Alas, I was away on a trip and didn't get to see this beautiful thread until it was already 71 pages long and long since melting down. Lovely change and so many implications. Delicious

do you seriously believe that people are going to buy raw ore, refine it in null and ship minerals back to highsec ?

did you know there is a reason people currently use modules to compress minerals ? it has to do something with m-¦

Having better refining yields in null sec than high sec destroys competition and forces serious industrialists to join null sec alliances in order to maintain their profit margin .
Also worst refining yields will hurt mission running income , will hurt salvaging corporations and will generate less tritanium etc tritanium --->ships will become more expensive .
I dont really know whats the ratio mining asteroids for tritanium vs refining loot for tritanium so i dont really know where the market will balance .

first CCP planing to add new pos mod for ore compression and that new ore compression seems - that will be (quote from dev blog):

" With the max reprocessing rate for any item that is not ore or ice dropping to 55%(with Scrapmetal Processing trained at 5), we needed to find other ways to favor compression or else null-security industry would simply stop functioning.

The solution is to improve compression ratios from Rorqual ore blueprints by increasing their outputs by 38.1% (due to the reprocessing changes above) while tweaking the compressed ore volumes to make it competitive with current modules like the 425mm Railgun I for instance. Exact figures on compression changes available below:"

i highlighted it for you.
you must know that high end ore can come not only from sov space. Npc null, wh will sell their compressed ore if price will be higher than they will get from refined minerals (they can't get perfect possible refine) do you get point?

a lot serious industrialists already in null and you can sell mods, ships for local residents with very nice profit (if you have access to stations).

simply not true. mods come from jita. ever ship that is not a battlecruiser or bigger comes from jita. battleships and battlecruisers sometimes are made locally. with minerals from jita.

lots of traders ? yes. lots of industrialists ? nope. in the few cases where it actually happens it's for jita. exceptions are caps, supercaps and a few battlecruisers and battleships. maybe some production from T2 BPOs. but that's rare

This is not at all true. A lowsec builder builds in station: he is utterly invulnerable and can never lose his station or have his bpos locked up. He also has a factory/refinery: perfect refines, 50 slots. It's the latter that nullsec has been utterly unable to compete with, as nullsec has no factory/refineries.

Even if minmatar refines are boosted, a lowsec station is better than an un-upgraded minmatar station because the minmatar station doesn't have any factory slots (it only has 5, making it impossible to produce caps well there). You'd have to be building at a pos, and placing yourself at greater risk of losing your baby ships (something a lowsec producer can never lose).

In addition, in null, you can lose your build station: even if I spend 60 billion making an improved factory/refinery I can build in-station, I can lose that station and have all my caps/cap bpos locked up. No lowsec producer ever faces that risk. The lowsec producer simply moves in and doesn't have to work for his space, pay to upgrade it, defend it, and risk losing it. Nullsec producers must do all four. It's nonsense that they face "little increased effort" and "little increased risk", as a lowsec builder needs to expend no effort and suffer no risk.

I could see it being more beneficial either to make the ore compression a station service or a deployable or to make the compression mineral based instead of ore based. Either way, I think that the Rorqual should compress more efficiently that the POS module.

i was talking about real people (players) who have chars in null and chars in other part of space. people who can make few spreadsheets, can calculate profit and have patience to use industry tab. eve players are intelligent enough to be hardcore pvpers in null and to run some industry jobs with their alts. some players coordinating large scale moon mining operations, caps, supercaps production.

large scale moon mining operations ? the moon goo is send to jita and sold. in some cases it's sold to the member corps or individual players. those then do reactions. on anonymous alts in lowsec. btw: did you know that reactions are entirely different from other industrial stuff ? mainly because they don't require sov, don't require outposts, don't require slots. all you need is an anonymous pos in lowsec.

You're asking that your risk-free effort-free station out compete sov 0.0. Thats nuts.

Sov confers a fuel bonus to towers, however, so if you have access to sov nullsec, you'd be a fool to run reactions anywhere else. Hell, we have some renters in Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere that rent specifically to get access to moons to run towers on at a fuel discount.

Why should CCP make 0.0 better than highsec for a section of gameplay that you will never ever let anyone be invloved in?

you forgot the part where the alts are doing industry in Highsec.

large scale moon mining operations ? the moon goo is send to jita and sold. in some cases it's sold to the member corps or individual players. those then do reactions. on anonymous alts in lowsec. btw: did you know that reactions are entirely different from other industrial stuff ? mainly because they don't require sov, don't require outposts, don't require slots. all you need is an anonymous pos in lowsec.

caps and supercaps are the exceptions i acknowledge, just like some other edge cases. but the overwhelming majority of all building is happening in highsec. i have interviewed maybe 30 or 40 recruits for my corp. not a single one of these guys has ever even asked about doing industry in nullsec. many of them have done industry. in anonymous highsec corps.

Sov confers a fuel bonus to towers, however, so if you have access to sov nullsec, you'd be a fool to run reactions anywhere else. Hell, we have some renters in Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere that rent specifically to get access to moons to run towers on at a fuel discount.

a lot serious industrialists already in null and you can sell mods, ships for local residents with very nice profit (if you have access to stations).

Having better refining yields in null sec than high sec destroys competition and forces serious industrialists to join null sec alliances in order to maintain their profit margin .
Also worst refining yields will hurt mission running income , will hurt salvaging corporations and will generate less tritanium etc tritanium --->ships will become more expensive .
I dont really know whats the ratio mining asteroids for tritanium vs refining loot for tritanium so i dont really know where the market will balance .

I don't like it. You just severly made my rorqual useless. Thanks for the "help"

A pos mod? Seriously?

I researched bluprints for monthes to compres in the rorqual, and now you make the ship worthless. Really?!

Rorqual is getting its own revamp at a later date.