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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Cogni Zant
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:10:00 -
[961]
Personally i think that CCP should alter the client to collect data reguarding players systems. This would give them acurate enough figures to work out what is a better option reguarding dropping SM2.
As for dropping SM1, i'm suprised its not been dropped before this.
For the most part there seems more players saying 'No' to dropping SM2 due to one reason or another. This i can understand as there are a number of players unable or unwilling to upgrade. For a lot of others it's not a case of upgrade but a new system, mainly laptop owners.
I think that if CCP had siad 'We're thinking of dropping SM2 in 2 years time' most wouldn't be up in arms over it. With it being within the same year is hard to swallow.
Although the possible dropping of SM2 won't effect me i'm hoping that its left in game for a while longer. It would be a sad loss to loose players because they can not or will not (as yet) upgrade or purchase new /2nd hand systems to continue playing Eve-Online.
my 0.02p worth |
zombu2
Caldari
legion of qui
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:13:00 -
[962]
 Originally by: Avon
Originally by: zombu2
finally admitt your computers are crap and do something about it invest the 50 bucks
to all that bought those cheapo laptops ...you knew what you where buying and you always get what you pay for next time spend a couple hundred more on a laptop
My "cheapo" laptop was over $2000 and purchased because it was well in excess of the requirements for Eve.
As of March I will no longer be able to use it to play Eve, one of the main reasons I choose that specific machine.
Just because this change is not impacting on you is no reason to belittle those who go have genuine concerns.
If getting a new laptop is such a trivial thing, you are quite welcome to buy me one.
look m8
no pun intended but you know as good as i do that the life of a laptop is even shorter then desktop pc's in regard of playing games also you know as good as i do that the laptop you payed 2k for is older then 1.5 years maybe 2 and you can not say because you payed so much money back in the day that ccp has to support outdated technology
be honest we will have the same conversation everytime ccp changes something on the client affecting either convienience or older hardware and we always will be here complaining and arguing back and forth |
Anisa Schardl
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:28:00 -
[963]
Ok, seriously, people need to look at the big picture here. It basically boils down to the question: How long do you want Eve to be around? If the answer is a long time, then the game has to evolve. They need to update it to keep it with the times, and that's what they're doing. If you want Eve to die out because it gets old and creaky, or you want it to be replaced by Eve 2 (in which case you probably won't be able to play anyway), then by all means they can keep the old stuff.
That being said, I think discontinuing SM2 at the end of this year might be a bit hasty. Discontinuing SM1 in March, perfectly fine. Seriously, anyone who's still using a computer that can't support that requirement shouldn't be playing games on that system, period. Your projected numbers for people who don't have SM2 compatibility are probably accurate. However, I think your projected numbers for SM3 might be significantly off.
Doesn't affect me at all, I upgrade my rig every couple of years. But I would recommend going ahead with the March plan and discontinuing classic and SM1, but hold off on SM2 for another year or so.
Alternatively, you could do an ingame poll to determine how many people would be affected by discontinuing SM2, or add a system scan to the client to build a database of what your players are using. If the numbers of non-SM3 compatible people are indeed as low as you project, go ahead with the plan. If not, hold off on the plan for another year or so.
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zombu2
Caldari
legion of qui
Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:33:00 -
[964]
well this is something we probably can all argee to run a voluntary system check on the machines and see how it turnes out
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:42:00 -
[965]
Just because a machine is SM3 capable doesn't mean that's we want to use that feature. My laptop tends to overheat and burn through its better in 40 minutes when using premium, while it'll run cooler and last a few hours using classic.
I have a 2 year old laptop that gets a healthy 50fps in classic, and and slideshows along at 5fps in premium.
People playing on plain old PC's wont have any problems, graphics cards are cheap. Sure if you have to get a PCI or AGP version you'll pay a premium, but still it'll be a couple of months worth of subscription fees.
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Kariel Lateef
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:46:00 -
[966]
Ok I admit to not wading through this topic, 30 pages is a bit much.
However here is my question, I'm technically inept and couldn't find the answer for this, will eve still run on this graphics as of march? Mobile intel 965 Express Chipset family, it's my laptop, it's my only computer and due to the wonderful economy i am unemployed and a new comp isn't on the books, I have been gifted Eve for the present and really don't want to let it go just because my comp will no longer run it.
yeah what ever |
Evil Catbert
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:47:00 -
[967]
I would recommend CCP use an EVE specific version of this type of hardware survey.
Steam Hardware Survey
This is a very poor comment to make in the development of any software - "What we don't know is exactly how many. We estimate that about 95% of all subscribers currently have hardware that is SM2 compatible."
CCP "estimates" the hardware specification for a user base with no actual way to measure it. If I saw a survey published and the numbers support their "estimate" then I will agree that a change to specifications may be needed.
Since no survey was conducted and no findings reported than CCP's estimate has a error of ¦100%
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Cratos
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Posted - 2009.01.16 17:56:00 -
[968]
be honest we will have the same conversation everytime ccp changes something on the client affecting either convienience or older hardware and we always will be here complaining and arguing back and forth
True but its still gambling with subscribers this time they force people with older hardware to stop playing or upgrade and for different reasons some people can't spend money on new hardware even if they work, its so much else in RL the comes before money for entertainment.
Its like someone said in hard times what do people try to save money on, daily newspaper or milk of these two things what do we need even if times are bad ?
I don't know how its all over the world but here were I live I've seen computer hardware stors close down just in the last few months even lager once so I guess people do try to cut expenses.
I can only speak for were I live
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Bacabachaui
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:06:00 -
[969]
I remember when Premium Graphics came out there was a dealy-o we could run to see if our system supported shader model 3. Is there anything like this for shader model 2?
Or at least can someone point me to a game that REQUIRES shader model 2, that also has a free trial I can download and run just to see if I can get it to work on my machine (which will then prove I can at least run Eve in March, and maybe even play).
Otherwise I am going to have to set a really long skill on March 9th and then figure out what I am going to doŕ
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Shea Klant
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:09:00 -
[970]
Edited by: Shea Klant on 16/01/2009 18:13:05
Originally by: dahlbeck
How will this affect Mac users running the classic client on less than stellar hardware...
Why do you hate Steve, you are going to kill him with your negative waves. Everyone knows that Macs are superior to everything...period.
Saying anything less is heresay. |
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Rex Lashar
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:10:00 -
[971]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
In Apocrypha, we are completing the Renovation project so that all art assets have a Premium version (counterpart to their Classic version). But we are also adding a lot of new art assets, such as Tech 3 ships. We are only developing Premium versions of those new art assets, since we would only be able to make half as many or it would twice as long if we continued to support the Classic edition.
Dude, that was the most confusing thing ever.
First, it was stated that planets and nebulae won't be in Apocrypha by t0rfi about two weeks ago, and that they MIGHT be in this summer at the earliest. But here you are completing the renovation project. So what is actually being upgraded visually besides some of the effects?
Two, if you're only making premium versions of the new art assets, what exactly are Classic people going to see when a T3 ship warps in?
And three, answer my question please.
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: Leeham
I hate to disturb the argument here regarding people being excluded but will Premium Light graphically represent prenium or classic?
Premium Light will be an "auto-generated SM2 version" of the current Premium art content (which is SM3).
Can you please address this comment I made on page 3? If you can autogenerate any quality level from the base assets, shouldn't it be possible to upgrade current Trinity graphics further?
I mean, unless you force HDR+AA to ridiculous levels, hardware from the last 2-3 years runs EVE at stupidly high FPS.
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Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:22:00 -
[972]
Originally by: Rex Lashar
Two, if you're only making premium versions of the new art assets, what exactly are Classic people going to see when a T3 ship warps in?
Nothing, because there won't be an Eve Classic then, that is the whole point.
They can't be bothered to put the effort in, and would rather throw $2mil per year away in the hope they can claw it back from new subs.
Sod the people who can't play, CCP don't care. |
Suga H
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:27:00 -
[973]
I like the idea of Premium Lite, but I'd say don't drop SM2 until SM4 is the standard. Like you said, EVE has prided itself on being able to run on super low end computers, so don't take that away.
I personally don't think I can upgrade to a SM3 card without having to upgrade my cpu, and I can't upgrade my cpu without a new motherboard and power supply. And by then, it's pretty much a new computer. |
Bacabachaui
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:29:00 -
[974]
Edited by: Bacabachaui on 16/01/2009 18:29:49
Originally by: Bacabachaui
Edited by: Bacabachaui on 16/01/2009 07:07:42
I am having trouble trying to figure out if my laptop, a Dell B130 can run shader model 2. I bought it from Dell in September of 2007 and my display adapter is a Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family. Anyone know? I clicked the link to the Wiki page and it lists Intel GMA 900, 950, 3000, 310 but it is not specifically listing my specs.
Also I want to suggest "no" on going to shader model 3.0 for at least a few years.
OK, I think I found my own answer and am posting it here just in case anyone else has the same computer and question as me. I found an article from 2004 that appears to confirm that my graphics (card?) Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family does support Shader Model 2.0. Linkage |
SoSiouxMe
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:36:00 -
[975]
After having the bejezus scared out of me by this thread that a review of my video cards capabilities found them both to be SM 3.0 capable.
Laptop with GF7900Go
Desktop with GF6800GS/XT
The desktop only really does 1 client at a time now but the lappy does up to 4 at the same time with decent frame rates (30+ @ 4 clients - classic).
I hope I can continue to run 4 clients one my lappy under the new system.
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Kariel Lateef
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:38:00 -
[976]
Ok i found my answer posting here to help others
Mobile intel 965 Express Chipset family supports shader 4 |
Anathema Matou
Moonmaiden Ltd.
Avateas Blessed
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Posted - 2009.01.16 18:57:00 -
[977]
just the bare facts because everything else has been said:
- Losing my notebook (Radeon M9 = SM1) for switching skills, industry jobs, market and having to resort to the PC for everything: inconvenient. Yeah, it's a bit old and might get an upgrade, but wasn't planned for another year.
- The PC has SM3+, but runs the classic client. I dislike quite a few of the new ship models in premium, plus premium is so far much less stable than classic, nevermind the Linux problems.
- My other notebook does SM2 (Radeon X300), of cause can't run the current premium client at all, but since some patch maybe 1.5 years ago the client is happily crashing the system every now and then. Good enough to switch skills from hotel rooms, but can't replace my other notebook.
- From over 4 years of playing EVE I can summarize that time spent inside stations is at least as much, probably more like double, the time spent outside. So yes, I'm running missions sometimes, PvPing sometimes, but focusing on industry. Looking at the pages before this posting, it seems many of those players run on lower end rigs (or maybe it's the other way around, lower end rigs make people stick to industry instead of pew-pew). Whatever the number of customers you're risking in this progress, it might have a considerable higher effect on the industrial base of the game than any other part. I'll leave the conclusions from that to you.
- I fully support the requests to finally give us a "thin client", 2D or whatever as long as it can do all the jobs one does in station (chatting, skills, industry, market/trading). Doesn't need the fancy graphics at all maybe with the exception of the portrait renderer. Just do it. It will probably allow you to keep most of the customers currently "written off", and give a decent bonus even to the "omg i haz l33t hardwarez" people. It might even help getting the courier contract system finally off the ground, lol. |
Irillide
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:20:00 -
[978]
I understand the argument from those who want to still be able to run a second account on an older computer, or those wanting to run eve on an ultra portable laptop. But those that are saying they will have to leave eve due their computer not supporting sm3 and they can't afford to upgrade their card, in my eyes also shouldn't be able to afford the monthly cost for eve. Either that or they have their real life priorities majorly wrong. CCP will be doing these people a favor by forcing them to quit the game. |
Jonak
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:35:00 -
[979]
Right now, only one of my PCs can run the Premium graphics. They other one just needs a new graphics card which I'm planning to upgrade anyway for other reasons. But my laptop may not be able to handle the 2.0 shaders. I'm not sure. It has a Mobile Intel 945GM Express chipset. I looked over the Intel site and there isn't a clear answer.
Even though I'm taking a break from Eve right now, I'd like to be able to play when I do decide to come back. If my laptop can't handle it then I can no longer play at work and I will need a 3rd PC at home to handle my one account. 
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KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2009.01.16 19:52:00 -
[980]
Edited by: KISOGOKU on 16/01/2009 19:57:55
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerator-950.2177.0.html it has Pixel Shader 2.0 and Vertex Shader 3.0 at intel wbsite
http://www.intel.com/products/chipsets/gma950/index.htm ,notebookcheks tells it has Shader Model 3.0
Originally by: Jonak
But my laptop may not be able to handle the 2.0 shaders. I'm not sure. It has a Mobile Intel 945GM Express chipset.
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ctx2007
Minmatar
Icarus Ascending
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:17:00 -
[981]
my laptop is nearly 4 years old and has the ati mobile 9600 chipset which has smartshader2 classic runs fine on it, but i doubt lite premium will 
EVE is a game and a damn good one too |
ceaon
Gallente
Porandor
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:35:00 -
[982]
Edited by: ceaon on 16/01/2009 20:36:29
worst arguments from player ever get real shader 2.0 is 5 year old
if CCP was mine i should sell the SOE/EA just to **** off cry-allot-whit-no-reason- *****es
. . .
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Solanio
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:55:00 -
[983]
Dear CCP,
what if someone started EVE one week ago, with a comp that exactly fullfills your current minimum system requirements for Classic, and this person subscribed right away for 12 months.
Will there be any reimbursements to this person for those months after you discontinue Classic? |
Fennicus
Amarr
Shoot To Thrill
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Posted - 2009.01.16 20:55:00 -
[984]
Originally by: Anathema Matou
- I fully support the requests to finally give us a "thin client", 2D or whatever as long as it can do all the jobs one does in station (chatting, skills, industry, market/trading). Doesn't need the fancy graphics at all maybe with the exception of the portrait renderer. Just do it. It will probably allow you to keep most of the customers currently "written off", and give a decent bonus even to the "omg i haz l33t hardwarez" people. It might even help getting the courier contract system finally off the ground, lol.
I like that idea, some kind of super-light client with no fancy effects or ship graphics, just access to the skill changing, S&I etc. interfaces... |
Rufus MacMaranth
Gallente
Shadow Front
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:05:00 -
[985]
Originally by: Irillide
I understand the argument from those who want to still be able to run a second account on an older computer, or those wanting to run eve on an ultra portable laptop. But those that are saying they will have to leave eve due their computer not supporting sm3 and they can't afford to upgrade their card, in my eyes also shouldn't be able to afford the monthly cost for eve. Either that or they have their real life priorities majorly wrong. CCP will be doing these people a favor by forcing them to quit the game.
You are a troll, sir. A stupid, ignorant, ridiculous troll.
Please go back to your basement and play CS3.
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Una D
Ex Coelis
The Bantam Menace
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:14:00 -
[986]
Edited by: Una D on 16/01/2009 21:16:28
I'm not sure I like this change.
While my main rig can easily cope with EVE my laptop is ancient (Pentium M 1,4GHz + ATI Mobility Radeon 9000). Upgrading the laptop due to eve is something I would rather not do.
While we are at it I doubt that most long term players stay with eve due to the oh so shiny graphics. Most of us don't even see the space due to overview and OMGHUGE amounts of chat channels.
Edit: This is really wrong time to force upgrades. I don't know about Iceland but over here the economy isn't in the best shape and I doubt that many people would like to be forced in to an upgrade). |
angulion
Gallente
Axxeon
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:18:00 -
[987]
Originally by: Polinus
Originally by: Helison
CCP Explorer (or any other Dev), could you please answer the question about what will happen with the Linux client? Or did I just miss the answer?
I would guess that you should wait on the results of MAC beta. Programming for a mac is very very close to programming for linux. If they make the engine work ok on mac OpenGl it will work ok for linux easily. Its just logical that they focus fist on MAc.
But When that is working OK should be easy to achieve a linux premium client.
While your answer about Mac and Linux being similar is true, there is deeper problems at least on the Linux side of things. Wine currently runs the Premium client and my laptop supports SM3, unfortunately premium client is a no-no for me since the whole screen gets crazy flickering, even when Eve is in windowed mode, due to ATI drivers being rather horrible (using latest catalyst 8.12). To say I'm a bit worried about the changes is a fact.
Personally I would love CCP to make a native OpenGL client, or at the very least ditch transgamings old thing which never worked for me, don't do premium, and instead have a dedicated developer working with the Wine community ensuring compatibility.
For main topic though, dropping SM1 is ok, dropping SM2 seems a bit premature even at end of 2009 imo. |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Insidious Existence
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:28:00 -
[988]
Edited by: Grarr Dexx on 16/01/2009 21:30:12
45 days of no Eve or forever no Eve? I'd have made my choice.
Quote:
Edit: This is really wrong time to force upgrades. I don't know about Iceland but over here the economy isn't in the best shape and I doubt that many people would like to be forced in to an upgrade).
Don't whine about the economy when you are paying for a luxury product such as Eve. Click the link above the quote and be enlightened. Eve needs to advance, and it's always time for change.
-----
Nexus stamps of approvalÖ count: 1
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Onnen Mentar
Murientor Tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:37:00 -
[989]
I'm sure someone pointed it out already, but I "love" the difference between the message contained in the dev blog and in the PR announcement.
Quote:
New Dev Blog: I Can Totally Run That On My Amiga
...
With EVE Online: Apocrypha, we want to phase out our Classic client for the new Premium Lite version, an improved, lower-end client that will make sure players with lower-end machines can enjoy the same beautiful visuals as others.
The latter sending out the message that CCP is improving support for older PCs, the former clearly indicating they want to raise system requirements and phase out "classic" asap and the light version soon after, because obviously maintaining two clients is a lot more problematic than maintaining one. Let alone proper Linux and Mac support also.
Why CCP want to move towards a single client is understandable, even though I hate the fact they intend to raise the requirements. Why the misinformation? I know PR is often just that, but I'm still hoping CCP wants to gain credibility rather than abandon it altogether.
(PS: Feel free to correct me if my interpretation of either message send out by CCP is wrong.) |
Mikalya
Amarr
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.16 21:39:00 -
[990]
Surprised no one has linked this.
For those of you that believe that high-tech sales are doing great and the industry isn't going to be affected by the economic downturns, I present this:
Bye Bye Circuit City |
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