real people, it simply doesn't work that way. Changing the JB mechanics actually waters down whatever little strategy exists in alliance warfare, and it sure makes daily logistics nasty. It will also have the opposite effect CCP thinks it will, as people will be unwilling to travel for 20 minutes just to address small roaming gangs passing through.
Im going through your arguments, one by one:
And you would be right, if you could "assign" people to sit on a border for days or weeks on end, 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict. With real people, it simply doesn't work that way.
People won¦t sit on a border for days or weeks 24 hours per day, waiting for conflict, that¦s right. And that¦s exactly what opens up opportunities for attacking forces. The bigger the territory of the defender, the more opportunities for attackers arise. Do you see, where im going with this? I believe the changes will make Eve alot more dynamic.
Changing the JB mechanics actually waters down whatever little strategy exists in alliance warfare
Why?
And it sure makes daily logistics nasty.
It will make logistics more difficult, the larger the territory is that you own. Which again opens up opportunities for smaller entities to make the live of a huge alliance blob harder, in my opinion at least.
It will also have the opposite effect CCP thinks it will, as people will be unwilling to travel for 20 minutes just to address small roaming gangs passing through.
Those who are willing, will prevail over those who are not willing. It¦s that simple, really.
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Infinion
Caldari Awesome Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:30:00 -
[1645]
Edited by: Infinion on 11/05/2011 18:32:26
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Cellistara Because you need 500 subcaps to deal with your 400 man super/titan blobs. Cant really complain when its you guys who are shaping numbers and fleet comp.
Where did those trillions from moon goo go? Why were all the SCs / Titans sold rather than used in house. Where did all that isk go
Because sov costs isk. Building Ihub and upgrading them costs ****tons of isk, managing towers costs isk, jumpbridges cost lots of isk, CSAAs cost more isk, subcap reimbursments cost isk, cap reimbursments cost isk, fun costs isk, and with what little is left over from that goes to maybe helping people get a supercap, or it goes to getting a titan for bridging. Everything costs isk, ya know, unless you live in npc 0.0 and cheaters throw billions of isk and supers at you by the truck load.
so my question is why do isk faucets and isk sinks have to balance out and why is the cost of fun so short lived? Why do we spend so much time grinding for hours earning isk instead of just constantly losing ships? Exactly how important is value to us and is it worth our time? If it's easy to make money, money wont be so important and less time will be spent trying to make it. Why do you think people don't patrol their space like in all the cool expansions? Because it's not worth their time, they would rather be making isk so they can afford to fly capable ships and afford to take part in pvp more often. Who would care if wealth is amassed or not? If you constantly commit yourself to making isk you will inevitably participate less in pvp. Why do we need a real-world economic model?
There's obviously a balance between both making money and pvp but the way i see it right now, it is out of balance and leaning towards the average pilot spending most of their time grinding for isk.
edit: and that's a couple of reasons so many people avoid pvp and use jump bridges because either they feel its not worth their time or they can't afford it
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Mara Tessidar
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:36:00 -
[1646]
My group's response to this has been "Let's go take over the nearby region of NPC nullsec, because now it's better than where we currently live!"
Brilliant thinking, CCP. I love how you anticipated all the consequences of this rapidly-implemented and well thought out "update." Signature locked and removed. Zymurgist |
ShadowFire15
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:40:00 -
[1647]
I'm not saying that we can't adapt to these changes cause I'm sure we will, but the timing and complete urgency of this change just doesn't make sense. I for one never had a problem with using stargates.
Also, I don't know why people are hating on the NC specifically so much. EVE is suppose to be a sandbox, but people seem mad of how the NC decided to play this game. Yeah we have our jb network and it helps to move around large distances, but we also pay billions a month to have them up. Also, if we hold sov, pay for this sov, and provide protection ourselves, shouldn't we be allowed to have the perks of nullsec. People seem upset that some people actually enjoy pve'ing for their isk and that's them. Doesn't mean you have to insult them for it.
CCP was all for boosting living in nullsec with the upgrades to sov and now they seem to be slowly taking it all back. When you get use to having something and someone just up and takes it away of course people are going to rage.
Also, to everyone saying to go back to the way things were, I have nothing to say against that, but why is everyone saying that people managed just fine without all the perks and stuff. In RL, people are constantly trying to find better ways of doing things. A way you can do things faster and are more convient. What you are saying is like saying that sure back in the day we managed to do just fine hunting with bows and arrows or whatever to get our food and relying on a campfire of sorts to stay warm. And now we got heat and air condition inside and a store to get our food and you complain about it and say it was better of how it use to be?
My problem with this is not just because of the JB changes but it seems that CCP is desperate to stop the way some alliances have lived in nullsec for quite a long time. Anom nerf for the average player to support their pvp and other stuff well. Now a nerf to JB's. With this pattern, it seems like it's only going downhill. Anyway, thought I'd go ahead and put my post in. Chuck Norris has the largest fleet of supercaps in the EVE universe. **** him off and he will use them to literally erase you from existence. And people wonder why they can't remember little tommy. |
ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:41:00 -
[1648]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really.
Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.
The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.
Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.
Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.
I'll bet your internet spaceships make you feel important, don't they?
Discoverer of the Original Missile Damage Formula |
Andrea Griffin
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:41:00 -
[1649]
Originally by: Infinion There's obviously a balance between both making money and pvp but the way i see it right now, it is out of balance and leaning towards the average pilot spending most of their time grinding for isk.
I take the opposite approach: The pilot who spends a lot of time grinding isk is flying ships far more expensive than they should be flying.
Don't make much money, don't want to grind isk? Don't complain. Fly frigates and cruisers with T1 gear. You can still be effective in a fight and you don't have to worry about blowing up because it's cheap. There's a ton of frigates that can be bought and fit for under a million isk and still contribute meaningfully to a fight.
That's what I do and I'm quite happy. I still have some shiny expensive ships with nice mods, but they're for special occasions or for solo work where skill and shiny, more than numbers, actually matters.
- "When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed." - CCP Big Dumb Object |
Bloodhands
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:43:00 -
[1650]
Edited by: Bloodhands on 11/05/2011 18:43:53 My original question still stands. If this change is not a politically or monetarily driven change, what would be the harm in pushing back the release date of Phase One until say 14 June, 2011 (34 days) and Phase Two until four weeks after?
A time line change would give the political players who are currently involved in the largest war the Eve Online universe has ever seen a chance to adjust their tactics thus not end up appearing as if CCP is attempting to interfere with the political landscape of negative security space, which is what this looks like to the majority of the readers and posters in this thread.
I am an odd person, speaking as a long time null sec logistics director who has been playing and leading his respective corporations/alliances logistics since before titans, before warp to 0 and before the goons were known as goons. I don't see this change as a bad thing. Will it make logistics more difficult? possibly. Can we adapt? defiantly.
You keep on talking about how PvP in sovereign space is only brought about lately on a sovereignty warfare basis and you think this is bad. Why not boost low security space's rewards for small gang movements. Small gang warfare is what low security space is there for and nation building / conquering is what sovereign space is for.
Should there also be small scale fights in sovereign space? Sure! But not by mandating the game be played your way and no other. Give us the ability to shoot our friends. Give us regional or constellation settings. We all want to be friends to protect our space, but we REALLY hate each other and want to kill each other with out effecting that ability to protect our space.
Take fade and pure blind for example. 12 alliances control small bits of space here so we are all forced to work together in our space. Now, what about when we see each other in Fountain or Venal? There is nothing more we would love then to kill each other, but due to current game mechanics we can not. Give us that ability and i can guarantee you that small scale PvP in sovereign space will increase greatly.
______________________
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Liosa Rearl
Caldari The Lost Legion Bang Bang You're Dead
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:44:00 -
[1651]
...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.
Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.
Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.
Liosa Rearl
P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters. "If you can't accept the fact that you're going to get shafted, quit the bloody game." |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:50:00 -
[1652]
Originally by: Liosa Rearl What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive.
It turns out they were much better at laughing at other people failing to 'adapt or die' than actually doing so themselves, so they died.
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Ami Hantaka
Trans-Solar Works
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:53:00 -
[1653]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really.
Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.
The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.
Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.
Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.
+1. I can confirm from personal experience that mr. Past is a trustworthy and valueable member of the community, and much truth is contained in his words.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:54:00 -
[1654]
Originally by: Infinion
so my question is why do isk faucets and isk sinks have to balance out and why is the cost of fun so short lived? Why do we spend so much time grinding for hours earning isk instead of just constantly losing ships? Exactly how important is value to us and is it worth our time? If it's easy to make money, money wont be so important and less time will be spent trying to make it. Why do you think people don't patrol their space like in all the cool expansions? Because it's not worth their time, they would rather be making isk so they can afford to fly capable ships and afford to take part in pvp more often. Who would care if wealth is amassed or not? If you constantly commit yourself to making isk you will inevitably participate less in pvp. Why do we need a real-world economic model?
There's obviously a balance between both making money and pvp but the way i see it right now, it is out of balance and leaning towards the average pilot spending most of their time grinding for isk.
edit: and that's a couple of reasons so many people avoid pvp and use jump bridges because either they feel its not worth their time or they can't afford it
That was in response to why it's only PL and DRF who can field 500 man fleets of nothing but supers and titans with a few abadons mixed in. Because most other alliances aren't comprised almost entirely of botters, and moon goo goes to pay needed costs rather than throwing supers everywhere.
Originally by: Andrea Griffin I take the opposite approach: The pilot who spends a lot of time grinding isk is flying ships far more expensive than they should be flying.
Don't make much money, don't want to grind isk? Don't complain. Fly frigates and cruisers with T1 gear. You can still be effective in a fight and you don't have to worry about blowing up because it's cheap. There's a ton of frigates that can be bought and fit for under a million isk and still contribute meaningfully to a fight.
That's what I do and I'm quite happy. I still have some shiny expensive ships with nice mods, but they're for special occasions or for solo work where skill and shiny, more than numbers, actually matters.
Not really, when you're limited mostly to subcaps and facing large numbers with superior ships your only chance to win is to throw as many ships at them as you can and to reship quickly. If you put a 500 man BS fleet against a 3-500 man super fleet you will bleed ships, so you have to keep throwing battleships at them. That costs a lot of isk. And you cant exactly say to get into supers themselves if they simply don't have the sp to fly them effectively.
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:58:00 -
[1655]
Originally by: Liosa Rearl ...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive.
We're still here lol. And will be.
But even though we, as individuals, know we could survive any changes, that doesn't mean we have to like them, and it doesn't mean that any change is good just because it's a change.
I'd like to see more people in null sec not less. And they don't all have to be pew-pew pvp'rs, having "non-combat" characters out here is nice as well, not only for more targets, but also for better markets (for example, more explorers potentially means more goodies for people like me who like to collect).
CCP is seeming to go backwards, they don't seem to want to make changes that push hi-sec dwellers outwards (cough lvl 4 missions and npc corps you can stay in forever cough), but are making changes that make null sec more tedious, which doesn't do anything but shift more people back to empire.
Thats bassakwards if you ask me.
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Alayla Nightfall
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:58:00 -
[1656]
Edited by: Alayla Nightfall on 11/05/2011 18:59:09 Some massively long paragraphed posts above, ugh, way too much to read.
These changes will durastically and dramatically slow the movement in 0.0, logistically. Oh well however, I have too many bookmarks anyway.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 18:59:00 -
[1657]
Originally by: Liosa Rearl ...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.
Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.
Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.
Liosa Rearl
P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters.
It's really almost impossible to be self sufficient in null sec, thats why importing is so big, sure mine your megacyte, but trit? Forget it, never going to happen, you could strip a system of all the trit containing rocks and you might get enough for a battleship, though it would take 20 or 30 miners all damn day to do it. I know, I've run the fleets. There just aren't enough of all the resources.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:01:00 -
[1658]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 19:03:46 Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 19:03:17
Originally by: Bagehi Your days in PL have made you soft. Perhaps you forgot what it was like for an alliance to not be comprised of people who all own at least one cap or super.
Nope, I still remember camping NPC stations, collecting hauler spawns for the corp ship replacement program, building my own battlecruisers from reprocessed rat loot, rigging them from salvage, probing wormhole chains to empire, ratting in fleets when cloaky neuts were there and camping any reds that dared to come into our pocket.
But then when I went to null I was told I'd have to earn access to my space and keep earning it day in day out, not promised that I'd be 100% safe ratting my heart out and sucking on the teat of Jita to buy every shiny toy my heart desired.
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Sino Sarn
Sick Tight Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:04:00 -
[1659]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 17:47:40
Originally by: Bagehi Big fleets aren't instant. They take several days notice and several hours to form. They also don't get from point A to B all that fast. If they are going across the map, that is usually a multi-day affair simply because everyone isn't online at the same time, so multiple smaller fleets have to form and move individually. It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies. The "omg, this fleet just showed up out of no where!!!11" crowd will still complain about "instant fleets" without JBs.
Really.
Maybe you should focus on being less awful at the game.
The issue is that NC is terrible, because the alliances in it are terrible, because the corps in them are terrible because they allow an terrible trash members in.
Sadly there is this culture that numbers are everything and everyone of those people is a delicate flower that has to be praised like a spoilt child just for turning up to a CTA.
Why should CCP ruin the game for everyone else just to cater to pacifistic self entitled trash.
You seem mad. Are you mad?
Seriously though, some of us are unable to be 23/7 neckbearded eleet pvpeers. So we, you know, work together and organize to counteract everyone else who is better than us.
I thought this was what CCP wanted? Player interaction. Instead, it seems they are just catering to a specific crowd.
So tell us, how much of 0.0 will RUS have to decimate before a nerf is devised specifically for them?
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:08:00 -
[1660]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Liosa Rearl ...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.
Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.
Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.
Liosa Rearl
P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters.
It's really almost impossible to be self sufficient in null sec, thats why importing is so big, sure mine your megacyte, but trit? Forget it, never going to happen, you could strip a system of all the trit containing rocks and you might get enough for a battleship, though it would take 20 or 30 miners all damn day to do it. I know, I've run the fleets. There just aren't enough of all the resources.
Good to see someone that understands the problem. There is not enough ore in 0.0 to sustain its combat, never has been and from the looks of it never will be. A simple reduction in the requirements to obtain and maintain industry index would help but could not fix the problem. More low end ores need to be seeded (that or recode the asteroids so they never really depelete like ice blocks....that is such massive rocks you could never mine all of them out.).
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:09:00 -
[1661]
I'm noticing a trend here: the people who actually hold sov hate this update, whereas the people who live in NPC space and/or are in a corp that requires every member to own a supercapital like this update.
Hmm. -- Need a break from EVE? |
Liosa Rearl
Caldari The Lost Legion Bang Bang You're Dead
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:10:00 -
[1662]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Liosa Rearl ...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.
Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.
Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.
Liosa Rearl
P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters.
It's really almost impossible to be self sufficient in null sec, thats why importing is so big, sure mine your megacyte, but trit? Forget it, never going to happen, you could strip a system of all the trit containing rocks and you might get enough for a battleship, though it would take 20 or 30 miners all damn day to do it. I know, I've run the fleets. There just aren't enough of all the resources.
Well, i learned a long time ago that for every fighting man that is on the front line there are at least 15 men behind him providing support. Food, fuel, weapons, ammo, shelter.
It is why logistics are a pain and moving resources to and fro is a *****. I understand that with the reduction of jump bridges, logistics itself becomes an issue. All I'm saying is with dedicated individuals it can be done. Just that the ratters will have to pay more and the pvp pilots will have to contribute to the task in some way or the other.
Also, Someone has to mine the trit, or where did it all come from? =) Unless you combine all the reprocessed mins and hauler spawns in 8 years =D
Cheers Liosa "If you can't accept the fact that you're going to get shafted, quit the bloody game." |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:14:00 -
[1663]
Originally by: Dodgy Past
But then when I went to null I was told I'd have to earn access to my space and keep earning it day in day out, not promised that I'd be 100% safe ratting my heart out and sucking on the teat of Jita to buy every shiny toy my heart desired.
I live in a house, if someone shows up with demolition equipment to knock it down I'll defend it. If a bunch of children with sticks start beating on my walls and demanding my house falls over I'm going to ignore them.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:24:00 -
[1664]
Edited by: Vaju Katru on 11/05/2011 19:24:38
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Dodgy Past
But then when I went to null I was told I'd have to earn access to my space and keep earning it day in day out, not promised that I'd be 100% safe ratting my heart out and sucking on the teat of Jita to buy every shiny toy my heart desired.
I live in a house, if someone shows up with demolition equipment to knock it down I'll defend it. If a bunch of children with sticks start beating on my walls and demanding my house falls over I'm going to ignore them.
You would use your real life jumpgate, go inside the toilet and flush it to get out of the house.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:29:00 -
[1665]
Originally by: Ghurthe
Quote:
Exactly its about grief more then pvp for a large part of "pvp'ers" while im not against griefing in eve the patch will not provide anymore actual smallgang-pvp only ganks primarily of newbieships.
Well yes, right now 0.0 alliances can't really be toppled by anything other than about 3 things.
1. Somebody clicking disband
2. Large numbers of super capitals destroying your ability to hold the space, with some sub caps to take out jammers.
3. Small demoralization of the alliance playerbase by hit and run tactics that are denied reprisal against.
Sooo for small gangs there IS no other way to mess with a large alliance other than to stick and move and cloak.
And why should a rag tag group of 20 guys even be relevant to a Super Alliance? Even Afghanistan needed the help of another super power to be relevant to the USSR.
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Tommy Blue
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:29:00 -
[1666]
You said that you are going to get the CSM to look at the changes in the pipeline. Did they get to look at these changes you are already committed to doing? I can't believe that Mittens or the rest of the CSM would agree with this.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:31:00 -
[1667]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 19:32:58
Originally by: Sino Sarn Seriously though, some of us are unable to be 23/7 neckbearded eleet pvpeers. So we, you know, work together and organize to counteract everyone else who is better than us.
Keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better, despite the fact it's completely untrue. I see this every day from the lazy spoilt brats who never do their homework but think they deserve good grades.
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Tel'me Am Peur
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:32:00 -
[1668]
Edited by: Tel''me Am Peur on 11/05/2011 19:32:34 You know CCP is doing it right when the stench of fear and urine pervades NC and Goon posting.
And i'm really amused by the terribad excuses some of you have concocted, for the rest of you who remember nullsec without the training wheels on, good for you. Please take some time to inform other, more cowardly, manbreasts that it is going to be ok.
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qRTA Over
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:45:00 -
[1669]
First good thing ccp done in last few years
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Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:45:00 -
[1670]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
You would use your real life jumpgate, go inside the toilet and flush it to get out of the house.
I guess I might if I knew what you meant.
Originally by: Tel'me Am Peur
And i'm really amused by the terribad excuses some of you have concocted, for the rest of you who remember nullsec without the training wheels on, good for you. Please take some time to inform other, more cowardly, manbreasts that it is going to be ok.
I remember nullsec without supercaps, cloaky interdiction nullified T3s and invincible dramiels too. Can we get rid of those or are you only in favour of a return to the 'good old days' when it doesn't affect you?
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:46:00 -
[1671]
Originally by: Liosa Rearl
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Liosa Rearl ...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.
Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.
Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.
Liosa Rearl
P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters.
It's really almost impossible to be self sufficient in null sec, thats why importing is so big, sure mine your megacyte, but trit? Forget it, never going to happen, you could strip a system of all the trit containing rocks and you might get enough for a battleship, though it would take 20 or 30 miners all damn day to do it. I know, I've run the fleets. There just aren't enough of all the resources.
Well, i learned a long time ago that for every fighting man that is on the front line there are at least 15 men behind him providing support. Food, fuel, weapons, ammo, shelter.
It is why logistics are a pain and moving resources to and fro is a *****. I understand that with the reduction of jump bridges, logistics itself becomes an issue. All I'm saying is with dedicated individuals it can be done. Just that the ratters will have to pay more and the pvp pilots will have to contribute to the task in some way or the other.
Also, Someone has to mine the trit, or where did it all come from? =) Unless you combine all the reprocessed mins and hauler spawns in 8 years =D
Cheers Liosa
The only way to efficiently get trit, mex, and pyer is to import it from high sec. Go to a belt in .5 and its omber and veld, or kern and veld, plus macrominers and botters bring in lots more than a regular human could. We cant go 24/7 on rocks for weeks at a time, would love to be able to, but I think I'd die like that starcraft kid did. we can get decent amounts of mids and highs, but since 90% of miners are new characters (10 mil sp or less at least in my experience) and can't do all that much. For the longest time I dedicated myself to nothing but mining, then I started production, saw it was impossible and just started importing everything. Now I just export megacyte and morphite and rat. Not that I make all that much from any of it.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:49:00 -
[1672]
Originally by: Tommy Blue You said that you are going to get the CSM to look at the changes in the pipeline. Did they get to look at these changes you are already committed to doing? I can't believe that Mittens or the rest of the CSM would agree with this.
From what I gathered from Mittani's post, ccp said it was this or something even worse, they said they hated both but this was the least ****ty option. It was a choice between a little ****, and a lot of ****, they took the lesser evil.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:49:00 -
[1673]
Originally by: IskPlease
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Hide your tengus, hide your LP, coz they'r nerfin' everybody out here!
Negative, they still won't touch Th'uper Carriers. GUYS THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE TH'UPER!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:52:00 -
[1674]
Edited by: Bagehi on 11/05/2011 19:54:58
Originally by: Dodgy Past
Originally by: Sino Sarn Seriously though, some of us are unable to be 23/7 neckbearded eleet pvpeers. So we, you know, work together and organize to counteract everyone else who is better than us.
Keep telling yourself this if it makes you feel better, despite the fact it's completely untrue. I see this every day from the lazy spoilt brats who never do their homework but think they deserve good grades.
I cause lazy people to quit. Works much better that way, because I don't have to deal with them or their parents. Hats off to you for being an educator. However, you have a skewed view of other players in internet spaceships. This isn't supposed to be a job.
Originally by: Yeep I remember nullsec without supercaps, cloaky interdiction nullified T3s and invincible dramiels too. Can we get rid of those or are you only in favour of a return to the 'good old days' when it doesn't affect you?
+1 to this.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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ma perke
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:56:00 -
[1675]
ccp - how do you increase interaction this way?? you are bringing the game in midle ages, when it was not possible to travel since it was too dangerous.
this change is like removing airplanes because they reduce people contact, or remove internet because it reduces people contacts?!?!
preventing people from traveling arround means less contacts i.e. less player interaction, is it that difficult to see this??
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Liosa Rearl
Caldari The Lost Legion Bang Bang You're Dead
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Posted - 2011.05.11 19:57:00 -
[1676]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Liosa Rearl
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Liosa Rearl ...
What happened to the breed of tough players that used to take whatever it was EvE threw at them and survive. It's kind of sad that so many people right now are whining so hard about something that isn't as bad as they project it to be. All the problems they complain about can easily be solved by more manpower in the right places. More industrialists. More miners. With sufficient self production a proper military is always feasible.
Last 3 years seem to seem to have given birth to a whole new breed of whining players. I've done my fair share of fueling poses and bashing them even when we had to fly 20-40 jumps to do it with escorts. It's a damn harsh universe and eve has gotten soft. Freaking unicorns with rainbows.
Welcome to EvE poofies. Go back to Hisec or die fighting for your home.
Liosa Rearl
P.S Use your damn mains instead of hiding behind "corpless" alts. It makes your "grievances" more weighty instead of reminding everyone about the Goon-alt posters.
It's really almost impossible to be self sufficient in null sec, thats why importing is so big, sure mine your megacyte, but trit? Forget it, never going to happen, you could strip a system of all the trit containing rocks and you might get enough for a battleship, though it would take 20 or 30 miners all damn day to do it. I know, I've run the fleets. There just aren't enough of all the resources.
Well, i learned a long time ago that for every fighting man that is on the front line there are at least 15 men behind him providing support. Food, fuel, weapons, ammo, shelter.
It is why logistics are a pain and moving resources to and fro is a *****. I understand that with the reduction of jump bridges, logistics itself becomes an issue. All I'm saying is with dedicated individuals it can be done. Just that the ratters will have to pay more and the pvp pilots will have to contribute to the task in some way or the other.
Also, Someone has to mine the trit, or where did it all come from? =) Unless you combine all the reprocessed mins and hauler spawns in 8 years =D
Cheers Liosa
The only way to efficiently get trit, mex, and pyer is to import it from high sec. Go to a belt in .5 and its omber and veld, or kern and veld, plus macrominers and botters bring in lots more than a regular human could. We cant go 24/7 on rocks for weeks at a time, would love to be able to, but I think I'd die like that starcraft kid did. we can get decent amounts of mids and highs, but since 90% of miners are new characters (10 mil sp or less at least in my experience) and can't do all that much. For the longest time I dedicated myself to nothing but mining, then I started production, saw it was impossible and just started importing everything. Now I just export megacyte and morphite and rat. Not that I make all that much from any of it.
I agree with you, mining for hours can get you killed and i'm a miner. T_T I do the odd ratting now and then but the majority of my income comes from reprocessing materials and random mining of nice sites. I get stuck with kernite and plagio most of the time since i can't get high end ores in the npc space i'm in. The sadder part is there aren't even any lowsec ores where i am. We compensate by importing as well. Or just making our ratters salvage everything in sight =D
Naturally we can't sustain a 1000 man alliance but for now it's enough. And hauler spawns make a big difference on the trit/pye drops. I don't get rich doing it, but someone has to do it. T_T i really do find it funny to be mining veld in 00. "If you can't accept the fact that you're going to get shafted, quit the bloody game." |
Brutious Burlious
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:00:00 -
[1677]
I suppose JB's > RMT'rs
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BIZZAROSTORMY
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:01:00 -
[1678]
Edited by: BIZZAROSTORMY on 11/05/2011 20:02:49
Part one of CCp's plan plan to make people live in Empire was reduce player income, now part 2 has been communicated.
What will part three consist of?
Perhaps: "we feel player built stations are too safe so we are removing them and replacing them with space camels" ?
Or only allowing t1 ships in 0.0?
or limiting system numbers to 2 per system?
who knows what codology they'll come up with. But one thing is certain: if you put the time in to build it - CCP will come...and nerf it.
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W3370Pi4
Lamb Federation Navy
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:08:00 -
[1679]
le lol CSM is a big joke and if 0.0 is not good enough for industry why do you cut the supply routes ?
are you dumb ?
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Elizabeth Cho
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:08:00 -
[1680]
If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
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Jack Abramof
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:11:00 -
[1681]
Edited by: Jack Abramof on 11/05/2011 20:13:24 this is a good start, next should be delayed or no local at all in 0.0
there was a time where you had no freaking jump bridge, you had to move your stuff in 0.0 on your own or build it at your loc with the right infrastucture behind, that how it should be
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:18:00 -
[1682]
Originally by: Jack Abramof this is a good start, next should be delayed or no local at all in 0.0
there was a time where you had no freaking jump bridge, you had to move your stuff in 0.0 on your own or build it at your loc with the right infrastucture behind, that how it should be
And stuff didn't die as much because you would travel 40 jumps without seeing anyone. When a dreadnought died, it made the news feed. That was the Eve of back then. If you want that back, I guess I disagree with your view of the future of Eve.
P.S. Nice name.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Purrp Ledone
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:22:00 -
[1683]
Originally by: Elizabeth Cho If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
This is the best explanation of the changes I've read so far.
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BIZZAROSTORMY
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:22:00 -
[1684]
Originally by: Elizabeth Cho If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
I think you might be on to something. Lets SQUISH all the people!
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:27:00 -
[1685]
So clearly CCP are the biggest greifers.
Why do you pay $14.99 a month to be terrorized?
Devs have stated before that they want you to feel stress an misery when logging into eve. Why pay for something I can get for free everyday in rush hour traffic? Entertainment failure at the highest level.
Battlefield 3 this fall. Epic fights without lag, dev corruption or ham fisted game design. It might not have a pretty barbie creator but it should have balanced game play.
Also, your money won't be going to cosplay vampire ***s. That fact alone is enough to stop feeding C C P.
How many of you are still in null-sec because of the game play?
How many of you are still around because you don't want to abandon you E-buddies to this hopeless creation called Eve?
Get an out of game forum and take you e-buddies to a pasture that doesn't lower your sperm count.
Crowd Control Productions. Don't be their cattle.
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ReddSky
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:30:00 -
[1686]
Great job CCP JB travel in 0.0 is way too safe, and force projection half way across EvE is way too easy with current JB mechanics.
Please ignore the tears in this thread and follow through with this change. This is a positive change that enhances 0.0 game play.
I would also suggest for 0.0 systems a timed delay (session time) before anyone shows up in local.
0.0 should have risks. CCP, stick to your guns, ignore the QQ
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Komen
Gallente The Night Crew
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:31:00 -
[1687]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee So clearly CCP are the biggest greifers.
Why do you pay $14.99 a month to be terrorized?
Devs have stated before that they want you to feel stress an misery when logging into eve. Why pay for something I can get for free everyday in rush hour traffic? Entertainment failure at the highest level.
Battlefield 3 this fall. Epic fights without lag, dev corruption or ham fisted game design. It might not have a pretty barbie creator but it should have balanced game play.
Also, your money won't be going to cosplay vampire ***s. That fact alone is enough to stop feeding C C P.
How many of you are still in null-sec because of the game play?
How many of you are still around because you don't want to abandon you E-buddies to this hopeless creation called Eve?
Get an out of game forum and take you e-buddies to a pasture that doesn't lower your sperm count.
Crowd Control Productions. Don't be their cattle.
You first.
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Iece Quaan
Caldari Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:35:00 -
[1688]
Originally by: ReddSky Great job CCP JB travel in 0.0 is way too safe, and force projection half way across EvE is way too easy with current JB mechanics.
Please ignore the tears in this thread and follow through with this change. This is a positive change that enhances 0.0 game play.
I would also suggest for 0.0 systems a timed delay (session time) before anyone shows up in local.
0.0 should have risks. CCP, stick to your guns, ignore the QQ
Sure, except for the part where it doesn't do anything to force projection issues because no changes are being made to jump drives, jump clones, or pod jumping. Hint: if you have subcaps at your destination, you don't need to move them there.
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Baron Munchousen
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:35:00 -
[1689]
Pure genius, well done, this action looks to penalise existing long term customers.
I believe you could consider an opposite action.
Perhaps players can build and control Jump-Bridges, anchored at planets, as stations are.
A good system may contain many Jumb-Bridges, but no defence POS in range.
This would create many logistical Hot-Spots, and encourage strategic domination of systems in nul-sec.
And the gates would have to be defended by gangs, with no gun support
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Taipion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:41:00 -
[1690]
Building up things that provide convenience IS nice, JBs were that way!
Besides its not realistic... oh wait, in a game were you can go 10.000 times the speed of light, but only slightly faster than a good car when not in warp, and where space is considered a fluid-drag-medium...
Anyway, the glorious end justifies the means, still this "fix" says "we dont care enuff to really do something good, take this instead".
CCP, you are disassembling things that were good, instead of changing/tweaking them, this could, but most importantly should have been done BETTER!
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:46:00 -
[1691]
I already cancelled an alt i was training up for fun =) 1 cancelled alt account = 1 vote.
Its not because of the jumpbridge changes as such, but the 7day(lol) warning of this major 0.0 change, that its in the middle of a large conflict and basically helps one side and screws the other.. thats not sandbox. my problem is ccp now making sudden changes with basically no warning (tho its a safe bet that some ppl know in advance) to "rock the boat" or "keep it fresh" .. no more long term projects in 0.0 anymore.. not worth it.. ccp will just **** it up in a patch if you are too succesfull..
Still havent got any usefull ansfer from Soundwave to most of questions asked here, just bull**** and vague hints of... whatever.
Im not gonna blabber much about ccp being biased coz you destroyed their cheaty pet alliance BoB/IT, taking bribes from rmt's.. I think ppl who have played eve for a bit knows that ccp is not beyond stuff like this.. last time they only really cared about damage control, and hurting the whistleblowers.
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:49:00 -
[1692]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee So clearly CCP are the biggest greifers.
Why do you pay $14.99 a month to be terrorized?
Devs have stated before that they want you to feel stress an misery when logging into eve. Why pay for something I can get for free everyday in rush hour traffic? Entertainment failure at the highest level.
Battlefield 3 this fall. Epic fights without lag, dev corruption or ham fisted game design. It might not have a pretty barbie creator but it should have balanced game play.
Also, your money won't be going to cosplay vampire ***s. That fact alone is enough to stop feeding C C P.
How many of you are still in null-sec because of the game play?
How many of you are still around because you don't want to abandon you E-buddies to this hopeless creation called Eve?
Get an out of game forum and take you e-buddies to a pasture that doesn't lower your sperm count.
Crowd Control Productions. Don't be their cattle.
EvE Online is not the game for you, what you don't enjoy in this game, is what everone else loves.
Go play a solo game, or some *****fied carebear heaven MMO like WoW.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:53:00 -
[1693]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 20:55:44
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee So clearly CCP are the biggest greifers.
Why do you pay $14.99 a month to be terrorized?
Devs have stated before that they want you to feel stress an misery when logging into eve. Why pay for something I can get for free everyday in rush hour traffic? Entertainment failure at the highest level.
Battlefield 3 this fall. Epic fights without lag, dev corruption or ham fisted game design. It might not have a pretty barbie creator but it should have balanced game play.
Also, your money won't be going to cosplay vampire ***s. That fact alone is enough to stop feeding C C P.
How many of you are still in null-sec because of the game play?
How many of you are still around because you don't want to abandon you E-buddies to this hopeless creation called Eve?
Get an out of game forum and take you e-buddies to a pasture that doesn't lower your sperm count.
Crowd Control Productions. Don't be their cattle.
EvE Online is not the game for casual allround players, what you don't enjoy in this game, is what I enjoy, and thats all this is ever about.
fixed? ¿^
we dont really need all these miners and pve players in our deathmatch arena?
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:55:00 -
[1694]
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Miso Hawnee So clearly CCP are the biggest greifers.
Why do you pay $14.99 a month to be terrorized?
Devs have stated before that they want you to feel stress an misery when logging into eve. Why pay for something I can get for free everyday in rush hour traffic? Entertainment failure at the highest level.
Battlefield 3 this fall. Epic fights without lag, dev corruption or ham fisted game design. It might not have a pretty barbie creator but it should have balanced game play.
Also, your money won't be going to cosplay vampire ***s. That fact alone is enough to stop feeding C C P.
How many of you are still in null-sec because of the game play?
How many of you are still around because you don't want to abandon you E-buddies to this hopeless creation called Eve?
Get an out of game forum and take you e-buddies to a pasture that doesn't lower your sperm count.
Crowd Control Productions. Don't be their cattle.
EvE Online is not the game for you, what you don't enjoy in this game, is what everone else loves.
Go play a solo game, or some *****fied carebear heaven MMO like WoW.
I guess I forget that some people enjoy pulling the legs off a spider. and **** WoW. Eve was the first time I tried a subscription based game, at it was because there was no other space game out there. It has only confirmed my previous opinion of the general stock of MMO populations. Misery loves company, no?
Digital Heroism is a pretty lol concept. I'll go play ice hockey with actual people in the flesh. You can have your pussified digital delusions of grandeur and relevance.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:55:00 -
[1695]
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CCP Soundwave The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased.
To clarify, CSM has been presented with some high-level "principles, rules and guidelines" that any nullsec iteration should adhere to, and they seem reasonable -- in fact, I would encourage CCP to publish them in a devblog ASAP for discussion.
However, this presentation does not include any details -- even on the most global level -- on how these guidelines will actually be achieved. We look forward to seeing those, because as we all know, the is in the details.
reposting this for the people who are crying that CCP didnt run this by CSM :D
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 20:59:00 -
[1696]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 20:59:44
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CCP Soundwave The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased.
To clarify, CSM has been presented with some high-level "principles, rules and guidelines" that any nullsec iteration should adhere to, and they seem reasonable -- in fact, I would encourage CCP to publish them in a devblog ASAP for discussion.
However, this presentation does not include any details -- even on the most global level -- on how these guidelines will actually be achieved. We look forward to seeing those, because as we all know, the is in the details.
reposting this for the people who are crying that CCP didnt run this by CSM :D
CSM was a publicity stunt.. always was always will be.. nothing more.
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Lt banaan
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:00:00 -
[1697]
Its funny that in every topic about 0.0 its all NC haters vs DRF mabo jambo.
0.0 sucks and its just getting whorse and whorse with all the ccp tweaking. People posting of the nc and dc hating this might think again when the roles are reversed and when you are under siege and seeing 0.0 get nerfed more and more.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:01:00 -
[1698]
Originally by: Major Stallion
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Originally by: CCP Soundwave The CSM have gotten the first peek at a highlevel direction for 0.0, and they seemed pleased.
To clarify, CSM has been presented with some high-level "principles, rules and guidelines" that any nullsec iteration should adhere to, and they seem reasonable -- in fact, I would encourage CCP to publish them in a devblog ASAP for discussion.
However, this presentation does not include any details -- even on the most global level -- on how these guidelines will actually be achieved. We look forward to seeing those, because as we all know, the is in the details.
reposting this for the people who are crying that CCP didnt run this by CSM :D
1. This was the previous CSM, with only one member of a sov holding alliance. 2. Trebor clearly says that all they saw was goals, not any information about how CCP was planning to achieve those goals.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Justice Starcatcher
Strategic Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:03:00 -
[1699]
Originally by: Baron Munchousen I believe you could consider an opposite action.
Perhaps players can build and control Jump-Bridges, anchored at planets, as stations are.
A good system may contain many Jumb-Bridges, but no defence POS in range.
This would create many logistical Hot-Spots, and encourage strategic domination of systems in nul-sec.
And the gates would have to be defended by gangs, with no gun support
Some infomration in the noise! Call them ôun-authorized gates,ö give them the same restrictions as gates, make them vulnerable to attack or capture-able. I would add that they are not able to link regions. But, it seems like a nice compromise creates interaction and lets us control our environment. What the... |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:06:00 -
[1700]
Originally by: Lt banaan Its funny that in every topic about 0.0 its all NC haters vs DRF mabo jambo.
0.0 sucks and its just getting whorse and whorse with all the ccp tweaking. People posting of the nc and dc hating this might think again when the roles are reversed and when you are under siege and seeing 0.0 get nerfed more and more.
Luckily cluster**** entities dont mind moving to a new place when ccp screws the current place we live over. many of us are doing lvl4 pirate missions again.. until ccp finds out that we do them and nerf that too. Seems we are just to friendly to each other to be allowed in 0.0? after all you cant be friends in eve.. its against the entire idea of eve? you have to atleast **** you friends over for profit if not for lolz sometimes. This being friends just becoz we are friends seem to be destroying ccp's vision for eve?
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Neni
The Wyld Hunt Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:08:00 -
[1701]
*heads back to empire
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Bryan Havoc
The Safe House
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:13:00 -
[1702]
Edited by: Bryan Havoc on 11/05/2011 21:13:04
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:09:46
Luckily cluster**** entities dont mind moving to a new place when ccp screws the current place we live over. many of us are doing lvl4 pirate missions again.. until ccp finds out that we do them and nerf that too. Seems we are just to friendly to each other to be allowed in 0.0? after all you cant be friends in eve.. its against the entire idea of eve? you have to atleast **** you friends over for profit if not for lolz sometimes. This being friends just becoz we are friends seem to be destroying ccp's vision for eve?
I do enjoy all the whine from the crowd with too short attention span's for sov logistics.. and thus dont reap the rewards. =) I feel sad that 0.0 is gonna be as empty as it used to be soon.
Whines like this are why I play eve.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:15:00 -
[1703]
Originally by: Bryan Havoc Edited by: Bryan Havoc on 11/05/2011 21:13:04
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:09:46
Luckily cluster**** entities dont mind moving to a new place when ccp screws the current place we live over. many of us are doing lvl4 pirate missions again.. until ccp finds out that we do them and nerf that too. Seems we are just to friendly to each other to be allowed in 0.0? after all you cant be friends in eve.. its against the entire idea of eve? you have to atleast **** you friends over for profit if not for lolz sometimes. This being friends just becoz we are friends seem to be destroying ccp's vision for eve?
I do enjoy all the whine from the crowd with too short attention span's for sov logistics.. and thus dont reap the rewards. =) I feel sad that 0.0 is gonna be as empty as it used to be soon.
Whines like this are why I play eve.
Is you real life so miserable and desolate that you have to feed on others misfortune to feel complete? You sir are a sad little man.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:19:00 -
[1704]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:20:14
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Bryan Havoc Edited by: Bryan Havoc on 11/05/2011 21:13:04
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:09:46
Luckily cluster**** entities dont mind moving to a new place when ccp screws the current place we live over. many of us are doing lvl4 pirate missions again.. until ccp finds out that we do them and nerf that too. Seems we are just to friendly to each other to be allowed in 0.0? after all you cant be friends in eve.. its against the entire idea of eve? you have to atleast **** you friends over for profit if not for lolz sometimes. This being friends just becoz we are friends seem to be destroying ccp's vision for eve?
I do enjoy all the whine from the crowd with too short attention span's for sov logistics.. and thus dont reap the rewards. =) I feel sad that 0.0 is gonna be as empty as it used to be soon.
Whines like this are why I play eve.
Is you real life so miserable and desolate that you have to feed on others misfortune to feel complete? You sir are a sad little man.
my thoughts exactly, i dont usually bother with "simple" trolls but my thoughts exactly
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cyclone71
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:25:00 -
[1705]
i think the limiting of Jump briges is goin to far. the larger fuel bay is fine but limiting to keeps caps out is no good that is how capatals get in to staion systems. cause staoin systems should be cyno jamed to keep enemy caps out but i would also like ccp to repeel the new way ratting systems are ut to gether the -0.9 systems are uslay in the open and some regions hve none of them at all that is just goin to force more people back to high sec. i want it to go back to the way it was when ur miltary lvlis wat desided wat kind of anoms u got
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lett erika
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:33:00 -
[1706]
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
No most indy guys need at least 15 to 50 PvP guys guarding them at all times.
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
No jita is the olny place with a good market now days.
Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Yeah if you fix the bugs with the lag and the Ihubs not accepting upgrades and that is not to menchon the Ihubs that accept the upgrade then it still dose not work.
Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
When is the last time some one saw SOV as a reason to stay out of that system?
Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
Hellllll no! As there are players that still exzist just to kill others just for an easy kill. and others that take on defencless targets like the frieghters and rorqualls.
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Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:35:00 -
[1707]
Originally by: Bagehi It only looks instant to people who are horrible at Eve and don't have spies.
fleet formation =/= fleet travel time to dest
also spies are a metagame; jumbridges are not
I think your fail logic is what's horrible, here.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:40:00 -
[1708]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:44:49 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:43:36 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:42:34
Originally by: Kalissa All these tears do indeed make my day, all the crying about having to take risks and how smaller alliances will be hit when actually since smaller alliances own less space and have less JB's they will be hit less. Life out in 0.0 is supposed to be risky, for too long people have had it too easy.
Yes there will be gatecamps, so bloody well deal with it thats what PVP is about and in the end PVP is what makes EVE tick without that everything falls apart for everyone.
I personally will be hit by this moving around won't be as convenient or risk free as it is now but as I've said in a previous post this idea is well overdue, good on you CCP!
(And looking back at previous posts it does seem like most of the bleating is coming from the NC doesn't it? That gives me a nice warm feeling inside )
I can understand that you are happy.. with ccp's help you might actually have a slightly better chance in the ungoing conflict =) how many rubles does a dev cost? Sad to see one of my favorite games get perverted like this.. but it is just a game and its summer outside That gives me a warm feeling inside <3
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:47:00 -
[1709]
Originally by: lett erika Hellllll no! As there are players that still exzist just to kill others just for an easy kill. and others that take on defencless targets like the frieghters and rorqualls.
Linkage
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:49:00 -
[1710]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:49:46
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: lett erika Hellllll no! As there are players that still exzist just to kill others just for an easy kill. and others that take on defencless targets like the frieghters and rorqualls.
Linkage
Im all for ganking soft targets.. i might even come to like the jb changes.. I dont like ccp make sudden shuffles to 0.0 landscape just to "shake things up" or whatever. Takes the control of 0.0 out of player hands, thats bad.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:50:00 -
[1711]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 11/05/2011 21:51:16
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:20:14
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Bryan Havoc Edited by: Bryan Havoc on 11/05/2011 21:13:04
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:09:46
Luckily cluster**** entities dont mind moving to a new place when ccp screws the current place we live over. many of us are doing lvl4 pirate missions again.. until ccp finds out that we do them and nerf that too. Seems we are just to friendly to each other to be allowed in 0.0? after all you cant be friends in eve.. its against the entire idea of eve? you have to atleast **** you friends over for profit if not for lolz sometimes. This being friends just becoz we are friends seem to be destroying ccp's vision for eve?
I do enjoy all the whine from the crowd with too short attention span's for sov logistics.. and thus dont reap the rewards. =) I feel sad that 0.0 is gonna be as empty as it used to be soon.
Whines like this are why I play eve.
Is you real life so miserable and desolate that you have to feed on others misfortune to feel complete? You sir are a sad little man.
my thoughts exactly, i dont usually bother with "simple" trolls but my thoughts exactly
Interesting. So by your definition the person that is enjoying the game in a light hearted and jovial manner is "miserable, desolate, and sad".
However the people that are reacting to a minor nerf in the current ease of transportation in null sec with hysteria, exhortations for people to rage quit, and over-the-top condescension towards anyone that suggests you calm down (alternated with the occasional "It won't affect me much anyway" attention diverter) are the mature, well balanced members of our gaming community.
Lets just leave this with the thought that your comments are being received with all the respect they deserve by your fellow gamers. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Barry Niven
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:58:00 -
[1712]
Page 57 seems far too late to come to this and get a response, but I'd be curious some answers from CCP on the following topics:
How do you want the losec experience to differ from the nullsec experience? SOV claiming and holding is a lot of work and a lot of expense, what types of benefits should SOV holders have? Given those goals, what metrics have you put in place to judge whether or not the changes you are making are in line with your goals?
Thanks in advance for any insight here.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 21:58:00 -
[1713]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:03:03 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?.. Unless hes roleplaying his persona on the forum i have no doubt who has the healthier outlook on life.:D
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:02:00 -
[1714]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 11/05/2011 22:04:12
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?..
Just to be perfectly clear, I wasn't simply refering to that last comment, but rather the entire series of rants the two of you have made throughout the course of this thread... regardless of the sincerity or eloquence of the opposing point of view.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:04:00 -
[1715]
Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 11/05/2011 22:05:03 One of the biggest issues I see is that it's very easy for "elite PvP" types to attack sov-holders, but there's no mechanism for sov holders to hit them back in a meaningful way beyond trying to kill their supercaps (which are a major balance issue in and of themselves). If anything, that needs a look and some serious fixing.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:05:00 -
[1716]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:14:59 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:09:06 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:08:40
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?..
Just to be perfectly clear, I wasn't simply refering to that last comment, but rather the entire series of rants the two of you have made throughout the course of this thread.
yep.. you should comment on the rants that conflict with your own view... I dont use too much energy on agreeing with people.. unless I do. and im still waiting for ansfer for the questions asked by all kinds of different ppl in here.. sofar some beating around the bush and then some silence is what we got Most important question is.. why the rush. cant say im against these actual changes.. except for it baing part of a bad trend lately.
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Steel Dragon
Caldari Skyforger Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:07:00 -
[1717]
This just shows how ******ed the team looking into 0.0 space really is. A few questions for the fools that obviously have never truly lived in 0.0: 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb? 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates. 3. WTF are you smoking and can I have some.
Anyway good job at losing yet another subscriber (and my 4 other accounts ) You have (or are) totally destroying the only aspect of this game I truly enjoyed and I have been here from the start. Thanks CCP for being total douche bags.
Was words: If it isn't broken don't fix it Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed resolution of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. -Weatherman
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:09:00 -
[1718]
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 11/05/2011 22:05:03 One of the biggest issues I see is that it's very easy for "elite PvP" types to attack sov-holders, but there's no mechanism for sov holders to hit them back in a meaningful way beyond trying to kill their supercaps (which are a major balance issue in and of themselves). If anything, that needs a look and some serious fixing.
I agree with this. It would add depth to the game if industrial giants that lacked PVP experience (rather than sheer numbers) could flex their economic muscles a bit more directly to bring pressure to bear on PVP centric entities.
Who knows, perhaps this will spark the return of the large Merc outfits that could be hired to do that very thing. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Smurf Dog
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:11:00 -
[1719]
I think CCP should spend less time nerfing stuff, and more time adding useful features or fixing the many remaining bugs.
There it is: STOP NERFING!!! Use a bit of imagination, would it kill you.
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Lofe sXe
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:13:00 -
[1720]
I haven't read the devblog ... but by the amount of carebear tears I must think that finally CCP have a good idea ?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:14:00 -
[1721]
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 11/05/2011 22:15:36
Originally by: Steel Dragon This just shows how ******ed the team looking into 0.0 space really is. A few questions for the fools that obviously have never truly lived in 0.0: 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb? 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates. 3. WTF are you smoking and can I have some.
Anyway good job at losing yet another subscriber (and my 4 other accounts ) You have (or are) totally destroying the only aspect of this game I truly enjoyed and I have been here from the start. Thanks CCP for being total douche bags.
Was words: If it isn't broken don't fix it
1: Cyno jammers can be turned on and off. 2: There is nothing wrong with having a JB highway, they will still be significantly safer than gate to gate travel to your destination. The element of risk has been increased slightly as the whole route can't be JB to JB now. You might have to jump through a single gate somewhere in your trip as opposed to 10 without the JB's. 3: None of your business, and NO!
See you next time around, sorry your primary pleasure in game was traveling by jump bridge.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:17:00 -
[1722]
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?..
You shouldn't post in this forums then. You are the standard carebear troll, always trolling when something changes ingame that messes with "carebearinness". You bring nothing new to the discussion, you are selfish and you don't see the big picture of the EvE Universe.
Basically you are just providing tears and treats of quitting EvE, just quit already or stop posting BS.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:18:00 -
[1723]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 11/05/2011 22:18:26
Originally by: Ranger 1 I agree with this. It would add depth to the game if industrial giants that lacked PVP experience (rather than sheer numbers) could flex their economic muscles a bit more directly to bring pressure to bear on PVP centric entities.
Who knows, perhaps this will spark the return of the large Merc outfits that could be hired to do that very thing.
Contact Shamis Orzoz regarding future contracts, tia
Originally by: Steel Dragon This just shows how ******ed the team looking into 0.0 space really is. A few questions for the fools that obviously have never truly lived in 0.0: 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb? 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates. 3. WTF are you smoking and can I have some.
1. contact your in-alliance comrad and cycle jammer, form convoys to protect against drops, make a team effort and be better for it 2. having a jb highway is awesome, that is why you get to keep it according to the devblog so you can be slightly safer 3. sorry
EDIT: ****, beaten
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:20:00 -
[1724]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:23:14 Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:20:37
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?..
You shouldn't post in this forums then. You are the standard carebear troll, always trolling when something changes ingame that messes with "carebearinness". You bring nothing new to the discussion, you are selfish and you don't see the big picture of the EvE Universe.
Basically you are just providing tears and treats of quitting EvE, just quit already or stop posting BS.
And you are basically a standard anti-"carebear"(whatever) troll.. whats ur point. you do know your game would suck if all the 0.0 "carebears" left right?
Nah not gonna cancel all my eve accounts yet.. im an optimist at heart.
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TradingTooth
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:21:00 -
[1725]
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:20:37
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?..
You shouldn't post in this forums then. You are the standard carebear troll, always trolling when something changes ingame that messes with "carebearinness". You bring nothing new to the discussion, you are selfish and you don't see the big picture of the EvE Universe.
Basically you are just providing tears and treats of quitting EvE, just quit already or stop posting BS.
And you are basically a standard anti-"carebear"(whatever) troll.. whats ur point.
You're both trolls trolling about trolling?
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:24:00 -
[1726]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:25:51
Originally by: TradingTooth
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 22:20:37
Originally by: Vaju Katru
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 11/05/2011 21:59:13 A single line comment like that is fine but not worthy of respect, go enjoy your griefing persona in-game its fun fun. but its basically the standard troll for any such discussion in here atleast come up with something new?..
You shouldn't post in this forums then. You are the standard carebear troll, always trolling when something changes ingame that messes with "carebearinness". You bring nothing new to the discussion, you are selfish and you don't see the big picture of the EvE Universe.
Basically you are just providing tears and treats of quitting EvE, just quit already or stop posting BS.
And you are basically a standard anti-"carebear"(whatever) troll.. whats ur point.
You're both trolls trolling about trolling?
lol maybe its something to do while being blueballed by ruskies+pets
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ChaoticDemon
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:28:00 -
[1727]
So will capital ships be able to use gates in 0.0 since can no longer use jb's to get into jammed systems? Or at least gates where you have sov?
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Nalle Bear
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:32:00 -
[1728]
Nicely done ccp you change the rules for the worse for us who live in not the nice 0.0 space. May consider taking a summer break from eve and hope that more people do it so your money runs dry .. and you hire an employee in the sense ccp
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:34:00 -
[1729]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 11/05/2011 22:05:03 One of the biggest issues I see is that it's very easy for "elite PvP" types to attack sov-holders, but there's no mechanism for sov holders to hit them back in a meaningful way beyond trying to kill their supercaps (which are a major balance issue in and of themselves). If anything, that needs a look and some serious fixing.
I agree with this. It would add depth to the game if industrial giants that lacked PVP experience (rather than sheer numbers) could flex their economic muscles a bit more directly to bring pressure to bear on PVP centric entities.
Who knows, perhaps this will spark the return of the large Merc outfits that could be hired to do that very thing.
PVP entities typically have no persistent infrastructure in game. Pandemic Legion for example has no presence once they log off, yet they have the second largest Capital Fleet in the game. All of which exists with absolutely nothing to defend. How epic is warfare when entire super fleets can disappear in 15 minutes. How are you supposed to combat entities that are 100% offense and by the graces of bad game design are not required to even set up the most basic of forward operating bases.
What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balanced doesn't it?
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Tommy Blue
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:41:00 -
[1730]
Why not just move them to Planets and give them a few gate guns (upgradeable perhaps, based on sov/station in sys/whatever?) and call it a day?
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mindblow
Rionnag Alba
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:41:00 -
[1731]
Edited by: mindblow on 11/05/2011 22:43:04 THIS.. IS.. SPARTA!!!..erm WIN!!
I totally agree of this. This is the 1st time I totally agree with CCP's way of thinking. +1, keep up the awesome work! Sig removed, lacks EVE related content. And it scared the bejesus out of me - Mitnal
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Alaren Planeswalker
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:41:00 -
[1732]
Empire sucked, I moved out to null-sec. Don't make me move back CCP. I thought I loved your game, with its brutal learning curve and huge amount of player influence on the world. You're not keeping up the romance with these changes.
Post anom nerf, DRF now controls all the best tru-sec regions. Wanted your slice of the RMT money pie huh CCP?
It'll be interesting which groups benefit from these new changes.
Stop nerfing null-sec, and add some new features. All you're doing is forcing people back into empire. You're not blizzard. You don't have 10 million player + base where you can afford to **** off a few.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:43:00 -
[1733]
Originally by: Steel Dragon This just shows how ******ed the team looking into 0.0 space really is. A few questions for the fools that obviously have never truly lived in 0.0: 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb? 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates. 3. WTF are you smoking and can I have some.
Anyway good job at losing yet another subscriber (and my 4 other accounts ) You have (or are) totally destroying the only aspect of this game I truly enjoyed and I have been here from the start. Thanks CCP for being total douche bags.
Was words: If it isn't broken don't fix it
1) If you can't defend against what comes through when you offline that cyno jammer to let in your caps i'm afraid that jammer is only delaying the inevitable. 2)The reason you die less on gates and more at JB's is because your JB highway allows you to bypass most of those gates. Now imagine how many times you would have died at gates without them.
Why should you have the advantage of having situational control over any roaming gangs that enter your space without skill or tactical prowess getting you that advantage. You already have the advantage of reshipping, free repair, having intel channels warning of the fleet entering your space, etc etc.
3) I have some pills that give soothing and relaxing effect, I'd be happy to pass you some because boy do you need them.
Good ruidance tbh, when the changes brought to the game were to the detriment of the small roaming gang, the NC and friends said HTFU adapt or GTFO. We adapted now it's your turn, except the changes proposed to your way of playing arent all that severe.
I'll add you to my contact list because I suspect you'll still be here come the day that CCP really does **** this game up beyond repair. |
Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:43:00 -
[1734]
I was slightly worried when i started playing Eve in the late 2007 and checked the forums for the 1st time. People claiming they are quiting Eve with thier 10s of accounts and i was like "WHY THE **** DID I START PLAYING THIS GAME"... but then couple of months passed and Eve was still running, and then couple of years passed and Eve's subscribes tripled.
So my point is:
You are not unsubing fast enough
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Tommy Blue
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:46:00 -
[1735]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balance doesn't it?
Its called a staging pos. Kill all of their staging posses, and they will go away.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:52:00 -
[1736]
Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 22:54:39
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Originally by: Miso Hawnee What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balance doesn't it?
Its called a staging pos. Kill all of their staging posses, and they will go away.
So the Titans and Nyx that did drive bys in P-2 for over a month had a staging pos? No they had a cloaking device and then logged off. Supers don't need a POS to stage in, they simply need their own account and they can use the log on / log off mechanics as a form of invulnerability. There is no counter offensive to this. The aggressor gets to dictate all the terms, and the defensive potentials in this game have become increasingly impotent over the cycles of design.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 22:58:00 -
[1737]
Quote: So the Titans and Nyx that did drive bys in P-2 for over a month had a staging pos? No they had a cloaking device and then logged off. Supers don't need a POS to stage in, they simply need their own account and they can use the log on / log off mechanics as a form of invulnerability. There is no counter offensive to this. The aggressor gets to dictate all the terms, and the defensive potentials in this game have become increasingly impotent over the cycles of design.
Titan drive bys and cloaking device doesn't mix very well mate...
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:04:00 -
[1738]
Originally by: Megy Feel
Quote: So the Titans and Nyx that did drive bys in P-2 for over a month had a staging pos? No they had a cloaking device and then logged off. Supers don't need a POS to stage in, they simply need their own account and they can use the log on / log off mechanics as a form of invulnerability. There is no counter offensive to this. The aggressor gets to dictate all the terms, and the defensive potentials in this game have become increasingly impotent over the cycles of design.
Titan drive bys and cloaking device doesn't mix very well mate...
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7148623
O'rlly
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David Carel
Caldari Random Selection. Tactical Narcotics Team
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:04:00 -
[1739]
Originally by: Steel Dragon This just shows how ******ed the team looking into 0.0 space really is. A few questions for the fools that obviously have never truly lived in 0.0: 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb? 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates. 3. WTF are you smoking and can I have some.
Anyway good job at losing yet another subscriber (and my 4 other accounts ) You have (or are) totally destroying the only aspect of this game I truly enjoyed and I have been here from the start. Thanks CCP for being total douche bags.
Was words: If it isn't broken don't fix it
u mad bro?
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Metlec
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:05:00 -
[1740]
OMG u are making 0.0 harder to live in like the old days. This is an outrage!!!11
Man up.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:08:00 -
[1741]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 22:54:39
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Originally by: Miso Hawnee What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balance doesn't it?
Its called a staging pos. Kill all of their staging posses, and they will go away.
So the Titans and Nyx that did drive bys in P-2 for over a month had a staging pos? No they had a cloaking device and then logged off. Supers don't need a POS to stage in, they simply need their own account and they can use the log on / log off mechanics as a form of invulnerability. There is no counter offensive to this. The aggressor gets to dictate all the terms, and the defensive potentials in this game have become increasingly impotent over the cycles of design.
If your going to start crying about super capitals now then I suggest you give a look at my two proposals here and here.
Simple changes that will put them at greaters risk for the lazy.
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Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:12:00 -
[1742]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 22:54:39
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Originally by: Miso Hawnee What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balance doesn't it?
Its called a staging pos. Kill all of their staging posses, and they will go away.
So the Titans and Nyx that did drive bys in P-2 for over a month had a staging pos? No they had a cloaking device and then logged off. Supers don't need a POS to stage in, they simply need their own account and they can use the log on / log off mechanics as a form of invulnerability. There is no counter offensive to this. The aggressor gets to dictate all the terms, and the defensive potentials in this game have become increasingly impotent over the cycles of design.
If your going to start crying about super capitals now then I suggest you give a look at my two proposals here and here.
Simple changes that will put them at greaters risk for the lazy.
That is a good start, but it doesn't touch the problem of buffer tank loggoffski. There was an aeon with that nyx that lived. Logged off with smart bombs hot for 15 minutes (killing silly frigates lol) before disappearing in half armor.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:13:00 -
[1743]
Originally by: Steel Dragon 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb?
Turn off the cyno jammer.
Originally by: Steel Dragon 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates.
That is because with the current JB network, when do you ever need to use a gate?
Originally by: Steel Dragon If it isn't broken don't fix it
But it is broken.
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:15:00 -
[1744]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: Megy Feel
Quote: So the Titans and Nyx that did drive bys in P-2 for over a month had a staging pos? No they had a cloaking device and then logged off. Supers don't need a POS to stage in, they simply need their own account and they can use the log on / log off mechanics as a form of invulnerability. There is no counter offensive to this. The aggressor gets to dictate all the terms, and the defensive potentials in this game have become increasingly impotent over the cycles of design.
Titan drive bys and cloaking device doesn't mix very well mate...
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=7148623
O'rlly
Nyx isn't titan mate, and yes http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=9175597 Rly
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:17:00 -
[1745]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee That is a good start, but it doesn't touch the problem of buffer tank loggoffski. There was an aeon with that nyx that lived. Logged off with smart bombs hot for 15 minutes (killing silly frigates lol) before disappearing in half armor.
I hate the 15 minute timer too. It is a dumb mechanic. I am of the belief that the timer should start from the last player agression, logged on or not, before it disappear.
On a side note... LOL @ said frigates who continued to Leroy into smartbombs for 15 minutes!!!
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:28:00 -
[1746]
Originally by: Tommy Blue
Originally by: Miso Hawnee What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balance doesn't it?
Its called a staging pos. Kill all of their staging posses, and they will go away.
Kill all the staging POSes and they put down new ones. They're cheap, it's easy to do, and I've seen it happen plenty of times.
What they need to do is make NPC station services disableable, and add a service that allows ships to be fitted/boarded/docked. When disabled, make them unrepairable, just have it so they come online after a few days. If they want to use NPC stations to launch an offensive against player controlled space, they should be subject to the same requirements of defending your staging system as anyone else, otherwise it's just imbalanced.
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Midge Mo'yb
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:32:00 -
[1747]
SOUNDWAVE YOU ARE HAWT
since you stopping ships with jump drives using a jumbbridge, can ships with jump drives be stopped from using titan bridges?
just curious -----------------------------------------------
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Gourdo
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:34:00 -
[1748]
The last alliance I was in it was nothing but constant pvp. So much so I had basically no time to rat/mine to earn income. There is nothing wrong with the JB's as they are. I very very rarely got to use jb's. So removing the JB networks which is what this change actually is, and reducing JB capacity (no jump capable ships can use) Is just what some unnamed major alliances want to give them a edge or nullify their enemies home field advantage. In my opinion this has nothing to with making null more dangerous or making more opportunities for pvp. It is all about favoritism and alliance politics. Look at CSM. Once major sov holding alliances trying to get back sov space. So JB network nerf works in their favor my nullifying their enemies home field advantage; as well as, costing the current sov holders economically.
Just stating how I see it and what I read between the lines.
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:35:00 -
[1749]
Originally by: Sirus Prime
Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?
No, they are. They were just smart enough to send someone who's apathetic to caring to do it. =^D
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Sirus Prime
Caldari Xero Corporation SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:37:00 -
[1750]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Steel Dragon 1. How do capital ships get into friendly station systems that are cyno jammed if we can't use a jb?
Turn off the cyno jammer.
Originally by: Steel Dragon 2. Why do you think having a JB highway is wrong? We took a lot of time and effort to build them so yes they should be slightly safer and tbh I have lost more ships from JB's then stargates.
That is because with the current JB network, when do you ever need to use a gate?
Originally by: Steel Dragon If it isn't broken don't fix it
But it is broken.
U mad bro? It's no question that NC. is for this nerf as it allows them to more easily (so they think) continue their crusade into the North. Same goes for PL, and it's sad that CCP is out to crush the machine that is the Northern Coalition because we broke their pride and joy (aforementioned as BoB/IT). Get over yourselves and leave the sandbox of Eve to the players, the way it was intended and the way it should be.
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zxsteel
Darkness Of Absolution
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:42:00 -
[1751]
Edited by: zxsteel on 11/05/2011 23:42:25 Make things simple! You don't like how 0.0 is going? Give feedback! or go to empire :-))! Things need to me shot at! j.k be nice to miners! I must have been here! |
The Suit Prime
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:44:00 -
[1752]
REALLY?? Ok CCP SOUNDWAVE, DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME?? It is becoming very apparent, you do not know your customers at all. Were you hired just to be a pain in all the players ***es? Look for a new job, because you do not know how to listen to your customers.
BTW have you seen what has happened to Blizzard just recently? They announced a 5% loss in WoW players mostly due to crappy changes to WoW and stale content. I'm pretty sure Fanfest requests to get help from current players to recruit new players is pretty much not on our "to do" list. I'm going to say that your going to need a serious intervention when SWTOR releases. Player issued nerf bat incoming CCP, be prepared for the fallout is all I have to say.
Hilmar, are you reading these player comments? seriously?
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souhyeahright
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:46:00 -
[1753]
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Dodgy Past
But then when I went to null I was told I'd have to earn access to my space and keep earning it day in day out, not promised that I'd be 100% safe ratting my heart out and sucking on the teat of Jita to buy every shiny toy my heart desired.
I live in a house, if someone shows up with demolition equipment to knock it down I'll defend it. If a bunch of children with sticks start beating on my walls and demanding my house falls over I'm going to ignore them.
And what would you do if those children turned up with a bunch of half-bricks and started throwing them at your windows, or brought knives and slashed your car's tires?
As any number of awful human beings will happily demonstrate, you don't have to knock a house down to mess with the people who live in it.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:49:00 -
[1754]
Originally by: "CCP Soundwave"
We're not really looking at that currently. My own personal thoughts about supercaps is that it's a shame there are all these meta-requirements in many alliances. Streamlining the ability to travel, so anyone in a supercap can join a fleet instead of "join fleet if you have a carrier and x number of skills at x level" would probably be a good way to encourage interaction. But yeah, not touching that just now.
You make changes that increase the effectiveness of the super cap blob while also reducing the potency of subcaps in response to said scaps, and you're not even thinking about it? You seem to want more people in scaps with LESS skills, while also increasing the ease of force projection?
The problem is, you are saying "I want to make it more dangerous!" but instead of dangerous, you are just making it 9,001 times more annoying, without adding any real danger. Yes, gates will now be slightly more used, but JB's them self will still be protected by the array of guns that seem to scare you so, making them just as safe as you ever thought they were (you thought incorrectly, just for the record), the net gain remains player annoyance.
Many, many, many, many, many, many, many people have given you examples of better ways to make them massively more dangerous, such as turn them into (effectively) player own gates. Instead, you are giving us nonsensical reasonings, proof that you aren't fully briefed on the impact and a time frame that is at the very least dubious.
On top of all this, with your recent "adjustments", you have further devalued holding sov in general. Part of the reward for holding space was the fact that you could make it marginally safer. You don't give us any other way besides JB's either, I might add. Exactly what, in your opinion, is the reward for holding sov now? S.cap production aside, since we'll all be losing them like drakes if you have your way. (So it seems) Incorrect answers include: "Your name in the top left" and "Sov upgrades" (being uselss in most systems now.)
The cherry on top of all this though, is the fact that you have already said that there are changes coming with a full review of nullsec. You have no immediate need to apply this "adjustment", assuming you are holding an impartial hand in all of this. Nullsec has been fine since you introduced JB's, it's not going to wreck nullsec as a whole while you take your time to think, plan and refine the up coming nullsec changes.
tl;dr?
Well created changes = excellent. Badly created orphan changes = bad. (This is where your change goes)
Quote: CCP's mission is to attract and retain customers by providing top quality online entertainment. CCP does this by establishing and nurturing a trust relationship with customers both in terms of quality of content as well as quality of service.
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/company/about-us.aspx
I'm not feeling very nurtured right now Soundwave. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Sirus Prime
Caldari Xero Corporation SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:53:00 -
[1755]
I, too am feeling this severe lack of "nurturing" even if that meant they gave us nothing and just left things how they are, which imho is PERFECTLY FINE.
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Elder Man
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:59:00 -
[1756]
Bunch of Smerf's in this thread.
I give CCP credit for distracting the players form the real problems of 0.0.
Elder Man |
Miso Hawnee
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Posted - 2011.05.11 23:59:00 -
[1757]
Originally by: souhyeahright
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Dodgy Past
But then when I went to null I was told I'd have to earn access to my space and keep earning it day in day out, not promised that I'd be 100% safe ratting my heart out and sucking on the teat of Jita to buy every shiny toy my heart desired.
I live in a house, if someone shows up with demolition equipment to knock it down I'll defend it. If a bunch of children with sticks start beating on my walls and demanding my house falls over I'm going to ignore them.
And what would you do if those children turned up with a bunch of half-bricks and started throwing them at your windows, or brought knives and slashed your car's tires?
As any number of awful human beings will happily demonstrate, you don't have to knock a house down to mess with the people who live in it.
Remington 870 + Rock salt.
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Minigin
YOU JUST ACTIVATED MY TRAP CARD WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:05:00 -
[1758]
quote this if you think these changes are too moderate.
these changes really dont change as much as needs to be changed. the fact that there are people crying so hard about these changes when really they should be far more severe is making me lol. .
color poastar.
Revisal > Nice job trying to troll me but luckily I'm smarter than you. :D
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:08:00 -
[1759]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 00:09:01
Originally by: Minigin quote this if you think these changes are too moderate.
these changes really dont change as much as needs to be changed. the fact that there are people crying so hard about these changes when really they should be far more severe is making me lol.
Oppinions are like *******s.. everybody has one
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Monakait
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:08:00 -
[1760]
Great start, looking forward to the rest of the changes
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:09:00 -
[1761]
No listening to the NC
No not believing in yourself
CCP, YOU ARE BROS.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:12:00 -
[1762]
Originally by: Ohh Yeah No listening to the NC
No not believing in yourself
CCP, YOU ARE BROS.
Timing is even perfect
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:13:00 -
[1763]
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang What they need to do is make NPC station services disableable, and add a service that allows ships to be fitted/boarded/docked. When disabled, make them unrepairable, just have it so they come online after a few days. If they want to use NPC stations to launch an offensive against player controlled space, they should be subject to the same requirements of defending your staging system as anyone else, otherwise it's just imbalanced.
This keeps coming up and I have no idea why. Do you really think this would help? It's not like people routinely disable station services on conquerable stations as it is. I can see this being disincentive to small pirate corps living in NPC 0.0, but it'd be pretty futile against an organization like PL. You'd either have to form a big ****off fleet to disable services or come with less and fight us (which you can do now just by forming a fleet and coming to FDZ).
I'm not really against the idea (though I would be if I were part of a smaller organization), it just seems like you'd spend two hours sitting at a POS while your fleet forms, all the while listening to DBRB and his dog telling you a 'funny story', fly/bridge to some NPC system where you'll conga around a structure which you can't even AFK shoot (because it shoots back) and then fly home. After which any of the merc/pirate alliances is just going to undock 50-100 triage carriers (which they need to move their **** around) and single cycle the services back up.
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Arthello
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:14:00 -
[1764]
Originally by: The Suit Prime REALLY?? Ok CCP SOUNDWAVE, DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME?? It is becoming very apparent, you do not know your customers at all. Were you hired just to be a pain in all the players ***es? Look for a new job, because you do not know how to listen to your customers.
BTW have you seen what has happened to Blizzard just recently? They announced a 5% loss in WoW players mostly due to crappy changes to WoW and stale content. I'm pretty sure Fanfest requests to get help from current players to recruit new players is pretty much not on our "to do" list. I'm going to say that your going to need a serious intervention when SWTOR releases. Player issued nerf bat incoming CCP, be prepared for the fallout is all I have to say.
Hilmar, are you reading these player comments? seriously?
LOL. They're not being a pain in all the players ***. Quite the contrary. It's CCP listening to their players that gave us this much needed JB nerf. I think Soundwave is doing a totally excellent job. This is exactly CCP's answer to your "stale content" and I'm loving it. Having JB up so carebears can roll around in nullsec without hitting gates is making EVE stale and carefree. EVE is what it is today by being brutal, annoying and hardcore but most of all different. Making EVE into a bad WoW or KOTOR clone would be the doom it. It's the hardcore playerbase that makes this game great. Not you iemoragequit because you nerfed me whiners. Instead of whining and crying NC should start to lay down plans on how to benefit from the new JB mechanics. Or at least lessen it's negative effects.
I find it funny how you NC/Goon people believe you have most of the playerbase on your side. You don't. It's just NC and Goons that are outraged. The rest is loving it so in that perspective it's a great change for the betterment of most. I'm just sad they didn't move the bridges altogether. Baby steps I guess. One step at a time. For the time being I'm happy. Now I'm gonna enjoy some more bitter tears.
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:15:00 -
[1765]
Originally by: The Suit Prime REALLY?? Ok CCP SOUNDWAVE, DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME?? It is becoming very apparent, you do not know your customers at all. Were you hired just to be a pain in all the players ***es? Look for a new job, because you do not know how to listen to your customers.
BTW have you seen what has happened to Blizzard just recently? They announced a 5% loss in WoW players mostly due to crappy changes to WoW and stale content. I'm pretty sure Fanfest requests to get help from current players to recruit new players is pretty much not on our "to do" list. I'm going to say that your going to need a serious intervention when SWTOR releases. Player issued nerf bat incoming CCP, be prepared for the fallout is all I have to say.
Hilmar, are you reading these player comments? seriously?
Go back to WoW
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:19:00 -
[1766]
Originally by: Arthello
Originally by: The Suit Prime REALLY?? Ok CCP SOUNDWAVE, DO YOU EVEN PLAY THIS GAME?? It is becoming very apparent, you do not know your customers at all. Were you hired just to be a pain in all the players ***es? Look for a new job, because you do not know how to listen to your customers.
BTW have you seen what has happened to Blizzard just recently? They announced a 5% loss in WoW players mostly due to crappy changes to WoW and stale content. I'm pretty sure Fanfest requests to get help from current players to recruit new players is pretty much not on our "to do" list. I'm going to say that your going to need a serious intervention when SWTOR releases. Player issued nerf bat incoming CCP, be prepared for the fallout is all I have to say.
Hilmar, are you reading these player comments? seriously?
LOL. They're not being a pain in all the players ***. Quite the contrary. It's CCP listening to their players that gave us this much needed JB nerf. I think Soundwave is doing a totally excellent job. This is exactly CCP's answer to your "stale content" and I'm loving it. Having JB up so carebears can roll around in nullsec without hitting gates is making EVE stale and carefree. EVE is what it is today by being brutal, annoying and hardcore but most of all different. Making EVE into a bad WoW or KOTOR clone would be the doom it. It's the hardcore playerbase that makes this game great. Not you iemoragequit because you nerfed me whiners. Instead of whining and crying NC should start to lay down plans on how to benefit from the new JB mechanics. Or at least lessen it's negative effects.
I find it funny how you NC/Goon people believe you have most of the playerbase on your side. You don't. It's just NC and Goons that are outraged. The rest is loving it so in that perspective it's a great change for the betterment of most. I'm just sad they didn't move the bridges altogether. Baby steps I guess. One step at a time. For the time being I'm happy. Now I'm gonna enjoy some more bitter tears.
Actually i think ur more like a very loud minority :)
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captain foivos
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:19:00 -
[1767]
This entire thread is PL, DRF, and their pets vs. NC and Goons. -- Need a break from EVE? |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:21:00 -
[1768]
Originally by: captain foivos This entire thread is PL, DRF, and their pets vs. NC and Goons.
probably lol
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:23:00 -
[1769]
Originally by: captain foivos This entire thread is PL, DRF, and their pets vs. NC and Goons.
You forgot the Goon pets. Looking at you TEST.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:29:00 -
[1770]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 00:31:25
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: captain foivos This entire thread is PL, DRF, and their pets vs. NC and Goons.
You forgot the Goon pets. Looking at you TEST.
And proud \o/ goons are pretty funny to fly with. Goon friends best friends.. loyal friends = rare commodity.
Id rather be a goon pet then a drf pet. but thats a matter of taste i guess.
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:31:00 -
[1771]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee
Originally by: souhyeahright
Originally by: Yeep
Originally by: Dodgy Past
But then when I went to null I was told I'd have to earn access to my space and keep earning it day in day out, not promised that I'd be 100% safe ratting my heart out and sucking on the teat of Jita to buy every shiny toy my heart desired.
I live in a house, if someone shows up with demolition equipment to knock it down I'll defend it. If a bunch of children with sticks start beating on my walls and demanding my house falls over I'm going to ignore them.
And what would you do if those children turned up with a bunch of half-bricks and started throwing them at your windows, or brought knives and slashed your car's tires?
As any number of awful human beings will happily demonstrate, you don't have to knock a house down to mess with the people who live in it.
Remington 870 + Rock salt.
So you'd come and fight, that's the reaction that was hoped for.
Though it's more situation that you're safe in your home, but you need to pay some security guards to protect you when you want to go to work.
Stretching the analogy further in the real world you pay taxes to have some police, so maybe you need to hire some thugs to protect you. Sadly what's obvious is people are too tight to pay for protection or take the effort to learn to protect themselves, but would rather run to the forums and whine.
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Amber Villaneous
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:41:00 -
[1772]
Another instance of being encouraged to work towards something and then getting fugged in the ass.
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Holywood
Setenta Corp -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:42:00 -
[1773]
Good grief, how stupid!
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:44:00 -
[1774]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:44:32 Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all these ways to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
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Arthello
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:50:00 -
[1775]
Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:46:24
Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all the additions to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
Good post bro!
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:54:00 -
[1776]
Originally by: Sirus Prime SO, let me make sure I have this right. I can't make as much isk as a highsec carebear, and NOW I can't even move around efficiently?? Way to f**k sh*t up CCP, way to f**k sh*t up. Now that it's getting to the same level maybe I'll just go play WoW.
Note: We all realize that CCP isn't going to read this thread don't we?
Did you not see all the posts in this thread by Soundwave?
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 00:55:00 -
[1777]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 12/05/2011 00:56:40
Originally by: Minigin quote this if you think these changes are too moderate.
these changes really dont change as much as needs to be changed. the fact that there are people crying so hard about these changes when really they should be far more severe is making me lol.
Well, of course. These JB changes merely address only one aspect of the greater force projection issue; the next change should be aimed more specifically at capitals (nerf jump ranges please).
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be grateful for what we get.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:01:00 -
[1778]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 01:03:42 nerf supers.. buff dreads..
less bottlenecks.. more npc 0.0
make valuable lowsec.
more wormholes between random systems
less resource sinks where money go to npc's(wtf) so we can use that isk for pvp instead..
buff invention in a big way.. to make t2 ships more affordable.
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:03:00 -
[1779]
Goonswarm forums leak!
Originally by: importantGoonswarm Logistics person
Was thinking about this going home. To drop this one link: One neutral character moved a 400k m3 mod and a 300k m3 mod 12 jumps in empire in a freighter. That was passed off to a different freighter, which was escorted by a roaming gang of about a dozen goons through 2 gates, and 4 jump bridges. It was then transferred to a third character. I then flew a falcon out to scout a system, checking every planet because :ccp: makes it so you can't see ihubs that were transferred from another alliance (TCF). I then lit a cyno, and the first titan shot the waiting charon, which was packed with an ihub that took 2 days to cook, and among other things, capital construction parts (which are a pain to move or make).
The ihub took 1 hour to anchor, and 1 hour to online. By that time, the first Titan had gone to bed, and a second titan fired off another freighter, packed with just two things, which took 800km or so. While this was happening, a rorq cynoed in, dropped a pos, which took 30 minutes to anchor and 30 minutes to online. 2 more trips brought out the guns, ammo, and a cyno gen, with some more fuel. A monkey sat about 4 hours or so and pushed butan, flying from gun to gun to add crystals. The next morning (Anzac are handy) I jumped yet another rorq in with the 100k m3 jump bridge mod. That took 30 minutes to online, after 15 minutes of ****ing with the jump bridge settings which would make babby jesus cry. In two different systems.
And this is just *One* link.
This is a full, unedited post to illustrate a few things to those who think they might have a valid opinion on something they're not experienced with in theory or practice.
We do use freighter convoys, we do use alts, we do escort, we do scout, we do use 0.0 industry infrastructure, we do use titans for logistical support rather than only supercap battles.
Why, after that, after playing by your rules to make the sandbox more playable, do you feel like ****ing in the sandbox? When you p*ss in sandboxes, it gets clumped and disgusting, and kids leave. The kids that stay are the "hardcore" people who are either literally r*****ed and don't mind the smell of p*ss, or the ones that are there to get attention with their antics, but don't have any responsibility to the sandbox. (and occasionally other kids who come over and co-p*ss in your sandbox, then mock you when your sand is all clumped, or even if they just don't have a sandbox of their own, and aren't cool enough for yours.)
The point is, if you actually (hit your head and) think this will make a difference that is positive, why now(NOW now, not even soon now) and not in the winter, when we're supposed to see supposed improvements to counter balance this. If you're going to p*ss in a sandbox that you want people to play in, you need to be more deft about it. Put candy in the sandbox, and suspend yourself far above it, then wave your collective c**ks in a helicopter-d**k-swinging motion so the p*ss is lightly distributed enough that the kids going for the candy don't notice or think it's a mild rain that kinda smells funny and don't scatter to the four winds.
Originally by: Elizabeth Cho If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:14:00 -
[1780]
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Goonswarm forums leak!
Originally by: importantGoonswarm Logistics person
Was thinking about this going home. To drop this one link: One neutral character moved a 400k m3 mod and a 300k m3 mod 12 jumps in empire in a freighter. That was passed off to a different freighter, which was escorted by a roaming gang of about a dozen goons through 2 gates, and 4 jump bridges. It was then transferred to a third character. I then flew a falcon out to scout a system, checking every planet because :ccp: makes it so you can't see ihubs that were transferred from another alliance (TCF). I then lit a cyno, and the first titan shot the waiting charon, which was packed with an ihub that took 2 days to cook, and among other things, capital construction parts (which are a pain to move or make).
The ihub took 1 hour to anchor, and 1 hour to online. By that time, the first Titan had gone to bed, and a second titan fired off another freighter, packed with just two things, which took 800km or so. While this was happening, a rorq cynoed in, dropped a pos, which took 30 minutes to anchor and 30 minutes to online. 2 more trips brought out the guns, ammo, and a cyno gen, with some more fuel. A monkey sat about 4 hours or so and pushed butan, flying from gun to gun to add crystals. The next morning (Anzac are handy) I jumped yet another rorq in with the 100k m3 jump bridge mod. That took 30 minutes to online, after 15 minutes of ****ing with the jump bridge settings which would make babby jesus cry. In two different systems.
And this is just *One* link.
This is a full, unedited post to illustrate a few things to those who think they might have a valid opinion on something they're not experienced with in theory or practice.
We do use freighter convoys, we do use alts, we do escort, we do scout, we do use 0.0 industry infrastructure, we do use titans for logistical support rather than only supercap battles.
Why, after that, after playing by your rules to make the sandbox more playable, do you feel like ****ing in the sandbox? When you p*ss in sandboxes, it gets clumped and disgusting, and kids leave. The kids that stay are the "hardcore" people who are either literally r*****ed and don't mind the smell of p*ss, or the ones that are there to get attention with their antics, but don't have any responsibility to the sandbox. (and occasionally other kids who come over and co-p*ss in your sandbox, then mock you when your sand is all clumped, or even if they just don't have a sandbox of their own, and aren't cool enough for yours.)
The point is, if you actually (hit your head and) think this will make a difference that is positive, why now(NOW now, not even soon now) and not in the winter, when we're supposed to see supposed improvements to counter balance this. If you're going to p*ss in a sandbox that you want people to play in, you need to be more deft about it. Put candy in the sandbox, and suspend yourself far above it, then wave your collective c**ks in a helicopter-d**k-swinging motion so the p*ss is lightly distributed enough that the kids going for the candy don't notice or think it's a mild rain that kinda smells funny and don't scatter to the four winds.
Originally by: Elizabeth Cho If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
Yeah that is the one aspect that I do agree with you on... The timing.
I like this change, but they really should have given a bit more notice on it.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:20:00 -
[1781]
Originally by: Ben Derindar Edited by: Ben Derindar on 12/05/2011 00:56:40
Originally by: Minigin quote this if you think these changes are too moderate.
these changes really dont change as much as needs to be changed. the fact that there are people crying so hard about these changes when really they should be far more severe is making me lol.
Well, of course. These JB changes merely address only one aspect of the greater force projection issue; the next change should be aimed more specifically at capitals (nerf jump ranges please).
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be grateful for what we get.
90% of the argument being put forward is to make them release it all at once. Nerf JB's? ****ed if I care to be totally honest, as long as it's in context of a wider fix.
Of all the many, many issues that exist in Eve, are you honestly happy that CCP Soundwave is wasting his time on half ass fixing something? Answering "Yes" indicates that you clearly don't play Eve. (I actually started to make a list in this post, but I ran out of characters. ) ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Orzgur
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:46:00 -
[1782]
Originally by: Alissa Solette SHOCKER: when I started out in 0.0 there were neither JBs nor JFs nor titan bridges and people had like 1 carrier per corp to move stuff around.
Yes, it was more work (for logistics guys/carebears) Yes, it was riskier (for everyone) but also Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)
Sure, if your only concern is how you can maximize your ratting earnings (or those of your bots) and reduce the risk then I can see how you'd find this bad. If you actually play the fun part of game on the other hand then you should be rejoicing.
How stupid are you? There was less sov blob battles back then because NOBODY HAD BLOBS. You just said each corp had one carrier, how can you blob with one carrier. Most illogical post ever
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Lost'In'Space
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Posted - 2011.05.12 01:49:00 -
[1783]
Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 12/05/2011 01:55:12 lol, all this over having to make a +1 gate jump in the JB network?
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:00:00 -
[1784]
Originally by: WisdomPanda Of all the many, many issues that exist in Eve, are you honestly happy that CCP Soundwave is wasting his time on half ass fixing something? Answering "Yes" indicates that you clearly don't play Eve.
Yes. Because changes like these actually make me *want* to play the game again.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:01:00 -
[1785]
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Goonswarm forums leak!
Originally by: importantGoonswarm Logistics person
Was thinking about this going home. To drop this one link: One neutral character moved a 400k m3 mod and a 300k m3 mod 12 jumps in empire in a freighter. That was passed off to a different freighter, which was escorted by a roaming gang of about a dozen goons through 2 gates, and 4 jump bridges. It was then transferred to a third character. I then flew a falcon out to scout a system, checking every planet because :ccp: makes it so you can't see ihubs that were transferred from another alliance (TCF). I then lit a cyno, and the first titan shot the waiting charon, which was packed with an ihub that took 2 days to cook, and among other things, capital construction parts (which are a pain to move or make).
The ihub took 1 hour to anchor, and 1 hour to online. By that time, the first Titan had gone to bed, and a second titan fired off another freighter, packed with just two things, which took 800km or so. While this was happening, a rorq cynoed in, dropped a pos, which took 30 minutes to anchor and 30 minutes to online. 2 more trips brought out the guns, ammo, and a cyno gen, with some more fuel. A monkey sat about 4 hours or so and pushed butan, flying from gun to gun to add crystals. The next morning (Anzac are handy) I jumped yet another rorq in with the 100k m3 jump bridge mod. That took 30 minutes to online, after 15 minutes of ****ing with the jump bridge settings which would make babby jesus cry. In two different systems.
And this is just *One* link.
This is a full, unedited post to illustrate a few things to those who think they might have a valid opinion on something they're not experienced with in theory or practice.
We do use freighter convoys, we do use alts, we do escort, we do scout, we do use 0.0 industry infrastructure, we do use titans for logistical support rather than only supercap battles.
Why, after that, after playing by your rules to make the sandbox more playable, do you feel like ****ing in the sandbox? When you p*ss in sandboxes, it gets clumped and disgusting, and kids leave. The kids that stay are the "hardcore" people who are either literally r*****ed and don't mind the smell of p*ss, or the ones that are there to get attention with their antics, but don't have any responsibility to the sandbox. (and occasionally other kids who come over and co-p*ss in your sandbox, then mock you when your sand is all clumped, or even if they just don't have a sandbox of their own, and aren't cool enough for yours.)
The point is, if you actually (hit your head and) think this will make a difference that is positive, why now(NOW now, not even soon now) and not in the winter, when we're supposed to see supposed improvements to counter balance this. If you're going to p*ss in a sandbox that you want people to play in, you need to be more deft about it. Put candy in the sandbox, and suspend yourself far above it, then wave your collective c**ks in a helicopter-d**k-swinging motion so the p*ss is lightly distributed enough that the kids going for the candy don't notice or think it's a mild rain that kinda smells funny and don't scatter to the four winds.
Originally by: Elizabeth Cho If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
Quoting this guy for truth and justice. Seriously, this is the amount of effort it takes to build up one "node" on a bridge network. Bridge networks do not spring up by magic nor are they maintained w/o work.
For the nomadic hunter, this matters not (aside from gank opportunities on the POS builder(s)). For the alliance builder, this matters a great deal.
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Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:02:00 -
[1786]
one doesn't even need to read the specifics of the upcoming changes to see that it's a good thing. simply stated, the extreme echoing of NC tears puts my heart at rest in the knowledge that CCP is doing the right thing. may the amarrian gods bless you, CCP.
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durwin
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:03:00 -
[1787]
i think they should go a step further and make jb's alliance only and remove the password. also delayed local would be cool as well make people use there dscan.
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Zendoren
Gallente Aktaeon Industries
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:18:00 -
[1788]
I support this!
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NeoKarn
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:18:00 -
[1789]
I like good fights. Ganking a hauler on a gate is not a "good fight"
I've lived in NPC/sov 0.0 for years now an there is one thing that causes "good fights" and thats self interest.
A roaming gang of 10 ships is easy to ignore. PvP gangs have an attention span of about 15 minutes. U hang around then if nothing happens you move along.
You need to give a reason for a group of players ratting a reason to change ships an undock to fight. Nerfing JB's does not do this. I wait 15 minutes an the JB will be clear to use again.
Now if that same gang could cause the JB or anomolies module on the ihub to go offline for a while then I'm going to undock an fight them. Protecting easy an safe travel or my income stream is important to me. Now if the JB is offline then i need to use MANY gates to travel giving lots of chances for gangs to hit me.
It also makes me go out in small gangs more often cause even if i don't get killmails I can still achieve something by taking away an enemies income stream or mobility.
This JB nerf does not do anything. All it does is annoy logistic guys and after a few weeks people will get used to it an adapt there movement patterns and your back to square one with no real lasting increase in PvP.
Dumb move. Go spend some time thinking about it an come back with an actual reason to make small gang PvP relevant to Sov warfare. Then watch as 0.0 explodes into a 23 1/2 hour zone of ship carnage.
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonWaffe
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:24:00 -
[1790]
Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 12/05/2011 02:25:21
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang What they need to do is make NPC station services disableable, and add a service that allows ships to be fitted/boarded/docked. When disabled, make them unrepairable, just have it so they come online after a few days. If they want to use NPC stations to launch an offensive against player controlled space, they should be subject to the same requirements of defending your staging system as anyone else, otherwise it's just imbalanced.
This keeps coming up and I have no idea why. Do you really think this would help? It's not like people routinely disable station services on conquerable stations as it is. I can see this being disincentive to small pirate corps living in NPC 0.0, but it'd be pretty futile against an organization like PL. You'd either have to form a big ****off fleet to disable services or come with less and fight us (which you can do now just by forming a fleet and coming to FDZ).
I'm not really against the idea (though I would be if I were part of a smaller organization), it just seems like you'd spend two hours sitting at a POS while your fleet forms, all the while listening to DBRB and his dog telling you a 'funny story', fly/bridge to some NPC system where you'll conga around a structure which you can't even AFK shoot (because it shoots back) and then fly home. After which any of the merc/pirate alliances is just going to undock 50-100 triage carriers (which they need to move their **** around) and single cycle the services back up.
That's why I said make it so once station services are brought down, give it a default timer before which it can even be brought back up. Make it a day or two.
Routinely, we end up fighting idiots who go to an NPC station, hit our POSes, stations, and everything else when it's convenient for them, then ***** when we don't fight them on their schedule. And we can't do a damn thing to get back at them except keep fighting until they get bored and go away, and they call this hardcore PvP when in reality they're pretty much playing from an invulnerable position. They have a way to beat us, we need a way to beat them. If stations don't work, give us something else, because boring someone away just doesn't work. They're taking advantage of a badly imbalanced situation and acting like they're undergoing hardships.
And no, coming to your staging system to fight you is not an option because you have the choice of whether to fight us, whereas we don't have the choice of whether to fight you when you come to our space.
You can say we get all these incentives for living in 0.0, but all I know is when I want to make isk I go to highsec. I don't use our jump bridges (though the logistics teams do), and I don't use our upgrades, but I admit I use our tech moons to reimburse ships that I use defending our jump bridges and upgrades that I don't use. Why I don't I use them? Because hisec is more profitable.
If my alliance weren't the only decent thing about this game and participating in it worthwhile, I wouldn't be there at all. Nullsec is less profitable than hisec at this point for the individual player. If nullsec was as profitable as hisec for the individual, there'd be no need for tech moons because we'd be making enough isk to supply ships on our own without a problem. There is no reason for a player to be in nullsec aside from killing players that're in nullsec either because they don't realize highsec is more profitable, or because they're in nullsec because they've been there so long they just don't like being in highsec. Therein lies the problem, the only reason most people are out there is because they've gotten used to living there and are still able to convince people to join them now and then. From a purely objective standpoint, the incentive just isn't there and it's steadily getting worse. So before people call for the removal of jump bridges or local, maybe think of some reasons to get more people out there first?
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:25:00 -
[1791]
Originally by: Panda Name one doesn't even need to read the specifics of the upcoming changes to see that it's a good thing. simply stated, the extreme echoing of NC tears puts my heart at rest in the knowledge that CCP is doing the right thing. may the amarrian gods bless you, CCP.
Be careful what you post, friend. Statements like that, with a character in a corp with an empire's name in it, prove that a notable portion of the people who approve of this don't actually know anything meaningful about the change. You're approving it because of vindictiveness rather than it actually promoting its intended effect. You invalidated your cause by speaking about it.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:29:00 -
[1792]
Originally by: Sirus Prime U mad bro?
No, but you sure as hell are.
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Mortimer Civeri
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:38:00 -
[1793]
Originally by: NeoKarn I like good fights. Ganking a hauler on a gate is not a "good fight"
I've lived in NPC/sov 0.0 for years now an there is one thing that causes "good fights" and thats self interest.
A roaming gang of 10 ships is easy to ignore. PvP gangs have an attention span of about 15 minutes. U hang around then if nothing happens you move along.
You need to give a reason for a group of players ratting a reason to change ships an undock to fight. Nerfing JB's does not do this. I wait 15 minutes an the JB will be clear to use again.
Now if that same gang could cause the JB or anomolies module on the ihub to go offline for a while then I'm going to undock an fight them. Protecting easy an safe travel or my income stream is important to me. Now if the JB is offline then i need to use MANY gates to travel giving lots of chances for gangs to hit me.
It also makes me go out in small gangs more often cause even if i don't get killmails I can still achieve something by taking away an enemies income stream or mobility.
This JB nerf does not do anything. All it does is annoy logistic guys and after a few weeks people will get used to it an adapt there movement patterns and your back to square one with no real lasting increase in PvP.
Dumb move. Go spend some time thinking about it an come back with an actual reason to make small gang PvP relevant to Sov warfare. Then watch as 0.0 explodes into a 23 1/2 hour zone of ship carnage.
Quoting for great truth
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Braondra
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Posted - 2011.05.12 02:53:00 -
[1794]
Guys dont worry. This is only CCP's April Fools joke, the lag is just catching up to it.
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NeoKarn
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:28:00 -
[1795]
Originally by: Mortimer Civeri
Originally by: NeoKarn I like good fights. Ganking a hauler on a gate is not a "good fight"
I've lived in NPC/sov 0.0 for years now an there is one thing that causes "good fights" and thats self interest.
A roaming gang of 10 ships is easy to ignore. PvP gangs have an attention span of about 15 minutes. U hang around then if nothing happens you move along.
You need to give a reason for a group of players ratting a reason to change ships an undock to fight. Nerfing JB's does not do this. I wait 15 minutes an the JB will be clear to use again.
Now if that same gang could cause the JB or anomolies module on the ihub to go offline for a while then I'm going to undock an fight them. Protecting easy an safe travel or my income stream is important to me. Now if the JB is offline then i need to use MANY gates to travel giving lots of chances for gangs to hit me.
It also makes me go out in small gangs more often cause even if i don't get killmails I can still achieve something by taking away an enemies income stream or mobility.
This JB nerf does not do anything. All it does is annoy logistic guys and after a few weeks people will get used to it an adapt there movement patterns and your back to square one with no real lasting increase in PvP.
Dumb move. Go spend some time thinking about it an come back with an actual reason to make small gang PvP relevant to Sov warfare. Then watch as 0.0 explodes into a 23 1/2 hour zone of ship carnage.
Quoting for great truth
I'm sorry I am wrong. There will be a massive increase in kills. Cause thats how I know I'm facing a 1337 PvP'er cause of all the ibis/shuttle kills they got. That will make PvP fun. killing noobship scouts. If you need me in a month I'll be camping gates between JB's in 0.0 honing my skills on ibis's
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Bashiri
No.Mercy Merciless.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 03:56:00 -
[1796]
I see 55 pages of nc crying and nobody else????????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAh
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:06:00 -
[1797]
Whatever will require 0.0 players to take risks, expose themselves to attack, and make it more difficult for mega coalitions to assemble players from half the map into a node-busting blob on a day's notice is just fine by me.
I think there is a place for mega conflict, but for the most part I think 0.0 could use more frequent low-intensity fights with 100 or less on a side. This looks like a step in that direction.
I have to say that I do empathize with those who have made strategic plans and invested a crap-ton of game time relying on the current mechanics. I've done that myself a time or two in the last 8 years, and it sucks out loud. If it's any consolation, I got over it, and you will too.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:18:00 -
[1798]
If CCP said that twenty years from now, this change would happen, you still would ***** that it was too soon.
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Om'en
Minmatar Hyperion LTD.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:22:00 -
[1799]
Originally by: davet517 Whatever will require 0.0 players to take risks, expose themselves to attack, and make it more difficult for mega coalitions to assemble players from half the map into a node-busting blob on a day's notice is just fine by me.
I think there is a place for mega conflict, but for the most part I think 0.0 could use more frequent low-intensity fights with 100 or less on a side. This looks like a step in that direction.
I have to say that I do empathize with those who have made strategic plans and invested a crap-ton of game time relying on the current mechanics. I've done that myself a time or two in the last 8 years, and it sucks out loud. If it's any consolation, I got over it, and you will too.
LOL coming from a dude in an alliance that blobs supers from 3 other regions in a few minutes. No you got over nothing dude.
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King Arillious
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:42:00 -
[1800]
Originally by: Om'en
Originally by: davet517 Whatever will require 0.0 players to take risks, expose themselves to attack, and make it more difficult for mega coalitions to assemble players from half the map into a node-busting blob on a day's notice is just fine by me.
I think there is a place for mega conflict, but for the most part I think 0.0 could use more frequent low-intensity fights with 100 or less on a side. This looks like a step in that direction.
I have to say that I do empathize with those who have made strategic plans and invested a crap-ton of game time relying on the current mechanics. I've done that myself a time or two in the last 8 years, and it sucks out loud. If it's any consolation, I got over it, and you will too.
LOL coming from a dude in an alliance that blobs supers from 3 other regions in a few minutes. No you got over nothing dude.
/me nods
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:44:00 -
[1801]
Originally by: hankey WTF CCP?!
I have been building JB network in drone regions in previous years. It's fully looped and effective! Travel time is about 10 minutes from one Drone Region border to another. And what you are doing? You are gonna limit number of JB from 2 to 1.
You know what will happen? 1. We will have to DOUBLE PAYMENTS TO CONCORD FOR JB UPGRADE (make it half cost if you are still going to implement this ****) 2. EVERY SECOND POS should be reinstalled (totally armed JB POS takes 4 hours to offline and about 8 hours to online all modules) 3. Currently JBs are placed on adjacent moons which makes warp between them less than a minute. With additional jump over gate it'll take up to 6 minutes to simply travel from one bridge to another (on big ship like freighter) 4. Imagine picture, enemy blockade runner runs across our JB network and places LARGE T2 MOBILE WARP DISRUPTOR on every gate. It'll allow one small person to totally RUIN game for the lots of people who travel unarmed/untanked/slow etc... Don't you see dis balance here ???! 5. Logistics people gonna suicide anyways.
You could better implement separate JB password from starbase password and allowed to store it during system changes... instead of improving game you are making stupid nerfs...
hankey The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx
Waaaiiit a second... you're not in the NC - what are you doing complaining about this change?!?
I suppose one thing you have in common with NC is that you (as in your alliance) have taken it upon yourself to take and defend space. There seems to be a lot of support for this from PL, who don't bother defending their space. I wonder if there's a relationship there?
In EVE there needs to be a balance between the builders and the destroyers. This definitely tips the balance in favour of the destroyers. What ever will they do if nobody is building stuff for them to destroy?
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kaltenp
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Posted - 2011.05.12 04:51:00 -
[1802]
well done. you please the "griefers" in eve i.e those that just like to destroy things. really short term thinking because you will cause the "builders" to say st##f you I cant be bothered anymore. This game was meant to appeal to a wide range of people with different interests not just pvp. It has nothing to do with being safe it is just a large time saver and a reward for holding sov. As someone said you are stuffing up 0.0 for most people to please a few.
as a second point whether I agree with this change or not your total disregard for a large group of players is unbelievable, if you thought that this was going to be agreed with why not bring it up before fanfest ah!!!
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Trip Maximus
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Posted - 2011.05.12 05:07:00 -
[1803]
I forsee many deaths in 0.0 after this change.
... all the players self destructing back to empire ...
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UniqueOne
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.05.12 05:20:00 -
[1804]
I could never understand why we ccp chose to add jump bridges and not player stargates in the first place.
I say remove them and let us put up stargates that anyone can use (even hostiles), that take ozone from the user's ship cargo bay. Just let the owning alliance place guns/warp disruptors/etc on them to make it a little harder for hostiles. No more stupid bridge passwords. No more requirement of a pos (it can power its own guns). Just requires a secondary type of fuel to remain online.
My 2c.
How to fix fleet lag in a fair way once and for all.
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Virginia Hymen
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 05:31:00 -
[1805]
Finally CCP is growing some balls and making changes that need to be made, despite the risk averse crying major tears. EVE's niche is a harsh and dark world....never forget that CCP.
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Virginia Hymen
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 05:35:00 -
[1806]
Originally by: Ben Derindar Edited by: Ben Derindar on 12/05/2011 00:56:40
Originally by: Minigin quote this if you think these changes are too moderate.
these changes really dont change as much as needs to be changed. the fact that there are people crying so hard about these changes when really they should be far more severe is making me lol.
Well, of course. These JB changes merely address only one aspect of the greater force projection issue; the next change should be aimed more specifically at capitals (nerf jump ranges please).
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be grateful for what we get.
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Gizan
Hounds Of War Intergalactic Exports Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 05:42:00 -
[1807]
you wanna see a clusterF***, "accidently" disband the large alliances in the game for 1 day and revert it back after the next downtime. talk about mass chaos :)
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WarriorTooth
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 05:46:00 -
[1808]
Originally by: Lost'In'Space Edited by: Lost''In''Space on 12/05/2011 01:55:12 lol, all this over having to make a +1 gate jump in the JB network?
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 05:59:00 -
[1809]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 12/05/2011 06:01:36
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Goonswarm forums leak!
Originally by: importantGoonswarm Logistics person
Was thinking about this going home. To drop this one link: One neutral character moved a 400k m3 mod and a 300k m3 mod 12 jumps in empire in a freighter. That was passed off to a different freighter, which was escorted by a roaming gang of about a dozen goons through 2 gates, and 4 jump bridges. It was then transferred to a third character. I then flew a falcon out to scout a system, checking every planet because :ccp: makes it so you can't see ihubs that were transferred from another alliance (TCF). I then lit a cyno, and the first titan shot the waiting charon, which was packed with an ihub that took 2 days to cook, and among other things, capital construction parts (which are a pain to move or make).
The ihub took 1 hour to anchor, and 1 hour to online. By that time, the first Titan had gone to bed, and a second titan fired off another freighter, packed with just two things, which took 800km or so. While this was happening, a rorq cynoed in, dropped a pos, which took 30 minutes to anchor and 30 minutes to online. 2 more trips brought out the guns, ammo, and a cyno gen, with some more fuel. A monkey sat about 4 hours or so and pushed butan, flying from gun to gun to add crystals. The next morning (Anzac are handy) I jumped yet another rorq in with the 100k m3 jump bridge mod. That took 30 minutes to online, after 15 minutes of ****ing with the jump bridge settings which would make babby jesus cry. In two different systems.
And this is just *One* link.
This is a full, unedited post to illustrate a few things to those who think they might have a valid opinion on something they're not experienced with in theory or practice.
We do use freighter convoys, we do use alts, we do escort, we do scout, we do use 0.0 industry infrastructure, we do use titans for logistical support rather than only supercap battles.
Your freighters still die like idiots on poses, unscouted and unescorted, alt or otherwise and you don't really use your titans for pvp - supercap or otherwise, just sayin'
TCF should have told you where their IHUB is, your falcon scout should have used the scanner instead of warping like an idiot from planet to planet if TCF screwed you up, you should have anchored POS WHILE you were handling the IHUB and you could have brought fuel in a JF you had at your disposal instead of moving it in multiple rorqual trips, the 12-men defense gang wouldn't have helped you at all if you got dropped and any kind of force that would run away from 12 goons could have been easily assembled and bridged at a moments notice if scouts picked up hostiles (talk about wasted effort) and you did all that work only once when you took the region from TCF and you JB spammed systems and routes that most of your members will never need.
Stop being awful at this game and stop dramalaming
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 06:49:00 -
[1810]
People are making way more out of this than there actually is. It's a minor tweak to the way highly developed sov space works.
Seriously, you people bawwing that "logistics will become impossible" and such because you have to make 5 bridges and 5 jumps to cross three regions, are you really, genuinely expecting any sympathy here?
Really?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Jack Abramof
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 06:57:00 -
[1811]
Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:46:24
Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all the additions to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
This is absolutely true . agree 100% with you.
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Morathee
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 06:59:00 -
[1812]
Originally by: Feyleaf I already cancelled an alt i was training up for fun =) 1 cancelled alt account = 1 vote.
Cancel the others too and don't let the door hit your arse on the way out o/
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 07:02:00 -
[1813]
Originally by: Morathee
Originally by: Feyleaf I already cancelled an alt i was training up for fun =) 1 cancelled alt account = 1 vote.
Cancel the others too and don't let the door hit your arse on the way out o/
Yo fayleaf, that's a good way to prepare for the following patch, I hope your entire coalition follows your lead
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 07:43:00 -
[1814]
Originally by: Bashiri I see 55 pages of nc crying and nobody else????????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAh
I guess you'd have to go the the Russian Forum's to see the rest of 0.0s response
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Untelo1
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 07:44:00 -
[1815]
Jump bridges should be removed altogether. Their purpose is to allow making new connections between solar systems for faster travel, not safer. And they do make traveling safer. While jump bridges can be camped, that is much rarer than camping regular gates. Therefor jump bridges should be replaced by player built stargates usable by anyone and either using fuel from the stargate or the ship's cargo bay. The stargates would be limited to one per system of course. This would make traveling just as fast as one jump bridge per system, but more dangerous, as it should be.
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I'm Down
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 07:44:00 -
[1816]
This is a good idea with a horribly deployment method. Very short notice and not being implemented properly with other related fixes that need to be done at the same time.
While I'm extremely happy CCP has finally started doing things aggressively against the consensus of player attitudes, I'm extremely ****ed off that they aren't addressing much larger concerns first such as the overwhelming dominance of Supercapital which anyone with sense predicted long before they were ever changed.
It's also really dumbfounding that they openly say it's going to be at least 7-8 more months before 0.0 gets a real look at patch and no real talk of what else might change after patching Jump Bridges.
IMO, this could be executed much better than a 1 - 3 week notice about the huge change to bridges.
It's almost as stupidly dumbfounding as the change to sanctums and Havens when it should have been a change strictly to the quality of both.
Havens are much lower cash per hour than sanctums, yet unless you're in a -.5 or lower, you cant' even find them anymore. The next lowest teir hubs are so far down on cash per minute that the disparity is down right silly.
Sanctums done with pimp ships = 100 mil an hr or more (300 mil in a Rag/Erebus) Havens done with pimp ships = 70 mil an hr or more hubs done with pimp ships = 25-30 mil an hr
They say this is to create space conflict, yet they have the utter **** imbalance in moon goo and the utter **** imbalance in sov warfare... so why patch one til the other is fixed.
I'm all for patching in small doses to see how one thing affects others. But it doesn't work when you don't set priorities properly and patch the things that might need changing before the thing's you absolutely know have to change.
IMO the priority list should look something more like this:
Supercapitals Technetium Structure HP and the need for Grinding SBU / TCU onlining times Carriers / RR Battleship imbalance Jump Bridges / Cyno Jammers Dictors/hictors 0.0 value Titan Portals / Hotdropping with cyno's Tech 3 imbalance
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Don Kartel
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:01:00 -
[1817]
Fixed
Originally by: I'm Down
IMO the priority list should look something more like this:
Supercapitals Technetium Structure HP and the need for Grinding SBU / TCU onlining times Carriers / RR Battleship imbalance Jump Bridges / Cyno Jammers Dictors/hictors 0.0 value Titan Portals / Hotdropping with cyno's Tech 3 imbalance
Then INCARNA development ( which looks like a complete waste of 2-3 years development time currently )
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Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:09:00 -
[1818]
Lol threadnaught. I'm assuming it's the sovbears whining that they might actually have to use a gate once in a while.
Keep strong CCP, this is definitely the right path to be taking.
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Jelek Coro
Erase Rewind
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:11:00 -
[1819]
Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:46:24
Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all the additions to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
Needs repeating so people crying know what true logistics and planning is...
ASCN had faults, but logistics was not one of them...
|
Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:12:00 -
[1820]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 12/05/2011 08:12:45
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 12/05/2011 02:25:21
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang What they need to do is make NPC station services disableable, and add a service that allows ships to be fitted/boarded/docked. When disabled, make them unrepairable, just have it so they come online after a few days. If they want to use NPC stations to launch an offensive against player controlled space, they should be subject to the same requirements of defending your staging system as anyone else, otherwise it's just imbalanced.
This keeps coming up and I have no idea why. Do you really think this would help? It's not like people routinely disable station services on conquerable stations as it is. I can see this being disincentive to small pirate corps living in NPC 0.0, but it'd be pretty futile against an organization like PL. You'd either have to form a big ****off fleet to disable services or come with less and fight us (which you can do now just by forming a fleet and coming to FDZ).
I'm not really against the idea (though I would be if I were part of a smaller organization), it just seems like you'd spend two hours sitting at a POS while your fleet forms, all the while listening to DBRB and his dog telling you a 'funny story', fly/bridge to some NPC system where you'll conga around a structure which you can't even AFK shoot (because it shoots back) and then fly home. After which any of the merc/pirate alliances is just going to undock 50-100 triage carriers (which they need to move their **** around) and single cycle the services back up.
That's why I said make it so once station services are brought down, give it a default timer before which it can even be brought back up. Make it a day or two.
So you not only want to be able to disable NPC stations for everyone but you also want it to be far more vulnerable than sov station by being able to take it out for days in a single hit while people are asleep with nothing they can do to fix it in their TZ, plus no options for cyno jammers to prevent sov entities bringing in SCs against people that can't build them.
If Mittani thinks he'll ever get any traction with an idea that is so obviously designed to allow sov players to completely ruin the game for the 1000s of players that have no interest in sov just so they don't have to defend their space from a few marauding gangs he's living in an ego fuelled fantasy.
|
|
Resender
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:12:00 -
[1821]
Another point why this idea is bad, it will create more lag. Cause now the fleet action will not be limited to a single system but to dozens, with massive gatecamps.
They can't keep lag down in an un-announced big fleet action, they want us to request node reinforcement, already giving intell away, what now the routes to the fight will have to be reinforced as well.
Unless CCP wants to reinforce 0.0 completely all the time this idea is going to be overused by the pOople who exploit lag already.
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Lost'In'Space
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:16:00 -
[1822]
Originally by: Natalia Kovac I'm assuming it's the sovbears whining that they might actually have to use a gate once in a while.
You assumed correctly, they could just use a scout. But instead they complain their un-scouted haulers will meet some gankers just waiting on the gate IN THEIR OWN SOV SPACE!
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Dodgy Past
Amarr Zor Industries Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:17:00 -
[1823]
Originally by: Resender Another point why this idea is bad, it will create more lag. Cause now the fleet action will not be limited to a single system but to dozens, with massive gatecamps.
They can't keep lag down in an un-announced big fleet action, they want us to request node reinforcement, already giving intell away, what now the routes to the fight will have to be reinforced as well.
Unless CCP wants to reinforce 0.0 completely all the time this idea is going to be overused by the pOople who exploit lag already.
Requesting node reinforcement is giving intel away
Also spreading fights across multiple systems is exactly what people have been suggesting as the necessary counter to lag since it allows CCP to use multiple nodes to manage the fight rather than a single one because it's in a single system.
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Yumis
Amarr Element 115. Raiden.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:20:00 -
[1824]
I love it, 0.0 isn't meant to have no risk.
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Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:52:00 -
[1825]
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Goonswarm forums leak!
Originally by: importantGoonswarm Logistics person
Was thinking about this going home. To drop this one link: One neutral character moved a 400k m3 mod and a 300k m3 mod 12 jumps in empire in a freighter. That was passed off to a different freighter, which was escorted by a roaming gang of about a dozen goons through 2 gates, and 4 jump bridges. It was then transferred to a third character. I then flew a falcon out to scout a system, checking every planet because :ccp: makes it so you can't see ihubs that were transferred from another alliance (TCF). I then lit a cyno, and the first titan shot the waiting charon, which was packed with an ihub that took 2 days to cook, and among other things, capital construction parts (which are a pain to move or make).
The ihub took 1 hour to anchor, and 1 hour to online. By that time, the first Titan had gone to bed, and a second titan fired off another freighter, packed with just two things, which took 800km or so. While this was happening, a rorq cynoed in, dropped a pos, which took 30 minutes to anchor and 30 minutes to online. 2 more trips brought out the guns, ammo, and a cyno gen, with some more fuel. A monkey sat about 4 hours or so and pushed butan, flying from gun to gun to add crystals. The next morning (Anzac are handy) I jumped yet another rorq in with the 100k m3 jump bridge mod. That took 30 minutes to online, after 15 minutes of ****ing with the jump bridge settings which would make babby jesus cry. In two different systems.
And this is just *One* link.
This is a full, unedited post to illustrate a few things to those who think they might have a valid opinion on something they're not experienced with in theory or practice.
We do use freighter convoys, we do use alts, we do escort, we do scout, we do use 0.0 industry infrastructure, we do use titans for logistical support rather than only supercap battles.
Why, after that, after playing by your rules to make the sandbox more playable, do you feel like ****ing in the sandbox? When you p*ss in sandboxes, it gets clumped and disgusting, and kids leave. The kids that stay are the "hardcore" people who are either literally r*****ed and don't mind the smell of p*ss, or the ones that are there to get attention with their antics, but don't have any responsibility to the sandbox. (and occasionally other kids who come over and co-p*ss in your sandbox, then mock you when your sand is all clumped, or even if they just don't have a sandbox of their own, and aren't cool enough for yours.)
The point is, if you actually (hit your head and) think this will make a difference that is positive, why now(NOW now, not even soon now) and not in the winter, when we're supposed to see supposed improvements to counter balance this. If you're going to p*ss in a sandbox that you want people to play in, you need to be more deft about it. Put candy in the sandbox, and suspend yourself far above it, then wave your collective c**ks in a helicopter-d**k-swinging motion so the p*ss is lightly distributed enough that the kids going for the candy don't notice or think it's a mild rain that kinda smells funny and don't scatter to the four winds.
Originally by: Elizabeth Cho If you've ever played Sim City you'll know how you spend all your time building and tweaking things..but eventually it gets too much and you wonder what it would be like to let Godzilla loose on your creation..
I think the devs have got to that position with Eve.
^^ This on so many levels, not to mention all the towers we will now have to spend weeks removing because they are now just a waste of space and fuel.
My idea of fun is definately not logistics or POS building, BUT I have to do them to make sure my corp and alliance keep running.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 08:59:00 -
[1826]
Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
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Mynas Atoch
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:05:00 -
[1827]
This is a conspiracy by CCP to force players into having a second account for a scout alt! I for one will not stand for this shameless rigging of subscriber count. Ban multi boxing!
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Jack Abramof
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:20:00 -
[1828]
Originally by: Trip Maximus I forsee many deaths in 0.0 after this change.
... all the players self destructing back to empire ...
Good then, 0.0 can use less blobs and protected space, there is more than enough already.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:20:00 -
[1829]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 12/05/2011 09:22:43
Originally by: Bobbeh Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
That is untrue and unfair.
PL uses spy alts to make isk in various NC alliances and we'll be affected by this change as everyone else, we get ganked by PL and others, we get camped in when we want to do sanctums, griefed by afk cloakers, many of our alts do logistics for you etc etc, but we'll deal with it, as you will too.
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Andrei Vassaliev
Cursed Inc. Not Found.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:25:00 -
[1830]
I support this change.
@ whinners: welcome in 0.0!
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justin666
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:28:00 -
[1831]
Edited by: justin666 on 12/05/2011 09:28:52 i live in the nc and tbh i support this idea because it was wayyy to safe to move about in 0.0 and this is coming come from a "nc bear" so im glad ccp done this
but i want to point out ccp are still flaming stupid for that anom nerf they done because now new ally's cant fund there young empires
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:29:00 -
[1832]
Originally by: Alissa Solette Either way, asking CCP to nerf stuff because your alliances are to weak, timid, badly organized or too poor (or any combination thereof) is definitely not the way to win any conflicts.
Amusingly enough, this is how everybody seems to feel about the NC. The NC has repelled invasion after invasion over the years (we're yet to see the end of this one...) and people call to nerf drakes and blobs and jump bridges and blue lists and anything that gives sov holders (like the NC) any advantage - "I want my 10 man gang to ge able to bring down a 2k member alliance in one overnight roam, waa".
The list goes on, and so far so has the NC.
and...
Originally by: Alissa Solette I'm not trying to encourage people botting or exploiting the old static plexes (54min Overseer respawn instead of 24h) like the Russians in RA did for literally years but lets be honest: it's a sand box and everyone has the same possibilities. Some people make use of those possibilities and dominate the game... others cry about life being unfair.
Yeah, sure, everybody does have the same opportunity to cheat in the sandbox (botting is cheating). Everybody could play outside the rules, particularly because CCP have up until now been pretty lax in enforcing the rules.
The problem with rules in a game is that if some people play within the boundaries and some people don't and the rules aren't enforced, then you may as well not have them. Imagine a game of soccer where some players play with their hands, or a game of chess where one player keeps putting their pieces back on the board after they've been taken.
Sure, some people might "make use of those possibilities and dominate the game", but when you're not playing within the rules of the game, you're not actually playing the same game (eg soccer using your hands is called rubgy), and therefore aren't really dominating anything in the game.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 09:35:00 -
[1833]
Jumpbridges is not the problem, nerfing them is just the easy solution.
Take for instance the mine, which was removed rather than fixed long ago. Imagine how many folks would be using those jumpbridges if you could mine them.
So rather than nerf the limit of jumpbridges to 1 per system, I provide an alternate solution.
Reimplement Minelaunchers and Mines. Fix them so that if the individual leaves null sec that they deactivate to avoid the old problem of getting concorded. If it is not possible to fix them as they were due to loss of personnel then I would suggest creating mobile minefields similar to our mobile warp disruptors. Instead of stopping you warp they deal damage every cycle to your ship until you leave their area of effect. The mines of course damage anyone in their area of effect friend or foe. (T2 Such mine fields should be Friend or Foe where they will only damage enemies (those with less than 0.0 standing to the corp/player) and not friends).
You could then advance it even further and come up with a couple of new ships probably in the transport category. Deep Space Minelayer (level 3 Transport) has a bubble effect similar to that of the HIC warp bubble, has massive resists to its racial mines damage type. Has the +2 WCS of the Deep Space Transport. Deep Penetration Minelayer (level 3 Transport) uses a covert ops cloak to get into position but fits a similar Minefield bubble with similar resists (for example Amarr DSM would have heavy EM resists and deal EM damage with its bubble, Minmatar DSM would have heavy EX resists and deal EX damage with its bubble, etc)
This would be a strategic/tactical tool that could make jumpbridges a lot less safe then they are today but allow the current system to remain effective. (I'd go ahead and still eliminate jump ships from using the jump bridges, and also increasing the fuel hold of the JBs.)
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I'm Down
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:04:00 -
[1834]
Edited by: I''m Down on 12/05/2011 10:04:01 The proper fix to jump bridges is that they should not be on towers, they should be on planets. They should also not be running at the same time as jammers. And jump drive ships should not use bridges.
Those 3 changes keep the logistics alive, while removing the extremely low risk aspect of the problem.
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Zey Nadar
Gallente Unknown Soldiers Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 10:12:00 -
[1835]
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 12/05/2011 10:14:26
Originally by: Bagehi
The power blocs are not responsible. They are the optimal solution for the current game mechanics. CCP needs to fix the game mechanics, this doesn't do it.
Thats the point, and what CCP and greyscale doesn't understand. The harder they make to defend space, the tighter the coalitions become, because co-operation is the best way to defend space under the changes. CCP seems to have lost touch with reality completely.
And under most of the changes, the individuals and small alliances suffer first. This is true with the anomaly changes.
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Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:13:00 -
[1836]
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Originally by: Panda Name one doesn't even need to read the specifics of the upcoming changes to see that it's a good thing. simply stated, the extreme echoing of NC tears puts my heart at rest in the knowledge that CCP is doing the right thing. may the amarrian gods bless you, CCP.
Be careful what you post, friend. Statements like that, with a character in a corp with an empire's name in it, prove that a notable portion of the people who approve of this don't actually know anything meaningful about the change. You're approving it because of vindictiveness rather than it actually promoting its intended effect. You invalidated your cause by speaking about it.
wrong. god you are bad at this game.
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Solomon XI
Hidden Souls
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:21:00 -
[1837]
Edited by: Solomon XI on 12/05/2011 10:23:01 @ CCP:
Whoever thought of this idea should commit harakiri.
This idea is a ****-poor attempt at fixing a very real problem and will cause more problems in the short term and long term.
CCP - You are doing it wrong.
--- PS: I'm an old null-sec player myself but grew tired of all the crap that went into living in null-security. It just wasn't fun. I'm very happy being an Empire dweller now with an occasional run into low-security for lawls.
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Kingston Black
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:29:00 -
[1838]
everyone who is whinging about this little change needs to harden the **** up or get out. Having to jump one wittle gate for the next jumpbridge? Cry me a river jumpbridges should be removed it'll give a reason for people to make ships and mods in deep 0.0 and sell them there.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:35:00 -
[1839]
Originally by: Kingston Black everyone who is whinging about this little change needs to harden the **** up or get out. Having to jump one wittle gate for the next jumpbridge? Cry me a river jumpbridges should be removed it'll give a reason for people to make ships and mods in deep 0.0 and sell them there.
You can't mine enough low end materials to meet even a moderate sized alliances needs in 0.0, it is why they buy low ends in empire and ship them to 0.0. Most alliances do build ships in 0.0, but the mineral restrictions particularly the amounts are to restrictive to support the population. Future promises of industry index fixes etc are just that future promises that may or may not ever materialize.
If you want more t2 production then you have to redo how the moons are seeded to ensure each region has some availability to each material. The easiest way would be to use a PI like system for Moons with the colonies providing the materials needed.
Its amazing how many folks don't realize those truths.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:41:00 -
[1840]
Originally by: Bobbeh Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
I guess a: U mad ? suites here well. If the NC would now as active in joining defense fleets as they are here whining over a minor change for the better...
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Kingston Black
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:43:00 -
[1841]
tosh, i farm drones and get more than enough minerals to keep me in battlecruisers, depends where you live. If there is a market for the minerals the miners will come, they alays do, the crappy buffer on hulks and their aversion to bombs is another issue
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Miyuki Yotaka
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Posted - 2011.05.12 10:53:00 -
[1842]
Quote: We will then start implementing changes that will hopefully end up making 0.0 a better place to live than it is today.
Then why remove the whole point of a JB network..?? That's one of the main benefits of having space in 0.0. =/
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Insidious
0utbreak
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:06:00 -
[1843]
Edited by: Insidious on 12/05/2011 11:11:50
Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:46:24
Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all the additions to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
+1 I cant say it enough I've resubscribed after over a year watching and waiting for the moment balls are grown.
p.s. oh and too mention the first changes go in 1 day after my birthday im all giddy
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Sirhc1
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:22:00 -
[1844]
Oh Goody! Now all the Devs playing that can't dominate easily in 0.0 will now be able to skate through. You really Suc. This is one more nail getting closer to the final one in the Eve-Online Coffin....you guys much be making too much money per month.... Who's idea was this anyway?
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M1ep1e
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:48:00 -
[1845]
Please forgive me but I haven't read all of the responses yet:
Here are my comments:
1) changes to jump bridges would be completely acceptable provided CCP were able to control macro ratting. This change will simply lead to increased use of titans, so either CCP are going to have to do a lot more to stem macro ratting, especially the rampant abuse among the drone Russians (omg have you ever roamed out there? there's one macro ratter per system....!!!!), so that people who don't cheat can keep up with Titan production, or an alternative means to create a temporary jump bridge should be devised... I'm thinking here about a configurable jump bridge that, like a jump clone, can be modified once a day. This will allow reconfiguration in order to adjust for changes in the tactical situation.
All in all, this change plays into the hand of those who don't really need jump bridges because they can buy Titans like Rifters.... oh wait.. who is on the counsel? LOL Now I get it.
As for the other questions the dev had.
Quote: * Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
I can't see why it isn't or why it needs any adjustment. One thing that may be needed in the future is the ability to produce a supercap in a station factory and/or to produce the components in a station and allow for final production in a 1 week timeframe.
Quote:
* Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
What is empire? Eve online is three games. (1) It's for old WOW players who run missions and want rewards with no risk (2) it's for role players who get their kicks from faction warfare and the idea that they can "win" the game if they try hard enough and (3) there is player controlled content.
If it's necessary for CCP's business model then continue developing high-sec content. For those of us who live in 0.0 few have ever run missions and those who have hated it and/or gave it up when we discovered how the game was intended to be played.
High sec? Meh. for the sake of CCP I understand it but for the sake of the game Concord should become a "faction" (finally a faction with some meaning). This new "Concord faction" should be allowed to anchor as many sentry guns as they want where ever they want. That would make low-sec dynamic because you can't just set up your ship to tank 350 dps and be invulnerable to sentry guns..... It would also allow for Concord to choose to make some areas "ultra safe" while other areas were less safe depending on resources and resistance from hostile outlaws. The divisions between high/low/null sec will become blurred depending on how many concord pilots there are.
Quote:
* Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals?
Grinding sov has become more involved and holding sov has become easier than it used to be. That means making things in 0.0 more static. It also leads to two other effects.
1) The mother ship is the new dreadnaught. Dreadnaughts have lost their traditional role for sov grinding and dreads are more or less useless now. Moms and titans have taken over the sov grinding role
however....
2) Because there is no multiple "smaller ship" solution to mother ships, sov grinding has become a simple calculation of "who ever has the most mother ships will win". Cap warfare is broken.
Two frigates can take down a cruiser Two cruisers can take down a battle cruiser Two Battlecruisers can down a battleship three or four battleships with a couple of logis can take down a carrier if it's tackled but it takes a minimum of 20 carriers/dreads to take down a mother ship
In the old days we used to have the "dooms-day win button"... that was "jump in the titan... DD and win".
... continued
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M1ep1e
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Posted - 2011.05.12 11:50:00 -
[1846]
.. cintinued from previous post..
That button still exists. But now it's just a simple calculation. Whoever has the most moms wins. It's that simple and that's wrong. There needs to be a new role for dreadnaughts so multiple dreads (3-4) with support can take down a mom. That would give a dread a new (and badly needed) role and it would make mom's vulnerable to attack by multiple ships of a smaller class... like all other ships.
Quote:
* Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov?
dunno... and I don't know if it matters. There would appear to be enough eveonline players who play the game for PVP that they managed to make chances happen. The only mechanic, if you ask me, that's broken is that there isn't a multiple smaller ship answer to mother ships.
Quote:
* Are we happy with movement/player interaction?
MORE PVP = a good thing
However, alliances stage attacks from long distances so if you want attack/counter-attack possibilities then you need to allow for that movement. If you nerf jump bridges (especially considering your inability to hem-in macro ratting the the drone regions) then you create an even more static and biased situation than we now have...
To solve that I would suggest the following:
1) re-balance dreads to allow for a jump bridge capability and a "mini" focused-dd that would allow for more movement and the possibility for 3-4 dreads with support to threaten a mother ship (like 3-4 BS with support can threaten a carrier)
2) vastly extend the bridge range of a titan in order to allow insertion of forces well behind enemy lines. That would allow for some surprises (maximum drama) and it would make alliances think beyond the "whoever had more mother ships wins" paradigm we have right now.
M-
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:05:00 -
[1847]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya The NC has repelled invasion after invasion over the years...
Since all that valiant defensive work has been based exclusively on the teleportion system (bridges) and raw numbers, the outpouring of frustration is understandable.
With bridges being reduced to helping hands rather than full-body exoskeletons and dilation removing a big part of 'numbers > all' the weak, timid and badly organized are going down hard.
ASCN had the right idea, in their aimed for self sufficiency which is why the were the first to do most things: built the first outpost, built the first Titan (or was Molle's born a few days prior, I forget), had the first 'standing army', was the first multi-regional entity etc. All that was accomplished with blood, sweat and tears, old fashioned cooperation and competent leadership.
The only bad thing about the bridge change is that it doesn't really help create natural hubs in null, but my guess is that CCPs muse has the year off and the janitor didn't have any better ideas.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:19:00 -
[1848]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Since all that valiant defensive work has been based exclusively on the teleportion system (bridges) and raw numbers, the outpouring of frustration is understandable.
Interesting point - Jump Bridges aren't exclusively used by the NC, they're available to everybody. I even noticed and commented on a DRF guy's post complaining about the nerf... who would have thought!?!
Also, Jump Bridges and numbers aren't the only tools the NC have, so saying that the NC repelled invasions exclusively based on those is a little bit of a stretch methinks.
You seem to be forgetting that we're all carebears - we have a solid industrial backbone.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:31:00 -
[1849]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 12/05/2011 12:34:37
Originally by: Imigo Montoya ..so saying that the NC repelled invasions exclusively based on those is a little bit of a stretch methinks.
Absolute truth just makes for boring reading, a little colouration does wonders
Originally by: Imigo Montoya You seem to be forgetting that we're all carebears - we have a solid industrial backbone.
So did ASCN, their problem was that they didn't have much else so fell apart when the wolves got through the fence.
PS: Get all your carebear friends posting in Mitten's FarmVille thread in AH so the inevitable industry revamp is as good as it can be from the start instead of CCPs usual half-assed solution that take years to mature.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 12:57:00 -
[1850]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida So did ASCN, their problem was that they didn't have much else so fell apart when the wolves got through the fence.
Kind of my point exactly, the wolves have been through the fence plenty if times, and heaps of fun was had all round - by both the wolves and the farmers trying to remove them to protect the sheep.
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida PS: Get all your carebear friends posting in Mitten's FarmVille thread in AH so the inevitable industry revamp is as good as it can be from the start instead of CCPs usual half-assed solution that take years to mature.
It seems that some of those half-assed solutions only take 7 days...
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Om'en
Minmatar Hyperion LTD.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:00:00 -
[1851]
CCP Soundwave and the eve fanbois crack me up!!
CCP you guys are buying your own BS? I understand the players buying into it but you guys?? lol
EVE is the biggest hack job of all time. Its not open world PVP! Its heavily instanced PVP at its very core, every system is an instance with a campable spawn point no less. Things such as cynos and JB's make it more open world but it is still far from open world.
Fleet fights are just pre mades with no limits even Blizzard could do that and get the same results of nobody being able to move or control the avatar. I will give you props for pushing the tech to allow 1000 before its gets real crappy.
Bottom line you guys are still indies that started an amazing game, but here we are 8 years later and now you want to make it more shallow and small by focusing on choke point pvp. you got to be kidding me!!
Tell ya what if you make gates a bridge or launching pad to next system trapping people trying to leave i can go with that, but some how make it like a super warp with a short little load and continue warping and land some random location in target system would do to things. #1 make eve way more immersive. #2 make it so only the FC can warp and land the fleet together would create a more challenge to defend space and allow both sides to actually do more than bubble the **** out of the gates and shoot non loaders.
So before you start swinging nerf bats around aimlessly why don't you rework the systems and add them in together. Fix List #1 all the sov timers suck and need a stream lined. shouldn't have so many shoots on structures. we need more strategic task's to get or loose sov not multi million things with HP's 3 times a week. #2 Sov space must be able to sustain Industry, and then you can cut us off from Jita. #3 Fix Gallente!!! #4 Nerf Moon Goo and remove Concord bills. Don't make it useless just make not so profitable. #5 Travel systems that does both create Good PVP and allow Strategy to prevail not just a bubble on a gate and ganking haulers.
Just my opinion but for me EVE never really ever felt that big its just one instance to the next with spawn points to get zerged on. as for the 1 shard thing SWG could have done with more and bigger planets and larger cities and that was real open world this is not but it could so much more than an illusion of it all it seems to me now is like an a 8 year old Black Prophecy or Vindictus. Sorry never felt lost in space before when its gate to gate, its actually a cheap design imo. worked 8 years ago but don't ya think you can move past it and do something complex.
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Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:19:00 -
[1852]
Posting in a thread full of tears -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately. |
Lady Callia
Caldari The Graduates
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:20:00 -
[1853]
CCP you should do a change like this in a broader release to improve 0.0 space, just removing jumpbridges is a bad idea imho
Some things could 'soften' this change though:
Cyno jammer onlining time Shorten the onlining time of a jammer to 2 minutes, so capitals can be moved more safely while there are still possibilities for hostiles to engage.
Allow multiple outposts per system A major function of jumpbridges is not so much fleet logistics as just industrial logistics, like moving minerals and reactions. Allowing multiple outposts per 0.0 system would remove the need for at least connections between refineries and factories. Never made sense anyway to have the 1 op per system rule only in 0.0
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Sexasaurus Rex
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:37:00 -
[1854]
An elegant and simple solution to the perceived problem of no longer being able to bridge capital ships into cynojammed systems after this change: remove cynojammers from the game. |
ceaon
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:38:00 -
[1855]
just remove JB
JB is stupid game feature
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
If the whole country is corrupted then it's no longer corruption but culture.
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Panem EtCircenses
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Posted - 2011.05.12 13:50:00 -
[1856]
Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:04:00 -
[1857]
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
This.
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Hague Starcatcher
Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjostr
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:25:00 -
[1858]
Jump Bridges are life support for 0.0. You might want to make sure the patient will survive before you turn them off. "Walk a mile in another man's shoes, that way he's a mile away and barefoot..." |
ANGAL 2000
FinFleet Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:25:00 -
[1859]
Originally by: Bobbeh Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
Why are the 30% of the thread about the nc crying no more 0.0 after this patch, It is evident 0.0 will still be their, And we had the same thing just over a month ago with the anom nurf and plex boost.
bobbeh you are an idiot you are part of the main problem in eve and yet you think the nc has full control over the game, over 90% of the player base are ether happy to have this change come in to full effect or have no interest in this subject given low/high sec has no jump bridge.
Like many other's happy to support this long over due change great work ccp.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:49:00 -
[1860]
Originally by: Bobbeh
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
Thank you Sir. Pitchfork wielding farmers cursing me as I ride away from their burning village is what keeps me logging in. I am sure that I will one day meet a righteous and poetically just demise for my crimes against the peace loving peoples of the galaxy.
Your angst aside, though, I have at times been both sov holder and merc in the last 8 years. There is always a balance that has to be struck between being able to farm isk with impunity and stuff getting destroyed. Right now, there is too much isk being made, and not enough stuff blowing up. The balance needs to shift in the stuff blowing up direction.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:56:00 -
[1861]
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 00:39:48 There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses. This is another part of the game and content that other people are creating, so make the most of it and enjoy it.
Says a guys from PL ... dude you guys hide in NPC space and own nothing .... the day you have worthy SOV space you will be flipping your tune cause half of Eve would be dogpiling that ****
Mark my words ... as soon as this war is over CCP will change it back, Ivan can't pay for his fleets of mercs without them.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 14:59:00 -
[1862]
Originally by: Kingston Black everyone who is whinging about this little change needs to harden the **** up or get out. Having to jump one wittle gate for the next jumpbridge? Cry me a river jumpbridges should be removed it'll give a reason for people to make ships and mods in deep 0.0 and sell them there.
Nothing but love but...
OH PLEASE Sarah ... give me a break .... you guys camp lowsec gates in t3s and run into null to shoot at JF for KM whoring.
It funny how everyone that likes this idea doesn't seem to have SOV ... hmmmmmmm
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:06:00 -
[1863]
Originally by: Phigmeta
It funny how everyone that whines over this change doesn't seem to remember that alliances existed before JB were ingame
fixed for you NC alt
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:09:00 -
[1864]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
It funny how everyone that whines over this change doesn't seem to remember that alliances existed before JB were ingame
fixed for you NC alt
Says the no SOV owning ****
thanks for proving my point
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:11:00 -
[1865]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
It funny how everyone that whines over this change doesn't seem to remember that alliances existed before JB were ingame
fixed for you NC alt
Says the no SOV owning ****
thanks for proving my point
U mad ?
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:12:00 -
[1866]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
Uhmm you got paid 600 billion from rat botters STFU
Your leaders RMT`d all your tech ISK otherwise you could have and would have hired PL
Nah we fight our own battles ... but thats maybe because ivan's bots can't fleet
Now get back to your NPC station
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:13:00 -
[1867]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 00:39:48 There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses. This is another part of the game and content that other people are creating, so make the most of it and enjoy it.
Says a guys from PL ... dude you guys hide in NPC space and own nothing .... the day you have worthy SOV space you will be flipping your tune cause half of Eve would be dogpiling that ****
Mark my words ... as soon as this war is over CCP will change it back, Ivan can't pay for his fleets of mercs without them.
how cute, the ncdcpethidingbehindanalt is mad...you forget that there once was a time where there were no jump bridges. police your space or stop crying because you want risk free ratting/too lazy to take a gate to the next bridge.
you are pretty clueless if you think this will change after the north burns to the ground.
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Reaper Chambers
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:15:00 -
[1868]
I would like to put this idea to a vote of the players! Otherwise this may end up not making the most happy, but may make the majority of the players unhappy. CCP can you hear me!?!?!?! Put this JB business to a vote!
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Manfred Sideous
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:16:00 -
[1869]
CCP your on the right track. There are a million games out there people can play if they want it easy. Eve is supposed to be hard for the hardcore gamer. Risk vs Reward needs major addressing in 0.0. I played Everquest from 2000 -2004 the game use to rock. Then they put in easy travel easy access to everything. It slowly killed the game among other things.
0.0 should be cold and brutal but if you work hard it should give benefits that lowsec and empire could only dream of. CCP haters are gonna hate and these whiners are your run of the mill WOW players that want everything handed to them for no effort.
Jumpbridges are nice but they are no good for the game. Eve use to feel big massive in scope. Now with jumpbridges and jumpdrives you can get from anywhere to anywhere with ease. Im glad there are changes being made to improve upon this. ________________________________________________
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:16:00 -
[1870]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
It funny how everyone that whines over this change doesn't seem to remember that alliances existed before JB were ingame
fixed for you NC alt
Says the no SOV owning ****
thanks for proving my point
U mad ?
No .. cause I am sitting in SOV space ... I see you got double tapped out of brick squad ... u mad?
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:20:00 -
[1871]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
Uhmm you got paid 600 billion from rat botters STFU
Your leaders RMT`d all your tech ISK otherwise you could have and would have hired PL
Nah we fight our own battles ... but thats maybe because ivan's bots can't fleet
Now get back to your NPC station
So you are saying the NC never hired PL in the past to bail you out ? loooooooool, get an reality check little alt boy.
See you soon in "my" NPC station NC boy.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:20:00 -
[1872]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous CCP your on the right track. There are a million games out there people can play if they want it easy. Eve is supposed to be hard for the hardcore gamer. Risk vs Reward needs major addressing in 0.0. I played Everquest from 2000 -2004 the game use to rock. Then they put in easy travel easy access to everything. It slowly killed the game among other things.
0.0 should be cold and brutal but if you work hard it should give benefits that lowsec and empire could only dream of. CCP haters are gonna hate and these whiners are your run of the mill WOW players that want everything handed to them for no effort.
Jumpbridges are nice but they are no good for the game. Eve use to feel big massive in scope. Now with jumpbridges and jumpdrives you can get from anywhere to anywhere with ease. Im glad there are changes being made to improve upon this.
When the members of what is a well known as notorious metagaming ***** corp that takes isk from rattbotters is patting you on the back .. you KNOW you've done goofed CCP
thats like a crackhead saying "GREAT JOB DEA... your efforts to slow the drug trade is going great"
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:22:00 -
[1873]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
Uhmm you got paid 600 billion from rat botters STFU
Your leaders RMT`d all your tech ISK otherwise you could have and would have hired PL
Nah we fight our own battles ... but thats maybe because ivan's bots can't fleet
Now get back to your NPC station
So you are saying the NC never hired PL in the past to bail you out ? loooooooool, get an reality check little alt boy.
See you soon in "my" NPC station NC boy.
Soz butsex but this is my main ... i need not hide behind anything .....
and there will never be YOUR npc station... u mad ?
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:24:00 -
[1874]
Originally by: Phigmeta
No .. cause I am sitting in SOV space ... I see you got double tapped out of brick squad ... u mad?
Yeah, it was really a pain to leave them after I petitioned some IEEX guys for botting the **** out of Stain how will I ever recover.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:25:00 -
[1875]
Originally by: Seth Rock
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Dodgy Past Edited by: Dodgy Past on 11/05/2011 00:39:48 There's a very solid vibe that people 'own space' but don't feel safe in it, otherwise they wouldn't be so upset by this change.
Simply put, if you can't police your space why do you think you deserve it?
Maybe you should start actively policing it, and not just putting up random gangs but put these gargantuan brains that dwarf the thuggish PvP'ers who could never design a jump bridge network to other uses. This is another part of the game and content that other people are creating, so make the most of it and enjoy it.
Says a guys from PL ... dude you guys hide in NPC space and own nothing .... the day you have worthy SOV space you will be flipping your tune cause half of Eve would be dogpiling that ****
Mark my words ... as soon as this war is over CCP will change it back, Ivan can't pay for his fleets of mercs without them.
how cute, the ncdcpethidingbehindanalt is mad...you forget that there once was a time where there were no jump bridges. police your space or stop crying because you want risk free ratting/too lazy to take a gate to the next bridge.
you are pretty clueless if you think this will change after the north burns to the ground.
ahh looky the troll is a trolling ... PL does this alot don't they .. when you KNOW you have been called out for isk kissing a rattbotter you jump to the "its and alt" or "your stupid .. u mad?"
your avoidance is proof of your actions
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:27:00 -
[1876]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
No .. cause I am sitting in SOV space ... I see you got double tapped out of brick squad ... u mad?
Yeah, it was really a pain to leave them after I petitioned some IEEX guys for botting the **** out of Stain how will I ever recover.
Oh yeah .. well i petitioned CCP for 30 times for bots in RED space ... ya know what ... their still there.
And im pretty sure you got booted because your a douche
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:29:00 -
[1877]
Maybe Vuk will make SpaceDonkeys full member if you continue to white knight here on the forums, go go go little pet and you will earn Geminate or Vale for your Alliance as gift... ohwai
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M1ep1e
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:32:00 -
[1878]
Originally by: ANGAL 2000
Originally by: Bobbeh Less than 2 days 1800+ posts
Wonder if CCP will realize this isnt a good idea.
And furthermore that the little PL flies whispering in their ear, arent a true 0.0 entity. They are mercs, and dont need sov, or jbs, or sanctums, or any of the stuff they want to get rid of.
They want alliances that actually take sov not to have the ability to defend it effectively cause then they can just rofl stomp them. PL has no bearings on how 0.0 should change cause they dont hold sov, or maintain a group of pilots in a region, or need JB's, or need anything related to 0.0.
So stop posting and cheering and saying it will help 0.0 cause well you dont live here you just show up when someone pays you.
Your time will come and when it does (either theft or flavour of the month dieing out or no contracts or well everyone gets sick of you) we will be here pointing and laughing at the pathetic losers that remain and think they are cool... oh wait you already think your cool don't you...
Why are the 30% of the thread about the nc crying no more 0.0 after this patch, It is evident 0.0 will still be their, And we had the same thing just over a month ago with the anom nurf and plex boost.
bobbeh you are an idiot you are part of the main problem in eve and yet you think the nc has full control over the game, over 90% of the player base are ether happy to have this change come in to full effect or have no interest in this subject given low/high sec has no jump bridge.
Like many other's happy to support this long over due change great work ccp.
The fact is that PL has several seats on the board, either directly or via proxy. CCP does listen to them because they must.
I'm sure PL doesn't want jump bridges and they dont need them. PL's business model would be more adequately fulfilled by limiting the ability of their "enemeies" to move their forces around so naturally they want JB's nerfed.... Duh! That's a win for PL and the reason why the council thinks it's a good idea. CCP lets themselves be hooked through the nose with this but oh well.... that's the way life goes. You can't acutally expect people to THINK about the decisions they make..... The fact that you, as one of the noobs who hired PL to do your dirty work for you, because you can't do it yourself, thinks that jump bridges are bad is more a symptom of your own inability to wage war than anything else.
Nevertheless, I (yes as an NC member) believe that the changes are good. It will increase drama and create complications, which I think is all good and in holding with the tradition of eve-online as being the most complex mmo on the planet.
The one thing I would ask, however, is that ccp does something to compensate for the reduced ability for fleets to move long distances, as per my previous post.
M-
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:33:00 -
[1879]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Phigmeta
No .. cause I am sitting in SOV space ... I see you got double tapped out of brick squad ... u mad?
Yeah, it was really a pain to leave them after I petitioned some IEEX guys for botting the **** out of Stain how will I ever recover.
Oh yeah .. well i petitioned CCP for 30 times for bots in RED space ... ya know what ... their still there.
And im pretty sure you got booted because your a douche
You should petition your NC bot buddies who steal your rats, much more fun and you don`t have to travel so far to reach red space, it`s really a pain when you now have to use gates
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:33:00 -
[1880]
Originally by: Myz Toyou Maybe Vuk will make SpaceDonkeys full member if you continue to white knight here on the forums, go go go little pet and you will earn Geminate or Vale for your Alliance as gift... ohwai
And you will still be station spinning in NPC space
you sound mad
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.12 15:35:00 -
[1881]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Myz Toyou Maybe Vuk will make SpaceDonkeys full member if you continue to white knight here on the forums, go go go little pet and you will earn Geminate or Vale for your Alliance as gift... ohwai
And you will still be station spinning in NPC space
you sound mad
NO U
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Seth Rock
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:03:00 -
[1882]
Originally by: Phigmeta stuff
thanks for confirming that you are infact clueless if you really think NC does not RMT/bot. How do you think your fc's pay their RL bills?
If this "DRF RMT'S!!!!!" gimmick is all you have to hold on to, then you should go ahead and uninstall eve as you've already lost. You're "coalition" is getting a******d everyday and you're too p***y to do anything about it but whine on the forums.
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Tze Len
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:20:00 -
[1883]
As a nullsec logistics player may I just say:
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU *Nomad self destruct*
Im sorry but seriously? CCP where the **** are you getting your information from "how things should work" from? Instead of fixxing issues that have been complained about for years you are constantly either developing something irrelevant (Incarna) or breaking something else (this). Seriously do you ever even look at the features and suggestions forums? Or listen to the playerbase who try to contact you, the only players who you seem to listen too are your CSM and even them you tend to just ignore at times (which isnt always a bad thing).
But hey its all already been said so im gonna stop this rant now as it appears there is a JB network that has to be rebuilt.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:23:00 -
[1884]
Originally by: Seth Rock
Originally by: Phigmeta stuff
thanks for confirming that you are infact clueless if you really think NC does not RMT/bot. How do you think your fc's pay their RL bills?
If this "DRF RMT'S!!!!!" gimmick is all you have to hold on to, then you should go ahead and uninstall eve as you've already lost. You're "coalition" is getting a******d everyday and you're too p***y to do anything about it but whine on the forums.
u mad ?
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:26:00 -
[1885]
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
AMEN!
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Gian Bal
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:39:00 -
[1886]
Originally by: Manfred Sideous CCP your on the right track. There are a million games out there people can play if they want it easy. Eve is supposed to be hard for the hardcore gamer. Risk vs Reward needs major addressing in 0.0. I played Everquest from 2000 -2004 the game use to rock. Then they put in easy travel easy access to everything. It slowly killed the game among other things.
0.0 should be cold and brutal but if you work hard it should give benefits that lowsec and empire could only dream of. CCP haters are gonna hate and these whiners are your run of the mill WOW players that want everything handed to them for no effort.
Jumpbridges are nice but they are no good for the game. Eve use to feel big massive in scope. Now with jumpbridges and jumpdrives you can get from anywhere to anywhere with ease. Im glad there are changes being made to improve upon this.
This +100000000 - finally someone at CCP woke up and realized this game has gone too far towards hellokitty and needs a big nudge back to the old days.
Can't wait
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fattrader II
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:42:00 -
[1887]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Seth Rock
Originally by: Phigmeta stuff
thanks for confirming that you are infact clueless if you really think NC does not RMT/bot. How do you think your fc's pay their RL bills?
If this "DRF RMT'S!!!!!" gimmick is all you have to hold on to, then you should go ahead and uninstall eve as you've already lost. You're "coalition" is getting a******d everyday and you're too p***y to do anything about it but whine on the forums.
u mad ?
look at your own posts and try to say this with a straight face _______________________________
Garmon aka Garrmonia aka the PoWnEr
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Hawkcrest
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:46:00 -
[1888]
If your seeking to improve interaction in 0,0 I propose eliminating JB's alltogether and implementing Alliance created STARGATES to allow 0,0 alliances to create thier own 0,0 highway to establish thier own network in the territories they posses, like jump bridges must be fueled by the host alliance to allow travel but have the potential of being camped by hostiles withot the protection of POS guns, that can only be anchored in open space, and would have build times similar to POS's, and have these stargates upragdable to include gate guns for the protection of the logistics ships needed to refuel these stargates.
As for game balance issues, the technitum imbalance in the game seems to be the largest imbalance at this time, Given that these moons are limited to 1 region of space. I would propose re-randomizing all moon placement throught all of 0,0 space, and not limiting specific moon based metals to any single region, this would force all alliances equal oportunity and reduce a monopoly by any single large alliance, this would also result in the value of some of the newer alliances in 0,0 to have a competitive edge resulting in the 0,0 wars that CCP is seeking.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:47:00 -
[1889]
Originally by: Phigmeta
When the members of what is a well known as notorious metagaming ***** corp that takes isk from rattbotters is patting you on the back .. you KNOW you've done goofed CCP
thats like a crackhead saying "GREAT JOB DEA... your efforts to slow the drug trade is going great"
You have failed to grasp our diabolical plan. We are morally outraged by botting and RMT, so, we intend to take trillions of ill-gotten isk from every RMT interest in the game while helping them to take over 0.0 in its entirety. Only when 0.0 is devoid of human life and filled with ebil isk-printing tengus will CCP realize the error of their ways and smite them.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:52:00 -
[1890]
Originally by: davet517
Originally by: Phigmeta
When the members of what is a well known as notorious metagaming ***** corp that takes isk from rattbotters is patting you on the back .. you KNOW you've done goofed CCP
thats like a crackhead saying "GREAT JOB DEA... your efforts to slow the drug trade is going great"
You have failed to grasp our diabolical plan. We are morally outraged by botting and RMT, so, we intend to take trillions of ill-gotten isk from every RMT interest in the game while helping them to take over 0.0 in its entirety. Only when 0.0 is devoid of human life and filled with ebil isk-printing tengus will CCP realize the error of their ways and smite them.
Wow great plan ..... where do i get in on the action
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.05.12 16:55:00 -
[1891]
Originally by: Seth Rock
Originally by: Phigmeta stuff
thanks for confirming that you are infact clueless if you really think NC does not RMT/bot. How do you think your fc's pay their RL bills?
If this "DRF RMT'S!!!!!" gimmick is all you have to hold on to, then you should go ahead and uninstall eve as you've already lost. You're "coalition" is getting a******d everyday and you're too p***y to do anything about it but whine on the forums.
Afraid of losing your bots?
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:00:00 -
[1892]
Edited by: Phigmeta on 12/05/2011 17:01:59
Originally by: fattrader II
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Seth Rock
Originally by: Phigmeta stuff
thanks for confirming that you are infact clueless if you really think NC does not RMT/bot. How do you think your fc's pay their RL bills?
If this "DRF RMT'S!!!!!" gimmick is all you have to hold on to, then you should go ahead and uninstall eve as you've already lost. You're "coalition" is getting a******d everyday and you're too p***y to do anything about it but whine on the forums.
u mad ?
look at your own posts and try to say this with a straight face
Hell yes i am mad ... and i am done with this game ... I AM FINISHED
for the next 3 days I will be liquidating my assets and giving away all my isk. If you send me any amount of isk I will double it and send it back to you. Hurry as this offer will expire when i am out of isk.
Oh and Hydra ... when you guys gonna stop reloading and realize ... your shooting blanks.
On a side-note I want to be clear that i have no ill will for my Russian bros in game or IRL. I also do realize that NC has thier share of RMT'ers its a fact that actually irritates the hell out of me.
We could go on and on about whos mad and who is a RMT but that not to point of this thread.. the point is that CCP needs to FIX THE BUGS and not try to play god in the SANDBOX.
Will the NC and other large Col. Survive the stupidity of CCP .. yeah sure.
but will null sec? will eve itself? from this change yes... but look what their changes have done to lowsec.
Is Null Sec next?
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:04:00 -
[1893]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Imigo Montoya The NC has repelled invasion after invasion over the years...
Since all that valiant defensive work has been based exclusively on the teleportion system (bridges) and raw numbers, the outpouring of frustration is understandable.
Hate to break it to you, but the NC has existed longer than I've been playing, and I remember carriers, moms, titans, and bridges being introduced to the game. So, no, the NC hasn't held its space because of any of those things being introduced.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:10:00 -
[1894]
Originally by: Quinn Auer So instead of an unbelievably stupid plan we've got a believably stupid plan?
either way its an improvment.
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:14:00 -
[1895]
Originally by: ANGAL 2000 Why are the 30% of the thread about the nc crying no more 0.0 after this patch, It is evident 0.0 will still be their, And we had the same thing just over a month ago with the anom nurf and plex boost.
Because of the timing of these changes. They are nerfs to one thing after another that is being used to defend against an invasion by the DRF and PL. If CCP were to nerf scarriers or titans or T3 PVP abilities or titan bridges or drone mineral drops, no one would be surprised if DRF or PL started crying.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:27:00 -
[1896]
Originally by: Bagehi
Because of the timing of these changes. They are nerfs to one thing after another that is being used to defend against an invasion by the DRF and PL. If CCP were to nerf scarriers or titans or T3 PVP abilities or titan bridges or drone mineral drops, no one would be surprised if DRF or PL started crying.
You have failed to grasp CCPs diabolical plan. By buffing your space and nerfing the Russian's space, they have suckered the ebil RMTers into attacking Mitten's space, causing him to bring his high-powered lawyers and licensed private investigators to bear. If everything goes according to plan, the RMTers will be crushed at little or no cost to CCP.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:36:00 -
[1897]
Originally by: davet517
Originally by: Bagehi
Because of the timing of these changes. They are nerfs to one thing after another that is being used to defend against an invasion by the DRF and PL. If CCP were to nerf scarriers or titans or T3 PVP abilities or titan bridges or drone mineral drops, no one would be surprised if DRF or PL started crying.
You have failed to grasp CCPs diabolical plan. By buffing your space and nerfing the Russian's space, they have suckered the ebil RMTers into attacking Mitten's space, causing him to bring his high-powered lawyers and licensed private investigators to bear. If everything goes according to plan, the RMTers will be crushed at little or no cost to CCP.
Ahh man ... you give far to much credit to CCP .... keep in mind these are the people who can't seem to fix the overview bug that plagues us all ... ya i saw yall shooting one of your own a bit back too ....
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Susan Morse
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:50:00 -
[1898]
Let me quote a expression from our corp forum (0.0 corp btw) about CCP new idea
"Burn ****ers, burn"
The rest is too unfriendly to print it here.
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Major Stallion
The Dark Horses.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 17:53:00 -
[1899]
this thread has surpassed all of my wildest expectations...
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Sirus Prime
Caldari Xero Corporation SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:06:00 -
[1900]
This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:09:00 -
[1901]
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
Can I have your stuff?
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Steve Thomas
Minmatar Sebiestor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:12:00 -
[1902]
Originally by: Major Stallion this thread has surpassed all of my wildest expectations...
nah we need another 30 pages of postes to meet mine
.End of line.
If your too paranoid to play EvE. . . ...then your not paranoid enough to play EvE ----------------
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Frolicking Fairy
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:23:00 -
[1903]
long version ok yes i do hate this change since it will destroy bridge networks obviously, if you are going to keep this change of one jb per system atleast give teh induatrial guys some love. I can see your reason for not wanting people to push capital fleets through the jb but allow industrial type capitals to still use them, (rorquals and jf). i would love to make one little tweak for what its worth but allow 2 jb er system and still disallow combat caps but severly reduce the hp of the jb so a fleet can more easily incap them to make it so that people can not jump through as easily and also put a limit of how mch mass can pass through the jb in a 10 minute window so that an entire fleet cna not jsut appear in that system but they must slowly trickle in which woudl give the attackgin gang time to counter them. since people will still be able to get huge fleets around eve it will jsut take them one more jump if its one jb per system.
short version allow non cmobat jump drive ships to use the jb limit the mass per time that can go through the jb not the number of jb in a system
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Prez21
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 18:31:00 -
[1904]
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
Calm down, you seem awfully mad at the minute. Lets be honest your alliance shouldnt really hold 0.0 sov, you are quite bad, i know its not your fault but thats how it is. Jump bridges shouldnt exist, they make the game far to easy and i know eve isnt meant to be a job but it is meant to be a very harsh place to live and thats how it made its reputation. Im just glad ccp is finally taking steps to turning EVE back into the great game it once was but these changes still arent enough.
Yes supercaps are ruining the game and need a massive change and i know how logistics will now become impossible because before jump bridges 0.0 alliances never existed, alliances like ASCN never had a fully stocked market that would put any of todays 0.0 alliances to shame, alliances back in the day all lived on the edge of 0.0 space only dare treading into the vast unknown on extreme rare occasions
Come on people lets be honest, the only people against this change are people who dont want to work for there share of 0.0, this isnt nc vs everyone else ( even though most of the nc are the ones crying and wanting to play on easy made, shock horror) its simply the people who want all the rewards of 0.0 without a single risk. |
Vhaine Vhindiscar
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:10:00 -
[1905]
CCP do you even play this game anymore?
Please, gtfo of 0.0. You don't know what you're doing. You people destroy everything you touch.
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BOB DaBui1der
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:30:00 -
[1906]
Originally by: Vhaine Vhindiscar CCP do you even play this game anymore?
Please, gtfo of 0.0. You don't know what you're doing. You people destroy everything you touch.
of course they play the game, that's why they are making a MUCH needed change
~those who fail to adapt become a victim of evolution~
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Overlord PinKy
Gallente Unchained Potential Test Friends Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:36:00 -
[1907]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hey Soundwave, We will HEAR ABOUT IT? IT WON'T BE IMPLEMENTED BY THEN? SO WE JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH A LESSER PRODUCT TILL YOU GET AROUND FINISHING IT?
I hope what you mean by this is your planning to put more isk making opportunities into 0.0 for honest players (not botting southerners). How long has it been since you had to grind shooting red crosses for 8 hours on a saturday to pay for 2 new fleet fit bs's????
You make these changes, removing the good/helpful things before implementing something better/or that helps... I can't think of any other software I use daily that does that??? I can't think of any product manufacturer as a whole that does that...
Seriously blown away by what/how you operate, and I have played for almost 4 years now...
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Captain Darvok
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:46:00 -
[1908]
Before there were jump bridges there was massive 0.0 alliances living in the same regions as now.
then came jump bridges.. and all they are doing is make you use gates.
holy cheese its not that bad a nerf. Its not like they are saying... "Oi NC this is just against you!". What about the poor swines WAY down south. they will have similar problems... but the tears from the NC /o\
It means not having the ability to get to jita unmolested... I SAY GOOD!
YES TO THE 0.0 FIX!
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Vaju Katru
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:46:00 -
[1909]
Originally by: Overlord PinKy
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
Hey Soundwave, We will HEAR ABOUT IT? IT WON'T BE IMPLEMENTED BY THEN? SO WE JUST HAVE TO LIVE WITH A LESSER PRODUCT TILL YOU GET AROUND FINISHING IT?
I hope what you mean by this is your planning to put more isk making opportunities into 0.0 for honest players (not botting southerners). How long has it been since you had to grind shooting red crosses for 8 hours on a saturday to pay for 2 new fleet fit bs's????
You make these changes, removing the good/helpful things before implementing something better/or that helps... I can't think of any other software I use daily that does that??? I can't think of any product manufacturer as a whole that does that...
Seriously blown away by what/how you operate, and I have played for almost 4 years now...
All babies cry sometimes. They have to.
Do you need a hug?
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:56:00 -
[1910]
Originally by: Orzgur
Originally by: Alissa Solette SHOCKER: when I started out in 0.0 there were neither JBs nor JFs nor titan bridges and people had like 1 carrier per corp to move stuff around.
Yes, it was more work (for logistics guys/carebears) Yes, it was riskier (for everyone) but also Yes, PVP was a lot more commonplace (especially non boring non sov blob battles such as disrupting supply lines etc. which is currently very difficult due to super-safe and super-fast travel nearly for free)
Sure, if your only concern is how you can maximize your ratting earnings (or those of your bots) and reduce the risk then I can see how you'd find this bad. If you actually play the fun part of game on the other hand then you should be rejoicing.
How stupid are you? There was less sov blob battles back then because NOBODY HAD BLOBS. You just said each corp had one carrier, how can you blob with one carrier. Most illogical post ever
Or CCP wants to see 0.0 transition backwards to those days when survival revolved around clustered, SMALL groups of people working closely together. I hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure CCP is sick of mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land and wants to watch the universe burn. Really.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:56:00 -
[1911]
Originally by: Miso Hawnee Edited by: Miso Hawnee on 11/05/2011 22:40:45
Originally by: Ranger 1
Originally by: Sidus Sarmiang Edited by: Sidus Sarmiang on 11/05/2011 22:05:03 One of the biggest issues I see is that it's very easy for "elite PvP" types to attack sov-holders, but there's no mechanism for sov holders to hit them back in a meaningful way beyond trying to kill their supercaps (which are a major balance issue in and of themselves). If anything, that needs a look and some serious fixing.
I agree with this. It would add depth to the game if industrial giants that lacked PVP experience (rather than sheer numbers) could flex their economic muscles a bit more directly to bring pressure to bear on PVP centric entities.
Who knows, perhaps this will spark the return of the large Merc outfits that could be hired to do that very thing.
PVP entities typically have no persistent infrastructure in game. Pandemic Legion for example has no presence once they log off, yet they have the second largest Capital Fleet in the game. All of which exists with absolutely nothing to defend. How epic is warfare when entire super fleets can disappear in 15 minutes. How are you supposed to combat entities that are 100% offense and by the graces of bad game design are not required to even set up the most basic of forward operating bases.
What we have is the ability to wield the power of super fleets without the requirement to have a port. Seems a bit off balance doesn't it?
Indeed, which is why we will most likely see sharp reductions in the ability to jump/cyno bridge caps in the near future.
Sadly, when that happens PL will probably not be the most outspoken objectors to that change.
Also, you do realize that while merc contracts often involve the destruction of their targets infrastructure that is not always their main objective. They can be, and often are, hired specifically to counter their targets cap fleet.
===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 19:59:00 -
[1912]
Originally by: Captain Darvok Before there were jump bridges there was massive 0.0 alliances living in the same regions as now.
then came jump bridges.. and all they are doing is make you use gates.
holy cheese its not that bad a nerf. Its not like they are saying... "Oi NC this is just against you!". What about the poor swines WAY down south. they will have similar problems... but the tears from the NC /o\
It means not having the ability to get to jita unmolested... I SAY GOOD!
YES TO THE 0.0 FIX!
No, no, no! Null sec was simply non-functional and no one ever lived in it before jump bridges. It was simply not possible!.. Right?...
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:02:00 -
[1913]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: davet517
Originally by: Bagehi
Because of the timing of these changes. They are nerfs to one thing after another that is being used to defend against an invasion by the DRF and PL. If CCP were to nerf scarriers or titans or T3 PVP abilities or titan bridges or drone mineral drops, no one would be surprised if DRF or PL started crying.
You have failed to grasp CCPs diabolical plan. By buffing your space and nerfing the Russian's space, they have suckered the ebil RMTers into attacking Mitten's space, causing him to bring his high-powered lawyers and licensed private investigators to bear. If everything goes according to plan, the RMTers will be crushed at little or no cost to CCP.
Ahh man ... you give far to much credit to CCP .... keep in mind these are the people who can't seem to fix the overview bug that plagues us all ... ya i saw yall shooting one of your own a bit back too ....
We do this coz we are bored sometimes.. and for fun.. 100ppl laughing well worth reimbursemnt of a bs stuff like that helps get more ppl in fleet.
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Prez21
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:09:00 -
[1914]
Originally by: Overlord PinKy
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Ay Liz F On to the great plan you have. Like others already pointed out, we haven't seen your outline for 0.0 and only see you taking away things that make our lives easier. Maybe you should add something new.. Incentives to live in 0.0 as you called it. Taking away all the good stuff (anomalies, now convenient JB networks) and making our lives miserable until you decide to add something new in 2 years doesn't sound very appealing to anyone.
Won't be two years. You'll hear the early parts of it before this month is up.
How long has it been since you had to grind shooting red crosses for 8 hours on a saturday to pay for 2 new fleet fit bs's????
See this is the problem, your all spoilt whiney brats. CCP made isk making too easy, 0.0 was made too profitable as was level 4 empire missions and this is why you see so many super caps. Alliances can constantly lose BS fleets and it doesnt hurt them isk wise, big coalitions can lose multiple super caps and it doesnt affect them, this is all down to how easy ccp made it to farm isk.
This game needs to be made a lot harder, too many whiney little girls living in 0.0 who believe because they have huge coalitions backing them that they have a divine right to as much isk as they want and without and risks and look where its got us, super caps online, so dont cry about the game you all made.
I hope CCP nerfs it all to hell
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Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:09:00 -
[1915]
the dripping of NC tears is so steady that you could use it as a clock to count towards their righteous downfall. gf, gf.
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:14:00 -
[1916]
Originally by: Panda Name the dripping of NC tears is so steady that you could use it as a clock to count towards their righteous downfall. gf, gf.
not empty quoting
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Better Than You
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:16:00 -
[1917]
I run logistics for my corp. Yes we are a renter/pet but that is besides the point. Now thanks to bitter losers who got sand kicked in their face, CCP is totally obliterating the jump bridge network.
So as a logistics person, care to share what in the **** am I supposed to do to get supplies to my corp? We are not exactly three jumps from Jita or have a titan bridge available to us 23/7. Well? Thats what I ****ing thought. You just ruined us. Good job CCP. Those who hate the NC and friends were incompetent in removing us so they get the game developers to change it to do the work for them.
First the anomaly nerf and now this. What next? We have to line up in pods for our enemy to pad their kill boards? YOU KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS GAME THAN PVP YOU TWITS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT IT INSTEAD OF BEING TOTAL ****WITS GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- **Friendship will always trump the desire to fight!** |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:26:00 -
[1918]
Originally by: Better Than You I run logistics for my corp. Yes we are a renter/pet but that is besides the point. Now thanks to bitter losers who got sand kicked in their face, CCP is totally obliterating the jump bridge network.
So as a logistics person, care to share what in the **** am I supposed to do to get supplies to my corp? We are not exactly three jumps from Jita or have a titan bridge available to us 23/7. Well? Thats what I ****ing thought. You just ruined us. Good job CCP. Those who hate the NC and friends were incompetent in removing us so they get the game developers to change it to do the work for them.
First the anomaly nerf and now this. What next? We have to line up in pods for our enemy to pad their kill boards? YOU KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS GAME THAN PVP YOU TWITS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT IT INSTEAD OF BEING TOTAL ****WITS GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cant blame ppl for being a little mad, but the sun was shining all day so i find it hard to be mad I totally agree.. if i wanted a deathmatch arena i would have chosen a different game. I want a virtual world with conflict.. seems like ccp wants the virtual world thing to be secondary. may be fine wouldnt fit my playstyle.. maybe if the made it so resouces were more plentiful it would.
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Scouty Mcscoutson
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:37:00 -
[1919]
Originally by: Better Than You I run logistics for my corp. Yes we are a renter/pet but that is besides the point. Now thanks to bitter losers who got sand kicked in their face, CCP is totally obliterating the jump bridge network.
So as a logistics person, care to share what in the **** am I supposed to do to get supplies to my corp? We are not exactly three jumps from Jita or have a titan bridge available to us 23/7. Well? Thats what I ****ing thought. You just ruined us. Good job CCP. Those who hate the NC and friends were incompetent in removing us so they get the game developers to change it to do the work for them.
First the anomaly nerf and now this. What next? We have to line up in pods for our enemy to pad their kill boards? YOU KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS GAME THAN PVP YOU TWITS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT IT INSTEAD OF BEING TOTAL ****WITS GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe you could do what people did before jump bridges and get your corp/alliance to help you? or you could just cry like a little ***got oh wait..... |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:54:00 -
[1920]
like we needed a cloaky harassment/Supercap stealt buff? Already had one major buff to afk-cloak "pvp".
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Mr Funkadelic
x13 Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 20:58:00 -
[1921]
Sounds like alot of the crying people have to learn how to use a gate again, like the good old days.
good job ccp.
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QueenSpider
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:00:00 -
[1922]
\0/ changes yaay!
I believe these changes are good, they break down the max power an alliance has now wich gives newer groups a better chance on getting a piece of the action.
Having 2 powerblocks is just f'ing boring.. always the same people with differnt names in nullsec. Good that it will change :-)
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:04:00 -
[1923]
Originally by: QueenSpider \0/ changes yaay!
I believe these changes are good, they break down the max power an alliance has now wich gives newer groups a better chance on getting a piece of the action.
Having 2 powerblocks is just f'ing boring.. always the same people with differnt names in nullsec. Good that it will change :-)
It wont.. thats the thing.. they same ppl with titan bridges will still be best friends forever, ccp cant patch out human behavior. Only things gonna change that if they make all those people quit the game
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Holdout
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:12:00 -
[1924]
CALLING ALL NULLBEARS...CALLING ALL NULLBEARS...PLEASE REPORT TO HISEC...REPEAT...PLEASE REPORT TO HISEC...OVER.
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Albus Thumbledore
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:15:00 -
[1925]
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
3. The same nasty CCP that gave you all the Tech moons ? Stop whining.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Paragon Fury Cascade Imminent
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:18:00 -
[1926]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: QueenSpider \0/ changes yaay!
I believe these changes are good, they break down the max power an alliance has now wich gives newer groups a better chance on getting a piece of the action.
Having 2 powerblocks is just f'ing boring.. always the same people with differnt names in nullsec. Good that it will change :-)
It wont.. thats the thing.. they same ppl with titan bridges will still be best friends forever, ccp cant patch out human behavior. Only things gonna change that if they make all those people quit the game
Here's the thing about that. It's interesting how under the right conditions (and it usually doesn't take all that much) bff's often turn into the bitterest of rivals.
And really what is refered to as bff is often little more than enlightened self-interest.
This isn't aimed at any one group in particular, it applies to all equally. ===== The world will not end in 2012, however there will be a serious nerf to Planetary Interaction. |
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:19:00 -
[1927]
Originally by: Better Than You I run logistics for my corp. Yes we are a renter/pet but that is besides the point. Now thanks to bitter losers who got sand kicked in their face, CCP is totally obliterating the jump bridge network.
Actually, to "totally obliterate" would be to remove them from the game altogether. You'll still have JBs to some degree, which still gives you an advantage as defenders, but just no longer to the point of not needing to use regular stargates at all. You do know what a stargate looks like, right?
Originally by: Better Than You So as a logistics person, care to share what in the **** am I supposed to do to get supplies to my corp? We are not exactly three jumps from Jita or have a titan bridge available to us 23/7.
Freighter convoys. Read through the last few pages of this thread about the stories of ASCN freighter convoys 50+ jumps through nullsec, each way. I was there too. Sure it's easier to hotdrop these days (and I do think caps also need a jump range nerf), but it was easier to logon trap in those days, too.
Originally by: Better Than You Those who hate the NC and friends were incompetent in removing us so they get the game developers to change it to do the work for them.
Originally by: Better Than You YOU KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS GAME THAN PVP YOU TWITS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT IT INSTEAD OF BEING TOTAL ****WITS GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Seems to me they did, and they decided that there actually needs to be some risk to go with those other rewards.
About time, too.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:20:00 -
[1928]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 21:20:44
Originally by: Albus Thumbledore
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
3. The same nasty CCP that gave you all the Tech moons ? Stop whining.
Right.. ccp gave them the tech moons.(ironic)
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:20:00 -
[1929]
Edited by: Dray on 12/05/2011 21:20:57 Not enough tbh, should remove JB's totally from the game, if ASCN could build outposts and survive in Feythabolis there's no reason why others can't do the same now, ASCN used get a lot of stick for being massive carebears but listening to some of people in this thread makes me wonder if we did them a disservice.
All we need now is super caps nerfed to f**k and all will be good.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:23:00 -
[1930]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 21:23:37
Originally by: Dray Edited by: Dray on 12/05/2011 21:20:57 Not enough tbh, should remove JB's totally from the game, if ASCN could build outposts and survive in Feythabolis there's no reason why others can't do the same now, ASCN used get a lot of stick for being massive carebears but listening to some of people in this thread makes me wonder if we did them a disservice.
All we need now is super caps nerfed to f**k and all will be good.
Theyre gonna make all the good targets quit the game, if they keep putting in isk/timesinks and hurting the newer non capitalship players.
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Alexander Knott
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:30:00 -
[1931]
Originally by: Feyleaf Right.. ccp gave them the tech moons.(ironic)
Guess he should've said "changed industry mechanics so that the Tech you already owned became incredibly valuable." Seems like his version was close enough though. There was tech, it was moderately valuable, then CCP made it omfg valuable in a single patch.
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Jelek Coro
Erase Rewind
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:33:00 -
[1932]
Originally by: Better Than You I run logistics for my corp. Yes we are a renter/pet but that is besides the point. Now thanks to bitter losers who got sand kicked in their face, CCP is totally obliterating the jump bridge network.
So as a logistics person, care to share what in the **** am I supposed to do to get supplies to my corp? We are not exactly three jumps from Jita or have a titan bridge available to us 23/7. Well? Thats what I ****ing thought. You just ruined us. Good job CCP. Those who hate the NC and friends were incompetent in removing us so they get the game developers to change it to do the work for them.
First the anomaly nerf and now this. What next? We have to line up in pods for our enemy to pad their kill boards? YOU KNOW THERE IS MORE TO THIS GAME THAN PVP YOU TWITS! MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE A LOOK AT IT INSTEAD OF BEING TOTAL ****WITS GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder how alliances coped in deep nul sec before bridges?
Freighter ops.... or.... heaven forbid!!! they mined and built stuff and were self sufficient without Jita shopping trips!!!
One JB per system is not obliterating it. The only people who can "ruin" your corp are yourselfs - specifically you, since you only think logistics is setting up a pos and linking JBs.
Reliance on Jita means you fail and your corp fails.
Have fun now swimming in tears!
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:33:00 -
[1933]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 21:33:34
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Feyleaf Right.. ccp gave them the tech moons.(ironic)
Guess he should've said "changed industry mechanics so that the Tech you already owned became incredibly valuable." Seems like his version was close enough though. There was tech, it was moderately valuable, then CCP made it omfg valuable in a single patch.
Does that make you feel bad inside? I think it did.. here have a cookie.
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:45:00 -
[1934]
Originally by: Feyleaf Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 21:29:04
Originally by: Dray Edited by: Dray on 12/05/2011 21:20:57 Not enough tbh, should remove JB's totally from the game, if ASCN could build outposts and survive in Feythabolis there's no reason why others can't do the same now, ASCN used get a lot of stick for being massive carebears but listening to some of people in this thread makes me wonder if we did them a disservice.
All we need now is super caps nerfed to f**k and all will be good.
Theyre gonna make all the good targets quit the game, if they keep putting in isk/timesinks and hurting the newer non capitalship players.
Cant wait to see whats next.
I don't think they will, people will get on with like they always have, the problem is newer players who've never known any different from jb networks, maybe some will quit but it will not be a mass exodus, most will suck it and see besides there's still jump freighters, carriers, and titan bridges, even if you don't have a capital pilot I find it hard to believe that any corp in null sec, sov holding or renter, wont have a cap pilot who can help out.
I still think complete removal is the way forward, not this half-arsed nerf.
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Bobbeh
Minmatar Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:48:00 -
[1935]
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Feyleaf Right.. ccp gave them the tech moons.(ironic)
Guess he should've said "changed industry mechanics so that the Tech you already owned became incredibly valuable." Seems like his version was close enough though. There was tech, it was moderately valuable, then CCP made it omfg valuable in a single patch.
Honestly it was probably like
" Whats the thing that causes people to invade other people? Isk Generation, We don't like the north. So lets give them the Biggest Isk moons in the game so that everyone else in eve Wants their space."
By doing so drive All the Drone and Southern alliances to want the NC removed from our Space for the technetium.
We will see if it works
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.12 21:57:00 -
[1936]
Originally by: Bobbeh
Originally by: Alexander Knott
Originally by: Feyleaf Right.. ccp gave them the tech moons.(ironic)
Guess he should've said "changed industry mechanics so that the Tech you already owned became incredibly valuable." Seems like his version was close enough though. There was tech, it was moderately valuable, then CCP made it omfg valuable in a single patch.
Honestly it was probably like
" Whats the thing that causes people to invade other people? Isk Generation, We don't like the north. So lets give them the Biggest Isk moons in the game so that everyone else in eve Wants their space."
By doing so drive All the Drone and Southern alliances to want the NC removed from our Space for the technetium.
We will see if it works
Confirming the NC were awesome until CCP told me otherwise |
Larkonis Trassler
NibbleTek Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:12:00 -
[1937]
Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 12/05/2011 22:13:27 A funny thought just struck me. The people here complaining about this were the same people (or at least of the same ilk) cheering when the Nanonerf was announced.
The shoe is firmly on the other foot now.
Originally by: Albus Thumbledore
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
3. The same nasty CCP that gave you all the Tech moons ? Stop whining.
>implying that the average NC scrub gets to see any of that isk.
Trolls and Tribulations: Musings of a Spaceship Politician |
Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:18:00 -
[1938]
Originally by: Ohh Yeah Or CCP wants to see 0.0 transition backwards to those days when survival revolved around clustered, SMALL groups of people working closely together. I hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure CCP is sick of mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land and wants to watch the universe burn. Really.
See, that's the problem right there.
When, as a game designer, you create a sandbox and push for emergent gameplay you release some control of your creation and put it in the hands of the players. It's what makes an emergent sandbox great. It's what makes EVE great.
When you start saying "We don't want people playing in the sandbox the way they want to, we want them playing the way way we want them to", you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With that simple statement you're making it a game designer driven game, not a player driven game.
So funnily enough, for all those people supporting the JB nerf and saying "Harden up. If you don't like it, gb2WoW", this change is fundamentally making EVE more like WoW - a game where the game designers, not the players, decide what kind of experience you should have.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:28:00 -
[1939]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
Originally by: Ohh Yeah Or CCP wants to see 0.0 transition backwards to those days when survival revolved around clustered, SMALL groups of people working closely together. I hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure CCP is sick of mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land and wants to watch the universe burn. Really.
See, that's the problem right there.
When, as a game designer, you create a sandbox and push for emergent gameplay you release some control of your creation and put it in the hands of the players. It's what makes an emergent sandbox great. It's what makes EVE great.
When you start saying "We don't want people playing in the sandbox the way they want to, we want them playing the way way we want them to", you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With that simple statement you're making it a game designer driven game, not a player driven game.
So funnily enough, for all those people supporting the JB nerf and saying "Harden up. If you don't like it, gb2WoW", this change is fundamentally making EVE more like WoW - a game where the game designers, not the players, decide what kind of experience you should have.
this is what i fear.. why im here.
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:29:00 -
[1940]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 12/05/2011 22:13:27 A funny thought just struck me. The people here complaining about this were the same people (or at least of the same ilk) cheering when the Nanonerf was announced.
The shoe is firmly on the other foot now.
What about people who rather welcome both of those, btw
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Needa3
Minmatar BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:30:00 -
[1941]
Originally by: JC Anderson Edited by: JC Anderson on 12/05/2011 00:46:24
Back when I was with the ASCN, (Yes I know, we sucked) jump bridges did not exist... Jump freighters did not exist... Warp to 0 did not exist (Though we all had thousands of insta's)... And at the time even jump drive capable standard carriers and dreads were extremely rare...
What we had was numbers to include us in the alliances with thousands of members category. We held on to our space for quite awhile until BOB, MC, and a few others finally dismantled the ASCN in an extremely successful invasion.
My point is that despite lacking these things, we still were able to build an economic infrastructure and sustain ourselves as well as our individual members through careful management. We actually had to patrol our space, and guard the entrances to it as well. And once every two weeks we would form a freighter convoy with about 300 or so escort ships and fly the 45 jumps gate to gate from our space to the main trade hub that we used in Empire. We used an advance scout fleet in front, another fleet of escorts WITH the freighters, and a final fleet that stayed one behind to watch for attackers coming up from the rear.
One of the best parts of the game was that there were more options when it came to attacking your enemies than simply invading their space. And one of those ways was to attack their supply lines directly by staging ambushes on their freighter convoys when they were most vulnerable. Things such as this provided a way for smaller groups to inflict crippling blows against the larger alliances.
It's just sad that with all the additions to make things "easier" and "safer" in null, these sort of things no longer take place as there is no longer a need. It was a big part of the game, and I have to admit that I miss it.
spot on
CCP, remove the jumpbridges. it was doable and fun in the old days. now give us back those days
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:31:00 -
[1942]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 22:31:46
Originally by: Di Mulle
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 12/05/2011 22:13:27 A funny thought just struck me. The people here complaining about this were the same people (or at least of the same ilk) cheering when the Nanonerf was announced.
The shoe is firmly on the other foot now.
What about people who rather welcome both of those, btw
Nanonerf awesome.. this might be too. Nerfing/changing things on short notice to induce more conflict is not.
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Di Mulle
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 22:35:00 -
[1943]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
See, that's the problem right there.
When, as a game designer, you create a sandbox and push for emergent gameplay you release some control of your creation and put it in the hands of the players. It's what makes an emergent sandbox great. It's what makes EVE great.
When you start saying "We don't want people playing in the sandbox the way they want to, we want them playing the way way we want them to", you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With that simple statement you're making it a game designer driven game, not a player driven game.
So funnily enough, for all those people supporting the JB nerf and saying "Harden up. If you don't like it, gb2WoW", this change is fundamentally making EVE more like WoW - a game where the game designers, not the players, decide what kind of experience you should have.
See, that's another problem here. "Sandbox" buzzword is really overused.
Even, if the devs, let's say, would want to change the way the game is played, they in our case do nothing which affects it directly. No limiting of blue standings, or whatever stupid idea regularly surfaces in F&I.
One may say, they change a form of sandbox. You are warmly welcome to play the way you used to. And guess what, you still can do it. Time will tell, maybe we will.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:40:00 -
[1944]
Originally by: Di Mulle
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
See, that's the problem right there.
When, as a game designer, you create a sandbox and push for emergent gameplay you release some control of your creation and put it in the hands of the players. It's what makes an emergent sandbox great. It's what makes EVE great.
When you start saying "We don't want people playing in the sandbox the way they want to, we want them playing the way way we want them to", you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With that simple statement you're making it a game designer driven game, not a player driven game.
So funnily enough, for all those people supporting the JB nerf and saying "Harden up. If you don't like it, gb2WoW", this change is fundamentally making EVE more like WoW - a game where the game designers, not the players, decide what kind of experience you should have.
See, that's another problem here. "Sandbox" buzzword is really overused.
Even, if the devs, let's say, would want to change the way the game is played, they in our case do nothing which affects it directly. No limiting of blue standings, or whatever stupid idea regularly surfaces in F&I.
One may say, they change a form of sandbox. You are warmly welcome to play the way you used to. And guess what, you still can do it. Time will tell, maybe we will.
Says the alt in default corp.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:49:00 -
[1945]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 22:54:55 Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 22:49:05
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler Edited by: Larkonis Trassler on 12/05/2011 22:13:27 A funny thought just struck me. The people here complaining about this were the same people (or at least of the same ilk) cheering when the Nanonerf was announced.
The shoe is firmly on the other foot now.
Originally by: Albus Thumbledore
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
3. The same nasty CCP that gave you all the Tech moons ? Stop whining.
>implying that the average NC scrub gets to see any of that isk.
Full ship reinbursement for properly fit ships... including carriers for strat ops? Free everything in many areas for new people, I know you guys are all "old money" most current players are not.
btw have you checked the loot in 0.0 lately? its not as good as when you pve'd.
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Hexman
The Ankou Raiden.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 22:59:00 -
[1946]
jeez, im not reading 65 pages just to find out they're nothing but
SWEET SWEET NC TEARS!
Cry more, please.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:08:00 -
[1947]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 23:11:18 in a few years this is gonna be the pure hardcore skirmish game that you guys including soundwave wants(your killboards are gonna suffer in % newbie tears will no longer be around much.)
well pl wants titandrops online and this certainly makes that a little safer.
ccp seems to want bot-fueled 1337pvp or atleast eve without certain groups and playstyles.
Will be a different game atleast.. better who can say
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Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:12:00 -
[1948]
yes pls
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Flinx Evenstar
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:13:00 -
[1949]
Forum whine index is over 9000.
Good work CCP :) ---
I does like have spaceship vids n stuff
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.12 23:20:00 -
[1950]
Originally by: Di Mulle See, that's another problem here. "Sandbox" buzzword is really overused.
When it's used in promotion of the product (The Butterfly Effect), it's less of an overused buzzword and more of an advertised key feature of the game.
They also use the term "emergent gameplay". You can't have that without players getting to decide how they want to play the game. When you start playing against the players instead of the game, that's where the good content (and emergent gameplay) comes in. When devs start deciding that players aren't playing against other players the "right" way, and make changes with the intent of changing how players chose to interact with each other, then you move away from emergent gameplay.
Blue lists is a player decision. Each player chooses how they want to approach it. Some do it one way, some do it another way. But ultimately the players are deciding, NOT the devs.
Let's face it, the PvE content in EVE is pretty terrible. Once you've beaten that 10/10 plex (or any other PvE instance) for the first time, the challenge is gone and it's just work for an income. EVE's ongoing content is reliant on players deciding how they interact with each other. If the devs who make the terrible PvE content start dictating how PvP content should be, then all of EVE will be terrible, not just the PvE.
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|
Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:20:00 -
[1951]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya When, as a game designer, you create a sandbox and push for emergent gameplay you release some control of your creation and put it in the hands of the players. It's what makes an emergent sandbox great. It's what makes EVE great.
When you start saying "We don't want people playing in the sandbox the way they want to, we want them playing the way way we want them to", you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With that simple statement you're making it a game designer driven game, not a player driven game.
Oh come on. Anyone could use that same generalised argument for any other historical change to the game they didn't like. "Ohnoes, my poor sandbox!"
You're forgetting something: the sandbox isn't actually yours, it's CCP's. Not the players', not the CSM's, but CCP's. Which only leads us to the obvious counter that, while itself it just as tired as the argument, is still no less applicable:
[ ] adapt [ ] die
Originally by: Imigo Montoya So funnily enough, for all those people supporting the JB nerf and saying "Harden up. If you don't like it, gb2WoW", this change is fundamentally making EVE more like WoW - a game where the game designers, not the players, decide what kind of experience you should have.
So what you're trying to say is that changing Eve to promote increased risk of a somewhat meaningful death penalty, somehow makes the game more like WoW where there is practically no death penalty whatsoever?
OK.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:21:00 -
[1952]
Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 23:22:27 Edited by: Feyleaf on 12/05/2011 23:21:05
Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Forum whine index is over 9000.
Good work CCP :)
Something to do while getting blueballed until next hotdrop atleast we are winning the war. Lets see when the change hits if that makes a difference there.. i dont really think so.
@Ben > more like adapt or leave.. and I hate that idea.
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Bobbi Attwell
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:31:00 -
[1953]
The jb changes are the worst idea that's come out of ccp in a while, and that's a hard thing to manage.
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Flinx Evenstar
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.12 23:54:00 -
[1954]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Something to do while getting blueballed until next hotdrop atleast we are winning the war.
9 posts per page now. You are winning this war as well ---
I does like have spaceship vids n stuff
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Ze Beeblebrox
Amarr Negotium Holding Negotium Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:02:00 -
[1955]
CCP just doesn't get it !
By making this game more and more inconvenient, by stupidly nerfing everything, you will just loose more and more customers and this game will get less and less interesting for any player !
You mostly killed 0.0 with your last nerf, which you knowingly kept almost secret before implementation and which restulted in vast devastation of 0.0 !
Now you are making ordinary deep space logistics even more inconvenient !
You should not limit the Jumpbridges in a system ! You should do exactly the contrary !
1. Make Jumpbridges connectable towards more other Jumpbridges, so any alliance could build a convenient Network. 2. Remove the password on the Jumpbridge ! So Enemies could use them, too ! 3. Remove the fuel consumption of the Jumpbridge, just let it consume the ISK for the Upgrade. 4. Make it more easy to intercept transports at jumpbridges ! 5. Instead of POSes with Jumpbridges, do create an anchorable Jumpbridge Structure, which is completely unarmed and indestructable as long as Soverignity lasts in a System.
Idea: Do not annoy the player by making things more difficult. Do Encourage intercepting players by easening their gameplay.
The thoughts of CCP should always be: - If you have something where your solution would lead to more inconvenience of the player, your customer, is there an alternative solution which would make gameplay more comfortable ? - Boost, not Nerf ! - Enhance, not Degrade !
---
But as with the idiotic recent 0.0-Nerf, I bet noone at CCP, no GM, no DEV, noone resonsible will read this. And I bet they are even more stubborn and stupid to even reconsider such stupidities as in this devblog and as happened with the recent Anomaly-Nerf !
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Sekhmet Orion
Mad-Warping-Maniacs
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:10:00 -
[1956]
Originally by: Ze Beeblebrox
You mostly killed 0.0 with your last nerf, which you knowingly kept almost secret before implementation and which restulted in vast devastation of 0.0 !
No it didn't, try to keep up. 0.0 space is still a war zone as it should be.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:40:00 -
[1957]
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
AMEN!
+1 --- In Null and Low.
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Gimpb
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:41:00 -
[1958]
While I like the JB change, capital ship travel mechanics probably need to be looked at and adjusted at the same time.
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NeoKarn
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 00:50:00 -
[1959]
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there?
No. Thats why we keep sending freighters to Jita.
Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough?
No. Apart from moongoo and faction/officer gear everything flows from Empire to 0.0 Hell most supercap production is done with minerals imported directly from jita via recycled mods/ammo
He's a better idea for "Player Interaction". Give us a dedicated Ore/mineral hauler and a new type of riod that has tons of trit in it. Make Mining profitable in 0.0 an then watch the roaming gangs have fun hunting miners :-) and nerf mineral compression rather than JB's. Oh an nerf alloys as well. Drone region are far to powerful an advantage if u want god awful amounts of supercaps.
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Feyleaf
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:51:00 -
[1960]
Originally by: JC Anderson
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
AMEN!
+1 --- In Null and Low.
nah its nice.. just make it like wh.. or session timer delay it when entering system. Local important for "player interaction"
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cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers Ignore This.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:55:00 -
[1961]
I actually like the sound of these changes :)
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.13 00:56:00 -
[1962]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 13/05/2011 00:57:50
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: JC Anderson
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
AMEN!
+1 --- In Null and Low.
nah its nice.. just make it like wh.. or session timer delay it when entering system. Local important for "player interaction"
Either of those would work.
Preference towards WH local mechanics though.
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stonewall ironwill
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Posted - 2011.05.13 01:03:00 -
[1963]
This is possibly the best change CCP has ever done.
Changes in game mechanics and the fact it is in fact a sandbox because all of eve with the exception of that ******ed blue blob (NC) is why this game is still interesting after all this time and all the other MMOs you have are collecting dust.
This change will hopefully make massive blue blocks a thing of the past since people that want to pvp donÆt want to spend all their time jumping gates. PVPers will leave massive blue blobs for smaller pvp orientated alliances, and a bunch of ratting care bears and miners will soon get crushed by pvp vets much like we are seeing happen to the NC atm.
Null sec is for pvp!!! Anyone complaining about it not being safe out in null sec or there is too much risk biomass yourself now start over in empire againà.try to learn something this time.
Good job on this one CCP
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:17:00 -
[1964]
Originally by: stonewall ironwill This is possibly the best change CCP has ever done.
Changes in game mechanics and the fact it is in fact a sandbox because all of eve with the exception of that ******ed blue blob (NC) is why this game is still interesting after all this time and all the other MMOs you have are collecting dust.
This change will hopefully make massive blue blocks a thing of the past since people that want to pvp donÆt want to spend all their time jumping gates. PVPers will leave massive blue blobs for smaller pvp orientated alliances, and a bunch of ratting care bears and miners will soon get crushed by pvp vets much like we are seeing happen to the NC atm.
Null sec is for pvp!!! Anyone complaining about it not being safe out in null sec or there is too much risk biomass yourself now start over in empire againà.try to learn something this time.
Good job on this one CCP
You've never seen a blob I'm sure. You think 25 people is a blob. No that wont change, you'll still be whining and crying because you don't have enough friends to take on more than a solo miner in an osprey. Most "blobs" are used in sov warfare, something you'll never see", and are group of 100 or more. But you say you're looking forward to the NC going down because there wont be blue blocks, wrongo. It will still be a blue bloc, Whitenoise and DRF are the ones trying to take NC space, they want to bot in drone space, and exploit the tech moons, double this for their RMT empire. Then the rmters and botters will control most of null sec. But they wont blob you anymore I guess, unless 5 supers is a blob, but thats ok, you dont mind supers you just dont like the nc.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:18:00 -
[1965]
Originally by: Ben Derindar Oh come on. Anyone could use that same generalised argument for any other historical change to the game they didn't like. "Ohnoes, my poor sandbox!"
You're forgetting something: the sandbox isn't actually yours, it's CCP's. Not the players', not the CSM's, but CCP's. Which only leads us to the obvious counter that, while itself is just as tired as the argument, is still no less applicable:
[ ] adapt [ ] die
Originally by: Imigo Montoya So funnily enough, for all those people supporting the JB nerf and saying "Harden up. If you don't like it, gb2WoW", this change is fundamentally making EVE more like WoW - a game where the game designers, not the players, decide what kind of experience you should have.
So what you're trying to say is that changing Eve to promote increased risk of a somewhat meaningful death penalty, somehow makes the game more like WoW where there is practically no death penalty whatsoever?
OK.
I'm not talking about any arbitrary change. I'm not saying risk of meaningful death should go. Absolutely not.
My comment came in response to this:
Originally by: Ohh Yeah I hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure CCP is sick of mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land and wants to watch the universe burn. Really
Please also note my post made just at the same time as yours. Feyleaf seemed to get the right interpretation of what I was meaning.
What I AM talking about is developers trying to dictate exactly how players decide to interact with each other. This game is full of game mechanics that encourage players to interact with each other, whether that interaction is hostile or supportive. That's what makes EVE fantastic - it's a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG, and that's the way it should be.
The way I see it is that it's the dev's role to encourage player interaction, but not to dictate how those players interact. When devs start dictating how players should interact, it becomes less "emergent sandbox" and more "theme park ride". Sure, it's CCP's game, not the player's game, but it's the players and the community that make this game great, not CCP. CCP make it good by themselves, and they make it great by handing over a lot of the control to players, both in terms of things like the API and the player created tools, and in terms of how players interact in the emergent sandbox.
Funny thing is, if you don't like the mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land, here are your options:
[ ] adapt [ ] die
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:19:00 -
[1966]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: stonewall ironwill This is possibly the best change CCP has ever done.
Changes in game mechanics and the fact it is in fact a sandbox because all of eve with the exception of that ******ed blue blob (NC) is why this game is still interesting after all this time and all the other MMOs you have are collecting dust.
This change will hopefully make massive blue blocks a thing of the past since people that want to pvp donÆt want to spend all their time jumping gates. PVPers will leave massive blue blobs for smaller pvp orientated alliances, and a bunch of ratting care bears and miners will soon get crushed by pvp vets much like we are seeing happen to the NC atm.
Null sec is for pvp!!! Anyone complaining about it not being safe out in null sec or there is too much risk biomass yourself now start over in empire againà.try to learn something this time.
Good job on this one CCP
You've never seen a blob I'm sure. You think 25 people is a blob. No that wont change, you'll still be whining and crying because you don't have enough friends to take on more than a solo miner in an osprey. Most "blobs" are used in sov warfare, something you'll never see", and are group of 100 or more. But you say you're looking forward to the NC going down because there wont be blue blocks, wrongo. It will still be a blue bloc, Whitenoise and DRF are the ones trying to take NC space, they want to bot in drone space, and exploit the tech moons, double this for their RMT empire. Then the rmters and botters will control most of null sec. But they wont blob you anymore I guess, unless 5 supers is a blob, but thats ok, you dont mind supers you just dont like the nc.
Well even 100 or so is a pretty conservative estimate now days.
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:27:00 -
[1967]
Originally by: Panda Name
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Originally by: Panda Name one doesn't even need to read the specifics of the upcoming changes to see that it's a good thing. simply stated, the extreme echoing of NC tears puts my heart at rest in the knowledge that CCP is doing the right thing. may the amarrian gods bless you, CCP.
Be careful what you post, friend. Statements like that, with a character in a corp with an empire's name in it, prove that a notable portion of the people who approve of this don't actually know anything meaningful about the change. You're approving it because of vindictiveness rather than it actually promoting its intended effect. You invalidated your cause by speaking about it.
wrong. god you are bad at this game.
You, in a three person corp, under no alliance, (I'll assume you're hiding on an alt, otherwise you wouldn't[hopefully] have the blatant ignorance of speaking of sovereignty issues) are literally saying "I didn't read this, but if it makes a sizable portion of the NC disagree it must be good, therefore I approve." I called you on it. Are you making a spectacle out of your incompetence on purpose, or is it a byproduct of the aforementioned incompetence?
Back on topic: If Pandemic Legion wants to speak about sovereign space related issues, let me point you to them losing NOL-M9 to TEST. Just showing for those out of the loop that PL either legitimately doesn't care about sovereignty, and thus shouldn't be speaking of sovereign space module related issues, or they are literally the worst at eve now that BoB has died, again. (Don't give me that RaidenDOT crap, you're 4 months old.)
But let's just pretend for a minute that Pandemic Legion isn't bad at everything except roughly 30% of their ship fittings. PL, fellow gamers, I want you to fight me, and I want to fight you. Not honorably on the field of battle, lining up our ships and nobly choosing targets for duels, I want you to start some ****, and I want to challenge your ****. You are saying that you want us to be slower in our owned space, and we should filter through a tunnel for you every other jump. Security, both making it and having it depending on what you're doing, is an element of being an alliance with space. What you're begging for here is gatecamping, ganking industrials, and making it so it takes longer to intercept you when you invade someone's space and kill their ratters and newbies. You, under the current system, do not have enough T1 industrial and frigate kills, and get chased out too fast when a real fight comes knocking. Can't get a Badger kill because he was scouting in a rookie ship? No problem, at least you get the Ibis and his pod, you got your kills. Everything you have said here says to me *you* want safer pvp for you. *You* want it to take longer to stop you. *You* want more easy, meaningless, mostly non-combatant targets, because *you* aren't doing well enough on your own.
You say we shouldn't be safe in our space, because it's 0.0. I say you shouldn't be safer in our 0.0 because of an administrative decision. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Now you will see how it works to you:
You want enemy sovereign space to be safer for yourselves PL, and for that I attest you are deep-pocketed cowards.
Of course herein lies the point where someone out here goes "U mad?" To those I say: If I don't address your statements, then people who know as little about successfully holding space as you do might think you're right, and we can't afford that mistake.
Some statistics (Not giving locations, you can dotlan the rest): We have 68 systems. We have 28 outposts. Goonwaffe owns 13 jumpbridge links, some systems have more than one.
Do we not use gates? It seems that we'd not own and use as much space as we do if we didn't.=^D
You try to make the NC look bad through speculation, we successfully make you look bad through fact. :dealwizit:
(Out of characters, continuing in next post.
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:28:00 -
[1968]
Originally by: JC Anderson
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: stonewall ironwill This is possibly the best change CCP has ever done.
Changes in game mechanics and the fact it is in fact a sandbox because all of eve with the exception of that ******ed blue blob (NC) is why this game is still interesting after all this time and all the other MMOs you have are collecting dust.
This change will hopefully make massive blue blocks a thing of the past since people that want to pvp donÆt want to spend all their time jumping gates. PVPers will leave massive blue blobs for smaller pvp orientated alliances, and a bunch of ratting care bears and miners will soon get crushed by pvp vets much like we are seeing happen to the NC atm.
Null sec is for pvp!!! Anyone complaining about it not being safe out in null sec or there is too much risk biomass yourself now start over in empire againà.try to learn something this time.
Good job on this one CCP
You've never seen a blob I'm sure. You think 25 people is a blob. No that wont change, you'll still be whining and crying because you don't have enough friends to take on more than a solo miner in an osprey. Most "blobs" are used in sov warfare, something you'll never see", and are group of 100 or more. But you say you're looking forward to the NC going down because there wont be blue blocks, wrongo. It will still be a blue bloc, Whitenoise and DRF are the ones trying to take NC space, they want to bot in drone space, and exploit the tech moons, double this for their RMT empire. Then the rmters and botters will control most of null sec. But they wont blob you anymore I guess, unless 5 supers is a blob, but thats ok, you dont mind supers you just dont like the nc.
Well even 100 or so is a pretty conservative estimate now days.
Well I was talking about normal roams into hostile alliance space 50-100 people is average. For major fights over territory you're talking 3-500 on each side. And ccp says there isn't enough fighting in null.
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Tango Zulu
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:29:00 -
[1969]
Now I have no problem with altering the nature of JBs, but not in such a haphazard manner, and on short notice. I think moving them to planets is ok, but I personally think JBs in their current sense are fine. What I'd like to see is a shift of responsibility to the player from the logistics in this way: Take 5-10% off every non-industrial's base cargohold, and make it into a fuel bay that's 10-30% of the the base. It only holds LO3 and JBs don't hold any. You don't bring enough, or forget, or have no friends, tough, you're walking all the way rather than half or three-fourths the way home. Broke newbies learn the hard way early, but ozone is cheap and you won't be flying big things that eat more immediately.
If the purpose is to make us have a harder time pulling resources from highsec, you will have to make it so we *want* to not be dependent on highsec. We need better quality ores for mining, a more even distribution of moons, and anything else that would make acquiring something locally cheaper than Jita+transport markup.
If this nerf does happen (and I support changes, but not nerfs), it needs to happen after you've consulted your largely sov-knowledgeable CSM and weigh your decision (remember, our chairman (MY CEO) supports this, but agrees it should wait until winter), then enter it into the 0.0 reform package.
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Hellkyte
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 01:40:00 -
[1970]
This Just IN at 10!
Null sec has been completely ruined, vast majority of null sec threatens to quit/leave null sec
This just in at 11!
Large quantities of small alliances line up to sieze sov and recreate a better null sec!
This just in at 12!
Majority of null sec that threatened to quit/leave are full of crap, and no one leaves!
------------
Seriously, your biggest threat is something that a large majority of EvE wants. Leave null sec, there are plenty that would take your place.
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Sovox
Amarr Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:01:00 -
[1971]
Edited by: Sovox on 13/05/2011 02:05:01 Spot On posts Tango Zulu..
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Sovox
Amarr Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 02:04:00 -
[1972]
Edited by: Sovox on 13/05/2011 02:05:28
double post fail
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 02:10:00 -
[1973]
Originally by: Tango Zulu Now I have no problem with altering the nature of JBs, but not in such a haphazard manner, and on short notice. I think moving them to planets is ok, but I personally think JBs in their current sense are fine. What I'd like to see is a shift of responsibility to the player from the logistics in this way: Take 5-10% off every non-industrial's base cargohold, and make it into a fuel bay that's 10-30% of the the base. It only holds LO3 and JBs don't hold any. You don't bring enough, or forget, or have no friends, tough, you're walking all the way rather than half or three-fourths the way home. Broke newbies learn the hard way early, but ozone is cheap and you won't be flying big things that eat more immediately.
If the purpose is to make us have a harder time pulling resources from highsec, you will have to make it so we *want* to not be dependent on highsec. We need better quality ores for mining, a more even distribution of moons, and anything else that would make acquiring something locally cheaper than Jita+transport markup.
If this nerf does happen (and I support changes, but not nerfs), it needs to happen after you've consulted your largely sov-knowledgeable CSM and weigh your decision (remember, our chairman (MY CEO) supports this, but agrees it should wait until winter), then enter it into the 0.0 reform package.
Adapt or die. There are no goons.
Goodbye. Brasts |
Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:30:00 -
[1974]
Originally by: Tango Zulu Now I have no problem with altering the nature of JBs, but not in such a haphazard manner, and on short notice. I think moving them to planets is ok, but I personally think JBs in their current sense are fine. What I'd like to see is a shift of responsibility to the player from the logistics in this way: Take 5-10% off every non-industrial's base cargohold, and make it into a fuel bay that's 10-30% of the the base. It only holds LO3 and JBs don't hold any. You don't bring enough, or forget, or have no friends, tough, you're walking all the way rather than half or three-fourths the way home. Broke newbies learn the hard way early, but ozone is cheap and you won't be flying big things that eat more immediately.
If the purpose is to make us have a harder time pulling resources from highsec, you will have to make it so we *want* to not be dependent on highsec. We need better quality ores for mining, a more even distribution of moons, and anything else that would make acquiring something locally cheaper than Jita+transport markup.
If this nerf does happen (and I support changes, but not nerfs), it needs to happen after you've consulted your largely sov-knowledgeable CSM and weigh your decision (remember, our chairman (MY CEO) supports this, but agrees it should wait until winter), then enter it into the 0.0 reform package.
more NC whine posts
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Megy Feel
V.L.A.S.T. V.L.A.S.T
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:37:00 -
[1975]
Originally by: Sirus Prime This is getting quite drawn out. Here's the general synopsis for anyone just getting here: 1: Everyone who isn't NC is happy that they are destroying our infrastructure and our isk making abilities. 2: Everyone in the NC is ****ed that CCP is still after us for destroying BoB/IT (the ones they gave the supercap BPO's to, and yes, some of us actually know about that *gasp*)
But ya, that's pretty much what you've missed, oh and the constant back and forth ***ching from one side to the other.
BTW: F**K THIS BULLS***
Jesus ****ing christ, oh my god, what the ****?
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 02:37:00 -
[1976]
Edited by: Ben Derindar on 13/05/2011 02:44:17
Originally by: Imigo Montoya What I AM talking about is developers trying to dictate exactly how players decide to interact with each other. This game is full of game mechanics that encourage players to interact with each other, whether that interaction is hostile or supportive. That's what makes EVE fantastic - it's a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG, and that's the way it should be.
The way I see it is that it's the dev's role to encourage player interaction, but not to dictate how those players interact. When devs start dictating how players should interact, it becomes less "emergent sandbox" and more "theme park ride".
Ah, I see now, sorry for the misunderstanding. So what you're actually saying is that CCP shouldn't have the right to change their own game as they see fit.
Originally by: EULA CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you.
Seems that in this instance, it doesn't matter how you see it. vOv
Originally by: Imigo Montoya Funny thing is, if you don't like the mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land, here are your options:
[ ] adapt [ ] die
Oh don't worry about me, I'm sure I'll adapt to these changes just fine. How about you?
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Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 02:39:00 -
[1977]
Originally by: Ben Derindar
[ ] adapt [ ] die
QFT.
If CCP never changed anything in EVE, we'd still have torp launching nano rifters and 40km/s multi MWD ships. You do have a sandbox, but it's refereed by CCP.
I'm taking up a collection on Your Stuffs if you can't deal with it.
While we're at it... CCP please to bring rats back on hisec gates? TIA.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 02:59:00 -
[1978]
Originally by: Ben Derindar
Originally by: Imigo Montoya What I AM talking about is developers trying to dictate exactly how players decide to interact with each other. This game is full of game mechanics that encourage players to interact with each other, whether that interaction is hostile or supportive. That's what makes EVE fantastic - it's a Massively Multiplayer Online RPG, and that's the way it should be.
The way I see it is that it's the dev's role to encourage player interaction, but not to dictate how those players interact. When devs start dictating how players should interact, it becomes less "emergent sandbox" and more "theme park ride".
Ah, I see now, sorry for the misunderstanding. So what you're actually saying is that CCP shouldn't have the right to change their own game as they see fit.
Still not quite what I was saying. Seeing as you didn't quite get this part I'll happily ignore the rest of your post which is approaching a strawman argument.
Sure, CCP have every right to change the game as they fit. If they want to change it into a theme park ride that's their business. If they want to make every ship a fluffy bunny that shoots rainbows they can do that too. Just because you can (and have every right to) doesn't make it a good idea.
What I am saying (try and quote me on this, not your misunderstanding) is that EVE is good because it is an emergent sandbox. Making changes that will make the game more of a theme park because you don't like what emerges is a bad idea.
Having said that, if CCP promote this game as an emergent sandbox, and then change it into a theme park (because they don't like what emerges in the sandbox), then that's false advertising.
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Rens 911 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:17:00 -
[1979]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya What I am saying (try and quote me on this, not your misunderstanding) is that EVE is good because it is an emergent sandbox. Making changes that will make the game more of a theme park because you don't like what emerges is a bad idea.
Damn CCP for altering the sandbox so that I can't make a theme park out of the sandbox! _____
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:18:00 -
[1980]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya Having said that, if CCP promote this game as an emergent sandbox, and then change it into a theme park (because they don't like what emerges in the sandbox), then that's false advertising.
These changes move it further away from a theme park. I can't fathom how you don't see this. Anyways, proceed with your straw-man argument...
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:19:00 -
[1981]
Originally by: Tango Zulu
But let's just pretend for a minute that Pandemic Legion isn't bad at everything except roughly 30% of their ship fittings.
Ok, but while we're pretending, we'll have to also pretend you haven't lost every single fight you've ever been in against us.
But lets do carry on:
Originally by: Tango Zulu PL, fellow gamers, I want you to fight me, and I want to fight you. Not honorably on the field of battle, lining up our ships and nobly choosing targets for duels, I want you to start some ****, and I want to challenge your ****. You are saying that you want us to be slower in our owned space, and we should filter through a tunnel for you every other jump. Security, both making it and having it depending on what you're doing, is an element of being an alliance with space. What you're begging for here is gatecamping, ganking industrials, and making it so it takes longer to intercept you when you invade someone's space and kill their ratters and newbies. You, under the current system, do not have enough T1 industrial and frigate kills, and get chased out too fast when a real fight comes knocking. Can't get a Badger kill because he was scouting in a rookie ship? No problem, at least you get the Ibis and his pod, you got your kills. Everything you have said here says to me *you* want safer pvp for you. *You* want it to take longer to stop you. *You* want more easy, meaningless, mostly non-combatant targets, because *you* aren't doing well enough on your own.
You say we shouldn't be safe in our space, because it's 0.0. I say you shouldn't be safer in our 0.0 because of an administrative decision. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Now you will see how it works to you:
You want enemy sovereign space to be safer for yourselves PL, and for that I attest you are deep-pocketed cowards.
Of course herein lies the point where someone out here goes "U mad?" To those I say: If I don't address your statements, then people who know as little about successfully holding space as you do might think you're right, and we can't afford that mistake.
Just a few points of clarification:
1) you hold your space not because you took it, but because you were given it 2) you defend that space by setting everything within 1/2 of the game blue 3) Ujelly? 4) At first I was all "Man, if the NC is this ****ed about it there's no way it can be bad for the .....SWEET JESUS LOOK HOW MAD GOONS ARE.
I mean seriously boss, if you have only 13 bridges, and only a few have more than one per system, whats the problem?
Doesn't sound like this should inconvenience you at all.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:30:00 -
[1982]
Originally by: Prez21
Calm down, you seem awfully mad at the minute. Lets be honest your alliance shouldnt really hold 0.0 sov, you are quite bad, i know its not your fault but thats how it is. Jump bridges shouldnt exist, they make the game far to easy and i know eve isnt meant to be a job but it is meant to be a very harsh place to live and thats how it made its reputation. Im just glad ccp is finally taking steps to turning EVE back into the great game it once was but these changes still arent enough.
Yes supercaps are ruining the game and need a massive change and i know how logistics will now become impossible because before jump bridges 0.0 alliances never existed, alliances like ASCN never had a fully stocked market that would put any of todays 0.0 alliances to shame, alliances back in the day all lived on the edge of 0.0 space only dare treading into the vast unknown on extreme rare occasions
Come on people lets be honest, the only people against this change are people who dont want to work for there share of 0.0, this isnt nc vs everyone else ( even though most of the nc are the ones crying and wanting to play on easy made, shock horror) its simply the people who want all the rewards of 0.0 without a single risk.
You paid someone 600 billion isk TO Do the fighting FOR YOU !!!
Wheres the risk in running behind PL and camping gates all day in bombers.
BTW what's up with leaving RED. Overlord ? hmm wonder if it had anything to do with the RMT banning of the .. uhhmmm CEO
LOL thanks .. that gave me a huge smile.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:32:00 -
[1983]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Imigo Montoya Having said that, if CCP promote this game as an emergent sandbox, and then change it into a theme park (because they don't like what emerges in the sandbox), then that's false advertising.
These changes move it further away from a theme park. I can't fathom how you don't see this. Anyways, proceed with your straw-man argument...
Originally by: Ohh Yeah Or CCP wants to see 0.0 transition backwards to those days when survival revolved around clustered, SMALL groups of people working closely together. I hate to break it to you but I'm pretty sure CCP is sick of mega-NAP-train-happy-go-fun-land and wants to watch the universe burn. Really.
Originally by: Imigo Montoya When you start saying "We don't want people playing in the sandbox the way they want to, we want them playing the way way we want them to", you start throwing the baby out with the bathwater. With that simple statement you're making it a game designer driven game, not a player driven game.
In the full context of what I was saying - if CCP are doing this because they don't like how people play in the sandbox, then it is making it less of a sandbox. Reading and discussing in context FTW.
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:32:00 -
[1984]
Originally by: BOB DaBui1der
Originally by: Vhaine Vhindiscar CCP do you even play this game anymore?
Please, gtfo of 0.0. You don't know what you're doing. You people destroy everything you touch.
of course they play the game, that's why they are making a MUCH needed change
~those who fail to adapt become a victim of evolution~
you don't get how funny that is do you.... ok here ... check you employment history.
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Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:32:00 -
[1985]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Tango Zulu
But let's just pretend for a minute that Pandemic Legion isn't bad at everything except roughly 30% of their ship fittings.
Ok, but while we're pretending, we'll have to also pretend you haven't lost every single fight you've ever been in against us.
But lets do carry on:
Originally by: Tango Zulu PL, fellow gamers, I want you to fight me, and I want to fight you. Not honorably on the field of battle, lining up our ships and nobly choosing targets for duels, I want you to start some ****, and I want to challenge your ****. You are saying that you want us to be slower in our owned space, and we should filter through a tunnel for you every other jump. Security, both making it and having it depending on what you're doing, is an element of being an alliance with space. What you're begging for here is gatecamping, ganking industrials, and making it so it takes longer to intercept you when you invade someone's space and kill their ratters and newbies. You, under the current system, do not have enough T1 industrial and frigate kills, and get chased out too fast when a real fight comes knocking. Can't get a Badger kill because he was scouting in a rookie ship? No problem, at least you get the Ibis and his pod, you got your kills. Everything you have said here says to me *you* want safer pvp for you. *You* want it to take longer to stop you. *You* want more easy, meaningless, mostly non-combatant targets, because *you* aren't doing well enough on your own.
You say we shouldn't be safe in our space, because it's 0.0. I say you shouldn't be safer in our 0.0 because of an administrative decision. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Now you will see how it works to you:
You want enemy sovereign space to be safer for yourselves PL, and for that I attest you are deep-pocketed cowards.
Of course herein lies the point where someone out here goes "U mad?" To those I say: If I don't address your statements, then people who know as little about successfully holding space as you do might think you're right, and we can't afford that mistake.
Just a few points of clarification:
1) you hold your space not because you took it, but because you were given it 2) you defend that space by setting everything within 1/2 of the game blue 3) Ujelly? 4) At first I was all "Man, if the NC is this ****ed about it there's no way it can be bad for the .....SWEET JESUS LOOK HOW MAD GOONS ARE.
I mean seriously boss, if you have only 13 bridges, and only a few have more than one per system, whats the problem?
Doesn't sound like this should inconvenience you at all.
The DC doesn't have ****loads of tech moons or legions of botters shoving isk at the alliance coffers. We have a few moons that go to sov costs like jump bridges, the whole, 1 bridge per system now requires more systems to be upgraded, if you want to keep pretty much the same routing, that means double the systems, double the sov costs. Which is ****.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:35:00 -
[1986]
E .+ ` ' / +. F Your tears fuel me!
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:37:00 -
[1987]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: davet517
Originally by: Bagehi
Because of the timing of these changes. They are nerfs to one thing after another that is being used to defend against an invasion by the DRF and PL. If CCP were to nerf scarriers or titans or T3 PVP abilities or titan bridges or drone mineral drops, no one would be surprised if DRF or PL started crying.
You have failed to grasp CCPs diabolical plan. By buffing your space and nerfing the Russian's space, they have suckered the ebil RMTers into attacking Mitten's space, causing him to bring his high-powered lawyers and licensed private investigators to bear. If everything goes according to plan, the RMTers will be crushed at little or no cost to CCP.
Ahh man ... you give far to much credit to CCP .... keep in mind these are the people who can't seem to fix the overview bug that plagues us all ... ya i saw yall shooting one of your own a bit back too ....
We do this coz we are bored sometimes.. and for fun.. 100ppl laughing well worth reimbursemnt of a bs stuff like that helps get more ppl in fleet.
Of course .. you are right ... YEAH BUGS!!
is that better?
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Hatsumi Kobayashi
Rens 911 GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:38:00 -
[1988]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya In the full context of what I was saying - if CCP are doing this because they don't like how people play in the sandbox, then it is making it less of a sandbox. Reading and discussing in context FTW.
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Damn CCP for altering the sandbox so that I can't make a theme park out of the sandbox!
_____
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Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar Appetite 4 Destruction
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:41:00 -
[1989]
Originally by: JC Anderson
Originally by: Flesh Slurper
Originally by: Panem EtCircenses Also, just remove local.
Local is stupid game feature
AMEN!
+1 --- In Null and Low.
yes pls
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:48:00 -
[1990]
Originally by: Cellistara
The DC doesn't have ****loads of tech moons or legions of botters shoving isk at the alliance coffers.
Ah, excuse me? I'm pretty sure if you ask DBRB or any of other goons they will gladly teach you about the bots they have running, so you can probably drop this line. I believe the program is called innerspace, ask around, maybe you're new.
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:48:00 -
[1991]
Originally by: Tango Zulu Now I have no problem with altering the nature of JBs, but not in such a haphazard manner, and on short notice. I think moving them to planets is ok, but I personally think JBs in their current sense are fine. What I'd like to see is a shift of responsibility to the player from the logistics in this way: Take 5-10% off every non-industrial's base cargohold, and make it into a fuel bay that's 10-30% of the the base. It only holds LO3 and JBs don't hold any. You don't bring enough, or forget, or have no friends, tough, you're walking all the way rather than half or three-fourths the way home. Broke newbies learn the hard way early, but ozone is cheap and you won't be flying big things that eat more immediately.
If the purpose is to make us have a harder time pulling resources from highsec, you will have to make it so we *want* to not be dependent on highsec. We need better quality ores for mining, a more even distribution of moons, and anything else that would make acquiring something locally cheaper than Jita+transport markup.
If this nerf does happen (and I support changes, but not nerfs), it needs to happen after you've consulted your largely sov-knowledgeable CSM and weigh your decision (remember, our chairman (MY CEO) supports this, but agrees it should wait until winter), then enter it into the 0.0 reform package.
Well said ... you want to see PL tears .. nerf the T3 and make them unable to use Covert mods.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 03:50:00 -
[1992]
Originally by: Marlona Sky E .+ ` ' / +. F Your tears fuel me!
Your overused ASCII boars me ... undock for gods sake.
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Feyleaf
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:52:00 -
[1993]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky E .+ ` ' / +. F Your tears fuel me!
Your overused ASCII boars me ... undock for gods sake.
I like it
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 03:56:00 -
[1994]
Originally by: Feyleaf
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky E .+ ` ' / +. F Your tears fuel me!
Your overused ASCII boars me ... undock for gods sake.
I like it
Station spinning can be nice.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.13 04:03:00 -
[1995]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cellistara
The DC doesn't have ****loads of tech moons or legions of botters shoving isk at the alliance coffers.
Ah, excuse me? I'm pretty sure if you ask DBRB or any of other goons they will gladly teach you about the bots they have running, so you can probably drop this line. I believe the program is called innerspace, ask around, maybe you're new.
Yeah if they have bots they're certainly not giving that isk to their alliance. And if you have questions about the Cluster****s use of their money just google the balance sheets, its all there.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 04:08:00 -
[1996]
Edited by: Grath Telkin on 13/05/2011 04:12:55
Originally by: Phigmeta
Well said ... you want to see PL tears .. nerf the T3 and make them unable to use Covert mods.
None of us use covert t3s, why would that upset us? And you can nerf t3's all you want, we'd just use something else, like always, or is that a hard concept for you to grasp?
Originally by: Cellistara
Yeah if they have bots they're certainly not giving that isk to their alliance.
No, they aren't giving it to the alliance are they. So one might wonder where that isk DOES go. Oh DBRB, the wicked web we weave when we need that extra food money.
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Cynthia Ysolde
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 04:10:00 -
[1997]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cellistara
The DC doesn't have ****loads of tech moons or legions of botters shoving isk at the alliance coffers.
Ah, excuse me? I'm pretty sure if you ask DBRB or any of other goons they will gladly teach you about the bots they have running, so you can probably drop this line. I believe the program is called innerspace, ask around, maybe you're new.
Yeah if they have bots they're certainly not giving that isk to their alliance. And if you have questions about the Cluster****s use of their money just google the balance sheets, its all there.
bro we're just better than you get used to it and just go back to farmville LOL Brasts |
Cellistara
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 04:31:00 -
[1998]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cellistara
The DC doesn't have ****loads of tech moons or legions of botters shoving isk at the alliance coffers.
Ah, excuse me? I'm pretty sure if you ask DBRB or any of other goons they will gladly teach you about the bots they have running, so you can probably drop this line. I believe the program is called innerspace, ask around, maybe you're new.
Yeah if they have bots they're certainly not giving that isk to their alliance. And if you have questions about the Cluster****s use of their money just google the balance sheets, its all there.
bro we're just better than you get used to it and just go back to farmville LOL
Getting paid 600 bil and getting free supers from know botter farmers and rmters and being completely unable to hold sov makes you better. Okie dokie. Ill say hi when Im spinning around in NOL
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Tanza Stone
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Posted - 2011.05.13 04:44:00 -
[1999]
Just some final words from my and my other 7 accounts. Dev's need to get in and play the game. Jumpbridges are "easy" --- esp with cloaked red bombers in system -- yeah, I never have to worry about my hauler trying to load the bridge - or other ships randomly getting pounded. You can't fix lag so you change the game to make it look like the changes are good for the player base, when we all know the real reasons. After 7 years of playing - guess it's time to move on.
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Giacomo Carissimi
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 04:44:00 -
[2000]
way to ruin 0.0 you idiots. this will break your game and no one will want to play seeing as there will be more opportunity for pvp in an area of space specifically geared towards pvp. ccp is a scrub company who don't understand what makes their game fun: security.
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Grath Telkin
Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 05:51:00 -
[2001]
Originally by: Tanza Stone Just some final words from my and my other 7 accounts.
This is me, pulling your card:
I think your a liar, and you don't have 7 accounts, can you make me look foolish and prove that you have 7 accounts?
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 05:57:00 -
[2002]
Originally by: Cynthia Ysolde
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Cellistara
The DC doesn't have ****loads of tech moons or legions of botters shoving isk at the alliance coffers.
Ah, excuse me? I'm pretty sure if you ask DBRB or any of other goons they will gladly teach you about the bots they have running, so you can probably drop this line. I believe the program is called innerspace, ask around, maybe you're new.
Yeah if they have bots they're certainly not giving that isk to their alliance. And if you have questions about the Cluster****s use of their money just google the balance sheets, its all there.
bro we're just better than you get used to it and just go back to farmville LOL
Its minecraft thankyou...
oh and thanks for putting that tower there .. i was wondering what i would use all this ammo for....
...guess we will soon see if you actually show up for a fight or just roam around hoping for an easy kill the entire time.
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Phigmeta
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 06:00:00 -
[2003]
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Tanza Stone Just some final words from my and my other 7 accounts.
This is me, pulling your card:
I think your a liar, and you don't have 7 accounts, can you make me look foolish and prove that you have 7 accounts?
why would anyone do for you what you yourself have already done?
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Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 06:22:00 -
[2004]
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi
Originally by: Imigo Montoya In the full context of what I was saying - if CCP are doing this because they don't like how people play in the sandbox, then it is making it less of a sandbox. Reading and discussing in context FTW.
Originally by: Hatsumi Kobayashi Damn CCP for altering the sandbox so that I can't make a theme park out of the sandbox!
y herro dear, hatsurmi
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Sixtina KL
The Shoop Group
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Posted - 2011.05.13 06:24:00 -
[2005]
Originally by: Giacomo Carissimi way to ruin 0.0 you idiots. this will break your game and no one will want to play seeing as there will be more opportunity for pvp in an area of space specifically geared towards pvp. ccp is a scrub company who don't understand what makes their game fun: security.
Can I have your stuff? __________________________________
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ArmyOfMe
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
|
Posted - 2011.05.13 06:45:00 -
[2006]
to put a old eve quote to good use
Quote: Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL
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stonewall ironwill
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Posted - 2011.05.13 06:51:00 -
[2007]
You've never seen a blob I'm sure. You think 25 people is a blob. No that wont change, you'll still be whining and crying because you don't have enough friends to take on more than a solo miner in an osprey. Most "blobs" are used in sov warfare, something you'll never see", and are group of 100 or more. But you say you're looking forward to the NC going down because there wont be blue blocks, wrongo. It will still be a blue bloc, Whitenoise and DRF are the ones trying to take NC space, they want to bot in drone space, and exploit the tech moons, double this for their RMT empire. Then the rmters and botters will control most of null sec. But they wont blob you anymore I guess, unless 5 supers is a blob, but thats ok, you dont mind supers you just dont like the nc.
im the one the has been around and fought in all of the delve invashions with the 1300+ locals counts and you with all of 30 kills has no place to say enything you test lacky.and 4 years ago without all the blue blocks and JBs things where alot more fun.
go back to WoW kthnxbye |
Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.13 07:24:00 -
[2008]
Originally by: stonewall ironwill
You've never seen a blob I'm sure. You think 25 people is a blob. No that wont change, you'll still be whining and crying because you don't have enough friends to take on more than a solo miner in an osprey. Most "blobs" are used in sov warfare, something you'll never see", and are group of 100 or more. But you say you're looking forward to the NC going down because there wont be blue blocks, wrongo. It will still be a blue bloc, Whitenoise and DRF are the ones trying to take NC space, they want to bot in drone space, and exploit the tech moons, double this for their RMT empire. Then the rmters and botters will control most of null sec. But they wont blob you anymore I guess, unless 5 supers is a blob, but thats ok, you dont mind supers you just dont like the nc.
im the one the has been around and fought in all of the delve invashions with the 1300+ locals counts and you with all of 30 kills has no place to say enything you test lacky.and 4 years ago without all the blue blocks and JBs things where alot more fun.
go back to WoW kthnxbye
I tend to stick to doing industry and doing HD, you'll see the few things on my KB are towers and mods, mostly because if a gang sees we're coming they run away and cry about how we're blobbing them, even if they have 10 and we only bring 15. All reds do is cry. All they're good at really, other than trying to gank indys and miners.
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The Ringer
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.13 07:33:00 -
[2009]
Once upon a Jump Bridge there lived a happy little pilot named QQ. QQ enjoyed his shortcuts thru vast distances of space that only him and his blue butt buddys could take. Then one day God (CCP) decided he didn't want QQ and his buddy's to have such an advantage and decided he would make QQ have to buy twice as many towers and use stargates like other pilots. QQ was never the same since.
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Saithe
Caldari FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.13 07:35:00 -
[2010]
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: stonewall ironwill
Random crap here.
I tend to stick to doing industry and doing HD, you'll see the few things on my KB are towers and mods, mostly because if a gang sees we're coming they run away and cry about how we're blobbing them, even if they have 10 and we only bring 15. All reds do is cry. All they're good at really, other than trying to gank indys and miners.
First of all, allow me to clarify: I have bolded the important parts. 1) Originally by: Cellistara Getting paid 600 bil and getting free supers from know botter farmers and rmters and being completely unable to hold sov makes you better. Okie dokie. Ill say hi when Im spinning around in NOL
Sounds a bit contradictory. You stick to industry and HD (I assume this is Herpdy Derpty)
Now, if you allow me a moment, I would like to direct everyone's attention to Cellistara's Wonderful Killboard Stats. I usually abstain from using Battleclinic due to its known 'false posts' past. However I digress.
According to BC, you have an estimated SP Count of 11mil. I would say this is fairly accurate due to your spouting off of the mouth on a subject you are clearly not knowledgeable with.
I can also assume one of the two following statements are true: 1) You read the forums way too much and have diarrhea of the mouth or 2) You are posting with an alt because you are too afraid to post with your main.
So please, go back to your, whatever it is you do; because quite frankly, these changes are a long time coming. I approve.
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Cellistara
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Posted - 2011.05.13 08:05:00 -
[2011]
Originally by: Saithe Edited by: Saithe on 13/05/2011 07:36:21
Originally by: Cellistara
Originally by: stonewall ironwill
Random crap here.
I tend to stick to doing industry and doing HD, you'll see the few things on my KB are towers and mods, mostly because if a gang sees we're coming they run away and cry about how we're blobbing them, even if they have 10 and we only bring 15. All reds do is cry. All they're good at really, other than trying to gank indys and miners.
First of all, allow me to clarify: I have bolded the important parts. 1) Originally by: Cellistara Getting paid 600 bil and getting free supers from know botter farmers and rmters and being completely unable to hold sov makes you better. Okie dokie. Ill say hi when Im spinning around in NOL
Sounds a bit contradictory. You stick to industry and HD (I assume this is Herpdy Derpty); yet claim to 'roam NOL'
Now, if you allow me a moment, I would like to direct everyone's attention to Cellistara's Wonderful Killboard Stats. I usually abstain from using Battleclinic due to its known 'false posts' past. However I digress.
According to BC, you have an estimated SP Count of 11mil. I would say this is fairly accurate due to your spouting off of the mouth on a subject you are clearly not knowledgeable with.
I can also assume one of the two following statements are true: 1) You read the forums way too much and have diarrhea of the mouth or 2) You are posting with an alt because you are too afraid to post with your main.
So please, go back to your, whatever it is you do; because quite frankly, these changes are a long time coming. I approve.
Yes I tend to stay in my home region and do HD or Home Defense. You know, the thing that keeps our space somewhat safe. But I do occasionally go on roams and ops. Oh and that KB is missing the 2.5 bil rattlesnake I lost to a frigate gang in VPLL. Yeah I R Nub, but it seems I know a helluva lot more about life in null than most of you bitter vets.
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Dray
Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2011.05.13 08:10:00 -
[2012]
After the changes there will still be plenty of people in 0.0, though if this thread is anything to go by they'll be stuck there because they don't know the way to Jita without a jb network.
Joking aside there was people in 0.0 long before jb's and they'll still be there after this nerf, I still think a complete removal is the only real answer coupled with a heavy handed super cap nerf.
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Saithe
Caldari FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.13 08:18:00 -
[2013]
Edited by: Saithe on 13/05/2011 08:19:25
Originally by: Cellistara Random rubbish comments
Actually, I started the game off out in XZH, with -Y-. I also did a stint with some scrub alliance; we actually were the first to claim one of the new drone regions. From there, I did some time in YZ-LQL and Serpentis Prime. I have spent about 3 years in lowsec, with access to 0.0 jump bridge networks. After my long stint with piracy, I joined AAA (which I am not proud to admit) to fly with a friend of mine. Let me tell you; that jump bridge network was horrendous. 7 Jump Bridges in a single system all going to different places; and each one of those systems having like 4 more Jump Bridges to other places as well.
So, in conclusion to this long winded and detailed explanation; I am glad these changes are finally being implemented. It will give people a reason to log titans on more often; make the logistics of trans-versing jump bridge networks more hassle-free; And it will force people to actually use fuel to jump their capitals.
Originally by: Cellistara Oh and that KB is missing the 2.5 bil rattlesnake I lost to a frigate gang in VPLL.
Sounds like you really know what you're doing. Keep on keepin' on.
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Jugulator Boloskarl
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Posted - 2011.05.13 10:04:00 -
[2014]
All I see is a bunch of bleeding heart bears crying over having to jump through a nasty stargate and the NC desparately trying to validate there massive blue list by trying to claim that the changes will promote more incentive to nap up.
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Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Stimulus Rote Kapelle
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Posted - 2011.05.13 10:23:00 -
[2015]
NC u mad? U mad NC? U mad? You seem mad.
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Murauke
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:03:00 -
[2016]
Originally by: Natalia Kovac NC u mad? U mad NC? U mad? You seem mad.
Nope not really - I think its a good move personally - a completely removal of JBs would not have impressed a lot of people no matter how you play the game. This is a better solution and balances up completely mind numbing tasks and joyment. I do not believe there are many in the NC that is against this nerf - i think more poeple are against the anomoly nerf becuase the end game of owning your own systems requires numbers and if space is sh!te then how are you to sustain yourself?
I'm overall, happy - I was more digusted with the anomolly nerf becuase in one aspect CCP without really directly saying it - Dominion was a great patch for players but a bad one for CCP becuase of the amount ISK injected in the game.
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ssgt slaughter
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:22:00 -
[2017]
i think the one thing ccp fallout has missed is there are ready such pockets where jumpbridges have to leave the route from one network to another and there are many of them. these pockets very seldomly see traffic if ever so what do you think is going to change. your going to force pvp in null sec? well how about starting with a game mechanic where a cloak ship automatically uncloaks every half an hour hmmmmmmmm. that would force some pvp huh these ashats who sit in systems for days on end and never uncloak and a lot of tiems they come to the keyboard from thioer alt only to smack in local. what a bunch of bull**** that is and ccp says is part of the game mechanics to sit cloaked afk in a system for days.
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lance goodtrusts
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:27:00 -
[2018]
oh on a much more joyful note this nerf will be a huge death blow to the nc. the defensvie bridge network they have accross the front is now history its been there for a few years now . awesome lets see mh come help razor now on a whim. ccp fallout has done his own little bit to divide and conquer the nc awesome job on that regard. i guess ccp is tired of the nc smack talkers in local as much as the rest of us.
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Klausan
GK inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 11:55:00 -
[2019]
I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.
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MrCaptAwsm
Ghosts of Ragnarok Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.13 12:02:00 -
[2020]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler Question: Why is CCP making these changes? Answer: To much ISK in game.
Question: Why is there to much ISK in game? Answer: Because of Bots and RMT.
Question: Why does DRF have so many super capitals? Answer: Botted ISK.
Question: Why is DRF outpeforming the NC Answer: Botted ISK to pay PL and replace losses without issue.
Question: Why is DRF leaving the South to take over the North? Answer: Because there bot accounts are being banned and they want the tech moons to make income.
Everyone else living in Null Sec knows this, the only people who seem to be ignoring the effects of ill gotten ISK is CCP. CCP then makes changes because there is to much ISK and to many capitals in null sec so they make changes affecting all players rather than dealing solely with the players who have to much ISK.
Now you're gonna say this is tears, its not, its just a game. Its pointing out that without the ill gotten gains of botting the DRF wouldn't have been able to pay PL to fight for them and wouldn't be able to field supercapital blobs at will.
I know others are also guilty of botting and RMT so its not all on DRF's shoulders but lets face facts for a moment.
death2rmt
free our JBs
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Geralden
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Posted - 2011.05.13 12:24:00 -
[2021]
Now we just need to get rid of all supercapitals and T3 ships from the game. They give unfair advantages and are not in touch with the other ships, so because it's more easy to remove than rebalance they should be deleted from the game.
Since 95% of supers have been build by RMT'ers, supers should be deleted without any form of compensation. CSAA's will still be there, and will cost 500% more to upkeep, since there will be a big influx of players needing regular capital ships beeing build, after the death of all supers.
T3 ships are too powerfull compared to their sig radius, so damage migration is not in balance with any other ships in the game. They should be compensated, so there will be 2 racial HACs in your hangar instead of the racial t3 version.
Now, we're closer to a more open PVP enviroment.
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davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 12:28:00 -
[2022]
Edited by: davet517 on 13/05/2011 12:29:23
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Back on topic: If Pandemic Legion wants to speak about sovereign space related issues, let me point you to them losing NOL-M9 to TEST. Just showing for those out of the loop that PL either legitimately doesn't care about sovereignty, and thus shouldn't be speaking of sovereign space module related issues, or they are literally the worst at eve now that BoB has died, again. (Don't give me that RaidenDOT crap, you're 4 months old.)
On topic? This thread is about PL now? And, WTF? We still owned NOL? Did the Testies have, like, a cloaker in there for a few weeks to make sure the bogey man was gone before boldly conquering it?
Quote: You say we shouldn't be safe in our space, because it's 0.0. I say you shouldn't be safer in our 0.0 because of an administrative decision. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Now you will see how it works to you:
There are only a couple of significant effects of this change.
First, you will not be able to move capitals and super-capitals from cyno-jammed system to cyno-jammed system anymore without exposing them, at least briefly, to attack by other capitals and super-capitals. So, you won't be able to move capitals and supers around between cyno-jammed systems to protect those jammers. But you're the sov expert, so you know this, right?
The second is that small groups and individuals will not be able to move in complete safety from other small groups and individuals. I'll be able to camp your choke point gates with a one, or a few, and if you want to be safe, you'll have to bring more than one, or a few, to negotiate that gate.
Quote: You want enemy sovereign space to be safer for yourselves PL, and for that I attest you are deep-pocketed cowards.
No, I'd like to be able to attack your caps and super-caps with my caps and super-caps when you move them around, and I'd like to be able to engage you with something less than a blob.
Quote: Of course herein lies the point where someone out here goes "U mad?"
Well, not to be Captain Obvious, but you do seem pretty mad, and it seems to be keeping you from looking at this objectively.
Quote: Some statistics (Not giving locations, you can dotlan the rest): We have 68 systems. We have 28 outposts. Goonwaffe owns 13 jumpbridge links, some systems have more than one.
You have my sympathy. I've had to maintain that kind of crap myself.
Quote: You try to make the NC look bad through speculation, we successfully make you look bad through fact. :dealwizit:
Actually, most of us just want you to keep raging so we can laugh at you. Some geezers like me, though, might take a little pity and try to talk you down out of the tree you're in. Here, kitty kitty kitty.
One thing that I'll give you is that the timing of this stinks. Making changes that are literally game changing in the middle of a major conflict isn't the greatest, but, CCP has a history of that. Goons would have been utterly crushed by Bob and friends a long time ago if remote doomsdays hadn't been taken away in the middle of a war. If that was before your time, ask around.
This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 12:36:00 -
[2023]
Originally by: ssgt slaughter i think the one thing ccp fallout has missed is there are ready such pockets where jumpbridges have to leave the route from one network to another and there are many of them. these pockets very seldomly see traffic if ever so what do you think is going to change. your going to force pvp in null sec? well how about starting with a game mechanic where a cloak ship automatically uncloaks every half an hour hmmmmmmmm. that would force some pvp huh these ashats who sit in systems for days on end and never uncloak and a lot of tiems they come to the keyboard from thioer alt only to smack in local. what a bunch of bull**** that is and ccp says is part of the game mechanics to sit cloaked afk in a system for days.
time for my sig again:
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 13:05:00 -
[2024]
Originally by: Klausan I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.
I can confirm I'm resubbing 20 accounts so I can afk cloak an entire region
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.05.13 13:22:00 -
[2025]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
That's a load of bunkum, Soundwave. Between choke-point gate camps, hostile roams and black ops hot drops there's no shortage of opportunity for PvP. Us nullsec dwellers don't use Jump Bridges to avoid PvP, we use it to get to where it's going on faster.
Most Eve players can't power play for hours on end. If we log on and a fleet has left our only realistic way of participating in it is by using Jump Bridges to catch up. Now you want to remove that meaning more people who miss fleets leaving will be more inclined to log right off again.
You also say it's relatively lifeless and boring and yet these changes, coupled with the previous soverignty changes are forcing nullsec dwellers into a smaller concentration of systems. If you want to make the whole of 0.0 exciting for PvPers then you need to give those who live there a reason to spread out lessening the number of jumps a fleet has to go to find targets. The tighter the concentration of pilots, the harder it is for a small gang to engage in combat and the higher the likelihood of them being blobbed.
Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur |
davet517
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.13 13:47:00 -
[2026]
Originally by: John McCreedy Stuff
John, you're about the only guy I know who can utterly contradict himself in the span of three paragraphs with a straight face. First you say this is bad 'cause people won't be able to catch up with and form teh blob. Then you say it's bad because it's going to cause blobs. Choose one argument please.
You want to be able to blob up from all over the map with your stragglers safe from being picked off, ok fine, but man up and just be pro-blob rather than trying to have it both ways.
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Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:16:00 -
[2027]
Originally by: davet517 This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.
Couldn't have said it better. Give this guy a beer, it's friday.
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DaSumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:26:00 -
[2028]
HELL YEAH !
I still can't decide if i like the JB nerf more than the NC tears.
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Jackson Millenius
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:42:00 -
[2029]
Edited by: Jackson Millenius on 13/05/2011 14:45:13 Ya I like this.
It WILL create more pvp in null. having to use 1 gate after 1 jumpbridge will lead to more gate camps deeper in null, and less safety for carebears.
Costs for the fuel may also decrease because there wont be as many bridges to support as well as the increased storage space.
edit:
Holy Jesus I didn't realize there was 80 pages of whine.
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Talon Calais
Strategic Syndicate -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:44:00 -
[2030]
I know how to increase pvp interaction: encourage players to stay docked up so they can walk around in stations. Brilliant idea.
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Jackson Millenius
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:46:00 -
[2031]
Originally by: Talon Calais I know how to increase pvp interaction: encourage players to stay docked up so they can walk around in stations. Brilliant idea.
Unless I can dry hump random ppl in stations I will get bored of it quick
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ReddSky
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:46:00 -
[2032]
Originally by: davet517
There are only a couple of significant effects of this change.
First, you will not be able to move capitals and super-capitals from cyno-jammed system to cyno-jammed system anymore without exposing them, at least briefly, to attack by other capitals and super-capitals. So, you won't be able to move capitals and supers around between cyno-jammed systems to protect those jammers. But you're the sov expert, so you know this, right?
The second is that small groups and individuals will not be able to move in complete safety from other small groups and individuals. I'll be able to camp your choke point gates with one, or a few, and if you want to be safe, you'll have to bring more than one, or a few, to negotiate that gate.
.....
This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.
^^ This
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Krieg Taniss
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Posted - 2011.05.13 14:58:00 -
[2033]
Limit the number of jump bridge to 1 will literally kill small industrial who are living in null-sec. They needs a relatively safe place in order to develop an industrial activity, because they are easy prey for pirates.
It would be much more intelligent to restrict the range of jump-bridges to a constellation, because the effect will be the same, but it will also create a relatively safe space for manufacturers.
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Kernel Flux
Intaki Armaments
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Posted - 2011.05.13 15:06:00 -
[2034]
So once again the people who actually USE the game mechanics that were designed by CCP are being penalized. That's just super! While you're at it limit JB's to only be able to jump cruisers or smaller sized ships. Don't want those nasty battleships going through to project undue force over large distances.
CCP you are effectively undoing man-years of effort in one fell swoop; again. This does not improve the game and seriously annoys a large portion of your player base; you know, the people who have been subscribers a long time? Your customers? The people who pay you money??
-------------- We specialize in building T1, T2, T3 ships, drones, ammo, fittings and rigs. Call for more info. |
Kernel Flux
Intaki Armaments
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Posted - 2011.05.13 15:29:00 -
[2035]
Edited by: Kernel Flux on 13/05/2011 15:29:54
Originally by: John McCreedy
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
That's a load of bunkum, Soundwave. Between choke-point gate camps, hostile roams and black ops hot drops there's no shortage of opportunity for PvP. Us nullsec dwellers don't use Jump Bridges to avoid PvP, we use it to get to where it's going on faster.
Most Eve players can't power play for hours on end. If we log on and a fleet has left our only realistic way of participating in it is by using Jump Bridges to catch up. Now you want to remove that meaning more people who miss fleets leaving will be more inclined to log right off again.
You also say it's relatively lifeless and boring and yet these changes, coupled with the previous soverignty changes are forcing nullsec dwellers into a smaller concentration of systems. If you want to make the whole of 0.0 exciting for PvPers then you need to give those who live there a reason to spread out lessening the number of jumps a fleet has to go to find targets. The tighter the concentration of pilots, the harder it is for a small gang to engage in combat and the higher the likelihood of them being blobbed.
^^ this - well said!
/signed
-------------- We specialize in building T1, T2, T3 ships, drones, ammo, fittings and rigs. Call for more info. |
FalconX Blast
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Posted - 2011.05.13 15:36:00 -
[2036]
I'm a PVP player, and I've always considered JBs to be the sole reason for holding sov as it gives you a "home court" advantage in PVP. JBs allow you to get in front of a hostile fleet that is invading your space as they are required to take conventional gates. Otherwise, you'll never catch them when they retreat. So what's the point of owning space if you are required to fight with the exact same tactics regardless of being in your space or hostile space? JBs are built for mixing it up for PVP in my opinion.
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Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.13 15:53:00 -
[2037]
Originally by: Klausan I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.
- implying you have friends. elohel.
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:03:00 -
[2038]
Originally by: FalconX Blast I'm a PVP player, and I've always considered JBs to be the sole reason for holding sov as it gives you a "home court" advantage in PVP. JBs allow you to get in front of a hostile fleet that is invading your space as they are required to take conventional gates. Otherwise, you'll never catch them when they retreat. So what's the point of owning space if you are required to fight with the exact same tactics regardless of being in your space or hostile space? JBs are built for mixing it up for PVP in my opinion.
Just FYI, this patch isn't removing JBs. They'll still work for what you said.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:05:00 -
[2039]
Originally by: Ogogov
Originally by: Klausan I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.
- implying you have friends. elohel.
You'd think that out of the 105 characters they can have on 35 accounts that at least one or two would be scout alts?
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
scarfo
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:06:00 -
[2040]
Long term:
WeÆre currently looking into a long term plan for 0.0. I say long term, not because itÆs planned for 2014, but because the work will begin this winter and hopefully go on for a while
Ccp are you telling me that after x amount of years you have no long term plan for 0.0?
I think the community as well as CCP feels that 0.0 is in need of a bit of an overhaul, so thatÆs what weÆll do.
Why not just ask the csm deligates what they think instead of just assuming what the community tthinks? (they are supposed to represent a broad cross section of the community)
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scarfo
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:13:00 -
[2041]
The starting point for that is identifying 0.0s weaknesses, and developing guidelines for what 0.0 ôshouldö be. Luckily, the CSM will be joining us this month so the players are adequately represented. WeÆll have several sessions with them and hopefully they will be able to contribute to our goal. To give you a quick peek at the type of topics weÆre looking at when doing this evaluation (in no particular order):
Are you telling me that you havent allready identified 0.0s weaknesses?, that there are no guide lines allready in place? and you dont know what 0.0 should be?
Ccp it seems that youre just blindly lurching from pillar to post and that there is no overall stratagey and no sense of a cohesive direction, i hope you prove me wrong!!! typos and stupid clumsy fingers :/
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Karles
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:26:00 -
[2042]
I have some suggestions for CCP
- Remove all capitals, cynos, cynojammers, jumpbridges and Jump beacons. Whover wants ships moved has to move them by gates.
- Until you get 75m sp you will not be able to use BS's. Everyone using a drake will be banned for life.
- T2 can only be used if you have more than 4k kills. T3 only when you get 4k kills IN T2 SHIPS.
- No more nullsec, lowsec or concord. Everyone can be killed everywhere. And if you look badly someone you became automatically bountied and pursued through all universe.
- Rats from now on have 10m bounties for starter frigates and 3b for BS.
- Rat ships from now on are supplied by the former Concord ship supplier.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:31:00 -
[2043]
Originally by: scarfo ..(they are supposed to represent a broad cross section of the community)
"Supposed to" as opposed to "Are" .. huge difference. Asking the current CSM about base changes is like asking for gun control advice from a gun manufacturer PS: Read the Assembly Hall. Topics for the upcoming summit are mostly null related with very few exceptions. CCP apparently mean business this time.
Wonder if the bloat entities that have relied on mechanics to keep their space (space, not sov) safe are able to adapt .. policing the space-lanes is proper oldschool Eve and was one of the most fun parts to boot, glad its coming back.
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Falin Whalen
Gallente GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:36:00 -
[2044]
If you haven't figured out how to kill dumb people in 0.0 you are probably too stupid to play video games.
I guess that is why PL really love this 'tweak'.
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Rebel biscuit
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:42:00 -
[2045]
Edited by: Rebel biscuit on 13/05/2011 17:44:29 Dear ccp
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Mortimer Civeri
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.13 17:52:00 -
[2046]
Quote: The game as it stands now though rewards nothing except bot friendly behavior or the control of certain moon minerals. Rewind 3-4 years ago. The only thing that's changed is that static complexes are on this list now as well.
The game is fundamentally broken favoring automated PvE objectives and providing PvP only as a means to ensure large scale level alliance income a la moons. This type of income does nothing for nor encourages small scale warfare.
I'm not offering any solutions because f**k after playing 5 years of EVE it seems like the only thing the game is good for is starting a conversation about "How would you fix EVE"?
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:03:00 -
[2047]
Originally by: Klausan I resubbed with my 5 accounts because of this change, and my friends are resubbing with atleast 30 more accounts.
Wow i had no idea welfare paid so well ...
i call BS we know you don't have that many friends. AND NO the guys that beats you up and take your lunch money IS NOT YOUR FRIEND
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:06:00 -
[2048]
Originally by: Geralden Now we just need to get rid of all supercapitals and T3 ships from the game. They give unfair advantages and are not in touch with the other ships, so because it's more easy to remove than rebalance they should be deleted from the game.
Since 95% of supers have been build by RMT'ers, supers should be deleted without any form of compensation. CSAA's will still be there, and will cost 500% more to upkeep, since there will be a big influx of players needing regular capital ships beeing build, after the death of all supers.
T3 ships are too powerfull compared to their sig radius, so damage migration is not in balance with any other ships in the game. They should be compensated, so there will be 2 racial HACs in your hangar instead of the racial t3 version.
Now, we're closer to a more open PVP enviroment.
but but ...if you don't have RMT funded fleets .. what would PL do as a corp?
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't nerf the T3 and Supers ... without them the NCdot would not even be a challenge
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:11:00 -
[2049]
Originally by: davet517 Edited by: davet517 on 13/05/2011 12:36:34 Edited by: davet517 on 13/05/2011 12:29:23
Originally by: Tango Zulu
Back on topic: If Pandemic Legion wants to speak about sovereign space related issues, let me point you to them losing NOL-M9 to TEST. Just showing for those out of the loop that PL either legitimately doesn't care about sovereignty, and thus shouldn't be speaking of sovereign space module related issues, or they are literally the worst at eve now that BoB has died, again. (Don't give me that RaidenDOT crap, you're 4 months old.)
On topic? This thread is about PL now? And, WTF? We still owned NOL? Did the Testies have, like, a cloaker in there for a few weeks to make sure the bogey man was gone before boldly conquering it?
Quote: You say we shouldn't be safe in our space, because it's 0.0. I say you shouldn't be safer in our 0.0 because of an administrative decision. For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction. Now you will see how it works to you:
There are only a couple of significant effects of this change.
First, you will not be able to move capitals and super-capitals from cyno-jammed system to cyno-jammed system anymore without exposing them, at least briefly, to attack by other capitals and super-capitals. So, you won't be able to move capitals and supers around between cyno-jammed systems to protect those jammers. But you're the sov expert, so you know this, right?
The second is that small groups and individuals will not be able to move in complete safety from other small groups and individuals. I'll be able to camp your choke point gates with one, or a few, and if you want to be safe, you'll have to bring more than one, or a few, to negotiate that gate.
Quote: You want enemy sovereign space to be safer for yourselves PL, and for that I attest you are deep-pocketed cowards.
No, I'd like to be able to attack your caps and super-caps with my caps and super-caps when you move them around, and I'd like to be able to engage you with something less than a blob.
Quote: Of course herein lies the point where someone out here goes "U mad?"
Well, not to be Captain Obvious, but you do seem pretty mad, and it seems to be keeping you from looking at this objectively.
Quote: Some statistics (Not giving locations, you can dotlan the rest): We have 68 systems. We have 28 outposts. Goonwaffe owns 13 jumpbridge links, some systems have more than one.
You have my sympathy. I've had to maintain that kind of crap myself.
Quote: You try to make the NC look bad through speculation, we successfully make you look bad through fact. :dealwizit:
Actually, most of us just want you to keep raging so we can laugh at you. Some geezers like me, though, might take a little pity and try to talk you down out of the tree you're in. Here, kitty kitty kitty.
One thing that I'll give you is that the timing of this stinks. Making changes that are literally game changing in the middle of a major conflict isn't the greatest, but, CCP has a history of that. Goons would have been utterly crushed by Bob and friends a long time ago if remote doomsdays hadn't been taken away in the middle of a war. If that was before your time, ask around.
This isn't CCP moving away from the "sandbox" concept, at all. They just recognize that passive defenses are a little too good right now, and the balance needs to move back toward requiring players to put up an active defense.
LOL looking back at your corp history and seeing IT
I think we know whos mad don't we bro
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:13:00 -
[2050]
Originally by: Karles I have some suggestions for CCP
- Remove all capitals, cynos, cynojammers, jumpbridges and Jump beacons. Whover wants ships moved has to move them by gates.
- Until you get 75m sp you will not be able to use BS's. Everyone using a drake will be banned for life.
- T2 can only be used if you have more than 4k kills. T3 only when you get 4k kills IN T2 SHIPS.
- No more nullsec, lowsec or concord. Everyone can be killed everywhere. And if you look badly someone you became automatically bountied and pursued through all universe.
- Rats from now on have 10m bounties for starter frigates and 3b for BS.
- Rat ships from now on are supplied by the former Concord ship supplier.
you must be a PL alt .. eve would be a noob graveyard
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:22:00 -
[2051]
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: scarfo ..(they are supposed to represent a broad cross section of the community)
"Supposed to" as opposed to "Are" .. huge difference. Asking the current CSM about base changes is like asking for gun control advice from a gun manufacturer
As appose to what .. a group of Hoplophobic idiots who talk in broad statements that are not based in fact but rather emotion and ideal even though the facts don't agree with them...
Originally by: scarfo
PS: Read the Assembly Hall. Topics for the upcoming summit are mostly null related with very few exceptions. CCP apparently mean business this time.
Wonder if the bloat entities that have relied on mechanics to keep their space (space, not sov) safe are able to adapt .. policing the space-lanes is proper oldschool Eve and was one of the most fun parts to boot, glad its coming back.
Well of COURSE they mean business this time .. CCP wants their payoff from the RMT corp.
ya know ... a lot has been said about how "mad" the NC is ... we will still be here after the changes and it won't change much for us ...... but it is gonna make things even more boring in null ... many of us will be playing less .. and paying less because well who wants to run gate convoys.
does that mean the NC will fail ... no
.... cause bots can't fight and PL doesn't do much but "look like they are winning"
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Mortimer Civeri
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:27:00 -
[2052]
Dang, this guy saw what was going to happen 5 months ago.
Linkage
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:47:00 -
[2053]
Originally by: Mortimer Civeri Dang, this guy saw what was going to happen 5 months ago.
Linkage
^ Damn. Guess I was right to jump on that bandwagon. Had been a bit worried they would get nerfed.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Dark Nephilium
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Posted - 2011.05.13 18:56:00 -
[2054]
Originally by: lance goodtrusts oh on a much more joyful note this nerf will be a huge death blow to the nc. the defensvie bridge network they have accross the front is now history its been there for a few years now . awesome lets see mh come help razor now on a whim. ccp fallout has done his own little bit to divide and conquer the nc awesome job on that regard. i guess ccp is tired of the nc smack talkers in local as much as the rest of us.
Shows how little you guys actually know. It is a very rare occurrence to have a fleet use the jb's as we prefer to leave fuel in them so our logistics don't get stranded at empty jb.
JB change doesn't really affect the ability to project force where needed. That is what titan bridges are for.
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:06:00 -
[2055]
Originally by: Falin Whalen If you haven't figured out how to kill dumb people in 0.0 you are probably too stupid to play video games.
I guess that is why PL really love this 'tweak'.
Quoting for OBVIOUS truth here
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Mortimer Civeri
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:08:00 -
[2056]
Looks like I have to train up a SuperCap before I can play in the big kids pool. Thanks CCP for being so ******ed.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:38:00 -
[2057]
Originally by: Mortimer Civeri Looks like I have to train up a SuperCap before I can play in the big kids pool. Thanks CCP for being so ******ed.
Training is the easy part really. Convincing someone to sell you one and getting the isk to pay for it are the hard part.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:39:00 -
[2058]
Adapt or die!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.05.13 19:48:00 -
[2059]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
I did. Not as fun. Did you do the supercaps online upgrade?
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Karles
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Posted - 2011.05.13 20:00:00 -
[2060]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Karles I have some suggestions for CCP
- Remove all capitals, cynos, cynojammers, jumpbridges and Jump beacons. Whover wants ships moved has to move them by gates.
- Until you get 75m sp you will not be able to use BS's. Everyone using a drake will be banned for life.
- T2 can only be used if you have more than 4k kills. T3 only when you get 4k kills IN T2 SHIPS.
- No more nullsec, lowsec or concord. Everyone can be killed everywhere. And if you look badly someone you became automatically bountied and pursued through all universe.
- Rats from now on have 10m bounties for starter frigates and 3b for BS.
- Rat ships from now on are supplied by the former Concord ship supplier.
you must be a PL alt .. eve would be a noob graveyard
1.- Check Killmails ( I must be the best PL alt in history) http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=86265 2.- A couple links that I thought you might find useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 20:03:00 -
[2061]
Originally by: Bagehi
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
I did. Not as fun. Did you do the supercaps online upgrade?
I did, but I hate FOTM (FOTY?) so I uninstalled it.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:22:00 -
[2062]
Originally by: Karles
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Karles I have some suggestions for CCP
- Remove all capitals, cynos, cynojammers, jumpbridges and Jump beacons. Whover wants ships moved has to move them by gates.
- Until you get 75m sp you will not be able to use BS's. Everyone using a drake will be banned for life.
- T2 can only be used if you have more than 4k kills. T3 only when you get 4k kills IN T2 SHIPS.
- No more nullsec, lowsec or concord. Everyone can be killed everywhere. And if you look badly someone you became automatically bountied and pursued through all universe.
- Rats from now on have 10m bounties for starter frigates and 3b for BS.
- Rat ships from now on are supplied by the former Concord ship supplier.
you must be a PL alt .. eve would be a noob graveyard
1.- Check Killmails ( I must be the best PL alt in history) http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=86265 2.- A couple links that I thought you might find useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
You missed the reference earlier. Pl always claims your an alt of someone if you disagree with the JB "tweak"
Just like when they swear they don't use covert ops ... and yet i just finished decloaking one off a gate with a bomb
soz i prolly didn't make that obvious enough
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:24:00 -
[2063]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
*looks at employment history*
LAWL
I love irony
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John McCreedy
Caldari Eve Defence Force
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:50:00 -
[2064]
Originally by: davet517
You want to be able to blob up from all over the map with your stragglers safe from being picked off, ok fine, but man up and just be pro-blob rather than trying to have it both ways.
Who said anything about wanting to catch a blob? I certainly didn't. I can get maybe ten guys online in my corp. these days, which hardly constitutes a blob, and if they go out on a roam and I log on and they're 15 jumps away as opposed to 2 jump bridges away then I'm more likely to log off and play something else than risk a ship un-scouted.
Across the galaxy there is only war. [center] Website Forums [ur |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 21:55:00 -
[2065]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
*looks at employment history*
LAWL
I love irony
Says the 5 month old character...
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Myz Toyou
APOCALYPSE LEGION
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:18:00 -
[2066]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
*looks at employment history*
LAWL
I love irony
Says the 5 month old character...
Just ignore him, even his BFF flamed him in CAOD because he is such a ****** full of teenageangst to lose his safe jew heaven.
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:42:00 -
[2067]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
*looks at employment history*
LAWL
I love irony
Says the 5 month old character...
You mad bro, cause ya sound mad bro
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Phigmeta
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:44:00 -
[2068]
Originally by: Myz Toyou
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky Adapt or die!
*looks at employment history*
LAWL
I love irony
Says the 5 month old character...
Just ignore him, even his BFF flamed him in CAOD because he is such a ****** full of teenageangst to lose his safe jew heaven.
ahh .. your broke?, and all out of cash to buy more PLEX? .... soz man .. but ya don't have to blame us jews.
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stonewall ironside
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Posted - 2011.05.13 22:45:00 -
[2069]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Marlona Sky E .+ ` ' / +. F Your tears fuel me!
Your overused ASCII boars me ... undock for gods sake.
this from the guy with half the posts on 2 of the last 3 pages.
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Ben Derindar
Dirty Deeds Corp.
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Posted - 2011.05.13 23:00:00 -
[2070]
Originally by: John McCreedy Between choke-point gate camps, hostile roams and black ops hot drops there's no shortage of opportunity for PvP. Us nullsec dwellers don't use Jump Bridges to avoid PvP, we use it to get to where it's going on faster.
Most Eve players can't power play for hours on end. If we log on and a fleet has left our only realistic way of participating in it is by using Jump Bridges to catch up. Now you want to remove that meaning more people who miss fleets leaving will be more inclined to log right off again.
Hey John, do you remember when ASCN took Omist in 2005? I do. When I got home and logged in from Impass the fleet was already out there shooting the stations. Or perhaps you remember the many outposts we set up in Feythabolis. The ones at the bottom of Feyth were an especially long way to get to from 68FT. You may even recall how we conspired with LV to get revenge on that corp thief Eddy Hascal; when LV put the word out that it was about to happen, I had to scramble myself from Impass to Tenerifis within the hour.
In all three cases, the situation was already underway and time was short if I didn't want to miss out. So you know what I did?
I few a ceptor.
You can, too.
Originally by: John McCreedy You also say it's relatively lifeless and boring and yet these changes, coupled with the previous soverignty changes are forcing nullsec dwellers into a smaller concentration of systems. If you want to make the whole of 0.0 exciting for PvPers then you need to give those who live there a reason to spread out lessening the number of jumps a fleet has to go to find targets. The tighter the concentration of pilots, the harder it is for a small gang to engage in combat and the higher the likelihood of them being blobbed.
Having fewer blues also means not having to fly as far to find a fight. Did you ever consider that?
Imagine an Eve where the biggest alliances were no more than ~500 or so people. Where it took so long to get anywhere that there was simply no point in having such massive NAP lists spanning half the galaxy anymore. For anyone to get "good fights", their best options were in fact their immediate neighbours. There would still be fleet battles involving hundreds on each side, without the worry of the opposition being able to batphone for help and have it arrive from literally anywhere within hours, and without the crippling lag that today's largest battles always induce.
This JB change is absolutely for the best as far as the greater health of the game is concerned. There are other changes that need to happen too: in particular capital ship jump ranges need a severe nerf, and I'd also like to see jump clone timers extended to at least 48 hours, if not more. But this is a good start; anything that serves to break down conflict in Eve from the current global level, back to the more manageable regional level it used to be, is a Very Good ThingÖ.
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SirLANsalot
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Posted - 2011.05.14 00:30:00 -
[2071]
This change would of been good when JB's were first added, but now its not. The only reason JB networks are "safe" is because people have WORKED to make it that way. They still get camped anyway, and they work as both an offensive and defensive network. 0.0 has moved on from being small scale warfare and has "grown up" to being global warfare.
A better idea, would take less programming to do, then doing the 1 JB per a system, would of been to increase the Power Grid cost of Jump Bridges. So that you can't put that many guns on said POS. So that you will only have (at most) 2 big guns, or just 1 scram and a small gun. That would take the supposed "safety" of a Jump Bridge away. Making it into just another low sec gate that shoots you with laughable guns. This would allow people to keep there current network but would offline almost everything else in the POS.
The first part of the update is good, ships with there own Jump Drive can move around on there own and farther then any Jump Bridge. This also stops an exploit of Cyno-jammers (as many people keep whining about *cough*NC/DC*cough* the people who do this exploit) of cyno-jamming a system and jump-bridging in your caps. If you really wanted to protect your cyno jammed system, then offline the jammer, move your ships in, and re-online it and keep the caps parked in that system. Which would mean needing more caps to be built per a player with said ship "locked" in the system, meaning more ISK spent. Cyno-jammers are a two edged sword, they work for and against you.
Overall I am against this, as it hurts the outer null sec players. That is BOTH the NC and DRF it hurts, not just the one. It also backhands every long standing group of alliances, that took many long years to build there networks. If CCP wanted to keep null small scale warfare, they wouldn't of added JB's, wouldn't of added Jump Portal Generators, wouldn't of added the things that make null-sec bigger. The days of a single large alliance dominating an area are over (IT was the last one) now to live in null, you need friends. The game has grown, and anything that reverses it is going to be a backhand to all that have worked to make it that way.
Hope CCP is listening, otherwise........
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stonewall ironwill
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Posted - 2011.05.14 01:49:00 -
[2072]
Originally by: SirLANsalot Edited by: SirLANsalot on 14/05/2011 01:14:11 This change would of been good when JB's were first added, but now its not. The only reason JB networks are "safe" is because people have WORKED to make it that way. They still get camped anyway, and they work as both an offensive and defensive network. 0.0 has moved on from being small scale warfare and has "grown up" to being global warfare.
A better idea, would take less programming to do, then doing the 1 JB per a system, would of been to increase the Power Grid cost of Jump Bridges. So that you can't put that many guns on said POS, this also would restrict JB's to Large POS's only (even tho who would put a JB on a med is beyond me :P ). So that you will only have (at most) 2 big guns, or just 1 scram and a small gun. That would take the supposed "safety" of a Jump Bridge away. Making it into just another low sec gate that shoots you with laughable guns. This would allow people to keep there current network but would offline almost everything else in the POS.
The first part of the update is good, ships with there own Jump Drive can move around on there own and farther then any Jump Bridge. This also stops an exploit of Cyno-jammers (as many people keep whining about *cough*NC/DC*cough* the people who do this exploit) of cyno-jamming a system and jump-bridging in your caps. If you really wanted to protect your cyno jammed system, then offline the jammer, move your ships in, and re-online it and keep the caps parked in that system. Which would mean needing more caps to be built per a player with said ship "locked" in the system, meaning more ISK spent. Cyno-jammers are a two edged sword, they work for and against you.
Overall I am against this, as it hurts the outer null sec players. That is BOTH the NC and DRF it hurts, not just the one. It also backhands every long standing group of alliances, that took many long years to build there networks. If CCP wanted to keep null small scale warfare, they wouldn't of added JB's, wouldn't of added Jump Portal Generators, wouldn't of added the things that make null-sec bigger. The days of a single large alliance dominating an area are over (IT was the last one) now to live in null, you need friends. The game has grown, and anything that reverses it is going to be a backhand to all that have worked to make it that way.
Hope CCP is listening, otherwise........
this make no sence what so ever. your telling me that cynod aoe DD should still be in game basicaly by your logic (if you can call it that) because back when titans came out thay where a massive investment of time, isk, and SP. thay seen a game mecanic that is broken and thay are fixing it for the better. if thay dont like the outcome thay will tweek it more. |
SirLANsalot
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Posted - 2011.05.14 02:14:00 -
[2073]
Originally by: stonewall ironwill
Originally by: SirLANsalot Edited by: SirLANsalot on 14/05/2011 01:14:11 This change would of been good when JB's were first added, but now its not. The only reason JB networks are "safe" is because people have WORKED to make it that way. They still get camped anyway, and they work as both an offensive and defensive network. 0.0 has moved on from being small scale warfare and has "grown up" to being global warfare.
A better idea, would take less programming to do, then doing the 1 JB per a system, would of been to increase the Power Grid cost of Jump Bridges. So that you can't put that many guns on said POS, this also would restrict JB's to Large POS's only (even tho who would put a JB on a med is beyond me :P ). So that you will only have (at most) 2 big guns, or just 1 scram and a small gun. That would take the supposed "safety" of a Jump Bridge away. Making it into just another low sec gate that shoots you with laughable guns. This would allow people to keep there current network but would offline almost everything else in the POS.
The first part of the update is good, ships with there own Jump Drive can move around on there own and farther then any Jump Bridge. This also stops an exploit of Cyno-jammers (as many people keep whining about *cough*NC/DC*cough* the people who do this exploit) of cyno-jamming a system and jump-bridging in your caps. If you really wanted to protect your cyno jammed system, then offline the jammer, move your ships in, and re-online it and keep the caps parked in that system. Which would mean needing more caps to be built per a player with said ship "locked" in the system, meaning more ISK spent. Cyno-jammers are a two edged sword, they work for and against you.
Overall I am against this, as it hurts the outer null sec players. That is BOTH the NC and DRF it hurts, not just the one. It also backhands every long standing group of alliances, that took many long years to build there networks. If CCP wanted to keep null small scale warfare, they wouldn't of added JB's, wouldn't of added Jump Portal Generators, wouldn't of added the things that make null-sec bigger. The days of a single large alliance dominating an area are over (IT was the last one) now to live in null, you need friends. The game has grown, and anything that reverses it is going to be a backhand to all that have worked to make it that way.
Hope CCP is listening, otherwise........
this make no sense what so ever. your telling me that cynod aoe DD should still be in game basically by your logic (if you can call it that) because back when titans came out they where a massive investment of time, isk, and SP. they seen a game mechanic that is broken and they are fixing it for the better. if they don't like the outcome they will tweak it more.
Apparently "my logic" went over your comprehension level. I am in Favor of the first part of there update (making caps unable to use a JB). The second part of there update I am not, and so gave a better idea, one that would still do what they want, while keeping the current system intact.
Reread my post and understand it. I was purposing a new alternate idea to what they are doing now. The part about removing caps from the JB list, I put in the reason they are taking that action (a good one) because people abused it. Same with the old cyno aoe DD, and the reason they adjusted it to no-longer do that. Wish the AoE DD still was around instead of making it useless, but they could of changed it so you wouldn't be able to activate you JD while the DD was charging.
Note: Fixed your spelling, which along with your reading comprehension, needs to be at level 5
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stonewall ironwill
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Posted - 2011.05.14 03:10:00 -
[2074]
Originally by: SirLANsalot
Originally by: stonewall ironwill
Originally by: SirLANsalot Edited by: SirLANsalot on 14/05/2011 01:14:11
this make no sense what so ever. your telling me that cynod aoe DD should still be in game basically by your logic (if you can call it that) because back when titans came out they where a massive investment of time, isk, and SP. they seen a game mechanic that is broken and they are fixing it for the better. if they don't like the outcome they will tweak it more.
I did read it and if you focus (I know this is hard for you) the last paragraph was the part I was referring to. Where you said
ôIt also backhands every long standing group of alliances, that took many long years to build there networks. If CCP wanted to keep null small scale warfare, they wouldn't of added JB's, wouldn't of added Jump Portal Generators, wouldn't of added the things that make null-sec bigger. The days of a single large alliance dominating an area are over (IT was the last one) now to live in null, you need friends. The game has grown, and anything that reverses it is going to be a backhand to all that have worked to make it that way.ö
This also if you want to get really technical contradicts your first three paragraphs. These cyno jammed JB systems that you think is a good thing they are removing caps ability to use the JB also took time and isk to set up. Stop eating paste and sniffing glue.
And OMG you found a typo which is probably do to the IQ points I lost reading your post.
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Tamahra
Gallente Apina.
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Posted - 2011.05.14 03:37:00 -
[2075]
Edited by: Tamahra on 14/05/2011 03:37:09
Originally by: SirLANsalot
This change would of been good when JB's were first added, but now its not.
I can understand the people who are unhappy at these changes, and, Newsflash: CCP can understand you too. That aside, this is the first move from CCP¦s side to make it harder for large powerblocs to control their territory, the larger their territory grows.
And as such, this change bears alot potential to make null-sec more dynamic and open up opportunities for smaller entities to get a foot-hold in null-sec.
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Elsa Nietchize
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Posted - 2011.05.14 03:52:00 -
[2076]
Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 14/05/2011 03:53:04 I wasn't going to bother posting in this thread but after 70 pages, i'm sure ccp stopped reading it ages ago. while i'm sure that's wrong and they're diligently reading this thread and monitoring our responses, i'd like to take this time to say one thing **** you CCP. you keep ******* on your players like SE did in FFXI and you'll only get what you deserve. i hope 514 ends up exactly like FFXIV. the only thing fun in game these days is PVP and you keep doing your part to mess that up too. everything i've seen you do since i've been in game has been half-*****. your stupid incarna **** is dumb and half your player base is of this mindset. i really dont care about the JB changes personally, but the fact of the matter is your changes as of late have done more to hurt the game than help it. keep up the great work jack *****
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Ohh Yeah
SniggWaffe FREE KARTTOON NOW
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Posted - 2011.05.14 04:11:00 -
[2077]
Originally by: Elsa Nietchize Edited by: Elsa Nietchize on 14/05/2011 03:53:04 I wasn't going to bother posting in this thread but after 70 pages, i'm sure ccp stopped reading it ages ago. while i'm sure that's wrong and they're diligently reading this thread and monitoring our responses, i'd like to take this time to say one thing **** you CCP. you keep ******* on your players like SE did in FFXI and you'll only get what you deserve. i hope 514 ends up exactly like FFXIV. the only thing fun in game these days is PVP and you keep doing your part to mess that up too. everything i've seen you do since i've been in game has been half-*****. your stupid incarna **** is dumb and half your player base is of this mindset. i really dont care about the JB changes personally, but the fact of the matter is your changes as of late have done more to hurt the game than help it. keep up the great work jack *****
nc whinepost detected
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Viribus
Broski Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.05.14 05:42:00 -
[2078]
Edited by: Viribus on 14/05/2011 05:43:02
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Needa3 Now put the jump bridges near a gate or on a planet instead of a pos so they cant go hide in the safety of a pos.
Still don't get why it is so hard to remove the damn things.
Before they were there every alliance managed to its logistics just fine. Now people don't even now how to fly through a gate. It seems like "jump bridge in game" = "no brains needed outside game"
If you ask me, those things should never have made it into the game anyway.
so, when do we get destructible stations or station ping pong? it is time Eve starts getting rid of the "easy mode"
Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Except unprobable boosting T3s are literally required for a number of fleetcomps to be viable, because the only other option is "slow and big command ships", and T3s with the boosting sub have no tank and will die if they show up on grid.
The unscannable mission running fit is just a gimmick for people too lazy or dumb to hit d-scan when neuts show up in local
It's like you don't actually play this game
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.14 06:20:00 -
[2079]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 14/05/2011 06:21:17 Oh how things seem to change over time. Especially Capital ships, jump bridges, and everything related to SOV.
AT5 capital ships comment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_Hb6I-_mq8
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Karles
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Posted - 2011.05.14 06:21:00 -
[2080]
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Karles
Originally by: Phigmeta
Originally by: Karles I have some suggestions for CCP
- Remove all capitals, cynos, cynojammers, jumpbridges and Jump beacons. Whover wants ships moved has to move them by gates.
- Until you get 75m sp you will not be able to use BS's. Everyone using a drake will be banned for life.
- T2 can only be used if you have more than 4k kills. T3 only when you get 4k kills IN T2 SHIPS.
- No more nullsec, lowsec or concord. Everyone can be killed everywhere. And if you look badly someone you became automatically bountied and pursued through all universe.
- Rats from now on have 10m bounties for starter frigates and 3b for BS.
- Rat ships from now on are supplied by the former Concord ship supplier.
you must be a PL alt .. eve would be a noob graveyard
1.- Check Killmails ( I must be the best PL alt in history) http://www.eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=86265 2.- A couple links that I thought you might find useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cynism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony
You missed the reference earlier. Pl always claims your an alt of someone if you disagree with the JB "tweak"
Just like when they swear they don't use covert ops ... and yet i just finished decloaking one off a gate with a bomb
soz i prolly didn't make that obvious enough
Lol sorry got lost with all the PL bull****. I think is time to stop reading this thread. If CCP is not going to change it there's no interest reading anything else.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.14 06:24:00 -
[2081]
Originally by: Viribus The unscannable mission running fit is just a gimmick for people too lazy or dumb to hit d-scan when neuts show up in local
It's like you don't actually play this game
Some fleets have them sitting off grid providing command module fleet booster bonuses. It's something that CCP has commented on and likely will change at some point.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 06:54:00 -
[2082]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 06:55:03
Originally by: Tango Zulu Some statistics (Not giving locations, you can dotlan the rest): We have 68 systems. We have 28 outposts. Goonwaffe owns 13 jumpbridge links, some systems have more than one.
Do we not use gates? It seems that we'd not own and use as much space as we do if we didn't.=^D
And yet large swaths of your space are empty, with the occasional duder or two in local.
BINGO little goon, this is what suffocates independent entities that want to take a go at sov holding and this is what CCP wants to nerf. They want you to free up space you don't really need.
Also, they want deep 0.0 to be an adventure for the bold, not a carebear/bot retirement home (sup tenal?).
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.14 07:03:00 -
[2083]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 06:55:03
Originally by: Tango Zulu Some statistics (Not giving locations, you can dotlan the rest): We have 68 systems. We have 28 outposts. Goonwaffe owns 13 jumpbridge links, some systems have more than one.
Do we not use gates? It seems that we'd not own and use as much space as we do if we didn't.=^D
And yet large swaths of your space are empty, with the occasional duder or two in local.
BINGO little goon, this is what suffocates independent entities that want to take a go at sov holding and this is what CCP wants to nerf. They want you to free up space you don't really need.
Also, they want deep 0.0 to be an adventure for the bold, not a carebear/bot retirement home (sup tenal?).
Spot on... Again it seems I agree with another PL comment... This is scary.
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.14 07:57:00 -
[2084]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Also, they want deep 0.0 to be an adventure for the bold, not a carebear/bot retirement home (sup tenal?).
Yes and the bold are defined by CCP and apparently you as people that hold static gatecamps on chokepoints and gank unarmed tansporters or poorly fitted PVE enemies. Not my definition of bold or even PVP.
I would love to go headon with PL (apart from the fact that PL is a bunch of ****s that use metagaming, I actually DO admire your PVP skills) in a 20 vs 20 or 10 vs 10 or whatever. That would qualify as PVP (and might end badly for me, but that another story) for me. Ganking ill fitted enemies, not so much.
If CCP wants people to live in nullsec then they should give them the ability to defend their home. This is the most likely scenario CCP is creating: PL or any other roaming gang comes in. They will find one poor smuck not reading intel, shoot his PVE fitted ship and then head back home or eat least leave the area. By the time I have switched to a PVP ship the gang is at least a couple of jumps away. So in order to engage them I need a fast and simple way to catch up: JB's. Nerf those and I am not able to engage the gang at all, they are to far away already. So, what will happen is that roaming gang will only gank PVE fitted ships and the defenders will just POS up or dock up, because they know there is no chance of catching the invaders. End of story: more boredom on both sides. All the bla bla bla about "NC tears" or "PL sucks" aside: this is a stupid move and we all know it. It only caters ganking like it is happening in lowsec and we all know what a dull place lowsec is for most of us.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:14:00 -
[2085]
Originally by: SirLANsalot This change would of been good when JB's were first added, but now its not.
"One per System" wouldn't have solved the problem at the time. If you were around and involved in null prior to Revelations, you'd know that JBs were a direct response to the epic groan/moan/whine threads from all of null as they laboured to fuel/deploy dozens of POS in every system just to have sovereignty .. looking back it boggles the mind how it was even done in the first place, logistics guys were gods among men I reckon
Once the POS were taken out of the equation with Dominion sov system, the bridges should have been removed/restricted as well .. Dominion will go down in history as the most worthless addition in Eve due to this and all the other ridiculousness it brought.
"One per System" will still allow space holders to skip over entire regions or bypass a frequently contested gate if they want .. will take some serious planning to pull off and actual policing will be required on a daily basis, other than that most everything else remains the same.
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stonewall ironwill
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Posted - 2011.05.14 08:40:00 -
[2086]
Originally by: Madcapnl Edited by: Madcapnl on 14/05/2011 08:09:38
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Also, they want deep 0.0 to be an adventure for the bold, not a carebear/bot retirement home (sup tenal?).
Yes and the bold are defined by CCP and apparently you as people that hold static gatecamps on chokepoints and gank unarmed tansporters or poorly fitted PVE enemies. Not my definition of bold or even PVP.
I would love to go headon with PL (apart from the fact that PL is a bunch of ****s that use metagaming, I actually DO admire your PVP skills) in a 20 vs 20 or 10 vs 10 or whatever. That would qualify as PVP (and might end badly for me, but that another story) for me. Ganking ill fitted enemies, not so much.
If CCP wants people to live in nullsec then they should give them the ability to defend their home. This is the most likely scenario CCP is creating: PL or any other roaming gang comes in. They will find one poor smuck not reading intel, shoot his PVE fitted ship and then head back home or at least leave the area. By the time I have switched to a PVP ship the gang is at least a couple of jumps away. So in order to engage them I need a fast and simple way to catch up: JB's. Nerf those and I am not able to engage the gang at all, they are to far away already. So, what will happen is that roaming gang will only gank PVE fitted ships and the defenders will just POS up or dock up, because they know there is no chance of catching the invaders. End of story: more boredom on both sides. All the bla bla bla about "NC tears" or "PL sucks" aside: this is a stupid move and we all know it. It only caters ganking like it is happening in lowsec and we all know what a dull place lowsec is for most of us.
Dude lots of real pvp happened before JBs, and typically camping a choke point is to force a defensive response to get a fight. As well as demoralize or choke an area strategically. |
Osinia Agrippina
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:31:00 -
[2087]
There is more danger in undocking with a factionfit tengu in motsu then there is in endlessly running anomalies in 0.0. And this change in the jump bridge network means ammo just got slightly more expensive. My heart bleeds.
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.14 09:59:00 -
[2088]
Originally by: Tamahra Edited by: Tamahra on 14/05/2011 03:37:09
Originally by: SirLANsalot
This change would of been good when JB's were first added, but now its not.
I can understand the people who are unhappy at these changes, and, Newsflash: CCP can understand you too. That aside, this is the first move from CCP¦s side to make it harder for large powerblocs to control their territory, the larger their territory grows.
And as such, this change bears alot potential to make null-sec more dynamic and open up opportunities for smaller entities to get a foot-hold in null-sec.
Won't work, just like the anom changes didn't. The big guys will claim more territory kicking out renters/pets in order to still make a good smooth chain of jump bridges.
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Meridith Akesia
Stimulus
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Posted - 2011.05.14 11:00:00 -
[2089]
So much butthurt ITT.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.14 11:31:00 -
[2090]
Originally by: Madcapnl Edited by: Madcapnl on 14/05/2011 08:09:38
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Also, they want deep 0.0 to be an adventure for the bold, not a carebear/bot retirement home (sup tenal?).
Yes and the bold are defined by CCP and apparently you as people that hold static gatecamps on chokepoints and gank unarmed tansporters or poorly fitted PVE enemies. Not my definition of bold or even PVP.
I would love to go headon with PL (apart from the fact that PL is a bunch of ****s that use metagaming, I actually DO admire your PVP skills) in a 20 vs 20 or 10 vs 10 or whatever. That would qualify as PVP (and might end badly for me, but that another story) for me. Ganking ill fitted enemies, not so much.
If CCP wants people to live in nullsec then they should give them the ability to defend their home. This is the most likely scenario CCP is creating: PL or any other roaming gang comes in. They will find one poor smuck not reading intel, shoot his PVE fitted ship and then head back home or at least leave the area. By the time I have switched to a PVP ship the gang is at least a couple of jumps away. So in order to engage them I need a fast and simple way to catch up: JB's. Nerf those and I am not able to engage the gang at all, they are to far away already. So, what will happen is that roaming gang will only gank PVE fitted ships and the defenders will just POS up or dock up, because they know there is no chance of catching the invaders. End of story: more boredom on both sides. All the bla bla bla about "NC tears" or "PL sucks" aside: this is a stupid move and we all know it. It only caters ganking like it is happening in lowsec and we all know what a dull place lowsec is for most of us.
Stop the ganking unarmed ill fitted pve ship bull****. Hostiles enter your space you should be in a pvp ship end of. If you are one of the unsung logistic heroes in your alliance then you should be safed up until the bad men leave or are chased/killed by your pvp'ers.
CCP should not be the ones to give you the tools to defend your space, that responisbility relies solely on your alliance. If you can't defend said space then you shouldn't have it. Maybe you should join gangs when the intel channels report hostiles instead of taking the jack attitude and carrying on with your isk grinding. Shame on your CEO for recruiting you. |
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Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.14 11:50:00 -
[2091]
Originally by: Osinia Agrippina There is more danger in undocking with a factionfit tengu in motsu then there is in endlessly running anomalies in 0.0. And this change in the jump bridge network means ammo just got slightly more expensive. My heart bleeds.
You cant use insta undock BM's in Motsu ? Or are you allowed to be stupid in highsec and complain about it ?
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.14 12:05:00 -
[2092]
Edited by: Marlona Sky on 14/05/2011 12:12:36
Originally by: El'Niaga Won't work, just like the anom changes didn't.
Give the anomaly change some time to have an effect.
Originally by: El'Niaga The big guys will claim more territory kicking out renters/pets in order to still make a good smooth chain of jump bridges.
Less renters means less people they can cram in a system and crash the node with. Blobs rely on numbers to work. Large entities are scared of renters packing up and going back to empire for this sole reason. This whole bleading heart for the little guy they go on about is a load of ****.
They just want their cannon fodder to stay and be their cannon fodder.
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Lost'In'Space
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Posted - 2011.05.14 12:35:00 -
[2093]
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Osinia Agrippina There is more danger in undocking with a factionfit tengu in motsu then there is in endlessly running anomalies in 0.0. And this change in the jump bridge network means ammo just got slightly more expensive. My heart bleeds.
You cant use insta undock BM's in Motsu ? Or are you allowed to be stupid in highsec and complain about it ?
You cant use scout for the defenseless and PvE ship to do that +1 gate jump for JB? Or are you allowed to be stupid in 0.0 and complain about it ?
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.14 13:15:00 -
[2094]
Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Osinia Agrippina There is more danger in undocking with a factionfit tengu in motsu then there is in endlessly running anomalies in 0.0. And this change in the jump bridge network means ammo just got slightly more expensive. My heart bleeds.
You cant use insta undock BM's in Motsu ? Or are you allowed to be stupid in highsec and complain about it ?
You cant use scout for the defenseless and PvE ship to do that +1 gate jump for JB? Or are you allowed to be stupid in 0.0 and complain about it ?
Well not so much any more. But still plenty.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.14 14:51:00 -
[2095]
Originally by: Lost'In'Space
Originally by: Rastigan
Originally by: Osinia Agrippina There is more danger in undocking with a factionfit tengu in motsu then there is in endlessly running anomalies in 0.0. And this change in the jump bridge network means ammo just got slightly more expensive. My heart bleeds.
You cant use insta undock BM's in Motsu ? Or are you allowed to be stupid in highsec and complain about it ?
You cant use scout for the defenseless and PvE ship to do that +1 gate jump for JB? Or are you allowed to be stupid in 0.0 and complain about it ?
Gate jump, JB jump is all the same to me, I know exactly what a good player (fortunately Eve doesnt have too many of those) in a SB can do solo camping a JB already. All the JB nerf really does is make the least fun job of 0.0 , logistics and industry , even harder than it already is. It has nothing to do with ratting/anoms/plexes.
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Rothana Haldane
Minmatar Multiplex Gaming SpaceMonkey's Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:03:00 -
[2096]
Okay without all the sarcastic and stupid answers, Answer this.....Why are alliances like Ncdot and PL all for this change? I mean I know you guys like to Grief and you make your money on doing what you do and do not hold very much Sov space but still eventually this change is going to hurt you as much as it will hurth the Northern coalition because some day You are going to want to hold sov somewhere. Doesn't this effect your allies such as white noise (Russian Federation) as well? I mean comon, we all play the game. You guys would prob be screaming if CCP said they would allow us 3 JB's per system instead of 2, and I would be very happy with that change. <smirk> or if they let us put jump gates and cyno gens in WH space. What People are more upset about I think is that CCP is not focusing on whats broke and focusing on something that really isn't broken. (such us nul sec anoms which was prob the worst mistake they ever made in game since the removal of mines). Lets get on track CCP and look at what is broken, fix that, before making radical changes to the 0.0 space that really wasn't broken to begin with. I was hoping Pl had a Represenative on the CSM so maybe things you saw broke would be addressed as well, but instead you spend your time bashing/trolling others ( have not really seen many reasons why this change is a good thing from you guys) who disagree with the changes happening. Oh well, I figure all this yelling and posting is frigging pointless as CCP is gonna do it anyways with or with out our approval anyways or Soundwave might have responded somewhere. What I do not see from CCP is the reason why they are making this change to 0.0 space and how is it going to make things better for EVERYONE when obviously thats a big error in judgement. Sigh, okay Fly safe everyone and see you on the other side where we can post our FUKING inn local in peace.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:14:00 -
[2097]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 15:16:56
Originally by: Madcapnl Edited by: Madcapnl on 14/05/2011 08:09:38
Originally by: Rumpelstilski Also, they want deep 0.0 to be an adventure for the bold, not a carebear/bot retirement home (sup tenal?).
Yes and the bold are defined by CCP and apparently you as people that hold static gatecamps on chokepoints and gank unarmed tansporters or poorly fitted PVE enemies. Not my definition of bold or even PVP.
My dear MH person, if all pvp in Eve was consensual, there would be nothing to be bold about, would it?
The cowardly cloaking gankers (that were, btw, bold enough to jump normal stargates to your base of operations to give you grief) are providing you with content in the forms of pumping adrenaline, free targets without the need of jumping too many gates and are doing your alliance a favor by weeding out the lame and the stupid, much like Mittani said on another forum:
Originally by: The Mittani Another thing - easy jewing is the death of sovholders. Risk is key or your people grow soft and weak, and your alliance bloats with people who might as well be empire carebears; they have no survival instinct, they're terrified of loss and pvp, and most of these are j4gs. Syndicate made GS hard and vicious, back in the day; peace in completely-safe Delve nearly killed us. As an alliance leader, I /want/ Deklein to be 'unsafe enough' that the weak and foolish either learn how to fight or get culled. Sadly, as leaders go, I may be in the minority with this view, but vauve.
...and this, my friends, is the kind of people whining most in this thread. Grow some balls, tia
Originally by: Madcapnl If CCP wants people to live in nullsec then they should give them the ability to defend their home.
You mean something like special internet spaceships that are used for combat?
You still have the advantage of intel, numbers, active titans, jump bridges, clones, reship time, docking, cyno beacons, supercaps in cyno jammed systems, allies and safe POSes, JUST SAYIN'
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:21:00 -
[2098]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 15:21:45
Originally by: Rothana Haldane Okay without all the sarcastic and stupid answers, Answer this.....Why are alliances like Ncdot and PL all for this change? I mean I know you guys like to Grief and you make your money on doing what you do and do not hold very much Sov space but still eventually this change is going to hurt you as much as it will hurth the Northern coalition because some day You are going to want to hold sov somewhere. Doesn't this effect your allies such as white noise (Russian Federation) as well?
This change affects everyone, even alliances like PL which makes most of its isk carebearing the hell out of sov space with spy alts (especially those within NC since they're the current target).
We get ganked by cloaky gankers and caught in anoms just like everybody else - often by our own alliance no less, but we'll deal with it when the time comes and we welcome the change because it will make the game better in the long run.
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Carcusian
Global Criminal Countdown
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:24:00 -
[2099]
Originally by: Rothana Haldane Okay without all the sarcastic and stupid answers, Answer this.....Why are alliances like Ncdot and PL all for this change?
That line of questioning is as illuminating as asking why all those against it are against it. Careful, you'll hurt yourself chasing your own tail.
Originally by: Rothana Haldane What People are more upset about I think is that CCP is not focusing on whats broke and focusing on something that really isn't broken.
What's broke for one player working as intended for another. The final arbiter is CCP.
Originally by: Rothana Haldane have not really seen many reasons why this change is a good thing from you guys
You should probably spend some time reading the last 70 pages. It's usually a good idea to read the posts in the thread you are posting in.
Originally by: Rothana Haldane
You seem to do allot of that.
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:41:00 -
[2100]
Originally by: Messy BeaverStop the ganking unarmed ill fitted pve ship bull****. Hostiles enter your space you should be in a pvp ship end of. If you are one of the unsung logistic heroes in your alliance then you should be safed up until the bad men leave or are chased/killed by your pvp'ers.
CCP should not be the ones to give you the tools to defend your space, that responisbility relies solely on your alliance. If you can't defend said space then you shouldn't have it. Maybe you should join gangs when the intel channels report hostiles instead of taking the jack attitude and carrying on with your isk grinding. Shame on your CEO for recruiting you.
Rage all you want, but my points still stand. And I wonder whether you have ever lived in nullsec, because if you did, you would know that intel channels are by no means 100% secure and you would also know that the nearest PVP ship might not be in the system you are currently carebearing in. Hence travel time etc. But thank you for informing me what I *SHOULD* do.
This change will not mean more PVP, it will mean less PVP. So in your twisted mind I should be thankful for this change, since then I can sit in my Bear ship all day.
Now, about defending space...why shouldnt the defender get an advantage? I mean, a roving band of bad guys can spent all their iskies on leeet PVP fits and the defending alliance has to content with the upkeep of a lot stuff. Also the invaders have the element of suprise. Even with 100% acurate intel, the defenders still need to get into PVP ships, get fleet organised etc. So an advantage in the form of rapid travel isnt as bad as you might think.
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RLCHANCE
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:56:00 -
[2101]
Hay update low sec! screw 0.0!!
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.14 15:59:00 -
[2102]
Originally by: Rumpelstilski
The cowardly cloaking gankers (that were, btw, bold enough to jump normal stargates to your base of operations to give you grief) are providing you with content in the forms of pumping adrenaline, free targets without the need of jumping too many gates and are doing your alliance a favor by weeding out the lame and the stupid, much like Mittani said on another forum:
It seems you think ganking is indeed interesting and fun PVP. In that we differ then. Ofcourse no-one would pass up on a target of opportunity, but to consider ganking pve ships leet or fun, I dunno. But you are entitled to your opinion. Like I said, I rather die in a fair fight, where the enemy truly outskilled me. Then I will write "GF" in local and we both had fun (and some tears for me, but yeah...). CCP should focus on bringing that kind of PVP to nullsec instead of randomly adjusting stuff.
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:00:00 -
[2103]
Originally by: Madcapnl Rage all you want, but my points still stand. And I wonder whether you have ever lived in nullsec, because if you did, you would know that intel channels are by no means 100% secure and you would also know that the nearest PVP ship might not be in the system you are currently carebearing in. Hence travel time etc. But thank you for informing me what I *SHOULD* do.
If ONLY players could have some kind of for all practical purposes invulnerable structures in space where they could leave their pvp assets only a warp away so they could reship once hostiles enter your area.... :dreaming:
You, my friend, will be the first they put against the wall when the revolution comes.
Originally by: Madcapnl Now, about defending space...why shouldnt the defender get an advantage?
You mean something in the lines of intel, numbers, active titans, jump bridges, clones, reship time, docking, cyno beacons, fleet composition, supercaps in cyno jammed systems, allies and safe POSes?
Sure, but the current system is a bit extreme, wouldn't you agree?
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:02:00 -
[2104]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 16:03:44
Originally by: Madcapnl It seems you think ganking is indeed interesting and fun PVP. In that we differ then. Ofcourse no-one would pass up on a target of opportunity, but to consider ganking pve ships leet or fun, I dunno. But you are entitled to your opinion. Like I said, I rather die in a fair fight, where the enemy truly outskilled me. Then I will write "GF" in local and we both had fun (and some tears for me, but yeah...). CCP should focus on bringing that kind of PVP to nullsec instead of randomly adjusting stuff.
I said no such thing, ofc.
Cloaky ganking, chill camping, jumping 60 jumps to catch an odd friggie jumping, it's boring as hell. But the tears you get from your forum later, now that... That makes it all worthwhile.
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Bizmarhk
Mafia Redux
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:10:00 -
[2105]
Changes in this direction are long overdue.
Some of you newcomers don't realize there was a time when there weren't any jump bridges at all. It gave Eve a greater sense of openess, and created interesting challenges for the inhabitants of 0.0. Having someone "in your pipe" was actually a challenge to counter, especially if it was a small, and agile gang. The way it has been for years now is, "oh someone is in the pipe get the JB x, and if they move towards this area use JB y." No matter what the aggressor does, the home team has a terribly unfair advantage.
And I don't want to see some kind of rebutal of "oh well we live there so of course we should have an advantage." No, you shouldn't. 0.0 is supposed to be a cold hard place, not some kind of space where you jump into the first 0.0, hit up a JB or dock in your station because most alliances have a station now in the 0.0 entry, then skip over 15 jumps in the matter of two using JBs.
CCP good job. Really would like to see JBs gone all together though.
MFRX (Mafia Redux) Recruiting PvPers specialized in small gang warfare. |
Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:15:00 -
[2106]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 16:20:15
Originally by: Madcapnl Maybe you want us to put a free unarmed hauler in every system for you to shoot as "game content".
It's something to put before shamis if Tribute falls, I'm sure there's an agreement between reasonable people to be had.
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Madcapnl
The Rising Stars -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:25:00 -
[2107]
Originally by: Bizmarhk Changes in this direction are long overdue.
Some of you newcomers don't realize there was a time when there weren't any jump bridges at all. It gave Eve a greater sense of openess, and created interesting challenges for the inhabitants of 0.0. Having someone "in your pipe" was actually a challenge to counter, especially if it was a small, and agile gang. The way it has been for years now is, "oh someone is in the pipe get the JB x, and if they move towards this area use JB y." No matter what the aggressor does, the home team has a terribly unfair advantage.
And I don't want to see some kind of rebutal of "oh well we live there so of course we should have an advantage." No, you shouldn't. 0.0 is supposed to be a cold hard place, not some kind of space where you jump into the first 0.0, hit up a JB or dock in your station because most alliances have a station now in the 0.0 entry, then skip over 15 jumps in the matter of two using JBs.
CCP good job. Really would like to see JBs gone all together though.
My last post in this thread, since we are gonna disagree anyway and CCP will do whatever they please anyway, until they realise subscribers rates are going down (or not; thats yet to see). You say 0.0 is "supposed to be a cold hard place". Why? Because you say so or because it creates content or CCP wants it or what?
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Rumpelstilski
Caldari Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:38:00 -
[2108]
Edited by: Rumpelstilski on 14/05/2011 16:44:23
Originally by: Madcapnl My last post in this thread, since we are gonna disagree anyway and CCP will do whatever they please anyway, until they realise subscribers rates are going down (or not; thats yet to see). You say 0.0 is "supposed to be a cold hard place". Why? Because you say so or because it creates content or CCP wants it or what?
Eve's main selling point when compared to the swarm of other mmorpgs is that it's most hard core of all mmorpgs, the player drama, the high stakes, the dangers and riches of 0.0, the adrenaline, the anguish and the gloating, the rise and fall of great empires, that is what generates content that CCP in turn uses to attract new players and to fuel ambition and obsession in current players.
You, my friend, are generating player content as we speak and I'm most grateful.
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Messy Beaver
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Posted - 2011.05.14 16:49:00 -
[2109]
Originally by: Madcapnl Rage all you want, but my points still stand. And I wonder whether you have ever lived in nullsec, because if you did, you would know that intel channels are by no means 100% secure and you would also know that the nearest PVP ship might not be in the system you are currently carebearing in. Hence travel time etc. But thank you for informing me what I *SHOULD* do.
This change will not mean more PVP, it will mean less PVP. So in your twisted mind I should be thankful for this change, since then I can sit in my Bear ship all day.
Now, about defending space...why shouldnt the defender get an advantage? I mean, a roving band of bad guys can spent all their iskies on leeet PVP fits and the defending alliance has to content with the upkeep of a lot stuff. Also the invaders have the element of suprise. Even with 100% acurate intel, the defenders still need to get into PVP ships, get fleet organised etc. So an advantage in the form of rapid travel isnt as bad as you might think.
Small/medium well skilled alliances used to be able to disrupt the day to day events of the larger alliances. The trade off was that they couldn't really threaten the sov of these larger alliances. Their best hope was to cause weeks of atrition and hope the alliance would failcascade.
Then CCP made some changes to the game, along with the more is best attitude it totally destroyed the smaller alliances ability to take, hold space(with the exception of pets) or disrupt larger alliances. Now CCP have started to readdress the balance, the larger alliances still have the numbers but hopefully with future changes after this proposed one the smaller alliances will again have some sort of say.
You do have advantages, you have scouts on your entry systems, free repair stations, clones, reshipping, you still have jump bridges, intel channels. If you don't think these advantages are enough then it is because you truly are awful at this game.
Oh and if you guys really wanted pvp, what's to stop you having campaigns against your allies in between conflicts on a no sov basis.Or install a smaller entity purely for pvp rather than letting in useless pets(that's your alliance btw) Why don't you just admit it? you want to grind isk and be left alone. I'd have more respect for you if you did. |
ssgt slaughter
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Posted - 2011.05.14 17:31:00 -
[2110]
cp fallout has taken a huge step with his hasty decision. great now logistics are going to be a nightmare for who oh the players who supply jita with building materails awesome. we can use capital ships you say. great idea but cap ships are race specific fuels of which are not evenly distributed throughout eve really smart. jump bridges were intially introduced for another reason than defense. speed of logistics it will now take a millemium of time to travel from deeper areas of null to markets lets face the fact more time higher costs. maybe now the null sec regional alliances will unite and set up thier own market heads and bleed jita dry of resources once and for all. seems to me a resonable response to a unreasonable nerf. oh for all of you pvpers which i enjoy pvp what does this all mean for you? you wont be smiling when the ships you lose in combat become twice exspensive to buy and you have to travel all over hells acres to get them.ccp fallout im sure didnt think this through for more than an hour before he came up with this awesome plan.
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major hannah
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Posted - 2011.05.14 17:50:00 -
[2111]
i love this ssgt slaughter guy finally a idea to kill the scum in jita.
null sec untie the battle cry is
BLEED JITA DRY
lets put it onto ccp to scramble to save thier prescious jita
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.14 19:33:00 -
[2112]
Originally by: major hannah i love this ssgt slaughter guy finally a idea to kill the scum in jita.
null sec untie the battle cry is
BLEED JITA DRY
lets put it onto ccp to scramble to save thier prescious jita
I'm pretty sure CCP would be delighted to see Jita's trade hub function dispersed. I too wish you the very best of luck with this endeavour.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Ryan Starwing
Gallente Cryptonym Sleepers Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.14 20:39:00 -
[2113]
Force projection is done with supercaps which uses cyno's not jb, and for moving subcaps fleets there is this realy cool thing called a titan bridge which is used for any real force projection fleet; this lets you drop off the fleet anywere within bridge range or onto another titan for those extra long distance fights.
For alliance level logistics there is this thing called jump frieghters which can cyno around their stuffs. If a regular frieghter is needed then a titan bridge will be used for it.
All this realy does is for the adverage person you need to have a scout in a combate frig, or train for caps and cyno around. People should be watching intel anyways in case the jb is camped by those hit and run stealth bombers which sometimes use a high speed saber to bubble bridge (cant jump if pointed or bubbled) and gtfo before pos locks them.
This is more of a sub cap nerf for lower sp players in null. Yay for super spam.
PS:To make this effective remove supers, cap ships, jump freighters, and anything jump to a cyno or make a bridge from the game.
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ssgt slaughter
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Posted - 2011.05.14 21:28:00 -
[2114]
yes the jump freighter logistics scenario. of which a recent exploit has been discovered and ccp is currently investigating. thanks for bringing up the topic. ccp needs to fix the game before they keep making foolish changes that will have hurendous effects on the player base.
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HolyNerfBatman
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Posted - 2011.05.15 00:46:00 -
[2115]
Originally by: Ryan Starwing Force projection is done with supercaps which uses cyno's not jb, and for moving subcaps fleets there is this realy cool thing called a titan bridge which is used for any real force projection fleet; this lets you drop off the fleet anywere within bridge range or onto another titan for those extra long distance fights.
For alliance level logistics there is this thing called jump frieghters which can cyno around their stuffs. If a regular frieghter is needed then a titan bridge will be used for it.
All this realy does is for the adverage person you need to have a scout in a combate frig, or train for caps and cyno around. People should be watching intel anyways in case the jb is camped by those hit and run stealth bombers which sometimes use a high speed saber to bubble bridge (cant jump if pointed or bubbled) and gtfo before pos locks them.
This is more of a sub cap nerf for lower sp players in null. Yay for super spam.
PS:To make this effective remove supers, cap ships, jump freighters, and anything jump to a cyno or make a bridge from the game.
Cry more.
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Glyken Touchon
Independent Alchemists
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Posted - 2011.05.15 01:03:00 -
[2116]
What bothers me about this is the rush. Would it really have hurt to give a month or so's notice for people to make the changes required?
As to the change itself, yes, it's a downgrade of JB. I wouldn't really call it a nerf though. They are still a massive advantage.
As to comments about wrecking the sandbox, what can you do now that this change will prevent?
- Having to use a jumpgate between 2 of your own systems isn't preventing anything.
- Cap ships can get around without JB anyway
so, the only thing prevented is getting jump-capable ships in to a jammed system. (Even this can be worked around)
Would be interesting to hear the logic behind the JF decision though- I'd have thought that it would be better to keep consistency by using the same exclusion list as gates.
When it comes to any mechanic/rule, use of words like "except" and "unless" should be minimised to avoid complication, especially any ones that affect newer players.
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Kiyohime Ronuken
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Posted - 2011.05.15 01:49:00 -
[2117]
The problem with trying to re-empower the 'little guys' is that by now the truly 'big' guys are large enough that a change like this will be annoying at most.
Caps can still go pretty much wherever - I see more beacons and jammer cycling in the future. Funny - I thought this was just the kind of annoyance JBs were made to overcome.
Caps using fuel this way will be harder on ice miners. Because... you know - they needed their teeth kicked further down their collective necks.
Subcaps can still go wherever, too. The result of this for the bigger alliances is 2 adjacent systems will be found for bridges. You'll jump into a system that's got its gates bubbled (dozens, maybe hundreds) except for one stargate. Fleet that jumps in takes that stargate to a convenient adjacent system. It too is bubbled like mad. Warp to JB - pOoF and you're on your way.
The really big alliances (with Titans) may also generally stay more confined to corp's 'home' systems BUT when they need to move in force, light a beacon, cycle a jammer and bridge over the fleet needed.
I'm still looking for the advantage for the little guy. If you think the advantage is that they can now go to the heart of these big alliances and gate camp.... well. Good luck with that.
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frivolous
Reikoku
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Posted - 2011.05.15 06:04:00 -
[2118]
Edited by: frivolous on 15/05/2011 06:05:28 Nice work CCP, these changes almost have me wanting to renew my accounts (almost).
Now remove local in 0.0 and I will re-sub and so will many many others.
edit - NC tears DELICIOUS
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.15 09:08:00 -
[2119]
I love this thread.
This signature is brought to you by Nvidia(tm) |
Selnix
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.15 09:42:00 -
[2120]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships.
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Grimpak
Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Frontline Assembly Point
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Posted - 2011.05.15 11:06:00 -
[2121]
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships.
do that and change the bonus from 5% to 3% then. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.15 12:47:00 -
[2122]
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships.
Why? I for one believe the T2 ships which require more training by the way, should be better at their intended roles than a T3 or Faction cruiser. ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.
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NotTheSmartestCookie
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Posted - 2011.05.15 13:07:00 -
[2123]
Originally by: FellRaven ... ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.
In the NC the blob is the substitute for skill (points).
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Don Kartel
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Posted - 2011.05.15 13:16:00 -
[2124]
These changes are proof that CCP comes up with ideas and just throws them into the game.
Seriously do you think 7 days is a fair amount of time for alliances to reconfigure their infrastructure ?
An advanced network infrastructure upgrade requires a level 3 strategic index which if not present requires 35 days to gain. Does your 7 days still seem reasonable ?
How are you going to rebalance the cost of having these upgrades ?
You have just reduced the benefits by 50% so are you going to reduce the cost also in a similar manner.
What about upgrades that are fitted in iHubs which are now obsolete ?
Alliances are going to have to change systems which means buy new ihubs and buy new upgrades because the current mechanics will not allow the removal of already installed upgrades. Can alliance petition instead to have these removed ?
Clearly there is alot here the CCP game designers and developers never thought about and this suprises me because it just shows how little they either know about their own game or care about the consequnces of the chages they make.
This also all points to the fact CCP don't really plan the deployment but rather just throw changes in willy nilly. Look at the anomalies changes. I don't think that even came close to having its desired effect.
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Spartan dax
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Posted - 2011.05.15 13:40:00 -
[2125]
Originally by: Don Kartel Seriously do you think 7 days is a fair amount of time for alliances to reconfigure their infrastructure ?
They clearly don't as that particular change won't occur for another month.
Have a tissue and calm down. The sky isn't falling.
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Selnix
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.15 13:49:00 -
[2126]
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Furb Killer Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode.
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships.
Why? I for one believe the T2 ships which require more training by the way, should be better at their intended roles than a T3 or Faction cruiser. ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.
By your reasoning a Kronos should perform better than a Vindicator, a Vagabond should perform better than a Cynabal and a Keres should be able to stomp all over a Firetail. Just because a ship requires a different skill set does not mean it should necessarily be superior. There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen that we don't all fly T1 insured BCs and BS in blobs of 3-500........
Guess I forgot what fleet mentality you subscribed to for a minute there.
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Don Kartel
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Posted - 2011.05.15 13:57:00 -
[2127]
Originally by: Spartan dax
Originally by: Don Kartel Seriously do you think 7 days is a fair amount of time for alliances to reconfigure their infrastructure ?
They clearly don't as that particular change won't occur for another month.
Have a tissue and calm down. The sky isn't falling.
Even so this still requires more than 1 months warning.
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Don Kartel
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Posted - 2011.05.15 14:01:00 -
[2128]
Edited by: Don Kartel on 15/05/2011 14:01:20
Originally by: NotTheSmartestCookie
Originally by: FellRaven ... ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.
In the NC the blob is the substitute for skill (points).
In the DRF / PL / RAIDEN ETC bots are the substitute for active players. Spend a few hours in the south every system has botting characters. You can bet if CCP actually posted information about the many bots have been found in each alliance the top would be either WN or the botting alliance called white angels. WRENT currently consists of about 90% botters.
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FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.15 14:34:00 -
[2129]
Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:36:20
Originally by: Selnix Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode - Original post
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)- Soundwave
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships. -Selnix
Why? I for one believe the T2 ships which require more training by the way, should be better at their intended roles than a T3 or Faction cruiser. ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.- Fellraven
By your reasoning a Kronos should perform better than a Vindicator, a Vagabond should perform better than a Cynabal and a Keres should be able to stomp all over a Firetail. Just because a ship requires a different skill set does not mean it should necessarily be superior. There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen that we don't all fly T1 insured BCs and BS in blobs of 3-500........
Guess I forgot what fleet mentality you subscribed to for a minute there.
And there has to be a reason to train all those skill necessary to fly T2. To re-quote you "There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen"
So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.
Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion they gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand top lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.
They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can bet a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.
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Fiberton
StarFleet Enterprises -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.05.15 15:21:00 -
[2130]
Yea they are quite terrible at that. They also are terrible at mechanics spelled out directly. Look at Super Carriers.
" Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare "
Yet You can ECM burst a SC and break its lock. With about 7 of them keep it from ever locking. /Ship Equipment/ Electronic Warfare / ECM Bursts
What is so complicated about " ALL FORMS "
So CCP WTF does ALL mean to you ?
Just saying.
Originally by: Glyken Touchon
When it comes to any mechanic/rule, use of words like "except" and "unless" should be minimised to avoid complication, especially any ones that affect newer players.
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Ignatius Glick
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Posted - 2011.05.15 15:26:00 -
[2131]
nullsec has sucked for awhile because of this crap.. get rid of em all imo.
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Quartex
Gallente Roving Guns Inc. RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.15 16:38:00 -
[2132]
This thread has become roaming merc band and RMT DRF (who actually post on other servers) versus dispersed settled space holders NC. CCP; I feel sorry for you having to set policy against the clamour of tribalism and chest beating!
If you want nulsec to be un-settled and a wild frontier (like it used to be when I started playing) then keep going, as this is the right direction of travel for policy to be going to achieve that.
This is a gameplay balance victory for nulsec roamers over settlers, just be sure in your own minds that this is what you want be open and honest about it and recognise that you had built a game to date that rewarded the settlers; patch by patch you are un-doing something here and shouldn't be surprised at the outcry, especially from those most successful at doing it over the last few years.
I urge you to remove local in nulsec too but add in jackpot rewards for individual pilots, to help keep nulsec populations up (for hunters and hirers).
As always, people will adapt and some of the responses on both sides of the argument in this thread are mischievous and (you know who you are) amount to a bit of metagaming. Not surprising considering a war is on right now and the games biggest coalition will find it harder to defend its settled space, as a result and could do without the distraction. :-)
And....
I miss the days when Supers didn't exist, or were rare and wonderous things but this does make defending a caught Super more difficult. Everyone burn to X, you'll know the target when you get there!
This change will also reward clever 24/7 coverage recruitment.
Hurry up and get the rest of your balance changes in though, or at least talk about them so people can decide what to do next...
|
Marconus Orion
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 16:46:00 -
[2133]
Originally by: FellRaven Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:39:13 Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:38:02 Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:36:58 Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:36:20
Originally by: Selnix Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode - Original post
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)- Soundwave
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships. -Selnix
Why? I for one believe the T2 ships which require more training by the way, should be better at their intended roles than a T3 or Faction cruiser. ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.- Fellraven
By your reasoning a Kronos should perform better than a Vindicator, a Vagabond should perform better than a Cynabal and a Keres should be able to stomp all over a Firetail. Just because a ship requires a different skill set does not mean it should necessarily be superior. There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen that we don't all fly T1 insured BCs and BS in blobs of 3-500........
Guess I forgot what fleet mentality you subscribed to for a minute there.
And there has to be a reason to train all those skill necessary to fly T2. To re-quote you "There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen"
So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.
Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion the gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand to lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.
They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can better a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.
You are dumb.
|
FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 18:28:00 -
[2134]
Originally by: Marconus Orion
Originally by: FellRaven Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:39:13 Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:38:02 Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:36:58 Edited by: FellRaven on 15/05/2011 14:36:20
Originally by: Selnix Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode - Original post
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)- Soundwave
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships. -Selnix
Why? I for one believe the T2 ships which require more training by the way, should be better at their intended roles than a T3 or Faction cruiser. ISK should not be a substitute for skill points.- Fellraven
By your reasoning a Kronos should perform better than a Vindicator, a Vagabond should perform better than a Cynabal and a Keres should be able to stomp all over a Firetail. Just because a ship requires a different skill set does not mean it should necessarily be superior. There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen that we don't all fly T1 insured BCs and BS in blobs of 3-500........
Guess I forgot what fleet mentality you subscribed to for a minute there.
And there has to be a reason to train all those skill necessary to fly T2. To re-quote you "There has to be a reason for people to want to commit their shiny expensive toys to a fight and a perceived advantage that you can gain from that ship is the only reason aside from Epeen"
So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.
Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion the gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand to lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.
They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can better a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.
You are dumb.
But at least I can offer a reasoned argument.
|
DahMainMan
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 19:59:00 -
[2135]
Edited by: DahMainMan on 15/05/2011 20:00:19 you think its about null?? you think its about anything other than more gtc's for ccp? if you think this is for the players..or the game, you are wrong..dead ass wrong!
here ill make it easy for yah, more chance of death=more gtcs sold or bought by the players=more money in ccps pockets..period.
face it, ccp just w***ed up big time.
way to go. btw i havent used a jb in many years. however if you make the alliance have to fule it..support it and THEN act like its a feckin cake walk for said persons... shows how detached from your player base/game you guys rly are.
all in all, just die and buy more gtc's for ccp to get yet more money. <====THE IS THE TRUTH! PERIOD! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!! |
Panda Name
Amarr Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 21:52:00 -
[2136]
Originally by: DahMainMan Edited by: DahMainMan on 15/05/2011 20:00:19 you think its about null?? you think its about anything other than more gtc's for ccp? if you think this is for the players..or the game, you are wrong..dead ass wrong!
here ill make it easy for yah, more chance of death=more gtcs sold or bought by the players=more money in ccps pockets..period.
face it, ccp just w***ed up big time.
way to go. btw i havent used a jb in many years. however if you make the alliance have to fule it..support it and THEN act like its a feckin cake walk for said persons... shows how detached from your player base/game you guys rly are.
all in all, just die and buy more gtc's for ccp to get yet more money. <====THE IS THE TRUTH! PERIOD! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!
so you're saying that you are really bad at this game, and have to resort to buying time cards for isk. looks like you can't hack it in 0.0, so please report to motsu. thanks for sharing, brah.
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SexxxSlave
|
Posted - 2011.05.15 23:35:00 -
[2137]
Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 00:35:00 -
[2138]
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
What is wrong with 18 alliances interconnecting 11 regions to form a state of risk free logistics and power projection Zen?
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Perinol
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 00:44:00 -
[2139]
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
So ?
They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.
I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.
Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.
|
Selnix
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 01:32:00 -
[2140]
Originally by: FellRaven
Originally by: Selnix Well then at least we can agree on removing unprobable ships from the game, no more easy mode - Original post
No disagreement there. I'm pretty sure you'll get your wish too :)- Soundwave
Dearest Soundwave,
While I do love that you have finally chosen to give people reason to use those stargate thingers that the art department made us new models for a while back, please do make a couple of changes to the Warfare Processor subsystems for Tech III Cruisers before you remove unprobability.
- Role Bonus: 99% reductin in Warfare Link module CPU need. Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously.
- Subsystem Skill Bonus: 7.5% bonus to all Shield(Minmatar & Caldari)/Armor(Gallente & Amarr) resistances per level
I see no reason to not make them just as vulnerable to being probed down as any other ship, but if they are going to be put back in the battle where they belong it would be nice if they can fill their given role without mids full of command processors and lows full of co-procs. Let them tank like a Command Ship and get doomsday'd like command ships.
So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.
Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion the gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand to lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.
They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can better a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.
I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:
- I agree with the removal of unprobability. Read my first post.
- Even if CS have doubled in price, T3s cost double what they do
- When you attempt to argue that T3s can fill all roles, try finding fits that all utilize the same T2 rigs so you aren't destroying a couple hundred million isk in rigs every time you refit for a fleet.
- T3s are only faster than vagabonds when both fit ABs, otherwise they are relatively equal or the Vaga is faster.
- Covops have the same probing strength bonus of a T3, neither can fit more than 2 probing rigs, covops can also light covert cynos where a T3 can not
- Better tanks than BS is ambiguous as tank will always be proportionate to isk investment. Deadspace active tank Tengu can't touch Maelstrom or Golem so I don't see what you're on about.
- If 6-700 is a S-ton of DPS, then you are a fool. Raven with T1 torps can do that.
- 2% per level to Gang Link bonuses is not infinitely better than Command Ships.
- Check insurance payouts for T3s sometime br0
You want EVE to be a game of paper, paper, OMGWTFBSBLOB! What CCP likes is our current game of rock, paper, sciss0rz where you can potentially find more than one solution to a given situation and it does not always just come down to how many people can you get into ships they don't have a reason to care about losing.
|
|
Selnix
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 01:39:00 -
[2141]
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
So ?
They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.
I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.
Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.
All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.
|
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 02:10:00 -
[2142]
Originally by: Selnix I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:
- I agree with the removal of unprobability. Read my first post.
- Even if CS have doubled in price, T3s cost double what they do
- When you attempt to argue that T3s can fill all roles, try finding fits that all utilize the same T2 rigs so you aren't destroying a couple hundred million isk in rigs every time you refit for a fleet.
- T3s are only faster than vagabonds when both fit ABs, otherwise they are relatively equal or the Vaga is faster.
- Covops have the same probing strength bonus of a T3, neither can fit more than 2 probing rigs, covops can also light covert cynos where a T3 can not
- Better tanks than BS is ambiguous as tank will always be proportionate to isk investment. Deadspace active tank Tengu can't touch Maelstrom or Golem so I don't see what you're on about.
- If 6-700 is a S-ton of DPS, then you are a fool. Raven with T1 torps can do that.
- 2% per level to Gang Link bonuses is not infinitely better than Command Ships.
- Check insurance payouts for T3s sometime br0
You want EVE to be a game of paper, paper, OMGWTFBSBLOB! What CCP likes is our current game of rock, paper, sciss0rz where you can potentially find more than one solution to a given situation and it does not always just come down to how many people can you get into ships they don't have a reason to care about losing.
Don't forget that you lose skill points when you die in a T3.
|
Shepard Book
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 02:34:00 -
[2143]
Is 0.0 industry currently geared to support the population living there? ò Is the relationship between 0.0 and empire balanced well enough? ò Does the current sovereignty system meet our goals? ò Are there enough incentives for conflict/pvp outside sov? ò Are we happy with movement/player interaction? ò Does the plan for DUST 514 need changes?
I am glad you are saying this. I think we all know 0.0 is out of wack and needs improvement in all categories. BTW, what is the current plan for 514 and at this point are we looking at 2012 if we are lucky?
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Trader Jen
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 03:13:00 -
[2144]
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
So ?
They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.
I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.
Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.
see selnix's post...
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Alghara
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 07:26:00 -
[2145]
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
So ?
They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.
I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.
Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.
All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.
False.
The projection is still very simple. Ask to somebody to make a contract of one item where you would like to go (new form-up). When you have this item in the station change the station where you clone come back. Succid clone and it's ok. And carrier for logistics (ship).
They are not impact to the big battle for the big alliance. The impact will be more for small alliance or some place where they are not a lot of people to live.
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Selnix
Gallente North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 07:57:00 -
[2146]
Originally by: Alghara
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
So ?
They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.
I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.
Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.
All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.
False.
The projection is still very simple. Ask to somebody to make a contract of one item where you would like to go (new form-up). When you have this item in the station change the station where you clone come back. Succid clone and it's ok. And carrier for logistics (ship).
They are not impact to the big battle for the big alliance. The impact will be more for small alliance or some place where they are not a lot of people to live.
You seem to assume that you can clone in a station which your corporation has no offices. That assumption is a fallacy. Furthermore, it would require having ships for the entirety of said 2-500 person blob already fitted and awaiting them in the destination system.
In the future, before you start attempting to contradict people, check your facts and perhaps look into the game mechanics so you can base your argument on facts instead of assumptions.
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Resender
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 08:22:00 -
[2147]
I would agree with CCP that this would be good but under the current circumstances in this nerf could lead to nothing but misery Yes, JB weren't around in the early days but a lot has changed For one the population has grown exponentially; super capitals especially titans can serve as a bridge; lag is being used as a war strategy especially by the Russian alliances,PL and BoB's latest incarnations (no offence to the hard work of these alliances but there is some truth to it); we got T3 that can literally get to any system in game if they have interdiction nullifier and there pretty overpowered when they just have to intercept a mixed fleet; qwe got to make our own fuel and last and not least the new sov mechanics force people to concentrate on only a handful of systems cause it ridiculous expensive to hold sov over a small hand of systems that are of no value.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 09:03:00 -
[2148]
Originally by: Resender lag is being used as a war strategy especially by the Russian alliances,PL and BoB's latest incarnations (no offence to the hard work of these alliances but there is some truth to it)
This guy for real?
|
FellRaven
Minmatar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 09:22:00 -
[2149]
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: FellRaven
So why then should it be unprobable as that would appear to defeat your own argument. As it stands now T2 ship have more than doubled in price due to CCP changes, in addition faction ships and T3 are getting better bonuses.
Yes people are flying Dramiels and Cynabals instead of Crows and Vagabonds. In my opinion the gap between Faction and T2 should be smaller if indeed there should be one at all. As for T3 well they are a joke, instead of being jack of all trades they are masters of all trades and this seems just a tad overpowered to me. Sure they cost a lot more and in many configurations (excluding, Covert Ops Nullified and Unprobable)you stand to lose a lot but for my money they are too flexible and can perform too many roles better than other ships.
They are after all cruisers and they can have a better tanks than a BS, can be faster than a vaga, can better a specialist prober, can warp through bubbles, can have a **** ton of DPS, and you want then to be infinitely better than a Commandship too. Yes I know you have to use different sub-systems for each set-up but it's still way overpowered for the skills requirement.
I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:
- I agree with the removal of unprobability. Read my first post.
- Even if CS have doubled in price, T3s cost double what they do
- When you attempt to argue that T3s can fill all roles, try finding fits that all utilize the same T2 rigs so you aren't destroying a couple hundred million isk in rigs every time you refit for a fleet.
- T3s are only faster than vagabonds when both fit ABs, otherwise they are relatively equal or the Vaga is faster.
- Covops have the same probing strength bonus of a T3, neither can fit more than 2 probing rigs, covops can also light covert cynos where a T3 can not
- Better tanks than BS is ambiguous as tank will always be proportionate to isk investment. Deadspace active tank Tengu can't touch Maelstrom or Golem so I don't see what you're on about.
- If 6-700 is a S-ton of DPS, then you are a fool. Raven with T1 torps can do that.
- 2% per level to Gang Link bonuses is not infinitely better than Command Ships.
- Check insurance payouts for T3s sometime br0
You want EVE to be a game of paper, paper, OMGWTFBSBLOB! What CCP likes is our current game of rock, paper, sciss0rz where you can potentially find more than one solution to a given situation and it does not always just come down to how many people can you get into ships they don't have a reason to care about losing.
OK maybe I didn't explain myself well, so I'll try again. I wasn't arguing that a Single T3 hull can be reused to be the best at everything I was trying to make the point that by training T3 you could perform a multitude of roles to at least the same capabilities of the equivalent T2 role specific ship.
So instead of having to train Recons, HACs, Logistics, Command Ship you could choose to train T3. Yes you will have to training many of the roll specific skills to be effective but you wouldn't have to train Recon V, Battlecruiser V etc.
As regards the insurance payout t2 payouts are just a ****ty and the cost of T3 is in part determined by supply and demand, if people didn't want them (to give them an edge) they wouldn't cost as much.
Final you said you supported removing unprobability, true but you then asked for a major buff to allow T3s to run 3 Warfare processors!
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madmax 27
Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 10:13:00 -
[2150]
Thinking about quitting eve over this nerf?
Please contract all your assets to me if you are.
I also accept isk.
Thanks madmax 27 |
|
JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 10:16:00 -
[2151]
Originally by: Shepard Book IBTW, what is the current plan for 514 and at this point are we looking at 2012 if we are lucky?
Seeing as dust 514 is being released for consoles only, I would hope they aren't allocating devs to work on that as opposed to all the things that need attention in Eve.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:40:00 -
[2152]
Originally by: Incursion 1.5 Patch Notes The capabilities of the onboard scanner have been substantially increased. The range is now 64 AU and the delay to return results is only 10 seconds.
Things are looking up.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2011.05.16 11:46:00 -
[2153]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: Incursion 1.5 Patch Notes The capabilities of the onboard scanner have been substantially increased. The range is now 64 AU and the delay to return results is only 10 seconds.
Things are looking up.
Yeah I just posted that on our corp forums a little bit ago. I like these patch notes. ;) Funny part is the change that will remove agent quality from all agents in the game in that patch as well.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:01:00 -
[2154]
Originally by: Resender ....
Bridges were added to help with the mad logistics requirement of the POS based sovereignty system. They should have been killed off with Dominion, when POS no longer had that role, but someone dropped the ball. 1. Higher population means more able bodies to go on patrols. 2. Capitals are getting revised in near future, expect jump/bridge ranges to take a serious hit. 3. Lag has been used/abused by everyone involved in null, some just put in the effort to analysing its effects in order to be better than the enemy when it hits. 4. T3's are also likely to be revised in near future, some are godly while others rarely see starlight. If by "mixed fleet" you mean ****fit ratting ships, then yes they will die .. same as if you dropped a bunch of combat interceptors on them. 5. Still have Ice mining last I checked. Fuel from PI is an extra for people who have already scratched their eyes out in the belts. 6. Sovereignty is likely to be revised in the near future. Dominion had the exact opposite effect of what was intended with blobs increasing, expect price to be low for entry level sov with costs ballooning as you add systems.
PS: Kick your CSM rep to push CCP into getting the null industry revamp in place ASAP.
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Sabastian Cro
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:25:00 -
[2155]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave Edited by: CCP Soundwave on 10/05/2011 20:16:58
Originally by: Ship Type In eve, you apparently cannot avoid PVP if you want to play with friends.
The only way to avoid PVP is to stay in the NPC corps to avoid war decs, obviously avoid low sec, and now you must avoid null sec. Previously, people who were not into PVP could go to 0.0 and avoid it all for the most part.
This is also why almost every person I've asked to come play this game has said they didn't like it.
It should be difficult to avoid PVP in nullsec. Right now that's relatively easy due to jumpbridges being so convenient and easy to use. The downside is that nullsec, an area that should be our pvp flagship, is relatively boring and lifeless when it comes to pvp, apart from territorial conquests. Hopefully this will shake it up a bit and create more opportunity for pvp.
do you even look at your own game... seriously there is pvp to be had in 0.0 all the time, but i guess when people buy 20,000 gtc's ccp will do whatever they want for them... nice one. CCP once again bends over the player base who liked that part of the game. no pat on the back from me!
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.16 12:44:00 -
[2156]
Originally by: Selnix
Originally by: Perinol
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
So ?
They put the time an effort in to create that. Then time an effort to fuel it. Good for them.
I would have built less JB's an got some more supercaps to defend it all.
Has all those JB's made the NC unbeatable ? The current situation would suggest not.
All of those Jump Bridges, while not making the NC completely invulnerable, has made it simply impossible for small entities in EVE to have a chance of carving out a little place in space for themselves without becoming pawns of a larger Alliance. Speaking hypothetically, should a small group who could match numbers with the people in Fountain have tried to launch an invasion, the NC and other allies of the residents would simply have hopped in gang, Jump Bridged across EVE over the course of an hour or less and simply curbstomped the crap outta the little guys then hopped right home with little or no effort. In an EVE without Jump Bridges, force projection of that type would require a commitment to either take the fight across the map or stay at home to defend the castle. Making power blocs harder to run logistically is a good thing in terms of opening up 0.0 to the little Empire pubbies that may want to come be targets for those of us who could care less about holding sov.
Changing JB's isn't going to help small groups get into 0.0 any more than completely removing them. It will take a little longer to do the curb stomping but they will never the less get kicked out. There is no way a 100 man corp is going to survive holding sov in the same region is a 3000 man alliance. They'll be used for killboard padding until they run out of ISK or decide they've had enough. No mechanics change will alter that.
Surely in that respect that is what EVE is all about, making friends, making corps, alliances, mutual protection agreements, mercenary alliances etc.
What EVE probably needs is: More space to hold SOV in; that is of no attraction to large organisation but attractive to small ones. More natural barriers to expansion of organisation (could be worked into the above), not stupid short term mechanic changes. Reasons for the big alliances not to curb stomp the small ones.
Remember also that if these changes mean the large coalitions get broken up eventually, some of you guys in merc corps won't be getting those large contracts any more, the ISK won't be there (won't be there anyway now DRF can't bot) nor will the customers.
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Ogogov
Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:25:00 -
[2157]
Originally by: Selnix
I shall now dub myself Glenn Beck... Arguing with Idiots:
If you honestly believe that you have that the right way around then it tells us everything we need to know both regarding the quality of your character and your cognitive ability.
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Ghurthe
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Posted - 2011.05.16 13:39:00 -
[2158]
I see alot of comments on unscannable set ups. Is this confirmed? Or just something rumored?
I'd love for my freshly purchased Virtue Set to be even more useful. Even though I'd be upset that even more level 5s became totally worthless to run.
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2011.05.16 14:20:00 -
[2159]
It's a curious change for sure, on its own like this.
I understand the desire for a change in JBs and I think the 'ships with jump engines won't be able to use 'em (bar BO)' change could be implemented today.
The 1 JB per system though, is one that really should be including in a larger 0.0 tweak package.. Setting up posses is horribly annoying work, redesigning routes will probably not be a fun fun fun session either.
I've tried null sec quite a few times, even in the old days. The trouble now is the imbalance of certain ship types.. Supercap hotdrops are just so easy. Logistics titans as owned by many larger entities make sure this nerf doesn't hit them half as hard. Cloakers, unprobable t3's, ships that ignore bubbles, insta lock recons etc, make for very scary normal player transports.
Now on the one hand, I feel it doesn't hurt to make single player stuff more scary, it does however make it less interesting (again) to go to null sec unless you're in a power house huge/blob/well organized alliance. It also means that these targets will probably die out pretty soon, and you'll either find uncatchable roaming gangs (due to cloak/interdiction nullifier/etc) or huge blobs, or, small gangs with huge hotdrops available.
Yes, making null sec less safe, probably means more pvp in the short run. But a lot of this will be ganking and gate camping, which as far as pvp goes, are pretty low on the ladder for most people. Also, getting ganked or gate camped is about as fun as losing your ship in a lagfest and even less useful, so don't be surprised if after a month or two this tweak (again, on its own like this) actually lowers the amount of targets in null sec. Between the pve nerf and this one, I just can't imagine why any casual player would keep their pve-ing in null sec, iso just in high sec. And nerfing missions in high sec, while indeed lowering the incentive to make isk in high sec, would probably lead to people just leaving eve, something CCP most definitely does not want..
All in all, this change changes very little for people with many titans, promotes gate camping with cloaky/unprobable/hotdrop set ups, forces people to do everything in a manner that makes it even harder to get a fight, makes it harder for smaller gangs to move around (well harder, just more time consuming, again annoying mostly people that can only play a couple of hours) and does absolutely nothing to stop the nap fest way of null sec, in fact, it makes it more important to have loads of caps spare and hanging around, and, indeed just buffs supercaps.
Don't get me wrong, I'm going to spend a lot of time the next few months on my pvp char, ganking and gate camping, but I'll know I'm just pushing more and more people away and will be supercap hotdropped twice a week. For me it doesn't add up to the whole 'we want to improve 0.0' but hey, I don't live there anymore..
Ignore me
Drone Guide EON 21 & 22 |
Reidsol
Blood Covenant
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:13:00 -
[2160]
Originally by: knobber Jobbler Changing JB's isn't going to help small groups get into 0.0 any more than completely removing them.
U don't get the concept dude. It's about forcing small gang pvp where u don't have to go 70 jumps for 5-6 kills, and sov holders have to do some more than blobbing up for a sbu kill if they want "safe" place to live.
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knobber Jobbler
Executive Intervention Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2011.05.16 15:46:00 -
[2161]
Originally by: Reidsol
Originally by: knobber Jobbler Changing JB's isn't going to help small groups get into 0.0 any more than completely removing them.
U don't get the concept dude. It's about forcing small gang pvp where u don't have to go 70 jumps for 5-6 kills, and sov holders have to do some more than blobbing up for a sbu kill if they want "safe" place to live.
It was a response to someones comment that it will help small groups get thier own SOV in 0.0. I think it might help small gang PVP a little but what needs to be understood is the large coalitions have several thousand active players on at any time, in many different systems and no FC really turns people down for fights when he has so many willing.
As soon as any credible threat, especially composed of those flying expensive ships are put over intel channels then the people who don't want to fight dock up or go elsewhere and those that do want a fight form and go squash them. Removing a few JB's will just slow them up a little but won't affect the numbers who'll turn up.
I think the risk v reward thing in 0.0 escapes people as well. Look at the NC vs DRF. At least two NC alliances have lost everything, rather than just a couple of ships. The reward was huge JB networks and good places to rat, the risk is they could and have lost everything. Billions of ISK in ships and infrastructure. 0.0 appears to be working just fine in that respect.
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WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.16 16:29:00 -
[2162]
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Originally by: SexxxSlave Still think theres nothing wrong with the current iteration of Jump Bridges and that they DONT need to be nerfed?
Take a look at this, maybe you'll change your mind.
Current NC Jump Bridge Map
What is wrong with 18 alliances interconnecting 11 regions to form a state of risk free logistics and power projection Zen?
I pity you and your alliance if you can't use that map to bring maximum gankage upon your foes. (I'm as fluffy as they come and even I see obvious choke points.)
Although don't feel too bad, it seems CCP Soundwave can't either, so you're in.... well you're in his company at least. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Vince Draken
D00M. Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:31:00 -
[2163]
Intresting to see its only NC moaning in this thread out of all the 0.0 Alliances / Groups of dudes.
Carebear heaven shall be no longer AS safe as it is now, All we need now is remove cyno jammers + becons and... Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D
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Woodywilson
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:41:00 -
[2164]
Originally by: Vince Draken Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D
I too welcome the removal of T3 ships and moms.
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Woodywilson
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Posted - 2011.05.16 17:45:00 -
[2165]
Originally by: Reidsol
Originally by: knobber Jobbler It's about forcing small gang pvp
Looks like the neighborhood cat has altered your concept of a sandbox...
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari draketrain Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.05.16 21:04:00 -
[2166]
I am currently happy 0.0 dweller.
However.
This blog makes me ask how is CCP (hopefully with happy help from players and CSM) going to improve low sec and npc 0.0 in same way than "ordinary" 0.0
I think currently low sec is in need of even bigger overhaul than 0.0
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Taizho Traumeel
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Posted - 2011.05.17 00:55:00 -
[2167]
CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?
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Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:12:00 -
[2168]
I thought that JB in every other system and 20 large bubbles on every gate are working as intended.
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Rebnok
Body Count Inc. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.05.17 01:54:00 -
[2169]
:hi5: ccp The only thing im running is my mouth |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 07:57:00 -
[2170]
Originally by: Taizho Traumeel CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?
Go on, please do tell us all how having to make 2 warps between jump bridges instead of one is "really screwing" logistics.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
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Kandarus
Minmatar Lyonesse. Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 08:40:00 -
[2171]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Taizho Traumeel CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?
Go on, please do tell us all how having to make 2 warps between jump bridges instead of one is "really screwing" logistics.
I guess obvious math is not so obvious... Multiply x by 2 and you will see the difference. Not to mention ALL fine jb networks have to re-planned and setup. These guys seriously put more thought into these endeavors then it seems *insert company name here* about *insert game here*.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Northern Coalition.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 10:12:00 -
[2172]
Originally by: Kandarus
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Taizho Traumeel CCP screwing 0.0 again. I hope your patch breaks the servers and you have to spend all day/night fixing it. What will you take away from us next? You are really screwing logistics in 0.0. I am not sure why. Have you given reasons why?
Go on, please do tell us all how having to make 2 warps between jump bridges instead of one is "really screwing" logistics.
I guess obvious math is not so obvious... Multiply x by 2 and you will see the difference. Not to mention ALL fine jb networks have to re-planned and setup. These guys seriously put more thought into these endeavors then it seems *insert company name here* about *insert game here*.
Your whining is absolutely delicious.
This signature is brought to you by Nvidia(tm) |
Zan Atropus
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Posted - 2011.05.17 11:03:00 -
[2173]
While you are at changing the cap of JB's in a solar system, you should really do the same to CSAA's. At the moment setting up one CSAA is very costly, and basically it just becomes a lot cheaper the more you add, cause the Cyno Jammer defends more CSAA's and in terms of logistics you only ever need one logistic plan to support one or more CSAA's up until the point where you have use up all the moons in the system.
Add a cap for anchored/onlined CSAA's set it to 4 personally i would rather want it at 2 but there will be way to much whine about it. Hopefully this could help put a stop to the insane amount of super caps that are being build.
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xsnakebytex
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 11:48:00 -
[2174]
CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.
This change will cause a lot of gate camps, and moving ships and fleets around EVE to engage eachother will take longer.
I guess we can all look forward to supers being used even more.
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Cantina Pinata
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Posted - 2011.05.17 13:55:00 -
[2175]
For the whiners
1: "Adapt or die" 2: Being in 1 place for 7 years doesnt buy you ccp shares. In the end you paid for a few pixels. 3: You can always try WoW
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JT Black
Amarr WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.17 15:03:00 -
[2176]
CCP if this is the start of your 0.0 revision keep it up !
You lot got to confortable living like worms used to all sorts of safety behind your glass empires.
Nul sec should be hard not made easy . Learn to navigate as it was supposed to be, use the blessed gates . Not enought protection? Outposts,unlimited POS's ,sirens to warn you we are in local...local system chat being spammed by idiots who screaaamm for help and other things... You have your intel channels stop moaning bunch of wimps.
But no for you lot has to be 110% safety and no risk ! 100% profit only . Nerf them , Nerf them hard CCP and by the way nerf anomalies more and make all rats to scramble this army of ***g*ts ! Let them use the belts at their own leisure with their own " tweaks " ...
Looking at the amount of tears in this post this has the desired effect !
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 15:46:00 -
[2177]
Originally by: xsnakebytex CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.
This change will cause a lot of gate camps, and moving ships and fleets around EVE to engage eachother will take longer.
I guess we can all look forward to supers being used even more.
Right, because it's not like CCP just said that supers are on the "rebalance" shortlist or anything
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
xsnakebytex
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:12:00 -
[2178]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: xsnakebytex CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.
This change will cause a lot of gate camps, and moving ships and fleets around EVE to engage eachother will take longer.
I guess we can all look forward to supers being used even more.
Right, because it's not like CCP just said that supers are on the "rebalance" shortlist or anything
Anything else you would like to contribute?
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El'Niaga
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.05.17 16:15:00 -
[2179]
Originally by: Cantina Pinata For the whiners
1: "Adapt or die" 2: Being in 1 place for 7 years doesnt buy you ccp shares. In the end you paid for a few pixels. 3: You can always try WoW
Its attitudes like this expressed by the Devs and their focus groups in SWG that led to the massive collapse of the game after the NGE. Today they remove or affect something that doesn't bother you but because of narrow viewpoint you can't see the greater implications. Tomorrow they remove or change something you like. It is always how it goes.
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Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:16:00 -
[2180]
JBs in every other system and 20+ large bubbles on gates is GOOD SANDBOX!
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Psycho Therapy
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Posted - 2011.05.17 17:41:00 -
[2181]
Originally by: ReK42
Lastly, this change will not have the effect you want. You said this is being done to promote player interaction but it will do the exact opposite. Without the ability to create cross-region chained bridge networks such as the eye of terror, which would essential double in length in terms of jumps needed to cross it, moving fleets of any size, from terrible lag-inducing blobs to small 10-20 man recon gangs, into combat areas will become many times more difficult. It also severely affects an alliance's ability to defend its space for the same reasons: more jumps means a longer response time for home defense fleets which means more chance for the reds to get away and less chance of player interaction (ie, a fight).
So you don't think making hit and run gangs more viable by reducing the sov holders' ability to respond quickly with a large overpowered force will result in more hit and run gangs? Interesting.
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Elite28
Caldari WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.17 18:52:00 -
[2182]
Edited by: Elite28 on 17/05/2011 18:52:37 For those who didn't want to read the previous 73 pages....
Summary of thread: CCP: Hello, soon we will be removing some advantages to those who own space to make it fair for others.
Carebears: But but but WWaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! 8 (:::::::::::::::::::::
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Miagi Sans
Amarr PURgE-Corp PURgE Alliance
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Posted - 2011.05.17 19:40:00 -
[2183]
People keep saying that this will hurt smaller alliances. As a member of a smaller alliance i call rubbish on this statement. Over a year ago we snuck into the south (we got 2-3 plots of land) doing nothing but freighter escorts into deep south space (we stole a little plot of land from initiative) and we lived there for months with NO jump bridge support, and we had maybe 2 carriers and 1 jf. We did everything the hard way.
We got our sov up to lvl 5 military and lvl 4 indy before we were "evicted" (no hard feelings...had a blast with our neighbors and some great times!" We had to travel a minimum of 20 jumps in and out. It was not that bad. It actually was quite fun. We made plenty of money and had plenty of good (and bad) times as a group.
The point is not to spread yourself out too thinly...you dont need 100 systems if 25 will do everything you need it to do. Thats the point i hope of the JB and upcoming 0.0 changes....get the ball moving on more localized and smaller land owners (without having to become renters) and hopefully thinning out the bloated space we see on the sov map.
I could be delusionally idealic...but a man can dream.
Oh and since we live in low sec...could we please get some lovin' for low sec!
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:18:00 -
[2184]
Edited by: Andski on 17/05/2011 20:20:17
Originally by: Vince Draken Intresting to see its only NC moaning in this thread out of all the 0.0 Alliances / Groups of dudes.
Carebear heaven shall be no longer AS safe as it is now, All we need now is remove cyno jammers + becons and... Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D
Probably because it's not just the NC?
You're a drooling moron if you think that sovereignty-holding alliances shouldn't have the upper hand in their own space. The odds should be stacked against any attacker.
But I guess it's too hard to think when you're oh so excited about all those haulers you'll get to pop to pad your ~k/d ratio~
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Fesecious
Gallente legio immortalorum
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:45:00 -
[2185]
CCP puts it right out infront of you in their post. They do not really care anymore about what the players want its what they want. Back in the day they actually listened to the players. They clearly state that they want it to meet their goals.
Yes EVE is going more and more carebearish. I like the difference between highsec, low and null but things like the removal and consolidation of skills is also going along the carebear route. New players no longer have to spend a couple of weeks in the beginning training the learning skills in order to save months of training down the road. Now they are consolidating the social skills. I liked the idea of if you go to a security agent you get combat and mining you get mining. That is logical but no reason to condense down or take skills out. Part of what makes EVE great is that it makes you think about what you are doing and plan ahead.
My idea of what 0.0 was is a place for the players to settle call home and build an infrastructure like what the NPC corps did with empire. Which from what i can see is what NC did and the rest of null is more or less 3rd world tribes fighting. If someone was to get all the tribes to unite you have SC and then have a well developed area there also. Which would lead to CCP needing to add a story line or something in of new territory to be explored and or settled. I dont know thats just my thoughts off the top of my head. Just throwing the idea out there.
The biggest complaint i have with them is allowing the sales of characters. This i think would adjust the cap and super cap quite drastically and corps would be more inclined to try to keep those players in game. It would be a serious thing to lose a cap or super cap pilot. Right now its just a mater of ISK to get another.
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javer's donkey
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Posted - 2011.05.17 20:59:00 -
[2186]
well ccp is bunch of brain dead monkeys when it comes to understanding 0.0 and they seem to wanna provide us with more and more evidence about this
it took you guys ages to fix the c*ck up you made in dominion now you wanna go and drive us into empire with making the logistics even more hatefull and time consuming?
after you launched lvl 4 missions then 0.0 was a wasteland and now your heading to override the changes that made 0.0 a decent place to live were risk vs reward was in a semi balance
ccp=cant code properly
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Elite28
Caldari WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.17 21:42:00 -
[2187]
Edited by: Elite28 on 17/05/2011 21:46:36
Originally by: Andski Edited by: Andski on 17/05/2011 20:20:17
Originally by: Vince Draken Intresting to see its only NC moaning in this thread out of all the 0.0 Alliances / Groups of dudes.
Carebear heaven shall be no longer AS safe as it is now, All we need now is remove cyno jammers + becons and... Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D
Probably because it's not just the NC?
You're a drooling moron if you think that sovereignty-holding alliances shouldn't have the upper hand in their own space. The odds should be stacked against any attacker.
But I guess it's too hard to think when you're oh so excited about all those haulers you'll get to pop to pad your ~k/d ratio~
Sure lets do that. No wait it's already like this. The consistent stream of intel, the cyno jammers, the Player owned stations only the ones who built it or are blue can dock at, the POSs, the easy access that Jump bridges allow, used all the time to get infront of hostiles to camp them down a pipe. The ease of creating fleets on a moments notice. etc etc.
So lets keep this how it is. Lets give all the advantage to the space owner. But then how do the small pvp corps do anything taking conventional small roams to enemy space. You get reported on intel channels, you gather a fleet from all around the region, JBs ease this. Blob created. Blob is sent to kill the small pvp gang or to camp them with having better maneuverability, better fits/composition for hostiles.
People get bored of this.
Also for those who want to throw their ego into this post. Ya, it happens to you too. Feel free to dissect this and whine some more.
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Flesh Slurper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.05.17 22:01:00 -
[2188]
Originally by: Elite28
Sure lets do that. No wait it's already like this. The consistent stream of intel, the cyno jammers, the Player stations only the ones who built it or are blue can dock at, the POSs, the easy access that Jump bridges allow, used all the time to get infront of hostiles to camp them down a pipe. The ease of creating fleets on a moments notice. etc etc.
So lets keep this how it is. Lets give all the advantage to the space owner. But then how do the small pvp corps do anything taking conventional small roams to enemy space. You get reported on intel channels, you gather a fleet from all around the region, JBs ease this. Blob created. Blob is sent to kill the small pvp gang or to camp them with having better maneuverability, better fits/composition for hostiles.
People get bored of this.
Also for the people who want to throw their ego into this post. Ya, it happens to you too. Feel free to dissect this and whine some more.
Changing bridges wont give you what you want. The best tactic to keep roaming gangs out of space is simply to deny them what they want: good fights. The best ways to do so are either to avoid them completely till they leave out of boredom or crush them with overwhelming numbers so they get tired of loosing. You may have more spots you can camp, but that doesn't mean that sov holders will let you grief their people any more than before. The end result, is generally people *don't want* to be attacked unless they feel like fighting and the point of holding sov in the first place is to build infrastructure. Sov's very nature is contrary to the idea of small gang warfare. People who want small gangs don't hold sov, they live in NPC null or lowsec.
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Elite28
Caldari WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.17 23:50:00 -
[2189]
CHanging bridges gives them less chance to out maneuver small faster gangs. Ignoring them is not always the case and you should know this. Also stop posting with alts...
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SirLANsalot
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Posted - 2011.05.18 01:24:00 -
[2190]
Null is STILL as dangerous as it was before. Only now you have large alliances, or groups of alliances working together to make it safer then it was before. If CCP could see all the industrial ships that are killed on JB's every day, they would know that null is as dangerous as it was before. So adjusting the game to what the players have done or are doing is just plain stupid (granted the obvious exploit here and there). However changing the game entirely all because players have started to work together to create a "new" high sec is something that has been a part of the game since day 1, PLAYER INTERACTION. If we all were flying supers, I think CCP would do something to change them. Not because there overpowered (even tho they are right now) but because most of the eve players have reached the point in the game to where they all can fly 20 supers and you would have super on super fighting. The game GROWS every day, new players that never have flown a cap, now fly them almost every day. Players that have normal carriers are upgrading to supers, its how the game works and plays.
It's the same with the JB's now, before they were a nice perk, just like supers, and now there a bread and butter thing, just like how supers will be one day. Only reason there "safe" at all is because the game has moved to the point where they can be. People are used to the current system, and instead of progressing the game farther, CCP is digressing the game. As such people are going to scream about it and either CCP will revert there horrid change (they have done it before) or we all will, grudgingly, adapt.
I have pitched an alternate idea (that seems to have been ignored) that would give CCP there goal of making JB's no longer safe. Make the JB module it self take more Power-grid or CPU. So that you will have nothing but the JB mod on that POS, and it becomes the fast travel system that the network was made to be. Only now, there just like normal gates with no defenses (or just a few LOL guns) that go else where in the universe, 5LY at a time.
If CCP wants more ISK sinks since this is going to make a big one (if anyone watched the Fan-fest vid on economy you would know this is a part of there ISK sinks). They should think of something else other then punishing current SOV holders. Like adding MORE benefits to being in Null, by ways of adding more types of upgrades for your Ihub and adding better Ihubs. Even making an Ihub upgrade to allow more then 1 JB in a system, thus creating an even bigger ISK sink (then the current update) for your economy guys.
There are many other (and better) options then doing this, current update. Ones that would give CCP what they want while still making players happy.
P.S: people posting on there alts is smart, so you don't get flamed in game with your real one |
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Royaldo
Gallente Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch. Sev3rance
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Posted - 2011.05.18 01:24:00 -
[2191]
So this 1 thing keeps poping up alot. People ***** and whine about intel channels. Whats the deal *****es?
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Dendel Hypermach
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Posted - 2011.05.18 01:59:00 -
[2192]
Originally by: xsnakebytex CCP's thoughts: Subcaps are too easy to move around, but dropping supers on everything is still very much fine and dandy.
**** yeah, nerfing the newbies just getting out to 0.0 is bull ****ing **** and Soundwave &all ought be ashamed for even having considered this path.
Side note, the Dominion cost for having a JB in system better be dropped to 1/5 what it is now.
CCP you're really being a bunch of @#$@#$ @#$@#$ tosser @#$@#$s.
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Dendel Hypermach
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Posted - 2011.05.18 02:01:00 -
[2193]
Given that you need to gate out of a JB link, why on earth would caps be banned from JB's? A Single JB per system fixes your perceived cap ship problem, don't double fix i.t
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2011.05.18 05:10:00 -
[2194]
Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 18/05/2011 05:12:49
Originally by: SirLANsalot ..If CCP could see all the industrial ships that are killed on JB's every day,..
It is called PvE, it is one step up from ganking ratters but still PvE. Bet "all those industrials" amount to less than what is killed on a single generic busy gate in low-sec .. just sayin'
Had I "grown up" with omni-present bridges I'd be pretty irate as well, but I actually moved to low-sec when the spam started partially because null was being dumbed down to Blob! vs Blob! .. fun and challenge went AWOL.
Being able to pay ones way to an advantage as huge as that offered by omni-present bridges is part of why they are were broken .. look at what you get per ISK when buying/using faction stuff: single digit performance % increases at insane mark-ups, if that was to be applied to bridges and the power the represent the costs would be so high that only real world millionaires with daily PLEX orders could compete. ISK makes for a really crappy balancing mechanism in all areas which is why it is not used.
I'll say it again, JB's could be so much more than they are but CCP lacks the inspiration/people to think outside the box: - Highway Bridges: Anchored at planetoids, open for all, owners able to offline fast/online slow. - Conflicted Bridges: Unable to online bridge in system with anchored jammer. - .....
Originally by: Dendel Hypermach Given that you need to gate out of a JB link, why on earth would caps be banned from JB's? A Single JB per system fixes your perceived cap ship problem, don't double fix i.t
Because we all want (and need) some of the 3000+ supercapitals to die in a fire which is nigh impossible if they can be moved into jammed parking systems on a whim.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.18 07:43:00 -
[2195]
Originally by: Elite28 words
You're complaining about blobs? Really?
"Oh hey let's gang up on solo ratters and other easy/soft targets, but oh god forbid they send a 20 man fleet after us, that's e-dishonourable"
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Cantina Pinata
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Posted - 2011.05.18 10:40:00 -
[2196]
Can we get rid of local too pls?
And while we are at it, remove low sec aswell. Turn it into 0.0 npc space.
That would increase small conflict like it does in wh space.
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Slobodanka
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Posted - 2011.05.18 10:45:00 -
[2197]
What I think 0.0 needs is the stop to gameplay mechanisms that allow vast amounts of space to be controlled by groups of pilots who are really not present in them that much.
Currently the situation is as follows: Solo pilot in 0.0 can do a bit better ISK-gathering-wise than empire dweller, and with all the security available to them they can actually be safer ISKing in 0.0 than in empire. So we have low risk, low rewards. Just like empire. In 0.0. Which is not empire.
If you're a big alliance then you can make tons of ISK but need to control large areas, put up massive infrastructure, supply huge amounts of fuel and parts etc. And sov mechanics allow for that. Taking down these ISK presses takes a lot of pilots, time and equipment so changes in this areas are very rare... they do happen and they are awesome when they do, but they are still rare.
What I'd like to see is "more powah" to the pilots and less carebearing for alliances. Boost up 0.0 rewards, but make it really really unsafe and insecure to gather those rewards. Sure, blobs will always beat small groups but needing 50+ pilots to finish a plex because there is 30man roam around would be much cooler and more fun that 1000v1000 lagfest. For this to happen both 50man fleet and 30man roaming group will need some incentive to get their asses into space in the first place, hence boost 0.0 rewards for smaller groups.
So instead of an alliance taking most of their time to fuel towers, bridges and other really fun and exciting things to gather ISK I'd again like to see good old(er) days where alliances had to rely on their members to get ISK and equipment, and getting ISK in 0.0 was noticably better (although noticably more dangerous) than in empire.
In short: Take away some (most) of the reasons for huge alliances to form in 0.0, put in more reasons for empire players to jump into 0.0 because there is actually a reason to do so other than peevepee. PvP will come, all you need is pilots and reason to start a fight. ISK is always a good reason to start a fight.
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nulab jones
Assisted Genocide Unprovoked Aggression
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Posted - 2011.05.18 11:02:00 -
[2198]
Edited by: nulab jones on 18/05/2011 11:04:22 Edited by: nulab jones on 18/05/2011 11:03:25 1 JB per system is a nice change, should bring back the need to work as a team and provide security for your logistics guys.
Small gang fleets are really missing in 0.0, shutting down an alliances JB route with a interdictor and a few bombers should provide hours of family fun and should be eaisly countered with a defence fleet, so it seems pretty balanced.
As for the extra costs of running these things with the extra sov costs, well i think eve is well overdue for some isk sinks especially at the alliance level.
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JC Anderson
Caldari Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2011.05.18 17:45:00 -
[2199]
Edited by: JC Anderson on 18/05/2011 17:56:22 ote=Vince Draken]Welcome back 2003 0.0:-D
I too welcome the removal of T3 ships and moms.
And the drake. ;)
Which would leave the ferox as the only caldari bc.... Actually had the bc even been introduced at all at that time? I can't remember how many years it was that the caldari were stuclk with the ferox until the drake was introduced.
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Elite28
Caldari WEPRA CORP WILD BOARS
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Posted - 2011.05.18 20:41:00 -
[2200]
Originally by: Andski
Originally by: Elite28 words
You're complaining about blobs? Really?
"Oh hey let's gang up on solo ratters and other easy/soft targets, but oh god forbid they send a 20 man fleet after us, that's e-dishonourable"
Nice try at deflection from topic guy. But ya when we see your botting carriers we tackle it for lols too.
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Lederstrumpf
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Posted - 2011.05.18 21:32:00 -
[2201]
Originally by: JasonKuehn Does anyone remember a time when CCP made a change that actually made sense?
Yes.
When they did remove the Mac bug reporter again.
It was buggy.
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 08:39:00 -
[2202]
Originally by: nulab jones Small gang fleets are really missing in 0.0, shutting down an alliances JB route with a interdictor and a few bombers should provide hours of family fun and should be eaisly countered with a defence fleet, so it seems pretty balanced.
That's just it - small gang fleets really aren't missing from 0.0 - I see them all the time, and occasionally I get the chance to form one (when RL allows).
Not only that, but small gangs already do shut down jump bridges with an interdictor and a few bombers. It's already happening, and has been for a long time.
This change is going to have zero effect on that because it's not the JBs that are stopping small gang PvP from happening - it's people not willing to go out in small gangs.
There are plenty of reasons why that might be, some have mentioned being blobbed when they do. Which brings up another point - this change to jump bridges won't change that either. What has changed in nullsec is that more people are living there since the "good old days", so the blob factor is going to be there because of that point alone.
The thing is that those people that currently go out in small gangs roaming through hostile territory find ways to deal with the possibility of running into a larger gang. Some people even want to run into a blob/defense fleet. I have a whole lot of respect for those people (most of you know who you are, at least the ones I've run into/flown with) and funnily enough I haven't seen any of them posting in support of this change. Chances are they're just busy getting on with playing the game the way they want in the sandbox rather than complaining about how jump bridges should be removed altogether because they're such an advantage to the Sov holders boo hoo.
So if you don't like that other players have managed to form larger groups than you have, or that other players have developed more infrastructure than you have, or they make more ISK than you do - HTFU. Find a way to deal with it, cause changing jump bridges sure won't make those things go away.
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Widemouth Deepthroat
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Posted - 2011.05.19 10:47:00 -
[2203]
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
Not only that, but small gangs already do shut down jump bridges with an interdictor and a few bombers. It's already happening, and has been for a long time.
Maybe you didn't know but camping jb you get like 1 kill before being reported and then people just warp to a celestial not inline with jb to avoid the bubble. Very happy about these changes :D
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Andreus Ixiris
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2011.05.19 11:05:00 -
[2204]
Hey guise
----- Andreus Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor
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Imigo Montoya
Hysterically Unforgiving Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2011.05.19 12:02:00 -
[2205]
Originally by: Widemouth Deepthroat
Originally by: Imigo Montoya
Not only that, but small gangs already do shut down jump bridges with an interdictor and a few bombers. It's already happening, and has been for a long time.
Maybe you didn't know but camping jb you get like 1 kill before being reported and then people just warp to a celestial not inline with jb to avoid the bubble. Very happy about these changes :D
Maybe you didn't know but this is a social game where people talk to each other! Same thing applies to a gate camp or roaming gang - you set up, get seen, get reported in intel and then people either avoid where you're camping/roaming or put together a gang to come (hopefully for them) kill you.
If you're looking for easy ganks rather than fights then HTFU and deal with the fact that other people in this game work together for mutual benefit. Either way this change won't have any real effect on you.
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Zander 06
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Posted - 2011.05.19 12:42:00 -
[2206]
So let me see if I got this right. First CCP nerfs 0.0 ratting so there is less good ratting space thus less isk to buy pvp ships. Then you want us to lose them faster and make it harder to get the ships out to 0.0. I think CCP doesn't want people to do anything but buy plex with rl cash to be able to pvp so CCP can suck out every last dollar we have. This change on top of the 0.0 nerf CCP just did is going to make 0.0 living a lot less desired and not worth it if you have to use rl cash to buy ships. I work a full time job and don't have time to spend all my game play time mining or ratting all week to buy 1 fitted BS saying I don't lose it getting it into 0.0 with CCP nerfing the JB network.
CCP if you are going to ruin 0.0 completely give us 0.0 player a heads up so we can find a different game to spend our hard earned money on.
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balgara
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Posted - 2011.05.19 13:11:00 -
[2207]
you got to be kidding me..what a bunch of hooee..1 jump bridge per system..might as well get rid of titans and supercaps while your at it..might as well make it low sec or pet sec..better yet make it galatic mamby pamby land and take away all pvp ships and have swings with civilian gatling guns so nobody cries..
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The Racketeer
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:25:00 -
[2208]
leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!! leave jump bridges alone!!!!
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The Racketeer
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Posted - 2011.05.19 14:58:00 -
[2209]
Edited by: The Racketeer on 19/05/2011 15:02:50 Jump bridge changes will allow a small BO/recon/bomber gang to place bubbles on gates between bridged systems. They can maintain a permanent camp and be 100% immune to attack by simply cloaking up. It would basically make any jump bridge network in 0.0 useless.
You're gonna get two types of PvP from the changes. 1. gank style PvP by people not reading intel and lemming in to gate camps to be ****d by clokie recon bomber fleets. 2. clokie fleets grefing larger protection fleets by sitting cloaked up between bridged systems for 23-1/2 hours.
None of that is the small fleet PvP CCP expects from this.
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Blaad Booyashaka
Minmatar Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2011.05.19 16:17:00 -
[2210]
Originally by: The Racketeer Edited by: The Racketeer on 19/05/2011 15:29:31
Jump bridge changes will allow a small BO/recon/bomber gang to place bubbles on gates between bridged systems. They can maintain a permanent camp and be 100% immune to attack by simply cloaking up. Fleets like this would make any jump bridge network in 0.0 useless.
You're gonna get two types of PvP from the changes. 1. gank style PvP by people not reading intel and lemming in to gate camps to be FUBAR by clokie recon bomber fleets. 2. clokie fleets grefing larger protection fleets by sitting cloaked up between bridged systems for 23-1/2 hours.
Fact is... PvP like this already happens but on a smaller scale on the current protected bridge networks.
Outside of SOV warfare... CCP will push this new style of jump bridge network/star gate camping in to the defacto type of PvP/Greifing in 0.0 of any jump bridge capable alliance, witch is SAD. CCP Devs needs to find a better ways to generate PvP.
Yea, new patch preventing you from asking mates for help and forming an escort is really idiotic move by CCP... oh wait.
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MadCzarian
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Posted - 2011.05.19 16:57:00 -
[2211]
not bad ccp, could you now make 0.0 like wh space and not have a pilot show up in local automatically. Even if i wanted to go out to certain areas of 0.0 i'd most likely get insta ganked just because of the stupid fact you show me in local even though i've done nothing but enter the system. Make us invisible until we do perform some action which alerts everyone of our presence.
thanks
mad
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.19 21:52:00 -
[2212]
Originally by: MadCzarian not bad ccp, could you now make 0.0 like wh space and not have a pilot show up in local automatically. Even if i wanted to go out to certain areas of 0.0 i'd most likely get insta ganked just because of the stupid fact you show me in local even though i've done nothing but enter the system. Make us invisible until we do perform some action which alerts everyone of our presence.
thanks
mad
another idiot crying about local chat, hilarious
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Martin Mckenna
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.05.20 00:01:00 -
[2213]
Originally by: Andski
Originally by: MadCzarian not bad ccp, could you now make 0.0 like wh space and not have a pilot show up in local automatically. Even if i wanted to go out to certain areas of 0.0 i'd most likely get insta ganked just because of the stupid fact you show me in local even though i've done nothing but enter the system. Make us invisible until we do perform some action which alerts everyone of our presence.
thanks
mad
another idiot crying about local chat, hilarious
bitter much?
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.05.20 04:34:00 -
[2214]
Originally by: Martin Mckenna
Originally by: Andski
Originally by: MadCzarian not bad ccp, could you now make 0.0 like wh space and not have a pilot show up in local automatically. Even if i wanted to go out to certain areas of 0.0 i'd most likely get insta ganked just because of the stupid fact you show me in local even though i've done nothing but enter the system. Make us invisible until we do perform some action which alerts everyone of our presence.
thanks
mad
another idiot crying about local chat, hilarious
bitter much?
~elite pvp~
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Woodywilson
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Posted - 2011.05.20 19:28:00 -
[2215]
Edited by: Woodywilson on 20/05/2011 19:29:02
Originally by: MadCzarian not bad ccp, could you now make 0.0 like wh space and not have a pilot show up in local automatically. Even if i wanted to go out to certain areas of 0.0 i'd most likely get insta ganked just because of the stupid fact you show me in local even though i've done nothing but enter the system. Make us invisible until we do perform some action which alerts everyone of our presence.
thanks
mad
You're right, nobody would detect the gravitational flux created by that wormhole the jump gate had to open up to drop your ass in there... Now go ask your mom if dinner is ready so you can get out of the forums.
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Om'en
Minmatar Hyperion LTD.
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Posted - 2011.05.24 06:22:00 -
[2216]
Edited by: Om''en on 24/05/2011 06:22:42 Hell i guess you can remove all the JB's now actually. Cause the population thats going to be left in 0,0 it will actually be like the old days. 4500 people logged in server wide
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Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.05.24 13:40:00 -
[2217]
Originally by: Om'en Edited by: Om''en on 24/05/2011 06:22:42 Hell i guess you can remove all the JB's now actually. Cause the population thats going to be left in 0,0 it will actually be like the old days. 4500 people logged in server wide
If you genuinely think that, then you shouldn't be in 0.0. Hi-sec is the right place for you.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
WisdomPanda
Gallente Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.05.25 19:57:00 -
[2218]
It's pretty obvious to me now how this all came about.
CCP Soundwave came to <insert well JB'd region> in/with <some irrelevant pirate corp> (since he's rather horny about gate camping honest newbs, it's the only logical choice), however to his surprise, people who are paying billions of isk a month to hold sov have some sort of advantages over him.
1 hour and 2 noob ship kills later...
He asks his mad ~leet pvp~ brosef; "BoB (could there be any other name?), why aren't we getting kills?" To which BoB replies; "It's those evil jump bridges." Shocked, Soundwave takes it upon him self to dig deeper!
Soundwave> Jump bridges you say? BoB> Yeah, they offer you 100% immunity from everything, it's basically impossible to die. Soundwave> Wow, I had no idea. BoB> If it wasn't for those dastardly jump bridges, we could get mad leet kills and be relevant in eve again! Soundwave> That's awful! But surely CCP, being so awesome, would have a way to counter it? BoB> Nope. It is 100% impossible. Don't listen to ~people~, jump bridges mean you are safe to move anywhere in anything. Soundwave> Is it because of sun blocking your vision when you shoot? That happens a lot. BoB> No, no. It's those damned POS's! They are armed to the teeth and highly intelligent! Soundwave> Sounds bad. What do you think should happen? BoB> JB's need to go. They ruined everything. Soundwave> If they are so terrible, why did CCP make them? BoB> Some **** about making logistic less /wrist worthy and rewarding sov holding or some rubbish. Soundwave> So wouldn't that make logistics painfully boring again? BoB> What do we care? It's not like we hold space or have to actually defend anything. BoB> Everyone wants the good old days anyways. Removing JB's will instantly turn back time and make Eve good again. BoB> Heck, even just a nerf would mean a 500% increase in small gang warfare. Soundwave> Hmm. A nerf might be doable. BoB> What? Soundwave> Nevermind :]
Twelve and a half minutes of planning later...
CCP .*> Are you ****ing insane? Soundwave> Trust me, it's a great idea!
CSM .*> Are you ****ing insane?! Soundwave> **** you.
<dev blog goes here/>
<massive thread goes here/>
In other news, pmsl at all this people being so horny over these changes. It would seem, some how, that they think it will give them more PvP interactions. The issue being that carebears (the people you think will be effected), by nature, are turtles - stations being their shells. And soon they will have player bars to pass the time in, adding to the lawl factor.
If people want to fight your :leetsmallgang:, they will do so, JB's or otherwise. What you actually hate is the players that won't fight you on your terms, but you find other things to vent your pirate rage on. Either way, you're still 5 cans short of a six pack for wanting people to engage on your terms while never agreeing to do so your self. (Point in case: You believe I should jump through a gate un-scouted and without support. I believe you should only engage solo, in a noob ship with civ weapons, while also having a bounty. We agree to disagree.)
On an unrelated note, I think the grid touched my baddon in it's private places. ----- Cheesecake, Natures ultimate weapon. |
Crest Cutty
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Posted - 2011.06.02 22:36:00 -
[2219]
I want more chances for passive income generation in 0.0 which can be disrupted by small roaming gangs.
Make 0.0 about pvp not stupid carebearing. I'm not out here to shoot little red x's I'm here to **** in the other guys cereal. Whatever mechanic/rp bs that you guys come up with allow it to be disrupted by small gangs of 5-20 so that dynamic small gang pvp will be worth something (make it immune to caps/supers please). PI is close but not quite enough, something around 100m a week and then get rid of sanctums.
Replace sanctums with incursion for 5-10 people and there you have it. 0.0 shouldn't be for individuals it should be for corps, group based isk making. If you want solo content hit up empire and run lvl 4's til your wallet bursts.
Hell, implement these changes in low sec to actually have a tiered system. Solo -> empire. <50 low sex. Blobs 0.0
btw I make 100m an hour in sanctums and that is broken, too many solo nyx's out there is terrible for the game as well as alliance/corp unity. A -.07 system simultaneously supports just my 2 characters, maybe a corp mate if they are running belts but with a carrier and mach I clear sanctums before they can respawn...
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Brian Huggar
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Posted - 2011.06.05 13:59:00 -
[2220]
== Implants == It might be because im a fairly new player to eve but the biggest problem I have is maximizing my skill learning time. To do this I have used very expencive implants, extending the "dont fly what you cant afford to replace" motto to implants I can easily afford to replace the ship I fly but NOT the implants and not the skill learning time lost without them.
So carebearing in 0.0 im not going to risk my implants picking random skirmish with nutrals. It takes too long to get out of my PVE ship into a jump clone into a PVP ship fly back to the nutrals try to fight them, they run away/log off/get bored if I didnt die then I have to spend the next 23hours45min in a jump clone loosing a massive portion of the implant benifit. If im fighting in a planned corp operation then fine im in my jump clone and I might loose it but so what, but loosing them several times a day in skirmishes is not productive.
Maybe when you buy an skill point enhancing implant it is always replaced at no or very low cost when you die, say in two month contracts.
The Devs should think about why people are not willing to fight instead of bringing them together at stargates.
What I have written might be very stupid, dont dumb this game down. Keep making it better .
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Brian Huggar
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Posted - 2011.06.05 14:05:00 -
[2221]
== 0.0 Layout == One problem I see with 0.0 is the layout. Its like real life, you avoid fighting with the neighbours on your street unless the are complete jerks, if so you get them replaced with neighbours you can live with or move yourself. If Corp 2 has to fly through Corp 1's space everyday, either they are going to fight continually until no one has anything left or form a friendship/Aliance and live a productive life in peace. Players are making big Aliances to live in peach, big fights are almost exclusivly region on region.
If the corridor's/pipes in 0.0 where different, not own-able, shorter maybe have more gates criss crossing, well less of a corridor. Make these systems different to normal ones, no soverignty can be taken on them, maybe no asteroid belts or Complex's DED space. Maybe new game mechanics could be added to some systems to create a common objective for each attacking fleet to fight over.
For players at them moment 0.0 is a home and a place of work to produce ISK. It is not a place of war. Maybe 0.0 should be peoples home and 0.1-0.4 made into the battle grounds. and 0.5+ the safe metroplolitan cities :)
What I have written might be very stupid, dont dumb this game down. Keep making it better .
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.06.14 12:27:00 -
[2222]
One week until major null-sec changes.
What odds are people giving CCP to have a smooth roll-out of Ken and Barbie-land alongside their planned toss of the M-80 into the null-sec pond?
Originally by: Higgs Bison How will EVE be affected if Dust is a flop?
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.06.14 14:04:00 -
[2223]
Originally by: Hakaru Ishiwara One week until major null-sec changes.
What odds are people giving CCP to have a smooth roll-out of Ken and Barbie-land alongside their planned toss of the M-80 into the null-sec pond?
Setting a LONG skill training.....
Then waiting to see feedback on the forums before I log in and <OOOPS> boot.ini..... Please re-size your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
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Peregrine
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Posted - 2011.06.18 16:09:00 -
[2224]
With the changes to JB's there should be an option to allow cyno beacons and cyno jammers to be online at same time. And while we are at it, fix everything to be based on standings so no more metagaming spy bumping ships out of pos. Not that JB pw's are much of a secret.
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