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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Iridis Bloodclaw
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Posted - 2008.05.02 00:20:00 -
[601]
A cheaper mid sized freighter would just encourage people to ship there ore and minerals to hubs. From a player perspective a smaller freighter would be great from a balance a game perspective it would centralize the economy.
This thread was made in 2005 if ccp thought it was a good idea they would have given us a mid sized freighter by now.
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Augeas
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Posted - 2008.05.02 00:35:00 -
[602]
 Quote:
I disagree. I think it would really help local markets.
Think about it. Say you build a bunch of ships. You generally have two choices, haul the lot of them to jita (or other major hub) in a freighter, or sell them at the station you built them in.
With a medium sized ship, you could move maybe 5 of them around at a time, drop them off one region over, jump to the next region and drop a few more off, and really spread the goods around across the local market.
This is completely the wrong way round. People don't move significant amounts of stuff out to random systems now, that's why hubs exist. Easier bulk transport will just encourage people to move stuff from where it is built to the hubs. It would be fundamentally bad for Eve. |
Messerschmitt facility
Amarr
Shinra
Shinra Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.03 03:16:00 -
[603]
You already have your mini freighter. it's called the jump freighter and it only carries 250k m3. |
Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.05.03 20:08:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Messerschmitt facility
You already have your mini freighter. it's called the jump freighter and it only carries 250k m3.
And costs 5 or more times as much as a standard freighter, is far more skill intensive and is still difficult to get hold of.
The main requirements of this ship is smaller AND cheaper. |
Inanna Zuni
Minmatar
The Causality
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.05.09 10:05:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Augeas
This is completely the wrong way round. People don't move significant amounts of stuff out to random systems now, that's why hubs exist. Easier bulk transport will just encourage people to move stuff from where it is built to the hubs. It would be fundamentally bad for Eve.
I'm not sure that is really the case though. My main alt shifts stuff (usually mine) for a living and has superb retailing skills. Taking all that production to a hub to sell just means a lower price but a faster sale. By following the market carefully though and selling in the right *non-hub* areas a trader can increase their profit margins over hub trading.
her fully-T2 expanded etc Iteron V is fine for for many things but yes, an intermediate size freighter would be a benefit to the game generally. Some pilots clearly have misgivings about it though so possible options could be "not permitted to dock in 1.0" or "cannot carry ores or minerals" (stops the macro-miners misusing it). Even with such a nerf it would still be useful for so many other reasons.
IZ
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Jitabug
Caldari
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2008.05.09 10:57:00 -
[606]
The implications this would have on the economy are significant. I think this is what concerns CCP.
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2008.05.09 14:03:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Augeas
This is completely the wrong way round. People don't move significant amounts of stuff out to random systems now, that's why hubs exist. Easier bulk transport will just encourage people to move stuff from where it is built to the hubs. It would be fundamentally bad for Eve.
"Random" systems perhaps not, but smaller hubs.
For instance, my current location has 3 mini-hubs (3 different regions) within 10 jumps. I can ship modules and ammo to them (and do) but I only sell ships where I build them. Someone with a freighter and my situation could probably haul all the ships produced to ONE hub and then wouldn't bother with the others... it just takes too long in a freighter.
With a heavy industrial of some type it becomes much more feasible to drop off, say, a 3rd of the production at each hub, either in a circuit or just going back and forth.
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SentryRaven
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.26 11:03:00 -
[608]
Finally found the thread on page 16 again!! :)
/bump cause I still need one of those.
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.05.27 14:28:00 -
[609]
Linkified and bump, this topic shall not die.
Dont forget to tick the support box when you post in the assembly hall.
Hi-Sec Industry NEEDS Mini Freighters <- not T2 bazillion ISK alliance toys |
procurement specialist
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Posted - 2008.05.27 16:23:00 -
[610]
can it still loot jet cans in space or at least wrecks. Since mineral drops are not individually large enough to be scooped to a freighter and picking up 100m trit hauler spawns takes a long time in even an itty V? small concern but still it is there.
I wouldn't make it t2. It could take racial indy V and then a new skill. pretend it is the hauler bc class.
If it used straight minerals instead of t2 or capital components it would be easier to build one for yourself.
Make it about 1/4 base as efficient as the racial freighter and able to fit modules and expander rigs if desired. Make it a little faster please.
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Kolwrath
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2008.05.27 17:35:00 -
[611]
Originally by: Jitabug
The implications this would have on the economy are significant. I think this is what concerns CCP.
I disagree.
Why would they have brought in freighters? this is one of the main arguments that came up against freighters back in the day ... yet they were implemented anyways.
Its not an economy issue, it probably more a resources issue (as in developer / artist / etc) issue.
Originally by: Chaos Space Marines
Do you hear the voices, too?!?!
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Antaiir
Eat My Shorts Inc.
Freelancer Coalition
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:04:00 -
[612]
I'm afraid, such ship will never introduced...
The idea for a midsize cargoship is not complete new, look at my post there:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=426890&page=5#134
/Quote
8. New cargoship class, not that large like a freighter, but larger than an industrial...
Quote
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telxkiskisrowr
The Greater Goon
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.06.08 13:16:00 -
[613]
csm offers me hope. the goon reps might not do every aspect of the game themselves but they do listen to other goons and goons are involved in everything everywhere.
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Exxon Longbow
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Posted - 2008.06.28 19:46:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Kolwrath
Originally by: Jitabug
The implications this would have on the economy are significant. I think this is what concerns CCP.
I disagree.
Why would they have brought in freighters? this is one of the main arguments that came up against freighters back in the day ... yet they were implemented anyways.
Its not an economy issue, it probably more a resources issue (as in developer / artist / etc) issue.
I agree its not an economy issue but...
Maybe they just don't care. New ships that EVER get implemented are either combat ships or mega logistics that are only practical in alliance/corp levels.
Lets face it, most devs that play are probably combat orientated even though the economic side of things gets it on the news. Don't get your hopes up high fellow haulers, patches will still be just as boring as the previous ones! |
Jawas
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.06.28 20:43:00 -
[615]
It has had my support since the freighter was brought out. A big, slow, totally defenceless cap ship is not what the players envisioned when a large hauler was first asked for way back. The Freighter is what we got, a corp tool rather than a small time traders tool really cos it needs protection on a big scale. To begin with, the Freighter is TOO big and overkill for all but the shipbuilder.
For a miner, the Freighter is too much but a fully expanded Itty V or Occator at 35K (3.5 million Trit) is nowhere near enough. In a single session, I can easily mine 15 million Trit (150K m3) alone. Moving that much minerals to your manufacturing location or the best price to sell can be far too time consuming. Some of us just don't have that much online time to spend hauling minerals. Therefore we either sell it locally at a loss or spend one of our evenings just hauling it, again at a loss in terms of time.
Lowsec and 0.0 operations can use a Rorqual but the cargo is limited even on that beast and frankly, using maxed Industrials or Transport ships to move it is both totally stupid and painfully slow. Two jumps or more often means it can take more Transport ships/Indies to move it that it took mining barges to collect it. The small Freighter needs to be able to interact with a Rorqual to pick up ore which, IIRC, the freighter cannot do. |
Messeko
Universal Star
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Posted - 2008.07.09 22:12:00 -
[616]
I realize this idea has been 3 years+ in the making, but I have not read about it before, and actually thought about it myself with tending a POS chain. 1 large tower, 1 week of fuel, 25-30km3, 1 itty5 run from the fuel horde to the tower. That's nice.
Here's a more practical example though. Fuel horde is at a 0.0 station. 3 jumps away there are two larges and 3 mediums doing reactions. 3-4 iteron V hauls? pita. 1 freighter exposed for 6 jumps? like hell.
I need something with 60-120km3, it needs to cost between 80-150m, it needs to align in 15-25 seconds, and it needs to be able to travel 100-120m/s. Using it for mining ops would be nice, but I'm fine with it only getting a handshake with stations and tower structures (silos, arrays, fuel bays).
You can make a new ship, but there is one simple solution: The Occator should have at least twice the base capacity as an iteron V. At this time, the Occator spells useless and with Heavy Dictors, the Velator has been nerfed into a Wreathe, only costing 50 times more. T2 ships are harder to build, harder to fly, and harder to afford. They should also be better...
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Darth Felin
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Posted - 2008.07.10 11:34:00 -
[617]
Originally by: Messeko
I realize this idea has been 3 years+ in the making, but I have not read about it before, and actually thought about it myself with tending a POS chain. 1 large tower, 1 week of fuel, 25-30km3, 1 itty5 run from the fuel horde to the tower. That's nice.
Here's a more practical example though. Fuel horde is at a 0.0 station. 3 jumps away there are two larges and 3 mediums doing reactions. 3-4 iteron V hauls? pita. 1 freighter exposed for 6 jumps? like hell.
I need something with 60-120km3, it needs to cost between 80-150m, it needs to align in 15-25 seconds, and it needs to be able to travel 100-120m/s. Using it for mining ops would be nice, but I'm fine with it only getting a handshake with stations and tower structures (silos, arrays, fuel bays).
You can make a new ship, but there is one simple solution: The Occator should have at least twice the base capacity as an iteron V. At this time, the Occator spells useless and with Heavy Dictors, the Velator has been nerfed into a Wreathe, only costing 50 times more. T2 ships are harder to build, harder to fly, and harder to afford. They should also be better...
Orca which will as well function as middleman transport between industrial and freigher. But your ubership that you described won't be implemented ever. Too cheap, too good.
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Dantes Revenge
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Posted - 2008.07.10 16:15:00 -
[618]
I seriously hope it isn't nerfed to be unable to carry ore. I am a miner and often mine in other systems locally due to the ease with which rocks pop. Too many belts are stripped clean and going further out is often necessary to make a days living. Since I don't have enough decent standings with the local stations there, I don't want to have to refine there so I have to tow my ore back where I don't lose so much in the refining process. Therein lies my problem... It takes ten or more trips with a fully maxed out hauler to move it all. That can take over an hour just to move the ore to where I can get a better refining rate. A freighter is just way OTT but an indy is pitifully insufficient so something in between would be perfect.
Seriously, what is the point in having a ship that can't move the primary resource that the majority are going to want to move. Ore and minerals are the main resources that are moved in large quantities. A ship meant to haul large amounts but can't move these resources is just a waste of database records IMHO. A freighter can move them so why not a smaller version? Jet can interaction is a totally different arguement though.
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There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. |
Shamballa
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Posted - 2008.08.02 09:57:00 -
[619]
Since the rigs are out and an Iteron V can be built to haul close to 50k m¦ (with Containers), the hole between this Iteron and a low skilled freighterpilot (minimum 750k m¦) is still too big.
When i heard from a medium-sized freighter, that will come, i thought, my never-outyelled dream will come true.
Then i heard from the jump-ability, and it will be a T2 (my face fell down).
So the idea was perfect, the transition and the final ship was one of the worst ever from CCP, in my opinion. (Salvaging and rigs was something that dropped into the game for everyone to use nearly instantly, thumbs up there).
So in the end, the jumpfreighter was a waste of time and has, if ever, only a use for large gangs. To shovel my stuff around high-sec i wont get a 4 Billion-ship, then i prefer multiple Iteron-runs.
Outstanding is still, that there is a need for this medium-sized freighter, and yes, also (or mostly) for minerals/ores.
Say, 250k-400k m¦, bit faster, bit cheaper than a usual freighter.
To avoid macro'ers, no jetcan-handling like the bigger brother, but keep the POS-handling too.
Oh, something crazy from me: what about a docking bay in a (big) freighter, where a hauler can dock in there and unload stuff into the freighter. Sounds good again for macro-miners. And tbh i have atm no idea, how to keep those cheaters off. But to me it sounds funny to let interact haulers under each other 
Oh, and if any GM is reading this ever, no T2!
Shamb
P.S.: to be a combat pilot it needs nice ships, yepp. But it all is built from industrialists. In RL a manufacturing company is raising in its technology to build faster and cheaper, and in EVE there is still either a Mercedes Smart or a 40-ton-truck, nothing between
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Zaphroid Eulthran
Minmatar
Imperial Visions
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:22:00 -
[620]
I have just read the current stats on the Orca, im not too sure if CCP intends that to fulfil what we are asking for here, but I dont think it does.
Technically it does have 120,000m3 of cargo but it is split between the 90K cargo (when fully expanded) and the 30K corp hanger, this leaves it still unable to haul the 120K m3 courier contracts.
It would seem the orca is a mining centerpiece ship, which is what it was supposed to be, I just hope that those who want the mini freighter will not be told the orca is the solution when it, in my eyes, is clearly not. |
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.24 02:09:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Zaphroid Eulthran
I have just read the current stats on the Orca, im not too sure if CCP intends that to fulfil what we are asking for here, but I dont think it does.
I really hope this isn't supposed to be the mid-sized freighter none of us wanted. If it is, they REALLY missed the boat.
All I want is a 120km3 capacity and the agility of a mining barge. It doesn't take a PhD in game design to work that out. |
Menian Galvon
BAD WOLF INC.
CODE RED ALLIANCE
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Posted - 2008.10.24 18:12:00 -
[622]
Originally by: Haas Tabris
/bump and agreed completely. great idea!
Tech II industrial maybe? Starts with about 15,000 m3 that can be expanded upon...?
T2 Industrial already exist. Viator, Occutor, etc. THeyr called Transport ships. |
Super spikinator
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Posted - 2009.01.09 21:03:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Menian Galvon
Originally by: Haas Tabris
/bump and agreed completely. great idea!
Tech II industrial maybe? Starts with about 15,000 m3 that can be expanded upon...?
T2 Industrial already exist. Viator, Occutor, etc. THeyr called Transport ships.
you may want to check the timestamp on that quote this is a thread that started in 2005.
The orca is a nice ship, its a jump for those who don't have the skills for the super capital but have a large skillbase beyond other mining vessels. There is now almost a mid-level design in most fields, I'm not talking t1-t2, I'm taking hull to hull.
now I believe there should be a mid level designed for traders and smaller corps who want to haul things. A mid-size freighter would be a nice start, somewhere between 50k-100k as people say without having to resort to expansion, maybe make it like the freighter and have no slots for expansion but possibly rigs.
I would say that this should only be able to interact with ORE captials, POSes and Stations. period. Some of the more wealthy macrominers will abuse this, but then again everything you put in the game will be abused by a small group of people. Thats just how games work. The intent for this is trading/POS fueling and maybe,maybe hauling from capitals. |
KustoMKilleR
Caldari
Legio Mortuus
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Posted - 2009.01.20 11:28:00 -
[624]
you already have it.....its called an orca. can be expanded out to about 70km3. problem solved |
Ethic Fail
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:44:00 -
[625]
Arrrgh my brains have been eaten by the ebil necrothread! |
Yolo
Caldari
Dark Knights of Deneb
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Posted - 2009.01.20 13:50:00 -
[626]
Edited by: Yolo on 20/01/2009 13:50:45
Orca
2x Expanded Cargohold II
3x Cargohold Optimization I
92,714m¦ Cargo Hold
40,000m¦ Corp Hangar
That will allow you to fit 43 Giant Secure Containers.
These each increase cargo capacity by 900m¦
Total cargo increasement:
38,700m¦
--------------------
+ 92,714m¦
+ 40,000m¦
+ 38,700m¦
---------
=171,414m¦
Use accordingly .o/ |
Shaka Quatuic
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Posted - 2009.01.20 17:48:00 -
[627]
this is an area where ccp has seriously fallen flat on it's face in many respects.
those of you who have read my posts in other threads know that I am fond of using real-life analogues, and that trend is going to continue here. to put it simply, there are far too few different models of cargo transport vessels.
I see current industrials such as the mammoth and itty5 to be akin to modern day river barges - intended for short range transport of small to medium loads (although they are able to maneuver on their own). this is all well and good for individuals and mining gangs for belt to station runs, as well as small to medium-scale industrialists who need to move modules and such from system to system. Unfortunately, CCP chose to completely skip other transport vessel types when they introduced the freighter - which is closest in capabilities to a real-life bulk carrier type of transport.
what should have been happened was the introduction of other classes of cargo ship as the economy of eve grew, following a closer to RL model of how cargo transports are designed and what roles they fill. for example:
- Industial ships should have been far less hauler and more small-scale mining command ship along the same lines as a Battlecruiser - capable of specifically fitting mining-gang related command modules (only one at a time of course) and tanking belt rats - ECM would have been a decent secondary ability as it would allow the industrial to draw the attention of belt rats for that purpose. T2 versions should have been the industrial equivalent of fleet command ships - no need for a field command equivalent
- what we now know as industrials should have been the Bulk Carriers. lower tier models of this class would be smaller and intended for hauling in support of miners (a Tier 3 Bulk Carrier would be roughly equivalent to a fully expanded and rigged Itty 5), with the ability to manipulate/load/unload cargo in space, while higher Tier models would forego the ability to manipulate cargo in space in favor of much higher capacities on the order of 250kkm^3. This class would be limited however in that it would be specialized for the handling and transport of ore, raw ice, and other non-perishable raw materials such as moon minerals
- the next class of ships would be Container Ships. Intended (and specialized) for the transport of manufactured goods, these ships would specialize in transporting a fixed number of containers externally, the number and size of which is a constant dependent upon the vessel's Tier. the typical Tier 1 vessel of this class might carry 12 Large Secure Containers, while the Tier 5 might carry up to 12 General Freight Containers. These ships, due to their nature, are all capable of manipulating cargo containers in space, and so are the principal class used for the anchoring of POSes. the secure containers however are not compatible with the ore transfer systems used by miners, as they cannot handle raw materials. While they can carry packaged vessels in their containers, carrying large quantities of large ships is the domain of the final class: the Heavy Lift Transport
- the third class of cargo vessel is the Tanker. these are specialized in handling refined materials such as tritanium, fernite, liquid oxygen and ozone in large quantity, with the upper tiers reaching truly gigantic proportions of well over 1Mkm^3 in volume.
- the final class is the aforementioned Heavy Lift Ship. the sole domain of this vessel is the transport of large packaged vessels such as Battleships, Carriers, Dreadnaughts and Titans over long distances. as such, it is a T1 Capital class equipped with its' own jump drives, and is restricted from entering 0.5 space or higher unless contracted (and cynoed) by an NPC empire agent.
of course there would be T2 variants, some of which would be jump-capable, able to cloak etc. |
Kredan Rasok
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Posted - 2009.03.25 11:42:00 -
[628]
Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
the final class is the aforementioned Heavy Lift Ship. the sole domain of this vessel is the transport of large packaged vessels such as Battleships, Carriers, Dreadnaughts and Titans over long distances. as such, it is a T1 Capital class equipped with its' own jump drives, and is restricted from entering 0.5 space or higher unless contracted (and cynoed) by an NPC empire agent.
I like this idea, but perhaps it should be revised to allow the transport of assembled ships as well so that if you have a large number of ships with Rigs fitted you can move them all at once instead of doing a piecemeal one by one relocation.
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Neesmah
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.25 20:16:00 -
[629]
I wonder why a dev hasnt comented on this yet, even if its just a "well present it at the next brainstorm meeting or w.e."
Immensea |
Gopher Boy
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Posted - 2009.03.25 21:42:00 -
[630]
I think this idea has not been commented on by CCP since we now have the Orca which can be expanded to the capacity the OP wanted in the first place.
Please do not necro this thread any longer.
/thread
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